Ep. 60 - The Hopefulx Episode

Hello friends and enemies of the PoddyC Podcast. In this episode Dratnos, and Dorki have brought on a friend and foe - Hopefulx. With max being unavailable we decided the best course of action was to invinite someone from his biggest competition to come spill all the beans on everything (not actually). Hope you enjoy! hehe

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, hey, welcome episode sixty of The Body C. This
week we've killed Max and replaced him with Hopeful.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome, Welcome to the podcast. Have we had you on
the show?

Speaker 1 (00:10):
I feel like I feel like I've talked to you recently,
but it might have been just after the md I. Okay, yeah,
so I guess why don't you introduce yourself to our
our audience.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yeah, sure, my name is Hopeful. Obviously I played Mage
for Echo, previously played Mandatory for the last md I
and the last TEJB. Before that, uh four, I was
in Echo. I was in Instant Dollars before that is
a random guild. But yeah, that's about it.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Hell yeah, So this week we've got we've got you on. Obviously,
we're not gonna spill any secrets about Race World first
they're coming up, because you know, everybody's locked down the
information for that. Although I will say I've heard mages
looking pretty good, so it should hopefully be exciting tear
for you.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
But obviously, I mean I hope.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
So yeah, we'll see what, We'll see how it all
turns out. There has been some class balance recently that
is going to affect m plus a lot, so we
could maybe start there with the brutal killing of augmentation
EVOCRE in the streets.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
I don't know if you guys saw this the uh.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
I was hearing about that. I heard Alex complaining already.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, closest clutch Mat Scott.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
So okay for the story for anybody who hasn't been
falling along this BEATA cycle.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
OGG.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
They nerved it so that it doesn't affect tanks and
healers anymore, just affect everybody else. And then they were like, okay,
well and M plus obviously now it's only buffing two
people instead of four, so we're going to bring back
that old passive where it's stronger in non rage, right
in smaller groups. And they made that come in at
twenty five percent more powerful ebonmites and breadths of yonds
and stuff. They nerved that down back down to just

(01:48):
ten percent, so you literally are only buffing two people
and it's only ten percent stronger than in RAID when
you're buffing four people. And they nerved a bunch of
other stuff about the O kit as well. They nerved
like how much damage breath of yonds does. Yeah, that
speck looks dead as hell for M plus, which I'm
so excited. I'm personally so excited. I don't know about
you guys, but I am looking forward to a season
without OGG hopefully.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
I'm so excited. It's been meta in every single comp
since it came out. I think an unplus every single
LA meta comp.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, there's too because I remember there's been many seasons
where we talk about, oh, you know, like this might
be a season where OGG is actually dead for good
and that happened having patches. Has it been there like four.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Or three There's been three real seasons with OGG, right,
and then the awakened season. So oh yeah, kind of
four seasons with OG. And I think of the top
like two thousand keys five hundred from each season, OGG
is in something like eighteen hundred of them or something
like that.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
It's a crazy amount and total.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, and you guys interview with uh scarz Art, you
guys actually talked a little bit about wait no, actually no,
it's not you guys.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
I think it's the different interaction Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, yeah,
where they talked about, uh, how they've liked the idea
of having an OG and you know, it's like something
that's similar to a healer, but not necessarily a healer.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
Yeah, it seems like they've been a fan of OG
and maybe it's just been like too long now and
people haven't complained too much if they finally have to
knock them down a notch.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
I mean, you're definitely right that we do say, oh,
this is the season where they're killing Og, or like
we're maybe we don't play OG, right. I feel like
we have said that going into Dragonfly season three and
then going into War Within, and it's like not been
true yet. So I but I do think that I
think it's just gonna be nice. I'm I've enjoyed, like
I played OG to title in one of those seasons,

(03:49):
and it is kind of a cool play style, but
like it's just it was just so good every single
one of those seasons right where just and it felt
so like bad to not be playing with an OG
in your group. You know, if you ever you ever
try and zone in without an OG and you're just like,
oh man, this is awful.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
It's so nice having AG because like for the last
three seasons you just had someone just do all like
the the healer jobs. Basically that's so now. I mean,
it's I'm kind of happy it's August finally no longer
ben it. But now you're gonna have to like dps
are gonna have to step up and like start doing
more stops and like just everything the OG was doing.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
Nah. Yeah, I would say we got to bring them
back healer jobs. It's been a while. I mean, like,
you guys remember when all these jobs like I'm gonna
go start RP having to do all your ccs and
have it like having it all do all these little
jobs used to be called the healer job. But augmentation
took that job for the past four patches, and we
got to bring that back.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
It used to be. There was the season where it
was moon can work as well. You guys.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Remember it was in shadow Lands when uh prop Palis
were like or Holy Palies were doing ash and hollow
and doing more damage than the Moon can.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Then the Moon can have to do the jobs. That
was a good season.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, Okay, there has been some other happenings as well,
so there were some other balanced changes in there. But
I think the one thing that you guys brought up
that is also interesting because there's been a series of
developer interviews, including me and Max had one with Scarzard
and then raider Io had one with like Morgan Day
and Katrina Yeppiz. I'm not sure if that's the fromization.

(05:19):
I only read the summary of that one, but that
one was like a M plus one focused one, which
is pretty cool and rater Io like did a big
write up on it. So, uh, that was good to
see kind of smished stuff. Was there anything in any
of the interviews that have come out recently that you
guys thought was particularly interesting?

Speaker 4 (05:40):
Have you seen a hopeful the rare one?

Speaker 3 (05:43):
I saw like half of it, but not too much.
I saw those scars Are one.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
Yeah, Scars Yeah, I was watching it too. Yeah, Scars
Are is awesome. If we can have them on potty Seed,
I'd be amazing.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
Well yeah, I mean I'm pretty sure everyone's a fan
of Scars art. The party crew has.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Been the more behind It was like we've been trying
to get him on Body See for a year or
something like since we started the actually since.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Before we started the promotion.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, we've been trying to because, like you know, he's
he's like Buddies in the and Max to some extent.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
So we've Yeah, in fact, that was the only reason
we started Potty specifically to get Blizzards to somehow get
one of these guys on.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Then what I ended up getting approved was just a
thirty minute, you know, two on one interview thing, which
was also great. But hopefully it's the success of that
interview will I mean they'll let him do a full
podcast episode or something in a future season, because yeah,
I thought that was super interesting. The M plus one though,
was also super interesting because the scars aren't one was like,

(06:46):
because because he he has a tendency to give long answers,
we didn't actually get that many questions in which was great.
I mean, his answers are were really interesting, but uh,
the Radario one got a full ten questions in which
some of the things like they talked about how the
squirrel MC thing, which anybody who's been following or who

(07:07):
hasn't been following along, they took that out of Mechagon
for this season, which is pretty hype I think, And
they explained a little bit of you know, their thought
process there and shifting the difficulty like in theater pay
and having a different part be difficult, having different parts
be the hard part than when it was last A dungeon,
which it was definitely an interesting, interesting look at things.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
Yeah, I would have liked to hear scars Are talk
about valor stones. That would have been really interesting because
you're not the only.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:39):
Yeah, he probably would have given like a really good
explanation of like why exactly they came over that whole system.
But uh, there was one thing that actually was interesting
that scars Are said, like, what if they just buffed
the boss because we were talking about the or well,
you guys were talking about the difficulty curve, right, and

(08:00):
he said, you know, maybe not nerving open x or
kay Veza was the right move, and maybe it was
better to just like have harder previous bosses. And in
my mind that was like it all sounded kind of
wild because I'm just expected like, O, so what if
this means that instead of just one shot in the
first four bosses, it became doing first boss, you know,

(08:21):
it's still probably like one shot, and then second boss
probably like five ten poles, third boss probably like twenty thirty,
and then fourth boss rational probably like forty fifty like that.
That would be crazy, right, So what do you guys
think about that?

