Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Last Word with Lawrence o'donald starts right now. Hey Lawrence, Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Jen, I want to prepare you for something next week,
and that is that I am going to be on
vacation next Oh no.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yeah, and so you won't be.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Saying hi to me, but you will have some very
able people here who will be getting this hour through
the week. And I'm telling you, Jen, nothing nothing can
get me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Back here next week. Absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I don't care if somebody hand delivers me the Epstein
Birthday Book.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I'm nothing. Nothing's going to get me back here.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Well, I'm going to spread a rumor that you're writing
the next reboot of The West Wing.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Don't do that. Don't do that.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I'm going to do a segment each day on some
ideas for episodes, and we'll.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Take they take that very seriously. Don't do that. Don't
do that.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Sorry to control myself.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Okay, Thanks Jen, I'll see you week after next. Have
a good vacation, Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Well tonight, the Birthday Book is coming out, one page
at a time.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
That is the breaking news of the night.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Twenty four hours after we broke the news on this
program last night that a book of birthday letters to
Jeffrey Epstein on his fiftieth birthday is in the possession
of the Epstein estate in Florida. Other news organizations have
credit a reporting and been following up on it and
adding significantly to that reporting tonight. The latest reporting is
(01:32):
from the New York Times and it includes the image
of the first page of the Birthday Book. It is
a handwritten letter from Jeffrey Epstein's convicted co conspirator in
sex trafficking, Glaine Maxwell, who assembled the book with the
help of many of Jeffrey Epstein's rape victims who Jeffrey
(01:55):
Epstein and Ghlaine Maxwell raped and they were in middle
school and high school. We learned last night on this
program from the lawyer representing those victims that they were
told by Glainne Maxwell to help her actually assemble the
Birthday Book. And here is Elaine Maxwell's birthday note. The
(02:19):
very first page of the Birthday Book was the birthday
note from Elaine Maxwell to Jeffrey Epstein. Here it is
says Jeffrey, the idea behind this book was simply to
gather stories and old photographs to jog your memory about
places and people and different events. Some of the letters
(02:41):
will definitely achieve their intended goal. Some well, you will
have to read them to see for yourself. I know
you will enjoy looking through the book, and I hope
you will derive as much pleasure looking through it as
I did putting it together.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
For you.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Happy Happy Birthday, Love Gilen. Both the New York Times
and The Wall Street Journal and reporting tonight that Donald
Trump's name appears on the list of contributors to the
Birthday Book. The journal reports that contributes to the Birthday
Book Quote were grouped under categories such as science, Brooklyn,
and family. The journal says that Donald Trump and Bill
(03:19):
Clinton were listed on the friends group, which also included
Jeffrey Epstein's criminal defense lawyer, Alan Dershowitz. The New York
Times is also reporting tonight on another handwritten note to
Jeffrey Epstein by Donald Trump says to Jeff you are
the greatest, reads an inscription and a copy of mister
(03:42):
Trump's book Trump the art of the Comeback that belonged
to mister Epstein. And there it is you see it,
signed Donald. It's dated October nineteen ninety seven, the month
the book came up. That's signature that you just saw
be compared by handwriting experts to the Donald signature, that
(04:04):
one word signature that reportedly appears in the description of
the letter bearing Donald Trump's name in the Epstein birthday book,
as was first reported by The Wall Street Journal. Unlike
the Wall Street Journal's report on the Trump letter, the
Bill Clinton letter contains no sexual innuendo. The Journal describes
(04:25):
the Clinton page this way, a single paragraph in Clinton's
distinctive scrawl, saying, It's reassuring, isn't it to have lasted
as long across all the years of learning and knowing,
adventures and illegible word and also to have your childlike curiosity,
(04:46):
the drive to make a difference, and the solace of
friends land stuff. Nothing sexually suggestive in the Clinton birthday
message to Jeffrey Epstein, something that could have been written
by Clinton staff or Bill Clinton himself, The Wall Street
Journal reports. A spokesman for Clinton declined to comment on
(05:07):
the birthday message, which was reviewed by the journal. He
referred to the journal the Journal to a previous statement
that the former president had cut off ties more than
a decade before Epstein was arrested in twenty nineteen, and
didn't know about Epstein's alleged crimes. That is Bill Clinton
essentially validating the reporting that that is his letter. Bill
(05:30):
Clinton is not threatening to sue the Wall Street Journal
about the birthday book. He's not saying that's not my letter.
Alan Dershowitz is not threatening to sue the Wall Street
Journal about their reporting on the birthday Book, which includes
a letter from Alan Dershowitz to the child rapist. To
Alan Dershowitz defended in the first criminal cases against Jeffrey Epstein.
(05:51):
The Journal reports the letter from Dershowitz, who represented Epstein
in the first criminal case in the two thousands, included
a mock up of a Vanity Unfair magazine cover with
mock headlines It's been a long time, and I don't
recall the content of what I may have written, Dershowitz said.
So that's Alan Dershowitz confirming tonight that he contributed to
(06:15):
the birthday Book. Alan Dershwitz confirming the existence of the
Birthday Book.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Of all the.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
People mentioned in the Wall Street Journal reporting who contributed
to the birthday Book, including fashion designer Vera Wang, none
of them claim that they did not contribute to the
birthday book. Donald Trump is the only one making that claim,
and it's not working. And because Donald Trump knows it's
not working, he's been trying desperately to create other news stories,
(06:41):
including the childishly idiotic notion that President Barack Obama committed treason.
Nothing will come of any of that nonsense, and it
is unworthy of diverting our attention from what Donald Trump
wants us to stop talking about, and that is his
friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Because no one can humiliate Donald Trump better than Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
He did it once again today in another desperate and
failed attempt to take our attention away from Donald Trump's
fifteen year relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and that birthday book,
a period about which Jeffrey Epstein has said in a
tape recorded interview, I was Donald's closest friend for ten years.
FOX poll shows that eighty percent of registered voters are
(07:22):
following the Epstein case. Only thirteen percent of registered voters
believe the Trump administration has been open and transparent about
the Epstein case. Sixty seven percent disagree, including sixty percent
of Republicans and fifty six percent of Mega supporters. In
order to try to distract from how close he was
(07:42):
to Jeffrey Epstein. Donald Trump chose to stand close to
another white man today, although when they were standing together,
only one of them looked white because one of them
was covered in a badly applied orange makeup product. The
man with the orange makeup is the most self obsessed
human being on planet Earth, and he has full access
(08:03):
to mirrors all the time, and that means he has
seen his face without the orange makeup and with the
orange makeup, and he's decided that he looks better with it,
which leaves you wondering just how much older than Jerome
Powell would Donald Trump look if he wasn't covered in
orange makeup. Donald Trump is seventy nine years old. Jerome
(08:24):
Powell is seven years younger and immeasurably more intelligent than
Donald Trump. And that was on displayed today when Donald Trump,
in his failed attempt to deferred our attention from his
relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, went to the Federal Reserve headquarters,
which is being remodeled, and thought he would shame Jerome
Powell because the construction project was over budget. According to
(08:47):
a piece of paper given to Donald Trump by the
most incompetent White House staff in history, a piece of
paper that took Jerome Powell seconds to read and seconds
more to explain to Donald Trump how his piece of
paper is.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
It was the perfect lesson and.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Why Donald Trump normally avoids confronting anyone who he knows
is much much smarter than he is.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
So we're taking a look, and it looks like it's.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
About three point one billion. Went up a little bit
or a lot.
Speaker 7 (09:22):
So the two point seven is now three point one.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
Yeah, it just came out.
Speaker 8 (09:29):
Yeah, I haven't heard that from anybody to feed.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I just came.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
I knows about three point one as well. This game
from us.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yes, I don't know who does that.
Speaker 6 (09:47):
You're including the Martin renovation. You just added retire capital. Yeah,
you just you just added in the third buildings.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
What that is.
Speaker 8 (09:53):
That's a third building.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
It's a building that's being built.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
It's been it was built five years ago.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
We finished Martin five years ago.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Donald Trump claims to be the real estate guy. Jerome
Powell doesn't claim to be the real estate guy. But
jer Own Powell apparently did very well in arithmetic in
elementary school. By the time jer Own Powell was in
the third grade, he could have done what you just
saw him do to Donald Trump. Donald Trump was adding
in the cost of a third building that was built
(10:22):
five years ago, and Jerome Powell handed Donald Trump a
kind of humiliation no present before him has ever suffered.
