One Of The Most Perplexing Disappearances Out There - Carl Landers

This video covers the disappearance of Carl Landers on Mount Shasta in California.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hey there, folks. Before we get into this video, we
need to have a little talk. I've often gotten the
question from viewers, why don't you cover any paranormal missing
person's cases. My answer is I do. Almost every case
presented on this channel is considered a missing four to
one one case, which is to say, it is considered
by some people to be in some way unexplainable or

(00:42):
possibly paranormal. How is it my fault that when you
look at all of the facts of a case it
doesn't seem paranormal anymore? But I get the point. You'd
think there at least has to be some cases out
there that appear to be unexplainable or even paranormal. Maybe
there is, but my bar forgetting to the point of
possibly paranormal is pretty high, as it should be. Certain

(01:05):
criteria need to be met. For example, there needs to
be adequate documentation. What does this mean, Well, there's a
lot of cases that you could say sound paranormal, but
they're over fifty years old, and our only sources are
one or two newspaper articles. It's not enough to be
anything conclusive. Another thing I find important is an investigation,

(01:25):
a thorough search by authorities that we can review. This
is important because some authorities in this country simply don't
investigate disappearances in the way you might think someone might
go missing. And the only documentation a sheriff has on
it is a one page report saying John Doe disappeared
and he's still missing. And I'm hardly even joking about that.

(01:47):
So adequate documentation and a thorough investigation are like a
baseline of what's necessary. If those things turn up nothing,
no possible explanation for what happened, then I would look
towards possible witnesses. If there are, what do they have
to say about what happened? Now, sometimes you get important
witnesses and sometimes you don't. After that, I'd want to

(02:09):
look at the location where the individual disappeared. What does
the terrain look like? Is it dangerous? Is there any
way in my wildest imagination that I can see someone
dying by accident or even foul play in a particular area.
That one is difficult to overcome sometimes because wilderness areas
tend to have an inherent deadliness to them. If we

(02:31):
can get through all of these things, then I'm getting
to a point where I can start thinking, hmm, maybe
we should start considering something outside the box. The problem
with touching on a paranormal explanation is that it has
no limits. Was it Bigfoot, UFO abduction, a portal to
another realm, or a purple people eater could be all
of the above. I suppose in that sense, a paranormal

(02:54):
explanation might as well just be the equivalent of we
have no idea what happened, because unless we actually have
a credible witness or some evidence suggesting that something like
Bigfoot actually abducted someone, then there's really no point in
presenting the theory. There's a million other paranormal possibilities that
are just as likely, or perhaps unlikely. For that matter,

(03:16):
we simply don't get many modern cases like that. Sure,
there's been times in the past where we thought we
had cases like that. That Dennis Martin case comes to mind.
There was a long period of time where people, myself included,
really thought Dennis was seen being carried away by a
bigfoot or even a feral human. None of that turned
out to be true, though in the end, almost everything

(03:39):
that made that case seem paranormal was disproven by diligent research.
This is why I try to be very careful before
I consider slapping that paranormal label on a case. Everything
else must be exhausted first. Besides that, if we can't
think up a good answer, maybe we shouldn't bother postulating one.
There's a lot of great mischief reason the world, like

(04:01):
what is the origin of life in the universe? Or
why doesn't the Missing Enigma release more videos? Do these
mysteries really necessitate an answer? Some might say yes. Okay.
So that being said, if you were to ask me
what case always pops up in my head when I
think of a case that could possibly be paranormal, it

(04:22):
would be the case we're going to cover today, the
disappearance of Carl Landers. Now, hold on before you say anything,
I am not labeling this case as paranormal. I'm not
doing that. If you ask me what case pops into
my head when I consider a case that might be paranormal,
it's this one. Because there are very very few explanations

(04:43):
I can give you for it. That's not zero. We'll
get into all that later in the video, but for now,
let's go over the case in detail so you can
somewhat understand where I'm coming from. And we'll also visit
the location in question, so you can get an even
better idea of what we're dealing with in this case,
which takes us to the supposed paranormal hotbed of Mount Shasta, California.

(05:05):
Mount Shasta towers over the rest of the Shasta Trinity
National Forest, standing at over fourteen thousand feet in elevation.
The mountain and the surrounding territory is steeped and legend
from stories of a Lemurian civilization that lives within the mountain,
two Doppelganger robot Grandmas that take children into the forest.

(05:26):
You can find plenty of strange in this area, but
we're here to talk about the mountain itself, a popular
climbing location. First, let's look at the route up Mount
Shasta that we are going to be talking about. It's
called Avalanche Gulch. It's the most popular route on the mountain.
To begin, you can drive a good ways up in
elevation and get to a place called Bunny Flat. Bunny

(05:49):
Flat is a trailhead and also a parking lot. This
is where you can leave your car while you go
climb the mountain or hike in the area. You then
take the Horse Camp trail up to the horse Camp itself.
Here there is also an old Sierra Club cabin that
is beautifully maintained. You can't stay in it, but you
can camp around it. This is one of the possible

(06:10):
stopping or camping points on this route in May. It's
likely that this first part of the trek has minimal snow.
As you continue moving up the mountain, it only gets
more and more steep and the snow continues to get worse.
The next feasible stopping point is a location called fifty
to fifty. It's little more than a relatively flat outcropping

(06:32):
on the side of the mountain. It is possible to
camp here for the night. Otherwise, the next possible stop
is a location called Lake Helen. Though it's called a lake,
it is only liquid for a very small portion of
the year. Lake Helen is a popular camping point on
the mountain for those wishing to summit for our purposes.
This is all you really need to know about the route.

