War to the Knife? Former Trump Adviser Steve Bannon Throws Around Pre-Civil War Terms 6/18/24

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, it is the Mark ThompsonShow. And of course Mark is traveling
today back to Washington, d C. To be with family. But I'm
here with Tony, who's got themusic. He's got no, No,
it's funny the things that Mark usuallydoes, and we don't think about.
There it is, I literally andthere it did. It is what it
is. So we had David K. Johnston, but he is traveling today

(00:24):
and a few minutes ago he saidhe was not going to be able to
make it work. So John willI will say that Jefferson Graham will be
here today. We'll talk tech,we'll talk the latest things with Apple,
and Mark has left us a reallygreat interview with a man named Eric Auday.
He was held captive in Pakistan forthree years. His story is the

(00:45):
basis for a book and a movie, and he was on the TV show
Locked Up. A broad story wasfeatured. Yeah, the story was featured.
It's a really interesting interview. Sothat will will be aired in the
second hour. So it'll give youa little Mark Thompson and a really interesting
story as well. But there's alot to talk about today before we get

(01:07):
into it. Could you please clickthe like button Like click like and subscribe
here on YouTube is what it's about. We really would appreciate that. You
can always email us at the MarkThompson's Show at gmail dot com. That's
also the email. If you're usingPayPal to help us support the show.
It is crowdfunded and we always appreciatehelping Mark make payroll. Trust me.

(01:29):
You can also find more information onthe Mark Thompsonshow dot com. That's the
website and you'll find all the informationand details there. Okay, let's jump
into it because Tony, well,first of all, I should ask you
are you feeling better? Because Iknow that still still not great. No,
it's no fun to be sick duringsummer. All right, it's summer.

(01:51):
It's summer. You got to getI have kids home right now,
summer vacation, and I lived outsideduring summer. It was go on.
Well, you know that you youcan't do that. When we used to
do that, we'd ride our bikesaround and you know, you'd know to
come home at a certain time atnight when the street lights came on.
But now it's different for me.Yeah, it's it's hard to send your

(02:13):
kids out without supervision because you don'tknow if people are going to say,
where's the parent. I don't know. I don't know. I think it
just like it just seems like justjust let them. It's regressive. That
just it feels like to be justlike, let's so if you had,
oh yeah, I'd be like Iwould be. I'd be the worst part.

(02:34):
Every would be complaining about me becausemy kids would. I would make
sure they were independent, they didn'tneed me at all. That's good.
It's important. I mean, it'simportant. We are losing something that we
used to have. Yeah, somegood friends, don't die, that's good.
Great, as you're going out thedoor, don't die. Set some
stuff on fire. It's cool.You were telling me before the show you

(02:57):
used to work during the summers whenyou're a little kid. Well, my
parents have their own business, andyou know, it was my parents are
immigrants and they just you know,that was just the way it was.
And you know, their own business. It was like it's summer, my
parents. My dad's like, it'ssummer. We leave at seven am.
What kind of business again, itwas a it was an electric motor repair.
So like like for like big cranesand think of electric motors, but

(03:21):
just giant DCAC you know, andthat kind of stuff and you know,
and yeah, yeah, and myjob was like kind of the janitor,
So it was kind of like gothrough the Basically the entire morning was clean
the whole place up and set allthe machines up for work in the day.
So we had like a giant lathemachine and I had to like prep
it, and you know, soI was using a giant lathe at like
twelve years old, and we hada baking of it and a burnout of

(03:45):
it, and a mill machine.I mean, I made my own RC
car on a meal machine. Ifyou know what a mill machine is,
I don't know what it is,Okay, think of like it's a drill
press. But the base moves sowhenever piece of metal you're cutting, you
can then angle it this way inthat way. It's stuff and you cut.
You can cut like that and cutout holes and stuff like that and
cut out shapes with it. Doyou consider that perhaps dangerous for a twelve

(04:08):
year old maybe it was thirteen.The scary stuff was like the acettleing torch
or the if you like, youknow, big big accetting torch. I
always hated that thing. I alwayslike would pops sometimes at off, but
we had like a hydraulic press,like a fifty ton hydraulic press to get
the bearings off the you know,off the armatures and stuff and wow,

(04:30):
just bang, bang bang and justcock. That is such a different summary.
The kids are having like they're they'reyou know, one of them's at
Drumline camp and one of them isin the other room thinking what game will
I play on the Nintendo Switch rightnow? Some new good ones just came
out today. They had a NintendoDirect today this so they just announced some
new games. Really yeah, ohokay, well you'll have to tell me

(04:54):
about that, any anything that thatI should be looking at to say,
the only one available to the onlyone today? I thought it look pretty
good. Was it was one forMetal Slug It looks medic called Metal Slug
Attack. Looked pretty cool, butlike the was it the released on Luigi's
Mansion? Looks cool? Oh?The Dragon Quest? Then you remake of
a Dragon Quest. That's gonna becool, but that's in November. You're

(05:15):
kind of like a giant child,like I love it. Yes, but
you're a kid. Stop, Yes, I am perfetually thirteen. I was.
I guess I was telling you beforethe show. It was an old
cartoon called Robotech back in the eighties. I just got my hands in the
blu ray and I watched well tenepisodes last night. Oh you're so funny
and realized I don't remember anything ofthat show went from when I was a

(05:35):
kid. Well, it's all freshand new to you now, So that's
okay. Starting over? Oh man, well, happy summer to everyone.
Let us jump into politics. Whydon't we? Because I saw this story
and I know you found video thisis crazy. Oh I missed it.
What did you What did you flashup? Oh? He wrote Metro Prime
four. Oh there you go,But I saw it. Only took ten

(05:59):
years to make it funny. Hey, you know what you guys. I
love that you're connecting in this way. This is awesome. So let's talk
about Steve Bannon for a moment.I know, talking about video games is
much more fun because Steve Bannon isa giant ew And I thought to myself,
you know it's easy to say justyou and brush him off, like,

(06:20):
you know, these crazies don't matter. We don't really need to think
about it because we can't take themseriously. Right, Well, the problem
is he's using this language that weprobably should be paying closer attention to.
And I hate to take the crazyseriously, but if I feel like if

(06:41):
we don't, we might have abigger problem on our hands. He's using
this civil war language, these phrasesthat were used in the run up to
the Civil War. And I don'tknow if it's possible to have a civil
war in America right now. Somewould argue we already are having one in
a social way, but the makeupof the country is different. You know,

(07:04):
states are more divided within themselves.So I don't know if it's possible.
But I was thinking about it lastnight. And here's one of the
phrases that Steve Bannon is using.He said, are we at war?
He asked a crowd, is thisa political war? To the knife?
And it's that phrase war to theknife that was used in a book,

(07:30):
Atchison's Squatter Sovereign, which according tothe Library of Congress is a pro slavery
newspaper of the era, and itwas used in the run up to the
Civil War. And I don't knowif that's where he got that term,
and if that's why he's using thatterm to kind of stir up a pot
and make people think that a civilwar is what we should have. But

(07:51):
Tony found some video of Steve Bannonand listen to the rhetoric. Listen to
what he's talking about. When youthink about people advocating for violence and advocating
for dissension and division in this country, it's not pretty. I mean,
this is an illegitimate regime of NeoMarxis, from the Justice Department to the

(08:15):
FBI, the Wall Street crowd.You can see this everywhere in our society.
The attacks and the family and theyplay for keeps. And I'm so
glad that in the Alice Joneses andthe Tucker Carlson's and particularly since you've had
the opportunity to leave Fox, ourselvesand so many others now understand that this
is a war to the knife,right, we have to win this.
So we don't win this, thiscountry is going to devolve into some kind

(08:37):
of Neo Marx's totalitarian regime, ofwhich it's pretty far down the road right
now. That's why I don't feargoing to prison, right, I know
it's going to take my voice off. The war is still going to go
on, and I keep saying it'snext man up. You can't lean on
Trump, you can't lean on Tucker, you can't lean on Bannon, you
can't lean on Alex Jones. Thisis a populis revolt. You have to

(09:00):
step up and do it yourself.You have to dive in more, you
have to do more media sharing,you know, become a force multiplier.
So I'm pretty happy with where theshow is right now, what the audience
is going to do with the teamthat we've got, But it's clearly the
planet smash mouth, and I justthink we have to wake up and the
Jim banks Is of the world,and the Jim Jordan's and the and the

(09:20):
speaker Johnson's. You have to understandwe're in a political war, in an
information war, and you've got tostart fighting like you're in a war.
We're in an information war. Hesays, his information is lies. It's
wrong, but that's what they know. They're going to push and they're going
to keep pushing out this information.They're going to keep stirring the pot.

(09:41):
You heard him use the term therewith Tucker Carlson War to the Knife.
He also was in front of acrowd at Turning Point and he said are
you prepared to leave it all onthe battlefield? Battlefield another war term in
twenty twenty four, it's very simple. He said victory or death. Well,
that seems like a call to violence. So he's advocating for a war,

(10:07):
he set an information war, buthe's using these terms, these civil
war terms. What does he wantfor America? And I think, as
President Biden said just yesterday, that'sreally the question in this next election is
what do you want for America?Do you want to divide in America where
people are ready to what is theterm war to the knife? Is that

(10:31):
what we want? Because I don'twant that. I want to find a
way to coexist, to have dissentingopinions, to have the America that we've
always had, even though we don'tagree, we somehow make it work together.
But you have a guy like this, like Steve Bannon and others who
are ready to break America, andI don't understand it. And they call

(10:56):
themselves patriots, and I just don'tget it. I don't get it at
all. And I wonder, andmaybe I'm getting way too deep here,
I wonder if it means this grandexperiment that was the American system of government
is fragile and at risk, andif it's almost over. We've survived things

(11:22):
more serious than Steve Bannon. We'vesurvived civil wars, we've survived awful presidents.
But this is scary. And soinstead of brushing it off and laughing
at him like he's a crazy oldlunatic, I think maybe we should pay
closer attention. So I wanted tostart the show off that way. I
know, thanks Kim for laying thatlead balloon in our lap, but this

(11:43):
will maybe, I don't know,brighten your spirits. Because speaking of Steve
Bannon, he is going to prison. He's not going to club fed,
so it's not going to be youknow, kick back, watch TV,
chill out kind of alone and meettime. He is apparently going to be
sent to a minimum security prison campwhere non violent offenders serve their time.

(12:09):
So that is what is happening toSteve Bannon. He has to turn himself
in July first to begin serving afour month sentence for contempt of Congress.
He was still appealing this case,but they said he can't stay out of
prison pending appeal, so he's gotto go. He is not eligible for

(12:31):
the lowest level prison setup because ofthis criminal case that he still has pending
against him in the state of NewYork. He's fighting the charges. He's
set to go to trial there inSeptember. He has been accused of defrauding
donors and a fundraising effort to buildthe wall, and we know that money
didn't go to build the wall.The money went allegedly right to Steve Bannon

(12:54):
and friends. So because that caseis still pending, he cannot stay out
a prison pending appeal, and hemust report to a minimum security prison camp
on July first. I don't ishwish ill on people, but I'm not
sorry that's happening to him. Sothere you go. This is huge,

(13:18):
huge, huge, huge, andit means so many more people may be
gaining citizenship. This is this informationabout President Biden. He is announcing sweeping
action shielding undocumented spouses of US citizensfrom deportation, which makes complete sense to
me. If you have legally marriedsomeone and you are a US citizen,

(13:43):
it seems that person should be ableto stay, and the President agrees.
He is going to announce that thisweek. The policy would apply to people
who've been living in the United Statesfor ten years. And would like to
use an existing legal authority no asparole in place that offers deportation protections instead.

(14:05):
So this is a big deal fora lot of people. He also
the President is holding an event markingthe anniversary of the Dream Act DACA,
and that is going to happen,I believe, tomorrow, so they'll talk
about the pathway work for visas forDACA recipients and ah, there's a lot

(14:28):
of people that can be will beaffected by that as well. So here
you have a country that keeps saying, whatever side of the immigration debate you're
on, we need to do something. We need to fix it. We
need to have a path the citizenshipfor people, or you know, we
need to close the border, weneed to whatever your opinion is. We
need changes to the way the immigrationsystem works. And here you have the

(14:52):
president making changes. Right. Weknow that he's limiting people coming in.
We know that he is now goingto allow the spouses of US citizens to
stay and not have this threat ofdeportations and have families torn apart. And
we know that the kids who werehere, many of them who didn't even

(15:13):
realize they weren't citizens, now havea better path to stay. So you
could say I would disagree with you. You could say he's been ineffectual.
But I say he's doing things.He's taking steps. I feel like I
don't know what the right steps areas far as immigration is concerned. It

(15:39):
looks like this big tangle, thatmess. I'm happy to see he's doing
something to straighten it out. Sothe Washington Post is not doing so well.
They have new leaders at the WashingtonPost that came from the UK,

(16:00):
and there was some real ethical questionsabout the way they did journalism in the
UK. They it's very different thanthe way it operates in the United States.
Yeah, thanks Tony for the picture. There's some stories that were released
over the weekend by The New YorkTimes, NPR and The Washington Post talking

(16:22):
about the Washington Post publisher Will Lewisand Robert Winnett, who's the new editor,
and what they did as far aspublications in London twenty years ago and
the way they operated, the waythey represented themselves. Not pretty. One

(16:45):
of them a phone hacking scandal.You may remember that happened when Lewis was
brought in by Rupert Murdoch owned newspapers. So he was brought in to cooperate
with authorities after a scandal, buthe's accused of destroying evidence in this case,
he has denied it. So Idon't know. And here's the question,

(17:08):
if we know how underhanded, sneaky, kind of dirty it seems that
media in the UK has been.Is that who we want running a publication
like the Washington Post. I don'tknow. They seem to be willing to

(17:30):
dip down into the gutter to geta scoop in the UK, and I
don't know if that's the kind ofbehavior that we want to tolerate because mainstream
publications, and I know there's fringepeople that would disagree, but mainstream publications
have in my mind, ethics anda reputation to uphold that is very important.

