Ep. 69 - The Dratnos & Dorki Power Hour

Hello friends and enemies of the PoddyC Podcast. This Week Dratnos, Dorki, And Max are back to talk a little bit about a bunch of stuff. like how dinars are somehow causing a civil war in the world of warcraft community. how 11.1.5 has seemingly caused a massive uproar in the community and all that drama around it - hope you enjoy!


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome to episode sixty nine of The Potty c
where Nice no Max. This week Max is on vacation,
but we are here anyways, talk all about the exciting
news that I didn't know anything about this until it
was announced that that interview video. But they're adding a
one button button rotation through Wow.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Uh So I feel like it's mostly faceted. There are
there are so many different discussion points here. So the
first one has been about the complexity of the game,
and I think the second one would probably be about
accessibility and just like a couple of other topics that
we can go into for this specific one button rotation

(00:50):
thing that's going on. So I don't know, I mean
like I felt like whatever, right, I was like, it's
not I mean, who cares. But at the same time,
I feel like this is one of those things where
Blizard's probably gonna miss on what it should accomplish because
they've done a lot of things like this in the
past where they've tried to come up with something and

(01:11):
it just doesn't really hit the mark. Like I have
so many questions for this, like, for example, how much
DPS should this be doing, how much better players or
how much better should players be or like how do
you even account for certain rotations? Certain rotations, Like there's
no shop going to be able to do this right,
like arcade aage where you have to like react to

(01:33):
PROCs or tanks and healers, Like how do tanks and
healers have a one button rotation?

Speaker 1 (01:38):
So it's pretty bad for healers, it just does damage. Yeah,
for tanks. It's also I mean, you're just definitely not
great for non DPS. Yeah, it's really just for DPS
facts that I think it's kind of it will be
okay for Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
So I mean like if you were to give like
a percentage, like a percentile of like what or how
good this perform, what would you say it is?

Speaker 1 (02:03):
So it's it's weird because there are reasons you don't
want it to be too high, But then the lower
it is kind of the worse that people usually get
are going to feel.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Right, Yeah, And at that point it's kind of like
why does this even exist? Right?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
So it's got a point three second GCD penalty associated
with it, which is inherently like an you know, eighteen
twenty percent nerve. It changes a little bit depending on
haste and depending on whether your spec is a one
point five second haste scaling GCD or if you have
a one second flat GCD, which some specs have one,
some specs have the other, but either way, so that's

(02:36):
a big nerve, right, and that that's a number that's
been changed as well. Initially it was only a point
two second penalty, but they nerved it on the version
that actually came out in PTR. But when they were
first talking about it in that interview with me at MAX,
they were planning on it being a point two second GCD.
So I think they don't want it to be too
close because and I think it's good. I don't think

(02:56):
you want this to be too good because you don't
want people to ever have it be the right choice
to use it if they don't want to, right, And
that would be like that would suck, Right if you're
everyone a spot where your raid laders like, hey, just
use the one button rotation so that you can focus
on doing mechanics on this fight, I think that would

(03:18):
be very unfortunate, thing.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Would say a lot of players, So like, what would
that be?

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, so you've got to factor in that it's not
just the nerve of the penalty but also just like
how much worse it is at doing a rotation.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Then like, yeah, that's what I don't really understand. It's like,
so if it's supposed to like do the optimal rotation,
then it's just gonna be really good. Right, It's just
gonna be like say it's gonna do Say, it's gonna
be a sim It's gonna be like a raidbot.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Say. It's just like if it did SIMDPS, it would
still be again like twenty percent behind because of.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Right, But that's so insane, is it? Not like it
would be eighty percent, So like pretty much everyone would
be playing at an eighty percent, which.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Is when you think about why somebody eighty percent or
why somebody parts is good? Though a lot of it
is like uptime cool down usage. Now, uptime is easier
to focus on if you don't have to think about
your rotation. Sure. Cool down usage though is like these things,
it won't pop your CDs for you, So there's a
further loss for like players using this where it's like, Okay,

(04:17):
a lot of rotations interact with cool downs in different ways,
and like you're gonna lose more over that, and also
the kinds of players that would turn this on are
probably the kinds of players who don't religiously press you know,
every single CD as soon as it comes off CD
if they're supposed to. So I think there are a
lot of safety nets here where it's like, I don't
think it's too likely to actually be dangerously good. There

(04:39):
have been some various people simming because obviously one thing
about this is it's gonna vary from class to class,
and I suspect it's going to vary from patch to
patch quite a lot as well, where Like, if you
think about starter builds for talents, some classes they're kind
of decent, some they're pretty bad, and often they will
go unmaintained from patch to patch when something actually changes
with how you should do your talents right. And I

(05:00):
think that's a likely thing that will happen to the
one button rotation as well, unless unless they want to
commit a lot of resources to updating it and upkeeping
it for all thirty nine specs in the game and
all eighty eight Hero Talent or sorry, seventy eight Hero
Talent spec combinations that exist. Right like that, i think
it's very likely that it will be very variable depending

(05:22):
on your classespec because yeah, like you said, there are
some classes that are like highly GCD reactive, and there
are some classes where it's like, Okay, this is just
dropping my dots on the target all the time. But
then you think about, you know, playing Fury Warrior Repalade
and something like that, like those are probably a lot
less bad to make, whatever mistakes it makes.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
On Yeah, I've heard a lot of complaints about how like, oh,
this feels like it's bottying, or it's like it doesn't
belong to the world of Warcraft, et cetera. I don't really
understand all those complaints because the game has always been
simple in the past. The problem now is this feels
like a band aid to the problem, which is something

(06:01):
we've talked about a lot in previous episodes. We've talked
about how the complexity of the game feels a little
bit too high at the moment, and instead of Blizzard
directly addressing that, they're putting this like band aid solution
to the whole skill gap between the best players and
the worst players, that's what it comes off as. So

(06:21):
that's something we've talked about a bunch and I kind
of wish they went with the bad direction instead, because
I'm actually a huge fan of one bun gameplay, Like
maybe not necessarily one bun, but like you know, maybe
like two but three buns I wish exactly. Yeah, so
they're like BM Hunter Red Paladin on Holy DK Boomkin,
like those are extremely popular respects and people love playing

(06:42):
these specs. I kind of wish they went with VA
route instead. I wish it would be more similar to
kind of like an ARPG because like we do have
this new talent tree, we have so many different options
in the tree, but we don't really actually have options,
like we only have like one real good build. It
would be really cool if Blizzard just gave us the
option to play a build that's like maybe ninety percent

(07:05):
as good as the best possible build, and it's like
a pretty simple build. Like if it's just something, say,
I don't know, you're playing a prop paladin and you
want your rotation to be like mostly revolved around just
hitting shield Righteous and Vendor Shield, You're like you're like
a shield heavy Paladine build. If you just have like

(07:27):
some type of like one button build that's like very
simple and it's still effective, that'd be kind of cool
or like you know, maybe like a demon hunter if
that just like focuses on immolation aura and you're just
like feeding souls into immolation or of entire time, that's
your entire gameplay. In fact, I would say, like my
lot of is probably passive, right because like you just
maybe like toggle on immolation or and you're just kind
of just keeping it up and you're not thinking about
all these other interactions. So I would have liked that

(07:52):
approach personally instead of just like some makeshift button that
would just like do your rotation for you, because I
think that's like much cooler. I think it's like it
adds flavor, variety, and it just like gives players of
the ability to play whatever they want to play.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
I think that. So I've seen a similar sentiment, and
I think there's some validity to just like some specs
are pretty like over convoluted feeling. I think there's a
lot of specs where if you look at their hero
talents as well, it's like this really feels unnecessary, like
we're adding just a bunch of stuff that isn't cool
but is more you know, annoying PROCs or things to

