Best practices for Studio Owners with Lauren of Sky High Studios

Pole on the Call Podcast — Season 4
Best Practices for Pole Studio Owners, with Lauren of Sky High Studios

In this episode, Cris Rivers & Mændy Mac interview Lauren, Owner of Sky High Studios in MA in this special second interview to complete part 2 of our Best Practice series when the topic is about Pole Studio Owners.

DISCLAIMER:
I am not a Legal/Financial/HR Professional. You should consult one before making any changes to your business. All the information I have has been learned through research required to conduct my own business and to correct mistakes I’ve made. The purpose is not to scare other business owners, but to educate to strengthen the pole industry as a whole.

Things every employee should remember:
Pole is a largely unregulated industry and is generally lumped in with gyms/fitness centers when it comes to industry classifications. Most business owners are just trying to do their best. We usually have to be all things to our business and can’t know everything all the time. Have empathy and try to work with your studio as much as possible to resolve questions and issues. All fields have business owners who do shady shit. Be as knowledgeable as you can to protect yourself (regardless of any job you have).

Helpful Documents & Checklists for Pole Teachers & Studio Owners: https://drive.google.com/drive...

BIO:
I’m Lauren and owner of Sky High Studios. I opened the studio in 2013 to provide a safe and supportive environment for those who wanted to experience pole dance.

I started in 2010 after a long illness and I needed something that wasn’t the gym to help me regain strength and confidence in myself. I found that not only through pole dance, but through the people I met, many to this day who are still my closest friends. I started teaching in 2011 and decided to open my own studio with the vision to offer people the same life changing experience I had.

Today, my favorite pole things are rolling around on the floor, telling people they need more booty into their pole moves, and breaking movements down to small bits that help people gain strength and confidence in their movement. And freestyling. Did I mention more booty? I believe that everyone has in them an authentic, expressive self, and I want to help every student find that within.

LINKS:
Instagram @lilykingpole & @skyhighstudios


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, hey, hey, we are back. We are pulling the
call with a whole new episode. I am Chris Rivers
and I'm Mandy beck Yay, and we are here with
Lauren of Sky High Studios talking about best practices for
the studio.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yes, thank you so much Lauren for being here with
us today again. We had you for a wonderful episode
previously where we talked about best practices for poll teachers,
and now we're super excited to learn all we can
from you about studio best practices for pole studios.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate you
having me back, and I'm glad the information was the
first from the first one was helpful and I hope
that the information firm this one is also helpful for people.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
So yes, yes, looking at the outline, it is going
to be very helpful.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Good. I'm glad.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Right, And just as from last time, and none of
us are legal professionals. This information mostly pertains to us
locally in Massachusetts as well, so you should always make
sure that you consult a legal professional in your area
to find out if the best practices are the same.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yes, yes, so always get the information from people who
are actually licensed to give you the correct information. So
most of what I have today is just stuff that's
based off of my experience, the information I've gotten from
my legal and HR professionals, and all of it is

(01:41):
pertaining to the state of Massachusetts. So if you're in
another state, definitely find somebody who can give you the
right advice for your area and your local government.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Speak.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Of course a podcast is meant to inspire, So if
you are looking to open a studio, this is the
podcast to listen to.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yes, and if you are a studio owner, hopefully the
information will kind of clear up some gray areas or
kind of help you lead kind of lead you in
the right direction on how to have those conversations with
your staff about kind of why you're doing the things
that you're doing.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Alrighty, I'm excited. So let's dive into this with the
first I guess how do I make this into a question.
Let's start with what are some things that employees should
remember when going into a post studio environment.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
So, as you know, even though this this particular episode
mostly pertains to studio owners, there are some things that
the employees should remember. If you're if you're a pole
instructor and you're watching this too. I think it's helpful.
Information is helpful for instructors as well. So you know,

(03:04):
remember that you know as an instructor that the pole
industry is still largely unregulated. We kind of talked about
that last time, and so most owners are doing things
the way that they think that they should be done
or the way that they know other pole studio owners

(03:26):
have done things, so they're making that assumption. So there's
just no way that we can know everything about everything
and do things right one percent of the time. So
we're usually operating with good intentions. We're operating under good
faith that we're doing things the right way, so even

(03:49):
if our execution isn't totally correct, so keep that in mind.
We really are as owners, I think I think ninety
nine percent of owners anyway, are just trying to do
their best, and we're trying to run a good business,
and we have a lot to balance, and we have

(04:12):
to consider a lot of factors when it comes to
the decisions we make around our staff that you, as
the instructor, aren't privy too. So if you have questions
or concerns after listening to this, or just in general,
you know, approach your your studio owner or manager with

(04:34):
an open mind and have patients and empathy for the
way that they're making decisions. And then, last, but not
at least, our businesses are ultimately our own as owners,
and this we're making decisions that we think are the

(04:58):
best for our business. You know, this is our livelihood.
This is something that we feel really passionate about. Most
of us are not making bad decisions just to be
bad owners. And in the end, if you don't agree
with the decisions that the studio owner is making, then

(05:20):
you have the choice to not be there. I know
that's kind of an extreme thing to remember, but you know,
we never want to lose good staff. We're always happy
and appreciative of the instructors that we have, but we
have to make the decisions that we feel are in
our best interest, in the best interest of our business.

(05:41):
And you know, I think as an owner you need
to be willing to listen to your staff, but I'm
still going to make the decisions that I think are
best and as my staff member, you can come along
for the ride with that, or you don't have to
be there. If being there makes you uncomfortable, then you

(06:04):
have the ability to make different choices as well, So
communicate and compromise as much as you can first, but
we have the final say as owners, and you need
to be okay with that. So I think those are
good things for employees and instructors to keep in mind

(06:27):
when they are communicating with their owners about decisions surrounding pay,
classification in those kinds of issues.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Right, there's a rhyme or reason. Yes, right, it might
not always be really evident, but sometimes it's like something
we've learned over time, or yeah, just the reasons why
we do things studio owners.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yes, yep, Yeah, I like how you bring.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Up that you should also be open to change as well,
because things should change over time and you should always
be listening to your staff.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yes, And I think as owners, you know this is
we'll kind of get into this a little bit more later,
but I mean, I think as an owner, when it
comes to people's pay, you need to you need to
listen to people. That doesn't mean that I'm going to

(07:34):
make I'm going to change what I'm doing because somebody
has a concern, But when it comes to people's pay,
you have to have open communication about that and you
have to be able to justify why you're doing what
you're doing. You have to be transparent with them, and

(07:59):
you're logic has to make sense, and if it doesn't,
it's gonna make your staff uncomfortable, and it's just gonna
create it's gonna it's gonna limit and restrict like the
lines of communication that you have. And they might not
always like the answer, but at least you can give

(08:21):
give your logic behind that and give them and they
don't need to know all the details of your business
and all of the reasons why you make your decisions.
But shutting down any communication is a sure fireway to
immediately create some tension and suspicion between you and your staff.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
So many choices to think about. Yeah, I appreciate how
you mentioned that why there should be open communication. It
is also the studio owner or the business owner's business
and ultimately it is their decision. Speaking of decisions and choices,
can you go into a little bit about w about

(09:07):
studio owners' choices of having W two employees or W
nine independent contractors?

