Ep. 64 - Ranking Every Type of World of Warcraft Player - The PoddyC

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome to episode sixty four of The Potty.
See we've got a good one cheffed up today. This
has been I think a bit of a passion project
for you, Max, So it should be a pretty exciting episode,
I think one that I think we're all pretty excited
to do this one. So first though, any current events
anything you guys want to talk about before we start.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
The I have a current event? Okay, So I think
last week or after last episode, drat Noos and Dorky's
guilds were like competing, Like I think Dorky's guild killed
a boss first. Yeah, yeah, you guys killed one arm
bandit by one world rank early. So like if some
people might chat were like there's some poscy like raid

(00:41):
race going on. But then I think you guys just
smoked them, right, you guys you killed gallywacks last night.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, we cleverly decided that one of the best ways
is a five day guild. Uh, to kill a boss
early is to rate a sixth day.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
And overtime raider. We will be talking about those today maybe, Oh.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, that's not on our list that that definitely should
be overtiming.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh yeah, the officer that. Okay, Yeah, we'll get into that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
The only reason why you guys were pulled ahead is
because one, I'm not in on Mogsy, so you know,
it's obviously gonna be a lot harder without me, and
uh two is because you guys raided so much holy
y Yeah yeah yeah, pop Tart corn dogs known for overtiming.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
That's the that's us where you know Dan's and why
we're in the rage. Let's go, let's get it.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
It's okay, we went we won one boss for once.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
That's we We have the same thing where like we
lost to x D again this year on Galloway's by
like thirty minutes, but we beat them on Sprocket, so
that one is like we killed pre nerves Brocket and
they didn't, so we're going.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
To pretend that that was the win. That's exactly like,
that's the boss.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Right, although MaTx, you gotta be careful about indexing too
much into saying that because Echo beat you guys on
that one, so you gotta have to.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Take massively out playing us early. Yes, yeah, yeah, there
you saying.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Or you know XD does stand for extra days.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
So I've heard so I've heard repeatedly. Yeah, it's always
fun though whenever you have whatever, you have like two
guilds that are kind of like rivals or whatever, and
you just justify what you know. Like it's if you
guys seen that meme where it's like, you know, all
the good things about our country or whatever, and then
all the bad things about theirs, and it's like the

(02:26):
same thing, but like our glorious leader and their despicable
tyrants and our brave adventurers and they're pillaging marauders. That's
a that's guilds in the spot.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
All right. We hope to have a great treat for
you guys today. So the idea behind what we're doing
is we we saw there's another podcast called The Yard
maybe you heard of it, very popular gaming podcast, great podcast.
I had not listened to a lot of their stuff before,
and I was stuck in traffic and I needed something
interesting to listen to you and something popped up and
it was like tier list of like all the different

(02:59):
kinds of game you would run into. And it was
a fantastic episode and I thought it was really interesting
and it made me think, you know what, it would
be really nice to do that with like WOW specific
so you know the idea of like just being able
to talk about the different kinds of people you'd meet
in Wow. And I know a lot of you guys
will be able to relate to a lot of these.
We also made this yesterday. This is like the first
podcast or one of the only ones I think we

(03:21):
actually prepared for. And we actually just coming up with
the names for these and even trying to just just
index all of the different Wow personalities you can encounter
took like multiple hours yesterday. If you guys are patrons,
that will be released as a bonus episode for you
guys to listen to, like the inception of this list,
which I think would be an interesting listen because we
had a lot of fun doing it, And now we're

(03:42):
going to do this here. We're going to be trying
to rank these if you guys can see the teerless
thing now, top is goat that is you are you know,
you guys know being the goat is most of the
other things make sense. Eternal damnation at the bottom for
the absolute worst offenders, and this will be based on
what it's like. There's three of us, but Frank will
also have his input whenever he would like, and because

(04:05):
we have an odd number of people, like the majority
wins as far as like where they'll go on this
tier list, obviously we are us, so like you may
put these in your own and maybe we'll link this
if you guys want to make your own. And Frank
can also get involved as well with his one time.
I'm explain when a one time is just before we
get just everyone understand how this works is also stolen
from them, complete steal here they So the way the

(04:28):
one time works is at any point you can, if
you're like having trouble deciding, or if you just feel
so strongly about one of them, all of us one
time can just say it's going in this category and
they overrule everyone else. Frank has one of these as well.
So if Frank would ever like to come in and
just be like, you guys are all stupid. These people
are the worst or the best or whatever, he can
put them in those in that spot, all right, Any

(04:49):
questions from you guys before we go? What's a goat?
Is that like sheeps but different? Do you know? Wait?

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Are you not familiar with like the term he knows?

Speaker 2 (05:03):
He wait? Do you not wait?

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Do you actually not know, like what what goat means? Like,
not the animal, It's like that it's an.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Acron the animal yet like a beast.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
What does the stand for?

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Oh my god, he doesn't actually know?

Speaker 1 (05:22):
That's crazy?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Wow. I guess there probably is like a generation of
people that have just heard people say that, so they
repeated it but never knew why.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
I think he's try It's I mean, you guys are
kind of old.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
So you know, are you trolling?

Speaker 3 (05:35):
He's I do feel like there needs to be something
above harmless because it feels like, you know, we're jumping
from harmless straight to carries Wow. Or maybe it carries
Wow is too strong terminology because carries Wow and goats
seem kind of synonymous. So like I wonder if it's
just like, uh w instead of carries Wow. It's just like,
you know what, we like it. They're cool, but they're

(05:55):
not the goat, right, that's like a step below carries Wow.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Right, And and again goat stands for dorky?

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Was the g Do you actually not know? You? I
think he's trolling.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Okay, well, just in case.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Anyways, let's let's just go out with the teer. Listen,
it stands for greatest of all time. That's why people
call people to go because they're like the greatest of
all time? Did you know that? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Okay, yeah, right in the comments that you think dorky
did or didn't know that, there's.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
No I still don't know either way. All right, let's
see if we would like to begin, all right.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Our first category is a class discord demon.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Okay, would you like to explain to our fair listeners
and each other what that means? A classic?

Speaker 1 (06:47):
So there's a there's a lot of different sub types
of class discord demon, but there's a I think something
that we all have in mind, right is like, this
is a person who the sentence they've said most off
and in their life is check the pins, Like that
is the that is their top saying that at the
end of their life when the statistics show that it's

(07:08):
going to be right up there. They're like in private
channels in the class discord they flame the race to
world first players of the spec that they write, the
that they answer the class discord questions about despite you know,
having recommendations that you know, the need to get adapted
on fights and they but they don't they don't see

(07:28):
that there yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
If you're a if if you are in the class
discord and there's a prominent member of the community that
isn't in the discord, anytime a clip gets linked from
them or anything, they say it's always wrong because they're
just simply not part of the group. Uh. They claim inclusivity,
like everyone here, if you're you're a demon hunter, come
learn in the demon hunter thing. But it's also like

(07:50):
all the people at the top try to like segment
themselves off into private channels, which is like the opposite
of inclusivity. Uh yeah, check the pins. Guy, this isn't
the mod, right, this is the this is the person
I think the MOD might be separate and later on
the list, I think this is cronies. Yeah, these are
the cronies. Either the people were like their personality or

(08:10):
maybe not their personality, but they're their identity is is
like my community of people is the people that I
hang out with in a class discord, and that's just
like a certain type of person.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, they can't think for themselves. It's like a cult,
except they're one of the cultists. And if you're kind
of like a crony, you know, I've encountered these people
a lot, and they can be quite insufferable. So if
you ever find them really annoying, you know exactly what.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
It sounds like, you're you're you're putting them. I mean,
I would definitely put them near the bottom. The thing
is you also have to look at the average. And
so what we're saying here, and this is kind of
true for the whole list, We're not saying that like
where we put this is like if you're a class
discord person, your friends are in a class discord, you
kind of mind your own business. You're not really being
negative to anyone that might not be the you might
be not the average, right, but the we're talking like

(09:00):
whatever we think the average of this is going to.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Be yeah, or maybe even like the caricature right like this,
this is the taking it as far as people usually do,
rather than you know, the most people who are normal.
I think as well, this is this is a good
one to reiterate that this is from our perspectives, and
I think streamers in particular are always going to have
a pretty negative view of class discords because a lot
of our interactions with them is going to be you

(09:24):
go into a class discord and like people are flaming
you there randomly for you know, a decision that you
made that may or may not be good, and oftentimes
you think it's good because obviously you wouldn't have made
the decision otherwise. And then also like these are the
places that people go into them and they find some
some you know, tip or advice, and then they come
into your stream and ask you what you think about it,

(09:44):
over and over again if you're doing something different, So
like if you're playing a different build than the recommended
Class Discord build or whatever, you're gonna hear about it
a lot from the Class Discord people.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
So it's where practical meets theoretical, right, Like a lot
of the class discords are built on theory crafting and
the theoretical. And then a lot of times it comes
at the head of like you know, a race World
first player or a high level player applying practical experience
to trying these things and obviously trying different things. And
usually that's fine if you're a part of the group.

(10:14):
The smartest streamer is someone who if you're like known
for being any class like a mage or whatever, you're
a mage guy, people watch you because you are you
play this specific class respect. The smartest thing you can
do is just join the discord and just be friendly
with them, and you don't have to interact that much.
Just don't not be there because if you're just there,

(10:35):
then you're like part of the group, you're one of
the boys and they'll not criticize every word you say
and like be out to get you. But like, if
you don't join the discord, it's gonna be every everything
that someone posts in there, some random chatt will ask
you a question. It gets clip posting that discord, and
it's extremely it's instantly antagonistic because you are not part
of the team and that's that those are the people.

(10:56):
Those are interactions that we have. So Drata is definitely right,
like very very u this is going to be a
streamer take, but these guys have to go at the bottom. Also,
Like I also think a lot of people that aren't
streamers just they don't take the check the pins thing well,
like you can just say it, you.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Know, yeah, the check the pins thing is hilarious because
it's like it's one of those spots where it's the
same reason that people come in and keep asking streamers
the same question over and over again. Right, But like
people are just not good at dealing with being asked
the same question over and over again because that sucks.
But there's no social to it. Pins don't solve it.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Maybe maybe this is not the average, so it's not fair,
but you know, this can weigh down the average. So
this is might not be because they are in a
class discord. But of the most nefarious individuals I am
aware of in World of Warcraft, they are one common
thread with all of them is that they are a
class discord demon. They are someone whose community is a

(11:52):
class discord thing. There's like a little pack of healers
that kind of you know, I would say resembles this
that like you know who I'm talking about it, that's like.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Healer discord, right, not even like a class discord is
the yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, And just in general like that that one Healer
Discord and what used to be the Tank Discord were
two of the most like toxic places on planet Earth.
And that you know, I don't know if that is
the average class discord user, but that happens. You know,
uh dor key, do.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
You remember us h M plus discord? Were you active fact?
But that was that was like a legion m plus Discord,
which it was like a hive of scum.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
And villainy that.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, I only like joined it right at the end
of Legion and I scrolled through a little bit. I
was like, Okay, that's servers going on. Mute.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
I think this is like the this I'm I'm in,
I'm in blow up. I don't think it's eternal damnation.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, I'm happy to put this and blow up. I
think there's I don't there are worse crimes than being
a classicord demon.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Absolutely, there's some on the top of my head just
looking down here, like I know goes an internal damnation.
But uh, and it's not I don't like you, like,
you know, I don't like you would be like, you know,
like like they're fine that they exist, but like just
not a huge fan. Actually I don't know. Maybe are
we but like like if we weren't streamers, would they
be one tier up? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Oh almost certainly or maybe even.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, I could see that. I mean it kind of varies, right, Like,
I feel like they vary anywhere from eternal damnation to
I don't like you, because you know.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
They can be.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
Helpful at times, but at the same time, sometimes they're
just like the most obnoxious, like, well, yeah, you don't
have you don't serve a purpose here.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
There's probably a lot man, maybe you were I think
the vast majority of these people might be harmless. Well,
and isn't that the you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (13:44):
But we're rating the demons here, not the not just
the class discord Yeah yeah, right people.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, but class discore demon. Yeah, I guess maybe you're right.
It has the demon nomenclature in it. Okay, yeah, that's fine. Yeah,
blow up is fine. W all right.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Up Next is the civilian, which is a term that uh,
this is probably it's this and mole person are tied
for terms that have been used by us or some
subset of us and have gotten the most like ire
from uh from the commenters.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
But I mean, what even is the civilian? The civilian
is someone who I guess plays Wow casually, plays Wow
for fun. They don't play the game with the intention
of being really good at it, you know what I mean,
But they play it a lot. They're not necessarily we
have some we we break down the like casual Wow
player in a few different categories later. But I think

(14:39):
these people are great. These people keep the game alive, right,
they're they're or do you guys have a more uh
more like app description of the civilian specifically.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Okay, so this started from un TV aka growl akapte.
He uh so he used to use this term back
when he played poker. Like from what I understand, they
used to call people who were not a student of
the game fishes. I don't remember the exact reason for it,
but like it was like it sound the kind of derogatory, right,

(15:10):
so he switched to using the term civilian instead. Sooya,
I kind of see it as like you're not necessarily
a student of the game, but you do care about
playing the game, so you know, like you're probably someone
who's still like those mplaws and rating and all that stuff.
You just like don't really look into it. You know,
like you're not out there looking up guides, You're not
out there like studying streamers and all.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
You might play Wow a lot. It might be the
game you play the most. You might have like a
decently high level of hours in the game, but the
odds that you're going to know or like care about
some obscure tech and some dungeon for instance, right, like
a civilian is never gonna gonna know or like look
up that kind of stuff, right.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
I think I ran into this person today.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah, but I had.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
It won't be super long story, but I had I'm
getting my backyard remodels. So I had the guy come
out and like kind of look at my yard and
like talk about some options. And then he asked me
what I did, and I said, I play Wow for
a living, and his eyes lit up and he's like, oh,
that's crazy, and he's like, I do Mythic Plus. He's
like three kio. So instantly I'm like, okay, probably knows
some like PDD people. And I mean he had no
idea who I was. He was like kind of familiar

(16:16):
with the race, but like, you know, just not super
in tune with like creators. I asked if he knew
any Mythic Plus creators and he's like, I'm I know
Quasi or Quasi And I was like, oh, sick, yeah,
like I know Quasi uh, and like he didn't. He's just,
like you said, not super tapped in with that, but
did like decently high enough. Keys isn't trying to do
like eighteens and seventeens and stuff, but would do like
he was telling me about, like how like yeah he

(16:38):
played when he can play with his friends, Like it's
fine when they do thirteen's, but like man if they
can get like if it's like two pugs, like you
have people with the same score, and sometimes they do
one point four million deps with lust and all CDs
and sometimes they do insane damage. And it's like he
was just going through all his his turn and I
learned so much from it. But like I think I
actually met which isn't a derogatory term either civilian but

(16:59):
like as a civilian for sure, Yeah, I think I
met it. I think I literally had an iral interaction
with a civilian today.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Dude, that guy owns, by the way, that's a base
gigachat M plus ray bear.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
See.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
I bet he doesn't even rate anymore. That guy is
just straight up base yep. Yeah, you're just trying to
do as high keys as possible.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
I think this is a set of people that is
way larger than the average, like Sweaty Streamer would kind
of instinctively assume. And I think that the the like
which creators they know about is actually a good sort
of metric for this, right, It's like it's somebody who's
likely to know about some of the kind of general
WOW creators, right, but not like the Sweaty Race World

(17:37):
First or MDI or TVP players.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Right. And then like like Quasi's content is very informative
with a lot of like UI stuff for most people,
and that like totally makes sense.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
And then like maybe they know like if you're a civilian,
you know missweevery maybe you know Mega set, right, Like
that's you know, like the person who makes the great
guide content for your class respect right, but you don't
like you're not following you know, M plus to some
tricks videos or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, not total videos. Yeah, well, well.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
There's a lot of people that aren't following titles videos,
so we'll have be more specifically.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
That's true. Yeah, this is bare minimum w for me.
By the way, I think it's possible because they like
they like they might be goats, dude, they might keep
the game out. What do you think?

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, I think I think objectively go like without this person,
the game would not exist for even if you even
if you don't you know, relate much to the civilian.
It's a this is like the lifeblood of World of Warcraft.
So yeah, go for me, okay, right, next one is

(18:39):
no IO gotta go dorky. This is what means.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, this one I coined as the player that just goes, oh,
there's no IOW and this key, I gotta go.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
And that's that's why we call it that way. It's
also catchy term.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
But uh, this is extremely common in M plus. You
will often see players if they don't need that key
for score, they will instantly leave, or if there's like
no other keys that are around, they're just off, like
they're not trying to network, they're not trying to play
for fun. They're just chasing. But dopamine hit you know now,
Like I respect it, right, Like I get it. We're

(19:14):
just chasing for a score. It's the same as how
like maybe people are like chasing parses or chasing guild ranks,
Like I totally get it. But at the same time, man,
these people are so unfun to play with because you know,
sometimes you're just trying to play the game and these guys.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Are of a pod party poopers.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
So I don't think too fondly of these players. But
at the same same time, they're not exactly the worst.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
So the solution is like just play the game, man,
you know, like like doing one, doing one fifteen of
this key, to do a homework key to get the
one you want to do is gonna be. That's how
you like network with people and get a get a team.
You know, I'm assuming most of these people don't have
a team they play with, because like that like kind
of comes to the territory.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Oh yeah, very pugs usually yeah, but sometimes they're still friends.
Like like there are definitely friends where like you know,
you'll hit them up for a key and they'll like
like you'll hit them up. You'll be like, oh, I
want to come do a fifteen dark flame cleft and
be like oh yeah, sure, you know, because you know,
if that's big iyo for them. But the moment the
key goes south and you're like thinking about doing the
fourteen or like re leveling the key very instantly out

(20:16):
of there. So if they don't want any of that,
and that's kind of lame behavior.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
It's short sighted as well, right, because like your io
is going to go up more if you are willing
to actually do the homework keys and you know, build
friendships and relationships with people and help them get their stuff,
and then they'll help you get your stuff. Right, But
if you only ever go into a key when it's
a short term IO upgrade for you or anything like that,
then yeah, you're gonna be worse off.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
You're also going to lower your success chance. Like let's
say you've timed a fourteen of a certain key and
then now you won't ever pull that dungeon again unless
it's a fifteen. You're gonna be way better the first
time you do that fifteen if you've done it on fourteen,
like more than once, right, So I think it's also
like you're kind of making it harder for yourself to
climb unless you unless you're very limited time, Like I

(21:00):
don't know. The reason why I feel like they might
not be lower is maybe they don't have a lot
of time to play wow, and if they really like
pushing mythic plus score, it kind of makes sense that
the time they are going to be spending a WOW
is based on if they're like actually getting something out
of it in a way. So I don't I don't
know if that's like super low, But you interact with
these people a lot more.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yeah, it's more so that sucks for other players.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
You know.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
It's one of those like you're playing for a very
selfish reason, but you know, like we get it right,
Like you're just chasing for a IO score and if
that's your goal, that that's completely fine. So I don't
I don't exactly have anything against them, But at the
same time, I don't like you.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
That's one it is, Oh, I don't like you. I
would go like kind of cringe. But also I just
like barely interact with these people, So I would defer
to dorky probably.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
I'm happy to go with I don't like you. Yeah,
I think that. I think it's definitely between those two categories.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Okay, complains doesn't play? Is that the I think this
is the person that like complains about the game all
the time, but they quit a really long time ago
and they just think about but they still actively think
about Wow. I guess is that is that this?

Speaker 4 (22:05):
Yeah, it's like if they're talking about like, oh, we'll
leave comments on your YouTube video being like I can't
believe you still play Wow. He probably quit around twenty one.
You know that type of guy.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
They're the worst.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
They'll talk about like how like Wow just has like
infinite av grind and all that stuff. But like that's yeah,
use that doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, like that's just not
how the game.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean, these people suck. Like why do you even care? Bro?
If you if you quit a game and like you,
I guess, enjoyed your time when you played that game,
why would you in the future just like ever think
about the game again. If you quit, you would just
move on to something else. Why would you still be
thinking about and having to complain about the game that
you don't play anymore. It's just crazy. I don't even
know how people turn out like this. Yeah, it's a

(22:51):
it's like an X.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
It's like an ex relationship, you know, like a toxic
relationship with Wow. Yeah exactly, you know, because they've used
to love Wow and that was their baby and now
it's like, all right, this this is not a Wow
I know anymore. So that's probably why they feel that way.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
You're the music come with a cure for these people,
And what it is is it's just them realizing that
nothing is going to be as cool and as wondrous
as when you were a kid. And as soon as
they figured that out, all it'll just make so many
things make sense. This has to go down there. Oh,
that's a that's that's that's the That's the harshest criticism

(23:30):
we can give someone. They are insanely annoying. But it's
also low key sad because I feel like if they
were Maybe I'm looking too deep into it, but I
feel like if they were like a little happier in
their life, there's just absolutely no way they would be
spending their time complaining about a game they haven't played
in a long time.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
You know.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
That makes me feel sympathy for them.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
I think most, yeah, most people that are going to
go in eternal damnation, if they were happy in their life,
would be better off.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
Okay, I mean yeah, I'm okay with leaving it down
there for now, but I'm not too sold on it
yet too, Like, we'll have to see what else comes up.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, the list, the list is keep making it as well,
will inform the the categories will start forming an identity,
and it will be maybe obvious that something is in
the wrong spot afterwards. All Right, we'll put a purgatory
for now and purgatory for now, but I already know
there's a few people here that are just significantly worse,
so we'll see or just as bad.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Well, yeah, I guess. So the rule for this is
it's best two out of three vote, right if there's
ever in disgyments, So if you guys both wanted to
go higher than than then.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, I'm okay with this one now, okay, okay, then
that doesn't matter, right I think? Then okay, the worst
case in near by the way I would go, like
one up right right, the bench beast Grant knows who
is this the bench beast?

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Uh, so we're not referring to the podcast. There are
no beasts on that podcast. Uh. This is like somebody
who what's the what's the category here?

Speaker 4 (24:54):
From?

Speaker 1 (24:54):
I forget what this is exact.

Speaker 4 (24:56):
This is a guy who is frequently bench never complained, Okay,
so this will frequently be the fifth healer in a guild.
Always kind of just great vibes. Always there sees one
boss every other tier maybe like.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
The Red Paladin Maine or the dk DPS Maine.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Or the yeah, and like when they're meta, they're happy
to be in, but like totally chill sitting. This person's
a fucking goat, right, Like this person like dude, guilds
need these people. If guilds did not have these people,
they could not exist straight up, or they'd be way
worse and you'd have to re recruit people every tier.
The bench beast is top of goat bro. Yeah, I

(25:35):
think like bench bench beast is is. If you are
this person in a guild and you don't get the
like recognition you deserve, you absolutely just know you are,
you are loved, you you you make the guilds go.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
There's another guild longing for you on their bench right now, bro.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yep yep, yeah not in I.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
Love the opinion that bench players should get more loot
after at least at least after progression.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
They need to get like.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
All of the loot and crew to make them feel yeah,
like like they need a reason to be staying around.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah, it depends on what their motivation is for being in,
right for still for like, because everybody's motivations for staying
in a guild where you don't get played much is different, right,
But uh, if it's like for M plus or something
like that, then hell, yeah, you know, gear gear, give
them all the gear they want.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Okay, okay, human dBm.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
We all know this. Uh, this type of raid leader.
This is so this is a.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Subset of archetype.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, and this is somebody who they their style of
raid leading consists of reading out the dBm or big
wigs timer and how long until it's up. So they'll
just you know, they'll just be like, okay, scatter blast
canisters in five, you know, frontal and ten or whatever,
and they'll just say those things and then they'll read
out ability names, often kind of inconsistently. Often as they

(26:55):
start getting overloaded in a fight, they'll stop actually calling
certain mechanics. And also they're often just calling you know,
half of the mechanics, not the most important half of
the mechanics, just a random half of the mechanics that
they have dBm timers for might fluctuate from pultiple, it
might just be the same ones every pole. But yeah,
this is a very common you know, raid leaders.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Is most I actually know, I don't think this is
most read leaders, because I think most raid leaders are
just non raid leaders, which is another category leader. They
like have raid lead by title, but just like play
the game and say things sometimes Yeah, this is like
is this person also like floor PUV? Is what it
seems like the way you describe this kind of already
gave it like a negative connotation.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
I did, yeah, which spoiler alert. I don't think it's
very useful way to raid lead. But they're not necessarily
bad players or anything.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
I mean, it's definitely better. It's definitely not near the bottom,
because there's raid leaders that are significantly worse than this,
like basically ones that don't try or they just highly
value their personal play over calling things, so that guild
just effectively doesn't have a raid leader, which is going
to make them perform worse. They're performing better, their gill
performs worse. So uh M.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
I see this more as bad explainers. So literally, last
night I was doing a friend raid, right like, we're
just doing like two or three mythic bosses, and Drogo
was leading that raid. He leaves for his grade. He's
his lad to his raid too, and he usually does
like a pretty decent job and just like calling stuff out.
But at the same time, he does such a bad
job explaining because like a lot of people who show

(28:29):
up for that friend raid, they're just there for fun, right,
Like we're kind of just fair to hit their buttons
and collect to loude kill bosses. But he's just like,
you know, like calling the mechanics like all right, like
zap coming in three seconds, and and I'm just like
thinking my head, like what the fuck is he telling?
Like what the hell's the zapp? Like I've done rick
reverb like fifty times and I don't know what the
hell zapp is? And he and it turns out he

(28:50):
was talking about the mechanic where you have to lose.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Yeah, so he was kind of doing that, but he
wasn't necessarily Like is that not necessarily?

Speaker 2 (29:01):
But is this the person that also reads out like
before you pull a boss the first time they they
describe the entire encounter, which no one will no one remember,
no one's gonna remember any like any but the first
like five things you said, Uh, is it that person?
Is there something else closer to that person on here?

Speaker 4 (29:22):
I would say that this is that guy. This is
the guy that does the twenty five minutes pre pull
no nothing on the screen, no screen sharing, no nothing journal,
that kind of.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Journal. You know, that's that's brutal man, That that's I
don't like you for me at the highest. I don't
know if they really bro that's so. I mean, I
guess Okay. One thing. One positive thing is like not
for as many guilds as there are in the world,
there aren't that many like natural leaders, so like some

(29:55):
people are doing it out of force. A lot of
human dbms, you guys know, are probably doing this because
someone has to, and in a way I feel like
they shouldn't be slandered for that. But also the the
the call, like the calling everything out of the dungeon
journal thing just blows my mind. It's like, just no
one unless you like have you not been in that
position before? Are you have the human dbms that have
had dungeon journals, like entire dungeon journals read out to

(30:18):
them over voice comms? Have you been like, ah, yes,
I'm getting this. So when I become a raid leader,
I'm gonna do this too, Like there's no way, Like
you also didn't intake that information? Why are you doing
it again?

Speaker 3 (30:29):
Well, I will say they can be useful, so that's
why I'm not going to say like they're completely useless,
and I'll like I do find it helpful if sometimes
they're just calling on like the dBm stuff, like just
like letting people know ahead of time, like all this
mechanic is happening in five seconds.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, it can be.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Like the best versions of this are people that you
know their rave leading consists of basically like a well
configured dBm that is emphasizing the right timers and calling
them out. But often I think you get the default DVM,
where it's just every time and not particularly useful.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
The important ones. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
I think if we average it all out, I could
I could go up to kind of cringe, but I
don't think I want to go higher than that.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Really. I feel like the reason why I would want
to put them in harmless is because they just feel
like they're there. They are. Most of them are doing
it because they're trying to help their friends. And I
don't think a lot of people aspire to be the
human dBm guy. It's like you're doing it out of like,
if you're really passionate about raid leading, you probably go
higher than that. You probably become a non human dBm. Right.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah, yeah, So I was gonna say, like, you guys
are comparing a human dBm to an actual rad leader, right,
but like, what about a human dBm versus no RAY
leader at all?

Speaker 5 (31:44):
Right?

Speaker 2 (31:44):
I think it's.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah, it's got to be better. Than like nobody doing
at all.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Right, I think it depends on the person.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
I think a lot of people will get will basically
ignore them. But yeah, I probably in most raid groups,
there are some people that will be better off with
the human dBm and some people that are going to
be like new troll or slightly negative at worse from it.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
So yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
I'm just like if you join like a heroic pug raide,
right and then like just like really very lead or
or just like whoever is just kind of announcing the
stuff that that's happening. Yeah, I feel like they aren't
exactly bad. I feel like most is just harmless.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Okay, I'm convinced for sure.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, Next we have pvper.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Eternal Damnation immediately.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Just put it in the bottom. Yeah, like imagine being
a PvP in World world Crafts.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
All right.

Speaker 6 (32:33):
The next one is we had wea before we move on,
and just just to give some we were we we
thought about when we know there's a bunch of different
PvP archetypes of people we don't PvP though, and we
don't know them.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
We thought about bringing on a guest, but like it
wouldn't be interesting for us to talk about it because
we don't know these people, so so we just were like,
we're just gonna put it in the bottom. We're gonna
really gonna post this tearless on Twitter. People will just
become mad instantly, but yeah, just just throw it down
there at w Look.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
I will say I was a PV beer before becoming
an mpluser because you know, like I didn't care about
PvE back then until mplus came out, and some of
the worst people I've encountered were from PvP. So I'm
just gonna I'm just gonna say it all like eternal damnation.
That's a perfect spot for PV beers.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Beautiful love it. Oh man, I think we got it.
We might have another one coming up here.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
All right, the wowhead commenter is up that next. God this,
I would say. The only thing that would possibly go
below wowhead commenter is the people who posted and the
replies on Twitter under wowhead posts. But Wowha doesn't even
post on Twitter anymore, so that no longer exists though.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
They're just so unhappy, Like there's it. I bet if
you were to have an alternate reality of like they
make any post now, imagine in the alternate reality they
made the inverse of that post. So let's say the
post is Blister just announced these new things, and then
they're the alternate reality version is Blizzard announced these new
things and it's the total opposite, or it's a nerve

(34:05):
instead of a buff, or abuff instead of a nerve.
Those same people are in the comments mad no matter what,
it doesn't matter if it's what they wanted or what
they didn't want. They just hate Wow and they're like,
I guess they hate right, Like, but like if you
hate Wow and you're on Wowhead every day, what is
going on? You know, like something something's missing there? And
those they just seem like some of the deep, those

(34:26):
deeply unhappy people and completely insane.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
It's also Wowhead to blame because you know, Wildhead does
do extremely click baby titles.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah they'll put stuff like they know their audience. Yeah yeah,
they'll put stuff like oh uh huge massive nerves to
something and then then it just turns out it's like
some like bug fakes or whatever. But I will say, like, oh, Wow,
Wowhead post, you can put them above eternal damnation, dorky, No,

(34:55):
I'm okay with putting them down there. But I'm just saying, like,
you know, like if they'll just put like some like
random trans mod on wildhead, Yeah, there's usually some pretty
positive comments like oh wow, I love this new transmog,
but like if it's like oh uh, like something about
nerves or buffs or like something about bugs or whatever,
you'll see in the comments like where's my fucking hunter buff,

(35:15):
Like what is this? This is so bad, they'll just
like say all the craziest shit. Yeah it's uh.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
The Blizzard could make class tuning that touched like thirty
six specs and these people would be commenting about the
like three that they missed or whatever and like didn't
change and like Bluzzer's asleep at the wheel. I can't
believe this.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, Okay, so it's definitely an eternal damnation. I want
to point out how the uh ordering will go, so
like goat, like the number one goat would be the
one on the left of the goat list, if that
makes sense, Like currently it would be bench beast and
the worst an eternal damnation would be to the right. Correct.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Okay, yeah, so it's it's always better to be to
the left in your.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Tier, correct yeaheah, that makes sense, just just for reference. Yeah,
so through the wildhead commenter on there, I think.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
They don't know they can't be a PvP should be
our anchor. I think that's like that can always stay
at the right of the total damnation deer.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Okay, uh, we have a nostalgia chaser, Frank, which one
who is a nostalgia chaser is? I think I have
an idea. Is it just the people who want the
game to be the way it used to? But it's
not this to me.

