Jim Loki

When he was just a little boy, Jim Loki began to experience frightening encounters with extra-terrestrial beings. While the abductions have changed and morphed over time they continue to torment him to this very day. As host of the Clueless Experiencer podcast, Jim is a resource and ally for other experiencers. Join us for a fascinating conversation with Jim and discover why he thinks the aliens have come after him for decades.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The Pure Normal Project radio show.Car are your hosts Scott Allen and Christina

(00:38):
Bowen. Hello everyone, and welcometo the November fifteenth edition of our show.
Hello my lovely co host Christina Bowen. How are you, my friend?
I am good tonight. How areyou? I'm so glad you're good
tonight. I am so excited abouttonight's show. But I do want to

(00:59):
share something with everyone. We havementioned this once before. Kgra who hosts
our show, has been doing alot to kind of amp up their website,
amp up their presence online and theirofferings. They have a lot of
great shows just like this one andsome that are a little bit different.
And you can subscribe and get anannual or a you know, a monthly

(01:21):
membership. And because you watch ushere on the Paranormal Project, I put
a little banner right across the bottom. If you want a membership, you
can get thirty percent off bye typingin Spooky one off a monthly membership or
Spooky twelve if you want thirty percentoff an annual membership. But check out

(01:41):
live dot kgradb dot com you cancheck out all of the offerings that they
have and again, if you likethis this sort of material, the paranormal,
edgy stuff, metaphysical ghosts, youname it. KGRA is the place
to be and you can definitely checkthem out. I'll leave that banner across

(02:04):
the bottom of the page. Ifanyone wants to sign up, it is
right there. Spooky one for amonthly membership or Spooky twelve and you'll get
thirty off of each of them.So I'm very excited for this show tonight.
If you ever wondered what this wholealien thing is about, you know

(02:27):
that we're being visited. There areships, there are beings, there are
experiences. Tonight, we have agentleman with us that has been an experiencer
for a majority of his life andstill is today. These experiences continue to
happen, and you know, we'regoing to get into the nitty gritty with

(02:51):
him and talk about his life andwhat this has done to him and what
his experiences experiences have actually been.And so, without further ado, I'd
like to welcome Jim Loki to theshow. Hi Jim, how why are
you? My friend? Scott?Hi Christina, thank you, thank you

(03:13):
for joining us and sharing this becauseI know this isn't easy. I know
it's not it's difficult. A lotof people have have some real challenges sharing
this kind of things. It canreally rock your world. So I really
appreciate you being here. When didthis thing start for you, Jim?
How old were you when you firsthad your first experience? Well, my

(03:38):
first experience, my first you know, feelings of fear around this. There
was a lot of confusion, youknow. I didn't have the type of
experience where I remember, you know, a UFO landing in the yard and
them approaching me and you know,taking my temperature. Right, I just

(04:01):
out of the blue developed this fearof imagery of what's it seemed to be
the gray alien, right with thebig eyes in the tiny mouth. When
I was around seven years old,I was up with my grandparents and we

(04:23):
watched the first episode of Unsolved Mysteriesand they featured the Roswell and they must
have shown a picture of like agray alien, and it shook me for
no reason that I knew, butI reacted in such an extreme way.

(04:50):
I told my grandmother that I didn'twant to take a shower that night because
I was afraid that they were goingto pull me through the wall. And
now you seven, you know thatpulling you through the wall thing, turns

(05:12):
out is is a common experience peopleare. People report being levitated through walls,
through closed windows, and through ceilingsand attics and onto some craft of
some sort. So you know,it's it's strange to me that that was

(05:38):
my fear. Then, when Ihad no recollection of anything being pulled through
a wall, that night, Iwent to bed and wouldn't go to sleep.
I wouldn't stop. I was fearful. Uh, And then that fear
continued through my teens in twenties,have been long periods of my life kept

(06:02):
up by infomercials and just afraid togo to sleep. That's where it started.
Yet I didn't know why, butyou know, it evolved. I
started having these weird dreamlike experiences,and I started to recall things that were

(06:27):
strange that happened much earlier. Ihave When you say strange, can you
give us an example. Yeah,I have a clear memory from when I
had to have been about one yearsold or one and a half. And
I know this because I was stillin my crib and I shared a room

(06:53):
with my mom. And the memoryis that I was awake and I was
standing up in my career, holdingon to the railing, and I could
see on the wall across from me, over her bed a circle of light
and in my you know, babybrain, I saw it as the moon.

