First-half surprises, question time and reflecting on the Rivalry Series

On this episode of the PodKaz, USCHO.com’s weekly look at NCAA women’s hockey, hosts Nicole Haase and Todd Milewski wrap up the first half of the 2025-26 season with a look at some of the teams that surprised, both positively and negatively.

Northeastern and Princeton are both in the top 10 of the USCHO.com rankings after being lower in the preseason poll. Colgate, however, started at No. 5 and is heading to Christmas at No. 14.

Then we check out the conference leaders compared to preseason predictions, and the biggest change is in NEWHA.

We finish the first segment with a look at players to watch in the second half of the season for the Patty Kazmaier Award chase.

The mailbag comes out for the second segment. Nicole and Todd respond to four listener questions.
And we wrap things up with a look back at the final two games of the Rivalry Series, where the U.S. wrapped up a four-game sweep of Canada.

The PodKaz is a production of USCHO.com. Have a question for us? Reach out to Nicole (@NicoleHaase) or Todd (@ToddMilewski) on social media or email [e-mail].

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Uscho dot Com. Hi and welcome. This is the podcast.
I'm Todd Malusky here with the Cole Hosey from us
cho dot Com. We're here to wrap up the first
half of the twenty twenty five twenty six NCAA women's
hockey season. Will have a few questions from our mail bag.

(00:24):
Later on the show, we will look back at the
rivalry series. But Nicole, our first real topic today is,
you know, just taking a glance at maybe some of
the things that have changed since everything got going back
in September. And I did a little look at the
the preseason USHO dot Com rankings versus the last us

(00:47):
cho dot Com rankings before the holidays, and there's a
few teams that have made some pretty big jumps and
a few teams that have made some well pretty big
falls compared to they're expected to be in the preseason.
And I mean, we know that has to do a
lot with the preseason. One is more about how they

(01:08):
finished the season previous for sure, but you're looking at
teams like Saint Lawrence ninth in the preseason, not ranked
right now, Boston University eleventh in the preseason, not ranked.
On the other side, you look at a team like
Princeton ranked fourteenth in the preseason now number nine, Northeastern
fifteenth now number seven. There's a lot of changes we've seen.

(01:31):
I wonder if there's you know, a couple that maybe
have stood out to you that have been especially big
as we've gone through this first half.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
I think probably the two you just mentioned are the
biggest ones. Right like we were, we were wondering about
Northeastern to start, and they really you know, they took
a little while to put things together, but have just
come on so strong in the last like what six
to eight weeks. And I think too, I mean part
of me feels like the preseason and versus the Curtent

(02:00):
Pole just shows how much we're all b sing our
way through the preseason poll and we've just been lucky
before that, like parody is like not that is good
that you know, like the same fifteen teams have been
the ones that are in it, and like, I think
it's great for the sport. I think it's has a
ton about how many teams we've seen move in and

(02:21):
out of those bottom five spots. I think probably man
Cato is a good surprise. I think Saint Thomas is
a good surprise. Who else have we seen in there?
We see like the Browns and Darkness get their chance
and show off. So yeah, I guess there's maybe not
one huge story. I think probably the surprises arebu and

(02:42):
maybe Saint Lawrence. But I didn't I thought Saint Lawrence.
I'm pretty sure when I wrote the preview, I said, like, hey, uh,
they lost a lot to graduation, and so I thought
they were probably a little over estimated going in, which
is no offense to them, just they had a lot
to replace, a lot of like sort of program defining
players that had taken them to the NCAAs and things

(03:04):
like that, and that's just really difficult to come back
from when you lose those, not just the point scoring,
but the leadership and all that sort of stuff. I
think they're just in a little bit of a rebuilding era. Yeah,
I do you have anyone that really sticks out to you?

Speaker 1 (03:20):
I was just looking from a numbers perspective. The biggest
one to slide has been Colgate number five in the preseason,
coming off of a really good season, now barely hanging
on to a top fifteen spot at all at number fourteen.
This it's a group that we thought, you know, maybe

(03:41):
at points in the first half, was like, Okay, well
there's a win they can build on, but just hasn't happened.
It hasn't been able to have enough connected wins to
make a difference. And I don't think they're you know,
just going back to the ECAC standings, they're not in
a terrible spot there, fifth place, sixteen and a half

(04:02):
points through ten games. So there's still in that mix
to be a top four team. It's just that it's
going to be a lot more of a challenge for
them to you know, they're going to have to win
a conference playoff championship to get a NCAA tournament's seed

(04:24):
this year. Spot this year at nine, ten and one
overall going into the second half, Yeah, so that's the
one that kind of stood out to me. On the
other on the negative side, on the positive side, you
mentioned that Minnesota State being a team that was not
ranked no votes in the preseason poll and now up
to number twelve after having a a couple of well

(04:47):
one real possibly season defining weekend against Minnesota gaining sweep there,
I think for the first time since two thousand and six,
and so that was a statement to me that, well, Okay,
something's building at Minnesota State, right, and I think.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
The important part is that they could have sort of
followed it up with consistent results. You know, a lot
of the teams I mentioned, Saint Cloud, Saint Thomas Brown,
we've seen a bunch of player teams move in and
out of those bottom rings, But like Minnesota State, in
the last couple of weeks, I've really found themselves staying there.
They're still consistently. It wasn't it wasn't to Fluke, it
wasn't to one off. I've been impressed with their ability

(05:25):
to strings and stuff together. Like, obviously they're not perfect,
Obviously they're they're losing some games, but like that series
Saint Cloud State was actually one of the more surprisingly
fun weekends the series that I was maybe not necessarily expecting.
And the thing I was gonna say about Colgiate too,
just going back for a second, was I think we
all underestimated the like change of goaltending and like loss

(05:47):
of defense, or maybe that they were so good on
offense that like we didn't notice that they didn't have
a super strong defense before this. But it's not that
they're not scoring goals It's not that they don't have
talented offense. Like I think everybody's like, oh, they lost
Calti and that was the end of it. But to me,
like that's not the story, because they're like, they still
have really good scoring talent and those players are still

(06:10):
scoring goals. But it's sort of the overall like ability
to not hold on to the puck as long and
maybe like a lack of depth that's different. That I
think is really sort of the surprising part, because I
think if you said, like, oh, you know, Colgate graduated
some talent and now they're not scoring as many goals,
I'd have been like, Okay, that makes sense to me.

