Best Practices for Teachers with Lauren of Sky High Studios

Pole on the Call Podcast — Season 4
Best Practices for Pole Teachers, with Lauren of Sky High Studios

In this episode, Cris Rivers & Mændy Mac interview Lauren, Owner of Sky High Studios in MA to learn more about her pole dance journey, and to talk about the topic Best Practices for Pole Teachers.

DISCLAIMER:
I am not a Legal/Financial/HR Professional. You should consult one before making any changes to your business. All the information I have has been learned through research required to conduct my own business and to correct mistakes I’ve made. The purpose is not to scare other business owners, but to educate to strengthen the pole industry as a whole.

Things every employee should remember:
Pole is a largely unregulated industry and is generally lumped in with gyms/fitness centers when it comes to industry classifications. Most business owners are just trying to do their best. We usually have to be all things to our business and can’t know everything all the time. Have empathy and try to work with your studio as much as possible to resolve questions and issues. All fields have business owners who do shady shit. Be as knowledgeable as you can to protect yourself (regardless of any job you have).

Helpful Documents & Checklists for Pole Teachers & Studio Owners: https://drive.google.com/drive...

BIO:
I’m Lauren and owner of Sky High Studios. I opened the studio in 2013 to provide a safe and supportive environment for those who wanted to experience pole dance.

I started in 2010 after a long illness and I needed something that wasn’t the gym to help me regain strength and confidence in myself. I found that not only through pole dance, but through the people I met, many to this day who are still my closest friends. I started teaching in 2011 and decided to open my own studio with the vision to offer people the same life changing experience I had.

Today, my favorite pole things are rolling around on the floor, telling people they need more booty into their pole moves, and breaking movements down to small bits that help people gain strength and confidence in their movement. And freestyling. Did I mention more booty? I believe that everyone has in them an authentic, expressive self, and I want to help every student find that within.

LINKS:
Instagram @lilykingpole & @skyhighstudios


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, everyone, welcome back. We are a Poll on the
Call podcast and my name is Mandy.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Mack and I I'm Chris Rivers.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
And today we are joined with the incredible poll coach
and studio owner Lauren, who is the owner of Sky
High Studios in Massachusetts, and we're going to be talking
a little bit about our Pole journey, but mostly about
Pole's studio best practices for teachers. Hi, thank you Lauren

(00:33):
so much for being here with us today.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
It's truly our pleasure. And let's guest started because we
have a lot we're going to discuss today. So what
started your POLE journey? And I guess how did your
journey go to studio ownership?

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Nice? Okay, so probably probably similar to a lot of
people's journeys in one way, but not necessarily in another.
So I I actually started for a bachelorette party. So
this was probably back in twenty ten, and to be honest,
I was not excited about it. I was very much like,

(01:11):
I don't know why we were doing this, Like I know,
I'm not gonna like it. I don't want to go,
but whatever, it was a bachelorette party, so we went
and it was actually much more fun than I thought.
And also I kind of was like one of the
only people that could do some of the things, so

(01:35):
I kind of was like, haha, I can do some stuff,
and so I'm gonna keep taking classes. So I actually
ended up just continuing to take classes and decided that
I loved it. And at the time, I know, this

(01:56):
still happens a little bit, but it was much more
prominent back you know, almost what feels like is almost
fifteen years ago now was you know, I was doing
it for probably about eight months, and the studio owner
at the time was like, hey, you can do a
few spins and you can do a few things. Want
to teach some classes And I was like sure, you like,

(02:20):
you know, I got to hang out at the studio
for free, I could still take the classes, so whatever,
I did it, and I loved being a teacher. It
was like, I'm lucky enough to still be friends with
one of my original instructors, and I, you know, one
of one of the students who was actually in my
first class is still a student here today. So I

(02:44):
absolutely like loved it. I made some really good relationships,
and then it kind of started to take a downturn,
my relationship with the studio owner broke down and to
the point where I just the studio. I did not

(03:05):
feel the studio was a safe environment for my students anymore.
I did not feel supported either physically or just as
a human being by ownership. And so I kind of
just thought to myself, like I could offer my students

(03:28):
more for basically the same amount of money, Like I
could make sure that they have a safe environment they have,
you know, the instructors have somebody who you know treats
them like a human being, and you know, an owner
who believes that students should be safe. Have you pay
a lot of money for it. You have a right

(03:49):
to a safe environment where you're not afraid that equipment
is literally going to fall out from under you. So
so I was lucky enough to have some help to
open Sky High, and so I started pulling in twenty
ten and we opened in two twenty thirteen. So we've

(04:13):
been here ever since. So it's been a very wild ride,
that's for sure. But I love it. I love it,
so I wouldn't do anything different.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
And it all started from a beche threat party you
did not want to go too. Yes, it's a.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
Very strange story because most people are like I saw
it online and I just I'd never done it anymore.
I wanted to like try a class, and I am
just my story is totally the opposite. I didn't want
to do it. I wanted it nothing like. It just
did not sound exciting to me, you know, And the

(04:52):
total opposite happened, you know where, and it really has
both as a student and as an owner, really has
effected my life. I mean a lot of people talk about,
you know, the physical benefits of doing full but for me,

(05:15):
it really was life changing. That group of people that
I really started pulling with, you know, at the time,
I was I don't know how personal you want to get,
but you know, you know, I was in a really
bad marriage. I don't have any family in the state.

(05:36):
And that was really the first group of people, especially
females that ever looked at me and said you can
do this, and we're going to help you do it
and actively participated in my progress. And when I got frustrated,
told me, I don't care if you're frustrated, you are

(05:59):
still going to do this. And like I just remember
there were so many times in class where you know,
I I remember, and I tell the story in my
intro classes today where I remember when my first teacher teaking,

(06:19):
we were doing poll walks and I did what I
now called the horsey stop around the pole, just hieing it,
like stomping around the pole. And she looked at me
and she goes, I don't know what the book that was.
She goes, that was the ugliest thing I've ever seen
in my life. But we are going to change that.

(06:40):
Are were going to change it right now. And so
she had a sense of humor about it. She was
honest about it, but there was no judgment and there
was no like, I can't believe you just did that.
It was just very much all right, I don't know
what that was. We're going to do something about that,

(07:02):
and walked me through doing it until I felt good
about it, and it gave me something to feel good
about myself. And you know that, really that kind of
support really gave me not only physical confidence, you know,

(07:23):
like I think there is some level of mental and
emotional strength that comes from feeling physically better about yourself,
feeling physically physically stronger, feeling like you can do things,
And that really did, like work my confidence up to

(07:44):
the point that I was able to like look at
my life and go this, like I shouldn't be where
I'm at, Like my marriage is bad, it's not supporting me.
I don't feel good about that part of my life,
and especially being so far from home and not having family,
having a group of people that said we're here to

(08:05):
support you in any way that we can. You deserve
to be happy. You're becoming a confident person. You need
a relationship that supports that and that does that. And
so that actually gave those people gave me the confidence
to actually get divorced and change my life, and so that,

(08:29):
you know, was a really big step for me. And
I don't think I probably would have done it, but
I don't think I would have done it with the
same level of confidence if I had not had that support,
you know. And then the same thing happens when I
went to open the studio, is you know, I had
a group of supporters who said, yes, you should do this,

