2. Through The Valley

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to the Last Cast, HBO Max's unofficial Last of
Us recap podcast. This show hosted each week by Me,
Jack and Andrew Oh. Hi there, we'll take an in
depth dive into season two's continuation of the Mega TV series.
Event will break down, assess, compare, contrast, and have a
little bit of fun as we go. So grab your

(00:45):
six string and your revolver so we can get on
with it. Hi, this immediately some disclaimers before we even
get into it.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
So that happens.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
That happened? Yeah, that no, Paul's We're not talking about
that just yet. But one disclaimer, going to be very emotional.
This is going to be a very high tension emotion
driven a lot of vitriol for certain people from me undoubtedly.

(01:20):
And part two of this disclaimer opening is that I
just need everyone to know how hard it was for
me to not rage against the machine in episode one,
the moment Abby was introduced. I feel like I did
a good job and I gave nothing away.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, I mean, listeners, you've probably gotten through our nineteen
hour first episode, so you know, kudos to you for
the marathon. Let us know we were from the outset
cursed with knowledge, of course obviously. Yeah, and I think
I would tend to agree that we played it pretty

(02:04):
close to the chests. Yes, but if you are just
a show watcher and not a game having played her,
please let us know how we did. If we did
a good job to obscure what we all experienced collectively together.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yes, but also about in regards to Abby he as
a character. Yes, I know. I know what you were
talking about, and I just need to double down on
that because nobody hates Abby the way that I hate Abby,
and the fact that I did not let that on.
I'm going to give myself a gold star.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
I called her psychotic at the end of the first section,
and that was the extent of it. But I felt
like that was justified. But I just want to be
very clear here that the gloves are off.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
The gloves are off from here until the end of
the last of Us on HBO, the series as a whole,
in several seasons from now. I'm not going to be
soft on this character whatsoever. Okay, Okay, I hate no
one more. I hate no one more that's interesting than
Abby Anderson, no one. I'm serious.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Wow. Spoilers for her last name I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Whatever kind of fucking care.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
It doesn't matter. Hold on a second. I'm curious now,
let me just do it quick.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Oh no, what are you curious about? Now?

Speaker 2 (03:28):
I just want to I'm just double checking. Just hold
on this, this is great audio. Okay, all right, I
found okay, perfect. I just pulled up a list of
The list is on BuzzFeed. It is the twenty one
of the most unlikable characters of all time. Sure, I'm
just gonna enlist these people really quickly, and I'll go
through the ones that you know and skip the ones
you don't, and you just say their name or Abby

(03:51):
as I spout them off, and yeah, yeah, which one
you hate more? So you can say Abby or blah,
whoever the person is.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
It's gonna be Abby.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Let's go, you think so?

Speaker 1 (04:01):
All right?

Speaker 2 (04:01):
These are pretty hateful people. All right, here we go.
Let's go Cal Hockley Titanic, Abby Delores Umbrage from Harry Potter,
Abby Scar from The Langing Abby, Oh wow, the Warden
Warden Norton from Shaw Shank Abby Wow. Okay. Here's a

(04:25):
couple other ones. Todd from Breaking Bed, Abby, Ja'afar from
Aladdin key Head style. Abby, He's terrible. But all right,
here it is. This is this is a no brainer. Okay,
come on the mayor from Jaws.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Abby here, I'll throw mine. I'll throw two in there,
Jeoffrey Barrathian and Ramsey Bolton Abbey and Abby.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Okay, I'm telling you there is no one else that
I cannot stand more than the fictional character of Abby.
All right, I can't. I don't even fucking like the
name anymore. I'm sorry. If anyone's listening, your name is Abby,
I would have to call you something else.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Abbatha. No, that's where we're going. I'll call you.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'll call you Utha. That's it, Tha, I'll call you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
What about be we get we get the abb that
we just go with B.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
I would just call you bebe b me.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
How about be me?

Speaker 1 (05:26):
No?

Speaker 2 (05:26):
No, no, but b B Okay, got it? Perfect? Yeah? Okay, good.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's so that's just your litmus for the rest of
this entire fucking series. Everyone, and you might be like,
oh my god, they're wasting so much time on hateful speech.
It is what it is, Okay. I've been living with
this hate for five years. Welcome to the club.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, and just as a very quick aside, I have
gone on the internet specifically seeking out, you know what,
the temperature of the last of us right where we
are after episode two, and there are a lot of people, yes,
who are in the same boat and are furious you're

(06:08):
not alone. You're not alone. A lot of people saying
stuff like we'll get to it. I, yeah, it's fine.
I'm just saying that you. I feel like you have
more people on your side than you maybe think you do.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
I agree. I think the show again at this point,
I would say most of the people cannot stand abby
and will that change? I don't know. I can't speak
for everyone. Some people are a lot more. I don't know.
Is forgiving the right word, I suppose, but I am not.

(06:44):
And yeah, I'm pretty simple that if you.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
I'm pretty siful someone I like and now now we
can't be friends.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, I don't care about your reasons. That's okay, that's
the beginning of our show. I just wanted to put
those disclaimers out there. Gonna do my best to keep
my shit together, and if I can't, then Andrew will
absolutely grab the helm and take over. He is prepared it.
He literally was like rubbing my shoulder and patting my
arm and consoling me on Sunday night because I cried

(07:15):
for about forty minutes. And I don't even like the
show as much as I love the game, so you
can imagine what the game did, like, you know. So yeah, yeah,
it's just devastating and we need to talk about it.
And this will be the hardest episode of this entire
series to get through, and we're gonna do it, and
we're gonna do it together, and it's gonna be all

(07:37):
right because it is, at the end of the day,
a fictional story. Yeah, and I am not a fictional
person and I can remember that what so yes, But
before we get into the show info and general reactions,
which I think we kind of glanced.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
We you know, we gotta get you. No, we'll do
it proper, but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
We are going to read the four comments on Spotify,
comments from four wonderful people who took the time, listened
to episode one, and left us some thoughts. So I'll
take the first two. You can take the back two.
And I just wanted to say, first and foremost one,

(08:21):
I love this feature and I can reply directly on there,
but I feel like I give everyone a heart on
the Spotify comments, but I show yes. If you don't
get a heart or anything, then I don't like your
comment and get the fuck out. But so so yes,
let's start with Pixel Smoker triple seven, so pixars Pixel

(08:43):
Smoker seven seven seven, simple to the point. Unlike us,
they said the deepest of dives. And I just love
that because you're not wrong. You are not wrong.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Okay, you know math, that's what we for, better or worse,
that's what we strive for here yep at the last
cast stage. Q. So there you go. You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, So thank you Pixel Smoker and Mari. Mari is
a wonderful, wonderful person we met through Wayfair and Strangers
who is now one of our genuine friends in real life.
And I just I'm going to say on the air
that I love you and I appreciate you just listening
to all of our shows and leaving comments and supporting us.

(09:32):
You're just a wonderful, wonderful human being and I'm so
thankful for you. And Mari's comment is as follows the
Mariana Trench of podcasts The Deepest of Dives with the
bestest of people. Jack and Andrew, you are both a treat,
hands down the best TILU podcasters and podcasts, And I

(09:56):
just that's that says so much because I know that
there are many Last of Us podcasts out there. Actually,
we were followed recently over on Twitter by the Last
of Us Nerds, which is another HBO review podcast, So
shout out to them, and thank you for following us.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Do a collab. Let's do a collab.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Giving us some flowers. Appreciate you. But I know, I
know that there's certainly like we are not the only option,
but people who spend time with us and take time
to let us know how we're doing. And even if
you don't, if you just listen and you download, I
mean that means just the world to us.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
So yeah, yeah, we see the numbers. Yes, we see you. Yes,
so yeah, this is good. We got two more here.
So this one is from Bell Russell Lynch. Belle Russell Lynch.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
I know that name.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
That's a fun that's fun. That's a fun name to say.
It is a fun name, a lot of twists, but
in good way.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
And we covered an email from Belle o run Wayfair
and Strangers Once upon a time, So.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Oh yes, that's where I remember it from yea and
there we go. Yep. So Belle Russell says, great episode.
Happy to have you guys back in my ears. One
tiny thing I noted was that you'd said Tommy and
Maria's son was unnamed, but the subtitles tell us his
name is Benji.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Oh, Benji Miller, ben Miller.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Hashtag subtitle gang. I know subtitles because they can't. They
don't have to mix shows anymore. Oh lord, where's the dialogue?
It's so far back. Also agree with Jack that I
hate when literally everything could be solved by communication and
no one communicates, Like in part one, why didn't Marlene
just wake Ellie up and discuss with her and Joel

(11:43):
that Ellie'd have to die to make a cure. Problem solved?
No firefly massacre. Love the deep dive discussion from y'all.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Belle, thank you so much. And one, thank you for
the validation too, thank you for letting us know that
the subtitles boiled Benji's name. I love that.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, and three, the miscommunication trope is just very tired writing,
in my opinion, and it makes me sad saying that
because this is just such an enormous production and to
have basic writing and tropes like that, it's very frustrating. Yeah,
that's that's Uh, that's a trope I do not care for.

(12:28):
And opening the season with that was frustrating, But we
talked about that plenty last week, so I don't need
to double down.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, it happens in productions big and small. Yep. It's
not just television shows. It's blockbuster movies. Yeah, movies that
are billions and billions of dollars.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
It's just silly. What are people doing in those writers'
rooms just being like, oh, yeah, this has never been
done before.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
Bro, not even that. It's just sometimes we have to
get to be We're at a and we have to
get to be that.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
See, that's a challenge. And as a writer, I fucking
love a challenge like that, because if somebody had that
on the table in front of me, if I had
a seat at the writer's table in this situation and
that was presented, I would be like, we need to
find a different route to get there, because this will
frustrate not only me, but people with any semblance of

(13:25):
critical thinking in their brain.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
It really depends. We don't know the details of the
production and schedules. Sometimes decisions have to be made, you know.
Sometimes it's like we had the time that we had
and now we have to begin filming, you know, I know,

(13:47):
I just whatever, so which really just a reality of
the business, is all. We have one more comment from
Ishola dot Freddy. Yes, I guess that's a username, and
Shola says, grateful for you guys and your analysis phenomenal work.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Thank you, Yes, thank you Ashola Freddy. We appreciate you.
And I want to comment real quick on the word phenomenal.
The word phenomenal is phenomenal. Who it's a great fucking word.
You don't hear it that much or that often.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
We've done that thing where we have awesome Yeah. It
is just like a common like phrase. Now, sure, like
how are your eggs? They're awesome?

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah? And it's like, does it actually inspire all? Do
your eggs inspire all?

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Probably? Sometimes I've had a I've had really good breakfast sandwiches.
Sure so sure sometimes.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
All right, we are loosing the plot real quick, and
it is too early in this show. I'm going to
wrap this up by just saying. Nathan m emailed us
in response to episode one, a very specific topic of
episode one. We were going to include it in this show, Nathan,
and I don't want you to think that we are

(15:09):
blowing by it or not wanting to cover it, or
this that or the other. It was just a little
too spoilery when it came to talking about Abby and
her past. So we are holding off temporarily and at
the end of the season if we have given have
been given the appropriate amount of information about the character,
we will one hundred percent dive back in.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, it was just a question of context. Yeah, you know,
correct us if we are wrong. But it seems like
you've played the game, yes very much. So, yeah, you
might have information that you are coloring the show with
based on what you may already know exactly. So that's
all we wanted to just err on the side of

(15:53):
caution there.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yep, perfect. So Andrew, can you give us a little
bit of the show info? Oh my lord, can you
give us a little bit of the show information and
background for this week?

Speaker 2 (16:06):
I sure ken. Production wise, our director is Mark my
lad And for those of you who don't know, Mark
Mylod is responsible for some of the largest episodes of
a Game of Thrones. He was weiss in Benioff's dude.
So and if you're if you watched this episode and thought, huh,

(16:30):
this seems familiar. Yeah, that's that might be why we.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Are going to talk about that familiarlity.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Oh yeah, and then we once again have this written
by Craig Craig Mason is the writer of this is
credited as the writer of this episode. Yes. The episode summary,
according to HBO, is a storm bruised in the mountains.
The people of Jackson Hole prepare for the worst amid
increased sightings of infected Meanwhile, Abby weighs her options.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Interesting, John travels and Sarce struggles.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
So there are more Game of Thrones references than you
could possibly know.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, yeah, we'll get there. So general reactions right off
the bat from the highest level imaginable.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, are you asking me?

Speaker 1 (17:22):
I'm deciding if I want you to go first, If
I want to sum this up with a few words,
I'm gonna go first. I'm gonna go first.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
You'll be done. You'd be like Abby, Abby, Abby fire.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yes, I hate Abby, but it's it's beyond that now. Yeah,
this episode, Okay, I said few words, and then and
then you can take over and I will expand on
everything that I'm saying right now, but my general reaction
to this episode watching it the first time and then
rewatching it to take all of the incredibly detailed notes,

(17:58):
it is a Game of Thrones episode in the Last
of Us universe, and that is it was exhilarating the
first time and it was extremely disappointing the second time.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Hmmm, interesting, yep? Is that it.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
I told you, I'm going to keep it high level.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Okay, I if you will allow me, I will go
into a little bit more detail if that's okay, not
too much, though still still high level. But follow me
on the follow me down the road a little bit here. Sure,
when you talk to somebody who has watched Game of
Thrones and apologies in advance for how many times we
may reference.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
This show, that's not on us though, that's on HBO.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
It's not. It's truly not. When you talk to people
about Game of Thrones and all time great episodes of
Game of Thrones, yeah, you will inevitably hear one come
back yep quite often, and that episode is called hard Home.
It's the one where we keep making that joke John

(18:58):
Travis Serci struggles. We have mentioned it maybe on this show,
and put certainly on our other podcast, Way for Strangers
quite a bit. Yeah, and that is because it does
the amazing thing of balancing small stakes character moments with
these incredible action set pieces. I'm not going to spoil

(19:22):
anything that happens other than that about Hard Home. If
you haven't seen it, it's definitely worth watching, at least
to that point in Game of Thrones, I think it's
like the fifth season.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Ever since that episode, Game of Thrones itself had tried
to recapture the magic that they had somehow created with
that episode, and I'd wager many other shows have used
that as a template as well, including this one and
taken individually. There are two stories that are happening in

(19:56):
this episode, and one is a very personal story. The
other is a very large and bombastic thing separately. I
like them a lot, But as we cut back and
forth between these things, I was like, oh man, the
pacing here is just like it's breaking my neck so much,

(20:20):
not in the good way where we have so much
over here, and then it cuts to this very small,
quiet thing and I liked it overall. Like I'm a fan,
I enjoy when they take the big swings, but I
could not help but notice that it was the pacing

(20:41):
was just all over the place in this episode.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
It really was.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
So that's my high level thing, and I set it
up with that Game of Thrones thing because that's an
example of it done perfectly, like hard Home is amazing.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Same with episodes like Blackwater in Game of.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Thrones, right there are yeah, there are certain episodes and
in we don't even have to narrow it. It just
doesn't have to be Game of Thrones. Like HBO has
a number of series where there is like a defining
episode of the series for sure. So Westworld had a
number of them, and Westworld was maybe the most. The

(21:23):
pacing of Westworld was such that I was like, I
don't know why I watched this show sometimes not to
get not to get too far off track. All that
is to say, to put a bow on it. I
enjoyed the episode, despite obviously some story things and these
weird pacing issues. Overall, I think there's two good episodes
of television in here, but they don't necessarily come together

(21:46):
as one cohesive successful hole.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
I would agree with that if these were two separate episodes,
it would have worked out so so much better, and
I feel like some of the curious things that were
to talk about shortly would make so much more sense
if they were placed at different points in one episode
that would deal with the attack on Jackson, and one

(22:09):
episode that would that would deal with Joel's murder. And
it just trying to smash them together in fifty seven minutes,
not even like an hour and a half. Fifty seven
fucking minutes was just way too big of a feat
and I think it lost a lot of what makes
The Last of Us so special. And this is not

(22:31):
me trying to once again bring the game into my
review here. I said to Andrew, I am going to
try everything I possibly can to stop mentioning even the
smallest details regarding the game versus the show. You know,
I know in episode one we talked about like Ellie's
combat mechanic of jumping on the clicker's back and then
stabbing it with her switchblade after distracting it with a bottle,

(22:54):
Like those are game mechanics. I'm not even doing that anymore.
I just want to talk about this show, and I think,
independently from the game, this just does not work as
well as I think that they anticipated or hoped that
it would, and the bombastic nature is on such a

(23:14):
scale that it's distracting. And I don't think. I know,
there's going to be people who are listening to me
and they're like, Jack, you know what, I'm sick of
this bitch. She's just looking for something to complain about.
I promise you that that is not the case. I
want to love the fuck out of this show. I
need to be very clear with everyone. I want to
love the fuck out of this show. But my job,

(23:37):
my literal job that I get paid for now as
a podcaster, is to break down and critically assess every
fucking moment in these episodes. And when you do that
and you pull the veil back, things are not as
pretty or as appealing as they often seem to be

(23:57):
on the surface. And that's all I'm asking for people
going into this episode and possibly the rest of the series.
Just that's where I'm coming from. I'm not trying to
be a fucking hater. I'm not trying to break someone's balls.
I'm not trying to just shit on what they're doing
because oh the game is better. I'm not trying to
do that. I'm taking what was given to us and

(24:22):
ripping it apart. And these are the conclusions I've come to.
Does that make sense? Does that soften the bomb? Maybe?

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah? I think so. No, I mean, hey, it's good. Yeah,
it's good to set the bar. Let me sing two
praises of the show, which I think we're excellent. The
vfx are incredible. What this horde actually looks like and
how they move. I was, that's fantastic. I was like,

(24:52):
this is a force to be reckoned with, and when
you combine it with the storm and all that stuff
like that, I thought that looked amazing. That's one. Do
you do you feel the same about that?

