December 14, 2023 • 54 mins
C.L. Thomas travels widely every year as a fine arts photographer and writer exploring various afterlife research, OBEs, metaphysics, folklore, and paranormal events and group. She is an author of the novel “Speaking to Shadows” and host of Small Town Tales Podcast. She has written many articles and maintains a blog on legends, folklore magic, and paranormal stories. Currently, she resides in Las Vegas, Nevada with her beloved Golden Retriever and Maine Coon cat.
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(00:00):
The Paranormal Project Radio Show carry yourhosts, Scott Allen and Christina Bowen.
(00:43):
Hello everyone, and welcome to anotheredition of The Paranormal Project Radio Show.
Happy Wednesday to everybody. How areyou Christina this week? I am fabulous.
How nice to see you all deckedout in your gay apparel and you'll
tie whatever you want to. Hello, Adam, Megan, good to see
you. Yeah, it's like it'sChristmas in a couple of weeks. I
(01:04):
can't believe, not even a coupleof weeks. Wow, it's the craziest
thing. It's the craziest thing.So yeah, I don't know if you
saw much post earlier today, butit's like if I I don't even know
what I've ordered anymore, Amazon coulddeliver a goat tomorrow and I would not
be surprised. Yeah, would thatbe for your dad? I'm telling you
(01:27):
one thing you and I are goodat, besides talking to the dead and
putting hexes on people, is puntingat the last minute. So our guest
this week was Katie Katie Elizabeth,who is a champ expert. Uh,
you know Lake Champlain Champion is theis the sea monster there that they are?
The Lake Monster, I guess,and uh, she had a last
(01:51):
minute conflict. So thankfully we haveanother guest tonight that we're going to tag
that I'm we're going to talk tothat. I'm equally as excited about.
C. L. Thomas is anauthor. She was on our show last
year. She has a small TownTales podcast, but she's a brand new
podcast, and we're gonna talk aboutthat tonight. It's called The Gateway,
(02:13):
and we are going to speak withher about her podcast and all the stuff
she's got going on, because shelives a very interesting, interesting life.
Adam Bacon says, monster Hunter.Who are you the monster hunter? Who's
Oh you're talking about Katie Elizabeth.Yeah, she's not with us tonight,
Adam, she's not with us tonight. I don't know. She had a
conflict that came up at the lastminute. So but we do have cl
(02:35):
Thomas. I'm going to bring herout here in just a second and let's
see hello, my friend. Howare you good to see you again.
It's nice to see you too.Thank you for having me on your show,
and thank you for not getting tothe gym in time. This is
really great. Suffer greatly for it. Just so you know. Well,
you know that's all right. Iwas I was texting you, and before
(02:59):
I heard from you, I wastexting Christina and I said, like,
think about something to talk about becausewe need to change gears at about two
seconds. That I hate that whenthat happens. So, but you've got
some stuff going on. So you'velaunched your new book. I have Dancing
with Demons, and you're still doingSmall Town Tales, which I was on
(03:20):
last year, and you were onwith us last year, and now you've
got The Gateway and I'm going tobe on with you the day after Christmas.
So people are just sitting around lookingfor something to do we can talk
with. What's the difference between smallTown Tales and the new one Gateway.
Well, the small Town Tales podcastwas it started out as a paranormal podcast,
(03:43):
but it's really more about small townlegends and things pertaining to the paranormal,
and that's where you're you know,goes to paranormal investigators and maybe stuff
about Bigfoot would fit on that one. But it wasn't what I really wanted
in a podcast. I was lookingmore for something to stream and talk to
(04:08):
guests about metaphysical healing. Mediumship,spirit talk, kind of topics and just
you know, spirit communication, allthings mediumship pretty much. And so I
created the new show The Gateway.And there's a woman named Michelle de Rocher.
(04:29):
She used to be on a coupleof those paranormal shows she has.
I think it is called the OuterRealms Radio Show. There was an opening
that came up on the one ohseven point seven FM station, and she
asked me to do a new showwith her, or not with her,
but just to do a new showin that spot. So I took this
(04:51):
spot. Now, where is that? Is that out in your area?
No, it's actually broadcast out inNew Orleans, it is Okay, it's
audio only on the radio US.You're everywhere else, right, You're right?
Yeah, So they put it on. I'm not sure exactly how it
works, but I know it's goingout on Roku and a bunch of other
(05:15):
different places. Cool. Now Rokuhas podcasts. I didn't even know that
street. Yeah, it's a radioshow. How cool? Is that?
Good for you? Good for you? So? So have you found I
mean, I know you're kind ofbooked up, right, You've got you've
got a bunch of guests already plannedout, But are they all mediums or
(05:36):
are they like large as like No. So there's a lot of different people
that are coming on the show.So I'll probably I'm going to have you
guys on, sure, but there'sa lot of different people that are coming
on. There's a demonologist that's goingto speak next week, and nice a
permimal investigator on last week. Butit's you know, it's a direction I
(06:00):
really want to take the show.If I do do paranormal investigators, I
want to take it deeper. Andwhat's normally talked about, right, no
normal field. Now you have allof these groups and their primary focus is
to collect data and then decide ifit exists or not. And to me,
(06:20):
this stuff exists. So what's thenext step. And that's where I'm
trying to go with the Gateway podcast. I like that. Yeah, I
do too. And I think thatyou know, and I know we're going
to talk about this a little biton your show, but I think you
know, the medium ship it's notall about it's not all about doing a
reading at a site, but it'sit's using that whatever you want to call
(06:45):
it, that that intuition to beable to sense what you find and how
can we how can we back itup with equipment potentially, you know,
just just or vice versa. Youknow. But I think that I think
there's definitely a place for the mediumin the paranormal. Yeah, and the
(07:08):
mediumship doesn't have to be paranormal either. I mean, you know, you've
got a lot of other opportunities too. I mean there's there's mediums that don't
do anything with the paranormal, that'sright exactly. I think a mediumship opens
that door to serve spirit and tohelp somebody actually heal. So there's a
whole other part of it that Ithink the paranormal world kind of misses.
(07:30):
I love that outlook. I dotoo. I think that and you know,
a lot of people may not knowthis, but you are developing your
own gifts that you have. Andyou know, we've talked about this in
the past over the last you know, year or two, and I think
that the more you embrace it,the stronger it is. Would you say
(07:51):
for yourself, because I know you'reseeing some changes and how you get things
and how you are able to deliver, so you actually turt and beyond.
To Joseph Schiel, he's an Idon't know if he's famous, but he's
a pretty well known medium and he'sknown for his spirit art, and so
(08:13):
I've taken a class or two withhim, and it turns out he's a
really good spirit artist and so I'mtraining under him for spirit art. Can
you train? What spirit art is? For those a don't know? Okay,
So there's two different things with thespirit art and the paranormal crowd seems
(08:35):
to take it as you sit withthe client and you kind of sketch out
maybe their spirit guide or something alittle more abstract, whereas I'm taking it
into more of an evidential mediumship sideto where you're actually drawling the person.
Like I'm able to show somebody theimage and it looks like Grandma or whoever,
(09:00):
whoever the spirit is that that's connectingat that time. So there's some
kind of evidential back or evidence towhat I'm trying to sketch out and whatever
spirit that I'm trying to connect with, you know. And it's funny because
I feel like I've asked Joe this. So Joe, for those of you
who don't know, Joe Shield ispretty famous within the world of mediums.
(09:24):
I mean, he's taught at theArthur Finlay College in the UK. But
he's also now. He doesn't likethe word pastor, but he is.
He's pastor of the Journey Within Churchin Pompeno Lakes, New Jersey. And
the Journey Within is really the onlySpiritualist church in the United States directly linked
back to the UK. Others cancall themselves Spiritualist churches, but they're not.
(09:48):
They don't have that tie to theArthur Findley Spiritualist Union, which is
in the UK. He he isa fantastic medium. He actually mentors me,
which I love. But he's he'sa great spirit artist. And I
asked him one day, I said, you know, I think that I
(10:09):
don't get I don't always see spiritas spirit is. I see spirit as
I need to see them to understandwhat they're trying to say to me.
And so I don't know that Icould ever do spirit art. Besides the
fact that I told you yesterday,you know, Grandma would have to look
like a stick figure in order forsomeone's recognize her in real life. I
(10:31):
don't think I have that talent.But but seriously, I think that I
don't know if I get it thesame way. And we don't always all
get it the same way. Youknow, how I get messages is not
how you're going to get them,and yours comes out in a very different
way. And I think that's whatmakes it so nice. You know,
(10:52):
You're absolutely right. I'm very visional. I'm very visual anyway. You know,
I have a photography background on thepage. I do all of this
artistic stuff, so I'm very visual. So it's like we talked about this
too, Scott. A lot oftimes when the spirit is coming through,
I don't always hear them. Idon't know, Scott, you said you
(11:15):
do. I usually see it inimages. It's almost like flashes. So
I'll be able to stretch out whatdon't hear like like here, Like I
don't hear like I hear you,but it will flash into my mind like
immediately, oh oh, well,like today, you know, I was
doing a reading and like, ohoh rot Rose Rose? Who the name
(11:37):
Rose? Oh? Yeah, that'sso and so sometimes it comes to me
like that, So I say here, but I don't know if I hear
here. I don't think I hearit outside of my body. I think
I just get it, and sometimesit'll come out on paper. So I've
I've gotten the habit of like carryinga piece of paper with me and I
doodle and sometimes I'll look back andoh, why did I write that?
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Or or this doodle will look likea word that I hadn't even comprehended,
like, oh, does that meananything to you? And it does.
It'll come out on the paper.So stuff like that will happen. But
you know, other people, they'reall clear, audient, they'll hear everything.
I'm just not that person, youknow me. It's a lot of
(12:18):
visual, but not as much asit used to be. And I feel
like you'll find too, the moreyou do this, the more fine tune
that will actually get for you.I've had some really good results so far.
Some of the clients that I've had. You know, I don't do
readings on the normal stuff, solike, I don't do it for money
(12:39):
or anything like that. But theclients I have had, I've sketched them
out and sent them the drawing,and a lot of them will call me
and they're just bawling because it's thestuff that comes out in them. One
lady in particular, it was ofa really good friend of hers who committed
(13:01):
suicide just recently, and what Isaw was him in like a full hunter
suit. He had like a bunchof antlers around him. There was a
bunch of symbolism that sometimes I getworse, like you're saying, Like for
this one, I had warlock,so I didn't know what that meant,
(13:22):
right, So I just would sketchit on the side and just leave it
there. But when I sent itto her if she called me and I
guess he was a taxon ormist,which is where all the animal images were
coming from, and she knew exactlywho this guy was. It was crazy.
