Chris R. and Myers R. - AA Speakers - Our Common Solution - THE M2 THE ROCK SHOW - Michael Molthan

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
My name is Steven. I'm an alcoholic. We're not gonna
do any amount of readings or anything. We're gonna try
to get this thing going pretty quick. So ask everybody
to raise stand and uh, we'll say this ranety prayer.
God to accept things I cannot change, courage change things

(00:27):
I can, and with them to know the difference. If
you have any cell phones, we asked how you please
turn them off, and if you have urge to talk
to the person beside you, if you're in the meeting,
we ask that you please do that outside so you're
not disrupting the people around you. And we're just gonna
hand this over to the two brothers.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hey, y'all, well now morning. It always freaks me out
when anybody shows up to these things. We didn't doing
any things for years, and it's just amazing. I just
like laying the right or go to that stinking meeting,
lay in the rack, or go to that thinking meeting.
And I'm always gonna pick laying the rack. I'm telling
you right now, I just can't. God bless you, man.

(01:10):
I was just thinking when he was talking about this
turning the cell phone thing off always, I'm afraid I'm
gonna I'm gonna leave mine on and do something like that.
The the UH. I was in New York a couple
of weeks ago doing a talk, and I had left
my cell phone in my briefcase sitting next to a
box of altoids, you know, those little in a little
metal box, And that thing went off and that thing
I had it on vibrate and it sounded like a

(01:30):
big rattlesnake inside that briefcase like that, and it was
the most disconcerting. I'm trying to talk like this and
ignore it, and nobody's ignoring it. I'm just like, oh God,
you could have just stopped. Stop. Do what for? Guys
I didn't meet last night. My name is Mirus Raymer,

(01:53):
and I'm an alcoholicy. We're talking about chapter two of
Common Solution UH this morning, and it's a it's a
great it's my very favorite chapter in the big book.
There's Bill introduces us to a whole bunch of great,
brand new ideas, and he's he kind of greases the
skids and sets a whole bunch of things in motion

(02:13):
that that that are gonna unfold over the next couple
of chapters, and it's pretty pretty uh.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Pretty neat stuff. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Some of you guys that are older may remember Crosby, Steels,
Nash and Young used to do a song years ago,
and of all of their songs, there was a line
out of one of those songs that said, confusion has
its costs. And I and I remember. It's funny. I
was talking about this in in Sweden one time and
this guy walked up. The Swedish guy walked up to
me afterwards and he said, yeah, that's from such and

(02:42):
such a song and such and such a disc and
such and such, And I went, how do you know
those things? I mean, I lived it and I don't
know these things, but he knew it.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Confusion has its costs, and it does.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
And that's where we find ourselves sometimes in in uh
in in a around a bunch of areas we seem
to have. It's not that we don't care, because I
think that we do care. It's just that there is
so much information hit us from a lot of different
directions and so and we end up accepting a lot

(03:13):
of things that we talked about it a little bit
last night.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
There's a lot of things that.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Sound good that that that are meant well, but just
aren't real doctrine. And so what we end up with,
for for a lot of us, anyway, what we ended
up with.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
Is this kind of collection of of one liners and
funny things and stories and anecdotes and all kinds of
stuff that become our program that.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
We carry to the new guy. And so we end
up with this sort of crazy, sort of ofstaized, metastasized
deal that just kind of kind of it gets sort
of convoluted. We start over here and and and we
give her the true message, and and because she's not
in the book, she passes it verbally to somebody else,
and somebody else and somebody else, and by the time

(03:57):
we get back over here, it's already begun to change
and and alter, until pretty soon we end up with
this representation of our precious program that bears little resemblance
to what Bill and Bob in the first one hundred
intended for us to get. And that's the reason why
I got kind of excited about the idea of this chapter,
the way it sets itself up in a common solution.

(04:18):
If you got your book, we'll look at this thing,
and I'm going to cover a couple of things and
then Chris is going to get into the meata, the
of the of the the back end of this thing.
But but it's interesting because they they're they're they're asking
us to take a gander at this idea, this concept.
Most of us only got so far as to recognize
the fact that we were all drunks in the room,

(04:39):
that we were just a collection of drunks, and that
was enough to hold us together. And yet at the
bottom of this thing, the feeling of having shared in
the common peril is one element in the powerful cement
which binds us. We all know that, but that in
itself would never have held us together as we are
now joined. The tremendous fact is that every one of
us is that we have discovered a common solution.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
It's it's and so the.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
So the goal, guys and gals, would be if we
could identify the common solution and then let go of
the old ideas. So let's take one little side road
before we get back into this chapter. Okay, th th
this idea that perhaps we could we could actually let
go of some old ideas. First, you have to recognize

(05:25):
the fact that the old ideas may be harming you,
that may be not doing what you think they're doing. Uh,
And that's that's real tough for a lot of us.
It was this was the hardest thing for me to do. Guys,
this was the hardest Once I got into the big
book and started studying its seven years sober, This was
the hardest thing that I had to do.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Was was was.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Gently set aside all the stuff that I thought that
I knew about this program and then began to formulate
a new baseline that everything else would be sifted through.
It's like, well, we say, well, our collective knowledge in
AA is important, and and this is the experience that
we share. I have no argument with any of you
about that our collective experience is important.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Our experiences are important.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
The problem becomes when there is no program out of
our basic text that goes along with the experience to
buffer that. Let me give you an example. I had
this lady that I absolutely adored an AA that used
to talk from the.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Podium all the time or in a meeting.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
She used to talk about how she got sober in
AA by practicing yoga. I love yoga. Listen, I don't.
I don't, I don't, I don't. I have not a
problem in the world with yoga.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
But that's her opinion. You understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
That's her opinion that yoga saved your bacon, and the
preposterous idea that that same thing would save your bacon
may be pushing it to the limit. Right.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
That's that's when we get to a situation where.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
We share an opinion that we mean well that actually
has the power to hurt somebody on down the road.
When we had a basic text that used words like
exactly and precisely, and they were giving its specific constructions,
and yet we were going to ignore those instructions, and
then we were going to just gravitate to the easier,
softer way, which was we'll love each other into AA.
And there's nothing wrong with loving each other in AA.

