Ep. 66 - Target Capping is a mess... - The PoddyC

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome to episode sixty six of The Body Sea.
This week, Oracle disc Priest is running rampant through our keystones,
but also it's getting nerve, but also it's not really
getting nerved by that much. Kind of interesting class balance coming. Yeah,
those are the main main things I've been hearing about
this week. Otherwise, it's been kind of a kind of

(00:21):
a slow week here for WOW News, So we'll come
up with some other topics that we'll tell you later
as we come up with them.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
What was your l's impression of the whole Like, I've
kind of just been looking at it from afar, but
the whole Healer, there's been some pretty funny like tweet chains,
like dude, Jack and Elsmere have been going at it.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's been great.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, just just I mean, Ellesmere clearly really unhappy that
there's a healer that's that ope and it's not his
and Jack, I mean, Jack had an amazing meme. I
don't know if you guys saw it. It's like he's
basically just like it's basically like a little kid just
pressing powered shield and then the other one's like I hate
you and hope you die, and like the other person
doesn't even know they're there. That's like, yeah, it's a

(01:03):
I mean, they nerved it today, right, I don't know
how much they nerved it if it's like, ah, is it?

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, from what I've heard, Oracle this priest is still
probably looking to be the best, but it is like,
you know, a pretty substantial hit. But the class was
pretty op to begin with. I don't know if you
guys have experienced playing with an Oracle this priest, but
when you're playing keys with an Oracle this priest, they
showed you for your entire HP bar. Yeah and yeah,

(01:29):
I mean I've been saying it's it's great, right, Like
I've been preaching this forever. I've been saying how like
healers need to feel op and it's fun for everyone.
Everyone's having fun with Oracle dis priests being op except
for the other healers, right, the tanks having fun, you know,
the Oracle priests are having fun except media. But that's like, yeah, well,

(01:50):
I mean you can die still obviously, but like it's
a lot more leeway, you know, when.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
You have one of these in your group, like you're
more survivable and so the keys are more fun to do.
What do you think about of ocre when that was
meta basically the same thing.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, I love, except the problem of a is they're
taking the other DPS's jobs. So it's like, instead of
the other healers being upset, now we have the other
dps being upset, which is like seventy percent of the
player base.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, so twenty the player base. But yeah, non priseteealers,
but who cares about them all the healers? I see.
That is a extremely interesting take that I don't think
anybody else has. So that's very cool. You've got a
one of a kind take there.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
No, I think it's pretty accurate caause I mean, like,
I don't know, like a lot of people have been
enjoying this season. It's been a fun season, like it
owns playing with an oracle, this priest, except like when
I'm watching Ellesmere's Keys and his team is like, I
don't know if I guess I've seen, but it's pretty funny.
It was like a clip of Supreme saying, how like
why are we playing with? I remember what exactly he said,
homes you can find it. But it was a banger. Yeah,

(02:55):
basically he like locally the low key flamed the hell
out of Elsmere for playing.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, I mean it reminds me of BFA people would
if you weren't playing wrestger. In BFA, you would get
people like anytime something went slightly wrong in a key
that the implication would be like, oh, well, if you
just played, this wouldn't be happening.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well, yeah, I mean there's there's two parts of that.
Number one. I remember this happening with Ellesmere before it
was specifically he was going into a necrotic wake back
in shadow Lands and he was asking his team, since
he already had the score on his vent Here Holy Paladin,
if he could log on his Curian Holy Paladin, and
his whole team got so mad. They were like, bro,
just play vent there, and he was not having a

(03:36):
good time about it. But I mean it's like, think about, Okay,
so the people who do Heimatch plus take that shit
really seriously, right, Like it's like their thing, like doing
the highest keys in the world is what they do
for fun, but also it's a competitive thing. Do we
agree with that? Like it's a I think I think so, right.
I know, the end of the season is like the
official rankings or whatever, but I feel like week to
week there's some competition as to like who's timing the

(03:57):
high Okay, so imagine it in the race, which is
also people doing the raid and trying to compete. Same thing, right,
Imagine you go to Mugsy and the other team has
two wind walkers and three misweavers and are pouring out
of every jail and your your group just isn't doing that.

(04:18):
It would totally make sense that the rest of your
raid is like why the fuck? Hey, that looks insane, Like,
while why are we not doing that? Like, we have
the ability to do right, So, if you're doing something
at the highest level, this is not like a low
level farming everyone play your favorite character thing. This is
a high level thing. It is a totally reasonable thought.
If something is so op in a role and your

(04:40):
team that cares about its performance isn't doing it, I
feel like that is completely reasonable as a member of
the team to be like, why are we not doing
this crazy thing?

Speaker 3 (04:49):
So the thing is, I don't even consider oracle dispriase
that ope as much as we've been talking about how
like all massive shields and bestialar YadA YadA yah, because
these guys have been the number one NA team for
the entire season with the Holy Paladin, and the second
highest team is a misweaver. So it's like it's not

(05:09):
the top two teams aren't even playing this priest in
NA at least.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Well is like a recent discovery, right Like, this is
something I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Consider a recent discovery.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
It's been at least like yeah, I mean the pinals
is gonna make is like, you don't you don't need
this priest to be doing these highest keys.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
It's just it's a luxury.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
You know, it's nice to have because normally with healing,
there's like a certain threshold that you need to to
like pass to be able to complete that key with
a healer. Right Like, let's say it's an arbitrary three
point two mil hps, Like if any healer can make
that check, then it's completely fine. The thing is oracle.
This priest just feels so much more comfortable to be

(05:48):
able to like do these types of keys, Like, you
don't need this priest to be doing eight teams right now.
It just it's just nice to have. And a lot
of these players, especially in Ellesmere's, feel like they want
that extra cush you know, if they want that little
extra cushion to be able to feel comfortable while they're

(06:09):
doing these keys.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
I mean, blizzard hat. I understand you and uh, everyone
else are like, you know, don't nerfit because we don't
care if the healing role is like kind of you know,
not made well as long as because like what do
healers do? They keep everyone alive, right, so like you
don't have to worry about the person in the healer
role even being good in your group. If something is
technically strong enough, you just all alive, so you're happy

(06:32):
with that everyone else. That's what I found so funny
is like Ellesmeir was making these arguments like it's not
good for healer balance off, like everyone's gonna want something
that's just sop any other things don't get invited. This
is like the quintessential mythic plus problem. Right when things
are too good, other things don't get invited, right, you'd
rather have things be the same level. And he's one
hundred percent right, by the way, like hopefully no no

(06:54):
reasonable person disagrees with that thing is too strong, or
anytime anything is that strong that it should stay that way,
or things shouldn't be balanced, and the whole like buff
us D three as an example, anytime you want to
say buff everything that's at the bottom rather than just
nerve the singular thing that's really ahead if you want to,
you know, like the elbow three got into like like

(07:14):
trillions and quadrillions of number scaling because of that. Yeah,
but I don't know, I can kind of see it.
People were saying that he was like, well, what did
he say when Ashton was good? Like, I mean, I
doubt he was like as fervently talking about how broken
Ashen was because it was also currently benefiting him. But
I mean, like everyone has their biases, you know, that's

(07:36):
nothing agreed just about.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, he was on the record for saying Ashton should
get nerved back in that expansion as well. But obviously
you're gonna be less I don't even think it's like
less vocal about. It's like you're gonna piss off less
people in your Tweet's gonna get less traction when you
say something like because this is this one gets more
interaction and more engagement because it's not his fact.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
I mean, I don't think he was trying to go
for engagement interaction, like he just exactly would want these
respects to be nerve. But like obviously if his class
was all be you'd be happy about it, but he's
not gonna really go out of his way to try
to get it nerved.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I I think that
first of all, like for high keys, there's always going
to be some best thing, and it's often going to
be true that your team is going to want you
to play that best thing, and if you're playing something
slightly off meta, your team's going to be like begrudgingly
accepting it if you're good enough play it like dorky,
I remember you playing Bear in BFA right where it's like,
I don't know, is this good enough time the keys? Yes,

(08:31):
you know, would nerve? Would a prop warrior nerve have
been something that made you happy on any given week?
Probably also yes, right, Like.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
I think it's one of those things that are like, yeah,
it's reasonable, it's reasonable for there to be a best
thing and for people people will want you to play that.
But I don't know. I feel like something like Oracle disc,
like the way that it makes you safe is so
it's so good that I do think if you leave
it unnerved. You are going to see more and more
of the meta shift it until it's like ninety five

(09:02):
plus percent of the high keys because sort of like
oh right, you sort of realize, like, hang on, this
is just two key levels easier if I have a
big ass shield on me the whole time, and now
none of this kills me. I can screw up and
none of this kills.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Me, is it? Actually? I mean I think that's the
top keys aren't all discs, I mean they all look
like this right now.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, it's just really an atre's not really as much.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, because they hadn't, like it takes time to you know,
force everybody to reroll onto something.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I mean I'm looking at like the All Runs leaderboard,
and it's definitely just like Straight Priest except two Evil's
mirror keys.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
We all Runs always hard to look at because you know,
it's kind of just like the same few people.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, you could look at like Healers by io score
for instance.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Oh that's that's a great example.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
I think that says a whole lot more about the
currency of the game and how it just feels more
fun to play when there's less damage to worry about,
Like it's just when when you're able to stay alive
and when you're not having to over really outlocates resources
to trying to live, it just feels more fun to play.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
I mean, I think to something sound that sue to
some extent if you're not in danger of dying. You know,
A key is.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Less extreme example of that, to where you're doing these
keys and like there's literally zero incoming damage and you're
just trying to do as much damage to beat the timer,
and just the whole staying alive element is completely removed.
I'm not saying that's what it is without an oracle
or whatever, just just the most extreme version of that argument.