(08:51):
like we know you can do it, and you should
and if you do, we'll be there, and they came.
You know, it was not empty. It was not empty support.
It was not people saying, yeah, you should do whatever
makes you happy, and then you do it and they're like, oh,
that's nice that you did that, and then don't actually

(09:12):
support you. So you know, I was very grateful for
the community aspect of it and the relationship building aspect
of it so that I could do this confidently and
I could be successful at it. So that really that

(09:36):
really made a big difference to me.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yes, community is everything, and it makes it I mean,
it makes it so much better when you have similar
interests in mind. Yes, yes, thank you for sharing that
honestly with us.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Absolutely, it is so true, Like for me to pull
gave me a lot of confidence, Like it was like
I wasn't even thinking about how much it was changing
me both inside and outside.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that beautiful story.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Absolutely, And I think that's something that people don't realize
that they need until they do it, because you kind
of don't know what you don't have until you have it.
And then when you see what the impact is on
your life now that it's that you have that, you
can't let it go, you can't give it up, and
it changes you.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, and a changing our lives more than our.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yes, yeah, right, but then, thank you so much. For
opening the studio and you know, you know, being willing
to perpetuate them and see that in others as well,
because that's what it's all about.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yes, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
And now you could share some of the things you've
learned as we get into our topic, right, I.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
To share a personal experience. This is not from like
a pole studio, but this kind of like this was
before I was ever like a business owner or anything
that was in my regular dance teaching journey. I was
by a dance studio and talk there for like almost
a full year until all of a sudden they stopped

(11:33):
paying me. And then like it was, I would still
go and teach because I cared about the dancers. You know,
I'm not going to let them down. And then like
it came to the recital time and I still hadn't
been paid, and like I'm trying to like get paid,
and you know, I don't want to not go to
the recital because so I ended up you know, being

(11:55):
this whole ordeal. They owed me a lot of money
and I ended up having to go follow.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
A police report on it, and it ended up being
they weren't even a registered business, you know. Then it
was clear to me that anybody can open a dance studio.
You don't have to be knowledgeable, correct.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
That's crazy, Yes, And that's.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
That's one of the things I don't think a lot
of people understand about the not only the full industry,
but the dance industry. Is you know, legally is a
is a business Like we're kind of lumped in with,
you know, with gyms and fitness centers, and it kind
of falls under like the wellness if you're looking for

(12:45):
like a business classification, but unlike gyms or fitness centers
where you know, they're they're governed by kind of like
higher organizations and you have to if you want to
work in a gym, you know, you have to have
certain qualifications in order to work there. You know, in

(13:08):
many cases, you know, a bachelor's degree is required in
you know, uh uh fitness or physical sciences. There's any
number of fitness certifications that are out there that are
required in this I've worked in gyms. I've worked in
several gyms, you know, before I owned the studio, even

(13:30):
when I did did on the studio, I still had
another job for a while, and you know, and in
order to be kind of you know, an accredited fitness center.
You have to join these other organizations, and there's national
and international organizations and they have all kinds of conferences.

(13:51):
You have to keep up with continuing education credits. You
have to do all of those to maintain your job
and your education and your credibility. And with boutique bitiness
studios and dance studios, those same credentials don't exist. These
are not regulated industries, so anybody can own them, and anybody,

(14:18):
you know, I really can can teach there. You know,
there's no there's no way to really you know, credit
people with certain you know, certifications or whatever. They exist
out there, but they're not regulated either, you know. So

(14:40):
it's a little bit kind of crazy how how that
how that kind of works, especially when you're dealing, you know,
issues of people's safety and things like that and making
sure you have knowledgeable staff. So you know, that opens
both the instructor and the business owner open to a

(15:05):
lot of weird stuff that can happen, and it can
be very hard to kind of know what is the
right thing here, like what is supposed to happen? What
are the limits within I'm working as an employee, and

(15:29):
how do I really have to operate my business. And
if you don't know, then you don't know.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
Right, and then you learn as you go.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
And if we're all just learning from each other, it's
the telephone.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Game exactly exactly. And I really do think that most
business owners really are just trying to do their best.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
Right.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
We want to run a good business. We want to
make a little bit of money so that we can
support ourselves, you know, we want to have good instructors,
and we want our students to enjoy themselves. I really
do believe that that's what ninety five percent of us
really are working towards. But just like in any industry,

(16:26):
there are people that also are knowingly doing weird stuff
and in many cases illegal things. And so I really
do think that you, as the employee, as the instructor
you know, or the staff member in any capacity, need

(16:50):
to educate yourself and you really need to know. You know,
how you should be paid, and what behaviors you should
look for and an ethical employer, and you should know
what to do if those things don't happen.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Before we started this episode why we were contacted, we
went over the outline. Are there things that you think
every employee should remember based on this sideline, there's some
pretty good things here.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah, yeah, like.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
Talk about the difference between employee and an independent contractor
as well.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yes, yes, so quick disclaimer before we go any further. Yes,
I am not a legal, financial or HR professional. I
am a business owner who's had to learn from my
own mistakes. I've paid a lot of people a lot
of money to educate me on what I should and
should not be doing, usually after the fact, you know,

(17:59):
And my my goal here is to educ I don't
want to scare people. I just want to educate people.
I mean, it's I would rather have keep people from
making the same mistakes that I've made as an owner
and as an employee, and just help everybody kind of
like work together to kind of make this a little

(18:22):
bit easier for everybody, business owners and instructors together. So
so some things to remember that, you know, just to
kind of recap is remember that that whole is it
is not a regulated industry, and you have to educate

(18:44):
yourself to really make sure that you know what should
be happening.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
And that.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
You know because most both business owners are just most
of us are trying to do our best. So you
use the employee, have a little bit of empathy for
your business owner. Don't assume that they are just doing
things to like be weird about it, or that they're

(19:14):
trying to hide things from you in some way. Business
owners have to be everything all the time, and it's
impossible to know one hundred percent of all the things
that we should be doing. So have some empathy and
keep the communication open.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
And then.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Keep an eye out for weird stuff. If something doesn't
feel good, if something feels off, then kind of trust
your gut on that and do some research, talk to
some other people, and you know, keep the awareness going.
I think that covers everything from the outline. Am I correct? Yeah? Okay,

(19:59):
all right, So you Mandy kind of asked the question, like,
what is the difference between a W two which Massachusetts
defines an employee as anybody who is a W two employee,
so that's when you fill out the W four tax form,
all right, and W nine employees are the independent contractors. So,

(20:25):
just for the sake of keeping things clear, if I
use employee, I'm talking about a W two person. If
I independent contractor is the W nine person. So so
there are several differences between the two. The big ones

(20:47):
are when you're an employee, you have the right to
be paid bi weekly, You accrue sick time for the state,
even if you're a part time you do a crew
sick time, you received stubs your your paycheck stubs, and
you have a freedom from retaliation. So Massachusetts uses a

(21:12):
three it's kind of a three point system. It's called
the ABC test and you can find this on the
mass dot gov website. So in Massachusetts, all workers are
considered You're presumed an employee unless you meet all three
of the criteria. You have to meet all three and

