3. The Path

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to the Last Cast, HBO's unofficial Last of Us
recap podcast. This show hosted each week by Me, Jack
and Andrew.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh. Hello there.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
We'll take a deeper look into the Mega TV series event.
We'll break down, assess, compare, and contrast, and have a
little bit of fun as we go. So grab yourself
a cup of Joel's favorite blend and let's get home
with Yeah. Andrew did that little get home with It
before the show, before we even started recording, So now
when I just had to do it, it just seemed

(00:55):
funnier because I'm doing it.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Get home with It?

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, I guess, yeah, maybe you should say that part
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Anyway, I'm not going to start second guests and myself. Now,
NOI we stick to we have a plan. We stick
to the plan, stick to the script. I think that's right.
That's how it has to go. Can I say something
up top here? Mm hmm, Holy mackerel, that's what I
want to say. Okay, a lot of comments, a lot

(01:24):
of comments, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
And we really we're going to try our best to
not have this be three and a half hours long
today because we are recording on Friday, May second, because
this week has been family events, a lot of work.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Busy or other.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Podcast we just managed to drop before midnight last night,
so we're we're working with a tight schedule this week,
so we're doing our best, and.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, onward and upward. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
I think we should just get into the comments because
they were so many, and they were amazing and some
funny and some just heartfelt. So yeah, I think I
will start us off okay with the first one is
from Zidraate ninety one, who is actually a coffee subscriber
for our Wayfair and show. So I was very happy

(02:17):
to see your name over here. Zidra, thank you so much.
But Zidra says, I swear this podcast makes my week
so much better, from the deepest of deep dives to
Jack and Andrew's open and honest thoughts and opinions on everything.
Thank you for taking the time you do each week
to do this podcast. So many emotions felt in this episode.

(02:39):
Make sure you have those tissues ready to hand around.
Much love to y'all from down Under.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Down Under. So I have to you, I have to.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
I don't know any person that doesn't attempt an all
the accent when when when you from.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
When people say down Under. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, all right,
I'll allow it.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
So thank you Zidra and all of just we should
have said this first. But all of these comments are
in response to our episode two because on Spotify you
can leave comments on specific episodes, so all of these
were from episode two. And yeah, that was a very
emotional one for us. So smart words of wisdom from

(03:21):
zidraate here there.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
It is, there, it is. Yeah, all right, we got
one from Nelly. Nelly says, I'm so glad Jack is
as upset about this episode as I am. Elli. Just
a weird thing to be glad about, Nellie, But nomes kidding.
Love your podcast. The long form is great to listen
to during work. I actually prefer your podcast to the

(03:44):
official HBO one. I did not editorialize the laugh. There
is a laugh in the comment, so I did, Nellie.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Thank you so much, And yeah, I'm still I'm still upset.
And some things improved a little bit this week and
some things did not, and we'll get into that. But yeah,
that episode really kind of pissed me off, and I'm
glad that people received me. Even if you disagreed with me,

(04:20):
you were kind and I appreciate that, but I also
do love an echo chamber sometimes, so let's go Nellie,
me and you. So yeah, and preferring us to the
official HBO show is quite possibly the best thing that
I've heard all year, So.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Appreciate you take that, Baker.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yes, we're actually gonna talk a little bit because again
I get snippets from the official podcast on Instagram and
we'll get there when we get to those particular parts
in our episode three review. But next comment is from
Liam C. Thank god for Yeah not being an abby sickaphant.
I'm hyped to hear you tear into her in the

(05:05):
next few episodes. Right, Okay, all right, the echo chamber continues. Yet, No,
you will never get any sycophantic behavior from me for anybody,
really but Joel truly yea, and not even I won't
even do it for Joel on the TV show because

(05:26):
he's not the version of Joel that I am a
sickaphan for.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
So hashtag not my Joel. Is that what you're trying
to say in essence without saying it? Sure?

Speaker 1 (05:36):
But okay, yeah, I'm just not that. I'm not that person.
I'm going to criticize where it's due, And we've talked
about this on last season and probably overrun Wayfair and Strangers.
I get upset when people have zero criticisms for things.
It's okay to be completely obsessed and in love with something,

(05:59):
but that doesn't mean it perfect because it's not. There's
an inherent flaw into everything that we consume, and it's
okay to talk about that. It doesn't make you less
of a fan, and it doesn't make me a shitty fan,
you know what I'm saying. It just it's it's content
created by human beings, consumed by human beings who have

(06:19):
critical thinking applied to it. That's literally all it is
at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
So and I think everyone's quite a bit more meat,
has more media literacy these days. To hold your showrunners
and writers and creators and directors to a higher standard
is not a bad thing, No, not even a little bit.
So all right, we got one here from Kurth Money
eighty three longtime listener actually to the other podcast first

(06:47):
and now on the last cast here, and I believe
this is in reference to our asking the question if
the bloater in the last episode was Well, it has
to be, because that's the only thing that makes sense.
So yeah, we just kind of opined and mused. Was
this bloater a real person like it was in season
one or was it CG and kurth Money says the

(07:09):
bloater was a bit of both. Actually, it was a
real stuntman in a fireproof suit with MOCAP sensors and stuff,
and that was used as a reference for the CGI
of the bloater Boom. Pretty damn cool. Yeah, it's pretty deep.
I love when they can merge the technology. You know,
it must be very cumbersome in season one to have

(07:29):
worn that suit and yeah, convincingly, so to uh just
kind of have it supplemented probably makes everyone's life a
little bit easier.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
And yeah, I do think that the Bloater in episode
two looked fantastic.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
It was real.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
It just it felt real, but without unfortunately, like the
practical effects of season one. And I say unfortunately because
I feel like shows these days endeavor to have more
real than not, because I feel like the CG I,
while used when necessary, of course, was so huge in
the early aughts, like think about the prequel trilogy and

(08:08):
things like or yeah, the prequel trilogy of Star Wars
and things like that, like George Lucas just went fucking
ham with green screen. But now it's like, we can
take the time and we can do this right because
the expectation on timelines and things like that are we're
gonna have to wait several years for this shit. Might
as well do it right instead of just you know,
another round of CGI or stuff like that. Not to

(08:30):
say that that looks bad, because there's CGI from the
nineties that looks phenomenal still. But then when you think
of movies like Jurassic Park or even Titanic from the nineties,
So Jurassic Park ninety three, Titanic from nineteen ninety seven,
they still look incredible because the majority of that was real. So,

(08:51):
you know, I understand why they do what they do,
but I'm happy that it looked very real in episode two.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah. Absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
So the next comment from Eric H and this this
goes back to me picking Abby as my most most
loathsome villain or antagonist. Every time Andrew presented an optioned, oh,
this is a fun game. Please send in more and
we'll read them all. Well, we have to do more comparisons. Yeah, yeah,

(09:22):
but Eric H says Abby or Charles McGill from Better
Call Saul, or Abby or Abigail Williams from the Crucible.
So what I'm still picking Abby of course over for both,
for especially for Charles McGill. Here's the thing, Charlie Chuck Chuck,
Chuck Chuck had a lot of problems. Better Call is

(09:45):
a phenomenal series, and if people have not given it
a try, Like if you have started Better Call Saul
because you are a mega Breaking Bad fan, but you're like, oh,
this is too slow, stop it, stop it and watch
the show. It is fan fantastic. It is just as
good as Breaking Bad. Aside from that, Charles McGill is

(10:07):
the brother of Better Call Saul, who is Jimmy's. Yeah,
his real name is James McGill, and he did things
that we as an audience disagreed with. However, when you
really pull the curtain back fully on charge on Jimmy McGill,

(10:27):
you can understand why Chuck made some decisions that he did.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, so, I mean he was not wrong about Jimmy.
He was never wrong about Jimmy. He wasn't. But I
don't know if you haven't watched the show, yeah, I know, maybe, Yeah,
it'd be funnier to maybe just bleep that out.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
He was never beat Yeah, I just I encourage everyone
to watch that show. Fantastic. But Abby is still winning
between her and UH and Chuck. But I've never seen
The Crucible, so I don't know anything about Abigaililliams. But
the fact that it's Abby versus Abby, I'm still going
to pick Abby.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
I just at a just at a high level, because
I had seen a stage performance of the Crucible and
essentially Abigail, you know, obviously I think I'm sure it
was made into a movie, maybe a mini series or whatever.
But it's a famous play, so okay, she is responsible
for She's essentially the catalyst for many of the Salem

(11:25):
witch trials, so she put many women to death. I
didn't know that name.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yes, yeah, yeah, I just still a podcast cover the
Salem Witch Trials a couple of months ago, and I
was like, well, fuck Abby again.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
She was Yeah. Her thing was like, if I'm not mistaken,
she was trying to marry or or you know, just
get in, you know, getting good with the guy, you know,
like the head I can't remember his name, Yeah, the
head of the person who spearheaded the Salem Witch Trials.
So she was trying to be like, Oh, if I
stir the pod enough, maybe he'll notice me, you know,

(12:01):
you know, real.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Love little evil bitch. Yeah, but as evil as a
Abby wins? And which Abby? Which Abby am I talking about?
I guess we'll never.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
No, No, I think we I think it's pretty clear.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
It is funny though, that Abigail Williams like Ellie. Ellie's
last name is Williams. And then there's Abby from the
list of so Abby and l I hate that. I
hate that so much. So yeah, Williams's yeah, Abby Winds.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Okay, we got this really esoteric comment from Michael Wannamaker
and it's just three emojis. Okay, So I was able
to determine at least half of well, it's three emojis,
so I was able to get sixty six percent of
this message, and the rest of it escapes me. So

(12:53):
it's the fried egg in a pan emoji yeah, okay, yeah,
and then the son and then a hole yeah, and
so obviously sun hoole right to jack maybe Jackson hole. Yeah.
So I cannot, for the life of me figure out

(13:13):
what the hell the fried egg in a pan eggs
and hole. We floated it out on the discord. I've
asked other people. I feel like I'm going insane, Michael.
We need context, I know.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
And I asked Michael directly on Spotify. I'm like, I'm
going to need you to decipher this one. And Michael
just laughed at my comment and then never replied.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
So classic Michael. That's a classic Michael move.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
I'm going to just say that this is like Jackson hole,
but I don't understand how eggs in a frying pan translate.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
To jack I don't know. I'm going to go with
eggs and hole. That's like or is Michael making fun
of me?

Speaker 1 (13:54):
Like do you remember the old commercials in the nineties,
like this is your brain on drugs and it's like
a cracked egg being fried or whatever, Like is.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
That like cracks and hole?

Speaker 1 (14:06):
I mean, we literally do not know, So please help us, Michael.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
There you go, or don't and let it live in infamy.
Is the most mysterious comment we've ever received.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Sure, oh my god, but anyway, yees so from Ali
Ali Ali, I appreciate the in depth discussion and equal
love with this series as this podcast, even if I
do not agree with the opinions about Abby here. I
am forever a believer that two things can be true,
Abby for hers and Joel for his. And this is

(14:38):
the brutal truth of what life is. Love fuels everything,
be it empathy or compassion and even violence.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Jack.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
I love how much of a fan you are of
this series as much as I am, and that we
can both be holding two very different opinions. Can't wait
to hear more. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. This
is when I go on the diatribe of people seem
to have forgotten how to communicate and have discussions with
one another when you disagree, and usually the instinct nowadays

(15:13):
is if someone is at home listening to me talk
on my podcast and they disagree vehemently with what I'm saying,
the knee jerk reaction is to just attack me instead
of saying, calmly and respectfully exactly what Ali just said here.
I don't agree with you, but I love this podcast

(15:33):
and I appreciate all that you do, and I can't
wait to hear more like that. As a society, I
feel like we have completely lost that because of social
media and keyboard warriors and people who just think that
they can say the most hurtful, hateful shit because your
face is not directly in front of the person you're
saying it too. But it really truly goes back to

(15:55):
if you were standing in front of someone, would you
say those words to their face? And I would wager
nine point nine times out of ten people wouldn't because one,
you're gonna get punched in the fucking face, and two
it's so disrespectful that you realize it in that moment.
But when you're hide and behind your little fucking computer
and you're hunched over and you're eh, there's no there's

(16:17):
no consequence, or rarely there's a consequence.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
So Allie, thank you, Alie Cubed as I like to
call her, Yes, Aliya, Yaddie. All right, we got Kate
p Up next. I'm only two minutes in. I'm an
only show watcher because I can't play games low and
I knew it was going to happen because the Internet
spoiled it for me. But I think you did a

(16:41):
good job ned not letting on last episode. Oh that
makes me happy.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
It makes me so sad for you that you were
already spoiled. But at the same time, I'm kind of
glad that that might have happened, because I've seen a
lot of reactions of people who didn't know that this
was coming, and they were just like purely devastated. And
that's exactly how we were all in twenty twenty. Well people, sure,
who didn't I mean the game leaked like this whole

(17:10):
story of the game leaked like a week or two
before it came out in June of twenty twenty, or
a month whatever it was, and I completely cut myself
off from that. I was like, I'm not I'm not
reading a single fucking thing. Yeah, So it was a
devastating blow. When I first played it, I had no clue.
And now we're seeing people experience that with the show,

(17:30):
and it's just it sucks and I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
So but I'm glad that we didn't give nothing away.
You know, there are a few people that I work
with on a pretty regular basis that knew that I
have the other podcast and that I've played the games
and enjoyed them, and many of them the next time
I had seen them after episode two would be like,
why didn't you tell me? Yeah, And I'm like, I

(17:56):
our family, Crest is in this house. We do not spoil,
and so I would never I let nothing, I let
nothing slip. Yeah, but they were like, wow, this is
you know after episode one, everyone's like, yeah, it seems
like it's going to be a pretty decent season. We're
going to see what's you know, maybe this happy part whatever,
maybe we're going to have this epic struggle for the

(18:17):
is like no, no, no, oh boy, no boy.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, it's sad because I remember how I felt five
years ago. I still feel it now, and especially people
who were die hard fans of Pedro. Obviously Pedro was
alive and well so it's not that, but it's just
when you see your favorite actor who becomes your favorite
character potentially and they go through something like that that

(18:46):
lingers with you. So yes, our compassion and our hearts
and our empathy and sympathy go out to all of
you who were completely caught off guard.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
So yeah, but I'm glad again, I'm glad that we
didn't give anything away because we fucking knew it was common.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Who knew it was comment But anyway, as for you, Kate,
but I mean again sorry that you got spoiled. But yeah,
it wasn't us, Nope, it wasn't it. You should cut
it whoever spoiled it out of your life. Yes, I'm kidding,
unless they deserve it.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, they probably deserve it if they're spoiling you for
shit like that anyway. From Fryan from Fryan Fryan, Fryan
from Ryan A, I can't blame you for hating Abby.
When I was on my first play through and experienced
it for the first time, I broke my first joystick.
I thought the death of Joel would be easier this time,
but I passed the game four times and I just

(19:40):
started crying when I saw it. When I seen it
in the show, and the hatred just came back. This
show is going to be one hell of a ride. Ryan,
I agree. I don't really have anything more to add
I just I agree.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
It is interesting. What it's just think about what level
you need to be at to like break a controller.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
You know. Yeah, I've never gotten to that point. I
mean when playing part two and when Joel did die,
I did put my controller down, and I think I
just walked downstairs utterly devastated to see you because you
had you had played that scene. You were always about

(20:21):
an hour too ahead of me in the game because
we were little shitty, spoiled people like I have my
own PS five, he has his own PS five.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
I mean, it is what it is.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
So we were playing like I was upstairs playing it,
he was downstairs playing it. But I had gone to
bed earlier the night before, so he had a couple
of hours on me. And when that happened, you knew
I was coming up to it. And then I just
went downstairs and I was just like, I can't believe
that happened, Like I genuinely can't fucking believe that happened.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
And you were just like yeah and consoled me. Yeah,
not great. That's all you can do. That's all you
can do. Okay. Yeah. Up next from John. I'm new
to listening to your podcasts. Welcome. I love the in
depth conversations around the content in the show. Quick question

(21:16):
in your opinion, why is there so many infected around
in the winds here when I'm pretty sure in season one,
when Tommy is shooting infected with Ellie, he says they
seem to migrate like birds. Keep up the good work,
you know what, John, It's an interesting question, isn't it.
Because the writers needed a lot of infected that's why
they're there.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah, hey is x markin a days x Mackinger saying
it would be everyone. Those are the things that disappoint
me the most with this show. Where there's a lot
of conveniences being taken, there's a lot of leeway being
given when consistency.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
In my opinion, consistency.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
In a story is one of the most important factors
of making a story great and received well, and tiny
little things like this where it's like a throwaway comment
or seemingly throw away comment between Tommy and Ellie comes
back to inevitably bite them in the ass, and then

(22:17):
people can make the argument of, well, maybe Tommy was
wrong because he didn't really have a fucking clue of
what was.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Going on, and you can make that argument.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
But I would also like to believe that Tommy has
been in Jackson for a significant amount of time, and
if not him, certainly his wife, and she would tell
him if a thousand infected horde was a regular happenstance there,
and I would wagure that if that is something that
happens quite often, they wouldn't have built such a big

(22:48):
damn settlement in Jackson. So you could literally just keep
going down the rabbit hole with debunking why this never
should have happened on the show. And by you I
mean me. I could certainly just keep doing this with
just evidence all the way down.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
But it happened. It is what it is.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
There's no consistency behind it, and it's not going to change.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, if they I mean there's a lot of birds,
if they move like you know, like a flu like
migrate like birds, and generally and just saying if they
are like birds, they tend to migrate away from the cold,
not towards it exactly. So there's just another kind of

(23:32):
thing to consider. So yeah, it's not great. It's just
that they had to have been there already and they
decided to burrow and do what they do. What they've
decided to do. So I get it from a narrative
I don't understand it from a narrative side. I should

(23:53):
say I get it from an entertainment side. Yes, Like
we want to get new viewers in here. Potentially the
easiest way to do that is to have a large
zombie board.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
And they that's what they did. That's what they did,
that's what they all agreed upon, and it wasn't the
right choice for the last of us. But visually, yeah,
it's great. It's great anyway. So from s Bernard, welcome back, guys.
Still holding up here in our Kansas City stronghold. So

(24:25):
happy to hear you guys back on the cast for
people who are skimming comments, amazing podcast with the deepest
of dives with people who are truly committed. Jack, I'm
not gonna lie. You were on my mind in this
episode of the show. I was concerned by the way
King Jeoffrey was rough. Some of us haven't made our
mind up about this new character yet, don't really know

(24:47):
this person. You know, Hi Andrew Endoor and survive. Hi,
so Bernard, I'm reading here that you are not familiar
with the game, so Ab a new character too, if
I'm extrapolating correctly here, King Joffrey was terrible, just the
literal fucking worst, but but not worse than someone but

(25:11):
not worse than Abby for me. But I understand that
some people absolutely have not made their mind up about
this new character, meaning Abby.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
However, if you just saw her.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Murder one of the main characters from season one and
you part way of season two, I feel like that
that should lead you to hate her even a little
bit more right off the bat if you don't know
anything about her, and then maybe your opinion will change
over the next few seasons, seasons, maybe it will not.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
That all depends on what the writers do.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
But yes, I uh, but at the same time, you
said you were thinking about me and concerned, and I'm
assuming you weren't consulted concerned the whole show, just when
what happened to Joel happened.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
So I appreciate, I appreciate your concern. But yeah, thank you. Yeah,
that's it, Hey, Endurance Survive. I won't say anything else,
just because you know, I don't want to leave it
at that. I'm happy, happy for the concern, and we'll
I'll be here as the I don't even know what
I'm trying.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Sometimes sometimes I start a sence and I don't even
know where I'm going.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
That was me. I basically just wanted to say, like,
I'll be here to be a little bit more reserved
about what the writers do with with Abby and see
what we can see. Like I said, they've already made
some what I believe are pretty smart changes. So if
they continue with the smart changes, we'll just see what happens,

