Ep. 79 - Drama, The Race to World First & 11.2

Hello friends and enemies of the PoddyC Podcast. In this weeks episode we are discussing all things Race to World First, 11.2 being launched and a bunch of Drama - because that's important! hope you enjoy!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, hey, welcome to episode seventy nine of The Potty
See this week. Race to World First drama as World First,
Mogushan Vaults, and MOP Classic has been plagued by competitors
getting banned for entering the raid before they were supposed to.
Oh yeah, yeah, crazy crazy story. Actually just the I
guess things on Classic have opened before their schedule time

(00:22):
a couple of times, but some guilds going for World
First went in when it was not supposed to open
yet and got hit with a couple hour band which
a couple hours is the entire length of a Classic
Race to World First. In fact, this one was over
in thirty nine minutes and thirty eight seconds for first place,
only thirteen seconds faster than second place. So you hear

(00:43):
about retail Race to World First being exciting Classic, it
was only thirteen seconds separating first and second. I'd like
to see anything that exciting on retail. I'll tell you
that for free.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
I actually watched the thing. Was really fun, that thirteen
second win. The team that was was like twenty seconds
behind killing the previous boss, and they did like a
They basically summoned faster Wow, which is like a way
to lose, you know, but yeah they did like a
comp swab or something. Yeah, that Classic race was sweet

(01:17):
and also I would be in I'm interested to know if. Okay,
so let's say the race world first is supposed to
start next Tuesday, So if the boss if the raid
gets released on Monday, and then we were talking about
in the guild, Hey, guys, do we go in and
maybe start the race early? The answer is like we
probably shouldn't do that, you know, like that's that's not

(01:39):
a good idea. But maybe Classic is different to where
like this happens and it's normal to do that. But like,
I maybe they don't care about the race, because I
know the big thing with Classic is like the speed
runs in between the race.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
That's like really what they care about.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
Maybe that's definitely a lot more for a fun type
of situation type shit.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, like I wonder if they really care, Like I'm
just wondering if like the thought of doing that for
us would be so insane, Like you're obviously getting banned, right,
Like no one's surprised they got banned.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, that's uh, it's weird though, because like okay, you
know they say something's gonna come up at like three
pm or whatever. If the server, if it's open at
two fifty five and you go in, you're gonna get
in trouble, Like probably not right, that's what about two
fifty four? Like where's the line? Where's the line where
you're not going in? Because you you know, you're all

(02:31):
standing out in front of the raid waiting for its
open and it opens sort of at a variable amount
of time from when they say right, like you know,
often it's five minutes early, five minutes late, ten minutes late.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
All those things are kind of common with stuff that
has a scheduled launch time. And wow, so how much
earlier is it where you should be like Okay, no, no,
we shouldn't go in. We should wait until the posted
start time. I think probably like any more than like
thirty minutes early, you probably are in danger. But if
it's with the thirty minutes.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
Normal, they come up ten minutes early.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Sometimes sometimes, yeah, like sometimes.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
There's Cerverra comes up early sometimes.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, or like maybe not minutes on retail often, but
I think on retail it's usually more like if it's early,
it's like two minutes early or something. Yeah, m but
I guess I'm Classic there's been a more of a
history of things being more early than that. Yeah, I
don't know. Fascinating stuff. The Classic Race World First, of

(03:26):
course everybody knows Mogashan Vaults was the easy raid. Once
we get to the next year, that's when the Classic
Race is is really going to start to be hard again,
and ye're going to be in for a multi day
Classic Race World First. It's it's any any raid now
that's going to happen as has been predicted every year.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
No one. I'm actually I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
I'm actually curious. Is it the same guild or guilds
that have been doing these races.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
A lot of them. So the guild that won World
First this time is a guild called Newman, and they
also won Firelands and Dragonsoul, but they didn't win Bashion
of Twilight, like they didn't win the first Rate of Cataclysm, so.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
And then their progress has won before. That was the
team that got banned. And then there was another team
involved that was former beef Bar members, and beef Bar
was like the no streaming EU team that won a
few raids a few expansions ago as well. So I
think I think generally speaking, yes, they're all the same teams.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
Also, are these guys are also gonna keep up with
like say when Legion Classic, Legion Classic comes out or
whatever newer rate it might be, because I mean, I
would imagine a lot of these guys played a lot
back in the days, right, but how much did they
play these more modern expansions.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, I mean, I think there are definitely people that
have certain eras, Like if you look at the guilds
that sort of were in during TBC and Vanilla Classic
and Rath Classic, there's definitely been a change, like a
changing of the guard at the top of the of
the leaderboard since then. So I suspect that a lot
of people have like their little era that they is.

(05:10):
I think a lot of these people as well, like
our private server players, and have played you know, MOP
or Catta or whatever private Servers for the last while,
and uh or at least in the lead up to
MOP Classic, have been practicing bogushan bolt speed runs with
the with you know, four to eighty gear or whatever
they have this week over and over again on it.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, I wonder I wonder where that stops though, Like
he has a good point, like, for example, right, now,
do you think there are people playing Shadowlands private servers?

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Do you think that, Yeah, there's those Shadowlands.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Right, that's got it. That's there's probably like government torture
centers somewhere that have that as Like you walk in
and it's like, oh man, am I gonna get water
boarders today? And they're like nope, and then you just
see the maw loading screen You're like.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
No, Okay, So there's no there's no Shadowlands, there's no Dragonflight,
is there BFA? Is there are there Legion private servers
that people play right now?

Speaker 1 (06:04):
I don't know, but I suspect there are a Legion.
I suspect Legion has like a classic or a private
server fan base.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
The thing that I know is that people were playing
MOP private servers before Original Classic even came out, So
I think once Original Classic came out, those private server
players probably are a lot less populated other than practice
runs because people are just playing actual Classic. So I imagine
after MOP Classic it is interesting that I don't know
how many players are going to be like super proficient.

(06:33):
I mean, they're all it's all old stuff that's been
figured out, so it'll if there's ways to go on
a private server and practice it. I'm sure there will be,
but I wonder if at some point someone will actually
create a private server for an expansion that does not
exist right now, just to practice raid bosses at some
point in the future.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, because I feel like MOP, like MOP and then Vanilla,
Wrath and TBC were the big four, like if you
had if people had a favorite, it was probably one
of those four, right, and then maybe Legion, but like
Legion was recent enough that there wasn't you know, private
servering of it up until then. So yeah, I agree,
Like once we get to like wad BFA and Shadow
ends strike me as probably pretty low popular, low popularity

(07:14):
you know, private server environments. Yeah, that's interesting. There's also
a retail race World First coming up that's going to
be starting next week, So the pottyc we'll try and
create some content for you over the next couple of weeks.
But you know, of course that a lot there's a
lot of a lot of work for us during that time.
So we just had a three peet in Classic though,

(07:38):
so three peat is what's on the table here in
this upcoming retail race to World First to be pretty
exciting to see if that that happens, this would be
the first time as well. If Liquid wins this time,
it would be the first like full expansion to all
go to one guild I think. Ever, I don't think
there's ever been an expansion that's been only one guild.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
I think that's all. I think.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
If people have been saying that, I think it's happened before,
not to mention that even if it has or hasn't,
I think it's like just one of those made up
stats that doesn't matter. Like, for example, I think Echo
won three races in a row recently.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
There just happened to be.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Right, three peace have happened. But like a whole expansion.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Why is that any more significant than any other three
peet It isn't right because.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
We're trying to build hype. We're trying to build hype.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Oh oh yeah, yeah, No, it's I mean, the idea
of three peating sounds amazing because that just means we win,
and that sounds awesome.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
So but no more than that.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
I think Paragon won every single raid in ten Man
in mop I believe, is the other thing that happened. Also,
the way, depending on how you look at tiers right
back in the day, there a tier was all one thing.
So Emerald, Nightmare, Trial, evelor Nighthold were all one tier.
High Mal and Blackrock Foundry were one tier even though

(08:54):
they were separate raids. They don't do this anymore. That's
how things were looked at back then. So like, if
you look at tiers, winning Method won both Black Tier,
the first tier in WAD and the second tier there
were only two, but they didn't win High Mal, which
it just depends on how you look at that. It's
not how the game was looked at back then, So
like there's that, but yeah, I guess I guess maybe

(09:17):
it would be besides Paragon in ten Man, but the
two main guild competitors, one was just in twenty five
and one was ten so that's kind of weird.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, it looks like it's going to be a I
think this is going to be a very hype raid
to both watch and play as well. I don't know,
We've talked about it a couple of times, but that's
gonna be crazy. I think. I like just looking at
the bosses, looking at the the lead up to this tier,
I think I think this is gonna be This is
shaping up to be like if they stick the landing
on the boss tuning being pretty good, I think the

(09:48):
both the race and the like Raider experience this tier
will be I think, I think, very very very good.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
So I think for race watchers, I think this will
be an all time great tier for sure, people who
don't even play and just watch. Not to say that
it would be any less for people who play, but
I know, just definitely aesthetically, it's gonna look really cool.
Not to mention that I think the watchers really care
about more than you hear it all the time, three
horse race. They really care about more guilds being involved.

