Ep. 75 - NEW MEGA DUNGEON!

Hello friends and enemies of the PoddyC Podcast. This past week 11.2 got announced, and in this episode we're once again gonna be talking about it. We will specifically be talking a little about some class changes, and the new dungeon.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Welcome to episode seventy five of The pottyc. This
week eleven point two discussion continues here on the Potty
Ce Dorky, You've had a chance to play the new dungeon.
How is that?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hmmm? It's pretty cool so far. It's mechanically more interesting
and visually it looks nice. Also, the mechanics are a
lot clearer than before.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
That's good.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
So it feels like a lot of the mechanics are
similar to mobs we've seen in the past. Like one
of the mobs is literally the dark Fused Inspector from Floodgate.
It's the mob that just teleports behind you and does
like a frontal except it's like a much better visual
and easier to avoid line. And also just like random

(00:50):
moms like this one mob as it just does like
a gorg chop mob leap where just like jumps on
your head and does a cast. I think it's a
salt dungeon so far. I've been pretty optimistic about the
new dungeons, and Floodgate was definitely a huge banger. This one,
I would say, it's like pretty good so far, but

(01:10):
nothing special about it.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Did we talk about the Mega Dungeon thing last week
or last episode.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
I don't think we got to it.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Okay, yeah, I think that's something we should cover hugely
because I'm actually I'm a big fan of this. So
for anybody who hasn't a.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
To me, I'm not quite sure. I just know that,
like Tazavsh is like a city we can go to
or is it like.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
So yeah, Tazavash was a mega dungeon the first time around, right,
but they split it into two wings frem plus. Now
they're still splitting it into two wings frem plus, but
they're not for M zero. There's no M zero Tazavash
next time around. And instead, if you do Mythic Tazavash,
it's just all eight bosses. It's no timer, and it's
tuned like a plus ten and it gives loot like

(01:52):
a plus ten. And they said it maybe gives great
vault like a plus ten, and I really think it
should and hopefully it does.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
And then it's like a you know, non timed but
difficult like a plus ten mythic dungeon experience thing, which
I am a huge fan of. John of the Infinite
had a little bit like this, except you didn't get
vault but there was like plus ten equivalent gear you
could get out of it for the hard mode and stuff,

(02:18):
and I thought that was a big, a big w
and I would love it if there's more stuff like
that more often. So I think this is gonna be
it's gonna be really nice for people that the time pressure,
the possibility of like depleting and wiping and stuff your key,
losing your key, those things just not existing will make
them way more interested in the content because there's a
lot of people that that's like the big turnoff for

(02:39):
M Plus.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Isn't that what I feel? Like? Like hard modes right
when these mega dungeons came out, which was like in
the middle of the second patch usually of an expansion
the past couple expansions, not this one, and you would
you would do like the hard mode to be really cool,
but then you'd like outgear it right away or you
it would lose its novelty, and then as soon as
it came out on Mythic Plus, that like experience was
gone forever. So I think it's cool that they're building

(03:02):
it into like an actual relevant seasonal gearing thing.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, when you mentioned out gearing it, that's how I
feel about the Dell underpins toom this is what I'm
talking about. I feel like, I mean, have you guys
even really done a whole lot of those underpins.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
I did in week one?

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah? Like they were kind of cool at first, right,
Like I have no idea what you're talking about. The
tower challenge thing, Yeah, yeah, but you.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Know not no tunes nowhere close to a major tower,
which makes sense. I don't know. I feel like that
would be like I do a lot of delves every week.
If I could replace one of them with just doing
the Boss again, I would for my vault like that
would be sick. But uh, there's no like incentive to
do it, so you don't. And I think that's the
thing with this with the Mega Dungeon as well, Like

(03:56):
if it doesn't give a good vault, then there's no
incentive to do it. And but like if it does,
and then you're sitting there and you're like, hey, I
need I need some more vault slots. What if we
just go do Tazibash instead of instead of doing a
key right like we can, it'll be more chill.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
There's definitely been a demand for challenging five man content
vat isn't just M plus because a lot of people
don't like the time or aspect of mplus and yeah, exactly,
it does suck that Verari isn't more of this. I mean,
I remember talking about this back in the beginning of
the expansion, I believe, where I was like, man, fab,
we should really expand on the whole idea of hard

(04:30):
mode Dome of Infinite where if you do a death
list run you actually get myth track loot was a
myth track loot or it was like.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
You got myth track from the Last Boss yeah if
you did.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
It, yeah, yeah, yeah, and that was cool as hell. Yeah,
Like I wish they did more of that.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
So this is basically that. This is basically like that,
but without the mythtrack stuff, but maybe with the myth
track stuff from the vault if they because the thing
about the Donna Infinde was you didn't get a good
vault all from it, you got an M zero vault.
If this one gives a goodvault, then the myth track
for everybody, uh from that, which, yeah, I think it's huge.
And again I'm somebody who loves the timer part of
M plus, but I think it would be really healthy

(05:06):
if there was more rather than them having to you know,
sometimes tone down the timer challenge and M plus and
like have to worry about having you know, about making
M plus timers to tighten things, which obviously like you
have to balance that as well. But if you always
have a safety valve where people who don't want that

(05:28):
time pressure just don't have to engage with it, I
think that would be really good. So yeah, I think
I think it's a huge, a huge w if they expand,
especially if they expand on this further, like if every season,
if they just moved mythic dungeons to this and they
kind of did this art like that at the start
the start of this expansion, you guys, remember, we're like, oh, yeah,
they've made mythic dungeons way harder and heroic dungeons or

(05:49):
what mythic dungeons used to be and normal dungeons are
what heroic dungeons used to be, and.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Like that just that just never like I say, with
the key level squish too, Like yeah, that whole leb
squish thing was kind of like a big deal at
the beginning of the expansion and like end of season four,
drank flake, but it's gone to the point where tens
are back to just what it were before pretty much.
So it's kind of it's something pretty much. Yeah, I mean, like.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
An old ten, like when twenties gave you the portals.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I'd say its still probably a little bit harder still
well I mean, well, no, not exactly like twenties portals,
but like tens are still kind of a joke right now,
and tens were supposed to be, like, you know, pretty challenging.
That's where you get your do you get mistractedly from tens?
I don't remember, yeah, right from your all? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(06:42):
so it's kind of lost that whole novelty of the
tens being the major challenge, and that's when you start
getting into high keys.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, the squish. I don't know, I've I mean, I
guess we're doing people are doing what twenty twenties twenty
one's instead of people were doing like thirties and stuff
in some previous seasons. But I don't know, it really is.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
It's slowly getting back fair yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Exactly like the start of BFA was also twenties, that
was it. It feels more like that than like they
squished it so that the one to ten experience is
completely different. So I don't Again, I don't think it
was necessarily that important of the things. Actually, it's one
of those things where I don't really care that they
didn't succeed it because I don't think it was an
important thing to succeed at. So yeah, who cares.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, Speaking of which, that group I was talking about
you every week if a Brewmaster no Comms group that
has been doing high keys, they actually timed a twenty
two Dark Flame Cleft, which is exturely impressive. That's like
literally a Rank one world key as Brewmaster on non
metacom no comms. That is actually insane.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
I mean the comp is good, right, I think like
when you're say non metacomp I think like they're just
like literally just doing like what was that radar Io
competition they did where it was the meta.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Oh dude, break the meta drama this season that just
happened as well. Oh because like they announced it and
Unholy DK wasn't a metaspec and Havoc Demon Hunter was
or something because of like the way that they calculated it,
and there's always like some drama around it because they
usually are trying to make sure that every class has

(08:27):
at least one spec represented. And also they like look
at all the data, not just the high keys. So
you know, stuff like rat Pali or whatever. It is
always banned and it's weird. But this summer around there
was a lot of drama in particular around I think
it was I think it was mostly like Unholy not
you're not counting as meta was the thing that got

(08:47):
people were really really riled up on the internet.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Well, yeah, I mean Unholy is like insane, It's it's
one of the best classes in the best camp. How
the fuck would it ever? Is it like due to keys?
How do they determine the make the meta stuff? Is
it from like a like a lower level.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
It's yeah, they like use a combination that changes to
the season and of you know, their own judgment and
then looking at data different ways and making I think
something that has definitely So I've helped them in the past,
not this summer, but sometimes in the past I've helped
them like choose the specs and they're they're you know,

(09:24):
a goal is like every class has a spec in there. Ideally,
although there was one season that both have a Convengeance
were great and so they banned both of them and
then did like a special DH event later. But yeah,
like looking at all data but also top keys, but
also all data. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
That's how popular is to break the meta event.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Recently popular?

