October 21, 2024 • 66 mins
Sponsor: GFUEL Use code RMTS at Checkout Discover support and healing after losing a baby during pregnancy in this powerful podcast. We discuss miscarriage, stillbirth, and pregnancy loss, offering insights into coping with grief, emotional recovery, and finding hope. With expert advice and personal stories, this episode provides comfort for anyone affected by pregnancy loss. Learn how to manage grief, connect with others, and begin the healing process. Tune in for compassionate guidance, emotional support, and helpful resources for miscarriage recovery and pregnancy loss. #shorts #mental health #podcast #clips
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the second episode of The Lonely Road. We
are here to join you on your journey to heal
and become a better human. Many of you may know
me from my job or my other podcast. This is
going to be a very different show though. We will
be going on a deep dive of brief mental health
and showing you how to better yourself, whether it's stats
or stories, or just going into all of it in depth.
(00:23):
After dealing with the trauma that I'm currently dealing with,
which is what this show this episode is about, with
my girlfriend, I looked at her and told her I
want to use this pain and the struggle to help
others dealing with similar things, or give them kind of
a voice to be able to actually sound off and
feel like they're not alone. So half of the money
that this podcast makes, whether it's sponsorships or your guys' donations,
(00:44):
they will be going to a charity or somebody in need.
Whenever those funds become available, we'll start telling you guys
more about those things as well. This show is brought
to you by g Fuel. Used cart of rmts at
checkout for twenty percent off kJ.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
How are you doing, I'm doing all right, I am caj.
Some of the people that come here might know me
from TikTok. However, this is definitely something new, something exciting
that we're both doing on our own journeys and healing
and betterment patterns. So there's literally one day. I wanted
(01:21):
to bring this up real quick. There's literally one day
for everything these days. This one falls along the topic
we discussed and November tenth, I guess was World Mental
Health Day?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
October tenth, That's what.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I meant October tenth. I had November written down for
whatever reason. But everyone and I know suffers from something,
you know, whether it's physical or whether it's mental, and
usually the physical turns into mental after a while anyway,
for whatever reason. So it's interesting that people walk paths
(01:54):
and see people every day that are suffering, but they
don't know how they can help. What can you do
in your everyday dealings? And it's really just as easy
expressing gratitude and empathy towards yourself and others, prioritizing that
self care, rest being able to rely on a source
(02:14):
of support or be a reliable source of support.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And I think that first thing is something that a
lot of people thoroughly struggle with entirely. Yeah, they do
not want to give anybody their flowers because they're afraid
they're not going to get theirs. Therefore, they just put
their hands up and they don't give anybody credit unless
they're being applauded by everybody. Yeah, and that's it's the
scary and sad thought for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And it's one of the things that I've learned recently
is to give flowers while people are still here. And
that's very, very important, and it's very equally vital that
when you're checking in with other people that you're also
checking in with yourself, giving you and yourself the same
grace that you're sending to other people.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Now, I do want to say this because I didn't
get a chance to say this last episode. I do
want to put a trigger warning, but I don't necessarily
fully agree with them on a lot of these episodes.
If we're talking about death and stuff like this, guys,
it's going to be a hard conversation. It's going to
be a hard in depth kind of storytelling half an
hour to an hour. These are going to be hard
(03:23):
to listen to. Is are going to be anecdotes and
things that you could take out of it. Absolutely, But
if it's going to affect you to the point where
you can't listen right now or at all or this episode,
come back next week. It's absolutely okay. Drop the like,
show us that you care, show us that you want
to support, subscribe, do all of the normal podcast things.
But some of these topics are heavy, some of them
(03:44):
are hard. But make sure that we don't fall out
of your subboxes or your podcast feed, because that stuff
can happen, and you might not know that we upload
next week because you didn't interact with last week or
this one or whatever. Even if you don't want to
listen to the topic, make sure to interact because and
you don't lose us.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, you need to take a break. Take
a break. And I also encourage all of you to
have open and honest discussions about mental health like we're
trying to do here, to show love, compassion, and respect
to yourselves and the people you interact with on a
daily basis.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, and with this topic, it's changed a lot of
how I've kind of seen exactly how I've grown in
the past three years. So I'm going to give you
a little bit of backstory, and obviously it's probably a
little too much. At almost four years ago. Now, me
and my previous wife separated in January, it would be
(04:38):
four years and we just recently got a divorce and
all of that finalized and everything else, and it's been
a really, really hard time, and I've had to rebuild
back my entire support system because she dealt with BPD,
which is dealing with narcissism and a whole bunch of
other shit all at the same time. And I was
(04:58):
kind of disconnected from every whether that was a family member,
whether that was friends, whether that was even people that
I saw as like siblings. Everybody was gone.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Everybody was.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And then I developed my relationship with my girlfriend, who's
one of the most sweet and kind people in the world,
and she's been by my side through all of it,
Like since like month three, she's been by my side.
And since that point she's been talking about, oh, I
want a baby. I've never been able to feel those feelings.
I've never been able to do that. And we finally
(05:34):
fully got together and were together and she ended up
pregnant and we were so excited. Was it scary, Yeah,
because she's never been in that place before. She didn't
understand what those thought processes were or how those things
were going to happen. She was unsure, right, She didn't
(05:56):
know what she was feeling, She didn't know what she
was dealing with.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
She was just scared, understandably so so about she was
twenty weeks so we went to her appointment literally week
or two before that, and she was giving me all clear,
everything was good.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
They checked the baby's heart rate, they checked everything, nothing
was wrong, asked how she was doing. Her cramps slowly
started slowing down, Her morning sickness started slowing down, she
started improving it.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It was great.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
And then she woke me up a month ago early
in the morning, she's like, theab I'm having. Her cramps
kicked up to a level that just weren't seen before,
and to me, like dealing with my ex wife's miscarriages
and stuff like that, you know, those things happen. My
wife dealt with severe cramps and severe problems with her
last pregnancy with our baby, and my girlfriends had cramps
(06:53):
this entire time, so we couldn't really take it as
something that was big or different or anything like that.
It was like, hey, you need anything, She's like, yeah,
she grabbed me this and this, and I kind of
gave her whatever she needed at that point, and she's like,
we're going to lay back down. I guess she went
and took a shower and she started miscarrying and we
lost the baby. So she wakes me back up again,
(07:17):
and the miscarriage didn't happen yet, and I was like,
just get into the bathroom. Get to the bathroom. I'll
get you water, I'll get you taken care of. I'll
take my meds that way where we're able to do
whatever we need to do today. And I'm, you know,
somewhat clear headed that I am okay, because my ADHD
is a fucking bitch somedays. And we got my daughter
(07:40):
off the school, we got my mom woking up, she
was able to come over here, and she ended up
having to drive my girlfriend to to the hospital. With
my neck injury, I'm not able to drive as much
as I probably should be able to at thirty years old,
but hopefully it heals and starts getting a little bit
better here at some point. But she was a fucking
(08:05):
rock star the entire time. She was in pain, but
she wasn't. She wasn't so disconnected from what reality was,
that everything was like the entire world was crashing. The
only thing that she wanted was me. All day, my
mom just kept telling me, Oh, she's asking for you.
She wants you to be okay, and that's as far
(08:27):
as she knows. She doesn't know that I wasn't okay
all day. I was sitting right here where I am
right now for about a good forty five minutes an hour,
and I calmed myself down. I figured I would have
to clean up the bathroom because she ended up miscarrying
not all the toilet, but in the bathroom itself and
(08:48):
everything else. So I was like, fuck, got to keep
the dogs downstairs, like trying to separate everything and kind
of just compartmentalize my feelings. I cleaned up our bedroom,
got everything taken care of there, came downstairs, and I
started having a panic attack. I was on the phone
with my aunt. There's another one like my mom just
always there all the time, whenever I need her, regardless
(09:08):
of what's going on.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
She will be there.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And I just I couldn't grasp what I had to do,
what I didn't have to do at that point. But
about five minutes after I got on the phone with
my aunt. I got a message from my mom. Can
you send me pictures of the baby? They want to
make sure everything's out because the baby didn't end up
(09:32):
going with her because her getting to the hospital was
number one. Everything got all fucked up. So they're like,
can you send pictures. After you said that you took
pictures of Brett the other day, I was like, fuck,
I know that pain because I did it.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah, I did it. I had to walk upstairs.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I just I just walked down stairs after having a
panic attack because I was like, okay, I have to
clean this up. And I put a paper towel over
top of the towel that he was laying in and
stuff like that, and I had a panic attack. I
came downstairs and started shaking like I couldn't I couldn't
grasp reality, and uh my mom called no. My mom
(10:21):
messaged me, hey, you don't have to clean anything up.
If anything, I'll take care of it. Don't worry about it.
I've got you. I was like okay, and then five
minutes later got another message. We're not allowed to touch anything
the corner and the police will be arriving soon.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh yeah, I remember getting a message from your mom
about it all. We started talking about it, and then
she told me that the corner and the police were
on the way up to your house, and hit of
my stomach just rocks. I couldn't even imagine.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
And it's not even just it's like it's a one
singular kind of thing. Yeah, because I was getting told
all of the questions that they were asking for the
entire time, I was getting told, Oh, well, they're asking
if you're abusive, They're asking if you were drinking, They're
asking if she's doing drugs. They're actively asking all of
these things because they don't understand and they don't know.
(11:21):
So when I heard the police were coming, I was like, oh, fuck,
what what exactly is going to happen?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Now?
Speaker 1 (11:28):
What exactly do they see this as? Is is there
an active problem that I'm just completely oblivious to.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, that's where I was.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Outside.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I sat outside waiting for my daughter. That the cops
and everybody were supposed to be here hours before. My
girlfriend got to the hospital at like nine, nine thirty
in the morning. Nobody showed up here until two thirty
to forty. No, it was like three thirty, and my
daughter gets off the bus from school at four. I
(12:00):
looked at them and said, I need this to be
done before my daughter fully gets home. Like we can't,
we can't do this. I'm not doing this, Tarr. She
doesn't need to see this shit. They treated the house
like a crime scene. They told us we're not allowed
in the house at all. They didn't finish anything before
(12:21):
Mattie at home. They just left it. They told me
that I had to be outside. They told me that
when she got here, I had to keep her outside
and as soon as I had somebody that was available
to pick her up, they needed to come get her
and get her out of here now, which didn't cure
my anxiety at all of well, anything could be Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
That could. That's alarming because you're like, well, am I
in trouble? Why can't why can't she be here?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Like honestly, if if she needs anybody, it's going to
be me. Like if she needs to figure out what
the fuck's going on in the common all of this,
it's going to be me that shows her that. So
my aunt, who I haven't talked to in like six
seven years, came and picked her up because they didn't
(13:10):
want my sister to pick her up and she left,
and I had to fill out a full deposition of
every single minute of the entire morning, where Brie was,
where I was, what happened, Why we didn't call nine
one one, which isn't a normal thing that I've ever
heard for a miscarriage or a fetal death at all.
(13:32):
It was go to the hospital, it gets taken care of.
Yobi tells you exactly what to do when you call them.
They told me to go to the hospital. My answer
is to get her to the hospital as soon as possible,
and to get her to a hospital that is actually good.
Where we live, there's two hospitals that are absolute shit
stains on the side of fucking healthcare. I did not
(13:55):
want her at either of those. So my job is
to make sure that she's at a good one. So
after all of that, they're like, Okay, you're fine, everything's done,
everything's taken care of. They took the baby to go
get cremated in the in the corner van and everything else.