(08:32):
think about, right, Like you about like Outlaw Rogue. Adding
either of the hero talentries to Outlaw Rogue feels pretty
you know, bad right now. But I think you and
a lot of other players are I think you guys
are kind of miss understanding whether this is supposed to
be a feature that you were interact with at all.
Like I don't. I think the Blizzard designing this doesn't

(08:53):
say anything about how they want to make the game
more or less complex. For players like you, players like me,
I think this is design. And for players that are
not us at all, I think this is like a
people that are good exactly like somethings that they don't
care about. Is improvement, is understanding you know how your
rotation works, Understanding understanding how your spec works, like they're

(09:15):
adding this to the game for for those players. Also,
of course, for accessibility reasons. Right if you're somebody who
it's either can't or won't want to, you know, do
all of the pressing thirty buttons that some sects require,
this is now an option for you. I very much
support that side of it. On the side of like,
you know, if you're like a gamer dad and your

(09:38):
your son plays Wow and you want to come home
and do a dungeon with him after you come back
from work, work in your your your job or whatever.
I don't know. I'm not I'm not very good at
conceptualizing this family environment because it's pretty different than my life.
But if that's what you're up to, I think having
something like this is an option to like, oh, you know,
play with your friends even though you don't really want

(10:00):
want to play Wow, but you want to play with
your friends who want to play Wow. Like that is
now a much nicer way to make that possible. So
I support it from those sides. And I basically I
don't think it's Blizzard making a statement that's like, hey,
we like the complexity of all of our specs right now,
and for people that are annoyed by it, we're adding
the one button thing. I think those are like just

(10:20):
completely different fields of like that's not the thought process
at all. They're adding the one button thing for people
that aren't to us, and I personally think that's I
think it's good to abt it for the people that
aren't us. I also would support like reducing complexity on
a lot of specs in the game right now, adding
some more ways for people to opt in like, there's
a reason Brett Palley and BM Hunter are so popular.

(10:40):
Part of it's that they have a fun fantasy, but
also part of it is just that there are a
lot of people who do want relatively simple gameplay in
the context of Wow, where there's so much else that
is also going on, and I think more than like
two or three when you factor in Holy Priest as well.
Sure of our thirty nine specs could be aimed at
those players, for sure, and I support that. But I

(11:01):
don't see them doing one button rotation as them saying
we're not going to do that, We've decided to do
this instead. I just see it as like a completely
different thing.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah no, if that wasn't their intense then that'd be great.
But like Ian definitely addressed the issue of there is
a pretty big disparity between people who are like really
good at this game now and just your average player, right,
And I mean I shure that sentiment too, Like that's
why I was saying, like I do support of the
whole one button rotation. I do think it's like not
a bad problem in World of Warcraft to have, because

(11:33):
if if you look at World of Warcraft in the past,
there were never really issues with if someone just wanted
to chill and play World of war Craft, I didn't
have to be bothered by having to even like do
seventy percent as good as the class should perform, because
I mean, like, you know, you look at something like,
let's use the most extreme example Classic World of Warcraft.

(11:56):
These players are straight up like I've seen people who
are playing hardcore with like motion tracking. I don't know
if you've seen it before. If there's that one guy
he streams, he's got like an entire configuration where he's
like waving his hand in the air and it was
casting ability. So like that would be the most extreme
example of like where you can introduce something really simple

(12:18):
to the game that wouldn't require accessibility features. But at
the same time, like you know, we're not trying to
go that far back because you know, we do want
some complexity in our game. We're not trying to play
classic World of war Craft here. So that's why I
wish there were options in the build because I see
this the most with rogues. With rogues, it feels like
a lot of players enjoy the fantasy of being a rogue,

(12:39):
but they just don't want to play the class itself
because it stinks playing a rogue and it kind of
shows like rogue is the least played class right now.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, although you talked about like doing ten percent less
to do like a two button build instead of a
you know, five button rotation or whatever, but like there
kind of been stuff like that in the game in
the past, even if you think about like frost Y
K when it was abliteration versus breath, and like abliteration
was maybe ten or fifteen percent behind, and like for
players like us, that's just way too much to ever

(13:07):
use it, right, Like, it's those talents just go completely
unused except by a small set of you know, pretty
casual players that are casual enough to want to do that,
but also don't just yoink a build from you know,
the internet or whatever and instead actually make their own
building and identify like, oh, this is this would be
the easier way to play.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, I feel like the bigger problem is it's not
socially accepted to play vs. Non optimal, non meta builds,
because that should be more of a thing, Like that
should be more of the thing where it'll be like, hey,
you know, there's this really cool build where you just
hit upliterate and frostrike and Vat's ir rotation, and it's
like it's super sick. You're able to do the amage
every forty five seconds. That doesn't really get pushed enough

(13:51):
because I like, for the longest time in World ward Craft,
it's always been you have to play the best build,
you have to be playing breath, you have to be
playing then for Boom or whatever it may be. And
it's just like it's not really true.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, I mean, like back in Classic You the first time,
you know, there were people doing real, real bad stuff
with their builds because the knowledge wasn't out there, and
also the knowledge wasn't out there to like fact check
somebody right, like you couldn't you You couldn't easily just
see like, oh, this person's really playing it real wrong, right,
I shouldn't invite them? Like it was. It was the

(14:23):
world was like you wanted it to be where you
could kind of, you know, be playing a fifty percent
as effective Frostmage as you're supposed to and still play
the game and get invited.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
To Yeah, you just built whatever was cool like that.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
I don't know how in an MMO you could force that,
like there are places where you are forced to play
with people doing weird suboptimal stuff, right, It's like LFR
and Random Dungeon Finder. But outside of that, there's just
you know, any time the content is remotely hard, like
you you would have to just restrict the information people

(14:55):
have so much or else why would they choose to
play with people that are, you know, doing some eighty
percent as much damage as they could if you want
to do hard content, because the hard content's fun, right like,
but if if the content is thirty percent harder because
people are griefing with their builds and stuff, like, there's
so much pressure on the on the meta to.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Exist, the simplicity has to be worth it. That's how
I see it. It's like Red Paladin. A lot of
people who are playing with Front Paladins. I think that
classes will be because it performs really well right in
those lower keys, But once you get into the higher keys,
then you start seeing the classes that are a little
bit more complex, but they do extremely well when you
play them at the top, like Mage. Yeah, I mean

(15:38):
I do miss that a lot.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
I remember playing a shield Slam Warrior vack in life.
Yeah TBC, maybe.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
I mean I like always want to play. I pretty
rarely play like a S tier meta build and ARPG is.
I usually like either doing something weird that I've cooked up,
or doing something weird that somebody else is cooked up,
or you know, taking some newly patched B tier skill
and seeing if it's good. But like that, it's just

(16:08):
so hard to do that in an MMO, and like design,
if Blizzard spent a bunch of time designing cool ninety
percent as effective prop palade and rotations where you could
opt into them, I feel like if they did that,
nobody would have used them, or such a small fraction
of the player base would use them. It would be like,
I don't know, that would just it would have to be.
It would be for a different game than what Wow

(16:28):
is right now. Yeah. The other side of this as
well is that so in addition to a one button
single button assistant whatever rotation thingy, they're also adding in
a version of Akili as well, which it uses like
the same logic to figure out what button you should
press next, but it doesn't press it for you. It
just highlights it on your action bar. So it's basically

(16:49):
the ad on Aikiley, except instead of you know player
written apls it's Blizzard inventing it.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, that one's nice. I'm always for Blizzard trying to
incorporate add ons into the base game and the details
too right, and like what else did you say?

