Chris R. - AA Speaker - Saving Our Lives - THE M2 THE ROCK SHOW - Michael Molthan

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Chris Ramer. I'm very grateful recovered alcoholic.
I Uh, I'm honored to be here. Goysh it's great
like old Home week. Some of y'all I know well,
and some of y'all I haven't met yet, and I'm
just honored to be here. It's just I was was
talking earlier. It's just this is gonna be fun with
with Katie and Charlie this weekend. And I know some

(00:21):
of y'all are not gonna be able to be here tomorrow,
and uh, you're gonna miss up a hoot because it's
it's sometimes you get catch some resistance and audiences when
you're coming out of the big book and you're a
little thumper and you know people don't agree with you. You know,
you got to try to share the podium with people
like that with us, and it's like it's like it's
like a cat fight the whole day, and it's like,
you know, well, this is what I really meant to say,

(00:42):
and I didn't intend, and everybody walking on eggshells and
I I just this will be fun. We're gonna come
at this tomorrow with a with an idea of of
how we take a newcomer through the steps at a
pretty quick pace. Uh, we're gonna walk through the steps
at a at a at a pretty quick clip. I
think one of the biggest mistakes we make in alcoholics Anonymous.

(01:03):
I'll tell you this. In all the twelves that fellowships,
we just make this so freaking complicated that half the
people out there just lose interests before they're halfway through.
It's just not that complicated. I got to say this
stuff going in the door and kind of give you
a little point of reference. I nearly died getting too alcoholics, Anonymous,
and I'm also a member of some other fellowships and
ideally love anybody that's trying to get well. And I

(01:25):
think I just need to say this, guys. I've been sober,
I don't know how long, twenty two years now. I
got sober in nineteen eighty seven. And I spend a
lot of time speaking from podiums. Early on. I'm really shy,
except when I get from behind this podium and then
God kind of kicks in and I kind of go
one hundred miles an hour. And I have a reputation
for cussing from the podium a lot. And you know,

(01:47):
I don't care what you think. Kind of an attitude,
and I just got to tell you, folks, I haven't
cussed from the podium in years, and I care what
you think. I get a little tired of being introduced.
Is that is the asshole from hell? You know. You

(02:11):
know I had a circuit speaker friend of mine say
one time, you know, he says, Chris says from the
podium what everybody in the room would like to say
at certain times, but doesn't have the cajones to do it.
And I don't want to be that guy. I don't
want to be the bad guy. I you know, we
talked to Mark a lot before he passed away. Over
the years, I became quite sensitive to the fact that

(02:31):
I was. You know, when you walk in a room
and you got some people, I mean, come on, guys,
some of us are we're we've we've swapped spit for years.
You know, we're thick as thieves and and some of us,
you know, it's like you walk in the room and
people they they don't like you for what you haven't
even said yet. Y'all understand that sitting in the rooms
waiting to be pissed off and it's like, you know this,

(02:53):
our fellowship is full of those people, and I can
appreciate that. Y'all all like everything I've got to say, Chris,
we appreciate your passion. We love you. You just you
until I say something that you don't agree with, you
with us, Katie and Chargie, that we're just talking about
the same thing, and then all of a sudden it's like, well,
I can't believe he said that from the podium. That's
just you know, it's like guys man buddies. One of
the first things that Mark talked to me about was,

(03:15):
let's look at your truth based on your experience, not
a not a head full of knowledge. Well, I don't
know if this will work or I don't know if
that will work, but it sounds good. What's your truth
based on your experience? If going to a ninety meetings
and ninety days and spouting one liners has got you
sober and it's keeping you sober and you're a happy
little camper, how cool is that? Rock On, this is

(03:38):
the bomb. You're welcome to do that. You'll follow. It's
not what the big book says. That's okay, But in
the same breath those meetings nearly killed me. That's my experience.
Middle of the road solution, watered down, weakened program message

(04:00):
nearly took me to a suicide attempt in nineteen eighty seven.
And that's my experience. And that's just I want to
show you my truth based on my experience. I get
thousands of emails from folks all over the world thanks
to a great I work at a hospital, a treatment
center down in Texas, and I'm sitting in front of
a computer terminal with an eight hundred number right there.
You know, as I get to talk to people from

(04:20):
all over the world, and the cats that pick up
these stupid CDs over the last twenty years, and they
all got they all wish you'd be amazed how many
people can relate to what we're talking about up here.
But it also it takes the breath away when when
we come into a group of people and folks want
to take shots about something they don't know nothing about.
You know, it's like it's my right to be ten

(04:42):
years dry in alcoholics Anonymous bone powdered dry, miserable with
me contemplating suicide or homicide on a daily basis. But
that's but that's perfectly okay. And it makes me sad
to watch because because Bill Wilson paints a completely different
picture out of the book and we're gonna we're gonna
talk about it some tomorrow. He talked about a program
where we can be absolutely free and and and comfortable

(05:05):
in our skin and excited about our lives. I mean,
how sad it is that because some of us speak
with passion from the podium, that we're the controversial ones
you follow. I mean, says I said, Katy said this something,
she said, I feel comfortable in these rooms. I got
to tell you, I feel comfortable in this room because
I know so many of you, you know, and I

(05:25):
mean people that usually ask us to speak or not
people that I mean, we get the big book thumpers.
We mess them out, you know, and so we're all
kind of in the same trench. But I mean, guys,
I've set meetings where I felt lost as we go
around and share and I'm listening and I says what
what I was in a meeting in San Antonio not
long ago, and I was talking to some of you

(05:46):
all about it, and I'd been on a bike ride
down and down by the Alamo and if The Alamo's
on Houston Street. Some of y'all come for the international
and next week and we'll we'll show you the Alamo.
It's pretty cool little place. But you can go left,
like east of town, straight out Houston and you'll see
in some of the part some of the poorest parts
of San Antonio is really sad, you know, with us.

