TLF LIVE! Special Interview: Ray Gootz

The Lapsed Fan LIVE!
August 3, 2025
12:00PM

The Comedy Village
352 W 44th Street
New York, NY
10036

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Somebody dot TV new meddle add a strong style.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Saba Son, you're gonna ring in the bat water. You
going over the top like talking about Salon. Well it's
the laps fan Mann the one in the ring. Forget
about Osada with a real king of swing when the
bell goes in and the kick like men throwing in
the corner with its rash like sting.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Even Jerry King and take off the crowd nodded.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
In his head like his tean low Brown were just getting.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Low down, goat even higher, flipping you on your head.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
But you no cool, drive more knowledge and dragon spits
fire leave you more.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Shock than when their tree tire dropping more truth than
the con of sniper.

Speaker 4 (00:48):
Bless you with a Coca nut.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Roddy Piper checking JP.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
He like j y D drop the cupcakes and got
the brain boy means the best podcast Frost start to close,
clown if you all better fit this floss sick and
polls as play.

Speaker 4 (01:02):
Live is going to take the stage again. This time
we're invading Times Square. There goes the neighborhood boss.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
Oh you're damn right.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
Doing live steps from WWF New York and The co
Chairman Comedy Village August third, at noon, in no small
part due to our partner in crime. In the past,
when he's put the bat signal up, the co chairs
have responded and taken a live stage at Philadelphia or
Los Angeles or New York in.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
This case, all these fucking major major metropolis. This here,
that's all we do. We don't do small venues. We
only do the big cities.

Speaker 4 (01:35):
Right, yeah, Vegas? Vegas was too small?

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yeah, we don't have the residency. But Ray Goots is
back with us here. You know him, You love them
and Ray. First of all, how you doing? Long time
no talk here on the airwaves?

Speaker 5 (01:48):
Yeah, I know. How's it going, guys? We haven't done
this in over a year, which is good to be
back on the show.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
It's uh, it's it's it's crazy. Why do you keep
doing this to us? You keep making us suffer here?

Speaker 5 (02:00):
You know, I think if SummerSlam wasn't the first two
night extravaganza, I would have had this idea. But it's
a two night extravaganza, and I don't know if people
are going to travel for this because they're not doing
a good job promoting it. But hey, let's give it
a shot. You know.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yeah, I don't really know the degree to which kind
of post those early post COVID years like twenty twenty one,
the degree to which people travel to a summer slam.
I guess we're about to find out. But fortunately for
your co chairs, you know, we happen to have known
over the years that we've got a really strong base
in and around the area. For sure, we felt confident
going going forward and going hard. So raking it. What

(02:36):
can you tell them about what they're going to be
seeing and what they're going to be experiencing. This is
a venue you know quite well here Comedy Village in
Times Square.

Speaker 5 (02:45):
Yes, so this venue actually opened a year ago and
I helped the owner PJ, get it together. You know
Times Square. We used to have in Times Square Carolines,
which I was, oh yeah, which was famous venue. So
many people started there, Mike bur Bigley, a Bill Burr,
Paterrees O'Neill being cooked. A lot of people started there
and it went out of business sitting in the twenty

(03:07):
twenty two and at the time I thought, well, someone
big is gonna come in and take a club, and
nobody did. And my friend PJ was looking for a club,
and I said to him, you gotta do Midpound. No
one's doing Midpound. Everyone's all over the place. That's where
the tourists aren't build up a year ago. It's a
big success. He's got two rooms. You guys will be
in the upstairs room, and it's said, it's the great

(03:31):
thing about that club is you know now big names
are going to come for a while. I don't. After
he performed on Glengarry Glenn Ross, when Bill Berg got
off stage, he immediately went to this club and worked
out a special. So he was there every night for
at least a month.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
Or two Hallot halls. So so wow, by the time
we're done, he'll be the second most famous New England
or to work the club.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
That's right, you damn right?

Speaker 4 (03:54):
Yeah, well, yes, three fifty two West forty fourth Street.
For those keeping track, Comedy Village dot com to join
us thirty five bucks, to drink minimum food and drink right.
People can can make plans to satiate themselves in every
conceivable way.

Speaker 5 (04:10):
Yes, so yeah, So the club has food bar like
more like bar food, you know, but it has a
full menu and they have drinks and you know, you're
gonna want to get plastered. But the other great thing
about this venue is the ease of access to it.
And what I mean by that is, I.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
Mean they don't have to spend six weeks trying to
assuage people's fears about getting to the Comedy Chateau.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
We don't have to. We don't have to create carpools
and stuff to get up there.

Speaker 5 (04:40):
You know, I gotta tell you, you know, the Comedy
Store is such a more I've I've learned now in
the pastory is the Chateau is like the most reviled
club here in LA.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
But especially after we were done with it, exactly.

Speaker 5 (04:54):
Yeah, but I'm kind of glad we didn't get the
Comedy Store two years ago. Beca dude, I cannot find
parking in West Hollywood. I was supposed to go there
the other night. I was driving up and down, up
and down. I think like the show would have had
to start like three in the morning if we had
gotten the Comedy Store three years ago.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
Wow, I just have to say, well, can you give
me any tips? Boss? As a former Angelino?

Speaker 3 (05:18):
No, okay, so there you go.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
You are fucked. That is that's extreally clear. I do
have to say, though, Ray, when you talk about driving around,
I feel like a proud papa because close listeners will
know that, really, the only reason you even got your
license in the first place was that you could drive
to Philly to book the venue for the co chairs.

Speaker 5 (05:36):
Yes, yes, that was my first dig trip was to
go to Helium because the GM blew me off and
said maybe we can do it in August or something,
and nobody cares about WrestleMania. And then I went to
Punchline Philly and they believed in you. And let me
tell you, I don't know. You know, I'm a year
behind the podcast, so I don't know if you guys
have talked too much about Philly. But Philly was beyond

(05:56):
the home run. I mean we had one of the
best clubs. I don't want to say the best club
in Philly. It was the best best club in Philly.
It was packed to the rafters. You guys put on
a great show. I mean your show last year was
probably better than WrestleMania. I mean it always is, but
like that was a home run. That what you guys
pulled off, what we pulled off, and the fact that

(06:19):
Punchline Philly believed in us and they gave us so
much support. I thought that, I don't know what you
guys proud of that show. I was very proud of
that show.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
I've certainly speaking absolutely, I mean in in so many
different ways. I thought it was. It was such a
great turnout. It was nice. It was a good, uh
sophomore effort, I thought on on on all fronts. It was.
It was nice to not have to not be completely
freaked out, you know, the whole time, and you know,

(06:48):
hoping to God we could make it on time, uh
to the place, and uh, yeah it was. It was
a great crowd. And honestly, you know, I'm I'm grateful.
I'm grateful I got my voice back by the time
that it all panned out. You know. That's that's still
the horror show for me was just the idea of
waking up with that swollen uvula that morning and I

(07:09):
couldn't fucking speak.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
We k fab on that or do we clue you
in on that? I don't remember when we got to.

Speaker 5 (07:17):
Filled me in on that. You filled me in on that,
and I think it was because you guys were like
into freezing cold while Rock walked to the rain for
forty minutes right, it.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
Was yeah, I mean it was well yeah, I mean
who I don't really know what it was exactly, but
I mean, I'll definitely put the cold to part of it.
But it was just it was just so weird to
wake up like that. And I mean that was just
a miserable, honest to God, without a doubt, the most
miserable live experience ever had watching wrestling.