(17:56):
And if they don't do that,then we have even fewer sources to
trust. And if we have fewersources to trust, then we become you
back to the Steve Bannon. It'san information war, and then it just
becomes who do you want to believe, not what is actually true. So

(18:18):
The New York Times reported that Lewisand Wnnette worked on stories in the two
thousands that appeared to be based onfraudulently obtained phone and business records. So
the allegations are that they're kind ofskeazy and I don't know Megusta on that.
No, the Supreme Court has apretty big election issue. President Biden

(18:45):
says that the Supreme Court is outof step, and he's warning this that
the whoever is president next will likelyget to choose probably two Supreme Court justices,
and depending on who that person is, it puts a lot more of
our rights at risk. So PresidentBiden is issuing this warning about the impact

(19:07):
of electing someone like Donald Trump andthe way that that would affect the future
makeup of the Supreme Court. Hesent this over the weekend at that big
fundraiser in Hollywood. There's a there'sJimmy Kimmel. He was on stage interviewing
the president. Do we have thedo we have the video? The other
one, one of the others drivesaround in a two hundred and sixty seven

(19:33):
thousand dollars gift on vacations, andI think we are all wondering what can
we do about this? Elect meagain, I'll tell you why. No,
I'm not gonna say the next presidentis likely to have two new Supreme
Court nominees two more, two morehe's already appointed to that had been very

(19:57):
negative in terms of the right ofindividuals. The idea that if he's re
elected, he's going to appoint twomore firing flags upside down is really I
really mean it there this be Couldthis be the scariest part of all of
it? Well, I think itis one of the scariest parts. Look,
the Supreme Court has never been asout of kilder as it is today.

(20:22):
I mean never. I talked constitutionallaw for nine years. This guy
knows more about it than most.Look, the fact of the matter is
that this has never been a courtthat's been this far out of step taking.
And by the way, when wesaid after the after the decision that
overruleed rov Wade, the Dobbs decision, you had Clarence Thomas talking about the

(20:47):
fact that there are going to beother things we should reconsider, including in
vitro fertilization, including contraception, includingall these things. And they're they're going
there, and they're going by theway, by the way, right,
but by the way, not onmy watch, not on my watch.

(21:10):
And that's why although for President Biden, because he's promising me that he's going
to protect my rights. The otherthing he said is, well, they
say we're not enthusiastic enough, thatwe're not feeling inspired enough, why bother?
And he said, hopefully we've learnedour lesson because these elections matter in
very concrete ways, and we're nowseeing how much it matters when it comes

(21:33):
to the Supreme Court. That's huge. So and by the way, I
mean, I thought he spoke verywell. There has good command of the
issues, and I didn't see anythingthat made me think he was too old
to be the president. So whetheror not you're concerned about that, I

(21:53):
think he's right. And it comesdown to a choice between who's going to
protect our right and who's going toprotect women's rights and gay rights, whatever
else, and who is going tostack the court with more conservative judges to
take those rights away. They say, you know, if someone shows you

(22:15):
who they are, believe them.Well, I already found out who Trump
was last time. This is ahuge thing. So we have no room
for apathy when we've got Bannon talkingabout war to the knife right. We've
got, according to President Biden,two Supreme Court seats on the line.
This is huge this is very important. We have Jefferson Graham coming up in

(22:41):
just a few moments to talk tech. But right now, how about we
do some news Tony the Mark Thompsons. There it is on the Mark Thompson
Show. I'm Kim McAllister. Thisreport sponsored by Tenuta Vineyards. Again President

(23:04):
Biden making a major announcement on immigrationtoday. The executive action will prevent about
a half million undocumented immigrants who aremarried to US citizens from being deported.
The so called parole in place couldalso provide them with a pathway to citizenship.
More dangerous drugs are off of thestreets of California. A massive bust

(23:26):
worth millions has led to twenty twopeople being charged, most of them from
Los Angeles County. Only fifteen arebehind bars, seven others are on the
run. The FBI says they weresmuggling drugs from Mexico, hiding them in
vegetable boxes, projectors, gas tanks, even in batteries. In all,

(23:47):
officials seized about thirteen thousand pounds ofmeth. Let's say it again, thirteen
thousand pounds of meth, more thanfifty pounds of fentanyl mixture, along with
kope and heroin and thirty five guns. If convicted, those suspects could face
at least twenty years in prison.God they got a lot of drugs off

(24:07):
the streets. Crews are making progresson California's biggest wildfire. This thing what
crazy. They now have it twentypercent contained as they also battle very strong
winds. The flames have spread tomore than fifteen thousand acres since last Saturday,
burning near I five in the LosAngeles County community of Gorman. Dozens

(24:30):
of homes still threatened. Power couldbe shut off to prevent further damage there.
The smoke is also affecting the airquality in Santa Clarita and Castaic as
well. But again, that postfire is now twenty percent contained, so
at least they're making some headway onit, which is good news. Oh
look at that so scary. AndI know you've probably seen footage of people

(24:53):
driving out through these roads. It'sfrightening where fire is burning on both sides
and looks like you're driving straight intohell. And look at those firefighters in
putting themselves in that knowingly so scary. I'm so grateful for all they're doing.
And there are fires up and downthe state right now. I'm so

(25:15):
grateful to people that are trying tomake a difference and put these things out
in Speaking of wildfires, the numberof wildfires across the state is now up
to eighteen. Eight of those startedjust yesterday. One of them the biggest,
the second biggest in California fifty twoone hundred acres. That's fifty two

(25:37):
hundred acres no containment in sight.Is burning in Calaveras County, east of
Stockton, near Angels Camp. Officialssay it's moving fast because of high winds,
forcing evacuations, causing power outages forabout seven thousand homes. There's a
highway and some roadways closed there aswell, so that's pretty scary. Guy,
look at that fire. Some newsabout Justin Timberlay uh oh. He's

(26:00):
due in court next month after beingarrested for driving while intoxicated allegedly on Long
Island, New York. Last night. The pop superstar was arraigned and released
without bail this morning. Timberlake's arrestcomes in the middle of his world tour,
with two shows scheduled in Chicago thisweekend. Doesn't want to be facing
a dui Pizza hut is shutting downseveral more restaurants. The company abruptly shuddering

(26:26):
fifteen locations due to an ongoing financialdispute with one of their biggest franchisees.
Reports say another one hundred twenty ninepizza huts owned by the franchise group EYM,
will close in Georgia, Illinois,South Carolina, and Wisconsin. As
a protest banner at California's most visitednational park, they're going to try to

(26:49):
bring it down tonight, but rockclimbers scaled Yosemite's famous El Capitan Wall yesterday
and hung it fifteen hundred feet offthe ground. They play and to leave
it up until sunset as part ofa twenty four hour demonstration. The banner
reads stop the Genocide. The groupsays they want to bring attention to all
the lives lost in Gaza since thewar in Israel began last fall. That

(27:12):
makes quite an impact statement to hangit up on El Capitan. The world's
largest steam Oh there it is.Yeah, look at that. Took a
lot to get it up there,that's for sure, and again it should
be coming down tonight. The world'slargest steam engine is headed to California.
Union Pacific's Big Boy number forty fourteenwill begin its first tour this summer June

(27:37):
thirtieth, passing through four other statesas well. They will do it while
it makes stops across the West beforearriving in Roseville July eleventh, so train
lovers in Placer County or visiting therewill get to see it on display for
two days. The locomotive is offeringwalkthrough exhibitions and special passenger trips as well,
So it should be a pretty fundeal, kind of a fun summer

(28:00):
thing to go do see the BigBoy train. Why not? Why not?
Indeed? It is? Oh,look at that, it's huge,
huge. Have you fun to gosee? Drive up to the Plasserville area,
take a walk through on the BigBoy. See there's summer trips I
can actually afford. I've seen somany people they're taking these trips to Europe

(28:22):
and doing these things. Us MACwill consider driving to Platserville to see the
Big Boy. You know how itis. It's another viewership record for a
game featuring basketball superstar Caitlin Clark.CBS Sports says Sunday's game between Clark's Indiana
Fever and fellow rookie sensation Angel Reese'sChicago Sky drew an average of two point

(28:45):
two five million viewers. It markedthe most watched WNBA game on any network
since two thousand and one. Thegame's viewership peaked at almost three million viewers.
Clark and Reese will meet again Sundaywith the game airing on ESPN.
And I love to see so manypeople turning out to watch women's sports.
That is incredible. I mean,think about how many years these women have

(29:11):
been the league has been going onthat women have been killing it, you
know, just beasts on the courtand finally getting some attention. This is
great. There is unfortunately bad newsfor night owls like me. A study
out of Stanford University shows going tobed late is bad for your mental health.

(29:34):
Researchers found going to bed by oneam can reduce the risk of developing
depression and anxiety, regardless of yourchronotype. That's your preferred sleeping time,
whether it's rising with the sun orgoing to bed late. They don't know
why that. They found people whoget up early and make the most out
of daylight hours seem to have thebest mental health. Researchers say, regardless

(29:56):
of when you go to bed,seven to nine hours of sl is optimum,
so we'll see. I don't know. I feel happy and I often
go to bed really late. Butokay, Stanford, whatever you got.
This report is sponsored by Tanuda Vineyardsand Father's Day at Tanuda Vineyards is going
to be amazing. The winery isopen July fourth through July seventh. At

(30:22):
Tanuda. They just released their twentytwenty estate Pean and Noir, which I
haven't tried yet. I'm sure it'sawesome. I love a good pino,
so I have to order some andcheck it out. How do you order?
Well, you can go to tannudawinerydot com perus all that they have
to offer, and they have alot to offer. They've got at least
seventeen reds fourteen whites to choose from. I love the Mark Thompson. Why

(30:47):
are you yelling red? Truly?I think it's really really good wine.
And I come from wine country,so I don't know if that has any
you know, extra ooh for you, But there you go. Maybe it
shouldn't have any extra that. Ireally love the wire you're yelling red.
So there's the website. Now.The website is different than the email address.
The website is tonudowinery dot com.Then you can email rich at Toanudavineyard

(31:11):
dot com, rich at to NudaVineyard dot com, tell him you'd like
to have this wine, that wine, this wine, and then tell them
smash it with your iron rod.Look how pretty the winery is there.
It doesn't look up a fun placeto go for Fourth of July weekend,
I think so. So you tellthem smash it with your iron rod,
you immediately get ten percent off,and if you order a case, it's

(31:33):
twenty percent off. To Now toVineyards in Livermore some good wine. So
check it out to noodowinery dot com. I'm kim McAllister. This is the
Mark Thompson Show, The Mark ThompsonShow. All right, well, let's
get to Jefferson. Is I seehim? I see him right there?
Yeah, no, thank you.I I was thinking you're going to play

(31:56):
a longer sweeper, but hey,you know what, I clicked them the
wrong one up, bringing anyone's attentionto it. How about that. We'll
move forward. We'll move forward.My friend Jefferson Graham, our beloved photographer,
has been on the road and hasbeen traveling around and now it's finally
back in the studio to talk tech. I bring him to you now,

(32:16):
former USA Today Tech columnists and friendof the Mark Thompson Show. It's Jefferson
Graham. Everyone. Hi, sevenweeks on the road. How was it?
Weeks? Can you believe it?Tell me some of the highlights.
There were so many. Somebody justasked me what was the highlight, and
it's just that they were all soamazing. Whether that was that would be

(32:37):
a whitewater rafting in Cody, Wyoming. E Bike riding and Zion National Park
one of the greatest experiences of alltime because can you imagine a national park
that has no cars and is opento us and we can just ride bikes
through and it's actually not pretty hillyeither, So that was amazing. Bike

(32:58):
riding in Park City was great.Taking pictures in Bozeman, Montana. Okay,
So every night at nine o'clock inBozeman, Montana, I'd go to
this place called Pete's Hill, whichis this wonderful hiking area and it's paved
and you watch a sunset and thesun would set it round nine thirty five,
and then at nine forty five Iwould jump in the car and drive
down to the market before I closeto ten because they have the huckleberry ice