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Okay, people interact with it.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, I don't even know anything about it, honest, I.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Don't know how many people. I don't know the number,
but I do know that it generates discourse.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean, if it generates discourse,
it is popular because if like no one did it
and no one cared about it, that discourse wouldn't exist
when they did things like that.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Okay, they have a methodology posted this time around, so okay,
they looked at the data from the last six weeks,
and then the goal is to determine what is the
meta for the majority of players, which is always a
complicated task. And then they justified it by saying, okay, look,

(10:28):
tens and twelves are by far the most common keys. Yeah,
but with the way the meta seems to shift as
the level gets higher, we believe focusing on twelve and
higher made the most sense for this season to break
the meta. So for the last six weeks, we take
the bottom fifty percent aspects for each role by representation,

(10:49):
and then from this point we make adjustments as needed
to accommodate various considerations. But we believe this methodology is
a common adjustments is needed to accommodate various considerations that
they don't actually enumerate here. But yeah, Unholy is now
banned on the list and havoc still off the list.
But yeah, there's a like rhtt of the of the

(11:16):
pool of keys that they looked at, like rhet is
the most common one by quite a bit, which, yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
You know, the real surprising part is that you're somehow
involved in this two drenaline. How are you always involved
in these.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm not this summer round, but I have in the
past help them sometimes they would like sit, they would
help me, have me like you know, sanity check the like, hey,
we've got this list, and there are a few seasons
where I would flag something like if an holy was
on the list of time around, that's a Those are
the kind of things that jump like this summer around.
For instance, destros as a spec you can use, despite
I think it being fairly thought of as like we

(11:52):
saw a lot of destro in the MBI but there's
just not a lot of it in high keys right now.
There's more demos, so Demo's banned and Destro isn't. Uh,
and then again like stuff like rerat being banned. You know,
it's tough because like if there was a high key
group that was using ret pale, people would think of
that as off meta. But it is the most popular
speck by far in just the twelve and up bracket.

(12:13):
So I don't know, I don't really have a point with this,
just just interesting.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, I just.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
I hijacked Max just saying the wordst break the meta.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Remember what I was talking about. Yeah, well, oh, I
was just I don't even know why. I was like,
he just said it was like an off meta comp
And that makes when I initially heard that, I'm like, Okay,
it's just like some like some like ragtag group of whatever.
But it's like it's like the comp is like fucking awesome,
and it's like pretty close, probably pretty close really. I
mean that the fact literally, the fact that they are

(12:43):
proof that they are timing world first keys with it
means that COMP is probably very comparable, if not very competitive,
with whatever you would consider the meta comp.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, so what makes it interesting is every single one
of the individual specs are different from quote unquote metacomp.
Because you know, normally when people are having this whole
discussion of like all right, what are the best specs,
you know, someone will say, like, you know, maybe boom
Can is the most OP part of the metacomp or
VDH is the most OPI part, or like dispriests. Everyone
always plains about orticle dispreas is OP, but that comp

(13:13):
has literally none of it has no arcade age, no
boom Can, no none of that, and it somehow just
like works out. It's because of like the combination of
those specs. Because if you try to pull like a
yeah exactly, if you try to like put a disc
priest in that group or an arcade mage in that group,
it's probably gonna stink. I mean maybe it won't like stink,
but it won't be what it is.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
It's not as uh like there's not as much synergy
like the a lot of the a lot of the
like buffs in that group. They all work with all
of those classes and the buffs and the medical there's
like a magic meta comp and a and a physical
meta comp.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
A lot of.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Reasons though, where it's like somebody will be will claim
to be on an off meta coomp, but they've just
got like four metaspects and then one off metape.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
And this is different than that.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
It's like somebody significantly worse though, you know, yeah, uh.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, I mean this is making the first time time
everywhere you can build a comp that's completely different from
what is the normal meta comp and there are different types.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Has been hyped in the past, but I think this
is the best it's ever actually been.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, that is true, dude.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Speaking of so wow social media happenings, you guys seen
the the d H discord trying to start a movement
about death Grip not being a raid buff d D
sorry k.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
K K is that a new Is that a new movement?
I feel like DK's have been on the Grip isn't
a raid buff train for like.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
They're trying to start like a hashtag and uh and
plead their case to you know, the public, the devs.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
I guess, well, yeah, I mean the Blizzard did double
down last week. They said specifically, hey, yeah, the whole
Rainbow situation, Well, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna
kill Aba on limb and we're gonna uh buff AMZ
for raid and make more stuff grippable, Like if that
becomes your raid buff half fun DK is like now
you should be happy, but.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
Crazy, Like the AMZ is fucking so good. Like the
version of AMZ they have right now is like, especially
with the way the fights will play out this year,
is like it's just like the best utility that any
class in the game.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Well, do you think you would play a DK if
it was not not as tuned as if you ever dpspecs?

Speaker 3 (15:32):
Man, it just depends how far off. Like in Raid,
tuning is usually like pretty close. Like there's classes are
usually pretty viable all the time. And if one of
your classes is bringing a fifteen percent is basically bringing
discret barrier, same cool down, almost the same dr. I mean,
that's fucking insane. That's crazy, crazy insane. Not that it

(15:55):
should be nerved, That's fine, I guess for now.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, I'm.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Just I'm just I'm just telling you how it is.
It's fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, yeah, I mean AMS is definitely there will be
fights where it's sick right like where and the thing.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Is that it's sick in like every scenario.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
In a way that the other raid buffs don't. But
it's also like dead in spots where other raid buffs aren't.
You know, a fight like slunchfist, it's just all physical
damage and like.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
That's like I think sledge Fist is the only fight
I think in the last like four years where this
ability would not be very insane.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
And then also like if if stacking is battle though,
you can always kind of make that work, it's just
something that.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
You only needed to work once every three minutes, so right,
you'll find a spot.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Then the I guess the main thing is just like
it really sucks for the unplus side of of things
for them.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
I mean that, Yeah, for sure, it's worse in mythic
plus than it was in most scenarios before, but that
it's the it doesn't address the tank DPS disparity thing
which we talked about last week, because like you just
don't need a DEPSDK to bring that AMZ. It's just easy.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Well, but you can have two dkys, right, because I
mean AMZ is not unique, so that's something you could
sack technically.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, it's it's like blood, right, It's like stacking of
vokres yeah, you know, but it's the same thing, like
every every bit of a reason you're bringing a voker
to a raid. By bringing more of them, you're you
were multiplying that reason why you brought them. I mean
you could you could bring four y k's like the
last time they had uncapped am Z. Yeah, that's what
you did the last raid that that happened.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, if their damage is also good and it's just
like completely free, and it's like, hey, do we want
the spect that does a zillion damage and also brings
am Z. Yes, we want as many of those as
we have as we have free spots. So yeah, I
don't know. It's it's tough because like, even though it's
objectively very powerful, I think it should say something when

(17:48):
a large like majority of the community of a class
does not want their respect to be like valuable because
of something like GRIP and am Z and they just
want an actual raid buff.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, I mean, haven't we been saying the same thing,
Like it's like the only logical solution. Like it seems
like like basically, if you're a DK player, you see
the writing on the wall. They're gonna say even if
they get it right, this tier and like grips are
fucking great, you know, like P two of Dementius or
maybe P one of Dementius and Nexus King, like like
there's a few potentially very valuable grips. Yeah, but like

(18:26):
they're just like okay, well what happens when they just
forget to do that?

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Right?

Speaker 3 (18:29):
Or if I'm a DPSDK, it's like going to a
blood K because their grip is But if you if
you give a you have a raid buff, that's just
like a permanent solution, right, You'd rather have the thing
that every other class has, makes sense?