Speaker 4 (36:22):
The guy who hates anything that isn't classic. They just
want the game to be old, and like they can't
believe that there's quest markers on the world now and
they can't believe all these you know, mocked and no
changes in the game. I would say it's the no
changes guy. I would say it's the guy who strongly
thinks that tokens ruined the game completely. And yeah, I

(36:44):
don't know. That's what this guy is to me, the
guy who just really wants to go back to like
midnight releases of World of Warcraft.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
So someone who just misses the old days is by
default harmless because they're just kind of doing their same thing.
But it does bring harm when they like, is this
the person that also shows up in your Twitch chat
and is like like first time chatter, Oh ha, you're
playing this dead game. Couldn't be me? And then they
leave because that's like that's not harmless. That overlaps annoying.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
With complaints doesn't play right, Like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
I think that's more of a complaints quite the same.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
I think this guy just really wants like old Wow back,
like he would play a private server once in a
while just to feel something.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Okay, I mean it doesn't even have to be like
old old Wow.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
It could be like someone who misses MOP too, like,
oh I missed the old days of MOP to you,
I feel like that's.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
That is kind of the day I was like twenty twelve.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah, so they're like pretty close to harmless then, right,
They're just they just they just missed the old days. Man,
unless they're like actively like resenting everyone and becoming insufferable
because of that. But I think that might be a
different category.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
Yeah, I'd say the alien kind of cringe. It can
be kind of cringe at times.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
But yeah, because harmless is like they have no harm,
but they definitely some of them are like those other people,
which would move them down maybe, like like, aren't nostalgia
chasers goaded for example, to like wait it up?

Speaker 3 (37:59):
I like, I think so, yeah, I think that's for sure,
right because like you know, some people just like love
World warld crafts so much. They're like, oh, man, ward
Craft was a gold but like, I don't really have
time to play.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
That shit anymore. Yeah, true? Or so Also they currently
play Classic and they buy subs and keeps the game alive.
That's good.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
We have classic players. We have like other classic players
in the in the list, I.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Think, okay, all right, so harmless. They're just they just
missed the old days. Man. Yeah, it happens all right.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Up next is good but annoying, which this is actually
kind of hard to do, I've noticed, because the more
good you are at the game, the more people won't
find you annoying, even if you're being in like the
same person can say the exact same joke, and if
one of them like never dies and parses ninety eight
and the other one dies, you know, the most often

(38:48):
in the guild people will laugh at the first persons
and they'll like resent the second person. So it's actually
quite hard. The more good. You are the harder it
is to successfully be annoying. But there are some people that.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Have maxed outstand the boss. Yeah, yeah, and that's who
we're talking about. Yeah, you're you're exactly right. This is
the person in your guild that's great, but people just
don't like them. They max out both traits. You know,
they're a great player. You maybe haven't kicked them because
of this, but like they're just they're they're either not friendly.
They're probably really arrogant. That's like really common. They're like

(39:21):
they just think they're the ship or know they're the ship, right, Yeah,
And in.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Some cases it's hard because like in some cases they're.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Right, yeah exactly, they are right, Yeah, and they they
carry your guild. Maybe maybe you kill bosses faster because
you have a banger player in there, like a really
good healer or something, and like they're the worst, but
like they're great, so they you end up just not
dying to healing and stuff and.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yeah, and then you have this tough spot where it's like, man,
these two pretty good players won't join our guild because
they don't like this person. But you know this person's
really good, and then you yeah, there's there's get some
tough spots sometimes with the with the arch type.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
This is also the kind of person I think that
if you're ever worried as like guild leadership, that you're
gonna have like this really like charismatic and like some
people follow them, but other people don't. It's and then
they end up like leaving the guild in a coup
or like basically like four or five people leave because
like this one person was wrong and he has such
a huge ego that they can't deal with it, and

(40:17):
then like all their friends leave. That is this person.
This person can become a cancer in your guild. Basically, yeah,
very easy. This is yeah, very easily. So so like
that that is part of this.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
I know both like both you and I have have
not recruited people because they fit this archetype. It's like
a very sad thing to see, but yeah it's important, yep.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Man, I don't know. I just feel like this is
where we're rating people, and like it doesn't really benefit
me if they're good, like like for us, for example,
like if anyone in our guild was like good but
like like annoying like this, like they would just be
so gone, like they would like it's just not worth
ever having someone like that. So I I mean it's
certainly kind of cringe, right, like bare minimum kind of cringe.

(41:06):
I'm wondering I want to go lower than that.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to go against the grain and
go with.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
W okay okay.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
You know, like there's got to be some players out there,
and wow, that's just got to like flunt fair ship,
right like, you know, if they're good players, they deserve
their status.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Thinking of he can he can bleep it out. Ah,
that's a tough one, like like like basically then, but
but for them.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
To want to I want to say, I want to
say JPC, I want to say, especially on his rid way, Oh,
he was absolutely annoying as hell, especially when he was
like on the come up, because you know, he would
be like he would be posting his YouTube channel in
shadow Lands beta trade chat channel so that he can

(41:59):
like that's annoying, that annoying, and he literally like posted
a vod of JB's POV of like some world first
beta key and he was like saying and he like
made a bunch of crazy statements right like he would
say Ship, like, oh, none of the rogues in the
racist war first can hold a candle to me in
TGP or like he'll say stuff like candle holders.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
He said a lot of really.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Cringe things that got on the bad side, but he
really likable.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
Though.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
There's an important difference here where it's like, is this
person annoying two people they don't play with, or to
people they do play with, right, because like I think
that the kind of the archetype I'm archetype I'm thinking
of is and Frog's going to sleep these names out.
But people like where it's like this is somebody where

(42:49):
you know you're they might be pretty good person.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
He's like literally the work first a difference, but like, yeah,
you know the I do get what you mean.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Yeah he has like good but he's kind of a
right not a good person or something.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
But I don't actually know people who have played with him, Yeah,
because you have to talk about maxing out both traits.
Like I don't think JPC was max level annoying. I
think he was like like like max level good and
kind of annoying. Like I think that person is worth
Like every interaction I've had with someone like this in
a guild has been extremely negative, like like like he

(43:28):
mentioned literally everyone that's ever played with that guy hates
him and he was great. You know, like that's kind
of the archetype. Maybe I don't he was that, But
did James grow out of it?

Speaker 1 (43:37):
I think that's probably what happened here, I think. But
I'm not surprised you're kind of tolerant of this because
given given the people I see you q it up
with all the time, I figured you'd be pretty.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
Tolerant, the red names and Dorkey's discord Bro. Have you
ever in his discord? Yeah? Okay, but a lot of
those players are not on the good part of it. Yeah,
they're just they're just funny. Yeah, okay, shit, where are
we where me and I said, kind of cringe? Dorky said,

(44:10):
w that's what's a hard one. What do you think
that kind depends the person?

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, it does depend on the person. I I guess
if we average it all out, maybe kind of cringe.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
But it's weird because like, what do you what do
you think there's like.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Some where it's it's a little higher, and then there
are some that's like eternal menoration destroys your guild?

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Right? Yet average that? Right?

Speaker 4 (44:30):
I think this guy is more important at the world
rank I've been at than where you guys are at,
because this guy does kind of carry guilds in like
twenty three hundred, because this could be like your best
heelers and like if he's your best healer, you lose him.
That could be like fifty world ranks man like that.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
That could be especially true for healers, like now that
you brought up healers, like they are especially good but annoying, Yeah,
all of them.

Speaker 4 (44:53):
And also there's there's an insane counterplay to a lot
of these guys, which is just the discord mute function.
Wonder Yeah, wonderful.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Is so tough, Like any guild where people have each
other on ignore or muted, It's like that is a
ticking time bomb that is ready to go.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Yeah, but yeah, I mean, I like if you're playing
for the vibe, It's like.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
If you need to get a car and your budget
isn't enough to get a good car, and then someone
offers you, like a really good car, but it like
stinks really bad, but you still just need to get
from point A to point B, right, like you might.

Speaker 4 (45:27):
Bad car is better than no car, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
I feel like I feel like I would almost want to,
like follow francs take here pretty strongly, because we are
at a world rank where these people aren't worth it
in your guild because everyone else is so good and
not annoying. But there's most guild ranks where these people
are necessary.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah, Like, and a lot of guilds you would take.
You basically are getting them at a discount, right, because
like they're playing well enough to be in a World
fifty guild, and they're going to join your World three
hundred guild because they're not the annoyingness makes them not
acceptable in a World fifty guild, right, And then like
that depending on how good and annoying they are. That's
true at different level.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
This is the controversial superstar in sports. Like he might
end up on a bad team, but he could win
you at all if his ego is in check, you know.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Yeah, alright, W all right, all.

Speaker 4 (46:10):
Right is it W?

Speaker 2 (46:12):
I mean it sounds like it's W.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
I kind of want to put him in W. But
at the same time, I hate him. You know.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
It's a tough one, fucking awful.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
It's like I'm putting him at W, but I really
don't like putting him there. I would never tell him
his face.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
I'm deferring to Frank's opinion, so that puts the majority
in W all right, wow w w for good but
annoy all right.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Next one is the never off rolls person. So this
is a bit of a niche archetype, but this is
somebody who plays a like a paladin, a druid, a monk,
and they play exclusively their one role of it. Even
though your guild needs tanks so bad to do M
plus during the first few weeks, or needs healers so

(46:56):
bad to do M plus during the first few weeks,
this person only plays paladin and they are never gonna
activate that Holy spec. They're never gonna activate that prospect,
and you are gonna you're gonna resent them for it.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
I would say this is most friend groups because you know,
I've played this game on and off many times with
a bunch of friends coming back to the game. I
to have like a group of like five to ten friends,
and nobody wants to be like the tank. So that's
like most players I feel.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
I mean there's a reason though, because you don't have
enough tanks, right, just because people don't want to do it.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's gotta be uh, like you see the
world first rank sometimes because like you have to do
a lot of mythic Plus if you if you had
someone that just wouldn't tank, I mean, it just wouldn't
even be possible to do what you need to do.
But like this is just the person that's like, dude,
we could run this thing if you just tank. You
know how to tank. I've seen you tank and they're like,
don't want to do it.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yeah, you're literally an LFG for like thirty minutes trying
to find a tank and you have a DPS in
your guilt that's ready to join, but like you're this
person's not gonna activate tanks back, so they can't.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
You're just uh imprisoned.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
So I don't know, it's weird because like obviously nobody
should be forced to play a role that they don't
want to, right, So it kind of depends on the context,
right because like, but if you're in the you know,
a rating guild for instance, I would say, try really
hard to not be this person at least for you know,
the first few weeks of the tier when everybody really
wants to do him.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Plus yeah, I don't know, I.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Mean it can't be that bad, right, because like it's
it's literally just it's.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Definitely kind of cringe. Yeah, kind of cringe. It sounds like,
do you it sounds might.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Be the exact kind of cringe.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yeah, yep, Oh god, the Edator? Okay? Is this the
mythic plus Edator? Is this? Like? Is that typically where
this goes down? I know there's been like a lot
of like a like boyfriend girlfriend, tankiller combos. Is that
like is that who we're talking about here?

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Yep?

Speaker 4 (48:50):
Yeah, this is the exact person.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
So I feel like if they just kept to themselves,
it wouldn't Why would you care? I guess like maybe
it's a little it's not harmless because like you have
to deal with like the like if you're in that group,
you can't criticize the Tank or the heal O Royals.
You got some people coming after you, you know, or
something like that. But it seems like it also bleeds
over to them being insufferable on Twitter. But we have

(49:14):
like a wow Twitter person later. But maybe that's separate.
I mean that's separate from this. Is this the same
as ego Hunter? No? No, no, this is like no, the
egle Hunter is a is definitely different. Yeah, okay, so
yeah it's a different one. This is this is the
serial mythic plusy dator, right.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah, this is a person who will only ever be
seen inside a keystone with you know, somebody that they're
they're data at the time, right, or like that they're trying.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Is this not more of like just a boyfriend, girlfriend couple. Uh.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
The general idea behind this one to me was primarily
short term relationships, like you will frequently see them in
keys with the same significant other for about a month
or so, okay, and i' for a bit, and then
they'll be back for a month or so with another
person who happens to have a very interesting name and

(50:07):
or role.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Oh interesting, Okay, Well I haven't interact with this person
a lot. It sounds like it's not the thing I'm
thinking of.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Yeah, I mean there's definitely a lot of different This
is the thing is there's a lot of different things
people being when they say e dators, right, and then
like there's a lot of different levels of levels of
either cringiness or totally totally normal in fact, even great
you know people that are that would fall in this category, right.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Yeah, I say more often than not they're on the
negative side. Yeah, people often perceive close to harmless though, Yeah,
doing their own thing.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
A lot of times it is completely harmless, right, Like,
people get annoyed at it because they don't like feeling
like they're maybe you know, second classicizens in the group.
Right if your tank is only ever going to play
in the context of like playing with this one person
for instance, or your healer, and you're just always kind
of like, you know nobody. A lot of people don't
ever don't like feeling like the third right, And if

(51:00):
you're in an M plus group with the daters, sometimes
that's how it feels, right, But I think a lot
of times that perception is is self inflicted, right, Like
it doesn't just people are just kind of in their
own heads and do that to absolves and could just
enjoy enjoy doing the key with cool people that happen
to be dating.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
So I would say more often than not, vera is
conflict with other players involved, because you know, like when
you're playing Wow, you're always playing with more than just
two players, right, So when you just have like a
couple plus three other players, or like a couple in
a raid of twenty players and you know, something can

(51:37):
go wrong, like maybe all like maybe you didn't give
lou to one of the couples and now they're both mad,
or like maybe you uh said something that you shouldn't
have to one of them, and then it's just like, yeah,
that's lots more problems than it should.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Also, a lot of WOW is built around vectoring in
on people of the same skill as you and playing
with them, and it's just very often going to be
true that two random people, even if they're dating, aren't
going to necessarily have the same skill as each other,
and that often creates friction right where one of the
people will be seen as being carried right, And there's

(52:12):
also a lot of sexist stuff that will make that
assumption get made as well. Or yeah, so that can
lead to a lot of strife in the M plus
group or in the RAID group as a result.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
Like I think the M plus group would have a
lot of situations where, you know, constructive criticism is perfectly
fine if you're not being an asshole, but like you
feel anytime you're introducing this element into a group, there's
this feeling of like needing to defend, Like I have
to defend my partner, even if they were doing something
that if they weren't their partner, they would have also
criticized them for or something like that. And maybe they

(52:45):
do on their own time, but like they don't let
other people do it, and it's just like a weird dynamic.
I think it's a kind it's like kind of cringe
for sure, right, it's more Is it any worse than that?

Speaker 1 (52:55):
I don't think it's that bad. Like I think it's
you know, you kind of have to compare this to
the counterfactional do where it's like maybe you just wouldn't
even be in a key with these people at all
if if it wasn't for the fact, like maybe the
reason is wanting to do and plus is because they
can eat it while they do again plus right, and
like if they don't, if they don't have that, then
they're gonna be playing valories instead.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
You're never gonna smaller, I guess now. Yeah, so that's
the only because I was about to say there's certainly
a kind of cringe element to it. Yeah, it's like
basically it's basically harmless, but there's some kind of cringe element.
There just needs to be something that's good about it
to offset that to put it back in harmless and
that would just have to be the group finder. Is
is it really common enough to where it would noticeably

(53:33):
affect the group finder? So I think I don't think
so at all. I would have it be cringe. I
think I think it's just like a little it's just
sometimes annoying but mostly harmless.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Okay, I'm I'm fine with kind of cringe for it. Yeah,
I think it's it depends on that. Like the worst
cases of this is like this dynamic can lead to
some really messed up group group situations.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Oh yeah, we're gonna We're gonna be getting into that
later when we get to the husband and wife GM
very similar situation seasonal Simon, Uh, this is what the
the person who plays Wow for one or two months
every season in quits. Yep, bro, this is like my
whole guild. So I'm bound to say this person owns.

(54:12):
I think this is like the the the most happy
person playing Wow as a seasonal Simon.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
Yeah, I say that's most players that play Wow nowadays
and come back check out of a season for like
a month or two in the event, you know, maybe revisit
some other time.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
It's funny because I also think the people who play
year round are go toed too, right, Like.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Yeah, about to say, would seasonal Simon not be goaded
because they are supported by the fact that so many
people play it year round, Like basically seasonal Simon isn't
creating the game, it's the or maybe they are. Maybe
enough people buy the patches or buy the expansions and
play the patches enough to support the I don't know

(54:51):
which way it is.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Yeah, well, I mean Blizzard supports VIZ like vis is
how exactly Blizzard wants the game to be played right,
like they want you to be checking miss out. Then
maybe if we'll check out some other forms of Wow,
like maybe Season of Discovery or you know.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
I think it's very much true that like over the
past ten years, Blizzard has identified that this is this
is a player that they didn't support enough with old
versions of the game, and now they need to to
stay competitive. I don't know, though, I think I think
it's it's good, but not I don't know. I basically
think this as neutral, Like I don't think if somebody

(55:31):
plays seasonally versus year round, I don't know which of
those I'd have a higher opinion of.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Inherently. I think I would say.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Macro scale the people who like the people who Blizzard
are largely after as people who who don't even do
this seasonally. They do it like expansionally, right where they'll
play the first two months of an expansion and not
even touch the patches, right.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
That's my friends, Yeah, that's like, Yeah, I would say
these players are ten tend to be more positive about
the game, and they tend to be.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
I guess, yeah, to the extent that like, this is
a person who wouldn't enjoy the game if they played
it year round, and so they play it seasonally and
they do enjoy it. Those people are making a great
decision for themselves and our goats for that.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Where are these people are seasonal Simon's ever annoying? It'd
be hard to make a case. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
The most annoying thing that a seasonal sigmon I think
could ever be accused of is if they have really
short term views of how a patch should work, where
it's like they basically want the patch to be tournament
RealMed and you know, you get handy.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
I mean, is that exactly bad?

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Actually, it's not that bad. I don't think I'm trying
to like this is the worst thing you could say
about them.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Yeah, but I actually don't even think Usually those are
the people that ever make those kind of arguments. They're
usually just like happy to play the game and go
through the progression and then it's just when it slows
down for them, they're just happy to move on for
another game, but also acknowledging that they will come back.
You know, I think these people are like, it's w
are harmless for me.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
I think if anything, I would say like the opposite
is probably had more potential to be negative. Like if
you're someone who's playing permanently, you probably have much more
issues with the game. And I would consider myself that right, like, yeah,
I always play this game, so I'm read more critical
about like the things that Blizard does.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
The happy index is the more seasonal you play, the
happier you are as a WOWD gamer, and the playing
all patch typically it seems those people are more unhappy
with the game.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Yeah, It's like for any given person, you would probably
be happier if you People always are happier if they're
left wanting, if they leave when they still kind of
want more rather than after it's overstate, they're welcome, right, Like,
this is why a one hour board game is just
always going to be more popular than a four hour
board game, right even though exactly, but then there are
some people who love it so much that they're down
for the four hour version, right and like.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Those are great like that.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
But yeah, for any given person, you're probably you know,
thirty second, the thirty minutes less of a board game
is probably going to be.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Better for you. Okay, Okay, the rbgar holy shit, this
is this, This is the new anchor I think is
the rbg ors are some of the most despicable people
on this planet. They would in the past, they would
d'dos their own teammates if they were playing on a
different team the next day, and then that wouldn't they
were so fucked up that like they would just that

(58:13):
person that got didos would just q with his old
team again, it's just part of the territory. They are
the most like decrepit individuals. Like like, their their content
this whole time like kind of can't be streamed because
it wouldn't be twitch safe in any way. And and
that's probably still true in twenty twenty five. Uh, it's

(58:34):
it's brutal out there there. It's bad, and the rbs
are fun too. One of the smallest communities. Yeah, it's
definitely the lowest of the low of the PvP community,
that's for sure. As far as the individuals, the the
nefarious individuals involved. Yeah, any other thoughts anyone else, anyone
make an arbit case.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
I mean, the argument here is eternal damnation or do
we create a new tier below eternal damnation? Those are
those are the two options I'd be considering for RBGAR
and for the purposes of the video show, we could
just leave it on these tiers. But yeah, that's what
I'm thinking. There's no way it's ever any higher than that.
I And I will say this with the caveat of like,
I've done rbgs with my guild in Shadowland season one

(59:15):
for a bit, because like that was a good way
to get VP stuff and that was kind of fun,
and rbgs themselves I could see actually kind of enjoying.
But nobody who does it as their main form of
the game has ever been a person that I like,
would want to interact with ever.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty We'll say the casual RBG
years are cool. Yeah, maybe asual RBG years, you know,
maybe're just having a good time. Like I remember joining
some RBG group where it's like all drunk and just
having a good time. Hell yeah, like the the try
hard RBG years they're the worst. They're like bad people. Yeah,

(59:53):
maybe there's a large amount of casual rb gears to
like weigh that out, But I think that even if
it's a small community, how bad the high level rbg
ars are just puts it at the absolutely can't be
higher than the lowest.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Agreed all Right, Up next is the multi classer. And
this is like a positive one, right where this is
somebody who just plays a lot of classes and is
good at a lot of classes and uh yeah that's
spoiler alert. That's good. That's a good thing to do.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Yeah, yeah, I think so, because that's the I think
we have a few.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Yeah, we have like.

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
THEA to the fotom reroller. Yes, like this is this
is one side of the coin.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
And ya, this is literally like how good you are
at doing this will determine whether you are a multi
classer or a foudom reroller, which is a category that's
going to come up later. But the people who are
like successfully able to just pick up a new class
always be good at it, maybe not be the best
at it, but like if there's a tier where you
need three warlocks, their warlock and they're good. And then
if there's a tier where Mooncin is meta an M plus,

(01:00:58):
they're a moon Can and they're good, right, And and
you need you need an extra you need a third
tank for a boss, they activate tanks back and they're good, right,
And like they're just they're just good at wow. And
it's not their skill. Isn't, you know, isolated to a
spec that they're good at, Because there's a lot of
people for whom that's true, right, where it's like this
person is way better at their mainspect than their aspects,
and this person I'm thinking of here is somebody where
it's like maybe they're like a little bit better at

(01:01:19):
the spec they usually play than the other ones, but
if they needed to, they could pick anything up and
be like equally good, real fast.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Yeah, And it comes from a place of like helping
out right. The decision to do this is like, oh,
it helps our team for me to play this instead
of my main things, so I'll do that. And then
being successful at the thing that is also helping other people.
It can also be selfish. I guess, like you want
to top the damage meter. That's you're a purely egotistical,
self centered person and you want to always be on top.
So you have to do that. But if you do it, well,

(01:01:46):
you know, you're kind of the goat feel like, I
think it just goes. I think I think the multi
classers in goat category, I don't are they ahead of
bench Beast.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
No, I feel like Goat is a little bit too hot.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
I was thinking, W interesting, okay, because.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
I feel like, you know, go would be like, you know,
if you're like, if you're actively doing something good for
the game, whereas WS just kind of like, you know,
it's nice to have this player.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Yeah, like you've convinced me. I mean it's also two
to one, so you outnumber me. But yeah, I agree,
Well doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Your opinion is relevant, so w it is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Yeah, yeah, two to one.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
All right, we've got group Finder Gerald, this is this
was this is like the person who pugs, right, we
we we had pugging and then we're gonna do like pugging.
But then we already used a lot of the p
first names. So then we had to go to to
g for Group Finder Gerald.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Who's group Finder Gerald again?

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
Group Finder Gerald is the guy who fills out the
goddamn group Finder. Like he's the guy who's doing the
plus fours, he's doing the plus sixes, he's doing the
plus eights, he's in those normal runs on a Monday,
like he's shit. He pugs everything.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Like all of the content this person does is created
and listed through the group Finder. Some of it maybe
they're listing themselves a lot of it. They're just joining
people's groups, right, and like they're they're just applying for
things in the group Finder, and then they're doing whatever
they get invited to.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
This person is kind of like a solo player.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Yeah, they're like a sarch.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
That should be a category too, actually, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
They play the game without making social connections or long
term social connections, but they do the group content right,
Like they're not they're trying to do all the raids
and stuff, but you know they're doing it on they're
gonna do. They're gonna end up t youer like seven
of eight normal, three of eight heroic or something, because
that's what they've pugged.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
They're doing the game the opposite is the way Blizzard
is pushing you in the direction of Like Blizzard wants
you ever since this game came out, wants you to
make that connection, wants you to they want to push
you if you want to do harder content, they make
it so you basically need to be in comms for it.
And that's the target, Like that's what they want and
you're doing the opposite of that. But also they're filling
the groups for all the people that are.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Yeah, because it's like the life blood again, this is
this is a really high tier because if these people
didn't exist, you wouldn't be able to stuff in the
rear finder and find like these people are just they're
the free agents that make the thing run.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
I mean, and it's it's w or Goat no matter what.
They're certainly not harmless. They they are they are positive,
They're objectively positive. I'll just say, w Right, I'm fine
with w as well. I think we can keep Goat
to be a exclusive tire.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
Okay, Oh god, up, next is the key lever.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Uh So this isn't This isn't a person maliciously joining
groups with the intention to immediately leave them in grease.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yeah, we talked about adding that, but then we came
to the conclusion that that person is so rare that
it doesn't act.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
And it doesn't really warrant discussion, right, Like, we didn't
make a category for cheaters or griefers or any of
that stuff. Maybe we should have, but like obviously that's
eternal damnation, right Like, but this is this is a
different type of person that is more common and does
not think of themselves necessarily as a bad person. Uh,
and like just trolling or whatever, Like they they're just like, yeah,

(01:04:59):
we wiped on the first full of this, you know,
plus seven priory, or we wiped on the second boss
of this plus seven priory, and even though we still
have seven minutes, I'm out of here, Like there's no way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
And before you hit release Spirit, the group has four
people in it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Yeah, exactly. They are immediately gone at the first line
of struggle. Most annoyingly is when it does happen at
the end of the dungeon, like it's literally like last boss,
still enough time to time the key wipe once and
they're gone, right And then.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Does this include also these subset of players And this
used to be the case more I believe with the
old scoring system, is this the person that once they
realize that a t that the key isn't going to
be timed, they leave it because on their radario they
don't want it to show up that they had an
untimed key. Yeah, that's a low that's a low bar

(01:05:43):
because that's like because I think the key lever is
is probably like respects their own time mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
And their perspective. They'll just tell you like, hey, I
came here to get this out of the key, and
once it became claria, I wasn't going to get it
out of the key. I'm out of here. And in
some cases it's like it's not even it's just once
it was clear it was going to be hard, I'm
out of here.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Does when you leave the key matter, like, like, if
you think about it, Let's say you wipe on the
very first pull of a key, and you're doing a
key level where it is true that you will not
time the key because that just happened, you just use
lust you wipe. I'm not saying that is true all
the time, but let's say you're in a key level
where that is true. I think if there's ever a

(01:06:23):
time to believe. It's yeah, if there's ever a time
to be leieve and stop the run, it's right there.
So all of you save twenty minutes of your time.
But like if you're on the second to last boss
or the last boss or the trash before the last
boss leaving because you're not going to time the key
or otherwise for any reason, leaving because whatever, then it's
like you could have just finished it and got crest
and loot, and you just fucked over four people because

(01:06:44):
of some weird reasons.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
And I think that's often what's happening is they're in
the key for a different reason than other people. And
even even after you wipe in the first poll, and
it's not true that you're definitely going to time or
deplete it, right, it's like, oh, this key has this
key is not going to be one of those smooth,
easy runs. This key is going to be a run
where like I'm gonna have to carry, We're gonna have
to not make any more mistakes, and we still are.
It's gonna be posed on the timer, right, Like I

(01:07:07):
don't want to do that. And the disconnect is, you
know the other people in the group, do you want
to do that, then you're leaving. But yeah, it's hard
because that spot is a little you know, morally gray.
I think the best solution to this, and there's a
good version of this, which is somebody who makes the
intentions like clear at the start of the key, like
before you start the key, where it's like, hey, I'm

(01:07:29):
here for the score. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna
leave if if if we're clearly depleting, right, But not
a lot of people want to say that before a
key starts, right because like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Or maybe someone who asks in chat like like like
if you just wipe, is it likes this key? Cook now?

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Question right exactly? And nobody has any problem with that,
right Where if if the group just all agrees to
this band, or even if like if three people want
to quit, that's a lot different than one person unilaterally
pulling the plug on the on the group, right, mm hmm, dorky,
what do you think?

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
From my experience, more often than not, people will leave
if it's like agreed upon. But there are the criminal leavers,
the ones who like they will just like a poll
goes completely south and like you know, maybe like they'y
Usually the ones to blame. You're just going to leave
the group, yeah yeah, or they'll just like fake DC,

(01:08:17):
They'll just like you know, all to have four and
just like completely gone. I've been in so many groups
whereever this has happened where like I literally joined first pull.
It goes really bad instantly the group and like it's
the fastest key I've ever ended my life. So I
think it depends on which type of person this is.
I mean, it can vary from like blow up all

(01:08:39):
the way to it's completely harmless.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Yeah, I'm thinking I guess I'm thinking of the.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
More averages out lower than harmless.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
Yeah, I'm thinking of the like malignant versions of this
more than the benign ones, because I agree there are
cases where you can leave a key and it's fine
if we.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Have this relatively near the top. I also think, I
don't know if this is this matters, but I think
if like we tweet this list, I think one of
the biggest hold ups people will have before actually listening
to our discussion will be seeing key lever not at
the absolute bottom, because they're assuming it's the like, yeah,
that's it's like the bookman like before yeah, before we
uh talked about it, and we said, we didn't include

(01:09:17):
this person. There is this person does exist where they
will join a group, just like the same person who
accues into a league game with the intention of griefing
the team. There is the wild player that will sign
up for a key with the intention of making that
key hell for people. We just think that's so rare
and so like, you know, obviously that person sucks that
we didn't include it, but I think people will refer

(01:09:39):
to that person when they see this text without here.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Yeah. I mean, if you've ever if you've done even
one key or that's happened to you, you you know
you're gonna hate that. So yep, yeah, I would want
to go low as well.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Here.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
I think I would cap out it. I don't like you,
but I'm I'd be happy to blow up as well.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Because it's the average. It's the average, right I would.

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
I would.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
I don't like you, Yeah, I say the averages. I
don't like you. And just like Dorky said, there is
people who leave and it's like totally logical that they leave, uh,
And it's kind of closer to harmless, but it's closer
to their for sure. It's not blow up if you
include the other thing, it's blow up.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
Right of course, if you'd do the other thing, and
maybe we're talking about eternal damnation even.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Yeah, exactly, Okay, yeah, I don't think it's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
All right, Denial Dennis Frank give us the spark notes.

Speaker 4 (01:10:27):
Denile Dennis, the guy who five years ago was asked
to fill for a tank who couldn't make raid on Sunday.
He's still thinking to this day's but he still tells people,
he still tells people, Yeah, he's a DPS maide like
he'll be back soon. But but that's the guy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
This was me for a little while now being no
longer in denial, but I was for.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
This most high level guild. I was actually talking about
this with Relo today in our discord, Like that most
tanks in high level guilds end up stumbling into it
as a backup and covering for someone, and then they're
good at it, and then their guild is obviously going
to continue asking them to do that. But it's just
how long of a process it takes for you to
actually accept that you're a tank. Now. But I mean,
this is I mean, so I'm biased because this is

(01:11:10):
totally me or was me, Uh, I feel like it's
really high because like you're just doing something. The only
way this would happen to you is if you were
good at something and people wanted you to keep doing it, right,
So you're you're filling a need right to help other people.
So like it seems like it's a positive thing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
The only way you're in a more TBS right, and
then you're you're literally sacrificing what you want for the
good of the of the team.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
Yeah, So what has happened a lot with It happened
a lot with Augmentation of ookres. A lot of oggs
got pitcheonholed into being into playing ogs and they're like,
I don't want to do is that you were but
like verevi og of the guild or the group and
they just have to be like playing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
It, dude. The like three tiers where og was meta
for the guild or two tiers or whatever. We the
turnover rate for our ogs was one hundred percent. We
never had somebody play Augmentation evocre for so I'm thinking
Avarice Farm, Amir Drissil and Narrabar Palace. We never and
and I guess this the Faded season as well. Nobody

(01:12:09):
who played OG ever played it a second season in
a row. They hated it so much that they they
uniformly did not agree to.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Yeah, tanking is more fun than OG. I mean, you
can have fun taking.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Because and M plus, I actually think there are people
that enjoyed DOG, but I never knew any person who
enjoyed high end rating on OG.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Denial Dennis is a w Okay. Also, that's rank.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
I feel like there isn't really a ranking for someone
like this, but well I'm never.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
W I mean there isn't there is a ranking, right
like they like they do harmless means they had like
no impact whatsoever if Denial Denniss didn't exist, which meant
that they would say no to going back to being
a tank. And no, I'm only a DPS. I think
like everyone would be worse off, right because like someone
has to do. That's That's why I would put it
up one for harmless.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
All right, up, now we have the person who pays
Max's salary r WF fan goat fucking goat?