(14:15):
But it was so hard just to kind of grasp
all of that and kind of know things were going
to be okay. When we're filling out police reports that
our pages.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
And pages long, crazy.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Most people can't remember what the fuck they had for breakfast,
let alone full minute by minute breakdown of the day.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Seriously insane. I just couldn't believe it blew my mind
that the police were going up there, Like I couldn't
even imagine what else could have happened, Like there had
to have been something more than your mother was telling me.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
But no, Like they went through my room, they went
through both of the kids rooms. They went through the
bathroom upstairs where everything happened, which is what I assumed
they were going to do. They were going to go
through the bathroom and make sense it took my medication
out of the cabinet and took pictures of it. They
took pictures of my entire house. I had the beagle
(15:10):
locked up in the bottom bathroom because I was like, okay,
would make sense for them to make sure that they
don't have problems with a dog. Leave a dog in
the room where it's taken care of. The dog was
out roaming. It's like, guys, I tried to make it
easy on you. I tried to do whatever you needed
me to do. Like you're lucky I don't have an
(15:31):
asshole dog that's going to.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Eat you crazy. I just.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
That situation was not hand ill gently at all.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
It didn't seem it. It didn't seem that at all.
It just seemed like it was everything from all sides
all at once.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Like we're dealing with the death of a baby, and
you're looking at everybody like we're every single person in
this situation is a fucking criminal, right, Like the level
of these questions, the level of all this shit just
just fucking sucks. And so bring and my mom finally
(16:17):
get back and me and her are sitting outside and
we're just talking. My dad, my stepdad, came inside and
he's like, don't worry about the dishes.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I got you.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I'm gonna try and handle as much as I can
so that way you guys aren't dealing with this shit.
He always does, so thankful for that. He's fucking fantastic.
He might not know how to have the conversation of
I'm gonna help you, but he knows that nobody likes
fucking doing dishes, and he'll hop right in without even
being asked and help in whatever way he can. So
(16:51):
me and my mom are sitting outside and the mirrors
of this situation and the mirrors of my brother passing
started hitting me in the badly, and I think you
much like my mom. It's very very easy to see
that my mom's life and my life are very very
very easy to mirror each other. They're all very very
(17:14):
very similar. And that to me hit me in the
heart in a way that I didn't expect it to.
It's so hard. I can't even say part of it
that mirror is it? But it's so hard to just
(17:37):
grasp all of this after dealing with it as a
child and now dealing with it as an adult. It's
hard to kind of see exactly what you're supposed to
fucking do because it all feels disconnected and I'm all
not really sure exactly what I'm supposed to do and
how I'm supposed to go about this, because it's not normal.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
No, it's definitely not normal. It's not normal how it
was handled. It's not normal to begin with that it happened.
It's not normal to have it held with such jagged hands.
It's not normal to feel like a criminal when your
(18:17):
girlfriend just lost your child, and.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I told them, I was like, I understand, I understand
the question because I've looked into so many things. Asking
the question should never be wrong, but you should treat
it as it's gray, not like you have to make
sure that somebody is not guilty first, right, right. So
(18:42):
to me, the first thing that hurt really fucking bad,
and it was the first thing that clicked into my
head after I saw my mom was my entire childhood.
And I'm sure you heard this millions of times. She
struggled with this lot, and she looked at me and
my sisters and said, I want you guys to have
(19:04):
a baby for each one that I couldn't have, or
each one that had a problem, or all of those things.
And I'm worrying it slightly different so that way she
doesn't sound jagged and harsh as well. But I had
one for every single one that she missed, including the death.
Ed That part hurt. It hurt realizing that the words
(19:29):
that she spoke at five, six and seven years old
fully came true. I had a nicku baby, My last
baby before this was in the nicku for a week.
Then I had the baby that passed too, So I
had one every single way she did, and that really
(19:53):
fucked me up. It sucks because it's not just the death.
It brings back all of the PTSD and trauma from
my childhood. It brings back all of those feelings of
why the fuck me, why the fuck this situation, Why
the fuck do we have to deal with this. We're
good people, we don't deserve this. I looked at my
(20:18):
mom and just said, I want you to understand something,
and you're one of the few people in the world
that can understand this. And this is how raw that
I want this show to be, and I want you
guys to see the rawness. I looked at her and said,
just no, I love you, but fuck you, because I
felt like she spoke this into existence almost, And it's hard.
(20:43):
It's genuinely hard to kind of look at all this
and not be genuine enough to say, there are so
many things that a few people have said about me specifically,
and every single one of them have come true. Not
because I seeked it out, but because people think that
that is some sort of thing to say, and it
(21:06):
somehow became a destination or destiny of what was going
to happen kJ What did my grandma say all the
time about me? What was I going to do the family?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I mean, that was always what I heard.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Who's the one that got everybody into a room on
Friday night? Ye, who's the one to be able to
talk to anybody who hasn't talked to in years? Then
my mom clicks with that. Our lives mirror each other
so fucking much. And it's so hard not to look
(21:45):
at this shit and think of it as these are
the things she couldn't get past, and I'm now the
one who has to handle them again and try and
pass them and pass anyway that they supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
You have to understand that while doing that, you can't
lay out blame either, because none of this.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I'm not trying to.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I'm not trying to, and I know it comes off
that way and it might feel that way, But I
don't blame anybody for the things that have happened to me.
That's that's entirely my struggles and my happenings. But those mirrors, man,
And I'm sure there's going to be some people in
the comments and some people even kJ might have those
same occurrences in her life. It is really hard not
(22:30):
to realize that things mirror other people that are around you.
And it is fucking hard. And I love my mom.
I love my mom to death, regardless of how many
problems we've had, regardless of the fucked up things that
have happened. I love so many members of my family
in ways that I could not explain to them. Even
(22:51):
when I didn't talk to them, I still cared. But this,
it seems like even in the darkest day, I, the
person dealing with all of this shit, turned on the
light and pulled us out of it. Two days later,
(23:14):
it was a Wednesday. No, it was Thursday. It was
three days later. I woke up, I got all my
stuff ready for work and stuff like that. I told
my girlfriend, I'm not recording my podcast Real Men Talk
Shit this week. I was like, I need a little
bit to be okay. I just need five minutes. I
need I need peace for a little bit. She's like,
(23:36):
that's great. It was like, but I need to do
something with this fire. I need to do something that
is actually going to change the way that this is
supposed to go. And I looked at her and I said,
we could not have gotten through this without struggle, without
(24:00):
ten times more struggle than what we already are, without
our family and the people around us making sure every
single thing that we need is taken care of. And
I cannot say thank you enough for every single person
that has touched me, touch free, or has been a
part of this situation, whether that's kJ and my aunt,
my mom, my sister, all of you guys.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
You guys have helped so fucking much.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, support system in the village is worth more. It's
not just a cliche. It's definitely a part of life
that you need in order to get through.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
I told her, I was like, I want to build
something that impacts people that are dealing with this right now,
just like me and you. Whether if that's fifty dollars
to make sure you have gas to get to the
hospital or two hundred dollars to make sure our cremation happens,
We're just making sure that you have an ear or
somebody that can fucking be there. I don't want people
(25:02):
to feel alone anymore, because I spent way too many
days feeling alone. Nobody deserves to feel that anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It's hard, very beyond, hardy beyond.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It's so hard remembering the stories of what my mom
would tell me about Brett's funeral and that I was
the light that day. I asked, oh, are we having parties?
Like this more often or every day or whatever I said,
just joking around and being a kid. I watched my
(25:52):
baby do the same exact thing on Friday. Yeah, being
in a pizza place and you know, every being around,
but not being a funeral is kind of different. But
there's not one single person that's sitting there hanging out
and trying to be Okay. That Eva didn't you know,
make smile that day too. Yeah, it's so weird and
(26:21):
so cyclical that it's just it is hard not to
see the mirror. It's hard not to just you know,
feel like everything's the same over and over again. There's
only so many outcomes and you just have to get
it right.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yep, there's cycles to be broken. You gotta be the
one to break them, or teach your children how to
be the one to break them. Yeah, that hasn't happened
a lot in the past. People are breaking generational curses
right and left these days, and I applaud everybody who
breaks any kind of generational curse, small or monumental. It's
(27:01):
not an easy feet it's feet.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
It's crazy to believe.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
And I found this step as we were getting ready
to start ten to twenty percent of known pregnancies and
in miscarriage.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
That's that's too many. Yeah, that's that's too many.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
It is.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
And think about it this way, like, how many of
them have a known cause.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
There's not many because you don't know what there's not
many autopsies that are done.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
You know what we were told. And I don't know
if my mom was told the same thing for Brett,
but they told us if we sent him to get
cremated in all the NY they would do an autopsy,
but we would not receive him back.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
So we could either go about our route and have
him cremated, pay for it, and take care of it,
but we will never know what happened or no, what happened,
and never receive our son back.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It's crazy. No, had brib gone to the doctor after that,
after this all happened?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Has she been to the ob the psych what? Yeah? Uh?
They told us that we have to wait a couple.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Months to try or do anything like that. And they
were kind of rough with her even at that appointment.
And that was three days out, that was Wednesday of
that week. And you know, I'm a very questioning kind
of person, right, and this doctor, like I asked three
(28:46):
or four different questions. They're like, well, you need to
get on a prenatal. Okay, if we're putting her on
a prenatal and she's not able to accept full of acid,
that's going to cause her depression to get worse. No,
that's never been founded. Why are you even bringing that up? Yes,
it has been founded. I'm asking because I'm actually genuinely
asking a question, and I'm not some dude who doesn't
(29:08):
know what the fuck he's doing.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I hate doctors that dismiss people as ignorant and unknowing
and dismiss their questions as such. Just healthcare these days.
Is That's a whole different podcast altogether. But that gives
been crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
As we were walking out, it was like, I don't
know how you accept her as your doctor, because anybody
who messages me like that would give me a fucking problem.
You know, I normally don't break any conversation at all,
but I am thoroughly confused. I have nobody in my
(29:47):
phone saved as dad, nobody, and I'm receiving a call
from Dad.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, isn't that weird?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah? Yeah, they'reoughly confused.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Is it a brand new phone?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
No?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Nope, So there might have.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Been had it for No, I received it as a
brand new phone. It's like six months old.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
That just completely took me off guard. And I that's
a whole nother podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
That whole conversation is a whole other podcast. Yes, yeah, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, No,
it's it's crazy now as far as the doctor and
medicine is concerned, and and how rough they were with her,
what were your initial feelings on that. I mean, I know,
being dismissed and and and those feelings. It must have
(30:43):
been maddening.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
But frustrates me because there's so many questions with healthcare now,
regardless of if they're legitimate, questions were not, because there's
a lot of bullshit questions that a lot of people
want to ask that make no fucking sense. But the
way our bodies break down amino acids and stuff like
that is something that nobody really grasps. We learned amino
acids where the things in your DNA, and that's about it.
(31:06):
But yet they af factor your brain chemistry in so
many different ways that people just don't want to grasp.
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
When I went to the therapist, I was like, these
are the symptoms I'm having.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
If you want to.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Question me about BPD, I completely understand. These are the
problems I've had since childhood. Like I'm willing to ask
the question and do whatever you want to do. But
I would rather ask the question and receive no, you're wrong,
or no this is why, then just be completely cut off, dismissed.
My next surgery is completely because I did the research
(31:50):
my next surgery. The doctors didn't want to treat me,
and they didn't believe the rascal At syndrome is a
thing I had to force myself while on workers comp
to a different doctor who actually treated it. And because
it's a vascular and nervous injury, it had to be
a heart surgeon, and they really didn't want to go
(32:11):
from orthopedics to heart surgery. But the only reason that
I was able to is because I could prove probable cause.
If I wasn't that smart, I get this missed, I
pass out at work. How big of a fucking problem
is that?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah? Yeah, the people have to be advocates for themselves
more than they should have to these days because they're
not listened to and.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
The humanities in medicine is gone.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, no, it is in the realm of mental health
that's gotten pretty bad too. I got a story about
my wife and her last counselor that will blow your
blow your minds. So yeah, that's a whole nother story.
Question I have is the resources. Like I understand that
(33:06):
you got, you know, some donations and some help because
you didn't readily have you know, resources available for everything
that you needed to do. But what kind of like
how did you find out what you could do where
to do it? Like where can people find these resources
(33:26):
in their areas?
