SCOTUS Unleashes LA Raids — Plus, Jamie Mustard’s harrowing escape from Scientology 9/8/25 - The Mark Thompson Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, thank you everyone.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
What a delight.

Speaker 1 (00:03):
To be greeted first of the week by recorded applause.
I'll tell you it warms my heart great to have
everyone in the mix. Major Scotus ruling just handed down.
Within the hour we're going to discuss it. Also some
serious questions politically when it comes to gerrymandering, redistricting and

(00:26):
the loss of a major political figure that'll be discussed
at the bottom of the hour with Gary Diacher. Everyone.
That's right. One of the moments I'm most looking forward
to in today's show is associated with our guest who
joins an hour two. This is a brilliant graduate of
London School of Economics, author, futurist, but his origin story

(00:52):
is harrowing. He was raised in the Church of Scientology,
but in a way that you haven't heard before. And
you know I've read Going Clear, the Scientology book and
the revelations associated with it. I've read and seen a
lot of interviews. The details of Jamie Mustard's life unlike

(01:15):
anything I've seen or read. So I encourage you in
hour two to join us for that. I oddly, even
though I speak to you now in ninety seconds or so,
can I just at least review the one. Okay, I
have one story to review with you. It's the story
of the moment I think, I mean, I think there'd

(01:37):
be no disagreement about it. That's the scot's decision. But
then I must leave. I've got doctor's appointments stacked up
like flights over lax or SFO, and so really need
to hit them all on time as a result, and
I have direct conflicts schedule wise. So Kim will be here,

(01:58):
and Kim will I'll squire you through everything that need
be attended to, and Tony will be here as well.
And so there is that, by the way, just on
the less serious but also serious CBS, I guess or
the US Open coverage was intimidated into not showing the

(02:21):
booze that accompanied Donald Trump's image on the big screen
and even choreographing Trump's arrival at the US Open. This
is just yesterday, such that he could arrive before the
crowd and that way he wouldn't have to enter to
the booze. This is how clearly aware of unpopular Donald Trump.

(02:44):
Donald Trump is or his people are. This is not
a popular president. This is unpopular DT. So Kim, I
think we'll touch on that along with some other things
along the way. So I do want to make way
for her, but I also just wanted to mention Mark
Thompson's show, and she'll follow up on the fact that

(03:05):
the Supreme Court has just ruled that roving patrols for
immigration arrests are legal. This is a huge victory for
the President and his henchmen who have a very aggressive,
might I say, brutal approach to executing their immigration plan,

(03:29):
this largest mass deportation operation in American history. Those are
their words. LA and twenty other Southern California municipalities arguing
that half the population of the Central District now meet
the government's criteria for reasonable suspicion, meaning they can detain
people who are speaking Spanish, or have brown skin, or

(03:55):
are working at a car wash, or are day laborers
at Low's or home Deep Oh, that is all legal
under this scota's decision. It was a six to three vote.
The justices granted an emergency appeal. They lifted an LA
judge's order that barred these roving patrols from snatching people

(04:16):
off the Southern California streets based on how they look
or what language they're speaking. Or where they work, or
where they happen to be at that moment. An order
from a Los Angeles judge had barred that, but now
Scotis has said that's legal justice Kavanaugh saying that federal

(04:41):
law says that immigration officers may briefly detain an individual
quote for questioning, if they have quote a reasonable suspicion
based on specific articulable facts, that the person being questioned
is an alien illegally in the United States. Migration stops
based on this is from the decision on reasonable suspicion

(05:03):
of illegal presence have been an important component of US
immigration enforcement for decades across several presidential administrations. Of course,
the three liberal judges dissented from this, so Domor called
it yet another grave misuse of our emergency docket. We
should not have to live in a country where the
government can seize anyone who looks Latino, speaks Spanish, and

(05:25):
appears to work a low wage job a job. Rather
than stand oddly by why our constitutional freedoms are lost,
I dissent in this decision, so Sono Mayor wrote, the
government has all but declared that all Latino's US citizens
are not who work low wage jobs are fair game

(05:47):
to be seized at any time, taken away from work,
held until they provide proof of their legal status to
the agent's satisfaction. It's just wrong on so many levels.
These aren't brief detentions on the part of immigration agents.
These are brutal takedowns. These are glorified nightclub bouncers with

(06:13):
their night vision and their sunglasses and their masks and
no ID. This is huge, It's awful, and it unleashes.
I think what's even worse if I can suggest that,

(06:33):
and that is that these roving patrols begin to expand
even the probable cause associated with detention of other kinds
as well. I mean, I think that's in the offing.
So sorry to be so heavy to start things, but man,

(06:54):
this is a big decision. I wanted to at least
weigh in on it. Kim has more, Gary Dietchrich, I'm
sure we'll comment. It has massive economic implications for California
and for the US, and it more importantly from a
humanitarian standpoint. It's awful, just awful. So uh, Kim will

(07:22):
pick up from here along with the Tony and as
I say, a terrific conversation. An hour two with our
special guest Jamie Mustard, author and futurist. That's the harrowing
story of a life in scientology and then finally breaking free.
And of course Gary Dietricht. Bottom of this hour, who
will talk about politics and more? Mark Thompson Show.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Thomson, Oh boy, this is the Mark Thompson Show. I'm
kim McAllister. I've got Tony along for the ride, and
we have something big to talk about today. As Mark
just alluded to, boy, it feels like we're living in
a different country, in a different time. Show me your papers, Tony.
That's all they need to the one look at you,

(08:10):
one look at me, one look at anybody. They don't
need proof ice. They can just come on in and say,
you know, you don't look quite right, or you don't
I wonder if you're American. Let's let's see. Let's see
show me your papers. So I guess we all have
to travel around now with our passports or birth certificates

(08:32):
or something that. You know, the minute they point the
finger at you, you can show that you're legally supposed
to be here. I I mean, I don't I don't know.
It doesn't feel American. To me, this does not feel
American at all. But here's what happened. As Mark mentions,
the Supreme Court has upheld roving patrols for immigration arrests

(08:57):
in Los Angeles. The City of Los Angeles and twenty
other Southern California cities argued that half the population of
the Central District now meets the government's criteria for reasonable suspicion.
And we know already that US citizens have been snapped
up in these immigration raids. Right We've heard people being

(09:22):
held for days before they're allowed to present the proof
that they're legal citizens or that they're legally allowed to
be in America, So they're staying in lock up for days.
This is a scary situation. Today the Supreme Court rules
in favor of the Trump administration. They use the emergency

(09:44):
session and they agreed the Supreme Court that US immigration
agents may stop and detain anyone that they suspect of
being in the United States illegally, and they can do
it based on whether you work a car wash or
home depot. They can or are standing in the home depot,
parking lot, whatever, right, are you in the back of

(10:07):
a restaurant, are you are you in a sewing factory,
like whatever, wherever you are, are you a dishwasher? Okay,
well you're at risk. Are you speaking Spanish or another
language they don't understand? Boom, it can stop you. What
color is your skin? Boom, they can stop you. My

(10:29):
sympathies at this moment lie with the people that are
of Hispanic descent, the people that are speaking Spanish, because
you know, they're the first to be targeted here. I'm
sure that there are people of Asian descent that are
also being targeted, But I'm looking out into the future
and I'm thinking who's next, because it's not going to

(10:53):
stop with the Spanish speaking people. Do you think.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
I mean?

Speaker 3 (10:58):
I guess they could look at me and go, you know,
she looks a little too German and Scottish, She's out.
I don't know. I just feel like, what's the quote
first they came for me? That whole thing. I think
it puts all of us at risk and it should
not be tolerated. And it wasn't a close vote. Supreme

(11:21):
Court goes six to three for this emergency appeal, lifting
the order of a Los Angeles judge that had barred
these types of roving patrols. From plucking people off of
the streets of southern California just based on appearance or
what language they were speaking, or where they work or
where they happened to be standing at the time. Justice

(11:46):
Kavanaugh had this to say, Immigration officers may briefly detain
an individual for questioning if they have reasonable suspicion based
on specific articulable facts, that the person being questioned is
an alien illegally in the United States. He said, immigration
stops based on reasonable suspicion of illegal presence have been

(12:09):
an important component of US immigration enforcement for decades across
several presidential administrations. One of the dissenting opinions comes from
Justice Sonya Sotomayor, who says it is yet another grave
misuse of our emergency docket. We should not have a
country where the government can seize anyone who looks Latino,

(12:32):
speaks Spanish, appears to work a low wage job, rather
than stand idly by while our constitutional freedoms are lost,
I dissent, she wrote. She also said the government has
all but declared that all Latino citizens are all Latinos.
US citizens are not who work low wage jobs or
fair game to be seized at any time, taken away

(12:55):
from work and held until they provide proof of their
legal status to the agent's status faction. It feels ugly, it's.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
All I mean.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
It's felt ugly. You've seen the masked ice agents rounding
people up. But this ruling from the Supreme Court is
surprising to me because it seems so again. I'll use
the word Unamerican, unconstitutional discriminatory. Gets stop someone because they're
speaking a different language. Aren't we the melting pot? Aren't

(13:28):
we supposed to welcome everyone legally? Right? Of course I
could walk outside and speak whatever language.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
I know.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
This doesn't feel good, doesn't feel good at all. Go
into the chat, I says, Trevor, intentional cruelty everywhere, Trailgoat
calling it disgraceful. Sushi Rule says, what will it take
for maga Christians to see how anti Christian Trump is?
I've been waiting for that one for a while, Sushi role,
and I don't see it happening. Linda, Oh, I just

(14:04):
had one from Linda. The Supreme Court no longer supports
democracy or the constitution, As I comment, with deep sadness.
It feels sad, doesn't it, and very surprising. I don't
know why, because you knew that. We knew collectively that
the Supreme Court is in Trump's back pocket. Now, it's

(14:25):
why they do the emergency docket. It's why they take
these cases all the way to the Supreme Court. They've
got an automatic stamp whenever they get there. We knew it.
But there are some things that are a bridge too far.
There are some things that feel like, nah, they couldn't
do that, could they really? I mean, in the Constitution

(14:46):
it says we're not a what so here we are
I guess. Carry your papers with you because this is
our new reality. It's upsetting and I feel like it's
causing a lot of fear for people. And at least

(15:07):
now everyone knows where they stand. If you're legally here,
carry your papers. Otherwise you could be carted off at
any moment. And I hate to say it, but I
think it's true. So let's move forward with Trump's visit
to the Bible Museum this morning. Did you know that
we had a Bible museum. I did not know. We
have one in Washington, d c. Dedicated completely to the Bible.

(15:31):
So Trump goes to the Bible Museum. There's thanks Tony
for the Bible Museum. Trump goes to the Bible Museum.
He says faith is a major part of America's DNA.
He talked about religious liberty. You know, he has this
Christian task force because he's so holy, even though you
know he's throwing people with brown skin and the clink.

(15:52):
But hey, that's okay. Jesus was a white guy, right.
So he goes to the Museum of the and he
talks about religious liberty, and he says his administration is
defending religious rights and restoring the nation's identity as one
nation under God. Wait, what again, are we not a

(16:14):
melting pot where all religions are Okay at the Bible Museum.
But that's not the worst of it, my friends, because
while at the Bible Museum, an Tony, I'm going to
need that video, Trump appears to make light of domestic abuse.
He's asked about crime rates, and he starts yammering about
crime rates, and then he says something about, you know,

(16:38):
the crime rates down eighty seven percent. But if there's
a little if a man has a little fight with
his wife and they think it's a crime, that you know,
shoots it back up. I can't have one hundred percent
crime drop because I guess he doesn't want domestic violence
considered a crime. He has a full on villain. This

(16:59):
is a bad guy. Bad guy, you know, even if
you're a macho fellow, even if you're you know, I
don't know. You want to be thought of as you know,
the action hero, the guy who protects good, righteous American values.
You know you would protect women, you would. He isn't that.