I think I even got the nameon that one. But it's funny
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because I feel like with yours,and you know you've you've done spirit out
for me, I feel like theentire reading is in the painting. It's
not like you just draw Grandma,you know what I mean? Like Grandma
might be there, but it's notjust that. It's the symbolism of I
don't know I'm making this up,but the symbolism of where she is in
(14:03):
the photo and the cabin with thebrook and the birds and the trees and
the little messages that pop up throughit. And I think that that's what
I think is so cool, becauseeven Joe, who does spuridite, doesn't
draw like that. He'll draw thepeople and sometimes he'll draw three, four,
five people that'll all show up inthe same photo, but it's not
(14:24):
the cabin and the fire and thebirds and you know, all those sort
of things. So I it's greathow we all get something just a little
bit different. It's really interesting,just a whole field of mediumship. You
start to meet other people that haveabilities like this too, and you're right.
They all come out in different ways. Some people will smell things and
(14:46):
that's how they're able. I'm notsure exactly how that works, but they'll
smell roses or something that belonged tothe client's mom. I don't know.
That's very strong. And I'll tellyou something strange about that too. Happened
to me often, but it doeshappen from time to time. Only once
have I smelled like a perfume thatwas so strong. It was in the
(15:07):
room with me and I wasn't ina reading. This is when I was
unfolding and everything was like ramped upto you know, the nth degree.
But sometimes in a reading I'll getlike cigarette smoke, or perfume or lilacs
or whatever it is. But it'snot in the room. It's like in
your memory that you can smell.I don't know how to even explain that
(15:31):
to you. I mean, Christina, now you you probably have experienced that
at some point, not in amedium. You actually quite quite regularly actually,
And I've said I am not amedium, and I don't ever want
to be. I don't know howy'all do it. I really don't.
But that I've had is I routinely, almost nine o'clock every evening, cigarette
(15:58):
smoke comes through the living room.Yeah, I mean, I feel like
I know who it is, andyou know, I welcome them, but
yeah, it's pretty odd. Butfor me, it it is like in
the room. And many times otherpeople can smell it too, So I'll
just be sitting there and like,can y'all not smell that? Yeah?
(16:22):
And almost always they're like, yeah, I thought somebody was, you know,
back there, No nobody's here,so well, you know, and
I'll say this too, and Ithink, I don't know what you think,
Crystal, but see, but Ifeel like, you know, you
because you're not a medium, youneed to have it a little more in
your face, which means it wouldbe in the room and just like you've
(16:44):
gotta gotta be you know. Ithink the more you do this, the
more subtle it becomes. And tobe honest, I mean, I wish
it was as full blown open asit was when it first happened, because
man, it was like watching amovie play out and you're getting sounds and
smells and and it's not like thatanymore. A lot of it is like
mind implantation, Like they just stickit in your mind like a memory you
(17:07):
used to have, Like if youthink of your grandmother's perfume as an example,
you can almost smell it by rememberingit. But it's not. It's
when it comes unexpected, like likeoh, oh that's her, that's her,
you know what I mean. It'snot like you were thinking. That's
kind of what it like. Whatit's like when it's when it's subtle,
(17:32):
and I think that that's, uh, that's how we get it. The
more we do it. Yeah,oh I'm sorry, go ahead. It's
it's kind of like an instrument whereyou have to practice as well to get
better at it. It is.Did you learn that from Jill? Yeah?
I did. That's a matter offact, because he says that all
(17:53):
the time he plays the guitar,but he says, that's how we are,
and and it's like you are theinstrument and and they're there to play
you. I mean in that way, you know, use me, play
me, use use my thoughts,use my emotions. Anything that that's in
my memory or in my reality youcan use. And I feel like the
(18:15):
readings get so much better that waythey do. And the second part of
that too, that he teaches isyou kind of have to learn a whole
spirit language almost like what does colorsmean? What does numbers mean? Because
some people, like me, I'mvery visual, I'll see like for something,
and of course that means something.You know, certain colors for some
(18:38):
people will mean anger or whatever itis. Emotion. There's a lot to
it. But you know what,you know what those y'all, I feel
like, let's just use a color, let's just use magenta. I don't
know, for lack of another word, it may elicit a feeling in you,
(19:00):
but it may be very different thanthe feeling that that Christina gets when
she sees it, or that Iget when I see it. So it
isn't it's we all have our ownkind of like library, for lack of
a better words, library is soI don't think that's perfect. Yeah,
you know that we use I mean, they'll show me, as an example,
someone that's been on blood thinners.Okay, they'll show me like an
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arm with all like bruise marks.I'll get that, and I'm like,
oh, like they were on bloodthinners. It doesn't mean that they had
black and blue marks. No,it doesn't mean that. It's just that's
how they're showing it to me.But you might get it totally different.
You might see I don't know somethingtotally different, but it means the same
thing. And it's like we allspeak a different language and they know what
(19:45):
that language is and they can communicatewith it, which is really cool.
It is really cool. I'm gladthey don't speak to me in like Russian
or anything, because I'd missed thewhole thing. I wouldn't get anything I
was was I going to say,Oh, I always tell people too,
like if it hasn't entered into mymemory or into my imagination, like they
(20:07):
can't use it. So if yourgrandmother was from India and she had this
first name that was twenty six letterslong. Guess what, I'm not getting
it in a reading. It's nevergoing to happen because she can't talk to
me in English and say this ishow it's pronounced. Here you go.
They have to give me a wayto get it. And that's how it
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is with anything, you know.So I, you know, I feel
like the more we build that libraryfor ourselves, the better it is.
You know, like, Okay,you need to show me when when you
want to talk to me about anarmy person, then you need to show
me this. If you want toshow me that they were an accountant,
I need to see this and writeit down and make a library of symbols
(20:52):
that you need that you can recognizeso that when you see it, you
know what it means and they'll useit. Has that been your experience to
you? Yes, that that's kindof what I'm referring to when I say
spirit language. So you kind ofhave to learn. You have to.
You have to, like Joe says, you have to know yourself. You
have to learn the spirit art andhow the how the spiritual connecting with you
(21:17):
in order to interpret the message.And that's something I struggled with for a
while because I am so visual.It was kind of hard. I think
we've discussed this in the past.It's like I'll see something, but I
don't know how to relay the message. You know, what does it mean?
Yeah? Are you trying to tellme? Yeah? Exactly, exactly.
(21:38):
And sometimes they'll play with you,you know you think it means.
Well. Here's an example. Thishas happened to me twice in probably the
last couple of months. I hada reading just before we get on the
call today, and I have thiswoman that's in front of me, and
I can see how she's dressed likeshe's going out and giving me all kinds
of things about how she passed,and you know, four or five six
(22:03):
things that that that they could relateto. Except she said to me,
I understand all of it. Exceptit's not a woman. It's a man.
And I said, that's really oddbecause I'm definitely seeing a woman.
M h. So then I said, is there a man here with that
same thing? And there was aman there, and it was almost like
(22:26):
a joke, like, oh,playing with you. The woman was the
mother. The woman the man's mother, and she made herself known at that
point. So I'm seeing her,but he's the one that's talking. He's
the one that's giving me the information, like implanting it. So I've only
(22:47):
had that happen twice. And it'sthe weirdest thing because usually I can figure
out who's the male and who's thefemale. And it was so strange that
I was getting. And it wasfunny because I went into the reading and
I thought I'd bet a man anda woman here, but the woman is
talking louder. I could, butit was because she was the visual.
I couldn't see him. She wasthe visual. He was the voice.
(23:07):
That's really interesting. Yeah, Imean, so, look, I don't
understand any of this stuff and whywe get what we get. I don't
understand it. Yeah I don't either. It makes sense to you, It
doesn't, right, It just happens. It really doesn't. Yeah. Somebody
asked me one time, well what'sit like and how does it work?
And I'm just like, I haveno idea. I don't know. It
(23:27):
just happens. Figure it out,let me know. Yeah. Well,
I did a house event the othernight and the guy says, well,
I'm a skeptic. I'm like,good me too, because I don't I
really am you know. This iswhy I'm never going to tell you what
your spirit guy's names are, becausethat's about to boloney. I mean,
you know they really have a name. Maybe they do, but how can
you prove it. I only wantto do things. We talk about the
(23:48):
authenticity of what we do. Ionly want to give you what you can
understand and validate. You know what, I it's pointless, It's true.
I'm trying so hard not to sayZonar. Remember who was the robot on
Lost in Space? It's so that'swhat I feel like. I don't even
(24:11):
know. It does mean huh robot, Robbie the robot. It does mean
something, and I can't think.I looked it up. It's something KI
symbol. What it is? It'ssomething to do with KI. Do you
know that? Do you know?Do you know? Did you know that
term? Yeah? What does itmean? What's it mean? I can't
(24:33):
answer you. I'd have to googleit just so you don't. You don't
know what it is. I've heardof it and I recall it in my
classes and everything, but it's nota piece that I kept. It's not
something to do with Raki. That'sall I know. Yeah, I can
look it up. Real quick whenyou when you put the rake on them,
you know, I mean, nowyou know when you works on and
(25:00):
they still zonar go with the grain. Yeah, So it is not straight
reiki. So it says zonar isthe first symbol you learn at the first
level of reiki. It can helpheal deep emotional scars from the present as
well as the past. Okay,so there you go. And what you
(25:26):
say, you don't do straight yankeestraight? Yekey, No, I'm I'm
I describe what I do is moreenergy work. Reki is a part of
it, but it's just a partof it, gotcha. So it's not
straky, is it geeky? Whateverit is, we do it kids and
(25:49):
animals anyway, Sorry to go downthat path. That's all right, that's
all right. I see it,I see it, I get it,
aways get a little pg and thenhave to get right back to it.
So we do we do. Yeah, But I'm as fascinated by it as
(26:11):
I know you are and as otherpeople are, and I don't I'm starting
to understand what I need to doto do it better, but I still
don't know why it works. Yeah, I think that's you know, it's
a universal question. Right, it'sone of those questions that humanity will never
(26:33):
be able to answer that it.You know, we may not, we're
probably not supposed to know that,you know. But a statement and why
we're continuing to seek we always wantto answer. I mean as part of
it. You know, we're allhere anyway, as you know, to
grow, to learn the whole purposeof life. Right, we wouldn't grow
(26:56):
very much or seek very much ifwe knew everything. And I think that
it's one of those things that keepus striving and moving forward, you know.
