July 21, 2025 • 56 mins
In May 2014, an upscale lakeside home in Georgia became the scene of one of the most baffling and brutal crimes in recent history. 88-year-old Russell Dermond was found decapitated in his garage. His wife, Shirley, was missing—until her body was discovered days later, floating in Lake Oconee, weighed down by concrete blocks. There were no signs of forced entry. No known enemies. No clear motive.In this chilling episode of The Paranoid Perspective, we unravel the eerie details of the Dermond murders: a case that stumped seasoned investigators, haunted a quiet retirement community, and remains unsolved to this day. Was it a robbery gone wrong? A targeted hit? Or something even darker? Join us as we examine the facts, theories, and lingering questions behind this Southern Gothic mystery.If you have any information, you can contact the FBI’s Atlanta Field Office at 770-216-3000, or the Putnam County Sheriff's Office at 706-485-8557. You can also contact the nearest American Embassy or Consulate, or submit a tip online at https://tips.fbi.gov/home.
Extra Intel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_of_Russell_and_Shirley_Dermond
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/crime/cold-cases/fbi-new-leads-cellphone-data-dna-evidence-brutal-killings-elderly-georgia-couple-lake-oconee/85-9de921b0-385c-4305-9ebe-615ab3031eb4
https://www.13wmaz.com/article/news/local/where-you-live/dermond-family-established-in-restaurant-business/93-299102252
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/investigations/gone-cold/gone-cold-a-lake-with-no-leads-who-killed-the-dermonds/85-550562935
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Extra Intel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_of_Russell_and_Shirley_Dermond
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/crime/cold-cases/fbi-new-leads-cellphone-data-dna-evidence-brutal-killings-elderly-georgia-couple-lake-oconee/85-9de921b0-385c-4305-9ebe-615ab3031eb4
https://www.13wmaz.com/article/news/local/where-you-live/dermond-family-established-in-restaurant-business/93-299102252
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/investigations/gone-cold/gone-cold-a-lake-with-no-leads-who-killed-the-dermonds/85-550562935
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, exciting news. We've officially launched The Paranoid Perspective Patreon.
If you love what we do unpacking conspiracies, chasing mysteries,
and laughing through the weirdness, now you can support the
show and get more of it.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So for as little as five dollars a month, you
will get exclusive access in extra perks to the episode. Sarah,
what do we get with tier one?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So Tier one is the Curious Minds and you get
a shout out at the end of every episode.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Next tier this is what you guys really probably want.
Ad free episodes. We don't need those pesky ads that
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Speaker 1 (00:47):
You also get it ahead of time, so before the
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to watch or listen.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So if you guys are interested, check in the show
notes down below, or you can head to patreon dot
com Forward Slash the Paranoid Perspective podcast. Welcome back to
(01:18):
The Paranoid Perspective.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I am Jake and I'm Sarah.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So we've been talking about some out there stuff here lately.
Sarah so I think it's time for us to get
a little bit more grounded some real world applications of things,
not that you know, if you super believe in you know,
the men in Black or giants in Afghanistan or stuff
like that, or even like the wooedness of your crazy dreams. Yeah,
(01:44):
they're real, well to you. Yes, you are one hundred
percent correct, they are real to you. But what are
we What are we talking about today, Sarah?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So we're going to talk about the Dermond case. So
Russell and Shirley Durmond were murdered in their home and
it was pretty gruesome and like surprising. So we're going
to get into that. Have you heard of this?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I have not just loved it? Okay, No, no, I
have not, And I'm going to be real honest. I
was kind of one of those that when you talked
about it last week, I told myself that I was
going to be, you know, kind of blissfully ignorant about
this because I really do like not like knowing a
whole lot going into it. I mean, you touched on
it very briefly last week, but yeah, listeners, full transparency.
(02:30):
Before we started recording to day, I text Sarah and said, hey,
what are we talking about again? That's how ignorant I
am to this subject.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So okay, well it's crazy, so let's get into it. First.
I wanted to do a little bit of a bio
for them. So Russell grew up in Hackensack, New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
That's such an awesome city name.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, I've never heard of it before. And he served
in the US Navy during World War Two. Who yeah,
so yeah, and then he and Surely were married on
December fifteenth, nineteen fifty. I don't really know how they met,
but they lived in New Jersey for a while, and
then they ended up moving to Georgia and they had
four children and then they had you know, nine grandchildren
(03:15):
later on.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Crap, Yeah, everybody.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
What happens when you have four kids? Yeah, but yeah,
and then you know, they were they lived kind of
by a lake at first Lake Ocone, which is a
pretty big lake I think. But every year, like their
grandchildren would go there for summer camp and then like
spend time with them down there. And they ended up
(03:40):
owning Windy's and Hardy's franchises in Atlanta like up to
the late nineties.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, so they will go to retire with that. Yeah,
So in nineteen ninety four they purchased property in this
skated community called Great Waters Rent at Lake Oconey, and
it's about twelve miles northeast of Eaton ten.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I guess eat ten, George. Yeah, it's like when you
say edited right.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, Eaton ten.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I don't know, but they ended up retiring, you know,
late nies, and was living there at this point, and
their house was waterfront property. They had a dock right
there as well, and it was on about an acre
of land and it had five and a half bathrooms,
six bedrooms, and it was fifty three hundred square feet only.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Shit.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, yeah, I didn't know it was that big.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Talk about a place to settle down and retire at
my god.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, plenty of room for the nine grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Well that's I was about to say. I guess they
you know, they had to have a place with all
their for all the family events they were going to have.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah. But I did look up the house through like
real estate information and it said the house was built
in nineteen ninety nine. But everything I saw they bought it,
like the property in nineteen ninety four, So I guess
maybe it took that long to build. I'm not really
sure why it's.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I mean, it sounds like a pretty expensive place just
based off the square footage in the amount of rooms,
so it could have been. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, So this murder happened in twenty fourteen, so by
then they were in the late eighties. Yeah, they had
been living there, what twenty years at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so a little crazy. And yeah, I think Russell was
eighty eight and Shirley was eighty seven. So on May third,
(05:38):
they were supposed to show up to a friend's house
in the neighborhood for a Kentucky Derby party and they
would never miss that, and they did. They didn't show up,
so I don't know, Sorry I was distracted, but yeah,
so they didn't end up showing up, so that was
very unusual. And then the next day it was Sunday
(05:59):
and they were big church goers and they didn't show
up to that either. So then now people are concerned, like,
why where are they?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So, yeah, we didn't show up for the party Saturday night,
and we're not coming to repent for our sins on
Saturday night, so right.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, so what's happening? And I feel like they would
tell people if they went out of town, you know
and stuff. So they were supposed to be at the parties.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, living at a gated community for twenty years, they
probably know almost everyone or everyone knows them to some extent,
you know.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, probably, So a couple ended up going to their
house to checking on them on this, so, you know,
a couple days later. Still, so they showed up at
ten am and they saw there were two days worth
of papers on the driveway, like newspapers, which Shirley loves
doing the crossword puzzle, so she wouldn't leave those out
(06:54):
there either. So that was weird. And then they tried
the doorknob and it was unlocked, so they did go
in to you know, investigate look for them. I'm sure
they were thinking like maybe they got sick, maybe they
fell medical emergency.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I mean, they're late eighties, sure, but that's still breaking
and entering.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, but they're concerned it was unlocked. I guess it's entering.
It's not breaking, is it.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I think it still is. I could be wrong. I'm
kind of ignorant.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Probably probably depends on the state too.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Okay, Well, so what they found was Russell's body in
the garage with no head shit. Yeah, but yeah, so
he had been decapitated and he was lying on his
back in a pool of blood, and he was between
the two cars that they owned. So I don't know
(07:48):
how like how big. That doesn't seem like that much space.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Well, they do have a quite a large house. I'm
assuming the garage is probably pretty good size too. It's
not like you know, my garage, Rush would struggle to
fit two cars in.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Well, I think it's a two car garage. It has
just two doors for the garage.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And Shirley was not.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
There at all, so not in the house at all.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
She was not in the house at all. So they
called nine one one, of course, and the police.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
House one does when you find a decapitated person.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Uh yeah, I'm sure that was shocking.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I couldn't imagine, I know.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, So the police came and they looked over the
whole house and it didn't seem like anything had been
taken at all. So except for Russell's head, yep, Well,
so he had like his laptop out, she has jewelry
like literally, nothing was touched or taken and the whole
(08:53):
house like looked immaculate, Like if you just walked through
the house, you wouldn't know that anything had happened. It
was just when you like got to the garage and
saw that he was dead. So that was crazy, as
if I was there, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Well, to be fair to your point, that it would
appear that the motive would be to kill him, because
if nothing is missing, if nothing is in a disarray,
the primary point of going there, whoever the individual was,
was to murder those two.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Individuals, right, That seems like it. Yeah, And I mean
they could not. I mean, his head was nowhere in
the house. They didn't find it anywhere. So these people
had taken his head and there was blood splatter like
on his shirt that indicated he had been shot in
the head first, and then they decapitated him, I guess,
(09:44):
So he was probably already dead, So why even decapitate
him at that point?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Well, people that be doing crazy things'd be taking crazy trophies.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So yeah, that's true. He also had an in injury
on his finger it was like a gash, I guess,
and his hand, and they found some of Shirley's hair
like stuck to the blood on his hand, So it
seemed like there had been some kind.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Of fight, Yeah, a bit of a struggle.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, But then later his finger at least his daughter
said it was an old injury from World War two,
but his hand was still something with his hand was
still injured.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well, I about to say, how how would they say
that his hand was injured If it was an injury
from World War two, it would be a scar. It
wouldn't be like it.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I don't know I would yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Because when I hear police say like corners reports and
stuff like that, where it's like you see injuries, it's
like you're not going to say, oh, well, when he
was nine he broke his leg, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Like, yeah, I'm not really sure. Maybe because there was
just blood and it looked like yeah, maybe it was
like tissue missing, so they didn't know.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
It was old, so there there were no signs of
worst entry at all. So it's also weird and unlocked.
Well yeah, right, so I guess they just walked into
whoever these people were, or they let them in if
they maybe they knew them or something. But so towels
(11:19):
had been wedged in the crack of the garage door,
so that would block like his blood from flowing out
down the driveway. They did that. Police also saw there
was a table lamp that had been moved from the
inside to the garage, like on top of one of
the cars, with the shade removed. Some people think they
needed the light to decapitate him, I guess.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Or to possibly interrogate him to some extent.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah maybe. I mean that's a little weird.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Head.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So I mean, yeah, weird's off the table or whatever.