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
What a goat? My goat blow up? Well, okay, so
what impact do these people have?

Speaker 4 (01:13:15):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
Uh, it's I think negative because like Okay, for example,
you saw this at the end of this raid, where
like we killed Galliwick's fast and there wasn't like this
epic ending to the race. And these people don't play well,
but they talk about it a lot because they really
enjoy the race as like a viewing experience. But they'll
make arguments like like Galliwick's is the worst thing to

(01:13:39):
ever happen to the game. Right, But if you're actually
like a mythic greater, you'd rather a boss be closer
to Galliwicks than it was to answer ec Right. But
like the conversation can be dominated by you're it can
be dominated by like people who are making opinions about
the game that don't actually play it. I think that's
certainly a point of friction.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
They're also extremely nationalistic.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
Yeah, there's like a subset of first fans that are
like these aren't like they don't just watch the Race
world first. They are tuned into exclusively like TTV Maximum
or t TV gingy TV, and they are going in there.
They have both of those streams open, and in one
of them they're type they're typing like nice annoying stuff,
and in the other one they are banned after the

(01:14:25):
first message.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
They Yeah, they're permanently based.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Yeah, they're they're permittent one of them, and they're they're
avid chatter in the other one and uh or maybe
they're permitted both. Honestly, a lot of the times these
people are are annoying enough or you know, they're the
they do the thing that people they think they would
be they would be appreciated by the race world first
people and is not, which is like flaming the other
team and the people's chats.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
Like these are the kind of people that don't watch
Wow all year round. And when they're not watching Wow,
they're in na Versus EU counter Strike, Valoriant, League of Legends.
They're like typing like lcs like worst thing ever l
e C better like that. These are those people. They've
just like the airport.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
Yeah, they come up with the like the amount of
funny though burger related coppy pastas that these people inventor.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
It's it's really good. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
So there's still contributions to the culture that comes from
these people, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
But they also are worth a lot of money.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
I would like to I just want to make sure
that that's that's just known. But I mean, okay, so
I think most people's interaction with the Race World First
fans is like net negative definitely. How low are we going,
Like hmmm, class? There there are the that is class
discord demons.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Maybe not so yeah, again, like we're we're not talking
like there's being a Race worlds fan can be a
great thing, but we're thinking of like the type of
people that like these are the annoying Race World first fans, right,
oh dude?

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
Yeah, but like also think about the ratio of people
that actually chat versus view anything. And the people we're
referring to are almost exclusively the chatters, which are usually
a like very specific part of it, and it's a
very small number of the overall viewers, like very very small,
like like five percent actually, and they're also like the
most negative and toxic in general people who decide to chat.

(01:16:22):
So like maybe we're cherry picking, like maybe maybe the
vast majority of Race World First fans, including the ones
that don't play wow, actually just watch the race and
they find it really fun and they're completely harmless, but like, man,
the best in general, right, because right, like we're talking
about the classes comments.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Yeah, Like this.

Speaker 4 (01:16:41):
But we're not.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
It's I'm just trying to say, it's not race the
worst race or world first fan. You know, you know,
it's like there's a lot of them that are probably inconsequential,
But I mean, why would you even think about the
inconsequential ones, right you? Yeah, the ones that you're aware
of that you deal with are on average very annoying.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
Right, the people for whom race world first fan is
the primary way they interact with the game. Even among those, Like,
there's a lot of good people, but we're thinking of
a specific type, right, the people that are the people
that are banned in some race or old first yets.

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
I mean that those people are the worst. Yeah, I would,
I would go blow up for sure. Then I think
I think I want to put blow up.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
It's weird because, like you know, I'm I'm selectively moving
the goalposts on each of these categories based on how
I'm feeling in any given.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Which is totally fine, by the way, Who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
But yeah, this is this is our tier list, so
we could do whatever we want. I want to put
blow up as well, because it'll be good clickbait for
our beautiful or post about this business decision.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
Yeah, what do you think, dorky? Same thing or are
you We.

Speaker 3 (01:17:44):
Can always change our decision if we need to.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
True before we go any farther. Is there anything here
that sticks out and feel like it's in the wrong category?

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Do we want to reevaluate complaints but doesn't play?

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
Yeah? Maybe is that?

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
I think you guys were probably right that that's maybe
a blow up eternal.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Damnation yep, yep, yep, yep, saying it's.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Not as bad as a pvper, but nothing's as bad
as a pvper.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
But still I think I think, I think so far
this looks right with that one being moved, Wowhead commentered
belongs down there for sure. All right, Uh, okay, we
have guide writer. This is I think not I believe
this is not just like Wowhead or icy Vans guides.
This also includes what like the YouTube guide writers and

(01:18:25):
stuff like that, like people who would make like like
Mega said, I don't believe is the official misweaver guide
writer for any of the big websites, but she'll do
like a like a video that a lot of people
would enjoy it.

Speaker 4 (01:18:37):
So is it?

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
Is it all of those people fromk yep?

Speaker 4 (01:18:39):
It's uh it's everyone who does guys, So.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
Okay, So there's a little cross over here because sometimes
people like that are class discord demons for sure, but
I think in general they're just doing something positive for
the community people need. Wow's a really complicated game, made
a lot of different decisions, Like guides need to exist,
someone has to do this. They probably vary in quality,
but I feel like they're positive, right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
They certainly do. And the thing is, like, you can
write a thirty page guide that has like one section
that's wrong or something like that, and like, especially with
the way that a lot of the guides are formatted,
you know, they have all of these extra sections for
search engine optimization and stuff like that, and that's like
not really the guidewriter's fault, but it means that those

(01:19:26):
arts of it are going to get cherry picked and
if there's any like misinformation in there. Even if if
you write a guide that's you know, ninety eight percent
good two percent bad, I guess part of the reality
is you're going to get You're gonna get a lot
of flame for that two percent, somewhat deservingly so, right,
But like it is, I think that leads to a
negative perception of the guide writers, even in cases where

(01:19:50):
like most guides are just mostly pretty good and they
shouldn't be treated like a gospel. But for the most part,
like if you wanted, if you told me, hey, pick
up this, pick up Demonology Warlock that you've never played
for two expansions. Uh, my first port of call is
going to be a guide and then I'll probably watch
you know, some VODs of TD playing demo on something,
and but I'll have the context from the guide of

(01:20:12):
like what the abilities are and how they work and
why you do what you do.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
So one of the word we talked earlier about a
mistake you can make as a streamer or content creator
of not being in the class discord. The the absolute
pinnacle of that is if you are a guide writer.
Oh yeah, and are not in the discord of if
you're not considered one of them from the people, your
life is going to be. Those people will make your
life hell. You will just you will read things about

(01:20:36):
yourself that you didn't even know existed, Like like they
will disgree.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
Yeah, that's great. Jack learns every tier that he doesn't
play Holy, even though he does play Holy, but he
learns every tier from the commenters that he doesn't play well.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
I mean, Jack has it especially bad because I believe
just and this is probably just RNG, but specifically healers
and healer priests have like one of the most like
toxic core of people involved with it. And like he's
also happens to be a priest guy who is a
guide writer who isn't part of that group. So it's
like literal worst case scenario he has crafted for himself. Yeah, yeah,

(01:21:13):
that uh okay.

Speaker 3 (01:21:14):
So so I would consider myself a guide writer, right,
And I have definitely encounter a lot of those situations
where I've learned things about myself that I've never known about.
And also it's because I'm a streamer, right, so, like
people will often take things that I say out of context.
Like I'll say like some random bullshit sometimes just for
like we're fine, you know, Like like sometimes I get
tired of people asking the exact same thing over and over, right,

(01:21:36):
Like the people ask me like, oh, like why do
you play this talent? Like sometimes I'll just completely make
up something and that'll get clipped out of context or something.
But yeah, I would consider myself in this category. So
obviously I'm gonna RAPI this very highly. But also it's
not just the class guide writers. We got to remember
like all the old g guide writers who used to
write guides on like you know, how to level herbalism

(01:21:56):
or like it get certain transmogues, right, like, uh, the
old dungeon guides like uh in total Biscuit used to
a bunch of these.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
Dungeon guys raid raid boss guides, dude.

Speaker 3 (01:22:09):
Yeah, Like, these guys are extremely valuable to the community,
and I think they deserve the top of goat.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
Oh shit, all right, let's fucking do it. Yeah, I
love it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:21):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
I'm down again with the copyat that. Like, these guys
got a lot of hate though, and some of it
is sort of understandable, but I don't even think much
of it is justified.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
Yeah, okay, next we have the glue. So the glue
is someone in your guild. Doesn't matter if they're an
officer or not, or they're not group.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
I think, in fact, kind of part of it is
that they're they're usually not non normally empowered, uh, but
they are like low key the most important person for
like the culture and the atmosphere of a group.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
Of Yeah, they're the person you you like, you see
after raid there's like a group of people hanging out
in discord and that person's in there, and you're like,
I'm joining that channel. Like they're they're the person who
keeps the guild together. They are the like unassigned morale
officer in the way that they just make the raid
more fun to be a part of. Uh their skill level.
Usually they end up being good because it's just easier

(01:23:18):
to like people that are not below the like skill
parody you set for your guild, because that's just like
how it works. But this's just just for the sake
of argument. They're not like a fucking banger player they
have to be this.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
This is like they're probably above average in your guild,
but they are not your best player.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
Typically, Yeah they could be, they could be, but yeah,
but it's it's more just they're they're not a an
I sore in the raid and they're just a fucking
great vibe and they they or these people keep guilds running.
These people like that's actually one of the things I
would attribute our guild's success to is like we never
recruited anyone for the reason of having them be an
enjoyable person but we just like Rang High rolled an

(01:23:56):
insanely large amount of funny and very like charismatic people
I like. I think we probably have like six to
eight people in our guild that I would describe as
this that would solo carry other guilds with their personality alone,
and that has been so insane. I think this is
I don't know if it's top of Goat and this
has to be go like this. These people are fucking insane.

(01:24:18):
It's true in any game too, and it's true Mythic Plus,
and it's the same thing in Mythic Plus too, Like
you might seek someone out in Mythic Plus that's like good,
but they're just a fucking vibe to do content with. Okay,
that's greg in then plus scene. Yeah around, you know
everyone's above guide writer.

Speaker 1 (01:24:35):
Guide writers should be to the right of Goat. Let's
get let's get bench beast back over to the It
should be like the glue and then bench beast and
then yeah guy, as you put Guy right. Civilians are
are important to because guidewriters, we love them, but there
is some negative to guy writing right or yeah, these
other ones are cure positive.

Speaker 2 (01:24:53):
All right, Holy shit. This next one man.

Speaker 1 (01:24:56):
Dozn'd and wife GM team. This one is crazy. So
if you you aren't a patron of the pottyc you've
missed out on a lot of us reading drama stories
that people send. In The amount of them that involve
a some kind of like husband and wife GM team
is I think disproportunate to the amount of husband and
wife GM teams that are out there. So it's a

(01:25:16):
very drama centric position.

Speaker 2 (01:25:18):
Before we put them very close to the bottom. Is
it possible that this is like reading reviews on an
apartment management company, where like you just people are only
going to leave reviews if it's bad, so like you
just only hear about the absolute worst case scenario. And
then it's because it's the novelty of a husband and

(01:25:38):
wife you just tell all your friends about it, and
even though it could be just like two people you know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
And there aren't good cases of this as well. In fact,
one of the girls on my server that has like
had a husband and wife tank coach tank co tank
GM thing going on for twenty years or something and
that's been working fine for them. So it's definitely not
always a like an awful thing. I think it's one
of those things where the thing is so the e

(01:26:04):
edators when we when we talked about those earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
Yes, if you have a negative.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
Experience with a needator, it's probably impacting three other people
because it's usually a mythic plus.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
If you have a negative experience with the husband and
wife COGM team, it's impacting like thirty other people that
are in the guild, right, And so that leads to
a lot of stories getting you know, you don't need
a lot of you don't need a lot of negative
husband and wife GM combos for there to be a
lot of stories a lot of people that have had
a negative experience with one.

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
When husband and wife GM goes bad, it's like looney
tune shit, Like it doesn't even sound like real life.
What transpired in some of those drama times like that
are potty teas. They are like it's it's absolutely insane,
it's I mean, okay, so it's not harmless, right, there
are positive ones. It is below harmless one hundred percent.
I don't know how many. No one can know the

(01:26:52):
ratio of good examples of husband and wife GM versus negative.
But holy shit, is there a lot of negative right, Okay,
so I will time in.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
I will say I have been in the husband and
wife guild and that was actually a positive experience. Okay,
this this was back in Legion while I was just
playing a lot more casually. Like I think it depends
on the level of guild you're playing at, or like
how much of a progression guild versus social guild it is.
Because when I was playing in vat social guild, it
was actually just like good vibes. It was actually like

(01:27:22):
super chill to play in and everyone was like pretty nice,
and we were just like rating for fun, right, which
is kind of rare nowadays. But it depends on what
you're going for. Like, if you're like doing progression rating
and there's like a husband and wife comble, that's only
going to be negative, right, because there's always gonna be
some tension involved. But if you're just like social rating
and it's like a pretty normal husband and wife, they've

(01:27:43):
got their shit together, it's not just like random daters.
It's actually a good vibe.

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
It's so close.

Speaker 3 (01:27:49):
Yeah, I will say more often than yeah, more often
than not, it's negative, I will say.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
I mean, it's the evolution of e dating. You probably
started dating and then you become a husband wife GM.
It's the it's the final form you get you married,
you know, but like it, it's the same thing where
like you in a raid team, just like him at
the plus team, you have to be able to have
constructive criticism to fix problems and get better and stuff.
And there can be that like if you're at a guild,
maybe you feel like you don't want to like criticize

(01:28:14):
one of them because you'd have to deal with the
defense of both, right, and that it's it's kind of
cringe for sure. I think for me, i'd be happen
with kind of crim sure, right next to eat eight, Yeah,
phenomenon basically the same thing. Yeah all right, bench Podcaster
all the way the bottom, Eternal damnation out of here

(01:28:35):
below RB gear Ye all right, Lore Larry.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
So this is an archetype that you didn't know existed,
Max when we were making this the prep for this.
This is somebody who like primarily engages with Wow through
the lore and the story and like they will play
the story.

Speaker 2 (01:28:51):
I didn't, Okay, Okay, now that's fair. I guess I said,
like I'm not sure how much of these because like
I think I think a lot of the people who
would be a Lore Larry are also uh you know,
like like delvers or it's it's like the level of
casual where it's like you're not going to really do
dungeons and raids and stuff, but also like that they're
not an achievement hunter or a collector. We have someone

(01:29:12):
we talk about later in here, which is the collector
a Lord Larry. Isn't that right? They're the reason they
log in in play wow every patch is they're like,
I can't wait to find out what's next. And if
that's true, I feel like you must have had like
a bad couple of years until the war within because
it was definitely the story was not poppin' right. So like,
I don't know how many of those people are left,

(01:29:32):
but as you guys are saying, and I'm sure the
comments will tell me, I don't think I'm right. By
the way, if you're telling me i'm wrong, you're probably right.
I'm just guessing that the uh, there's there's there's not like,
is there a massive amount of these people.

Speaker 1 (01:29:44):
I think it's a pretty small I think for a
lot of people, this is like, like you said, like
this is maybe the third most descriptive thing that'll be
on this list of their personality. I think for a
lot of people as well, it's like there, you know,
maybe maybe the classic side of Wowlore rather than the
retails so much is what they like, right, because Wow
does have like a long rich lore history, and maybe

(01:30:05):
they're not so much figuring out what's happening next as
like immersed in the story and the lore and you know,
characters like Jana and Salvanas and stuff that they really
connect with.

Speaker 2 (01:30:15):
And do they have a Horde flag in their room?

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
Maybe? I would say more often than not it would
be an a Lion's flag.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
But you probably have a lot of books too.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
Yeah, they'll have the Elector's Editions, the Collector's Editions. Cosplay
is a likely thing for these people to be involved in,
or adjacent.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
To, maybe some thin metal posters on the wall of
their favorite Wow moments no free ads.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Yeah, like the cent Arth Boss room is a very
commonly requested one, very lower iconic moment there, so you
may see that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:47):
Yeah, Bro, Frank, can you put the fucking cent Earth
picture up on the podcast when it fucking says that?
Oh my god? Okay, Lord Larry Zone, right, I mean
they keep the game alive.

Speaker 1 (01:30:58):
I think w for this is like again unambiguously good unless.

Speaker 2 (01:31:03):
It be uh has definitely been a lot less of
them nowadays. Yeah, okay, you question. The only potential negative
are they are Lore Larry's the kind of people that
would post all that ridiculous shit about like when Steve
Denuzer stopped working there.

Speaker 1 (01:31:19):
So they may there may be militant lore larries that
in particular, like Powamncer, Yeah, that have like a problem
because I think a lot of a lot of people
had a problem with the Shadowlands story direction in particular,
and yeah, felt that it was really bad and damaging
to the Wow Lore, you know, in a big way.

(01:31:40):
And I think, yeah, the worst the worst impulses of
those people would be to actually go after you know,
the writing staff at the time whatever, which obviously is
not something we can down.

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
But yeah, I mean I also I don't even know
if like people who actually are super down with Lore
would even feel that way. I feel like it is
probably other nefarious Caretor's cause playing as a Laura Larry
just to complain about something they don't like.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
Yeah, I mean, I I'm sure there was some of that,
but I think it was a pretty small minority of
the Lord Larryes.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
Yeah, I don't think it's enough to take them out
of w all right their w Oh another raid leader archetype,
the drill sergeant.

Speaker 1 (01:32:17):
Yeah, you want to explain this one.

Speaker 2 (01:32:20):
Yeah, this is the the leadership style of like I'm
gonna yell at you for making mistakes, you know, kind
of think like military, right, like that that's that's leadership
that works in certain ways. I personally think it's like
not great, but guilds have had success with this. I
think probably like the most famous drill sergeant raid leader

(01:32:42):
is Rignoros, right, like he got a world first blood
legion did really well. He was their leader, and I
think he's the person if you guys have ever seen
like the Diamond and Triangle clip or like him screaming
at that guy when he was helping their guild on
Primordius and Thrown of Thunder is some old shit, but
like like he was a motherfucker man, like he would.
But also like they had success, right, Like some people

(01:33:03):
respond to that, right. I don't think it's optimal, but
like that's the case, I imagine. I wonder how many
drill sergeants remain in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 1 (01:33:13):
It's gotta be a lot less. Yeah, Like I think
this is you know you think about like the classic clips,
like the more Dots guy, and that's like kind of
adjacent to the drill sergeant.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
Not as not as Agro, but yeah, yeah, rg.

Speaker 1 (01:33:27):
It definitely was like there used to sort of be
an understanding that like that's what raid lating did, is
that you yelled at people.

Speaker 2 (01:33:33):
Yeah, That's what it's what it was that. That's honestly
I think like like I wasn't a raid leader then,
but that's what I thought ray leading was. When back
then at twenty thirteen, I didn't think what rig Ros
was doing was bad. I thought that's what being a
raid leader was, right. Maybe that was kind of calmon
so like it's like more of like a times change
people things of alve you know, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
The diamond and triangle I on Gallywick's diamond and triangle
were like right next to each other, and at one
point we realized like somebody said something about between diamond
and triangle and just procked our entire guild. It's a
it's a crazy clip.

Speaker 2 (01:34:07):
Oh, it's a great meme. Yeah. Uh, so I would
use the cultural phenomenons. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wonder man,
So I I want to give them some positive points
because that maybe their idea of leadership and there isn't
another leader and they have to do it and that's
the way it is, and people have a choice to
rate in that guild or not. I will say I

(01:34:28):
think a lot of people in twenty twenty five resent
this kind of leader, Yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (01:34:33):
People are soft these days. You know, back in the
day this would have worked, but now everybody's.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
Soft people, everyone's too soft and nobody's got enough thick skin. Yeah.
It's just typically if someone's playing bad and they know
they messed up and then they just get like berated
in front of a lot of people, they're just they're
not gonna play better after that, right, Like they're gonna
they're gonna feel even worse about themselves. So if you
care about your performance, I think it's like just pretty
negative overall. Yeah, I think I would put this in

(01:35:00):
kind of cringe personally. I don't I don't know if
i'd go and I don't like you because they're doing
something that needs to be.

Speaker 1 (01:35:04):
Done, like the human DVM.

Speaker 2 (01:35:06):
Right, yeah, yeah, where's human dBm here? Oh? Harmless? But
though they're certainly more harmful than the human dBm, the
human dBm is literally the drill sergeant that isn't an asshole, right.

Speaker 1 (01:35:18):
I think this is like you got to adjust for
inflation a bit as well, where like definitely back in
the day, it was not that bad to be one
of these because like that was what everybody did, right,
But now if if in twenty twenty five you're still
drill sergeant ing as a raid leader, like, yeah, I
gotta move on.

Speaker 2 (01:35:37):
Okay, the reply guy really good content.

Speaker 1 (01:35:39):
It is very good content.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
It is good content. I mean yeah, I mean if
we we have like if you're looking at a clip
that's linked in our discord or guild discord over time,
like the person having a meltdown at their raid is
a shout out blasts on I think like like the
raid leader clips I would see, I don't know if
I would really classify him as a drill sergeant, but like, dude,
those clips where he was just like talking really fast

(01:36:02):
and shit is just like, bro, what is happening here?
Is great content? You know.

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
That's how you raid lead.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
That's how you fucking he just like he just basically
says a bunch of words in ten seconds that sounds
like a Hanso Walt if you don't have subtitles on.
And then he just goes, that's how you fucking raid lead,
and his whole guild is like, we didn't hear anything
you said. Thick clip by way, you should say, it's
an all time banger clip all right, reply guy, Frank?
What is the reply guy?

Speaker 4 (01:36:27):
This is the guy where you see any tweet ever
or any post ever regarding World of Forecraft, he will
be in there stating his opinion no matter what.

Speaker 1 (01:36:41):
Yeah. In the replies on Twitter usually negative, right sort of?

Speaker 2 (01:36:46):
Yeah? I mean, I mean, I mean, if you're just
if you're just indexing the average Twitter reply in general,
it's just simply negative. Or is that because they push
the controversial negative ones to the top because that's the
one people are most likely I actually still wonder if
that's actually the case. I remember the like when Twitter
flipped and it like it didn't used to be like that,

(01:37:06):
and then when they made some changes that they like
pushed the algorithm to the more divisive things, and then
that's just whatever you tweet looked like uh, and it
didn't used to. It used to be like reasonable at
the top, more deranged at the bottom. And then that
absolutely flipped.

Speaker 1 (01:37:21):
Yeah, you used to have to click show more replies
to see this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:37:23):
To see the crazy shit. Now the crazy sh it's
just right there, and the stuff that you see.

Speaker 1 (01:37:27):
Like you see, you click show more replies, and you're
ending up.

Speaker 2 (01:37:29):
On a watch list a lot of places. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you're you're you're looking at a completely different subset of
people that you didn't know exist or I've ever interacted with. Yeah,
the reply guy, No way, they're harmless. They're certainly kind
of cringe. I kind of don't like them. Do they
need to blow up? Dorky? What do you think? I

(01:37:51):
don't really interact with Twitter.

Speaker 1 (01:37:53):
So that is so smart.

Speaker 2 (01:37:55):
That is so smart? You are? I really, but I can't.
I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:37:59):
I can't drag myself away, man, I can't. It's the
it's too it's it's like my job. It's like when
you know, like rubber necking on a highway right where
you turn around and you look at the crash or whatever.
I don't do that because I you know, but like
I can't give up the the temptation to do it
with Twitter.

Speaker 2 (01:38:18):
If any of you guys listening to this have been
able to give up Twitter or social media specifically Twitter, actually,
h you are you are? You have made a brilliant
decision and you are just know you made the right one.
Even if you're ever having urges to go back, It's
gotten a lot worse. I'll just tell you that right now. Yeah,
I love it. Reply guy, what do you think from?

Speaker 4 (01:38:40):
I don't like this guy, man. He pisses me off.
Nobody needs to hear your opinion that much. I know
he pays for Twitter Blue too, so his replies at
the very top, I just don't like this guy. Man,
he gets on my nerves.

Speaker 2 (01:38:51):
Where's he? Where does he go? For you? Front you
the most?

Speaker 4 (01:38:55):
I don't like you. I just don't like you. Like
I'm sorry works for me?

Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
That works there? It is all right? Is this the
one trick, pony? Yep? This is the one trick. This
is the drying ye before this tier. This is the
the person that only ever plays one spec or class
and they don't. Is there is there like a negative
connotation to it? It's is it that they literally won't
or they just like they don't care about It's not

(01:39:22):
like the low tier Maine from a fighting game, right,
It's like they just play the same class because they
enjoy it, and they log in every season to man
that class.

Speaker 4 (01:39:30):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
Yeah, there's basically a lot of negatives to these people
because they're the types that will be like, oh, you
know like buff Boom can buff world whatever they're playing, right,
like buff respec on playing, or or they'll have like
class envy and they'll talk about how like that's a
logical thought then it is. But you know, it's definitely
much more prominent with one trick ponies because.

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
You know, yeah, they want their class. It is non
one class.

Speaker 3 (01:39:56):
Yeah, non one trick ponies just want the game to
be well alenced in general, right, but one trick Ponies
will want other classes and specs to be as bad
as possible so that their class can shine. But I
don't think that's necessarily good for.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
A beguin, Like it is it possible that they just
want to get invited to dungeons and they don't really care.
Like in a perfect world for them, every class is good,
not just my class is good, in every other class
is bad. We'll know because doing damage matter. So like,
you definitely want to be the best you can.

Speaker 3 (01:40:27):
You definitely want to be better than Viover or DPS.

Speaker 2 (01:40:29):
Yeah, yeah, I think at the worst.

Speaker 1 (01:40:31):
You'll sometimes get these like false equivalencies that they'll make
where it's like, well, Blizzard, let this fect beop for
this many seasons, so why can't Why do they have
to nerve my class when it's good, Like that's an
annoying thing, And sometimes you get the thing as well
where it's just like, you know, you're trying to enjoy
the season. You agree that, say restur Druid is op,
like all of BFA was kind of like this right
where it's like rest of Druid is op. Most tie

(01:40:53):
en groups play Resturder.

Speaker 2 (01:40:54):
And they'll be hemiately defend bear class.

Speaker 1 (01:40:56):
Yeah, and so like if you're so both rest Dured
one trick ponies and non Resturderuid Healer one trick ponies,
we're kind of just annoying in that season to deal
with because like I.

Speaker 2 (01:41:06):
Agree with you.

Speaker 1 (01:41:07):
I make a video every week where I complain about
rest Rood being as good as it is, But then
like whenever these people spawn into my stream, I'm just
now I'm forced to have that discussion, and it kind
of reminds me of like the you know, the thirteen
hour thing and Race World First, where it's like, yeah, man,
I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (01:41:22):
We have those people.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
Is that the Race Rule First fan the thirteen hour guy?

Speaker 2 (01:41:27):
Yes, that is that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:28):
We have that explicitly in there.

Speaker 2 (01:41:29):
But yeah, I guess put them down one more tier,
so okay, I guess they're fine. Well, they're fine, Okay, continue.

Speaker 1 (01:41:36):
Yeah, it's just like, you know, like that there's a
there's a kind of person where it's like advocating for
their class being. They're always advocating for their class to
be good and for whatever classes are good that they're
the same role as it to get nerved and like
it just gets it can be hard to it could
be greating. So if that's what we're talking about with
One Trick Pony, then that's yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:41:56):
There's known sandbagging too, you know, like this is like
the ATR Yeah yeah, or if this is like whatever
people hop on Max's stream for his tier list.

Speaker 1 (01:42:06):
Oh yeah, true, the people that almost them underrate their
their class. Yeah. See when I heard One Trick Pony,
I wasn't thinking of this person. I was just thinking
of like the guy who has played Rogue for ten
years or like Warlock for ten years or whatever, and
like like THHD right or fired Up, where it's like
this person is a made right and like you think
of them and they are synonymous with that class and

(01:42:27):
to me that has like a pretty positive connotation. But
Dorky has definitely described.

Speaker 2 (01:42:31):
I think person that exists.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
Yeah, so I guess if we're trying to if we're
trying to factor both of these, then we're kind of
averaging out for me like w and blow up.

Speaker 2 (01:42:40):
So I will No, I would say in the community side,
there's definitely a more negative connotation to a one trick
pony then there is positive. Okay, you know, like there's
something noble great players, there's something noble about being a
one trick player and like it doesn't matter you're this
multi class. Everyone's rolling this new broken bottom spec but
not me. I'm playing. I'm playing this. Isn't there something

(01:43:03):
that's like.

Speaker 3 (01:43:04):
A little that's definitely true? Yeah, Like I remember people
talked about this before. How like back then there were
people who are known for Vero class and visions. I'm
not as much of that nowadays, like you know, you
know c do as a shaman guy, Yeah, you know,
reckful as like v rogue V rogue.

Speaker 2 (01:43:19):
Yeah, but like.

Speaker 3 (01:43:20):
There isn't a whole lot of that anymore. So it's
definitely been like water down. So there's definitely like that
going for it.

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
They're minimum harmless, right, Like I don't know, Like I
know there's some negative stuff, but like I feel like
there's a sense of nobility that like I respect the
fuck out of the person that just means the same
shit no matter what, even though sometimes they're definitely annoying.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
Yeah, I think the main thing this is like this
is like fifty different types of guy, and some of
them are really slacked.

Speaker 2 (01:43:47):
Yeah, maybe it needs to be split up more, but
I like the things they're annoying about kind of makes sense.
Like if it's most of them complaining that their class
isn't good enough, it's because they're not getting invited to groups, right,
and that is totally reasonable. Now, are there some of
them that complain because they're every single spec If you're
one trick of it, you need it to be the
literal best back in the game, which is like really unlikely,

(01:44:09):
and then you're mad in complaining. Yeah, but I think
that has to be a minority than just reasonable people
who want to play the game. So I think it's
harmless and like borderline w for me. I know you
guys sound like you're a little lower than that.

Speaker 1 (01:44:20):
I think I could land on harmless if Dorky's okay,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
I I don't want to.

Speaker 3 (01:44:24):
I'm not really like any I don't really feel strongly
either way.

Speaker 1 (01:44:27):
Okayless is again with the copyat that like this is, uh,
this is one of those ones where it's like that
they're you know, it's person to person.

Speaker 2 (01:44:35):
Yeah, oh, here we go, parse Peter.

Speaker 1 (01:44:39):
This is the person who the thing that motivates them
in the game is that that funny number on Warcraft
logs that's to their name, and that is.

Speaker 2 (01:44:48):
And there's an extra element like this is okay, So
because I think there's people who like play this game
that are reasonable people. They're not insufferable or annoying and
like they're not hard to raid with, but like they're
deep down motivation just like some people might be getting
loot or killing bosses with their friends, it is I
want to be doing good damage, I want to push
myself whatever they're not like super insufferable. That's and that's

(01:45:10):
totally normal. But this specific person pars Peter, to be exact,
they wouldn't mind if you wiped on a good poll
in progression or farm if they otherwise got unlucky, died,
or for whatever reason, weren't doing as much damage as possible,
And in their truest heart of hearts, they actually want
you to wipe because they personally aren't playing well.

Speaker 1 (01:45:31):
They would rather you wipe until until they have a
good poll going.

Speaker 2 (01:45:34):
Yeah, this person fucking sucks. Oh yeah, right, Like this
is the.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
Person who's like trying to engineer it so that they
always get to do the AoE, they get the good
CD timings, they don't get any of the jobs that
reduce their DPS, even if they are the best person
who's most suited for doing it right.

Speaker 2 (01:45:50):
Yeah, I actually have a clip of this if you
want to check. Oh this is good. Yeah, it's the
ret Paladin one. Oh no, but it's similar.

Speaker 1 (01:45:58):
Okay, tuning in blow up bomb bomb bomb show.

Speaker 2 (01:46:05):
Wa, dude is ground yelling at them to die bomb. Yeah,
he died during a very good poll, so he's a
parse Peter. It's the bomb show. Yeah, he's literally partial.
Come on, wait, is this the propression kill Yeah? This
was their first, This was their first stix killer. He
was yelling for them to wipe for like ten percent. Yeah,

(01:46:29):
because you know he died on that pole. Dude, it
always sucks being.

