Early PairWise tiers, surprising finishes to 2024 and a look ahead to 2025

On the final edition of the PodKaz before the winter break, hosts Nicole Haase and Todd Milewski look back at surprising results from last weekend, including Holy Cross' overtime win over Boston College and Post shutting out Sacred Heart. The weekend results also included Minnesota Duluth getting five of six points against St. Cloud State and Princeton rallying past Quinnipiac in overtime.

Then it's time for the first in-depth discussion of the PairWise Rankings this season, with a look at the tiers that have developed. Make sure to check out an explanation of the NPI and Nicole's take on the shortsighted nature of the NCAA tournament expanding to 11 teams.

The show wraps up with a look at college players in the Six Nations Tournament and a discussion of what surprises may lie ahead in the second half of the NCAA season.

The PodKaz is a production of USCHO.com. Have a question for our mailbag? Reach out to Nicole (@NicoleHaase) or Todd (@ToddMilewski) on social media or email [e-mail].

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Us cho dot com. I have one welcome back to
the podcast todd Leski here with Nicole Hosey from us
ho dot com. Nicole, last week in women's college hockey
a lot of surprises. I don't know that I saw

(00:24):
a lot of the results that we ended up seeing
coming before the weekend because a bunch of games with
the overtime, a bunch of results that maybe maybe we're
not the ones that we thought of. I guess that's
the way things go in middle of December hockey, when
you have some teams that are getting into exam period

(00:44):
that it gets a little stressful. It's a it's a
weird time of the season, and I don't know if
that's the reasoning for it or if it's just that
you never fully know what to expect here.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Well, yeah, I love When I first started this role,
we used to do every week, and goodness was I
bad at it. And I'm so glad we don't have
to do that anymore because I feel like every time
I feel like I've got a grasp on what a
team's doing and what they're gonna, you know, how they're
going to perform, like that all turns on its head.
So I mean, where do we want to start. Was
it maybe Boston College losing to holy Cross Friday?

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Right? Holy Cross takes Boston College overtime, holy Cross the
home team and gets away with a two to one
overtime victory. Which you know, Boston College has been on
a you know, not necessarily a completely straight upward climb,
but you know, there's been a few bumps here and there.
But I thought they'd kind of iron some of that out.

(01:44):
And then they get thirty nine shots on goal and
only score one goal for for holy Cross. Abbey Horning
with the thirty eight saves to get the overtime win.
Holy Cross scorers that it's only goal only shot of
overtime from a.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
And but that was a beauty of a play. If
folks haven't seen that, holy Cross has that on their
Instagram or i'm sorry, on their their ex their twitter, uh,
and you should go find it because that's a it's
a pretty good individual effort. But yeah, and not only
did holy Cross take that land, but they take the
season series. The two had sweit their games before, so yeah,
they have the two wins over BC this season. And yeah, again,

(02:24):
I just didn't mean to cut you off. But yeah,
just super surprising. I BC has been much better, much
more offensive than that. So I mean, kudos to the goaltender,
kudos to Holy Cross's defense, but yeah, they've they were
I wouldn't say scoring it will, but just really really
tactively offensive and picking out their spots and really scoring

(02:46):
goals that way. So surprising that they only got the
one here and then yeah, just you know, we've talked
about this like it's so it can be frustrating, which
is like unfair, baby, but like I get frustrated when
I'm like, you have all this opportunity, like it was
on the table in front of you, You've done so well,
and like these are points you have to take. These
are points that you can't be giving up. No affronts

(03:07):
to Holy Cross, like obviously kudos to them, and like
it continues to show that, you know, parody is much
more it's much better than it you know it has
been in the past, and you can't take any game
for granted. But yeah, I just not mad. I'm just disappointed.
Boston College. I just really was like me and I
feel like of all the teams, I feel like maybe
I'm extra hard on them or something, but of all

(03:28):
the teams in Hockey East, they're the team that whenever
like I feel like they're starting to climb up, like
they have games like this where I'm just like, oh,
so frustrated for you, because I just I think the
opportunity is there for them, and I think the talent
is there, and so when you do stuff like this,
I mean, they put themselves. They're now third place in
Hockey East standings heading into the winter break, and it's close. Obviously,

(03:51):
I think they're one point behind Yukon in number in
the number two spot, but still it just I have
a feeling some of the stuff's gonna come down to those,
you know, single points. It's in goodness if you're gonna
end up in that tie, in that situation, at the
very least, you can't give up the overtime.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
So I do have to take something back that they
did have three shots on goal hol Across. I was
reading it the wrong way, so they outshot Boston College
three nothing in the overtime, So take that back. But
also Boston College is We're gonna talk a little bit
more about this later in the pair. Wise, they're in
a decent spot right now. They're sitting sixth, but that's

(04:29):
a it's a really sharp drop off from from there.
So overtime losses obviously count less than regulation losses in
in the arithmetic that goes into the pair wise, so
it's not as much, and road overtime losses count even less.
It's not as much of a hit. But when you're

(04:52):
when you're playing teams that are far below you in
the pair wise, those are ones you got a win,
and that's you know, Holy Cross sitting at twenty third,
that's that's a pretty uneven matchup and in that perspective,
but credit to the Crusaders for getting that done and
coming out of there with a win. And that makes

(05:12):
the holiday season a lot brighter when you get into
those kind of results for Holy.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Thow Right, and I think the other thing for Boston
College is you just have to think about the fact
that like your opponents and the and the teams you're
fighting against for those final eleven spots, whatever they may be,
they are in w CCH and in ECAC are getting
more credit for playing other ranked teams, and in Hockey
East just overall, your strength of schedule isn't the same

(05:40):
and you don't have as much of an opportunity to
make up some of that ground, and so you're sort
of already starting at a disadvantage with some of that stuff.
And that's why things like these losses are kind of
frustrating and disappointing, just because there are games you're gonna lose.
There are games against other, you know, top teams in
your conference, like you're you're gonna take some hit, So
you have to be taking all of the points that

(06:02):
you can get in other opportunities. And so yeah, that's
that's why I feel so like strongly about like, ugh,
this is so you got to do better than this.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Also on Friday in New Ha, post seventh out of
eight teams in New Ha at home the Sacred Heart,
and I had to double check on this one post
three Sacred Heart zero. Not the direction of the score
that I was expecting to see there, especially when.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Post that was their fourth win of the season.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, and is outshot forty six to eighteen, but gets
a power play goal, gets a I I don't know
if it was a shorthanded goal or not, and in
another goal early in the third to make it a
three nothing game, and off they got a pretty rowan

(06:55):
ringor is the goal scorer of two of those goals,
by the way for Post, so two goal game there.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
And she's having a great season. She's a freshman and
leading their team and goals and among new HAU leaders.
So somebody to keep an eye on there. For sure.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
It fit into the weekend results. I guess when you
look at it, it's like, oh, it's like, oh, okay,
this is gonna weekend we shake things up a little bit.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
I feel like, didn't I text you about this one
because you were at the bagmen's game and I was like, uh,
so that happened. Uh, just because we've been talking so
much about what a great start Sacred Heart had had
and all that sort of stuff that this just really
felt like it came out of left field. And I
wonder if this is one of those like looking ahead
to winter break in the fatigue of the season and