So the weird is the least of it.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
There was also a round empty space in a pool
of blood in the garage and they're not sure like
what had been there and like taken so like I.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Like a can or something like.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Don't know how big, because I was almost like was
that his head? But no, there'd be more blood and
it wouldn't just be there.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, there wouldn't be like a bare spot, like it'd
have to be like uh yeah, like something's actually sitting
on the ground that had like a lipped edge that
would prevent it from going under something, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Right, Okay, So yeah, I don't know what that was. Well,
they don't know. No one knows what that was. But
something was taken that I guess the killer had brought
themselves because nothing was missing.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
So well, they might have been fans of like Coca
Cola and you know, just needed something refreshing and that's
where they put it down.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, they don't say how big it is. For some reason,
I was thinking it was like a frisbee size, but
but I mean it could be a can side, they
don't say, or paint can who knows. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I should have talked to the police to figure out
how big this.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Call him Sarah.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, So because there was a lack of blood splatter,
the police weren't really sure like Russell had even been
murdered inside the home, Like they're thinking he was murdered
somewhere else and then moved to the garage.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, because I was gonna say, if they believe that
he was shot in the head, depending on where you're shot,
Like if there's enough splatter to be on his shirt,
there would definitely be evidence of where he was shot
in the house, right.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
For sure, And there's nothing. There was also blood on
the bottom of his feet, but there weren't any like
bloody footprints or anything in the house. Either, but there
was a trail of blood like from the garage door
to the spy where he was left, so it indicated
he had been dragged maybe after he was decapitated.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Well, so that's what I was about to ask. There
had to have been if he wasn't killed there, there
had to have been some sort of sign that he
was moved there.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, well just that in the garage. So not sure
how they moved him into the house to the garage.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, okay, so literally just the trail from where he
was dragged in the garage to where he was decapitated.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Okay, yeah, right, Yeah, so that's a little weird. So
the autopsy report said the decapitation had been done in
like one clean cut, but the sheriff said that it
wasn't the skill of a surgeon, and whoever did it
took their time to do it. So it was a
little bit of like conflicting opinions.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Well I don't think I mean, I know, we've seen
like Hollywood movies and stuff like that. It's not that
easy to remove something like that from someone. There's going
to be sallowing, there's gonna be breaking, there's gonna be
like trauma to the surrounding area, like having it, I
would be kind of in disbelief that the corner believed
it was in one clean cut, Like I mean, yeah,
(15:10):
it's not impossible, but I mean they also unless you
had some dude with a fucking guillotine or like a
sword that had enough leverage, or a like big axe
or something, you know what I mean, But then there
would be yeah, strikes, So I.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Don't know, Yeah, yeah, it was a little weird, but
I mean someone strong, I guess maybe. So at that point,
you know, Shirley wasn't in the house, so she's missing,
and some people at first thought that she had killed
Russell because the police hadn't released that he was decapitated,
(15:46):
just that he was dead and she was missing. But
kind of once yeah, you assume that it's the but yeah,
once they said, you know, he was decapitated, then everyone's like,
there's no way she could have done that. I guess
strength wise, I don't know, she's eighty seven.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Well, but I mean, if the sheriff said that it
was someone who took their time and it's not actually
a clean cut.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
You know, right, you can Yeah, I guess maybe she could, so,
but there was also wooded area like around their house,
so other people thought maybe she was able to escape
and was like in like lost in that wooded area. Well,
people started looking.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
For fair But this is off of the timeline we're
looking at right now. So they were supposed to go
to a party on the third. They didn't find them
till the sixth, Right, So assuming it happened on the
third and not before, she'd been out in the woods
for three days, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I know some people, Yeah, they just thought maybe she
was able to escape.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I guess, well, maybe able to escape, but I mean,
you still would be looking for her, you know, Dad,
you wouldn't be She wouldn't be a lot at that point.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah. So the family had postponed Russell's funeral until they
could find Shirley, so they all waited for that.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, And by the fourteenth, the FBI was offering a
twenty thousand dollars reward for any information like leading to
finding Shirley because she was still missing by then.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, so you're looking at almost two weeks of or
like a week and a half of investigating and still
nothing at all. That's wild.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, Like one of they have you know, three sons
and a daughter. So one of their sons had said
that he hoped or it would be better if she
was at peace than to have lived through all of this.
At that point, for sure, it's a little yeah low werd.
He would say that it is weird that she he
(17:55):
would publicly.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
You would you probably, you'd probably even if you thought that,
probably just want to stick to man. I hope we
find my mother.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, yeah, she was already said it in public.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
But keep your listeners, keep your mouse shut if you're
ever in a situation like this, short sweetened to the point.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah. So on May Sin she was found in Lake Aconey,
about six miles away from their house.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Okay, so that's what I was about to ask. I
was assuming the lake, but six miles away from the lake,
that's not what I was. I was thinking. It was
going to be like, you know, she fell off the
dock or something and they found her maybe a little.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Bit, but yeah, yeah, six miles away at a different
like dock down wherever else, six miles away. But a
fisherman had found her floating there. So he called nine
to one one and there was a rope like a
pair of cord tied around her legs, and that was
(18:54):
tied to two red cinder blocks which each weighed thirty pounds,
So like they had just done her. Yeah, so they
had just dumped her in the water and hoped that
she wouldn't like come back up.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I guess, well, yeah, so okay, that makes sense why
they couldn't find her. So they probably dumped her pretty
deep out towards the center and just from you know,
decay and whatnot. Those ropes probably get if they're really
then if it is para cord, it's very very thin
nile on rope. It wouldn't be hard for your foot
(19:32):
to slip out of it after you know, you've been
dead for a week, almost two weeks now, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, yeah, And I did read that that part of
the lake is part of the deepest part, so they
were trying to like just dump her there. And they
found the cause of death was blunt force trauma with
something like a hammer, and she had definitely been killed
before she had been thrown.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Into So that's that's what I was about to say.
I was really hoping that it wasn't one of those
like Nope, we're just gonna keep you alive and drag
you out here and send you on your way. So
at least at least there's a little bit of solace
knowing that she was dead before they disposed of her.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, that's a little weird, Like why did they kill
her totally differently than Rustle? Like if he was shot
and she was hit with a hammer and then she
was thrown in the lake and he was decapitated in
the garage, Like, it's so weird.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Well, without without knowing anything about this, I would assume
the primary target was probably Rustle because it seems very
personal to be able to you know what I mean.
And as far as his wife goes, I think it
was one of those that once you just once you
commit an act like that, I mean, your adrenaline's got
(20:50):
to be going through the roof, you know what I mean. Yeah,
So what's the best way? And obviously the people that
did this knew the area. So what are we going
to do with We can't just leave her here? Well,
it's just hey, I know this spot out you know,
down the road where it's the deepest part. We can
get to it from here, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah that's true. Yeah, So the like the boat ramp
that was by where she was. It's about a twenty
minute drive from their home.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Oh yeah, that's nothing at all.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, but investigators do believe that she was taken there
by boat, like off of their dock.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Okay, yeah, well I was going to say that that
would probably make a little bit more sense because I
feel like there's less ways to track who came from
where from the water, you know what I mean, If
you pulled up in their driveway, one, how did you
get into the gated community?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Somebody saw you get through the gate most likely, right,
you have to have some sort of key code or
card to get in there. And then on top of that,
if you were able to bypass all that stuff without
anybody seeing you or doing whatever, they're gonna know what
kind of at least tires you have based off of
the marks that you. I mean, this is this was
(22:07):
so recent that it's like it's really hard to get
away with something like this, just because every little detail
is one either documented or they can track, like, oh yeah,
this is a good year tire that was bought from uh,
you know, Joe's tire barn on the fifteenth of October
last year. Who bought this boom, you're caught, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's crazy that it's they're
not caught. Still. Yeah, So now that they were both found,
you know, the police were working on finding like the
window of time that this attack would have happened. So
it was confirmed that Russell was seen in public on
the first he was shopping at a public s grocery
(22:46):
store at two twenty six pm, and then before dinner
that night, they talked on the phone with their son Brad,
and then I may, a witness recalled seeing Russell out
on his daily morning walk on like the golf course nearby,
and at four point thirty pm is when their mail's delivered.
And like I said, Shirley loves doing the crassword, and
(23:08):
they had seen that the May second paper Crossword had
been started, so they're probably still alive on the second
and yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's more more than likely it was the third. Then
it actually happened, right.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And they did have an alarm system, which their kids
like thought. You know, they usually locked their doors at
night and set the alarm for night, so it seemed
like nighttime. They were fine into the third and the
party was at four pm. On the third, so it
seemed to happen either early afternoon or morning on the third,
(23:47):
and Russell was found wearing a robe, slippers, stripe shorts
and a T shirt, so you know, he usually wore
his pjs for pretty long during the day and drink
his coffee and had a slow morning, so it was
probably in the morning. Yeah, So it was probably more
in the morning because when they found surely like she
was known to get up earlier, and she was wearing
(24:08):
clothing that she was probably going to wear to the party.
So and their bed was still unmade too, so it
was probably not afternoon, like, it was probably close to morning.
I don't know when they get up or when they
deactivate the alarm or like unlock the doors, but that's
probably when it happened. And the like the Saturday and
Sunday newspapers were left, so they hadn't gotten the Saturday
(24:33):
one yet in time, which I guess that if it
comes later, that would have been during the party maybe.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
But well, and it probably would come later on a Saturday. Yeah,
it's not going to be livered.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
You know, right, So yeah, probably the morning or like
before noon, I would say, But a neighbor did recall
seeing a man in their yard on the third, but
the neighbor was like so far away, I guess like
they couldn't tell if it was Russell or someone else.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So well, I was I was about to say, I
think if I'm imagining where they're living correctly, that it
is probably a relatively spaced out like property. You said
they live on an acre of waterfront property, right.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, yeah, I have a picture if you want.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Well, an acre is not huge, but it's it's big
enough to where if someone I'm assuming there are probably
older people living in this area that seeing that far
away might be challenging, and just seeing a silhouette of
someone you would just assume that it's your neighbor.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah. And it's like I said, they're surrounded by trees too,
so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This community is kind of
weird because the community map, it's like here's a section
of it, and then here's like two more sections that
are like totally like it's around the lake. But it's
like if you want to drive from one section to
the other, you have to like drive around like out
(26:04):
of the community and back in.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
That's weird.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
That's like weird. Yeah, yeah, because I saw, like this
gated community is supposed to have like three or four
gates into it, but the section that the Dermans were
in that there's just one gate like in and out
and like one main road.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Oh okay, so well, and they.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Have posted guards there too.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Well, so that's what I was about to say. It
more so confirms what I was thinking that they did
come from the water then, because if there's you know
what I mean, like you you wouldn't unless it's one
of the neighbors that the guards knew, that wouldn't even
pay any mind, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Right, Yeah, it could be someone from inside the community,
someone who lived there, or it's yeah, they came from
the water. I think those are the two big ones.