(06:54):
Start at Bunny Flat, hit horse Camp, then fifty to fifty,
then Lake Helen. Carl Landers was sixty nine years old

(07:15):
in nineteen ninety nine. He was fit and passionate about
hiking and climbing. Carl was retired from the air conditioning
industry and living in Orinda, California with his wife, Bobby Landers,
who was also the former mayor of Orinda. Carl had
children as well, a son who was also named Carl,
and two daughters. Carl was motivated to climb the highest

(07:37):
peak in every county in California. His journey even made
the local news. While we're trying to climb the summits
of every county in the state of California, and some
are easy and summer tough. Carl was going on this
hike with two close friends, Barry Gilmour and Milt Gaines.
Barry was sixty years old, Milt was sixty four, and

(07:58):
Carl was the oldest at the end age of sixty nine. Together,
the three men had been on around twenty five hikes
together in the past ten years. They had met through
a group called the Orinda road Runners, which was a
sort of club for older folks looking to stay in
shape by exercising together. This would be Carl's second attempt
at climbing Mount Shasta, after failing the summit once in

(08:21):
the past. This failed attempt continued to haunt Carl he
was a stubborn man, and when he set a goal,
he hated to fail to achieve it. Because of this,
he was extra determined to make this second hike up
Mount Shasta a success. The plan was to start on Friday,
May twenty first, and be back off the mountain by
Saturday evening around seven pm. He planned to call his

(08:44):
wife from the town of Mount Shasta that evening as well,
because he was planning on hiking Mount Eddie and another
mountain while he was in the area. He was planning
to do those hikes on his own, as his hiking companions,
Barry and Milt were going home on Saturday evening. Carl's wife, Bobby,
wanted to talk Carl out of doing those last two
hikes because she never liked it when he hiked alone.

(09:07):
Before leaving, Carl told his wife that he wasn't happy
with the quality of the jacket he planned to use.
Bobby suggested that he'd take her jacket instead, which Carl
reluctantly agreed. The trio of men had a camera with
them which documented the trip that would eventually turn into
an unending nightmare. In each picture, Carl stands out with

(09:28):
his bright purple and red jacket. The group left for
their climb as planned on the morning of Friday, May
twenty first, around six thirty am. They arrived in the
town of Mount Shasta around eleven am. While there, they
did some things before heading up to Bunny Flatt and
beginning their hike around three pm. During this time, Carl

(09:49):
was initially feeling fine on the way up the trail
to horse Camp, but it wasn't long before he started
having issues with diarrhea. This could be the result of
either the altitude or or the diamocs that Carl was
taking for altitude sickness. As it happens, diamocs can pretty
much give you the same symptoms as altitude sickness. Go

(10:10):
figure Milton Berry said that Carl had to stop a
few times along the trail because of this problem. They
said that Carl had always been a slow walker, but
on this trip he seemed slower than usual. On the
way up, Milton Berry offered to help Carl by carrying
his pack, which weighed about fifteen pounds. Carl let them

(10:30):
do this, which was not normal. Typically, Carl was very
stubborn about receiving help from someone. Carl's companions tried walking
behind him for a while in order to not get
too far ahead, but he eventually asked them not to,
so they led the way. The trio eventually made it
to horse camp, but decided to push on to fifty

(10:50):
to fifty. The journey continued on in this fashion, with
Carl moving slowly, and eventually his two companions got far
ahead of him. Milton and Barry arrived at fifty fifty
around eight pm and decided to camp for the night.
The wind was blowing very hard on the mountain. They
estimated it at fifty miles per hour gusts. Soon, another

(11:12):
hiker arrived at fifty to fifty and asked them if
they knew a man named Carl. They said they did.
The hiker said that Karl was down the mountain aways
and in need of some assistance. Milton Berry then made
their way back down the mountain some two hundred yards
and found Carl struggling along. They took his pack from
him and all three made it up to their camp

(11:33):
at fifty fifty. While there, they started setting up camp
by digging out an igloo for their tent, and Carl helped.
It took them about an hour to put up their
tent because of the high winds. During this time, Carl
never complained about feeling poorly. However, he was obviously not
feeling very well that evening, and it was only getting

(11:53):
worse the higher he got in altitude. The men got
in the tent and began fixing dinner. Chicken noodle souper
was on the menu, but Carl did not eat dinner
that night. His friends tried to get him to eat,
but Carl stubbornly refused. Barry and Milt said that the
diarrhea continued, with Carl going to the bathroom a couple
of times before they went to bed. They also mentioned

(12:15):
that he was not drinking much water. Still, the group
decided to rest for the night and continue their journey
in the morning. That night, Carl seemed to sleep fine,
getting up only once to go to the bathroom. Their
plan was to get up around three am and continue
their hike, but they decided that since they got there
late and had trouble setting up the tent, they would

(12:37):
simply get up when they woke up. The next morning, Saturday,
May twenty second, the group woke up around five fifty am.
They had some trouble getting their stoves started due to
the wind. They eventually got it to work and made
some hot chocolate. Milton Berry said that Carl was unusually
quiet during this time, and he drank some of his

(12:58):
hot chocolate and was also able to hold down half
a bagel with cream cheese. The two men asked Carl
if he was all right, and he said he was fine. Still,
Carl expressed his desire to continue the climb, even though
he clearly wasn't feeling well. He indicated that he would
never have a chance to do it again. Carl still
had diarrhea during this time, going to the bathroom once

(13:20):
before breakfast and once after. The trio noticed that the
wind was picking up even more, making their trek increasingly dangerous.
They made the decision to hike up to Lake Helen,
where they would stop and decide if they would continue
on or go back. Before they could continue, they still
needed to take down their tent, which was anchored in

(13:40):
the frozen snow with their ice axes. Milton Berry suggested
to Carl that since he was moving slow and not
feeling well, he should go on ahead while they took
down the tent. Once Barry and Milt had packed up camp,
they anticipated catching up to Carl. None of the men,
including Carl, were concerned about this, since they could literally

(14:02):
see Lake Helen from their camp and Carl had been
on this trail before. In essence, Milton Berry should have
been able to simply turn their heads and see Carl
along most of the route to Lake Helen. You can
see from a satellite map that they're not wrong. They
should have been able to keep Carl in sight for
quite some time. For a while, Carl just stood outside

(14:24):
the tent while everyone got their gear together. He was
being very quiet, and eventually Milton Berry suggested that he
start walking to Lake Helen. In response, Carl merely said okay.
It would be the last word they heard from him.
The time was somewhere around nine am. Milton Berry continued
to take down the tent, and neither one of them