(07:17):
I thought the moon was in myroom and it was on the wall.
It's kind of strange, as yousaid that, Yeah, that qualifies
and strange. So it's it's it'sthings like that, you know, we'recalling
that memory and going, hey,what you know, what was that?

(07:39):
And you know Mom wasn't Mom wasn'tin bed, you know, where was
she? Like what happened after that? You know, I don't remember being
fearful. I just remember kind ofthe feeling of like, wow, look
at that. The moon is inmy you know, in my room,
on the wall, you know,and of course there's a baby. You

(08:01):
know, that's not out of therealm of possibility. You know, when
you're when you're that age, youdon't understand that that can't be what that
is, right, that that's notsupposed to happen, right, right,
right? Did your mother ever reportanything to you that she'd had explosions?
No, she she did it.You know, it's common for experiences to

(08:31):
have that as a trait in theirfamily. You know, it's it's thought
that maybe lineages are traced in partof whatever the plan is, the study
or whatever is going on. ButI don't know. I mean, there
are also other common alleys between experiences. A lot of times it's it's having

(08:52):
military in your family. Really,you know, that's something that comes up
quite often. Yeah, you know, so I have that. I Uh,
when I talked to my grandmother aboutthis stuff, she she got upset
with me and basically said what theAir Force has said, which I find

(09:18):
funny now. But she just justsaid, uh, those are crash test
dummies and that was yeah. Butshe was very angry about it. And
you know, uh, it's funny. She was a she was a typist
for the army, and I'm talkingabout talking about I don't think she had

(09:39):
any any access to anything top secret. There was a family story about,
you know, the typist making mistakesand just starting over, just tossing them
into the trash, you know,So I doubt she was typing about anything
at Roswell or anything. It's interestingthough. It's suspicious to me. And

(10:03):
when I say it's suspicious, Imean I don't think your grandmother was telling
you untruth. But I often wonderif she had her own fears, if
she had her own I think youdidn't understand yeah inindsight. Yeah, And
that's what I think about now,because you know, how would I react
if my grandson was coming to mewith the same you know deals, and

(10:24):
I wasn't as comfortable with it asI am. Well, especially if your
grandchild is that age. Your grandson'snot thirty, you know, your grandson
is a is a baby really atalk and so you don't want to frighten.
Yeah, you know, and Ithink that's I mean, that's a
that's a valid response. I wouldthink, you know, I think that

(10:50):
when when you when you talk aboutthese exp I don't know if you can
answer this because you weren't really awareof it at the time, But do
you think that they were physical abductions? Like they come, they get you,
they bring you out, and theyput you back. You know.
My question was that would be,well, you know what if your parents
walked in the bedroom, you knowwhat if you you know, they would

(11:13):
notice you weren't there, and thenyou were you know what I mean.
So I wonder how that would haveworked back then. I don't have any
memory of being, you know,floated out the window and walking onto a
craft. I've woken up. I'vebecome aware in spaces that one would assume

(11:43):
is a craft, similar to whatother people have reported being on a flat
table. I'm curious, do yourecall it warm or cold? I I
don't. I can't. I can'tsay warmer cold. It's disorienting, you

(12:11):
know. The most recent time I, you know, I was at a
I was actually on a table ata forty five degree angle. Really,
yeah, so it's it's it's headup, yeah, so that's it's uh,
it's weird things like that. It'sthat are disorienting. You know.
A light source kind of ambient,like not coming from anywhere exactly, you

(12:39):
know, not not like something Iwould recognize as a lamp right right,
you know. And I've never reallygotten a good look of anything under me
or behind me, you know,the detail that you hear from some experiences
that have been on these craft.I don't have it. It's just the

(13:01):
you know, I can remember clearlylooking at the back of one of their
heads over my shoulder, but likethe wherever I was exactly, I couldn't
couldn't. I couldn't say, Jim, do you know that as a memory,
like like you remember what you didyesterday or did that come through later

(13:22):
on in some kind of a regression. No, I haven't done regression,
so it's all a memory. It'sjust I remember. Yeah, I haven't
done regression. It's you know,regression has been uh brought up, and
I've been actually recommended to somebody localthat you know, but I I haven't.