But yeah, the community, because I looked it up for
like currently now, I guess it says the population is
three hundred two. I don't know if that is how
it was, you know, ten years ago or whatever.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
But well, I'm sure it's probably relatively close about the same.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, and I was thinking it was like a retirement community.
But it says that the ages range from twenty five
to sixty four. Okay, so they were like eighties, So
I don't.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Know how well it's more of it's probably just a
very upscale, private neighborhood. Yeah, I think that's really what
I'm getting out of this.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah. So there were younger people there that could have,
I don't know, had a motive maybe or something, because
I feel.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Like that franchise money man maybe.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Yeah, but everyone said the Dermans were really well liked
and they lived a quiet life there, like there there's
not really a motive of like someone within the community like, oh,
they always beefed with this person, Like there's none of that.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah. See, well that's the thing I was going to say.
I don't know, I could probably count on like one hand,
like someone that's retired that is in a shitty mood
all the time, you know what I mean, Like most
people that are of that age and are done working,
Like they're not mean people. They just, like you said,
they want to wake up, sit and hang out for
(28:17):
a little bit, go to some parties, and then call
it good. You know. They're not trying to get anybody's business,
ruffle any feathers. So that makes sense, right.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, So it's a little weird, like where's the motive?
I also thought, because it said they had a wooded area,
and so I was thinking, could someone come through the
woods like outside of the community, looking at like where
they lived on the map, Like, that's not really a possibility.
So I don't know, if you want to see the map.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, let's look at it. I like looking at maths.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Okay, all right, let's share my street every time I
want the window this one. Okay, sure you see it. Okay, Yeah,
this is their area. So they're just like kind of
a peninsula and it's just that one road, main road
in but they were living kind of over here at
(29:10):
the time. Okay, they're more surrounded by water.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, So listeners that might not be watching this, you
should head over to YouTube and check out this awesome
content that Sarah's provided. But what it looks like is
this community, it has like two or three peninsulas off
to the what would that be north west of it
where you could access the lake, you know what I mean?
(29:37):
So that that even gives me more of a thought,
like it would be too easy to hop over from
one of those, go across the lake and get whever
you need to get, you know what I mean. You
wouldn't have to use that main road because that road
is ridiculously long that you'd have to get it is
that's the only way in or out if I had
(29:58):
if I was planning anything saying to get into that
sort of area, the road would be the emergency way
to go.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, the water's just so accessible,
and they were waterfront. I was thinking, you know, if
they were on the south side, there is a lot
of trees there and I think you could go in
outside of the community, But they weren't down there. They're
more on the north side.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah. I mean, but regardless, like listeners, you got you
got stuff off to the northwest, you got stuff off
to the southeast, and I'm sure if you zoom this out,
you probably have stuff off to the northeast as well
where you could easily access this.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
So yeah, yeah, so I think it was by the water,
but but I mean, they don't know, they can't say.
But the fact that they weren't.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Seen at the gate, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Unless it was someone who lived there. But also apparently
at that time the cameras at the gates were not
working because it convenient.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Why is it every damn time there's anything that happens,
these fucking cameras don't work.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
I don't know it was a recent electrical issue, like
in the whole area.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Huh yeah, but you always can hear.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
So they could have come through the gate and they
wouldn't have been caught on camera.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
They could have, they could have, they would have still
been seen by the guard. They would have been or
cameras aren't working, guard's sleeping. There you go, that's the
answer to that. Man. Absolutely, I hate it whenever I
find out something super duper interesting and then I hear
dumb shit like that, where oh yeah, well the cameras
weren't working today. It's like of all days, of all
(31:37):
the days, this is not one man.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, the cameras had stopped working on April twenty eighth,
so it was less than a week before. So that's crazy.
But you know, how many people really knew that, Like
the if they did come through the gate, like they
had have been really lucky, like they wouldn't have known
the cameras weren't working, or maybe they didn't know cameras
were there.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
But while well, that's true, that's fair. I don't think
you would pay attention to the cameras anyway. You would
either know they're there, or you wouldn't know they're there,
But I still stand by, like, knowing there's only one
way in or out of there, that's not the best
way to go.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yeah, the water you can go literally anywhere.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, I don't know. The sheriff has said he thought
a car would be involved, but then they definitely think
Shirley was dumped by a boat. So it's like, why
not just arrived by boat? Then, like why is he
thinking there was a car? But you know, he doesn't
really know. It could be either or both or whatever.
And it could be multiple people or one or someone
(32:42):
could have driven and someone could add a boat.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Well, based off of the grizzly nature of it, I
would bet it was not one person, right, I mean yeah,
And it wouldn't be easy to do all of that
by yourself.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, and it could explain why maybe they were killed
differently and stuff too, right. Yeah, Yeah, I guess I
should have kept sharing my screen. I want to share
one thing about the lake. This lake is massive, I
mean it just it just supports your theory. This is
(33:20):
the map of the lake Holy fuck. And it connects
to the Aconi National Forest at the north and then
it can go all the way down and then like
that little red circle is where they were living. Yeah,
but it could be literally like anywhere.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah, listeners, this lake is is big. We'll have some
stuff on social media, I'm sure to, you know, showing
some stuff like this. But yeah, that that is massive.
What what is the Is there a scale or legend
for this barny chance.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Adept to zoom in a lot. The legend it might
be blurry.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Because it is such a big That's fine, it's big
as ship. There we go.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Where does scale is one to forty thousand?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Okay? So no, okay, no, no, no, So the grid
is the grid's good? Now, So those are usually those
grids that are in there are usually about one thousand
square meters.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
So yeah, you're you're looking at a massive, massive yeah
access point. Yeah yeah, so you're you're looking at what
twenty one yeah, twenty one thousand, yeah, twenty one thousand
square meters.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Right from top to bottom.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, and just that it connects to the National Forest too,
and there's a couple obviously different towns and everything, so there's.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
A bunch of offshoots going everywhere. So I mean, yeah,
it could be from I highly doubt they would be
coming all the way from the National Forest.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
But oh yeah, there's plenty of access points. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was thinking because there was another lake below it,
but there's a dam, so you can't really connect there
because I was thinking like it was even bigger.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I bet you could because the cameras aren't working.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Well, you can't really drive a bunch just that'd be fun,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
So you could drive it. You can drive it one
way over a dam. Yeah, usually hard to come back
the next the other way, but you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
They probably had a different escape plan. Okay, so here's
just kind of the theories okay of who did this.
So first one is this was just random. Their door
was unlocked. Someone was just driving by on their boat
and killed them.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Fuck no, right, no, there is no way that someone
was just cruising on this lake and being like, you
know what I feel like doing today cutting somebody's set off.
Let's find a random house Nope, and.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
A broad daylight like yeah yeah, no, yeah, okay. And
so another theory is that it was a robbery gun wrong,
I could buy that, but they didn't take anything well
exuch as head.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Is that worth anything to get that knowledge? Man? Anyway? No, like,
in all honesty, like if it was I could see
it only because if you had, like I don't know,
two or three guys and one of them accidentally, like
you know, like you said that she was bludgeoned to death, right,
one of them accidentally hits her on the head too hard,
(36:34):
she falls over, They see she's dead, everybody freaks out,
you know what I mean, Like it doesn't quite explain
the decapitation part because that feels real personal, and I
don't think you would just do that if it was
just a random guy, you.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Know, yeah, you'd want to get out of there.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
But that would explain the time. Yeah, that would explain
why nothing was taken. It could have just been like, hey,
we're going to go rob these old people, but oops,
we hit her too hard. Now what do we do?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And then they shoot him?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Or maybe you had somebody that was trigger happy, you
know what I mean. I don't know that. I don't
buy it, but that's that's just how I would try
to justify it in my mind. I suppose hmmm, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Mean, since they were killed, I guess if you're bludgeoned,
I would assume there's still blood splatter, Like they didn't
find any blood, so it would.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Have necessarily really yeah, if you if you hit somebody
with a blunt object super hard in the head, you
could kill him without any any like like splatter from
you know, they're a wound on their head.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
So because Russell at least would have had to be
shot like outside or something for sure, since there was
nothing inside. But I don't know, I was thinking, like
if they accidentally kill someone, well the decapitation you're not
gonna do if you're freaked out and you just accidentally
killed someone. But I still feel like you'd grab something
(38:00):
on your way out.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
It might be if it was like a robbery gone wrong.
I don't think you would, because you there's probably at
least one person that had the voice of reason, like, dude,
we have got to go, you know what I mean.
But then it wouldn't like it wouldn't be as like
kept as the house was either, you know what I mean,
Like there would have been a struggle, right.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, you would have seen something and they wouldn't have
put towels in the garage to.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Suck up the Yeah, there's too much. There's too much
like preplanned stuff and then like the lamp, yeah, the garage.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Like yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's weird. Okay. So the
other theory is that it was a personal attack from
someone they knew and maybe someone who lived in the neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I think it was probably somebody they knew for sure.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, I think that. I don't know if someone living there.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
I don't think it would be somebody living there, because
there'd be I feel like there would be more evidence
of their presence if that was the case, you know
what I mean. And as far as like them getting
in the house, I don't feel like it would be
that big of a deal because everything's unlocked. You said,
it most likely happened in the morning, so they probably
weren't worried about, yeah, having any sort of security or
(39:16):
anything going on. They woke up, made their coffee, went outside,
sat on their back porch or something, and had all
the stuff off.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
So yeah, yeah, they probably did turn off the alarms
and had everything unlocked so they were able to come in.
But yeah, just the because of the head beheading, I
guess this seems very personal, like you sort of think.
So it seems like at least someone who knew them,
even if they didn't know the person or people.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, there's no way that this was random at all.
There was definitely some sort of personal connection for sure.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah. So with it being someone they knew, someone thought
maybe it was a disgruntled to employee or former employee
from one of their franchises. Okay, but it's like it
had been so long though, Well they.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Retired, true, I mean you're they they retired at that house, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Well they built that house for their retirement.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, so when they started living there, like they weren't
working anymore, correct, Yeah, So, well that that doesn't make
any sense. So it's like twenty years unless you got
some madman working at Wendy's that is just waiting twenty
years to exact his revenge, you know what I mean.
