April 28, 2025 • 56 mins
In January 2021, 27-year-old Kirsten Brueggeman was last seen walking alone in the freezing early hours of the morning in Indianapolis—and then she vanished without a trace. Surveillance footage captured her final known steps, but what happened next remains a chilling mystery. In this episode, we unpack the timeline, explore possible theories, and ask why there are still more questions than answers.
Extra Intel:
Disappeared season 10 ep 1
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2022/03/10/kirsten-brueggeman-indianapolis-disappearance-case-details/9443695002/
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2022/03/10/kirsten-brueggeman-missing-after-14-months-indianapolis-east-side/6529119001/
https://www.bitchute.com/video/dIWePiCKE7Nv/
Surveillance Feed:
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61571915435705
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_paranoid_perspective/
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theparanoidperspe
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/paraperspective.bsky.social
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheParanoidPerspective
Patreon: patreon.com/TheParanoidPerspective
Extra Intel:
Disappeared season 10 ep 1
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2022/03/10/kirsten-brueggeman-indianapolis-disappearance-case-details/9443695002/
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2022/03/10/kirsten-brueggeman-missing-after-14-months-indianapolis-east-side/6529119001/
https://www.bitchute.com/video/dIWePiCKE7Nv/
Surveillance Feed:
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61571915435705
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_paranoid_perspective/
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theparanoidperspe
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/paraperspective.bsky.social
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheParanoidPerspective
Patreon: patreon.com/TheParanoidPerspective
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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If you love what we do unpacking conspiracies, chasing mysteries,
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Speaker 2 (00:13):
So for as little as five dollars a month, you
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Speaker 1 (00:25):
So Tier one is the Curious Minds and you get
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Next tier this is what you guys really probably want.
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Speaker 1 (00:47):
You also get it ahead of time, so before the
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Speaker 2 (00:56):
So if you guys are interested, check in the show
notes down below, or you can head to patreon dot
com Forward Slash the Paranoid Perspective podcast. Welcome back to
(01:19):
the Paranoid Perspective.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I'm Jake and I'm Sarah.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Sarah, I've been thinking about this here lately and we
have had some fucking crazy experiences happened in our life.
I'm like having this like thinking back to like different
things a little bit, man, because like I don't know,
I've never thought about it that way, but it's like,
now that we've started this, I've like, man, we've had
(01:45):
some wild shit happen in our life. I mean, hell,
you're joining colts and I'm astral projecting, and I think
the theme of this episode is we're going to kind
of keep going down that same vein because this hits
close to home again, you know, right.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, So this week we're talking about the disappearance of
Kirsten Brighaman, which she was born nineteen ninety four to
her parents, Lisa and Rex, and she lived in Indianapolis,
And actually she went to my middle school and high school,
so I knew her. She was in my graduating class,
(02:24):
and eventually she did become part of my friend group
in high school, although like we didn't stay friends past
high school, so I don't know her like when she disappeared,
but we were friends. She was part of my group.
You know, I think I'm gonna have a lot of
screenshots and stuff to share, But first thing I'm sharing
to prove to people.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Whoops, hey you're muted. You're muted?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Am I back on? Yeah, you're good now okay, I
hit the top of my mic. Okay, so this is
my yearbook and this is me right there as a senior,
and then this is Kirsten. I don't want to show
anyone else's pictures, but there's Kirsten. So we're in the
(03:19):
same grade. And I was gonna share my screen. How
do I share just part of my screen? Select a
t oh, a window? Okay, I should practice this before
it's all good.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We're doing all the fly magic vett and will work
everything out.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, I'm gonna have to move you down here. Oops. Oh,
do keep hitting the same button. Okay, so share this screen.
There you go. This is a picture I took up
Kirsten and our friend so she was in our friend group,
(04:06):
not just in the same high school. So right now
I'm sharing that so just for the people who would
say that I didn't actually know her whatever, right.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Well, the thing the thing too, I appreciate the context too,
because I mean, you never know, people say crazy shit
all the time about how they knew people the fact
and whatnot. But I think it's I think everybody can
relate to, you know, the friend group that you had
in middle school and high school is usually like you think,
you guys are always going to stay together and you're
going to know each other forever. Dude, I don't even
(04:43):
think I talked to anybody I went to high school
with anymore, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah? Right, I don't either. Yeah, I don't talk to
anyone from high school. So but yeah, I mean she
was kind of weird in high school, but the rest
of us worked too in our group, so she'd been
in pretty well.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
We're all teenagers, man, we're at that awkward stage in
our life where we don't know what the hell we're doing.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Everybody's weird, yeah right, Yeah, And I mean she did
kind of worm her way into our group, like we
kind of joked, like when did you become part of
our group? But like we still appreciate her being in
the group. Yeah, but she did seem kind of like
(05:26):
a loner, like a loner kid, like kind of on
her own. I mean I feel like I did too
in high school, because you know, you have like high
school friends and then you don't really hang out with
them like outside of school. So I feel like she
was kind of like that, and I was kind of
like that back then. But she did have some mental
(05:47):
health issues, but again, like who doesn't unless yeah, I
think everyone does. But but like that, like back in
high school even it was like evident that there was
issues and stuff, and she was very much into weed,
which it's illegal in Indiana. So for now, she got
(06:10):
into trouble later with it is it isn't it still?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I think so? But I mean that's that's yeah, long
for this world anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I don't think, well, no, but Indiana is going to
be like the last one sure to accept it or whatever.
So but yeah, she also became an alcoholic later in life,
which I guess her dad was a recovering alcoholic, so
they often had arguments about her like following his footsteps
(06:40):
in that way, but she would like refuse to talk
about it. I guess there's a documentary that I watched
where her parents talk about her and stuff, so I
guess anytime he brought it up, she'd just leave the room.
But they said before she disappeared, like to her parents
at least, it seemed like she was starting to part
life back together, like she had a steady job, and
(07:03):
she couldn't drive because of like a dui, but like
she was staying away from alcohol more and it seemed
like maybe she was on the right track. She also
had two pitbulls, Dex and Tifa. I think Dex maybe
was like the family dog, but Tifa was her dog,
which is like a tan and white pit bull, okay,
(07:25):
and she loved animals. And then so at the time
she went missing, she was twenty six. This happened in
I say twenty twenty one, No you did.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, I was gonna ask when did she disappear because
I watched a few things on it, but I never
got like a date pin down for it.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. It was January's second, twenty twenty one, so right
after New Year's So she was twenty six at the time.
She is five to two, she's pretty short, and she
was around one hundred and fifteen pounds, so pretty light well,
And at the time she was living with her parents,
and she still can't drive because of her dy, so
(08:06):
her mom often like gave her rides to like friends
or her job. So January first, twenty twenty one, she
worked the night shift at CEC's Pizza, which is no
longer there, but it was on the south side of Indianapolis,
and she got off at ten PM, and I guess
that CEC's closed in twenty twenty four. It was open then.
(08:31):
And then her mom was supposed to pick her up
since she got off at ten, but she ended up
texting her mom saying she was going to go out
with some friends. I guess to a bar. So she
ended up going to Manly's Irish Mutt, which is on
the east side. I've never heard of it, but it's
(08:52):
like tenth in shadeland it's like really like southeast. Yeah,
and she went with her on again off again boyfriend
Eddie Bradford, which in high school she was dating him,
so I didn't really know him, but we'll get into
it later. Yeah, he was yeah, and then I guess
(09:13):
his friends Jared Kramerer and Olivia dufour and then Olivia's
friend Robin Hurt also was there. And it's not clear
how Keirston got from CC's to this bar because it's
like a fifteen minute drive on four sixty five. Wow,
(09:33):
No one, it doesn't yeah, and it doesn't say like
I guess if she if they looked at her text
like she didn't ask her boyfriend or whatever to drive
her or whatever. Maybe she got an uber I'm not
I'm not sure, but they didn't really ever say how
she got there. And then they stayed there for a while.
(09:56):
But this bar closed at twelve thirty. I guess because
of like the OVID restrictions. Oh yeah, yeah, I know, yeah, yeah,
So they ended up leaving the area. But I guess
before that, there's some conflicting information from this friend group
(10:16):
or whatever. But they said, like Kirsten and Eddie got
into a fight about something, and at first, like Eddie
had said that when he arrived at the bar, Kirsten
was already drunk, so he left, but then his friend
Jared called him back, so he went back to the bar.
(10:36):
So that doesn't I don't know if that's true. But
he also said Eddie, well, Eddie said Kirsten threw up
on a table and they got kicked out of the bar.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
But then these are just all over the place, and.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, right, because other people say, like the bar was
already closing, so that's why they left. But then he's
saying that they get kicked out because Kirsten was so
drunk that she threw up on a table. So I
don't know, it's a little weird, but like the friend
group was talking about going to a bowling alley in
Beech Grove for some reason at twelve thirty pp.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
But if everybody's if everybody's drinking in a bar close early,
that's usually the thing to do. If you still want
to go out and do stuff, you know what I mean,
just go find another spot.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I guess. Yeah, but yeah, they said. I guess they
all said that Kirsten was angry about something and started
to fight with them since she was drunk, and I
guess they offered to take her home at first, and
she said no, and then I guess she hit she
(11:45):
punched the window of Olivia's car, I guess. And then
so Olivia drove away at that point, and I guess
everyone else was already in the car.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Oh okay, so like everyone left. Yeah, yeah, so it's
a little.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Weird too that everyone's in the car if she's arguing
with Eddie. I don't know, but I guess she punched
the window and they drove away, and then Kirsten just
starts walking. But I don't know. A lot of people say, like,
you know, how could friends leave her? But these people
weren't really her friends, like this is the first time
(12:23):
they had met her, like they were Eddie's.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Right, And I mean I've been I've been in situations
before where I've had people that friends of friends that
you know, come to bars and hang out and whatnot.