Speaker 4 (07:47):
Oh dude, it was so fuck it. And then and
then to think they were going to Mini the next year,
which of course they didn't, and of course it indoors
I get it, but that was just It's all people
could talk about in the needed aftermath was how cold
it was. So we're just swapping out. We just swapped
out the anxiety of having to run from so far
while Cody counted his tears to waking up in a

(08:11):
state of can we even do the show in Philly?
So who knows what awaits us this year in New York.
But we're proud to say that, you know, because it's
closer to home turf. We're not even concerning ourselves with
the biggest two night Summer Slam in history in terms
of live attendance and met life We've been to Met
Life plenty of times. Okay, we've got our run of
the place. But we will of course be able to

(08:31):
take the stage and recap Night one of Summer Slam
and a preview Night two as part of the as
part of the festivities. But yeah, Ray, that's great to
hear about last year. I'm just personally speaking, it was.
It felt like a total home run. It felt like
a real moment where you kind of realize what ten
years gets you, you know, right, yeah, feeling pain?

Speaker 5 (08:51):
Yeah, And you know that's why, like this year, we're
not going to have any any comedians on stage with
you guys. I just think it's better that you guys
just do your thing and maybe even members of the
Solar System who you know, you guys know well can
chime in and give their opinions and and and and
give you guys something to talk about rather than because

(09:12):
you know, most comedians were great, but every now and
then you got a comedian being like, oh what was
he talking like Vince or something?

Speaker 4 (09:20):
Oh, they have so much to learn?

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Do they do? They do?

Speaker 5 (09:23):
Yeah? So I think it's better like this is you
know what this is? Like? This is like remember like
Vince eventually went like Russell Badie, we don't need the celebrities.
We're the celebrities. That's this, that's this year. That's the
summer Slam Labs fan live show in New York City.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah listen, I don't listen. We're at the biggest party
of the summer right there at the Comedy Village.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
I don't think MTV should buy w w F. I
think w W should buy MTV. I think w should
by w W Well, we're not could be too far
from where they went public and put shares on the
public exchange, right where they converted that that that year
of year and years of goodwill and cash flow into
into into Wall Street, Cheddar, we'ren't going to be too
far from those tickers. That might be that might be

(10:06):
a fun little uh uh uh unt little john down
to Wall Street. And this is where Vince were a
black turtleneck and rang the bell.

Speaker 5 (10:14):
Oh my god, oh yeah, that's right there. That that is.
Remember they didn't they have like a ring. They had
like a ring, Oh my god, did right.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
I don't know if it was right on Wall Street,
but it wasn't far away. Yeah, they had some I.

Speaker 5 (10:28):
Mean you guys are gonna be very close to where
Diesel and Lawrence Taylor did the lie workout.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
That's another good call. Look at that.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
There's a lot of there's a lot of good New
York stuff there, you know.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
And I would be and doing the Coliseum Collection recently.
I'd be lying if I told you that I did
not write down the address that they used to give
you in the Colosseum videos, like a mile away to
save your letters and thoughts.

Speaker 5 (10:49):
I'm there. Yeah, that's that's true. That's very very true.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
I'm going have told us. But I'm sure it's a
total ship house whatever it is. But that's that's what
we're here for. That's what we're here to talk.

Speaker 5 (11:00):
Wasn't there a gym? I remember now you brought back
to Colseum Collection and again I'm still catching up with
everything with you guys. Wasn't there a gym in Times
Square where Rodny Piper worked out before Wrestlemingia one and
they filmed in there.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
Yeah, I think no, But I think there's a gym
in Midtown. Maybe Hulekgan and mister T worked out there,
But I think that gym is still there in midtown,
so you could, you know, still there and patribu to
the Holster.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
See if there's any people remember, See if anybody who
works there remembers. I do love doing that with with people,
and see if they have any recollection of these monumental
wrestling events that happened. And nobody does. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (11:36):
No, By the way, Gleason's gym is still there. That's
still in Brooklyn. Johnny Rods is still a part of
that place.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
That's amazing.

Speaker 5 (11:43):
Yeah, that's wonderful. As they were still training wrestlers. I
don't know if they you know, I don't know if
you remember this, if this ever came up in the podcast,
but Vince Russo trained with him for a little bit.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Oh goodness.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
Yeah there's someone we should drop in on. But he's
as far from the possible these days. He doesn't really
he doesn't really associate anymore with the area. Too many
enemies perhaps, I don't know, I don't know what it is.

Speaker 5 (12:07):
Too many enemies, but you know, he's never really you know,
I said this, he's not a New Yorker. He's a
guy from Long Island, like people from on Island and
even this cityot Eddie Kingston, who's from upstate New York.
He loved to go, I'm in New York. I no, no,
you live in the city of New York, all right,
but I watched you guys are New Yorkers, like I'm
so sick of everyone. And then the youth had excuse

(12:28):
me because all of Vincrusso's excuses why he didn't work
out with Cornett. You didn't I'm a New Yorker. No,
you got you're a fucking loser from Long Island.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
Hey, he's not wrong. He's not wrong in that. You know,
you gotta live in a burrow, all right, you gotta
live in a borrow, born and raised in a borough,
then then you're a fucking New Yorker exactly.

Speaker 5 (12:47):
He's just he's another small town pump pumpkin, just like
Jim Cornette looks all right, that's the same.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
You don't see Mick Foley going around saying he's a
New Yorker, all right, he's a long he's a Long
Island all right, a Long Island iced bitch.

Speaker 5 (13:04):
That's right. Yeah, dude, I got One of the reasons
I left New York was just so many people I
live in La Now updated case any LABS fan fans
were wondering, just so many people like moved to New
York and within a day they start calling themselves New Yorkers,
and they start acting like they're the experts of the city.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Really really a rough look, really rough.

Speaker 5 (13:25):
And I remember you guys are talking about that on
the nine to eleven episode and JP nailed it, Like
they come to New York and then they just make
that their whole identity, living in New York, and.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Then it's a miserable, nauseating it's nauseating.

Speaker 4 (13:37):
Yes, m it's very self congratulatory, you know, yes, you know,
it's like I would move to New York and I'm
in a running club and and I know a place
that has good espresso. It's like, you know, that's enough. Okay,
We've moved on as a society from having any cash angry. Okay,
do you know how to keep your sanity? That's the
only question. I'm glad you mentioned Ray the notion that

(14:00):
you know, just more of an intimate time, you know,
possible here with with the with the members of the
Solar System, because that is something that that that's kind
of been an identity crisis. You know, it's like we
do these shows and everyone's here to see just a
live version of us, just chopping it up. And it
always feels like we owe the people so much more
preparation than that. But I don't know. I think you're right.

(14:21):
I think people just want to be able to wrap
with us and hear top of mind when I hear
the podcast taking the stage that you know that they
do prepare some stuff, and we will prepare some stuff.
Don't make any mistake about that. We can't help ourselves.
But but you're a solar system. Remember you stepped up
out of nowhere and put this on our plate years ago.
What do they want? What do you think they want?

Speaker 5 (14:42):
I think I think the great thing about the LAPS
Fan Live is number one. I'm assuming you guys are
doing this. I don't want to speak for you, but
this this will not be of recording.

Speaker 4 (14:51):
Right, That's where we stand. That's where we stand at
the moment. Yes, it's people always need it so bad
and we always feel so bad, but that's kind of
where we have to listen.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
There is nobody above the law, that's right. Okay, that's
that's the bottom line.