Speaker 1 (25:03):
The vfx? Yes, it looked like it looked amazing.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
It did right, it's they definitely had budget set aside
for that. The other thing that is a small thing
in the grand scheme, but I love when you can
do it correctly is establishing the geography so I always
know where I am like in relation to the other things,

(25:29):
And so often shows and movies fuck this up where
it's like where am I like? In like you know
this was you always knew exactly where you were and
the distance from here to there, like and how long
something like that might take to cover, so I love that.

(25:50):
I thought that was awesome too.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
I come, oh, man, I'm so glad that you brought
this up, because I'm currently this is a little side tangent,
I promise little. I'm reading a series by Hugh Howie,
who wrote the Silo series, which is Woolshift and Dust fantastic.
There's a show on Apple TV called Silo and it's wonderful.
I encourage everyone to watch it and then read the series.

(26:14):
It's fantastic. But Hugh Howie also wrote a duology named
The Sand Chronicles or something like that, and I'm on
book two right now. I'm about forty percent in. But
there has been one fatal fucking flaw between book one
and book two. While they are written so beautifully, while
I love these characters and this whole world that Hugh

(26:37):
has created, when I try to judge the distance between
town A to B, to see and so on and
so forth, when I try to visualize where I am
at in this story, it gets completely lost. And now
there is a map included in the beginning of each
of these books. But even when I've referenced that, I'm

(27:00):
like they're the scale doesn't work in the way that
he's writing it. So like, when I finished Book one,
I gave it a four star because I was like,
it was hard to navigate. And I don't mean navigate
the story, I mean navigate the literal navigation in the
fucking tale.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
So lost.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, I literally got lost. And the same exact thing
is happening in book two. And I read maybe like
ten or fifteen percent of it last night because I'm
reading on my kindle and I'm like, where the fuck
am I right now? I'm just in a fucking sand dune.
I guess, like, I just you know, am I between
Town A and Town B?

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Where?

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Or am I one hundred and fifty miles away from both?
I have no frame of reference whatsoever. So you bringing
up how imperative that is from a grounding and navigational
standpoint as a viewer is fantastic. I didn't realize how
big that was until it became an issue in the

(28:03):
stories that I'm reading.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, it's worth calling out. It's a thing that is
often overlooked from both the creative point of view and
as watchers as viewers, but so important, especially when the
stakes are as they are in this episode. Sure, for sure, Okay,

(28:24):
here we go. It's worth noting no cold open. We
get our credits, and we get right into the episode.
So we start with Abby and we are hearing sirens
ring out in the hospital. Abby is approaching a surgical
room where her father has been killed. We saw this

(28:45):
in season one. Another version of Abby, a calmer, maybe
colder even version, warns her to stay away, and she
carries on and pushes forward, regardless of the warning.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
And we're going to talk about this dream sequence real quick,
because it was very clearly a dream. I don't think
that there's any confusion or misunderstanding about that, but I
want to discuss with you the implications of one seeing
yourself in a dream and two not listening to yourself
or even recognizing that it is you that is that

(29:25):
paired with the warning that this other grounded version of
Abby gives to younger Abby when she was nineteen years
old approaching the room, presumably this she's giving herself a
warning to stay away. And I think that there's a
bigger message there than just oh, this was a nightmare.

(29:48):
And she's so preoccupied and has been for the last
five years with her father's death, that she's dreaming so deeply,
she's actually invented herself to converse with because that's the
only other person that would understand. But then in her
dream she refuses to recognize herself or listen to herself.

(30:09):
And that's a very interesting direction that they took this
in that I did not anticipate. So what do you
make of that? Of her ignoring herself after saying I
don't who are you?

Speaker 2 (30:22):
That's kind of an She's physically in the real world
so close to her goal. I don't know how long
it takes. I don't know where they traveled from. If
the show seemed to suggest that they were going to Seattle,
so if they traveled from Seattle to Jackson Hole on foot,
I don't know how the hell long that takes. Right,

(30:46):
But she's within reach of her goal now, which would
stir up all kinds of emotions and make you dream
stuff like this potentially, right, I don't know. I'm not
in her head space, but it seems like a thing
that she wants to forget or wants to let go of,
but she can't, and she's making herself relive it. Yeah,

(31:10):
I mean maybe, even as I say that, I'm not
one hundred percent believing it myself. But I loved the
I love the start of it, strong start.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
For the episode.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, and an interesting insight into the character, like the
young version doesn't even recognize her. Yeah, you know, I
don't know if you've ever heard somebody tell you that
in real life. I hope that you never have. Listen,
dear listener, but like, I don't even recognize you anymore,
you know, Like how powerful that is if someone says

(31:47):
it and they mean it. Yeah, So that's that's kind
of where That's kind of where I went with that,
Like I don't even know who you are? Who is
this person that is consumed and likewise to her, Like
obviously she recognizes the younger version of herself, but it
seems like she doesn't. She's throwing it. There's no care
or empathy in the voice she's saying, don't go in there,

(32:09):
you'll regret it.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
It's just cold.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
There's no please, there's no trust me, there's no there's
nothing there.

Speaker 4 (32:16):
Yeah, And so that's kind of that's kind of powerful
it is, and it's it's done so quickly, and I
really genuinely hope people who experience that.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Experience what we're talking about here, and not just throw
this throwaway, oh she had a nightmare, because it's so
much more than that. And I had hopes going into
this episode once that kicked off, because I think that
there is some sort of intrinsic link to the Last

(32:52):
of Us when it comes. And this is a little weird,
but we've talked about this on wayfarin with Dreams in particular,
because there are quite a few instances where characters go
to sleep and when they wake up their lives are
completely and irrevocably changed. So this was another instance that
felt similar to that. And then when you really pull

(33:16):
it apart, a more mature, current day version of Abby
telling her younger self, do not do this, and driven
by I mean, she's just driven by madness at this point.
That's the only reason why I think she can't move on.
I don't even know if it's because she has to
do this, like from a revenge or justification standpoint, it

(33:39):
almost feels like obsession feels too light of a word. Actually,
it almost feels like a compulsion.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Well, put yourself in that headspace, imagine going to bed.
And I don't know, we don't know. We only know
that this one specific instance, but like every time you
go to bed, you dream about the most traumatic thing
that has ever happened to you. If that's every night
of her life, even if it's only once a week,

(34:11):
and we don't know what is due to I know,
I'm just but I'm saying saying, I'm suggesting it's probably
happening now because of the proximity to her perceived goal. Right,
but you have to imagine that for the beginning, when
we saw her five years ago, that's probably a pretty
common thing that. Man, what does that do to a person?

(34:35):
It's insane. Yes, So right after this, Abby wakes up,
so boom, dream sequence established. We see her go into
the operating room, or towards it she wakes up. Jackson
can now be seen in the distance. And this is
where we're talking about the geography. We look at the
window of the room she wakes up in and we
see Jackson from it. So there we go. Owen had

(34:57):
been outside. He comes in from his shifts, his watch,
his patrol, whatever we want to call it. They attempt
to come up with a plan, but it's not looking good.
They say, you can't just waltz in there and get Joel.
It's a city they're shocked by how big Jackson is.
Owen breaks down that there's gates, guards, patrols, they have

(35:18):
military residents defending Jackson. Then what like, what do we do?
Abby then suggests tying someone up and scaring them into
sharing Joel's location. That seems pretty violent, maybe a little
bit reckless. Owen stalls Abby here with a potential plan
that he says he is quote unquote crystallizing or needs
to crystallize. She offers to take the next watch while

(35:41):
he kind of works out his direction his idea here.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
I'm going to talk about Owen for a second.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Okay, do you want to talk about how you called him? Fine?

Speaker 1 (35:52):
The actor? The actor is a good looking man. I
don't I don't know his name, and I should know
his name. But again, I don't care about anybody in
Abby and the WLF. But Owen is passive in this scene,
but he's not stupid, and he knows how high the

(36:15):
stakes are. And I feel like at this point he's
the only one with half a fucking brain in this
entire situation, and he's presenting alternative. He's presenting the idea
of an alternate situation or scenario just because whatever Abby
just throw out there was absolute nonsensical bullshit and she

(36:36):
should have known better. And at the same time, while
I say this, it might sound you might be like,
oh my god, Jack, you're giving Owen his flowers. I'm not.
He's a wet blanket. He's a literal fucking wet blanket.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
So we don't know, we don't know.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
No, I mean, this episode tells me everything I need
to know about all four of those people in Abby's clan.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
So okay, yeah, I think he is trying to be
the voice of reason. I disagree with you a little bit.
Like all four of them seemed to be ready to
just pack up and go.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Home because they're exhausted.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Well, no, just when they see the size and scope,
Like everybody was, like, I thought they were lights from tents,
but they have generators and electricity and running power cables
and stuff, and it shows you maybe at a contrast,
we haven't seen it, but what they might be accustomed
to is certainly not to this scale.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Well that's what I said. He's passive, but he's not stupid.
He knows how high the stakes are. We're saying the
same thing.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yeah, I think that all, but I'm going to go
ahead and take it a step further and say that
all four of them, Abby is the only one who
seems dead sat on pressing forward with her plan. I
think the rest of them were like, they're just like, well,
we tried, we came seven hundred miles on foot and
we tried, but we're done and she is not, clearly,

(38:02):
So it's I think we see mail manny Nora approach
and we get the truth out of Owen, and the
truth is there is no plan. He's just trying to
find a reason for them to go. Someone will get
killed or hurt if they try to move forward with this.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
So yeah, I mean he makes it very clear that
the only people who will be killed on this mission
will be them if they keep going at it the
way that Abby is trying to go at this.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, and not to jump to the end of the episode,
but we do realize later that these people have a code.
It's a loose code, but it is a code nonetheless,
and so that is why they've ruled out the capturing someone,
tying them up and trying to scare information out of them,

(38:56):
which I thought was pretty cool. That's just me. I
am sure that's not shared by everyone on this plantcast.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Not no, but.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
That's fine, very dexter esque in my estimation. You know,
that's all.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
There's a code, yes, and we will talk about the code.
But everyone seems to be, like you said, everyone seems
to be in agreement here, and there's a resignation amongst
the group, which we talked about that already in some
of your comments. But I want to just kind of
expand from there to say how fucking wild that would
be to spend five years of your life, maybe not

(39:33):
dedicated twenty four to seven, but certainly dedicated enough that
they were able to track Joel down to Jackson and
then travel the distance, presumably by foot. We don't know
if they had horses or some sort of like military
vehicle that got lost along the way. We don't know
any of that right now. But to hunt someone for
five years and then get so close to that person geographically,

(40:00):
then to know that you are beat and try to
do an about face, but one person prevents that from happening.
That is just We talked about leaders on last episode
and how Ellie is a poor leader, but Maria is
a shining gold star example of what a leader is.

(40:21):
And even Tommy to an extent. He showed that a
lot in this episode. But Abby is not not one
single person in this group understands what the fuck is
going on beyond we're loyal to her, so that's why
we're here, and that is the shittiest motivation in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
It actually makes me wonder who they lost five years ago.
It doesn't seem to me that they are all that
hell bent on getting Joel. In my estimation, it seems
like the four of them were fine to be like,
well that sucks, but a well, yeah, it's just so
weird that she's the one who's like, we gotta do this.

(41:02):
So maybe they didn't lose like a parent or a
brother or a sister. Maybe they were just maybe they
just lost partners or patrol or like you know, friends,
which is bad. But Abby having lost someone so dear
to her, this is she's the one who is the
driving force. It's just something to think about, Like, I

(41:24):
don't know if we'll ever know the answer to it.
It doesn't seem like it, but you know, worth noting.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yeah, So continuing from there, we are now back in Jackson,
specifically at Ellie's garage, and Ellie is woken up by
Jesse here, who asks her to fulfill her duty to
Jackson with her patrol. So it is time to go out,
and Ellie's half awake asked for a few minutes. But
before that happens, Jesse and Ellie go back and forth

(41:51):
discussing the night previous, which of course was New Year's Eve,
the dance, and everything that happened with a Joel fighting, this,
that and the other. This is literally the next day,
just for anybody who might not have put two and
two together, or maybe you were eating some popcorn and
didn't hear it. Whatever, But there's a moment, there's a
brief moment where Ellie experiences some panic over the kiss,

(42:14):
and then Jesse basically or as a result of Jesse
pivoting and being like, no, I wasn't talking about you
kissing Dina. I was talking about the fight with Joel.
But then he circles back to it, of course, and
he's like, wait, you kiss Dina. And this is just
very much Jesse being Jesse and sassing his friend and
getting her to stumble over her words and panic just

(42:37):
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
It was.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
It was a lovely interaction, and I genuinely like these
two people. But we learn here that the town is
on high alert as a result of the council's precautions,
and everyone that we see is a busybody today. We
see folks rolling barrels, moving things to and fro, driving,
you know, four wheelers full of AMMO and supplies in

(43:00):
this that pretty much everywhere. And Jesse mentions here how
the infected are using their own dead. So these dead
infected who are frozen solid now act as insulation. And
it was discovered that thirty or so infected broke through

(43:22):
this like bed of dead infected insulating them and revealed
their location by nearby cabins and so on and so forth,
and that concerns the town and put them on highlert,
as it should, But they don't really know the full
scope of how many infected that they inevitably, inevitably will
be up against later in this show, as we see,

(43:44):
and Ellie has a comment here where she says, a
thousand get the fuck out of here, And honestly, that's
very accurate to how I feel about the number of
infected in this episode. And we will get to that
during the attack on the wall. And yeah, I said
the wall, because that's pertin into our conversation in the
future too, and Game of Thrones fans should know exactly
what the fuck I'm talking about. But their banter here

(44:08):
is wonderful, and we hear that stalkers have now already
become a ghost story amongst the people, and I actually
really enjoy this. And we'll talk about for a second.
So this quote unquote new infected is revealed. But was
it shared directly with the people of Jackson from the
council or was it just by word of mouth? And

(44:29):
I'm going to ask that's part one of my question.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Sure, I think there's probably you know, some loose lips
sink ships, you know what I'm saying, there's probably some
gossip on the council. You got what is it, nine people,
seven people? I can't remember how many people we had
on the council, but you know, there's bound to be
somebody who's like, oh, let me tell you about this
thing I heard today, you know, just at the bar

(44:53):
or whatever, and it just gets out. So but that's fast,
it is fast. So we determined yesterday the you know, yes,
I'm saying yesterday in the show yesterday the council broke
at what eight o'clock something like that, So that's a
whole New Year's Eve to you know, have a couple drinks,

(45:15):
say some things, spread the word as it were.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Bring up some ghost stories.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
And it's a small town. So and if literally everybody
was at the dance, which it seemed like, you know
a fair amount of people were, I could see it
getting around.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
I could see it. I can see it getting around.
I would not call Jackson a small town at all.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Well, not small, I mean small relative to a city
that exists in our current life.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Yeah, but you can't. I don't think that's a fair comparison.
And even the WLF members basically said it's practically a
fucking city. I think that's more accurate.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
I think another thing that's probably worth noting is that
Kat and then the other two patrols that were out
there right Ellie was probably talking about what she saw
to them on the ride back, and so there's three
people that aren't on the council that can go around
and tell other patrol members and that's how it probably
got back to Jesse. Yes, so you know there's again

(46:15):
it's all it's all whisper down the lane tyce sharp,
but they I can't remember the exact word they use,
but like a super infected, like a smart super whatever
whatever word he used like to describe was very, very funny.
So I enjoyed that.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
So that was part one. Part two of this question
was from a leadership standpoint, whether Maria's point of view
or not, how do you think the residents feel finding
out about this indirectly? So, if it it presumed, it
very much is whisper down the lane, for sure. This

(46:50):
person told that person, and then that person told three people,
and then those three people told six, you know, and
so on and so forth. But I feel like if
I was in Maria's shoes, it's so much better to
just as a leader, to be upfront with your the
people in your charge, then to have these ghost stories

(47:10):
spread around and create another sense of fear, especially amidst
this new infected insulating themselves by a dead infected thing.
I think it's like this compound effect can be born,
and as we see later on in this episode, people
run and cowardice takes over. And I'm not saying stalkers

(47:32):
had anything to do with that, you know, it was
just the volume of people certainly scared some of those
men with flamethrowers. But it's just interesting how a news
or news like this could affect individual talentsfolk if given indirectly.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Yeah, and I think probably the people that need to
know will know, and the people that don't need to
know immediately at least will find out and be given protocol.
These people are nothing if not super duper organized, as
we've seen in this episode. Like everybody knows where they
need to go, everybody knows what a bell means, where

(48:13):
you should go, what you should do. And so if
it is verified that oh there is this other kind
of infected the day to day people that never leave Jackson,
they really don't even need to worry about that. It
seems to me.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Sure I can see it just like by proxy.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah, like those people probably. I mean, this is maybe
the first time some of these people have ever even
seen a bloater. If you're being really honest about it,
you know, like they'll be like what do I kind
of wish we had a cutaway shot to somebody being like,
what the fuck is that you know, because somebody could

(48:52):
have told you this is a bloater.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
I agree, and I disagree a little bit. And I'm
like rock looking back and forth if my audio sounds weird,
because while they may not have seen it, and I
would buy that, I would certainly buy that the younger
generation of Jackson residents have never visually seen a bloater

(49:16):
because why the fuck would they. They're being protected exactly.
It would be a huge disservice to the older generation
to not fucking tell people the truth of what's out there.
So yeah, while they might might not have seen it
or heard it, and to be truthful, they still haven't
seen or heard it.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
The younger generation, Yeah, they just kind of see the aftermath. Well,
they'll probably see the carcass maybe of you know.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
So the husk interesting. No, it's an interesting proposition.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Think about it this way, they think about it this way.
The Bloater up until now was probably the ghost story
for many of the people on the wall, the younger people.
And now we have this new ghost story of the
of the stalker, so kind of interesting.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
And then and yeah, it really begs the question, you know,
is it's brains versus braun? By that point, what are
you more fearful of?