And I'm going to tell you right now, I would
never do anything intentionally to hurt anybody. But at the
same time, I'm not really worried about my friend's friends,
you know what I mean, I don't I don't know
(12:48):
these people, right, And I don't mean to sound like
cold or dispassionate about it. It's just like, if you're
acting crazy and I don't even know you, I'm probably
just going to do the same thing and go away.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, especially if they did or she did hit right
the window or whatever. Yeah, I mean it makes sense
to me once I heard that they weren't really her friends,
because if they were her actual friends, then yeah, it's
pretty shitty they just left. Yeah, I mean they didn't
know her at all, Like it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, if one of my friends was acting crazy at
the bar, I'd be like, dude, shut the fuck up
and get my car, or I'm putting you in the car. Well,
you know what I mean, we're not doing this.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, well, and I feel like Eddie could have done
that because they he is the off again, on again
boyfriend and she's like one hundred and fifteen pounds, Like,
we ton't weigh that much.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
If they're If they're the on again, off again they're
probably not really ever in the best of terms either,
you know, if it's always coming going back and forth.
I mean, I don't know the guy, but I know
people that have had those on again, off again relationships
and they go from these ebbs and flows of loving
each other to fucking hating each other. So I mean, yeah,
(13:55):
it could have been one of those situations where since
they were fighting, he was just like, yeah, fuck the
I'm not dealing with it right.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, it's true. And they they were probably all drunk
to some extent or whatever. Hopefully not the driver, I
don't know, but like they weren't all making the best
decisions at twelve thirty am after a night of the bars.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
You know, I don't think anybody really.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
No, but yeah, So they ended up leaving her there
and she never made a home from there, so her
parents reported her missing the next day. The third, and
then on Monday, a detective was assigned to the case
Nicole Bockting. But I guess her parents didn't really want
(14:46):
to wait till because they called like Sunday morning and
then they were like, okay, we'll assign a detective tomorrow,
and it was like okay. So her parents ended up
driving to the bar before ever talking to the detective
to like see if they could find anything in the area.
And I guess there's like a nearby drainage ditch, so
they looked in there and everything too, like in case
(15:07):
she fell down there or something someone did something to her.
But they didn't find anything, and they ended up running
into her ex Eddie like on his bike like also
looking for her. So I thought that was a little weird,
but I guess that's fine because he lives he lived
at the time with his mom, like pretty close to
(15:29):
that bar, like only like four blocks away or something.
So I guess he was just out looking for her
because they had called him saying, hey, where is she
before they reported her missing.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
That's what I was about to ask. I was like, well,
how did he know she was missing? That would have been.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Righted immediately, you know, right well, it's always the significant other,
that's at first. No matter what, you're.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Not wrong, that significant family member or the significant other
is always the prime suspect with the detective thing. I
don't Once again, I don't mean to sound like dispassionate
about anything or you know, I'm not trying to discredit
anybody's loss or you know, freaking out in that situation,
because I know I would if my one of my
(16:15):
children were missing. Yeah, but usually twenty four hours. Like,
I don't think anybody really takes that very seriously, you know,
if they're missing for twenty four hours, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, don't they wait after twenty four hours? Or is
it forty eight?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Even now because she is twenty six.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
So yeah, well that's what I'm saying. It's a it's
an adult woman. Yeah, and she could have just stayed
with somebody, you know what I mean, or I don't
know that. I'm trying to think about it from the
other perspective of, you know, the police department and the
detectives and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we'll get into it what the
police did or did not do. But yeah, so I
mean the first thing the detective did do is try
to ping her phone to see where it was that night,
but then they found out that it had died before
she ever even left the bar, so they couldn't use
(17:12):
that to track her. They also, I guess, had horse
patrols go through trails in the area, which I thought
was a little strange. But I think there's a walking
trail like four or five blocks south. I guess, I
don't know, but that's what I found is they used
(17:32):
horses and they also had drones up in the air,
but they didn't find anything I could not find. I
don't think they used search dogs like for scent, which
is a little weird to me, But because I could
not find that anywhere.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I wonder though, with it being in the city, if
it would even be practical to use that for a
missing person, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Like that, I don't know. I just feel like they
always use dogs, but I guess, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Well yeah, I'm trying to think about that too. But
I feel like every time I've seen the search dogs
employed somewhere, it's always been in a very rural area, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Like the woods, and so yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Maybe it's normal to do horse but well, the horse thing.
I mean, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I don't don't I know, that's what I found.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I know downtown Indianapolis there are mounted patrols for police officers.
I didn't know it extended like to every corner of
the city.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
But I mean, okay, right, I guess if they're free,
I guess. I don't know. But the detective did find
three CCTV videos in the surrounding area. So one video
showed her having a verbal argument in the parking lot
with a car and then the car drove away, so
(18:58):
it kind of verified what the friends were saying.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Oh, punch in the window and I think maybe.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, right, and then she just kind of walks starts walking,
so it shows that. And that was around twelve thirty am.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Okay, so timeframe then, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
The same timeframe, so that makes sense. Then there's a
video at twelve forty am that she's walking south on
short Ridge Road. And then the next video they found
like there's a YMCA close by, so in the parking
lot there's a video. But this video is at one
(19:38):
fifty nine am. Oh wow, it's like a big gap. Yeah,
And this shows her like bending down to pick something
up and then she like walks around the fence line
in the area, and it's a little difficult to see
that's her because you know, CCTV sucks for some reason.
But her parents said, like, from the way she was
(19:59):
walking like that looks like her. You could you pick
I agree from.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
You could pick up mannerisms off CCTV. They do suck
when it comes to quality, which is always kind of
funny to me because even in twenty twenty one, we
had good video quality for just about everything. I mean, hell,
you have better video quality in your fucking pocket than
you do for that stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Right, Yeah, but yeah, then she was The video also
has like she has a white backpack, which she always
had this white backpack, like she was always wearing it.
So like they kind of verified it was heard. Then.
So I'm going to share my screen again. Hopefully this
goes better this time. Window this one share you could
(20:46):
see that, right, So yes, So this is the first
video of her. This is her just walking down which
to me, I don't know, I mean, maybe she's looks
a little drunk. I don't know, it's a little hard
to tell.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, it's kind of wobbly for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Again, Yeah, maybe she's wobbly.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
For listeners of the podcast, we're watching someone on a
CCT walking down a sidewalk.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, with the white backpack, which it's like her. So
that was one of them. Did I stop sharing, I.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Hope, So yeah, you're kid.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, I mean I didn't everything about it, okay, And
so the y m C A one though, I'm gonna
pull up that next, but that had a problem because
it glitched conveniently, which I'm a little suspicious about this
(21:50):
head of music, and I didn't want that. Okay, So
this one first before I show it. But the this
is from the whatever that documentary saw, so it's a
screencrap of it. But it shows the first the time
in the corner, and it says like two am and
(22:10):
like eighteen seconds or something, and then it jumps to
two thirty am, so it misses like thirty minutes.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Oh wow, and.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, which is kind of crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I think, and then a couple minutes. I wasn't expecting
it to be at half an hour.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, shit, it's for half an hour. So like when
it shows the rest of the video, it'll show that
she's just walking around along the fence and then she
just literally like disappears from the view. Okay, I don't know.
I'm suspicious about that because I don't get like how
(22:49):
it's missing thirty minutes. But yeah, first it shows the time,
so it says two am, and then it switches to
to thirty oh, and it's going to show her walking
and then she just disappears.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So well, yeah, because it's a fucking thirty minute gap,
I know, holy shit, I know.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So, I mean the documentary kind of jumped on that,
and a lot of people I think are jumping on
that because it just disappears and that's the last time
like anyone sees her. So it's very bizarre.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I mean, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It's a glitch apparently, is what the detective said.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
So well, I wonder though, I would want to know
how often do CCT cameras, Yeah, glitch like significant amount
of time like that. That is super odd that you
would have like like, like I said at the beginning,
I was thinking maybe two minutes, three minutes tops something like.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
That right where it's yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
You could have had something like maybe like a power
surge or an outage for that like quick little or
you know whatever until they reset it and sure that
would be something like that, But thirty minutes is unbelievably
long for a glitch.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, so right, yeah, I think it's crazy. And the
detective just you know, says, oh, it's a glitch, Like,
I don't know, did they look at who had access
to this or anything?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I feel like, maybe it's not a glitch, but I
don't know, maybe it is, but I feel like they
didn't investigate as much, like who could have deleted some
of this footage? Maybe it's not that easy, I guess too.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, well, I'm curious now, and listeners, I apologize I'm
googling how often cct TV's glitch because this doesn't seem
like I don't know, I.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Mean, it's a poorer area, so maybe it's not as
maintained or something.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
I mean, I guess once again, it okay. So, for example,
if the time randomly jumps from like a minute nine
to two minutes, this would be a definite sign that
someone removed a section of the footage. So right off
the bat, we're seeing fifty seconds would be a definite
(25:19):
sign that somebody removed footage. So according to Yeah, now,
granted I just did a quick Google search on that,
but if that's what it's saying based off of the
first result that I see, and all I typed in
listeners was how often do CCT? Uh? Yeah, what did
(25:40):
I say? How often do cct's glitch? Is what I
typed into Google. So if it's saying that off for
fifty seconds, I think it's kind of fucking weird that
we had thirty minutes of missing time just not there
and it's just a glitch.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Right, yeah, because someone could grabbed her then, I mean
someone would have had to have access then to delete.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
That too, So it's it is.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
A little like maybe park fetched, like yeah, I know
the cameras there and everything, so it was a little
I don't know, it's just weird, and I don't like
the When I was watching the document, it seemed like
the detective just kind of it was like, well, it's
a glitch, all right, like okay, And I mean they, yeah,
(26:30):
I think they did look at other areas in that
place to see if she ever popped up again, But
I don't know how many have you know, cameras and
stuff anyway in that area. Ye, So but yeah, I'm
going to show a map that says a lot of
stuff to show. Sorry maybe sorry listeners.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Put head over to YouTube and to check out all
of this scorious video.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah, so this is where she worked at the CCS
down here, and then her parents kind of lived by
the high school uppere and then this is the area
where she went. So there's Manly's Irish Mutt and then
that's the YMCA. And some people think maybe she was
(27:23):
going to this bowling like Ali, thinking that that's where
her friends were going, but they were going to Beech Grove,
which is like a south side like down here right right,
So well zoom, but maybe she was confused.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, zoom back end of that real quick, just so
listeners of the show can have some context. The bar
that she was at and where the CCT is at
is within two square blocks, so we're not talking a
super far distance here, right.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, And I mean some people were thinking, you know,
I mean, the question is where was she walking to?
