S01E01: Introduction

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, Welcome to the Missiphonias Show. This show is produced
by the International Missiphonia Foundation, which is a nonprofit in Missouri.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
This podcast is intended for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only.
It does not constitute mental health treatment, therapy, or diagnosis
in any way, shape or form. If you are in
need of mental health therapy or other services, please contact
a local mental health clinician or contact your local crisis services.

(00:35):
All right, so we are finally beginning this podcast that
we've been talking about for ages of ages. So what
shall we talk about today? I guess you.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Should introduce ourselves first, all right, do you want to
go first?

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (00:51):
So my name is Shanlin Hayes Raymond, and I am
an LCT dash SEE in New Fransive, Canada, which stands
for Licensed Counseling Therapist Candidate. And I have been an
advocate for miscephonia since twenty fifteen because I have the
disorder myself, and I kind of fell into advocacy because
no one was really talking about it ten years ago

(01:12):
and life goes on and I ended up here with
the International Masiphonia Foundation and Amber is also a board
member with myself and two others, and we decided to
make this show to share information about missiphonia research even
answer general questions. And since it's led by clinicians, hopefully

(01:34):
we can kind of get into the science a little bit.
But as our dislaimer says, this is not a replacement
for any form of therapy and it is just educational.
So I actually have written a few books on missphonia,
and my first was in twenty fifteen and that's full
of sounded theory, and then more recently I've switched to
a more clinical perspective and wrote Missophonia Matters, which is

(01:57):
an advocacy based approach to cocaine with misophone me at
and that is something that I'm very passionate about about
advocacy and communication, which is how we ended up here
at the Muscetfonia show because this is a huge part
of that.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Okay, all right, and my name is Amber Libanoga. I
am a licensed clinical social worker in Missouri. Currently I
own my own private practice. I mostly focus on obsessed
goals of disorder as well as treating other mental illnesses,
including anxiety disorders, and occasionally I do work with individuals

(02:37):
with misceophonia. I am also on the board for the
International Missophonia Foundation, and I have helped start that foundation
after becoming friends with Shay.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
She got roped in.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yes, I got roped in. I didn't really have much
of a choice. I have fallen told basically, but I'm
here and I am I'm interested in helping other people
as well as I love research. I love discussing research,
and making sure that people have valid coping skills and

(03:16):
valid ways of getting help is always important to me
interesting as well. Since I am in Missouri and Shase
up in Canada, we get to bring a nice international perspective,
although hopefully throughout this process we will be able to

(03:38):
speak to people from different countries and different backgrounds who
aren't exactly just North American.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, and especially researchers. There's a lot of research even
in the UK, and there's a lot of wonderful research
going on, which I'm really happy to say because ten
years ago I couldn't accept that there were like two
people and they were barely interested. They were also, wrote Dinch.
So we're getting to a point where Missophonia research is
expanding and there's actually so many things to talk about.

(04:09):
So I find that very exciting, and we can also
bring on news studies and just kind of go through
them from an academic perspective, and we'll probably do that
sometimes and talking to people just with Missiphonia and I
have a forum on the website if you want to
submit a question for the show, we'll be happy to
answer it on air, and I believe I will also

(04:30):
make a submission form that if you want to send
a video to be included, you can do it that way,
so that everybody can kind of share how they would like.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
To absolutely and one thing that we have found through
working in online mental forums as well as working together
for consulting as clinicians, is that being able to share

(05:01):
your story and being able to recognize that there is
a community of other people who feel like you do,
who experience the world like you do, can be extremely helpful.
So that's one of the ways that this podcast is
intended to make sure that people feel heard and feel understood.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
There's actually a study going on at the university of
a master's student and she's actually specifically studying missophonia in
support groups, So we'll have some research about that in
the next year. Sorry, I cannot remember the exact name
right now. But yeah, that's going to be interesting to
see specifically for misophonia because we've already seen it for