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yes? So, so really the choice in terms of pay classification.
You know, most studio owners don't kind of think beyond
their own studio in terms of why these decisions matter,
but it does play a part in the bigger picture

(09:36):
of the industry overall, mostly because this is going like
our decisions as a whole create trust and credibility between
us and our staff and us and our clientele. So

(09:57):
I need to make sure that that I am making
a logical and ethical decision, weighing in all of the
benefits and the risk factors, because the way that I
do things and how I communicate with my staff about

(10:20):
that is one going to impact the staff morale and
my relationship with my staff. If they don't trust me,
and if they don't trust that I'm doing things correctly
and that I'm doing things in an ethical manner, then
I've lost all control over my staff from the get go,

(10:46):
and my staff or my primary go betweens between myself
and my clients, at least for me, because I don't
teach as much as I used to. But if I
have an unhappy staff and a staff that doesn't trust me,
then that is going to leak into the rest of

(11:07):
the studio. So from an immediate point of view, you
want to be making the decisions about your staff's pay,
and you want to be communicating with them about it
in a way that fosters trust. So that's the first thing.

(11:28):
Beyond that for the industry as a whole, like pole
is really small. There's only I don't know, in Massachusetts,
we maybe have a total of twelve, maybe ten studios,
So that's not a lot if you count central Massachusetts,

(11:54):
the Boston area, the Cape, and western Massachusetts. So it's
not hard to hear about how other businesses are conducting themselves.
And if I'm doing something that is unethical, one, it's

(12:16):
gonna ruin my credibility with other studios, all right, And
not that we necessarily have really strong bonds as owners,
but there are studios that I will recommend students to
based on their needs because I know of the owners

(12:36):
and I know that they are you know, ethical business owners,
and so I'm willing to refer people to them. If
my staff moves, I'd be willing to move my staff
over there, like recommend my staff to them. So the
exchange of ideas and personnel and clients matter, and it

(13:03):
keeps it keeps the industry as a whole ethical. So
that's step one or part two, I guess if we
go from immediate to kind of more outreach. And the
last thing is is that when you do things that
are an ethical, students find out about it. I mean

(13:25):
they know, they know whether you're an ethical business or not.
They're going to see a turnover and a lot of staff,
They're going to see inconsistency in your services. They're like,
those things are noticeable. And if we lose clients because
our clients are having bad experiences or because they're hearing
stuff from staff members or whatever it is, then it

(13:46):
hurts our business as a whole because that person probably
isn't willing to try at another place because they're making
an assumption that you know, well, this was a crappy
studio and I wasted my money. Now I don't want
to go somewhere else. So so all of that, even

(14:09):
though like just paying your instructors the way that you
should doesn't seem to have like a huge overreaching impact,
but it does. It really does. And there are plenty
of examples. I've been open this is now eleven and
a half years. There have been plenty of examples of
studios that have gone out of business, you know, or

(14:33):
have lost credibility because of the way that they treat
their instructors, and some of them are still around, but
you know, have had some issues, and there are some
that are not around it all anymore simply because people
knew and they refuse to work. There can't be in
business if you don't have staff. So I know that

(14:56):
was kind of a long winded answer to why these
choices matten better, but they really do. And I think
as owners we have to sometimes go outside of ourselves
and realize that the decisions we make in our tiny
studios do have consequences that are larger than our own business,

(15:18):
and we just have to be aware of that.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
It's true what you said, because we see it all
the time, incredible instructors who have something happened in a
studio and step back from teaching just out of it.
So you're right. It does carry over into the industry.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Unfortunately, and luckily, there are fewer examples of this, I
would say, in the last you know, three to four
years than there were when Pole was kind of in
its infancy, for lack of a better phrase, I guess,
but you know, when I opened, there weren't very many people,

(15:59):
so it is even more important you know that you
make the right choices because the industry was even smaller
than it is today. So you know, so the better,
the better choices we can make as an industry, and
the more ethical we can be as an industry, The

(16:22):
more confidence we have in staff, the better talent we're
going to get. And the more talent you have and
the more talent you can keep, the better your studio
is going to do.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Right, I think too, like when it comes to like
your students or your teachers, Like your students may have
like a bad experience, like they're not going to stick
around for a little while, but the teachers will put
up with some stuff before they you know, sound off
about it. Yeah, there are so many opportunities to.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
And it's that they will. And you're right, like they
do that because they love what they do and they
love their students. I the same thing happened to me.
I stayed way longer at the studio I was originally
at before I opened, because I didn't I loved what
I did and I didn't want to leave my students.
But when when you fuck with people's pay, I hope

(17:27):
I can swear in your podcast, I apologize. But when
you do that, you know, and you don't treat your
staff and you don't appreciate them, and you those things
will burn your staff out really fast, and there's gonna
be a limit. There's only so much they're gonna put
up with. But you know, the more, in my experience,

(17:54):
the more you can. The easiest way to show your
staff that you appreciate them to just do the things
you're supposed to do, like just that's it, and then
they have confidence in the fact that you know, I
don't do everything perfectly. My staff has to remind me
of things like sometimes multiple times, you know, just things

(18:20):
with schedule changes, like I've got a lot going on,
but I make sure that when it comes to their paychecks,
I'm doing the right things and I'm doing it on time,
and that alone will get your staff to go okay, like,
I know she's overwhelmed, but I'm still getting my paycheck.
So let me like float along with this boat here

(18:45):
and eventually, like everything else will come in. So you
don't have to be perfect. You just have to, when
it comes to their pay do what you're supposed to do,
and that starts with paying them. So cause unfortunately that
has been a scenario where staff hadn't been paid. So
regardless of the rest of this podcast or how you

(19:05):
choose to pay them, just make sure that you actually
pay them. And that should not have to be a
thing that I have to say, but it is a
thing that's happened.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
So each studio time is not payment. I agree with you.
I've heard their payment is like to use the studio
for free. I'm like, oh my goodness, how do you
do it?