(07:37):
all that sort of stuff. But that being said, the
two teams tied in the second game and Post won
the shootout, so it's not like it was a one
off for Post and Sacred Art came out the next
day like learn their lessons sort of thing. So it's
the two EAMs in a row that's probably the more
concerning part whenever they're sort of that that the worst

(07:58):
thing going back for a second form Boston colladoris they
like can't bounce back from that, Like they have to
sit on that. There's no like coming back and like
proving themselves for a full month. So so in this
particular series, I just thought it was interesting that that
like Sacred Heart didn't take that loss. So you usually
see sort of a bounce back from from the better team,
you know, and and so it was it was telling

(08:20):
to me that that that second game also didn't go very.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Well, and the Sacred Heart still leads New Hot, but
it's lead is only one point over l i U,
both those teams having fourteen conference games played, so that
that race was pretty much eliminated.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, any lead they head is you.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Know, I'm here for for races that go right down
to the wire. And absolutely I'm not loving the margin
that there there is in like there c h A
for instance, or Wisconsin's up eleven points on Duluth in
second place, but there's I think the intrigue is much

(09:02):
greater when you get in those last couple of weeks
and you've got one point or two points separating teams
and sometimes they even play each other and for sure
against each other to decide those championships.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, and I put into twos. We're recording on Tuesday.
LU just lost to Princeton for two, which is still
a loss. But Princeton's the team that just went out
and scored all of those goals two weeks ago, two
weekends ago, and it's just this offensive powerhouse and so
I you know, like I said to you before we started,
I was not expecting Princeton to score half as many

(09:35):
goals against LU as they did against BU. So I
for me, just because we're talking about LU, like that's
a really good sign for the Sharks and like what
they're going to be able to do in New Hot
Like if they they're scoring on a very good team
and not allowing quite as many goals as is pretty
much everyone else that's had to face Princeton lately. You know,
I think that that fight for between LU and Sacred

(09:57):
Heart is going to be really interesting. And LU has
the bonus of having run away with the regular season
last year and then sort of fizzled out in the playoffs,
so they have they have some and finished business. So
they're a team that really wants to push through to
the end, and I feel like, you know, sort of
that that anger could really carry you in those tough fights.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Ye speaking of Princeton back into the Usho dot Com
pole at number fourteen this week after a two to
one overtime victory over number nine Quinnipiac. And that was
one of those games we highlighted last week as being
a little of a test of which team's style of
game was going to come out, and maybe it still

(10:39):
was Quinnipiac's style of game. It was two to one.
It wasn't, you know, like we were talking about it's
twenty five goal weekend for Princeton or anything like that again,
But the Princeton got the win, and it had to
come back and to do it, Lawrence Fnette had Fornetti
had the goal for Quinnipiac in the second period. Sarah
Paul scores six twenty seven and the third to tie

(11:00):
it on a power play, and that scores again in
overtime to win it for Princeton in front of a
pretty good crowd at Hope Baker Rink two eleven eighty
two listed as the attendance there, which is kind of cool.
To see that, you know, people recognizing that there were
some pretty good hockey being played there last Saturday, and
I just don't know. Okay, So here we are with

(11:21):
Princeton at now nine and five, what are what are
we making of this? I guess is where what I'm
getting at, there's still there's still not tenants, pretty far
down the ECAC standings. They have some games to make
up on some of the teams that are ahead of them,

(11:42):
but I'm still not totally sure what the make of
things here right now.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
I mean I would argue that they just had a
really slow start. I mean, all but one of their
losses came in the opening weeks of the season, right
like they they started with a series and wins against
Robert More, but it's lost to Yale, lost to Brown,
lost to Saint Lauris, lost to Clerkson, and then things
turn around and they have to win over Colgate and
it's the one goal lost to Cornell is the only
one they have after that. So you know, it took

(12:12):
him a little while to heat up. And you know,
we've talked before about Ivy League teams and coming in
at a disadvantage, and so yeah, I think for them,
it's about continuing to build and prove that the beginning
of the season was the fluke and what we're seeing
now is is who they really are. And if they
continue on this trajectory, I think, you know, well, we

(12:34):
they'll be fire up in the standings and we'll be
this this conversational and be a distant memory. So I mean,
I think the way that we've seen them play, you know,
in the last couple of weeks, is probably more indicative
of who they are. And yeah, it's up to them
to continue to prove that. And they're just going to
have to keep winning those games, those really important games.
They you know, they come back and they have RPI

(12:56):
Union right away to start the season, and like, those
are games they have to win. Those are teams well
below them in the standings. But then they go through
that gauntlet of Kwinnipiac, Yale, Cornell, Colgate and uh yeah,
that's that's where they're gonna have to prove themselves. They
have to come out of that with like several wins
and and a lot of points. That's the only way
they're they're gonna make up for what the beginning of

(13:16):
the season did to them, Right, And I do want
to just you know, maybe I should apologize to Kaylee
Doyle from Quinnipiac, the GOALIEO I touted last week is
one of the best in the conference because she had
to come out of her net to play a puck
in overtime. Uh, got it past the past Sarah Paul,
who was the one that was pushing at her, but
as she played it off the boards, that went right

(13:38):
to Jane Keele and she is the one that carried
it in and Kalle Doyle got back to her crease.
But obviously with scrambling and brilliant play by Jane Keele
who held the puck until the last second and then
passed it back behind Kalle Doyle through the crease to
Sarah Paul at the back post to win. I mean,
absolutely gorgeous play, killer patients and vision from Jane Keel

(13:59):
to It's a really rough situation for Khaley Doyle, right
like she's got to come out and play that puck
because Sarah Paul's coming down the ice and she's not
gonna let the Princeton player just have that puck for
free in on her. But yeah, I feel maybe after
like tout and how great she was last week. I'll
apologize to Hiey Doyle if I gave her any jinks,
because that was an unfortunate way for that really great

(14:21):
game to end for Quinnipiac. But a really gorgeous player
from Jane Keel, who's definitely of all the people we've
been talking about from Princeton in the scoring, she's not
been one of the ones we've talked about, so absolutely
the hero of that game.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
I don't know if there's a podcast Jinx, I haven't
heard of it yet, but maybe I.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Just felt like that's just such an awful way to
lose that game.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
In Atlantic hockey last weekend a result a couple of
results I wanted to point out, Syracuse got a pair
of four to one wins over Robert Morris, so eight
goals scored in the series, five of them by Brince Saraala,
which is, you know, heck of a weekend. Three goals
and an assist on Friday, two goals and an assist

(15:06):
on Saturday, so seven of the eight goals she had
a goal or assist on uh tip of the cap
there for for that performance, uh for the Orange and
getting a couple of wins there, but really for the
the the individual performance there, which is something that you know,
really stands out when so on the front page of

(15:29):
us c h O dot com on the on the
Division one women's homepages, a little little box that shows
the top weekly performances, and that one really stood out.
There was an eight point performance by Addy Murphy three goals,
five assists, eight points from Eddie Alvarez from r T
a goal and seven assists. But then there's this five
point five goal outing from britt Sarala that you know

(15:52):
shows up there and that's a you know, something something
to remember I would imagine for for her.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, and as you mentioned, she had to me off.
We talked about before it. She she played four years
the Holy Cross and had something like twenty goals the
entire time, twenty one goals and she's got ten halfway
through her single season so far with with Syracuse. So
just great, glow up, great you know, improvement and just yeah,
like you said, that's going to be a weekend to remember.