(14:46):
saw him walk up the trail to Lake Helen. Barry
started up the trail around nine forty five am while
Milt was working on his crampons that didn't fit right,
so he had to jerry rig them. Since six am
that morning, there had been a steady flow of hikers
walking up the trail and past their camp. Milt felt
that if Carl was in trouble, one of these men

(15:08):
would have seen and helped him. Milt left fifty to
fifty at around ten am, and eventually he caught up
with Barry about half way to Lake Helen. Milt said
that when he saw Barry's face, he noticed that he
looked really pale and appeared to not be feeling well.
Barry confirmed that the altitude was indeed getting to him.
He felt so bad that he decided it would be

(15:29):
smart to turn back and head for the bottom of
the mountain and on to their vehicle at Bunny Flat.
As Barry headed down the mountain, it was upon Milt
to head up further to Lake Helen, where he intended
to meet up with Carl and have him climb back down. Essentially,
at this point the climb was going to be aborted.
Barry was out and already heading back down. Carl was

(15:53):
in much the same condition. He just didn't want to quit,
and Milt, caring more about the safety of his friends,
wanted to cancel the trip. All he had to do
was climb up to Lake Helen and get to Carl,
or so he thought. The problem is when Milt finally
made it up to Lake Helen. Carl was nowhere to
be found. There were numerous people already at the lake,

(16:16):
coming and going. Milt went to speak with a ranger, Paul,
and asked him if he had seen a sixty nine
year old man come by. Ranger Paul told Milt that
he saw someone matching this description, and the man asked
which was the best way to continue. The ranger showed
him the different routes, and he discouraged the man from
taking the harder route. That was the last time the

(16:38):
ranger saw the man. Milt looked up both trails and
saw around twenty people hiking up the easier trail and
just a single person walking up the harder trail. Milt
wasn't sure, but he thought the single person looked like
it could be Carl. One of the things that made
him think it was Carl was the way the person
was walking five steps forward, then stop to rest five steps,

(17:02):
then stop to rest five steps, then sit down. Milt
tried to catch up with this individual, but wasn't able
to do so. When he eventually got to the rim,
he looked around but didn't see anyone Looking at the
footprints in the snow. It appeared the individual joined up
with another group. Milt decided that Carl could not have
gotten this far this fast, he was simply moving too slow.

(17:26):
Milt began to head back down the mountain to look
for Carl, and when he got to fifty fifty he
encountered some other climbers stopping there. He told them about
Carl and they discussed his options. Eventually, they decided he
should call the sheriff's department and get a rescue team
out there. Milt eventually decided to head back down to
Bunny Flatt and meet up with authorities. Before he did,

(17:49):
he left the tent, a sleeping bag, and food at
their camp site in case Carl happened to return while
he was gone. On May twenty second, at eight pm,
the Siskiu County Sheriff's office received a call about a
missing hiker on Mount Shasta. The call came via cell
phone from an individual camping near Lake Helen. Presumably this

(18:10):
was Milt Gaines, and he requested that the sheriff contact
Barry Gilmour, who was now down in the Bunny Flat
parking area. The sheriff made contact with Barry fifteen minutes later.
And he filled out a search and rescue worksheet with
information regarding Carl. SAR personnel were already en route to
the location at this time to begin the search. Everyone

(18:31):
was provided the worksheet with information about Carl and where
he went missing. The Weed Airport became the base of
operations for the search as it was an easy place
to ship people and equipment in and out. Other members
of the Orinda road Runners, Carl's friends showed up to
try and help find him. On May twenty sixth, the
Sisku County Sheriff sent two deputies to the SAR command

(18:55):
post at the Weed Airport to meet with a Sergeant Nicholson,
who was overseeing operations. The purpose of the visit was
to meet up and determine if there was any circumstances
involving the disappearance of Carl that may indicate criminal activity.
Sergeant Nicholson relayed the story of how Carl became lost
on the mountain to the other deputies, and somehow he

(19:17):
has a key detail completely wrong. Sergeant Nicholson told them
that the trio of hikers arrived at the Sierra Club
cabin on May twenty first and stayed the night there.
Then in the morning, Carl went on ahead while the
others broke camp. As we already know, the group stayed
that night at fifty fifty almost seventeen hundred feet higher

(19:38):
on the mountain. Had Carl last been seen at Horse Camp,
that would have changed the search drastically. The question is
why would a sergeant with the Sisku County Sheriff's Office,
a man who was supposedly overseeing search operations from the
Weed Airport, be so wrong about where Carl was last seen.
Remember this is already four days into the search. Most

(20:01):
everyone working on this SAR should have known where Carl
was last seen. I find this part of the report
quite concerning, and before anyone thinks that maybe this is
simply some sort of typo or error made in the
creation of this report, I can almost guarantee you it's not.
Sergeant Nicholson flew over the search area with the deputies

(20:21):
to show them where Carl disappeared. He showed them Horse Camp,
he showed them Lake Helen. He told them that the
search and rescue is concentrating mainly on the wooded area
below where Landers was last seen. The problem is, Carl
did not disappear anywhere near the tree line. Sergeant Nicholson
tells the others that they are considering the idea that

(20:42):
Landers walked down from the Lake Hellen area and got
into the wooded area and then did not make it
to the trailhead at Bunny Flat. Obviously, the problem with
this theory is that if Carl walked back down the
mountain from Lake Helen, he probably would have run into milt.
That didn't happen. So were they under the impression that
Carl summited and came back down. It's hard to know

(21:05):
what they were thinking here. Moving on, Sergeant Nicholson reported
that he talked to the forest service employee who thought
he remembered talking to Karl at the Lake Helen area,
but was not positive that it was him. The employee
said that he directed the man to the easiest route
to the top of the mountain, and he did not
watch to see what route the man took. Sergeant Nicholson

(21:27):
told the other deputies that Milton Berry were currently hiking
on the mountain looking for Carl, and that he had
no reason to believe they were involved in any kind
of foul play. After their evaluation, the deputies also made
the same assessment. No foul play detected interviews were conducted
on May twenty eighth as a way to help positively

(21:48):
rule out any possibility of foul play. Their first interview
was with Carl's wife, Bobby Landers, at the Weed Rest area.
They informed her at the time that they had no
reason to suspect foul play. They asked her some personal
questions that are typical of this kind of situation. How
long had she been married to Carl forty four years?