So this is my theory on it. Well, and I don't think
it matters. I mean, Ithink you get what you get, and
we do what we do. Andsome people are called to, you know,
be a physician, some people arecalled to other things. This is
(27:21):
it was. It was a littlemore less subtle than a phone call.
It was a little bit more youknow, intense, but it's it's still
a calling. I mean, weget what they get. And I and
I think, I don't know aboutyou, but I feel like the reason
we put it off so much,you know, like I doing this kind
of thing was because I am askeptic deep down, Like it has to
be real to me. It hasto feel real, like I could never
(27:45):
do this if I felt like Iwas making it up right and I needed
it proven to me. I neededit proven to me a couple of years
just to say, okay, well, you know consistently these things that I
feel, think whatever that pop intomy head, people understand. And that's
I think. You know, ittook me. It took me that that
(28:07):
that length of time just to understandit. You know, it's just Betsy
Brown Williams. Hi, Betsy,how are you? Hi? Welcome,
Welcome to the show. Betsy Williamsis such a sweetheart. You know her?
I know her now. I wantto know how she found you so
quickly. Oh it's kind of strange, right, how she found me on
(28:32):
here, on here, now onhere, like all of a sudden you
know her because I don't. Idon't know Betsy, and you don't know
Betsy. I mean, if youknew Betsy like I know Betsy. Hey,
Chris, Jesus gotta have a grating Scott. No. I just
think it's great because you weren't ourscheduled guest, and all of a sudden,
here you are, and there sheis. So that's that's what I
(28:53):
was saying. I thought it waskind of funny. It's a spirit thing.
It's thing. I love it whenstuff like that happens. If you
were just talking about needing reinforcement andquestioning the messages that you were receiving,
and I love it when little littlethings like this that are just gentle reminders.
(29:15):
You just said it's a spirit thing. It is a spirit thing.
Definitely is a spirit thing. Spiritthing. Yeah, there it is.
And that's the kind of stuff thathappens. But you know, those are
the things that I think happen toa lot of people and they just don't
notice it. They don't have adeja vou or any of that kind of
stuff. It's part of it.Yep. It's kind of like it's kind
(29:40):
of like paranormal investigating. You know, you go into a place and everyone's
expecting the Hollywood results of go screamingin your face and shadows and all that
kind of stuff. Yeah, butreally what happens is the activity nine out
of ten times is very very subtle. So if you you are not taking
(30:00):
it in, if you're not payingattention, you can miss it easily.
If you're too busy looking at thegadgets and all that kind of stuff.
You're going to miss it. AndI think working with spirit is almost the
same thing. The message you getit like subtly, you know, in
your everyday life. It could besomething as simple as getting a message from
(30:22):
seeing a feather on the ground.I've heard people seeing pennies mean something.
It could be a billboard advertising Nike, but just the I don't know,
live bigger could really be a turningpoint for somebody out there. So I
agree, I agree, and don'tyou think too. It's the same for
(30:45):
us. And this is why peoplesay, oh, do you pick up
stuff when you're in the grocery store? No, because I'm just doing my
shopping and my mind isn't there,you know what I mean. I think
if you don't take the time toquiet yourself down, you miss it exactly.
You have to pay attention to it. I grew up with the paranormal.
I've been seeing or having paranormal experiencesthis like age two and three,
(31:10):
So it's been a long thing.It's been a lifelong journey for me.
But there was a time in highschool and in college. I was in
med school for a while where allI wanted to do was focus on school
and graduate because I wanted a doctorate. And I don't know that I didn't
(31:30):
see anything paranormal. It was likeit was forgotten, you know. I
just put that part of me awayand focused on other things. So if
you're not focusing on it, yeah, you're gonna not hear the messages.
No, And like I said,it's that way for all of us now.
Not everyone's going to be a medium, not everyone's going to be out
on stage, you know, sharingmessages with people, but we all have
(31:55):
that little nugget of intuition that willalert us to certain things. And if
you just take the time to quietand be aware that it exists and look
for it, you'll show up.It's very true spirit, Yes, absolutely
absolutely. I want to throw outthere too. Being open to spirit doesn't
(32:17):
mean you're going to get possessed everytime you go on it location. That's
just not the case. Thank youfor saying that. Yeah, it's only
happened to me three times. AndI can't tell you how many places I've
been to. Next time, Scotty, I'm not oping you next time.
I mean, it's so true though, you know, it really is so
(32:37):
true. And and and we don'tget possessed by doing readings either. You
know, you think you know anybad stuff coming in at all? Is
Betsy a medium? Yes, sheis. She's got Yeah. I was
getting just from her messages. Iwas getting some of that. That's that's
great, Betsy. You want tobe on a show. Hit me up
(33:00):
after the show. Yeah, yeah, I think that. I think it's
just fascinating really, and that's whyI like that you're doing, you know,
getting back to she says, I'velearned I just prefer to use myself
rather than the equipment. And youknow what I love. I love equipment,
(33:27):
but I love being able to seewhat I get, you know,
I love being able to see Ilike the cross validation. Yeah, it
is school methods. I mean dowsingrods is my go to. Yeah,
I mean that. I'll be honestwith you even that, though I sort
of get a little bit like I'drather trust Well, you're not a medium,
(33:52):
so I get it. I wantto trust myself even more than that
because I feel like, just youknow, you use your hands, you
go back or this way, youknow, and you're not even knowing it.
It'll change the way they bend andI try to hold them straight,
but then if I breathe, sometimesthey move, you know what I mean.
So I don't even know if Itrust that one hundred percent either.
(34:13):
And I use a pendulum sometimes becauseI think it's kind of cool, you
know, And I don't know ifyou do this, if you ever use
a pendulum seal I have. Ihave used one before. I do it
sometimes if I'm doing a reading,it's you know, out of sight of
the camera or whatever. But whenspirit comes, it spins a lot faster,
(34:34):
like you'll see it really starting tolike ramp up. You'll see the
energy start to go, and thenwhen it starts, it's not doing anything.
And I know I'm not sitting herespinning it like that. So well,
ultimately, all of those gadgets andthings, they're just tools to help
us focus and hear what's coming throughus. Anyhow, It just for me
(34:58):
because I'm not a medium, Ineed things like that right and help me
understand what's happening and try to getsome answers. So let me ask you
this l because you you know,obviously you've got two shows and you've got
you've interviewed a lot of different peoplefrom different walks of life, certainly within
the paranormal. What is your experience. Do people appreciate having mediums to work
(35:23):
with on an investigation in general ordo you find that they prefer to just
keep it like instruments only, youknow what I mean. Devices. It
kind of depends on who you're talkingto. Honestly, I know there's a
lot of teams out there who don'tbelieve the mediums. They feel like and
(35:44):
I could kind of see their pointwith this. They feel like the medium
might stir the investigation a certain waywith what they've said, and I've seen
that where you know they're looking fora particular thing based on what the mediums
head. But then on the flipside of it, too, I think
(36:05):
people are open. A lot ofpeople do appreciate mediums too. It just
depends on which team you're working withand what the people are expecting you could
be with. It seems to bemore with the people who are just so
out to approve if something exists ornot. And I think that, I
mean, let's be fair, there'slike forty four thousand investigating teams right now
(36:29):
out then you know they're all different, and some of them Let's face it,
they're out there to try to proveif there is life after after death,
not for like the world, butfor themselves, right, So I
don't it just depends on who itis and what they're expecting. Most of
them, Yeah, And I thinkmost of them believe that there is something
(36:52):
because they've they've caught a voice ona recorder or they've caught some other you
know. Uh, it's it's thevoices. You can't it's undeniable, you
know what I mean, answering youintelligently, and I mean, where's that
coming from? The EVPs are justthat's you know. I just love that
(37:12):
part of the paranormal. It's theEVPs that's my favorite because I'll be picking
something up on an investigation and allof a sudden you get that EVP and
it's just like I knew it.I knew there was a woman here.
You know, there's no denying Betsy. I get a kick out of this.
I tend to be at Crowns whereeveryone is a medium, so I
stay quiet. It's so funny becauseI was Today's Wednesday, Monday night,
(37:35):
I had a private event and Iwas mentioning that very same thing to someone
at the event where I was at. I said, you know, when
someone finds out your medium, allof a sudden, everybody's a medium,
you know, they all have somekind of ability, and they say,
look, we all have a littlesomething. I get it, you know.
But it is kind of funny howthat does happen. It brings out
(37:57):
already brings out the other side wherethey're just completely skeptical and they don't believe
in anything. And I've been toldthat too. I don't believe in any
of that's some people. Some peoplethey're just a lad a minute that nothing
exists. They'll actually get kind ofmean with you too. I've had that
happen. That's you know, everyoneis entitled to believe what they want to
believe. I just feel differently,you know, I think differently. Gosh,
(38:21):
what would somebody get hateful though,I don't understand that, well,
I don't understand that anyway. Youknow. Yeah, it's more of you
know, they're angry about who knowslife. I guess, Hello, Anito,
welcome to the show. Yeah,so it's kind of it's strange.
(38:44):
It is, it's it's strange andI just well, and I was going
to say too, you know,depending on where you go in the world.
Like so, so I've got friendsover in the UK and they have
told me that a team paranormal teamis not a team worth its weight if
it does not have a medium.Wow, that's how. That's how.
(39:09):
And I was kicked off a teamfor being a medium right here in New
England, so you know, Imean, you know, that's just how
it is. And well, youknow, that's all right. They missed
my humor, I'm sure you know, maybe not, I don't know,
but it is kind of funny,you know. I I don't really understand
(39:30):
what what you know, why peoplehave such pushback on it, but you
know, and then you know,human emotion gets into it and you need
deal with jealousy, any deal withall the other emotions that human beings have.
And some of it's pretty and someoneit's not. And so that's just
how it is. But I justdo my thing, and I like,
(39:52):
that's going back to you said likeall the before. You know, there's
a room full of mediums. Ithink you have to be careful there too,
because the term medium and I don'teven like using that word anymore because
of this, it's become such acarny thing. Now it's almost like the
old gypsy. Yeah, you justhave so many people that are just out
(40:13):
there, like like Joe said,are just paying a shingle to try to
make a dollar. And yes,you know, people get hurt and and
you see these people on television justnot doing what they're supposed to be doing,
and it's a racket. I hear. Yes, I was contacted by
(40:34):
someone who wanted me to work fora nine hundred or eight hundred number thing
medium dial a medium so much aminute. I'm like, that is not
me. I don't need that.That's crazy. Well I was invited to
join the Illuminati, so were youreally? Oh that's a today. Yeah,
(40:54):
it's just a cost to join that. I don't know. I never
get that far. That's pretty cool, huh, the Illuminati. Yeah,
find out what your credentials are andwhat you have to do to be what
you have to do to join theIlluminati. That's pretty awesome. Official bitch.