And so that Trump video humiliation will now be seen
by millions and millions and millions of viewers just over.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
The next twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
It's very likely going to be on Stephen Colbert's show
and other late night shows.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
They'll be running that video. Then it'll be running on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And yes, there's something especially delicious about a clown being
clowned like that, But what's important about it is that
that was the very best move Donald Trump thought he
had to day to try to turn news coverage away
from the birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein that bears Donald
(11:07):
Trump's name and what we now know to be several
copies of the birthday book. Tonight, the Wall Street Journal
is reporting this the letter bearing Trump's signature, which had
the outline of a naked woman, was one of the
more memorable pages, according to the people involved in putting
the album together. Last night on this program, Bradley Edwards
(11:31):
told us who helped Julane Maxwell put.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That book together.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
You said that some of your clients have specific knowledge
of that birthday book.
Speaker 6 (11:45):
Sure, yes, more than one, multiple of them.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And what is that knowledge?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
They saw it or they were around him when he
was fifty years old? Were they present at the at
his birthday, his fiftieth birthday?
Speaker 6 (11:57):
I don't know they answer that last question.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
You know that they were involved in the assembly of
the book. Several of them. They were told by Gillen
to assist in putting.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
The book together.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Others have seen the book post birthday and after it
was assembled.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Some of Jeffrey Epstein's victims were actually used by Elaine
Maxwell to assemble that birthday book, to actually put those
letters together in that book.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
You have to remember that Jeffrey Epstein was abusing and
exploiting young women and children every day of his life.
So anybody that's around for any major events such as
the assembly of his fiftieth birthday book, they're going to
have to be involved in assembling or playing their part
whatever they were directed to do with respect to that book.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Well Street Journal reported at seven oh eight pm tonight,
Brad Edwards, a lawyer who has represented more than two
hundred of Epstein's victims, said on MSNBC Wednesday evening that
he has multiple clients who remember the birthday book.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
The existence of the book as an absolute fact.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Edwards said, several digital copies of the album have been
created pages have been reviewed by Justice Department officials who
investigated Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell years ago. According to people
familiar with the matter, the album is part of Epstein's estate.
Several copies means that the likelihood of the birthday Book
(13:36):
becoming public is increasing exponentially. MSNBC's legal correspondent Lisa Ruben,
a frequent and valuable guest on this program, asked Elaine
Maxwell's lawyer tonight does Maxwell herself have the book? And
Maxwell's lawyer declined to comment. But today Elaine Maxwell's criminal
(13:56):
defense lawyer spent most of his day hanging with Donald
Trump's criminal defense lawyer. Todd Blanche's last job before becoming
the number two at the Justice Department as the Deputy
Attorney General, was serving as Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer
in his criminal the criminal cases that Donald Trump was
facing last year, Todd Blanche lost the one case that
(14:19):
went to trial, and he still delighted in his failing
final argument to the jury in which he called the
prosecution witness Michael Cohen, Donald Trump's former lawyer, the greatest
liar of all time. Here is criminal defense lawyer Todd
Blanche after losing that trial last year, talking about that
trial with Glenne, Maxwell's criminal defense lawyer who Todd Blanche
(14:43):
spent the day with today.
Speaker 6 (14:46):
Last thing about the closing.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
So so you call them the MVP of liars. I
love the gloat line. Of course you loved it because you.
Speaker 9 (14:53):
Gave it to me, David say to the world, so genius.
In all serious as to you, I know a lot
of people that have worked with you. I know a
lot of people who know you very well. I now
consider you a friend and someone who I know pretty well.
You are by far the best out there, and I'll
always say yes to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Those two friends met today in what is the first
time in Justice Department in history that a Deputy Attorney
General seized a case away from the prosecutor handling the
case after firing that prosecutor last week Marine Comi and
then taking it upon himself to go have a meeting
with a convicted sex trafficker who was also charged with perjury.
(15:39):
There is absolutely no legitimate basis for such a meeting
with the Deputy Attorney general, former criminal defense lawyer for
Donald Trump, who gave every appearance today of still functioning
as in effect, Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer. Could Todd
Blanche have any other purpose in talking to Delayine Maxwell
than trying to get her to say something positive about
(16:03):
his client, Donald Trump. Todd Blanche tweeted today today I
met with Elaine Maxwell and I will continue my interview
of her tomorrow. The Department of Justice will share additional
information about what we learned at the appropriate time. Elaine Maxwell,
as a lawyer, said this after the strangest meeting a
(16:25):
criminal defense lawyer has ever had with a Deputy Attorney
General of the United States.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
Good as newer villain. Great, come on overland, Hi, everybody,
Nice to see it you all.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
We had a very productive day today with the Deputy
Attorney General, Todd Blanche and Glenn Maxwell. First, we want
to thank the Deputy Attorney General for being so professional
with all of us and for meeting with us. He
took a full day and asked a lot of questions,
(17:11):
and Miss Maxwell answered every single question. She never stopped,
she never invoked a privilege she never declined to answer.
She answered all the questions truthfully, honestly, and to the
best of her ability. And that's all the comment we're
going to have today about the meeting.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
And so tonight the victims of Jeffrey Epstein, who were
in middle school and high school when Jeffrey Epstein and
Kilaine Maxwell raped them together, have more to fear tonight
from Elaine Maxwell thanks to Donald Trump. Donald Trump's former
criminal defense lawyer offered Gilaine Maxwell what exactly what to
(17:51):
answer his questions today. Kilaine Maxwell, who never testified in
her own defense in her criminal trial, knowing she was
facing a possible twenty years in prison, suddenly decided today
that she would talk to a criminal prosecutor for the
first time in her life. She could have done that
when she and Jeffrey Epstein were both charged for those crimes,
(18:12):
but she didn't.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
She fled.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
She was hiding out in New Hampshire when she was
tracked down by federal agents and apprehended.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And even though.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
She was facing a federal criminal trial in which she knew,
there wasn't one word of testimony that she could give
to that jury under oath that wouldn't make the case
against her even worse.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
That's what she knew.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
That's why criminal defendants like Elaine Maxwell don't testify. If
Glene Maxwell thought for a second that she could have
helped herself with the jury with even one juror by testifying,
she would have testified. But she knew, and her criminal
defense attorney knew that the testimony against Gilaine Maxwell by
her victims who she personally raped along with Jeffrey Epstein.
(19:00):
She didn't just lure them into being raped by Jeffrey Epstein.
She joined Jeffrey Epstein in the room and joined personally
in raping those girls. She knew that that testimony against
her in court was something she could not possibly overcome,
and so she didn't say a word. She decided there's
(19:21):
nothing that she could say under oath to counter that testimony.
But today, according to her lawyer, she answered every question.
She never stopped, she never invoked privilege. What did Todd
Blanche offer her to make her suddenly decide she was
safe with Donald Trump's former criminal defense attorney.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Why did Elaine.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Maxwell decide today that she could tell Donald Trump's former
criminal defense attorney anything and it couldn't possibly get her
in more trouble. Here's what Bradley Edwards, the lawyer for
hundreds of Epstein and Maxwell victims, told us last night.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
One thing that has really alarmed our clients, particularly today
is the information that now Gilan Maxwell's being visited in
jail and that she is somehow being given some credibility
and a platform on this particular topic.
Speaker 6 (20:21):
I think what people are forgetting is.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
That Gilln Maxwell wasn't only indicted on sex trafficking charges.
Giln Maxwell because of testimony she gave on multiple occasions
in the civil cases where we suit her, she provided
testimony and as a consequence of false testimony, she was
indicted on two perjury counts on this particular topic. So
we're at we're going to go and ask somebody to
(20:46):
tell the truth. Who was indicted on perjury charges related
to this particular topic. Now, does she have information that
could potentially help yes, will she be truthful about it?
Speaker 6 (20:56):
Who knows.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
But whoever is going to be the questioner, whoever's going
to be the entreator, must know more than just a
rudimentary understanding of the case. You have to have seen
her other deposition transcripts to know what she's said so
that you're going to keep her in line. You have
to know her testimony from her criminal trial to keep
her in line, and you have to understand the.
Speaker 6 (21:15):
Case sending somebody there that knows nothing.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
She's going to say whatever she wants to say, and
what's her incentive is her incentive because she's going to
get a deal. I have many clients who say, look,
President Trump and Galyn Maxwell were good friends back then?
