The Naked TRUTH - Nick Pope Pt_ 2

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, I'm I'm well, ride a real mine and welcome

(00:33):
to the Naked Truth and now your host Bridget bar Clash.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Good evening, guys, and a very good early morning here
in England. As I always says, it's one, I am
here for me. Welcome to the Naked Truth on an
X Radio. And my guest tonight is Nick Pope. Now
I don't think he really need any explanation and any
bios read. But for those that haven't come across Nick,
which come on please. Nick was a part of the

(01:16):
British government UFO project from ninety one to ninety four
and has researched and investigated many alien and UFO abductions,
including myself. So Nick works on Ancient Aliens Live, has
done and produced lots of TV shows and has been
a part of so many documentaries. He is super, super popular.

(01:38):
He is the real fox Molder and Nick and me
started our journey together twenty eight years ago when he
helped me with my case and has still helping me
with my case and I'm forever, ever grateful to him.
So I'm just going to lead in Nick Pope. Hello, Nick, Hello,

(02:02):
my friend.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, connect with you.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, this is our part too. So you actually was
on my very very first podcast for here for the
on Next Radio and because it was our introduction of
how we met and my experiences and you taking me
to Bud Hopkins in New York and doing hypnosis. So
you know, it's twenty eight years Nick, quite something.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah, time flies, of course. I was just recently in
New York City for a year and actually at one
point I walked down Now I don't have it in
front of me, but I, off the top of my
head want to say it was West sixteenth Street where
Bud lived and it's now apartments. The old brownstone is gone, so.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
You know, yeh, well we shaid, well, we had actually
amazing times in New York. Actually it was absolutely one.
But yeah, for you to be living there for a
year with Elizabeth was must have well, must have been. Well,
it's an experience in itself, and obviously you're right opposite
the Empire state and living the full life whilst doing

(03:14):
your ancient alien's life here, there and everywhere. And that's
hugely successful. Well done, huge, well done to you.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Thanks. Yeah, I mean, obviously the TV show has been
going for about twenty seasons or whatever it is there
are different ways accounting them. But we've been doing the
live show since May twenty twenty two. Started off just
doing four shows as a trial to see how it worked.
People loved it, and I think we've done over seventy

(03:43):
now and I just came back. We did three shows
in Florida just after the hurricanes, actually Helene and Milton,
so we weren't even sure that we were going to
get there, but we reached out to the local venues.
They reached out to the local community said look, you know,
we want to be respectful of what you'd like to do.

(04:04):
Do you come or not come? And they said, please
have them come. We're you know, we got hit, but
we're rebuilding. We want a little bit of fun and
something to to really bring a bit of joy to
our lives. Florida is hugely strong and resilient. But yeah,
we did a show in Orlando showing Fort Lauderdale and

(04:26):
are showing clear Water and clear Water had been hit
hardest of the three.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
So as an audience wise, what is the audience size?

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Oh, my goodness, it varies according to the menu. Yeah, absolutely,
we've had. The lowest we've had recently has been about
I don't know, six hundred something like that the highest, yes, oh,
absolutely highest, probably around I don't know, between eighteen hundred

(04:57):
and two thousand. Lots of all houses. I mean, obviously
some of the some of the venues you know, don't
don't have the capacity. And if you fill a venue
of like I don't know, eight nine hundred, one thousand,
very often will sell those out. And a full house
just has a unique energy of its own, right, buzzing,

(05:19):
and people are really up for it, and we have
fun with it too. It's it's mainly to educate, in
form and entertain.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
I see said that sentence a few times, excusy. So
now well it's now good for you to be home
on you know, on your home turf until you go
off again. And obviously I know that, you know, thank
you again for doing tonight's interview. But I know that
you're you know, you're inundated with in you know, doing

(05:50):
radio shows and other guest appearances.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yes, you know. I I get so many requests. I
have to turn most of them down. But of course
how can we No, how could I turn down an
old friend? So exactly, yeah, no, happy to be back
on the show. But as you say, I'm here for
a few days, then I'm off again. I've got a

(06:15):
couple of conferences coming up, some more filming for the
next season of Ancient Aliens we've been renewed, of course,
and then the next run of Ancient Aliens Live shows
is I think we've got four shows in first week
of December. I think there were. I mean, let's see Illinois, Wisconsin. Anyway,

(06:39):
there's a website Ancient Aliens Live Tour dot com. You
can what we're up to and come and see us.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Okay, well, well why don't you come and see us
here in England? Is there is there any news for that?
Can you do that?