Speaker 3 (08:37):
I personally like harder early bosses because it feels so
weird how they like that. They kind of they just
forced to do the current tuning, where like the first
couple they want to be easy, and then by the
fifth boss in the raid it's supposed to get hard,
but the fourth the fifth boss jump is just crazy.
Like this year, at least Rasan was like one pole
and then Broucee Twister felt like an actual boss. It

(08:58):
was like eighty poles or something. Crazy. Think she had
like make a rate compro towards a lot of guilts
are at the same like we're on brew Twister. When
the worries of the world's first gilt are on brew Twister,
I think something like that. It's not ideal of it.
I would like, like Rash on Instagram, we're a little harder.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
But yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
So first of all, like Raha and Sikrin are, they're
not necessarily one pull boss, Like there are a lot
of guilds that wipe on the early bosses as well,
but you know, those are the guilds that those bosses
are for. But like even for those guilds, I do
think it was a little bit Again, it's like a
combination of those bosses were too easy and then overn
Acts and Kaiveza were too hard, right, And like, yeah, exactly,

(09:37):
you could take down overn Actions and ky first of all,
like no matter what you're doing in Rational and Kuiveza,
and that in the state that it launched in was bad, right,
overn Acts, the way the difficulty was delivered on that
fight where it was like super weak or intensive, was
also bad. I don't think anybody would disagree with that.
But like, do you take down overn Acts and breod
Twister or Overnacs and Kaiveza by like ten percent or

(09:59):
do you take them down by twenty percent? You're taking
down by thirty percent?

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Right?

Speaker 1 (10:03):
And then like do you bring up ration In and
sick Grand by a little bit as well? And if so,
by how much? Right? Like, there's there are a lot
of different right answers that involve I think always involve
some nerfing of kai Veza and oven Acts, and then
can involve some buffing of Sickran and brew Twister as well,
and I think should as well.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
I do think those should have been harder, harder fights.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, yeah, ultimately I would say it was just it's
just really hard nowadays because of how little bosses we
have for how many types of players that exist in
the whole cutting edge space.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Again, that's the problem with like, the best guilds are
getting better and better every tier, right and like whereas
that the low end mythic guilds are not in the
same pace. They're still getting better every tier, but not
at the same rate, and new guilds are entering mythic
that haven't played it before. Speaking of guild stuff, there's
been some guild drama on Twitter recently.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Act rather everything happened wait hartually before we get into
the bad hopeful, There's been a lot of people, haven't
that have been asking in my chat, especially during the
md I, they want to know what the drama was
between you and your former team. I wouldn't say drama going.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
On, no drama whatsoever, just person of all, because I
think people actually started to leave you. I mean I
basically just left because with them now doing like the
md I and the TGP every single season, especially with
the race. I mean it was my first time doing
like an actual race and actual prep. So going from

(11:37):
the Race world first, it ended great. I get a
one to two week break maybe and then MDI practice starts,
and then by the time MDI is over, we have
maybe a month break, and it's like, I mean not
even a month break. I know, Mandatory is practicing even before,
like even after like a week or two after MDI practice,
they go straight in the GGV practice in the TGP,

(11:59):
and now we're still prepping for the next race. During
the whole TGP, like the people miditory were going through
like with the race in Echo and then like prepping
for the race and TGP. It was crazy. I would
have gotten insane if I did all of that. That's
basically why I left it. I think it's just way
too much right now. If you want to do the
race and either MDI or GGP, I think like at

(12:20):
a certain point people are gonna have to start choosing
between the two.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
I think this season in particular, because there was like
Christmas right in the middle, and that sort of pushed
md I earlier and TGV later, and like that made
both of them encroach on the races on both sides,
made it like especially nasty. But yeah, I mean you
could basically be like a full time PDE, you know,
exactly no breaks, which playing Race World like playing at

(12:47):
the level you have to play out to play in
Race World first. I've always thought was sort of predicated
on being able to chill for a month before and
afterwards because it's just so intensive when it actually is
going on. So yeah, I think that that's good to
be something where we'll see whether there are people that
can sustain that. I mean, for the longest time, Echo
sustained that among their MDI team, also being on the

(13:09):
raid team and like playing a lot for that for
the MDI team, although I guess even then they still
took breaks and you know, just came in and like
a month before the md I started blasting.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yeah. Well also back then, it's not like a lot
of prep was gone into either compared them now. It's
like now it's every second you can, you're basically in
a dungeon or in a raid, like prepping for the
next thing, you know.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, absolutely So no drama between you and many.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
Okay, man, I mean I heard it it was going
to be like a boxing match or something like crazy
shit going down when you guys meet up over have
an Echo facility.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
Oh I'm always down for a boxing Max always down.

Speaker 4 (13:51):
Okay, going back into the JB drama.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, so this is the thing I was alluding to, which.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
So JP tweeted that, well, team, I found that tonight
that I failed my nine month trial and my new
guild probably not enough time to find a new guild
before this tier, so we might just take a break
from WOW for a bit, maybe a long bit, and
then he added on to this later with for what
it's worth, the nine month trial made sense given the circumstances,

(14:21):
and I didn't have an issue with it, just would
have liked to get a chance to find a new
guild with more than one week before the next season.
And I assume they agree they fucked up that part
pretty badly. So this has led to a lot of
discourse around this specific action, which I think almost everybody
agrees is pretty shitty for the goal, but also, like
trials in general, the practice of trialing raiders whether a

(14:46):
nine month trial is a reasonable amount of time for
a trial or not, whether it even makes sense to
have trials in this day and age. I think Echo
does trials right, but Liquid doesn't. Yep, that's something. There
are some guilds that don't do trials. I think most
guilds do still.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Do trials, but yeah, majority, I think.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, some will be like, okay, it's four weeks tops, right,
and then you're in or you're out. My guild does trials.
We do trials where like your trial can last it
doesn't really matter how long it is, right, It's like
a tier, right, we need to see you for a
progression tier, not just so if we.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Recruit you during farm, it's your.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Trial is not gonna be passed based on farm. It
might be failed, but it won't be passed based on farm,
which I think is a reasonable as well. So when
you talk about in a nine month trial, like, the
only way I could see a nine month trial being
fair is if you were like just on the edge
between passing and failing in that one tier or you
like didn't play that tier for whatever reason. And it's

(15:43):
not because we thought you sucked. It's just because like
you were a druid one trick and it wasn't a
druid tier or something like that, in which case I
could maybe see extending the trial to another tier.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
But still, yeah, nine months is a long time.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
I'm pretty sure we've done that like once in my
guild's history to have a trial go that long.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
But well, well, the circumstance was a we're trialing during
season four faded season, which isn't you know, really a season,
so like you can't really gauge someone fully and you
can't really get a real trial going. So I mean
maybe it's like closer to five months, I want to say,

(16:18):
of like an actual season trial.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Right, Yeah, It's like he only did answerc progue, Like
it's only so it is only one tiers prog is
included in that nine months.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
I guess.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
Yeah. But when I have a question, so what exactly
is the difference between a trial and a member like
what changes?

