Books & Company Writers Series Russ Hall and W.C. Jameson

During this interview, we meet the magnificent Author Russ Hall and treasure author W.C. Jameson. W. C. has been interviewed in the film world as well as seen on television. Let's dive into the many writings and tales of these authors. Visit our website www.single2do.com to follow us.

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Welcome to the writer series podcast calledBooks and Company. The podcast is presented
by Single to Do and the SaintPeter's Episcopal Church here in Laga Vista,
Texas. I am your host,Elizabeth Colvin. Every month we will showcase
the art of writing, focusing onboth fiction and non fictional stories. You

(00:36):
can visit us live or listen toour podcasts. Please like, share,
and enjoy the show. Have anamazing day. I'm Charlie Severs. I'm
the Appreciates Saint Peter's Church. Thankyou for coming. This is the first

(00:57):
of the series, just experimenting howwe're going to do things. So this
will be our trial run and Ithink that it will be entertaining. Bod
These two guys got to do alittle bit remarkable writers and entertainers. Good

(01:21):
evening everyone. My name is ElizabethColvin on What's Single to Do? And
I'm here at my church, SaintPeter's Episcopal Church, and this is our
writer series. At the point,And why don't we say at the point?
We say at the point, becauselook at this beautiful area. This

(01:42):
particular church was built on the highestpoint here in Laga Vista, and we
love it. And I just wantto say thank you guys for being here
and being a part of this beginning. This is the beginning of a writer
series. We're going to be takingsome surveys. We're going to be asking

(02:05):
some questions of how to always makethis better because reading is important. And
we have two wonderful world renowned artists, writers, poets, songwriters. They're
right here. We have mister RussHall. He's locally here in Laga Vista.

(02:29):
He's written over one hundred books,hundreds of articles and also has been
a ghostwriter for many books as well. So you know, guys, we
just want to give him a hand. Give mister halla haand Holieble. And

(02:49):
now we have mister W. C. Jameson, and he's amazing, guys.
We have a person that has traveledall over Texas, over the world,
in my opinion, is an awesomewriter about treasure in Texas. One
of my favorite books that I hada just enjoyable time reading was The Last

(03:15):
Train Robber and it was amazing.So I just want to say, give
him a hand, guys, misterW. C. Jamison, and I
just want to just take the timeto thank our Bishop's Committee for allowing us
to be able to put on anevent here and we have one of our

(03:38):
members of our Bishop's committee, CONNYE. Mendez, and then our parish we
have Father Charlie and Robin Sumner's andthey are awesome leaders. And I just
want to say, guys, justwant to sit back and relax and find
out more about our wonderful authors.Thank you, Okay, guys, I

(04:09):
just want to find out basically.You know, you have so many projects
and you're involved in a lot ofdifferent things. Tell me what are you
working on currently and tell our audienceabout your writings. We're gonna start with
you, Russ. Well, I'mactually working on the tenth alf Greennen novel,

(04:31):
which everything I mean as far asa story, but behind the story
there's some subtext of something going onin the social situation that gets in my
belly and I want to share itsometime and maybe do something to help it.
And this next one is some ofthe action comes from road rage.
And I've been on the roads andseen enough of this to know that people

(04:56):
and there's more others and require oneach other apparently, and getting on each
other. There's nerves and the calmLodge is to get your head in the
other personal point of view and bekind and considered. Isn't as common as
it used to be when I gothere in New York. I mean,
people would wave at each other onthe roads. You know. Now they
buzz buy and hank the deer andsometimes, you know, try to run

(05:24):
you off the road. So Ithought it'd be time to do something that
deals with the nature of anger,you know, and and how you moderate
it, how you get above tosay, you know, you're better than
that. And so it's and it'sgot to happen with people in awful situations.
So we'll have a lot of fun. Awesome, awesome, thank you,

(05:46):
Thank you for that. And wC tell us about your writing.
Which part of it is your passion, because you have a wide variety of
things that you're working on passion.I'm passionate about all of it. I'm
passionate about the whole notion of havingthe opportunity to create, to be creative.

(06:14):
Most of my books are nonfiction,and so I'm passionate about history.
I'm passionate about telling the truth abouthistory. I have four series going right
now. Interestingly, they're all accidentalseries. I never started out with the
notion of having a series at all, but the success of the early books
led to series. The first series. It's what the publishers refer to as

(06:40):
they call it, whatever they callit. W. C. Jamison's Lost
Mind and Bury Treasure Series or somethinglike that. It has forty six books
in counting right now. Ever sinceI was a teenager, I've been a
professional treasure hunter in this country andin Mexico. Tried Jamaica for a while.

(07:00):
It didn't work out, and I'mstill active. I just got back.
I'm still recovering from a treasure recoveryoperation in Virginia a few weeks a
couple of weeks ago. It didn'twork out either, but it was an
adventure. Another series I've got.Oh, and I might point out you

(07:23):
probably if you watch TV moch thereare a lot of TV shows about lost
minds and buried treasures and things likethat. I get calls from the History
Channel and a bunch of other channelsto be a quote unquote an expert simply
because I wrote the book. Theypresume I'm an expert. But they have
based a number of documentaries and anumber of series episodes on either my books

(07:46):
or chapters of my books. SoI get to do a lot of filming
with the History Channel, Travel Channel, Discovery Channel, and all these other
channels that I never watch. Idon't even know what the names of them
are, but I usually wind uphaving fun. Uh. And then as
a result of being on TV,other publishers contact me and say, we

(08:09):
saw you on TV. Because whenI'm on TV and I'm talking about some
treasure, They'll they'll they'll have youseen this? It'll it'll be my image,
and it'll be my name under theimage, and then we'll have the
name of the book that the showis about. Well, for the next
two or three weeks, the salesof the book spikes, and so other
publishers notice this and say can weget in on this too? So right

(08:31):
now, this Lost Minds and BuriedTreasure series has something like six different publishers,
and it's I'm so far keeping upwith it, but it's it's it's
been fun. Another series I've gotis it's called the train robbery series.
You mentioned the last train robbery,the most successful. I'll bet you didn't
know this most successful train robber inthe history of the United States. He

(08:56):
robbed more money then Jesse, James, Butch Cassidy, the Daltons and the
Dolans all put together, and nobody'sever heard of it. And he's from
Texas. His name is Willis Newtonsfrom Uvalde, Texas and he is Willis
Newton. Uh. And it wasa joy working on that book. I

