Meet Pole Dancer and Pole Coach The Vontastic Poler

Pole on the Call Podcast — Season 4
Pole Dancer and Coach, The Vontastic Poler

In this episode, Cris Rivers & Mændy Mac interview the amazing Pole Dancer and Coach, The Vontastic Poler!

BIO:
The Vontastic Poler, better known as Von, hails from Memphis, TN, but currently resides in the Greater Boston area. She has been poling for almost 6 years and teaching for almost 4 years.

Though never classically trained, she has always had a passion for dance and the way it's allowed self-expression through movement and music. Her movement background spans more than 2 decades and includes liturgical dance, step dance, majorette dance, and unarmed drill team.

Von decided to pursue pole because it looked fun and challenging and felt it would help her tap into her sensual side. Now that she is 6 years in, she has attended pole conferences, taught hundreds of classes, trained with world-renowned pole dancers, performed, and even competed, winning her first competition in the PSO Northeast 2021 DTF Level 3 category. Though it's been more than half a decade of pole, Von feels like she is just getting started and feels excited for where her pole journey will take her in the future.

LINKS:
Instagram @thevontasticpoler
YouTube @TheVontasticPoler
LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/thevontastic...

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, Welcome back to Poll on the Call podcast.
My name is Mandy.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Mack and I am Chris Rivers.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Today we are so excited to be here with the
amazing pole dancer and poll coach, the fantastic polar onun.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Come on, yeah, thank you so much for being here
with us.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Von again.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm truly excited to get to know more about you.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for the invite.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Truly our pleasure. Let's get to the beginning of it all.
What started your pole dance journey?

Speaker 4 (00:40):
Hmm. I started poll dancing twenty nineteen. It was in January,
so I think I was on my New Year's kick
sort of thing. I was a few years out of
a couple of years out of college, and I had
a membership to my school, so I went to Bu

(01:02):
Bu as my almi maator and if you're an alumniist
within two years of graduating, they give you a discount
on the gym membership there. And their gym is amazing.
If you've ever driven down Commonwealth Ad in Boston, it's
this massive building like state of the arts, four floors,
like two pools, a hot to, like it's really very nice,

(01:24):
and so I was like, Okay, for forty five dollars,
I get access to this whole gym, Like of course
I'm going to go. And they have a dance program there.
They're a dance department in the basement of the building
and I just got an email one day and they
were like, Oh, We're going to offer Poe dance circuit classes.
And I was like, I feel like I had started
to hear more, like in the media about pole dancing.

(01:49):
It might have been that video that Rihanna put out
port Up. I think there was a poe dancer in
the video, Nicole the Pole I think was in it.
And so I was like, I think I started to
hear more about pole dance dance. And at the time,
I was like an avid runner and I was so
tired of running. I was just over it. Like I
never liked running. I was just doing it as like
a way to like, you know, i've cardial get my

(02:11):
heart rate up. But I never really enjoyed it, even
though people have always thought I was a runner because
I naturally have a runner's field, but I like, no,
never been a runner, not good at it at all.
So I was like, oh my god, I don't want
to do that anymore. And I was like, this is cool.
Like I used to dance when I was younger. So
my background is like really expansive in terms of movement,

(02:33):
but it's not the traditional type of movement that people
have when they say they have a movement background when
they come to post. So it's not like gymnastics or
ballet or jazz. I was a liturgical dancer, so like
I danced in my church. I come from a really
religious background, so I danced in my church for a decade.
I also did I was a band major at for

(02:57):
three years. I did step team. I did. I was
on Gerald TC team, Jerald TC team. I did Gerald
TC in high school, and I was on the unarmed
drill team. And there's like all these different things. If
you've ever seen Cadet Kelly, it was kind of like
that Cadect Kelly on Disney Channel, Like with the No,
we didn't do ribbons, but like we had an unarmed
drill team. We had an arm drill team that like

(03:18):
did routines with the rifles. And I was on unarmed team.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
And so.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
After high school I went to college, I moved here
to Boston I'm from Memphis and I didn't really do
dance outside of going to parties, and I was like,
I kind of miss it, you know, maybe it'd be
nice to kind of get back into that kind of
physical exercise. And so I gave it a try. But
it was offering it once a week seventy five minutes,

(03:44):
and I was like, Okay, let's try it. I was like, oh,
I can do this, like I've been dancing. And I
was like, oh my god, that was so hard. It
was so humbling. Oh my gosh. I was like, hold on, now,
I want up in there. I was like, I'm gonna
do this so easily and I was like I can't
even climb this pole, but I like I fell in

(04:04):
love with it. The teacher that I had is actually
someone that I ended up working with when I taught
at my first studio, and she was awesome. Her name
is Liz, and she was amazing. Oh you got so
y'all know Linz right, Okay, She like, you know, she
has the physical therapy background and so like we were
really big on conditioning and warming up and whatnot, and

(04:28):
it was just like it was really addictive. I was like,
oh man, I hate that it's only one time a week,
it's seventy five minutes, Like I need more. And so
I finished the semester and I was like, okay, like
I gotta I gotta do this all the time, Like
I got to get in there. And so I just
started looking around and that's how I found Boston Poles
Fitness and they used to have you know, back in

(04:50):
the day when these studios used to have unlimited one
hundred dollars for unlimited classes a month. Oh, they did
this really cool deal where you could have unlimited classes. No,
it wasn't unlimited classes, one hundred classes for one hundred
dollars all summer, so you could you had the whole
summer to use that. And I was like, that's what
I did. I was in there all the time, taking

(05:13):
multiple classes in a role like I wouldn't tell my
students to do that today, but I was in there
all the time. And that's how I got into it,
and I really just fell in love with it. I
feel in love the challenge. I loved being able to
get my body moving, I loved being able to dance again.
And I really loved that poll like the progress is

(05:35):
very tangible. You know. I can always go back and
look at the first video I took in Liz's class,
which was the last class of the semester, and I'm like, my,
how we've grown, you know, And yeah, it's really like motivating,
it's challenging, it's motivating, but it's also a lot of fun.
So that's kind of my Poe Dance Entree story. Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
I love that edit all started just because your college
gave you a gym membership.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
I love that isn't exactly it just thank you, be you.
You were good for something. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
I love Liz Ronca though. She's amazing. Yeah, so strong
and capable and very knowledgeable.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
And if you haven't turned out, we have interviewed her
as well.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
I didn't know that. Okay, I'm gonna have to check
it out.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yes, yeah wow r.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
R OTC. I love that else that you did before
helped and transferred over when you started going into poll
your running background and things like that.