Speaker 1 (33:28):
So most of those things, like the corner was also
the person that ran the funeral home, and I assume
that that's just kind of like a small town thing
and everything else. But I think that on a larger
scale that probably would be different. As far as everything
else goes, it was kind of straightforward. It was all
(33:50):
just this happens, and that happens, and then this happens,
and so much of it's out of your hands that
it's really kind of hard to be like, well, this
is what I did there and everything else.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
So you were just given our ear It's okay, you
were just basically given your options.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
As far as everything goes, Like after after she was
getting released from the hospital, it was do you want
a funeral? Do you want to hear cut? What was
your question against? That way I can ask you.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
No, it's okay. So basically the coroner led you through
the process of what needed to happen with the actual remains,
and then when you left the hospital or she left
the hospital she got some more information. Is that she
basically she.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Came home and we're like, okay, let's decide on what
we're doing. That way we can kind of be definitive
about this. And I think that was more of a
me led thing than them led thing, Like I was like,
I want answers, I want the availability to step through this.
That way, we can kind of figure out our emotions
in the situation without deal with making choices, because if
(35:03):
we allow our emotions to make choices, we're going to
freeze and then we're going to get stuck, and that's
not how anybody really needs to be.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
No, So when you did make the decision, did you
you just kept in touch with the funeral home the corner.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, I re kept in touch with her almost entirely
over text message and stuff like that. Once again, I
assume that that's more of a small town thing where
it's like, so you were asking a week ago, almost
a week ago now about how to do resources, and
we were talking about that stuff, why we were doing
the show and kind of stuff like that. I don't
(35:39):
remember exactly what your specific question was. What was it
so way I can fully readdress it, because I don't
want to miss something for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
I was just asking, like a lot of people don't
know what to do next, like where did you get
that guidance and did you have to search for it
or was it readily given to you by the people
that were were around you, like the corner emmy cops.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
At A lot of the people that were there to
do things did not help at all. They weren't a
part of it. Yes, and I do want to give
my aunt and my mom credit telling me which way
to go and like, hey, you're going to have to
make these choices. But all of that kind of was
on us. The only thing that we were kind of
(36:24):
told at the end of when the police and the
coroner left, were like, hey, here's my card, call us.
But I couldn't do it because me and my girlfriend
are married. I wasn't allowed to be any part of
anything with the legal paperwork or legal documentation at all,
because essentially they don't have proofs that I'm the dad.
So like, regardless of how secure or how legally together
(36:48):
we are, unless there's a marriage, I have no rights right,
None of it's me. So that part was interesting to me,
was like I'm seeing almost as like a third rate citizen.
I'm so diss connected from this situation that it's not
my situation to have almost.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
And that's that's a level all in its own, a layer,
a whole other layer. Yeah, I can imagine. So you
got most of your information from your family.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah, and kind of just going through the next logical step, like, yeah,
my mom told me to call and be in touch
with the corner. She also told me that, so it
was okay, baby, you have to call the corner and
be on top of this, and if you need any
help and need anything as things go on, I can
help as things go on. But the first few phone
(37:39):
calls I can't be a part of. That's that's not
talk of the second.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Because even if she can't do it, she's still got
to give permission for you to be able.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
To do it exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So she's got to get through those first two or
three phone calls to kind of have the rapport enough
to be like, Zach can handle this, He's okay, and
move on from there, because if not, then I'm kind
of just shit out of luck.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, it's interesting how few resources there
are for people.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I think the inconsistencies in location is probably part of
the problem too, Like even in a small town like ours,
like it's very call this person, do this, do this,
do this, I'll go to the funeral home. It's all
kind of straightforward, like even when I'm like, I got
brea necklace breeze my girlfriend for anybody who doesn't know,
and we offered both the grandmothers. Hey, if you guys
(38:29):
want necklaces with his ashes, let us know and we'll
go get them filled for you. Zero problems, just like
the way you guys have it, because I don't. It
is so weird to try and find the ground of
like what somebody wants, what somebody doesn't want, what is
too much, what is not enough? I don't necessarily know.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, it's it's quite the balancing act. I'll admit that,
absolutely and as another layer to all this, you have
you have three other children that knew about this pregnancy, and.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
We're very We told them about like a month and
a half or so before this.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah, Max, how is that working? Like, as far as
you're grieving and Breeze grieving and then the children's layer
of grief as well, how is that all meshing together?
Speaker 1 (39:19):
So all three of them are very, very different, I think,
And that's kind of the weird thing. Like I remember
my mindset when I was four years old of like
I was sad, but I didn't really realize what was
going on at the same time, like I see a baby,
So it kind of fulfilled the answer. So I don't
necessarily know exactly how Abe's feeling, but boy, is she
(39:39):
really trying her damn hard is to make sure everybody
is laughing.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Everybody's happy. Yeah, that's one thing I noticed, Abo, And you.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Can kind of see that, like, and she was like
that before. She always tries to make me happy. She
always tries to do everything she can to just be
that spark. And it's so as weird as this sounds,
it's so weird to have somebody who wants to feed
off of that same energy you have, like to have
somebody who's just just as sparky, just as like much
(40:08):
of a light as you are.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's really rare. That's really rare.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Like with Nick, you can see that he's hurting, Like
you can see that he's like, I just I don't
know exactly how to feel. You have him listening and
talking with me and Ava when we were talking and
when he said, well, when she asked, well, where's the baby?
Is the baby coming? You see him just cheer out
because like he knows the answer, he knows how this
(40:38):
plays out. But at the same time, like you can't
explain that to a four year old, Like you can
tell it the gentle way, but if you're any more
direct or any any non human, then you're kind of
hurting your kid.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Yeah, that's It's very interesting how your pebble in the
water creates the ripples for the people around you and
everybody in your orbit.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
And Mattie was here. Maddie watched so much of the
stress and the trauma that morning that it's hard to
figure out exactly where she's feeling. Yeah, she's hurting, she
definitely is. She's told me she's hurting, but at the
same time, it's not to the same level I was.
So it's very hard to kind of grasp exactly where
(41:24):
she's at or what she's struggling with, or is she
even struggling at all with this anymore? Is she passed
it now Now that as of today it's been a month,
it's hard. It's hard to kind of grasp exactly where
everybody is because you want to have that transparency, and
I felt like I didn't have that. I felt like
(41:44):
everybody kind of just either wanted to hold something up
in this big, crazy light of nothing is wrong with this,
or we don't talk about it at all.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I think it was more of the ladder. I think that,
you know, talking about it was very very difficult for
your mom particularly, and it was when your mom was
able to get up and life like a human in
(42:16):
the thick of everything. It was tough to talk about
it because that put her right back into the cycle.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
You know. And I'm seeing similar things with Bree and
she's she's been an absolute fucking rock star. I've said
that privately, I've said it publicly. She's been more amazing
than I could ever expect her to be in this situation.
She has done fantastic and she actually she but she
(42:42):
was talking to me earlier about it. She's like, I'm
excited for this episode because I know that you know.
I want to hear your feelings. I want to hear
how you're feeling. I want to I want to hear
what's on your mind because you don't let me in
there all the time because you're afraid it's going to
hurt me. It's like, you care, you care. I see
that you care.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, she does, she does. It's different for you, though,
because you're with somebody that cares also about genuinely about
your well being internally, you know, and not just how
things affect her.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Honestly, I don't think very many people day two or
three out of this situation could here. I want to
turn this into a podcast to help people.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yeah, I want to.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Make money for other people and I want to do
this and I want to I want to shed the
light that we are feeling right now because everybody is
helping us, and bring everybody else up because that's what
people need right now. Yeah, very very few people are like, yes,
you're right, And she stood by me every single second
of that conversation and told me that I was right.
(43:49):
Most people can't.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, it's very, very, very it's very much a blessing
to have that support by your side, specifically when it's
doing something that you need to do for your own
health mentally coping, and being able to pass it forward
to someone else who very well maybe or have gone
(44:12):
through the same type in similar situations.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
And even comparing it to the past situations where we've
had miscarriages with me and my ex wife and stuff
like that. She always told me I was so cold
and I didn't care, and I was so internal and
I couldn't. I think for a lot of men, especially,
it's hard for them to put their feelings into it
because the female wants to hold everything in this light
(44:39):
that's either so drastic or so disconnected from reality that
if you put your feelings in there, you're either multiplying
their feelings or they feel like you're dismissing them. And
it's so hard to kind of get across exactly how
I'm feeling. Even in this situation where I'm finally kind
of saying I feel this or I feel that, it's
(45:01):
hard to grasp it really is, because I don't think
a lot of people really kind of face that feeling
of oh I can I can say this, where I
can do this, It's not a part of the conversation
in most people's opinion.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
I don't think no.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
I think it's hard for men in particular to show
emotion through, you know, not just showing the emotion and
expressing the emotion themselves, but allowing them to help themselves
to be vulnerable in front of their partner or in
front of the children, and showing that weakness and that
vulnerability side of them.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
That's got to be This is where the hot take
parts of me come in, and this is where it's
going to be interesting. I think a lot of the
time that men are vulnerable with their wives. If the
wife isn't the right one, it will damage your marriage entirely.
And it's a very very hard fine line to fucking find.
Women will either accept that you're going to be emotional
(45:58):
and hurting and help you deal with it, or they
don't want anything to do with it and they will
bash you over the head with it for the rest
of your relationship. And it's damn here impossible to figure
it out.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Unfortunately, both both and other people like but both those
kind of people and other people also exist. I do
believe that that's that's that's all.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
It's hard because like we're sitting here talking about grief
and depression and everything else. But it's like from a
man's perspective, men are only given so many emotions by
their mothers. Men are only men are only given so
many emotions by their upbringing and ways to show them.
Our sadness, our tears is anger. Everybody doesn't understand why
(46:48):
it's anger, but it's we're told that we have to
stand up because we're a boy and we can't cry.
We're treated like shit when we do cry, or when
we're depressed. I got left, I got cheated when I
was depressed. So like as a whole, it's very hard
to show those emotions, whether it's vulnerability or just kind
of standing on those grounds. It's hard for that not
(47:11):
to become anger because it's one of the only things
that we show and people actually respect or honor.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah, grief and emotions are very intertlined. I think in
particular anger is there's the five stages of grief, and
that's probably something I probably want to say first.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
You know, you have the.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Sadness, the guilt, the anger, shock, numbness, helplessness. It all
leads to depression and worse if it's not addressed.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
And I was having I was having that conversation with
pretty earlier because she's at that point where she just
everything is her fault, everything, And I told her, I
was like, if you keep if you keep turning this
into a mismatched salad or one big knot of everything
is your fault, babe, you will never heal from this ever.
(48:07):
And not because it's something you can heal from, not
because it's something that you can actually shine a light
on and untwine and be okay, but because you have
to be okay at some point tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
And if you make everything intertwined with how you feel,
you the only way that you can unravel all of
that is kind of devaluing your feelings.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
That sucks.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Well, you know, you don't have to devalue your feelings
as much as feel them, sit with them, figure out
what they're about, but don't live there.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
I think what a lot of people do is like
they'll say I feel this or I feel shitty because
of this, I am shit, and then that will intertwine
with their grief and their repulsiveness towards the situation, and
then that will go into their guilt for something that
they could have done three weeks before that changes the
entire thing, and then that changing that entire thing, then
(49:07):
they feel guilty that they didn't do it, so then
they feel shitty about themselves, and then they'll be like, oh, well,
I had this injury in twenty twenty twelve where I
broke my toe and now I can't walk street and
that's the reason why I couldn't lift that thing, and
me lifting that thing caused everything. And then it just
becomes a shit on me party of like I'm going
to destroy myself and that's the only way I can heal.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Stop.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
Stop, look at it at face level. Instead of combining
these fifty fucking things down the road. The fifty things
down the road have nothing to do with this.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Well, that's why I mean, don't live there like you're
going to feel a lot of things, but you have
to understand that. Excuse me, there is a grief process
that you need to go through, and if you get
stuck in any part of that grief process, it's going
to get more complicated. That's where I'm stuck. I'm stuck
(49:59):
in the grief process. You know, you have the five
stages of grief being anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. So
within those as well, you have a plethora of other
emotions that happen within each five of these, you know,
So you she is in one of those stages of
(50:22):
anger or I'm sorry, in one of those stages. Yeah,
and she's diving deeper into you know, if you're in
a denial, you are going to avoid, maybe you're confused,
maybe there's some kind of shock or fear in that denial.
