Episode 310 - Christopher Balzano - The Odyssey Files Radio

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wh i.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
I God, God, good evening, Paranormal Community, and thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
For partaking in another episode of The Honesty Files. I'm
your host, Michael O'Neil with me as always, just barely
making it on with thirteen seconds before we go ive
on the air as my cost mister David. Sorry, good evening, Dave, Good.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
Evening, Mike, Good evening, Paranormal Community. That was close.

Speaker 5 (01:45):
When you know what I think happened. I think that
I was working. I was using my work camera for
the last couple.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Of weeks, and you switched back, didn't you.

Speaker 4 (01:53):
Yeah, because I had to go.

Speaker 5 (01:55):
I had to take my work stuff back to work
because I'm working back at the office now. And uh,
I think this camera got a little jealous that it
was sitting on the sidelines and so it didn't want
to respond.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
So anyway, so kind of like the difference again.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Now between Thor's storm Storm Chaser whatever the hell it is,
and it's my Jore whatever hammer that was jealous that
he got a new one right and wanted to I
want to give you some attitude.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
Yep. I think that's what happened. That's what I'm going
with anyway.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
That's fair.

Speaker 5 (02:33):
Yeah, well, got out to the Vikings, who won a
preseason game after ten straight preseason losses.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
In a row, and so it begins.

Speaker 4 (02:44):
Yeah, the season has begun.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
Maybe everywhere, every every Sunday, it's gonna be it was
a great win today, or it's gonna be well, you know,
they came close, but they lost it in the last
you know, thirty seconds.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
Yeah, we'll see. Hopefully it's going to be a whole
lot on the former up the ladder.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
It'll be much much more of the ladder. That's okay.
That's okay, because it's the Vikings. People just don't have
high hopes for them. Dave, I'm sorry, but who we
do have high hopes for it is our guest tonight.
He is one of our favorite people to bring on,

(03:21):
always an amazing guest, and we got a whole slew
of topics to talk about with him tonight. So he's
an author of many, many books on legends from the
Bridgewater Bridgewater Triangle down into the Florida, a lecture paranormal

(03:42):
investigator and podcast host of Tripping on Legends, a Too
Haunted tour guide, and I think most importantly a teacher.
Well yeah, okay, but whatever anyway, you got me there,

(04:04):
Ladies and gentlemen, mister Christopher Ballzano.

Speaker 6 (04:08):
Making his first appearance ever being compared to the Vikings.
What's up with that?

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Wait a minute, Oh, I was gonna say, I didn't, Yes,
I did. I said, we had hopes for you. But
my parents too had.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
Hopes for me, and they went a lot like the Vikings.

Speaker 5 (04:24):
So theres a lot of Viking trash going on here
in the first thirty seconds in this not liking it?

Speaker 6 (04:30):
Sorry, sorry, that's all right. I really like their uniforms,
is that if that means anything?

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (04:38):
All right?

Speaker 4 (04:39):
Beautiful?

Speaker 6 (04:39):
Ye Vikings?

Speaker 4 (04:41):
Just kidding?

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, Oh, if you're talking about the Norse, you know, residents,
then yes, I agree.

Speaker 6 (04:48):
You know. The first football game that I ever watched
from beginning to end was a Vikings game.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
And how much did they lose by?

Speaker 6 (04:58):
I have no idea they lost. I can tell you that,
and I can tell you it was against the Eagles,
and I had watched little fragments of football and it
was herschel Walker days and herschel Walker returned a kickoff,
and he returned the opening kickoff for a touchdown.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
Well that's impressive because he's a big lumbering man.

Speaker 6 (05:23):
I'm with you, and I think it was like one
of those. It was at the point there were like
we don't even really like him anymore. Just put him
back at kickoffs because he was definitely not a kickoff specialist,
right right like that, And I'm pretty suret I could
be wrong that it's the game where he fumbled the
ball like with like while they were trying to kill
the clock and the Eagles the field goal. Yep, and

(05:48):
I was like, Wow, this sport is amazing. Maybe I'll
watch less hockey. I don't know.

Speaker 5 (05:53):
So well, I'm glad we could be your introduction into
the National Football League.

Speaker 6 (05:59):
So I'll take that is a thank you, thank you
for being gentle.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (06:04):
Yeah, I cannot virchel Walker returning kickoffs. So that's like
Earl Campbell returning kickoffs, right, maybe just maybe it's like
he broke off, like he just broke.

Speaker 6 (06:15):
A really really long run. Yeah, and I'm remembering it wrong,
you know, which I want to do with pormal we
can segua back into that.

Speaker 5 (06:23):
So yeah, that would be really weird, like almost paranormal
weird if I saw him returning kickoff.

Speaker 6 (06:31):
That's why I'm thinking like I had to have gotten
it wrong.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
No, got it right.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
I'm going to try one thing here really quick. Yeah, yep,
I was right. It is Dave. So yeah, your your
microphone is it has this?

Speaker 6 (06:51):
That's what happened when he switched over from his OnlyFans
camera camera all tonight. It must be it must be my.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Te well only pants has gone downhill then that's for sure.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
Oh, come on getting beat up on this show.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yes, yes you are, so let's beat up on Chris
a little bit please. So, So, I'm I'm having trouble
figuring out exactly where I want to go first. So
I think what I'm going to do is, uh take
the post that you had you had done on Facebook
that I saw remind that reminded me that you had

(07:35):
not been on in a long time and that this
is something that I think would be an interesting topic. Okay,
So and that is the show Evil. Yeah, CBS, you
know now it's on Paranormal Plus or par Parormal plus
Paramount plus Paramount And for those of you who have

(07:59):
never seen the show, basically loot Cage and as if
Momby and some lady who I don't know, I can't
remember her name anyway, work for the church and they
go out and they try to either prove or disprove
paranormal happenings or evil. So there's a lot of exorcisms

(08:19):
and demons and you.

Speaker 6 (08:22):
The evil forces of of Ben from Lost exactly.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
So I've watched the first couple of seasons. I really
enjoyed it, and then it just kept getting more and
more stupid. But so it's my own opinion.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
Yeah, it didn't have any glee in it. I'll give
you that.

Speaker 5 (08:45):
There was no glee happening in it, so you probably
were really disappointed.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Well maybe if they had a musical episode, which give
it time, they will, we we will, I'll watch it again.
But anyway, it just went way out and left beild.

Speaker 6 (09:00):
Well anyway, your.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Post, Chris, was you thought, uh from your hosting tripping
on Legends, that maybe the writers were stealing your ideas
for the show, and I just and it says I
hadn't seen the new episodes except for like the promos,
which completely turned me off from it. I would like

(09:21):
to get your reasoning behind, uh why you thought that?

Speaker 6 (09:27):
Okay, first of all, they do have a musical episode.
Let's not forget the episode where all the Catholic schoolgirls
couldn't stop singing the song the ear. Yeah, and uh,
you know Sharker and then then you know the woman
was it was hidden within her her her social media posts. Yeah,
it's I mean, first of all, I think that you

(09:48):
either love or you hate evil. I think it's one
of the most original shows to be on television in
like the last twenty years. And it's and what I
love about it is that it's so unapology genetically itself.
So it's kind of like which is maybe why it's
been canceled after only four seasons. But it's kind of like,
if you don't like us there, that's fine. There's plenty
of other things. Go watch a procedural that like makes

(10:11):
sense or whatever. But it's you know, it's hard to
understand if either I'm not original in this world, uh
and we all just cover the same paranormal topics, or
whether it's it's some kind of synchronicity, which I think
has a lot to do with it, like this idea

(10:33):
of things kind of sprouting up spontaneously. Like so when
people talk about the term urban legend, they really use
the term to describe any ghostly thing or any weird thing,
or any story that's repeated when an actuality, an urban
legend has very specific guidelines, right, And one of the

(10:53):
guidelines is is that these stories pull up spontaneously, multiple
places at the same time. Right. So if you take
like the Crown Craig, the creepy clown craze of nineteen
eighty two, it started in Boston, like that's the first
place where you can really trace things back to, but

(11:15):
the same police departments all across the country at the
same time, we're experiencing this influx of calls ghost of
clowns trying to abduct and kill kids when that wasn't happening, right,
So urban legends are supposed to be these stories where
you hear it, you go, wait a minut I've heard
that before, because you can't trace it back to an origin. Right,

(11:39):
It's called pop up, pop up up. So maybe it's
a case of that because I don't think I'm popular
enough that evil is stealing from me. But it is
crazy how over the last few seasons, I'll do an
episode of my show. We did an episode called the
Elevator Game, and it was just elevators all about elevator

(12:00):
and creepy urban legends, and the primary focus of it
was the actual it's called the It's called the Elevator game.
Next week on Law on Loss, next week on Evil,
they had an entire episode dedicated to the Elevator game.
And then this season it was it was crazy because

(12:21):
my daughter and I we watch it together. That's how
we bond when we're not watching clee together.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
And every.

Speaker 6 (12:31):
Every episode, well, we're big into musical theater and musicals
and things like that, that's your life. And every episode
was something we had covered on the show. And it
wasn't even just and I'm not talking things like as
generic as ghosts, jin you know, hitchhiker legends. I'm talking
very specifically. We we had just done an episode on

(12:54):
It's actually I still need to post it on Cursed
Phone Numbers, and one of the legends we just I
can't remember the woman's name, it was Lucias something, and
she talked about she didn't talk about it. It's supposed
to be this person approaches you on Facebook really really
late at night and contacts you through messenger. When you

(13:16):
accept the message, all of a sudden, she starts to
activate other devices in your house and then when you
look at it, eventually you're talking to her via camera
and she appears right next to you, right like, and
it's a picture. It's a trick. It's like a con right,

(13:36):
but it's got this like ghostly tint to it. And
we're watching the episode and that exact same thing plays out,
and we had just recorded the episode like a week
before that. Now, obviously they don't have a week turnaround
to write produce, like especially because all those all those
episodes are done right like, they're all they're all having
to you know, you know that they those were in

(13:59):
the can like six months ago. Sorry, I gotta like
things popping up, but it was. It was one of
those things where that has happened time and time again.
The episode where spoilers if you haven't watched it, but
there's a girl in the uh kind of at the sleepover.
She's a neighbor, and she wears a mask the whole time, right,

(14:19):
she won't take the mask off, and she sends them
out to the graveyard, to the cemetery and they have
to nail something to the cemetery. And I'm like, oh,
this is like the urban legend. I was literally pulling
out my book of Urban Legends, the Big Book of
Urban Legends, which was the foundation of my show. Like
I started my show because of this one book, and
we're going story after story after story is an evil.

(14:42):
So I think I think there's kind of like a
cosmic connection between these themes, and I just for some reason.
I don't know if it's because I like to think
of myself on like the cutting edge, especially of like
digital legends, or if it's just like they're generic enough
that everybody he's doing them. So I don't know. Damn

(15:04):
good show, though it is a great show.

Speaker 5 (15:07):
Yeah, And I give you and if they are stealing from you,
what a greater compliment could you get than that?

Speaker 4 (15:12):
Really?

Speaker 6 (15:13):
It's it's you know, so sometimes I'm doing research. There's
a guy here I don't know if he's ever going
your show named Mark Munsey who recently moved to North Carolina,
so he's not nearly as active. And we're very similar
to we cover very similar topics, but we're very different people,
and so we approach the legends of the ghostie legends
and these things from from different perspectives and produce something different.

(15:36):
And it's it would it used to kill the crap
on it because he started doing a show, and I'm like,
I'm doing research on Tate's Hell, you know, and I'm
gonna cover Tate's Hell. We're gonna do an episode on that.
And then I see he puts out an episode about
Tate's Hell, and I'm like, well, now I can't do
it because now I seem like the follower. So I
can't tell you how many of my show ideas I've
trashed because Mark Munsey, who's not even in Florida anymore,

(15:58):
is doing the same topic. And I'm like, you have
to wonder where do we these things are not? It's
not gripped from today's headlines, right, It's not SVU or
something like that. So it's like, why do Why would
people simultaneously come up with the same idea and create
a narrative around it.

Speaker 4 (16:17):
It's kind of weird.