(07:11):
But there's more there than just that. I'm going to
tell you this, guys, and believe me when I tell
you I thought about this a million times. If love
was enough to get me and keep me in AA,
my mama would have got me, sober Scout's honor.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
She loved me to death, but it was not enough.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Love itself is not enough. It takes action, and it
takes doing some things, and most of them make me
do things that I don't want to do. And that's
why I would rather gravitate to the one liners and
gravitate to the other stuff than you guys know how
that stuff works.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Flip over the page.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
It's interesting it at the bottom of a page, on
page eighteen, it says, but the X problem drinker who
has found this solution, who is properly on with facts
about himself, can generally win the entire confidence of another
alcoholic in a few hours. Until such an understanding as reached,
little or nothing can be accomplished. A first off, note
that this is all in italics, which means Bill and
those cats thought it was important enough to put in italics.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
They don't do it indiscriminately. But look at what it says.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
At the first thing is said, but the X problem
drinker who has found this solution? What is the solution?

Speaker 3 (08:15):
That there was a way to get from A to B,
that there was a way.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
To recover That's that's what they're talking about. And that
was what the book outlined, was how to do this.
It wasn't left up to this free wheeling transference of
all information back and forth. It wasn't that who is
properly on with facts about himself can generally win the
entire confidence. And you guys know and understand this exactly.
How many times have we faced therapy and had no

(08:41):
effect at all? And then we said, in a meeting
and there's some crusty old guy there scratching his rear
in and and talking, and all of a sudden, you go,
holy cow, what did that old dude just say? And
all of a sudden we connect, and we know, here
is a man that understands my condition on a level
that no other man has ever been able to connect. This,
This is this is powerful stuff. And this is goes

(09:02):
along the same line of some of the stuff that
we were talking about last night.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Somebody said one time he.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Said, I don't and I a question is his judgment
while he said it in the first place, But he said, mine,
I want to I want to talk just like you.
And I remember thinking, why why would you want to
do that?

Speaker 3 (09:20):
Why?

Speaker 2 (09:21):
I know where he was coming from, I know what
he was trying to say. But the point is is
that God put each and every one of us in
a particular place here as as men and women has
recovered alcoholics with the unique ability to reach somebody else
in a room, and it's an amazing, amazing thing. Have
you ever been in a situation where you were in
a meeting and you'd shared something and you thought, yeah,

(09:41):
they dug what I said, you know, like this, and
you're thinking, there's some little guy eyeballing you across the
room and he's kind of looking at you, and you think,
as soon as I get done, he's gonna come up
here and he's gonna ask me to sponsor him. I've
been in this situation a dozen times that I can remember,
and I'm sitting there like this, going, yeah, you'd be
here in a minute like this, And just as and
he does, he's heading this direction. I go, see, I
told you like this, and he just kind of pushes

(10:03):
me out of the way and he walks down there
and he starts talking to this little knucklehead behind me,
and I'm going.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
What he said wasn't pissy at all. A matter of fact,
I thought it was sort of lambo. And it's just like,
you see what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
But it's like we, each of us, that's the reason
why each one of us needs to be in that meeting.
They're trying to help somebody. That's the reason why nobody
gets off without the responsibility of helping somebody else. And
that's the reason why I'm often amazed at the at
the little guy that comes in that's the most timid,

(10:37):
that's the most beat up, the quietest woman in the room.
If you can get her off her butt, and if
you can get her head in the right direction, doing
the right work, she can get free and clear of
everything that held her back for generations, and she can
kick some major AA. But and I've seen it until
it's an amazing miracle, and you see it all the time,

(10:59):
and it's all so the part that keeps this thing
so exciting.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
It's the stuff that keeps.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Me coming back day by day by day to see
these kinds of miracles. Top page nineteen. One of my
very favorite. If you ever sponsored anybody, this needs to
be in your arsenal of go to paragraphs, because I
promise you you'll be faced with it all the time.
None of us makes the sole vocation of this work
in order we think it's effectiveness would be increased.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
If we did.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
We feel that elimination of our drinking is but a
beginning period, a much more important demonstration of our principles
lies before us in our respective homes, occupations, and affairs.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Let me answer you guys a question. How many of
you guys have ever.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Left an AA meeting feeling like you were a spiritual giant,
a guru in your own mind?

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Right?

Speaker 2 (11:48):
And then you get home and you step over the
threshold and there's some book bags in the doorway, or
somebody left a bunch of.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Barrel clott of shoes lay in there like this, and.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
If you all of a sudden, you are stirred up
and agitated, and by the time you get to the
back bedroom, you're looking for somebody to kill. Right.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
See, it's not just me, it is you two that it?
Why is it?