(16:19):
Just a heck of a performance from her. And we
apologize if we're saying your name wrong. There wasn't a
pronunciation guide on the roster.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Eighteen points this season already better than any of her
first four seasons at holy Cross. So yeah, that's a
start to the season. And yeah, that's what you like
to see from an individual perspective. I mentioned the Abbey
Murphy result there. Minnesota did get a pair of wins
over Saint Thomas last weekend, and we had looked at

(16:47):
looked ahead to that as one of those well let's
let's take a look at this. Yeah, there is to
see if there's anything to look at here, and it
really was Minnesota taking care of business.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah. Absolutely, Five to.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Nothing was the score on Friday, and I believe it was.
It was a big score in the next six to two. Yeah,
so h that's that's Minnesota doing what it needed to
do on a on the other team's home ice. Elsewhere
in the w c h A though, we had the

(17:21):
Minnesota loose sink Cloud State series and the luth got
the better of that one.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
It was a one to one tie on Friday, and
I didn't write it down, but I thought the luth
got the extra point that I am I okay, and
then the Luth with a three to one win on
Saturday to wrap that series up. That is one of
those for me that and I'm interested in your perspective

(17:49):
on this too, But we had kind of thought that, Okay, here,
here's a series that might separate these teams in the
standings down the road, and it's the Looth that's got
a pretty good leg up right now and vaulted the
Bulldogs in the second place in the conference, ahead of
Ohio State, ahead of Minnesota, and so a pretty good
place to start the second half of the season from

(18:09):
for Duluth.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, I agree. I mean, they were close games, they
were hard fought games, and I think it's just really
sort of empowering to come out of that right in
the position that they're in. And I think, you know,
looking at the rest of the teams in this conference,
I don't think if we'd have told Daluth that they'd
be the number two team in the WCA going into
the winter break, they'd have happily, you know, happily taken that.

(18:33):
So I think sort of of all the transfers and
some of the bigger name players and stuff, I'm impressed
with what sort of Duluth has done without all that
sort of attention and that sort of stuff. Kitlyn Kramer
continues to come along and just be probably my favorite
rookie to watch so far this year. I just really
enjoy the way she plays. I enjoyed watching her U

(18:55):
eighteens and she continues to come into her own and
really I think game her confidence within the college game
and with a UMD system. Yeah, I'm not sure what
I expected out of the series, and in some ways,
you know, the outcome is exactly what we'd have expected
in that, like they were pretty close games and that

(19:16):
sort of thing. But yeah, I Minnesota luth coming out
and where they are at this part of the season
is definitely wasn't on my Bengo card. What about you?

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, I mean, I think my my perspective changed right
away the opening weekend when the Luth went to Ao
say it and won two games, And so then you're
you're thinking, well, okay, I got to recalibrate some things here,
and maybe that's and really I don't know if that
pushes them over the top at the end into a
second or third position, but uh, it did maybe reframe

(19:48):
some of the expectations I had for this season.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Definitely made the ceiling you seem a lot higher.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Right, a change of a season, right because you got
a new head coach Laura Schuler, You've got a you know,
some massive players for them that moved on after last
season and and I didn't fully know what to expect there,
And for seeing that, I think that that pushed things
ahead and maybe move things along a little faster than

(20:17):
I thought. Maybe they'd go for the Bulldogs now looking
ahead the things I look at of that. Okay, so
they've already played at Ohio State and at Wisconsin. They
they've played Minnesota at home. So in the second half
they have to go to Minnesota, but they get Ohio
State and Wisconsin coming to them. Now State, it's gonna
be geared up for that one, shall we say, when

(20:40):
that one happens. But having those opportunities to play them
at home, you might end up being in their favor
when when we start adding things up towards the end here.
But it's and really it might come down to that
last weekend of the season. As I'm looking at their schedule,
at Minnesota on the final weekend is got a pretty
good chance of deciding. Yeah, some of the spots in

(21:04):
the league, So yeah, that will definitely be fun to
watch as we get closer to that one. Okay, when
we come back. We will talk a little bit about
the pairwise rankings. Yes, it's just about time to start
talking about the pairwise rank rankings. I will give in
to that now and say we're ready as we get
close to the middle of December and get ready for
the second half of the season, stay with us on

(21:25):
the podcast. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Todd Maluski
here with Nicole Hasey. Nicole, it is the middle of December.
It is We've only got a few games left in
twenty twenty four before we get into the real stretch

(21:49):
run of the season, the last two months January and
February of the regular season. So I'm going to say
it's time to talk about the pairwise rankings.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
And you have teamed it, so I have I do.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
I have this problem where I'm I'm always worrying about
looking at it too early and reading things into it
too early, because you know they were designed to be
read one day a year, and that's everything is done.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
That's no fun.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
You're right, but that's no fun. That would not get
us through the I would love to wildly when you
know sunset is at four fifteen and uh in in
December and then in the January. No, that would not
help us out there. So let's look at it.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Please here for your logic. I don't like, let's wildly
speculator here for all right.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Let's start doing that. I thought maybe it would be
interesting to look at the pairwise in terms of tears,
where teams stand right now, and how we can kind
of divide U divide them up a little bit into
you know, who's competing for what when we start up
in twenty twenty five, and it's really clear where we're

(23:00):
looking kind of at where the NPI number is. That's
one of the components of the pair wise. You're compared
in your NPI ranking, in your common opponents, in your
head to head matchups against every other team. That's where
you get the pairwise number, how many matchups you win
against the other forty three teams in the country. So

(23:20):
Wisconsin right now is pretty clearly almost nine full points
ahead in number one in the pairwise and it's just
seems like they've pushed themselves up there with a nineteen
to one record. No one's close to that. It's in fact,
the number two win percentage is Clarkson at sixteen three

(23:43):
and one. So there's the Badgers are up there. I
think they're in a tier by themselves. When we're talking
about pairwise, I don't necessarily think we're talking about them
being in a tier by themselves competitively, because I will
put Ohio State in the same tier as Wisconsin competitor
just because of the way they've played each other and
knowing they are.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Sure. Yeah, we are looking at the numbers right now.
These are no no, no commentary on anybody's quality of play,
because if.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
It comes down to Ohio State and Wisconsin championship game
and w and C A championship exactly, it's it could
go either way, so that that is a little bit
different there. But in terms of the pairwise, Wisconsin tier
one by themselves, and I think that's a pretty safe
assumption just from what we're seeing by the numbers for sure.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
And I think maybe just wanted to say that, like
we do. I we can maybe put it in the
show notes and I'll put it out on Twitter and
Blue Sky as well. But we do have a little
breakdown of like what the NPI is and it's how
some of that is calculated. And I do not math.
We are writers. We are journalists, so I try to
explain it as simply as I can and also possibly