(10:16):
I don't know if there's any higher chance that that's
true in this tier than there ever has before, But
the community seems to think that like Method is like
way better this year and there's gonna finally be three
guilds that can win, right, So I think that is
something that people are really hoping happens too.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, for sure. I'm also of the opinion that like
the their chances, I think their chances have improved relatives
last year. Like, I think they will be closer to
second than they were last year, but I don't think
it will be by as much as the community, Like,
I think there are a lot of people that are
expecting them to kind of leap rug into second or first,
and I think third is still by far the most

(10:54):
likely you know, finishing spot for method. But I agree
it's one of those things where like even just thinking
that it's possible or maybe true is enough to make
it interesting that.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
They going into a race will be whether people are
marketing it, marking it off on their calendars that oh,
I'm gonna watch this because maybe this will happen, right right.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
So yeah, one hundred percent. What have you guys thought
of this first week being like, it's a little bit
of a weird week that we have in week one
of this patch compared to the previous ones, because there's
like some there's champion track gear, but it's it's just
from an M zero swoop, and then there's a bunch
of like random sources of veteran track gear. There's kind

(11:35):
of some stuff to do, but also not really stuff
to do, but also kind of stuff to do. How
does this feel compared to the previous seasons where we've
complained about there being nothing to do, and then also
the seasons where we've complained about having way too much
to do? Is this have they found the goldilocks zone
of just the right amount of stuff to do in
the first week.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
There's a good amount of stuff to do. I mean,
right now you have to do well. You have to
get your reputation if you want to get the infinite
augment room. You got to do your M zero sweep,
you got to do your delves for your weekly vaults. Yeah,
and your cape. So there's a good amount of activity.

(12:15):
I would say, like at least ten to fifteen hours
of content probably.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah. I like that. It's still a capt amount of stuff.
Like it's not like you know, a Legion week one
where there's literally uncapped amount of value and time investment, right,
like every single hour would be good. Like here, I
guess technically you could farm infinite rep by making new
alts and you know, doing Worldwest for more rep. But
like that's there's actually there's no real value in that.

(12:42):
That's just the infinite augment room, which is just quality
of life. So there's like a there's a few things
you can do that are good time efficiency, and then
other than that, it's you know, it's still a week
where it's true that if you, like, if you miss
this week, you would not be missing much and that's good.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
Yeah, I mean, there are so people who are complaining
about there not being much to do because like, realistically,
those players if they just want to do the endgame content, right,
like these guys verir pvpers or their raiders or unplusers,
and that's what they want to do, but unfortunately that
is not available for these guys going to But yeah,
I mean it's still been uh, it's still been a

(13:19):
good bit of fun because you know, everyone's like jumping
back into the game and you know, like I've actually
been having a pretty good time just speed running these
delves with some friends, Like we're five stacking, We're trying
to like go as fast as possible. So you know,
last week I was being a little bit harsh on deves,
like call them massive failure. I'm gonna have to take
that back.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Verre at least pretty enjoyable when you're trying to get
them out of the way as fast as possible. Oh,
we should just talk about that in general.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
The response to that was was I think kind of
interesting for us because we were basically saying, and I
believe we were only trying to speak for us, because
it's hard to speak for everyone. We were saying Dells
like never quite hit for people like us. And then
the response for majorly from people that responded, were like,
we love Dell's right. That was the comments action.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yea overwhelming we got a. There was a highly uploaded
Reddit thread to the potty that's basically.

Speaker 4 (14:07):
Like, oh yeah, I saw that today. I was actually
surprised there is an entire Reddit post on us. That's
a w Wright got.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
I mean, I don't think we said anything controversial with Delves.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
We literally just said we are speaking for us.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
And Delves don't work for like us in the high
end community kind of right, that's.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
I mean, to be fair, I do think that like
Delves didn't really change the status quo for retail Wow,
because I mean, you know, retail show was still retail Wow, right, and.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
What do you what do you want that?

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well?

Speaker 4 (14:43):
Because like when Blizzard initially announced Delves, they made it
sound like a pretty big deal, right, like it was
a new endgame pillar. It was like it was supposed
to coexist along Raid and m plus and PvP, And
it doesn't really feel that way, you know, it just
feels like a kind of like a So I was
talking to JB about this and he said, it feels

(15:04):
like it's just one of another time waster in a
new expansion, kind of like tour Gast or Eyelands or whatever. Yeah,
it's just like a new time waster, right, And well
that is pretty much what it is, but it doesn't
really so you know, Adam Oh, I think.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
There's a few important things that it does that are
different than for gassed, and like I think the reason
that it's hit and it's it's one of those things
where like if you are a player who always has
the option to do keys or raid as much as
you want, and like you can do those things, it's
it feels still like tour Gast or whatever, like any

(15:43):
of those other things, like for you and me for
most of my guilties, right like, anytime we want to
do content, we can just do keys with it with
our friends, right Like that's always an option, and so
why would we do delves. But if you're somebody who
doesn't have, you know, any time access to keys or
doesn't want to do keys, you know, you don't really
like m Bluss or whatever, but you do want to
log in and play World of Warcraft. There's been a

(16:05):
lot of expansions where like if okay, if it's the
middle of BFA and you log in and you want
to play World of Warcraft, Like there's World Quest swoops
I guess that you could be doing, or like you know, warfronts,
those kind of things, those all have like minimal good
rewards or once per week rewards. Del So what delves
do differently than those failed systems like Warfronts and eyes

(16:27):
like tour Gas as well, is it gives you good
rewards that are like semi repeatable, but not you have
to farm, you know, a bunch of this, like like
tor Gas you did for the soul lashes or whatever
or any of those things. Right, It's like you don't
have to do this, but you can do it. You
get a lot of rewards for doing your first like
five boundful deves a week or whatever, and it's like

(16:49):
it's pretty good stuff, right, like compared to the effort
if you looked in previous expansions and it's like, hey,
I want to basically do like some quest level difficulty
and get in some you know, normal slash Heroic raid
equivalent gear that wasn't the thing you could do in
most Wow expansions, right, And with Delves now you can.
And I think so, I think that's the big thing.
Is like for a lot of people, Delves are easy,

(17:13):
not too annoying, right, Like the gameplay is not annoying
or bashing your head against the wall or hard, right, Like,
they're they're easy, They're rewarding, and that is more important
than like whether the gameplay is good. Is like Mage
Tower or whatever, that we like that part, in fact,
the part about Mage Tower that we enjoyed. By definition,

(17:35):
it comes with the problem that like, if you kind
of suck, you're gonna fail at it and you're not
gonna you're not gonna win, right, And Delves don't have
that problem, Like you almost certainly are not gonna fail
it at at the level that you want to do
it at outside of maybe the first couple of weeks
of the season. If you're if you're both bad and undergeared,
right like that, you will succeed at Delves. You will
be given, you will reach the end of the delve,

(17:56):
you will write click on the treasure chest, and dopamine
will be injected into your and as your character gets
a purple item like that that is something that is
the main thing I think that they harness, and it's
just not something that's relevant to you. If you can
do all the keys you want and you know, rated
a high, like if those are the things you play
Wow for. But if you want to just log in
and play Wow, like delves are there for you in

(18:17):
a way that Warfronts were not there for you, and
tor Gas was not there for you because tour Gas
didn't really give rewards along the same track as the
rest of the game. It was just like, oh, hey,
here's tor Gas. You have to do enough of this
to get your legendary and then that's it. There's no
point in doing it besides that, Well, what.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
About fun or fulfilling? Because I feel like you mentioned
that it was easy and it's rewarding, but you don't
really mention them too much about that. I mean, I
know you can't really speak for the vast majority of players, but.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
The things that like you and I mostly find fun
in a game, it would be something like a mage
Tower style challenge right where it's like, man, I have
to kind of learn how this works, right, The mechanics
are kind of hard. I am going to get punished
if I screw it up, right, But if I execute
it well, I'm gonna win and I'm going to feel
good myself, right, and like that kind of fun. You

(19:04):
can't really have that at the same time as I
can go do this with Netflix on my other monitor
and win almost all the time, which is what delves have.
Like those two things are fun for different people, and
they can't make it fun for us and fun for
you know, the person with it.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
I think I think the jobs that it's hard just really.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah hard, like like the amount of things you make
and that you can play for five years, and there
there will be a system where multiple where it like
totally fucking hits for everybody, but it's just insanely hard
because what people want is just so different.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, I agree, Like there there is a version of Dell,
and I think there's some possibility here of like the
levels past the levels where you get rewards, the difficulty
there could scale more into the you know, fun and
interesting for us way, rather than the mobs just have
flat more health and damage and like auto attack you harder.
I do think there's some potential there, but I don't

(19:57):
know even this season. The changes they've made to Delves
this season, I think of it more fun than last season.
Then the changes last season made it more fun than
the previous season, so there's definitely room for It's just
it's never going to be the kind of fun that
like Horrific Visions Week two, Prague or whatever was for us,
or Mage Tower, you know, at appropriate gear level was

(20:18):
for us. I just I don't think. I don't think
Delves are trying to be that, and I think if
they did, ninety nine percent chance they would just screw up.
For the people they are currently surveying, correct, which is
like a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
I feel like they're hitting the right audience.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
And one thing I really liked about the response too
from our comments was we always say it's like this
is what we think, and it's kind of hard to
get other perspectives, and I feel like you guys gave
us that perspective. You very quickly were like, Hey, I
feel like I identify with a lot of other people
and we actually really like Delves. So that was a
w W comments section we learned.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, so I think I think they take Reddit right. Yeah,
read it in the comment section.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Like, so you said they were mad at us on Reddit,
well not mad, pushing back against our.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Our perspective we.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Feel about how can you push back on what we
think doesn't make any sense?