Speaker 3 (19:25):
But yes, now, well, and that's and that's an interesting
point and this will kind of like lead into some
of the other things that we do. But just the
heads up, if you're a business in Massachusetts, can't barter
like that's like a number one like thing that you
cannot do like Massachusetts does not recognize barter agreements. So

(19:49):
tidbit for some of your research as a as an
owner when you're looking at ways to do things, doesn't count.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
You can't escape capitalism yet yep, but in the future.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yes, So, I mean it's a nice way. And you know,
PEP students, it's they I've had students say like, I'll
just work the front desk. You know, I love it here,
and you know that can't do that. So that's just
one thing that I've I've had to tell them is
thank you very much, but like legally I can't, that's
not a thing. So but thank you for your enthusiasm

(20:32):
and if a position opens up, I'll let you know.
So so that that being said, any other questions on
kind of my point of view.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
On that, No, but that's definitely happened to me too.
People have offered to yeah to like clean and stuff
like that. But like that makes me feel bad too,
because I feel like everyone should be paid to be paid.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, well, and they should, and that's the that's the
state's point of view as well, that if you do
work of any kind, then you need to be paid
for it.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, right, you know.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
And as a business owner, I will say this, as
flattering as it is, I would not recommend that just
on principle because those students in general are enthusiastic, but
you kind of lose a little bit of control over

(21:38):
them as an employee, right because there's a barter agreement
in place. But now they really are an employee, you know,
so you have to treat them like any other employee,
and there eventually becomes like a you leave yourself open

(21:58):
for the possibility of Razienno, because either one that person
isn't going to do the job that you want them
to do, and now you have to cancel that barter
agreement and they're going to be upset, or they're going
to assume that they're working for free and they're going
to take advantage of the situation. And that doesn't happen

(22:20):
all the time, but those are what you're leaving yourself
open to. And it's better in general to just keep
the student and then and pay an employee. And then
if that relationship terminates for any reason, then you've done
every At least you can look at yourself in the
mirror because you did everything you were supposed to do.

(22:43):
And so that's my best advice on you know, if
you're considering doing that, just be aware that those are
some of the things that can happen.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Interesting things to note.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yes, So so with that talking about other kinds of
ways to pay, do you guys want me to just
review from the last time kind of what the difference
between the W two and the W nine is? Okay,
all right, just so that everybody kind of jogs their memory.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
I'm sorry, I mute, I'm muted, Okay.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
I think that's all right, you need to go mute myself.
That's okay, so my I'm going According to the Massachusetts website,
so the state of Massachusetts has a three point test
to decide whether or not somebody is a W nine.
So in order to qualify for a W nine, which

(23:56):
is the independent contractor, the first one is control, so
independent contractors are free from control or direction in connection
with the performance of the service. So they're basically they're
coming in, they're doing a thing, you're paying for it.
You get what you get. Number two is the course

(24:18):
of business that services that are being offered by the
independent contractor. Those services provided are outside the normal course
of business for whatever classes your studio is offering. So
for example, I don't normally run zoomba classes. If I
had somebody that came in and said, hey, I want

(24:39):
to teach a zoomba class once a week, well that's
not something I'm going to offer by myself. So and
I'm only having that service as long as that person
is providing it, so that would be somebody who's I
could hire them as an independent contractor. And then the
last one is independent business, so contractors are not solely

(25:02):
reliable on this job as their main source of income,
and they have an existing separate business in the same field. So,
for example, that Zooma instructor is teaching Zoomba classes at
multiple studios, she's not dependent on my studio for her

(25:24):
whole income, and she's not only teaching that at my studio.
So those are the three points that Massachusetts that you
have to hit in order to be considered an independent contractor.
Everybody else Massachusetts assumes that everybody else is a W

(25:44):
two regularly paid employee. So in terms of us for
studio owners, that means very different things because we have
to decide how are we going to pay those people?
All right, So if the person does not qualify as

(26:07):
an independent contractor and they're a regularly paid employee, that
means for me that I have control over their schedule,
I have control over their pay rate, I have control
over their job duties, et cetera. So their behavior, their demeanor,
their curriculum, all of that is determined by me. I
set all of the standards, all right. I can take

(26:31):
performance related actions, including reviews, disciplinary action, anything like that
in regards to their performance in the studio, and I
can mandate certain things with their job description, so like
staff meetings, I can require them to be at a

(26:53):
staff meeting, which I have to pay them for, because
all work that somebody who's a regularly paid employee does
has to be paid. If you're mandating it, it has
to be paid for. So what I can't demand is
that they work for free, all right. They they are

(27:16):
paid for that time. And then I also can't deny
any government mandated rights or benefits. So part time stick
pay the pfml anything that the state like workers compensation insurance,
unemployment insurance. All of those are benefits and rights that

(27:40):
the state says the employees are entitled to. So that's
for W twos, for W nine's for your independent contractors,
all right. What I can do is I can work
with them to negotiate for pay or services, because as
the independent contractor, they're going to tell me what their
normal rates are when they're available, what services they have,

(28:01):
and I can negotiate with them. And I can hire
and fire at will unless that the termination of the
contract falls under what the state would consider discriminatory. So
what I can't do is that I can't require that
they do anything for the business outside their paid services.

(28:24):
If they're coming in to teach that class, I'm paying
them to teach that class. That's it. No admin work,
no front desk stuff, no other duties, just that. And
I cannot hold them accountable for any studio policies or standards.
So like if my you know, if my policy is that,

(28:47):
you know, they have to I don't know, have a
certain demeanor or attitude. Right, everybody should be coming to
class with a good attitude as an instructor. But if
that contractor to the studio the bad attitude that day,
or they do something I don't like, I can't write
them up for it. The most I can do is

(29:08):
have a discussion with them and say, hey, that's not
what I'm looking for, So I need you to either
change that or we're going to terminate our contractor agreement.
So but I can't there's no disciplinary process for independent contractors.
And if you have a handbook, handbook doesn't apply to them.

(29:32):
So so that's why, you know, thinking about these things
that I can have control over and the things that
I can't have control over. Aside from you know, what
the state kind of tells me or my guidelines, I
have to look at those people, and if I have

(29:52):
a choice. If I have a choice, then I have
to consider what are the risks and what are the
benefits of paying people a certain way. So so for
me is that do you guys have any questions on
that before I move on to the next thing? Now, Okay, cool?

(30:13):
All right, fabulous. So that means for me as the owner,
I'm gonna I'm gonna have to kind of like look
at the different factors that are gonna help me make
that decision. So the first one is what your what's
your business type? So we kind of touched on this
last time. So a DBA, an LLC, a corporation, they

(30:38):
all kind of have different requirements. So like, for example,
I'm a corporation, so the state expects that as a corporation,
aside from myself that I have employees. If you have
a corporation and you don't have any employees, that's a
red flag to the I R S that something weird

(30:58):
is going on here. So you got to look at
your business classification and talk to an accountant and talk
to an attorney to find out like what are your options.
So because me as a corporation, I can still hire
independent contractors, I have a couple, but they teach maybe

(31:18):
four times a year. I can't put all of my
because I did this, This was my mistake. I got
some shady advice. So first of all, make sure you're
getting good advice. Talk to a good accountant and talk
to a good lawyer. Because I talked to an accountant
who gave me bad advice and was like, sure, you
can switch everybody over. I got a new accountant nine

(31:43):
months later, and she took one look at what I
was doing and she was like, hmm, nope. So I
had to switch everybody back. And that was probably about,
I don't know, eight years ago, I think maybe seven
years ago, and and that was a hard lesson to
learn and it was a huge pain in the ass.