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Do you think AMZ Do you think you would be
happy if you were a DK mane and the like
tank DPS discrepancy was fixed and the AMZ was the
source of was like the source of value of the
raid buff because it is very powerful and it is
different than other effects.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Well, does it guarantee your raid spot? You know, like
a Havoc demonuter would It's like guaranteed a spot.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
I think it's probably guarantees like two.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
It's better than yeah, yeah, yeah, the uh it's yeah,
it's yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
The problem is the two that it guarantees right now
are heavily weighted towards blood rather than DPS. But if
that was fixed, I wonder if it would be one
of the things where it's like, Okay, this actually is
functionally because like Evoker doesn't have a red buff and
we still always see them because they're their utility suite
is just valuable enough to be the same type thing. Right.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
If I'm a DK and I'm not happy until we
get a sixty minute raid buff that puts one of
us in the raid at all times, that would be
my answer.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Do you think I Voker should got one of those
two or do you think that their utility suitet.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Is I believe they have one, right, Sorry.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Sorry, I can't believe I forgot about Blessing of the
Brons bad there.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, yeah, has Evoker been in every raid so far? Yes,
release it's also odd, but.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Tier that is true this this last rate. I don't
think dev was ope in progression until like the the
farm buffs and then it got like the version of
APIs right now is crazy. That's not what it was
in progression. But yeah, we sat them on a few
fights this year, so they were not u but not

(20:23):
not unlike an entire raid they've they've had, They've they
every single patch. They've had one class that's just completely
absurd og for like a year after it got released.
Pres dude, I think the most broken one was Flame
Shape or PRES, which, like I don't know if you
guys are paying attention, but like Flame Shaper PRES is
a you know, I have no idea how good they are.
If I did, I wouldn't say anything. It's more like

(20:45):
the a lot of the stuff that they nerved in
season one for Flame Shaper, PRES is like unnerved, you know,
and they got sicked here. So we'll see how that
plays out. Yea.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
If you're a PRES evoker, how excited are you hearing
that the last boss's arena is the size of store Wind, Like.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Oh no, it's only only for P one. There's no
way of saying that the raid will be spread out
on that massive platform, like do you ever care? Maybe?
I mean, but P two, like the P two platform
after you Dragon ride is reasonable. In the last phase
shrinks in space like razig f P three, So that's fine,
Like the hardest part of that phase. Everyone's going to

(21:22):
be in range of you, right And in P one,
you remember the Nazath mechanic where like everyone had to
line up and like you have a little spread thing
around you and everyone can't be stacked on each other.
And then it drops a little pool that exists in
P one as like airy denial of you using that
whole platform. So there's a couple other mechanics that could
maybe make you split or whatever, but you could theoretically
be like a pretty stacked raid for that massive platform too.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
So I don't know how much you guys know about
Dementsia is like how much of everything the arena is
actually being used? Because it's supposed to be a massive boss, right, it's.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
Only P one and with the map boss, the boss
is really is not massive in P three and you
don't fight him in P two, but in P one
you start and you kill him from one hundred percent
to zero in P one.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Like how much of a verna are you actually using
in that P one?

Speaker 3 (22:14):
I guess you could assume potentially all of it. I
can explain to you how it works, but I don't
think our viewers will be very interested in like an
explanation of that phase. But I mean potentially all of it.
But the fight seems to do you have you seen volcanos?
Do you remember volcanos. Yeah, like you would start as
a raid, you'd be together and then like the very
first sow could go off and then you kind of

(22:34):
just like moved apart. So you're either going to start
in the raid at in the middle in that phase,
and then you're going to split into two groups of
ten and by the end of the phase you're each
going to be on each edge, which would mean that
you as a player are only going around half the room,
but you as a raid are traversing all of it,
if that makes sense. And or you could start at

(22:56):
the edge and do a reverse volcanos or like the
end of volcross, if that makes sense, and then come together,
or you could find a way to go as a
raid fully all the way from left to right. We
don't know. I would say the that that it's either
volcaross P one P one's movement is like vulcross, or
it's like, uh, it's gonna kind of feel like nasof
like do you remember did you do in Nazov? Like

(23:18):
it how you like kind of your rate is like
moving from one side to another and then you're moving
because you're dropping those things that it could play out
exactly like that for example.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, it's not to clarify, it's not actually a storm
wind sized like P one.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, correct, Yeah, you're not gonna you're.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
On like a You're on some kind of platform of
some size, and then you fly to these two void
lord ads and then you do P three.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
In a different position with him being much smaller. That's
not it's and also the way the mechanics work out
in the phase, you're not like randomly running across like
a storm wind size area. It's just like a regular
That's what I thought it would be, because across something
of that size.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
Maybe would that actually be interesting? Like what what if
you straight up just had like your entire fucking raid
group just split up and you're just beating up parts
of the mansias like you have like a group go
to uh the mage quarter, and let one go to
old Town and one go to like dwarf and District,
and then you just have like you know, trade district people.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
There was that fight and there was kind of like
the right dragons a nightmare? Didn't you U? Did you
kind of split.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Your oh I kin remember?

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Yeah, I mean into like those portals.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, I don't know at that point, like what are
we doing here?

Speaker 3 (24:29):
Yeah, definitely what are we doing here?

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Angle, Like you could just go and do two different
dungeons with your with your guild at the same time
and like talk on voice and have more fun probably
I think than a fight like that.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah, fight looks fucking sick though the raid it's really.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Dungeon Journal, Like has there been an end boss with
I guess Inserrex Dungeon Journal was similarly comprehensive even on
mythic right.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
Uh no, I your line of thinking that you're on
right now is very correct. It is. It is since
you haven't tested end bosses, so it's been a few years.
I actually can't remember the last raid boss that we
publicly tested, so Savanas we did, like I remember doing
Heroic Silvanas.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
That was the last one.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
That was the last one, Okay, Yeah, So like since
Silvana's you've had to, like I've had to look at
end bosses in the Dungeon Journal and be like, this
is how we're going to prepare our whole tier based
on your ability to comprehend a Dungeon Journal, And I
would say this is by far the easiest boss to understand.
By doing that, there's usually like things that just don't
quite make sense. Like I remember even on Answerk, you're
reading the P two like portal mechanic right, and you're like, okay,

(25:34):
like how the fuck are they going to do that?
And like initially it was it wasn't even the way
it was now. It was actually only the tanks get ported.
And then it's like, okay, well, how about how are
you going to deal with They're like a tank is
leaving the platform, like, uh, it is very confusing. So
I would say, yeah, you're you're right in that it
is right now. I think it is like extremely easy
to understand how the mythic end Boss is going to

(25:55):
play out, and you could like raid plan kind of
the whole thing outside of the timings of how things
line up together.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Which means that it's basically hard confirmed that there's a
secret mythic phase so that they can still have something
that is secret. Uh and and here, so.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
There's a one chance that there is not a secret
phase on this foss. Unfortunately for all of our viewers,
there's there's absolutely Okay, yeah, did.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
You guys know we killed this boss back in TVC. Yeah,
it was a quest.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
It was a quest Boss I did not, and he's
just been didn't sitting there just like getting steaming mad
the whole time.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah. Now he's a big blueberry pissed.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, big bench energy for sure.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Do you know they they did like four podcasts in
the space of our our one episode last week. Yeah,
it's crazy they've been blasting.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Oh dude. I saw this one comment I think TV
was give TV streaming and this one guy was chatting.
He was like, so, I'm a fan of the Race
war Firs and like, mba YadA. Yeah. Yeah, And how
is it that I can never escape titles? And that's like,
actually so true. It's no matter where you go, you
will encounter Tittles in the fact that seems to be
kind of the wild space where you just like, like

(27:08):
when Daddles mentioned the whole break and metal thing and
being involved in it, I'm like, what the fuck? Like,
how is everyone just always involved in all these different
events and it's always the same people.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yeah, I has t Ttles still making people mad as
hell on there or what is that is that?

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, he's been telling me one button oh dude.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah. They their most recent one was about the one
button thing being bad for.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
The game, which that's kind of tittles is a whole
bit recently because like so, I don't know if you
guys saw it, but the one button rotation is actually
insane on boom Can. Yeah, I was pugging an eighteen
key with Boomkin one button rotation and I was actually
destroying this frosty k and arcane mage, like they still
no chance. They should have just been doing the one

(27:56):
button rotation too. It's actually really powerful and it actually
kind of opened my eyes. Like when I was playing
with one button rotation, the game actually turned out to
be so much more simple than I initially made it
out to be. Or like how a lot of people
like envision World of woll Craft, right, because when you're
thinking of whut you think of like all these complex

(28:17):
mechanics and rotations and all that. But when you don't
have rotation part of the game where you're just sing
one button, I can just like, so my my cognitive
load so free and open. I mean, yeah, it's kind
of cool. It's kind of like eye opening in a
way where it's like, man, the game actually isn't that hard.
It's just.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
That yeah, yeah, the part that is the hard part.
While doing that with everything else. But yeah, you're yeah,
it's like it's almost like if people want to become
shot callers and mythic plus and you're a Moonkin player,
just like fucking throw on to have someone throw on
the one button rotation. Just have someone like be the
best shot caller of all time now that they're their
brain is freed up.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, I do think it's fair to say that's probably
a bad thing. Oh yeah, Like yeah, if the right
move for a key group is to have your shot calls.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Especially like a high key group, like the people at
the bleeding edge of things, like taking that kind of
a damage reduction, Like that's that's that's pretty bad. Like
the thing is like like we were thinking about this
for Splits too. It's like, okay, like you can take
a list of specs where the one button rotation is
actually good, and like I am almost positive that if
we can't force anyone to do anything, but we're like, hey, guys,

(29:25):
we would actually be it'd be beneficial to all of
us if you guys just threw on that one button
rotation real quick. If you play this, this and this
and this and just like be more aware because like
these I mean obviously, like they're seeing the ray for
the first time, so they're just like turbo dying to
everything on harder bosses. I mean that would make our
thing more efficient, right, And I mean you could boil
that down to the rest of the game to where
if if people We've said this before, like kind of

(29:48):
the only downside of that one button rotation is if
people who want to have fun playing the game feel
like they are either pressured to or feel like they
have to use it for either performance gains or to
not be a bird to people, and that that that
interaction is like bad, that's really shitty. And I don't
if that ends up happening. It looks like it certainly could.
I don't know if it will, but if that, if
that becomes widespread, they would definitely need to do something

(30:10):
about that.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, I think the good news is like there's room
to nerve it a little for the specs that that's
true for and still have it be like that feeling
of calm and oh, this game isn't actually that overwhelming,
and have that be true for the people that actually
want to opt into it without making it, you know,
a damage gain or.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Yeah, because there is good it's not explosively negative. Like
there's there's people who actually it turns out they don't
care about being good at this game, and if all
they could do is just press the one button and
not be a burden, that is like the best news
they've heard in forever.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Yeah. Now, there are also people who want to do
top damage while pressing one button, and I do think
that they and I can't be happy at the same time.
But I mean, I think most people should be able
to be happy at the same time with this thing.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
I want to see them to take it one step
forever and just have zero button rotation, where like it
just auto does your rotation. Yes, I mean it could
be it could be tiring.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
Just that. Is that what you experienced in that key?

