The Heart-to-Heart Episode: A Conversation With My Sweetie

Step into a heartfelt and intimate episode of The Pain Game Podcast as Lyndsay Soprano celebrates her 100th episode with her favorite person on the planet—her sweetie, Bill Handel. Known for his illustrious career as a top talk show radio personality and host of the nationally syndicated show "Handel on the Law," Bill joins Lyndsay to delve into the complexities of living with chronic pain and trauma from the perspective of loved ones.

In this special episode, Lyndsay and Bill open up about their unique and unexpected relationship, the challenges they've faced, and the strength they've found in each other. They discuss the emotional toll of chronic pain, the impact of stress, and the importance of a supportive partnership. Bill shares his struggles with feeling helpless and the profound love that keeps them going, while Lyndsay reflects on the significance of giving her pain purpose and the transformative power of their journey together.

This episode is a touching tribute to the resilience of love and the importance of having a strong support system when dealing with chronic pain and trauma. It's a must-listen for anyone seeking insight, inspiration, and a deeper understanding of the role loved ones play in the healing process.

Find Bill Handel Online Here:

Instagram: @billhandelshow
Facebook: The Bill Handel Show
Website: thebillhandelshowpodcast.com
Podcast: The Bill Handel Show Podcast

Episode Highlights:

(00:00) This is your pain game podcast about living with chronic pain and trauma
(02:00) Introduction to Bill Handel and his impressive career
(05:30) Celebrating the 100th episode with Lyndsay's sweetie
(10:00) The emotional and physical toll of chronic pain on relationships
(15:45) The importance of a supportive partnership
(20:30) The impact of stress on pain and well-being
(25:50) Bill's perspective on watching Lyndsay suffer
(30:05) The transformative power of giving pain purpose
(35:40) Practical strategies for managing stress and pain
(40:20) The significance of a supportive team in managing chronic pain
(45:55) Reflections on their journey together and future plans
(50:30) Final thoughts and words of encouragement for listeners

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
This is your Pain Game podcast wherewe talk about the game of living in
and with chronic pain and trauma getinto the heart of how to heal.
I am your host, Lindsay Soprano. On the show, I plan on
discussing with doctors, chronic pain patients, holistic practitioners, loved ones, and
anybody that is interested in having theirvoice heard in the chronic pain and trauma

(00:27):
world that we live in. Youknow, it's not every day that you
get to wake up and interview yourfavorite person on the planet. For those
of you who have listened to myshow, this love child of mine,

(00:51):
you know about my sweetie, theunnamed the mystery Man, if you will.
He has been weaved in some wayway into every episode and story that
I tell from episode one until today. So today, my sweetie and I
are going to celebrate my one hundredthepisode of the Pain Game podcast together and

(01:11):
with you. And as someone whohas lived a life full of risk,
the biggest risk that I've taken ishim. It's been crazy, it's been
amazing, it's been penetrating, it'sbeen fustrating, it's been everything that you
could possibly want in any kind ofrelationship and We've had a most unexpected relationship,

(01:34):
you know, and love quite frankly, that turned our lives, both
of our lives and the lives ofothers well, I mean upside now.
I think you would probably agree withthat. We've lost friends and some family
along the way, but nobody wasgoing to get in our way, because
nothing in this universe is better thanfall in love with someone entirely with your

(01:59):
whole being. And I mean that'sus. And I know it's totally gross.
I mean it's like so gross,and he's gonna barf. I can't
even believe we're not even nearing barfingsounds out of him yet. But everybody
knows that when you are in thedeep of something, you are in the
thick of it that's all encompassing,you do lose the grasp of how you

(02:19):
affect others. So today's episode,you know, we haven't heard on this
show from our loved ones. Wehaven't heard about their side of our chronic
pain, right and the effects ofour past traumas on our pain, on
surgeries, on whatever it is.We haven't talked about you. We haven't
given you a voice, And Ifeel like those people who live beside us

(02:42):
and love with us and put upwith our debilitating pain and trauma. They
need a voice and it's a devastatingposition for anybody to be in. And
I don't know anybody better to talkto you about this than with my sweetie
today. So without further ado,I would like to introduce you to my
sweetie. He does actually have aname, Bill Handle. Hey, babe,

(03:05):
Hello. You know I'm probably gonnacry, of course, you are
well. We started and before wedid a practice run real quick to make
sure sound was okay. How longdid it take me to start to cry?
Ten seconds? Ten? While you'regiving me ten minds for you,
You guys immediately started crying. Isaid, well, okay, we haven't
gone too long into this before westart crying. But then that's what you

(03:27):
do. You cry a lot,thank you and a good way most of
the time, so it's entertaining tosay the least kind of nice. And
you're in touch with your feelings,sir, I'm in touch with my feeling
You are well. I mean someone'sgot to be in this household's true.
All right, I'm going to doa little bragging about you, and then
we're going to get into this Sofor those of you who do not know
Bill Handle, he is one ofthe top talk show radio personalities in the