(06:30):
But if I remember correctly, like their stats aren't super
different on the offensive side from last season. You know,
they still have these like top tier players up front.
They're just it's the it's it's sort of the other
end of the ice, or maybe the more complete game
where things have changed. I think that, to me is
maybe the surprising part, as opposed to just the overall record.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
I think maybe if there's a conference I'm surprised by,
it's actually it's Hockey East. We were starting in season,
we were talking about, well, is this a one bid
league again? And now we've got Yukon in the number
five spot in the NPI, not far behind Penn State,
so well, actually there is a gap there now they
look at it so that that's, you know, looks like

(07:19):
a pretty good spot for Yukon. You've got Northeastern at
six in the NPI. So these are two teams that
have really established themselves in the in the non conference
portion of their schedules and then having some success in
certainly on Northeastern side in conference place. So far, that
is looking like something that could shake up what we

(07:42):
saw balance wise of the NCAA tournament last season. In
terms of conference it could be having two Hockey East
teams or possibly more if you get another team winning
that conference tournament, that could shake things up in March.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I think it's it's a little twofold
which is that I think that comes with sort of
the inviting the ECAC and that shake up in a
way that we weren't expecting. Just really open the door.
And the Hockey East teams have taken that opportunity, which
is something within their conference. I've sometimes you know, sort
of scolded them about like not there's there's a chance

(08:16):
there and you don't take it. But overall as a conference,
I mean, looking at NPI with Holy Cross at thirteen,
I'm just like, Okay, Hockey East, Like they definitely have
done more than we give them credit for, Like we
need to own that. But yeah, I think they're it's
a twofold of being maybe not disappointed, but just surprised
at sort of what has happened in the ECAC and

(08:37):
how that has affected the ability of other teams to
be higher up in the NPI, and then those teams
taking advantage in winning the games they need to win
and gain all the points they need to be in
that conversation, but yeah, you're right, we were talking about
that as a one bid league like kind of as
a given right. And so I think part of that
is the resurgence that goes back to Northeastern, right, like

(08:59):
they weren't in the conversation with for us to start.
And so yeah, there's a lot of just really interesting
dynamics happening.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, Yukon was picked was number twelve in the first
poll of the season. They're now up to six overall. There, Yeah,
there's I'm one of my things I'm really looking forward
to the second half is to see who comes out
of this break and uses it to their benefit. I mean,
the mid season break feels overly long's it's more than

(09:33):
a month for a lot of teams that you're not playing,
and I when you're also going to have Olympic absences
starting in the end of January, those games when you
come back in the first part of January, to me
take on a real a higher level of importance in

(09:54):
terms of getting things done when you have those players.
And we'll talk in a while about who all is
going to be missing from teams or which teams are
going to have players missing from them for the Olympics,
But that to me just feels like something to watch
in the second half of who can get right back
up the speed and not have that, you know, a

(10:15):
couple of weeks to get it going again before your
things might get turned over for you.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, it's it's who can, like you said, coming out
of like we see teams that have not been so
great just out of a bye week, so you know,
this compounds that. And then also who used that time
the best, who was able to reset maybe have some
players come back from injury. Just there's a lot of
teams that could really use as sort of like Okay,

(10:40):
that first half happened, but like that doesn't going to
define us, and so the teams that can really take
that opportunity and move forward. What I think is interesting
is the way you think that it's long, and it is,
don't get me wrong, just overall it's long, but the
way the holidays fall, like we're back on the ice
January second, which is like sometimes you would get New
Year's games as like a non conference type some of

(11:04):
that stuff, some little tournamenty type things, but we're I
mean not everybody, but we're kind of jumping right back
into conference play immediately following the holidays. So that to
me is just interesting with the way the holidays fall
in the week this year. So yeah, it is between
it and it makes sense. They're student athletes, like they
need exams and then it's the holidays. Like this is
not new we've done, we do this every year, but

(11:24):
it is a really long break, and I think it
is up to the coaching staffs really in the leadership
groups to make sure that their teams use that time
wisely and are prepared to come out of it as well.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, I want to take a real quick spin around
the league's here and compare these standings to what was
the predicted standings by the coaches before the season. In
Atlantic Hockey. Penn State is running away with that again
as predicted, So not a lot of difference between what
we saw back in some timber and what we're seeing
now ECAC. There's Princeton up at the top and they

(12:04):
were picked the finish sixth, So kudos to the Tigers
for putting together a really good first half in conference,
you know, and overall eleven to four overall, I believe
it's eight and two in conference. So there's there's another
team that really has has been in a a a

(12:25):
good frame of mind, I guess in terms of how
they're going to get things done this season.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, I mean, I think McKenzie Alexander getting up to
speed and being you know, a top tier player within
the first month or so of play is just absolutely
game changer for them. I Mean, we looked at their graduation,
we looked at Sarah Paul leaving and everybody went, well, uh,
it's gonna be a little rough for Princeton, and I
just like, kudos to them for not like accepting the

(12:50):
premise and just really going out and sort of playing
their game. I feel like they really did a good
job of sort of pushing out the noise and just
just going out and playing type of hockey.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
In Hockey East, we mentioned Northeastern leading their eleven and
one in conference play, they were predicted to finish third.
Yukon was picked for first, and by points percentage, Yukon
is still second. There's a different number of games having
been played there in Hockey East, so Ukon now in
fourth in by just sheer points, still in second by

(13:26):
points percentage. New ha. That's where things have kind of
just flipped all over the place compared to the preseason.
The preseason projected champion with Sacred Heart, which is currently
seventh out of eight teams in the standings. The team
that is in first place, Saint Anselm, was picked four fifth.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
So beautiful chaotic conference.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
No idea, Yeah right, we had no idea and we
maybe still have no idea. And I wonder if that
has a lot to do with uh, you know a
lot of changes in personnel, you know, players coming in
going out. Uh, if we really don't get a great

(14:12):
read on a lot of these scenes, this whole right
before the season in terms of rosters, and so even
the coaches are in the league probably are a little
like it.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Makes me feel better than the coaches got it right,
like if they don't know right, And just as in general,
like as the person who writes previews and thus is
searching out rosters the second they're posted. New Hot generally
is the last group of schools to post their rosters,
so even less time to figure that out. Usually I've
got my previews done and I'm just waiting for one
or two New Hot teams. So yeah, generally feeling like

(14:44):
I don't have any idea what's happening there. They're also
pulling usually some players maybe from U Sports, maybe from
D three, so players that were just less familiar with
overall as well. But yeah, I mean, like my beautiful
chaotic ley by the league, I love it so much.
They you know, if they wasn't over a few years
ago with that postseason where Franklin Pierce won all those
like double overtime games, and I've just been all in

(15:05):
after that. So I think it's you know, like obviously
there's a huge gap in between the you know, where
New High is and some of the other conferences. That
being said, I think it's a great thing for the
game that it is completely up for grabs that on
any given weekend, you know the team. Like the idea
that the team that was picked to place to take

(15:27):
fifth is was like essentially running away with the conference
for a while, is like absolutely bonkers, Like tell me,
tell me where else we were gonna see the end
the team that was picked first is and you know,
second to last. So love that I have no idea
what's happening. Makes it fun to watch.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Absolutely, you are correct there the wha. I didn't mention
this in terms of the poll, but the preseason Bowl
had Wisconsin won, Ohiose State two, Minnesota three, and well
that's still the way it is in the preseason Bowl
and Wisconsin Minnesota House State predicted to be in the
top three of the WCCHA. Well that's where we're at again,