(22:08):
Had there ever been any affairs during their marriage? No?
Were they having any financial difficulties? No. Did Carl have
any enemies or any problems with anyone? No, one both counts.
They asked Bobby if Carl was physically fit and all
right before going on this trip, and she said that
he told her he wasn't feeling one hundred percent, but

(22:29):
he was going anyway. She said that her husband was stubborn,
independent and hard headed at times, and when he makes
up his mind to do something, he's going to do it.
Detectives then talked to Carl's daughter in law. They asked
her the same questions and they got the same answers.
She also said that Carl was a great person, and
he seemed to be liked by everyone. She couldn't think

(22:50):
of anything going on in his life that would make
this into a criminal matter. They moved on to Carl's
daughter and again got the same answers. She said that
Carl was in great shape and he worked out all
the time. She said that he seemed to be happy.
Both of her parents were involved in their community and
were very well liked. On May twenty ninth, detectives met

(23:11):
with Barry Gilmour and Milt Gains, where they heard the
details of the hike and how Carl disappeared. Both men
said they knew of no financial problems, affairs, or enemies
in Carl's life. They said everyone liked Carl. They talked
about Carl's stubbornness a bit, about how he could become
argumentative and lose control for a short time and then

(23:32):
everything would be fine. They said that this was always
verbal and never anything physical, especially when it came to
climbing Shasta. He was just very determined to do what
he set out to do. Milt said that he was
initially very hesitant about calling the sheriff to get asar started.
He said that two years ago Carl was hiking with
others in Monterey County. As was typical, Carl started lagging

(23:57):
behind and the others told him they would meet him
at the time top or on the way back down.
They told Carl to stay on the trail and not
to get off of it. Eventually, the others made it
all the way back to the car without seeing Carl,
a situation very reminiscent of what happened on Mount Shasta.
In that situation, search and rescue was called in to

(24:18):
look for Carl. The team arrived in the area and
as they were gearing up to search for Carl, he
popped out of the woods, hot and dehydrated. They apparently
put him in a dehydration tank, which Carl was very
unhappy with. This incident was in the back of Milt's
mind after Carl disappeared on Mount Shasta. Would he just
pop out of somewhere? Was he really truly lost? Eventually,

(24:42):
Milt made the decision to call the Sheriff's department and
start the search. Detectives asked the men if they thought
that anyone could have done anything to Carl, and they
said no. Both men said that the area is so
wide open that there were so many people on the mountain,
someone would have had to have seen something. With all
of the people coming and going constantly, someone would have

(25:03):
noticed Carl being attacked on the mountain. Milt Gains would
later say that whatever happened to Carl, it was beyond
his understanding. Detectives note that both Barry and Milt seemed
very concerned and upset about their friend during the interview,
with both of them feeling a great deal of responsibility
for Carl being missing. On May thirtieth, a week into

(25:25):
the search, members of the Siskiou County Sheriffs were telling
newspapers that there was still a high probability that Carl
could be okay. He had minimal food with him, and
they thought that water would not be a problem with
all the snow on the mountain. Lightning, storms and rain
had hit the mountain that weekend and delayed search activities,
but seventy people showed up to continue the search, along

(25:47):
with air support via helicopter flyovers. The search extended far
outside the location where Carl was last seen, either because
there was confusion about his last known location or because
there was simply nowhere el else to check. These areas
included Cascade, Gulch Sand Flat and McBride Springs. All areas

(26:07):
are below the tree line. By June first, search coordinator
Grizz Adams told newspapers everyone who has looked at this
search and evaluated it has been amazed at what a
massive effort we've gotten together here and we've still been
unable to find one clue to link him to being
in the area. Earlier in the search, Griz had taken

(26:28):
a team of searchers to the top of the mountain
by helicopter. They got out and all went down different
routes just to make sure every way off the mountain
was covered. It was a last ditch effort to try
and find something, but nothing came of it. On June third,
nineteen ninety nine, the search for Carl was officially called off.

(26:49):
A spokesman for the Siskiyou County Sheriff said, we've just
looked everywhere we can look, and we just don't know
where else to look. By November sixth, in the year
two thousand, with no further clues as to the whereabouts
of Carl Landers, the case was put on inactive disposition.
The Sheriff's department notes that it has conducted numerous additional

(27:10):
search and rescue operations in the Landers Search area since
his disappearance, but none has ever had any success or
yielded any clues as to his disappearance. Now, twenty five
years later, nothing has changed. It would seem Carl never
left the mountain. One thing I'd like to note is
that Carl was not the first person to disappear on

(27:32):
the mountain like this. In July of nineteen sixty five,
an eighty year old mountaineer named John Neza was climbing
Mount Shasta. This was nothing unusual, really, as Neza had
climbed and summited Mount Shasta over forty times. It's fair
to say that he knew the mountain like the back
of his own hand. Anyway, it was July seventeenth, and

(27:53):
Neza was climbing alone. He left much of his equipment
at the Sierra Club cabin, which is not unusual, as
many people expect to summit and be back at horse
camp at the same day. Apparently, the only things he
took with him were a bottle of wine, whiskey, and
fried chicken. Everything the body needs. Also keep in mind

(28:13):
that this is July, where there would be only a
fraction of the snow that Carl experienced on his climb.
Neza was last seen at Lake Helen, and after that
he simply disappeared. A search was started after he failed
to pick up his equipment from horse camp. The search
was unsuccessful and the only possible clues were buzzards circling

(28:33):
the mountain in the Red Banks area just above Lake Helen.
Two snow slides were also discovered in the area, but
what relevance they had to Neza was uncertain. The point
is John Nezza was never found. His body is likely
still up on the mountain to this day. He was
an older gentleman like Carl. He had way more experience

(28:54):
than Carl when it came to climbing, especially on Shasta,
and he disappeared in the same area as Carl, an
area where there really is nowhere to disappear. In reality,
it's pretty uncommon for people to just vanish without a
trace on Mount Shasta. Quite a few people die on
the mountain, and they almost always die in the same way,