(09:20):
just turned in last week, thefourth installment of that series. It's called
Old West Train Robbers and their HistoricHeights. That's the publisher's working title for
that. This has been fun.If you want to know how to rob
a train, uh, check outthese books. It's it's not a how

(09:41):
to, but by the time youget finished, you'll know you know how
to rob one. And do youknow why people don't rob trains anymore?
Any idea? They don't ship anythingvaluable on trains. Money is shipped now
electric electronic, Yeah, electronic.Another series I've got is it's called it

(10:01):
Beyond the Grave series. I startedout. The first book was Billy the
Kid Beyond the Grave. There's alwaysbeen some controversy on whether or not Sheriff
Pat Garrett actually shot Billy the Kid. There had been whisperings and some interesting
developments with regard to the fact thatBilly the Kid survived all of this and

(10:24):
went on to live a somewhat longand particularly happy life. Anyway, we
did the research, the investigation.It took a couple of decades, but
the book came out. It's calledBilly the Kid Beyond the Grave. That's
the book that started getting a lotof the FaceTime on TV. It's been
in circulations for I think it's inthe seventeenth year and up until two years

(10:46):
ago, up until COVID started.Every year that that book was out sold
more copies than it did the previousyear, and it got I think I
did seven or eight History Channel,Discovery Channel episode on that. Other books
in that series our Butch Cassidy Beyondthe Grave. What do you know about
Butch Cassidy in the movie? Right? Most of the stuff in that movie

(11:07):
is not true. That movie wasbased on a novel. Novel, as
you know, is fiction. Wefound Butch Cassidy. He came back from
Bolivia and he lived out his lifein the American West and died in Spokane,
Washington, an old man under analias. A third book in that
series was John Wilkes Booth Beyond theGrave. Same thing, Booth Got Away

(11:30):
and we found him. You knowwhat happened to him? And the fourth
book in the series, this isone of the most successful ones. I've
always been bothered by the whole notionof Amelia Earhart mysteriously going down in the
Pacific, and I decided to investa lot of time on researching this and
trying to find out what happened.And I was aided somewhat with the Freedom

(11:56):
of Information Act, which now allowedme to have access to stuff that heretofore
had been quote unquote top secret.Amelia Earhart quite possibly was shot down in
the Pacific, but she landed safely. She in her pilot, Captain Noon,
and landed safely and they were capturedby the Japanese. She was a

(12:18):
prisoner of the Japanese for six years. She was repatriated after the war was
over when the oss went to China, and at that time Japan had occupied
China. China's prisons were on theChinese Japan's prisoners were on the Chinese coast.
They were liberating people out of theseprisons and guess who they found.

(12:43):
She was repatriated under an alias backin the United States. The question is
why, because she was America's hero. She was the most popular woman in
America, if not the world,until she went down in nineteen thirty seven.

(13:03):
As it turns out, Amelia Earhartwas a spine. Her plane had
been fitted with cameras and part ofher mission was to fly over Japanese mandated
islands in the Pacific and take photographs. And the Japanese figure this out,
that's why they shot her down.She may have also been you know who,
You remember who Tokyo Rose was.This was a female broadcaster who would

(13:28):
broadcast over live radio to the troopsthat were fighting in the Japanese islands,
the Philippines and places like this,and this charming Anglo voice would say say,
while you're fighting here, allegedly foryour country and everything, your wives
and your girlfriends are messing around withyour brother in law and things like this

(13:50):
to try to demoralize our troops.It turns out that Amelia Earhart may have
been forced with than one of thoseTokyo Roses. So when she was repaided,
she was repatriated under another name becauseshe had been a spy for the
government. I understand back then,spy was not spy was a dirty word.
You know, and it was.It remained a dirty word until the

(14:13):
James Bond movies came out and thenspy became a glamorous kind of a thing.
She came back. They did notwant to know that the government did
not want the public to know whather role was, and she didn't want
the public to know about her roleas Tokyo Rose. And having collaborated with
the Japanese, we found her.We found her. She lived under an
alias, the name was Irene Bolm, and she lived through she passed away

(14:41):
sometime in the nineteen sixties in NewJersey. And there's a whole variety of
mysteries surrounding this woman. But thewhole story is told in details here.
I have another series that is amazing. That is amazing. I have another
series and I can't even remember whatthe series with. What's my other series?

(15:01):
Anyway, I have a novel thatI wrote. This is my latest
book. By the way. Oh, the other series, it's called the
Cold Case series, where we lookinto these mysteries, unsolved mysteries throughout most
of the American West, and Ihad enough for the state of Texas,
so I did a whole book onunsolved Mysteries of Texas includes unsolved mysteries of

(15:24):
revolving around some famous Texas outlaws,some famous Texas lost minds and buried treasure,
some ghost stories and some hauntings andsome other things. This was a
fun book to read, and Imight also say I don't want to take
up too much time. I decidedto do because Russ promised this would be

(15:45):
so much fun. I'm also asongwriter. I've recorded over the years something
like ten CDs. I still perform. I'm going I've been on tour in
Europe a couple of years ago,was on tour earlier this year, going
on tour late this year. Butanyway, I brought CDs and I thought,
for everybody that ad buys a book, I'm just going to give you

(16:06):
a CD. You can pick whateverCD or two or three if you want
as a gift. Thank you,Thank you, Russ, I mean thank
you w C two. You bothgave us a really good overview as far
as your projects. Some of thequestions I have because your books have a
lot of imagery and a lot ofdetailed where you talk about Texas in very

(16:30):
succinct detail, Like, for instance, Russ, I really loved your book
Loving Pirates. Loving Pirates was awesome. I just want to show what this
book is. It's Loving Pirates andit tells a wonderful story that it reminded

(16:51):
me of a modernized love story,and I love the way. I won't
spoil how it ended, but itwas an amazing read. And it was
such an amazing read for me becauseI'm so used to this digital world,
so it gave me an opportunity tojust relax, read and digest, and

(17:15):
the characters were just amazing. Whatwas your inspiration on lov and Pirates?
Well, it was just an ideaat first of someone young and coming to
a time in their life where theworld was an open road sort everything.
But I'll tell you a secret aboutwe both have a passion for this is
the research that goes behind the stories. So this takes place in a yacht

(17:37):
that's being shipped across America. Well, there was the idea, so then
I had to figure out, well, our yacht's really shipped across America,
and they are, And then whatkind of a yacht was? It was
size and dimensions, so I gotto where I could see and feel it,
you know, so I know wherethe hatches are and everything. And
just like when I do the Westerns, I would love to have every detail