(26:44):
but it's already really hard to predict how close they're
gonna kind of stick to the source material at this point.
M h all right, this is from Connor. Oh shocked,
Shocked you didn't come on Abby calling Joel handsome. All

(27:04):
I can think about is that video that you showed
me of the lady pretending to be one of the
nurses on TikTok. Oh my god, that we should definitely
put that in the show notes because it's worth watching.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
I'll have to track it down, but it was this
TikTok video of this girl just like crying as she
recounts what happened in the hospital room to Abby, like
so she's performing a scene and she was like he
was just so hot, like it turned out of time,
Like oh my god, just like, oh he was just
oh so cut dad, and he looked hot doing it.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
He looked I can fix him. And it's just one
of those I mean, I you know, obviously an exaggeration,
but that just based on like he's handsome. That means
it came up right, And so that's it's just very
funny to think about the context in which somebody mentioned

(28:04):
there were only basically two people that's kind of survived.
So it's like they kind of both agreed that he
was pretty hot, so which is just again it's that's
silly writing, you know. And I think I didn't mention
it because in my head I was like, who, I
don't care, Like, it's so fucking cringe to me that
Abby said that to him after saying it in episode one,

(28:26):
Like and that's that's the argument for people who are
making all these jokes. They're like, did people not hear
Abby say that by the Graves in episode one? And
oh yeah, he's handsome, like that's what she had said
to Owen, And I'm like, well, people heard that and
they remember it, Like, so we're not fucking brain dead here,

(28:46):
thank you. It's the weird.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
I'm about to fucking kill you, but I'm going to
compliment your looks as a throwback line to episode one,
but also to some event at when they were recounting
Abby's father's death, that's the information they gave her. And
it's like, that's a little fucking weird. And I had
seen another reel on Instagram where it was like it

(29:13):
shows Abby saying, you know what, you are actually really
handsome with that smile on her face, and it cuts
to Joel and he's just like like a thought bubble
pops out of his end.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
He's like, oh my god, am I am I about
to get laid.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
It was like, first of all, that's hilarious, and second ill, yeah,
it was incredibly misplaced.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
And I think in my.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
My thought process, I was like, I'm not talking about
this because I'm shitting on the show so much already
that if I do talk about this, it might be
a little nitpicky.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Okay, that's just a nice thing that they can do
for Pedro. You know, we all know he's a pretty
good looking guy. So they're just you know, let's let's
just call it out. Let's just make it up. Let's
just say the thing we're all thinking. You know, sure,
maybe we're not all thinking it, and that's all. And
that's so okay too. Yeah, I don't want to be mean.
I don't.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
He's fine, it's not Yeah, he's fine. And I I
was like ten feet away from Pedro Pascal in twenty
nineteen at Star Wars celebration, and yeah, I was.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
He was right.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
He walked right out on the stage because he's in
the Mandelorian and all that stuff, and I was very
close to uh where he had walked out, and I
the one thing I remember is he was wearing these
fine leather like caramel shoes and I was like, oh,
they're probably really expensive, but they look good on him.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Here you go, that's all I thought.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
I was like, yeah, I mean he's good, he's good looking,
but he's just not my type.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Like there you go. Hey, that's all right. Everybody's got
their type.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
It's Joel. My type is my Joel, Joel game, Joel game, Joel. Yes,
got it, Always game Joel. Anyway, So next comment is
from three Hearts, so no name, it was just three
heart emojis, and I love that. But they say love
this podcast. I don't think there's anything better than the

(31:10):
different life experiences we all have and the way that
makes the game resonate with us not going to try
to ever do any convincing with Jack as she's told
us not to lmao, and I'm really appreciative of her perspective.
That being said, there's a couple of really poetic parallels
slash similarities between her and Abby that makes her stance

(31:32):
on Abby even more enjoyable and poetic. But y'all didn't
hear that from me? Excited for the next one? Wait,
are these fighting words? Are we about to Are we
about to have an internet fight? No, because this goes
back to the respect shared between people who can have
a conversation. Sure, I understand high level where those parallels

(31:54):
might come into play or present some sort of poetry
in motion or in vocalizations, but I obviously do not
agree with that because I would never torture. That would
be equivalent to me wanting to torture cancer because of
what it did to my dad.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
That's not what is happening. I can.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
I can say fuck cancer and genuinely mean that from
the depths of my soul because of not only my dad,
but just friends that I know that have struggled with
that or lost their battles with that, friends who are
currently fighting cancer. But I'm not going to take, you know,
a five year long journey and hunt down the cancer
cell that killed someone or maim someone to the point

(32:40):
of irreversible or reparable damage to their mental, psyche or
physical form like That's I don't think that this is
a thing that works well for me. I understand what
you're trying to say though, So I'm not mad, I'm
not upset, and I from a high level, Yes, my
dad died and then I had to watch someone else

(33:02):
in a fictional sense die brutally after watching my real
father go through fucking hell for a year with his
cancer battle. I'm not trying to change your opinion. I
just don't necessarily agree with this for my own life.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, yeah, Hey, that's okay.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah, but I appreciate your comment. Yeah, I very much
appreciate your comment and feeling the way what am I
trying to say, Like, it genuinely moves me when people
take the time to write things like this anonymous person did,
because you're putting thought not only into what we're like,

(33:43):
the content we're producing and putting out there, but also
the personal side of things that I've included. You're absorbing
that and being delicate with it. And that's a really
special thing and rare these days going back to people
just want to attack usually and that's not what happened here.
And I appreciate you, so I understand remaining anonymous.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, it's content and context.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yes, one hundred percent, and usually one of them just
gets completely shelved to the wayside. With opinions these days, so.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Thank you we got one from Jess. I'm going to
try to do this opening line correctly. Sure, Shack, I
hope that came through. I moved very far away from
the microphone. Yeah, I heard you through the door before
I heard you through my headphooks. Yeah, I hadn't cried

(34:36):
until hearing your thoughts and knowing what you've put out
there about your loss. Thank you again for putting to
words the little things I haven't been able to put
my finger on. Jess. Well, thank you, Jess.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
I'm glad that we do a good job with detail
that can shine light on otherwise missible moments or again,
we nitpick, I nitpick, not we I nitpicks some times,
and I understand that that can get annoying. But I
also just try to cover every fucking thing that I
possibly can with these shows, and some things people might miss,

(35:10):
some things people might catch. Some things I miss, you know,
like the Joel's handsome thing. But that was kind of intentional.
But I'm sorry that the emotions runneth over in episode
two and left left you also in an emotional state.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Thank you for writing in, Jess. We appreciate you and
this is a real poetic one to end on for
you to have.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
You go yes, oh yes, and it's from my girl,
mariy my my bestie down on dah so from Mari.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
It's twice now.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yes, damn if I didn't cheer when Jack said the
gloves are off, let's go. I don't know why I
turned that into a wolf because normally when I say
let's go, it's like let's go.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
But yeah, you howled it this time. Maybe because it's
the WLF. Maybe Oh my god, fuck that.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
I love actual wolves, not these pretend stupid idiots. But
I thank you very much, Mari, thank you. I love
seeing your name pop up in any iteration. So thank
you everyone who commented. And Barb, if you're listening to
this episode, I do have your email.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
We are covering it at.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
The end of this show, so you have to listen
till the end of the show to hear it because
it talks directly about something that happens at the end
of this show, and I felt that it would be
best placed to cover at that point. So okay, Andrew,
give us a little show info please yes.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
In terms of the production, this show was directed by
Peter I. Guess this is whorer. I can't think of
any other way to pronounce this well. Peter Horr, how
are poor? And Written again by Craig Mason. The episode
summary is, after Dina shares crucial intel, Ellie prepares to

(37:11):
petition the town council near Seattle, a religious group flees
a war. That's a good summary. Actually, that's pretty good.
Sailed all that. Yeah, they nailed all the high level
points without giving anything away. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
So and before, like, I think we're going to scrap
the how did we initially feel? And all that section
because it's a little repetitive. So we're just going to
dive right into the episode three breakdown. Let's do it,
and I'm going to kick us off.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Here.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
We are in Jackson, and the first thing that we
are greeted with are the burnt remains of the infected
that are still smoldering outside of the gate. The wall, however,
looks to be intact, which is a very comforting thing.
And then it goes to a close up of Joel's
watch and we see that a random woman is washing
his hand, his arm, his forearm, but she stops once

(38:05):
Tommy arrives into this hallowed space.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
For Jackson's dead, and he paces.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
At first he looks away, but he takes the proffered
washcloth and walks to Joel.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
So he folds the sheet back by Joel's head.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
And we don't see what Tommy sees here, but we
know what he is seeing and it hurts, and Gabriel
Luna is just we're going to talk about his performance shortly,
but he expresses so much on his face during this
particular scene, and as his heart breaks, so does ours
all over again. But then he sits and resumes where

(38:43):
the woman left off, and he begins to wash his
brother in a sort of quiet ceremony. But he stops
by Joel's watch and then looks towards Joel's covered face
and says, very softly and with so much emotion in
his voice, gives Sarah and my love, and then he
begins to cry. So this is all obviously very heartbreakingly hard.

(39:07):
But we've neglected to talk about Gabriel Luna's performance in
his role as Tommy Miller since the start of this season.
I know we've talked about it plenty in season one,
but I think it's time to just go over how
phenomenal Gabriel Luna has played Tommy Miller, and I genuinely

(39:31):
think if there is one character so full or excuse me,
if there's one actor so fully seeded into his character's boots,
his characters cowboy boots, it is Gabriel Luna and Tommy Miller.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
He embodies this character. He looks like he changed his
physique to be more broad, to be more bulkier. The
makeup to age him up looks fit just phenomenal. His
acting is incredible. He truly is such a standout and
believable in every fucking scene that he has been in
since the start of season two. And we don't necessarily

(40:08):
know what's going to happen for the rest of the
season and what Tommy's role is going to be because
things have certainly changed quite a bit between the game
and the show. And I again we've shared that we
like that, but if there are certain things that will
remain the same, I am beyond eager to see what
Gabriel ends up doing. Yeah, I have nothing but agreement

(40:32):
on this. Yeah, We've seen him in a lot of
different roles kind of just like this put upon leader,
a husband, a father, kind of patrol guy, a council person,
a brother, an uncle if you want to kind of
in terms of his relationship with Ellie and you know,

(40:52):
however you want to categorize that relationship, uncle would be
the shorthand for it, right. But we've seen a lot
of small moments of him interacting and he's absolutely crushed
it every time. So it's incredibly believable. There's just a
lot of truth to his performances and he's great, no notes,

(41:13):
But on Gabriel Luna here, truly he.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Did not dial it in even a little bit. If
he was in a scene for ten seconds, he was
in that scene and owned every ten seconds, every ten
like every yeah, every ten seconds. So I just wanted
to give him his flowers because I felt like we
hadn't done that up to this point, and I felt
I was starting to feel a little bit about it.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
So great.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah, and I know that this is this is nitpicky
comment number one, But I understand that stand in quote
actors are used in lieu of big name actors. But
you can tell that the manned on the table is
not Pedro Pascal because his hands are completely different than Pager's.

(41:59):
I'm a hand so I know what Pedro's hands look
like and they are Oh god, please don't be mad
at me. People, they are not attractive to me. And
the guy who was on the table, supposedly being Joel,
his hands were very attractive. And I was like, it's
just it's an I understand because they don't want to

(42:20):
pay tr Yeah, they don't want to pay Pedro to
just be covered up for a minute worth of time.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
And that's that I get it.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
But it's just irritating, Like and when I remember when
I learned about that as a kid, where it was like, yeah,
if you're looking at the back of an actor in
like a dialogue scene and the front of another one,
the person that they're talking to is likely not the
actual actor.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
It's just to stand in.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
And if I was an actor, I'd be like, get
your fucking ass in this scene because you and I
have established a rapport and a chemistry. I don't know
who this random number fucking seventeen dude is, get your
ass in there right now.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
In fairness, some shows sometimes some actors insist on being there, Yes,
but not all, And that's what I'm talking I know.
I would say, like, just just to throw it back
to what we were talking about Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul.
They are all there. Yes, that is a show where
that like everyone was expected to live in the roles

(43:23):
as required, even if they're only being talked to. So
good they made that. That was like a kind of
a decree, not even a decree. Everybody on the show
just agreed that this is special and we should continue
continue to do it because that's what makes the show special.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
So yeah, and I love that, And that makes me
feel so much better whenever we rewatch rewatch Breaking Bad,
Better Call Sault, because it just makes it makes a
difference to like how I am in the story and
how present I am, and how how much belief I'm
going into it with. And as soon as I saw
this guy's hands, who is like, yeah, it's not Pedro.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
The funniest thing ever is that I've heard this a
number of times from different actors, and I don't know
if it's true here, but say that they are like
an actor is in a thing and they have to
do like a sex scene or nudity, but they're like,
we're going to use a double. It is incumbent upon

(44:22):
the actor to choose who they like, so they will
get like if it's like, we're going to see this
person's ass, right, what the actor will receive is basically
just a gallery of asses that they have to choose from.
And they're like, I don't like that ass. I like
this ass, I like that ass. I don't like that ass. Right,

(44:44):
So you have to wonder it's like, was Pedro in
charge of choosing his hand double? Probably not no. But
when it comes to the the perception of a person,
at least as it relates to like a nude scene,
they're like, I want this but to look good. It's
not going to be my butt, but it needs to
represent me. Well, oh for sure.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
I mean going back to Game of Thrones in Circe,
there's a scene where she has to walk nude through
the streets of King's Landing. Yes, and that was a
body double, that was not her. She had the choice,
like many choices. Yeah, it's crazy, right, Yeah, And I

(45:29):
understand that when it comes to nudity. I understand that
because if you are like you reserve the right always
forever to consent where and what of your body you
are showing one hundred percent. And if there are people
just lined up to be like, let me be a body,
let me be, let me be some booty, Like I'm

(45:49):
ready to go. I'm comfortable doing this, then let those
people do it. But this was, you know, just like
such a small scene that I'm just like, oh my god.
He couldn't just lay on the table for ten minutes.
But he was covered up. We didn't see anything. So
I get it. They're not going to pay someone that
much money to do nothing.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yeah, so that's a whole setup. That's a whole setup.
You're at least paying him a half day rate, if
not a whole day rate, you know, So and that
that adds up. Oh I know, I know.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
And I said ten minutes flippantly because the scene as
a whole, which was probably even like four minutes, but
that was, like you said, at least half a day
and who knows how long. So whatever, But like I said, nitpicky.
So to finish this scene, the they zoom out on

(46:35):
Joel and Tommy and we see the heavy bloodstains by
Joel's head and his knee, but it also reveals more
of the dead and the cost of what the last
twenty four hours has been on Jackson and its people.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, and it is just a whole room. It's devastating. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, I'm continuing into the next section because these are
a lot of these sections are small, so I kind
of doubled us up in certain areas. But we're in
the hospital now and there is chaos everywhere. We hear
babies crying and people are bleeding and suffering. And I
quick little note that this is a very fine looking,
working hospital and much larger than I expected it to be.

(47:18):
But I understand with the size of Jackson that has
stands to reason something like this or a place like
this would have a very good working medical center.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah for the billionaires, Well yes, I mean in the
previous life, you know, it would have they would want
to have the highest quality care just in terms of
like based on the location of this place right the
next nearest hospital back in when things were in the
before times, probably like a helicopter ride away, So you

(47:47):
would want to have some good care in town. Oh no,
I agree with that. The size.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
I commented on the size, but I think I mean
the way that it's run, like it seemed to have
enough staff, enough like clean beds, clean Lennon's lights, electricity,
like this is what the Saint Louis Hospital should have
been operating at to even consider making a quote unquote
cure from Ellie's immunity, but they weren't. I mean, they

(48:18):
were literally just working off of fucking generators and shit,
so they were still stuck in two thousand and three
or whatever. But yeah, this this hospital was definitely impressive.
And I know that I should be paying attention to
like the suffering of Jackson's people, and I'm not doing that,
but you know what I mean, I just needed to.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
But you're like, wow, this is I could see Noah
Wiley working here. This is crazy doctor Carter from ER.
It's funny, you could say. I mean, I said Noah Wiley,
and I was thinking more of like, he's on that
show The Pit now, which I haven't watched I probably won't,
but I know that that's you know, people like him
from me r too, And I didn't even realize that

(48:55):
that was both applicable for both. You know, you could
be a no Wiley fan now or then.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
No, my brain immediately went to Er because I watched
all fifteen seasons of that back in the day. But
I started The Pit and then some gross medical shit
happened halfway through while I was eating, so I had
to stop it and I was like, I'll come back
to it, and I forgot so I will Noah Wiley
or a gem anyway, So we see Ellie wrapped. Her

(49:22):
chest is wrapped in some sort of gauze and probably
probably not compression, but still it's being tended to, and
there is a tube running out of her right side,
obviously from her collapsed lung, and she's wheezing but seemingly asleep,
like a fitful sleep. But she wakes up and someone

(49:45):
immediately is by her side, trying to calm her down.
But Ellie immediately starts crying, like tears start streaming almost instantly,
and she sits up and begins to scream. She's staring
ahead of her at something we cannot see, and it's
something that the others can't see either, because it turns
out that what she is seeing is Joel lying on

(50:05):
the floor of the Chileet Abby knelt beside him and
stabbing him with the severed golf club into his neck. Again,
I just want to talk about Bella Ramsey's scream here.
It is piercing and guttural and never ending. She is
just experiencing this trauma in real time over and over again,
presumably over and over again, especially right now. And the

(50:28):
acting that Bella put into this moment was heartbreaking. It
was utterly gut wrenching, and it gave me chills in.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
The very worst way. So hats off to you, Bella.
You got to imagine that the situation was we saw
Ellie on horseback. Obviously in the aftermass, she was awake,
ye awake, but probably most likely in shock from multiple things.
So really the last clear memory that Ellie has is

(51:05):
of that moment. Yeah, and so to wake up and
just and be thrown back into that, Bella Rampsey put
everything on screen, Yes, everything there for us. It was
they did. It was very very emotional.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
It was, and it was a haunting way to really
this episode started very dark, and understand because they couldn't
just skip ahead or you know what they inevitably do
with the three months later, which we're going to get
too shortly. But someone in that moment comes to hold
Ellie back and calls her by her name, but it's

(51:43):
useless because she's completely lost to the trauma that's gripped her.
And they inject her ivy with some sort of solution,
and the scene concludes and her shrieks begin to fade
as they are putting her back to sleep. So this
level of despair I'm going to talk about this, This
is on par and believable for Ellie's loss of Joel

(52:06):
and the trauma that she experienced by witnessing the end
of that. And this is something, while hard for us
as the audience to go through, this is something that
I always wanted in the game. And people, if you're listening,
you're like, oh my god, Jack, you're sick. You just
do you want to feed off the angst and the misery.