(21:34):
if you do, then you're considered an independent contractor. So
those are one control. So am I free from control
or direction in connection with the performance of a service?
So if my employer controls my schedule, if they control
the curriculum, if they control my pay rate, if they

(21:57):
decide how well or how not well I'm doing my job,
then you're an employee. Course of business. So am I
offering a service that is outside the normal course of business?
And if i am, then I'm an independent contractor. If

(22:18):
I'm not, then I'm an employee. So a good example
of that would be like as a whole studio. Right,
if my students were interested in a Zooma class, but
I don't want to offer it as part of our
normal services, I can hire a Zooma teacher and they
tell me, all right, I have Tuesday at seven o'clock
available to do a class. Here's my pay rate, and

(22:43):
I go, great, that sounds fabulous. They come in and
they teach their Zooma class once a week and they
go home. So that's kind of that kind of meets
those kind of first two criteria. So and then the
last one is independent business. So an independent contractor is
basically self employed. So this this one, this bullet point

(23:09):
kind of is am I solely reliable on this job
to make a living, but I have an existing, separate
business in the same field. So am I if I'm
you know, if I might be a poll instructor, right,

(23:30):
but I'm only here for one class a week, and
I'm working at seven different studios, So this is a
service that I'm offering to multiple people, and the combination
of all of that kind of makes up my living,
you know, Or do I own another gym and I'm

(23:51):
just coming here to teach a class here once a week.
So that's kind of the third criteria. So if you
meet all three of those, then you're an independent contractor.
If even one of those you don't meet, you're considered
an employee. So do you guys have any questions on that.

(24:14):
I know that that was a lot of information and
it can be a little bit confusing and sometimes on
what qualifies as like part of those bullet points.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, and I think that's really it's just so interesting
because I mean, I worked always as a dance instructor.
I've always been an independent contractor in Connecticut and Massachusetts,
and there's like one of those bullets that I.

Speaker 5 (24:42):
Don't It's it is very confusing, and each state has
its own kind of test and the state of Massachusetts
worked with the.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Federal government as part of the Federal Labor Act to
kind of come up with this system and so that
they could kind of be covered under the whatever the
Federal Labor Act was. I forget what exactly what the
name of it is. So if you're not in if

(25:19):
you're a student studio not in Massachusetts, I definitely go
to whatever. In Massachusetts. We have a really great government website.
There's tons of information on it. Go to whatever your
government website is and find out what the criteria are
for your state. Because there is no federal like test

(25:43):
for this, they leave it up to the states to
define what an independent contractor versus an employee is, So
these bullet points are only for Massachusetts.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Right, You're absolutely right.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
What tipped me off that something was awry was when
we had our interview with Alison SIPs who's in Florida,
and she said for their independent contractors, they all they
have to bring all their own equipment.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
Mm hmm, yep, yep. And that's one if you if
you I think I include it in one of the websites.
That's kind of one of the qualifications is like in
the normal course of business, am I using the businesses equipment?
Or am I using my own?

Speaker 1 (26:31):
You know?

Speaker 3 (26:31):
And if you're using the businesses equipment, then you're probably
an employee. If you're required to bring your own and
you're not being reimbursed for it, you know, you're an
independent contractor. So that's not technically on the list, but
there are you know, when you when you do the

(26:52):
research for it. Uh, that does come up in several
places as kind of like a like a hidden kind
of criteria as part of you know, kind of comes
under the control aspect of it is you know, are
they controlling my equipment? Are they controlling what I'm using?
Then yes, I'm an employee.

Speaker 4 (27:15):
It almost seems like there should be a third sort of.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Type, just like the you know, the dance studios are unregulated,
like we're all just.

Speaker 4 (27:28):
Like running around a rye. Yes, maybe there needs to
be something specifically Russ.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
It would be nice. It would be nice, I mean massive,
I was. I was really I'll kind of tell you
the story because it'll kind of help like other people
figure out kind of how I had to kind of
do this research. So when I started, I all my all,
my I started with employees right out of the gate,

(27:57):
and I did not mostly because they're under my liability
insurance policy and they're uh, have workers comp I paid
workers comp insurance, so kind of I'll go into a
little bit more of that kind of in the next section.
But having employees is expensive, right, Like you have to
pay for all of this stuff to have employees. So

(28:19):
at the time I gone to my CPA and said,
can I do this, Like, here's here's what I'm paying
for the employees. Can I switch them to independent contractors
and he said yes, he said yeah, sure, go ahead,

(28:40):
So I did well. About nine months later, I had
switched CPAs because this person kind of did something I
didn't like. So I got a new CPA, and roughly
at the same time, my payroll company had come to
me about their human resources division because I have paychecks,

(29:07):
so they have just their payroll department and then they
have their human resources department, and so she came and
I figured out, what the hell, I'll talk to them right, like,
I don't know what's going on, good to have some information.
So so I talked to the human resources person first
and I was like, so, my contractors, like they signed

(29:28):
this handbook and she was like, what are you talking about.
And I said, well, you know, like I want them
to like follow these rules. And she goes, yeah, they're contactors.
I don't have to follow any of your rules, have
to do anything. And I was like, well I don't
like that, and she goes, well, too bad. So I said,
well my CPA, my old CPA, I said I could

(29:50):
do it, and she goes, well, you need a new CPA,
and I was like, well, lucky for me, I got one.
So she advised that I will go back, and I
talked to my CPA about it. So I did. And
you know, once I had like transferred over all my
tax documents, she goes, well, I don't see that you'd
paid out any payroll. And I said, well, the old
CPA said I could switch to independent contractors, and she goes,

(30:17):
your corporation, you shouldn't have contractors, and so I kind
of went, well, shit, So immediately I switched all of
my employees back to being in W two employees like
just I messaged my employees the next day and I said,

(30:41):
all right, I got bad advice. This is not how
this is supposed to be set up. I apologize my
bad I need to switch everybody back. And so within
a year my employees had switched twice, so which was
not fun for any of us. Like it didn't cause
a lot of upset, but it does. You're messing with

(31:02):
people's taxes. You know, they didn't have taxes taken out.
Now they do, they're switching it. So it was it
was a pain in the butt. And you know, so
for the disclaimer, when I say find a good professional,
find a good professional. Find somebody who's educated, get a reference,
because this get a business reference, not a personal one.

(31:25):
Find somebody who does good corporate taxes, because that's not
something that I ever should have done. And I really
had to re educate myself. In the beginning, I had
them as employees because they got benefits. There were specific
benefits that they got, and when I switched back to

(31:47):
W not or when I switched them back to W
two's now, I had to do it because that's legally
what I'm where they're supposed to be at. And so
that was kind of a costly mistake for me to
do that. So I kind of really had to go

(32:08):
through like a re education of really what doesn't mean
for people to be employees versus contractors. So this is
definitely a journey that I've gone on myself, same as
a lot of other owners have to do. So so
that was fun, not not even a little bit.

Speaker 6 (32:30):
So yeah, I would love for everybody to avoid that mistake, like,
don't do it.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
All right, thank you for sharing this, and I'm sorry
that you know you have to learn the hard way,
and also you know I will have to also learn
the hard way.

