Episode 757: What Ever Happened to Baby Jane (1962)

Episode Transcript
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People say good money to see this movie. When they
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Speaker 7 (00:46):
Whatever happened to baby Jane? To seek the answer to
that question, we will follow a man plotting a murder
highly specialized work. Robert Aldrich has considerable experience such matters.
He has a dozen successful pictures to his credit. His
stars are Betty Davis and Joan Crawford. The scene an

(01:10):
italianate villa in a once fashionable section of Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Its halls, once.

Speaker 7 (01:16):
Crowded with the bright, the beautiful, and the celebrated, now
echo only to hectic whispers, the insistent call of a
buzzer that are left unanswered, a telephone that has become
an object of fear, a supper tray that will not
be touched, a window barred against the world, a hammer,

(01:39):
A mute scrawl crying for help from these elements. Director
Aldridge his fashioned ocean picture with a curious title, Whatever
Happened to Baby Jane. Betty Davis is Jane Hudson. Joan

(01:59):
Crawford is Blanchardson. But we must warn you if you're
long standing fans of Miss Davis and miss Crawford, this
motion picture is quite unlike anything they have ever done.
There's a bold essay in the art of the macabre,
a venture to the ultimate reaches of terror. A motion
picture definitely not for the screaming, and we beg you

(02:24):
which your intention bills to the screaming point A shock
after shock assaults your senses. Try to remember that this
is only a motion picture.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Try and remember.

Speaker 7 (02:44):
No, we we can't show you anymore. Only when you
see whatever happened to Baby Jane will you know? And
the answer is total suspense.

Speaker 8 (02:59):
Welcome to the projection booth.

Speaker 9 (03:01):
I'm your host. Mike White.

Speaker 8 (03:02):
Joined me once again is mister Otto Bruno.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Mike, happy as always to be with you.

Speaker 8 (03:08):
Also joining us is mister Tim Madigan.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Heavy But by the way, Mike, I don't want to
be a stickler or anything. But it's doctor Tim Madden.
Oh okay.

Speaker 8 (03:20):
Also joining us is doctor Tim Madigan.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
He's my PCP.

Speaker 5 (03:24):
Thank What do you got there?

Speaker 10 (03:27):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (03:27):
This is a gallon of PCP.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Wow A gallon? Yeah, that's that's illegal.

Speaker 5 (03:37):
Right, It's a felony.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
It's a felony.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yes, wow, And uh here you are with it anyway?

Speaker 2 (03:43):
That is wow.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
I didn't even know it came in liquid form science.

Speaker 8 (03:50):
We are kicking off a month discussing film starring starring
might be a little stretch featuring Sure Yeah, featuring the
oversized thespian himself, Victor Bruno. We start things off with
Robert Aldrich's Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, the ground zero
of the sub genre called hag exploitation or Psycho Biddy.
The film stars Joan Crawford and Betty Davis as Blanche

(04:12):
and Baby Jane Hudson. We will be spoiling this film
as well as the FX show Feud as we go along,
So if we don't want anything ruined, please turn off
the podcast and come back after you've seen the movie
and or the show, and we will still be here. So, Otto,
when was the first time you saw Baby Jane? And
what did you think?

Speaker 2 (04:30):
I never saw this movie when I was young because
I was never really interested in horror films or things
like that. I was more interested in watching old Jewish comedians.
I think I saw this film for the first time
about ten years ago, just because I felt I needed

(04:52):
to fill in that hole in my movie viewing checklist,
and I watched. In fact, I think I watched one
evening after another. I watched this and then the follow up,
Sweet Charlotte. I think I liked Sweet Charlotte better, but

(05:12):
Doctor Tim and I just watched Baby Jane again this week,
and I have to say I think I enjoyed it
more this time around as an exercise in camp, more
than I did as a serious picture. And I know
some people would probably take offense to that. It certainly
brings up some fascinating ideas. Most interesting for me is

(05:39):
probably how Hollywood historically, maybe not so much right now
in this moment, but historically tossed away women who were
over forty years old. So in that sense, that's probably
the most interesting serious theme of this film to me.

(06:00):
But it's fun. Who's going to argue it's fun to
see Betty Davis torturing Joan Crawford. It's just a good time.

Speaker 8 (06:09):
And Tim, how about yourself?

Speaker 3 (06:11):
I know I saw it many times on television when
I was a kid, primarily because Unlike Otto, I was
a monster kid. I loved watching old monster movies, and
rightly or wrongly, it was often lumped in with In fact,
it wasn't until many years later that I started to

(06:33):
watch Joan Crawford and Betty Davis movies that were not
their exploitation or horror films. And I just saw it again.
Otto and I watched it a couple days ago, but
I saw it about five years ago at an event
called the Monster Bash, which occurs in Mars, Pennsylvania, twice

(07:00):
a year people who love old monster movies, and it
seemed very appropriate. And that was the one and only
time I ever saw it on the big screen, which
is of course how most of these movies were meant
to be seen, but many of them we have never
seen that way.

Speaker 8 (07:17):
That must have been quite a treat, because this movie
is beautiful to look at. The cinematography is fantastic.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
It is, and also the music is great by Frank Devol,
who I believe also did the music for Sweet Charlotte
and many other great films. Of course, and I remember
him as Happy Kind on Fernwood Tonight.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
That's all I can think of when I think of
Frank Devall's one of the.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
Great deadpan performances of all time.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (07:50):
I like the music, how it plays with the letter
to Daddy theme. And then there's the Baby Jane theme itself,
which I guess because I know for sure. When we
talk about Rush Sweets Charlotte in two Weeks, there was
a theme written for it.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
And who is it?

Speaker 8 (08:05):
Petty Page?

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, yeah, that was a hit.

Speaker 8 (08:09):
And then this one. I have never heard it sung
by anybody other than Betty Davis, though not in the movie.
It's just outside of the movie.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
She sang it. Where did she sing on that? Slivon?

Speaker 9 (08:21):
Is that?

Speaker 3 (08:22):
When she sang Williams Show? We watched the clip.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
From Oh that's the one Andy Williams Show.

Speaker 8 (08:27):
She put out a forty five of it too.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
We watched the clip that the Cookie Bear would come
out and dance with her, but no such luck.

Speaker 8 (08:36):
It took me a long time to see this one.
I was more aware of its reputation than I was
of the film itself. I haven't seen that many films
by Betty Davis or Joan Crawford when I was in school.
It was probably the first time that I saw movies
by either of them. I was in a women in
Film class and I got to see Now Voyager and

(08:58):
then a few weeks later Miller Pierce. So that was
a very interesting experience, and especially to see both of
those films. I think, if you throw Stella Dallas in there,
you've got this real triumvirate of self possessed women with
their daughters. I like how Betty Davis is the daughter
and Now Voyager, but just yeah, and then who is

(09:20):
it Paul Henry and that one with her such a
great movie, And yeah, I really only ever knew of
this from all of the pop culture, and when I
finally watched it, the pop culture picks up on two
or three little things from this movie. It really doesn't
tell you what the whole story is, and it really
just basically has a woman in crazy makeup torturing a

(09:42):
woman in a wheelchair. And that's all I knew about
this film. I didn't know the whole backstory about Joan
and Betty and why this was such a big deal
that they're being cast together in this film for the
first time. But I loved it, really enjoyed it. I
liked it the first time, but now I think I
love this. This movie had a really nice time revisiting
this and then learning all the things that went on

(10:04):
behind the scenes, and just seeing another Robert Aldrich film,
because I really like him, and he's such a workmanlike director,
but he brings some pinash to things.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, one of my favorite films is The Flight of
the Phoenix, which is so radically different from this film,
but as you say, he is an excellent director, just
to keeping your attention as you watch the various characters
in motion.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Of course, the first Robert Aldrich film I ever saw
was probably For for Texas, totally funny with Frank and
Dean and Victor Buono because the rat Pack. Certainly Frank
and Dean seem to like Victor Buono because he was

(10:55):
in four for Texas and then just a short while
after that he was in Robin and the Seven Hoods
with them as well. So that's probably the first Aldrich
that I ever saw. But see, my experience was totally
different from you guys, because my film fanaticism really began

(11:17):
with the old Warner Brother catalog of the thirties and forties,
because our local PBS station used to show those movies
on Friday night at around ten ten thirty and then
they would replay the same film on Sunday afternoon. So
the first time I ever saw Betty Davis I know exactly,

(11:40):
which I don't usually I usually can't pinpoint, but I
know exactly. The first time I saw was in Petrified
Forest opposite Bogart and Leslie Howard from nineteen thirty six.
So I actually did see the young Betty Davis long
before I saw anything like whatever Happened to Baby Jane

(12:01):
or Sweet Charlotte or things like that. So I guess
maybe if you see those things first, seeing her in
this maybe fights you even more because while she was
at the typical Hollywood glamour star, she wasn't attractive. When

(12:22):
you see some of her roles in the thirties, she
is attractive. And I again, because all the music I
follow was also from the thirties, forties or fifties, But
somebody in the seventies or eighties, didn't they make a
song Betty Davis eyes or something in Terns in Carns.
There you go.

Speaker 8 (12:43):
I found it interesting that they actually use clips from
some of their old films in this film, and that
they're using the I can't remember which movie it is
with Betty Davis, but they're using that as an example
of what a poor actress she is, and Bert Freed
is just out there in the little viewing room just
like she's terrible, and I'm like, I don't see anything

(13:05):
wrong with this performance.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
She's exactly very capable actress.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
And apparently she gave her permission to show those clips
rather were.

Speaker 8 (13:16):
Ah, it's our own harshest critics.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
I thought I read somewhere where they asked her, are
there any bad films that we could show from when
you were really young? If from the first five years
they're all bad or something like that, which is probably
not the type of remark that you would have gotten
from Joan Crawford.