(52:27):
It's not about that. Like grief has to be in
the daylight. Sometimes you have to see the visceral reaction
of someone who has lost so much. And if you
don't like seeing that, I understand it's human. We don't
want to see the suffering of other humans, or at

(52:47):
least we shouldn't want to. But if you've been through
something traumatic, and I would wager the majority of us
have by the time you get to a certain age,
maybe not quite this traumatic like murdery, but that's not
I mean again, to put my own life in this
like there were three people and my family murdered back

(53:09):
in the nineties. I didn't see it, but I saw
the aftermath and I experienced the aftermath, and it's like,
there is there's a precedence set when things are so
bad and so hard and the loss is so monumental
that to not feel alone in that grief helps sometimes. Yeah,

(53:31):
And this was what was missing from part two the game,
but they did these changes here in the show, and
I'm like, yes, like this is something I can relate to,
I can identify with, and that helps. It helps me
process because it makes me feel less alone in how
sad and heartbroken I am obviously very different levels. But anyway,

(53:51):
I just needed to say that.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
That's to have a collapsed lung almost certainly indicates broken ribs.
Oh sure. And while I've never had that, my understanding
of it is it's just constant pain because every movement
you make, you generally you lift your arm, your upper
body moves, you turn, your upper body moves, and to

(54:16):
sit up and scream and scream with the knowledge of this,
with that knowledge is that she has like transcended physical pain. Yeah,
in this moment, and that is just it's wild to
watch Yeah, it really is.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
I've never knock on wood, I've never broken ribs, but
I have bruised ribs, and that shit has hurt for months.
And I remember the first time I sneezed. After it happened,
I thought I was literally going to collapse on the floor.
So to scream the way that she did with the
injuries we know that she had. She this was like

(54:58):
a complete outer body experience. She would that Ellie was
experiencing and that we got to witness and it was
not easy at all, not at all.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yeah, so here's something worth noting up until this point
in the show. We cut to credits after that, after
Ellie is sedated and falls back asleep, and then we
go to credits. So what a powerful cold open. This
is the first time, as far as I can tell,
in the history of the show that we have a

(55:29):
slightly modified title sequence. Yeah, and hopefully you're not a
person who hits the skip credits button if you're watching digitally.
But they have removed Joel from the final there's a
you know, right at the end there they have Joel
and Ellie kind of appear from the fungus walking side

(55:50):
by side. Joel is no longer there, but his my
celium root reflection kind of persists. So it's just a
very interesting, a small but I think impactful change. Yeah,
do you have any you have any thoughts on that?
You know, it's it was sad. That me sad when

(56:13):
I watched when I saw it, and then noticing other
people noticing it, you were also just put a bunch
of crying face emojis. I was like, Oh, everybody's feeling
this very acutely. Yeah, it was. It was just it
was very sad.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
But I like how they didn't remove his you brought
up the myceelium root like that is still present there
and unchanging, and I think that that it's a grounding
thing for people to be like, even if this person
is gone, like their memory, their love, their legacy remains,
like that is permanent. So I'm glad that they did

(56:49):
it the way that they did. And maybe they was
that intentional to leave that part in there, like where
the jol fungus grew out of.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Who knows, but I'm going to read into it. We're
going to read into it and we're going to talk
about it with y'all, and that's what we did. So Yeah,
I'm hoping it seems like a very intentional thing, if
I had to take a guess, because they're going back
to the people who did the credit sequence and they're like, Okay,
what do we do? And I'm sure they had some
ideas of their own. It seems like a very collaborative process,

(57:19):
at least from the outside looking in. So there's that. Yeah,
we also get at this after credits finish, we get
boom three months later. Is this the first time the
show has done this three months jump just any time period? Well,
we did the five years later. Oh okay, so okay

(57:39):
that makes total sense. So yeah, first episode we get
up boom five years later, and then a little bit
into season two we get like a title card that
lets us know how much time has passed. Three months. Okay,
Jackson continues its rebuild, and we knew that this would
be a lengthy process, just based on the fires and
the damage and all this stuff. Is working on a

(58:01):
building when Jesse offers to take over, yet let the
young'ins work now, just right here, it's worth noting that
I turned to you and I said, Captain America over here. Yeah,
just apropos of something later he did have a very

(58:23):
cool Captain America moment here. Sure, Tommy smiles as he
watches Jesse hit the post on the head. With each hit,
he's we're driving stakes, kind of building these foundations.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Yeah, it was good to see Tommy smile in this
moment because I know for Tommy three months have passed
in Jackson, but I know for us it's only been
about four minutes from his grief to Ellie's trauma to now,
so our brains can't quite process that fast.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
So it was at first I was like, oh.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
God, he's smiling, and then I was like, oh no,
it's been three months for him. So it's just one
of those things where time jumps in TV shows and
timelines versus the comprehension of what we as an audience
can understand is can get a little wonky. Do you
ever feel that because I felt that here where I

(59:19):
was like, we just went from Tommy crying and heartbroken
and washing his dead brother and Ellie experiencing the most
pain of her life physical, emotional and emotional, to let's
rebuild Jackson.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Like it was a little dissonant for me. I am
a person who first to be told that time has elapsed.
Some shows just give you the inference and you might
hear a character offhandedly saying, oh, it's been three months.
You know. Yeah, I don't want that, Like, use the

(59:56):
tools and techniques of filmmaking to put a title up
there that tells me that the time has elapsed. Don't
do a cross dissolve. I don't want that, you know. So, yes,
for us, it was a very short amount of time.
But also I understood like it automatically helps me recalibrate,
like I'm going to be meeting slightly different people if

(01:00:17):
I see that time has elapsed. And so for me,
that wasn't too much of a problem, Like, Okay, certainly
they're rebuilding, and certainly we take these small moments in
stride as something. You know, these just tiny bursts of
joy as we can get them, I think. And again,
Gabriel Luna in this small scene, just this little smile.

(01:00:38):
I'm like, this dude, killing it, killing it. Understands the assignment. Yeah, okay.
So we are back inside the hospital and it turns
out that it is released day for Ellie. So she's
been in the hospital for three months. That's not awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
I want to talk about that is that normal, because again,
we can only surmise that a collapsed lung slash broken
ribs are extremely serious. They I mean they are. But
was there more going on with her than maybe we realized?
Because I mean I even went to Google and I'm like,

(01:01:18):
howmuch how long would you be in the hospital with
a broken rib and a collapse lung? And the average
was just kind of like two to three weeks and
this has been like three months. So I'm like, what
do we think something else was going on? Or do
we think that because we are in a post apocalypse
they might not have the tools and supplies to heal

(01:01:39):
her as quickly.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
I think it's probably the latter, okay, where all they
can do is it's just draining, right, Yeah, And so
I don't know. Again, I'm I'm not a doctor on
this show. I'm a doctor on the other show that
we do, but not on this one. And if you
were like, we got to fix this collapse long, I'm like,

(01:02:02):
what do we do? Doc, I'd be like, I don't know, right,
assuming there's probably one or two medical professionals there, but
maybe they don't have the tools, maybe they don't have
the technology. Maybe that that piece of equipment is broken,
So then what is it? Is it? Maybe it's three
months of bed rest, right, Yeah, I don't know. And

(01:02:23):
again it's there's a broken rib situation, and that is
little as I understand it. The how they fix broken
ribs is just be still. It's like when you break
a toe. It's like, you know, they'll they'll bandit you up,
but they're not resetting a broken rib. That's more dangerous

(01:02:44):
than what's happening inside your body. You know it is.
But I also think that there are severe levels of that.
And if a brig, if a break, if a rib
is completely severed in half, they have to do surgery
and then you're going to have metal plates to reconnect everything. Yeah,
so much.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
That is the only thing that maybe makes sense for
why she was in there so long that her ribs
were completely broken in.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Half and she needed some possive surgery. Yeah, possible that
it's completely broken punctured lung, all that stuff. It's so
three months. Yeah, I would buy I buy it just
based on like the severity of the injury, Yeah, and
then the fact that they might be lacking either the

(01:03:34):
talent or equipment to properly fix this situation. Okay, so
I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back later, you know,
maybe get punched in the rib like that side again
and maybe that comes up.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
That's just the thing that I always keep in mind.
I'm like, okay, what side was it, Let's note that down.
Let's not ceck down.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Well, remember when she's training with Jesse, when we talk
about that, he forces her to punch more and and only.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
With her right arm.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
She's like, that hurts more and he's like, yeah, that's
the fucking point.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Keep going yep. So it's just they've noted that now,
you know. Again, it's all just worth like, okay, good, good, good, good,
right side, right side. Let's see. So we have a
doctor come in and confirmed that Ellie's pain is at zero,
and I kind of like this doctor he was he
was fun. Yeah, it was a nice interaction. And her PFT,

(01:04:32):
which is a pulmonary function test, and that is basically
allows you to evaluate how well your lungs are working,
lung capacity, airflow, oxygen, carbon dioxide, all this stuff. It's
the thing that she blew into. Her lungs are shockingly good.
And then she just has to see one more person
before she's free to go. And I think you and

(01:04:54):
I called this at the exact same time, where like, oh,
this is the mental evaluation and Gail Gail walks in.
Ellie's attitude switches quickly with Gail because she understands seemingly
that this final test is the last step but also
the hardest step of the process.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Yeah, and I think that this is where we realized
Ellie was going to start lying her ass off and
faking her way through everything from this point on in
this episode. So it wasn't a surprise that Gail picked
up on this immediately, and it wasn't a surprise that
Ellie switched into this method of just saying what she

(01:05:36):
needed to say to get the fuck out.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Yep. Yeah, yeah, you see it on the face immediately.
Oh yeah. So it was just interesting. There was like
a little bit of disappointment, a little bit of like, uh,
you know, one of those. So it's it's fun though, Yep.
Ellie literally just wants to leave. She we get the

(01:05:59):
same of restlessness from her. She's been there for too long.
She misses Joel. He meant a lot to her, and
so yes, she is upset and sad and these are
all things that she's saying, But again, maybe we're not
seeing it on the face right. Gail asks and is
more curious about the argument with Joel on New Year's Eve.

(01:06:21):
Ellie recounts that the fight was the last conversation her
and Joel shared. She got home afterwards, he was on
the porch and she should have, could have, would have,
but didn't. Ellie regrets not talking to him, but she
regurgitates some therapy speak that our last moments with someone
shouldn't define the entire time you spend with someone, and

(01:06:44):
then Gail shares her final moment with Joel with Joel's
admittance that he wronged Ellie, but what he shared I
saved her ultimately didn't make a lot of sense to Gail.
Ellie plays this off that he saved her plenty of
times and has no clue what he might have meant
by that, but she doesn't feel wronged. And then she

(01:07:07):
sighs and says how she wishes she could have let
him off the hook for whatever he was talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Gail, as we mentioned a couple literally a minute ago,
doesn't believe a single ie of what nonsense is coming
out of Ellie's mouth, but I just wanted to re
I guess question our listeners, like, did you believe Ellie
in this moment, because I'm curious to know if anybody
at home was like, oh wow, yeah, no, she's doing great,

(01:07:36):
she's ready to go, she's well on her way, so
please write in and let us know she's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Well on her way. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
But in that same vein, I felt that Bella Ramsey
overacted here intentionally. Of course, now we've kind of slammed
Bella Ramsey a little bit for overacting and just overdo
it with some of the attitude in this Out of
the Other in part of season one and certainly an

(01:08:05):
episode one of season two. But I feel that it
was very intentional in this moment, which is why it works,
because Ellie is trying, albeit failing, to shroud her true
heartbreak and the rage over what's happened, and Gail knows that,
but she's ultimately powerless to do any fucking thing about it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Yes, my favorite thing to see is when an actor
who we know is capable literally six to eight minutes
earlier in the show, not even three minutes earlier in
the show, you're like, oh my god, I'm I'm bawling
here right when the direction is act bad. Yeah. So

(01:08:48):
it's like, if you've ever seen it like an actor
in a movie, then do a stage performance and be
terrible on stage. I think that's maybe one of the
funniest things ever. And I did have a little bit
of a chuckle here during this interaction because Catherine O'Hara
is so good, Yeah, at just tiny face movements, and

(01:09:09):
you're like, she is not buying this shit at all. No,
not saying anything, but also not buying it. It's a
wonderful interplay between these two actors. I love it is.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
And we are going to talk more about Gail throughout
this episode, but she is my favorite character thus far,
even though she's incredibly flawed. I think it's intentional, but
she is my favorite person on this show thus far. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Ellie continues to do good according to Gail, with her
I guess I'll have to let myself off the hook
for that, meaning this regret, this potential regret that she
has with Joel. So Gail and Ellie pingpong back and
forth here about how if everyone was as put together
as Ellie, she would never get her weed and booze,

(01:09:57):
which I just think is so good, and then Ellie
notes that there are plenty of fucked up people in
this town. Gail calls her on her shit by saying,
but not you. Though. Ellie is released after this, because really,
what else can Gail do? She seemingly passed the test.

(01:10:20):
As she holds her head high and walks out the
door and down to the hallways, the light changes her.
Her smirk and smile smile falters, and she ends up
kind of bathed in shadows. This was I mean, I
think we should probably talk about this. This was a
wonder kind of As Ellie walks out of this room

(01:10:41):
and is going down the hallway, she's being flanked and
passed by other patients and doctors and just people going
about their business, and it just holds on her face
and the change of the light, the change of seemingly
her environment, and the change of her I was like,
this is I have no notes, was perfectly executed.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Oh yeah, the mask has completely fallen the moment, yeah,
like ten five seconds after she left that room, and
as she approaches the intermittent lighting in the hospital and
then gets to the darkest part, like it is just
like I said in the last episode the gloves are
all for Ellie and the mask has fallen.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Yeah, it was again, I say a lot of my
favorite things, but you know, when I see them in
concurrently like this, this is the marriage. This is the
power of visual storytelling when the all of the production
can tell you exactly what is happening to the character
without saying a word, and the show is actually really

(01:11:44):
good at this. I will always give the show its
flowers for this kind of metaphor, with the filmmaking that
mirrors our characters, it's really really well done.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Yeah, I agree, I completely agree. But from here we
are moving to Joel's home, and at first we are
greeted with the Miller mailbox and an abundance of flowers,
and it looks like there's some live flowers placed recently
amidst the dead bouquets that are lying outside of the

(01:12:17):
picket fence or attached to the picket fence, And I
just it was a funny thought to me to think
that mail was delivered to mailboxes in Jackson, and I
don't think that that was the case. I think it
was just more of the everyday normal ritual of people
owning a home and putting their name on a box

(01:12:38):
to be like, this is my house, you know, But
I just I always liked that touch and didn't want
to just gloss over it. So there are notes and
candles left behind, along with all the other flowers that
I just mentioned. And Jackson appears to have genuinely cared
for Joel. He was a very well known presence. But

(01:12:59):
Ellie stands out side of his house in the driveway,
just staring on at first, and we see the tree
is in full bloom and everything in spring has sprung.
But we know that there's no life living behind the
doors and the windows of this particular home, and Ellie
also knows this from there. Ellie enters the house and

(01:13:20):
we see his dining room directly across from the living space,
which is the vantage point that we are greeted from
the angle that it was shot, and the owl mug
is on the dinner table, And this is a missible thing,
but it's essential for gamers to note. And I will
admit that the first time I watched episode three, I
did not see the owl mug in his house, and

(01:13:42):
that pissed me off. There's also another mug on a
coffee table closer to us by a leather couch. There's
a cup on the coffee table with pens, a highlighter,
an end table with a few books and a pair
of glasses. There are built in bookshelves behind the couch
that are full of books, and Joel has what appears
to be a great collection and my book Love and

(01:14:04):
Heart would love to see it, but twas not to be.
And there's a lot of dust on the wooden floors.
There's a lot of dust pretty much everywhere here, which
is another sign of time passing. And Ellie looks from
left to right but continues walking throughout the home. And
as she does this, we see some paintings on the
wall and they seem American south West. American Northwest is

(01:14:28):
kind of the vibe that Joel was going for. Here
there's a tall gold well not real gold, but like
a tall golden looking lamp, and a carved wooden owl
by a clock, one of the old style clocks. That's
it's like the top of what's this Codsworth from.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
Beauty the Beast?

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love anytime I see though, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Like an excellent an excellent visual.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
Yet, so Ellie rounds a corner and then stops and
she just kind of focuses on this dark brown door
ahead of her. But first she enters what we see
was her former bedroom when she lived in the house
with Joel before moving to the garage, and it looks
as though it was left exactly as she had left it,

(01:15:16):
presumably There's lots of art around this place. On the
walls we see astronauts, posters, drawings of moths, random girls,
a deer, and I. There's a Nirvana poster which is
the smiley with the exes for eyes, some left of
her clothes and blankets, a giant dice on her end table,
a baseball and a yo yo, some throw pillows, and

(01:15:38):
then a bedframe with no bed and that's kind of
all I can see in that space before Ellie glances
away and turns back towards the door, which we know
ultimately is Joel's bedroom. And Ellie is sad here. Her
eyes are no longer hardened, they just look sad. As
we are inside of Joel's bedroom now, and there are

(01:16:00):
two small work branches at first, one by his bathroom
and one by his closet, and one has a stool
with a flannel draped on it on the back of it,
and the other has some sort of leather like it
actually looked like a tiny chair, which made me laugh.
I was like, that's a tiny chair for a dude.
Somethings some things to know. So there's a carved wooden

(01:16:21):
horse in progress, toolboxes, compartment storage for screws, bolts, odds
and ends, light, magnifying glass, and so much more. I
can't really make it all out. I try to. This
is a thing that we do on Wayfair and Strangers,
but we can get a lot closer in those moments
because we can control where the character walks, which is nice.
But anyway, there's a painting of a man riding aborse

(01:16:45):
just above the carved horse, which I believe was probably
the inspiration for his carving. And I love that there's
a lasso rope on the wall working as Decur and Joel.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
I love your style.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
Ellie enters even farther into the room, and her physical
frame she's partially hunched, her steps are slow. Everything about
this is just morose and sad. But we see what
she sees now, which is a much bigger workbench, And
on this workbench is a radio, a partially carved mallard

(01:17:20):
and a partially carved owl, a wooden mallet, all sorts
of carving tools grouped together, a sander of some sort,
and then the tables just covered with wood shavings everywhere.
So he was in the middle of these projects, fully
expecting to come home to them and never did. And
that's one of the hardest things I think when it

(01:17:41):
comes to moments like this and sudden death, it's just
all of this is left behind and it becomes like
a still life and it's so heartbreaking, which is why
I felt it was important to talk about this. So
Ellie looks on at this quietly, but turns towards Joel's
bed and there is a red box sitting on top
of it, and she takes the lid off, and inside

(01:18:03):
we see Joel's watch laying on top of a blue scarf,
but beneath that is where his revolver is hidden. And
she pushes aside the watch, and pushes aside the scarf
and grabs only the gun. And this is where I'm
going to not be people's favorite podcaster because I can't
fucking stand. I can't fucking stand that Ellie didn't even

(01:18:28):
acknowledge the watch and just pushed it aside and left
it behind. This is so I cannot express to everyone
listening who is just a show watcher. This is so
anti Last of Us that it felt like an actual
fucking slap in the face.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
And this goes back to the beginning of the.

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
Show when I heard reels from the official Last of
Us podcast, and in particular Craig was talking about why
this happened in the show and how Ellie initially and
innately reaches for the gun because violence is the tether
that she shares with Joel. It was violence that saved her,

(01:19:05):
it was violence that saved him, It was violence that
brought together and their common ground is violence, and the
fact that they do not give two fucks about the
actual heart of Joel and Ellie, which was not violence,
it was love and a bond, and instead try to
just shove this concept down our throat. Craig Mason, I'm

(01:19:29):
starting to lose the intro in Craig We Trust motto
because what I feel that he has this strange hang
up with Ellie being feral and this this moment right
here and his comments on his podcast. Then when Gail
talks about how Joel and Ellie were two people on

(01:19:51):
the same path together already essentially like he's doubling down
that Ellie was this disturbed, feral teenage girl, and that
is so far from the fucking truth of who Ellie was.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
And we have received.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
You know, I posted this thing on the Stories when
I heard that snippet from the official Last of Us podcast,
I reshared it and I said, not acknowledging the watch
and I'm paraphrasing, but not acknowledging the watch.