Speaker 4 (32:58):
It's just that we all, you know, like I said,
every single.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Job that I've had as a dance instructor has been
as an independent contractor.

Speaker 4 (33:06):
So it's just really interesting that we all just did that.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yeah, it's a very easy assumption to make. So however,
there are there's benefits to both sides, you know, And
and you know, I'm not judging studios that do that,
because that does work for other studios, you know, whether
or not it's like really according to the state the

(33:36):
way that they should be classifying them, but it does work.
And you have to definitely, as an employee, ask yourself.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Like.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Are the benefits kind of like on either side, Like
which one do I want to choose? And I mean
there's pros to both, right as Like as a w too,
you know, my taxes are taken out through the course
of the year so that I don't don't like I
don't have to pay a big chunk at the end
of the year. When you're an when you're an employee,

(34:12):
you have benefits, right Like I'm eligible for unemployment benefits,
I'm eligible for workers compensation, I'm eligible for paid sickly
I can't remember. I think that all employees are definitely

(34:33):
eligible for the PFML, which is the Paid Medical Family lead.
I don't think independent contractors are covered under that. However,
I may be incorrect, but I believe that it's only employees,
and you also have additional labor protections if something happens
at work. There are protect other protections that the state

(34:56):
has for employees. All your work time is paid. Like
when you're an employee, staff meetings are paid for. You know,
everything that you do should be paid for. I mean,
we use slack at the studio, and so every month
I pay my employees for a minimum like one hour

(35:20):
of just time that they spend sending messages. You know, hey,
can somebody cover my classes or communicating with a student
about a class or whatever. It is, like they get
paid for that time. Even if you like your performance review,
you're paid for that. Like everything should be accounted for,

(35:40):
and you're also covered by a minimum wage Transparency. Massachusetts
also has something called I forget exactly what the name
of it, but it's like right to pay transparency where
you can communicate with your your fellow employees about how

(36:00):
much are they getting paid, like what are their benefits?
And you can't be that your company can't retaliate against
you for doing that. There used to kind of be
like a don't ask, don't tell policy when it came
to pay rates. But with kind of the wage equality movement,
that is now something that Massachusetts protects in the workplace,

(36:24):
and you're usually covered by your studio's liability insurance policy.
So all of those are benefits to being an employee.
On the other hand, if you're an independent contractor, you
set your own schedule, you create your own content, You

(36:44):
have control over your pay rates. Like instead of the
studio telling you what they're going to pay you, you
get to tell them, well, this is what my rate is,
and the studio can kind of take it or leave it,
you know. You determine your own curriculum in your own content,
like you're not bound by whatever the studio sets for you,

(37:08):
you know, and you're not subject to any requirements at all,
Like there's no performance reviews, there's no performance requirements. If
the studio doesn't like if the studio doesn't like what
you're doing, they can just say, well that was nice,
see you later by And you have the ability to
do that too, you know. I mean, even as a
W two employee you have that. But there's kind of

(37:30):
a little bit more of a dance around doing that,
but as a contractor you can just go all right,
I'm out, thanks for playing, you know. But that being said,
both both of those do have legal protections against discrimination.

(37:52):
In the state of Massachusetts, you still can't discriminate against
independent contractors for any reason. And there are or whatever
what are considered protected classes, as my HR professional likes
to tell me, so you know, age, race, gender, identity,
like any of those kinds of things, you still can't

(38:14):
discriminate against independent contractors for and even if your w two.
Massachusetts does have an at will policy which legally says
that the studio your job can let you go at
any time for any reason. That clause does exist. However,

(38:35):
as an employee, if that happens, there are some steps
that you can take after the fact that make that
a little bit more difficult, and that's mostly to protect
the employee, such as, if an employer lets you go

(38:55):
for no reason, well you're You still get unemployment benefits,
but not generally if you're fired. So if you so,
you can you can contest that, you can contest. If
an employer denies your unemployment request, well you can contest
that and you'll have to go to court, but you
can show, well, they didn't give me an opportunity to

(39:18):
improve myself, and the state can go okay, well, in
that case, you're you're you know, you're you have a
right to your unemployment benefits, so you know, in a way,
in many ways, being a W two employee protects the
employee from weird actions against their employer in any in

(39:46):
any industry.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
So much information to think about, do you have? Like,
because I've heard you've given us a lot of information,
but I've also heard a lot of stories, especially like
in other parts of the country where these things aren't happening.
How would you advise people to kind of have these

(40:17):
conversations or to fix these issues without having to burn
any bridges or go behind people's backs if they can, like,
without having to go the legal route.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
So are you referring to people who are already employed
at a studio versus somebody who would like to teach.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
I guess both. The person who likes to teach will
probably learn that, Okay, this is different and maybe something
has to change.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Okay, So I'll kind of start with I think the
easiest place to start is with new employees, like somebody
who's a potential employee, because that will also kind of
give people who are current employees some questions that they
can start thinking about before they approach their studio about it,

(41:24):
because these are also questions that you can ask in
addition to some other ones. So I think as a
new employee, the number one thing you have to think
about is that you have the right to ask questions.
You have the right to interview the studio just as
much as they're interviewing you. And so these are things

(41:48):
that you need to know and you have a right
to know. So ask them what type of business are
they running?

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Is?

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Are they an LLC? Are they a corporation? Are they
a DBA?

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Like?

Speaker 3 (42:00):
What is their status? Because a lot of times that
can lead you to how you should be paid. So,
you know, ask them what kind of documentation am I
going to be required to sign? What tax documents are
you having me sign? You know, what what is the
orientation process? And if they tell you that they don't

(42:24):
have any paperwork for you sign, it's a huge red
flag right from the beginning. So how do they pay
their employees? Come right out and ask what kind of
employee am I going to be? You know, how do
you track my hours? How are you going to track
how I'm supposed to get paid? And how do you

(42:47):
pay me? Am I getting paid direct deposit? Am I
getting paid via check? What kind of records do you keep?
Do I have, well, I have access to my payroll records?
Do you have a handbook? And in that handbook? What
expectations do you outline for me as an employee? So
those are all things that you have the right to

(43:09):
ask before you even consider taking the job. And on
top of that, what is their disciplinary process if something
goes wrong? How do we come to a resolution? And
so your potential employer should be able to answer all

(43:31):
these questions without hesitation. And if there is any hesitation
on these or if they don't have a direct answer
for you, that is a really big red flag. They
should be able to answer these. But these are simple
questions and they should be answered every single time. So

(43:53):
I think that gives current employees a place to start,
right because I have had employees that have worked at
other studios and you know, I've been open, you know,
eleven years, so this has come up a lot over
the past eleven years. So and I've asked them, well,

(44:15):
how are you getting paid, like are are you a
W two or an independent contractor? And they go, I
don't know, so, well you work there, you should know.
So those are all questions that as a current employee,
you have the right to ask, and the company should

(44:38):
be able to provide you with records of any form
in how you're getting paid. There has to be a
tracking system so you can ask them what you know?
What is my classification? You know? And you can even say, look,
I'm trying to get my tech stuff situated. Here's some
things that I need to know. What is my employee classification?