(17:57):
of a general store, everything,and go I can read it, read.
And when I do treasures, Iwill go to Wc's books because he
had a lot of detail on thatand I could weave that in if I'm
doing Jim boys Bury Treasure or somethinglike that. But in this one,
I mean, there was all thisstuff I had to know. So they're
going to go all these places,and they're going through Arkansas. What happens
in Arkansas? You know? Theymentioned the Diamond and Ruby Mine, and

(18:21):
there's places I've never been there orin the book, but I have to
see them clearly in my head,exactly exactly. Like I loved the visualization
that you gave for New Mexico,the Land of the Enchantment, and it
was phenomenal. I thought a lotof the colors and time frames, the

(18:42):
altercations was for the location. Ithought it was amazing. Well, Stephen
King said in his book on aMemoir on writing, he said, good
description begins in the mind of thewriter, but it has to end in
the mind of the reader. Sowhen you take over, now it's happening
in your head. You're seeing thethings, and you're feeling things, and
you're smelling the where you are rightnow, that's your experience. And so

(19:07):
I started the ball rolling, butit has to end up with you feeling
it exactly exactly, and then wcjust to go back to the last train
robber. You know, I've heardof Willis Newton, I've heard of the
Newton Game. I've seen movies beingmade about Willis Newton because he was from

(19:29):
Uvaldi, so that's not too farfrom here, or his last days he
ended up in Evolved. But Ireally like the fact that you gave us
detailed information and it was almost likeyou were the one interviewing him. So
one of the questions I have ishow were you able to get all of

(19:52):
the details in the gathering process forsomeone that's a new writer that's wanting to
be a historian, how do youget that type of information? Uh?
Basically, every time I do abook, it winds it being a love
affair between me and the book.Willis Newton from Texas, born and raised

(20:17):
in Texas, committed bank robberies andtrain robberies all over the country, but
came back to Texas. Uh.He was. He's one of tens of
thousands of amazing Texas characters. It'sit's it's easy to write about Texas characters.
It is for me anyway. I'mfrom West Texas here, from West

(20:37):
Texas, from West Texas too,but you know what I'm talking about,
Yes, And so I could relateto this guy. And I thought,
here's a colorful person that has neverhad the justice done. I mean he
was, he was an outlaw.He broke the law, he admitted it,
but he was colorful. We loveoutlaws. We love outlaws, and
we love train robberies. And youknow, it's it's making a living all

(21:00):
of this stuff. And so Ichased down interviews that had been done with
him, also chased down the dozensof newspaper articles that were printed at the
time that he had robbed banks androbbed trains. And I felt like I
came. I came to know thisman who was the leader of the Newton

(21:23):
Gang, the Newton Boys, thatconsisted of basically him and in three of
his brothers and a couple of otherpeople that would come in and out from
time to time. And I wantedto I wanted to treat and see if
you agree with me. Here.I wanted to treat Willis Newton for what

(21:44):
he was. He was an outlaw, but he was a successful outlaw,
and as such he deserved a certaintype of respect, and so I treated
him with a certain level of dignity. I suppose right right. And he
also liked to get people that werehelpers. But he really strategius strategically looked
for the right individual right, andthat's what I admired right, and I

(22:10):
felt like I came to know it. I thought, this, this is
a guy I wish I had beenhis neighbor. I actually talked to people
who were his neighbors in uvality thatknew him when he was when he was
still alive. I thought, I'dlike to live next door to this guy,
just to listen to the stories thathe would that he would tell.
But I tried to capture some ofthis, some of this charm, some

(22:30):
of this daring dude, some ofthis adventure into this book. And thank
you for bringing I think you didan awesome job. I really thought you
did. I mean, especially therewere What was amazing to me also was
that there robberies that were in likeBernie Bernie, Texas. Who would have

(22:55):
thought but Marvel falls. Yes,So that was amazing. I like that
aspect. And you know, Ialso wanted to ask you a question because
I also looked at the Lost Treasuresand American story. And I have one
of my dearest friends that wasn't ableto be here tonight. She's a retired

(23:18):
school teacher, and she wanted toask the question, who inspired what person
inspired you to become a writer?This is actually an easy question. I
was inspired by two writers, onea fiction writer and one a nonfiction writer.

(23:41):
A folk course. My first library, this may give you some idea
of my age. My first librarywas a bookmobile that came to the school
that I went to. I wasin the fifth grade. I was ten
years old, and I remember werefirst stepping into the bookmobile and being bombarded

(24:03):
with the sight of all of thesebooks and the smell, the smell of
the books. And as I asI touched these books, I looked at
these titles. I had no idea. I was ten years old, I
had no clue, but there wasa there was a level of something akin
to a primitive kind of reverence,and I would I remember touching the spines

(24:27):
of these books, thinking what iswhat is in here? And I come
I come to realize later that thesewere adventures in these books, most of
my adventures. By the way.I started in the library. I checked
out two books that day. Thefiction writer was Edgar Rice Burroughs and the
book was Tarzan of the Apes.Okay, great story, great story.

(24:49):
I was just enthralled an adventure,adventure. The second book I checked out
was Coronado's Children by the Great TexasRight J. Frank Doby. J.
Frank dobe probably is as responsible,the late and great J. Frank Obey
is as responsible as anybody for mehaving an interest in capturing these stories of

(25:15):
lost minds and buried treasures placing themin book form. According to my publishers,
I'm the best selling treasure author inAmerica today, whatever that means.
But I owe a lot of thatto J. Frank Dobie, who paved
the way. That was my inspiration, and to this day I still read
his books with the idea of learningsomething just simply because of the clear and

(25:40):
succinct way, clear and succinct waythat he wrote and communicated these notions and
these ideas. Amazing. Thank youfor that and just going back to you,
Russ. You know we've talked alot, and you told me that
your beginnings was poetry. Have yourpoetry book? Tell me about this?

(26:04):
Well, I think and W Cwrites books of poetry too, and he's
given us some lessons on it andwith groups, and it's it was something
to me that a thing in yourmind can be a lot of things,
and it can turn into a novelthat can turn into a non fiction book

(26:25):
where it can turn into poetry.A poem is something that can be shared
in no other way in my mind, and it's an essence of feeling.
We've talked about how feeling is atthe heart of all of the communication we
do with these things. And tome, to do a poem that goes
beyond something you can say in fortythousand words, you know it's there.