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Is he going to commute her? Is he going to
pardon her?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
And I have said to them, look, I know that
you feel like an afterthought right now.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
I know that you feel like you don't matter.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
For him to do that would be he thought about
you and he decided you don't do not matter.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Good friends back then. Donald Trump and Gilen Maxwell were
good friends, and it looks like Donald Trump's former criminal
defense lawyer in Gilenn Maxwell's criminal defense lawyer, are trying
to make them good friends once again. Andrew Weisman will
join us after the spring.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
In the Justice.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Department filing in the Glainne Maxwell case in twenty twenty,
the Justice Department then said the defendant's willingness to brazenly
lie under oath about her conduct, including some of the
conduct charged in the indictment, strongly suggests her true motive
has been and remains to avoid being held accountable for
(22:34):
her crimes. Join US now is Andrew Weisman, former FBI
General Counsel and former chief of the Criminal Division in
Eastern District of New York.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Also with US.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Christopher Leary, former Assistant Special Agent in charge of New
York Joint Terrorism Task Force, also served as chief of
the FBI counter Terrorism Fly Team. They're both MSNBC analysts.
And Andrew to that point that I just read Justice
Department in twenty twenty saying, talking about Juliane Maxwell's willingness
(23:03):
to brazenly lie under oath, how would that work today.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
In a room with Todd Blanche.
Speaker 10 (23:15):
This is why the comment from your guest yesterday was
so on point. If you're going to try to get
truthful information from her at this very late date, you
need to have the team, the FBI agents, the prosecutors
(23:36):
who investigated this, who know chapter and verse about what
she has said, what she has done, what all of
the other witnesses say. Otherwise, what really appears to be
is an effort to have Glenn Maxwell simply exonerate Donald Trump,
regardless of whether it is truthful or not. That is
(24:00):
obviously her motive right now is to get a benefit,
and that could be up to an including, as you mentioned,
a full pardon. And the only way that you can
really assure that she was telling the truth is to
have people who really know the evidence. And we've talked
about this, which is that is not the Deputy Attorney
(24:21):
General of the United States, who is new to the
case and doesn't have career people there at all. So
it's just a highly, highly suspicious circumstance.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And Andrew, this is the same Trump Justice Apartment that
just said a few weeks ago that there's absolutely nothing
more in the Epstein case, that they've examined all of
the Epstein files and there's nothing else to pursue, there's
nothing else to investigate, there's nothing else to report on.
That was the Pambondi official public report about the Epstein files.
Speaker 10 (24:57):
Well, I have to say, personally, I just don't believe
that it is something if you heard that from the
career people who know this case inside out, But are
we really supposed to believe and I don't that the
only two people who participated in this are Jeffrey Epstein
and Glene Maxwell, that there were no other people who
(25:20):
participated at all. And I think one sort of read
herring here is this idea that there's no quote unquote
client list, whether it's you know, there's a piece of
paper that says client list at the top of it.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
It seems impossible.
Speaker 10 (25:37):
To think that the FBI on this case and the
prosecutors on this case didn't put together a list of
everyone who they thought was complicit with mister Epstein and
with ms Maxwell, whether you call it a client list
or not. And so I think there's just a lot
more to come out, and I don't think we're being
(25:58):
told the truth about what's happened.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Christopher Leary, if you were working a case like this
with the FBI, and you've worked in the New York
office where a lot of this work was done, what
kind of lists would you expect to find in the
Epstein files.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
Well, you know, I think Andrew hits on the point,
maybe there's not a list that you know Jeffrey Epstein
was keeping or Glenne Maxwell was keeping. However, any investigator,
any agent that's working in this case is going to
identify the close associates of this subject of the investigation
and then start determining what's the nature of that relationship
(26:36):
when where they co located in a place where criminal
activity was happening, and so those individuals might have been
there innocently, but you would still want to dig deeper.
So one thing that jumps out at me, and I
was discussing this with the colleague earlier, is I would
like to know was the president interviewed as part of
this investigation? And I don't think that's been answered yet.
(26:59):
I don't think it's really been asked by that many people.
It would be unusual for the types of investigations that
I worked, or that my fellow agents and investigators worked,
that we would not have tried to approach that close
associate and see if they were willing to cooperate. And
if they weren't, then it begs the question why, And
(27:21):
I don't think we've seen that yet. Is it unusual
that the president's name would be found in these files? No,
if he was a close associate, it would be unusual
if there wasn't further investigation.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
So I asked you.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
This in an office the other day here in the
building about you know, if you were working this case
in the New York office the FBI and you came
across the New York magazine profile of Donald Trump saying,
I've known him for fifteen years. He's a terrific guy.
He likes a beautiful women, especially on.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
The younger side.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
If you read that article, would your to do list
include let's go talk to Donald Trump?
Speaker 8 (27:59):
It would be in the first Which thing I think
myself or other agents would do is try to find
out more about him, try to find out is the
approachable how do we go about this? So what I
would understand the person I want to go talk to
and set the conditions for trying to do that in
the best way.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Will he be a cooperator?
Speaker 8 (28:14):
Or is he possibly somebody that we should be looking at,
you know, more on the investigative side, and possibly he's
involved in this somehow. So you would do that, You
would really do your homework before you know, just going
approach him. But you would be negligent if you did
not take that approach, if you did not actually try
to speak with Donald Trump back then now the president
(28:36):
of the United States.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
And Andrew no reporter who's ever gotten close to Donald
Trump has ever asked him. Chris's question, did the FBI
interview you? Did you cooperate with this investigation in any way?
Speaker 10 (28:52):
Absolutely? You know. I am reminded listening to the two
of you, having worked on the Moller investigation of the
president saying over and over again that he'd be happy
to meet with us, only to have him rineg and
not do that, and his unwillingness to testify at his
(29:13):
first impeachment trial at his second impeachment trial in his
criminal case. Of course he's not required to, but that
is not the standard one has for somebody who's an
elect at the office. So it's an excellent question. This
is exactly what this is. By the way, just goes
(29:34):
to the point that you would not have this interview
conducted by somebody who does not know the case unless
you're trying to neutralize the witness or get a sort
of false exculpatory statement. If you're really trying to get
at the truth, you would have experienced prosecutors and agents
who know this case do the interview so that you
(29:55):
actually get valuable information and not a whitewash.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Chris, if Donald Trump was interviewed in this investigation, would
what would the evidence of that be in the Epstein files?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
What would we find?
Speaker 8 (30:08):
So FBI agent's one of the core skills of the
FBI is to do interviews, interrogations. We talk to people
all the time. All those notes would be memorialized in
what we call an FD three to oh two. It's
just a transcript of exactly what was exchange. That would
absolutely be in the Epstein file. There's no doubt that
(30:29):
could be released immediately. And one thing I'll point out,
having interviewed and interrogated countless people over the years, people
who are innocent, generally when accused of something, are emphatic
about their innocence, and they want to have you produce
what's you know, what's suspicious? And so if it was
(30:53):
a file, you know, innocent people will show me that file,
point to me where you're saying I did something wrong.
We'll go through page by page. And innocent people tend
to get really aggressive about this. People are trying to
cover something up tend to do the opposite or sidestep
the question. And so if you look at his response
(31:14):
just the other day when asked was he told if
that his name was in the file, he tried to
sidestep it traditionally speaking, and that doesn't mean that you know,
he's guilty of something, but traditionally speaking, and that's not
how innocent people respond to such a question.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And Andrew, we now have a conclusive reporting that Donald
Trump was, of course told by Pambody that his name
appears in the Epstein files repeatedly, multiple times.
Speaker 10 (31:43):
Look, that certainly gives an explanation for the flip flop
where you have the administration saying that they're going to
make everything public and they're going to be transparent about everything,
and then the reporting is that lots of FBI agents
were pulled from otherwise valid work and important work to
(32:08):
go through these files to find every time that his
name was mentioned. And so you're left to think that
the reason for them changing their view with large political
consequences as a result of it having fomented this sort
of conspiracy theory is because his name is there. And
(32:28):
you have Donald Trump's reaction to this, which is very
much sort of a very suspicious protesting too much. And
so you know, it is really a confluence of sort
of red flags that we have in front of us.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Andrew Weisman and Christopher Oleary, thank you both very much
for your invaluable expertise on this tonight.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Really appreciate it. And coming up.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Democratic Senator Rubin Diego has tried to get a Senate
vote on releasing the Epstein files, and that was blocked
by Republicans today. He'll join us next.