(32:06):
So so if you're unsure, find good help. And then
the second thing is what type of studio am I
going to have? What kind of classes do I want
to offer? How many of those do I want to
teach myself? You know? How many of those do I
care about in terms of like having some control over

(32:28):
the curriculum, you know, because if you want to teach,
if you want to have flexibility, but you don't want
to teach it and you're just going to hire a
yoga class, a yoga instructor, you know, to work around
their schedule, Then yeah, that might be an option for you.
You might be able to hire that person to teach
a flexibility class and when they're available, you have it,

(32:49):
and when they're not, you don't. That's an option, all right.
And then the level of involvement or control that you
as the owner want, like do I want to have
a handbook? Do I want to hold everybody to a
specific standard? Like do I want to have control over
the curriculum. Not everybody wants the same amount of kind

(33:14):
of like control or investment in how they're kind of
doing their curriculum or their class levels, or the involvement
with the staff, you know, So you have to make
those decisions do you care do you not care? And
then lastly, what you know finances That plays a role

(33:39):
in how a lot of business owners make their decisions.
So because paying employees, like having contractors is way cheaper
than having employees. So a lot of businesses that start out,
a lot of studios that start out, they start out
with contractors because it's cheaper, you know. And I mean

(34:03):
the state wants to get their money, and so does
the federal government, so you know, and there are things
that I do believe that you as the owner should
pay into when you have staff. So I'm not begrudging that,
but you know, but having contractors is cheaper for everybody,
but it's not necessarily the best decision for for everybody.

(34:31):
So that kind of you know, for for not only owners,
but also going back to instructors, like these these are
the things that your owner thinks about all the time,
and these are decisions that they have to weigh and
they've had to look at all of those factors and

(34:53):
then decide like what is the best way to meet
their needs and to all so meet your needs as
an instructor. So so any you know, I'll just kind
of like put this out as a disclaimer, I as
a business owner, would like never generally, I don't judge

(35:16):
another studio by how they're paying their staff as long
as they're doing it ethically and with transparency, because we
all have to make the decisions that are going to
keep our businesses in business, give us peace of mind
and some semblance of work life balance, and limit the

(35:41):
amount of insanity that we have to deal with. So
every business owner has to make the decision that's right
for them, but you have to know what the consequences
of that decision are, what you legally can and cannot
do with in the choice that you've made, and then

(36:04):
you have to communicate with your staff about it and
you have to stick to it, so you know, regardless
of you know, what the state says you have to do.
You know, my hope is that everybody would would do that,

(36:26):
you know, but that's not everybody's necessarily able to do
that or knows how to make that switch or can
afford it. So you know, do with the information what
you will, but do it in good faith.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Right. Every studio is different, but yeah, definitely be transparent,
and that's.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
The biggest That's the biggest thing I think with from
the feedback that I've gotten from from instructors that work
in other places, is that there's either a lack of transparency,
there's a lack of consistency, which are not usually malicious

(37:20):
on the part of the owner. Usually that comes from
a place of insecurity and defensiveness because you know, I know,
as owners, as business owners of any kind, regardless of
your from the pole industry or not, you're under a
lot of pressure just from yourself alone and constantly questioning

(37:44):
all of the decisions that you're making on a daily basis,
and then to have somebody else question you, it's very
easy to get insecure, and it's very easy to get
defensive about that. So that a lot of that non
trans parency and the lack of communication generally comes from

(38:06):
the owner just trying to like make it through the
day and not feel questioned or criticized or whatever the
situation is. But that does create tension between the staff
and the owner. So just be aware, like if you,

(38:30):
if that's you, if you, if you are having trouble
communicating with your staff, just take a look at why
that might be and be honest with yourself about why
that is. And you want your staff to be open
to your to the way that you do things and

(38:53):
your opinion. You want them to follow you, and sometimes
that means listening to them and with an open mind
even if you don't you know, I mean I get
lots of suggestions from my staff. I mean I can't
implement all of them or do anything about a lot
of them, but sometimes just being heard is a big

(39:19):
step on the on the part of your staff. They
just want to be hurt, and I think as an owner,
like that's the least that you could do is just
hear them out and say thank you for coming to me.
I understand your concern. You know, maybe there's nothing you
can do about it, and if there is, say like

(39:40):
I understand, there's just nothing I can do about it.
That's the way that this is, you know, or say
thank you very much for that, and I'll take it
under consideration. And maybe you do, maybe you don't. But
but in other cases there are owners that do things
that really are out right illegal and that that really

(40:06):
just like sticks in my cross that that that happens.
And you, as the employee kind of in the the
part one that we had, you should know it's important
for you to be just as educated as it is
for us as owners to be just as educated. So

(40:27):
so any questions there or do you want me to
kind of move on to the the best practices part?

Speaker 2 (40:33):
No, I think that was good. I think you know,
it's really like what you're saying, it's it's great to
leave the lines of communication open. And I think that
lots of times, like teachers will feel okay to like
say when things are good, but leaving it open to
say when things are bad is even more important and

(40:58):
harder to do.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
It's very hard. I mean, I find it difficult sometimes
to even talk. Not not because you make it difficult,
but sometimes it's scary as an employee because we don't
want to ruin our relationship with you. Yeah, it's interesting.
We all have these like same fears or these same
ideas and we just got to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
We do, and I think that, I mean, the conversations
are always important to have. As the owner, I think
you have to realize that to some degree, you are
dependent on your staff, right, Like, you can't run your
studio without them, So you can't disregard their questions, their concerns,

(41:46):
you know, their fears, their suggestions, they want they they
they are teaching for you, usually because they love your
studio and they like you and they like being there.
So most instructors when they're coming to you are coming
to you out of wanting to make the place better

(42:10):
and they want to feel invested in it. They want
to feel like they're a part of it, and we
as the owners, need to be appreciative of that investment
that they're trying to make by coming to us, because
most times I do believe that that's the intention, and
that they're investing their time and their energy. You know,

(42:33):
they're feeling insecure, they might be nervous about coming to you,
and they did anyway, so you should be grateful for that. However,
on the other end, the instructor needs to realize that
it's not your business and that your input is appreciated,

(42:54):
but we're not always going to agree with you, and
you shouldn't take that personally because it really isn't a
slight against you or the suggestion. It's just that that's
not what we feel is in the best interest. And
that doesn't mean that I don't want you to come
to me in the future with comments, questions and concerns

(43:18):
about other things or revisiting this particular concern at another
point in time. But I'm just not always going to
agree with you, and it's not personal. So so keep
keep those lines of communication open as much as possible,

(43:40):
especially when it comes to their your expectations and their
their pay. Yes, all right, would you like me to
move on to the next section?

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Sure, that's sure, all right.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Okay, So this is where we kind of come into
like the actual best practices. So all that other information
kind of leads up to, like, well what do I do,
like what are my what do I actually have to
put into action for these So I and I'll be
I'll admit I had a really hard time pairing down

(44:22):
this list into like these bullet points because I do
think that there are so there are so many things
that you can do, so I try to like keep
it to like the the real essentials. All right, So
some of this we've already we've already covered. But number
one I think most important. Be honest and and ethical

(44:45):
to the best of your ability. Again, we're making the
best decisions for our business. None of us are perfect,
and we're not going to do things right one hundred
percent of the time. But as long as you're doing
things with an ethic an opened mindset, most of your
staff will be on board and they'll come along with you.