When you get past that, you have your anger, which
(50:43):
is the frustration, the irritation, and the anxiety of it all,
and then you have the bargaining part of it. Or
you're struggling, you're struggling to find a reason, you're struggling
to find the meaning, and you're reaching out to others,
you're telling your story.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
And in this situation, just like bread, just like so
many things in this specific thought process, whether it's pregnancy, miscarriage,
or still birth, or or even death after birth, and
you have a kid who's a couple of years old,
there is no fucking answers, no, no, like, even if
(51:19):
you're given a reason of like, oh, well, this happened
and then that happened. If you look at what the
answer is why this happened, regardless of it it's this
situation or others, that reason will impact and change your
entire life. Stop looking for it, because you don't know
what the fuck you're gonna find when you keep flipping
over rocks.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
No, that could be.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
That could be a mental illness, that could be a
health problem, that could be zero reason. It could just happen.
And the fact that you're looking for an answer to
find a boogeyman will always cause you pain because then
you can never find an answer exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
You have to move forwards through them. And even if
you're not finding answers, some sort of resolve, you know,
some sort of resolve to help you move the next stage.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
She told me this this crazy thing, and I might
get the stats slightly wrong. I'm not going to google
it because I don't want to type in the in
the microphone. But she told me, like sixty five seventy
five percent of relationships in these situations end just end.
Whether that's one person just not being able to heal,
(52:32):
whether that's somebody going out of the relationship, whether they're
not working as a team, it just destroys itself because
the relationship is different.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
Now. It's scary.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
It's fucking scary to think that so many people kind
of lose their entire self worth, They lose their entire
system of backing, They lose everything because they just want
to destroy, not even necessarily destroyed. They just can't put
in the effort to do today.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
No, it's a it's a more exaggerated form of the
peaks and valleys that come with a normal marriage. But
you have this other huge explosion that happened, and it's
it's more exaggerated. It's a more exaggerated form of that.
I think I can't find any on a quick search,
I couldn't find any recent stats. But I did find
(53:32):
twenty twelve Center for Disease Control showing that the divorce
rate among couples that suffered the loss of a child
is about sixteen percent. And that was that that's a long.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Time ago, so fifty percent of marriage, Like most people
do not deal with miscarriage or death anyway, So sixteen
percent of all divorces are because of a miscarriage or
a child's death. That's twenty percent. That's what twelve percent
of all relationships end because of miscarriage or childhood death.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yeah, it completely shatters.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
That's just quick mass, but yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
It completely shatters a relationship. Can completely shatter a relationship
if you're not willing to not only individually grieve, but
grieve as a couple and give the grace to the
other human.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
And I think, although, like so many of this, so
much of the situation was shit, I do need to
give my mom flowers that specific situation. She didn't give up.
They looked at it, they reassessed everything. I completely understand
that there were parts of that situation where it might
have been the end, but as a whole, it didn't
fucking end. They kept going like they didn't handle the
(54:50):
situation properly, but they were okay with each other. And
that's so much of this situation is like, you can't
hate going upstairs and going a bed, You can't hate
looking at the person that's across the fucking table. You
can't resent that person. And those feelings are so easy
to get to because you feel like they caused it
(55:12):
or this reason or that reason, and that's not how
you should look at things ever.
Speaker 5 (55:17):
Right, right, it's r yeah, it's it's it's heavy.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
It's very heavy. It's very heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy topic.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
So you have some tips here for coping with anger
and grieving. Yeah, and I have one that's on here
that uh is not is not connected with any of these,
but it's the biggest one to me is be kind
of people who can't accept it and learn that there's
people that you have to put walls around too, secure
(55:56):
because not every single person in your life is going
to accept being a punching bag on bad days. Not
because you want everybody to be a punching bag, but
it's being said in the extreme way for a reason.
There are people that you can pick up that phone
and call and talk to and tell every single problem
(56:17):
that you're dealing with right now and just fucking be
angry and say in the most aggressive and harsh way
and they won't think anything. But you don't want to
go upstairs and do the same thing to your daughter. No,
you don't want to go upstairs and do the same
thing to your mom. No, you don't want to do
(56:39):
the same thing and ruffle everybody's feathers around you and
that is one of the hardest thing. Like, we could
go through all of these coping with anger and grieving,
but all of them are so much more dictated towards
females that it's hard to grasp. Most guys get their
anger out by fucking saying it or just letting it burn.
(57:03):
Letting it burn is a lot of just doing the
fucking shit and keeping your fucking mouth shut. And I
don't think females fully grasp or understand that at all,
because if I keep my mouth shut, nobody's hurt. I'd
rather hurt every single day than anybody in this fucking
house hurt.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
Understood. Valid, But you also now have the type of
relationship where you don't have.
Speaker 3 (57:30):
To do that.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Some days you may, some days you may, but you
don't always have to do that because you now have
somebody that you can speak with about you how you're feeling,
and wants to know how you're feeling, and is inquiring
about how you're feeling about a situation where when this
happened to you in the past, it's basically, this is
(57:51):
this is how I'm feeling, and if I hear any
of your feelings, it's just gonna come out of it.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
Yeah, right, and it's really hard to see where that changed.
Is that a me thing change where I'm just like, Okay,
I'm going to tell you plainkly what I'm feeling. And
that's different which.
Speaker 3 (58:09):
It might be.
Speaker 1 (58:09):
I think it's a both, or it's just a person
difference or what I think it's both.
Speaker 2 (58:13):
I think the personality between Brie and it are completely different.
I think, yeah, I think there are polar opposites if
you are on a spectrum, and to be honest with you,
I think that there's a lot of empathy that Bree
carries that I don't believe the other really had the
(58:36):
contention for possible. You know, it's just a and also
within yourself. You've grown exponentially over the last few years,
so particularly you know. So it's it's also a want
to better yourself, a want to better the way that
(58:56):
you communicate this time around, so that you're not feeling
like you're doing things wrong, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (59:03):
And I think, honestly, and this might be a good
one to do after the next one. We film is
a look back at the past three years of how
I for years now have changed and look back at
things and kind of give some of you guys a
step by step guide of this is what I dealt
with this is how I used to deal with it,
(59:24):
and this is how I've changed me.
Speaker 2 (59:27):
Yeah, we've both exponentially changed, So we can bounce back
and forth with those stories. It's going to be. It's
it's an amazing transformation when you when you allow yourself
to look inward rather than pointing the finger outward at
other people. When you appoint that finger inward first, and
you have the courage to do that, your your whole
world changes because you're able to start with you. And
(59:52):
that's in then outside world.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
It's such a weird thing, Like when I started feeling
all of this stuff after everybody left that night, after
the cops left, after all the family left, I stopped
answering Bree's best friend. I stopped answering Bree's mom. I
didn't have to worry about anybody other than Brie, Maddie
and me. I believe myself, what could I have done better?
(01:00:20):
Should I have lifted that soda pack? And that's the
biggest problem of the entire day, or and I beat
myself up more than anybody genuinely probably should, But I'd
rather look inside and tell myself I'm wrong. I'd rather
tell myself, hey, do this better, change this, affect this
(01:00:41):
because it's it's the start of how to fix the
fucking problem.
Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
And you can't start fixing anything without pointing inwards first.
It's always, it's always, always important to allow your feelings,
whatever they may be, to cope with your grief. Everybody
copes differently. There is not any set path for grief.
Suppressed feelings lead to unresolved grief, which I'm the poster
(01:01:06):
child for unresolved grief, depression, anxiety, chronic physical symptoms as well.
You know, it's very interesting to see different people and
how different people communicate their feelings, and it's equally important
for maintaining those healthy relationships around you and how you
communicate those feelings.
Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
There's a big one on this list, and I know
we didn't fully go over every single little bit of it,
but so one that sticks out to me. Tell others
how short fused you are, and apologize if you stepped
over the line.
Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Yep. Yep.
Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
It's with the boundaries you have in your relationships. Also
understand that if somebody steps on your toes it's not
your job just sit there and bitch and complain about
being triggered if somebody pisses you off when you're on
one and you're pissed off and you're dealing with shit
that's not other people's problem to deal with, if it's
(01:02:05):
just a youth thing, or if it's a grief thing
like this, or or if you're tearing every single thing
a fucking new asshole because you're on one today. If
something triggers you, it's not their fault.
Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
It's yours.
Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
It's your responsibility. Yeah, yours. Triggers are not anybody else's responsibility.
They're your responsibility to handle.
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
With so many people nowadays, I think that that shit
needs to be said because there's a lot of people
that want to stand up and be like, I'm triggered.
Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Okay, what are you going to do about it? What
are you going to do about it? Because you can't
point outwards your whole life?
Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
You know, you want to get ahole?
Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
No, you know, and and and in anger. I feel
like anger is at least for me, I can't speak
for everyone, but I know for me, anger was a
very center motion, uh throughout my grief until just recently,
and you want to get the feelings out to avoid
(01:03:06):
the pentup emotion, but you want to make sure you're
not throwing daggers at those you love in that moment
of pain. You know I did that with my father.
You know, I totally unleashed online and should not have.
You know, things I could say are not equivalent to
things that I should say. I should have handled the
(01:03:27):
situation differently, and my anger made my emotion takeover.
Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
You know, it's weird that responsibility you have as an adult,
and I think that it takes time for everybody to
kind of learn that.
Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
Oh yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
It's just so weird and such a disconnect that I
think everybody kind of feels. You'll feel like you can
say something and then be like, oh shit, I wish
I didn't say that. Yeah yeah, but you have to
stand on it because you said it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
You have to stand on it. But like you said,
don't be too proud to circle back and apologize if
you misstepped, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
I think that's one of my biggest growth sections, was
I'm not angry anymore. And I know you had it
in the list of like, well, let's circle it back.
To your mom and kind of show the anger and
everything else. I wasn't angry saying that. I said it
because I wanted to get the feeling out of like
(01:04:27):
you're you're showing me that life is a mirror and
I don't fucking like it, and that that sounds really
fucking childish, and I understand that, but as a whole,
when you try so fucking hard to bring yourself and
bring your family out of the the shithole that you're
starting at, and no matter how far you get, everything
(01:04:51):
still looks like a fucking mirror, it's hard to look
at that mirror and not say fuck you.
Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Yeah, but it's not her fault.
Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
I don't That's what I'm saying. And it is like
I didn't even blame her in that moment.
Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
It's like, but don't you think that might be how
she took it with her?
Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
And we.
Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Had that conversation so good. I'm pretty on top of
having whatever conversation. I kind of have to because I
understand how things come across. And I told her exactly this,
it's hard to live in somebody's fucking mirror, and it's
like I have to. She looked at me, and I
know that this is probably a full entire other episode
(01:05:30):
topic we could go over. But she's like, well, the generally,
the generational curse that I cured was alcohol, and I
didn't really see any other problems, I said, And that's
the generational curse right there, the fact that you were
so hyper focused on one thing that you didn't affect
and change everything else. You didn't see that this was
(01:05:52):
a problem, and that was a problem, and that was
a problem, and that effected this and that and this,
and that you were so hyper focused on alcohol causes
all this that it didn't change your mindset and how
everything else.
Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
Grew because it did cause it in her life. So
she didn't want that to move forward. But in other
ways it crept up on the side of her while
she was doing this situation.
Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Right, and it became the comfort and calmness that she
wanted to grow and be okay, And so it becomes
a very very tricky slope.
Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Yeah, So guys, check out our check out g fuel
used goat o Arms. He has to check out for
twenty percent off, Tell them we love them, check out everything,
make sure to subscribe, like the videos if you like them,
and kJ thank you. It's been a blast. We'll see
you next time.
Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
Take care,
Welcome to the second episode of The Lonely Road. We
are here to join you on your journey to heal
and become a better human. Many of you may know
me from my job or my other podcast. This is
going to be a very different show though. We will
be going on a deep dive of brief mental health
and showing you how to better yourself, whether it's stats
or stories, or just going into all of it in depth.
(00:23):
After dealing with the trauma that I'm currently dealing with,
which is what this show this episode is about, with
my girlfriend, I looked at her and told her I
want to use this pain and the struggle to help
others dealing with similar things, or give them kind of
a voice to be able to actually sound off and
feel like they're not alone. So half of the money
that this podcast makes, whether it's sponsorships or your guys' donations,
(00:44):
they will be going to a charity or somebody in need.
Whenever those funds become available, we'll start telling you guys
more about those things as well. This show is brought
to you by g Fuel. Used cart of rmts at
checkout for twenty percent off kJ.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
How are you doing, I'm doing all right, I am caj.
Some of the people that come here might know me
from TikTok. However, this is definitely something new, something exciting
that we're both doing on our own journeys and healing
and betterment patterns. So there's literally one day. I wanted
(01:21):
to bring this up real quick. There's literally one day
for everything these days. This one falls along the topic
we discussed and November tenth, I guess was World Mental
Health Day?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
October tenth, That's what.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I meant October tenth. I had November written down for
whatever reason. But everyone and I know suffers from something,
you know, whether it's physical or whether it's mental, and
usually the physical turns into mental after a while anyway,
for whatever reason. So it's interesting that people walk paths
(01:54):
and see people every day that are suffering, but they
don't know how they can help. What can you do
in your everyday dealings? And it's really just as easy
expressing gratitude and empathy towards yourself and others, prioritizing that
self care, rest being able to rely on a source
(02:14):
of support or be a reliable source of support.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And I think that first thing is something that a
lot of people thoroughly struggle with entirely. Yeah, they do
not want to give anybody their flowers because they're afraid
they're not going to get theirs. Therefore, they just put
their hands up and they don't give anybody credit unless
they're being applauded by everybody. Yeah, and that's it's the
scary and sad thought for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And it's one of the things that I've learned recently
is to give flowers while people are still here. And
that's very, very important, and it's very equally vital that
when you're checking in with other people that you're also
checking in with yourself, giving you and yourself the same
grace that you're sending to other people.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Now, I do want to say this because I didn't
get a chance to say this last episode. I do
want to put a trigger warning, but I don't necessarily
fully agree with them on a lot of these episodes.
If we're talking about death and stuff like this, guys,
it's going to be a hard conversation. It's going to
be a hard in depth kind of storytelling half an
hour to an hour. These are going to be hard
(03:23):
to listen to. Is are going to be anecdotes and
things that you could take out of it. Absolutely, But
if it's going to affect you to the point where
you can't listen right now or at all or this episode,
come back next week. It's absolutely okay. Drop the like,
show us that you care, show us that you want
to support, subscribe, do all of the normal podcast things.
But some of these topics are heavy, some of them
(03:44):
are hard. But make sure that we don't fall out
of your subboxes or your podcast feed, because that stuff
can happen, and you might not know that we upload
next week because you didn't interact with last week or
this one or whatever. Even if you don't want to
listen to the topic, make sure to interact because and
you don't lose us.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, you need to take a break. Take
a break. And I also encourage all of you to
have open and honest discussions about mental health like we're
trying to do here, to show love, compassion, and respect
to yourselves and the people you interact with on a
daily basis.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, and with this topic, it's changed a lot of
how I've kind of seen exactly how I've grown in
the past three years. So I'm going to give you
a little bit of backstory, and obviously it's probably a
little too much. At almost four years ago. Now, me
and my previous wife separated in January, it would be
(04:38):
four years and we just recently got a divorce and
all of that finalized and everything else, and it's been
a really, really hard time, and I've had to rebuild
back my entire support system because she dealt with BPD,
which is dealing with narcissism and a whole bunch of
other shit all at the same time. And I was
(04:58):
kind of disconnected from every whether that was a family member,
whether that was friends, whether that was even people that
I saw as like siblings. Everybody was gone.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Everybody was.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And then I developed my relationship with my girlfriend, who's
one of the most sweet and kind people in the world,
and she's been by my side through all of it,
Like since like month three, she's been by my side.
And since that point she's been talking about, oh, I
want a baby. I've never been able to feel those feelings.
I've never been able to do that. And we finally
(05:34):
fully got together and were together and she ended up
pregnant and we were so excited. Was it scary, Yeah,
because she's never been in that place before. She didn't
understand what those thought processes were or how those things
were going to happen. She was unsure, right, She didn't
(05:56):
know what she was feeling, She didn't know what she
was dealing with.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
She was just scared, understandably so so about she was
twenty weeks so we went to her appointment literally week
or two before that, and she was giving me all clear,
everything was good.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
They checked the baby's heart rate, they checked everything, nothing
was wrong, asked how she was doing. Her cramps slowly
started slowing down, Her morning sickness started slowing down, she
started improving it.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It was great.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
And then she woke me up a month ago early
in the morning, she's like, theab I'm having. Her cramps
kicked up to a level that just weren't seen before,
and to me, like dealing with my ex wife's miscarriages
and stuff like that, you know, those things happen. My
wife dealt with severe cramps and severe problems with her
last pregnancy with our baby, and my girlfriends had cramps
(06:53):
this entire time, so we couldn't really take it as
something that was big or different or anything like that.
It was like, hey, you need anything, She's like, yeah,
she grabbed me this and this, and I kind of
gave her whatever she needed at that point, and she's like,
we're going to lay back down. I guess she went
and took a shower and she started miscarrying and we
lost the baby. So she wakes me back up again,
(07:17):
and the miscarriage didn't happen yet, and I was like,
just get into the bathroom. Get to the bathroom. I'll
get you water, I'll get you taken care of. I'll
take my meds that way where we're able to do
whatever we need to do today. And I'm, you know,
somewhat clear headed that I am okay, because my ADHD
is a fucking bitch somedays. And we got my daughter
(07:40):
off the school, we got my mom woking up, she
was able to come over here, and she ended up
having to drive my girlfriend to to the hospital. With
my neck injury, I'm not able to drive as much
as I probably should be able to at thirty years old,
but hopefully it heals and starts getting a little bit
better here at some point. But she was a fucking
(08:05):
rock star the entire time. She was in pain, but
she wasn't. She wasn't so disconnected from what reality was,
that everything was like the entire world was crashing. The
only thing that she wanted was me. All day, my
mom just kept telling me, Oh, she's asking for you.
She wants you to be okay, and that's as far
(08:27):
as she knows. She doesn't know that I wasn't okay
all day. I was sitting right here where I am
right now for about a good forty five minutes an hour,
and I calmed myself down. I figured I would have
to clean up the bathroom because she ended up miscarrying
not all the toilet, but in the bathroom itself and
(08:48):
everything else. So I was like, fuck, got to keep
the dogs downstairs, like trying to separate everything and kind
of just compartmentalize my feelings. I cleaned up our bedroom,
got everything taken care of there, came downstairs, and I
started having a panic attack. I was on the phone
with my aunt. There's another one like my mom just
always there all the time, whenever I need her, regardless
(09:08):
of what's going on.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
She will be there.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And I just I couldn't grasp what I had to do,
what I didn't have to do at that point. But
about five minutes after I got on the phone with
my aunt. I got a message from my mom. Can
you send me pictures of the baby? They want to
make sure everything's out because the baby didn't end up
(09:32):
going with her because her getting to the hospital was
number one. Everything got all fucked up. So they're like,
can you send pictures. After you said that you took
pictures of Brett the other day, I was like, fuck,
I know that pain because I did it.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah, I did it. I had to walk upstairs.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I just I just walked down stairs after having a
panic attack because I was like, okay, I have to
clean this up. And I put a paper towel over
top of the towel that he was laying in and
stuff like that, and I had a panic attack. I
came downstairs and started shaking like I couldn't I couldn't
grasp reality, and uh my mom called no. My mom
(10:21):
messaged me, hey, you don't have to clean anything up.
If anything, I'll take care of it. Don't worry about it.
I've got you. I was like okay, and then five
minutes later got another message. We're not allowed to touch anything
the corner and the police will be arriving soon.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh yeah, I remember getting a message from your mom
about it all. We started talking about it, and then
she told me that the corner and the police were
on the way up to your house, and hit of
my stomach just rocks. I couldn't even imagine.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
And it's not even just it's like it's a one
singular kind of thing. Yeah, because I was getting told
all of the questions that they were asking for the
entire time, I was getting told, Oh, well, they're asking
if you're abusive, They're asking if you were drinking, They're
asking if she's doing drugs. They're actively asking all of
these things because they don't understand and they don't know.
(11:21):
So when I heard the police were coming, I was like, oh, fuck,
what what exactly is going to happen?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Now?
Speaker 1 (11:28):
What exactly do they see this as? Is is there
an active problem that I'm just completely oblivious to.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, that's where I was.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Outside.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I sat outside waiting for my daughter. That the cops
and everybody were supposed to be here hours before. My
girlfriend got to the hospital at like nine, nine thirty
in the morning. Nobody showed up here until two thirty
to forty. No, it was like three thirty, and my
daughter gets off the bus from school at four. I
(12:00):
looked at them and said, I need this to be
done before my daughter fully gets home. Like we can't,
we can't do this. I'm not doing this, Tarr. She
doesn't need to see this shit. They treated the house
like a crime scene. They told us we're not allowed
in the house at all. They didn't finish anything before
(12:21):
Mattie at home. They just left it. They told me
that I had to be outside. They told me that
when she got here, I had to keep her outside
and as soon as I had somebody that was available
to pick her up, they needed to come get her
and get her out of here now, which didn't cure
my anxiety at all of well, anything could be Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
That could. That's alarming because you're like, well, am I
in trouble? Why can't why can't she be here?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Like honestly, if if she needs anybody, it's going to
be me. Like if she needs to figure out what
the fuck's going on in the common all of this,
it's going to be me that shows her that. So
my aunt, who I haven't talked to in like six
seven years, came and picked her up because they didn't
(13:10):
want my sister to pick her up and she left,
and I had to fill out a full deposition of
every single minute of the entire morning, where Brie was,
where I was, what happened, Why we didn't call nine
one one, which isn't a normal thing that I've ever
heard for a miscarriage or a fetal death at all.
(13:32):
It was go to the hospital, it gets taken care of.
Yobi tells you exactly what to do when you call them.
They told me to go to the hospital. My answer
is to get her to the hospital as soon as possible,
and to get her to a hospital that is actually good.
Where we live, there's two hospitals that are absolute shit
stains on the side of fucking healthcare. I did not
(13:55):
want her at either of those. So my job is
to make sure that she's at a good one. So
after all of that, they're like, Okay, you're fine, everything's done,
everything's taken care of. They took the baby to go
get cremated in the in the corner van and everything else.
(14:15):
But it was so hard just to kind of grasp
all of that and kind of know things were going
to be okay. When we're filling out police reports that
our pages.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
And pages long, crazy.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Most people can't remember what the fuck they had for breakfast,
let alone full minute by minute breakdown of the day.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Seriously insane. I just couldn't believe it blew my mind
that the police were going up there, Like I couldn't
even imagine what else could have happened, Like there had
to have been something more than your mother was telling me.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
But no, Like they went through my room, they went
through both of the kids rooms. They went through the
bathroom upstairs where everything happened, which is what I assumed
they were going to do. They were going to go
through the bathroom and make sense it took my medication
out of the cabinet and took pictures of it. They
took pictures of my entire house. I had the beagle
(15:10):
locked up in the bottom bathroom because I was like, okay,
would make sense for them to make sure that they
don't have problems with a dog. Leave a dog in
the room where it's taken care of. The dog was
out roaming. It's like, guys, I tried to make it
easy on you. I tried to do whatever you needed
me to do. Like you're lucky I don't have an
(15:31):
asshole dog that's going to.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Eat you crazy. I just.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
That situation was not hand ill gently at all.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
It didn't seem it. It didn't seem that at all.