(10:32):
That's not fun, right, So like clearly somewhere or wait,
is that not fun? I'm assuming that's not fun. I
want to it.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Would be different. It's like the No Hear you play
right and liked? Did? People like playing No Healing?

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Now No Healer Keys are actually worse, like.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Actually trying to live really hard.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, you're trying even harder to live when you're playing
No Healer Keys, and it is so much worse. People
hate it.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
It's like if you played a healer in the Keys
where you didn't need one, right, Like you remember Legion
when you could play for Walker one Blood Decay, like
if you played the rest of your ad version in
those keys and you're just super chilling.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
I think it's definitely true that it's like this season.
Part of the reason this season has been fun is
that you are dead less, but also Oracle is a
spect that makes you dead less, And I don't know
if that's actually more fun. It's just definitely way better, right,
It's like it's the same as OG where it's just like, yeah,
this is better, you know. Can the key be done
with Holy Paladin? Yes, but it's way harder. Why we

(11:29):
do that to ourselves? Right?

Speaker 2 (11:31):
I think the I mean, one of the reasons that
people think that this season is really good is it's
a you can you can sign up as most classes
and just get invited to like a reasonably high key. Right.
That's and I think the last season that was like
really really good in that aspect was actually like first
season of Dragonflight. It's like the same same thing, even

(11:53):
though that had like a historically bad seasonal affets, but
at least everything was good because like when when when
you look at most people's mythic plus experience. They want
to play their favorite class or whatever, and sometimes that
means you get declined like to fifteen groups before you joined,
and if you played a different class, you get invited
in like the first one or two. And it's just
that easy. That is the mythic plus problem, and you

(12:15):
just need everything to be two in closing. So they
obviously had to deal with it, and uh, hopefully more.
I mean, I don't even know if the nerves mattered, Like,
I don't know if they're gonna like if it's not
going to be because because the thing with Priest too
is like raid busts are a thing you really want,
Mark of the Wild, you really want for it. H So,
I mean Priest already just has such a leg up
over like Paladin for example.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, Altho, Palatin does have DEVOT, which is you.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Know, the hell's a lot better.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yeah, yeah, but the DR is not. It's not it's
also EhP, which is nice.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
But yeah, well they also have a virtue DR. I
don't know if you don't know, but like right now
they can put virtue in on their entire party and
give them six percent DR or something like that. I
don't know how much.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
It is interesting, just has something similar with lenients, right.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, they nurkeed that this season.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
What is the dr the earth?

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, like something else sixty.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
A diva or a pretty much anytime something.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Well.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
No, so they also have something that's extremely broken. I
don't know what it is called exactly, but whenever you
apply a shield, it gives them like fifteen percent DR
while they have the shield. It's pretty insane.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, taken while you have it.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
No, Yeah, it's straight up d R. But I don't
remember how much it is exactly. It's like fifteen or
somewhere around there.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
If it's fifteen percent while you have a shield, that's
like your entire HP bar that is that is, Yeah,
it is. It's a that's like an external another external HP.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Dude.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
That's so insane, but also helps a lot that The
keys are very easy this season. I don't guess I've seen,
but apparently fifty five percent of the keys are ten
or higher, which has never happened before.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Wait, yeah, majority of the keys timed.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Keys of a key's done this week or like you
know how like they have like the weekly reports on.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
The number sounds like so much higher than it would normally. Yeah,
the amountain.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
I was reading something about like there's like hundreds of
thousands of keys above ten done this season above ten, right,
not including ten, and this time last season it was
like four thousand, and it's like hot over one hundred thousand.
That's insane thing.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
I mean, the difficulty is obviously a huge part of that,
but also one thing we've heard is that that people
feel like now once they get with ten, they get
done with their tens, they get the portals, they feel
like the road isn't over and the next level is
accessible enough to where they keep playing, rather than just
feeling like I mean last season especially you hit you
hit that twelve wall and it was just like, well

(14:42):
this isn't for me, right, and then you just stop
playing with the plus. But that that doesn't exist. Now
there's like a pretty linear path forward and I think
that that has probably worked really well.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yeah, there's also rewards beyond tens now, Yeah, what it
was like three K rating.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
The three K rating I think is really important for
I think maybe half okay of the keys above level ten,
I bet half of them would go away if there
wasn't the three K reward.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Half of them. Really, that's a really big number.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
But like if you think about it, like think about
how many people that only would only get into it
because of that push, and then because of that they're
pushing like a bunch of twelves and thirteen's, and like
last season they would there was just no reason to.
I don't know, there's no way to verify this, so
it's just a made up claim, but that would be
my guess is like fifty percent of those keys are
because of the there is a reward that is achievable,

(15:33):
but they can actually go after.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
I was thinking about rad I said, like, oh, this
raid buff is insane for priests. To you, guys, if
you were to rank the most important raid buffs four
dungeons and just ignore the class and speck that comes
with it, but purely the raid buffs, Like what would
be your top five and in what order? Like what's
what's the singular best raid buff for a dungeon?

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Probably Mark with the wild, I would say, just because
it's like it gives damage, it gives healing, it gives
damage production. It's just it's good on everyone, right, how
much do you.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Are, how much do your is it?

Speaker 1 (16:12):
It's one, it's like three.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Like advantage from okay, So all right, all right, cool,
so Mark, which is why you see druids in the
comp all the time? Right, It's a sick gravy. All right,
So what's next?

Speaker 3 (16:27):
I think sky Fury is extremely underrated. Sky sky Fury
is actually insane. Like for on Holy Decay it goes
up to seven percent damage. Wait what Yeah, it is
massive on some specs, like for Pro Warrior, on Holy
dky frost Yk, Federal Druids. I'm not sure what else
there are, but like a lot of specs, they benefit

(16:48):
massively from sky Fury.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
I have another comment about on Holy after this, but
the uh okay, so so sky Fury, what about? What's there?

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Gotta be blessing the bronze, you know, being able to
cast those movement are often is Uh, it's hard to
it's hard to play without it. You know, once you
play with it a little while, you take it. If
you play without it feels like you got like ankle
weights on. It feels like you're RP walking.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah yeah, I actually I'm gonna say the unholy thing
now before we even continue. I think on Holy DeKay
is the single most boring and badly designed good DPS
class to ever be in mythic plus have you have?

(17:34):
You do? You do you play on Holy right now?
You're I know, yeah, I've been playing it. Yeah, actually
that shit sucks. You press like two, but like in
your burst window, I saw a log of someone in
like an a wee burst window literally pressing to two
buttons total for thirty seconds. Yeah, that's insane.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
The thing is a lot of people actually fucking love
on Holy DK right now, which is crazy. I've I've
heard so many comments like, oh my god, Holy so
much fun right now because you know, yeah, it's the
numbers that make it fun. People like they don't give
a shit about a gameplay, like as.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
As that that's so not true. That is just yes,
doing big number is objectively fun. Like if your class
has all the best gameplay in the world, but it's
also topping damage meters, you are having way more fun.
That is true. But saying like oh, I'm loving on
Holy right now and like people don't care about that, bro.