(45:08):
So be open with them, at least up to the
point that this is necessary and information for them. They
don't need to know every detail about everything, so be
open with them, listen to them, and when you have
made a mistake, correct it immediately. So I mean this

(45:28):
has happened with people's pay or their paperwork where you know,
I transposed a digit and they got paid two dollars
instead of twenty five dollars. So I'm calling my payroll
company immediately and I'm figuring out like how do I
fix that and working with the instructor and the best

(45:49):
way to make sure that they get paid all right,
So so things happen, just be honest and be ethical.
Step two, which we kind of talked about a minute ago,
was engage your employees in the process. Let them know
like why you're making certain decisions and giving them an

(46:11):
opportunity to provide feedback. So, for an example would be
there are a couple of businesses I know that, a
couple of studios that I know in the States that
and this is probably there's probably a lot of them
that pay they're all contractors, and that's fine, regardless of

(46:35):
whether or not they should be contractors. But they have
an open dialogue with their instructors about like, we're we're
paying you a contract as a contractor. Here's what we
expect you know, here's why we're choosing to pay you
that way, and they have it all laid out for

(46:55):
their staff so and they have the staff have the
opportunity to ask questions, make sure that everything is correct,
and it engages them in the process of how they're
being paid and why be able to justify your decisions.

(47:21):
All right. I this is not even in the pole industry.
And my husband works for UMass and I he comes
home and he's like, they're paying this person this way
and they're doing this thing. And I'm like, all right,
do they have a matrix with like pay rates on
them or like, you know, job tenure, or like what

(47:44):
is going on. He's like, I don't know. I think
they just roll the dice and whatever it lands on,
that's what they pay the person. Doesn't make for good
a good decision making process. So when it comes to
the classifications, your pay rates, raises, all of that kind
of stuff, you have to be able to justify your

(48:05):
decisions to your staff because if they feel like things
are wildly out of control, then it's going to cause issues,
all right. And in the state of Massachusetts this is
a new thing probably within the last two years. You
as an owner, you can't prevent your employees from talking

(48:26):
to each other about their pay. You can't stop them.
That's part of an equal opportunity measure to make sure
that there's not huge disparities between pay rates and people
that do the same job. So you have to be
able to justify your decisions to them and don't ignore

(48:50):
them or blow them off when they have questions. Talk
to them all right. Next, be clear about your expectations
and as consistent as possible. So I pay everybody as
regular employees. They have a job description that I actually
make them sign. My handbook is one hundred and eighty

(49:14):
pages like this. It's not a little It is a book.
So nobody can ever say or I shouldn't say. Ninety
nine percent of the time, people can't say I didn't
know that's what you expected of me. You have a
job description, you have a handbook. I have an operations

(49:35):
manual that has most of our operations in it, like
you guys know, So be very clear with them about
your expectations. Always get necessary things in writing. So I
like I have everybody sign like when they're being onboarded.

(49:57):
They have a pay rate classification sheet and it tells
them they're being paid as a regular employee part time.
Here's their rate, here's how often they get paid. If
there's any bonuses, or if they have multiple pay rates,
everything is in writing. And then if their pay rate changes,
there's a whole letter and a brand new sheet that

(50:18):
they get that tells them what their new rate is
when it will start, and it's like a redoing of
that original paid classification, so that everybody has that on file.
So so get everything that you need in writing. And

(50:38):
then lastly, don't fuck with people's pay, just like don't
mistakes are going to happen, right that. I've made mistakes
with pay before, but you have to take care of
it immediately. And if you continuously mask with your employees pay,

(50:58):
regardless of how you're paying them, they're not going to
want to work for you. It's going to cause a
lot of a lot of issues really fast. So just
don't fuck with it. Do what you're supposed to do.
So that's for everybody, so regardless of whether you have
regular employees or independent contractors. Those are the things like

(51:24):
best practices that everybody should do. I know that they
sound pretty common sense, but the amount of owners I've
heard about over the years who don't do those things
that seem pretty common sense, it's it's less common than
it used to be, but it's not rare and that's unfortunate.

(51:44):
So for yourself, just as an owner, those I think
are like the minimum best practices that you can do
that don't involve any additional paperwork. So for the most part,
other than the getting everything and writing. But so any

(52:07):
questions on either of those, no, okay, all right, cool,
So we'll move on to for for those of us
that have regular employees. So the first thing is educate
yourself to make sure that you know what's involved. I
didn't include this in the outline, but I think this

(52:27):
is important. You need to educate yourself on what exactly
having a W two employee means, and that's going to
take you have to invest some time as an owner
to do that. So so for me, like that means
that there are extra things that I have to have

(52:49):
my employees sign. There's documentation and like legal flyers that
I have to give my employees. There's things I have
to post, labor posters. So whatever your local government's website is, like,
we're really lucky, the mass dot gov site is actually
really good and has a lot of that stuff on there.

(53:10):
Sometimes it can be a little challenging to find but
I highly recommend using their website because they have a
lot of information on that. But you really do have
to educate yourself and make sure that you know what's involved.
So so that's the first thing. The second thing is

(53:32):
you need to have a handbook. So first of all,
if you are paying everybody as regular employees, there is
information that you legally have to give them, so you
don't have to put all of your standards and practices
into your handbook. But there are things like the non

(53:53):
harassment policy, non discrimination, the Pregnancy Fair Workers Act PFMLA,
like there's all these like how are you accruing stick time?
There's all these things that even at the bare minimum,
if all you give your staff is like the legal

(54:16):
mumbo jumbo that the state requires, then you need to
make sure that that's available workers comp unemployment, like all
of those things need to be outlined for your staff,
and above and beyond that, you should put your expectations
in there, like that's your measure of control. And you

(54:37):
can't use the handbook for one hundred percent of every situation,
but we also have a clause for that, so you know,
so your your staff, like I have how they're going
to be paid. Where do they go to get their
w twoter information? And how do they take a look
at you know, things that they've you know, their their taxes.

(54:58):
How do they change all of that information? So my
my handbook is huge because I include literally as much
as I can in it, because I would rather have
more in writing than necessary, which sometimes my lawyer doesn't
always agree with, but that's fine, So so have the handbook.

(55:23):
If you don't know where to start, go to like
legal Zoom my very first handbook I got off of
legal Zoom. It was cheap, I got it done. However,
if you have like a third party payroll company, like
if you use ADP or paychecks or like any of
the payroll companies, most of them have an HR service,

(55:48):
It's going to cost you extra to do it. But
even if you only keep it for six months to
a year to educate yourself. That's how I learned a
lot was I've had the HR division of my payroll
company for the last six years and it has saved

(56:08):
my ass more than once. I've gotten really good advice.
They have really good tools, like, for instance, my HR division,
I have a handsbook builder, I have a dedicated HR
specialist that I can talk to at any time. The
program that my handbook is in. They have toolkits for

(56:28):
hiring and termination, all of this kind of stuff. So
if you don't know where to start, find a place
like legal Zoom, because a lot of times you can
just pay per document that you want, and a lot
of times they'll have a lot of those legal things prepopulated.
Or use your HR service of your payroll company. Temporarily.