Speaker 5 (15:06):
But I think the great thing about going to see
the laps Fan live is that you know. The great
thing when I you know, because I when I was
in New York and it's harder over here to do this,
But I would go for two three hour walks just
listening to you guys, right, and I feel like I'm
in a room with my friends bullshitting about wrestling. These
are conversations I would happen ninety eight ninety nine that
my friends got lives. And but what I'm saying is

(15:29):
like these conversations are very much like I feel like
I'm part of a conversation with you guys, even though
I'm not. You guys are like it's I'm a year
behind as well, so it's a year ago, you're another
part of the country. It is what it is. But
I think being there live and not having you know,
and I love these guys and I'm not pooping on them,
but not having a comedians step over your words, where
you guys can free flow and bring in the characters

(15:49):
and lab Vince and laps Hogan and playoff whatever's going
on that weekend, because I'm sure it's gonna be a
newsworthy weekend whether it's a good show or not. That's
up the need. It's gonna be a newsworthy weekend. I
think you I think you know it's gonna be really
fun to hear you guys in person freestyle bullshit. And
I think you know the great thing about you two

(16:11):
is I think of a fan. If you do a
Q and A or a fan calls out something, it
could take the show into a totally different direction. Yes,
you know, yep, And you know, I just think there's
when you guys are on, there's like nobody better.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
Do you remember JP when we were in Vegas for
Star Cast two, Yes, and there came a point in
the show where the lapsed Vince was let's say he
was being heard but not seen, okay, And we took
a mic out into the people and we asked them
to ask lapsed Vince questions.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
I do I remember this, but I don't remember. Go
tell me it, do it?

Speaker 4 (16:48):
I mean there were you know, I can't say I'm
gonna recall an exact specific moment. As much as the
general like people were like they loved it. And at
the same time, there were some people there who I
think half ascidly put their hand up and you're like
answering questions about like if if Sasha is getting the
correct push. What a moment to be in a situation

(17:12):
where they missed the lapsed part of the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Right and they're asking like legit questions and it's like, what,
I don't believe.

Speaker 4 (17:19):
Why aren't you pushing? I'm like, you know that's not vincent.

Speaker 5 (17:24):
I don't believe you correctly predicted Cody Rose would go.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
Back to that was show one before, but he made
several predictions on that one too, that that will come
to fruition eventually. That was the night after John Moxley
went to a W that was the Double or Nothing weekend,
and so he had a lot to say, especially about
Brett coming out with the a W championship, and then
his ass ended right back under that that tightening is

(17:50):
you better believe he's he's fee he's feeding again. He
roll his eyes at Triple H. But when they're in
Calgary and the phone rings, guess who's on Guess who's
on a plane?

Speaker 5 (17:58):
You know I you know, I wouldn't be I don't
know if he's coming up for the weekend. I would
not be at all surprised that he was at the
Goldberg Manches.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
Yeah, we'll be watching closely.

Speaker 5 (18:10):
Are you guys loving Jesse Venturn commentary as much as
I am?

Speaker 3 (18:12):
By the way, I I definitely. I I think I
think even when he's his most annoying, he is a
breath of fresh air on on on on commentary because
he just talks circles around these clowns who have no
idea what the fuck to do, and he's bringing up
it's like, you know, they're so they're so you know,

(18:34):
sucked into their into their stupid storytelling that they forget
that there's like real shit that that actually makes real
sense that he's calling out and they have no idea
what to do with that. They have no idea what
to do when a referee fucking makes a mistake, or
when you know, when someone when when a wrestler does
something bad to somebody else who just did something bad

(18:56):
or whatever, it's like, you know, they have he's got,
he's got no again and no matter how annoying, and
he can get annoying on commentary, no question, but just
to hear him like he's got such a keen eye
for catching a lot of stuff that I, you know,
I feel like people like Michael Cole and that fucking
idiot football player have have been trained to not notice,

(19:21):
you know, and it and it and it's it's it's
almost like, oh, yeah, this is what real people fucking
think when they fucking watch this ship.

Speaker 5 (19:30):
One of the greatest moments I think was the Drew
McIntyre walking I mean, I'm sorry, jamiean priest walking out
of the cage and the fact that Jesse just went
on how stupid he thought he was, and Pat mcavee
and Michael Cole did not know how to respond to him.
They it's almost sounded like robots malfunctioning.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Me.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
Yes, it was.

Speaker 5 (19:49):
It kind of exposed how I mean, we always we
always know it's how fake the product is. But the
scariest thing to me is a lot of young fans
were like, why is Jesse pulling out this on the storyline.
He's rooting the storyline, and it's like even the fans
don't know how to react when someone's a human being
for thirty seconds on ww television.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
That's such a true point. I mean, they because they
all think that somewhere along the line they'll be they'll
be brought in under the tent, you know, right, They
think one day WW will fuck them.

Speaker 5 (20:17):
You know, WW will have the on the pre show
like they did with Sam Roberts.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
I mean, not even that, even just you know, give
them a little boost on socials where you know, all
of a sudden they drop a comment defending the E
and then a bunch of people follow them or their
engagement stats go up, and then you got that and
forget it. They're just you'll never see them in.

Speaker 5 (20:38):
The video video.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
That's another huge one. You're damn right about that.

Speaker 5 (20:43):
Showing people react another way to control the fans, because
now everyone's making fake reactions to everything that is so true,
screaming when our truth comes out. I know that you've
seen the guy now for forty seven years.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
You know, we talk so much about how much shame
and pain is involved the being a lifelong wrestling fan
of our vintage and being steps from the guard, and
will really I think drive it home in a lot
of ways coming up August third, But we think back
to those days and one of the things you could
always say about wrestling announcers, the television announcers is that
as silly as the general public considered that the violence,
as foolish as they considered the pretend fights and the

(21:15):
pretend characters and all of that. The announcers were allowed
to comment on things in a way that was part
of the show, but somewhat ironically distant from the show,
so that you know, as much as someone would have
made fun of you for being a wrestling fan when
you were a kid in the nineties or the eighties
or the seventies, they wouldn't, I would wager make fun

(21:35):
of the announcers in the same way, because the announcers,
while part of the circus, were allowed, like a Gorilla
Monsoon was allowed to call something out that happened in
the ring that was a miss, that was unflattering, that
wasn't part of some you know, pre decided fabric of
how we weave our Disney style storytelling to a crescendo.
You know, these sort of like and all it is
is heuristics. All it is are these like these memorized

(21:58):
beats and patterns of things that have worked before that
they're trying to systematize. They're trying to make it seem
like because one angle got over once that that's like
a blueprint as opposed to just what was right at
the time for the wrestlers involved, and so you know,
you get you get four thousand attempts at Savage and
Ran Savage and Elizabeth as we just talked about in
the costume collection, yep, and just you know, oh yeah,
very rareer the performers, they're gonna be able to rise

(22:20):
to that, and even rarer other performers who have kind
of the backdrop of legitimate you know, tension and fear
that existed come to find out between Randy and Elizabeth
so that it really penetrated the camera in that way.
Rare is the case of a Jake Roberts who has
been through so much crazy shit in personal trauma that
he can actually channel real pain in front of the
camera instead of playing a character that's been through pain.

Speaker 5 (22:40):
Brother right, well, I mean, I mean, I think one
of the one of the biggest things that the biggest
story of this year, and I think Hull Hogan should
be very happy this has happened. Is the other failure
of the John Cena Heiltern and how much it makes
the Hull Coogan He'll turn better retrospect when you think
about the fact that Hull Coogan was the most successful
wrestler on the planet. No one can argue nineteen ninety

(23:02):
sixties the most successful elsort ever lived. He turned his
back on everything everything he did, He did everything different,
and he kind of forced Vincent Man. I mean, you
go to the ausoling, but because of the success of
ww Vince had to change his whole business strategy. And
John Cena is terrified, terrified to go against anything he's

(23:23):
ever done. He has, He's you can just see the
doubt in his face every time he cuts a promo. Yeah,
it has been one of the biggest failures I've ever
seen in wrestling, the John Cena hill turn. I can't
believe how bad it is every week. I'm shocked how
worse it it gets every week.

Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah, going into Summer Slam in the rematch with Cody,
he's been carefully threading this needle to such an absurd
degree that we're all just sitting here wonderingly, what is
what is this? Besides we're just waiting to see if
Seena has come up with six more singers this week,
and he'll get thirty times the promo time of anybody else,
and we'll go, oh, and that's that's it. That's what
we're watching. John Cena for after all these years. I

(24:00):
don't know. Boss Sina said not too long ago that
after he turn heel, he's here to ruin wrestling, and
I'm looking around, I think he's succeeding.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
I think, I mean, yeah, I mean, there's there's there's
no question about that. I I I, I mean, I
can't you know, I don't watch it. I don't watch
you a week to week. I don't know what the
fuck is going on. We tweak, you know. I completely
even forgot that it's supposed to be Cody and Sina
at SummerSlam, which I think is the biggest mistake they
could possibly do. I think it's so it's just such

(24:31):
a waste of everything. I mean, I I've been saying,
Ray I, I've been saying from from day one that
that that that Codence should be back, shouldn't have come
back till after Summer Slam, that he should have been
gone the whole summer and not come back until after
Summer Slam, and let Sina, you know, essentially run amuck.

(24:51):
Not that he would have run a muck, but it
would have been great se him run a muck and
then and then you know, Cody comes back and beatsn
end of the year sort of thing. But you know,
have him back. I mean, just don't see what the
fucking point is. It's like it just I mean the.

Speaker 5 (25:06):
First match was so was so one of the worst
rustling I mean, especially after last year. I mean, see
what you will. Roman and Cody had a pretty good match,
even the year before he went that horrible finish. They
had a good match, and then this main event was
just I mean it was something out of WCW ninety
nine scene. The scene. I mean, I was shocked how
bad it was. I'm like, well, it's gonna be not

(25:26):
that great, but it was. I don't I just see
other thing. I think people in not admitting scene that
just can't move anymore.

Speaker 4 (25:31):
I mean, yeah, that's a huge part of it.

Speaker 5 (25:33):
Yeah yeah, I mean he makes Kerry Funk in his
sixties look like a twenty year old right now, you know.
I mean it's crazy and the same thing like I'm
watching him and this is another guy who's benefiting. I
said to my friend, remember how much Rick Flair moved
so much better at his age than he's moving right now.
I Mean, it's just crazy how he's he's not delivering

(25:54):
on the promos, and he's certainly not delivering in the ring,
and I think it's almost like I would almost end
it at I would have to retire.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
That's when we put this match on the board. That's
what I thought they were going to do. Interesting, that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
Okay, I'm sure though I'm not sure, But where my
head's going is in the middle of the match, Sina
will somehow realize the error of his ways and not
reciprocate and not hit Cody in the head with the
belt and knock out somebody that you know is more
evil than he is, and then do a couple of
baby face programs to write off into the sunset. And
I don't think I was always the plan, but you
just have to damage is being done here, Like seem

(26:28):
Punk's not going to be the same. Yeah, Seampunk went
the same thing La Night went through when he lost
to Roman and Versaudi.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
Yeah, I mean, I I it is that bad, huh,
Like Seampunk is really suffering from well, I just I
just you know.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
The big thing ever since he came back is when
is he finally gonna get a title shot? And this
is how they did it. Yeah, when ninety percent of
the story is John Cena saying things that Phil Brooks
wouldn't want him to say, Like that's really how you
leverage the fact that like one of the fewtuips you
have left to play is seeing Punk finally wins the
big one.

Speaker 5 (27:01):
I don't know, and you know, you know, I keep
forgetting how long ago twenty eleven was, but it was
a long time ago, and that feud is a lot
of people's childhoods, who who have become laps or whatever,
you know, like their version of lapse, and to bring
it back, I think it meant a lot to a
lot of younger fans. And I know for a fact
that my friends just felt utterly miserable and betrayed about

(27:22):
how the fact that they had in Saudi Arabia and
the fact that it was that dad of a match
and he stopped watching again, and it's like, man, this
could have been something special and you blew it.

Speaker 4 (27:31):
You know, it's it's going to go down as a
very strange, complicating legacy thing for John Cena, I think.
And well, Boss, it's not like we didn't call.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
It, no, I mean, that's that's been since day won
They they have they have screwed the pooch on this
fucking on this heel turn. It's been there.

Speaker 4 (27:50):
There are two or three things that John Cena needed
to be willing to do in terms of character for
this to work, and if he wasn't willing to do them,
you don't do the heel turn. And it's factly been
vindicated in that regard. I mean, I'm not trying to
say that the business is down to zero, but Cody
is so cold now. As a result, Punk is colder
now anyone that's cross Sina. Randy's stayed kind of hot.
But Randy's always going to sort of be, you know,

(28:11):
he always gonna float right beneath that top level. While sorry,
why you can't hurt him, he also can't help him
all that much to get him over the top to
be somebody that, you know, really is the main attraction
on the product. He just never been that guy, and
I don't think he's ever going to be that guy.

Speaker 5 (28:26):
But go ahead, Ry, Yeah, no, I'll tell you. Also,
I did god effect about this is jay Us.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
Another great exent.

Speaker 5 (28:32):
I was gonna say, I went to Vegas at the
last second, my friend the ticket.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
Oh that's right, Yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
Did go and Jays came out a night one and
do you get I don't know how it came across
on TV. I'll be honest when I when I'm on TV,
it's it's torture watching this guy walk out. But live
in the building, it is a party and everyone was
going with nuts. And when he won the belt, and
I said to my friend, because the crowd is dead

(28:59):
for like two hours, I'm like, I go, like, they
should have made him wait to win the belt. This
guy is kind of like when you see it live,
You're like, I think this guy might be the guy.
I know, like a lot of older fans don't like it.
I don't like it, but he might be the guy.
And they've also kind of like downgraded him for the
scene of push and for the gun through Push, and
now for Goldberg, the Goldberg could actual retire to match
without the belt. You know, you've just kind of cooled

(29:20):
down a lot of people with this heel turn. And again,
it's not like you had a blueprint of how to
do it right and how to do it wrong. With
hold Hogan, you had the blueprint of how to do
it right at the start and not not to fuck
up like they did with at Star K ninety seven,
and they just I mean, if Hogan fucked this, he'll
turn up this fast, he'd be a face by January

(29:41):
ninety seven because he would have been like, this doesn't
work and I'm going back to face. It would to
rout his legacy. I mean, it's legacy is already ruined.
But you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
But I mean, you know, the the key thing with
Hogan though, and I mean, you know, it comes down
to they when Hogan turned heel, what also made it effective?
Like if he came back out, if he came out
the next you know, two weeks or whatever it was
after after Bash of the Beach and Hogan came out
in the red and yellow, it would have been a

(30:08):
complete disaster. It's a very simple thing. Sena needed to
change his entire look.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
And they at the box, I was saying, if he's
not willing to check that box, yeah, that's it's a
non starter.

Speaker 5 (30:20):
It's well rollins changes. Look, he's still doing this stupid
singing and he's the supposed to be the biggest heel
in the company as besides seeing them, you know.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
It's just you know, he he I mean, we we
said it that he should have come out completely different.
He should have come out shaved head, completely bald, full beard,
in a suit and just you know, the the the
antithesis of what we think John Cena. Because the funny

(30:52):
thing is is that, you know, the the he comes
out and he says, you know, I'm not going to
change because you know, because you guys want me to change,
so I'm going to stay the same. And it's like, well,
not exactly anymore, because the people who you're actually getting,
you know, who are excited about you, are people who
liked what the way you look like you you actually
need to change to get them to dislike you.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
Like you think. There's that much layers to the fans
reaction to you that they're thinking, Okay, this is the
exact same appearing John Cena that I cheered for twenty years,
But I'm going to boo him because he's dressing that
way because I want him to dress differently. No, these
people go to one show a year, and when John
Cena comes out, if he looks like the John Cena
they remember cheering, they're gonna cheer him to act like

(31:37):
they weren't cheering johnsena wildly for ten years before. This
is so stupid, the music, everything. I mean, Jack and
I said from the beginning, he after he turned heel,
he should have been off TV. He should have been
off TV until WrestleMania, not with single promo. And you
know that was obviously also before the whole you know,
when Rock was supposed to be a part of it,

(31:57):
and you know we were like rock should come out,
and I believe that rock should come out.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Every time that they that they advert.