Speaker 6 (16:19):
It's global consciousness, yeah, yeah, Or I'm in the right place, right,
I'm doing I'm doing it the right way. If like
it's one of those things where if they're showing it
and people are are liking it, then maybe I'm tapping
into a need that people have a desire.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
If you will they just need to be quicker.

Speaker 6 (16:36):
They know I'm doing my stuff, and then they're copying,
and if they're arrogant, I can't. I can't, you know,
predict what I'm at Munsey a few weeks. Wait, say
I'm at Munsey. Oh yeah, he's fine. Well he's he's
in North Carolina now, so I got my own space.
Good guy though, Good guy though.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
So.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
I mean, obviously, like supernatural like people, they're going to
they're going to books, you know, they're going to the Internet.
They're going to try to find the most popular herbal
ledges out there and then write episodes about them.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
So I mean, do you do you think that maybe
they've picked up one or two of your books?

Speaker 6 (17:16):
I don't think so, I really don't. I asked the spirit.
But here's here's what I'll say. I think that they
probably have picked up the same books that I've picked
up to do my research and to get my inspirations.
So there's a website that's out there that's called ghosts

(17:38):
in Your Machine ghost in your Machine dot Com, and
it is such a ridiculously amazing website and it's really
on the cutting edge of digital legends and being a
high school teacher and working with teens and having a
team two teens. I want to know where the pulse
is right, and so I visit this site all the time,

(18:00):
and we've covered so many things that were inspired by
that site that I actually when I go to you know,
I do to library events or conventions whatever, I sell
her book which is called Games to Play in the
Dark or something like that, Mysterious Games to Play in
the Dark, and it's more popular than my books and

(18:24):
get stolen a lot for my table. Actually, so I
think that they're probably when when we started tripping on legends,
we went through a book called Lore the Ghost, and
I really wish I could remember the writer because he
was a constant guest on when I used to do
when I used to book for Spooky South Coast, we

(18:45):
would have this guy on all the time Ghosts of
the Lore or Lore of the Ghost, and it was
a great book and it was really like foundational. I
think things like that, they're we're picking up the same
resources necessary. I don't think that they're buying I don't
think they're buying Haunted Objects by Chris Baalzano, and you know,
writing a story about a haunted soap dish.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
But still.

Speaker 6 (19:13):
It's in the book, so it wasn't my story, it
was my co author's story, but it's it's it's in there.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
So well, I'm sure that if Evil were to get
another season, which they won't, uh that, I'm sure that
that would have been one of the.

Speaker 6 (19:27):
Episodes, the Haunted soap Dish.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
The Haunted soap Dish. There's gonna be a hanted it's
an evil soap dish. Everyone that owns it died in
the shower, you know, something like that. It's going to
be something just ridiculous like that.

Speaker 6 (19:40):
It is, you know, and and it's it's never exactly
the same, right, like some things are pretty dead on
It's never exactly the same. But you can tell that
this is the stuff that scares the crap out of people.
These are the ideas, you know, that lonely highway where
certain things happen.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
The digital pet.

Speaker 6 (20:01):
We had done an episode on digital pets, and then
there was this whole thing about people like breaking into
a digital pet and reprogramming it to not like black people, right,
and it was it's really it was an episode.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Yeah I heard that.

Speaker 6 (20:18):
Yeah, I'm trying to think of what that oh, jail break.
They jail broke it. I hadn't heard the term jail breaking,
something like jail breaking your phone in probably like what
ten years. But they jail broke this robot so that
they could reprogramming program it to do things. And then
we had done a whole thing on superconductors and the

(20:39):
potential of like what we're opening up in terms of
the paranormal for that, and then they did a whole
episode on superconductors. So it was it was a it's
really I think what scares the crap out of me
scares the crap out of the writers of Of of Evil.
So they should hire me on if they ever read
a movie there you go, or my daughter because she's

(21:00):
better than me.

Speaker 5 (21:00):
So it's where Ben took the particle to the head.
I'm still waiting to see how that pans out.

Speaker 6 (21:08):
Yeah, yeah, and okay, so again, and this was one
of the things that really drew me to Evil is
that we really don't know whether all of this is
real or whether it's just the psychosis of the people involved, right,
and so especially that first season, you didn't know whether

(21:29):
everyone was just crazy or hallucinating or like you know,
biased on things. Or whether they were actually demonic forces.
And I don't think we've really even had that question
answered because everyone on the show has that touch of
evil to them and a touch of badness to them,
and they really kind of play these and that's I

(21:50):
think that's a really interesting thing because I'm still in
that mode when I'm looking at legends, right, like, are
these ghostly stories did they ever actually happen? Or is
this in people's minds?

Speaker 5 (22:01):
Right?

Speaker 6 (22:02):
Are they taking a natural phenomenon making it supernatural? Are
they you know, is it one of those things that
they've been told that this kind of thing happens so
often in a location that they are making it happen,
manifesting it or just like misinterpreting, Like that's kind of
what tracking down ghostly legends is all about as well,

(22:23):
So kind of fits in.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
Well. One of the things that I wanted to ask
them since you brought it up, was that that website
what ghosts in your machine?

Speaker 6 (22:36):
Yeah, ghosts in your machine, like ghosts in the machine,
but it's in, but it's there in your instead of
the right, So, I.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
Mean, that's almost It reminds me a lot of the
topa episode of Supernatural where those two lunatic or you
know idiot, you know, investigators or whatever. We're posting this
stuff on their website and it was bringing peeople from
all over the world. And because of that, you know,
what they were posting was becoming real, because of the

(23:05):
thought process behind it. So, I mean, do you think
in your opinion that if this is a place where
you go and that you know, is very popular, where
people can find legends and they can find theself, that
maybe it's a triggering point for creating these legends to
be real.

Speaker 6 (23:24):
I think that it's either created, it can potentially be
creating something, or it could be basically like putting a
big old neon sign out of something and other things
coming to the location because they know people's eyes are
open there.

Speaker 4 (23:42):
You know.

Speaker 6 (23:43):
So if you have a place, for example, where you
see with the redhead hitchhracker of Route forty four, which
is a bridgeway triangle thing, is a great example of this.
People who have tracked that legend for the through the years,
they've seen him, you know, driving down, they've stopped. You know,
it's a classic hitchhiker legend. But then there was this

(24:03):
other thing kind of added to it, which was. If
you stop your car and you're right on the border
of Rahobeth, Massachusetts and Seaconk, Massachusetts, and you turn your
lights off right and you honk your horn three times.
When you turn your lights back on, the redheaded hitchhiker
will be there in front of you. Right. I think

(24:28):
that so many people have now done that that if
I'm a ghost and I'm not getting a lot of attention,
I'm going to the border of Konk and Rehobeth and
I'm making myself known there, right. And it's a funny
idea to think of because you're like, don't be silly.
Ghosts can't be jealous. Like our ghost came. Wow, this
dude you know, thought his camera was was jealous, right,

(24:50):
I mean, I think I like that.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
Do you know what you call dave?

Speaker 3 (24:54):
This dude?

Speaker 4 (24:55):
This dude, I like that my name's on the screen
and everything. You just go with this dude.

Speaker 6 (25:00):
I didn't have I didn't have it up. I was
I wasn't paying attention. I please. I get in trouble
all the time because I'd call everyone nicknames and stuff.
And you know, every every guy, every every male student's brother,
and every female student's sister, like, you know what I'm saying.
You know what I'm saying, brother, Like, So, but I
think that that idea is kind of real that, you know, uh,

(25:20):
but then the other side is true. So I was
working with this woman named Jackie Barrett, who is the
scariest psychic you've ever met. Her nickname and I recently
was talking to somewhere. They went, you mean the White Serpent.
And I'm like, oh, wow, Like, she's actually more well
known than I thought. If your nickname is the White Serpent,
you know that you're not necessarily always on the on
the side of good. And she was doing an invested

(25:43):
she was this man had brought her in to psychically
cleanse him and figure out what was going on. And
he said that there was a monster, a demon in
his in the basement, right, And so she went down
to perform her own kind of exorcism, her own kind
of cleansing in the basement, and she kind of came
face to face with what was down there. And she

(26:04):
also came face to face with this little boy. And
she had an entire conversation with this little boy. He
didn't remember where he was from, but he had been known.
He was down there a long time. The monster scares
him all the time.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 6 (26:18):
She comes upstairs to kind of talk to the guy
and see what's going on, you know, kind of giving
him a briefing of what she's discovered so far and
what she's going to do to cleanse the house. And
she looks and she sees a picture of the little
boy on the wall, and it's the man who owns
the house. So this house had been his family for
a few generations, and he had blocked out that. When

(26:41):
he was a kid, he used to be locked in
the basement, right, and his parents, in an abusive punishment
kind of way, wouldn't let him out, and so he
would sometimes spend days locked in the darkness of this basement.
And he started to remember that he made a playmate

(27:02):
for himself, right. And so what this kid had actually
done was he created a ghost, a spirit form of
himself that became his companion down in that basement and
attracted something that was sucking on the energy, which then
separated the two of them, and for ten fifteen twenty

(27:23):
years had kept this ghost kid alive to feed off
of it. Now, if you hear that story, it sounds
like the plot of an episode of evil, except for
I trust this woman so explicitly. I don't think that
she's going to lie to me. There's a lot to
unpack about that story. This kid basically split himself kind

(27:45):
of a spiritual version of multiple personalities, and there was
a kid version of himself that had been formed in
a Tulpa type situation down in that basement with a
secondary monster feeding off of his energy. It kind of
had you know, it's that other half of do we
create some of this stuff or do we just draw

(28:07):
other pain people to it? So if I take both
of those things together, my answer is.

Speaker 4 (28:12):
Like, it could be either one of those.

Speaker 6 (28:14):
You know, it could be that's what we're observing is
what we create and then also what we've made famous
enough so that other spirits find their way there to
kind of tap into the fame, to get into the
selfie kind of.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
I can't, Like, I have no doubt that there are
spirits out there that keep that that pettiness and vanity
to where they they would absolutely you know, manifest themselves
in a you know, a red flannel and you know,
show themselves as a red beard and wait for somebody
to stop and you know, honk their horns like oh

(28:52):
it's showtime. Yeah, and going at you know, and go
and become the character that is the hitchhiker.

Speaker 6 (29:00):
That's so interesting because I'm thinking it from the opposite.
I'm like, how sad and pathetic, not vanity or like,
you know, arrogance, but this kind of like no one
talks to me, so I have to go where the
other cool ghosts are. And I see it almost as
like a sad and pathetic thing. But I guess, you know, potato, Potato,

(29:23):
I can see your way.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
But yeah, I just I just get the whole, like
you know, ghost influencer.

Speaker 6 (29:32):
Yeah, I think, I mean, you know, and it's and
it's you know oftentimes because keep in mind, when you
go to a famously haunted location, something happens, right, and
then what you do is you take your personal experience
and you put it up next to what other people

(29:53):
have said and you connect the two. Right. So a
great example, we went to Stetson University here in DeLand, Florida,
and one of the paranormal things we were looking into
was a couple who are buried in this tower called Hollytower.
This couple walk the yard in front of Holly Tower

(30:16):
with there, sometimes with the dogs sometimes what not, in
like the early early morning, right, and so we went
there looking to see if we could catch them walking
the dog. What we caught instead was where that lawn
that's in front of Holly Tower ends, because it's kind
of the center of the campus of Stetson there are

(30:36):
administration buildings and classrooms and all these things. And we
sat there for probably ten minutes and watched these figures
walking across the campus, almost as if we were watching
a whole bunch of people go to class. And we
have the video up on our website and stuff like that,
and it was they were they were walking, They weren't

(30:58):
quite people. They had a figure of like a peep person.
It was almost like a snapshot in that they were
just like negatives, you know what I'm saying, like like
back in the day, like film, like the negative of
a film. The atmosphere of the area totally changed. And
we were just standing there watching this and they would

(31:19):
appear in one place, disappeared, then go to another place,
go in between the we'd lose them in between the
trees that were there, and we watched these figures walking
across this area. Now, first our assumption was they were
students because it was a campus. Well, they could have
been anything, right, But the other thing was we were like,

(31:39):
I wonder if we just saw the hollies, right, We
were there to look at the hollies, to see this
couple that was in this area, and we had to
we had to fight the temptation to think that what
we had witnessed was the thing that we had gone
out there to see, and rather just take the phenomenon
at what it was, which was something some kind of

(32:01):
energy was moving across campus and we were sitting there
watching it. And so I think a lot of times,
if you are in that redheaded hitchhiker situation, you're not
seeing the red headed hitchhiker. You're seeing ghost lights crossing
the street and you're saying, that's got to be the
redheaded hitchhiker. And it's you know, because even though that's

(32:23):
not necessarily what the story of the urban legend is,
it's paranormal, and it's in a place where something is happening.
Here's the story of what happens in that place.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
That must be what we just witnessed.