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Yeah, this thing just kind of powers forward but is
very can take a lot of shots.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
A lot of flames. A lot of flame was thrown.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
At that bitch. So it was shot a bunch of times.
It looked like it was shot a bunch of times.
Tommy at least got a couple hits on that. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
So and and we'll get to that. So Ellie tries
to shift gears pretty abruptly here and says that she
wants to do her patrol with Joel versus Jesse. And
he quote takes offense to this because up until now,
Ellie's been avoiding Joel like the plague. So what the
hell has changed that you're going to ditch me or Joel.
It's basically Jesse's vibe in this moment, and things go

(50:50):
from sassy too serious as Ellie talks about Joel and
her relationship here and amidst Jesse's probing of what's going
on there. But there's a declaration that no matter how
bad it may look from the outside, it no matter
how complicated, And again, these are circumstances to which Jesse
knows absolutely nothing about. Ellie and Joel will always be

(51:13):
Ellie and Joel, and loyalty bleeds through Ellie in this
moment as she says all of this to Jesse, and
he still kind of pushes the envelope as any true
best friend would, but inevitably he does not get blood
from a stone, and Ellie just pushes on and pushes forward.

(51:33):
But she learns pretty quickly here once she tries to
go on patrol that Joel was already out because he
left this morning about an hour ago with Dina. But
Jesse reveals or shares here that Joel did want to
go on patrol with Ellie but suggested that they let
her sleep instead. And we're going to take another pause,

(51:54):
because this is one of those moments that can feel
like a throwaway moment, but the infinitesimal choices and the
paths that we take or are chosen for us may
seem so inconsequential in the moment, but can haunt us

(52:17):
for the literal rest of our lives. And this is
one of those things where, whether it comes up again
ever in this show or not, whether it's season two, three,
potentially four, whatever the fuck, this is one of those
things where as a person who has experienced loss, if

(52:37):
if I had experienced this kind of loss, that Ellie
goes through with this trauma, this physical and emotional, absolute shattering.
It would haunt me forever that the person I love
the most chose to let me sleep instead of me
having more time with them, and I could do nothing
about that.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
I'm never going to let our kids sleep in again,
is the moral of the story.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
It's such an innocent thing. It's such an innocent parent
thing to be, like, I know my kid, you know,
was out late last night, and you know, we got
into an argument. But things seem like they might have shifted.
So something might have happened between what we saw last
night and the morning with Ellie that remains to be seen.
But yeah, I can't tell you how many times you

(53:23):
and I have said that on weekends or when Bella's
on school vacation or holiday, or like spring break just
ended for her. Today was her first day back, and
every single day that she was off, which were so
few because Pennsylvania socks. But I remember just being like,
I'm not going to bother her, like just let her
sleep in, but.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Right and now, and luckily, luckily we did not run
into someone who was out for murderous blood Thursday revenge,
nor did we run into a horde of the hungry undead.
So but you never know next.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Time, I ever know, you just really ever know. You
never know. But so, after Ellie learns that Joel has
already left and went with Dina, she looks very defeated
here and Jesse says, well, you know, let's go. Let's
go to the restaurant. Maria wants to talk to you,
and I'm sure you're hungry, and her whole demeanor changes
and she's like, I'm not hungry, but Maria wants to

(54:17):
talk to her. They have to stop by the restaurant,
which they did not. I did not catch the name
in the show, but in the game it's called the
Tipsy Bison, and I'm that's the one fucking thing I'm
bringing over here today because that is the best name
and it deserves to be in the show.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
If it's not, yeah, well maybe we'll see a shot
of it in the aftermath and the cleanup. But we'll see.
We'll see what it looks like when the next episode
or the fourth episode, who knows. So we walk into
the Tipsy Bison. It's a pretty big establishment. Tommy is
giving directives to all the these people in attendance, about

(55:01):
procedures and protocols. It looks like maybe it's certainly all
the patrols, all the people who will be manning the wall,
maybe some small business owners, heads of family, that sort
of thing. Everyone knows. The drill flares, bells, stop and
follow the plan. The young people and elderly get to

(55:22):
a basement. Everyone else gets posted to the rooftops and
fully armed. So it's kind of a great strategy. If
you're in this group, you go down. If you're in
this group, you go up. That's it. That includes Benji,
Tommy and Mria's son, right, So just to note Tommy
Benji is going would be going down into the basement.

(55:43):
We learn not to be an idiot with your firearm.
Earl shot himself in the leg. Come on, earl, come on,
come on? Are you doing a breach? Is mentioned? So
and if that in the event of that, stay off
the main street. Tommy seems to be speaking from experience
here and we can only imagine and remember what that

(56:04):
might have prompted that comment from him. Ellie s Maria
if this is all a drill, the protocol and initiatives
and whatnot. Maria then marches hert to Seth Big at
Sandwich Seth as we call him. So he talks about
how he was drunk and he shouldn't have said what

(56:24):
he said, let alone thought such things. Sure, I thought
it was interesting. Ellie's response to that was, Yeah, of
course we all get drunk and say things we've never
thought before or felt before, you know, very much like
come on. So he apologizes and offers steak sandwiches as penance,
which I imagine is probably pretty rare to get a

(56:47):
steak sandwich to yourself. Yeah, for free, for free? Ad
that right. Ellie stairs dead panting him, doesn't grab the
doesn't grab the food at all. Maria hands the grub
to Jesse. Thanks Seth, and that's that. Seth offers her
safe tidings. Ellie throws a yep out there and turns

(57:08):
tail to leave.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Yeah. So, I mean this reaction was wildly deserved because listen,
we all know the prophecy that drunk words are sober thoughts,
So there is no excuse for your bigotry. Seth. Shut
the fuck up, get back in the kitchen and make
more sandwiches.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah. I if that thing is like, are you sorry
or are you sorry that you got caught, you know,
that's all. So that's just what we're It does seem
like passed down from Maria, like make this shit right.
So and everybody, you know, Ellie is there on Maria's

(57:45):
behest and Seth is apologizing because Maria is standing right there.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Because they both respect Maria. And that's that's the commonality.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
They as a leader, she is, she's the person will
come together for her.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Yes, that's it. That is all that. And I thought
Ellie played it quite well with her. Yep. I was
like that, that's all you get, bitch. So we are
now beyond the gates. Jesse and Ellie are through and
the weather out ahead of them looks very ominous and

(58:18):
it is a cold, cold day. As Jesse and Ellie
set off, I believe the temperature showed it was zero
degrees or like negative one or something.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Yeah, it was under Yeah it was at or under
zero is terrible fahrenheit.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
It was my kind of weather, honestly. But the view
switches here to absolute heaven on Earth and it shows
Jackson in the valley of the Tetons from this vantage
point that Abby has for her watch, with the Chile
in the background behind her and I understand. I hate

(58:56):
to say that, I understand why it's the billion dollar wilderness.
But when you see that, you and I even were
wound it. We were like, take it back. We need
to fucking see that again. That's so goddamn pretty, Like.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah, it's that meme from thirty Rock as Tina Fey.
I want to go there.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yes, I'd be homeless, but I'll figure it out. So anyway,
things switch around a little bit here and Abby is
seen again just kind of out on this ledge area
and she's shivering and uh, you know, just kind of

(59:34):
suffering on watch. And that's fine by my account, but
the shelat, like I said, it's in view from her
vantage point, and it appears as if she's she is
about to turn around and head back because it's so
damn cold, but a horse Winnies or NAIs in the distance,
and because they're in a valley, the sound carries to her.
So she spots two people on patrol down below, and

(59:57):
this ridiculous kakamamie plan that she mentioned back in the
chalet probably pops into her brain again and it steals
all of her reason. So instead of returning to this
group of people, she risks freezing her ass off, literally
freezing to death, because what if these two people could

(01:00:18):
inevitably lead her to Joel? What if Andrew? And that's
just what madness. It is absolute madness to me that
And I guess you could read the implications of that
are she's so far gone that she doesn't even care
about her own life at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
I don't think. I don't feel like that in my gut.
That doesn't feel right. I just think she is blinded
by compulsion and doesn't even read the impliment like the
consequences of her actions at any point throughout this journey
that we have seen. Yeah, so we cut back here
to Jackson as they are preparing for the onslaught and

(01:01:01):
to Sidebar. They seem to think that there is an active,
imminent attack on their doorstep at this moment in time,
but not a single lookout or gatewatch person has spotted
anything in the distance besides a bad storm approaching. And

(01:01:22):
it just feels I understand the preparation. Okay, I'm not
blaming them or saying that they're being too cautious or
that they shouldn't be pre cautious. I'm not saying that,
but the way that everyone's talking about everything, it's like
they knew that this was coming factually, and I felt

(01:01:43):
that that was a little omniscient. Maybe I didn't love it.
It felt like this is a guaranteed thing today, in
an hour, they're gonna be at the wall fucking get there.
And it's like there was no evidence of that beyond
the thirty infected that we're already taken care of out
by the Cabins recently. So where the fuck is everyone

(01:02:07):
getting this overwhelming evidence and fear from.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
I think that this would be the prep for thirty infected.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Oh wow, I mean that's an intense prep for thirty infected.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Yeah. I mean but if that, if that has been
the prep, and Jackson is the city it is today,
then it's appropriate. Sure, thirty infected is still way dangerous,
for sure. But when that guy, you know, in a
little bit, when he brings down the binoculars, I think

(01:02:46):
he was even surprised. I don't think that people are
thinking we're going to get a thousand infected on our doorstep.
I think that this is any time they see any
more than just throw the number out there, two dozen,
two dozen, infected in one spot, they get this ship
prepped because they're like, we just don't know. It certainly

(01:03:09):
seems like they were not. They were as prepared as
they were, this still wasn't enough. But I get it.
It doesn't make a lot of sense. We don't want
to We also don't want to catch them with their
pants down. From a storytelling point of view, sure if
they that guy looks and they're like they're five minutes out, Like,
are you going to get you know, eight hundred gallons

(01:03:32):
of gasoline to the top of the wall in five minutes?

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
I don't think so now, So it just so that's
all again, I say, dis X making a lot too.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
It's a conveniences.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
It's an absolute convenience so that the whole town doesn't
get eviscerated, because that's exactly what's a.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Convenience in an episode that has many convenienceses, So it
wouldn't be as glaring if there were like one fewer convenience.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
I agree, and I'm glad you said that. I'm very
glad you said that because they are prepping the wall
the most here, and that makes sense obviously because that
is the first and not last. But certainly one of
the most important lines of defense that Jackson has. And
this means something I said it earlier. Me saying the

(01:04:26):
wall means something. It's not a throwaway comment. I'm not
saying it to be a dick. Just leave it as
a be in your bonnet for right now. Let it
annoy you for a little bit, because we're going to
talk about that when shit really hits the fan. So
we see lots and lots of Ammo and Tommy looks
beyond the gate at the storm brewing as Maria radios,

(01:04:49):
and it's here that we discover the connections are extremely poor.
So Amy, who is the person working the radio room,
is ordered to recall all patrols bring everyone back because
the storm is too bad. We can't keep count or
we can't connect with everyone because of how bad everything is.
And then after this moment, we're back with Jesse and

(01:05:11):
Ellie out in the out in the wild, and they
receive the orders barely through their walkie talkie to return,
but they acknowledge that they're not going to make it,
make it. They're going to hold up in a spot
that Jesse knows, So the horses are safely tucked away
in a garage conveniently with a lot of hay, which
I love that because the horses are okay. And then

(01:05:32):
they're off to a seven eleven, which serves as their
temporary hideout. And so this seven eleven is full of weed.
And now we are fucking talking.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
It just looks like a regular s seven eleven to me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Oh yeah, seven eleven in Philly, I guess, so, yeah, yeah,
it just.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Looks like your regular Phillies seven.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
Eleven to me. So Jesse talks about Eugene being his
first patrol partner and how Eugene discovered it a year
earlier than even Jesse and Eugene had been partners, but
he kept it quiet because he didn't think Eugene did
not think that Maria would have supported a weed farm.

(01:06:15):
And as they're going back and forth talking about a
little bit of history, here Ellie finds Eugene's firefly pendant,
and we learned that he wasn't part of that faction
for too long. And his name is Eugene Linden zero
zero zero three one four. That is his tag number.

(01:06:36):
I couldn't think of the word. Sorry, it's a raw deal,
Jesse says. It's a raw deal what Joel had to do,
that he had to put Eugene down after he had
been a veteran of the Vietnam War and everything that
he had survived with the apocalypse, the outbreak, corus ps,
so on and so forth, the infected, and yet he

(01:06:56):
got this far just to be killed by Joel, somebody
he knew like had to take care of him in
that way, And it is just another tragic case of
the world that we live in with the last of us.
So we still don't know the circumstances surrounding Eugene's death,
but I think receiving these little tiny bits of backstory

(01:07:16):
here and there paint a wider picture of what was
necessary for the moments that we are experiencing them in.
And not only am I excited for Eugene's episode, but
I also think that it serves as this undertone throughout
episode one and two because of Gail and her relationship

(01:07:39):
with Eugene and now Jesse's relationship with Eugene and what
Joel had to do, Like this character has been talked
about quite a bit and we have not met him
at all yet. So whatever that episode is going to
turn out to be, I think it's going to be
pretty significant.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Yeah, you know, not to bury the lead. Ilie believe
that that is our next episode.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
I would say maybe the one after, given what happened
in this episode and the previews for next week that
you did not.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Want watched the previews.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Damn yeah, I don't think. I think, going back to
your talking about pacing, pacing isn't just an individual episode problem.
Sometimes it can be pacing for an entire season. And
while I'm not trying to say your idea is terrible,
I'm not saying that. I just think if they did

(01:08:34):
that after Joel had died, it would be way too
abrupt of a shift, okay, and it would be kind
of repetitive.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
But if we get a flashback, then we get to
see Jewel alive and it's like it never happened.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Yeah, but that's I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
That that tricky.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
It's trick trick a Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Yeah, I don't know. All right, that's fine. I was
wrong about the Eugene episode being next, but maybe the
next next We'll see, we'll see how it goes. So
let's get back to Abby. She makes her way, she's
making your way down what you would probably ski down,
to be quite honest. But she's on foot with just

(01:09:14):
a jacket on. It's nuts, and she's closer to her targets,
but she needs to get down this one final kind
of level to be with them, and boy, she takes
a spill. It's a slide and then a tumble and
all of this stuff and she lands in a heap

(01:09:35):
of conveniently not conveniently, but it was set up frozen dead, infected,
very very cinematic looking.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Yes, And she just a little side note, she loses
her weapons and her binocular is here.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Yeah, in the tumble, she had a rifle that she
lost and her binocular. So she's just rolling with the
basically completely unarmed and helpless. So very zombie ish from
here on out when we talk about the infected, really, very.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
Very much so. And that's one of my biggest disappointments
with this particular episode. But the other thing that I'm
just going to plant a nugget in everyone's brain right now,
because we're going to circle back to this at the
end of the episode when it's more fully realized. But
Abby is directly responsible for activating this hord and everything

(01:10:31):
that happens as a result of this horde. Every person killed,
every body maimed, every person that gets bit and then
has to be put down. That is because of what
she did. And I feel like the implications of that,
I keep saying implications, and I feel like, let's use

(01:10:52):
a last of us concept here. I feel like the
tendrils of that will reach far and wide.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Oh okay, just yeah, So put a note that down
in your copy books, everyone, and we'll swing back to it.
So she glances around in panic, but we very quickly
realize that these infected are dead, and it specifically cuts

(01:11:20):
to a clicker. I believe that's frozen and half kind
of emerged from the surface, which looked really really cool.
I will admit I was like, wow, what an image,
What an image. But the earth begins to move and
the snow kind of takes on like this almost quicksand
like texture, and an enormous horde begins to emerge from

(01:11:45):
the ground. It is substantially more than thirty infected. It
is a lot abby runs. She is headed towards a
building with razor wires surrounding it. We're assuming it's like
the mind, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
The copper mine that Joel and Dina were patrolling exactly.
So in that realm, she just makes the ladder. She
does one of these you know, run up the wall,
grab a ladder type of situation and fights off a
runner to get over it. As she continues to search

(01:12:22):
for an entrance, she is caught between kind of the
wall of this building and a fence and she is felled.
The whole fence comes down with infected on the other side,
and she has to kind of crawl. It's an incredibly
tense sequence, it is, and that one particular infected that
is trying so severely to get to her that his

(01:12:44):
hand goes through the fucking fence wire.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
I was like, that was gnarly.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Yeah, and it just goes to show that they have
no regard for their own Oh no, we knew this already,
but that's just one tiny thing that I think a
lot of us look at, like if you've forgotten like
just a tiny paper cut between your fingers, and you're like,
I'm out of service for three weeks. I can't do anything,
you know. So that's yeah, it was like oo. So

(01:13:18):
one eventually does break through the fence and is crawling
right behind her and jumps on her as she gets
up and rounds the corner, and a single shot from
a revolver saves Abby from getting bit and it is
Joel who has rescued her. They enter the warehouse and
he locks the door. Abby steals a moment to catch

(01:13:39):
your breath. This is when everything begins to go sideways
for Joel. We hear Dina somewhere below call Joel, Joel,
and Abby's eyes go wide at this as, oh, look
at who I ran into. It's home. But as we
have said, she is unarmed. Joel checks on Abby, no bites,

(01:14:03):
She's good. That said. The door is not going to hold,
so Joel drags her up and they run down to
the horses and Dina. Dina asks questions, where the fuck
did all these infected come from? Where the fuck did
you come from?

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
To Abby obviously yeah, and thus begins the great exposition
of the century with this episode from here on out.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
Okay, all right, let's get into it. Abby simply put replies,
she came from the mountains and it's time to go.
Dina says Joel's name again, and Abby probably cannot believe
her luck. Again. She talks of a lodge that is
up the mountains that Abby is talking about a lodge
up the mountains. And the curious thing is, how did

(01:14:51):
the people of Jackson not know or did they know
or like, was it checked was it not? That's unclear.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
I think right, no, they really did not. No, Joel
and Dina did not know that this chalet existed. And
this feels like such a plot hole to me, because
interesting it's it's literally right around the corner essentially, not
not the corner, but like right coming around the mountain.