But people said maybe she was trying to go home,
but like her home is north in Lawrence. Well plus
it's also like yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
And that's probably like if you're on foot, that's going
to take you hours to walk that.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yes, it was six miles away, yeah, oh yes.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, And in the middle of winter in Indiana, which
is sometimes not too bad, but it's pretty fucking cold
most of the time.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, I did look up the temperature on that day,
which I will say later because it's down farther and
I don't want to lose my place put Oh but
my first question though, I think the YMCA time is wrong,
Like I think it wasn't updated for daylight savings time
(28:49):
because she's on short Ridge Road at twelve forty, which
is like literally right at the corner where Manly's Irish
Mutt is like down a block at that corner, and
then it's two o'clock when she gets to YMCA.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Okay, So that would make a lot of sense if
they were not, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Because yeah, because then it would be twelve to fifty
nine instead. So it's only like nineteen minutes, right, which
is I feel like, yeah, especially if you're kind of
drunk and or you know, just kind of wandering. Yeah,
like that could take that long. So I'm wondering if
the detectives looked at that time period, because everyone I
(29:32):
see is focused on two o'clock, and it's like, maybe
look between twelve forty and two. I guess if you want.
But I wonder if they only looked around like two
o'clock on the other teap like cameras in the.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Area, I guarantee you they did. If they just saw
the time stamp and just were like, oh, that's when
we last saw her. You know, they probably weren't accounting
for anything like.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
That, right because Daily Savings was only like two months ago.
Cameras are not updated like ever, so right, I could
see that happening, So I don't know, I think they
need to look at that. But some people think maybe
she was going to Eddie's mom's house. Like I said,
he kind of lived close by. But that was also
(30:14):
like north. It was like a couple of blocks, like
up here somewhere, So she went south, so it's like
where is she going?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Regardless, both places that would be assumed she would be
leaving two are the opposite direction.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, and it's so close to the highway for sixty
five's right there. I feel like if someone grabbed her,
oh would.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Be too easy. Yeah, you're looking at a major highway
that runs around the circumference of Indiana. That is what
five six blocks? Yeah, you know, so, yeah, it would
take no time to do that.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, so you know, the detective kinda was looking for
input from the community after the glitch thing, and then
they didn't find any other video. They just kind of said,
you know, we need tips from the community and didn't
do too much else, I think. So in March, her
(31:15):
parents hired a private investigator named Crystal and she had
a ninety percent rate of solving cases, and they also
offered yeah, and they also offered a ten thousand dollars
reward for any information that led to finding Kirsten, so
hoping to get some people. So the investigator saw, I
(31:41):
don't know where this is from, but I saw on
like CCTV at two thirty eight a suv coming out
of Abbey Meadows Apartments, which was just south of the YMCA,
and they thought maybe that had something to do with it.
It's very hard to see because it's just a black
suv and like the corner of a camera, and also
(32:03):
it might be at the wrong time anyway, Yeah, at
night it was a black truck or whatever. Yeah, black suv.
But then like they saw it two thirty eight and
then they saw it again at three point fifteen. It
was just kind of going back and forth, which was weird.
Like on this road there was just kind of wandering
and going into a parking lone then coming back out
(32:23):
and whatever. So they did, you know, give that to
the police, and I guess the FBI ended up helping
identify the SUV because I think the police at first
were like, it's too hard to see what the car is, right,
so they didn't. But the FBI ended up figuring out
who owned that car, and that car was linked to
(32:45):
a homicide that occurred at the Abbey Meadow apartments like
that night, okay, at the same time. Yeah, So so
they had the car I guess in custody and whatever
it is compounded, so they did DNA testing and then
they were able to eliminate that, like Kirsten had never
(33:08):
been in that car, but at first that seemed like.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
A good lead, but it was associated with a homicide
nonetheless on the same night.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yes, yeah, this is not the best area.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's funny when we've talked about this,
all of these things that you find out from one
simple case could lead to like six others, you know
what I mean. It's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, it's just kind of what is what's everyone doing?
These freak I mean just something's everywhere.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Killing Yeah, apparently murderers everywhere.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Right, Yeah, so I guess it kind of went cold
after that. Sixteen weeks later, her parents saw a Facebook
post about like a men's body that was found that
was close to Kirsten's description, but that body did have
like a spider tattoo on her arm, which her parents
didn't think that she had, but they still like told
(34:11):
the detective, and the detective did a DNA test and
it wasn't Kirsten either. For that, and then September they
held a vigil so hopefully like they held it at
the YMCA or in the field next to it to
helpfully get like people in the community to come out
and give information and stuff. But I think not a
(34:34):
lot of people actually attended. I think in that area
they have a distrust of police of course, sure, so
they no one really was coming with ideas or anything,
but they did try that. And then in March twenty
twenty two, they had a lead from Franklin, Indiana at
a bar and they said someone walked in who maybe
(34:57):
looked like Kirston, like the bar manager someone called the
police to try and see but through like the TV's
like the cameras in that bar and stuff, they confirmed
it wasn't her in May, so she's still missing. So
it's what like four years now. And Kirsten did have
(35:19):
some criminal charges at the time. So in twenty seventeen
she had a DUI like I said, so she couldn't
drive still, and then twenty eighteen it said possession of
paraphernalia which was marijuana, which is stupid but whatever. And
then twenty eighteen she had another d I so that
made it worse. And then December twenty twenty she had
(35:43):
another possession of marijuana. So that was just eighteen days
before she went missing, right, and that's still like active,
Like she still has a warrant out for that.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Oh it's still active.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, it's weird. And the initial hearing
for that was first scheduled for like January thirteenth, so like,
you know, eleven days after she went missing. But right, So,
like because of that kind of stuff, some people think
she left town like she got mad or something and thought,
(36:17):
you know, I don't have anyone here, so she left.
But the biggest problem with that is she left her dog.
Like her parents said, you know, if she left, she
would have tried to take Tifa no matter what, so
they don't think she just left. And also I guess
she left a big paycheck behind at her work, so
(36:39):
that wouldn't really make sense that she just left.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah. The other thing too, like there would be at
this point, there would have been some some sort of contact
I would think would have been tried to be made.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, you know, I don't think she would stop talking
to her family.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Or Eddie maybe, or I know she probably didn't have,
like you said in the beginning, the best relationship with
her family, but you would still eventually, I would think,
try to reach out, because I mean, if you just
decided to dip town, I would assume at some point
in time, you would see something about you missing or
(37:21):
all these documentaries or something like that and be like,
oh shit, I need to call somebody and be like, hey,
don't say anything, but I'm alive. Just don't come back.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Height Yeah, I don't freaking out, O know what I mean? Yeah,
you would think so, I think so. I mean, I
don't think it makes sense that she just got mad
at the bar or whatever.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
And then I'm not buying that.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah. And then people also say, like Eddie was abusive
towards her there on again off again relationship was for
ten years, so I started when she was sixteen, and
it wasn't the best dynamic, like I said. And he
also has a lot of criminal charges as well, Like
(38:03):
in twenty twenty October he had a battery charge which
I don't think was like against Kirston.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
But well, nonetheless, I mean you start seeing a little
bit of a pattern of behavior.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, And he had two different no contact orders, which
one was in relation to the battery charge and one
was from twenty thirteen. And then he also had some
like possession of marijuana, and he had some small claims
court stuff from property damage at apartment complexes.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Okay, so yeah, we're definitely seeing a pattern of destructiveness
a little bit here.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah. So some people think maybe he went back after
he was done with his friends and like did something
to her, But like, I don't know. I mean there's
no evidence of that obviously. I don't know if they
checked like his phone, where was he the whole time?
I think they could bring his ping his phone. Yeah,
(39:07):
see if he went.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Home, I don't know though, because like you said, kind
at the beginning too, that would be I would assume
the primary suspect. If you would something happened to her,
that's the first person you would investigate. So, like you said,
I there would one hundred percent be phone, some sort
of evidence from the phone, whether it be location, whether
(39:30):
it be text messages, whether you know, a plethora of things.
And not to mention too, you could have talked to
his mom, was he wanted he get home? And you
know what I mean that just I don't know about
that one either. I mean, yeah, the pattern of behavior, sure,
we can kind of go off of that that he
might have been abusive. I don't know that. I don't
(39:52):
know the guy. I don't know if he actually did
anything to her, but he does have that behavior towards
others for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean maybe they did investigate that, but
it didn't make the cut for the documentary. I mean
it was an hour so yeah, but I don't know.