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
Was a big mistake.

Speaker 1 (01:20:22):
And most everyone agreed with what I said, except for
one person who was just like, the watch mattered in
the game, not the show. But that's my fucking point.
It should have mattered in the show. And I'm upset
for several levels because I think the message, the message
behind the watch is lost to people, and I think

(01:20:46):
it's lost to Craig in the show based off of
what he talked about. And this is probably going to
be the longest tangent in our show notes today, So
thank you for staying with me. But I understand and
I fully acknowledged that the watch was Joel's physical tether
and connection to his daughter Sarah, but for Ellie that

(01:21:09):
didn't matter. Like it's not that Sarah didn't matter, but
she never knew her. She was dead long before she
was born and before she ever met Joel. I'm not
trying to force something. I'm not trying to force a
square peg to a fucking circle. Like they had no
connection beyond Joel being their father figure or dad directly.

(01:21:29):
And this is where my own experience will come into play.
And if people get tired of this, oh fucking well.
When my dad died, I wore his watch for about
the first year after he passed because it made me
feel closer to him. I didn't give a shit about
the watch that he wore every day of his life.

(01:21:50):
I never stopped and said, hey, Dad, what's the significance
of your watch? I know you wear it every day,
it must mean something to you. No, he wore it
every day because it was a fucking watch that told
him time and it was reliable. It was like a
fucking TIMEX that cost him fifteen dollars like twenty five
years ago or whatever. It had no significant value to him,

(01:22:12):
but he wore it every single day, so much so
that the shape of the watch actually left a divot
in his wrist because he would work like he my
dad worked a labor a laborious job, and every time
he would like bend his hand back to do something,
or because he was a painter, like it would it

(01:22:33):
just created that divot on his wrist. So that watch
was so important to me to get because it could
have gone to my sister. But for me, I was like,
I need that connection to my dad. This is something
that he wore on his person for years, upon you, decades,
and that is what the tether is, the physical connection.

(01:22:54):
And Ellie should have grabbed that fucking watch because even
though she had no connection to Sarah, that is the
watch that Joel wore every single day of his life
for twenty five fucking years. And for her to just
shove that aside and not give two fucks about it
was wrong. And I'm very and if you disagree with me,
I genuinely I mean this with all respect, I don't

(01:23:15):
care because I know the experience that I went through
and a watch, an object makes a fucking difference.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
And maybe for you it's not a watch.

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
Maybe it's a necklace, maybe it's a bracelet, maybe it's
a ring from your mother. Maybe it's whatever, there is
still something that we have to hold on to sometimes,
and the gun being the violent tendril to Joel was bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
It was fucking bullshit.

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
And I'm really really starting, like I said, I'm really
starting to lose hope that Craig truly understands what The
Last of Us is about and always was about, because
he's just predicating everything on violence, and that breaks my heart.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
I'm gonna gently push back even though you don't care
what I'm about to say. The watch doesn't mean anything yet,
is what I am hopeful of. One of the reasons
why I don't listen to the official Anything podcasts. I

(01:24:17):
don't either, It's just forced upon me. Yeah, But I mean, realistically,
there are so many behind the scenes we have television
shows that are about you know, like Talking Dead came
immediately after Walking Dead. It's like it's just marketing. And
so my thought is they're going to say whatever is

(01:24:39):
going to get them the most engagement, whether or not
it's true, right, they could contradict themselves in three episodes
from now, and so I'm just not super interested in
even if Craig is saying this now, it's really just
a play of like, how can we get the most
people to click and maybe be outright by the thing

(01:25:00):
that I'm about to say right now, right, that's one
hundred percent what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:25:05):
So you're not pushing back on what I said, you're
pushing back that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:09):
I think that my hope. I'll say that I have
no information. This is just me hoping that the watch
will play a role, just at a different point in
the story. I do hope for that. Yeah, I know
that this is where if you're a game player, that
this is where the watch has its moment of true significance.

(01:25:36):
But they've already changed so much and moved pieces around
in what I believe are interesting ways that I think
that this will come back, or at the very least
that's what I hope. I hope so too.

Speaker 1 (01:25:54):
But that's what I mean by I'm losing faith a
little bit in that the people who are running this
show know what they're actually doing and whether it's for
clicks or just outrage on little podcasts like the last cast,
I don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
I'm still going to.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
Vent about this because it was so abrupt that I
was like, oh my god, she's not grabbing the watch,
Like even if you want to take it to the
most literal sense of this was Joel's watch.

Speaker 2 (01:26:25):
He wore it every day.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
I need this close to my person, and it just,
oh god, it pisses me off. It pisses me off
because it breaks my heart. And it's like, this is
such an easy thing to incorporate and not have everything
be so fucking feral and the connection to Joel be
one of just violence and anger and bloodshed and pain

(01:26:48):
because that's not what her relationship was with him. And hopefully,
like you said, hopefully the rest of the season unrings
that bell a little bit. But I'm not confident in that,
or I'm not as confident in that as I once was.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
My Again, i don't know where they're going to take
this version of the story because it's already like this
feels pivotal as it released the game. So I'll just
say I'll say two things. One in terms of how
it relates to the story that we are watching unfold now,
that watch also seems crucial in a Tommy perspective. It

(01:27:29):
does right. It was highlighted in that opening sequence whereas
we see the watch, we see the woman, we see Tommy.
Tommy notices the watch they're all in close proximity. We
have to imagine that it was Tommy. I don't even know,
but hopefully it was Tommy that put that box there
on the bed in the first place. Yeah, for Ellie.

(01:27:51):
For Ellie, those were and they were arranged in I
think Tommy arranged it in order of importance, gun scarf
to keep you warm, this very important object in Joel's life,
and she chose to disregard the first two things and
go for this thing. I think there is if we're

(01:28:14):
divorcing this again as much as we can from the
source material, that's a very significant choice to make for
a character in anything. It doesn't have to be in
the Last of Us. But I'm looking at the pieces
they're setting up, the choices that everybody's making, I'm like, oh,
it's different, it's interesting. I hope there's a payoff. Okay, Yeah,

(01:28:38):
And that's all. And then just a small other thing
I will say is that this game, also the game itself.
The Last of Us Part two was mired in a
little bit of controversy as well, from a marketing versus
delivery situation, which we'll talk about that on our Patreon

(01:28:58):
in the future. Yeah, it hit you acutely. Yes I did.
I didn't pay too much attention to the marketing that
surrounded the game versus what the final product was, but
you did, and so that that is Also it's just
funny to see that a little bit of parallels between
the real life of the show and the real life

(01:29:20):
of the game. Sure, so that's all I'm not, you know,
just something to consider. You know, I totally understand if
you're like, Craig might be losing the plot a little
bit here, but also I need a few more episodes
to decide that for myself. That's fair enough.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
I just but I wanted to say it and prove
me wrong, like that's so be wonderful. I want the
show to prove me wrong. But if they're saying this
shit on the podcast and then they're going to fucking
retroactively backpedal again like they did in the fucking game
and all that shit, like that's just a bad look

(01:29:58):
it really, it's like, why why are we doing this?

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
Like would you like it to be clear? I don't
like that that's the marketing approach.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
But if they can't talk about it because of spoilers,
then I understand it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
But then just don't.

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
Don't give some bullshit speech about how the connectivity with
Joel or you know, the thing that they had as
their solid ground was violence.

Speaker 2 (01:30:25):
Like that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
You could have omitted that comment by just saying, you know,
the watch will play a role later on.

Speaker 2 (01:30:31):
That's not a fucking spoiler.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
It's just right now, Ellie is so hyper focused on
getting revenge that the Revolver, Joel's Revolver specifically, is where
her intentions and priorities lie. But if that were the case,
she still should have just grabbed the watch and tossed
it in her bag. That's all, Like, it doesn't have
to be this fucking walk around the park with violence.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
And it was.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
It was like a minute long spiel about that too,
So I'm like, this isn't just some throwaway comment that
Craig is putting out there. He's doubling down. He's talking
about this at length. And then I clicked away really
fast because I was like, I'm done. This is why
I don't listen to this fucking show. Yes, So anyway,
Ellie shoves the unloaded Revolver into the rear waistband of

(01:31:14):
her jeans and then turns around. And now Joel's closet
is directly ahead of her, and this moment is truly
one of the rawlest forms of grief first shown in
the game. So before we get there, it's just this
silly little thing. We talked about heavy stuff. Now let's
talk about silly stuff. The window behind Ellie is open, sure,

(01:31:37):
and wouldn't it or shouldn't it be closed because no
one lives there and hasn't been there for months presumably.
But I can only imagine that Tommy knew Ellie was
getting out of the hospital, probably knew she was going
to go to the house as her first stop. So
did he open up the window to air the house
out a little bit?

Speaker 2 (01:31:56):
Yeah? I mean it just looks cooler when the window's open,
you know, it does. And there is a significance to windows.

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
And things like that in the last of us, just
in a very minor sense, but well not really minor sense,
but we can't talk about that. But it just I
was like a house that has been empty for three
months with the window open would be destroyed. The weather, rain, snow, sleet, wind,
everything would just destroy that bedroom. So I would I

(01:32:23):
like to think that Tommy knew this was going to
be Ellie's first stop, and instead of the house being
like musty and stale, he ventilated things.

Speaker 2 (01:32:34):
Yeah, I have to imagine he's probably coming by just
check up on everything from time to time, maybe just visit,
you know, quote unquote visit his brother's house.

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
Yeah, sure, which also begs the question of like, will
this house be reassigned to someone else or was he
checking on it to make sure everything's okay for Ellie
to potentially move into.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
It's true, it's true.

Speaker 1 (01:32:56):
Yeah, we don't have those answers, so we'll see. But
from there, we're facing the closet again, and Ellie enters
and sees his jacket and she touches it and her mask,
which hasn't really been too present, like she's remained fairly
stoic and not cried or anything throughout this walkthrough, like

(01:33:18):
sad looking but not breaking down. But that fades here
and she brings herself close to the jacket, clings to it,
puts her face into it, and just cries. And there's
a moment where she kind of looks back and looks
up to the neck of the jacket where we can
assume Joel's face would have been, and that part in

(01:33:41):
particular really undid me because you know, what she's seeing
in that moment, Like, you know, we don't have to
close our eyes sometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
To see the people that we've.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
Lost in our mind's eye. I hate that expression, but
that is truly what it is. And beyond that, I
lived this moment in real life. Like all of these
things that happened in the game that I played in
June of twenty twenty, I lived through in April of
twenty twenty. And my dad had this whole row of

(01:34:15):
you know, winter coats, light jackets, sweatshirts, hats, whatever that
he had built this like wooden shelf with hooks and
everything by the washer and dryer in my mom's house
where I used to live, obviously, and you know, one
of the first things I did was just go in
and bury my face into that, because everyone has their

(01:34:38):
own scent, like their own just something that our sense
of smell is like the number one trigger of memory.
And it's true, I think sometimes even without realizing, we
do those things, even if we know it'll hurt us.
But because the memory was sweeter than the pain, you know,

(01:35:01):
so like that was just I'm glad that they kept
that in there. She didn't sniff it in the show,
and that's fine, but she got close to it. And
I'm glad that they had that moment because it was
it was very important to the story and to Ellie's grief. Yes, Unfortunately,
this moment is ruined by Dina calling up for Ellie

(01:35:24):
from down below, and Ellie panics as she tries to
calm herself, and she wipes furiously at her eyes, pushing
the tears away, drying it, you know, drying her eyes
before she heads downstairs. And this is this is another
one of the moments where it irritated me in the game,
and it annoyed the fuck out of me on the show,

(01:35:46):
and it will bother me for all time because especially
with the show, let Ellie fucking grief. Leave this girl
alone to grieve. And Dina knew that Ellie in Joel's
house right now was the first time and the first
opportunity that Ellie had the chance to go there since

(01:36:09):
her injury and her hospital stay, and she could have
just waited outside. There was no fucking need to interrupt whatsoever.
The conversation could have waited an additional ten to twenty
minutes and when Ellie just walked back out the door.
Dina could have been sitting on the porch and been like, hey,
can we talk. I never will understand apart from well,

(01:36:34):
we need to move this story along and this is
too sad and people don't like sad shit, shut up,
like just go oh. I love Dina, but go away't.
I couldn't stand that. I really can't, and I would
be I'd lash out in anger like fully, I'd be like,
you need to fucking leave me alone.

Speaker 2 (01:36:52):
Grief is a very, very slippery slope.

Speaker 1 (01:36:55):
And if you get someone in the midst of the
deepest part part of their grief and you interrupt them,
why now watch out? Yes, seriously, you just need to
let people grieve anyway. This is a quick little note.
The song playing throughout this scene is Unbroken, which is
a song from the Last of Us Part two. They

(01:37:18):
played this song at a wildly different time in the
game compared to.

Speaker 2 (01:37:24):
This moment in.

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
Joel's house, which should be viewed as Joel's funeral. And
I don't really I don't like the placement of this song.

Speaker 2 (01:37:33):
Okay, yeah, just a quick thing about that Dina interruption.
I think it speaks to Ellie not wanting to be
perceived as vulnerable, the quick turn of I gotta no
nobody could see me cry. Yeah, but we could.

Speaker 1 (01:37:50):
We absolutely knew that about her already, which is why
she should have had her moment of vulnerability.

Speaker 2 (01:37:56):
Well, even somebody who she likes a lot, like Dina,
who should be maybe exempt from this hiding of herself.
You know, that's just kind of I noted it, but
I didn't. It doesn't It didn't rub me necessarily the
wrong way like it did with you. I'm just like, okay,
they're just in case we forgot. Ellie is a very

(01:38:21):
internal person. She does not extemporize a lot of her
feelings and stuff like that. So that's all sure for me,
for me. So we're in Joel's house down stairs on
the first floor. Now. Dina is sitting at the table
smiling as Ellie walks around the corner. And the first
thing she asks is when they let you out? And

(01:38:43):
I know that this made you laugh because you thought
it sounded like Ellie was getting out of prison or
something like that. So that was pretty fun. Gail earns
a contentious oh when brought up here, Ellie shares her
appreciate appreciation for Dina stopping by the hospital often while
she was there, though Dina agrees with Ellie that Ellie,

(01:39:06):
who said she likely wouldn't have shown up nearly as much.

Speaker 1 (01:39:10):
Yeah, Ellie is like, thank you for showing up. I
would have done the same for you, but probably not
as much, and Dina's like yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:17):
Yeah, yeah, She's like, you don't need to tell me.
I know. Dina's peace offering of cookies is because she
knows Ellie will be angry about what she's going to
share next. That she lied to Ellie in the hospital
about not knowing anymore from the day of Joel's death,

(01:39:38):
but she does know plenty of useful information about the
people who killed Joel. At this point, Ellie is shaken
and visibly angry that she doesn't give a fuck about
the doctor's orders and that Dina was adhering to about,
you know, not agitating her right that she needed this
time to heal. Dina cost them to time and let

(01:40:01):
them get away, Ellie asserts, but Dina counters with the
amount of funerals the town had for weeks, and that
she would not have had the numbers to chase after
Abby a compelling point of let them get there is
said by Dina. So if you know where someone is headed,
let them get there. Yeah. So this kind of just

(01:40:24):
plays into a little bit of I think strategy that
Dina had, at least for this specific thing, like you could.
I think my reading of that was that she was
trying to think of a very diplomatic reason that Ellie
would understand for her not telling her, and that's what
she came up with, like, let's let them get there, right.
Maybe maybe I read too much, but I enjoyed that

(01:40:44):
quite a bit. There's silence for a moment here before
Dina says I loved him too, you know, with tears
in her eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:40:54):
Yeah, this is exactly what I didn't want to have
happen when mentioning all of the audit of Joel and
Dina's friendship in episode one, because this changes the dynamic
of Dina going with Ellie or choosing to go with
Ellie on this journey by the end of this episode,
not just because she has potentially a thing for Ellie,

(01:41:18):
but because she also loved Joel. It's different motivations, and
maybe the showrunners felt that that would be more believable
than somebody with just a potential crush. I don't know,
but I don't. And there's more instances throughout this episode
of Well I knew Joel too, and it just feels,

(01:41:41):
it feels petty. It pisses me off, like Ellie was
supposed to be the one that had the special relationship
with Joel, not Ellie and Dina and so and so
and this person and that person and everyone just you know,
everyone's just on just such the most wonderful intimate friendship
level with Joel.

Speaker 2 (01:41:58):
Isn't it great? Let's just spread them all around? Stop?
It was not?

Speaker 1 (01:42:04):
It just again, it just annoyed me, and I rolled
my eyes and I think I even said to you,
I was.

Speaker 2 (01:42:10):
Like, what the fuck? Yeah, Well, what I will say is,
and I think this might be true, and you can
correct me if I'm wrong, is that it seems like
Dina is an orphan. We don't like, we don't meet
Dina's parents. It's never brought up. We don't know, but sure,
so there is this theme of Joel stepping in to

(01:42:34):
be a father figure two girls and needs so many
people well I that I don't know about necessarily, Like
there are some people that we see in the council
meeting in a little bit that are like, hey, Joel
was great, but no, right, and so I don't I

(01:42:55):
think I think the special relationship like like, certainly Ellie
is at the top of the list, and maybe Dina
two is just somebody he took on as like I'll
be there for you because you don't have anybody, and
also I can teach you things like construction, like dad stuff. Right, yeah,

(01:43:18):
but I don't like if you asked me if he
had that relationship with, say Jesse, I don't think the
answer is yes. If you asked me if he had
that relationship with who was what was the name of
the patrol lead from episode one, Max or whatever her
name was, Alway's cat. Oh sorry, yeah, Cat, I don't
think the answer is yes.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:43:41):
So that's all I get it. It's a little bit.
We're talking five years, right when since Joel and Ellie
arrived in Jackson post Salt Lake until now. So in
five years they developed a relationship where she was comfortable
enough to say I loved him, which okay, if he

(01:44:03):
was a very attentive and involved parental figure in her life,
then I get that too. But we'll see, we'll see
how it plays out. Ellie does not reply to this.
I loved him too, you know. And in the interim,
Dina slides her top of cookies to Ellie, who takes
one out, eats it, and slouches with approval. This was

(01:44:25):
a wonderful I wanted one of those cookies. That's how
good the acting was. It did look like oatmeal raisin though,
oh well, then never mind, you take it back and
get it away from me. I thought it was maybe
like a lemon cookie or something, which I'd be more
game for. But it was oatmeal. No, thank you. You know,
why would you insult me with these cookies? Yeah, you're

(01:44:47):
just making it worse. So at this point it's go time.
Dina gives the names. We got Manny, Owen, Nora, mel
and the girl with the braid is at Ellie whisper,
repeats Abby and it is scary to hear. We get

(01:45:09):
another Eugene conversation happening here, a story he told Dina
about his time as a firefly.

Speaker 1 (01:45:17):
Okay, yes, and just for anyone keeping Tally at home,
that's three for three episodes, bringing Eugene into the fold.

Speaker 2 (01:45:24):
Eugene is everywhere and yet he is nowhere. Yep, so fascinating.
What a profound impact this man has had on many lives. Yeh.
Small regional factions formed but never joined together, is what
Dina is recounting of this Eugene story. We learn of
the WLF, the Washington Liberation Front out of Seattle, and

(01:45:50):
just let me just throw this out here. Dina is
drawling pretty spot on. She's a gifted artist. We don't
know how small the WLF is, but Dina than they
could be small enough to handle. Only Dina and now
Ellie know about this information, and so Ellie pushes the
cookies towards Dina, and she takes one and asks, what's next?