(01:15:18):
I don't know, a five minute ride on the horses
to get from the copper mines to the chalet ten
at most, but that was amidst everything else going on,
so we don't really have an exact timeline here. But yeah,
Tod not know that this lodge existed. I would I
would believe that Dina wouldn't know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
But Joel, come on, maybe, I mean, it could have
just been a thing that they knew about, but they
were like, there, it's not worth the risk to go
that far for what might amount to very few supplies
or whatever. You know. I don't know. Yeah, it's just
kind of one of those it's it's certainly a it

(01:16:00):
would have been a billionaire's house. Like, oh god, considering
the view and the size and all that stuff, it
was like a billionaire's.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Home, rightly, easily.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Yeah. So Joel at this point asks if Abby's friends
are armed, which is smart, Yeah, yeah, yeah. She replies
that they are armed, and it's the only app it's
the only thing they have option wise. So it's time
to go. The hoard breaks through this door just as
the trio sets off, and they are back out into
the blizzard again like full force. It's zero almost zero visibility.

(01:16:35):
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
And this is where we're going to spend some time
talking about just how mind boggling, fucking stupid the entire
sequence of Joel and Abby happening upon one another. Really
truly is this has been the bane of my fucking
existence for five years because there were so many options,

(01:17:05):
I know, it didn't feel like there were options. And
even they we had Abby and Owen and the others
listing potential scenarios of how they could figure out where
Joel was in Jackson, how to get to him, what
would be a good strategy. Let's regroup, let me christalies.

(01:17:25):
But this whole oh my god, the person I've been
hunting for five years suddenly lands in my lap. Is
the most egregious error ever done in I think any
fucking series I've ever watched, And the fact that it

(01:17:46):
happened in my favorite series of all time of anything
hurts me more than I think anyone listening can truly understand,
because there were other concepts presented before this became the
final option that was used. And yes, I'm talking about
the game. Okay, so that's the second reference. But I, Andrew,

(01:18:10):
I cannot express to you while we all know, or
excuse me, while those who have played the games knew
inevitably what was going to happen to Joel. We knew
that Abby was going to kill him, we didn't know how.
We didn't know what the vehicle or the method or
the happenstance or what was going to be. And I

(01:18:32):
had hope, I had so much fucking hope that they
were going to go a different direction, and we got
so close, and this all comes down to a horse winned. Yeah,
and that is egregious.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Well that's the episode of conveniences. Yep, this is another.
It's the biggest one, first one, Yeah, the biggest one
in a series, in a series of maybe let's call
it three, maybe four, depending on how you well, well,

(01:19:12):
I'll address them and ask as we go. Sure, so
how about that, pfect we have two? I would say
we have two conveniences story conveniences as of right now. Yeah,
so that you know, And.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Maybe I am done because I just feel like I'm
going to keep circling the drain and saying repeating myself
and I don't want to do that. But it just
it shocked. It really truly genuinely shocks me that even
with all of our in Craig, we trust and I'm
not saying, like, Craig, you let me down personally, No,
I just can't believe it, and I and it makes

(01:19:47):
me rageful that I hate to say this because I
don't want to make people mad or feel alienated, but
it's so stupid. It is the stupidest writing between the
miscommunication trope and the Oh it was God's will, it

(01:20:08):
was destiny, it was fate, it was coincidence, it was kismet,
it was providence. Give me a fucking break. I hate it.
I literally hate this so much. And I can't believe they.
I can't believe they stuck with it. I really truly cannot.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
Yeah, I mean, there was only so much that was
that could Ever, I think we all knew how the
episode was going to end, sure, and I had hoped
that maybe we would be in a different path. Two
its happening. So I do feel like it's a coincidence.

(01:20:47):
And you may believe in coincidences, and if you do,
then here is one that I can give you. I'll
give you one coincidence and it's this one. The thing
that and we don't bring too much of the Internet
into the show, but the thing that the Internet is

(01:21:08):
the maddest about is that he saved the life of
his killer. Yep. So yeah, just something worth noting, right,
sure is. And not only was Abby's life saved by Joel,
but it was witnessed by someone who is close to Ellie.
So that's also just all these little seeds. Again, we

(01:21:31):
talk about what this show is doing that's very smart
and why people are in different places at any given time,
and I think all of this is kind of laid
out in a very specific way as a way to
propel us forward smartly. However, there is this cook there's

(01:21:52):
just this one coincidence that serves as the tipping point
for the conflict.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
So I want to actually jump to coincidence number two
because I'm not entirely sure if I know which one
it is. But is it the separation of Tommy and Joel?
It is, okay, and I.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
Think it maybe a third. So the first coincidence, what
did I say?

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Was?

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
What did I say? Was the first convenience?

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
The first convenience was the talent of Jackson knowing that
an imminent threat was going to come somehow.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
Sure, yeah, convenience. And then this right here coincidence convenience that, oh,
it's you, right, And then we have the brothers separated,
and I know that, I feel like I know the
exact narrative reason why that is. But we can talk
about that when we get closer to it. Sure, And

(01:22:47):
then maybe one more that we could talk to when
we get closer to it as well. So that's all
I mean. I agree with you that this is like,
it's very okay.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
It's very okay.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
No, no, no, it's very the inflection matters. It's very okay.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
Yeah, that of this entire space, this entire city, everyone
on patrol, these five people, she wakes up. It's her turn. There,
they are there, she is, this happens, It's like, come on,
that's all.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
Yeah. I mean, obviously, I very much agree with you.
I just think that any other option would have been better,
but it wouldn't have It wouldn't have given the same result.

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
Probably not.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
That's what they wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
We want to get this story be established. Yeah, and
what it's almost like, what's the most expedient way to
make that happen. That's the way we're going to take,
because you have to imagine that whatever they want to
tell as a result of this inciting incident is the story.

(01:24:10):
This is the setup, and everything that comes after is
hopefully our payoff. Hopefully that's what we hope.

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
Yeah, but I just I am. I am of a
mind that if the narrative foundation is weak or built
on sand like this is, the rest of it is
going to succumb. And that's what makes me sad.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
We'll have to see, We'll have to see, we will
have to see.

Speaker 1 (01:24:35):
But from there we are now we are back with
Tommy and specifically Tommy and Amy at the radio shack.
So the range obviously has been compromised by the storm,
and she's heard from everyone but Joel and Dina, and
this triggers panic in Tommy almost immediately and for the

(01:24:55):
remainder of the episode, so he orders her to try
to get in touch with Coppermine, which is the radio
call sign for Joel Indina today in this particular instance,
and he continues to kind of spiral, and his fright
and fear amps up here, and he gets on the
actual horn at this point and starts like, you know,

(01:25:17):
yelling for his brother to return or just call back
in some capacity. He gets nothing, so he tells Amy
to keep trying every ten seconds until he hears something,
because he has other places that he is needed. They
are in a dire situation right now or soon will be,
so he leaves and heads back out continues to prep

(01:25:41):
the town for this potential dooms Day, which definitely becomes doomsday,
and once again I ask, how did they know? But
from here we jump to a different scene and we
are now with Jesse and Ellie at the weed Den.
We're back in seven eleven, and this is hilarious. I
love this moment. Ellie finds a gas mask bong and

(01:26:04):
proceeds to take it. I'm taking this, Yeah, She's like,
I'm taking this and I'm loading my backpack up with
all kinds of weed to get going, and Jesse kind
of gives a little bit of a lame protest here,
but Ellie throws him a compliment sandwich in the way
of listen, we all know that you're going to be
in charge of Jackson one day, but you know what

(01:26:26):
today is not that day, so you have no fucking
rule over me, pal and basically, hush your butt, nark
And that's all well and good. But eventually Jesse's radio
sounds and we learn, as with everyone else, the connection
is weak, but Amy is able to break through and
sends an update that Dina and Joel have not checked

(01:26:49):
in yet, and just like Tommy, this causes an instantaneous
panic from Ellie and we know that it's time to
get back outside once the canction is fully lost with Amy,
so they are backpacks on real fucking quick, back into
go mode. They make a run for it, back back

(01:27:09):
down to the snow and back to their horses.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
So we cut back to Jackson preparing, and even through
all of this preparation for battle, Jackson must still work
on their maintenance and such, you know, And thus we
see another Clay pipeline crack open, but instead of the
worker just like in episode one, just cracking it and

(01:27:33):
being like, man, thing's full of weeds and whatnot. So
he takes a pickaxe to it, and we reveal living
tendrils beneath the dead roots and plant life.

Speaker 1 (01:27:48):
And detritus, which I learned tonight Andrew doesn't like that
word because he's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
I don't care for that word. I don't like the
mouth feel anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
So this I liked this moment because it's a perfect
mirror on a smaller scale of what the infected beyond
the wall are doing. So the infected beyond the wall
that are holding up or insulating themselves beneath the dead
infected above them is the exact same thing as what

(01:28:21):
these tendrils are doing below the dead roots and such. Yeah,
and that, yeah, I mean that is so that's wonderful.
Don't get me wrong. That's a wonderful mirror. But at
the same time, this scene is so fucking out of place.
And I had a really long conversation with Erica and

(01:28:44):
my cousin about this, because she really usually loves everything
about every episode about the Last of Us, but this
was also kind of a talking point for her. Where
in the midst of all of these intense preparations, we're
going to stop do pipe maintenance.

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
I think it's business as usual for most people.

Speaker 1 (01:29:07):
I do not get that whatsoever. People were moving vehicles around,
there was transport of AMMO, weapons, barrels, people, everything was
in prep And even if, okay, even if I wanted
to buy that business as usual for let's say a
third of Jackson's population, because somebody's got to keep the

(01:29:30):
lights on, let's say it's business as usual for them,
why would they not place this scene earlier in the story.
This felt so it took me out of it, honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
Well, I mean, there is the reason. There is the reason,
you know, and then there is visually it has to
fall here. The reason that the Horde comes to Jackson
is because of this exact action that happens right here.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
Oh I know, so I understand. But even knowing that
because of the my celium hive mind shit that we're
going to talk about shortly, which I still don't like.
I didn't like it in season one and I still
don't like it now. But even knowing that, this still
felt like either it should have been immediately afterwards or

(01:30:32):
immediately before, but it was neither.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
It could have been and again I'm not a script
writer or anything like that, so you know, it could
have also been one of those in well, I don't
know how much happenstance we want in an episode that
has a lot of happenstance, but we already had pipes
that were open and exposed, so it could have been.

Speaker 1 (01:30:58):
In the reminder, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
It could have been just in this chaos and confusion
of people moving cars and AMMO and barrels that a
barrel rolls over these tendrils and exposes them, or a
wheelbarrow you know, like goes, you know, and causes the disruption.
It didn't have to be a guy with a pickaxe specific.

(01:31:20):
I mean again, we you know, we saw the large
meeting at the Tipsy Bison, so Seth was in there cooking, right,
there were still chefs working. It seemed like again people
were going you know, Jesse and Ellie were going on patrol,
Joel and Dina were going on patrol like it's still

(01:31:41):
kind of business as usual. I know that they were
on basically high alert, but what your own high alert
doesn't necessarily mean that, like the production, like we can't
stop cooking, we can't stop tending to the crops. They
have established that there's a housing crisis, so you know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:57):
I mean, I think that's why I felt out of place,
because the beginning of the episode felt calmer because it
was earlier on in the day, the storm hadn't ramped
up yet, there was not this bubble of tension at
every fucking moment. And I'm excluding Abby from that right

(01:32:18):
now too, which I know feels fucking impossible for me,
but like this was That's why, I mean, it should
have been earlier or immediately with the follow up of
the Horde gets redirected to Jackson, which again we will
talk about in a few minutes. But having it at
that moment amidst Tommy's panic and then what's going on

(01:32:41):
with Jesse and Ellie beyond the Wall, and then what's
going on with Joel, Abby and Dina beyond the Wall,
it just felt like such a fucking like you just
sucked the air out of the fucking room and oh yeah,
now we're working on these goddamn roots again. Like and
Erica gave a great example kind of similar to what
you did. She's like, all this scene had to be

(01:33:02):
was someone walking along and their foot accidentally like breaking
the pipe, and then they just continue to walk along
with a barrel of fucking fuel or something, and the
camera pans down and shows these tendrils alive, and I'm like,
that's all it had to be.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
There is again for narrative and dramatic tension. You know,
you want to have an actor maybe acknowledge, Oh god,
what's I done? You know, it's not that the guy
has a line or anything. It's just more of a reaction. Yeah,
and this, at a higher level than what we're even

(01:33:36):
talking about, really just speaks to the pacing of the show.
We are meant to believe that all of these things
are happening in tandem, but because we are jumping to
wildly different tones. Yeah, that's what is That's what is
potentially taking you out. Like that guy. You tell me
that guy has all has been working on the pipes

(01:33:59):
all day. I believe you. Yeah, but it's hard to
square that circle when we see literally a thousand infected
chasing three people on horseback, you know what I'm saying.
So that's all, that's that's I think that speaks to
the larger pacing problem.

Speaker 1 (01:34:20):
Yeah, I agree. I think that's a very good way
to sum it up. But I just had to, you know,
I have to go on my spiel.

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's we cut back to Ellie
and Jesse in the mountains for a moment, and they
decide to they agree to split up to go in
search of Joel and Dina. So basically they're going to
I guess they're going to go around the copper mine
in opposite directions and kind of just meet around. Is
that how that was going to work out?

Speaker 1 (01:34:49):
I guess I believe. So Ellie was like, I'll take
northeast and I'm assuming that Jesse took southeast or something like.

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
It's like a circle. I guess it's like a circle path.
So hopefully they would run into the moon one way
or the other whatever. Time is not on their side though,
and they like book it from there. Yeah, now we're
back with Joel, Dina, and Abbey pacing. Dina urges on
the trio. But you can only go so fast in
a blizzard with the you know, with the beast on

(01:35:17):
their back. So the Horde is absolutely appalling in its
size and scope. It's it's wild.

Speaker 1 (01:35:29):
Yeah, and now I'm gonna have to be a downer again.

Speaker 2 (01:35:32):
Well, let me talk about something real quick. This is
where a hole at this time, if I'm not mistaken,
this is where like a whole second horde is introduced
right from higher up on the mountain. They kind of
like converge, right.

Speaker 1 (01:35:49):
Yes, yeah, yeah, there's one one was initially chasing Joel,
Abby and Dina, and then while that was still ongoing,
another one basically is coming down from the fucking mountain.

Speaker 2 (01:36:04):
They wake up because they wake up presumably because of
the pipe situation.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
Because of the pipe situation.

Speaker 2 (01:36:11):
Okay, I just wanted to verify that the ones that
were chasing Joel, Dina, and Abby were dead set on
their thing, not connected to the network because they're running
on snow, you know what I'm saying. But these other
ones that woke up were connected and they kind of
redirect the whole group.

Speaker 1 (01:36:32):
Yeah, and we'll talk about that shortly when we get there.

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:37):
This is one of those moments where fan service has
done a disservice to the show. Okay, Ultimately, with the
number of infected, there were a lot of complaints by
people that season one did not have enough creatures infected,
this that or the other people can playing so on
and so forth, and now instead of just keeping things

(01:37:01):
relatively believable with a horde of thirty to fifty, I
would be even willing to go up to like seventy
five or one hundred at the fucking max. Yeah, they
swung so far in the opposite direction as to have
a thousand plus infected, easily descending upon first the trio

(01:37:26):
running towards the chalet, but then once the pipe breaks
open and redirects everything, they all end up at Jackson.
So it disappoints me that The Last of Us is
becoming something that it's not. And it's hard to explain
because we're only on episode two of season two, but

(01:37:49):
I you know, one of the things that they said
in the end of episode one was how much bigger
Season two is, how much bigger, how much everything is
just so much bigger. But that's not like the Last
of Us was terrifying and heartbreaking and challenging on such
a small scale that you didn't need to go to

(01:38:12):
these lengths to prove that this is a frightening existence
to people. And it makes me sad as a gamer
and a fan of this franchise. For people who are
not that to see this basically become Game of Thrones
two point zero. And this is where we're going to

(01:38:33):
start talking about certain episodes and one in particular of
Game of Thrones. But I'm gonna stop for now and
let Andrew can continue this scene so then we can
get to the redirection and go from there.

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
Sure, And for the record, I don't necessarily mind a
thousand infected I think that. I mean visually, I'm like,
it's very fucking cool. So maybe I'm part of the problem, guys,
and I'm willing to admit that. Said, I do believe
that Last of Us shines in its smaller character driven
moments and that we are not done with those, so

(01:39:06):
we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
It was both. It was both.

Speaker 2 (01:39:09):
What do you mean? It was both?

Speaker 1 (01:39:10):
It shined with smaller character moments and with smaller threats
that felt so overwhelming because they were intimate threats.

Speaker 2 (01:39:21):
Yeah, no, I agree with that. Like last season the
maybe the you know, the Kansas City episode where we
first see a bloater is one of the more like
if you know, in terms of episodes, you're.

Speaker 1 (01:39:33):
Like, yeah, yes, yeah, because there again there was too
many people.

Speaker 2 (01:39:38):
Yeah, when they're in the museum with the clickers and
stuff like that, that or wasn't the museum when they
were still in Boston and they go through that building
that has all the clickers in it or whatever. Yeah,
that was like very you know, psychological horror and very
effective in my estimation. So I agree with you, But
also I do like, I like I am a big

(01:40:00):
of scale. I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
No, I don't. I'm a big fan of scale in
places where it is meant to be a larger scale.
And the last of us was never that. Yeah, And
that's why it's disappointing, because, first of all, here's a question, Andrew,
where the actual fuck did a thousand plus infected come from?