(18:26):
Like just imagine if everyone at like Final Fantasy a
wee where you literally just press an ao wei button
or you have an ao we combo that would people
would fucking hate that, Like people.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
Mean, to be fair, that's a lot of DPS right now,
Like I feel like a lot of DPS specs very
away rotation is extremely simple.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
I'm like, I'm playing I'm playing Windwalker right now, and
that's just like unbelievably not true.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
The like what is definitely not for all specs. But
I would say, like a lot of specs, they become
very simple, you know, like fire Yeah, Volker spam or whatever, Yeah,
and then the boom can you just spam Starfall, Starfire?
What else is there? I don't know about firemange. I
have no idea what Farman just.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Like firem Age just like does its single target rotation
and it just cleans everything.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
You cast flame strike on like five plus or something,
I think. But yeah, it's not like a big difference.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah, I just mean Holy. Like dude, I've played on
Holy and I fucking love on Holy. I've played on
Holy in the past. I watched the pev of someone
playing on Holy and it looks this looks like the
least fun version of on Holy I've seen in years.
So I think the people that like.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
It for the number I do think there's also people
that like it because just Vampiric Strike has a very
visceral sound to it.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yep, that is nice.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
And summoning a big old blood beast and then it
explodes for a lot of damage is also nice. Like
if you are somebody exactly like if you if you
are just farming dopamine off of what your character does
and you're not somebody who cares about your rotations being
fun from a like strategic making good gameplay decisions side,
but you care about it from the sense of like
if I press something I want to see and hear

(20:06):
and feel something unholy? Does that really well this season?
Even though I agree with you the actual like rotation.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah, it feels like an ARPG basically like, yeah, playing
on the Holy k right now is the prime ARPG character.
You're just like going in there, You're mashing buttons and
then you're seeing big numbers light up and it's just
like sometimes you just get an RMG proc that just
like does billions of damage.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
It is massive. Don't mean hude, Okay, I interrupted, Sorry,
the current thing of Unholy is bothering me? Uh the okay,
So Rayves, do you guys think sky Fury is sick
part of the wild was the third one.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
I think it's probably for it for third yeah, just
like I mean, I think it's been more true maybe
in the past, just because effective health pool and like
your ability to live one shots was so much more
relevant than it is in like current Mythic Plus. But
so for an offense, it's maybe chaos brand.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, what is chaos brand now?

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Three three damage?

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Okay, magic damage, which is most damage that most good
specs do. Group I mean you could do arcane intellect
as well, but that also got nerves going into this expansion.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
And then just I mean, yeah, there's some that are
group that are group centric, like for example, if your group,
which I don't think has ever been like a meta
Mythic Plus high key group has been like purely physical. Obviously,
battle shouts insane. Obviously, uh, like Monk buff is insane,
but you have uh those aren't like regularly very good
and even a lot of like battle Shout for example,

(21:40):
is way better than Mystic Touch because like it's going
above all of your melee damage or like a melee
class you can aboff all your dage by five percent,
where not all of your damage is physical. So mystic
touches and is valuable, so battle shouts it's it's funny
that arcanean and like to be on there and battle
shout is and it's basically just because what's usually meta
mythic plus and the fact that it affects healers. But
I mean it also affect your tank, right like your
tan getting battle shoppings you stronger. The uh yeah, is

(22:03):
there any other any other slam dunks or is it
just those?

Speaker 3 (22:08):
Honestly, they're all kind of just like depends on the situation.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Is just boss damage. Traffic poison is just boss defensiveness
and like some random mob defensiveness and you don't even
know like you've got I guess the other rogue poisons.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
I mean, a trophic poison is basically going to be
like devotion aura for yeah, for almost every like it's
going to have one time on every mob and it's
going to basically three point six I think, Yeah, I
mean there's some I'm assuming in dungeons there might be
some environment damage. I think almost all of its sourced
to the ads though, but really, what you The reason

(22:43):
I asked this is I wanted to see, like, you know,
raid buffs are not and rain it doesn't matter if,
like some raid buffs are built better than others because
you can easily bring all of them, and uh well
maybe not as easily anymore, but you can bring all
of them, and how much more powerful one is than
the other doesn't really matter because you're like, I'll take both, please, right,
I won them all in a dungeon. You can't take

(23:05):
them all, so you have to you have to pick.
And it sounds like two of them are way better
than the rest of them, right, It sounds like sky
Fury and Mark of the Wild are like way better
than the rest of maybe four it is closer to
sky Fury.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, but even then, like let's say top top groups,
top keys, Like there's not a lot of Shamans up there. Yeah,
sky Fury is good, but it's the raid buffs aren't
good enough to play a spec for. I would say, like,
I don't think any of the specks that are being
played right now are because of their raid buff because,
like you think about a class's value in raid a

(23:38):
demon hunt, like you have a demon hunter any DPS
beck is doing what like seven percent of your raids
damage any DPS class and then if we've got Chaos
brand and that's a three percent damage increase, right Like,
that's an extra fifty percent of its value, right Like,
you've got one and a half DPS for the first
Chaos brand you're bringing on a on a Havoc DH,
that's more than enough to make up for any swings

(23:58):
in value. But M plus cast brand is only gonna like,
say you're you're a DPS player, you're doing thirty percent
of your group's damage, right or twenty eight percent something
like that. Adding extra three percent magic damage is a
lot of a smaller fraction of that, right, And so
it's not like it's not enough to bring au spec.
Also because an M plus the variance between damage between

(24:21):
the best specs and the medium specs is way more
than it is in raid as well, So one spec
might just do twenty percent more damage than another, and
then it doesn't bring a raid buff, right like on
Holy doesn't bring a raid uff right now, but everybody's
playing one just because that damage is worth and it's
not like we're out of raid buffs, right Like, you
could put a shaman in that spot and they would
bring that sky fury that we think is really good.

(24:41):
But it doesn't it's not worth it, not worth this.
While I want to.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Say maybe, I mean if Skyfury alone was giving two
of your other dps seven percent damage increase, that is
like so fat, like that is worth I mean that's
like you could basically if that was true, you could
argue that, like you, your class is fifty ten percent
better on meters than it shows, which is in a
massive number. So I like, it's probably not that much

(25:08):
for everyone, but it's a definitely definitely we're thinking about it.
Like you said, it's underrated, But do you think it's
a surprise that Okay, have they been good, yes, But
like it seems like when people are making their comps
in the beginning of seasons, they're like, okay, how do
we get a preseinurg rioten here? Right, It's like it's
like those are two things. You just like know the
value of the rape buff and you're like, I want
these things. They also end up being pretty solid anyway,

(25:29):
and people are always going to want to do the
most damage. But you know, Rabusma, yeah, I think whatever
very closely tuned you always look at that, because yeah,
I always look at it for tanks. So when i'm
evaluating a tanks overall damage, demon Unster almost always comes
out on top because of Chaos brand. Like say, I'm
doing two point one mill overall, which is like roughly
what de wnters do nowadays. If your group is doing

(25:52):
like a total of ten mili magical damage, you're doing
straight up three hundred k more deps. But that's a lot.
That's lot to a demon Hunter. But I've been saying this,
I don't think there's one specific quality to a class
that makes it OP because I've heard so many people
saying this before, with say like Priests. They will say like, oh,

(26:13):
Priest is always going to be met up because of PI,
or they'll say demon Hunter tank is always going to
be met up because of their accs, or like prop
Pound is always gonna be meta because of their utility
and all that stuff. And it's like, it's not one
specific thing that makes the OPI, it's their combined package.
And right now these specs currently just have like the
best combined package between their damage and surrobability and utility

(26:38):
and the raid buffs.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
It's definitely true though that there are some specs that
are starting from like the start on second base or
third base when you go into a new season, right
like you.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Have a DRUI is the big one for sure, I
would say, like that's by far the best.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
A prespect Like whatever the best prespect is in any
season is also because you know.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
No, I would argue that, like if this priest wasn't
good right now, you wouldn't play a priest at all,
Like there's no shot you're playing a shattle priest and
keys back classes. Dog shit, I'm sorry, Frank, your class
looks tough.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Break fronk dude.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
For a second, I thought you were apologizing because you
said dog shit, like I should not have cursed on
this on this Plus.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Is a family podcast podcast.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
But but no, it's actually because he plays that back.
Yeah uh okay, so mythic plus man say, okay.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
So I will save a real problem right now though,
is target capping. Target capping makes the game so hard
to balance because they're just making all sorts of weird changes,
like ourcade aage is getting buffed today and that's because
they sucking raid. That's because we're also not target captain
m plus. But like after a buzz, we were gonna
be insane, Like I don't hope he's been playing some

(27:46):
Marcaine and he's been.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Playing dude Dratt knows has been in the in the
keys on on the Arcane Wizard and.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Oh yeah, better watch out for fat. It's it's like it's.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
One of the things where I know I'm not good
at it and I'm doing very good damage on some
poles and that's that's when like, okay, this, maybe sleep
are good and then you see it's getting buffed and
you're like, oh my god, this is Foger's.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yeah, and same with like Boomkin getting buffed and like
red Pounding getting buff. Like all these classes are insane
in them plus, but that's only because they suck and raid.
And then you have classes like Windwalker getting nerved, where
like like Gumwalker is like so good. Yeah, like Wumwalker
is like insane and rates, so it makes sense for
them to get nerved, but that class is hard capped

(28:26):
in them plus, like yeah, Winwalker, that's getting nerved.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
I want to talk about target caps for I like
I don't and I know some people are gonna be
so mad at me for this because they've been like
preaching this for ages and I'm like, you know, Blizzard,
they have they have a plan, you know, like the
I mean I've said this before too, where I just
think it hasn't worked. But like Blizard's initial plan, I
guess for target caps made sense where it's like, you know,
there should be classes that are insane at three targets,