Speaker 3 (06:54):
We would love to come to the UK. We would
love to take this all around the world. I mean,
every time we post the venues of our new show,
as people say, come to England, come to Canada, come
to Australia.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
You know.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Obviously taking a show internationally is more difficult, the logistics
and things. But we would love to come to the UK,
and I really hope that we will make it happen.
I mean, people conversations take place about this sort of
thing all the time, so let's see.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
It would be absolutely bonkers if you didn't considering you know,
you are the man from the Ministry of Defense and
you're here in England, so you know you have to
bring it back to back home, really, don't you.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yes, yes, absolutely, you owe it.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
To yourself and many others over here. So obviously there's
quite a few documentaries coming out at the moment. So
you've got Netflix is doing one Alien with George Napp,
and James Fox is doing a docum mentory called The Program.
Were you involved with any of those?

Speaker 3 (08:05):
I was involved with the program, James. I came back
to the UK actually as you know speaking, Yeah, we
did the Awakening conference in Manchester and then James of
course was a speaker there. Got the Lifetime Achievement Awards.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
I know, I broke my I broke my phone. I
got up and applauded and my phone smashed on the floor,
I remember, right, but.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, ritually deserved award. And while I was there in
the margins of that conference, we slipped off, found a
suitable filming venue and I recorded something. So I'm going
to talking to Elvin incident the Great photograph case. Yeah,

(08:55):
so expect that. I know he's king to various distributors
and I'm not sure he has an exact release date yet,
but the movie is called The Program and it's going
to be great, yeah, as his programs.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, absolutely, So this is sort of like to get
you back here. It would be you know, let's say
twenty eight years ago when we were, when we used
to be in our curries and going to the crystal
shop in Wimbledon and having a laugh. Back in the days,
I didn't foresee it was going to go this way.
I don't know if you foresaw it was going to

(09:37):
go this way. And we had a little term for it,
didn't we. Do you want to say what our little
term was for, like all the crystal stuff?

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Oh, no, you can say it.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Oh we used to call it ying tong, didn't We
sort of like yingtong Ying tong so because it was
all very love and light. But actually, right now, the
diversity of eupology now you do obviously have the old channelers,
you have the new channelers. You have the experiences that
are talking very openly and wanting to disclose a lot

(10:10):
more that has happened to themselves. I, as you know,
have held a lot of my things back. But I
feel now that there is a time where I feel
more comfortable to talk about, you know, not just the
La Freeway and not just about you know, it's like
like when we went to Bud Hopkins and we did
the hypnosis. I want to be able to talk about

(10:30):
that and to you know, Dolores's hypnosis. And you know,
so now I feel, because other people are doing it,
I feel it's kind of the right time. So it
isn't so ying tong ying tong like we used to
call it.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
It's not. And you're right to say that uphology is
like a very I hate to use this phrase, but
a broad church. There's just the age wing, the channeling,
the space brothers and space as are coming here to
save humanity. And then there's a kind of almost like

(11:05):
the dark side to it all very much. And that's
you know, don't take this the wrong way. But me,
obviously I'm being ex government. I'm more involved and interested
in the defense, national security, and safety of flight implications
of this. The UFOs tracked on satella at satellite and

(11:29):
picked up on radar those those sorts of things, and
and so obviously there is this new age community and
I've I've spoken many times in fact earlier this year
at the Ozark Mountain UFO conference, which which of course
was always Dolores Can.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, So so I'm familiar with with both sides, if
I can call it that, but obviously in terms of
my own knowledge and experience, I tend to speak more
to the government side, and just just to kind of
emphasize that point. As you can probably tell, maybe I

(12:12):
should have turned the light on, but the sun is
setting here, so I'm.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Getting the dark side.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
By the end of this interview, I'm going to be
a real life man in black.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well that's another story in itself, but yeah, what times
are over there? You're you're not You're like, well, are
you five six o'clock?

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yes, if you're five fifteen here, But the sun's sun's
just gone down, And even since we've begun this interview,
I can tell that the light's dropped. But you know,
and I wasn't looking at the sunset time, so I
didn't bother breaking out the ring light. But yeah, I

(12:55):
have got my you I'm mean and moody and doctor.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, I think if anyone watches part one that we did,
you could barely see me. You know. It's like I
had nothing set up, but now I've obviously geared up
for it. So obviously, like I say, thirty years ago,
it was I mean, it wasn't totally different, Funny enough.
I spoke to Brenda Butler a couple of weeks ago
on the phone and she's going to be coming on,

(13:22):
which is really really nice. And I don't think it
really has changed except for that people are more honest
and more open and are willing to speak now because
it takes It's a bit like ripple effect. It takes
someone to say something to be able to say, you
know what, like for me, actually I want to say

(13:43):
a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
Well, I think two things have fundamentally changed. You're right,
a lot has stayed the same, and sometimes one feels
in this subject that we're just reinventing the wheel. I
think have fundamentally changed. First, we are now in absolutely
twenty four to seven news cycle, and with social media,