Speaker 6 (32:35):
So they don't necessarily have to put on the red flannel.
Although that'd be really cool if ghosts could, like do
you know, change outs.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
I can't imagine that they Can's just energy.

Speaker 6 (32:47):
Yeah, well, you know all the time I see that
that whole meme of like, be careful what you wear
today because if you die, that's your your outfit in
the afterlife.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
Well, I mean, if it's a meme, then it must
be true.

Speaker 6 (32:58):
But it makes me conscious think of what I'm wearing
all of the time, you know, making sure that I
want to wear the right deff gear.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Just wear a three P suit every day.

Speaker 6 (33:12):
I It's it's really funny because you know, I'm a
jeans and T shirt kind of guy.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
And yet.

Speaker 6 (33:20):
Right please, you know what I'm saying. My goal is
like let me get the coolest T shirt or T shirt.
People go like, what is that? Why is he wearing
this spring break that I have to explain to people. Dude,
it's not a real spring break. This is it's a
joke on the creature from the Black Lagoon, which is
shot in the Okalla. I have a book about ghosts
of the Okalla. You're like, I have to explain the
whole thing. But it's funny because every day, every day

(33:44):
when I go to work, I teach in a shirt
and tie every day except for Fridays, which are dressed
down days. And yet every single day that I wear
a shirt and tie, someone, some adults, not the kids,
some adults says, look at you all dress us stup.
Literally every single day I wear a shirt and tie.

(34:04):
I just come off with an attitude that I'm a
jeans and t shirt kind of person.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
So well, either that of your coworkers are you know,
just not creative.

Speaker 6 (34:14):
Or observe or really care about I wouldn't make a
joke that they're teaching your kids and not mine, except
for they actually are teaching my kids.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
So are you the new substitute? Have you been here before?
Wait till you get that question next year.

Speaker 6 (34:34):
So look, I can't tell you how many people open
house I was wearing. I had to wear a Polo
shirt and I hate wearing Poles shirts. Literally, I wear
a pole shirt shirt one day year and that's open
house of school. The number of people that said to me,
look at you, you cleaned up well? And I'm like,
I literally wear a shirt and tie every single day,

(34:56):
every single.

Speaker 5 (34:57):
Day, and I've dropped onto a polo and I'm getting implements, right,
you know again, right.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Whatever.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
I guess speaking then of horrible coworkers and just a
horrible like educational system in general, because that was another
thing that I wanted to talk to you about. Yeah,
and that was it was a post that I saw.
It was before it was for the Evil One. But
I was shocked. I was, honestly, I was just like,
you gotta be shitting me. It's just because of the

(35:32):
whole system, and.

Speaker 6 (35:32):
That is you're shocked by the way. You're gonna be
shocked at the wrong thing.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
With this probably will. It's just I've just thought about
the whole thing, so maybe like one little section. Plus
it's Florida, so I guess I don't get particularly I
can't get exactly too shocked. But you had posted that
your books, your paranormal books, which talk about stories and
legends and had been deemed quote unquote state for yours

(35:58):
for your students to read. Yes, I want that entire
story because that so.

Speaker 6 (36:07):
So this is and this is you know, I'm gonna
make it paranormal. I'm gonna make sure that I touch
upon that stuff. But it's really political and Florida is horrible.
Let's just like start out with that. And so there's
this idea, which is not a Florida thing, but that
books are being used to brainwash kids one way or

(36:29):
the other. And so it's really important that regardless of
where you stand politically, this is a belief that's held
by the left and the right. It's just the right
that are doing something about it.

Speaker 5 (36:41):
Right.

Speaker 6 (36:43):
And so here in Florida, about a year and a
half ago, they came up with the they passed a
new law that said that every book in every classroom
in Florida has to be scanned into a system approved
and searchable. Right, So anyone right now in the world

(37:08):
can search my library of the books that are in
my room and to complain about them, to make sure
that they're okay. Right, meaning you right now from Minnesota
can say that you don't think that Flubber is appropriate
an appropriate book, or that here's what I get all

(37:28):
the time that the Outsiders promotes gangs. Right, you can
make a complaint about that and potentially get me in
trouble and get the book off the shelf. Right, So
it's searchable by people who are not my student's parents.
A guy actually lost his job last year. I shouldn't

(37:50):
say that a guy was challenged in my school and
quit in disgust because he had books. What teachers do
in Florida, that is, they don't have books.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
Right.

Speaker 6 (38:02):
It's such a hassle that I literally have more books
on shelves in my classroom than there are books in
the entire rest of the school combined. Because I'm like,
I am not folding to this. I am going to
fight to get books approved in my room. Right, I'm
a reading teacher. I'm an English teacher, like kids will
read in my classroom, and so you literally have to

(38:25):
go wall and you have to scan the book and
put it aside, and you have to wait for it
to get approval. And the only way it gets approval
is if someone in the county, although I think it's
also the state. So I think that there's an issue
with the way my principal present there a few days ago.
Someone in the state of Florida, some librarian, had to

(38:47):
have read that book, gone through the process and approved
it to get that book on the shelf. Okay, otherwise
it's not going on. So at some point last year,
at the beginning, like this time last year, I had
seven hundred books that were in my room, like twenty
of which were approved. Now here's what they do, right.

(39:11):
It's the genius of our political system figuring that if
you put a book up, someone is going to complain
about it. They just don't review the books. So it's
not as if you're banning the books. We just haven't
gotten to that book yet, do you get what I'm saying.

(39:33):
So it's not as if you can't complain that they're
banning books. They're just not approving them. So there must
have been some kind of huge push because when I
came back for this school year, yes, in Florida, my
first day with students is tomorrow. We've already had our training,
two weeks of training and everything. All of my books

(39:54):
were approved, which means some media specialist in Florid, Florida
deemed Picture Yourself capturing Ghosts on film to be a
book worthy over something like oh, I don't know, to
Kill a Mockingbird and Mark Twain, you know, Tom Sawyer,

(40:15):
I should say Huckleberry Finn and like their Eyes were
watching God in the color Purple, all of which are
not approved and not allowed to be in classroom, libraries,
and it's just really it blew me away because I'm
like I kind of wanted to not be approved. I
kind of wanted to have this air of like I'm
so bad, like done, like go through the whole process

(40:38):
and like put a big stamp and say like, not
only is he a bad writer, but he's danger to children.
So last year I get in trouble a lot at
school because I bring this stuff what I do into
the classroom, and I always present it as we I'm
a storyteller, so you can you can read the go

(41:00):
through a longer go through, Like I am presenting these
as stories, and we're gonna pull what do these stories
say about the living as opposed to the dead? Right?
And how can we learn about an area or a
time in history from the ghost stories that come from it?

Speaker 7 (41:14):
Right?

Speaker 6 (41:14):
I'm a teacher, Like that's what I do. And I,
by the way, I do the same thing in my books.
I do the same thing in the ghost story, do
the game, same thing in my presentations. And so we
were cutting off reading the Odyssey, which the kids liked
because it was you know, people killing each other and
having sex and stuff. I teach freshmen by the way,
so it's not like I'm in third grade and that,
like we're doing this stuff. And so I decided, you

(41:37):
know what I'm gonna do, Like we have to cover
a narrative poetry. We have three days before spring break.
Let me do something fun and something that I know.
Having a daughter was kind of trending at that time.
On TikTok, which was let's Analyze the Devil went down

(41:57):
to Georgia. I almost got fired.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
I had so many.

Speaker 6 (42:04):
Complaints about introducing the concept of the devil, first of all,
going off the curriculum because it's not in our book.
But then, like you know, introducing this idea of the devil,
and I'm like, dude, the good guy wins, right, And

(42:25):
it's funny because I brought into the discussion movies like Crossroads.
If you remember Crossroads with Ralph Maccio and Steve VII
Britney Spears one, not the Britney Spears one. No, this
is slightly better than that. And this whole tradition of
the innocent person who gets put face to face with
the devil and then the devil loses because the person

(42:48):
remembers their roots and remembers where they come from the
innocence of it, And that is a theme that is
constant in this narrative poetry. And I got challenged by
by some parents had a real big issue with me
bringing that to class, and then I had to have
a meeting with administration and these parents. And you know,

(43:09):
there's the side of me who's like, dude, could you
just shut up and just let me because I had
said at some point the rhetorical question what would you
sell your soul to the devil?

Speaker 2 (43:20):
For?

Speaker 6 (43:22):
Right, which was immediately followed up by after a dramatic pause.
In all of these stories, the person thinks that they
want something, and eventually they come to realize that their
life is better without it. I have low level students, right,
like have I literally am starting tomorrow and I get

(43:43):
notifications that I have to know that I have felons
in my room. I got seven felons in my room, right.
I literally had a student last year who's in jail
right now for killing somebody right at fifteen. Yet that
is something that like they picked up on that dramatic pause.
Now in the defense, the mom in this meeting was

(44:09):
bawling her eyes out, saying, can't you see how there's
an attack on our children, like she it was a
genuine like you know, like you can't just laugh it off,
like this woman had a very but then the husband
was from Massachusetts, and I'm like, brother, I know you

(44:29):
wrote it. I know you read The Devil and Tom
Walker when you were in Massachusetts. I know you read
Young Goodman Brown, like these are classic literature things that
are taught in New England. I don't know if you
guys ever were forced to read those in high school,
but like every school kid in New England has read

(44:49):
The Devil and Tom Walker, which became the movie The
Devil and Daniel Webster, right old scratch going to court
to figure out I mean, dude, John Lovett did a
parody of it on Saturday Night Live. You're like, it's
a famous story. It's like, asshole, Like why are you
challenging me on this, Like can't you like you did
what you had the same education that I did, You'd

(45:10):
three years younger than me. I know that you had this,
you know, and so that I those paranormal those supernatural
ideas are in conflict with a lot of the religious
ideas of people down here in the South who can't
compartmentalize what these stories are and what they do. They

(45:33):
just see it as an affront, as if the two
things can't exist in the same space.

Speaker 5 (45:40):
So are these the same people that are going to
church and like throwing rattlesnakes on each other to see
whether or not, you know, God saves them.

Speaker 4 (45:49):
Whether they're worthy to get a bid and not die
of rattlesnake.

Speaker 6 (45:53):
Yeah, there are quite a few of those denominations here
in southwest Florida, specifically in Lee County. These were not those,
but they were definitely like, you know, they were definitely
Christians who who thought that this stuff was an attack,
you know, And and it's it's you know, we wonder

(46:14):
why our kids lose critical thinking ability. And I don't
think that. I once I got in trouble again earlier
in the year, like only a few weeks before, because
I said something along the lines of these myths are
the foundation of all religions. So all religions have stories

(46:36):
which help people to understand the ideals of that religion
and what they're built on. Right, And someone came home,
went home and said, mister Balzano said, the stories about.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
Jesus are just stories.

Speaker 6 (46:52):
I got to the I got to the point last
year where I would go the long way to my
classroom so I would avoid all administrators so no one
would talk to me. That's how often I got in
trouble last year for this stuff.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
That's probably why they said you clean up nights because
they don't see you anymore.

Speaker 6 (47:07):
You don't see me right exactly. They see me sweaty
from like going the long way around in the floor.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
Dyah exactly.

Speaker 7 (47:12):
You know.

Speaker 6 (47:13):
So it was it was cool to see that my
books were my books were approved, and my books can
be on the shelf and my students can because it
was like a dirty little secret that they have a
published author teaching them about literature, you know, like I
should be the prized pty, like I've I've written more

(47:37):
books than the majority of the staff have read. You know,
like we have we have a you know, we have
a high level of education, and then like a really
severe drop off. So it's you know, some people like
I haven't read a book, some teachers, I hadn't read
a book since I was in college or whatever, and
I'm like, really, so it's a privilege to have it

(47:57):
up there. My goal now is to use school funds
to buy a whole bunch of my books.