(06:07):
And I'm out riding bike down that road and I'm
the tour in the neighborhoods and it's just the poverty
in the and the just the blatant public drug abuse
and alcoholism. You'll follow and I says, God, I want
to go to a meeting. I am so grateful that
I'm in a fellowship twenty two years sober, and I've
got a place to go and we can talk about
the steps in God. Anyway, I go to this meeting
I'd never been to before, and there's a c a

(06:29):
meeting and I was going to go to the earlier meeting.
I says, is there's a meeting upstairs? And this guy
stands at the door and he says, yes. I said, Okay,
what time does it start? Seven thirty? Where he's just upstairs.
I mean he's irritable, irritated, you know. And I walk

(06:50):
upstairs and I walk into the room and there's a
little circle triangle sitting on the floor. It's a little
tager sitting on the floor. And I walk in. I said, well,
that's the meeting. And I walk in. There's ten or
fifteen people in there. Actually there's eleven because I counted.
There's not a big book in the place. I've got
my big book because I brought it because I'm going
to an AA meeting. You'll follow, and we read how
it works, and there's a living there's a living sober

(07:10):
book there. Oh my god, I guess I knew we
were in the right room. Now I want to puke.
And they got a daily reflection. Blah blah blah, buth.
We don't have a big book in the place, right,
So we go around the room when we start to share,
and it dawns on me because nobody's talking about the
steps or God or alcoholism. You'll follow. I'm thinking, if
I was a newcomer in this meeting, what would I think?

(07:32):
What message would I get? You'll follow? You know, flashback
to nineteen eighty when I went to my first alcoholics
Anonymous meeting and walked up the steps and they says, Chris,
do you have a problem with alcohol? And I said yes,
and they said welcome. And that's the last we talked
about it. You know, somebody lady was having a problem
in the relationship, and we did. We talked about boundaries
for an hour and I went home and I said, Honey,

(07:53):
we need to go to therapy. We need to set
some boundaries up in our relationship. And I said she said,
She said, I thought you were going there to stop drinking.
And said, yeah, I know, but we never got around
to talking about that. Maybe tomorrow night. God, I'm mighty,
Oh my gosh. So in the short time I got
with you, I mean, I'll give you the little gist
of what we're going on, but I just want to

(08:14):
share with you, guys, man, my story. It's my experience.
If it doesn't jibe with your experience, buddy, that's just okay.
I got to tell you. In the United States, some
of y'all have heard me talk about this before, but
you know, we went through some major transitions in the
seventies and eighties in the treatment center field in the
United States, and we scooped up a big ol'd net
out there for a long time, and we caught everything

(08:36):
we could catch you with US insurance companies paying like
slot machines back in the States and back there in
the day, and we got every y'all know, any of
y'all ever sing fish? Y'all ever? Did you know? I
never know what you're gonna pull in, you know, And
the smart people they'll keep the fish they want and
they'll throw the rest of the way. Alcoholics Anonymous didn't
do that. You know. We caught every little fruitcake and
knucklehead in the world, every little every little disco drunk

(08:59):
and party animal. You just scooped them up. Well, if
you think you might have a problem with alcohol, you're welcome.
How cool is that, you know? And they come into
the meetings and they don't anymore have a problem without
call than a man in the moon. Y'all understand. But
they're here and they're staying, and they're the vocal majority

(09:20):
in our fellowship today. You can get upset about it
if you want. But at a certain point in our
history of alcoholics, Anonymous, we stop qualifying the alcoholic. I'm
an alcoholic. If I say I'm an alcoholic, No, you're not.

(09:47):
I've seen these people's Facebook pages. They suck. I don't
know what they tell you you're a member of Alcoholics Anonymous.
If you say you are, you'll follow what I'm saying.
Anybody can be a member of our fellowship, and I'm
not saying anybody can't. You're welcome. But the book spins
the first one hundred pages trying to explain to you
the twelve steps. Sixty of those pages, it qualifies. The
alcoholic walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. It's

(10:10):
a ducky living. And why we have such just weird
meeting sometimes is that we got a room that was
set up for ducks, and everybody's in there thinking they're cats,
you know, And and so everything gets a little a little
confused and little a little goofy and this stuff. You
can share anything you want, blah blah blah. But you guys,
we're dying of this fatal progressive illness. Alcoholics Anonymous is

(10:31):
the only game in town. I was talking to somebody
the other day and they said, oh, I bet you're
excited about everybody coming into It's San Antonio. You know,
it's in my backyard. I mean, the international converse. I'm
gonna tell you, I'm dreading it. I'm loving it because
I get to hug all my little little little real
alcoholic little my little god gosh, my brothers and sisters

(10:53):
in this fellowship. I get to know. But how this
place is not gonna be people by them. It's gonna
be people by the little one liners from hell. Oh,
I get the hug over one day at a time. Mike, Oh,
my god, who hasn't sponsored anybody in twenty years, but