(28:53):
and when you have three targets, they are better than
the uncapped a week classes at that, at five targets,
at eight targets, whatever, and then so not every class
has to be uncapped, and then yeah, when you get
an uncapped situation, those classes shine, But the reality is
the classes that are uncapped also shine at the three
and five. And maybe more importantly is in Mythic Plus

(29:13):
an entire game mode mass auise everything, so like it's
not like one thing, like it's single target and like
mass A, we basically and a little bit of clee
but like mass AA is huge. That's everyone wants to
do big overall. You make every one of your groups
based on your overall that's what happens, right, And I've
become radicalized on this because of Windwalker currently because they're
like hard capped at five. Well it's not literally hard capped.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
But.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
I think some things, well not I don't is when
I looked. I I don't quote me on this, but
I think they're all like damage reduced beyond five. It's
not like the spell literally hits five targets and then
no other targets like some things have worked in the past.
I don't know if it's like square root reduction after
that or like the one where it just does like nothing,
but yeah, it sucks. Like whenever there's a pack of

(29:59):
five mobs or three mobs as wynd Walker, I swear
you would do as much as anyone in Mythic plus,
like it's it's it's insanely good and the timings are
so good. And then you just like do that same
pole with fifteen mobs and you're just getting cranked by
a spec you have never even played with before, like
you've never even seen, and you're just getting just absolutely demolished.

(30:20):
And on every other pole you're just owning them. And
it's like, dude, this is so fucking stupid, you know,
Like they they like the fact that like it's just
it's just basically what they initially set out to do,
and they cap different classes, different targets. They just it
just didn't work. It didn't end up turning out that way,
so everyone should have like at least baseline eight, right, Like,

(30:40):
what is what are the target caps right now? Is
there any class that's purely uncapped, like literally uncapped. I
don't think that exists. I know there's a soft cap
at twenty for almost every spell in the game.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, so there's soft caps of twenty.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Technically there are.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, there are some effects that can that don't respect that,
but almost all abilities are square root scaling beyond twenty.
But then there are some different funny like different specs
are So there are suspects that are just straight up
good up to twenty. I think on Holy is actually
good past twenty still, right.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Because even though they're tratic scaling, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Because they have quadratic scaling on some of their effects,
so it makes up for the fact that some of
them square root at twenty, like they still get more
wounds per target past that.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Yeah, it's many factors. It's wounds, fester my epidemic, right,
blood beast, which stores damage based on amount of targets,
and uh, bursting sores. So's it's literally all of it.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
And then there's a lot of classes that are eight.
A couple of fives, and there's some you know, certain
abilities that are like or certain classes that are weird
on like marksmanship right where it's like marks and ships
of five, but it's also not good at two unless
you talent the thing where you're good at two, but
then you're not good at five.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Okay, But I feel like eight is like most polls
are not that much bigger than eight, Like if you're
if you're capped at eight, you're not feeling like insanely
bad unless you're doing like the old halls of a
tonement pole, you know. But like I don't know, dude,
five is like makes me want to pull my hair out,
Like there's just a very reasonable amount, like pulling more

(32:17):
than five mobs, extremely reasonable even in mythic plus.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
So like I don't know, especially this season, right, like
this season you can pull more because I think like
last season, capped at five wasn't that big a deal
because there were a lot of dungeons where you just
couldn't go bigger than five h except for like a
few poles. I guess even last season we didn't see
target caped classes doing that well though, So maybe I'm
making that.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Up, Like like the thing that just drives me crazy.
Is like, I don't even think when Walkernan's to be
completely uncapped. I think if you made whin Walker go
from five to eight, it would immediately become very, very
fucking good in Mythic Plus. Well though I guess that's
probably not surprising because you're saying they'd be doing like
sixty percent more a damage on most a we PACs.
Is that how that math works? I mean, that's that's
a huge number. So I mean, no, no shit, I guess,

(32:58):
but that uh, the hard care up to five is tough. Yeah,
what is mooncin captat.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
It depends on what it is, but mostly twenty.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, I mean fuck it right? Like why even why not? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (33:14):
I mean Boomkin is like the prime example of this
class is so fucking dog shin Raid, but it is
one of the best suspects in M plus.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Has that happened before too?

Speaker 1 (33:23):
Where?

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Okay, I feel like that's happened more this season. The
class that is just super sick and Raid is unplayable
Mythic Plus and vice versa. Like when when things are
good in Mythic Plus are usually good in raids because like,
do you have bosses where you want Burst a Wee
or Cleve like Survival Hunter, and then that season was

(33:45):
Sick and Raid Blood Decay was Sick and Raid that like, well.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
I mean, to be fair, of those were just straight
up broken right, Like it's they were just like straight
up OP classes. So it was kind of hard to.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying though, Like a lot of
times in Mythic Plus, it seems like what's good or
like op whatever happens to be OP at that time,
with like some mainstays that are kind of good every season.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
Oh yeah, I mean, I guess that's kind of true.
Like right now the game is a lot more balanced
than ever before. So because they're more balanced, their Verir
weaknesses show a whole lot more where like you know,
Boomkin weakness is very single target and doing a low
target spread Cleeve, but Windwalker is the complete opposite. Mm hmm,

(34:26):
speaking of which, I did clear gallyways this week. Oh yeah,
boom can Yeah, Boomkin is not bad.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Oh let's say this, let's say, did you public log?

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Well no, but it'll be all public logs except I'm
sure there's a lot of people who passed me this week. Yeah,
I might kill I was actually popping off. Yeah, Jeff,
like the Yeah, it was a banger.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
How much were you playing Bernardio build for the intermission?

Speaker 1 (34:59):
Dude?

Speaker 3 (34:59):
All right, hold on, I'll I'll shove the boss damage
and stuff. Right, hold on, let's see.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Let's do a little investigation here, because I've seen and
I've seen a lot of trying to beat Prop Warrior
single target boss damage challenge. Yeah, okay, so it's possible.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Keep in mine. I was assigned to hit. Oh you
were assigned to technical Okay, well, but I mean look,
despite that, I still did pretty good boss damage.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Okay, why would you ever assign people to hit those ads?
They don't they just die, They just they instantly die.
Like you could just have second cleve challenge and just
press cleve buttons when they come out and they just die.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
Wall No, but like you have people like Hunters losing
damage because you're inspecting to cleave, right, which, what.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Are you're looking at? Is the bottom on the AD damage?
You have two the technicians you topped boss damage.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
No, no, no, no, the second over all of them boss
damage and then technician damage.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Oh I was about to I was about to be
like you were doing some fucking ship. I didn't top
boss damage, but like you know, it was still.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, you're there in the top few.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Which is if we if we were doing a farm
clear or something and a moon Can was topping boss damage,
it would be all all of us talked about for
like a week or longer.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
Okay, but I mean we can't be talking about boomkins
like that. No, But I mean like if I was
actually hitting the boss entire time, I'd probably be like
third second like this somewhere around here.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
It would be pretty good boss image. Frosty K that's fun.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Yeah, I can kind of bangs now. Well, I feel
like on Holy Deca has been pretty underrated and yeah,
actually has been good damage. Yeah, they've been popping off
on a lot of fights.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
There's some like one arm Bandit logs on Holy Gun
absolutely crazy mode.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Let me see.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Oh yeah, it's like I mean third all specs for
Mythic Winger Bandit. Shadow Burks is still Sick and Raid though,
because like they're always near the top and they're also
just giving p I and p I sick this patch mhm.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Do you think yeah, or like that class fucking stinks,
But yeah, it's good rade.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
What do you think of the one on bad I
have you? You guys did the I know you did
this because we stole it from you. The five five
assistant Stratt instead of the the six.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
I wasn't even here this week Tuesday, so I don't
know what they did. What they do?

Speaker 1 (37:29):
They did? They did five instead of six real assistance.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
What was the order?

Speaker 1 (37:33):
It's like, the first one you do is flame coin,
so it's the it's basically heroic. Yeah, it's flame coin,
and then uh coin shock to get.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Your pilon Yeah, and then and then it's and flame.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Then it's flame bomb.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah, flame bomb, then shot and flame.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
And then shock and bomb or yeah, then shocking bombs yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
And then you just skip coin and bomb entirely.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
Yeah, you don't do coin and bomb, which is like
un you know, yeah, we we would have.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
I mean it's horrifying and it's annoying, but like now
a damage bus, it's kind of chill plus like people
like a wing that's a thing. And then and then
also uh we It's just it's just the way that
mythic works. If it worked any differently, it'd be fine.
You could also come up with a thing where you
did I believe shot and Flame fifth instead of sixth?
And then if you do that you can just have

(38:24):
shot and bomb spawn randomly in the last phase. That's
just like kind of fine, you know, you can just
like play around that shock and bounds are lazy, but
like shot and Flame in the middle is like it
just makes the last phase like probably five times harder.
M what do you guys the new visibility on that?