(03:51):
United States, broadcasting since nineteen eightyfive. And how old was I in
nineteen eighty five? As you're constantlyreminded Carrie the one, he is overly
educated. He is an attorney andthird party reproductive law. He is also
the host of the nationally syndicated showHandling the Law, which has become a

(04:13):
staple on over two hundred plus radiostations nationwide. He also has so many
awards, I'm not going to listall of them, but for me,
I mean, he's in. Hehas a star on the Hollywood Walk of
Fame, which everybody thinks is supercool, and it is he was.
But really importantly, he was inductedin the Radio Hall of Fame in twenty
seventeen, amongst many other awards.Years earlier, and a few months ago

(04:35):
he was given the Award for BroadcastLegend Award from the Radio Television and News
Association. And those are just afew of reasons that I love him.
So I'm rolling out the red carpetfor you, honey, and I'd like
to start kind of talking to youabout what hardest thing is for you dealing
with my pain? And I don'teven know if it's like today or if

(04:57):
it's an overall kind of a question. I'd like to hear from you about
what's your hardest thing. Let's takeit from there, well, both today
and overall, and just I don'tknow if there was the single hardest thing,
but I'll tell you the hardest thingsis watching you in pain, watching
you suffer, trying to do somethingabout it, and feeling helpless. That

(05:21):
is really difficult, as many peoplewho live with loved ones who deal with
pain, and the well and thegood side is just watching you deal with
it, because, as I've said, you're many times, you're a trooper,
You're magnificent, and it's just it'sdifficult. You know, it's difficult
being with someone that you love whereyou can't do anything about it and you

(05:45):
desperately want to, Yeah, becauseit's hard. I mean, you want
to help me. And I'm sucha pusher through. You know, I
never look like I'm in pain unlessI'm like, in so much pain it's
nuts, and you know I fakeit a lot. And when it comes
to the part of my diagnosis,like what scares you the most about it,
and don't hold back. No,no, I won't. What scares

(06:09):
me the most is getting worse foryou. You know, and we travel
and you have to walk any kindof distance. You're in a wheelchair,
which is great for airports because we'realways at the front of the line.
We do leverage it. Yeah,yeah. And you know anything where someone
or we have to stand up fora long period of time, museums walk

(06:31):
slowly, it's the wheelchair, andthat's that's difficult, and it's I think
one of the most difficult things isnot only feeling helpless, but since you
are such a trooper, is seeingyou go in the other room or I'll
run into you and maybe I'm lookingat you peripherally and you're in such pain

(06:51):
that you're crying and you don't wantto share that with me. That's very,
very difficult to see. Well,well, it's hard to do,
and you know, because I hidea lot. Yeah, I mean it's
part of my personality type too,though, you know. But I think
we've come to get we've cut We'vecome a long way. I mean when

(07:12):
you think about when we first,when we first did this whole thing,
you and I. You know,we're talking about seven years ago and my
pain I was already diagnosed, andit was so small, you know,
when you think about my pain levelat that point, it was so it
was minuscule, but it was there, and it started to have its own
voice, and then it started toget a larger voice. And you've always

(07:34):
been like not that you've been haphazardabout it or not that you've been like,
well, it's going to be fine, but there's an element that I
think that helps me where you arekind of like, it's going to be
okay, it's going to be fine. Everything. We got it, our
line, we got it, wegot it. But I feel like there's

(07:55):
some parts of that that I feelis almost like you're not processing what's going
on with me as much as youshould. And I think a lot of
it is I don't want to processoh well that's nothing new. I well,
yeah, but in this instance,specifically because it is so traumatic for

(08:16):
you, the pain, and sometimesit is so profound and debilitating, I
am at a complete loss for evenhow we having to deal with it.
And we've been together a long time, and you know, I can blow
things off, and you know Ican compart momentalize, and I'll look at
something else and look at you andsay You'll be okay because I don't want

(08:37):
to deal with it. You dealwith it every moment because it's you.
It's easier for me not to dealwith it than dealing with and watching you.
It hurts, you know, Isuffer, not clearly as much as
you do because I don't undergo thepain. But you know, it's it's
a tough way to go. Itreally is for both of us, more

(08:58):
so for you, as I said, and you do a very good job
of working with me and trying tohelp me and work through all of these
I mean, between doctor's appointments andall the wu woo stuff that in the
beginning you were like, there's nofreaking way this woo woo crap is going
to work. How do you feelabout that these days? Well, for

(09:20):
the most part, I still thinkwu wo is woo wuo and it's complete
bullshit, except for the fact I'veseen it kind of work for you.
Right, We've tried everything else.I've seen you through virtually every western medical
approach that there is, and noone knows what the hell they're talking about
with the RPS. I mean medicalscience. It's just not a disease that

