April 28, 2025 • 41 mins
The guest host for today's show is Brad Bannon. Brad runs Bannon Communications Research, a polling, message development and media firm which helps labor unions, progressive issue groups and Democratic candidates win public affairs and political campaigns. His show, 'Deadline D.C. with Brad Bannon,' airs every Monday from 3-4pm ET.
Brad is joined by Amie Parnes, Senior Correspondent at 'The Hill,' and Jonathan Allen, Senior National Politics Reporter for NBC News.
They discuss their newest #1 New York Times best-seller, "Fight: Inside the Wildest Battle for the White House."
"The authors of the #1 New York Times bestseller 'Shattered' provide a revelatory, inside look at the Biden, Harris, and Trump camps during the 2024 battle for the White House, arguably the most consequential contest in American history."
Brad also speaks with Jon and Amie about their evaluation of Trump's first 100 days of his second term. They also discuss the future presidential prospects of Kamala Harris, and who else might be a viable Democratic candidate for President in 2028.
Amie and Jon's book is available for purchase here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/fight-Inside-the-wildest-battle-for-the-white-house-jonathan-allen/22252142?ean=9780063438644&next=t
Brad writes a political column every Sunday for 'The Hill.'
He's on the National Journal's panel of political insiders and is a national political analyst for WGN TV and Radio in Chicago and KNX Radio in Los Angeles. You can read Brad's columns at www.MuckRack.com/Brad-Bannon. His handle on BlueSky is @bradbannon.bsky.social.
Brad is joined by Amie Parnes, Senior Correspondent at 'The Hill,' and Jonathan Allen, Senior National Politics Reporter for NBC News.
They discuss their newest #1 New York Times best-seller, "Fight: Inside the Wildest Battle for the White House."
"The authors of the #1 New York Times bestseller 'Shattered' provide a revelatory, inside look at the Biden, Harris, and Trump camps during the 2024 battle for the White House, arguably the most consequential contest in American history."
Brad also speaks with Jon and Amie about their evaluation of Trump's first 100 days of his second term. They also discuss the future presidential prospects of Kamala Harris, and who else might be a viable Democratic candidate for President in 2028.
Amie and Jon's book is available for purchase here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/fight-Inside-the-wildest-battle-for-the-white-house-jonathan-allen/22252142?ean=9780063438644&next=t
Brad writes a political column every Sunday for 'The Hill.'
He's on the National Journal's panel of political insiders and is a national political analyst for WGN TV and Radio in Chicago and KNX Radio in Los Angeles. You can read Brad's columns at www.MuckRack.com/Brad-Bannon. His handle on BlueSky is @bradbannon.bsky.social.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Leslie Marshall show a true democracy in talk radio of
for and by you the people. Live from our nation's capital.
(00:33):
It's Deadline DC with Brad Bannon. Welcome the Deadline d
C with Brad Bannon. I'm Brad Bannon. I'm a national
democratic and progressive strategist, a political analyst for news radio
KNX in Los Angeles, and a weekly contributed to the
(00:54):
Hill in Washington, d C. If you want to read
get my take on Donald Trump's imperial presidency, you can
read my contributions in the Hill at muckrack dot com.
Front Slash Brad Bannon mondays on Deadline DC, I talked
to the people and to the players behind the politics
(01:16):
and policies that drive our gate nation forward or at
least keep it from going backwards during Trump two point zero.
This Monday, we have a great show. We have two
guests for the prison one are our guests are the
author the authors of Flight Inside the Wildest Wildness Battle
(01:39):
for the White House. We have Jonathan Allen, who is
a senior national politics reporter for NBC News and Amy Parnis,
senior political correspondent to the Hill. Thanks both of you
for joining us. I know You're probably busy with your
day jobs and your book tour, but it's great to
(01:59):
have you on. Let me start with this. The book
starts with that fateful evening in June of last year
when Donald Trump debated Joe Biden. At the time, I
seem to remember that the race was close Joe Biden.
I mean, Donald Trump had a slight lead. But during
(02:23):
the course of the debate, Joe Biden faltered, He seemed
to lose concentration. He stammered through a couple of answers.
And I remember I was sitting watching the debate with
some friends, all fellow Democrats, and we all gasped. It
(02:44):
was pretty horrible. What was behind all? Tell us the
backstory behind all that?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Amy, Yeah, so I think you weren't the only one
who guessed. I mean, we take you inside the Democratic universe.
We purposely opened the book with Nancy Pelosi in her
living room watching the debate. She can't believe it. She's
talking to people and hearing from donors and lawmakers and
other folks who are also shocked. James Clyburn pours himself
(03:16):
a drink watching the debate. So we take you, We
do a three sixty of what is happening inside and outside,
you know, at the at the debate and actually Democrats
watching the debate, and it's pretty interesting. I mean, that
is the moment that begins, obviously, the the dynamic of
(03:41):
trying to get Joe Biden to leave the race, and
we kind of let it unfold from there.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Okay, John, In the book, you discussed that well. You
mentioned the fact that when he ran and beat Donald
Trump in two thousand, he used to say something to
the effect on bridge to a next generation of Democrats,
(04:09):
and that suggests that there might be some question about
him running for reelection. He did obviously decide to run
for reelection and why he was obviously having problems you
mentioned in the book there were problems, his age, noticed
(04:33):
his slowing up. What happened? Why did he continue to
run for president?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
It's a great question. I think it's answered most simply
by something that Mike Donald, in one of his senior aides,
said to a prominent Democrat who spoke to us for
this book. And what Donald said to this person was,
nobody gives up the plane or the helicopter or the house.
Biden believed that he was the only person that could
(05:02):
beat Trump. He had spent most of his life seeking
the presidency, he finally had it in his hands. He
believed that he had done a good job as president
and that the American people would see that and reward it.
And I think what's most telling, Brad is that when
we talked to our sources close to Biden and close
to this decision, there was not a discussion really of
(05:23):
whether he would run for reelection, but more of when
and how he would announce it, how he would campaign
for it. You know, the only people who really presented
him anything close to an alternative view, according to our reporting,
were Anita Donne, who was his longtime communications advisor, and
Bob Bauer, her husband, who was Biden's personal lawyer. And
(05:45):
they sort of laid out for Biden what the ugly
parts of a campaign would look like, including delving into
the delving into the investigation into Biden's retention of classified documents,
including delving into Hunter Biden's uh legal problems and so.
But they didn't tell him not to run. They just said,
(06:07):
you know it's gonna be here. Here are some of
the tough things that you're going to encounter, so you
know you're right he did say to people that he
would be a bridge to a next generation. I think
there were a lot of implicit things that he said,
or a lot of things he said that implicitly suggested
he would serve just one term. I think a lot
of Americans thought that that would be the case, that
he was basically gonna, you know, sort of be a
(06:30):
little bit of a bulwark against the sort of chaos
of Trump's first term, come in and and sort of
handle the country with a smooth hand and and then
give it up. And he absolutely had no intention of
doing that at any time.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Amy, You know, I wanted to describe what happened in the
immediate apt the map of the debate. Phones were ringing,
texts were clicking. What happened next?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, So, I mean the democratic universe essentially imploded, and
donors started There was a massive freak out among donors.