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Some of it was not allowed to feel the way
you feel because did someone say something that I'm not remembering.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
I think Dorky said they were a massive failure.

Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that was a bit far, Like
I definitely should have called it a massive failure.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's it's we're
definitely allowed to not enjoy them that much ourselves, which
I just I think it's one of those things where
it's like there are sometimes where they design systems that
are trying to be fun for us, and I think
then us going on rants about them is really useful
because like like when they make the aa wee caps

(21:45):
try and make M plus more fun and we're like, look,
this does not make M plus more fun. I think
that's a really good thing for us to complain about
a lot with Delves. It's like, Okay, if Delves aren't
fun for us, but they are serving a lot of
other people, at least that's good, right, Like, Okay, it's dude,
It's it's important for it's good for a lot of
other people. Great like that the game is a big game,

(22:06):
that there's different parts for different people and people that
want the Delves the way they are. I'm glad they
have that right Like, this isn't one of those things
where they're trying to make some change for our part
of the game and screwing it up with which like
the aaecap was, or like covenant swapping was. This is
one of those things where it's like, yeah, okay, they
maybe they could make delves better for us, maybe, like

(22:27):
there are ways that they could do that. But there
they have it right now in a pretty good equilibrium
for a lot of the a lot of the player base,
and the seasonal changes are good.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
I'm looking at the responses to the reddit thread and
there's someone who just responds very up at the top,
pretty highly uploaded as well, quoting this guy saying dells
are a failure and there first going to be a
disccharctor misunder disconnector misunderstanding perhaps, And he says, to my understanding,
they meaning us specify often at least as of late,
that they're not the target demographic, and they try to

(22:57):
specify it's for their content of play, which is not
the average player's content, which is kind of what I'm saying, Like,
I feel like we're just we're talking for us, right,
And then he says the community used to realize that
when they are not the target demographic or something that
doesn't make it a failure is the first thing. And
I'm just like, Okay, So dor Key's saying that, actually,
just like turbo through our entire like you're talking about
it for us, because just using the term as it's
a failure, they're just like, yeah, they're not speaking for that,

(23:20):
they're speaking for everyone. So you fucking hard ended.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
Yeah. So I mean the way I see it, as
you know, I had higher expectations for it, even if
it's not something that I would enjoy, because Blizzard made
it out to be something big, right, like this is
this is going to be it, you like, this is
going to be of a new shit in the war
Fin And you know how like last episode we kind
of talked about how Wharfin kind of feels like Dragonfly

(23:44):
two point zero, which you know, like it really does
feel it that way, and I think a large part
of that is because DELS didn't really change how retail
wild plays, and I had high higher expectations for sure,
and you know, maybe that was like misplaced expectations, but
that's kind of how I felt about it. And then

(24:06):
I know, like, you know, sure many people do enjoy
Delves for like easy and rewarding content, and I think,
I think that's perfectly fine. Like I don't have any
problems with that.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
I will say I some of the stuff that there
is this season makes me even more hopeful that like
they're going to be They're going to go from like
something I don't mind doing to something I actively, you know,
slightly enjoy doing, even which like right now, okay, when
you go to a delve, sometimes you just prock a
portal and you can just go to a boss fight

(24:37):
instead of the delve, and the like the previous two
season bosses can be in that room, so you could
just go and like fight the season one and season
two bosses and finish the delve that way instead of
doing the delve the regular way. If you if the
portal just spawns in at your your like graveyard, stuff
like that I think is really cool, you know, evolution

(25:01):
of the Delves system. But I agree, like I there
was definitely when they first announced Elves, and when we
first tested them, there were things that I was hoping
it would be for me that it they definitely aren't.
So that is it's like reasonable to be sad that
that's not what they are. And especially if you're the
kind of player who just wants those sorts of things
and just wants like M plus and raid stuff and

(25:25):
like class stuff, and you have an expand you have
Dragonflight into War within with Delves into Midnight with like
player housing. We don't know if there's other stuff, but
if it's just player housing and there's not really new combat,
you know, gameplay, I think it is reasonable to be
disappointed there. Like I think that I don't think you
should have to be excited just because they're making a

(25:45):
lot of stuff that's good for other people, right, like you,
you're allowed to be for your own interests, right, be
sad about it and.

Speaker 4 (25:52):
Menemy for me, Like, it's not even I don't even
actually want more Raid war I'm black stup. Well, I
mean I take that back, Like obviously I would want
more radio or M plus content, but that's not even
necessarily what I'm looking for, because like I do personally
would want more to do outside of rate and M
plus as like an M plus player, because I mean

(26:14):
I have played well for the longest time where I
like engage with a good part of the game. But
more so nowadays than ever before, I really don't do
a whole lot outside of just rated M plus.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
That really is how it is.

Speaker 4 (26:31):
Yeah, I feel I don't really know how they can
like really bring that back, and you know, maybe that
maybe that's more of a me thing than the game thing.
But I do wish there were more to do.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
Bro, you just need infinite ap grind.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
Yeah, good days, good old Legion days. Yeah, I mean
that was actually fun as hell.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
You are someone who plays an entire Wow patch, infinite
grinding is just like very high approval rating because it
is giving you something to do every day.

Speaker 4 (26:59):
Well, but it wasn't even that, right, Like, it wasn't
even the ap that made it fun. It was more
so everyone being logged in because, like I said, have
very fond memories of the beginning of Legion where everyone
was just always logged in and people were like out
and doing world quests or whenever there was like you know,
some sick trinket that popped up. You guys, remember a

(27:20):
shock baton from the Devil Sore or whatever it was. Yeah,
So like whenever that popped up, everyone would always get
like super excited about it. You'd have like things going
off in class, discorsing, like guys like you know, log
in into your world quest. So if you have a
chance of like Titan forging thatat trinket and if you
managed to hit one of those trinkets, that was like
super sick. So just like having all these like different

(27:41):
events and things going on in the World Warcraft that
made it fun and exciting to play.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Yeah, yeah for me too.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
But I think the issue is that there was a
lot of people that were like, feel like they had
to do that, and if they couldn't or didn't, they
were like this fucking sucks.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
It is a very highly approved, high approval rating expansion.
I think casuals and hardcore players are like love Legion.
It was just that once they did Legion again and bfa,
kind of they and not I would I guess for
most of it you could argue not as well.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
People were just kind of over Legion. Like I think
it's also it's also possible you could.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Have Legion, you could have the infinite grind be around
all the time, and that'd be amazing for one expansion,
and it end up being old you know at some
point that you just get over it.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Both of those things can be true.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, I feel like the burnout, like it would be
impossible to avoid burning out for most people. Obviously there's
people like us that can just play, you know, every
day for ten years or whatever. But I think for
a lot of people it's it's the kind of thing
where like the game moving in the direction of respecting
your time more and not requiring you'd always be logged

(28:48):
in and not having infinite grinds, Like that's got to
be way better most for most of the time, even
though there's definitely like in the first few weeks of
a patch, you can always tell there's like a little
bit of a yearning for you remember Super Rares at
the started Dragonflight, like perfect people just want they want that,
Like there's a little bit inside of us that wants
the kind of djen mmo, like, oh my god, we

(29:13):
gotta we gotta fly do this right, Like this is
something you could do to make your guy better when
the raid's not out.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Like that phenomenon was so interesting too, because I feel
like the reason that that happened was because you were
used to that in two previous expansions, because I noticed
it so much at the beginning of this expansion. Almost
all of the systems that existed at the beginning of
the of the Dragonflight season all were there. The raars
were there, the like random ship to do, but there

(29:41):
wasn't that same feeling of everyone going around and doing things.
And the only thing I can think of for that
is people didn't log in with the expectation that that's
just what you do, because that's what the previous two
expansions the Dragonflight taught you to do. So they went
in a Dragonflight and they were like or maybe they
realized it when they farmed like crazy for two weeks
in the season started, and literally none of it mattered,
and they just didn't know that at the time.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Maybe I don't know, Yeah, I remember all of us
were saying at the time, like, look, this is gonna go.
This is not worth doing, like this is literally just
you know, two eye levels for two days or whatever.
But nonetheless, people wanted to farm it. It wasn't less
good at the start of this expansion than it was
that expansion. There wasn't anything like the that ring that
we wore for most of the Vault incarnates. I remember

(30:24):
it was actually quite good. The Cobalt assembly ring.

Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yeah, people would be jenning during that Emerald Dream patch too.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, oh my god, seed farming. So I guess if
there is something to do, I mean, even this week, right,
you've got the race World first skills are all buying
people's loot lockouts for M zero's for like you know,
five digits of gold each or whatever.