Speaker 11 (33:09):
If Donald Trump really wants these files release, they'd be
out already. Instead, he's orchestrating a cover up and he
is not acting alone.
Speaker 6 (33:18):
The entire Republican.
Speaker 11 (33:19):
Party, the FBI director, the intelligence community, and the Justice
Department are backing him up to bury the truth.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Our next guests.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Democratic Senator Reuben Diego of Arizona introduced a resolution on
the Senate floor today calling for the Justice Department to
release the Epstein files. A vote on Senator Gayego's motion
was blocked by Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen of Oklahoma.
Speaker 11 (33:43):
The Senate should go on records supporting the release of
the Epstein files. Any effort to block their release is
simply continued cover up of our nation's elites. Whilst standing
here on the Senate floor demanding answers, has Republicans have
ran for the exit ended their term early, skipping town
early to avoid taking up any more discussion about Epstein
(34:06):
in the files. They didn't just punt accountability, they literally
fled Washington, d C. While everyday Americans are struggling to
afford their groceries and their healthcare. We have a president
in the White House focus I'm protecting the most powerful
men and women who prayed on children. This is who
Donald Trump really is.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Joining us now, is Democratic Senator Ruben Gueyo of Arizona
is a member of the Senate Banking Committee and the
Homeland Security Committee. Senator, thank you very much for joining
us tonight. The way this story is moving tonight, it
seems like we may have a new page from the
birthday book every day.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Is the pressure.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Building in the Senate, the way it's so obviously built
in the House, to the point where they just blew
up the place and went home.
Speaker 11 (34:55):
Not quite yet. I mean, this is why my efforts again,
this is my second effort, actually to teach try to
get the Senate to actually vote on whether or not
we should have these Fsteine files release. And what we
saw today was a new wrinkle done by the Senate
where they were trying to kind of basically do a
quick flint flam trick where they're saying, well, we want
you to vote to release the grand jury testimony, which
(35:19):
we already saw that nothing came of that, because they
know that they actually are starting to feel the pressure,
pressure from people in their districts, pressure from the public
that at this point, it just thinks and I think
what is happening right now is just a lot of
Americans that know when there's a cover up happening, They
know when the elite are using government to take care
of themselves, and they see it right now and what
(35:42):
and it's starting to put these pressure on these you know,
Republican serators that normally can be above it, but we're
going to continue to put this pressure on them because
people deserve to know the truth what has been going
on for the last eight years, where they just lying
and talking about you know, potentially you know, you dog
employees covering up for something that didn't happen. Did they
(36:03):
put miss Maxwell's jail for nothing that didn't happen? Or
is Donald Trump continuing what we know he's always done.
He's just taking care of his rich elite friends and
using the federal government now to do it.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
And the very concept of the Epstein files has expanded
since this story began, with Senator Widen, the top Democrat,
and the Sentiate Finance Committee revealing that there are four
thousand transactions that the United States Treasury has a record
of of more than a billion dollars of Jeffrey Epstein
international transactions that Senator Widen believes would be very helpful
(36:38):
in tracking how Jeffrey Epstein managed this international sex trafficking.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (36:47):
Look, this is an administration that right now is trying
to hunt down, you know, in Arizona, a woman that's
been for twenty one years, who has you know, US's
and child, a US's and husband who has started a businesiness.
But they're not willing to look into a man, Jeffrey
Epstem who was involved in international sex trafficking, both of
(37:08):
women and of johns and clients from all over the world.
And why is that? Because these are people that are
deering close friends to Donald Trump, or we're business associates,
or somehow he was involved and he's.
Speaker 6 (37:19):
Embarrassed by it.
Speaker 11 (37:20):
But all that being said, the American public deserves to know,
and let's remind people this issue would not have been
an issue if it wasn't for the Trump administration bringing.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
It to the floor.
Speaker 11 (37:30):
It was Attorney General Pam Bondi who said to us,
I have the list. It is now sitting on my
desk and then went on to the Shenanigans to basically
hide that for the next couple of weeks. So now
the American public ones know why are you lying? They
sense that there is something wrong, and they certainly sense
when government is lying to them, and they definitely feel
(37:52):
it when they're doing it to really protect the most
elite of this country.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Sarta Reuben Geege, thank you very much for joining our
discussion tonight and coming up.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Our next guest has covered the Jeffrey Epstein case for
decades and written a book about it, published a set
of questions in The New York Times that he hopes
the Epstein files can answer.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
He will join us next.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Our next guest, Barry Levine's new essay in The New
York Times is titled I covered the Epstein case for decades,
These are nine questions we actually need answered. Barry Levine
as the author of The Spider Inside the Criminal Web
of Jeffrey Epstein and Gilaine Maxwell, and he joins us now. Barry,
(38:41):
your nine questions are fantastic, And actually I'm going to
invite you right now to come back on the program
because I'd like to go through each one of them.
But I would like you, since you know the questions,
to ask what are the questions that you would have
asked if you were allowed to question Maxwell today the
(39:01):
way Donald Trump's former criminal defense lawyer.
Speaker 7 (39:04):
Did well, Lawrence, I probably would have started with the
incident that took place, the very first incident when he
took Jeffrey Epstein took her to a camp in Michigan
where he had as a boy, was a musical student.
And at that camp, they moved on a thirteen year
old girl and convinced her to come to Florida, and
(39:27):
Jeffrey Epstein subsequently attacked her, sexually abused her. And I've asked,
miss Maxwell, why didn't you just run?
Speaker 6 (39:37):
Why don't you run from this man?
Speaker 7 (39:39):
Because none of this would have ever happened.
Speaker 6 (39:40):
But what happened over the next.
Speaker 7 (39:42):
Several years was that she groomed so many victims, she
took part in their sexual abuse. And I still don't
understand why she went along with his sex trafficking when
she could have You know, she was a smart, intelligent woman,
and she could.
Speaker 6 (39:57):
Have escaped on her own. That's what I don't know, understand.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
And she's never really been questioned about this. She's been
under oath in some civil cases. That's where the perjury
charges came from.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Was in the in the in.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
The lawsuits, That's where she got in trouble. So what
do you think people need to know about I feel
silly to even ask this. Her credibility in any of
these matters, well.
Speaker 7 (40:26):
You know, I wouldn't trust her at all unless she
could coroborate information. Obviously, her agenda is to either get
a pardon from President Trump or to have her sentence
have some years taken off. She's never told the truth.
She went through about a half a dozen civil lawsuits.
She lost a defamation case against the chief accuser of
(40:48):
Virginia Giuffrey, who said lead passed on this past April.
She has no credibility as far as I'm concerned. However,
there has been much speculation that she was holding onto materials,
possibly videotapes, possibly documents. Is this something that she is
now going to turn over to the authorities. We don't know,
(41:08):
but certainly everything she says has to be cooperated with
evidence because you know, I think she's a liar, she's
a predator, and she just abused and groomed these victims
for so many years.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
If the Epstein files were to come out, where would
you go first?
Speaker 1 (41:28):
What are the first things you'd try to look at?
Speaker 7 (41:31):
Well, the hard evidence, Lauren, certainly you know there were
at least on the evidence list. We know of forty computers,
we know of seventy CDs, we know of the fact
that the authorities had put Maxwell under some type of
phone wire tap. So let's look at that very hard
evidence in black and white and see what's there. Let's
(41:53):
go down that financial trail, as you mentioned, Senator White
and Jeffrey Epstein moved money through Russian banks, but he
had fixers, He had international fixers to send him girls
to his island in the Virgin Islands.
Speaker 6 (42:06):
Let's go after those men.
Speaker 7 (42:08):
If there's documented information, let's get those Virgin Island records.
The Attorney General there, Denise George, did a great job
in terms of her initial investigation, but it needs to
be expanded and it needs the help of the FBI.
And then, of course let's look at the autopsy report
of Jeffrey Epstein's death. We've never seen that. We've never
seen the report in terms of the investigation into his death.
(42:33):
Was there DNA on the bit sheet that he used.
These are all things that we have to look into.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Berry Levine, I got to need you're back here when
I get back from vacation. Everyone should read his ed
piece of The New York Times about the questions he
has in the Epstein case. Berry Levine, thank you very
much for joining us tonight.
