Preventing Veteran Suicide with the Firearms Research Institute (Part 2)

Paul Jr. sits down with Doctor William Boozang of the Firearms Research Institute. They discuss the mental health of veterans, ways to prevent veteran suicide and how you can help.

For more info on the Firearms Research Institute: www.firearmsresearchinstitute.org

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
If you or someone you know needsimmediate support, please call the National Suicide
Prevention Lifeline at one eight hundred twoseven three talk that's one eight hundred two
seven three eight two five five,or text home two seven four to one,
dash seven four to one. Youknow, all these years on American

(00:23):
Chopper, we've we've been big supportersof the military, every branch, police,
firemen, anyone who's really putting theirneck out there for this country.
And I'd like to just bring peopleback for a second to understand where that
started for me. I remember whenI was in high school and uh,
they had a recruiter come in andhe was telling kids about, you know

(00:45):
what the military was like. Ican't remember if it was Air Force or
a Navier army, but it doesn'treally matter. The bottom line is is
I remember listening to him and beingreally intrigued. But then I remember thinking,
you know, we had a steelbusiness. You know, I was
working for my father. I rememberthinking it's just not for me. And
in the same moment, now thisis in high school, in the same

(01:06):
moment, my very second thought andit came up real quick, and I
said to myself, well, ifyou're not going to go, Okay,
you better support the military for therest of your life. You better do
things to honor them and respect themand support them. And it just that's
what it was like, all inone moment, and that's when I was
younger. Fast forward American Chopper comsand I will say, I don't think

(01:30):
we've I don't think we've done anytribute more than we have to the military.
I mean we have the pow Miabike. We did. I mean
we did the jet bike was thefirst episode. We did a bike for
Geico, for the US Armed Forces, we did the Comanche bike back in
the day. I think we didfive National Guard bikes. And I'm not

(01:52):
saying that to brag about how muchwe've done for the military, because we
owe them so much, and it'syou know, we can never do enough
for how they sacrifice for our country. And so this conversation we're going to
have today about ways we can preventveteran suicide is near and dear to my

(02:13):
heart, and I think you're goingto find this extremely interesting and maybe one
of the most important conversations I'm goingto have this year. We now have
a doctor William Boo Zang here heis the leading researcher for the Firearms Research

(02:39):
Institute, and and and he's goingto be the guy kind of compiling all
this information for this organization. So, uh, doctor William Boo Zang,
We're happy to have you here,and I really want to know tell us
about yourself, just to give usa little background so we understand. Thanks,

(03:00):
Paul's It's been an evolution for mein so far as I'm a teacher
by training, I'm an educator.Started with teaching high schooling English, and
as I got further into my careerstarted working with college and faculty roles and
then administrative roles, currently working fora small college, Catholic College in Boston.

(03:21):
But in addition to that also workingwith doctoral students. We're working on
doctors of education. And oftentimes thesepeople are what we call scholar practitioners,
okay, who are really looking atwhat kind of research am I going to
do at the site, What kindof research am I going to do about
best practice which is going to impactpeople directly, whether it's impacting our kids,

(03:45):
whether it's impacting adults, whether it'simpacting marginalized or sign particular populations which
really deserve a lot more help.Okay, interesting, So that that's you
know, generally what I do inso far as research, so I would
say educator first and foremost also aresearcher, always looking for solutions to some

(04:12):
problems that we have as a society. So your research is obviously it's based
on is it always from a humanisticstandpoint like what this is? Or is
the research varying or you know,that's that's an interesting question. I like
to you know, the difference betweenwhat I do versus what a psychologist is
doing with clinical research, and thatwe do have a psychologist on the team,

(04:35):
but most concerned with with attitudes,with impressions, really what makes people
tick around certain issues and how wecan better approach our societal problems in order
to help them. Okay, sowhat's the practical application of that concerning the
Firearms Institute, Like what are thewhat is the measure or the function that

(04:59):
you'll be applying to help this thingbecome what it needs to be. I
guess is the question absolutely? Ithink you know, obviously it's still a
pervasive problem for us in so faras suicide particular populations like veterans, and
we don't support them enough. Andthat's my interest. A former student buy
and approached me about this project orI tell me about and I said,