(33:22):
cream sandwiches. Huckleberry ice cream sandwiches. Okay, I can see why you're
driving down to the store exactly,that's right. And then Saint George,
Utaha has some great ice cream conesthere. It's just so many great things,
and just seeing stuff out in theopen road that you just never see
in an airplane. Just the changingthe changing dynamics of a country and the

(33:45):
different looks to the different states,and meeting people and just a wonderful time.
It sounds amazing, and the picturesare incredible. I saw last night
that you posted dueling sunsets pictures andthey're on his Facebook page. Tony.
At't know if we can bring themup, but you were asking people which
sunset photo that people like the most, and I have to say it was

(34:07):
for me. It was the orangesky, the one that was deeper and
darker. That was the Teeton,that was the Grand Tetons. It was
actually funny because the guy said,I just did a newsletter post on it.
They'll be going out later today.Anybody who wants to know how I
got these pictures? So he said, craziest animal and best sunset. So
okay, I have to figure thatout. Yes, I shot a grizzly

(34:29):
bear in my in my pajamas inuh in Tody, Wyoming. And in
the sunsets that's the Teetons, that'sthe valley and that's that's what I was
just telling you about. Bosman,Montana. That's Pete's Hill and that's where
you know, you get a sunsetlike that and then a hulkleberry ice cream

(34:49):
sandwich. I mean, you can'tgo wrong. But if you're looking,
if you're comparing the two pictures,it's definitely the more vibrant with the mountains
in the background is gorgeous. Yeah, it's always interesting. That's in the
other side of Jackson Hall. That'sin Victor, Idaho, where our friend
Debbie reached out to me a viewerband she reached out to me said let's

(35:15):
get together. You got to comesee the other side of Jackson, and
it just happened we were going thereand we had a great time meeting up
there and look at you. Yeah, happiest down. So when I'm in
Jackson, the people in Victor,it's a bedroom community to Jackson, which

(35:35):
is probably I think the most expensivereal estate in the world, and they
drop. They commute in every morningforty five minutes. But the road collapsed
and just collapsed, and they're thinkingthe whole thing fell down and it's going
to take a while to fix.Yeah, they were working on a solution
when I was there that they saidit would be weeks, not months.

(35:57):
But right now it takes two hoursto get into Jackson. Now, if
you're scoopid ice cream cones, ifyou're welcoming people to a motel, if
you're doing any of the sort ofjobs that people do in the summer,
are you going to continue driving fivehours a day for that or you're just
gonna say forget it? You know? Well, I mean I guess it
depends on how badly you need themoney, right, Yeah, But but

(36:19):
I was on the other side ofthe Tetons. This is the other side
of the Tetons. Tony's showing theroad collapse right now. Yeah, it
just gone gone. Yeah, Andit's amazing what a little road can do
for a town. Yeah, youknow, incredible. The damage kind of
reminds me of the road washouts thatwe saw in Big sur Yeah, always

(36:40):
every year. And here's this andthis is what you say, the one
way in, one way out kindof yeah, without having to go really
far around. So yeah, well, I mean it's a basic long workaround
as if you were driving the bigsur and you got halfway and they said
turn back, and then now youhave to go back to pass the robles

(37:00):
basically and then go to the fiveand then go all the way around to
get the carmel. That's quite quiteautour to scoop ice cream for minimum wage,
right, that's right. Yeah,but but great ice s cream it
is. I'll just say in Victor, Idaho, just to keep on the
theme where I was staying, thehuffleberry milkshakes, the milkshakes are the greatest

(37:23):
milkshakes in the world. Wow,in the world. Huh. Yes,
you're fairly well traveled, so Ithink that comes with a bit of well,
the best huffleberry milkshakes because they onlyhave huffleberry in Idaho, Montana and
womin So you piqued my interest whenyou talked about shooting a bear. I
know you meant shooting it with yourcamera, right, yeah, yeah,

(37:45):
in the middle of the night inyour pajamas. What happened, Well,
that's a Marx Brothers jokes, butit's before your time, Okay. Yeah,
I shot an elephant in my pajamas. What he was doing in my
pajamas, I'll never know. Sorry, I got it. Yeah, Yes,
I photographed a bear. The episodewill come out this weekend, probably

(38:05):
Friday night. In Cody. Iteamed up with a local photographer who specializes
in wildlife, and one of thebig things is that you don't take pictures
on your phone. It's not goingto get you very far. The pictures
are going to be small, andyou don't want to get too close to
these animals. So I brought mybig camera, my Sony, which has
a six hundre millimeter lens. Gotan amazing picture of the bear alb in
the next edition of the newsletter,which will be out at five o'clock today

(38:30):
Jefferson Grahams on substock dot com pleasesubscribe and it will also have a lot
of great wildlife in the episode fromCody on the weekend. I've got an
owl and a fox and a bisonand this giant bear that I did with
the camera, and it's pretty coolstuff. Did you hear about the white
bison that was born in Yellowstone?Yes? I did. It's really funny

(38:52):
because they were saying, oh,you know, you got to go get
a picture of that white bison.It's down the road, and I said,
oh, I'll just try up andthe white bison will be waiting for
me. Yeah. No, didn'thappen. So you can see at the
bottom of the screen. Jefferson Grahamdot substack dot com. I'm subscribed to
the newsletter and I love it whenit comes out. And then Photo Walks
TV is the YouTube series. Youcan check out what he has done and

(39:15):
been up to on his travels there. But you're also here to talk.
Oh, look at that Park City. It's beautiful. River runs through it.
If you get if you get thereearly in the morning, you'll see
some really nice reflections. Nice,beautiful and very American. Yeah. Yeah,
they say that's the most photographed barnin all of Utah. Park City.

(39:38):
Yeah. I don't know why,but it's it's gorgeous. It's so
much so talk to me, Ohwhat's this? That's say a national park.
That's one of my time lapse videoswas I was lucky enough to have
a balcony at our hotel. Andif I get a balcony, you know,
what I'm going to do. Ohyeah, your time laps and that's
it. Yeah, that was likefour hours. Oh wow, it was

(39:59):
four hours in what three seconds?It's like crazy. Oh now we're at
night. Very cool. So talkto me about tech because Apple has got
some changes and some things. Okay. So Apple made a big announcement last
week about bringing AI tools to theiPhone and you say, oh, that's
great. Okay, so they're goingto summarize my email. Wonderful that i'm

(40:21):
and Siri is going to be smarterthan ever. And you say, oh,
okay, I'll be able to havea conversation with Siri. Sirie's not
going to say, oh thank you, here's what I found on the web,
go check it out. It's actuallygoing to talk to me. So
first of all, let's be veryskeptical about this. Siri has been out
for thirteen years, and if youuse it for more than just setting timers

(40:44):
and reminders and alarms, I'd besurprised because it's been very spotty for thirteen
years. Now all of a sudden, it's going to be better than ever.
But the big thing that I wantto let people know about is,
first of all, if you wantthe new AI features. They're only going
to work on two editions of thecurrent iPhone, which is the fifteen Pro
and the fifteen Promats, And theyreally want you to buy the next edition

(41:07):
iPhone, which will be out inSeptember, and I'm guessing AI won't be
available on all of them. Thatsaid, the AI features they announced,
they'll only be a handful in thefall when these new phones come out.
Most of them are going to comeout next year's This is more like just
an announcement about things we're working on, but it's going to take quite some

(41:28):
time to get there. Okay.I heard that Apple is also making some
changes when it comes to text featuresand the iOS eighteen upgrades. Yeah,
I mean there's a whole Basically,they do an iOS update every year,
which is fun because you can takeyour old iPhone and update it for nothing.

(41:49):
I mean, you get they addyou a lot of features. The
AI features will not be part ofit, but there's new features. The
text feature. Remind me, that'swhere you're going to be more more compatible
between androids than iPhones. Yes,that's one of the things. They also
said. You know when you dothat tap back thing where like if you
sent me a text, I couldpush on it and then I could click

(42:10):
the heart or the like the thumbsup button. Now apparently it's going to
be any emoji on your phone,so it won't be limited to those four.
The wide world of emojis opens upand kind of like, I do
this all the time because sometimes I'lleat, I set up an email for
the show late at night, andI don't want to email people in the
middle of the night if in casetheir notifications are turned on, and so

(42:32):
I schedule it to go out ateight am. Well, apparently now you'll
be able to schedule texts as well. Okay, r Yeah, I'm the
idea. So I could text youand say, you know, text Jefferson
Gramm at eight thirty in the morningand to let them know that I'd love
to have them on the show todayor whatever it might be. Yeah.
Yeah, because I had the sameproblem in Europe. Remember I'm in Europe

(42:53):
and I want to text people andthen I'm going to wake them up in
the middle of the night, andI didn't really want to do it.
Yeah, because when you go toEurope, if you have T Mobile,
you have unlimited texting. You don'thave unlimited calls, but you have unlimited
texting, so you you end uptexting more often than usual when you're in

(43:15):
another country. So yeah, that'scool. The other thing I want to
bring up is Adobe. Okay.Adobe makes Photoshop and light Room software that
most photographers like to use, andthey got sued yesterday by the Federal Trade
Commission for deceptive subscription practices. Okay, it's pretty bad. So basically,

(43:37):
you know, if you want tosubscribe to Photoshop and light Room, it's
it's twenty dollars a month, rightright, Okay, fine, I'll do
it, but it's actually two hundredand forty dollars a year because you can't
go month to month. It's twentydollars and if you unsubscribe thirty days later,
you get a fifty percent cancelation feeon the on the duration of your

(44:00):
contract. So it's now June,and I've committed to paying twenty dollars a
month, and I unsubscribe in July, I owe over one hundred dollars.
And the fine print is very fine, it's very very small, and it
does it says maybe subject to acancelation fee, and then you have to

(44:21):
dig around to find out what thecancelation fee is. And those of us
who who you know, we allhave gotten screwed over by subscriptions. We
all forget that we're subscribing. Weall subscribe to too many things. But
at least we know we can getout of them. Yeah, not in
this case. So big lawsuit forthem, huh yeah, which I don't
think they're gonna win because it's prettyawful what they're doing. It seems like

(44:43):
sometimes companies don't care. You know, you would think that a company would
be more about customer service and beingi don't know, straight with their customers
to build that customer base. Butlately it seems like all they want is
the money, Like that's they don'tcare about the building of the business and
the trustworthiness that keeps people coming back. But just it's a money grab.

(45:06):
Yeah, it's a money grab.It's a publicly traded company and so you
know, every quarter has to bebigger than the last quarter. But this
is a company that started off sellingBox software for hundreds of dollars. I
mean, you buy the new editionof Photoshop every year for six hundred dollars,
even though it had very few newtools. But you had to do
it, because that's that's you know, that was that was what you did

(45:29):
your work on. And most peoplewould steal the codes and they would rip
off versions, and so they wentto the subscription model, and they were
actually early. They were doing subscriptionsbefore other people were. And the description
is a lot more affordable, andthey are better about adding new features now.
But their whole legacy is people stealingthe boxes so and stealing the codes,

(45:52):
so you could understand where they're comingfrom. Yeah, James says,
I hate software subscriptions. Prefer theold days when I could buy a product
and update it when they improved itenough to earn my money. I do
you have a I know you've gota lot of subscriptions, and I know
sometimes you will subscribe to something likea streaming channel to get the free you

(46:13):
know, the thirty month free orthe thirty day free trial type of thing.
How do you do you have asystem for kind of monitoring your subscriptions?
Is there a way to you know, plug in everything you subscribe to
to kind of monitor it, becausethere, as you mentioned, things can
get away from you. Yeah,there are apps and ironically they'll charge you
a subscription money they will. Yeah, right, The best thing is just

(46:37):
to stay on top of it.TV is kind of easier. You turn
it on, you watch a channel. If there's a show you like,
when it's over, you unsubscribed.So I don't actually do it to get
the free subscription to the three thirtydays. I just do it to see
the show. So right now itwas Hacks on HBO Max or max what
they call it. Now it's overand I am unsubscribing, and I will

(47:00):
switch back to Netflix. There's ashow I want to see on Netflix,
and I'll keep it until I don'twant it anymore, and then I'll switch
to another. So I don't neverhave I know Mark has everything, right,
I don't have everything. I don'twant everything. I can't, you
know. I'll watch one show ata time and then just get rid of
stuff. Did you freeze? Idid freeze? Sorry. Sometimes it's been

(47:22):
happening to me lately, where allof a sudden it freezes and then like
it's less than two seconds and Icome right back. So I don't know
what's going on, but you're here, and that's the important I'm here and
that's the important part. Yeah,it happens to me too, where I'll
subscribe to something because there's something Iwant to watch and then I forget about
it. Then you got to goback and make sure that you don't,
you know, subscribe to fifty millionthings that you just don't need and you

(47:43):
don't want. So, yeah,my wife said to me last night,
Hey, do we get Apple TV? I said no, But when we
finish with Netflix and see the showwe want to see, we'll get Apple
TV for you and your show willbe right there. So I just try
not to have too many at onetime. What's the only one that you
always keep? Well, the AmazonPrime even though I never look at it
because of the shipping. Yeah,but that would be the only one.