(17:21):
He's the bad guy in every movie. Go ahead, Tony safe.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
So in city there's no crime. They said, crimes down
eighty seven percent. I said no, no, no, it's more
than eighty seven percent. Virtually nothing and much lesser things,
things that take place in the home they call crime.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
You know, they'll do anything they can to find something.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
If a man has a little fight with the wife,
they say this was a crime.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
See, so now I can't claim one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
Wait what the man has a little fight with his wife,
they say it's a crime. You mean when a man
backhands his wife, that's a little crime. I'm so sorry
that your crime rate can't go down one hundred percent
because of domestic violence. Are you for real? Did he
just say that? I can't even and he said it

(18:14):
in the Museum of the Bible. I guess that's okay,
because you know, the Christian men are in charge. So
a little corporal punishment for the spouse is how it works.
I can't even like, there are some things where he
opens his face and I can't. I wonder if they
all believe that, if all the Trump staffers believe this,

(18:36):
or if he's speaking and that mouth's dropped open backstage
and they're like, okay, who's going to write that press release,
or if they're like, no, the this is our constituency,
this is our base. You know, we want to attract
these Christians who believe that it's okay to put your
wife in her place. Seriously, Karen says, nothing Trump says

(18:57):
makes sense. Lynda wants to know what happened to protecting women,
you know. Copper says, the wife, not even his wife,
reduced to property. Highest crime rate rights Rich is at
sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue. Don't talk about all the felonies
and his crimes. Okay, that's it. Randy says, yeah, all

(19:21):
the staffers believe it. They're soulless people. The Bible of
trump Ism. It's so far out there, and so like,
how do you discount domestic violence in such a way.
He's either evil or an idiot or both. That's how

(19:43):
it looks to me, Like I said, the bad guy
in every movie. So that was his nice visit to
the Bible Museum. That's really nice over the weekend, though,
I think I'm not alone in the fact that I
would have bued because Trump went to the US Open Yeah,
and he was repeatedly booed there. Now some of the

(20:08):
clips of the booing don't seem so bad. The first
time he appears, the stadium is not full. Everyone has
been delayed for security checks because the President of the
United States is there, So everyone has to be thoroughly
padded down, their bags, gone through whatnot. So it takes
people a half hour to an hour extra to get

(20:29):
into the Arthur Ash. Is that the Arthur asht Arthur
Ash Stadium, right, So he comes out. The first time
he's shown on the jumbo tron, there's kind of a
smattering of boos and some people were standing up clapping.
I mean, there's a kind of a mix.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Right.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
Then the second time he's shown on the jumbo tron
at the end of the first set, there was some
loud booing. Go ahead, Tony, let's hear it.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Him.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
The jumbler frown there, there's that guy clapping. I don't know,
I mean I heard a few booze and some jeers maybe,
but it seemed more like, uh, crowd, just crowd background noise.
To me, you have more, Tony, Oh yeah, I heard
the boom this.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
Oh, it's so yeah. Lots of booing there at Arthur

(22:03):
Ashe Stadium. The US Tennis Association had urged companies broadcasting
the match to what appeared to be censor the crowd
reaction and not show anybody who might boo or cause
any type of disturbance. The match was on ABC, and
it was also broadcast live streamed on ESPN. Now Tony

(22:25):
is telling me, listen any type of and Tony works
sports all the time, so tell me you told me before.

Speaker 5 (22:33):
Well, they always like, don't cut to anyone who's making
a distraction during the game. Like guess, like someone runs
in the field of baseball, and they'll just be like,
and the pitch and you know, they just don't even
acknowledge that someone might be running in right field. I mean,
this is normal for sports, any you know, back from
the peak in the seventies of streakers, right and stuff
like that, or that one girl in the eighties used
to run out and kiss everyone in baseball games.

Speaker 6 (22:54):
Never heard, I can't remember.

Speaker 5 (22:55):
I just but like they don't anymore, doesn't exist. Will
wants a clean image, you know, and stuff. So I
say with the NFL, I'm guessing tennis the same.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
Here's the quote to anyone. Here's the press release. The
quote from the press release that was issued to ABC ESPN.
They said, the US Tennis United States Tennis Association refrain
from showcasing any disruptions to what you said or reactions
in response to the President's attendance in any capacity.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Hmmm.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
So it seems to me there that it's not just
like a protest on the court or whatever, that it's
actually they don't want They didn't want the booze to
be to be broadcast, but ABC and ESPN did it anyway.

Speaker 5 (23:41):
Nop I, it's what are we talking about? Are you
talking about who won the final? Or are we talking
about Trump? And I think that's what they want, not
to avoid that, I think, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
No, And you know you're completely right, because that is
the big thing. The story is Trump again, It's always Trump.
The story is always Trump. Come on now. Yeah, they said,
we asked all broadcasters to refrain from showcasing any disruptions
or reactions and response to the president's attendance in any capacity.

(24:10):
And they said they regularly asked broadcasters to refrain from
showcasing off court disruptions. So ESPN didn't comment, ABC didn't comment,
but they both aired the booze or whatever.

Speaker 6 (24:23):
The camera happened to be on. We did do anything
else exactly.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
No, they didn't, you know, And it's that type of
censorship that I Trump said he did not really react
to the booze and he was standing there smiling like,
acting like everyone was cheering for him. And afterward he said,
the crowd really surprised me. They gave me a positive response.

(24:47):
And I was thinking, did you hear what I heard?
Because I didn't hear you getting a positive response? Okay,
whatever last year as well, I guess. No, he hasn't
been for a long time. He hasn't been some I
think twenty fifteen or something like that. Yeah, so it's
been a while for him. He did say that this

(25:07):
audience is largely liberal right, Tennis's going.

Speaker 5 (25:13):
On, and if we've learned anything from this, tennis fans
are liberal. Football fans are obviously you go right because
the help You know that at least college was right.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Come on. Trump also had a big weekend when it
came to his meme throwing on Truth's social He kind
of joked around about going to war with Chicago, and
that's not funny. If you're living in Chicago, maybe you're
a little nervous about that. Can we see the Can

(25:44):
we see the meme, Tony? It's like an apocalypse now
kind of meme where Trump looking all like warlike, yeah,
with the helicopters and the I don't know, is that
agent orange in the background. It's some worrish thing. I
love the smell of deep iportations in the morning, he said,
Chicago about to find out why it's called the Department

(26:04):
of War. So over the weekend, Trump signs an executive
order changing the Department of Defense's official name into the
Department of War. So we no long longer have a
Department of Defense. We have a Department of War. And
then he starts putting memes up about going to war
in Chicago with all these choppers. I love the smell

(26:26):
of deportations in the morning, and he's looking like a
I don't know, some type of military outfit. I don't
know exactly what military outfit that is.

Speaker 6 (26:36):
Oh, oh, it's from Apocalypse now, is it?

Speaker 3 (26:39):
Okay?

Speaker 6 (26:39):
Yeah, I forget, Oh, it's his name. I'll be figure
out his name, y.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Because that's not an official military hat that I've ever
seen before. But okay, so yeah, it's a meme based
on Apocalypse Now. And so Trump is asked by NBC's
reporter her her name is yamiche Ali Sandor, and now
it's it's Trump and team that has has posted this meme. Right, So,

(27:02):
once you put this out there, you have to expect
that people are gonna ask you about it. If you're
the president of the United States. That's a little inflammatory.
So Yu meet Ja Alisandre asks Trump about his threat
to use the military in Chicago. And here's what happened.

Speaker 4 (27:22):
When you say that, darling, that's sake, listen, be quiet, listen,
you do listen.

Speaker 7 (27:29):
You never listen.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
That's why you're such a great.

Speaker 7 (27:32):
You're ready to move to the second phase of sac
that much.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
And it just goes on from there. But yes, calls
her second rate, says she doesn't listen, tells her to
be quiet, calls her darling, be quiet, be quiet, darling.
You're the one that posted the apocalypse now meme he
called her. He went and called her darling, which whatever? Okay? Uh?

(27:59):
And then so she asks, are you trying to go
to war with Chicago? And he says, why would when
you say that, darling, that's fake news. And then she
asks a follow up and he says, that's when you
heard him say listen, be quiet and listen. You don't listen.
You never listen, and that's why you're second rate because

(28:19):
she asked him about the meme that he posted with
helicopters in the background. Hmm, she writes on X Illinois
Governor JB. Pritsker has accused President Trump of threatening to
go to war with Chicago. So I asked Trump, she
said if he was doing so, and he said that

(28:40):
was fake news. And I followed up and asked why
he was using the DoD and he replied, that's not war,
that's common sense. He said, We're not going to war.
We're going to clean up our city. We're going to
clean them up so they don't kill five people every weekend.
That's not war, that's common sense. And then you get
this meme with the apocalypse now and the phrase chip

(29:03):
acalypse now at the bottom and I love deportations in
the morning.

Speaker 5 (29:11):
Yeah, so, Kim, here's the actual from the movie.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
So there you go.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Oh okay, yeah, there's the hat. What branch of service
is that? Do we know? Is that army?

Speaker 6 (29:20):
It was army?

Speaker 5 (29:21):
I remember, right, it's been while to seeing the movie,
but we think it was army Army like rangers or
something like that.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
H yeah, that was That was a take on the movie.
So he gets a lot of democratic criticism, criticism from Democrats,
and he says he's not going to war with Chicago.
He said, We're just not going to war. We're just
going to clean up our cities. And the people of

(29:47):
Chicago are looking at all this going, oh, we already
know they were staging. There was a over the weekend
some lawmakers, including Tammy Duckworth, that tried to visit the
the military base Great Lakes and they locked it up
and they gave everyone at the base the day off

(30:08):
so that there would be nothing for the Democratic lawmakers
to see. And one wonders what they are really doing.
It's hard for me to fathom the United States actually
claiming war against one of its own cities. I would
imagine it's kind of a nothing burger like in DC.
They'll send the National Guarden to pick up trash. But

(30:30):
it makes them look really tough. Right. We have Gary
Dietrich coming up, I should tell you, and a really
wonderful conversation after that with Jamie Mustard, who details his
life growing up in the Church of Scientology and what
happened when he left. It is a fascinating conversation and

(30:51):
it happens in the second hour after we talked to
Gary Dietrich. But before we do, let's talk a little
bit about Epstein, because all of these other things seem
to have overshadowed this. There's a new patio at the
White House. It's a It was the Rose Garden. It
had the lush lawn and roses surrounding the lush lawn,

(31:15):
and Trump paved it over and put up tables and umbrellas,
and he's calling it the Rose Garden Club. And of
course Governor Gavin Newsom keeps coming out with these responses
to things Trump does, and Hunt on X from his

(31:36):
personal account, Newsom said He's got a new nickname for
this place. It's called the Predator Patio. So instead of yeah,
predator there, it is the Predator Patio. So instead of
Trump's Rose Garden Club and something out of mar A Lago,
Newsom's now calling it the Predator Patio. Which brings me

(31:58):
to the Epstein file and the latest going on there.
They Epstein estate records are expected to be released this
week and could shine a light on the connections that
Epstein had, could show nothing at all. But among the

(32:18):
things expected to be released Epstein's Black Book, his birthday book,
remember the birthday book with all the fun messages in there,
That is expected to be released. The last Will and
Testament is expected to come out, the agreements that he
signed with federal prosecutors in Florida in two thousand and eight.

(32:41):
Again his contacts from his Black Book, which I mean
could mean something if you're in there, and could mean nothing.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Right.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
So that's all expected to be delivered to Congress this
week from Epstein's estate. And before we get to Gary Dietrich,
I do want to play this video of Thomas Massey
on the Epstein files. He says, we can't avoid justice
to avoid embarrassment for some very powerful men. And I

(33:13):
don't know if Tony if you can bring up that video,
but he was, yeah, he's on ABC with George Stephanopoulos
over the weekend, and he's not backing down from his
request and his demands that the Epstein files be made public.
He said, again, we just can't avoid this. Here it is,
and to thank you both for joining us this morning.