(05:42):
things like anxiety and OCD, so it'll be cool to
see research specifically on that. Even though we've heard so
many anecdotal stories. As a clinician, we always do take
pure reviewed research as our first kind of go to,
but I will say for missiphonia, for a lot years,
it's been mostly anecdotal because there was such a small

(06:05):
volume of literature. It's been a bit difficult because some
research will have different perspectives or we'll look at it
from their own lens in a different mental disorder. So
I think it's important to be very straightforward about the
science and where mesophonia stands right now, which is that
it is most likely in neurophysiological disorder which impacts the

(06:27):
amygdala and causes fight flight freeze reaction. There are also
mirror neurons that have been shown as part of the disorder.
There is a there is a Delphi study on miceophonia
and a consensus definition done by professionals in the field,
and their analysis was that misophonia is a discrete disorder

(06:47):
that does not have the characteristics of another disorder, whether
psychiatric or neurophysiological or neurological. However, there is not yet
a diagnosis. It's not in the DSM or the ICD.
That is something that we'd really like to see. But
I'd also like to point out that it's not necessarily
the case that even being in these manuals will be
a perfect representation because where it has that neurophysiological component,

(07:12):
we're going to need a lot more research to get
that brain basis down. But I don't want to make
people think that you know, it's helpless. We know nothing.
We are learning so much, it just takes time to
get to a place where that equals and actual diagnosis
for a condition.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, and I do want to make a couple of clarifications. Okay, amigdala.
That's that part in the back of your brain that
is generally associated with fear and with the that fight
or flight or response that I am going to die,
so now I need to save myself response in the brain. Now,
if we're talking about discrete disorders, that means it's not

(07:51):
just a symptom of something else, which is important because
that means that you cannot treat this phonia like another disorder.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
OCD or OCD YES, which is I mentioned because it
is very commonly conflated, and as a person with both
OCD and misceophonia, I can tell you from this crazy
little brain of mind, they are not the same. They
are very different. They both suck, but they're very different. Now,
if you do have co occurring OCD, that can change

(08:25):
how your mistphonia happens, Like I personally will ruminate about
triggers when they're not happening. That is OCD that is
playing off the misceophonia. But they are not the same.
I'm sorry to cut you off. I just really really
want to focus on the fact that they are not
the same, because there has been a lot of confusion,

(08:46):
but the current scientific literature does not back that up
in the consensus definition.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
So obviously we can see that there are a couple
of what's the word I'm looking for, pet peeves that
you have when it comes to misophonia, the research and
how others.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Talk about it.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Absolutely, that would probably be a fun episode.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
So I will say when it comes to missophonia, I
have always been very outspoken about research, about education and
about support, and I am very much of the opinion
that yes, research matters, Yes, clinical opinions matter. However, the
lived experiences of people who actually have missophonia are very

(09:36):
important as a new disorder forms because you know, we
are the experts on ourselves. We are the ones that
live with this day in day out, and it can
be very disheartening if you go to a provider and
they'll say something like, oh, we're going to try exposure
therapy and you're like, no, absolutely not, and they'll say

(09:56):
something like, but that's the treatment I have. And it's
like being armed with facts, with research, with understanding that
sensory that sensory stimuli is cumulative and there is research
to back that up. I think that's very empowering for individuals.
And I also think that this podcast another goal is

(10:17):
to educate clinicians and educate people in the mental health
field of what this is, that it's something different, because
you know, a lot of people don't hear about miscephonia
until they have a client who has it. And I
don't want to say it's already too late, but they're
already in the position where they're offering things that they're
not sure of.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Absolutely, So let's take so I think it might be
helpful to just break down what we know so far
and make it just as simple as possible. So, for example,
kind of recognizing that this is in neurophysiological that's a
big ass word, that basically means that this is a
disorder that is your brain reacting to certain stimuli, to

