7. Convergence

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to the Last Cast, HBO's unofficial Last of Us
recap podcast. This show hosted each week Buy Me, Jack
and Andrew, the Last of Us is back. Question, We'll
take a deeper look into the mega TV series. Event,
will break down, assess, compare, contrast, and have a little
bit of fun as we go. So grab yourself a

(00:46):
cup of Joel's favorite blend and let's get on with it.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
I'm looking at these comments.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh my, so many sorrow, sorrow, money, and I really
truly think that it would just be best to start,
So I'm going to go first.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, okay, and this.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
One actually is from Liam C and it came in
on episode five. So Liam says the show has been
dumbed down for suburban moms. That's how I see it, insane.
Can't wait to see you guys rip the last two
episodes apart, well, Liam considering episode six dropped this Monday,
and we're recording episode seven on Thursday. Enjoy We Yeah,

(01:34):
we hope that you're enjoying the content and the rippage
because it's not going to stop.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yeah. Well yes, sometimes, man, Oh, I see why you
decided to go first.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
I'm so clever.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
I just I was just not clever enough to read
ahead two lines. This is from Lemon condom. Ozzie says
it's meant to be lighthearted and funny. In quotes, it's
meant to be lighthearted and funny. Yes, you're correct, But
do we need lighthearted and funny in every episode? This
isn't scary movie on Craig we Bust. Anyways, I agree

(02:16):
with you all on this episode. It's interesting.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
It's interesting, yeah, because that's kind of the counter argument
that I see people on Reddit or Instagram or threads
or things like that when anyone bites back the way,
especially you know I in particular have on this episode
or not this episode, on this show, rather on this
podcast as a whole. People are always like, you know,

(02:40):
there's supposed to be moments of lightheartedness and funniness and
it's fine, And I'm like, no, no, it's not like
if you actually knew anything about the Last of Us,
you would know. I'm pretty sure Ellie doesn't smile even
once throughout all of Part fucking two.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
So like, I don't stop stop as a television show.
I get it. I get the need to vent the
pressure a little bit, sure, but it does seem to
be a little excessive in this season, where it's like, well,
we haven't even really built up a lot of pressure,
so we're just venting, just venting a little bit of steam,

(03:19):
which is, you know, not ideal. So in the right moment,
a well placed joke in the context of a horror
movie is maybe the greatest thing you'll ever experience, you
know what I'm saying. That could have been true here too,
But there's a little little much, yeah, way too much.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
And I'm pretty sure I said in episode four or
five when they were in the office building before the
stalkers and all that part and declaring their love for
each other, I'm like, what the fuck is this? Like?
What we went from being, you know, rushing rushing past

(03:59):
the search light to I love mel Oh my god,
you love me. It's like you're you're cutting tension that
is barely built.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, and we get that. We got that quip in
that same scene of like the empty and Cole haunted,
haunted just like us, you know, So yeah, I get it.
I mean I get the impulse to add a joke there,
but let us get a little bit horrified first.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, you know, Yeah, it's just it's poorly done. That's
everything was poor, so so poorly done. That says from
Michael r Our next comment, and Michael says, I wonder
at times how an animated TLU series would be as
much as I love the first season in live action.
How about a cartoon with the real voice actors from
the game. Just think about it anyway. I agree. Why

(04:48):
does Ellie remind me of an entitled teen brat? It's
not who she is at all. Where's badass Ellie? Where's
the goddamn rage she had in the game. It's not
there in the show. In Craig we Bust, buddy boy,
you lost it and you call yourself a damn fan.
Stop ruining my world? Man, oh man, Michael, I'm with

(05:11):
you this honestly, since episode two. This has been the
biggest struggle busts of my life the last fucking six weeks.
And you know, on Craig We Bust, we don't have
to talk more about that until, you know, we get
to more examples. But I want to focus on how
an animated Last of Us series would be, and I

(05:34):
think that that would be fucking fantastic. And I'm not
one Listen, I've been a part of Star Wars podcasting
like extremely in depth, not quite as in depth as
these podcasts between Wayfair and Strangers and the Last Cast,
but the podcast that I was on certainly had like

(05:54):
a focal point at the end of like the third
act of our episodes always had a strong focal point
on one particular question, and I really liked that level
of focus. However, sometimes that would talk about Star Wars
rebels or the Clone Wars or things like that. And
while I was an m still an enormous Star Wars fan,

(06:18):
I never really dove headfirst into the animated series, and
I regret that now because there is so much room
that you can do in an animated capacity that you
can't do even in live action with seemingly endless budgets.
And I feel like, if you have the right tone,
if you have the right actors, if you have the

(06:40):
right directors and scriptwriters, there's really nothing that they would
not be able to take from the games and put
into an animated series. For the Last of Us, and
especially if they brought back Ashley Johnson and Troy Baker
and I mean just all the supporting cast, it would
be I would very much excited again for a Last

(07:01):
of Us series to dive into with you in the future.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, I'm a little I'm always a little hesitant about
this sort of thing, and this is maybe my own
bias about animated stuff. Sure, I don't want to say
that I look at it as less then, but when
somebody tells me that a property that I like is
being adapted for animation, it immediately just for me is

(07:30):
a lower priority overall.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
I get that sense, and I feel like I've lived
with That's how I felt with all the Star Wars
Rebels and Clone Wars. But I feel like I missed
out on a lot. Yeah, well, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
So for me, it is very dependent on the style
of animation, because there is some stuff that I just
cannot or will not watch, right, So like same, I
have some I I was thinking about this while you
were talking about this, and I was like, Okay, there
are some things recently that I have watched that were

(08:06):
animated that I loved. However, they are things that I
have a proclivity towards, and the Last of Us is
one of those, which is great, So it already has
a leg up. So like your friendly neighborhood Spider man,
I loved it. I watched that all in like two
three days something like that. It was great. Harley Quinn
on Max I love that show again, something I'm very

(08:27):
much in the bag for anyway, though, I think about
something that I kind of had to be dragged to
that turned out to be excellent. That was Arcane on Netflix.
So Bellow actually watched that before I did and told
me that it was great, and many other people did too,
But I was like, ah, I don't really care about
I've never played League of Legends, I never will. Just

(08:51):
definitely not my kind of game. But that show was
maybe some of the best animation I've ever seen in
my life, and I can't believe that it was that it.
I can't believe they spent that much money on a
Netflix show. I'll just put it that way. It's one
of the best looking animated things I've seen, short of
like Spider Verse. Okay, and so those a couple. That's

(09:15):
just a couple examples of like those. None of those
things have commonality really. I also really like BoJack Horsemen,
which looks to be more hand drawn, right sure, and
so like you put those things next to each other,
there's not really a ton in common, So I guess
it really just boils down to, like, is it not
actively turning me off the animation? And then is it

(09:36):
something that I already enjoy in terms of subject matter.
So I'd be cautiously optimistic about a Last of Us thing,
and probably even more willing to try it if they
got that original voice cast back. I will say that
because I like them a lot.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, yes, I think that that's I actually think I'm
slightly more open to it and you are in this instance.
And whether that's because I've softened my views on some animation,
but again, I'm with you with it has to be
a very specific type style and vibe. Otherwise I'm not

(10:15):
gonna watch it, and I'm not going to name my
likes or my dislikes or anything like that because I
don't want it to come off as anything other than
just that's my preference and it is what it is.
But yeah, I don't know. I think because the show
is so bad now that it's like, what are other
options beyond just playing the video game and having this

(10:35):
in some sort of other medium. But at this point
I'm fine with the game series, Like I'm good, I'm
good to just go back there because I'm never going
to rewatch season two of the Last of Us, like
literally never. I will go back and watch season one
now because having both complete seasons, I can tell you
that I listen. I know I bitched quite a bit

(10:56):
towards the end of season one, like from episode six
to nine, and I still stand by what I said.
Things fell apart. The pacing was completely off, the decisions
were odd, but it was so much fuck and better
than whatever happened in the seven very short episodes of
season two. So anyway, okay.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
There it is from Espernard. Okay, the way this works
out in the game makes more sense. Time heals wounds
and offers reflection. We make different decisions as time goes by.
Our pacing here is rough. Two years makes more sense.
Hard to see how we go from obviously not trusting
him at the end of season one to being daddy daughter.

(11:42):
You're not my dad. Reminded me of the l we
knew in season one. Cold openings in episode one and
two for season one are the type of scariness they
needed to capture Fawn over spaceship, but maybe not turn
into a ten year old. Actions were to hurt Joel
collateral for Gail.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yep, yeah, yeah, I mean I don't have much more
to add because that seems to reaffirm a lot of
what we talked about in episode six. But what Ellie
did was yeah, was to Herchel and it was collateral
damage for Gail, and that's fucked up.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
So our next comment from Rachel K Thank god, this
fever dream we've collectively been experiencing is finally over. What
a dumpster fire. By the time I had finished the
first season, I'd watch each episode at least five times.
I don't intend to watch season two again. Pacing is wrong,
writing's wrong. Mason's taken everything I loved about season one

(12:46):
and turned it into something unrecognizable. I will tune in
to hear your final recap as I enjoy the podcast.
I hope you take care of yourself this week. What
a mess, Rachel. I could not agree more. It's like
we're sitting next to each other saying the same thing
and cheersing our glasses together because.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
It was.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
It was a dumpster fire. In fact, our brother in law, Mike,
who we've talked about on the show a couple of times. Hi, Mike,
and Susan and Seamus Wow the crew. So he had
asked in our text group quick thoughts, what do you
think about season two? And you had given I think

(13:29):
two full sentences and I just literally sent the person
throwing an item into the trash can emoji that was
and I was like, it's just trash, like I just
throw it out like just I'm gonna pretend like this
shit never happened. So, okay, that's that's my quick thoughts.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
There it is, there, it is.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
I can be brief, Okay, I can be brief.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Just not on this show but in general sometimes. Yes
from Michael W you, Oh, I am no stranger to
your feelings on Neil part two and Sweet Marlene, But
that's okay. I still love listening to Wayfaring and look
forward to part two casts. Speaking of Marlene, the way

(14:16):
Craig introduced her into the show is the first sign
of his misunderstanding Ellie, but that is a topic for
an email. I think I didn't listen to last cast
one aside from the finale, so I will double back
and see what you had to say about the pilot.
Thank you for sharing. I am all ears, endure and survive.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
And then Pindejo and.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Then I call and then he called me an asshole.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
I think collectively called love. I feel like it's a
loving remark now. And Michael seems like he's been no
stranger to Wayfaring because he knows how I feel about
Neil and part two and Marlon Sweet. Really I tour
Marlene to literal shreds on Wayfair and Strangers and I
have zero regrets. Ask me if I have regrets. None.

(15:01):
So so thank you for being a very long time listener, Michael.
We appreciate you. And when or if you definitely do
go back and listen to the last cast season one,
I will say that our energies or anticipations and hopes
were very high, and I think that our review of
episode one of season one was probably a shining gold star.

(15:24):
Things have changed. It was a longer I remember that was.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
A long episode, right, That was like a ninety minute episode.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
A lot of their episodes were like an hour and
fifteen and so.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, and so you know, when you're when you're feeling
things out, when you're getting to know the world as
interpreted by people, you're like, wow, okay, some changes, some alterations,
but there were some good performances in that episode. There's
some good performances in season one, you know, sure? I agree?
Cold Open Flashback really well done.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Oh yeah, per God, that was so good. I love
those were so menacing and I miss them. What happened anyway?
From jess our thank you Jack for continuing. I know
it's been distressing, but I still look forward to the episodes.
Best parts of the show have been the expansion of
side characters and when they actually follow the game go figure.

(16:21):
I think they could have made some really great moments
if they followed the narrative more closely. It's just so unfortunate.
The pacing also needs to be Redone discussion point, how
would you have lined up the narrative in the episodes?
The story needed more episodes to properly fit. So this
is tough to talk about because I feel like I

(16:46):
would have restructured this season a lot differently, And I'm
afraid to talk about what I would have done because
I feel like it will spoil all of season three. Maybe,
So yeah, I don't know how much I can say.
I would just say that episode one, while it was
probably the strongest episode of this entire season, where they

(17:08):
were in Jackson and showing the world and this, that
and the other. It was kind of unnecessary and not
that I would want to go right into Joel's death
in episode one, but it would leave more room for
a shorter season overall, with shorter time, a short amount

(17:29):
of time per episode, and two fewer episodes compared to
season one. I just would have moved things along. I
would have made stronger decisions earlier on and then flip
flopped between A and B. And that's all I can
really say.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
I think, well, here's the deal. Based on the very
final sequence of this finale. I think that basically sets
up what the premise for season three is going to be,
doesn't Huh. So we're not really I don't think we're
spoiling anything.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
That's actually a question that I have for the literal
end of this show, and I don't want to talk
about it because I don't know if people who haven't
played the game really understand what that means.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Okay, so I can say two things then that wouldn't
that would also not spoil potentially what season three is,
and still put on my show runner hat is I
believe they hued too closely to the game in terms
of the structure and trying to do this day one,

(18:35):
day two, day three thing that Ellie goes through. I
would just take that out entirely, Like it doesn't matter
what for the sake of a television show. Very rarely
does a clock or a day mean anything unless we're
talking about a bomb, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
And it doesn't mean anything in this show either. That's yeah,
So I don't know why we had it at all.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Like, unless there's a again, a literal ticking clock of
some kind, then I don't need to know what day
or what time it is. Ever.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
I think a really good example of how clock and
time worked super fucking well in something extremely recent is
Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning. Yeah, they had a literal
world clock that was counting down seventy two hours to
an event. Sure that was referenced because it fucking had

(19:33):
to be.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
That happens in many mission of us.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Oh, I know, but I'm just we literally Bella and
I went to go see the movie again yesterday together,
so it's very fresh in my mind, and I think
that that's the way that you do. Time has to
matter if you are making it matter and what does
day one, two, and three of Ellie's journey mean at
the and honestly, in the game, what does it mean

(19:58):
there too? There is there's no countdown or count up.
It's just it's literally the name of this episode on
HBO is convergence. It is just a convergence of two
factors at the end coming together. But there was zero special.
There was nothing significant about the three day mark. Ellie
and Abby were not going like, oh, in three fucking days,

(20:21):
I'm gonna be at the theater and see her. They
had no conscious awareness of that going on. We knew it,
but in their minds, their journey was just I'm taking
this a day at a time, motherfuckers. Yes, So, and
maybe this is a little glimpse at how I feel
about the day one, two three shit in the game.
I never thought that that was important ever, and I