I thought that was weird that that's not even mentioned
at all, like if they how they investigated him or anything,
because he also lives, you know, like four blocks away, right,
even if they went down to the bowling alley, maybe
(40:21):
when they drove back they saw her on the street
or something.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Especially I don't know, I was wandering.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, so I'm yeah, I'm not sure how much the
police actually did. But the other friends, they didn't have
any record. Really, I look, I looked to them all
up but public ye. So but yeah, we can get
(40:50):
into the theories. Like I said, one was maybe Eddie
did something. So we already kind of talked about that one.
We already talked about that she skipped town. I guess
she had two warrants out for her rest at the
time and both are still active today, which is weird.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
It well, but even like having a warrant out for
your arrest, I don't know. You see all those like
cop shows, and I mean I see it on TikTok
from time to time about how somebody just got pulled
over for speeding and they were like, oh, you know,
you have warrants thout for your arrest. So it's like,
are they even actively looking for you? I mean, I'm
(41:30):
sure it's in some capacity, right, probably are. But I
see a lot of those videos where it's like a
stupid like a speeding ticket and they run their information.
They're like, oh, you've got a warrant out of this
county for you blah blah blah blah. So the skipping
town thing, if she's already had issues with law enforcement,
she probably already knows that, Okay, what are they going
(41:51):
to do there, and they're not going to come find
me unless I do something dumb most likely.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Yeah right, yeah. So but one aspect of this too
is some people say the police didn't do enough because
of her records.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I could believe that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Another theory is that she committed suicide. Like I said,
she had some mental health issues. But you know, again,
I don't think she would have left her dog, and
I don't I feel like she'd leave a note too,
like who's gonna and not just on the street or
something like. It doesn't really make any sense. Yeah, and
(42:34):
she should have been found.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I was about to say, I was just about to
say that if you're in the middle of the city
or on the southeast side of that city, like you
said at the beginning, they even checked like the drainage
ditch by there to make sure that she didn't fall
in there or whatever. I mean. Yeah, if if she
was having problems with mental health and considering that option,
(42:58):
you would have found something by now, I mean, correct
me if I'm wrong, But I don't think there's like
any major waterways down that way. There's no like real
wooded areas within that, you know, kind of radius of
where she was at, so you would have found I mean,
there is something.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Right there is a creek, but it's past Washington Street,
so it'd be like ten or fifteen blocks away, but
it was like towards the south the way she was walking. Yeah,
but there is a creek down there. I mean it's winter,
so who knows how much waters in the creek right, so,
and there is like a walking trail also by the
(43:39):
creek that's like wooded, but not wooded that much. Another
theory is that she ended up falling asleep somewhere because
she was intoxicated and then passed away from exposure and
they just haven't found her still yet. But I feel
like same thing.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Yeah, once again, you would have found her by now,
somebody would have ye found her. No, don't even know
that that first part of that theory pop probable. You're
too drunk, you pass out, it's the middle of winter,
you're on the street, you die of hypothermia. Yep, guess
what people are going to see when they're driving by
(44:21):
a body on the street or a body, yeah, or
a body in an alleyway or some somebody within a
couple of days would have found that.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Right, Yeah, and this is where the temperature is. It
was thirty four degrees fahrenheit that night, so one of
degree celsius.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah, so definitely cold enough. If you spend enough time
out there too, and weren't properly dressed, you could definitely,
you know, definitely get hypothermia.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
The last two theories are kind of in the same vein,
like either someone grabbed her for human trafficking or what,
or you know, someone grabbed her to kill her. I guess,
so those are kind of the options, Like someone that
didn't know her, that just saw her wandering around and
grabbed her. And then like we said, for sixty five's
(45:13):
right there, they could be literally anywhere in the world.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, I mean, you don't even have to expand it
out that far. They could be anywhere within the country.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Yeah, you know, right, So that's kind of I think
someone grabbed her.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
But I'm kind of on the same page as that,
Like I said, I've watched a handful of the stuff
on YouTube relating to her disappearance, and whatnot, and the
way that people don't just vanish if they die, you
know what I mean. They right, like we were talking
about earlier, somebody would have found her laying in the
(45:54):
street or in an alleyway or something like that. I'm
pretty convinced what hapen and was when she was probably
walking down that street. Somebody probably snatched her up. And
I mean, like you said, you could have taken her
anywhere at that point.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, right, and oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Did she did she? I don't know if it's known
or anything, but with her with her criminal record, I
wonder if she was buying anything from anybody in that area.
I mean, I would think it could be a possibility,
you know.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, I mean I'm sure she had a dealer for weed. Yeah,
and they could be in that area because Eddie lived
there too, so maybe they would go and get some
together or something. I mean, it could be someone like that.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah, I mean, they knew her. I don't know though,
because I feel I feel like when when stuff like
this happens and people get kidnapped or people murdered, it's
the hardest ones to find are the just the random
psychopaths that just snatched people out of nowhere, and they
don't have a pattern, they don't have a motive, because
(47:11):
it's really easy to catch somebody. I feel like that
had an emotional attachment to someone that murdered somebody.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah right, I mean it's like that, what was that
one guy that just picked a city and went there
or like stashed the kill kits or whatever, Yeah, and
just randomly picked someone.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, or even like Richard Ramirez, the night stalker. You know,
he would just pick a random person from my understanding,
and it was really hard to catch him.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, yeah, it would be hard. Also, where she went
missing is a pretty big crime area. I pulled up
the crime map and it wasn't like dark blue, like
right north of it is dark blue. This is medium blue.
The darker it is, the more crime. But uh yeah,
(48:06):
that's kind of why I have I have questions myself
just for the maybe I should call it in the
tip or something. I kind of want to go back
to the map for a second. Worries, Okay, because if
you can see that, So there's the YMCA, there's the apartment,
(48:29):
and she was going south and then, like I said,
if you get past Washington Street, then there's a lake
or a creek right there. So I don't know how
many blocks one, two, three, four, five, maybe like six
blocks actually or seven. Sure, I feel like she could
have made it down there. And this is the walking
(48:50):
trail that's even more north than the creek. So and
that's a bunch of wooded area. I just don't know
if the seed not. Yeah, it's not that big. Yeah,
but there's also like a retention pond.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Oh yeah, right off to the west of that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Yeah. So I don't know what's like because the documentary,
you know, doesn't cover all this. But I feel like
they just looked at the immediate like I feel like
they stopped looking after Washington Street, like they just looked
around the YMCA, this apartment complex and that's it, and
like she could have easily just kept walking south. So
(49:35):
I wonder if they ever searched farther south of that well.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
And I hate to say it, but I feel like
you're probably pretty spot on with they were looking at
her as an individual and just like whatever. You know,
she's already got all these charges and she's probably just
mixed up with the wrong people and you know, probably
got herself killed. And when you know what I mean,
(50:00):
I mean, that's kind of that's kind of what I
got from watching a handful of these documentaries too, when
they did talk to anybody. I don't know if I
ever watched one with the actual detective, but it's kind
of like it was never said, but it felt like
that was the sentiment, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Yeah, right, that's what I'm kind of thinking. This was
on Disappeared, like it's an id thing, I think, or
Discovery something like that, but they had the detective actually
talk and stuff, and to me, it seemed like and
they were very focused on the glitch of the video,
like that was half of the documentary. So I'm like,
(50:40):
if it's a glitch, then move on from it, like
they would just say it's just a glitch, but then
they would talk about it a lot, right, it was
like I don't know. Also, I'm wondering if they checked
dumpsters at all, because I looked it up and the
houses that are right there at least they get picked
up on Monday. So I wonder if the dumpsters would
(51:02):
also get picked up like on Monday, because this happened
on Saturday. But I don't know if they checked dumpsters
before the detective really got involved because like I.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Kind of.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of the disappearance of
Lauren Spearr at IU Indiana University, and like the first
thing that the police checked were all the dumpsters and
like construction sites right there. But I feel like they
didn't do that at all with this, so so I
don't know. That's mostly what I have And like, like
(51:39):
I said, I don't think they checked the time stamp
if it was different, because it doesn't make sense that
she's just wandering for an hour.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
And I feel like she was probably a victim of
a random psycho. That That's what I feel like. And
I also feel like in crime ridden areas police are
not as well. And I'm gonna say it from both sides.
(52:17):
They're desensitized to it most likely, and just you know,
don't they have a level of empathy that's not there anymore,
just because they deal with it all the time, and
they're probably extremely overworked in that area. Yeah, probably when
you see something like this pop across your desk, it's
(52:39):
probably one of those just like up, just another Tuesday,
here we go. I got six of these, you know,
And I'm not I'm not trying to say I'm not
trying to be unempathetic or say anything bad about Chris Kirsten.
I'm just saying that's probably the mindset of that department
(53:01):
in that area, you know.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yeah, And I guess the police headquarters, like one of
the headquarters is like right there too.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Yeah, so you'd think they would check their cameras outside.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
But yeah, once again, I feel like I feel like
it's just one of those like subtle indifferences they have
towards people that already have charges and are not they
think they're not on the right path, you know, And
I don't know, it's it's a it's a real shame
that we don't have any answers for any of this.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah, but it's still an active case. One more sharing
my screen for her? Which one is it?
Speaker 2 (53:48):
This?
Speaker 1 (53:50):
No, not that, not that stop that's my notes. I
mean it's basically says the same, but this is this one.
This is the poster, the missing person poster, so pictures
of her and what she was wearing or whatever. But
(54:13):
if you have any information on this, then they want to,
you know, contact IMPD still at three one seven three
two seven six one six zero, And there's also an
anonymous tip line at three one seven two seven nine
six zero eight two or email missing Persons at Indie
(54:37):
dot gov. So those are kind of options if anyone
who's happy to listen to us knows anything.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
So yeah, I mean yeah, we'll have all those linked
in the show notes too. So if you happen to
know anything about this case, or you happen to know
any details, I mean, like Sarah said, it's still an
open investigation, you know, could be.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Or you see her in a different city.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
There you go. I was just about to say that
it could it could be the difference between you know,
us thinking she was just snatched up by some random
person and maybe she did run away, you know. So
all right, well, listeners, hope you guys enjoyed the episode.