(45:02):
Can I see my paperwork? So if you are having
them signing paperwork, as the employer use, the employee should
have access to that. And if they tell you no, okay,
well now they're hiding something, right, So I use the
paychecks system. That's my payroll provider. All of their documentation

(45:27):
is in paychecks. If they want to see something I
can give them. I just click a button and it
gives them access to see it. Like, I don't have
anything to hide from my employees. So if they say no,
that's a that's a huge problem, you know. And can
I have a copy of my payroll history? You know,

(45:50):
and if they also can't provide that, that's also a
big red flag. So those are I think, you know,
that's of a long answer to your question, but that's
a place to start because the the answers that you
receive start to clue you in on what are what

(46:14):
are the behaviors that I now need to start being
aware of, and what are some other questions I should
start to ask and so you know that first before
I move on to that that part, do you guys
have any questions about this any of this stuff?

Speaker 4 (46:38):
I guess this is more for like the I guess
when when.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Teachers go to ask their employer, like what type of
business they are, does it matter like if it's an
LLC or so proprietor are they going to have different.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
They can because your business set up like it can
kind of clue you in in many ways. So like
as a corporation, I mean, I can employ independent contractors,
but if all of my staff are into like as

(47:20):
if I have sixteen instructors and you know all of
them are independent contractors, like that is weird because as
a corporation, ninety five percent of my employees or my
workers should be employees so if I'm classifying everybody but

(47:46):
myself is an independent contractor, then that kind of tells
the employee that something weird might be going on. So
it doesn't necessarily affect the employee, but it is a

(48:06):
signal to how is this person operating their business? If
you do a DVA or an LLC tax wise, you know,
I'm not one of those, So I don't exactly know
like what the limitations or the rules are kind of
like surrounding those. I know that there are kind of

(48:28):
some different things, some different options that they have. But
so if you are one of those businesses, you should
talk to your your tax person or a legal professional
to find out exactly what that means for you, because
I only know really what it means for me. But

(48:51):
it can clue clue you as the employee in on
maybe some questionable things that might be happening. If they're
not paying their employees, or if they're not paying their
workers as employees.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
So many things to think about.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
Yeah, it's not there's a lot. And that's the thing, like,
as an employee, you can't jump to the conclusion that
the studio is doing something wrong, right, There's a lot
to think about. And I know studio owners and studios
where you know, they all of their people are independent contractors.

(49:36):
But you know, when it comes to ethical behavior, right,
the difference is is they go to those studios, they
do their work, they get paid, they come home, there's
no issues. They know exactly what the expectations are, they
know what they're being paid for, they know how the

(49:56):
studio is going to treat them. And that makes a
huge difference in having those conversations with your studio, you know,
because for many small businesses, like unless you're doing something
wildly crazy, the state normally isn't going to come knocking

(50:20):
at your door, you know. So if you're if you're
generally being an ethical studio owner, you really don't have
a lot to worry about. It's when it's when you
start doing weird stuff that it clues the employees in

(50:40):
that something is not right here. And that's the thing
with being an independent contractor is like you don't have
the same protections that other that that employees, those classified
as employees have. And so my recommendation is it's just

(51:05):
better to be an employee. Sometimes it's easier and it's
cheaper to be an independent contractor. But in the long run,
it's better to be an employee because you're just more
protected against unethical behavior. And if you're in an ethical studio, great,
But you let's take your dance studio example, right where

(51:27):
you aren't getting paid. You're an independent contractor. You don't
really have a lot of legal recourse. I mean, you
might be able to take them to small claimsport right,
but if they don't have records that you taught, if
you don't have previous case stops from them, that shows
what your you know, what your teaching history is. If

(51:49):
none of that information is available, the state's going to
look at you and go, well, you're an independent business owner.
Sometimes you lose.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
Success.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
What happened, Yes, they stayed in business for at least
in another year because I sounded off on it on
the internet and a teacher contacted me a year later
saying the same thing happened to them.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
Yep, it happened. It happened to the studio that I
left when I opened sky High. She ended up selling
it to somebody else and they weren't able to pay
their employees and one of them had to take her
and luckily the girl who was teaching who was taking
them to court. She had a record of all the

(52:34):
time that she She had kept her own records that
she could turn into the court and say, I kept
track of all the times that I've been paid, here's
all the dates that I taught, Here's what I wasn't
paid for. And luckily she was able to win in
that instance. But most people are not, like the state
just assumes like you're an independent business owner. Those are

(52:56):
the risks that you take and so so, and it's
not like it's not like, you know, working as a contractor,
like a building contractor, and if they don't pay well,
you can take all of the materials out like you
can you have if they're not paying you on time,
you can stop the work and you can kind of

(53:17):
leave people in a larch, you know. But you can't
you can't get that time back, you can't get that
life back. You're paid for something that you gave away
and the studio didn't pay for it, you know. So
uh So that that's a position that unfortunately a lot

(53:41):
of people still find themselves in, you know. And I
know a lot of good business owners that do have
their employees at independent contractors and it's fine there are
no issues, you know, and according to the state, it
might not be like the right way, you know, according
to the state of Massachusetts, but they're doing the best

(54:04):
that they can and they're running an ethical business. And
on the flip side, I also know of some studios
where that doesn't happen, you.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Know, right, and listening to all of this, like I'm
you know, my studios in Massachusetts.

Speaker 4 (54:22):
I'm a soul proprietor. All of my teachers are independent contractors.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Yeah, like the the of those three bullet points, it's
mostly like the name of your own price thing, which
I would actually consider changing because honestly, like why not.
But also our insurance covers.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
Are our independent contractors as well. So and as far as.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Like like what you said about we're all trying our best, am.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
That's the majority of us, right, Like we all start
a business like nobody starts a business. Well I shouldn't
say nobody, but most people don't start a business going like,
you know, how many ways can I take advantage of people?

Speaker 4 (55:14):
Right? We're trying to make it mutually best.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
Yes, we all were. We're not going to stay well,
most of us are not going to stay in business
if that's what we're doing, and if we do it continuously,
and so you know, there are ways to make it work,
and you have to you know, as an owner, you

(55:37):
have to look at yourself and go, Okay, what is
best for my business and what is best for my
employees and find the areas where those canverge and make
it work. And when you're transparent with your employees about
how they're getting paid, then they have confidence in you,

(55:57):
right like, here, that's how you're getting paid, here's why
I'm paying you that way, and here are the expectations.
And when you don't get that, there's no security as
an employee. And how can I do a good job
if I don't feel secure? And then they're put in

(56:21):
this really awkward position that you've been in and I've
been in where I love what I do and I
love my students, and you don't want to lose that.
You don't want to lose that connection, you don't want
to lose that enjoyment. But we all have a breaking
point where that no longer becomes worth the costs, like

(56:46):
that cost benefit analysis collapses. And so when you regardless
of whether you are an employee or you're an independent contractor,
you have to educate yourself on what are my rights,

(57:09):
what's the what are the differences? What do I want? Right?
Some people want to be independent contractors, you know, Okay,
then you got to find a studio that's going to
pay you that way, and and then you kind of
have to know where to go from there, like what

(57:31):
to look out for and where to go from there.
You know. So when you're when you're already an employee
and you want to approach your studio owner if you
don't have the if you maybe you have the answers
to all these questions and you don't need to approach