Speaker 3 (16:38):
I think it depends highly on the guild. Like most
guilds they just treat trials exactly like normal raiders. Some
guilds just go like, oh, you're a trial, Like what
are you saying to me? Like I think you're gonna
get all in between? Like it just depends.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Some guildts will do trial like threads, where you know
there's a thread that the person can't see that the
other people can type about how that person's playing, and
you're trying to decide if they're good enough to play
with you or not. My guild does that, but I
know a lot of guilds that do that, there's like
a feeling that the threads just devolve into flaming the person,
which is definitely like a pretty toxic you know set up.

Speaker 4 (17:19):
Yeah, I mean like even like if you're a member, like,
would you not be judged just as much as a trial?
I don't know, I find that to be kind of strange.
I don't I feel like if you're just someone who
like freshly joined versus compared to someone who like has
been in the guild, surely if that person who has
been in the guild still has to play to that standard, right.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
And I think that's a lot of like Liquid's argument
for not having trials anymore. It's just like, yeah, everybody's
always you know, if we recruit you, it's because we
think you're good. And then everybody in the guild is
constantly you know, you're on the chopping block at all times.
If you if you suck, we're gonna kick you, right
And it doesn't matter whether you've been here for one
tier or ten. But I do think it makes some sense, right,

(17:58):
like if you've got a new personn just like the
trial flag is kind of indicating Okay, everybody pay attention
to this person or like pay extra attention to how
they're moving, how they're playing, right, so that you can
then evaluate them kind of as a group, and then
if they do well, you kind of move them into
the raider rank where there's less scrutiny on them. Right,
You're not like actively scrutinizing them. You're kind of more

(18:20):
passively checking, right, You're you're noticing that they've done something
wrong rather than looking to see if they've done things
Brett well or not. I think it can make sense
for that spot. Some guilds also do it for like
it used to be back in the day trials get
less gear. I don't think any serious guilds do that anymore.
That's like that's just stupid, right, No.

Speaker 4 (18:43):
Yeah, or like you know you might not get as
many like consumables or whatever, maybe, like because you know,
it made sense back in the things when there was
like more to rating outside of just like progression and
getting it done, like it was kind of just like
entire home, right, But.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
You might get smaller cuts as well, or no cuts
potentially from sale, which I know some guilds do that
to a greater or lesser Except my guilt does a
you don't get cuts if you didn't prog this tier
with us unless you're actually helping us kill the end boss,
Like if we picked answers the trial and then you're
we only actually we added this, uh this tier because
we picked up a bunch of trials and then they

(19:17):
weren't obviously in on answer AC but then they were
still getting these huge cuts from answer X sales that
they weren't ever participating in. So we were like, okay,
let's give them half cuts for until people are actually
killing answer AC the on answer X sales, which I
care the way, but I think it's fair ish, right.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Like, yeah, I think cutting their cut completely wouldn't be fair,
but I guess half is.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
You know, I I don't have a like again, this
wasn't my people were like complaining, so we decided, idea, yeah,
I'm taking all those extra cuts they're on mine.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
But yeah, I mean, uh no, the way Echo does
trial thing, guess I can explained that. So basically, when
you join, you're just a trial and then the next
year you're basically promoted or you failed your trial, so
no longer a trial after the last year they promoted me. See,
I think I don't know, it feels weird because I
know Liquid has no trial thing, but I think Echo

(20:20):
does it just for like logistic reasons, like even though
I was a trial like I was in on almost
every boss ex A Brew Twister, that it's not like
they you treat you any differently except for like just
as like a title, you know.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, I think it can make some sense this kind
of because it's kind of like this transition period where
you're being initiated or assimilated into the guild like structure, right.
So yeah, I don't know's it is a weird because
I do think it's a somewhat abused There are some
guilds that definitely abuse the trial position, and that kind

(20:56):
of gives it a bad name. And also this kind
of so of course, the big crime I'm with the
JB situation is that he got he got lobbed a
month before or a week before a new tier, right
like that. Yeah, if you're a guild, you kind of
I think one month before the tier you got to
decide if you're kicking anybody and and do it then
or or forever hold your piece until next year, because

(21:17):
it's just or unless unless something happens obviously, right, but
like presumably they just they decided they wanted to kick
him and they just kept him around for farm to
make farm easier or something like that.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
I know some gilds go even further, like if they're
doing splits or something, they'll keep in trials just for
the splits, like at split helpers, but they wouldn't tell
them stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Which is super best up. I've heard of that as well.
I've heard of people getting kicked after week one after
helping them with splits, which is completely crazy. There's also
guilds that will kind of like soft kick you where
they're never actually going to remove you, but you're never
going to be in and just there, you're you're there, Oh,
you're helping with splits and stuff, but like you know,
there's like a one percent JITs you're actually going to

(21:57):
see any progression, which is not actually inherently an unfair situation.
The unfair part is that they don't tell the person that.
You can tell people that though, and some people are
okay with it, but yeah, that's that's a messed up
thing that happens in guilds.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
Yeah, from my guild experience, I've noticed a lot of
guilds do that, Yeah, because I mean maybe it's just
like more than anything, but players have a hard time
telling over players like oh, like we're not going to
have you in, so it's easier to just have them
sitting in the bench ent hard time until they eventually
leave themselves.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
It's crazy though, because it seeing this kind of made
it clear like just how important it is. Like you know,
this is like a full time streamer, content creator guy,
and whether or not he plays World of Warcraft this
season is like predicated on this guild interaction, right, And
I think it kind of underscorees just how important for

(22:55):
a lot of wild players like a guild is to
the game. It reminds me that because there are people
that that's not true for right, like Dorky for instance.
You I think are somebody where you got a lot
from your guild tomorrow it would be like a logistical annoyance,
but it wouldn't change the game really for you. But
then there are a lot of three that's the biggest thing.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, JB wasn't like this before, Buddy, I definitely noticed that,
Like JB now just like doesn't care as much about
M Plus I want to say just kind of sucks.
I mean, dw O seven so JB, but he said
he's gonna take a break from the game for an
indefinite duration, and that really sucks because he's been such
an iconic part of M plus forever. I mean, he

(23:36):
was one of the first M plus streamers I've ever watched,
and he's just been a big figure. It just sucks
to ce in him. I don't want to say quitting,
but pretty much quitting.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, taking a break or for however long it ends
up being. Yeah seven indeed, uh in lighter hearted news,
something I've been seeing a lot also on X the
Everything app a lot of people have been killing zek
Vier on like question mark question mark difficulty then celebrating
it on there, which I think is Yeah, I was

(24:06):
something where you know, that reminded me a little bit
of like the Mage Tower.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
I remember back when the Maine Toowers.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
I think people would would post that and obviously like
it would come in at different times, right, like because
Mage Tower was super hard at the start of the
when it first came out, and then it got easier
over time. Zakhier sort of did they nerved it a
lot like a couple weeks in. But other than that,
it's just been gear that's making it easier. But I
think that's cool. That's made me excited for Delves to

(24:34):
have some of that Mage Tower feel for it. Even
if the ceiling difficulty that Zekier landed at after they
nerved it is definitely a lot lower than you know,
Mage Tower, but it is still really cool to see.
It's really cool to see people like being able to
set themselves a solo challenge and then accomplish it and
feel really proud about themselves. So yeah, congratulations everybody who