(14:09):
if a story breaks, it's out there in an instant.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
You know, people talk about UFO Twitter now, I guess
UFO X. But something happens and everyone knows about it
almost within an incident. So that's one thing. The second
thing that's changed, of course, is that in the United
States we are in a fundamentally different environment. I mean,
of course, when you and I first met and discussed

(14:35):
all this, the official position of the US government was
nobody's interested in UFOs anymore. Hasn't been a program since
the end of sixty nine when Project Bluebook closed. Now
we know about a tip and ALLSAP, we know about
the US Navy videos, We've had congressional hearings. There are
more to come. We've had reports from the Office of

(14:57):
the Director of National Intelligence. The Pentagon now has a
unit set up, the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, so
that that's new, that that level of official engagement is new.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
I mean I got in touch with you obviously because
I had a witness support group. But I got in
touch with you because my encounter involved military helicopters and
men in black car you know, in ninety three. And
obviously now you've got the military now have acknowledged you
know that they have craft and beings. I mean, I

(15:35):
don't think I don't think that you know generally people
people within you know, the UAP UFO circle. Obviously, you
know say yeah about bloody time, but you know to
the general other public. No, it's it's it's still dismissed.
But you know, I know still that there would be
a report there for my encounter on the freeway. And

(15:57):
you have been back to where I actually have my
encou which is really quite cool.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, I mean, my goodness, I've stayed there. Actually, I
think I stayed there when I filmed James Fox's previous films.
But I'm in LA every few weeks for filming and
I often drive down the Is it the four or
five or the one I won?

Speaker 2 (16:19):
I can't remember, Well, it's the one on one and
four five, Yeah, so it's the one and one going yeah, Brentwood.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
Yeah, and the old holiday in of course, this is
what we're we're talking about for those people. Yeah, you
know watching who don't know that wonderful old old You know,
every time you see it you sort of think you're
in a James Bond movie back in the sixties or something.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, it is quite iconic and also funny enough, isn't it.
Do you remember Lisa Royal Priest, the channeler, She had
her encounter exactly at the same place as me. I
think you told me that, and you put me in
contact with Lisa Goodness. Yes, yeah, yeah, she did right
right at the holiday in as well. So whether it

(17:01):
be a hot spot I don't know, but that was
quite bizarre because yeah, because she's written an author so
many books, and she teaches channeling, she does all of
the yingtong New Age conferences and everything. Yeah, so that
was thirty years ago, so to now, So give us

(17:22):
a sort of like rundown. Let's say last year, obviously
the congressional hearings, A lot had gone on. Now where
do we lie now? Obviously because you've got the politics
and you've got election over in the States coming up.
What are we talking about now?

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Okay, well I'd like to kind of name check. I
guess three things.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Firstly, the election.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
You are going dark. You are going dark now.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Secondly, the rumors, well they're not rumors, the story that
broke about this classified program called Immaculate Constellation. And thirdly,
I want to circle back and and talk again about

(18:14):
the next round of congressional hearings. Why don't I go
and turn Should I go and turn the light on?

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Just so that yeah, then people know that you're there. Yeah, okay,
all a moment that'd be light Yes, there we go.
All right, there we go. Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
Now I'm not so well. I'm now I'm a little
washed out, but I guess better washed out than washed up.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah right, you always give me the lines.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
Gone, Okay, let's let's which order do you want those
in those?

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Let's whichever you think is appropriate.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
Okay, let's start with immaculate constellation. This one's really interesting.
The journalist Michael Shallenberger very well connected. I mean, he's
got I can't remember whether it's a million or a
million and a half followers on X but he's a very,
very bright, hugely well connected individual. He ran a story

(19:24):
in the last few days saying that they've kind of
sources have indicated to him the name of this program.
And of course for years we've heard these rumors about
legacy intelligence community programs on crash retrievals and reverse engineering.
Dave Grush has testified about it under oath in Congress,

(19:47):
but we never had the name of the program. I
even think we wanted to have discussed this. I said,
there are three things that Congress needs if they're going
to find out about an illegal off the book's program.
I said, they need the name of the program, the
agency or company that's running it, and the name of

(20:09):
the director. And armed with those three pieces of information,
Congress can find out an awful lot. But we didn't know.
We didn't know the program name. Then Michael Shallenberger put
it into the public domain that it's Immaculate Constellation.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Great, great operation name. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Well, here's the thing. Usually in with classified programs, the
names are randomly selected. They come off computer. That's so
that you don't inadvertently give away any clues.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
It's the most obvious one, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
It's funny, that's the point. You see this clearly Immaculate
Constellation is not a random name.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Now aised to pick it.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Well, at first you might think that proves that the
whole thing isn't real. But then if you think about it,
if this is an illegal off the books program, the
rule book goes out of the window. And these people
enjoy kind of toying with people. If you look at
some of the patches that space missions and agencies have,