(48:07):
There's nothing. I actually think Maxis pretty good, but after peruising through
there last night, I don't needit, and then if something comes on
I'll get it again. I feellike I might be the cheapest person in
the world, because I feel likeif I'm paying for Netflix and I'm paying
for Amazon, and I'm paying forDisney plus that when I search for a

(48:28):
movie and it pops up saying it'sthree ninety nine to rent this movie,
I'm like three ninety nine. I'mnot paying that for one movie. Yeah,
and I mean really it's not thatmuch, you know, especially if
it's something you were looking for andwant to watch. But the free I
know, it's not free to getthese services, but when you feel like
you're paying for the whole month andyou can watch, you know, whatever

(48:51):
you want in an unlimited fashion allof a sudden, paying three or four
dollars for a movie sounds kind oflike, you know a lot. Yeah,
you asked about the one service Icouldn't live without, and that would
be YouTube. I watched more YouTubeon television than anything else. I like
the little short clips. I likewatching the Jimmy Kimmel monologue at nine pm
instead of eleven thirty, you know, and they Google does an amazing job

(49:16):
of knowing exactly what I want tosee. So when I turn it on,
you don't need the old menu,You don't need to go up and
down. It has comedy and musicand photography stuff and things that I like.
So do you do the regular YouTubeor do you do the YouTube TV
service where it has all the cableshows. Nope, don't pay. Don't

(49:36):
pay for that because that's seventy fivedollars a month and I believe you have
if you have to be a cableTV fan. There's nothing I want to
see on cable TV. I'm notinto sports, and there's just no And
I got it when it was thirtyfive dollars, then it was forty five
dollars, then it was fifty dollars, then it was sixty dollars, and
I said enough, and now it'sseventy five. And you know, I

(50:00):
I don't need to see the RealHousewives, so I don't either. You
know. What I have been watchingthough, and it's funny because I must
have clicked on something and now theykeep serving it up to me is movie
bloopers. So they have the peopleput together these videos of blooper after blooper,
like you know, flubs and themovies and the outtakes and such.

(50:21):
And I can go down that therabbit hole and watch a bunch of them
and they're really funny. So that'smy YouTube experience as of late. Okay,
yeah, yeah, So you've gotthe YouTube show this weekend, the
Photo Walks TV Cody from Cody,Wyoming. Okay, and then you've got
the sub Stack newsletter coming out whentoday. Okay, yeah, I'm also

(50:44):
doing a live show on Thursday withsome other YouTubers who do travel show.
They're called Tourists to Local and we'regoing to talk about travel photography tips.
They're amazing. They have just comeback from Argentina in Mexico and Sicily,
so we have a lot to talkabout. Yeah, and I've got a
lot of great pictures to show aswell. That's gonna be really fun,

(51:05):
so you can see below. Youcan subscribe at Jefferson Graham dot substack dot
com to the newsletter and check himout at photo Walks TV here on YouTube.
Jefferson Graham, you are awesome.I just I want to tell you.
I know Mark's not here and likelywon't be here next week either,
and I so appreciate you taking thetime to come on even though he's not
here and and just to hang outwith me and everyone. So thank you

(51:27):
very much for that. Happy tobe here anytime. I love it.
Thank you all right, have agood rest of your day. Bye.
Thanks Jefferson Graham. Everybody, Ireally feel that it's kind of oh,
there it goes, there goes loveith the It's kind of emotional to it.
Just it makes me my heart swell. When we have guests that come

(51:47):
on and they know Mark's not here, that they want to give the good
information and you know, they comeon with me instead, and it's just
it's a really good feeling to knowthat we can still keep the show going
like that. All right, let'sdo a little bit of news and then
we're gonna have a very I'll sayit's a riveting interview with a man named

(52:07):
Eric Auday who spent three years lockedup in Pakistan. His story has been
featured in a TV movie possibly,I don't know, Tony, if it's
a was a movie in theaters,but on TV shows and books and so
Mark will sit down and talk withEric Auday and it's a pre recorded,

(52:28):
uh interview, But I think you'rereally gonna like it. But first the
news there. It is on theMark Thompson Show. I'm Kim McAllister and
this report is sponsored by Coachella Valleycoffeedot Com. Let's talk about the Biden

(52:49):
administration taking executive action now to granttemporary amnesty for illegal immigrant spouses of US
citizens. About five hundred thousand immigrantsbe affected by this. Is the so
called Parole in Place plan protects themfrom deportation. It also could provide a
pathway to citizenship. The Boston Celticscelebrating their historic eighteenth NBA championship with a

(53:15):
big parade on Friday. The Celticsplayers will board Boston's famous duck boats for
the Rolling Rally. The duck boatshave become a tradition for championship parades.
In Beantown, a team rolled toa one oh six to eighty eight win
over the Dallas Mavericks to take thatseries four games to one on Monday Night.
Americans pumping the brakes on spending thesedays. The Commerce Department says retail

(53:38):
sales rose just a tenth of apercent last month as inflation keeps shrinking pocketbooks.
Retail sales include spending on things likefood, cars, and gas,
as a small spending increase on musicalinstruments, sporting goods, and books as
well. Here in Sonoma County,it's got a big emergency underway. There's
a wildfire that's now about twelve hundredeight. Folks are working on putting the

(54:04):
fire out and there is help comingfrom the federal and the state level as
well. The fire started on Sundayon the south side of Lake Sonoma,
burning toward the town of Healsburg.It is now twenty percent contained. Four
hundred people have had to leave theirhomes. Several structures destroyed, including at
least two homes right now. Crewsare trying to protect other homes that are
near the fire line as well.So that's a big fire burning in Sonoma

(54:29):
County. As for that post fireoff of I five near Gorman, that
fire has blossomed to fifteen thousand acresand they're working on containment there as well.
In Oakland, a man is accusedof fire bombing a UC Berkeley police
car. Casey Goonan arrested yesterday inthe attack. Suspected of three arsons on

(54:50):
campus as well. The latest happenedon Sunday at the Dwinelle Annex construction site.
Groups Against the Middle East War andGAZA have reportedly claimed responsibility online for
all of these fires, admitting thatthey were retaliation for how other student protesters
have been treated there. Look atthat with the big burn marks on the
police vehicle and now an arrest madein this firebar bombing, and these arson

(55:15):
cases at UC Berkeley. So whenprotests spiral into violence like that, yikes,
The search is over for a hitand run suspect at a San Jose
side show. Police arrested a manaccused of injuring a spectator over the weekend.
Mayor Matt Mahon says the twenty fiveyear old threatened people's lives for a
joy ride and posted a reminder onsocial media that participating watching the dangerous stunts

(55:40):
that's all illegal. So police arestill looking for the mob caught on camera
attacking a police car as a reserveofficer headed to that crash scene. They've
got a big vote coming up inthe city of Richmond, California. They're
voting today on whether to add totax an oil refinery. If approved,
this measure will be put on theNovember ballot. Chevron is already the city's

(56:05):
biggest employer and taxpayer, but hasreceived several violations because of flaring that happens
out at the refinery. That's whyenvironmental groups are behind the push, saying
this would be one way to payfor all the health damage that's being caused.
Supporters say the new tax could bringin between sixty and ninety million dollars
a year, so that would bereally incredible for the City of Richmond.

(56:30):
If that was the case. Thisremember the Brady Bunch Home. I mean,
who doesn't immediately you picture it inyour mind, right, This southern
California home, made famous during theopening credits of the nineteen seventies TV show
The Brady Bunch, reportedly got brokeninto. Police cars were parked outside of
it in North Hollywood. The houserecently sold for three point two million dollars.

(56:54):
Officers were there, apparently investigating apossible burglary. The lapde phone calls
about a loud noise at that houseearly Tuesday morning. No confirmation at this
point on whether a burglary occurred orif anyone was at that house at the
time. There it is the BradyBunch House. Thanks Tony. Yeah,
it looks like someone may have brokeninto the Brady Bunch House. That's not

(57:15):
what we want to hear. Leavethe Brady Bunch House alone. Some things
are sacred. Only a small numberof employees in the United States require workers
take a minimum amount of vacation,yet burnout by employees still pretty high.
Only eight percent of employers require workersto take a minimum amount of vacation.

(57:37):
Jobs like pilots, air traffic controllers, trucking those jobs, and employers require
workers to take mandatory time off.You need your rest, right, you
need to be fresh for the job. A recent Harris poll found seventy eight
percent of Americans do not use themaximum amount of paid time off allowed.
The average worker took fifteen paid daysoff last year, despitely half being allowed

(58:00):
more than that. The burnout ratesare high. Forty five percent of Americans
claimed to feel burned out burned outat work. No federal law that says
employers need to provide paid time off, but there are some state and local
laws that do apply. So that'sinteresting, Tony. You're one of those.
You have a lot of time off, but you rarely take vacation.

(58:21):
So I don't think I've never takenyou had, well, you went to
I did April this year was thefirst time in Like that was the first
time. Like, I don't rememberany other time you've taken vac Yeah,
you can afford it, get moneyif you get paid time off, right,
No, it's so much work.It's more work to try to take

(58:44):
off time from work, you knowwhat I mean, and then pay for
the vacation. Yeah, I don't. No, this is not gonna happen.
I find myself wanting to take vacationbecause my kids are getting older.
And if I don't take these familyvacations, now you're goss it. I
don't get to yep. So yeah, but I hear you because time catches

(59:05):
up quick. I'll tell you thatif you have the time, don't let
the time go to waste. Right. Time's way more I port than than
money. I'll tell you that overand over again, as I never take
a day often exactly. This reportis sponsored by Coachella Valley Coffee. If
you're not taking the vacation, atleast enjoy the simple pleasures, right Coachella
Valley Coffee. We know Mark lovesthe coffee. I have my This is

(59:29):
my favorite tea I've tried. Iwant to say, not all the teas,
but a pretty good chunk of them, because the Roastmaster General Cliff sent
me a box of teas to sample, and I have discovered that my favorite
tea of all is the vanilla tea. I just love it so much I

(59:50):
now crave it. I must haveit. And so this is what has
happened to me. I've become aCoachella Valley Coffee freak. Go to Coachella
Valleycoffee dot co. If you findsomething that you're interested in and you get
to the checkout page, the code, the coupon code is mark T no
spaces all together m A RKT.You put in mark T Immediate ten percent

(01:00:14):
off just for being a Mark ThompsonShow listener. And I'm telling you if
you like teas, and check outthe tea bags they have as well.
They're I don't know if I wantto say organic, but they're made in
such a way that they don't haveplastic or metal and I really like them
as well. Looks like I spacedout there for a second. Our thanks
to Coachella Valley Coffee. I'm KimMcAllister and this is the Mark Thompson Show,

(01:00:43):
The Mark Thompson Show. I musttell you it is with great anticipation
that I bring you this next guest. Listen to this. The book is
called Three Years in Pakistan, TheEric Auday Story. This is a riveting
account of Eric Auday's tumultuous three yearjourney to the heart of Pakistan. This

(01:01:09):
is the overview of the book thathe's written. And I'm just giving you
the summary offered but it helps setthe scene and then we can follow up
with some specifics. Falsely accused ofdrug trafficking, A Day's Life takes an
unexpected turn as he finds himself thrustinto the unforgiving depths of a foreign prison

(01:01:29):
system, but the Pakistani prison system. I can't think of anything worse on
earth. I mean, well,we'll get to it in a second and
talk to him about it. Hetalks about the fact that in the book
he speaks of these insanely harsh realitieson death row, people he met,
inspiring moments, and he has tonavigate the complexities of this Pakistani legal system.