(20:44):
still don't because it has no impact on anything. In fact,
it makes some events that happened in the game a
lot less believable for me, because I'm like, no, that's no.
But we can't talk about that sofia, because nobody knows
about it.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
So yeah, I think I've I think I've said this
on a previous episode of this show, maybe the last one.
I can't remember. I talked too much and then I
forget what I say, but I do. I am a
sucker for the same story told from a different perspective, right,
Like in movies, like if we see a scene and

(21:22):
then then later on in the movie, like via flashback
or just as an epilogue or whatever, we see that
same thing play out from a completely different angle. Oh
we did. It was on the last episode because we
saw Joel's side of the dance, right. I'm a sucker
for that. I love that. But again, you don't necessarily

(21:42):
need to tell me, like they didn't need to say,
like you know, they did in this show a lot
of handholding. Let's just be clear about what it is.
It's handholding. Sure, I think people would have put it
together when they saw the lights and the location and
that Joel still alive, like, oh, this is the thing
we watched earlier. So that's all I say. So my

(22:05):
showrunner hat says, I would remove the days. It doesn't
even need to be there, just me understanding that time
is elapsing because this scene is nighttime, this scene is daytime.
It's like, okay, a day has passed. Okay, great. The
other thing I would do narratively is, and people are
going to maybe laugh at this, Okay, I would make

(22:27):
Ellie less likable. Now, you might say, Andrew, I already
don't like Ellie, and that's a perfectly valid critique.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, but I don't like her for the wrong reasons.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yes, I would change Ellie's character to be outright less likable.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Oh yeah, I know what you're trying to say. She's
supposed to be vicious and alienating.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Correct, Yeah, she's supposed to be I think Dina would have.
Dina was a great counter blence if Ellie was more
cold and calculating like Dine's. Narratively, I'm like, you can't
have two characters that are kind of the same, Like,

(23:14):
you should have one and then the balance for that,
and then that would make sense for the relationship. Also,
the kind of whole opposites attract thing. This person's very
troubled and dark and cold and brooding, and then this
person's very light and bubbly and I use quote unquote
happy but like happy, you know, Yeah, then we have

(23:34):
a nice balance. So those are the two things right
off the top of my head. Showrunner wise, I would
have made more distinct remove the time in the days
and push Ellie towards the darkness, which also gives you
a chance for a redemption arc if somebody there's character growth,
if we know, like she's solidly on this side of things,

(23:56):
then maybe later she sees the light or something like that.
You know, like, you can't just be in the middle
the whole time. Yeah, there's no hero's journey of just
staying in the middle.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
She wasn't even in the middle. She just wasn't even
a fucking part of it.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, yeah, Okay, this one comes from zombie Tom. Huh.
Thanks for the gifts of Jewel's surprise and it's getting
dark sound cues. I giggled with glee like a madman
on my way to work Tuesday morning. Laul no offense
Jack to episode six and changed opinions strongly held, ma'am.

(24:31):
There's nothing else to say for the lack of overall
quality this season. Heartbreaking, but not unexpected. We caught glimpses
of greatness. I felt it in episode six. In episode two.
That's what sucks, wasted potential, tiny pieces what could have been.
Here's to the discourse to come through.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, I think that that's Uh. You can hear the
disappointment in Zombie Tom comment there, because it's just like
the resignation of this is not what any of us
really wanted and it could have been great, but ultimately
it wasn't. And that's sad, as mad as I get,
as upset as I get and have gotten on this

(25:12):
show sometimes at the end of the day, just it's
sad because this isn't what it was supposed to be.
And I think a lot of us are feeling that
right now. Yeah, that tricks our next comment from Eric H. Well,
since you asked if I had the power to dictate
Jack and Andrew content, what I choose Station eleven an

(25:34):
underseen HBO masterpiece that I revisit once per year. There's
not enough Station eleven related content anyway, I think I
figured it out. Craig thinks stalkers only stalk young women.
If there's a male savior in the house, they just
throw themselves at him. Yeah, I mean, in.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Life, I believe probably stalker's only stalk young women. If
I had to say true an actual stalker, that might
be true. You might be able the.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Majority, their majority are certainly stalking cases legitimately that have
gone to quarter or been prosecuted and so on and
so forth. Are usually men stalking women. That doesn't mean
that it's all because I mean, I've certainly heard of
nightmare instances of women doing the same more similar and
it's it's not the best.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, every couple of years I hear about a woman
who breaks into Keanu Reeves house and uh, I'm just like,
how does this guy not have a better security?

Speaker 1 (26:32):
He's just too trusting. But going back to Eric's earlier
comment and talking about us potentially covering other content, because
that was that was a part of our commentary from
last week. I did watch Station eleven. Andrew and I
watched Station eleven together. Yeah, I will say that the
first episode was one of the best episodes of TV

(26:53):
that I recall, But after that the story kind of
fell apart from me personally not me. Yes, So I
don't think that I will be a part of that breakdown.
If Andrew River decides to do a Station eleven show,
I'm sorry. I don't want to be disappointing because I
knew nothing about that show going into it. I know

(27:16):
it's a book, but I haven't read the book, and
it just the tone changed very much for me. But
I did love certain elements throughout the season which kept
me watching the show. And I will say, of course
that it was better than the List of Us season two,
so I'll give it that. But it's just I have
to be very much like passionately in love with something

(27:40):
to take it to this level of creativity, and I
just don't. Yeah, so I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
We could do just one offs, you know what I'm saying.
It doesn't you know, there's so much work. You go in,
you do the notes, we have pages of notes. There's structure, sure,
there's editing. You know, it's a three to one ratio
of hours edited versus editing. Whatever. You know, I may

(28:08):
I propose the alternative where you just kind of show
up and talk impromptu and we use Wikipedia as our guy.
Maybebe doesn't have to be every project doesn't have to
be three thousand percent effort. Only the List of US.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
I know, it's just tough for me. It's yeah, I
don't know, But like I just put in the word
counter or I copy and paste it all the way
and it's almost like seventy five hundred words just for this,
just for this episode alone, and this was much lighter
on the notes, So I would say the average is
like ten thousand words per episode.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
See, and what I would say is, let's go in.
Let's let's go in with zero.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
No, I can't do that.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Just your thoughts and feelings, just your thoughts and feelings.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
My thoughts and feelings are chaotic and ADHD fueled.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
I need a script, and yet I hear the audiences.
To hear the audiences, Oh.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
My god, actually over, I guess this is a fun
little tangent over on our coffee page for this week
or was it no last week? Because we took a
two to three week break on Wayfair and just to
finish this show and give my brain a little bit
of a vent. And I did like a twenty minute
recording of like what I'm playing, but also like ten

(29:26):
minutes of that is just like what I'm I was like, listen,
I don't have a script. I don't know what the
fuck I'm gonna say.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
So here we are, like, yeah, he turned at Bill
BurrH for a little bit. Yeah, okay, listen up here,
here's what we're gonna do.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, few motherfucker's gotta go.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, give me a mite anyway. So yeah, sometimes the
chaos is okay, but three hours of chaos absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
No. All, what I'm suggesting again is no sixty minutes
hard cap done. I know you don't want to hear that.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Everyone, but Andrew Andrew's sweet sweet spot. So right, Oh
my god, let's get through these comments so we can
get down this show.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
All right, this is from Vaded. Vada says, okay, so
two things. Can we please start calling him Mason? He
doesn't deserve the respect of being talked about on a
first name basis any longer, and being Craig. I will
soon need therapy with all this Craig bashing.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Second, I've been trying to say a Mazon because I
remember this.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
You just let me all right. Second, I might be
a little obsessed with the watch issue, because did y'all
see Arby's watch? He wrote that on purpose, calling Abby
Arbi as she's looking over the Seahawks slash WLF stadium.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Oh I saw it.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
I did not notice it.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Oh I saw it. I clocked it immediately, and we'll
talk about it. Don't worry. Don't worry, Evaded, Okay, don't worry.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Don't worry. Good Craig, Good Craig. We can see good Craig,
bad Craig. Baby, we could say on Amazing that that
might work.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
That's oh, that might work.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Actually instead of he was amazing, now he's on amazing.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
I'm I'm into it. I'm into it. But all right, yeah, okay, yeah,
we'll do better. We'll do better. Our next comment is
from Liam c again, and this one was on episode six.
This show fucking sucks and it's great to hear you
both rip into it. I don't even care about season three. Wow,
you know what, Liam, I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
It's tough. Yeah, that's a tough, tough way to go.
All right, fair enough. Next one comes in from Jackson Wolves.
I love that name, Jackson Wolves. Well, yeah, is that
a dubstep reference? We'll see.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
I went to the Magneto sound in X Men First
Class at the end.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
You know, nope, never heard of it. Hun Jackson Wolbs says,
there is an overwhelming sense of relief that this season
is over. What the hell was that fucking die in here?
In fact, that millions of show watchers will only have
this view of Telu is such a disservice to me.

(32:31):
To it. In my opinion, perfect game series in an
era of remakes and live actions, this stands out as
a as potentially the most disappointing. A huge thank you
to you both for keeping up with this. We can
all see how much work you put in and the
toll it takes looking forward to Jack ripping apart the
last episode because.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Come on, well, Jackson, your wish is my command, and
want to make on we get through these comments, That's
exactly what's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Okay, don't bury the lead or anything.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
No, oh please, we have one thousand percent senioritis is
just in my veins right now. I could give all
falk but from alex Are I'm convinced they made Ellie
unlikable so that the upcoming Full Abbey season would be
a breath of fresh air for everyone. Won't hear complaints
from anyone asking, geez, can we return to Ellie's story?

(33:28):
Have you ever read a book or watched a show
where there's that one character that you don't want to revisit.
In this show, she happens to be the quote main protagonist.
If you can even call Ellie the main protagonist anymore.
It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays
off for them.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Wow, I love a dodgeball reference. So good.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
This is a great pull. I think there might be
some basis to that of making Ellie so unlikable, but
for all the wrong reasons. We were supposed to dick
like Ellie because she basically loses her fucking mind in
the rage and madness of this revenge mission and some
of the horrific shit she was supposed to do in
the killings and the attacks and whatever, and none of

(34:13):
that happened in season two, literally none of it. Everything
was an almost or a miss. And then she beats Laura,
she beats Nora but doesn't kill her, and then what
happens with Melan Owen in this episode, and then basically
cries and apologizes like, I don't this is not I

(34:33):
don't know who this person is. I'm literally Mariah Carey
at this point. I don't know her. So I can't
stand Ellie for all the wrong reasons. There is no
redemption for a character who has wildly underperformed.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
And we'll see. Yeah, and here's an example. I think again,
I clearly have not read ahead with these comments. This
is Alex already doesn't like Ellie, right, and again I'll
just reinforce I believe the point of the story is
that we're not actually supposed to like Ellie. But again,
it's all for the wrong reasons. And I think I'm

(35:11):
reinforcing what you say if she had a more definitive goal,
like I don't know, I don't know what she wants,
and so I don't know what I have no expectations
of this character because I don't know what she wants,
because it doesn't seem like she wants what she set
out to do, and I don't know. It's it's a

(35:31):
whole thing. But here's what I will say. I think
of the younger actors that we have, and I include
Kaitlyn Deaver in this She's the strongest of the young actors,
Caitlyn Deaver, at least in my experience of what I've seen.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Her in Oh and it's not even fucking close.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
And so I do believe that when we see more
of her in season three, people will have that feeling
of connection. I mean, if the writing. It actually all
comes down to the writing, because you can have the
best actor in the world, and if the writing isn't
good then all they're delivering is just terrible dialogue and

(36:10):
exposition and all this stuff. So I'm just saying she
has the edge Caitlyn Deaver does in terms of being
a really, really strong actor. So we'll see how that
plays out.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yeah, And I mean, Kaitlyn Diver was my top choice
for Ellie and she and I still stand by the
fact that the two minutes that she was in this episode,
she outperformed everyone from the entire fucking season and that
is what we could have had all season. And it

(36:45):
fucking sucks.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
It just sucks. Tony Dalton and Caitlyn Deaver.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
Can you I mean, can you imagine that that again?
You know? But but you said it. If the writing
isn't there, if the directing is poor, then you're still
to end up with a shitty product and great actors.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah, I would be. So I would have to think
hard for a project where that is true, where they
had all of the right people in place, but the
just all of the underlying story and plot was bad.
It has to exist. I'm sure I've seen it. I
would just have to know. I would just have to
think a little bit on I have an example. Okay,
the last of us.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
No, yes, but and I feel like I might be
in the minority with this, and I don't. I don't
care hot take. No, no, no, it's not that big of
a movie. It really isn't. But Kong Skull Island with
Tom Hidleston and some other big names. Tom Hiddleston is
a fucking great actor, and we have seen that time

(37:45):
and again. Specifically in his role is low key, but
not just that, like I've seen other movies with him
in it and he is solid in every performance. But
whatever the fucking director and scriptwriter and everything else told
him to do in that movie, I hated it. I
was like, he's a fucking clown. He's literally clown choosing

(38:08):
around this entire fucking movie. I can't stand. I can't.
This is the worst performance I've ever seen from this actor.
And I remember we I had seen it with my dad,
like we all went and saw together, and even my
dad was like, that fucking sucked. Like it was so
over the top, like just like whatever direction and directive
cues that he were given, like picture somebody just overacting

(38:32):
so severely that like just cringe. Every scene was just
fucking cringe.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yes, yeah, I think that was kind of going for something.
I see where you're coming from, especially in light of
the movies that came after that one specifically. Yeah, but
I think they were going for a little bit of
like a niness because you know, Bree Larsen's also in

(39:02):
that movie, and she's fantastic and everything. John Goodman was
in that movie. You know, they definitely had talent bad. Yeah,
it just depends on how how much you want to
juggle this little bit of campiness and if you're what,
you're comfortable, how comfortable you are with it. I don't
I'm not going to die on the hill of like
that was a good movie, because I haven't rewatched it

(39:22):
since we saw it, so I just remember like thinking
there were some silly parts and I was like, I
take it or leave It's Sam Jackson. Sam Jackson was
in that movie too. We had many Avengers in that movie. Actually, Yeah,
it was just.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
It was no. I was like, this is I wanted
to like it. I wanted to like it, and it
had a dark tone and it had some vicious moments,
but just like the vibe, I was just like, I'm done.
I'm tapping out the songs.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Somebody clipped that somebody clipped that sound. Yeah, send us
your examples of bad movies or television shows with good actors.
I'd like to hear that. I'll come up with my own.
By the time we get to the reader mailbag episode,
I will have one pretty sure go.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
I'm going to take the next comment because it's very quick,
but this is from raychard T or Richard T and
it is where's the Otter? And they were quoting me
from last episode? And I can't say anything about that.
I can't say anything about that. But if you're asking me,
was it intentional? The answer is yes, Okay, yeah, that's

(40:40):
all we could say. That's all we're willing to say
on that.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yep. Next question, this one comes from Sam says, hi hi,
Hi Sam. I'm going to read this as it is typed.
Here we go. I can't agree more about Ellie eating
the cake with her hands. Why are they making her
so childish? Childish as if she hasn't needed to grow up,

(41:03):
as if she never matured through all she's been through.
It's so disappointing that she isn't being displayed as the
intelligent and complex young woman that she is in the games.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Sam completely agree nothing more to add that wouldn't be
so minumbingly repetitive because we are one hundred percent simpatico.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
There you go. I think we suggested a better way
to approach that scene. Last week. We put on our
showrunner hats for that as well, So there you go.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah, and that was a great example that you put
forth with her using her switchblade, so she's not acting
out of turn or like a toddler, but it actually
utilizes something from her core character. But you know, what
do we know?