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Why is it? Have you ever wondered why is it
that it's harder to be a spiritual grwing around the
people that you love the most, and the easiest to
be a spiritual drying around the people that you barely know.
Sitting in an AA meeting. It's the craziest thing in
the whole wide world. And yet this is what this
thing is saying. When when I'm working with men in
in AA, I'm paying particular attention to their actions. I

(12:33):
pay very little attention to what men tell me these days,
I don't. I hardly listen to them at all. It
just goes in one ear and out the other end.
I watch what they do, what their actions are, and
especially I watch what they do around their families. How
do you treat your employer? How do you treat you?
How do you treat your kids, and your wife, and
your and your your your people that you know again,

(12:53):
it's really easy to stay. It's spiritually a line sitting
in an AA meeting. I'll treat you with with utmost kindness,
and then I'll go home and raise my voice at
my wife. What is that about? And all of these
things these are key indicators, manifestations of a spiritual condition.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
There is not right.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
It speaks of hypocrisy, and it speaks of this kind
of contradictory nature of our recovery.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
It's pretty weird if you start paying attention to it.
There is a reason that you're doing that.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
You're not maladjusted, you're not evil, you're not a mean
old son of a bitch, you're not. But there's a
reason that you're doing it, and you need to find
out what it is. And most of the time It
always goes back to not dealing with the things work
wise program wise.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
That we should be dealing with.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
You're letting up in certain areas, or not doing or
completely ignoring certain areas of the program that you need
to be addressing. We see that stuff all the time.
And the last little piece I want to do before
Chris comes up on this thing. This is more of
a side road than an actual This is just sort
of a little commentary on something that you may may
be interested in, you may not be interested in. At
the bottom of that page there was a paragraph that

(14:00):
that is of interest. It says it's just below the
halfway mark on the page, and it says, we have
concluded to publish an anonymous volume setting forth the problem as.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
We see it.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
We shall bring through the task or combined experience and knowledge.
This should suggest a useful program for anyone concerned with
our drinking problem.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
With a drinking problem, excuse me.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's interesting within the fellowship now it's always we stand
in front of a room and share our experience, strength
and hope. But for a lot of us, it was
interesting for me to learn that experience, strength and hope
was never part of our original text. It wasn't introduced
until the fourth to the third edition in nineteen seventy six,
but it was originally produced. It was originally brought in
by the Grapevine in nineteen forty five by some editorial

(14:46):
staff who wrote it it sounded good, and it became adopted.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
This is the reason I'm mentioning this is. This is
how interesting it is.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
That things can be added to your program and you
never really know where they came from or what to
deal with. Now, listen, there is nothing wrong with sharing experience,
strength and hope. Please, are we all on that same page.
I don't want anybody coming up here saying, you know
what he said about I love sharing experience, strength and hope.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
But I like this better.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
And I'll tell you the reason why the literature asked
us to share our combined experience and knowledge. Our experiences
are all different. Our experiences of what happened when I
had my journey into recovery is different than yours. And
those experiences are entertaining and they're often very helpful to

(15:32):
a brand new guy that is coming in. But what's
really important is the knowledge of how I recovered. That's
what they were talking about. The literature told.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Me if I did this, I would get this. They
were real clear about.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
It and so, but that knowledge has seemed in some
places has been left behind.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
It's been sort of kind of watered out. You ever
hear a guy.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Stand up in front of a group like at a
birthday night, Well, I've been sober for ten years. I
don't have a I mean how I got here. Listen,
and I know where he's coming from. I understand humility.
I understand that's his attempt at humility. I do understand that,
and yet it drives me crazy to hear it. It's
one of those things that I just go Listen. I've
been sober twenty one years, guys, and I know exactly

(16:15):
how I got here. I know exactly what keeps me here.
I know exactly why I will stay here. I know
these things because the literature is clear on this stuff.
The knowledge of how this program works is that important,
and that's what I hope that everybody would get back
into strength and hope is great stuff. But my mama
could share strength and hope with me. Did you understand

(16:39):
that my mama could share strength and hope with me?
But it didn't keep me sober? What I needed was
a man in AA who had the knowledge of how
he recovered to carry that same knowledge to me to
show me how to recover. And that is an amazing,
amazing thing. I'm not knocking any of that stuff. Everybody
always wants to misunderstand this, and so we'll come up

(17:00):
and say, I don't think you should say those unkind
things about experience drinking. Hope, I'm not. I'm just telling
you I like the book's original version better. That's a
personal opinion. I like the fact that they would address
experience and knowledge as being important to our recovery. And
I want to read this one little paragraphs and then

(17:21):
give it to Chris you on the next page twenty one.
That page twenty at the top of that page Bill,
This is one of the very first times he addresses it.
On page fourteen in Bill's story, and then again on
page twenty it says, our very life his X problem.
Drinkers depend upon our constant thought of others and how
we may help meet their needs. Huh. It always amazes

(17:41):
me how how clearly is on the deal, and it
says you may have already asked yourself why it is?
Why is it that all of us become so very
ill from drinking. Now he's going to introduce us for
the first time since the doctor's opinion. He's going to
introduce us to this idea of this illness, and we're
gonna get They're going to beat it up over the
next twenty five.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Pages, but right now they're in ad again.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Doubtless you are curious to discover how and why, in
the face of expert opinion of the contrary, we have recovered.
There's that ugly word that everybody doesn't want to talk
about from a hopeless condition of mind and body. If
you're an alcoholic who wants to get over it, you
may already be asking what do I have to do?