Speaker 6 (42:51):
Thank you, Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
We'll be right back. That is tonight's last word. I'm
going to take one week of vacation next week. Then
I will be right back here at this desk, saying
Hi Rachel when I get back
The Last Word with Lawrence o'donald starts right now. Hey Lawrence, Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Jen, I want to prepare you for something next week,
and that is that I am going to be on
vacation next Oh no.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yeah, and so you won't be.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Saying hi to me, but you will have some very
able people here who will be getting this hour through
the week. And I'm telling you, Jen, nothing nothing can
get me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Back here next week. Absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I don't care if somebody hand delivers me the Epstein
Birthday Book.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I'm nothing. Nothing's going to get me back here.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Well, I'm going to spread a rumor that you're writing
the next reboot of The West Wing.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Don't do that. Don't do that.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I'm going to do a segment each day on some
ideas for episodes, and we'll.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Take they take that very seriously. Don't do that. Don't
do that.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Sorry to control myself.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Okay, Thanks Jen, I'll see you week after next. Have
a good vacation, Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Well tonight, the Birthday Book is coming out, one page
at a time.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
That is the breaking news of the night.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Twenty four hours after we broke the news on this
program last night that a book of birthday letters to
Jeffrey Epstein on his fiftieth birthday is in the possession
of the Epstein estate in Florida. Other news organizations have
credit a reporting and been following up on it and
adding significantly to that reporting tonight. The latest reporting is
(01:32):
from the New York Times and it includes the image
of the first page of the Birthday Book. It is
a handwritten letter from Jeffrey Epstein's convicted co conspirator in
sex trafficking, Glaine Maxwell, who assembled the book with the
help of many of Jeffrey Epstein's rape victims who Jeffrey
(01:55):
Epstein and Ghlaine Maxwell raped and they were in middle
school and high school. We learned last night on this
program from the lawyer representing those victims that they were
told by Glainne Maxwell to help her actually assemble the
Birthday Book. And here is Elaine Maxwell's birthday note. The
(02:19):
very first page of the Birthday Book was the birthday
note from Elaine Maxwell to Jeffrey Epstein. Here it is
says Jeffrey, the idea behind this book was simply to
gather stories and old photographs to jog your memory about
places and people and different events. Some of the letters
(02:41):
will definitely achieve their intended goal. Some well, you will
have to read them to see for yourself. I know
you will enjoy looking through the book, and I hope
you will derive as much pleasure looking through it as
I did putting it together.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
For you.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Happy Happy Birthday, Love Gilen. Both the New York Times
and The Wall Street Journal and reporting tonight that Donald
Trump's name appears on the list of contributors to the
Birthday Book. The journal reports that contributes to the Birthday
Book Quote were grouped under categories such as science, Brooklyn,
and family. The journal says that Donald Trump and Bill
(03:19):
Clinton were listed on the friends group, which also included
Jeffrey Epstein's criminal defense lawyer, Alan Dershowitz. The New York
Times is also reporting tonight on another handwritten note to
Jeffrey Epstein by Donald Trump says to Jeff you are
the greatest, reads an inscription and a copy of mister
(03:42):
Trump's book Trump the art of the Comeback that belonged
to mister Epstein. And there it is you see it,
signed Donald. It's dated October nineteen ninety seven, the month
the book came up. That's signature that you just saw
be compared by handwriting experts to the Donald signature, that
(04:04):
one word signature that reportedly appears in the description of
the letter bearing Donald Trump's name in the Epstein birthday book,
as was first reported by The Wall Street Journal. Unlike
the Wall Street Journal's report on the Trump letter, the
Bill Clinton letter contains no sexual innuendo. The Journal describes
(04:25):
the Clinton page this way, a single paragraph in Clinton's
distinctive scrawl, saying, It's reassuring, isn't it to have lasted
as long across all the years of learning and knowing,
adventures and illegible word and also to have your childlike curiosity,
(04:46):
the drive to make a difference, and the solace of
friends land stuff. Nothing sexually suggestive in the Clinton birthday
message to Jeffrey Epstein, something that could have been written
by Clinton staff or Bill Clinton himself, The Wall Street
Journal reports. A spokesman for Clinton declined to comment on
(05:07):
the birthday message, which was reviewed by the journal. He
referred to the journal the Journal to a previous statement
that the former president had cut off ties more than
a decade before Epstein was arrested in twenty nineteen, and
didn't know about Epstein's alleged crimes. That is Bill Clinton
essentially validating the reporting that that is his letter. Bill
(05:30):
Clinton is not threatening to sue the Wall Street Journal
about the birthday book. He's not saying that's not my letter.
Alan Dershowitz is not threatening to sue the Wall Street
Journal about their reporting on the birthday Book, which includes
a letter from Alan Dershowitz to the child rapist. To
Alan Dershowitz defended in the first criminal cases against Jeffrey Epstein.
(05:51):
The Journal reports the letter from Dershowitz, who represented Epstein
in the first criminal case in the two thousands, included
a mock up of a Vanity Unfair magazine cover with
mock headlines It's been a long time, and I don't
recall the content of what I may have written, Dershowitz said.
So that's Alan Dershowitz confirming tonight that he contributed to
(06:15):
the birthday Book. Alan Dershwitz confirming the existence of the
Birthday Book.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Of all the.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
People mentioned in the Wall Street Journal reporting who contributed
to the birthday Book, including fashion designer Vera Wang, none
of them claim that they did not contribute to the
birthday book. Donald Trump is the only one making that claim,
and it's not working. And because Donald Trump knows it's
not working, he's been trying desperately to create other news stories,
(06:41):
including the childishly idiotic notion that President Barack Obama committed treason.
Nothing will come of any of that nonsense, and it
is unworthy of diverting our attention from what Donald Trump
wants us to stop talking about, and that is his
friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Because no one can humiliate Donald Trump better than Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
He did it once again today in another desperate and
failed attempt to take our attention away from Donald Trump's
fifteen year relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and that birthday book,
a period about which Jeffrey Epstein has said in a
tape recorded interview, I was Donald's closest friend for ten years.
FOX poll shows that eighty percent of registered voters are
(07:22):
following the Epstein case. Only thirteen percent of registered voters
believe the Trump administration has been open and transparent about
the Epstein case. Sixty seven percent disagree, including sixty percent
of Republicans and fifty six percent of Mega supporters. In
order to try to distract from how close he was
(07:42):
to Jeffrey Epstein. Donald Trump chose to stand close to
another white man today, although when they were standing together,
only one of them looked white because one of them
was covered in a badly applied orange makeup product. The
man with the orange makeup is the most self obsessed
human being on planet Earth, and he has full access
(08:03):
to mirrors all the time, and that means he has
seen his face without the orange makeup and with the
orange makeup, and he's decided that he looks better with it,
which leaves you wondering just how much older than Jerome
Powell would Donald Trump look if he wasn't covered in
orange makeup. Donald Trump is seventy nine years old. Jerome
(08:24):
Powell is seven years younger and immeasurably more intelligent than
Donald Trump. And that was on displayed today when Donald Trump,
in his failed attempt to deferred our attention from his
relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, went to the Federal Reserve headquarters,
which is being remodeled, and thought he would shame Jerome
Powell because the construction project was over budget. According to
(08:47):
a piece of paper given to Donald Trump by the
most incompetent White House staff in history, a piece of
paper that took Jerome Powell seconds to read and seconds
more to explain to Donald Trump how his piece of
paper is.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
It was the perfect lesson and.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Why Donald Trump normally avoids confronting anyone who he knows
is much much smarter than he is.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
So we're taking a look, and it looks like it's.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
About three point one billion. Went up a little bit
or a lot.
Speaker 7 (09:22):
So the two point seven is now three point one.
Speaker 6 (09:27):
Yeah, it just came out.
Speaker 8 (09:29):
Yeah, I haven't heard that from anybody to feed.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I just came.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
I knows about three point one as well. This game
from us.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yes, I don't know who does that.
Speaker 6 (09:47):
You're including the Martin renovation. You just added retire capital. Yeah,
you just you just added in the third buildings.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
What that is.
Speaker 8 (09:53):
That's a third building.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
It's a building that's being built.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
It's been it was built five years ago.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
We finished Martin five years ago.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Donald Trump claims to be the real estate guy. Jerome
Powell doesn't claim to be the real estate guy. But
jer Own Powell apparently did very well in arithmetic in
elementary school. By the time jer Own Powell was in
the third grade, he could have done what you just
saw him do to Donald Trump. Donald Trump was adding
in the cost of a third building that was built
(10:22):
five years ago, and Jerome Powell handed Donald Trump a
kind of humiliation no present before him has ever suffered.