As always, if you want to check out any other
(55:23):
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(55:44):
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going to wrap it up for today, and as always.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Remember just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching.
See you next time on the paranoid perspective,
Hey everyone, exciting news. We've officially launched The Paranoid Perspective Patreon.
If you love what we do unpacking conspiracies, chasing mysteries,
and laughing through the weirdness, now you can support the
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Speaker 2 (00:13):
So for as little as five dollars a month, you
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what do we get with tier one?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So Tier one is the Curious Minds and you get
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Speaker 2 (00:32):
Next tier this is what you guys really probably want.
Ad free episodes. We don't need those pesky ads that
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Speaker 1 (00:47):
You also get it ahead of time, so before the
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Speaker 2 (00:56):
So if you guys are interested, check in the show
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com Forward Slash the Paranoid Perspective podcast. Welcome back to
(01:19):
the Paranoid Perspective.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I'm Jake and I'm Sarah.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Sarah, I've been thinking about this here lately and we
have had some fucking crazy experiences happened in our life.
I'm like having this like thinking back to like different
things a little bit, man, because like I don't know,
I've never thought about it that way, but it's like,
now that we've started this, I've like, man, we've had
(01:45):
some wild shit happen in our life. I mean, hell,
you're joining colts and I'm astral projecting, and I think
the theme of this episode is we're going to kind
of keep going down that same vein because this hits
close to home again, you know, right.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, So this week we're talking about the disappearance of
Kirsten Brighaman, which she was born nineteen ninety four to
her parents, Lisa and Rex, and she lived in Indianapolis,
And actually she went to my middle school and high school,
so I knew her. She was in my graduating class,
(02:24):
and eventually she did become part of my friend group
in high school, although like we didn't stay friends past
high school, so I don't know her like when she disappeared,
but we were friends. She was part of my group.
You know, I think I'm gonna have a lot of
screenshots and stuff to share, But first thing I'm sharing
to prove to people.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Whoops, hey you're muted. You're muted?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Am I back on? Yeah, you're good now okay, I
hit the top of my mic. Okay, so this is
my yearbook and this is me right there as a senior,
and then this is Kirsten. I don't want to show
anyone else's pictures, but there's Kirsten. So we're in the
(03:19):
same grade. And I was gonna share my screen. How
do I share just part of my screen? Select a
t oh, a window? Okay, I should practice this before
it's all good.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We're doing all the fly magic vett and will work
everything out.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, I'm gonna have to move you down here. Oops. Oh,
do keep hitting the same button. Okay, so share this screen.
There you go. This is a picture I took up
Kirsten and our friend so she was in our friend group,
(04:06):
not just in the same high school. So right now
I'm sharing that so just for the people who would
say that I didn't actually know her whatever, right.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Well, the thing the thing too, I appreciate the context too,
because I mean, you never know, people say crazy shit
all the time about how they knew people the fact
and whatnot. But I think it's I think everybody can
relate to, you know, the friend group that you had
in middle school and high school is usually like you think,
you guys are always going to stay together and you're
going to know each other forever. Dude, I don't even
(04:43):
think I talked to anybody I went to high school
with anymore, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah? Right, I don't either. Yeah, I don't talk to
anyone from high school. So but yeah, I mean she
was kind of weird in high school, but the rest
of us worked too in our group, so she'd been
in pretty well.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
We're all teenagers, man, we're at that awkward stage in
our life where we don't know what the hell we're doing.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Everybody's weird, yeah right, Yeah, And I mean she did
kind of worm her way into our group, like we
kind of joked, like when did you become part of
our group? But like we still appreciate her being in
the group. Yeah, but she did seem kind of like
(05:26):
a loner, like a loner kid, like kind of on
her own. I mean I feel like I did too
in high school, because you know, you have like high
school friends and then you don't really hang out with
them like outside of school. So I feel like she
was kind of like that, and I was kind of
like that back then. But she did have some mental
(05:47):
health issues, but again, like who doesn't unless yeah, I
think everyone does. But but like that, like back in
high school even it was like evident that there was
issues and stuff, and she was very much into weed,
which it's illegal in Indiana. So for now, she got
(06:10):
into trouble later with it is it isn't it still?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I think so? But I mean that's that's yeah, long
for this world anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I don't think, well, no, but Indiana is going to
be like the last one sure to accept it or whatever.
So but yeah, she also became an alcoholic later in life,
which I guess her dad was a recovering alcoholic, so
they often had arguments about her like following his footsteps
(06:40):
in that way, but she would like refuse to talk
about it. I guess there's a documentary that I watched
where her parents talk about her and stuff, so I
guess anytime he brought it up, she'd just leave the room.
But they said before she disappeared, like to her parents
at least, it seemed like she was starting to part
life back together, like she had a steady job, and
(07:03):
she couldn't drive because of like a dui, but like
she was staying away from alcohol more and it seemed
like maybe she was on the right track. She also
had two pitbulls, Dex and Tifa. I think Dex maybe
was like the family dog, but Tifa was her dog,
which is like a tan and white pit bull, okay,
(07:25):
and she loved animals. And then so at the time
she went missing, she was twenty six. This happened in
I say twenty twenty one, No you did.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, I was gonna ask when did she disappear because
I watched a few things on it, but I never
got like a date pin down for it.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. It was January's second, twenty twenty one, so right
after New Year's So she was twenty six at the time.
She is five to two, she's pretty short, and she
was around one hundred and fifteen pounds, so pretty light well,
And at the time she was living with her parents,
and she still can't drive because of her dy, so
(08:06):
her mom often like gave her rides to like friends
or her job. So January first, twenty twenty one, she
worked the night shift at CEC's Pizza, which is no
longer there, but it was on the south side of Indianapolis,
and she got off at ten PM, and I guess
that CEC's closed in twenty twenty four. It was open then.
(08:31):
And then her mom was supposed to pick her up
since she got off at ten, but she ended up
texting her mom saying she was going to go out
with some friends. I guess to a bar. So she
ended up going to Manly's Irish Mutt, which is on
the east side. I've never heard of it, but it's
(08:52):
like tenth in shadeland it's like really like southeast. Yeah,
and she went with her on again off again boyfriend
Eddie Bradford, which in high school she was dating him,
so I didn't really know him, but we'll get into
it later. Yeah, he was yeah, and then I guess
(09:13):
his friends Jared Kramerer and Olivia dufour and then Olivia's
friend Robin Hurt also was there. And it's not clear
how Keirston got from CC's to this bar because it's
like a fifteen minute drive on four sixty five. Wow,
(09:33):
No one, it doesn't yeah, and it doesn't say like
I guess if she if they looked at her text
like she didn't ask her boyfriend or whatever to drive
her or whatever. Maybe she got an uber I'm not
I'm not sure, but they didn't really ever say how
she got there. And then they stayed there for a while.
(09:56):
But this bar closed at twelve thirty. I guess because
of like the OVID restrictions. Oh yeah, yeah, I know, yeah, yeah,
So they ended up leaving the area. But I guess
before that, there's some conflicting information from this friend group
(10:16):
or whatever. But they said, like Kirsten and Eddie got
into a fight about something, and at first, like Eddie
had said that when he arrived at the bar, Kirsten
was already drunk, so he left, but then his friend
Jared called him back, so he went back to the bar.
(10:36):
So that doesn't I don't know if that's true. But
he also said Eddie, well, Eddie said Kirsten threw up
on a table and they got kicked out of the bar.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
But then these are just all over the place, and.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, right, because other people say, like the bar was
already closing, so that's why they left. But then he's
saying that they get kicked out because Kirsten was so
drunk that she threw up on a table. So I
don't know, it's a little weird, but like the friend
group was talking about going to a bowling alley in
Beech Grove for some reason at twelve thirty pp.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
But if everybody's if everybody's drinking in a bar close early,
that's usually the thing to do. If you still want
to go out and do stuff, you know what I mean,
just go find another spot.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I guess. Yeah, but yeah, they said. I guess they
all said that Kirsten was angry about something and started
to fight with them since she was drunk, and I
guess they offered to take her home at first, and
she said no, and then I guess she hit she
(11:45):
punched the window of Olivia's car, I guess. And then
so Olivia drove away at that point, and I guess
everyone else was already in the car.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Oh okay, so like everyone left. Yeah, yeah, so it's
a little.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Weird too that everyone's in the car if she's arguing
with Eddie. I don't know, but I guess she punched
the window and they drove away, and then Kirsten just
starts walking. But I don't know. A lot of people say, like,
you know, how could friends leave her? But these people
weren't really her friends, like this is the first time
(12:23):
they had met her, like they were Eddie's.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Right, And I mean I've been I've been in situations
before where I've had people that friends of friends that
you know, come to bars and hang out and whatnot.
And I'm going to tell you right now, I would
never do anything intentionally to hurt anybody. But at the
same time, I'm not really worried about my friend's friends,
you know what I mean, I don't I don't know
(12:48):
these people, right, And I don't mean to sound like
cold or dispassionate about it. It's just like, if you're
acting crazy and I don't even know you, I'm probably
just going to do the same thing and go away.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, especially if they did or she did hit right
the window or whatever. Yeah, I mean it makes sense
to me once I heard that they weren't really her friends,
because if they were her actual friends, then yeah, it's
pretty shitty they just left. Yeah, I mean they didn't
know her at all, Like it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, if one of my friends was acting crazy at
the bar, I'd be like, dude, shut the fuck up
and get my car, or I'm putting you in the car. Well,
you know what I mean, we're not doing this.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, well, and I feel like Eddie could have done
that because they he is the off again, on again
boyfriend and she's like one hundred and fifteen pounds, Like,
we ton't weigh that much.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
If they're If they're the on again, off again they're
probably not really ever in the best of terms either,
you know, if it's always coming going back and forth.