(24:51):
very wrongly, but yeah, these are all just the different
calculat This is what the selection committee is going to
look look at. And so we switched from RPI to
NPI last year, and one of the things that I
tried to keep a little bit of track of is
how much an NPI number could change week to week.
And we did see occasionally a movement of as as

(25:11):
much as a whole point right like or or even
a little bit more so when you're looking at these numbers, like, yes,
if you get a win over a team ranked over you,
who has you know, like I don't know what we're
talking about. Like if somebody further down, like Saint Cloud
State got a win over Wisconsin, they would get a
huge bump from that, right like, not just because of themselves,

(25:34):
but because of who it is they're beating. But generally
we're seeing movement of between I'd say like point three
one point six per game if there is a jump
in NPI. Just to give people an idea of what
we're talking about, I also just wanted to say that, like,
so Minnesota's NPI right now in number, they're the number
two team is sixty one point eight twenty five. Saint

(25:54):
Cloud State is currently eleven, and there's this fifty six
point three. So you were talking, I wish five and
a half points between number two and a number eleven.
Just to put into perspective, that nine point lead that
Wisconsin hads is pretty massive when you compare how close
everybody else is.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, And one other thing I want to point out
about the values of games is that that changes as
the season goes on to because it because right now
there's you know, only half of the number of games
that there will be in the pool. So you can
see where where one of those games means a lot
more than it will when it's one of those games

(26:34):
means more when it's one of eighteen compared to when
it's one of thirty four or thirty six or whatever
you're looking at at the end of the conference season.
Because it's like a batting average in baseball. You know,
your first day of the season one at bad changes
at a ton you're last at bad of the season.
One at bad changes it by a point here and there,

(26:54):
you know, a couple points, So that that does factor
into it, too.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Right, And so just because of the way that the
NPI is calculated, it's sort of like an ad infinitum
like all of how what's a better way to say that,
It's just a consistent calculation that like goes on forever.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
He never stops you want it unless you want it
to write.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
So that is part of like not only your your
sort of baseball analogy, which I actually think is really useful,
but just the idea that like, because these calculations are
constantly happening, it is both a calculation of your own
NPI but also all the teams you played and so
there all of that information goes into that calculation. And
that's why Todd's like, Hm, is it too early to

(27:39):
talk about it, because there's so much more information that
will go into this before we get to the end
of the season.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, but you're right, at some point we just have
to say, Okay, time to start with this, because you know,
the difference between December one and December eleventh is is,
you know, minimal at this point, So let's let's just
get in it right now. So I think Tier two
when we're talking about after Wisconsin, we've got Minnesota and

(28:06):
second Ohio State and third Minnesota, d Luth and fourth
and Colgate and fifth. Now the difference there Minnesota at
the top of that tier sixty one point eight two five,
Colgate and fifth at fifty nine point one sixty three.
So a little bit of separation there, not a ton,
but there there is a little bit of a separation
between five and six. So that that group of four
there Minnesota, Ohio State, Minnesota, the Luth and Colgate. So

(28:29):
the obvious thing there is that that's three WHA teams
one ECAC team. So those WHA teams are gonna be
playing each other, and and there's you can't both get
all of the NPI points then obviously for that, so
there's gonna be some movement around there. I would imagine
there's gonna be some with Colgate two because I don't
I don't see anyone necessarily running the table here, and

(28:49):
so you're gonna bounce, You're gonna bounce up, you're gonna
bounce down. It's gonna happen. But I see more volatility
with that two, three, and four in the w c
h A potentially because of the games that they have
to play against each other. But I think Colgate might
then you know, have have that opportunity to or enter

(29:12):
the conversation Boston College down there in six two when
you're talking about four and five. The difference there, of
course is hosting that first game or that the round
of eight game in the NCAA tournament. So yes, not
having to play the Thursday game, right, So a lot

(29:35):
on the line there is you get in the four, five,
and six discussion of where you are in the pair
wise So I, I guess I'm just interested in your
your take on where you see those teams, I mean, Minnesota,
House State, Minnesota, Colgate kind of existing at this point.

(29:57):
You know, it's been a challenge in some stretches for
all of these teams.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah. Absolutely, I I like the idea of tears because
I think I agree with you that I'm barring some
you know, major changes for any of them if they
continue to play the way you've seen them play. Like,
I expect these teams to finish within this area of
the pairwise right to get a top five ish seed

(30:22):
in the NCAA tournament. But it's so hard to tell.
I will say that I'm tried to track just because
of the NPI getting new, being new, trying to track
how much could win or lose. But when you're talking
teams playing each other, that that sort of adds a
whole new dimension to it. But like, and then when
we get into MPI, because they take out they take

(30:46):
out wins that would hurt your ranking, and so like,
I don't I'm not entirely sure.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Right where your ranking losses that help your ranking both
get there's some adjustment for both sides there, right.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
And I'm not clear on like if like Minnesota the
loose forst Minnesota, Like where if Yeah, I'm not saying it.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Well, yeah, it's so. On ushl dot com when you
go to the pairwise page, you'll see there's an asterisk
on some teams NPI numbers. There's a pound sign on
some team's NPI numbers. The asterisk means that they have
won a game against a team that is low enough

(31:39):
in the pairwise that it or in the NPI that
it brought down the winning team's NPI number, which isn't
allowed to happen, so those things get taken out. The
pound sign means a team has gained points by losing
to a strong team, and so those also get thrown out.
It's just a function of trying to make wins valuable

(32:04):
and losses hurt, I guess, and not let you know
who you're playing, or let who you're playing only matters
so much not not taking it over, you know, like
changing the direction of the gauge from negative depositive right.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
So you can't like schedule only bring to teams and
just hope that all of your losses end up right
like I think that's.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
At the bottom, right, and just feed off the fact
that you're winning everything.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, trying to account for that.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
So there's a lot in there. I know a lot
of our listeners are probably better at math and better
at either of us.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Is never feel as stupid as when I'm talking about this.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Well it's uh, sometimes you just got to keep talking
and it's maybe it starts making sense. I don't know,
but anyway, Yeah, that's tier two. Tier three gets into
a big mix of tea teams from the way I'm
looking at it in the with the NPI numbers, and

(33:04):
we're starting at at number six with Boston College. That's
BC's fifty seven points six seven seven.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
So there's not a planet if you told me to
guess where BC's pair wise was, right, now that I would.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Have got six, No, exactly, wasn't wasn't expecting that. But
then you go down and keep going, keep going. So
within two points in the NPI you get to thirteen,
and that's Northeastern at fifty five point seven ninety seven.
So between six and thirteen, which is a massive, massive

(33:38):
number of teams considering they're forty four total. That that's
that's that's everyone. That's everyone that's in the mix right
now for an at large spot. Uh And they're in
that within two points of each other in the NPI range.
And that's wild. So we know this is going to