Speaker 3 (18:17):
There's classic classic poetic Bill Wilson.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
He paints a rhetorical picture and then he gives you
the information that answers what it was he just asked.
It's just and he'll li'll do it again fifty times
before the page one point sixty four, that same literary
license that he takes in this stuff. He'll paint you
a word picture of a situation. He'll paint the drug
that is worse, and then he'll paint some solution. Then

(18:41):
he'll paint it again, and he'll repeat it over and
over again, until by the time we're done with it,
we kind of go, oh, now I get it, now,
I get it. Good stuff, man, Thanks Chris, just saving ye. Well,

(19:06):
my name is Chris Raymer, very grateful, recovered alcoholic, and
I'm delighted to be here. I apologize for not wearing
a coat, but I have one. I'm speaking tonight, and
I'm not gonna mess it up. We're doing this. Uh

(19:28):
my wardrobe was a little shallow on this trip. Who
knew it was gonna be freezing up here? I mean,
this is gorgeous up here. I gotta tell you, I
am honored to be here. Thanks so much. And and
the chance to spend a little time talking in this uh,
in this chapter is pretty cool. And and it's like
I'm gonna say, tonight, I'm gonna give you a little
bit of my story. Y'all don't kind of know where

(19:49):
I come from. I'm not as as uh well as
messed up as myers, and so I mean, we all
get here different ways, and and it's just a it's
a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
I want I readers.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Digest Condensed knew intuitively that I had a problem with
the drinking, and I had some bunch of outside issues
that were complicating the things a lot. And I was
in therapy for a bunch of years, eating lots of medications,
and I was in uh in and out of treatment,
and I started Alcoholics Anonymous in in nineteen eighty went
to my first meeting and and the old geezer says, Chris,

(20:25):
you you have a problem with alcohol. And I said, yes,
I'm just drunk then, you know, And absolutely I got
a quarter of beard in my pickup truck or even
as we speak. And uh he said, well, you're in
the right room. Welcome. And that was it. That's the
extent of the qualifying that was done to Chris Ramer
for seven years. And and then we went around and.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
Told all the war stories that.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Gave me pause. I said, I was one of you,
and that I was in the right room. But I
have never robbed a liquor store, and I have never
had a DWI and I don't beat my wife and
and and you're trying to scare me into the recovery
by sharing your experience, strength and hope. And you've got

(21:09):
me confused because I'm not like you. And I can
tell you, folks, I work in a treatment center and
have for about sixteen years. I do clerical work for
a hospital and I get a chance to talk to
lots and lots and lots of people that come in
trying to get well, and they are all in that
same spot. They've all tried AA, and they get in
that room, they find out that this is about Alcoholics

(21:31):
Anonymous in this treatment center and they're so disappointed. I
can't believe I've spent this much money go back to AA.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
And I'm sitting there very quietly.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
I can't believe you did either, but.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
But I'm real glad you did.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
But you'd be amazed at how many people we talked
to that all of a sudden start looking like deer
in a headlight, Like, what are you talking about? Where
are you getting that information? Out of the Big Book
of Alcoholics Anonymous? It was published in nineteen thirty nine.
This is the Big Book message we're supposed to carry.
But you see, everybody, you know, a big website started

(22:06):
up here in Canada that takes the shots at some
of us little thumber guys. You know, we were talking
about it last night. Oh it's a cult. If you're
any of you guys I saw I saw you making
a note in your book. Do you realize that now
you're a part of the cult because you did that.
It's like, oh my gosh, I've been a part of
this cult for years now. In twenty one years, I've
been sober, and it's like it freaks me out the
shots that we take because we're coming out of the

(22:27):
book and you want to, I mean, you want to
feel some resistance in a room, introduce yourself as a
person who has recovered, like the book tells you to
do you wear this. Oh my counselor and treatment said,
We'll always be recovering. Your counselor and treatment probably wasn't
even a real alcoholic. But it's gonna share this little

(22:49):
piece of information with you, and then it's gonna water
the message down and even further. You follow, Why do
we have so many young people that don't want to
get sober in our fellowship? Why do you want to
be a part of a fellowship where every day you
have to get up and admit you're sick. See I
haven't obsessed about I alcohol in twenty one years. That's
a pretty good cool thing. I can share some hope
with my little brother James. Stay on the path so
that you can stay with us. You with us. But

(23:12):
it's going to offend somebody. Could I get sick again tomorrow?
You bet if I stop doing the work. If I
stop doing the book tells me that. But guys, the
miracle of this is that you can get taken to
a place pretty quick where the obsession to use goes
away and we have some power left over to deal
with all that external stuff. And what Bill Wilson's trying
to do in these first couple of chapters, especially in

(23:35):
this one we're talking about here, he's trying to differentiate
the difference between a hard drinker and a real alcoholic.
And again people get, I use the term because Bill
Wilson uses, But what about the real alcoholic. It's a
quote out of the book, and you use this in
a meeting. And so I don't care what you say.
I say I'm an alcoholic. If I say I'm an alcoholic,

(23:57):
no comma or not. You can call yourself a duck
if you want to, but it doesn't mean you're a
duck if you say you're a member of Alcoholics Anonymous.
The traditions say you can be a member, but I'm
FuMB you'll down with that. Come on with us. We're
good with that anybody as far as that can. But
we have a responsibility to qualify you. And it's one

(24:19):
of the main things in alcoholics anonymous that we don't
do anymore worth of poot. We're so busy worrying about
membership and literature sales, you know, come come, come, well,
I'm not sure having alcoholic come anyway, It's okay.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
You'll find out if you are.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Instead of stop at the door, let's sit down and
get a cup of coffee and find out once and
for all, are you really one of us or not? Alcoholism, guys,
is a fatal progressive illness. It is nasty as can be.
You're either going to end up in an institution or
dead if you're one of us. And yet everybody says that,