(24:56):
got that or who's still trying.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
Good luck if you are. We talk about it is like.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Going from like ID level guilt or going from yeah, okay,
let's we can talk about going from like a random
guild to ID to echo Like what that sort of vibe.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
I mean, I kind of talk about like my process
and what I did.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Sure, yeah, okay, so I guess I'll splices and now
there's no way he'll have left in this entire awkward minute.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
No, he would never do that to me.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
I we just started this very start, because I guess
it's not that long. I just started playing. In eight
point three played a Holy fouled in and I think
one Tuesday night, I'm like, oh, I want to raid.
You know, I only like PvP before, and I joined
a trade chat guild who were just rating they needed
a fill and I actually joined that guild. I was
playing there for like three or four months, just like

(25:45):
I don't know, we get experiences like build logs or whatever.
And then after I was like, oh, I should probably
get in a better guild. And then I joined a
guild called the Sissog's where I kind of stayed for
like a couple of months. It was like first ce
guild in the same tier, and then I played that
tier at them all the farm and then I played

(26:06):
most of Castle Nather with them. I think we got
stuck in with the council and I got kind of
not annoyed, but like we were on council for like
over a month. You know. They were like just like
a one K rank cutting elge guild. They got cutting
ledge of every single touch, but I just wanted to
do more. And then like from the difference between those
two guilds wasn't much. The second one, it was kind

(26:29):
of just like more like more committed. The first one
was like just one one two raight nights a week,
like just casually, like you just do whatever outside of
rad The second one it was more there's people running
m plus every day. There's people like actually talking about
the raid fights while they were progging it. So it's
like a tiny difference. And then I joined a guild

(26:49):
called Idiot, which is around the world wearing three hundred
and that's where it started getting like more intensive, not
more intensive, but like just more exact same difference from
the first to second guild. So like would raid three
nights a week, I think for a couple hours, but
there was a lot more prep outside, like everyone's talking

(27:12):
to each other. It's more of a community of like
higher and higher keys run, just more topics talking. So
it's just like another step off from that. And then
I was in a guilt for like a year or two,
and then I joined Instant Dollars.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
How did you go about like jumping up these guilt
Like how did you go from it get into idiot
and then get into id Like what was the did
you want?

Speaker 4 (27:33):
In fact, how did you even get into your first
cutting edge guild? Because I feel like a lot of
people away.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
I go from trade Chat.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah, So from the trade Chat guild I knew like
I watched I watched a lot of videos of like
how to climb guild or whatever. I had like what
guilds looked for. And since I was healing, it was
kind of weird, but like I knew, not the best
of the best guilts, but like the guilds I was
moving into. The next cared a lot about healing farces.
So that's exactly what I did. I was like standing

(28:00):
and stuff, healing myself, pulling a dryne where I would
just beacon myself and standing everything. I watched them a
lot to do that, and I got a lot of like
tips from that. But so I just got like, I
think all my parces were like orange or something up
at the first five, and that's the way they're progging still.
And then I uh aft to the guild called Scissygis
and then there were a C guild and they just

(28:22):
needed a holy fun at the time. So it's kind
of lucky timing and they just thought my logs looked good.
And then it's just the exact same thing and just
every single boss. I would just try to parse as
side as I can, just try to do as much
healing as I can because I knew guilds cared about that,
and eventually, like eventually I would stop caring about that
because I know they don't actually matter, but for what

(28:43):
I'm doing, I need to get to the next guilt.
It needs to matter for me. Yeah, So that's basically
all I did until I joined Idiot, and then halfway
through Idiot, it's kind of you're kind of like established
at that point. It was like World during two or
three hundred, and it's at that point people aren't I
don't really care too much about you. I mean, they
still care about healing parses, but like not too much.

(29:04):
But it was kind of easy because in Sanctum, I think,
is when I swapped them age and then it was
the exact same thing. Is if I wanted to get
the better guilds, DPS, parses mattered way more than healing
parces at that so I just I just went for
parses and just I made that my whole personality. Kind
of I knew guilds only cared about that. If I

(29:28):
could get Rank one on workoff Log and get any
gal that I want, And I mean, that's basically what happened,
except a couple of the Instant Dollars players were actually
watching my stream while I was progressing Razigeth and Idiot,
so they already knew, like they watched me play and
they knew my parts were good. So that's how I
kind of got the trial and incant dollars, and that's
how that happened. But I mean, if you're just still

(29:50):
climbing guilds, it's it's still just parses. No matter what.
If you parse really well, you'll get a trial on
the guild. You just have to make sure you obviously
don't like die or whatever in your trial and like
performed by but parsones gets you into the door really easily.

Speaker 4 (30:03):
Yeah, it sucks. That's the culture because I mean, like
parsing shouldn't be what players are chasing after during progression
at least, but you know, that is the only way
these Gills know how to.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, it's because Okay, so I thought of that as
a lot. I think it's because up to a certain point,
players can't do the rotation, so the Gills look for
players who can do the rotation as a base level
because they know they can teach you to like, oh,
don't die here, like, don't play less, agree to hear,
so they know you have the base fundamentals of like

(30:37):
I can hit my buttons, And it's easier to teach
how to play safe and like how to do mechanics
in like a generic sense than how to exactly play
your class. So I think it makes sense, but it
definitely is a little weird.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
You should be able to do a lot of damage, right,
like yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
But I mean at the same time, what makes it
tricky is like sometimes what I've noticed with parts players
is either one the very eagles too big, too like actually,
like if you tell them not to do something right,
they're gonna do it anyways. So you can't really necessarily
teach these guys. And I feel like the second thing
is they are often greedy and they're not like actually

(31:16):
good like you hopeful, like you're you're trying to parse
while not dying, but visias are just parsing and you're
just fucking dying.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
I'd say that's also the second, Like, if you get
really good parsis and you never die, you can basically
go anywhere.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, I mean that because that's what you're obviously like
an insane player if that's true, But like I think
it's you know, if you're looking at somebody, If if
we're looking at somebody from a world rank three hundred
guild and they're not doing like massive damage, like what
how can that person be a a player that will
be a good player and a better guild, right, Like

(31:51):
they're they're in a guild that's progressing more slowly, right
because they're lower world rank or playing less hours per day.
But you know they should be if they're in one
of these guilds is lower world rank, they're getting more
polls on these bosses, they're playing with worse players in them.
Like what are they going to be doing with all
that extra time on each boss except for optimizing the
hell out of doing a lot of damage?

Speaker 3 (32:10):
Right?