(41:14):
I mean that's about my only title, so excuse me, excuse me,
that's my title. You're the bitch, I'm the witch. You could
be the bitch. Yeah, yeah, I thought you had to be like
Reptalian to be part of the illumine? Aren't they Reptalian or something? Eddy,
I don't know. I just Ilaugh at those Grand Rising emails or
(41:37):
messages I get. I just startimmediately start laughing. And do I want
to screw with them or not?You know, Oh my god, Betsy
got an invitation of the Illuminati aswell. I don't know what am I
doing wrong? You know, nexttime I'll say thanks, I'm not interested.
However, my friend Scott, well, you know, you start to
(41:58):
feel left out. Remember this isterrible, but you know, I went
through from third grade to high school. Right through high school. I was
in Catholic school and I went youknow, I remember all that stuff going
on with the Boston diasis and allthat bologne, and I don't want to
get into that, but so manypeople were coming out and saying, oh,
you know this one I was propositionedand this happened to me, and
(42:21):
this happened to me, And I'mlike, well, jeezu, was I
the ugly kid on the block becausenothing happened to me. Nothing happened to
me, I know. I mean, like you just have to get a
complex after a while, Like whatnobody wanted me. I was like,
I am taking this as a personalmission. I am going to get you
an invitation to join the Illuminatis.All right, there you go, because
(42:42):
you know, I'll be a littlebit. Are those those people that worship
that owl thing in the middle ofthe Redwood forty? Do you know what
I'm talking about? Where all thepresidents go And there's like a giant to
do with the presidents and Dan Brown, Da Vinci Co, the Illuminati,
all that stuff. Yeah, they'reall supposed to be connected. I don't
know how. And then they putthe Masonic temple in there somehow too,
(43:05):
And it's just I don't know.I like the guys big Hair talk about
all that stuff are Illuminati, Idon't think so. I don't know.
You always hear about the Masons andbut I don't know connections. But I
wouldn't even begin to talk about somethinglike that because I could google it.
(43:28):
In the first phrase, it's goingto be beyond more than I know.
Let's do a show on the Illuminati. I'm going to ask you to do
your homework. You can join,and then we're going to talk about it.
What's that Make sure you find outwhat we have to do to join.
All right, I'll film the initiationand we'll do this little underground documentary.
(43:54):
That sounds awesome. Well, youknow, see, we'll have you
cupboard. She can do that documentaryfor you. So we should the three
of us should like team up.We'll go on to cover. We can
all wear black hoods. Sounds likea plan. That's a Tuesday night in
my place right. According to afamily member, the illuminating did start with
(44:15):
a member of Yeah, I've heardI've heard connections. What's that. I've
heard connections, But I don't know. I'm usually maybe a cocktail or three
in. But when I start watchingall that, maybe maybe not. I
(44:39):
don't know. It's I find itfascinating, but I still don't you know,
I don't know anything. Really,I don't know anything about it,
but I feel like it's all fascinatingwhen I read about that stuff. I
just don't know how much of itreally exists, you know what I mean?
Like I knew people who were Masons, and I kept trying to get
them to give me the secret handshake, and I never get that. You
(45:00):
know, Oh, they'd have tobe killed or something if they give that.
I think they would have to bekilled if you got the secret handshake.
You know, remember Fred Flintstone,you know, like the Grand Pool
Bar and they do the whole thing, you know, yeah, that kind
of thing. Oh, our tinfoilhats got real tight, real quick.
(45:25):
And that's where you go from mediumshipto This is what happens when you have
good guests and they just chat.See hope you have to go to the
what does it say? You haveto go to the Bohemian Grove? Okay,
Oh that's yes, that's what Iwas thinking of. Have you heard
of that place? No, what'sthat? Well? Okay, so I
think it's out in Washington or Oregonor somewhere with there's redwoods and it's a
(45:50):
grove of trees and everybody goes hereto do really weird stuff. There's like
this giant twelve foot stone owl andit's right there in your like a stage,
and like they do, like thepresidents and stuff will go there and
do ritualistic stuff. It's really weird, really really weird. Really Oh,
I've got to google that now.And it's so secret, like you'll never
(46:12):
get in there because it's arded allthe time, and but presidents and stuff
will go there and stay and it'slike, yeah, it's like a camp
and summer camp, like their versionof Harry Potter type stuff. I mean,
I don't know, but if AlexJones went in, it must be
real. So I'm going to haveto go check that out this place and
(46:36):
it's like, yeah, there's likefire around this owl. Yes, there
it is. There's a picture ofit. Look at it. Oh my
gosh, is that Bill in thebackground that just put that up? Who
how did that get there? Oh? But that thank you Bill week week?
That's Bill? Thank you Bill?Yes, he says, well,
because if that's spirit doing that,that's pretty cool. I've never had them
(46:59):
like work on the show before.I thought that was you doing it.
So the presidents of the United Statesare all members of whatever goes on there,
and they go there I don't andto do what. I don't know,
but they're they pray to the houror something and some kind of ritual
(47:21):
goes on, and who knows,they could be sacrificing somebody who I'm going
down tonight. I mean, ifhe wos he's going to break a hip
and it's all over, he's goingout there in I don't think so it's
naked under the moon. She said, this show is going places. Let
(47:42):
me tell you we're having a goodtime tonight. We only do that on
Saturdays, so that's night. Yeah. Oh my god. They sacrifice an
effigy. I don't know. Ithink it's I think it's fascinating. We're
gonna have to find out about that. I think you know about the Mohemian
Grove and tell me. There isa whole Reddit thread on that. I
(48:12):
think it's Washington or Oregon, oneof the two. Oh, Washington State,
not Washington d C. Washington Statebecause it's it's it's actually a really
pretty place. If you watched thevideos. There's like big giant redwoods all
around here. It's really Okay,I need to introduce you to someone because
we're getting down to the last coupleof minutes. He's been bugging me to
be on my show, but I'mfinally doing it from my house tonight.
(48:34):
You can come over here and sayhi, this is Nicholas Hichol. Is
okay? Are you happy? Nowyou can tell your friends you've been on
a podcast. Yeah, it's official, all right, Yeah, you're famous.
Okay, going over there and I'llbe with you a little bit,
all right, I want to beHe looks like he's grown a little bit.
(48:59):
He's grown a lot. He's goingto be eleven. I can't even
believe it. That's what happened.I know, mine got big and flew
away. Yeah, I'm telling youit's crazy. So we only have we
only have about four minutes left,four and a half minutes left. Tell
(49:19):
me a little bit more about yourpodcast where people can find it, and
your books, because people might wantthat to tell us about your books and
your podcast, and so I dohave two books that are out. You
can find them at Thomas dot org. You can find everything from c.
Thomas dot org. The new podcast, The Gateway. I haven't posted that
just yet on my on my socialmedia or anything like. Well, it
(49:43):
is on my social media, it'snot on my website yet, but I'm
going to get that connected sometime thisweek, so you'll be able to find
it from there as well. Butyeah, everything's on cl Thomas dot org.
Okay, cool. And what theone of the books, One's Dancing
with Demons, that's the new one. Dancing with demon is my personal story.
So, like I've said, Igrew up with the paranormal, but
(50:05):
I was not afraid of it.You know how most people who've had paranormal
experiences as a young child, theysay that they were scared and everything.
That wasn't the case with me.The first time I was scared of it
was when I lived in a hauntedhouse in Nashville, and so that's what
that story is. And it wasa very negative haunting. There was a
lot of stuff that went on.I don't really want to go into too
(50:28):
much detail about what was going onin the house, but it was a
pretty bad haunting and it just buta good thing did come out of it.
I mean, once I came out, I was reintroduced to the spirit
world and I was back on thisjourney again to working with spirit, and
(50:49):
I don't know, it's been quitea journey. Good for you, And
I'm glad to call you my friend, even though we don't talk all the
time. And she thinks sometimes Ihate or like I did, but I
didn't. It's just me being caughtup in light. But I am so
glad that you are my friend andwe get to talk like this and I
get to be on your show,the new One, The Gateway, that's
December twenty sixth, so look forus there. I want to just share
(51:14):
too real quickly because I see Bill'sbeen posting some things in the chat here.
Tonight is the Geminids meteor shower.It peaks tonight, so if you
go outside, you're going to seeup to like one hundred meti years an
hour, So we'll have to gooutside and take a peek. He's going
to be streaming it right afterwards.What is this? Bill Boberchristoperno, Tony
(51:35):
Martinez, Michael Schratt, and LindaZimerman on with me at nine pm tonight
and they're going to be streaming it. Let's see Skywatcher gaming on YouTube,
So if you go to YouTube buta Skywatcher gaming, it's going to be
there. Betsy, thanks for takingpart in the conversation tonight. We all
love cl She's great, and Ihope that people will check out her books
(51:59):
and check out her podcasts and allthe other great things she's got going on.
And I hope you'll hang on afterthe show because I do want to
chat with you for just a minute. I know we took away your gym
time and everything, and I appreciatethat. I'm very grateful that you came
on and joined us tonight. Yeah, and thanks to everyone for being such
(52:20):
a receptive audience. Mary and allthe others with us tonight, and our
producer Bill who's backstage keeping everything running. I appreciate all of you. So
we have a minute and a half. Anything else you want to share before
we call it a night. Idon't have anything. Nope, you can.
If anyone has questions, they canreach out to me. I'll always
(52:42):
answer email or messages or whatever itis on on Instagram and Facebook. Instagram
and Facebook. Christine Thomas, Yesat Thomas. Yeah, yeah Thomas.
People have a hard time for Yeah, okay, cool beans. That's good.
(53:02):
And Christina is so good to seeyou as always. I'm glad to
see you all decked out for theholiday. I did all of this for
you. I think I think you'refire off. But it kind of frozen.
But yeah, that's all right,that's all right, it's a little
frozen. What is that behind you? Cel? Is that a is that
(53:23):
towels from your bathroom? That's youmade figure? Or what is that thing
back there? So that is actuallythat's the theme photo that I use for
Small Town Tales podcast. Gotcha.But it's a talk and it's of this
art installation out Hang on. Weare coming to a hard end right here
(53:43):
in three minutes. Have a greatnight, everybody. Thank you so much
for joining us, and we'll seeyou next time. Good night everyone.