They the campaign tried to appease them, get them on
multiple calls that week to say that everything is okay,
the polls haven't really moved at all, but donors.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Were getting really annoyed.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I mean, they couldn't unsee what they saw on the
debate stage, and so they started to withhold money. And
at the same time, Nancy Pelosi and other leaders are
hearing from lawmakers that are saying, you know, I'm really
nervous about how this is going to affect my race
in my district. And so you start hearing more of
(07:39):
that throughout. I mean, we detail in the book all
of these conversations that are being had. And then at
the same time, Joe Biden's people are getting really nervous
and they're threatening, they're kind of undermining their own vice
president and partner on the ticket and saying, look, if
you get rid of Joe Biden, you're going to be
(07:59):
left with Kamala Harris. And then at the same time, Brad,
you're having you know a lot of people like Nancy
Pelosi and Barack Obama are bouncing idea. You know, they're
they're trying to decide if they should like they're entertaining
the possibility of an open convention and open primary, and
so they're having those conversations, and so all of this
(08:21):
is happening at one time. It's a very long several weeks.
As you might recall, what we do in the book
is take you inside these conversations that are happening. We
all saw what was playing out. But I think with
John and I tried to do best is to really
put you in the room for all of the conversations
and the backroom conversations that are being had.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
You know, one of the things the book reminded me
of is and you mentioned that the reaction of the
donors to the failed debate of how much time and
effort the candidates and the campaigns than just raising the money.
I mean, we're talking about billion dollar enterprises here, and
(09:04):
it's amazing how influential donors are, especially in this case
you describing and in just in general, the amount of
time the candidates and their organizations spend raising money. What
was the final spending total in the presidential race? Do
you know?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I don't know what the overall total was the Harris campaign,
but you know that side of it basically came in
at about two billion dollars, a little over two billion dollars,
I have to go back to Trump campaign was a
little bit less than that. Obviously, there are outside groups
that contribute as well. So when you say billion dollar campaigns,
we're really talking about multi billion dollar campaigns. Brand and
(09:43):
to your point about the donors. I mean, if you're
raising money, and this is this is where the rubber
really met the road in a lot of ways. You know,
in order to have a successful campaign, they thought you
would have to have a big super pack, and the
donors to the main Biden super pack were the ones
that were freezing, you know, money first and foremost choking
off a group called Future Forward. In addition to that,
(10:06):
as Amy and I report, there were donor you know,
bundler types basically got people who raise money from other
people for the campaign who told the Biden aids directly,
there's no point in trying to schedule fundraising events because
we can't fill a room with people to just write
(10:26):
you the maximum donation check of a few thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Okay, we're going to have to take a short break now.
We'll be back after this very short break for our
radio listeners. We will continue the interview with our viewers
on Facebook and YouTube. Our guests are Jonathan Allen and
(10:51):
Amy Partners, the authors of a great new book called Flight,
The Wildest Battle for the White House. We'll be right back.
Welcome back to our radio listeners. This is Deadline DC
(11:14):
with Brad Bannon I want to remind our radio listeners
that you can watch us as well as listen to
us at Facebook dot com front Slash Deadline DC with
Brad Bannon Front Slash videos or on YouTube at YouTube
(11:36):
dot com front Slash at Deadline DC. Once Joe Biden
decided to get out of the race, it was not
a done deal. And that's one of the most interesting
parts of the book. I think it was not a
done deal that the Vikes president Kamal Harris was going
(11:57):
to be the Democratic nominee. She was right there, she
was next in line, but there was a fair amount
of opposition to her taking the reins. Can you talk
about that and who was behind that skepticism about her candidacy.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, I mean right away, Nancy Pelosi tells the confidante,
if he goes, she goes, meaning if Joe Biden goes,
Kamala Harris goes. There was doubt about our Barack Obama
had the same doubts. I think that's why both of
them were trying to offer up an alternative. They thought
that maybe the open primary was the way to go,
(12:35):
and so there was this urgency on her part and
her team's part to kind of seal the deal and
sew it up and get the support that she needs
behind her. And so even in the hours before and
we report this for the first time in the book,
in the hours leading up to it, she and her
(12:55):
advisors rather are meeting in her poolhouse at the Naval
Observatory in Washington and going over the plan for what
would happen if he dropped out. And when he does
announce that he's dropped out, this or he is dropping out,
this meeting is going on in the poolhouse, and so
they're they're prepared and ready to go, uh with with
(13:16):
what she needs to do. And so I think that's
sort of they they knew what they had to do,
and they they they got the you know, they they
galvanized support, got everyone on board and sprung into action.
She and she knew, and we detail for the book
in the first time that she had to get Joe
Biden's endorsement right away. And when he when they get
(13:40):
on the phone with one another and he she realizes
he isn't endorsing her, she pushes him for her and
for the endorsement right away.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Now, uh there, what was the nature of the hesitancy
about elevating the vice president to the top spot to
become the Democratic nominee of some people were clearly skeptical
of her potential candidacy.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
You know, it's interesting, Brad, it's and this has enraged
some of the readers in terms of what they what
they're finding out for the first sign. But the hesitancy
on Joe Biden's part. You know, he says to her,
She says to him, are you gonna endorse me? And
he says, uh, you've got my support, kid, And she
knows that's not an endorsement. If she doesn't hear the
(14:33):
E word back, it's basically the F word. But it's
not about him thinking that she's not going to be
very good. He already told or at least his aide
already told everyone that would listen that they didn't think
she was that great. And yet the reason that he
doesn't want to endorse her is it's an immediacy thing.
He doesn't want uh to sort of block out his
(14:54):
own spotlight. He wants to get out of the race.
And then as he tells her, he says, look, maybe
three or four day now, I'll endorse you. And of
course she's got this immediate need to like wrap up
these votes. And what Keith is caring about at that
moment is he wants to get out and then take
a little bit of a victory lap, basking this idea
that he is magnanimously giving up his candidacy, as we
(15:18):
heard him later do, he compares himself to George Washington
giving up power voluntarily. Now, technically I guess it was voluntary,
but in reality it was under tremendous.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Dress and why and remember there's one hundred days now
before election day. I can certainly understand the Harris did
not want him to take his time. You know, this
is my observation, and please react to it. I think
(15:52):
it was amazing that she was able to put together
a presidential campaign and what was at one hundred days
or whatever. It seems to me starting a campaign that
late it is and trying to organize it is just
(16:12):
a herculean task. You know. I'm thinking of states where
I've worked that have late September primaries and you're in
a bitter primary and then all of a sudden you
have to turn them around and run against somebody else
and organize your campaign accordingly in a very short period.
Of time. I kept thinking, how can you do that?
(16:33):
Possibly do that in a presidential race? First of all,
you want to leave yourselself some time to make mistakes
and correct them down the line.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really good observation,
rad And I think that's why she really felt the
need to She had to jump in. She knew what
she had to do, and she inherited a lot of
his staff, and there was some tension related to that
that we detail in the book for the first time,
(17:03):
because she wants to bring in her own people, but
you know, there isn't that much time to do that,
so her staff is essentially left to run to operate
in one room, and she's she's forced to keep on
Gena Malley Dylan, you know, they have a conversation, but
she I think she would have run a different campaign
(17:26):
had she had more time.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Obviously, Amy, I just want to add, I won't say,
because it's a family show what the name of that
chapter is about all of that intensity, but it rhymes
with muckery and it starts with an F.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah. Yeah, Well, let me ask you this question, what
was the nature that I mean, for instance, Nancy Pelosi
and I think Barack Obama, that's a sense I got
from your book. We're both hesitant about Harris. What was
the nature of that hesitancy.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
You know, there are a few reasons for it, but
the big one is they didn't think that she would win.