(11:02):
certain noises, to certain sounds and visual stimulus in ways
that activate a part of your brain that it's not
supposed to activate.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yes, and it's not cognitive. I think that's very important
to kind of mention there. You're having the thought after
you have the reaction.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Absolutely, so this is not something that you can think
yourself out of. So a lot of times with things
like depression or obsessive compulsive disorder or just anxiety you have,
you know that you have thoughts that aren't necessarily true
that lead to these emotions that are coming out of

(11:48):
your brain. In Missiphonia's case, the reaction comes without those
precursor thoughts, So you can't necessarily say that, yes, I
have heard this thing that has caused me a lot
of distress and harm, and you can't necessarily teat your
brain that, oh no, this doesn't actually hurt me. It's

(12:11):
just a simple it's just somebody tapping on the tapping
on at their desk. That's not how this works because
the tapping happens and then your brain reacts instead of
your brain being able to process the Hey, this person
is tapping on their desk. Oh that bucks me.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
No, it's.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Tapping rar and then oh, I really dislike the sound
of that. So I want to say, as someone with misiphonia,
I also want to kind of mention the physiological side,
because yes, it's feeling this distress, it's feeling these intense emotions,
but also with the fight flight response, you're getting that

(12:53):
full feeling, that adrenaline release.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
So your heart rate could be pacing, you can feel
out of breath, you might feel like you're panicking, calm sweating,
even a muscle tightness. You might feel actual physical pain.
That is possible and I've experienced that myself. So it's
important to really focus that, Yes, there is an emotional impact,
but it's also impacting the entire physical body.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Oh absolutely, Because emotions do impact the physical body. So
the thing that you were also talking about with the
stibulus is being cumulative. So what that means is that
say you are triggered, and I'm using that term to

(13:39):
just mean that this thing started the.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
I will say that the word trigger has been used
consistently in the literature, so that is the term that
science has settled on. Whether or not it's a good word,
I'll say that I think we need to understand that
it means something different than a psychological trigger. And also
they're specifically talking about the moment of impact, that the

(14:06):
amendola is having a response to the stimulus, not your
emotional response.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Right exactly. So in this case we're using trigger as
in the if you were getting stabbed, if the knife
was actually getting pushed in you, that's triggering your your
blood starting out. So going back thinking of that cumulative effect,
So if you are triggered by that one thing and

(14:32):
your middala starts going in you get into fight or flight,
that doesn't just immediately go away.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
In order to get the pair.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Sympathetic nervous system to actually kick in, you have to
be able to calm down first. So if you cannot
calm down, if you are not able to get pair
sympathetic nervous system come in, and you get triggered by
something else, so something else decides to stab you in
the ear. As it were, You're not just going to

(15:03):
stop bleeding from that first one. You're now bleeding from
two different separate places.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
If you want an actual missophonia response, anybody who was
watching on camera would see my facial expressions get terrible.
There was a trigger outside my window and I had
to go to noise canceling. But yeah, just like in
the wild of just suddenly I'm like, what is going
on here?

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Absolutely, so, that is a cumulative effect. It is one
of those things that makes it feel like just being
out and being functional in life can be just a
danger zone because you are constantly being bombarded by something
that might tell you are a migdala that you are
now in danger.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
It's like an active war zone for your brain. It's
not literally a war zone, but the way our bodies
are responding it may as well be.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Absolutely Now, generally I would not call that a trauma response,
but your body acting like it has experienced some trauma.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
I personally think that we're going to need more research
to see if missiphonia itself is then inducing a trauma response.
We don't have research on that yet, but I think
that would be a very interesting study to look at
the characteristics of PTSD and misceophonia and just kind of
like unpack them in individuals with it. Oh.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
Absolutely, And I think one of the things that you
and I have talked about is that in some people
with with misophonia, they will develop symptoms that are very
consistent with borderline personality disorder, which a lot of clinicians
and a lot of researchers are now recognizing as complex PTSD.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
That Satty was actually very early I think perhaps two
thousand and eight with doctor Rosenthal from Duke and Yeah,
it did show that there were borderline traits that seem
to happen miscessonia.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Progressed, which would kind of work with the idea that
miscephonia is causing those trauma responses even though noises and
visual stimulas aren't going to kill you, No, but if
your brain thinks they are, it's.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Basically it all comes out the same in the wash.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
At the end. Yeah, it's going to come out the same.
So individuals who have dealt with this disorder for a
long time, especially from childhood, might have those traits that
cause them to struggle to function in the world, function
in their relationships, be able to function at work and