Speaker 8 (33:35):
Congress and Massey, let me begin with you and get
your response to Speaker Johnson right there, he says, you've
been misled. He also suggested at one point this week
seem to suggest that Donald Trump, President Trump was an
informant of.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
The FBI about Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 9 (33:46):
Your reaction, well, they haven't been misled. And the speaker's
point that the victim's safety is compromised or privacy is
false because when we ask the survivors at our event,
did they support the legislation that Roe, Conna and I've introduced,
they all said yes. Now, I don't know if the
Speaker misspoke when he said that Donald Trump was an informant.

(34:10):
The lawyers for the victims said that Donald Trump had
been helpful in two thousand and nine in their case
by giving them information. But being an informant implies some
formal connection and ongoing relationship with the FBI. I don't
know what that's all about. I think the Speaker needs
to clarify that. And if it's a hoax, why was
Donald Trump an informant to a hoax?

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Oh that's a great question, Thank you, Tony. I appreciate it. Yeah,
why was Why would he be an informant to a hoax?
Now Speaker Johnson is backing off that claim a little
bit about Trump being an informant for the FBI, So
I don't think that story is going to go away.
We'll do a little more digging on that. But originally
Speaker Johnson said that Trump took the Epstein rumors so

(34:55):
seriously that he served as an FBI informant. That's new,
first time we've that. I am delighted to welcome a
former KGO political consultant now a consultant for the Mark
Thompson Show. He's actually iHeart TV and radio political analyst
Gary Dietrich, and we love to have him on the
show every week. Welcome Gary. Oh no, I can't hear

(35:19):
your voice. Hmmm, you're quiet. I still can't hear what
you're saying. I wonder if you need to turn a
microphone on, Tony. I'm not sure why we can't hear Gary. Hmmm,
his mic is on.

Speaker 6 (35:34):
It's just maybe.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Yeah, I don't know why we can't hear you. We
can see you. You look amazing, but we just can't
hear anything you're saying about.

Speaker 5 (35:44):
Now try now, Gary, no, even come back real fast,
just leave it. Come back something, okay, I just leaven
come back.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Yeah, thanks Gary. All right, we'll welcome Gary.

Speaker 6 (35:55):
I love technology.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
Isn't it great?

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Exciting?

Speaker 1 (35:58):
With everything train it?

Speaker 3 (36:00):
He looks good, though, I don't know. We have a
lot to talk to Gary about. Well, we'll get his
opinion on the I guess I'll ask him about the
Epstein files. Let's see what he has to say about that.
But I also want to talk to him about some
other things as well, including the death of former California
Congressman John Burton, who has died at the age of

(36:24):
ninety two. To say he was an influential Democrat isn't
really telling the whole story. He is responsible for is
the reason we have so many of the current leaders
we have today. He kind of had this machine going
where he would support and promote these Democrats into his

(36:48):
other positions of power. So among them, I believe Governor
Gavin Newsom. We'll talk to Gary Dietrich about that, about
what John Burton meant for California and meant for the
Democratic Party. Yeah, there's John Burton. John Burton was a
US Congressman, He was a California Assemblyman. He was the
president of the California State Senate, and for years and

(37:11):
years he was the chairman of the California Democratic Party.
So he had a huge influence over the Democratic politics
in the state of California. The Governor Gavin Newsom is
ordering the flags be flown at half staff in honor
of John Burton, who passed away at the age of

(37:31):
ninety two. So a nice long life for him, and
Governor Newsom also says he will posthumously induct John Burton
into the California Hall of Fame. They were friends. You know.
Burton was a mentor to a lot of these up
and coming politicians that are still around today. So his

(37:54):
legacy has impact long lasting. When you look at the
landscape of politics in California. I know that Gary Dietrich
has a lot to say about John Burton and the
legacy he leaves behind, so we'll talk to him about that.
We'll also talk about the US Treasury secretary denying Trump's

(38:17):
tariffs are attacks on Americans. We all know that we
have to pay that, right, I mean, businesses aren't going
to pay it, so the cost has always passed on
to the lucky consumer. So we'll talk about that as well.
And I have some video from Scott Bessent who says
and interesting, he says, the jobs that are being created

(38:41):
are jobs for American citizens. Does that mean it's white
people jobs. We'll take a listen to that. Let's try
Gary Dietrich again. He is the iHeart TV and political
radio political analyst Gary Dietrich.

Speaker 7 (38:56):
Hey care.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
Good, thank you for being here. And I can hear you.

Speaker 8 (39:02):
Who knows what kind of you know, Kremlin inspired gremlins
got me?

Speaker 7 (39:06):
I have no one. I mean I do this kind.

Speaker 8 (39:10):
Of stuff, as you know, all day, every day TV
side radio side stuff.

Speaker 7 (39:15):
Just happens, and it's inable.

Speaker 8 (39:17):
And of course you have your little thing on the
way in it says check your MinC fine whatever, and
it's fine, and then you go on live and you're
not working.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Fun it happens.

Speaker 7 (39:26):
It's good to be with you, my friend always.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Yeah, well usually it's Mark that gets to talk to you,
and I don't. I remember from the KGO days, no
matter what time of day I call would call you.
You were always good for a quick interview and a
quick SoundBite, and I've always appreciated that about you.

Speaker 7 (39:44):
We never do our best, my friend, Yes, you do.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
I will say that you've been in politics, especially state
and local politics, for a very long time, and I
know you probably have some thoughts on the passing of
John Burton, who died over the weekend at the age
of ninety two. I was talking before you came on
about his legacy and how many Democrats he kind of
brought up in the political system, and how his influence

(40:10):
will probably last for a very long time. What are
your thoughts?

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (40:15):
Absolutely all hit on three things real quick about Burton. Okay,
he was First off, it's important to note that he
was brothers with Phil Burton, member of Congress. Why is
that significant because Phil Burton was brought in by William
Brown whenever they had to be a redistricting and now
I'm talking about this because this is all the rage

(40:35):
in terms of topics.

Speaker 7 (40:36):
Of course.

Speaker 8 (40:37):
But Phil Burton was seen as the Wizard of Oz
behind the curtain, drawing districts that would favor Democrats in California.
He regularly was brought in to make that happen. And
of course he passed away some time ago, but that's
his legacy.

Speaker 7 (40:51):
Now.

Speaker 8 (40:52):
As far as John goes, John is credited with several things.
One is, yeah, there we go. He was contemporaries with
the you know, legendary Willie Brown. They actually entered the
Assembly in California on the exact same year, in nineteen
sixty four.

Speaker 7 (41:08):
If you can believe that, Kim, that a long time ago.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
All right, and before I was born, for sure, And
so that gives.

Speaker 8 (41:16):
You an idea of his longevity. And he came up
with Willie Brown and really put together, for lack of
a better terms, the San Francisco Democratic machine, which eventually,
of course, just translated into state power. When Willy became
speaker himself, John Burton served as Speaker. He then subsequently,
when he was turned out in the California Legislature, served

(41:38):
as the California Democratic Party's chair. So here's this kind
of three sort of you could say, memorable legendary lead
behinds for California. One was starting the careers of people
like Willie Brown, you know, helping aid him. And then
notably Nancy Pelosi after John stepped aside. Then Nancy Pelosi

(42:04):
eventually took the congressional seat in San Francisco. That launched
her intod not just state but of course national prominence.

Speaker 7 (42:10):
That's number one. Secondly, in the state capitol.

Speaker 8 (42:14):
And I'm not joking about this, people typically avoided John
Burton and why because he was He had quite a temper,
he had quite a colorful vocabulary, let's just put it
that way. And if people crossed him, he had no bones,
even in public about dressing them down with plenty of
explicatives and people were well aware of that. And lastly,

(42:37):
he really built the Democratic Party in California into a powerhouse.
Just one example of that. When he came on his chair,
the Republicans and Democrats in California are raising about equal
amounts in terms of you know, they're funding for activities
as a party. When he left, that is Burton he
had doubled that amount relative to Republicans. So he is

(42:59):
seen as quite an icon in democratic circles in California.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
Yeah, and I mean Governor Gavin Newsom has some connections
to him as well, right.

Speaker 7 (43:09):
Right, Yeah, he did, he does.

Speaker 8 (43:11):
He I mean Willie Brown and Burton kind of mentored
him along. Brown gave him his first appointment on some
little commission in San Francisco. But you could it's fair
to say that those two and then eventually in Nancy Pelosi,
were Newsom's mentors. Not to mention Kamala Harris's Francisco politics.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
I wanted to talk to you about the US Treasury
secretary over the weekend, and this is the second cut.
I have some video for Gary Tony if you can
play it. The second cut of Scott Descent, who appeared
on NBC's Meet the Press over the weekend and told
Kristen Welker that he does not believe that Americans that

(43:53):
Trump's tariffs are attacks on Americans, or that Americans will
be putting the bill for all of this. He also
had some other interesting things to say, but let's start
with that. Oh, Tony's still working for it. Uh. He again,
he dismisses concerns about the President's tariffs. Uh, and he
says this is all working. They're looking at the current

(44:15):
numbers about manufacturing jobs and the jobs that the poor
Jobs report that came out, and he's trying to spin
it all these different ways that you know, we're going
to see manufacturing increase in the United States, and the
jobs that are are being created are jobs that are
not jobs that immigrants will fill, their jobs that citizens
will fill. I It's another one of these moments, Gary,

(44:40):
where you look at what the numbers say and then
you look at their spin on the numbers and it
just doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 7 (44:50):
Well, here's the deal you have.

Speaker 8 (44:52):
You have really two lines of thought, as you know,
Kim about this whole tariff thing slash jobs slash, let's
just call it investments in the US, all right, And
of course one is you know, the common refrain and
you're kind of echoing out of Look, this is a tax,
and many economists will say it's a tax on the
consumer i e. The American people, and it's eventually going

(45:14):
to drive up inflation, it's going to drive down consumer spending,
and it could potentially, interview have a negative impact on
job creation in the US. If you have a slowdown,
especially in consumer spending, which is the single largest driver
of GDP.

Speaker 7 (45:31):
So that's one school thought.

Speaker 8 (45:32):
The other one is, well, listen, with this tariff thing,
we're forcing other nations and companies to reinvest in the
United States in as Bessente says, the manufacturing sector in particular,
what they caution and what Best was trying to do
over the weekend was say, look, that doesn't happen overnight. Right,
He's saying, what we expect by next year to start

(45:55):
seeing some of these factories come online, more jobs be created,
and really it's a folk kim on, you know, manufacturing jobs.

Speaker 7 (46:03):
Of course, the.

Speaker 8 (46:03):
Traditional blue collar Midwest is special specialty jobs as opposed
to service sector or hospitality industry jobs, which traditionally, as
you know, haven't been unionized or to a much smaller degree,
and have not paid the kind of wages that manufacturing jobs.

Speaker 7 (46:20):
Now, which of these storylines is going to win out?

Speaker 8 (46:23):
We're going to know, I mean, in the next twelve
to twenty four to thirty six months, it's going.

Speaker 7 (46:28):
To be really clear where these where this ends up.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
I think Tony has the video let's watch.

Speaker 10 (46:35):
I think that was actually held back the one big
beautiful bill, which has full expensing for factories and equipment,
was passed on July fourth. Many companies were holding back then.
So we are going to see construction jobs and we're
going to see manufacturing jobs.

Speaker 11 (46:52):
So, mister Secretary, you know the economy did add nearly
half a million manufacturing jobs under former President Biden. In
this case, since April, you're actually losing manufacturing jobs. Is
that problematic for your policies?

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Well, a couple of things, chriuse.