Speaker 4 (06:57):
Yeah, yeah, I think I when it comes to like
the whole condeck, Kelly, I was I was in there.
I I did Unarmed Drill Team, I did color Guard,
I did KNOWLEDGEABOLEL like I was super like. I was

(07:20):
always a very like competitive, team oriented person, and so
I think I wanted to have something else like I
could really commit to and just kind of give my
all two And that's I think that's what I found
in Pole, Like there's there's always something to strive toward.
With Pole, like there's you never stop learning, and you

(07:40):
really like you kind of play yourself if you think
you've learned everything, because there's there's always going to be
a new trick. There's always going to be a new
dance style coming out, new music to try to dance too,
to mix in salsa and poll and ballet and pole
and jazz and pole, you know, So that that journey

(08:02):
to me felt very like natural to end up in POLL.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
I think it's so funny that you said that you
were running and then you didn't like it. I hate running.
I would never do it.

Speaker 4 (08:16):
I did not like it. I was just like, this
is this is not fun And it's just like I
was a I started out running outside and I would
like running my neighborhood, which was interesting. And then I
got the membership and I started running on the track
and I was like, I just cannot keep running in

(08:36):
a circle. I can't do it.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
You know, it probably built up a lot of endurance
for you to be on the pole though.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah, I think it did. I was running a lot
of miles back then.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, well when did you start.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
Making the transition pull student to teacher that I think
that because I was taking so many pole classes. Like
I said, I was in there every week, multiple days
a week, because I was going so frequently and I

(09:16):
would take like multiple classes at a time. I think
I for me, I think because I came in with
the like you said, the running background, like the endurance,
and I've always been like pretty strong, and so I
progressed quickly. And I think even back then we didn't
have like as many levels of classes and so like

(09:42):
I was starting to take intermediate like pretty early on
because I was in there all the time, and the
management team was like, you want to teach? And I
was like, what does that mean? And they told me
and I was like, you know, I don't know about now,
but I like when they first asked me, I don't
think I was a year in. But once I got

(10:04):
a year in, I was like, okay, like I'll give
it a try. And I learned about teaching and like
what that would entel Like Boston Pole Fitness in February
of twenty twenty, and I went to the session and
I was like, okay, like I think I can do this,
and then the pandemic hit, so I was like, oh dang,
And I didn't have a poll at home, so I

(10:27):
just didn't poll for like ten months. But that was
like my introduction, and I like had made some friends
and I talked to people that the instructors that I
felt really drawn to about their experience, and they had
positive things to say about teaching. And so I never
had that role where I was like, even though I

(10:47):
did a lot of physical teen activities, I never had
that role where I was like a teen captain or
pole captain or anything like that. So it was something
new for me, and I think I wanted the challenge. Yeah,
I think I just I wanted the challenge. I wanted
to explore something different, something I'd never done before, and

(11:09):
so that's how I got into teaching. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
I wanted to say too, like your choreos are so amazing.
Was it easy for you to start choreographing?

Speaker 4 (11:22):
Oh my gosh, no, I feel like I go back
and I look at my choreo and I remember spending
quite some time putting them together like I would spend Yeah,
I would spend quite some time putting them together. And
I felt like it was hard in the beginning, and

(11:45):
maybe it was because I was like, maybe it's because
I was out of practice. Like I came and I
started teaching. Pandemic was March twenty twenty. Boston Post Fitness
reopened December twenty twenty, and I started teaching in Jane
twenty twenty one. So I was I think I was
out of practice, and so it took me a while
to really get into the groove of teaching and creating choreo.

(12:11):
But I think once I got settled in settled into it,
it was much easier for like it to come to me.
And I used to spend time just like I would
go into the student. I'd be like, Okay, here's the
song I want to do. Let's make choreo to it.
And I think that's one of the reasons why I
took so long, because I would force it and now
you know, I would just be like, this is the song,

(12:31):
We're not going to change it. I got to put
this in there. I gotta put that in there. And
now when I make choreo, I freestyle like I might
hear a song and I'm like, I really like that song,
Like I'm in my head, I'm listening, I'm imagining what
the choreo is going to look like. And then you
go to listen to the song and you try to
freestyle and you're like, you know, it's really not it's

(12:53):
not working the way that I thought it would. I
was like, dang, this sound is so cool and it's
just not it's not fitting into my body the way
that I thought it would. And so I really like,
I'll hear some good songs and I just freestyle and
if I'm able to come up with like a sixteen
count and it feels good, then I'll keep moving with that.

(13:16):
So I create my choreo from what feels natural to me.
Every once in a while, I'll like, I'll think about
something that I definitely want to put in there. But
it wasn't easy in the beginning, and I think it's
because I was forcing it. I don't think there's anything
wrong with like picking a song and like knowing like
this is what you want to do, but for me,

(13:36):
I felt like it made it feel very effortful instead
of coming naturally to me, And I think that's why
my I think those that's why people say that they
feel like my choreo flows very well. And I think
it's because I just move naturally and I and it's
something that's like, okay, like that doesn't really make sense.
I should probably take that out. But for the most part,

(13:58):
the choreo that I'm making is coming from freestyle, and
I think that's why it flows well and why it
feels good, because it's the way that we're not forcing
any type of movements. It's just the way that, like
our body naturally moves from district to the next trip.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
I appreciate you being honest and sharing that with us,
because I'm slowly fining. I'm in that transition period now
we're finding the benefits of freestyle and just kind of
flowing and rather than forcing my body into shit that
it does not want to do just because it looks
amazing in my head. So I appreciate you sharing that

(14:39):
because it's nice to know I'm not the only one.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
You are not alone. I'm like, you know what, it's
almost time for dinner. I've got to finish this choreo,
you know, like and I really try to just I'm like,
I gotta go into the movies, like, let's try to
put something together that feels natural instead of trying to like,
you know, bend and break your body into what somebody
might expect it to look like. I'm sorry, I gotta

(15:02):
plug in my charger. Yeah, I've been and breaking and
try to force it into something that, you know, somebody
might expect it to look like instead of like what
feels naturally natural for us.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
In facts, I find I feel when we become teachers,
we want to create like the best Chorea. We want
our students to love it, so we tend to forget
about dance scene, how our body wants to and add
shit that we think students will enjoy.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
Oh yeah, I totally agree with you, and I think,
like especially, I think social media probably plays a role
in that.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Agreed.

Speaker 4 (15:44):
See you hear these songs being like, oh, this song's
very trendy, like a new album will come out, Like
Meghan the Stallion put out a new album a couple
weeks ago and people are like, can you do this
song for the album? And I tried it out and
I'm like it's not fitting in here, but I can
play it for the freestyle period class, you know. So
I totally hear that. I totally not I agree that.

(16:07):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
So what is your faith? Do you have a favorite
style of pup.