(13:46):
I'm not I'm not prepared to dothat at this you know, this
point. It's it's a it's somethingthat I admire when people can do it
and get something out of it.I feel like I'm doing this at my
own pace and it's it's working forme now. So I'm just going to

(14:07):
stick to that. You're where you'reat, and to a certain extent,
you probably would be reliving it,you know, if it was truly a
successful session. Yeah, you know, you might be reliving it all over
again, which you know, Idon't know. I think that maybe think
of something when you talked about,you know, seeing the back of their
heads. You know, it's interestingthat they don't well, maybe they do

(14:31):
block out your memory. I mean, I've heard those sorts of things too,
so that you remember. But yeah, well you do. There's reports
that they they can manipulate your memoryand your perception of reality real time.
They can appear as something completely different, as an animal, as a man

(14:54):
with a mask, as as ashadow, and they could they whatever they
are, they can control your perception. So who knows what I saw?
Who knows what the back of thisthing's head was. I can distinctly remember
the round dimples like on the undersideof its cranium, but I don't know

(15:24):
what I was looking at. Yeah, when Kathy Martin was on the show,
I don't know, a year ortwo ago. She is the niece
of Betty and Barney Hill, andof course you know they're very famous about
having that experience in New Hampshire.And they came back and they're you know,
Herny's dress was ripped. I meanshe had been through something physically.

(15:46):
It's you know, they had lostall sense of time. Have you experienced
anything like that where there has beena loss of time, where that physically
you came back and something's happened tome physically you can tell your clothes are
ripped or you've got to you know, I've never had anything. My dress
has never been ripped for what.Well, that's good because you'll still have

(16:08):
it for Friday night. So that'swhat about that? Yeah, but I
have I have experienced missing time.It's it's weird, though, so you
know, I started studying this phenomenonin my early twenties. You read about

(16:37):
missing time. It's a seems likeit's a common factor here, so I'm
aware of it. And then Ilived my life thinking that's never happened to
me. I would know, right, because the story usually is something like
I was somewhere and then I Isaw a light in the sky, and

(17:02):
then all of a sudden, itwas four hours later and bang, missing
time. Right. I had amissing time where I was driving in an
area that I wasn't familiar with.I was coming back from a friend's lake
house with my girlfriend, and Icame to at an exit off of the

(17:30):
highway in front of a Wendy's.And did I fall asleep? Did I?
I don't know. My girlfriend realizedthat the car had stopped, and
she woke up or popped her headup and said, you know, what
are you doing? And I justhad no idea where I was or how

(17:55):
I got there. So that's that'sinteresting in itself, and it could be
it could be a thousand things.Before it's it must have been an eta,
so you know before that, therewas some strangeness that happened. So

(18:19):
that's where you know, when thestrangeness happens and then that missing time event
happens, then I go back andthink, well, maybe there's something to
that strangeness. So when I'm talkingabout strainess strangeness mm hm. There's there's
something that's been described as the Ozeffect for experiencers where shortly before something happens,

(18:51):
you have this feeling of like wow, like what is this like strange
Wizard of Oz type feeling happening rightnow? You know, like you're in
munchkin Land. Everything's different and everythingeverything's different. Yeah, So that happened

(19:11):
that morning. We were hiking andwe were in the woods and all of
a sudden, moths started dying andfalling like raining out of the trees.
So yeah, so that's Weirdly,that's probably a natural phenomenon, but it's
weird weird. And then we satat the top of a hill, two

(19:36):
friends and I and in total silence, we heard a tree crack, crack,
crack, and then boom, awhole giant tree fell over and slid
down the hill beside us. Sowe were like, wow, that's crazy.
You know. We made all theyeah, the obligatory joke of trying

(19:57):
to figure out, well, yeah, make a sound, you know.
Yeah, right, So that's that'sright. So that's the strangeness interesting,
and that's how it manifest and thenyeah, so it's it's not always so
easy to just say I saw thelight in the sky and something happened,

(20:18):
right, But you know, andI think too this whole God, please
don't call the Registry of Motor Vehiclesbecause what I'm going to say here,
but I feel like there have alsobeen moments when I've gotten to a stop
sign and I'm like, how theheck did I just get here? Now?
Is that normal? Because I feellike that's normal. I feel like

(20:41):
I'm that can't be the only onethat's ever happened. It is normal because
you know, you're on autopilot,especially when you're driving where you've seen and
it's the same highway you've been everyday back and forth from working at home.
But ah, God, there's agreat joke. What's his name,
Stephen Wright, the comedian. Hesaid, he's a dead pan. He