(26:48):
It is in maybe fourteen lines,and and it's profound and you can feel
it and it stays with you andmaybe something somebody memorizes it because it helps
them or encourages them or it makesthem feel good awesome. Do you have
a favorite poems in this book?Well, I mentioned the other day when
we were having dinner that. WhenI was a little boy, my grandfather

(27:12):
raised bees, and I wrote apoem about the little boy who watched the
bees and a little boy that watchedwell, and when my grandfather died,
they all formed a big cloud flewaway. Awesome, awesome. That's been

(27:34):
a long time and good. Ican't talk about yet. That's good.
We definitely appreciate it. I'm lookingforward to reading some of your poetry.
I don't know if I could finda quickie, but we should make maybe
ce do want a hinge two?Okay, okay, Well you can flip
through it and when you're ready togo through it, we'll definitely go through
it. This is this is youknow who don Quixote is, and I

(28:07):
like the picture. Things happening thatwouldn't normally happen, and don Quixote at
dawn. It is. It isas if in the morning, drawn by
a vacuum, I failed to understand. My soul creeps out past the first
edges of splintering light, over thecarpet, to the cold mantlepiece, into
the statue of burnished brass, toglimmer in the shaft fists new Sun's evidence.

(28:32):
Even in the seemingly soft care ofmy making. I was hammered in
the spirit of an anvil of force, melded and molded with a firm,
pounding hand, shaped as a statueto stand to night. Don Quixote was
spirited and a vice tight. Andnow on my vigil of quiet brass faith,
I stand, never nodding to glimmeringfaith. But oh how this cold,
very cold mantle sucks at the warmthI once had in flesh. Its

(28:55):
stony heart draws upon my heat,never restoring, never read. What we
want to do now is listen toone of your songs, just one,
and then we're going to take abreak and then let the audience ask questions.
Okay, Ray Rogers, I wasordered to bring this guitar and uh

(29:26):
ordered to do this song. Aquick backstory. This song was recording the
recording studio in Kingsland, Texas,and I was staying at a ranch in
Marvel Falls, and I was drivingto We needed one song to finish up

(29:49):
at CD, and Uh, Ididn't know it was it was it was
all original music, and I did. I wasn't sure when I wanted to
put on that CD that would fit. And so I'm driving to the studio.
It's about fifteen mile drive from whereI was staying to the recording studio,

(30:14):
and this idea hit me. Isaw a sign. You've all seen
these in the past. I sawa billboard that said what would Jesus Do?
And that always confused me. Iwasn't exactly sure what they were getting
at there. But when I wasa kid, when we played Cowboys and
Indians, we always wanted to beRoy Rogers, and it was sort of

(30:40):
like, what would Roy Rogers do? Because he was the guy that I
mean. He was amazing because ifyou remember those old B movies from the
thirties and forties, he could ridea horse at full speed and shoot the
gun out of the hand of anotherguy riding full speed one hundred yards away.
This is not easy to do.So we admired Roy Rogers in our

(31:00):
seven and eight and nine and tenyear old minds. We thought this was
But so I came up in theten miles or so that I was saying,
I came up with a song waswriting. I put a yellow legal
pad up on my steering wheel andwas writing this song, probably much to
the disgust of the people behind me, because I was weaving all over the

(31:25):
road. And I got to thestudio and we laid down my producer and
I laid down a track, andin the door walked Johnny Gimble. Does
anybody know who? Johnny Gimble is? Great Texas fiddle player, won five
Grammy Awards. He was Bob Wills'sfavorite fiddle player. He was Willie Nelson's

(31:45):
favorite fiddle player. He died aboutthree or four years ago. Anyway,
Larry and All was talking to Johnny. He says, Johnny, let me
play this for you and see whatyou think. So he played this song,
this scratch track that we had,and Johnny said, I like this.
Let me can I get in onthis? And so he went out
to his car and brought in hisfiddles, tune them up, and he

(32:07):
started playing a little bit on theon the fiddle, and uh, he
was always smiling. He was havingfun. And I thought, this is
great. I'm sitting here with likethe one of the those famous fiddle players
of all time and he likes mysong. And so Larry the producer says,
Johnny, would you get in thein the in the studio part there
and let's just record a fiddle trackon this and then Larry looks at me

(32:30):
and he says, do you mindif Johnny Gimble plays on your CD?
No brainer? Anyway, the songcame out. It was interesting, it
was it was it was. Itwas what we call on a on a
on a CD. It's what wecall a throwaway song. Most CDs that

(32:50):
you buy Rose Records, you knowtwo or three, you know, radio
play songs, but a lot ofthem are fillers. I don't like to
do that, but this was ahastily done thing, and I thought,
well, he had said to fillat this space. Well, the CD
came out and guess which song theypicked to play on the radio? They
picked this song. It was calledLife was a Whole Lot Better. When
Roy Rogers was around and we wenton tour, played this tour from the

(33:15):
hill country out to roughly the bigband area Alpine and back. We did
a final show at Lukenbach, Texas, and everywhere we went people were singing
along, singing this song with us. And I said, how do you
know the words of this song?I mean, I barely knew the song.
They said, that's the one they'replaying on the radio. Then I

(33:35):
got a phone call. It wason the road on tour somewhere and I
got a phone call from the WesternChannel. I don't know if that's still
it's called the Stars Western Channel.They have every year they have a Roy
Rogers Month, and they said,we want to play your Roy Rogers song
all through the month of November threetimes an hour, twenty four hours a

(33:58):
day during Roy Rogers Month, becausethey just showed all these old Roy Rogers
movies, plus we want to We'regoing to play it three times an hour,
twenty four hours a day for thefull month of October leading up to
this. Can we do that?I said, of course, because you
get paid for this, and souh and then it wound up and again

(34:23):
for a throwaway song, it woundup being one of the most requested songs
that at some of my shows overthe years, and it still is to
some extent. And now I'm goingto do it for you and it if
you want, we'll turn it intoa sing along because everybody was singing along
with it. The hook line onthis at the end of every chorus and
every verse is life was a wholelot better when Roy Rogers was around.

(34:47):
Remember that, can you do thatfor me? Don't make me come out
there. I want to, Iwant to, I want to hear some
singing. After I paid my die, took my seat, watched him ride

(35:13):
across the silver screen, chasing allthe bad guys, saving the town.
Here's your part. Life was awhole lot better when Roy Rogers was around.
It was slower back then, anda whole lot sweeter. The skies

(35:36):
were blue, grass was green ood. Nothing bad ever lasted long, and
nothing much got you down. Lifewas a whole lot better when Roy Rogers
was around. Roy never gave up, he never gave in, he never
backed down. It'd always went,never comprom eyes with the bad guys.