(11:16):
he goes to a meeting every day. Y'all follow can't
hardly wait. I just I don't know, I don't know.
What we're starting to see is the same thing that

(11:37):
Charlie and them were saying. And Katie was saying, we're
seeing these little pockets grow up all over the world, folks, uh,
little little groups of folks that have that have come
out of the closet with big books and dusted them
off and said, you know what we're gonna We're gonna
start talking about the solution the way they did in
the olden days, and and we're gonna get us some
little knuckleheads to come with us, and we're gonna And
I got to tell you guys, you, some of you
folks that I've met in here Scott and here I

(11:58):
met early, early, early, early on in Toronto a gazillion
years ago. But I'm gonna tell you we took so
many shots for talking about the Big Book from the podium.
I mean, people get pissed, you know. I mean, now
I'm not irritated with us, and the world has changed
a bunch and there's so much more of us out there.
Why because, guys, guess what the best kept secret, which

(12:19):
is in the Big Book, the twelve steps we're finding
that actually works. We're got We're got cats that are
they're so pumped about this work. That's what we're gonna
be talking about tomorrow. And that's it's gonna be uncomfortable
for some of you because because you're you're so what's
the word, Yeah, I wouldn't exactly use that word, but

(12:39):
rigid comes to mind. I can give you an I'll
give you a classy example. You know, when we talk
about the newcomer where we want you to be open
minded and willing, you know, and we talk about the newcomer,
but what about the twenty twenty two year sober guy?
How come you but you don't have to be open minded,
just the new guy. I mean, it's just like when
when does the journey stop? We were laughing. Our little

(13:02):
big book study coincides and we were reading with a
bunch of little mad dogs last night in Bill's Story.
And I've read Bill's Story a million times. I come
from a group where we study the literature over and over.
And I'm sitting up there and I got forty guys
in the room and we've got our little books open,
and we're reading Bill's Story. And now I'm not going
to tell you which line it is because you'll go
God damgn. I thought he knew something. He's stupid. But
I read this line and it took my breath away

(13:23):
because I had never seen it before. I'd never noticed
it from that direction before. And this is what I mean.
The book speaks to us the longer we're sober. I
used to be one of these big this Microsoft. At work,
we use the microscoft Soft systems, and I had a
computer at home. It's the same kind of deal you

(13:45):
with us. And I had a friend in Phoenix that
kept saying, Chris, you ought to try one of these
macs sometimes and we just have a little little cop
just like I was such a snot. I just listen,
go mack yourself. I'm not interested in that, you know.
I mean, I've got this. This works, It's great. I
know how to do it. I've got kind of a
narrow understanding anyway. I know how to turn the bastard
on now and off and that's it. So but anyway,

(14:07):
I was stuck in Scotland. We're speaking in Scotland, and
the hotel rooms had a Macintosh computer in there. And
it was like I called down to the recept I says,
this room didn't have a TV in it? Can I
move to it? They said, it's on the computer, you know,
And so he just he said, punch this, punch this,
punch this. All of a sudden, I've got a TV.
I got email. I got it, and I'm I'm I mean,

(14:27):
I'm whizzing on this thing, right. I email Patty back
in the States in Texas, I says, Buddy, listen, we
really need to looking to get in one of these.
You know. It was like, y'all understand what I'm saying.
I'm it's a perfect analogy. I'm so rigid. This is
the way it's got to be. And then all of
a sudden you open your mind to the possibility that
maybe perhaps something else could be better. Mark used to

(14:54):
jam me up. He used to talk about my agnostic
belief systems. Of course I was a Christ. I was
raising the Baptist Church, and oh my gosh, I'm not
an agnostic. And he said, Christ, you're the most agnostic
person I know. You'll follow because I believe there's a God.
I just don't think he wants to have anything to
do with me. I'm always worried about money, I'm always
worried about relationships. I'm always worried about you. With this,

(15:14):
I'm just God hates me this. And he just he
kept talking to I said, don't you think that God
could take you to a to a different place. The
miracle doesn't stop because we stop drinking. This is that's
the beginning. Sobriety, that's the that's the that's the beginning
of our journey. And unfortunately, in our fellowships, we've gotten

(15:35):
to a plate in all of our fellowships, we've gotten
to a place where that seems to be good enough
and it's not. I mean, we're gonna touch on it
this weekend. It's just it is so not. Mark used
to say over and over, I smell more. I smell
A lot of people heard him say it. You know,
I smell more. And it's in that that's and that's

(15:56):
the true. It just takes a little effort to get
to it. And that's what this is about. It doesn't
take year as much effort as you think. I was
a professional chef for a million years and was pretty
good at it. I wasn't such a good cook, but
I was really quick. And when I found other some
of those outside issues, I got quicker. We can stay

(16:19):
up all night long and clean and cook and chop
and everybody goes, oh my god, you're a super chef.
What's that white stuff all over your No, And I
don't know. And we're drinking like son of a gun anyway,
And you know, I had some Europeans that took me
under their wings and taught me some cool stuff, and
it was pretty talented. And I come from a great family, folks.
I mean, I got to tell you Mom and dad

(16:40):
they were wonderful. And my father was an alcoholic and uh,
and I've got a twin brother that caught the genetic
bullet guys, we're going to talk about it this tomorrow.
And first step stuff alcoholism and drug addiction, both, folks,
is genetic in nature. I mean, the jury's in on this.
This is this is biological, not psychological. And I know
a lot of you guys we want to disagree. Doesn't