They didn't think she would be good enough. And in
Pelosi's case, you know, they're both from the San Francisco
Bay area. She's watched Kamala Harris in politics for a
long time and they are not friends. They do not
get along well, and so I think that had a
(18:23):
little bit to do with it. But I think also
just the observation of Harris's abilities. I think also though
that if you watch this race, Kamala Harris performed much
better than Barack Obama or Nancy Pelosi or many of
the other critics of Kamala Harris would have predicted. I
think she performed better than Joe Biden would have had
he stayed in the race. And she definitely had some
(18:45):
flaws as a candidate. Some of those might have been
correct goble over more time. But I think what we
found is actually she was Had the election ended earlier,
she might have done even better that at the end.
She was losing ground, losing steam, and there are a
lot of reasons for that. We could discuss them, but
the short answer to your question is that Barack Obama
and Nancy Pelosi had no faith in Kamala Harris.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Okay, We're going to have to go to another break
very quickly. By guests Today on the show our Amy
Parnas of The Hill and Jonathan Allen from NBC News
to talk about their great new best selling book, Fight
(19:29):
the Wildest Battle for the Inside the Wildest Battle to
the White House. We're going to go to break now,
but we'll come back with more on Amy and John
and talk about somebody we haven't talked about much, but
should Donald Trump. We will get back from this break,
(19:51):
and the question I'm going to ask of both of
you is what is Donald Trump's secret to success?
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Find DC with Brad Bannon and our guests are Amy Pannas,
who from The Hill, and Jonathan Allen from NBC News
to talk about their great new best selling book published
by William Morrow, Fight Inside the Wildest Battle for the
White House.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Let me let me try this. In fact, I think
someone may talked about it at the White House Correspondence
dinner Saturday night, did depress as a whole failed to
notice Joe Biden's decline.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
No, But at the same time, you know, it's not
on me and Amy to do a weea kulpa for
the entire media. Amy and I wrote a book in
twenty twenty called Lucky, How Joe Biden Barely won the Presidency.
I think thank you for having it. I think a
lot of a lot of Democrats ignored the warning signs
(21:05):
at twenty twenty. That there that, you know, both the
political warning signs and a little bit of at least
Joe Biden's age. We reported in that book that his
aide stopped scheduling events at night. We saw things on
the campaign trail that you know, saw him, you know,
looking and feeling a little older and certainly having lost
(21:27):
something off of his fastball. But I know that Amy
and I, both in our daily reporting for our respective
news outlets, did a lot of work to try to
get information on the state of Joe Biden's physical and
mental condition over the course of four years. Because we
could see, like many other people, that that he was declining.
You could see it on television, You could see it,
(21:49):
you know, for folks that were close to him, you
could see it. But what we got was a lot
of stone walling from the White House and a lot
of you know, intimidation from the White House in terms
of trying to report the story, and very little access
to the president himself. And so I think there was
a you know, there was a cocoon around him that
grew tighter and tighter over time. I don't think his
(22:11):
decline was linear. I think there were days that were
better day, and we report on this in the book.
Days there were better days that were worse, weeks that
were better, weeks that were worse. But you know, look,
I think the decline is something that was not reported
on enough. But I don't look at the entire press
corps and say, well, nobody out there was digging, Nobody
(22:32):
out there was trying to figure it out, because I
know Amy and I certainly were, and I know both
of us wrote stories about elements of the decline over
time and suffered the backlash of the angry White House
officials and others in the Democratic Party.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, and also Brad, I think that at this point
someone needs to come out, either Joe Biden or someone
else around him and explain exactly what was going on,
because I think even a lot of Democratic vote after
they read our book, they have questions and they need
to address these questions.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Okay, let me ask you about this. One of the
things that you emphasized in the book was the lack
of distance between Kamala Harris's positions and Joe Biden's. It
referred to something I think there should be no space
(23:29):
between us, and I guess my question is why it.
Looking at the polls, Joe Biden was not popular. I
think to a lot of people, Donald Trump represented change,
and why didn't Kamala Harris do more to create some
(23:51):
distance between her and President Biden. There's that episode you
talk about in the book where she was on I
think the View and they asked her what the host
asked her about the differences between her and Biden's approach,
and she said, no space whatsoever, or something to that effect.
(24:14):
What were the purchase on her that forbade herd or
prevented her from creating so much need distance between him
between her and Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I think in some ways she you know, they had
an agreement obviously between the two of them, the two
principles that they would stick together, that there would be
no daylight. I think their staff's, the White House staff
and her staff were under the impression that they could
distance themselves as much as possible. But I think the
view moment is very interesting because she had prepared for
(24:49):
that moment, and her aids were frustrated that she didn't,
you know, articulate what they had prepared, which is, you
know that she was proud of the fact that, you know,
proud of their record, but you know, and she was
supposed to pivot to the future and what she would
do differently in the future, and she doesn't do that.
(25:11):
So there's deep frustration. But I think you know, what
we're talking about here is loyalty to the president. And
when you think about when you go back four years
and think about what was happening around her selection, there
were a lot of people who doubted the fact that
she would be loyal, and in the end, she was
(25:32):
a very loyal foot soldier.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
To the president. Okay, okay, let me ask you this question.
There is already a lot of speculation about the twenty
twenty eight presidential race. Donald Trump has hinted that he
(25:55):
plans to run again. How he can do that constitutionally.
I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, but I did
stay in a holiday and express one. But let's start
with the Democratic side. Kamala Harris is trying to make
a decision now. She could run for governor her native
(26:19):
California in twenty twenty six or and I don't think
she can do both, but what do I think? Or
she could wait and run for president again in twenty
twenty eight, and the early polls show that she has
(26:44):
a big lead over her potential Democratic opponents. But my
guess is that's probably pretty much based on her superior
name recognition. So what do you all think is the
future for Kamala Harris?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Well, I would hate to it out in front of her.
She's speaking, i think for the first time publicly this week,
and it sounds like what she's talking about is the
kind of stuff you'd be talking about if you were
running for president, which is to say, in opposition to
Donald Trump. Maybe she will run for governor. I think
you're right that it is unlikely she runs for governor
(27:21):
then runs for president, because either she loses the governorship
or she's a brand new governor. On the other hand,
the only people that would be potentially angry at her
for serving a year or two in a governor's race
before becoming president would be California voters who would have
just elected her. So maybe she'd be okay. I feel
like California is going to go Democratic, and whatever the
next election is, I don't know what the future is
(27:44):
for her. I would not underestimate the value of that
name recognition because name recognition costs a lot of money
for people who don't have it, and it is a
huge advantage. It does not mean that she would win.