(24:58):
but nobody really believes it. How do we know that?
Listen to the people, water the message down, take your
time to work the steps. Easy does it? All you
need to do is go to meetings for a year,
more meetings, more meetings. That's what you need to do.
Excuse me, if you truly understood the fatality of the
fatal nature of this disease.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
Would you be.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Telling somebody just to keep coming back to a bunch
of meetings. I don't think so. You'd be sitting down
and qualifying, I mean, getting them through the work so
they could get well.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
All the cats in early AA did the steps quick, folks.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Anybody that's taking their time to do the steps have
been misinformed. See here's the deal. If you if you
want to just there's two reasons that you're not going
to get this. One, if you don't believe you're one
of us, then you won't do the work. The other
reason is if nobody tells you what to do in
order to get well. Makes sense. So I have a

(25:52):
responsibility as a recovered alcoholic when I go to a
meetings or guys I'm sponsoring or working with or to
make sure that you understand what the solution is and
then you can either do it or not do it.
Makes sense. Turn the bottom page twenty one full on
page twenty Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving it
up entirely. If they have good reason for it, they
can take it or leave it alone. You know, with us,

(26:14):
I don't think we got a moderate anybody in here.
Maybe then we have a certain type of hard drinker.
Bill Wilson's trying to separate this up a little bit.
Certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit
badly enough to gradually impair himself physically and mentally. It
may cause him to die a few years before his time.
But here's the kicker. But if a sufficient strong reason

(26:34):
comes along, ill health, falling in love, changing an environment,
or warning from a doctor. If any of this becomes operative,
this man or woman can stop or moderate, although he
may find it difficult, troublesome, and may even need medical attention.
With us, world is full of hard drinkers. Given sufficient reason,
they can quit. Our judicial system in the United States
is built on this. If I can punish you enough,

(26:56):
hard enough, long enough, one day you'll wake up and say, damn,
I don't want to do that anymore, and you will
have the power to not do it. But the real
alcoholic we were jails are full of us, it says
the next paragraph. But what about the real alcoholic, the
real McCoy. He may start off as a model drinker,

(27:16):
may or may not become a continuous hard drinker, but
at some stage, some stage of his career, he begins
to lose all control of his drinking. Once he starts,
you'll follow. I want to show you something real quick.
You probably can't see it from the very back, but
you guys in the good expensive seats up here in
front can see them. The thing is divided into three

(27:36):
little spots. And alcoholism is that alcoholism, I will go
ahead and say this now. And drug addiction also it's
the same. It's in the same deal. Alcoholism is genetic
in nature. The jury's in folks. I mean I work
for a hospital. When we study this stuff, I mean
we're cutting edge stuff. It's genetic in nature. Alcoholism is
not causal. It's nothing out there that causes you to

(27:58):
be an alcoholic. It could exacerbate it, Oh my gosh.
Some of you guys have been traumatized, and that sure
made it worse, and it sure sure made it tougher
for you, but it didn't cause it. That'll cause you
to be a hard drinker. You can do some good
therapy on that and then get out the other side
and be okay. But the real alcoholic, the cat that's
genetically predisposed small percentage in the United States, but the

(28:21):
studies are in I mean, this is pretty much conclusive stuff.
Genetics plays a huge part of this. Your ethnic background
plays a huge part in it. If you happen to
be You look at the Asian population, there's like very
few Asian alcoholics.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
You'll see some, but statistically very few.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
You look at North American Indians, if you have any
Indian blood in you welcome the alcoholics anonymous. And it
has nothing to do with anything other than the genetic
predisposition makes sense. I got my father's bad back and
his stone good looks and and is and is alcoholism

(29:07):
and uh and that myers caught the bullet. I've got
a little sister that's a year and three months younger
than us, and she didn't catch that.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
And I got a half sister and she didn't cat
Have you ever noticed that?

Speaker 2 (29:15):
How come some of your siblings did and some of
your siblings guys, it's just it's the luck of the
draw Eggy Spury done. And yet you still want to
go into meetings and talk about why you're an alcoholic.
And this is what the book is trying to say.
In the same pages, some of these excuses have a
certain plausibility. Oh my gosh, guys.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
Don't get me wrong.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Some of us, this our disease has has progressed, has
sped up because of the circumstances and the damage that
has been done. But here's what ties us together. You
look around this room. We've got some drop dead gorgeous
people in this room. We got a couple of cats.
I can't even look straight at You're so ugly that
water down there. Brother. It's nothing personal, you know, It's

(29:57):
just like we cross section. I know, we've got some
very intelligent people in here.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
Maybe some really yeah cross section of humanity in here, guys.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
But the thing that ties us together, this is what
Myers was alluding to last night. We have a tendency
to want to compartmentalize everybody. We got the gay people
over here, we got the kids over here, we got
the Vietnam vats over here, we got the people that
were molested over here. But we need to understand that
the disease doesn't give a rats butt about all that
other stuff. The thing that ties us together, the common

(30:30):
problem that the book talks about, is the same in
every single solitary one of us either got these symptoms,
or you don't walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,
it's a duck. And if you don't, it doesn't. The
first part of this thing, the doctor's opinion, It talks
about this physical phenomena called craving. Doctor Silkwer spent sixteen

(30:51):
years as a neurologist in Town's hospital. He started seeing
the similarities. He'd see a black alcoholic come in and
this white socialite from the West side come in, and
the symptoms were identical with these people. Their lives were
completely different, but the symptoms were identical. Once they started
to drink at certain times, this craving would kick in

(31:14):
and they would drink more than they intended. The physical
piece of this is is that they looked they lost control,
excuse me, once they started to drink. That's what we
have to look at. Did the craving ever kick in?
The problem is not that Chris Raymer drinks. The problem
is that Chris ra Raymord drinks too damn much. And
the inopportune times, I've got an appointment to to to

(31:39):
I'm looking for a job, I've got an interview at
two o'clock at lunch, I have a beer with a
barbecue sandwich, and by two o'clock I've had six beers,
just enough to make me sloppy in that interview makes sense?