(21:04):
would just have like one liners andyou would say, you know, I've
never fallen asleep driving, but I'vewoken up driving and that happened. That's
funny because it's happened. You thinkyou woke up when you're driving, So
you know, you have to weighthat against you're one experience of waking up

(21:30):
while driving to see you know whatthe context is. Yeah, a few
point times than one, but stillnonetheless Yeah, you know, but but
it doesn't mean it was an alien. It doesn't mean it was an abduction,
it doesn't mean any of that.But in your case, you know,
you have all these other pieces ofit to sort of fall in together.

(21:55):
Yeah, and and two, youknow, the the UFO thing scenes
to open up all sorts of paranormalactivity. The UFO thing, it's very
commonly reported for people that are experiencesof you know, what are perceived as

(22:15):
aliens or UFOs. They all haveghost stories, they all have orb stories,
they all have poltergeist stories. It'sso common. And I'm not the
exception that that. For sure,I've had my fair share of that stuff.
Well, and I think, youknow, you and I have had
this conversation that you know, eventhough the medium ship has been around,

(22:38):
I know, you know, lookingback at it, it's been around most
of my life. But it wasafter I saw that ship in nineteen ninety
five that things changed. Things changed. It was it was certainly I still
wasn't thinking, oh, I mustbe a medium, but I became aware
of things. The building that Iowned, I could hear people walking up

(23:03):
and down the stairs and across upstairs, and I could smell things and feel
things that I hadn't and and Iand I really feel like there was a
time that that that was the definingmoment, and after that thing started to
change a little bit for me.Yeah, it's a it's a it's a

(23:26):
it's a real observable phenomenon. It'sbeen studied by the US government. The
Department of Defense had a program thatstudied UFOs and it overlapped and general.
If you've heard of the Skinwalker Ranch, Oh yeah, So the Skinwalker Ranch

(23:48):
is a place that had a tonof UFO reports and the people who owned
the ranch for a while started experiencing, oh, all kinds of crazy stuff,
seeing different cryptids around and seeing portalsin the sky. And what they

(24:10):
figured out is that there's something calledthe hitchhiker effect. So if you're within
proximity of that activity, it canattach itself somehow, like virally and spread
to you and your family. Wow, So that that's been observed, it's
written about. Now your family hashad experiences too, some of them,

(24:34):
right, I mean and you toldme that, yeah, and it told
them to knock it off. Imean, you know, and I'm just
summarizing it. Yeah, on theyou know, the psychic end my family
has has is more in tune tothat. You know, I don't know

(24:55):
if there's a connection necessarily, butyou could you could guess. Can you
tell me though that when your kidswere little that they had started to see
the grays and a sort of yeah, sort of. So my stepdaughter,

(25:17):
when she was very very young,two years old, ah, came in
to my room the next day andtold us, Uh, the mushrooms came
into my room last night. Andyou know, my wife is like thinking,

(25:41):
what, you know, this isa toddler just talking crazy. But
my stomach immediately dropped because I recognizedwhat what it could be to go back
a little bit speaking of how thesethey can distort your perception of reality.

(26:07):
Your you hear stories about uh youknow that they appear as clowns or with
monkey masks, I've heard, oras animals owls, you know. So
to think the mushrooms came into myroom, you know what's what's that?

(26:30):
It sounds like them? Yeah,So I said, well, what did
they do? And she goes,they looked at me like this, and
uh, it's upsetting. Of courseit's upsetting. So I had time to

(26:53):
think about it, and I'll sayafter that, she had one other story
where she said her lamp was lookingat her. She had like a little
kid lamp that was like had threethings with goose snacks, and she said
they were looking at She said thatthey were looking at her and she wouldn't
like it. And she said,I want you to get rid of the

(27:15):
lamp. So we did throughout thelamp, and then after that she said
she had nothing. She has nomemory of this now either. I think,
you know, I've gone back andthought about it. You know,
if they're interested in lineages and familyconnections, she was my stepdaughter, so

(27:37):
they were probably checking her out,like what is this? Uh, I
don't know, unsanctioned breeding going onhere, right right right, that's but
that's that's that's a that's an absoluteguess. There's no Yeah, did your
wife at the time know what washappening to you? Or yeah? I
had told her about it. She'snever she's never been. I'm very lucky