(57:51):
your employer about it. Things are fine, I don't need
to rack the boat. This is good. Great. If that's
not the case, and you need to approach your employer
about it. Once you've kind of asked all of these

(58:12):
other questions, the next thing you really kind of want
to do is you want to be open minded, right,
keep that thing in mind that I know my studio
owners trying to do the best that they can empathy
and yes, and I just want to approach them to

(58:35):
have a conversation about kind of why are we doing
it this way? And come from a point where I'm
trying to educate myself and I have some information to educate.
You don't assume that they have the worst intentions, don't

(58:56):
be accusatory. All you're gonna do is you're going to
make your studio owner very defensive and very reactive, and
that really can change your relationship on a dime, because
if me as an owner, if I don't trust one
of my employees, that's a big problem. That's a big

(59:16):
problem for any studio owner is if I don't trust
one of my employees or I feel like they're out
together right and use the owner or put in this
weird position between justifying your business right and having a
comfortable work environment. So you know, so just be calm,

(59:45):
be there to educate, and then be open minded and
listen to your studio owner and give them the benefit
of the doubt because you can use that converse station
to kind of not only not only use that as

(01:00:05):
an opportunity to kind of create a new relationship with
your owner, right, Because if I feel that somebody's coming
to me with information and they have something that they'd
like to share or they have a concern, that's an
opportunity for us to grow the relationship and so but

(01:00:26):
if you come if you follow all of that and
you come at them with that and they have a reaction,
that kind of throws your gut off. Now you've got
to be on the lookout, and there are some behaviors
you have to look for, and there are some things
that you have to do to protect yourself because you,

(01:00:47):
as the employee, you need to feel secure that if
something goes awry, then I know what to do and
I know how to approach it. Any questions on that
where I move on to the next part. I don't
want to rush anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about like
workshop leaders because those are our.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
True independent contractor, right yep.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
And so as far as like like pay for them,
is it okay to negotiate?

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
So that's are you talking like traveling instructors.

Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
I guess in general for as far as independent contractors go,
if they give a price like, is it not a
good idea?

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
I mean I wouldn't say no. I mean right, you
can negotiate everything. You know, you can even negotiate your
employees pay right like by have an instructor And I said, well,
our pay rate is I don't know, thirty five dollars
an hour, whatever it is, and they say, well, at
my last studio, I was an employee, but I was
getting paid forty dollars an hour like that can always
be negotiated the same thing with independent contractors, you know,

(01:02:02):
and anybody has Anybody can walk away from it at
any time, So I would just be cautious with I
don't know, my views on this have kind of changed
over the years, right, Like there are some people that
I know that I'm not going to negotiate with, Like
I know they're worth their money and I'm not going

(01:02:22):
to negotiate with them. But I don't know you, and
you don't have a history, like a like travel history,
or like you're not really heard of. I know, like
the pole celebrity thing has kind of fallen off the
rails since I started. Anyway, that used to be a thing.
That's not really a thing anymore. And I think that

(01:02:45):
your workshop is too expensive. Yeah, I don't negotiate with
like we have I have I have a contract that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
We could still do contracts with independent contractors, yep.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
So like I have my own studio contract with Traveling. Yeah,
because that's the one I sent you right, that outlines
the whole thing. So I mean, yeah, I got word
if you want to talk, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
I feel like there's some things that like, like I've
come to in the business world, like on my own.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
That makes sense that like resemble the things that are
what we're supposed to do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
So it's just very interesting and I still keep thinking
that there should be another third.

Speaker 7 (01:03:31):
Yeah, I agree, but until then we're kind of we're
kind of stuck in this like weird gray gray area.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
So yeah, yeah, any other questions on that part, No,
I think that was good for that, that's good, Okay.
So I think kind of the next place to go
from here is like what what kind of constitutes ethical
behavior and unethical behavior by your employer? It, I mean,

(01:04:12):
in general, like, if you see any of these things,
regardless of whether you're kind of being paid or not
as an employer an independent contractor, tell you something about
the person, but specifically as it pertains to how you're
being paid. Right, So, some things to look out for
are requests for work without pay, right. Like, one of

(01:04:35):
the things about being an independent contractor is that your
employer can't make anything mandatory as an employee, employer. As
an employee, my studio can mandate like staff meetings, but
I have to be paid for that staff meeting. If
I'm an independent contractor, the business can say hey, we're

(01:04:55):
having a staff meeting and you can go great, have
about it. I won't be there because you're not required
to be right. So if you if your studio says, hey,
we're having a staff meeting and it's unpaid, then as
an employee, you go, well, if it's not paid, it's
not mandatory. It's just not I don't have to be

(01:05:16):
there for free. Other demands not in line with your
job classification. So if I'm an independent contractor and the
studio says to me, well, you know, as part of
your classes, it's required that you work the front desk

(01:05:38):
for fifteen minutes before and fifteen minutes after, Nope, you're
paying me for the class. So I will be here
five minutes before class to set my class up. I'm
teaching the class, and I will lock up five minutes
after I leave. You can't require anything of me that
doesn't fit my classification if your pay rates are dependent

(01:06:03):
on other jobs. So that's a form of discrimination. So
if your studio owner set comes to you and says, well,
you're If you work at other studios, then this is
your rate. If you work only for us, then you

(01:06:24):
get an exclusivity bonus or you get like that is
crazy talk, like you should be paid on your skills
or on what you're teaching or the time that you're there,
not like even in Massachusetts, if you have a non

(01:06:45):
compete agreement, which Massachusetts at this point is almost a
limited not non competes completely. So if you have employees,
look at your non compute agreement, that's next on my
list of things to do. So well, I can't. I
can't tell my employees that if they work for a

(01:07:05):
competitor they don't make as much. That doesn't exist, and
that's a huge red flag, like completely if your employer
can't justify their pay rates, like if you if they
tell you, because even as employees, like well, if you're

(01:07:30):
an independent contractor, they don't have to give you raises
at all. That you're determining your own rates, so you
can change those at any time and just talk to them.
Unless you have a contract in place that says this
is my rate for this amount of time, then it
is what it is, right if I'm an employee. The
state doesn't have to. The employers are not required to

(01:07:52):
give cost of living raises, it's not a requirement. Most
raises in Massachusetts are merit based or like duration based,
so and usually those are contingent on whether or not
the business can afford pay rates. So, but if you
ask your employer, hey, I'm getting paid this much. The

(01:08:17):
problem I'm not getting paid this much. Then if your
employer and goes, Okay, that's just the way it is,
well that's not an answer. They should be able to
tell you. Well, you know, this is kind of where
everybody starts. This is what happens after the next step,
you know, this is what happens, like you know, at

(01:08:39):
your performance review or not many I don't know a
lot of studios that do performance reviews. But if you
do a performance review, then it's based off of this scale,
you know. I mean, my husband works for a huge
company in Massachusetts and I literally have no fucking clue
how they pay their employees because they're supposed to have

(01:09:00):
a matrix and they don't use it. So, like, your
employer should be able to justify and explain your pay
rate to you if there's no transparency. If you ask
to see your documentation and they say no. Now, legally,