(05:19):
you know, I want in.I want in. This is something where
we're going to make a direct impact, as opposed just being involved in a
study and sort of saying, Okay, let's explore this more. We're looking
at a direct impact through SNAPPERS workand through the entire Firearms Research Institute in
so far as not only looking athopefully really saving lives through the work that

(05:46):
we're doing with these interventions, butalso looking at attitudes and having a better
understanding of you know, what goeson sort of you know, mentally emotionally
as people, How can we bettersupport them leading up to really these catastrophic
events? Super interesting? So,so why is the education, uh,

(06:12):
why why is education a key componentto suicide prevention? What would you say
about I think that we're woefully asa society, woefully under educated about this
particular issue. I think I agreethere is a stigma around us, especially
for guys, but also for menand women, and that for some reason,
depression or for that matter, anykind of of mental illness, anything

(06:35):
sort of on that spectrum, suicidalthoughts it's all Uh, it's all stigma,
a weakness weakens weakness. No onewants to talk about it. And
and we we spoke. When wespoke, me and Snapper, people aren't
talking about this. It's a it'sa major problem that no one wants to
talk about, either before it happensor after. No wants to talk about

(07:00):
it. And it's really a shamebecause people are suffering and ultimately making a
really drastic decision. And that's whatI love so much about this is because
this is like its function. Youknow, it's tangible, right, It's
not the actual action that's going totake place here where you can actually relinquish
your guns willingly right and get themback when you're feeling better. I mean,

(07:24):
it's such a tangible, functional process. And I think you would agree
that that's what makes it different fromeverything out there. And I guess that
I would defer to you. Butso, what is it in your mind
with everything you see out there thatis so different about what this Firearms Research
Institute is all about. First ofall, it's about personal agency and the

(07:48):
fact that we are empowering people tomake their own decisions around this. And
in fact, when one does takeinventory and sort of says, Okay,
things aren't good for me right nowand I'm not feeling all right. They
do have a resource able to turnit over, get the gunlock and basically

(08:09):
say, you know, this istaking a time out for now, okay,
until I can sort of resolve what'sgoing on with me, and then
well we'll approach and we'll explore itagain. But having that kind of agency
and being able to you know,that's empowering, able to make that decision
for yourself. Sure, and Ilove the safe place aspect, right,

(08:30):
especially with veterans. You know,you're dealing with people who they do not
want anything taken from them, right. This is a big factor, right.
They don't want they want to voluntarilybe involved, and that's the only
way it's going to work. Andit seems like this function is creating a
safe haven where they can trust thissituation to be able to relinquish something for

(08:52):
a period of time until they arefeeling themselves again. I think I have
a few anecdotes about that, andI sort of think about the way we
misunderstand as a society what goes on. I think about a friend that I
grew up with who actually ended upon disability or actually getting a discharge from
the army after being involved in someof the chemicals with nine to eleven,

(09:16):
and found himself later on. Thiswas really a traumatic event for him.
Found himself later on at a ata public campus in the South where he
went into the mental health center andsaid, you know what, I'm really
concerned about some health self harm rightnow, and they more or less put
the campus on lockdown because they've theyheard this veteran is a harm and again

(09:39):
part of the stigma. Part ofthe stigma if you're branded with that,
Okay, do we know how tosupport these people in the right way?
And again him having the resources orher having the resources and being able to
take advantage of something like what we'resetting up is ideal. Wow, that's

(10:00):
amazing, and it's crazy how quickthat happens. And it just shows more
of a reason for what this institute'sall about, you know, because people
then get mislabeled. They're just hurt. He's just hurting, right, he
went through something and he was there. So the thing about the military,
and we've talked about this there there, they're where we don't want to be
a lot of the time, right, they're protecting our country and our liberties

(10:22):
and our freedoms, right, Andso you get a situation like that where
they have a bad experience chemically orotherwise. Right there, he was whatever
happened there at nine to eleven,and it was altering how he was seeing
things. And instead of there beinga situation of embrace and some functional Okay,
we're going to get you through this, he's seen as a threat.