Speaker 2 (41:48):
What do we know?

Speaker 1 (41:49):
From Amy mcattack, I will focus on this glaring injustice.
Besides a very brief mention from Jesse saying Shimmer was
doing okay, not great, but okay. In the old music shop,
there was no visual confirmation of our beloved and hard
working horse. She hauled their asses all the way to Seattle.
And by the way, how did he know that she

(42:12):
was in there? I'm pretty sure the shop was boarded up. Well,
we will have to wait till next season. Another disappointment
to add to the list. Jesus Mason hashtag justice for Shimmer.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
If I may, Amy mac, please do not hold your
breath for an update on Shimmer next season.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
You're not going to get it. Yeah, you're not going
to get it. Shimmer. Shimmer is going to go to
the farm. Wait a minute, and live a really good life.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
You're telling them that there's a far away farm where
we're going to take our girls, Shimmer and she's going
to live.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Out the rest of her days happily.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yes, I don't know about this. Bad feelings, been feelings. Okay,
all right, just keep Shimmering. Just put a pin in that.
We'll yeah, we'll see if we hear from Shimmer. Lots
of pin again. Very again, very good. This one comes
from jen V. I thought the moment when Joel seemed

(43:11):
homophobic was very weird as well. I was actually surprised
he didn't know about her sexuality already. I thought that
was a weird choice for the show and I didn't
even play the game.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
See see this is just it was. It was very
misplaced and out of character, and it affirms me so
much when people who have no knowledge of the games
feel so similarly similarly to how we express ourselves on
this show in both you know, the nitpicky moments, but

(43:45):
also I think big conversational topics like this one, because
Joel never was like that that was never a part
of his character, his vibe, his relationship with Ellie, whether
he knew or not, like it just it was put
in there to be divisive, maybe to help us understand
Ellie pushing him away more. It was cheap, that's all

(44:06):
was It was cheap.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah. Again, we don't have to be the dead horse.
We don't have to be the dead shimmer. Oh no,
we only needed one bigot on the show, or even
one thought of a concept of a person who might
have bigotry. We don't need another one of that, So

(44:28):
we get it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Our next comment was not officially submitted to us, but
it is from our cousin, Erica, my bestie, and she
wanted me to focus on how I believe. On this
latest episode of the official podcast, Mason called Ellie incompetent. Wow,

(44:53):
ye just flat out And I heard the audio he
just called. He flat out calls Ellie incompetent and he
doesn't believe that she is literally capable of being on
the mission that she's on. And in my head, first
of all, I mean, he's so wildly fucking wrong. But
we've been saying that for weeks now. But in my head,

(45:14):
and I am no staunch defender of Neil Druckman. But
if I was Neil or Holly in that moment hearing
this person who was hired to adapt the characters that
I had created and developed say those words about that
character when they are incorrect, I would just be like,

(45:38):
who the fuck do you think you are? Because I'm
in the process of writing a book right now, and
I know that when that is published, in all the
subsequent books after it, people will love it. It will
be their favorite book ever. And then there will be
people who are like, this is the biggest fucking waste
of time I've ever experienced. But I could never imagine

(45:59):
myself hiring one of those people who completely misinterpreted my
characters and bastardize them in a way that they are
unrecognizable to fans, deep loyal fans of the game. That
would be equivalent to me sitting across from the director
or writer that I had hired to adapt my book

(46:21):
look me in the fucking eyes and tell me my
character was incompetent. I would be like, you are dead
fucking wrong and fired by the way, or I revoke
my rights to this property. But nothing is said. Nobody
pushes back because everybody just had their fucking pockets lined

(46:43):
by HBO in the studios and this, that and the other,
and I listen, everyone's got a price, and I guess
they don't care anymore. But fuck that. Ellie, Ellie, Ellie, listen.
Was she fully competent of every single thing? No, she
wasn't a Mary Sue in the games. She never was

(47:04):
a Mary Sue in the games. So I won't sit
here and listen to people that are like, she's flawless,
she's perfect. She could have done anything, she could have
beaten anything, she could have taken everything. No, she was
still a person at the end of the day and
suffered greatly, not just physically but mentally. That happens throughout

(47:25):
the game, and you see this devolution, devolution of who
she is, and it is heartbreaking and gut wrenching. But
Craig thinks she's incompetent and that she's a child, and
that Dina has parent parental control over her, and everybody
else is stronger and more capable. Craig needs to go. Sorry,

(47:50):
A Mazon needs to go. Not Unamazing, Yeah, Unamazing needs
to get gone.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
I don't want to get too far field here, but
I want to bring something up to you and see
what your thoughts are because I was thinking about this
for real, for real as you're reading this. And here's
the deal. I've never listened to an episode of the
official Last of Us podcast for the show. I should
say I did listen to the one about the game.
It's a different thing, but yeah, there's that. What official

(48:21):
companion shows or podcasts do you watch? Do you?

Speaker 1 (48:25):
I don't know, Actually I've listened. I did listen to
the Chernobyl podcast. Actually, okay, so that but that and
that had yes it did, Okay, it hazing on it.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Yes, all right, So I'm going to float out one
that I think you maybe watched, and then another one
that I know you've listened to in podcast form, So
office ladies, right, Yes, so that's I mean, not regularly,
but you at least listened to a good chunk of that.
And then did you watch the one that was for

(48:57):
the Rings of Power?

Speaker 1 (48:59):
No? No, I and I am a huge fan of
the Rings of Power, and I know that people very much,
the people who are loyal readers and followers dislike that show,
and I respect that opinion because I have not read
enough to put myself in that group yet, sure, but

(49:19):
the changes that were made and what was adapted, and
given the fact that it was like they brought members
of Tolkien's family in like it was, it was very
much loved and handled with care, but it just changed directions,
so it wasn't like what we were given on the
Rings of Power. I don't actually believe ever existed in

(49:43):
any kind of book format. It was hinted at, but
it was never fully depicted, and people are just like, oh,
Tolkien would never have done something like that. Ah, but
I'm like, okay, but means he never did something like that,
So you don't know if he would have or not.
You weren't him, so I think there's more wiggle room
and grace to be had when when it comes to that.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Yeah, it's like a kind of your guess is as
good as ours type of situation.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yes, okay, so, but no, I did not listen to
the official I didn't even know there was an official. Sorry.
I thought one of my baby eagles was about to
fly and fledge. Oh my god, almost Sonny was literally
going to town flapping his wings and then hovered for

(50:31):
the longest time, like two feet above the branch and
then let the wind take him back to the nest
and landed. Oh my god, Oh my god, it's happening.
Everybody's listening. I've been obsessed with the Big Bear Eagles
since January and watched them literally every day. They are
on in our house still every single day. Yeah, just
because I haven't.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Talked to school screens.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
So yeah, and that was my heart was in my
fucking throat. Oh that was so beautiful. Sorry anyway, No, I.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Go back because I feel like these official Companion podcasts
and television shows are maybe not good for us. I
don't always want to hear from the people involved, at
least at length. Yeah, I'm thinking of the ones that
I liked. There's an exception to this rule. And again

(51:21):
this is because it's an exception to every everything else
as well. I listened to the Breaking Bed and Better
Call Sault Insider podcasts, which had someone from the cast,
often the crew, the creators, the writer, the editor, just
always a smattering of five to six people. The way

(51:41):
they talked about their own work was so self effacing,
so open to interpretation, so inviting that it was maybe
one of the most enriching Companion pieces that I've ever
had to a piece of media. Ever, It's wonderful and
it still holds up guaranteed.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Yeah, remember you talking about that quite a bit, and
that was always on my to do list. But I
think the key factor in all of that is the
self effacing point, because everything that I have heard from
people who listen to the official podcast, in particular for
the Last of Us, is that Troy, Neil and Mason

(52:23):
basically just the expression these days is called glazing.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Yeah, that's what AI does to you.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Sometimes all they do is just stroke each other's egos
and reaffirm and and they even go so far as
I've heard a few times that that Troy's interpretations of
things have been viewed by Neil and Mason as wrong

(52:50):
and they basically bully him. Not in the traditional like
oh you're fucking wrong, you're an idiot kind of shit,
but like I wish it was that, but yeah, like
just be that way, because that's really how they're treating
him at the end of the day. And he's not
standing up for himself, he's not sticking, he's not like
there's no spine anywhere on that fucking show. And that's frustrating.

(53:12):
Because it's just like you have surrounded yourself. Each of
these people individually have surrounded themselves with yes men, sure
or yes and people, and it's like, this is what
happens when you fucking blow each other constantly week in
and week out and have zero criticisms or pushback or

(53:35):
even say you're wrong, Like you're actually wrong about this
fact and here's why, Like, if you don't have the
fucking balls to do that, none of these people have
my respect anymore. Like it's gone.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
I just wonder if it would be better if it
was more of a I listened to a little bit
of it, but not the entire thing from HBO as well,
there was a podcast companion podcast for The Penguin, the
show The Penguin, which is just a I guess it's
going to be a one and done, and that was
hosted by a film critic that I like, Amy Nicholson,

(54:08):
and sometimes Matt Reeves would come on, sometimes Colin Farrell
would come on, but for the most part it was
kind of more of a dissection of the show through
the lens of film criticism, and I like that better.
It's not like all about how it was made. It's
like a little bit. It's closer to what we do
than what as I understand it, the official show is.

(54:31):
So sometimes you just got to let a person make
the thing and don't listen to them anymore. Very rarely
does that work out, you know, like once you start,
you know, eventually everybody, I don't know, you either die
a hero, you know, that whole thing.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
So yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean, we can
just it is what it is, and we can't control that.
All we can control is whether we listen or not.
And I choose forever to never listen to any those
people ever again. So and the last comment, I'm going
to take this one because it's to me what you

(55:08):
wrote into our show. I yeah, I did again like
I did last week. And this was a difficult choice
because I understand that you should never you should never
feed the trolls. You should never play into people who

(55:28):
intentionally say things or do things to aggravate you, because
that's what they want. They want the satisfaction of I
got to this person and now they're mad and they're
talking on the show about at whatever. And I probably
said this is the last time last week, but truly
going forward on both wayfair and Strangers on the last cast.

(55:50):
Should there be season three coverage on all of the
email episodes going forward, whatever on Patreon exclusive stuff going forward.
This is literally the last time I'm going to say this,
and whatever happens beyond this point will just be an
immediate block and flat up. You do not exist. So

(56:13):
if you disrespect me and mask it under the guise
of constructive criticism which it is not, or attempt to
gaslight or guilt me into thinking that I owe you
or anybody else anything just because I create a weekly podcast,
you are dead fucking wrong. Someone crossed the line with

(56:34):
me this week, someone that we do not know personally.
So they do not know me personally. They do not
know you personally, Andrew. They have no idea about our
life behind closed doors. They have taken the fact that
they've listened to our podcast for X amount of years
as some sort of ownership or access to me and

(56:56):
you and our show, and that is absolutely not the case.
So I'm severing all communication. What's done is done, and
that is it.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Okay, that's all it needs to be said. Yep here
here drag him, queen.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
No, I don't want to drag nobody it's just it's metaphorical.
Then you know, yeah, there's no I don't want to
drag nobody. I don't want to be harsh to nobody.
I don't want to mistreat I've said several times on
this show. Now, if you disagree, keep it to yourself,
because there is constructive criticism. And going back to our comments,

(57:32):
We've gone back and forth with several people throughout the
seven weeks of this show who have disagreed with us,
but we've done it in a respectful manner to where
these wonderful people continue to leave comments on our show
or send us two thousand word emails that we will
cover shortly in a couple weeks, because there is a

(57:54):
dialogue to be had there. We can be different opinions
but still having a meaningful conversation. But if you fucking
attack me, if you expect me to bow down and
give you something because you listen to my show, goodbye,
stop listening.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
There you go, that's all you need.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
So Andrew, give us some show info about season two
episode seven, Convergence.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Okay, So, in terms of production, we have Nina Lopez
Corado as our director and this episode was once again
written by the trio of Neil Mason and Hallie. So
did I do good bye? By not saying yes, you did?