(36:00):
Nobody pushed him around. Because alife was a whole lot better when Roy
Rogers was around. I still seeRoy riding in my dream, triggering Dale
still looked the same. They gotme through some hard times, saw me

(36:24):
safe and sound. Life was awhole lot better when Roy Rogers was around.
Chorus again. Roy never gave up, he never gave in, he
never backed down. He'd always went, never compromised with the bad guys.

(36:44):
Nobody pushed him around. Because alife was a whole lot better when Roy
Rogers was around. All Right,big finish life was a whole lot better.
Life was a whole lot better.Life was a whole lot better when

(37:04):
Roy Rogers was around. One moretime, life was a whole lot better.
Life was a whole lot better.Life was a whole life better when
Roy Rogers was around. I paidmy nne, took my seat, watched

(37:37):
him right across the silk stream,getching all the bad guys, saving the
town. Life was a whole linebetter when Roy Rogers was around. Lord,
it was a different time back then. Life was good men or men,

(37:58):
never had no worries, never sawbrown. Life was a whole lot
better when Roy Rogers was around.Roy never gave up, He never gave
in, and he never back down. He'd always win, never compromised with
the bad guys. Nobody can thosetail around. Life was a whole lot

(38:22):
better when Roy Rogers was around.It was lower back then, and a
whole lot sweeter. This guy's seenblue grass was greener. Nothing bad ever

(38:47):
lasted long, not the much gotyou down. Life was a whole lot
better when Roy Rogers was around.I still see Roy riding in my dreams.
Trigger and Dale still looked the same. I got to be through some
hard times saw me safe and sound. Life pissible lot better when Roy Rogers

(39:13):
close around. Roy never gave up, and he never gave in. He
never backed down. He'd always win, never compromise with the bad guys.
The morning pushed him around. Lifewas a whole lot better when Roy Rogers
was around. Im Pussible live betterlife, Ussible live better life, pussible

(39:42):
lot better when Roy Rogers bows around. Life Pussible live better. Life was
able live better life, Usible livebetter when Roy Rogers was around. Right

(40:02):
now, I want to find outwhat was the inspiration on Keep the Bullets
Flying, a book that you twowrote together. So I want your take
on that first. Russ, Well, we had a jolly time because most
of my books are fiction, mostof his are nonfiction, and he'd done

(40:22):
a few fiction books. But wejust thought for a lark, we do
it together now w C. Itwas the guy who was the head of
the judges for the Western Writers ofAmerica to analysts who've got the Golden spare
Wars and things like that, andso he dealt with fiction a lot,
but with his background treasure in mind, just on all the other Indian materials

(40:46):
as well. We just decided totake off running. So he wrote a
chapter set new where he grew updown the border, and we had a
lean, lanking character and he sohis character slowly developed from cha chapter.
He'd write a chapter, I'd writea chapter, He'd write a chapter,

(41:07):
and we grew into what kind ofguy this was. And he was the
kind of guy you'd want to hangout with, you know. He was
a good guy for the right side. He was stand up for people who
didn't buy it any bullying or orbeing pushing around. He was an eloping
couple trying to get away from theirfamily. There's possees. And as we
went through, I'd get surprised.I mean, I'd get a chapter back

(41:28):
from him and he'd punched the guyin a saloon, you know, and
I thought, well, I candeal with that, because it's just it
was the guy that had a goodpunch coming. So I learned a lot
and he fuxsed that and then we'dgo back and forth over it. And
in the end, I went throughthis smoothing editorial around a few times.
And what was the setting on thatbook? Did it take place in a
certain town? Tell us about that. It was in I'm trying to think

(41:52):
of the years about eighteen seventy eighteenseventy about in my mind about eighteen seventy
three or so and your post Civilwar, but you're it's still the West
is a little rough and tumble,and you had a lot of things going
on, and uh, the Kileand the commands you were still a prevalent
for us, and they're in thebook. And so we had that,

(42:14):
We had all the we had somesaloon activity, we had chases, we
had good times around there. Butit was a I mean, it was
a different world than you wouldn't seelike we have now with all the growth
because there weren't fences and so theIndians would burn off the land every year,

(42:37):
so the buffalo would come down.Well then when the buffalo were gone,
which is about this turn of theI call it a hinge of time.
And those are exciting times to writeabout for us because change is happening
and you can feel history right.And so that's that's where w C came.
What do you remember about the book? What was your take on it?
My take is I went into thiskind of blind and halfway terrified Russ

(43:04):
as the novelist. I've written threenovels, including this one, and however
many books I've written, my agentsays it's over one hundred, most of
those are nonfiction. And I've alwaysbeen attracted to writing novels. In fact,
i'm writing one, trying to writeone right now. So when we

(43:25):
came up with this idea, Ithought, well, this ought to be
fun. It's number one. It'sfun hanging around with Russ as we combine
writing with good conversation, good food, maybe glass of wine or two,
and mostly I learned stuff. ButI thought, well, you know,
I'm going to jump in on thisand try not to appear any more of

(43:45):
an idiot that I normally do.And so I wound up writing the first
chapter and it's the first chapter isactually based on a true experience on mind
and but I put it in afictionalized it and then I sent it to

(44:07):
him. The deal was I wouldwrite a chapter, send it him,
he would write a chapter, andthen there'd be two chapters. Then he'd
send it to me. I wouldread what he wrote, and I'd write
a chapter, and we went backand forth. So I sent him my
chapter, he corrected all my mistakesand then wrote his chapter and sent it
to me. I couldn't find anymistakes that he wrote, and so now

(44:27):
I'm writing chapter three, and sowhat do We had twenty five chapters in
this book or something, and bythe time we got finished, it was
it was an interesting journey. Itwas a thriller, a thriller minute thing,
because there's a lot of action adventure. There's there's a there's a there's
a some female intrigue in there,and outlaws lost silver mine and they're riding

(44:57):
across Texas and it was it wasa great It was a great wrong.
I learned enough about writing fiction tothink that I wanted to do more of
this, and I'm actually trying.I've had a little downtime right now in
between other book contracts, and soI'm going to try to write another novel

(45:19):
just based on the inspiration of workon this one. Well, and I'll
say that fiction, a book likethis is a bit like the opposite of
life. In life, if youhave a problem or a situation, most
of us will sit down and say, I got to fix this. You
know what can I common sensely dowith my abilities to make this resolve itself.
Fiction is the opposite, because nomatter what you do, how moralier