Speaker 4 (30:49):
Well, that's just having like ten characters, right, because yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Exactly, it's I mean more than anything, that is just
the fact that there's nothing else to do this week.
There's something I said on stream earlier. They're asking like
how much is this guild charging. I'm like, a guild
could choose to not do any mythic zeros this week
on any of their characters, and their chance of winning
the race would not change byo point one percent. I
don't think this matters at all. It's because you're you're

(31:14):
doing you're getting marginally higher eye level for splits, which
may or may not matter. And by marginal, I mean
like rad eye level of like point two for splits
just your characters, not the people you're inviting to help you.
And you're potentially having some options for trinkets, so you
don't have to like go farm them on Mythic Plus,

(31:36):
but you're gonna farm them on Mythic Plus before you
like go into Mythic anyway. So it's like it's extremely
short term, early week thing and the only reason you're
doing it is is now, which, by the way, also
is why you guys should join these groups because probably
for the first time ever on both regions, it's just
the freest goal of all time. It's easy content. It's

(31:56):
content that it's it's gear that you should never want
or need as a player. You're gonna replace all of
these next week, right This is this is something where
basically these items only have value for the race. They
have no value to you or paying for paying you anyway.
It's like uh splits next week. For example, people are
used to doing those heroic splits. You're giving up, you're
filling your vault, but you're giving up your chance to
get heroic items, but to get paid. Right you're losing

(32:17):
something of value and getting paid for it. Right here,
you're losing.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Nothing of value and you're getting paid for it.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
So I would highly suggest for the it's probably only
gonna happen for the next day or so, I would
get in on these as much as you can.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah, but reference like in my guild, if you ever
tried to join a liquid split and get paid for
it like you would, you would be vented out the
nearest air lock, like you're you can't just lock your
character or like even just spending the time doing that
in Heroic Week instead of gearing one of your guys,
like gearing your main and M plus like you would,
you would get in trouble for doing that. But if

(32:48):
you wanted to go do these M zero runs and
get paid for it, like honestly, the marginal value of
your M zero loot lockout versus the BOE that the
fraction of a BOE you could buy with the gold,
Like that's got to be better. The gold's got to
be better. It's it's genuinely like you were, uh, you're
I've seen people there are in like comments on Twitter

(33:10):
or whatever of like, oh, this is such a low
price you're paying, but it's it's it's really free money,
like you you are not giving up anything valuable at
all with your loot lockout this week.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
Dude, you're gonna need that gold too, because we are
getting early access again, So better start buying your tokens
now so you can get early access.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Banger.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Well, before we do that, I just want to talk
one more thing about the rep.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Okay, So banger Segue killed.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah, banger Segway killed. Do you guys think this is one.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Of the few ways I could see the argument of
like the race world first as negatively effect of the
game being definitely true. Is that for a few patches
and you mentioned the seed patch, I'm youreor Soil, everyone
was online because like the REP was actually good and
the stuff you could get for it seemed powerful.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
And then I don't know if this is why they.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Did that, but they probably got tired of having to
deal with potential exploits exist that we're always happening. But
now the reps seem like super irrelevant, like yeah, you're
eventually gonna get to perma augment room, but like there's
no cool like buffs around the way because they're just there.
I feel like they might be scared of what we
could get for the race that they don't intend and
clearly the guilds will will try anything to get around it,

(34:18):
except maybe not now because people will. Every guild has
now been punished for it, so it's unlikely for them
to want to do that again, right. I think the
precedent was also set that if someone did that again,
they would.

Speaker 4 (34:28):
Almost stop stopping Ginger.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
During the race.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, that probably isn't stopping gingy. Him doing that on
stream is legit insane.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
I cannot believe he did that. He'll figure it out,
so I'll wear it over.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
I think you might be right. Yeah, Like if you
look at some of the old Renowned tracks as well,
even they would have like, oh, Champion Track boots at
Renowned ten, and this time it's like Champion Track Bracers
at Renown fourteen or something where it's like, you do
not worry about this, right, Like there's there's nothing here.
I think that you're probably, But even like for a

(35:01):
non Race World first player, it's kind of nice to
not have to farm the REP because I feel like
if they made the REP rewards, good people that weren't
Race World First players but did want optimized characters would
maybe be bothering to farm it, like to grind it
especially Man with Darkman Fair out. I hate it, dude.
I hate it when there's a relevant REP in Darkman

(35:21):
Fair and I'm supposed to like go back to that
stupid place every hour or buy a bunch of hats
as cringe as hell. So I'm glad, like this time around,
I'm glad that it doesn't matter. I do think there's
room for them to put more like cool outdoor world
stuff in the REP those kinds of things, and there
are some of those. I feel like they put those
too late in the renowned tracks though sometimes where it's

(35:43):
like like last season, for instance, were there were these
chet lists which were like little, do these four of
these eight tasks and you get some valor stones, and like, uh,
you could turn it in for REP as well, but
it didn't unlock until renowned like fourteen with cartels, and
so by the like you it would have been fun
to do that in the first week or two, and

(36:04):
then by the time you unlock it, it's no longer
fun to do it or interesting. So I don't know.
I think I think they should do more of that
kind of stuff early in their noun tracks, like even
just like movement speed changes in the world or like
unlocking a new portal around the zone. Those kind of things.
I think those those will go a long way towards
making the renowned track feel less nothing.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
All right, sorry for killing the segue onto the Uh
all right, can we do it again? Maybe trying to like,
oh we can't do it?

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, run it back? God? What was Oh it was
to the it was the midnight pre order thing, right
they yeah, yeah, so yeah there were leaked screenshots, right
and uh, they're doing the three day early accessing again.
That's really good. I was a big fan of Yeah,
w Blizzard.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
L community for us not being loud enough for them
to not do it again, because I think we we
voiced our displeasure at how in my opinion like extremely
anti consumer and complete dogshit that that is it is
just not should never exist in MMOs.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
But clearly we were not.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Loud enough, or people didn't vote with their wallets, which
I certainly certainly didn't.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, I bought it. It didn't. You didn't need to.
It didn't. It wasn't paid to win.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
You if you were a race world first competitor, someone
doing the most beginning the expansion, it would have done
made zero difference.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
But you would have been less likely got banned.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Actually yeah, I guess so.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
But yeah, the uh, I hate that it's there, but
it's there and it's gonna stay now because it's clearly
they've gotten.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
Away with Oh yeah, I mean I said this last
time it came around. I was saying, how like Blizzard
should do his one hundred percent, Like if I was Blizzard,
I would do this every single time. Like there's no
reason they shouldn't do the late access for the poors,
like it just if you're brokey, Like you just shouldn't
have access to that early on, you know, the big books.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah, I think the main thing is like why is
the subprice knock gone up more with inflation? Right, Like
that really should go up. I think like thirty a month.
We would all be fine with that at this point.

Speaker 4 (37:59):
So the cosmetics too, And I go all this stuff
in the cashop, Like I don't know how the boots
or got away with being only ninety dollars because the
bus back in BFA costs waynboard.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
I would be friends are.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Playing Torchlight Infinite and they're they're swiping like five hundred
dollars or something in that game. I'm just looking at like, yeah,
well I should go to pay to win man, just
to just put some champions track items on the you know,
for real money, Like, man.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
What can you even get in Torchlight Infinite for money?
Is it power?

Speaker 1 (38:25):
There's yeah, there's pets that give power. Like every you know,
mechanic or whatever has a pet that just makes it
three times more loud or whatever, and you have to
you have to like roll Gotcha style together.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Isn't that Like, aren't you just intentionally killing an AIRPG
for yourself by giving them money?

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Well, you do get to keep it through to the
next season apparently, So it's like, I mean.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Like an AIRPG is as fun typically is as fun
as it takes to get like juice to fuck out,
And as soon as you're juice to fuck out, the
fun drops off a cliff for like almost everyone, So
like getting to that point faster.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
You're paying to enjoy the yeast.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
But you're you're not. You don't pay to like make
your guy. I mean, you do make your guy a
little bit stronger, but a lot of the of what
they're paying for is making more loot and stuff drop, right,
Making them more your lot.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Drop means you get your best build faster and have
and then log off.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
But it is more fun to like do the mechanic
that drops you know, six items instead of two or whatever.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, in the short term, you're you're basically saying, I'm
gonna play the game for less time, but I will
enjoy that time more.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
See.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
I thought about that too, because, like back back when
I was playing a bunch of P two, like I
was in the RPG mindset right now, I'm like, how
to hell do people enjoy this? But I saw the
amount of boosting that goes on in the RPGs, and
it is like insane, Like the amount of paid r
MT ing paid to winning. Boosting that happens in RPG
makes retail look like nothing. And I mean we even

(39:49):
see Elon Musk himself doing it, like the legend himself
of ARPGs. He's out there with his credit card. He's
very powerful in these games, usually top ranked hardcore player.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Speaking of that guy, imagine how if in any case
and anytime you guys are ever having a bad day,
Just imagine how insecure you have to possibly be to
be the richest known, the known, richest person in the world,
or like without us knowing Saudi oil money and stuff. Uh,
and that that isn't good enough for you. And you
need a bunch of people on the internet to think
you're sick at games by lying and having people play

(40:27):
your account.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
That is fucking that is so pathetic. See.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
The thing is I don't need to as I am
sick at video games.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah you're him yep.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Uh okay, back to the back to the midnight pre
order thing. In addition to the exciting three day early access,
there's like early access to housing that kind of thing,
some some cool decorations and stuff too. Some traders ten ds.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
Oh wait, so so that does kind of confirm that
there will be like furnitures or whatever it may be
in the cash shop.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Right, Yeah, they already said that they did confirm that basically,
Like post.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
I'm really really glad that they chose to have early
access for housing be on the base edition of pre ordering,
Like I think they very easily could have put that
on the Giga edition.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
They should at least put in the seven dollars seventy
dollars instead of the Giga.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeah, seventy dollars is the worst value ever, By the way,
it makes no sense. Well, actually it does make sense
in that it's a it's a it's a marketing tactic
to make the middle one basically exists to make the
top one look more attractive.