It just seemed like it was everything from all sides
all at once.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Like we're dealing with the death of a baby, and
you're looking at everybody like we're every single person in
this situation is a fucking criminal, right, Like the level
of these questions, the level of all this shit just
just fucking sucks. And so bring and my mom finally
(16:17):
get back and me and her are sitting outside and
we're just talking. My dad, my stepdad, came inside and
he's like, don't worry about the dishes.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
I got you.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I'm gonna try and handle as much as I can
so that way you guys aren't dealing with this shit.
He always does, so thankful for that. He's fucking fantastic.
He might not know how to have the conversation of
I'm gonna help you, but he knows that nobody likes
fucking doing dishes, and he'll hop right in without even
being asked and help in whatever way he can. So
(16:51):
me and my mom are sitting outside and the mirrors
of this situation and the mirrors of my brother passing
started hitting me in the badly, and I think you
much like my mom. It's very very easy to see
that my mom's life and my life are very very
very easy to mirror each other. They're all very very
(17:14):
very similar. And that to me hit me in the
heart in a way that I didn't expect it to.
It's so hard. I can't even say part of it
that mirror is it? But it's so hard to just
(17:37):
grasp all of this after dealing with it as a
child and now dealing with it as an adult. It's
hard to kind of see exactly what you're supposed to
fucking do because it all feels disconnected and I'm all
not really sure exactly what I'm supposed to do and
how I'm supposed to go about this, because it's not normal.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
No, it's definitely not normal. It's not normal how it
was handled. It's not normal to begin with that it happened.
It's not normal to have it held with such jagged hands.
It's not normal to feel like a criminal when your
(18:17):
girlfriend just lost your child, and.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I told them, I was like, I understand, I understand
the question because I've looked into so many things. Asking
the question should never be wrong, but you should treat
it as it's gray, not like you have to make
sure that somebody is not guilty first, right, right. So
(18:42):
to me, the first thing that hurt really fucking bad,
and it was the first thing that clicked into my
head after I saw my mom was my entire childhood.
And I'm sure you heard this millions of times. She
struggled with this lot, and she looked at me and
my sisters and said, I want you guys to have
(19:04):
a baby for each one that I couldn't have, or
each one that had a problem, or all of those things.
And I'm worrying it slightly different so that way she
doesn't sound jagged and harsh as well. But I had
one for every single one that she missed, including the death.
Ed That part hurt. It hurt realizing that the words
(19:29):
that she spoke at five, six and seven years old
fully came true. I had a nicku baby, My last
baby before this was in the nicku for a week.
Then I had the baby that passed too, So I
had one every single way she did, and that really
(19:53):
fucked me up. It sucks because it's not just the death.
It brings back all of the PTSD and trauma from
my childhood. It brings back all of those feelings of
why the fuck me, why the fuck this situation, Why
the fuck do we have to deal with this. We're
good people, we don't deserve this. I looked at my
(20:18):
mom and just said, I want you to understand something,
and you're one of the few people in the world
that can understand this. And this is how raw that
I want this show to be, and I want you
guys to see the rawness. I looked at her and said,
just no, I love you, but fuck you, because I
felt like she spoke this into existence almost, And it's hard.
(20:43):
It's genuinely hard to kind of look at all this
and not be genuine enough to say, there are so
many things that a few people have said about me specifically,
and every single one of them have come true. Not
because I seeked it out, but because people think that
that is some sort of thing to say, and it
(21:06):
somehow became a destination or destiny of what was going
to happen kJ What did my grandma say all the
time about me? What was I going to do the family?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I mean, that was always what I heard.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Who's the one that got everybody into a room on
Friday night? Ye, who's the one to be able to
talk to anybody who hasn't talked to in years? Then
my mom clicks with that. Our lives mirror each other
so fucking much. And it's so hard not to look
(21:45):
at this shit and think of it as these are
the things she couldn't get past, and I'm now the
one who has to handle them again and try and
pass them and pass anyway that they supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
You have to understand that while doing that, you can't
lay out blame either, because none of this.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I'm not trying to.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I'm not trying to, and I know it comes off
that way and it might feel that way, But I
don't blame anybody for the things that have happened to me.
That's that's entirely my struggles and my happenings. But those mirrors, man,
And I'm sure there's going to be some people in
the comments and some people even kJ might have those
same occurrences in her life. It is really hard not
(22:30):
to realize that things mirror other people that are around you.
And it is fucking hard. And I love my mom.
I love my mom to death, regardless of how many
problems we've had, regardless of the fucked up things that
have happened. I love so many members of my family
in ways that I could not explain to them. Even
(22:51):
when I didn't talk to them, I still cared. But this,
it seems like even in the darkest day, I, the
person dealing with all of this shit, turned on the
light and pulled us out of it. Two days later,
(23:14):
it was a Wednesday. No, it was Thursday. It was
three days later. I woke up, I got all my
stuff ready for work and stuff like that. I told
my girlfriend, I'm not recording my podcast Real Men Talk
Shit this week. I was like, I need a little
bit to be okay. I just need five minutes. I
need I need peace for a little bit. She's like,
(23:36):
that's great. It was like, but I need to do
something with this fire. I need to do something that
is actually going to change the way that this is
supposed to go. And I looked at her and I said,
we could not have gotten through this without struggle, without
(24:00):
ten times more struggle than what we already are, without
our family and the people around us making sure every
single thing that we need is taken care of. And
I cannot say thank you enough for every single person
that has touched me, touch free, or has been a
part of this situation, whether that's kJ and my aunt,
my mom, my sister, all of you guys.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
You guys have helped so fucking much.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, support system in the village is worth more. It's
not just a cliche. It's definitely a part of life
that you need in order to get through.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
I told her, I was like, I want to build
something that impacts people that are dealing with this right now,
just like me and you. Whether if that's fifty dollars
to make sure you have gas to get to the
hospital or two hundred dollars to make sure our cremation happens,
We're just making sure that you have an ear or
somebody that can fucking be there. I don't want people
(25:02):
to feel alone anymore, because I spent way too many
days feeling alone. Nobody deserves to feel that anymore.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It's hard, very beyond, hardy beyond.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It's so hard remembering the stories of what my mom
would tell me about Brett's funeral and that I was
the light that day. I asked, oh, are we having parties?
Like this more often or every day or whatever I said,
just joking around and being a kid. I watched my
(25:52):
baby do the same exact thing on Friday. Yeah, being
in a pizza place and you know, every being around,
but not being a funeral is kind of different. But
there's not one single person that's sitting there hanging out
and trying to be Okay. That Eva didn't you know,
make smile that day too. Yeah, it's so weird and
(26:21):
so cyclical that it's just it is hard not to
see the mirror. It's hard not to just you know,
feel like everything's the same over and over again. There's
only so many outcomes and you just have to get
it right.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yep, there's cycles to be broken. You gotta be the
one to break them, or teach your children how to
be the one to break them. Yeah, that hasn't happened
a lot in the past. People are breaking generational curses
right and left these days, and I applaud everybody who
breaks any kind of generational curse, small or monumental. It's
(27:01):
not an easy feet it's feet.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
It's crazy to believe.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
And I found this step as we were getting ready
to start ten to twenty percent of known pregnancies and
in miscarriage.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
That's that's too many. Yeah, that's that's too many.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
It is.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
And think about it this way, like, how many of
them have a known cause.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
There's not many because you don't know what there's not
many autopsies that are done.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
You know what we were told. And I don't know
if my mom was told the same thing for Brett,
but they told us if we sent him to get
cremated in all the NY they would do an autopsy,
but we would not receive him back.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
So we could either go about our route and have
him cremated, pay for it, and take care of it,
but we will never know what happened or no, what happened,
and never receive our son back.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It's crazy. No, had brib gone to the doctor after that,
after this all happened?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Has she been to the ob the psych what? Yeah? Uh?
They told us that we have to wait a couple.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Months to try or do anything like that. And they
were kind of rough with her even at that appointment.
And that was three days out, that was Wednesday of
that week. And you know, I'm a very questioning kind
of person, right, and this doctor, like I asked three
(28:46):
or four different questions. They're like, well, you need to
get on a prenatal. Okay, if we're putting her on
a prenatal and she's not able to accept full of acid,
that's going to cause her depression to get worse. No,
that's never been founded. Why are you even bringing that up? Yes,
it has been founded. I'm asking because I'm actually genuinely
asking a question, and I'm not some dude who doesn't
(29:08):
know what the fuck he's doing.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I hate doctors that dismiss people as ignorant and unknowing
and dismiss their questions as such. Just healthcare these days.
Is That's a whole different podcast altogether. But that gives
been crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
As we were walking out, it was like, I don't
know how you accept her as your doctor, because anybody
who messages me like that would give me a fucking problem.
You know, I normally don't break any conversation at all,
but I am thoroughly confused. I have nobody in my
(29:47):
phone saved as dad, nobody, and I'm receiving a call
from Dad.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, isn't that weird?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah? Yeah, they'reoughly confused.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Is it a brand new phone?
Speaker 3 (30:07):
No?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Nope, So there might have.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Been had it for No, I received it as a
brand new phone. It's like six months old.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
That just completely took me off guard. And I that's
a whole nother podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
That whole conversation is a whole other podcast. Yes, yeah, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, No,
it's it's crazy now as far as the doctor and
medicine is concerned, and and how rough they were with her,
what were your initial feelings on that. I mean, I know,
being dismissed and and and those feelings. It must have
(30:43):
been maddening.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
But frustrates me because there's so many questions with healthcare now,
regardless of if they're legitimate, questions were not, because there's
a lot of bullshit questions that a lot of people
want to ask that make no fucking sense. But the
way our bodies break down amino acids and stuff like
that is something that nobody really grasps. We learned amino
acids where the things in your DNA, and that's about it.
(31:06):
But yet they af factor your brain chemistry in so
many different ways that people just don't want to grasp.
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
When I went to the therapist, I was like, these
are the symptoms I'm having.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
If you want to.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Question me about BPD, I completely understand. These are the
problems I've had since childhood. Like I'm willing to ask
the question and do whatever you want to do. But
I would rather ask the question and receive no, you're wrong,
or no this is why, then just be completely cut off, dismissed.
My next surgery is completely because I did the research
(31:50):
my next surgery. The doctors didn't want to treat me,
and they didn't believe the rascal At syndrome is a
thing I had to force myself while on workers comp
to a different doctor who actually treated it. And because
it's a vascular and nervous injury, it had to be
a heart surgeon, and they really didn't want to go
(32:11):
from orthopedics to heart surgery. But the only reason that
I was able to is because I could prove probable cause.
If I wasn't that smart, I get this missed, I
pass out at work. How big of a fucking problem
is that?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah? Yeah, the people have to be advocates for themselves
more than they should have to these days because they're
not listened to and.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
The humanities in medicine is gone.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, no, it is in the realm of mental health
that's gotten pretty bad too. I got a story about
my wife and her last counselor that will blow your
blow your minds. So yeah, that's a whole nother story.
Question I have is the resources. Like I understand that
(33:06):
you got, you know, some donations and some help because
you didn't readily have you know, resources available for everything
that you needed to do. But what kind of like
how did you find out what you could do where
to do it? Like where can people find these resources
(33:26):
in their areas?