(10:46):
Now that's maybe that might be isolated, but it's just it's just a case
in point. This is this iswhat we're dealing with right now. In
other words, there's not a lotof function out there concerning these things.
It's and we talked about this,it's more more postvention than prevention. It's
like, Okay, when things gobad, then we'll figure out how to
handle this instead of preventing it fromthe beginning. And I think this has

(11:09):
a measure of being able to preventsome of this stuff. Look, there's
no you're never going to be everywhereall the time, but I think that
because of the tangible practical application,it's a function that could really have an
impact. Absolutely absolutely. And Iwas just talking to one of the other
researchers. Doug Floor on my wayhere and talking a little bit about what

(11:31):
he finds most striking in the statisticsfrom the last decade, and he did
mention that when we look at suicides, about half of them involve firearms.
Okay, because there really is noon ringing that bell, and it is
pretty darn accurate in many cases.Sure, absolutely, And so when you

(11:52):
have something which is sort of onehundred percent, you know, effective in
this catastrophic events, this is thevery reasonable what we need some resources and
order so that I could explore otheravenues and I can look and seek the
supports that are out there for me. One Call Concepts is an official sponsor

(12:16):
of the Paul Junior podcast. AndI'll tell you I've been working with these
guys for so many years now.Essentially it's eight one to one a call
before you dig. And I've builta bike on air on American Chopper,
i built a trike on American Chopper. I even did a corvette in between
when we were filming and not filmingfor these guys, and it's worked phenomenal

(12:37):
for their marketing. And you know, it's really so important to know that
if you're ever gonna dig in theground, whether it's at your house or
at work, that you call eightone one. Here's what's great about eight
one to one. It really cansave lives. You dig in the ground,
you got to worry about hitting awater main, gas maine, electrical

(12:58):
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All you got to do is calleight one one and it's free. It's
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And all I could say is calleight one one before you dig,

(13:22):
you know. And with the militarytoo, it just seems like from the
research I've done, they're they're prone. You know, if you're in the
military, they all know how touse firearms, They know their weapons,
they're intimately involved with them. Theyquite often use them to protect themselves in
a situation of wartime or or oror be on the ready with it.
So they're very familiar. And Iknow quite often when it comes to suicide,

(13:45):
it's the it's the choice that alot of veterans will take. It's
the it's the route they'll take forsuicide. They know that the fail the
failure is pretty minimal, you know, and it's going to do what it's
supposed to do, you know.And that's why I love the idea that
hey, listen, you're feeling thisway, there's no shame in what you're
going through, right, We allgo through things at times. But here,

(14:07):
if you're going through this, thenhere, you know, this is
a safe place for you to parkthis thing until you get the help you
need, you know, and itgets you to the other side of it.
Because here's the thing people need tounderstand, especially people in that position.
I've dealt with things in my lifewith anxiety and depression in my past,
and I know you can get toa pretty hopeless place. But people

(14:28):
have to understand that there is hopethat just because they feel the way they
feel, other people have felt thatway before. If people get in that
position, they think they're the onlyone, honestly, and they need to
understand that it's for a season,okay, and if they can hand that
gun over and start to make thepractical application of okay, this is what
I'm gonna do to get myself help, and there is help out there,

(14:50):
they'll come out of the other sideof it better for it. Right.
So that's what I love about thiscomponent. Otherwise, I don't know of
anything out there. I know there'shelp. I know there's some great organizations
for sure, but no one's takingthis approach to say, hey, this
is safe for you, and andand really you know a great option for
a period in time in which youhave to get yourself healthy. You know.

(15:13):
Frankly, I don't think there's everenough resources, and I think it
really does take a mosaic of resources. We're not going to say, well,
the veterans, they are the VA'sproblem. The vas UH does a
terrific job. It talked to alot of veterans who really love their services
and utilize them fully. But it'sreally more of a team approach. You

(15:33):
know, you, you and Ieverybody else. We have a social obligation.
Absolutely were the people who served andare we doing our part in so
far as supporting them? All?Right, you're right about that, And
that's my that's my conviction right inthis whole, in this whole aspect of
things. And yeah, no,I mean it's it's it's our, it's
our, it's our obligation. Really, I mean, we should be we

(15:56):
should be filling in the gaps inthese areas, in these in the free
areas where yes there's organizations that aredoing some things, but we need more
of this kind of thing, rightto be helping out people in this situation
all day long. Because we talkedabout it earlier, it's like, if
we all do this right, andwe all put this effort in and we
save one life, it's worth it. Even if it takes us the rest

(16:18):
of our lives and we're invested,you know, it's it's worth it.
So I mean that aspect of thingsin and of itself is I mean,
you know, it's it's just worthy. It's a worthy cause, you know,
absolutely, I think that. Youknow, it's not only an individual
as well. It's it's about families, it's about it's about parents, it's
about spouses, it's about children arereally having the ripple effects and uh,