Speaker 4 (16:17):
I love sensual sexing heels. That's like, that's like my
that's my can we cuss on here? That's my ship?
Like for real. I don't know if it's like the
Aquarius in me, like we are. We're total rebellious rule
breakers and we're just like, oh, I'm just gonna put

(16:38):
it all out there, you know. And I feel very
comfortable with that, you know, like having people's eyes on
me and moving my body in like very seductive ways.
And I love heels. I love the challenge of heels
and figuring out how different how tricks change when you

(17:00):
put on heels versus when you take them off. I
love I love finding like the music in my body
when I'm dancing to sensual or like sexual music. How
our body rolls change, how our leg waves change depending

(17:23):
on the musicality of the song or depending on the
type of sexual song it is. I don't know, it
like it really does something to me. It makes me
feel very empowered. It makes me feel very strong, and
I think like this is just Poe in general, but
it makes me feel very capable of anything, you know.

(17:44):
It makes me feel very capable. So I just love
heels and I love teaching choreo to people and just
like helping people find their sense of sensuality for themselves
and whatever that means to them, you know. So I

(18:05):
love everything about that.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
I love it, and you'd be centializing it if y'all
haven't seen her, you gotta check out her instagram.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
I try.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, man, what are you teaching at the moment? And where?
So for those who want to meet you and dance
with you?

Speaker 4 (18:30):
Mm hmmm hm. So right now, I teach to intro
to Pole classes, which I really love, like I love
TG Beginners and that is that Fly Together Fitness which
is in Watertown, mass And as well. In addition to
intro to Pole, I teach florography, which is just floor work,

(18:52):
very very minimal poll if it is, it's like base
work that we're doing, just moving around the base and
whatnot or using it to get to another the other
side of the pole. And then I teach spin polography,
which is spin pole choreo. It's like a it's not
a beginner class. It's like a level one and up class,
so people who are like comfortable with climbing and holding

(19:14):
their body weight on the pole. And then I teach
seductive choreo on flow, which is you can wear heels,
but it's it's not a heels class. It doesn't matter
to me if people wear heels. But excuse me. Yeah,
we we do everything. We do floor work, we do
low flow, we do basework. No spin pole, though, static pole,

(19:37):
and all of those are fly together. And that's actually
the only studio that I'm teaching at right now.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Are any of the classes offered online.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
They're not offered online. I've never taught online before, and
I don't think that they offer any online classes that
fly together. Yeah, they do have an online video library
the students can access if they're members.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
I think, thank you for sharing that. If y'all want
to check out her classes, they're going to be in
the comments and the notes, y'all. It makes me want
to create that platform for teachers to teach virtually from home.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
Yeah, and I actually last year I put together I
have an extra room in my house and I did
put up a poll with the lights and was and
everything and plants. So I have a pole space and
I mean I haven't done any virtual classes, but I
like posting my corios that you my freestyle and whatever

(20:42):
that I do in there, and it's you know, virtual peaking.
There's definitely a demand for it. It's kind of that
business is booming, right.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah. Classes at home with Chris the other day and
it was awesome.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
I've been discussing with Mandy of creating a platform for
co instructors who want to teach virtually who can't do
it at their studio for whatever reasons, and you're just
making me feel like it needs to be done.

Speaker 4 (21:16):
I think it'd be really popular, especially because there's not
a lot of post studios in this area. Yeah, like
I think, I mean, my viewpoint is limited, you know.
I have what I see on Instagram, and I have
the cities that I visited where they have a massive
pole dance community, which is just New York City. I've

(21:38):
been other cities, but like in terms of like the
cities where I've really tried to immerse myself in the
post scene and like visit different studios, is New York city,
and they're everywhere. I mean, New York's very big, but
they are literally everywhere, Like you could live within walking
distance of a post studio, you know, and it's hard
to find that here in mass She sits. I think,

(22:03):
and I think there is definitely a demand for people
who want to take classes virtually for sure, because it's
not easy to get to studios necessarily, right, I.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Would be taking your class every week if I lived closer.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Wait for twenty twenty five, I'm gonna create this platform
and I'm gonna reach out to you about Tassic. We'll
get you teaching online because it's my goal constructors to
be able to teach online and make more money and
teach from home.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
Yeah, please do that sounds like I think it would
be received really well, really well.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, right, and just a place for like all online
students to find all of the teachers too, because right
now they're all like based out of studios.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Maybe it's hard to find so now, yeah, they're all
based out of studios, and the studios are not necessarily
like close to each other, like when I go to
New York or even like when I have students here
who will go visit other places and they'll be like, oh,
I went to the studio.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
I went to that student now, like they're close and
like people hop around at studios in other areas I've noticed,
and they don't do that as much here. I think
it's interesting.

Speaker 5 (23:20):
Yeah, but when you come to teach at Polling the
Wall in January, your workshops are offered online.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
I'm so excited, so excited.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
If anyone's in the area or not in the area,
you can shake work exactly January twelve, January twelfth.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
I'm so fast.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
I know, I know Thanksgiving and Christmas right there.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Oh and she speaking, yes, go ahead me and the future.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
No, I don't want to get to that yet.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Let's go back back into your pole dance journey. Do
you have any pole dance philosophies to share?

Speaker 4 (24:12):
Hmm my pole dance philosophies, I think. I think be
open minded, be open minded. There is not one way
to pole dance. There's no right or like wrong way
or do to do it. And I think that sometimes

(24:33):
people like they put pole dance in a box and
they're like, oh, like it has to look this way,
like you have to point your toes and you have
to do these really hard tricks and what do you
mean you only take dance classes? Like that's that's not
pole fitness, that's not postport And I'm like, come on out,
Like there's so many ways to do pole dance. Like

(24:53):
some people have a membership at the studio and they're
coming for like floor work classes only, Like I literally
only see them in floor work classes, or they're coming
for low flow, or they're coming to do tricks right,
or they're they're coming to do heels class with me.
I don't think that there's one right way to do

(25:17):
pole I really think. I'll say this. I think in
the Boston area, I think poe is very sporty here,
like I don't think it's very dance oriented, like I
think it has kind of Poe here is a little
divorced from the origins of Poe dance. And I think

(25:42):
there are some people who kind of like when they
see people dancing, they're like, why would you? Why would you?
Why would you? Why would you do that? Like why
not butterfly a ysha, you know, outside leg hang, And
they don't necessarily understand or or maybe want to understand
that people have different interests. There are different things that

(26:05):
make people feel fulfilled when it comes to pole and
it's not always doing tricks and climbing up the pole,
like some people have really found themselves just through body
rows and leg waves. Like I had a student who
she does different things. Like one month she was like,
I'm gonna focus on airwalks and the next month she's like,
I'm gonna focus on leg waves and she's like, I'm

(26:26):
feeling really called the body rolls, like this is my
time for this, and I'm like that's good, Like you
should find the thing that makes your heart sing. Oh,
look at that mean ryming. I didn't mean to rhyme,
but you really should. You know, you got to. You
gotta figure out like you're not doing this for anybody else,
You're just doing it for yourself. Right, So it can
be a little frustrating when people are like, oh, you
got to do it this way, and I'm like, no,