(09:45):
number one can be diagnosed easily.No, certainly can't be dealt with easily,
no drugs out there. It's oneof those diseases that so few people
actually have them. You'll never seethe pharmaceutical companies jumping in and doing researchers.
Enough money, enough people out there, that's right, yeah, because
it's super rare. But gosh,so when it comes to helping me through

(10:07):
all of these, all of thesethings, all of the woo, all
of that, what do you thinkare some of the main contributing factors to
my pain? I am everybody thatknows this is like, yes, yes,
that's sure, sure, well,I think the contributing factors to your

(10:28):
pain other than me. And bythe way, I'm not exaggerating, you
know, I do things that affectyou. Stress affects you dramatically. I
mean I see that A equals Bor A plus B equals C. I
can see it right in front ofmy face when that happens. A lot
of stress means a lot of pain. Lower stress means lower pain. And

(10:50):
so unfortunately, because of the wayI roll, because of demands that I
make I don't know if you've talkedabout this before on the show, but
I am basically useless as a humanbeing. No, well, certain no,
you haven't. But certainly in thesense of I have always made a
very good living, and I've alwayshad people do everything for me. I've

(11:13):
paid people to do it. Assomeone once told me, Bill, you
would pay someone to wipe your ass, I go, I certainly would.
I know, and I do it. It is not fun. Well,
it is not yet. Not yet. We'll get there. Years, we'll
get there. We'll get there becausewe're going back to the age difference when

(11:33):
we started. But and you've takenover that entire role. You've effectively become
everybody and taken care of me extraordinarilywell, I mean across the board,
emotionally, certainly business wise, managingmy life, our life. So there's
a lot there. And whenever stresscomes into the picture, and I personally

(11:56):
cause a lot of stress, myfamily causes a lot of stress to a
certainly, the circumstances of us beingtogether in this journey that we've taken,
which is astounding when you look atwhat has happened to us, all of
that giving you stress and there's thepain. There's the pain that two were
connected, and the fact that Isometimes add to the pain is horrific for

(12:20):
me. You know, lots ofguilt, Jewish guilt that you said,
Jewish Guilt Olympics. Yeah, Iam a gold medalist in the Jewish Guilt
Olympics. He's got twenty of them. I certainly do lots of gold medals.
So you know, add all thattogether and we've got the beginning of
the description of our relationship. Yeah. And I appreciate you saying that,
because stress is and this isn't justabout my life, in Bill's life,

(12:43):
it is straight up. There wasan episode a couple of weeks ago with
Doctor Setteroff and we talked about specificallyabout the while we talked about this on
the show all of the time,about how stress affects our body, our
well being, our health, oursleep, are eating habits, all of
it, and is so incredibly importantwhen you're talking about dealing with anybody that

(13:05):
lives in chronic pain or any formof illness. Quite frankly, if they're
perfectly healthy, we all have tobe better about how we manage our stress
and who we bring into our livesand who we say, kick fucking rocks,
get out of here, because Idon't want you in my world anymore,
or I don't want that job inmy life any world, I don't

(13:26):
want that client in my life anymore. Because we are here to heal,
and we are here to be betterhumans, and we are here to be
in better relationships, and we arehere to live longer, we have to
pay more attention to it because inthe olden days, you know, people
would say stress, stress, stress, and we, you know, whatever,
it is legitimately a thing in thisespecially in the United States of America,

(13:52):
and with women, we take onfar more than we should because we're
picking up after our sweeties, we'repicking up after our kids, we're picking
them after our dogs, we're doingso many other things on top of having
full time jobs, on top ofrunning their own podcasts or their own side
gig, their side hustle, whateverit is. And so we have to
be better about about managing that.And I know in our relationship we're getting

(14:16):
better at it, honey. Butit's not easy, no, And you
particularly have a very difficult time becauseyou're an impath, as you said,
so you feel more than most peopledo. There are many times when I'll
tell you, just don't give ashit. Come on, it isn't that
important. Let's think about something else. This is not a ten yet,

(14:41):
more of a three or a four. And for you, that's difficult.
You feel more than most and you, unfortunately you have the bad luck of
having CRPS and feeling more than mostpeople. Combine the two that equals stress
and that equals more pain, andit is we're going back. It's difficult
to see. I hate to seeyou undergo that. And we've tried.
We've worked very hard. As amatter of fact, you've done a pretty

(15:05):
good job of blowing people and thingsoff. And I think I've helped you
do that well one honey, andI think you have helped me and both
of us. I mean, we'vegone through this the last six seven years,
and we've both gotten much much betterat saying that's not important for you,
it's just that's not important. Meanspain is less for me. That's

(15:30):
just not important because it shouldn't be. Yeah, and there are things that
we disagree and I think this isin every couple, in any relationship,
is there are things that we disagreewith. This is important, and that
is important, But I think overall, I mean even down to like doing
the stuff for the house and things. I mean, we we believe in
the same things politically we do.We're even the stuff for the new house,