(45:44):
ethically right, your decision is,it's going to go wrong because you've got
to go on and on or you'vegot a short story, right, so
it's got to get worse and worse, you know, and more concluded and
compounded. So we both in thiskind of a twister across Texas mentality.
Just let it ride out to allit's twists and turns. It sounds awesome,

(46:05):
and everything in this book could haveactually happened. I mean maybe fa
to the point where it was.It wasn't science fiction, It wasn't outrageous
or anything like that. Everything thisbook actually could have happened. And there
was some good relationships there were.There were the two partners and then then
the female who became part of thewhole, part of the whole thing.
Some some it would probably make agood movie. Yeah, yeah, it

(46:29):
met Hollywood's a obligatory romance rule.Awesome. You know, well, right
now we're going to open it upfor their audience for them to ask some
questions. We know that you guyshave worked on so many different projects,
and I you know, before weend this, I definitely want to find

(46:50):
out some things about your new sciencefiction work. Right now, we're going
to turn over to the audience tosee what questions that they have, and
you guys will talk to his Mikeso we could listen to your question.
Does anyone have a question for thesegentlemen? Go ahead? And I hope

(47:14):
this hasn't answered nothing from okay,so have you all and I hope I
didn't miss this. Have you allmentioned how you met one another? How
did you all start working together?Well, we met in a bar.

(47:37):
I was gonna I was gonna givethe Rosie Glasses version, but the we
have a mutual friend Mike Blakely,who's who used to live in Marble Falls
with me and and and uh wewere at the same gym and and we
wrote. And so I went tothe uh West Western Writers of America thing
where he was ahead of the judgesand things and andung out and uh uh

(48:02):
w C was down doing music withMike and doing different venues because the river
girl near me, uh w Cwas there all the time, and he
just was one of the gang.And uh we just enjoyed each other's company
and uh uh we traded lies andhad a good time. Sounds like relationship.

(48:24):
Those were lies. I didn't.I didn't mention anyone in your collaboration
of the book you both wrote together. Yeah, Wissouri, did you have
to? I mean, I'm assumingthat you each had your own style.

(48:47):
How did you combine that style,the two different styles to tell the story?
Can I answer them? Uh,we do have two different styles.
But but we we ironed it andwe tried to make it, uh seamless.
Okay, this this has been done. There. There are two of

(49:09):
my favorite authors, In fact,I just got through reading one of their
novels is Uh, Doug Preston andLincoln Child, who write some New York
Times bestsellers. These are two guys. One lives in Connecticut and one lives
in Santa Fe. And they dothis, they write one will write a
chapter and email it to him.Yeah, but they make it. They

(49:30):
make it work. Uh. Thereason this book worked is because of his
editing, because he has he hasconsiderably more experience than I have editing.
But but but by the time wegot finished, he went through there probably
two or three times. Correct meif I'm misrepresenting. He went he went
through it about two or three times, and he smoothed things out, transitions

(49:53):
and things like that, to thepoint where it wasn't all that clear that
it was two different people with twodifferent styles writing this thing. So he
cleaned it up. Yeah, hecleaned it up nicely. Thank you.
Do you have anyone questions? SoI have a question. See sure,

(50:15):
at least I expect when we firststarted writing, you didn't have computers.
It wasn't as seamless to transfer thingsaround and back and forth. So were
you a typewriter initially or hand written? And now what's your what's your preference

(50:35):
in terms of you know me,do you do it outline cats, some
characters and then you make it allput together? What's kind of your I
think we just made it up aswe went along. Yeah, my rule.
And there are people who outline,and I've always suspected they can get
a little formulaic, because you knowit is I need peaks and valleys about

(50:57):
now. I need to have somethinghappening like this, and I don't do
that. I try to paint myselfinto a corner I can't get out of,
and then somehow get out of it. Sometimes I have to have a
dream and say, oh, that'swhat's going to happen. And as things
evolve. It's like I say,it's got to get harder and harder,
and things you work out through that, you know, you do the impossible
sometimes and that makes it more interestbecause if I don't know how it's going

(51:21):
to end, you won't and that'skind of helps with a mystery in particular.
So it's my policy not to necessarilyout and I have to envision it
comes alive in my head. Imean, the characters are talking to me
and I'll be driving along and say, I wouldn't have said it that way,
So I'm pulling over and writing downlike how they would have said it,
you know. And it's I thinkthat level of obstation helps that way

(51:44):
with history that he does. Youjust have to know it and then create
it so it comes to life inyour head, you know, whereas with
the fiction, I want it tobe a little more spontaneous to where and
that helped with us doing each backbecause we got surprised, you know,
and I'd send a chapter back andmaybe we were all from the point of
view of the Kyle and the Comanche, maybe, you know, when we
had all these things in there.So then he'd come over that and we'd

(52:07):
be off and we had the Elopeand couple, uh so an a posse
after them. So it was itwas a it was a venture that way,
and in all of my books,I mean, I want to be
as surprised as the reader. Iknow a lot of a lot of novelists,
but I don't. I don't.I don't know any that actually outlined.
Uh. A few that are sortof O. C. D.

(52:30):
John Cooking one, he would outlineeverything precisely. I make up outlines,
even with with my nonfiction stuff.I started out with an outline because there
is a there is a it's partof the process, and there's a there's
a flow there. And then Iignore it simply because as I as I
get into the writing, things happenthat are going to change that outline.

(52:52):
And a lot of people say,well, you know that it's a rule
you need to have an outline.Uh. There are a lot of people
to come up and remind me ofall these rules writing. There are rules
related to grammar, there are rulesrelated to punctuation, but I'm not sure
there are any rules related to writing. He is right, And you know
part of this is, you know, when we're getting a chapter. Mostly

(53:13):
it was just getting it down.Get that chapter down, then we'll clean
it up later. But just getthe ideas down, the flow, the
momentum, the energy, and uhthen we'll clean up all of that stuff
uh later. We didn't have anychapters that drag though. I mean,
it was all we all. Eachtime we got our hands on it,

(53:36):
we wanted to pep it up tothe next level and the next level.
So it kind of grew. Andthat's kind of that's kind of way it
should work in a way. Butand make things hard for the other person.
Russ would send me a chapter andit would would be full of tension
and intrigue and everything and that,dang it. Now I've got to go
one better. And so that thatthat are good at that that can be