And so that Trump video humiliation will now be seen
by millions and millions and millions of viewers just over.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
The next twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
It's very likely going to be on Stephen Colbert's show
and other late night shows.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
They'll be running that video. Then it'll be running on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And yes, there's something especially delicious about a clown being
clowned like that, But what's important about it is that
that was the very best move Donald Trump thought he
had to day to try to turn news coverage away
from the birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein that bears Donald
(11:07):
Trump's name and what we now know to be several
copies of the birthday book. Tonight, the Wall Street Journal
is reporting this the letter bearing Trump's signature, which had
the outline of a naked woman, was one of the
more memorable pages, according to the people involved in putting
the album together. Last night on this program, Bradley Edwards
(11:31):
told us who helped Julane Maxwell put.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That book together.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
You said that some of your clients have specific knowledge
of that birthday book.
Speaker 6 (11:45):
Sure, yes, more than one, multiple of them.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And what is that knowledge?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
They saw it or they were around him when he
was fifty years old? Were they present at the at
his birthday, his fiftieth birthday?
Speaker 6 (11:57):
I don't know they answer that last question.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
You know that they were involved in the assembly of
the book. Several of them. They were told by Gillen
to assist in putting.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
The book together.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Others have seen the book post birthday and after it
was assembled.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Some of Jeffrey Epstein's victims were actually used by Elaine
Maxwell to assemble that birthday book, to actually put those
letters together in that book.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
You have to remember that Jeffrey Epstein was abusing and
exploiting young women and children every day of his life.
So anybody that's around for any major events such as
the assembly of his fiftieth birthday book, they're going to
have to be involved in assembling or playing their part
whatever they were directed to do with respect to that book.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Well Street Journal reported at seven oh eight pm tonight,
Brad Edwards, a lawyer who has represented more than two
hundred of Epstein's victims, said on MSNBC Wednesday evening that
he has multiple clients who remember the birthday book.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
The existence of the book as an absolute fact.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Edwards said, several digital copies of the album have been
created pages have been reviewed by Justice Department officials who
investigated Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell years ago. According to people
familiar with the matter, the album is part of Epstein's estate.
Several copies means that the likelihood of the birthday Book
(13:36):
becoming public is increasing exponentially. MSNBC's legal correspondent Lisa Ruben,
a frequent and valuable guest on this program, asked Elaine
Maxwell's lawyer tonight does Maxwell herself have the book? And
Maxwell's lawyer declined to comment. But today Elaine Maxwell's criminal
(13:56):
defense lawyer spent most of his day hanging with Donald
Trump's criminal defense lawyer. Todd Blanche's last job before becoming
the number two at the Justice Department as the Deputy
Attorney General, was serving as Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer
in his criminal the criminal cases that Donald Trump was
facing last year, Todd Blanche lost the one case that
(14:19):
went to trial, and he still delighted in his failing
final argument to the jury in which he called the
prosecution witness Michael Cohen, Donald Trump's former lawyer, the greatest
liar of all time. Here is criminal defense lawyer Todd
Blanche after losing that trial last year, talking about that
trial with Glenne, Maxwell's criminal defense lawyer who Todd Blanche
(14:43):
spent the day with today.
Speaker 6 (14:46):
Last thing about the closing.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
So so you call them the MVP of liars. I
love the gloat line. Of course you loved it because you.
Speaker 9 (14:53):
Gave it to me, David say to the world, so genius.
In all serious as to you, I know a lot
of people that have worked with you. I know a
lot of people who know you very well. I now
consider you a friend and someone who I know pretty well.
You are by far the best out there, and I'll
always say yes to this podcast.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Those two friends met today in what is the first
time in Justice Department in history that a Deputy Attorney
General seized a case away from the prosecutor handling the
case after firing that prosecutor last week Marine Comi and
then taking it upon himself to go have a meeting
with a convicted sex trafficker who was also charged with perjury.
(15:39):
There is absolutely no legitimate basis for such a meeting
with the Deputy Attorney general, former criminal defense lawyer for
Donald Trump, who gave every appearance today of still functioning
as in effect, Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer. Could Todd
Blanche have any other purpose in talking to Delayine Maxwell
than trying to get her to say something positive about
(16:03):
his client, Donald Trump. Todd Blanche tweeted today today I
met with Elaine Maxwell and I will continue my interview
of her tomorrow. The Department of Justice will share additional
information about what we learned at the appropriate time. Elaine Maxwell,
as a lawyer, said this after the strangest meeting a
(16:25):
criminal defense lawyer has ever had with a Deputy Attorney
General of the United States.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
Good as newer villain. Great, come on overland, Hi, everybody,
Nice to see it you all.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
We had a very productive day today with the Deputy
Attorney General, Todd Blanche and Glenn Maxwell. First, we want
to thank the Deputy Attorney General for being so professional
with all of us and for meeting with us. He
took a full day and asked a lot of questions,
(17:11):
and Miss Maxwell answered every single question. She never stopped,
she never invoked a privilege she never declined to answer.
She answered all the questions truthfully, honestly, and to the
best of her ability. And that's all the comment we're
going to have today about the meeting.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
And so tonight the victims of Jeffrey Epstein, who were
in middle school and high school when Jeffrey Epstein and
Kilaine Maxwell raped them together, have more to fear tonight
from Elaine Maxwell thanks to Donald Trump. Donald Trump's former
criminal defense lawyer offered Gilaine Maxwell what exactly what to
(17:51):
answer his questions today. Kilaine Maxwell, who never testified in
her own defense in her criminal trial, knowing she was
facing a possible twenty years in prison, suddenly decided today
that she would talk to a criminal prosecutor for the
first time in her life. She could have done that
when she and Jeffrey Epstein were both charged for those crimes,
(18:12):
but she didn't.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
She fled.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
She was hiding out in New Hampshire when she was
tracked down by federal agents and apprehended.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And even though.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
She was facing a federal criminal trial in which she knew,
there wasn't one word of testimony that she could give
to that jury under oath that wouldn't make the case
against her even worse.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
That's what she knew.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
That's why criminal defendants like Elaine Maxwell don't testify. If
Glene Maxwell thought for a second that she could have
helped herself with the jury with even one juror by testifying,
she would have testified. But she knew, and her criminal
defense attorney knew that the testimony against Gilaine Maxwell by
her victims who she personally raped along with Jeffrey Epstein.
(19:00):
She didn't just lure them into being raped by Jeffrey Epstein.
She joined Jeffrey Epstein in the room and joined personally
in raping those girls. She knew that that testimony against
her in court was something she could not possibly overcome,
and so she didn't say a word. She decided there's
(19:21):
nothing that she could say under oath to counter that testimony.
But today, according to her lawyer, she answered every question.
She never stopped, she never invoked privilege. What did Todd
Blanche offer her to make her suddenly decide she was
safe with Donald Trump's former criminal defense attorney.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Why did Elaine.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Maxwell decide today that she could tell Donald Trump's former
criminal defense attorney anything and it couldn't possibly get her
in more trouble. Here's what Bradley Edwards, the lawyer for
hundreds of Epstein and Maxwell victims, told us last night.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
One thing that has really alarmed our clients, particularly today
is the information that now Gilan Maxwell's being visited in
jail and that she is somehow being given some credibility
and a platform on this particular topic.
Speaker 6 (20:21):
I think what people are forgetting is.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
That Gilln Maxwell wasn't only indicted on sex trafficking charges.
Giln Maxwell because of testimony she gave on multiple occasions
in the civil cases where we suit her, she provided
testimony and as a consequence of false testimony, she was
indicted on two perjury counts on this particular topic. So
we're at we're going to go and ask somebody to
(20:46):
tell the truth. Who was indicted on perjury charges related
to this particular topic. Now, does she have information that
could potentially help yes, will she be truthful about it?
Speaker 6 (20:56):
Who knows.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
But whoever is going to be the questioner, whoever's going
to be the entreator, must know more than just a
rudimentary understanding of the case. You have to have seen
her other deposition transcripts to know what she's said so
that you're going to keep her in line. You have
to know her testimony from her criminal trial to keep
her in line, and you have to understand the.
Speaker 6 (21:15):
Case sending somebody there that knows nothing.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
She's going to say whatever she wants to say, and
what's her incentive is her incentive because she's going to
get a deal. I have many clients who say, look,
President Trump and Galyn Maxwell were good friends back then?