Speaker 8 (13:39):
True.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
True, But I don't think if like Davis didn't think
much of those early Warner Brother films she started with
them Watt in thirty one or something thirty one, thirty two,
But I don't think she really hit her stride there
till thirty five six, certainly because I believe, I know

(14:00):
thirty six was petrified for us. It might also thirty
six or thirty seven thirty eight was when Jezebel came
out as well, and Jezebel I think is what really
propelled her.

Speaker 8 (14:10):
I remember watching that in a different film class. Our
professor showed us that one too. It took me years
and years to see All About Eve, and when I
finally saw it, I was like, I don't see what
the big deal is about, but I need to revisit
that one.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, I love All About Eve. I love that film.
I just love what Mankowitz did in that very short
time period late forties, early fifties, and All About Eve
is in the middle of all that.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
I still have a lot of memories of seeing Betty
Davis on talk shows like Johnny Carson and MERV Griffin,
and she would often rehash the story of her feud
with Joan Crawford, who by that time was long dead,
And even as a kid, I had the feeling she

(15:02):
wasn't doing herself any favors, coming across a crabby, bitter
woman talking about feuds with people who were long gone.
And I'm sure, sadly that was one of the reasons
the talk show host liked her as a guest, because
she would bad mouth people. The last person I want

(15:25):
to ask you about is the lady with whom, in
many minds you are forever linked.

Speaker 8 (15:30):
That's Joan Crawford.

Speaker 11 (15:32):
I know. It's an incredible way, forever linked. We made
one film. It's funny that remained well. It was a
good movie. It was a good movie. As far as
making the film with her, she was on time, she
knew her lines. She's basically was a pro.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
But we're very different.

Speaker 11 (15:51):
Kind of women, very different kind of actresses.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yes, but afterwards.

Speaker 11 (15:59):
Saw to it. I didn't get the Oscar for Baby Jane.
She went to all the New York nominees and said,
if you can't get out there, I'll except your award
and please do not vote for her. She was so jealous.
She was a fool idea, we had great percentage. If
I had won that Oscar would have made a million

(16:21):
more dollars on the film. That would always happened. So
she wasn't very smart about what she did.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
You hurt by the memory of the.

Speaker 11 (16:29):
I was furious because that would have made me the
first person with three and as you know, I always
have to be first as an eeries. Yes, and I
should have had it all very modest of me. I
should have had it for that year, no question.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
The exception is I take care of that you can
see on YouTube he does as he did with so
many great stars. A long interview was heard, and he's
very good at keeping her off that track or maybe
just a little bit of it to spice things up.
By Quite often you just see her come on, and
especially as someone who hadn't seen her other movies, I

(17:14):
just wondered, why what's going on here, especially her poststroke
period where she just seemed bad physical shape as well
as bad tempered.

Speaker 8 (17:25):
Yeah, when it comes to Joan Crawford, other than Mildred Pierce,
I don't think I've seen that many early Crawford roles.
And for me growing up when I did, it was
the Mommy Derist era, so it was just that's all
you ever heard about Joan Crawford. Or you would see
Carol Burnett portraying Joan Crawford with some of the stories

(17:45):
that were coming out. So yeah, that was all I
knew about her for the longest time. It took until
I started to see things, ironically, until I saw a
straight Jacket where I was like, oh, she's really good.
Liked her a lot in Mildred Pears, but it was
such a foreign film for me, just because it was
so old and it had a different mentality to it,

(18:08):
and I was like, yeah, okay, this is a good film.
Of course, some people consider it a great film. But
when I saw a straight Jacket, I said, oh, okay,
now I kind of see what all the hype is about.
And that was her when she was quote unquote pastor prime.
Because I do like this idea of them talking about
what happens to actresses after their prime. But for me too,

(18:31):
this movie talks a lot about the way in which
we ingest movies that we and also entertainment. Just the
whole idea of starting off with the whole vaudeville thing
with Baby Jane, and then the medium kind of changes.
By the time she gets into movies, she's made more
for the vaudeville stage than for the movie set. And

(18:55):
then her sister is the one that kind of takes
over that she becomes the big star. And then by
the time they're all washed up what's happening, they're watching
or people are watching them on television, and that's the
only way that people are getting exposed to some of
these older films is through TV. Through this tiny little screen.
We get that huge stage at the beginning, we get
the big screen that Bert Freed is watching, and then

(19:18):
everything's reduced to that tiny little TV with all the
commercials from dog food and stuff in the middle of it.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
So that was the one aspect I was spared by
watching the old movies on PBS because they would run
them commercial free. So that was great for me, and
I always was, from a very young age, was more
aware of Betty Davis than I was of Joan Crawford, because,
as I say, I guess I was just lucky. But

(19:47):
at the moment in time I started watching these movies
on Friday nights. They must have gotten a deal on
the Warner Brothers library or something, because all of these films.
I didn't realize it then, but now I've looked back
on it. I've even looked up the old newspapers clippings
of them. All of them were Warner Brothers pictures. And

(20:11):
of course Crawford in the thirties and forties early forties
at least was an MGM star, And even as I
got older and started watching all different classic movies, MGM
was certainly not my favorite studio to watch. If you
haven't seen much Joan Crawford, the one movie that was

(20:34):
Another one that I needed to fill out my scorecard
because I had never seen it, and I watched it
about a year or so ago is The Women, directed
by George Cukor, and the whole film is just women.
There are no men whatsoever in the movie. It's nineteen
thirty nine. They are discussed and mentioned, but you never see.

(20:58):
And it has Joan Crawford, Rosalind Russell, Norma Shearer, who
at the time was on her last legs as the
Queen of MGM, and a lot of great female sis
and Crawford. Really Crawford and Shearer and probably Russell are
the three main components of that. And Crawford is great

(21:21):
in that. But yeah, I'm like you, I had just
not seen. Of course, I've seen Mildred Peers.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Grand Hotel also, that's a classic that we've all seen,
and she's excellent in that. I was just thinking about
the Women, these scenes with Norma Shearer and Joan Crawford's
somewhat mirror baby Jane in the sense that Norma Shearer
is this wonderful, lovely person who's being so mistreated by

(21:51):
Joan Crawford and then later in her career Crawford around
the Mildred Pierce Era wanted to always be the nice
person who's often put upon, and the audience is sympathetic
towards But in both cases it's the villain us who

(22:11):
gets the bulk of the attention and Betty Davis's case
the Academy Award nomination. So playing a nice person often
doesn't do you good if you're just in awards.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Nice guys finished last.

Speaker 8 (22:28):
The amount of Joan Crawford is very apropos when you
read the book, and I know, Tim, you just finished
reading the book. I think it's a great adaptation. I
think that they did a really good job with that.
And not only do they do a good job as
far as condensing this rather sprawling story into a very
tight package, but also doing the really smart thing of

(22:51):
keeping Joan and Betty off screen for a long time.
Like we start with them as little kids, you get
to see what their relation is like there, we go
into the thirties and we see the screening room and
bert Fred's reaction there, and then we move into we
just see them on screens. We see in the screening room,

(23:13):
and then when the neighbor comes home and walks in
and her daughter's watching television. We see a Joan Crawford
movie on television, I want to say, I counted yesterday.
It takes at least what eighteen minutes before we finally
see Joan Crawford in the Flesh, and we get to
see that stark difference between her in those early films.

(23:34):
And they did a great job with the makeup on her,
because there are some shots in the movie, and I
know we'll talk about feud later, there's some shots in
the movie where she looks really young and looks great,
and I'm saying, like in the nineteen sixty two film,
she looks fantastic, but then when you see her for
the first time, she's got all these bags under her
eyes and just does not look very good at all.
And of course towards the end she looks terrible. But

(23:57):
I thought that was nice that we have a little
bit of a shock when we see her, But then
when we see Benny Davis, that's a real shock.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
We wonder if Eldrich was influenced at all by the
horror movies like Frankenstein and Dracula, which have the same formula.
You don't show the monster, you hear about the monster,
and you have various villagers telling you about the monster,
but you don't actually experience the monster for some time,

(24:27):
or like Jaws. Grg Bredaman. I was just talking to
a friend of mine's the fiftieth anniversary, of course, of Jaws,
and we both loved it as we saw it when
it originally came out, and he said, his son watched
it and said, it's so slow. It's not forty five
minutes until you know, after the initial attack, you get
another attack. So I said, tell him to watch Jaws two, three, four,

(24:50):
and five. You get get attacks every minute or so.
Oh yeah, but then yet you lose the suspense. And
then I think that's one of the reasons Baby Jane
still holds up, because even though we now know what
we're going to experience, some people, of course will be
seeing it for the first time with no knowledge of

(25:11):
the actresses. But it has entered popular culture, particularly Betty
Davis in that garish outfit and the white pancake makeup.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
The White Pancake Mega definitely creeped me out.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
It's the stuff of nightmares.

Speaker 8 (25:29):
It's those big curls, big nasty curls that she has
in the back and the darkness around her eyes and
her lips. She looks almost like a no character, like
a kabookie character. At times, she's so white with the
black markings across her.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Well, here's a stretch for you guys. One of the
things I think when you see this movie is the Waltons, really,
And the reason is the first time I ever saw
The Homecoming on TV, I was watched seven I guess

(26:07):
when it came out. And if you remember, there's a
scene in The Homecoming where Elizabeth gets this gift, this
doll they were raffling off or whatever it is, and
she opens it up and it was a porcelain doll,
so that part of her face and head were smashed
in basically, and she throws it down because she's scared

(26:31):
of it. And it scared me as a kid. So
when I'm watching Baby Jane and you see those big
porcelain dolls that are supposed to be Baby Jane, that's
like the only thing I think of. And then the
makeup on Betty Davis, it's like for me, porcelain, certain
types of porcelain dolls and clowns which are the type

(26:55):
of makeup that Betty Davis were are inherently creepy of them.
So you put those two things together in this movie,
and then that kind of works to creep me out
as well. Those two elements of it.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
Well, again we're jumping ahead about feud. But in that show,
Betty Davis comes up with the formulas that were to
put the white pancake makeup on. And I don't know
if that is actually the case or not, but in
the novel that's not the case. It's not really described
what she looks like, so that definitely, whether it was

(27:33):
her idea or someone else's, that really does add to
the horror.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
I feel like I read it was her, like it
really was her idea.