(29:15):
tripping and falling down the steep slopes of the mountain
until they are killed from the blunt force trauma. I
can give you countless cases of this exact type of incident.
Make no mistake, the mountain is dangerous in winter, it's
slick and icy in the summer. The rocks on the
mountain are so loose it's easy to slip and fall,
and it only takes one slip. The mountain is so

(29:38):
steep that once you get off balance and fall, it's
probably over for you. But in pretty much all these
cases the bodies are found. There's only so many places
a body can fall with the complete lack of crevasses
in the Avalanche Gulch area, and if you're wearing brightly
colored clothing, it should be easy to find amongst the
white snow of the mountain, or in the su summertime,

(30:00):
easy to spot amongst the gray rocks. So how did
two men, both who were last seen in the Avalanche
Gulch area disappear without a trace. Perhaps the most baffling
part of the Carl Landers case comes when you really
understand the location where he disappeared. The reality of this
situation is best viewed from above. The way to Lake

(30:22):
Helen from fifty to fifty is pretty clear in terms
of sight lines. You're going from one outcropping to the
next Always keep in mind that Carl was not feeling
well and moving extremely slow. His hiking partners were easily
outpacing him. We know that Carl left fifty to fifty
some time between nine and nine forty five am. Let's

(30:44):
give him the best head start we can and say
he left around nine As Milt said, he would walk
five steps and rest. He was moving very slow. Milt
didn't start up the mountain until around ten am. When
he did, he quickly overtook Barry, who at a fifteen
minute head start, So Milt could move pretty fast. How

(31:04):
far could Carl have got with his one hour head start.
He's moving at a snail's pace. He's not feeling well.
Carl had to go up a steep nine hundred feet
in elevation. There is likely no way he could have
done this before Milt caught up to him. And even
if Carl could do it, he knew that he needed
to stop and wait at Lake Helen, and wouldn't he

(31:26):
have needed a break by that point. None of it
really makes any sense when you look at it. I
was in the Shasta Trinity National Forest in twenty twenty
three when I was filming for the Robot Grandma case.
I was right in the shadow of Mount Shasta. While
this case is better understood by looking at photographs from
the air, I couldn't help it but try and attempt

(31:47):
this same hike that Carl did. I wanted to see
this area. I wanted to better understand what it looked like,
and also better understand the difficulty involved. The journey ahead
was not only immensely exhausting, but one of the more
memorable hiking experiences I've ever had. Like Carl, I set

(32:27):
out from the town of Mount Shasta, driving up the
highway to Bunny Flat parking lot. There's definitely an ominous
feeling of excitement as you approach this mountain, this place
with so much strange lore. Initially, my plans were to
hike up to fifty to fifty and then come back
down and stay the night in horse Camp, all in
the same day. I changed this plan the night before, however,

(32:50):
and decided that instead I would hike to horse Camp
in the afternoon on the first day, hang around the
area and film stuff, get a good night's rest, and
hike up to fifty to fifty in the morning on
the second day, and then back down to Bunny Flat
and leave. I chose to split it up this way
so I wouldn't be completely exhausted by the time I

(33:11):
got up to fifty to fifty and needed to film.
Sometimes when I'm tired, the last thing in the world
I want to do is talk at a camera. It
was a great feeling arriving at Bunny Flat. Staring up
at the mountain. I could see my goal, as both
fifty to fifty and Lake Helen are easy to spot.
It was the peak of summer and very hot, but
the trail through the forest brought the occasional shady respite.

(33:34):
I have to admit it wasn't long before I could
feel the altitude. I'm a sea level person. I literally
live a couple of miles from the beach, so being
seven thousand feet above that, I could feel it in
my breathing pretty quick. The trick is to just take
your time. I was in no rush. All I had
to do was make it to horse Camp, and I

(33:55):
had plenty of time to do it. It's a funny thing, though,
the difference between someone who lives at sea level and
someone who clearly lives in the area. I say this
because as I was huffing and puffing along the trail.
I had one guy come up behind me, no backpack,
and he was casually jogging up the trail like he
was just floating on clouds. He was so quick that

(34:18):
he passed me and disappeared in the trees before I
even decided whether I was witnessing a real event. It's
clear this guy did this rather often, and he was
attuned to this elevation. He seemed to just go to
horse camp and then come back, because I saw him
effortlessly running back down before I had even made it
to the camp. I just shook my head as he

(34:39):
bounced along, even with altitude acclamation. What this man was
doing was very impressive, and my hat's off.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
To you, sir.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
First observation. It's a little harder to hike here than
it is other places. I was expecting that I live
at sea level right now. We're heading up to about
eight thousand feet and things get a little more difficult

(35:09):
once you get up that high. But it's an absolutely
gorgeous trail, and I am looking forward to continuing on.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Now.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Much you see so far on the trail, but I'm
almost a horse camp, just taking it slow, keep on going.
But the forest zer are great looking forward to the
fresh spring water they got there.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
But uh.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Is as difficult as I heard it was. I carried

(36:27):
on with my journey, eventually arriving at Horse Camp, which
is an absolutely incredible place. There's no denying the energy
of this location. Something just feels kind of special about it.
The view of the mountain, the old cabin, the fresh
spring water, the dead silence of the area. It's quite
a place. The water there is about as fresh and

(36:48):
clean as you can get. They say it grants you
some special benefits, but I don't know that it really
worked for me. I set up camp in the woods
around the cabin, along with a number of other climbers
who had plans to summit in the morning. All right,

(37:11):
let's take a look at this, uh historic cabin, which
is really neat. I got a really cool door. This

(38:01):
is certainly one of the cooler things. I mean, I
love historic places like this. The Sierra Club owns and
maintains this cabin, and for five dollars a night you
can camp out around here, which is what I plan

(38:21):
on doing.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
And.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Probably a little bit before dawn, start heading up towards
fifty to fifty see how far I can get trying
to beat the heat of the day, and given that
we just went through the Bybee Creek incident, as i'll
call it, and was also down at McCleod and the

(38:50):
falls doing the Robot Grandma thing. So it's coming on
a tail end of a lot of ikes. So I'm
not going to push it you hard tomorrow. I'm just
gonna see how far I can get to fifty to fifty.
Maybe I can make it, maybe I won't. I'll get
you some good footage as all, that's for sure, and
looking forward to that looks pretty intimidating. I'll have to

(39:13):
show you some video of the mountain. Well, I've had

(39:44):
a bit of a break, which feels better, but believe
it or not, you can actually see fifty to fifty
up there. Looks closer than it is, though. This is
actually a really nice area to camping here. Resting up
and following in the tracks of Carl Landers, I'll tell

(40:08):
you one thing. For a guy his age, he must
have been super fit, because this is by no means
an easy hike, especially for a sea level person like myself.