(16:06):
So not a lot of surprises there. It is. We
talked about Minnesota State. They're the team that has climbed
up to the top of the second tier. As we've
talked about in the past, there's really tough to crack
that top four of the Wisconsin, Ohio State, Minnesota, Minnesota Duluth.
But there's Minnesota State giving it a go. So seven

(16:28):
points behind Minnesota Duluth for fourth place, but a lot
more than I think a lot of people thought was
going to be there.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah. Absolutely, I like you said, it's nearly impossible to correct.
I think what's important for this conversation or for Minnesota
State is what they can build from this in terms
of recruiting and bringing in players and what they can
build from this for future years. It's not to say
that I also think that they're going to be really
continue to be a really good team. And I think
that first round wha matchup likely U M D is

(17:01):
going to be fascinating for a multi game series. But
I just think it's stuff like this, where this consistent,
where they're they're making you know, highlight reels and people
are talking about them. That's the sort of thing that
helps them pull in recruits and get you know, continue
to build the talent roster that they have. And and
then also I think just bringing in some of the

(17:22):
you know, they've they've found a couple of diamonds in
the rough and that you know, that makes the difference
and you know, making those connections and bringing in players
uh internationally and things like that. I just think they've
done a really good job. And you know, our favorite name,
Mercury Bischoff continues to have this spectacular season, and so yeah,
I think it's it's positive now and I think I

(17:44):
find a U M D. I've certainly not comfortable with
the idea of a three game series against them, and
when it gets to playoff time and then yeah, I
think it's it's also you have to have an eye
towards building and what you can show off to convince
people that that they should take a chance on playing
at MEK.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Know, right before we wrap up our first segment here,
let's talk a little bit about some of the players
that have stood out and that people should know. As
we're getting into Awards season toward the end of the
second half, and we've discussed this before, this is gonna
be a different kind of second half of the season

(18:22):
because a lot of these players are going to be
gone for five weeks, four weeks. I forget exactly the
number of weekends is and or I guess how many
games are involved for each of those teams, but a
significant amount of time so when you're looking at pure stats,
this year is not going to compare with previous seasons.

(18:43):
That being said, there are a lot of players that
have already put really a pretty good season out there.
Just on the basis of the first half alone, who
do you think, I guess if someone's asking you wish
players we need to look got in the second half?
Who is uh you know, given that context of some

(19:07):
of them may be gone, But who are we looking at?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
I mean, I think the obvious to start is is
you know, it's KK Harvey, It's Abbie Murphy. I think
Hilda Sunson's got to be the most interesting rookie we've
seen maybe since Daryl Watts. You know, she's fit overall
in scoring twelve goals twenty one assists, but she's someone
that will also be gone for the Olympics. So to me,

(19:30):
it's looking at like who can make an impact when
you know things are scrambled a little more so someone
like caitlinn Lamars, who's just had that ridiculous She's got
twenty two goals so far this season, just had this
amazing breakout. I think she's got to be in the conversation.
I think Lily Shannon at Northeastern has to be in
the conversation. Yeah, I think it'll be very interesting. Full disclosure,

(19:56):
I'm on the Patty Committee this year. I have We've
had no discussions or anything like that, so none of
this is inside information. But I do think having done
this a few times, I do think the conversation will
be interestingly different this year as we look to decide
how much it matters how much time a player missed
and if that's going to be held against anybody consciously

(20:17):
or subconsciously. Things like that I think are going to
play a huge impact. And that The other thing is
that that like the Patty Committee gets the top ten
handed to them and then they choose from there. Like
the committee doesn't choose, doesn't narrow it down. It comes
from voting and things like from coaches and how many
times someone makes you know is listed and then they
narrow it down from there. And so it's not just

(20:40):
you know, the people on the committee making that, but
how coaches are viewing that too. And often you find
kind of there's usually one or two players that may
seem like an outlier in terms of like not necessarily
top ten in points or top fifteen in points, but
that the coaches have been really impressed with when they
play against. To me, that's always one of the interesting
things to see who comes out of that. Yeah, I mean,

(21:00):
you know, Wisconsin's had a couple of huge locating Ohio
state has had a couple like you've got some You
can't just go wipe your points, right because you know
Wisconsin's winning in Nashville by massive numbers. You can't put
too much credence into some of that. And if you
look at the top fifteen and scoring now, it's like
every the top three lines of Wisconsin are on there,

(21:21):
So like, where do you make room for someone like
Jessica McKinnon at Robert Morris who is currently ninth in
points with thirteen goals, fifteen assists twenty eight points. Like
that's the stuff I think we need to look at,
and I think it's interesting. I'm almost sad that hilde
Spenson is running away with Rookie of the Year because
I think this is one of the better years for rookies.

(21:42):
We've got Sarah Manis, We've got who else was I looking?
Oh ive A Thomas at BC. It's Yeah, it's just
been a really interesting year for rookies making strikers of
Blackie in Northeastern. I think I said that Kingsy Alexander
earlier as a rookie, and she's a soft board. I apologize,
but yeah, just some really interesting players making huge impacts
and for teams that aren't necessarily the ones that we're

(22:05):
all always talking about, and so I think that it's
probably it held us to lose. But again, you know,
she will be missing that month, and so it'll be
interesting to see what some of the other players that'll
still be here can do. But I mean, I do think,
I mean, kk is a generational talent. She was a
top three Patty Kats finalist last year. She's the only

(22:27):
one averaging more than two points a game. It's hard
to argue with those numbers right now.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, and she's on I think a seventeen game points
scoring streak, which is I believe the same number as
Josephine bouvang is at for Minnesota. She's also someone that
is kind of in that mix. But yeah, five game winnings,
yeah for a defender, especially too, We're we're really in

(22:56):
a different category. Here is what it feels like to me,
And I just don't know what the Olympic break is
going to mean. I hate to keep coming back to that,
but it just really feels like we're talking about a
college hockey award, But is there gonna be anyone that's
going to fill in that? Really, it's gonna be a

(23:17):
vacuum of talent for that month in college.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
So yeah, and then interestingly, from like.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
It's gonna be fascinating from.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
A devil's advocate, like if with Wisconsin missing six players,
so like their top four wards and their top defenders,
if someone like Cassie Hall, who's currently tenth in the
country with twenty seven points, she just absolutely goes off
because she's suddenly on the top line and doing all
those things, Like how much credence do you give that
knowing that that's happening because the like does that comment

(23:50):
against KK? You know what I'm saying, Like just a
devil's advocate bit of like players that have a really
good time when their teammates aren't there any core will
be really interesting. Yeah, I you know, I just sort
of picked try the hat, but I think there's gonna
be some interesting you know, there's been some really stand
up players at Penn State too, and so with Tessa gone,

(24:10):
does that like give Grace Outwater like a chance to
pick up even more points. You know, she's top twenty
right now in points, and so yeah, I mean, I
think the big thing for me for KK is not
just the total number of points, but that like she's
also kind of eleven goals, which is up there among leaders.
Like It's not like you look at Leila Edwards's twelfth
in scoring, She's only got six goals, right Like, as

(24:31):
a as a defender, you're going to have fewer goals.
But Kyk is still scoring. And I think the game
winning goals is a big one for me, and so
is the power play goals, just because it's filtering out
a little bit of that everybody scored a bazillion points
when they ran up the score a bunch against some
of these teams, do you know what I'm saying? Right,
I think too that only eight penalty minutes is a

(24:52):
big one as well, just when't looking at some of
these other pedal are still minute totals for some of.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
The horses other players, which is actually a lot for
her compared to previous seasons. But right, okay, that's our
look back at the first half. When we come back,
we will get to your questions and then we'll talk
about the rivalry series. Stay with us on the podcast.