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Is he going to commute her? Is he going to
pardon her?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
And I have said to them, look, I know that
you feel like an afterthought right now.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
I know that you feel like you don't matter.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
For him to do that would be he thought about
you and he decided you don't do not matter.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Good friends back then. Donald Trump and Gilen Maxwell were
good friends, and it looks like Donald Trump's former criminal
defense lawyer in Gilenn Maxwell's criminal defense lawyer, are trying
to make them good friends once again. Andrew Weisman will
join us after the spring.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
In the Justice.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Department filing in the Glainne Maxwell case in twenty twenty,
the Justice Department then said the defendant's willingness to brazenly
lie under oath about her conduct, including some of the
conduct charged in the indictment, strongly suggests her true motive
has been and remains to avoid being held accountable for
(22:34):
her crimes. Join US now is Andrew Weisman, former FBI
General Counsel and former chief of the Criminal Division in
Eastern District of New York.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Also with US.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Christopher Leary, former Assistant Special Agent in charge of New
York Joint Terrorism Task Force, also served as chief of
the FBI counter Terrorism Fly Team. They're both MSNBC analysts.
And Andrew to that point that I just read Justice
Department in twenty twenty saying, talking about Juliane Maxwell's willingness
(23:03):
to brazenly lie under oath, how would that work today.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
In a room with Todd Blanche.
Speaker 10 (23:15):
This is why the comment from your guest yesterday was
so on point. If you're going to try to get
truthful information from her at this very late date, you
need to have the team, the FBI agents, the prosecutors
(23:36):
who investigated this, who know chapter and verse about what
she has said, what she has done, what all of
the other witnesses say. Otherwise, what really appears to be
is an effort to have Glenn Maxwell simply exonerate Donald Trump,
regardless of whether it is truthful or not. That is
(24:00):
obviously her motive right now is to get a benefit,
and that could be up to an including, as you mentioned,
a full pardon. And the only way that you can
really assure that she was telling the truth is to
have people who really know the evidence. And we've talked
about this, which is that is not the Deputy Attorney
(24:21):
General of the United States, who is new to the
case and doesn't have career people there at all. So
it's just a highly, highly suspicious circumstance.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And Andrew, this is the same Trump Justice Apartment that
just said a few weeks ago that there's absolutely nothing
more in the Epstein case, that they've examined all of
the Epstein files and there's nothing else to pursue, there's
nothing else to investigate, there's nothing else to report on.
That was the Pambondi official public report about the Epstein files.
Speaker 10 (24:57):
Well, I have to say, personally, I just don't believe
that it is something if you heard that from the
career people who know this case inside out, But are
we really supposed to believe and I don't that the
only two people who participated in this are Jeffrey Epstein
and Glene Maxwell, that there were no other people who
(25:20):
participated at all. And I think one sort of read
herring here is this idea that there's no quote unquote
client list, whether it's you know, there's a piece of
paper that says client list at the top of it.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
It seems impossible.
Speaker 10 (25:37):
To think that the FBI on this case and the
prosecutors on this case didn't put together a list of
everyone who they thought was complicit with mister Epstein and
with ms Maxwell, whether you call it a client list
or not. And so I think there's just a lot
more to come out, and I don't think we're being
(25:58):
told the truth about what's happened.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Christopher Leary, if you were working a case like this
with the FBI, and you've worked in the New York
office where a lot of this work was done, what
kind of lists would you expect to find in the
Epstein files.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
Well, you know, I think Andrew hits on the point,
maybe there's not a list that you know Jeffrey Epstein
was keeping or Glenne Maxwell was keeping. However, any investigator,
any agent that's working in this case is going to
identify the close associates of this subject of the investigation
and then start determining what's the nature of that relationship
(26:36):
when where they co located in a place where criminal
activity was happening, and so those individuals might have been
there innocently, but you would still want to dig deeper.
So one thing that jumps out at me, and I
was discussing this with the colleague earlier, is I would
like to know was the president interviewed as part of
this investigation? And I don't think that's been answered yet.
(26:59):
I don't think it's really been asked by that many people.
It would be unusual for the types of investigations that
I worked, or that my fellow agents and investigators worked,
that we would not have tried to approach that close
associate and see if they were willing to cooperate. And
if they weren't, then it begs the question why, And
(27:21):
I don't think we've seen that yet. Is it unusual
that the president's name would be found in these files? No,
if he was a close associate, it would be unusual
if there wasn't further investigation.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
So I asked you.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
This in an office the other day here in the
building about you know, if you were working this case
in the New York office the FBI and you came
across the New York magazine profile of Donald Trump saying,
I've known him for fifteen years. He's a terrific guy.
He likes a beautiful women, especially on.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
The younger side.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
If you read that article, would your to do list
include let's go talk to Donald Trump?
Speaker 8 (27:59):
It would be in the first Which thing I think
myself or other agents would do is try to find
out more about him, try to find out is the
approachable how do we go about this? So what I
would understand the person I want to go talk to
and set the conditions for trying to do that in
the best way.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Will he be a cooperator?
Speaker 8 (28:14):
Or is he possibly somebody that we should be looking at,
you know, more on the investigative side, and possibly he's
involved in this somehow. So you would do that, You
would really do your homework before you know, just going
approach him. But you would be negligent if you did
not take that approach, if you did not actually try
to speak with Donald Trump back then now the president
(28:36):
of the United States.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
And Andrew no reporter who's ever gotten close to Donald
Trump has ever asked him. Chris's question, did the FBI
interview you? Did you cooperate with this investigation in any way?
Speaker 10 (28:52):
Absolutely? You know. I am reminded listening to the two
of you, having worked on the Moller investigation of the
president saying over and over again that he'd be happy
to meet with us, only to have him rineg and
not do that, and his unwillingness to testify at his
(29:13):
first impeachment trial at his second impeachment trial in his
criminal case. Of course he's not required to, but that
is not the standard one has for somebody who's an
elect at the office. So it's an excellent question. This
is exactly what this is. By the way, just goes
(29:34):
to the point that you would not have this interview
conducted by somebody who does not know the case unless
you're trying to neutralize the witness or get a sort
of false exculpatory statement. If you're really trying to get
at the truth, you would have experienced prosecutors and agents
who know this case do the interview so that you
(29:55):
actually get valuable information and not a whitewash.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Chris, if Donald Trump was interviewed in this investigation, would
what would the evidence of that be in the Epstein files?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
What would we find?
Speaker 8 (30:08):
So FBI agent's one of the core skills of the
FBI is to do interviews, interrogations. We talk to people
all the time. All those notes would be memorialized in
what we call an FD three to oh two. It's
just a transcript of exactly what was exchange. That would
absolutely be in the Epstein file. There's no doubt that
(30:29):
could be released immediately. And one thing I'll point out,
having interviewed and interrogated countless people over the years, people
who are innocent, generally when accused of something, are emphatic
about their innocence, and they want to have you produce
what's you know, what's suspicious? And so if it was
(30:53):
a file, you know, innocent people will show me that file,
point to me where you're saying I did something wrong.
We'll go through page by page. And innocent people tend
to get really aggressive about this. People are trying to
cover something up tend to do the opposite or sidestep
the question. And so if you look at his response
(31:14):
just the other day when asked was he told if
that his name was in the file, he tried to
sidestep it traditionally speaking, and that doesn't mean that you know,
he's guilty of something, but traditionally speaking, and that's not
how innocent people respond to such a question.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And Andrew, we now have a conclusive reporting that Donald
Trump was, of course told by Pambody that his name
appears in the Epstein files repeatedly, multiple times.
Speaker 10 (31:43):
Look, that certainly gives an explanation for the flip flop
where you have the administration saying that they're going to
make everything public and they're going to be transparent about everything,
and then the reporting is that lots of FBI agents
were pulled from otherwise valid work and important work to
(32:08):
go through these files to find every time that his
name was mentioned. And so you're left to think that
the reason for them changing their view with large political
consequences as a result of it having fomented this sort
of conspiracy theory is because his name is there. And
(32:28):
you have Donald Trump's reaction to this, which is very
much sort of a very suspicious protesting too much. And
so you know, it is really a confluence of sort
of red flags that we have in front of us.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Andrew Weisman and Christopher Oleary, thank you both very much
for your invaluable expertise on this tonight.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Really appreciate it. And coming up.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Democratic Senator Rubin Diego has tried to get a Senate
vote on releasing the Epstein files, and that was blocked
by Republicans today. He'll join us next.