(56:51):
Mine was fabulous, so I highly recommend that as a resource,
and be be diligent about keeping up with the requirements
and the paperwork. Again with my HR division, every time
a labor poster changes, I get a labor poster in

(57:11):
the mail. Every month. I get updates about like legal
updates that for our federal and apply to the state
of mass So when the mass minimum wage goes up,
I get an email. I get emails about PFMLA, like
paperwork that my staff needs to sign, like, I get

(57:32):
reminders like don't forget the state requires that you have this,
So you know, if it can be kind of challenging
to keep up with on your own the first couple
of years. Now I kind of know what to look for,
so I don't use those resources as often because I
know where to go on the MASS website and download

(57:55):
what I need because now I've done it for so
many years in a row. So so you just got
to keep up with it. Create systems that work for
you when it comes to paying people, because not every
payroll service, unless you want to pay for all of
their services, are going to be able to do what

(58:18):
you want it to do, especially with the way that
we pay some of our people. Right So, like, for instance,
I have people that are hourly. They literally work by
the hour, so I can use I can very easily
calculate their mandated sick time because one hour equals or

(58:39):
like x amount of work hours equals x amount of
sick time hours are my classes, A one hour class
is actually equivalent to one point three hours because they're
paid ten minutes before the because they're they're paid for
that class includes ten minutes before to ten minutes after.
But I don't necessarily I don't have them clock in

(58:59):
and out for those classes. That's just assumed that that
time is there, so I have to manually calculate. I
have a whole Excel spreadsheet that manually calculates how to
convert those times those classes into the appropriate amount of
stick hours. So some payroll services can do that, some don't.

(59:21):
But you got to find a system that works for you,
because if you're paying your employees regularly, the state doesn't
really care what the system is as long as you
can justify it and you can show the records for it.
So you got to have something. So so find find
systems that work for you, all right, and show them
to your staff so that they know, like, how are

(59:44):
you actually calculating those? So, like each one of my
staff members has like their own Excel spreadsheet that I
just copy you when a new staff member comes, and
if they want to see a copy of it, then
I'll just screenshot it and I'll send it to them.
But they know how how I'm calculating that, all right. Next,

(01:00:06):
ask for help. A lot of owners don't want to
ask for help because we feel like we should be
able to do it all on our own. Also, sometimes
help is expensive. Lawyers are expensive, your accountant is expensive,
an HR professional is expensive. So but spending a little

(01:00:31):
bit of money to make sure that you have the
right things in place ultimately is going to protect you
and it's going to make your staff feel protected, and
it's going to give them more confidence in you. So
when they know that you're doing things the right way

(01:00:54):
and you're being transparent about it and you're investing in it,
then it gives them a lot more confidence in you
as an owner. The good news is is that you
usually your local chamber of Commerce or the local chapter
of your small business association has a lot of tools

(01:01:20):
and references for free that you can use to get started.
If you don't know where to go, call your local
chamber of commerce, call the local chapter of your small
business association. Usually you can make initial appointments with them
for free, and then they can either refer you to

(01:01:40):
a trusted paid resource or if they have free free services,
then they'll set you up with those as well, So
if you don't know where to go, start there. Also,
if you're in Massachusetts, I will find the link to
the web page for you after the podcast. But Massachusetts

(01:02:02):
has free legal help for small businesses. There's a line,
there's a phone number that you can call, and there's
an email address that you can call and you can
ask them for legal help. So if you're not sure
if what you're doing is correct or you have a
question on implementing something and you're not quite sure what

(01:02:23):
to do, call them. So I've used their line several
times before so and I've usually gotten good advice or
they've at least led me to resources where I could
get more information. So, if you don't live in Massachusetts,
check your state's website because chances are most states have

(01:02:43):
one that you can use all right, and then make
time to review records with your employees, like on once
every year, once every couple years, sit down with them
for thirty minutes. Review you there. You know, did everything
in your taxes stay the same? You know, here's some

(01:03:04):
paperwork that I need to update. You know, do you
have any questions on anything? No, great, It doesn't have
to be a big thing. But just giving them the
opportunity to sit down with you and make sure that
everything is up to date is good for you. But
it's also good for them because that also gives them

(01:03:26):
a chance, kind of like we talked about earlier, if
they have any concerns or if they're nervous about talking
to you about something, it gives you the opening to say,
we're here right now reviewing it. What questions do you
have I'm here for you so and I'm I'm happy too.
I think I told you in the email. I'm very

(01:03:48):
happy to send over. Like I have a checklist, so
like I have an onboarding checklist where I put in
there all of the things that I need to make
sure that I have them signed or include when they're hired.
And then I have a I forget exactly what I

(01:04:10):
named the checklist, but it's kind of like in the
first few dates, excuse me, in the first few days
of somebody's employment, what am I making sure that I'm
going over with them so that they know that they
have all of the information. And then periodically I have
a checklist that I have like once a year just
to review to make sure do I have everybody's everything

(01:04:33):
up to date? Are all of these things that are
necessary in their file? So I'm happy to share that
with you and any of the documents that are on there.
I had to make a lot of my own. I
did have some templates, but I made a lot of

(01:04:53):
my own. I'm again, I'm one of those people. I
would rather have my employees sign more stuff, but have
the stuff be beneficial, then not have anything at all.
And then we have some things that are like out
in limbo or unclear, and I don't like that, So

(01:05:15):
questions on any of that before we go on to
the W the W nine to the independent.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Contractors, you can start making money with those templates.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Oh my god, it's probably but I'm free information for
fellow pole owners I think is always a good thing.
Like none of that is proprietary, and take it and
do what you will with it, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Oh, speaking of free stuff, I wanted to mention that
the connect Team app if any small businesses are looking
for a way to connect with your team, if you
have ten or under employees or independent contractors or anyone,

(01:06:06):
you get the whole app for free, and it is
like communication. We've got our onboarding in there. There's a
whole bunch of stuff in there. So I would definitely
recommend checking that out. It's called connect Team, and like
I said, it's free if you have under ten and
under people.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
Perfect perfect, Free is always a good start. It might
not have all the features that you want all the time,
but free is always a good place to start. So yeah,
so that you know, find finding something like that that
works is going to be a huge help. So for

(01:06:52):
for that being said, if you have luckily, if you
have W nine's, there's a lot less that you have
to do, but you should still do some certain things.
So one have a contract. So if the independent contractor,
if they don't have a contract, you should have one
that you make them sign. That sets the parameters of

(01:07:16):
your arrangement. So here's what I'm paying you per class,
Here's what that class includes. Do they have a key
to your business? What access do they have outside of
doing classes? What is their workshop rate? You know, all
of those. What are the expectations? And again you have

(01:07:39):
to be careful about expectations because technically you can't hold
them to any particular expectation. But you can put in
there these are the services that we provide and that
service includes, and this is what you'll be providing us with,
all right, And then that expiration date or that contract
should have an expt date because you want to have

(01:08:02):
like a built in stop in order to review the services,
the pay all of that kind of stuff, and so
that way, if anything, you're not stuck in something if
you need to change it over time, you know, and
put in there also how are you going to handle changes?