(25:21):
Welcome back to the podcast. Todd Nicole here to talk
about some of your questions. We do appreciate you sending
them in the email address to do that is in
our show notes, So any questions you have, feel free
to send them along and we'll try to get them.
Our first question today from Adam Slaven's over social media.

(25:42):
He sent a question saying, any rumblings of schools considering
elevating their programs to D one, which is a kind
of evergreen topic around women's hockey. We've had a forty
fifth team join in Delaware this year, but there's always
a you know, the whispers of well, who's next or

(26:03):
who might be considering it? What do you I guess,
what do you hear or what do you want to
hear on that front?

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Well, the evergree answer is Michigan, or maybe not the
state of Michigan at this point. I wouldn't wish the
Michigan Athletic Department on anybody, but the state of Michigan
needs some women talking. And then I guess I would
like to see not I don't. I do not mean

(26:32):
this derogatorily to anybody. I just want to be clear
on that. But I would like to see some more
teams from programs that we know can can sort of
elevate and really push, like when we saw from Penn
State or even from like maybe Syracuse or stuff. I
am super thankful that we have the new Hog programs
that we have Delaware, that we continue to seek growth

(26:55):
and I think, you know, being a state school with Delaware,
that's important, but just from some bigger programs that are
going to have the backing and the ability to provide
what is necessary. And I just I just want to
be really clear that, like I'm happy for all programs,
but like if if you're asking me for a wish list,
I think we you know, for the growth of the game,

(27:15):
like as we sort of talked about, and I think
we have another question about some of the blowouts from
the top tier versus you know, team scenes towards the
bottom of the overall and PI and standings. I would
like to see, you know, a program or a new
program or support from someone that can really put the
the the money and the backing and really put a

(27:39):
program that we're going to see elevate and be be
impactful and playing for you know, playing in the national
tournament like Penn stated, within what like tennis years or so.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Sure. I asked this question to our friends at College Inc.
Who who assist programs that are interested in finding out
how it might work to to launch a Division I
women's hockey program or just or men's hockey and women's hockey.

(28:12):
Usually it's it's both, And they said that there's been
three studies this year in addition to previously having Michigan
involved on the women's side. They typically include both men's
hockey and women's hockey, like I said, but one of
them was focused on women's hockey specifically. They can't give

(28:35):
any names because of confidentiality reasons in those feasibility studies.
But there are also they said, three more schools that
are interested or have expressed interest in doing those one
of those feasibility studies. So to me, that that at
least tells you that there's people haven't shut it off.

(28:56):
I mean, this is a really difficult time for college
where everyone's trying to figure out where where they are
in relation to all of the you know, the revenue
sharing and and just you know, conference changes in some levels,
but hockey is kind of in a different, different layer

(29:16):
of things, and I do wonder how that's gonna impact
just the the interest level of you know, even taking
a look at this. How much does it cost, what
is it going to mean? What's what's our opportunities for success?
And that's that's something that I think we'll talk about

(29:37):
in a minute here when we talk about New high
Like you just mentioned, there's another question we have. But
the reason to launch a women's hockey program isn't always
to try and win a national champnel for it's there's
I mean, there's some schools that could could do that,
and we're talking like Penn State. At at some point

(29:58):
we'll be in that conversation, and that maybe this year,
but there's a lot more reasons to to have that
opportunity and to join what might be a you know,
a regional kind of environment for hockey. If that's big
in your area, Michigan. Uh, there's reason, color I have right,

(30:22):
there's reason to have that on your campus.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, maybe I should have said earlier to maybe someone else,
lest maybe now that the Big Ten has thirty seven
schools we should talk about elevating a club career like
Oregon or or any of those schools. Yeah, I agree,
I definitely that was a if I, you know, had
to personally pick, I would love that. But I think
all all programs are good programs. I think all opportunities

(30:47):
for more girls to be playing and to look forward
to playing in college and have an opportunity. And again
we've seen players that weren't necessarily stand out in college
that have gone on now to be able to be
super successful the PWHL, and so you know, there's a
whole avenue there and more girls getting to become women
who play hockey collegiately. Nothing but good things comes from that.

(31:11):
I'm I like even at some point, you know, earlier
in my career, I was not understanding like maybe the
point or like should like should we be doing this?
And I have completely flipped and I think just the
idea when you know you got those numbers on the
feasibility study, I mean, we're not that far removed from
shuttering programs, and so I think there was a worry

(31:31):
for a few years that like hockey programs were going
to be declining, and I think once you know one
or two programs does it. Then I think that gives
athletic departments an idea that they should maybe also look
at that. So I'm just happy that we're we're still
talking about adding women's hockey, and I think, yeah, I
I we have seen nothing but growth youth numbers of

(31:55):
girls playing hockey in the US. In North America, we
see nothing but improvement when girls and women come over
from Europe and play here and the impact that's had
on the international game. Like I you know, we could
be bigger advocates for in SIA hockey and what it
can do for girls and women and so yeah, just
the continued growth is great and I think I just

(32:16):
think it's really cool and good. Like a lot of
this comes down to logistics of like they want to
elevate their men's football and then suddenly they have to
have more women's programs, and like it's a lot easier
to add something like track or lacrosse that doesn't like
require a rink, right like that, like you just need
a patch of grass and some locker rooms. I mean,
I'm oversimplifying it, but the point of the feasibility study

(32:39):
is to see, like if the university can do this,
like where someone with Delaware had a rink, had a
nice rink on campus and so like they had to
add some programs because of football, and it was really
cool that they went and said, you know, women's hockey
is one of the ones we want to add. Like
that makes so much sense for us, and so I
think it's really important for that to be a thing
that athletic departments and athletic directors are things.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, all right, thank you Adam for that question. Or
next question is from Bill Romine, who asks at this
time what advantage does the New HA and other small
school conferences have by playing in Division one hockey. He mentions,
you know, there are disadvantages in terms of recruiting and budgets.
We saw. He pointed out the Smashville showcase where Stonehill

(33:24):
lost to Wisconsin seventeen to two. He'd mentioned that as
being unfortunate. My first thought on this is that, well,
if they want to play hockey as at Division two school,
they have to play with the Division one division tool group.
They can't play down in D three. So if they
want to be part of it, this is it. But

(33:44):
I wonder what your I guess your feelings are just
in general of you know, the the place in NCAA
women's hockey for schools that are in the New HA
because we've seen that, like they have their playing for
their championship, and winning a conference championship is no small feed.