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Like I don't know a good player should be able
to do that, right And like obviously a bad player
can also do that sometimes, or like a player can
do that and not have the capacity to also do
jobs or mechanics or something like that, Like, but there's
no way to filter for that, right, Like that's something
that you've just got to figure out. Whereas you can
at least know that they do good damage and if

(32:31):
somebody's doing great damage, Like they're probably pretty good. You know,
it's probably if they are consistently doing great damage on
mythic bosses. You know, they're living those fights. Maybe they're
maybe they're build only kills bosses on the polls where
they don't end and they at half the polls. Like
sometimes that happens, but it's at least more effective than
nothing to look at, right, Like, if you pop up
in somebody's warcraft logs and it's a mythic and it's

(32:52):
like all ninety fives are better, or any pop up
in somebody else's and it's like forty three twelve, seventy
three fifty, right, Like, there's a very good chance of
that ninety five's person is a better player, right, Like,
is it possible to that person I'm with the low
parses is just like carrying their raid mechanically or you know,

(33:13):
raid leading or something like that. Like, yeah, it's possible,
but on average, the ninety five person is going to
be a lot better.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
Yeah. Funny story. So back in Legion, when I was
just pugging keys, I was like a four k io
bumkin and some five k io Korean group inviting me
to their key and you know, like I was like
surprised they actually invited me. Like that's a big ile difference.
And you know, like I ended up playing with these
guys and I did pretty well. So if they ended

(33:41):
up adding me and they would like hit me up occasionally,
they weren't like, you know, my main push group or anything.
It was just like I was like the pug guy
that they would just occasionally invite to play with them.
And so you know, like it was like one random
time after a couple sessions of playing with them, I'm like, so,
why didn't you guys even invite me in the first place?
And uh, but Warlick was like, oh yeah, like we

(34:02):
looked up your logs and you had like a bunch
of ninety nine or whatever, like that was the only
reason why we invited you. I'll like, hey, it even
works it up. Plus, like I'm out here will logs
of fact got me invited to higher io groups. I
don't think that really happens nowadays, but that was definitely
a thing before, and it's funny like for opposite two,
it's also true. I've heard from some chatters who like

(34:25):
talked about getting back into rating for the first time
and like I don't know, since like warlers a drain
or whatever, and I'm like, how hell are you guys?
You could just like get into a cutting edge guild
because that's something people ask all the time for someone
who has like not rated for such a long time.
And he was like, oh, you know, I just had
a couple of titles or whatever, and that actually got
him invited into a cutting edge guild. So like these

(34:46):
accolades kind of just carry over.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think, you know, get just
the advice of like, yeah, Gopher parses in these I
think it's weird because like people will give you that
we'll don't with people who don't like that advice. But
I think it's actually that does make a lot of sense.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Like what you say, it's a weird advice because you're
telling them not to play how they should play in
a rap fight just to get in like a better guild,
you know.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, And you know what, honestly, like if you like,
you know, if you're in a guild and it's like, yeah,
you're you see yourself as a mechanical player and you're
doing low damage, Like it actually is true that if
you can do more damage and still live. You will
be becoming a better player, right Like. There are people
that are playing too conservatively and are you know, never
taking any risks, And you will be a better player
if you try and do more damage and also live,

(35:32):
right like, because you need to live to do a
good pars.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
Yes, Just like finding a job. It's like when I
was actually when I was looking for a software engineering
job at the time, the advice that people always gave
was to study leak code, right and study like like
it's basically not it's like bullshit problems that like test
your problem solving, but it's not what you actually do

(35:56):
in the workforce. So it's exactly this example, like you're
like you're doing something that makes your logs look really good,
but you're not actually like good at the job itself.
And I yeah, I mean it's just a shitty way
to go about it, but it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
So how did you get into Echo from from id hopeful?

Speaker 1 (36:21):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (36:22):
I mean I think at that point, once you go
from a guild like INSIDT dollars to one of the
gilds like Liquid to Echo, it just has to be
word of mouth, like as soon as we killed fire Rec,
I got a DM from Echo basically asking like they
just the meate with me. I think if you're generally
I don't want to like say, if you're generally applying
to guilds like that, it's not a good sign. But

(36:44):
if they're reaching out to you, like you just have
to wait for that kind of I don't know. If
you really want like a pipeline, you have to go
to one of the guilds that Echo or Liquid look
at basically, because there it's like the inside dollars vodka
method batch our guests. It's basically guilds that they're just
gonna look at, you know, for players. And then if

(37:04):
you are good enough, I believe like it'll just spread
through word of mouth and you'll get your opportunity.

Speaker 4 (37:10):
Yeah, I think you have a presence. Hopeful. It was
like I mean, at least when I first started playing
keys with you, like it was just like I remember
everyone's always talking about like, Oh, I was like, this
is my buddy Hopeful. He's a really good made you.
Oh yeah, you know Keys with Hopeful, And then the
first thing I see is you just fucking flame striking
mobs to get your overall dair job.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yeah, it's also fun like for parsing too. To get
a better guilds. If you want more viewers on Twitch,
you gotta do more damage on the meters. So that's
when I was also started like stream for the first time,
so I can't to get my number on details higher.
I was doing that.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
It was great, okay, Yeah, and then you build up
like a fan club and the fans and then playing.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
With actual gil, actual M plus groups and actual guilds,
and then I start being like, oh maybe I maybe
I'll fire of blast this mob once in a while,
you know, I'll swaffle.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah that's kind of genius.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, that's like like like just on a cynical level,
like just yeah, pad really hard to get word like
or to get it invites it to stuff and to
like get you know, a stream viewership, and then that
works out.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah tell, yeah makes sense.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
I do think there's Yeah, like doing giga overall as
well in M plus also is also a skill, right
Like again, obviously you want to be able to turn
that off if you're pushing super high keys, but like
there are people, all the best people can do that
if they want to, right, Like, that's something that.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
You should be able to do. Yeah, although I guess
some people don't.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Some people don't really think about like, you know, just
patting with flamestrike and some key to do more overall.

Speaker 4 (38:54):
You know that is actually something like when we're talking
about raiders versus m plus ers, one thing noticed is
when you're in like raid, a lot of raiders are
really good at doing single target and they know how
to do all that, But when it comes to knowing
how to like cleave down mobs or like how to

(39:14):
just like a wee properly, for some reason, it's just
like it's not really there for raiders. You'll see this
was all the time. You'll see like an on certain fights,
m plus or just does so much better at bad
and for the single target fights, the raider just like
suddenly does so much better.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
True. Uh okay, I have another question for you, Hopeful, then,
what was the obviously, like, you did a tier of
Race World first, you won the MDI right after that,
and then you decided that of the two Race World
First is what you were going to continue doing. What
was that experience like, like, how how did you make

(39:55):
that call? And what was playing the Race World first
like that's made. Do you want to keep doing that?

Speaker 3 (39:59):
I think it's just like just what I wanted to
do in the game, basically, Like I've always liked rating
over M plus. I think when I first got into
M plus, it was just something I could continuously do
every day and stream it. It wasn't like like I
enjoyed doing it, but I definitely enjoyed rating way more.
And I think that just carried over to like now,
like I still enjoy rating more than M plus and

(40:21):
I have to pick one, I'd rather just pick rating,
you know. But it's just it's only about enjoyment for me, basically.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
That's kind of interesting. That's actually like a lot of
the liquid players. I've noticed that, like not a lot
of the liquid players are interested in doing M plus,
whereas like with that goal is usually the opposite.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
For a while, it was like four of the top
five md I teams had an echo healer.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
That was something for a while. Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Okay, We've got a Patreon question to go to next.
This one comes from Tally that says, my best memories
of md I are from a tall Tasar freehold and Underwrot,
which you start an eight point three. This is like
kind of before your time, even them. I guess they've
all come back.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah, they all come back, them.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
With their big poles, giving high risk, higher word excitement,
and it feels like we've moved away from that. It
feels like there's little difference between TGP and md I
as they are limited in the polls they can do
because the amount of cast or RP, et cetera. So
my question, my questions are what makes a great MDI
dungeon and what makes a great TGP dungeon. This is
a kind of hurry for you too, huh.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
Oh, I think okay for I think mdiye polls are
still as crazy as they were back then. It's just
you don't know how much goes into the mdypoll. Like,
for example, for practice, you would do one pole for
eight hours, and like any little thing like this, one
mob was one yard to the left, so everything changes