Speaker 3 (01:46:33):
Dead on a kill pole, Like you want to have
a good parse when you're killing the boss.

Speaker 2 (01:46:39):
This is a crazy clip.

Speaker 4 (01:46:41):
I can't believe this is I have a strong argument
for putting these guys in go.

Speaker 2 (01:46:47):
Oh okay, okay, let's hear you can use your one
time Frank, you can.

Speaker 4 (01:46:51):
If you're seen both for continually trying to run as
fast as possible for humans, this is this is diculous.
This would be like.

Speaker 2 (01:47:03):
This is.

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
Flying the sun for rising in the morning. It's in
their nature.

Speaker 2 (01:47:10):
Okay, except this, This would be the borat clip. Usain
Bolt is running on a track and anytime he's not
having a good run, he just shoots the other runners
in the leg and then wants to restart the race.
That is what the equivalent of pars Peter would be, right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:47:23):
Yeah, okay, fair enough, but I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:47:27):
Just to be clear, I don't think the person if
you raid in your guild and you're just an otherwise
normal person and you know deep down that actually the
thing that makes you have the most fun playing the
game is that you are killing bosses and doing good damage.
I don't think you suck at all. That's perfectly normal. Actually,
in fact, I think most of the people that end
up rating in my guild do that.

Speaker 1 (01:47:45):
That is, at least end you started that way, even
if you then evolve past it.

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
It's like exactly and like so, but that is not
what we're saying. There is a difference. Yea, we know
what a pars Peter is. You guys have raided with
pars Peter. It's the grol clip. You guys know it is.

Speaker 3 (01:48:02):
So it's when you're not playing to win, You're you're
playing right yourself damage.

Speaker 1 (01:48:06):
Yeah, and that's always really frustrating to play with because
like it's a team sport, right, and then you're playing
with a lone wolf. That's not good.

Speaker 2 (01:48:14):
I think pars Peter is not an eternal damnation.

Speaker 1 (01:48:19):
Yeah, I agree, it's not eternal lamination. I'd be fine
with blow up or I don't like you.

Speaker 2 (01:48:24):
I think it's blow up. Right.

Speaker 3 (01:48:26):
They're definitely quite despicable, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:48:30):
I mean I feel like we made our argument well
and described the version of first Peter we're talking about. Yeah, okay,
bad but good vibes. Yeah, this is.

Speaker 1 (01:48:40):
Easier to exist in the lower ranked guild you are
because it's it's kind of hard to have good vibes
and be bad in a The more competitive the environment,
the more people like, your vibe is just going to
be negative because you're costing people time and progression, and
that makes people not like you.

Speaker 2 (01:48:55):
I would almost even say you can't like in a guilt.
I don't know what guild rank, this, this, stop that
when you go down the list, but I don't think
you can be well liked and be really bad at
that level because like it's just fundamentally, like it just
doesn't work like you. Just like Drattana said earlier, two
people make the same joke, good player and bad player.
No one's laughing at the bad player's joke. Just what
it is. But like the majority of Wold guilds don't

(01:49:18):
even step into mythic, they get AotC or they clear normal.
And in those guilds, the guy who's bad but you
keep him around because he's a fucking vibe, Those those
people own they are like they hard carry the fucking guild.
I would almost just immediately put this in goat. I
know there's maybe some version of this, but the thing

(01:49:39):
is those people don't really exist in top guilds for
that exact reason. Like I'm thinking of that person, I'm
thinking of the person in I might have to use
my one time on it. What do you guys think
about it? Are you lower?

Speaker 1 (01:49:50):
I was thinking maybe W.

Speaker 2 (01:49:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:49:53):
I was also thinking W because it does seem very
similar to the glue, except the glue.

Speaker 2 (01:49:58):
Oh well, yeah, I mean actually no, okay, you're convince
to me for it's like a slightly worse version of
the glue, right, yeah, well, well, I mean it's I mean,
you could literally just change the word bad in the
first part of it and just put good good and
good vibes and their goat and they're objectively better than
bad but good vibes, right, So that would have to
be one tier lower. So you're right, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:50:14):
W W all right. Up next is the politics police.
This is there's a couple of different things that fall
into this, right, but it's somebody who anytime there's anything political,
they're immediately coming in with the you know, I can't
believe their brain. And when we say political here, oftentimes
it's often not political stuff as well, right, or stuff

(01:50:36):
that doesn't have to be political, and it's just some
political lens right where it's like anything vaguely, you know,
social issues related of any kind. They're going to come
in and be like, why why is there politics in
my game?

Speaker 2 (01:50:50):
You know why this happened recently? Yeah, a lot of
the politics police came out. It was, uh, it was
actually we talked about this yesterday, but just one of
the most dystopian things you'd ever seen in your life.
During the US presidential election, there was a Harris Walls
rally going on and they were streaming it on Twitch

(01:51:10):
and I guess they wanted their like boomer Twitch version
of subway servers for it. So Preheat, whose wife has
some connections with the Democratic Party, ended up playing Mythic
plus Keys on like one half of the screen and
the other half was a fucking presidential campaign rally. And
it was I mean, I cannot believe that that happened,

(01:51:33):
just in general on this earth. But what ended up
happening after that is Wowhead simply just made a tweet
reporting the news Hey, this is happening. They're not endorsing
a candidate. They're just like, this fucking ridiculous, crazy shit
is happening. Here's the news. We're a news website. This
is what we're supposed to do. And then all of
the comments were like, get politics out of my fucking game.
I play this game to escape, like this is what

(01:51:55):
I'm trying, and like nothing's in the game. No, nothing's
in wow at all. Like the only reasonable thing would
be like, even if you don't agree with the politics
of the thing, you would just be like, Okay, well
I saw that tweet and I'm moving on to the
next one. I don't care, right, it's those people, it's
it's that's who we're speaking about.

Speaker 1 (01:52:11):
I mean, it was a bizarre happening, to be clear,
Like that was there was a sort of thing where
you look at it and I think, no matter what
your political orientation, as you look at that and you're like,
is this am I am I getting old?

Speaker 4 (01:52:27):
Is it not?

Speaker 2 (01:52:28):
Am I awake?

Speaker 1 (01:52:28):
Yeah? Like am I do? I not understand? Like what
is happening anymore? And yeah, but either way, yeah, I
think it can be often with less political stuff than that, though, Right,
like it can it can be just like all like
little things in the game that these people people will
often see through a political lens, and there's often also
an archetype of this where it's like there they'll say

(01:52:50):
that they don't like politics in the game, but if
it yeah, it's it's they don't like the politics they
don't agree with in the game, which you know is
I think an understandable and human place to be coming
from there. But you know, of course they're going to
frame it in the in the no politics.

Speaker 2 (01:53:06):
These people the problems, we're too vocal.

Speaker 1 (01:53:11):
M Yeah, it's like the best solution is to ignore
it if you don't like it and not engage that
because it's not it's not being chuck down. But they
treat it and they react like it is right.

Speaker 2 (01:53:22):
Yeah, but they're not the politics acknowledgers. They're the politics police.
They're trying to police that ship. They're yelling about it.
They are vocal, and I feel like they suck. Yeah,
they've got to suck big time. Yeah. Also, just like objectively,
I think blow up any any other blow I mean, yeah,
if you guys had I wish there's like a clip
we could share or maybe there is. But like, if

(01:53:44):
you are listening to this and you're like, I can't
even just under, I can't even picture what they're describing,
you're not wrong. It is one of the most insane
things that has happened on this planet. But it did happen. Yeah,
I'm like, what the hell is happening. I can't believe
it was real. All it takes out of my podcast?
All right? All right?

Speaker 1 (01:54:03):
Oh yeah, Like we get these people when we talk
when anything. I think there's a there's sides to this
where it's like I think, you know, the Elon Musk
was mentioned in some way on one of our podcasts,
and ye, the politics police came out in force there.

Speaker 4 (01:54:16):
We did mention Elon Musk one time and got about
three replies from very angry people saying they were unsubscribing
for making the podcast too political when we never mentioned
anything political. This was before the election. We just said, oh,
Elon Musk, that guy, he tweets some dumb stuff and
he's bat at elder Ring too, and they were very
unhappy with that all.

Speaker 1 (01:54:35):
Which it turns out not actually bad at eld Ring.
It's the guy who plays to play it that's bad
at it, so our apology to Elon Musk there was
that was incorrect and they're back all right, Okay, So
up next is the look at my body, which is
an archetype that I think we're all pretty familiar with it.
It's one where you can do this in a meme

(01:54:55):
way and it's very funny and good. But this is
the people who will always disagree with any of their
deaths and will like litigate it. Often during the polls
still or during the key they'll be like complaining about
how they died and how it was unfair that they died.
And they'll either they'll like cite a number that's in
the death log and be like, there's no way that
should do that much damage, right, or they'll they'll be

(01:55:16):
like look at my body. They'll ping the ground and
like there, I wasn't in that right, and they're just
yelling about it. And the thing about wow is sometimes
you're right. Sometimes in a whow you shouldn't have died there,
and like the game is buggy or whatever, and yeah, bad,
but usually it's ninety percent of the time you were
in it right.

Speaker 2 (01:55:30):
And okay, does this category include the tank that dies
and opens his death log and searches for one healing
spell that isn't in there, and then says the reason
he died was he didn't get enough healing.

Speaker 1 (01:55:42):
I think that's a different person. That is usually I
think that that person, if they were on this list,
it would be in quotes I bled out, that's that's
the phrase that you hear from those people.

Speaker 3 (01:55:53):
Well, it's basically in the same category of like blaming
things that are outside of your control. Right, Yeah, that's
basically what this is.

Speaker 2 (01:56:00):
Yeah, it's it's it's people displacing blame away from themselves.
That's what it is. Right, look at my body. I
was out of that. I did the right thing I did.
I'm dead because of something else to bug game, bug glitched,
you know. Yeah, so there, Okay, are we including the
fact that hitting a look at my body when you
obviously did something wrong is hilarious because that would come

(01:56:20):
up Yeah, yeah, that goes hard as fuck. H I
would say, like the unironic look at my body. People
really sucked the raid with and everyone rolls their eyes
when you say it, and that's a vibe killer. So
I'd say it's it's bare minimum kind of cringe. Yeah,
I don't know. I just don't know how big of
an offender they are, Like they're certainly not worse than
like key levers. They're just like kind of annoying, definitely

(01:56:43):
not of that bad.

Speaker 3 (01:56:43):
I feel like I know a lot of people are
like this because, like you know, like sometimes people just
say it because like they genuinely feel that way, like, oh,
like I just got fucked and I don't even know how,
And it makes sense, right, Like if it's like someone
who doesn't often die and they don't usually blame their death,
they'll be they'll be like analyttle analytical about their death.
Then you can be like, all right, you know, this

(01:57:04):
guy's not really a look at my body type of person.
But you know, for a fact, when there's that one
person who will pipe up every single time they die, yeah,
they can be kind of annoying.

Speaker 1 (01:57:14):
This is also the person who they look at the
death statistics on warcraft logs after a night of progression
and you get sent the URL and it has like
ten conditionals in it where it's like, okay, deaths but
not to this mechanic, but not to this mechanic, but
and not in the first phase or whatever, and not
one of the first three deaths, and it's like, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:57:32):
Look at this.

Speaker 1 (01:57:33):
When we apply all these conditions, you look pretty good
on that metric. Huh. But they don't apply, you know,
the same charity to other people's deaths, to like try
and explain why those weren't their faults.

Speaker 2 (01:57:45):
Yeah, I think it's in the right Yeah, look at
my body kind of cringe. Yeah, little cringe, little cringe.

Speaker 1 (01:57:51):
Not not the end of the world.

Speaker 2 (01:57:52):
Yeah, bit cringe. All of us are a little cringe sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:57:55):
All have done this.

Speaker 2 (01:57:57):
Yeah, yeah, support player, what does this mean?

Speaker 4 (01:58:02):
This is the guy who you go into their keys.
They will do all the annoy mechanics. They'll they'll be
on top of the interrupts, the john run and start
the RP on one arm bandit. They'll be running around
throwing coins, not really caring too much about their damage,
but they will. They'll be doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:58:21):
They're also they also did yeah, but they re rolled
on because someone probably had to.

Speaker 1 (01:58:30):
You know, they're they're the best person for it, and
they know it right because they're they're Their entire thing
is doing the job that people don't like.

Speaker 2 (01:58:36):
When you said they're ogs, it made me think a
little lower on the totem pole, but then I remembered that, like,
we're probably not talking about the specific fottom bad floatomery
rollers which we will get to later that were like
terrible at it. You know, this is the person bro,
this person fucking owns man. This makes it makes everyone
else have more fun in the game by existing. It's
kind of like also just being a tank and a healer.

(01:58:58):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:58:59):
Yeah, I think this was the person that OGG was
made for, Like this, this is the group that it
was intended for, and it just went significantly further than
they should have.

Speaker 1 (01:59:08):
Yeah, this is OGG at its best, is this person?

Speaker 2 (01:59:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:59:13):
I am pro OGG. So I am completely fine with
GOAT and I've been saying that I like OGG since
the beginning. I know everyone's always shitting on OG, but
oggs are great.

Speaker 2 (01:59:26):
What do we have?

Speaker 1 (01:59:28):
I'm the raid leader?

Speaker 2 (01:59:30):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:59:31):
This is the person who the only claim to being
a raid leader they have is that they are the
raid leader. But they don't actually do anything.

Speaker 2 (01:59:36):
Right, they don't actually do anything. Okay, this is and
this is by far in case people are wondering when
they're listening to this this If you're like, is this
my raid leader? Most likely I think more than half
of at least mythic raid leaders are this person, which
is they have raid leader by a title and again,
and this may be not a reason to fault them
because again, no one else in their guild is willing
to do it. But in my opinion, when you are

(01:59:58):
tasked with being the raid leader, this is the worst
thing you can do, which is you are not willing
to put everyone else above yourself, and you are going
to make sure that all of your focus is on
you as an individual player in the raid, and then
your ability to raid lead and the mental like load
you put towards raid leading comes after all of that.
And usually what that ends up looking like is either
someone might be saying a few words during the poll.

(02:00:19):
It's usually saying the name of a mechanic that's actively
already happening, and they might hit like a focus up
or something in between poll timers, and I don't die here,
perhaps yeah, maybe you rip it. Don't die here. But like,
functionally they're not actually helping. You're basically progressing without a
raid leader, which by the way, is possible. It's just
having one makes it a little easier and you kill
bosses a little faster. But like a lot of guilds

(02:00:42):
function this way. This is the person that says they're
the raid leader but they're not actually doing it. What
do you guys think? Yeah, are they also egotistical? I
don't necessarily think so. I don't think so. Actually, they're

(02:01:03):
just at least I like to look at it as
they are. They're doing the job no one else is
willing to do and someone has to do it, and
they're not. It's not their thing, so they're not going
to be super great at it, but they're they're doing
their best. I think I feel like we're harmless. Then yeah,
I think they're I think they're harmless. I think if
every person that was like this was truly really selfless

(02:01:25):
and even though that job wasn't for them, but it
was thrust upon them and it has to be them
that they do the better thing, which is just flip
that where instead of your brain power going towards succeeding
as a player, and flip it to where you actually
do as much raid leading as you can possibly can,
and then play with whatever you have left, even if
you die significantly more often and don't do damage early
in progression, your guild will be significantly better. Just a thought,

(02:01:48):
which is, yeah, I think I think harmless is fine,
just like, Okay, where wouldn't be harmless is if there
was more than enough leaders to go around and these
people sought leadership just to say they were the leader,
but then did a really shit job at it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:00):
And that does happen in guilds as well, Like that
is that.

Speaker 2 (02:02:02):
Happens too, Yeah, but I think that's way less likely
than just someone having to lead because they someone else.

Speaker 1 (02:02:07):
Yeah, I think often it like it's a burden that
they're just not really suited for. But they're doing the
best they can often and like you know, they will
do the raid leader responsibilities that fall to them. They
do not not especially well, but they do it because
somebody has to. And uh yeah, I don't know, it's
I think harmless as well. Okay, what the fuck is

(02:02:30):
this next one? This next one is the forty five
year old disc player that's been playing disc prease since
Classic Wow. And he's just a guy that does the
healer assignments and runs everything and he's just like like
allways really old and only plays that speck.

Speaker 2 (02:02:43):
But every guild needs a disc priest. Wow. That is incredibly.
That explains it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:51):
No, there's like everybody knows one of these people. Everybody
knows that they're literally my guild has, my guild has
one of these people. It's a it's a thing. This
is a growl. Gave us this one. Those are his
exact words when but explaining it, and I immediately related
to it. So I think it's it's good. I think
this is like, this is another one of those low

(02:03:12):
key you know, keeps, the keeps any group running people. Right,
they're like, they're healer, they're old, they're veteran, you know,
they're quiet, they're effective.

Speaker 2 (02:03:26):
Okay, then they're not only good but annoying.

Speaker 1 (02:03:29):
Yeah yeah, it's kind of good but annoying.

Speaker 2 (02:03:30):
But they're not annoying, right, they're just they might not
be annoying. Well, they're annoying because they're a healer. Yeah
that's true. Okay, yea, and you're old. That makes you annoying.
Yeah true. W W all right, so that one's what
in uh w are harmless? That one the big long.

Speaker 1 (02:03:48):
Yeah, I think w R s for as all put
in front from maybe ripping a p as well. So
he'll update the list when it gets.

Speaker 2 (02:03:55):
Back and then we have the Harmonssist. This is so
we contact Growy yesterday because we were like, we didn't
just want to put healers in there alone. There has
to be like a certain type of healer and he
would probably know this as well as anyone. So we
got a few from him. And the first one actually,
well we just read the first one, the discreased one.
The one of the others was the harm assist And
this is the by the way, sick name, but it

(02:04:17):
refers to the healer that doesn't really heal all that
well because their main priority is doing as much damage,
usually in a dungeon environment as possible. Are they are
they are in cat form. They're in cat form, and
you're bleeding out, and they're not leaving cat form because
they got to do big dam I.

Speaker 1 (02:04:36):
Feel like people disportionately hate this person, right, Like the
amount of times you get yelled at for this, it's
like the hate for this person is so real that
people get mad at, you know, Discreased for not spending
their manna this season. They look at it and they're like,
why the people who get mad at Discreased for casting
damaging abilities on the mobs, right, and just kind of
don't understand that's how they heal. But the reason they

(02:04:57):
have an inherent hatred for that is that you have
cued with a healer that has done damage instead of
healing you, and you've died and you've hated it as
a result.

Speaker 2 (02:05:06):
Or you misunderstood it, like you you like died due
to healing, which, like healers make mistakes just like everyone else,
just like tanks die and dps die, but like they
don't heal very well. They had a bad poll or something,
they didn't have a CD they normally do, and then
you die, and then you are just like, I bet
I died because that guy was fucking hitting wrath and
that's not even true. But now you've just like said
that this thing happened, you know, and.

Speaker 1 (02:05:26):
Sometimes it is true, right, Like sometimes that's the mistake
that the healer makes, is that they thought they could
agreed for damage and they didn't realize it was about
to do all the AoE and you know, oops, right,
like that happens.

Speaker 3 (02:05:36):
Yeah, Like sometimes your misweaver just hits tiger palm instead,
and because of that, your entire group goes nonverbal and
somehow your team just disbands and one of your rogue
player just quits playing the game for a couple of months, and.

Speaker 1 (02:05:49):
Then you're all back together playing keys again a few
seasons later, and it's.

Speaker 2 (02:05:51):
All a normal Yeah. Yep. Uh. They're not an eternal
damnation or anywhere close.

Speaker 3 (02:05:59):
Honestly, they're like, yeah, I feel like this comes out
of like good will. You know, it's not they're not
intentionally trying to.

Speaker 2 (02:06:09):
There are some, but not the average.

Speaker 1 (02:06:11):
And in some cases it's like somebody who doesn't really
want to heal but is forced to because otherwise there's
not enough healers, and so they're just like.

Speaker 2 (02:06:20):
Yeah, gally fault.

Speaker 1 (02:06:23):
Sometimes it's ironic to put the harvest in harmless.

Speaker 2 (02:06:25):
Yeah it is. That is, Yeah, that put it up
there all right.

Speaker 1 (02:06:30):
Next on posts on slash are slash competitive Wow.

Speaker 2 (02:06:36):
So we are going at the average here. So I
will say there are some uh competitive Wow posters that
know what they're talking about and they try to just
spread That's probably the purpose of the reddit to begin with, right.
They want to spread that good news, the good the
knowledge to the people. They want to help people get
better at Wow. Those people exist, They're in the minority.
The vast majority of people who post on Competitive Wow subreddits.

(02:06:58):
And I especially see that because I look around the
race world first and I see their takes about what's happening,
and it is it is peak Dunning Krueger like it is.
It is the Bell curve thing. It is. It is Uh,
people confidently posting on something they don't really know about
and they think they are experts on it because they
are not super experienced. Uh And but does that cause harm?

(02:07:20):
Are people? Are people like getting misinformed? But usually that
stuff will get downvoted hopefully, you know, so like.

Speaker 1 (02:07:29):
Sometimes on that subreddit things get up voted that that
should get down voted.

Speaker 2 (02:07:33):
Yeah, what are we what are we doing?

Speaker 3 (02:07:36):
At the same time, you know, like I do kind
of change my mind because there was that one competitive
Wow reddit post last night that made Blizzard fixed fortified.

Speaker 2 (02:07:46):
True.

Speaker 1 (02:07:46):
Yeah, I mean I actually post on the subreddited a
reasonable amount of time as well, Like I'm not often,
but like it's just not the subreddit I post on
the most I think is Competitive Wow. I don't do
a lot of posting, but that that is the place where, like,
you know, if there's a good thread, there's because they
often have good threads about stuff and uh there's you know,
interesting things there, so.

Speaker 2 (02:08:07):
It's not w it's not crazy, So it's kind of
cringe or harmless. I would err on the side of
kind of cringe because I have seen some I think
posts that yeah, personally for me too, like the race
is something that I've devoted a lot of my adult
life to and I because of that, I know a
lot about And I have read some confident posts about
the race on that website that have made me question

(02:08:30):
everything of like how how anyone could even possibly think
what they just said and then and it's up voted
and like other people think it too, and it's just crazy.
Uh So I would I would say, kind of crane
for me for sure, not any lower than that.

Speaker 1 (02:08:45):
All right up next to the.

Speaker 2 (02:08:49):
Who's the tyrant?

Speaker 1 (02:08:50):
So the tyrant is somebody like this is like the
guild master. That is like they are on a power trip, right,
and it's all about their authority, and you know, the
guild is full of people that are inferior to them,
and it's like a clear hierarchy and they're like.

Speaker 2 (02:09:07):
Not a raid leader, a guild leader. They are the
yeah there.

Speaker 1 (02:09:09):
Often they'll also be the guild the raid leader, right,
because like they have, they tend to not have to
delegate authority very much because they don't they fear losing it.
And yeah, they're like, you know, the main character of
the guild, and uh, you have to you know, respond
to their paying and do the m plus with them
and gear their alt and do all that stuff at

(02:09:31):
their command, at their whim, right, and like I mean
go into them.

Speaker 2 (02:09:36):
Say less right, like this is this this person totally
blows no one. There is not a single positive interaction
anyone has ever had with this person. Uh, you know,
it's blow up or eternal damnation. You guys can figure
out which one. Mm is it that bad? Eternal damnation?
Not sure? I feel like we hear of these stories
all the time, you know, we're a potty tea, we do.

Speaker 1 (02:09:58):
Yeah, and to some extent, you know, yep, there's some
of the same argument about raid leaders, where it's like
not a lot of people want to be guild guild leaders,
and so sometimes they're filling the service. But this is
usually the worst possible way that it can be done.

Speaker 2 (02:10:12):
Yeah, go, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:10:14):
I'm fine with either of these years as well, So
whatever you think, dorky.

Speaker 2 (02:10:17):
Yeah, it probably will blow up. Okay, all right, blow
up a real quick blow up up.

Speaker 1 (02:10:22):
Next is the pacifist, the.

Speaker 2 (02:10:24):
Opposite of the harmssist.

Speaker 1 (02:10:25):
Right, yes, this is the healer that is uninterested in
ever doing any healer damage. They can have a fight
where there is a minute of no DPS from the like,
no healing requirement, and they will sit there prehatting people
and otherwise afk. Right, they are not casting a damaging ability.
It's not on their bar, right, they like they go

(02:10:49):
into mythic plus keystone. They don't have a damage meter, right,
they have a healing meter, and they are not. They
fundamentally disagree with the idea that healers should have to
do damage or should ever do damage, which a lot
of healers, you know, that's fair, right, A lot of
healers feel that way, although not a lot of them
will actively refuse to damage.

Speaker 2 (02:11:08):
They just kind of don't like doing it, Okay, initial thought,
they have to be higher on this list than the harmonsist,
because if you're going to err on one side of
someone just perma healing or or citing too much on
doing damage, you would just absolutely rather have someone that's
overdoing healing than trying to do a miniscule amount of
dam right.

Speaker 3 (02:11:26):
True, Well so fundamentally that's true, and they are like
better off that way. However, whenever they're voicing their complaints,
they tend to be extremely vocal about hating to do damage,
and you know they're just gonna like say all sorts
of stuff like oh, like Blizzard needs to stop designing
healers that do damage and yahd YadA yah. Yeah, like

(02:11:47):
they just are adamantly against it. I feel like these
healers tend to be the ones that want to just
have a more laid back role and to just yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (02:11:59):
Think Blizzard should actual support that as a play style.
I think they should make a healer where your free globals,
if you don't need to heal, you can just give
like some og style stat buffs to your friends in
the downtime with like, you know, a low value heel
that does that, and then the healers that don't want
to ever do damage can just play that spec.

Speaker 2 (02:12:19):
Hmm. I like it. I would just be a no,
like they're.

Speaker 1 (02:12:22):
A healer, but it's just like instead of casting wrath
during your downtime, you're casting like a very very slow
very small heel that puts a you know, a stat
buff on somebody for a little bit, right, and it's
like it's balanced to be a small amount of damage,
but it's not actually the healer doing the damage. And
that way these healers, because I think that as annoying
as these people can be dorky, I agree that it's

(02:12:43):
also like true that just this is kind of the
core of healing is healing and the fact that to
be a high end healer you're kind of expected to
do damage. I do think that's it would be good
if there was an alternative.

Speaker 2 (02:12:55):
Yeah, I would think so too, But.

Speaker 1 (02:12:58):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3 (02:12:59):
I think a line of like they just need to
make it so bad, like healers have to be doing
something at all times, right, because otherwise it's like, all right,
well you have to all these other roles that are
just constantly keeping up time and trying to Mexic globals,
and then you just have like another role that's half afk.

Speaker 1 (02:13:16):
Right, Because that's the problem is with healing is a
pretty binary, right, Like if you succeed at healing or not,
people either live or die, right, or like they have
to press offensives or not. As much, right, but like
for the most part, they live or die based on
if your good healer. And so if we make the
difference between a good healer and a great healer, that
people die for good healers and they don't for great healers. Like,
that's really tough. But what you want to have happen
is you want good healers and great healers people live

(02:13:38):
in both cases, and then the great healers are contributing
some or some DPS as well. Right, Yeah, that's like
I think that is healthier, but just maybe there's a
way to do it that feels more supportive and less
directly damaging. That's my take. Yeah, sorry, I kind of
came in the middle of the a sentence of yours there,
dorky A.

Speaker 2 (02:13:56):
Bad no no. Yeah, So what are you guys ranking it?
I would put them in the higher side of harmless
above harmonssist Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:14:07):
I think next to it is really is elegant. That's
that's nice.

Speaker 3 (02:14:11):
I'm gonna have to rank it lower, okay, just out
of out of principles. You know, this could be my
one time, so you know, maybe.

Speaker 2 (02:14:18):
I'll have to use it. You can sometimes I'm gonna
straight up and just put it in. I don't like you,
all right? Oh yeah no, fuck the fast I find
out to be annoying as a mythic plus focused creator.
I bet you see, I bet to you this is
your race world first guy. Yeah, like, it's just like
you were. They're always there and they're just extremely fucking annoying.

(02:14:42):
I respect that. Fucking respect that.

Speaker 1 (02:14:44):
Get them, all right.

Speaker 2 (02:14:46):
So next we have the fottom re roller. I believe
the exact connotation here is it's the person who roles
and has to play the new best class, but they're
not good at it. They're they're they're terrorizing the group finder,
but they're getting invited by running the right class. Is
this correct because it's multi classer? Is the version multi

(02:15:06):
classer is already on the list, and a bottom person
who does that well is just a multi classer, right,
that's your you're succeeding at that. This is the person
who either thinks they're that guy or does it in otherwise.
Uh yeah, yeah, this is the exact description. Tries to
play every class, is bad at all of them.

Speaker 1 (02:15:24):
Yeah, this person rolled og of ocre and terrorized the
group finder for you know, a year after Augmentation Evoker
came out. They yeah, they really are bad at everything,
but they do play. They're always playing something that should
get invites, and they're always dragging down the community perception
of whatever is currently good by you know, always playing it.

Speaker 2 (02:15:47):
Dude, that's so true. It's down. So why exactly are
they annoying?

Speaker 4 (02:15:53):
Like?

Speaker 2 (02:15:53):
What really makes them anoy is it because or here's
what I think makes them annoying? Well, Number one, when
you invite people for a group and wow, all you
can see is their score, and they may have gotten
that score because they get invited more often and through
just trial and error, they just have eventually timed those
keys and got that score, and you can't tell the
difference between like a good and a great one. And

(02:16:13):
then you end up just inviting the class you think
you're supposed to invite because they're op right, and then
they're just absolutely terrible players. Here's my argument for why
fottom rerollers in the negative connotation suck is if they
all knew they sucked and they just instead played their mains,
the group finder wouldn't be like the reason you play
the same comp every season, or it eventually gets to

(02:16:34):
that point is because every time you open up your
little group, find your thing, and you are the person
who can choose the group, you can choose the best
comp because they're all gonna be there because the list
is filled with fottom rerollers playing whatever thinks they're gonna
get the best invites from right, So this person didn't exist,
the person who wasn't that guy and knew it and
just instead played their main. Group finders wouldn't always have

(02:16:57):
the best comp in them, probably, and you would be more.
It'd be more. It's possible that the community would be
more willing to accept other things because you can't always
have the best thing, but you can because of these people.

Speaker 1 (02:17:07):
Yeah, and if you're if you are like a if
you don't want to reroll in a given season and
you just want to play your main and you see
people who are like much worse players than you, who
are completely inexperienced on a class getting invites because it
is you know, the metaspect this season, you develop a
hatred of that very easily, which, like.

Speaker 2 (02:17:23):
You would you would be better off timing that key
if you invited someone's main that's a much better player
than the dog should fottom player and you can't tell,
and people do it anyway. You know, I'm saying that
that's even though it's kind of like this is what
I think would happen if this was the case. I'm
kind of I'm asking a lot of goodwill here in
this argument, but I would just I just think if
this person didn't exist, everyone's happier.

Speaker 3 (02:17:45):
I think it's also because they don't they put in
a half assed effort. Oftentimes, when people think of foddom
ree rollers, they don't think of someone who like puts
in a lot of effort to actually play something good,
whereas like one Trick Pony is kind of opposite, right,
Like one Trick Pony is like kind of someone who
put in their time and effort to master this class,
and there's a lot more respect for that than someone

(02:18:05):
who just like, you know, half assed rerolls into something
that's OPI and just like all me and all them,
you just try to make this work and you just
run into a Dean Hunter vet just jumps into a
pack and doesn't understand how the class works whatsoever and
just dies instantly.

Speaker 1 (02:18:19):
Yeah. Yeah, man, it's tough because, like I think, in
a lot of these cases, the person would just get
a lot better if they didn't like a lot of times,
I think this is something that people do after they've
played Wow for like six months. They just sort of
turn into a bottom reroller after they first like reroll
and realize they're getting more invites and stuff and they're

(02:18:39):
not getting invites on their main, and then they sort
of keep doing it instead of actually getting good at
the fundamentals of the game, which I think for a
lot of people is easy as to do if you
are only playing one spac for a while. Like I
think most good players go through a one trick phase
before becoming good multi class RCT, and I think if
you try and do that switch too early, you're gonna

(02:19:00):
stunt your development.