(58:42):
All right? Good The episode summary I was looking up
to see if Nina had done anything I'm familiar with,
and the answer is no. So the episode's summary, straight
from HBO is amid the battle between Seattle's warring factions,
Ellie's search draws her toward a devs dating confrontation.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Let's get into it, all right.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
We have our credit role and just as a note,
no pedro and no pedro spoor or pedro mushroom anything
like that. So fun guy, no fun guy, no fun
gal either. All right, we are at the theater and
this is with Jesse and Dina. Jesse is tending to

(59:27):
Dina's arrow in the thigh. It's a push through situation
instead of a pull out. The WLF radio goes off unattended.
Dina tells Jesse that he cannot let her die. And
the reason why we can't pull the arrow out is
because it'll sever an artery, just for FYI, and he

(59:49):
seems to know his way around an arrow wound, which
is good. They yellow one another before he comforts her,
and Jesse says he's got her. He sterilizes the knife
and her wound with alcohol from a flask. He offers
the flask to her, but she denies taking it, and
a look is shared between them, A pretty a knowing

(01:00:10):
one maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
And I feel like it's it's fair to say that
it was pretty obvious at this point that while I
commend Dina for refusing a drink, this must have been
the eye opening I'm actually going to be a mother
moment for her, along with a of course not so
subtle reveal for Jesse, but to think that she willingly

(01:00:34):
put herself in danger by being a part of this
mission and leaving it up to Ellie whether she continues
or goes back. But then once she actually experienced even
you know, a modicum of danger and then gets shot
through the fucking thigh, she refuses an alcoholic drink to
protect the baby, Like I again, just stay, what's the

(01:00:56):
lane you're choosing here, Dina, and fucking pick it and stay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
She's in the lane. Now, She's in it. Now season three,
Dina will be in a lane.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Jesse pushes the bolt through, Dina screams, and the scene
fades to black. It's actually pretty they don't show a
lot of detail for this, but it's one of those where,
like you know, it gives you the hebe jeeves. So
we see the bloody cross bolt lying on the ground.
The storm outside continues to rage on. Jesse is standing patrol,

(01:01:28):
pacing back and forth with his weapon. Ellie knock bangs
on the door just then, and Jesse raises his weapon
and checks to make sure it's really her with a
what's the name of your horse? It's shimmer. She's alone.
Open the fucking door. Ellie bursts in and immediately asks
about Dina. Jesse asks what happened to Ellie tells her

(01:01:49):
she's in the dressing room, then asks again where she was.
Ellie ignores him and takes off towards where Dina is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
So she just finishes up with Nora, and there's no
leftover rage or anger or trauma, just one thousand percent
concern for Dina and her well being. Got it anyway,
We're still in the theater, but now we're with Dina
and Ellie. So the room, the dressing room is lit
up by vanity slash glamour lights with some bulbs burnt out,

(01:02:18):
but most are lit so it's moody, it's dim. It's
a good place for sleeping. There are signatures on the walls,
posters from previous concerts and events that had been held there,
some big names like Van Van Morrison and Green Day.
Ellie opens the door to find Dina sleeping and sets
her pack down quietly. She takes off her coat. Dina
continues to sleep and breathe enough that we hear it,

(01:02:41):
and Ellie runs her hand through Dina's bangs here as
she sits beside her, then takes her hand and ultimately
wakes Dina up. Dina smiles initially and says hi, but
Ellie doesn't return the expression, and instead she asks Dina
to see her wound, and we do, and the blood
has soaked through part of the gauze all road, but
they say nothing, and Ellie eventually covers it back up

(01:03:03):
with Dina's nine hundred dollars jacket, and Ellie asks about
the Ellie asks about the baby, and Dina says, quote,
it's okay, and Ellie asks how she knows this, but
Dina just quote knows now, all right, There's a lot
I could say here, but in the interest of sparing
myself and everyone else, I think that this is just
another example of stupid writing, because either you explain to
the audience that Dina is not hemorrhaging and bleeding out,

(01:03:27):
which of course would lead one to fear they were miscarrying,
or maybe don't bring the pregnancy up at all. There
is no way for Dina, who was probably anywhere between
two to three months pregnant at most, to actually know
if her baby is okay at this moment and this
stage of her pregnancy. And how do I know this
because I was fucking pregnant and I understand exactly that

(01:03:51):
moment what you can feel, what you can sense, what
you can detect, and you don't feel a lot of
anything at that point, You're just pregnant.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
So yeah, the quick fix here is just asking Dina
if she's okay, or if you have to ask is
the baby okay? Then Dina could just give a much
more vague I think. So done, problem solved. You know,
they're great, I hope, So, yeah, I hope. So there's
no way of knowing really, So if she's not bleeding,

(01:04:25):
that's a good sign, right, Yeah, yeah, I get that.
There is a mirror thing that happens in this episode
with pregnant people. And we can discuss the merits of
whether or not that was well executed as well when
we get to it. But you know, I don't know
that this was a baffling series of words that they

(01:04:46):
exchanged here for me as well. I'm like, we didn't
need it, or it needed to be more or less
or just not at all, preferably the third thing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Yep. But we got to feel space somehow, babe.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
So we got to get close to an hour.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Yeah, and they were still ten minutes shy, and they
threw in scenes that have no anyway. So they continue
to hold hands and Dina touches Ellie's arm, but eventually
sees blood stains on the back of Ellie's shirt, so
Dina orders Ellie to sit as she grabs a dog
bowl full of water and a washcloth, and Dina, who
is very clearly in pain, moves slowly and then tells

(01:05:24):
Ellie to take her shirt off. Ellie tries, but can't
do this for herself, so Dina raises it up and
off of Ellie, and then she just stares at Ellie's
back and all the cuts, bruises and scratch scrape marks
there and where the fuck did any of this happen
to Ellie? Because we saw not one single fucking scene

(01:05:46):
where any of this trauma was inflicted on Ellie, And
for everyone at home unfamiliar with the game, Ellie's back
looked identically to what you see in this scene on
the show. Because she fought hard, she fell repeatedly, she
went through glass, she fell through floors. None of that

(01:06:07):
happened on the show, and yet they still fucking put
this moment in here for what reason. She literally climbed
down a fucking elevator shift ladder like gingerly, and then
got off at the next stop and walked tentatively. The
only thing that I can recall is that she ran

(01:06:27):
into a fucking wheelchair that Nora pushed into her way.
That was it, and that had nothing, ye had nothing
to do with her back. And then she beats Nora
two within inach of her life and then leaves. And
I guess you could be like, well, we didn't see
how she got out of there, now did weigh Then
fucking show us. If you're gonna show us this kind
of trauma, show us what caused it. Otherwise this is

(01:06:50):
just literally trauma for the sake of fucking trauma and angst.
Give me a goddamn break.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Yeah, I can't. There's no optimism stick. Look at this.
It just doesn't make a lot of sense. They haven't
been engaged in Okay. And one other thing, I swear
we won't stay too long on. I just want to
say that if you would play it up to this
point in the game, like you were saying, Ellie has

(01:07:16):
literally killed dozens of people. Yep, and in this show
two one, how many people have we killed? Killed? Actively three?

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
I don't even remember. Does she kill anybody at the
news station?

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
The guy upstairs? But Dina does that? Remember it's the
guy she's.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Oh, she stabs him in then throat, and then Diana
gets the other.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Yeah, Ellie gets one, Dina gets one, and then Nora
most recently, and everybody else they have gotten around or
escaped from.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
So again, just to reinforce your point, it makes sense
when you encounter these people in the game, sometimes they're
sneaking up on you. They'll hit you in the back,
they'll you know whatever, and so she yes, of course
you're covered with cuts and bruises and scrapes and shit. Yeah,
and this it's like now everything's been pretty pretty, pretty easy,

(01:08:14):
peasy comparatively.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
It just existed out of nowhere, just because, just because.
So Dina looks on sadly before washing Ellie's phantom inflicted
wounds and then asks what happened, and Ellie shares that
she found Nora, and Dina says good, before asking if
Nora told Ellie where Abby was. She did, but she
only used two words wheel and whale, and neither of

(01:08:42):
them know what that means. Nora was already infected and
it was setting in. The infection was setting in by
that point, so it might have meant absolutely nothing. And
Ellie stares on, there's no emotion, really, no nothing on
her face, before saying I made her talk and how
it wasn't all that hard to beat Nora. In fact,
it was easy, according to Ellie, She just kept hurting her.

(01:09:05):
This stops Dina and prompts her to ask if Ellie
killed Nora, meaning did you follow through? And no, she
did not. She left her there to die and ultimately
probably to change. She's just going to become a part
of the infection down there, and Dina thinks maybe she
got what she deserved. And Ellie, who just continues to
pussy foot around here says maybe she didn't, and this

(01:09:29):
is when tears come to Ellie's eyes and she turns
around to face Dina and she tells Dina what Joel did,
which I will not bother recording or writing down here,
because what's the fucking point. And Joel did what he
did to save Ellie from an impossible cure that would
have killed her. Ellie continues to give details to paint
Joel as this big, bad monster that everybody wants us

(01:09:52):
to believe that he was, and again he wasn't, and
Dina puts it all together very quickly as Dina does
and says, that's why they came, meaning that's why Abby
and the WLF crew came to Jackson and killed Joel.
Ellie didn't know who they were when they arrived at Jackson,
but she did know what Joel did. And Dina turns
away as Ellie apologizes, and there's a clear shift in

(01:10:13):
the tone that is happening between them in the here
and now, and Dina says they need to go home
as she settles back down on the lounger to rest,
but she looks to be in pain now and more
from just her leg and Ellie continues to cry but
says nothing as this scene concludes, and I'd just like
to call back to a previous episode, what the fuck
happened to revenge fuel Dina? All of a sudden, she

(01:10:36):
goes from I would have hunted these people forever for
what they did to my family to now we have
to go home because now she knows the truth, which, FYI,
a truth Ellie never shared with Dina up to this point,
and she turns away and instead of going through with
hunting these people for the rest of their lives because

(01:10:59):
that it was worth it to her, then now she's
just like, no, it's time to give up. So what
does this mean directly in this moment? Is Dina upset
at Ellie for not telling her and giving her the
full story before they started out on this mission and
on the road, or is she angry at Joel for
something she might now perceive as selfish and considering that

(01:11:24):
she's about to be a mother. I would like to
lean more towards the former rather than the latter, but
I'm curious to know where you stand.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
This feels like a want to have your cake and
eat a too situation. From a script perspective, drama for
the sake of drama. Again, it feels out of character
for Dina. Yep, it's stupid. You can say it's fucking stupid.
I God, all right. All I'll say about this is

(01:11:53):
Dina has learned a lot of secrets from Ellie that
are huge in a short amount of time. And so
my thought is she's more upset about the lack of
trust than the actual consequences of Joel's actions or situation. Like,
I don't think she's like, well, we shouldn't have done
this for Joel. I think she's more just upset at Ellie.

(01:12:16):
So I agree, if I had to if and this
is us giving the script and the writing like the
benefit of the doubt, right, So I hope. My hope
is that it's that thing and we can just move
past it pretty quickly, as opposed to like, we're going
to let this drama simmer for a little bit. So

(01:12:36):
there's leads for the love of God, so that's all
we can do. Yeah, all right. Seattle Day three, we
get a shot of the marquee outside the theater and
it appears to say, you know, some of the letters
have fallen off but it does say sick Abby, sick abby.

(01:12:57):
Some of the letters have fallen off and sik a
b I. So take from that what you will.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
I noticed it. I jotted it down.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
Yeah, I definitely. You know, whenever there are letters or words,
it's worth just a glance, and especially if it happens
to just spell phonetically. One of the main characters who
knows Ellie and Jesse are packing their backpacks and the
silence is deafening here. Ellie turns the walkie talkie on
and flips through the channels and here's nothing. She checks

(01:13:26):
her Ammo inventory and notes that she's low, asking Jesse
if he has any to spare. He tosses her a
box of bullets, but stays quiet. Dina limps out from
the dressing room, walking directly to Ellie as best she can,
telling Ellie to give her her wrist, the one with
the tattoo on it. She proceeds to put a bracelet

(01:13:47):
on Ellie and says it's for good luck. Ellie, thinking
this is time for a quip, says I'm not sure
it's been working for you. Dina says, I'm alive, and
it shuts down this this little conversation here. I thought
that was okay. I thought that was okay. It's fine,
full disclosure. It wasn't good or bad. It was just like, oh,

(01:14:09):
that's good, okay. Jesse offers to do this alone so
Ellie can stay back with Dina. Dina refuses that, and Ellie,
after looking at Dina, looks at Jesse, says they'll be
safer together, which is always a good idea. I think
generally the rendezvous point isn't far from the theater, assuming
Tommy is still there and they should return by sundown.

(01:14:32):
Dina is good to barricade the door, and it's time
for them to go. Get going. The look Dina gives
Ellie here is not necessarily a kind one. It's angry,
maybe a little accusatory.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
So and again it's right on the heels of giving
her this bracelet, like the whiplash of the show. I understand.
It's like, I still love you and I want you
to be safe, but I also am pissed at you,
and now I'm questioning my trust. And it just happens
so fucking fast, from scene to scene to scene. It's

(01:15:05):
too much.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
Yeah, I don't also know why I was really thinking
about this, and I don't know if there's a good
reason why Jesse is treating these two like a couple
of assholes.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
We'll talk about Jesse.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Don't worry, Okay, I just yeah, during this scene specifically,
I'm like, why is he being such an asshole? But
if we're going to get to it, we'll get to it.
So's yeah, we will.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Yeah, don't worry. And speaking of Jesse, we're going to
be outside and the alloyy set designed here, I will say,
is fantastic. There's a broken down jeep with a front
license plate that spells B eight S three N and
my mind said Bacon. So I wanted to note it down.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
Baits baitsin Baits scene, Baits scene. Maybe it's like someone's
a shortened version of someone's name, you know, there's always
something someone from the.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
Cast maybe, or someone from the cast really likes Bacon
for that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
So Ellie and Jesse walk along in silence. The meetup
point is apparently at a bookstore, which you're speaking my
language anyway. Ellie asks Jesse if he's ever going to
tell her how he found the theater, to which he
counters with, You're ever going to tell me what happened
last night, but Tommy and Jesse followed the most likely

(01:16:26):
path that Ellie and Dina went, and they found Shimmer,
who's doing all right, no thanks to Elli and Dina.
And then they saw the WL left sign figured they
went there and then began a search in a two
mile radius, which is how he found the theater. And
Ellie says, you make it sound easy, but it wasn't
and it took two days and a lot of close calls,

(01:16:47):
and she thanks Jesse here because she knows that he's angry.
And this is the moment where Jesse spins around and
confronts Ellie about what happened the night before whilst working
on Dina, because while Ellie was beating Nora to death,
Jesse was tending to Dina, as we all know, with
the crossbowl, that she can't die. He shares these details

(01:17:08):
with Ellie. He said, not I don't want to die,
I can't die. And then she refused alcohol, which is
very unlike Dina and his experiences with her, and Ellie
tries to deny here, but Jesse sees the way that
they look at one another and how Dina probably tells
Ellie things that she doesn't tell him, like, for example,

(01:17:30):
that she's pregnant, and Ellie just mumbles a fuck and
it's all the reply that she can manage. But Jesse,
we learn, was guessing that Dina was pregnant and Ellie's
non answer mumble is all he needed to hear and
have it confirmed. His shoulders drop as he hears and
absorbs this news, and then Ellie asks him to act

(01:17:51):
surprised when Dina tells him. But Ellie apparently thinks that
nothing has to change between us. She says, is us
the trio? Or is it Ellie and Dina? Is it
Ellie and Jesse? Is it Jesse and Dina? I don't know,
but Jesse hits her with a everything changing doesn't have
to change, And once again, Ellie, you fucking idiot. Like

(01:18:16):
the way and this this goes right into what you
were just talking about. The way that Jesse treats Ellie
and by proxy Dina in this entire sequence is so
far from removed from how they were damn near best
friends in the game. And this nattish, buzzing insect annoyance
vibe that Ellie gives off has Jesse essentially swatting her