Speaker 4 (32:04):
Somebody else that this John Cena hill turn fucked all up.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
Oh yeah, he he does. He ruined it completely. It's
really his fault when it comes down to it, because
you know, if John Seen, they advertised John Seen to
come in all these different places and then he know
shows and Rock comes in and is his is his mouthpiece,
and it would have been phenomenal to have him come
out and be his mouthpiece and say that John's too
busy to come out. John's too busy to make these appearances.

(32:27):
He had he had a last minute movie deal, like
do the whole Hollywood thing, and they and they just didn't.
They just He's just John Cena being a dick. And
that's not fun, you know, and that's not interesting.

Speaker 5 (32:39):
He's a lapsed fan wrestling podcast with Jack and Carno
and JP Soorro.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
He's the lapsed fan wrestling podcast.

Speaker 5 (32:55):
The other mistake that made is if they knew for
a fact like Rock's not coming back, Sina should have
if you're gonna have seen it come out immediately, have
seen it kind of right off the rock, be like,
you know, hey, I'm done with the Rock, you know
what I mean? Like, I don't know how you would
have had him to say it, but make it clear
the audience the Rock isn't coming out again, because I
think I think the other reason that hurt Russell MANI

(33:16):
is people are waiting for the Rock.

Speaker 4 (33:17):
Of course they were, yeah, because that was part of
what was magical. I mean, look, you said before Boss
on this show, you know I haven't watched week week
in weeks. Go back to our live call. Speaking of
live calls, go back to our live call of Elimination
Chamber when Seena turn heel. It's a top TLF moment
when we react to that, And as you're sitting there,
are you telling is there a chance that you're watching

(33:40):
week to week because they did something that monumental. Yes, yes, yes,
I mean there's not a fan of complain that you
would stop watching after that. I mean it was so
if to be completely honest, the next morning and I
never do this, and you know, we're hungry.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
I was hungry. I was hungry for more and I
were hungry again, yes, and I was, and I was
looking for all, you know, information I watched the morning
after Elimination Chamber. I sat watching the goddamn uh press
conference after because I wanted to. I wanted more information.
The first time I've wanted more in so long I

(34:16):
can't even say with the last time. I really wanted
that much more where I even sat through Paul and
his fucking press conference for God's sake, and like, and
that was it. Like I was really really excited. And
and then I got excited about the idea that he
better not show up on television, because that, to me,
was much more exciting. Hogan didn't show up on television
for a while, and I think that would have been

(34:37):
better if he just was gone, and it would have
created so much intrigue. In the first time we see
him is when he's coming down for his championship match
against Cody Rhodes ough been great.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
I stand with hol didn't started to coming out every week.
It started a weaken as that's Hogan in general. After
I turned to Betch to the Beach ninety six, you
didn't he showed him like two weeks later, weeks later
and he was gone for three weeks and he was
back because he's over you, you know. But now no
scenes has got merch to move. And you know how
how ironic you go from wanting more for the first

(35:08):
time in memory yep, to we're not even considering going
to Summer Slam as part of our August third live
show at Comedy Village in Times Square.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
And you know, the irony is that the merch would
have sold. It's like seeing if this is whether he's
wearing it or not. Nobody gives a shit. You can
tell him like you can. You can post all these
things on so many different more you know, places to
sell a T shirt then than just on him wearing
it on TV.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
He listen, he turned heel and he comes out every
week wearing the Farewell Tour short shirt for your city
in the colors of your local football or baseball teams.
That's that's what they went with and it's just a disaster.
It's a disaster in his fucking stations. Everyone would buy it.

(35:55):
It's like, you know, I think about it like this.
I remember when Rock was you know, back in my
two thousand and Rock was telling the T shirts that
finally the Rock has come back to whatever your city
is on the back of his shirt. He wasn't wearing
that fucking shirt on television. He wouldn't wear that, but
everyone was buying it. The same fucking thing, the same thing.

Speaker 5 (36:15):
You don't mean, block lesser at Suplex City shirts in
every arena, and I remember going to some shows people
were buying them. He didn't walk out with those shirts,
just walk out with That's only a few years ago,
and that's when the show was still garbage and they
had that figured out. Some reason, they forgot how to
do that.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
It's why people keep turning to us like a flower
to the sun, you know, because no matter how much
they think this thing's back on the rails, they'll eventually
do something that will remind you that the superstructure of
our modern situation will not allow wrestling to be as
good as it used to be, not as enthralling of
a viewing experience as it used to be, not as
anticipatory of a thing, but more of just like a

(36:55):
debate society Twitter game, you know, which you know keeps
fan interest and holds it. But not only people aren't
even people aren't even waiting for moments. They're trying to
make moments. They're trying to call everything epic. They're trying
to call every woman who works in the business iconic.
And they're trying to just decide before anyone decides anything,

(37:15):
we'll have any staying power that what we just saw
was amazing and phenomenal, and maybe I'll be this this
wrestler's favorite fan. It's a strange set of affairs. It's
why we're lapsed. It's why we're taking the stage at
high noon in August third at the Comedy Village three
poin fifty two West forty fourth Street. Your coach chairman
just gonna chop it up with you. Buy a ticket,
Let's chop it up. Let's come to terms with the

(37:36):
fact that we can't fully sever ourselves. You ended up
going to Mania Ray that's the lesson. Yes, tell me
why you And what does that say?

Speaker 5 (37:44):
Well, yeah, it says that like when the push came
to shove, I was just like, I gotta be there.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
That's right.

Speaker 5 (37:51):
I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what I realized.
I don't think WrestleMania is meant for TV anymore. I
think it's more like it's basically going to a festival.
Like the matches all sought. But we had a great
time because we were just there hanging out in the
town and stuff, like, you know, we went to the
Sinos later and stuff. But yeah, yeah, it's a disease.
It's a disease, and the disease continues Summer Slam.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
You yeah, you know, sometimes you got to go see
a doctor, you know, if you're dealing with a chronic disease.

Speaker 5 (38:20):
But I will say this, let me just say this
to the to the fans. If you are a fan,
if you are someone a lapse fan fan, and you
have a ticket the Summer Slim, you can't let it
go and you're like, oh am I going to be
able to get to the stadium in time? You are, Yes,
you're right by the New Jersey Railroad. That's that right
underneath Mass Square Garden. You're gonna get there in three seconds. Now,
how are you going to get back. I don't know.
Hopefully they resolve the problem, but a disaster, yeah, you

(38:44):
will be able to get there if you do want to.
And I you know, and I think if you are
going to Summer Slam, if you don't like blacks Fan,
you should go to this party, get drunk, enjoy the show,
then go to Summer Slam and complain about on the internet.
Because I'm scar.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
I'll tell you what. You'll enjoy SummerSlam better afterwards, that's
for sure.

Speaker 5 (39:02):
Yes, So it isn't it scary that this is like
the biggest risk. I think this is the biggest risk
they've ever taken with the Summer Slam brand name. And
we have no idea what the card is. It's a
less than a month away, and it almost feels either
just gonna have ass will be put together the card.

Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah, not only not only do we not know what
the card is, but we don't even have any matches
we feel like are being set up for SummerSlam.

Speaker 5 (39:25):
Yeah, we don't have like anything that we're excited about.
Like there's no like, well maybe seam Punk could fight
this guy or so, you know, it just feels like
they're just gonna do this to do it, and I
don't know I would have. I would have been punning
seeds for the show as like back in April.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
Yeah, and they would have too. But the problem is
we we we were in full reaction mode to everything
AW does, so we're we're not in control of our
booking anymore because we have to come up with all
these bullshit dates to counteract anything they put on the
schedule because you know, we're so much bigger than they are.
That's really been a bad luck this year. I don't
know if it's Nick Con, I'm sure it's some people
Triple Ah. This is a bad situation where they're trying

(40:03):
to like flood markets like wherever they go and just
like like nip at their heels, like, what are you
guys doing.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Ruining my life?