(16:44):
you know, but subsequently we allhave to team around these people that are
having crises and figuring out better waysto keep them out of harm's way if
they're not feeling at their best.Yeah, you know, I was thinking
just now when you're saying that,I think, like, so this could
be a great avenue for enough peopleto be educated in where a wife might

(17:06):
say to her husband, hey,honey, why don't you think about sending
your gun out. Here's the informationon it. It's no obligation. You
send it there. When you wantit back, you get it back.
But I know you haven't been feelingyourself or or vice versa. A husband
telling her wife that, or maybea father telling a son that. Like,
it could be that kind of community, because you're right, you know,

(17:27):
when someone takes their life, thewhole family's affected, especially a father
who has kids. People don't understandwhy it happens, and it happens very
quickly. But you know that's thething. This could be a thing where
people can encourage people, Hey,this is proven, it's safe. Here's
the measure in which it takes.Print it out, put it in a
box, ship it, and whenyou're ready, you call on it.

(17:51):
You know, I think that's that'swildly It almost seems like a simple idea.
And I know we talked about there'sa big function to it, but
man, how practical is that?Absolutely? You know absolutely well. The
fact that we're having these kind ofconversations on your platform folks who are interested
in sort of what you do ortuning in, you know, if give
somebody a different impression on what mightbe out there. And it's not always

(18:15):
an all or nothing proposition. Weneed to make some compromises and we need
to figure out, as I said, a team approach to helping people with
crisis. You know, it's betteryear. Would you consider sort of the
pandemic, the increased isolations going on, It's too soon to tell, and

(18:36):
so far as how this has reallyimpacted people's mental health, but I think
again some rippled effects for again thekind of heightened anxiety which has gone on
over the past fourteen months. Yeah, so I was going to ask you
that. So do you think doyou think the pandemic has made matters more
problematic in the area of suicide justin general and even you know, veteran

(18:59):
suicide and particular, is this isthere an increase that we're seeing. It
has all the signs and so faras you know, employment instability, economic
instability, a lot of families whoare feeling sort of the effects of this
still, you know, as peopleare trying to get back to work,
and just a general anxiety around healthand things like that. Things like that
are for somebody who's already learning tomanage their anxiety and their depression having something

(19:26):
like this compounding, and it's significant. And sure, we're all in this
together, but I think it affectssome people more significantly than others. And
it's really nice to say, Okay, let's flip the switch now and go
back to normal. We're all vaccinated, right, but not everybody's ready.
Not everybody's there, absolutely not.Yeah, I can see that because you

(19:47):
know, anxiety and depression has away of kind of making people very homebodied,
right. You don't want to bein large crowds. That's a normal
function of people who are in thatposition. You don't want to be out
and about, and you know,so Ovid, I can see how it
just when we were all locked down, It just lends itself very well to
people who might be prone to thattype of behavior to be dealing with those

(20:08):
kinds of situations. You know.But I do hope coming out of this
thing, these kinds of organizations likewhat we're talking about here with the Firearms
Research Institute, this is a perfectIt might be perfect timing for this,
and we talked about it. It'snot happening fast enough, right because every
day people are we're losing people,right. But I do think that it's

(20:29):
probably happening faster than a lot ofthese organizations will come up. And I
know that there's some grant money that'sbeing weighted on, and so I think
it's really just going to be abouthow much money could be raised and how
it gets applied. I know itcould be applied pretty quickly, which is
good. That's exciting about it.You know. The other thing that is
really exciting for me about what Snappersput together is the fact that we can

(20:53):
see some impact right away and thatit's not about well, it's all rounding
on this one RT. It reallyis going to be a matter of uh
figuring out both public and private interests, figuring out sort of uh those interests
from government and sort of foundation fundsas well as individual interests, uh,
in order to really get to workon, uh, you know, on

(21:15):
setting this up, and once it'sset up, really looking at sort of
uh, you know, a betterexploration of attitudes of where people are at
when they're when they're turning in firearmsand figuring out how best to support them
both on the front end of thisas well as in the on the back
end when they return to them.That's great. Well, let me ask

(21:37):
you a question, So where dopeople go for this? I mean,
if if, if people want tolearn more about uh more about this stuff,
where would you where would you suggestthat they go? I would love
for folks to go to the fireFirearms Research Institute dot org dot org page
that that we do have. That'sa great starting point in so far as