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Oh? Yeah, they made the coins longer. Dorky, have you
done when our bandit? Since they changed that? Did you
do it this week?

Speaker 3 (38:46):
I only did it on Heroic, but it is noticeable.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, it's so nice.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
I don't know why that. I mean, this is always
something you can say whenever they make a good change.
It's like, why wasn't it like that away? But like
I remember on the very first bull of Mythic one
Armed Bandit, we were like, why do you not see
the whole line? Right? It's just it's too short.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
It reminds me of Answerac web blades where you don't
see them for the entire time that there is a
dangerous zone and it's like one of these few cases
remaining in Wow where some of the difficulty of the
mechanic is just like remembering where the damage is going
to be. And I'm I think that this patch mostly
they mostly represented them going away from that, and it's

(39:26):
weird that one arm bandit had that be the hard
part for so long.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
I think some of it is trying to find a
balance between an aesthetic of a fight versus like practicality
and visibility. You know, like like there's a lot of
coins being thrown and when you double the animation, that
just increases the amount of your screen that's just like
this random blue line and they probably wanted to minimize that,
but you know, I mean I'm biased, Like I'm always

(39:50):
more on the like make the fight as easy to
play as possible thing.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
Yeah, I'm just glad they're doing a lot of mid
season changes Silvan. Ever before we've seen class tuning, raid
design changes or visual changes, and if they have some
like completely random m plus changes of that don't really
get noted. Like just earlier, we were doing a dark
Flame cleft and there was a strategy where people would

(40:17):
use the carts on the first boss to kill all
the ads, and that randomly got hot fixed. So we
were just like doing a key and somebody in my
chat was like, oh, by the way, the thing doesn't
work anymore. We're like, wait, really, there's no way, and
we actually went to test it out and it actually
didn't work.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
One thing I noticed doing a ton of Mitic plus
keys too, is how many of and this is all
like I found this out in like the last week
or two. By doing these, I was seeing all these
old dungeons that you know, the ones they brought back,
like mother Load and all those ones. And there's so
many animations for things that didn't used to have animations.
That is just so goaded and like, if that's the
idea going forward, it'd be great. And then there were

(40:55):
some that didn't have updated animations and I'm just like,
and those stick out, like why the fuck doesn't that
have this awesome, super obvious animation, which is crazy because
literally everything used to be like that, Like Ferven strikes,
you have no idea what the fuck's going on? You
have you have like there's a frontal oh, like you
better like see which way that there's ten mobs in

(41:18):
the pack, by the way, but you better see where
that mob's fucking facing or your head's about to get
blown off now now that's like, you know, the the
norm in this season is there's a very clear animation.
Bizarre's talking about it a few times. It's about matching
the visual of what you see versus the importance. Right,
if there's a if there's a cast that is going
to kill you if it goes off, that cast needs

(41:41):
to look different than like some shitty lightning bolt that
you can kick and is not going to wipe you
if it goes off. Right, Well, sometimes lightning bolts on
high keys will kill you, I guess if they go off.
But you get the point, the uh, and then they
just need to have that match if the if an
ad is gonna cast an awe and like the ground
is trembling around the mom but you know that Aoi's
probably going to rock your shit, right because like visually

(42:04):
it looks like it will. And I think they've just
done a way, way better job at that this season.
I really hope they continue with that, and more specifically,
I think that's the biggest thing they should focus on
when they bring back new dungeons, because like, that is
the number one quality of life that you could add
to these That's like most most issues a lot of
people had with old dungeons, a lot of it is
alleviated with these new animations.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Dude, can you imagine if somebody was being targeted by
a spell and it had like an arrow pointing at
a person, Like, how much more often you'd be trying
to kick or press the defensive? Like imagine if like
a frost bolt was being casted on your random hunter,
if a hunter would probably immediately try to press it
or yeah, or kick that spell. But normally if they

(42:46):
don't see that coming, so they're not gonna do shit.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, that's that's something they could do with the default
you I or some way in the game, because like
you do actually know, like if you've done high keys
in previous seasons, you may have had that week or
a pack that goes around every time like Chinese or something,
and it just it basically just makes a sound if
you're targeted by a shoot or a frost bowlt or
something like that in every path, Like basically the single

(43:10):
target thing that hits you that you don't think about
on a ten, that when you're on a eighteen, it's
going to kill you, right that that thing, I think
you're right, like anytime something like that is that dangerous.
There should be something in the game telling you that,
because if you have that week eura, you know you
you like you, you you know from the sound that

(43:30):
like you're in danger, but there's nothing in the game
telling you that. If you didn't have that, you would
just hear nothing and then just randomly die, you know.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
I mean to be fair of a little, I do
feel like Blizzard might be worried. There's too much visual
noise going on and if you just have a swirlies everywhere,
frontals and the arrows facing a you, it'll probably be overwhelming.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah, that's a lot, see a lot.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, And I they just want the game to look good, right,
And there's always some tension between, like, you know, like
wild Star, for instance, just had big old telegraphs for everything,
and it's like that's a different look than Wow has.
And some people love that.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Some people prefer that the that the fight looks like
shit if it just means that everything is very clearly
communicated in what's happening to you. But obviously Blizzard wants
their game to look good.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
I think both right, Like, it just looks good and
you can see this Whirley is in the raid, this year, Like,
that's that's great. We didn't have to choose, we could
have them both.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
I'm trying to watch an old wild Star raid right now,
but I swear I feel like the game's already gone
to that point kind.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Of where there's a lot of telegraphs and stuff.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Yeah, I played it for a good bit.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
I didn't really like even if you did, like a
if you thought an elite out in the open world,
it would have like like a frontal arc pizza slice
cone that it would It would show you.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Bro, if you want to see what a wild Start
raid looks like, just look up any Final Fantasy raid
that is not Savage or Ultimate difficulty, So any of
the ex trials or any of the like normal aids.
Like basically part of the bit of Savage and Ultimate
is that the redicals are removed, so if you go
in those other difficulties you can, like the boss does

(45:08):
basically full ass wild Star Like there's a big cone,
like you just see the cone.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
Okay, So I mean I'm looking at this gameplay right now,
I feel like it's not too different from what Wow
is now.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Dude, did you know that I was in on every
single pull of progression on this boss except for the
day we killed it. This this uh this video you
just linked, is this your guild? Uh No, this was
so we were no life losers. That was our guild
in like the Genetic Archives, the previous rate, I think

(45:40):
we got like World fifth or something. It was just
like an amalgamation of people from different Wold guilds and
we rated like four nights a week, and this was
the like day rating guild. They like rated every day Enigma,
and then we merged with them to do Data Escape,
which was the raid that came out after Genetic Archives
and it went Genetic Archives was twenty Man and then
the very next rated to release was Man. So they

(46:01):
made you just merge your guild with an entire other guild,
and as you would probably imagine, that just was fucking
terrible almost every time, and that was certainly the case here.
The vibes were really bad and also which was super
iconic this boss and he's just like, sorry, this is
a huge departure from what you just posted in why
you want to.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
That's what the people love.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
But this boss was a split fight. There was like
one demon on one side and one on the other.
So like the way we split it up, was like
all right, our guild will go on this side and
their guild goes on that side and literally go in
different discord channels, and like you, I guess like each
guild probably had a different idea of like who was
actually holding back progression and shitting it was super good.

(46:39):
And then and then like as as a wad was
coming out, this was in mop Farm or like cig
Borgomar Farm, like more and more people stopped and they
had to replace us. So like I think Preheat from
our guild was the only person I think who stayed
all the way through the kill. Maybe there was another person,
oh zelo It as well who was in Limit for
a while. Corow probably know that name. He's in like

(47:01):
one of the Wild Girls, but I think he came
from a Nike my maybe. But yeah, yeah, there was
twenty of us in there, like including true Fire, and
like all these people and then they all we all
just quit. And then I specifically wasn't here this night
because I had a challenge about sale stay Big.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
How which money did you make come out?