You've been listening to The Paranormal Projectradio show with Scott Island and Christina Bowen.
Be sure to subscribe so you don'tmiss the next episode. While you're
(54:05):
there, leave us a rating andreview. We'll be back next week with
more exciting guests.
The Paranormal Project Radio Show carry yourhosts, Scott Allen and Christina Bowen.
(00:43):
Hello everyone, and welcome to anotheredition of The Paranormal Project Radio Show.
Happy Wednesday to everybody. How areyou Christina this week? I am fabulous.
How nice to see you all deckedout in your gay apparel and you'll
tie whatever you want to. Hello, Adam, Megan, good to see
you. Yeah, it's like it'sChristmas in a couple of weeks. I
(01:04):
can't believe, not even a coupleof weeks. Wow, it's the craziest
thing. It's the craziest thing.So yeah, I don't know if you
saw much post earlier today, butit's like if I I don't even know
what I've ordered anymore, Amazon coulddeliver a goat tomorrow and I would not
be surprised. Yeah, would thatbe for your dad? I'm telling you
(01:27):
one thing you and I are goodat, besides talking to the dead and
putting hexes on people, is puntingat the last minute. So our guest
this week was Katie Katie Elizabeth,who is a champ expert. Uh,
you know Lake Champlain Champion is theis the sea monster there that they are?
The Lake Monster, I guess,and uh, she had a last
(01:51):
minute conflict. So thankfully we haveanother guest tonight that we're going to tag
that I'm we're going to talk tothat. I'm equally as excited about.
C. L. Thomas is anauthor. She was on our show last
year. She has a small TownTales podcast, but she's a brand new
podcast, and we're gonna talk aboutthat tonight. It's called The Gateway,
(02:13):
and we are going to speak withher about her podcast and all the stuff
she's got going on, because shelives a very interesting, interesting life.
Adam Bacon says, monster Hunter.Who are you the monster hunter? Who's
Oh you're talking about Katie Elizabeth.Yeah, she's not with us tonight,
Adam, she's not with us tonight. I don't know. She had a
conflict that came up at the lastminute. So but we do have cl
(02:35):
Thomas. I'm going to bring herout here in just a second and let's
see hello, my friend. Howare you good to see you again.
It's nice to see you too.Thank you for having me on your show,
and thank you for not getting tothe gym in time. This is
really great. Suffer greatly for it. Just so you know. Well,
you know that's all right. Iwas I was texting you, and before
(02:59):
I heard from you, I wastexting Christina and I said, like,
think about something to talk about becausewe need to change gears at about two
seconds. That I hate that whenthat happens. So, but you've got
some stuff going on. So you'velaunched your new book. I have Dancing
with Demons, and you're still doingSmall Town Tales, which I was on
(03:20):
last year, and you were onwith us last year, and now you've
got The Gateway and I'm going tobe on with you the day after Christmas.
So people are just sitting around lookingfor something to do we can talk
with. What's the difference between smallTown Tales and the new one Gateway.
Well, the small Town Tales podcastwas it started out as a paranormal podcast,
(03:43):
but it's really more about small townlegends and things pertaining to the paranormal,
and that's where you're you know,goes to paranormal investigators and maybe stuff
about Bigfoot would fit on that one. But it wasn't what I really wanted
in a podcast. I was lookingmore for something to stream and talk to
(04:08):
guests about metaphysical healing. Mediumship,spirit talk, kind of topics and just
you know, spirit communication, allthings mediumship pretty much. And so I
created the new show The Gateway.And there's a woman named Michelle de Rocher.
(04:29):
She used to be on a coupleof those paranormal shows she has.
I think it is called the OuterRealms Radio Show. There was an opening
that came up on the one ohseven point seven FM station, and she
asked me to do a new showwith her, or not with her,
but just to do a new showin that spot. So I took this
(04:51):
spot. Now, where is that? Is that out in your area?
No, it's actually broadcast out inNew Orleans, it is Okay, it's
audio only on the radio US.You're everywhere else, right, You're right?
Yeah, So they put it on. I'm not sure exactly how it
works, but I know it's goingout on Roku and a bunch of other
(05:15):
different places. Cool. Now Rokuhas podcasts. I didn't even know that
street. Yeah, it's a radioshow. How cool? Is that?
Good for you? Good for you? So? So have you found I
mean, I know you're kind ofbooked up, right, You've got you've
got a bunch of guests already plannedout, But are they all mediums or
(05:36):
are they like large as like No. So there's a lot of different people
that are coming on the show.So I'll probably I'm going to have you
guys on, sure, but there'sa lot of different people that are coming
on. There's a demonologist that's goingto speak next week, and nice a
permimal investigator on last week. Butit's you know, it's a direction I
(06:00):
really want to take the show.If I do do paranormal investigators, I
want to take it deeper. Andwhat's normally talked about, right, no
normal field. Now you have allof these groups and their primary focus is
to collect data and then decide ifit exists or not. And to me,
(06:20):
this stuff exists. So what's thenext step. And that's where I'm
trying to go with the Gateway podcast. I like that. Yeah, I
do too. And I think thatyou know, and I know we're going
to talk about this a little biton your show, but I think you
know, the medium ship it's notall about it's not all about doing a
reading at a site, but it'sit's using that whatever you want to call
(06:45):
it, that that intuition to beable to sense what you find and how
can we how can we back itup with equipment potentially, you know,
just just or vice versa. Youknow. But I think that I think
there's definitely a place for the mediumin the paranormal. Yeah, and the
(07:08):
mediumship doesn't have to be paranormal either. I mean, you know, you've
got a lot of other opportunities too. I mean there's there's mediums that don't
do anything with the paranormal, that'sright exactly. I think a mediumship opens
that door to serve spirit and tohelp somebody actually heal. So there's a
whole other part of it that Ithink the paranormal world kind of misses.
(07:30):
I love that outlook. I dotoo. I think that and you know,
a lot of people may not knowthis, but you are developing your
own gifts that you have. Andyou know, we've talked about this in
the past over the last you know, year or two, and I think
that the more you embrace it,the stronger it is. Would you say
(07:51):
for yourself, because I know you'reseeing some changes and how you get things
and how you are able to deliver, so you actually turt and beyond.
To Joseph Schiel, he's an Idon't know if he's famous, but he's
a pretty well known medium and he'sknown for his spirit art, and so
(08:13):
I've taken a class or two withhim, and it turns out he's a
really good spirit artist and so I'mtraining under him for spirit art. Can
you train? What spirit art is? For those a don't know? Okay,
So there's two different things with thespirit art and the paranormal crowd seems
(08:35):
to take it as you sit withthe client and you kind of sketch out
maybe their spirit guide or something alittle more abstract, whereas I'm taking it
into more of an evidential mediumship sideto where you're actually drawling the person.
Like I'm able to show somebody theimage and it looks like Grandma or whoever,
(09:00):
whoever the spirit is that that's connectingat that time. So there's some
kind of evidential back or evidence towhat I'm trying to sketch out and whatever
spirit that I'm trying to connect with, you know. And it's funny because
I feel like I've asked Joe this. So Joe, for those of you
who don't know, Joe Shield ispretty famous within the world of mediums.
(09:24):
I mean, he's taught at theArthur Finlay College in the UK. But
he's also now. He doesn't likethe word pastor, but he is.
He's pastor of the Journey Within Churchin Pompeno Lakes, New Jersey. And
the Journey Within is really the onlySpiritualist church in the United States directly linked
back to the UK. Others cancall themselves Spiritualist churches, but they're not.
(09:48):
They don't have that tie to theArthur Findley Spiritualist Union, which is
in the UK. He he isa fantastic medium. He actually mentors me,
which I love. But he's he'sa great spirit artist. And I
asked him one day, I said, you know, I think that I
(10:09):
don't get I don't always see spiritas spirit is. I see spirit as
I need to see them to understandwhat they're trying to say to me.
And so I don't know that Icould ever do spirit art. Besides the
fact that I told you yesterday,you know, Grandma would have to look
like a stick figure in order forsomeone's recognize her in real life. I
(10:31):
don't think I have that talent.But but seriously, I think that I
don't know if I get it thesame way. And we don't always all
get it the same way. Youknow, how I get messages is not
how you're going to get them,and yours comes out in a very different
way. And I think that's whatmakes it so nice. You know,
(10:52):
You're absolutely right. I'm very visional. I'm very visual anyway. You know,
I have a photography background on thepage. I do all of this
artistic stuff, so I'm very visual. So it's like we talked about this
too, Scott. A lot oftimes when the spirit is coming through,
I don't always hear them. Idon't know, Scott, you said you
(11:15):
do. I usually see it inimages. It's almost like flashes. So
I'll be able to stretch out whatdon't hear like like here, Like I
don't hear like I hear you,but it will flash into my mind like
immediately, oh oh, well,like today, you know, I was
doing a reading and like, ohoh rot Rose Rose? Who the name
(11:37):
Rose? Oh? Yeah, that'sso and so sometimes it comes to me
like that, So I say here, but I don't know if I hear
here. I don't think I hearit outside of my body. I think
I just get it, and sometimesit'll come out on paper. So I've
I've gotten the habit of like carryinga piece of paper with me and I
doodle and sometimes I'll look back andoh, why did I write that?
(11:58):
Or or this doodle will look likea word that I hadn't even comprehended,
like, oh, does that meananything to you? And it does.
It'll come out on the paper.So stuff like that will happen. But
you know, other people, they'reall clear, audient, they'll hear everything.
I'm just not that person, youknow me. It's a lot of
(12:18):
visual, but not as much asit used to be. And I feel
like you'll find too, the moreyou do this, the more fine tune
that will actually get for you.I've had some really good results so far.
Some of the clients that I've had. You know, I don't do
readings on the normal stuff, solike, I don't do it for money
(12:39):
or anything like that. But theclients I have had, I've sketched them
out and sent them the drawing,and a lot of them will call me
and they're just bawling because it's thestuff that comes out in them. One
lady in particular, it was ofa really good friend of hers who committed
(13:01):
suicide just recently, and what Isaw was him in like a full hunter
suit. He had like a bunchof antlers around him. There was a
bunch of symbolism that sometimes I getworse, like you're saying, Like for
this one, I had warlock,so I didn't know what that meant,
(13:22):
right, So I just would sketchit on the side and just leave it
there. But when I sent itto her if she called me and I
guess he was a taxon ormist,which is where all the animal images were
coming from, and she knew exactlywho this guy was. It was crazy.