(17:43):
at school, and also have really difficulty just with socializing
in general. And it has nothing to do with whether
or not there amikola is actually activated that in that motion.
It might just be that combined and continuable just responses

(18:05):
have gotten to that point where they don't know how
to respond to anymore.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
I mean, we only have one nervous system in one
brain for everything we do. Regardless of if you know
you're hearing a trigger sound or not, you're still that person.
And I do say that there's hope in this that
at least the co occurring stuff, there's a lot more
treatment and a lot more research, and that's where clinicians

(18:32):
can do a better job. Maybe they can't make the
missiphonia go away, but they can give you coping skills
for the other stuff, which can be very helpful. Absolutely,
especially CD. Yeah, especially with the OCD type stuff, and.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
With the research that is showing that mesophonia is a
separate disorder from other disorders. That means that we can
as clinicians with Taylor, Taylor, I know you hate this
word tailor treatment to the misophonia itself instead of trying

(19:09):
to say Okay, we're going to treat this like an
anxiety sorder. We're going to treat this like OCD, because,
like you were talking about, a lot of people with
OCD do really well doing ERP so exposure response prevention.
I you teach yourself that these things that your brain
responds to very decative lead with a lot of distress,

(19:31):
aren't actually as distressing as we're supposed to be. As
you think.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
One thing that a clinician can be very helpful. I've
actually had this happen in clinical practices. If you have
a client who does have both OCD and misophonia, you
can help them pick that apart and write down, even
if it's just like a list, which ones are misophonia
and which ones are OCD, and then you can say, okay,
look the misophonia, I understand that this is your megdalave.

(19:56):
We're not going to do ERP for that. No, we
won't touch it. That's a hard line. But we could
focus on the things that are OCD. And if you
have a clinician who's really good at picking these things
apart and understands that it's a discreet disorder with co
occurring symptoms, if they have it, then you can get
to a place where the clinician can really help you

(20:17):
sit down and then talk you through it, like how
do you feel when you hear this? Like why did
you react that way? And then be like, I don't know,
it just causes the reaction every time that it's probably misophonia,
or like if it's OCD, it might be more random,
but there's usually a bit more of a cognitive first,
like you have a thought that like if X Y,

(20:39):
and then a clinician can really help you know, take
that apart and really focus on which switch.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Absolutely, and I think and the biggest thing that clinicians
can really focus on and what they should be focusing
on with any type of mental health treatment is just
how do we get this person to be as functional
as they can be and as successful as they can
be and they want to be, Because the first thing

(21:08):
with working with anybody or with having any type of
disorder is the client has to be the one who
wants to do something and who wants to either make
a change or who wants to make things better. If
they don't, nothing's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, I want to add to that too, that a
lot of times there's a power structure that happens, and
this is recognized by all of our ethics boards.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
There's a power structure between clinician and client where the
clinician can seem like an authority, but that's not necessarily true.
And I want to point out that if you go
to a clinician and you feel like they are not
helping you or they are not well equipped with misophonia
research and understanding, it is perfectly okay to stop treat