Speaker 10 (47:06):
We're going to get the revisions for last year next week,
and there may be as big as an eight hundred
thousand job downwarder vision. Again, this would be the second
down order vision. So I'm not sure what these people
who collect the data have been doing. It's good, we
need good data. Secondly, what we are seeing is the

(47:29):
jobs that are being created are going to either native
born or legal Americans. Most of the jobs created under
the Biden administration they went to illegal aliens.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Well, thank you, Tony, I appreciate that. So that's a
little bit of what the Scent had to say, and
once again blaming the blaming bad numbers, blaming bad data.
And I don't know how much water that holds well.

Speaker 8 (47:55):
Today, this data problem is becoming a real problem, Kim.
I mean, it doesn't matter what your perspective is, it's
not anything right. You're watching a football game. I mean,
either the balls put on the fifteen yard line or
the twenty five year yard line, and it can't be
both right. But if you don't have agreement on that,
how can either team call the play right? And I

(48:17):
mean that may be a crude analogy, but that's really
the problem right now is that there's been so much
disparity in people's perspectives on that. And as you know,
I think one of the things that's most frustrating and
angering for Americans is these constant quote unquote revisions of
the numbers up, down, sideways. This has got to get

(48:39):
figured out because right now you don't have any commonly
agreed upon set of data that economists, politicians, CEOs, others
feel like they can count on to make decisions. Lead
alone Wall Street and investors.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Yeah, I agree, let's move to redistrict. Since I only
have you for a few more minutes. We know that
California is going to be putting on the next ballot.
The issue of whether or not the voters want to
redistrict to go head to head with Texas's redistricting. But
now there's a lot of talk about Utah that they

(49:17):
could be the surprise redistricting state. I thought Utah was
a red state, but apparently, And they're doing it not
to fight back against any type of perceived injustice, but
they're redrawing congressional lines because a judge ruled last month
that Utah legislators went around safeguards against partisan jurymandering with

(49:42):
their latest lines, and so that led to the Republican
control of the four congressional seats in Utah. And now
the judge says, no, you've got to redraw these lines
before the midterm elections, which the thinking is could lead
to a Democratic seat coming out of Utah.

Speaker 8 (50:01):
It might, I mean, and you have the storyline exactly right.
So I won't repeat that or going to any more
detail about it for today's purposes. But in terms of redistricting,
there are four congressional seats in Utah. They are currently
now all controlled by Republicans. There's thought that if the
lines are redrawn, and for example, Salt Like City has
kept more intact, that's the one, as they called blue

(50:24):
dot in Utah, where there's there's more Democratic voters. So,
and I want to emphasize, could I think you did
two kid, Democrats could pick up a seat.

Speaker 7 (50:33):
But even Democrats in Utah are saying, look.

Speaker 8 (50:35):
You know, it might at best end up a competitive seat,
and maybe we have a shot at it. By the way,
similar is happening in Ohio, where the Ohio Legislature is
being required to redraw their lines as well, and so
we'll see what happens there.

Speaker 7 (50:50):
They are they're however.

Speaker 8 (50:52):
Republicans are looking to pick up as many as one
or even two seats.

Speaker 7 (50:56):
And if you want to run down the.

Speaker 8 (50:58):
Other lists real fast, you've got in looking potentially but
not with confidence, at redrawing their districts to get one
more Republican one. In Missouri, it's maybe one more seat,
and the big one sitting out there now on the Republican.

Speaker 7 (51:11):
Side is Florida.

Speaker 8 (51:12):
Governor DeSantis has said they're probably gonna do it, but
it's interesting there's not been a lot of real movement
on that practically yet, but there's thoughts that maybe they
could pick up two or three. There problem for Democrats
in places like Illinois, New York, and Maryland is that
they've got some constraints and frankly many fewer Democratic seats
I mean Republican seats to work with to pick up.

Speaker 7 (51:33):
So we'll see what us all ends up for the
next sixty days or so.

Speaker 8 (51:36):
And of course, the big kahuna right here in California,
we're in less than two months that Proposition fifty will
be decided on to see if Californians get to vote
on new district lines.

Speaker 7 (51:48):
Of course, pushed by Governor Newsom.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
It's so up in the air with all of these
different states and the politics at play and all of
these different states and who's going to redistrict and who
isn't going to and what it could all mean is
do you have no idea what's going to happen in
the midterms?

Speaker 7 (52:05):
Well, that's absolutely right.

Speaker 8 (52:06):
So Kelsea with any certainty that they know what's going
to happen as both of all this and next year's midterms,
as I like to say, has absolutely no idea what
they're talking about, because we don't even know we don't
even know what what the district lines are going to
be like in up to ten or twelve states. So
this is going to make kim of course, right here

(52:27):
in California, potentially a quarter billion dollars being spent by
both sides. I mean, people are already seeing all the
ads on TV James in their mailbox, but this is
going to happen in other states. We won't know, Kim
really and honestly till probably early next year, what the
final lines are going to look like for four hundred
and thirty five congressional seats in the United States.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
Wow, speaking of the midterm elections, though there's the is
that the current lines that the proposed lines. I'm not
sure what he's got on there. Interesting I saw this
story about Trump's job ratings that they're still negative, that
Americans are expressing support for vaccines, and that may have

(53:11):
something to do with the negativity about around RFK Junior
and vaccines and what's happening in Florida. Trump's overall approval
sits at forty three percent. Seventy eight percent of the
respondents at NBC News said they support the use of vaccines. Also,
inflation and the cost of living were economic concerns as well.

(53:33):
Is it something that Trump has to worry about these
this job rating or if they managed to can reconfigure
the you know, the the selection that people have of
Congress people, they won't have to worry about job ratings.
Is that why they're going so hard on this redistricting
because people are unhappy.

Speaker 8 (53:52):
Well, you know, you want to increase your margins anyway,
you can't going into midterms, which are historically it doesn't
matter who's the party in power in the White House,
says you know, Kim. Historically in the midterms, you lose
seats and oftentimes lose control of the House or the Senate. Now,
most experts believe, and I'm in this camp that getting

(54:14):
Democrats' chances of getting control of the Senate, you're gonna
be really tough next year. They don't have many seats
to contend and so that's gonna be a tall order.
So that's why you hear so much focus on the House. Now, listen,
these underwater approval ratings, and when we say underwater, that
always means any.

Speaker 7 (54:30):
Number of below fifty percent.

Speaker 8 (54:32):
These are a real concern and they are for any
president going into midterms. Look, here's the deal you've only had.
I was looking at these numbers over the weekend, Kim.
In the last twenty five years, last quarter of a century.
You've only had two midterms where the presidents avoided losing seats. Okay,
and that was a Bush term. George Bush Junior had

(54:54):
an Obama term where they had positive approval ratings, notably
George Bush after nine to eleven. Okay, And so history
is not favorable towards president's a period in the midterm election.
Certainly not if you've got approval ratings under fifty percent.

Speaker 7 (55:11):
So there's there's a long ways to go between now
and the fall of next year.

Speaker 8 (55:15):
As you know, I love to say, Look, that's an
that's a millennium in politics. Okay, it's only thirteen to
fourteen months to the midterm election date, but that's a
long long time. So many things could happen internationally domestically
that could really bounce those approval numbers up or down.
And it's gonna be a battle royal next year, Kim,

(55:36):
no doubt about it. But Trump right now and his
people certainly have to be concerned about forty three percent
of approval rings. Are they better than Biden's last year
going to the the twenty four election, Yeah, that's why
Biden dropped out.

Speaker 7 (55:49):
Okay, what reasons?

Speaker 8 (55:50):
But no, they're they're gonna have to focus on this,
and there's no doubt concern about it.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Before I let you go, there was a big Supreme
Court ruling today regarding the ability of ICE agents to
just sweep in and detain people based on their appearance,
where they work, where they happen to be standing, what
language they're speaking. So I thought, as we as we
say goodbye, i'd ask you for your opinion on that
as we wrap it up.

Speaker 8 (56:17):
Yeah, that's a big deal, of course, because that was
the contention down in Los Angeles. As you know, that
they're so called quote unquote profiling rather than having you know,
part evidence or a warrant, for example, an undocumented person
that maybe had committed a crime or had alleged to.
So the Supreme Court, as you rightly point out, has said, no,

(56:38):
you can use they don't use the word profiling, course,
but they you know, criteria to determine at least whether
somebody gets questioned. And that's really what this is about,
you know, questioning their status. Now I will simply end
with this, Kim. This is something this is a debate
that's gone on for a long time in law enforcement
in the United States. Be it red States or blue states,

(57:00):
can you, for example, pull somebody over or can you
stop somebody on the street based on a certain kind
of criteria. This is a debate that's been going on
for a long time, and this is one more aspect
of that that obviously right now potentially opens the door
for Ice in a way wouldn't have had the Supreme
Court struck that down.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
Gary Dietrich, thank you so much for coming in.

Speaker 7 (57:25):
My pleasure, my friend, have fun today.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
Thank you. I appreciate it. Gary. Bye. Gary Dietrich's report
is sponsored by Bill Campbell at Remax Gold. If you're
looking to relocate two or from northern California and you
need a highly respected real estate professional, Bill Campbell of
Remax Gold, that is the person to call. You can

(57:49):
call or text Bill at five three zero four four
eight seventy four seventy four. That's five three zero four
four eight seventy four seventy four. Bill Campbell of Remax
Gold sponsoring Gary's segment. Thank you Bill, the Mark Thompson Show.

Speaker 9 (58:10):
It was great.

Speaker 7 (58:10):
I loved it.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
How would you have this? We could try ignoring it,
sir morning, you cannot say you love your country.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Where are my weed?

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Smokers at Stay at Home and Get Baked. We have
a wonderful interview for you today. It is Mark and
Jamie Mustard. So Mark left behind this wonderful conversation with
Jamie Mustard, who details his life growing up in the
Church of Scientology and what it was like trying to

(58:42):
get out of Scientology. What happens when you try to
leave this cult or church. We'll find out. Mister Mustard
has a new book that details all of this as well,
and we'll have a link to that in the show description.
But I have a listen to this. This is Mark
and Jamie Mustard.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
The Mark Thompson Show.

Speaker 8 (59:07):
He was great. I love it.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Would you have this? We could try ignoring us.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Or my name.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
You cannot say you love your country?

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Where are my weed?

Speaker 6 (59:19):
Smokers at, Stay at Home and Get baked?