(41:58):
and you have to like plan for that, and like
it's still so dangerous for the MDI that you have
to do nowadays, it's just most of it's just behind
the scenes. You're not even gonna see it. It's gonna
look so lean when you see it. You're like, oh,
how could this ever go wrong? You know, but there's
oftentimes dozens of ways the polk could go wrong throughout
every single pack.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Yeah. I think what this person is mentioning more along
the lines of an MDI is how you don't see
any crazy tech Like we might see hard executed poles still,
but you're not seeing stuff like uh, snapping mobs or
the stuff Echo did during very MDI with Black Girl

(42:41):
called summoning tech and the portals and rise. I think
that's what we're talking more about.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
I think another thing that like these dungeons have in
common as well is like there would be a poll
where it's just like forty count all at once, right,
Like Atolls, our Freehold under Rock kind of all have
that right where it's just like, oh, we're pulling all
the Cragma's room, or like oh we're pulling everything onto
the first spot, like in Freehold, everything onto the first pots, right,

(43:13):
thirty four percent count Atolls is are right, you're going
left and you're pulling all that trash something like that, right,
like which I do think MDI these days usually like
a big pole is probably like half that size. It's
still as difficult, but it's smaller, right, because.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Like, yeah, they keep on adding just tons of things
that each pole, so like you can't just pull everything nowadays.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, which I do. I do kind of empathize, like
I liked the massive polls. I do think you're also
right dorky that like just like crazy tech even something
like squirrels getting taken out of uh out of workshop,
as well as kind of like they don't want you
to be able to, you know, solo the dungeon if

(43:57):
you execute some intricate thing properly, right, something like that.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
They also cut back a lot on tech during MBI,
like if you have something that's like anything off like
standard play, you have to send the exact video strat
to the admins and like say exactly what you're doing.
Percent of the time they're just saying, no, you can't
do this. But I think that's part of the reason too.

Speaker 4 (44:20):
Yeah, that's actually a much larger reason for well, I
mean it's a combination of all of it, honestly. Yeah,
And I mean, like what makes a great MDI in
great TGP dungeon, I think it's like the same thing.
It's what makes a great dungeon in general, at least
for me, like my opinion, I just don't like the
direction that these dungeons are going. But I can see
their vision and I see why exactly we're going for it.

(44:41):
It's just to give a more standard type of experience
across all players like it. Right now, if you're someone
who's doing a plus five key, you're probably experiencing a
very similar dungeon to what a really high key player
is experiencing. But I know, I mean, I mean I
personally preferred it where there was more you could do,

(45:03):
there was more freedom to how you played the dungeons
at a higher level.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, I think there happened some dungeons that have
been better TGP dungeons versus like MDI dungeons.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Maybe not.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
I guess like dom Breakers are better TGP than MDI
dungeon because there's not much you could do.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Although I don't think it's necessarily a great TGP dungeon,
just like not as bad as it is an md I.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, maybe you're right, Dorky, that is just a good
a really fun push key will be a really fun
TGP dungeon. Will it always be a really fun MDI dungeon?
Because sometimes there's.

Speaker 4 (45:43):
Well as it's I mean, do you mean like to
play or to watch, because I think those are super different.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
That's true as well.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah, I guess I'm kind of thinking about this in
terms of like to play, but yeah, definitely to watch.
Is it's kind of more important, uh, for a lot
of reasons.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
Yeah, because like for hopefully for you guys, in the
first and the other season, you played without any affixes, right,
Like what was what is that whole experience?

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Like we played with axes?

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yeah, with the salad okay, I guess.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
Yeah, oh you like no, oh, I see.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Because the MDI was done at the level it was
done like I think it was tens, elevens and twelve.
It was nine, tens, elevens and twelves.

Speaker 4 (46:29):
You practice is really different right from yeah usual.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Which is crazy because ten was where Tyrone or Fort
got added, whichever wasn't done the key, So you had
to practice nines, which had only one of Tyrann or Fort,
and then you also had to do tens and elevens,
which had tyren Fort challenges Peril and his zalatats affics, right,
and then you have to also practice twelves for the
Global finals. Which was guile instead right, and no zalatat effics.

(46:54):
So that's actually kind of like still a lot of stuff,
probably still less bad than practicing.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Way less then practice exactly.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
Yeah, I think as a player, I mean I haven't
played an MDI or tgpole without affixes, so like I
don't exactly know what it's like, but at least you know,
from what I've seen, it seems like you don't have
to worry about different affixes as much, and you can

(47:22):
kind of just like see what other people did during
cups and do something very similar, and just like the
practice is more routine and you're kind of just doing
the same shit, you know, not having to really do
any things too crazy or to two different I should say,
versus like before you might have like a completely different
set of affixes and that'll like completely change the strategy

(47:43):
you do in that dungeon.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
Yeah, exactly. I think there are so many old affixes
where just from affixed affics you change what you did
in the dungeon way more then currently, Like currently you
basically know exactly what you're doing in the dungeon with
like a certain affix, and like it doesn't really change
much if you have like the dis spell effics compared
to like an orb soak efphics. You know, it's pretty
stil amer compared to like back then it was. It

(48:07):
could change drastically for each dungeon sometimes.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Yeah, cool question that one.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Uh, Frank picked a good one for this week because
obviously when the first submitted that they didn't know they'd
be getting hateful hopeful to answer it.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Hateful. Yeah, that's his alter ego.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Yeah, that's what what mandatory is gonna see one day.
When do you think of the new dungeons coming next season?
You guys, uh, any that you're kind of hyped or
worried about. I've I've been seeing a lot of trepidation
around Cinderbrew Meterie.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
I don't know if you guys have done like ptr.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
Testing Google the words you just used.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Trepidation Yeah, vokeab vokeab quarder.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Okay, I got it, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah, A feeling of fear agitation about something that may happen. Yeah,
I don't know. So dungeons, you guys are hyped. You're
not about anybody?

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Got it? Takes on a dark flame.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Cleft and cinderbrew Metery are the ones that I've been
seeing a lot of.

Speaker 4 (49:10):
I have a strong feeling they're trying really hard to
make Cinderbrew likable by it's just like giving it the
Shadow woond Burial Ground treatment. Like it's basically either going
to be one of the easier dungeons.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
And I've heard people say they are Dark Flame as well.

Speaker 4 (49:30):
No, no, yeah, it's for for dark Flame.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
That's what dark flam. Okay, not for Sinderrew.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
Well Cinder I'm not sure. It seems like it's going
to be not really challenging, but yeah, I mean Dark
Flame is the one that needs to be easy, right
like if if they don't, I mean, it's kind of
the same of what happened to dawn Breaker. Like dawn
Breaker was looking really rough and then they just made
it one of the easier dungeons so people didn't end
up hating dawn Breaker.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
I'm pretty gad over all the dungeons, to be honest,
I think, yeah, same. I think there's like season one
it was kind of like I don't think any dungeon
like stood out or was bad necessarily, But I think
season two there's like a couple of good dungeons and
there's I don't think there's a bad dungeon. I think
a lot of people, yeah, do complain about Dark Flame.
I think they just don't like the some of the

(50:18):
gimmicks in the dungeon. I think some of the things
that are just annoying to deal with. But I think
overall the dungeons I'm pretty like positive for. I think
they're all looking pretty good.