Speaker 4 (48:04):
Nice, there you go.

Speaker 6 (48:07):
That's my goal. So I'm just gonna just what I
think I'm going to do is I'm gonna buy because
we every year we get a certain amount of money
we can go spend on materials. I think I'm just
gonna buy like thirty copies of haunted objects and put
half of them on the shelf and then sell the
other half.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
There you go, Yeah, why don't you use some of
that money to buy a haunted object.

Speaker 6 (48:31):
For the classroom?

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Sure? Yeah, So.

Speaker 6 (48:36):
So I uh every year, and I delayed it. I delayed.
I usually do it around Halloween time, but I was
like I was already in trouble by that, and so I,
as part of as the lead into doing to doing
uh the Odyssey, I had them create their own urban
legends and I had to and they had then they

(48:58):
had to research modern.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
Legends as well.

Speaker 6 (49:01):
So they were coming in talking about Slenderman and you know,
you know, Momo Challenge and all these great ones. And
I love how often times they go like can I
do Santa Claus? I'm like, whatever, I don't care. Are
you doing something? Was not the intent, but I have
to have that eyelet. They'll do whatever they wanted. Didn't
say it had to be scary. And kids wanted to

(49:23):
bring in wigeboards, and they wanted to bring in divining rods,
and they wanted to more. They wanted to play Charlie,
Charlie in the classroom, Jesus. And so that's where I
have to draw the line like things on that. So
bringing an actual haunted object into the classroom. So years ago,

(49:49):
right when I was you know what, I didn't have
to worry about feeding my children. I used to I
used to do a whole lesson on how to be observant,
like how to interview pete, how to be observant, how
to like tell subtle things. And what I used to
do was I would get everyone in the class in
a circle and then I would cold read them and

(50:09):
I would let them have conversations with dead relatives, and
I would go throughout the whole thing. I'm seeing someone
with a j maybe is it is adjacent or something
he's touching his head. Did you have like like an uncle, yes,
my uncle? And they would and I would cold read
them and then I would tell them my process of
having done that, and the things that they gave. If

(50:29):
I tried to do that today, I think I would
be tired and feathered and probably hung as a witch.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
You would be hung as a witch, You'd be burned.

Speaker 6 (50:39):
But it was a very powerful lesson in how to
be observant and like how to pull out you know,
evidence and things like no, no, I can't do anything
fun anymore.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
So they have college courses now, I mean not every college,
but I mean every once in a while you'll find
a college that will actually have like, of course, unlike
paranormal studies or metaphysics, you know that that sort of
thing something uh that goes beyond you know, spiritual religion
and stuff like that. So I mean, do you think

(51:12):
that there will ever be a time when the paranormal,
in any sort of fast, whether it be UFOs, whether
it be metaphysical, whether it be supernatural, will actually play
a role in the education of of chill Like the
other side would be something that children need to learn.

Speaker 6 (51:30):
Mmm, not in Florida for sure.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Well that just means in general, but yeah, Florida, Florida
would be state number you know, five hundred.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
Right.

Speaker 6 (51:44):
It's an interesting question. It's I I I think that
it's hilarious that we teach them all of this stuff,
and we teach a strong belief in the supernatural and
the majesty of the forces of nature. We literally teach

(52:06):
them about Paul Bunyan, right, I mean it's Paul Bunyan,
not a demon, right, Like the dude like a takedown
a whole forest and like one's fail swoop.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
Right he was, he was a giant. I mean he
shouldn't exist.

Speaker 6 (52:18):
Right. We have Peko's Bill, who's like manipulating the weather
and riding it like a like it's a like it's
a crazy horse. Like we have John Henry, who is
uh wielding the supernatural strength, right like we have in textbooks. Uh,
they've brought in thank Heavens, They've brought in ideas like Superman, Batman,

(52:44):
Spider Man as literature, right, Like they've they've used that
kind of thing. Every every kid is taught and there's
no one and I teach. I teach you for an
entire month leading into Christmas. Christmas Carol, right, which is
a supernatural story, right, And I avoid overly talking about it,

(53:09):
and I talk more about the ideas of past, present
in the future, Like it's hilarious to me that so
much of that kind of thing has been the supernatural
forces have been replaced by ideas of psychology and sociology.
So we've taken the ghost out of the ghost story
and we've made it entirely about sociology and psychology and

(53:33):
the subconscious and things like that, which to me is
no less supernatural than the demons. Right, like the idea
that you're three people inside of yourself and your mind
and that can be manipulated, and sometimes that can be
used intent to do things that is supernatural. So it's

(53:55):
really I would be interested to see where it goes,
and also be really interested to know if they're is
going to be like a huge pushback against it, whether
there's going to be a point where kids lack wonder
and they lack awe and they push back and they

(54:16):
seek out those stories and they seek out the supernatural
and the paranormal to the point where it becomes commonplace
for it to be back in what they're reading in class.
Because at some point, if you're just eating candy and
getting sick to your stomach, you're going to want to
go eat a vegetable, no matter how much you hate vegetables,

(54:37):
and so I feel that we're going to reach a
point at someplace, probably after I've retired, which hopefully will
be tomorrow, that kids will bring that stuff out. And
I think probably the closest we have to that like
in modern times would be like the fighting to get
Harry Potter to be able to be read in classrooms

(55:00):
and the the fight to have I've been teaching a
long time, so like the idea of which, by the way,
all three of the Twilight books are approved, by the way,
which is hilarious to me, Like you're not going to
approve super Fudged by Judy Bloom, but you're going to
approve like, you know, New you know New Moon, where

(55:23):
like the dude like like basically falls in love with
a kid or whatever that thing is imprints on a
kid or whatever. Right, Like, So, I think that those
things do pop up, and I think that they demand
when they're good, they demand to be acknowledged in the classroom.
It's just that there's a lot of really crappy stuff
out there, and so I think it has to be

(55:46):
one of those things where it's driven by really great
thinking minds, and so you can't necessarily have your average
Joe who goes out in ghost hunts, you know, crammed
his way in to a classroom. Whi's got to be
thinkers who understand like what this stuff is about and
how much it has to do with history that you're

(56:08):
gonna kind of creep in and destroy their foundation until
it's accepted. But I don't think you're ever going to
have like ghosts are reel in a elementary school, middle school,
high school curriculum type thing. I don't think that'll happen.
But the stories will find their way in.

Speaker 5 (56:27):
I was going to say, I think it would be
possibly taught in a private school or a private school
setting long before it would ever reach out into the
public school system in regardless of a state.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
You know.

Speaker 6 (56:38):
Yeah, it's crazy to think that. Fifteen sixteen years ago,
before I came to Florida, I was teaching a paranormal
investigating class in a Catholic school because they thought it
was a really cool idea. And I'm not even talking
folkal or I'm talking literally. We were going around like
the old churches in the area with equipment investigating like

(57:03):
store like reports of there being like the ghost of
a nun in this little place, and the teachers and
the administration and the nuns who are in our school
were like, this is awesome. The kids love it, go
look at ghosts. So I totally agree with that idea
of of it being like something that private schools are doing.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
I I honestly I have to say that I would
go back to school if one of the classes were like, Hey,
we're gonna go out and do investigations and the field
trips and stuff like. I agree. I think that would
be amazing. So someone someone was on.

Speaker 6 (57:50):
On my ghost tour like a few weeks ago, and
there were these five like really giggly college girls who
actually ended up being very important. But they one of
them said, and I'm trying to remember the school, but
it was in the South. It wasn't one of the
Florida schools, I don't think. And she said they have

(58:12):
a whole degree there on ghosts and the supernatural. And
I was like, oh, do you mean like parapsychology, because
Duke can get a degree in parapsychology. Rivier College in
New Hampshire you can get a degree in parapsychology, So
there are those courses out there. And she was like no,

(58:32):
parapsychology is part of it. But we literally as class
assignments took field trips to haunted locations and used the
equipment and stuff like that. Like we didn't get certified
as ghost Techs, but it was the idea and the
concept of it was part of my college. So I
think it does happen in colleges. And definitely what I do,

(58:54):
which is look at the ghostly legends, is in most
college campuses in this country that or not for it,
but not for but not Florida. Yeah, I mean, you
know when we were we were doing Ghostly Legends in
North Carolina because we took a road trip to get
to Indiana and we were going to stop in North

(59:15):
Carolina for like three days. And so I contacted the professor,
a doctor about a class she was teaching that was
called like slender Man and Beyond. So we were talking
earlier before we came on the air about like whether
I ever do interviews on my show. That was someone

(59:37):
Andrea Kinda, what's her name, doctor Andrea Kinda. We have
a whole interview about how like the how academics because
a lot of folklorests are pissed at the fact that
I called myself a folklorest and traditionally academic folklore is

(59:57):
don't acknowledge the paranori. And she did, right, like she
totally sees like this is where the needle is, which
is where it's going. And so we have a great
conversation up in the archives where we look at that
kind of stuff, so, you know, And she talked about
the pushback that she initially got, not from students and
not from parents, but from academics who were like, this

(01:00:20):
is not worthy of being taught, Like, how dare you
think that you should do an examination of the movie
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre as delving into what America fears
and not just maybe evaluated on its aesthetic movie quality.

Speaker 5 (01:00:40):
Aesthetic movie quality, the psychotic giant man firing up the shade,
sawing innocent girl, half naked girls, and half.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
Psychology behind it, but the film.

Speaker 6 (01:00:55):
But the film student in me thinks that that's a
pivotal movie in the history of film agreed, you know,
And so rather than looking at it as its quality
of like a film that was that needed to be
made and changed how movies were made, let's talk about
the supernatural aspects of it. You know, it was kind
of what I was getting at.

Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
So that movie, to give it its props, was creepy
as Helle.

Speaker 7 (01:01:19):
Like if I were when I first saw it, If
I would have been traveling through some flat ass part
of Texas and like, come upon this house looked anything
remotely like their house, and I had seen that movie first,
I would not I would have just kept right on going.

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
I would not have stopped. Yeah, and it impacted me
that much.

Speaker 5 (01:01:37):
Not that I thought I was going to get killed
by a guy, some wild psycho and that, you know,
so inhuman flesh mask with a chainsaw, but just at
the back of my mind, I'd be like, I need
to be careful here, like you know, something's wrong, you know,
even though it wouldn't have been probably it would have
probably been some little old grandma and grandfather been like, oh, honey,

(01:01:58):
come on.

Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
In and have cookies and tea and meet my son.
He's in the basement by the way.

Speaker 6 (01:02:04):
The way, by the way, let's make some chili.

Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
Why do you have all these freezers? Yeah, I don't
understand why you have so many freezers.

Speaker 6 (01:02:10):
So I don't know if either of you guys have
watched that new documentary about the Brat Pack. It's really good.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
It's really good.

Speaker 6 (01:02:18):
It's like Andrew McCarthy going back and tracking the history
of the Brat Pack and it's and its impact on
all the people who were counted as people from Brat Pack,
but then going out and interviewing like Emilio Estevez and
and Ali Sheety and different people as to how this
changed their lives. And it's a really great documentary.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:02:40):
And one of the primary things that they talk about,
especially at the beginning, is the idea that like this
was where movies were going, right, is that movies went
from being things about adults to think of things about
teenagers and people in the early twenties, and that they
were stopping making these movies with like Carry grant As

(01:03:01):
like a sixty year old, like Chasing After a fifty
year old, and they were making these movies that kids
could relate to because they were now having money and
they would they were hanging out them all anyway, so
get them into the movie theater. That happened in horror
thirty years before that or twenty years before that. You know,
when you have things like the Texas chainsaw massacre, you
have Halloween Horror movies were on the idea that you

(01:03:25):
could scare the crap out of teenagers, and that you
could use the ghostly legends and the urban legends. The babysitter,
you know, who's the serial killer is upstairs, the phone calls,
you know, the the roommate who is being raped and murdered,
and someone's leaving a message in blood on the wall.