(26:48):
I tell my students they come to the entry. I'm like,
it doesn't matter if you point your told. Nobody cares
about that, you know. So for me, like I think
I try to tell my students, like be open minded.
There's no one way to do something. I might teach
it this way, but like, there's other ways to teach
this trick, right, or maybe this particular thing like doesn't

(27:12):
work for your body, like it doesn't feel good or
it's not safe for your body, right, So let me
give you this other thing to try, or let me
show you a different way to get into this trick
instead of for example, Superman. A lot of people hate Superman.
They hate that trick. It hurts. I get it, Jazmine,
And Superman does not work for everybody. Maybe flatline Scorpio

(27:36):
to Superman is better, or apprentice to Scorpio, Like, there's
different ways to do different tricks. And you know, I
don't I don't like to force people to do you know.
And maybe it's like I said at the Aquarius, I
don't know. You know, you can you can spice it up,
you can try something new. So that's probably my main
philosophy when it comes to teaching.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yes, I love that. I agree everybody should be open
minds to take from different teachers, take from different studios,
take different aisles. And it's interesting that you brought up
Boston is more sports c kind of in the poll,
because you're right, if you watched like PSO Northeast, it
is all like real sportsy fitness level, but if you

(28:20):
go to other parts of the country, they focus more
on the artistry and the flowing of it. It's really.

Speaker 4 (28:28):
Very interesting how just like what you said about ESL
I have. I was talking to one of my students
who is prepping for PSO this weekend, and which is exciting,
you know, like I'm like, I'm so excited, but they're like,
you know, they went to a dress rehearsal and they

(28:49):
were like, oh, there were not other people in the
DTF category, like at the rehearsal, like she was the
only one. And she was like, you know, there was
a lot of like championship level, which is fine. You know,
that's that's what people feel comfortable in when it comes
to competing. You should definitely do what you feel comfortable in.

(29:10):
But she was very cognitive of the fact that there's
not a big focus. There doesn't seem to be a
big focus on dance when it comes to competing. And
I was like, ah, I agree. I did DTV and
I was like, there were not They had to mesh
my categories because there weren't enough people in the junior
so I was joined with master and I think grand
Master too when I competed. So no, I totally feel that,

(29:33):
and I think it's it can feel very obvious, like
even when you depending on the teacher you take, they
might have more of a focus on like tricks and
stuff and they might not teach like about the dance
side of pole dance. You know, me, one second, I
didn't I guess I didn't actually plug in my computer.

(29:54):
I'll be right back. It's like, girl, there.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Was somebody else we were talking to as well about
in this region. It seems to be like all of
the polled answers need like the right way to do it,
and like I also teach like it's not like willy nilly,
but like you could do it in any sort of
way that you know feels best for you as long
as it's safe. As long as it's safe. Yeah, some

(30:26):
people have a hard time understanding that.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
Yeah, yeah, I have a lot of compassion for people
who feel like they need to be told like what's
the right way to do it. But I also think,
like I have the compassion, but I'm also like.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
That's you.

Speaker 4 (30:47):
I'm gonna do me, you know, so that that's none
of my business. You know, I can I know you won't.
I was like, okay, like this is tried it this way,
you know, and next week we'll try it a different
way and just see how it feels. Maybe it'll feel better.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
You know. It's almost like they're searching for like perfection.
There is no Yes, it's not real. It's real. It
would be so boring.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Yeah, it would be very boring, Like everybody would look
the same and be doing the same things. And I'm like, no,
like we can try something different. It's okay.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
I think instructors we should also take the time to
learn other things, because for a while people came to
me for tricks and the condition and now it's nice
when they're like, oh, you got some floorwork on you too, Okay,
So I think it's important as.

Speaker 4 (31:43):
A your branding. I love to see it. I think
that's right.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
I started to show classes more instead of focusing all
on the conditioning, to get the tricks on adding some
more of that floorwork element on the low base thing,
which I think is important, not just tricks.

Speaker 4 (32:04):
And do you find now that you're starting to add
in the floor work and the base work, has that
impacted the way that you teach your tricks class, or
maybe like the way that you do your tricks.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
I do, yes, I use I find a way to
use conditioning exercises that are either floor work and go
with the tricks or the conditioning exercise work for the
floor work and the tricks, and then I find a
way to combine the floor work with the trick to
put it into a combo. So if they want to

(32:41):
be higher level and experiment with new things, they can
try to put it together like that. And I think
the students like it. It's they seem to enjoy being
able to back, bounce back and floor from floor work
to trick from floor work, et cetera, flexibility and so forth.

Speaker 4 (33:01):
I love that. Yeah, I feel like I actually had
a student in my class this week and I haven't
seen her in a while, and she was like, you
look strong, and I was like, thank you. I'm just
teaching intro to polls. I'm like, it must be all

(33:21):
the dancing making me strong. And so when I say
I've been doing all this dance for like months, just
like I'm teaching three dance classes the week, which is
a lot. At one point I was teaching four, you know,
and so I'm not taking as many tricks classes. But
when I go to tricks, I'm like, it's been a while,

(33:44):
but I can still do this trick, and actually I
can do even more. Like dancing makes you strong, it
builds your endurance, I'm like, okay, I gotta mix this
up a little bit more Like it has a really
positive impact on your strength.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
I would say that I am also a purely only dancer.
I went up the pole the other day in Chris's class.
It's good months, Yeah, dancing.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
I hear it, I hear it.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
You're one hundred percent right now that I'm doing more
of the floor work, Like I find sometimes I leave
and my body hurts more than if I spent the
time during.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
The trip exactly Like I'm beat up right now, but
it's like it's a good it's a good beat up now.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
It is good times anyway, Oh my goodness. My favorite question.
Do you have a favorite Poe trick or low flow
trick or any trick?

Speaker 4 (34:50):
Do I have a favorite poll trick? I actually love
pure wets. I love pirouettes and twister grip pirouet. You
have the I don't even know how to demonstrate it
without a pole. I call it a pizza pirouet when
you grab the pole between your hands and then you
turn with the cup grip. I love piroets. I love

(35:15):
all the different ways you can dress them up. I
love that it allows you to play with level changes
like dropping and then coming back up, adding glides and
as you turn. I feel like I have a lot
of piroetes in my choreo, but I have even more
when I do freestyle, Like I'll go back back and
I'll watch it and I'll be like throwing out six
pirouettes in a row. I love them, and it's a

(35:39):
great way to actually like train your like I don't
know what you want to call it, if you get
very dizzy. I feel like it's a really good way
to train the dizziness aspect of pole. So like I'll
just like bang out piroetes around the pole and I'm like, okay,
like I'm getting better. I'm like, I'm less dizzy than
I was like three months ago. So yeah, I love pirouettes.