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Oh yeah? Yeah. I was just like sitting there because
like I was just like super locked in on Mechanics
app and I was doing a flood game and I'm
just looking at all right, the shredding there is about
to do the thing, and then I was like just
staring at that bar of entire time while hitting my
archy rapidly and well able to just bind. Yeah yeah,
yeah you could. Yeah, yeah, that's what uh.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Is the in game hockey still bad in game?

Speaker 1 (31:28):
What do you mean the one where you like hold
the button down and it's casting the same thing.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, I just I just know that it is inferior
to actually using auto hockey. I just don't know if
they made it better. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
I don't, I don't. It's well that thing there's like
there's like a mode you can make it so if
you hold down one, it just keeps casting.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
So what what auto hockey with one button? No?

Speaker 3 (31:50):
I mean yeah, I think so, yeah, of course, yeah,
I mean so so. So all it does is like
what auto hockey does, is it just it's a program,
And if you're holding the two thing on your keyboard
when it's act doing is just spamming too. But you
just don't have to keep spamming your key It's not
a deeps increase or anything like that. It's like purely
just what you prefer, and they built that into wow.
But I know, like auto hockey users are like like

(32:12):
they're like, oh great, I don't have to do that
out of hockey anymore. But it's just like worse. It
just doesn't doesn't work as well. I just don't But
that was when it came out. I don't know if
they fixed. That's why I brought it up.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Bro, I'm just like imagining in the race war first
someone using the one button rotation. Bad fucking don't.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
There's every way and is it not? It is still
a damage a lot. Like you're saying it's good for
movie kids, but like you as a moon kid not
using it. I mean there's I was.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Doing like eight mil overall when I could probably be
doing ten mill instead.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
So I mean, do you think something like the Hunter
kicking the coins on bandit, Yeah, exactly, like someone who
is something like world first, because.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Like no, because the Hunter is already basically doing that
by playing their spec by I mean seriously, especially like
current Yeah, yeah, but no, I never I mean you're
you mentioned like you're doing eight mil set of ten mil,
like the if you're doing like nine point seven mil,
that isn't good enough to be doing this, you know
what I mean in that like relative scenario. So I

(33:12):
mean like there's, yeah, there's no way you'd ever use it.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, I mean for a good chunk of players, but
that that's super worthing. In fact, I think you could
straight up get to like title keys and you could
easily get cutting edge by using this. In fact, I
think it I think a lot of people would be
surprised by how much better this would be ven them
actually playing the game, because it is pretty insane, like.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Like there are some specs where it griefs ye.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
Right, Like that's also it is bad for a few people.
But I did think about like specific Blizzard negativity. I
had someone call my chat and they're like, dude, they
never fixed stuff going into a patch, and I'm like,
I feel like the way you're looking at it is
like they you never think about something actually getting fixed.
You're just like when things don't get fixed, it's whatever.
And then when it's fixed, like okay, that's how it
should have been. So like the one button rotation, people

(34:02):
were like, oh dude, Blizerd's gonna be so fucking dog
shit at this, Like this shit's gonna suck. The rotations
are gonna be bad. And now, like the other complaints
that were hearing was like this is too good, and
it's like the Blizzard like can't win. Yeah, you know,
it's like it's never it's never like okay or working.
It's either like bad in one direction or bad in
the other twenty year old game problems.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
I mean, to be fair, it is really hard to
make like a one button rotation bow will actually be
satisfying for the community. Is either too good or too
bad like most of the times, and it's kind of
hard to like have a fine line.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Okay, do you guys want to do? Uh? You just
want to do Patreon question? Now, I'm sure you're right.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
After Yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
This week's Patreon question comes in from Cookie and it says, hello,
pod lads. With the anascement of eleven point two and
the void demon hunter speculation, currently, what is a new
class respect that y'all have designed or thought of For
a few years, I've had a physical range even hunter
speck in my head that'd be themed around the night
Alf Wardens. Dragonfly season three had the Wardens reconciled with
the with mages that kind of didn't mean anything or

(35:08):
go anywhere, and I thought that would have been a
better storyline, uh, to reconcile with demon Hunters in the
creation of the new spec. Are there any other classes
with the potential for a new spec? If so, which
pod by from Australia? Okay, so there they've sent in
a lower reason one. Are there any like gameplay based
or LARE based or anything like that specs that either

(35:29):
of you have, you know, envisioned, because I suspect a
loare based spec is maybe maybe too much to ask for.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
I've never thought of this.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, okay, for me, a LARE based spec would be
like a mana tank like sort of a spell breaker
you know you don't like a spell breaker.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
In yeah, like from Warcraft again.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Yeah, well like where you kind of like manage your
manner survived in sort of some sort of like language.
Sure how it would play exactly, but it would probably
be very similar to blood YK. I would imagine what
kind of like your resource is your.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
HP bar h I mean yeah for tanking like that
theme is so fun gameplay wise, anything like blood YK
is just like the Goat, I would say, Like for DPS,
I would definitely want some kind of really high risk,
high rewards spec. This this can't exist in WOW for

(36:29):
like an obvious reason. But I'm talking like Surrender to
Madness or like like maybe the most op version of
Breath of Sindra Gosa or whatever, where it's like it's
actually so fucking hard to do it. But if you
pull it off, you're just actually gonna beat everyone, and
that can't be in the game because then everyone's mad
if you can't do exactly this thing and it's not

(36:51):
tuned in balance. But that I'm okay with that because
I don't care, right, I would be that would be
what I want.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Do you know about how bluem Age works in Final Fantasy. Yeah,
it's like a it's a class that you can only
play in non serious stuff and it's it's just like,
uh kind of an rpeer spec basically where you can
abilities and stuff. And yeah, I think something like that

(37:18):
for a WOW would be really cool, although obviously it
would be a bunch of design time for something that
wouldn't matter for me at all. Really well, I guess
I would. I would engage that, but it wouldn't matter
for like high end gameplay at all. Right, But if
they made like a tinker that had different inventions and stuff,
and it's like, yeah, you can't use this in Raid,
but and like it's just for delving and outdoor world
stuff and like the you know, barm and mog or

(37:41):
those kind of things, and you just have like four
hundred different inventions or whatever instead of a talent tree
that you you build or things. I think that could
be sick.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yes, that's not really, it's being of high skill kipt DPS.
I was thinking something like in Volker and Building. You
guys know what it is. No, yeah, it's where you
mix and match elements and you have like so basically,
Invoker only has four different abilities. It's a mobile right,
So but with those four abilities you can combine up

(38:10):
to like thirty something different spells. So like you know,
if you put like fire and ice you get something,
or like fire nerve you get something else.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
Oh yeah they did this in last Epoch too.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yes, just like this the best ye most fun class
by far design wise and last EPAK. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah, that's just pretty awesome. Uh ar Kana in Lost
Arc is something similar to this two where you like,
you draw two cards and they have different effects. So
depending on what cards you get, you will play your
skills differently, like one might empower visibility or one might
be like a stacking buff. And I think that's like
really cool. It's like super high level or high skill

(38:53):
capped gameplay, but it's super rewarding if you can pull
it off. It's probably too hard though for.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, the problem is all the specs that those words
have been true for in the game's history or like
you know, like Legion, Outlaw, Rogue or all these specs
are people are like this is way too complicated. I
need seven weekors to track all the different things that
can happen to me, and like, uh, the.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Game is they're fucking goaded. Though, yeah, there's a reason
they exist. There's also a reason that they were removed,
but I'm here for the reason that they existed.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Hell yeah, it is super insane all those types of classes.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
I would also say frost Fire Mage, like whenever I
play any random game, like any game, like if I'm
doing a fucking like like a sponsored stream of some
shitty game that I'm never going to play again, but
like I'm choosing my class on it, and they have
some kind of frost fire Mage, Like I know there's
a hero talent for that right now in the game,
but like, I just feel like the weaving of frost
and fire as a class is just like super fucking cool.