(28:02):
and that she's always accepted everything thatI've told her. She Uh, I
don't know if she really recognized thatas what I thought it was. I
understand, Yeah, so it wasI kept it to myself. Yeah,

(28:22):
probably a good idea. I meanthat's frightening. You know, you just
make everybody it is crazy because Imean it's like, well, you're powerless
when you're growing up and dealing withthis, and now how are you You're
you're still powerless and trying to protectyour kids from mm hmmm for sure,
for sure. Yeah, it's it'shard. You know. I've heard from

(28:44):
mouf On that they they do theyfollow families through history, and that typically
if you're having an experience, you'reprobably not the first one in your family.
It's probably been going on for avery long time. That's just I
mean, I'll be honest, itpreach me out. Yeah, it's it's

(29:07):
frightening, it's absolutely frightening. Yeah. I would love personally to do some
kind of a regression to find outwhat that ship was in nineteen ninety five.
I don't believe that, I ever. I don't think there was anything
other than that. I don't feellike there was any kind of you know,

(29:29):
I don't feel like I was anabductee or anything like that. I
don't feel like that, you know. I mean, who knows, but
I don't think so. But Iwould love to go back and see and
feel what that was so that Icould understand it better. I mean,
it's been a long time, butyou've even said you had, well,
your path, your journey kind ofblossomed and opened up after that. After

(29:53):
that, you have to look atthis synchronicity there. Yeah, there's there's
a government study that has uh,you know, biological effects due to proximity
of UFOs. So proximity. Imean I was close, you know,
I was on the road. Yeah, But but it doesn't mean that I

(30:15):
was necessarily in the craft with them, do you know what I mean?
I don't I don't know you tobe in the craft, I don't think.
Yeah, I think just being withinthe the general area maybe, right.
I mean again, it's it's acommonly reported I think people say I
had the sighting and then all ofa sudden, this strange thing starts happening,

(30:37):
and this strange thing starts happening.It's common. Is it always paranormal
in nature start happening. Yeah,well it's because it's the you know,
paranormal is strange, right, probablyby definition. Yes, you know,
I'm not I haven't won any lotterytickets. You know, I don't have

(31:03):
that superpower i've had, you know, but but I've had pre cognitive dreams
where I've seen people that I wasclose to, uh dead and then found
out that they were they had died, you know. Uh. You know

(31:26):
that's so interesting, Jim, becauseit's all like coming back to me now
as we're talking to you. ButI always tell these stories about how when
I was in the funeral home andI was in the funeral business, I
would think, this is what happenedto you know, Mary Smith. You
know, I hadn't thought about herin a while, and the next day
I get the call she's gone,Or that afternoon I would get the call

(31:49):
and she was gone. That neverhappened until after that experience, and I
really never put that. I mean, this is only in hindsight. I
sit back and think maybe, butit never happened before I would remember that.
Yeah, that's the hallmark of somethingthat's either pre cognitive or or even

(32:16):
people talk about synchronicities, which realdiscussions and synchronicity goes way over my head.
It's it's it's like big brain stuffthat I really can't wrap my head
around. But it's you know,what's what's an actual important coincidence and what

(32:38):
isn't. It's it's what context it'sin. You know. So if you
haven't thought of this person in amillion years and then something comes up and
there's a memory there and they're deador something happens, that's then there's context
to it being strange, right,And it didn't feel pre cognitive to me.

(33:01):
I mean it still doesn't, youknow, I don't think yeah,
and I don't think it ever does. I don't. I think you have
to. It's hard to know whensomething is pre cognitive. It's hard to
know exactly because because then you canact on it, and it seems like
we can never really act on it. Op did we lose Scott? Did

(33:25):
you? Is everything okay? Scott? H Oh? We just love Scott.
He'll be back. Yeah, finally, finally we got rid of that
guy. Now listen, this iswhat's going to happen. I'm taking over
the Paranormal Project to be the ParanormalProject with Jim Loki Hadrian, Christina bout

(33:50):
it. If you're lucky, I'llkeep yet, we can keep going.
I'm sure he'll pop back in,all right, Christina, what's your top
five Desert Island records? Oh?We could go on that. I'm a