(01:03:48):
The people who go out to the cabin in the
woods to all, you know, have sex and do drugs
and break all of those taboos that they're not supposed
to be doing, are all going to be massacred by somebody.
Horror movies was a to tap into that youth idea
and show youth being the main characters of movies long
before major Hollywood. So we need to give those kind

(01:04:09):
of movies their props, man like, they are the really
the forerunners of those kinds of movies. You wouldn't have
saying Almo's Fire if you didn't have Texas Chainsaw. Massacre
said it. He said, you wouldn't have You wouldn't have
American Pie if it hadn't been for you know, Halloween.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
I hope, I.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
Hope, hope. We might well either way. But you know.
I guess you could say then, because I mean Halloween,
Chester Stain is called Maxacre. I mean those are always
slaughter horror movies. Yeah, I mean then then you had
you know Dave and I have mentioned him many many
times on the show. Is the Blair Witch Project? That
that brought the supernatural and creep No murder really, but

(01:04:55):
the creep factor like through the roof? Yeah, so that
brought the supernatural.

Speaker 6 (01:05:03):
We never talked about the Blair Witch Project.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
We have never talked about the Blair Witch Project.

Speaker 6 (01:05:07):
Chris, So, I am so ridiculously obsessed with that movie
that it's it's unhealthy. So I had heard about that
movie probably six or something, maybe eight months before it
was ever released in the theaters, and being like I

(01:05:29):
was saying, I was just saying, my background is filmed, right. So,
being in film school originally before I became a writer,
I was always like who's on the film, who's on
the who's on the the you know, who's it con,
who's it who's at Sundance? Like who are the people
who are making the scene at at these events?

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Right?

Speaker 6 (01:05:51):
And so a friend of mine had said, there's this
movie called The Blair Witch Project, which just ran which
is we just want when the con Film Festival, and
it is easy, and told me the plot of it, right,
And so I was already obsessed with the movie. Then
what happens is they win Movie of the Year, right,

(01:06:13):
and they go out and they shop the They shot
the movie right to the major markets because they were honestly,
and there's a bigger story here. There were just some
kids out of UCF here in Florida. Right. And so
my friend, because I'm now graduated, my friend was working
at a Hollywood studio and he got a copy of

(01:06:34):
a copy of a copy of something that was send
to the studio so that the studio would buy it,
would buy the movie and distribute it. Right, eventually goes
to artists in and changes movie history. So I had
a copy of the Blair Witch Project that is a
full two hours long, right, and is better than what

(01:06:56):
you saw in the theater, and no one had ever
heard of it. So all that summer before the hype started,
the spring into the summer, I would get my friends
together and I would show them this movie and I
would tell them it was real and it would scare
the cras. So anyone who's like Blair witches. I'm scary

(01:07:18):
at all. Scare the crap out of them. My dad,
who spends the spring and summer sleeping on the back
porch in a cot because he loves being outside, didn't
do it that year after I should have been in
the movie, right crazy, So I so details of that

(01:07:39):
movie are are are they're they're just like I know,
I know parts of that movie, and I know ideas
about that movie as well as I know some of
my family members. So a few years ago, I'm doing
research on the swamp which and this is like a
major book that I've been working on for years and
I haven't gone it right yet. I'm gonna do it right,

(01:08:01):
and I'm gonna independently publish it because no one will
publish this book. And there is this swamp witch in
this town that no longer exists called Pemberton Ferry, which
is probably like an hour north of Tampa. Right If
people who are in Florida are into ghosts or in Florida,

(01:08:23):
this Pemberton Ferry is the sister city of Brooksville. If
you're into ghosts and you're in Florida, you know Brooksville.
And actually some people mistakenly say it happens in Brooksville.
So there's this story of a swamp witch who acts
exactly like the blair Witch, right, Like the background story

(01:08:44):
is slightly different, but what she does at this campsite
is exactly the same. Ripping on the tent, slamming on
the doors, things like that. So there's this guy in
Florida who does what I do, named Mark Munsey, who
we discussed off air for a few minutes. He tells me,

(01:09:06):
you know that the swamp Witch is the basis for
the blair Witch projects. And I'm like, no, it is it, Like,
I know exactly the steps that they took when they
made that, and he's like no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (01:09:20):
Listen.

Speaker 6 (01:09:22):
There's this guy who wrote Weird Florida whose name is
Charlie Carlson, and he spoke at the campus of the
University of Central Florida, where the director and the producer
were students at the time, and they were so mesmerized
by this that they decided to write the blair Witch Project.

(01:09:43):
And I'm like, Okay, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
I did research. I cannot find that Charlie Carlson ever
spoke at the University of Central Florida. Oh, I'm sure
he did. I know, specifically the cases and the stories
that were the main inspiration for the story itself for
the blair Witch Project. Not to mention the fact, right

(01:10:05):
that if Charlie Colson was writing about this legend in
nineteen whatever, why is it not in his book? Right? Like,
if you are an expert in a legend that was
the inspiration for one of the most successful modern horror
movies in two thousand and five when you wrote your book,

(01:10:26):
why would you not talk about it? I'm like, this
isn't right, But I don't want to offend my friend,
right because he said he's seen the research. He said
he talked to producers and blah blah blah. So a
few years ago, I'm doing an event right down the
street from where I live now, and they're viewing out
in the park. It's Halloween. They're viewing out in the

(01:10:47):
park of the blair Witch Project. And Dan Merrick, the
guy who wrote and directed it, is hosting, and then
he's going to have a question and answer afterwards. And
so I'm there as a vendor and I'm selling my
books blah blah blah, and A woman comes up to
me who works for the local radio station, and she's like, oh, so,

(01:11:07):
what are you doing? And I tell her everything I
just told you, and I said, and I want to
talk to him. I have the question I want to
ask him, is is that true? And then I show
her the videotape that I still have, which is about
ten feet away over there of that videotape of the
Blair Witch Project from nineteen ninety eight, a copy of
a copy of a copy of a copy. She comes

(01:11:29):
back ten minutes later. Dan wants to meet you. He
said that he hasn't seen the version of the Blair
Witch Project you have in twenty years. Bring the tape
with you cause. And so there I am sitting eating
bad pizza and drinking beer with the director of the
Blair Witch Project asking him and he's like, what do

(01:11:51):
you talk He's like, I don't even know who Charlie
Carlson is like, I have no idea what you're talking about.
I never went to data and so not only which
is weird because if you remember the Blair Witch Project,
as part of the propaganda they had that documentary, Charlie
Carlson is in there as a folklorist. He's like, we
were literally just pulling people on the campus of UCF

(01:12:12):
to like be in that documentary, Like we had no
idea he actually was a folklorist. So now I have
proof I had I've had I've had dinner and drinks
with the director of The Blair Witch Project. And on
top of that, he borrowed my copy of The Blair
Witch Project so that he could tape and so he

(01:12:34):
could actually digitize the version that I had because it
hasn't existed in like twenty years.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
So well, you know what you're gonna do next with
that copy?

Speaker 4 (01:12:44):
Send it to you, yes, and send it to us.
I'd love to see the original, Like.

Speaker 6 (01:12:51):
It's it's really cool because they some of the things
that are in there that helped to explain what's going
on are not in there. So the whole interview, that's like,
and I heard that like he used to put like
one person in the room and make them face the
wall when he was killing someone else. That explanation isn't

(01:13:12):
in there. You just get it because you're watching it.
You know what I'm saying. And so there are a
few things like that. And the cool thing is is
that because it's been taped so many times the sound
drops out at certain times. It'll go like like you
look at all foggy and stuff like that, so you
actually feel as if you're watching it's kind of like

(01:13:33):
digital horror. Yeah, right, Like it's it really feels as
you're watching like analog horror, like horror came out was
was a thing, right, And it's not because they made
it that way. It's because the tape is so old
and damaged that actually adds to the aesthetic quality. So
I'll try to get you guys copies of it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
Well you definitely before it actually gets too damage to
an old to actually watch, you need to, you know,
have a digitized or at least have a digitized version
sent to you.

Speaker 6 (01:14:03):
Yeah, I mean I have a whole section when I
do events that has like it's all about that swamp
Witch because like I said, it's really an obsession of
mine and that that tape is like right there, and
people say walk up and go, why do you have
a copy of the Blair Witch Project? And then I've
got to I've got to tell them how it's kind
of like proving a negative, Like I have to tell

(01:14:23):
show them how like there's an urban legend out there
that this Florida haunting was the inspiration for the Blair
Witch Project, which is not true.

Speaker 5 (01:14:33):
So so was the Blair Witch Project done in any way,
shape or form related to the Bell Witch.

Speaker 6 (01:14:39):
Yeah, so it is, which which they'll both admit too,
that it was more of the idea of something creepy
out in the wood, supernatural, being a witch, because there
are really no elements of the of the Bell Witch
that are like the Blair Witch Project, correct, right, It

(01:15:00):
was more of this woman, right, it was. So it
was a combination of the bell Witch and this woman
named Mary Dryer Dyer Dwyer in Maryland, where the other
guy was from. That were the primary inspirations. And then
Blair was the name of a friend of his. And
he thought, what a generic term because the whole idea,

(01:15:22):
which is what makes the Blair Witch Project so effective.
And I think if you go people go back and
watch it with without the expectation of the hype that
was into it, they'll enjoy it more. Now, was this
idea of these woods could be your woods, this legend
could be happening in your town, Like, isn't this just
like something that you've heard of in an area that

(01:15:42):
you're near. This is what happened when these kids looked
into it, you know, So it was intentionally designed to
be They thought Blair was a generic enough term that
everyone would know, like a Blair High School or something
like that, and so they they could apply it to
to to the town or the county that they were
in anywhere in the United States.

Speaker 4 (01:16:05):
And you know, those woods, those woods weren't really that creepy.
They were wild open.

Speaker 3 (01:16:10):
I mean, it really was not creety.

Speaker 5 (01:16:11):
I mean, those are my deer hunting woods, right, I mean,
it's not There's nothing really creepy to me about that
at all.

Speaker 4 (01:16:17):
But so here's a question.

Speaker 5 (01:16:19):
So with this swamp push thing, then what do you
put the similarities to with her, you know, with the
legend of her, you know, kind of clawing at the
tents and and and doing stuff like that. You think
that that's just kind of a common thing that would
happen with an entity like that, or do you think

(01:16:40):
there's any type of correlation between let's say the Bell
Witch and the swamp which and maybe some other witch stories,
like is there are they interlaced somehow in an and
maybe in a dimensional type of way or in a
way we don't understand.

Speaker 6 (01:16:54):
So so spoilers. The ghost is not that of a witch.
But if you go to where this is happening, so
it's it's while the town no longer exists, people can
find it on a map if they look for Hog Island,
Hog Island, Florida. I think that that's very common activity

(01:17:19):
for a most ghosts, right, Like think about that knocking
on the door, scratching at the wall. Yeah, dark figures seen,
and it happens in this case, just happens to be
in a swampy area. Now, when we the very first
time be legend trip this, it's one of those things

(01:17:40):
where oftentimes the legend trip helps you to understand the
context of like, oh, so this is why they're making
up this story at that location. First of all, there
is a death, there is a tragedy that happens there,
just has nothing to do with a witch. It's just
an easier story to make it a witch. Right next

(01:18:01):
to the location where this is seen, there is an
almost perfect round swamp like like a lagoon, you might say, right,
and it is. First of all, it's it's geographically crazy
because it's almost a perfect circle, and all around that
circle there are ghost trees, right, or fairy trees, so

(01:18:26):
it's almost like a fairy ring. And so by that
I mean trees that have the base of them is dugout,
so it's like like clear cut, so you can like
reach into the like the bark and the and the
first layer is gone. And so in folklore that's where
those are. That's like where the fake can come into

(01:18:46):
this world. So they come to and from and as
an extension, the dead can come from graves from the
you know, from the other side. They can enter this
world and exit this world through these fairy ring trees.
So through these fairy trees, these trees that essentially most
of the time that happens is there's some kind of
disease that kills the but the base of the tree

(01:19:08):
so the tree continues to exist, but it has like
a scar, and that scar is a hole, a big
hole in the bottom of the tree. At this little circle,
it's surrounded by those, right, so it looks creepy as hell.
And then in addition to that, it has this algae
which glows green. So if this weird stuff is happening

(01:19:31):
in the woods, right and you are seeing this dark
figure walking along and you then take a few steps,
am I a few steps? I mean like less than
fifty yards away from where the primary haunting location is.
There is this very witchy looking scene of these circles

(01:19:54):
and these trees which are also known as witch trees,
and it glows green because of the algae. You going
to associate it with witches, and so you're gonna associate
it with something supernatural or supernatural as opposed to paranormal,
right like the and it makes sense that whoever is
in that little area and that little swamp area is

(01:20:14):
a witch because the environment is witchy. And by the way,
when people see the hanging body, there's only two kind
of things that get hung for creating crimes. And guess what,
they're not going to emit the first one. So it's
a lot easy, even though we've got news articles that

(01:20:36):
tell me that that's what it is. So they're going
to take the second one, which is the witch story.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Ye, yes, yes they are. I just want to say
two things about the Blair Witch Project and then we
can go on. First one is I just bought it
on Blu Ray while we were talking. Yes, I don't
have it yet. The The second thing is, it's uh.