(40:35):
Another thing to add is that if you're on the mountain.
Here this is basically the last stop for a bathroom.
They have a composting toilet here at Horse Camp. It's
actually nicer than most bathrooms at any Forest Service campground,

(40:57):
so good on the Sierra Club. Other than that, it's
just a great.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Place to stop. Lots of wildlife.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Around here, and I can imagine Carl and his buddies
were probably pretty comfortable at this point. But as we know,
the altitude started getting Carl a bit. He had to
start taking medication for it, and by the time he
got up to fifty to fifty he got real bad.

(41:26):
And I can understand how he felt. Altitude does get
to you. You just get tired real quick, way more
than normal. But I guess that comes with climbing mountains.

(42:08):
So night fell on Mount Shasta, and the idea was
to get up early and be on the trail before sunrise. Sadly,
things don't always go according to plan. Well, it's morning

(42:32):
here on Shasta, but not a great morning. Couldn't really
hold any food down this morning, so the plan is
to currently just head.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Up to the tree line. You get some shots of
fifty to fifty.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Beautiful morning on the mountain. Strangely, enough. What's going on
with me is kind of parallels how Carl Anders was
feeling when he was coming up here. Though I'm not
taking diamocks for the altitude, but I'm also not going

(43:40):
to push myself past any point of no return. I
think Carl probably should have stopped and turned back when
he did. That doesn't mean that has anything to do
with his disappearance. The way he was moving, there's no
way he should have just vanished like that, especially in
the snow. But you gotta know when to turn back.

(44:00):
So keep going for a while, see how far I
can get, and that's what we'll do. The moment I
tried to swallow food that morning, I just started dry heaving.
Though I really didn't feel like moving at all, I
decided to at least attempt to get to fifty to fifty. Luckily,
I carry some hard candies on the trail, which didn't

(44:20):
seem to bother me at all. So with a handful
of Jolly ranchers, I set off in search of fifty
to fifty. The trail after horse Camp is truly impressive.
Large stones make up a long stretch of steps that
take you up the mountain. I can't even imagine the
effort that it must have taken to make these steps,
but I was very thankful because walking up them felt

(44:43):
much more comfortable than other parts of the trail. Just

(45:13):
about over a ridgeline here. Hopefully when we get above
it and over it, we'll have a good view of
fifty to fifty wind's gotten pretty bad, it's gotten a
lot colder, and there's a fair amount of snow up
here still late July. Eventually the steps fade away and

(45:37):
you're facing the steep mountain side. The trail here can
be difficult to see. At times. Sometimes I realized I
had walked completely off of it, but would usually find
a way to reconnect to it. The area is dangerously
steep and the rocks are very loose in places. I
quickly realized how people can die on this mountain. One
wrong step, one loose rock, and send you tumbling down

(46:01):
the slopes, and there's no stopping yourself once that happens.
Turning back, I was treated to an increasingly beautiful view
of the surrounding territory. I didn't much enjoy looking down, however,
as it just reminded me of how far I had
to roll if I slipped feeling sick and climbing a
mountain is not a lot of fun. But I took

(46:21):
it slow coral style. I would move up in bursts
and then rest a bit and move up some more.
It was taking a lot longer than I anticipated. Hopefully

(47:03):
you can hear me. It's so windy up here. That
little ledge back there that doesn't have any snow on it,
that's fifty to fifty. It's incredibly steep here and it
does not come across very well on camera. You can
see though that Mount Shasta does not have really any

(47:26):
crevices anywhere for someone to fall and disappear completely. Most
people who die on Mount Shasta die from falling and
they roll down this steep hill and they're found relatively quickly.
Carl Landers has never been found, and so technically he's

(47:47):
still up here somewhere. He went missing, and he was
wearing bright colors. He had a lot of equipment stuff
that doesn't just disappear. Yet he vanished on this slope
here without a trace in the snow where you would
have seen any tracks if he went anywhere. You would

(48:08):
have seen tracks if he rolled down, But there's just nothing.
As you can see, there is just nowhere to go
up here, nowhere to really even hide, even if an
avalanche got Carl Landers once the snow melted as you
can see, and there's no more snow really up here.
There's some minimal snow, but he would have been easily

(48:31):
seen by a helicopter or hiker searcher because of the
bright colors of his jacket. I'll also add that Carl,
being not feeling so well at the time, not too
different from myself. He was moving slow. That's why his

(48:55):
friends had him go on ahead.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
For a minute.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
There was nowhere he could have gone, either left or
right that would have got him out of eyeshot of
any of his friends. He's moving slow. It would take
extreme effort to climb bridges on either side of fifty
to fifty. That's the one on the left, that's the

(49:19):
one on the right. Well, I made a promise to myself.

(50:24):
I'd started heading back when the sun crested that ridge
behind me, because it's gonna get boiling hot out here.
And the main goal of doing this was just to
show you what the ground looks like out here. How
there's just there's nowhere for someone to hide if they fell.
There's no one to really go off trail, because especially

(50:48):
someone who's feeling weak at the time, really just doesn't
make any sense. And you know, you can see fifty
to fifty and Helen Lake from satellite images, but it
really gives you a different point of view to be
on the ground and just look at how desolate it is.

(51:08):
There's no crevices here, there's nowhere to fall into. Car
Landers disappeared on this mountain, almost in this spot where
I'm at right now, and he's never been seen again.
His gear has never been found, No one ever spotted
any colors. They searched up and down this mountain. Where
could he have gone? It just doesn't make any sense. Well,

(52:06):
it's already starting to get hot out here, so I've
exchanged a thick flannel for a lighter one. You got
to stick to the uniform when you got one, as
much as a part of me wants to keep going.
But have you not eaten anything this morning? Probably because

(52:28):
the altitude, And just discovered that my camelback is leaking
as I walk, not a good sign. I tend to
like to have water, especially on a long kind of
dangerous hike. So all indications are that I should just
start heading back. There's not really much more to see.