(17:01):
mean that we can't use some psychological help too, But
this is you gotta be wired this way to be
one of us. This and looking at everybody, looking at
each other, Everybody got really uncomfortable because you've been sitting
in meetings pissing and moaning about the bad thing that
caused you to drink. And I'm not gonna knock any
of that, my friends, please, I love you. That stuff

(17:22):
exacerbated it and made it worse, but it didn't cause it.
Good therapy can get you past that. Some great medications
can help you with some of this other stuff. You
with us at a certain point in time, I've done
all the medications, I've done all the therapy you with us,
and I'm still thirsty, Oh my gosh. And this is

(17:43):
a hard piece to get people because we didn't teach
that in the seventies and eighties. We didn't teach that
we taught that this was causal. You with us, this
little patience coming to the hospital, and they're just so confused.
We get them in primary, we get them all detox,
and we tell them, man, man, listen, alcoholism is a disease. Guys,
you're not bad, You're sick. And they start to get
some hope and you can hear them in there on
the phones talking to their family. Oh my god, you're

(18:04):
not gonna believe this, buddy, there's some hope here. I've
got this illness that's causing me to do this, and
they get really excited. You with us. Then they go
to their first day in primary after out of primary,
and there they're sitting there with their first case manager, right,
and the case manager just says, so, Chris, tell me
why you drink? Because I got a disease. I'm an alcoholic.

(18:25):
Wrong answer, why do you drink? Really, y'all understand all
the air just got pulled out of him. Sh And
now we're back to causele y'all understand this. We gotta
turn this round. Sooner or later. We got to get

(18:46):
back into the literature and understand what this is about.
If anybody in here please has just heard me say
that your external stuff is not important. You've heard me wrong.
It needs to be addressed, It needs to be looked at.
It will stop you from following the dictates of the
higher powertals stop you from finishing this work. It needs
to be addressed. But we've killed thousands and thousands of
alcoholics and attics over the years in treatment centers. By

(19:09):
making that the issue and not the spiritual malady makes sense.
We never got down to the causes and conditions. Exactly
what Katie was talking about the root of my problem
twenty two years ago was selfish and self centeredness, and
let me be the first to tell you today it
is still the same selfish and self centeredness. That's what
ruins my day. I haven't had a drink in twenty

(19:31):
two years, but that's you know, with us, that's the illness,
that's the untreated. Why are we seeing such an influx
We're gonna talk about it a bunch tomorrow of people
with long term sobriety who are losing their sobriety. You
with us proving positive that just going to meetings doesn't
solve the problem. Not Kno could go into meetings. Hell,
I still go to a lot of meetings myself. But
the meetings are not what's going to fix the problem.

(19:53):
It's it's the work we do. Nineteen eighty seven, I
I I'd been drinking. Uh, that was what we would
call a functioning alcoholic. I got a a lot of
this other outside issue stuff happening and taking place in
my life. But I'm holding it together pretty well. And
I am not robbing liquor stores or or going to

(20:14):
jail or getting in a lot of a lot of trouble.
I had a little some some some run in some scrapes,
don't you know, you know, But I bounce back pretty well.
And uh, and I'm and I'm dodging that nonsense, but
I am miserable inside. You'll you'll follow, And I'm spent
seven years and Alcoholics Anonymous trying to address this. Every
time I get my butt handed to me. One more time,
I walk back into Alcoholics Anonymous and pick up another chip,

(20:37):
and then we sit down and we start talking about
your day again, because that's gonna help me stay sover.
And then we'll go out to the picnic table and
you'll tell me your story one more time about how
many people you chopped up putting plastic bags and buried
out by the gym. And okay, and I you know,
not getting this, do you know what I'm saying. I
appreciate your sincerity, and I appreciate the love that you

(20:59):
shared with me in that meeting, but I can't stay
sober listening to your stuff. People are trying to be
so kind to me and so gentle with me that
they won't tell me what to do. Y'all understand that
most people are are are explained when they come to
our fellowship, that the steps are an option, that it's

(21:20):
that it's it's something that eventually, if you want to downstream,
you can do. I gotta tell you a quick story
because I just got back on the bicycles again. I
sold all my bikes stuff years ago because I was
gonna move beyond that and IM and I missed it
so much I went and bought it all back, you know.
So that's the nature of the beast. You should see

(21:41):
what I got now. But anyway, I drive a twenty
year old pickup truck, but bully this bicycle. It's something else.
I gotta tell you. But when I first started riding
bikes early on, right after I got sober in the
in the in the early nineties, I went to this
bike shop with this guy, this big bee forget some
of you my buds in here like it. And we're

(22:03):
riding with these guys and they're old athletes and I okay,
so and I'm not. I'm a little skinny guy and
I've always been that way. And then so we go
into this bike shop and the guy looks at me
and says, we'll set you up on this bike, but
I tell you what I'm gonna do, and I'll never
forget it. He looked both ways and he said, well,
we're gonna give you some different gears than he has.