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Why did I do that? I knew better than to show.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Up at an interview drunk, But here I was, you
follow I didn't choose to do that. This craving kicks in.
That's the genetic that's the piece that doctor Silkworth could
start to see in us. Our bodies metabolize this stuff
different than normal people. My little sister can sit down
and have a couple of drinks. Lisa, you want another drink? No,

(32:15):
thank you, Comma, I'm starting to feel it and I
lean down like I'm talking to a retarded child. Yes,
me too, You want another drink or not? I'm buying.
Let's go. This craving is not hit kicked in her.

(32:36):
She's done enough, Okay, and that's all right. Everybody I've
ever talked to understands this physical piece. Everybody. The worst
counselor I ever had understood you. Alcoholics. Once you start
to drink, you lose all kinds of control. You With
us twelve steps, we'd maybe we were powerless over alcohol.
You alcoholics, once you start to drink are certainly powerless

(32:59):
over alcohol. You with me, these observations would be academic
and pointless. Of our friend top of page twenty three
never took the first drink, thereby setting the terrible cycle
in motion. Therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic centers

(33:22):
in his mind rather than his body. If you ask
him why he started on the last bender, the chances
always gonna offer you any one of a hundred alibis.
Sometimes these excuses have a certain plausibility, but none of
them really makes sense. And the light the havoc of
the alcoholic drinking bouts creates. You'll follow what's saying is okay,
so we got this physical allergy, that's a given. We're
gonna look at that. But you know what treats the

(33:43):
physical allergy. It's called detox. All you gotta do to
treat the physical piece is not drink. Hm That Even
that crappy little book called Living Sober got that straight. Oh,
I know some of y'all liked that book. Listen, if
you've got it, just go home, take it off the bookshelf,

(34:06):
go out in the backyard. Burn it, don't read it.
Burn it. I'm not gonna take time to talk about
it now, because this is ludicrous, This is idea. These
counselors are telling me the same thing. I mean, this
took me to the brink of a suicide attempt in

(34:28):
nineteen eighty seven. You know, if you really don't want
to drink, then just don't drink, like one minute at
a time. I just don't drink. I understand it. But
what the book is trying to tell me? Now turn
the page. This is what we call the main page,
page twenty four. You'd be surprised how many people in
Alcoholics Anonymous have never read this page, page twenty four.

(34:51):
It Tyleses writing just like Myers, is saying kind of
important that first real paragraph. The fact is that most alcoholics,
for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice.
In drink, our so called willpower becomes practically non existent.
We were unable at certain times to bring into our
consciousness with sufficient force the memory and suffering and humiliation
of even a week or a month ago. We were

(35:13):
without defense against the first drink. The almost certain consequences
that follow taking even a glass of beer do not
crowding our mind to a terrists if these thoughts occur
they're hazy and rarely supplanted with the old threadbear idea
that this time we're going to handle ourselves like other people.
There is a complete failure of the kind of defense
that keeps one from putting his hand in a hot stove.
You with this is what it's saying here now, guys,

(35:35):
up to page twenty three. We're talking about what happens
to us when we put this stuff in our system.
Now we're talking about what happens when it's out of
our system. If alcohol was the problem, then treatment sinners
would crank out one hundred percent success rates.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
We certainly don't because the alcohol is not the problem.
Alcoholism is the problem.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
It's my mind that tells me two weeks out that
you can put it back in your system.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
It's what kills alcoholics. And it's amazing to me how
many people.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Out there in the world, especially speaking from podiums, especially
working in the industry, that don't understand that there's an
old geezer thirty years sober in Houston, Texas, and he's
still when he shares in meetings, he says it every time,
and I just lay my head down every time he does.
Thirty years sober says, I got up this morning and
chose not to drink. Some of y'all are in the scream.

(36:30):
I guarantee you are saying it.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
If you can do that, then you're not an alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
If you can choose to not do it and make
it stick, then what you have is a behavioral problem,
and you manage to get past it.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Some of your grinding your teeth. I don't care. I'm
telling you exactly what this is about.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
The tension that you feel in the room is about,
is about this idea that this really is a death sentence.
I wish that Oprah understood that. I wish doctor Phil
understood that. I wish your Glen Beck would understand. It's
the matter with these celebrities. Why don't they just choose
not to drink? I do.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
No shit, Get out of here.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
When I was eating out of umpsters in nineteen seventy
six in Houston, Texas, all I had.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
To do is choose not to drink. Who knew? My
friend DJ says it best.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
It says, at what point does I change my mind
qualify for insanity?

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Makes sense?

Speaker 2 (37:23):
You continue to change your mind, you promise someone that
you love that you're not gonna do it, and you
mean it, and you think you've got the power to
not do it. This is what the book is trying
to say in this chapter. There's a small percentage of
us that can't not do it. I can stop for
short periods of time, and then my head tells me
that they talk about the insanity. The mental piece says,

(37:45):
you can drink, but not like you did last time.
This time you're just gonna have one follow the experiment
or this. This is what we're seeing all over the
country now in the United States. This time. What we're
saying is I'm not gonna drink that anymore. I know
I can't drink, but I can still eat pills because
their doctor prescribed. And then the craving kicks in and

(38:06):
we're off to the stupid races again. Makes sense. Yeah,
third piece of that deal that nobody ever wants to
talk about, the spiritual malady, and Bill Wilson continues to
allude to it in here. This internal discomfort, it's what
causes alcoholics and addicts to self distruct Alcohol is not
the problem.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
It's the solution you down with that.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
I've never heard a speaker yet get up from the
podium and didn't talk about how great alcohol made them feel.
And that's exactly what we all understand, and that's what
the counselors and therapists, the people that aren't one of
us don't understand. Listen, I understand that it may cause
me some problems, but I also understand that I'm fixing
to implode because I'm irritable, restless, and discontent and I'm