Speaker 2 (02:19:01):
Does like a because like if you're on a main,
the best way I can describe this is like, Okay,
you're in a really stressful situation. You might be dying soon.
And also like you have to get an important kick
or a stop or something. When you're on your main.
Two of those three things you've done them enough to
where you don't even have to think about it. It just happens.
Whether you press the personal or the stop, you're going

(02:19:21):
to do that if you're the fottom reruller and it's
not your main, there's the extra thought of like, oh,
I'm gonna have to press a personal here, but then
it's something you're thinking about because you're not used to
the personal and you're like, oh I okay, yeah, I
have to press this button or like the specific stop
is different and it's like a stunt. You normally have
a knock up or something on your main and like
that's something where it's just like extra thoughts are happening,
and that just makes it way harder to play consistently
because instead of things being second nature, you're actually thinking

(02:19:42):
about how to do them because you're on something you're
less familiar with. You have to become like perfectly familiar
with one class in a while before you can start
transitioning that skill to other things. The only other thing
about this, though, is I don't know if these people
are bad, because they probably only did this because they
let's say they were they doing what I suggested, no
one be the bad bottom guy, just play your main,

(02:20:04):
but they probably felt like they had to be the
bad fottom guy because there may never got invited, right,
And so do these people have bad intentions or do
they really just kind of want to play the game,
And this is the only way that with currently the
group finer mythic plus, it's the only way you can
really play the game.

Speaker 3 (02:20:18):
I'll think you're right, like this is how a lot
of people play the game, though, I mean, look at
any Tearless video we make, It'll be by far of
the most popular content we'll put out all seasons. So
this is kind of just what people do nowadays. Like
this is a lot of players nowadays.

Speaker 1 (02:20:33):
And a lot of times, like you go from getting
hurt by the meta invite meta and then you go
to being part of the problem, right because like it's
better than not getting invites.

Speaker 2 (02:20:44):
So yeah, a lot simp Do you think we have
to put them down?

Speaker 1 (02:20:48):
I do think though, Yeah, like this is still this
person is still negatively impacting themselves and the people they
play with. I think it's worse than harmless. I'd be
happy with any of the tears id with like kind
of cringe or maybe even.

Speaker 2 (02:21:01):
I think kind of cringe just because I think the
game created them, they didn't create themselves. Yeah, damn, that's
so real.

Speaker 1 (02:21:08):
All right, up next is overall Oliver this is an
M plus er. That is the primary concern is the
overall damage. They are holding CDs for the ten mob
pat poll because they will get more overall out of
it than they would if they used it on this
five mob pole that's before it.

Speaker 2 (02:21:27):
Is this the rep palating clip? Yeah, yeah, okay, well
that this has to go in the bottom.

Speaker 1 (02:21:34):
It's the M plus version of the parse pars Peter.

Speaker 2 (02:21:38):
Well, then why is it so much worse than at
the bottom then, right, I guess it would be just
as bad you.

Speaker 1 (02:21:44):
Yeah, I think I don't think this is quite eternal damnation.
I think it is another like blow up or I
don't like you where.

Speaker 3 (02:21:50):
Yeah, it's another version of I'm not playing to win now,
I'm playing to look good, which I mean, like I
get it right, Like that's how some people prefer playing
the game, like they just have fun when we're doing
big damage.

Speaker 2 (02:22:01):
In fact, that's how I play a lot of times.

Speaker 3 (02:22:03):
But when you're in a group of players that are
actively trying to win, it can be extremely cringe behavior.

Speaker 1 (02:22:10):
Yeah, yeah, it's not again, because like optimizing your overall
is part of winning, right, So like doing that is
a skill that you want people to have but doing
that the other trying to.

Speaker 2 (02:22:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:22:22):
Yeah, it's like when you're holding cool downs on a
boss and then you're just gonna send it all on
a bunch of bloss.

Speaker 2 (02:22:26):
Right, yeah, have like zero impact.

Speaker 1 (02:22:29):
Yeah, it's it is I think very similar to Parspeter,
where it is you're doing something that good players know
how to do, and you're doing it when it doesn't
make sense to to the exclusion of the important things.

Speaker 2 (02:22:43):
So blow up maybe, yeah, I'm blow up here. The
eternal damnation is so much worse. Yeah then them? Yeah,
all right, what's the mechanic Michael.

Speaker 1 (02:22:53):
So I believe and front correct me if I'm I believe.
This is like the slightly negative version of this, where, uh,
this is somebody who is their justification for underperformance in
like damage, for instance, is always that they're doing mechanics, right,
and like they obviously it's important to do mechanics, and

(02:23:14):
obviously there are cases where doing mechanics is worth losing
a lot of damage for it, right, But this is
like the person who's doing half the damage of somebody
else playing their sames back and their entire justifications like yeah,
I'm a mechanics oriented player.

Speaker 2 (02:23:26):
Right, it's just displacing blame guy, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:23:28):
And you're displacing the blame for that they have performance there,
and it is a less important underperformance, right Like in
most in almost all cases of this game, giving up
a lot of damage for a little mechanics is usually
not a bad trade if it like it. It's a
little bit of a bad trade, but it's not catastrophic.
It's much better than the alternative, right yeah, but it's
still It's often the kind of case where like these
people will genuinely think that they are doing the best

(02:23:50):
they could be and they're not looking to improve further
because they don't think that their damage is like important, right,
and they think that doing fight mechanic is the only
important thing, not doing it while also pressing their damage buttons,
which is of course what you actually need to be
doing to do really well, right or to improve.

Speaker 2 (02:24:10):
Yeah, I would just put them in the same category
as the rest of the insecure people. The look at
my bodies, the kind of cringe, kind of cringe. Nothing
more to.

Speaker 1 (02:24:20):
It, okay, is it's too small text for me, frankqu.

Speaker 2 (02:24:26):
Theory crafter rest. So this is the reason why there's
any connotation it's not going to really make sense because
we haven't done the other one radar, but we have
separately ranked tank theory crafters, which we will talk about later.
This is the theory crafter that is like coming up
with the builds you're playing in the patch, specifically for
like non tank players, So maybe healers.

Speaker 1 (02:24:46):
I think healers should probably be excluded. Like healer theory
crafters are also pretty different than than DPS theory crafters
and a lot of.

Speaker 2 (02:24:53):
Yeah yeah, like so the thing with DPS the theory
crafters is like a lot of answers can be solved
with math a certain amount of mobs uh, and there
are just talents that objectively do more damage than others
that those things and you can have these people guide
you as to what the best thing are. I think
generally DEPS three crafters are not insufferable. They're like purely
information gatherers and they find this process really interesting. Where

(02:25:16):
that differs from Tank we'll talk about it later, is
that those those talents are much more practical and like
based on the situation, and those trees are not just
what does numerically the most. It's so much more nuanced
than that, And that's a completely different situation. I think.
I think like theory craft deps three crafters are like sick.
I think they're awesome. They're like purely helpful to the

(02:25:38):
entire community. If they didn't exist, everyone would be oh ooh. Counterpoint,
if no one knew anything about how good stuff was,
would it be really fun? That is a really good
point if to just like fuck around with your tree
and try to figure out what's best instead of just
like looking up what the theory crafters came up with.

(02:25:59):
But that's not really one hundred percent right about that.
That doesn't really is that the theory Craft's fault, you know?

Speaker 3 (02:26:05):
I like that, yeah, sort of, I mean yeah, like
at the same time as like yes, and though like
the game is definitely better off if it's just all right,
everyone just like comes up with their own things and
we just play whatever they think is cool.

Speaker 2 (02:26:16):
But at the same.

Speaker 3 (02:26:17):
Time, it's like, is it really though it goes along
with the competitive minds.

Speaker 1 (02:26:21):
Would we have, okay, of all the people currently playing
World of Warcraft if part of playing World of Warcraft
was like looking at and understanding the talent tree and
then creating a build and like testing it. I believe
that for you, dorky, that would be sick because you
already kind of do that, like that would be really fun.
But I think for most people it is a blessing
for them that they are able to opt out of
doing that and just copy a build. And I think

(02:26:43):
that it would be like prohibitive for a lot of
the current player base if if that wasn't true.

Speaker 2 (02:26:48):
Yeah, it's the same thing with like weird Diablo, Right,
it's like, like how many people those gas as in
those games?

Speaker 3 (02:26:55):
It's not as uh what's the word, like mid max
maybe because because you know, in those types of games
I was asking you going to use those games as
an example. In those games, there's a bunch of different builds.
There's obviously going to be a best build, but nobody
truly knows what the best builds are because if you're
not well.

Speaker 1 (02:27:10):
It's not a team game as well, so it matters
less if you're not playing the best build. Right, Like
I can go into a pie league and I can
be like, yeah, I'm going to play a bild that
clears thirty percent slower than the best one, but it
doesn't matter because I'm not griefing my friends, right, Whereas
if I go into a key and I'm playing a build,
that's thirty percent less damage than I could be.

Speaker 2 (02:27:26):
I'm grief for one. People don't know that your grief thing.
Don't grief.

Speaker 1 (02:27:28):
Yeah, but you would still learn, like you would find
out right, and there would be the people that actually
spend all the time, you know, and are good at it,
and then you know, that's exactly how we got to
where we are now. I don't know, Yeah, I think
I think these people are like w I think this
is these.

Speaker 3 (02:27:48):
Are We're definitely upfare some somewhere up there.

Speaker 1 (02:27:50):
There are certainly blind spots that even DPS theory crafters
can have. It's not as bad as the tank theory
crafter blind spots, but you know, if something does well
in a five minutes single target sim but not especially
well in the real world, it will be overrated by
all theory crafters.

Speaker 3 (02:28:07):
Yeah, I mean no, there was definitely a lot of errors.
Like I remember just last night, I was talking to
your guilty Seph. He was talking about, uh, what was
that trinket called the one from Claipez a stupid drinker?

Speaker 2 (02:28:21):
We have to jump through times oh transmitter.

Speaker 3 (02:28:24):
Yeah yeah, yeah, because like apparently like that like that drink,
it was super underrated until people actually.

Speaker 2 (02:28:29):
Knew, yeah, how good it played. It was.

Speaker 1 (02:28:32):
Yeah, for the first few weeks people didn't. It wasn't
like commonly known how good that was.

Speaker 3 (02:28:37):
Yeah, because the sims were just like playing completely wrong.
But I mean, yeah, like it was. There's definitely errors
all the time, but it's not exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:28:44):
Yeah, it's not. I mean, they're they are for the
most part providing I think an important service to people
playing their class. Like I think a hypothetical, Okay, imagine
there was a class that you could play that didn't
have good theory crafters versus one that did right, Like.

Speaker 2 (02:28:58):
That would suck, right, that would be bad. That gives
them a lot.

Speaker 1 (02:29:02):
Yeah, and I guess so Dorky's argument is like if
everybody was on that playing field, it could be more fun,
more like classic kind.

Speaker 2 (02:29:08):
Of maybe yeah, maybe they're great top of w that's fine,
hell yeah W three crafters.

Speaker 1 (02:29:13):
All right up next to the raidbots.

Speaker 2 (02:29:15):
Robot way, I remember talking about this. This is like
the person is this the person who wait, let me
find it? Do you know what it is top of
your head. No, I know, I think it's I think
this might be.

Speaker 1 (02:29:27):
The person that is very much beholden to the five
minute single target SIM.

Speaker 2 (02:29:31):
Yes, that's who I think it is. I'm just like
double checking. Yeah, yeah, slaves crafts. So this is like
the person who who shows.

Speaker 1 (02:29:37):
Up Okay, I know it. Yeah, it's like you do
you remember Infinite Stars and bfa, Yeah, that corruption that
was not really good in the real world but was
very good on SIMS. This is the person who like
firmly believed that Infinite Stars was turbobyss in all cases
and would wear it because it's what the SIMS up
was biss right.

Speaker 2 (02:29:55):
Okay, And I think it's also the person that, like,
going into every patch, their idea of what is going
to be meta is based off of completely inconsistent quality
levels five minutes, single target, no movement SIMS that some
website posts and they're like, this is going to be
meta now, and those things are SIMS were never meant
to compare classes against each other. Ever, they're they're of

(02:30:17):
different levels of quality. It's to find out like what
your best talents or trinkets are or something like that,
using like a rule set within your class. But those people,
you know, to be honest with you, I think they're
kind of harmless even though they're annoying, Like why does
it matter? People are are like like claiming things are

(02:30:39):
good because like no one knows shit. They're just like
saying stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:30:41):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:30:41):
They're more likely to just go off of a tier
list that someone makes before a patch, and most of
those people are hopefully like a little bit more informed
than like just looking at sims. So they're just speculators.

Speaker 3 (02:30:53):
It's like now when you're talking about a new season
of some show and they're making some like crazy speculations
based off of like some of them.

Speaker 1 (02:31:00):
Yeah, Like I'm starting to think there's something off about
that mister milkshake feller. What that's a severance joke that
in joke in my guild.

Speaker 2 (02:31:11):
I see.

Speaker 1 (02:31:12):
Yeah, the other end joke is that it seems like
the people on the inside don't know what's happening on
the outside.

Speaker 2 (02:31:19):
Okay, good bit.

Speaker 1 (02:31:20):
Yeah, uh, I think that this person is kind of cringe.
I gotta I gotta say it, like, Okay, I I
think it's a little bit. I don't.

Speaker 2 (02:31:30):
I find these people very annoying.

Speaker 1 (02:31:32):
Yeah, exactly, Like I think that if we have a
tear called kind of cringe and this person isn't in it.
When I think that, I think it's it is quite
cringe worthy.

Speaker 2 (02:31:40):
I don't know, Okay, I'm find with that. I just
like that's where I was leading. But then I was
thinking in my head, I'm like, these people cause anyone harm,
but they cause me harm because I have to read
what they type.

Speaker 1 (02:31:50):
Yeah, I mean it's tough because a lot of our
tears can simultaneously be true statements about the same person,
right where it's like, this person's harmless but also kind
of cringe.

Speaker 2 (02:31:56):
And also I don't think the average the average okay, okay,
a mole person another banger.

Speaker 1 (02:32:03):
Yeah, so dorky, can you clarify for us the difference
between mole people and civilians?

Speaker 2 (02:32:09):
Uh So.

Speaker 3 (02:32:10):
The way Grau described this also comes from graw Aka
p Akau my TVV.

Speaker 2 (02:32:15):
It is.

Speaker 3 (02:32:17):
It's someone who wants complete effortless rewards, like they want
to be able to do content that has like no
difficulty at all, Like they just want the rewards and
nothing else, Like they don't care about the challenge because
like you know, like it's different from a casual player
because casual players still want to be stimulated, right, Like
they still want something going on, but these players. It

(02:32:38):
all started from Delves, where Graul was like where do
these people even come from? Like who even enjoys this?
Like how do you enjoy something that has zero difficulty
or whatever?

Speaker 1 (02:32:47):
Is?

Speaker 3 (02:32:47):
It's like purely for rewards. That's how I've interpreted it.
It's probably changed multiple meanings since, but that was.

Speaker 2 (02:32:55):
Yeah, it started. Yeah, the reason they were ever called
mole people was because we just assumed they were this
action of people that no one's ever actually interacted with
and did not know exist. But just now that Delves exist,
they're just going to be there and they're like, this
is my content because we couldn't find out who Delves
were actually made for. Uh, the question is have we
unearthed this faction of people and if they do exist,

(02:33:19):
where do they go? You know?

Speaker 3 (02:33:23):
I mean, I do feel like there are a lot
of people who play emos who like only care about
verbal awards and don't necessarily care about the challenging content itself.

Speaker 1 (02:33:36):
So yeah, I mean I think change on this a bit.
I think a lot of people are are and don't
know how much they are motivated by rewards. Like I
think that a lot of the appeal of Classic Wow
is that a lot of the rewards were based off
of like time and knowledge rather than skill to get.

(02:33:58):
And I think that also, like you can just look
at any M plus season where like, you know, the
key level getting easier, for instance, this season was a
great thing. And the reason it's a great thing is
that it's it's an interinally scaling system, right, so it
doesn't actually change. You can play any key at the
same difficulty you want from last season, right, but the
key that you need to play to get any given
reward has gotten like two levels easier, right, And that

(02:34:21):
makes the system more rewarding, and that makes people like
it more, right, and that I think is hugely important
for this game. And I think it's short of like advertising,
where a lot of people think advertising doesn't work on them,
but like clearly it does. I think reward tuning is
another one of those things where it's like this is
vital to how the game is received, and in a
lot of cases, I think invisible to the subset of

(02:34:43):
the players. I mean, bringing it back to more.

Speaker 2 (02:34:45):
People, well, so they're not any less than harmless. They
don't hurt anybody. Yeah, thing.

Speaker 1 (02:34:52):
The people they hurt most is like people like Growl
that wanted delves to be hard, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:34:58):
Felling that they're not right, but like needs delves to
be hard, you know. Yeah, Like I feel like they're
just harmless.

Speaker 1 (02:35:03):
I like harmless as all love the moles.

Speaker 2 (02:35:06):
Yeah, right next to the silent killer.

Speaker 1 (02:35:09):
This is the person who is sick at the game
and never accuse their microphone. You know nothing about this person.
They could be anybody. They could be on the street
next to you, could go outside and that could be them.
You don't know what they look like, you don't know
what they sound like, you don't know how old they are.
All you know is that they log in at raid time,
they log in for keys they own, They do everything
that they're told to, they don't talk, and then they disappear.

Speaker 4 (02:35:33):
Goat.

Speaker 2 (02:35:34):
Yeah, absolute goat. Nothing else said, Yeah, okay, well small
maybe bottom side of goat. Because the opposite of this,
or not the opposite, but the improved version of a
silent goat is someone who's extremely smart, figures things out,
communicates constantly, and makes everything easier because communicating is objectively

(02:35:57):
work or objectively better than not communicating. So it can't
be at the top of goat, but I think they
qualify in the goat category. But there's a limited.

Speaker 1 (02:36:05):
Amount of space for the right, right, Yeah, but you
also can't have too many people that don't talk. In fact,
at a really high level you kind of can't have
anybody who doesn't talk. But at the medium high level,
like you could maybe have a few people in your
raid not talk and be fine, and then but as
you start getting more and more than you have started
having a problem where it's like this works if one

(02:36:26):
person doesn't talk and everybody plays around that, but if
too many do then as a bit of a problem.
So yeah, it's it's it's not perfect, but they are
definitely Goat's. Everybody that I've ever interacted with that fits
into this category i'd love playing with. So yeah, all right,
the class discord mod is up next. So differentiating this
from the discord demon, this person is one of the
like they're obviously they're higher up on the hierarchy in

(02:36:48):
the class discord.

Speaker 2 (02:36:48):
Right or they've been a class discord demon for long
enough and networked with the right people and joined enough
private channels with the admins or the mods to become
a mod themselves, and oh okay, so there's like two
there's that's one version is a class Discord demon that
has risen the ranks, and there's the other one, which
as they have always been a class Discord mod and

(02:37:11):
they were like a part of the rat race at
the beginning of the Discord scene when like basically Discord
came out and then everyone was mad dashing to be
the guy who owned the whatever Discord. There's been multiple mutinies,
like there's multiple Discords that exist for certain specs where
a new one has been made because they didn't like
the mods of the old one or something like that.

(02:37:32):
It's I think a person that strongly seeks power, at
least in the initial rise of Discord, that it was
overrun by people that just had to be in control. Generally,
I also think the mods and the leaders of these discords,
generally speaking, will create the culture that exists within a
certain thing. If you see a bunch of like really
bad actors, your leadership of a discord can shut that down.

(02:37:56):
And some of these discords you can see the vast
difference of that. If you guys are ever part of
multiple you'll see that some of them are extremely toxic
and and like just honestly, like bad people are involved
in these discords and they've they've they've thrived there, and
there are some where they're completely they're just informative. They're
good people. They're there to just spread information and learn

(02:38:16):
how to play made or something. You know, like there's that,
but then you know, so you can see the difference.
But man, the opposite of that is totally true in
class discords too, and I would say it airs on
the negative side.

Speaker 3 (02:38:27):
What do you guys say, SAMs one is a mixed bag.
You can have both. I mean, this is a cult
leader to the cultists of the class demons. And yeah,
it's like you said, you know, oftentimes you'll have super informative,
super well thought out posts from class discords, and oftentimes

(02:38:48):
you'll have a click of the most cringey. If you
ever go against their following you use, you suddenly become
the enemy. Like that type of class discord mod those
are the worst. So it varies from like w all
the way down to blow up. This one can be hard.

Speaker 2 (02:39:09):
I'd say the average is probably not w I would say,
I would say kind of cringe, but also like how
is class scord. Oh, I guess class discord demon is
below it because it's specifically referencing a demon, like, it's
not class discord mod demon. Right. The other one like
kind of had a negative connotation just from the beginning.

(02:39:30):
But I feel like what we just described it would
be like kind of cringe or I don't like you.

Speaker 1 (02:39:34):
Maybe I think I would be happy with either of those. Yeah, whatever,
you guys.

Speaker 2 (02:39:37):
Like, Oh I don't like you, class discord suck all right?
Helly am it all right?

Speaker 1 (02:39:41):
Up next to the classic andy, another term that means
seven hundred different things? What do you guys want to
mean by this?

Speaker 2 (02:39:48):
What are we?

Speaker 4 (02:39:49):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (02:39:49):
Did did Frank post like a specific meaning for this?
Because this can be so.

Speaker 4 (02:39:53):
The original meaning of this was just the like. It
is kind of just the broadest term of just the
guy who just plays classic like that's the the only
thing he plays. He does not fuck with the retail
at all. He just plays classic and loves classic.

Speaker 2 (02:40:06):
Okay, I mean that's great, Yeah, that's that's nothing wrong
with that at all. But the a lot of these
people are maybe just a very vocal amount of them
are also the like. Like, so a faction of person
that is the opposite of what I'm about to describe.
I'm not sure if it exists. So like the retail
player that plays retail and then goes into classic streams

(02:40:27):
and says like I fucking hate Classic, this game sucks
or whatever, this game is dead. Well, that's interesting because
I know there's a lot of Maybe it's just because
I'm a retail streamer, but there's a lot of Classic
people that feel the need to go into a retail
stream and say how much the game sucks and is dead,
which kind of falls in close to like another category
we've talked about already, but maybe like a nostalgia chase

(02:40:48):
or we kind of talked about it a little bit.
But then like it seems like retail people are like,
I just don't if you play retail not Classic, it
seems like you just don't think about Classic at all.
It's not like this thing you have to go slander.

Speaker 3 (02:41:00):
I mean, I think depends on what side you're coming from, right,
because like when Grau was playing Classic, he got a
lot of these people and he felt pretty bad about it.

Speaker 2 (02:41:07):
Like that's interesting. Do you think that's maybe because they
were people that liked his content for retail and they yeah, yeah,
disliking the game Classic. They were disliking that their streamer
was playing something that they couldn't relate to.

Speaker 3 (02:41:18):
Yeah, that's definitely a part of it too, because like
a lot of them do come in they're like, what
the fuck are you doing? Like why are you playing this? Ah,
you're washed up, You're so bad now that you're playing Classic.

Speaker 2 (02:41:25):
Et cetera.

Speaker 3 (02:41:26):
Like, he definitely got a lot of shit for it
at a time, and he always talks about how like
negative it's been.

Speaker 2 (02:41:32):
Okay, well, I mean that's not even super competitive. Like
basically we're talking about Classic Andy the general. I don't
think that's the average Classic Andy. Just the person, Like
the person who logs on and plays Classic is probably
the dude who just played Wow in two thousand and four,
hung around in a couple of discords the last couple
of years with some dudes he used to play Classic
Wow with and they released Classic and he was like, bro,
I'm so happy, this is my shit. Hell yeah, put

(02:41:55):
the Alliance flag back up and just and just started leveling.
You know, And that that person is extremely harmless and
is just and as a w I think like that
that that's just like they're having a fucking great time.
They're probably some of the happiest people in the world
when Classic was re released. You know, there's there's a
there's a version of this person that Herbo sucks, right,
But I don't think it's the average at all, because

(02:42:16):
there's millions of them.

Speaker 3 (02:42:17):
I also benefit retail too, because you know, like it's
just more wild subscribers.

Speaker 1 (02:42:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's great for us. It's you know, sort
of the same reason that the civilians and stuff are
so great, right, is like, and they're great on the
run Marias because they're having a good time. But also
even if you don't care for their their type of
the game, it's still just good for the game that
you know, people are are suffered too a different form of.

Speaker 2 (02:42:39):
It, okay, right, stylist, So this is the.

Speaker 1 (02:42:43):
Person who is all about transmogus, right, Like they are
collecting the transmog pieces that they like, but more importantly
than that, they are creating trans bogs and you know,
showing up every day in a different mogu. They you know,
most of the people we play with, this isn't the
primary archetype that they fall into. But I think even
among high end raiders and high end m plus ters.

(02:43:04):
You you will find people that this is like maybe
the third highest or fourth highest thing on their list
of Wold player types, and you know, they care about it.
There are people in my guild that are definitely like
mod people, and then there are a lot of people
who don't give a single bother about it at all.

Speaker 2 (02:43:22):
And these people are great. They just like the game
for a certain thing that they're not a specific uh like,
They're just they're just happy. And yeah, they're not necessarily
like the person who collects the trans bogs they although
that's certainly part of it. They just they just have style. Man,
they look sick every time you look at and they
have some crazy mom Multiple times you've inspected their character
and you're like, damn, they're looking good. That's them. W

(02:43:44):
W I don't I don't know. I like W. I
put in W somewhere in there, all right.

Speaker 1 (02:43:52):
Yeah, this is a phenomenon of like, so this can
mean a lot of different things, but I think of
it as like the people who there's sort of a
group of people on Twitter that are you know, see
themselves and the people they interact with as being you know, wow,
twit people. So there's definitely a lot of overlap here
with like collection focused gamers transmog focused gamers. But there's

(02:44:16):
also like a there could be a sort of you know,
toxic clickiness to the Wow twit space. There could be
like crazy posts that get put up on the you
know you get shared from Wow.

Speaker 2 (02:44:29):
Yeah, like one the other day, Oh the one.

Speaker 1 (02:44:32):
Yeah, there's a I don't know if that. I don't
know if if people, if most people who consider themselves
in Wow would claim the poster of that as one
of their own. I think they probably wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (02:44:40):
But yeah, yeah, it's okay. So so it's it's it's
gonna be down there. But do they provide entertainment, like
I know, at least drat Yes loves keeping up with
the Wow drama.

Speaker 1 (02:44:55):
I I love it. I love I love I mean
Twitter drama. I I love on its own front. But
Wow is that's that's the game I play.

Speaker 2 (02:45:05):
So where would you put it? Then?

Speaker 1 (02:45:07):
Uh? I put it up in W. In fact, I'm
gonna use my one time. I'm gonna put in W Dude.

Speaker 2 (02:45:14):
What the fuck.

Speaker 1 (02:45:16):
Oh my god, let's fucking go. Let's fucking go.

Speaker 2 (02:45:19):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:45:20):
Yeah, overlap with there's overlap with a lot of the
different casual archetypes that are in here.

Speaker 2 (02:45:26):
Does this include like the monster bird style? Like that shit?
Isn't that all kind of related?

Speaker 1 (02:45:32):
You know that that was a subject of discourse within
wow Twitter? Yeah, and I think the people who posted
that are are definitely part of wowd Twitter. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:45:40):
All right, great, okay, all right. You can't argue with
the one time it has to happen. It's it is
the rules, all right. This next one AotC required. This
is the person who is the group leader of a
of an AotC pug in the group finder and they
are saying requires AotC but they're like six out of
eight normal, Yeah, and this person is sucks, dude.

Speaker 1 (02:46:02):
They often also like their eye level is six forty
two and the group finder like they were sixtifty five
plus or whatever, and they're right like yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:46:11):
Terrible, terrible.

Speaker 3 (02:46:12):
I ain't you know one thing at least is at
least the at least you can guarantee if have a
group will be good.

Speaker 2 (02:46:21):
At the X. Yeah, but only because they are not.
They know they'd never get invited to a good group,
so they create their own fake good group that by
the way, if you've been in these groups, they are disasters.
They are Sometimes this person's like trying to raid lead
in in like the in like using raid warnings or something,
and they don't even know how the fight works. I
ran into two of these people on Anserrect doing some
undercover stuff. They like they would just like post how

(02:46:42):
they had no idea how the fight worked, and they
were like requiring ADC and everyone in there just kept
leaving and I just kept staying in to see how
long it would last. And that group went through like
sixty people before it died. It was crazy. They're bad, man.
These people gotta blow up bareh minimal, blow the fuck up.

Speaker 1 (02:47:01):
All right, Uh, we've got the anti add on andy here.

Speaker 2 (02:47:06):
Oh these people also suck. They have a point. This
one is based. No, No, there's so much more. They're
just pure players.

Speaker 3 (02:47:15):
They're just trying to, you know, get through the game.
Zero ad ons required.

Speaker 2 (02:47:20):
I mean that's respectable. I mean it would be great if
you could do everything you can do with add ons
in the game, right, that would be awesome. But I'm
trying to download a bunch of viruses. Yeah, yeah, or
as someone said in one of my undercover rates. That's
some Chinese shit. I don't understand. Bro. When someone asked
him if he had a week arm or something, it's like,
what the fuck? Yeah, So, like, all right, they have

(02:47:45):
a point. It'd be although here's the thing I think,
ad Okay, we're not going to do an entire add
ons discussion right now, right, but like, I feel like
add ons that mostly just like make someone's game better
for them, like a trans mog collector add on or
like ninety nine. If you're the anti add on andy,
that's like I don't like that. Raid bosses sometimes they
are centered around week wors Bro, I'm fucking there with you.

(02:48:06):
But the nuclear option of removing every add on just
to solve that is just so unbelievably not worth it
and would be a net negative for the game. That
it's just if you've ever really thought about it, or
if you currently I think a lot of anti add
on andy's also don't play the game anymore. I think
it's like this boogeyman of why they don't play the game.
But like if they removed add ons, there's just zero

(02:48:27):
chance for installing retail again, and they're just it's the
it's the their cause playing as, they'll always complaining about Wow. Guy, uh,
you know what I mean, but doesn't play the game.
They're the same person. But are there people who play
Wow and they're like, damn, I wish someone wouldn't have
to tell me to install an add on or a
week or to do this fight. I'd rather just like
log it and play. That's valid as fuck, right. I
would also.

Speaker 3 (02:48:45):
Argue that majority of BOMB players try to play with
minimal add ons possible.

Speaker 1 (02:48:49):
Yeah, yeah, And I think I applaud like Blizzard's work
to try and make add ons less mandatory, right, Like
I think that private eras was an experiment that came
with some some growing pain, but like they're they're trying
to do the right thing, which is to avoid making
fights that get you know, Spaceship UI add on solved.
And yeah, they're doing all this stuff with that it
mode where they keep adding in like the cool Down

(02:49:10):
Manager next patch, which is basically like, hey, people are
solving this with add ons. It's really good to have
an add on for this, but also we want you
to be able to play the game and do this
stuff without having to download add ons to it, and
that's great too, So Yeah, where do we put the
anti ad on?

Speaker 2 (02:49:26):
Andy?

Speaker 1 (02:49:26):
Though? I mean, I agree with you, this person is
very annoying.

Speaker 2 (02:49:29):
They're so fucking annoying. I don't I would put it in.
And I don't like you for sure. I mean the
reason it's not blow up is they have a point.
But yeah, they're they're usually missed the point by a lot.

Speaker 1 (02:49:40):
Okay, Yeah, I think, I like, what do you think?

Speaker 3 (02:49:45):
I I lean on a kind of cringe, but you
know I can go with that.

Speaker 2 (02:49:48):
Okay, right the decider, Yeah, I like, I don't like you. Okay,
all right?

Speaker 1 (02:49:53):
Speaking of a space ship, UIs the Spaceshift captain is
up next. This is the person who's got the They've
got four one hundred add ons covering their screen. They've
got two dB ms, one big wigs, weak eras. They've
got liquid week ors, they've got echo week wors, they've
got methodraate tools. They've got they are the infinity stones
of race world first gild add ons all rolling on

(02:50:14):
their screen.

Speaker 2 (02:50:16):
They've installed it.

Speaker 1 (02:50:17):
They don't look at any of them, but they've installed
all of them. Uh, they're the same piece of information
is displayed seven times on their UI and used zero
times by them during a fight.

Speaker 2 (02:50:26):
Uh, it is great, lots of sound effects to Yeah. Yeah,
as much as this is fun to talk about, it's
it's just simply harmless, like they are not hurting anybody by.
But it is fucking hilarious every now and then.