Speaker 11 (33:09):
If Donald Trump really wants these files release, they'd be
out already. Instead, he's orchestrating a cover up and he
is not acting alone.
Speaker 6 (33:18):
The entire Republican.
Speaker 11 (33:19):
Party, the FBI director, the intelligence community, and the Justice
Department are backing him up to bury the truth.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Our next guests.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Democratic Senator Reuben Diego of Arizona introduced a resolution on
the Senate floor today calling for the Justice Department to
release the Epstein files. A vote on Senator Gayego's motion
was blocked by Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen of Oklahoma.
Speaker 11 (33:43):
The Senate should go on records supporting the release of
the Epstein files. Any effort to block their release is
simply continued cover up of our nation's elites. Whilst standing
here on the Senate floor demanding answers, has Republicans have
ran for the exit ended their term early, skipping town
early to avoid taking up any more discussion about Epstein
(34:06):
in the files. They didn't just punt accountability, they literally
fled Washington, d C. While everyday Americans are struggling to
afford their groceries and their healthcare. We have a president
in the White House focus I'm protecting the most powerful
men and women who prayed on children. This is who
Donald Trump really is.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Joining us now, is Democratic Senator Ruben Gueyo of Arizona
is a member of the Senate Banking Committee and the
Homeland Security Committee. Senator, thank you very much for joining
us tonight. The way this story is moving tonight, it
seems like we may have a new page from the
birthday book every day.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Is the pressure.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Building in the Senate, the way it's so obviously built
in the House, to the point where they just blew
up the place and went home.
Speaker 11 (34:55):
Not quite yet. I mean, this is why my efforts again,
this is my second effort, actually to teach try to
get the Senate to actually vote on whether or not
we should have these Fsteine files release. And what we
saw today was a new wrinkle done by the Senate
where they were trying to kind of basically do a
quick flint flam trick where they're saying, well, we want
you to vote to release the grand jury testimony, which
(35:19):
we already saw that nothing came of that, because they
know that they actually are starting to feel the pressure,
pressure from people in their districts, pressure from the public
that at this point, it just thinks and I think
what is happening right now is just a lot of
Americans that know when there's a cover up happening, They
know when the elite are using government to take care
of themselves, and they see it right now and what
(35:42):
and it's starting to put these pressure on these you know,
Republican serators that normally can be above it, but we're
going to continue to put this pressure on them because
people deserve to know the truth what has been going
on for the last eight years, where they just lying
and talking about you know, potentially you know, you dog
employees covering up for something that didn't happen. Did they
(36:03):
put miss Maxwell's jail for nothing that didn't happen? Or
is Donald Trump continuing what we know he's always done.
He's just taking care of his rich elite friends and
using the federal government now to do it.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
And the very concept of the Epstein files has expanded
since this story began, with Senator Widen, the top Democrat,
and the Sentiate Finance Committee revealing that there are four
thousand transactions that the United States Treasury has a record
of of more than a billion dollars of Jeffrey Epstein
international transactions that Senator Widen believes would be very helpful
(36:38):
in tracking how Jeffrey Epstein managed this international sex trafficking.
Speaker 7 (36:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (36:47):
Look, this is an administration that right now is trying
to hunt down, you know, in Arizona, a woman that's
been for twenty one years, who has you know, US's
and child, a US's and husband who has started a businesiness.
But they're not willing to look into a man, Jeffrey
Epstem who was involved in international sex trafficking, both of
(37:08):
women and of johns and clients from all over the world.
And why is that? Because these are people that are
deering close friends to Donald Trump, or we're business associates,
or somehow he was involved and he's.
Speaker 6 (37:19):
Embarrassed by it.
Speaker 11 (37:20):
But all that being said, the American public deserves to know,
and let's remind people this issue would not have been
an issue if it wasn't for the Trump administration bringing.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
It to the floor.
Speaker 11 (37:30):
It was Attorney General Pam Bondi who said to us,
I have the list. It is now sitting on my
desk and then went on to the Shenanigans to basically
hide that for the next couple of weeks. So now
the American public ones know why are you lying? They
sense that there is something wrong, and they certainly sense
when government is lying to them, and they definitely feel
(37:52):
it when they're doing it to really protect the most
elite of this country.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Sarta Reuben Geege, thank you very much for joining our
discussion tonight and coming up.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Our next guest has covered the Jeffrey Epstein case for
decades and written a book about it, published a set
of questions in The New York Times that he hopes
the Epstein files can answer.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
He will join us next.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Our next guest, Barry Levine's new essay in The New
York Times is titled I covered the Epstein case for decades,
These are nine questions we actually need answered. Barry Levine
as the author of The Spider Inside the Criminal Web
of Jeffrey Epstein and Gilaine Maxwell, and he joins us now. Barry,
(38:41):
your nine questions are fantastic, And actually I'm going to
invite you right now to come back on the program
because I'd like to go through each one of them.
But I would like you, since you know the questions,
to ask what are the questions that you would have
asked if you were allowed to question Maxwell today the
(39:01):
way Donald Trump's former criminal defense lawyer.
Speaker 7 (39:04):
Did well, Lawrence, I probably would have started with the
incident that took place, the very first incident when he
took Jeffrey Epstein took her to a camp in Michigan
where he had as a boy, was a musical student.
And at that camp, they moved on a thirteen year
old girl and convinced her to come to Florida, and
(39:27):
Jeffrey Epstein subsequently attacked her, sexually abused her. And I've asked,
miss Maxwell, why didn't you just run?
Speaker 6 (39:37):
Why don't you run from this man?
Speaker 7 (39:39):
Because none of this would have ever happened.
Speaker 6 (39:40):
But what happened over the next.
Speaker 7 (39:42):
Several years was that she groomed so many victims, she
took part in their sexual abuse. And I still don't
understand why she went along with his sex trafficking when
she could have You know, she was a smart, intelligent woman,
and she could.
Speaker 6 (39:57):
Have escaped on her own. That's what I don't know, understand.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
And she's never really been questioned about this. She's been
under oath in some civil cases. That's where the perjury
charges came from.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Was in the in the in.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
The lawsuits, That's where she got in trouble. So what
do you think people need to know about I feel
silly to even ask this. Her credibility in any of
these matters, well.
Speaker 7 (40:26):
You know, I wouldn't trust her at all unless she
could coroborate information. Obviously, her agenda is to either get
a pardon from President Trump or to have her sentence
have some years taken off. She's never told the truth.
She went through about a half a dozen civil lawsuits.
She lost a defamation case against the chief accuser of
(40:48):
Virginia Giuffrey, who said lead passed on this past April.
She has no credibility as far as I'm concerned. However,
there has been much speculation that she was holding onto materials,
possibly videotapes, possibly documents. Is this something that she is
now going to turn over to the authorities. We don't know,
(41:08):
but certainly everything she says has to be cooperated with
evidence because you know, I think she's a liar, she's
a predator, and she just abused and groomed these victims
for so many years.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
If the Epstein files were to come out, where would
you go first?
Speaker 1 (41:28):
What are the first things you'd try to look at?
Speaker 7 (41:31):
Well, the hard evidence, Lauren, certainly you know there were
at least on the evidence list. We know of forty computers,
we know of seventy CDs, we know of the fact
that the authorities had put Maxwell under some type of
phone wire tap. So let's look at that very hard
evidence in black and white and see what's there. Let's
(41:53):
go down that financial trail, as you mentioned, Senator White
and Jeffrey Epstein moved money through Russian banks, but he
had fixers, He had international fixers to send him girls
to his island in the Virgin Islands.
Speaker 6 (42:06):
Let's go after those men.
Speaker 7 (42:08):
If there's documented information, let's get those Virgin Island records.
The Attorney General there, Denise George, did a great job
in terms of her initial investigation, but it needs to
be expanded and it needs the help of the FBI.
And then, of course let's look at the autopsy report
of Jeffrey Epstein's death. We've never seen that. We've never
seen the report in terms of the investigation into his death.
(42:33):
Was there DNA on the bit sheet that he used.
These are all things that we have to look into.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Berry Levine, I got to need you're back here when
I get back from vacation. Everyone should read his ed
piece of The New York Times about the questions he
has in the Epstein case. Berry Levine, thank you very
much for joining us tonight.
Speaker 6 (42:51):
Thank you, Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
We'll be right back. That is tonight's last word. I'm
going to take one week of vacation next week. Then
I will be right back here at this desk, saying
Hi Rachel when I get back
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