Speaker 8 (27:43):
Yeah, they don't really have that many descriptive Pharaoh. We'll
talk more about Jane than he will about Blanche. It
isn't until towards the end of the book where he
talks about Blanche with her gray hair, and I was like, oh,
I never really pictured her having gray hair. When he
talks about Jane, he talks mostly about how alcohol has

(28:04):
ravens her body, how puffy she is, how bloated she is,
that she's just overweight and looks ridiculous in some of
these clothes that she wears. She just seems like what
Bebby Davis is bringing to this. The dowdiness can only
take you so far. The makeup really pushes us into
that horror territory.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
Still dressing up like baby Jane, because that's another aspect
of horror as child stars who don't make it, as
opposed to like the Jodie Foster types who have a
great career above and beyond being children actors that we

(28:45):
know so many the depressing and sometimes horrifying stories about
those who don't, and also taps into that in a
very visceral way.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
She's basically clinging to the only six us she had.
I hate to put it this way, but I think
we probably have all known people who's who you meet
them as adults. They could be in their fifties or sixties,
and they still talk about high school and their glory

(29:20):
days of high.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
School, boring stories of glory days.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
But it's sad because the impression it leaves is that
was the best they ever did, That was the best
time of their life, and that's it's sad empathetic, and that,
of course is what Jane is. Give Betty Davis credit.
She's playing this monster but she's playing a monster who
you also feel sympathy.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
For, like Boris Karloff and Frankenstein.

Speaker 8 (29:51):
What's the little girl in the Bad Seat all grown up?
Because Jane is not a pleasant person when you get
to see how she is de manding ice cream and
I love that it's ice cream at the beginning, it's
ice cream at the end. This whole like, no, I
want ice cream, and the things in the book where
it's all the people who are and I think it's
in the movie too, where they're whispering just like, oh,
I didn't know that she was like that. Ohthough, what

(30:14):
a terrible child she is. And it was before social media,
so she just kept on being what she was. But
then her sister starts to eclipse her. And there's a
whole thing in the book and it might come in
here where it's like in part of Blanche's contract is
that Jane has to have a role in every movie
that Blanche is in. And I think that's a nice thing,

(30:36):
but at the same time, I'm like, is she just
lording it over Jane now that she's the big star
and Jane is just the hanger on? Because it really
flipped the tables and to flip the tables when you're
like twelve years old. That's got to be really damaging
to your psyche.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Well, it could be reminiscent of John Ford, how his
brother Francis was the star in Silent Film, and then
Francis hired john Ford for some of his silent pictures
and really put his brother, his younger brother, the ringer.
And then, of course for years after that, when john

(31:12):
Ford became the number one director in Hollywood, Francis would
almost always have a role, but it would always be
a minor role. Usually was nothing to really sink your teeth,
nothing that was going to get him any kind of
award nominations, to be sure. So the question is was
he helping his brother out or was he lording it

(31:33):
over him because he could at that point in time.
So it certainly is a reasonable question to ask.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Maybe that could be a new Ryan Murphy feud the
Ford brothers. Getting back to the clause where Jane has
to appear in Blanche's movies. In the film, I think
the implication seems to be she's just trying to help
her sister. But having just read the novel, it's very
explicit that Blanche says, no, I did that because I

(32:05):
knew how terrible she was and that she would look
bad and people would say that. So you get the
twist at the end that Blanche really was the manipulator
getting revenge, is an evil person, Whereas having rewatched the movie,
I don't know, perhaps because Joan Crawford didn't want to

(32:29):
go that far, or just some of it was internal
to Blanche in the books. Unless it's expressed, we wouldn't
know that. But I thought that did add yet another
macabre twist. Blanche is getting her revenge on this sister
who had treated her so badly when they were both children.

Speaker 8 (32:52):
I wish they had gone farther. I wish they had
done that because I think, knowing that she's a manipulator
who has been suffering because of what she set up,
that she basically she's doctor Frankenstein and she made the monster.
The monster was already there, but she just added more
fuel to the fire as far as oh, yeah, I'm

(33:14):
going to get you these roles and help out my sister,
and of course we're one big, happy family, We're going
to stick together. But yeah, just look at her. Look
at how funny this is. Look at how awful my
sister is, and look at how great of a star
I am. I'm the one that's going to win the awards.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Remember in that earlier scene that you mentioned, Mike, where
people are murmuring outside the stage door. One of the murmurs,
some lady says, I always say, you have to blame
the parents, And they don't go into a lot of
it with the parents. But obviously baby Jane was her
father's favorite, and the mother just seems ineffectual and kind

(33:57):
of lays back and let's whatever psychological abuse happened. So
that's another aspect that you're saying. They didn't really go
fully into that. I don't know if they go more
in the novel, but they certainly didn't do it in
the film.

Speaker 8 (34:15):
There are moments in the novel where she talks about, oh,
I would like to go live at the beach, and
the best times I ever had were hanging out with
Daddy at the beach, And we don't really get that here.
Of course, the return to the beach at the end,
But for me, it's when our boy Victor Blono as
Edwin Flagg, is looking through all of that sheet music

(34:37):
and every single freaking song has Daddy in the title,
and I'm just like, who wrote this sheet music? Was
this Electra herself? What's happening here? It was? That's when
it comes up, and I'm just like, oh man, this
is creepy. How much she loved her daddy. It just
and the way too that Betty's Davis says daddie, just
that emphasis on the syllables. Really just every time she doesn't,

(35:00):
it just hits me.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
There's not many scenes in any movie creepier than when
she's singing the song with Buono accompanying her.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
Off keep catterwalling o doo and I both agreed at
the end when I know it's spoiler alert, but I
guess you tell everybody we presume you've seen this. When
Jane is dancing on the beach, it would have been
even better if she started singing the song.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
And let's give Victor his props for really, like I
said at the beginning, this time around, I really saw
the campinginess of the film, but maybe not intentional campinginess.
Whereas Victor Buono, he inject's humor into this and it's

(35:52):
obviously on purpose what he does, just his looks and
stuff like that, which I think is a nice break
from some of the tension, although maybe if you're watching
it the first time, you don't even exactly know how
to respond to his responses to it. But he's got
his own parental issues and hang ups with his mother

(36:18):
or his secretary as he tries to pass her off.
But there's parts of it where he's just very funny,
just by what he's doing with his face, because he
walks into that house and once he stims that, once
he sits down at the piano, and that look he
gives when he's looking at all of the sheet music,

(36:41):
he's already thinking like, oh, dear god, dude, I need
the money. This bad What have I gotten myself in for?
I kind of like the fact that he was the
one that was able to purposely bring some humor to
it without changing the meaning in any way.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
See adds to the viewer's appreciation because as he's going
through those books, we don't see most of the pictures,
but from his expression we get a good sense of
just how grotesque all of this is. And yet we
also know, as you say, he wants the gig, he's
desperate for money, and he senses that that's a big,

(37:24):
expensive house. There must be money here. So it's just
when he's like encouraging Jane in her delusions, it's both
amusing but also very pathetic at the same time.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah, he's a phony, a sister, whatever your con man
as well, whatever you want to say. They're talking about
the money, and she's saying, I don't know if I
can get it that quickly, and you see him pulling
back and losing interest. And then when she says I
can have five hundred or whatever it is for you
by tomorrow, then immediately he gets all enthusiastic again and says, Oh, great,

(38:02):
we're gonna we're gonna have You're gonna be out there again.
It'll be a whole new career. All this bs.

Speaker 8 (38:09):
He reminds me a little bit of ignacious Jay Riley
when it comes to he doesn't want to work. He
hates everything around him, nothing is good enough for him.
He thinks he's better than everybody else that comes through.
I think a little bit more in the book than
in the movie. But this whole thing of Yeah, the
weird relationship he has with his mother, he seems to

(38:29):
just despise her, doesn't even want her to talk or anything.
He's just like, oh, it's like nails on a chalkboard
every single time this woman opens her mouth. But yeah,
using her to be his secretary, and yeah, trying to
get this money. He chiseled this money out of Jane.
I'm like, all right, because he doesn't want to work

(38:51):
and he knows that his mother is not bringing in
any income, and he really actually wants to eat. He
likes his food. Definitely. Yeah, I thought that he played
that very well. And yeah, he says close to I
think first it's Elvira, the maid who's there, our surrogate.

(39:11):
As far as experiencing these two from an outside point
of view, maybe even the neighbor, Missus Bates. I think
it switches from Bates to Elvira to once Alvira's out
of the picture, to Edwin, and that's when we really
get to experience, Like he gets to go in the house,
and so does Elvira, of course, but Missus Bates is

(39:34):
always on the outside, so she doesn't get most of
the picture. She just occasionally will see Jane or see
something in the window up above. In those barred windows.
The bars look really ominous on that house.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
The bars around the window, But there's clearly no glass,
so Blanche could have yelled out to missus Bates for
help more than once. She definitely he doesn't do it.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
Yeah, in the novel, if I recall correctly, by the time,
it's much later in the novel that she throws the note,
and by that time she's really been starved and hasn't
had water, so she actually tries to screen but can't.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
And that makes more sense.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
That's a lost opportunity, because, yeah, I understand for dramatic
purposes tossing the note out and then having Blanche find it.
In the novel, Missus Bates puts it in her pocket
and doesn't open it because there's some distraction. Also, by
the way, Mike, you just made that, I think a
very fascinating point as we celebrate Victor Bono. What a

(40:40):
lost opportunity that he didn't star in a film version
of a Confederacy of Dunces.