(36:04):
I what do I not like? I don't enjoy keep it.
I do not enjoy keep it. I think I can
do it once a year, and that's if I have
firm grip on the soul of my foot. It's just
one of those tricks that like it. It evades me
most of the time. I don't know. I think it

(36:27):
might just be like maybe my knee hold, because for
a long time Stargazer also evaded me, and now I
can very comfortably do Stargazer, So maybe I need to
condition it. But I don't like it, so I don't
want to. But I think it's very pretty, but I
just I don't enjoy it. I'm like, and when my

(36:48):
students want to learn it, I'm like, are you sure, Like,
do you want to do my Fly or a Prentice instead?
Because I love Apprentice. It's like my favorite way to
get into Butterfly, and I understand that it's hard. It's
probably the hardest way to get into the Butterfly, but
I'm just like, I don't know. I love the just

(37:10):
right on up, you know. And that is definitely one
of the ones that my students hate. They hate Apprentice
and it's fair because it is hard. Yeah, you hate it, okay, Yeah,
I think it's also very hard for my students that
have hyper mobile elbows. It's very hard for them. And

(37:34):
also shout out to you because after taking your class.
I can spot a hyper mobile dancer a mile away.
I'm like, elbow that me, I see it. But yeah,
a lot of people hate that move, and I understand why. Yeah,

(37:55):
I'm with you, though.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
I love Apprentice to Butterfly like Apprentice to anything, sent
to Apprentice, Apprentice to Butterfly, Apprentice to shut I think
it's because for so many years it was my pole nemesis,
and then once I got it, like I got it
and like it just made me fall in love with it,
just because of the journey.

Speaker 4 (38:14):
The journey. Also, like there's so many other ways to
do Butterfly, but I'm like the setup. You can just
go into the Princess and just shoot right into Butterfly,
just like so f.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
My butt does not go.

Speaker 4 (38:34):
Up, that's that's fair, and that I feel like, I
don't know Jazmine jazz In's a Butterfly.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
That's my way.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
When I say I didn't even know it existed until
like two years ago, because I had always done inverted
Crucifix and then Apprentice and my students were like, can
we do Jazmine? I was like, what the hell? Aren't
you scared? You gonna follow your head? But it's very
accessible for people, so I do teach it. I can
hate a trick and still teach me, you know, I

(39:12):
think that's important.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yes it is. You can still hate it, you don't
have to do it, but you can still teach it.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
Exactly. I'm like, I'm only demoing one time. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Instructors, do not limit your students just because you can't
do it or you don't to pass you. OK, So
I don't have to ask the poe number sins because
you're already asked that. What do you tend to use
for your grip?

Speaker 4 (39:46):
I use dry hands and I use girly grip, and
I think the main reason I use it is because
I'm lazy and I don't want to do the research.
Is there something better that works for me? Per chance?
Dry hands is accessible though, so, and I don't like
I don't really struggle with like sweaty palms, Like I

(40:08):
don't use like what's it called tight grip or something
like that or monkey hands. I have some students that
use that and they found it to be really helpful.
But I've just always been like a dry hands gurly
and it's always worked like pretty well for me. Girly grip.
I tend to use more on my body, so I'll
use it like in my meet pits or my elbow

(40:29):
pits if I need some extra grip. But that's worked
very well for me unless I'm doing cupid and then
I use firm grip on the soul of my boots.
Otherwise I don't use it because I'm I'm heavy handed
and now and then I'll be like, okay, like ouch,
now my body hurts because I can't stop sticking. So

(40:50):
I'm a dry hands gurly right your clothes to your body.
I'm like, yeah, it's very.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Curly, curly grip. I didn't know monkey hands is now
banned from p s O.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
I didn't know that there's one of them that is
a really tacky one.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, I think, yeah, I forget which which one it is,
but there's just.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
One of them, probe the sticky one that makes sense.
I mean.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
The po cleans, you know, and they're like, I can't
how much time I don't have to scrub. I can't
get it all, you know, like I get that.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Eight thousand times. Now this, Yeah, you got to stick
the pole somehow, mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
It is.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Well, now I can ask, well, what are some things
that are coming soon for you.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
Yeah, okay, So I am excited for the Pull and
the Wall workshop. I feel so thrilled, like it really
warmed my heart to reach out to me, and I
think especially after I went to visit recently, I was like,

(42:17):
this is a really nice space, Like it's quaint. The
people here are like, it's cute, it's quaint, and there's
so much love in the space, like you can tell,
like even in the in the corner where they have
the ginger choose. I was like, what a thoughtful touch,
because people do get dizzy and they need to settle
their stomach after spinning on the pole, so you know

(42:40):
what I mean. So I was really happy about that,
and I wasn't sure when I would be ready for
workshops or if people wanted them. I guess there's I
have attended a lot of workshops in my time, even

(43:01):
back to my first year as a polar different people,
Crystal Belcher, Samantha Starr, Mandy mack Bentley, Rebel like all
these different people, and I was like, that seems really
cool to be able to like travel and to share
about your teaching philosophy or your choreography or your signature

(43:22):
tricks or you know you're really good at doing Superman Like,
I want to break this really difficult concept down for people.
And I wasn't expecting it to happen when it did,
but I'm I'm grateful and I'm really excited about it.
And you know, like I've said a million bazillion times,
I love teaching choreo, I love teaching, but I really

(43:44):
love creating and teaching choreo, and so I'm excited to
share that with more people in Massachusetts and beyond because
there's online. Yeah. So that's one thing that's coming up,
and that's Shamanuary.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Twelve.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
I think it's sometime in mid January. Then I have
a workshop coming up in December at Flying Squirrel in Malden,
not Malden, Everett, Massachusetts. And that is with two of
my dear friends, the Pope Estie Snicka Roach and Jillian Wright.

(44:29):
We're former instructors that Fly Together Fitness and they're both
people that I like, deeply admire and I trust, and
I feel like we just like gravitated toward each other,
like you know, like you're taking a pole class and
you're like, I don't know that person seems cool, and
let me go be friends with them, you know, And
I think we just like really gravitated toward each other

(44:50):
and we became quick friends, and we were like, Okay,
I feel like we all are like in this mi
that's where pole dance came from, right, like movement, sensuality, sexuality,
and embodiment. And because we were like kind of on

(45:12):
similar wavelengths, we were like, I feel like what we
were talking about earlier, like there's Boston is just not
very pole dance oriented. And we had these students who
are just like, we really feel moved by the way
that you teach and the things that you teach, and

(45:34):
we like, we really support you. And we were talking
about and we were just like maybe we should just
you know yet, but to go and see what happens.
And it sold out like that day in like hours,
like two or three hours, and I was like, oh, wow,
y'all really trying to move your bodies. You're trying to
make something shake. I love that. So I'm really very excited,

(45:58):
very like grateful and humbled and just like excited to
teach it. We're gonna like break it down into different concepts.
It's a two hour workshop. So we'll each teach a
portion after the warm up and teach different concepts like
level transitions and embodiment, audience engagement, control, you know. And