(34:13):
crazy mix of music. But backto what you were talking something funny?
Ah, how often do you guysrun into technical difficulties? Now? You
you guys have a professional wrangling thingsright, So you have a producer,
you have somebody pushing buttons making surethe show goes on. And how many

(34:37):
times do you have technical difficulties everysingle show? Yeah, because you gotta
We talked about it's the ghosts,it's the aliens, it's the poltergeist,
it's maybe it's the CIA, maybethey're maybe they're messing with you. But

(35:01):
I do have a leg to allthrough the house, so it happens.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'sit's so common. It cracks me up.
Every time my good friend has apodcast, you know, on the
same subject, and she laughs,it's the same thing that nine times out

(35:22):
of ten, you are. Inever left her and welcome back to we
have our guests today, Scott Allen, take it away. So I need
to tell you I was getting allkinds of weird beeps and sounds and like
static white noise. Now now look, I still can't hear you through these

(35:45):
things. Now I can take themoff. I hear you from the computer
even though it's connected. But allI could hear was like weird electronic notes,
sounds and white noise. And Imyself out because I thought you could
hear it, and Chanel said no, everything was fine on her, and

(36:05):
so it was just coming to me. I know, a wonky stuff,
you know, the energy sometimes aroundme is a little bit crazy, and
that sometimes will happen. That's neverhappened, but that's what we were just
discussing. Scott. Yeah, andI don't think weird energy. I can
hear you. I can hear youthrough the through the computer. It won't

(36:28):
go back to my thing right now. I don't know what happened. You
know, it was just kind ofweird, and I was afraid that that's
all you could hear that nobody couldhear you. But but nobody else heard
it except me, which is reallyodd. So no, that was just
you, That was just me,all right, But you jumped out.
Remember I'm Ed McMahon and you're JohnnyCarson. Ed doesn't carry the show.

(36:53):
Ed doesn't carry the show well,but Edward try dropped Edward Try. Yeah,
that was very strange. That's that'sall right. But you know,
you've got a point when we we'vehad our fair share of these kinds of

(37:17):
just weird technical glitches, and itcertain guests just seem to bring it out
even more. Whenever we have anyoneon who's a little intuitive that's in tune,
I would say in tune, youknow, yeah, it's just kind
of like it'll sometimes do things andyou don't look for nothing. And I'm

(37:42):
not going to say that everything isparanormal, because we all know it's not
right. But you have a galacticgroup of friends, let's just put it
that way, and you know theyprobably know you're here. Yeah, I
would say they pay attention, especiallywhen you talk about them. Yeah,
and it's it's either them or theC I a guy that's assigned to me,

(38:05):
So you never know. I meanI told I don't know if I
told you, Jim, when wewere in Scotland. I was in Scotland
a year and a half ago andwe were where there's a lot of these
things. We saw the black helicopterswith people dressed in suits and unmarked and
then a black car came up,all tinted windows with two people dressed in

(38:27):
suits, the men in black.I mean, it was like they came
up, they spun around and itwas left. Yeah, that area you
say it was bonnie Bridge, scottbonnie Bridge was that was Yeah, that's
that's a hot spot. There's alot of apot. Yeah, it's a
UFO hotspot. And I believe thatthe one of the lines, the energy

(38:49):
lines, the lay lines in thatarea. Yeah, so there's a yeah,
there's uh the history of strangest inthat area, you know, goes
back to the Aliens, that ofyesteryear fairies. Well okay, so let
me just share that because I knowwe're talking about this kind of thing.

(39:12):
We had seen. We were lookingin the sky at bonnie Bridge, that's
when we saw the two black helicopters. They were open on the side,
there were people looking down. Theycame and they went, they were flying
really low. We went down thehill and around the corner there's this little
cave where the fairies are. Andthat's what made me think of it when

(39:35):
you said that. Now, interestinglyenough, you have to climb down and
into this area where there is thiscave. People leave offerings for the fairies.
That's kind of a big thing.And I was taking pictures throughout with
my iPhone, right and then Ilooked through the pictures after one, two,

(39:58):
three, four, and then therewas one was upside down. Now,
it's impossible to take an upside downphoto with your iPhone because it spins
around. It spins around, Sothat was odd in and of itself.
Became out of the cave and wewere up waiting. There was a little
parking area and this black suv camein, like I said, tinted windows.