(01:18:41):
away through either vibes or verbal tone or this, that
or the other since he arrived to the theater. And
I think that this is the perfect example or the
perfect time to talk about why. The reason that you
were hinting towards, like, why is Jesse behaving the way
that he is is because Ellie's written the way that

(01:19:03):
Ellie is written. They are not best friends. They are
barely fucking friends on this show, and he sees her
as a liability and a responsibility who is reckless and
uncaring and inconsiderate. And that's why he is behaving the
way that he is, because that's how she's been written.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
Yeah, I would just briefly counter by saying that in
the in the source material, she is also those things.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
Not to the she's not stupid and she's not annoying.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Yeah, well that's what That's what I'm saying. Like she
will take she will go rogue right and do things
her way. Yes, So I get it. I get on
one hand, like, yeah, they one reason he might be
upset is because, yeah, like we had to travel for
fucking days from Jackson to find you two and almost

(01:19:59):
died and almost and seemingly rescue you from a terrible
situation and face our own tribulations along the way. Yeah,
but there was no real sense of relief or like
I'm glad we found you guys okay when they were
finally reunited either, no.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Friends.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
Yeah, and that's the kind of that's what I'm kind
of like, Man, I don't know. The dynamics are just
a little off.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Everything is off because Ellie was written so poorly, and
they cannot course correct from these mistakes because they made
Jesse out to be Captain Wyoming and the future mayor
and he is very stringent and adheres to the fucking rules,
and Ellie is the complete antithesis of that. She's reckless,

(01:20:50):
she's childish, she's immature, she's everything that Jesse disrespects. And
you're not going to fucking be friends with someone like that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
This is a failure one hundred percent on the out
of character writing that has happened since episode one.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
Yeah, you don't really think about it as the It
truly is the butterfly effect, right, where if you change
one thing, then it creates a cascading effect across the
so many other things have to change to accommodate the
one thing. So I wonder if it will be possible
at some point, not now, to trace it back to,
like what was the one change that really kicked off

(01:21:32):
this domino effect.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
I don't know, because going back to the episode one,
when she's fighting that big dude in the barn and
Jesse comes in to get her, he still has that
similar tone of you're not following the fucking rules and
it's annoying me because the rules exist for a fucking reason.
And then every single episode from that point on she

(01:21:58):
has never listened to to a single fucking rule to anyone,
not Kat leading the group in episode two, leaving Jackson
when she doesn't get her votes at the end of
episode three, and I mean, on and on it goes.
It's just it just evolved so early because she was
written poorly from the start.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
The one thing to call back to is in the
previous episode too, the flashback, she does mention that Jesse
is the one who'd be willing to train her. So
I don't know what that suggests, and we probably never will.
That they were at some point closer close ish who
knows her, So there's that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:39):
Yeah, and something happened in between, maybe the way that
Ellie was behaving because that was for Ellie's sixteenth birthday.
When they're walking towards the dinosaur in the museum, that
that conversation happens between Joel and Ellie and she talks, oh, well,
you know, Jesse said he'd be willing to train me
and blah blah blah if you just give him the
go ahead. Because Joel doesn't do that, Ellie starts to

(01:23:02):
show those signs of like reckless behavior, and Jesse picks
up on that. Sure, And that's around the time when
he's like, no, you're not all right, Like he's trying
to fucking protect you. This town has survived and continues
to thrive and remain safe because we have fucking rules
and you are constantly trying to break them.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
I don't fuck with that. Yeah, totally valid reading of
that situation.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
So all right, so Jesse acknowledges here that he will
be a father, so he cannot die and basically, you know,
let's skip the apology so they can get to Tommy
and get him and get his kid the fuck out
of Seattle. And I just I want to put this
out there that Jesse is a good man in an
impossible situation despite the dynamics of his in Ellie's relationship.

(01:23:51):
He was, in my opinion, the last strong character on
this show in insofar as the ones that directly affect
Ellie's journey. Sure, because I mean, we all love Gail,
we loved Joey Pants, Tommy and Gabriel Luna's portrayal of
him is wonderful, but he was so underused this season too.

(01:24:12):
So Jesse really was like the last one. And it's
unfortunate what happens to him by the end of this episode.
But anyway, Yes, he turns back around and they walk onward,
and that's that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
Yeah, something to think about. Would have been interesting to
see their journey, Tommy and Jesse's journey inside. I would
just love that hearing about it, to actually see it,
you know, the whole showed on tel thing. I guess
we'll never know. We are back with Ellie and Jesse.
Here they continued walking down another overgrown street. Take note

(01:24:45):
of the collapsed crane spanning the distance of two buildings
on the skyline. If you're just a TV show watcher
and you might have thought, why do they keep showing
that building with the cranes? Yeah, just put a pin
in it and keep that pin up on the wall
for about two years. Yeah, there's another feel her love
drawling here, but this time the face of her depicted

(01:25:09):
is different, which leads Ellie to ask if there is
more than one of her kind of interesting. Jesse doesn't
know either, but he does know they need to speed
it up. The thunderstorm resumes and Jesse and Elli duck
into a parking garage to get out of the rain.
Apparently there are only two more blocks to go, but
they want to try to wade out the weather. That

(01:25:30):
was the plan, but gunfire begins to boom just beyond
the boundaries of the garage, so the two of them
run and hide behind a couple of dumpsters as a
handful of WLF chase a young Scar into the parking structure.
So Jesse and Ellie just watch this seae unfold silently.
The Scar falls to his knees and begins to pray

(01:25:50):
as the WLF ask him how he got past the line.
One of the WLF soldiers outside Isaac's torture kitchen comes
back into play here, so a little bit of you know,
call and response. He is intimidating the young Serahphite and
then hitting him violently in the forehead with the butt
of his weapon. Ellie tries to go out and help,

(01:26:10):
but is pulled back by Jesse. The nearly naked Scar
is dragged out by his arms into the rain, and
there's a moment before Ellie shoves Jesse off and then
tries to go and save him. Jesse talks reason into her.
There were six of them and two of us, and
he's making a lot of sense, actually, so Ellie protests

(01:26:32):
that he was a fucking kid, but Jesse tells her
what this is all about. You know, this is not
their war. The WLF are shooting and killing Scars, and
Scars are gutting and killing the WLF. Right, We're in
a war zone right now. Yeah. Jesse walks back out
into the pouring rain, and a simple let's go gets
them back on task.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
So again, this is just weird because Ellie has done
pretty much nothing throughout this entire season, minus, of course,
swinging the pipe onto Nora's legs and the one stabby
stab at the news station. But now she wants to
play pretend vicious and come out to rescue a Scar,

(01:27:14):
and it just felt for me too little, too late. Vibes.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
Yeah, I don't have anything to add. I'm just yeah,
just it's sad that this is out of character for
her now.

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
It is, Yeah, like this level of viciousness and protest
and violence or not even violence actually to save someone
or to hurt others in the effort of saving some
I don't know, but like it's been missing all seasons,
So now you're gonna do it over a random fucking
seraphite in a garage, Like stay on task or you

(01:27:48):
should have been doing this the entire time. There's just
and I and I'm pretty sure the scene that we're
going to talk about later where she goes to the
island and is almost hung by the scars is a
direct mirror of her wanting to save them but then
seeing what kind of people they truly are, even though
I think that is the most useless fucking scene in

(01:28:09):
an entire in any TV series I've ever fucking watched.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
We're going to get to that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
It was it was literally like, well, we have no
more ideas, let's just throw this in there, but we'll
get to it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:21):
You go.

Speaker 1 (01:28:21):
For now, we're at the Costco warehouse with the WLF.

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
Some hot dogs.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
I am such a Costco bitch, like, let's go. There's
lots of military barricades, lookouts and patrols in this Costco
parking lot, and I'd like the record to reflect that.
Over on Wayfair and Strangers, we have a bit and
a running list of places which we could use as
a great defensive hold. And once upon a time, I'm

(01:28:49):
pretty sure, I said, Costco's pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
I think I have the note right here on I'm pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
Sure that's on the list. And if I didn't, I know.
I said it to you privately after one of my
Costco trips because I was like, this is the this
is it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
I actually do have the It's just a post it
note on my desk right now. It's just a blue
post it note and the title of it is list
of places, and it just has a list of places
underneath of it with no context. But I know what
it's for, and that's all that matters. We have a prison,
a church, and like an old church like you know

(01:29:23):
when they back when they used to make them, you know,
like a cathedral stone, yeah, yeah, like lots of stone,
very small windows, that sort of thing. High school, you
specifically decided on an aircraft carrier. Yeah, yes, a lighthouse
and then and then we decided both not a coffee shop.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
So that's what I have on this list of places.
So I'm pretty sure I said Costco. I could be wrong.
Who have listened to our Wayfair and Strangers many times,
and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, But yeah, I thought it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:55):
We've also passed by and you see it from the
outside and you're like, oh, very defensible because there'sasically only
one entrance that is gated, and so yeah, you could
you could fortify a Costco and have a lot of supplies.

Speaker 1 (01:30:08):
Yeah, those supplies, That's what I'm going for.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
We got supplus, all the cheese curls you can eat.

Speaker 1 (01:30:16):
I just want the chicken, the rotisserie chickens. Let's walking,
and the croissant, the coss Let's go anyway, So we
see a lease park again and she exits a hum
V and goes into a tent to find Isaac. And
the report is that the storm is a convergence zone,
which means it will get bigger, and orders have been
relayed and everything is set. All the officers are on board,

(01:30:39):
but the rank and file quote are scared, and park
continues here about timing and organizing, but Isaac cuts her off,
asking about Abby. They haven't had word on Abby since yesterday,
and now no word on either Owen or Mel, who
appear to be missing as well, and Abby's entire crew
has gone missing at the wrong time on tonight of
all nights, and Isaac is displeased, but Park says they

(01:31:04):
still have Manny, but Isaac sees him, Mel and Owen
as nothing special. They have plenty of Mels, Owens and
Manny's to go around, but only one Abby, and Park
hits him with a Okay, what the fuck. She's a
good soldier, great even, but there's an entire army out here,
and he's acting like Abby is the most important. But

(01:31:24):
she stops herself and then takes a very sharp left
turn to are you in love with her? Or something?
And this makes Isaac laugh a little bit, but Park
doubles down with how he wouldn't be the first old
man to but no, he stops her and says that
he is not in love with Abby, and then gestures
for her to sit down, and they each take a
seat across from one another, and he goes into how

(01:31:45):
when the sun comes up tomorrow there's a high chance
that each of them will be dead. So what happens
to the entire army? Just outside the door? The sheep
despite being called wolves. He says, the sheep need a
leader to secure their future. I'm paraphrasing, and this leader
was supposed to be Abby, but Park stands and claims, well,

(01:32:07):
she's fucked off, so maybe it wasn't. And did you
detect a small amount of jealousy in this moment from
Elise Park? At the same time, it would make sense
why Abby was able to take her crew on an
expedition to find Joel without any apparent pushback from the leader,
meaning Isaac. But to counter that counter, wouldn't the future

(01:32:33):
head of the WLF military part of the organization, who
is a twenty five year old just okay, shore Jan
Wouldn't she need to stay close to home to continue
to learn and lead like Shadow lead with Isaac? Nothing

(01:32:53):
in this show makes sense if he gives her leeway
to take herself and four other people with her on
an X edition, how fucking long is it going to
take for you to get from there to Wyoming and
back again because there was no military vehicles with them,
So he's like, oh, she's going to be the future leader.
But how yes, you have permission to go in this

(01:33:14):
revenge quest. You're good. You'll be back in like a
couple of weeks, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
Okay, Like what so I will reserve judgment. Who knows
if you're even going to watch season three? All reserve
judgment on this particular aspect until season three tells us
about that. There. She could have lied. She could have
been like, yeah, we're going to we heard about a

(01:33:39):
supply cash over here and just went under false pretenses.
You know what I'm saying, Like that would be a
thing that you could send a crew to get, but
you know, we don't know any of that. All I'm
looking at here is man Jeffrey Wright is so good
as Isaac.

Speaker 1 (01:33:56):
Yes he is.

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
He's just so effortless. He's like one of Again, they
have stacked this cast the supporting characters, I should say,
with just the best actors working, best character actors working. Yep,
and they are even at least park. I'm like, I
could watch a show with just these two talk all day,

(01:34:20):
you know. So this scene was very effective for me
based on the prowess of these two people. Now how
it relates to the larger story not so much. But man,
these two are like really really solid.

Speaker 3 (01:34:37):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
So after that we cut back to the bookstore. Ellie
and Jesse break into this looks like a Barnes and Noble.
I guess something about that size, and Jesse dutifully clears
with a quick glance around. There's no one there except
for the shit that Jesse left behind. Jesse playcates that
everything will be fine and that Tommy will make it back.

(01:35:00):
But what if Tommy is in trouble? Ellie asks. Jesse
makes a compelling point by saying, what if we're all
in trouble? That puts a bow on that. And then
here they are, Jesse and Ellie in bed fucking weather.
Ellie basically rolls her eyes at that as Jesse walks
past her to his sleeping bag and supplies and stash

(01:35:21):
and whatnot. Next, the biggest handholding lesson to date is
written literally on the wall. Everything's got a moral if
only you can find it. So we want to thank
Walt Disney and the Disney Company yep for the compelling
words of wisdom yep. This is found that actually in

(01:35:44):
the children slash Baby book section, which Ellie has made
her way over to along with some pretty adorable mushroom Flora.
Oh so that's what the story is about, you say.
Ellie walks to the read to baby section and grabs
a little golden book. The monster at the end of
this book, and it's Grover. It's Grover from Sesame Street,

(01:36:06):
So real deal, real deal. She opens it and there's
a pleasant smile on her face. As she walks away, Jesse,
who was standing kind of just right next to her, says,
you picked a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:36:19):
So she didn't hear Jesse like, or feel or just
catch him in peripheral just right beside her.

Speaker 2 (01:36:26):
She's caught up in the moment. She's caught up in
the moment of Grover.

Speaker 1 (01:36:28):
Oh my god, Grover.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
Jesse says he should have thought of that, meaning started
looking for baby books zo point two three five seconds
after finding out he's going to be a dad, of course,
so he's you know, Jesse, forgiven, Okay, forgiven. Ellie tries
to approach the topic of Ellie and Dina with Jesse.