(21:26):
remember the arrow patch with the flying saucer on it,
it's like these people are toying with the public. Immaculate
Constellation clearly not random constellation. The star and the similarity
between immaculate constellation and immaculate conception draws one's attention to religion,

(21:55):
human origins, and dare I say it? Ancient astronaut the
the idea that the old gods created us are watchers.
Now the ancient gods are returning.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Right, So you know you think of even you think
of ancient aliens, you think of the Marvel Universe. And
I don't know if you've even seen the movie, but
if you watch the trailer for the Eternals, that's ancient
astronaut theory.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Okay, so you've got Graham Hancock, haven't you doing yours?
That's just perfect right now doing the ancient alien tool.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
Graham Graham Hancock is yep, his his ancient apocalypse and
back the timeline of human history. A few years ago
mainstream academics were like, no, no, this.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Is doing it. Yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Now we know through science like go back tape in
Turkey that humansations been pushed back from I don't know,
sort of five six, seven thousand years with the Sumerians
through like twelve thousand years old. What's next? What's next?

(23:16):
So anyway, I've gotten a little off topic, but Immaculate
Constellation is obviously like something that a lot of people
are talking about. That leads me very nicely to the
second of the three stories, the next congressional hearing is
it's inconceivable that Congress won't ask about this. Michael Schallenberger

(23:39):
is very well connected. People know that he has very
good sources. Congress has had classified briefings but also open
public hearings that the one I mentioned with David Grush,
but also Ryan Graves and Crave or yea. So Congress

(24:02):
will ask about Immaculate Constellation. And it was thought that
we might get the next congressional hearing on November thirteenth.
That would be the House Oversight Committee. I mean obviously
in the US, in Congress, we have both the Senate

(24:24):
and the House.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
It's about thirty days time.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Then.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yeah, however we and this is the third story. There
is the small matter of arguably the most impactful and
contentious presidential election in the history of the Straits.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah right, yeah, right, in.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
What twelve days as we speak. So I am not
sure that this congressional hearing provisionally originally scheduled for November thirteenth,
is going to take place now it was going to be,
as I say, House Oversight Committee, Nancy Mace I believe

(25:07):
was going to be leading it. We'll see what happens.
But a lot of political commentators believe that the election
is going to be very close. We may have not
all the results in on the night, we may have
legal action again disputed result. So don't be surprised if

(25:31):
the November thirteenth Congressional hearing doesn't go ahead. Having said
that it might, we just don't know.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, right, So what were you saying earlier about Trump
to me, Well, this.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Is the third of the three stories the election.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
Very often people nowadays will ask political candidates where they
stand on the UAP you and if elected, what they
intend to do. A question of UFOs has come up
two or three times previously with President Trump, and his

(26:13):
son raised it in a podcast and Trump talked about Roswell,
He talked about Area fifty one. He said that he
knew a few things but would have to be very
careful about what he disclosed. Tucker Carlson asked him about
it in an interview and it came up again more recently.

(26:37):
So Trump is on the record on this, and he's
dropped a few hint. So we'll have to see Harris,
as far as I know, has not even been asked
about it. If she has, she's certainly not given any
meaningful answer.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Okay, so what what do you what do you propose
then from from Trump that he might know that, considering
obviously he would have been watching the congressional hearings quite
closely then and I didn't realize that his son was
in them into into the UFO.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Well, firstly, of course Trump has been president before, so
I believed that presidents and only presidents get the briefing.
Then then Trump already knows.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Well, all of the presidents have been very very interested,
haven't they.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, yeah, they drop hints and yeah, lest we get
to party political, it's it's something Republicans and Democrats have
dropped hints about. I remember Obama was interviewed by Will
Smith and did a kind of some dropping of hints
and things. Bill Clinton. Yeah, but look, here's the thing. Trump.