I mean, I don't know the guy, but I know
people that have had those on again, off again relationships
and they go from these ebbs and flows of loving
each other to fucking hating each other. So I mean, yeah,
(13:55):
it could have been one of those situations where since
they were fighting, he was just like, yeah, fuck the
I'm not dealing with it right.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, it's true. And they they were probably all drunk
to some extent or whatever. Hopefully not the driver, I
don't know, but like they weren't all making the best
decisions at twelve thirty am after a night of the bars.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
You know, I don't think anybody really.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
No, but yeah, So they ended up leaving her there
and she never made a home from there, so her
parents reported her missing the next day. The third, and
then on Monday, a detective was assigned to the case
Nicole Bockting. But I guess her parents didn't really want
(14:46):
to wait till because they called like Sunday morning and
then they were like, okay, we'll assign a detective tomorrow,
and it was like okay. So her parents ended up
driving to the bar before ever talking to the detective
to like see if they could find anything in the area.
And I guess there's like a nearby drainage ditch, so
they looked in there and everything too, like in case
(15:07):
she fell down there or something someone did something to her.
But they didn't find anything, and they ended up running
into her ex Eddie like on his bike like also
looking for her. So I thought that was a little weird,
but I guess that's fine because he lives he lived
at the time with his mom, like pretty close to
(15:29):
that bar, like only like four blocks away or something.
So I guess he was just out looking for her
because they had called him saying, hey, where is she
before they reported her missing.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
That's what I was about to ask. I was like, well,
how did he know she was missing? That would have been.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Righted immediately, you know, right well, it's always the significant other,
that's at first. No matter what, you're.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Not wrong, that significant family member or the significant other
is always the prime suspect with the detective thing. I
don't Once again, I don't mean to sound like dispassionate
about anything or you know, I'm not trying to discredit
anybody's loss or you know, freaking out in that situation,
because I know I would if my one of my
(16:15):
children were missing. Yeah, but usually twenty four hours. Like,
I don't think anybody really takes that very seriously, you know,
if they're missing for twenty four hours, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, don't they wait after twenty four hours? Or is
it forty eight?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Even now because she is twenty six.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
So yeah, well that's what I'm saying. It's a it's
an adult woman. Yeah, and she could have just stayed
with somebody, you know what I mean, or I don't
know that. I'm trying to think about it from the
other perspective of, you know, the police department and the
detectives and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we'll get into it what the
police did or did not do. But yeah, so I
mean the first thing the detective did do is try
to ping her phone to see where it was that night,
but then they found out that it had died before
she ever even left the bar, so they couldn't use
(17:12):
that to track her. They also, I guess, had horse
patrols go through trails in the area, which I thought
was a little strange. But I think there's a walking
trail like four or five blocks south. I guess, I
don't know, but that's what I found is they used
(17:32):
horses and they also had drones up in the air,
but they didn't find anything I could not find. I
don't think they used search dogs like for scent, which
is a little weird to me, But because I could
not find that anywhere.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I wonder though, with it being in the city, if
it would even be practical to use that for a
missing person, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Like that, I don't know. I just feel like they
always use dogs, but I guess, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Well yeah, I'm trying to think about that too. But
I feel like every time I've seen the search dogs
employed somewhere, it's always been in a very rural area, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Like the woods, and so yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Maybe it's normal to do horse but well, the horse thing.
I mean, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I don't don't I know, that's what I found.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I know downtown Indianapolis there are mounted patrols for police officers.
I didn't know it extended like to every corner of
the city.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
But I mean, okay, right, I guess if they're free,
I guess. I don't know. But the detective did find
three CCTV videos in the surrounding area. So one video
showed her having a verbal argument in the parking lot
with a car and then the car drove away, so
(18:58):
it kind of verified what the friends were saying.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Oh, punch in the window and I think maybe.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, right, and then she just kind of walks starts walking,
so it shows that. And that was around twelve thirty am.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Okay, so timeframe then, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
The same timeframe, so that makes sense. Then there's a
video at twelve forty am that she's walking south on
short Ridge Road. And then the next video they found
like there's a YMCA close by, so in the parking
lot there's a video. But this video is at one
(19:38):
fifty nine am. Oh wow, it's like a big gap. Yeah,
And this shows her like bending down to pick something
up and then she like walks around the fence line
in the area, and it's a little difficult to see
that's her because you know, CCTV sucks for some reason.
But her parents said, like, from the way she was
(19:59):
walking like that looks like her. You could you pick
I agree from.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
You could pick up mannerisms off CCTV. They do suck
when it comes to quality, which is always kind of
funny to me because even in twenty twenty one, we
had good video quality for just about everything. I mean, hell,
you have better video quality in your fucking pocket than
you do for that stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Right, Yeah, but yeah, then she was The video also
has like she has a white backpack, which she always
had this white backpack, like she was always wearing it.
So like they kind of verified it was heard. Then.
So I'm going to share my screen again. Hopefully this
goes better this time. Window this one share you could
(20:46):
see that, right, So yes, So this is the first
video of her. This is her just walking down which
to me, I don't know, I mean, maybe she's looks
a little drunk. I don't know, it's a little hard
to tell.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, it's kind of wobbly for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Again, Yeah, maybe she's wobbly.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
For listeners of the podcast, we're watching someone on a
CCT walking down a sidewalk.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, with the white backpack, which it's like her. So
that was one of them. Did I stop sharing, I.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Hope, So yeah, you're kid.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, I mean I didn't everything about it, okay, And
so the y m C A one though, I'm gonna
pull up that next, but that had a problem because
it glitched conveniently, which I'm a little suspicious about this
(21:50):
head of music, and I didn't want that. Okay, So
this one first before I show it. But the this
is from the whatever that documentary saw, so it's a
screencrap of it. But it shows the first the time
in the corner, and it says like two am and
(22:10):
like eighteen seconds or something, and then it jumps to
two thirty am, so it misses like thirty minutes.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Oh wow, and.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, which is kind of crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I think, and then a couple minutes. I wasn't expecting
it to be at half an hour.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, shit, it's for half an hour. So like when
it shows the rest of the video, it'll show that
she's just walking around along the fence and then she
just literally like disappears from the view. Okay, I don't know.
I'm suspicious about that because I don't get like how
(22:49):
it's missing thirty minutes. But yeah, first it shows the time,
so it says two am, and then it switches to
to thirty oh, and it's going to show her walking
and then she just disappears.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So well, yeah, because it's a fucking thirty minute gap,
I know, holy shit, I know.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So, I mean the documentary kind of jumped on that,
and a lot of people I think are jumping on
that because it just disappears and that's the last time
like anyone sees her. So it's very bizarre.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I mean, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It's a glitch apparently, is what the detective said.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
So well, I wonder though, I would want to know
how often do CCT cameras, Yeah, glitch like significant amount
of time like that. That is super odd that you
would have like like, like I said at the beginning,
I was thinking maybe two minutes, three minutes tops something like.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
That right where it's yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
You could have had something like maybe like a power
surge or an outage for that like quick little or
you know whatever until they reset it and sure that
would be something like that, But thirty minutes is unbelievably
long for a glitch.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, so right, yeah, I think it's crazy. And the
detective just you know, says, oh, it's a glitch, Like,
I don't know, did they look at who had access
to this or anything?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I feel like, maybe it's not a glitch, but I
don't know, maybe it is, but I feel like they
didn't investigate as much, like who could have deleted some
of this footage? Maybe it's not that easy, I guess too.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, well, I'm curious now, and listeners, I apologize I'm
googling how often cct TV's glitch because this doesn't seem
like I don't know, I.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Mean, it's a poorer area, so maybe it's not as
maintained or something.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
I mean, I guess once again, it okay. So, for example,
if the time randomly jumps from like a minute nine
to two minutes, this would be a definite sign that
someone removed a section of the footage. So right off
the bat, we're seeing fifty seconds would be a definite
(25:19):
sign that somebody removed footage. So according to Yeah, now,
granted I just did a quick Google search on that,
but if that's what it's saying based off of the
first result that I see, and all I typed in
listeners was how often do CCT? Uh? Yeah, what did
(25:40):
I say? How often do cct's glitch? Is what I
typed into Google. So if it's saying that off for
fifty seconds, I think it's kind of fucking weird that
we had thirty minutes of missing time just not there
and it's just a glitch.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Right, yeah, because someone could grabbed her then, I mean
someone would have had to have access then to delete.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
That too, So it's it is.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
A little like maybe park fetched, like yeah, I know
the cameras there and everything, so it was a little
I don't know, it's just weird, and I don't like
the When I was watching the document, it seemed like
the detective just kind of it was like, well, it's
a glitch, all right, like okay, And I mean they, yeah,
(26:30):
I think they did look at other areas in that
place to see if she ever popped up again, But
I don't know how many have you know, cameras and
stuff anyway in that area. Ye, So but yeah, I'm
going to show a map that says a lot of
stuff to show. Sorry maybe sorry listeners.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Put head over to YouTube and to check out all
of this scorious video.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah, so this is where she worked at the CCS
down here, and then her parents kind of lived by
the high school uppere and then this is the area
where she went. So there's Manly's Irish Mutt and then
that's the YMCA. And some people think maybe she was
(27:23):
going to this bowling like Ali, thinking that that's where
her friends were going, but they were going to Beech Grove,
which is like a south side like down here right right,
So well zoom, but maybe she was confused.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, zoom back end of that real quick, just so
listeners of the show can have some context. The bar
that she was at and where the CCT is at
is within two square blocks, so we're not talking a
super far distance here, right.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, And I mean some people were thinking, you know,
I mean, the question is where was she walking to?