(01:36:53):
Jesse stops her with a dose of reality. They have
a lot of problems. A wounded pregnant girl. Maybe Tommy
is dead. Maybe they'll be dead soon too, okay, but
he wants to get this one problem off the table,
meaning settle the issue of this little love triangle they're experiencing.
Jesse does love Dina, he admits, but not the way

(01:37:15):
Ellie does. After that, he launches into a story about
a girl who had stopped by Jackson for a few
weeks on a trade route. I think they said they
were headed to Mexico, right. She was selling paintings and
things like that. Ellie asks if the paintings were good,
and Jesse replies, no, I bought four of them, so pretty. Again,

(01:37:38):
that's well placed in this character. This tiny character moment
feels good. They smile and laugh a bit here, talking
about the feeling of falling for someone and having them
fall right back for you. Ellie wants more of the
story and Jesse continues, it was the best two weeks
of his life. But she couldn't stay because she wouldn't
abandon her family like that, and she asked Jay to

(01:38:00):
go with them instead, And Jesse did want to, but
he didn't because of what the people of Jackson did
for him. Because everyone is counting on him to be
the next to Maria but really, because he was taught
to put other people first. Ellie nods here and she
gets the gist. He is Saint Jesse of Wyoming and

(01:38:21):
everyone else is a fucking asshole. But Jesse counters with
a if he had gone to Mexico, who would have
saved her in Dina in Seattle. And at that exact moment,
the walkie talkie fires up. They're talking about an unidentified
sniper and Jesse thinks it's got to be Tommy. The
WLF are yelling though, saying no radios, meaning they've understood

(01:38:45):
they've been compromised. Finally, Yeah, Jesse checks the map and
they find a point to head to, so they packed
their shit and they.

Speaker 1 (01:38:54):
Bounce and we already talked to I mean, these two
people are just not friends, and it's another example of misunderstanding.

Speaker 2 (01:39:01):
Mason miss Understasen.

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
Misunderstays in that Ellie is now nineteen years old and
she is capable of friendships, but because she acts like
a child, this is something that Ellie might have known
about Jesse's life had they been actual friends. But they're not.

Speaker 2 (01:39:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Fair point. It's she knew enough
about the caravan that they come through, but not about
the details or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:29):
So yeah, yeah, So we are still with Ellie and Jesse.
They've made it to a higher vantage point and then
proceed to walk down a sloped, collapsed floor, partially collapsed
floor in a building that you'd never catch me dead in.
So shots come from a direction off in the right
quadrant of the scene where Tommy is likely, where Tommy

(01:39:53):
likely is, and can be heard in abundance. There is
some sort of firefight happening. Ellie ignores Jesse, though, and
focuses on the ferris wheel and the aquarium with the
giant whale painted on the side of the building.

Speaker 3 (01:40:05):
Wait a minute, oh, and she murmurs this and tells Jesse.

Speaker 1 (01:40:11):
Jesse and tells Jesse that Abby is in the fucking aquarium,
and Ellie doubles back and talks about finding a boat.
Jesse tries to stop Ellie here and to redirect her
to go towards the gunfire because that is where Tommy
likely is, and Ellie hesitates and throws it you don't
know that's him, and Jesse protests and they go back
and forth, but Ellie is convinced Tommy has the WLF

(01:40:34):
pinned down and he will be fine, but backup was called.
Jesse says, the WLF called for backup and Tommy needs help,
but Ellie's convinced that Tommy will pin them down too.
And I understand Ellie wanting to get to Abby considering
she could be so close, But Ellie not giving two

(01:40:55):
shits about Tommy doesn't sit right with me, because, again,
this is the flip flop nature of Ellie, who was
supposed to be a bad ass and driven by revenge.
We should expect her to always choose the mission over
Tommy over literally anybody else in her quest to avenge Joel,

(01:41:20):
which she does here, but the show has not shown
us enough of that. So her choosing to go and
still try to find Abby instead of going after Tommy,
which is what this character should have done based on
the information we've been provided throughout the season, is another
one of those like, you know, throw it at the
wall and whatever sticks, that's what we'll go with. Heads

(01:41:42):
or tails. Is Ellie going to be a bad ass
in this scene or she gonna be a fucking bitch?

Speaker 2 (01:41:46):
Like if this episode took place directly after Episode two,
then this decision makes total sense. But because we had
these intervening episodisodes where there was a lot, like you said,
just a lot of this like la la la la la,
la la la la Again. Now she's just coming off

(01:42:10):
as very callous, yeah, towards somebody who is there specifically
to help her.

Speaker 1 (01:42:17):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:42:18):
It's they're picking and choosing based off of poor information
that has been displayed all season, and it just sucks.
It's hollow, that's all it is. It's just hollow. And
Ellie points out into the distance with a he would
want me to do this, and that if only three
more people had voted yes with Jesse, he would already

(01:42:39):
be going with Ellie, hence there'd be no contention. But
Jesse reveals here that he voted no on Ellie's council
mission request, which Andrew did call. We talked about that earlier,
and why did he vote no? Because everything Ellie does,
Ellie does for herself, and to be perfectly honest, this

(01:43:00):
is how the character was written all season. This is
how the character has been portrayed all season. So I'm
not even mad for Jesse calling her out on this
because it's true, and she can get as mad as
she wants. But we have not been proven a single
time in season two that she isn't a selfish, insolent
child walking around in a nearly twenty year old body.

(01:43:20):
She has dismissed lessons from Joel, she has countered and
refused rules, rule and refused rules at every single turn.
She literally does not give a fuck for anyone else
in Jackson, and that included Joel at one point.

Speaker 2 (01:43:37):
And I just want to call out also that you
calling out that you wrote a character a certain way
isn't actually a justification for writing a character a certain way,
you know, yep, So that's just you know, it's weird
to be so self aware, Yeah, that you you acknowledged

(01:44:02):
the way that she was written and call it out
from another character, Yeah, and still proceeded to do it
rather than be like, huh, should I have should I
have done a second pass? Just worth noting?

Speaker 1 (01:44:18):
Yeah, that is a lot of self awareness. So maybe
that was Neil's little zinger in there for being like,
fuck you Mason, who knows.

Speaker 2 (01:44:24):
It could be? Yeah, maybe we have some butting heads, right.

Speaker 1 (01:44:28):
That would the way that that would bring me joy,
so much joy. Anyways, Ellie gets angry here as Jesse
tries to tell her that what Ellie asked for in
gathering a party to quote get justice for Joel wasn't
in the best interests of the community because Captain Wyoming
and Ellie lets it rip here with a fuck the community.

(01:44:51):
All Jesse does is talk about the community, and she
calls him a hypocrite here because how he just let
a kid fucking die, because why what was your justification?
He wasn't part of the community. And then Ellie continues
and says that her community was beaten to death in
front of her and she was forced to watch that
Jesse is ultimately no better than Ellie and if he

(01:45:14):
was in her shoes, he'd be doing the same fucking thing.
And at this moment, another gunshot fires off in the distance,
and Jesse just nods and says he hopes that she
makes it, and then he leaves, and Ellie watches him
go from the edge of the nearly collapsed building that
you would never catch me dead in before turning around
to face the direction of the aquarium. And I do

(01:45:34):
like that Saint Jesse was called on his bullshit here. However,
I am also glad to hear Ellie talking about Joel
the way that she did. But like I just mentioned earlier,
with the I'm going to go save the seraphite, it
all feels like it's make believe because this is the
level that we should have been working with all along,

(01:45:56):
and it's coming too little, too late.

Speaker 2 (01:45:59):
Yeah, just to shout out, the acting between these two
in this scene was really good, really intense love. I
love the emotion in this moment from them, And like
you said, I know that it would have been very
uncomfortable to sit in.

Speaker 1 (01:46:16):
That's the whole point I know.

Speaker 2 (01:46:18):
And that's what and that's what I'm thinking is they
just didn't want to put the audience through that. But
if you have this character who's always operating at this
eleven out of ten just simmer like seething and simmering,
yes it's uncomfortable to watch, but it is called for.

Speaker 1 (01:46:37):
Also, yeah, yeah we did get it here. Yeah. Somebody
said that this is the Disney version of the Last
of Us and I completely agree, truly, I completely agree.

Speaker 2 (01:46:51):
Yeah, that's good, that's good. All right, I'm going to
cover a couple different things that happen here, and just
for the sake of attempted brevity, here we go. So
Dina is up on the second level of the theater,
sits and watches the barricaded front doors, and she's armed

(01:47:12):
and just kind of contemplative thinking about things. Next we
see Isaac cleaning his face after shaving, so we're firmly
in a montage here. Yeah, the music here is awesome.
For the record, we get these beats and it's very concussive.
There's a lot of energy, like some shit is about

(01:47:35):
to happen. It's really really good. The ferris wheel has
seen better days. And now we're back with Ellie as
she tries to find a boat to take her to it,
so instead of crossing the land, it's actually just a
straight shot over the water. Lightning flashes and lights up
the wheel, and we know that this is what she
will use as her kind of north star to guide

(01:47:57):
her through this pretty nasty storm. That is that was
talked about earlier with Isaac. Voices are heard near the dock,
and Ellie ducks by a car to get out of sight.
She watches these people head towards the water. They're carrying gear,
and a light shines from a boat on the water,
and then another and then another. It should be noted

(01:48:19):
that Ellie's plan here was to snipe these two gentlemen
on the dock with a handgun. So I don't know how.
I don't know how effective that would have been. I'm
pretty sure seth handed or a rifle.

Speaker 1 (01:48:31):
If I don't, where's that been all season?

Speaker 2 (01:48:34):
So I haven't seen that rifle once. Actually, it is weird.
Where is it?

Speaker 1 (01:48:40):
A fun fact too? The Blu Ray release removed Ellie
holding the rifle on the artwork, which has been the
season cover for all of season two, But for some
reason on the Blu Ray they got rid of the rifle.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
They left the rifle with Shimmer. Of course, probably Shimmer
needed a gun too, you see. Well, yeah, Shimmer got
to look out for Shimmer. So just that's neither here
nor there. That's weird movie and television stuff. Some people
can snipe with handguns, I guess. So, like we said,
half a dozen more lights come on of these boats

(01:49:15):
in the darkness, and Isaac is on board one of them,
and the people that were on the dock are now joining.
I thought that was a very effective and very cool sequence,
just at a technical level. I love that we sold
one and then lots more. It was great props where
they're due. I'm not a complete I'm not you know,
I'm not a monster. They load up, Isaac has a

(01:49:37):
look at the island just across the water, and then
they leave. Each light turns off as they go, which
again really great visual. Yeah, Ellie resumes her endeavors. She
gets down into the boat, fires it up, and then
sets off. Now, this is just a this is just
like a not a special boat. It's like an offboard
motor boat, pretty small.

Speaker 1 (01:49:58):
A hop, skip and a jump away from a dinghy.

Speaker 2 (01:50:01):
Right water. Very I would describe it as moderately to
very choppy.

Speaker 1 (01:50:07):
It's terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:50:08):
You know, you look at this and you could tell
that this is a bad idea. That's all. That's all
we'll say. She keeps the aquarium though in view with
the lightning, and she is speeding past Seattle. The perspective
here is really cool. You see the beach and the
land behind her, and she's making good time. However, a

(01:50:29):
giant wave appears right ahead of her and suddenly it
knocks her and the boat off course. Ellie goes under
the water. The boat flips, but it flips back, it
doesn't capsize. It's kind of a miracle.

Speaker 1 (01:50:43):
There's that sure is sure is quite the miracle, lucky
and now we Unfortunately, Ellie finds herself on Scar Island
and she reaches the shoreline after the boat made it
perfectly safe, literally perfectly safe, like someone pulled it in.
Only she's not by the aquarium, but rather on the
island than Isaac and the WLF are heading out to invade.

(01:51:07):
She's tired, beyond fatigued from swimming in a ruthless storm,
but looks up to find a child watching her, a
child Sarah fight watching her, and Ellie crawls trying to
get back to the boat, but on her way she
can't manage to get up, and instead she's caught by
two scars and they drag her into the forest, and

(01:51:29):
Ellie glimpses a noose up ahead of her and begins
to panic and fight back because remember, she has seen
what happens and what is done to people, specifically what
has done to the WLF from the scars. Of course,
her panic does nothing, though, and a woman with a
scythe appears, and the child who narked on Ellie's standing

(01:51:49):
beside her, and Ellie screams that she's not a wolf,
and she literally screams at this young child to relay
the message to the lady right beside her or right
beside him, that she's not a wolf. But the child
signs on his or her gut, you know, cut him open,
essentially cut her open, ye, And it's not great. And

(01:52:13):
they wrap the noose around Ellie's neck and pull the slack,
thus beginning to hang Ellie, and she chokes and gasps
for air, and all of us have a brief moment.
Are they really going to fucking kill Ellie? Maybe? Maybe? Maybe?

Speaker 2 (01:52:25):
But no.

Speaker 1 (01:52:26):
A loud horn in the distance signals to everyone on
site that there is something major going wrong and the
village needs all hands on deck. The woman orders the
man to leave Ellie, and he does, and after this
everyone runs off. Ellie catches her breath, spots Jowel's revolver
out ahead on the ground, and then heads back out

(01:52:47):
to the boat and she fires up the engine and
resumes her path to Abby and the aquarium. But there
are massive explosions that take place behind her, and Ellie
turns to see the island with enormous fireballs above it.
So the siege has begun. I'm going to keep this
quick because I don't want to. What was the actual

(01:53:09):
fucking point of Ellie going to this island? What did
this add to the story? How did this serve the story?
Why was this needed? It felt like, oh, hey, fellas,
we are three to four minutes shy of hitting our
time deadline. What could we possibly put in here as
filler to make this work?

Speaker 2 (01:53:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:53:33):
She knew, she knew how ruthless they were, right, And
I know, hold on, I know, I said earlier Ellie
wanted to save the scars and maybe they had this
scene in there so she could see how bad they were,
because that was my brain forgetting that. She already knows
how bad they are because her Ellie or her Dina
and Jesse saw them gut someone like. So that was

(01:53:54):
just a momentary, you know, brain fart. I'm sorry, but
there was no point for this fucking scene. She knew
how bad they were. Nothing happened to her waste.

Speaker 2 (01:54:03):
Yeah, and the time doesn't necessarily line up either. I
don't want to be a stickler for stuff, but I've
already pointed out that I really like when in episode two,
for instance, the geography of things right, I like when
things are very clearly defined in terms of distance and

(01:54:26):
the stakes involved there, right, And so at night we
see her at this dock, and then the lightning lights
up the aquarium, and then we see Isaac look off
to this island. And my thought is, there's no world
in which her boat capsizes, she falls off of it
and wakes up on the beach of that island. She

(01:54:49):
would have drowned if she was unconscious that whole time.
She's dead.