Speaker 2 (01:40:23):
They have an underground tunnel network situation. They're mycilium. They
can just go, they can be anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:40:30):
No, there is no, there's no believable answer to that question.
That is not Well, we just wanted a lot of
infected and to prove everyone that we can have a
lot of infected so each hit people.

Speaker 2 (01:40:47):
It's tough because you would think that that level of
infected would be in a population center, so you would
be more likely to see that in Boston than Jackson,
and for sure, so and we didn't see that. I mean,
we saw a fair amount of infected in Boston, don't

(01:41:07):
get me wrong, but not this many. So I see
both sides of it. But I do also like, I'm
just a basic bitch. You show me a horde of
zombies and I am riveted by the implications. So and
again also understanding doesn't make a lot of sense for

(01:41:29):
there to be one thousand infected in Jackson. Where were
they when it wasn't cold? Do you know? Like that
means that there were a thousand there just there, Ye,
in that spot in the mountain, the amount like literally
where they do their patrol, there should have been a
thousand of them standing.

Speaker 1 (01:41:49):
Yeah, there's just your there reliant to they're relying way
too heavily on the suspension of disbelief and the bad
assery of the infected vibe, Yeah, to appease the audience.
And it completely fell flat for me.

Speaker 2 (01:42:08):
Yeah, so there's that. I mean, yeah, I'm part of
the problem, is what we're Yes, we are. Yeah, that
was what we're getting at. So, while also realizing that
it is a problem, we cut quickly back to Jackson.
We get the the tendrils moving in the pipe again.
Then we cut back out into the wild and this
is where that more infected appeer higher up. But they

(01:42:31):
are doing that emerging from under the snow situation. We
get clickers screeching. There are easily a thousand plus infected
coming in from multiple directions, emerging from the trees. If
nothing else, it's very evocative imagery, I will say that.
But this is when we see again, like I discussed,

(01:42:53):
they pivot in a different direction. This group, these two
groups of infected merge. Then they head back towards Jackson,
and we just have to assume that the tendrils in
the pipe have called out to them like that is
the only thing that makes sense in this scenario.

Speaker 1 (01:43:13):
Yeah, and this is the conversation about the hive mind
that we've alluded to. We're gonna go full balls to
the wall right now.

Speaker 2 (01:43:23):
I'm ready.

Speaker 1 (01:43:24):
So we understand what was presented to us in season
one with the myceelium hive mind of the infected, and
that they can be activated, they can be directed this,
that and the other. And we know the nature of
Cordyceps is mindless drones. This corruptible incorruptible disease essentially, or

(01:43:46):
affliction that befalls living organic creatures from this fungus. However,
that makes sense, that very much makes sense in warmer climates.
And I know there's someone at I just dropped my pen.
There is someone at home, like, well, they were ins

(01:44:08):
yet there's an actually happening at home. Listen, or in
the car, or at the gym, or on the trail
wherever you are. I know I can hear you actullying
me sure, but that they were insulating themselves from the
cold by using the dead above to protect them. Here's
the thing, though, while there are certainly insulating properties to

(01:44:32):
snow as a whole, it's fucking frozen and the dead
infected above them are fucking frozen. So seeing everything predicated
on this old dude with no single line in the
show using a pickaxe, just you know, the whole fucking

(01:44:56):
Jackson is on like threat level midnight and he's just like,
let's you know, keeve hoe to the minds. I go
and we see the living tendrils and they are controlling
a thousand plus infected that are frozen underneath a mountain
miles upon miles upon miles away. Yeah, yeah, that is

(01:45:18):
an enormous fucking pill to swallow.

Speaker 2 (01:45:21):
I follow you so far. What's the what are you
trying to say that it makes sense this man is
responsible for the death of everyone in Jackson, not Abby,
it's him, it's Habby. I don't know. Now I'm confused
because he's the one that made them turn tail and
go to Jackson.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
Are you serious?

Speaker 2 (01:45:40):
I'm just fucking around.

Speaker 1 (01:45:43):
Are you fucking serious?

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
Like I mean realistic?

Speaker 1 (01:45:46):
I mean, go ahead, if somebody wants if there's an
Abby defender out there, that's like, wow.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
I'm not defect.

Speaker 1 (01:45:53):
Was the guy?

Speaker 2 (01:45:55):
I mean, if he didn't hit that pipe, that second
Horde would not have emerged, and the first Hord would
have just continued following our trio. I feel like that
is true, but you know, it feels wrong to put
it all on this one guy. He was just trying.
He was, like you said, he was just heave ho

(01:46:16):
off to the mind.

Speaker 1 (01:46:17):
Go it just it's so oh my god, it just
it's pissing me off. The more I talk about it,
all of these acts, you know, and I still stand
by my Abbey opinion and her being responsible for all
the deaths because none of I mean none of Let's say,

(01:46:39):
you know, five hundred, let's just say there's a solid
thousand instead of a thousand plus or whatever. Let's just
give a definitive number, and five hundred of them rus
out of the ground like a fucking zombie apocalypse, which
the infected are not fucking zombies. I can't stress this enough.

Speaker 2 (01:46:57):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:58):
They are not zombies, just like white Walkers are not
fucking zombies.

Speaker 2 (01:47:05):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
These are just not the same fucking things. I can't
stand zombie shit. I don't like zombie lor I don't
fucking watch zombie movies. It's all stupid shit to me. Wow,
And you just have to just make excuse after excuse
after excuse for the existence of zombies. And now we're
fucking doing that in this show, and its is off.

Speaker 2 (01:47:27):
I can we do a thought exercise though? Sure? Okay, Now,
at the end of the last episode, we establish that
the tendrils are already there and they were reaching out
to the Sparkler.

Speaker 1 (01:47:43):
Okay, so why wouldn't they have led the horde then
because Abby Abby didn't wake them up.

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
Here's what I'm asking they were reaching out for heat
or warmth or so they weren't exposed, but not necessarily
like attacked, like they weren't pulled that right, So they're
out for the heat or the warmth or whatever or
the light whatever they're reaching out to. Now Abby doesn't
show up where she doesn't do her tomfoolery, and then

(01:48:10):
work begins again next week on Monday, and they start
fucking tearing into this pipe.

Speaker 1 (01:48:16):
It's not next week, it's the next day.

Speaker 2 (01:48:18):
I know, whatever I mean. But let's just assume that
this was the weekend or this as soon this was Saturday. Okay,
Monday rolls around New Year's Eve. We have a long
New Year's Eve weekend, and then Monday rolls around. Everyone
goes back to work, and that same guy with the
pickax hits the pipe and pulls it apart. He's waking
up that hord. He's wait, he not the first one,

(01:48:42):
the second one that emerges. He's that that hord is
waking up as soon as that shit begins to sense
that it is being attacked. Right. Yes, I'm not excusing
anybody or removing anything. I'm just saying that this was
this tendril situation that the rights that Craig set up
was a powder keg from the moment we acknowledged it,

(01:49:07):
which was in fairness one day ago.

Speaker 1 (01:49:11):
Yeah, and powder keg is like the most perfect thing.
And I obviously don't like this because I feel like
it excuses Abby from having responsibility and literally puts all
of the deaths of Jackson onto this one dude who
was just doing his fucking job. And that's incredibly unfair.

(01:49:31):
And my bias one hundred percent is against Abby at
all fucking times in this story. And I will fully
admit to that, So you do not need to call
me out on it. I mean that literally to you
and anybody listening. I will use everything in my arsenal
to blame Abby from here until the end.

Speaker 2 (01:49:50):
Of the show.

Speaker 1 (01:49:50):
Okay, so perfect, just know that that's going to happen.
I will acknowledge that had he not ripped at the tendrils,
their course would not have corrected.

Speaker 2 (01:50:00):
Yeah, but there's no there's no world in which this
doesn't happen eventually, Like exactly if we assume that there
are five hundred sleeping infected in that second Horde in
that part of the mountains, that they're just underground, yeah,
biding their time, and we assume that the entirety of
Jackson's piping system has been compromised by these tendrils. Then

(01:50:25):
one day these two things will, these two forces will
hit into each other. So it just so happened to
be this day. Unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (01:50:37):
I also do genuinely think that even if that guy
had not hit the pipe, yeah something, but it eventually
made their way to Jackson. Yeah, because that that literally
intentionally takes the onus off of Abby, because had that

(01:50:58):
not happened, had that scene in accent not occurred, then
Abby would not have been able to kill Joel because
they would have been too preoccupied being completely overrun at
the Chile with five hundred plus infected, and they all
would have died.

Speaker 2 (01:51:12):
Right. They did some things. This is another Yeah, this
is another thing that they did that was this is
a convenience. It's not a coincidence. It's a kid. Well,
maybe it's a coincidence that this guy is working on
this pipe at the exact moment. Yep, it's hard to know.
It's hard to know. There's just a lot of things
that have had to have happened at a precise time

(01:51:34):
in this episode for things to have unfolded that the
way that they did, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:51:39):
All, and they were all to Abby's benefit.

Speaker 2 (01:51:44):
They were I know, well we'll get let's let's let's
keep moving forward and then we'll see what we can do.
So we'll process together. Just so the bell is rung.
At this point, we get that shot of the guy
looking in the binoculars into just a complete white out.
We see something potentially moving and then we see a

(01:52:07):
lot of infected running towards Jackson, and this guy has
a great reaction to this. Tommy and Maria share a
tender moment before heading out to their respective positions. So
we get announcements from Tommy to get everyone sorted where
they need to be. He's using the megaphone on Main Street.
The young and old, good, down, able bodied, go up.

(01:52:29):
It's a great sequence in terms of staging and just
the movement. It's very dynamic. It's beautiful. Weapons are handed
out in droves. I can't believe you use this, how
dare you? Yep? The White Walkers are close to descending,
So the guy on the wall, I think this is
unless we call it out a little bit later. I

(01:52:51):
think he says five minutes, like they've been able to
time it such that they know based on their distance
from there to hear. It's a five minute distance for
a runner, which is kind of cool and I imagine
very useful. Flamethrower tank valves are opened, which is great.
The men are prepped, doors are barred, vehicles are set

(01:53:12):
in place to kind of barricade, and it's nearly go time.
The infected slam into the wall but it holds. Barrels
are loosed from above the wall, fired upon and they
begin like spraying all of this. It's either gasoline or kerosene.
It's hard to know, but boy, oh boy, let's talk

(01:53:33):
about that for a second.

Speaker 1 (01:53:35):
Yeah, this is where the Game of Thrones Offication of
the Last of Us comes into focus, like full focus.
It has been building this entire episode with the hoard
and the numbers and so on and so forth, but
this almost down to the visual of that guy looking
through the binoculars out at the approaching hord. That was

(01:54:00):
almost I mean like that, if you close your eyes,
that's a scene from Hard Home. It is unbelievable. We
have fucking seen this before on a completely different fantasy
show where the rules are a lot less strict, and
am I the only one that cares about the fucking rules.

Speaker 2 (01:54:23):
I can't believe you would. How dare you quote Walter
against true? I just did a quick google and, believe
it or not, almost exactly ten years ago, Hard Home
aired May thirty first, twenty fifteen.

Speaker 1 (01:54:37):
I'm not surprised.

Speaker 2 (01:54:38):
I'm never ten years. We need a giant zombie horde
in the snow. That's the HBO edict.

Speaker 1 (01:54:46):
Well, then I'm canceling my subscription because we've seen it once.

Speaker 2 (01:54:49):
Cancel it in nine and a half years. That's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:54:51):
Yeah, we've seen it once, now we've seen it twice.
It's too much. It's just way too much. It completely
They scaled up this city of Jackson scale, which means
they scale up the people, which means they scale up
the AMMO, the weapons, the preparations, the stakes. Everything is

(01:55:14):
just ramped all the way up to eleven, which means
they have to answer the call to that and that
call is a thousand plus infected Yeah, and it was
just copy pasta. It was Game of Thrones copy pasta
with the last of us character names.

Speaker 2 (01:55:34):
Sure, I mean that said the preparations were executed incredibly.

Speaker 1 (01:55:38):
They were, And that I want to say was the
distraction that I was talking about where this scale and
the scope on the first watch was so bombastic and
cool that I didn't pay attention to what was happening.
I was just completely enamored with, Oh my god, this

(01:56:01):
is a lot like this is. Wow, Look how well
done this is. Look how intense this is. Look how
it visually beautiful this is? You know, And then and
and the tense just builds and builds and builds until
they slam into the fucking wall and and you feel
that almost in your chest because it like Tommy rocked

(01:56:23):
back and forth when he was looking down in that
moment of impact, and I was like, God, that was
fucking cool, and listen, it was fucking cool. But when
I go back and I have to do my job
on this fucking show, I sat back and I was like,
I've seen this before and I didn't want to see

(01:56:45):
it again.

Speaker 2 (01:56:46):
Yeah, hey, the last of us. That's valid. There are
there is maybe a contingent of people who did not
see Game of Thrones. It's possible, and.

Speaker 1 (01:56:57):
They make it their whole fucking personality, of.

Speaker 2 (01:57:00):
Course, And then there are people that same group who
didn't watch Game of Thrones have seen this, and so
for them. They're seeing it for the first time, which
is great. And to those people, if you happen to
be listening to our show, I implore you please go
watch games at least the first five season.

Speaker 1 (01:57:19):
And don't let the last of us. Don't let this
episode take away from the experience that you will have
on the scale of Game of Thrones, because I don't
think that's possible. I don't think so either. And that's there.

Speaker 2 (01:57:32):
It is.

Speaker 1 (01:57:33):
That's what it is. That's what I've been talking about
with you for the last hour and a half, two hours,
whatever the fuck it is now, that's what it is.
The scope of Game of Thrones was always going to
be enormous because it was never limited to west Rous
or the Ironniles or the Veil like it was just

(01:57:55):
it was every fucking where. It was an entire planet
of looks.

Speaker 2 (01:58:00):
It was an epic. It was an epic. It was
told as an epic like the Iliad or the Odyssey
or you know, something something of that scope and size.

Speaker 1 (01:58:09):
Exactly, which is why the scope and size of it
directly needed to reflect the world that it lived in.
But we are literally talking about Jackson Hole, Wyoming. That
is all that we are dealing with in season two,
and they are trying to make it this fucking epic moment,
and it did not need to. It just missed the

(01:58:32):
mark completely. It completely missed the fucking mark.

Speaker 2 (01:58:35):
I just did a quick Google search here of the
current population of Jackson, do you want to think of guests.

Speaker 1 (01:58:42):
Jackson Hole, Wyoming thirteen hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:58:47):
No, I mean a little bit more. As of twenty
twenty three, ten thousand, six hundred and thirty nine people
live in Jackson, Wyoming. So I guess Jackson Hole.

Speaker 1 (01:58:56):
Jackson, nine thousand, five hundred and seventy five of them
are worker living in hostels.

Speaker 2 (01:59:01):
Right right, right, right, But just begs the question. You
know again, we're just talking about scale. Right, one tenth
of the population of Jackson was running towards trying to
break in too Jackson. You know what I'm saying. So
it just does.

Speaker 1 (01:59:15):
It doesn't, Yeah, it does. Don't want to.

Speaker 2 (01:59:16):
Harp on it for too long. I mean you can
harp on it for you know, for No.

Speaker 1 (01:59:19):
I'm done. We've harped on it for long enough and
I don't want to irritate people.

Speaker 2 (01:59:22):
It is what it is. That's okay. Let's get back
to it though, because we're shooting these barrels. The barrels
are just leaking this liquid, which we kind of know.
They light some fires. They had these brazires on the wall.
They light these torches that they throw them and cub boom,
all these barrels blow up, and that was really cool.

(01:59:47):
I just want to note. Jim in our discord noted
how crazy that actually is, considering what a finite resource
gasoline must be, right, so not in a bad way,
like it's like we have to partition this sometimes sometimes
we need to use this to defend ourselves. But I mean,

(02:00:08):
it's just something worth noting, which is pretty cool. Tommy
was kind of like looking for something though. During all
this he's sniping, he's shooting, he's taken out a lot
of infected. These explosions are happening, But all the while
he's got his eye to the horizon, right.

Speaker 1 (02:00:24):
Not the horizon. He was looking down, yeah, looking, Yeah,
I guess did sure, so I don't know, and what
do you think? So we ultimately can kind of guess
that he was seeking. Inevitably, what happened, but just for
the sake of conversation, was he watching for Joel and

(02:00:44):
Dina amidst all of this chaos, or was he expecting
this shift in the infected being headed up by a
bloater searching for a vulnerable weak spot to breach.

Speaker 2 (02:00:59):
I don't know. Oh, I mean, I think he was
just looking down to make sure that everything was holding.
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:01:05):
He looks like he was looking at something specific, though,
I feel like, and then he does spot the bloater.

Speaker 2 (02:01:13):
Yeah, he probably was. I mean, like, it would be
so hard to see a specific person, you know, like, y,
how tall is that wall that they're on? Twenty feet? Right? Thirty? Maybe?
I don't know. And there's fire and snow and there's

(02:01:35):
thousand right, Oh wait, I don't know. He's like, oh,
I see Joel. Joel's down there. You know.

Speaker 1 (02:01:42):
He just said something that I have to comment on.
One more Game of Thrones thing.

Speaker 2 (02:01:46):
Sure, a song of ire song?

Speaker 1 (02:01:49):
God, damn, you fucking stealing my thunder.

Speaker 2 (02:01:51):
Sorry, you can go ahead and do it.

Speaker 1 (02:01:53):
No, Andrew mentioned snow and fire, and the actual entire
tale of Game of Thrones is called a song of
ice and Fire.

Speaker 2 (02:02:01):
Oh boy, we're going to get some emails.