Speaker 1 (01:46:14):
Yeah, I feel like they are in over their heads
already and they haven't even left. But now we are
still in Jackson, but we are with Tommy, and Tommy
appears to be repairing some sort of chicken wire as
he sees Ellie and Dina, or as he converses with
Ellie and Dina. This is like an in media rez
and he says he needs to think about going after

(01:46:36):
these guys because the town is still recovering. Dina tries
to kiss a little ass here, but or by trying
a new tactic, but it fails as Ellie continues to
hit Tommy with hardcore facts that Joel would have been
halfway to Seattle by the time the sun came up.
Tommy openly disagrees here, saying that Joel would have been

(01:46:56):
halfway to Seattle if it was to say, my life,
meaning to save Tommy's life, but not if he lost someone,
that it would merely break Joel and that would be that.
Now we have Tommy laying claim to Joel with Ellie too,
just like Dina partially did with her.

Speaker 2 (01:47:16):
I loved him too, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:47:18):
So everyone's just trying to like hold onto their version
of Joel and fight for their version of Joel and
be protect and protective of that.

Speaker 2 (01:47:24):
And I understand.

Speaker 1 (01:47:26):
Yeah, I just feel like if anyone has the right,
it is Tommy and Ellie, even though what you said
does make sense, I just that is where my heart
is for the grief of these people. And Tommy says,
like he was my brother, I knew my brother, and
Ellie shouldn't talk to him, meaning Ellie shouldn't talk to

(01:47:46):
Tommy like he didn't know Joel. And he basically says,
if we're going to do this. We have to do
it right. A posse has to be put together. We
have to tell Maria and then hold an official council
meeting and open it up to the entire town. And
Ellie asks, here or I guess, ensures that Tommy will
back her and what she wants, and he says, of

(01:48:08):
course he will, And at this point Tommy stands and
then brings Ellie in for a hug. Here, this to
me felt awkward and out of place. Forced, I think
is the word I'm looking for. It felt like a
forced hug, and it might be my own hang up,
but I didn't feel a lot of compassion between these
two characters in this moment, and I think that that

(01:48:28):
was probably the point, because Ellie is too angry and
mad and Tommy is just trying to keep Ellie safe
and doesn't know how to do that because he didn't
know Ellie the way that Joel knew Ellie.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
Yeah, I think it's probably the correct reading of it
is Ellie is let's go right, and Tommy being the
voice of reason saying that the right way to do
this is this way, not grab fourteen random people and

(01:49:04):
go for a ride. Well, yeah, but I'm talking about
the hug, not oh yeah, yeah, no, And I think
that I think just like just her butting heads with
him in this small way is the reason why she's
being a little bit cold towards him. You know, what
she does not want right now is a hug. What
she wants is fourteen armed men, you know. Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:49:27):
Yeah, he's just placating her and doing the we'll see.
That's like the parent equivalent of we'll see. And it
sucks because I understand both sides. From Tommy's side, I
understand needing the preparation, needing to do it right. But
from Ellie's side, I understand the urgency of we already
wasted so much fucking time.

Speaker 2 (01:49:47):
And thanks Dina. Well yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (01:49:50):
Tommy does get the last word with Dina, and that basically,
if she holds out on him with information again, she
will have quote rendering duty for a month. So I
did a quick Google search, and a rendering plant is
a facility that processes animal byproducts such as fats, bones,

(01:50:11):
and other tissues into valuable products like pet food, animal feed,
and industrial fats and oils. So I understand why Dina
made the face that she made, which was pretty hilarious,
but that duty not one that is well sought after.

Speaker 2 (01:50:29):
I would imagine definitely do not want to be near
the smell of wherever a rendering plant is, because good god.

Speaker 1 (01:50:36):
Yeah, no, oh god, the ick. I couldn't do it.
I would literally just vomit all the time. So Ellie
and Dina are dismissed, but Tommy shares that Jackson buried,
they're dead ten miles south of town, and Ellie replies
with when we are on our way to Seattle, meaning
she will not go to visit Joel's grave until she

(01:50:56):
is on her way to avenge him.

Speaker 2 (01:50:59):
Yeah. Interesting, because ten miles south from where they are
seems like it's out of the way in terms of
heading to Seattle, you know. So it's like an interesting
when we're doing this thing. I'm doing this thing, right,
I'm gonna hear there.

Speaker 1 (01:51:15):
Yeah, I mean, I don't really like that the graveyard
wasn't a part of Jackson, least of all ten fucking
miles south.

Speaker 2 (01:51:23):
I was trying to think of why that might be
the case, too, And I don't have a great reason
other than if you were like a raider or a
traveler and you came across a graveyard that was fresh.
You might search the area for where people were burying bodies,

(01:51:45):
And I feel like ten miles is far enough out
where you could pick the wrong direction and never find Jackson.
It's like a one in four shot cardinal direction. Wise. Yeah,
in the game, there.

Speaker 1 (01:51:58):
Was a cemetery in the fuck in Jackson.

Speaker 2 (01:52:03):
Yeah my only Yeah that so that I can real
estate is at a premium, you know what I'm saying. Sure,
so that is that I get like, oh, we were
protecting our homes with the wall, but we also protect this,
you know, not to be callous, but like it to
a bunch of dead bodies, right, so I think to
honor them correctly, but also keep themselves safe. Ten miles

(01:52:26):
feels like a good distance. But also, yeah, it's a
little inconvenient. It's dangerous to go visit somebody, you know,
to say advice.

Speaker 1 (01:52:34):
It is, And ten miles is not an insignificant ride.
That's probably at least a thirty minute ride on horseback,
maybe even slightly longer depending on how you're taking it.
But yeah, like, my sister lives twelve miles away from us,
and it takes us about twenty seven minutes to drive
to her, so I would say, like, that's like a
forty minute horse ride, and I I yeah, I from

(01:52:58):
a strategy standpoint, that makes but from a personal standpoint
kind of sucks. But I do love Ellie's conviction here,
But I personally couldn't imagine holding back, like holding myself
back from visiting the grave before a decision is made.
But I but in that vein, I understand why she
did it because it's basically her saying to Tommy, I'm

(01:53:20):
going regardless, yeah, of whatever the council says, so I'll
go when I go.

Speaker 2 (01:53:29):
Yeah, and not in so few words. Yeah, that's yeah, well,
well well perceived. So let's take a look at the
Seattle trail. Okay, we cut to something different a little bit.
There is a trail marker here that tells us that
we are on said trail, Seattle Trail, and we cut
to a man with a scarred face, and he whistles

(01:53:53):
to a much larger group of scar faced individuals dressed
in this kind of long leatherish garb with curious symbols
painted on their backs. Kind of looks like a bow,
like a bow and arrow, but then another half bow
kind of going through it. If you can picture that,
it's not the WLF symbol. And these people are clearly

(01:54:18):
not military. So a man and a child walk ahead
of the pack, and he asks the little girl, well,
and we learn that the whistles that we're hearing are
actually codes. The ones we just heard mean no one
is following, all clear, keep moving, So they are being pursued,
or at least on the lookout for being pursued. She

(01:54:41):
passed the test, and he tells her he will teach
her to whistle. They don't know where they're going, but
he told her the reason, and for now that needs
to be enough. The child asks about why she can't
keep us safe, and we learn of a profit here,
one that is Long Day. But isn't the prophet eternal. No,

(01:55:04):
they're just people who see truths from others and share
the truth with others, no matter the cost. So it
was with our profit, is the man says, So it
was with our profit, and everybody repeats. So it was
so very much a call and response like in church
if you're you know, familiar, familiar, Yeah, familiar with how

(01:55:29):
let us pray or you know anything like that, you
know the word of the Lord or something along those lines.

Speaker 1 (01:55:33):
Yeah, yeah, this was I mean, this whole entire thing
just screams cold though, Like that's all I felt watching
this whole sequence, and I'll leave it at that.

Speaker 2 (01:55:44):
Yeah, Yeah, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. If they
follow the prophet's words, they keep themselves safe is basically
what they're driving at here from her vantage point, when
she looks at this man just kind of to her left,
he's got two hammers holstered in his belt, and she
asks for her own hammer, and this might be some

(01:56:07):
sort of rite of passage maybe, but he gives her one,
and she smiles, saying that she feels safer, but distance
is what will ultimately ensure their safety. Urgent whistles suddenly
ring out and everybody goes onto high alert. He yells
to take cover, and these whistles obviously mean danger. They

(01:56:29):
split down the middle from the path and run into
the surrounding woods. Children are carried into the thicket and
hidden behind felled trees, and then they just wait silently.
The little girl asks if it's demons and her father's
guessing or you know this father figure to her says wolves.

Speaker 1 (01:56:49):
Yeah, And we see that the WLF is still on
their fucking murderous, bullshit hunting people no matter who and
where they are.

Speaker 2 (01:56:55):
Yeah, not not the animal wolves, the other animals.

Speaker 1 (01:57:01):
Yeah, as it were, Yes, but this also kind of
introduces to the audience that the size of the WLF
is bigger than just what we saw in Jackson.

Speaker 2 (01:57:13):
Yeah, well, what were their guests that they can take them? Right?

Speaker 1 (01:57:17):
Yeah, that they and they By the end of the episode,
we clearly see that they have numbers in fucking droves,
along with everything else that we'll talk about. But it's
it's certainly a hint to I thought that this was
a scene perfectly placed because of what the conversation that Eli, Dina,
and Tommy just shared about getting out and onto the

(01:57:40):
road to enact this revenge under the assumption that the
WLF is small, and then we see a completely different
group of people and their numbers are they weren't insignificant.
I would say maybe what like twenty to twenty five
people were on that trail.

Speaker 2 (01:58:00):
That's what I was going to say. Yeah, you have
to imagine if they had their like scout at the
back to like one or two scouts, So there's probably
one or two scouts ahead, and then that group of yeah,
twenty twenty five people in the middle.

Speaker 1 (01:58:11):
Yeah, and they were presumably like on the on high
alert or just on alert of a WLF present because
they know the size of this outfit and the moment
those whistles came through, they fucking ran. So to be

(01:58:33):
so scared, I think sets up for us as the
viewer and people who don't know about the scope of
the WLF, you're like, oh shit, this might actually be
worse than we thought. Yes, so I thought that that
was perfectly placed that particular scene. So, but we are
back in Jackson with Ellie and Jesse, and Ellie is
learning to box with Jesse helping her, and it appears

(01:58:55):
she's still living in her garage, so who knows what's
going to have happened with Joel's house, and he is
training her harder on her right side in particular, like
we mentioned earlier, and this is obviously where she had
the most damage done the day of Joel's death. And
they finish after a series of five punches just rapid

(01:59:16):
fire with her right arm, and Jesse appears pleasantly surprised
with her training session given she's quote sat on her
ass for three months and Helly reveals that she snucks
some pushups and crunches when the hospital staff wasn't looking
to keep her fitness levels up and probably just her
mental health sharp as much as she could, and they

(01:59:38):
banter here a little bit before Ellie gets to the
heart of the matter, the meeting that is coming up
and how Jesse is on the council. So she's digging
for a little behind the scenes insider information and wants
to know if she can count on Jesse, but mister
gutty doo shoes says that he can't discuss votes, and

(01:59:58):
Ellie protests with a U were there, meaning how can
you sit back and do nothing knowing what you saw?
And just as a quick reminder, because I will beat
it over everyone's head. Jesse found Joel, Ellie, and Dina
and probably believed, at least initially that everyone was dead,
then had to once realizing that Ellie wasn't dead, then

(02:00:21):
had to wrap Joel up and secure him to shimmer,
help Ellie not die from her injuries, wake Dina and
make sure she was alright with her fucking frostbite, and
then get all of them safely home so if anybody
should be a part of this team going west. Jesse

(02:00:43):
should be the first man on that crew, and Ellie
knows it and is trying to convey that here. Yeah,
but Jesse kind of redirects and gives Ellie advice write
down your thoughts and be succynct with them, and she
kind of pushes back and she's like, I'm not stupid,
and he's like, no, oh, you're not stupid, You're angry.
And no one will vote for someone who is lashing

(02:01:05):
out in anger, and Jesse leaves. At this point, Ellie
looks around her room, just kind of breathing deeply from
her exercise, but probably more so from anger.

Speaker 2 (02:01:13):
At this point, and.

Speaker 1 (02:01:16):
The beginning stages of the plan, I think start this
night before the meeting even take place, takes place the
next day.

Speaker 2 (02:01:24):
Did you get the sense that Jesse was going to
vote or did ultimately vote for her because I wasn't
feeling it. We'll talk, all right, Okay, all right. So
now we're at the council meeting and it looks like
we have a fair bit of town, fair bit of townsfolk. Here.

(02:01:46):
We see a list of speaker names in front of Maria,
and we are through most of them and currently on
Scott my favorite Jackson residence. Scott, there's always one of these,
motherfucker there really is, no matter where you are. Scott is.

(02:02:07):
It's so funny. I don't know where he started, but
he is so off topic right now. He's talking about
crops and chickens versus whatever. It doesn't matter. Tommy tries
to redirect Scott but pushes back, but Scott pushes back
that it's an open meeting and the bilall stayed. Blah
blah blah blah. This surrounded me like an episode of

(02:02:29):
Parks and rec to be quite honest with you, if
you've ever seen that, Yeah, excellent. Maria interrupts, suggesting they
discuss what everyone else came here to discuss, but Scott
doesn't have an opinion on it, and so Maria shuts
him down. Very funny. Yeah, that was very good. Rachel
is next. She is holding a crying baby and mumbling,

(02:02:52):
so a man takes the child and she stands on
a chair so that everyone can hear her. She proclaims,
Joel meant so much to any of us, but a
lot of people buried family that day. But she poses
concerns about the barely mended wall and that sixteen people
going west to Seattle is too soon for how hurt

(02:03:13):
the town as a whole is real.

Speaker 1 (02:03:16):
Quick, Yeah, I can't remember and if I'm doubling down
on or repeating myself from something I might have said
in episode two. But this is another one of the
contentious things I'm holding onto with this show and how
much they changed in episode two because the reason why

(02:03:38):
people are not like what this woman is saying, like
the town is too hurt, we buried too many dead,
blah blah blah. It should have just been Joel. It
was supposed to have just been Joel, But now they
had these two monumental events taking place simultaneously and so
many people died that Joel just becomes one of the dead.

(02:03:58):
And I very much dislike that because it takes away
the impact of what was supposed to be felt over
Joel's death. So now instead of just the grief from
people experiencing that, it's this community wide event of oh
my god, we lost so many people, Joel is just

(02:04:20):
another face in the crowd, and I hate that it
lessens the impact of his death, not just for me
as a Joel loving sickaphant, but like as a member
of Jackson Town. These people are way more preoccupied with
only with their own losses that Joel just gets lost

(02:04:41):
in the mix and it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (02:04:44):
And that sucks.

Speaker 1 (02:04:45):
And I still very strongly disagree with what they did
in episode two, And that's another reason why.

Speaker 2 (02:04:52):
That's an interesting thing you bring up. Where. Yeah, in
so far as what we have experienced of this story
back in twenty twenty, it was it's just Joel singled out, yeah,
and here we have we saw in the beginning a
number of dozens of people potentially murdered and or infected

(02:05:15):
or turned or in some way. So yeah, I think
that's building tension at a community level. And I don't
have a strong feeling for or against that yet, but
it certainly is more impact if it was just one person, right,
That certainly makes the decision much easier, And I think

(02:05:35):
they're probably writing themselves into a way that makes the
decision much harder. So that's almost the that feels like
almost the entire reason for this, but it is, and
that that sucks. So Rachel sits down and Carlisle is next,
and I know you wanted to shout this out.

Speaker 1 (02:05:56):
Right, Oh yes, here's an actor that I've come up
to a few times, in most particular. His name is
Hero Kanagawa, and I know him very well from Smallville.

Speaker 2 (02:06:07):
I was a Smallville girly.

Speaker 1 (02:06:09):
I loved all ten seasons, even though it went so
severely off the rails. But he was principal Kwon on
Smallville in the early seasons when they were still in
high school and things happened. And I won't spoil anything
for a twenty year old show. No, twenty four year
old show, because it premiered in two thousand and one,
but yeah, it's good to see that he's still out

(02:06:33):
there acting, and not only that on an HBO show.

Speaker 2 (02:06:36):
Well yeah, I mean where I recognized him from. He's
actually also on Shogun, the FX show. Oh yeah, I
haven't seen that. He's incredible on that. I think he
was only in it for a handful of episodes maybe, yeah,
maybe three or four of the ten in Shogun. And
he was also on that show Altered Carbon that I watched,

(02:06:57):
although I only watched the first season of that show,
so I don't really I don't know if he came
back in the second season or not. But yeah, he's
like a he just shows up and stuff. So it's
great to see him here. Yeah, always always good. Although
I don't like his character in this iteration. But if
you don't like Carlyle, no, let's talk about why here
I'll go on. He states, this is a simple one.

(02:07:21):
People came and killed Joel, so why wouldn't people want
to have their vengeance. Gail now appears here on the
upper floor, watching on this is kind of interesting. It's
just a shadowy figure in the back. Carlyle talks of
how they're not supposed to get revenge, forgive and be forgiven.
Ellie's face is one of disgust. Carlyle isn't a Christian,

(02:07:46):
but he sees wisdom in mercy. This is what sets
them apart from let's say the wolves. Seth, of all people,
mister bigot Sandwich himself said, speaks up and says, these
sons of bitches don't deserve Jackson's mercy. He's holding a

(02:08:07):
cane to his chest. Ellie looks over at him immediately
as the crowd stirs. But Seth condemns Carlyle and stands
yelling about how they came into their house and took
one of theirs, that they will come back because Jackson
did not make them pay, and they'll return laughing because

(02:08:30):
everyone is acting like goddamn victims.

Speaker 1 (02:08:35):
And here I am, here, I fucking am suddenly on
Seth's side, and we need to have a bigger conversation
about perspectives and empathy, which we will talk later about
in the show when Seth helps them on their journey.
But this was another moment where I turned to you
and I was like, oh my fucking god, now I'm

(02:08:55):
on Seth's side. What how many times are we going
to get beat over the fucking head with the empathy stick? Truly,
and the people contain multitudes, we get it.

Speaker 2 (02:09:11):
Two things can be true. He can be right about
this and he can also be an asshole. So I
don't think one absolves the other necessarily. I get we'll
get well. I think it's more appropriate for later when sure,
when we see Seth again, so we can just we'll
put a pin in this for now. But he sits
after he you know, after the goddamn victims comment and

(02:09:34):
Maria slashes Carlyle's name off the list. Carlisle spoke for
all of two minutes, and then Seth spoke for about
five and then Carlile's off the list, which I thought
was very good. Now we get to the final name
on the list and it's Ellie's turn to talk.

Speaker 1 (02:09:52):
So yeah, Maria's voice is so soft throughout this entire
council meeting, and I think she did such an incredible
job conveying that she's hurting and likely shouldering the burden
of not only the loss of her brother in law slash,
her husband's brother, and dealing with those multiple levels of

(02:10:14):
personal grief, but also the town as a whole and
feeling responsible. So I really I very much empathize with
Maria right now, and it's hard to it's just hard
to even hear her and look at her because I
can't imagine just the level of what I don't want

(02:10:35):
to say guilt because I don't necessarily know if that's it,
but just the loss. The town has suffered so many losses,
but her on a personal level also have So yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:10:44):
I'm waiting for her moment, as it were. Yeah, because
you don't hire someone like Routina to just be like
a politician, yeah, or in a passive role. Yeah. She's
an incredible actress, and so I think this is like,
like we've been talking about with Tommy. It's just a

(02:11:07):
small moment with Maria here, but a lot is conveyed about, yes,
where she is mentally, and so maybe there's an opportunity
coming up for her to have her Tommy kind of moment.
I don't know, but I guess we'll see. Yep. Ellie
size stands, pulls out a piece of paper, and she

(02:11:27):
wrote it all down, even though she normally does not
do this. Gail watches on, paying every iota of attention
to each word Ellie says. Ellie shares that her mouth
has done irreparable damage in the past, and hence the note.