(38:48):
full of fear, and the depression's kicking my butt. You
with me, and this low self esteem and the bedevilments
sort of page fifty two are coming up and grabbing
me in the butt, and I just don't like.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Who I am.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
And all I had got to do is take one
drink drinks, which I see you taking with impunity, and
now here I go again, and now the craving kicks
in and I'm off to the stupid races. It's a
death sentence, folks. Everybody, family members, when they come to
the hospital, they're all waiting when she's gonna hit her bottom.
You'll follow them, Listen, And this is what y'all need

(39:19):
to hear, what we're trying to do. If you read
this letter, this information in this chapter, you're gonna start
feeding some tension in your gut. That's the bottom you're
gonna hit. What we need to do, Cliff Myer's sponsor
talks about it. We need to give you cats a
case of alcoholism. You're a little new protege that thinks
he might be one of us. We got to give
them a case of alcoholism because they think they got

(39:41):
a case of drinking too damn much. They got a
problem with a drink is You got to show them
that they don't have.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
They're waiting for their external world.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
You see the little guy over here, I got the
little excess as a little issue man.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
I got the little buttons.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Sometimes I bring him around to little issue man. And
everybody believes that the outside, if the outside would get better,
i'd do. Okay, how many of y'all have done that?
Try to change your outside if we can, just if
we can, just get out of Texas. That was my
big experiment. I'm gonna Texas. Everybody in Texas is alcoholic.
I'm gonna move someplace where nobody drinks. I moved to Atlanta, Georgia.

(40:15):
Oh my gosh, it was a horrible mistake. They actually
they don't sell Booze on Sundays. I didn't stay in
the Atlanta, Georgia very long. I can assure you that
I'm about losers. But I kept thinking, if.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
I could just change, if I could just get the
right job and.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
The right woman and the right all this other external stuff,
that I'd be okay inside. And my family believes that too.
You're with us, and that's the frustrating part. Well, God dang, Chris.
You said you wanted the restaurant, Now you got it.
You said you wanted the new house, and now you
got it. You're with us. But I'm sitting on the
back thinking, God dang, I didn't really want this, you know,
I mean, this is not the working out the way
I want because the problem is not external. The problem

(40:54):
is internal. And that's why my grinder is in meetings.
When we spend all of our time trying to fix
all of this external and we stop worrying about what's
going on inside, makes sense.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
It's it's it's the internal stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
I'll never forget. The first time I was at that
hospital and the lottery had just started a few years
before in Texas, and we had our first lottery winner
in treatment. We've had an endless supply of them since
whether as they win the lottery, thinking that's going to
fix it. But if they're alcoholic, it.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
Just speeds up the process.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
You know, they stop drinking that damn Chef Bartlett's and
James Wine coolers, and now they're drinking Remy Martin, you know,
and there. But but they're in treatment now, you know,
and they're thinking, and I'm thinking, God, dang, I drank
so many years around money. You know, if I just
had money, I just had all the bills paid, I
wouldn't have to drink so much, believing that that would
fix the problem. Then you get the money and you
realize that that's not the problem. You know, it's the

(41:48):
internal stuff that's got to be treated. And that's why
Bill Wilson, if we can get the guides to understand uh,
the diagnoses of alcoholism true alcoholism, then you don't have
a choice. Then it's just like, Okay, well, what's the solution.
Go on to the bitter end or have the spiritual
experience seek the power unabashedly, the book says on the

(42:11):
bottom page twenty five, it says, quite clearly, if you
were seriously alcoholic as we were.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
We believe there's no middle of the road solution. What's
middle of the road solution? Anything that not in this book?

Speaker 2 (42:26):
It makes sense. I'm not not you would.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
Add any of that other stuff to your program you
want to, but don't leave this out.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Why is it that the last thing that we ever
considered doing is working these twelve steps. You got a
guy in Toronto my first trip to Toronto. Look, we
ded straight in the face and says, we believe that
everybody needs to come to meetings for a year, and
at the end of a year, then possibly perhaps if
you want to, you can find somebody to take you
through the steps. Well, but you see so many people

(42:55):
stay sober that way that are not even alcoholics. They
don't have a problem. If you can go to an
even you just sit on your ass for a year
and not drink, why the hell you need us. You'll
see the tension. I'm so it's like, I'm not trying
to get preachy here, but oh my gosh, the real
alcoholic that needs this solution is not gonna hear it

(43:16):
because it's so muddy down with middle of the road solution.
What happens when you're in the middle of the road, guys,
you get run over, get on one side or get
on the other. Come in, go out, but but do something.
That's what the book is trying to tell us. I'll
show you one more thing.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
What we got. So we got so absolutely afraid.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
I know in the United States, I can't speak for
hair wasn't here, but in the United States when the
Traadement Center started crank cranking them out in the eighties,
we got so absolutely afraid of offending anybody. It was
like we were almost apologetic about talking about the spiritual
experience and about God. You make sense, you got the
steps on the wall, but we're not going to talk
about it. We're going to talk about everything else under
the sun. And I can see some of you getting

(44:11):
uncomfortable with it now. I'm just saying, why can't we
do both? Why can't we do both? Is all I'm saying.
Why can't we talk about the steps and make sure
the newcomer understands the solution and talk about all the
other happy horse hockey that we have to talk about.
I mean, truly, I'm fascinated hearing about your grandkids one
more time, can't I can't hardly wait. Top of Phase