Speaker 1 (02:02:04):
Yeah, this is another We are definitely gonna get emails
and this is again, I don't reiterate. This is my show,
this is our show. We're gonna say what we're gonna
say on here, all right, I'm ready. So yeah, Tommy
was looking for a song of ice and fire, I
guess amidst the uh infected. Anyway, we are back with Joel, Dina,

(02:02:28):
and Abby. So Joel looks down upon Jackson from his
vantage point and sees what appears to be the town
engulfed in flames, and he declares here that he has
to return if he doesn't make it, because they are
still outside, they are still freezing. He's basically like, if
I don't make it, then I don't make it, but

(02:02:48):
I have to try. But Joel and Dina, if you
really look at them, they are literally freezing to death
in this moment, especially Dina. She's not doing well. And
Abby yells out from behind Joel because she's writing behind
him on his horse. She yells out, quite unconvincingly here
that they are almost to the lodge. It's just up ahead.

(02:03:09):
And I know that this did not happen, But had
Joel seen her say this in the mannerisms in which
she did, he would have immediately known that something was
off about her motivations because you can see it written
all over her face. She doesn't look at him, she
doesn't look down, she doesn't look It's like she has
this vacant stare and she's like, no, we're almost there.

(02:03:33):
Like it's an imploration for this thing to just keep
going the way that she wants it, to get what
she wants. Yeah, and it's very hard to hide those
emotions when they are so transparent and at peak with anybody.
So yeah, and just a little side note, why the

(02:03:55):
fuck isn't Joel wearing a hat?

Speaker 2 (02:03:57):
He's on a hat guy? You know it.

Speaker 1 (02:04:01):
It annoys me.

Speaker 2 (02:04:03):
Because wear hats, and some hats wear men. You know
what I'm saying. Sure, Tommy's a hat guy. Tommy is
a big time hat guy.

Speaker 1 (02:04:14):
Tommy wasn't wearing a hat either, I know, but he.

Speaker 2 (02:04:17):
Got he's got the he's got the energy, he's got
big hat energy. He was wearing a hat in the
season one, right at some point Tommy was wearing a hat.

Speaker 1 (02:04:24):
I just, yeah, I don't understand why you would go
out in sub zero temperatures without a hat on your
fucking head.

Speaker 2 (02:04:31):
That just seems like a beanie or something. Just anything like.

Speaker 1 (02:04:35):
It's it's it's my same complaint with Ellie and her
fucking chalk's stop it.

Speaker 2 (02:04:39):
Oh did you mean I thought you meant like a
cowboy hat. You meant like a car heart would work
for you too, Yeah, okay, I thought you meant specifically
like a cowboy because he's on a horse. I was
just thinking, you know, Okay, I got it, I got you.

Speaker 1 (02:04:54):
No, I mean I'd love joling a cowboy hat. But
that's not the weather for that either. Moving on, so
Abby continues to use all that she can to convince
them to can continue on. They have blankets, they have this,
they have that, YadA, YadA, YadA. But because Dina is
not doing well, and they inevitably listen to Abby and
they leave, turn back head up the path to the lodge.

(02:05:17):
But we are now back on the wall and Ammo
is dropping in droves as the infected burns and dies
by multiple gunfire, multiple rifles and guns and everything else
firing out. But then the Horde shifts again and this
is probably what Tommy was expecting, what we were just

(02:05:40):
talking about. But they're trying to find a vulnerable section
in the wall to breach via a bloater because there
is still an intelligence there. We talked about that with
the Stalker. I think even the Horde as proper we
can call them just like mindless drones, and that is
really what they are. But the mindless drones have grawn,
sometimes in the form of a bloater, and they utilize

(02:06:03):
it very easily.

Speaker 2 (02:06:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:06:05):
So Tommy watches as this begins to unfold, and he
begins running just like high knees and all down fucking
Main Street, calling left, right, and center, and he makes
it to this group of three other men and equips
his flamethrower. He gives his wife a look. Maria's up
on the roof, and everybody knows that it's go time.

(02:06:27):
The bloater breaks open through the wall and the infected
screech through past him. Because again, bloaters are fast, dish,
but they're big, so they're inherently slower chalky.

Speaker 2 (02:06:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:06:40):
I haven't confirmed this, so I don't know, and to
be perfectly honest, it doesn't matter. But in season one,
the bloater was practical. It was an actual man in
a suit.

Speaker 2 (02:06:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:06:51):
I think this season he was digital.

Speaker 2 (02:06:54):
It's possible. Yeah, we have to see the behind the
scenes eventually at some point.

Speaker 1 (02:06:59):
Yeah, and we can do a revision episode where we
just do I don't know, all seven episodes talking about
the behind the scenes shit that we're not going to
watch throughout. But yeah, but the bloater, the bloater is
through and gunfire reins down now behind the walls of Jackson,
and the two men beside Tommy with flamethrowers run and

(02:07:25):
hide because cowardice overwrought. Look, I get it, that would
be terrifying.

Speaker 2 (02:07:32):
I get it. I was like, man, and then Tommy's like,
he's like, I'm not even mad. He's like, I can't
be mad right now, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:07:40):
I mean it's sad because we don't want anything to
happen to Tommy. And again, all bets are off when
shows are on HBO. I just keep I'll leave that
right there. But it's sad because those two men inevitably
do end up dying when they could have just stood
their ground and and maybe did and helped and helped

(02:08:03):
did something, but unfortunately that's not the case. And the
windows are broken out in all of the local shops
and stores and this, that and the other. As the
infected make it through these buildings trying to get onto
the roofs, trying to get to the people. So the
flame throwers are the remaining two, Tommy being one of them,

(02:08:24):
are not having a great time. But he clocks instantly,
Tommy that is on the bloater and then sees his
wife shooting at it, and it starts heading towards her building.
We can infer here that it was going to go
in climb up the fucking stairs. Which that's a funny thought.
A bloater walking upstairs trying to get to her. But Tommy,

(02:08:45):
Tommy runs through main street, passing quite a few infected,
shooting several here and there in his effort to redirect
the attention of the bloater from his wife onto him.
So first comment here is good husband and protecting his wife.
Way to go, Tommy. Second second comment, the fucking plot

(02:09:06):
armor Tommy had here is beyond incomprehensible. He was just
running through infected and they were not attacking him whatsoever.
That's ridiculous. That's like, be so fucking real with me
right now. That's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (02:09:24):
There there's this thing that happens in kung fu movies
where it's like one guy taking on many like any
Bruce Lee movie or anything like that, or like they
all have swords and it's like he's fighting one guy
with a sword and the rest of the guys are
just swinging their swords around, you know, and that's kind
of like same same deal here, Like.

Speaker 1 (02:09:47):
It's it's yeah, I'm just little. It's death by a
thousand knives. It's the That's that's what this episode feels like.
It's I wanted to love it the first viewing. I
really enjoyed the majority of it. The second viewing it
just completely flipped.

Speaker 2 (02:10:03):
It just went.

Speaker 1 (02:10:05):
I'm trying to find a better expression than tits up.

Speaker 2 (02:10:08):
But like it, it's a great one. You know, why
if it ain't broke. Here's the thing that I wanted
to point out that I was able to discuss with
a few folks just post episode, and that is how
they broke everything up in terms of who needed to

(02:10:31):
be where when and why. Sure and now seems like
a good enough time, good at time as any really so,
Tommy in Jackson, Joel out of patrol, Ellie out of patrol.
But none of these obviously Joel and Dina and Jesse
and Ellie and Tommy and Maria. Now, there could have

(02:10:53):
been any permutation of these people together or apart, but
they chose this one specifically. The only reason I can
think of is because let's say that Ellie and Tommy
went out on patrol instead of Ellie and Jesse. Yeah,
then who do we really care about deeply? In Jackson,

(02:11:17):
deeply I care for Maria and Benji, but not deeply. Yeah.
I would hear the argument for Maria. I would hear
an argument maybe for Jesse. But again, in the context
of the show. We just met these people, so not Maria,
but like all of our Newish characters that are named

(02:11:38):
I guess right, like Gail, right, Oh, I would feel
a little bit bad for Cale. So everybody's where they
need to be for us to care. Narratively, Yes, if
it was like Tommy and Joel went out on patrol
and Ellie and Dina were together, right, and then it

(02:12:00):
was Jesse back there or whatever? Again, the permutations don't really.
This is the only permutation that works where we can
care about everything that's happening to these people individually. Did
you clock that or is this me just reaching No?

Speaker 1 (02:12:17):
No, No, I absolutely agree with that, because I'm going
to do I'm going to break my rule. God damn
it for the second or third time, son of a bitch. Yes,
this is the last time'm going to break the rule.
Hopefully probably, I don't think so, but perchance. But in
the game, it was Ellie and Dna on patrol and

(02:12:39):
it was Tommy and Joel on patrol together, and they
changed quite a bit between the game and the show,
and that is all I will say. Yeah, and if
you want to hear what changed, then you you can
subscribe to our Patreon because those episodes will be coming out, yeah,
in about five weeks, no, six or seven weeks, yes,

(02:13:00):
seven weeks. Yeah, yeah, So just something to think about.
But that's why it didn't happen here.

Speaker 2 (02:13:08):
That's what I'm thinking is that they changed enough from
the game, but in changing that, they also need to
rearrange all the pieces on the board. And this is
the only way that makes sense to me, because I
like some of these people that we've met in Jackson,
but like if the only person I'm like, if they

(02:13:31):
kill Tommy, I riot, yeah in Jackson, in Jackson.

Speaker 1 (02:13:38):
In this episode, yeah, I felt the same way, especially yes.

Speaker 2 (02:13:42):
So especially because I was I can't we can't I'm
biting my tongue. Yeah, I'm biting my tongue because of
game stuff, and I will continue to do that. So
that's why I think everybody was where they were in
this configuration. Game people, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:14:00):
Yes, But let's continue this scene. So the bloater takes
the bait. Remember, going back, Tommy was distracting him, trying
to take the focus from Maria to him, and the
bloater takes the bait begins to chase Tommy. So Maria
watches as this unfolds, but she continues on with her efforts,

(02:14:21):
firing off a few more rounds, taking runners in this, that,
and the other down on the street. So from here
she doubles back and makes it through the roof and
the infecta that have breached onto the roof through the
help of others, and she's trying to get down to
street level.

Speaker 2 (02:14:40):
Now.

Speaker 1 (02:14:40):
Tommy winds his way through the buildings and the shops here,
and this very much felt like a set. I loved it,
but it very much felt like a set because it
was obviously. But he winds his way through the buildings
in the shops and then he finds himself at a
dead end, and my first thought was, one, a bunch
of crates that are stacked up, You could totally fucking

(02:15:02):
climb up them. But then my brain's like, this is
not a game, so try not to video gamify everything.
And then my second thought was, dude, do you not
realize where you are? However, I will give I will
give the benefit of the doubt that he was panicked
and not paying attention.

Speaker 2 (02:15:21):
Yeah, it's got this big motherfucker chasing him. Who among
us exactly?

Speaker 1 (02:15:26):
So he kind of backs himself into a corner and
Tommy kind of growls and makes all kinds of guttural
sounds as the bloater saunters around and approaches him. But
Tommy immediately throws some flame at this big bitch, and
the bloater screams a bit, and there's like screaming and screeching,

(02:15:47):
but then it continues to move forward towards Tommy through
the fucking fire, and Tommy kind of takes a step back.
He backs up, you know, as far as he possibly can,
and he just let lets it fucking rip with the
flamethrower and we see his gauge slowly drain, not slowly
actually pretty fucking fast.

Speaker 2 (02:16:07):
That was such a cool touch. I love that. That
was great.

Speaker 1 (02:16:11):
I agree. It was real time drainage of fuel amidst
this giant, fucking, terrifying creature. And he never lets up
on he never lets up on the trigger. And then
he has this moment, and I think we all collectively
had this moment of deep concern of is Tommy about

(02:16:32):
to fucking get his head ripped off like Perry did
in Season one? Yes, thankfully that's not what happened, because
he braces, falls to his ass, temporarily defeated, and at
the last second, the bloater goes down next to him,
crispy motherfucker falls right on his big ass face.

Speaker 2 (02:16:53):
The funny thing is is that Tommy had a gun.
Why didn't mean I think he was out of it?

Speaker 1 (02:16:59):
I think he's I guess I just would have been like, no,
he wasn't out of ammo, because remember when he gets
back onto the street, he starts firing off headshots.

Speaker 2 (02:17:09):
Of course, so yeah, but again in the moment, I'm
sure that you're in a different headspace, so yeah, illout it.

Speaker 1 (02:17:16):
I will allow that to because I can't imagine being
face to face with something like that, I really truly
can't imagine that. And as much as we would like
to think that, you know, Tommy has his cowardice stowed
at the door and his military training comes into practical effect,

(02:17:36):
I guess here this is not something the military trains for,
and he could have very much been triggered from the
trauma that we know that Tommy has. Yeah, so there
was a lot of layers to this moment, and I
think he did the best that he I really do.
I genuinely think he did the best with what he

(02:17:57):
had in the time that he was given, with the
supply that he had on his back, and of course,
thank fuck, it was enough. So, yes, the bloater goes down,
Tommy shrugs off his fuel pack real quick, pulls his
pistol out, and then runs back out to main street,
back out into the shit. And by this point Maria

(02:18:19):
made it down to the street, and there is just
truly devastation all around. There's infected swarming everywhere. We see
people being beat we see attacks and bites gnawling. It's
just every imagine the horrors that you can imagine with
this type of infected are unfolding before our eyes. But
Maria does something unexpected here and I loved it. She

(02:18:42):
goes to a kennel and releases the hounds, and good
boys go.

Speaker 2 (02:18:49):
Lots of good boys. They got it to have a
fair amount of good boys here.

Speaker 1 (02:18:54):
Yes, they did. And this ultimately ends up saving Tommy's
life because he's walking down Main Street and he's I
think he's a little stunned. I wouldn't necessarily he say
he's in full shock. But he's stunned as he's just
kind of taking he's seeking one headshot at a time.

(02:19:14):
But he hears the dogs coming from behind him, and
they blow by him and take out a bunch of
infected that we're very close to descending upon him, which
likely spared the younger Miller's life, undoubtedly. Sure, Sure, Game
of Thrones did that too. Just going to leave that there.

Speaker 2 (02:19:32):
I think they were dire wolves though, weren't they.

Speaker 1 (02:19:34):
No, Ramsey Bolton had dogs.

Speaker 2 (02:19:37):
Oh that's right, he sure did. Yep. All right, let's
go back to the lodge.

Speaker 1 (02:19:41):
Let's not.

Speaker 2 (02:19:43):
I was waiting. That was wayden. Everyone begins to scream
for Abby. As they hear screaming from beyond the snow veil,
they all rush to get inside. Joel is holding onto Dina,
knowing that she is not doing well. Once inside and
close to the fire, Abby tells Owen to help them too,
even nodding to convince him. We see quick clips of

(02:20:07):
a wl F logo twice, and Dina tries immediately to
figure out who these people are.

Speaker 1 (02:20:16):
Yeah, even in her state, she's still trying to. Yeah,
Dina truly is the brains Dina b denon. We find
out that she I mean, you know, we'll talk about
in a second. She is like frostbite, like she is
not She is like very She's in not good shape
at all. It's pretty bad, but even in this state,
still observant.

Speaker 2 (02:20:36):
Yeah. So Joel shrugs off his coat and declares they
are leaving in three minutes.

Speaker 1 (02:20:42):
I want to Paul's real quick right here, because we
talked a lot about Joel and Dina's rapport in episode one,
and this is a stark disconnect from whatever closeness or
friendship or work bond, colleague bond, whatever that they had

(02:21:05):
in less than twenty four hours, because he shrugs off
his coat and immediately declares they're leaving again, completely disregarding
Dina's physical state. He does not care. His only goal
is returning to Jackson and to get to Ellie. And
that goes back to all of our conversations about what

(02:21:28):
are the motivations behind Dina wanting to have a movie
night with Joel and Joel wanting to have a movie
night with Dina. It was all just to get Ellie
in their orbit, And this is like clear confirmation of that.
They were just going about it in a very odd way. Yes,
and it makes me sad for Dina because she's pretty
much disregarded for the remainder of this episode. But I

(02:21:50):
understand why, because she really is inconsequential in all of
what's to happen and unfold here.

Speaker 2 (02:21:57):
I would say that for yes, for what subsequently happens.

Speaker 1 (02:22:02):
After a certain points, she becomes irrelevant.

Speaker 2 (02:22:05):
Yeah, but very what she has seen and heard and
observed will very likely be a major factor. Oh next,
So yeah, they Yeah, I don't want to Yeah, there's
another bite my tongue situation. But yes, I think she

(02:22:28):
was crucial up until she was not crucial.

Speaker 1 (02:22:32):
Yes again, which, so.

Speaker 2 (02:22:35):
Abbi gives introductions to her crew, Abby, Nora, Manny Owen,
and Mel.

Speaker 1 (02:22:41):
Yes, why would you reveal all of your names when
there is still one person in this room that you
are literally one you're about to murder and one you
are quote putting to sleep. This is a logical writing.
This goes back to and I meant to mention this,
but we've neglected to do this. Back at the Copper Mine,

(02:23:02):
we did not mention that Dina was the one to
give away who Joel was to Abby. Yeah, she calls
out to him. Yeah, she calls out to him approximately
three times I counted. And this is one of those
things that I think we can put under convenience not coincidence,

(02:23:24):
because everybody can easily explain away why she did what
she did because she's nineteen years old in panicking.

Speaker 2 (02:23:31):
Well, yeah, what else would she call him too?

Speaker 1 (02:23:33):
I just I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:23:35):
I feel like.

Speaker 1 (02:23:37):
I just think that there would be I think going
forward after what happens in this episode, I would not
be surprised if code names were used in the future.
Call me Nighthawk, not I mean, just anything. I'd call
me fucking Carl, Like whatever.

Speaker 2 (02:23:56):
What if someone comes from a blood Thursday rampage for
Carl and you're using the code name Garl.

Speaker 1 (02:24:04):
I know there's there's Okay, okay, so call me bugging'
top gun, I don't know whatever, But like you.

Speaker 2 (02:24:10):
Could have, Maverick was right there, I didn't want to.
Just don't be Goose. Come on, hey, rip, Yeah, that's
what I'm saying. Don't be Goose, I know.