I don't Yeah, I don't buy that. I don't, man,
(40:38):
I don't like the way their son said that.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah. I don't know which son it was either though.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I trying to figure that out.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
But you know, I hope my mom, So why did
you say some of the effect of isn't around so
she can find PEP.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I hope she's at peace and didn't have to live
through this or something like that.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah, that's weird, man.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
They didn't have to go through this. Yeah, yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Is I don't like that. I don't like that at all. Okay,
that could be. That could be. I mean, I hate
to say it, but it happens all the time where
you know, well off parents are killed by their kids,
you know.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, yeah, that is one of the theories that we'll
get to. Well, that's the last theory that I'll have.
But but the disgruntled employee thing, I guess very shortly
after this murder, there was another very similar murder in
New York because of some of lady's like an employee
(41:38):
at her franchise killed her and her husband like very
similar like where they were an older lady and someone
had done that. So I think that's where this theory
comes from. That's maybe the same idea.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
But Sarah, there are disgruntled employees everywhere that work for
franchises that I promise, I don't that sound like, what
is there a network of serial killers through these franchised
companies that they just I think.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
People were just like grasping because it happened like very
soon after this, so it was just weird to people.
And they just grasp onto it. But someone said, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
No, I'm sorry. I mean, this happened in Georgia. Then
what are you doing driving all the way up to
fucking New York to go do the same thing like that?
Just go over to fucking North Carolina or Alabama or
fucking Tennessee, you know what I mean? Like, why why
are you going all the way to New York?
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Maybe he worked for both of them, maybe, I don't know. Yeah,
that's a little crazy. Yeah, someone said it was mistaken identity,
there was they wanted to kill someone else.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
It took us head to make sure.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Oh, people are saying because he was shot, maybe they
just wanted to take out the bullet case or whatever
the what they can't trace it back to the gun.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
And they ended up killing Shirley because she was a
witness to their mess up of killing Russell an accident.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah, we can move on from that.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Well, okay, first of all, anybody that might not know, like,
if you're going to shoot somebody in the head, the
intent is obviously to kill them. If you were that
worried about like, oh shit, I don't want my bullet
to be traced back, you wouldn't have fucking shot them
in the head.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Right, Yeah. So yeah, the last theory is that this
was a hired hit, kind of like what we talked
about with the what was her good Wins?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yeah, a Victoria or good Men.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, so you know, they think it was someone who
either had a grudge or it was one of their
children to inherit sooner. I don't know. People say they're
home at that time was valued at a million dollars,
but like it wasn't because I looked at the real
estate history for the house and it was listed in
(44:06):
November twenty fourteen, seven hundred and sixty nine thousand. Maybe
it was worth more, and then you know they died
in it, so that brings it down.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah. Well, well, to be fair, they did own two franchises,
so they obviously were doing well, regardless they had other
Yeah yeah, regardless of the value of the home's that's
just part of their total estate that I'm sure that
they were going to pass on to their kids. Yeah,
(44:35):
so the hired hit thing kind of makes sense. But
that's why the head though, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, Yeah, it's very weird because.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
If it's a hired hit and you're hiring somebody to
kill someone, one, that's really fucked up. Two, if part
of the hit is I need evidence of you doing this,
I want you to bring their head back to me,
and you bring and they bring you the head back. Yeah,
some sick ass fucking shit.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
I mean that's like movies and like right Cartel side.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, Yeah, it's really weird. Not that there aren't crazy
fucking people that will do that, because there are definitely
people in the world that will do that. But if
it was a hired hit for you to ask for
something like that, that's insane.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, And again like why just for Russell, wouldn't you
want to see like Shirley also was dead.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Well, I don't know, man, because I feel like whatever
the motive was, it had to have been all towards
Russell because there wasn't anything besides a blunt force blow
to the head like on surely like it, right, it
obviously like like the whole like scared, intimidated or interviewed,
(45:52):
whatever you want to call it. Something happened in the garage.
That's why the lamp was there, That's why you know
all that stuff happened. Yeah, So I feel like it
was way more personal towards Russell and surely just happened
to be the bystander that was in the middle of it.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yeah, And some people said it wasn't didn't seem super professional,
because then she would have been, you know, weighed down
more like she wouldn't have come up so soon in
the lake because they would know how to make sure
she's stayed submerged or whatever. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
That's that's that's fair. But at the same time, like
disposing of a body and water like, it's gonna bloat,
it's gonna decay faster, it's gonna like you're you're playing
a risky game. I feel like when you do that,
just because the likelihood of it coming up is relatively high,
just from the buoyant force of your body.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Right, But why not take her farther away then? Since
that lake's massive.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Well, they were six miles away, so maybe they thought
it was far enough way, you know, or it could
have been maybe, Yeah, depending on how like what what
wind currents look like there, Maybe she did drift a
little bit from the original spot.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Yeah, that's true. Well, okay, so their children at the time,
though they seem to all be financially well off. So
I mean, I know people could always want more money,
but it didn't seem like the motive is there still, right.
So they did have four kids, but one had been
(47:27):
killed in two thousand, which was the oldest son, Mark,
so a lot of people think his death connects to theirs.
Oh so he so he was shot three times on
his forty seventh birthday in Atlanta on August thirtieth, two thousand,
and he was there to purchase crack cocaine and at
the time, the drug dealer tried to rob him, so
(47:49):
that's how he got shot. And a friend was also
there who was shot in the leg but survived. And
like since his friend was there, they were able to
find who did it and put them in jail. But
some people think that drug dealer was part of a
bigger gang and they were wonn in revenge. But again
it's like fourteen years later, so it doesn't that seems
(48:13):
like a long time still, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
That delation. Yeah, well, you know, I mean you got
to think, how busy are those guys that are, you know,
selling on the streets. You know, they got other things
to do. They had to make some money before you know, I.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Guess, yeah, yeah, and that was I mean, they're a
little bit past Atlanta and stuff, so not the exact
same area.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
But I don't know if that would make sense though,
because I mean, a drug deal gone wrong and you're
blaming the father like that. That seems weird, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah, right, And I mean the son's forty seven, so.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Why why would you even worry about what happened to
his dad like you would? I don't know, that doesn't Yeah,
that doesn't sound right.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah. So they're their sons, Brad and Keith. They both
lived in Florida at the time, and they owned Ramsey Development,
which operated fast food restaurants. They're kind of, you know,
doing the same thing their parents did.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Their firm employed seven hundred people and generated more than
fourteen million dollars in revenue per year when this happened.
So yeah, yeah, And they also had previously owned Derman
Food Services, which they had disbanded in two thousand and
one with like no debt outstanding. So it's like, yeah,
(49:40):
but their daughter, Leslie, she lived in North Carolina at
the time, and like I could not find anything about her,
and she like does not say anything like ever first
stuff I could find. Yeah, so that's a little weird,
but I don't know. I literally couldn't find what she
did or if she was making money or had any debts,
(50:03):
ort of like nothing.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
That's very strange. Yeah, that's that's really weird because okay,
like the one that was killed by the drug dealer, Okay,
that makes sense. The other ones that like, you can
find any information you probably want to on them, and
then nothing on her.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
No, I couldn't find anything. It took me like forty
minutes to even find her.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Name what because it.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Just kept saying like if they wouldn't say the name
and anything.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
That's wild. That's a big red flag.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
So if I was a batman, that would be my bed. Yeah,
it seems really odd.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, Like it was weird that because all these newspapers,
you know, dug into what the guys did and if
they had any outstanding deads and I couldn't find anything
about her.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah that's weird.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah. They did all pass polygraph tests though.
Speaker 4 (50:59):
But yeah, you can fake that, Yeah, especially if you're
a psychopath, which clearly whoever did this is oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Yeah. So in twenty twenty three, there was new DNA
found off of Russell's shirt, which I would assume they
referenced with the kids, and it doesn't match, I would assume, well.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
If the cameras weren't working.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Yeah, but the police are also using cell phone data
like with geo fencing to try and narrow down people.
Then I don't know, is that newer? Like, I don't
think that's that new. Why didn't they do it before? Now?
Speaker 2 (51:43):
I don't. I don't know. I don't think it is
like super new, but I don't think it's anything that
was ever really, I could be wrong. I think since
the advent of you know, towers and cell phones and
stuff like that, that's part of what they do to
find people in these sorts of things. So I don't
I don't think it's like a I don't think it's
like a super new thing. But I'm sure they've been
(52:05):
doing it since the mid two thousands. I can almost
guarantee that to.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Some degree, right, Yeah. I mean the only time I've
heard about it was when I was having issues in
twenty twenty two, I guess, or whatever, Right, So I
guess that's close to maybe that is more people could
use it at that point or something versus like twenty fourteen.
Yeah maybe, but yeah, there's no new information from those
(52:34):
two things. So but it is still an open investigation,
and they have raised the reward to twenty five thousand
dollars for any information that could lead to an arrest
or does lead to an arrest. I guess. So the
fbuy's offering twenty thousand and the Putnam County Sheriff's Office
is adding five thousand.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
So well, that's wild, man. I don't know, like you
never I'm sure it happens all the time, but you
don't hear about people getting away with shit like that anymore.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Yeah, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, it's crazy.
I mean it was only ten years ago or eleven
years ago.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
But well still, I mean that it sounds like because
I mean, you know, back in the day, if there
was a murder that happened, like you would, you know,
maybe cut off their head or cut off their hands
so you couldn't identify them, so nobody knew because you
didn't have fingerprints or you couldn't see their face anymore obviously,
So it's like, well, we just have a body, we
don't know who it belongs to, you know, So that
was one of the easiest ways to get away with it.
(53:35):
And I'm talking like way back, I'm not talking you know,
twenty years ago, you know, but I don't know, extremely personal.
I don't like that you can't find anything on the
daughter at all.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
I feel like I feel like it was either someone
they know or it was some sort of hit for sure.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yeah, yeah, I think so too. Yeah, the daughter's suspicions,
to me, that seems weird. I'm also not sure what
order she's in, like if she's.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
The youngest, you know whatever.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
But yeah, I feel like with the two sons, like
going with the parent, what the parents did, and then
the other son died, then I feel like she was
like overlooked. Maybe ors that's.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
A good That's kind of what I was thinking. You
have all the success stories about the other two sons,
and you know, here she is, so could be a
little bit of animosity, but who knows.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
Maybe. So, Yeah, that's weird. But hopefully they find something
with that DNA, that new DNA.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
Yeah, well hopefully if they do, we'll have to do
a follow up for sure.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah, so actually, you know what we're gonna have to,
Like there's a few that we've done that, we're gonna
probably have to do some follow ups on here, new
information and stuff like that. Maybe we'll just do like
a grap bag episode of like all the follow ups
and like do like little ten fifteen minute segments or whatever.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Yeah, it would be good. So yeah, all.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Right, well listeners, if that a little grab bag thing
sounds awesome, let us know in the comments, send us
an email at Paranoid Perspective Podcast at gmail dot com
let us know if that's something you would be interested in.
But hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you guys
do have any information, we'll have links down below where
you can report anything like that. Check us out wherever
you're listening to this, make sure you give us a
review if you can do that, like the podcast, any
(55:25):
piece of media that you're seeing, like comment, share all
that good stuff. Check out our patreon Patreon dot com,
forward slash the Paranoid Perspective Podcast and have some extra
perks over there for you.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
And as always, remember just because you're paranoid doesn't mean
they're not watching. See you next time on the Paranoid
Perspective and at
Hey everyone, exciting news. We've officially launched The Paranoid Perspective Patreon.
If you love what we do unpacking conspiracies, chasing mysteries,
and laughing through the weirdness, now you can support the
show and get more of it.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
So for as little as five dollars a month, you
will get exclusive access in extra perks to the episode. Sarah,
what do we get with tier one?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So Tier one is the Curious Minds and you get
a shout out at the end of every episode.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Next tier this is what you guys really probably want.
Ad free episodes. We don't need those pesky ads that
you guys are getting on Spotify, Apple, whatever else. You
will get all episodes add free along with what else, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
You also get it ahead of time, so before the
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to watch or listen.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So if you guys are interested, check in the show
notes down below, or you can head to patreon dot
com Forward Slash the Paranoid Perspective podcast. Welcome back to
(01:18):
The Paranoid Perspective.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I am Jake and I'm Sarah.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So we've been talking about some out there stuff here lately.
Sarah so I think it's time for us to get
a little bit more grounded some real world applications of things,
not that you know, if you super believe in you know,
the men in Black or giants in Afghanistan or stuff
like that, or even like the wooedness of your crazy dreams. Yeah,
(01:44):
they're real, well to you. Yes, you are one hundred
percent correct, they are real to you. But what are
we What are we talking about today, Sarah?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So we're going to talk about the Dermond case. So
Russell and Shirley Durmond were murdered in their home and
it was pretty gruesome and like surprising. So we're going
to get into that. Have you heard of this?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I have not just loved it? Okay, No, no, I
have not, And I'm going to be real honest. I
was kind of one of those that when you talked
about it last week, I told myself that I was
going to be, you know, kind of blissfully ignorant about
this because I really do like not like knowing a
whole lot going into it. I mean, you touched on
it very briefly last week, but yeah, listeners, full transparency.
(02:30):
Before we started recording to day, I text Sarah and said, hey,
what are we talking about again? That's how ignorant I
am to this subject.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So okay, well it's crazy, so let's get into it. First.
I wanted to do a little bit of a bio
for them. So Russell grew up in Hackensack, New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
That's such an awesome city name.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, I've never heard of it before. And he served
in the US Navy during World War Two. Who yeah,
so yeah, and then he and Surely were married on
December fifteenth, nineteen fifty. I don't really know how they met,
but they lived in New Jersey for a while, and
then they ended up moving to Georgia and they had
four children and then they had you know, nine grandchildren
(03:15):
later on.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Crap, Yeah, everybody.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
What happens when you have four kids? Yeah, but yeah,
and then you know, they were they lived kind of
by a lake at first Lake Ocone, which is a
pretty big lake I think. But every year, like their
grandchildren would go there for summer camp and then like
spend time with them down there. And they ended up
(03:40):
owning Windy's and Hardy's franchises in Atlanta like up to
the late nineties.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, so they will go to retire with that. Yeah,
So in nineteen ninety four they purchased property in this
skated community called Great Waters Rent at Lake Oconey, and
it's about twelve miles northeast of Eaton ten.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I guess eat ten, George. Yeah, it's like when you
say edited right.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, Eaton ten.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I don't know, but they ended up retiring, you know,
late nies, and was living there at this point, and
their house was waterfront property. They had a dock right
there as well, and it was on about an acre
of land and it had five and a half bathrooms,
six bedrooms, and it was fifty three hundred square feet only.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Shit.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, yeah, I didn't know it was that big.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Talk about a place to settle down and retire at
my god.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, plenty of room for the nine grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Well that's I was about to say. I guess they
you know, they had to have a place with all
their for all the family events they were going to have.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah. But I did look up the house through like
real estate information and it said the house was built
in nineteen ninety nine. But everything I saw they bought it,
like the property in nineteen ninety four, So I guess
maybe it took that long to build. I'm not really
sure why it's.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I mean, it sounds like a pretty expensive place just
based off the square footage in the amount of rooms,
so it could have been. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, So this murder happened in twenty fourteen, so by
then they were in the late eighties. Yeah, they had
been living there, what twenty years at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so a little crazy. And yeah, I think Russell was
eighty eight and Shirley was eighty seven. So on May third,
(05:38):
they were supposed to show up to a friend's house
in the neighborhood for a Kentucky Derby party and they
would never miss that, and they did. They didn't show up,
so I don't know, Sorry I was distracted, but yeah,
so they didn't end up showing up, so that was
very unusual. And then the next day it was Sunday
(05:59):
and they were big church goers and they didn't show
up to that either. So then now people are concerned, like,
why where are they?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So, yeah, we didn't show up for the party Saturday night,
and we're not coming to repent for our sins on
Saturday night, so right.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, so what's happening? And I feel like they would
tell people if they went out of town, you know
and stuff. So they were supposed to be at the parties.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, living at a gated community for twenty years, they
probably know almost everyone or everyone knows them to some extent,
you know.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, probably, So a couple ended up going to their
house to checking on them on this, so, you know,
a couple days later. Still, so they showed up at
ten am and they saw there were two days worth
of papers on the driveway, like newspapers, which Shirley loves
doing the crossword puzzle, so she wouldn't leave those out
(06:54):
there either. So that was weird. And then they tried
the doorknob and it was unlocked, so they did go
in to you know, investigate look for them. I'm sure
they were thinking like maybe they got sick, maybe they
fell medical emergency.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I mean, they're late eighties, sure, but that's still breaking
and entering.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, but they're concerned it was unlocked. I guess it's entering.
It's not breaking, is it.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I think it still is. I could be wrong. I'm
kind of ignorant.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Probably probably depends on the state too.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Okay, Well, so what they found was Russell's body in
the garage with no head shit. Yeah, but yeah, so
he had been decapitated and he was lying on his
back in a pool of blood, and he was between
the two cars that they owned. So I don't know
(07:48):
how like how big. That doesn't seem like that much space.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Well, they do have a quite a large house. I'm
assuming the garage is probably pretty good size too. It's
not like you know, my garage, Rush would struggle to
fit two cars in.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Well, I think it's a two car garage. It has
just two doors for the garage.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And Shirley was not.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
There at all, so not in the house at all.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
She was not in the house at all. So they
called nine one one, of course, and the police.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
House one does when you find a decapitated person.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Uh yeah, I'm sure that was shocking.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I couldn't imagine, I know.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, So the police came and they looked over the
whole house and it didn't seem like anything had been
taken at all. So except for Russell's head, yep, Well,
so he had like his laptop out, she has jewelry
like literally, nothing was touched or taken and the whole
(08:53):
house like looked immaculate, Like if you just walked through
the house, you wouldn't know that anything had happened. It
was just when you like got to the garage and
saw that he was dead. So that was crazy, as
if I was there, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Well, to be fair to your point, that it would
appear that the motive would be to kill him, because
if nothing is missing, if nothing is in a disarray,
the primary point of going there, whoever the individual was,
was to murder those two.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Individuals, right, That seems like it. Yeah, And I mean
they could not. I mean, his head was nowhere in
the house. They didn't find it anywhere. So these people
had taken his head and there was blood splatter like
on his shirt that indicated he had been shot in
the head first, and then they decapitated him, I guess,
(09:44):
So he was probably already dead, So why even decapitate
him at that point?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Well, people that be doing crazy things'd be taking crazy trophies.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So yeah, that's true. He also had an in injury
on his finger it was like a gash, I guess,
and his hand, and they found some of Shirley's hair
like stuck to the blood on his hand, So it
seemed like there had been some kind.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Of fight, Yeah, a bit of a struggle.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, But then later his finger at least his daughter
said it was an old injury from World War two,
but his hand was still something with his hand was
still injured.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well, I about to say, how how would they say
that his hand was injured If it was an injury
from World War two, it would be a scar. It
wouldn't be like it.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I don't know I would yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Because when I hear police say like corners reports and
stuff like that, where it's like you see injuries, it's
like you're not going to say, oh, well, when he
was nine he broke his leg, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Like, yeah, I'm not really sure. Maybe because there was
just blood and it looked like yeah, maybe it was
like tissue missing, so they didn't know.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
It was old, so there there were no signs of
worst entry at all. So it's also weird and unlocked.
Well yeah, right, so I guess they just walked into
whoever these people were, or they let them in if
they maybe they knew them or something. But so towels
(11:19):
had been wedged in the crack of the garage door,
so that would block like his blood from flowing out
down the driveway. They did that. Police also saw there
was a table lamp that had been moved from the
inside to the garage, like on top of one of
the cars, with the shade removed. Some people think they
needed the light to decapitate him, I guess.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Or to possibly interrogate him to some extent.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah maybe. I mean that's a little weird.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Head.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So I mean, yeah, weird's off the table or whatever.