I think, you know, what she would have to do
to be in a place to win a Democratic primary
or to win a general election would be to come
up with a vision for the future, which she did
(28:06):
not do in this last election. As Amy was saying before,
she did not present change in an election where you know,
most of the country thought the nation was on the
wrong track, and you know, she had some policy ideas,
but they did not you know, they did not amount
to a big vision for change. So if she were
(28:26):
to come out in twenty twenty eight with a real
plan for the Democrats that sounded good, perhaps she could
win a nomination. If she can't do that.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I think it'd be real hard if there is, if
she does run for prison again. Any sense of whether
she learned some hard lessons based on her twenty twenty
four campaign. Excuse me, that was one of the real
(28:53):
problems with her getting in becoming Nummie. So sure, she
has so little time, and everybody makes mistakes at the beginning,
but usually you have time to correct them, and she
really did. So do you think she's learned any lessons
from her two thousand and twenty four race that would
carry over to twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's why she's sort of
taking her time right now, and we haven't seen that
much of her. She's considering all of this. She's talking
to a lot of close aids right now to figure
out what happened. Because she thinks that she's going to win,
and we detail this in the book. She goes into
election night thinking she's going to win. Tim Walls also
(29:35):
thinks they're going to win, and they're shocked by the
fact that they have lost. They felt like, you know,
they went into it with a lot of enthusiasm. The
polls were tipping toward them, and you know, the excitement
around the ticket, So I think she had a lot
(29:55):
to learn coming out of it. She was obviously, and yeah, yeah,
I think that she she'll take that time now to decide.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
And Brad, we have a whole book that she could
if she has a few minutes, could you know, take
some time to read. I think it's a good read.
It's called Fight Inside, the Wildest Battle for the White House.
And I think there are lessons for the Democrats, for
Kamala Harris and other potential candidates, and lessons for the
Republicans because sometimes when you win, there are things you
could have done better, and sometimes when you lose, you
(30:24):
did some good stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, we're going to take another break here for our
radio listeners. This is Deadline DC with Brad Bannon. I
of course, and Brad Bannon, no one else would step
up to take the job. My gifts in this half
hour are Amy Paonnas in the Hill and Jonathan Allen
(30:47):
from NBC News, who are here to talk about their
great new best selling book on the twenty twenty four campaign, Fight.
(31:08):
Welcome back to Deadline d C with Brad Bannon. I
want to thank Welcome back our radio listeners, especially if
you want to watch the show as well as listen
to it. You can watch it at Facebook dot com
front Slash, Deadline d C with Brad Bannon front Slash Videos,
(31:31):
or on YouTube at YouTube dot com front Slash at
Deadline DC, or on Twitter at Twitter dot com front
Slash Brad Bannon. Let's let's try this. I want to
(31:53):
follow up my question about Harris. Who do you think
of the other Democrats players to watch in terms of
a twenty twenty eight presidential race. We've all we've already
talked about Kamala Harris. Who are some of the other
likely possibilities?
Speaker 2 (32:15):
It's a huge bench. I think Gavin Newsom, the governor
of California and John and I just sat with him
the other day. I think Gretchen Witmer wes Moore, AOFC
is making some headlines lately with her rallies and getting
some a lot of interest. Pete buddhaj Edge, I think
(32:36):
there there's a there's going to be a lot of
interest for a lot of.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Different Shapiro Shapiro.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania. I haven't heard his name
a lot, but I'd be surprised if you don't hear
a little a little bit at least the Suruban Diego
and Arizona, the new senator from there.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Okay, Now, trying to figure out what's going to happen
in twenty on the Republican side is a little tricky.
The President has says that, you know, there are ways
which he could design running for a third term. And
again I don't know how that is. We should get
(33:17):
a constitutional skyllar on the show. Maybe he or she
can explain that to me. It's unclear to me. But
let's say that Donald Trump doesn't run for re election.
Who do you think that big players are on the
Republican side. I know they have Trump twenty twenty eight
hats out now and I saw Donald Trump wearing one
(33:41):
the other day. Is that a sign?
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yeah? I would take him seriously. You know, I don't
know that he will find a way to do it.
I don't know, But like Donald Trump wants power. We
know he's run for president three times. He lost the presidency,
he came back to run for it again after having
held it. You know, we haven't seen that since you
know Cleveland Harrison Cleveland back in the nineteenth century. So
(34:09):
I don't doubt for a minute that he wants to
be president after January twenty, twenty twenty eight. If he
is not somebody who is running for president, I think
you look first at the Vice president jd Vance, who
has done everything he can to be close to the magabase.
But I think it'll be a little more open than that.
I don't think Ron DeSantis will ever give up his
dream of wanting to be president. He's the governor of Florida.
(34:30):
So I would look at the Republican governor's bench and
look around and say, I don't know, maybe Brian Kemp
from Georgia. There's certainly any number of Republican governors that
will look at it, maybe some senators, maybe Ted Cruz
wants to run again. Josh Holly from Missouri, Tom Cotton
from Arkansas.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Okay, let me ask you this, what is your assessment
of Donald Trump's of the Democratic response to the first
one hundred days of Trump's presidency. It seems to me that,
you know, and this goes back to a point we
(35:08):
talked about earlier. Trump is has a cult following which
is strongly united behind him. I think there's some comfort
among the Americans for bringing back you know, the good,
you know the nineteen fifties. Every time. That's a lot
(35:30):
of times when I think see Donald Trump, I think
of that show All in the Family and that song
Archie Bunker sings at the beginning when men were men.
We could use a man like Herbert Hoover again. Okay,
that's the last time I sing on the show. First
and last time. And I don't think my senses that
(35:56):
Democrats have been divided in their response. One group of Democrats,
and I would guess that very much. Bernie Standers and
AOC have honed on on economic issues and the way
of as a way of reversing the financial decline of
(36:22):
hot pressed middle class families. There are other Democrats who
talk more about immigration and threats to democracy. Just generally,
what do you think of the democratic response such as
it is to Donald Trump's first one hundred days.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I mean, it's been all over the place, and I
think that's what's frustrating a lot of Democrats right now,
including people like Avin Newsom. You know, they want to
see something different. They think that the AOC Bernie tour,
for example, is a good thing, but there needs to
be more in that. We saw in twenty seventeen when
(37:02):
Democrats were the Party of the resistance didn't really work
so well in their favor. I mean, they did well
in the midterms, but you know, I don't think you
can still just continue to be the party of the resistance.
Elections are about the future. People want to hear that
you have a plan, and right now Democrats don't have
a plan.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Okay, And well I should bring this up too. Mate.
Silver was on some show a couple of weeks ago
and they asked him, I think it was might have
been Morning Joe asked him who he thought would be
the Democratic nominee, and he said, Alexander Cortez Ocazo. Could
(37:48):
you react to that? Is that is really an option?
Speaker 3 (37:53):
I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know
for sure, so I would hesitate to say no about anything.
I would just say we're a long way away. And
she has she, like all the other candidates, potential candidates,
has a number of challenges, hers, not least of which
you know, she's she's definitely not in her late seventies,
(38:13):
but fairly young and fairly liberal. And I you know,
we would just watch a campaign in which Kamala Harris
is you know, on the record positions were used against
her pretty effectively by the Trump campaign, and so it'll
be interesting to see whether Democrats decide, hey, we're gonna
go with with somebody who has this sort of you know,
(38:34):
extreme for the party set of views and go fight
on that ground, or perhaps fight on different ground.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Let's let me ask you this. Despite the fact he
was a very unpopular president and he clearly made some mistakes,
I have a soft spot in my heart for Joe Biden.
I can't help myself. And it seems to me that
(39:03):
even though he's in disrepute right now, he may have
a legacy down the line. Despite his failures. He got
the United States involved in the fight against climate change,
(39:24):
and although Trump's trying to reverse that, I'd like to
think that if we win the fight against climate change,
it will be because Joe Biden started the fight. It
also seems to me his other legacy he was trying
to innovate the American economy, you know, rebuilding, intrastructure, tech innovation.