Speaker 1 (33:28):
So most of those things, like the corner was also
the person that ran the funeral home, and I assume
that that's just kind of like a small town thing
and everything else. But I think that on a larger
scale that probably would be different. As far as everything
else goes, it was kind of straightforward. It was all
(33:50):
just this happens, and that happens, and then this happens,
and so much of it's out of your hands that
it's really kind of hard to be like, well, this
is what I did there and everything else.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
So you were just given our ear It's okay, you
were just basically given your options.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
As far as everything goes, Like after after she was
getting released from the hospital, it was do you want
a funeral? Do you want to hear cut? What was
your question against? That way I can ask you.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
No, it's okay. So basically the coroner led you through
the process of what needed to happen with the actual remains,
and then when you left the hospital or she left
the hospital she got some more information. Is that she
basically she.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Came home and we're like, okay, let's decide on what
we're doing. That way we can kind of be definitive
about this. And I think that was more of a
me led thing than them led thing, Like I was like,
I want answers, I want the availability to step through this.
That way, we can kind of figure out our emotions
in the situation without deal with making choices, because if
(35:03):
we allow our emotions to make choices, we're going to
freeze and then we're going to get stuck, and that's
not how anybody really needs to be.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
No, So when you did make the decision, did you
you just kept in touch with the funeral home the corner.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, I re kept in touch with her almost entirely
over text message and stuff like that. Once again, I
assume that that's more of a small town thing where
it's like, so you were asking a week ago, almost
a week ago now about how to do resources, and
we were talking about that stuff, why we were doing
the show and kind of stuff like that. I don't
(35:39):
remember exactly what your specific question was. What was it
so way I can fully readdress it, because I don't
want to miss something for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
I was just asking, like a lot of people don't
know what to do next, like where did you get
that guidance and did you have to search for it
or was it readily given to you by the people
that were were around you, like the corner emmy cops.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
At A lot of the people that were there to
do things did not help at all. They weren't a
part of it. Yes, and I do want to give
my aunt and my mom credit telling me which way
to go and like, hey, you're going to have to
make these choices. But all of that kind of was
on us. The only thing that we were kind of
(36:24):
told at the end of when the police and the
coroner left, were like, hey, here's my card, call us.
But I couldn't do it because me and my girlfriend
are married. I wasn't allowed to be any part of
anything with the legal paperwork or legal documentation at all,
because essentially they don't have proofs that I'm the dad.
So like, regardless of how secure or how legally together
(36:48):
we are, unless there's a marriage, I have no rights right,
None of it's me. So that part was interesting to me,
was like I'm seeing almost as like a third rate citizen.
I'm so diss connected from this situation that it's not
my situation to have almost.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
And that's that's a level all in its own, a layer,
a whole other layer. Yeah, I can imagine. So you
got most of your information from your family.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah, and kind of just going through the next logical step, like, yeah,
my mom told me to call and be in touch
with the corner. She also told me that, so it
was okay, baby, you have to call the corner and
be on top of this, and if you need any
help and need anything as things go on, I can
help as things go on. But the first few phone
(37:39):
calls I can't be a part of. That's that's not
talk of the second.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Because even if she can't do it, she's still got
to give permission for you to be able.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
To do it exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So she's got to get through those first two or
three phone calls to kind of have the rapport enough
to be like, Zach can handle this, He's okay, and
move on from there, because if not, then I'm kind
of just shit out of luck.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, it's interesting how few resources there
are for people.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I think the inconsistencies in location is probably part of
the problem too, Like even in a small town like ours,
like it's very call this person, do this, do this,
do this, I'll go to the funeral home. It's all
kind of straightforward, like even when I'm like, I got
brea necklace breeze my girlfriend for anybody who doesn't know,
and we offered both the grandmothers. Hey, if you guys
(38:29):
want necklaces with his ashes, let us know and we'll
go get them filled for you. Zero problems, just like
the way you guys have it, because I don't. It
is so weird to try and find the ground of
like what somebody wants, what somebody doesn't want, what is
too much, what is not enough? I don't necessarily know.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, it's it's quite the balancing act. I'll admit that,
absolutely and as another layer to all this, you have
you have three other children that knew about this pregnancy, and.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
We're very We told them about like a month and
a half or so before this.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah, Max, how is that working? Like, as far as
you're grieving and Breeze grieving and then the children's layer
of grief as well, how is that all meshing together?
Speaker 1 (39:19):
So all three of them are very, very different, I think,
And that's kind of the weird thing. Like I remember
my mindset when I was four years old of like
I was sad, but I didn't really realize what was
going on at the same time, like I see a baby,
So it kind of fulfilled the answer. So I don't
necessarily know exactly how Abe's feeling, but boy, is she
(39:39):
really trying her damn hard is to make sure everybody
is laughing.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Everybody's happy. Yeah, that's one thing I noticed, Abo, And you.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Can kind of see that, like, and she was like
that before. She always tries to make me happy. She
always tries to do everything she can to just be
that spark. And it's so as weird as this sounds,
it's so weird to have somebody who wants to feed
off of that same energy you have, like to have
somebody who's just just as sparky, just as like much
(40:08):
of a light as you are.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's really rare. That's really rare.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Like with Nick, you can see that he's hurting, Like
you can see that he's like, I just I don't
know exactly how to feel. You have him listening and
talking with me and Ava when we were talking and
when he said, well, when she asked, well, where's the baby?
Is the baby coming? You see him just cheer out
because like he knows the answer, he knows how this
(40:38):
plays out. But at the same time, like you can't
explain that to a four year old, Like you can
tell it the gentle way, but if you're any more
direct or any any non human, then you're kind of
hurting your kid.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Yeah, that's It's very interesting how your pebble in the
water creates the ripples for the people around you and
everybody in your orbit.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
And Mattie was here. Maddie watched so much of the
stress and the trauma that morning that it's hard to
figure out exactly where she's feeling. Yeah, she's hurting, she
definitely is. She's told me she's hurting, but at the
same time, it's not to the same level I was.
So it's very hard to kind of grasp exactly where
(41:24):
she's at or what she's struggling with, or is she
even struggling at all with this anymore? Is she passed
it now Now that as of today it's been a month,
it's hard. It's hard to kind of grasp exactly where
everybody is because you want to have that transparency, and
I felt like I didn't have that. I felt like
(41:44):
everybody kind of just either wanted to hold something up
in this big, crazy light of nothing is wrong with this,
or we don't talk about it at all.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I think it was more of the ladder. I think that,
you know, talking about it was very very difficult for
your mom particularly, and it was when your mom was
able to get up and life like a human in
(42:16):
the thick of everything. It was tough to talk about
it because that put her right back into the cycle.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
You know. And I'm seeing similar things with Bree and
she's she's been an absolute fucking rock star. I've said
that privately, I've said it publicly. She's been more amazing
than I could ever expect her to be in this situation.
She has done fantastic and she actually she but she
(42:42):
was talking to me earlier about it. She's like, I'm
excited for this episode because I know that you know.
I want to hear your feelings. I want to hear
how you're feeling. I want to I want to hear
what's on your mind because you don't let me in
there all the time because you're afraid it's going to
hurt me. It's like, you care, you care. I see
that you care.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, she does, she does. It's different for you, though,
because you're with somebody that cares also about genuinely about
your well being internally, you know, and not just how
things affect her.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Honestly, I don't think very many people day two or
three out of this situation could here. I want to
turn this into a podcast to help people.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yeah, I want to.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Make money for other people and I want to do
this and I want to I want to shed the
light that we are feeling right now because everybody is
helping us, and bring everybody else up because that's what
people need right now. Yeah, very very few people are like, yes,
you're right, And she stood by me every single second
of that conversation and told me that I was right.
(43:49):
Most people can't.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, it's very, very, very it's very much a blessing
to have that support by your side, specifically when it's
doing something that you need to do for your own
health mentally coping, and being able to pass it forward
to someone else who very well maybe or have gone
(44:12):
through the same type in similar situations.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
And even comparing it to the past situations where we've
had miscarriages with me and my ex wife and stuff
like that. She always told me I was so cold
and I didn't care, and I was so internal and
I couldn't. I think for a lot of men, especially,
it's hard for them to put their feelings into it
because the female wants to hold everything in this light
(44:39):
that's either so drastic or so disconnected from reality that
if you put your feelings in there, you're either multiplying
their feelings or they feel like you're dismissing them. And
it's so hard to kind of get across exactly how
I'm feeling. Even in this situation where I'm finally kind
of saying I feel this or I feel that, it's
(45:01):
hard to grasp it really is, because I don't think
a lot of people really kind of face that feeling
of oh I can I can say this, where I
can do this, It's not a part of the conversation
in most people's opinion.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
I don't think no.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
I think it's hard for men in particular to show
emotion through, you know, not just showing the emotion and
expressing the emotion themselves, but allowing them to help themselves
to be vulnerable in front of their partner or in
front of the children, and showing that weakness and that
vulnerability side of them.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
That's got to be This is where the hot take
parts of me come in, and this is where it's
going to be interesting. I think a lot of the
time that men are vulnerable with their wives. If the
wife isn't the right one, it will damage your marriage entirely.
And it's a very very hard fine line to fucking find.
Women will either accept that you're going to be emotional
(45:58):
and hurting and help you deal with it, or they
don't want anything to do with it and they will
bash you over the head with it for the rest
of your relationship. And it's damn here impossible to figure
it out.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Unfortunately, both both and other people like but both those
kind of people and other people also exist. I do
believe that that's that's that's all.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
It's hard because like we're sitting here talking about grief
and depression and everything else. But it's like from a
man's perspective, men are only given so many emotions by
their mothers. Men are only men are only given so
many emotions by their upbringing and ways to show them.
Our sadness, our tears is anger. Everybody doesn't understand why
(46:48):
it's anger, but it's we're told that we have to
stand up because we're a boy and we can't cry.
We're treated like shit when we do cry, or when
we're depressed. I got left, I got cheated when I
was depressed. So like as a whole, it's very hard
to show those emotions, whether it's vulnerability or just kind
of standing on those grounds. It's hard for that not
(47:11):
to become anger because it's one of the only things
that we show and people actually respect or honor.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah, grief and emotions are very intertlined. I think in
particular anger is there's the five stages of grief, and
that's probably something I probably want to say first.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
You know, you have the.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Sadness, the guilt, the anger, shock, numbness, helplessness. It all
leads to depression and worse if it's not addressed.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
And I was having I was having that conversation with
pretty earlier because she's at that point where she just
everything is her fault, everything, And I told her, I
was like, if you keep if you keep turning this
into a mismatched salad or one big knot of everything
is your fault, babe, you will never heal from this ever.
(48:07):
And not because it's something you can heal from, not
because it's something that you can actually shine a light
on and untwine and be okay, but because you have
to be okay at some point tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
And if you make everything intertwined with how you feel,
you the only way that you can unravel all of
that is kind of devaluing your feelings.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
That sucks.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Well, you know, you don't have to devalue your feelings
as much as feel them, sit with them, figure out
what they're about, but don't live there.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
I think what a lot of people do is like
they'll say I feel this or I feel shitty because
of this, I am shit, and then that will intertwine
with their grief and their repulsiveness towards the situation, and
then that will go into their guilt for something that
they could have done three weeks before that changes the
entire thing, and then that changing that entire thing, then
(49:07):
they feel guilty that they didn't do it, so then
they feel shitty about themselves, and then they'll be like, oh, well,
I had this injury in twenty twenty twelve where I
broke my toe and now I can't walk street and
that's the reason why I couldn't lift that thing, and
me lifting that thing caused everything. And then it just
becomes a shit on me party of like I'm going
to destroy myself and that's the only way I can heal.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Stop.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
Stop, look at it at face level. Instead of combining
these fifty fucking things down the road. The fifty things
down the road have nothing to do with this.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Well, that's why I mean, don't live there like you're
going to feel a lot of things, but you have
to understand that. Excuse me, there is a grief process
that you need to go through, and if you get
stuck in any part of that grief process, it's going
to get more complicated. That's where I'm stuck. I'm stuck
(49:59):
in the grief process. You know, you have the five
stages of grief being anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. So
within those as well, you have a plethora of other
emotions that happen within each five of these, you know,
So you she is in one of those stages of
(50:22):
anger or I'm sorry, in one of those stages. Yeah,
and she's diving deeper into you know, if you're in
a denial, you are going to avoid, maybe you're confused,
maybe there's some kind of shock or fear in that denial.