(01:01:53):
I'm curious as to whether he wasgiven representation or how the whole thing
worked. I mean, there's somuch here, but he's made it,
he's survived, and he's written thisbook and he joins us now Eric out
day, everybody, Hey there,Eric, Hey is Mark? Thank you
so much for having me. Ireally appreciate it. Oh. I'm excited

(01:02:15):
to get into the book. AndI'm also curious as to the origins of
all of this. So I getit. You end up in this Pakistani
prison. How did it happen thatyou end up there? It's not a
two minute story, but this happeneda long time ago. I was a
teenager when I started working for avery good friend of mine's leather courier company,

(01:02:39):
traveling around the world important expensive lettergoods, getting paid for it.
This is, you know, nineteenninety nine, two thousand and two thousand
and one, and then I wouldfind out the hard way that we were
all being used to unknowingly smuggle narcotics. The jobs were offered basically, travel
around the world, paid to importexpensive, expensive leather samples and imported as

(01:03:04):
your own clothing to beat the importtax. Because we were just you know,
we were just kids. We werehe was he was recruiting people who
were in their late teens, earlytwenties, and the whole spill basically was
that there's a fifty five percent importtax back into the US, whether I
mean, it's kind of true asfar as that that part, but it
was it was a smoke screen.It was to keep our attention focused thinking

(01:03:27):
that we're like doing something wrong bybeating the import tax and pretending the clothing
is our own, so that hecould save anywhere from fourteen to sixteen thousand,
we get a free trip. Weget eight hundred bucks spending money for
me. The trips along were paymentenough and was side right there were you
were you wearing clothes that you weresmuggling or were you carrying package? No?
No, no, no, itwasn't even a package. It was

(01:03:47):
like like you had a manifest andthen you would like rate everything. Everything
was professionally folded and clothed in ain a suitcase and you would go through
all make sure everything wasn't naged andthis is clothing now or or correct clothing.
But but we were told like therewere like you know, three thousand
dollars jackets for three thousand dollars skirts, you know, like the girls paid,

(01:04:10):
you know, fifty thousand dollars forhandbags. I don't I don't know
who, but it's worth something tosomeone else. It was a smoke screen.
By keeping our attention off of whatwe were really being used to do,
they didn't have to pay us whatwe were worth. Also, they
figured we wouldn't draw suspicion to ourselvesat the airports because we didn't know we
were being used to smuggle any narcotics. Like I mean, it's all,

(01:04:31):
it's all. I ended up showwhere were the narcotics showing it to the
end of the garments or what?No, no, no, the clothes
were I mean you took If Itook the clothes out and put it in
another suitcase, and maybe I probablywould, I would have got the ship
yelled at. I mean, butbut I would have really probably figured out
that this was too good to betrue. It was professionally hidden in the
walls of the suitcase. If youemptied the suitcase, it just felt like
an empty suitcase. But it wasso thin and it was built into the

(01:04:55):
walls of the suitcase, so theyhad to like rip it all out,
but couldn't couldn't they one of thosedrugs sniffing dog sniff it out right away
or you would think. Yeah.And on one of my trips, which
is actually in my book, Ialmost found out the truth when I was
on my first trip to Turkey.When I was coming back through Sweden,
a drug sniffing dog pulled me outof the crowd. But earlier on my

(01:05:17):
flight in Turkey there was cats messingaround my luggage, so I just chalked
it up to maybe it's snowing.The cat. Also, the drug sniffing
dog was pulling out random people leftand right, and they put me in
a room with like a whole bunchof other people who had been pulled out,
and so it was like it wasn'tIt wasn't as scary as you think
it would be. Like it was. They were just like asking me questions.
I was like, I was like, it's the leather. I'm here

(01:05:39):
for the leather. And they wentthrough everything, they found nothing, and
then sadly, by them doing that, it reconfirmed that I was like,
Hey, these are actually legit trips, because you know, in the back
of my head even on the firsttrip, I mean, I I believed
my friend, but deep down Iwas like, oh, you know,
maybe what if? What if?Because you think the worst case scenario.

(01:05:59):
But after that trip, I wastelling everyone about these jobs because I was
so sure they were legit and Iwanted to share this opportunity with everybody.
What was the moment at which youwere busted? I was busted? This
see my friend when I first startedworking from I as a teenager, but
I was working actor stuffman. Wehad met at a gym in Burbank.
I was his personal trainer and hewas always working out with me. So

(01:06:20):
when you work out with somebody acouple times a week, you get to
know them. You're not just talkingabout working out, You're talking about sports,
women, life, And you know, he was a successful Armenian businessman
that was hiring people at the gymto travel around the world from They were
all going to Turkey. Though theywere going to Turkey, they were coming
back through another country. He wantedme to go every month, but I

(01:06:43):
was busy. I was either doingjobs, or I had life, or
I was doing other things. ButI wanted to keep these opportunities open.
So I was offering these jobs toeveryone, all my friends, all my
family, my brother's, my mother. I thought this was an awesome opportunity.
I had never been outside the countrybefore until I met this man,
and it was just a kind ofa dream come true, kind of job
to get paid to go to anothercountry. Also, I was you know,

(01:07:04):
when I was very young, Inever thought someone could do something like
this to somebody else. And nowadaysI don't trust anyone hell all with both
ways on a one way street justbecause I think someone might be coming down
the wrong way. I just don'thave no faith in humanity anymore because of
what happened to me. But backin the day, I was goible.
I believe that that kind of thingwould only happen in movies and there's no
way on earth someone could be shamelessto do stuff like this. But I

(01:07:28):
was wrong. Strug smugglers are shameless, and if they can get you to
smuggle their narcotics for them and nottell you about it, they save a
lot of money. Again, andalso, you don't draw suspicions suspicion to
yourself. It didn't help that Iwas an actor, a stompman, so
everyone's like, oh, you're acting. You know, I'm not acting.
I'm not a good actor. Imean, I'm just I was the unlucky
one. I was very unlucky.I was the one who found out the

(01:07:49):
hard way what we were all beingused to do. But the thing,
the sad part about it is ifanyone was built for jail, it was
me. And that's the thing Iwas happiest about was that it was me
was happening too, and not oneof my countless friends or my family members
that I encouraged this job to.So if anyone was going to have to
go through this, I'm so gladand grateful that it was me because I

(01:08:11):
I want to get to the prisonsystem in a second. But you know,
I imagine this moment like in MidnightExpress, you know where he's I'm
sure you're a film by now,but what was your moment where they discovered
that there was that there were drugsand you were an unwitting mule. See,
well, Billy Hayes. I've talkedto Billy Hayes many times about what

(01:08:32):
happened to him, and he wasexpress, Yeah, he knew what he
was doing. I mean, sohe says, I mean, yeah,
it's such what he went through.But at the end of the day,
he's the reason why he went throughthat. Now, what happened was I
wasn't supposed to make this trip.My brother, my brother Peter, he
was at the time, he wasn'tdoing very well, so eight hundred bucks

(01:08:54):
was a lot of money to him. And this is back in two thousand
and one, right after nine eleven, by the way, so you know,
the world is changing quickly. LikeI thought the world loved us until
nine to eleven happened. And youknow, that's how naive I was,
That's how I didn't understand. Ididn't understand how hated we were because we
were sheltered in the US. That'sthat's well. I was. So my

(01:09:15):
brother says, I want to takea trip. I'd love to go to
Turkey. I can use it interredBucks. So I set him up with
my friend Ray. Now during thistime, I'm filming four different TV shows.
I'm redoccurring. I just worked overthe course of a year and a
half on the sport being King.I finished the planting as I'm a working
actor stuff. Man, I'm doinggreat. I just booked a pilot called
three sixty, I got a movielined up, I got a lot going

(01:09:35):
for me, a lot going forme, And then all of a sudden,
my friend called me and says,yeah, your brother's not going you
need to talk to him. Ialready set everything up. I'm gonna lose
a lot of money. And I'mthinking, like, what's why is my
brother doing this idea? It's makingme look like a jerk. So I
called my brother and I go,hey, hey, Peter, what's going
on? Man? And he's like, I'm not going. I'm like,
why did you can't I set everythingup? You're making me up like a

(01:09:57):
dim shit he's like, yeah,I'm not going. I'm like, you're
gonna be fine because it's not safeover there. Turkey is a great country.
You're gonna love you because it's nottoo Turkey. It's a Pakistan.
And this is the first t I'mhearing about it. The first I'm hearing
that it's a Pakistan was Sue mybrother Peter. And now I can't vouch
for Pakistan. I can vouch forTurkey because I got on there a couple
of times, but I don't knowwhat anything is. So I call it
Ray up and I'm like, hey, what is this crap about it being

(01:10:18):
in a Pakistan. He's like,look, because of what's going on in
the Middle East right now, I'mgetting a really good deal on other goods
over there. I'm like, good, well, then if that's the case,
you could fed exit back. Youdon't need anyone going over there to
get it. He's like Eric,and he was a really good car sales
I mean, that's the thing aboutRays. He was so like guys were
scammers, so they're they're good thathe worked it well. I guess he

(01:10:38):
did it. And he's also takethe trip to Pakistan instead of your brother.
I went in place with my brotherbecause I got guilt tripped. And
also when I say I'm gonna dosomething, I always do it. My
word means a lot to me,and I didn't want to. You know,
he made it. He made mefeel like I was letting him down.
I was really screwing him over.I mean I was there for five
days, and those five days wereawful. I got like, uh,
I drink some water at a ata little hole in the wall spot.

(01:11:01):
Pakistan is an unforgiving country. I'msorry. I mean, I I just
imagine that every place is a holein the wall spot in Pakistan. It
is. You know, I've beenall over the world and there's there's beauty
everywhere. But I'm gonna tell youright now, if if you want to
go to Pakistan, don't You're you'renot missing anything. You're you know,
you're gonna avoid a lot of headache. But there was like, oh,
there was no foreigners there. Therewas no English anywhere. If you want

(01:11:25):
to eat or something, you're you'replaying Russian Roulette with your with your your
health because everything's ridiculously spicy. Soyou're gonna want to drink some water and
if you don't drink it out ofa bottle, You're gonna pay for it
like I did. So I gotI literally got sick this for drinking something.
The first day I was there,everything was going this is this chip
sucked. From the very beginning,I was told by my boy Ray that

(01:11:46):
his friends were gonna show me around. We're gonna have a good time.
Uh. The second I landed inPakistan, his friends are like, Ray,
messed up. You were supposed tofly to Karachi, which is like
way south, you know, It'sit's completely different part of the country.
And so I'm like, so whatdoes that mean. Oh, We're just
going to put you at the hotel. You stay there, we'll come back
in five days. I'm like,oh, that's not why I'm doing these

(01:12:08):
trips and doing them to go aroundand explore and try new things and go
to museums, you know, sightsee, that's the whole point. And
so they dropped me off at ahotel, They're like, just stay here,
Like, well, I'm an idiot. Actually mean, I was still
a rookie when I came to travel. Even though I'd been to Turkey a
couple of times, I was stilla rookie when it came to traveling,
so I didn't think to change anyof my currency. So Ray had said

(01:12:32):
that they're going to give me money. So I'm like, Rice said,
you're gonna give me money. Sothey're like, oh really, and so
they gave me a thousand roupies andthey're like, that's like three hundred American
bucks. It was less than eighteendollars. All right, wow, well
you should have already this this thingis going sideways. So but you stay
there, you get the stuff thatyou were you know, the as per

(01:12:54):
usual, right everything shame you hadthe luggage. You went to the airport
and what happens. You check inwith your ticket and they go, wait
a minute, or when when isthe moment everyone got that far? I
was in Pakistan. On average,they're really tiny, like they're like five
four five six. I'm six one, so I'm towering everybody. And there

(01:13:15):
was this really long line for theinternational terminal and I get called to the
front of it. I'm thinking like, all right, it pays to be
an American. And all the attentionwas on me that day and here I'm
thinking like, man, if Icould just go back in time, I
would go back to the day beforeI left for Pakistan. Just drive ray
out to the middle of the desertand bury them in a hole of the

(01:13:36):
head. Again I pull a Son'sand anarchy. But at the airport,
they went through all my luggage,you know, and but they didn't like
they like took it all out andcheck. No, they went through all
my luggage and then and then oneguy packed it up and I was about
to walk through the metal detectors whensomeone else grabbed my arm and says,

(01:13:56):
are you smuggling narcotics? And Iwas like, check it again. This
time he took the luggage and justjust the luggage, not my bag.
I had my own bag, myown backpack. But they took the luge
with all the oather goods and theythrew the leather goods on the floor.
And now I'm pissed off because that'swhat I'm here for. So I took
all the other goods while they tookthat suitcase to another part of the airport.
I don't know. I don't knowwhere they took it. They took
me to a different room and leftme there. And I'm telling I'm just

(01:14:20):
worried that I'm gonna miss my flight. So I'm telling him, do whatever
you want with that suitcase. Bringme something else for all this stuff,
because that's what I'm here for.Guards started filling up outside, and I'm
just worried. I'm go miss myflight, you know, like, what
the hell is happening. The guywho grabbed me earlier comes back with another
guard bringing something with him, andhe goes, what is this? And

(01:14:41):
I go, he's holding it likehe's the one holding them. Maybe he
should tell you what it is,as I didn't know what what it was.
He goes, this is off film. That's how they say opium.
And literally two plus two be camefour very fast, and I was like,
why are you showing me this?He says, this came out of
your luggage. Now, when you'reon vacation, this thing you never want

(01:15:02):
to say when you're on vacation.I had to say. I said,
I need to speak with the Americanembassy. This guy tells me embassy can't
help you. We're gonna hang youafter five o'clock prayer. Now all bets
are off the table. I'm freakingout. Second he said that they said
that day I tried to escape,I was not trying to escape. I
was simply trying to find a phone. My whole goal was if I'm going

(01:15:23):
to die and I make my lifeworth something, So I wanted to call
my my manager, of all people, he always says, if you're in
trouble, Eric, you call mefirst. I wanted to call my manager
to warn others because I was notthe only one making these trips. There
was so many other people making thesetrips, so I wanted to warn them.
I wanted to warn my friends whowere going on these trips too.
That day I can They said,we're going to hang you at five o'clock.