(22:00):
at any time and say, look, this isn't for me
and find somebody else. And I really want to point
out that just because someone has a degree on that
wall or has a license, that doesn't mean that they're
the expert on you.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Absolutely, yeah, And that is one of the things that
I tell all of my clients when I start meeting
with them is that if you don't like me, go
find somebody else. Yeah, and her feelings.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
We are just people at the end of the day,
and some of us are really good at something, some
of us are bad at others. I know there's certain
topics that I just can't touch because I go into
my own brain and I'm like nope. And Amber knows this,
She's worked with me. She knows I have some hard
lines of no.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
So basically this podcast is hopefully going to be a
little less all over the place with future episodes. But
what really wanted to introduce, Yeah, we wanted to really
introduce ourselves and kind of it have the.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Ability to.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Just let you know who we are, why we're out here.
Some of the things that I think would be some
of the topics that I think would be really interesting
to cover is relationships in the sophonia. I think also
having a job, going to school, being productive combinations. Yeah, absolutely,

(23:27):
Accommodations would go right in there. I actually I talk
a lot with my clients about appropriate commodations. I've actually
worked in community mental health as well as an impatient
settings where we did need to do a lot with accommodations.
I've worked with people with developmental disabilities who we've had

(23:48):
to do a lot with accommodations, and sometimes some of
those folks are very sensitive to sounds and we've had
to do accommodations for that. I don't know if it's
along the lines of necessarily misophonia, but because a lot
of the people who have worked with are very have
been nonverbal but like, yeah, accommodations, being productive as you can,

(24:13):
those are things that are really important to me. I
know that I have literally worked with a gentleman who
was on dialysis and losing his legs in order to
set up his wood shop at his house so he
could actually continue to do would work, and was working
with another gentleman who was losing his sight on okay,
how can we use the saw that without cutting off

(24:35):
our hands? I mean, you can do things regardless of
whatever else is going on. So if you could do
woodwork as a blind person, there's a lot of stuff
you could do with misophonia.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
And a huge part is also kind of changing the
narrative because there's people who will say and I don't
want to say people because I'm look, I'll see it.
I'm specifically talking about audio who are seeing missophonia from
the perspective of a hearing disorder. But all current research
so uncomfortable saying. This current research is that it's neurophysiological.

(25:09):
It is not your ear processing the sound. Yes, you
have ears and they hear the sound, but it is
your brain's processing of Let's consider it like data, like
the actual input, like say your keyboard, you tipe something
into it and your keyboard works fine, but then your
computer isn't actually processing that text and it gives you gibberish.

(25:30):
That's the computer doing it, not the keyboards. So the
ear usually actually, most people I know with misophonia have
amazing hearing tests, like great hearing, and then they think, oh,
maybe I hear too well. But that's usually not the case.
But my point is it's not the ear, no.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
It's processing.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yes, And that's why I'm leading into I personally think
that if you need ear plugs or headphones or something,
so what if that's what gets you through, gets your
quality of life up there, awesome, If that's what you need, awesome,
Just like if you were death and you wanted to
hearing a great We're not going to say, oh, but

(26:09):
that could like ruin your ears, because it makes the
quality of life better. And I do disagree with some
perspectives that take it a little too far. However, I
will give all audiologists their due diligence. Don't use obviously
dirty ear plugs in your ears. That's very dangerous. Watch
out for, you know, ear infections, and don't play your

(26:32):
music to the point where you're busting your ear drum
stuff like that. Still follow the safety that is very important,
but I don't think normal use is really going to do.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Oh absolutely, So one thing to one thing that I
think is probably important to note for both of us
as well as our audience is Shane and I might
ramble a little bit.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
So okay, now let's call it a little.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, let's call a little you know what, We're going
to go from a strength space perspective here.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
This is a conversational podcast. We are not experts. We
will use science as much as we can, but we
are just people getting through it like the rest of you.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Absolutely, But I think one thing to note is we
will release mostly edited versions of the podcast, but I
think as this goes on, we will probably have a
tier that you get the whole unedited version and then
have a slightly more compact version with less of our ramblings.