(01:09:22):
as an employer, I don't have to show you all
your documentation. There's you don't have to have access to
all of it. There's certain documents that I am required
to show you and you I only have to do
that under supervision. Right, you can ask to see your
personnel file and we can set an appointment and you

(01:09:44):
can see it while I'm standing here watching you look
at it, and I don't have to give you copies
of that. I think that's stupid, But like I, they can.
They can have copies of all their documents. I don't care,
you know, like, sure, take it. You signed all of

(01:10:05):
it when you started. There's nothing I'm hiding, you know.
And then are there frequent changes in pay rates or policies,
so like if the owner is coming to you every
couple of months and they're saying, Okay, this is the
way we're doing it now Nope, never mind, now we're
doing it this way. Don't forget that. Like that is

(01:10:28):
a sign that they either have no clue what they're doing,
or they're changing things to get around what they're supposed
to be doing. And Neither of those are good things, right, Like,
I mean I changed. I have an employee handbook that
I change once a year, Like I can update it quarterly,

(01:10:52):
but normally I go in, I change it once a year.
I send it out to everybody and they have to
sign a little thing that says, yep, got the handbook,
I'm good to go. And so they kind of like
reagree to it every year. So so those are some
like weird behaviors to look out for. If your employer

(01:11:15):
does none of those things, you know, and you feel
confident that you're being treated ethically and with integrity, then great,
that's how it should be, you know. And I think
that it's harder for employees today to kind of know

(01:11:41):
what to look for, right So, Like when I started
fifteen years ago, I was treated like frapp, Like I
didn't have to know any of this to just know
that I was not being treated well. I was getting
paid ten dollars an hour cash, no workers come, no unemployment,

(01:12:06):
I wasn't covered by their liability insurance. Like thank god
nobody got hurt under my care, especially considering some of
the conditions in the studio, you know. And so I
think a lot of people who kind of were in
the pole industry as it started to become a mainstream,

(01:12:27):
looked at it and went, this is not right, and
they most people made took active steps to change that
for themselves and for their employees, regardless of how their
employees were being paid. And I think that's a good thing.

(01:12:48):
And so it makes it harder now, I think for
new employees to know what to be aware of. And
also there's not necessarily kind of the same level of
apreciation for when your employer does the right thing, which
is what should happen all the time. But and that's

(01:13:08):
really the way it should be, right. They shouldn't have
to appreciate that it's not shitty and that you're not
doing something wrong like that should not be the standards.
Oh wow, like they're actually doing things correctly. That should
just be the expectation to just be treated well as
an employee. But if you're a studio owner who came

(01:13:28):
from that kind of from that environment, you know, you
look at kind of some of the new employees and
you go, wow, they don't know and they don't know
what they they don't know, right, and that's good. They
shouldn't have to experience that, but it does create a
little bit of a disconnect in terms of communication, I

(01:13:48):
think sometimes. So, yeah, any questions about that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:59):
That's great advice employees of all industries.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
Yes, yes, So that being said, there there are ways
that you can protect yourself as an employee. Are you
guys ready for me to move on to that section? Okay, great,
So I think really the first thing you can do

(01:14:27):
is educate yourself. There are so many resources out there there,
you know, if you're in Massachusetts. Again, I can only
speak to Massachusetts, but there are tons There's tons of
free legal advice out there, you know, like there are
law firms that have like free blocks that you can

(01:14:48):
look at. The Massachusetts website has loads of information on
it and if you go to their their labor page,
it's the Department of Labor Standards or something like that.
There's so many resources on there, and there's a number

(01:15:09):
you can call and you can ask them questions about Hey,
here's what's happening. Is this how it's supposed to be so?
And that's free. Just take advantage of it. The state
doesn't charge you for that. So educate yourself and know
your rights. Know your rights is employee, like so that

(01:15:32):
regardless of how again, regardless of how you're being paid,
whether you're an independent contractor or whether you're an employee,
you know what the expectations are, so that if they
ask you to do something that's not within your job classification,
you can respond to that. Create a relationship with your

(01:15:55):
owner if you don't have one, create a relationship with
them and open that dialogue and be just open to
listening to them as well, because the better your relationship
is with the owner. And I'm not talking of personal
relationship like not going out to drinks, you know, like

(01:16:15):
not calling each other all the time, Like develop a
professional relationship with them so that you feel like you
have confidence in them and that you can talk to them,
and that if you have concerns that you know that
they're going to listen to you. I think that's I

(01:16:36):
think that's a huge thing that people don't think about
and when things come up, you know that's going to
be the first step. Is my relationship with my owner
strong enough that we both feel comfortable having a conversation
about concerns or issues. If you're an independent contractor, have

(01:16:59):
your own DOC documentation, have a contract with the studio
that says, here's what my schedule is, here's what I'm
going to be teaching, here's what my pay rate is,
and here's how long this contract is going to be
in effect before we renegotiate. And here are the terms

(01:17:22):
of keeping me, and here are the terms of leaving me,
and here's what you can expect from me. I think
that for an independent contractor, that's huge because if you
have that, you know, and get some legal help with it,
get some legal help with it, because there's a lot
that's out there that you kind of wouldn't think to

(01:17:43):
put in it until something happens, so so put it
in there. And that way, that does give you some recourse.
So if your studio owner decides not to pay you,
you can go and you can say they signed a
document it says this is how much they're going to
pay me, this is how often I'm going to get paid,

(01:18:05):
you know, and none of this has happened. Here's the
date that it stopped happening. So keep all of your
own records and keep all your own documentation, you know,
talk to your fellow instructors as well. Again, in the
state of Massachusetts, choose its employees have the right to

(01:18:25):
wage transparency. Talk to them about it. Not in a
way again, not in a way that's going behind your
owner's back. But you know, if you have questions, ask
another employee. You know what they're experiencing before you bring
it to your owner's attention. So uh, don't and don't

(01:18:52):
be afraid to stand up for yourself, you know, and
set boundaries. Studio owners get very overwhelmed. They have a
lot to do. There are a lot of things to
their employees and to their business. Sometimes they forget, sometimes

(01:19:18):
they just don't communicate well. So stand up for yourself
and stept boundaries. But do it from a place of understanding,
and do it from a place of like, look, these
are kind of the terms of my employee employment. If
you want me to do that thing, then you know,

(01:19:40):
I'm willing to do it. But here's how it works
with me as an employee. You know, or I don't
feel like I understand why you're asking me to do that,
but I don't feel comfortable doing it. Don't haul off
and you start accusing them or you know, coming it

(01:20:00):
a place of conflict, because chances are they're not trying
to create conflict. They're again, they're just trying to run
their business. But when things do start, when you do
start to feel taken advantage of, you need to find
a way to stand up for yourself and set the
terms of your employment. You know, if if you're an

(01:20:23):
independent contractor and the employer says, you know, yep, here's
what you have to do, and it's not coming in
and teaching for a class, then you can say, according
to the contract we set out, that does not fall
in within the parameters of my employment. If you need
me to do it this one time, I'll do it,
but I'm not doing that continuously for you. You need

(01:20:45):
to hire a front desk person like you can. You
can compromise, you can tell them you can set those
boundaries without you know, being a hard ass. But if
the pattern persists, you're going to have to really be
firm with your employer, you know. And if you're an employee,