Speaker 4 (41:36):
Yeah, I mean you see it too because people are like, oh,
you're only paying twenty dollars more for this, this and this.
It's not really it's.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Actually like five dollars more. It's like five dollars more
value to get the giga.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, it's it's like, it's why if you ever look
at like a drink menu, the medium drinks are way
more or way worse value than large or small. The
idea is like you look at it and you're like,
oh my god, I should just buy the large, and
then you buy the large.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
I went to a coffee shop today and the small
this is LA prices, So cover your ears if you
live somewhere where things are cheap, but they're the small
coffee was five dollars in the large with six and
it was just like, why the fuck would you ever
buy a small coffee?

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Right?

Speaker 4 (42:14):
Like that's pretty fucked.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Okay, what other stuff we have to talk about?

Speaker 4 (42:25):
Yeah, M plus boosting. I don't know if you guys
have seen, but the m plus boosting title has made
title extremely high, so much so that my dear friend Jangbe,
he was literally on the cusp of the chopping block,
like he straight up didn't he was like points four

(42:47):
points off like under and yeah are he was under.
He was under by points four and then like on
the very well on the very last day, he ended
up getting some friends to help him out, just like
dead Nose.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Oh yeah, Uh, Dorky did a key with me for
my my title push. That was uh, that was fun,
potty c key sort of no Maxima.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
So yeah, some.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
Of these people out here abusing the resilient system and
just the.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Resilien title, it's actually crazy what it's done to them.
Plus title, the title is insane, Like the title is
so high for you have to do you have to
do three twenties and five nineteen's to get title, which.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Is that's fucking insane.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
It's an absurdly like eyes are crazy level of keys
for title.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
I feel like that is like two to three key
levels higher relative to.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Like when I last played and I got a title.
That's all.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
I mean it's like you used to be able to
pug title if you were just like playing at the
very top end of pugging. But that's like almost impossible
to pug like you kind of need, yeah, some type
of Brazil boosting or friends to play with.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Yeah, So the way I did it was like a
guilty but basically three of us needed a title, and
then we had a you know, guilty with resilient twenty
ones actually, and you know, a couple and then just
like conscripted a couple of random friends. It's like, oh,
this person has a priory, we can go do their
priory and like get the get that, get the score
out of there, right, and then you know, end up
getting all eight keys that way, including at one point

(44:19):
where it's like, oh man, we need a tank. Oh
Dorky's online, let's try and get him right like that.
But if you didn't have access to that and you're
just somebody who tried to group find her, I feel
like if you were trying to group find her, non
rezil keys, like seventeens and eighteens would be a reasonable
point for title to be. Maybe like five seventeens three
eighteens I think would be fair. But the fact that

(44:41):
rezil boosting exists means that you just literally need you
need such an unreasonable level that you're yeah, you never
get it in the group find it. So I don't
know what the solution is because it don't such a
small I'm not saying take away rezil keys because of this.
I'm just looking at it as like, man, that that
doesn't really suck.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
We were trying to before it was such another one down.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
So I don't know if you guys saw the blizzard.
China also just banned a ship ton of people for boosting.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yeah, that's like article about it. It's not like gold boosting.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
Yeah that's true. Yeah, they banned them for arm T boosting.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
Yeah, they banned a ton of accounts. Maybe they had
a really strict and she even't pull it up.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah, there was a post where they like we're basically
like yeah, we're you know, we're banning twenty seven thousand
people and like here's the here's the actions that are
happening to the PvP years and the pbears and stuff
that are rising.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Is they that's the region where you've been able to
publicly get away with that ship.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
On stream with no repercussions for ten years.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
I think that's why I like that. It's like with
with the tu Missargaris, you know band wave where it's like, hey,
we've got we've got to make sure people know that
you're not allowed to do this anymore, and you know,
hopefully then that changes the culture. Yeah, okay, there here's
the post to over twenty seven thousand players. Oh, same

(45:57):
boosting as well, even Yeah, because that they're famously there's
like there's been hall there's been literally Hall of Fame
boosts where you can sometimes they accidentally upload the warcraft logs. Yeah,
and you just go onto warcraft logs and there's literally
it's literally one report, so it came from one computer,
and there's just eight different runs on the same day,
with eight different like guilds, and it's just these these

(46:18):
people are just logging on to like different characters, different
owned characters of different people and doing the exact same raid.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Those were the days.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Yeah, we never did that, but just account sharing runs
in general was so fucking nice.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
People thought we did that. There was this guild. Do
you guys remember this was a long time ago in Doork.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
He wouldn't remember this, maybe Drados would. There was a
guild and himl that did this. I think it was
the first known thing of this happening, some guild got
top twenty world and they had someone pilot their entire guild.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
And I actually haven't hear about this, and it ended
up being.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
This Russian guild, but people thought that it was us
and the only evidence for that was that killers didn't
stream that day. Do we had one streamer in our
guild and he didn't. He happened to not be online
that day, which he takes the day off every week,
And they're like it was there was ready there. There
wasn't Reddit threads back then. It wasmo Champion threads. But
people were like hard blaming us for it, and we

(47:13):
didn't do it.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
That's very funny. Do you imagine having a top guild
with only one streamer in it these days? That very
different times.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
Very different times.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah, back then, back then those were there was not
as much money in.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
It mm hm. And your streamer would have to turn
off stream during prague, right like that was they'd be
like a streamer or conecrator or whatever and then they
just wouldn't be able to actually stream.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
The raid if you were in a high enough guild. Yeah,
we were, we were only we were.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
A five day five hour night guild, so like, fuck it,
why not stream it?

Speaker 4 (47:47):
Mm hm, he has no I streams back in the
three D back then the good old.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Days, you're like an o G streamer.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
Yeah, well I was one of the allow was a
big time league guys, so I actually uh stream that
shit to like, yeah, damn the good old days. I
should have been a streamer back man, I could have
just been a big league streamer instead of you know, that's.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
I've thought about that.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
If you could go back in time, would you have
wanted to like build an audience before like twitch became
big And I don't know, I think it would have
like like I feel like I would just be towley.
I would just be like this og that have been
streaming forever. And I don't know if people would have
taken me seriously and invited me into top guilds to
where I could have gotten now, And like I think, uh, like,
I also like your stream presence might really blew up

(48:34):
with YouTube, So like would it have even mattered? Would
I would I have even been any bigger now had
I done that?

Speaker 1 (48:42):
There definitely was a thing where like, at least even
back back into like Legion, streamers were assumed to be
less good at the game than people who didn't stream,
and that's just not true anymore, right Like now, in fact,
you just assume the good players stream more if you're
good stream.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
Because because I mean when I think of old twitch,
I think of when a lot of like pros were streaming.
That was like back when Diris was like a top
stream of like forty was like wa same time.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Wow, that wasn't true there was and wow, it was
like yeah, if you had your group, it was like,
oh man, this.

Speaker 4 (49:18):
Is I mean sort of because I mean a lot
of people who did become big word like known to
be really good players, like I remember Soda Pop and
was known to be like a top federal player, and
same with like uh wreckful and just like various other
like Mitch Jones too, like being like an arcane guy.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
The path to being a big streamer in games is
has always been the same, right It's it's you are
like the goat, you're the best this thing in the game,
or you are really entertaining. That's that's been true since
the beginning of time and is always true. Uh, you
could kind of do both. I think the thing with
wow is there wasn't an official pro scene. There was
kind of like the MLG like arena stuff, which some

(49:58):
of the people you've mentioned did pop off from there,
but I think it was largely like personality driven. I
think you talk about what wowstreams are now the best
Wow streams bar none, just because of the way this
game is. Are you have a second monitor and you
have this stream playing on your second monitor while you're
doing something else. I think that is still different than League.

(50:20):
No one's watching a lead. No one's listening to a
league streamer in a league match on their second monitor
and just hearing noises that they're not watching. That would
just be psychotic, right, Like you're watching them play the game.
Maybe it's passively on your other monitor, but like the
point is that you're watching and not listening. That is
that's true now and that was probably still true then.
So maybe in that scenario, pro players should be more

(50:42):
of a percentage of a twitch category when your game
is just built like that, where and Wow, it's kind
of all even if you've been good, it's kind of
always been about the person.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Amamos have always had kind of an inherently I don't
want to say casual but like, uh, the it's less
about like, oh, pro gamers playing this game, right, Like,
if anything, people who play amimals a lot is just like, oh, yeah,
this person just has a lot of free time, right,
so they're playing a lot of animals. But it's not
like they're trying to be the best in the world
and anything, right, They're just like hopelessly addicted to this

(51:14):
game and they're playing at twenty four hours a day,
whereas in League people are hopelessly addicted to it, playing
at twenty four hours a day, trying to get a challenger
or whatever, trying to be like the best league player ever,
which is a little different than Yeah, a little different
incentive structure. But I do agree with you, Doorky, like
it's it is. I don't know, it's interesting to think
about as well, what it would have been like back

(51:35):
in the.

Speaker 4 (51:35):
Day, back in the good old days.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
I always think of like the the era, like when
Heartstone just launched and there were like all the big Hearthstones.
Everybody's streaming Heartstone and all the all that. There's an
interesting time on.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Twitch is that the second biggest like Twitch explosion behind
Fortnite Heartstone.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
It feels like it like it. It felt like that
is when it became super stream.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
What about like the among the month of among us
during COVID, where well, yeah, probably everybody was playing among us.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Yeah, probably anything not in COVID is not the right answer,
likely just because of like how that worked.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
But it's it felt like that. If you were in
the scene, it was just like this is it?