(22:23):
And I'm thinking, bitch, oh, come up walk. Yeah, Oh
this sounds good. He said, Chris, it's no big deal.
But what we're gonna do is we're gonna give you
some lighter stuff to push so that you won't have
to work as hard as he'll have to work, and
you can keep up better. I'm thinking, God, I came
to the right bike shop. This, this guy really helping
me out. You know, there wasn't anything in me that

(22:44):
believed that this guy wasn't doing me the biggest favor
in the world. You follow what I'm saying. Paid extra
for these little pussy gears he put on my bike.
Y'all know where this is going. We went out and
started riding with these hammer heads, and they're all out
there hammer like this, pulling standard gears, and I've got
these little lightweight gears. And the guy that can't seem

(23:04):
to catch up, that can't seem to improve, is me.
And I'm so frustrated because I really want to get better.
I can't get better because I won't work as hard
as they're working, because the guy let me off the hook.
And that's what we've done in Alcoholics Anonymous for years.
We've tiptoed. This is what we do with a newcomer.

(23:35):
I know, let the tape show. I just tiptoe. I
don't know. I'm just we're gonna do a panamime lecture tomorrow,
Oh my god. But that's what we do with the newcomer.
We want to tiptoe around. We want to tiptoe around.
We don't want to tell them. I mean, how many

(23:55):
times have you gone into a meeting and somebody said, listen,
don't worry about working those steps. Now. This is how
the newcomer gets so confused. The guys would come up
with me and the little I never forget him as
long as I live. Is up in Dentton, Texas. And
he had an old beat up book and have duct
tape around it. You know, it was the covers coming
off of it. And he starts to slide up next
to me and talk to me about the you know,
and lady goes, come here like this and I go

(24:16):
over it and see what he says. Don't go near
that guy. He's one of those big book thumpers. Listen,
all you need to do is just go to a
lot of meetings and everything's gonna be okay. Do you
just promise me you'll come to lots of meetings okay?
And I said, oh, I will ninety meetings and ninety
I can do that. You're with me. Was that lady

(24:39):
trying to hurt me? No, she wasn't. She loved me dearly.
She was trying to save me the headache of doing
a nasty old fourth step she never had to do
in order to stay sober. How did this lady stay sober?
She went to ninety meetings in ninety days. You're with us?
But she wasn't a real life aholic. She didn't need

(25:01):
to work the steps, she didn't have to have a
spiritual experience in order to do this. Y'all understand, this
is what the book trying to tell us. On page
thirty four, Bill Wilson says it crystal clear. If you
can stay sober on a non spiritual basis, you're not
one of us. Most people can stay sober on a
non spiritual basis. Whip them good, Threaten them with an arrest,

(25:22):
you with me a divorce, Let their livers start to
crawl out of their chest, and they'll say, you know what,
it's just fixing the quit. And they'll put the old
play on the jug and they'll walk away from that
stuff and they'll be done because they have the power
to do that. You with us fear can keep those
people sober. Wanting to stay sober is good enough for them.
Needing to stay sober is good enough for them. Nineteen

(25:46):
eighty seven. I gotta tell you, folks, I've lost three
businesses and my health is is horrendous. I'm hearing voices.
Psychiatry has placed me on seven medications a day, and
a depressants, anti anxiety medications, some kind of suppository thing.
I still don't know what that was. I'm done so

(26:08):
many medications. I'm glowing, y'all understand it. And I'm drinking
on top of that, and when I can come up
with the money, I'm doing a little little some of
them outside issue stuff. You'll follow what I'm saying. And
I am miserable. I hate my life. What Charlie said
a minute ago was so true. You know, you drink
or drug in the beginning, and it's just like, oh shit,
where's this vent on my life? You know this is good.

(26:28):
You know it's seventeen years old. I drank my first
bottle of Boons Farm apple wine was about this big
right here, and I'm walking back across that field. In
my head says, you know what, it's gonna be okay.
You know, for the first time in my life, I'm
gonna I'm gonna be okay. And that's just I've The
effect produced by alcohol is not drunkenness. That's not what

(26:52):
the book is talking about. The effect is a sense
of ease and comfort. I get well when I drink,
And everybody wants to focus on the fact that this
is the problem. If you'll just quit drinking, everything will
be okay. It was okay for that lady that told
me not to work the steps, but for the real alcoholic,
you lay the booge down, your life is gonna go
to hell in a handbasket because we're not dealing with

(27:15):
a problem with alcohol. We're dealing with alcoholism. I'm seven
years of alcoholics anonymous, and nobody'll explain that to me.
Why is it that more of us commit suicide in
sobriety than we do out there drinking and drugging. Because
we don't get better when we just don't drink one

(27:36):
stupid day at a time. We get better when we
have a spiritual experience and the obsession to use is
lifted from us. We have treatment centers out there killing
people today, telling them all they got to do is,
which is avoid temptation triggers and everything will be okay.
And every time we talk about this all over the world,

(27:57):
everybody laughs the same way, and then they go right
back in meetings and talk about it some more. You're
with us every time you relapse, we're gonna find out
what happened, what triggered you. You know what happened you
didn't work the steps, and have a spiritual experience. That's
what happened. That's the bottom line. There's only two reasons

(28:18):
that you will absolutely relapse. You don't know what the
problem is, or you don't know what the solution is.
Some of you will just disagree. But if you'll think
about that tonight, laying in bed, think about it. God damn,
the little one eyed guy's right. You don't know the
solution and you don't know what the problem is. You'll follow. Okay,
it's like taking my car. It's broke. The mechanic sense

(28:40):
what's wrong with it. It's just it's broke. You gotta
get what what's wrong with it. That's what we do
in AA. You with us. A little guy comes in,
I'm broke, but we don't tell the guy what's wrong
with him. That the spiritual malady is gonna kick his
but that alcoholism of progressive illness is fixing the reach

(29:02):
up and grab him in the button. This is gonna
get worse. Y'all understand where we're at. We need to
slow down. This is the first thing we're going to
talk about in the morning and explain to the newcomer
what's wrong with them so that they can have this
urgency to finish the work. If you think you've got
time to do the work, folks, then you don't understand
what the problem is, because it's grinding us up, buddies.