(52:51):
The higher up you go, the more snow there is,
but none of it looks really any different than what
you're about to see around me. Lots of rocks to
slip on. That's how people die here. You slip on
one of these because they're all very loose, and then

(53:13):
you fall and you start tumbling because it is so steep.
I wish I could say that maybe that's what happened
to Carl.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
But.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
I just don't think so. I think he would have
been found. What did happen to him?

Speaker 2 (53:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
But it's amazing to come here. As far as hikes go,
this is actually way better than Bybee Creek, which might
not mean much if I haven't released that video by
the time I released this one, but boy, that hike
sucked anyway. I'm going to begin heading back down as uh,

(53:58):
there's no point being here in longer, so I'll see
you back at the bottom. After I started heading back
down the mountain, I stopped and started heading back up again.
I don't like not achieving my goals either, regardless of
how I'm feeling. I had to stop myself there and
recognize that what I was doing was the same thing
that had gotten other people killed. And I was also

(54:21):
going against the advice I give on this channel, don't
take unnecessary risks in dangerous places. But when you're on
the ground, you can get into this. Just keep pushing mindset.
There was no real reason for me to do this.
Say I made it to fifty to fifty, What would
that do for me. I'd get more footage of the
same terrain I'd been getting all day. There really was

(54:43):
no benefit to pushing it, but I still wanted to
do it, just to say that I did. After this realization,
I began heading down for good, though I'd be lying
if I said I wasn't extremely disappointed to do it.

(55:34):
The sun hasn't even been out that long and it's
already very hot. It's like that moment you realize you
made the right decision, because for a moment there I
was heading down actually turned back started heading back up

(55:55):
for about one hundred feet because I thought, we're so
close to Lake Helen get more shots of that. You know,
sometimes you just gotta listen to what your body and
the surroundings are telling you. And the sun is hot,
haven't eaten today, running low on water, running low on

(56:18):
battery for this camera, they already got the shots. I
wanted a fifty to fifty. But you know, people that
hike or even climb mountains, I think that's a part
of their thing, you know, they just want to keep pushing.
You want to push through it, and I think Carl

(56:40):
was that way, and it's quite clear he was after
hearing what his friends said who were on the on
the climb with him, that even though he was sick
and moving slow, he wanted to keep going. But it
doesn't always end well when you do that.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
So.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
You gotta be careful. And even coming down off this
mountain is so steep you gotta watch every step. H

(58:19):
Oh made it back to horse camp. I was able
to refill water, and gosh, I'm glad I'm not still
heading upwards in this heat because it gets rough head
and downs fairly easy, except it's dangerous. It's just so

(58:45):
many loose rocks. It's always interesting following in the footsteps
of people who disappeared in areas like this and Coral.
It's one I'll never be able to wrap my head
around unless he's found one day. But I don't see
how he could be After getting off the mountain and

(59:24):
feeling absolutely exhausted, I was really looking forward to some
RESTful sleep at a local campground, so I didn't quite
get to where I wanted. But I think you get
a good idea of what Avalanche Gulch looks like from
the ground. In retrospect, maybe it would have been better
to attempt the climb to fifty to fifty on the
first day rather than camping at elevation. Maybe I'll make

(59:46):
that attempt again someday and train to shoot for Lake Helen.
I do hate having unfinished business. So what are we
dealing with in this case? What could have happened to
Carl Landers that he disappeared on Mount Shasta and has
never been found. We know that he was either altitude
sick or suffering from taking the diamocs. Ultimately, we know

(01:00:07):
that he just had many of the symptoms of altitude sickness.
We know he was moving very slow, stopping every few
steps to catch his breath. I can relate I wasn't
moving much better as I continued moving up the mountain.
You lose your breath real quick if the altitude's getting
to you. We know that he set out from fifty
to fifty with the intention of going to Lake Helen.

(01:00:28):
There is literally nothing between these two areas, no crevices,
no holes. We know the plan was for everyone to
get to Lake Helen and then stop. To reevaluate the situation,
how do you disappear between these two locations? How could
nobody see him? Foul play can't reasonably be a factor

(01:00:49):
in this case either. I mean, this is on a
mountain side. Say someone did kill Carl, what could they
possibly do with the body? At altitude where it's hard
enough to carry your own weight. The chances of people
with bad intentions being this high up on the mountain
are very low, So I feel safe ruling foul play
out right off the bat. And you might even question

(01:01:11):
as friends Milton Berry, but everything I've seen indicates they
were good and loyal friends. I've seen Milt talk about
this case, and even after all these years, it's clear
that this still haunts him greatly. He still feels a
lot of guilt for sending karl On ahead of them.
I'm sure at the time he thought it was the
right thing to do, but it was the decision that

(01:01:33):
set this all in motion. Still I don't see a
world where Milton Berry had anything to do with this either.
What are we left with? Well, Carl could have become
confused and started walking in the wrong direction. Right seems
like a possibility at first, but I can guarantee you
that if you try to walk up and over the
ridges on either side of Avalanche Gulch, then you have

(01:01:55):
made your hike way more difficult. And in fact, I would
venture that it would be nearly impossible for Karl to
have gotten over the ridges on either side of the gulch.
There would also have been footprints in the snow heading
off in completely wrong directions. This would have been an
obvious path to follow for any searchers or even Milt
as he made his way up. I don't know that

(01:02:17):
Karl could have gotten anywhere near these ridges, given the
state he was in. Even if he tried, I would
be fairly confident that someone would have spotted him moving
off into areas that people don't normally go. This man
could not have gotten very far. On the other hand,
we have Milt. He clearly seems to have been the
fastest in the group. After he left fifty to fifty,

(01:02:40):
he caught up to Barry rather quickly, and he presumably
should have caught up to Carl before long as well.
Remember the day before they were leaving Karl in the dirt,
he was far behind. He wasn't any better the next day.
When you consider where could this slow moving man have
gotten to, and also consider so that none of his