I think I even got the nameon that one. But it's funny
(13:43):
because I feel like with yours,and you know you've you've done spirit out
for me, I feel like theentire reading is in the painting. It's
not like you just draw Grandma,you know what I mean? Like Grandma
might be there, but it's notjust that. It's the symbolism of I
don't know I'm making this up,but the symbolism of where she is in
(14:03):
the photo and the cabin with thebrook and the birds and the trees and
the little messages that pop up throughit. And I think that that's what
I think is so cool, becauseeven Joe, who does spuridite, doesn't
draw like that. He'll draw thepeople and sometimes he'll draw three, four,
five people that'll all show up inthe same photo, but it's not
(14:24):
the cabin and the fire and thebirds and you know, all those sort
of things. So I it's greathow we all get something just a little
bit different. It's really interesting,just a whole field of mediumship. You
start to meet other people that haveabilities like this too, and you're right.
They all come out in different ways. Some people will smell things and
(14:46):
that's how they're able. I'm notsure exactly how that works, but they'll
smell roses or something that belonged tothe client's mom. I don't know.
That's very strong. And I'll tellyou something strange about that too. Happened
to me often, but it doeshappen from time to time. Only once
have I smelled like a perfume thatwas so strong. It was in the
(15:07):
room with me and I wasn't ina reading. This is when I was
unfolding and everything was like ramped upto you know, the nth degree.
But sometimes in a reading I'll getlike cigarette smoke, or perfume or lilacs
or whatever it is. But it'snot in the room. It's like in
your memory that you can smell.I don't know how to even explain that
(15:31):
to you. I mean, Christina, now you you probably have experienced that
at some point, not in amedium. You actually quite quite regularly actually,
And I've said I am not amedium, and I don't ever want
to be. I don't know howy'all do it. I really don't.
But that I've had is I routinely, almost nine o'clock every evening, cigarette
(15:58):
smoke comes through the living room.Yeah, I mean, I feel like
I know who it is, andyou know, I welcome them, but
yeah, it's pretty odd. Butfor me, it it is like in
the room. And many times otherpeople can smell it too, So I'll
just be sitting there and like,can y'all not smell that? Yeah?
(16:22):
And almost always they're like, yeah, I thought somebody was, you know,
back there, No nobody's here,so well, you know, and
I'll say this too, and Ithink, I don't know what you think,
Crystal, but see, but Ifeel like, you know, you
because you're not a medium, youneed to have it a little more in
your face, which means it wouldbe in the room and just like you've
(16:44):
gotta gotta be you know. Ithink the more you do this, the
more subtle it becomes. And tobe honest, I mean, I wish
it was as full blown open asit was when it first happened, because
man, it was like watching amovie play out and you're getting sounds and
smells and and it's not like thatanymore. A lot of it is like
mind implantation, Like they just stickit in your mind like a memory you
(17:07):
used to have, Like if youthink of your grandmother's perfume as an example,
you can almost smell it by rememberingit. But it's not. It's
when it comes unexpected, like likeoh, oh that's her, that's her,
you know what I mean. It'snot like you were thinking. That's
kind of what it like. Whatit's like when it's when it's subtle,
(17:32):
and I think that that's, uh, that's how we get it. The
more we do it. Yeah,oh I'm sorry, go ahead. It's
it's kind of like an instrument whereyou have to practice as well to get
better at it. It is.Did you learn that from Jill? Yeah?
I did. That's a matter offact, because he says that all
(17:53):
the time he plays the guitar,but he says, that's how we are,
and and it's like you are theinstrument and and they're there to play
you. I mean in that way, you know, use me, play
me, use use my thoughts,use my emotions. Anything that that's in
my memory or in my reality youcan use. And I feel like the
(18:15):
readings get so much better that waythey do. And the second part of
that too, that he teaches isyou kind of have to learn a whole
spirit language almost like what does colorsmean? What does numbers mean? Because
some people, like me, I'mvery visual, I'll see like for something,
and of course that means something.You know, certain colors for some
(18:38):
people will mean anger or whatever itis. Emotion. There's a lot to
it. But you know what,you know what those y'all, I feel
like, let's just use a color, let's just use magenta. I don't
know, for lack of another word, it may elicit a feeling in you,
(19:00):
but it may be very different thanthe feeling that that Christina gets when
she sees it, or that Iget when I see it. So it
isn't it's we all have our ownkind of like library, for lack of
a better words, library is soI don't think that's perfect. Yeah,
you know that we use I mean, they'll show me, as an example,
someone that's been on blood thinners.Okay, they'll show me like an
(19:23):
arm with all like bruise marks.I'll get that, and I'm like,
oh, like they were on bloodthinners. It doesn't mean that they had
black and blue marks. No,it doesn't mean that. It's just that's
how they're showing it to me.But you might get it totally different.
You might see I don't know somethingtotally different, but it means the same
thing. And it's like we allspeak a different language and they know what
(19:45):
that language is and they can communicatewith it, which is really cool.
It is really cool. I'm gladthey don't speak to me in like Russian
or anything, because I'd missed thewhole thing. I wouldn't get anything I
was was I going to say,Oh, I always tell people too,
like if it hasn't entered into mymemory or into my imagination, like they
(20:07):
can't use it. So if yourgrandmother was from India and she had this
first name that was twenty six letterslong. Guess what, I'm not getting
it in a reading. It's nevergoing to happen because she can't talk to
me in English and say this ishow it's pronounced. Here you go.
They have to give me a wayto get it. And that's how it
(20:29):
is with anything, you know.So I, you know, I feel
like the more we build that libraryfor ourselves, the better it is.
You know, like, Okay,you need to show me when when you
want to talk to me about anarmy person, then you need to show
me this. If you want toshow me that they were an accountant,
I need to see this and writeit down and make a library of symbols
(20:52):
that you need that you can recognizeso that when you see it, you
know what it means and they'll useit. Has that been your experience to
you? Yes, that that's kindof what I'm referring to when I say
spirit language. So you kind ofhave to learn. You have to.
You have to, like Joe says, you have to know yourself. You
have to learn the spirit art andhow the how the spiritual connecting with you
(21:17):
in order to interpret the message.And that's something I struggled with for a
while because I am so visual.It was kind of hard. I think
we've discussed this in the past.It's like I'll see something, but I
don't know how to relay the message. You know, what does it mean?
Yeah? Are you trying to tellme? Yeah? Exactly, exactly.
(21:38):
And sometimes they'll play with you,you know you think it means.
Well. Here's an example. Thishas happened to me twice in probably the
last couple of months. I hada reading just before we get on the
call today, and I have thiswoman that's in front of me, and
I can see how she's dressed likeshe's going out and giving me all kinds
of things about how she passed,and you know, four or five six
(22:03):
things that that that they could relateto. Except she said to me,
I understand all of it. Exceptit's not a woman. It's a man.
And I said, that's really oddbecause I'm definitely seeing a woman.
M h. So then I said, is there a man here with that
same thing? And there was aman there, and it was almost like
(22:26):
a joke, like, oh,playing with you. The woman was the
mother. The woman the man's mother, and she made herself known at that
point. So I'm seeing her,but he's the one that's talking. He's
the one that's giving me the information, like implanting it. So I've only
(22:47):
had that happen twice. And it'sthe weirdest thing because usually I can figure
out who's the male and who's thefemale. And it was so strange that
I was getting. And it wasfunny because I went into the reading and
I thought I'd bet a man anda woman here, but the woman is
talking louder. I could, butit was because she was the visual.
I couldn't see him. She wasthe visual. He was the voice.
(23:07):
That's really interesting. Yeah, Imean, so, look, I don't
understand any of this stuff and whywe get what we get. I don't
understand it. Yeah I don't either. It makes sense to you, It
doesn't, right, It just happens. It really doesn't. Yeah. Somebody
asked me one time, well what'sit like and how does it work?
And I'm just like, I haveno idea. I don't know. It
(23:27):
just happens. Figure it out,let me know. Yeah. Well,
I did a house event the othernight and the guy says, well,
I'm a skeptic. I'm like,good me too, because I don't I
really am you know. This iswhy I'm never going to tell you what
your spirit guy's names are, becausethat's about to boloney. I mean,
you know they really have a name. Maybe they do, but how can
you prove it. I only wantto do things. We talk about the
(23:48):
authenticity of what we do. Ionly want to give you what you can
understand and validate. You know what, I it's pointless, It's true.
I'm trying so hard not to sayZonar. Remember who was the robot on
Lost in Space? It's so that'swhat I feel like. I don't even
(24:11):
know. It does mean huh robot, Robbie the robot. It does mean
something, and I can't think.I looked it up. It's something KI
symbol. What it is? It'ssomething to do with KI. Do you
know that? Do you know?Do you know? Did you know that
term? Yeah? What does itmean? What's it mean? I can't
(24:33):
answer you. I'd have to googleit just so you don't. You don't
know what it is. I've heardof it and I recall it in my
classes and everything, but it's nota piece that I kept. It's not
something to do with Raki. That'sall I know. Yeah, I can
look it up. Real quick whenyou when you put the rake on them,
you know, I mean, nowyou know when you works on and
(25:00):
they still zonar go with the grain. Yeah, So it is not straight
reiki. So it says zonar isthe first symbol you learn at the first
level of reiki. It can helpheal deep emotional scars from the present as
well as the past. Okay,so there you go. And what you
(25:26):
say, you don't do straight yankeestraight? Yekey, No, I'm I'm
I describe what I do is moreenergy work. Reki is a part of
it, but it's just a partof it, gotcha. So it's not
straky, is it geeky? Whateverit is, we do it kids and
(25:49):
animals anyway, Sorry to go downthat path. That's all right, that's
all right. I see it,I see it, I get it,
aways get a little pg and thenhave to get right back to it.
So we do we do. Yeah, But I'm as fascinated by it as
(26:11):
I know you are and as otherpeople are, and I don't I'm starting
to understand what I need to doto do it better, but I still
don't know why it works. Yeah, I think that's you know, it's
a universal question. Right, it'sone of those questions that humanity will never
(26:33):
be able to answer that it.You know, we may not, we're
probably not supposed to know that,you know. But a statement and why
we're continuing to seek we always wantto answer. I mean as part of
it. You know, we're allhere anyway, as you know, to
grow, to learn the whole purposeof life. Right, we wouldn't grow
(26:56):
very much or seek very much ifwe knew everything. And I think that
it's one of those things that keepus striving and moving forward, you know.
So this is my theory on it. Well, and I don't think
it matters. I mean, Ithink you get what you get, and
we do what we do. Andsome people are called to, you know,
be a physician, some people arecalled to other things. This is
(27:21):
it was. It was a littlemore less subtle than a phone call.