Speaker 1 (01:54:54):
I took it to mean that she like she couldn't
stand up at the shoreline and was ultimately caught because
she had swam the whole way I mean, which would
be an incredibly physically taxing feat.

Speaker 2 (01:55:08):
There's anybody, Yeah, there's so that also doesn't make my
I don't I don't love that either. The fix, the
fix for this, here's what they're setting. I understand, like
I'm looking at it. What you said is perfectly, we
don't need to see. Ellie does not need to see
that these people are ruthless. That's been established, right, that

(01:55:32):
they're dangerous also because yes, they killed the wolf, but
then when Dina and Jesse and herbre discovered, they just
began firing at them, right, So they just attack everybody
apparently on site. Yep, if the if the goal was
to set up these giant fireballs in the sky, then

(01:55:54):
that could have come. As she exits the aquarium, after
what just what is about to happen or.

Speaker 1 (01:56:00):
Just she continues on her boat towards the aquarium, pulls
herself up onto the dock. Boom explosions, ying.

Speaker 2 (01:56:08):
Yeah, like, oh shit, that's where the people that left
the dock. That's them doing their thing right, And yeah,
I don't there are nine other ways to condense this
without this moment.

Speaker 1 (01:56:21):
Yeah, it's hard to like that's actually yeah, there's nothing
too like about it. It was a waste of time.

Speaker 2 (01:56:28):
That's the that's where we land on it. So we
are in the aquarium now. Ellie arrives, hoisting herself up
and onto the dock via a ladder. She looks around,
noting that there are no lights or movement anywhere, it seems.
She uses her flashlight and finds a path into the building.
This is very video game ass shit, And we approve

(01:56:51):
I watched this. I was like, yes, yep, that's almost
shot for shot. How we get in? So we see
a view from in there is a huge gaping hole
in one window, and it's pouring down into what appears
to be a kitchen area that also doubled as a
WLF resting ground. They're also kind of cots and stuff
in here. Ellie, smartly never seen this before, actually dries

(01:57:17):
her bullets before reloading and takes her jacket off. I
was like, wow, yep, that's great. Yeah, who knew. I'm
not talking about just in this show. I'm just talking
about it in general, Like a lot of people are
firing guns that have been submerged in water and in
the rain and stuff like that. Maybe the first time
I've ever seen someone take time to other than other

(01:57:39):
than in No country for old men and mud.

Speaker 1 (01:57:42):
Remember the revolver fell into the bud.

Speaker 2 (01:57:44):
That's right, that's right. So but yeah, just worth noting.
Love that detail. Yeah. So she enters into an operating
area and there are surgical tools all around, covered in blood,
bloodstained gauze and clumps all around. It's not good. No,
something major went down here. There are no signs of life.

(01:58:06):
From here. She walks down a small hallway that is
lined with pipe's galore.

Speaker 1 (01:58:12):
And this is just to appease my another fandom that
I love very much. I made an alien reference to
you on how this scene was lit in particular. And
if you do not get this reference, please go and
watch the alien movies. The first one will get you
in the know and through the door, but watch them all.

Speaker 2 (01:58:31):
Because I said so, my name is Ellie Ripley, and
I'm the last survivor of Seattle, I was.

Speaker 1 (01:58:39):
Gonna say to Stromu because I can't not yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:58:43):
Continuing on, she follows down a stairwell and walks slowly,
shining her light on some of the decor all around. Eventually,
Ellie spots some pretty recent foot steps footprints. It could
have been dust or water, we don't know, but we
see some footprints leading to a door that is propped
open with a cinderblock. So her light goes out, her

(01:59:04):
gun is raised. She enters quietly. We hear voices in
the distance and a name Owen we know that name.
The woman speaking doesn't want to come off as some
sort of heartless bitch, that this isn't about them anyways,
she says. She continues on, talking about being behind enemy

(01:59:24):
lines alone at night, that quote unquote, this is suicide
under normal circumstances, and you want to do this now
is posed it's Mel and she asks Owen if he
even understands what's going on. He says he understands everything,
but doesn't have a choice, that it's Abby. But Male

(01:59:45):
counters with how he has a choice and so does she,
and she is choosing no because it's Abby. So Owen
begins to pack up some maps and resigns himself to
doing quote unquote it alone like he always does. That
he can make it there and back again in thirty

(02:00:06):
and if Mel was still there, that she can get
on board and keep going with us, meaning presumably Owen
an Abby. But if she's not, then so be it.
Like you can either gun with us or not, but
that's up to you. Mel is upset and curses him
with a fuck you, Owen and walks off, And this
is when she finally sees Ellie. Ellie holds them hostage

(02:00:29):
and asks where Abby is. Owen is surprised with a
you gotta be kidding me. Then he begins to plead
with Ellie, saying he is the one who kept Ellie alive.
Then he denies knowing where Abby is, but Ellie finally
says something intelligent with you were just talking about her so, yes,
you fucking do. Ellie spots the map on the table

(02:00:50):
and people, you know this is a good one. It's
an information tactic here we learned a while back. You
bring me that map, point to where Abby is, and
then you're going to do the same, and the locations
better match. Right. It's a classic Jewel tactic right there. Yeah.
Owen looks back at Mel, but they say nothing. Ellie
begins a five second countdown, which gets them moving. Owen

(02:01:13):
says that either way, Ellie will kill them. Ellie says
she won't because she's not like them. Hey, you know
what she's not. She is not like them.

Speaker 1 (02:01:23):
In the game, I would not have believed Ellie for
a split second, but in this show, I actually believe
she would have let them go. Interesting because she's fucking soft.

Speaker 2 (02:01:34):
Wow. Well, I mean it's really the mission, is appy.
You know. These people are incidental to it. Accomplices perhaps,
but incidental to the goal.

Speaker 1 (02:01:43):
I think collateral damage is the expression.

Speaker 2 (02:01:46):
Unless you let them go. But here we go. Ellie
continues the countdown as Owen tries to signal her without words.
Mel moves to the map, but Owen offers to give
the information slowly, but because he is, uh, you know,
maybe a cowboy. You know, let's just call it that.

(02:02:07):
The reaches just below the map for his pistol, whips
it around and fires at Ellie, but Ellie is faster.
She shoots one bullet from Joel's revolver and it goes
right through Owen's throat and he drops immediately. Nasty way
to go.

Speaker 1 (02:02:23):
It is Ellie's expression here. She looks shocked beyond measure,
and it's hilarious for me and to me that she's
barely been able to make a single shot all season,
but in this moment gets spooked into the perfect twofer.

Speaker 2 (02:02:39):
Well did he he got off a shot? Right? He
just missed?

Speaker 1 (02:02:43):
Yeah, he got off a shot. But she literally panicked
and just fired her the fucking revolver. And again, going
back to episode three, Dina says, it's slow, but it's.

Speaker 2 (02:02:55):
Powerful, right and it kicks like a mule or whatever
she said. It's yeah, it's got a huge kickback or something.
I don't know what she said exactly, but yeah, yeah.
Mel turns around. Mel, who was standing behind oh And
at this point, turns around and notes that the bullet hole.
There's a bullet hole in the metal cabinet behind her,

(02:03:17):
then realizes the artery in her throat has been hit.
Let's call it clipped right, but it's not good, and
then she falls to the ground. She asks Ellie if
she has a knife as she unbuttons her jacket, revealing
a very pregnant belly. Ellie gasps as she here here's.
Mel tell her that she only has about thirty seconds

(02:03:38):
and to get the fuck over there and help. She
tells Ellie to get it the fuck out, meaning the baby,
but Ellie panics because she doesn't know how to do that,
but Mel does. It'll be one incision, that's all it is,
and then to cut the cord and work fast. Mel
begins to fade during this, and Ellie asks how deep,
which way? Still doing nothing. Mel Bel's eyes are staring

(02:04:02):
as her voice drifts. It won't be long, she asks
Meil one more time, which way. Meil begins to repeat
herself low transverse, transverse, low transverse, low transverse, but Ellie
doesn't know what that means and asks again and again, whispering,
but Meil begins to whisper that Ellie is doing good
and asks if it's out, and then she dies. Ellie

(02:04:23):
cries and pulls Mel's shirt down over her belly, insuring
the fate of the infant inside. And she weeps over
Mel here and sits away staring at Mel's abdomen.

Speaker 1 (02:04:35):
And this is they what is it called rac focus?
They put it on Mel's belly. And I gotta be
honest with you, I would have fucking screamed if they
showed a kick or any movement from that baby in
that moment. And I have a sneaking suspicion that that
was absolutely discussed as an option, but somebody with some

(02:04:59):
of a brain in their fucking skull said, don't you
dare do that?

Speaker 2 (02:05:03):
Yeah, that would have been it would have.

Speaker 1 (02:05:05):
Been so hard to watch. Yeah, and we'll talk about
this whole baby situation when you finish the moment, but
that in particular, I wanted to talk about that actual shot.

Speaker 2 (02:05:16):
Yeah, I'm sure we'll get to it at maybe towards
the end of the section too. But just shout out
to this actress who was portraying Mel here was this
was like really heartbreaking to watch. She did she did
a great job. Here. I was like, yeah, this is
like a thing you don't you train. It's like a
train wreck. You don't want to see it, but you
can't look away, right. The next shot shows Male's blood

(02:05:36):
running towards a drain in the floor. Ellie continues to
cry in silence, here visibly shaken, and then Tommy's voice
cuts through within Ellie Ellie. He runs in and scene
sees this pretty gruesome scene before him owen and at
pregnant male dead. Ellie knelt beside her. Tommy reaches for

(02:05:57):
Ellie the same way Joel did and gets her up
and off the floor. Jesse just stares at her as
they walk by him.

Speaker 1 (02:06:04):
So two things I want to talk about. Good one,
This was one of my favorite, not favorite moments, but
favorite choices in the Last of Us part to the
video game. When Tommy approached Ellie in the video game,
he said Ellie, Ellie, but it actually was Joel's voice
that she was hearing. Yeah, and that was It was

(02:06:28):
extremely powerful because it showed just how unstable and disassociated
from reality that she had become. But yes, they obviously
did not do that here. I think they went with
the physicality of Tommy holding Ellie's face, which was something
that Joel has done. And that's okay. It still wasn't

(02:06:50):
as good, but I'm glad they did something still. So
the second thing we got to talk about is this
wildly new decision that they made to place all of
the responsibility of this infant's life directly on Ellie's shoulders.
So spoilers for the game, Ellie stabs Mel with her

(02:07:13):
switchblade in the neck. They actually fought over this, and
Ellie overpowers Mel and gets her in the throat in
the pretty much the same area that she had been shot.
But Ellie didn't realize that she was pregnant because Mel
was still wearing the jacket, it was zipped up, she
wasn't showing that much, and by the time Ellie realizes it,

(02:07:36):
Mel has already passed away, So there was no option
in the game for Ellie to give Mel a c section,
essentially and save a baby's life. But here in the
show they have Ellie accidentally kill both Owen and Mel
and then make a very divisive decision for her to

(02:07:58):
do absolutely nothing about a very much a live baby
still inside of Mel's body. This was sick. This was
disturbingly sick to watch an unfold, and I don't really
understand the only reason that I could think of doing
something so shocking is because they have done nothing throughout

(02:08:19):
this season to leave Ellie with deep trauma from this journey.
That's that's it.

Speaker 2 (02:08:28):
Yeah, Okay, I won't say without spoiling potentially something that
would we would learn and would unfold in season three.
Here's what I could say. This is a thing from
the game that didn't need to come over to the
television show, this mel being pregnant, It did not need
to come over from the game at all, And it

(02:08:52):
always struck me as a little bit weird about the
coincidence or the contrivance whatever we want to call it,
of like we have.

Speaker 1 (02:08:58):
Two pregnant people or know it's stupid.

Speaker 2 (02:09:01):
There's that thing in Hollywood where it's like anytime you
add a baby to the equation, to a television show,
to a move, whatever, that's when the goes off a cliff, right,
And now we added two in one in the span
of a day. Let's say like in game in World
day we learn about two babies. So I don't know,

(02:09:24):
I don't, I didn't. This was tough to watch. It
was certainly like very realistically acted about, like the panic
that would overcome a person. Sure in the in the
part of Bella Ramsey and then Meil the panic of
knowing what is your fate because clearly you're some sort

(02:09:45):
of medic and you know, like this is there's no
surviving this for me, right yeah, yeah, and so props
to both the actors, but like this, it did not
have to go this way. No, And certainly what you
said also about now in a way this is on
Ellie's conscience, which is like.

Speaker 1 (02:10:07):
Because this is a direct this is a direct killing.
Now killing Owen and mel were accidental, Yeah, and in
some ways self defense because Owen tried to fire or
shot at her, but knowingly not cutting this baby out
of her belly ensured the death of that child. Yeah,
of that infant.

Speaker 2 (02:10:27):
I don't know how many people would be up to
that task.

Speaker 1 (02:10:30):
Not many.

Speaker 2 (02:10:31):
So that's I'm not even I'm not even saying, like
Ellie kill a baby like I will not. I won't
go out that far like she. That reaction for me
was maybe the most human thing that's happened this season.
What am I doing? What do I cut transverse? What
the fuck does that mean? You know, like putting myself
in those shoes? God forbid, I'd probably react the same way.

Speaker 1 (02:10:56):
I have to assume no, I would try a hundred
would try because there's no way I think the is
if Ellie succeeded in getting that baby out of Mel's body, yes,
then then what.

Speaker 2 (02:11:13):
That's yeah, exactly correct. So like, now we have this
baby that we need to clothe and feed and care
for and somehow get out of Seattle right a fucking
war zone in the most torrential monsoon that we've seen
potentially on television. And I'm like, I don't know what
we're doing.

Speaker 1 (02:11:32):
So it was yeah, it was just it was it
was the layer. It was the traumatic moment that had
to happen for Ellie because they didn't give her any
of it throughout the season.

Speaker 2 (02:11:44):
Yeah, and a needless complication yep at that. So there, Yeah,
I'm on board with you for that one. I'm like,
what the what are we doing? Oh?

Speaker 1 (02:11:55):
Finally Andrew said it. I've been screaming it for the
past three episodes. What do we do it?

Speaker 2 (02:12:00):
Here's what I'll say, And again we're almost done here.
But here's what I'll say is like, while there are
episodes remaining, I remain hopeful, right because there's always the
potential of a payoff that we didn't see coming. But
now it's done, and so now we have hindsight. They've

(02:12:20):
laid all their cards on the table, and so now
all you can do is judge it based on the
merit of what was provided. There's no more like, oh
maybe next episode. And so when something is like doesn't
make sense or it's out right bad, yeah, I just
have to base it off of what has been provided
and written and acted. And I'm like, well, the hope,

(02:12:45):
it's the hope.