So the weird is the least of it.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
There was also a round empty space in a pool
of blood in the garage and they're not sure like
what had been there and like taken so like I.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Like a can or something like.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Don't know how big, because I was almost like was
that his head? But no, there'd be more blood and
it wouldn't just be there.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, there wouldn't be like a bare spot, like it'd
have to be like uh yeah, like something's actually sitting
on the ground that had like a lipped edge that
would prevent it from going under something, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Right, Okay, So yeah, I don't know what that was. Well,
they don't know. No one knows what that was. But
something was taken that I guess the killer had brought
themselves because nothing was missing.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
So well, they might have been fans of like Coca
Cola and you know, just needed something refreshing and that's
where they put it down.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, they don't say how big it is. For some reason,
I was thinking it was like a frisbee size, but
but I mean it could be a can side, they
don't say, or paint can who knows. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I should have talked to the police to figure out
how big this.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Call him Sarah.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, So because there was a lack of blood splatter,
the police weren't really sure like Russell had even been
murdered inside the home, Like they're thinking he was murdered
somewhere else and then moved to the garage.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, because I was gonna say, if they believe that
he was shot in the head, depending on where you're shot,
Like if there's enough splatter to be on his shirt,
there would definitely be evidence of where he was shot
in the house, right.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
For sure, And there's nothing. There was also blood on
the bottom of his feet, but there weren't any like
bloody footprints or anything in the house. Either, but there
was a trail of blood like from the garage door
to the spy where he was left, so it indicated
he had been dragged maybe after he was decapitated.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Well, so that's what I was about to ask. There
had to have been if he wasn't killed there, there
had to have been some sort of sign that he
was moved there.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, well just that in the garage. So not sure
how they moved him into the house to the garage.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, okay, so literally just the trail from where he
was dragged in the garage to where he was decapitated.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Okay, yeah, right, Yeah, so that's a little weird. So
the autopsy report said the decapitation had been done in
like one clean cut, but the sheriff said that it
wasn't the skill of a surgeon, and whoever did it
took their time to do it. So it was a
little bit of like conflicting opinions.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Well I don't think I mean, I know, we've seen
like Hollywood movies and stuff like that. It's not that
easy to remove something like that from someone. There's going
to be sallowing, there's gonna be breaking, there's gonna be
like trauma to the surrounding area, like having it, I
would be kind of in disbelief that the corner believed
it was in one clean cut, Like I mean, yeah,
(15:10):
it's not impossible, but I mean they also unless you
had some dude with a fucking guillotine or like a
sword that had enough leverage, or a like big axe
or something, you know what I mean, But then there
would be yeah, strikes, So I.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Don't know, Yeah, yeah, it was a little weird, but
I mean someone strong, I guess maybe. So at that point,
you know, Shirley wasn't in the house, so she's missing,
and some people at first thought that she had killed
Russell because the police hadn't released that he was decapitated,
(15:46):
just that he was dead and she was missing. But
kind of once yeah, you assume that it's the but yeah,
once they said, you know, he was decapitated, then everyone's like,
there's no way she could have done that. I guess
strength wise, I don't know, she's eighty seven.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Well, but I mean, if the sheriff said that it
was someone who took their time and it's not actually
a clean cut.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
You know, right, you can Yeah, I guess maybe she could, so,
but there was also wooded area like around their house,
so other people thought maybe she was able to escape
and was like in like lost in that wooded area. Well,
people started looking.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
For fair But this is off of the timeline we're
looking at right now. So they were supposed to go
to a party on the third. They didn't find them
till the sixth, Right, So assuming it happened on the
third and not before, she'd been out in the woods
for three days, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I know some people, Yeah, they just thought maybe she
was able to escape.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I guess, well, maybe able to escape, but I mean,
you still would be looking for her, you know, Dad,
you wouldn't be She wouldn't be a lot at that point.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah. So the family had postponed Russell's funeral until they
could find Shirley, so they all waited for that.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, And by the fourteenth, the FBI was offering a
twenty thousand dollars reward for any information like leading to
finding Shirley because she was still missing by then.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, so you're looking at almost two weeks of or
like a week and a half of investigating and still
nothing at all. That's wild.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, Like one of they have you know, three sons
and a daughter. So one of their sons had said
that he hoped or it would be better if she
was at peace than to have lived through all of this.
At that point, for sure, it's a little yeah low werd.
He would say that it is weird that she he
(17:55):
would publicly.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
You would you probably, you'd probably even if you thought that,
probably just want to stick to man. I hope we
find my mother.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, yeah, she was already said it in public.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
But keep your listeners, keep your mouse shut if you're
ever in a situation like this, short sweetened to the point.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah. So on May Sin she was found in Lake Aconey,
about six miles away from their house.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Okay, so that's what I was about to ask. I
was assuming the lake, but six miles away from the lake,
that's not what I was. I was thinking. It was
going to be like, you know, she fell off the
dock or something and they found her maybe a little.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Bit, but yeah, yeah, six miles away at a different
like dock down wherever else, six miles away. But a
fisherman had found her floating there. So he called nine
to one one and there was a rope like a
pair of cord tied around her legs, and that was
(18:54):
tied to two red cinder blocks which each weighed thirty pounds,
So like they had just done her. Yeah, so they
had just dumped her in the water and hoped that
she wouldn't like come back up.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I guess, well, yeah, so okay, that makes sense why
they couldn't find her. So they probably dumped her pretty
deep out towards the center and just from you know,
decay and whatnot. Those ropes probably get if they're really
then if it is para cord, it's very very thin
nile on rope. It wouldn't be hard for your foot
(19:32):
to slip out of it after you know, you've been
dead for a week, almost two weeks now, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, yeah, And I did read that that part of
the lake is part of the deepest part, so they
were trying to like just dump her there. And they
found the cause of death was blunt force trauma with
something like a hammer, and she had definitely been killed
before she had been thrown.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Into So that's that's what I was about to say.
I was really hoping that it wasn't one of those
like Nope, we're just gonna keep you alive and drag
you out here and send you on your way. So
at least at least there's a little bit of solace
knowing that she was dead before they disposed of her.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, that's a little weird, Like why did they kill
her totally differently than Rustle? Like if he was shot
and she was hit with a hammer and then she
was thrown in the lake and he was decapitated in
the garage, Like, it's so weird.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Well, without without knowing anything about this, I would assume
the primary target was probably Rustle because it seems very
personal to be able to you know what I mean.
And as far as his wife goes, I think it
was one of those that once you just once you
commit an act like that, I mean, your adrenaline's got
(20:50):
to be going through the roof, you know what I mean. Yeah,
So what's the best way? And obviously the people that
did this knew the area. So what are we going
to do with We can't just leave her here? Well,
it's just hey, I know this spot out you know,
down the road where it's the deepest part. We can
get to it from here, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah that's true. Yeah, So the like the boat ramp
that was by where she was. It's about a twenty
minute drive from their home.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Oh yeah, that's nothing at all.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, but investigators do believe that she was taken there
by boat, like off of their dock.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Okay, yeah, well I was going to say that that
would probably make a little bit more sense because I
feel like there's less ways to track who came from
where from the water, you know what I mean, If
you pulled up in their driveway, one, how did you
get into the gated community?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Somebody saw you get through the gate most likely, right,
you have to have some sort of key code or
card to get in there. And then on top of that,
if you were able to bypass all that stuff without
anybody seeing you or doing whatever, they're gonna know what
kind of at least tires you have based off of
the marks that you. I mean, this is this was
(22:07):
so recent that it's like it's really hard to get
away with something like this, just because every little detail
is one either documented or they can track, like, oh yeah,
this is a good year tire that was bought from uh,
you know, Joe's tire barn on the fifteenth of October
last year. Who bought this boom, you're caught, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's crazy that it's they're
not caught. Still. Yeah, So now that they were both found,
you know, the police were working on finding like the
window of time that this attack would have happened. So
it was confirmed that Russell was seen in public on
the first he was shopping at a public s grocery
(22:46):
store at two twenty six pm, and then before dinner
that night, they talked on the phone with their son Brad,
and then I may, a witness recalled seeing Russell out
on his daily morning walk on like the golf course nearby,
and at four point thirty pm is when their mail's delivered.
And like I said, Shirley loves doing the crassword, and
(23:08):
they had seen that the May second paper Crossword had
been started, so they're probably still alive on the second
and yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It's more more than likely it was the third. Then
it actually happened, right.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And they did have an alarm system, which their kids
like thought. You know, they usually locked their doors at
night and set the alarm for night, so it seemed
like nighttime. They were fine into the third and the
party was at four pm. On the third, so it
seemed to happen either early afternoon or morning on the third,
(23:47):
and Russell was found wearing a robe, slippers, stripe shorts
and a T shirt, so you know, he usually wore
his pjs for pretty long during the day and drink
his coffee and had a slow morning, so it was
probably in the morning. Yeah, So it was probably more
in the morning because when they found surely like she
was known to get up earlier, and she was wearing
(24:08):
clothing that she was probably going to wear to the party.
So and their bed was still unmade too, so it
was probably not afternoon, like, it was probably close to morning.
I don't know when they get up or when they
deactivate the alarm or like unlock the doors, but that's
probably when it happened. And the like the Saturday and
Sunday newspapers were left, so they hadn't gotten the Saturday
(24:33):
one yet in time, which I guess that if it
comes later, that would have been during the party maybe.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
But well, and it probably would come later on a Saturday. Yeah,
it's not going to be livered.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
You know, right, So yeah, probably the morning or like
before noon, I would say, But a neighbor did recall
seeing a man in their yard on the third, but
the neighbor was like so far away, I guess like
they couldn't tell if it was Russell or someone else.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So well, I was I was about to say, I
think if I'm imagining where they're living correctly, that it
is probably a relatively spaced out like property. You said
they live on an acre of waterfront property, right.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, yeah, I have a picture if you want.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Well, an acre is not huge, but it's it's big
enough to where if someone I'm assuming there are probably
older people living in this area that seeing that far
away might be challenging, and just seeing a silhouette of
someone you would just assume that it's your neighbor.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah. And it's like I said, they're surrounded by trees too,
so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This community is kind of
weird because the community map, it's like here's a section
of it, and then here's like two more sections that
are like totally like it's around the lake. But it's
like if you want to drive from one section to
the other, you have to like drive around like out
(26:04):
of the community and back in.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
That's weird.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
That's like weird. Yeah, yeah, because I saw, like this
gated community is supposed to have like three or four
gates into it, but the section that the Dermans were
in that there's just one gate like in and out
and like one main road.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Oh okay, so well, and they.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Have posted guards there too.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Well, so that's what I was about to say. It
more so confirms what I was thinking that they did
come from the water then, because if there's you know
what I mean, like you you wouldn't unless it's one
of the neighbors that the guards knew, that wouldn't even
pay any mind, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Right, Yeah, it could be someone from inside the community,
someone who lived there, or it's yeah, they came from
the water. I think those are the two big ones.
But yeah, the community, because I looked it up for
like currently now, I guess it says the population is
three hundred two. I don't know if that is how
it was, you know, ten years ago or whatever.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
But well, I'm sure it's probably relatively close about the same.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, and I was thinking it was like a retirement community.
But it says that the ages range from twenty five
to sixty four. Okay, so they were like eighties, So
I don't.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Know how well it's more of it's probably just a
very upscale, private neighborhood. Yeah, I think that's really what
I'm getting out of this.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah. So there were younger people there that could have,
I don't know, had a motive maybe or something, because
I feel.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Like that franchise money man maybe.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Yeah, but everyone said the Dermans were really well liked
and they lived a quiet life there, like there there's
not really a motive of like someone within the community like, oh,
they always beefed with this person, Like there's none of that.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah. See, well that's the thing I was going to say.