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, that one's like longer term plan. But their basic
ideas like any functionality that everybody feels like they need
to get from an add on, we want to make
that accessible without having to go download an add on,
which makes that makes perfect sense to me. One of
the if you ever, like try to get somebody into Wow,
it's often one of the things that turns certain people
off is the It's not the fact that you can

(17:31):
customize you ui, it's the fact that, like you have
to download all these add ons to have this functionality
that everybody kind of agrees is important for the game. So, uh,
making that available by default is really nice. Blizzard also
want to take away some add on functionality as well,
which is I think a more worrying thing.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
That So what did they say?

Speaker 1 (17:55):
So the basic idea is like they want to make
it so that you know, weak or and stuff aren't
doing fights or mechanics for you. So the goal is
to get to a point where they can take away
you know, add ons ability to like read the combat
log in dungeons and raids and stuff and wait.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
But that's goods. I am a fan of that personally.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
It's a good goal. It's the same goal that privat
or has had. But you'll remember that when private or
has existed, they made mechanics that were much worse than
before privates exist, or like the mechanics that were made
private auras in a mere Deacill were worse for being
private auras. So it's one of these things where it's like,
it's a good long term goal, but there is a
lot of risk that in the medium term, if they

(18:37):
pulled the trigger on doing that change too soon, they
could make the game a lot worse in the meantime
than if we you know, a mechanic that needs a
week or to solve sucks. But it's much better that
you have a week or when that mechanic exists than
if you don't. And similarly, like the way that the
game works with all all the information that is given
through add ons that are reading the combat log like,

(18:57):
I agree, there's a better version of the game that
doesn't have that, but there's a big worry in my
mind that the same thing will happen as with private ours,
where it's like short term it gets a lot worse.
So that that, to me is the fear, and I
think that's the fear of the lot. A lot of
people have this fear that like, we're just gonna end
up eventually playing a game where we have where it's worse,
but you don't have to download out ons for it,

(19:18):
and that would be a win for some people and
a lose for people that are just pretty happy with
the game as is.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, that's how it always feels. That's kind of what
I was seeing initially about the one bone rotation thing.
It feels like anytime Blizzard tries to incorporate these new
features that should generally be good through the game just
don't end up working out, Like it feels half assed
or it feels like there's always some other problems that
come along the way, kind of like with the whole
cool down Manager thing, Like I don't know if people

(19:46):
are actually using the cool down Manager now, but apparently
it was causing a lot of issues at the beginning
of the batch, right.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, And it was like it's like pretty not customized
it's it is customizable, but it's like a pain in
the ass to customize that if you want, if you
want anything other than the order of cool bounds that
they have as like the default, you have to do
so much work. You can't just like easily drag if
you just want one spell to the left of the others.
It's like you have to do a bunch of work
to make that happen. So yeah, that that is something

(20:13):
where I think it's a well grounded worry, but Blizzard's
aware of it. So hopefully they, you know, don't run
it down that path this time around with all these changes,
And I think the big exciting thing is like, hopefully
we do get to a world where we can make
boss fights mechanics that you execute with your brain and

(20:33):
are tunes that way instead and are like reasonable to
do that way because you think about a mechanic like
you know Mugsy cages, the mechanic on Muggsy where four
people get cages and you need to like have backups
going to certain locations, Like you could just try and
a sign three people to each location, right, but then
what if two of them get a cage and now
or what if one of them gets a cage they

(20:54):
were asigned to a different location, right, And like, there's
no way you have enough time to solve that in
your head on the fly, right, And if you try
and react to it, it's way less efficient than if
you solve it with a weak aura. Right. So making
mechanics like I think muggsy cages for example, in a
world where you couldn't have a week order to assign that,
those mechanics would have to look fundamentally different. Uh, And
so they they need to make sure that they don't

(21:17):
just do what they did with private ours, what they
did on like Fire Act intermission, which is you make
a mechanic that that is unreasonable outside of week auras
and then force us to play it anyways, and like
that that was awful.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, I wouldn't even say difference. It would just have
to have a much more leeway.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, you could maybe do the same mechanic, but with
like a you know, double timer before.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
The Yeah, have more time to solve it before like
you actually have to you know, you can, yeah, like
do it on the fly.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Although even then, there's a big worry in my mind
that the value of like a twenty first player raid
leading goes way up if you have because like a
twenty first player could could identify, analyze and like learn
how to how to call that and uh and do
it really quickly in that spot. But that's a small word.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, it's a small right. That's like something that only
a couple of yields in the world would have to worry.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, it's like, you know, obviously, like the very top
yields are gonna have a twenty first anyways. And it's
just like if you're in a guild that's world you know,
twenty through one hundred or whatever that maybe does or
maybe doesn't have a twenty first, Like maybe now you're
thinking way more about doing it. But again, yeah, I
mean it all depends on how exactly they implement this.
This isn't a short term plan of theirs. This is
like a long term Adam add On philosophy thing.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah. I'm actually really glad if they mentioned all that,
because it is a big problem before the world Craft
that I've had for the longest time. And if they're
able to make this work, well, first of all, we
would have to simplify the hell out of the game
because not not just encounters, but also of the way
a lot of classes work because a lot of the
alone classes, they depend heavily on wikors to actually play

(22:51):
at the highest level, Like you have to be able
to tract all these different products and know exactly when
to be using certain things. I would say this about
al Dracky Reaver Vengeance right now, Like Vengeanc, each just
has so many moving puzzles and you just have to
be on top of all this in order to play
the class efficiently, and in order to do that you
need weekors. I've been like creating so many weekors for

(23:13):
my class, and like during MDI practice too. Whenever I
run to an issue, I'm just like, all right, what's
the first solution? Well, I mean, just make a week
or for it. So, yeah, if they can somehow remove
that whole aspect of getting good at a game, I
think that would be a huge w.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, I'm not sure if they want to go after
like displaying of your own information through weekors and stuff.
I think it's more like enemy interactions with week oras
that they are aiming at. But another one of the
warriors with this is that with the way that add
ons work right now, it's very hard to shoot that
and not hit a bunch of other stuff in the way.

(23:52):
So yep, yeah, I mean I think display how our
information gets displayed, whether or not they targeted, you know,
combat weeks weekors that show you your rotation, your cool
downs and all that stuff and your PROCs. One big
deficiency in the game is that it is quite bad
at showing you important information about how your SPEC's working,
something like Aldroci Vengeance. Yeah, like showing you your progress

(24:13):
towards that and then like which part of the combo
you're in and all those things. If you want to
do that with default UI, it is very bad, and
it looks bad, and it doesn't It doesn't give you
anywhere near as much information as you could show with
week oras. And if they could fix that with you know,
even just the cool down manager, improving that further and
making it so that you could actually like have a
similar functionality and you know, show those buffs, show certain

(24:35):
buffs in certain spots and those kind of things, even
that would go a long way for me as well.
Then to like if it was just part of the
default UI as well as an option, and you could
just share an import code instead of an add on
to to get you know, give give people access to
whatever cool way you've come up with to show your
various you know, al drochi bars or whatever. Yeah, or

(24:58):
just make you know, if it meant that they had
to make this simpler as well, that that would definitely
be another optional.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Though.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
I'm somebody who likes I like the way that a
lot of specs work. Some of them, I feel like
there's some some clunkiness, but in general, I enjoy like
the skill expression of doing a rotation well on a
lot of these classes, and I think that's one of
the things that there's a lot of people who agree
with me on that knee jerk don't like the idea
of a rotation helper or a one button.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Thing, and my advice IEA, I've been hearing a lot
of them, don't use that crowded.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
I think it's great they're adding these things to the game,
but I will I will not be using them except
for maybe making content or whatever. Have everybody in the
raid use one button for content something like that. Sure,
But besides that, like, I'm not going to be using this.
And my advice to players that are learning the game
is don't use the one button thing at all. And

(25:49):
uh if you are using the single button rotation or
the assistant thing, the highlighter, the achiliague replacement. My advice
is the same as it was for Heely, which is
probably don't use this at all, and if you are
using it, try and get off of it as soon
as possible, Like it's building bad habits. It's not the
best way to learn how to play your class. It's
like it's like learning to bowl with the guardrails up,
Like you are going to be griefing yourself long term