(39:50):
More on the lower side actually, which probably wouldn't expect
fro me here, but like any class that's built like that,
like an actual mage spec like I would be. I
would be I would play the shit out of that.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
I just love that.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, same, Actually I think god Torchlight Infinite has one
of those, and that was definitely that was.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Like, that was the one that's the well I apologize
for calling it a shitty game, but like that's literally
the one that came up in my head.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, that's a crazy guess.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
I mean, yeah, I guess it wouldn't be too crazy
because like the there hasn't been that many games I've
played with like an exact frost Fire character. I mean
there was one. There was one. It was actually a
sponsor deal that we got back as limit and like
this this so this was like seven years ago, and
this really random like mobile mmo called I think it
was like World of Kings.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Oh my god. Was that the one that you and
me did the dungeon in?

Speaker 3 (40:46):
It might have been, yeah, I would I.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Think I remember doing a dungeon with like you.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Was it Maybe that was a different game that was
very similar, but like, okay, so when we were playing
that game, I was doing it with one other person
who actually did do that other game with me, and
I was saying the whole time, I was like dude,
this game is exactly like and I was referring to
World of Kings, so you played basically World of Kings,
but like when I played like actual World of Kings,

(41:12):
it was like, dude, I'm so down, I'm like playing this,
I'm playing this character. I just have to play a
frost Fire Mage. I'm immediately drawn to it. Yeah, speaking
of that, frost Fire Mage's packed. This patch. Frost Mage
has fucking ignite. It's crazy and it's good. That sounds
so cool.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yeah, some of the set phones look so look. Yeah,
we talked about it in the last episode as well,
but there are some bangers and a lot of not bangers,
but there are some real bangers. The major ones, I
mean it's almost the major ones, but like most of
the major ones look great as prett usual.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah, so I played around with it a little bit more.
I mean, I guess like actually getting too playing in
content today for the first time. And it's kind of
cool when you have one of your abilities just pop off,
because you know how last week I was saying how
these hero talents are just gonna or these which you

(42:08):
call it tear sets, are you gonna just double down?
You have tier set bonuses are just gonna double down
on your hero talent and it's already doing a large
chunk of your damage, but it actually feels really good.
If you're playing something like Colossus and you hit your
demolish and your demolish actually pops off, it kind of
gives off that classic feeling of like when you hit
your button you feel it doing something, because that's like

(42:31):
something retail has lacked for the longest time, where it's
like you hit your buttons and you don't really feel
it's kind of just like one of your buttons that
you're supposed to be putting on cool down or something
that you're supposed to just maintain. But yeah, it's kind
of like a beefy feeling you just have one thing
doing so much damage.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Interesting. Yeah, my guess was that I was not going
to enjoy like moving demolished from one global that does
twenty percent of my damage to one global that does
thirty percent of my damage. But uh, I know you
also thought that. And then if you're if you're saying
it's if it actually it actually is like somehow moving
it to a spot where it's it's better.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Now, I wouldn't say that for all, like for some
it is kind of stupid, Like but Propouder right now,
Hammer and Anvil is like literally half your damage, and
I don't think it's healthy for the game.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
That's the light Smith one.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Anything that makes me play Lightsmith instead of Templar on
prop Paladin, I'm immediately against. I hate it.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah that's fair, all right?

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Uh, what other stuff? How do you guys want to
talk about? I think we covered mostly all the two stuff.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Do we want to look at these interview stuff? I
know Max really looked at it the stream.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Oh yeah, there was something that's talking about there was
that interview, but we looked at we looked at some
of the I think we looked at one question of
it in last episode.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Yeah, I read. I read through it. There was some
like half questions are like pretty whatever and then they
give an obvious, very whatever answer to it. But there
was actually a few that were pretty interesting. Okay, let
me find it. Oh, okay, here's one. So the question
was and we may have even talked about this last week,
but I don't know if we looked at their answer.

(44:16):
We saw dungeon complexity difficulty decrease last season, which to
a lot of players having more fun. Recently, you've seen
feedback that mythic guilds that mythic rate is getting harder
and less fun due to ever increasing complexity. Any plans
to do a complexity decrease for the rate in season three.
He gives a bunch of a bunch of responses here,
and the one that I find interesting is they're like, Okay,
there's like things that you have to do, you have

(44:37):
to u There's difficulty that can come from your ability
to control your character dodge lasers, pickup bombs, carry them
from place to place. There's difficulty that can come from
how much time and effort you've dedicated your character in
your gear. There's difficulty that can come from how good
your strategy and your ability to collaborate with other players is.
And then they say, I think we may try to
pull slightly back on the first of those. The twitchiness
of gameplay that I think is a place where we'd

(44:58):
like to take rating over on the future is a
place where's a little bit more about strategy and your
ability to play your character very high level. And you
mentioned something about like nax aramis the Huygen dance. You know,
that stuff like that isn't going anywhere. But we feel
like specifically dodge mechanics have gone too far. And I
was thinking, like, of things that people don't like about
mythic raid, they like, what are bosses that are like

(45:21):
really majorly defined by dodge mechanics, Like rash hooks one
of them, Banger Kivez is one of them, Banger Danathrius
entirely defined by massacre. That that that I think when
I read that, I was perplexed because I feel like
those aren't mechanics. Those those the bosses that are the

(45:42):
most majorly defined by that mechanic they want to make easier,
are ones that people actually really like.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
I think it depends on how you like. You could
also look at it as like three second tindril seeds,
zero second dancerc web blades that are just like.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
The answer web blades are an example of that being bad,
but like tendril seeds are a totally different thing.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Right, Well, there's it's still and heuristics and stuff to that,
but then when it's three seconds, there's also like you
just need to be you know, under the age of
twenty five or whatever to be good of that mechanic
or grandfathered in if you've been writing forever whatever, you know.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yeah, I mean I do remember saying at the beginning
of Dispatch specifically where there's like too many swirlies. Nowadays,
I don't I don't know if it was just amplified
because of the visual changes or because of you.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Mean, like the gallery is one where you're running out
and there's just like seven hundred swirlies you can see.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Yeah, yeah, there's just like little swirlies and there's that's not.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Actually hard to dodge. Like the reason that's hard to
dodge isn't because you're failing a reaction check. It's because
you're like cutting each other.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Off, right, But I mean it's not so much the
like the time required two dodge of these swirlies. It's
more so abundance of swirlies. And it can't even get
really annoying if you're playing a cast kind of like
a carnage of whatever the hell it's called the Second Boss.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
Like that where you're just like you feel like it's just.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Like swirl is all over fucking place and that's kind
of obnoxious.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know, I would agree with you,
Maxident like dodging is usually pretty fun. Like it's usually
pretty fun mechanic. But I do think that the level
of reaction time that has been tested by some of
the hardest mythic bosses over the past couple of years,
like even fire Act Blazes before they slowed those down,
Tindril seeds before they slowed those down, Answark web blades

(47:28):
before they sloid those down.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
All of those are like, well, Answerk web Blades wasn't
about slowing down. I think the biggest issue at that
was just the animation was just terrible.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
But even without that, like the when there was the
four extra one and yeah there was the one in
the so in P. Three you would get like web blades,
dodge balls, web blades again, right that one though, that
spot where you got like two web blades within fifteen
seconds they cut one of those out of the fight.
But for a while there was that spot there where
you're just like you are just in a bullet hell,

(47:58):
you know, fifteen second section of the fight, which I
don't know, I think that's I think that I think
on those fights in particular, it did get a little
bit more twitch reaction emphasis then would be good. Then
that would be like ideal.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
I was thinking, like class game plays more twitching nowadays
than ever before. That's like a bigger yeah. I mean
it kind of depends on what class you play, like
you know, al La, Rogue something like that. In particular,
it would be like a higher a PM spec. Some
specs are pretty high APM.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
I think that's good though, because you don't have to
play them like there are area, there's there's there's specs
in this game that are easy. There are specs that
are harder, and there are specs that are slow, and
there are specs that are fast. I think all of
those things are good.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Yeah, I mean that that isphere. Yeah, So I have
a question for you guys, what kind of mechanics would
you say are good and bad en Raid.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
I don't even know if you can classify as like
the type of mechanic really unless you want to talk
about like very specific way bosses work, Like I mean,
one that I would always cherry pick is just like
I just find bosses where they're very rare, where you
can like kind of choose how the boss is going
to do things, like the lace En style like that.
That mechanic I think is really cool. But in general,
like if you're talking about like dodges versus holding bombs