(46:23):
for me, like I'll really be focusing on like level transitions, musicality,
and control. All are things that have been really important
in my movement background. As a drill team member, we're
doing these like really choppy, you know movements, and precision
and control is really important. Like those are the things
we're getting graded on when we compete, because I competed

(46:44):
on drill team, right, Like we were the reigning team
in my city. But you know, neither here nor there,
but like those are the things that were really important,
Like musicality. There was no music, we were just marching around,
but as a liturgical dancer, the musicality was important. As
a major rig, we were dancing to drummers and trumpetears

(47:05):
and all this stuff. So that's really important to me.
It's like it's in my body to listen for those
cues when I dance, and it shows up in my
choreo and so and level transitions for me is like
when I go back and I watch my freestyles, I'm
like I'm just moving up and down that pole, moving
up and down that pole, And I'm like, I think
that's really cool, Like how can we leverage our strength

(47:27):
and our flexibility to move around the pole, to travel
up it and then to travel back down it and
quickly or slowly, but with controlled movements, and to make
those level transitions with musicality in the back of our mind.
So I feel really excited, very pleased, and you know,

(47:47):
the hope. It was very well received. We got a
lot of really positive feedback. The students are like, yay,
we've been asking for it, and we have a wait
list for a second one. So I feel good.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yeah, so you should probably make a second workshop.

Speaker 4 (48:05):
That is the goal. That is the goal.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Rang. I can't wait. I can't wait to see what's
work for you.

Speaker 4 (48:15):
I can't wait either. Very excited.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yes, that's so awesome that you're taking the big leap
to be a workshop leader, because it is a little intimidating,
and I think it is. It's good for everyone. I know,
like back in the day, it would be just like
the poll stars came out. I really do think it's
important for all teachers to get out and experience different

(48:41):
spaces and different communities.

Speaker 4 (48:43):
And share your terms. Yeah, I totally agree, and I
think it's a different skill set that you're holding too,
to be able to adapt to a new space, to
adapt to a potentially new group of students, and to
really spend time like focusing on some really specific skill set, right,

(49:07):
So yeah, I agree with you. I'm excited to give
it a whirl and see what happens, love it.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Hopefully more online classes with you in the future.

Speaker 4 (49:22):
Yeah, I'm really excited for that part of the workshop.
I'm like, you know, making sure that i can attend
to the students who are in person but also online,
and like, I've never taken a virtual class. No, I
did once. I did once during the pandemic and it
was fine, like it it was a good class. But

(49:45):
I've it's been a really long time since I've done this,
so I don't really remember it. But I'm excited to
like explore that aspect of teaching and to see like
how I feel about it and to see if it
might be possible to continue it in the future.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Hell yeah, right, it's a little different teaching mm hmm,
studio and online at the same time, but for the
most part, it's just like some extra students, but they're
all located like right here.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
That's true. That's true. And I think I spent all
this money on my post space. I'm like, perhaps I
should use it.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
There you go, yeah, hell yeah, mm hmm. Let's see.
Do you have any free time to do anything?

Speaker 4 (50:34):
And you're.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
I just wouldn't myself. Do you have any free time
to do anything other than pole stuff or hmmm, hobbies
or artistic talents.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
I like to dance. I like to dance. I'll sometimes
I'll travel out to Cambridge and I'll go, like, sasa,
we're chatta dancing, and I really enjoy that. That's actually
something that kept me like pretty active back in like

(51:13):
one I would like go like every week, same time
I went to the So I went to the lesson
and then the social which allows you to practice your skills,
and I ended up getting like pretty good at but chata.
I'm okay, it's alsa, but yeah, I really like doing that,
and so sometimes I'll go like sometimes I'll take a friend.
Sometimes I just go alone and just dance and do

(51:34):
the social dancing. What else do I like to do?
I love sitting on my couch and watching my shows.
There's nothing like rushing through work and being like, I
got to watch my show. I need to just relax
with a glass of wine and catch up on my show.

(51:55):
So that's kind of something I've been doing a lot.
I think the sun going down early has a little
bit to do with that. But yeah, I find a
lot of joy in binging my shows. I got a
whole list of shows I want to watch, so and
then I haven't done this in a while, but I
enjoy traveling. I enjoyed traveling. I went to New York

(52:17):
a couple of times. I've been home to Memphis, went
to New Jersey, went to Puerto Rico earlier this year
for the Black Girls post Feline, and I like stayed.
I went a little early and then I stayed after
a little bit to explore as well. And I haven't
done it as much because my muggle job has gotten
a little busy, like in terms of traveling. But yeah,

(52:39):
I enjoyed doing that too.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
How was the Black Girls retreat? Oh, I've seen so
many good things.

Speaker 4 (52:48):
It was really good. So that was like my first
retreat kind of thing, and it like it wasn't even
really a retreat. It was like a like a pole conference.
That's what it felt like. It felt like I was
attending a conference for my Mogo job, but way more fun,
like not boring or anything like that, way more relaxing,

(53:10):
and it was it was a good time. Like they
had some awesome instructors. There were some people there that
I'd taken classes with before, like workshops, but there were
some people that I got to take classes with for
the first time. Like one of those people is it's
baileyen Dish. Oh, She's amazing. She's a just a gorgeous mover.

(53:32):
I'm so much power in her moves and so strong
and like very sensual in her moves, very like embodied movement.
And I took actually a couple classes with her. I
took a class with Regina Marie who owns the Aerial
Loften in New York, and that was handstands actually, which
kind of cracked the code a little bit on like

(53:52):
headstands for me and I've been drilling that a little
bit more lately. Yeah, it was really cool. I met
some really awesome people too, that I have like really
tried my best to stay connected with. And they're like, oh,
are you going back next year? And I'm like, yes,
I am Apparently I was the first one to put

(54:13):
the deposit down like blasted me. I was like, yeah,
I didn't have to tell them that, but it's okay,
Like it's nothing I'm ashamed of. I was just like,
I'm so eager, you know, to go back and be
immersed in that community, and to go back to, you know,
Puerto Rico and the pole community there was awesome too,
and hoping to visit some of the studios there as well.

(54:36):
So I learned a lot. I met a lot of
really cool people, and it was nice to kind of
branch out and kind of get out of my comfort zone.
And also I was just like, you know what, there's
there's a lot of awesome pole dancers in Boston, but
there's not a lot of black and brown pole dancers here.