(15:50):
like we're picking out furniture, we'repicking out this that we don't ever
fight. I mean every now andagain, we've I mean we've had like
two doozies, like pretty two bigdoozies, and I reallylationship. But big
picture, I think that we handlea lot of the stuff that comes at
us fairly well. But there arethose times where things that come in that
do raise my stress level and it'sinstantaneous, right. And there's people that

(16:14):
you and I know that we've identifiedand we're not going to throw them under
the bus here today, but thereare people that we've identified in our lives
that are like when we have conversationswith these people, that raises our stress
level and it raises mind pain level. And I think that we've been good
about being better about identifying them andeliminating them or at least spending less time
with them. But one of thethings that I'm most concerned about is that

(16:37):
you don't end up harnessing resentment againstme and my pain. No, No,
that I've never done that. Justit everything occurred to me until you
just said it. Never even enteredmy mind of any resentment I am.
I'm resentful that we have to gothrough this together. Sure, resentful of

(17:00):
you? I No. I thinkthe only time that I've been resentful of
you is when we were choosing somefurniture and you wanted a modern version of
the furniture. I wanted to looklike an Iranian whorehouse, and I did
most of the compromising. Well,you know I'm not putting anything from an

(17:21):
Iranian war house into our home.Well, thank you for saying that,
because I know, like resentment isa huge thing that comes into relationships and
in the chronic pain community, thereare people that handle it like I do,
and there are people that handle itlike I don't do. Right,
And I was close how many yearsago, I don't know, four years
ago or something where I didn't Well, actually, before we started the Pingay

(17:44):
podcast, I remember when we startedto talk about doing the show, and
I didn't really know what I wantedto talk about. I just thought I
was just going to kind of liketalk about pain and complain about it and
that wasn't going to work because Irealized that I needed to shift within my
own mindset and shift how I thoughtabout pain and how we were going to
handle pain in our life and haveus give my pain purpose. And that's

(18:07):
what we've done together, and obviouslythis show has on it. But it
turned into I was feeling like Iwas going to be resentful about pain,
and I was going to be resentfulabout the people that didn't didn't understand me
or didn't want to talk about itall the time. And it's like I
don't want to talk about it allthe time. So I was worried about
the show turning into a big whinathon which I'm not right. I'm not

(18:30):
a big whiner. Yeah, Imean, I try not to be.
I mean I have. Everybody hastheir moments, but I try really hard
to not be that whining, crying, sitting on the couch, sucking my
thumb, all of that, noteven a little bit. As a matter
of fact, I'm far greater awiner than you are. Oh well,
hands down, everybody knows that.Yeah, I mean, and you know,

(18:52):
watching you live your life without whiningis the way it's frankly a miracle
the way I see it, Idon't know who else could put it off.
I think we both often said thatif, in some bizarre way it's
easier for you to have this painthan for me to have this pain,

(19:14):
I would blow my brains out.And we both know that. And that's
not an exaggeration. No, absolutelynot. You would have jumped off the
Golden Gate bridge right now. Imean, we take you to the urgent
care when you have a paper cut, and we always say that as a
joke, but guys, it's absolutelynot a joke. Yeah, I would
be one of those people who trulywould end it because I just couldn't take
the pain anymore and to watch youdeal with it. And you know,

(19:36):
I've mentioned this, and I've toldpeople about it, and on my broadcast
I've said it is that as amatter of fact, when I do spots
for the Pain Game podcasts on myNational show, I describe you, the
host of the show, Lindsay Soprano, dealing with her pain heroically, And
I think that's a word that isvery appropriate here, very appropos heroically you

(20:00):
do, all right, Well,I'll take it, but I would rather
be heroic about it and give givemy pain purpose and give our pain because
quite frankly, it has become ourworld and our pain and what we deal
with. But I feel so goodabout how we've chosen to go through this
where I've seen so many other couplesbreak up get divorced. I mean as

(20:22):
CRPS is called the suicide disease.And we've had scary moments. We've had
scary moments with medication that doctors havegiven me had We've had scary moments of
wanting to just not be here andput up with it and live with it.
And you have helped me through that, and I just want to thank
you for that, because it isreally scary when you live in so much

(20:47):
pain and you think, God,great, it's going to get worse than
a year from now, Like I'mforty six years old, you're one hundred
and two true, yeah, andso I still have, you know,
a million years longer to go,and I don't know how long I'm going
to be able to put up withit. And those thoughts are so hard
to fight through and you helped methrough them, and thank you for that.

(21:10):
Well, of all the people inthe world that are going to end
up dying of old age or somekind of crazy ass disease, or get
hit by a truck. It's goingto be you're You're not going to end
at all because you are suffering thispain. And I think a lot of
it has to do and when youfirst started this show, let me go
to that point, I thought,Okay, she's going to do a podcast.