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Right on, everybody, right on. I'll tell you I am
very excited about this conversation that you're about to see
and hear. It involves the Church of Scientology, which has
been shrouded in mystery, and now the accounts that have
come out of the world of Scientology are excruciatingly real

(59:47):
as that cloud has cleared, and perhaps in the excruciatingly
real category and leading. It is our guest today. He's
an accomplished author and although he had and you'll hear
you're no formal education because it's kept away from him
and so many others like him, he is incredibly academically

(01:00:11):
and scholastically accomplished and now has moved on to author
research papers and major published works with some of the
titans of academia. How about it for the great Jamie Mustard.
Everyone and Jamie, welcome to our show.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Thank you, thank you for having me. I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
I'm super intrigued as everybody is, by the as I
was saying before, the repugnant nature of what we're learning
about so many of the stories that come out of
this world of scientology, some of the abuse, some of
the brutality, the way that scientology has turned. Again. This

(01:00:55):
is based on accounts, some of them, you know, quite famous.
Going Clear was the book that really became popular and
then made into a film. How you're turned on your
family if they don't embrace scientology or if they disavow scientology.
It's a really scary world. But your accounts of your upbringing,

(01:01:17):
which you detail in your latest book, child X, it's
otherworldly men, and I'm just hoping that we can cover
a few of these significant events and you can give
us a texture of what the church was like and
what it is like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Okay, okay, well yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Yeah, go ahead. I was going to say, first, let's
start with your birth, because I feel like, right out
of the shote, now, right out of the chute, your
birth takes you on a wild ride, and none of
it's good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Yeah, I was gonna I was gonna start with my birth,
and I in a context, I was only going to
say that it's been a strange and powerful couple of
weeks because an article about my life as part of
the book recently came out in the Daily Mail. And
what was so strange about it was they reached out

(01:02:12):
to the local scientology there for comments on my quote allegations.
I didn't really think they were allegations. I thought I
was just telling the story of my life. And they
responded with a declaration from my mother basically denying my childhood.
And so it's been and that, so let's go to.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
My birth, in another word, saying it didn't happen.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
It didn't happen. And even the things that they said
their admissions are terrifying. You know, there's there's their admissions
which we'll get it, which we'll get into. But to
start with my birth, I was born in the nineteen seventies.
On the day of my birth, I was handed over
to people in naval uniforms where I was raised by
a couple of caretakers in a slum nursery on the

(01:02:59):
outskirts of downtown Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
And just to jump in, and I promise I won't
do this too much, No want you were raised. I
mean I should say you were birthed in this kind
of uptown hospital I think on LA's West Side, and
then they scurry over get you and then take you
to this slum like thing that you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
I was born at Westwood Medical Center, so next to
your UCLA, you know, posh part of a nice part
of Los Angeles, which is my hometown. And then I
was handed over to people in naval uniforms and whisked
away to this to eight to eleven Beacon Street, not
far from MacArthur Park in the Rampart Police District, on

(01:03:40):
the outskirts of downtown Los Angeles, where there was maybe
one or two caretakers to thirty or forty babies, where
I would sit in my own sick lying staring up
at the ceiling for the first two and a half
years of my life.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Like an orphanage.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Not essentially like an orphanage, it was the best way
to describe it. And when I did go to play,
my playground was they would take us to MacArthur Park
where we would step over needles. Anybody that lives in
la knows what MacArthur Park is, which is you know
it was back then it was heroin, then it was
crack and now it's spent in all And that was
the first two and a half years of my life.
And when I first in an interview a couple years ago,

(01:04:18):
because I've been living in shame, I've kind of lived
a double life for the last half of my life.
I have a lot of humiliation connected to what happened
to me and just what being my life being so
out of control from birth. People have to understand that
I was born into what the scientology Inner Navy, the

(01:04:39):
so called Sea Organization, which is a kind of religious
paramilitary group. My mother was a member of that, and
the idea was that she needed to be working to
save the planet, so all of us kids were kind
of going to be penned off over here into what
I would only call animalistic conditions. And I mean there

(01:04:59):
was caretaker when I first did an interview about two
years ago, reached out to me, a seven year old
girl that used to take care of me on Beacon
Street and downtown LA, and she said, do you remember
how they bathed you? And I said no, And she said,
once a week they would run a bath for all
thirty forty babies and they would dip. There would be

(01:05:22):
two caretakers. One of them would dip you and wipe
you and then hand you to the next caretaker who
would put a diaper on you. Then they would dip
the next baby in the same water. So I spent
the first two years of my life basically being dipped
in theces And it's hard to describe the animalistic conditions
of my childhood Mark. I never learned to brush my teeth,

(01:05:44):
I didn't have bedding. I lived on congealed oily mattresses.
When we finally moved to a building on Melrose, which
was far worse than what I call the baby factory,
I was on the third bunk of a dormitory, a
slum dormitory where I was being raised in a military
structure from the age of three years old, and I

(01:06:04):
never went to school. So what makes my story so
incredible is there was a couple of years we escaped
when I was thirteen, and we went to Oregon, and
I was kind of warehousing myself without glasses, getting f's.
But other than that, I was only in school for
a few weeks here and there. My whole life for
you know, maybe a month here or a couple months there,
but pretty much my whole life without academics. At the

(01:06:26):
age of twenty, I could not write. I could read
at a high level from studying the doctrine, but I couldn't write.
I didn't know how to use a comma. I couldn't use
a sentence, couldn't write a sentence.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
You know, as I read and hear you describe this life,
I thought about sort of the Chinese indoctrination camps or
you hear about this is also true in some very
in Middle Eastern countries, some of them deeply religious, informed

(01:06:57):
by that religiosity, and these kids are put in this
again indoctrination. So you do talk about the fact that
they are indoctrinating. That is the the business. But so
it's an odd sort of indoctrination because it is it's
so one dimensional, it seems, and so insanely abusive. It's

(01:07:17):
hard to imagine that kids coming out of that program
could embrace it in any way.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
I think that you have to. Well, I mean, the
nature of indoctrination, especially if you're born a baby into
it is you know nothing else. So even though I'm
growing up in urban Los Angeles, I'm sequestered into the
into these people. And one of the early early forms
of indoctrination is I'm taught to look at you as
an outworlder a very specific way. So somebody that's not

(01:07:45):
a member of this movement I'm taught is I'm even
at three years old, I would have been taught this. Okay,
you're known as a walk which is an old British
racial slore for worthy Oriental gentlemen. It's colonial when you
go into a colonial country, what they call the locals
that they would be civilizing. That word is equivalent to

(01:08:05):
the N word in England today, scientologists still use it.
So I would have taught been taught I was taught
when you were when I was by the time I
was three or four, that you were a wog, which
is like a muggle the walking dead. So even when
I would get exposed to somebody like you, because I
am living at urban Los Angeles, I'm looking at you

(01:08:26):
as some sort of bizarre, potentially sinister force that can
hurt me.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Even as you return to, as you suggest, this withering
situation that you're being raised in in terms of the militarism,
you can describe some of the brutality. It's just it's insane.
As you I guess, as you say, if it's all
you know and you know you have to come back
to it, you just can fear it and accept it.

(01:08:57):
But you know, you describe a kind of humiliation that
they are inflicting upon you and a kind of brutality
that's unrelenting.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I signed my first billion
year contract with an X when I was five years old,
at the same age that I believed in the Easter
Bunny and the Sandman and the Tooth Fairy. That was
one of the things that was presented to Scientology in
England about my story that my mother refuted in a

(01:09:27):
declaration and this is how crazy this is. Mark. She
refuted this declaration, saying he's lying he was at five,
he was seven or eight, and I was there and
it was adorable. This is in the Daily Mail. You
could google my name child X, the book Jamie Mustard,
the Daily Mail. This article just came out a week

(01:09:48):
and a half ago, maybe I think a week ago Sunday.
And so that's their refutation, is that I was. I still,
at seven years old, believed in the Sandman, Santa Claus,
the Tooth Fairy and right, so I get you know.
One of the things that people have asked me is
a why are you here? Why now, in your middle
age are you talking about this thing that you've been

(01:10:08):
My agents didn't know, my publishers didn't know. I mean,
I've been living kind of a secret life in a
way because of all this shame and humiliation that I've
carried of being that vone. I don't know it's in
my cells because of the physical abuse. But one of
the reasons I'm here is because this is a lost
generation of children that this happened to the son of

(01:10:30):
the religious Navy group, the children, the sons and daughters
of this Religious Navvy group on over forty years on
four continents. This occurred in Sydney, Australia, Johannesburg, South Africa,
Mexico City, Central Florida, Urban Los Angeles, Copenhagen, Denmark, and
southern England, including Neil Gamitt who would have been the
first generation, which I can talk about if that's where

(01:10:52):
someplace you want to go and one of the questions,
So I'm here to tell this untold story. People know
everything about scientology. When I go to the media with
what's in this book and I talk about the lost
children of Scientology, US kids that grew up in a
paramilitary navy, and they say, what are you talking about,
Like this story has never been told with all the

(01:11:13):
aftermath and all that stuff. So it's one of the
reasons I'm here because I've lost so many friends to
drug addiction and suicide or they're so broken they can't
speak for themselves.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
Yeah. In fact, I'm glad you note that, because I
see that almost as an inevitable course, given everything that
you were up against as a kid. So continue to
fill in just a little bit on the specific side,
because you do describe as I say this, it's a
hellish existence.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Yeah, I mean, we ate slot. There were public beatings.
They called them public spankings, but they were public beatings
where we were forced to watch other kids get beat
In fact, one of the ways they taught us you
mentioned kind of Chinese indoctrination, Hubbard talked, they taught us
through repetition, which they called Chinese school. So they would
repeat a doctrine to They would say a doctrine to us,

(01:12:03):
and we would repeat it in unison. So some of
the earl So okay, well, let me talk about one
of the questions that people ask. I'll talk about kind
of why it was that way, because I keep getting
asked this, and then I'll talk about some of the
early indoctrination. One of the questions that people keep asking.
Your listeners or your watchers are probably thinking it right
now is why would any group of people go out

(01:12:27):
of their way to treat children so animalistically? Because that
is what it was. It was animal like conditions. No
sheets again, I'll say it again. I did not learn
to brush my teeth. I didn't have underwear, I didn't
have bed sheets. It was we were living in a slum,
stacked like sardines in this military environment, and people kind

(01:12:49):
of go, well, it seems like it would be hard
work to treat kids like that. Why would you do
that if you wanted them to be part of the movement?
And the only way I can describe it is the
way they think is that production is everything. Work is everything.
Hubbard said, production is the basis of morale. So your
parents are feeding the organization, you're a useless eater. So
they really viewed us as the way you say, you're

(01:13:11):
Mark Thompson and you're the pig farmer, You're not going
to put your pig up in the rich Carlton. You're
gonna put your piglet in a pig pen for as
little resources as possible until it's ready for slaughter five
or ten years later. So we were pretty much penned
like animals until we could be used for labor starting
at nine to twelve years old.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
And what was the kind of labor that kicked in
at nine years old?

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
At nine years old, I was used for child labor
when we moved to the old hospital. Not long after
we moved to the old hospital, which is that big
blue building. It was beage back then, that big blue
building on Sunset that everybody sees around the world. The
first job I ever gave is they had me using
this stuff called naval jelly. Because I was small, they
would put me in a hazmat suit and have me

(01:13:57):
use this toxic chemical to the air vents of the
hospital all day. They put me in there in the
morning and take me out at night, and I would
be scrubbing them with this toxic chemical. Then sometimes they
would leave me alone for a year and I would
just be lingering in the la drought. And then you know,
there's something that happened in the book where right around

(01:14:18):
that same time, you know, nine ten years old, they
had me clearing fiberglass with kitchen gloves. So all day
where my entire body and the inside of my mouth
at eight or nine would be packed, would be packed
with fiberglass. And then I would go home at night
and take these kind of searing baths in the slum

(01:14:39):
in the tenement, and the needles would float out of me,
and then I would do it all again the next day,
and that labor changed over the years.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
The presence or lack of your mother's presence is an
interesting subplot to all of this, because of course it
was the first thing she you know, relinquishes her child
because maybe she does it usiastically because she's doing sea
org stuff or whatever. And then you you get to
your grandparents. I'd love to get to that that moment
as well. But just as a pause, here, where is

(01:15:10):
your mother through all of this? Through you know, age nine,
you're cleaning the you know, using these toxins et cetera.
Give us a sense of where your mom is. Your
interaction or lack of interaction.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
Well, different parts. You know, she's in different places at
different times. When I'm three years old, she's off in
Hollywood working probably at the Chateau Elise across from Birds
and uh La bou Belle.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Okay, right, that's the celebrity center there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
Yeah, but they used to have it. There's where the
where the garden pavilion is Now they have an annex
that was the was was was their advanced division and
then became a child care facility. So she was off
of that advanced division as a counselor, using their machine
to deliver past live counseling. Then she went to train
in Florida for a couple of years, and so I

(01:15:55):
was in the dorms after I was in the La
the La FBI raid when I was a little kid,
which was the largest FBI raid in history.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
With it, that's a great story. Tell that story quickly.
It's unreal.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
I mean they I was a little kid. They woke
us up at it was the largest FBI rate in
history based on the largest domestic spying campaign in US
history with the hub where the scientologists had infiltrated, the
US government were spying on them. And it was midnight.
They woke us eleven or midnight. They woke us up,
They came us, They brought us around the building all
night as FBI agents swarmed into the hospital.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
We were when you say they you're talking about the scientologist.
Did scientologists met you from FBI exactly?