(33:59):
shake up in the second half of the season. You're
gonna get teams playing each other, teams getting on a
run and moving up, teams falling off and playing themselves
out of contention. But I'm loving this that that there's
all these teams that are, you know, a stone's throw
from each other and able to make a lot of
change happen week to week.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Yeah, And I mean it's good for the sport, right,
Like it's good for the fans, it's good for motivation.
It's just like it's amazing to say that, Like, I mean,
even if we get generous and go down to like
three points. That takes us, like it still takes us
to like seventeenth. Like the idea that there are this
many teams within like one good or one bad weekend
of making the NCAA tournament like in December, that's awesome,

(34:44):
And like that's not saying that teams below that couldn't
because like Princeton's at seventeen right now, and as we said,
like we expect that to change for them. But yeah,
the idea that like this is so volatile. I mean,
my most used phrase is here, but like team chaos man,
like I love this. It is so good to be
able to know that, like I mean quite literally every
game matters, and you know, going back to the beginning,

(35:07):
like when I'm harping on like you can't have these losses,
like this is why because the margins are so thin
right now and there's so many teams in contention, and
I always go back to you know, Cass Turner saying
last year that she felt like Quinnipiac was one goal
was the difference in them making the postseason or not.
So you know, when they like broke it down and

(35:27):
looked at their their outcomes and that sort of stuff
like that's that's nuts, but that's how things have have
become in women's d WANT hockey, and it's like it's amazing,
Like I just I think this is so cool. I mean,
we're we were talking. You know, it's too many, maybe
too many WHA teams at the top, but like right
now you've got four four Hockey East teams in this

(35:48):
tier that we're talking about, Like one of them is
gonna win the conference and it's possible the other three
don't even make the tournament. That's craziness. But in the
best possible way.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
We're at six is Boston College. I mentioned seven clarks
and eight Cornell, nine Quinnipiac. So you get that run
of three straight ECAC teams there that will be competing
for the championship and competing for all sorts of things
against each other in the second half.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
But then and arguably Cornell's will because Cornell's only got
what eleven until thirteen games. You know, this is the
first IVY league we're talking about, and they're just like
their number is going to be like their number is
going to be more vild hel because they still got
so few games played compared to.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Everybody else, So bus at ten, Saint Cloud eleven, Saint
Lawrence twelve, Northeastern thirteen. Then you get into the Penn State, Connecticut,
man Cato. The teams that really are not in a
great position to be talking about anything at large wise
right now would have to go on an incredible run

(36:54):
to make themselves a factor in there, because the cutoff
is really for an eleven teen tournament where there are
two bids coming from conferences that don't currently have a team,
any team in this neighborhood. The cutoff then is after nine,
and right now that's between Quinnipiac and Boston University, and

(37:15):
they are separated by less than one tenth of a
point as I'm looking at it here in zero. So
it's that that it's going to come down to the
last the conference championship weekend, who's playing, who's not playing,
Who makes it to the final, who doesn't make it

(37:35):
to the final for that that last spot. We're looking
a little farther down the line here when we're talking
about into March. But to be.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Clear, this is why I'm talking about, like, you can't
afford that loss, so you can't have lost that in
overtime because this is how close the margins are and
it's only going to get continued like this, Like that's
not we will have movement within us, but for the
most part, like those those that cloteseness, like the difference

(38:06):
between making the tournament and not is going to end
up being mighty small.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yeah, and that's I mean, when you've got forty four teams,
that's the way it's going to go. Because yes, there's
a team that's pushed itself way far ahead of everyone
else in terms of the numbers, but everyone else is
kind of like in the same mix and playing the
same thing. So that's that should be really entertaining as

(38:29):
we give them the meat of the season here in
the January and February.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah, I feel like teams have to look at it
that like, if I'm not winning this period, if I'm
not winning this game, if I'm not winning this weekend,
somebody else that I'm competing with is you know, when
you're talking what did we say five through but you
know something something like eight teams, Like one of those
teams is getting the job done this weekend if you
are not. And so that's got to be the thing

(38:55):
that drives you know, sort of every you have to
win every twenty minutes, every every everything, because the margins
are just so little and the NPI is just that close,
and things like getting a win that you were supposed
to win, you know, getting the win that you're supposed
to or dropping a game that you shouldn't have really honestly,
could come down to the difference between plague and the

(39:16):
postseason and not and when we come to March and
we're talking about like maybe losing especially now more of
the conferences have gone to single elimination as supposed to
to three game series. Like if you get knocked out
of your conference tournament early, like not only are you
not affecting your own NPI, but the teams that are
still in it have an opportunity to grow their NPI.
And so that's like the that's why all of this

(39:38):
matters because getting an easier opponent a lower ranked opponent
in your conference in the conference tournament depends on where
you finish in your conference, which is why, like we
could talk this ad infinitum, but all of those little
things go into deciding that sort of thing. So if
you're not placing high enough in your conference, then you're
getting a harder first round game and you're prone to
an upset, and then you're not earning those NPI points

(40:01):
and then suddenly you're not in the tournament when you
expected to be. And so that's like, you know, part
of it is stilly talking about like I'm not mad,
I'm just disappointed in December, but also like all of
that matters, And that's why I say that sort of thing,
because I do think we're going to come down to
some of these teams ruining some of the things that

(40:21):
happened in some of the games they let slip away
from themselves when it comes down to it.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, for instance, maybe Boston College is a little bit
closer to fifth then it is, then it is the
seventh right now. So if that gaming as Holy Cross
goes a different way.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
So, right, which is the difference between playing a first
round game in the NCAA tournament and also possibly having
to go play you know, one of the top seeds
in the second round and the round of eight. So
that's a massive difference, right.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Like, yeah, and that's something I think we're going to
keep tabs on this season as we get towards the end.
You know, we always kind of focus in on, well,
who's in is the one overall seed, and that that's important,
But I don't I don't know that it's as important
necessarily as who's in the four, five, and six, because
we've seen a six win a national championship. That was

(41:10):
Wisconsin two years ago in a six spot, having to
win a first round game then a game on the
road to get to the Frozen four. It's just that
that difference between the four to five and the six
just feels so massive. And that you're in the four, great,
you've got a home game. You've got to win one
game to get the Frozen four, and it's at home.
If you're in a five, great, you miss you miss

(41:33):
having to play the Thursday game. But you've got to
go on the road to win a game to get
to the Frozen four. If you're in the six, you've
got to win two games and the the second of
them is gonna be against one of the top three. Uh,
you know, depending on how it shakes out, it should
be six against three, but we never know for sure.

(41:55):
Oh that's gonna work out with the bracketing, but you're
gonna have to do that on the road, not to
say it can't be done because it's been done, but
just a change between and those could be so minute
numbers between the NPI, or maybe it's a comparison that
flips because of head to head ranking or common opponents
or something like that. But man, that feels when.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
You're talking March after a six and a half month
season and sort of fighting and clying for everything, and
the difference between being able to be home and play
one game versus having to travel and play two games
in the weekend and if you win your you know,
your prize is to go to play two harder games hopefully.