(40:22):
Two people dressed in black suits literallycame in, spun right around and
right back out again. And we'rein the middle of nowhere, I mean
nowhere. I don't know where thesepeople came from or how they found us.
But you know, the men inblack? Is that? Is that
a thing? Maybe? I don'tassure what it looked like to me?

(40:44):
Was it government? Enough people havereported that, you know. And to
add to it, the Faery War. There's a famous researcher named uh Jacques
Valet. Okay, he's a venturecapitalist. He brilliant. I think he

(41:08):
had something to do with creating theinternet back in the day. He's a
brilliant guy. The film Close Encountersof the Third Kind, remember the French
scientist that is there in the movie. It's based on him. That character
was based on Jacques Vallet. Hehas numerous books kind of delving into that

(41:36):
old folklore angle of what we're seeingtoday and that it's somehow connected. Wow,
fascinating. It's a lot we don'tknow. Like I said earlier,
you have to approach. I mean, if you're in you can't just assume
that just because you can't see itor experience it yourself, that it isn't

(41:59):
real, right, So, Jim, I don't know a lot we don't
know. Dan, Yeah, Idon't know about I mean, I love
my fairies, so I would Iwould be hurt to think that they weren't
really fairies. Yeah, but howdid they behave? They were mischievous,

(42:19):
they would take children, right,Yeah, think of it that way.
There's there there's a lot we don'tdon't know. I mean, and this
is another Jacques Vlet quote. He'dbe really disappointed if it turned out that
this was just little green men comingfrom another solar system, you know.

(42:44):
And I don't concur I don't.I don't think that's what we're experiencing.
I think it's something much stranger andmuch weirder and harder to wrap our heads
around. I come from the schoolwith thought that as as human beings,
it's awful conceited of us to thinkthat we are it, that there's nothing

(43:07):
else, And that falls right inline with everything that you've talked about,
right, It just blows your mind. I mean, it makes you question,
yeah, your very belief system.It's it's exactly that. It just

(43:27):
it blows your mind, right,right. But there's so much that blows
my mind. I mean, evenwhen I do blows my mind, and
what's going on with you blows mymind. You still, to this day
experience these these episodes, do younot? Yeah? Yeah, you know,

(43:49):
it's evolved, you know, asa kid, it was very frightening.
It was very feeling a powerlessness andfear. I've I've you know,
found a great community of experiencers onlinethat have been a great resource in just

(44:12):
contextualizing my experiences. People have evenshared ways of protecting yourself different uh you
know, protection rituals or uh statesof mind. Ah, just you know,
as simple as there was a guyI was talking to in a support

(44:36):
group who just said, well,have you have you tried saying f off?
I was like, you could dothat. You could just say well
f off really, and yeah youcan't? You you can. You could

(45:00):
take power back for yourself. Youhave sovereignty over yourself. And once you
realize that, it's much different.When I have had recent experiences, I
think I'm actually getting something out ofthem and not just being afraid and bad

(45:28):
memories. Are you still afraid whenit happens? I don't know, because
the state of fear I'm not there. You know, the last one I
remember, well, the second tolast one, I remember I wasn't you

(45:49):
know, oh, hey, how'sit been? How you doing? But
I was calm, I was justneutral, and you know, I kind
of felt like a willing participant inthe way that you know, a good
cat behaves at the vetered aarian's office. Gotcha, that makes perfect sense.

(46:14):
Yeah? Yeah, and uh andit may just be because of you know,
like the cat. I know,I'm not gonna have my hands chopped
off. I'm gonna I just needto be said. I'm gonna get be
put back in the towel, andit's gonna be fine. So somewhere,
somewhere, deep down, I probablyhave gotten to that point. Yeah,

(46:37):
do you know why? Why?You? Probably not? No, I
you know that's the big question.Why me? What's going on? Who
are they? Right? All thesecrazy questions that I don't think we'll ever
have the answer to. I certainlydon't have those answers at all. So
I've stopped asking those questions. Mhm. And I rather question how have

(47:06):
I changed? What? What haveI done? How has the experience affected
me? In that way? SoI see myself over time evolving into a
more peaceful, content complete human.You know, I didn't grow up around

(47:35):
any anything hippie New Age whatsoever.I grew up in a very conservative material
family. And uh, like I'vejust done a complete one eighty and in
that regards, you know, it'sa well, you know, there's more
out I've never had. I've neverhad them tell me to be good to

(47:58):
the planet. I've never had thoseexperiences. But that's how I feel.
I've I I want to be avegan, I want to take to take
care of all animals. I don'tkill bugs in my house like that's you
know, it sounds silly, butit's it's actually it's I've become spiritual.