Speaker 7 (01:16:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
Yeah. They were trying to keep us from the agents,
but we saw him anyway. And and what was so
strange about it when I got older, is we're living
in these horrific conditions. There was a woman who had
been framed for bomb threats, Dan Paullack Cooper, who was
a baby Holocaust survivor, that was exonerated and it was
proved that scientology had framed her and she was about

(01:16:54):
to go to federal prison for a decade or more.
She was exonerated from that raid, but they didn't care,
and they completely ignored the living conditions and the state
that us children were in. So you know, my life
was a harrowing. It was like a twig being or
a feather of something being twisted on a river. And
I lived this incredible life, but it was not by

(01:17:15):
my own choosing. I was being swept down this river.
I remember one time that's in the book, when I
was about eight years old. I hadn't seen my mother
in a year year and a half, and somebody came
over to the dorm on Fountain Avenue, right across from
the Big Blue building where we lived as a tenement,
and said, we're bringing you to meet your mother. And
I was brought almost to an upper floor of the

(01:17:35):
big Blue building into a waiting era with all these
card tables and chairs, and there were all these a
couple other kids and other people waiting behind these chairs
and card tables, and then my mother came out in
black wearing an armband, and it was explained to me
that she was in Scientology's hard labor camp, where you
could spend anywhere from three to fifteen years doing hard

(01:17:57):
labor all day, wearing an arm band that you would
see out of Dacau or you know, Auschwitz or Berkanau,
you know, and for your behavior, and you have to
run everywhere all day, I mean run everywhere for three
to fifteen years. I'm not saying walking is not allowed.
You're not allowed to speak unless spoken to, even by
your own child or your spouse. You're being interrogated, doing

(01:18:20):
very very harsh scientology interrogation on their machine at night.
And then you're doing ten to you know, fifteen hours
probably fifteen hours of hard labor a day, depending on
the time, twelve to fifteen hours of hard labor a day,
three to five hours of indoctrination a day, and just
you're eating slop and you're living in My mother was

(01:18:42):
on this, and she was explained to me that she
was bad and she had to do this to redeem herself,
and that Hubbard, the great benevolent mister Hubbard, had created
a system where someone bad like her could redeem themselves
with no And again, I didn't see my mother for years.
At this time, seems.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
Like almost a limitless capacity they had for inhumanity and
for cruelty.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
And you believe that it's humane the whole time. I mean,
at sixteen years old, my brother got sent to that
hard labor camp for for sleeping with his girlfriend. And
he spent from sixteen to twenty three on that hard
labor camp, seven years for doing what teenagers do, you know,
sleep having sex with his girlfriend. And he was never
the same after it, and he's still involved in the movement,

(01:19:29):
you know. But the other thing is the indoctrination. It
started when I was four years old. I mean, human
emotion is frowned upon. If we got upset as kids,
we would be told to knock off the human emotion
and reaction. They would call it to stop dramatizing. We
were faking. We were If we were crying, it was
because we were doing something that was a we were

(01:19:53):
stimulated or trying to find the word they have all
the special yeah, yeah, I try not to use the
words triggered by a past life or something. So human
emotions you learn to if you're if you hurt yourself
or you're sick, you're labeled a potential trouble source. You
have a stigma scarlet letter put on you, so you
learn to hide your illnesses. I probably had about five

(01:20:13):
near death experiences where and I'm hiding any sort of
if I hurt myself or I'm sick, You're trying to
hide it because you're you're you're given this label of
a potential trouble source, which is like a scarlet letter
that you're bad.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
So you know, it's like everything that happens to you,
you created. It's your fault.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
There's a term in this thing called pulled it in,
and anything bad that happens to you, you pulled it
in based on something bad you did in a previous
life or in this life. So you learn. You get
highly stigmatized and outcasted and looked at as bad or
evil if you're sick or injured. So you learn. And
so I had set up, you know, probably three to

(01:20:54):
four near death experiences from medical neglect. And the only
reason I didn't die is because we went on a
trip to visit my relatives in New York and for
the first time ever in five years, they looked at
my body and then I would be rushed to the
emergency room.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
Yeah, tell that story. That's because in your story, child X,
you're thinking, Okay, well, this is the moment where some
sanity will rule the day, like these people coming in
from the outside, they're going to take hold and rescue
this guy and sort of happens, sort of doesn't happen though,
more than anything. Tell the story about you being a
rush to the hospital, well.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
Few, there's a couple of those stories. I mean, one
of them was when I was four or five, we
went on the trip to New York. My grandmother, who
was very warm, put me in the tub in her
house in Westchester County, looked down at me and screamed
for my stepfather, where I was rushed to the emergency
room with an infection in my lower extremities that could

(01:21:50):
have gone septic and killed me. The only reason it
wasn't found out about was because no one was looking
at my body in these dormitories. And I was so
numb the abandonment of not having parents. I didn't, you know,
pain was just a normal thing that I felt, so
I didn't know to say that something was wrong. A
few years later, I was back in New York and

(01:22:12):
I said I couldn't hear, but it was going in
and out. My mother told my grandmother I was spaking.
They insisted on going to see a doctor that had
interned under my grandfather when my mother was a kid
in a neighboring town in New Rochelle, New York. We
went to New Rochelle. The doctor looked at my ears,
very kind black woman named Lucille Gunning. She turned to
my grandmother and said, you're going to be taking Jamie

(01:22:34):
into the city and you're going to talk to this doctor.
And I went into surgery the next morning and they
weren't sure if they were going to be able to
save my hearing. I had my tonsils taken out, my
adenoids removed.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:22:46):
They weren't be sure they were going to save my hearing.
So medical neglect is a huge part of the story.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
You know, Jamie, your mom and your family there. It's
against the backdrop of all of that that this happens,
and it's the part of it that I think a
lot of us who hear the story read the story
are perplexed by. You know, it's just confusing because she's
not from some background of Squalor and the horror show

(01:23:17):
that was about to you know before your upbringing. She's not,
is she? I mean, she's her background in your family background?

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
What was it my On my mom's side, the story
with my father is very complicated, so I urge you
to read the book because it's kind of unbelievable. All right,
it's right out of Star Wars. But on my mom's side,
my mother came from a prominent black family. My grandparents

(01:23:47):
met in medical school, a school called Mehary Medical School,
which has got some famous black medical school outside of Nashville.
My grandfather was a doctor, a very very prominently sex ful,
successful doctor. He was a flight surgeon during World War
Two and he was stationed in Burma, and he was

(01:24:07):
a famed Tuskegee airman. And so I think that if
he had not died. So what's incredible about my family
is I could trace my family, that side of my
family back all the way back to eighteen sixty five
before since since to slavery, and between eighteen sixty five
and nineteen forty seventy five years, what my family accomplished

(01:24:30):
is remarkable. It's just an incredible family of physicians, Black
physicians and black wealth. And what's incredible is that my
grandfather's a Tuskegee airman. He was born a millionaire and
when he was at Black medical school in Nashville. He
used to go work as a porter at Nashville train

(01:24:52):
station so that the other kids at the medical school
didn't know he was rich. And the day he finished
medical school left the South and bought a huge house
in Connecticut and a Jewish neighborhood across the street from
Sydney Poitier. And so the question is, after all of
this success, the grandson is born as slave. How does

(01:25:12):
that happen? And that's what my book Child X is about.
And it's different than any book that's ever been written
on this subject because it's not a this happened to
me and that happened to me. It's a history book
that has a context of my life. And the book

(01:25:33):
is called child X because the idea is that my
life was marked for labor and my future was marked
before I was born by this science fiction naval group
that I've been humiliated about most of my life. I

(01:25:55):
never thought I would be here talking to someone like
you open about it because there was so much pain
and literacy connected to it. What's so startling about my
story is that I escape at nineteen semi literate. I
can't write, I can barely I don't know how to
use a comma. I don't know how to use a period.
I can read at a high level from studying the doctrine,

(01:26:15):
I don't know math above kindergarten. And I get with
this relative says to me, you can stay at my
house if you're in school, beauty school, trade school, anything.
So I'm just studying for rent in New York and
I start doing remedial classes at a Westchester community college
with no ambition other than I need someplace to live.

(01:26:36):
And this person says, if I'm studying, I can stay
at their house. Five and a half years later, I
graduate from the London School of Economics, which is one
of the most lofty or I don't know what the
word prestigious or yeah, yeah, prestigious and rarefied schools in

(01:26:57):
the world. So you know, how did I That is
a huge part of this story because I was illiterate.
I mean I could read at a high level from
setting the doctrine, but I could not I had no
expressive I couldn't write and I couldn't even do.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
The most Why did they discourage writing? And that is
why don't they teach you how to write? If they've
taught you how to read.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
Well, they don't technically teach you how to write. They
don't technically not teach you how to write Hubbard ala At.
Hubbard was kind of really down on formal education. He
said that all people needed was reading the three rs, reading, writing, arithmetic. Okay.
So the only way I can describe it is all

(01:27:37):
of the resources in that group in Slimetology are towards
making money, and children were looked at as kind of
useless eaters that we're going to be valuable for ten
eleven years, So how can we spend the least amount
of resources with them? They had so called schools with
fancy names. I don't use any of the language in
the book. They had a school that we went to

(01:27:58):
called the Apollo Train Academy. It was an out of code,
dangerous office building with the dirt patch in the back
exposed to the sun. So that's one of the things
I do in the book is I don't use any
of the terms. And it's really an incredible story of
I wrote this. I did write the story. I didn't
feel the need to honor the kids that I grew
up with because their story has never been told. The

(01:28:21):
story of the Lost generation, the children of scientology, has
never been told. And I had to honor them because
they would be reading this book, but I didn't they
were The second I wrote it wasn't really writing it
for them. I was writing it for anyone that is
in a place in life, in the world where they
absolutely can't come back. They're done, it's over, You're too

(01:28:44):
far gone, and you can still come back. That's the
story of Child X.

Speaker 1 (01:28:50):
I mean, it's so insanely compelling. I guess I was
focusing on your mom for a heartbeat.

Speaker 2 (01:28:57):
Because yeah, we can go back to because.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
She's surrendering her child to what she knows or squalorous
conditions and oppressive conditions, and it just seems so counter
to a maternal instinct and just knowing what's right and wrong.
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
Yeah, sorry, yeah, no, I was just gonna say, the
kind of indoctrination that she must have already been going
through must have been so intense that that just, you know,
those things just didn't factor in.

Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
I think it's also a product of the time. You know,
you have a person that is, you know, a child
of the sixties. You know, she's coming of age in
the late sixties, early of seventies, you know, and she's
this was a very terrifying time to be alive in America.
You had all these assassinations, you know, Medga, Evers, RFK, JFK, Martin, Luther, King,

(01:29:42):
Malcolm X. I mean, they were just and then you
had the Vietnam War with fifty thousand people Americans dead.
I mean, just that's Americans. And then you had the
Cuban Missile crisis. I mean, when I was a kid
going to school in La we did these nuclear missile
drills where that we were going to have to go under.
This was a time where the late sixties and the

(01:30:03):
seventies in America, where we really thought the world might
burn up in nuclear fire. I cover this extensively in
the book. It's the context of how our parents were thinking.
It wasn't just scientology. Our parents were joining thousands of
these religion these alternative religious groups and communes across the country.
And my mother, you know, as much as she brutalized me,

(01:30:25):
I explained her life. When she got a rare form
of diabetes, type one diabetes that could have killed her
at eleven or twelve, and then her father she was
a daddy's girl dies when she's young, and I just
think that this shattered her. And then you have the
context of the sixties, so it created a perfect storm
for her to find a way to cope with existence

(01:30:46):
like so many other people of that time. And that
is exhaustively talked about in the context of Child X,
because I want people to understand how this entire lost
generation in the context of Scientology has never been spoken about,
and why I want people to understand how this particular

(01:31:07):
tale of Scientology that's told in Child X has never
been told. This particular tale of the children of Scientology's
paramilitary naval organization has never been told. And I got
to the point where I thought, if I don't tell it,
maybe it will never get told, and that I've lost
a lot of friends, and I felt like I had

(01:31:28):
to put my shame aside and tell the story first.