(02:11:48):
She understands what she is asking is a lot, and
it is at the worst possible time. Ellie says she
wants justice, not revenge what Jackson used to give. It's
either that or nothing. Ellie goes on to say that nobody,
no one else will do absolutely anything if something happens

(02:12:10):
to Ellie or anyone else in this room. She wants
to count on people and wants people to count on her.
So Gail's raised eyebrow says she does not buy any
of this. It's great Ellie doesn't want justice for her
and not even Joel. She implores people to do it

(02:12:31):
for Jackson. Dina looks at Ellie, fully surprised that Ellie
lied her way through this beseeching diatribe. Now it's time
to vote, Okay. Everybody has had their chance to speak
and plead their case. Every vote is read and tallied
by Amy Beth. It is an eight to three in

(02:12:52):
favor of the Nose. And this goes back to.

Speaker 1 (02:12:59):
What you had started to say, say, do we believe
that the three yeses were Tommy, Marie and Jesse.

Speaker 2 (02:13:05):
I am torn because we don't know many of We
don't know any well. The two of the council people.
Weren't they the couple that was living remotely off the grid?
Am I wrong about that?

Speaker 1 (02:13:19):
You said that in episode one. I don't remember. I
literally can't picture their faces. I think that's them. I
could be wrong about that, but I think that's them.
Either way.

Speaker 2 (02:13:30):
We don't know the other council members at all, beyond
just the meeting that we had in the previous in
the first episode, rather sure, and so it doesn't make
a lot of sense for them to like, it's safe
to assume that they would all be no. It doesn't
make a lot of sense for one of them to
be like, yes either. Sure. Here's all I'll say is

(02:13:51):
from a drama standpoint, it's very compelling if at some
later time, I'm Jesse explains I voted no and the
only reason for that is because he knew Joel, he
worked with Joel, he knows Ellie, he knows Dina, he
knows how much he meant to the community. But he

(02:14:13):
voted no for some other reason that maybe he will
have the opportunity to explain. But I do think that
at least two of the ESA's were Tommy and Maria,
so I don't know about Jesse. He did not seem
gung ho on like during the training session earlier, so
I did not get the sense that he was all
in on this idea.

Speaker 1 (02:14:32):
I think it's a difficult position for Tommy, Maria and
Jesse in particular again pushing aside the other council members
because they know that. And even the conversation that Tommy
has with Gail shortly about do you think that she's
going to do something? I think it's like, even if

(02:14:53):
they voted no because they wanted it, really is, it's
a rock and a hard place because they know Ellie,
and they probably know how angry she is, even though
she's hiding it and masking it and pretending, you know,
she wants justice and not revenge, which I think everybody
who intimately knows her knows that she's fucking lying. But

(02:15:17):
the most that they can do right now is cast
a vote. So it's like, do we say yes? Because
if we say yes and everyone else agrees with us,
then Ellie doesn't have to go alone. But if we
say no, she's probably gonna end up going anyway with
less people, less supplies, less firearms, less umph, and probably

(02:15:38):
get herself killed faster. So it's like it is such
a rock and a hard place for these people who
genuinely care about Ellie. And that's why going back to
after Ellie had finished reading her note, Dina Kavor looked like,
who the fuck are you? And it's too fast of
a switch for anyone to believe Ellie. But Ellie doesn't

(02:15:59):
even see that right now. She is just trying to
get to her end goal, which is ultimately revenge. Of course, no,
of course I don't know. I would say Tommy and
Maria probably voted yes because they would while they don't
want Ellie to do this, and they don't want to
lose any more people from Jackson their strength in numbers.
But I see what you're saying with Jesse. I think

(02:16:21):
Jesse's too young and potentially shortsighted to see that far
down the road, and doesn't view Ellie through a parental lens,
so he probably just thinks, no, I don't want her
to go and get herself killed.

Speaker 2 (02:16:35):
Yeah, their votes of yes were almost certainly even if
it was Jesse included in the three, their votes were
more symbolic than anything. It's yeah, for the record, sending
sixteen people or whatever the total sixteen people total is
a bad idea. I probably would have voted no on
that too, if I'm on the council, probably would have

(02:16:57):
voted no on it. If you want to send five
on a scouting mission to see what we can see?
Maybe I just don't know. It seems like everybody it
seems like the town's in really bad shape. So that's
all I know. It sucks and it's bad, So I
feel like I would probably error a little bit closer
to Jesse, who seemed on the fence about it overall,

(02:17:19):
But I, yeah, no, I would just go I'd be like, Hey,
if you want, I wouldn't stop you. That's the thing.
I'm like, no, you can't have sixteen people, but if
you want to make a run at it, I also
won't stop you. Yeah, so does that? Yeah? Who is
like show hands? Who wants to go? And if sixteen
people raise their hands, I'd be like, ah, damn, I

(02:17:40):
guess you know, it's in a democracy, you know, that's
let's you know, it's interesting. Just keep this, just keep
all this in mind. Everyone. Ellie remains a stoic and
unfazed as the proposal is rejected. The meeting is a
journed by Maria, Seth and seed It. Ellie leaves, and

(02:18:02):
Dina watches before following her. Maria and Tommy share a look,
and everyone on the council appears very uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (02:18:11):
The look that Maria and Tommy exchange it was quick,
but it was one full of concern. Yeah, and I
would I would even go so far as like dread,
but also like, we know that she's going to figure
out a way to go and what are we going

(02:18:31):
to do? So yeah, there's a lot of implications in
that look that we can't actually really talk about because One,
we don't know if those things are going to if
certain things are going to happen or play out. And two,
if we go with our gut, it would still lead
to some spoilers. So we're just not going to talk
about it. So instead we're going to move to the
baseball game in Jackson. So Gail is seated in the outfield,

(02:18:53):
drinking a beer and encouraging number nine.

Speaker 2 (02:18:56):
So funny. The kids are never going to hit a
ball this far, so I can literally sit in the outfield,
oh yeah, and she calls it. She's like, you know, well.

Speaker 1 (02:19:06):
Tommy approaches first and they discuss a moment from Gail's
previous life, and she reveals that she was a season
ticket holder for the Detroit Tigers, and she makes a
joke here, kind of slamming the the inexperience and lack
of talent of the children, saying, this game isn't that
far off from the two thousand and three squad of.

Speaker 2 (02:19:26):
The Detroit Tigers roasted. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:19:29):
So Tommy sits on the cooler and they begin to
share a beer, and he says he spotted her in
the crowd during the town council meeting, and Tommy guesses
Gail is likely more busy because of all that's happened
to the town and its residence and what, you know,
just the suffering that continues amongst the people who have survived.
And she says basically yes and speaks on how she

(02:19:52):
is the only one in that position and her she
herself has no one else to speak to, even though
therapist are required to speak to a fellow professional to
offload their own level of absorption of what people are
dumping onto them.

Speaker 2 (02:20:11):
Yeah, you can only handle so much bad news, you know.
Oh yeah, just day in and day out. I can imagine.

Speaker 1 (02:20:17):
But we mentioned this in episode one that there may
have been multiple therapists in Jackson, but here it's confirmed
that Gail truly is the only one. Yeah, and that's
that's tough. So how does she deal with it? Well,
she says, I'm an alcoholic and I smoke as much
weat as I possibly can. But she says, basically, enough

(02:20:41):
about me. I know you're not here for me or
for like, Tommy's not there for Gail. And he shares
here that he's nervous Ellie will do something stupid, And
that goes back to the look that we just talked
about between him and Maria, and neither Gail, ell nor
Tommy believed her speech. And Gail flat out calls Ellie

(02:21:03):
a liar here, and Tommy not necessarily pushing back, but
he says there's a difference between lying and being a liar.
But Gail doubles down and just says, no, Ellie is
a liar, and the only person on Earth who likely
received the full, transparent truth of who Ellie was is
no longer here. And she doesn't have to say Joel's name,

(02:21:25):
she doesn't even have to really finish the sentence. We
all understand who she's talking about. But she talks to
Tommy about his fear here. She's like, let's talk about
what you're afraid of, free of charge, and he says
he doesn't want Ellie to go down the same paths
that Joel did, and Joel just I think we can

(02:21:46):
read the subtext here, did a lot of bed and
justified his actions by saying it was all because he
was lashing out from his own loss, or I did
this because it was a bad person, or I did
this because I was desperate to eat whatever, Like, we
can just extrapolate data and read between the lines and
Gail asks if Tommy believes Ellie learned this from Joel,

(02:22:10):
and here a discussion on behavior and nature versus nurture
is discussed. Now potentially the second biggest tangent of this
show and the last one. But a lot of people
are hating on Gail and calling her a terrible therapist.
And while yes, there is truth to that. In the
literal sense, she is an alcoholic, she is dependent on

(02:22:33):
weed and substances, and she's the only person in Jackson
just constantly being inundated by people's loss and grief and
anger and resentment and.

Speaker 2 (02:22:43):
On and on and on.

Speaker 1 (02:22:45):
She cannot be of sound mind in the state that
she perpetually keeps herself, So from a very literal sense,
I do agree that she's probably not a great therapist
in the here's how we can work things through together
kind of shit. But she reads people extremely well, so
we will give her that. But there's also this growing

(02:23:09):
suspicion of Gail surrounding her that I think is more
what I want to talk about with you here because
I shared earlier she is my new favorite character on
the show, and pushing aside the stuff that I just
talked about with her substance abuse and things like that.
Do you think that there are undertones beyond the hit

(02:23:30):
over our heads constant exposition that happens in this series,
that what happened between Joel and Eugene isn't so cut
and dry because she seems to be working the crowd
and the crowd being an intimate conversation one on one
with people to garner more information about Joel and that

(02:23:52):
a lot of people are talking about that, and I
was just curious to know your opinions. I feel like,
for me, it's a little too early for me to
see or make a call on that. But I do
like the idea that the story of Joel and Eugene
certainly is much more has much more depth that I
think any of us truly realize because he has been
mentioned three of three episodes now. But is Gail trying

(02:24:18):
to figure something out? Or did Eugene find out about
Ellie's immunity and that was ultimately the reason why Joel
had to kill him, not that he was infected, And
now Gail suspects something.

Speaker 2 (02:24:32):
This is so interesting and I don't I have two worries. Well,
let me say something first. I cannot wait to see
Gail with Eugene alive, which we have to imagine is
just going to be a flashback to maybe a year ago,

(02:24:52):
maybe longer ago. And compare the two Gails Gail then
Gail now, because I have to imagine they're going to
be two very different people, right, Yes, And we don't
bring up this character for three episodes in a row
without having a dead character, no, less without there being
some crazy reveal that has to be associated with them. Yep.

(02:25:17):
My only concern is that we don't have enough episodes
this season to have maybe a Eugene specific episode this season.
That's a literal concern of mine. Is it this season?

Speaker 1 (02:25:30):
I don't know, Well they I think it has to
be something, maybe not the grand reveal that we're all
kind of hinting at here, which.

Speaker 2 (02:25:39):
We don't know anything about.

Speaker 1 (02:25:40):
Just FYI, they showed previews with Joey Pants, okay in
scenes for this season.

Speaker 2 (02:25:49):
All right, So it might not be an entire episode
dedicated to a Eugene, but certainly he will get his flowers,
he'll get his time. We'll just see Eugene in a
different side of Gail. Sure, it seems like Gail is
searching for something, And honestly, she is the person that
has all of the secrets because if there's only one

(02:26:11):
person in the town that everybody talks to, then she
knows everybody's shit. Yep, so there is something, There is
something there. Yeah, I you know, I agree with you
at the highest level, like this is not a person
that you should seek help from, right. But on the
other side of that, I also have that whole in

(02:26:32):
vino veritas thing, you know, like when you're drunk or
under the influence, you tend to tell the truth, just
be a straight shooter. So also sometimes you need to
hear a hard truth from somebody like Joel heard in
the first episode. Right, Oh absolutely, So yeah, I don't
think that this is over. I'd like whatever Gail is,

(02:26:55):
her end game is here. She's while she is a
character that is delivering exposition to us, and I think
it can be a little can be a little handholdie Will.
I will give you that. I think her role at
large will be much more satisfying than just this town

(02:27:19):
just kind of a little bit of comic relief, a
little bit of truth, a little bit of exposition. I
think we're going to get something pretty big from.

Speaker 1 (02:27:25):
Gail, Okay, yeah, okay, I will buy that because I
feel like you and I are on the same page there.
But getting back to this, Gail doesn't believe the path
that Ellie is on is because Joel put her there.
She thinks that her and Joel were quote walking side
by side from the get go. And this is what

(02:27:47):
I mentioned during my tirade about Joel's watch being completely
dismissed and the point of that missing. And this paints
Ellie in another portrait of all this girl has in
her heart is violence and bloodthirstiness. So everyone is perceiving

(02:28:07):
Ellie under the lens of they're afraid that she's going
to be impulsive. They're afraid that she has been this
way all along. And it has nothing to do with
Joel's relationship with her, or his influence or his you know,
the learned behavior that she picked up with her time
with Joel. Like, it's all just violence, violence, violence. Ellie

(02:28:30):
is just a feral, fucking cat essentially waiting to lash
out and slash and rip people to shreds. And it
just all these moments serve to just reinforce this point
that I think Craig in particular is trying to push
down our throats, and I vehemently disagree with it. Ellie

(02:28:51):
was not just this. Her anger and her rage and
her and her need for fucking revenge didn't happen from
the get go. That didn't exist within her. It had
to be born of something. It had to come from somewhere,
and the catalyst or the triggering event just occurred. But

(02:29:14):
now we have Gail saying she's been like this the
whole time, and we have Craig Mason saying violence is
the tether, and I just don't agree with that. I
think Ellie is a liar and she had to be
a liar to protect her immunity with Joel, like not
lying to Joel. I mean like alongside Joel knowing the truth,

(02:29:36):
they had to collectively be a liar. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:29:39):
Yeah, But I.

Speaker 1 (02:29:41):
Don't know, Like, I think Ellie is doing what she
needs to do to get out the fucking door because
she knows that the support is not going to come
from the town. But she still tried, She still tried
to fake her way through that to do it right
instead of just lashing out. So well, whatever these perceptions

(02:30:02):
of her are, I think even in the show, they're wrong.

Speaker 2 (02:30:05):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:30:06):
I just it's disappointing to see Ellie constantly being painted
in the same like, with the same brush, one singular,
fucking violent brush, because that's not who she is. That's
not all of who she is. It's interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:30:22):
I'm tending to agree with you that they're trying to
push a narrative about Ellie being this way like XYZ,
and I'm wondering if they had just a little bit
more of a if they took their foot off the
gas just a little bit and essentially turned it into

(02:30:42):
more of like a hurt people, hurt people kind of thing,
rather than like she's always been this bloodthirsty demon, you know, Yeah,
because Ellie has experienced a ton of trauma that we
have seen throughout her life. Like we meet Ellie, she's
a teenager when we meet her, right but already by
that point she has experienced so much loss and pain,

(02:31:06):
and then she goes through a lot more of it
on the road with Joel. And so if Gail's assessment
was she is prone to lashing out and hurting those
around her physically if need be, but certainly in other ways,
I would be a little bit more okay that tracks

(02:31:28):
that tracks. The only time we've seen Ellie, at least
in our experience with her, be an active participant in
violence is when she is in danger and in service
of protecting those around her, at which point we know
that she is capable of a great deal of violence.

(02:31:50):
And so I don't know, Yeah, I agree with you.
I think I don't love that they're putting it on her.
But this is one of those things where I'm like,
they're table setting for what may be coming next. Is
it a self fulfilling prophecy for them? I think that's
kind of what I'm getting at. Is it like, well,

(02:32:12):
she's clear she's clearly a violent person, going to do
violent things, and then when she goes off on a
revenge mission at the end of this, it's just them.
You're like, I've told you so, I fucking called that
one on the baseball field, you know, sure, And that's cheap.

Speaker 1 (02:32:28):
If that's the case, that's very cheap, because I'm not
saying that we had necessarily had to hide any kind
of violent tendencies or behavior from Ellie until a certain point,
and then people are shocked by what she does and
disbelieving of her character in that way. You know, Oh,
I never viewed Ellie as this hardcore killer, like stone

(02:32:51):
cold killer kind of thing or whatnot. And it's not
selling to me from the show now because she was
this happy, go lucky, fun pun tell and kiddo. Like again,
people contain multitudes. But that's but my point here isn't
that Ellie isn't violent. She is, but it's not all

(02:33:13):
she is. She's signed by the violence, yes, and that's
what they're trying to do, and I just don't like it.
It takes away from all the other parts of her
that are so fucking beautiful.

Speaker 2 (02:33:26):
Yeah. You look at the Ellie in the room in
Joel's house, and I'm talking about picture the teenager that
lived in the room in Joel's house with the space
drawlings and the Nirvana poster and the you know all that.
You're like, that's also Ellie. Did she beat the shit

(02:33:46):
out of and stabed David to death? Yeah? Yeah, but
she also likes music and outer space and you know,
comic books and stuff like that. So yeah, I'm with
you there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:34:00):
So continuing, let's wrap this up. Gail understands that Tommy
inherited Ellie and he wants to keep her safe, but
says here that some people cannot be saved and her
experience as a psychotherapist for forty years is the sole
basis of this statement from her. And I'm interested to know.

(02:34:20):
And this is not a talking topic for you and
I this is a call to action for our listeners.
Come yeah, I'm interested to know what people thought about
this particular line and the implications for Ellie and not
only the rest of this season, but the remainder of
this series as a whole. So please write in your thoughts.

(02:34:45):
Do you think that Ellie is someone who cannot be saved?
And if so, why and if not why?

Speaker 2 (02:34:51):
Okay, so after this, we cut to Ellie's garage and
Ellie is cleaning Joel's revolt her. She loads it and
stuffs it in the waistband of her jeens, and then
a series of loud knocks can be heard and Ellie flounders,
lying saying that she's going to bed, but Dina does

(02:35:13):
not believe that where Ellie's going at all. I think
this is the part where we get a little bit
of a wide shot of Ellie and there she's got
a whole arsenal laid out on the floor, and I
just laughed, like I literally laughed when I saw the
amount of guns on the ground. Dina is alone and

(02:35:34):
Ellie pulls her into the room very very quickly. Ellie
tells her not to talk her out of this, like
she's her mind's made up. Dina asks Ellie what the
plan is. She's going to Seattle and killing Abby seems
pretty straightforward in terms of a plant. They go over
the supply list and it seems Ellie is bringing all

(02:35:56):
weapons on all weapons supply, just strictly weapons on her
northwest trip to Seattle. Dina whips out a map and
she goes through a planned route, which it doesn't seem
like Ellie did at all. Then whips out a handwritten
supply list that isn't just weapons. Look at this one

(02:36:17):
over here, Dina. We have a map of western US,
a compass, winter coats that double as a bedroll, light
jackets that double as blankets, rugged footwear for Ellie ha ha,
extra socks, first aid kits that include rubbing alcohol, scissors, gauze,
adhesive bandages, tweezers, ibuprofen, etc. Flashlights, a lantern, extra batteries,

(02:36:40):
bear spray, very useful insect repellant, tick remover, scoped long gun,
fifteen caliber rounds, side arm one hundred rounds, a holster
plus gun, oil, canteen for water, chlorine, tablets, frying pan,
cup bowl, spork, food, high protein, non perishable beef, jerky knife, whetstone, multitool,

(02:37:03):
waterproof matches, tape, collapsible ten for shimmer. It's a lot
of stuff, a lot of stuff handguns. Ellie says she's
gonna bring Joel's. Dina recognizes it. That's what Ellie should
kill Abby with, but Ellie should save it because it's
slow and kicks like hell. Dina says, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:37:25):
And this is another example of Dina talking to Ellie
concerning details about Joel's weapon, as though she intimately knows
this weapon and Ellie doesn't. And it's just stop trying
to convince us that Dina was as close to, if
not closer to Joel than Ellie was. Please just stop this.