But people said maybe she was trying to go home,
but like her home is north in Lawrence. Well plus
it's also like yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
And that's probably like if you're on foot, that's going
to take you hours to walk that.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yes, it was six miles away, yeah, oh yes.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, And in the middle of winter in Indiana, which
is sometimes not too bad, but it's pretty fucking cold
most of the time.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, I did look up the temperature on that day,
which I will say later because it's down farther and
I don't want to lose my place put Oh but
my first question though, I think the YMCA time is wrong,
Like I think it wasn't updated for daylight savings time
(28:49):
because she's on short Ridge Road at twelve forty, which
is like literally right at the corner where Manly's Irish
Mutt is like down a block at that corner, and
then it's two o'clock when she gets to YMCA.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Okay, So that would make a lot of sense if
they were not, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Because yeah, because then it would be twelve to fifty
nine instead. So it's only like nineteen minutes, right, which
is I feel like, yeah, especially if you're kind of
drunk and or you know, just kind of wandering. Yeah,
like that could take that long. So I'm wondering if
the detectives looked at that time period, because everyone I
(29:32):
see is focused on two o'clock, and it's like, maybe
look between twelve forty and two. I guess if you want.
But I wonder if they only looked around like two
o'clock on the other teap like cameras in the.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Area, I guarantee you they did. If they just saw
the time stamp and just were like, oh, that's when
we last saw her. You know, they probably weren't accounting
for anything like.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
That, right because Daily Savings was only like two months ago.
Cameras are not updated like ever, so right, I could
see that happening, So I don't know, I think they
need to look at that. But some people think maybe
she was going to Eddie's mom's house. Like I said,
he kind of lived close by. But that was also
(30:14):
like north. It was like a couple of blocks, like
up here somewhere, So she went south, so it's like
where is she going?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Regardless, both places that would be assumed she would be
leaving two are the opposite direction.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, and it's so close to the highway for sixty
five's right there. I feel like if someone grabbed her,
oh would.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Be too easy. Yeah, you're looking at a major highway
that runs around the circumference of Indiana. That is what
five six blocks? Yeah, you know, so, yeah, it would
take no time to do that.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, so you know, the detective kinda was looking for
input from the community after the glitch thing, and then
they didn't find any other video. They just kind of said,
you know, we need tips from the community and didn't
do too much else, I think. So in March, her
(31:15):
parents hired a private investigator named Crystal and she had
a ninety percent rate of solving cases, and they also
offered yeah, and they also offered a ten thousand dollars
reward for any information that led to finding Kirsten, so
hoping to get some people. So the investigator saw, I
(31:41):
don't know where this is from, but I saw on
like CCTV at two thirty eight a suv coming out
of Abbey Meadows Apartments, which was just south of the YMCA,
and they thought maybe that had something to do with it.
It's very hard to see because it's just a black
suv and like the corner of a camera, and also
(32:03):
it might be at the wrong time anyway, Yeah, at
night it was a black truck or whatever. Yeah, black suv.
But then like they saw it two thirty eight and
then they saw it again at three point fifteen. It
was just kind of going back and forth, which was weird.
Like on this road there was just kind of wandering
and going into a parking lone then coming back out
(32:23):
and whatever. So they did, you know, give that to
the police, and I guess the FBI ended up helping
identify the SUV because I think the police at first
were like, it's too hard to see what the car is, right,
so they didn't. But the FBI ended up figuring out
who owned that car, and that car was linked to
(32:45):
a homicide that occurred at the Abbey Meadow apartments like
that night, okay, at the same time. Yeah, So so
they had the car I guess in custody and whatever
it is compounded, so they did DNA testing and then
they were able to eliminate that, like Kirsten had never
(33:08):
been in that car, but at first that seemed like.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
A good lead, but it was associated with a homicide
nonetheless on the same night.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yes, yeah, this is not the best area.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's funny when we've talked about this,
all of these things that you find out from one
simple case could lead to like six others, you know
what I mean. It's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, it's just kind of what is what's everyone doing?
These freak I mean just something's everywhere.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Killing Yeah, apparently murderers everywhere.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Right, Yeah, so I guess it kind of went cold
after that. Sixteen weeks later, her parents saw a Facebook
post about like a men's body that was found that
was close to Kirsten's description, but that body did have
like a spider tattoo on her arm, which her parents
didn't think that she had, but they still like told
(34:11):
the detective, and the detective did a DNA test and
it wasn't Kirsten either. For that, and then September they
held a vigil so hopefully like they held it at
the YMCA or in the field next to it to
helpfully get like people in the community to come out
and give information and stuff. But I think not a
(34:34):
lot of people actually attended. I think in that area
they have a distrust of police of course, sure, so
they no one really was coming with ideas or anything,
but they did try that. And then in March twenty
twenty two, they had a lead from Franklin, Indiana at
a bar and they said someone walked in who maybe
(34:57):
looked like Kirston, like the bar manager someone called the
police to try and see but through like the TV's
like the cameras in that bar and stuff, they confirmed
it wasn't her in May, so she's still missing. So
it's what like four years now. And Kirsten did have
(35:19):
some criminal charges at the time. So in twenty seventeen
she had a DUI like I said, so she couldn't
drive still, and then twenty eighteen it said possession of
paraphernalia which was marijuana, which is stupid but whatever. And
then twenty eighteen she had another d I so that
made it worse. And then December twenty twenty she had
(35:43):
another possession of marijuana. So that was just eighteen days
before she went missing, right, and that's still like active,
Like she still has a warrant out for that.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Oh it's still active.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, it's weird. And the initial hearing
for that was first scheduled for like January thirteenth, so like,
you know, eleven days after she went missing. But right, So,
like because of that kind of stuff, some people think
she left town like she got mad or something and thought,
(36:17):
you know, I don't have anyone here, so she left.
But the biggest problem with that is she left her dog.
Like her parents said, you know, if she left, she
would have tried to take Tifa no matter what, so
they don't think she just left. And also I guess
she left a big paycheck behind at her work, so
(36:39):
that wouldn't really make sense that she just left.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah. The other thing too, like there would be at
this point, there would have been some some sort of contact
I would think would have been tried to be made.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, you know, I don't think she would stop talking
to her family.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Or Eddie maybe, or I know she probably didn't have,
like you said in the beginning, the best relationship with
her family, but you would still eventually, I would think,
try to reach out, because I mean, if you just
decided to dip town, I would assume at some point
in time, you would see something about you missing or
(37:21):
all these documentaries or something like that and be like,
oh shit, I need to call somebody and be like, hey,
don't say anything, but I'm alive. Just don't come back.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Height Yeah, I don't freaking out, O know what I mean? Yeah,
you would think so, I think so. I mean, I
don't think it makes sense that she just got mad
at the bar or whatever.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
And then I'm not buying that.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah. And then people also say, like Eddie was abusive
towards her there on again off again relationship was for
ten years, so I started when she was sixteen, and
it wasn't the best dynamic, like I said. And he
also has a lot of criminal charges as well, Like
(38:03):
in twenty twenty October he had a battery charge which
I don't think was like against Kirston.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
But well, nonetheless, I mean you start seeing a little
bit of a pattern of behavior.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, And he had two different no contact orders, which
one was in relation to the battery charge and one
was from twenty thirteen. And then he also had some
like possession of marijuana, and he had some small claims
court stuff from property damage at apartment complexes.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Okay, so yeah, we're definitely seeing a pattern of destructiveness
a little bit here.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah. So some people think maybe he went back after
he was done with his friends and like did something
to her, But like, I don't know. I mean there's
no evidence of that obviously. I don't know if they
checked like his phone, where was he the whole time?
I think they could bring his ping his phone. Yeah,
(39:07):
see if he went.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Home, I don't know though, because like you said, kind
at the beginning too, that would be I would assume
the primary suspect. If you would something happened to her,
that's the first person you would investigate. So, like you said,
I there would one hundred percent be phone, some sort
of evidence from the phone, whether it be location, whether
(39:30):
it be text messages, whether you know, a plethora of things.
And not to mention too, you could have talked to
his mom, was he wanted he get home? And you
know what I mean that just I don't know about
that one either. I mean, yeah, the pattern of behavior, sure,
we can kind of go off of that that he
might have been abusive. I don't know that. I don't
(39:52):
know the guy. I don't know if he actually did
anything to her, but he does have that behavior towards
others for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean maybe they did investigate that, but
it didn't make the cut for the documentary. I mean
it was an hour so yeah, but I don't know.
I thought that was weird that that's not even mentioned
at all, like if they how they investigated him or anything,
because he also lives, you know, like four blocks away, right,
even if they went down to the bowling alley, maybe
(40:21):
when they drove back they saw her on the street
or something.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Especially I don't know, I was wandering.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, so I'm yeah, I'm not sure how much the
police actually did. But the other friends, they didn't have
any record. Really, I look, I looked to them all
up but public ye. So but yeah, we can get
(40:50):
into the theories. Like I said, one was maybe Eddie
did something. So we already kind of talked about that one.
We already talked about that she skipped town. I guess
she had two warrants out for her rest at the
time and both are still active today, which is weird.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
It well, but even like having a warrant out for
your arrest, I don't know. You see all those like
cop shows, and I mean I see it on TikTok
from time to time about how somebody just got pulled
over for speeding and they were like, oh, you know,
you have warrants thout for your arrest. So it's like,
are they even actively looking for you? I mean, I'm
(41:30):
sure it's in some capacity, right, probably are. But I
see a lot of those videos where it's like a
stupid like a speeding ticket and they run their information.