(26:12):
if you try and rely on that, and you actually
do want to hit your ceiling at all. So those
two things are both true, right, Like, I think that's good.
They're adding this feature to the game for the people
that want it, but it doesn't mean you have to
use it. And I don't think players like me or
you should use this at all. And they're tuning it
well pretty much. However, they tune it like it's going
to be worse at doing your rotation than you are

(26:35):
if you're good, and probably then if you're a good player,
you can probably get better than this rotation assistant in
like two hours of practice something like that. Tops Yep, agreed,
all right, let's see any more stuff on add ons,
the one button thing, the assistant. Nope, on we go,

(27:01):
Let's talk about let's talk about the class tuning. Actually no,
let's talk about ennars. Let's talk about ennars because we
last episode we crusaded on behalf of the player base
for better dinners, and Blizzard is given a little bit there.
Although I think I'm less excited with the change they
made than a lot of people are. So the change

(27:22):
they made is now you can get myth Track items,
but it's just the dungeon items, and you have to
do all twelves to do it. I'm fine with all
twelves being the threshold for this, but like, my problem
is just that the dungeon trinkets are so much worse
than the raid trinkets for a lot of respects that it's.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Like not just that, I mean, it's only trinkets, right
that it's being added.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, you can't get weapons and stuff from it, so
which is That's not a big deal to me, because
like crafting a weapon with a sentence is as good
as uh as getting a full myth track weapon pretty much,
So it's like not that different.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
I mean, but there's some really good stuff. There's like
best in slots, there's venuro synaps, whatever the hell the
Jassy d Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of items that
aren't just drinkets that are kind of excluded from this. Yeah.
I mean, like this whole situation feels like we've lost
the war. By at least we won the battle, so

(28:13):
I'm still glad they did something about it instead of
just like all right, you know, M plus ors, you
guys can get fucked, Like at least we're getting something
out of this. But it does feel like they are
not willing to give in, like they do not want
players to be getting mythic rating items, and you have
to be doing Mythic grade in order to get these
mythic rate items, which I mean, like I understand that sentiment,

(28:36):
but again, like you know, awful points still stand from
last week, like it's just too much to a mythic raid.
THEVIC grade has way too many accessibility issues and some
people just don't want to do it, and they still
do high M plus. But at least we're getting something
out of this. And yeah, they did buff some of
the trinkets though, which feels like they kind of listened.

(28:56):
They were like all right, you know, like me, maybe
like some of these drinkets aren't as good, so they
buffed stuff like the carved candle wax and.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
The Scardon Core, which that thing was so bad, dude,
I did one key with that thing on my age
because I got it like fairly early on in my
Mage's power progression. Oh my god, it was so brutal
to use. But they've made it a lot less awful,
still not good. The thing is, like, I'm looking at
my age and I'm pretty sure Heroic House of Cards
still beats all this stuff, even on the myth track,

(29:27):
by like a not insignificant margin. I don't know how
many specks that's true for, but I think there's gonna
be a lot of specs that will probably still din
our hero track raid stuff over a myth track.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, that's the thing too. It also it competes with
your your raid dinar, right, so it's like.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Right, do you even you only have three total purchases.
So the big problem as well, a big problem for
me is if you are somebody who's still progressing the
raid midway through this season, which like there are a
lot of people out there, there are way more people who
get cutting edge late than get cutting edge early. If
you're one of those people, you buy if you want
like a Eye of Kazan because you're doing Galliwick's Prague,

(30:05):
and so you buy a hero track Eye of Kazan
because like it's the best upgrade for you by far
on a nine minute fight. That's like the best thing
you can do for your raid progression. That's what my
guild would would require people to do if we were
still progging at this time. And then like, okay, one
of your three dinars has now been spent on a
stupid hero track thing, and even when you can replace
it later, that's one of your three purchases. Like that's

(30:25):
that feels really bad. So I would I w'ld feel
a lot better about it as well if there was
just like a if you could earn the right to
upgrade it back to mythtrack later down it like even
if you could had to still kill those bosses, it
would be a lot better feeling, even if you probably
weren't going to kill one arm mand mythic. Ever, it'll

(30:45):
feel less bad to purchase a heroic cost of cards
if you know, all right down the line, if I
kill this thing I can upgrade it. Yeah, there's like
a lot of ways they could make this feel better,
and I don't think they're probably they're probably not going
to do any of them. But like, you're right, we
did still win the battle of at least m plus
ors kind of it's a lot better than it was before.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
With being able to buy a nice Smith track drinket,
there are a lot of specks that have really good
ones as well, right, Like, if you want a pacemaker,
you know this is it's huge. This is the first
time you could deterministically buy and plus drink It's like,
but I don't want to I don't want to gloss
over the fact that, like that is a really nice
thing that's going to exist this season. And if you
look at top Keys, it's no longer going to be
a lottery of which people got these stupid things out
of their vaults. Okay, class tuning the Unholy dek nerf

(31:35):
is a kind of a big one. They nerve the
Blood is Life by like half of the store damage,
and then they buffed ret and Og, which I think
are there are two pretty big buffs to Ret an Og.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
It's funny how much they've buffed OG and it's still
probably not going to be played. Yeah, I just don't
know what they're trying to do with OG. I mean,
i'd be very curious to hear, like what exactly if
they want to do with it, what direction big go?

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, my guess is that they just don't want it
to be as awful as it currently is, but they
also don't want it to be good or meta, and
so they nerved it so much and now they're kind
of like buffing it back up. But I said this
when I made my Passion's reading video. I think what
they should do with it is you can just keep
doing buffs to it. This is not actually as big

(32:20):
of a buff as it looks as well, because it's
fifteen percent of their damage, but it doesn't buff ebonmite
or Breath of Beyond's conversion factor any of those things,
which is still a lot of their damage, although less
than it used to be by a lot. Probably they
can just keep buffing it, and then whenever they buffet
so then people actually start using it in high end content,
then they should revert that last buff and leave it

(32:41):
at the one just before that. Glad.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
The proper way of tooting yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, but I don't think they'll want to do that.
I think obviously they would. They would love to not
have to do that last buff revert thing. So I
think that's where they're at with OG though, is they like,
they are sick of it being Op two, but they
want to keep buffing it so that people who actually
want to play OG and like lower level content don't
feel quite as bad doing it. And I actually I've

(33:08):
seen people that are like OG mains and lower level content.
This is anecdotal. I've only seen a couple of comments
like this, but I've seen them saying like, hey, this
beck is it's fun to play for us right now. Right,
So like making it so that the social stigma of
playing OG gets a little bit less bad than it
is right now is definitely a good thing for those players.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
I actually haven't seen a singular all season. Yeah, not
a single one, Not in Raid, not in mplugs, nothing.
It's actually crazy how extinctive they've become.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Well, because these like a player base built up right
the only people that have played it over the past
few years. It's had time to build up like a
ten year old OG main.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, but it's a pretty distinct class. So I feel
like there are a lot of people who wants that
very specific place helve of being a support and it
has been popular for what two years?