(39:49):
Am I just being crazy here or will Joe Biden
Historians treat Joe Biden better than current observers do.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
It's a very tricky question, Brad, and I think We're
still sorting that out right now. I do think that
he didn't do himself any favors with his response to
the you know, in the way he in which he
handled himself on the campaign and in the final days
(40:21):
of his campaign. I think a lot of people in
the party are blaming him right now for that.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah, Brad, I think that I think, you know, similarly
to Ruth Bader Ginsburg. A lot of Democrats love Ruth
Bader Ginsburg, and they loved her for a long time,
but they are still mad at her, yeah, for not
knowing when to step aside. And I think that Biden
will continue to have the appreciation of Democrats for the
many things he did before not choosing to step aside,
(40:52):
but for not choosing to opt out of a second
term run in the first place, and then the way
he handled himself after the debate, fighting truth and nail
to stay in. I don't think that's going to be
helpful to his legacy.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Okay. I want to thank our guests today, Amy Parnis,
Senior national political correspondent for The Hill, and Jonathan Allen,
national politics reporter for NBC News. I also want to
thank my intrepid executive producer Mark Grimaldi, who makes sure
(41:32):
the show runs on time and stays online. Stay tuned.
We'll be back soon with more of Deadline DC with
Brat Bannon. Missed the next show At your own peril
or you'll never forget yourself. I'm Brat Bannon signing off.
(41:52):
We'll be back together before you know it.
Leslie Marshall show a true democracy in talk radio of
for and by you the people. Live from our nation's capital.
(00:33):
It's Deadline DC with Brad Bannon. Welcome the Deadline d
C with Brad Bannon. I'm Brad Bannon. I'm a national
democratic and progressive strategist, a political analyst for news radio
KNX in Los Angeles, and a weekly contributed to the
(00:54):
Hill in Washington, d C. If you want to read
get my take on Donald Trump's imperial presidency, you can
read my contributions in the Hill at muckrack dot com.
Front Slash Brad Bannon mondays on Deadline DC, I talked
to the people and to the players behind the politics
(01:16):
and policies that drive our gate nation forward or at
least keep it from going backwards during Trump two point zero.
This Monday, we have a great show. We have two
guests for the prison one are our guests are the
author the authors of Flight Inside the Wildest Wildness Battle
(01:39):
for the White House. We have Jonathan Allen, who is
a senior national politics reporter for NBC News and Amy Parnis,
senior political correspondent to the Hill. Thanks both of you
for joining us. I know You're probably busy with your
day jobs and your book tour, but it's great to
(01:59):
have you on. Let me start with this. The book
starts with that fateful evening in June of last year
when Donald Trump debated Joe Biden. At the time, I
seem to remember that the race was close Joe Biden.
I mean, Donald Trump had a slight lead. But during
(02:23):
the course of the debate, Joe Biden faltered, He seemed
to lose concentration. He stammered through a couple of answers.
And I remember I was sitting watching the debate with
some friends, all fellow Democrats, and we all gasped. It
(02:44):
was pretty horrible. What was behind all? Tell us the
backstory behind all that?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Amy, Yeah, so I think you weren't the only one
who guessed. I mean, we take you inside the Democratic universe.
We purposely opened the book with Nancy Pelosi in her
living room watching the debate. She can't believe it. She's
talking to people and hearing from donors and lawmakers and
other folks who are also shocked. James Clyburn pours himself
(03:16):
a drink watching the debate. So we take you, We
do a three sixty of what is happening inside and outside,
you know, at the at the debate and actually Democrats
watching the debate, and it's pretty interesting. I mean, that
is the moment that begins, obviously, the the dynamic of
(03:41):
trying to get Joe Biden to leave the race, and
we kind of let it unfold from there.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Okay, John, In the book, you discussed that well. You
mentioned the fact that when he ran and beat Donald
Trump in two thousand, he used to say something to
the effect on bridge to a next generation of Democrats,
(04:09):
and that suggests that there might be some question about
him running for reelection. He did obviously decide to run
for reelection and why he was obviously having problems you
mentioned in the book there were problems, his age, noticed
(04:33):
his slowing up. What happened? Why did he continue to
run for president?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
It's a great question. I think it's answered most simply
by something that Mike Donald, in one of his senior aides,
said to a prominent Democrat who spoke to us for
this book. And what Donald said to this person was,
nobody gives up the plane or the helicopter or the house.
Biden believed that he was the only person that could
(05:02):
beat Trump. He had spent most of his life seeking
the presidency, he finally had it in his hands. He
believed that he had done a good job as president
and that the American people would see that and reward it.
And I think what's most telling, Brad is that when
we talked to our sources close to Biden and close
to this decision, there was not a discussion really of
(05:23):
whether he would run for reelection, but more of when
and how he would announce it, how he would campaign
for it. You know, the only people who really presented
him anything close to an alternative view, according to our reporting,
were Anita Donne, who was his longtime communications advisor, and
Bob Bauer, her husband, who was Biden's personal lawyer. And
(05:45):
they sort of laid out for Biden what the ugly
parts of a campaign would look like, including delving into
the delving into the investigation into Biden's retention of classified documents,
including delving into Hunter Biden's uh legal problems and so.
But they didn't tell him not to run. They just said,
(06:07):
you know it's gonna be here. Here are some of
the tough things that you're going to encounter, so you
know you're right he did say to people that he
would be a bridge to a next generation. I think
there were a lot of implicit things that he said,
or a lot of things he said that implicitly suggested
he would serve just one term. I think a lot
of Americans thought that that would be the case, that
he was basically gonna, you know, sort of be a
(06:30):
little bit of a bulwark against the sort of chaos
of Trump's first term, come in and and sort of
handle the country with a smooth hand and and then
give it up. And he absolutely had no intention of
doing that at any time.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Amy, You know, I wanted to describe what happened in the
immediate apt the map of the debate. Phones were ringing,
texts were clicking. What happened next?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, So, I mean the democratic universe essentially imploded, and
donors started There was a massive freak out among donors.
They the campaign tried to appease them, get them on
multiple calls that week to say that everything is okay,
the polls haven't really moved at all, but donors.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Were getting really annoyed.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I mean, they couldn't unsee what they saw on the
debate stage, and so they started to withhold money. And
at the same time, Nancy Pelosi and other leaders are
hearing from lawmakers that are saying, you know, I'm really
nervous about how this is going to affect my race
in my district. And so you start hearing more of
(07:39):
that throughout. I mean, we detail in the book all
of these conversations that are being had. And then at
the same time, Joe Biden's people are getting really nervous
and they're threatening, they're kind of undermining their own vice
president and partner on the ticket and saying, look, if
you get rid of Joe Biden, you're going to be
(07:59):
left with Kamala Harris. And then at the same time, Brad,
you're having you know a lot of people like Nancy
Pelosi and Barack Obama are bouncing idea. You know, they're
they're trying to decide if they should like they're entertaining
the possibility of an open convention and open primary, and
so they're having those conversations, and so all of this
(08:21):
is happening at one time. It's a very long several weeks.
As you might recall, what we do in the book
is take you inside these conversations that are happening. We
all saw what was playing out. But I think with
John and I tried to do best is to really
put you in the room for all of the conversations
and the backroom conversations that are being had.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
You know, one of the things the book reminded me
of is and you mentioned that the reaction of the
donors to the failed debate of how much time and
effort the candidates and the campaigns than just raising the money.