(54:59):
You have to go to other areas to really find
that community there. And so when I got to Puerto Rico,
I was like, oh, wow, there's like a lot of us,
like a lot. There were a hundred people there, like
one hundred participants. In this coming year, there's gonna be
two hundred. So I was like, Wow, that's amazing. It's

(55:22):
incredible to have a space like that, to be able
to be there and be comfortable and talk about what
you've experienced in the pole dance world, in the industry
as a studio owner, and so many different branches. There
were doctors and nurses, the dance therapists and physical therapists

(55:43):
and teachers and just it's interesting to see all the
ways that people were able to integrate pole into their life. Yeah,
it was a very special time. I'm very grateful for it.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
I love that I've heard so many good things and I, oh,
my goodness, Puerto Rico is incredible. Thank you for sharing
that with us, And I'm glad we actually kind of
brought it up lightly because if we follow, if people
follow you on social media, you're big with educating us
on how to serve the bipod community, which I believe

(56:19):
is so important. And you mentioned that in the Boston
area there's not many people of color polling, and I
would like to kind of talk a bit more about
that because I am Puerto Rican, not many people know
because of my light skin, I do get a lot
of that. How do I say that light skin treatment?
So I would like to talk about this so we

(56:40):
can better serve our pole community. How I can be
a better instructor, how people can be better studio owners
and get more colored people, brown, black and brown people
dancing out there.

Speaker 4 (56:53):
Yeah. Yeah, and it's unfortunately it can really be a
source subject for still for a lot of people who
are not black and brown. I do think that I've
been lucky to be surrounded by people students, colleagues who

(57:21):
really uplift bipop pole dancers and pole dance instructors. But
I also have been around people who who haven't. It's
been a I think, a particularly challenging year in the
I can't speak for like outside of Boston, but like,
I think it's been a very challenging year for the

(57:42):
whole dance community in Boston, in like the greater Boston area. Like,
I think there's been a lot of turmoil, a lot
of people who have been hurt, I think, who have
felt like miss treated like there's a lot of virtue
signaling and not people who are like they're talking but

(58:06):
not really like walking the talk sort of thing, and
that is demonstrated on like how they treated Bipop instructors
here and then particularly like the black film instructors are
queer instructors. So it's been like a really challenging year

(58:26):
trying to navigate being an instructor here working at multiple
studios here in the Boston area. And I think that
like when it comes down, like comes down to it,
the main thing that people should ideally be thinking about

(58:48):
is like we can't we can't divorce ourselves from sociohistorical context,
Like we just we just can't. It's it's not possible.
It does inform the way that we move, the things
that we think, the way that we act. It's often

(59:08):
informing the policies that studio owners make. It informs the
way that they treat instructors, even if they're not cognizant
of it. And when I say they're not cognizant of it,
like they're not cognizant of how it's being perceived by
people who are bipoc, you know. And so I think
that a lot of people have been hurt, they've been

(59:32):
mistreated unfortunately. I want to say that the main thing
about this particular situation and poll is that you have

(59:52):
to be willing to get over yourself. You have to
be willing to get over yourself. You know, good intentions
are good intentions, but good intentions are not enough because
intentions often don't equal impact. You know. I don't believe

(01:00:13):
that people. I don't believe that most people are walking
around intentionally intending to be discriminatory in their practices and
in the policies that they enact in how they treat instructors.
But I do think it happens, and it's an incredible

(01:00:35):
burden to carry to be on the receiving end of that.
I have a lot of love for these instructors that
I've experienced that and not just instructors, students student you know.
I think, you know, going back to the point of
just getting over yourself, like you have to be willing
to not sit in the guilt of having done something

(01:01:00):
that is discriminatory or even perceived as it like it, it
doesn't really matter, like the impact is there. And I
think even as business owners, your business will be impacted
if you don't acknowledge it, you know. And I think
because pole dance it comes from sex workers, right, it
comes from strippers. Pole dance as we know it, as

(01:01:23):
we teach it is coming from black and brown strippers.
And it's unfortunate that our black and brown instructors are
being treated the way that they are and being made
to feel like they're not valued in the spaces that
they're in when pole dance came from them. So I

(01:01:45):
think if you're hiring, you should be hiring people who
are black and brown for your space. But once you
hire them, you have to be willing to engage with
the history of hold ins and even further than that,
you just have to be willing to engage with the
history of this country and acknowledge the ways in which racism, homophobia,

(01:02:13):
like colorism, how does it impact the way that we
engage with our employees. I think it's highly unlikely that
people are lying about the things that they experience, because
why would people lie about it. It doesn't serve them.
They're out of a job, they've lost income, The majority

(01:02:37):
speaking is not really on their side, you know. So
I feel like there's been a lot of defensiveness, and
that's really unfortunate because people are not feeling like they
have to share their stories in the way that they're
sharing them for no reason. I feel like I'm rambling.

(01:02:58):
I feel like I'm rambling, But I think that when
it comes to supporting people, you bottom line is you
should try your best to believe them and to not
be defensive because there is historical context around being defensive too,

(01:03:19):
and to acknowledge like, Okay, this thing is happening. Is
there a better way that we could have handled it?
Is it possible that what this person is experiencing is
actually happening? Where's the pattern? Did we do a good
job communicating these policies and as a result, it's being

(01:03:40):
experienced in this way because we failed to communicate properly
to them. Right, So, I think just being willing to
get over yourself to not sit in the guild. I mean,
it's okay to be sad cry about it. I guess
like nobody wants to be accused of being colorists or
racist like that. That sucks, but also was just like

(01:04:03):
Tomorrow's a new day. And if you're sad about it,
imagine how the people experiencing it feel. It's so heartbreaking.
We're all just here to poll and it's unfortunate that
people are having our black and brown instructors are having
these experiences when they're here to learn. They're here to
serve this business and to make students feel seen, and

(01:04:25):
it's really sad that they haven't felt seen.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
I agree and want to thank you for sharing that
one thing that this podcast has helped us with. It's
reached a lot of people, and it is not just
happening in Boston. A recent event happened with some pole
friends of mine in Florida. Another event earlier this year
in California, regarding similar things in different post studios around

(01:04:53):
the country. It just happened. We get to interview you
and get to talk about it. Oh, I don't. Unfortunately,
it is happening around the country and it is sad.
I feel as humans, we all make mistakes unintentionally and
we need to learn from it. Like you said, sometimes

(01:05:17):
good intentions are meant to be good intentions, but it's
all about perception. Sometimes those good intentions don't come out
the way you want them to be. It's just sad
a lot of I've seen a lot of stories lately
and it breaks my heart these poor instructors around the
country going through this.

Speaker 4 (01:05:36):
Yeah. Yeah, I've seen that as well, with instructors and
students just having these really terrible experiences where they feel devalued,
not seeing mischaracterized. And in some of these situations there's

(01:05:59):
I think, like point like there's racism happening or homophobia
or transphobia or you know, whatever it is. I think
the isn'ts and the eas are actually happening, but it's hurtful.
But I think at the end of the day, people
just want you to be better. And I think with

(01:06:23):
some of the stories I've seen recently, studio owners are
doubling down. Yes, they're doubling down, and they're like, there
will be more students, And I'm just like, you know,
you have these values that you say your business follows,
but you're not actually living the values and how you

(01:06:44):
run the business, or how you treat your instructors, or
you're treating your instructors inequitably, which I think also happens
a lot too. And it's just like, it's really disheartening.
It's really unfortunate, and I actually genuinely do think think
we're stronger together and some fortunate that people are being
treated the way that they are. And I do believe

(01:07:07):
there's historical context to support a lot of these situations.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
I agree. Thank you truly for sharing that with us.
We created this podcast to share and sometimes, you know,
some tough topics are tough, especially this because we are
two light skinned podcasts. CO hosts, So how do you
bring this conversation up? How do you talk about it?
And it's kind of ripping the band aid off and

(01:07:37):
doing exactly that, talking about it and asking the questions.
So I thank you for your honesty, thank you for
asking it. Yeah, yes, OHMG, away from serious topics onto
good stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
I guess this is kind of all on the same thing, though.
Do you have any I know you share some self
care things, but you have any community care tips to
share with us?