(34:04):
So if you're in a conference you can win a championship.
That's something.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Oh I'm not sure I have fully smart thoughts on this,
And if a player or a former player from newh
wants to talk to us about this, we'd love to
hear from you, because I do think it's really difficult
to sort of understand or justify some of that stuff.
I do think that Wisconsin womping on New haw and
the Predator's practice facility is not a good use of

(34:33):
anybody's time. I think, you know, higher ranked teams playing
teams towards the bottom of the NPI is not overall
necessarily a bad thing. I think it's good to know,
like what the standard is, like what you can be
aspiring to what. I think it's good for teams to
go to like Minnesota and Wisconsin and see purpose built
women's hockey facilities and like what, you know, what the

(34:57):
best of the best looks like. I think that's the
sort of important for coaches and student athletes and even
administrators to all see.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
But yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Sometimes I feel like that's it's just so like how disheartening,
how just awful for a program to you know, you
look at someone like Saint Michael who is struggling to
put together one or two wins a year, is not
clearly not getting institutional support like things like that. It's
just like, I want the sport to grow. I want
us to continue to have new programs, but I want

(35:26):
those programs to get the support from their schools and
their athletic departments that they should be getting to. You know,
you think back a few years, like when the Union
Men more than a few years at this point, but
when the Union Men won the national Championship game at
that point was when the Union women were i think
had their undefeated season right around that is, or I'm
sorry on well, no win season, And it was just

(35:47):
like such a clear showing of the difference in support
and ability and like what you know, the men's program
could recruit and who they could bring in and what
the Union women were capable of doing, and that isn't
happening in isolation. That's happening because of resources and support
and all those sorts of things. And so yeah, I

(36:10):
would you know, I would like everybody to have the opportunities.
And at last I said, I think, you know, if
if you love hockey and you want to play collegiately
and you can get scholarship and you can go play,
I want as many girls to be able to do
that as want to do it. But sometimes I don't, like,
do you have I don't know. I don't not sure
I understand the purpose of something like that Smashville game.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
I think that the word unfortunate that Bill us there
is right, and we've seen a few of those games.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah, we're certainly using that as the example, the recency
bias example, but there's four of them.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, exactly. I I do know that events like that
have a purpose for sure, takeing NCAA women's hockey into
an area that doesn't have it so that girls who
play in that area can see it. Yes, And I
just yeah, I don't know that.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
That having been in that situe, like what girl watching that?
It's like I want to Stonehill, you know.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah. I mean the thing is that there are right,
I mean, so there are forty five teams and there
are twenty twenty five you know whatever the number is
players on each roster. I mean not all those players
are going to be Olympic caliber for sure, or you know,
wha caliber or I mean really, I mean caliber of

(37:46):
being on maybe thirty of the forty five teams. There's
a lot of players that are going to be needed
to fill out those rosters. And so you're going to
get into this, well, this is an opportunity to play
Division one in national collegiate whatever we want to call
it at this level hockey as an experience for you know,

(38:09):
for life. And I think there there is value in
that still, even though it may be hard to see
you in the moment and it's hard to see in
the the scores and the rankings, and that is still
what a lot of are athletic enterprises built on, is

(38:30):
that opportunity for sure. And so I think that is
what it comes down to for me, is that there
still needs to be that that chance to have a chance, yeah,
to put in.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
I don't think anybody's questioning like whether there should be
new hot programs. I think it's the part where you
put new hogins. The reigning national champion, which is the
you know. Then then it comes down to like maybe
where the you know, we're one of these teams teams
affilate like who who plan this tournament?

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Who did this right?

Speaker 2 (39:01):
But yeah, I think I think no, I absolutely agree,
Like I there's so much we know, like studies show
how important it is for young girls and women to
participate in sports, what they take away from the life skill,
the way that it prepares them for the future, the
way that women that are in C suites in business

(39:22):
have almost all have, you know, high level athletic backgrounds,
Like there are in arguable ways for me to like
justify or however you want to use it to say,
like why these teams should be playing. I think it
definitely is one of those things where, uh, maybe we
just don't need to like publicly embarrass them in front
of potential recruits. So yeah, I think those are maybe

(39:44):
two separate questions. But like I personally like as someone
as I said, who in the past was maybe like
why are we adding another you know, program from a
small school in the same sort of area where we've
got a bazillion D one and D three women's programs.
I like, I've completely changed my tune because I want
every single one of those girls of women who want

(40:04):
to play to have that opportunity. And you know, those
girls and women aren't stupid either, Like they know what
they're getting into when they go to some of these programs,
and like that is a choice that they're you said,
the chance to have a chance, but also the chance
to have an outstanding you know, collegiate experience and be
student athletes and represent something bigger and make lifelog friends
and learn all the you know, sort of all of
that sort of thing. So I hope that nobody out

(40:27):
there is questioning like why those programs even exist and
as when we started new how it was, but what
four or five programs to start and here we are,
you know, so many more girls and women getting a
chance to play. I think that's the be all and
all of the conversation.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, all right, thank you to build for that question.
Next question from Katie and Dick. I believe it's Edie Yde.
I apologize if I'm not pronouncing that correctly, but the
question is I would be interested in having you address
a large gap between Ohio State and everybody else in
penalty minutes per game it cannot be attributed to the
brawl with Minnesota since they have about fifty percent more

(41:07):
than Minnesota. It seems to me that their strategy is
to be as nasty as possible, figuring that they will
get away with a lot more then they will get
called for thoughts. Well, I've got thoughts. I'll let you
go first. So if you want to have some thoughts
on that, well you you.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Did some comparison and what looked at the numbers to
start with that.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Okay, So Ohio State does lead the country at two
hundred and fifty five penalty minutes and with fourteen point
one point seven per game, but that only tells part
of it, because they actually have more games where the
opponents has taken more penalties penalty minutes than them then

(41:52):
the other way around. So there are eight games of
the eighteen they've played where they have been called fewer
penlly minutes and seven games then that they've been called
for more penalty minutes, the numbers being equal in three games.
So we really are looking at that Minnesota game October

(42:15):
nineteenth that ended with a brawl after the horn. Ohio
State end up with seventy five penalty minutes in that
game thanks to six major or misconducts or disqualifications at
the end. So that's sixty of those minutes right there.
Then there was another game November first again Saint Thomas