Speaker 8 (40:47):
I think he would have been great.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Right, I agree one hundred percent. They've been trying to
make a film of it for decades now, and for
various reasons it's never happened. But who would have been
better in such a role.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
He left us too soon?

Speaker 3 (41:04):
He did well, maybe Ai, we can make one with
the now it's not too late. No talk about horror.

Speaker 8 (41:12):
So much of the book is with Blanche in her
room and her thoughts. It reminds me a little bit
of Gerald's game, the Stephen King Book. And sometimes she's
even tied up just her there and the whole thing
with the food terrorism and just that she gets so
petrified by the dead bird. And I like that because

(41:34):
I think it's just a dead bird from the garden.
I don't think it's her bird. I think that adding
it as her bird really brings that home. I don't
even think the rats in there. I think she just
does the novel. Yeah. I think they just do two
things right. One is the bird and then the other
one is sand in the.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Football sand on Blanch's food, Yeah, which is.

Speaker 8 (41:56):
Me because it also ties into the beach. But she
gets so petrof by that she really starts to starve herself.
Doesn't want to take that close off or the white
cloth that they put over the food in the book,
and we just yeah, we spend a lot of time
in her room with her, and then at one point
she just drops out of the narrative for a while.

(42:17):
To the point where I was wondering if she was dead.
Like when they're trying to get that door open with
her inside, I was like, is she dead in there?
I don't know what's happening right now. I thought that
they handled that very well, both in the book and
in the movie, that she's just tied up. But again
to your point, Otto like the elvirus, I don't hear

(42:38):
any noise. She's a Dina in the book, She's like,
I don't hear any noise behind the door, And I'm like,
did she knock her out or what? Because if you're
tied up, you can still at least go make some noise.
Twist that bar around, makes something rattle. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Isn't Elvira nervous? In the movie that she's given her
drugs and knocked herud out with her prescription drugs and Alvira,
God bless her. She carries the torch of that great
tradition of underestimating just how nuts the person is you're

(43:16):
dealing with. Why would she When Tim and I were
watching it, I'm like, oh, come on, don't put the
hammer down. Hold on to that hammer for crying out loud.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Well, the cops. Let the cops handle it.

Speaker 8 (43:33):
And it's interesting because I am listening to the book
and in that the Adina does not sound like she's black.
The actress that is portraying her sounds more Southern. So
I was glad to see that there was an African
American actress cast in this role. She's got some agency.
But then, yeah, she gets killed. I'm like, okay, and

(43:55):
kind of that old horror trope, first one killed is
the black woman.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
One of the articles I read was speculating that maybe
that was done purposely because of the enslavement is you
and turning it around and having this black woman as
being the only one who could maybe save her for
a certain period of time obviously until she was killed.

(44:22):
But I had never even thought of that. I never
even put that together, but it's an interesting thought. I
can't remember what article was I read that in, But
you're right, you don't want to be a black character,
especially in those days, in this kind of film, no
good will come of it.

Speaker 8 (44:41):
This might be the only one of these quote unquote
exploitation films that I've ever watched. I went through the
long list of some of the other ones I want
to see lady in a cage sounds interesting, and yeah,
is it with Betty Davis playing twin roles?

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Dead Ringer? Now, because I've heard of Dead Ringer, but
I had never seen it, so I definitely want to see.
I have to admit my ignorance. I had never heard
the term exploitation, but I read a whole article on it. It
makes a lot of sense. You can't disagree with any
of the claims in all those roles that came after

(45:20):
this one, and certainly it probably gave not only Betty
Davis and Joan Crawford, but it certainly gave a great
later career to Shelley Winters, because she was in a
few of.

Speaker 8 (45:34):
Them when she was younger too.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
That raises another interesting point, as the connection between this
movie and Sunset Boulevard, which is sometimes considered, if not
the first, one of the first ha exploitation, because again,
you have very excellent actress from the past who was
what fifty years old, Gloria Swanson, and yet portrayed in

(46:01):
a ghoulish sort of way in a decaying mansion surrounded
by creepy people, and the William Holden character is not
unlike the Victor Bono character someone just wants to make
a buck and initially at least willing to take advantage
of this strange person, and then comes back to bite

(46:24):
them both. And then in a way, it's almost like
a mash up between Psycho and Sunset Boulevard, strange people
in a strange house, and yet again, very distinguished actresses
Academy Award winners after they made these movies. I think,
for the most part, Crawford and Davis, these were the

(46:46):
sort of roles that they had that they didn't seem
to be offered other roles. And as you say, they
set the groundwork for Debbie Reynolds and Shelley Winters and
a bunch of other actresses of a similar era to
play these roles. But it's both good and bad. Obviously

(47:07):
they were employed. I think Davis and Crawford both made
good amount of money from Baby Jane, but I don't
think it was their life's dream that this would be
the kind of roles they would have have for the
rest of their careers.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Even after the first time I saw this, I don't
remember exactly what I thought the first time, but over
the years I neglected to put this film in the
heading of one of my favorite type of films, and
that is movies about Hollywood, stories about Hollywood, and it

(47:44):
really is that. We think of it more as like
this horror film, but it's really is a movie about
Hollywood and what Hollywood does do now. In Sunset Bullvard,
of course the delusions, the self delusions, and the way
people are treated by the system, all that it bleeds.

(48:08):
It's not only the old people in that movie that
are the victim, but of course it bleeds into the
younger group, primarily through William Holden and destroys him as well,
Whereas in this particular film, Baby Jane, it's just destroying
the two of them. But it's still the same theme

(48:29):
about how basically Hollywood just choose you up and spit
you out. Once you're no longer of service to them,
they have no need for you, and you get tossed aside.
Like Tim said, Gloria Swanson was maybe fifty in Sunset Boulevard,
and of course we know Betty Davis was about fifty four,

(48:51):
I think when she made this movie.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
I don't think anyone knows what Chune Crawford's age was.
That's a secret. No one will ever find out don't
make sure of that, but comparable of it exactly.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
She couldn't have been more than three, four or five
years older at the most, so she was still probably
in her fifties as well, and they were just of
no use anymore once they reached that point. And now,
at least I think probably because of the money and

(49:26):
the fact that actors now as soon as they make
some good money, if they're lucky enough to make some
good money, they start their own production companies and they invest.
The smart ones have learned from the lessons of the past,
so they take a little more control of their careers

(49:47):
and have a little more power. But back in those
days it just wasn't possible.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
That's true. But on the other hand, a lot of
this still continue to think of Demi Moore and The Substance,
which was a horror movie about a once beautiful actress
and now doing everything she can try to get her
career back, and it's incredibly more grotesque and anything we

(50:15):
saw in Baby Jane, And that was supposedly going to
get her finally an Academy award, and then it turns out,
in fact Mikey Madison getting it. Some said maybe it's
like all about Eve or the whole idea. It's the
young actresses. They're still going to get the awards, and
you reach a certain age unless you're Meryl Street and

(50:39):
a few even Susan Sarandon, perhaps you're not going to
get the kind of roles you once had, and so
you have to take on these extreme sort of roles.

Speaker 8 (50:51):
I want to go back to what you guys were saying.
As far as Psycho and Sunset Boulevard, the houses in
those movies are always fascinating to me. The mausoleum that
Norman Desmond lives in, the idea of the tall staircase
that Arba Gas goes up and finds the shape of
the body of the wife. I think that's actually the

(51:12):
sister finds the shape in the bed where Norman's mother was.
This whole idea of keeping these things up in the attic,
the flowers in the attic kind of thing. Keep mom
up in the attic and then towards the end bring
her down and throw her in the cellar. But this
whole thing of keeping her up there, keeping Blanche away

(51:34):
from everybody, it's a nice thing where it's just like
this thing that's up there it's in the consciousness. I
always talk about how houses are like the subconscious, the
conscious and the aid type of thing. But it's up there,
it's still hanging out, and you'll never forget it, and
especially you won't forget it with that damn buzzer going
off all the time. I don't know if they could

(51:55):
have found a more annoying buzzer and Blanche. I would
probably have some problems with Blanche as well for doing that.
I don't know if I would serve her rat or anything,
but I would definitely say, hey, just one time, you
don't have to keep buzzing that.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
I'd serve her a dead bird at least for that
no In fact, of course that's not in the novel either,
which he shows how movies can add because just that
annoying noise, Are you right, every time you hear that buzzer,
you're more sympathetic to Jane.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
It's like.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
She wasn't already a little out there. That would definitely
drive you over the edge.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Since you guys are one up on me by having
read the novel. Is Joan Crawford's characters wheelchair Ballet, where
she just goes around in a cyclone like circle. Is
that in the novel?

Speaker 8 (52:46):
No, but I love that. I love that when she
just keeps spinning, spinning, like I have no idea what,
I'm so confused. Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
That's when I couldn't take it seriously anymore.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
I'm sure someone has probably done this, but we both
said they should put yakety sacks to get the music
there bad Benny Hill episode. The other thing about the
house as opposed to Sunset Boulevard and Psycho. In those
two cases, the house is isolated and just away from everyone,

(53:20):
whereas here, I think both the novel and certainly in
the movie, you got neighbors that are so close that
it's like a suburban area. It's described in the novel
as a nice house, but not a big mansion or anything.
So it's almost like a combination. You've got the creepy house,

(53:43):
but right it looks like a pretty nice neighborhood.