(29:24):
This is why we're losing so many old time members
in the Fellowship. In nineteen eighty seven, I'm sitting in
a small little apartment that my sister in law co
signed for me and up in Louisville, Texas. And it's
a little efficiency apartment about the size of this podium.
Not much really, not much of an exaggeration, guys. And

(29:47):
it's a cold Thursday night. And I bought a twelve
pack of beer and went home and picked up a
stack of return checks and opened them up, and there's
the rent check in there. And here I am again.
I'm thirty five years old and I bankrupted another checking account.
Y'all know what it is. I own a business on paper.
I've got a little screenprint business, and I'm working for
my twin brother and I'm a credited chef. I could
go make a bunch of money, but I've got a

(30:08):
couple hundred dollars in the bank. I'm living from paycheck
to paycheck. You with us I'm gonna be on the
street if something doesn't happen quick. And I've just done.
I've done treatment, I've done therapy, I've done the church.
I've done at seven years of meeting maker, make it,

(30:28):
I've done. I've got more desire chips, and you can
shake a stick at last time I picked up a
desire chip, Nobody applauded. Allow. I am just wearing them out,
you know what I'm saying, because they know that I'm
not gonna stay sober. You just don't want it bad enough.
You just don't want it bad enough. Not one of

(30:49):
those guys ever told me to sit down and do
the work, Not one of them. That's my story. I
took a bottle of pills that night, two bottles of value,
that's what I took, and if I remember correctly, and
I washed it down with some black label. And about
the time those pills hit my stomach, I heard a
voice and said, don't do this. Go back to AA.
And I don't come from a family that takes this

(31:11):
kind of stuff lightly. Y'all understand that I got a
beautiful family. But there's no note, there's no there's no
drama here. I just I am sick and tired of
being a loser, because that's not who my daddy raised.
And oh my gosh, you know, family members, they think
we don't know what we're doing. I got to tell you, folks,
there's times that's true, but mostly anytime that stuff hit

(31:32):
my stomach. And I heard this voice that said, don't
do this, go back to AA. And I heard it
voice twice rapid succession. Chris, don't do this, go back
to AA. Not a thought, you know, Chris, perhaps you
should go back to AA. There was not that. Chris,
don't do this, go back to AA's the voice I heard,
and it freaked me out. And I've talked to a

(31:52):
lot of other people that have heard similar things. But
I the hair stood straight up on the back of
my neck, and I made myself sick, and I lay
down on the side of the bed and heard the
boy and again, and I dozed off, comped out, passed out,
and I luckily I woke up the next day and
I heard the voice one nice time that morning as
I got out of bed, don't do this, go back
to AA. And I was so sick. I was so

(32:13):
banged up, and I went to the doctor and I
went to work, and at six o'clock that night, I
went to a meeting i'd never been to before. I
knew where it was because a guide showed me. Some
of you guys that think these twelve step things don't
pay off. This guy had showed me where this meeting was.
Three years earlier. He'd showed me. I was coming out
of a blackout, and I called him on the phone
and he took me to a meeting in Louisville, Texas,

(32:34):
and he said, Chris, he says, this is a nest
right here, A big book thump fer fools in there,
he said. He said, don't go in there if you
just want to go to meetings and get a date,
because that's not what they're about. They studied the book
in there. And I remember I'm smiling, thinking that's good
to know, you know, and I remember making a mental note,
I'll die before I'll go into that meeting. I mean,
I'm just like, thanks for the warning, you know. I mean,

(32:56):
I'm not going to do that. You'll never get laid
in a group like that. I mean, why else, why
else would you go? And I, oh my gosh, but
I was running late, you know how, God was all
over this little brother just said it inches and seconds
and some of these things. And I was running late,
and I couldn't go back up to this other town
to go to this meeting where I used to go,
and so I was gonna I'm gonna stop off, get
a cup of coffee, let some people know that I'm

(33:17):
back in the program again, and then I'm gonna go
on home, you know. And I walked in the back
door of this meeting and they were just like we're doing.
They're laughing their butts off. Some of y'all have heard CDs.
I've talked about it. They're they're all this. Back in
the day, we could smoke in meetings, and they've all
got six or seven cigarettes out of their mouths. And
on you bour of those guys. We ruined it for you,
you new guys. That's all I can say. We just

(33:38):
smoked one. Well we didn't. Everybody's smoking too much. Ceiling's
dropping down, and I'm walking in the room, and I
wish I could describe what I looked like. I never
just I always look a little rough anyway, but that
you big full beard I had, and I always had
food in it. And you know that big long hair.
And that was the big joke when I got sober.
It was that we didn't know if you were wearing
an eyepecher and ear muff, you know, because just just