They're like, oh, you've got a warrant out of this
county for you blah blah blah blah. So the skipping
town thing, if she's already had issues with law enforcement,
she probably already knows that, Okay, what are they going
(41:51):
to do there, and they're not going to come find
me unless I do something dumb most likely.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Yeah right, yeah. So but one aspect of this too
is some people say the police didn't do enough because
of her records.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I could believe that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Another theory is that she committed suicide. Like I said,
she had some mental health issues. But you know, again,
I don't think she would have left her dog, and
I don't I feel like she'd leave a note too,
like who's gonna and not just on the street or
something like. It doesn't really make any sense. Yeah, and
(42:34):
she should have been found.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I was about to say, I was just about to
say that if you're in the middle of the city
or on the southeast side of that city, like you
said at the beginning, they even checked like the drainage
ditch by there to make sure that she didn't fall
in there or whatever. I mean. Yeah, if if she
was having problems with mental health and considering that option,
(42:58):
you would have found something by now, I mean, correct
me if I'm wrong, But I don't think there's like
any major waterways down that way. There's no like real
wooded areas within that, you know, kind of radius of
where she was at, so you would have found I mean,
there is something.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Right there is a creek, but it's past Washington Street,
so it'd be like ten or fifteen blocks away, but
it was like towards the south the way she was walking. Yeah,
but there is a creek down there. I mean it's winter,
so who knows how much waters in the creek right, so,
and there is like a walking trail also by the
(43:39):
creek that's like wooded, but not wooded that much. Another
theory is that she ended up falling asleep somewhere because
she was intoxicated and then passed away from exposure and
they just haven't found her still yet. But I feel
like same thing.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Yeah, once again, you would have found her by now,
somebody would have ye found her. No, don't even know
that that first part of that theory pop probable. You're
too drunk, you pass out, it's the middle of winter,
you're on the street, you die of hypothermia. Yep, guess
what people are going to see when they're driving by
(44:21):
a body on the street or a body, yeah, or
a body in an alleyway or some somebody within a
couple of days would have found that.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Right, Yeah, and this is where the temperature is. It
was thirty four degrees fahrenheit that night, so one of
degree celsius.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah, so definitely cold enough. If you spend enough time
out there too, and weren't properly dressed, you could definitely,
you know, definitely get hypothermia.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
The last two theories are kind of in the same vein,
like either someone grabbed her for human trafficking or what,
or you know, someone grabbed her to kill her. I guess,
so those are kind of the options, Like someone that
didn't know her, that just saw her wandering around and
grabbed her. And then like we said, for sixty five's
(45:13):
right there, they could be literally anywhere in the world.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, I mean, you don't even have to expand it
out that far. They could be anywhere within the country.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Yeah, you know, right, So that's kind of I think
someone grabbed her.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
But I'm kind of on the same page as that,
Like I said, I've watched a handful of the stuff
on YouTube relating to her disappearance, and whatnot, and the
way that people don't just vanish if they die, you
know what I mean. They right, like we were talking
about earlier, somebody would have found her laying in the
(45:54):
street or in an alleyway or something like that. I'm
pretty convinced what hapen and was when she was probably
walking down that street. Somebody probably snatched her up. And
I mean, like you said, you could have taken her
anywhere at that point.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, right, and oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Did she did she? I don't know if it's known
or anything, but with her with her criminal record, I
wonder if she was buying anything from anybody in that area.
I mean, I would think it could be a possibility,
you know.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, I mean I'm sure she had a dealer for weed. Yeah,
and they could be in that area because Eddie lived
there too, so maybe they would go and get some
together or something. I mean, it could be someone like that.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah, I mean, they knew her. I don't know though,
because I feel I feel like when when stuff like
this happens and people get kidnapped or people murdered, it's
the hardest ones to find are the just the random
psychopaths that just snatched people out of nowhere, and they
don't have a pattern, they don't have a motive, because
(47:11):
it's really easy to catch somebody. I feel like that
had an emotional attachment to someone that murdered somebody.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah right, I mean it's like that, what was that
one guy that just picked a city and went there
or like stashed the kill kits or whatever, Yeah, and
just randomly picked someone.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, or even like Richard Ramirez, the night stalker. You know,
he would just pick a random person from my understanding,
and it was really hard to catch him.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, yeah, it would be hard. Also, where she went
missing is a pretty big crime area. I pulled up
the crime map and it wasn't like dark blue, like
right north of it is dark blue. This is medium blue.
The darker it is, the more crime. But uh yeah,
(48:06):
that's kind of why I have I have questions myself
just for the maybe I should call it in the
tip or something. I kind of want to go back
to the map for a second. Worries, Okay, because if
you can see that, So there's the YMCA, there's the apartment,
(48:29):
and she was going south and then, like I said,
if you get past Washington Street, then there's a lake
or a creek right there. So I don't know how
many blocks one, two, three, four, five, maybe like six
blocks actually or seven. Sure, I feel like she could
have made it down there. And this is the walking
(48:50):
trail that's even more north than the creek. So and
that's a bunch of wooded area. I just don't know
if the seed not. Yeah, it's not that big. Yeah,
but there's also like a retention pond.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Oh yeah, right off to the west of that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Yeah. So I don't know what's like because the documentary,
you know, doesn't cover all this. But I feel like
they just looked at the immediate like I feel like
they stopped looking after Washington Street, like they just looked
around the YMCA, this apartment complex and that's it, and
like she could have easily just kept walking south. So
(49:35):
I wonder if they ever searched farther south of that well.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
And I hate to say it, but I feel like
you're probably pretty spot on with they were looking at
her as an individual and just like whatever. You know,
she's already got all these charges and she's probably just
mixed up with the wrong people and you know, probably
got herself killed. And when you know what I mean,
(50:00):
I mean, that's kind of that's kind of what I
got from watching a handful of these documentaries too, when
they did talk to anybody. I don't know if I
ever watched one with the actual detective, but it's kind
of like it was never said, but it felt like
that was the sentiment, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Yeah, right, that's what I'm kind of thinking. This was
on Disappeared, like it's an id thing, I think, or
Discovery something like that, but they had the detective actually
talk and stuff, and to me, it seemed like and
they were very focused on the glitch of the video,
like that was half of the documentary. So I'm like,
(50:40):
if it's a glitch, then move on from it, like
they would just say it's just a glitch, but then
they would talk about it a lot, right, it was
like I don't know. Also, I'm wondering if they checked
dumpsters at all, because I looked it up and the
houses that are right there at least they get picked
up on Monday. So I wonder if the dumpsters would
(51:02):
also get picked up like on Monday, because this happened
on Saturday. But I don't know if they checked dumpsters
before the detective really got involved because like I.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Kind of.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of the disappearance of
Lauren Spearr at IU Indiana University, and like the first
thing that the police checked were all the dumpsters and
like construction sites right there. But I feel like they
didn't do that at all with this, so so I
don't know. That's mostly what I have And like, like
(51:39):
I said, I don't think they checked the time stamp
if it was different, because it doesn't make sense that
she's just wandering for an hour.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
And I feel like she was probably a victim of
a random psycho. That That's what I feel like. And
I also feel like in crime ridden areas police are
not as well. And I'm gonna say it from both sides.
(52:17):
They're desensitized to it most likely, and just you know,
don't they have a level of empathy that's not there anymore,
just because they deal with it all the time, and
they're probably extremely overworked in that area. Yeah, probably when
you see something like this pop across your desk, it's
(52:39):
probably one of those just like up, just another Tuesday,
here we go. I got six of these, you know,
And I'm not I'm not trying to say I'm not
trying to be unempathetic or say anything bad about Chris Kirsten.
I'm just saying that's probably the mindset of that department
(53:01):
in that area, you know.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yeah, And I guess the police headquarters, like one of
the headquarters is like right there too.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Yeah, so you'd think they would check their cameras outside.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
But yeah, once again, I feel like I feel like
it's just one of those like subtle indifferences they have
towards people that already have charges and are not they
think they're not on the right path, you know, And
I don't know, it's it's a it's a real shame
that we don't have any answers for any of this.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah, but it's still an active case. One more sharing
my screen for her? Which one is it?
Speaker 2 (53:48):
This?
Speaker 1 (53:50):
No, not that, not that stop that's my notes. I
mean it's basically says the same, but this is this one.
This is the poster, the missing person poster, so pictures
of her and what she was wearing or whatever. But
(54:13):
if you have any information on this, then they want to,
you know, contact IMPD still at three one seven three
two seven six one six zero, And there's also an
anonymous tip line at three one seven two seven nine
six zero eight two or email missing Persons at Indie
(54:37):
dot gov. So those are kind of options if anyone
who's happy to listen to us knows anything.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
So yeah, I mean yeah, we'll have all those linked
in the show notes too. So if you happen to
know anything about this case, or you happen to know
any details, I mean, like Sarah said, it's still an
open investigation, you know, could be.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Or you see her in a different city.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
There you go. I was just about to say that
it could it could be the difference between you know,
us thinking she was just snatched up by some random
person and maybe she did run away, you know. So
all right, well, listeners, hope you guys enjoyed the episode.
As always, if you want to check out any other
(55:23):
social media, just check out the paranoid perspective will be
probably everywhere, with the exception of I don't think we're
doing Twitter, but we're not really, we're not worried about Twitter. Yeah,
but any way you can interact with this post goes
so far anyway, whether it's just the YouTube video, whether
(55:44):
it's the podcast you're listening to, like it, give it
a rating, write us a review, give us a comment.
Any interaction would be greatly appreciated. And the best and
free way to always help us out is to share
this show with a friend. It goes so much fun
are there than you could even imagine. So that is
going to wrap it up for today, and as always.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Remember just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching.
See you next time on the paranoid perspective,
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