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Yeah for sure? Okay. One of the stuff we want
to talk about. Oh, it's Frank's birthday. Happy birthday, Frank.
Oh yeah, our lovely editor, much abused editor of the Potty.
That doesn't mean he hasn't left He's out celebrating his birthday.
He hasn't left us a a Patreon question this week.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
So my birthday present to him is, as the patch
comes out closer, I just actually do content, which part
of his income is based off.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
He give them a job.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yeah, give well he makes a you know an amount monthly.
So because because I do this right, like he makes
he makes half of what my YouTube video makes and
then he just makes a monthly salary on top of that.
But yeah, that's that's my present to him, is just
actually doing work.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Yeah, Happy birthday, Frank. My present to him was being
very mean to him earlier. That's my present to him
most days when he talks in the buddies, he discord
that is good. Okay, do we want to talk about
like he wrote some topics for us as well. We've
covered a lot of them. How about the Race World Last?
How was that this time around? I know you did
a little stream watching it was.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
I got a ton of viewers for it.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
It was definitely a little more anti climactic then, which
is probably you would assume that, right, Like what makes
Undercover rate Leading fun? What makes Razor World Last fun?
It's like the boss has to be kind of interesting
to watch, like when you're watching fire rac Ractor.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
World Last, Like, Bro, you're watching fun.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
You're watching the few people with seeds for the few
amount of mechanics you even saw at that point in
progression like that late and then you just were like,
oh my god, like why is he doing that? There's
so much stress and just watching people bumble over things
on the ground with the mechanic that if you could
hit by any of those things, everyone one dies. And
it's just like it's so it was there were so

(54:03):
many steaks and there was it was so watchable to
see them mess up.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
Bro Gallywicks.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
When you hit P two, it's just like there's just nothing,
there's nothing like that happened. You're basically just looking at
the Boss HP going lower, being like oh and then
and then that's it. There's no stakes. So I feel
like the Boss itself wasn't that good. But I am
a fan of Blizzard doing this new season thing because
I haven't been able to do the Race World last
in a while because it's always one day before Mythic

(54:31):
and I just I'm not gonna spend time making content
a day before Mythic comes out. So but now it
comes out a day before the patch, which is purely
selfishly just for me. That's great for my content, So
I'm I'm very happy about that.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
I think it does make sense as well, like if
they're gonna throw, if they're gonna give out you know,
champion track year of the next season and stuff like
that like it. I don't think it makes sense to
let people.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
I don't think it ever made sense.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Edge.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Yeah, it was a fake extra week to get cutting
edge because there's always crazy bugs.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
Which by the way, this time too, which.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Is there's gallery is actually way harder this week because
it's just the swirlaser turbocharged.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Yeah, Like things are just going around the room going
off every point one seconds. You take like thirty million
damage of lightning every time you try to chain zones. Yeah,
but like it was always a fake week to get
cutting edge because so many things changed and so many
things are bugs that like, your progression gets halted anyway,
so it's a lot harder to get So I like
it more for that, and I like the extra week
of the like preseason. I actually think we've talked about

(55:27):
a little bit earlier, but I think they they did
strike a nice balance between stuff to do this week,
Like like if if our criticism last patch was the
first week there was nothing to do, there's certainly something
to do, but not infinite amount of things to do,
And I think that's probably where they want to end up,
So it'll it'll most likely end up this way in
the future.

Speaker 4 (55:46):
You don't want to find interesting about the Race of
World last is there are so many supportive raid viewers
that only really appear when Max is like doing one
of these things, Because.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
I like, where where do these viewers really come from?
Whre where would he go?

Speaker 4 (56:04):
Because I don't really see them anywhere else, Like they
don't really they don't really have a.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Yeah, they don't be section.

Speaker 4 (56:13):
Yeah right right, because.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Just like a guilds that will like link Raced World
Last streams in their discord like that, that's.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
Who I think it is.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
I I think it is people. It's such perfect content
because I think the people tuning into watch are people
who most likely already killed the boss and they're like
rooting for the people at the end to get their kill.
It's like, and it's also super wholesome because you're just
like rooting for the every man. You're rooting for the
most like casual raid schedule person to like succeed and
times running out, so there's stakes added to it.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
And yeah a lot of times as well, it's the
person's first cutting edge if they're going to get it,
So it's like it's really really wholesome if they if
they do.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yeah, yeah, and I feel like it's yeah, like you said,
I bet all of that viewership is I go.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
See.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
The thing is, before I ever started streaming Race World Last,
I like looked in the Raid leader exchange discord, which
is like a I mean, as you can probably guess
with that discord is four and there was a race
word last channel and it was popping off, like there's
so many people posing there, They're posting different peuvs. This
wasn't just a centralized place to watch it, so it
was actually really interesting. Two people who are in while

(57:20):
rating guilds beforehand, and I just like created a place
to go to see it.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
I think, Yeah, is why you're.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Yeah, Well, because by definition, like none of the streams
that are actually streaming it are you know, big streams
that people watch. Yeah, I guess, you know, there could
be a big content creator that happened to be one
of these guilds. But usually it's just like some person
who usually streams, you know, they to their friends or whatever,
and like they don't have a following, so nobody's going
to discover it through Twitch discoverability. It was always some
of them will and stuff.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
They were getting linked to me, and before I tuned
into them, they had like three hundred or four hundred viewers,
and I when I look I looked at it in
the past, like they're their average viewers are like most
Twitch streams that are like around like one to ten
or something that right, and they're getting hundreds of people.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Like clearly, it's a something about it.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
It's like a perfect storm of stakes, time running out
and it being wholesome people you want to root for.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
To make it really good content.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Yeah, Dode, we need Warcraft Logs to make like a
you know how workoff logs has like a competition mode
thing during the race where it'll like put up the
streams of two guilds progging a boss. But then that
kind of goes away and gets hidden. They need to
bring that back in the last week and like pull out,
like okay, here's the guilds that are closest to a kill,
you know, pulling now and streaming and the streamers from
them like that. They need to just have that because

(58:34):
they basically have the code for it at the start
of a tier and then it just goes away.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Dude, what I need WOW to have is something that
other games have. And this is purely selfish, like I
want to work even less hard as a streamer energy,
but like I just get so jealous looking at league
streamers who are watching Worlds or playoffs or something that
they would be watching anyway, or like valorous streamers, Like

(59:00):
it's interesting to watch anyway and they just get to
co stream it and it's like just the most free
content of all time. Like the closest thing we have
in wow to that is like the md I or something,
which is like just not that right, So like.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
The MBI is super epic. What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Yeah, And like I don't know, I just look at
that and I'm like, bro, that seems so sweet. Like
I guess for me, what that would be is like
in a world where I'm like dead and gone and
retired from this race world first shit, and like I
can just go live and actually just watch like all
the puvis of the race as it's happening, and people
would watch me react to it like I want to
do some shit like that. That sounds like, well, I
don't want to ever quit the race at least right now,

(59:38):
so like I would, Uh, I would just love something
like That'd be so cool, dude.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
If the world first that would be, that would be
so big. All the problem is like I'm not like
the guild streams wouldn't they wouldn't let you co stream it. No,
no guild.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Would, No one would ever give you the rights to that.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Yeah, So we did with with like Asmin Gold Asmen
Gold tried to do like race World first thing one
season and it was or I guess OTV technically, but
they they wanted to do like an event, and like
the negotiating for like the rights of what they're even
allowed to show was why they never did it again,
because it's like, why would the guilds be giving up
that much value, right, And the answer is they aren't.

(01:00:19):
They're not never gonna do that. But yeah, you Doroki,
what were you gonna say about it? I don't know
if fuck yeah, Yeah, that would be sick. That would
be probably I bet the most viewers I would ever
have on Twitch ever would not be when we have
won the race, which has been I think my peak
is like one hundred and sixty k uh.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
It would not be that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
It would be as if I was actually not in
the race anymore and I co streamed and had access
to all puvs and I was watching it like come
down to the wire or something like that. I'm pretty
sure I would have like you could probably make up
any and any amount of viewers that watch the race
would be watching that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Yeah, I've thought about it. It's one of those things
where it's like that, but there's no way.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
It just won't happen.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Yeah, yeah, because I'd be able to get liquids thing.
I could probably convince liquid it's a good idea, but
like the chances.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Of Echo giving me their bout is literally no way.
Like I would never, that would never. I would have
to like steal it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
You would have to buy out the like you'd have
to You'd have to offer an amount of money that
would sound ridiculous to like to.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Create an event and then and then the and then yeah,
that's what you do. You'd have to pay so much
for it just for the first time, and then you'd
have to prove the value of it by having a
ton of viewers. And then now you have the power,
and then they would be negotiating with you to grow
the product exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Enforce it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Yeah, Blizzard would have the power to do something with that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Or you call everyone's bluff.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
You just steal everyone's content and just and just bet
that they can't.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Sue you or sue you properly.

Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
Yea, what do you do about it?