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Almost true, that's right, And I guess if there when
it was good, there was an argument that like, well,
it's going to have high representation because it's the only
support class in the game, and so right everybody who
wants to play one of those is playing it. So
I guess the fact that it's popularity in the high
end has dropped off that much does sort of disprove
that that side of it. It's like, okay, at least

(34:21):
at least there's a level they can nerve it too
where that stops being true. But was this the worst
that I spec has ever been in Wow's history, like
start of this season agovocre, It's probably close. Probably maybe
not Maw's history, but like modern history.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah, it depends on what content too, because like I
would see, shadow Piece is pretty terrible right now. It
is crazy what it's happened to see shadow Freeze. I
kind of feel bad because that class was like doing
well and raid and then Liquid played two three of
them on certain fights. They got nerves pretty hard and
they were already stinking real bad and them plus now

(34:57):
yeah like completely dead.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
It remind me a Fury Warrior last season, where like
Fury was sick on the last few bosses of Mythic
and like, okay, Shadow is sick on one boss on Mythic,
which is one arm bandit but it's like so good there,
Like a Shadow Priests is one point five of a
regular DPS on that fight. They're crazy sick at that
exact profile. But like that means that the most recent
bound change that happened in Shadow was a nerf even

(35:21):
though they suck outside of that context, it feels bad.
I don't know what the solution is to that. Besides, like,
if Blizzard wants specks to have niches like that, they
probably just have to be okay with them being that
dominant at the fights that perfectly cater to that niche
rather than nerving it so that they are only good
there and awful everywhere else.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, I will say the Blizzard has definitely done a
much better job at figure out the exact problems with
the specs. Like the Holy you can nerve, they nerve
to Bear Bloodbee, Sandwich and Aoi, but they didn't touch
them in raid. In fact, they buffed the class in
single target raid. It's really good to see those types
of changes. In fact, I mean, is this the first

(36:03):
time we've seen a major class tuning patch vis late
into the patch? It's latest the season.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
It's weird that it's not with the Like they didn't
do any tuning on the point x point five patch,
which is weird, and now they're doing like a like
if you think about this as being the tuning that
comes with the point x point five patch, it's like
a pretty small balance change compared to previous point x
point five's But maybe they're trying to detach the tuning

(36:34):
from the patch cycle like that. I'm not sure. It
is definitely later. There have been some patches in the
game's history that they've abandoned before this point, for sure.
It's not that late into the season though, still only
but two and a half months or something.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
It has I swear my sense of time is like
soul warped. Whatever thetier ends early, I mean, did vitier
even then? I don't even know.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
It's it for yeah, for a lot of guilds, because like,
even if you spend a lot of polls on Bandit
and Muggsy. It's like that still is just it's not
that long compared to you know, how long a lot
of guilds, a lot of gilds spent like a month
on answer.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
X right, yeah, oh yeah, I'm actually curious how like
guilds are doing right now, because I was watching Druggles
Guilds progression the other day, and holy hell, it seems
like such a struggle. We have like two hundred something wipes,
like two fifty or something on Muggsy and like one
eighty or something on one Arn't Banded. This is looking
like a normals here. For you're mythic rating guilds. It's

(37:38):
you would have expecared to be a lot easier.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
Because yeah, like the narrative around this tier is it's
an easy tier. But oh my god, the way that
you like, the way that you prog these last few
fights is so tough. Like you just have these kind
of hopeless moments where it's like, man, people just there's
some jobs that just have to get learned or something,

(38:00):
because I just have to get learned, and like I can,
I am powerless to help with this. I've even experienced.
This is my guilds Alt run on one arm bandit,
where like we took I think fifty poles on our
alts to kill one arm bandit.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
There's no way you're sticking around with fifty poles.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Well, it's like over three weeks, so you know, we
we didn't kill it when we came back, didn't kill
it next week, came back, progged it for another like
three hours, and then killed it this week. And like, man,
that was like I could see, I could see how
progging these fights in particular would be pretty damned demoralizing.
It's it's tough out there band it in particular, which

(38:37):
I did experience on Progue as well. We're bandit, so
I've kind of prog banned it twice now because we've
also done it on our alts and.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
That, Yeah, having to reprog is like literally the worst.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
But it's weird because, like you know, usually things are
pretty easy to kill on your alts. If you did
them on your main's like not right away, you're you're
worse at your alts. They're worse geared. Especially there are
some people in your raidar maybe like ninety five percent
as good as they are on their main Some people
are ninety eight percent, but some peop people are like
seventy percent as good as they are on their mains
and that can make uh reprog take quite a while.

(39:06):
But yeah, both Bandit and Muggsy and I actually I
think Galewux is going to be the easiest of them
to re like to do on our alts. But it's tough.
It's uh, it's brutal the way the fights are hard.
It's hard for me to like explain exactly why, but
I totally see it. I think, you know, this tier
is going to have a reputation of being an easy
tier for the race world first, but I don't think

(39:27):
that reputationation is at all going to hold for like
mid tier Cutting Edge.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, they're pretty punishing fights. I think that's the biggest part.
It's like something that it's a bit difficult. Well, I
mean this is also probably the least nerved tier out
of past like what for a very long time now,
Like I remember shadow Land bosses getting nersed pretty heavily.
Dragonflight boss is getting nursed pretty heavily. Yeah, they touched

(39:57):
a whole lot. Yeah, I guess taken as much.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Big. I mean, every raid gets nerved even the easy raids,
and like, so Muggsy has taken five percent health nerve,
and then there was that other earlier change which wasn't
a huge nerve to it. Band It got like ten
percent real assistant nerve and the coin line is longer,
but yeah, there's not it's not like, yeah, exactly, pretty punishing.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
And also the thing about Bandit is pushing faster usually
makes fights way easier. If you think about Mythic Fire Act,
doing the entire last phase and dealing with eight seeds
out at once is like nuclear difficulty later on in
that patch, even before they nerved it, so there was
half as many seeds or whatever. But if you could

(40:44):
push it so you killed the boss when you had
six seeds out instead of eight or five seeds out
instead of what we're pretty rare. But like doing it
with a couple seconds of seven instead of all of
the seven and then a couple seconds of eight was
like exponentially easier. And if you think about band It,
that's not true at all. Band It, you can't. All
the extra damage you do in phase one doesn't matter
because the raide check starts when you hit P two

(41:06):
and you can't even push and skip a hard overlap
on the you know pylons, because you have to spawn
all three or else they spawn in the middle of
the room and wipe you. So like if you try
and kill it faster, you need to actually just change
your strat entirely, and it doesn't make it really easier,
it just makes it faster. So that's kind of true
for Mugsy as well. Like Muggsy, you don't get to
skip the hard part of the fight, right you're skipping

(41:29):
you know, the last fifteen seconds of the fight maybe,
which is just tiding around some mines and then dipping
into the fire. But like that part's really easy. That
part of the Muggsy is so free. The only thing
that you know, more gear and more damage lets you
do besides now when you can now four heal it
and whatever. But like for the first two months after
that patch, it didn't really get like exponentially easier in

(41:50):
the way that you know Fire Act does with extra
extra gear, extra dam.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah. I mean one thing that's really nice little is
the first bosses fuel a lot more killable. We uh.
The friend raises that I've been doing have actually been
clearing up sticks, which is including sticks surprising including sticks.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Yeah, that's impressive. Yeah. I've done maybe ten poles of
sticks in a semi pug or something and we got
into like fifty percent and you know, gave up. But
it's cool that the friend raid could kill that boss.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yeah, we actually once shot it this week.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
That's awesome. Yeah. How many of the people are like
in guilds that kill sticks or.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Have killed oh yeah, like well a lot of them,
like everybody.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Because I was trying to pug, it was like it
was like fifteen of us we're cutting Edge or something,
and then five people were from the group Finder and
not all of them had killed Mythic Sticks. And if
you have even like three pugs who haven't killed Mythic Sticks,
that fight feels like nuclear difficulty.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, that's it's like maybe like five idiot mplusers and
then the rest are like Hall of Fame raiders, like
some of them are like liquid players. So but even if.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
They're idiot m plusyet they're like high key.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
People, right yeah yeah yeah, but usually the more clolest ones,
you know, like the ones that like literally are clueless.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah, when you compare that difficulty to like ration end,
doing Ration end with a couple of coolest people. It's like, oh,
they're going to scissor the raid a couple of times,
but that's it, right.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, that's a stuff we will die.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Night and day compared to our hard sticks is.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
I mean, especially when turble was coming, Like, that's going
to make a big difference. So you get so much
more level and at that point we'll probably be like,
what twelve percent damage well or something like that.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yeah, twelve percent comes out into like not next reset?
Do we get nine percent this week?