I mean, we're talking about billion dollar enterprises here, and
(09:04):
it's amazing how influential donors are, especially in this case
you describing and in just in general, the amount of
time the candidates and their organizations spend raising money. What
was the final spending total in the presidential race? Do
you know?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I don't know what the overall total was the Harris campaign,
but you know that side of it basically came in
at about two billion dollars, a little over two billion dollars,
I have to go back to Trump campaign was a
little bit less than that. Obviously, there are outside groups
that contribute as well. So when you say billion dollar campaigns,
we're really talking about multi billion dollar campaigns. Brand and
(09:43):
to your point about the donors. I mean, if you're
raising money, and this is this is where the rubber
really met the road in a lot of ways. You know,
in order to have a successful campaign, they thought you
would have to have a big super pack, and the
donors to the main Biden super pack were the ones
that were freezing, you know, money first and foremost choking
off a group called Future Forward. In addition to that,
(10:06):
as Amy and I report, there were donor you know,
bundler types basically got people who raise money from other
people for the campaign who told the Biden aids directly,
there's no point in trying to schedule fundraising events because
we can't fill a room with people to just write
(10:26):
you the maximum donation check of a few thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Okay, we're going to have to take a short break now.
We'll be back after this very short break for our
radio listeners. We will continue the interview with our viewers
on Facebook and YouTube. Our guests are Jonathan Allen and
(10:51):
Amy Partners, the authors of a great new book called Flight,
The Wildest Battle for the White House. We'll be right back.
Welcome back to our radio listeners. This is Deadline DC
(11:14):
with Brad Bannon I want to remind our radio listeners
that you can watch us as well as listen to
us at Facebook dot com front Slash Deadline DC with
Brad Bannon Front Slash videos or on YouTube at YouTube
(11:36):
dot com front Slash at Deadline DC. Once Joe Biden
decided to get out of the race, it was not
a done deal. And that's one of the most interesting
parts of the book. I think it was not a
done deal that the Vikes president Kamal Harris was going
(11:57):
to be the Democratic nominee. She was right there, she
was next in line, but there was a fair amount
of opposition to her taking the reins. Can you talk
about that and who was behind that skepticism about her candidacy.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, I mean right away, Nancy Pelosi tells the confidante,
if he goes, she goes, meaning if Joe Biden goes,
Kamala Harris goes. There was doubt about our Barack Obama
had the same doubts. I think that's why both of
them were trying to offer up an alternative. They thought
that maybe the open primary was the way to go,
(12:35):
and so there was this urgency on her part and
her team's part to kind of seal the deal and
sew it up and get the support that she needs
behind her. And so even in the hours before and
we report this for the first time in the book,
in the hours leading up to it, she and her
(12:55):
advisors rather are meeting in her poolhouse at the Naval
Observatory in Washington and going over the plan for what
would happen if he dropped out. And when he does
announce that he's dropped out, this or he is dropping out,
this meeting is going on in the poolhouse, and so
they're they're prepared and ready to go, uh with with
(13:16):
what she needs to do. And so I think that's
sort of they they knew what they had to do,
and they they they got the you know, they they
galvanized support, got everyone on board and sprung into action.
She and she knew, and we detail for the book
in the first time that she had to get Joe
Biden's endorsement right away. And when he when they get
(13:40):
on the phone with one another and he she realizes
he isn't endorsing her, she pushes him for her and
for the endorsement right away.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Now, uh there, what was the nature of the hesitancy
about elevating the vice president to the top spot to
become the Democratic nominee of some people were clearly skeptical
of her potential candidacy.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
You know, it's interesting, Brad, it's and this has enraged
some of the readers in terms of what they what
they're finding out for the first sign. But the hesitancy
on Joe Biden's part. You know, he says to her,
She says to him, are you gonna endorse me? And
he says, uh, you've got my support, kid, And she
knows that's not an endorsement. If she doesn't hear the
(14:33):
E word back, it's basically the F word. But it's
not about him thinking that she's not going to be
very good. He already told or at least his aide
already told everyone that would listen that they didn't think
she was that great. And yet the reason that he
doesn't want to endorse her is it's an immediacy thing.
He doesn't want uh to sort of block out his
(14:54):
own spotlight. He wants to get out of the race.
And then as he tells her, he says, look, maybe
three or four day now, I'll endorse you. And of
course she's got this immediate need to like wrap up
these votes. And what Keith is caring about at that
moment is he wants to get out and then take
a little bit of a victory lap, basking this idea
that he is magnanimously giving up his candidacy, as we
(15:18):
heard him later do, he compares himself to George Washington
giving up power voluntarily. Now, technically I guess it was voluntary,
but in reality it was under tremendous.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Dress and why and remember there's one hundred days now
before election day. I can certainly understand the Harris did
not want him to take his time. You know, this
is my observation, and please react to it. I think
(15:52):
it was amazing that she was able to put together
a presidential campaign and what was at one hundred days
or whatever. It seems to me starting a campaign that
late it is and trying to organize it is just
(16:12):
a herculean task. You know. I'm thinking of states where
I've worked that have late September primaries and you're in
a bitter primary and then all of a sudden you
have to turn them around and run against somebody else
and organize your campaign accordingly in a very short period.
Of time. I kept thinking, how can you do that?
(16:33):
Possibly do that in a presidential race? First of all,
you want to leave yourselself some time to make mistakes
and correct them down the line.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really good observation,
rad And I think that's why she really felt the
need to She had to jump in. She knew what
she had to do, and she inherited a lot of
his staff, and there was some tension related to that
that we detail in the book for the first time,
(17:03):
because she wants to bring in her own people, but
you know, there isn't that much time to do that,
so her staff is essentially left to run to operate
in one room, and she's she's forced to keep on
Gena Malley Dylan, you know, they have a conversation, but
she I think she would have run a different campaign
(17:26):
had she had more time.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Obviously, Amy, I just want to add, I won't say,
because it's a family show what the name of that
chapter is about all of that intensity, but it rhymes
with muckery and it starts with an F.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah. Yeah, Well, let me ask you this question, what
was the nature that I mean, for instance, Nancy Pelosi
and I think Barack Obama, that's a sense I got
from your book. We're both hesitant about Harris. What was
the nature of that hesitancy.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
You know, there are a few reasons for it, but
the big one is they didn't think that she would win.
They didn't think she would be good enough. And in
Pelosi's case, you know, they're both from the San Francisco
Bay area. She's watched Kamala Harris in politics for a
long time and they are not friends. They do not
get along well, and so I think that had a
(18:23):
little bit to do with it. But I think also
just the observation of Harris's abilities. I think also though
that if you watch this race, Kamala Harris performed much
better than Barack Obama or Nancy Pelosi or many of
the other critics of Kamala Harris would have predicted. I
think she performed better than Joe Biden would have had
he stayed in the race. And she definitely had some
(18:45):
flaws as a candidate. Some of those might have been
correct goble over more time. But I think what we
found is actually she was Had the election ended earlier,
she might have done even better that at the end.
She was losing ground, losing steam, and there are a
lot of reasons for that. We could discuss them, but
the short answer to your question is that Barack Obama
and Nancy Pelosi had no faith in Kamala Harris.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Okay, We're going to have to go to another break
very quickly. By guests Today on the show our Amy
Parnas of The Hill and Jonathan Allen from NBC News
to talk about their great new best selling book, Fight
(19:29):
the Wildest Battle for the Inside the Wildest Battle to
the White House. We're going to go to break now,
but we'll come back with more on Amy and John
and talk about somebody we haven't talked about much, but
should Donald Trump. We will get back from this break,
(19:51):
and the question I'm going to ask of both of
you is what is Donald Trump's secret to success?