(01:15:44):
Prayer after five o'clock after, we'regonna hang Wow. Okay, so
it's it was chaos. I wentrunning down a hallway. Someone shot up
the whole hallway with a bunch ofother people and everyone hit the ground.
I barricaded myself down in an offthat had like a waiting room and then
another office, and I hung inthere but there was no windows, and
I did find if I did finda phone, that was my goal,

(01:16:08):
but I couldn't get out because Ididn't understand the country. But they couldn't
get in the room because I barricadedthe door. Eventually I heard like they
were like, you're surrounded, comeout with their hands up and I'm like,
you can't come in. I wantto speak to somebody with the embassy.
I was. I was a twentyone year old, twenty five pounds
gym rat it sure you found like, hey, I'm going to stay here

(01:16:30):
until I get to speak with Soyeah, I was, these guys are
going to try to kill me.So I'm I'm panicking and I barricaded a
desk, all the the the I'mblinking, the filing cabinets, all the
all the furniture was at some pointthey breached all of that or you have
to No, they never got in, but someone from the embassy came and

(01:16:55):
well, someone I thought was fromthe embassy, but it wasn't. It
was the DEA, and they said, you want to speak with with an
American. I was from the embassy. Yes, I was an idiot,
and they're like, DEA, andso I was asking them stop bottom.
I don't like to give it allaway because it's all in the book,
but giving me the cracker jack version. So the DA came there to see
what was going on basically, butin their eyes. I was guilty because

(01:17:17):
DEA is not there to to decideif you're innocent. Their jobs to try
to get the bigger fish. Theyassumed that I'm just a piece of ship
drug smuggler and they want to getall the bigger fish and all the people
that I'm apparently working for. Sothey didn't give a crap about me,
and they were belittling me. Theywere changing their their you know, their
questions as I'm halfway through an answer, trying to catch me in a lie.

(01:17:40):
And this is all They're at theairport. This is all at the
airport. It was in a differentroom though, Like first they got me
out of the room and then theybrought me to a different part of the
room. Someone's like it was like, I don't know, some superintendent's office.
Well three of them were in.There was one and then one Pakistani
dude whose office it was, andthen every all the guards were outside.
I gave them all the information Ihad, and eventually I realized they just

(01:18:00):
think I'm a liar. They're notlistening to anything. So finally I was
like, look, give me somebenefit of the doubt. Other people are
making these trips. They don't knowat least warn them I'm screwed. And
it was one of the guards whoare not the guards, one of the
DEA guys. He told me,he goes, why did you do why
did you try to escape? I'mlike, I didn't try to escape.
They said they're going to hang me, man And at this point I still
fought they were going to hang me. And then he goes, they were

(01:18:21):
kidding, like why would you kidabout that? I don't understand, Like,
I wish I'm on your side onthat one. So they haul you
out to a prison. You endup in a Pakistani at first, No,
not at first. First they broughtme to a first that got brought
to a lock up. They putme in like just a general lock up

(01:18:43):
at a police station. I guessit was airport police station where there was
a bunch of Pakistani men in thein the sale. Things went south fast
in there people. You know,someone asked me where I was from,
like an idiot, I'm like Americabecause there was just a cocky football players
stout man who you know. Everything I knew about prison I knew from
the show OZ which is out inthere in the time, and you know,

(01:19:03):
you have to be tough when yougo in the Otherwise everyone you're gonna
be someone's bitch, and that's notan option for me. Plus, I'm
like, no, I'm gonna beI'm only gonna be here a couple hours
because I'm innocent. They're gonna callmy mom. Yeah, the rest of
you guys, you're gonna be herea long time, but I'm out of
here. There's at no point.At that point, I was like,
there's no way I'm gonna be herethat longer to call my mom. They're
gonna get rest ray, he's gonnayou know, there's too many people making

(01:19:24):
these trips. There's too many peoplethat know. So at this point I'm
not I'm like, this sucks whatI'm going through, but I don't think
I'm gonna be there that long.These guys start trying to fight me,
like it's a room, like Ifeel like the Santa Claus in Grimlin's all
right, but but they're not.They're old men, they're small. The
other guards are like having a theythink it's a hoot because I'm just laying

(01:19:45):
these dudes out. But then theyfinally say okay, okay, and they
bring me to another cell. Andthey put me in a smaller cell that
has only two guys who aren't tryingto do anything. Two people from the
embassy comme, this girl named Christyand the Pakistani interpreter, a guy named
Avsol. They come to the Uto the the police station. First thing
she says is how are you doing. I was like great, And then
I said something stupid because I thoughtI was gonna be out of there soon.

(01:20:06):
I said, if I known thatyou're always speaking movie dialogue as your
problemaic, yeah, it really is, dude, Because I'm thinking at the
time that one day I said toher, I said, hey, if
I know, I was gonna meetsomeone whos pretty as you would have gotten
in trouble on television. Oh mygod. And she says, yeah,
he's from California. And she's like, how you doing. I'm like great.

(01:20:30):
She's like, no, really,how you doing? I'm awful.
I'm in jail. My flight tookoff, So how do I get out
of here? She says to me, Now, this is a Friday.
This is the day after Valentine's Day. Because that yeah, it's so this
is this is February fifteenth, twothousand and two. This is only a
couple of months after nine to eleven, So there's this is the worst time

(01:20:54):
that I can be there. I'mjust that's how dumb I am. Right,
She says, well, this iswhat's gonna happen. They're gonna present
you in front of a magistrate tomorrowand then they're gonna decide how long to
leave you in physical Remand like,what's physical remand she says, it's exactly
what it sounds like. In Pakistan. They figure that if they can't get

(01:21:14):
the truth out of you, theycan beat it out of you. I'm
like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you talking about?
She goes, That's how it's donehere in Pakistan. It's like,
okay, so what do you guysgoing to do to stop it like this?
There is nothing we can do.All we can do is make sure
that you're not being treated any differentlythan anyone else. Unfortunately, and while
she's saying this, they're beating thefeet of some dude over here who's screaming

(01:21:35):
his head off. They think that'show it's done there. So she says,
yeah, you're gonna be presented tomorrowin front of the courts for physical
and Moran remand and I go,when will I see you guys again.
They're like, we'll try to comeback on Tuesday. I'm like tuesday.
What. Like I'm over there behindthe bars and I'm laughing like this.
I'm like, this shit just keepsgetting better and better. Oh my god.

(01:21:56):
Then so all of a sudden,I tell her everything I can.
You don't have to talk to us. I'm like, no, I'm going
to talk to you. I giveher my mother's information. I'm like,
ray, that son of a bitch, the gym blahlahlah blah blah blah blah
blah, man my brother's trip,and like I catch her up and she's
like, okay, sure we'll seeAnd then then she tells me we'll try
to come back on Tuesday. Shecomes back that night because she called my
mother and she goes, yeah,your mom said almost word for word everything

(01:22:23):
you said. Her perception completely changedon me, Like, holy shit,
this guy, and she really understoodthat you were all well she was starting
she really doubted that I was adrug smuggler. Sure, So she came
back that night and she brought mea coke and a pizza, and I
thank god, she did that becauseI was not going to be fed for
the next three days. The nextday, I was presented in front of

(01:22:45):
a lower court magistrate. Now atthe time I didn't understand her do or
understand what was going on. Ididn't know what was going on. They
had chains on me. I waspresented through bizarre that had you know,
I want to say hundreds and hundredsof people, but there's way more.
It went back forever, and peoplewere asking me for money. While I'm
in Chance being paraded through the crowds. They're grabbing my legs and everything,

(01:23:05):
like, hey, can I getsome money? I'm in a chance and
you guys should be giving me stuff. Now they put me in front of
this court and I'm over there justlike okay, just let's see what happens.
Fuck it, let's go. AndI don't know what's happening because it's
between this prosecutor dude who's with theairport police talking to the judge. Now,

(01:23:26):
Christy and Ovzl were back here inthe court watching. They're just supposed
to be observing, and as they'reabout to lead me away, Christy actually
went and started speaking to the judge. But she was all in her due.
I had no idea what she wassaying and everything. She wasn't supposed
to be meddling, I guess orwhatnot. She's just supposed to be observing.
She got involved, and when theywere pulling me away, I was

(01:23:48):
like, so what was that about. She goes, they wanted to give
you ten days, I got youthree and I was like, I could
have lasted ten days. She says, you're welcome. I was like,
thank you. So she talked tome down from ten days to three days
for physical remand physical remand they killpeople over in Pakistan. I didn't notice
at that time, but people diedduring physical remand loten to you during the

(01:24:09):
three days. During three days,they uh the single you out because you're
an American. Did you feel asthough you were being given a harsher treatment
or easier Trau? No, no, no, no, no. This
is what they do in Pakistan.This is just a normal job and everything.
The guy who was who was incharge of interrogating me and having deciding
which stations to put me on,it's like a routine thing. It's just

(01:24:31):
clockwork. It's not improvised. It'sjust you go in there, you get
hung up, you get beat likea punching bag. They beat the bottom
of your feet. They ask youthe same questions. They drown you,
they ask the same questions. Theyelectrocute you, They ask you the same
questions always. The questions are likewhere you get these drugs? Who are
they, where are they from?Who else is working for them? Give
us their numbers, give us theiraddresses, And it doesn't matter what you

(01:24:54):
say. That's going to continue rightnow now in Pakistan, and I believe
here too, people in America willplead guilty or to a lesser crime or
to a lesser charge for something theydidn't do, because they're afraid that if
they fight it and they lose it, they're looking at felonies. You know.
That's why they're always cop and pleased. I think in America that happens

(01:25:14):
all the time. You know.Back in the day, I'd be like,
if you're in jail, you're probablya bad guy, you deserved it.
Not anymore now. I think themajority of people who are in jail
or in punishment probably just had abad lawyer or were too scared to fight
it. In Pakistan, especially,people will admit to everything to get them
to stop beating you. So yougot people who aren't involved in any way,
shape or form giving up names ofother people who aren't involved in any

(01:25:36):
way, shape or form because theywant the beatings to stop. So now
you've got a whole bunch of peoplewho are part of something that they had
nothing to do with, admitting they'repart of it and giving up more names
because they wanted the tortures to stop. So for three days they tortured me
for information I did not have.After three days of torture, in effect,
and you, I assume you givethem the same information you give and

(01:26:00):
everybody, since that was real information. That is the first yo, mom
et cetera. Right, the firsttwo days they they I gave him absolutely
all the information and it stayed consistent. On the third day, all they
wanted me to do was admit thedrugs or mine. That was their goal,
just to admit the drugs or mine. All this was stop biscuits,
teeth. I admitted nothing, absolutelynothing. And by the end of it

(01:26:23):
though, the guards were actually kindof like, uh, I don't know,
they they weren't as mean with me, you know, they were like
they felt kind of bad for me. And so because this is just their
job. You know. They weren'tgetting off on it, but that was
their job. And at the endof it, when it was all over,
the guards you're like, okay,let's go. And they weren't like
thrust for me or anything else.I noticed that, so I kind of

(01:26:44):
won them over with all the shipthat I took during those three were was
there any English by the way,or did they not speak at all?
Well, not the guards, theguy interpreted, the guy in there as
you're being tortured. No, therewas no interpreter. No, the guy
who was who was who was askingthe questions? He's spoke, he could
he could see English, but Ibut he couldn't understand it. And I
would figure that out because when Istart trying to talk to him, he

(01:27:06):
just like he never repeated what Isaid, and it would ask another English
question. Right. Yeah. Butbecause they just wanted to hear names,
numbers, addresses. Yes, thedrugs are mine. That's the only things
they wanted to hear. They didn'twant to hear how I worked at a
gym, how I was a stumpman, all this kind of thing.
They don't want to hear none ofthat. How you end up in this
prison system for so long. Sosomething in the three days, or something

(01:27:30):
in the preloaded way in which theytreat you, or just in the constellation
of events. So you had thebags, it's your stuff, You're going
to prison. Is that kind ofwhere we end up? Well? Yeah,
yeah, and that was that I'ma foreigner in Pakistan, doesn't Pakistan
has bell, but not bell likewe had a bell. You go,
you go home that day. InPakistan, you don't even get a chance
to get bell for years. Bythen you've already been punished. And if

(01:27:53):
you're a foreigner, you don't evenhave a chance to get bell whatsoever.
What's that? What did they sentenceyou to? Or when you go into
the prison system, how long areyou going to be serving? Do you
think? Or when I went tojail. When I went to jail,
I went to jail. After fivedays, I went I was I was

(01:28:15):
arrested on the fifteenth. I startedgetting tortured on the sixteenth, seventeenth,
eighteenth, So I went to jail. Sorry, I went to jail in
the nineteenth And in jail, that'swhen I I just that's when I learned
when my next prison or my nextcourt appearance would be and it was.
It was told it be in twoweeks. So but my first day in

(01:28:41):
jail, I went. I wentin swinging because, like I said,
I the only thing I ever knewabout prison was what I learned on OZ.
So there's there's a when you getintroduced to that prison in Pakistan,
there's these guys called number of dardswho are prisoners that do the guards dirty
work, and their rewards for doingthat is the new prisoners, the new
fish that coming to prison. They'llget to beat them, take like jackets,

(01:29:01):
shoes, watches, any kind ofmoney, anything of value. And
normally there's like anywhere from twelve tolike you know, fifteen, sixteen of
these guys, but about a dozenare coming in, so you'll have like
one guy for one guy, sometimestwo guys for one guy, and everyone's
like covering and everything out. SoI knew that I was going in fighting
because the guards were over here afterthey took all this stuff off me.