Speaker 2 (43:40):
I think it was this week?

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah, yeah, so it'll be in like two more resets after,
so still ways before the twelve percent, but it'll be yeah,
right around when the like the week after the turbo boost,
I think when we get the twelve percent here good Yeah, dude,
speaking of the turbo boost they showed on PTR. Now,
the it does you cress to upgrade your crafted pieces,

(44:03):
which I think makes sense, is to be expected, like
if you want to take your craft pieces up that
cost crest. Although I'm pretty annoyed that I'm gonna have
to do so much recrafting on all my guys to
get the termo boose eye level. That's gonna be a
little annoying. It's only gonna be annoying for a day,
I guess. But I'm gonna do like thirty recraft orders
in one day when this stupid thing comes.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Out so expensive too. I haven't checked them a price
recently of materials, but for the first month or two
of the patch, the materials were so expensive.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, you want to use the sanctified alloys or the
Delve materials or whatever, and it's just like, ooh, maybe
I could just live without six eye levels here.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Yeah, yeah, I might do that on.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Some of my alts. Actually. Ah, whenever I got enough gold,
I'll probably spend it. But the map price is definitely
definitely pretty high. All right, it's time for our Patreon question.
While we sort of dealth recorded this look behind the scenes,
we just decided to do it right now. So franc
has just provided us with our our Fatreon question this week.

(45:07):
This one comes from IDK dot dot dot Brodo Baggin
So good name of the person came up with on
a fly on the fly, I guess they say, hello,
pottyse team, I need your advice. I raid semi competitively
two nights a week, four hours each. Top one fifty
two nights a week, four hours each, so eight hour guild.
That's top one fifty, not a lot of those. That's

(45:30):
a that's very high.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
I mean if you talk that is that top one yeah,
US or World because top one fifty World US, that
could be like what top one thousand.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
That's still good, Like there's still not a lot of
guilds that do that on those hours, but that is, Yeah,
that could be you know what World one fifty or
US one fifty, World three thousand or something, A something
likes to go. But yeah, if it's if it's World, like,
there's only a couple of gilds that are that good
and they're really sick like those those guilds are crazy.
But yeah, so late night is all I can manage.

(46:01):
Whenever I find a guild that raids at times, I
can make it's packed with Hall of Fame and top
fifty players running alts great at the game. A few
of them are total egotistical, parse assholes.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
No, that's not true. Wall First of all, that that
part is not true.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
I feel like a late night guild with alts from
top guilds basically is what they're saying.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, like maybe of like those specific guilds. But I
swear there are like so many top fifty guilds that
they like might run alts, but they are absolutely terrible
at a game, and they're not all parse assholes. Like
I don't know if there seems to be like this
idea that if you're in the top fifty world guild

(46:45):
you have no life, you don't work a job. You
raaid for like twenty hours a week minimum. That's like
pop tart corn dogs. But it's like, yeah, yeah, but
like a lot of guilts the guild me exactly same.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah, you're I think you're right, Like that's a but
maybe there's maybe there's a few people like that that
this person's encountered and they're trapolating.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Okay, yeah sure, yeah, So specifically in.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
The guild I child and passed now five percent on Mugsy. Okay,
that tells us it's top one fifty.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Okay, yeah you asked, So you ever talk about this specific.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Guild mystery solved? Uh does one dude's shouts things like
do you even have fucking eyes? What the fuck are
you doing? Just play the game, it's not hard, idiot,
or you fucking have wasted twenty to fifty polls doing
this shit? Why are you even here? You do this
mistake every time? Uh this is even mutes his own
voice on twitch stream, so you can't clip the tirades.

(47:44):
The GM and officers keep him around because he and
three to four other raiders come from top fifty guilds
and help us prog their alts. But the toxicity is brutal.
There are only one or two guilds that raid late
enough for me. Should I start my own guild and said,
how do I recruit and build a rating team from scratch?
What would you do?

Speaker 2 (48:01):
I see?

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Okay, do you know this guild? You know it's gonna
be desert? Okay, I don't sound I.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Mean, this is sounding like a lot of guilds, but
it's probably not one of those specific guilds. So it
just means fact, there are a lot of guilds like this.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
I think the the struggle of like you have a
couple of like jerks that you want to kick out
of your guild, but they're really good or even not
necessarily they're really good, but like they're friends with a
lot of your good players. Like that's a really tough
spot for gms. And officers to deal with, right of like,
you know, we can't kick this guy because we're gonna

(48:41):
lose like a bunch of ranks, because we're gonna lose
a bunch of good players that are you know, better
than our guild. Right. But I would say, if you
are one of the optioners in those guilds, you gotta
just kick those people, like or tell them, hey, you
can't talk to our people that way. That would make
things a lot better. But obviously the person setting in
this question is like not in leadership, so they can't
do that.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Yeah, I mean, I know Max would say for sure
to just like get rid of these people, because if
you're just going to cause this guilt to blow up,
I mean, this is one hundred percent going to be
something that would appear in a Potti tea, that's right.
But at the same time, I don't know if this
feels like a ticking time bomb, like it's probably fucked.
Either way, I would be completely honest. I feel like,
on one hand, if you kick them, then well, I mean,

(49:23):
you've lost a lot of good players in your guild
and your guild is probably fucked, and the people who
showed up to begin with probably aren't too interested in
sticking around. We're continuing, and at the same time, if
you keep these people in the guild, it's only a
matter of time before the guild dissolves.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah, so it's a tough spot for leadership to be
in the person setting in this question, it sounds like
they're just a raider in this guild, and it's one
of those guilds where it's like, Okay, you're a pretty
good player, you're somewhat committed. You're playing with some people
that are much better than that and more committed, maybe
not even better, but just you know, they have more
or fight knowledge because they progged it already in their
twenty hour main guilds and now they're here on their alts,

(50:04):
and like that experience can definitely kind of suck. It
can suck for all parties. You know, I was complaining
about wiping fifty times on alts on Bandit, right, and
like that felt almost worse than wiping one hundred and
fifty times on mains on that boss, because like, I've
already done it, and the people that are playing alts
in this kind of guild are feeling that as well,
but they're even less emotionally mature than me, and so

(50:25):
they're taking it out on their other people that they're
rating with, who also aren't even you know, all other alts, right,
they're people that are just at that level learning it
for the first time. So it's a kind of natural
thing for those people to get frustrated with. And it's
one of the reasons why I think you got to
be really careful anytime you're in a situation where there
are people that aren't genuinely progging it with you, right,

(50:47):
Like they're reprogging it. They're playing for fun on some
alt or something like that. Like that's a bit of
a recipe for this kind of disaster. So yeah, I
would say you should hop guilds starting your own guild instead.
I mean, it's a lot of responsibility, it's a very
that's a big that would be a big step to take.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
They do not do that unless you're like willing to
put a lot into this, especially if yeah, like bro
our guy here says around a full time job in
three kids, there's no shot you'll be able to start
your own guild. That seems like a recipe for disaster.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
You could have sixteen more kids that would be one
way to doing it. Otherwise, I think, yeah, your best
bet is going to be Like when you think about
a guild master, almost always guild masters are relative to
their guild. Like they play, they not even play more often,
but like they're more time committed to doing all the
GM stuff and like being around being there every week,

(51:41):
you know, handling all this stuff with recruitment and drama
and all these things outside of raids. So the time
commitments involved, Like if you're rating in an eight hour guild,
that's one thing, But if you want to be the
GM of an eight hour guild, like that's probably a
similar similar commitment to rating, and maybe a sixteen hour
guild something like that. Like it's a lot more that
you shouldering. So my advice would be to don't do