(42:36):
called for twenty nine penalty minutes, including one of them
that was a five in a game, So that's fifteen
of those minutes. Those things do add up fast, and
when you're talking about a side of the game where
there aren't, you know, tons of penalties called to begin with,
and a lot of games, for better or for worse,

(42:58):
they could you could say in some games that there
probably could have been a few more calls made that
might have prevented it from getting out of hand later.
We've I know, we've both seen those kind of games.
I still think for an average of fourteen minutes a
game with those outliers having been thrown in there is

(43:19):
not ridiculous have because of what you know is cooked
into that number.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, there's a couple of that.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
That's all I've got.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
One I would say, I think it's it's twofold. What
you were just saying is that, like there are plenty
of games where stuff goals uncalled, but also maybe because
of how things started this season, like that Wisconsin Ohio
State series, they were calling like two people looked at
each other in the face off their goal and they
were both going to the box. So there had to
be a ton of minutes there, but it was like

(43:52):
very little actual power playtime. It was just like a
pre emptory disciplinary like don't you even think about it?
So I do think that some of that is playing
into it at this point. I I think the game
overall has become more physical. I think, you know, the
SDHL and Sweden added more physical contact, and now the

(44:12):
PUB has added more physical contact. Also, the players are
just bigger, stronger, you know, like that's just a product
of how the game's going to continue to grow. And
so I do think there has been the way that
the game has called been called I think continues to
evolve and change. And one of the things that we
run into is that like the people that have always

(44:33):
called it one way or I think now struggling with
with finding the correct line on it, when when the
w c g A was very just let them play, uh,
and that that's not gonna fly anymore. And so the
refs that we're not calling much of anything are now
I think struggling and maybe going to be complete other
direction to call too much. I think there's part of that.

(44:55):
And then also I just think, you know, Ohio State
plays a game like they are. The are very physical.
They are they do that strong four check, which is
gonna lead to more things like trips and holds, and
especially if they're getting beat on that. I mean, we saw,
you know, some of these games where teams are getting
breakaways and things. That's gonna lead to a little bit
more penalties. And I also think, like I do not

(45:20):
think Ohio State would be offended by these things. I mean,
I think in the vein of Abby Murphy, they like
being a little bit antagonizing, right, they like they're a
little bit ship sterers, Like on purpose, they want to
get a reaction out of you. They want you to
do something stupid, and I think that is just gonna
naturally lead. Sometimes they're gonna get called fort sometimes they're not.

(45:42):
Sometimes they're gonna say something and then later they're gonna
get coded into something. I mean, they are all still
you know, twenty somethings and silly, but yeah, I think
you know, these are these are still kids, and I
think that they, you know, they Ohio State likes their
underdog mentality, they like to push people buttons. I think,
you know, they're not as over as Abby is, but

(46:03):
I do think, you know, and there's just like ongoing
rivalries at this point, Like I'm pretty sure half of Minnesota,
Ohio State in Wisconsin all would love to just you know,
get each other out of a game. So you're gonna
see Leila and enjoy Done standing up to each other,
and you're gonna see you know, Abby going after several
players and trying to you know, go them into things.

(46:24):
So yeah, I do. I think what you're saying about
the numbers absolutely make sense in terms of I don't
think they're that out of control. And I think it's
a product too of Ohio State is not exactly the
team this year that they've been in years past.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
And so.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
That's not to say that they're not still very very good.
I don't want to like no offense Ohio State by
any means, but I do think sometimes there are plays
where like maybe things aren't clicking the way that they'd
expected them to. They're younger this year, with their international
players and things like that that I think it's just
naturally they're used to pushing and then being able to

(47:01):
catch up to things like like maybe slip past the
defense and stuff, and so that's going to naturally lead
to some more penalties just as they sort of figure
out who they are this year with a younger roster
and having graduated a ton of the players that sort
of divivings for the last few years.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, thanks for that question, Katie and Dick. Let's move
on to our last one, which is from Clay Green.
Which w HA team is best situated to make a
move upward when the Team USA players leave at the
end of January. This might we might expand this to
you know, all Olympic players leaving that might are leaving

(47:40):
in the tail end of January. What what are your
thoughts there? There's all I mean, you can look at
this a lot of ways in terms of like, well,
there are opportunities within teams, and there are opportunities for
other teams that will not be losing very many, if
any players.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yeah, I'll start this by saying that, like, sort of
the list I made used World Championship rosters from last
year and sort of what I could find from some
of the pre Olympic stuff. But nobody's got a roster
out now, So looking at current NCA rosters and guessing
which of those players will be missing is still an
imperfect science, but based you know, sort of on best
guests or the players that have been sort of in

(48:20):
the pre pools for US Canada and some of that stuff,
I show that the Gophers will be missing six players,
the Buckeyes will be mixing six players, the Badgers would
be missing six, U m. D would be missing five,
and Saint Cloud will be missing five, and then Saint Thomas,
Makato and but Nigi are not going to be missing anybody.
So in that group of not missing anybody, Saint Thomas

(48:41):
and Makato are the two teams that have sort of
created the most chaos in this conference, and so to
me are the two teams that have sort of the
most opportunity. But you know, like those top three teams Wisconsin,
Minnesota and Ohio State have depth, have you know, the
ability to sort of make up or however you want

(49:02):
to say, Like, I don't think there's going to be
a massive drop off from any one of those teams,
but I think the biggest thing will be there's going
to be more mistakes. The pace of play is going
to be slower. It's going to be players, you know,
maybe playing more minutes or playing in positions that they
didn't play in before. And that's I think where the
opportunity lies. Where you're Saint Thomas and man Cato top

(49:22):
lines can maybe use their speed, do some you know,
stealing the pock and things like that, and really push
against the less experienced players. And so for me, I
think it's Saint Thomas and Mankato. And that's kind of
a boring answer, but it was worn out by the
fact that the other five teams are missing a bunch
of players.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
Yeah. The thing to keep in mind there with man
Cato is though even though they may not be missing
any of their players, they will be missing their head coach,
Shared Dickerman, as part of the US Olympic staff, And
so that you know it isn't going to reflect on
the ice, but you take your head coach out for
a long stretch that valley point, that does affect something.