(01:03:00):
brightly colored clothing or equipment has ever been found. Really,
where could he get to that he has disappeared so
completely there was just nowhere for him to go. The
only theories I can really come up with go against
the known facts in this case. And what I mean
is the only way I can come up with a
decent theory is by saying, maybe Carl made it to

(01:03:22):
Lake Helen faster than anyone thought possible and then kept
going even though that wasn't part of the plan. Afterwards,
he would have gone up the hardest route to the
summit that nobody else was doing. Obviously, Milt said he
thought he saw someone that was moving like Carl, far
ahead on the difficult path, but he couldn't catch up

(01:03:43):
with the man. Say that was Carl. If he got
up there that far, perhaps he collapsed, slipped and fell
down towards an area of the mountain that no searchers
could get to. But that theory has a lot of issues. One,
we know that there was an agreement to get to
Lake hell and Wait. We could overcome this problem by
acknowledging that Carl was desperate to complete this climb. He

(01:04:07):
mentioned that this was his second attempt and he wasn't
going to fail again. He said that this was the
last time he would be able to do it. If
he was afraid that Milton Berry would get to Lake
Kelen and abort the climb, maybe he would decide to
push on ahead on his own. Carl appears to have
been an individual stubborn enough to try something like that.

(01:04:28):
The main problem with this theory is that Carl would
have had to somehow, in some way start moving faster,
like quite a bit faster. He would have had to
start moving a lot faster than even Milt I mean,
these guys expected to catch up to him at Lake
Helen or before. Keep in mind, this is the same
Carl who couldn't even make it to fifty to fifty

(01:04:50):
the day before. He told the passer by he needed help,
and Milton Berry descended in order to assist Carl to
fifty to fifty, so the idea that Karl could even
make it to Lake Helen seems a bit iffy. But
when Milt gets to Lake Helen, the only possible person
that could be Carl is still way ahead of him
and high up on the mountain. That means Carl didn't

(01:05:12):
stop at Lake Helen to rest for any substantial period
of time. Could that person moving slowly up the difficult
route on the mountain have been Carl? I mean, who knows.
Milt didn't think so. In the end, he said the
man was too far ahead and the tracks appeared to
link up with another group. The ranger up there thought
that he might have talked to a man that was Carl,

(01:05:34):
but he wasn't sure. He showed the man the easy
route to get up the mountain. If it was Carl,
he must have mistaken the hard route for the easy one.
It's possible because obviously he wasn't feeling well, but it
would only have slowed him down more. Is this a
possible explanation for what happened to Carl? Maybe it may

(01:05:55):
be a very remote possibility. But maybe the thing is,
I don't really like it as a theory for it
to be real. Carl would have had to gain the
craziest second wind I could imagine. I just think about
my experience hiking up that mountain and how slow I
was moving. I'm in pretty good shape, but the altitude
just takes it away from you. If someone told me

(01:06:17):
I had two hours to try and get up in
that area, I don't think there's any way I could
have done it. I felt like the energy was just
sucked out of me. I don't think I could have
if my life depended on it. Then I think of
Carl being essentially in the same boat. How could he
have gotten so far ahead even with his head start.
I was able to get in touch with Grizz Adams.

(01:06:40):
He was the coordinator in this search, and I believe
he did everything possible to try and find Carl. They
searched every route on the mountain. His brightly colored clothing
should have stood out. I asked Grizz a number of questions,
most of them he didn't answer, but mainly I wanted
to know if he had ever developed any theories as
to what happened to Carl. Here is his response. Yes,

(01:07:03):
it is a puzzling case. I look out my living
room window at Mount Shasta every day and think about
the many calls we had.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
I have not developed any theories pertaining to this search.
What I have learned is that people go missing and
are never found. Stuff happens. Some questions don't have answers.
I've been waiting for his equipment to be found, but
nothing has ever been found that was linked to Carl.
I'm also waiting to see something strange and bizarre occurring

(01:07:32):
on the mountain, you know, alien ships, side of mountain
opens up, et cetera. I have never said I thought
he could be in the mountain. I always hoped he
was in the Bahamas sipping pina coladas. Also, my thoughts
have always been for the family and friends. This was
life changing for all of them as well. It's clear

(01:07:53):
that even a man as experienced as Griz is stumped
by this incident. I don't know if he's simply be
facetious or not, but he also seems to be open
to considering paranormal explanations. It's something I sometimes think about
as well when it comes to this case. Anytime someone
asks me what I think the strangest missing person's case is,

(01:08:14):
my mind always tends to think of Carl. Sure there
are others, but Carl's always has stuck out in my mind.
I don't have any specific paranormal theory when it comes
to this case. I'm just baffled by it. People have
postulated that maybe he was swallowed up by the mountain,
which I think essentially means he fell into some portal

(01:08:34):
or space time tear. I don't know. Maybe the snow
on the mountain has melted and reformed many times since
Carl disappeared, and nobody has ever spotted that jacket against
the gray and white backdrop. Some people say that beings
called Limurians live in the mountain and they can open
up doorways that people can walk or fall into. I

(01:08:56):
don't know about that either. The Limurian thing has become
as commercialized as Bigfoot. In the towns around Mount Shasta.
You can get yourself La Murray in anything all the
way down to lemurrayan bubblegum. That doesn't necessarily mean the
Lemurian thing has no merit, but obviously there's a financial
incentive to keep the legend alive. So what happened to

(01:09:18):
Karl Landers? I really got no idea. I presented what
is pretty much my only theory, and I don't really
like it that much. Deep down, I don't think Carl
could have made it past Leake Helen in the timeframe
we're talking about, but I accept I could be wrong.
Maybe there is some way he got up past the
Heart and the Red Banks, but I have a real

(01:09:40):
hard time believing it. Something happened to Carl Landers on
the mountain that day. Unfortunately. I think this might be
one of those mysteries that never get solved. I mean,
John Neza disappeared in practically the same spot and nobody's
found him in sixty years. Maybe Griz Adams is right.
Some question really don't have answers. Anyway, leave your theories

(01:10:04):
in the comments below, and until next time, thanks for watching.