(54:01):
good, that can be good?Well, he brought out the strengthen in
each with an end. So dowe have any other questions? And you
guys are easy. I've got aquestion for Ei there, what part of
Texas and what part of Texas wouldyou go to to explore? And for

(54:30):
someone that's you know, just lookingto be outside in Texas learns in Texas
history and maybe some more across them, I would uh, Texas of all
of the fifty states, we stilljust have fifty states. I don't get

(54:51):
out much. Texas probably has moreLost Minds and Buried Treasures, I would
say, than in any other state. It's almost like a country in itself.
When we started doing these Lost Mindsand Buried Treasure books, the publisher
wanted region the first. The firstbook was Lost Minds and Very or Ury

(55:12):
Treasures of the American Southwest, Okay, so we had all the southwesterns.
Then we did the appellationis the Ozarks. Uh, And I argued, I
said, you know what, Texasis actually a region. It's it's actually
a region. At one time itwas its own country. And so I
argued that we do a book onTexas completely, and it's it's one of

(55:34):
the best selling of that whole thatwhole series. But I would say,
and this isn't a pitch or anything, get the bury Treasures of Texas book
and you'll you'll read about lost mindsand buried treasures all around the state.
Pick one. And and I've hadpeople using my books because they know I
do the research, they know Ido the investigation. They'll use my books

(55:57):
sometimes as a starting point. Andthen they'll go a few steps further.
And we have had people actually findstuff based on what, you know,
what they got started on with mybook. In one case, when I
was writing about a buried Confederate treasuretreasure in the in North Carolina, I

(56:19):
communicated with some guy that wanted meto share my information and stuff like that,
and I shared what little I hadthen also made some suggestions and everything
else, and anyway, he wentapplied himself and he found this was portions
of the Confederate Treasury that were buriedin multiple different locations along the side of

(56:43):
a railroad track. He found sixof them, and these were cook pots
filled with gold coins part of theConfederate Treasury. And he sent me a
what he called a gratitude check forhelping him out that I was happy,
happy to cash. So it happensthis has happened to me on at least

(57:07):
I think I've got this right onat least six different occasions that people using
my books have found stuff. Andthen other stuff that I've written about that
I have found other people have goneinto the places that I've written about and
they have gleaned even more stuff.Where I've been it was still is awesome.

(57:32):
That's absolutely amazing. You know.I think in the book of the
Love and Pirates it has a lotof treasure hunting adventures, mystery. How
do you come up with the ideaof the process of building your characters.

(57:59):
Do you you write the story firstor do you have in mind the characters
first? Well, I always startalmost every book with a moment of tension,
and a moment of tension reveals alot about character, and that gives
me my first blueprint or what kindof person this is? How do they
rise above that particular situation, howdo they get through it? And if

(58:22):
you remember the first chapter, he'sgot some bullies picking on him, and
then and how does he get throughit? He shows his character and as
I watch him in action in myhead like it's a movie, I put
that down so you can feel itand see it in your head. And
as that happens, that character evolves. And there got to be people I'd
like to be around. I wantmy character has to be likable, yet

(58:45):
it can be tough or she inthis case, because she's pretty tough too
in them, but and the dogwas pretty tough. The dog is very
tough, and I liked his roleas a protector, you know, and
the characters Hardy and Ivy, theywere a team and you were often stumbled

(59:10):
as far as trying to find outthe outcome before you read it. You
had to actually read it to seethe outcome. You couldn't guess it.
And that's another thing that I reallyliked, the element of surprise. Thought
it well. And in the firsthe's trying to distance himself from Ivy because
he he's not he's not coming froma family of money, and she is.

(59:31):
She her dad owns a yacht,he cleans, and and he doesn't
necessarily feel inferior, but he justdoesn't want to start something like that,
and she kind of works around that. She did. She did. She
did a really good job that AndI want to go ahead and just ask
some questions as far as we know, WC that you did some work on

(59:54):
National Treasure. Tell us about thatand what that experience was like. She's
talking about the movie National Treasure thatstarred Nicholas Cage. I got a call
from Jerry Bruckheimer's he was the producerhis studio basically it was the Disney Studios.

(01:00:15):
He was the producer and they askedme if I would be willing to
look at this script and do anevaluation relative to if it would work or
not. And my first response waswhy did you Why are you calling me?

(01:00:39):
Because maybe telling you more than youreally want to know. I said,
how did you get my name?And she said, well, we
talked to some other professional treasure huntersand they said you're the one that we
need to talk to. And Ithought, well, crap, that's a

(01:00:59):
night How about that, I said, And I declined at first. And
the reason is, as a professionaltreasure hunter, it's not in my best
interest for people to know who Iam and what I do because pretty much
everything I do is illegal. Wow, if you find a lost treasure,

(01:01:25):
let's say in Texas, there isa salvage and salvage and recovery law in
Texas which covers lost treasure. Itvaries from place to place, but they're
similar. If you find something thatis over fifty years old, which most
buried treasure is, it is declaredby state law an historical artifact and becomes

(01:01:51):
the property of the state. Well, the state didn't help me with my
research, they didn't fund my expedition, they didn't take any of the risks.
They didn't help me recover, theydidn't do anything else, but now
they want me to turn it overto them. And uh, I have
a problem with this. The lawsis this is this being taped. The

(01:02:14):
laws are absurd. The laws Uhturn well meaning serious researching and and and
and and and working treasure hunters intooutlaws. Uh So when I recover something,
UH, I hesitate about sharing itwith people that didn't didn't help me,

(01:02:35):
and I don't I do share whatI find. I've given away a
lot of a lot of stuff overthe over the years, but uh,
this imbalance bothers me. Anyway,I explained this to the to the to
the the very charming lady that wastalking to me, but she she convinced
me that I needed to do this, and they I was living in Woodland

(01:02:57):
Park, Colorado at the time,and she said, we're going to book
a flight and we'll be there inthe morning at nine o'clock at your house.
And sure enough, at nine o'clockin the morning, they were there.
It was the associate producer, acameraman, and a lighting per lighting
sound person, and so we didsome discussion and some stuff. We went

(01:03:21):
out to a ranch, and wedid a kind of a little silly reenactment.
This is all, by the way, if you have the DVD of
the National Treasure, there's a whatdo they call it, a special features
thing that where this interview is onthere, this little silly reenactment. Treasure
recovery has changed quite a bit sinceI started. I still pursue the quest

(01:03:44):
much like I did forty years ago. I reveled in going out into the
field in searching. Others tend tobe more high tech oriented, and we
have at our disposal these days alot of technology, including sonar and precise
metal detection for what we look for, that is the buried treasure, the
hidden caches. We found these toolsnot to be that useful to us.