(28:02):
Trump is different. Trump is a maverick and a populist
in a way that no other previous president has been.
So if you believe in the deep state, and if
you believe in a decades long conspiracy, Trump is precisely
the candidate who might just blow this wide open in

(28:23):
a way that nobody else could or would.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
No, I agree, Actually, yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
I mean, I don't know how it's going to unfold,
but obviously he's made some statements on it. He's made
some statements on the assassination of JFK. In his first term,
he said he would release some of those records. Then
he walked back just at the very end, releasing all

(28:50):
of them. But now in a recent interview, he said,
you know what, I'll release all the JFK things. And
he did this wonderful quote. He was talking about UFOs,
but as always he has quite a line in comedy.
He said something like, yeah, I've been briefed on this

(29:11):
by US military pilots. He said, you know, taller ones
than Tom Cruise.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, in show Private Eye, little Tom Cruise. Oh bless him.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
So you'll have to see, assuming he's elected, we'll have
to see what Trump does in his second term. We'll
have to see who he appoints as set Death and
as some dn I director of National Intelligence. But in

(29:48):
respect those appointments, Trump is Trump. He could just he
could just decide you know what the heck, I'll put
it out there.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
I hope he does. I hope he doesn't. Mean there
is a massive there is just kicking the cat away
a minute. There isn't you know? There is? You know
everyone's using the world, but it's so true, massive and
wakening right now, and people just thinking, you know what,
we all have right to know, and people just think,
I think when you've got so much in your head

(30:19):
that you know, and he is a loose cannon, you know,
like you say, you know, you know he's capable of
absolutely bloody anything, and it'll work it all in our
favor for everyone that wants disclosure. As much as we
might hate him or not hate him, I like him,
you know, because he's a good trouble maker in a way.

(30:40):
I mean, we've all made mistakes, and he's made mistakes,
but you know, he's a good troublemaker.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Well, people use people in terms of politics. People often
use and politicians people use the phrase disruptive, not not
like an unruly job maker, but in terms of somebody
who's going to not go along with the status quote.
I mean, can you imagine some career bureaucrat briefing President

(31:11):
Trump and then saying, well, now, mister President, of course,
we really shouldn't be releasing this information to the public.
Trump will just turn to that person, give them a
ring lyric and say, right, do what I like?

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, right, I hope he does. I hope I really
truly hope he does.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Right.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
So, Okay, off the I call it. I don't know
if i'llow to say it's not politics, but it begins
with the letter B instead. But off off that subject
for now. Then this year, where have you been? You know?
And obviously and we all know that you've been doing
the ancient Aliens? What else you've been doing? And I
know that you've been to Skinwalker Ranch. That must have

(31:52):
been very interesting. Oh yes, that was Oh how you
said that? Okay? Then I'm on well, flown in by Brandon.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
No, the state of Utah does an event called Phenomicon, okay.
And they recognize the tourist value that that skin Walker
Ranch has, and they recognize the national and international interest
in UFOs and the paranormal. So for the last few

(32:25):
years they've been organizing this thing called Phenomicon.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
It's funny because Utah is heavily Mormon, but yet you
have the spiritual side to it. So it's got the diversity,
hasn't it.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
Well, you have the Native Americans of course.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, right, that's what I'm saying. That's why I mean
the spiritual side to it.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
Tribes like the Navajo and the Utes. I mean, of
course that the Utes. That's where Utah gets its name.
So now and a skin walker.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
And also it's the Bee State. It's the national b state,
isn't it right?

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Yes? But in Native American mythology, skin walker as a
malevolent witch that can shape shift and can put dark
spells on people. So the state of Utah have recognized

(33:16):
the interest in this organized phenomic on my schedule. Previously
didn't work out, but this year it did. Had some
free time and then Travis Taylor said to me, and Travis,
of course, is you know one of the big names

(33:38):
at this event. Travis, Well, look you're coming William Henry
from him.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
I'm the top fan of him.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, And we've toured together, of course for a while, Travis,
before his commitments at the Ranch really ruled it out.
Travis toured with us on Ancient Aliens Live, and he
now has that there is a live show now Skinwalker
Ranch Live. Anyway lost short. Travis said to William Henry

(34:11):
and myself, well, let's get you to the ranch. William
had been there before for an episode of Ancient Aliens.
I hadn't known it, and so I said, yeah, of course,
let's make it happen now. Because of our respective schedules,
we really only had a tiny window to actually do this.

(34:33):
But one afternoon, I think, after one of my talks,
before one of Travis's, in between two of Williams. However,
it panned out. We just piled into a vehicle drove
out there, absolutely amazing. One of the other people who
just happened to be there at the same time, well

(34:53):
he didn't just happen to be, and he was speaking
Jay Stratton. Now, people in relation to the US government's
UFO research and investigation, everyone knows names like Louis Elazondo
from a tip, David Rush, But Jay Stratton was the

(35:18):
former director of the UAP Task Force, so somebody who
sat at very high level in the US intelligence community,
and he was one of the speakers at phenomic On.
He was at Skinwalker Ranch at the same time as
myself and Travis and William Henry. So that was an
interesting experience. I'd met Jay twice before. I think.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
In fact, Nick, is that the event that Micah Hanks
came to and Travis and Micah and all those guys
jammed on stage played music, That.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Is correct, I mean, but yeah, absolutely they have a
band called the.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Hier have its place, doesn't he That's right?