(52:03):
that and instead you said, there's not a lot of
guilds that raid your hours, but like find one of them, uh,
and and join one of those instead, because making your
making your own guild is that seems like it would
cause some of the problems that you can't solve because
of your schedule.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
Yeah, maybe you don't leave just yet, but like maybe
you start exploring your options.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Yeah, but that's hard spot no, I think I think
I don't think that socks like at all. Like, you know,
don't don't leave your job until you got a new
one lined up.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
That's a pretty cool, yeah, But I know a lot
of you, like guilds are like super against that, where
if you're just sneakily applying to guilds while you're actively
in a guild, very like they fucking hate that.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah, I mean, if they find out, there's there's a
lot of guilds that will kick you. But I don't
think it's unhappable to do it. I think it's I
think those guilds are just being kind of unreasonable. The
one thing that is bad is like if you leave
mid Prague on a boss during a tier to a
lesser extent, but if you're in a lower ranked guild
kind of have to leave in the middle of a
tier because your guilds always progging, but as you got
up higher, leaving it all during a tier is kind
of bm and leaving mid boss Prague is bad. But

(53:09):
other than that, I don't think there's anything wrong with
shopping around and finding a new guild and you might
not find one, like if you're raiding weird enough hours
if you want to raid two nights four hours late night,
you know that might just there might only be this
guild or a couple others, and if those don't work
out for you, like you might have to decide between
do I want to raid with these jerks or not
rate at all, which is.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
Or you might have to become in an umpluster that's
like the worst case.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Yeah, or even more casual right during a two night
six hour guild something like that, which three three hour guild, right,
three hours per nights, the six hours total. But I
would say, yeah, I mean you basically you might have
to make that decision. This guild might be the only
option to raid the hours and the hard coreness that
you want, and you have to decide if that's worth
the abuse, which I would say long term probably isn't.

(53:55):
But I can't make that call for you. And then yeah,
worst case you could become an mplus.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Well yeah, eventually, how bad it would be if you
had to become an mpluser. Yeah, you would be stuck
being a second class, that is it. Then you'd just
be stuck without gnors. No, But like this is exactly
why a lot of people quit mythic rating, Like, there
are a lot of people out there who love M
plus or not love love and plus love mythic rating,
but they can't exactly do that, so they just end

(54:21):
up doing M plus instead, right, or if they go
for like a more casual guild, But sometimes you won't
find that exact same fulfillment that you normally get, cause
it for sure feels really bad going down in guilds.
I know so many people like this. I know people
who if it used to be in liquid or used
to be in like some extremely good guild and if

(54:41):
you just can't go down and guilds anymore, it just
feels terrible to be trying to rate and prog with
these lower level guilds.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Yeah, it's and it's not the same, right like, once
you have done it for real, whatever that means to you,
doing it less hardcore, you know, it's even just like
play with people that are slower to learn and are
less committed than you, like, that can be a frustrating
experience if that is you. The correct way to deal
with that is to just not rate in that environment

(55:09):
rather than abuse your the people you're playing with, which
is what it sounds like this it's unluckily our questions
center inner is playing with some people that are feeling
that way and are taking it or taking it out
on the other raiders who haven't done anything wrong.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Yeah, my personal advice just finish prog, get some good logs,
and try looking for guilds. I would not recommend trying
to create your own guilt. I mean, if you really
want to and sure have fun, go luck, But it
is is going to be a tall order.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Now, on the side of advice for recruiting and building
a raid team from scratch, that's a big question. That's
actually a topic we're looking at doing some point in
the near future when Max is back maybe, so uh,
look look forward, stay tuned to the POTTC if you
want that. Speaking of episodes we might do in the future, sure,
I was also thinking about maybe doing a tank episode,

(56:04):
a Tank Questions, like a tank clinic episode, which would
be like you know, basically advice for new to medium
experience tanks that we could give and answering questions that
those sorts of players have. Now, I'm not sure if
this will be a good episode or if it would
be too niche or anything like that. So if you're
listening right now, let me know, let us know if

(56:26):
you think that would be a good episode, and also
if you have any questions for that episode, and you
may or may not see that at some point in
the future, depending on whether we decide to do it
or not. But that's sense an idea. We are.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
We are all Tank players exactly, the whole Tank podcast exactly.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
We want to leverage that for good and then, of course,
you know, I know that all the healers and stuff,
we'll get some more healer episodes on soon as well.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Don't worry, no, not the healers true.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Okay, last thing I want to cover before we end
our show for the week is and we saved this
for last so that you want to click off you can.
What do you think of the MDI this weekend? There
was the Specs Spec Variety rule coming in, which I
think had some predictable effects. I think it creates a

(57:16):
sort of weird thing where like the best teams play
around it more and then the weaker teams ignore it
and say we'll deal with the bands on Sunday if
we get to it, and then that might lead to
like maybe more competitive day ones, but less competitive Sundays.
But what was your like watching the MDI, how's it
and also prepping for your own weekend that.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Yeah, so we've been practicing during the Cops because that's
like our limited window of being able to practice. We
can't practice after the day of the Cops, so we
just like try to squeeze in whatever practice weekend. And
while we were watching, like Corey brought up Drugo being

(58:00):
and their team possibly getting eliminated, and I got so
interested all of a sudden, I was hate watching that hard.
I was like, holy shit, it would be so funny
right out with Drogo wived here. And they just lost
because they would have been what the sixth or seventh
team or seventh seed.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Team, and they were losing to the nineteen seed. The
nineteen seed was first out of that day as well.
And yes, it's because they went for the strategy of
like playing off meta stuff so that they could play
the meta on Sunday. But like, they almost didn't make
it to Sunday because they almost lost to two teams
that didn't do that and just played you know, pretty
much full meta all day.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
They basically self sabotaged solve Avid could make it Sunday,
right and.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Right, but now the Sunday, we're recording this on the
Saturday after the MDI, So I don't know how Sunday
is going to go. But there's two teams that have
access to the metacom and two teams that are losing
either two or three specs from it. Which that's gonna be.
I don't know for sure, but I suspect that Sunday
is gonna be uh that like drug Ro's team maybe

(59:04):
had a hard time making it to Sunday, but they'll
have a pretty easy time making it through Sunday. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
I feel like this format doesn't work as much if
some of the teams weren't playing to win, because I mean,
like these teams aren't really playing to win, right, Like
they're just playing to make it to Sunday.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
But at the same time, it does create a pretty
interesting dynamic of the good team having to potentially sacrifice
their picks or like potentially not making it to Sunday
just so bad they could keep fair picks.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, it's it's actually been pretty fun to watch. My
guess is that you know, they'll try a different format
next season, but I don't know for sure. I the
one thing I always say this, but like I'm always
a fan of trying out new stuff that might work
and seeing if it does, rather than like theorizing that
it won't work and just never trying anything new. So

(59:59):
I think especial with like changing specs in the MDI,
especially because there's no affixes anymore in twelve plus keys.
So like, if you don't have some kind of rule
to encourage some kind of variety and you're trying to
do it for four weekends, I'd be very worried about
things getting very boring by the end. But I think actually,
with a rule like this, there's gonna be something exciting

(01:00:22):
most of the days of the groups where it's in play,
and then on the actual Global finals it's not there
and it's just full you know, Battlecruiser, World of Warcraft
all three days. So yeah, I would say I am
cautiously optimistic that it's going to be a pretty fun
MDI season to watch because of the rule or the
rules going to help with that. But also I would

(01:00:43):
probably put some money on it changing before for the
next season in some way or other.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
I also think this goes to show that there are
respects that are much better than people initially thought, because
I mean, you know, usually whenever you're playing these types
of comps, the public perception is okay, vs are of
only good specs, every overspect in the game is complete trash.
But I mean, this weekend kind of goes to show
like some of these specs are actually kind of insane,