Speaker 4 (50:28):
Yeah. Same. I mean, I said a lot of negative
things about season one before season one came out, and
I like, you know, I fully expected season one to
not be amazing with the dungeon and said and how
they went about these dungeons. But season two, I'm pretty
optimistic about it. Seems nice. And I mean, like even
amongst some of my friends who are more doomer, like

(50:52):
of eight, you know, like e Aight is usually critical
about World war Craft and you and he thinks that
season two was looking good, And yeah, I feel exactly
the same.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Hell yeah, I'm also pretty optimistic about it. I think,
you know, it looks like it looks like a lot
of good changes the balance. Like again, if Ogg's dead,
I'm hyped. I'm not even dead, but like if I
can just play without it and not feel like I'm griefing.
I'm hyped tank balance looks better like this, dude, this

(51:25):
season's tank balance got so bad and got like it's
weird because Okay, I guess when we talk about class
balance for M plus season, it feels like it kind
of doesn't even matter what happens in the point zero
patch anymore because the M plus season is always like
what they do in the point five patch.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
Right, Yeah, well, I don't know. I think it still
matters because, like you know, if you're playing for like
the first few months, you want the balance to feel
relatively close. I also feel that way with the balance
season two. I don't know how they did it, but
it seems like everything is much closer, especially with the
most recent patch. I do still hate vie idea of

(52:00):
tanks and healers not feeling ope, Like I swear they
need to make tanks and healers OLP just for once, Like,
please just make them good for ones.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Just for once. Please. We've never we've never gotten to
BOP before. We're just we're just small tanks.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
I've been seeing some tanks do a lot of damage
on PTR recently, not as crazy talk. I think they're
getting close to ving op I some polls by the tank.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
They're probably just abusing some PTR stuff, like they're wearing
some old trinks something that are getting scaled up, and
it's probably not probably Yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
Yeah, I just want to see tanks and healers pop
off and feel good.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
I don't know how you make healers like feel good though.
For tank it's either you just make them do more
damage and like be able to pour more. But like healers,
you're kind of limited to like how much damage it does.
Like who cares if you're a healer like doing damage
when you're doing like a tenth of the damage a
DPS or a tank does.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
No, I don't think. I don't think that's I mean,
like if you're hitting your healing buttons and like you're
actually healing the power of each of your healing buttons
topping someone, I think that's like a huge part to heal.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
Yeah, I guess that's true.

Speaker 4 (53:07):
Yeah, Like like when I'm on my restdritch for example,
and if I like have my ramp going, I want
to see a very h P bar it's just like
shoot up. I don't want to just see it trickling
up slowly and just having a spam regrowth to keep
people top, like I just want my hearts to pop
the hell off.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Yeah, it's weird because like that leads to unhealthy places
for healers. If you got to spot where it's like
any one global tops everybody and like then like healing
doesn't really matter anymore or like being a good healer
because they've kept making these changes where it's like okay, yeah,
but it needs to you know, increase the size of
health bars so that healing feels more like something.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Right.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
You see like the uns healer videos where it's like, okay,
look back at sledge Fist and you know, the thing
about the way that that old healing used to work
is that you didn't just get to top somebody in
one global right, and like you had to actually like
plan it out. And but also somebody wasn't going to die, right,
Like if you left them at sixty percent h P
for ten seconds, they weren't just dead, whereas nowadays if
you ever do that, they're turbo dead.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Right.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
Yeah, I think it was kind of what Dorg you're saying,
Like you're another problem where you want to make healing
more fun, and that's how you make healing more fun.
But hpbar like sling shotting back and forth isn't like
healthy for the game, you know, so they have to
I think I think they find like a balance of it.
It'll be good. But I think one way in either
action is pretty bad.

Speaker 4 (54:25):
Yeah, I mean, healers can never be satisfied, so we
don't have to worry about him. Honestly, Like, whatever you do,
one healer will be upset. It's like all healer has
to do damage that sucks. Dealers don't get to do damage.
That sucks. All healering is too easy. That sucks. Well,
healing's too hard now that also sucks.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, if I play bad, my group dies, that sucks.
Oh how I play doesn't matter. So they replaced me
with a prop paladin that also sucks. The healers they
can't be they'll they're never satisfied.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Man.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
That's why Morgan Day was right, you know, like Morgan Day,
he understood it, he saw a vision he wanted healers deleted.
I hope they have into uh fulfilled Morgan Day's wishes base. Oh,
speaking of which, have you guys seen the Fellowship game?
Have you guys like played it at all?

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Or I played it during like one of the like
six months ago or something. It's kind of weird because
they both the times they've had these play tests, it's
been like awkward times for wow, because the last time
it was like right before Warwickin came out, and now
they're doing one and it's like right before the new
season comes out, so I'm already like I've skipped this
new Poe event as well. That also looks super sick
and I wanted to play, but I've heard it's it's

(55:32):
shaping up really nicely, so I for anybody wh doesn't
know Fellowship, it's like it's basically like M plus only game.
It's like plus not really the MMO components. It's literally
just like QPD m plush over and over again, with
like classes that are specifically designed for M plus and
uh mob mechanics that kind of like scale up with
the key level because it has like key levels as well,

(55:53):
and you can kind of choose which affixes go on
the keys. I don't know, it seems super sick, it seems
it seems really cool.

Speaker 4 (56:00):
Yeah, I heard there's a playtest on the twenty four,
so yeah, I see, I might check it. I'm not sure,
it's kind of himing tight because you know, it's like
right before the patch comes out. Yeah, but I check
it out. I saw Tittles was streaming it. He was
actually playing with Pete and Squishy and a bench squad
all of those losers over there. But it looked oh yeah,

(56:23):
oh yeah. I mean, I don't like those guys. If
they are terrible, terrible podcasts. I don't even know how
anyone watches them. But yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah.
I was watching their stream. I never did a podcast,
and it seemed interesting, like some of the bosses were
pretty cool. There was like some really interesting mechanics. HP

(56:44):
bars are also moving really slow in that game. I
wonder how Pete feels about healing that game. I'm actually
very curious to hear what he thinks interesting.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yeah have you have you seen it all? Nopeball any No,
I haven't.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
I'll watching videos of it right now.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Okay, Yeah, didn't even know about it.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
I've seen some like it's kind of to me.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
I don't think I would play it too much because
I think I actually do like the MMO stuff around them. Plus,
but I think there are a lot of people that
don't and that this is going to be super sick
for if they just want, you know, all the dungeons
and none of the grind.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
It's one of those games that would be fun to
mess around with. Have you guys played battle Y before.
I don't know if you guys.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
That's the Moba Battle Royale.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
I remember playing it a while ago. Yeah, like six
years ago.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Oh okay, it was a while ago.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Okay, this is different of different one.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
It's like an arena game kind of.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
I see.

Speaker 4 (57:47):
It's like literally World warld Craft arenos, except it's you're
playing like League of Legends.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
Yeah. I played it for like a week.