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Find DC with Brad Bannon and our guests are Amy Pannas,
who from The Hill, and Jonathan Allen from NBC News
to talk about their great new best selling book published
by William Morrow, Fight Inside the Wildest Battle for the
White House.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Let me let me try this. In fact, I think
someone may talked about it at the White House Correspondence
dinner Saturday night, did depress as a whole failed to
notice Joe Biden's decline.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
No, But at the same time, you know, it's not
on me and Amy to do a weea kulpa for
the entire media. Amy and I wrote a book in
twenty twenty called Lucky, How Joe Biden Barely won the Presidency.
I think thank you for having it. I think a
lot of a lot of Democrats ignored the warning signs
(21:05):
at twenty twenty. That there that, you know, both the
political warning signs and a little bit of at least
Joe Biden's age. We reported in that book that his
aide stopped scheduling events at night. We saw things on
the campaign trail that you know, saw him, you know,
looking and feeling a little older and certainly having lost
(21:27):
something off of his fastball. But I know that Amy
and I, both in our daily reporting for our respective
news outlets, did a lot of work to try to
get information on the state of Joe Biden's physical and
mental condition over the course of four years. Because we
could see, like many other people, that that he was declining.
You could see it on television, You could see it,
(21:49):
you know, for folks that were close to him, you
could see it. But what we got was a lot
of stone walling from the White House and a lot
of you know, intimidation from the White House in terms
of trying to report the story, and very little access
to the president himself. And so I think there was
a you know, there was a cocoon around him that
grew tighter and tighter over time. I don't think his
(22:11):
decline was linear. I think there were days that were
better day, and we report on this in the book.
Days there were better days that were worse, weeks that
were better, weeks that were worse. But you know, look,
I think the decline is something that was not reported
on enough. But I don't look at the entire press
corps and say, well, nobody out there was digging, Nobody
(22:32):
out there was trying to figure it out, because I
know Amy and I certainly were, and I know both
of us wrote stories about elements of the decline over
time and suffered the backlash of the angry White House
officials and others in the Democratic Party.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, and also Brad, I think that at this point
someone needs to come out, either Joe Biden or someone
else around him and explain exactly what was going on,
because I think even a lot of Democratic vote after
they read our book, they have questions and they need
to address these questions.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Okay, let me ask you about this. One of the
things that you emphasized in the book was the lack
of distance between Kamala Harris's positions and Joe Biden's. It
referred to something I think there should be no space
(23:29):
between us, and I guess my question is why it.
Looking at the polls, Joe Biden was not popular. I
think to a lot of people, Donald Trump represented change,
and why didn't Kamala Harris do more to create some
(23:51):
distance between her and President Biden. There's that episode you
talk about in the book where she was on I
think the View and they asked her what the host
asked her about the differences between her and Biden's approach,
and she said, no space whatsoever, or something to that effect.
(24:14):
What were the purchase on her that forbade herd or
prevented her from creating so much need distance between him
between her and Joe Biden.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I think in some ways she you know, they had
an agreement obviously between the two of them, the two
principles that they would stick together, that there would be
no daylight. I think their staff's, the White House staff
and her staff were under the impression that they could
distance themselves as much as possible. But I think the
view moment is very interesting because she had prepared for
(24:49):
that moment, and her aids were frustrated that she didn't,
you know, articulate what they had prepared, which is, you
know that she was proud of the fact that, you know,
proud of their record, but you know, and she was
supposed to pivot to the future and what she would
do differently in the future, and she doesn't do that.
(25:11):
So there's deep frustration. But I think you know, what
we're talking about here is loyalty to the president. And
when you think about when you go back four years
and think about what was happening around her selection, there
were a lot of people who doubted the fact that
she would be loyal, and in the end, she was
(25:32):
a very loyal foot soldier.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
To the president. Okay, okay, let me ask you this question.
There is already a lot of speculation about the twenty
twenty eight presidential race. Donald Trump has hinted that he
(25:55):
plans to run again. How he can do that constitutionally.
I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, but I did
stay in a holiday and express one. But let's start
with the Democratic side. Kamala Harris is trying to make
a decision now. She could run for governor her native
(26:19):
California in twenty twenty six or and I don't think
she can do both, but what do I think? Or
she could wait and run for president again in twenty
twenty eight, and the early polls show that she has
(26:44):
a big lead over her potential Democratic opponents. But my
guess is that's probably pretty much based on her superior
name recognition. So what do you all think is the
future for Kamala Harris?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Well, I would hate to it out in front of her.
She's speaking, i think for the first time publicly this week,
and it sounds like what she's talking about is the
kind of stuff you'd be talking about if you were
running for president, which is to say, in opposition to
Donald Trump. Maybe she will run for governor. I think
you're right that it is unlikely she runs for governor
(27:21):
then runs for president, because either she loses the governorship
or she's a brand new governor. On the other hand,
the only people that would be potentially angry at her
for serving a year or two in a governor's race
before becoming president would be California voters who would have
just elected her. So maybe she'd be okay. I feel
like California is going to go Democratic, and whatever the
next election is, I don't know what the future is
(27:44):
for her. I would not underestimate the value of that
name recognition because name recognition costs a lot of money
for people who don't have it, and it is a
huge advantage. It does not mean that she would win.
I think, you know, what she would have to do
to be in a place to win a Democratic primary
or to win a general election would be to come
up with a vision for the future, which she did
(28:06):
not do in this last election. As Amy was saying before,
she did not present change in an election where you know,
most of the country thought the nation was on the
wrong track, and you know, she had some policy ideas,
but they did not you know, they did not amount
to a big vision for change. So if she were
(28:26):
to come out in twenty twenty eight with a real
plan for the Democrats that sounded good, perhaps she could
win a nomination. If she can't do that.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I think it'd be real hard if there is, if
she does run for prison again. Any sense of whether
she learned some hard lessons based on her twenty twenty
four campaign. Excuse me, that was one of the real
(28:53):
problems with her getting in becoming Nummie. So sure, she
has so little time, and everybody makes mistakes at the beginning,
but usually you have time to correct them, and she
really did. So do you think she's learned any lessons
from her two thousand and twenty four race that would
carry over to twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's why she's sort of
taking her time right now, and we haven't seen that
much of her. She's considering all of this. She's talking
to a lot of close aids right now to figure
out what happened. Because she thinks that she's going to win,
and we detail this in the book. She goes into
election night thinking she's going to win. Tim Walls also
(29:35):
thinks they're going to win, and they're shocked by the
fact that they have lost. They felt like, you know,
they went into it with a lot of enthusiasm. The
polls were tipping toward them, and you know, the excitement
around the ticket, So I think she had a lot
(29:55):
to learn coming out of it. She was obviously, and yeah, yeah,
I think that she she'll take that time now to decide.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
And Brad, we have a whole book that she could
if she has a few minutes, could you know, take
some time to read. I think it's a good read.
It's called Fight Inside, the Wildest Battle for the White House.
And I think there are lessons for the Democrats, for
Kamala Harris and other potential candidates, and lessons for the
Republicans because sometimes when you win, there are things you
could have done better, and sometimes when you lose, you
(30:24):
did some good stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, we're going to take another break here for our
radio listeners. This is Deadline DC with Brad Bannon. I
of course, and Brad Bannon, no one else would step
up to take the job. My gifts in this half
hour are Amy Paonnas in the Hill and Jonathan Allen
(30:47):
from NBC News, who are here to talk about their
great new best selling book on the twenty twenty four campaign, Fight.