(34:05):
hard to look cool like that. I gotta tell you, you
know what I'm and I'm two days without a shower,
you know, and I've got I have two things in
my closet. I got a couple of pieces of a
couple of Levi's and Fruit of the Loop, three Fruit
of the Loom T shirts you're with us. They come
in packets of free in case y'all don't know that
you get a you can get a blue one and
a red one and a green one, you know, and

(34:25):
you get them, you wash them every time in a
little pocket, slides back over towards the middle, you know.
And I'm like, you don't know if you're wearing a
T shirt or like pretending you're a kangaroo or something,
you know, when you got to lit the little puppe,
And here I am with these little T shirts, all sweatstained.
I haven't bathe you with us. I mean, I'm banged
up and I'm walking in and they're laughing, and you
know how we get. The word is hyper vigilant. Y'all

(34:47):
know what I'm talking about. You can get very sil
conscious about who you are and what you are. And
they're laughing, and I'm just I'm checking my zipper and
a patch and I what are they laughing? I know
they're laughing. They're not laughing at me. They're laughing. Something
else is going on in the meeting. There's thirty people
in that room with us. And I said, I can't
do this. I'm detoxing in this meeting. I'm right at
twenty four hours away from my suicide attempt. And I

(35:10):
took one step back and this little girl snuck up.
She swear she didn't sneak up on me. I didn't
see her. She came up on my blindside and walked.
I stepped back on her foot. She got her finger
in my belt loop. And I've shared it from every
podium I've ever talked from. Guys, this is a little
nineteen year old girl in alcoholics Anonymous doing what she
was supposed to be doing. You with us, you can't
work with men. If she'd have been off in a

(35:33):
little young adult meeting talking about young adult things, I'd
have been dead. If it had been an old boy
you with me, I'd have just shoved you out of
the way. She'd sit down, cowboy, you ain't going nowhere.
And she set me down in a chair and I
sat boom boom. She's still sober today and I am
today because she gave it, because she cared. Her sponsor

(35:57):
couldn't get to me. His long, narrow room and her
sponsorship all me leave, turn around to walk out, and
she said get him, and she got me. You'll see
how that worked. How God's gonna use We think we're
so smart. You know, I don't know. I don't know
who I can help. You got that right. Your job
is to show up and just be there. Oh my gosh. Anyway,

(36:18):
they sat down and the chairperson saw me and gave
me the high sign he'd see me in North Texas
for years, and gave me a big o up, you know,
welcome back. And they said done. Chairperson took charge of
the meeting. You know, it's the same old stuff. You know,
it's like, freaked me out. First time I've ever seen
a chairperson do that. You know what I'm saying. You
got a guy in they're practically dead in the back
of the room. Oh, we got a newcomer. But I
think tonight we're gonna talk about relationships. I don't know

(36:45):
what it is about it. We either want to talk
about relationships or let's tell Chris how we got here.
It's like, buddy, I know, let me guess, let me guess.
Oh shit, let me guess. You drank too much? What
are we what are we doing? Oh my gosh, like
you're gonna scare me into the rooms again, you know,
Oh my gosh. They didn't do that. They said, Chris
is back in again. We're gonna go around the room.

(37:06):
You guys that have worked the twelve Steps, let's share
with this guy how our lives have changed as a
result of work in the steps. You with us? Wow?
Yeah that translates to those of you in the room
that haven't worked the steps. Yeah, be quiet, proper, terminus

(37:32):
pat pat. But again, it's like Mark used to say,
I wish people when they share their opinions, would say
in a meeting, I'm sharing my opinion because the little
newcomer coming in the door doesn't know that. It's that
you don't know. You with us? How many times have
you guys have been in a four step meeting of
the little guy comes around. He's just got out of trebles.
Well I haven't done a four step, but this is
what I you know. No, no, no, no, no, shut up,

(37:52):
be quiet, be quiet, talk about what you know, talk
about what you have experience with, because that's what the
newcomers to gravitate too. They went around the room that
night and they talked about getting their money back. They
talked about getting credit cards and getting married and buying
houses and doing all the cool stuff. I'm less than
twenty four hours away from a suicide attempt to right,
and this guy's giving me the one thing this room

(38:14):
is sharing, the one thing that I need more than anything,
and that's hope. Hope. Can you wake up in the
morning and not obsess about alcohol? What I mean, what
a concept? And yet we want to paint this picture
that every day is the day you might drink. Whoever

(38:34):
got up earliest today is is sober? The longest I
beg to by God differ? Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.
Again we're candy coat. What kind of hope is that
to give to the newcomer? Why the hell stays sober
a week and you're gonna lose it anyway. Oh my gosh,

(38:56):
good Heaven, there's no higher ear. It doesn't mean we're better,
but good god, that's what we need. The old timers
back in the rooms, sharing their sobriety dates, picking up
chips to show us that this thing works. I know
I can stay sober a week. I've done it a
thousand times. It's that month that I'm having a little
problem with. Took me seven years to pick up a

(39:17):
thirty day chip, y'all you'll follow the next day. That night,
the guy got around me and he asked me if
I was ready to stay sober for good and for all,
not one day at a time, for good and for all.
He said, we're going to show you how to live
life one day at a time. Are you ready to
do this? And I said yes, And the next day
they were on my doorstep. I hated that shit, you know,

(39:39):
with this, because I've forgotten a lot of that stuff.
I mean, I know what I said last night, baby,
But this morning and I'm running around cut offs looking
for my patch, you know, and who the hell's out there?
And it's the guys from AAI, and you know the look,
you know, he's got a little book. You've got it.