(21:33):
I'm going to support her as muchas possible. It's going to be
okay, an advocate whatever. Andthen and then as you got into it,
now you're two years into this thing, when you say giving pain a
purpose, I just thought that wasa slogan. I really did. I
just thought that was just throw awaya marketing line, damn marketers or damn

(21:56):
marketers, and it clearly, itclearly is not. It is truly a
description of how you deal with yourpain and how you talk to others about
your pain. I've often said Ijust started a podcast. I have a
couple of radio shows, and tome, that's just entertainment. What this
podcast does, what your podcast does, This is really serious stuff. It

(22:21):
really does have meaning, It reallymakes an impact. And I've told you
that before many times. You know, what I do is fluff I mean,
I'm good at it. I've gottentons of awards, I make a
terrific living doing it. But it'snot what you're doing. You know what
you're doing. I believe to thismoment is far more important. And that

(22:44):
says a lot about you, Andit says a lot about your communication.
It says a lot about how you'redealing with your pain. It says a
lot about how you feel about otherpeople dealing with pain and how you help
them. It's extraordinary, it reallyis. And I'm very, very proud
of you for doing that. Thankyou. It's not like you to blow
sunshine up people's assts, so Iappreciate it. I do not. I

(23:07):
do not. I was going tosay something else there, but I thought
maybe I should hold that back.When we're talking about blowing things up people,
Oh yeah, that part of it. I love you. Also,
where both of us, if possible, you go to the lowest common denominator.
And as a matter of fact,we laugh the most when either one

(23:29):
of us make some ridiculous craved eitherstatological or sexual or both. Oh at
the same time, please gosh,I'm not a monster. But we have
such a wonderful time together and weI mean, you're my best buddy man,
and I am so happy to dothis thing with you and thank you
for helping me get through all ofthis and vice versa. I mean,

(23:52):
you're going to be, you know, with a walker soon and I gotta
deal with diapers. I mean,it's a whole thing coming up. Talk
about the Pain Game podcast. Yeah, thank you so much for that.
You're welcome. Yeah. No,you are a brilliant mind and I wouldn't
be with anybody else but you onthis light. I mean, I am
so grateful to go on the next, you know, however long we're both

(24:15):
going to be around on this planetjourney together and hopefully all of the work
that we're doing here, and alot of it has come from the Pain
Game Podcast, is meeting all thesepeople and meeting these healers and having these
conversations and accepting where I am andaccepting where we are with my body,
and sometimes it's hour by hour,sometimes it's day by day, you know,

(24:38):
and we just kind of we pushedthrough, and I'm just I'm so
happy that we are where we arebecause we're better off than we were like
six months ago with my pain.That's true. It's in many ways it's
getting better. It is. Youknow, people are listening and watching,
and here we are, each ofus telling the other how terrific, how

(25:00):
great, how grateful we are.People have to be thinking this is a
mutual masturbation session. It might be. Yeah, I mean we only have
our shirts from our waist up.Yes, that's true, going commando.
Other than that, yeah, Andthe pain, and you don't know when
the pain comes from. I neverknow. You know, for example,
we have sex and all of asudden you say it hurts, it hurts,
And I know it is in referenceto the size of my schwantz.

(25:22):
By the way, that is acomplete joke and I just had to throw
that, yet I couldn't control It'sactually true. It does hurt sometimes to
have sex. And some of thatis ZRPS, and so we there's some
of that stuff that goes in andat the end of the day, I'm
like, Aliop, let's go cowgirlup. But there are so many aspects
of our lives that have been affectedby it. And I mean from the

(25:44):
fact that you know, my eatingdisorder came from this, and you've had
to deal with me and food andI have to like brag that I'm eating
something because everybody's super excited that Lindsay'seating I'm like, oh my god,
Okay, I don't want to drawmuch more attention to that. To draw
more attention to some more positive thingsin some other ways that we can talk
about moving forward and talk about thegrowth that we've had and the success that

(26:08):
we've had, even just in theshort six months that we've been working with.
The functional nutritist that we've been workingwith, she was a guest on
the show, actually, Vashtai,and she has helped me unbelievably. How
I am I'm walking barefoot for thefirst time in five years. I mean,
I can't do it constantly. Butthat and of itself it sounds like
something so stupid, it is legitimatelysomething that I've been working towards. And

(26:33):
so here's a big win for us. And so celebrating those big wins,
guys, when they can be littlebut they're big, you know, and
whatever means anything to you, thatis a win for you. Don't worry
about what anybody else is saying,don't worry about what anybody else's winds are,
don't worry about what the next guyis saying about their pain, especially

(26:55):
when you're talking about something like CRPS, where everybody's body handle it differently.
Don't judge yourself, don't point yourfinger at everybody else doing any better than
you. You can only be goodat where you are within your life.
But take ownership of it. Imean, that's really what it comes down
to. If you act like anasshole and you're doing stuff that's counterproductive to

(27:18):
your pain, or to your illness, or to your relationship. This isn't
just about chronic pain, physical pain. This is about trauma. You guys
know this. We talk about thisall the time. So give yourself the
wins, you know, even ifthey're tiny, because they're so important,
because they build up to something huge. And that's what I've been working towards.
And I'm already reaping the benefits fromit. And we both have.