(31:08):
Welcome back to Deadline d C with Brad Bannon. I
want to thank Welcome back our radio listeners, especially if
you want to watch the show as well as listen
to it. You can watch it at Facebook dot com
front Slash, Deadline d C with Brad Bannon front Slash Videos,
(31:31):
or on YouTube at YouTube dot com front Slash at
Deadline DC, or on Twitter at Twitter dot com front
Slash Brad Bannon. Let's let's try this. I want to
(31:53):
follow up my question about Harris. Who do you think
of the other Democrats players to watch in terms of
a twenty twenty eight presidential race. We've all we've already
talked about Kamala Harris. Who are some of the other
likely possibilities?
Speaker 2 (32:15):
It's a huge bench. I think Gavin Newsom, the governor
of California and John and I just sat with him
the other day. I think Gretchen Witmer wes Moore, AOFC
is making some headlines lately with her rallies and getting
some a lot of interest. Pete buddhaj Edge, I think
(32:36):
there there's a there's going to be a lot of
interest for a lot of.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Different Shapiro Shapiro.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania. I haven't heard his name
a lot, but I'd be surprised if you don't hear
a little a little bit at least the Suruban Diego
and Arizona, the new senator from there.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Okay, Now, trying to figure out what's going to happen
in twenty on the Republican side is a little tricky.
The President has says that, you know, there are ways
which he could design running for a third term. And
again I don't know how that is. We should get
(33:17):
a constitutional skyllar on the show. Maybe he or she
can explain that to me. It's unclear to me. But
let's say that Donald Trump doesn't run for re election.
Who do you think that big players are on the
Republican side. I know they have Trump twenty twenty eight
hats out now and I saw Donald Trump wearing one
(33:41):
the other day. Is that a sign?
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yeah? I would take him seriously. You know, I don't
know that he will find a way to do it.
I don't know, But like Donald Trump wants power. We
know he's run for president three times. He lost the presidency,
he came back to run for it again after having
held it. You know, we haven't seen that since you
know Cleveland Harrison Cleveland back in the nineteenth century. So
(34:09):
I don't doubt for a minute that he wants to
be president after January twenty, twenty twenty eight. If he
is not somebody who is running for president, I think
you look first at the Vice president jd Vance, who
has done everything he can to be close to the magabase.
But I think it'll be a little more open than that.
I don't think Ron DeSantis will ever give up his
dream of wanting to be president. He's the governor of Florida.
(34:30):
So I would look at the Republican governor's bench and
look around and say, I don't know, maybe Brian Kemp
from Georgia. There's certainly any number of Republican governors that
will look at it, maybe some senators, maybe Ted Cruz
wants to run again. Josh Holly from Missouri, Tom Cotton
from Arkansas.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Okay, let me ask you this, what is your assessment
of Donald Trump's of the Democratic response to the first
one hundred days of Trump's presidency. It seems to me that,
you know, and this goes back to a point we
(35:08):
talked about earlier. Trump is has a cult following which
is strongly united behind him. I think there's some comfort
among the Americans for bringing back you know, the good,
you know the nineteen fifties. Every time. That's a lot
(35:30):
of times when I think see Donald Trump, I think
of that show All in the Family and that song
Archie Bunker sings at the beginning when men were men.
We could use a man like Herbert Hoover again. Okay,
that's the last time I sing on the show. First
and last time. And I don't think my senses that
(35:56):
Democrats have been divided in their response. One group of Democrats,
and I would guess that very much. Bernie Standers and
AOC have honed on on economic issues and the way
of as a way of reversing the financial decline of
(36:22):
hot pressed middle class families. There are other Democrats who
talk more about immigration and threats to democracy. Just generally,
what do you think of the democratic response such as
it is to Donald Trump's first one hundred days.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I mean, it's been all over the place, and I
think that's what's frustrating a lot of Democrats right now,
including people like Avin Newsom. You know, they want to
see something different. They think that the AOC Bernie tour,
for example, is a good thing, but there needs to
be more in that. We saw in twenty seventeen when
(37:02):
Democrats were the Party of the resistance didn't really work
so well in their favor. I mean, they did well
in the midterms, but you know, I don't think you
can still just continue to be the party of the resistance.
Elections are about the future. People want to hear that
you have a plan, and right now Democrats don't have
a plan.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Okay, And well I should bring this up too. Mate.
Silver was on some show a couple of weeks ago
and they asked him, I think it was might have
been Morning Joe asked him who he thought would be
the Democratic nominee, and he said, Alexander Cortez Ocazo. Could
(37:48):
you react to that? Is that is really an option?
Speaker 3 (37:53):
I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know
for sure, so I would hesitate to say no about anything.
I would just say we're a long way away. And
she has she, like all the other candidates, potential candidates,
has a number of challenges, hers, not least of which
you know, she's she's definitely not in her late seventies,
(38:13):
but fairly young and fairly liberal. And I you know,
we would just watch a campaign in which Kamala Harris
is you know, on the record positions were used against
her pretty effectively by the Trump campaign, and so it'll
be interesting to see whether Democrats decide, hey, we're gonna
go with with somebody who has this sort of you know,
(38:34):
extreme for the party set of views and go fight
on that ground, or perhaps fight on different ground.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Let's let me ask you this. Despite the fact he
was a very unpopular president and he clearly made some mistakes,
I have a soft spot in my heart for Joe Biden.
I can't help myself. And it seems to me that
(39:03):
even though he's in disrepute right now, he may have
a legacy down the line. Despite his failures. He got
the United States involved in the fight against climate change,
(39:24):
and although Trump's trying to reverse that, I'd like to
think that if we win the fight against climate change,
it will be because Joe Biden started the fight. It
also seems to me his other legacy he was trying
to innovate the American economy, you know, rebuilding, intrastructure, tech innovation.
(39:49):
Am I just being crazy here or will Joe Biden
Historians treat Joe Biden better than current observers do.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
It's a very tricky question, Brad, and I think We're
still sorting that out right now. I do think that
he didn't do himself any favors with his response to
the you know, in the way he in which he
handled himself on the campaign and in the final days
(40:21):
of his campaign. I think a lot of people in
the party are blaming him right now for that.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah, Brad, I think that I think, you know, similarly
to Ruth Bader Ginsburg. A lot of Democrats love Ruth
Bader Ginsburg, and they loved her for a long time,
but they are still mad at her, yeah, for not
knowing when to step aside. And I think that Biden
will continue to have the appreciation of Democrats for the
many things he did before not choosing to step aside,
(40:52):
but for not choosing to opt out of a second
term run in the first place, and then the way
he handled himself after the debate, fighting truth and nail
to stay in. I don't think that's going to be
helpful to his legacy.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Okay. I want to thank our guests today, Amy Parnis,
Senior national political correspondent for The Hill, and Jonathan Allen,
national politics reporter for NBC News. I also want to
thank my intrepid executive producer Mark Grimaldi, who makes sure
(41:32):
the show runs on time and stays online. Stay tuned.
We'll be back soon with more of Deadline DC with
Brat Bannon. Missed the next show At your own peril
or you'll never forget yourself. I'm Brat Bannon signing off.
(41:52):
We'll be back together before you know it.
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