(02:37:46):
It's so I know him till god, I can't fucking
stand it. It feels so and I know that people
are like, no, how about you see the bonding that
these two people who clearly have an attraction to each other,
loved the same man in a similar capacity. How about that, Jack,
I get it, Okay, I'm not fucking stupid. I just

(02:38:08):
do not like it.

Speaker 2 (02:38:10):
I didn't get that from this conversation. I got that
Ellie is an improviser and Dina is type A. That's
what I just got personality traits from these two. You know.
When I asked, like, what's the plan, Ellie's like, I'm
going to go to Seattle and kill her. And I'm like,
I appreciate, I admire that.

Speaker 1 (02:38:29):
As no, yeah, but we're not talking about that right now.
We're talking about Joel's gun.

Speaker 2 (02:38:34):
Yeah, and even that, I think Dina's type A. She's like,
that's a great idea. Love that idea, but in the meantime,
you should probably just have like a regular ass handgun,
like a nine millimeter, because that thing is slow and
kicks like hell. You know. That's I didn't take it
as her like imposing, although I completely understand your read

(02:38:55):
of that. For me, that was a little bit less
of I did not find that to be as a
Joel is my I know Joel too, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:39:04):
Yeah, again this conversation, I'm possessive. I'm a possessive person.
So when I feel like people are encroaching on shit.
I'm like, no, back the fuck up. Yeah, this is
not for you. This was for me and you just
came along.

Speaker 2 (02:39:19):
Yes, and I can see it as cumulative for you
as well, because it's not just this instance for Dina.
It's so far on the show many times. Yeah, this
episode specifically and the show at large so far too. So.
At this point, Ellie once again puts the revolver in
the rear of her jeans and Dina really shoot your

(02:39:41):
damn ass off. They share a smile, as Ellie says,
never heard that one before. Any long gun they bring
should be scoped, which is important. They're sharing a horse
because fewer resources, which is good. The Chuck's got to
go and boots are a must love that yep. Ellie
wonders how they're going to get all of this. Ellie

(02:40:02):
questions if Dina told Jesse, and Dina calls him Captain
Wyoming and it is so good, specifically for me, because
I called him Captain America earlier in the episode. Yes,
she loves How did they was Captain America even a
movie that they would have I guess they probably would
have known the comic Captain America. But they did. They

(02:40:23):
certainly did not get that movie in their timeline, because
that came later than the Apology America. No, no, no, I'm
just I thought that the Captain Wyoming was their small
scale jab at, like a goody two shoes who always
does you know? Yeah? Yeah, I just That's all I'm

(02:40:45):
saying is what would there have what would their reference
have been for Captain America? Even I don't know anyway
comment let us know she loves the man, but he's uptight.
But no, it's not Jesse, who's quote unquote the guy.
The preparations continue with where all the clothes you are
going to bring phil pockets with Ammo and everything else

(02:41:06):
must fit into a backpack or holster. Dina turns to
leave and says they will meet by the old East
Gate at three am. Ellie stops her with a thank you,
and Dina says that she could have just asked. She
could have just asked. Ellie didn't think she could have
done that, but now she does.

Speaker 1 (02:41:24):
And just says an aside. I love I love prep scenes.
I am always I'm a sucker for a prep where
you're going on a mission moment, and this is one
this was close to one. Like, I like the physical.
We got the list, now let's start packing montage. They
just did the list part of the prep and not
the montage, and that's fine, but I love it. I

(02:41:46):
give it to me every time.

Speaker 2 (02:41:48):
Yeah, well, there was a map involved, so there is
that aspect of it, like the you know, we unfold
the map on the table. It's kind of like before
a heist or something. Here. Still I am, you know,
I love that too. Well done.

Speaker 1 (02:42:00):
So we are in Jackson still with Ellie and Dina,
but they are about to leave and Ellie waits in
the dark by the east gate as Dina pulls up
with Shimmer and Seth is in tow. He apparently is
quote the guy, and initially he offers to trade Ellie
for his scoped rifle and she hesitates at first, but

(02:42:21):
he's like, just do it. Mine is better, and eventually
she does, and they got Shimmer out by having a
woman who was working the stables for the night shift
who is quote in on their cause and Ellie's like,
our cause, which leads Seth to giving her a little
bit of lip about how Ellie was the one making
the bullshit speech, not him, and Seth lists the supplies.

(02:42:42):
That's a hard sense. Seth lists the supplies. He's included
everything that they needed. It sounds like is part of
what he has given them. And he says here that
he would join them, but he caught quote friendly fire
on New Year's Day, and Ellie quips with U, sure
it was friendly, much to Dina's chagrin with Jesus Christ,

(02:43:03):
which is really just full of exasperation. And this is
like one of those bottle moments where sometimes I'm like, Ellie,
can you just shut the fuck up? Like I understand
that Seth is an absolute dickhead, but like he is
literally helping you, giving you free supplies, getting you out
the door on your side, and read the fucking room.

(02:43:25):
But that also goes back to she probably just doesn't
have that skill set and we need to just move on.
So there's about ten minutes left before patrol comes by,
so it is time for them to go, and Seth
swings open the gate and Dina and Ellie mount shimmer.
There's one final handshake between Ellie and Seth and they're off.

(02:43:46):
So this is a very meaningful exchange here, and I'm
glad that they included it. Because I'm not on Seth's
side per se. We've talked about how two things can
be true and so on and so forth.

Speaker 2 (02:43:58):
This was a shit.

Speaker 1 (02:43:59):
This is a display of like mutual respect and not like,
oh I'm sorry, here's some sandwiches, or oh, I'm sorry,
Maria is making me apologize to you for being an asshole.

Speaker 2 (02:44:12):
It was a literal I believe what you are doing
is right.

Speaker 1 (02:44:17):
I'm sorry that I can't be there with you. Yeah,
And in turn, Ellie's just acknowledging he's helping her in
this moment. It doesn't undo or change what he did,
but they can come to a mutual agreement right now
and be on the same side and that's okay. And
just to close that out, he closes the ivy covered

(02:44:39):
gate behind them, and that's that.

Speaker 2 (02:44:40):
The only thing I didn't love about that was the handshake.
So the only thing that I didn't like was the hang.
I didn't I didn't personally me, just me. I didn't
really dig the handshake. I thought that it might have
been because these two people I like, I don't think
that Seth as a person. They agree on this one thing,
which you know you you said, sure, but this doesn't

(02:45:02):
wipe away like the fact that he doesn't what do
we call this, he's a bigot, right, like he's a homophobe. Yeah, yeah,
he's a homophobe. Sorry, I completely lost the word for
a second there. I said that it doesn't undo what
he did. Yeah, So I really would have liked just
from a storytelling, because I don't think the show fumbles often.

(02:45:24):
I just didn't. This kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
I would have liked her to refuse the rifle a
little bit more and then instead of the handshake her
just accept the rifle. I think that would have been
like a better, a better way to say, like, we
are in agreement on this one thing, and I appreciate
your support, and I you know, this is all good.

(02:45:44):
I'll take this rifle. We're good on this one thing.
So I just really liked the way that Ellie treated
him during the apology for the sandwich thing, and I
thought that that should have held a little bit truer.
But I also understand everything that you said. I just
that was the one thing where I was like.

Speaker 1 (02:46:02):
Eh, well, because circumstances changed the way Ellie treated him
with the biggot sandwich offering, was before Jackson incurred monumental
loss and Joel died.

Speaker 2 (02:46:18):
Yeah, and I get it. That is a way that
is a galvanizing Maybe it is that Seth now does
change his ways right where he's like, oh, it's actually
doesn't this stupid fucking bias that I'm holding onto means nothing? Nothing?
And that's that's I'd be willing if you told me

(02:46:39):
that that's true because three months have elapsed, right, so
maybe that's true.

Speaker 1 (02:46:44):
And he was shot by someone in Jackson friendly fire
and applies Jackson. Somebody else from Jackson shot his ass.
But you know, and this is this goes back to
a larger conversation of can people change? And if so,
do you believe that people can change? Because you know,
cancel culture in today's world, it's like, oh my god,

(02:47:06):
this celebrity posted this, you know, shitty comment twenty three
years ago when Twitter first came out or whatever it was,
and now we have to throw him in the trash
can and it's like, are you fucking serious? Like you've
never done anything in your life that was reflective of
some sort of challenging or bigoted opinion or stereotypical mind thought,

(02:47:29):
Like like just I mean, every person on earth has
done some fucking dumb shit in their past or said
something rude or hurtful or or or whatnot like, and
anybody who says differently is a fucking liar, Like flat
out fucking liar. If this show is trying to teach

(02:47:51):
us that circumstances can fundamentally change someone, or maybe they
were just fundamentally always the same fucking way they were
before they met this person or that person.

Speaker 2 (02:48:01):
According to Gail Or.

Speaker 1 (02:48:04):
Empathy trying to see another person's point of view even
though we can't fucking stand them initially. Is this a
theme that will play out? I'm gonna go out on
a limb and say yeah, because that's what Naughty Dog
is best fucking known for. So just you know, prepare
yourself everyone. If you don't like what's happening, I don't
know what to tell you. That is one of the

(02:48:24):
themes that they hit over the head again and again
and again and again and again. And this is a
moment where I felt genuine remorse from him, And maybe
I misread that, but I just felt coming across a
scoped weapon that was in such good condition as the
one that he traded her for and giving it to

(02:48:47):
her willingly, along with all the free supplies speaking up
on Joel's behalf, even though Joel fucking threw his dumbass
to the ground, and him having the apology made and whatever,
you know, we said that before drunk thought or drunk
words are sober thoughts. So he certainly has that component

(02:49:08):
in his heart of being homophobic. And I don't necessarily
think that can be fully eradicated from some people. But
in this moment, I feel like he learned his fucking
lesson and probably had to sit with himself in recovery
and was just probably like, what the fuck I'm hoping
for that, because otherwise why you seth as the vehicle

(02:49:32):
to get them out of town?

Speaker 2 (02:49:34):
Yeah, okay, I take it back. I'm convinced. I you know,
maybe it's a situation where he's like, we're we're more
alike than maybe I thought. Yeah, you know, that's him
realizing that for whatever reason. At the time when I
had watched it, I was like, eh, I don't like
this handshake situation. I didn't either, you know, I don't

(02:49:57):
want I don't want. Yeah, I don't want Ellie to
be I'll just put it this way I don't want
Ellie to I don't want that handshake for Ellie to
be forgiving of his bigotry. Is how that I don't
want it to mean that. I don't think it does. Okay,
as long as we're on the same page that it's like,
this is an agreement between us. It's like, I'm not

(02:50:18):
gonna say shit about helping you or that I completely
support you going on this revenge mission, but I one
hundred percent do. Then I think that that's cool. I
think that's fine.

Speaker 1 (02:50:31):
Yeah, And that's what I think the handshake symbolized. I
don't think it was Ellie openly forgiving him for being
a fucking shit brain homophobe. And again, we're going to
talk about some biphobic themes shortly when we get to
Dina and Ellie in the tent. But like, I am bisexual,

(02:50:52):
so in moments where homophobia or biphobia or things like
that are presented, it pisses me off, which is why
I'm always going to defend Ellie and Dina to the death.
But in this moment, I don't think Ellie was like, like,
if I'm putting myself in Ellie's shoes in that moment
I would not shake Seth's hand and be like, oh,

(02:51:13):
I forgive you for all that vitriol you spout it
even though you got your ass thrown to the floor
and that.

Speaker 2 (02:51:17):
Was kind of funny.

Speaker 1 (02:51:18):
But like I would just be like, we are on
the same page with this, and I appreciate you helping
me get here.

Speaker 2 (02:51:27):
All right, that's it, that's great, all right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:51:31):
So the next few sections are really short, so I
just kind of lump them all in for me. But
ten miles south of Jackson, Ellie and Dina stop at
the graveyard finally, and Ellie kneels before Joel's headstone, staring
at it for a little while, and then they kind
of pull back and we get this sweeping view of
the landscape and it is just so breathtaking. I know,

(02:51:51):
we talk about Wyoming and Jackson and just the Tetons
and all that is stunning, But every time.

Speaker 2 (02:51:59):
We see it, I'm like, why aren't we there? Why
aren't were people live there?

Speaker 1 (02:52:04):
Yeah, Like, people get to open up their windows every
day and see views like that, and I bet that
they don't care as much as they fucking should. But
you should, people, you should anyway, So Ellie unties a
linen bag or a canvas bag, whatever, and drops a
handful of coffee beans by Joel's grave like on top

(02:52:26):
of obviously where he is buried. And she smiles, and
it's a warm smile here, and it's obvious that she's
remembering better days. At least that's what I'm hoping and
reading into it. And we know that we know of
Joel's love of coffee, and in my head, like the
logical part of my brain said, coffee beans are probably

(02:52:47):
very hard to come by in the post apocalypse because
of where they are primarily sourced in the world, which
is not in America.

Speaker 2 (02:52:57):
From Jackson, far from Jackson.

Speaker 1 (02:53:00):
Yeah, So it's this thing of pairing Ellie's revulsion to
the taste of coffee and the short, very extremely limited
supply of coffee and yet still giving this to him.
So like, what did she have to trade? What did
she have to work for to get even those like

(02:53:22):
six or seven beans to do this? And it's a very,
very incredibly sentimental moment. And I love that they included
that because I think, after like all the shit that
we've been talking about, it was nice to have that.
But after she does this, she looks to his name
on the marker and then places her palm flat to
the earth. And Ellie breathes shallowly here, and her smile

(02:53:45):
is gone, and there's a resolution that takes over her expression,
and that was this hardened decisiveness of what is beginning
from this point forward. And she walks away from his tombstone,
even though it's probably would, but leaves him behind and

(02:54:06):
then joins Dina on Shimmer once more. And this is
one of those things where I hate. I don't know
why it affects me so much, but leaving Joel behind
in a graveyard just feels so wrong in my soul,
Like it makes me almost physically sick, Like even talking
about it right now, my stomach's upset and I have

(02:54:29):
like weird hangs in like the top of my legs
or it's a very strange feeling. I felt it in
the game because it's like you're leaving someone behind for good,
there is no more, and it just yeah, it very much.
It very much upset me both times that I have
to had to endure that so anyway, but we are

(02:54:50):
riding west now, and just once again, the Western United
States is so heartbreakingly beautiful, and one day I hope
we are there, because we are seeing in these landscapes,
we are seeing buttes and mountains and waterfalls and hills
and so much more, and lush greenery and large hills,

(02:55:10):
or the mountains give way to lush greenery and large
hills or small mountains, depending on which you we're looking at.
Surround Ellie and Dina as they play a word game together,
and they changed topics to the first person they killed
because Ellie was getting annoyed with the alphabet game. And
Ellie talks here that the first one, and we are

(02:55:32):
assuming that it was Riley, is too fucked up to
talk about, but the second.

Speaker 2 (02:55:37):
Was the man was a man who almost.

Speaker 1 (02:55:39):
Killed Joel, and Ellie shares that story here, and Dina
is so loyal to Ellie that she says she feels
sorry for Ellie, even though Ellie was the one who
literally killed another human being. And this is where the
dynamics of murder versus killing is an evergreen talking point
to this series, and I think just the general themes

(02:55:59):
of post upon ecalyptic stories, and I obviously it's no
different in the Last of Us, but it is one
of those things because if you put yourself in that
situation of, oh, yeah, the first person that killed was
trying to kill my best friend, but I killed them first,
and then somebody else being like fucking yeah you did.

(02:56:19):
Could you imagine having that conversation with someone right now?
It's just it's it's a very different mindset, and I
think that this is a very timely conversation to have
at this point in their journey.

Speaker 2 (02:56:34):
Yeah, I yeah, it's also yeah, it's it's like you said,
it's like I couldn't even imagine that conversation, like when
imagine when we first started dating, tell me about all
the people you've killed, you know. Yeah, it's like, but
this is just they grew up with this, right, this
is just how they in this world.

Speaker 1 (02:56:54):
So, and is it murder or is it justified self
defense killing? Like, it's all of it. It really is
all of it. But the way that they process is
profoundly different to the way that we would.

Speaker 2 (02:57:08):
Yeah, it's yeah, it's a gray area in the opposed apocalypse.
When there are no rules, then I don't even is
there murder right or is it just killing right? Because
murder is like what we charge you for. Yeah, that's
like the crime, but that assumes a lot, so you know,

(02:57:30):
I don't know. It's hard to know.

Speaker 1 (02:57:32):
And the last section that I'm going to take is
in the tent with Dina and Ellie. A storm comes
on fast, so fast that Ellie and Dina settle in
for the night, and Ellie's kind of.

Speaker 2 (02:57:43):
Like, how did you figure that out? Like how did
you know that was going to happen?

Speaker 1 (02:57:46):
And Dina just quips I'm a witch, which I love
again little flirty flirts, which makes me very happy for them,
and there's an awkward silence that fills the tent and
most especially comes from Ellie's side of things, as Dina
appears to be ready to sleep and the lantern is
turned off, but it's off only momentarily because Dina turns over,

(02:58:08):
turns the light back on and says she has a
stupid question, and it is about New Year's Eve and
their kiss, and they both try to play it off
here a little bit. Dina was super high, Ellie was
super drunk, but regardless of that, Dina wants Ellie to
rate the kiss and she's curious about this because you're gay,
I'm not. And Ellie has kissed girls before and she

(02:58:32):
wants to know. Dina wants to know if she's.

Speaker 2 (02:58:34):
Good at it. So Ellie rates it as a six, and.

Speaker 1 (02:58:41):
Dina immediately immediately says, fuck you six, and her reaction
is wonderful and she does not believe Ellie for one second.

Speaker 2 (02:58:51):
Neither do I.

Speaker 1 (02:58:51):
Neither do we either, but Ellie replies that she answered
Dina and she's sorry, like it.

Speaker 2 (02:58:57):
Is what it is.

Speaker 1 (02:58:58):
But Ellie kind of fires back, well, you can go
back with Jesse then, and Dina shares here that she
already did with a cute little smirk on her face
and her arms crossed across her chest. And Ellie settles
back into sleep after this, or trying to sleep after this,
but Dina continues the conversation about Jesse and asks Ellie
does he feel sad to you? And Ellie agrees that yeah,

(02:59:19):
he kind of does feel sad, and Dina thinks that's
just how Jesse is, because if that's not how he is,
then it's her making Jesse sad.

Speaker 2 (02:59:32):
And that's a sobering thought.

Speaker 1 (02:59:34):
You never want to be sad to a partner in
your life, or cause them to be sad.

Speaker 2 (02:59:39):
That's terrible.

Speaker 1 (02:59:41):
And on that note, the lantern goes out again, but
Dina rolls over and it does actually appear to be
sleep time, but no, she says a little lasting final
thought of I wasn't that high, and Ellie remains silent here,
but smiles just enough to let us know that that
means something to her, because of course it does. There's

(03:00:02):
certainly something growing here between Ellie and Dina. And this
is where we're going to talk about the biphobia that
is running rampant on social media around Dina's comment of
your gay, I'm not, and the expectations of gamers versus

(03:00:25):
TV show watchers, and if I spoil some things, or
if I say too much whatever, I just want to
I just want to talk about this. But I have
been presented with situations with women who are lesbians that
have given me a hard time that I am bisexual.