Speaker 1 (02:24:21):
But you can't be Iceman now either, because rip, God.

Speaker 2 (02:24:24):
Damn Iceman went on to do great things he did,
so he.

Speaker 1 (02:24:28):
Did anyway anyway, So yeah, I I just Dina. Dina
revealed names first in this episode, which is where why
we find ourselves in the situations that we did. But
on that same vein, it just is weird to me
that a military that a group of military fucking children

(02:24:50):
or early twenty somethings playing per ten military essentially revealed
their names when they are intentionally going to keep one
of the people alive and murder the other one that
they came with, So like vengeance is a thing.

Speaker 2 (02:25:06):
Yes, you're right, However, sure my thought is as this
scene goes on, and it's very clear that she, I mean,
Abby in this case is posturing and kind of monologuing
even like a villain. We'll get to that that they've

(02:25:28):
never done this before, because realistically, you would not do that. Yeah,
and so I'm chalking this up to rookie mistake, you
know what.

Speaker 1 (02:25:40):
And I'll I'll give them that. I will give them that,
But I but the same thing. It's like, and I'm
not spoiling anything because I genuinely don't know how this
season's going to go, because that's how much has changed.

Speaker 2 (02:25:52):
Yeah, there's already so much.

Speaker 1 (02:25:54):
But if you have one character reveal a key person's
name on this show and that leads to that person's death,
wouldn't you understand that the same is likely going to
happen to you because you did the same fucking thing.

Speaker 2 (02:26:11):
We will see, we will see. Yeah, So after that,
Dina reveals her name too, and so everybody knows each other. Now, Yeah,
we're all friends, We're all we're all in this together.
We just survived the zombie Horde. Abby turns and says,
and he is Joel. Everyone begins to react at this

(02:26:37):
unbelievable turn of events. Yes, this unbelievable turn of events.

Speaker 1 (02:26:43):
Yes, an emphasis on the unbelievable portion of the yes.

Speaker 2 (02:26:48):
At this point, a shift rolls through the shell A.
Things are about to go from bad to worse. Dina
is taken hostage by Manny. As everyone's motives begin to unfold,
Joel is first disarmed very quickly. They say they won't
hurt Dina, only put her to sleep, and it's for

(02:27:08):
the best.

Speaker 1 (02:27:09):
Let's talk about what best here might mean and whether
Dina will feel that way in the not too distant future.
And this is all hypotheticals. Is it better to be
unaware when someone you love or at least you are
fond of or care for, is tortured and you are

(02:27:30):
powerless to stop? But again you're unaware? Or is it
more I don't want to say I don't want to
say better. I wrote better.

Speaker 2 (02:27:38):
But is it more more good? No?

Speaker 1 (02:27:42):
Is it more respectable? I guess? Or is it more
of an honor to not honor? Because that's sick? But
is it more something else to bear witness to the
burden of an untimely, suffering death? So what what is
the what? What's the lesser of two evils? To be
awake and powerless and do nothing to stop it, but

(02:28:03):
to recount what happened in great detail for those who
need that closure and that information, Or to be completely
unaware forcibly made unaware and not have a fucking clue
really truly of what happened.

Speaker 2 (02:28:20):
Yeah, I mean, by no fault of Dinas, she was
already in really bad shape, right, And I would say,
neither of those is good. Where is this? Where's the
third option where everybody has a hug and a laugh
and we all get to walk home together. The thing
that would be, like, narratively, we're already going to have

(02:28:42):
a character that bears witness, so we don't need two.

Speaker 1 (02:28:47):
Yeah, but that's an enemy character. It's different. No, no, no,
I mean Ellie comes in towards the end. She doesn't
see all of it, but she you know, I meant
all of it though, But you're right.

Speaker 2 (02:28:56):
Yeah, So the I don't know what. I don't know
what purpose it serves other than to just like completely
fuck up Dina. If she was awake for this, you
know what I'm saying. I agree, if there was something
that they needed to evoke from her character at a
later time, then they keep her awake. But otherwise it

(02:29:18):
is it's a shared but not quite fully shared trauma
that her and Ellie will now have. And Jesse actually later.

Speaker 1 (02:29:28):
Because he walks, yeah, he writes, I mean he gets
there after the fact.

Speaker 2 (02:29:32):
But still he sees, you know, he's walking in on
a terrible a terrible scene. So yeah, I don't know.
There's no good answer for what is better for Dina
Dina's mental capacity, but yeah, there it is, because either.

Speaker 1 (02:29:46):
Way she's helpless, and I'm afraid for her and Ellie
that she will have to endure some of the blame
in this situation in the future. My gut is telling me,
because as humans, we all need escapegoat, we all need
someone to fucking blame. And I know that ninety nine

(02:30:06):
point nine percent of that blame is on Abby's shoulders
and should be for all of time. But if I
was in this exact situation, even if I knew, oh
you were passed out, Oh you were this, or you
were that, I would still be like, why didn't you
fucking sense something like why why? It's just that natural

(02:30:28):
human inclination to blame. Yeah, the person closest to you,
essentially in a situation, and unfortunately that's going to be Dina.
I hope I'm wrong.

Speaker 2 (02:30:38):
Yeah, So Abby here threatens mel which is you know,
one of her friends. If that, if she doesn't Knockdane out,
she'll smash Dina in the fucking face. That's a quote,
if you will. Yeah, Joel figures out that this isn't
a smash and grab at this point, and he determines

(02:30:59):
that these people look like military, and he says fireflies
more specifically. Yeah, and then we, you know, get the
retort that the fireflies are all gone. Hasn't he heard?
And there is no soft moment before Dina passes out.
They stick a neil in her hand and she's on

(02:31:22):
the floor. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (02:31:24):
And I have two talking points about that one. It's
kind of sad that I know I was just talking
about last week talking about the weirdness of Dina and
Joel's dynamic, but it's kind of sad that there wasn't
even a look exchanged between them. It was just over.

(02:31:44):
It was lights out for her. But on that same note,
and I did say this to you while we were
watching the show on Sunday night, Dina's eyes were still
twitching and when Joel, after Joel had been shot in
the leg, he kind of looks over to Dina to
make sure that she is actually asleep, because I think

(02:32:06):
in his mind he's still protecting Ellie and doesn't want
that truth to be revealed unless Ellie chooses for it
to be revealed, and clearly she hasn't. But so one,
did there need to be a shared moment? And two
was Dina fully asleep or was she that weird nebulous

(02:32:28):
when you first start to fall asleep and you can
still kind of hear things and you're still kind of
aware of your like you're still self aware that you
are a person and have a body and are existing
in a space.

Speaker 2 (02:32:41):
You know. Yeah, I mean I think she's I think
the latter. It's clear that like mel is like some
has some is like a medic or maybe has some
kind of training, like she she clocked the frostbite and
was attempting to treat it with a band aid or
you know, like a some sort of sterile pad, right,

(02:33:03):
so'm I just imagine that whatever they gave her was
a pretty powerful sedative that they probably got from a
hospital or wherever, wherever the hell they got that from,
and then she was out. That was that she was
in dreamland.

Speaker 1 (02:33:19):
I don't know, I don't think she was fully out.

Speaker 2 (02:33:22):
Well that so the fact that maybe you know, to
your other point about them having a moment, I don't know,
Joel seemed pretty locked in. I imagine about a million
things were going through his head.

Speaker 1 (02:33:35):
Yeah, none of them involved DNA except for she's a
hostage escape?

Speaker 2 (02:33:41):
Yeah, how can we get out of this? Like I
think it was like, oh, you know, if I get
over there, and then I'm gonna get over there and
I can take this guy out, and you know a
lot of and he's I'm sure that he she was
somewhere in the list of priorities, but at this point,
hands up, disarmed, surrounded by five strangers, she was maybe
the sixth, Right, I got to take these five people out,

(02:34:04):
then we'll get to Dina. You know.

Speaker 1 (02:34:06):
Would you go so far as to say that Joel
saved Dina's life by surrendering his weapons.

Speaker 2 (02:34:14):
Yeah, yeah, I think if he was you know, yeah,
if he immediately pulled a gun, well, she was already
a hostage, right, So there's no world in which.

Speaker 1 (02:34:26):
They wouldn't have pulled the trigger or at least hurt.

Speaker 2 (02:34:29):
Her in some way. Again, we learned that they do
have some sort of code, so and she at that
point was defenseless. That's what they do. They don't apparently
hurt the defenseless, So it would have been Joel that
got shot probably, and then he you know, we don't know.
There's a million things we could have theorized on, but sure, yeah,

(02:34:50):
he did save her life by just going quietly complying.
So Joel remains hands up as Abby runs down the
list of personal characters sticks that we heard from the
very beginning of the first episode. He even compliments him
on being handsome, which is a choice. A choice. Abby

(02:35:11):
offers one chance for him to tell the truth, and
as a result of that, she will let Dina live.
Mail protests for a moment before being collared by Abby again,
where was the last place Joel saw the fireflies? Obviously
dead on the floor of the hospital, but Joel says,

(02:35:32):
Salt Lake. At least he's honest. Joel turns to look
at Jackson one more time. It's just over his shoulder
in the shot of him, it's framed really, really wonderfully. Now,
I mean, obviously it's a terrible sight, but it's burning
just over his shoulder, and at that moment when he
turns back, his knee is shotgunned. Abby picks up a

(02:35:53):
shotgun and just takes out his knee. Abby orders Joel's
leg to be put in a tourniquet. At this point,
Owen wants this over with and just just asks Abby
to do what they came to do, which is kill Joel. Right.

Speaker 1 (02:36:09):
Yeah, did Owen forget that she said she wanted to
kill him slowly five years ago? Or did he think
that over the years he could convince her not to
go into full psychosis?

Speaker 2 (02:36:20):
Definitely forgot right. I don't remember what was it. I
don't remember what we talk about.

Speaker 1 (02:36:28):
A week ago, you know, I mean you would remember
if I said we're going to kill someone slowly.

Speaker 2 (02:36:34):
Sure, I think I yeah, again, but we don't know
what the hell else they have been through. It's five years, right,
who knows in this world what the hell else you
go through? But I also think that that was maybe
it could be that thing where you're like, that was
just you know, that's just a figure of speech. Sure, No,

(02:36:59):
I mean I don't know. I mean, yeah, it's hard
to know what he was thinking remembered.

Speaker 1 (02:37:06):
The only pushback I have for not believing for one
second it was a figure of speech is because she
spent the last five years hunting him. If somebody meant
didn't mean that, they would have given up by the
end of the first year.

Speaker 2 (02:37:20):
That's true, and again, like I said earlier, it seems
like she's the one that's driving this, not really those
other four. Again, I'm not saying that they didn't lose
people that they didn't care about, that they cared about,
but potentially they were people that were just not as
close to them as Abby and her father seem to
have been. You know, could have been just a friend

(02:37:43):
or a patrol partner or something like that. So here
comes a ridiculous diet tribe. She sauncers over trying to
be tough. Asking Joel questions about how many people he's killed,
she notes down that it was eighteen soldiers and one doctor,
and that doctor was her dad. So, as you noted

(02:38:04):
on the last episode, Papa, as you noted on the
last episode, she actually spoiled that in the posts episode thing,
but now we find it out here for sure, So
there it is. Yeah, letting the nurses live was Joel's mistake.
Apparently Abby looked at her father's dead body and she

(02:38:28):
was nineteen at the time. She continues to drone on
here in the militia for five years, talks about codes,
doesn't kill those they can't defend. Himself. Then she touches
his forehead, which was I thought that was to the
maybe like they just noted the scar, so maybe she
was touching that. I don't know, Joel. Is that person

(02:38:52):
right now in meaning a person who can't defend himself? Yeah,
and she is going to kill him anyway, because it
doesn't matter if you have codes or not. There are
just some fucking things that are There are just some
things that everyone agrees are fucking wrong. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:39:09):
Is this not one of those instances, you dumb bitch
like I you're breaking your Everything that she stands for
is set upon a fucking house of cards.

Speaker 2 (02:39:19):
Yeah, I know. Yeah, that's that's another You know, it's something.
Just note it down. I think it's worth noting down.

Speaker 1 (02:39:26):
Yep, I'm done.

Speaker 2 (02:39:27):
No, no, no, I mean for everybody, you know, get
again in copy books. I'm assuming everyone's taking copious notes
throughout this podcast. Just please don't all of our great ideas.
She turns and sees golf clubs in the room, again,
hinting that this was a billionaire's house. Oh ye, of
golf golf clubs in the living room. Where are clubs, darling, They're.

Speaker 1 (02:39:49):
Just going to be swinging and hitting golf balls right
into the fucking mountains.

Speaker 2 (02:39:53):
She grabs the nine iron with a smile on her face.
Abby begins again talking about how long she's wait, but
Joel cuts her off and tells her shut the fuck
up and do it already, which I think he said
what we were all feeling.

Speaker 1 (02:40:08):
Yeah, you mentioned earlier that like she has this villain
speech and this really that that truly was it. It
was so much exposition and going back to what I
said in the beginning of the episode, like this is
the exposition episode of the century essentially, because it just
went on and on and on. Here's the motivations for this,
this is what you did, this is what I'm going

(02:40:30):
to do. That's what's gonna happen. That's what led you here,
That's why I'm here. This is where we're going. I've
gotta kill Yeah, Like it was just I would have
absolutely been like, shut your fucking hole and just do it.

Speaker 2 (02:40:46):
Nobody gonna kill myself.

Speaker 1 (02:40:48):
God Like, seriously, shut up. So I mean he clear
he not only accepted his fate in that moment, for sure,
but I think he was just he was trying trying
to remain who Joel was to the bitter end, but
also tired of her fucking bullshit.

Speaker 2 (02:41:06):
It was a badass It was a badass play. I'm
gonna be honest with you, you know. She calls him
a stupid old man and tells him that he doesn't
get to rush this. Abby hits him repeatedly in his
shot open knee, and the third hit breaks the club.
So there's that, all right.

Speaker 1 (02:41:26):
Now, stay with me, people, and Andrew, keep an eye
on where I'm at because you might.

Speaker 2 (02:41:32):
Have to take over Tap me in, tap me in
at any time.

Speaker 1 (02:41:36):
So we are now with Ellie, but at the lodge,
Ellie races on shimmer to the chalet, glimpsing Jackson on
fire behind her, but there's a trail of horse tracks
leading ahead and up, and through the window we see
Ellie ride into view, but nobody else sees this because

(02:41:58):
Abby's madness and the beating of Joel fills the space.
Mel is crying by the fireplace and completely turned away.
Owen is looking away as well, but Nora and Manny
are watching because they're sick motherfuckers. Dina still appears to
be completely out cold on the floor nearby, and we

(02:42:21):
can see that Joel is clinging to life, but his
face is bloody and swollen. And eventually Owen speaks up
here and calls Abby by her name, and she ignores
him and keeps on hitting. She's maniacally beating Joel, screaming
and howling as she does this. Ellie arrives outside of

(02:42:42):
the lodge and she sees Dina and Joel's horses tied
off nearby. She walks in and there is no one
there to stop her, no one there to hurt her.
But as she walks she hears thuds and screams from above,
and again the are abby screams, not Joel's. She has
a switchblade in one hand and her gun in the other,

(02:43:05):
and Ellie turns the knob and enters literal hell on Earth,
and we can hear Owen on the other side at
this point, also yelling to Abby that that's enough, and
this is before Ellie had entered, but Abby disregards him,
and she continues on still. And like I said at
the end of episode one, she's a fucking psycho, and

(02:43:26):
I will stand by that for the rest of my life.
But Ellie creeps in slowly here. She is methodical. I
wouldn't go so far as to say super stealthy, but
certainly methodical. And she sees Joel on the floor and
immediately raises her pistol in recognition of what is happening.
But she's immediately vested and throw it to the ground
by Manny, who gets a nice slice to his nasty

(02:43:50):
ass face by Ellie and her switchblade.

Speaker 2 (02:43:53):
Yeah, she gets a shot off too, right, I think
she gets, but I mean it misses, but she does.
There is a shot fire. Great.

Speaker 1 (02:44:00):
I thought that that was Manny, but Owen stopped him.
I could be wrong. I really do not want to
rewatch this scene, so if anyone knows, please just let
us know. But Ellie struggles here and is thrown to
the ground by Nora and Owen. Owen kicks the switchblade
away from Ellie and then grabs her from behind, and

(02:44:23):
Nora pins Ellie down with her knee. And this is
all while Abby watches this unfold. And I'm going to
take a beat so I can breathe and just talk
about something else for a second. But where the hell
did Ellie's hand to hand combat skills go? We were
introduced to them yesterday in this story. And she gets

(02:44:44):
bested by the actual lamest crew that has had Kismet
and Convenience work for them every step of the way
today to lead to this moment, and yet Gone doesn't
know how to fight, does know how to get out
of this situation, can't figure it out.

Speaker 2 (02:45:04):
Yeah. I think what you what we talked about, what
you may have mentioned, is there's there's the shock of
all that is happening, and just wanting to get to Joel,
not even necessarily passed the people in the room, just
get to Joel. Yeah, And so she's not here thinking
about like, oh if I just you know, sweep the

(02:45:27):
leg and twist this way, I can No, she's not
even trying to break the hold on her. She is
just trying to get to Joel. I don't think she's
fighting anything right now.

Speaker 1 (02:45:40):
I mean she did struggle. She was struggling against Nora
and trying to get up while yelling at Joel eventually,
and we'll get to that, yeah, But it just it
was weird how episode one introduced that and episode two,
which is literally the following day. It's like none of
that actually matters in the heat of the moment when
it should matter the most.

Speaker 2 (02:46:01):
Yeah, And I think that is I don't think you
have those two things back to back if they don't
mean something. Sure, so when you know you are going
to be sparring in a gym, that is different than
when you are spontaneously in a street fight. So there

(02:46:26):
is a you know, the lizard brain thing fight or flight.
You know that you are in a in the context
of a gym, it's a controlled space. We're doing this.
It's a tit for tat. This is not that, And
so I think it's I'm reserving judgment on the We

(02:46:48):
saw her do it, and then we saw it fail spectacularly.
Here only as a way to highlight a mental state
and potentially moving forward mental state, we'll see, And I.