(01:01:10):
Like the destocks are doing pretty much on Holy deky damage.
In fact, I don't even know how good on Holy
dk is going to be after this massive right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Next weekend, we might not see it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Yeah, dude, that's some crazy changes in the middle of
the MDI.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Yeah, it's hard to be super confident how big the
Unholy nerf is because like the Unholy nerth nerves your
high role polls, which you already needed to be able
to do all the polls if your on Holy Dka
doesn't high roll. But I wouldn't be surprised if you
don't play it. And yeah, I like how every team
kind of has a different thing that they did when
they played off meta.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Stuff, right, and a lot of theirs.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Yeah, people playing their mains, which I think has always
been if we could have an MDI where it was
just hey, you're playing your mains and we could somehow
have a rule that did that, Like that would be
so fun to watch. Yeah, and every Dungeon, right and like,
uh your play you're playing bear back in bf A, right,
and like that would.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Be everyone just brings out their big guns. You've got
like drog on his Prompali and uh we saw that
long casual on is Rogue.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
Mhm. So I I really like getting the chance to
see a little bit more of it, although it is
kind of again I don't I'm not sure that this
rule is the perfect rule, but that has been a
very nice side of it at least.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
I mean I personally, I feel like I kind of
want them to take it a step further in just
you can only play one class per or you can
only play the same spec.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Like you can use for Dungeon EA spec one day.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
You can't use it on Yeah, no, no per per Dungeon.
Even if you're playing like Workshop, you can only play
that comp or you can only play those specs in Workshop.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
So you have to like that like that put that's
like gig up multi classing pressure right, where like that
would be so many specs on people playing playing this tournament.
But that would be cool. Yeah, even just like changing
this back variety of rules so that it looks at
dungeons rather than like total runs or something like that.

(01:03:18):
And it's like, you know, you don't because right now
you kind of do this thing where you play your
you play like five dungeons at the start of the day,
the lower keys on your B plan B comp and
then you swap to the plan A camp for the
high keys at the end of the day, and like
making that based on the dungeon rather than the total
number of runs or something like that would maybe go

(01:03:39):
with that. But I don't know. I mean, I'm just
bouncing around ideas. But I'm glad that Blizzard also was
bouncing around ideas and decided to try some of them
this season. I think I think the season is a
lot more exciting than if they just did, you know, nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Yeah, I agreed.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
What was the chink about no axes? By the way, And.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Uh, on one hand, it's really nice. Actually, I would
say I definitely like it more in md I or
not in d I guess keys, Yeah, same same thing.
I like it way more now because it makes practice
much more simple. I feel like we haven't had to
practice nearly as much as we normally do. We've only
been practicing for like a week and a half or

(01:04:21):
maybe two weeks now what it's been. We haven't practiced
that much, but it feels like we're largely complete, whereas
normally in this At this point it's like, Okay, you know,
maybe we've got done with fortified dungeons, or maybe we've
got done with both fortified and tyrannical, but we don't
know what it's gonna be like on sanguine.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
So yeah, seguine dungeons yet to do bowl string dungeons
like there were some dungeons verre explosive it was way
harder as well.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Yeah, yeah, I live keys, though I'm not I'm not
entirely sure on the live key part because as nice
that is, as nice that is as it is to
like have every week but be a push week, it
also feels kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Bad right now, I'm not gonna lie like fact it's
not different from week to week.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Yeah. Yeah, maybe maybe people are gonna be pissed about this,
because I know a lot of people are like super
against this idea, but I feel like resilient keys and
no affixes have been kind of bad. Bro, I'm gonna
piss off a lot of people saying that I swear because.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
This is a safe place.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Yeah, yeah, because I mean, like there's been so many
times whereas like all right, is resilience is resilient a
mistake because it definitely like devalues keys a lot, and
you get to the point where you're just it feels
almost like you're doing great progression, Like some nights we're
just sitting in a resilient key, or like people just
don't take it as serious because it's resilient. It certainly

(01:05:50):
feels bad, but I know like for a lot of people,
they really like resilience and they really like having no effixes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Yeah, I I remember we've had a lot of discussions
over the years about like what if they just remove depletion,
and resilient keys is like kind of close to that,
except it doesn't work on the prog keys obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
But like, yeah, it's halfway there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
It's halfway there, and I definitely I am glad that
it's not on the prog keys at least, And I
I do kind of think you're, like, yeah, maybe they
should change resilient keys to not like be as strong
as they are, Like, what if it was a instead
of depleting it it you could wipe or you could

(01:06:32):
do three times and then it depleted, right like it
depleted after the third attempts, or.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
At least make it so like you can't just run
back into the dungeon after the first pole, because like
at the very you should add least right do a
good amount of the keys, because like, right now, what
happens is all right, the first pole goals kind of poorly.
People just zone out and be just like doing it again, right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
It just that's always been my worry about doing this,
like keys not depleting.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's like one of the most common questions
being asked right now. M plus whatever a key is
like half depleted. Someone will type in chad is rezil
question mark?

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Yeah, that literally happened to me in a just a
twelve Like I was, I was doing an alt twelve
for funzies, and the tank just like pulled some peacekeepers
at the start of Motherload and then was like, oh
is it resilient? Okay, goodbye. I was like, all right, well,
my life has only been made worse by resilient keys
so far. Then, but I haven't actually pushed yet this season.

(01:07:30):
I'm not sure if I will. I've been I've been
doing a lot of like alt low keys. I've done
a couple of like thirteens and fourteens on my mage
for fun, but nothing, you know, no real post yet.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I will say one nice thing
about resiliencies. It does let people play with their friends
without the worry of the key.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
That is nice. It's definitely got upsides. Yeah yeah, I'm
also torn on it, and also on affixes, like I
like weeks being different from each other, but I also
am very glad that there's not like dead weeks anymore,
where you know, like the bowl string weeks and stuff anymore.
Like that's such that the absence of that is very nice.

(01:08:13):
It reminds me sort of when they took away seasonal affictses,
where I'm like, Okay, a lot of really bad stuff
is now gone, but also some good stuff, and like
more than the good stuff, but like the potential for
new good stuff in any given season has also gone.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
Yeah. Oh yeah, I was guys about the MDG chat.
By the way, was anyone still complaining you di jet?

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Oh, I'm sure there were I don't really read chat
while i'm casting because I get distracted if I do.
So I'm not one hundred percent sure, but I imagine, especially
because like a goal of this back variety rule is
for their variety when the at the end of the day,
all the teams are on you know, the metacomp again,
and I imagine that then there's people complaining about that,

(01:08:55):
but I don't know. The goal wasn't to remove people
can right, It's like that's part of it, but it's
also just to make it more fun to watch, which
I think it definitely does.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
Yeah, I mean, I've enjoyed watching it so far. It's
been a good first week, and.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
Yeah, we'll see how good it it stays into the
weeks two and three as well, the second and third Cups,
because those are i think, especially without affixes, those ones
are hard to have be as interesting as the first one.
But if the teams like are doing different stuff with
the off metaspecs that they're playing, that could go a
long way. So yeah, again I'm optimistic. I've I've liked

(01:09:35):
casting the weird specs. It helps as well, because like
I feel good about it because I know a lot
of the like, I know all the weird interactions that
a lot of the specs have, and like how a
lot of them work, So I feel like I got
a competitive advantage as a caster whenever more specs are
being played.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
That is true.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
All right, I think we're out of stuff to talk
about for this week. No Max here to you know,
double the length of the podcast, so uh huh. That's
gonna be it for us for now. Unless there's anything
else that you wanted to bring up, anything we didn't mention.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
No, yeah, that's oh yeah, all right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
We'll see you all next week. Bodyos, Bodios