Speaker 6 (01:21:06):
You could have gone down to the Goodwill and bought
me a VCR and I could have taped it for
you for like half the price that you just bought
that Blu Ray for.

Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
I still want the two hour version, okay, but until
I get it, I'll have to deal with that.

Speaker 4 (01:21:22):
I got you a VHS copy that I bought brand
new right when it was released.

Speaker 6 (01:21:28):
Did you ever play the really bad video games, like
the PC video games? They were crazy bad? Like I'm
when I tell you I was obsessed with the Blair
Witch Project. It's not like a like a I wick
get like I was. I mean I had the things
hanging from my walls and stuff like that, the symbol
and everything. Anyway, sorry, go ahead. Number two.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
The second thing is it's weird, very very weird to
have watched that movie and enjoyed it and then like
a couple of years later to see Heather Donahue or
the last name Dona Hue, the lead actress of that movie, Uh,
playing opposite Freddy Prince Junior at a rom.

Speaker 6 (01:22:08):
Com What's that?

Speaker 3 (01:22:11):
What movie is that?

Speaker 6 (01:22:13):
When the last time Fredy Prince Junior made a movie
I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (01:22:15):
That's why I'm a.

Speaker 3 (01:22:17):
Long time It's it's it's a little bit longer than that.
But it's a movie called Boys and Girls. It's Freddy
Prince Junior and Claire four Laney and there's like this
awkward college student wearing a wig, a blonde wig or whatever.
And it's Heather Donahue.

Speaker 6 (01:22:34):
That's that's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
And and she's just she's trying to hit on Freddy
Prince Junior and everything, and I'm just like, I just
I can't.

Speaker 6 (01:22:42):
He's watching pissed. What Buffy's gonna be pissed?

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
Yeah, yeah, pretty much, because.

Speaker 4 (01:22:48):
That's how close Encounters of the Third kind. But you
saw this movie.

Speaker 3 (01:22:52):
I own this movie and I can recite it by heart.

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
Dave.

Speaker 4 (01:22:57):
Yeah, that's funny, because your movie choice has never ceased
to amaze me.

Speaker 6 (01:23:01):
Sometimes sometimes I'll be watching in an SVU. I can't.
This is the third reference I've made.

Speaker 4 (01:23:07):
To laud Su. Yeah, yeah, that's okay.

Speaker 6 (01:23:10):
And the other guy will the other guy will come on,
the guy that played not Josh, but the other.

Speaker 3 (01:23:18):
Guy, the guy that played Lunk or whatever. No, not
maybe watch John Lunk. I think was the Bear Wench
project yeah, and I.

Speaker 6 (01:23:25):
Think you're think you're in a different movie. But every
once in a while, like that episode will come on
of him and SVU when they were trying to make it.
And and it's really cool because there have been a
lot of recent articles because this is the twenty fifth anniversary,
and so it's kind of like all of those people,
all those actors, talk about how much this ruined their
lives and their active because they were beyond type cast

(01:23:49):
right like they were thought to they were. They had
to literally go out there and promote the movie as
if they were dead. So true. You know, it's it's
crazy though, because the best horror movies, the best hold,
let me rephrase that, the best horror media that's been

(01:24:10):
produced in the last ten years, We'll say is homage
to the Blair Witch Project. It is this analog corus stuff.
If you guys haven't watched things like the Mendela Catalog
or the what do you call it, the the Walton Files,

(01:24:31):
these things are genuinely creepy as hell, much more than
you're getting from Hollywood movies. My daughter and I are
currently writing our own analog horror about a teacher who
is essentially teaching we haven't quite figured out whether it's
going to be an urban legend class or whether it's

(01:24:52):
going to be something that's seemingly not connected. And through
a series of Zoom meetings and per some logs that
these did kids have to make, he is essentially making
them all run through challenges like the Momo challenge, like
the Blake Blake, Blue Whale, but instead of suicide at

(01:25:14):
the end of this they sell their soul to the devil.
And in today's day and age, a fifteen year old
can make that movie and can make it much better
than most of the movies that are out there. And
that's I think, kind of like what horror movies have lost.

(01:25:34):
Have you guys ever watched the show from I've just
started watching this show from and so it has it's
from Jack Bender and the other and one of the
other guys from last who made Lost, and Harold Perriman
you know who played who? You know who played the
Michael is the star of it. And the concept is

(01:25:56):
there's this town that once you enter, you can't leave.
Oh yeah, yeah. The second thing, yes, I've seen, Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:26:06):
I have seen that.

Speaker 4 (01:26:06):
Interesting. It's a very interesting concept.

Speaker 6 (01:26:08):
And it is the scariest thing that I have watched
on television maybe ever, like genuinely like this is really
scary stuff. Like it's kind of like Loft, Lost Lost,
Lost Lost, and then something really horror movie will happen.
Then it's almost no special effects. And and it's this idea.

(01:26:34):
I think that like if we think of our greatest
horror movies and we want to line them up, they're
going to be cheaply made ones, and they're not the
ones that are like over the top. Even like something
like get Out, uh does have like the whole effect
of like you know, the the low place or whatever
it is, and the but that's shot by cameras. That's

(01:26:55):
not even like really really special effects. I think that's
what what horror is because it taps into our fears,
and our fears are right there on the surface. Man,
you don't need cgi to get to them.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:27:06):
I never saw that as a horror movie, and I
still don't, and I've watched it a couple of times. Yeah,
I just don't see how that classifies as a horror movie.

Speaker 6 (01:27:14):
Well, I well, first of all, I think that it's
I think that it's the that it's the it's it's
a different version of the Texas Chainsaw massacre. Right, it's
just isolated on one person or a group of people,
as opposed to like a teens that go. But it's
kind of like, do you consider Silence of the Lambs
a horror movie?

Speaker 4 (01:27:35):
No more of a thriller?

Speaker 6 (01:27:37):
Yeah, you know, so it's it's that it kind of
lives in that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:27:41):
Yeah, yeah. So although it does have I guess the
part of it for me that makes it horror over
just a thriller is it has just enough science fiction
to it, so it's probably more a science fiction movie.
That doesn't isn't thought of the science fiction movie that
it is a horror movie. But I still think it's
great either way.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
You know what horror movie is better than all of them?
No thanks Killing, No, it's not.

Speaker 4 (01:28:10):
And it was neither that or Tire. It was gonna
do a rubber or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:28:13):
Rubber rubber, No thanks, killing is better than rubber.

Speaker 4 (01:28:19):
I don't know I have seen either of those movies.

Speaker 6 (01:28:22):
Oh, Chris, I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 5 (01:28:25):
Rubber is very interesting. See Killing the Killer Tire. Yeah,
it is so cheap the shot, but it has its moments.
I'm just gonna say it has its moments.

Speaker 6 (01:28:35):
So it's like it's like the tire version of Tackle
Killer Tomatoes kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (01:28:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just a sparit tire gets psychokinetic powers
and becomes sentient and just kind of rolls around and
blows up. It starts like vibrating and then like blows
up animals and stuff like that.

Speaker 6 (01:28:58):
Catch So it's like it's like the baby version of
Maximu over Drive. Like they haven't quite taken over the
whole car, but they've taken over at tire.

Speaker 4 (01:29:06):
Right, but they got ahold of a tire. Yeah, they're
really really working it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:09):
Yes, I got you. And thanks Killing is a homicidal
talking turkey follows four cliches college students home on Thanksgiving
break and tries to kill them all. I mean, it's amazing.
It's like it's the same story, right, It's like the
chest It's the son of the Texas Chainsaw mass it is.

(01:29:33):
It is.

Speaker 6 (01:29:33):
It's that idea of like, you know, teams and kids,
like everything's trying to kill them, whether it's my books
or you know, Judy Bloom or or it follows or tires,
you know, like it's all it's all there so it's
all there.

Speaker 4 (01:29:49):
Hey, did you ever, Chris, did you ever do any
research into like Centralia, Pennsylvania with the whole uh, Silent
Hill kind of thing as to whether or not there
was anything weird going on there or is it just
simply they caught on fire and yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:30:06):
It's are you talking about the one that's I know,
Silent Hill?

Speaker 4 (01:30:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:30:12):
Are you talking about like where they have those mines
that underneath the ground that are constantly on fire.

Speaker 4 (01:30:16):
Yeah, so the coal mines.

Speaker 5 (01:30:17):
In nineteen sixty two, somebody accidentally lit one of the
coal mines on fire where it kind of came up
to the surface. Yeah, that coal has just been smoldering
ever since, and so they had to evacuate the whole town.
But you know, there's been a lot of like day
trippers that have gone there that have documented some weird
stuff going on, even though it's obviously posted to stay
the hell lot of their first safety sake because the

(01:30:38):
ground's weak and given away. But I mean, so the
whole concept is because I loved the movie Silent Hill.
I saw it in the theater and I thought it
was absolutely phenomenal. Yeah, but I'm curious, like, is that
location do you think because of what's going on in
that location, there could be something like actually.

Speaker 4 (01:30:57):
Strange going on there.

Speaker 6 (01:30:58):
Well, first of all, that is right, Like, I mean
you could just because you can say that there's some
science behind it doesn't mean it's not crazy, right, Like,
what's really weird is that, in addition to an episode
of Mister Balin and an episode of I can't remember
the name of it, that is the fourth time that's
been referenced to me in like the last two weeks.

Speaker 4 (01:31:21):
Wow.

Speaker 6 (01:31:21):
So I don't know if there's a something in the
air or something, you know, some kind of smoke in
the air about that. You know, it's it's interesting I
think that like if because we don't know like the
before of that, right, right, we don't know if there
were ghostly legends kind of in that area before. And
so no matter what happens from now until the end

(01:31:43):
of time, anything that paranormal is gonna happen there is
gonna be connected to those fires.

Speaker 4 (01:31:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:31:51):
And then because it's so off what's normal for us,
you're gonna have the people who say the government conspiracy,
you know, like and all these things, and so those
kinds of things which happened and their freak occurrences become
the foundations for why we believe in ghosts and why

(01:32:12):
we believe in the paranormal, and why we're able to
make up conspiracy theories, right because like, this stuff shouldn't
be able to happen unless someone orchestrated it. Or if
this kind of thing happened there, what else could be
happening there? So if I really like to hear about
those places, and then you start to hear other stories
that are in the surrounding area that are connected to it.

(01:32:34):
So I haven't done any specific research on it, but
now something is telling me that I need to.

Speaker 4 (01:32:39):
Yeah, it sounds like it.

Speaker 5 (01:32:40):
Yeah, I mean, it's very hard to light a coal
mine on fire, you know, right, I'm just saying right
like it was supposedly it was like some kids that
recklessly were just out like camping on the edge of town,
and it was you know, like where there was like
a little cave in dens and in the coal vein
had come up to the surface, and they but the
campfire out properly and blah blah blah, right, and then

(01:33:02):
all of a sudden, now it starts as coal vein
on fire, and now like it's hell under hell under
this town with this coal vein just burning and small,
but it's been doing it since nineteen sixty two. Like,
how big is this goddamn coal vein? Yeah, I mean
we have how is it still burning sixty years later?

Speaker 6 (01:33:20):
It's a long time.