Speaker 4 (40:12):
Right?

Speaker 5 (40:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (40:12):
God, it forces them to book things on gates that
make no sense. There's no reason for Goldberg's retirement match
to be on fucking Saturday nights main event other than
the fact that they need something that's going to make
people watch that show instead of All In.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
And there's no reason to have fucking four fucking you know,
non premium live events on a fucking month for God's sake,
wor Basically.

Speaker 5 (40:36):
There's three pay per views this week in w W.
I mean, if you counts, I can't.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
I can't XP.

Speaker 5 (40:42):
And the thing about the crazy thing about is that
AW hasn't been particularly good this year, I think, so
for you to be going this nuts against them, it
almost takes people who don't watch AW be like, am
I missing something really good this year? Why are you
doing this? Like? I kind of think you kind of
just let Tony confole in his face Bike, You don't
need to do anything, You're right?

Speaker 4 (41:02):
Yeah, well are you afraid to let them have a night?

Speaker 3 (41:05):
To them? Else? Like? It makes you It makes you
really really think honestly, it makes you think, who's really
pulling the strings back there? I know, because this sounds
like a lot like somebody else who supposedly is not
in the company anymore.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
Who might just be like who might just take the
stage August third, who likes to be honest?

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Ship I I I picture the text that go but
that go on Okay, a lot of a lot of
one letter words going on to a lot of different
people back there, putting, you know, pitting people against each
other in in the w WE. From one one individual
who's getting his dick.

Speaker 5 (41:37):
Sucked the whole cm Punk John Cena build, and that
match felt like Vince book the whole thing. It didn't feel.

Speaker 4 (41:46):
Yeah, well wait, when Sena came out, well, pardon me,
when Punk came out dressed as thug life John Cena,
I was like, Nope, that's it. We've lost someone's lost
their grip. Someone has just capitulated to Vince somewhere somehow, Yep, yep, yep,
because this.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
Is stuff Fence would have made him do. How'd he
come back in twenty nineteen? This is all stuff Fence
would have made this guy do.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
He make him do is exactly right, make him do?
And that's where we're at. And yeah, but you know,
and if you've been following us, you would know that
that's where we could end up. But there's there was
a lot of denial along the way because for maybe
for eighteen months, Vince took his eye off the ball
so that he could not go to prison. And so
triple H could you know his his action to figure Federation.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
I was never going to go to prison. Never I
knew that I already paid off the police, I own
the courts. Listen, I'm in the White House.

Speaker 5 (42:36):
I mean the fact that is a podcast. Now, let's
just kind of feel like they're putting all the pieces
back together.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Let's not forget I am in the White House.

Speaker 4 (42:50):
Now, wrong, stop the one he's lying.

Speaker 5 (42:53):
No, I got it. I think that one of the
things we're going to find out years from now is
that he was giving Trump advice every step of the way,
every step of the way. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:05):
I mean it's been published and it hasn't been retracted
that you know, Vince was one of the few people
that Trump would take his call and like leave the
room in the middle of other meetings.

Speaker 5 (43:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
Very simple, very simple, folks. It's this American work. It
has been right since the beginning. And who's had their
finger on the pulse the whole time? Your fucking co
chairs and and and where do you need to be
to get under the hood and get get sort of
like a you know, a closed circle. Uh, come to
Jesus assessment of what the hell is going on? August third,
exactly August third, Comedy Village. You already know what it is.
It's a New York state of mind. I don't want

(43:37):
to let you go ray without asking you other element
of what they're doing now, and they're doing it again
SummerSlam weekend. I heard about it right around the time
that I feel like we decided to do a show
curiously enough, and last time it was much the same.
What did you hear about the roast of WrestleMania and
this idea that they should try to do what we

(43:57):
did in La.

Speaker 5 (43:59):
Can I tell you? I said to people, they got
this idea for a Musc and Laps fan. And some
people are like, no, because they don't understand that people
listen to you. Guys that shouldn't be that probably don't
admit they listened.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
To you, especially within Yes, Yes, And I was.

Speaker 5 (44:13):
Like, they could have been doing this for years. They
could have been doing something like this, and they never
thought of it until we did it. And let me
tell you something. You guys packed out that chateau. You
guys packed it out, and you proved that a post
WrestleMania event can work. Suddenly, now they're doing it with
Tony Hank Cliff. They're doing it again, by the way,
Saturday night in New Jersey, Tony, I listen did you

(44:38):
I sing the audio the roast? Did you listen to
the audio of the roast. I feel like that deserves
like a whole.

Speaker 4 (44:43):
To a good amount of it. That's that's coming, and
it's coming hard.

Speaker 5 (44:49):
The thing about roast with wrestlers, and the thing is
is that they think that they can take choking around,
but they can't. You got the Paul Haymond just is
livid and angry and he's yelling at Gabriel Glesa, who
by the way, Grega Glazers the guy sold out Dodger
State and all by himself. He's a massive star. And
Paul Haymen is screaming at him like he's a bus

(45:11):
boy and it's not funny, and it's it's very uncomfortable.
It actually made me.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
The insecurities come out big time when they're on the
stage with somebody and more interesting than they are big time.

Speaker 5 (45:21):
Yes, between Hayman's reaction to that roast and him not
really commenting when Sabu died and the way Sabu died,
I really want you guys, and I know JP's gonna
get god No to a deep dive on E. C W.
And I guarantee you there's something there that's gonna expose
Paul Hayman and send them to prison because I can't

(45:42):
stand this fucking guy after that fucking roast. He's a
fucking comment. He fooled all those guys. He basically, you know,
he was Vince's bitch the entire time. And I have
a theory now, and I don't know if you guys
ever have ever said this, but if you notice, CCW
came along and he got into a e c W
when Vince was on trot, and sometimes I think Vince
put him there. Maybe you guys think I'm crazy, Maybe

(46:05):
some ECW fix but he sold everyone this bullshit lifestyle
and this bullshit and he had some of these guys
mortgage their homes. Uh Tamulin sitch when the credit card
and it was all lies. It was all bullshit. And
the moment the con was no longer good, he ran
to raw and he's been sitting there ever since. We
gotta pretend this guy is a good promo. We gotta
pretend this guy gets anyone over. He gets nobody over.

(46:28):
Rock Leicester would have been over with her without him anyway. Sorry,
what about All Roman need to do is turn heel?
How did he was just stand there like a fat pig?

Speaker 4 (46:37):
What about Curtis?

Speaker 5 (46:39):
Yeah, we're all Curtis Axel, remember they put him with
Czarro and there was but he is such I uh.
And then and also when he yelled at somebody at
the Pack mcavee and the fact that Knight wanted Russell
and he ended with him, I just like.

Speaker 4 (46:53):
Fucking Deck at the Hall of Fame. I was like,
this guy is kind of losing it. Yeah, there's some
wall closing in somewhere in this guy's life.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
Listen. He believes his own hype and that's a problem.

Speaker 5 (47:06):
But I really do think that he spent You know,
so many guys, including Saboo, suffered and died because of
ECW and none of them knew that he was in
Vince's pate ok at the entire time. And to me,
it's like he and he's never really done anything to
make it up for these guys. I don't I don't know,

(47:27):
do you guys agree with me with this? I just
the longer time passes what he does.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
I think he thrived in an environment where all those
guys also thought. I mean, you know, with the exception
of the mid to lower card guys who would get
no other work in the business, and so they really
had to wear that thing on their on their sleeves
so they could get work. Saboo was just as much
of a manipulator as anybody else.

Speaker 5 (47:45):
You know.