(42:39):
It's just it's just a massive difference being able to
go into the Frozen four without having that extra game
on you, without having to overcome you know, a much
higher seed. Like It's just it changes the path to
a possible championship like immensely.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
I don't think that anyone's happy about eleven team tournament,
but I do say that that this one little wrinkle
is add some intrigue to it anyway. I mean that
you wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
We have things to like about this ridiculous side.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
I'm not saying that this is the way it should
be Okay, we go on the numbers and it's forty four,
and so you take twenty five percent, that's eleven. I
get it. But we've been doing different things elsewhere before.
But this part of it does add some complexity to
it and adds a little bit of, like I said,

(43:31):
intrigue to where this ends up and not I do
appreciate that. I think that's something that I know I'll
keep an eye on here as we get in the
second half of the season, because this is going to
be a really interesting chase for those couple of spots.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
No, I agree, and it definitely is some innutition. It
does get into the nitty gritty, but there's only so
much we can talk about every head to head weekend,
and it's not always right teams playing each other. So
this is the sort of overarching We get into the
micro every week. But the macro thing to watch here
is this. And I mean, I'll give you that about

(44:08):
the eleven teen tournament, but there's probably nobody that hates
it more than I do. I just I think it's
the dumbest thing. If you have never read my column
about expansion to eleven, just google Nicole hawse Us eho
and you know, expansion to eleven because I have some
thoughts about malicious compliance and the NCAA's decision on what
numbers matter and don't when they're deciding this, But yeah,

(44:32):
it is what we have. I can't change that. So
I'm gonna, you know, pretend that I may. I made
my thoughts on that very well known when I wrote
that column. But yeah, I choosing to find the intrigue
and the joy in what we do have. Is this
part of it is finding you know, I'd like to

(44:53):
say it. I'd argue that we probably shouldn't. Like this
thing that we're talking about is kind of ludicrous that
like some teams get to play, but it's what we have,
So let's let's take the joy in it. I suppose.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
There you go. That's that's the spirit of the season.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
A very long you need I needed. I had to
work through some stuff there, you guys.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
All right, when we come back, we're gonna wrap up
the first half of the season, and so stay with
us on the podcast. Welcome back to the podcast. Todd
Moluski and Nicole Hasey with you to wrap things up
for the first half of the season. But before we
get there starting on Wednesday morning, US time, the Six

(45:36):
Nations tournaments starting in Finland, with a whole host of
college players, UH, the entire rosters of the US and Canada,
and then the other four teams, UH, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland
and are sending their full women's national teams for that tournament,

(45:59):
and so we're bringing in It's an interesting look there
for a lot of college players against the full teams
of some other countries. And I'm we talked a little
bit about this last week, but I think now that
we're getting into this, this seems really valuable for a
lot of players, not necessarily even in just their national

(46:23):
team pictures, but for what they can bring back from
an international experience when they come back and start playing
again for their college teams in a couple of weeks. Yeah,
there's a needed break for a lot of players that
have been going in for twelve weeks straight, feels like,
and not even continue accounting what they do in the

(46:45):
summers and everything like that for school starts. But this
is high level hockey I think helps anyone that's in
it when they come back to their college programs. And
so that's so that's one of the things I feel
like I'm looking forward to is that let's see some
benefit of this for a lot of players, because we're

(47:05):
seeing a lot of players in the US and Canada
teams that are gonna be coming back next the next
couple of weeks.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah, and there's at least a couple of NCAA players
and every other roster as well. The other thing is
that while some of the rosters that were announced to
begin with had p WHL players on it, it does
not look like p WHL players are going to take
place so take part. So one of the things that
means is that several teams have had called up other players,

(47:34):
so it's this mix of like, yes, it is their
senior national team, but like with an asterisk, and so
we're going to see some new players that way too,
which I think is really cool. I definitely saw a
couple of the standouts from last year's E eighteens get
added to a few of the rosters, and that'll be fun.
And also some of those players then would possibly consider
be NCAA eligible in the near future as well, So

(47:56):
there's some stuff for that, and I will have rosters
and some previous stuff over on Victory Press later tonight
and early tomorrow. I'll have it up before the game starts,
so definitely if you want more information check there. There's
also several players on each of these teams that are
committed to the NCAAA but have not started playing yet.
So yeah, sorry, all of that was an aside to

(48:17):
your question, which is what they can bring back. I
think one of the important things is just adaptability and
the ability to be put on different lines. And you
get comfort comfortable in your college career, right, and obviously
lines change a little bit, but like you get you
get very close as the team you play with consistently
for several months out of the year, usually all summer too,
And so the change to the international game just allows

(48:40):
them to learn about like maybe you're a top line
player right you your college, but when you go to
this in your national team, you're not. And so I
think everybody just needs to learn about that adaptability and
like what you can learn from like if you're used
to being the top line but now you're on the
third or fourth line, like what you can still bring
to the team. I think it's an important sort of
like ego check for some players, and like you know,

(49:01):
US national team players have talked about this about like,
you know, like Taylor Heizie, you know, got cut at
one point or got put on a third or fourth
line at one point, and like how that changed the
way she viewed the game and viewed herself and what
she can bring to the team that's not just like
her skills on the ice, And so I always think
about what these players can learn sort of about themselves

(49:22):
and off the ice and about being a teammate and
sort of the not obvious, the not like straightforward like
hockey skills part that that I think is really important.
And then the other is just that that high level
right like we see players for some of the other
national teams that play maybe in the AHA or play
in New Hah and so like going to play against

(49:42):
this top level talent that they don't necessarily get week
in and week out in their conference, that's really important.
And I think just overall this helps grow the level
of the game. I think the point of this tournament
to begin with with the four European teams was like
they looked at something like the rivalry series and how
the US and Canada were trying to get more time

(50:03):
on the ice and more time against each other, and
like this is I'm not saying this is exactly that,
but the idea was that, like none of the international
squads play each other very often. They don't the teams
that are not US and Canada never did centralization, and
so they get this chance now three or four times
a year with the Women's European Hockey Tour to play

(50:23):
against each other. And that's stone sharpening stone, like that's
playing the best. That's only going to make everybody better.
And so if you're all separate and playing in different
clubs and you only meet a couple of times a year,
there's just limits what you can do. And so I
think that's the important part here, is getting more ice time,
more high level ice time for all of the teams.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
So this is the first of two big events happening
in Finland in the next few weeks, the Six Nations
happening through the end of the week championship game on Sunday,
but then in a couple of weeks and Nicole will
be there for this the under eighteen tournament. It's going
also in Finland, and so some some news that we've

(51:05):
you've seen there Nicole in the last few days from
Canada's roster for the U eighteens as as it relates
to college.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
Yeah, Chloe Pernorano is on the Canada EU eighteen roster.
We talked about this maybe last week that she was
still age eligible, and so when Canada released their six
Nations roster and she wasn't on it, I hypothesized that
this might be the reason why. And yeah, I Canada's
like I said, we record on Tuesday, Canada release the
roster today and I just haven't had a chance to look.