Speaker 1 (02:47:03):
Do agree with you. I just thought it was important
to point out, like you could even just blame shock itself, sure,
for completely usurping her training and her skills and everything
that she's learned over the past five years. And I've
seen a lot of people use that argument a lot
of times. But I don't know. Sometimes I think my

(02:47:27):
anger just doesn't allow that excuse to go so far
as to what actually happens in this room. Yeah, and
I want to make it very clear I'm not blaming Ellie.

Speaker 2 (02:47:38):
No no, no, no no.

Speaker 1 (02:47:39):
But it disappoints me that all of these skill sets,
all of these trainings, all of these moments throughout the
past five years that she's gone on patrol or sparred
or strengthened her body and learned how to fight, how
to survive in this world, immediately go out the window

(02:48:01):
because she's so solely focused on getting to Joel that
she doesn't check her fucking her you know, her sides.
She didn't check the sides, and that's why they were
able to get the drop on her. And it's the
worst moment for that to happen. The only moment that
it happened is the worst moment that it happened, you

(02:48:22):
know what I'm.

Speaker 2 (02:48:23):
Saying, right, Yeah, And that's it's often true in life
as well, right, So sure, that's right. It sets up
a potential. I'm not saying that we're going to hear
this or whatever, but like the moment where you falter
sets up the line narratively later in a in a

(02:48:45):
movie or a television show, like I'm never going to
let that happen to me again, you know, Like that
the way like a person who's training fails them. You know,
that's where they they they after a montage, they you
know that never again. Yeah, So I don't know if
that's what's going to happen here, but certainly could so.

Speaker 1 (02:49:05):
Continuing, Manny immediately in uh true little small dick energy fashion,
pulls his gun and immediately tries to attack and kill
Ellie because she cut him on the face. But thankfully
he is stopped by Owen because now Ellie is disarmed

(02:49:30):
and that code is coming into action, I guess with
the rest of the crew. But Manny is clearly a
bad seed, and as is Abby, because they don't care
about the code. Some people do, some people don't in
this group. So Nora continues to hold Ellie down while
Ellie screams for Joel to get up, repeating it over
and over, and Owen tells Abby to end it, and

(02:49:52):
Ellie screams for Joel in this moment to get up,
and he actually starts to raise his head ever so,
and she responds in kind, partially lifting her head up.
And I think she did that from surprise in a way.
I don't think she expected him to do that. But
if there was one person on this earth that Joel
would listen to. Of course, it would be Ellie, and

(02:50:12):
he would not let her down, even in literally the
last moments of his life. And I'm like sick to
my stomach thinking about that.

Speaker 2 (02:50:23):
It's tough to watch.

Speaker 1 (02:50:26):
So Ellie cries and pleads and continues to beg for
Joel to get up, but it becomes an unheard prayer,
and Abby walks into frame and steals focus from Joel's
shattered face as she reaches for what remains of the
broken golf club. And Ellie knows what's coming. I think
everybody knows what's coming. And she begins to literally beg

(02:50:50):
Abby not to do the thing that she's going to do,
and alsound leaves is. Abby stabs Joel in the back
of his neck, in his throat area, and it kills
him almost insanely. This just a quick sidebar. This was
really awkward. I watched hate I hate that I say this,
but I watched it back a few times and it

(02:51:11):
looked fake. Like I know, obviously it has to be
faked to a certain degree because Caitlyn Deaver can stab
Pedro in the fucking throat, But it just looked awkward.
H And I thought it was a weird choice, and

(02:51:32):
I can't. I don't really even know why. And that's
the strange thing about how I feel about this. I
don't know why. It just looked weird. It was horrible.
It was just horrible, but it looked awkward. So I
was like, this is horrible and yet bad too. From

(02:51:54):
like a cinematic standpoint, it just felt I don't know,
it almost pissed me off. I think that's what it was.
I was like, if you're going to do this, and
they are going, and they are doing this, it's like,
why would you do that? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:52:08):
We'll see, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:52:10):
So Ellie's eyes are locked onto joel In and he
is gone now, and Abby is just kind of kneeling
there processing I don't give a fuck what she's doing.
But Owen and Manny are fighting over Manny still wanting
to kill Ellie, and Ellie's just crying here before she

(02:52:31):
has whispers of revenge literally bubble out of her before
they turn into guttural screams that she will fucking kill
her and that they're all gonna fucking die, and Manny
walks over and gives a severe kick to Ellie's diaphragm,
likely breaking her ribs and takes the wind right out
of her. And there's a flurry of movements as the

(02:52:54):
Wolf crew get dressed to flee the scene, and Manny
stops by Joel and mumble fucking bendejo which is fucking asshole,
and leaves. And then Ellie, this is like the hardest
fucking part.

Speaker 2 (02:53:12):
Can you tap in? Yeah? Of course, Ellie crawls to
Joel's side, and she is still struggling to breathe. She
touches him, reaching for his hand and searching for some
kind of connection.

Speaker 1 (02:53:34):
And I want to talk real quick.

Speaker 2 (02:53:36):
So I heard.

Speaker 1 (02:53:38):
Again, we didn't watch the after the episode thing, but
I heard quotes that Craig Mason interpreted this scene as
Ellie believed she was dying and wanted to go with Joel,
which is why she crawled over to be with him.
This is not at all what I took from the scene,

(02:54:01):
because human touch and connectivity is like intrinsic to who
we are as a species. M And I think in
this moment, I'm disregarding what Craig said to be clear,
and that and that's his interpretation, and if anybody else

(02:54:22):
felt that similarly, then I whatever that did for you,
Whether maybe that gave you peace thinking that Ellie was
ready to go with him, I don't know, but in
my experience with loss, especially of a parent, the first
thing we did was touch my dad and just hold

(02:54:44):
him because he was still warm, and that doesn't last
very long after someone passes, and when that goes, then
you don't touch them anymore, and then you don't ever
touch them again. Not because of the tab nature of
a dead body, not because it's creepy, not because of
any of that, but because whatever force, whatever life force,

(02:55:07):
their soul, their blood, their heart, whatever that was, that
element that keeps us alive is gone. And I think
that when I watched that scene and I fucking fell apart,
that's what it was. It was just I need to
be close to him. I couldn't do anything m and

(02:55:28):
I'm not going to be able to do this, especially
because they drag him through the fucking snow for how
god knows how many miles. He's gonna be frozen by
the time they get home, yep, and all of that
humanness goes. And it was so heartbreaking but so beautiful,

(02:55:52):
and I saw people very upset that they did this
because this is not what happened in the game. I
feel like the minority here in that. Though it was
incredibly difficult to watch, it was so fucking beautiful to
see that Ellie didn't even realize Dina was in the room, like,

(02:56:15):
didn't see her once, just needed to be close to
her person and that level of desperation and grief, instantaneous grief,
needed to be felt in real time. If they had
just cut after the WLF WLF had left, it would

(02:56:37):
have been incredibly devastating as an audience to not see
the aftermath.

Speaker 2 (02:56:46):
Yeah. Now, I agree with your interpretation one hundred percent
about the connection, right, and they were the only you know,
all that existed for her at that moment was Jill. Yeah,
I mean, you know, Joel so and I don't have
anything to end really, you know. At that point, she

(02:57:08):
removes the golf club and throws it behind her, her
eyes closed as she does this, very likely to avoid
seeing it, you know, leave his body. She holds his
hand and lays her head against his, crying and breathing shallowly,
obviously still injured from the kick.

Speaker 1 (02:57:27):
I've got to put this note in there. The holding
of the hand thing felt very reminiscent of Season one
when he was in the basement after being impaled and
she was helping him and they exchanged that look and
she held his hand and he held her hand back.
Mm hmmm, because I think he knew he needed help

(02:57:50):
in that moment, And I mean, he's not a person
that accepts help easily. We can absolutely assume that of Joel,
but in this moment, I think she was trying for
that and it just couldn't happen.

Speaker 2 (02:58:05):
Yeah, yeah, very likely. Again mirrors not of mirrors. So
there is an aerial view that's kind of the camera's
rising over them from above, and Ellie is holding on
to him halfway and lying partially, and then the blood
pool begins to grow larger beneath his head and then

(02:58:30):
begins a very heartbreaking rendition of the song through the
Valley by Ashley Johnson. People. This one hurt for game people.
Ashley Johnson is the voice of Ellie in the Games,

(02:58:51):
and she played Ellie's mom in season one. Yeah, and
obviously very very talented voice artist and singer, So this
was this was tough. It was an instant recognition for
the two of us, at least on the couch like,
oh man, they went with this one. So I didn't

(02:59:13):
know what this episode was called because when we first
when we first played it, it just sad Episode two.
But you knew what the episode was called, Yeah, which
was a nod towards this song Yeah, which we which
you probably knew was going to play at some point,
which meant, you know, meant all of this was about
to happen. So there was that. Yeah, So there's that

(02:59:37):
through the valley.

Speaker 1 (02:59:39):
It was so beautiful.

Speaker 2 (02:59:40):
Yeah, it takes us out. It's a very very bitter, sweet,
melancholy kind of take on the song. So we see
the five cursed souls of the WLF walking through the snow,
and just worth noting that the blizzard stopped just long

(03:00:01):
enough to allow them an exit.

Speaker 1 (03:00:02):
Of course it did.

Speaker 2 (03:00:04):
The chalet is behind them, with Jesse's horse riding up
just a little too late. We see Jesse's horse again,
this kind of an aerial view. Back in Jackson, there
is utter chaos and destruction. A man who was bitten
gives his pistol to another to be killed, and I
thought that was really powerful. Yeah, the recognition in his eyes.

(03:00:29):
It's three to five seconds total. The entire thing but
really really powerful. Yeah, there are fires raging, infected in
residents lying dead in the streets. Tommy walks over to Maria.
They're both okay, but really, you know, neither of them
are okay. Tommy almost collapses into Maria's arms, but she

(03:00:53):
props him up, and then she nearly topples over as well.
So just an exhausting couple of what feels like ours.
I don't know how long the assault on Jackson was,
but it feels like ours days. Jesse, Dina, and Ellie
ride back to Jackson, with Joel wrapped in a white

(03:01:13):
sheet dragging behind Ellie and Jesse's horse. Ellie looks back
and keeps looking back, wheezing, very likely a few, if
not many broken ribs from the kick. It was a
it was a heck of a kick.

Speaker 1 (03:01:30):
Yeah, she's not doing well.

Speaker 2 (03:01:33):
We see the same view of Jackson out ahead one
final time, smoke bellowing from shops and everything like that,
and that's that's that's where we leave it, really on
that on that very haunting shot.

Speaker 1 (03:01:51):
Yeah, behind the two horses, Joel being dragged and Jesse,
Dina and Ellie riding back home to literal carnage. With
carnage in tow. It's just a nightmare. It's a fucking nightmare.
What has happened to these people will probably happen to

(03:02:12):
the people in the future. I am team Jackson, team Joel,
team Ellie all the fucking way, and there will be
no part of me that will change that. And I
know there are likely people who are like, well, Jack,
this is just you know, this is the Empire strikes
back phase where the bad guys win and everything goes

(03:02:36):
their way, and then you know, we get to see
their downfall presumably again, I don't know. But it was
a very difficult episode to watch in many, many different ways,
and from complaints to disappointments, to gripes to devastation. I'm
glad that we got past this episode. I'm so fucking

(03:03:00):
glad that That's the only thing that I can take
away from this is that I knew, fuck I knew
Joel's death was going to happen soon. I didn't think
if I thought maybe episode two or three, and then
I heard that it was called Through the Valley, and
I'm like, that's it, and I think, if there's one takeaway,
I'm glad it's over. So I don't have to have

(03:03:22):
that anxiety going into next week, and I can just
be on the hateful journey for the remainder of this series.
And I don't care if people think that I am
the problem in that way. I have my own reasons.
I went through the worst year of my life in
twenty twenty, which coincided with the release of this game

(03:03:45):
and the death of my father, and nothing will ever
change that, because nothing ever can change that, so strong
opinions strongly held. So I'm not trying to dissuade anyone
who potentially wants to email and just be like Jack,
try to see perspectives, try to understan. I'm asking you,
with all due respect, to just save your breath. I

(03:04:06):
appreciate you and the time that you would have taken,
but it will not work unless you leave me.

Speaker 2 (03:04:12):
I know. Yeah, if anyone's tried.

Speaker 1 (03:04:16):
Yeah, and Andrew has listened to probably eight hundred hours
of me talking about all of this.

Speaker 2 (03:04:23):
Yeah, he started this because I was like, we probably
should have just recorded all that.

Speaker 1 (03:04:28):
Yeah. No, he's dead serious. He's dead serious, like Wayfair
and Strangers was in part started because I needed an
outlet to get this out of my fucking brain and
my heart because it was literal depression because of this.
And even yesterday I couldn't do the notes. I tried

(03:04:49):
so many times and I was like, I can't do this.
I just have to sleep. And I slept for like
three and a half hours, and then I woke up
and I was like, I kind of feel ridiculous, but
that's what I needed. So I hope that everyone is
doing what they needed after this show. If you feel
similarly to me, and even if you don't, I still
hope you took a beat and and took a breath

(03:05:10):
because Jesus.

Speaker 2 (03:05:12):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (03:05:13):
And I have one last dumb ass question. Sure, why
wouldn't Jesse, Dina, and Ellie take all four horses back
to Jackson? And if they weren't going to do it,
why wouldn't the WLF steal their horses too? Is there
an honor among murderers? I guess I don't know.

Speaker 2 (03:05:33):
I don't know the answer to either of those questions.
I imagine that if the horse was inside, then it's
probably fine for at least a little bit. The priority
is probably getting back to Jackson just to let if
for no other reason, then to let people know that
some of us are still alive.

Speaker 1 (03:05:50):
And okay, I just I hate the Joel dragging behind
the horse they had, they had two other horses that
they didn't take that they could have laid him over
and just pulled the reins.

Speaker 2 (03:06:05):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if
the you know, we don't know what the nobody knew
what the horde situation was. Still, like, you know, there's
a there's a lot of a lot of considerations.

Speaker 1 (03:06:15):
So true, And there's another question, are they all did
the Horde?

Speaker 2 (03:06:19):
Yeah, you have to imagine that, yes they are. That
Jackson won at a cost, at a great cost, but
they won, and that any any that they didn't kill
are now re exposed to the elements and dead that way.
So okay, you know, it was a all that is
to say, I don't think we're going to see another thousand,

(03:06:41):
thousand infected, thousand plus infected Horde in or around Jackson again.
I think that that they've taken care of that problem. Yeah,
we better can safely remove the tendrils from the pipes now, Yeah,
just burn them, just burn them out.

Speaker 1 (03:06:57):
Yeah, all right, everyone, That is the end of our episode.
We talked so much for so long and did we
repeat ourselves? Yeah, but again, same thing with episode one.
There are instances that happen in different parts of the
episode that all mount to one theme that need to
be talked about as we go. Yeah, and hopefully we

(03:07:21):
can streamline just a little bit better going forward. Maybe
I don't know, I feel a little vulnerable after this episode.
That's probably why I'm still talking too much.

Speaker 2 (03:07:31):
But yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:07:33):
If you would like to follow our podcast, you can
do that on Instagram at Telu Podcasts or blue Sky
at Telu podcast If you'd like to find us on YouTube,
check us out over there, or some of our season
or all of our season one videos for our episodes
are up on Spotify and YouTube. Just search for Telu
Podcasts or Wayfair and Strangers or the last cast. It

(03:07:55):
will all lead you to the Promised Land. And Wayfair
Strangers is our other last of us podcasts where we
break down the video games in just as great of
a depth as we do here with the TV show.
And if you're interested in that or just want to
hang out with Andrew and iMore, head on over and

(03:08:18):
hit that subscribe. You can find me on the Internet
at either Jaded Vader or through Wilderness, which is thru
wilderness like through hiking. Andrew can be found everywhere at
Dark Driving primarily or Blue Sky at Andrew Grimley because
of his verification because he's fans verified.

Speaker 2 (03:08:38):
Yeah, yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 (03:08:39):
If any of you would like to just take a
minute or two and give us some five star reviews
or ratings or Spotify comments, we very much appreciate that
and we'll read them on these episodes week to week,
So feel free to share what's on your mind. And
because we did officially launch our Patreon, which you can

(03:09:02):
visit at patreon dot com slash Telu Podcast, we only
have one tier on there right now, keeping it simple
until the end of this season and then we will
have the higher tier for the longer content. But we
already have two wonderful, wonderful members, and one of them
is our wonderful friend Ozzy Oza, who is also a

(03:09:26):
wonderful friend of Wayfar and Strangers like a wonderful listener
of the Wayfar and Strangers Pod and supports us over
there just so generously. And Barb who Barb officially subscribed
to our Patreon and is very excited to hear our
name at the end of all of our shows going

(03:09:48):
forward for the season. So Barb, I love you, Thank you, Besty.

Speaker 2 (03:09:53):
I miss you all the time and get used to
that joke at the end of every episode as far
as long as you're subscribed.

Speaker 1 (03:10:01):
Yeah, I told her about it. I was like, I
know that you forget sometimes, but the Barb who joke
is still going strong over on Wayfair. So yeah, that's
a wonderful, wonderful development. So thank you to Ozzie and
Barb for subscribing to our show and supporting us and
loving on us. We appreciate you and are so grateful.

(03:10:23):
And yeah, that is all I got because I need
to go to sleep.

Speaker 2 (03:10:28):
Well with that. We'll be back next week, warning the
souls of those lost and praying to the gods of
vengeance to be on our side for once. Bye bye, y'all.

Speaker 1 (03:11:27):
You know, one ship urped take him one ship, one
ship at a time. Jesus

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