(50:05):
So just to keep an eye on Minnesota State for
that stretch that too.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Yeah, And I think the the other thing I would
point out is that and it does we I think
both Ava McNaughton for the US of Gascon for Canada
are are possibly sort of marginal in terms of whether
or not they make their Olympic squads. But if they
are both gone, and we assume that Amelia Kirko has
also gone for Finland with Saint Cloud, that's three of

(50:30):
these teams missing their goalies, their starters, which is like
a huge, just a huge, huge difference. So Ohio State
and Minnesota will not be in that position, and so
I think those are sort of the the key components
there that you have to talk about, right and.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
There are then there are a handful of other schools
that will be or not in w c HA, that
will be missing a player or two or three. It
looks like based on what you've you've found from looking
at World Championship rosters.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Yeah, yeah, looks like Hockey East obviously, the wealthy sisters
at BU named her Zig. The Swiss player at Holy
Cross also Lesia Bachelor from Switzerland for Northeastern. I apologize,
Alexandra from Merrimack from Hungary. I will not be attempting
your last name because I will not do it well.
But she she.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Played Schenko maybe yeah, she played.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
With hunger and quality. It is interesting that you because
we have France qualified, we have Hungary, and we'll have Italy.
So also just the players that people aren't necessarily used
to seeing being gone, Like Lynnenwood has three players, two
from France, one from from Hungary, Mercy Hurst has two gone.
Penn State will be missing Nicole Hall, Clarkson, Andrew Trinkova

(51:43):
and Manon les Godan and then Dartmouth Mikhilahesheva again a goalie,
a very good goalie. So that's you know, how we'll
see things play out in some of the other conferences.
Uh but I yeah it, who knows. I continue to
feel like I don't have we we just don't understand
how things are going to be affected.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
We just like it.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
I don't as much as we can. We could talk
ourselves in circles and probably still get it wrong.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
I think I'm one of the teams that I Am
really going to be keeping an eye on during that
stretch is Penn State because we know they've they've put
themselves in a position where right now they would be
a one seed in the NCAA tournament. We know that
you mentioned Nicole Hall, we know they'll be missing Testigianiky

(52:31):
with Team USA when you're in kind of those those
narrow margins of you know, losing a couple of HA
games really hits you in the NPI. Yeah, so if
that were to happen during that stretch, that could really
throw a wrench into where they are in the in

(52:54):
the tournament field.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
Right, and and the routine you know in the past
that have talked about like yes, you know, we can
win our autobid, but like we would like to have
our postseason taking care of regardless of that, like, no
matter what happens in the tournament. So I would say
too that there'll be plenty of teams that would like
to see Penn State drop below what top eighteams or
so like that opens up another autobid position. So yeah,

(53:19):
like they would like to get themselves higher, you know
what I'm saying in the NTI above Penn State. So yeah,
I think that's a really good point that unfortunately per
Penn State, like they're going to take a bigger hit
per loss. That's just the nature of how the game,
the math works in that situation, right.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Okay, that is our look at I guess what we're
going to be looking at over that month. But we
thank you all for the questions that you sent in. Again,
if you have other questions that we can adjusting the
second half of the season, find the email address in

(54:03):
our show notes. We are going to take a real
quick break, come back and wrap things up. Stay with
us on the podcast. Welcome back to the podcast, Todd Nicole.
To wrap things up for our last episode of twenty
twenty five. We're going to take a couple of weeks

(54:24):
off after this and get back into things when the
schedule starts picking up again in twenty twenty six. But Nicole.
The rivalry series wrapped up last weekend, the US winning
all four games in the series against Canada, with two
wins in Edmonton ten to four on Wait, what was

(54:44):
that Thursday? Wednesday? I can't I can't even remember that
was Wednesday? Yes, and then for to one a lot
closer game on Saturday. I'd like to look at this
starting from the ca ended a side of things which
could be doom and gloom at this point. If you're

(55:05):
looking at this choosy, look at it from a a
certain perspective, are you are you? Yeah? I mean, do
you think this is something they need? They need a wellness.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Check on I not to hedge, but so I both
think that, Yeah, I think there are you know, it's
not good, there are question marks for them. I think,
you know, there are people that are sort of really
losing their chill this week over this, and I'm not
sure it's that bad. I think, yeah, I I really

(55:41):
liked the bounce back from Anne Renee. She had a
rough game in that ten four got pulled. I thought
she played really well. I know what ended up being
for one, but she made some massive state save. So
I think just from ah, you know, the foundation is
your goaltending, and if you're worried about your goaltender, that's
like the rest of the conversation kind of doesn't matter.
So I thought that was really important for the team

(56:02):
overall and for welfare ultimately. I don't think these games,
the outcome of these games matter. I don't think they
like have a huge bearing on what happens in the Olympics.
I think the Olympics are just this whole other level
and I don't think we have a good grasp on
what either team is going to look like ultimately. In

(56:24):
that position, I just think that that the nature of
the games, the pressure of the games, the stature of it.
All of that makes it that I think it's impossible
sort of to predict, Like I don't doubt that Canada
is gonna play spectacular in the Olympics. That's what they do.
They have Marie Filipo Lan, they have tons of experience.

(56:44):
At no point do I fit like, do I have
a worry about whether Canada can play great hockey in
the Olympics. I think the question mark for them is
maybe some of the line makeups. I think, you know,
they had some younger players in their sort of well
that just didn't get a lot of good looks. Like
I think it's very strange to put John Gardner so

(57:04):
far down the line sheet that they did. I think
Troy Ryan maybe relied way too hard on his Toronto
lineups and his Toronto players, his PWHL players and like,
you know what they look like, you know how well
they played together. For me, I thought it was interesting.
I thought both coaches should have used these games to

(57:28):
get a read on players or different things, and neither
of them really did. They really kind of stuck to
what we've seen sort of over and over for them.
And so when you've got like Caitlyn Kraeber and Chloe
Primorano and you're not sure if they're gonna make the
squad or if they're you know, they're players you're gonna
be able to rely on in the Olympics, and you
don't even play them in one of the two games,
like they're the healthy scratches that, like, you know what

(57:50):
you're getting from so many players on that team. And
it seems very strange to me to, like, I guess
sacrife to like go for ego and the ability to
win a rivalry series game over like actually testing the
players that you have and making sure that you've got
the right line combinations and things like that. And it
felt like both coaches were more concerned with winning this

(58:12):
than what they could learn through these games about their team.
And I find that very strange. I think there's a
bigger conversation. Sorry, go ahead, no.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
I was just gonna say that I was I was
wondering going into this whether we would see some you know,
good old fashioned US Canada gamesmanship of like we're not
going to show you anything in this or but you know,
we're not going to put the lines that we're going
to be taking the milan out there, but I think
we kind of saw that. I mean, this was like nope,

(58:43):
here's our eighteen, Yes, let's go play.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
But it was like different from the one that the
one the lines that worked really well at Worlds last year.
Like I mentioned j in Garter, I feel like maybe
Maal Tay and Blear Turnbull got more minutes or like, hi,
there's I don't know, they're just I think there are
times and I don't I think that Hockey Canada is

(59:07):
better about this than they were. But I think Hockey Canada,
particularly with their women's team and lord knows, I don't
play PA any attention to the men, can get very
stuck in their rut of like this is what works, this,
this is good and we aren't gonna mess with it.
You know. The average asia of their tweet team is
quite high. People are like, well, Choe Pribano's the youngest
player since briefly Blond. You can't say that they're not