Speaker 4 (01:33:21):
It's so long time.

Speaker 6 (01:33:23):
In Florida, we have towns that are known for just
constantly being on fire. Well that's Florida, though, because well,
I mean, the conditions are there for fires to exist
a lot of time. Now. The crazy thing is is
that I think when I first heard it, and it
wasn't the Mister Ballin episode, it was the other podcast,
not that there are other podcasts other than yours, but

(01:33:47):
it was it was I can't remember the name of
I'm losing the name of it right now, but I
remember typing the name into a search, and I think
it's right near Duffy's Cut, which is another abandoned town
in that area. So that's when you start to be like,
is something going on that, Like something is keeping them

(01:34:08):
from this area because this place, which was called Duffy's
Cut had I mean, the story is entirely different. It's
just all these people, miners who have these forestry, you know,
lumberjacks who like someone might have killed them all or
one of them went crazy or so it's a similar story.
I don't want to get the I don't want to
say the details because I'm gonna get them wrong. But
I remember at the time when I was first hearing it,

(01:34:28):
being like, this isn't too far from Duffy's cut, So
I think what the story really is there is like
why is that whole section of Pennsylvania all screwed up?
Like what's going on there? That there are multiple stories
of these abandoned towns there, right that we can track.

Speaker 4 (01:34:45):
You know, it's not it's.

Speaker 6 (01:34:49):
Happened like, you know, a thousand years ago, so we
don't know what's going on, right, you know, they're a
documented this documentation. Yes, I know Roanoke didn't really happen
a thousand years ago. It's far enough back though that
it's hard to research, right, I mean accuracy. It was
so yeah, it was so self contained that we don't
have any records of the people of Roanoke, whereas in
those towns we have very specific first hand accounts that

(01:35:12):
were written down that we know of.

Speaker 4 (01:35:13):
So sure, yeah, I mean in nineteen sixty two, is
a have a lot more recent than Ronoke was. It
is I was almost born then, I was almost born myself.

Speaker 6 (01:35:23):
Yeah wait, how old are you.

Speaker 4 (01:35:26):
Born?

Speaker 3 (01:35:26):
Wow?

Speaker 6 (01:35:26):
Okay, so you were, Yeah, you were. You were closer
than me.

Speaker 4 (01:35:28):
I was just kind of sixty sixty five sixty when
I was born. Yeah, cool.

Speaker 3 (01:35:33):
Yeah, I wasn't even close.

Speaker 6 (01:35:37):
Yeah, I was just being nice. I was born in
seventy five.

Speaker 4 (01:35:39):
So yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:35:41):
So speaking of Ronoke, because I mean, one of the
things that we wanted to talk about with things you
know that you have researched and whatnot, and that's never
been brought up with you. Dave and I have talked
about Roanoke before, but have you ever looked into it?

Speaker 6 (01:35:53):
My daughter is obsessed with Roanoke. Well, get her on,
I really should. She could probably nail this. I mean,
I'm familiar in it that I remember being like a
seven eight year old and having the same obsession that
my daughter had as a kid with it, like what

(01:36:13):
exactly is this? And then my kids for a while,
I shouldn't even say for a while because if I
put it on, they'll both turn into zombies. Were huge
fans of BuzzFeed Unsolved and BuzzFeed Unsolved had an episode
on it, and they'll literally watch that episode like five
or six times in a row trying to crack what

(01:36:37):
happened in Roanoke, because if it's as if they are
going to like get the one detail that's gonna piece
the whole thing together. And if you've never watched that
BuzzFeed Unsolved episode of Ronoke, you should watch it because
they bring in some interesting facts that even I didn't
know about, like the maps and how the map was

(01:36:57):
like they discovered the map had been drawn over. Stuff
like that. You need to watch it. They're gonna do
much more justice to it than I could. But I
love that because I feel it's one of those things
that's right in front of our face that if you
can click that one little thing, you'd get the whole
story and you'd be like, Oh, I get it. That's
just what happened. It's totally normal where it's totally explainable,

(01:37:22):
but because we can't because there is no documentation, because
there are just enough elements. And that's a really good
example of that bias. Whereas if you think it was
aliens that took those people, you're gonna find evidence of
aliens taking both people right, and if you think it

(01:37:43):
was like a zombie apocalypse, which is one of the
going theories which doesn't make any sense, there is enough
evidence that says it could potentially be like a zombie
invasion that happened and that became isolated to that island.
And so I really love that idea. And we were
actually going to take a road trip back in the

(01:38:05):
day one summer, and we had planned out, and we
have a whole episode of the show where we talk
about that, and one of the places we talked about
was Roanoke because my kids were obsessed with it, and
so my daughter kind of got a choice and my
son got a choice, and so my daughter picked Roanoke,
and then my son, who was a lot cooler back
then than he is now, picked tracking down the supernatural

(01:38:31):
urban legend of the Almond Brothers, And so we were
going to travel all the way up there, and then
we were going to make our way to Mississippi and
see if we could sell our soul to the devil
at the Crossroads. So that was like a whole trip
we had planned that. Unfortunately, then COVID hit and we
had to settle for going through the book of you know,

(01:38:53):
ghosts in your machine and doing all those legends inside
the house, which was its own trip.

Speaker 4 (01:38:59):
Well, you could have gone to the crossroads because it
probably wouldn't have been that populated.

Speaker 6 (01:39:03):
Yeah, it's getting from here to there, like Florida. Like
at that time, it was like so intense, like you
weren't even able to go to gas stations without wearing
pasthmat suits and stuff. So it would have been tough
to and you couldn't stay anywhere. We've had to stay
in the car. So that was the only issue with it.

Speaker 3 (01:39:22):
Okay, well you don't know this person, Chris, but but
Dave does. So we have a friend who just knows
everything about the about like the spiritual world and uh
like Bigfoot and UFOs and spirits and stuff. So I
just asked her what happened to the people of Roanoke.

Speaker 6 (01:39:43):
Yeah, so we'll see what she's she said, and she said,
zombie aliens.

Speaker 3 (01:39:49):
No, No, she hasn't responded yet.

Speaker 4 (01:39:50):
I don't know zombie aliens.

Speaker 6 (01:39:53):
I might as well combined little little column a little
column bee.

Speaker 5 (01:39:56):
I think zombie beavers. Because it's an island, there's probably
a lot of beavers there. So I'm thinking zombieaver. That's
probably where the original idea for the zombiever what we
came from.

Speaker 6 (01:40:05):
Maybe.

Speaker 4 (01:40:07):
By the way, have you guys seen that?

Speaker 3 (01:40:09):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (01:40:10):
I know that you guys have a lot more free
time on your hands than I do.

Speaker 5 (01:40:15):
It's actually it's actually pretty hilarious.

Speaker 4 (01:40:18):
Well it's horrible, but it's actually like hilariously funny. Yeah, yeah,
it's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:40:24):
It's thanks killing horrible is what you're saying, but with
a beaver, with a beaver.

Speaker 2 (01:40:30):
So he.

Speaker 3 (01:40:34):
So there there's an episode of Sleepy Hollow which is great,
which is a great, great, great show. Love the writing
of that and everything that dealt with rowing Ouk. Yeah,
where you know they kind of you know, the whole
Wonder Woman thing where there was like this you know,
cloaking type thing around around the around the town. I mean,

(01:40:55):
do you think that has anybody thrown any sort of
of thought processes behind that type of theory.

Speaker 6 (01:41:04):
I've heard dimensional theories used, but not necessarily like a
pocket universe like there's still roanoking, like some kind of
parallel universe or some kind of pocket like they've existed
and like because there would be you know, more inbreeding
than is normal for that area if they were in
their own pocket universe. But I have heard of Rowanoke

(01:41:29):
being like like a.

Speaker 4 (01:41:30):
Slip, like a slip between the two worlds and dimensions.

Speaker 6 (01:41:32):
And those people somehow entering another dimension and maybe even
coming out someplace else, and that I can buy into.
By the way, did you know did you know Sleepy
Hollow how to crossover with the TV show Bones.

Speaker 3 (01:41:50):
Something that I've seen. I own Bones and I own
Sleepy Hollow, and I've never seen an episode with them
both combined.

Speaker 6 (01:42:00):
There's an episode where they're doing their whole thing and
in walk the people from Sleepy Hollow, and from what
I gather, it was a crossover, and that there's an
episode of Sleepy Hollow with Bones and Booths in it.
I'm telling you, I'm telling you no. Now there might
be an episode of Bones. I don't know every single

(01:42:22):
episode of Bones, but I on the entire series of
Sleepy holitich I've watched three times. There is no episode
they definitely were on Bones with Bones and Booths the
Bones episode, So okay then, because my daughter was like,
what the hell is this and I'm like, I think,
I think this is that show that was on like

(01:42:43):
Sleepy Hollow and then we're big IMDb fans, and so
I looked it right up and it said it was
a crossover. So crossovers usually.

Speaker 1 (01:42:49):
Mean that.

Speaker 3 (01:42:52):
That they're yeah, well it was not, I assure you,
because I would have lost my f in mind.

Speaker 6 (01:43:00):
And it's a bad enough episode. That was one of
the episodes of Bones that my daughter went online to
see if anything important with the whole continuality of the
show is important, and if it's not, she goes, We're
just gonna skip it, dude, Like this is just plain silly.

Speaker 3 (01:43:16):
It's a nice try there, you go, So, huh.

Speaker 5 (01:43:21):
While we're on the while we're on the kind of
roll here with like shows and movies and stuff, did
you ever watch Fringe when it came out?

Speaker 6 (01:43:30):
I am, I literally am the only person you know
who right over there. I have a T shirt that
says Massive Dynamics and no one gets the reference. Fringe
to me is one of the top five television shows
of all time. I am so ridiculously obsessed. It goes

(01:43:51):
like The West Wing, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Fringe and
Fringe and Lost and then like maybe Saint Elsewhere, which
you guys are going I don't even know what Saint
Elsewhere is.

Speaker 3 (01:44:05):
I know what st elsewere airs. I'm I'm like, my
face is twitching because I can't even imagine why that
would be on your list.

Speaker 6 (01:44:11):
Have you watched sat first of all, okay, talking about
the Blair Wit project, right, every single hospital procedural after
Saint Elsewhere is just doing what Saint Elsewhare.

Speaker 3 (01:44:24):
Did in the earth House House is amazing.

Speaker 6 (01:44:27):
Really, I mean, I love house. I love House Sat
Else Dude, Young Denzel Washington, Mark Harmon, Howie Mandel.

Speaker 3 (01:44:36):
Come on, you lost me in Howie Mandel.

Speaker 6 (01:44:38):
Sorry there are there's an episode of Saint Elsewhere where
Howie Mandel gets.

Speaker 3 (01:44:44):
Shot excellent choice, and he goes.

Speaker 6 (01:44:47):
Through heaven hell in purgatory nice and it is such
a dynamic, amazing episode. And then of course he ends
up meeting God and God is him because we're a
reflection of God and so it's God Howie Mandel with
this regular Howie Mandel having a conversation about the universe.
It is crazy and the whole thing now, if you

(01:45:09):
want to, I'm looking at your eye right now. And
anyone who's really the ghost and not this stuff is
being annoyed it has turned off. But technically, right, Saint
Elsewhere is the foundation of Cheers, homicide, Life on the Street,
all the Law and Orders, and like a few other

(01:45:31):
the X Files. Right, so you're you're if Saint Else's
characters from Saint Elseware appeared on all of those other shows. Right, So,
if you know anything about Saint Elsewhere, it has one
of the most surprising finales ever, where it's revealed that
none of it is true and it's all in the

(01:45:53):
mind of an autistic child who makes lost stories about
the hospital as he's looking out the window waiting for
his father come home. That means the universes of The
X Files, Law and Order, homicide, life on the Streets,
they're all in this autistic boy's mind too, which means

(01:46:14):
they don't exist. Munch on that.

Speaker 3 (01:46:19):
Yeah, I don't need to. That's just that's just terrible writing,
is what that is. But it's just pre Lost, right.

Speaker 6 (01:46:32):
Years before Lost.

Speaker 3 (01:46:33):
Like you know, I never watched Loss either.