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Yeah, and sings. But Hitchhiker, of course, named after the
effect by which.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
People believe that attachment.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Attaches comes home with you. So yeah, the surreality And
thanks Race for asking, But how surreal is it to
be in this hall a thousand people at the end
of the conference, and out on stage comes the former

(36:39):
director of the u AP Task Force, the former chief
Scientist of the uf AP Task Force, and they start
doing all these A c DC songs and other things.
It's just you couldn't make it up.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Well, it's it adds character, doesn't it. And yeah, and
it actually just shows the he's just you know, he's
just a wonderful person. I think. Yeah, I considerably went
in not knowing and you know, experienced the first time
that he was there. So Nick, cut to the chase.
Did you experience anything there?

Speaker 3 (37:14):
I did not, And so far you.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Can neither confirm or deny? Is that or is that
your answer?

Speaker 3 (37:23):
Nothing? Nothing so far and if if if any hitchhikers
attached themselves, they have yet to manifest, So.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
You had to know how far around skinwalkers did you go? Then?
Did you get go in the truck and just go
around to all of the errors?

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Yeah, we we went around. We went to Homestead too,
We went up Mesa, we went to the triangle. You know,
obviously it was a short visit. But when you when
Travis is your guide, you it's about five one hundred
and fifty acres there and they're doing some amazing things.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, I know they are, So did you do Okay?
So this is sort of like the yingtong thing spiritually
nothing nothing, You didn't feel anything at all?

Speaker 3 (38:15):
No, but no, that's the thing. People say that it
affects different people in different ways. Sometimes. I've heard it
said that the people who get the hitchhikers and the
attachments are the ones who go in very aggressive and say,
you know, I don't believe any of this. Bring it on?

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah right now? Yeah, yes, it's an intention that anything's
going to draw in, isn't it then? At that point?

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, but who knows Look, the whole point about the
paranormal is you doesn't play by the standard rules. So
all I can tell you is that I didn't experience anything.
But plenty of people who I trust implicitly have had real, profound,
deep shocking experiences there.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Can you can you say?

Speaker 3 (39:09):
No, I can't because because I'm.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
Not sure if they've gone publicly.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
Who's gone public and who hasn't, And I would hate
to break your confidence.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Okay, yeah, of course, Okay, all right, okay, so yeah,
we'll just have to wait and see him. Watch on
skin skin Walker's Ranch the TV show. Wow Wow, wow wow. Okay,
So I was half hoping that something would have happened
to you this sort of like you know anything.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
Well, I'm sure it won't be my last visit there,
so if I go back, who knows what will happen
next time. Maybe maybe you go once and nothing happens
and then you get all all kind of blase and
next thing back yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Right, yeah, walking swat with a bit of swagger and
then yeah, okay, So, like I said at the very beginning, obviously,
like we're at the end of a year nearly good god,
I don't know where this year is absolutely gone? But
what what else? What have you sort of like has

(40:14):
blown you away in this year? As in, because obviously
you're a bag of knowledge. You deal with you know,
the military, you deal with, experiences, you deal with, you know, scientists, everything,
What has really blown you away this year that you
just say, oh my god? Really? You know as in
as in how people have you know, stepped forward or

(40:37):
people's not not encounters as such, but you know, just
as in what has what has made you think thinking?
Really we have we are like getting somewhere now.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
I think a couple of things occurred to me. Firstly,
I know that people like Gary Nolan at the Soul
Foundation have been doing a lot of really superb work
or organized one conference, there's another one in November, and
I know people like Carl Nell have spoken there and

(41:14):
I'm sure Carl will be at the November one as well.
So this is again really important top level people, scientists,
retired military intelligence community people speaking out about this because
you know when it was when Loue Alesondo was featured

(41:35):
in the New York Times in December twenty seventeen, I
broke the story about eight it. I think there were
people who said, well, there's this one guy. He's a whistleblower.
You know, do we know he is who he says
he is, did what he said he did. Well, we do,
but there's still this sense that it's just one person. Well,

(41:55):
now we've got Carl Nell. Now we've got David Grush,
Now we've got Sarah gam Now we've got well, Ryan
Graves and Dave Absolutely. Ryan of course runs, amongst other things,

(42:17):
Americans for Safe Aerospace Lobby group doing a lot of
great work with Congress to highlight the safety of flight
implications of UAP. So that's something that's caught my eye.
Something else which has caught my eye is, of course
the continued work that Professor Avi Lobe is doing it

(42:37):
professor of Astrophysics at Harvard University. A few years ago,
it would be inconceivable for top level scientists even speaking
about this, let alone actively working on it. Well, now
we've got people like Avi Lobe, Michie Okaku, a number
of other people. I'm not a scientist, but I am

(43:01):
formally attached to Galileo Project. I think we call it affiliates.
I think it used to be a research affiliate. But
people like Chris Mellen, Lou Alizondo and myself not scientists,
but people whose backgrounds enable us to maybe contribute to
the science team and what the science team are doing.