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
Like they'll hate you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
But like by the by the end of the first tier,
you would have generated so much extra value and viewership
that even though they hate you and you did it,
you're so good for the thing now that you have
all the power and they're not going to sue you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Yeah, you basically are making a bet that, like they
it wouldn't be possible for them to shut you down.
But yeah, I feel like you'd get hit with like
a d m c A from Power one by or you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Think you think Echo knows how to send out d
m c as.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Yeah, do you think I think they can figure it
out under those circumstances. I think, especially if it was
use coach.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
Think I can at least get a few days in.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Yeah, I think it would be an alert level obega
on both Echo and Method. It's like, you know, discords
or whatever. Figure it out, get you take it down, then.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
That's the that's the warfare.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Though then they're gonna like be so worried about that
they're out, they're going to not be able to true
on the race.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Yeah, well that's what we should do. Next tier is
us you know law fair.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
Right it is causing discord.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Yeah, that would be so much more exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
So that would be that would be really fun.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
That'd be so much Yeah, the toxicity that would be
so sick.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
Yeah, I'm there for Race the word for his job.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Dude, me too. I'm actually really I hope there's some
good drama this time. I hope it's really funny.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Yeah, that was like.

Speaker 4 (01:03:19):
Yeah, So, speaking of cutting edge, this is the most
amount of cutting edge we've seen in a very long time, right,
do you guys?

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
Yes, it's also.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Since like Castle Natri I think, or something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
Well, okay, well, are we going to see like a
high level of cutting edge guilds again this season?

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
I think if they still be backing raid Buff and
if they turbo boost us again, I think the answer
will probably be yes.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
And what are still be less than Galliwick's if because
I think the mens like Galliwicks was a uniquely easy boss.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
That I that is what I argued and someone on
my stream who killed the boss recently. If you guys
look at pole counts for Galliwicks recently, there's a few
like sixty to eight sprinkled in. But when I asked
my chat if you guys have killed in the last
two months, was your pull count one hundred to one
sixty one seventy somewhere in the average amount in between that,
which is by the way, a historically normal amount of pulls.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
For an end boss.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
So basically what they're arguing happened is, yeah, we got
turbo boosted, Yeah we have the stacking raid buff. But
because of that, they like never nerved this fight.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
Yeah. I was gonna say that too, because like Gal's
was saying, how like this is a historically easy boss,
but I don't think that's true for most guilds. Like,
that's probably true when you compare it to answer rec
early on, but like by the end of Answer Rec,
was that really a harder boss than Galliwick's.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
A good point.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Also, there's one really huge thing, and that is that
that boss, as easy as you think the fight is,
there are four people who can ever die, and if
they do or five whatever, where your whole raid dies.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
And yeah, I mean I'm not surprised that the final
kill guilds of Galliwicks are having one hundred and fifty
ish polec ounce. I will say, even if you want
to call like Answerrek and firec and stuff outliers like Anserak,
so I'm using progress dot io, average pole count on
Galliwicks was about one hundred on this Answerrek was two

(01:05:14):
fifty Fireraq was three seventy five, Sarkarath was two hundred
and seventy five. Vaulty Incarnates three seventy five.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
Yeah, that late into farm.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
This is this typical poll count, which I don't know,
like I guess probably the entirety of its existence, of
its life.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
I Rack at the end was just as pissed as
like Jailer and answer Ac like that boss.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Yeah, I mean it was gotten nerved a lot. But
I think that's the thing is like with Galliwicks, there
are gonna be some guilds that could kill it in
eighty poles or whatever, and so all those guilds kill it,
and then the guilds that killed it at the end
of the season, Yeah, they killed it a one hundred
fifty poles and they're the last guilds to kill Galleywicks
and they're the twenty eight hundred guild to kill Galliwicks,

(01:05:59):
And like they just would to have killed answer Ak.
It's not like Answerrek was one hundred fifty pole boss
for them, Answerk would have been a five hundred pole
boss for them. But they didn't kill Silking Court or
they didn't kill Ax their gil their guild decided that
the raid was stupid. They weren't going to raid this
year when they started pulling over an Ax or something
or Princess Caveza. Like, I do think. I do think
that at least some of the difference between and so

(01:06:20):
ANSWERAK had seventeen to fifty recorded kills gali Wick's two
thy eight hundred, so almost almost fifty more kills than
Answer Act. And I think of that fifty percent most
of it, like probably three quarters of it is because
the fight and the tier overall are like were easier

(01:06:43):
by that, Like that, I think that I think the
difficulty explains most of the extra kills.

Speaker 4 (01:06:49):
Well, so, since you're looking at that stat right now,
how many what was the last boss that took twenty
eight hundred polls from last year?

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
I mean had twenty eight hundred.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
Guilds when poll Yeah, yeah, it's one of your guilds.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Uh so wow, even Sire only had sixteen.

Speaker 4 (01:07:05):
No, no, I mean not end boss, but like what was
the boss from last tier that?

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
Okay, the narrowbar equivalent, like yes, yes, yeah, so it's
actually rach On.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
Yeah that is yeah, as many guilds that have killed
Galliwis have gone.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
More guilds killed the Gallywicks than open acts crazy at
least by whatever the metrics.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
It's not difficult, man, because like it has to be
the boost and ship the turbo boost in the stacking
red buff because like you're saying, like the historically easy raid,
but bro one arm bandit was hard for all of
Farm forever for everyone.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Muggsy was hard, right, like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
If you look at it, like Sticks was kind of weird,
and Sprocket was like, if you look at Stick, Sprocket
one arm bandit Muggsy, that's that's pretty fucking close to
like before the end boss in most tiers if not
like on the harder side. And yeah, the last boss didn't.
It wasn't three hundred poles or whatever the fuck. But
I like this saying it's like just because of Galiicks.

(01:08:13):
I don't know that's true. I don't know if this
is like a historically easier raid.

Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
I mean, I think that also goes to show that
there are a lot of guilds that want to push
beyond just killing a couple of myfic bosses. It's just
like the hurdle is way too high in I'm sure
a lot of guilds could have killed up to at
least the Silken Cord, but they probably just didn't have
the it's not worth that exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Like there's a lot of bosses you'd look at a
Narrabar palace and just be like, this is stupid, why
why are we doing this? And that didn't happen with
any of the bosses, because I think even in Liberation
of Under, like even the hard bosses, there weren't bosses
that you were just never gonna kill or like never
gonna kill unless somebody really figured it out. For like,
I think a lot of it's also raid leading. If

(01:08:57):
you look at a boss like Galliwick's, you're eventually gonna
kill it by just giving everybody muscle memory and practicing
the boss over and over again, right like that boss
is eventually going to die under those circumstances. That's not
true of Answer X, even after all of its nerves.
You need a strategy to be executed well, and you
need somebody to really understand that strategy and like diagnose

(01:09:18):
problems with it with its implementation, And that just isn't
true of Galliwicks to the same extent at all. And
I think that means that there's an ability to just
you know, pull it two hundred times if you need
to and kill the boss that doesn't That isn't often
true for end bosses. That was true for Galliwicks, actually
more true for Galliwicks than for Mugsy and Bandit I
will I'd say so killing Muggsy I think was if

(01:09:42):
you could do that, then you were going to kill
Galliwicks given the time.

Speaker 4 (01:09:48):
Yeah, So the question is are they going to do
turbo boost again and whatever else they had vist here?

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
There was so much as well, there was there was
turbo Boost, there was the belt, and there was the helmet.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
Chan Well, do you mean do you mean in the
future like season twos of expansion.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
Or do you mean next just this season? Well, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Yes, because they're gonna have to do something to make
up for the fact that I believe all of us
think there isn't gonna be a faded season, And if
there isn't gonna be a faded season, because they're either
giving us a new expansion or whatever, I think there's
gonna be. There is a remix, right, we know there's
a there's Rex. Yeah, Legion remix. So we know there's
a remix, so I don't. I just mean, like literally
the retail faded side of it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
That.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
I think they're definitely gonna do something to spice up
the end of the season, like a turbo boost like
something like that, because they're you're also like replacing this
massive new thing. There's not gonna be an entire new
mythic plus season most likely, so they're gonna have to
do something.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Could you do it also plus season?

Speaker 4 (01:10:53):
I don't see real quick the stats Does that count
the Chinese guilds too? Because I wonder that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
I'm not sure sure it uses.

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
I'm almost positive the answer to that is no, because.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
It uses the warcraft logs, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
But warcraft logs needs to have manual input. I think.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
I know raider io does.

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
Yeah, because I do wonder if that skews with data.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Yeah. So the side I was looking at for this
was progstats dot Io, which is a very cool, but
I'm not actually sure if it does include the Chinese guilds.
I guess we could see if there was a huge
jump between what was the tier where they got added back?
Was it fauld or no? It wasn't.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
It was like it was right it was nearbar it
was very recently.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Yeah, so I guess I could compare like fire Act
had twelve fifty four and answer AC had seventeen fifty
so way more than fire Act.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Their bounty went up again, Yeah, it goes every tier,
every tier. The Chinese Guild does not. When Razor World first,
their bounty gets increased by like fifty thousand dollars or
something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Yeah. I remember when they first and now that that
we were kind of theory crafting, like what what amount
would that bounty.

Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
Have to become a Chinese guild.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Yeah, because I think that that's that's the thing. It's
so tough as well, dude, the like starting on Thursdays,
that's a that's a brutal day to win to start. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
Yeah, go back to the turbo boosting. Has Blizzard mentioned
anything about how they feel about a turble boost, because
I have seen a lot of negative reception from the
community where they feel like it was too much of
a grind, it was too much of a hurdle. It
was just a pain in the ass and it makes
all gearing way worse to Oh, turbo boost was negative

(01:12:44):
from what I've seen. Yeah, I thought it was fine.
I enjoyed turble boosting, but there were a lot of
players who just felt like it was too much.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
I remember there was a lot of negativity about the
like Dinar restrictions, so much so that they made it
so you could actually get more stuff, like they buffed
than so if you did all the twelves or whatever,
you could buy mythtrack dungeon trinkets that was originally not
part of the plan. And then there was still some
negativity about the Dinars, just the fact that you needed
to like kill the mythic version of these people, right,

(01:13:14):
which is understandable, especially when that's how dinars have worked
in the past, but also understandable the Blizzard want it
to be a nerve version of that, but unfortunate and
unfortunate case of the expectation had been set and then
was not met. Besides that, I don't know, I feel
like there was like some general fatigue with the like
amount of mid season you know, like random stuff thrown

(01:13:39):
at us that was like, Hey, your guy's actually not done.
You have to go do more. Oh, hey you have
to go grind Perfect Visions, and hey you have to
go grind Dinars, and hey, you have to go grind
Dell Belt, right, Like, I think I think there was
a I've heard a decent amount of fatigue for that.
I don't know if there was negativity around the concept
of a turma boost in general, though, Like I'm not sure,
I'm not sure what the approval rating on that would be.

(01:14:00):
Maybe maybe this could maybe commenters could chime in and
let us know if they what their thoughts are on, Like,
would you like there to be another turbo boost this season?
Do you think that's something they should do every season?
If so, why? If not? Why?

Speaker 4 (01:14:14):
I do remember memes being posted around you don't have
the honey, it's time, yeah, yeah, and then the sad
guys like yes, honey, oh yeah, this whole.

Speaker 3 (01:14:25):
Situation my favorite memes.

Speaker 4 (01:14:26):
Actually yeah, it's like it's tied to log it like
tired too far of your Okay, you're high out of
the turbo booze.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Dude, the people who didn't do perfect visions as well,
and now you have to go do a five mask
so you can buy a veteran track weapon. Oh blown out,
absolute disaster if that's you out there.

Speaker 4 (01:14:47):
Yeah. So, one more thing I wanted to talk about
is you know how Wildhead always does there weekly or however,
however often they do recap of DPS charts.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
Oh yeah, yea.

Speaker 4 (01:15:00):
So they have their first one for MOP Classic New
Rate right, and you can already kind of guess what
their title was going to be, Tank Specs Top the Charts.
So I was curious to see, like, you know, what
people would say about this. So I'm just like, yeah,
I was like reading wild had Coves and people are
all like, this is the stupidest shit ever, Like why

(01:15:23):
are tanks top of the chart? Is a huge middle
finger to DPS classes remove vengeance, And I'm like.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
Matt, yeah, that's what they said back then talking DPS players.

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
Maybe it's like nobody's playing Tank. We need more tanks
out here if we want more tanks.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
Like moop is the only expansion where there my guild
has more tanks than it needs in MOP Classic because
there there are people the DPS on Live that were like, oh,
I want to play Tank and MOP because Tank is
fun and mob. So if you are somebody who is
a DPS player and you are sad about tanks doing
more damage than you, I understand that. If you're somebody
who's a DEPS player, and you're sad about not being

(01:16:05):
able to find a tank on retail. I understand that
you kind of have to pick one of those to
be more sad about and advocate for the game to
be the other way, because the like, the fact that
there is a high degree of interest in tanking is
because it is fun and broken in MOP and like,
I don't know, depspecs get to feel broken all the
time on retail, but tanking you very rarely do, and

(01:16:27):
people like that that's fun.

Speaker 4 (01:16:29):
Yeah, Blizzard figure it out before how to make tanking enticing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Yeah. I think part of the problem is that it
is it is pretty heavily concentrated in like really good tanks,
like if you were a if you're a medium tank,
you kind of don't feel.

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
Much in that it's very ill intensive. I would say
the damage came along with it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
But I also think that you would see a lot
more people playing tank if is if the game defensively
felt like it felt a MOP. But again, that's again
that's if you're a good player.

Speaker 3 (01:16:57):
Like the thing is, why why was good players I didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
Because if you were good enough, you could never die
and do infinite damage, and if you were just slightly
worse than that.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
That was not true. It was like you had full.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
Agency if you were good enough managing your vengeance cap
figuring when to use things based on when you have vengeance.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
Yeah, it's fuck, it's fuck. It was.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
It was the most fun tanking ever was. It's not close,
it's insane. But now it's gone, so you'll see. You'll
see if it was like that, you would have even
if you took the damage part away, it would still
be more fun.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
And Resolve never was that.

Speaker 4 (01:17:31):
Well, was there a way that we can recapture that
feeling without the downsides?

Speaker 3 (01:17:34):
They tried with Resolve. They literally tried it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
They tried to give you vengeance defensively without any of
the damage, and it just wasn't the same. It didn't defensively,
it didn't feel the same. Also, they'll never do it
because I think that's really important to them, is in
general in this game, and this is probably also true
for tanking.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
Is is it they They really really.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Want to reduce how much better you can be than someone.
They want to lower the delta between the best and
the average.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
That is true, Yeah, And I.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
Think it's pretty reasonable as well for tanks because, like
man it sucks to be paired with the tank, like
to just queue up the differencetween quing up with a
good tank and a bad tank and mop is like crazy, right,
it's night and day. And that was understandable not just
for the not just for the worst tank, but for people,
for the dps and dealers that play with them.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Yeah, and and in.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
A way that could even have less people tanking maybe
like yeah, you'd have more good players tanking, but when
you have more player thanking, I don't know, because they
would feel inferior.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
Yeah, it's a that is true. It's one of those
things as well, where like wow, how across the population
of Wow, there are probably there are probably very few
people that actually harness, you know, vengeance the way that
they made it a mop. But for those people to
be the most fun version of the game has ever been.

Speaker 4 (01:18:49):
Yeah, bro, when you were you're a prom you're a teenager.

Speaker 3 (01:18:56):
Actually, I don't think that was my prime.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
I think I pretty much got better at the game
all the way up until I stopped, like obviously playing
every patch, But that's what I felt like I was
in my prime, just because you're young and you're better
than everyone and you you're just fucking in your own head,
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:19:13):
Bro, maps twenty years ago, that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:19:17):
Yeah, yeah, just twenty years ago for sure, Dude.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
Legion was ten years ago now almost.

Speaker 3 (01:19:25):
Nine, I guess right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
No, it's nine. Legion launched like nine years ago this month.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
I think, Bro, so many people just listen to that
on this podcast and their days are fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
Wait, dude, maybe it's ten. No, it was not. Yeah,
it was twenty sixteen. It was twenty sixteen, for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:19:41):
It was announced ten years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
Yeah, it was because it launched, Yeah, launched like August
to twenty sixteen.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
People's heads they can still remember, just like running around
and grinding ap and you just reminded them that was
fucking nine years ago. Went through an entire pandemic in
the amount of time that Legion was out, and oh no,
BFA was That's is that part of the reason why
season four BFA was awesome was it was just in
the middle of a pandemic and everyone was home.

Speaker 4 (01:20:10):
I mean, it's definitely part of it, right, because anytime
you think about the best times of WOW is when
it's like who you were playing with and what was
happening at the time, not so much of the content itself.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
Yeah, yeah, but like think about.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
It, who would have been playing at the end of
an expansion. Not as many people, but a lot of
people came back because there was a fucking pandemic and
that's why it's like so many people played and like,
I mean it it was good because it was just good,
but also I think it mattered that everyone was home
and everyone was playing, got to play with the boys.

Speaker 4 (01:20:42):
Yeah, in the good old days of pandemic.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Yeah, the good old I mean. So there were many
of the industries that got absolutely torched by the pandemic,
and video games and streaming were not one of them.

Speaker 3 (01:20:52):
That was great.

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
Oh yeah, it was huge for us. Like my stream
blew up during the pandemic.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Yep, we need a new plague. Yeah yeah, that's our fish,
We need the new plague. We need longer early access,
bought windows and remove delves and yeah that's our that's
our official podcast platform, so please like and subscribe and
uh yeah, anybody got any other topics anything else that

(01:21:20):
we want to want to cover this week?

Speaker 3 (01:21:23):
Question?

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
No, Frank I said it was his birthday. He's his
birthday present to himself. Was not doing his job, which
he does every day. He kind of it's his birthday
every day, I guess apparently.

Speaker 3 (01:21:33):
Yeah, he's always his birthday. He's always old Brady.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Yeah, love you Frog, Happy birthday, birthday, Bud. Thanks for
cutting out all that dead air earlier. You're a great editor.
Al Right. Yeah, uh, that's it. Then that's it, round
of stuff to talk about. We're done with the podcast.
We'll see you maybe next week, and then I don't know,

(01:21:57):
sometime I'm gonna sneak a camera into the Quick Place
and we're gonna film Max and stuff. We'll do an
impromptu episode. Maybe we're stocking up on Patreon content to
keep the good supported if we can. Yep, we're gonna
we're gonna do that. We're gonna make sure that there's
a there's some bonus content for you. So uh yeah,

(01:22:18):
thank you body, see you later, audios. H