(21:59):
uh the work that we're doing andsort of the people involved in that.
In addition to that, you know, if immediately people need help, they
should be called the National Suicide PreventionHotline. And when eight hundred and two
seven three talk, they get texthome to seven four to one, seven
four to one. And that's greatbecause immediately you have somebody if you don't

(22:19):
have anybody to talk to it rightnow, these are people that immediately you
talk to, that are trained andthat are ready to go for you.
And again, it's about getting youthrough those critical moments. Okay, you
know those those of us with anxietydepression, you do have these critical moments
and what are your supports, whatdo you call those compensatory measures? What

(22:41):
are those compensatory measures? And howdo you weather that's storm? Sure you
come out the other end of it. Yeah, that's great. Yeah,
yeah, because really it takes justone bad moment that might just be a
fleeting moment. It might be theonly moment. Sure, and if you
know so, that's really interesting.And this is where the support comes in,

(23:04):
even I think from a personal standpoint, family standpoint, to be there
for each other in situations like that. I think it's really important to pay
attention to what's going on with siblings, with parents at any age really because
it's people miss it, you know, because people get busy. But I
think it's really important to make ityour business to know how everybody's doing.

(23:26):
I really do, because I thinkthat's probably the best preventative on an overall
is to catch it person a person, family member to family member, friend
a friend. Spend the time.If you think someone's going through something,
speak up, try and get themto talk about if you know they've been
through something, and especially with everythingeverybody's been through in the in the in

(23:48):
the past, you know, fourteenmonths, I do think it's it's critically
important that we that we show somecompassion, and I think I think right
now selflessness is in high tom.It's a thing that we should really start
doing, essentially putting others before ourselves. That'll put you in a thought position
of being there for others, andI think that would be a great you

(24:11):
know, I know, and thisis just I think this is something that
I'm dealing with right now. Isthis idea of really, when you see
someone you know, I always thoughtI always think this, and maybe this
is off topic, but when peopleare doing something or acting a certain way
and some people think that guy's thisor that, I always think, well,
why is he that way? There'ssomething that's happened that is causing these

(24:34):
behaviors. Sure, and so Ithink sometimes if we and we see this
in families, people are angry,they're lashing out, whatever it is.
Sometimes if you can get to thecore of what it is, right,
it can alleviate some of what's goingon. And so I just think,
I guess my point is from personto person, on a humanistic standpoint,
we should I think we should bea little bit more sensitive to what people

(24:57):
are dealing with or going through.I absolutely agree. You know, I'm
not a trained clinician. I assumeyou aren't either. No, but you
know it's not like we're a muchpsychiatrists here or something. But uh,
you know what we offer our skills, the way we can, we contribute
in the ways that we can,and sometimes they're just a listening here.
You know, I'd much rather calland I've done it before, I call

(25:18):
up a friend and say, youknow, are you really okay? You
know this, this has made meworry that this, this, and this
happened. And I'd far rather overreact, you know, with with a friend,
with a loved one or a neighbor, rather than just completely just turn
a blind eye to it. Absolutely, yeah, agreed. Well great,
Hey, I thank you for youknow, for coming on here. It's

(25:40):
invaluable what you're bringing to the table. Uh. And I think this is
going to be amazing and and andI said it to a snapper, We're
gonna have you guys back for sure, because I'm looking forward to following the
progress of this and seeing the goodthat it's going to do. And I
think once this thing gets going,I think it's going to be a big
game changer. And I think it'sgoing to start to prevent suicide, which

(26:03):
is the whole game, the wholename of the game. I think it's
a it's I'm excited about what's comingdown the road. Excellent. Well,
I really appreciate this. It's anhonor sort of meeting. You really glad
to sort of have this kind ofattention to what we're doing, sure,
and really look forward to making animpact, making a difference here. Yeah,

(26:23):
thank you man. Thanks again.I can't say enough thank you for
listening to the Paul Junior Podcast.You can find Paul online as Paul Cuttle
Junior on Instagram, Paul Junior Designson Facebook, Where is Paul Junior on
Twitter? And Paul Junior Designs onYouTube. Get more info on Paul's dealership
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(26:45):
on the show, email us atpodcast at Paul Juniordesigns dot com