(27:37):
And then the fun part is is any donations to
that go to the International Miscephonia Foundation, which if you
live in the United States you can deduct that off
your taxes.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yes, and that goes toward all of our mission, goes awareness, research, education. Honestly,
if you can think about it, we're probably doing it
harassing major companies for accessibility. That's where I spend most
of my time. I've talked to Microsoft, I've talked to Google.
When I say I talk to them like, they have

(28:12):
responded and made changes. So yeah, if you can think
about it and it has to do with missophonia, I'm
probably doing it obsessively. That's where my OSCD comes in.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah. Absolutely, But that type of work and that type
of advocacy does take time, it does take ability to
make sure that we have the resources to be able
to do it.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Money.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
So yeah, yeah, that would be money, That's what I'm
talking about. Also, in our plans, we really hope to
help bolster research by providing funds for researchers who really
want to focus on miscephonia. Unfortunately, as we know, for
US based listeners, a lot of research funding has been.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Cut, so nonprofits in general too.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
It's gonna have to come from somewhere. So if we
can get the money together so that we can fund
research projects that are going to help make sure that
people have access to better and more functional treatment so
they can be more functional and do what they want,
you know, that's the important part. So but yeah, so

(29:26):
a couple of topics. That's where I was going before
we went down that lovely route. So a couple of
topics working, education, living with family, living with children. I
think parenting with misophonia is probably I feel like we're
gonna need to get some participant in put on that one,

(29:51):
because I think that that would be a really interesting
I definitely can think of a few people who we
can talk to about that.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Absolutely. Also, it's challenging if you are the parent with
mesophonia or you're the parent with a child with misophonia,
and in some very unfortunate situations, you might find yourself
as both. I've heard families that have three misophonic childs
children and a misophonic parent. And there is a genetic
basis that has been found in the TENEM two gene.

(30:21):
I believe that's the gene and there is you know.
But I do want to emphasize because a lot of
parents will say, well, did I give this to them?
But that is not how simple genetics are. It's genes on,
genes off, and epigenetics. It's never as simple as that'd
be like blaming yourself for the color of your child's hair,
Like it just kind of is.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Absolutely and I mean we don't know where these genes
come from or where when they meetuntated or things like that.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Frankly, well, how they got turned on or turned off.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, exactly. So that's one of those things that I mean,
I tell people who simply have a US a convulsive disorder,
if you want to become a parent, don't not become
apparent because you're afraid of passing it on. But that's
that is definitely a different that's definitely a topic for
a different show. If you have any suggestions or questions,

(31:17):
comments or things that you would like to see, send
them in Shay was talking about at thebi at the
top of the show, different avenues that you can send
your questions, comments.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
And they'll definitely be links and wherever this is posted
as well as not Missphonia Foundation dot com and Missiphonia
International dot com, you can always find resources there. And
even if you're looking for resources other than this podcast,
like books, classes, et cetera, we have a ton of
resources available, both free and paid, depending on what you're

(31:49):
looking for.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
All right, and if you are looking for a therapist
or counselor who understands misophonia, where would they find one
of those right well.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Miscephoniafoundation dot com also has a clinician directory and we
have several clinicians who have at least shown enough understanding
of miscephonia that they, you know, understand it and want
to help. Obviously there's no official treatment, but these are
licensed clinicians who are helping persons with miceophonia. And that

(32:25):
list has psychologists, it has licensed counselors, it has social workers,
it has some audiologists, some medical doctors. Is a very
diverse list. Most of the practitioners right now are in
the United States. However, it is growing and if you
are a clinician interested, we offer clinician training through our
website through classes so that you can learn more about

(32:46):
miscephonia and become part of the clinician network. And a
really important goal that we have is having clinicians from
all over the world because we called it the International
Misceophonia Foundation for a reason. We want to, you know,
spread this as far and wide as we can.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
So anyway, so we will see you on our well
we won't, we'll see each other, but we'll talk at
you on our next episode.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
Thank you for listening to the Miscephonia Show. You can
find free and paid resources at the International Miscephonia Foundation website.