(01:08:23):
You know, if something happens in the studio and you
can't afford to pay them that rate anymore. What do
you do? How do you handle that? How do you communicates?
All of that stuff should be in the contract, and
I recommend I would recommend getting a labor attorney to

(01:08:45):
help you with that, because there are some federal guidelines
around hiring independent contractors. So you just want to make
sure that the language that you're putting in meets federal
and state guidelines and that there's nothing else you have
to include. Because sometimes there is language and I don't
have to include it in my handbook, but I know

(01:09:07):
when I look at my handbook Builder because I get
updates every time something changes, there are there are some
things in there with contractors and there is some language
you have to put in there about discrimination things like that.
So I would definitely consult a labor attorney to help

(01:09:28):
get some help with that, and then you can change
it as necessary. So you know, be clear about your expectations.
Even though they're technically self employed. I mean, it's your business,
so you can still say, all right, here's how I
expect you to behave and the contractors either are gonna

(01:09:48):
it's it's the same with accepting a job. Right, You're
going to tell them, like, here's the services I want
to have, and those services include, you know, being nice
to my students, like teaching them level appropriate stuff, you
know what I mean, Like stuff that you shouldn't have
to say, but you kind of have to put in

(01:10:09):
there anyway, Right, because if I'm hiring an electrician, I'm
hiring them with the expectation that they're going to take
their equipment home, They're going to clean up after themselves.
You know, they're not going to yell at me in
my own home. Like, so you have to kind of think,
like what are the services that you would expect from
somebody who's not a pole instructor, Like what behavior would

(01:10:33):
you accept in your own home from somebody that you
are hiring to do a job in your house. And
then apply that philosophy to hiring an independent contractor for
your pole studio, right, like be on time. If you're
not on time, like this contract is terminated immediately, there
still has to be something in there because at the

(01:10:57):
end of the day, you're hiring them as a self
employed contractor, but the students are still yours. And if
the students aren't happy with your independent contractor, they're not
coming back. So and then just make sure that you
are whatever you're demanding from them or whatever your expectations

(01:11:20):
are fit within the state guidelines. So like I can't
mandate that an independent contractor come to a staff meeting.
I can ask them to, but I still have to
pay them for that time. But they don't have they're
not required to come. That's an extra thing. So you

(01:11:41):
have to really know what can I ask of them
and what can't I ask of them, or what can
I require versus what can I request? And you have
to stick within that. So luckily for independent contractors, there's
a way fewer best practices that you have to really

(01:12:01):
think of, uh, when it comes to kind of the
technicalities and the legalities of dealing with your with your employees.
So and with all of these, regardless of what it is,
your your demeanor and your personal actions are going to

(01:12:25):
take precedent like precedence with your instructors in some ways
over kind of what you do. Right, If I act
shady and I do weird things and I'm constantly changing
my policies, I'm changing my pay rates, I'm asking for
information that could possibly be seen as discriminatory, like before

(01:12:49):
an employee, like it doesn't matter how I'm paying them,
all of that is going to weird them out and
it's going to create suspicion and it's going to create
mistrust and that's not good for you, regardless of how
you're paying them. If again, if they trust you, chances

(01:13:11):
are they'll row the boat with you. I have a
lot of mixed metaphors tonight, so just go with it.
So any any questions on those or any anything specific
that or scenarios that you or other owners that you

(01:13:35):
know have had questions on, I'm happy to to answer
any any more kind of like technical questions if you have.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
Them nothing I can think of.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
Of course, they'll come after, which.

Speaker 3 (01:13:52):
Is totally fine, totally fine. Like I said in the email,
I'm happy to do like a part three as like
a straight question and answer from instructors and owners alike,
because this is a complicated issue, right, It's something that
seems that seems simple but is not simple. And regardless

(01:14:16):
of which choice you make, there are risks and there
are benefits. Right For example, if if I know and
this is this kind of goes into the next section
but if I know that technically my employees should be
paid as regular employees, but I choose to pay them

(01:14:38):
as contractors because that's what I can afford at the moment.
That's a choice and you have to make that choice.
But you have to be aware that one, if you
do something wrong, that your contractors have grounds to report
you to the state. And two, if the state finds

(01:15:02):
out what you're doing and they disagree with it, well
they have the right to audit you. And if they
find out that you've been doing that that could mean
back payroll taxes, finds interest like they could be a
costly decision for you. So as long as you are

(01:15:27):
aware of the risks and the benefits of what you're doing,
most people and you do them, and again you do
them honestly and ethically, most people are not going to
have a problem. They're not going to have a problem.
But because the state doesn't care about ignorance, right, they don't.

(01:15:47):
They don't care that you didn't know that's the way
it was supposed to be, so they're going to hold
you accountable for it. But if you do things honestly
and ethically and you operate on good faith, most people
aren't going to have a problem, and you're going to
be able to kind of just do what you need
to do. But you need to be aware that in
either direction you're running a risk. Like on the other

(01:16:08):
side with a W two employee, I can't even though
Massachusetts is an at will state and I have again
it's part of the handbook where that at that at
will statement is they're required to sign that that says
I can fire you for any time, at any reason. However,
the state of Massachusetts can look at that and go, eh,

(01:16:31):
but did you give them the proper disciplinary action? Did
you talk to them beforehand? Did you record the conversations,
like what did you take before you like, what actions
did you take before you got you got here? Because
if I can't prove then I did that, then I
might have a case, like they might have a case

(01:16:53):
for discrimination, which is also going to cost me money
and time, an aggravation that I don't need as an owner.
So each any direction you go in, you have to
do a risk benefit analysis, not only for your money,

(01:17:14):
but your time and your sanity as well. So with
that kind of like on that note, sorry, I'm looking
at my notes over here to make sure I didn't
get too far off topic. With that being said, you
kind of after you either hear this podcast, all right

(01:17:37):
and you think you might need to make a change,
or if you're thinking about owning a studio, you kind
of have to start asking yourself some questions and thinking
about where do you go next? All right? So you
have and you have to do this like almost brutally

(01:17:58):
honestly with yourself. That is not proper English, but the
sentiment is the same. You have to really look at
what you're doing and just really break it down and
know uncertain terms for yourself so that you have a
really clear picture of your business. So one, take a

(01:18:20):
real look at what you're doing as in terms of
your paid classifications and in your practices, and see what
category your people fit in in terms of state guidelines.
Start there, how many people do I have in this category?
How many people do I have in that category? You know?