(51:35):
I want to do some research. I wonder if there's
been a collegiate on a U eighteen team in the past.
It's definitely if it has happened, it's definitely pretty rare.
We already knew Chloe was. You know that she was
the MVP of the tournament last year at sixteen, so
she we already know. She's one of the top players,
if not the top player in her age bracket. And

(51:56):
so the fact that she is played with has played
with senior team in the rivalry series, UH, is playing
at Minnesota and now is getting to go back and
play at you eighteens UH definitely feels like a little
bit of a cheat code. For for Canada. Definitely a
bonus for them. But yeah, that's it's definitely an interesting quirk.
You know. She she graduated her high school early and

(52:16):
went to college early, so she is still age eligible
and she will be at the eighteens hinfant in three weeks.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
It's just a like you're saying, it's a really interesting
dynamic of you know, yeah, we haven't seen it. I
don't think we've you can look, but I don't think
we're seeing this before because of that specific age, right,
I mean, someone that accelerates and finishes high school in
three years to be able to compete starting.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
A lot of things had to happen for this to
get there, right her early in the like because you
have to it has to be you turn eighteen, the
in the year of the like in the season of
the tournament, like there's a whole so where her birthday
balls too is important in this and so yeah, all
of that has to come together for this to for
her have to been able to be eligible for this team.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Yeah, I'm I'll be interested to hear from you, and
I'm sure you'll get to talk to her in some
mixed zones of just how you know, how valuable that
experience can be just knowing that you're you're doing that
instead of playing against college players, which I understand you
want to play for your country, you want to be

(53:27):
there at a U eighteen tournament, but you've already kind
of taken a step up into playing and playing in
the w c h A, playing against some of the
best players in the world at that age that, you know,
eighteen to twenty two ish age.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
I guess she'll do great her choice.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Right, I think she'll do great. She'll be phenomenal in
that tournament again, But I don't know that it's necessarily
is you know, gonna for her personal like we're talking
about before with the Six Nations of being able to
get in the environment for a lot of college players,
I don't know that that necessarily is the same kind
of avenue for improvement.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Well, when she dominated last year, Yeah, she dominated the tournament.
She was the MVP. She kind of scored at will.
She's you know, several tiers better than she was at
that point. Listen, I Canada won bronze last year. They
lost in the semi finals to Checkia. I don't think

(54:29):
they were very happy with that outcome. I think that
they feel that they have a lot to prove, and
I think that that was the choice of putting Chloe
Permorando on this roster versus the six Nations roster. Now,
I can't think that many other nations would have done
it Differently, Like, I don't want to pick on Canada, Like,
if you have this opportunity, you take it. They don't

(54:53):
see themselves as a bronze middle nation. That's not what
they want, and so this is what you do to
make sure that that doesn't happen again. And again not
picking on them, because I don't think if any other
of the countries participating in the EU eighteens had this
option that they would, you know, all, they wouldn't have
done anything different. And so yeah, for her personal growth,

(55:14):
I'm not sure that it's the greatest choice, but I
you know, I do think it'll be very good for
the girls that are playing around her. I think she's
got a lot to teach them. I think she brings
you know, they have I think five players returning from
last year's team, and like I think about the twenty
eighteen Olympic gold medal that US won and how they

(55:36):
talked about how much they wanted to win that gold
for the girls who had come before them, from the
women that had come before them. So I think, you know,
sort of that rallying around these players and getting them
that gold medal is something that will do well for
this team. And I think the professionalism and the skill
level and the way that Chloe handles herself for all

(55:57):
things that her teammates will be able to learn from. Yeah,
it's a I definitely think it's a decision that's made
more for the team and the greater outcome than it
is for the player herself.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Well, let's wrap this up and bring it back to
the college game. And there's only five games on this
weekend's schedule as everyone kind of gets in the uh,
you know, final exam period and and wrap things up
and kind of goes as separate ways for a break
before we get things rolling again around New year. Uh,

(56:31):
Minnesota State have a series Robert Morrison and Long Island
have a non conference series, and there's a single game
in Hockeys between Merrimack and Maine. So a little bit
of a shortened schedule, but you know, there's some games
that that could be worth keep an eye on there too.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Definitely. You know, my apologies to these teams because I
have basically been talking about the first half being wrapped up.
We will definitely be paying attention to the games. I'll
be writing about them. But I think just mentally, it
was good for me to be like, oh done, So yeah,
like you said, five games on the schedule really really abbreviated,
and then particularly because of the days of the holidays

(57:08):
fall on, like we go immediately on the second, third
and fourth into the season after the new year. So yeah,
it's certainly been an interesting I feel like all I
know how to say about like every game, like, oh,
that should be interesting, because it is. It's fascinating to
see teams that we didn't expect. It's fascinating to see

(57:30):
the growth of players. You know, we talked about Britain
Sarla earlier, like there's just so many players that have
gotten on the radar and had breakout weekends. And that's
the fun of this. That's the part that's exciting about
following NCAA women's hockey as a whole and not just
an individual team. Every week I am delighted by some

(57:50):
new player. I get to watch some pretty delightful and
amazing goals and see teams do things they haven't done
in years and decades and before them, these players were born.
And that's to me, what like, that's what keeps bringing
me back. There's constantly stories to be told, and so
I think that's that's what's fun. So interesting is probably

(58:11):
like the least interesting word I could use about it.
But the first half was fascinating, Like there's just been
so much unexpected from that first series with UMD beating
beating Ohio State to now and the upsets we talked
about this last weekend. Every week brings something new and
so I kind of have no idea what to expect,
and that's that's the best part about it.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
That is fun. But let's let's kind of dig into
that a little bit before we finish. Who do you
see as as maybe having potential of surprising in the
second half compared to where they are now, and maybe
you want to look at that as where they are
in the pairwise, maybe where they are in their conference standings.
Who do you think can be a team that we

(58:52):
need to watch for championships in the second half, whether
it's you know, like I'm talking about a conference championship,
are being in the national picture.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
I think probably the best basically five hundred team in
the country is Yale. They have been very close and
on the verge. I think they're super capable of going
on a second half run. I think they're a team
I would not want to play in the postseason when
it comes down sort of to one and Doun's. I
think they're gonna keep learning from those close games that
they're losing. They just there's a lot of talent there.

(59:27):
There's a lot of is opposed to like being one player.
They're getting contributions from a lot of places and also
have p a Ducrichen goal, which is a pretty great
place to build your team out of. So it's hard
to say, like they're sitting nineteenth in pairwise right now,
like as we talked about and all the close teams
in NPI, it's a little hard to be like, yep,

(59:49):
I think they can make a huge jump. But that
being said, like they're they're in this conversation, you know,
like they're NPI number fifty four, Like that doesn't put
them but two points out of the top ten, you know,
And so they're a team that I just think if
they can I think the difference between their current record
and being like one of the top teams in the

(01:00:11):
ECAC is pretty small. It's pretty narrow. It's a couple
of different outcomes of games or even periods. And so
they're a team I think could, if not put themselves
in the national conversation, really mess up some other teams
conversations going forward. I mean, as we talked about saying
with Princeton, you know, I think Princeton is probably the flashier,

(01:00:33):
more obvious pick. But Yale, man, they are a lot
of fun to watch, got to be the one of
the best. I think they are like fifty three percent.
So we'll just say five hundred, five hundred teams right now,
But they have the opportunity to really mess up some
of those entire teams seasons, and I think just have