Speaker 1 (02:12:45):
That kills you, all right, let's get back to the theater,
no boy. So Dina removes the barricades from the door
and lets Tommy, Ellie, and Jesse inside, and she's relieved
to see them and hugs Tommy. Ellie just bypasses Dina
and says nothing. Dina stares on in silence, and then

(02:13:06):
we see that she is resting again. As Jesse and
Tommy figure out a way to get back to Jackson
with an injured Dina and terrible weather still raging outside,
and Ellie walks out from behind the stage curtain and sits.
Tommy approaches her and tries to reason with Ellie over
what happened that they meaning melan ohen worry. Part of
it Joel's death, and they each made their own choices.

(02:13:29):
Ellie doesn't talk about them, but rather how Abby gets
to live, and Tommy asks Ellie if she is able
to make peace with that, and Ellie guesses she will
just have to, meaning she's going to have to make
peace with it because that's the only option at this point,
and Ellie looks to Jesse, but Jesse doesn't even bother
looking over at her, and Tommy kind of glances between

(02:13:50):
Ellie and Jesse and realizes that he needs to be
somewhere else in this moment, so he leaves for the lobby,
and there is an awkward silence that settles between them
at first, but Ellie ultimately speaks first and thanks Jesse
for coming back, but Jesse says maybe he didn't want to,
maybe Tommy made me come back, and Ellie asks if

(02:14:11):
Tommy did make him come back, to which Jesse says nope,
and then she nods and half smirks because everything is funny,
and then throws out a because you're a good person,
and Jesse does say yeah, but also he considers the
possibility that if it was him out there, Ellie would
have set the world on fire to save him, and

(02:14:34):
she confirms that, yeah, she would. And I know that
I'm gonna make a little bit of a joke here,
but Ellie can barely set a fucking campfire a light
since Joel's beaten, horrifying death in front of her, And
yet Jesse still has enough confidence to think that Ellie
would come and save him and burn the world to
the ground. Sir, what are you basing your information on?

(02:14:56):
Because it ain't fucking fact. Here's the thing, Just because
you're out there like this is not the It's the
thought that counts situation. You have to actually fucking know
what you're doing. And clearly Ellie is just bumbling around
because that's what the writers intended for her this season.
I would have exactly zero confidence that she would come
and save my ass. Anyway. At that moment, we hear

(02:15:18):
loud sound and gun shot and a gunshot from the lobby.
Jesse and Ellie haul ass from the stage to the lobby,
pulling their weapons. Jesse makes it through the door first
and gets shot directly in the face, which kills him
instantly by none other than Abby and Ellie ducks quickly
behind the bar as Abby yells for Ellie to stand up.

(02:15:40):
And Abby is holding a gun on Tommy, who is
on the ground, so we're assuming here that he took
a shot and demands again for Ellie to stand up
with her hands in the air or she will kill
Tommy too. And Ellie instantly starts crying and begs for
Abby to stop. She tosses her gun and then stands
with her hand in the air, and Abby looks at

(02:16:01):
her and realizes who she is with it you and
Ellie asks for Abby to just let Tommy go, but
Abby thinks that Tommy killed her friends, but no, Ellie
corrects her here and says that it was her, that
she was looking for her, meaning looking for Abby and
didn't mean to hurt Mel and Owen and I guess Nora,
but whatever. Ellie says that she knows why Abby killed Joel,

(02:16:25):
that he did what he did to save Ellie, but
she's the one that Abby ultimately wants. Ellie looks down
at Tommy and then continues to beg for Abby to
let him go. And it's not really doing a lot
of work, or it's not really doing anything, but Abby
with clear ligature marks around her throat that I just
needed to note, breathes heavily and repeats I let you live.

(02:16:48):
I let you live, and you wasted it. And after this,
Abby raises her gun. Ellie screams a few nos, it
cuts to black, and we hear a gunshot. So number one,
rest in peace, Jesse. I wasn't sure if they were
going to stick to that and kill Jesse in the
exact same manner, but here we are. And number two,

(02:17:12):
Kitlyn Deaver out acted Bella Ramsey so fucking much in
a ninety second scene that it's embarrassing. And I'm not
trying to be harsh. I'm not trying to be like, ah,
she can't. I'm stating what we were given through seven
episodes of television versus the ninety seconds that Caitlyn Deaver

(02:17:32):
is in that moment. She acted her fucking ass off.
And I do not, in any way, shape or form
want to support Abby. So I'm not. I'm supporting Kitlyn. Never. Yeah,
And I just needed to say that, No, it's a
good call. And the third point is just Ellie fucking
crying at every single moment and begging and showing remorse

(02:17:53):
and saying that she didn't mean to kill Amel, and oh, like,
who is this person? He is a fucking coward. She
is a fucking coward who stands for nothing and is
literally crumbling over every fucking moment that happens on this show.
Either she's I ain't get in my way and stamping

(02:18:13):
her feet or stupid a literal fucking idiot, or begging
and crying and weeping like that's going to make a
difference in this world. God, I can't stand her. She
needs a rewrite so so bad.

Speaker 2 (02:18:27):
And maybe maybe, maybe maybe she should give it. Who knows.
I wanted to note something real quickly, just as a
just as a way for me to understand you, to
let you know that I understand. There was a Keanu
Reeves film named The Devil's Advocate where Keanu Reeves acted
alongside a man named al Pacino, and boy, oh boy,

(02:18:51):
that was hard to watch. I'm telling yeah, so I
guess feel And the difference is I love Keanu Reeves.
Everybody who knows me knows that, and yet here I
am willing to admit, boy, that was hard to watch.

Speaker 1 (02:19:08):
So it's it's difficult when somebody out acts the main character. Yeah,
in such a short scene that's embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (02:19:20):
Again, it's not a here and here's what I'll say.
I will just really say this. I don't believe it
to be a failing of any one person as it
relates to this show. There's the writing, there's the performance,
there's the actual directing a day of. Then there's the editing.

(02:19:43):
Right of. They say that a move. This is applical
to movies, but television as well. A movie gets made
three times when you write it, when you film it,
and when you edit it. And the same is true here.
This television show got made three times. Every episode got
made three times, and for whatever reason, a lot of

(02:20:07):
these kind of baffling decisions just made it through three
three times. Right, So this is what we're left with.

Speaker 1 (02:20:17):
Unfortunate.

Speaker 2 (02:20:18):
Yeah, After cutting to black, we get something pretty interesting.
We see Abby sleeping on a couch and Manny bursts
in and wakes her. She was reading Thieves of the City,
a book named Thieves of the City. I'm going to
tell you a little bit about that book right now.

(02:20:39):
It's say, two thousand and eight historical fiction novel David Benioff.
And if that name sounds familiar, that's because he was
one of the co creators of Game of Thrones. It
is in part a coming of age story set in
World War Two during the Siege of Leningrad. It follows
the adventures of two youths they desperately search for a

(02:21:01):
dozen eggs at the behest of a Soviet nk VD officer,
a task that takes them far behind enemy lines. So interesting.
Mammy tells Abby that Isaac wants to talk to them,
so get moving.

Speaker 1 (02:21:15):
I just need to point out that Abby is literally
wearing lip gloss.

Speaker 2 (02:21:20):
I woke up like this. A woke up like this.

Speaker 1 (02:21:23):
Hashtag apokasaphora.

Speaker 2 (02:21:26):
Let's get that go and everyone a paka safara.

Speaker 1 (02:21:28):
It's going to be a T shirt, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:21:30):
Abby says she will be there in five minutes, but
if she's late, it'll be her funeral. She walks out
and through a large hall, then pushes open a door
and exits. Abby walks to the metal railings and looks
over what we now know is Lumen Field, where the
Seattle Seahawks NFL team plays or played in this case.

(02:21:52):
There are crops and greenhouses on the field, along with
livestock and much much more. This is clearly a headquarters
of the WLF.

Speaker 1 (02:22:03):
And this is where we're going to talk about Abby's
watch very quickly. Sure, it is very similar to Joel's
in color and style. So when we talked about how
Joel's father was likely in Vietnam and passed his watch
down to his son in the last episode, we were
on the fucking money because this is a military style watch.

(02:22:24):
And again, this was a completely unnecessary choice to have
another It's the same story told from two different perspectives.
Bonk on the fucking head. I can't express how much
we just need to give this a rest, but they
just keep going and it makes them watch, in my opinion,
even more insignificant, because you know, everyone's out here, we'reing

(02:22:46):
the same fucking thing. Who cares?

Speaker 2 (02:22:48):
And you get a watch and you get a watch.

Speaker 1 (02:22:51):
Yeah. And again, like if they thought people weren't going
to notice that and have an opinion on it, they
were wrong. And it's me I'm people.

Speaker 2 (02:23:00):
Yeah, shout out to this headquarters as well. Game players.
This was the game, right, This was the same setup
in the game. However, this really reminds me of Diamond
City from Fallout four, a game that came out many
years beforehand, and makes me think that maybe a stadium

(02:23:20):
might be added to this list of placesn't it.

Speaker 1 (02:23:23):
Oh for sure.

Speaker 2 (02:23:24):
I'd have to think about it though, because like our
stadium has a lot of openings. I'm talking about Citizens
Bank Park has a lot of openings, but our football
stadium more secure, So maybe it's dependent on the stadium anyway.

Speaker 1 (02:23:37):
Yeah, I would go to the link before I would
go to citizens Bank Park.

Speaker 2 (02:23:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. So let's take it
out here. The season finale ends with Abby looking out
over the field before walking off, and then text pops
up reading Seattle Day one.

Speaker 1 (02:23:58):
And we are not going to talk about this because
it would just be way too spoilery. So I'm putting
the call out there to show watchers only. What do
you think this means? Please email us at tloupodcast at
gmail dot com or message us over on Instagram. That

(02:24:19):
is all we are going to say about it. It
is the end of the episode, is the end of
the season, and I could not be happier.

Speaker 2 (02:24:25):
We did it. We did it.

Speaker 1 (02:24:27):
I wasn't sure we were going to it'd be perfectly honest,
but we did.

Speaker 2 (02:24:30):
The Last of Us.

Speaker 1 (02:24:34):
HBO's The Last of Us is more like it. So
if you would like to talk about anything that we've
covered on this episode or any of the ones that
preceded this one, you can do that over on Instagram
at tlou Podcasts or Blue Sky at tlou podcast or
you can email us again at tlou podcast at gmail

(02:24:57):
dot com. You can find us by looking up Wayfair
and Strangers or the last cast on YouTube, and that
will lead us or lead you to the Promised Land.
So go head over there and subscribe. Check out some
videos that we have posted. We have more content to make,
more content to just spam, but one thing at a time,
one thing out of time. And if you'd like to

(02:25:18):
follow Andrew and I on Instagram, you can do that
at Jaded Vader for me or also through Wilderness for
me to hru Wilderness or dark Driving for Andrew or
Andrew Grimley over on blue.

Speaker 2 (02:25:32):
Sky domain verified.

Speaker 1 (02:25:34):
Hell yeah, yes, Thank you for everyone for all of
your Spotify reviews and comments, not reviews, thank you for
all your comments. I know that we take a big
chunk of our episode every single week to talk about these,
but it's important to us and it adds to what
we have been talking about all season. So I think
that it's imperative to our show in particular, so thank

(02:25:56):
you for always contributing and being part of that. Our
Patreon shout out our wonderful, wonderful supporters. So this goes
out to Eu Barb Ozzie, Atreios, Late nine ten, Craig
slash Vaded, Jader Good Craig the Good Good, Craig Good,
Craig Good Craig, and the Ghosts of Mister Joel. Thank

(02:26:20):
you guys so much for hanging with us and supporting
the show. We have much more coming and for anybody interested,
please head over to patreon dot com slash tlou podcast.
So we are going to take a week or two
off before diving into our emails, just to collectively take
a giant gulp of air and get back into some
sort of routine. For me, I need to get mys

(02:26:42):
back to the gym now that my tattoo is fully healed,
I got to start cooking some good, healthy ass food again.
And just being a member of society, a contributing member
of society that doesn't involve podcasting. So now we contributed,
give us a little bit of a break, a little
bit of wiggle room. It's not going to be what
it was last time. I'm excited to tackle your e y'all.

(02:27:03):
I'm excited to tackle your emails. And for anyone who
wrote in for season one, we are also going to
do those emails as well. So we didn't forget you.
We did not forget you. We are, however, going to
do them after we cover season two because if I
start talking about season one emails now, I will forget
everything that fucking happened in season two and it will
just melt my brain. So yeah, we're gonna We're gonna

(02:27:25):
take care of season two emails. Then we're going to
take care of season one and uh, and then we'll
just go from there as as as the content comes.
So thank you for being here with us.

Speaker 2 (02:27:38):
We did it.

Speaker 1 (02:27:39):
Thank you for allowing me to literally crash out every
single week and still come back wanting more somehow.

Speaker 2 (02:27:47):
So, hey, you're our emotional support people. We are your
emotional support people. It's a symbiotic relationship here, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:27:56):
Yep. And we did not see Joel's watch apart from
on his father's wrist, so that doesn't technically count.

Speaker 2 (02:28:04):
Abby was wearing it. Abby was wearing it.

Speaker 1 (02:28:06):
No, so we will but we're still make the donation
to Saint Juds and we'll post that on Instagram.

Speaker 2 (02:28:11):
Fine, I'll help the kids, unlike some characters in this
show who don't help kids.

Speaker 1 (02:28:21):
Rude and yet so necessary.

Speaker 2 (02:28:26):
Well, like Jackie said, we won't be back next week,
but until we are, let's celebrate surviving season two of
the Last of Us. And we didn't even get a
T shirt.

Speaker 1 (02:28:37):
Damn it, shirt.

Speaker 2 (02:28:41):
Man, Craig, give me my T shirt.

Speaker 1 (02:28:47):
Oh that's all we got seeing a couple of weeks
and Lord above, what just happened? What happened?

Speaker 2 (02:28:55):
Television? Prestige, television awful? I'm out.

Speaker 1 (02:29:36):
Besides a very brief mention from Jesse Stay saying Jimmer
Jim Jim Fuckmimmer, to live it.

Speaker 2 (02:29:47):
That's a fucking name I would make up. My horse's
name is Jimmer.

Speaker 1 (02:29:54):
Oh god, Okay,

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