Speaker 8 (53:47):
And everything in that house seems like it's great, Like
the wallpaper. Everything just seems so dingy to me, and
it's very appropriate. I don't know how Alvira would feel
with me saying that, but the house is not bright inside.
The house is so shadowy and with all those lamps

(54:07):
and just the brick of brac going around. I'm surprised
there's not stuffed birds every place.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
It'd be Fairdell virus only came once a week, that's
True's got to cut her a little slack.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Also, the movie takes place in nineteen sixty two.

Speaker 8 (54:22):
It takes place yesterday, thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Oh okay. And the automobile accident was it thirty five
nineteen thirty five?

Speaker 8 (54:33):
I think so?

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Yeah, So basically we're talking twenty seven years that we
can assume neither of them have worked.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Yeah, they're living off blanches royalties or the money she
had made and was invested. Because it becomes clear that's
dwindling away is why she has to sell the house.
And of course, which we learned pretty early on, Jane
is listening and knows about that and doesn't want the house.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Sold, right, And at some point we can also assume
it was a steady stream of money going to the
liquor stores on a regular basis.

Speaker 8 (55:19):
That whole thing with Jane's superpower. I think she can
imitate Blanche's voice a little bit, but I love that
whole thing where it's just Joan Crawford's voice coming out
of Betty Davis.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Yeah, that was a little creepy, I thought too.

Speaker 8 (55:35):
So it reminds me of Beetlejuice doing Renona Ryder's character's
voice and Beetlejuice.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Maybe I should answer for it.

Speaker 5 (55:42):
Okay, I'm Lydia Dietson. I'm of sound mind.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
The man next to me is the one I want.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
You asked me. I'm answering.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yes, I love that man of mine.

Speaker 8 (55:51):
It's amazing to think that Victor's only twenty six in
this movie.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
It's astonishing he.

Speaker 8 (55:58):
Had only been doing Now. I know he probably had
roles on stage and things, but he had only been
acting in TV for three years at this point. This is,
as we mentioned, his introductory role special call out in
the credits. And these days sometimes they'll say, oh, in
introducing and it's like, how many times have they introduced
this character? But this is real. This is his introduction

(56:21):
to the world of movies, and yeah, he just kills it.
I think he's great, and I think some of those
great little touches that he has with his mom, like
when he's grabbing his face and he's just so frustrated
and style. I love it.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
And you sort of see some of those Buono mannerisms
that you will then recognize so well later on in
the later things that we may have like I don't
know about you, Mike, but for Tim and I would
imagine the first time we saw Victor Buono was either
Batman or the Odd Couple one or the.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Other Wild Wild West, Oh wow, the count in that Yeah,
that's right.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (57:06):
For me, it was definitely King Tut.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
He was my favorite villain. And actually, in addition to
being a horror fan, I was a big comic book reader.
So I read The Batman before it was cool or
obviously before it became such a huge industry, and I
knew that the main villains, like the Joker and the
Riddler and the Penguin, they were all in the stories,

(57:32):
but there was no King Tut. That was a very
different kind of take on a villain. And the other
thing I liked was a kind of Jeckel and Hyde
variation that he'd beat this awful villain, then he get
hit in the head, and he was this kindly professor
of Egyptology saying, Batman, what's going on? And since I

(57:55):
teach ethics, it's always been an interesting question if someone
really doesn't know, oh that they committed a crime, can
they be held responsible? So that always made me interested
in Bono.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Anyway, I had actually forgot about that Jackyl Hyde aspect
of King Tot's character. Now that you say it, I remember,
but I had forgotten that, and it brings an interesting
parallel with Bruce Wayne, although Bruce Wayne knows that he's
Bruce Wayne, but being someone other than the guy behind

(58:32):
the mask is interesting. And of course, please let us
give a shout out to the great Otto Premiger is
mister Freeze. I always loved Otto Premiger as mister Freese.

Speaker 8 (58:44):
That was where I knew Auto Premacher from before I
knew he was a director.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Yes, I remember seeing Stalac seventeen and it was so
bizarre to see him as his commandant, having known him
as mister Freeze. I think George Sanders was Freeze. It
was one what are the mister Freeze getting back to
all about Eve?

Speaker 2 (59:05):
George stand just like there was at least two Riddlers,
because in addition to Gorshen, there was John Aston Yeah right, yeah,
so yeah, some of them had multiple.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
Victor Bono was definitely a man of his time because
from sixty two until around the time of his death.
He seemed to have been constantly employed, not so much
in movies. We'll obviously be looking at some of the
other film roles he had, but if you go to
imdbd it's hard to see a TV show from the

(59:39):
period that he wasn't dead.

Speaker 8 (59:42):
Yeah, he was like ever present when I was growing up,
because you look at all those seventies TV shows and
he's just every place. And that was my era of
watching TV when I was a kid. Oh yeah, he
was always there. And seeing him in movies was an
oddity for me because I didn't watch a lot of
the films that he was in. It was mostly television.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
One of my favorite of his roles on television in
the I don't know if it was late seventies or
early eighties because the show stretched across was as Jim
Ignatowski's father in Taxi, which was just a fabulous episode

(01:00:23):
and was just so well written. In all those episodes
of that show are well written. But I loved him
as Ignatowski's father. He was just great.

Speaker 12 (01:00:34):
You are not without charm, my son. Thanks all right,
I'll tell you what I'll do. I'm willing to try
if you are if you want to be my son,
feel what it's like to be a rich man and
come home and roll in school. I'll see that you

(01:00:58):
get the best education and the best shave that money
can buy.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
And whur. That gets back to Mike's point about Bono's age.
You see him as Christopher Lloyd's father and you believe it.
It's very credible, and yet I think they were roughly
the same age.

Speaker 8 (01:01:19):
It is remarkable to see how he ages. Yeah, because
this is, like I said, twenty six years old, I think.
And he died when he was forty three. It's wild
because you look at him here and you look at him,
just what would that be twenty six forty three? Is
that sixteen years later when he dies?

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Yeah? He Victor Buono was eight months older than Christopher Lloyd.

Speaker 8 (01:01:51):
Wow. But you see him and he goes from this
stage to the grayer hair. He starts to lose his
hair pretty early on. He keeps those beautiful blue eyes
through all of this, but otherwise it just he starts
to change all around the facial features. Yeah, it's remarkable
to see what a difference it is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Yeah, that's incredible. Eight months difference and he was playing.
I wonder if that's the all.

Speaker 8 (01:02:16):
Time now, if it was a woman, she could be
like ten years younger and then play his mother.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
What was the movie with Sally Field and Tom Hanks
where he was a comedian and she plays his mother
and they hit punchline.

Speaker 8 (01:02:33):
That's but when you're saying that, I'm also thinking of
Forrest Gump.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
That's true too. Yeah, but it just shows how the
inequality as were male and female casting. I think my
favorite Victor Bono appearance on TV was in The Odd
Couple where he played the Exorcist. But that was the
sort of thing he could just appear for a few

(01:02:57):
minutes and just domin. But it was like enough too.
I think one of the problems. I know it's often
been said of paul In and other such people that
they could never really carry a series because too much
of them was too much. They were like a spice,

(01:03:20):
a little addition, And that's in this movie. It's just
the right time when you caught with these two rather
unpleasant sisters. Then suddenly it shifts and now you get
this other character, and initially wondering how is he going
to interact, what's his role going to be and when

(01:03:40):
he comes to the house, it adds so much, but
that he disappears for some time. And of course he
was nominated for an Academy Award for us Supporting Actor,
which is pretty amazing for his.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
First role first time out.

Speaker 8 (01:03:55):
Yeah, I'm so surprised that Crawford didn't get nominated for
Best Supporting Actress.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
That. Of course, that's obviously a big part of Feud,
the TV show. I suppose it's again because she deliberately
she chose that part. Apparently she was the one who
told Aldretz that she wanted to play Blanche and suggested
Betty Davis for the role of Jane. And I would

(01:04:23):
presume she thought this is the better role because it's
more sympathetic. But it turned out she didn't do herself
any good in that regard.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Crawford was unwilling to let herself be seen in such
an unflattering light as Davis was, and then, as we
said earlier, Betty just added to the grotesquerie as it were,
and went way over the top and just chewed the scenery.

(01:04:58):
But it obviously worked because Blanche really pales in comparison
when you see the film. She's almost like an afterthought,
but she doesn't pop out of the screen the way
Davis very obviously does and purposely does. Maybe the whole

(01:05:21):
legend of Crawford Now it is true. Apparently it's verifiably
true that she did go around to the other dominees
and say, if you're not going to be there, I'll
be happy to accept the award for you on Oscar
Night if you win. What we don't know for certain

(01:05:43):
is what Davis always maintained, and that was that Crawford
also influenced voters to not vote for Davis, so that
one will never really know the truth, although Betty certainly believed.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Obviously we don't know one way or the other. Does
seem that to be nominated for such a role as
one thing like Anne Bancroft won for the Miracle Worker,
and that seemed more likely to get legitimate votes as
it were, he didn't need a campaign to say don't
vote for Betty Davis. Frankly, it seems to me it

(01:06:22):
was very clever on Joan Crawford's part, because we know
she wasn't happy she didn't get nominated, and so for
her to pick up the award it was a win
win because if Betty Davis had won, she had a
percentage of the profits. It's hard to believe that someone
who supposedly had the business savvy of Crawford would have said,

(01:06:46):
the hell with that. I want her to lose, so
I'm going to lose millions of dollars because of it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Davis says exactly that. She says it was foolish on
Joan's part because had I won, it would have meant
more money for both of us, because the films always
get a bump when someone wins the Academy Award. I
can't remember which interview who she was being interviewed by,

(01:07:13):
but she basically says that it was a miscalculation on
Crawford's part to campaign against me, because had I won,
the film would have done better and we would have
made even more money.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
As you say, we don't know that Crawford actually did
campaign against her. It could be just sour grapes and
Betty Davis's part. There's always endless debates so who should
have won Academy Awards versus who did win them? But
although I love the performance and it's a camp classic,

(01:07:47):
we just seem a little odd if that was the
Best Actress Award as opposed to the others who were
in the running that year.