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Probably a ton, I don't know, usually made like two
hundred three hundred bucks for a challenge about sale it
was the fucking and it took like two hours. And
when you were in college and you could you could
do something for two hours. You could game with your
boys for two hours make three hundred bucks. Holy moly,
that was the that was Those are the days. Man, God,
I love r MT, I do, I do. I wish

(47:37):
I wish you could still do it. I wish I
wish the the like you could. Blizzard knew u RMT
because they had like members from these guilds who worked
for QA for them, like they just one hundred percent
new was happening but didn't punish it for a really
long time. If that era lined up with the like
Blizzard sponsor era, Man, what a like like having the

(47:58):
like the fancy private chef in the and the and
the sponsors and the orgs and stuff that and the
rm T same time no punishment, Holy moly, what time.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
It's like the people who, uh, we're boosting in PvP
games like Lead of Legends, they make so much money.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Yep, amen to that. Those were the days when you
could do that. Uh we were you gonna say, you're
you're mentioning like the radicals here right? Yeah? I feel
like it just looks kind of like what Wow has
going on? Oh you're seeing like the new swirlies just
being defined and then more animated, just looks more. I
would say. One thing that makes that a little different
is like the swirlies look like the spells. If you

(48:38):
look at every single one of these telegraphs, they're just
all the same.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Right, Well, it wasn't it an option? I don't remember
if it was an option or not.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
I think there was color blind options that just changed
the color, but I think I think it was all like, uh, like,
his settings right now are just like all healing ones
you want to look at are green and all damaged
ones are red. But I don't think they would change.
They'd be the same. You could make them like orange
and stuff, but they would just all be orange. Was

(49:10):
extremely back, by the way. Yeah, I'm just looking at
it like random bostar veels. Do you know what's funny too?
This boss was like mechanically so so simple, But this
this boss took forever to kill. This boss looked like
two weeks to kill. It took a long time. This
is one boss like the first boss in that raided,
but so much of that was forty people, so much
of that was uh uh, just people not being very

(49:34):
good back then. This was like the world first Guild.
But I mean it was just like, I mean, there
was just all kinds, just the most insanely bad mistakes,
random All Star departure, shoutout wild Star and you anyone
in the chat played it? Game owned?

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Yeah, banger? Oh yeah, I know what else do we have?

Speaker 1 (50:00):
M you guys want to do the Patreon question now?
And then a little.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Spark maybe a little spark something, Yeah, maybe a proper
discussion off you what a fucking tangent that just totally
killed our podcast.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
No, the people love the tangents. They love the tangents.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
It's just gone.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
All right, let's go, let's go Patreon Question time. This
week's Patreon question comes from Liam p and he says,
hello podcasters, long time listener, time caller. Here. The world
is a little weird these days. With that said, do
you guys have anything positive you want to share, anything
keeps you going in these trying times? Or are you
just fueled by the need to produce a better podcast

(50:40):
than the bench. I know this isn't the usual type
of question y'all would get, but I hope you'll get
around to answering it anyways, Pod blow Up.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
What an interesting Patreon question.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
First, I feel like it's all in your head because
I don't know. I'm like, I'm completely ignorant.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
So ignorance is placed, you know how they say, like,
dumber you are, but happier you probably are. The smarter
you have.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
A part more definite.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Yeah, yeah, So I feel like I don't know the
worlds If you're just saying you're dumbest and you're loving it, well, no,
but I'm just saying I'm a happy person. That's all
I'm I'm just saying that, Like, but world feels the
same to me. I mean I'm like, yeah, sure, maybe
if you're in like certain parts of the world, it
might be like ah fuck, you know, like you're in
some rough times and that definitely sucks. But I'm completely

(51:27):
ignorant to it, So it's the same to me.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
I mean, there's a lot of like stuff in I mean,
we're all Americans, so like there's a bunch of shit
going on in politics and stuff. I don't know if
that's exactly the referencing. It's kind of just everywhere is
it just seems tough but I mean even with a
lot of stuff like that, you can hear about like
all this like, oh this is gonna be so bad,
But for most people, even if you're really knowledgeable on it,
it's just like gonna take you trying to order some

(51:50):
shit online and the cost of this thing you normally
cost you normally buy is just three times more expensive.
Is that's when you're gonna become radicalized, Like what the
fuck is going on?

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Right?

Speaker 2 (51:58):
But but all this talk about that might happening, uh,
isn't going to resonate with a ton of people until
it actually happens to you. And as far as anything
positive to share, I have one. If any of you
guys are on Twitter dot com, you gotta get the
fuck out of there, man. I like, I I think
every second of my life that I'm on Twitter is
bad and and it makes my life worse and and uh,

(52:22):
and I have to have it for my job. And
I wish I was strong enough to just not even
care about that maybe and throw away the income and
just uh and just be done with it. But like
that's that's my that's my like happiness. Tip of the
day is that, like, unless you're one of those people
who's really smart and curates the fuck out of their
Twitter to just be like really relevant news for like
things they care about, which is what it used to

(52:43):
be great for. And somehow you don't get like all
the culture war nonsense spewed under your feed, Like I
know everyone I know has then like maybe you're chilling,
but like, just you gotta Twitter is just not good
for your health.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
I love Twitter, I love going on Twitter. It's dud,
It's great, but I don't want to be like all
this stuff. They're just like, you know, people are flinging
poo around and you're like, oh my goodness, that is
so cool and entertaining.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah, like the person you are right, Like some people
like seeing all the ship unfold. Yeah, but like, okay,
I agree with that, like I do sometimes like and
this is the part that has made my Twitter shit
is like I will want to see people throwing the
poo around, so I click on the tweet to see
that happen. But then Twitter's like, oh, he likes this,

(53:34):
and like, I guess that's what I'm telling you because
I'm clicking on it. But that's because at that moment
I want to go to the zoo I want to
go to the zoo. In that more, I get okay, okay,
but do you Okay it's okay to want to go
to the zoo, but no one wants to go to
the zoo every day.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
I do. I love the man, it's so good.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
I want to go to the zoo like every now
and then, you know, like every like give me some
dumbass fucking culture war thing and then I'm in. I'm
just gonna read all the people trying to change each
other's minds and they're never ever going to do it.
But like every day, man, it's just it's it starts
to be like this is the only thing happening in
the world, you know, and it sucks so bad.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Yeah, look, it's like that relationship with social media is
definitely like most people can probably become a lot happier
by getting off of it. But also I'm special and
if there was a zombie apocalypse, I know, if I
got bit, it wouldn't affect me because I'm different. And
it's the same with social media.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Holy shit, you stroll it's pretty bod I'm just.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Built with different materials.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
I don't know to tell you honestly, say, man, if
I get the bit by Zombie.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
You know it is what it is? Fuck?

Speaker 1 (54:43):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Yeah, that's pretty awesome. I was like looking at francs
notes about this episode, like what we talk about Bostner's
only always says only fangs dead. Does that Does that
mean anything to any of you?

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Uh? They died and then because there was the d
das stuff, right, and they lost all the characters, and
then Blizzard like reversed their long held rule of we're
never going to fix the hardcore character dying and they
changed their to like, okay, well resid if it was a.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
Rules, which I mean it made sense right, like if
it was Blizzard server problems, like you should obviously revert it.
And if it's like personal DC problems and I mean,
you can't really like do anything about that.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
Yeah, but Frank said this two days ago. I'm assuming
that's like an update, like yeah, maybe they've done since
then they came back to life and then also Super
died again.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Well no, I mean it's just like it's over, right,
Like if they've already hit the end of of course
they've done BWL, there's not much else to do, so
they've kind of called it quits oh cool. Although one
thing that's been really cool on classic side about I
forgot to mention is the new raid Scarlet.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yeah, Scarlett onn came out last night. Was it cool?
Started watching it? And then I there was no one. Dude.
If there was like even a bunch of my raiders
who had like a guild or like if Echo or
like people I could remotely relate to that I knew
were like retail problem solvers, I would be like so
locked in. But just everyone that I saw doing it

(56:09):
either was like had their comms muted and they were
like competitive team and like, oh they're coms are muted.
That's not fun. And then or it was just like streamers,
you know. So it's like I don't really care about that.
So I kind of lost interest, But I hope was
it hard? Was it cool? Did they clear it?

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Apparently it's like pretty overtuned, But it's overtuned the sense
of kind of like you know what you were saying
about wild Star, Like it's just a shit on the
players who probably don't really care how much about, you know,
perfecting the raid. They're just like showing up and they're
just getting absolutely shit on. But I mean it is
really cool that this is the first raid they've made

(56:44):
that's like completely original, completely classic. It's not like some
brought back raid or dungeon.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
I don't know that.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
That's pretty awesome.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yeah, that is awesome. It's like there's any single thing
to drag me into classic, it would be that. Then
it seems like that has not happened, so unfortunate. Yeah,
I'm looking at it now. Only one team is full cleared.
I think that was the thing. When I was trying
to watch it, it was really hard for me to

(57:15):
actually like pay attention to it because I was asking
my stream like, guys, this sounds awesome. Who's like the
echo and liquid of season of Discovery? Like who can
I watch to like see the cutting edge content? And
they just couldn't give me a straight answer. They were
just like watch Zaru and it's like I don't. I
don't want to do that, you know, So like like

(57:36):
I'm trying to see but like like all the top
teams either don't stream or they have their comms muted.
So it's just immediately like I can't watch this. Very sad.
But I don't know if there's like dedicated like really
huge gamer season of Discovery people. You know, I don't
know if that's like a market.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
I don't think it really is. Yeah, I just think
that type of player doesn't really go to season Discovery
and large enough numbers to form like raids there.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
Well, I also don't I also think that kind of
player is someone who appreciates the challenge of a wow
depspec and like, you're just way more likely to not
find that in Classic than you are in retail.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
I mean, I do know Alice has been super into
and a loves Classic. Yeah, he's been, like, hasn't he
been trying to get your entire guild to like play.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
The game every single match? Yeah, he fucking loves Classic.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
I got to fear those of my GUILDXT.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Do you have some of those in your guild? Door?
Ky any Classic?