(40:00):
I'm going quick. He's got a little big book and
he's oh no, and he says, I'm supposed to bring
you back up, and he did. He took me back
up to the meeting. We went to a ten o'clock
meeting and we went in the back room. We chased
a bunch of alanines out of their back room, out
of their meeting room. After the meeting, and we got
back down there and we did A guy asked me
if I had a problem with God, and I said, no,
not a bit. And he said he explained the third
step prayer. And we did a third Step prayer and

(40:21):
we went to lunch and came back. He gave me
a notebook, says, hey, let's start working on that fourth step.
And I said, mom, man, I'm not ready for that.
He said, buddy, you've had seven years to get ready.
Start making a list of the people you're pissed at.
And I said, your name's on it. You know that,
and he did, and he did exactly what we're doing

(40:41):
right now. He laughed. He said, yeah, I know. I
suspect it will be for a while too. And he said,
but I love you, buddy, and I want you to
get well, and you're not gonna get well if you
just sit on your butt. You got us get into
some action. And two weeks later, I'm sitting on the
tailgate of my truck and it dawns on me that
if the obsession to drink is lifted two weeks in
and I am and I've recovered from alcoholism and drug addiction,

(41:05):
and the obsession to drinking drug is now that we
turn guys the same miracle that took place in Bill
Wilson and Doctor Bob's life. These guys working the steps
quickly and they come out the other side and the
obsession went away. And I know there's some of you
in here that are still fighting this on a regular basis,
and the desire continues to come back. And I'm telling

(41:25):
you that's that's not Let's do the work because there's
a reason for that. And that's just what we try
to teach people in treatment centers. And the guys that
I sponsor says, let's get its cause and condition. The
Big Book says, a price has got to get paid.
It means that we got to start distructing this self centeredness,
and that's how we work the steps. My ego is
so huge, guys, we're going to talk about it tomorrow.

(41:46):
And that's what the steps do, is they keep my
ego right size. I don't want to be better than y'all.
Y'all understand that. Don't ever hear me that I'm twenty
two years sober and I'm better, No, come on. But
I don't want to be worse than you either. And
that's where I spent all of my I could walk
in used to go drink in an ice house down
there on in Houston. You know what an ice house is,
Old Bear Joined on the street and they pull up

(42:07):
the garage door and everybody sits out in front and drinks,
and you know, I'm out there. And I always would
put a tie on before I would go into this
ice house so I would be look better than these guys.
I'm hoping none of them knew it was a clip
on tie, you know what I'm saying. But that's the
way it was with me. Because of my ego, I'm
either better than you or worse than you. And it's
all the same, len it's all the same thing that's

(42:30):
gonna block me from you, and eventually it's gonna block
me from God, and by working the steps, I got
spiritually connected. Guys. Hadn't been easy. My life has not
been easy. It's been wonderful journey, but there's been some
huge sadnesses in there and some trauma and good God,
but I get to walk through it with your help,
with grace and dignity. I wanted to commit suicide in

(42:51):
sobriety one time, around a divorce. It was a tragic deal.
There was a little step son involved and that was
just it broke my heart. But not once did I
want a drink or drug because the tense that promises
had come true. It had placed me in a position
of neutrality and somehow, Guys, we've got to get a
whole bunch of people trying to represent this program the

(43:12):
way it's supposed to be represented. This is about power,
This is about permanent by God's sobriety. This is about sobriety,
being able to walk through stuff with grace and dignity
and come out the other side and not walking on
eggshells worried about the day you're going to wake up
and think about drinking. That's you understand where I'm at,

(43:33):
And it's not the picture that is usually presented by
Hollywood about alcoholics anonymous. We're a punchline of a stupid jokes, folks,
because the message has been so dead gum watered down,
it's not even funny. And we as a fellowship need
to grab this thing back seventy five years old. We're
damn near lost it. And what we're going to talk
about tomorrow is how we can work these steps and

(43:53):
if you'll come back tomorrow with an open mind about
this and ask questions and bring a little notebook, and
if we say something that doesn't ring true to you
or confuses you, let's talk about it. Let's visit about it.
We can do it, question and answer from the podium.
We can also do it in at the breaks if
you don't want to with us, if you're too shy
to ask. It's it's not complicated information we're covering, but

(44:16):
it does. It goes against what a lot of us
have been taught. And that's and that's that's what makes
us uncomfortable. You with us. I'm gonna say this and shut.
I cannot tell you how many times we've we've had
these workshops and we've talked to people and people get uncomfortable,
and they come back down and says, well, my sponsor said,
h well, my case manager said. And I'm not knocking

(44:39):
any of that case managers or sponsors or whatever, but
but Mark used to say, if you can't reconcile it
with what's in the big book, you might want to
hold it suspect. Or how's this working for you? Because
you're gonna hear some things new, You're gonna hear some
things that may go against what you've been doing in
the past. But if with a little open minded us
it might work a little bit better, it might change

(44:59):
your life. And that's what we certainly hope to do.
I'll say this because I know some of you guys
are not going to be here tomorrow. You've got work
to do and things going and you didn't plan to
do it. But I got to tell you, any of
you that can join us, we'd love to have you.
Those of you that can't, I mean absolutely

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Chris R. - AA Speaker - Saving Our Lives

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