(27:41):
Quite frankly, you and I huntand you know, I couldn't ask for
a better life right now. Andthat says a lot. And that says
a lot to you as well aswell as my audience and my family and
my friends. Absolutely, for sure, I'm exhausted, No, no surprise.
I've seen you. I've seen youget into this mode when you are

(28:06):
doing these interviews and doing the show, you'll come out just thrashed. You
put so much into it. Youknow, it's well, I was nervous
to do this with you, whichI know you were. I was totally
nervous you were. And it's liketo see why. I mean, you're
talking about I think the first timeyou mentioned my name, first time nobody's
ever met. You've been my streetiafor ninety nine episodes, right, And
part of that is we kept ourrelationship a secret for many years and you've

(28:33):
been terrific about that. And evennow I'm becoming more and more open.
I talk about on my radio showthat you and I are more than involved
with each other. We're more thaninvolved, and it's uh, and it
has not been easy. It hasnot been easy with my ex and my
kids, and it's yeah, yeah, it's it's difficult. So you now

(28:59):
reach the point where, you know, I think we're having a normal sort
of adult if you can describe asan adult, which is not easy to
do not with you. No,no, And I would say mature,
regular couple life. And did youmention we're getting married in March? I
did not mention that we were gettingmarried in March, but you, lucky

(29:19):
bastard, Yeah, March of twentytwenty five. Yeah, we're getting married.
Yeah yeah, and you were Oneof the fun fun top conversation is
Lindsay from her previous marriage had thisincredible, gorgeous ring, a multi carrot

(29:40):
diamond, and I said, let'sjust use that again. What I did,
and I unbelievable. Why why wouldI get you another diamond when you
have such a great diamond. Peopleare running off the road in their cars
because they're like, wh that's right, guys, he wanted to reuse my

(30:03):
last one, ignoring And those ofyou who know him very well, if
there's anybody from CAMPI that are listen, they're like, oh no, that's
something about right. Well, thankyou for remedying that. So okay,
so let's get back to where wewere talking about before we hit the channel.
So for people that live with peoplelike myself, not me, Lindsay,

(30:25):
but people that live in chronic pain, do you have any advice for
their loved ones? Because I mean, really, this is about giving a
voice to them and giving them somehope. And some like guys, hang
on and I know a lot ofthe people that are listening that have loved
ones, and that is a lotof our listeners, especially when it comes
to the demographics and the male categoryof demographics. The men are listening for

(30:47):
their wives, their sisters, theirtheir daughters. It's pretty amazing. Sure,
First of all, you can't beequivocal about love. If it isn't
a deep love, it's not towork. The pain overwhelms would overwhelm any
kind of relationship described like that.So we have to have her. You

(31:07):
have to have her. I haveto have a profound love with that.
Then you go together through life andpart of life is CRPS. Now we
have great times. I mean,we travel a lot, we laugh a
lot. Yeah, and we're constantlylaughing. And then part of that is

(31:30):
the michig os, you know,the baggage that we bring to the table.
I bring lots and lots of baggage. You, Lindsey, bring lots
of baggage. Yours is more physicalthan mine. Mine is emotional and family
and maturity issues and compartmentalization issues.So we go back to how do you

(31:53):
deal with it? You start withreally loving a person. You have no
choice, otherwise you're not going todeal with it, don't even try.
And from that comes well, it'shard. I mean it's hard. I
feel helpless. I walk around everymorning I ask you how's your pain level?

(32:13):
And you hate that. You hatethat because I want to know every
morning, and it's like, howdid you sleep? What did you do?
How did we do? How manyhours? Gives the rundown of where
the dogs up? Where were they? I mean, I'm like, oh
my god, I've been up forseventeen seconds, that's true. I'm up
the alarm goes off, or waybefore the alarm, I'm up, doone
and I'm running around in the shower, so I don't do the snooze.

(32:37):
You have a harder time getting up. So I'm always asking what's the pain
level. When you say it's atwo, I'm thrilled. When you say
it's six or a seven, I'mconcerned and upset. And when you say
it with just an eight or nine, I'm devastated. And then we go
from there and hope you sleep,because that's the other thing. CRPS is

(32:58):
very difficult to sleep with because atnight there are very few distractions like there
are during the day. We allhave that issue, and so I mean
that's part of living with you,and that's part of what you bring to
the table. And is it worthit in the end? I yeah,
yeah, I mean I guess yeahit is. I mean, would I

(33:21):
have it any other way? Sure, I'd rather have you not have this.
But now when you look at it, you wigh, you balance it
risk reward, and to me,it's not much of a choice, or
it's not much of an issue.I mean, the reward is far far
higher. Thanks, honey buns Well, I mean a lot of ore.
A lot of the reason why ourlove has survived my diagnosis is because we're

(33:45):
also real and true and open andhonest with each other. I mean,
there's nothing more honest than loving someonewho lives in debilitating pain and continues to
show up, you know. Imean, good God, I mean,
I give you all the credit inthe world for that. And we know
all of the dark and twisty stuffthat's happened, and you know, you
showing up is like, it's amazing, and I'm so grateful for that.