(01:18:42):
Is there some leeway with the classifications? Is there anybody
that I can move? Is there anything that I can change?
All right? Next, look at your budget and see what
services you need and can afford. You know, if I
know that I want to sign up for the HR thing,

(01:19:04):
you know, for my payroll. How much is that going
to cost me? Do I have it? If I don't
have it, what are some other services I can use?
And then ask yourself how much control over your staff
you want and how much time you want to really
invest in your staff, because how you pay them is

(01:19:27):
a time investment, like I especially like with this payroll
switch over, that's a huge time investment in getting some
different services and being able to kind of change the
way that I'm able to track things and give my
staff more information. Like that's that's a time commitment, you know,

(01:19:50):
updating my handbook it usually I didn't even finish it
for twenty twenty four, so I'm having to do it
in February. But it usually takes me about a month
to update my handbook to make sure that you know,
none of my policies changed. I've updated all of the
legal disclaimers. I've distributed it to everybody, I got their
signatures back, I've answered any questions they have, Like that's

(01:20:12):
a time commitment, So you got to really ask yourself
how much control do I want over my staff and
how much time am I willing to put into that,
and then review the risks of both, like Once you
have those in mind, now you have to decide how

(01:20:33):
much risk do you want to take on. So I
know what I want to do or what I should
be doing, I know what I can afford, I know
how much control I want. Now how much risk do
I want to incur with these decisions, because either way
there's something right. And then then you have to decide

(01:20:54):
what the best course of action is for you. Maybe
you don't need any change. Maybe you are already paying
everybody regularly regular as regular employees, but you realize that, wow,
there's a lot more involved in this than I thought
there was. So now you have to figure out how
to educate yourself and where to get those resources. So

(01:21:16):
that's a time investment. But you don't actually have to
change how you're paying anybody. So maybe you have a
couple people that you need to switch over and you
need to have that conversation with them. Maybe you need
an overhaul. You have to make that decision for yourself.
So that's and that is your decision as the owner

(01:21:38):
to make. So you know, my I don't know. My
advice with said disclaimer from the beginning of the podcast
is it's always my opinion is it's always better to
pay people as regular employees, just for me because there's

(01:22:03):
way less risks involved. I feel like for me and
for the employee, I feel more protected. I feel like
my staff has when I pay them as regular, regular employees,
they have access to benefits that independent contractors don't have,
and I like that they have the option for those benefits,

(01:22:28):
and it just like it just makes me feel more
comfortable as a business owner to have that. But I'm
not every other business owner, and you got to you
got to make the decision that's right for you, as
long as you're not fucking with your people and you're
not doing things that are wildly illegal. Like just there

(01:22:52):
have been some stories I've heard, especially over the last
two years with some other some other studios, not specifically
in Massachusetts, just that I that I know of that
Like I like literally have gone what is happening over there?

(01:23:14):
Because I just don't get it. I just don't get
it as another business owner, And I do take it
personally when other studios mess with their employees again, because
that just goes to the global or like the national
perception of our industry. And you know, I'm not perfect,

(01:23:38):
you know, I have some previous employees who will tell
you that I'm not perfect, and that's okay, you know,
but but when a studio does what they what is
generally considered legal, you know, when you that, that's my

(01:24:00):
concern is when you start doing things that are that
are outright illegal, it's insults. I take it as an insult.
I do take it personally, and so it it. That's
one thing that I really struggle and if my employees
come to me with another studio that they're working at,
or they have a friend that works in a studio

(01:24:20):
on another state and they're getting screwed over, that's really
upsetting to me. So I don't take a lot personally
as a business owner, but that I do so. So yeah,
that's kind of the end of where of the generalized

(01:24:41):
information and my opinion on top of that with kind
of with this issue. It is complex and everybody has
different opinions, and your staff is going to have different opinions,
and that's okay. As long as you can stand behind

(01:25:04):
what you're doing in the way that you're paying people
and your decisions. I think that ultimately is the most
important thing to take away from all of this, regardless
of what choice you make.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Every studio is different, yes, yes, power learn.

Speaker 1 (01:25:26):
Your rest right.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
Also, we didn't even talk about co ops or other
weird sort of business types that you can have as
a studio owner.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
There's all kinds of things out there, you know. The
good news I mean, I think the good thing is
variety is good. Doing things different ways are good. I mean,
it's healthy to have a diverse industry. I think that
there are a lot of benefits to that. And I

(01:26:03):
truly believe in my heart that most owners out there, again,
they just want to do a good job. Like I
just want to have a good studio. I just want
to have staff and enjoy being there, and I just
want to have clients that want to come in and
have a good time. Like all of this other stuff

(01:26:23):
is pain in the ass admin work that, unfortunately you
as a business owner, have to suffer through. It's not
the fun part. It's not the fun part at all,
But it is necessary and it does make your life easier.
And you know, the more that you know and the

(01:26:45):
more educated you are, the more comfortable you can feel
that you're doing the right thing. And I think as
an owner, the less stress I have when it comes
to the decisions that I'm making on a date a
day basis, the more fun I can have doing everything else.

(01:27:06):
And so you know that, and that's that's your goal
as a business owner is to enjoy what you're doing,
Enjoy your studio so you know, educate yourself, make the
best decisions that you can so that you feel comfortable
with them, so that you can enjoy, enjoy your staff,

(01:27:30):
you can enjoy your students. You can enjoy polling or
handstanding or whatever it is that you do at the studio.
You know, dance it out, that's what that's what you
want to get to.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
Yes, Educate others so we can all grow in the industry.

Speaker 3 (01:27:48):
Yeah, Yeah, and lead with love.

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
You can never go wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
Yes, And I'm happy. I'm happy to you know, if
anybody want watching this or listening to this has questions,
you know, please forward them to you guys, forward them
to pull on the wall, and I'm happy to answer
them the best to my to the best of my ability.

(01:28:16):
When it comes to you know, making helping you make
decisions and helping you weed through you know, weird scenarios, reach.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
Directly because we're going to have all those links in
the comments in the section, right y.

Speaker 3 (01:28:33):
Yes, so I'll send over. I'll send over a bunch
of those documents tomorrow morning and the links so that
you can include them for everybody. So I didn't include
them at the beginning because I didn't know what you
were going to need or want based on our conversation,
and I didn't want to overwhelm with a bunch of
superfluous stuff. So I'll get this over to you tomorrow

(01:28:56):
so that you can you can copy and include them.

Speaker 2 (01:28:59):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:29:00):
You're welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
The series has been so eye opening to me as
a studio owner. You know, even though I've been doing
it for like seven years, I still so much to learn,
and I definitely learned a lot from from you and
also from my teachers. Good.

Speaker 3 (01:29:18):
Yeah, good. Even though even though you're a student, a
studio owner, or an instructor, you're forever a student about anything,
be it poll your business. You know, I learn more
from my staff and my students than I do from
anybody else, So you know, stay open minded, keep learning.

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Amen. I love these topic episodes.

Speaker 3 (01:29:46):
Well, anytime you guys want more topics, I have a
whole list that I can send you for future for
future shows. I love this stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
You're amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:30:03):
I guess with that we should thank everyone for listening
to or watching this episode of Pull on the Call podcast.
My name is Maggie mac with gross slippers.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
This is with one heel.

Speaker 3 (01:30:19):
Oh, I forgot about the foot thing. Okay, I have
bear feet, so Lauren with my bear not showing you
the bottom of my nasty foot. You're not cold, it's freezing. Oh.
I have a space heater and an electric blanket. I
got all kinds of stuff. Yeah, yep