(01:29:21):
One guard was like, you know, I'm like, just open the fucking
gate, you know, because I'mthinking kickoff or whatever, and I'm thinking,
man, you better go in hardotherwise these guys are gonna make you
either, bitch. Good thing forme though, is Pakistani's are wearing dresses
and they got beards and sandals.I'm in, you know, boots and
my damn you know motorcycle jacket.And so I went right through these dudes

(01:29:43):
and so they couldn't surround me andstarted backpedaling the whole time using their beards
against them, throwing them on theground, body slamming. I'm just leaving
a trail of these dudes. Now, if I knew then what I knew
now, I would have gone ina lot nicer and made friends because you
you know, yeah, because youwent honey. Sure. But I'm scared
and everything, and I didn't wantthese guys to hurt me. Some little
guy who's a shocked tim a shockedhe's a prison worker. Then i'd shit

(01:30:06):
you. Now, he's like fourfoot ten. This guy like just coming
up like telling these assholes to knockit off. And I'm thinking, there's
no way this guy's gonna try tohurt me because he looks he looks like
an oompa Lumpuok. He grabs myarm, my arm to pull me to
show me where to go. Sothank god, he gets me away from
all these jerks who I've been fighting, and I go to the barracks,
the processing barrack. Now, thisis the biggest prison of all of Pakistan.

(01:30:29):
This is a prison built for onlyeighteen hundred prisoners, but there's six
thousand prisoners. There are hundreds comingand going every day. And it's prayer
hour by the time I'm there,so everyone's praying at the moth. I
see literally thousands of people just prayingon their mats. But they put me
in a processing barrick. I'm tired. I've been tortured for three days.
The bottom of my feet hurt.I just fought all these assholes at the
front of the gate, and Ijust want to sleep and try to process

(01:30:51):
what's happening. So he puts mein the processing bark, which normally people
come in their say there are acouple of days, three, four days,
five days till they decide where toput them in the prison. I'm
trying to sleep, I'm tired,but my mind won't shut down. And
finally I feel like a bunch ofpeople in my little bubble, and I
will open my eyes and sure enough, there's a whole bunch of people that
are looking at me because I'm thenew guy that's there, and you know,

(01:31:13):
they've never met an American before.Pretty much, they go what country
are you from? Now? Ilearned my lesson at the police walk up.
Now, I wasn't going to saythat again, so I said Pakistan
born and raised right down the roadand they're like, no, no,
you're in America. That was abad bluff, pal, I gotta say.
I'm like, I'm not American.And then they put me right on

(01:31:35):
the big I'm on the front pageof the newspaper they're holding up and there's
me posing with all these guys becauseI was an asshole thinking I'm going home
that night. It'll be a coolpicture and I'm like, ah shit.
So next thing I know, I'mfighting the whole fucking prison on the second
floor and I'm getting my ass handedto me because I'm tired. There's too
many of them. I threw adude off my back onto the floor beneath

(01:31:55):
me. There's these crowd surfing there. He's fine, but the guards see
what's happening, like we better getinto this. They start baton charging everyone,
especially me. I get drugged AKasoori kasooris like punishment sale. You
don't even see your hand in frontof your face. It's so dark.
And I ended up spending the firstfive days in that prison in Kasoori.
Only good thing about Kastoori, though, is that there's no one else there.

(01:32:18):
Bad thing about Kastori though, isthe only time you see sunlight is
when they bring you out for yourhourly beaten the bottom of your feet.
They got a foot fetish in Pakistan. You get fed once a day.
You got a little hole in thecorner where you go and you use the
restroom, and it's so small thecloset. It's like a cramped closet,
so you're like leaning up all bunchedup. You can't you can't lay out

(01:32:40):
completely. Oh my god. Yeah, I liked that's your first two weeks,
my first five days. I getit. But I'm saying that,
I'm just thinking about the first twoweeks in this place. I got you
had you had three days. Imean, I don't know, though I
can't do the arithmetic on one whatwas where? But before you were transferred
to three days getting tortured. Andthen my first five days in jail and

(01:33:04):
Kassori, they took me out ofThey took me out of the story to
go see that this. Like that, Christy came back to the prison and
that's when she told me that mymom was back home trying to get lawyers
from me. And because I'm thinkingI need a lawyer, We'll get ready
getting a lawyer in Pakistan. Man, it's I'll tell you right now,

(01:33:25):
if you if, if if youhave someone in trouble in Pakistan and you
know someone who's Pakistani here, don'task them for help. Don't because this
is what was happening to my mom. People who were Pakistani here weren't saying,
Oh, that sucks a terrible situation. I wish I could help.
They were saying, I know someone, We're gonna send them your way and
he's gonna fix everything, but he'sgonna need a lot of money. So

(01:33:50):
everyone was using it as a asan opportunity to to to bank off of
it. So my mom was givinghim money, what little money she had,
emptying micccounts, giving them money andthen they disappear and nothing was happening.
So she was trying to get melawyers. And like I said,
it's it's every two weeks to goto court in Pakistan. So here I'm

(01:34:11):
the embassy comes, it's it's it'sthe it's the twentieth, February twentieth,
and I'm over there like just jackedup, like, oh my god,
Okay, what's happening now? Likethey don't know what's going on in the
prison. And they tell me,well, you're gonna be coming back to
court in two weeks, and I'mlike, god, you were going back
to court? You were saying inanother two weeks and you have to figure

(01:34:35):
out some kind of strategy. Whowho is your advocate or do you just
are you led into court and changeand no one's your advocate? Oh I
went to court. I went tocourt every two weeks, sometimes every week,
sometimes a couple times a week.Like at first it start off every
two weeks and then it'd be likeevery week and every couple of days,
and everyone in court with all thesetrips, man nothing nothing because I didn't

(01:34:58):
have a have a lawyer, Soyou have no one and you're standing there
and they're speaking in a language youdon't understand, and then you walk out
and then somebody tells you what happenedor what Now? The embassy was coming
in and watching, and they werewatching, so Obsold the interpreter, after
everything was said and done, wouldcome over and try to like generalize what
happened. He didn't go like thisis exactly like. He was just like,

(01:35:20):
this is what happened, and hewas not helpful whatsoever. That guy's
another story. Christy was cool,but she was only there for four months.
Then she got transferred to another embassy. So then I would get all
these consolers who even before that happened, something bad happened. It was Patrick,
Saint Patrick's Day. When is SaintPatty's Day, It is early like

(01:35:41):
March. It is March thirteenth,right. The reason why it was Saint
Patt's Day, it's a big daysbecause it was the day after Saint Patty's
Day. It was a Sunday,and at the embassy, some jerk went
there and threw a bunch of grenadesat the embassy compound church and it killed
a bunch of people. But becauseit was a day after Saint Patti's Day,
the church wasn't as packed. Andthe reason I found this out is

(01:36:02):
because everyone was hungover from Saint Patty'sDay. So being hungover is what saved
a lot of people. I know, we're laughing, but a lot of
people died. And because a lotof people died, the embassy started to
get a little bit more under securitythat they weren't coming out as much,
and they were like so not peoplejust couldn't come see me anymore. The
ones that would come see me,though, were under police escort armed.
They would drive like one hundred andtwenty miles an hour to get to and

(01:36:24):
from the prison, and the consulorsgot meaner and meaner and meaner because all
they were being told is like,yeah, you got a drug smuggler,
and sure you're now hand me downfrom the people who originally knew your story,
yeah, correct. And it wasonly the people that were like,
I want to get out of thecompound. I guess I'll go, And
I would get I would get somepeople who were nice, but then I
get some people who were just like, maybe you'll pack a little lighter next

(01:36:45):
time. You know. Everyone thoughtthat I was just some idiot drug smuggler
who deserved to be in the situationI was. Here's a sad thing.
It was about six months after I'min jail, and by this oh,
by the way, I here's abig thing. I missed it, or
because everyone in the prison kept tryingto kill me. Some dipshit put a
five thousand rupee balley on my head, so I cann't be in general population.
Everyone was trying to kill me.Everyone's trying to stab me. I

(01:37:08):
was and fights NonStop. They decided, the superintendent at the time, decided,
well, I know where you canput them. He's gonna be hung
anyways, Let's keep him on deathrow. Death row is the most isolated,
most secure part of the person.So they put me in death row.
So for my first nine and ahalf months in this jail, I'm
actually on death row with people who'vebeen convicted of death row. And I'm

(01:37:29):
there. I was safe, butit's still like mind blogging, mind boggling.
I'm on death row and I wouldwatch the gallows all the time,
and so I was watching people gethung and pleading for the lives and executed.
Oh my god, Oh my god. So but Eric, I do
have to kind of wrap up,and I'm utterly I believe I could talk
about this all night with you.I mean, it's fascinating and I'm sure

(01:37:53):
that everybody's fascinated and we'll pick upyour book, and we'll have a link
to your book on this video andon the main site. That is to
say, on our main show,there'll be linked. So they'll be several
ways people can pick up the bookand read about it. I mean,
I really want to get into it. But ultimately you're so you're there on
death row, and you're there ondeath row for how long are you at
that same prison for the entire timeyou're in Pakistan? Yes, I was

(01:38:15):
there. I was at the prisonin Pakistan for two years, ten months,
fifteen days, nine and a halfmonths of it on death row.
I spent one hundred and thirty twodays in Kasori, which is where they
beat the bottom of my feet.Tell me that lawyer who ultimately becomes their
lawyer ultimately becomes your lawyer. Hebecomes your advocate in court. Did the
court accept the fact that you werewrongly accused or wrongly accused? Oh?

(01:38:36):
No, they believe one hundred notthis lower court, lower court just wanted
money for my acquittal. If you'reguilty, you want to go to jail
in Pakistan because if you're guilty,you can pay the judge some money.
You can pay the prosecutors off somemoney. You can pay the cops off
some money to make it look likethat you didn't have five kg of heroin.
You only had a couple hundred grams, so to go away. So

(01:38:57):
if you're guilty, you want togo to jail in Pakistan, you pay
off the right people, You onlyserve a small amount of time, and
you go home. And I wouldsee countless foreign drug smugglers come back to
jail multiple times. One dude cameback to jail three different times while I
was there becoming the og. I'mthinking, like, if you're innocent,
you're screwed now. Because I wasinnocent and I'm an American, and the

(01:39:17):
newspapers were saying that I was thisHollywood actor and that I was the hero
of the Mummies because I worked onthe Scorpion King as a stuntman. Only
they thought I was Brendan Fraser.So they thought I was a multimillionaire.
So these idiots thought I was BrendanFraser with all this money, and so
I had lawyers who were coming upas he laughing, I'm laughing too,
trust me, but this shit,I mean, man, the way you

(01:39:38):
tell them, I'm sure at thetime. It was a desperate thing,
but man, you tell it,it's funny. Well, when I was
living it, I literally was likelaughing at myself every day because that's just
like I'm like, my god,this is unbelievable. I have to laugh
at this. This is my lifeand it's being I would have lawyers coming
up to me asking for four milliondollars. Now, this is a four
hundred dollars case for anyone else onedollar at the time with sixty rupees roughly,

(01:40:01):
so that's twenty four thousand rupees.I'm literally looking at these little drunk,
hungover lawyers and I'm like, youmean rupees? Four million rupees is
ridiculous. It's supposed to be twentyfourth. He'd be looking at me like,
this is a death sentence case,my friend, dollars. I'm like,
you take check. Oh my god, that's really wild. That's really
wild. I don't so. Butso in the end, you're here talking

(01:40:27):
to us now because you were acceptedto be but never you're saying the courts
never accepted you as wrongly accused.How did you know? The High courts
believe that was innocent? Absolutely,But there are exact words where we can't
say we kept an American in jailfor three years. It makes us look
bad. So they gave me timeserved, which I was like, I'll
do it because I never ever admittedto it, because I wasn't guilty and

(01:40:49):
I refuse to plead guilty for acrimeaty and commit. Although eleven and a
half months when I had been injail, the judge had gone down on
his deal. He wanted one hundredtwenty five thousand from my acquittal. Then
he wanted like less and less andless, and because that's why they made
me go to court so many times. Finally he's like, fine, I'll
take the thousand dollars, which isa lot of money still, but for
them that's you know, that's lifechanging money. Which was the sixty thousand