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
I love that you can textualize it and you build
a framework around it, because it was in that crucible
of everything going on in the sixties. I mean, America's
cities were on fire. Literally, there was a civil rights movement,
a roiling sense that anything that's on you, you say
it so well. I think in Vietnam War. You throw
in that as well, and so there's a sense that

(01:31:58):
you're looking for some mooring, you're looking for some security,
or looking for a community, and it was a time
of openness of you know, the flower Children make Love,
not war, et cetera. So all of these different things
we're cropping up. I think you're so smart to, you know,
painted against that backdrop. We've heard so much in the
way of these horror stories. The Lea Remedy Show brought

(01:32:20):
it to television, and the as I was I mentioned before,
Going Clear, et cetera. But wow, your work seems kind
of uniquely targeted at explaining how there was the explosion
of this consciousness of this church and how they gained
so much momentum, And it's fascinating to me. It's also

(01:32:45):
the specifics of scientology, the teachings are fascinating as well,
because those who are in the church through the decades eighties,
nineties enough to up to today, they swear by the
teachings of Scientology. I guess that's the religiosity of it.
Maybe because you get a religious fervor oftentimes with many
men different kinds of sex.

Speaker 2 (01:33:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean I knew
Leah Remedy for when I was younger. We share a
really one of my best friends is one of her
best friends. And what makes my story a little different,
but not different from Leah and maybe others. I knew
Danny Masterson, right, I is what makes my story different

(01:33:25):
than them is that I was born as an infant.
I was I was immediately delivered into their paramilitary nursery.
And these paramilitary nurseries were mirrored around the world, in
Central Florida, in Sydney, in South Africa, in Los Angeles.
I mean the ones in South Africa and say Mexico
City were smaller, but the ones in Copenhagen and southern England,

(01:33:47):
these were significant. Neil Gamon would have been the generation
before me. People don't know this. I mean, his father
was not only the head spokesperson for all of Scientology
for many years a close confidant of Hubbard, but was
at one point ahead of Scientology's secret police, the Guardian's Office,

(01:34:07):
which we know today is the Office of Special Affairs.
And you know, I know there's been all this controversy
with Neil, but I also understand I don't want to
justify anything that he's done. But I would say if
you had Sadanism reaped upon you, you might be a
bit of a sadist, you know, And I mean Neil.

(01:34:28):
People don't know this. Before Neil Gaman was Neil Gaman,
he was the head. He was a member of this
paramilitary organization, running the organization in Birmingham right well not
right before he became a successful started to have a
career as a writer. So this story of what happened
to these kids of the paramilitary organization on four continents

(01:34:49):
has never been told, and these kids are starting to
age out, and I felt like if I didn't tell it,
it was never And I don't really have an axe
to grind either with these guys. I just felt that
I got to a point where the story needed to
be told, and my publisher convinced me that it could
be a book that would be redemptive for the human spirit,

(01:35:10):
for human beings as a whole. I didn't write it
as a tell all about scientology. I wrote it because
what my grandparents achieved in seventy five years after slavery
was astonishing. As my grandfather was this esteemed surgeon with
generational wealth and then his grandson who is born a slave.

(01:35:31):
How does that happen?

Speaker 1 (01:35:33):
You know your story is amazing though, because you kind
of repeated the same course born a slave, end up
at the line in London School of economics. You know
you were you know again you could only read, not write,
and you had to sustain a life through the brutality,
through the neglect. I mean it's a pretty you know,

(01:35:57):
it's like a Charles Dickens, you know, meet horror movie
kind of of write up. I mean it, you know,
the pitch is almost too grim for you, you know,
for you to sit in a in a room and
do it. But what I'm saying is simply, you know,
I see the parallel oddly between right, your your grandfather
and your and yourself. And it's interesting to know the motivation,

(01:36:20):
which is, as you say, was just to get the
story out. So have you heard from others who grew
up in this on these kinds of withering conditions?

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
I gotta tell you, Mark it it's so funny that
you asked that, because that was the terrifying thing about
writing this book. I decided not to use any of
his language, Hubbard's language, and to strip it bear so
you could read it for what it was, which has
never been done in a book like this. And I
and I was terrified. I felt like they were the secondary.

(01:36:53):
Like I said, people, I was writing for the kids
I grew up with. I wanted to tell their story.
But I was terrified all the way through. Terrified. I
don't know if the right word. I felt a great
weight to get it right because I thought, if I
get something wrong, they these kids are gonna call bullshit?
Can I say bs ye okay? And so that was

(01:37:18):
a very strong weight. And what was so powerful about
this Daily Mail article that came out a week ago
is what the institution admits to is astonishing. It's just
what they admit to. There's one thing they did to
me where I when I was eighteen nineteen years old,
I was trafficked on their on their free winds on
their cruise ship in the Caribbean. And it's a harrowing story.

(01:37:41):
And their denial, they don't even deny it. The worst
thing they say is their doctor has no records of
me being there and being in the infirmary because I
was put through this thing at eighteen nineteen years, nineteen
years old in the engine room that was pretty harrowing,
and I ended up in the infirmary and they said
their doctor has no record. There was no doctor there,
So that's quite funny that they said that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:03):
Yeah, all the way is to have a problem with
that story. That was the one that they chose out,
the one specific that they had an issue with.

Speaker 2 (01:38:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's see if I'm so. I you know,
so the kids that I grew up with, that was
the part that I was I really felt a weight
to get it right. And that's been one of the
most powerful things is these kids that I was there
with at the baby factory in downtown LA, at the
Melrose Building in these kind of below animalistic, below third
world conditions. These kids are writing me and they're saying

(01:38:33):
things to me. One girl that I was there with,
in fact, that's really really this friend that I share with,
Lea Remedy. We share a best friend, wrote me, who's
been put her took seven years to put herself through
night school at UCLA and graduating college. She's had a
successful life. She's one of the very very rare ones.

(01:38:54):
And she wrote me when she was reading the book
and said, I I went to see her when I
was in La doing some media and I gave her
a book and she seemed really cynical about it and
like she wasn't going to read it. And then she
started writing me. She started picked it up as she
started writing me, and she said, and she finished it
very quickly, and she just said, I no one in

(01:39:17):
my life could ever know me because of what we
went through, not my children, not my closest friends, not
my boyfriend. And now I can hand them your book
and they can finally know me. And so the kids
that have reached out to me that I was in
these dormitories with, that have told me that their story
has been told for the first time, the weight off
me for that, the way I felt has been It

(01:39:39):
makes me emotional to.

Speaker 1 (01:39:40):
Talk about, of course. I mean that's a tremendous, tremendous accomplishment.
I mean that may be the greatest thing that can
be achieved in getting a story told the way you
told it. Look, I want to let everybody know that
there are links under this video to this book child X,
but also Jamie's prolific author and their other books, his

(01:40:02):
other works. You can find them also under this video
their links there. I know you have a graphic novel
coming out. I think in the fall, I'd love for
you to come back, and you don't always have to
come back to you know, to mention a book or
to promote a book. I you're a friend of the show,
and we share some overlap in our personal life too,
and I just adore all of that. So you've got

(01:40:25):
a friendly port here anytime.

Speaker 2 (01:40:27):
Man, Thank you, thank you, And you know I just
at the end here, I would just urge people to
check out Child X. If you want to support me,
I'm going to shamelessly say read this, get this thing
and and see. I really feel like if people understood
what had happened to the kids we would have, there
would be more justice in the world. So read what

(01:40:48):
happened to us, and we'll change this.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
I do want to on this because I'd love to
have you come back and even revisit aspects of Child X,
because we've only got a broad stroke here, I know,
but do me this favor, and in as best you
are able, tell me what's happened to that program to
which you've referred in scientology, those other kids that militaristic

(01:41:11):
set up sea orgs still exists. I know, I mean,
can you just like do a reducto sort.

Speaker 2 (01:41:16):
Of yeah, yeah, around yeah. In the mid eighties, when
I was a kid, they banned having babies in the
in Scientology's paramilitary because they were turning out like us,
like me. And so when I we went I went
off to Orgon for a couple of years, which saved
my life. And then when I came back, all my
friends over the age of fourteen were living in the
street around the Big Blue Building in Hollywood, and that

(01:41:41):
which is covered in the book. I mean it was.
It was right out of It's like some It's right
out of like Guards Breathless and a sci fi experience
in the middle of Hollywood, and.

Speaker 1 (01:41:55):
They created a generation of this.

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
Yeah yeah, And all these kids were living on you know,
they're trying to stay close to their parents, so they're
fifteen years old living in apartments right next to the
Big Blue Building in Hollywood. It was completely an incredible
scene and a lot of them got involved. There was
an Armenian kid that ran a market in Hannan's who
was DJed. All of our parties turned out that he
was a kind of He had all this equip it

(01:42:19):
brand new Corvette and brand new gsx R eleven hundred
and twenty five thousand. He DJed all our parties. We
grew up in this kind of Mexican Armenian neighborhood, and
this kid was hiring some of the local scientology kids
that'd be kicked out to commit They were stealing motorcycles.
I mean, there was like this weird mix of like
sci fi cult and it was It's something that scene

(01:42:43):
had never has never been told in a book, and
it's in child X and it's quite it's quite. It's
quite something again.

Speaker 1 (01:42:51):
The link to it is under this video Child X. Jamie,
thank you, come back again and let's talk more about
this book. There's a lot here and there are a
lot of details and I'd like to even catch up
more on some of that which we only had a
chance to kind of sort of broad stroke here. So
thanks again.

Speaker 2 (01:43:09):
I would love it. I'd love it to I'd love
to come back and you know, the next couple of
months or as time allows.

Speaker 1 (01:43:15):
You got it. Yeah, yeah, No, you're a busy guy too.
I know you're everywhere and it's you know, it's terrific.
I mean, your your story alone is worth a good
long conversation and a look, and you tell that story
in child X, and you also fill in a lot
of other blanks.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):
Yeah, people want to know, how do you not go
to school your entire life and then graduate from the
one school economics. Well I explained how I did it.
So it's a credit. It's the whole. The point of
this book is not for ex scientologist, It's for the
human race. And the point of this book is you
can be in the deepest hole of human existence and
think that there is no way out and still get out.

(01:43:51):
That's why I wrote it.

Speaker 1 (01:43:53):
Jimmy Mustard Child X. Thanks Pale, appreciate you coming through.

Speaker 2 (01:43:57):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:43:58):
It's Mark Thompson Show, The Great Interview with Mark and
Jamie Mustard. You'll find the link to Jamie's book and
the chat. It's also in the show description and really

(01:44:22):
recommend it. Wow, that's crazy. Earlier in the show, Tony,
we talked about Trump's visit to the Bible Museum and
his complete disregard for domestic violence and the safety of women.
But it turns out that's not the only thing that
happened at the Bible Museum. Trump He's but he did

(01:44:45):
today well, in addition to completely disregarding women and seemingly
advocating for domestic violence and considering it not a real crime.
Trump announced plans to reintroduce prayer in public school yay, no,
He said, he has plans to have the Department of

(01:45:07):
Education issue new guidance protecting prayer and public schools. Do
we not have a separation of church and state? Are
they just going to trample on the constitution until there's
nothing left. He makes this appearance this morning at the
Museum of the Bible. And this, by the way, this
museum was founded by the family, the Green family, who

(01:45:30):
owns Hobby Lobby. A big surprise there. He didn't provide
a timeline about this new prayer in schools thing, but
he said this, for most of our country's history, the
Bible was found in every classroom in the nation. Yet
in many schools today students are indoctrinated with anti religious propaganda.