Speaker 8 (01:07:55):
So speaking of that, let's go ahead and take a
break and we'll be back with an interview with Dominic
who played Victor Borono in the series Feud, and we'll
be back with that right after these brief messages.

Speaker 13 (01:08:06):
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Speaker 8 (01:08:52):
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at participating retailers ringing PG thirteen from Paramount Pictures. Before
we even start to talk about feud, I want to
know a little bit more about your background. Can you
tell me how you got involved in acting.

Speaker 5 (01:09:25):
A long time ago? Now let me get back to
the nineties. I didn't really have any interest in acting
until probably midway through high school. I joined the drama
club at high school just as an extracurricular activity. In
the first year that I did it, we did cabaret

(01:09:48):
and I was just ensemble, but it was a fun time.
It was fun, it was silly. And then the following year,
I think I would have been maybe fourteen fifteen, my
English teacher, Missus Godridge, said that the school play was
going to be Death of a Salesman and I didn't
know the play. I wasn't really up on plays and

(01:10:11):
shows at that point in time, but she said audition,
and I auditioned and I got the role of Biff,
and then that opened my eyes and I fell in
love with acting and everything therein very swiftly. I was
always a fan growing up as a kid. I loved films.

(01:10:33):
I loved TV. I would race home from school to
catch Starter at the Next Generation, and I was a
fan of X Files and Buffy and Twin Peaks and
all these shows, and so I loved film, but I
never really put much stock into oh, that's something that
I could do as a career. That felt like a

(01:10:57):
world away. I think for a while I was hoping
to be a veterinarian, something along those lines. So I
did that school play Death of a Salesman, and that
was it. Then I was in. I got the bug,
and that's then all that I wanted to do. And
from there it was a slippy slope. Instead of going

(01:11:17):
into veterinary sciences, I decided to audition for drama schools
in London just to see what might happen, and then
I got offered a place at a drama school called
the Academy of Live and Recorded Arts. I got offered
a scholarship, a Dance and Drama Award scholarship, and that

(01:11:39):
was it. That was my choice. That was I took
away the choice because that was then like, oh, oh okay,
they believe in me and I could do it, and
they'll pay the tuition and that was it. Then we
were off to the races us.

Speaker 8 (01:11:58):
With dance and drama. Did you have to do much dancing?

Speaker 5 (01:12:01):
Oh, they didn't try too hard. I went to a
place called the Academy of Live and Recorded Arts, and
one of the reasons that I chose that drama school.
It closed unfortunately during COVID, so it doesn't exist anymore.
But at the time it was one of the only
drama schools that really had a focus on classical training
and training for television and film and radio and voiceover.

(01:12:26):
In my heart at that time, I really knew that
television and film was the direction that I wanted to
focus in. Dance wise, there was a little bit of
tap involved, and we did have denise for jazz and
movement and aerobics, and Hannela Aufmann was a movement teacher,

(01:12:47):
so there was some dancing components, and then as you
went further down the school, you could sort of diversify
into areas that you wanted to go in. So if
you were particularly good at stage fright, then you could
go down the BADC route and learn extra weapons I
guess other than foil and dagger, and then people would

(01:13:09):
be fighting with long swords and staffs, and then people
could go into extra dance lessons and then there was
a singing group, so you could diversify within that. But
dance as a six five, three hundred pound men was
not for me.

Speaker 8 (01:13:25):
Why, I suppose movement is very important, especially you've done
a lot of roles where you're behind a lot of makeup,
so you have to really work on that body as
your instrument.

Speaker 5 (01:13:35):
Yes, movement, absolutely, so a lot of that was a law.
Aufman did a lot of movement, and our improv teacher,
John Mowatt also did a lot of physicality. Improvit at
my drama school stemmed from something called Comedia delat, which
is a lot of mask work from Italy, and so

(01:13:57):
through that we did a whole lot of movement. But Mike,
what's funny is I don't know if it's funny, but
I'll tell you the story anyway, at drama school and
plays that I did in high school, because I'm a
big guy. I'm six four six' five and three hundred,
pounds and SO i would find myself being cast in

(01:14:21):
whatever place that we were. Doing each, TERM i would
be your doctorship again and three sisters AND i would
find myself being the grandfather or the, father or playing
someone so much older than my, age or playing someone
that had a distinctive voice or distinctive. Mannerisms and throughout

(01:14:43):
my whole time at drama school in three, YEARS i
THINK i only ever played my own age. Once and
so going through that and doing, THAT i did do
a lot of vocal and physical. Training and whenever we
did the public, PRODUCTIONS i would go to the movement
teacher AND i would go To John mowett and the voice,

(01:15:05):
Teacher John, wilde And i'd, SAY i got to play
a seventy five year. Old let's talk about, Physicality let's
talk about. This and then WHEN i left drama, school
it was a real deconstruction on auditioning BECAUSE i didn't
know how to play my own age WHEN i left drama,

(01:15:26):
school And i'd be going to these auditions and when
you auditioned for television and, films just be, Yourself just be,
yourself it's, You AND i didn't know how to do.
That i'd be going to auditions being like and as
a twenty one year old, walk how does he move?
From Like i'm twenty. One so it was a real deconstruction,
then AND i still think in some ways it really

(01:15:50):
helps me out having that, training because, then like you,
say working on something Like The magicians Or Star trek
Or Star, wars anything that's in, Prosthetics Big car To Victor,
bono it really helps you out to embody. That BUT
i still sometimes struggle just playing a regular everyday person

(01:16:10):
Because i've always my natural instinct is to, say, oh
how does this person? Talk where are his intonations and his?
Speech does his voice come from his, chest from his,
belly from his, neck from his, Head and SO i
think SOMETIMES i might overcomplicate things instead of just being, like,
Well i'm just going to talk like a human.

Speaker 8 (01:16:30):
Being DID i read write that you got your first
role like the day you graduated from?

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
COLLEGE i.

Speaker 5 (01:16:36):
DID i auditioned For Batman. BEGINS i think it Was
Lucinda sison's office AND i went in WITH i Think
Elaine granger was the casting. Associate and that was the
day THAT i graduated from The academy Of live And Recorded.
ART i raced into Central london that morning and auditioned for,
that AND i auditioned for the role of An Arkham Asylum.

(01:16:58):
Escape the audition was intimidating a kid in the narrows
with a. KNIFE i didn't take an act to the.
Audition i'm very. Professional AND i got that role AND
i was, like oh my, god this is. Wow and
THEN i In. ENGLAND i guess it's still the dune.

(01:17:18):
Thing they pick you up from your residents and then
they drove us forty five minutes and they were filming
in these two huge airport hangars that used to have.
Blimps AND i got, there went through hair and, makeup
went through, wardrobe and then the hair and makeup and
wardrobe team bless, them were, like, well, wait you're too

(01:17:42):
clean cut and nice looking to be An arkham asylum.
Guy let's figure something. Out and THEN i got turned
into a narrows cop AND i lost off my line
and they were still one what a wonderful. Environment and
THEN i was cut from the final, film but my
name still survives the, credit SO i do get my

(01:18:04):
sixty pounds a year in my. Residuals so thank you
very much About. Mumborghinn's but it was a wonderful experience
to be on set on a major motion. Picture that's
my first, experience and then my next job Was Doctor,
who which was another you, KNOW i was raised As

(01:18:24):
sylvester McCoy and an eighth as my doctor and, Companion
so that was also very exciting to be involved in
that and land into that genre world right away out
of the, gate which is WHAT i. Loved and, yeah
two wonderful jobs right out of the, gate.

Speaker 8 (01:18:43):
Rushing home and Watching Star trek Next. Generation how was
it to work On Star trek?

Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
Itself, Honestly, mike that is still one of my career.
Highlights as soon as they announced That Patrick stewart was
coming back and hard was a go. OH i picked
up my phone to my reps right. AWAY i called my,
Manager Camella, pines was, like they're Bringing Patrick, Stewart dakarta

(01:19:11):
is coming. Back we've got to do what we. Can
and the casting director on that show Was Liz, dean
AND i had been into that. Office she worked at
an office at the time called U, dk who were
actually casting directors On, feud so they were aware of my,
work BUT i STILL i wrote a little handwritten note

(01:19:32):
at The Liz deine AND i went down there AND
i said to, You, LIZ i used to race home
from school every night to Watch Star Trek Next generation
and bless she brought me. In she let me come
in and read for Mister. Vupp and the night BEFORE

(01:19:55):
i went, IN i was having a bit of an
existential crisis because it was so top. Secret everything was
so clandestine and shut, down and there were no full
scripts and ALL i was told THAT i was an,
alien AND i was pacing the living room because my

(01:20:17):
fiance is not A Star trek, guy and SO i
was reading lines with him AND i was, saying it's very.
Different it's going to be very. Different If i'm A,
klingon then If i'm A, cardassian then If i'm A,
ferangi then If i'm as a bunch of different, species
BECAUSE i didn't know WHAT i was supposed to be
WHEN i got in the. Room and THEN i went

(01:20:38):
for the. AUDITION i went in the room And liz
was just, like you're like a big. Lizard you can smell,
lies and you're just like an immovable. Object you're like a.
Rock and we did, it AND i had a lot
of stuff that wasn't in the final. Script it was
a lot of technobabble that was in the audition, material

(01:20:59):
and oh, BOY i kept tripping over all those lines
and it was way more than was ever in the final,
script and Bless. Liz we did it maybe three or four,
times AND i kept. Stumbling at the same. Point she was, like,
hey do you want to take five? Minutes AND i was, like, NO.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
I, Promise i'm.