I don't know, I could probably count on like one hand,
like someone that's retired that is in a shitty mood
all the time, you know what I mean, Like most
people that are of that age and are done working,
Like they're not mean people. They just, like you said,
they want to wake up, sit and hang out for
(28:17):
a little bit, go to some parties, and then call
it good. You know. They're not trying to get anybody's business,
ruffle any feathers. So that makes sense, right.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, So it's a little weird, like where's the motive?
I also thought, because it said they had a wooded area,
and so I was thinking, could someone come through the
woods like outside of the community, looking at like where
they lived on the map, Like, that's not really a possibility.
So I don't know, if you want to see the map.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, let's look at it. I like looking at maths.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Okay, all right, let's share my street every time I
want the window this one. Okay, sure you see it. Okay, Yeah,
this is their area. So they're just like kind of
a peninsula and it's just that one road, main road
in but they were living kind of over here at
(29:10):
the time. Okay, they're more surrounded by water.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, So listeners that might not be watching this, you
should head over to YouTube and check out this awesome
content that Sarah's provided. But what it looks like is
this community, it has like two or three peninsulas off
to the what would that be north west of it
where you could access the lake, you know what I mean?
(29:37):
So that that even gives me more of a thought,
like it would be too easy to hop over from
one of those, go across the lake and get whever
you need to get, you know what I mean. You
wouldn't have to use that main road because that road
is ridiculously long that you'd have to get it is
that's the only way in or out if I had
(29:58):
if I was planning anything saying to get into that
sort of area, the road would be the emergency way
to go.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, the water's just so accessible,
and they were waterfront. I was thinking, you know, if
they were on the south side, there is a lot
of trees there and I think you could go in
outside of the community, But they weren't down there. They're
more on the north side.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah. I mean, but regardless, like listeners, you got you
got stuff off to the northwest, you got stuff off
to the southeast, and I'm sure if you zoom this out,
you probably have stuff off to the northeast as well
where you could easily access this.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
So yeah, yeah, so I think it was by the water,
but but I mean, they don't know, they can't say.
But the fact that they weren't.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Seen at the gate, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Unless it was someone who lived there. But also apparently
at that time the cameras at the gates were not
working because it convenient.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Why is it every damn time there's anything that happens,
these fucking cameras don't work.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
I don't know it was a recent electrical issue, like
in the whole area.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Huh yeah, but you always can hear.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
So they could have come through the gate and they
wouldn't have been caught on camera.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
They could have, they could have, they would have still
been seen by the guard. They would have been or
cameras aren't working, guard's sleeping. There you go, that's the
answer to that. Man. Absolutely, I hate it whenever I
find out something super duper interesting and then I hear
dumb shit like that, where oh yeah, well the cameras
weren't working today. It's like of all days, of all
(31:37):
the days, this is not one man.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, the cameras had stopped working on April twenty eighth,
so it was less than a week before. So that's crazy.
But you know, how many people really knew that, Like
the if they did come through the gate, like they
had have been really lucky, like they wouldn't have known
the cameras weren't working, or maybe they didn't know cameras
were there.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
But while well, that's true, that's fair. I don't think
you would pay attention to the cameras anyway. You would
either know they're there, or you wouldn't know they're there,
But I still stand by, like, knowing there's only one
way in or out of there, that's not the best
way to go.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yeah, the water you can go literally anywhere.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, I don't know. The sheriff has said he thought
a car would be involved, but then they definitely think
Shirley was dumped by a boat. So it's like, why
not just arrived by boat? Then, like why is he
thinking there was a car? But you know, he doesn't
really know. It could be either or both or whatever.
And it could be multiple people or one or someone
(32:42):
could have driven and someone could add a boat.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Well, based off of the grizzly nature of it, I
would bet it was not one person, right, I mean yeah,
And it wouldn't be easy to do all of that
by yourself.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, and it could explain why maybe they were killed
differently and stuff too, right. Yeah, Yeah, I guess I
should have kept sharing my screen. I want to share
one thing about the lake. This lake is massive, I
mean it just it just supports your theory. This is
(33:20):
the map of the lake Holy fuck. And it connects
to the Aconi National Forest at the north and then
it can go all the way down and then like
that little red circle is where they were living. Yeah,
but it could be literally like anywhere.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah, listeners, this lake is is big. We'll have some
stuff on social media, I'm sure to, you know, showing
some stuff like this. But yeah, that that is massive.
What what is the Is there a scale or legend
for this barny chance.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Adept to zoom in a lot. The legend it might
be blurry.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Because it is such a big That's fine, it's big
as ship. There we go.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Where does scale is one to forty thousand?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Okay? So no, okay, no, no, no, So the grid
is the grid's good? Now, So those are usually those
grids that are in there are usually about one thousand
square meters.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
So yeah, you're you're looking at a massive, massive yeah
access point. Yeah yeah, so you're you're looking at what
twenty one yeah, twenty one thousand, yeah, twenty one thousand
square meters.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Right from top to bottom.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, and just that it connects to the National Forest too,
and there's a couple obviously different towns and everything, so there's.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
A bunch of offshoots going everywhere. So I mean, yeah,
it could be from I highly doubt they would be
coming all the way from the National Forest.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
But oh yeah, there's plenty of access points. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was thinking because there was another lake below it,
but there's a dam, so you can't really connect there
because I was thinking like it was even bigger.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I bet you could because the cameras aren't working.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Well, you can't really drive a bunch just that'd be fun,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
So you could drive it. You can drive it one
way over a dam. Yeah, usually hard to come back
the next the other way, but you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
They probably had a different escape plan. Okay, so here's
just kind of the theories okay of who did this.
So first one is this was just random. Their door
was unlocked. Someone was just driving by on their boat
and killed them.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Fuck no, right, no, there is no way that someone
was just cruising on this lake and being like, you
know what I feel like doing today cutting somebody's set off.
Let's find a random house Nope, and.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
A broad daylight like yeah yeah, no, yeah, okay. And
so another theory is that it was a robbery gun wrong,
I could buy that, but they didn't take anything well
exuch as head.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Is that worth anything to get that knowledge? Man? Anyway? No, like,
in all honesty, like if it was I could see
it only because if you had, like I don't know,
two or three guys and one of them accidentally, like
you know, like you said that she was bludgeoned to death, right,
one of them accidentally hits her on the head too hard,
(36:34):
she falls over, They see she's dead, everybody freaks out,
you know what I mean, Like it doesn't quite explain
the decapitation part because that feels real personal, and I
don't think you would just do that if it was
just a random guy, you.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Know, yeah, you'd want to get out of there.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
But that would explain the time. Yeah, that would explain
why nothing was taken. It could have just been like, hey,
we're going to go rob these old people, but oops,
we hit her too hard. Now what do we do?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And then they shoot him?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Or maybe you had somebody that was trigger happy, you
know what I mean. I don't know that. I don't
buy it, but that's that's just how I would try
to justify it in my mind. I suppose hmmm, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Mean, since they were killed, I guess if you're bludgeoned,
I would assume there's still blood splatter, Like they didn't
find any blood, so it would.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Have necessarily really yeah, if you if you hit somebody
with a blunt object super hard in the head, you
could kill him without any any like like splatter from
you know, they're a wound on their head.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
So because Russell at least would have had to be
shot like outside or something for sure, since there was
nothing inside. But I don't know, I was thinking, like
if they accidentally kill someone, well the decapitation you're not
gonna do if you're freaked out and you just accidentally
killed someone. But I still feel like you'd grab something
(38:00):
on your way out.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
It might be if it was like a robbery gone wrong.
I don't think you would, because you there's probably at
least one person that had the voice of reason, like, dude,
we have got to go, you know what I mean.
But then it wouldn't like it wouldn't be as like
kept as the house was either, you know what I mean,
Like there would have been a struggle, right.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, you would have seen something and they wouldn't have
put towels in the garage to.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Suck up the Yeah, there's too much. There's too much
like preplanned stuff and then like the lamp, yeah, the garage.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Like yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's weird. Okay. So the
other theory is that it was a personal attack from
someone they knew and maybe someone who lived in the neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I think it was probably somebody they knew for sure.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, I think that. I don't know if someone living there.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
I don't think it would be somebody living there, because
there'd be I feel like there would be more evidence
of their presence if that was the case, you know
what I mean. And as far as like them getting
in the house, I don't feel like it would be
that big of a deal because everything's unlocked. You said,
it most likely happened in the morning, so they probably
weren't worried about, yeah, having any sort of security or
(39:16):
anything going on. They woke up, made their coffee, went outside,
sat on their back porch or something, and had all
the stuff off.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
So yeah, yeah, they probably did turn off the alarms
and had everything unlocked so they were able to come in.
But yeah, just the because of the head beheading, I
guess this seems very personal, like you sort of think.
So it seems like at least someone who knew them,
even if they didn't know the person or people.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, there's no way that this was random at all.
There was definitely some sort of personal connection for sure.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah. So with it being someone they knew, someone thought
maybe it was a disgruntled to employee or former employee
from one of their franchises. Okay, but it's like it
had been so long though, Well they.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Retired, true, I mean you're they they retired at that house, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Well they built that house for their retirement.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, so when they started living there, like they weren't
working anymore, correct, Yeah, So, well that that doesn't make
any sense. So it's like twenty years unless you got
some madman working at Wendy's that is just waiting twenty
years to exact his revenge, you know what I mean.
I don't Yeah, I don't buy that. I don't, man,
(40:38):
I don't like the way their son said that.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah. I don't know which son it was either though.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I trying to figure that out.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
But you know, I hope my mom, So why did
you say some of the effect of isn't around so
she can find PEP.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I hope she's at peace and didn't have to live
through this or something like that.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah, that's weird, man.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
They didn't have to go through this. Yeah, yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Is I don't like that. I don't like that at all. Okay,
that could be. That could be. I mean, I hate
to say it, but it happens all the time where
you know, well off parents are killed by their kids,
you know.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, yeah, that is one of the theories that we'll
get to. Well, that's the last theory that I'll have.
But but the disgruntled employee thing, I guess very shortly
after this murder, there was another very similar murder in
New York because of some of lady's like an employee
(41:38):
at her franchise killed her and her husband like very
similar like where they were an older lady and someone
had done that. So I think that's where this theory
comes from. That's maybe the same idea.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
But Sarah, there are disgruntled employees everywhere that work for
franchises that I promise, I don't that sound like, what
is there a network of serial killers through these franchised
companies that they just I think.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
People were just like grasping because it happened like very
soon after this, so it was just weird to people.