Speaker 4 (01:08:09):
Now, I would say, like for the community, for students,
find your people, find your people. You know, it's kind
of like when you go to college, like there's a
niche for everybody. There's a niche for everybody in pole.

(01:08:29):
Sometimes you might have to start the niche yourself, but
typically there's at least one other person, Like statistically, there's
at least one other person who wants to join the niche.
And I've seen that, like with my students, Like they
come to my classes and they just like slowly come
closer and closer together, and they're like, oh, yeah, that's
my best friend. Like people find their best friends, their

(01:08:51):
bridesmaids in these classes, you know, So find your people,
find your community. Find the instructors that you trust, that
you that make you feel seeing and valued, and follow
them because that's where you'll grow. That's where you'll grow
and you'll become better. So like that's my community advice.

(01:09:11):
Find your people and stick to them. And then self care. Ooh,
that's a tough one, man. You gotta take care of yourself.
You got to take breaks. And it's hard because for
a lot of people, Pole is how they take care
of themselves, you know. And it's hard when Pole was

(01:09:33):
your safe space and it's not. And I have brought
witness to that being the case for so many people
this year, for it not becoming for it becoming an
unsafe space for them. And I would say, like, take breaks.
Pole will be there. That little slab of metal is

(01:09:54):
not going anywhere. Take a break and find something else
that makes your heart seeing. Take a moment for your
your brain to rest, I don't know, find a friend
through Pole, and then take a break together and say, okay,
like you're going back to class on this day. Okay,
I'm gonna be there with you, so you have your
support system. My students band together and they're like, oh,

(01:10:16):
you're going to this class. Are you going to this
day or that day. Okay, that day, I'm gonna go
with you. You know, so fine. I guess it goes
back to finding your community and sticking sticking, uh, sticking
to them.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
H thank you for sharing that old dancing, bringing everyone together.

Speaker 4 (01:10:36):
Everybody. Hopefully that's what it should do. And I think
my hope is that we can this this community, the
Boston community can kind of find its way back to
that because I feel like that's what it used to

(01:10:57):
be and this has just been a strange gear in
the Boston post scene. And I'm hoping that it, you know,
it rights it rights itself, you know, like finds itself
right the way that I think it used to be
for a lot of people that was so sobering, Like

(01:11:19):
let's talk about something fun. I'm like, whoa.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
Bringing the fun back into poll because it is supposed
to be fun and yeah, a self care for us
and not an added stressing in our life.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
Yeah, that's what I wanted to be for everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Yeah, yeah, not to bring it back to that, but
like as I'm teaching the new teachers, I'm trying to
you know, I'm part on them. You know, sometimes you
have to like get rid of your former training to
be a good pole teacher and to provide that space

(01:11:59):
for For me, I had to get rid of a
lot of my dance training and my dance class experience
because it was like when I was bringing those things
into this pole space, I was re traumatizing everyone rather
than allowing them to explore. So I think you're right,
it's really important to like take a step back and

(01:12:21):
like look to see what you were doing unconsciously to
maybe make some changes. Yeah, to not traumatize people.

Speaker 4 (01:12:33):
And it's good to not traumatize people. It's a very
good thing. We should all drive not to do that. Yeah,
too funny.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
I was going to say, except with the pole drop,
but no, we don't want to traumatize on the football.
I just love the looks you get sometimes when you've
done all this trick or combo. They're like, I think
I'm about to do that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:04):
You want me to go up there and do it?
Can we try first? The lower version there that's doing
on the floor, right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
That's that type of trauma is okay?

Speaker 4 (01:13:15):
Yeah, it's been so much fun.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
Is there anything else you would like to share with
us about being for poor instructors? For competitors for anything
else coming up, anything that you can think of?

Speaker 4 (01:13:30):
Hmmm, what else can I say? I was just saying,
do what makes you feel good, do what makes you happy.
I was talking to a friend of mine. It was
actually like one of my first few students, and they
were telling me that they just wanted to dance, like

(01:13:55):
they didn't want to do tricks. And there's nothing wrong
with doing tricks. I don't want nobody watching this, it'd
be like want said, don't do tricks. That's not what
I say it, that's not what I see it. There's
nothing wrong with tricks. But I do think that like
sometimes people force themselves to do things because they think
that's like what's socially expected. But I think, like I

(01:14:16):
was saying, there's niches in pole, Like some people only
take Russian Exotic dance classes. Some people only go to
ballet pole classes. Some people don't go to dance at all.
They just go to like splits training in handstands class,
you know, or acro pole like that's that's their niche,
that's what feels good to them. And I don't think

(01:14:37):
there's anything wrong with that. I think you should just
do what feels good. And I'm like, I'll teach tricks classes,
but I cannot teach tricks without Koreo. That is my niche,
you know, and I'm damn good at it. So you know, Like,
I think it's really important to do what feels good.
Like it's okay to push yourself to try new things.

(01:14:58):
But if it doesn't feel good, like that's okay. There's
other things to try. Or maybe you just do what
you know best, and there's nothing wrong with that either.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
I love that, Like goes a show like you should
always be listening to yourself and go with whatever floor
you're going. And you could be tricks one day, you
could be Dancy Poodie the next.

Speaker 4 (01:15:23):
Day, exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
Love it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
Make that money, don't let the money make.

Speaker 4 (01:15:31):
You well, you did it. I was just thinking about
that movie the other day.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
I've been I've needed to rewatch it. It's been on
my mind for a while. It's been calling me.

Speaker 4 (01:15:44):
I was just thinking about that the other day. I
don't know why I was, but such a great movie,
and it's true, make that money, don't let it make
you Yes too funny.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Thank you so much for this. This was so fun.
I had so much fun to know you a little
bit more.

Speaker 4 (01:16:01):
Yeah, it was so nice to talk to y'all and
get to know y'all a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
More, too, pleasure. I hope we can do this again
and meet and I can't wait to dance with you.

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
I'm really excited. I can't wait to wait back out there.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Hell yeah, thank you so much for being available to us.
I can't wait, all right that. Thank you everyone for
listening to or watching this episode of Pull on the
Call podcast. My name is Mandy mack.

Speaker 4 (01:16:37):
Our socks, I don't know that's okay. The most