Speaker 5 (01:21:18):
Prepared i've worked on this so much as All i've ever.
Wanted and then she wrote the line that was my stumbling,
block and she wrote it on a piece of card
and she held it above the camera so THAT i
could get that line. Out AND i left that audition
AND i called my manager AND i, said oh, NO
i was one of the worst Auditions i've ever done

(01:21:39):
in my. LIFE i kept stumbling over this line And
liz had to write the line down on this piece
of card and she's never going to call us in ever.
Again and then we got. It and that's the way it.
Goes sometimes we shit the bed and THEN i guess
what we feel isn't necessarily what comes across on, camera
AND i just. HAD i had the most divine experience on.

(01:22:04):
There everyone was so. Wonderful Jonathan frakes was the director
who was so warm and so. Friendly he ran such
a great. Set Patrick stewart was incredible in between. Setups
sometimes you work on shows and in between setups the
series regulars or the other actors will disperse and go

(01:22:24):
to their trailers and they don't want to. Talk and
here everyone just sat down and was talking And patrick,
wouldson where are you? From and they're, like, oh From Stow.
Contrent they'd be, like, AH i worked at The Stoke
Contrent Repertory theater back in nineteen seventy. EIGHT i was
just a, magical wonderful and for everything THAT i would
hope That Star trek would, Be Star trek. Was it

(01:22:47):
was a. Dream how was it being under all that?

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
Makeup you know?

Speaker 5 (01:22:51):
WHAT i quite like. It it's liberating in a. Way
what was really nice about The Star trek makeup is
it was so. Fast the makeup people there were From
Vincent Van Dyke. Effect so basically it was a foam.
Cow so it was just one piece that would go
over your head and shoulders and then just one piece

(01:23:12):
OF i can't remember if the face piece Was latex or,
phone but just one piece that would go on the
face and then it was just a full. Suit the
hands were, gloves so they just went straight on that
wasn't a lot of work that needed to go on,
there so, comparatively that was an hour and a half
in that makeup. Chair by, comparison The magicians makeup took

(01:23:35):
about five, hours and The Rebel moon and The Star
wars makeup they both took five six. Hours that was
a long all time in the makeup chair for Those
but what was really nice is it was so easy
and it was low, maintenance so in between setups you

(01:23:55):
were able to just talk and chat with the other
actors on those other. Shows On, MAGICIANS i had the
most wonderful, time but Because i'm in the who sort
of stilettos that are cut out to match the sort
of shape of a goat leg and the legs are,
furry and you glued in and then the, horns and

(01:24:17):
the makeup was, latex and so the sweat gathers underneath that,
material whereas with foam it absorbs, it but the latex
sort of gathers and they would have to put you
into cooling. Tents and SO i found that the downside
with working with latex prosthetics is it needs a little
MORE tlc and then you don't get to talk to

(01:24:42):
the other cast members as much as you would like
to in between setups and be, like, oh go on,
today but still wonderful. EXPERIENCES i quite enjoy. It LIKE i,
said inhabiting something physically and vocally is exciting for. Me
that's my sort of natural rhythm of getting into a.

(01:25:02):
Character SO i think it also gets you out of
your head a little bit more because there's like mass,
work and so you just play and explore through physical
means as well as vocal.

Speaker 8 (01:25:14):
Means before you Played Victor, borno had you played another
real person BEFORE i.

Speaker 5 (01:25:20):
Did a show Called. Roots they Redid. ROOTS i think
back in two thousand and thirteen twenty, fourteen AND i
played people on. STAGE i THINK i played So grobo
in a production In, england and THEN i played someone
In roots that was a real. Person but historically the

(01:25:42):
only frame of reference you have is a painting and handwritten,
documents and so there's no vocal. Information no one could
watch that and be, like hold on a, minute that
wasn't what that person was really. Like when it came To,
VICTOR i think this was the first time THAT i
played someone real where there was a plethora of documentation

(01:26:08):
about what he looked like and what he sounded, like
and first hand accounts of what he was like as
a human, being and he had poetry albums and so
there was a lot of reference points for. Him and
WHEN i went into audition for that same office that
did star trek Ud, ka they DIDN'T i knew THAT

(01:26:31):
i was auditioning For, victor but because the scripts had
not been written to that, point the material THAT i
was given were scenes From Whatever happened To Baby. Jane
but they wanted me to be Playing victor buonow but
Still Edwin, Flagg and so it was this weird place

(01:26:52):
of AM i Playing Victor buono or AM i playing
the guy that he played In Whatever happened With Baby?
Jane and casting was, like we don't know why not,
both but again a wonderful experience audition. Wise the associate
at that, Time Jenny, treadwell had cast me on a
show Called Ant farm a few years, before and she

(01:27:12):
knew that they were Casting feud and she had built
a vision board with pictures of me From Ant farm
and pictures Of Victor buono side by side in the
same kind of, poses and she was, like you got
to bring in Down. Burgess he's going to be perfect for,
this and they gave me the note beforehand come dressed
in the style indictive of, that SO i had to

(01:27:34):
match what victim whatever happened To Baby? Jane AND i
did my hair AND i jelled it to one, side and,
yeah we had fun with the. Audition we played it
As Victor buono and we played it as he did
In Whatever happened To Baby. JANE i think this was In,
february AND i don't THINK i heard Until april THAT

(01:27:56):
i had been. Cast then we didn't start filming until
till Late September, october so it was a sort of
a long stretch of time in between auditioning and working.
Then but, yeah then fun to go down those avenues
where he moved and vocally where he, lived and, yeah
or another, wonderful incredible. Experience were you familiar with him

(01:28:22):
before you get the call to do the? AUDITION i
if you'd have told, me, hey do you Know Victor?
BUONO i would have been, like, NO i don't THINK i.
Do but then going down the rabbit hole of uh,
oh he Was king tut In. BATMAN i know him From.
Batman and then Whatever happened To Baby jane and be, like, oh,
YEAH i remember watching that. FILM i know who he.

(01:28:43):
Is he's In planet of The. APES i know who
he is In planet of The, oh he's in my
favorite animated film from WHEN i was a, Kid flight Of.
DRAGONS i, know, Okay and actually funny speaking about Ant,
farm there was a producer and writer on And, Farm
Mark Jordan. Lencoln and WHEN i got cast on that
show it was A disney. Show one of the very

(01:29:06):
first things that he said to me was, like you
know WHY i loved your audition because it reminded me
Of Victor. Buono and he kept, saying you should look
At Victor, bruno you should look At Victor. Buno AND
i remember looking it up at the, time, like, OH
i see the. Resemblance but it wasn't UNTIL i got
the audition For feud THAT i really went down the
rabbit hole of investigating his body of.

Speaker 8 (01:29:28):
Work as we've been, talking you dip in and out
of Like american accents and. Stuff how was it finding
the voice Of Victor? Borono was there a particular phrase
or something that really got you into?

Speaker 5 (01:29:40):
That, NO i don't think. SO i listened to his poetry,
ALBUMS i listened to how he talked on some talk
show appearances that he talked, upon AND i wanted to
make sure THAT i was honoring it without becoming slavish
to an, impersonation so that then on, set if anything

(01:30:05):
different is thrown at, you or you're sitting in the
hair and makeup trailer and someone comes along and it's, like,
hey we got a new pages for the, day that
THEN i wasn't frazzled and, like, oh, OH i haven't
studied this for six, hours and SO i don't know
what to, do and so you find your own. RHYTHM
i find that If i'm playing someone, Real i'll examine

(01:30:29):
their voice and the mannerisms to a, degree but there's
still got to be room in there for me to
be able to, improvise to be able to, play to
be able to inhabit them on the. Fly and SO
i guess it becomes a case of what do you
lose and what do you gain me by sort of

(01:30:52):
being so slavish to who they. Are but, YES i
try and figure out where he moved, from where he's vocally,
resonated and took it from. There some of my.

Speaker 8 (01:31:03):
Favorite scenes in the whole mini series were or. SERIES
i suppose it is were you And Susan sarandon in your,
interactions whether it was her bailing you out of jail
or that beautiful conversation that you have where you're getting
to know each. Other what was that like to work
with her or?

Speaker 5 (01:31:20):
He it's such a wonderful environment in terms of sorry
to keep hopping. On i'd worked On farm back in twenty,
twelve WHICH i think was for run of fifteen sixteen,
episodes but each episode is stand. Alone there's no sort
of you don't want to, say there's no character. Development
it's A disney. Show it's, light it's. Fluffy and Then

(01:31:43):
FEUD i think was the first time in a long
time THAT i had a job and it was, like,
hey this is going to be five six. Months you're
going to be inhabiting this. Character so it was nice
to go on that entire journey and to Which Susan
sarandon work whose WORK i was familiar with And i'm

(01:32:06):
a big. FAN i think it was a deep cup for.
HER i Love Cloud. ATLETS i know it's not for,
everyone but she plays like six different characters in that,
film and SO i think the first TIME i MET
i was, like you told me everything about cloud at
let's right, now and just everyone on that. Set jessica was.
Lovely it was the first time Meeting Ryan murphy and
he was. Great but the Directors Grenneth thorne Of, Peyton

(01:32:29):
she was the one that directed that scene Where susan
AND i are on the, couch and she was very
clear about what she wanted and she come in and she, Say,
okay so we're going to do an establishing shot that
ring And ruther camera. Here it's going to be. INTIMATE
i Think ryan had such a clear vision for what
he wanted with. THAT i Think ryan in general has
a very clear vision for what he wants and that

(01:32:52):
whole creative. TEAM i became friends With Alfred, molina who
is simply the most divine human. Being Allison wright To Nase,
popa who's one of the producers working On, feud led
to so many other wonderful. Things going back to the
genesis Of WHEN i arrived In Los, angeles there was

(01:33:17):
a kid sitcom CALLED I carli AND i must have
auditioned for that. Show just one, line, two line, three
line over and over. Again must have been, thirteen fourteen
times And Jenny treadwell was the casting assistant or associate
in that, office AND i never, booked and then she
kept me in mind when they were looking for this

(01:33:38):
person on Ant farm and bought me and it was,
like you should meet Dominic. Burgess and THEN i worked
on Ant farm and then she moved off as again
TO UdK where they were Doing. Conuge she was, like
you should Meet Dominic burgess and then you work on.
Feud and from working on, feud that's HOW i Met,
taylor who DID ma And Breaking news In Uba county
And palmrial That i'm working on now here we are

(01:34:01):
in the year of Our low twenty twenty. FIVE i
can trace everything That i'm working on now all the
way back to WHEN i first got TO la in
two thousand and, seven through auditions that you didn't get
at the. Time but it's so interesting and feud has
led to so many wonderful.