(44:37):
twenty eight, We, in our turn sought the same escape
with all the desperation of drowning men. Wow, what a sentence. Huh,
We in our turn sought the same escape with the
desperation of drowning men.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
It means Bill Wilson's given us.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
A suggestion called the twelve Steps, and here it is
tenonis that each in our turn we get to make
a decision. You want to work the twelve steps and
have a spiritual experience or not? Well, I don't believe
in God. Do you want to work the steps? Because
I guarantee you will believe in God if you work
the steps, if you can get past your arrogance.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
And so each in our turn give this a shot.
Makes sense. Everybody's going to put their own little spin
on it, but.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Let's do it.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
It's just that simple. Seek the solution with the desperation
of a drowning man.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Now, how, my friends, does this equate with take your time?

Speaker 3 (45:36):
I gotta say, I got.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
The little one liners on the wall over here that
says easy, does it? I got to tell you everybody
wants to take that out of context. Do you know
where that shows up in the book over in the
chapter to the families. Where it talks about our families,
it says, with our families.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Easy does it is the best idea.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
No kidding, you know what I'm saying. Go gentle with
your families. You've scalded the daylights out of them. Now,
don't go in there and start preaching to them. Easy
does it? Well, we want to take it out of
content text and talk about the steps. Every time I'd
come up and say listen, well, I'm thinking about maybe
starting that old four step, some old geezer to look
back down that didn't want to mess with me anyway
and say, hey, buddy, easy does it. You've only been
here six months. Take your time. You didn't get this

(46:12):
sick overnight. You're not gonna get well overnight. Absolute arrogance
of you say something stupid like that. I'm the real McCoy.
I can't sit for six months in my own juices.
Listen to you talk about your day. I need some relief,

(46:32):
I need some power. That's what we're gonna talk about tonight,
guys in my story. That's exactly what this is about.
Find somebody to help you do this work. Last page
in there, it says further on clear cut directions are
given showing how we recovered. Maybe I misread that. I

(46:52):
mean to look at those Maybe I missed these glasses. God.
Further on, clear cut directions are given showing how we recovered. Hm, man,

(47:13):
I mean alcoholic asnyms for seven years and nobody has
showed me that. Let me say this real quick. We'll
let you guys run in the front of the books.
Anybody got a Canadian book? Anything published here? No circle

(47:35):
triangle in the front somebody, I don't. I don't remember
if y'alls got y'alls pulled out or not. But we
had a circle triangle in the front of the book
on the title page where it says you can recover.
That's the one right there, baby, let me bout Yeah,
this is a third edition. I wonder jeez. Thanks. I
appreciate that that for me. I appreciate that this is

(47:56):
on the title page it says that the story of
many thousands of people have recovered from alcoholism, and there's
a circle and triangle there that talks about it and
says right there it says unity, service and recovery. And
there's little three parts there the same thing body mind, spirit, Unity,
service and recovery. And if you're in all three parts
of that program, working a program, carrying a message, you know,
with us in the service piece, and then the unity

(48:18):
you're going to meetings and you're a part of this,
you're gonna stay sober. And that's what we're seeing time
and time and time again with these cats. It's not
how bad you are, whether you're gonna get sober or not,
it's who does the work. And I guarantee you that
it was so clearly painted to me when I started
working at this hospital. I thought, the cat that could
pay the kind of money that our hospital's expensive place.

(48:39):
And you come to this hospital, I figure, for this
kind of money, surely you're gonna stay sober. You follow,
I mean the free stuff. I understand it didn't cost
you anything. What the hell, you can try it again later,
but here you go. And then and then I thought
the guy that the doctor that came in that was
gonna have his license revoked if he didn't get sober.
I thought, well, surely, I mean, this guy's got his
livelihood and he's gonna have to start I an obeat

(49:00):
Upnissigan like me instead of a Mercedes. For heaven's akes,
he's going to stay sober. It couldn't stay sober because they.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
Simply refused to do the work. You follow.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Our fellowships, I'll tell you this, are are riddled with
people that are hard drinkers who don't have to do
the work. And they are welcome and they are loved
in our fellowship, and we appreciate them being here. But
if you're a newcomer and you want to get sober,
don't compare yourself to the person sitting next to you,
thinking that you're exactly the same without asking some specific questions.

(49:32):
And I realized that's really controversial to ask. But you know,
if somebody I needed a spiritual experience, and when I
had one, it blew me out of the water. And
that's what we're going to talk about tonight. This chapter's
crystal clear, and it wants to paint a picture. Three
places in the book, Bill Wilson tries to explain the
different types of drinkers. He wants us all to understand.
And this is for the real McCoy folks. Let's don't

(49:54):
want of the message down so that it makes you
feel better. It might kill the real McCoy that can't
get well any other way. The steps are not an option.
The spiritual experience is not an option. If you're the
real McCoy makes sense, I'm sure. I'm glad to be here.
Thank you so much for letting us time.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
I had little recovery websites listed we've collected over the years.
Some of these are really clandestine websites. They actually talk
about God and the Steps and they're pretty good stuff.
We've compiled them and Mark copied some of these for
you guys. They'll be up here on the counter if
you want to snag them if you're in here where

(50:41):
the group. I don't know how many he copied, but
you can snag them, and y'all make copies and check
them out. And it's great information in these websites. Thanks guys.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Going to help close this meeting by making the circle
joining his and reciting the Lord's prayers.

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Chris R. and Myers R. - AA Speakers - Our Common Solution

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Chris R. and Myers R. - AA Speakers - Our Common Solution