(49:27):
versus whatever, Like, I think any mechanic, and I think
there's examples of basically every kind of mechanic they've made
that are really good, and how twitchy or whatever the
requirement is is just about how much or how little
time they get it to and it's not like just
make everything slower. There are mechanics that if you made
them too slow or too easy, it just would mean
completely nothing to you. The best bosses are ones where

(49:47):
it's challenging enough but fair and you actually feel rewarded
for learning how to do it right right. So I
don't I don't know if if there's any specific mechanic,
it's just it's gonna sound real stupid, but like they're
pretty much every kind of mechanic can be good if
they just make it good.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
And I think their answer is pretty much like they
have an answer in one of these questions that's basically
the same thing right where it's like, you know, yeah,
we like all of these. All of these are an
important part of a balanced breakfast. I definitely definitely agree
with that as well. I think my personal favorites are
the ones any mechanic where it is both punishing but

(50:26):
also you can recover from, like recover and adapt to
things going a little bit away from plan like. Those
are my favorite kind of mechanics where where you can
save the raid by having like you know, having somebody
make a good backup or something like that. Those and
there are some fights where that's not really possible, and
those ones are kind of less Those fights tend to
be less fun for me, where it's just like, yeah,

(50:48):
everybody has to do exactly they're their assigned job, and
if one person dies or you know, has something weird
happen to them, there's no way for anybody else to say,
but it's just.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Over, yeah, well I have a mechanic. I don't like
it's the ones where only some people get assigned to
do these jobs, like kind of like when I'm a
banded of the person who does the coin right. One
where you have to like somebody has to do a
job and they basically have to lose damage doing it.
I find those to be kind of lame if it

(51:18):
don't happen as much nowadays, But.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
I mean those are like that's that's because of the
way you solve the fight like a blizzard made the fight.
I don't think they're like one person's gonna throw coins.
In fact, even when we were like preparing for the fight,
we had two and three, we had a single coin
assign to someone. Also, a BM hunter doesn't lose any
damage doing that for what it's worth if you do
it correctly. But I don't know. I think having a
small group of people do a mechanic is cool when

(51:41):
when done right in a raid specifically.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Yeah, I guess to me, the downfall of that is
where if they are the only people with like a
hard job and the rest of the rate rate is
just waiting for them to get it right, like that's just.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
A bad boss, you know, that is not I think
that the mechanic is less of the issue more than there.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Yeah, I don't think this because it's not like you
usually weren't waiting for your hunter to figure out how
to kick the coins like that. That was not usually
how that fight went. Your hunter getting better meant that
they were doing more and more damage, but like they
were usually hitting most of their shots after.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
The first So like kill Jayden, like you get into
the last phase of kill Jayden, and you like, they
have all these pylons out and the best thing to
do is for everyone to not memorize where the right
spot is. You're just gonna wait for one person to
put a marker down and then that's where you're gonna
stand and you just kind of trust that person. It's
kind of the same thing. You get into that phase
and it's just like someone puts a marker on their

(52:32):
gun and you go there and you just throw your
hands up and hope you don't die, you know, and
you're gonna kill that boss as fast as that person
progresses learning that mechanic, and you're putting all your faith
in them, and that's but I feel like those are fine.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
I mean, I also feel like it just makes it
for like two different fights because like if you don't
have that person that's like doing that job, you don't
you can't really get a good rate night progression. I mean,
it's kind of the same as like like the second
boss Carnage Bass again, like the one who has to
do the toys. I mean, I know that's a pretty
smple mechanic, but stuff like that is just I'm not

(53:02):
a huge fan of those types of mechanics.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Where like one person has a harder job and then
the rest of their it is maybe.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Waiting on them, maybe not necessarily a harder job, but
like just a different job.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Ueah, Yeah, I like those. Yeah, I do like them too,
And also like again, like huldering a card is a
perfect example. It becomes the easiest path of resistance to
have one person do it. But like the way they
design that fosson and a way you absolutely could have
done it is just like hey, guys, if you see
one of these things near you, just like kind of
kick it to the middle and then we'll have like
one person just do one more kick. But it's it's

(53:34):
meant to be collaborative and have both sides work together.
And there are mechanics where that is actually how it
turns out, and you don't actually have one person do it,
you have a group of people doing it. And I
agree with your I notes, I'm I actually like stuff
like that.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Okay, any other interview questions we want to pull out.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
There was one so did you see that they responded
to stops?

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Yeah, so they asked a question and how do you
feel the change the stops has gone? One that we
have talked about a lot where like their emphasis on it, like, hey,
we're gonna put the power back and specifically kicks because
it stops being so pe kicks don't matter, so we
want kicks to be the thing that make these things
no longer cast. They mentioned something that I actually didn't
know but I actually looked up and actually ended up

(54:18):
being true, which is we think the game is in
a healthier place overall with the way it works now,
more within and most of Wow's lifespan. So actually, for
like a ton of Wow, this is actually exactly how
it worked. If you stopped a really important spell, it
was going to keep casting. Yeah, exactly. So there was
actually only like I think a dragonflight change.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Yeah, it was literally just yeah, it's a new change.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
Bro, I didn't even know that I've been and I
did a ton of dungeons I did. I did as
many MDI dungeons as or not md I. Uh was
it challenge mode dungeons as anyone was? Like, I know,
mop classon fight Really I could have, bro.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Remember when they brought back on the right and the
maggots used to or not the maggots of the lashers
Flashers used to recast but the games all the time. Yeah,
and now you just like stop at one said it
just well in dragonfla back.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's I had the same reaction
you did, Dryna. So I read that and I was like,
that's not right, and then I fucking went back and
looked at like, wait, that is right?

Speaker 2 (55:20):
What the fuck?

Speaker 3 (55:21):
So okay he said that said I think the changes
we made in season two, specifically to how often things
cast at all and how long cast bars are, and
then they didn't mention this, but I think they also
meant like how visual the the like really important casts
are puts us in a healthier place that I think
we all agree with, right, like having having having the

(55:42):
important cast be longer and how often they cast it
outside of like the stops thing and them looking important.
If they are important, that is all good. But that's
not what this question was about. They're they're asking about
the other thing. You're still seeing keys pushed up into
the twenties even after this change, and we do understand
that it requires a little bit more coordination at a

(56:03):
high level to execute some of these bigger pools, but
I think that's acceptable. You're at the bleeding edge of
the system, and that's okay. The core experience of the
one to ten or even up to twelve is very
doable and very reasonable even in a PUG setting after
the change. So in summary, we're happy with it. We
think we added some texture to creatures and player abilities,
and no changes are planned at the moment your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
I actually didn't like his answer for when they dismissed
it as like, oh, you know, from the one to
ten range, even up to twelves, it's completely fine because
people are able to do it. Well, I mean, that's
that's like true, But at the same time they don't
really like, see why exactly it's true. It's true because
it becomes a healer burden. Like we've talked about this
many times. When kicks are just going off in a

(56:44):
one to twelve key range, that's literally just like all right, well,
it's the Euler problem, right, It's like people aren't going
to use their kicks and stops at key levels. So yeah, like,
on one hand, they are correct in the sense that
like it's fine for them to go off, but on
the over hand, it really sucks when you're a healer
in these keys doing the lower keys, and it feels
like you're just requiring more healing in those keys, event

(57:05):
in a higher key because like at Higer Keys, obviously
people are actually trying to kick and stop all the casts.
But yeah, like it just becomes a healer job and
I don't think that's a good solution to it. That
and also like them talking about slowing down important casts,
the problem is like at a certain key level, like
not even up to twenties. Straight up, just if you
have two bolts go off from some mob in priory

(57:30):
or rookery, Like in rookery, you will have those thunderers
that are just spam casting boats, Like I'm pretty sure
it's like a one point one second cast, which is
just absolutely ridiculous, and if two three of them go off,
it's someone just dies and there's very little counterplay. Too bad.
So I didn't really like that answer to this question,
but I also kind of see where they're coming from.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Yeah, I mean, obviously, like I disagree about whether the
game would be better if they were heard of the
change than they do so to something and they're kind
of justifying their side, So I'm Mola's gonna disagree with that.
It's definitely true that they brought up some true things.
The game is better when spells are well telegraphed and

(58:15):
easy to understand and have, you know, a good visual
language for what's going on with a spell and stuff
like that. Like that's that's true with or without the
stop change being in there. And it's also true that
people are doing high keys and doing low keys and
having you know, a lot of fun this season with
this change being in there. I would argue that it's
despite this change, not because of this change in any way.
But it's clearly not like that big a deal. As