(43:24):
So that's something. Another thing that's happening is and of
course this is something everyone's talking about, artificial intelligence. One
of the things AI is doing is it's going back
over vast amounts of radio data gathered by the Seti Institute,

(43:47):
and some people believe that AI has identified a number
of potential so called candidate signals I a signal as
opposed to just the background noise of the universe that
are artificial in origin that humans and basic computers looking

(44:09):
at this missed. But AI, with its ability to almost
instantaneously assess and evaluate countless, countless terror bytes or whatever
it's called, of data. So that's something. And the ongoing

(44:33):
rumors that James Webb's Space Telescope has found something maybe
it a techno signature, rumors almost all year that there's
a scientific paper being written up suggesting strong evidence of
a techno signature. And by a techno signature, I don't
mean something that you might say, well, is it biological

(44:56):
or is it geological? Something for example CFC's CFC's can
only be produced in an industrial civilization that's putting pollutants
into the atmosphere, because it's not not a natural way
to do it. So something like that has something been found.
I don't know, but these rumors have been around all year,

(45:18):
and who knows what's going to happen by the end
of the year.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Okay, So I'm going to go back to David Grush
and I'll go back to Ryan then Graves. So with
like Ryan's experiences, where I know that they can't divulge
too much information, and yet there's like experiences, you know,

(45:44):
being very open, open heart and saying about our experiences, why, where,
at what point is there going to be you know,
I'll always say this that the government are going to
be speaking to the experience.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
I had this conversation with Whitley Stroeper fairly recently, and
I said to him, I used the phrase, I said, Whitley,
I think at the moment it's a bridge too far.
I said. These these retired government military and intelligence community people,
they're happy to talk about satellites, They're happy to talk
about Ford looking in for red cameras. They're happy to

(46:24):
talk about pilots seeing and chasing UFOs, and.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
I only say I only say that because you're saying
about that, you know, are picking up a signal. But
it's like, hang on a minute. You know. It's like
when you've got a craft in front of you and
it's letting off a frequency or it's telling you to
go outside and you're communicating with it. You know, it's like,
hang on, why why why aren't these people speaking to
you know, to us.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
Because it's still it's it's it's like the third rail.
It's okay to talk about the UAP when you describe
it in terms of being a defense and national security issue,
because you've always got that get out clause. You can say, well,
maybe it's China or Russia, or maybe it's something else
that we need to look at. It what Congress and

(47:10):
what people like Ryan Graves and others are not prepared
to do it at moment. At the moment, as far
as I know, it's say, let's discuss people who believe
that they've been abducted by aliens and or that they're
receiving telepathic messages or channel it's just they can't go there.

(47:31):
The stigma has gone down, but it's not disappeared and
no one in Congress can yet quite do that. Maybe
in a year or two's time we'll be in that environment,
but we're not there yet.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Yeah, I kind of, in my get.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
Hugely frustrating and disappointing because in a sense, those people
know the data and they're just self censory. I'm sure
they know all about these stories, but they're not going
to get up and say it.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
They're not stories. But yeah, I know what you mean.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, and say it, talk about it on the floor
of Congress.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Well, no, because they get it on open podcasts or
listening in or by you know, by viewing in on you.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
Yeah, they're getting they're getting the information, but they're not
going to put the information out themselves. Because you can
imagine someone like Senator Marco Rubio and we've all seen
him stand up in front of the news cameras and say,
we need to get to the bottom of the UAP

(48:44):
mystery because this could be adversarial technology and there are speeds,
maneuvers and accelerations orders of magnitude above anything we can do.
We need to find out is it China, is it Russia?
Is it something else? And you see right at the
end of that interview, he went for his right exactly.
They can do that. What Rubio is not going to do,

(49:07):
at least not this year, probably not next. It's going
to say, you know, I've been listening to some of
the accounts from people who say that they've been abducted
by aliens. Now they will probably never even use that phrase.
They will dress it up. They will invent new technology
terminology pardon me. And in fact, one of the one

(49:31):
of the thirty eight technical studies done under the your
SAP contract was entitled human interface on read lines. That is,
but they're not going to use phrases like abduction. They're

(49:51):
not going to use phrases like contact. Ye, so watch
out for phrases like human interface with UAP or human effects.
That's about as close as they're getting to it right now.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Well, it's funny because I was next week. I've got
Steve Aspin on, a very good friend of ours that
you know that when we were both at Leeds where
we spoke at Leeds, wasn't it. I spoke with Steve
today and he's on next week, but we were talking, well,
he was talking about like, you know, no one's really
talking about scoop marks anymore. They're talking about obviously in