(01:00:54):
been pretty consistent. They're just they're losing those close games,
and so I think the adjustments would be small for
them to become a team worth paying attention to.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Yeah. I so I was pretty early this season, uh
intrigued by bu and we talked about that in one
of our first episodes of you Know It, there might
be something there. It didn't start great.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
No, but the Glimmers.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Right. Uh, they lost that game, the first game of
that series at Minnesota one. Nothing. I was a like, Okay, well,
if they get some goals scoring, maybe this is something
that can that can turn around. And they did get
some goals scoring here and there, but especially they were
able to really clamp down defensively. And that's for me,
this is the the disparity in my head is, Okay,

(01:01:43):
we're talking about a BU team that's in first place
in Hockey East but also is in tenth in the
pair wise, and so you're you're you're having a team
that's competing for a championship but also competing just to
get in it into a spot will.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Be an at large at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Yeah. So that that to me, is gonna be one
of those things that's really worth watching in the second
half because we've seen the good there. We've seen where
they can go on or run. We've seen where they can, uh,
you know, find a winning formula. I think they won
six or seven games in a row at one point. Uh,

(01:02:20):
but then we've also seen where they can lose eight
one to Princeton and and and so it's it's it's
there's a little bit of a you know, okay, which
which team are we going to get in the second half?

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
All the real real be please stand up right, and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
So you know we're gonna get right out of the
gate there at holy Cross and to at Vermont UH
to start the second half of the season. And those
are games that they.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Need to win.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
They need to win, right, absolutely, they need to go
out there and you know, maybe you don't win both
games at Vermont and regulation, but you've got to win
that series. I mean that those are the things you
have to do when you're on the road to win
a conference championship. And and so we're gonna find out
pretty quick, you know, whether BU is in that conversation

(01:03:05):
or whether they're kind of going to start to fade
into the you know, second, third, fourth in Hockey East
and then really make it hard on themselves to be
in an at large spot in the pair wise when
it comes down to it, and whether they're going to
need to win a conference championship to get in because
as there a call and correct me if I'm wrong,
but Hockey East only had one team in the tournament

(01:03:27):
last season or was the conference champion? Correct? And I
know that those teams want to fix that this year.
They they do not want to be a one bid league,
and so b you is a team that has a
chance to do it. Boston College is in a pretty
good spot right now. But then you're talking about Northeastern

(01:03:48):
has has has made it difficult on themselves, Yukon has
has made it difficult on themselves. So the best chances
right now are BC and BU for hot for Hockey East.
So so count me in on washing the Terriers when
the second half starts. I feel like that's gonna be
a an interesting viewing to see where they pick up

(01:04:13):
when we get into January.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
I think probably the Hockey East is like the most intriguing,
the most nailbiting. I mean, we've talked about, you know,
the four teams atop the WCHA, but like we're pretty
sure they're in. But if you look at b at
ten and the pairwise Northeastern at thirteen, Connecticut at fifteen,
and if you look at Hockey East innings, Boston University

(01:04:36):
has a game in hand, but the top four teams
are within four points of each other.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Heavy and then it drops off after the top four
teams because Northeaster an and fourth of twenty six points
New Hampshire and fifth at sixteen. So it's really the
top teams are winning, the bottom teams are not, and
so that's it's it's you know, you're seeing that separation
develop already, right, so.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
The fight is both for and at large bit and
to not have to worry about that when the conference tournament,
and as we said, the standings, the final steandings in
the conference are what determines who you play in the
bracket that you end up in in your conference tournament.
So yeah, in terms of like intrigue and like will
they won't they, I think Hockey East is by far

(01:05:19):
the one that's worth watching that way, just those four
points separating the top four teams and all all but
one of them not you know, not technical well I
guess be you at ten as. Yeah, they're all they're
basically all bubble teams at this point, and so they
all they they can't all do it right because they're
going to be playing each other. But yeah, somebody has
to be Like I I feel like that's a lot

(01:05:43):
in Hockey's like somebody needs to take that, Like the
opportunity is there, like please see it, trusting yourself, have
the confidence and like frickin' take it because it's there,
it's sitting. I feel like it's it's like the puck
sitting out there in the crease and nobody going and
putting it in the net. And so yeah, just in
terms of like a massive difference between like I'm gonna

(01:06:03):
win the conference and lay in the NCAA tournament and
I'm going to be done and sitting at home over
four points in your conference standings.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
I don't know if nobody's going for it, but it's
like they're all running into each other going for the
loose puck in the crease. That's kind of what it
seems like to me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Yeah, well, yes, it's maybe an unfair What I mean
is that, like it just feels like I want someone
to see that opportunity and just be like darted, I'm
taking it and like go on a run and win
the games you're supposed to win and not drop those
points and like that. That feels like every year there's
a team that has that opportunity in Hockey East and
then like doesn't take it, doesn't really grasp it. And

(01:06:42):
so that's that's what I'm looking for. It's for someone
to like really buy in on themselves, see the opportunity
in front of them and say, e fit like this
is ours, you know, so wow in terms of intrigue
and sort of like the haves and the have nots,
and like the difference between winning conference and staying at
home is so razor small in Hockey East and so that, yeah,

(01:07:06):
you make a good point of that being probably the
most interesting thing to watch long term in the second half.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Well, there's a lot of things that are gonna be
fun to watch in the second for sure. But we're
also looking forward to a little bit of a break
here as we kind of wind down for the holidays
and enjoy some time with family, and we hope that
you all have a wonderful next few weeks. We're going
to be back with a I don't know if it

(01:07:36):
we'll call it a primer on the U eighteen tournament,
but a little bit of a look at that before
Nicole takes off for that tournament. So be on the
lookout for that the you know, around the New year,
right around New Year's Day. Don't have an official time
to set. Yeah, yeah, So I want to say to
you and Nicole, to you and your family, happy holidays.

(01:07:58):
It's great doing this with you, and this is some
of the best parts of my week is is spending
this time talking with you about about women's college hockey
and and doing you know, seeing that the joy that
you put into this is really what feeds me in
one well thankful.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
That's do not make me cry out our podcasts, all right,
I will not do that. But no, that's very sweet
and I appreciate it, and I agree. It's it's so
nice to talk to somebody else. Sometimes I feel I
feel like I'm gonna like color somebody at a party
and then be like, oh my god, get me out
of here. Uh. So it's nice. It's nice to yeah,
be able to share like We've both got a lot
of time and effort into this and so I love

(01:08:37):
getting to talk about it and share the stories and
talk about the players that don't get to get talked about.
And uh, just a reminder to people that they I mean,
we start right back in on on January second, you
Wisconsin and Ohio State play the first game of their
season before they go play at Wrigley Field that weekend.
So uh, keep your take your little break, but don't

(01:08:58):
forget that we're coming right back at it with some thing.
These are These are not throw awagians. Yeah, come it
to that, but yeah. Thank you so much for the
kind kind words. Happy holidays, tune your family, happeny holidays
to our listeners, Thank you so much for being with us.
We really appreciate you guys. We wouldn't you know, have
a podcast without you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Absolutely and uh again. We'll be back right around the
new year, so enjoy the break. Thanks for listening. We'll
catch you soon.