Speaker 1 (02:50:40):
Yeah, all right, I'm next to Dryni, which uh Ryni,
this is uh what what? What type of which side
of Dryi's personality causes to make way?

Speaker 2 (02:50:49):
I actually don't remember why we put this on here.

Speaker 1 (02:50:51):
I remember that.

Speaker 4 (02:50:54):
I also have no idea.

Speaker 2 (02:50:56):
Wait why did we put.

Speaker 4 (02:50:58):
I don't know, but we talked about it. I wrote
it down.

Speaker 2 (02:51:02):
Take damage.

Speaker 1 (02:51:05):
He stands in the fire to heal themselves for more healing.

Speaker 2 (02:51:08):
Yes, this is the healer that is not challenged enough
by the healing they're doing. This is the healer that
intentionally stands in fire to do more HPS. All right,
nickels in the bottom. I'm sorry. Dogs don't like it either, Yeah,
I mean that's an automatic. They don't like.

Speaker 1 (02:51:28):
No, they it's like you. They've learned from you, right.

Speaker 2 (02:51:30):
The scorning dry A. Yeah no, I mean, but like
if they're not dying, I mean, yeah, it's kind of bad.
It's not eternal. Damnation, there's RB g ars down there.
Mm hmm, it's it's just blow up. Drining needs to
blow up.

Speaker 1 (02:51:49):
Bron got to play the clip here in the section
of the hug denial. Oh god, and then and then
animate drining blowing up after Okay, all right, up next
to the chill GM. So this is just uh the
guy who's the leader of the guild and his chill.

Speaker 2 (02:52:11):
Uh is this person? Okay? So besides them just being
harmless or a w or a goat, are they are
they also the person who kind of like the gms
that don't really solve any problems because they want to
avoid confrontations. So the guild ends up being like there's
a lot of shit going on and people start talking
behind people's backs because it's not being addressed.

Speaker 4 (02:52:31):
I think this guy he fence, its insane, like he's
letting the people go crazy in the guild. That's not
his problem. He he just runs the guild. Man he's
been running.

Speaker 2 (02:52:40):
He's chill.

Speaker 4 (02:52:41):
He is not you know, we're just playing a game.

Speaker 2 (02:52:43):
Okay. I think this person goes right next to the
like the drill sergeant or wow. Yeah, I think this
person's down there because I think they're actually doing more
harm than they're doing good bye by being.

Speaker 1 (02:52:57):
Uh okay, So like this is I can see what
your argument is, Like this trying so hard to be
everybody's friend that they're not actually doing the important responsibilities
of like, you know, making but it's more fun than
the drill sergeant though. Yeah, my guess would be that
this person, on average, is better for a guild than
a drill sergeant to have.

Speaker 2 (02:53:15):
Yeah, you'd rather not. It's like, would you rather have
an asshole that's like making everyone feel like shit? Or
would you rather have someone that doesn't solve the problems
that they're supposed to do? So now everyone like dislikes
each other and talks behind each other's back because nothing
is addressed by this person or by the leadership. Like
they're both really bad.

Speaker 1 (02:53:30):
I think at their worst, the chill GM is like that.
But I don't think they have to be Like I
think that the chill GM is a category that also
includes a lot of genuinely harmless.

Speaker 2 (02:53:39):
Right, So it is it harm? Are they harmless? Does it?
Does it? Does the average of them end up being
harmless because they can potentially harm you?

Speaker 1 (02:53:47):
Yeah? No, like you said, I hadn't really sit that angle,
was that arguentory.

Speaker 2 (02:53:51):
They're kind of just useless, all right. They are basically
just not there. Basically is not a GM in the
guild for this description of a person. Basically not to
say there couldn't be a chill GM that is doing
all the jobs and stuff. That's not the average of
this person.

Speaker 1 (02:54:03):
Though, Okay, yeah, yeah, this is. It's definitely a more
negative version of this person than I was. What do
you think, right, No, I like harmless, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:54:12):
Dorky harmless? Yeah, no, cool? All right.

Speaker 1 (02:54:16):
The gambler this is the person who the brake timer
goes up, or sometimes even it doesn't, and they are
immediately doing a type one to enter the gamble roll
one to a thousand or to ten thousand or whatever.
Or they're death rolling people you have has a death
roll where you just you roll from a number and
then whatever you roll, the other person rolls. You keep
going back and forth until.

Speaker 2 (02:54:34):
Somebody hits one, something hits one, and then you pay the.

Speaker 1 (02:54:36):
Initial amount to the other person.

Speaker 2 (02:54:37):
This person's a huge w Yeah. Anytime you see that
shit posted in chat, you know, the raids a vibe
because because no one has ever done that when the
raid's in a bad mood, if you're going on a
break or like someone posts this shit like there's no
way that would happen. It's only when like you're having
a good time. The gambler. The gambler is a w
possible goat. I think W. I think W.

Speaker 1 (02:54:57):
Yeah, sometimes you do have to tell this person to
like go like, hey, man, knocking off, we're pulling in
twenty seconds. But yeah, usually it's just peer good. You
ever had any gambling drama in a guild where like
somebody can't pay up or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (02:55:11):
Uh? Yeah, Actually we had a gm uh one time
that like would do this all the time and he
would just use guild bank or to cover his losses.
Oh wow, and that was pretty tough.

Speaker 1 (02:55:23):
That is great, all right. Up next to the collector.
This is the person whether it's mounts or MoG's or chievos,
any of those things, they are they are playing wow
to collect all these things. Oftentimes it's the stuff from
the newest patch content, but also it's it's very often
just old you know stuff, right, They're they're gonna be
cited in old or for some reason or other. Collecting

(02:55:44):
something or other they're gonna be. That's like the way
that they are playing the game, what do you think,
dorky Mmmm.

Speaker 3 (02:55:52):
It can be kind of cringe at sometimes because you
know there's like the whole TCG stuff or m you know,
whenever they're trying to be like gatekeepy with what we're
trying to get, or like they might go about certain
parts of collection any wave that's like, you know, what's

(02:56:13):
the word it comes off as, Yeah, it just sometimes
comes off wrong. But at the same time, you know
they're just having a good time.

Speaker 4 (02:56:22):
So I feel like.

Speaker 2 (02:56:23):
That's like an extreme minority. I think these people are
mostly having a great time. They don't really affect anyone else.
The most of this is solo playing content. And I
also want to say that the collector as an archetype
of WOLD player is up there in conversations with the
most happy person playing Wow. So I would I would
put them near the top. I think I think the

(02:56:44):
collectors are great, they think. I don't think they negatively
affect anyone. Really, I think they're awesome overall. You're looking at.

Speaker 3 (02:56:53):
W yeah, because I'm looking at similar to like stylists.
It's kind of like in a similar boat m M.

Speaker 2 (02:57:01):
Yeah, I mean I'm in between w and GOAT. I'm
interested with Drato's thinks.

Speaker 1 (02:57:07):
Yeah, I think this is it's definitely like there's a
lot of overlap here with the stylist, with the civilian,
with you know, uh, those sorts of players where this
person definitely like I've never been Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:57:20):
Like every time you hear someone that's just proud about
the stuff they've done or in another game, it would
just be the people who like one like yeah games
and ship like they're just fucking up. They're just having
a good time playing games.

Speaker 1 (02:57:30):
You know, I'd be happy with GOAT.

Speaker 2 (02:57:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:57:34):
Yeah, that's because I think dorky. The set of people
that are like trying to gatekeep TCG mounts or you
know old PvP mounts or whatever old raid mounts are
Oftentimes that's not even the collectors doing that. Oftentimes it's
a it's a you know the other people, right, the
people that like got the mount the first tie, like
they got the the mount from the TCG fact or whatever,

(02:57:57):
and then they're just their gatekeeping it because they have it.

Speaker 2 (02:58:00):
Yeah, all right. Up next we have the Asmen Gold
DEI foot Soldier.

Speaker 1 (02:58:06):
This is just a direct from the Yard, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:58:09):
The Yard. The Yard used the Asmen gold de I
foot Soldier, and now was like, I think, what did
they they? I mean they put it in the bottom here,
but like I mean the they well they I think
something around the likes of like these people feel like
they lost something in any time a game doesn't have
like you know, pixelated triangle Laura Croft boobs from like

(02:58:32):
a thirty year old game, or they feel like they've
lost like breast size, or anytime a main character isn't
a white male, it's like I'm I've lost what I love,
you know. And they're just generally insufferable anywhere on the
Internet that you see them. And the reason I stole
that for this list, or we stole that is I
just feel like we have a closer interaction with these

(02:58:53):
people than most other gaming cap They're the Yard's thing
was like general gaming, you know, but like as Wow
people and streamers like these, these the Asthmin gol Dei
foot Soldiers hit close to home, you know, They're like
they're just they're here all the time.

Speaker 4 (02:59:06):
They did show.

Speaker 2 (02:59:07):
I don't know how much of them are Wold players though,
because I think they became much more militant around the
like Amber Heard and Johnny Depp trial.

Speaker 1 (02:59:13):
Yeah, also like a a formative time for these people.

Speaker 2 (02:59:19):
Yeah. Yeah, like those people, let's just say that they
regardless of the outcome of the Johnny Depp and Amber
Heard trial, they really wanted Amber Heard to be the
person that was like, regardless of what happened, they went
into it with that was what was going to be
the thing for them. Yeah, they're uh yeah, anytime you're
seeing them. So they're the people that are like the
at the top of new Twitter posts now they're just

(02:59:40):
typing some crazy shit. They're at the bottom of YouTube
reply sections, have terrible takes about most stuff and are mad?
Are mad all the time? I don't know, they're just
like have you ever had a good interaction with these people?
Are they? Probably fans are allout to mention this.

Speaker 1 (02:59:57):
I would bleep it.

Speaker 2 (02:59:59):
Uh yeah, yeah, that's I mean, it's one of those
things where one percent of the of them that are
aware of that situation are on his side. Yeah, but
they would have been no matter what I think, right
like it probably you could have a credible reason maybe
to be on that side, I suppose, But those people,
I don't think they needed any evidence.

Speaker 1 (03:00:21):
Yeah, they their mind is made up in cases like
that when they hear the initial details or not even
the details, but like the initial sentence, the first sentence.

Speaker 2 (03:00:30):
Yeah asthmagold di I foot soldier. Is it below Arby Gear?
I feel like they are a lower existence than Arby Gear, right.

Speaker 3 (03:00:37):
Yeah, not as well as bench podcasters.

Speaker 2 (03:00:39):
Not as bad as that, I guess. Yeah, Okay, I
like that all right.

Speaker 1 (03:00:44):
Up next is the E girl Hunter, which is a
uh this is the type of person that I would
say it's kind of like the worst side of the
e Edator, where it's like this person is constantly chasing
after like they're they're always cited in an M plus
group going after some new usual girl, and it's uh

(03:01:08):
oh yeah, they you know, they're playing. They're not e
dating or anything like that. They're just following this person around.
And then at some point there's like a cringe, uncomfortable
conversation that has to happen, and then they never play
together anymore, and they're this person's like flaming that person
for being really bad now and uh onto the next one.

(03:01:29):
And then that's super gross.

Speaker 3 (03:01:33):
I want to put it all over the bottom. But
you know, you kind of can't help but feel bad
for these people.

Speaker 2 (03:01:38):
You know, they're just kind of lonely, just kind of yeah, okay,
we don't have a lot of social experiences in high school,
so they're going through all of that. Now, do you
do feel bad? I think these people are very harmful.
They're they're like almost single handedly the reason that women
don't move up in the guild ladder like men do,
because they they try to find a guild that they're

(03:01:59):
come at least staying in and don't feel like they're
being preyed on by like five guys as soon as
they join a new guild, because there's usually like these
people are like sleeper cells. They're in a guild and
they haven't had a girl in their guild before, so
they don't know how they feel about this. And then
a girl gets presented to them. They're just in the
same voice calms and they just have no idea how
to control themselves. And they get that side and that
thing inside of them gets awoken, uh, and they're like,

(03:02:22):
I'm going this person is my wife, this random person
that you just very you know, uh, And that's not
the girl's.

Speaker 4 (03:02:29):
Fault at all.

Speaker 2 (03:02:30):
But then they they don't usually like jump guilds like
other people do because they don't want to go through
that every single time they join a guild. And this
is so fucking common, this happens. I have seen this
personally happen so many times. I'm sure you guys probably
have as well. So I think they have a pretty
negative interaction, h for sure in the game.

Speaker 1 (03:02:50):
Yeah, I'm happy for either of our bottom fiers, but.

Speaker 2 (03:02:54):
Man, like they're not. Man, it's not pretty bad. It's bad,
but like it they're they're they're just trying to find love.
They just don't know any better, you know, Like they're
just immature, like they they like, I guess it's.

Speaker 1 (03:03:07):
Not eternal damnation. It's not irredeemable. People can grow.

Speaker 2 (03:03:10):
They're definitely icky, They're oh they're fucking they're they're icky,
But they're like they're a couple of social interactions in
high school or like having a sister in general, like
just talking with someone of the opposite sex in their
childhood from not being this person, you know, and it's
like some of that is out of their control. I
guess it's like but basically what I'm saying is like

(03:03:30):
kind of I think they are negative. It's a really
bad interaction. But I think people end up usually grow grow,
hopefully grow out of this and it's yeah, you know,
it's tough when it's there, but it's like part of
it isn't their fall.

Speaker 1 (03:03:40):
I don't know, Yeah, okay, Like this behavior is very
bad for the game, especially for women playing the game,
for sure, But I guess some of this would be
solved by, you know, the people not being in the space,
but most of it is solved by the people changing
inside themselves, right, So that's why they're not in the
bottom tier. Whereas like with RB geers, those people should

(03:04:01):
just all never play the game ever again, right, and
they can't change the.

Speaker 2 (03:04:06):
Exactly they're inherently permanently tainted, right Yeah yeah, man, all right.
Up next, as the Tearless Tanner, this is somebody who
is all about the tier lists, which.

Speaker 1 (03:04:21):
Is not us. We're not particularly huge fans of teer
lists or anything. We don't use them for content every
week or so. This does not pay our bills or
anything by any stretch. But this is the person who
is following the tier list, right, Like they will invite
or not invite based off of what is S tier
in Dorky's tear list in any given season, and.

Speaker 2 (03:04:40):
They can't a new season until they know what the
best class is. And they're they're not going to choose
the class they want to play based on how differently
they all play. They're going to choose one that's an
S tier no matter what. Bare minimum. Yeah, these are
the people are interact with the most. Okay, but is
there a reason these people exist? Is is mythic plus
in a vacuum and the group finder such a massive

(03:05:03):
reason for why tierless tanners exist because they just want
to play the game. You know, they're like, it's very similar, Toller.
It's yeah, very similar to fodom Reroller, almost like identical. Actually,
I feel like you might, Yeah, we've already maybe even
had this guy.

Speaker 1 (03:05:18):
I guess. The downside of this is this, this person
is oftentimes I think, blamed for imposing the tier list
on others, right, Like they are inviting or not inviting
based off of it. It's not it's not even just
determining what they play, right, but like they are determining
what they play with based off of the tier list.

Speaker 2 (03:05:32):
So it's worse than so what I think it's worse
a fotom reroller but one yeah, maybe the same tier
but lower like to the right of fotom y roll ye,
putting kind of cringe all right, up next is you
pull it, you tank it? An iconic. So these people
are almost extinct compared to what they used to be. Like, man,
in twenty ten, if you went into a dungeon as

(03:05:53):
a hunter and started just like pulling mobs for the tank,
that person was going to stop moving and pressing their
buttons and start typing in the chat and they were
going to be like, bro, if you do that again,
I'm in charge here, Buddy, if you do that, I'm
the tank. If you do that again, or as as
it's called, you pull it, you tank it.

Speaker 4 (03:06:09):
Right.

Speaker 2 (03:06:10):
I have run into those people for sure in the past. Man,
I haven't seen on a really long time, but I
know they still exist. There's there's kind of cringe, right yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:06:21):
Yeah, I mean like back in the days, it would
probably be like a w because this was kind of
the culture.

Speaker 2 (03:06:27):
Were a tank, Oh they were, that was the majority opinion.

Speaker 4 (03:06:29):
They were.

Speaker 2 (03:06:30):
Like you'd hear people just be like, you know what,
you're right, you pull it, you tank it, you asshole? Yeah,
like quit fucking the group up. Yeah you're yeah, it's
a little cringe now.

Speaker 3 (03:06:39):
Yeah, it's limitally little crue now. I mean I do
feel like it definitely happens more and the more casual
you go, because like I do see this opinion. Sometimes
it's kind of like the pacifist version of tanks. Mm hmm,
Like how like pascifist are acoun just like all right.

Speaker 2 (03:06:52):
You know, we will.

Speaker 3 (03:06:53):
I don't want to have to do any healing. I
just want to be like, I don't want to have
to do any damage. I just want to heal. And
this is kind of like the let me do my tanking,
you know, I'm just trying to tank and not have
like things go poorly. They're a little bit tyrant. Like
is this the guy who feels like you're stepping into
his domain?

Speaker 2 (03:07:10):
Yeah, yeah for sure. Yeah, but like you can just
leave the group after he's not like in your guild forever.
I don't know, yeah, putting con cringe, I like it
all right. The contrarian This is the person who that
only plays things that are not in the meadow. This
is the fighting game low tier main equivalent. The person

(03:07:33):
just always means a shitty character and tries to pull
off some combo that's like infuriating to play against.

Speaker 1 (03:07:38):
They are playing you know, Serve Hunter every season except
for Shadowland season four. They're like, Nope, this is good
this season. I'm off it. I'm playing something else this season, right, Like, they.

Speaker 2 (03:07:49):
Not the one trick. The one trick would stick on
survival in that scenario. Yeah, this person takes pride in
the fact that their class sucks.

Speaker 1 (03:07:57):
Yeah, they're playing it because they want to be different,
right into an expression of their uniqueness, of their difference.
So in a lot of cases, they're trying to make
something bad work, and that's a fun thing for them,
but I think it's worst. It's also a case of
somebody who likes being a big fish in a small
pond and actively avoids ever being.

Speaker 2 (03:08:16):
Thrown a bigger pond. That's a good discription. How many
people like this do you think even exist? Because I
feel like that, like, for example, not too many. If
if you were to combine this and the one trick
into a category, I bet ninety eight percent of people
are one tricks and two percent are like, yeah, I'm
a one trick, but if my class ever happens to
be good I'll play something else like it just sounds
so weird.

Speaker 1 (03:08:36):
Yeah it is. I think largely this is just the
one trick that happens to be playing a bad spec
ends up sort of being shoehorned into this sort of vibe.
But I do think there are some people, there are
at least some one tricks that really take pride in
making their bad one trick good, even if they'll still
play it in the seasons or it's good.

Speaker 2 (03:08:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:08:58):
I mean, we'll say this was partial thrown on there
because I played with a guy just like this.

Speaker 2 (03:09:03):
Where would you rank.

Speaker 4 (03:09:06):
I? So I I'd like him, but I also don't
like him, you know, because he would he would tell
us about his class and how is the worst class
ever after having intentionally picked it, and then when it
finally got kind of good and started doing damage, he'd
be like, well they ruined this back. I'm like, brother,
what what are we looking for here?

Speaker 2 (03:09:24):
Like?

Speaker 4 (03:09:24):
What are we going for? So for that reason I
would throw him in I don't like you. But at
the same time, there's such a big part of him
that's a w and it's really twisting my my heart
because it's so sick to just only play bad and
then complain anyways, sure, I have never.

Speaker 2 (03:09:39):
Met this causing of yourself.

Speaker 4 (03:09:41):
All the time, I think I'm throwing him and I
don't like you because uh, all right.

Speaker 2 (03:09:47):
All right, all right, beautiful, all right, tank theory crafters.
So almost everyone I know that has had an interaction
with these people is negative. They like theory crafting in general,
especially for DPS, is able to be solved with math,
and I think tank theory crafting as far as like

(03:10:07):
what the best talents to play in a given situation
in specific dungeon on a specific grade fight is something
that is so specific to those actual fights, and it's
actually one of the few examples. I think Tanking is
one of the examples of the talent trees being a
success because there are actual interesting choices in all of them,
in which in DPS there often isn't because it's just
which one does the robot says does the most damage.

(03:10:28):
Tanking is not like that. I think a lot of
times tank theory crafters, in my experience, have rejected practicality
and are kind of unwilling to listen to people that
have practical experience on something that requires practical experience to
make the best decision for how many times as a
tank have you like done a dungeon with a certain
talent set up, really thought about it and then like
ended up swapping a few things because it fits that
specific thing better. Or like bear a couple of seasons

(03:10:50):
ago where you had like big dam build, you had
way tank your build. There were dungeons where you did
both right venees deeven hunter there that you could take
chains or not chains, DPS loss to take it DPS
increased for the group to take it, right, but a
loss for yourself personally. It's not to mention the consistency gain,
which you are largely responsible responsible for also as a

(03:11:12):
tank right, but like a tank theory craft would be
the first person to tell you that you can't take
that because it does loss damage, which is that was.

Speaker 1 (03:11:17):
Literally true, dude, that entire season you could link the
guy just said don't run sigil chance, it's bad.

Speaker 2 (03:11:23):
Which is just terrible advice. It's objectively bad advice. And
that is the like average tank theory crafter or interaction
you will have is someone making some dumbass argument like that, Yeah,
but usually you're.

Speaker 3 (03:11:33):
On the side of damage. And it was extremely detrimental.
I had so many people who would come in so
like this was especially bad during season one of Dragonfly
when prop Outen was the best tank, and a lot
of the fodom rerolling prop Pudens they just like automatically
expected too sentinel, right or not sentinel. Yeah, so you

(03:11:56):
just have like all these propats that were terrorizing LFG
playing like high damage builds or like dem Hunters without
cheat deaf. So like, I mean, I ran into a
lot of these dem Hunters in my pub groups this season,
and without a fail, every single one of these dem
Hunters died in my keys. Like I'm just playing on
Holy Dcare of Bloomkin whatever, and I'm just like trying
to get like weakly than whatever, and they have died

(03:12:18):
every single time, and they could have lived they had
a cheat deaf. But that's not what is recommended from
the theoy crafters. But I will say, like the theory
crafters have definitely gone a little bit better. They Yeah,
they start to understand that there is a component to
tanking that you know, requires like utility or support or

(03:12:39):
I mean, I'm sure if they're just like sick and
tired of hearing questions from just random people who are like, oh,
why is a x y Z tank playing this talent?
You guys are recommending the complete opposite, and you're probably
just like completely sick of direm So if they're just
giving the option of if you want to build a
more tanky build, see overall, I feel like they're pretty damaging.

Speaker 2 (03:13:03):
I actually think the opposite of theory Crafter for DPS,
you could go with what they do and then make
minor changes after you see them. I think every single
player would be better off taking like the Blizzard default build,
or like creating whatever they think is the best, which
as a tank is probably just the tankiest things possible,
and then realizing you're unkillable and then moving those things

(03:13:23):
off rather than taking the other way around. That might
be hyperbole, but it seems somewhat correct, and I think
it's pretty damaging. I don't know where it went wrong,
probably because, like, as a tank, I'm like trying to
figure out why these people started to exist, Like this
is it, because like logs exist for DPS and that's everything,
and like those players are naturally going to exist as

(03:13:44):
tanks as well, and then just somewhere along the line,
the people in charge or the people with power in
those discords became the people that you know, if you're
trying to get better in farm, you can try to
push yourself to what can you do? As farm goes on,
it's easier and easier to live, you get more gears
of tank, and usually things get nerve and do less
damage to you. So like, what can you do to
push yourself? I guess do more damage, So I guess
it just becomes damage focused and they kind of miss

(03:14:05):
the plot, you know, they miss the point of what
they're doing, or they're maybe not doing hard enough content, right.

Speaker 1 (03:14:10):
I think that's the big thing is that, like the
if you're a DPS player that's not doing hard enough content,
like you're not doing the really hard content, you can
still be a good theory crafter because you can the
process are the same. Right, Doing the most possible damage
on Heroic one arm bandit is very similar to doing
the most possible damage on Mythic one arm bandit, right,
Like it's it is pretty much the same texture, right, Like,
obviously there's minor differences, but it's pretty much the same idea.

(03:14:30):
Whereas with tanking that's not at all true, Right, Like
tanking a heroic boss usually it's like, okay, be full
health the whole time and you're fine, right.

Speaker 2 (03:14:38):
And in that scenario, the best thing to mean for
you to do is to do more damage, right exactly.

Speaker 1 (03:14:42):
It's you know, if you are telling a tank what
to do for heroic one arm bandit it is play
all the damage talents and then press the defensive on
the big hit if you want, but you probably don't
even need to, right, Whereas on mythic it's like, okay,
you need enough defensives to survive every single one of these,
Like how are you going to plan all this out?
How are you going to make it so you don't
need to thrust defensive when you're actively tanking but not

(03:15:03):
having one of these go on you?

Speaker 2 (03:15:04):
Right?

Speaker 1 (03:15:05):
Like you? This is the defensive trade off here. This
is important and it's just not important on you know,
heroic difficulty once your geared no normal difficulty at all ever.

Speaker 3 (03:15:14):
Okay, well, just thinking for the longest time hasn't been
a challenging at all. Right, if you look that before
and plus came out right like that was like when
it was a big thing. And also damage is tangible
so that's like something they can then actually go based
off of. But like you can't really quantify how good
a cheat death is or how this existed.

Speaker 2 (03:15:31):
Before Mythic I remember, like we were playing so so
everyone here agrees Ben's like sick of the game. Right, So,
like me and Ben were tanking and we both wore
cheat death drinkets in a raid because it was absolutely
the best thing to do. This is kind of common now,
but this is like a really old raid before like
the Mythic Plus tanking ideology existed, and they were calling
Ben and I bat They were like these cupulators are

(03:15:53):
but like, hey, hey, class discord mod, why why are
these tanks playing cheap death drinks? Oh, it's because they're bad.
They just just just handwaving yet Ben, Ben's terrible, right,
but that's why. But but you know, they're saying, we're
a damage drink it. But like that was absolutely not
the best thing to do for world first progression. But
that was before like Mythic Plus became a big thing.

Speaker 3 (03:16:12):
So well, but even then, like that was only for
race war first, right, Like for most other players in
the game, it was pretty easy to tank.

Speaker 2 (03:16:20):
Exactly, But you're not doing the hardest content, so and
you're giving opinions on it. That's so basically what I'm
saying is these people boil down to basically the posts
on our slash Competitive Slash Wow or like Competitive Wow.
They are they are someone who is who is confidently
making assertions and people are following their advice when they
do not have the experience to make those assertions. That

(03:16:40):
is what the tank theory crafter in its worst case is,
and often we have dealt with.

Speaker 4 (03:16:45):
Now.

Speaker 2 (03:16:46):
I don't want to say this is all. There could
be great ones, you know, but but holy shit, do
these people definitely exist to the other way.

Speaker 1 (03:16:52):
So time to blow up.

Speaker 2 (03:16:55):
I think I'm good with blow up even Yeah, realistically
they're probably not more damaging than like the our Competitive
Wow posts, but we are all tanks and have doubled
these people, so they're significantly more annoying to us specifically.

Speaker 3 (03:17:09):
Yeah, I also don't feel as like strongly against the nowadays.
But for the longest time, that's stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:17:14):
Bro, you were actually going to blow up. We're talking
about venge just demon Hunter at all? Last expansion?

Speaker 1 (03:17:18):
Yeah, all right, up Next is Ahille Henry. This is
somebody who that play the game and the way that
they do damage is they press the button that Achilley
tells them to at the given spot absolutely harmless. Yeah, like,
is this the best way to become good at the game? Nope, no,
if you are trying, Yeah, but if in almost all

(03:17:39):
cases it you know, if if that's not you, perfect
yous aequille, you even have a great time and boggers
very fun yep.

Speaker 2 (03:17:49):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (03:17:50):
The auditor so this is the person who pops open
the details death log and is like looking at every
instance and figure out exactly how you die. And they're
looking at like did you did you Helpstone there?

Speaker 2 (03:18:03):
Right?

Speaker 1 (03:18:04):
Like did you press the defensive?

Speaker 2 (03:18:06):
So they're coming from a place of wanting to help
you get better? Maybe? But are is it? Is that
not true? Actually? And they're really just like being annoying. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:18:17):
Auditing is like this is something that you want to
do at the very highest level of play.

Speaker 4 (03:18:21):
But yeah, at the highest level of play.

Speaker 2 (03:18:24):
People at the highest level, I know, I know. Uh.

Speaker 3 (03:18:30):
A certain name that can't be named is what was
known for vis. I remember that they always talked about
how like anytime someone died, he would always like points
out their mistakes and say how like, oh, like you know,
like next time, you just have to do this instead.
It is like something that gets mentioned.

Speaker 4 (03:18:47):
Even I don't.

Speaker 2 (03:18:49):
Consider that an auditor. That's just like something that's I feel, Okay,
this could be wrong, but I feel like that's something
that's just true of good players when they're going to
do that to try to help you get better. But
I feel like when you're referring to this person, you're
referring to the person that's really not that good and
they probably would make that same mistake, but they just
want to like point out that you did something wrong. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:19:07):
Yeah, if you're talking about like a player that's not
at a high level, they definitely are on the side
of just trying to blame people.

Speaker 2 (03:19:15):
Is it just kind of cringe? Maybe? Yeah, it's nothing
more deep than that.

Speaker 1 (03:19:18):
Maybe I think, so.

Speaker 2 (03:19:22):
What do you think doork is?

Speaker 1 (03:19:23):
That?

Speaker 2 (03:19:23):
Does that work? Yeah? I think so? Okay, the cook?
The fuck is the cook?

Speaker 4 (03:19:29):
This is the guy was always got like the new route.
This is the I think when we were coming up
with this, we said, this was the evade. This was
the guy who was doing some shit. He was maybe
like he had a good new build, he had a
good new route. He had a good new strap for
a reclear due to a bossner for something. That's this guy.

(03:19:51):
He's in the kitchen, he's cooking.

Speaker 2 (03:19:53):
Okay, but it's almost like the cook in parenthesis. Good right,
because there's a version of.

Speaker 4 (03:19:58):
This, there is the over cooked on here.

Speaker 2 (03:20:00):
Oh okay, don we know what it took about?

Speaker 4 (03:20:01):
This is goat?

Speaker 2 (03:20:03):
Yeah right, go and you one. And these are the
best people to be in your group by far. Yeah.
They're sick as a way up there. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:20:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:20:10):
Having at least one of these in a guild is
like such a buff compared to not having any somebody
who can think for themselves, right, and otherwise you're just
completely enslaved to the video of somebody else doing everything.

Speaker 2 (03:20:22):
Yeah, all right, so we have the YouTube here, so
that could qualify as all of us potentially, which is
just obviously goat. But what what is the what is
this actually wrong?

Speaker 1 (03:20:36):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (03:20:36):
Draydon has told me to put on YouTuber and streamer,
So I put on YouTuber and streamer.

Speaker 1 (03:20:40):
All right, well those are us, Okay, I think those
I don't know where or like?

Speaker 2 (03:20:46):
Okay, so some Wow YouTubers. I don't know if this
is specific to Wow or it's probably like a Wow
in League thing because the game has just been out
for twenty years. But when people do the like really
negative videos because they get a lot more attention. I
don't know if that's like a chicken before the egg thing,
if it's like people are making more of those videos

(03:21:07):
because people are really negative, or if people are making
videos that way because that is what gets them the
most views. Right, I don't know if it's organic or not,
but I find that to be kind of annoying. But
also there's just so many wholesome Wow YouTubers that just
like make like lower content. It far outweigzed for sure.

Speaker 3 (03:21:24):
Yeah, I don't feel like there are as many negative
YouTubers nowadays for whole specifically just because like a lot
of them have already like gone from Wow.

Speaker 2 (03:21:32):
I mean ninety percent of it was when Asmin Gold
still cared about Wow and someone would ask him.

Speaker 3 (03:21:36):
About something and he would just rarely see that. Nowadays, yeah,
they would just get the most nowadays. It's mostly just
like if Titles makes like a criticism of like all
mythic plus like this needs to go, or like vis
Epics thinks and there about well.

Speaker 2 (03:21:49):
He's already yeah, is it. Do we just put YouTuber
goat because that's us? Yeah, yeah as well easy streamers,
but yeah, we can just throw stream in there too.

Speaker 1 (03:22:02):
All right, we've got the unaware uncle. This is uh,
somebody who just doesn't know what's going on, right kind
of old?