(58:37):
far as you know, there's one of the best time
plus seasons ever and this change is here, so it
clearly doesn't single handedly killed them. Plus I do think
it would be better if it was reverted. Yeah, I will,
I'll stick to that. I agree, Like it puts more
of the burden on the healer. It also puts more
of the burden on AoE stops like it counterintuitively you
read it and you think, like, oh, this is they're
they're taking the stop meataw away right, Like that was

(58:59):
some of the stuff I saw when they first announced
this was people celebrating and moved the import further onto
AOI stops not not taken away, which I think you
know if you if you examined, for instance, what was
said about this change before it was made and what

(59:20):
the reactions of the people that were in favor of
it were back then, you'll see that there's been there's
been some changing of like people explaining the people who
think it's good have explained, have changed why they think
it's good because it hasn't done that big thing that
they was one of the goals with it at all.
But it is nice. The game works consistently, I guess,
But I just don't think it's that. I don't think
it's that big a deal that a mob in whaling

(59:42):
caverns works the same way as a mob and an
mplus dungeon. If if they've invented a way that's better
for high level content, which they did, they should keep
using it.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
So I was watching a Hopefuls group doing Priory and
Hopeful coming up with this brilliant idea of just playing
mass poly More, a talent that almost nobody ever plays
as an extra stop. So now majors are doing three
stops in a row. We're doing like grip into beam
into the DH stomps, and then after the DH stomps,

(01:00:11):
the Majors does a triple stop. Then you fill vetable
stop gap with like the pre sphere into DK slid
into jured doing roran versaal typhoon, and then go back
to doing like this before.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Because that is giving me flashbacks to literally underwrought on
rogue where you would handle like three maggots because you
would gouge and kidney them. They definitely didn't rebreath after
you gouge your kidney to breath. That, yeah is one hunt.
Maybe the lashes work that way, but it's definitely not
true that mobs just used to work this way back then,
because you would like lock down multiple maggots as a

(01:00:45):
row back then.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Yeah, it's defally gone ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Yeah, I don't mean to something sense, you know, coming
up with cool tech like using mass polly and I
do like you know, innovation and n plus. I just
think that the way that the innovation is like we
are innovating to make the list of how long we
can keep mobs? Are we stopped longer that's not particularly interesting?

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Or keep the mobs and the moms can even play
the game Like, Yeah, it's actually ridiculous the things that
people have to do in order to get through these dungeons,
and it just puts such a burden on the pug
players when very expected to do this type of shit.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
All right, any other eleven two or interview questions?

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
I have one, and I had a cook about it,
and I want you all to tell me if you
think the cook is bad. Not something we normally talk
about either, but like, how do you view players who oh, well,
we talked about it last week briefly, how do you
view players who need on every item in looking for
group just to sell them?

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Are there any plans to address this? They respond, We're
we're aware that this is a problem. There's been a
lot of feedback. It's definitely something we've seen as well
while playing the game. We understand that any time of
player is in a difficulty, they go into that difficulty
under a certain social contract, and players who are in
al far together or a group finder modes often don't
come into those modes with a lot of social contracts.

(01:02:09):
By the way, that part could use me, I think
I'm too stupid to understand what the fuck is talking
about with that's so far, so it can be frustrating
to see that item drop that you really want and
another player make off with it or sell to the
highest bidder. We don't have any plans to announce right now,
but it's something that we're actually taking a look at
and we'd like to address in the future. I can

(01:02:29):
tell you might cook. But on one thing my chat
immediately said is like just do personally. But personally doesn't
specifically do anything for this this issue.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
It does fix some of the problems with it, like
like what it feels worse to click need on something
and then not get it and then see it get
sold rather than just see the item go into somebody
else's bags.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
But the same thing is happening though, and personally it
is just.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Psychologically it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
There's some There was this study that they did where
they like either gave you a piece of chocolate and
then tried to buy it back from you, or tried
to sell you a piece of chocolate, and if they
gave you the chocolate first, you valued it way higher
than if they tried to sell it to you before
they gave it to you. So like just the part
where like it becomes yeah, yeah, like the personal loot

(01:03:20):
thing like changes where in the process the item becomes
yours or you know, you're fighting for ownership over it.
So I do think that there's You're right that, like
there's not actually a huge difference between personal loot and
rolling need versus greed, but it is, like I do
think it's it's psychologically would be better for l of
R to go back to personal loot, and it would

(01:03:40):
also remove the problem of like if I want to
if I'm a good person and I don't want to
roll need on something I don't need, and so I
only roll need on like thirty percent of items or something,
but just the thirty percent that actually upgrades for me,
I'm like losing gold compared to some jerk that's rolling
on everything ye trying to sell to stuff. And if
it was personal loot, that would be a little b
less true, although I would probably give away the items

(01:04:01):
I don't need rather than try and sell them, so
I'd still lose out compared to the dishonest person whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
But my Yeah, So I remember when we brought this up,
Like I remember talking about this and saying how it's
been a rampant problem because like it's just something that
people are doing more than ever before. I don't even
know when this started, really, but I noticed this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
We talked about how gold being tradable cross realm was
a big part.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Of the oh the reason that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
This is like ftastasized in the way that it has.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Yeah, because I do remember, like Spymaster in particular, that
was being that was a high commodity item that was
being pawned off NonStop. But after thinking about this a
bit more, is this really a problem? Like, is it
really that big of a deal if someone who joins
your raid group, who like what is very incentive for

(01:04:57):
being in the right, I mean, they have equal part
to the loot as much as everyone else, right, and
so they also deserve something too, right, Like it maybe
they just signed up so that they can kill bosses
and acquire loot, and if it's not something they got
they can use, they should be able to just sell
it off, right, Like, is there anything inherently wrong with that?

(01:05:20):
I know, I know, like it feels wrong because like
everyone else wants items. Yeah, it was like my mind,
but that's nothing really wrong about it, right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
A lot of people feel icky when that happens in
their runs, and so they complain about it. But you're right,
there's not like anything inherently unfair. Everybody has the equal
chance of the gear, and then if you win it,
you either use it or you sell it like that.
It's kind of the same thing as like gdkp's right,
like which Blizzard did go after and versions of classic

(01:05:49):
but you know there's not really anything inherently wrong with
them either.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
Right, Yeah, no, yeah, my my cook, it might be bad.
It was like two minutes, was like at the end
of my stream. I think I like instantly into my
stream after this, it was just like, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
It's really good to do do a controversial cook and
then just stop.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Yeah. I don't know if it's controversial. But my contract
is there a trans mog when you can roll for something,
can you roll for trans mog?

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
Okay, So my thing is if you roll for transmog
on an item instead of need, it should regardless of
who actually wins the item of the people who roll
trans mog on them, it should just give you like
a cosmetic thing in your bag that lets you learn
the appearance for transmog as a completely separate thing. So
the only thing that changes is basically when you kill
a boss and that chess piece drops. Now two people

(01:06:35):
total are getting that appearance if you care about it,
the person who actually got the item and the person
who just got it because they were rolling for MOG.
And I don't know if I mean, who the fuck
cares you know, but like I feel like that because
when I asked my chat, the people who were really
mad was actually transmot collectors. They're like, I like farming
mog and like it's impossible to get these items because
like I know, these people aren't even farming from MOG,
but they're just like selling it and I just want

(01:06:56):
to like roll neat and get it. So it's a
transmogue take.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
Yeah, that I agree, Like, I don't think that's actually
the biggest complaint on average, but I do think that
the other problem that transmog hunters run into is if
you do need an item, but you know for transmog,
people yell at you or like get mad because they
think that you shouldn't be able to need for translog
and Blizzard has sort of, I think, reinforced this by

(01:07:21):
making a transmog button that is lower priority than needing.
But I do think if you're like, if you que
up for LFR and you're doing it because you want
the MOG. You should be able to just need on
items that you want them for MOG.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
Well, the reality is, because of the way the system
works right now, if you go to l f R
and you're doing it for MOG and you don't roll
need on items you're going to, you're you're simply just
not ever going to get them. So that that just
shows that there's a flaw in the system, which they
did acknowledge. They just acknowledged that that was a problem.
So yeah, they are looking to address that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Yeah, I don't know, I don't I don't really have
any great solutions this. Besides this a vague sense that
personal loot would do would fix some of this or
would make it feel a little bit less icky. But
I kind of I agree with both of you that,
like at the it's kind of I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
They answered a lever question. They answer you like a
question about like the lever thing, and it's not really
much more than they basically said, like, yeah, we think
leavers are bad and that's why we did this lever thing,
And I just I know we talked about it before,
but I just want to reiterate I don't think that
change is gonna do anything.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
I think, Yeah, I just don't.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
But I also don't know how widespread the actual issue
of like legitimate grief leaving is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Well, that's the thing is, like, I don't think there's
I don't think most people who are leaving are doing
it because they're like joining groups and leaving them for
fun like we do. Like they're usually just doing it
because they're joining a group and trying to time it
and then you know, they get mad or think it's
defletd or whatever and then heart out right.