Speaker 4 (47:45):
That's why that's why I think he and Paul butted
heads so firmly, was because Saboo thought he could out
manipulate Paul, you know, and yeah, and kind of play
him against others and and and and take bigger paydays
and have Paul come come crying back, which you played
pretty much did what you pretty much did. You know,
Paul had to do a lot of verbal gymnastics to
make it seem like it was sort of his good
graces in the ECW fan's decision to bring back Saboo

(48:07):
as opposed to him really really wanting seb I mean,
Sambo at one point made the remark, I remember hearing
he rate made the remark that, you know, Paul's kind
of got like a homo erotic thing for me. It
seems like because it's like this these ties that bind
that should have been snapped, and all the way through
to you know, the resurrection of ECW and WWE and Paul,
you know, counseling Sabo, as we talked about on the

(48:27):
tribute on how to get Fonsie in how to Get
the Best Payday, pushing him pretty strongly on sci Fi
when Paul had some semblance of the book over there.
So it wasn't like, you know that re relationship disintegrated
to the point of no return. But I just think that,
you know, it was a great environment for someone like
a Paul Hayman to operate in because he was he
was dealing with people who hadn't succeeded more than he had,

(48:49):
and so you know, he was able to he was
able to match them wit for wit and trying to
get more out of them than they were really being
fairly compensated to provide. Whereas when he's when with Charles
w c W, you know, it's it's it's scandals around,
you know, gimmicking up expenses on the road and having
a fight every six months with management and and all

(49:10):
that bullshit. So it's it's a he's a fascinating guy.
I mean that that's probably the journey right there. You know,
when when we lose.

Speaker 5 (49:16):
I do you think you guys said something with Paul.
But my whole thing with the roast, it felt very
it didn't you know, I think the modern w WE fan,
the modern like the nineteen year old, twenty year old
is year old day they don't really want like race
chokes against gingerhole. Also, it is kind of weird to
be shooting in general hole. The guy was fired, you know,

(49:38):
the guy's probably never gonna work again. I don't know,
And it kind of came across as weird. The kind
of came ross. But they're doing it again. I think
it a roast though, No, because these these wrestlers, like
did you hear Nia Jackson like basically like basically just
like shit on Charlotte as a human being.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
Wow, it wasn't It wasn't a roast at all. It
was just like, yeah, Caddy sort of like it's.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Just fucking mean, that's amazing. Oh, I got to listen
to that audio. That sounds great.

Speaker 5 (50:10):
It's I I think it's worthy of an episode of
The Labs Fan the whole roast, I really do. I
think it's I think it's worthy of a whole episode
because it really is like it kind of I don't know,
it kind of dispelsing the wrestlers a happy family and stuff.
But yeah, a lot of people that went didn't enjoy it.
But again they were they're trying to you know, they're
trying to take something that that we created. I really

(50:32):
do think that I will. I will put all my money.
They got the idea from you guys doing this at
the Comedy Chateau, and you know, hey, listen, great. I'm
sure they're gonna sell a lot of tickets for the next one,
but it's not labs Fan. And the thing about labs
Fan is you're not gonna We're not gonna have wrestlers
on because number one, they don't they don't they don't
know how to run with the joke.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
But you guys, they definitely don't know.

Speaker 5 (50:54):
Yeah, you guys are way funnier. It's gonna be a
way better show seeing you guys before SummerSlam that it
would be to go to this rows stuff and listen.
I love Graborg Glacier. I don't really know Tony Hincliff.
I love Gregory Lacy. He's a great comic and he
loves wrestling. I mean I used to talk with him
about Fandango. He made me this is a great story.
But he had his birthday show at Caroline and I
was the manager and I played the Fandangle theme in

(51:18):
the lounge and he paused, and he said, can you
put on that? This is twenty thirteen? Can you put
on the fandangle theme? And I put it on and
he fandangoed for five minutes on stage and a lot
of people and he said, this is a wrestling thing.
Dance with me, and he started making everyone dance with him.
Was a great moment, and he loves wrestling. You know.
I just think the way if he tries to joke

(51:40):
around with these wrestlers, they're just gonna get racist and
and just cool and mean. And they don't know how
to have fun or they know how to nail it
break their bodies, and.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
They don't know that's exactly right because to them, like
part of the reason they're successful is at some point alone,
the way they cut somebody down behind their back, right, Yes,
And that breeds a certain guardedness that just can't thrive
in an environment like a comedy stage. You just can't.

Speaker 5 (52:09):
Yeah, you know the thing about it is that I
think they probably think that they're a bigger deal than
someone like Gabriel Glacier down deep like oh I did.
But hey, he by himself sold out Dodger Stadium he
wasn't on a card with other wrestlers, he didn't have
to have an angle with Andre the Giant. He did
it all by himself. But I think sometimes that eats
away at these wrestlers that a comedian could do that.

Speaker 4 (52:29):
You know, that's fascinating.

Speaker 5 (52:31):
I can fill out a room just by myself talking
into a mic for two hours.

Speaker 4 (52:35):
So what do you say, bos, Should we stop in
on the Hingecliffe thing and stay up till two in
the morning the night before we do our live show
so we can have some commentary?

Speaker 3 (52:43):
I mean, fuck it? Why not?

Speaker 5 (52:47):
Oh he didn't say no?

Speaker 4 (52:48):
Ray?

Speaker 5 (52:49):
Oh wow, Hey maybe go in h listen.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
I'm gonna be hurting anyway, all right, it's going to
be a life while it's going to be a weekend
of just pain and suffering, like fucking just needles in
my body for the whole fucking week. Make it worse.

Speaker 5 (53:05):
Plus, my favorite mini episodes was when you guys went
to the Undertaker one Dead Man Show Undertaker JP. You
have because I listened to his podcast now because I'm
a fucking misogynist. I'm misogynous, different difference, and man, you

(53:25):
nailed him to a t. He is such a blow Hard.
He has no good stories. I get the sense he
didn't like Paul Bear. I get the sense he does
like anybody. Yeah, miserable blow Hard. That basically his whole
life is. You have to see how great he is even.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
You know, just I just you know, I just I.
Whenever whenever the I hear a reference to the to
a stupid fucking show, I I I always just picture
him in his hoodie and just walking around the stage
doing nothing. And I was like, that to me was
the epitome of what this is. This guy does not

(54:04):
know what he's doing. He's he's got nothing, there is
nothing in there, and it was just it was just awful,
which is why he's perfect for the right.

Speaker 5 (54:15):
Every story on this podcast is the if he tells
her about the past, the wrestler in the story looks
like an idiot, including Hulk Hogan, and he looks like
a genius, or he looks at mister Cool or the
fonnds and I'm like, I guarantee you it didn't go
down like that. And the other reason I just tells
you everything about this guy. I know he has a
new and now now Michelle mcpoole's his co host, he

(54:38):
had some guy in his own version. He never once
has ever started the show like this is my co host,
or said his name, or said hey, Kelin Kane's on
the show. The show just starts and there's this other
voice on and he never once tells you who this
guy is. And to me, that says to me, because
you don't consider this guy a human being. He's just

(54:59):
a means to an end like everyone else is.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
In your brother, I think, what a good way to
do that. We'll just start in talking.

Speaker 5 (55:03):
You know who is this guy? How do you know him?
Telling me? Fourteen fifteen episodes in I have no idea
what this guy came from.

Speaker 4 (55:12):
Well, I mean he had the podcasts that he had
the fucking ted talk thing on his face, and his
Hall of Fame speech that abortion, that was his Hall
of Fame speech, and he has you know, he said
clearly which was clearly meant to be the Hall of
Fame speech to end Hall of Fame speeches. That was
like supposed to be the greatest fucking Hall of Fame
speech of all time, and it just sucked. It was

(55:33):
like it was so bad that I can't even imagine
that I saw what I saw in retrospect, I can't
imagine that he thought he was gonna launch basically a
Tony Robbins gimmick, you know, for the second half of
his life. And now here he is in a warehouse somewhere,
shooting for ane, pretending to teach people how to bump,
and and and and having a podcast that no one

(55:54):
asked for. He's the ultimate guy that his second his
second act in life is doing a series of things
no one asked him to.