Speaker 4 (03:22:10):
Yep, so cool, what's going on, doesn't follow the meta,
no real idea of anything.

Speaker 2 (03:22:15):
So I remember we talked about this yesterday. Here was
the example we gave, or I gave. This is the
person where everyone talked about augmentation evocre because of what
you were seeing on the PTR for months. You were like,
this is this crazy thing, let's talk about it. Everyone's
heard about this, right, Holy fuck, there's a support class.
And then like the and then it came out and
there was this massive post about it. It was all

(03:22:37):
the talk in the world. And then there was all
these screenshots of the first week of augmentation of group
leaders in low level mythic plus kicking augivocres and flaming
them in party chat because they thought they were devovokres
that were doing zero damage because they just didn't know
a new spec got released. So those are people that
are like just completely cut off from the information economy

(03:22:58):
in Wow and the a uh that they're that I
think was the example. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 1 (03:23:08):
Hell yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:23:09):
I mean they're not necessarily they're not really negative. I
would say they're probably kind of just doing that. I
mean it was negative to the ago okres for that
week funny, but yeah, which is kind of funny. I
don't know, that's it. They're probably harmless, man, They're just
they're just.

Speaker 3 (03:23:24):
I put them w like, they're just the wild players
who are just like having a good time and be
like literally don't know anything else my.

Speaker 2 (03:23:30):
Level of happiness probably yeah, unaware uncle, okay, w all right,
summon me. This is the person that, no matter what,
even if they have all the dungeon portals and they
know exactly how to get to the raid, you summon
to it. You summon them to it every time.

Speaker 4 (03:23:43):
Always on trash. Yeah, always, I'm a one time this guy.
He's all right, this is you? I know, this is you?

Speaker 2 (03:23:56):
Do did you already one time? I don't ever know
you one times? No one else has done it.

Speaker 1 (03:24:00):
No I did I have one time watch wit and
Day and say.

Speaker 2 (03:24:03):
Okay, it's just mine.

Speaker 1 (03:24:03):
Okay, yeah, you you have the last one.

Speaker 2 (03:24:06):
Time I have the golden one time here. Yeah, see
what I need to Okay, is addict Arnold an ap addict?

Speaker 4 (03:24:12):
Yes? Yeah, he is commonly chasing the dopamine hood of
character progression.

Speaker 2 (03:24:19):
Okay, it's the first patch, first week of the patch. Oh,
there's the grinding dragon flight there, they're farm in dirt,
they're killed.

Speaker 1 (03:24:27):
In superre there. Like, man, you got anything I can do?

Speaker 2 (03:24:30):
But Arnold a.

Speaker 1 (03:24:31):
Little bit more? Please? Is there any AP I could find?
Is it one island I could expedition to?

Speaker 2 (03:24:37):
This is basically a THHD.

Speaker 1 (03:24:39):
Yeah, I mean like, oh, there's a twenty hour grind
you can do to get plus zero point two out
of level on your bracers.

Speaker 2 (03:24:45):
And they're like, I'm in here, we go. I know,
it's not even a question. It's like, yeah, we start, and.

Speaker 1 (03:24:50):
In fact, they're like excited about it. They are having
a better time and a patch where there is one
of those things than when there isn't.

Speaker 2 (03:24:54):
Oh absolutely, Okay. The question is do they cause harm?

Speaker 3 (03:24:58):
They kind of do when it's uh, when they're very
vocal about like, you know, needing these types of things
to do.

Speaker 1 (03:25:08):
Yeah, I guess that the most harm they cause is
that they advocate for the game being the way they'd
want it to be, which is something that that's just him.

Speaker 2 (03:25:17):
Speaking their mind.

Speaker 1 (03:25:18):
But yeah, yeah, you know you would not like the
game to be like that.

Speaker 2 (03:25:26):
Okay, it's hard to say. Are they just there? Yeah? Almost?

Speaker 4 (03:25:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:25:35):
All right? Does I solemnly swear this.

Speaker 4 (03:25:38):
Is the md I and TGP catch.

Speaker 2 (03:25:42):
This is door key bros. The I solemnly swear is
the m b I or tgper telling you that they'll
never do this again, and then within forty eight hours
this is a true story. They are on another NB
I in TGP.

Speaker 4 (03:25:58):
This is.

Speaker 2 (03:26:02):
Dude. I mean, he can put it. He wants bro,
He's the only person that this is him. This is
Dorky doork. He's done this multiple times. Where's it go, dork?
Where are you buddy? I mean it's got to be
the goat, right, I would defer to you.

Speaker 4 (03:26:15):
You're the only one.

Speaker 2 (03:26:16):
You know, you're st Yeah, you're just that sold on it,
all right? Fuck it? All right? Who's a meta Matthew?

Speaker 4 (03:26:24):
Meta Matthew is the guy who does the classic route
every time, like the newest route that he's watched on
the dorky stream. He's constantly looking at every pole he is.
He's the guy who only invites based off the Tearless
as well. Like it's kind of the same guy, kay,
but yeah, he he's completely in tune with the meta
and that's just him.

Speaker 1 (03:26:45):
Like he'll do the and then he'll like name somebody
and be like this person's route, right, like let's say
you rout or whatever.

Speaker 4 (03:26:53):
Yeah, he's assume everybody else knows what you're talking about either.

Speaker 1 (03:26:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:26:56):
If there's a new post fourteen months ago the.

Speaker 1 (03:26:58):
Competitive Waves, I've read it that, like, so this person.

Speaker 3 (03:27:01):
Is the one who keeps up, Yeah, watches all of
the streams, watches the latest titles videos and yeah, incredibly.

Speaker 2 (03:27:10):
So it's like a complete opposite of I don't interact
with this person a lot. I don't actually have an
opinion on them at all. Well, I mean, I feel
like there's a lot of our chatters, like, you know,
people who.

Speaker 1 (03:27:19):
Just I think trying to be this person involved being
in our chats a lot.

Speaker 2 (03:27:23):
Yeah. Wait, is this the person who is like a
raider and some random guild and they tell the raid
leader that they shouldn't do this thing they want to
try because Max doesn't do it. Yeah, Okay, well that
person is definitely the worst. That version is bad.

Speaker 3 (03:27:38):
I mean I've seen Dorky Duvis in his route.

Speaker 2 (03:27:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:27:42):
Yeah, that's if if a poll goes wrong, they'll justify
it by being like I saw I saw Dorky do
this or whatever. So sometimes they could do like accidentally
to two handfuls.

Speaker 2 (03:27:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:27:53):
On one hand, I'd like these people because you know, yeah,
I feel in two. At the same time, they can
be kind of cringe.

Speaker 1 (03:28:03):
I think kind of cringe is appropriate for this.

Speaker 2 (03:28:04):
Yeah, okay, cool, all.

Speaker 1 (03:28:08):
Right, I quit is here.

Speaker 2 (03:28:10):
Now.

Speaker 1 (03:28:10):
This is somebody who doesn't actually quit. But every season
they say they quit, but they don't actually quit. It's
not the same as the Wow, like the NBIOTGP thing
is like the Wow right, Like every season they're quitting wow,
and then every new season they're back playing Wow again.

Speaker 2 (03:28:23):
Yeah, they have to announce the departure. Two are they
do they cause anyone harm? They're just like tricking themselves.
You know, they don't know any better, but like everyone
else is like, yeah, sure you're gonna quit, man, and
then they're back and you know they're gonna be back,
so it doesn't matter. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:28:36):
They also tend to be on the side of like, oh,
this game stinks right now, like I'm gonna quit until
they fix this or that.

Speaker 2 (03:28:42):
But then they're it's like the person who leaves a
negative review on a on a Steam game and then
it's like has played for nine thousand hours. Yeah, but
they like so they clearly love the game, but they're
just like, can't again. They're just like harmless though. They're
just like the only person that doesn't understand what's going
on with them is themselves, right, so like who they're
not harming anyone else who can? That's fair, all right?

Speaker 1 (03:29:02):
Up next is ratio Randall. Now, this is somebody who
is only.

Speaker 2 (03:29:05):
One time they go in Eternal Damnation it is two.

Speaker 1 (03:29:09):
Four or sorry, it's a it's two two six or
two three nine or like two four to twelve or whatever,
and they only ever will play that.

Speaker 2 (03:29:16):
And they're yep, if you're making a group, uh, if
you're making a group, they are they are.

Speaker 1 (03:29:22):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (03:29:22):
They can have literally a full byss plus ten eye
levels on anyone else in the Raid Race World First Raider,
and it will it will change their ratio to not
be two three nine, but instead it would be two
three ten or two four ten. But it will increase
the likelihood of killing the boss significantly, and they'll just
be like, it's the ratio, bro, I can't I can't

(03:29:43):
go higher than this. Yeah, they belong at the very bottom.
That is one of the most classically misunderstood that the
ratio battle it matters at all in pugs and raid.
Why does that even exist?

Speaker 1 (03:29:54):
Well, like, you don't want to overheel or underheel, right, so,
because everybody's been in a raid where you don't have
an you have too many.

Speaker 2 (03:30:01):
Yeah, sometimes there's like things on certain bosses where like
if you have nineteen a seat of twenty people, one
less mechanics spawns and it's easy. Those are scenarios where
you're just literally choosing an easier version of the boss
to clear, which is logical, but almost all the time
it doesn't matter and has no effect, and you just
don't invite people that you should.

Speaker 1 (03:30:17):
Yeah, heroic Muggsy this year the Summer und was much
easier on twenty nine and thirty. Yeah, it's because it
gave way you one less crawler minds every spawn.

Speaker 2 (03:30:26):
It's crazy. The magic number Silvanas.

Speaker 1 (03:30:29):
I think was the big example.

Speaker 2 (03:30:29):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (03:30:30):
Silvana's at nineteen was so much easier than at a
higher number.

Speaker 4 (03:30:34):
Okay, is lut goblin the this is the demon he is.
He's okay, he will blow up a raid night if
you know he doesn't get the piece of loop. But
it's also the guy who will have all the creative
sims for it. He will. He will send the six
target two minute sim because it's the better item for him.

(03:30:55):
He will write a ten paragraph DM to every officer
justifying why he should have this item over somebody else.
He just fucking cares about loots so deeply, and it
is the most important thing the game.

Speaker 2 (03:31:07):
So is it the person where you link an item
and you're asking everyone in the raid to post whether
it's this or not, and instead they post multiple paragraphs
about why it should go to them.

Speaker 3 (03:31:17):
Yes, yeah, people would say this is saying in your guild.

Speaker 2 (03:31:21):
This this is Yeah, Yeah, I used to. I've also
read it with another moon can or I guess saying
isn't a moon can anymore? That that is? That was
kind of like that way back in the day in duality.
Poor Star was his name. Yeah, he shout out the paragraphs.
He would just post hell of paragraphs. Maybe maybe almost

(03:31:42):
every one of you raids with someone or has ready
with someone where you're like, yeah, they they want that
ship for sure, this one's really common for sure? Or
where does it go? I mean, do they cause harm?

Speaker 1 (03:31:56):
There are definitely an definitely there, like, yeah, making your
guild less efficient than causing strife. I would want to
put it in I don't like you, but you guys, I.

Speaker 2 (03:32:08):
Don't know because like, Okay, let's say there's someone who
complains about not getting raid time. We don't have that
on here. I don't believe, but that's someone who's like,
when they're not in the raid they complain. Well, the
reason why that person isn't kind of cringe because no, shit,
everyone wants to rate. What's the point of playing this
game in a rating guild if you're not going to
be in, like obviously everyone wants to be in. Isn't
if your main motivation for playing the game is getting loot?

(03:32:29):
Isn't not getting loot? Also, like it makes sense to
not like that.

Speaker 3 (03:32:35):
Yeah, they want all the lude, you know, not only
do they want all the lute?

Speaker 2 (03:32:39):
They don't really like gets irrational.

Speaker 3 (03:32:41):
It gives the biggest like like basically, if it's like
a points one person upgrade, it's like, oh, that's mine,
Whereas like if someone else could get it and be
get like twenty item levels, right, clearly you should go
to the person that gets twenty item levels. But if
it's like, all this is like this for me and
it's just a minor upgrade, then uh yeah, that's like
a luke goblin.

Speaker 2 (03:32:59):
So who just wants it? All?

Speaker 4 (03:33:00):
All right?

Speaker 1 (03:33:01):
We took a little break as uh, we've been going
for I think close to four hours, but and then
you know, it was getting late. But now it's even
later and we're back. We're doing more. We've got a
couple more of these archetypes to go, and then that'll
be it for this episode. So I hope every everybody
who's stuck around this deep into the podcast shout out

(03:33:22):
you guys, you're the real heroes.

Speaker 2 (03:33:24):
M So, what do we got now? We got thet
glazing Gary. Okay, we double check the uh, let's double
check what that means.

Speaker 1 (03:33:36):
Fronk did not send me any insight about what any
of these work, except for one that I already knew.
Oh he's now gone. For anybody wondering Frank, is it's
gotten too late for Frank? Now he's gone.

Speaker 2 (03:33:45):
So it's just asked, wait, do we not have notes anymore?
We do? So it is a glaze. So a glazing
Gary is very pro Blizzard. It's like any okay, or
maybe it's pretty while it's just like any change. Oh, like, dude,
that's gonna save the game, Like like that's so sick,
Like no matter what it is, that is the I

(03:34:05):
remember we've.

Speaker 1 (03:34:07):
Got hating Harry up next as well. So these are
like two brothers, right, one who will always glaze any
any Blazzer decision and one who will always hate on
it no matter what it is.

Speaker 2 (03:34:16):
Okay, so it's interesting to talk about maybe both of
them at the same time. Yeah, so they're both opposite
of each other. My thought is a glazer doesn't really
bother me. It's kind of like, you know, they're just
like overglazing, but the hater is insanely annoying, Like even
though they're both bad for the opposite reason. I feel

(03:34:39):
like I would if I if I had the choice
of hearing a bunch of glazers. Actually, I don't know.
Glaziers can be hell annoying too, Yeah, it depends on
the spot.

Speaker 1 (03:34:47):
I think that the haters are probably more annoying.

Speaker 2 (03:34:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (03:34:53):
Yeah, it depends on what the topic is, because like
usually if it's like something that's kind of just like whatever,
bins like yeah, that's cool that glazing. If it's like
something that's like critically bad but they're still blazing it.

Speaker 1 (03:35:08):
Like conduit energy. I remember having a lot of issues
with glazing Gary's on conduit energy for instance.

Speaker 2 (03:35:14):
Wait what yeah, like that was an energy Gary?

Speaker 4 (03:35:20):
Right?

Speaker 2 (03:35:20):
Like if you were somebody who did right, then yeah,
like you you had like a basically like a crisis
mentally about cond of energy, Like even though Kndra energy
wasn't the biggest deal. Is just like why the fuck
does this exist?

Speaker 4 (03:35:31):
Ye?

Speaker 2 (03:35:32):
And and and and then you have to deal with
people being like no, man, it's because what is it? Sorry?
What were the glazing? What were the Gary's argument?

Speaker 1 (03:35:39):
They would regurgitate the argument that Blizzard would make about
it when they were asked, which is like when they
don't want people to feel obligated to change their their conduits,
and they think that they thought that raid leaders would
make people do it. But if there's a restriction to
only being able to do it once a day stacking
up to ten, then somehow those raid leaders wouldn't do that,

(03:36:00):
not to mention the fact that that would never have happened.

Speaker 2 (03:36:02):
That did never happen, all right, So basically they're just
as annoying, but there's a lot less of them, Like
basically you have way less interactions with the glazing Gary.

Speaker 1 (03:36:10):
Also, like if you're a glazing Gary on eighty percent
of stuff but not the most egregious twenty percent, you're
totally fine. But if you're a hating Harry on eighty
percent of stuff, you're very annoying, right yeah, yeah exactly,
So yeah, okay, or get to a better Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:36:27):
No matter what, hating Harry has to be one level
lower than glazing Gary isn't positive, Yeah, but definitely.

Speaker 1 (03:36:38):
Maybe kind of cringe and I don't like you. Yeah,
that'd even kind of cringe and blow up.

Speaker 2 (03:36:42):
Yeah, I would say glazing like hating Harry is because
what we're assuming there's there's credible reasons to hate yeah
on Blizzard, but I think the hating Harry is there
there's no logic behind it. It's just Blizzard's discriminated, right,
that's fucking that might be blow up. That's like so
fucking annoying. I think Dungeon said it sucks, okay, But

(03:37:07):
the only thing with glazing gary being kind of cringe
is if glazing Gary's were in we're out there in
as much force as hating Harry's, they would also need
to be blown up. So it's true. So it's basically
just because there's not that many of them, And I
think that's maybe okay, good point.

Speaker 1 (03:37:20):
Yeah, And I think there's more glazing Garys are like
generally positive but not to a fault, whereas there are
there are a lot of like actual hating Harry's, right
that like take it all the way.

Speaker 2 (03:37:34):
Yeah, Jesus Christ. All right.

Speaker 1 (03:37:36):
Up next is open mic. I think we all know
this versus microphone is open.

Speaker 2 (03:37:42):
Yeah, and more specifically not the people who do this
is what I do. I have like voice activation all
the time on Discord, but you use instead of push talk,
use toggle mute, right, which is just you press a
button and it'll mute it, and then you press a
button unmuted. It's just push a talk, except way less
holding a key down.

Speaker 4 (03:37:59):
Weird.

Speaker 2 (03:37:59):
Not talking about that. We are talking about the person
that has voice activation permanently on Discord, usually raid leading
a large pug and you hear everything from arguments with
their spouse to potato chips being eaten somehow, there's all
they're always eating potato chips. They're the thing, Mike.

Speaker 1 (03:38:21):
Yeah, they're breathing into It's defensible, I think if you're
a raid leader and you don't have too much background noise.
But like the worst case is when it's just like
a guy is doing this, Like you just have somebody
in your guild who is open mic despite being just
a regular raider and not not talking very often. Right,
but then they're just you hear the munching on the
chips or whatever and the argument from the apartment next door.

Speaker 3 (03:38:44):
You know, I will say it is twenty twenty five.
Gamers do need a stuff of their audio game. We
can't be stuck in the dark ages well.

Speaker 2 (03:38:54):
Like using like a headset mic or whatever.

Speaker 3 (03:38:57):
Yeah, just like you know, like understand anyhow to you
like use your microphone and positioning it better, using like
a noise suppressor.

Speaker 2 (03:39:06):
Yeah, little things. Okay, maybe a little streamer, but I
feel like I wonder how many streamers would not have that,
Like are argument some people with some interesting mics for sure?
Absolutely terrible mic Oh yeah, okay, so they're not they're
not harmless, they cause harmless.

Speaker 1 (03:39:25):
Are they kind of cringe or are they worse?

Speaker 2 (03:39:27):
Okay, I'm leaning harmless because they can be kind of cringe,
but it can also be insanely funny. Yeah, Like like like,
for example, if I'm doing undercover raid leader content and
the there's someone in there just like open micing the
whole time, I'm laughing the entire run, but like because
I just I think it's so funny that it's happening,
not not. I don't know that that's positive to me.

(03:39:50):
I don't know. You're like happy because it's I'm happy
that I'm witnessing this, But.

Speaker 1 (03:39:55):
You wouldn't want to get play with one people regularly.

Speaker 2 (03:39:58):
Definitely not in moderation. They're funny, Yeah, then they're not
intending to be funny, but it's funny that it's happening. Yeah,
I think that might be a niche take. It's probably
just bad, but it's not. It's not any worse than
kind of cringe, right.

Speaker 1 (03:40:13):
Kind of cringe.

Speaker 2 (03:40:14):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (03:40:15):
Up Next is tech issue Terry tech ishu. Terry is
the person in your raid who does not who has
the week or but it doesn't work for them for
some reason.

Speaker 2 (03:40:24):
And oh, this is trial.

Speaker 1 (03:40:25):
They're they have the their computer like they got a
new one six months ago, but already it's it's like
the GPU's wrote wrong or something on it, or there's
a RAM issue that they're having, and their internet's going
to go out, and all of these different things happen
very constantly, always to this person, disproportunately compared to the
rest of your raid.

Speaker 2 (03:40:45):
I need to ask you, guys, if there's someone in
your guild that this would fall under your Oh well,
let me explain. So, this is Trill in our guild,
and we don't know why it's happening. But basically, every
single time we are the servers got DDAs, and there
was a lot of server issues this race, and every
single time Trilled d seed forcefully, so like he didn't

(03:41:07):
log out, he got d seed, or his game crash
or whatever. He would have to delete and install all
of his raid week goor a pack again, or uh,
whenever there's like an assignment aura for like jails or something,
it just wouldn't work. It would never assign Trill and
everyone else's week, or would not see Trill in the
raid whatsoever. And you would wipe. We had at least

(03:41:29):
ten wipes this raid due to Trill's specific and had
not happened to anyone else. Trill's liquid week or A
pack did not work and had to be reinstalled after DC. Uh.
Have you guys ever experienced anything like that.

Speaker 1 (03:41:43):
Yeah, It's it's tough because, like for us, it's a
it's our Windwalker pdpr who doesn't like add ons in.

Speaker 2 (03:41:50):
General, which that's that's what you're that's happening in your
oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:41:56):
But also in our guild. Noticeably, he's very stupid, whereas
Trill is not. So that's like a crucial factor.

Speaker 2 (03:42:02):
That means we can't trust.

Speaker 1 (03:42:04):
Yeah, we're talking about that.

Speaker 3 (03:42:05):
Yeah, they're very similar to they're both like ranked one
PvP yar Windwalker guys.

Speaker 1 (03:42:12):
Yeah, so maybe it's something with that, but again Trill
is that's the hard part whenever we're diagnosing it is
we're just never sure how much of it is due
to that and versus how much of it due to
him just like messing something up on an install.

Speaker 2 (03:42:26):
Yeah, we've had like tech professionals and this sounds so
stupid to say this go to his computer at an
event and like fully try to diagnose why this is
happening and we can't figure it out. It's like some
it's like something beyond science.

Speaker 1 (03:42:39):
It's like maybe it is the like ranked one sick
windwalker players just.

Speaker 2 (03:42:43):
Yeah, they just like there's something about them they just
can't Yeah, they're cursed. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (03:42:47):
Yeah, I feel so bad for these people as well,
Like there's nothing worse than having tech issues out of
your control, right, Like it's so brutful.

Speaker 2 (03:42:53):
Oh yeah, he was getting hard tilted about it. Yeah,
especially it was like wiping us in progression.

Speaker 1 (03:42:57):
Yeah, I mean it's the worst feeling.

Speaker 2 (03:42:59):
Are they that that version is harmless? But is there
like a kind of cringe person when their shit's always
broken and it affects you negatively, Like they can't be positive.
It's not a positive thing.

Speaker 1 (03:43:08):
Well, just like a sympathy positive where it's like, man,
that sucks, that's happening to you and it's out of
your control.

Speaker 2 (03:43:12):
Yeah, but you'd rather them not have that issue. So yeah,
like it's harmless or kind of cringe. It has to
be dorky.

Speaker 3 (03:43:20):
You decide it's it's not their fault, but they are
a problem.

Speaker 2 (03:43:30):
Classify this, Yeah, trill, you're kind of cringe. Throw it
in there. Yeah, at the bottom of it too, worse
than forgotten. I'll put it.

Speaker 1 (03:43:38):
I'll put it here. I forgot that it matters. I
usually do my traierless but not really mattering. Hmm.

Speaker 2 (03:43:43):
Okay, So we have the Alcoholic Is this the version
that they're Oh no, that's coming up. That's the rat,
that's the rat. Okay, So Alcoholic is.

Speaker 1 (03:43:55):
Fifty characters, ten death Knights, their death Knight may and
then like seven of each the others and one of
each race class combo.

Speaker 2 (03:44:03):
Yeah, everyone knows one person like this in Wow that
just simply keeps leveling characters, and basically their way of
enjoying Wow is they have something that they're watching on
their second monitor and they just level characters over and
over again, and the leveling process is why they play
the game. So it's a strange archetype absolutely exists. I
don't know why they do this, Like, like, I just

(03:44:25):
don't think the leveling process of MMOs is that sick,
but to them it just definitely is.

Speaker 1 (03:44:29):
I can kind of relate. I like leveling, like not
wile leveling now, but I guess because I've done it
so many times. But it's an enjoyable part of the game.

Speaker 2 (03:44:38):
The first time you level in an MML, by the way,
especially if you happen to be a child at this time,
is like it's just like there's nothing that equates to that.
It's it's like there's there's no experience you can have
that will be the same.

Speaker 1 (03:44:52):
All Right, I think these people are w up at
the top.

Speaker 2 (03:44:55):
Yeah, I like w w Yeah, very good for the game.
Hell yeah, all right. So next is Drat Noose. So
Drat Noise.

Speaker 3 (03:45:02):
I'll let you just say this one is bad. Yeah,
I describe yourself.

Speaker 1 (03:45:05):
I want to make a defense, but I am currently
on an eye level six forty four Resto Shampan healing
a weekly key. Uh so I can't really defend myself
on charges of this one. This is the weekly Rat,
which is somebody who they are just like always playing
some new rat and uh in some weekly content or

(03:45:29):
you know, they're filling their vaults or they're bringing it
to Heroic, right, they're bringing it to Reclear of some kind. Right,
you you log in and they're just always like they're
on something new and they're trying to sneak it into
content that it's really not geared for but you know
they they are. It's fine if they do it, as
long as not everybody else does it as well at
the same time, right, And people get kind of mad

(03:45:50):
because you know, of course you would.

Speaker 2 (03:45:54):
Yeah, it's me.

Speaker 3 (03:45:55):
Yeah, they're also the main problem is I have a
lot of friends like these who are extremely indecisive on
what they want to play. Like one week they'll play
Dispriests and then feel like, ah, man, you know, I'm
not really feeling Dispriece, like I'm bored of disprison and
they're gonna play something else, and you just like, it's
hard to do content with these guys because you just

(03:46:17):
want to do, like, you know, something serious. But if
you're just always playing something else, they're always on a
new character and you can't get them to stick to something.

Speaker 1 (03:46:29):
Yeah, so I try. I try not to do it
in that. I'm just like, I like playing rats for
you know, for fun.

Speaker 2 (03:46:34):
For content. Well, it's more I think it's just you
you wanted like the gearing processing when I was really
cool and yeah making Yeah, you're as strong as the feeling,
and they more geared your main gets, the less you
get that feeling. So by continually swapping to that you
like constant, constant dopemine. You getting a stronger, guys, this
is drat nos dratnose does this by the way, if
you guys were not wondering, Yeah, I got my weekly

(03:46:55):
video and he's literally doing it right now.

Speaker 1 (03:46:58):
To be fair, I don't normally don't remember recording. We
started recording, and I didn't know we're about start recording,
so I started a key. But it's almost done.

Speaker 2 (03:47:04):
We're about beautiful.

Speaker 1 (03:47:06):
I have caused a lot of doubts, but that is fine.
We're gonna win. We're not gonna do chest, but we're
gonna win.

Speaker 2 (03:47:14):
Okay, Weekly rat oh man. When these people have been
When I was playing and these people were in the guild,
this was, uh, you avoided these people for sure in
your runs because like they do one on their main
and be like yo, cut I long on a guy
and it's just the worst character.

Speaker 3 (03:47:31):
Yes, for me, it's a personal, straight up blow up
like it because like I have a lot of friends,
like physically, you know, I have somebody friends, but I
just like, man, like just just fucking kill your ships together.

Speaker 2 (03:47:44):
Man, But like we're just like, okay, where would you play?

Speaker 1 (03:47:49):
It's the goat for sure.

Speaker 2 (03:47:50):
No, Okay, so Dorky's in blow up, I'm in like
kind of cringe and he's in Goat.

Speaker 1 (03:47:55):
No, I'm not actually a goat. I I I believe
this is a negative trait to you know, take it.

Speaker 2 (03:48:00):
I think it's and I don't like you is the
is the compromise? Then it sounds like.

Speaker 4 (03:48:03):
All right to me, that's all right.

Speaker 2 (03:48:06):
What is floor PV just someone who dies all the time?

Speaker 1 (03:48:09):
Yeah, this is the person who's just always dead right,
Like they're they're dead on They're not even necessarily bad players,
but like they get their reputation for just like always
being dead. You know, you look at on a certain
boss kill and like they're they're dead right. They died
five minutes in on multiple of your and boss kills.

Speaker 2 (03:48:25):
Right, it's like the fal Koran guy in your guild
when I was watching you guys on Muggsy and Natty
like Hit of Mind did a bunch of crazy stuff.
Yeah that guy awful. Okay, Floor PVY. I mean, bro, like, Luke,
are they harmless you're trying?

Speaker 3 (03:48:43):
Yeah, they're pretty harmless. I mean just whatever, really, well,
it depends on why they're floor PV too.

Speaker 2 (03:48:50):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (03:48:51):
But yeah, in some cases it's like this person's actually bad,
and in some cases it's just like it's coincidence, right,
like this person and in some cases it's like this
person's good, but something they're bad at is in clutch
moments they start to they play like worse, which is
a bad that's a bad drape for being good, but

(03:49:13):
not you know, bad for being a bad person.

Speaker 2 (03:49:16):
Mm hm Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:49:17):
The way I've always seen it is like if someone's
just making mistakes and it's whatever, you know, I don't
really care. But if they're like intentionally dying or like
very vision, yeah, they just like don't care to drive,
then you know, that's a little bit more offensive.

Speaker 1 (03:49:31):
Sometimes these people are it's because they're prioritizing something ELSEO
for survivability, right, Like they're sometimes this is like the
parse Peter is also a floor POV guy, right, because
like you're gonna die.

Speaker 2 (03:49:42):
More if you're just focusing that, yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:49:43):
Staying in and doing damage.

Speaker 4 (03:49:44):
Right.

Speaker 1 (03:49:45):
So a lot of the combos with this are pretty bad.
But I think in and of itself, it's not too bad.

Speaker 2 (03:49:52):
Yeah, you're not. I mean, I I just I think
that people being more you could be a floor PUV
and be like a great great hang. Yeah you know,
so it's like you'd have to see the average of it.
But it also like is the average floor PUV the uh?
Are they like negative? Are are they like displacing blamers?
There's a few of those on this uh list. Right,

(03:50:14):
So like you said, you said great hang because they
were like dead right.

Speaker 4 (03:50:19):
Yea.

Speaker 2 (03:50:20):
Good good hang joke. I don't know what do you
guys think? Like it's like a mixture of a couple
of different things, but it's hard to tell their actual personality.
They can't be because like they're harming your raid progression,
so maybe kind of cringe they maybe kind of cringe
to be a floor PV. Don't do it?

Speaker 1 (03:50:37):
Yeah, Like it depends, like if this is the person
where you pop open Warcraft logs and you sort you
open up deaths and they're like way the worst by
a lot there, Like that is pretty bad. That kind
of player is usually usually the worst player on your roster, right.

Speaker 3 (03:50:51):
Yeah, yeah, things usually warriors, And I feel sympathy some.

Speaker 2 (03:50:55):
Classes are easier to be floor pvs than other. That
is absolutely true.

Speaker 1 (03:50:59):
Yeah, Like if you're DK last season and you died
a lot like holy how.

Speaker 2 (03:51:02):
How how is this? Nothing kills you? Yeah, and you
can't be pushed off of anything like you just yeah,
it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (03:51:09):
All right, let's go with kind of cringe.

Speaker 2 (03:51:12):
Okay, we have that the early and often this is
the exploiter.

Speaker 1 (03:51:16):
That's right, This is the person who you know, they're
they know about the holiday buff that's out right now
that you can use to get physics, more damage and keys.
But also like they know the way to bug a
boss or they're you know, there's some world quests that
you can repeat infinitely to get artifact power and they're
doing it right like all those.

Speaker 2 (03:51:37):
Does this include like okay, so like we did some
exploity stuff in the ractor world. First you're kind of
like always on the line of like doing the best
thing you can to succeed, and then also the blurry
line of like what exploits are bannable and what isn't?
Are you talking are you including that or are you
talking about the people that like used a dev code
to just like instantly kill myth at Galiwicks a couple
of times, or like the people that are included in

(03:52:00):
the high Mythic plus scene doing like keys with tour
gas powers, Like, is it all of that?

Speaker 3 (03:52:07):
I would say all of that honestly, like anything where
it's like it's sketchy and you wanna, I feel like
that's all of us.