Speaker 6 (01:46:35):
So anyway, Fringe, huge fan of fridd, huge huge fan
of JA I like to me, even the Star Wars stuff.
JJ can do no wrong, So like he's not my
favorite creators.

Speaker 3 (01:46:49):
I I'm going to agree that Fringe is very, very good.
I've recently watched it, so it's very fresh in my mind.
Loved the first three seasons. They lost me in season
four and they very very much lost me in season.

Speaker 4 (01:47:02):
Five, much like Evil.

Speaker 3 (01:47:08):
Much like Evil.

Speaker 6 (01:47:09):
What I like about Fringe is every time you were
comfortable with the series, the series said screw you and
did something to throw you off balance. No, and changed
what it was.

Speaker 3 (01:47:22):
It was just terrible, terrible writing.

Speaker 6 (01:47:24):
All right, we will agree to disagree on that.

Speaker 3 (01:47:27):
Yes we will. And I will say this, it took
us almost two hours, but we made full circle because
we came back to Evil.

Speaker 6 (01:47:36):
I always trying to book at my things.

Speaker 3 (01:47:39):
So but one of the last things that we're going
to talk about, and it is kind of what you're doing,
one of the things that you were doing now, and
that is you are a guide at a ghost tour.

Speaker 6 (01:47:53):
Yeah, although I'm supposed to say haunted History tour, Haunted history,
very distinctly make it that you come from the history
and get spooked a little bit. Yeah, it's crazy. It's so.
I I would never consider myself an alpha male, right,
I can see that, but I definitely have have realized

(01:48:17):
that I'm a dominant personality, and I kind of overtake
situations that I'm in right, thank you, and I have
to I have to go to terms with that. So
when the new year started, one of the things that
I wanted to do is I wanted to be more humble,
because I think in the paranormal world, you can get

(01:48:38):
to a point where you've consumed so much and you've
experienced so much, whether you're investigating or researching and all
this stuff, where you can kind of get set in
your ways and you can look at like a new
idea and you can say, why would I even listen
to You've been doing this for a year.

Speaker 3 (01:48:56):
Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about myself.

Speaker 6 (01:48:58):
Yeah, And I found myself being overly critical of everything
else in the paranormal that wasn't me right, and so
I was like that, I don't want to be like that, Like,
I don't want to be overly cynical about these other things.
There's good stuff, there's bad stuff, Like things should be

(01:49:20):
consumed and then you decide whether it was good right like.
And so part of what I wanted to do is
I wanted to I wanted to surrender myself to someone
else's story, right, So tell someone else's story and kind
of like not think right. And so I was asked

(01:49:42):
to do this ghost tour and there was a script
and everything like that, and I was like, how cool
would it be just to walk around for an hour
and a half. Maybe I can take off some of
this weight. Maybe I can meet some hot girls on
the tour, or at the very least get people who
are talking ghosts and maybe have a ghost story share.
And I don't have to think right, Like the ghost

(01:50:03):
stories are already there. I don't have to research them.
And it took me about a week before I had
to rewrite the scripts. So I was like, okay, it
was written by like a twenty two year old waitress,
and I've got no problem with rache old waitresses. She's hot.
She got like five times more tips than I knew

(01:50:24):
doing the tour. But me and my partner, who by
the way, full circle, is that same woman who asked
who introduced me to the director of Blair Witch project,
we're now good friends. Her and I joined at the
same time, and she herself is a writer and a filmmaker,
and so we were like, these aren't stories, Like they're

(01:50:46):
just kind of, here's the history, here's a ghost experience,
here's a joke to minimize what you're what, and let's
go to the next place. And so we actually ended
up taking those stories and crafting them into actual ghost stories, right,
And it's kind of it was interesting because they're not

(01:51:07):
interesting places, right, Like the tour itself. This isn't the
Key West tour where you end up hanging out with
Robert right or or the Savannah. I've heard the Savannah tour.
Ghost tours really good. You were talking about there a
whole bunch of the Twin Cities. It's not a bad tour,
but nothing happens, right, Like, you can't go into any

(01:51:29):
of the buildings. You can't. You can't really some of them.
You can't even go on the steps. You have to
do the story from like across the street. And so
how do you have somebody understand what someone else experienced
right there without them being able to go inside?

Speaker 5 (01:51:49):
Right?

Speaker 6 (01:51:50):
And there are a lot of ghost tours that bring
out equipment. Uh, there is now a competing tour in
Fort Myers, which is how it's Fort Myers, Florida, that
are you know, it's it's you. What's the US Ghost Adventures.
It's like essentially what it does is it's like this
massive corporation. It's the one that owns the Lizzie Bordon House. Now,

(01:52:13):
it's like this massive corporation that just sets up ghost
tours in every.

Speaker 3 (01:52:19):
City in the Ghost USA or whatever. Yeah, exactly, And
so they send people out with equipment, right, And our
tour is kind of like it's history first, and we
don't say anything unless it's been verified by three at
least three different sources, right, And so.

Speaker 6 (01:52:42):
We can't we don't make crazy claims and we can't
and we're not going in and you're not gonna get
EVPs and you're not and so how do you make
that interesting?

Speaker 5 (01:52:51):
Right?

Speaker 6 (01:52:51):
And so that was a unique challenge for me because
I'm walking around for ninety minutes in ninety degree heat
with a group of people that could be up to
thirty people, and I've got to keep them entertained being like,
see that building over there, something happened, Like here's the
history behind it, and here's a ghost story. And so

(01:53:12):
I really like the tour because I have it's almost
like a comedian right, like when I'm speaking in front
of a whole bunch of people. I've already gotten my money,
like at a library, right, I'm hoping that they buy
a book afterwards. But I'm telling a story, and if

(01:53:33):
I can get a few people to like it, it's
it's good. It works when you've got like twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,
up to thirty people walking around a city with you,
and you have to keep them entertained, and you've got
to be faithful to the source material, but you also
have to change it based on the attitudes of the

(01:53:55):
people around you. Reading the room, yeah, reading the room,
it's a whole whole different game. Like last night at
a tour, and there weren't many people, but at the
beginning they had gotten there so early that we were
just like shooting the crap and everyone was extremely sarcastic, right,
and everyone was kind of loving this sarcastic atmosphere that

(01:54:17):
we were in. Well, how am I now supposed to
go out and be overly serious? So on the fly
I had to bring out my natural Northeast sarcasm and
like add that to the ghost tours. You know, there's
a really cool ghost tour story. So you probably have
some place like this, but there's this street in Fort Myers.

Speaker 4 (01:54:41):
Called McGregor Boulevard, right, and.

Speaker 6 (01:54:45):
McGregor Boulevard leads into like the end of McGregor Boulevard
is a Thomas Edison estates. So Edison is huge down
here in southwest Florida. Right, Like this is where he
came and lived towards the end of his life. And
you know Ford him Ford became best friends down there
and blah blah blah. So they're these huge estates called
the Edison Florida States. That's at the end of Gregor Boulevard. Well,

(01:55:08):
when they first made McGregor Boulevard, they had to find
the material and they had just come up I shouldn't
say they had just come up with, but this kind
of texture and design where the water would slide off, right,
And because if you're in southwest Florida, like it rains
here every day for a few hours. So they had

(01:55:30):
to find this very specific shell in rock. And so
they went across the Cousahatchie River to this place called
Swords Island or Swords Point, and they started digging for
this shell and almost immediately they found skeletons, right, and

(01:55:51):
so being Florida, and then in nineteen thirteen. They just
dug up all of the graves, ground up all the
boat owns, and laid down McGregor Boulevard. So there's all
this crazy stuff that happens on that stretch of road, right,
And so it's a great story. It was the only

(01:56:11):
story I knew about this area where I live before
I started doing the tour, Like it's that infamous. And
so I'm doing the research because I'm writing a Book's
Haunted Southwest Florida, and I've been doing the tour now
for like six seven months. And in the tour it
says there are one hundred and eight skeletons, right, And

(01:56:34):
so I'm doing all this research and I'm going back
and all I can find is the number fifty four,
the number fifty seven, Like, how the hell are we
getting one hundred and eight? We say one hundred and
in on the tour. She's a woman, does her research,
she's a historian, like she's not a ghost story person.
I find a reference to one hundred and three, I'm like, okay,

(01:56:54):
I don't really take one hundred and three number two seriously,
Like I'm good with the fifty seven. The fifty seven
can prove so if I'm gonna tell the ghost story, like,
but where the hell is this one hundred and eight
coming from? There are a few references, And what it
happened was someone had typed up the script and made
notes on it and used it for so many years

(01:57:17):
that the three looked like an eight. So the next person,
because they never kept a digital file who typed up
the story, looked at the one hundred and three and
thought it was one hundred and eight. And for the
last decade they've been saying one hundred and eight based
on a clerical error. And if that's not the nature

(01:57:37):
of friggin' folklore, I don't know what is right. It's
crazy and I love that story as the folklore ist
in me loves it. The paranormal investigators side of me
loved like the legend tripper side of me loves it
because you can go down that road and you can
hang out with some some ghost hitchhikers. No redheaded hitchhiker,

(01:57:59):
but a hitchhiker. Right, You can't go when you can
like this other It hits like all the different buttons,
and it's really the foundation of like the history of
Fort Myers is on that road and so it's like
that kind of stuff to me is really cool and
I really like doing the tour, not so much the
people that yell at me from all corners of the

(01:58:21):
of the of the street, because it's a very active,
like lively area of downtown. And it's not like the
homeless people or crackheads or methaddicts who are yelling at me.
It's just like really drunk people who are in Florida
for a vacation who are coming from Michigan and Minnesota
and Wisconsin, who then like are yelling at me from

(01:58:45):
across the street leg hey girls, guy, and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (01:58:49):
That makes it really fun.

Speaker 5 (01:58:51):
So that sounds more like a Wisconsin accent than a
Minnesota accent.

Speaker 6 (01:58:55):
So I'm just gonna say, I don't know Wisconsin. That's
why it's Minnesota and Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 (01:58:59):
I got.

Speaker 6 (01:59:01):
You missed it. We had a whole thing about that
before you came on, but you're still trying to get
your camera working.

Speaker 3 (01:59:06):
So that does it for this episode. So h for
anybody who wants to maybe come on the tour, who
wants to buy one of your books, you know, who
wants to listen to you know, what's.

Speaker 6 (01:59:23):
Anyone after this two hours that still wants anything to
do with me, that'd be great. Yes, best place you
can go, uh, Facebook dot com, backslash Tripping on Legends.
Tripping on Legends dot com is the actual website. If
you just type in, We're on every single platform from Spotify, iTunes, iHeartRadio.

(01:59:44):
It just type in Tripping on Legends or type in
my name, you're gonna find it. And then, of course,
if you're looking for an autograph copy of my book, uh,
you can reach out to me on any of my
social media platforms.

Speaker 3 (01:59:55):
But is there any is there any other kind of
versions of your book that then be autographed?

Speaker 6 (02:00:02):
Well, yeah, you just go and get on Amazon. No
I'm not. I'm not in an Amazon warehouse across the
country signing my book.

Speaker 3 (02:00:08):
But I just figured that you were just there when
they came off the press, you know.

Speaker 6 (02:00:14):
Yeah, Well, you know, I try to be a little
a little try to be everywhere at once, but unfortunately
I have to do interviews with the audience, so I
can't be Yeah, I can't be and Hoboken and.

Speaker 3 (02:00:28):
And the next time you come on, you'll talk about
your research into the Silent Hill area.

Speaker 6 (02:00:33):
You're giving me homework I'm the teacher here.

Speaker 3 (02:00:38):
I'm all right with that.

Speaker 5 (02:00:39):
We're nudging you in the We're nudging you softly in
the direction encouraged Pennsylvania. You guys are my muse. There
you go, and you you are my inspiration.

Speaker 3 (02:00:50):
Mister Paul Zano, you give me to my life too,
all right? Uh that does brus this week, Chris, Thank
you for coming on once.

Speaker 6 (02:00:59):
Thank you very much for talk tolerating me.

Speaker 3 (02:01:01):
Oh, it's always such a pleasure. We'll be back next
week with another new episode. Until then, stay healthy, stay safe.
I want to see you back here. Have a great night.

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Episode 310 - Christopher Balzano

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 310 - Christopher Balzano