It was a little bit more youknow, intense, but it's it's still
a calling. I mean, weget what they get. And I and
I think, I don't know aboutyou, but I feel like the reason
we put it off so much,you know, like I doing this kind
of thing was because I am askeptic deep down, Like it has to
be real to me. It hasto feel real, like I could never
(27:45):
do this if I felt like Iwas making it up right and I needed
it proven to me. I neededit proven to me a couple of years
just to say, okay, well, you know consistently these things that I
feel, think whatever that pop intomy head, people understand. And that's
I think. You know, ittook me. It took me that that
(28:07):
that length of time just to understandit. You know, it's just Betsy
Brown Williams. Hi, Betsy,how are you? Hi? Welcome,
Welcome to the show. Betsy Williamsis such a sweetheart. You know her?
I know her now. I wantto know how she found you so
quickly. Oh it's kind of strange, right, how she found me on
(28:32):
here, on here, now onhere, like all of a sudden you
know her because I don't. Idon't know Betsy, and you don't know
Betsy. I mean, if youknew Betsy like I know Betsy. Hey,
Chris, Jesus gotta have a grating Scott. No. I just
think it's great because you weren't ourscheduled guest, and all of a sudden,
here you are, and there sheis. So that's that's what I
(28:53):
was saying. I thought it waskind of funny. It's a spirit thing.
It's thing. I love it whenstuff like that happens. If you
were just talking about needing reinforcement andquestioning the messages that you were receiving,
and I love it when little littlethings like this that are just gentle reminders.
(29:15):
You just said it's a spirit thing. It is a spirit thing.
Definitely is a spirit thing. Spiritthing. Yeah, there it is.
And that's the kind of stuff thathappens. But you know, those are
the things that I think happen toa lot of people and they just don't
notice it. They don't have adeja vou or any of that kind of
stuff. It's part of it.Yep. It's kind of like it's kind
(29:40):
of like paranormal investigating. You know, you go into a place and everyone's
expecting the Hollywood results of go screamingin your face and shadows and all that
kind of stuff. Yeah, butreally what happens is the activity nine out
of ten times is very very subtle. So if you you are not taking
(30:00):
it in, if you're not payingattention, you can miss it easily.
If you're too busy looking at thegadgets and all that kind of stuff.
You're going to miss it. AndI think working with spirit is almost the
same thing. The message you getit like subtly, you know, in
your everyday life. It could besomething as simple as getting a message from
(30:22):
seeing a feather on the ground.I've heard people seeing pennies mean something.
It could be a billboard advertising Nike, but just the I don't know,
live bigger could really be a turningpoint for somebody out there. So I
agree, I agree, and don'tyou think too. It's the same for
(30:45):
us. And this is why peoplesay, oh, do you pick up
stuff when you're in the grocery store? No, because I'm just doing my
shopping and my mind isn't there,you know what I mean. I think
if you don't take the time toquiet yourself down, you miss it exactly.
You have to pay attention to it. I grew up with the paranormal.
I've been seeing or having paranormal experiencesthis like age two and three,
(31:10):
So it's been a long thing.It's been a lifelong journey for me.
But there was a time in highschool and in college. I was in
med school for a while where allI wanted to do was focus on school
and graduate because I wanted a doctorate. And I don't know that I didn't
(31:30):
see anything paranormal. It was likeit was forgotten, you know. I
just put that part of me awayand focused on other things. So if
you're not focusing on it, yeah, you're gonna not hear the messages.
No, And like I said,it's that way for all of us now.
Not everyone's going to be a medium, not everyone's going to be out
on stage, you know, sharingmessages with people, but we all have
(31:55):
that little nugget of intuition that willalert us to certain things. And if
you just take the time to quietand be aware that it exists and look
for it, you'll show up.It's very true spirit, Yes, absolutely
absolutely. I want to throw outthere too. Being open to spirit doesn't
(32:17):
mean you're going to get possessed everytime you go on it location. That's
just not the case. Thank youfor saying that. Yeah, it's only
happened to me three times. AndI can't tell you how many places I've
been to. Next time, Scotty, I'm not oping you next time.
I mean, it's so true though, you know, it really is so
(32:37):
true. And and and we don'tget possessed by doing readings either. You
know, you think you know anybad stuff coming in at all? Is
Betsy a medium? Yes, sheis. She's got Yeah. I was
getting just from her messages. Iwas getting some of that. That's that's
great, Betsy. You want tobe on a show. Hit me up
(33:00):
after the show. Yeah, yeah, I think that. I think it's
just fascinating really, and that's whyI like that you're doing, you know,
getting back to she says, I'velearned I just prefer to use myself
rather than the equipment. And youknow what I love. I love equipment,
(33:27):
but I love being able to seewhat I get, you know,
I love being able to see Ilike the cross validation. Yeah, it
is school methods. I mean dowsingrods is my go to. Yeah,
I mean that. I'll be honestwith you even that, though I sort
of get a little bit like I'drather trust Well, you're not a medium,
(33:52):
so I get it. I wantto trust myself even more than that
because I feel like, just youknow, you use your hands, you
go back or this way, youknow, and you're not even knowing it.
It'll change the way they bend andI try to hold them straight,
but then if I breathe, sometimesthey move, you know what I mean.
So I don't even know if Itrust that one hundred percent either.
(34:13):
And I use a pendulum sometimes becauseI think it's kind of cool, you
know, And I don't know ifyou do this, if you ever use
a pendulum seal I have. Ihave used one before. I do it
sometimes if I'm doing a reading,it's you know, out of sight of
the camera or whatever. But whenspirit comes, it spins a lot faster,
(34:34):
like you'll see it really starting tolike ramp up. You'll see the
energy start to go, and thenwhen it starts, it's not doing anything.
And I know I'm not sitting herespinning it like that. So well,
ultimately, all of those gadgets andthings, they're just tools to help
us focus and hear what's coming throughus. Anyhow, It just for me
(34:58):
because I'm not a medium, Ineed things like that right and help me
understand what's happening and try to getsome answers. So let me ask you
this l because you you know,obviously you've got two shows and you've got
you've interviewed a lot of different peoplefrom different walks of life, certainly within
the paranormal. What is your experience. Do people appreciate having mediums to work
(35:23):
with on an investigation in general ordo you find that they prefer to just
keep it like instruments only, youknow what I mean. Devices. It
kind of depends on who you're talkingto. Honestly, I know there's a
lot of teams out there who don'tbelieve the mediums. They feel like and
(35:44):
I could kind of see their pointwith this. They feel like the medium
might stir the investigation a certain waywith what they've said, and I've seen
that where you know they're looking fora particular thing based on what the mediums
head. But then on the flipside of it, too, I think
(36:05):
people are open. A lot ofpeople do appreciate mediums too. It just
depends on which team you're working withand what the people are expecting you could
be with. It seems to bemore with the people who are just so
out to approve if something exists ornot. And I think that, I
mean, let's be fair, there'slike forty four thousand investigating teams right now
(36:29):
out then you know they're all different, and some of them Let's face it,
they're out there to try to proveif there is life after after death,
not for like the world, butfor themselves, right, So I
don't it just depends on who itis and what they're expecting. Most of
them, Yeah, And I thinkmost of them believe that there is something
(36:52):
because they've they've caught a voice ona recorder or they've caught some other you
know. Uh, it's it's thevoices. You can't it's undeniable, you
know what I mean, answering youintelligently, and I mean, where's that
coming from? The EVPs are justthat's you know. I just love that
(37:12):
part of the paranormal. It's theEVPs that's my favorite because I'll be picking
something up on an investigation and allof a sudden you get that EVP and
it's just like I knew it.I knew there was a woman here.
You know, there's no denying Betsy. I get a kick out of this.
I tend to be at Crowns whereeveryone is a medium, so I
stay quiet. It's so funny becauseI was Today's Wednesday, Monday night,
(37:35):
I had a private event and Iwas mentioning that very same thing to someone
at the event where I was at. I said, you know, when
someone finds out your medium, allof a sudden, everybody's a medium,
you know, they all have somekind of ability, and they say,
look, we all have a littlesomething. I get it, you know.
But it is kind of funny howthat does happen. It brings out
(37:57):
already brings out the other side wherethey're just completely skeptical and they don't believe
in anything. And I've been toldthat too. I don't believe in any
of that's some people. Some peoplethey're just a lad a minute that nothing
exists. They'll actually get kind ofmean with you too. I've had that
happen. That's you know, everyoneis entitled to believe what they want to
believe. I just feel differently,you know, I think differently. Gosh,
(38:21):
what would somebody get hateful though,I don't understand that, well,
I don't understand that anyway. Youknow. Yeah, it's more of you
know, they're angry about who knowslife. I guess, Hello, Anito,
welcome to the show. Yeah,so it's kind of it's strange.
(38:44):
It is, it's it's strange andI just well, and I was going
to say too, you know,depending on where you go in the world.
Like so, so I've got friendsover in the UK and they have
told me that a team paranormal teamis not a team worth its weight if
it does not have a medium.Wow, that's how. That's how.
(39:09):
And I was kicked off a teamfor being a medium right here in New
England, so you know, Imean, you know, that's just how
it is. And well, youknow, that's all right. They missed
my humor, I'm sure you know, maybe not, I don't know,
but it is kind of funny,you know. I I don't really understand
(39:30):
what what you know, why peoplehave such pushback on it, but you
know, and then you know,human emotion gets into it and you need
deal with jealousy, any deal withall the other emotions that human beings have.
And some of it's pretty and someoneit's not. And so that's just
how it is. But I justdo my thing, and I like,
(39:52):
that's going back to you said likeall the before. You know, there's
a room full of mediums. Ithink you have to be careful there too,
because the term medium and I don'teven like using that word anymore because
of this, it's become such acarny thing. Now it's almost like the
old gypsy. Yeah, you justhave so many people that are just out
(40:13):
there, like like Joe said,are just paying a shingle to try to
make a dollar. And yes,you know, people get hurt and and
you see these people on television justnot doing what they're supposed to be doing,
and it's a racket. I hear. Yes, I was contacted by
(40:34):
someone who wanted me to work fora nine hundred or eight hundred number thing
medium dial a medium so much aminute. I'm like, that is not
me. I don't need that.That's crazy. Well I was invited to
join the Illuminati, so were youreally? Oh that's a today. Yeah,
(40:54):
it's just a cost to join that. I don't know. I never
get that far. That's pretty cool, huh, the Illuminati. Yeah,
find out what your credentials are andwhat you have to do to be what
you have to do to join theIlluminati. That's pretty awesome. Official bitch.