Speaker 3 (58:35):
I mean it's kind of yeah, but if you're more
like CATA gamers than ath, a lot of them have
been playing SLD two.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Okay, I'm looking at the timeline of this is Balandazar
the last boss?

Speaker 3 (58:50):
I have no idea that's the first one.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Yeah, Okay, so I'm looking at times here, so I
don't know exactly when it released, but at two twenty
pm someone got the first killed Balanazar. I think that's
twenty minutes, right, twenty minutes after it came out. I
think it came out at two, okay, and then it
took them an hour and twenty minutes to kill the
second boss. This is the best team.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
I heard the second boss was the overtuned just one,
That's what I heard.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
A interesting yeah, I mean so just looking at it,
it took like almost everyone killed the first boss within
the first like twenty to thirty minutes at least, all
these top teams. And then for the second boss, this
the like number one guild killed it in like an
hour and everyone else killed it in like three hours.
And it's the second boss. So like you're talking about overtuned,
that sounds like something that's probably pretty. But then let's see,

(59:39):
it took them another hour to kill a third boss.
It took them exactly one hour to kill the fourth boss,
and then it took them Okay, now I'm interested, Wait
can you kill them in different orders? I'm very confused
now I think you must be able to kill them
in different orders because I looked at the the U

(01:00:00):
the fourth boss, and then they apparently killed the fifth
boss an hour before they killed the fourth boss, so
I don't know, it's something in there and then and
then ooh ooh, ooh ooh, okay it went crazy style.
There's one that's crazy. I don't know if they went
to bed, but reborn Council the third to last boss
died at eight fifty am, so I don't know. Like,

(01:00:20):
for example, I don't know if like Season of Discovery
has like a let's stay up all night, let's play
for twenty four hours in clar of the season Discovery,
I don't know if it's that deep. Yeah, like they
would do in other similar kind of content, like in
Final Fantasy where it's like kind of a blitz and
then it took them an hour to kill the seventh
boss and then five hours to kill the end boss
for the only girl that's killed it. I mean, that's
definitely like real content, and I think that's super interesting,

(01:00:44):
like Blizzard deciding to make something like that because you know,
you can only make hard content if there's people there
to enjoy it. Where Like I think some of the
issue with the classic audience in general is I mean
people have said this for years, like why do people
appreciate classic ratings as like a why would you per
for that over retail rating? Well, people like that you
can do the hardest content that gives you the best
loot and it's not insane, you know, it's like it's

(01:01:06):
much more reasonable, and it seems like this doesn't seem
super easy. So it's it's like it's kind of like,
what audience are you going for? Are you trying to
make like cutting edge, hard rate content, because you know,
it's kind of hard to do that when retail already exists.
So it's it's it's like like a I wonder, I
wonder if that's their design intention.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
I wonder if they're gonna, like, I wouldn't be surprised
if there were some heavy nerves coming to this braid
and like next three set or something. That would be
my guess because I think that there may like some
of these teams might be getting a lot out of
this being this hard, but I bet that the majority
of people would like that second boss and those other
bosses that are like brickwalling people to not brickwall anybody.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Yeah, So the what's you McCall it? The ion of
classic agrind you know, he has an agron yeah, he uh,
he made a blue Sky about difficulty of the raid.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
See, I can't. I can't do blue sky. People are
too happy there, there's not enough like hatred.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
It's so funny that Drattnos's Twitter persona or not persona,
but like how he appreciates Twitter is different than the
rest of his entire wholesome like upbringing entire personality.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
It's that's where the mask slips.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Yeah, Twitter is when the mask comes on.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Okay, but look at the posts he made. It's kind
of interesting watching a lot of the back and forth
about raid being too hard if you are a few
things to consider, did.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
You post it so?

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Yeah, so I didn't see that. Sorry, and.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
You can put it up to you want to put
it up.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Yeah, Frankle do that. He loves doing that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Yeah, basically all that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
I mean, yeah, I mean it's like it's like part
of the difficulty if you're looking at it just on
the first day, is like no one's had the ability
to prepare for this and it's all completely brand new.
I mean, like look at Gallewick's right, like it took
us one hundred polls versus Echoes fifty that you know,
I like to think we're as good or better than Echo.
So it's there's a decent amount of time that goes

(01:03:07):
into like just figuring out something news, so that is
gonna be part of difficulty. Like for example, if all
the gills that you're worried about the skill part of it,
they're like, they don't want this be super hard. If
they have a kill video from the top guild and
see what they do, the content could have could actually
be like twice as easy as it is right now.
But that just that information isn't there, and that's kind
of cool. It's a different way of having difficulty.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Yeah, this is very interesting. Actually I would love to
watch like a like a video explaining why these bosses
are hard as well.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
You know, Oh there's another thing. So it's like the
second point of this post, the gear in Scarlett Quave
is dramatically better than next gear. By the time you
get your A out of eight set, you'll do between
twenty five and forty percent more damage. At full Biss
you were doing fifty percent more damage. So full Biss
is probably not the the thing, but like tuning the
content to be difficult for the gear that it drops

(01:04:05):
like kind of makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
So basically be like trying to go in with no gear.
It'd be it'd be like, what would what would happen
if you went into a retail Wow mythic rate without
doing any splits, just like fucking patch drops and just like,
let's fucking get it time to game. You know you'd
get you you just you wouldn't be able to do
enough damage.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
You would kill one boss and then you know, you'd
you'd don't struggle with the rest with the second in
the world, which is like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Kind of exactly what's happening in in in Enclaves.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
So yeah, well, except there are people that have cleared
it because it's not that hard. It's not as hard
as Wow myth as retail mythic.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
That's actually interesting though. If there were no difficulties, you
couldn't do splits, right m hmm. Never really thought about
it that way. Yeah. Like the thing is, it's like, okay,
if you were to ask like, well, why does Blizzard
make really really hard retail mythic content, Well need to
get something out of it. The race world first is
this thing, and they get like the big, big marketing

(01:05:02):
of publicity, so they have some incentive to make it
hard other than like just guessing their intentions of hey,
we want there to be really really hard, challenging content
in our game. But I just wonder how many people
actually want that from Season of Discovery, like as far
as them, because like they're saying all these things like, hey,
you're gonna get better gear, it's going to become a
lot easier. You guys haven't seen like guides for it.
There's no ptr You're having to like do it, Natty.

(01:05:24):
It's like all this it's really hard, and they're right,
but like I wonder who is there to gain? How
many how many teams are you even making it for
that it's like even a challenge initially, you know, it
could definitely be a thought.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
Yeah, So Agrin did post on this Reddit thread and
he said reception that I the ion of of Discovery
classic producer.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
As long as you said he's this game's ion, I
get it. We're here. I'm yeah fucking all in.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
You're seeing how it is divisive of Oh but uh yeah,
I mean it hasn't been too bad. So it seems
like it seems like the receptions okay, just obviously something new.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
So yeah, he just described it an interesting way. Honestly,
the reception isn't even negative and aggregate. It is divisive, though,
and this thread was me mostly speaking to that. Here's
what he said. I truly feel that this rate in
its current form requires you to stretch a muscle that
a lot of people haven't stretched in a while or whatever,
and that's uncomfortable for some. And then it says next sentence, hell,

(01:06:30):
I haven't stretched that muscle in a while myself. It
is guy odes Bro, what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
I mean, why does the ion post thought vis like
Reddit threads that'd be awesome stretch like yeah, I mean, well,
it's just like you know about like random stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
What is he saying by that? Is he saying the
muscle that you haven't stretched is having to figure out
a boss that you haven't seen a guide for.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Yeah, just like doing a hard boss even maybe right, Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
Mean more so in classic right, because the classic players
are just playing the same content over and over, but
now they're receiving something completely new for the first time.
I mean, he even goes into it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
And then one thing he says too, when we were
trying to say who they're making this content for this
is what he says. One thing I kind of compare
this to is two thousand and six. Next, it's aspirational
in the same way we've not had anything like that
in any version of Vanilla Classic. And I think we'd
be leading something on the table if we didn't try
it at least once.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
I love that answer. Yeah, yeah, I Basically anytime they
give an answer that's like, hey, we want to try this,
I'm immediately on board with whatever they're saying, as long
as it's not like lying and something they've actually tried before.
But he's right, they really haven't, right, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Yeah, yeah, I wonder if they're con see doing this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
Yeah, I think it's cool. I I'm glad they've tried it.
Even if people end up not liking it. My money
is still on it gets sizable nerves in the next
thing that's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Gonna get sizable. And then and then you have to
ask yourself the question if you had to immediately nerve
the entire raid was trying to go in with having
the raid be super difficult, worth it? Which is I mean,
like you said, they'd like to try and fail rather
than yeah, yeah makes sense. Also, do you guys know
how many people are playing that shit? How big is
the old season of Discovery Season six? Any feelers out there?