(50:29):
plants and various things. And Step in his book Out
of Time, he had it analyzed his scoop mark. And
I'd never thought about that because obviously you know that
I've got a scoop mark and I never but never
thought about having it analyzed. But you know, are these
military that are having these experiences because obviously, you know,

(50:52):
we're just saying that they're they're citing reports and what
we get it. Obviously obviously as we know, you know
Robert Sallas, you know, obviously he's he's had contact with
beings and you know he's he was in the in
the Navy, so you.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Know, air Force, I believe.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, because it was at the
nuclear base, wasn't.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
It a yeah, with missiles, That's right?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Sorry, Yeah, So what was I gonna say? Yeah, So
back in the room, as in have any of them,
has anything ever come out in any document that they
have taken, like analysis of scoop marks, implants or anything,

(51:44):
or is that what they talked about in their secret room?

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Then if you read that paper about human effects and
human intercation, and if you read between the lines it's
in there. Look at forest It's well known that some
of the witnesses met with certain ye less intelligence community

(52:08):
personnel involved with with all of this, And I said
to one of those witnesses, I said, look, they're going
to ask you for a blood sample and a DNA sample,
and they can do a lot with that. I said,
you want to give that to them, fine, you know,
but don't get tricked into it. So I said, I said,

(52:29):
if they offer you.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
A cup of coffee, don't take it.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Take the cut out with you.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Yeah right, yeah, no, that's yeah, that's true. Yeah, or
cigarette cigarette outside, Just just take the butt with you.
Yeah right.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
I had that conversation.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
So which one from Rendallsham?

Speaker 3 (52:50):
I'm not sure that I should say, because again I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Oh you're so boring tonight. Okay, that's for the conversation
later then, okay, all right, So well okay, so what
when is this? When is this paper coming out?

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah, okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Go on to John Greenwold's Black Vault website. It's on there.
But heir git's in the Defense Intelligence Agency electronic reading room.
All thirty eight of those Defense intelligence research documents they
called all thirty eight are out there. Watch for the one,
Watch for the one. I can't remember the title offhand,

(53:36):
but you'll know it when you see it. It's human
effect and read the lines. Given the questions you've just
asked me.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Yeah, I just find it really well. I I personally,
I think because obviously this year, I think so much
has happened, you know, from having you know whether it
be like other experiences, and I know that other experiences
are still having experiences. It's kind of speeding up. And
you've you've kind of said it a few times tonight.

(54:05):
You know, in the next couple of years, I foresee,
like in the next five years, it's going to be
a massive something very very different. In the next five years,
I wouldn't feel it brewing. I feel it brewing. Everyone
feels it brewing. But I'll give it like five years
and massive changes and it's a grand like shake up
for everybody, every bloody body.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
Well, if you think of what's happened in the last
five years, yeah, right, we've been If you think of
what a watershed December twenty seventeen, Yeah, with the revelations
about a eight the US Navy videos.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just I think we've only got a
few minutes left. I'm not I think it's yeah, We've
got about a couple of minutes left, right, So Nick,
thank you very very much. Is there anything that you
want to talk about? Ancient alien tools that are coming up?
Everyone can go on live? Do you want to plug?
I will plug your I'll put a link to I

(55:04):
have put a link to your website. And I don't
think you upload anything new really on there. But what
would you to plug.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
My ex formerly known as Twitter, which that's where I
put new stories up. So that's at Nick Pope, m
O D and of course the Ancient Aliens Live Tour
dot com.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Okay, and what what's your future projects?

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Very quickly classified?

Speaker 2 (55:34):
And hey, this is where i'd say the f off.
I'm not I'm so not allowed to say that anymore.
Brace has told.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Me a couple of things coming out. We'll talk about
that another time. Okay, watch watch what I announce on
X in the next few weeks.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
You know, I don't do Twitter. I don't do Twitter
at all, But obviously, is it really all going on
on Twitter?

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Is it all going on on Twitter until the computers
go down? Computer says no, Then we're all buggered. And
it has the beata lepathy. We have to learn. Okay,
I don't know how long we've got is Race Hobs there,
Race Mark calling, Awson coming awsoon? There he goes there,
he's on it, all right, okay, my lovely, all right, listen.

(56:21):
Thank you ever so much guys for listening in, and
thank you Nick for coming back for part two. Check
out Nick on the Ancient Alien Tour, and thank you Nick,
and speak to you in part three very very soon,
all right, love and like two years always Nick, thank
you all right, bye bye bye bye

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Each each