(41:14):
I mean that's about my only title, so excuse me, excuse me,
that's my title. You're the bitch, I'm the witch. You could
be the bitch. Yeah, yeah, I thought you had to be like
Reptalian to be part of the illumine? Aren't they Reptalian or something? Eddy,
I don't know. I just Ilaugh at those Grand Rising emails or
(41:37):
messages I get. I just startimmediately start laughing. And do I want
to screw with them or not?You know, Oh my god, Betsy
got an invitation of the Illuminati aswell. I don't know what am I
doing wrong? You know, nexttime I'll say thanks, I'm not interested.
However, my friend Scott, well, you know, you start to
(41:58):
feel left out. Remember this isterrible, but you know, I went
through from third grade to high school. Right through high school. I was
in Catholic school and I went youknow, I remember all that stuff going
on with the Boston diasis and allthat bologne, and I don't want to
get into that, but so manypeople were coming out and saying, oh,
you know this one I was propositionedand this happened to me, and
(42:21):
this happened to me, And I'mlike, well, jeezu, was I
the ugly kid on the block becausenothing happened to me. Nothing happened to
me, I know. I mean, like you just have to get a
complex after a while, Like whatnobody wanted me. I was like,
I am taking this as a personalmission. I am going to get you
an invitation to join the Illuminatis.All right, there you go, because
(42:42):
you know, I'll be a littlebit. Are those those people that worship
that owl thing in the middle ofthe Redwood forty? Do you know what
I'm talking about? Where all thepresidents go And there's like a giant to
do with the presidents and Dan Brown, Da Vinci Co, the Illuminati,
all that stuff. Yeah, they'reall supposed to be connected. I don't
know how. And then they putthe Masonic temple in there somehow too,
(43:05):
And it's just I don't know.I like the guys big Hair talk about
all that stuff are Illuminati, Idon't think so. I don't know.
You always hear about the Masons andbut I don't know connections. But I
wouldn't even begin to talk about somethinglike that because I could google it.
(43:28):
In the first phrase, it's goingto be beyond more than I know.
Let's do a show on the Illuminati. I'm going to ask you to do
your homework. You can join,and then we're going to talk about it.
What's that Make sure you find outwhat we have to do to join.
All right, I'll film the initiationand we'll do this little underground documentary.
(43:54):
That sounds awesome. Well, youknow, see, we'll have you
cupboard. She can do that documentaryfor you. So we should the three
of us should like team up.We'll go on to cover. We can
all wear black hoods. Sounds likea plan. That's a Tuesday night in
my place right. According to afamily member, the illuminating did start with
(44:15):
a member of Yeah, I've heardI've heard connections. What's that. I've
heard connections, But I don't know. I'm usually maybe a cocktail or three
in. But when I start watchingall that, maybe maybe not. I
(44:39):
don't know. It's I find itfascinating, but I still don't you know,
I don't know anything. Really,I don't know anything about it,
but I feel like it's all fascinatingwhen I read about that stuff. I
just don't know how much of itreally exists, you know what I mean?
Like I knew people who were Masons, and I kept trying to get
them to give me the secret handshake, and I never get that. You
(45:00):
know, Oh, they'd have tobe killed or something if they give that.
I think they would have to bekilled if you got the secret handshake.
You know, remember Fred Flintstone,you know, like the Grand Pool
Bar and they do the whole thing, you know, yeah, that kind
of thing. Oh, our tinfoilhats got real tight, real quick.
(45:25):
And that's where you go from mediumshipto This is what happens when you have
good guests and they just chat.See hope you have to go to the
what does it say? You haveto go to the Bohemian Grove? Okay,
Oh that's yes, that's what Iwas thinking of. Have you heard
of that place? No, what'sthat? Well? Okay, so I
think it's out in Washington or Oregonor somewhere with there's redwoods and it's a
(45:50):
grove of trees and everybody goes hereto do really weird stuff. There's like
this giant twelve foot stone owl andit's right there in your like a stage,
and like they do, like thepresidents and stuff will go there and
do ritualistic stuff. It's really weird, really really weird. Really Oh,
I've got to google that now.And it's so secret, like you'll never
(46:12):
get in there because it's arded allthe time, and but presidents and stuff
will go there and stay and it'slike, yeah, it's like a camp
and summer camp, like their versionof Harry Potter type stuff. I mean,
I don't know, but if AlexJones went in, it must be
real. So I'm going to haveto go check that out this place and
(46:36):
it's like, yeah, there's likefire around this owl. Yes, there
it is. There's a picture ofit. Look at it. Oh my
gosh, is that Bill in thebackground that just put that up? Who
how did that get there? Oh? But that thank you Bill week week?
That's Bill? Thank you Bill?Yes, he says, well,
because if that's spirit doing that,that's pretty cool. I've never had them
(46:59):
like work on the show before.I thought that was you doing it.
So the presidents of the United Statesare all members of whatever goes on there,
and they go there I don't andto do what. I don't know,
but they're they pray to the houror something and some kind of ritual
(47:21):
goes on, and who knows,they could be sacrificing somebody who I'm going
down tonight. I mean, ifhe wos he's going to break a hip
and it's all over, he's goingout there in I don't think so it's
naked under the moon. She said, this show is going places. Let
(47:42):
me tell you we're having a goodtime tonight. We only do that on
Saturdays, so that's night. Yeah. Oh my god. They sacrifice an
effigy. I don't know. Ithink it's I think it's fascinating. We're
gonna have to find out about that. I think you know about the Mohemian
Grove and tell me. There isa whole Reddit thread on that. I
(48:12):
think it's Washington or Oregon, oneof the two. Oh, Washington State,
not Washington d C. Washington Statebecause it's it's it's actually a really
pretty place. If you watched thevideos. There's like big giant redwoods all
around here. It's really Okay,I need to introduce you to someone because
we're getting down to the last coupleof minutes. He's been bugging me to
be on my show, but I'mfinally doing it from my house tonight.
(48:34):
You can come over here and sayhi, this is Nicholas Hichol. Is
okay? Are you happy? Nowyou can tell your friends you've been on
a podcast. Yeah, it's official, all right, Yeah, you're famous.
Okay, going over there and I'llbe with you a little bit,
all right, I want to beHe looks like he's grown a little bit.
(48:59):
He's grown a lot. He's goingto be eleven. I can't even
believe it. That's what happened.I know, mine got big and flew
away. Yeah, I'm telling youit's crazy. So we only have we
only have about four minutes left,four and a half minutes left. Tell
(49:19):
me a little bit more about yourpodcast where people can find it, and
your books, because people might wantthat to tell us about your books and
your podcast, and so I dohave two books that are out. You
can find them at Thomas dot org. You can find everything from c.
Thomas dot org. The new podcast, The Gateway. I haven't posted that
just yet on my on my socialmedia or anything like. Well, it
(49:43):
is on my social media, it'snot on my website yet, but I'm
going to get that connected sometime thisweek, so you'll be able to find
it from there as well. Butyeah, everything's on cl Thomas dot org.
Okay, cool. And what theone of the books, One's Dancing
with Demons, that's the new one. Dancing with demon is my personal story.
So, like I've said, Igrew up with the paranormal, but
(50:05):
I was not afraid of it.You know how most people who've had paranormal
experiences as a young child, theysay that they were scared and everything.
That wasn't the case with me.The first time I was scared of it
was when I lived in a hauntedhouse in Nashville, and so that's what
that story is. And it wasa very negative haunting. There was a
lot of stuff that went on.I don't really want to go into too
(50:28):
much detail about what was going onin the house, but it was a
pretty bad haunting and it just buta good thing did come out of it.
I mean, once I came out, I was reintroduced to the spirit
world and I was back on thisjourney again to working with spirit, and
(50:49):
I don't know, it's been quitea journey. Good for you, And
I'm glad to call you my friend, even though we don't talk all the
time. And she thinks sometimes Ihate or like I did, but I
didn't. It's just me being caughtup in light. But I am so
glad that you are my friend andwe get to talk like this and I
get to be on your show,the new One, The Gateway, that's
December twenty sixth, so look forus there. I want to just share
(51:14):
too real quickly because I see Bill'sbeen posting some things in the chat here.
Tonight is the Geminids meteor shower.It peaks tonight, so if you
go outside, you're going to seeup to like one hundred meti years an
hour, So we'll have to gooutside and take a peek. He's going
to be streaming it right afterwards.What is this? Bill Boberchristoperno, Tony
(51:35):
Martinez, Michael Schratt, and LindaZimerman on with me at nine pm tonight
and they're going to be streaming it. Let's see Skywatcher gaming on YouTube,
So if you go to YouTube buta Skywatcher gaming, it's going to be
there. Betsy, thanks for takingpart in the conversation tonight. We all
love cl She's great, and Ihope that people will check out her books
(51:59):
and check out her podcasts and allthe other great things she's got going on.
And I hope you'll hang on afterthe show because I do want to
chat with you for just a minute. I know we took away your gym
time and everything, and I appreciatethat. I'm very grateful that you came
on and joined us tonight. Yeah, and thanks to everyone for being such
(52:20):
a receptive audience. Mary and allthe others with us tonight, and our
producer Bill who's backstage keeping everything running. I appreciate all of you. So
we have a minute and a half. Anything else you want to share before
we call it a night. Idon't have anything. Nope, you can.
If anyone has questions, they canreach out to me. I'll always
(52:42):
answer email or messages or whatever itis on on Instagram and Facebook. Instagram
and Facebook. Christine Thomas, Yesat Thomas. Yeah, yeah Thomas.
People have a hard time for Yeah, okay, cool beans. That's good.
(53:02):
And Christina is so good to seeyou as always. I'm glad to
see you all decked out for theholiday. I did all of this for
you. I think I think you'refire off. But it kind of frozen.
But yeah, that's all right,that's all right, it's a little
frozen. What is that behind you? Cel? Is that a is that
(53:23):
towels from your bathroom? That's youmade figure? Or what is that thing
back there? So that is actuallythat's the theme photo that I use for
Small Town Tales podcast. Gotcha.But it's a talk and it's of this
art installation out Hang on. Weare coming to a hard end right here
(53:43):
in three minutes. Have a greatnight, everybody. Thank you so much
for joining us, and we'll seeyou next time. Good night everyone.
You've been listening to The Paranormal Projectradio show with Scott Island and Christina Bowen.
Be sure to subscribe so you don'tmiss the next episode. While you're
(54:05):
there, leave us a rating andreview. We'll be back next week with
more exciting guests.
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