(01:21:07):
you know, and there your employers doing something wacky, sit
down with them and say, hey, like, I noticed this
has been happening, Like as an employee, here's what's supposed
to happen, So how do we resolve this, you know,
and and start there and then if things go really awry,

(01:21:34):
nowhere to go. You as the employee have the right
to anonymously and this is a last resort. I would
never advocate that any employee do this unless they had
absolutely no recourse left. But you, as the employee, have
the right to anonymously report unethical or improper payroll practices

(01:22:00):
to the State of Massachusetts, and the state legally has
to open an investigation, even if it's a false claim.
That should be the end. Like the you're I have
no other option to get this resolved, because as a

(01:22:25):
business owner, I would not want that done to me.
I would want to work with my employees as much
as possible to get whatever it is resolved, and I wouldn't.
I would never advocate that any employee does that to
any business just because you're slightly disgruntled. That's not fair

(01:22:46):
and that's a shitty thing to do, you know. But
there are employers out there who really do take advantage
of their their employees or their contractors. And as an owner,
when that really is when that behavior is illegal or
it's so unethical that you're actually damaging your employee's financial

(01:23:10):
stability or their mental and emotional health, then that makes
all of us as owners look bad and it depletes
the confidence in our industry. And if that employee has
that experience, or that independent contractor has that experience with

(01:23:31):
a studio, how can they trust that they're not going
to have that experience somewhere else? And then we as
an industry lose really good employees, We lose really good teachers,
We kill the enthusiasm that we could get from really
great people, and that is a really sad thing. So

(01:23:54):
use the employee should do everything that you can to
work that out with your own And if you don't
like being there, don't be there. Don't be there, And
unless their practices are egregious, just walk away. Walk away.

(01:24:15):
Find a place that has a good reputation, take some
classes there and talk to the employees. Take class and
say I had a great class, How do you like
working here? What's your favorite part about being at this studio?

(01:24:37):
You know, you'll be able to tell really easily, probably
just from their facial expression, whether or not they're having
a good time. And you know, being an instructor at
a poll studio has been one of the greatest gifts
of my life. Like sincerely, I've met so many amazing

(01:25:01):
people My staff here is incredible, Like they're just amazing people,
they're amazing instructors. Like I want them here. I want
them to stay. I want them to be here, and
the best way to keep them is to do the
things that make employees happy.

Speaker 4 (01:25:24):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:25:25):
So, you know, as an owner, you can't take that
gift for granted. Your employees are giving you their lives,
they're giving you their time, they're giving you their bodies.
This is a hard job. That's something that really should
be appreciated, you know, and you, as the employee, should

(01:25:47):
feel valued, you should feel compensated, you should feel safe,
and you should do everything you can to you know,
keep that relationship going. You know, sometimes your enthusiasm as
an employee rubs off on the owner. I know that

(01:26:09):
there have been days where I've had a really hard
time coming in here for whatever reason, and my employees
are so excited to be here that now I'm excited
to be here, right, So use that enthusiasm as an employer,
as an employee to help your studio, to help your owner,

(01:26:32):
and to have these conversations in a way that foster's
education and foster's positivity and really with the end goal
being that we all want this place to be the
best place it can be, So how do we get there?

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
Right? And if all else fails, we will be back
with the next next part.

Speaker 4 (01:27:00):
Two of it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
Yeah, we'll talk with learn about best practices for studio owners.

Speaker 3 (01:27:10):
It goes both ways, it goes. It's a two way
street when it when it comes to this.

Speaker 1 (01:27:15):
Well, thank you, thank you so much for it. This
is certainly a lot, a lot to think about. I'm
definitely gonna have to review all this information. All the
links that you sent over will include all of the
links as well.

Speaker 4 (01:27:27):
Again, much of this information.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
Is for Massachusetts, but you should definitely check your own state,
and if you're out of the country, it will be
very different.

Speaker 4 (01:27:41):
Oh well, right, there's so.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
Much to think about, especially if you're wandering around trying
to get a job.

Speaker 7 (01:27:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:27:48):
One last little story. A friend, she was a dance teacher.

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
She has had no aerial experience at all, and was
hired at this brand new pop up aerial state that
also had like teeth whitening.

Speaker 4 (01:28:03):
And she would tell me like they were teaching her
how to teach.

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
Aerial silks, and the silks kept falling out of the
ceiling and.

Speaker 4 (01:28:12):
I was like.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
So like for the most part, like like you said,
most business owners are you know, they're trying their best,
but there are some that are just like what what
are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:28:29):
It happened, and it's it's much more infrequent than it
used to be, but it's still out there and in
our industry is not unique in that in that sense,
you know, it's it happens everywhere you go. Like I've
been to some gyms that are like regular gyms that
are nasty, right, yeah, ross nobody's friendly, like just you

(01:28:56):
can tell that they don't give a shit, and you
know that's not as again, it's not as common as
it used to be in the eighties and the nineties
and the early two thousands with more sanitation regulations and
certification regulations. But it happens, you know it, So you

(01:29:22):
just got it. You got to be aware.

Speaker 4 (01:29:23):
I gotta be aware.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
Than you think, taking the time out to help spread
the worst.

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
And I look forward to the next one.

Speaker 4 (01:29:35):
Yes, we definitely said that a SAPM super interested.

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
Yes, I was looking at the independent contractor and link
and there's just links upon links with this information.

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
Whole yourself very easily.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
And like also too, I know We spoke to Colleen Jolly,
who is the founder of the I p I. She
has lots of free resources for whole business owners, but
there's really not a lot for like like teachers, just
like you know when you go out what to look for.

Speaker 3 (01:30:08):
Correct it's important and there's a lot. The last thing
I'll kind of say is, you know, if you're looking
for a place to start as a teacher, start looking
at things like like personal training. You know, what are

(01:30:29):
what's kind of what are kind of the regulations and
the guidelines around personal training, massage therapists, like those kinds
of things where people are charging like an hourly rate
for a similar service kind of in the wellness industry,
And that will kind of at least give you a
direction to start in when doing some research. And then

(01:30:54):
kind of you kind of have to take that information
and you know, use some common sense, which I know
is also rare these days, and but apply that, take
that and apply that, you know, towards your environment and
towards what you're what you're making. Look at group class

(01:31:16):
instructors like Zoomba instructors, hit classes, all of that kind
of thing, like look into kind of what are the
guidelines around that, or like, how are those people kind
of normally paid in gyms? And start your research there
if you're not sure where.

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
Else to go.

Speaker 1 (01:31:38):
Thank you for that advice. Absolutely, Thank you again for
taking the time out to.

Speaker 4 (01:31:43):
Meet with us.

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
Ay I know we had a late night one today.

Speaker 3 (01:31:50):
All right, we're gonna go Ney girl up in front
of my fireplace that hopefully my husband has started for me.

Speaker 1 (01:31:56):
So thank you so to everyone who has listened to
or watched this episode of Pull and Call podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:32:04):
My name is Mandy mac Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:32:08):
Yeah, we have to do our little riding a bike.

Speaker 1 (01:32:12):
There we go, Okay, mobility exercises