(01:04:06):
Most of what we looked for ishidden so well that metal detectors don't reach
it. It's basically the doged workin the field, which is what we
love. And tide the animals tothat tree over there, and then we
can do the rest of it onfoot. For a young person interested in
treasure hunting as a way of life, you have to understand that a great
deal of this involves research. Probablyninety percent of any hunt involves research in

(01:04:28):
the libraries, studying topographic maps,geologic maps, to try to get some
feeling for what you're up against.We have come to appreciate the history to
the point where we chase down thehistory with the same energy that we chase
down the treasure. And then wemet in Nevada in the desert where they
did some more interviewing. Anyway,I agreed to do it against my will,

(01:04:57):
but it turned out to be kindof fun. I really like these
people, and so the movie cameout. The movie came out. When
I evaluated the script, I said, the script is ridiculous, but it's
really really fun. Because the timelinewas constricted to like what twelve or eighteen
hours or something like that, andthis whole thing would have taken years to

(01:05:18):
materialize. I said, this isnuts, but boy is it ever fun.
And plus I like Nicholas Cage,so I didn't have anything major against
it. So the movie came out. It was number one, and they
wanted to put all this interview stuffon the special features thing. And the
interesting thing was to me, afterthe movie came out, publishers contacted me
and they said, can you doa book for us on the famous these

(01:05:43):
treasures related to American history, likeon National Treasure. And I said that
made that wasn't real, and theysaid they didn't care, and I said,
well, I don't, you know. I do the legend, the
the stories and other things, andI treat them with respect as history and

(01:06:05):
try to. And so anyway,I wound up doing a book. You've
got it over there. It's calledLost Treasures, Lost Treasures in American History,
and it wound up being a regionalbest seller whatever that means. And
when the book came out. Thisis, by the way, two of
the stories out of this book,the treasures were found as a result of

(01:06:29):
people reading the book and going everyone of them is in South Texas.
The treasure hasn't been recovered. Theyfound where it is, but it's it's
a logistical nightmare. And the otherone was in Vermont somewhere, I think.
And because of all of the publicityrelative to the movie and then people
finding these these treasures and things likethat, I had more publishers contact me,

(01:06:54):
and then TV people wanting me tobe a part and parcel of series
and documentaries and things related to LostMinds in Bury Treasure and so when I
get on TV talking about something likethis and my name is on there,
and after the TV appearance, thebook sales spike and everything. Publishers notice
this, So even more publishers comeand say, we want to get in

(01:07:16):
on this, Will you do abook for us? And so I don't
even like doing TV. I gotto tell you, I don't like I
don't like doing those shows. Idon't watch those shows. When I do
get to see one that I'm on, I'm usually appalled at what I see.
I just don't like them because they'resomewhat superficial. But I do cash

(01:07:38):
their checks, and I do appreciatethe fact that those propel the book sales,
which then propels more TV, whichpropels It's just a vicious circle that
I'm happy to be part of.Quite frankly, well, you do a
good job at it, and wejust want to say thank you. Did

(01:07:59):
you guys have any other questions you'dlike to ask? Question? Yes,
sir, and where is that located? Arizona Superstition Mountains, Arizona. Yeah,

(01:08:19):
just briefly. So much has beenwritten about that. It's hard to
separate the the the reality from theyou know, men do this every time
a story is told, and thesestory has been told for the last couple
hundred years. Every time the storyis told, it's told maybe a little
bit better than it was the lasttime, and so by the time it
gets the present day, it's hardto tell what really happened. It's not

(01:08:45):
so much that that mine is lost. The mine was probably played out,
and a lot of the gold thatwas taken from that mine you can find
gold in the Superstition Mountains. Butthe gold that was taken, a lot
of the gold that was taken fromthat mine, it was packed into leather
packs and loaded onto about eighteen mulesor burrows, and it was being carried
out of the Superstition Mountains when itwas attacked by Indians. The Indians didn't

(01:09:10):
care anything about the gold. Theywanted the mules, and they didn't they
resented the intrusion in their territory,so they cut the bags of gold nuggets
off of the mules, slash thebags. And this was in a stream
bed that this happened, and soall of these nuggets fell into the stream
bed. You can go to thatstream today and you can actually pan those
nuggets out of that stream. That'swhere the gold is. Wow, that's

(01:09:33):
amazing. We're getting ready to wrapit up. But I'd like to ask
on your science fiction works to giveus an example of each book that you've
written for your science fiction work.Well, the one over there is Inside
Jupiter, and I was in thedentist's office having the usual apprehension about that,

(01:09:56):
and I was looking out the windowat the parking lot, and I
got thinking, what would it belike if there was a butterfly so big
that it could pick up a carand crush it like a paper cup.
And it occurred to me that Icould build a whole planet like that,
And so I just took off ofthese kids who end up inside, And
no one in the book is overeighteen. I think the heroes are like
twelve and fourteen. And they getinside Jupiter and the insects have become huge.

(01:10:24):
You've got praying mass as big asgiraffes and all kinds of things,
and most of the things want toeat you, and there's a lot of
rivalry because they're the new kids inthere. And so I then I have
more serious that will come out.There's the spider Wars and the invisible spiders
that come swing in on you.Well, we look forward to that.

(01:10:46):
N WC. Do you have yourscience fiction information. I don't write science
fiction. I don't even read sciencefiction. I have enough keeping up with
what I'm already doing. Well,it's it's absolutely it's like anything else when
you research it. I didn't thereis as far as I know, there

(01:11:09):
is no insight of Jupiter. ButI made it so that you could go
through the dark spot and get inthere, and there was a whole world
with artificial light that could be there. And as I did this, it's
based on scientific fact that if itwere true, this would be how it
would be. So I'm sure JulesVernon all these folks had things like that
going on. But you can.It's kind of unlimiteds. You can even

(01:11:30):
make a world entirely with its ownrules. So that was the fun part.
Thank you. Well, we're goingto end this and we just want
to say thank you so much foryour time, and we just want to
say thank you Guysis to Do this, Elizabeth Colvin was Single to Do.

(01:11:59):
Thank you for listening to our podcasts, and we just want to say thank
you to our Single to Do team, the city of Laga Vista our Bishop's
Committee, Sumner's Productions, all writersaround the world. We wish you peace,
love and tranquility. Remember to likeand share. Have a great day.