(34:09):
I feel almost bad even saying thisto a certain extent, because I feel
like there are people that might belistening that don't have a spouse that's like
you that doesn't have a spouse thatlegitimately is like I'm fucking in Lindsay,
you know, and advice versa withme. It's just a different reason.
But I just, you know,not that this is a big applaud session,

(34:31):
but it is. It's something thatI know is not easy for you.
And my parents know it, myfriends know it, my clients know
it. Everybody knows what you toa certain extent put up with or have
to deal with, and it's Ijust want to make sure that everybody that's
listening, and those that have lovedones that are quote unquote putting up with

(34:52):
you, give them some grace too, because they're showing up for us in
ways that we might not know about. They might be showing up for us
in conversations that we've never heard about, that they're talking with their friends,
because they're leaning on other people tofigure out what the hell to do with
us too, Not just therapists,but they're friends and family members as well.
So we have to make sure thatwe're giving grace to those people that

(35:14):
love us, because they're part ofthis too, you know, I mean
big part it's doing this, AndI'm just guess saying, now, doing
undergoing this kind of pain, dealingwith CRPS by yourself, this without support
a family, loved ones, friends, has to be beyond difficult, actually

(35:37):
impossible to deal with. I lookat your mom. I'm very close to
your parents, as you know,I do, mainly because they're my age,
just a little close. In fact, my mother's just a little bit
older than you. Yeah, andyour dad is six months older than I

(35:59):
am, to the point where whenyou first introduced me to him, I
say, do I call you dad? God Like? Yeah? He said
no, no, I don't thinkso. And so it's I'm not gonna
say it's wonderful because this is that'sa very bad description. But when your
mom starts talking about how you dealwith this and what you're undergoing, she

(36:21):
breaks down and starts crying. Iknow, And it's uh, And your
dad cries a lot, and youcry a lot. You're cry you are
yeah, you cry from Yeah,You're marrying into a bunch of empaths.
You're wild and crazy in them paths. Yeah, I mean it's uh,
I mean I could I can holdup before uh, and you'll start crying.
Uh. You take the dishes outof the dishwasher, and if there

(36:45):
is a spot you break out crying. I mean you just cry a lot.
You just rolled your eyes. Imost definitely just rolled my eyes.
So maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit. You never exaggerated. No, no,
but I think a lot of ithas to do and I'm just seeing
it that it would be so muchmore difficult for you if you didn't have

(37:05):
the kind of support that you havefrom your parents, from me, from
your friends. Yes, would youget enormous support. I do. And
my hope for the world of peoplethat live in chronic pain and chronic illness
and also just trump traumatic things thathappen to people, My hope is that
they have people like you and likemy family and my support team that I

(37:27):
have. I have my personal boardof directors, you know, I ask
people questions before I make big decisions, and everybody's got to kind of get
a vote on the whole thing.Like it's really important, guys. It
is so incredibly important that you havegood support, and if you don't have
it with the people done in yourlife, find them. Find them,
because it is the only way thatyou're going to truly get through. Because
we all need to lean upon others. We can't get through this world on

(37:50):
our own. We cannot get throughshit that happens to us on our own.
We can't. We can't, Weabsolutely cannot, particularly when this much
pain happens this regularly. If Ihad to guess, and you are as
you know, I've told you manymany times, the trooper of all troopers.
And I've never said this, bythe way, Lindsay, this just
came into my head just as aresult of what you said. If you

(38:15):
didn't have the support from your lovedones, your family, from me,
your parents, I think you'd beone of those people that wouldn't make it
through. I think you'd be throwingyourself off of a building and doing it
with a swan dive hitting the pavement. Well, if I was going to
do it, I would do it. Well, yeah, that's true,
that's absolutely true. You would probablydo it on the podcast, and boy

(38:37):
would that get listeners? Right?Wow? Wow, thank you? But
no, you're right. I meanthe support team that I have has gotten
me through so much stuff, anda lot of it has been, you
know, being given all these crazymedications and all these surgeries and all this
stuff that when you're in so muchpain, you're trying so hard to get

(39:00):
out of it. If I hadlistened to this episode or any of my
episodes quite frankly, on my showwithout Me, if it was just me
listening to myself years ago, orlistening to somebody like myself talk about this
stuff, I would have made veryvery different decisions when it came to my
care. And now that I'm inthe place where I'm actually in charge of

(39:22):
my care instead of doctors and allof these people that are trying to like,
I'm not even gonna get on mysoapbox about this stuff, because you
know, I can go down thatroad. But if I paid more attention
to me and what I really wantedfor my life and the people that love
me, instead of listening to allthese people out of desperation, I would