(48:24):
I love that. Yeah, youmake things. Yeah, I've become spiritual.
I have a different worldview than Ithink I could have ever had without
these experiences. Do you know,Oh, I'm sorry, Jim, I
say maybe that you know, Sothat's maybe that's the idea. Maybe that's

(48:46):
the whole point of this. Doyou know when it's going to come?
Do you have a sense of itbefore it happens or is it just a
complete Yeah, it's like on Icall being on and off. And when
I'm off mm hmmm, I'm Iknow nothing's gonna happen, But when I'm

(49:13):
on, I don't know when it'sgoing to happen. But all of the
little weird things happen. Mm hm. And how are you now, I'm
off. I'm off, I'm off. But as I say that, I
kind of got chills up. Youknow, it's like, don't be don't

(49:35):
be so sure, you know,but yeah, it it it. There's
periods of quiet, and uh,I've been in a period of quiet.
I think they're giving me a chanceto two uh, recover from a you
know, I had a We talkedabout this earlier. I had a stroke
this year, and uh, Ithink I'm in a piece full little area

(50:02):
here. I think they're they're they'rethey're letting me just recover well. On
that note, and that's that's athat's a good thing, and I'm glad
to see you doing better. Onthat note, we have come to just
about the end of this hour withyou, and it always does go by
quickly. I want to tell peopleyou are. What your podcast is is

(50:27):
what's the name of it, Theclueless Experience. Why do I have trouble
with experience? That's how I felt. I couldn't think of another word that
meant clueless that didn't sound stupid,right, the stupid experiencer. But it's
because I really don't know what's goingon. I am not going to claim

(50:51):
to say, this is what's happening, this is who's doing it. I
don't know. That's how we knowyou're you're legit, that's how we know
you're real because you don't have allthese Yeah, check out the Clueless Experience
or is it everywhere? That podcast? Or should I know? You've been
on a hiatus of your illness andthat kind of thing. But yeah,
it's kind of off both for now, but I'm ready to jump off again.

(51:14):
That's great. This December experience,that's fantastic. And you know,
and where can we catch that?Oh, Spotify, Apple podcasts, all
the anywhere we listen to podcasts.Good And we talked about me being a
guest on your show, which Iwould love to do, and so hopefully,

(51:35):
you know, we'll be sharing thiswith our audience and letting people know
when I'll be there. So Iwant to thank you for being here and
sharing all of your personal stories withus, because they really are and it
brings a lot out of you tobe able to share things like this.
I want to remind everyone that nextweek we will not be live. We

(51:55):
will be airing a rerun next showbecause well, we're all going to be
cooking next Wednesday night getting ready forthe big day on Thursday. So next
week is not a live show,but I do think Christina that our show
the week after is all about magic, magic with you know who, because

(52:16):
she is she is a card carrying, broom riding, cauldron stirring witch and
yeah, and she makes her ownteas and all of these kinds of things.
So we're going to be talking aboutmagic in two weeks. But in
the meantime, I want to wisheveryone a very very very happy and healthy

(52:40):
Thanksgiving and kickoff to the holiday season, because it seems like one that every
can just goes bing bing bing,and then it's January. So now we're
sharing with us this year and thisseason. I do want to remind everyone
too December seventh, if you're inMassachusetts, I'm going to be doing a

(53:01):
live gallery demonstration at Meryl's on theWaterfront in New Bedford with spirit medium Karen
Tatro, and those tickets are stillon sale. We do have tickets available.
We can go to my website atMediumscottallen dot com. It's a L
L A N and grab your ticketsfor December seventh, which is a Thursday

(53:23):
night at seven o'clock. If you'rehere in Massachusetts or in the area in
Rhode Island, I would love tosee you there. And again, Christina,
thank you for sharing the show withme and Jim. It's been an
absolute pleasure, so thanks, thankyou so much. Jam good night,
everyone, have a wonderful week,and we will see you in two weeks.

(53:46):
You've been listening to The Paranormal Projectradio show with Scott Allen and Christina
Boat. Sure to subscribe so youdon't miss the next episode. While you're
there, leave us a rating andreview. We'll be back next week with

(54:06):
more exciting guests. Now, goout there and explore the paranormal