(01:08:10):
I know none of us are real classic andies, but.

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
Yeah, I have no idea. It feels like there are
a lot of people playing, but nobody's really talking about it.
That's kind of been my vibe. Like I have friends, yeah,
yeah exactly, I have like friends who are logged into
it daily. I have like people on my battlenet that
i've like I used to do keys with. They're playing
in you know, like guilties and stuff, but nobody's like

(01:08:36):
really talking about it, So I'm not too sure.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
All right, I don't have guilty check check okay, yeah
check that shit one, two, three, four five?

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
How do you check? What a game mode they're playing?

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
It just says I'm not looking at the icon it
like so like Lip is playing it right now. I
think a few of our players are playing it actually,
but like Lip is playing it, and it says his
name and as the WO icon to the right, are
you in game?

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
That's why.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
And also in the client.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
Bing a client is the movie, you just look on
the right and then it'll it'll say, uh, exactly, wow,
Classic Season of Discovery under their name.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Yeah, I got like no guilties in there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
I have at least twenty people on my friends listed
season of Discovery right now.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
That's a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Yeah, some of them from my guilt some random people
that I have on here. I don't know these people.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Yeah, it looks a lot less popular, and among my
friends listen is a lot less popular than Cataclassic.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
It looks like, oh interesting, Yeah, I see some Cataclassic
on here too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Interesting indeed, All right, what.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
Else did Frank put on here? He put Max been gaming,
Dorky beIN gaming, great topics. Frank, he's a class balancing
in general. We did that, he said, you put down tariffs,
all right, fuck it, let's get into it. Yeah, we'll
save that for the Patreon. If you guys want to
hear all of our detailed opinions on tariffs, make sure

(01:10:10):
to uh tune right in. Then he rips what makes
a patch good?

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Okay, I will say there are things that are happening
this patch, Like Dorky said that, there have been some
abandoned patches in WAW's past, and there have been some
patches that come out pre abandoned, and it looks like
eleven point one is not an abandoned patch. Like they're
doing a good job of tune and shit and fixing things,

(01:10:39):
and it also encouragingly eleven point one point five is
also getting some of that treatment. I don't know if
you guys saw this, but the corruption effects were looking
turbo dogshit for the longest time, like for the last
two weeks on PTR, and I was getting a lot
of flashbacks to previous like mini patches where something comes

(01:10:59):
out on PTR it looks kind of interesting, the tuning
is awful, It launches like that, it never gets fixed
or gets fixed away later and like wamp wamp right,
like that is a story that five different patches in
WAW's history could could be described by that. And this
time around, they've they've like prefixed corruption, so the coruption
effects have already today, they've they've like patched all of them.

(01:11:22):
They've buffed all of them except for void Ritual, which
they nerved and they you know, fixed like issues with
various The biggest problems with them isn't in a perfect spot,
I doubt it, but like to me, that is one
of the biggest things that makes a patch good is
the actual Yeah, exactly, like them not abandoning it, which.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
They are making a ton of like class balance and
dungeon changes and things like that, like Dorky was saying earlier.
So I guess yeah, what makes a good patch is
them continuing to work on it and not just shipping
it and moving on to the next one. That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Uh, he said, what's your favorite season of Wowever? Why
and where does this rank? That's a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Okay, that's a good question.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
So what's your's favorite season Wow? I gotta think about this.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
I mean it's like a kind of slammed donkeasy answer.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
Well, but when we talked about this before, Dorky, I
think we tier listed all of the Wow seasons, but like,
but this isn't necessarily tear listing them as a group.
It's kind of like a personal answer, like when when
what season I guess was your favorite to play? And
that could even not even be the best season. It
might just be when you had the most fun, And

(01:12:30):
it could be like most people's first season when they
play Wow. You know, that could just be like this
golden era where you're just like, Wow, everything is great.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
What if there were no seasons back when you first played.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
There were you just they weren't call it whatever patch
you like the most.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
Yeah, I mean I feel like the easy answer would
be to just say BFA season four, But if I'm
not gonna include that, I'm gonna say probably season one
legion hm hm.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:12:59):
As much people hated it, it was also just like
so much fun having everyone long. It felt the most alive,
It felt the most like an MMO.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
It was like collegian seasons felt like that to me.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
I mean the first one in particular, like you're like
the whole from the beginning, like everyone leveling up, getting
the artifact weapons, discovering your class hall, doing your weeklies
to try to get the cash for a legendary spamming
m plus just like everything about that season with the gyms.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
Yeah, it was so arcano crystal no arcano, crystal inspect
somebody tightened for its arcano crystal, break your mouse, break
your keyboard.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
Okay, that I never understood, Well, why does it bother
people so much?

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
If someone else, just like some random dude has like
a tightened forged l frpiece, Like does that really bother people?

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
Bothered people alive?

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Yeah, In fact, it bothered people so much that a
lot of people that it didn't happen to got really
upset by the idea that they knew it could happen.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
Is this like the same as the whole boosted argument.
Remember how you guys were saying, how like, oh uh, like,
why does it matter if someone gets boosted to myfic
rate and gets full myfic loot. That's like essentially the
same shit, right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
Yeah, I mean it's it's I guess a little different
if it's like RNG versus uh, you know, swipe your
credit card. But I'm not saying that I was bothered
by it. I'm just saying people were bothered by it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
A lot of feeling people don't like. Yeah, the fact
when you said first season of Legion, it made Okay.
I asked people recently this about shadow Lands, and I
was like, my stream, what was your most favorite part
of shadow Lands? Every single message? The beginning of shadow Lands? Uh,
you know, Castle Nathri, all the other shit. Okay. I

(01:14:45):
asked people your favorite time of Legion, Oh, the beginning
of Legion. That's also when like everyone's mad in both
this fans like, like the beginning of shadow Lands had
shitty ass fucking covenants, Like covenants got way better later,
and that's that was all everyone And it had like
conduit energy and all that shit, that's all everyone talked about.
And then at the beginning of Legion, this legendary system

(01:15:07):
is so shit. Like statistically most players like seventy eighty
percent plus in the beginning of Legion did not loot
their best legendary and was actively mad that they didn't
have it and someone else had it, and it was
this huge thing. Everyone talked about it. There needs to
be a fucking vendor if they bring this back, there
has to be a vendor. Just so mad. But if
you ask people in their favorite time and play Legion

(01:15:27):
and it's like beginning of Legion, you know, And I
just I just find that those two things extremely interesting
that the most problematic parts of the expansion are also
Buple's favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
I will say with Shadolands, I don't think it was
the I think the systems made a good raid worse,
but it was still such a good rate that people
like that time in Shadle Lands.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
No, I don't think it was a raid in particular.
I think it's because of the amount of people that
were playing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
It's more about right, Yeah, the COVID. I mean that
makes both if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Right, Yeah, Like I but I think that I think
the beginning of Shadowlands would have been better if covenants
were fixed. But I actually do think that the beginning
of Legion, the systems were like people have valid complaints
about Legendaries, but they were a lot of the feel
like a lot of the reason why everybody was logged
in for eighteen hours a day playing Legion was because
the Legendaries created a really effective hamster wheel that we

(01:16:17):
all wanted to run on.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
Yeah, we were talking about this. Oh no, we weren't.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
We weren't talking about that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
We were not talking about this recently.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Yeah, that's right, and that's.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
It, say miss Hunstan, No, you know what we're talking about.
It's fine. Everything's great. Oh okay, oh I see No
you don't, No, you don't see anything. Dude, fronctionould actually
leave all of this in. That would be so good.

Speaker 3 (01:16:48):
But well, I mean, I don't know what it is,
but I know what it is, like, you know, like, yeah,
I know, I know, dude, it's fucking I know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
You know that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
Yeah, but oh no, as in, like, I know you
guys know what it is, but I have no idea
what the hell it is, by noel, Like, but what
you guys are talking.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
About, they don't know that. You don't know what we know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, Yeah, And that's it. It's been a
it's been a good good potty c later, potty yeah,
potty goodbye.

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Ep. 66 - Target Capping is a mess...

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 66 - Target Capping is a mess...