(39:43):
definitely be in a better place.I think we would have gained years.
I mean, just think about thespinal cord surgeries that I had. Oh
my god, what a frickin' nightmare. I didn't need any of it,
and all it did was cause memore pain, and it still causes me
problems and the things out I mean, there's a lead still in my spine
because they forgot to take that out. But whatever. So there's all kinds

(40:05):
of random things that are going onwith that. But thank you for saying
that, because I think that weall definitely need that support. And yeah,
I probably would have taken a swandive off. Would I have been
listening to gangster wrap while doing it? Absolutely well. One of the things
is, and you pointed out thatI may find of woo woo medicine.
I am not into alternative medicine orsupplements or any of that. For me,

(40:30):
it's real doctors, FDA approved drugsthat have been tested, that have
been double blind tested and finally getapproval. That's where I was, and
none of that was working for you. None, And I had actually killed
me, right, I mean no, I saw that for the first time,
and now I'm looking at it differently, certainly in terms of you.

(40:52):
I mean watching you, for example, chew on bushes for whatever alternative care
you can get. But if itworks, if it works, it works.
Now even you if you need surgery, if you have a broken leg,
or you have to replace a kneeor a hip, Okay, Western

(41:13):
medicine has its place. It absolutelydoes. Open heart surgery for example,
back surgery. For example, weboth have had heart surgery, both of
us back surgery, Like, yes, there is a place for it,
but we're going on to a wholedifferent level of things that we don't need
to even need to be going downbecause I think we'll be here for an
hour and a half if we keepdoing that. So okay, So thank

(41:36):
you for being here as a support, and thank you for talking to my
audience a little bit about like whatyou've been through, because I think the
voice of our loved ones is incrediblyimportant. So for those of you that
live in something similar to what I'mgoing through or absolutely nothing similar to what
I'm going through, but do needthe support, Like, if you have
them, give them some love,I mean, And if you don't find

(41:59):
it, You've got me. Youcan reach out to me at the Pain
Game Podcast. I am here.I've got so many people and loving people
in my community. And I'm startinga new community that is a tease.
Nobody knows about it yet, butit's coming very soon and it is It
is a pain community like none otherthat you will ever be involved with,
and it's going to be pretty miraculous. And Bill is going to be part

(42:22):
of it, as well as manyother people in my circle and outside of
my circle actually a bunch of gueststhat have been on the show that are
going to be part of it aswell. It's something that's going to be
pretty pretty awesome and so hon youknow, when I first you know,
it's funny because and just for theaudience's sake, my ex husband introduced me
to Bill's choke when I fell inlove with your brain and part and I

(42:44):
just found you so frickin funny andso dark and so depraved and so gross
and so everything that I love ina man like. My dream was to
kind of work with you and tobroadcast with you in some way, shape
or form, because I did fallin love with your brain, and I
wanted to talk to you all thetime, and I wanted to share everything
and anything with you before I everknew that I wanted to. And so

(43:04):
here we are. Yeah, andthat's very generous of you, by the
way, to say if you canbe reached the Pain Game Podcast, because
you do respond Oh yeah, bythe way, Uh, if you want
to reach me at the Pain GamePodcast, don't even bother because I have
no intention of ever responding. Youcan reach Bill at the Paying Game podcast

(43:27):
because I will respond on behalf ofhim. But he is on social media
as well, but he doesn't doany of his social media now I do,
and many other people at KFI whohelp us through it. But at
my one hundredth episode, you havehelped make this happen and for that I
will be forever grateful, my darling. It's been my pleasure, my love,
Thank you, honey. So youcan find Bill at Bill Handles Show

(43:51):
everywhere, and also we just launcheda new podcast for him. Actually in
one of my work what are thewords? He's still doing his morning shows,
don't rebuy? Still is this legalshow? Now? We just want
more to do, and so wedecided to start a podcast. So we
just launched it a couple of weeksago, and you can go to the
website, the billhandleshowpodcast dot com,and you can find him on all of

(44:14):
the socials. You can find himon obviously, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,
Apple, wherever you digest your contentfrom he will be there. Is
there anything that you'd like to leaveour listeners with besides the fact that you
get to marry this crazy ass womanin March you no, just say,
even with all of it in yourcase, it's certainly worth it all.

(44:34):
And anybody who can say it's worthit no matter what, then I know
how a profound relationship that you have, that's one way of defining someone really
in love, and that's certainly me. I love you, honey, Yeah,
me too. You are exclusively invitedto share this love each other.
Hard vip pain journey together. Let'sget to the heart of how to heal

(44:59):
with you by my side. Pleasefollow the Pain Game Podcast wherever you digest
your podcast content, we will bethere. Visit us at the Pain gamepodcast
dot com and follow us on allthe socials. Thanks for listening, my
little VIPs. Catch you on theother side.