When you get past that, you have your anger, which
(50:43):
is the frustration, the irritation, and the anxiety of it all,
and then you have the bargaining part of it. Or
you're struggling, you're struggling to find a reason, you're struggling
to find the meaning, and you're reaching out to others,
you're telling your story.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
And in this situation, just like bread, just like so
many things in this specific thought process, whether it's pregnancy, miscarriage,
or still birth, or or even death after birth, and
you have a kid who's a couple of years old,
there is no fucking answers, no, no, like, even if
(51:19):
you're given a reason of like, oh, well, this happened
and then that happened. If you look at what the
answer is why this happened, regardless of it it's this
situation or others, that reason will impact and change your
entire life. Stop looking for it, because you don't know
what the fuck you're gonna find when you keep flipping
over rocks.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
No, that could be.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
That could be a mental illness, that could be a
health problem, that could be zero reason. It could just happen.
And the fact that you're looking for an answer to
find a boogeyman will always cause you pain because then
you can never find an answer exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
You have to move forwards through them. And even if
you're not finding answers, some sort of resolve, you know,
some sort of resolve to help you move the next stage.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
She told me this this crazy thing, and I might
get the stats slightly wrong. I'm not going to google
it because I don't want to type in the in
the microphone. But she told me, like sixty five seventy
five percent of relationships in these situations end just end.
Whether that's one person just not being able to heal,
(52:32):
whether that's somebody going out of the relationship, whether they're
not working as a team, it just destroys itself because
the relationship is different.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
Now. It's scary.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
It's fucking scary to think that so many people kind
of lose their entire self worth, They lose their entire
system of backing, They lose everything because they just want
to destroy, not even necessarily destroyed. They just can't put
in the effort to do today.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
No, it's a it's a more exaggerated form of the
peaks and valleys that come with a normal marriage. But
you have this other huge explosion that happened, and it's
it's more exaggerated. It's a more exaggerated form of that.
I think I can't find any on a quick search,
I couldn't find any recent stats. But I did find
(53:32):
twenty twelve Center for Disease Control showing that the divorce
rate among couples that suffered the loss of a child
is about sixteen percent. And that was that that's a long.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Time ago, so fifty percent of marriage, Like most people
do not deal with miscarriage or death anyway, So sixteen
percent of all divorces are because of a miscarriage or
a child's death. That's twenty percent. That's what twelve percent
of all relationships end because of miscarriage or childhood death.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yeah, it completely shatters.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
That's just quick mass, but yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
It completely shatters a relationship. Can completely shatter a relationship
if you're not willing to not only individually grieve, but
grieve as a couple and give the grace to the
other human.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
And I think, although, like so many of this, so
much of the situation was shit, I do need to
give my mom flowers that specific situation. She didn't give up.
They looked at it, they reassessed everything. I completely understand
that there were parts of that situation where it might
have been the end, but as a whole, it didn't
fucking end. They kept going like they didn't handle the
(54:50):
situation properly, but they were okay with each other. And
that's so much of this situation is like, you can't
hate going upstairs and going a bed, You can't hate
looking at the person that's across the fucking table. You
can't resent that person. And those feelings are so easy
to get to because you feel like they caused it
(55:12):
or this reason or that reason, and that's not how
you should look at things ever.
Speaker 5 (55:17):
Right, right, it's r yeah, it's it's it's heavy.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
It's very heavy. It's very heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy topic.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
So you have some tips here for coping with anger
and grieving. Yeah, and I have one that's on here
that uh is not is not connected with any of these,
but it's the biggest one to me is be kind
of people who can't accept it and learn that there's
people that you have to put walls around too, secure
(55:56):
because not every single person in your life is going
to accept being a punching bag on bad days. Not
because you want everybody to be a punching bag, but
it's being said in the extreme way for a reason.
There are people that you can pick up that phone
and call and talk to and tell every single problem
(56:17):
that you're dealing with right now and just fucking be
angry and say in the most aggressive and harsh way
and they won't think anything. But you don't want to
go upstairs and do the same thing to your daughter. No,
you don't want to go upstairs and do the same
thing to your mom. No, you don't want to do
(56:39):
the same thing and ruffle everybody's feathers around you and
that is one of the hardest thing. Like, we could
go through all of these coping with anger and grieving,
but all of them are so much more dictated towards
females that it's hard to grasp. Most guys get their
anger out by fucking saying it or just letting it burn.
(57:03):
Letting it burn is a lot of just doing the
fucking shit and keeping your fucking mouth shut. And I
don't think females fully grasp or understand that at all,
because if I keep my mouth shut, nobody's hurt. I'd
rather hurt every single day than anybody in this fucking
house hurt.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
Understood. Valid, But you also now have the type of
relationship where you don't have.
Speaker 3 (57:30):
To do that.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Some days you may, some days you may, but you
don't always have to do that because you now have
somebody that you can speak with about you how you're feeling,
and wants to know how you're feeling, and is inquiring
about how you're feeling about a situation where when this
happened to you in the past, it's basically, this is
(57:51):
this is how I'm feeling, and if I hear any
of your feelings, it's just gonna come out of it.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
Yeah, right, and it's really hard to see where that changed.
Is that a me thing change where I'm just like, Okay,
I'm going to tell you plainkly what I'm feeling. And
that's different which.
Speaker 3 (58:09):
It might be.
Speaker 1 (58:09):
I think it's a both, or it's just a person
difference or what I think it's both.
Speaker 2 (58:13):
I think the personality between Brie and it are completely different.
I think, yeah, I think there are polar opposites if
you are on a spectrum, and to be honest with you,
I think that there's a lot of empathy that Bree
carries that I don't believe the other really had the
(58:36):
contention for possible. You know, it's just a and also
within yourself. You've grown exponentially over the last few years,
so particularly you know. So it's it's also a want
to better yourself, a want to better the way that
(58:56):
you communicate this time around, so that you're not feeling
like you're doing things wrong, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (59:03):
And I think, honestly, and this might be a good
one to do after the next one. We film is
a look back at the past three years of how
I for years now have changed and look back at
things and kind of give some of you guys a
step by step guide of this is what I dealt
with this is how I used to deal with it,
(59:24):
and this is how I've changed me.
Speaker 2 (59:27):
Yeah, we've both exponentially changed, So we can bounce back
and forth with those stories. It's going to be. It's
it's an amazing transformation when you when you allow yourself
to look inward rather than pointing the finger outward at
other people. When you appoint that finger inward first, and
you have the courage to do that, your your whole
world changes because you're able to start with you. And
(59:52):
that's in then outside world.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
It's such a weird thing, Like when I started feeling
all of this stuff after everybody left that night, after
the cops left, after all the family left, I stopped
answering Bree's best friend. I stopped answering Bree's mom. I
didn't have to worry about anybody other than Brie, Maddie
and me. I believe myself, what could I have done better?
(01:00:20):
Should I have lifted that soda pack? And that's the
biggest problem of the entire day, or and I beat
myself up more than anybody genuinely probably should, But I'd
rather look inside and tell myself I'm wrong. I'd rather
tell myself, hey, do this better, change this, affect this
(01:00:41):
because it's it's the start of how to fix the
fucking problem.
Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
And you can't start fixing anything without pointing inwards first.
It's always, it's always, always important to allow your feelings,
whatever they may be, to cope with your grief. Everybody
copes differently. There is not any set path for grief.
Suppressed feelings lead to unresolved grief, which I'm the poster
(01:01:06):
child for unresolved grief, depression, anxiety, chronic physical symptoms as well.
You know, it's very interesting to see different people and
how different people communicate their feelings, and it's equally important
for maintaining those healthy relationships around you and how you
communicate those feelings.
Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
There's a big one on this list, and I know
we didn't fully go over every single little bit of it,
but so one that sticks out to me. Tell others
how short fused you are, and apologize if you stepped
over the line.
Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Yep. Yep.
Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
It's with the boundaries you have in your relationships. Also
understand that if somebody steps on your toes it's not
your job just sit there and bitch and complain about
being triggered if somebody pisses you off when you're on
one and you're pissed off and you're dealing with shit
that's not other people's problem to deal with, if it's
(01:02:05):
just a youth thing, or if it's a grief thing
like this, or or if you're tearing every single thing
a fucking new asshole because you're on one today. If
something triggers you, it's not their fault.
Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
It's yours.
Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
It's your responsibility. Yeah, yours. Triggers are not anybody else's responsibility.
They're your responsibility to handle.
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
With so many people nowadays, I think that that shit
needs to be said because there's a lot of people
that want to stand up and be like, I'm triggered.
Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Okay, what are you going to do about it? What
are you going to do about it? Because you can't
point outwards your whole life?
Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
You know, you want to get ahole?
Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
No, you know, and and and in anger. I feel
like anger is at least for me, I can't speak
for everyone, but I know for me, anger was a
very center motion, uh throughout my grief until just recently,
and you want to get the feelings out to avoid
(01:03:06):
the pentup emotion, but you want to make sure you're
not throwing daggers at those you love in that moment
of pain. You know I did that with my father.
You know, I totally unleashed online and should not have.
You know, things I could say are not equivalent to
things that I should say. I should have handled the
(01:03:27):
situation differently, and my anger made my emotion takeover.
Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
You know, it's weird that responsibility you have as an adult,
and I think that it takes time for everybody to
kind of learn that.
Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
Oh yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
It's just so weird and such a disconnect that I
think everybody kind of feels. You'll feel like you can
say something and then be like, oh shit, I wish
I didn't say that. Yeah yeah, but you have to
stand on it because you said it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
You have to stand on it. But like you said,
don't be too proud to circle back and apologize if
you misstepped, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
I think that's one of my biggest growth sections, was
I'm not angry anymore. And I know you had it
in the list of like, well, let's circle it back.
To your mom and kind of show the anger and
everything else. I wasn't angry saying that. I said it
because I wanted to get the feeling out of like
(01:04:27):
you're you're showing me that life is a mirror and
I don't fucking like it, and that that sounds really
fucking childish, and I understand that, but as a whole,
when you try so fucking hard to bring yourself and
bring your family out of the the shithole that you're
starting at, and no matter how far you get, everything
(01:04:51):
still looks like a fucking mirror, it's hard to look
at that mirror and not say fuck you.
Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Yeah, but it's not her fault.
Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
I don't That's what I'm saying. And it is like
I didn't even blame her in that moment.
Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
It's like, but don't you think that might be how
she took it with her?
Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
And we.
Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Had that conversation so good. I'm pretty on top of
having whatever conversation. I kind of have to because I
understand how things come across. And I told her exactly this,
it's hard to live in somebody's fucking mirror, and it's
like I have to. She looked at me, and I
know that this is probably a full entire other episode
(01:05:30):
topic we could go over. But she's like, well, the generally,
the generational curse that I cured was alcohol, and I
didn't really see any other problems, I said, And that's
the generational curse right there, the fact that you were
so hyper focused on one thing that you didn't affect
and change everything else. You didn't see that this was
(01:05:52):
a problem, and that was a problem, and that was
a problem, and that effected this and that and this,
and that you were so hyper focused on alcohol causes
all this that it didn't change your mindset and how
everything else.
Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
Grew because it did cause it in her life. So
she didn't want that to move forward. But in other
ways it crept up on the side of her while
she was doing this situation.
Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Right, and it became the comfort and calmness that she
wanted to grow and be okay, And so it becomes
a very very tricky slope.
Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Yeah, So guys, check out our check out g fuel
used goat o Arms. He has to check out for
twenty percent off, Tell them we love them, check out everything,
make sure to subscribe, like the videos if you like them,
and kJ thank you. It's been a blast. We'll see
you next time.
Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
Take care,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.