Speaker 5 (56:00):
Do exactly exactly because nobody nobody. Once you kind of
reveal that you don't because he said about I don't
even remember half of what happened, what.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
I was going, right, if I wasn't the best person.

Speaker 5 (56:15):
And you know, when you have to hear someone talk
for an hour a week, or you guy's case, seventeen
hours a week on average, you kind of get a
sense of who It's almost like you can't hide who
you are if you're gonna be if you're gonna talk
that long, you can't hide who you are. And you know,
Bruce Purchet's full of shit. But I kind of get
the sense, like, all right, this is kind of a
likable bullshitter, but guys an Undertaker and even mcfoley and

(56:37):
Matt Hardy and even for an Angle, but just become
you start to resent them. You just feel like, yeah, God,
you have nothing, You have nothing to offer the world.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
We need self deprecation, right, yeah, right, until they sit,
right until they come out and tell a story that's
very unflattering about themselves. Right, we're sitting there with our
hands in our pockets, right because you're telling us stories
about a bunch of people who aren't here to react, right,
instead of telling us stories that we know only you
uniquely can tell, because you're giving us an insight into

(57:06):
your psychology in the moment.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
That that is the key. If you can like it's
you're you can't really you can't have a podcast like that,
or really, I mean for most podcasts unless you're doing
unless you're doing a a some kind of a historical
like strictly historical podcast or whatever. You really cannot do
a podcast where you create yourself as as as this

(57:31):
star without being able to be self deprecating. You can't.
You can't. You can't do that and not make fun
of yourself. You have to be you have to talk
like make fun of yourself. Otherwise it's otherwise you're an
idiot and you look like a dick, and they come
from a business where if you, if you're like that,
you're giving your enemies the rope to hang you with, right,
I mean, it's like where where the really the the idea,

(57:52):
the the truth is, you're you're an essentially essentially hanging
yourself before anyone else can do it. If you if
you actually just fucking lay it in on yourself like you're,
you're doing it before anyone else can. And that's fine.

Speaker 4 (58:05):
And Jeff gets that, and Jeff gets that.

Speaker 5 (58:08):
Yeah, Well, the thing about it is is like I
kind of had no real opinion of Undertaker as a person.
I like the character, and he's had a lot of
great matches. Sure, you know Bad ninety seven, But now
I can't think he's a fucking loser. I like him
talking for two hours a week has Maybe this guy's
I would never want to hang out with.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
That's why we're lapsed, because yeah, how many times you
have to say this? If you grow up on souper
spider Man is in fucking Superman, you don't have to
come to terms with the fact that he's a fucking
dipshit when you become an adult, right, you don't have
to confront that we do as wrestling fans, and that
makes us uniquely.

Speaker 5 (58:43):
You know what's what's really crazy about modern wrestling though,
is that, like, you know, like the way wrestlers overshare
on Twitter and Instagram. Like I think this guy Swerve
the way Swerve Scott, but his post on Instagram or
Twitter wherever it is, he just comes across a complete loser.
And I'm like, you know what magic It's like you went,

(59:04):
imagine after WrestleMania is six, you go on the computer
and Ultra Warriors like complaining about data from there.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
It's you know, it's over. I can't follow this, I
can That's what I'm saying. That's why the system doesn't
allow wrestling to be as good as it used to be,
because there's too many ways to bring these guys down
to earth, right, and they do it to themselves. It
turns out they get on national television. You think, okay,
now we can put the phone down. Now, I don't
need all of this external you know, sort of re reinforcement.

(59:33):
I don't need it anymore because I've made it. No,
it's just begun. It's just begun. They've only begun to
send themselves into a self destructive psychosis around what these people,
you know, these randoms that they can't stop talking about
somehow that they're random, they don't mean anything, but every
other word out of their mouth has something to do
with it.

Speaker 5 (59:53):
They quote heat, I don't want to say this good day.
But they constantly go after this one podcaster who I
think is a loser, and they yell at him for
his opinions. And this guy. You cannot convince this guy
that he doesn't matter, because it's like, hey, you just
wrestled on live TV, and then you go to your
phone and to yell at me because I don't like
the show, I must matter. So you're making these people

(01:00:14):
think they matter. You know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
That's all that's left of what it means to be
a wrestling fan. It doesn't. You can't. You can't get
wrapped up in it being a real fight anymore. That
that's impossible. You can't. You can't have favorites anymore because
everyone has to be uh, you know, because you get
made fun of for having favorites. So what are we
doing here?

Speaker 5 (01:00:32):
Boss?

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
What are we doing here?

Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
Listen? You know what I'll tell you what we're doing.
I'll tell you what we're doing. Jack and GP. We're
the biggest party of the summer.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Let me tell you we're gonna I'll tell you what.
You know what, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you this.
This is what it is. Really. Let summer Slam be
the biggest party of the summer. Okay, that's fine, they
can have that. We're gonna be the biggest pain of
the summer.

Speaker 5 (01:00:53):
Yes. Perfect. By the way, I know you guys need
a verry funk giveaway to Uh, you want to do
a SID giveaway. I haven't listened to. I can't believe
you got that many hours out of SID. By the way,
don't tell me how you did it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
But you want to give away the show.

Speaker 5 (01:01:10):
But you guys should give away something that relates to
especially your blocks away from his big title win, the
biggest night of his life, survivor series.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Night could what it could be? You know, we could
just get a we get a bunch of I get
like a you know, a whole pack of Vienna's.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
We could give away the actual vienna is that the
Church sent us.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
That's just true, that's true. I mean, if we have them.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
Would we Oh my god, so many possibilities. Yeah, maybe
we'll bring some fun giveaway at him. So that I
got so much ship around true, we got so much ship,
oh my god.

Speaker 5 (01:01:51):
S with Terry Funk and now Sid. I mean, I
know you did Saboo, but Saboo wasn't as long as Sid.
So I don't know, something maybe like a rough shirt
in like the way Sid warks Summerson. Wow, he really
has a big history in New York City. Summerson in
ninety one.

Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
When he had the he always used to say, yeah,
I'm over that. You know when they'd go when NWA
when he was with Dan Spivey would go to Philly
or in the East Coast cities, they would go nuts
for Sid without him even being pushed as a baby face.

Speaker 5 (01:02:17):
Yeah yeah, yeah, man, I'm excited because like so I
just says I'm a year behind on every podcast I
listened to a lot, and you you ended Barry Alive
the last episode I heard. You're like, yeah, we're gonna
like really talk very briefly about Sid and then uh
the ninety seven raw or he wins the Belot and
I'm like, I know that. It's like four months of
Si wit. How did this balloon into low? Almost as

(01:02:40):
long as Terry fun But I'm excited because I do
love Sid. I do think he's a guy that people
shot on unnecessarily. He's not as bad as everyone says
he is, and he had something that really you can't teach.
I don't know if you guys said that, but he does.

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
Well, how does it balloon? That's the question you put
to the solar system? Right, Well, you're gonna get a
good front row seat on how it? Let it balloon?
High noon, August third, Comedy Village three fifty two West
forty fourth Street and Times Square. The CoA chairman take
the stage once again to lay the law down. We
are well, we are the regulators, we are the deciders,

(01:03:15):
and let us issue forth many final opinions.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
And if if we're ballooning, if we're ballooning, you keep
your balloon not tight.

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
Right, Thanks for being with us again and thanks for
the help. Thanks for putting up the bat signal.

Speaker 5 (01:03:28):
We're headed to Gotham, guys, and listen again. If you're
in the area, don't hesitate. It'll be easy to get to,
it'll be easy to get out. Go check out blabsphere.
You're not going to regret it. Thank you so much, guys,
always a pleasure working with you.

Speaker 4 (01:03:39):
TLF Live Bitch.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
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Speaker 5 (01:03:52):
We want