Speaker 4 (57:53):
Yeah, I actually played the hell out of game and
it was like super fun. But it's not something that
has longevity and mhm, it's it doesn't. It just doesn't
have a player base. And I'm imagining the same will
happen to Fellowship, which sucks. I mean, like, these games
are really fun, it's just you can't really maintain a
player base. You can't really keep up with content, especially

(58:18):
if it's an m plus like M plus has to
be developing new dungeons every so often. So I don't know,
we'll see where it goes from here. I hope it
does well, but I also have no idea what to expect,
and I really like, there's no way I would ever
like play this over World of war Craft because of
them aspects.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
How you enjoyed being a major one track upful?

Speaker 3 (58:39):
Is that? Oh it's great?

Speaker 2 (58:41):
You glad?

Speaker 3 (58:43):
Yeah? I think okay. That was also like a big
thing when I was swapping off Heeler, because I knew
I didn't want to be in a position where if
my tuning in my class was bad, I just wasn't
gonna play. Like it didn't matter how good I was
at all. It's just in my class wasn't tuned well,
I just wouldn't play, and like a like a good
guilt if I ever got the one. So that was

(59:04):
like specifically one I was looking at. So I think
it like I just picked all the rain buff classes
basically and then narrowed it down to a couple where
like I'd be like, okay, I could play this, you know.
I narrowed it down to like as like Warrior, Mage, Lock,
and I think I think Major was just the most
fun out of all of them, and I'm I'm still
got to pig Mage. I think just like just being

(59:27):
a mage is great. Majored to broker for twenty.

Speaker 4 (59:30):
Years, Yeah, must be nice. Actually, wait, hold on, I
have a really important question for you, hopeful.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Huh.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
So you said you pvp'd in this game, right were you?
Were you mostly PvP before getting into rating an mplus?

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Yeah? So okay, I technically I played for a year
in MOP and I only did rbg's as like a
little twelve thirteen year old kid, and I get I
hit a hero of the Alliance rink one, No big deal,
and then I quit because then I started playing Legal
Legends was the betters. I didn't do everyen at all.

(01:00:06):
I liked rbg's No. It was weird because I was
playing with like rank one pvpers and they would always
ask me to do three es later I'm like, I'd
rather do rbg's, you know. I think that actually contributed
to why I liked, like I transitioned rating because rbging
is like not it's like half PvP half rating kind of.

(01:00:27):
But yeah, I think I just go ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:00:33):
But you also, yeah, so in Legal Legends you also
hit challenger right mm? Yeah, I saw Tyler one talking
about like, wow, this guy's actually pretty good because I
did see you guys were playing League of Legends together
in that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Yeah, I think I kind of snuck it into that.
I didn't even play Only Things for like a month,
and then I got a ping of the discord. They're like, oh,
I need like two more for Only Things in house,
you guys want to play, and I was like, sure,
I'll play as a futile.

Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
The question is, is League of Legends PvP harder than
World the World Craft?

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
Oh way harder, Like it's it's way harder than rating
or like PvE especially, but I think it is still
harder than VP by a lot. Like I think there's
just so like even okay, let alone, like a lot
of people just compare the game alone, Like, sure you
can comp like what you think is harder in the game.

(01:01:33):
I think League is still harder game wise, but I
think sheer player based size is what makes League way
harder than whow. It's like, if your top one percent
of a game with I don't know, one hundred thousand players,
it's way different than top one percent of game with
like ten million players. You know, it's just this year
sample size just makes people better at that one percent level,
you know. I think that's like the biggest factor in

(01:01:56):
what I think League is harder than.

Speaker 4 (01:01:57):
While Okay, yeah, I was asking this question because there
was a pretty hot topic between uh peekaboos are you
and Tyler one where they're like talking about the difficulty
of World of the world Craft and somehow they managed
to guess like Tyler went in to thinking that World
the world Craft PvP is like the hardest shit ever

(01:02:18):
and he will never be able to get into it
and saying how like League of Legends is just like
way easier. I can't really you're the only one that
actually have like some like yeah, yeah, I can't really speakuse.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
RBG isn't really saying I did uh like in house
RBG like a B and balamo. So it's kind of
like the highest end of r we like PVPRG you can,
but it's still not the same as Arena. But like
I like to think I have like a good idea
of what arena is because I still did Arena sometimes
with them like some RG players just like for fun,
you know, but I never like did anything serious, So

(01:02:51):
I kind of understand what it takes to be like
good at PvP, But I think just the sheer amount
of sample size, is a league make it harder? But
I personally think like the game like one, like comparing
League to Wow League is harder, like no player base either.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Yeah, I mean I think if you took the if
you took you know, ten super sick gamers or I
guess twenty, you took super sick gamers from like another
game and you told them like, Okay, you guys have
got to get super good at Wow or super good
at League, like, which would take them longer. I think

(01:03:30):
that maybe Wow would take like longer just because it's
got more like Noll built up long term knowledge.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
I think it would still be League, though, think League.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Would be would take longer to like I think take
longer if the goala get either I guess going from
like zero to a cutting edge guild versus like zero
to what master in League or something or Grandmaster's.

Speaker 4 (01:03:53):
Okay, but so basically like if Hekaboo were to get
challenger versus Tyler, wouldn't getting ranked one in arenas.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
I think both of those more feasible, huh.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
I think comparing one player in each game is kind
of bad because like people have their own strengths and weakness.
It's more, if you put one hundred challengers in the WOW,
what percentage of them would you get ranked ONEVVP And
you put one hundred ranked one pvpers, what percentage then
we get a challenger.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Maybe a pretty high percent of both.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
I think it would be a high percent of both.
But I think League players would get a higher percentage
of rank win a PvP.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
I think that's fair. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Again with the caveat that, like maybe there's some long
term knowledge stuff. Wow is one of those games where
like there's not a lot of players that have started
more recently that have gotten into high end Wow. You
and like JPC are kind of the exceptions in my
mind of people.

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
There's a bunch right like Tobo right, make sure.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
But it's it's more where the exception, not like what
standard you know, like most.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Are WOW players, right like yeah, Whereas I guess League
that's kind of becoming too for as well. Not a lot,
not a lot of zoomers are dominant League.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
But there are there are a couple like new names
every now, I think way more than Wow. Wow. You
have a couple of people each season, but League there's
like every single team I think has so new.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
But maybe the success of you JPC and Tobo kind
of goes to show like, Okay, it wouldn't actually take
a committed person that long to master this game. There
just aren't a lot of them coming in. So maybe
if you take a hundred challengers and you you threw
them in and then you force them that they could
become super sick really fast.

Speaker 4 (01:05:41):
Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting because we do see actually
a lot of League Legal Legends players who are playing Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Now, but a lot of them are doing it more like.

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
Yeah, yeah, this is a very chill game.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
It's not right exactly sweat game. Huh.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
All right, On that interesting note, I think that's gonna
be it for this week's episode Hopeful Where where can
people find you any anything you want to promote.

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
Before we Uh yeah, I mean you just followed me
on Twitch at hopeful x. My twitter I think is
hopeful QT. That's about it.

Speaker 4 (01:06:20):
Yeah, I've heard you can also usually find Hopeful over
at Asian bunny X. He's a frequent of that stream.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
You're just playing old VODs now, it's not it's not
that exciting anymore. It's like a free cash egg. By
the way, if you guys want just play old Vaz
and just put live in the title. You'll get a
couple of hundred viewers and you can just farm out revenue.
It's crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:06:42):
You could only do it for so long.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
She guys been doing it for like a month, not
that I would know exactly how long, but.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
Yeah, anyways, things are no problem.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
You're having alrightbody, old

Speaker 4 (01:07:02):
Yount