(01:41:13):
rupees. And here was the deal. The Embassy's like, congratulations, Eric,
you're going home soon. I'm like, all right, great. They're
like, but you gotta plead guilty, and I was like, why would
I plead guilty for a crime anddidn't commit and that It was like at
the time, I was a dilemma. I was like, this is not
right. I don't want to plagueguilty these guys have already taken everything away
from me. I was tortured forshit I didn't do. I didn't do
this. I don't want to pleadguilty. And it was it was the

(01:41:33):
uh, it was the end ofthe One of the was a mean lady
from the embassy. She goes,Eric, what do you care? It's
Pakistan, Just go home. Andthen it was the interpreter who made my
decision for me. He says tome. I was all, He goes,
Eric, what's worth more to you? Your pride or your freedom?
And I remember looking down at himand I was like, you little bastard,

(01:41:54):
because my decision was made right thenand there. Sure, and I
refused to plead guilt for a crimeI didn't commit. Full well known that
I was looking at death or life. So the judge and like the judge
sent me away and they brought meback because they wanted me to plead guilty
just so he can make money.That's the only thing he cared about with
money. It's the only thing hecared about. But he was like blown
away that I refused to plead guiltywith this. The deal was he was

(01:42:17):
going to give me two years andmeet with the time I'd served there and
you know, good behavior and specialremissions and paying off the right people,
I probably would have only been injail another four months. And I still
refused to plead guilty because I didn'tdo this. So when I refused to
plead guilty, I was like,all right, in my head, high
Court. Eric was focused on HighCourt. I was expecting this asshole to

(01:42:38):
give me death or life. Hegave me seven years, and I was
relieved, totally crap. I wasexpecting the book to be thrown at me
right with the kitchen sink. Gaveme seven years, which was still ridiculously
harsh because all these other people werebeing arrested with like tons of kg's and
getting and getting five years, threeyears because they're you know, they're playing
the game, playing the game,and they're admitting to it. They're admitting

(01:43:00):
to it, they're paying the rightpeople off. Now that's the problem is
if you're innocent and you've got integrity, you're screwing. And that's the thing
that happened to me is I refuseto plead guilty for crowdy and commit If
I was guilty, I would haveadmitted it, and I would never even
apologize to it, like, look, all right, some bad shit happened
to me. I deserved it,But I didn't deserve this at all,
and I don't care like I wouldn'tcare. You never admitted to it in

(01:43:20):
the end because because there was nothingto admit to now, and ultimately they
you left Pakistan three years after thiswhole ordeal began. Yeah, And the
rest of the details are in thebook, and I can't wait to get
into it. Three years in Pakistan, I can't imagine it under the best

(01:43:42):
of circumstances. And here you arein a prison. I just keep coming
back to Midnight Express. That's theonly exposure too. That was a Turkish
prison in Midnight Express. I amgoing to differentiate the differences between me and
Billy Hayes. Now Billy Hayes buddyof mine, but he knows that what
he did he deserved it. Andalso when you see the movie Midnight Express,

(01:44:04):
it's like sad and drawn out andit's just repetitive. I'll tell you
right now, I had in asinker swim situation. I was jet skiing.
The first year sucked in prison,but once I figured out how things
worked, once I learned the language. Once people started seeing me as a
human being and the guards everyone startedworking for me. I became like Red
from Shawshank Redemption. If you neededsomething, you came to me. I

(01:44:27):
was running poker games in jail.I was organizing soccer matches against the guards.
I hadn't. I had a goodtime in jail. By the time
I was it was like the firstyear sucked, but the second two years
I was like living on a collegedorm. Did so When did the beating
and tortures stop? The beatings stoppedafter I had I took a really big,

(01:44:49):
nasty fight with one of the worstguards in the prison, this guy
nicknamed gold Leaf. Gold Leaf isan expensive cigarette Brandon, Pakistan, and
this guard normal pack of cigarettes islike six seven rupees, but gold Leaf
cigarettes for forty rupees. That's aridiculous amount of money. An average guardb
would make six like a hundred,like one hundred rupees a day. That's

(01:45:11):
less than two dollars a day.Now forty percent of their pay for a
pack of cigarettes is ridiculous. Thisdude was nicknamed gold Leaf because he would
have prisoners beat until they either agreedto buy them gold leaf cigarettes or were
forced to. But he had alsosince he that Prisondent opened, He'd been
there since the beginning, notoriously hadhundreds of prisoners beat to death who either
couldn't afford to or just refuse to. This guy came to me on a

(01:45:34):
day I had really bad earaches andhe was talking shit. I was understanding
him pretty damn good by this point, because I was always learning the language
with flash cards. My goal everyday was to learn, you know,
twenty to forty words every day,so my vocabulary was great. I could
understand these jerks. They didn't knowthat, though, and then this guy
starts talking trash to me. Igot these really bad earraches. I'm just

(01:45:56):
working out, and finally I hadenough. And this is right around the
time We're about to go to warwith Iraq, so we got war drums
going over there. All the Muslimsthere hate me. Why is America doing
this? Why is Bush hate themMuslims? I'm I don't know. I
don't know Bush personally, so youcan't really ask me, but they wanted
questions. You know. This guystarts talking smack. Then he tells me
give me five hundred roopiees and inhis own language, I go, you

(01:46:17):
know, we may all be dogs, but you're a little bitch, and
the words like, you know,I should just give him the money.
This dude comes into the sale,and this guy's like a buck fifteen,
soaking wet. He's a little oldman, looks like he's probably in his
fifties, but he looks like he'sin his seventies. Everyone ages really fast
in Pakistan. And I beat thecrap out of this guy's had enough.
Couple of guards came to try tohelp him out. I beat the crap

(01:46:39):
out of that. One goes toget away, and I'm like, ah,
all right, screw it. Todayis a good day to die.
Let's make them earn it. AndI'm like doing two things in my room.
I'm preparing, I'm praying now.I locked that. I took this
the lock from my cell and lockedthe outer door, and I went inside
to put all my my my sweaterson all my shirts. My beanie,
I was putting tissue paper up inmy gums that day. That day,

(01:47:02):
I held him out of my roomfor almost an hour. And that's according
to the hijackers, because for me, everything went fast they would throw tear
gas in, I'd throw it back. No one wanted to come into my
cell by himself, that's for sure. By that time they finally ripped me
out of that cell, my bodyjust didn't want to work. I was
tired. I couldn't lift my headup. They broke every finger on my

(01:47:23):
right hand one by one. Theystarted on my left. When the superintendent,
who never left his office unless itwas a dora, which is where
he goes and searches the prison witheveryone to see everything, I held the
guards out of my room long enoughto get his attention. And when he
got my attention, Goldie's telling themthat they found drugs on me, that
I attacked him. Now Goldie doesn'tknow I speaker or do at this point,

(01:47:44):
and I'm over on the ground.The whole time this was happening,
I was getting beat up. Iwas just waiting for death to come,
but it wouldn't come. It wasjust non stop stomping and beating and slappings.
And you know, but I canhear Goldies telling them they found drugs
on me, that I attacked him. I'm on the floor, is telling
him that he's a liar. They'reasking they're taking money from me. Starving
here, I'm gonna die. Andthe superintendent comes over and he says,
you speaker, dude. I'm like, yes, sir, ask me what

(01:48:08):
happened. I tell him how Goldiafwanted five hundred rupees, how the guards
coming in my cell at night andbeat the crap out of me when I'm
sleeping and steal my money, anduh, he says, I believe you.
I mean, there's more to it, but he says, I believe
you. And then he fired goldLeaf right there on the spot. Now
because he because he fired gold Leaf, everything after that changed for me,
because Goldiaf was a monster for thewhole prison. It wasn't just me,

(01:48:30):
it was the whole prison. Soso thanking you for ding dong and the
witch is dead. When I gotwhen I woke up at the hospital,
like my hand was bandished up.There was like pepsi and chicken and sweet
dish and card and like people werehugging me. You know, everyone was
hugging me and thinking me because Igot rid of this dude. Exactly because
I got rid of this dude whowas making life help for everyone. After

(01:48:53):
that though, because he wasn't theonly one that got fired that day,
a bunch of other guards because allgot fired at that day. And after
that, all the guards are like, look, man, if I even
see a collision of cough rifle inthis Americans room, I'm going to look
the other way because they don't wantto lose their jobs. Sure, they've
got like, all of a suddenthis for some reason, this American got
all those guys fired. Well,the superintendent like the superintendent and I became

(01:49:15):
good friends after this. Actually hisname was the dem Cooker, and he
liked me. He liked me,and he didn't think I was guilty.
He genuinely believed I was innocent.Wow, what a remarkably harrowing story.
Unbelievable. I mean, you mighthave been, if not uniquely extraordinarily a
person who could withstand and somehow navigatethat horror. It's incredible. I can't

(01:49:42):
wait to get into the book.There'll be a link for the book under
this video and also under the mainshow. And Wow, it's so great
to have you here. And Imust say, as I say, I
could talk to you about this stuffand get into every little tributary of what
happen happened for hours because it's atale you just will not hear many people

(01:50:04):
tell. So thanks Eric, andgood luck with the book. And I
guess there's a is there a wasthere a movie or some kind of other
part of this. Right. Sothe book took so long to write because
every time I would try to geta ghostwriter to write it, I would
sit with them for months and months, and then they would try to go.
They would write a treatment and thentry to go get an advance,

(01:50:25):
and no one was giving advances,and so I sat with them for three
to four to five months, andit just time went away and wasting my
time that to go to another ghostwriter, another ghostwriter. Finally, Locked Up
Abroad they did the show they wantedme to be on since season one,
and I didn't want to be onthe show because I was like, all
the people on your show are guilty. And every season they would come back
to me, come back to me, come back to me. Here,

(01:50:46):
I'm trying to write my book.I've got a script. I mean,
everyone loves the story, but noone wants to put money up. Finally,
season six, Locked Up Abroad says, hey, we saw that you're
acting again. You're pretty good.What if we let you play yourself,
And I was like, what betterapp sold to play this asshole? Then
this asshole? So I played myselfand Locked Up Abroad Season six from Hollywood
to Hell. Problem with Locked UpAbroad for me is it the shows in

(01:51:08):
every country. It's a that Geosshow, so it's in every country in
every language. My episode was viewedover a billion times. And I don't
know if you know about the internet, but everyone on the internet is seven
feet tall. So I was gettingdeath threats from all over the world and
every language. Everyone's like, howmany dicks did you suck in prison?
I'm like, well, besides yourdads and your moms, I mean like,
how many times did you, youknow, get raped for a bull
of rental soup? I'm like Ilost count. You know, everyone on

(01:51:30):
the internet was just coming at mewith bullshit because Locked Up Abroad took a
thirteen hour rushed interview, crammed itinto forty eight minutes, and only kept
the exciting stuff they left out.How I was the way I was,
how I was able to adapt andevery I was able to adjust because my
life before prison led me to bebuilt for jail. I'm the only one
that I'll say this, I wasbuilt for jail. Yeah, that's what

(01:51:50):
I guess. I was saying,you're uniquely maybe built for this situation.
But it's more than just your physicalwere you navigated this psychologically as well?
Well that's that's all in my book, but that's also in my documentary Three
Years, Three Years in Pakistan,The Ericad Day Story. There's also I
had to make my own documentary andanyone who took the time to watch Locked

(01:52:11):
of Abroad talk smack to me,but take the time to watch Three Years
in Pakistan. They did a oneto eighty because they're like, now it
makes sense. The bus accidents,the beating is how I was able to
learn and how to It is adocumentary visible and viewable. They're both because
my book and my documentary the samename, Three Years in Pakistan The Ericad
Day Story. They're both on Amazon. You can you can download the book

(01:52:32):
or or watch the watch the sowe'll have links to both both the book
and and the documentary. Eric.I'm sorry, I wish I had more
time. Now. It's terrific andI congratulate you on, you know,
somehow making it through it all andbeyond that you're like a super well adjusted
guy. I just really don't knowhow you've done it, but bravo,

(01:52:54):
my friend. It's great to seeyou again. I appreciate Mark everything.
Man, you take care, Okay, thanks for god Day, everybody,
see you, my friend. TheMark Thompson Show, and that is the

(01:53:15):
Mark Thompson Show. I'm Kim McAllisterand that's Tony. Tony, You're such
a gift. I just appreciate youso much. Can you imagine being locked
up in a foreign country for threeyears? How crazy is that? I
would not have done well. No, I would not have done well.
I'm definitely not built for presents,let me tell you that much, not
even a little bit. But itreally sounds like an interesting book and an

(01:53:36):
interesting documentary. So glad to haveheard the story. Tomorrow on The Mark
Thompson Show, John Rothman will behere to talk politics. Belinda Weymouth is
coming our way with It's the PlanetsStupid. So it's going to be a
great Wednesday show and we'll have anupdate from Mark perhaps as well. I
hope you guys have a great restof your day. Please join me for

(01:53:58):
the After Party Live, which isx a programming note I'm Selhill, Stevens
feather, Mark Johnson Show. TheNicki Mindoro Show did not air today,
why it will air at two thisafternoon in case you're looking for it.
All right, I'll see you guystomorrow and see you on the After Party
Live next bye everyone, by Tony. Bye,

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