(59:28):
bringing in young talent. And I'm like, yeah, that's one
person and she didn't play a bunch, so like it
just overall, I think, and I'm not just saying this
because the US goes very young. I just think Hockey
Canada doesn't do a great job of sort of cycling
in players and continuing development. I think, first of all,

(59:48):
they rely a lot on provinces and profits teams to
develop players before you eighteens, and then they rely on
colleges after you eighteens. And I think of some of
the players that I saw just be really stand out,
jaw dropping amazing at seventeen that then haven't been progressed
through their program, that have maybe got lost in the
NCAA system a little bit. And I just think that

(01:00:09):
there is a larger conversation that Canada and Canadians should
be having sort of about some of these players that
like we saw these standouts at seventeen years old that
just like haven't even really made a camp, haven't really
even gotten a chance. Like I'm not saying I know
that like Mackenzie Alexander would be spectacular with the senior
national team, but like you also don't know she wouldn't be.
And it seems weird to me that, like, you know,

(01:00:31):
we do the the U twenty two in the collegiate series,
and like that's kind of the end of what you
see for players that aren't are really already in the
senior national team pool, and you think about like how
long it took them to bring in Darryl Watts and
things like that. They just they have their same players.
They have these players that have been going for several years.
And it's not that I don't think that those players
are good or that they can't win. I'm just it

(01:00:53):
seems crazy to not be looking to develop and bring
in sort of new blood and see how that could
change dynamics. And they seem just really happy to be
comfortable in what they have, like these are top pier players,
we don't need anything else, and uh Iya to some point,

(01:01:14):
like it's I feel it makes me think a little
bit of a like umd under Shannon Miller, right like
she was still at the forefront for a while, and
then as other teams were catching up, she's stuck with
what she was doing and didn't also sort of develop
and grow from there. And that's kind of I feel
like maybe where Hockey Canada is right now is just
like almost a stubborn refusal to see that like just

(01:01:34):
because you've got a really good team and just because
you have Pulan and just because you've won the gold
medal A bunch doesn't mean that what you're doing is
what you should keep doing. Does that make sense Amy
saying that?

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah, And I think that you know that all being said,
it it's going to come down to one game again.
You know, if everything goes the way we expect it
to go, it's going to come down to the US
and Canada in a gold medal game and one score
somewhere along the line, and right, and and so they're

(01:02:11):
good enough to be in that conversation. And I think
we we know these both these teams at some level
are due for a massive overhaul of players, as as
we're seeing the p w h L kind of start
to be the you know, the the producer of of players.
Now when you know this is Hillary Knight's last Olympics

(01:02:34):
for the US, probably plays last Olympics for Canada, right,
so those that next generation is going to have to
come in at some point. We've seen that happen for
the US. I think a little bit more to your point,
and well, what's it going to take for Canada to

(01:02:55):
move it along?

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Yeah? And I feel like this is all well and good,
but if Canada wins goal to get like we're gonna
they'll just it reinforces what they did, and like we
sound stupid, and you know, like all of this conversation
was for not and but if they lose, then I think,
you know, there's a lot of things that you can
point to, and it's not just this rivalry series. I
think one of the important things is that if he

(01:03:19):
really feels like USA has had whether you agree with
it or not, whether you like it or not, there's
been a plan in place for four years that, like
Roboleski started bringing in these young players, got them into
world championships, them international experience, Like this roster hasn't changed
a ton, but the point is giving that young team
a chance to work together and get that experience and

(01:03:42):
be comfortable in those higher leverage situations and sort of
all of those things. And I feel like if you're
just gonna sort of throw in a player, a younger
player late in the game, I'm not necessarily sure how.
I'm almost contradicting myself on that in terms of like
Premerano and Kramer, but I just like there needs to
be maybe some more long term planning of developing those

(01:04:06):
younger players and putting them in a position to be
able to be impactful at the Olympics. Yeah, I mean
I think about like, like Sim's making the mistake that
led to the penalty that led to the gold medal
in Utica, right, things like that, so that like she's
not in a position to maybe like make a dumb
mistake later on, right, like a mental mistake. I think

(01:04:28):
that's what I am thinking about when I think of
like the sort of the long term planning for us,
is that like understanding that mentally the Olympics is just
a whole separate ballgame and and putting your players in
the best position, and like maybe that is the mentality
for Canada, Like why would I put someone younger there
when I've got proven you know, Olympic champions so you know. Also, yeah,

(01:04:52):
like it's all speculation, and I certainly don't want to
be responsible for making either roster. So I do think
they're you know, a bigger conversation about like why some
of the very talented, very successful Canadian U eighteens of
say the last five years are not on at least

(01:05:13):
in camps and senior national team from not getting sort
of token looks once a year in the at summer
summer festivals. And things like that, you know, sort of
regardless of the Olympics. I think that's a conversation that
probably needs to be had. But you know, hindsight will
be fifty to fifty when we get to the to
the end of February and will either sound amazing or

(01:05:34):
like we have no idea what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
So, yeah, the the tournament starts just a little over
seven weeks from now, which you know, let's hope there
is a rink to play on and that there are
seats to for spectators to watch from videos so such, yeah,
video the capabilities for broadcasts. Yes, that term is supposed

(01:05:58):
to start on You're a Fifth, one day before the
opening ceremony because it stretches long enough that they need
that extra day. So we will be talking about those
rosters when they do come out in the new year.
That is something I don't know if there's actually a
date yet set for that. Us don't be happening at

(01:06:19):
the World Earth at the Winter Classic on January first,
but I don't know that that's going to happen this year.
We'll we'll keep an eye on that, but maybe we'll
have something to talk about when we come back for
our first show of twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Six, and then I'll be heading to the eighteen world
so don't forget about that before we even get to
the Olympics, which got.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Lots of drama. Happens quickly after that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Right yeah youah, three weeks or so out.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
All right, Well, like I said, this is our last
show of twenty twenty five, So Nicole, I want to
wish you and your family a happy holidays, happy New Year,
and well, thank you for being you and doing everything
you do for women's hockey because we need someone like
you to rally everyone around and then to pull together
all these lists of things that you do, and thank

(01:07:05):
you look through dozens and dozens of rosters, So thank
you for always doing that, and and yeah, thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
For doing it with me always. Fun would not be
as near as much fun just talking to my computer screen,
so I appreciate that as well. But we hope everybody
you know is safe and warm and with their people,
no matter who they are. You know, in the coming weeks,
take care of everybody. It's really cold outside up here,
so I hope everybody else is being careful. I was
looking I'm going to you know, Kate Breton everybody's warning

(01:07:35):
me about the weather in Wisconsin this weekend. It was
negative too, while it was thirty three in Nova Scotia.
So I was pretty excited, Like, take me to Canada
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Yeah, it doesn't seem right, yeah right, so we'll take that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
But yeah, everybody be safe and careful and we'll see
you in the new year.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
All right. That's going to wrap it up for Nicole
On Todd. Thanks for listening to and watching the podcast.