(03:00:47):
But I've been in a relationship, a romantic relationship with
you Andrew for almost eighteen years or no, over eighteen years.

Speaker 2 (03:00:54):
Excuse me of their names.

Speaker 1 (03:00:55):
I want them yet, No, but it's yeah, it's just
that kind of like, you know, how can you how
can you be bisexual? Either you want one or you
want the other? There is no gray area and I
think that is so fucking obtuse and dismissive. And I've
even shared experiences that I've had and they were discounted

(03:01:19):
because I am with you and have been for almost
two decades. They're like, well, clearly not enough. And I'm like,
this is like the judgment that people cast on others,
and it's very upsetting. Homophobia, by phobia, it's all upsetting.
But to know that people who are a part of
the LGBTQ community doubt other people or condemn other people

(03:01:44):
in the same fucking community because they don't understand or
they don't like it is so hard to be around.
Sometimes we don't even know that Dina there are no
labels apart from Elie is gay. Dina could be pan sexual,
where she just falls in love with who she falls
in love with, or likes who she likes, or is

(03:02:04):
attracted to who she's attracted. There are no fucking rules,
And I truly feel that way in real life, like,
fall in love with who you fall in love with.
That's the end of the fucking story, and anything more
than that is just people projecting and casting judgment. So
when I saw so many of these comments about this

(03:02:27):
tense scene in particular, and more specifically Dina's comment just
being like, Wow, we're just gonna just you know, Ellie's
the gay one, so I guess Dina's by but she's
still with Jesse, so she's I guess she's not really
interested in Ellie. She's all bullshit, and I'm like, wow,
Like it is twenty twenty five and we're still arguing

(03:02:48):
about the semantics of each letter in the LGBTQ community,
Like really, it's really so. It was upsetting, And you know,
I had a very long conversation with my cousin Erica,
who is in She's been with a woman now for
two years and as happy as she's ever been. This

(03:03:08):
is the love of her life. I'm proud of her.
I'm more proud of her than I've ever been for
acknowledging her own personal truth. And I'm like, do you
ever feel like there's there's less to me being bisexual
because Andrew and I have been together for so long
And she's like, uh no, who gives a fuck? And
there it is, end of conversation. But people are just

(03:03:29):
so judgmental. Let the fucking story play out. Clearly they
are going for a slow burn, Let it play out,
enjoy it. There is not a lot of light and
love being shown on this show whatsoever. Let it happen,

(03:03:50):
let it unfold, Calm your fucking tits, and enjoy it.
And that is all I have to say about that.
I'm not going to share any experts I had about
the tent scene because they could be spoilery. But do
I wish other things happened? Maybe, But also I'm enjoying.
I'm enjoying where we're at and watching these two people

(03:04:15):
do the flirty dance and eventually begin to fall in love,
and I think that's really special.

Speaker 2 (03:04:20):
Yeah. I have nothing to add there. Yeah, yeah, well said,
that's all.

Speaker 1 (03:04:24):
I just you know, some people might not like that
because they're biphobic, And if you're one of those people,
then I got nothing to say to you.

Speaker 2 (03:04:30):
Yeah, phobes. All right, we're back on the Seattle trail.
We see the marker again and the arboretum that we
were shown earlier in the episode. We hear that they
are roughly ten miles out in theory that they should
come out just north of Seattle. They stop abruptly, seeing

(03:04:53):
an overturned cart and a dead man lying in the
middle of the trail. They note the symbol on the
back of the man's clothes, the one from earlier in
the episode, along with multiple calibers of shell casings by
the body. They don't know what this symbol is either.
Ellie doesn't think it's Fedra because of the array of

(03:05:14):
bullets being used, so Fedra the military organization, probably would
have had a lot of the same caliber of bullets.
Ellie tries to prompt Dina, but discovers her missing. Panic
starts to rise in her voice as she turns around
to find her, but it isn't long before Dina stumbles
out of the woods and then vomits. She gestures back

(03:05:36):
to where she came from, pointing that there is something
in there that would have caused her to be sick.
So Ellie follows the where she's pointing to, walks through
the woods and finds the bodies of all of the
people that we saw earlier, the whistlers as it were.
She actually spots the young girl and her father lying

(03:05:59):
on the back's dead, eyes open to the sky above them,
and the child is still holding onto the hammer that
her father or that man gave her. Ellie looks absolutely horrified.
She is staring open eyed at the little one, specifically
unblinking so long. It's just a horrifying and disturbing scene. Yeah.

(03:06:27):
Ellie returns to Dina and asks how she was. Dina
thinks it was the smell, but Ellie supports that the
scene itself was enough to make anyone just her, so
even if it has never happened before. Yeah, the logical
trial begins here. Ellie wonders on whether or not this
was Abby and her crew that if they did that

(03:06:49):
to these people, to these children. Dina has an odd
look about her when Ellie says this, and Ellie seems
confused by her reaction as much as we were. They
get back to Shimmer and then continue on through the woods.
We see like an abandoned car, and now we know
that we are very close. We see just hints of

(03:07:11):
civilization like this car. Once they emerge from the forest,
they cross a street full of abandoned mossy cars and
we see a sign that they're approaching a QZ, a
quarantine zone. Dina notes how quiet it is and Ellie, yeah,
too quiet, And Dina asks Curtis or Viper, and Ellie

(03:07:32):
says both in all four movies.

Speaker 1 (03:07:36):
Yeah, and this is actually the first time we hear
Ellie talk indirectly, but of memories involving Joel in moments
that we were not privy to so better times, and
clearly they had plenty of movie nights, so much so
that Elle memorized the lines from these movies and Dina
prompts her. So it was nice to see Ellie for

(03:07:56):
a change, because it's been just Dina, Dina, Dina, Dina
with oh, I have a movie, a movie night playing
with Joel. Oh, I know about Joel's gun and how
it's slow and it's and it kicks like a fucking rim.

Speaker 2 (03:08:08):
Oh I know how you know?

Speaker 1 (03:08:11):
Like, So it was nice that Ellie, even though she
was serious and kind of looking around at this moment,
they were still joking a little bit and bringing something
in that was from her past with Joel.

Speaker 2 (03:08:23):
Pretty good. We see a sign that Seattle is nine
more miles away, just a highway sign. They continue on
and we see the city skyline in distance. Eventually we
arrived there, seeing the destruction of the buildings, some appearing
to have been bombed or attacked, along with the space
needle well in the distance. Ellie thinks it's pretty Dina

(03:08:49):
is just happy no one is shooting at them, So
two sides of the same coin. I guess there's not
that many rules here. And Ellie says there's about to
be a whole lot less and Dina responds, Curtis or viper.
But this wasn't a quoted line from the movie. She's
seen plenty. It was just Ellie trying to be a badass.

(03:09:10):
But Dina thinks she is a badass. They turned back
from the broken highway and we are given a last
look at the city from this vantage point.

Speaker 1 (03:09:19):
And this is the last section of this episode. But
it's the WLF lookout and a patrol and Manny with
his shiny fresh scar on his forehead, is on some
sort of lookout duty. Someone else radios in asking him
to check if points three and five are fully cleared.

(03:09:40):
He grabs his binoculars and checks reports back that everything
is all good and they can proceed. And we hear
an entourage here, a literal fucking armored vehicle tanks adjacent thing.
There was literally armored vehicles rolling down the fucking street,
plus all these people walking behind them, and it's a

(03:10:01):
large group of WLF quote soldiers marching behind these vehicles,
fully armored and outfitted with automatic weapons.

Speaker 2 (03:10:10):
It was a lot.

Speaker 1 (03:10:11):
This is not a small group. This is definitely a
mini Fedra. And I think that that is the final
note of the show because I'm concerned for Dina and Ellie.

Speaker 2 (03:10:22):
Right they're all converging. It looks like they're they are
where Ellie and Dina are headed, and that's worrisome.

Speaker 1 (03:10:30):
So we'll have to see what happens on next week's episode,
which is called Day one or this weekend. It actually
in two days because it's now three nineteen pm on Friday.
We're recording this. This is the end of the episode.
But now we're going to read an email from Barb
our our wonderful, wonderful friend and supporter of this podcast.

(03:10:55):
Barb decided to write in after listening to our show,
and she says, Dear Jack and Andrew, absolutely phenomenal podcast.
I know Jack loves that description. I'm a quote newer
listener to your podcast, so I need to go back
and listen to the first season. You two have such
a great vibe and insight, and I'm so excited for

(03:11:17):
my commute now just so i can listen to your comments,
banter and laugh at your humor. I love you guys,
oh and Andrew. It is called the tipsy Bison in
the show. There's a sign in the bar scene in
season one when Tommy and Joel share a drink. But seriously,
the quality and care you put into your podcast shows
and you guys deserve everything. As for a comment on

(03:11:39):
this week's episode, Season two, Episode three, I thought it
was definitely better than last week's episode. I don't know
how you guys are able to keep comparison free.

Speaker 2 (03:11:49):
This is so difficult.

Speaker 1 (03:11:50):
But I do have one main criticism of this week's
show that happens near the very end. For an HBO
show that has a pretty extensive budget, I find it
daly sloppy of them to make the mistake they did.
Anyone with a brain and the ability to do minimal
research should never have made this mistake. Now. I know
not everyone would have caught this, as not everyone is

(03:12:11):
familiar is from, or familiar with the Pacific Northwest. But
as someone who lived just south of Seattle for eight years,
this was such an obvious error. And I don't mean
to sound all hoity tweety, but come on, guys, all
of your fans from the Pacific Northwest will know what
I'm talking about. Twice in the last few scenes there

(03:12:31):
is reference. There is reference to where Dina and Ellie are.
They're going to hit I five and approach Seattle from
the north. They say that. This is then confirmed by
the sign on the freeway that says Seattle nine miles,
then Tacoma, then Portland. Clearly they're approaching from the north.
Then as they come to a point where Seattle and
the Space Needle are in view, it's a shot from

(03:12:53):
the south of Seattle with the space Needle on the left.
Come on, guys, even the game got seat right. Maybe
I'm being too nitpicky, but it's a simple thing that
could have been done right.

Speaker 2 (03:13:04):
Okay, I'm done. Keep the quality coming.

Speaker 1 (03:13:07):
You guys are seriously the best, and I can't wait
to listen to this week's episode.

Speaker 2 (03:13:10):
Love you guys, so boom a scathing indictment.

Speaker 1 (03:13:16):
From a Pacific Northwestern Barb. First, thank you for writing it.
I love you, and it's just so it's I'm so
happy that you're listening to the show. I know you
wanted to back in twenty twenty three, but Barb's life
was very hectic with moving and working and all that stuff,
and our episodes are so fucking long, there was just
no time. But she's deep into our season two review

(03:13:38):
shows and she was so frustrated about this moment with
Seattle in particular, and she was like, how would you feel?
She's like, this is equivalent to the Rocky Statue being
next to the fucking Liberty Bell instead of beside the
Art Museum in Philly, And I'm like, you're right, You're
literally right, Like these are very simple things that anyone

(03:14:03):
doing minimal research should be able to discern and basically
put a flag up of hey, this is not correct.

Speaker 2 (03:14:13):
So that's disappointing.

Speaker 1 (03:14:14):
I did not notice it because we are not nor
have we ever traveled together to the Pacific Northwest in particular,
or Seattle or Washington. So I just kind of was like, oh,
there's the space needle, you know.

Speaker 2 (03:14:26):
I just that's that was me. But yeah, I'm.

Speaker 1 (03:14:31):
Curious to know if any other Pacific Northwesters caught that,
and if so, do these kind of things irritate you.

Speaker 2 (03:14:38):
We've seen this happen, and we you and I have
seen this happen with Philadelphia on more than one occasion
because Philadelphia has actually been I mean, I'm sure this
hurts no one more than like New York, which is
on display in many, many movies, and I'm sure New
Yorkers are like, what the you know? But I think

(03:14:59):
of Rocky like when we have I don't know if
it's on this specific show, but we have talked at
length at least somewhere about Rocky's run, like his training
montage run, where it's like there's none of these neighborhoods
are connected, Like we see him here and then then
the next shot he's fifteen miles away, and then in

(03:15:20):
the next shot he's actually ten miles back, right, And
You're like, that doesn't make any That is the longest
run in history, right. I also think of the National
Treasure movie, the first one, Oh Yeah, where they get
from Independence Hall to the Franklin Institute in it's like
they run down a block and make a left, and

(03:15:40):
I'm like, that shit, we're they're four miles apart. Guy,
there's no world in which you're getting to the Franklin
Institute that fast. I look at it, I'm like, this
is hilarious. This is just for us, right, Like a
Philadelphian would look at that, and some of the m
Night Shyamalan movies too, have that same deal. I look
at it and I'm like, that's you know, I'm not

(03:16:02):
mad at it. They want to present Seattle in the
best possible light, and I imagine that that view of
it is probably the best possible light. I could be wrong,
but yeah, you no, no, in terms of its post
apocalyptic glory. I think having the water and the everything

(03:16:23):
off to the left ish that looked that shots and
it's stunning, but it's probably reversed. It probably looks good
the same. I don't know. It's hard to know, but
I'm like, yeah, I get it. I get it.

Speaker 1 (03:16:37):
I Yeah, I do too. You know, it's I think
what it is. I'm not I would never. I don't
think Barbier's being nitpicky. I think what happened to her
in that moment was she was taken out of the moment.
And that's what's frustrating, because she's so familiar with that thing.
And even what you talked about, like the Rocky Run,
as great as that sequence is, I actually can't watch

(03:17:01):
it now without laughing, and I'm like, this takes away
from what we're supposed to be viewing, and instead I'm like,
this motherfucker's running fifty miles around the goddamn city like Y.
So it's just one of those like the suspension of
disbelief is snapped and you're like, well, that's not fucking right.

Speaker 2 (03:17:18):
Shit, you know, I think about that. So we saw
that in Rocky, and I am with you that it
makes me laugh because he's like in Kensy. He's like
in Kensington and then he's in the Italian market and
you're like, what the But do you remember when we
watched Creed and they recreate very light spoilers for Creed.

(03:17:38):
They recreate that montage, like the training montage at the end,
and where he's running in Creed is those are like
continuous neighborhoods. So he's yes, if you that run, and
it was just as effective in terms of like the execution,
whereas like I wasn't taken out of it because I'm like, oh,
he's going from like Kensington to Liken to Port Richmond

(03:18:01):
and he's and that, you know, both get me emotional.
When I think about the Rocky training and the Creed training,
I'm like, Okay, yeah, that's my city. That's my city.

Speaker 1 (03:18:13):
Yeah, so I understand again possessiveness.

Speaker 2 (03:18:18):
I'm a very possessive person.

Speaker 1 (03:18:19):
So had I been from Seattle, I would be like, Wow,
what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (03:18:23):
But the show is canceled. Yeah, cancel HBO.

Speaker 1 (03:18:28):
But anyway, thank you Barb for writing in and please
continue to do so. But that is the end of
our episode three review for the Path, So thank you
all for listening with us. You can find us on Instagram,
at Telu Podcasts or blue Sky at Telu podcast our
email show. So I haven't really actually talked about this.

(03:18:49):
A lot of people are emailing and sending messages and stuff,
and I am compiling all of them into a document,
just like I.

Speaker 2 (03:18:55):
Did with season one.

Speaker 1 (03:18:56):
All of those will be read, but after we conclude
season The only reason why I included Barbes was because
it tied directly into what we were just reviewing and
I felt that it was a perfect fit.

Speaker 2 (03:19:08):
So there we go.

Speaker 1 (03:19:09):
Yeah, but if you would like to be featured on
an upcoming email show when we conclude this season, because
remember the only thing that we will be doing on
the last cast that will be public after season two
concludes our email shows, and maybe any kind of update
show or things like that going forward. But our Patreon

(03:19:30):
exclusive will be the game versus Frame, so comparing the
game to the show, but that will never go public.
That will always live on Patreon, which I'll talk about
a minute. But yes, email us if you would like
to be on a future show at tloupodcast at gmail
dot com. You can find us over on YouTube by
just looking us up at Telu Podcasts. You'll find our

(03:19:53):
Wayfar and Strangers videos, our last cast videos, all that
stuff over there. And speaking of Wayfar and Strangers, that
is our other show where we cover the Last of
Us Part one, and we will be getting the Last
of Us Part two shortly in great depth, just like
we do here on this show. So we'd love to
have you over there if you are interested, check it out.

(03:20:14):
If you would like to follow me on the internet,
you can do that at either Jaded Vader or Through
Wilderness which is thhru Wilderness like Through Hiking. And Andrew
can be found everywhere at Dark Driving or Andrew Barmley
over on Blue Sky.

Speaker 2 (03:20:30):
Damn right verified Yes, So.

Speaker 1 (03:20:34):
If yeah, we loved these Spotify reviews and getting to
get some insight and what you guys are feeling and
how you're receiving the show, and it's very direct and
it's instantaneous instead of waiting days and days for Apple
podcast reviews, so fuck that. But yeah, please feel free
to let us know your thoughts on this show over

(03:20:55):
on Spotify. Just yeah, look us up and you'll find us.
And we have an ex collaboration with I guess we
can talk about it now because it is official.

Speaker 2 (03:21:05):
It's being set up.

Speaker 1 (03:21:06):
Yes, this is really exciting, and this is for both
the Last Cast and Wayfar and Strangers, so we'll talk
about it on both, but it just was officially confirmed
after we had recorded Wayfaring, so we're talking about it
here first. But Alice Chocolates did a Last of Us
collaboration for the TV show and they are sending us

(03:21:29):
some free chocolates to try out and review and share
with all of you guys, along with a promo code.
So just yeah, next week we will give you that
code when it is officially live.

Speaker 2 (03:21:41):
But I'm so excited.

Speaker 1 (03:21:42):
This is our first collaboration and it's exhilarating. It's a
Last of Us product and a corporation that sees what
we're doing and wants to do this with us, and
that's pretty fucking validating. So thank you Ali Shaqas for
reaching out to us. I'm so excited to try your
product and let everyone know what we think about it.

(03:22:04):
So yeah, just hang tight for that promotional code and
we'll get that over and out to everyone and our
Patreon shout out to the wonderful Wizard of Oz Ozzie,
thank you so much for subscribing to the show, and barb.

Speaker 2 (03:22:25):
Our wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

Speaker 1 (03:22:27):
Beloved Barb who has such a history with this podcasting
journey that we've been on, and such a history with
me as my best friend. So yeah, thank you so much.
We love you guys. If you would like to go
and subscribe to our Patreon, we actually have two tiers live.
It was just initially the first one for five dollars

(03:22:49):
a month to get a shout out and ask access
to our discord which is always very busy and people
chatting back and forth and it's a good time over there,
along with the discount code to our merch store. But
now I've also unlocked the twenty five dollars a month,
which that will be our Game Versus Frame and any
and all exclusive shows from here.

Speaker 2 (03:23:10):
On out will live under that particular tier.

Speaker 1 (03:23:12):
So if you'd like to go and support our podcast,
we would very much greatly appreciate that, and you can
do that at patreon dot com slash t l ou
podcast until until our stuff goes live.

Speaker 2 (03:23:24):
You know, not much posting happening over there just yet. Yeah,
get on early and then just you know, let it
ride as it were. Fun way to support. Okay, well,
we'll be back next week, but until then, make sure
to check your six fiel, your chamber and keep those
make believe militia bastards in your crosshairs. Ew oh my goodness,

(03:23:47):
what a show. Thank you so much. We will chat
with y'all next week.

Speaker 1 (03:23:52):
Bye, see you in in stack in in in

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