And they just grasp onto it. But someone said, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
No, I'm sorry. I mean, this happened in Georgia. Then
what are you doing driving all the way up to
fucking New York to go do the same thing like that?
Just go over to fucking North Carolina or Alabama or
fucking Tennessee, you know what I mean? Like, why why
are you going all the way to New York?
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Maybe he worked for both of them, maybe, I don't know. Yeah,
that's a little crazy. Yeah, someone said it was mistaken identity,
there was they wanted to kill someone else.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
It took us head to make sure.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Oh, people are saying because he was shot, maybe they
just wanted to take out the bullet case or whatever
the what they can't trace it back to the gun.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
And they ended up killing Shirley because she was a
witness to their mess up of killing Russell an accident.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah, we can move on from that.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Well, okay, first of all, anybody that might not know, like,
if you're going to shoot somebody in the head, the
intent is obviously to kill them. If you were that
worried about like, oh shit, I don't want my bullet
to be traced back, you wouldn't have fucking shot them
in the head.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Right, Yeah. So yeah, the last theory is that this
was a hired hit, kind of like what we talked
about with the what was her good Wins?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yeah, a Victoria or good Men.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, so you know, they think it was someone who
either had a grudge or it was one of their
children to inherit sooner. I don't know. People say they're
home at that time was valued at a million dollars,
but like it wasn't because I looked at the real
estate history for the house and it was listed in
(44:06):
November twenty fourteen, seven hundred and sixty nine thousand. Maybe
it was worth more, and then you know they died
in it, so that brings it down.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah. Well, well, to be fair, they did own two franchises,
so they obviously were doing well, regardless they had other
Yeah yeah, regardless of the value of the home's that's
just part of their total estate that I'm sure that
they were going to pass on to their kids. Yeah,
(44:35):
so the hired hit thing kind of makes sense. But
that's why the head though, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, Yeah, it's very weird because.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
If it's a hired hit and you're hiring somebody to
kill someone, one, that's really fucked up. Two, if part
of the hit is I need evidence of you doing this,
I want you to bring their head back to me,
and you bring and they bring you the head back. Yeah,
some sick ass fucking shit.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
I mean that's like movies and like right Cartel side.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, Yeah, it's really weird. Not that there aren't crazy
fucking people that will do that, because there are definitely
people in the world that will do that. But if
it was a hired hit for you to ask for
something like that, that's insane.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, And again like why just for Russell, wouldn't you
want to see like Shirley also was dead.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Well, I don't know, man, because I feel like whatever
the motive was, it had to have been all towards
Russell because there wasn't anything besides a blunt force blow
to the head like on surely like it, right, it
obviously like like the whole like scared, intimidated or interviewed,
(45:52):
whatever you want to call it. Something happened in the garage.
That's why the lamp was there, That's why you know
all that stuff happened. Yeah, So I feel like it
was way more personal towards Russell and surely just happened
to be the bystander that was in the middle of it.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yeah, And some people said it wasn't didn't seem super professional,
because then she would have been, you know, weighed down
more like she wouldn't have come up so soon in
the lake because they would know how to make sure
she's stayed submerged or whatever. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
That's that's that's fair. But at the same time, like
disposing of a body and water like, it's gonna bloat,
it's gonna decay faster, it's gonna like you're you're playing
a risky game. I feel like when you do that,
just because the likelihood of it coming up is relatively high,
just from the buoyant force of your body.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Right, But why not take her farther away then? Since
that lake's massive.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Well, they were six miles away, so maybe they thought
it was far enough way, you know, or it could
have been maybe, Yeah, depending on how like what what
wind currents look like there, Maybe she did drift a
little bit from the original spot.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Yeah, that's true. Well, okay, so their children at the time,
though they seem to all be financially well off. So
I mean, I know people could always want more money,
but it didn't seem like the motive is there still, right.
So they did have four kids, but one had been
(47:27):
killed in two thousand, which was the oldest son, Mark,
so a lot of people think his death connects to theirs.
Oh so he so he was shot three times on
his forty seventh birthday in Atlanta on August thirtieth, two thousand,
and he was there to purchase crack cocaine and at
the time, the drug dealer tried to rob him, so
(47:49):
that's how he got shot. And a friend was also
there who was shot in the leg but survived. And
like since his friend was there, they were able to
find who did it and put them in jail. But
some people think that drug dealer was part of a
bigger gang and they were wonn in revenge. But again
it's like fourteen years later, so it doesn't that seems
(48:13):
like a long time still, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
That delation. Yeah, well, you know, I mean you got
to think, how busy are those guys that are, you know,
selling on the streets. You know, they got other things
to do. They had to make some money before you know, I.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Guess, yeah, yeah, and that was I mean, they're a
little bit past Atlanta and stuff, so not the exact
same area.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
But I don't know if that would make sense though,
because I mean, a drug deal gone wrong and you're
blaming the father like that. That seems weird, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah, right, And I mean the son's forty seven, so.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Why why would you even worry about what happened to
his dad like you would? I don't know, that doesn't Yeah,
that doesn't sound right.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah. So they're their sons, Brad and Keith. They both
lived in Florida at the time, and they owned Ramsey Development,
which operated fast food restaurants. They're kind of, you know,
doing the same thing their parents did.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Their firm employed seven hundred people and generated more than
fourteen million dollars in revenue per year when this happened.
So yeah, yeah, And they also had previously owned Derman
Food Services, which they had disbanded in two thousand and
one with like no debt outstanding. So it's like, yeah,
(49:40):
but their daughter, Leslie, she lived in North Carolina at
the time, and like I could not find anything about her,
and she like does not say anything like ever first
stuff I could find. Yeah, so that's a little weird,
but I don't know. I literally couldn't find what she
did or if she was making money or had any debts,
(50:03):
ort of like nothing.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
That's very strange. Yeah, that's that's really weird because okay,
like the one that was killed by the drug dealer, Okay,
that makes sense. The other ones that like, you can
find any information you probably want to on them, and
then nothing on her.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
No, I couldn't find anything. It took me like forty
minutes to even find her.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Name what because it.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Just kept saying like if they wouldn't say the name
and anything.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
That's wild. That's a big red flag.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
So if I was a batman, that would be my bed. Yeah,
it seems really odd.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, Like it was weird that because all these newspapers,
you know, dug into what the guys did and if
they had any outstanding deads and I couldn't find anything
about her.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah that's weird.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah. They did all pass polygraph tests though.
Speaker 4 (50:59):
But yeah, you can fake that, Yeah, especially if you're
a psychopath, which clearly whoever did this is oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Yeah. So in twenty twenty three, there was new DNA
found off of Russell's shirt, which I would assume they
referenced with the kids, and it doesn't match, I would assume, well.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
If the cameras weren't working.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Yeah, but the police are also using cell phone data
like with geo fencing to try and narrow down people.
Then I don't know, is that newer? Like, I don't
think that's that new. Why didn't they do it before? Now?
Speaker 2 (51:43):
I don't. I don't know. I don't think it is
like super new, but I don't think it's anything that
was ever really, I could be wrong. I think since
the advent of you know, towers and cell phones and
stuff like that, that's part of what they do to
find people in these sorts of things. So I don't
I don't think it's like a I don't think it's
like a super new thing. But I'm sure they've been
(52:05):
doing it since the mid two thousands. I can almost
guarantee that to.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Some degree, right, Yeah. I mean the only time I've
heard about it was when I was having issues in
twenty twenty two, I guess, or whatever, Right, So I
guess that's close to maybe that is more people could
use it at that point or something versus like twenty fourteen.
Yeah maybe, but yeah, there's no new information from those
(52:34):
two things. So but it is still an open investigation,
and they have raised the reward to twenty five thousand
dollars for any information that could lead to an arrest
or does lead to an arrest. I guess. So the
fbuy's offering twenty thousand and the Putnam County Sheriff's Office
is adding five thousand.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
So well, that's wild, man. I don't know, like you
never I'm sure it happens all the time, but you
don't hear about people getting away with shit like that anymore.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Yeah, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, it's crazy.
I mean it was only ten years ago or eleven
years ago.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
But well still, I mean that it sounds like because
I mean, you know, back in the day, if there
was a murder that happened, like you would, you know,
maybe cut off their head or cut off their hands
so you couldn't identify them, so nobody knew because you
didn't have fingerprints or you couldn't see their face anymore obviously,
So it's like, well, we just have a body, we
don't know who it belongs to, you know, So that
was one of the easiest ways to get away with it.
(53:35):
And I'm talking like way back, I'm not talking you know,
twenty years ago, you know, but I don't know, extremely personal.
I don't like that you can't find anything on the
daughter at all.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
I feel like I feel like it was either someone
they know or it was some sort of hit for sure.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yeah, yeah, I think so too. Yeah, the daughter's suspicions,
to me, that seems weird. I'm also not sure what
order she's in, like if she's.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
The youngest, you know whatever.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
But yeah, I feel like with the two sons, like
going with the parent, what the parents did, and then
the other son died, then I feel like she was
like overlooked. Maybe ors that's.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
A good That's kind of what I was thinking. You
have all the success stories about the other two sons,
and you know, here she is, so could be a
little bit of animosity, but who knows.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
Maybe. So, Yeah, that's weird. But hopefully they find something
with that DNA, that new DNA.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
Yeah, well hopefully if they do, we'll have to do
a follow up for sure.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah, so actually, you know what we're gonna have to,
Like there's a few that we've done that, we're gonna
probably have to do some follow ups on here, new
information and stuff like that. Maybe we'll just do like
a grap bag episode of like all the follow ups
and like do like little ten fifteen minute segments or whatever.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Yeah, it would be good. So yeah, all.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Right, well listeners, if that a little grab bag thing
sounds awesome, let us know in the comments, send us
an email at Paranoid Perspective Podcast at gmail dot com
let us know if that's something you would be interested in.
But hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you guys
do have any information, we'll have links down below where
you can report anything like that. Check us out wherever
you're listening to this, make sure you give us a
review if you can do that, like the podcast, any
(55:25):
piece of media that you're seeing, like comment, share all
that good stuff. Check out our patreon Patreon dot com,
forward slash the Paranoid Perspective Podcast and have some extra
perks over there for you.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
And as always, remember just because you're paranoid doesn't mean
they're not watching. See you next time on the Paranoid
Perspective and at
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