(01:45:52):
We know the Supreme Court banned most prayer in public
schools in a number of decisions in the nineteen sixties.
They've been pushing those to get this prayer in school.
We've already seen it in pizza hut or just five
dollars each to a five PM. Oh, I don't know
what that is, but we do know. I'd rather listen
to it commercial than prayer in school. It is legal

(01:46:13):
for people to pray in school to themselves or in groups.
If they want to pray before a game, or pray
before a test, or pray whenever they want to pray,
pray before lunch. You can pray in school. What is
not legal is to have the teacher or the school
force you to pray or lead prayer. So if it's

(01:46:36):
your individual desire to pray, to close your eyes and
you know, talk to God whenever you want, you can
do that, but the school can't teach it because in
this country we have a separation of church and state.
But in the last year or so, there have been
states that have decided that the Ten Commandments need to

(01:46:58):
be posted in our classrooms. And now apparently Trump wants
the Bible in every classroom. I don't he said. For
most of our country's history there was a Bible in
every classroom, maybe back in the day of the one
room schoolhouse. I the only time I ever remember a
Bible in the classroom was during a lesson on comparative religion,

(01:47:21):
where you had a section on the Bible. You had
a section on the Quran, you had a section on
the Torah. Whatever religion you could think of, they would
present in sections. You know, here's this religion, here's that religion.
But there wasn't just a Bible in class all the time.
I don't ever remember that. But apparently that will be
the new way under the Trump administration. And if it's

(01:47:44):
taken to the Supreme Court, I have zero faith that
they will uphold the Constitution because that's the new America.
Let's do a little bit of news, Tony.

Speaker 12 (01:47:54):
What do you say, Yes, it's the news on the market.

Speaker 3 (01:48:06):
Half a minute, it's coming and I can't do it
without the big fancy intro. Here it is on the
Mark Comference Show. I'm Kim McAllister. This report sponsored by
Coachella Valleycoffee dot Com. The Supreme Court is giving ice

(01:48:26):
officers more flexibility during operation tactics in the Los Angeles area. Today,
the Supreme Court blocked a federal judges ruling that restricts
federal officers from stopping people based on their race or ethnicity,
or if they speak Spanish. The decision in response to
an emergency request filed by the Trump administration. It puts

(01:48:46):
on hold the ruling from a Biden appointed judge, so
now ice agents will be able to stop you based
on your appearance, your location, or the language in that
you are speaking. A federal appeals court is denying President
Trump's bid to overturn a verdict that ordered him to
pay more than eighty three million dollars for defaming writer

(01:49:08):
Ejen Carroll. The judges found Trump failed to identify any
grounds that would warrant reconsidering the prior holding on presidential immunity.
It comes after lawyers for the president had signaled last
week but they'll be asking the Supreme Court to overturn
a separate civil lawsuit filed by Carol against Trump, in
which she was given five million dollars. The president doubling

(01:49:30):
down on his vow to clean up Chicago, despite brushing
off questions about going to war with the city as
fake news. His comments following weekend protests against his repeated
threats to send federal troops, including a social media post
warning Chicago is about to find out why it's called
the Department of War. Trump is also saying he's considering

(01:49:52):
deploying troops to New Orleans while Homeland Security is confirming
federal immigration raids are already underway in the city of Boston.
South Korea's foreign minister is in the United States today
to help bring home about three hundred Korean workers arrested
last week working illegally at a Georgia Hyundai plant. The

(01:50:12):
planned so far as to fly the workers, mostly employed
by subc contractors, home on chartered flights. House lawmakers say
they have enough votes to force the release of the
Justice Department files on Jeffrey Epstein, Republican Thomas Massey, and
Democrat Rocana, telling ABC's this Week they are confident their

(01:50:33):
petition will bring the measure to a vote, despite potential
Senate hurdles of the Justice Department redactions. Thursday, we mark
twenty four years since this September eleventh attacks, and new
reporting now shows that nearly fifty thousand people fifty thousand
have been diagnosed with nine to eleven related cancers, many

(01:50:53):
of them first responders. That according to the World Trade
Center Health Program, the number has surged more than one
hundred four percent in the last five years, with toxins
from ground zero and fresh killed landfills being blamed for that.
The city of San Jose is being hailed as the
nation's safest major city. A report by financial tech company

(01:51:15):
smart Asset ranked San Jose the safest out of the
fifty largest US cities. They used statistics from the FBI's
twenty twenty three Uniform Crime Reporting Database and the twenty
twenty five county health rankings. They looked at violent crimes,
traffic fatalities per one hundred thousand residents, median income, and more.

(01:51:36):
San Jose has among the lowest rates in all categories,
with the third fewest violent crimes and the fifth fifth
fewest property crimes. Los Angeles ranking second, and Fort Worth,
Texas ranking third. As far as the major safe cities,
there is a new study and this is a weird story.

(01:51:56):
A new study says couples usually share mental health diagnoses.
The study for the journal Nature Human Behavior looked at
data from about fifteen million people and was done with
researchers from Denmark, Taiwan, and the United States. The researchers
used national registries to find out how many couples share

(01:52:17):
psychiatric diagnoses. The researchers found that when one partner was
diagnosed with any of the nine disorders studied, the other
was likely to be diagnosed with one as well, likely
the same diagnosis. The psychiatric and population experts behind the
study focused on nine mental health disorders anorexia nervosa, anxiety,

(01:52:38):
attention deficit, hyperactivity disorder, autism, bipolar depression, obsessive compulsives, schizophrenia,
and substance use disorder. So the substance use makes sense
to me, because if you're in the same house, maybe
you know you've got drugs going on. One person's doing
drugs and pressuring the other person too. What have you?

(01:52:59):
Maybe eating disorders because if you're in the same house,
maybe you're eating the same meals or not eating or
whatever it may be. But those other things like schizophrenia, autism,
that seems maybe a little more difficult to understand the
why behind that, but interesting. There is an Italian teenager

(01:53:21):
who was known as God's influencer, who is now the
first millennial Saint. Thousands of young people filled Saint Peter's
Square in the Vatican this morning to witness the ceremony
presided over by Pope Leo the fourteenth. They held up
pictures of Carlo Acutis. He died in twenty of two
thousand and six of leukemia. At age fifteen, he becomes

(01:53:43):
again the first millennial Saint. And this report is sponsored
by Coachella Valleycoffee dot Com. I am so fortunate to
have a cupful of the vanilla tea. The coffee though
beloved house especially you see here it is the Lion's

(01:54:05):
main coffee. It's called the Clarity Blend. My husband is
loving that coffee. They make tea that has mushrooms in
it as well. That's supposed to improve your mental outlook
and keep your mind sharp. That's the turmeric chi tea,
also very good. It's got a little spice to it.
It's delicious as iced tea or hot tea. So good.

(01:54:25):
I'm loving the vanilla tea. They have mango tea that's delicious.
Mark loves the Okato espresso. But the thing is on
the website Coachella Valleycoffee dot com. They have amazing tasting notes,
so you can see specifically what you're buying and what
fits your taste before you even click it into your cart.
Once you get to the cart, please enter our exclusive

(01:54:48):
Mark Thompson's Show discount code Mark T No space is there,
Marke Tea at checkout we'll get you ten percent off
of your order at Coachella Valleycoffee dot Com. And I
really believe once you try, you'll think what have I
been doing? What am I buying? And why am I
not buying this? It seems to last a long time
for me, and so it's even though the prices may

(01:55:10):
seem high, the quality is amazing and it lasts forever.
So Coachellavalleycoffee dot Com. Please check it out and see
what they have to offer. I'm Kim McAllister. This is
the Mark Thompson Show, The Mark Thompson Show.

Speaker 2 (01:55:35):
It's Mark Thompson.

Speaker 7 (01:55:42):
Hey, which one you use? Mark Thompson.

Speaker 3 (01:55:50):
There is one thing I haven't mentioned, Tony, and we
didn't get to it last week, but I really want
to make sure that we do. You know, last week
we talked about I don't know if you hear for this,
but after the whole RFK Junior debacle, we talked about
the West coast states making our own health alliance, so Washington, Oregon,

(01:56:11):
California working together as a health alliance. But what we
hadn't mentioned is that Massachusetts is becoming the first state
to impose its own vaccine coverage rules. They are requiring
health insurers to operate in the state of Massachusetts to
cover vaccines recommended by the state's Department of Public Health.

(01:56:32):
They're the first state to mandate insurance coverage of vaccines
even if the federal government stops requiring it, so Massachusetts
becoming the first state to go solo on this. Yeah,
the first state to impose their own vaccine coverage rules.
The health insurance in operating in Massachusetts must cover vaccines

(01:56:55):
recommended by the CDC at no extra cost of patients,
even though RFK Junior is indicated he wants to roll
back some federal vaccine recommendations. This is supported this directive
by the Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts Massachusetts Association
of Health Plans. The National Health Insurance trade group says

(01:57:15):
their members will be continuing to cover vaccines for this
year's respiratory season. So good news for people in Massachusetts.
You wonder why every state doesn't do that. You know,
you have the state of Florida who's trying to now
drop childhood vaccinations for kids going into school, the requirements
for them, and then you have a state like Massachusetts

(01:57:37):
who is like, you know what, no, we're going to
protect our citizens. I hope more states will look at
what Massachusetts is doing and say, you know what, that
makes a lot of sense. Here. We have some people
to think, and that includes Richard Delamator, who threw in
a couple bucks today. Is that coat would look great
with the tied I oh, he's talking about Marx Cote
from earlier. Yeah, Jim Slayton. Maybe the people can get

(01:57:59):
a QR code tattoo to aid in proof of citizenship.
They can scan or has this been done before? Yeah,
that's been done before. And it seems I get your reference.
It seems like that's where we're going back to, isn't it.
Everyone carry your papers here we go. Wes throwing down five,
kind of like in World War Two when the German

(01:58:19):
officers would search out people in schools, churches, workplaces, and
finally private homes, telling you this is not a place
the United States should go. And I don't know how
we get out of this. I don't know how we
get out of it. Uncle Scrooge with five. We need
to start calling these tactics what they are, Nazi tactics,
says Uncle Scrooge. Luis with five. Welcome back and thank

(01:58:42):
you oasis for two spectacular sold out shows at the
Rose Bowl this weekend. Thank you for being an oasis
from TT and as BS. I'm glad you had fun
at the concert. I was looking over the weekend Tony
at someone who had posted concert footage from the Sphere
in Las Vegas where the Eagles were performing. Oh, the

(01:59:07):
pictures are incredible.

Speaker 6 (01:59:09):
It looks intense in there.

Speaker 3 (01:59:10):
It really does look intense in there. I mean, what
an experience. Yeah, so yeah, pretty cool. Well we have
made it. We have the after party live next. I
hope you'll join for that show and totally non political, totally.

Speaker 2 (01:59:22):
Different shows than this one.

Speaker 3 (01:59:24):
Mark will be back tomorrow and I thank you for
joining us. Thanks Tony for all the pictures and great
work today. I appreciate you.

Speaker 6 (01:59:31):
I wasn't great today, but it was good enough. And
I will lead to the after party in chat right now.

Speaker 3 (01:59:37):
Burris, thank you so much. Thanks everyone for joining us,
and thank you everyone for contributing to the show. Please
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SCOTUS Unleashes LA Raids — Plus, Jamie Mustard’s harrowing escape from Scientology 9/8/25

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}SCOTUS Unleashes LA Raids — Plus, Jamie Mustard’s harrowing escape from Scientology 9/8/25