Speaker 2 (03:52:13):
Like the reality is there's so many like minor exploits
that once you know people are doing them, like stuff
you can do with like crafting your rings and shit,
you know, just stuff like that that you know people
start doing, you know they're never going to ban for it,
and everyone just does it because Ward has taught you
to exploit early and often within and you just need
to be smart enough to identify where the line is
of going too far. But there's a lot of stuff

(03:52:35):
below the line that's fine. So like, if you're not
getting banned for exploits and you don't do it, you're
you're you did the wrong thing, right.

Speaker 1 (03:52:42):
I just thought I wouldn't need Serce circlet anymore, so
I deleted it, and then I realized it was still
biss so I went and got a new one from
the vendor, and then I did that on twelve other
characters Like I, I didn't realize it happens.

Speaker 2 (03:52:53):
It's exactly what the thing is. Everyone does this shit
because you know it's not going to get banned, people
have already done it. And then like you know, when
you do stuff to agree to. So if this is,
if this all falls under the purview of early and
often you could be someone who does those minor ones
that you're never gonna get banned for and is totally
like morally okay to do because Blizzard has told you
that basically, then like that's harmless. You're just a regular person.

(03:53:17):
But then there's people that even I mean, the thing
is though, is the people that bugged and exploited mythic Galliwicks,
like the people that just went into one shot mythic Galliwicks.
Is is that are those people? Are they also harmless?
Like Blizzard just takes the kill off the board and
who cares.

Speaker 3 (03:53:33):
Right, I mean, I would say more often than this
is not harmless. I would say, like most players would
see this as a pretty big negative, especially if you're
someone who like exploits and plus titles. Right, Like, if
you're just Alan veris straight up abusing certain things and
you're not getting punished for they get those taken. We're
not happy about this, I mean sometimes sometimes yeah, sometimes.

Speaker 2 (03:53:57):
Then I feel like if when you're when you're exploiting
to achieve something that you would not have achieved otherwise,
and then it gets removed. I feel like that affects
no one except for like a Blizzard CS person, like
you don't even think about it, who cares well?

Speaker 3 (03:54:13):
But I mean that's kind of like the idea of
early and often, right, Like the idea is that you're
doing it early and often so that you can get
away with it.

Speaker 1 (03:54:23):
Yeah, I mean, even like exploiting bosses, Like you can
imagine a world where Galliwick's exploiters actually revealed a secret
phases existence or something like that, right, Like, I mean
they did reveal the fact that there is the first
quadrons of the room starts off electrified or whatever.

Speaker 2 (03:54:35):
Right. Yeah, they also revealed a boss like when it dies,
it just like dies in that form, you know. Yeah,
so there was some revealing by them not revealing stuff,
if that makes sense. But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (03:54:48):
I'm incline to agree that there's like there's a type
of exploit that a lot of high end players just
do because we've all learned that you will always get away,
like the Cerce circlet bringing exploit thing, right, Like you're
never going to get in trouble for doing something like that,
right or the recraft bug yep last season, Right Like,
those are just you're definitely getting away with it, and
then there's some gray area stuff, and then there's the

(03:55:09):
stuff where it's like, this will definitely get banned if
it comes to blizzards attention and it becomes a big
enough deal, but you might get away with it because
they just might not notice, right Like, But yep, those
are like certainly on the wrong side of the line,
and they're I don't know if we average all that out.
I do think this is a negative trait even though
most of us.

Speaker 3 (03:55:27):
Personally I am w cheating, I am all four of this,
so this is w for me. But at the same
time I will I will say, like you know, for
community and for a game, it is definitely a pretty
big negative.

Speaker 2 (03:55:43):
I think we messed up by not having two different categories.
Like I think there is a massive difference in like
people breaking the game and exploiting and getting content done
versus people doing like the exploits that exist and everyone
knows they're perfectly fine to do, and I don't e
for like ten years, Blizzer doesn't give a fuck, but
you would technically consider them exploits. But those those two

(03:56:03):
things in the same categories, it doesn't even make sense. Uh,
but it's there, so we're here, so now we have
to combine them. So it's what like kind of cringe.
I guess we're all a little cringe for our exploits,
okay or something like that, right, because like if it
was the other category would be significantly lower. And then
if you're just the person who does the exploits and

(03:56:24):
never gets banned for them, because that's what Blizzer does,
then that's based as fuck.

Speaker 1 (03:56:27):
You know, Yeah, that's fair. I just realize we don't
have like a boosting and boosty guy on here.

Speaker 2 (03:56:36):
Ooh, that's kind of good. We can maybe add that
at the end.

Speaker 1 (03:56:39):
Yeah, fronkle He'll put He'll put one of those in
if I guess it would.

Speaker 2 (03:56:43):
Be very interesting, Okay, the overcooked Oh okay, so this
is the opposite of the cook, which is in goat, right.
This is the person who always has a new route
when you join their key. But it's always bad, right,
It's just never it's it's it's like they're like opening
up the they're linking the Mythic plus route and you

(03:57:04):
look at it and you're like, what the fuck? But man,
is there some kind of entertainment value? Like if you
zone into Ayavashara the the like Mythic Plus dungeon and
he links a route going right through the Ogre Cave,
You're like, you're not thinking this is a good route,
but you're like, holy shit, what's gonna happen next? Like
I have to I have to see this.

Speaker 1 (03:57:26):
There's also the raid version of this, where it's like
they just do a different trap, and oftentimes it's like
they won't understand why something won't work or was done
the way it was by the video gilds, and they
just running back the they'll just change something about it,
and then thirty polls later, they'll change it back because
you realize why that's bad.

Speaker 2 (03:57:44):
I respect that though. I fucking like that. I think
that's that's what they're just trying to feel alive. Bro,
do some do some change because you don't understand it,
and then understand why that change was made, and then
that's like half of the fun of why what we
did in the first place? Right, That's sweet?

Speaker 1 (03:57:58):
And then eventually like they're eventually you will then actually
come up with an optimization, right, like you'll actually you'll
do it.

Speaker 2 (03:58:03):
And more people did that, by the end of farm
there would actually just be strats that are straight up
better than what we do.

Speaker 1 (03:58:09):
Yeah, one d percent? Uh that like that's how, that's
how the scarn.

Speaker 2 (03:58:14):
Okay, but hold on, but that's cookie that's not necessarily.

Speaker 1 (03:58:16):
Yeah, but okay, But I want to say, like, there
are a lot of people that, Like there's a guy
in my guild who ninety percent of the cooks he
comes up with are overcooked as hell, And he came
up with the scarn three tank strat and we didn't
implement it because he's an overcooker usually, But there are
stories that you couldn't do it.

Speaker 2 (03:58:35):
Also, can you only become the cook by overcooking for
a little bit? Exactly? You need to like trial and
error cooking before you're the cook. So I feel like
these people are just they're they're cooks in training, but
some of them will never make it.

Speaker 1 (03:58:50):
Yeah, I want to give this a fairly high rating
because I do. I think the game would be better
if more people were this and if people were more
accepting of it, because I think that people often just
like hate playing with the overcook, but I think that that's.

Speaker 2 (03:59:02):
Like ah man, yeah, But at the same time, like
if you zone into the mythic Pustungeon, you look at
the route and you look at this pole they want
to do, you're like, we're going to wipe to that
and then and then and then you pull the key
and it's like a fucking roller coaster ride and you're like,
I can't wait for this thing to happen. And then
we're definitely gonna wipe, and then you wipe, and it's like,
holy fuck, that was crazy, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:59:23):
If you're like, if you can only play one key
a week because you've got you know, three wives and
five kids or whatever, and you have only thirty hours,
thirty minutes a week to play, yeah, and your one
key is bricked by somebody trying some really cringe weird stuff.
I could see that sucking.

Speaker 2 (03:59:39):
Yeah. I will say.

Speaker 3 (03:59:43):
These guys, they are definitely on the cringe side when like,
you know, when it comes to comedian perception, most people
will perceive these people as like just cringe people. But
at the same time, you know, I respect it. I
fully respect people who are willing to like try st
if that's different from the norm.

Speaker 1 (04:00:03):
Yeah, me too. Okay, So where armless?

Speaker 2 (04:00:07):
Are they harmless? Is there good outweigh the bad? Does
it equal each other? Like they're actually not harmless, they're
like harmless. That's the thing. Like harmless was called neutral,
it would make more sense because they do cause harm,
but they sometimes generate enough good things to offset it
with leading it into that category? Are they are they

(04:00:27):
kind of cringe or if you're the cook or you
just kind of cringe until you learn how to cook,
maybe maybe yeah kind of all.

Speaker 1 (04:00:38):
Right, let's so that kind of cringe all right? Up
next is the MMO tribleist.

Speaker 2 (04:00:44):
Oh Jesus, did I already use my one time? I
did on Ratio Randall, But I don't.

Speaker 1 (04:00:49):
Think you're gonna need to. I think there's a good
chance that you'll be able to get.

Speaker 2 (04:00:53):
Me as a streamer. These are the most insufferable people
I think we deal with out of anyone on this list,
because they just it's the person that like they play
their own game, but they don't just play their game.
Their game has to be the best MML and they are,
and they're gonna go in your stream and tell you
that your momo is bad when like kind of the

(04:01:14):
only reasonable thing is like you play your game, you
like your game, that's fine, but like, why are you
thinking about the other game at all? That doesn't really
make any sense.

Speaker 4 (04:01:20):
Like this.

Speaker 2 (04:01:20):
You saw these people during the like Final Fantasy era
of Wow, that is where I think this was the
most prevalent, because like every Final Fantasy player is just.

Speaker 4 (04:01:28):
Like fuck wow.

Speaker 2 (04:01:30):
And and then while players were, we're not liking Final Fantasy,
so it's just like my game has to be the best.
I don't know, I find these people really annoying. They're
not just MMOs. They also exist in every other game,
Like they are absolutely like like csgo versus Valerit tribalists,
you know, they can't just tribler Yeah, just tribals them everywhere.
But we're most closely aligned with like the MMO ones. Yeah,

(04:01:52):
if you know, of if you have a friend like this,
they're not your friend. Like it's tough. Oh dude, I
don't plenty of people like it.

Speaker 3 (04:02:01):
Yeah, I mean I don't blame it, right, it's kind
of like human nature to be tribalistic, but yeah, it's
definitely fringe behavior no matter what circumstance is there ever,
a situation where being tribalist is good means it's.

Speaker 2 (04:02:17):
Interested, Like, Okay, you have like pride, you have pride
in your game. You love Blizzards, so fuck every other game,
Like that's it. Maybe it comes from that place. It's
just that if you actually like Wow, you should want
every other mmo to succeed because that makes Wow have
to try way harder. Wow just just like you're saying
is the best mmo ever, then like they're not gonna

(04:02:37):
put in as much effort as if they feel like
they have someone close to them, So like it actually
benefits you for the other games to be great or
as close as they can or better. Right, so your
game gets better, the one you like gets better. I
think maybe some of the psychology is if they shit
on other games, then it makes their friends more likely
to stay, maybe want their friends to stay. And then
like it's a game. Wow is a game all of

(04:02:59):
us agree is more fun with friends, so like, if
your friends keep playing it, you can keep having fun.
So you don't want anyone to leave your game, And
you're kind of speaking that into existence by saying how
much better it is than every other one? Uh, these
these guys fucking it they suck. Yeah, I would. I
would put them in eternal damnation for me.

Speaker 3 (04:03:19):
Okay, I think that's a little bit shrown, but honestly.

Speaker 2 (04:03:24):
I'm now for it.

Speaker 1 (04:03:26):
Okay, I was thinking blow up, but I'm happy with
the time.

Speaker 2 (04:03:28):
I mean, it sounds like you both were thinking blow up.
That's fine, we can go blow up, just fucking blow up,
you know, all right? Like who else they hang out? Like?
I think a good thing to look at these lists
is like would these people hang out? Like? You can
totally look at the blow up category? Politics, police, the
class discord demon the like racial world first fan, the

(04:03:50):
MMO tribalist, those guys all they all get along because
they all are a similar level of degenerate. Like I think, like,
if if you were just a simple MMO tribalist, you
would shudder in fear at the sight of an RBG
or you know, like you you would, you would, you
would be you would you would realize that what you
thought was bad is nowhere close. So I think it's

(04:04:10):
a different category for sure. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (04:04:14):
Up next is the elitism helper who has the add
on elitism helper running And it's like you guys ever
played with one of these people where you you know,
you stand the fire for a second and that there
will be a message from this add on that that
reports it and stitches on you, and at the end
of the dungeon it does like who took the most
avoidable damage.

Speaker 3 (04:04:32):
I let's say these guys are mostly doing it out
of like it's kind of like details, you know how
you just want to see, like, yeah, have a breakdown
of people's damage and all. But some people use it
as a weapon. And if as a weapon bad is cringe.

Speaker 2 (04:04:46):
I'm actually under the impression that most people who have
this installed it on accident because it was part of
some weak or a pack that had other things that
they wanted. I struggle to believe.

Speaker 3 (04:04:55):
No, it's a straight up add on that like you
like intentionally download.

Speaker 2 (04:04:58):
You think so I don't understand it. I just don't
understand why anyone wants to be the unactually person on purpose.

Speaker 3 (04:05:05):
Well, like again, I don't think like they're doing it intentionally.
They're doing it just so like to see to have
like a rough idea of how much mistake people, especially healers.

Speaker 2 (04:05:14):
This is more common healers.

Speaker 1 (04:05:16):
These are often This is often also overlapping with mechanic
Michael right where, it's just like this person's kind of
is there's like, guys, you have to not stand in
the fire.

Speaker 2 (04:05:29):
Yeah, I mean it's definitely like basically every time I've
ever seen an elitism thing posted in chat, I'm just
laughing somebody. I can't believe someone is doing this, Like
it's the most ridiculous thing, and like maybe it's a
displacement blamed thing. So if a lot of healers have it,
maybe they are like some of these other people we've
talked about on here where they oh, you died, well,

(04:05:50):
I'm the healer and I just want to let you
know that the reason you died is probably because you
got hit by all of these things that are going
to list out with my add on right now, not
because I didn't heal you.

Speaker 3 (04:05:58):
Right well, So it's all for their own validation. Like
I don't know if you have you guys ever seen
umtv's look of a Numbers video No No where. I
mean it was a really big video of It's like
it like it's one of his all time videos where
it was basically some dude that was doing like review
of I'm not sure if it was like his own gameplay.

(04:06:21):
It was like a healer, right if it was like
his own gameplay or someone else's gameplay, and he was
just like basically saying like how like, oh, look at
the numbers. You know, like if you're doing like a
lower level key, you just have to do more healing
because like when you're playing level lower level keys, people
take more damage at all, which is true, right, Like
it is kind of true of that, Like if you're
doing lower level content, chances are you have to pull
more weight. And for healers, oftentimes it is something where

(04:06:43):
you look at and be like, h like maybe like
I am pulling my own ways, just like it can
be hard in these punk situations.

Speaker 1 (04:06:51):
That is a crazy phenomenon. If you actually have a
higher HPS requirement in the two than in a six or.

Speaker 2 (04:06:56):
Something, that is an extremely crazy requirement and it also
probably makes me pull your hair out as a healer,
because like, as a VPS player, it's like how well
am I playing? Am I dying? Is our group dying?
And am I doing as much damage? Like what you
can do is laid out in front of you. But
as a healer, it's like a it's like a mixed
bag you'd have no idea what you're gonna get when
you go into a pug key. You might just have
to do a ton of healing or zero, and you
have basically no idea other than like the relative key

(04:07:17):
level you're doing, which could kind of let you believe
what quality of player will be in there. Maybe. But
it's just like you did just I mean, honestly, it
sounds kind of fun. It's always different, you know, you
got to just figure it out, improvise.

Speaker 1 (04:07:31):
All right, what do we think about the elitism helper?

Speaker 2 (04:07:34):
They're not positive? Okay? Do you think kind of cringe
or I'm thinking kind of cringe. I don't think it's
any worse than that the fact, Yeah, I don't think
it's too harmful. Yeah, all right, it's And also I
laugh every time I see it, so it has such
a positive benefit for me to make it not way low.
All right.

Speaker 1 (04:07:50):
Next is the vibe assassin. This person rips a sigh
as soon as you wipe, and the mood is down
so bad for the rest of the night.

Speaker 2 (04:08:00):
Yeah, Dratos has one of these in his guild. I
don't know his name, but I was listening. I was
hate watching his raid yesterday when we were supposed to
record this is it. I don't know who it was,
but basically there was one person I identified as voicing
it multiple times, but he only ever spoke when in
between polls when he had to complain about some people
doing something bad from the previous poll. But it was
like definitely, like the vibe from the voice was like
not good, and the vibe instantly went down and then dratnos,

(04:08:22):
the morale officer brought it right back up.

Speaker 1 (04:08:24):
That's right, that's me. That's uh. I actually don't even know.
I can't. I couldn't tell you who that would be
in my guild.

Speaker 2 (04:08:31):
So yeah, I mean I could show you the voice
on recording or now that many of them, No, it's
one guy singular dude, yeah, yeah, the so so a
lot of guilds have this and it's just like not constructive,
but they just get mad when things aren't going well
and then they like can't internalize it or won't and
end up. I mean, like the most classic version of

(04:08:52):
this is you wipe no one's saying anything because everyone
knows there's someone tilted, and then that person who was
the known vibe assassin openly size into their mic like
they're upset. Yeah, and that that is like your raid
you will never have another poll that night that is
better than your lowest pole. Like you are, your raid
is in the shadow realm, and it's usually like one
person in a guild that has the power to do this.

Speaker 1 (04:09:15):
Yeah, this like scales with how how important they are
to your comp and also how good of a player
they are, Like the more they are usually person and
then also the more that like that, that then the
the more kind of like secure they are in their spot,
and the more that they know they can just sigh
and like flame people without getting lobbed.

Speaker 2 (04:09:37):
Yeah, this this is a like I would say the
reason they're always good is if they're bad, you just
get rid of them. Like if you if you have
someone in your raid who's like on the edge of
the roster and they're assassinating your vibe, that's like as
an officer, that's I think first person you talk about
kicking after the raid.

Speaker 1 (04:09:54):
The only case where that will happen is if they're
also in leadership, right, like if they if the GM
is the vibe assassin, Oh you can also yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:10:03):
Well it's actually really easy for raid leaders to sometimes
be the vibe goat and the vibe assassin because as
a raid leader, you can't really internalize when you are
like not feeling well or you're upset or not happy
with the current moment, and.

Speaker 1 (04:10:17):
You have to talk right like you have to you
have to ask what wrong there? And you have to
like and if you so if you are tilted, you
can't just be quiet for a bit, you.

Speaker 2 (04:10:25):
Exactly, yeah, exactly, because you being quiet. If if you
talk all the time and you are quiet, your guild
knows that you're tilted. And that's that's that's that's the
same thing that's actually speaking and assassinating the vibe because
everyone knows, you know, so it's like that can happen.
We're talking more like the the person that's not in
leadership that just fucks up your whole night when they're
not feeling good.

Speaker 3 (04:10:45):
They think it's like generally understood, like I think it's
not the worst. I mean, it's definitely bad, but oh dude,
and unplus, it's like extra awkward because you know, there's
only the five of you and when nobody's talking, and
you know it's supposed to be like a kind of
like a buddy scenario. It's kind of like the nonverbal situations. Yeah,

(04:11:12):
that's always a tough.

Speaker 2 (04:11:13):
Look, Like, is that that's the end of your Like,
for example, when that starts happening, that's probably the end
of your keys for the night, right, like you're not
going to continue. Yeah maybe you're a couple and yeah,
the goals are really rough.

Speaker 1 (04:11:23):
You're not gonna get any more IYO that night, right,
just like you're not getting a new best full after
that happens.

Speaker 3 (04:11:29):
Oh, this happens all the time in TGP and md I,
by the way, because like you know, you're just stuck
with the same idiots for like twelve hours straight. It's
gonna happen, and you know, it's kind of forced to write,
like you can't.

Speaker 2 (04:11:39):
Just you can't change your team anymore, break change your
team it.

Speaker 1 (04:11:43):
Yeah, I think that's why I know who's ever played
MBI has had like somebody that they played with.

Speaker 2 (04:11:49):
It's just so annoying and you're doing like the same
thing all day and then like this actually, so the
one that I'm vividly remembering is a disagreement between two
people in MBI, and it happened at the start of
a practice day, so it was just like just like
ten to twelve hours of not being productive and it
just being a weird vibe and it got cleared up
before the next day.

Speaker 1 (04:12:09):
But yeah, this is not even like blow up for me.
This is a blow me up situation.

Speaker 2 (04:12:12):
If you're fucking blow me the fuck up if this
is happening.

Speaker 5 (04:12:15):
Yeah, yeah, I think maybe blow up is the appropriate
that the reason they're not an eternal damnation is number one,
they would shudder at the sight of an RVG or
and number two they.

Speaker 2 (04:12:27):
They they they care. The only way you can be
a vibusassin is if you care, right, you know, if
you don't care, you're just like, oh, this is indifferent
to me. You're not indifferent. You're mad that it's not
going better, which means you care and that that that
that that does count. That's redeeming. Yeah, so I think, uh,
blow the fuck up and blow me up. If you're
ever there too, I'll be blown up this one. I'd

(04:12:48):
say that probe.

Speaker 1 (04:12:50):
Yeah, we've all been the vibus acid. We just tried
to be it as little.

Speaker 2 (04:12:53):
Oh absolutely I have. But I I don't have a choice,
Like like if I if I'm tilted, which happens, I
can't just be quiet because it's the second I'm quiet.
Every single person in the raid within within five seconds
of me not talking when I normally would is is like,
oh Max is tilted, Now I'm gonna tilt. So it's
just like, I mean, you can't literally can't avoid it.

(04:13:17):
The never on time? Yeah, is this self explanatory?

Speaker 1 (04:13:21):
Yeah, I don't think this one needs a PhD to
to explain.

Speaker 2 (04:13:25):
They are not on time. The reason your your raid
starts ten minutes late. They uh, the person who says
I'm gonna just go to the bathroom real quick in
between keys, and it's forty minutes later.

Speaker 4 (04:13:36):
It's the.

Speaker 2 (04:13:39):
This is criminal and them the eye by the way.

Speaker 3 (04:13:41):
This Yeah, people don't show that their time they're supposed
to be practicing.

Speaker 2 (04:13:47):
It's the worst. I mean Race World First too, you
have like so we have like I think six or
seven bathrooms in the facility during the race World First.
But if we take like an, if we take an
we do just take five minute breaks and then those
people were just always late. We're like, maybe just that
doesn't work. We need eight minute breaks or ten minute breaks,
and it doesn't matter. There's always just like people that
are just walking around when it's over. It doesn't matter

(04:14:08):
how long. We've kept extending the breaks for this reason,
because we're like, if people need longer breaks, we can
do that. And it kept extending it and extending it,
and it turns out the break could be infinite and
at the end of it, people will not be at
their computers. So it's just part of it. It's it's
pretty annoying. Yeah, pretty annoying, an eternal damnation god damn No,
not really, but never on time person would literally instantly

(04:14:30):
disintegrate if they were in front of an RBGAR. Yeah,
there's level of feels too deep rooted.

Speaker 1 (04:14:37):
It is pretty bad though, Like this is uh is
it worse than kind of cringing? Maybe it's an I
don't like you.

Speaker 2 (04:14:43):
I think it's just kind of similar. I don't know.
They're just like not reliable, that's all. What's wrong with
being a little not that's a little cringe. You know?
Are they are they? This is not me? By the way,
it sounds like I'm defending me. I'm not a never
on time person, but like the uh, I don't know,
I feel like they're not uh is this does this

(04:15:05):
kind of also qualify under the sum and me thing because.

Speaker 1 (04:15:08):
Like, yeah, this will often be some of them because
they're late.

Speaker 2 (04:15:11):
Yeah, and that's an internal so maybe it's blow up, yeah,
like I swear, depends on the person, right, Like some
people have a massive pet peeve against people who are
not blow them up, blow them up right right up
next to people. Perry so.

Speaker 1 (04:15:33):
Is always pulling the boss early. Often this was Moonkin's
because they would like start with yeah, so Moonkins are
disportunately likely to be this person, which makes me immediately
lower it a tier.

Speaker 2 (04:15:47):
Yeah the hell. I think it's kind of annoying. But
like within the context of a guild like progression night,
if people start pulling early and earlier, you kind of
know when it's gonna happen, and you just you're on
you end up being on time. And there's really, honestly
no guild that just pulls exactly at zero like our
guild pulls from like probably in between like zero point

(04:16:07):
five and one second, like every single time, you know,
like that is that's just what happens. And but maybe
that's like part of the plague, the reason that there's
a pre poll parry. Now you're like you're having to
guess when exactly you start the pre cast, and it's
like this ever evolving thing that changes throughout the night
because people don't want to be late. Yeah, it's also.

Speaker 3 (04:16:27):
There's always like a rogue that just like dies because
you know, yeah, it's like I just wasting progression time.

Speaker 2 (04:16:34):
I think this is this has to be kind of minor, right,
it doesn't seem it is kind of minory.

Speaker 3 (04:16:39):
It's definitely it's an annoyance.

Speaker 1 (04:16:42):
I have a kind of cringe.

Speaker 2 (04:16:43):
Yeah, that sounds good. All right, now we have Dratos again.

Speaker 1 (04:16:49):
The overtimer, the filthy overtime.

Speaker 2 (04:16:51):
Is that what this means? I'm pretty sure that's what
this is. I should say one time where I'm trying
and find the description of it, but I'm pretty sure
it is like is it the overtime raider or or.

Speaker 1 (04:17:06):
Is this no, I think this is like the officer
or GM that is that tries to see or that
forces you into overtiming.

Speaker 2 (04:17:12):
Right now, I mean, that's blow the fuck up. It's like,
that is not me. I everyone here is signing up
for this, although if I I did, I okay, actually
it is me. Like before we started going for Razor
World first, I was like the one heavily pushing us
in that direction. I'm like, I want to do this,
so but like the guild was down though, and I
wouldn't have done it if most people weren't down. I

(04:17:35):
think the if if that's actually the version that we're
talking about here, I think though, that's usually pretty bad.
Like but does that happen though? Like are there guilts
that like don't want to do overtime? Like the majority
of the guild is like I don't want to raid tomorrow,
and then there's one person that's like, but I do,
and then you end up actually doing it.

Speaker 1 (04:17:55):
I think there's a lot of guilds where yeah, like
a you know, a GM or whatever is just going
to keep you in there for an extra third.

Speaker 2 (04:18:01):
Can you just lie and say you have something going
on and you can't be there, then.

Speaker 1 (04:18:05):
You know your right spot's gone and one of the
people on the best.

Speaker 2 (04:18:10):
Yeah, I mean it's a real fear.

Speaker 1 (04:18:14):
If I build we always like pull it and ready
check out whatever. But there's always a fear that if you,
you know, are the person that says no, that you're
going to get retribution and you have to kind of
build up a trust that that's not going to happen.

Speaker 2 (04:18:26):
Oh, I know, I have a story of that. We
were doing a siege of Orgamar. I'm old by the way, uh,
and we were going to kill garage and we were
going to be world eleventh or I think like world
top ten. We ended up World eleventh and we did
like a can everyone be here the next day to
do this? And everyone said yes. We were so excited.

(04:18:48):
It was going to be our highest rank ever, world
top ten for the first time. Holy shit. And this
is already a guild rating five days a week, five
hours a night. It was just rating on a Friday, right,
it was Sunday through Thursday. We were gonna rad it
a Friday, and we were so close to killing the boss,
no question it was going to die. And everyone says
yes except for one player. And this person's reasoning was like, uh,

(04:19:10):
it's just we You say we raid five days, so
we should only raid five days. This wasn't This person
couldn't be there. In fact, the next day when we
did not have our raid because they didn't want to
do it, they were streaming and playing Wow and not
not doing anything other than like they're just playing lowow leisurely,
like they could raid if they wanted to, they don't
have anything else happening, and then we one shot it

(04:19:33):
when we logged in on Sunday, lost like five world
ranks because of it, and everyone was super tilted about it.
And I will never forgive that person for the rest
of my life. So so that right, so there is
a downside to it where if you're the uh, the
person who says no because like you're like, oh, people
don't want it, will like be yeah, like dude, people
will totally be mad at you. I still resent that
person to this day for that. It's that was more

(04:19:55):
than ten years ago.

Speaker 1 (04:19:59):
Yeah, story. Sometimes you get in these awkward spots as well,
where it's like, h seventeen people want to one person
would have to like move something kind of important, and
two people just don't really want to, and like what's
the ethical thing to do here?

Speaker 2 (04:20:11):
Right?

Speaker 1 (04:20:11):
Like how do you how do you handle this? And
it's very but there's also definitely the kind of GM
that will like they will keep on doing polls for
an extra thirty minutes or an hour any night they
want to, even against the wishes of the majority of
their race. With that is that that's more likely than
the extra day yeah, I think that is usually more common.

Speaker 2 (04:20:31):
Thy end up going and just keep going.

Speaker 1 (04:20:34):
And you're so like, people are tired, you're sad, you're tilted.
You're not making frog anyways because you know, people are
tired and it's not good.

Speaker 2 (04:20:43):
You guys, I'm so far away from this.

Speaker 3 (04:20:47):
This is kind of like the whole a couple over
a couple ever, one of the ease that we've talked
about how it's like it's become pretty normalized now to overtime,
so it's not as big of a problem as it
used to be.

Speaker 2 (04:21:03):
What are you or something like, Oh, so you're saying,
like in twenty fifteen when you.

Speaker 3 (04:21:08):
Do the whole whole bomb re rolling shit, right, Like
you know, like we talked negatively about the whole fund rerolling,
but everyone kind of doesn't nowadays. It's just like kind
of expected.

Speaker 2 (04:21:17):
Yeah, but I think it depends on the guild.

Speaker 1 (04:21:19):
Yeah, there are guilds that say they will never overtime,
and then if they ever do, I think that's really
tough because a lot of people joined really planning not
to write and then you get this, You get put
in that spot where there's a lot of pressure on you.
But yeah, I do think there's a lot of guilds
where it's like, yeah, here's our hours, and then you know,
it's a little fuzzy around the edges. If if if

(04:21:39):
we're feeling good and we want to and I don't
have a problem with obviously being in a guilt, but
does that I don't have a problem with it.

Speaker 2 (04:21:45):
I think it's good. Yeah, Journalis is a criminal overtimer.

Speaker 1 (04:21:48):
Yeah, maybe I'm just rationalizing though.

Speaker 2 (04:21:53):
No, No, I think it's I think it's that big
of a prime.

Speaker 1 (04:21:57):
I so I think that the aggressive kind of this
is quite bad, Like i'd say, blow up for that.
But if we're averaging all of the people that are
just you know that the overtime police would would would
issue a citation too. It's definitely not that bad. I know,
dorky you decide.

Speaker 2 (04:22:12):
Uh ungle with I don't like you just because okay, little.

Speaker 1 (04:22:16):
That works nice as well that tear is kind of empty.

Speaker 2 (04:22:18):
So I'm actually really surprised now at the end of this, which,
holy shit, we're done. I'm pretty sure this podcast is
gonna be like four hours long. But the uh I
was expecting much more of like a parabola.

Speaker 1 (04:22:30):
Yeah, whereas this is actually look at that. This is
such a cool shape. It's one row, two rows, one row,
two rows, one row, two rows, one row. That's I
like that.

Speaker 2 (04:22:38):
We were pretty we were pretty sparing with giving people
goat an eternal damnation. Yeah, like because God internal damnation
would have had a very similar amount of entries if
not us auto putting us in there as YouTube and streamer,
I definitely expect a little bit more. Yeah, there aren't
that many things that are truly good RBG or is

(04:22:59):
in the bottom, so like like to put things in
the same tier. Like when you look at a lot
of these tiers, these things you just read them next
and next to each other and you're like, yeah, those
are the those are like I agree, our tears make sense.
And then like just putting one of them in eternal
damnation is you have to be just such a bad person,
like a bench podcast right, Yeah, that's the worst of

(04:23:21):
the worst. You will not say, Arbie Gear would shudder
at the sight of a bench podcaster.

Speaker 1 (04:23:26):
That's right, all right, Uh, we would normally do like
a patriarch question or something, but patriots content of seeing
us prep these categories and stuff, so enjoy that and
everybody else blow Up. Welcome to the The Tear blow Up.

Speaker 2 (04:23:43):
We'll see it next week because I enjoyed. Holy shit,
no so long, Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (04:24:00):
The

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Ep. 64 - Ranking Every Type of World of Warcraft Player

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 64 - Ranking Every Type of World of Warcraft Player