Speaker 3 (01:08:49):
And yeah, I don't think those people are gonna be
swayed by this. How long does the scarlet letter stand
your character? You just log off and take a breather
and then it's gone.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
It's it seems like you have to actually do keys
successfully to get it taken off of your record.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
All I know was we messed around with it a
little bit on PTR and uh, when we abandoned the
group and we rejoined, there was like some message of
that possa. I was like, if there's a guy in
your group that is known for leaving, Yeah, as a
fucking lever, you have a gotta it was gotta ready.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Didn't like identified, like it said the name of the person.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
I don't I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
Actually it doesn't even name them. So it's like it's
like scorched Earth. It doesn't name them. But you're in
a group of five people, it's like someone's a lever.
It's like, well, I gotta kick everybody better. Fucking start
from the beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
This vised me of DODA because like back in the
old days of Doda, there it was just kind of
like the Wild West, right, you just played on battlement
and whatever. You you would have you had this like bots.
We're not bogu, but you had this program that you
would use to detect leavers. Right, it would have like
an entire black list of verse and whatever. Someone joined

(01:10:03):
and and that person was a lever, it would just
go lever detected. That would just that would just be
the TTS And that ship is like so ingrained in
my brain. That's like the first thing I think about
when I'm thinking about this whole situation. I'm sure some
people could relate to that. Actually, going back to this
whole uh selling loot epidemic, bro, I fucking hate boosters, man,

(01:10:29):
I the whole boosting problem has gotten so much worse
these days. Like I never I was always a booster
for the longest time. Boot Yeah, I'm a boosty. Yeah
I'm a booster. I love boosting for gold. But ever
since the boosters, yes driving down the prices. Not only that,

(01:10:50):
but like they're also just so For one, all the
fucking top raderile people are just like buying insane raid
boost gear and they're just like straight up zooting themselves
to like Max Loute in the first few weeks of
the patch. That is like so annoying. It's like, man,
these fuckers are just like buying all the loot and

(01:11:10):
they're just like crushing all these keys, and I just
can't do anything about it. It's especially she was like
it's in the Chinese region, right, Like in the Chinese region,
we're just able to fall on hard armt like very
straight up just piloting characters and shit, they don't even
care and.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
Bro Bean, they've been doing that forever, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
The yeah, And now that they're like dominating the leaderboards,
it's so rough. It's so annoying that these guys are
just like so much more geared. So that's the first problem.
The second problem is buyers being in the raid all
the time. They're just going to keep all the goddamn lute,
And there's nothing more annoying than it's like, oh, well,
you know, like we can't give out lout because you know,
we have a buyer who reserved every single piece of

(01:11:46):
lute and arraid, so we're just giving out our draft
or diamonds and all that shit. It's like, man, this
is just so fucking annoying.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
Like there's been some seasons where like our raiders have
had absolute men TV's about Oh yeah, I've heard stories
about it. They get it because like like especially the
Mythic plusers, which there's only a few of the like
the people who want to do Mythic Plus, like they
just need the specific drinket and someone is buying it
every week because it's so good and they're so tilted
and or it's like only in it's like always their

(01:12:12):
raid where it's being bought.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Did it so cringe?

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Yeah, Like are very rares from the early bosses, like
very rare. Yeah, the the like third Boss near bar
Palace necklace. That thing was absolutely impossible. Oh yeah yeah,
get on one of.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
Yeah I got that shit.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
Yeah, I agree. I wish buyers would pay more and
take less loot. That's my main problem with buyers as well.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
I wish would just give me all the loot or
all the money.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
I do think that in a world of resilient keys,
it's maybe worth Blizzard rethinking whether, like their policy around
people buying them plus stuff, because I think that, you know,
like selling title, they should maybe think of it just
banning that, making it so you can't sell title.

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
Actually, that's interesting that that exists, I think, But is
that any different than like selling someone a cutting edge?

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
Clear?

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Well, you take away somebody else's title slot every time
you sell somebody.

Speaker 3 (01:13:18):
Yeah, okay, so that's how it's different.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
Okay to me, that's the big thing.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
That's like, same thing with Arena Rank one carries like
well those are mostly piloted. That's maybe another issue. But
the like how do you I don't know, Yeah, I
don't know. The M plus ones piloted?

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
No not, I mean there are, but not. It's not
as like.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
There are a lot of unpiloted ones compared top Yeah,
especially if you play something like whenever there's an OG season,
you just play your own OG and uh I collect
your title.

Speaker 3 (01:13:51):
Of crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
A lot of people have been done for this EN
plus season, more so than before because of like the
whole resilient key system. I know a lot of people
who have, like an in the high key range, who
have like gotten Resilient twenty or nineteens and they're basically
done with M plus for aseas and even though they've
had a lot of fun, it's just like it's a
lot easier to get done. Dude, It's like milestones. I

(01:14:14):
think we talked about this last week too. Yeah, you
reach a certain point where it's all right, you know,
resilient twenties, Like it's kind of hard to just go
past bad. We've hit our goals where we're done for
the season.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
I don't think that's inherently bad, Like, it's not bad.
You done quicker, you hit you. I think the thing
that would be bad is if you're if you think
to yourself, man, I'd like to push them M plus
and then something about the reward structure makes you feel
like that's stupid. What's the point, right, So I'm not
arguing that that's that is impossible, that could be happening,

(01:14:44):
but I do think it it would be totally there's
totally healthy systems where you just at some point are
done until next season. Then yeah, you're having a great time.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
I guess there is something that is a little bit
of feels bad. I do remember talking about this with Grow,
where it's kind of a shitty feeling when you hit
a wall and you're just hard gated. It's like, Okay,
this is my limit. This is as far as I
can go. And when you get to that point where
people are doing one or two key levels higher than you,

(01:15:14):
it's a bad feeling. It's like you just can't go
any further in that's.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
Life, right, Yeah, happy gets.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Reach it, Natty limit.

Speaker 3 (01:15:24):
The only way you could solve that problem is by
capping it at a certain difficulty where everyone can reach it.
And it's just like that's just worse, So it sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Just remember as well, if you ever reach a skill ceiling,
instead of getting better, you can always start a podcast
to talk about the game type instead, infinitely scaling form
of content there. And on that note, I think that's
all we've got for this week. We'll be back to
next week.

Speaker 3 (01:15:51):
Sorry, before we do that, would it ever be a
funny bit if we just went live one week, didn't
talk about wow. But then like cause play aid one
of those like Alpha Male podcasts, Oh my god, maybe
it's maybe it's bonus content, but like I feel like
if we like got a little bit of a script
for that with just like not like hard script every word,
but like general talking points and like what each of

(01:16:13):
us is gonna like kind of argue for, I feel
like that would be that could be extremely funny.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
We could do it for April Fools. Well, actually, I'm
gonna come.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
Have you guys seen those podcasts or seeing clips of
them where it's just like the worst person you know
is just talking about being a dude and a guy
and stuff, and it's fucking it's so bad.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
I've never seen one of those, but I can imagine
exactly what we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
Like some Andrew Taite ass enjoyers. Yeah, like it's it's
fucking they're and they're everywhere too, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
Some of them get you as well, because you listen
to the first like three minutes to somebody talk and
they're saying stuff about how like yeah you should you know,
clean your room and eat healthy and get a good night,
get a full night, like and then like ten minutes
later the person's like on a manifesto and you're like,
oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
Oh my god. I was down with like the cleaning
ear of like making your bed thing, but this this
has gone too far.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
That and for that reason, I will never make my
bed or have a shower.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
Or yeah, that's exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:17:07):
Do you guys make your bed?

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
I do not typically now, yeah, I guess not typically,
that's true, Like myriends just make our bed now.

Speaker 3 (01:17:15):
But I went like living alone, being single and with
previous relationships. The answer to that is no fucking shot.
There's why.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
It's one of those itself every day. So and I'm
not bothered by having an unmade bed, but yeah, obviously,
like the second you are living with somebody that cares
about the bed being made, it takes two seconds. So
you know at that point the math switches.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
Right, Yeah, I mean it takes some time, right, so
might as well.

Speaker 3 (01:17:46):
I'm you could be spending.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Optimay, yeah, laying in bed and watching YouTube videos or.

Speaker 3 (01:17:54):
Bob y'all watch you all see that ship first couple
of seasons. I think I I've randomly been watching it
recently because it's just like it's like the show that
my girlfriend just has on in the background while she's
doing other things, and that show's funny as fuck, it's
actually so good. The shout out Bob's Bob's Burgers.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
Alright on that

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
We are actually done, Yeah yeah, Audios, audios,