Speaker 8 (01:34:18):
Things you talked about that challenge of being six foot,
five three hundred. POUNDS i imagine that was a huge
challenge For Victor borono as well and not being able
to take that many. RULES i love that you're able
to just move through these different. Rules for, me it
seems so easily because every time you are on, screen

(01:34:39):
you just embody a completely different. Character there's no oh,
yeah there's. Dominic sometimes you're, unrecognized, well not just with the,
makeup but just with the.

Speaker 5 (01:34:47):
Performance SOMETIMES i feel LIKE i get in my head
a little bit on that IF i get an audition
in for. Something SOMETIMES i do worry THAT i stand
in my own way Because i'll do an audition and they're, Like,
nope that's the voice THAT i used in it's always
sunny In. PHILADELPHIA i got to find something. Different and
Then i'll be, like oh, no that's Mid, Atlantic transatlantic

(01:35:11):
kind Of victor. BOLONOISH i want to move away from
that Because i've done that and people will be, like,
ah it's just doing the same thing. Again so SOMETIMES
i get in my head. AGAIN i think it goes
back to that training thing THAT i can do An american,
accent and SOMETIMES i should just be able to do
that and talk and do the, audition AND i. DON'T
i get in my head a little bit About i've

(01:35:34):
got something different or something physically different or vocally, different
and SOMETIMES i don't THINK i, do BUT i appreciate.
That i'll take that compliment BECAUSE i do love playing and.
EXPLORING i love watching actors who disappear into. ROLES i
love watching actors who change physically and vocally and surprise.

(01:35:59):
Me AND i enjoyed the character. WORK i really enjoyed
the character. Work AND i think that when you get
a script for, something it's one of the first THINGS
i do is where these characters live in their? Body
how do they, sit how do they, move how do
they open a, door what do they do in the living,
room how do they? Relax that's a fun part of

(01:36:19):
the process for. Me BUT i am away in the
back of my, head, like but you've done this. BEFORE
i do something different and MAYBE i book more roles
IF i just let it go like that worked for
me on the last. Job i'm just going to do
the same thing all over. Again think it could be.

Speaker 8 (01:36:33):
The matter day Al. Pacino it just does the same
thing over and over.

Speaker 5 (01:36:36):
Again, now, yeah, hey look it works for some. Actors,
YEAH i don't. KNOW i don't have the answer to.
THAT i JUST i get the audition material in AND
i just go with what my gut tells. ME i
used to WHEN i was a younger, actor WHEN i
was first starting. OUT i would get audition material AND i.

(01:36:57):
Strangle WHEN i was In, ENGLAND i worked On batman
AND i worked On, dogtafho and THEN i was very
lucky IF i was getting an audition every three or
four months or, so and so when an audition did come,
in you'd strangle at material because you'd want it so
much that it'd be, like oh, GOSH i got to
go at this job up to a casting, director And

(01:37:18):
i've got to please the casting. Director and it just
became about pleasing other people instead of getting the material and, Saying, okay,
great this is a, material this is my interpretation of the.
Role hey do you want some? Apples Because i'm bringing
apples to this. Production and if production's, yeah we want,
Oranges i'd be, like, okay, great thank you so. Much

(01:37:41):
when you want, apples come get me BECAUSE i got.
Apples that's a terrible. Analogy but THEN i can put
my head on my pillow at night and get an,
audition do WHAT i want to do with. It finish the,
audition rip up the, material put it in the, trash
and then Say i'm letting it. GO i release it
into the. Universe sometimes auditions come along that take hold

(01:38:04):
and you really want them for one reason or, another
whether it's the role and it's oh my, GOSH i
love this material so, much or it's a location where
it's going to be. Filming What i'll go To tahiti
for three? Months are you kidding? Me as?

Speaker 2 (01:38:21):
Please whatever it, is there's.

Speaker 5 (01:38:23):
Different reasons behind why you would want to do, something
and they're all. Valid but Now i'm much better about
letting things.

Speaker 8 (01:38:31):
Go with you being married to another, actor do you
guys workshop stuff? Together because he does a lot of stunts,
Too does it teach you how to take a bunch?

Speaker 5 (01:38:40):
Matter Matthew yennicky his background is in, stunts and oh,
GOSH i don't want this to be a leading cause
of out. Divarsh i'm. Joking we approach auditioning very. DIFFERENTLY
i will get material and Then i'll go and work
on it in my own space and find physically and

(01:39:00):
vocally where it, lives And i'll prepare it and then
WHEN i go To matt And, fay, Okay i'm ready to.
Tape it's been a loose place And i'm not so
slavish on being word. Perfect i'd rather get the intention
of the character and the feeling and the emotion of the,
scene and that doesn't always. Work if you're auditioning for a,

(01:39:23):
sitcom they tend to be more word perfect and. Specific
if you're auditioning for a crime procedural that's ON, cbs
they tend to be more word perfect and. Specific if
it's for a feature, film it tends to be a little.
Looser if it's for a pilot where you're going to
be playing that character for, yours THEN i tend to
be a little looser and inhabit in a different. WAY

(01:39:43):
i think Because matt's background is in, stunts he approaches
it from the opposite, direction where things have to be
perfect and timed because that's what some people. Do things
have to be precise and timed and come at the right,
moment because if they don't come at the right, moment

(01:40:04):
people will take a punch to the, face and that's
the shot roun. Off so it is interesting that we
come at things from a different. Way BUT i learned
things from. HIM i think he learned things from. Me
he took classes AT ucb And groundlings and did a
lot of improv and got out of that sort of
not a rigid, headspace but that sort of precise. Headspace

(01:40:27):
AND i love being in. Class i'm in class all the.
Time and so IF i feel like my skill set
is getting a little, balanced Then i'm, like, OH i
feel a little. Rigid i'm going to jump into a
class AT ucg for a. While, OOH i feel Like
i've gone a little too. Loose i'm going to jump
into a scene steady, class And i'm going to course.

(01:40:48):
CORRECT i went way off topic there. Again but, yes
we sell. Together and it's handy now in the world
of self, tapes where we're auditioning in our own living,
rooms to have each other on, hand to be, like,
WHAT i got this, audition it's due in twenty four,
Hours i'm gonna learn. It then let's do. It and

(01:41:08):
If matt is out of, town he's In vancouver right,
now and then he's got a stunt job In, toronto
and so while he's out of, town then they have
another sort of two or three people THAT i can
pick up the phone and be, like, Well i've got an.
Audition let. Go in my sort of social circle and
work circles have got three or four people they call
for self tapes to be like it's let's come and

(01:41:31):
then there are self taping. Facilities if everything falls apart
and we're, like, oh, okay it's time to go TO Ace,
tapes down to go To Lucky Rabbit.

Speaker 8 (01:41:38):
Studios, yeah that's got to be such a different. World
do was that all just because of the pandemic or
were they doing that? Beforehand there were.

Speaker 5 (01:41:47):
MOMENTS i think the only times THAT i did self
tapes before the pandemic were IF i was out of.
TOWN i THINK i was In New orleans WHEN i
got the audition for The, magicians and so that was
a self. Tape that's the only one THAT i can
remember off the top of my head before the. Pandemic

(01:42:10):
and then we went into pandemic times and then everything
shifted very quickly to self. Tapes Doctor death was a self.
TAPE i think Pal mariel was a self. Tape ma
was a self tape that became the norm very. Quickly
and there are pros and cons to each. THING i

(01:42:34):
love going into the room and meeting a casting director
or seeing a casting director that you know that you
love going into YOU i used to love going Into
wendy O'Brien's. Office wehndy O'Brien. Does it's always. Sung In.
Philadelphia she Did legit and she was in an office
at twenty two thirty Three Barry, avenue and you would

(01:42:56):
go into that office and she was so, warm and
she'd give you a and you would do the scene
a couple of times and she would play and it
was loose and you'd improv and you'd come out of
that office feeling so good about yourself that you worked
or that you, played that you explored with the. Scene
and now with self, tapes you don't get that. Interaction

(01:43:20):
you put yourself on tape and it's been a, vacuum
and you send it, off and in some ways it's
good because you're, Like, okay this is WHAT i want
to do with the. Character i'm putting it on tape
And i'm sending it out and that's what it. IS
i like self. TAPES i love being in the. Room
i'm not a fan of zoom. Auditions the live zoom

(01:43:43):
auditions is where it loses it for, me because with
a self, tape you're in, control you have your, reader
and you can do it on your own. Schedule you
can do the audition in the, morning, afternoon, night whenever
you want to do it whenever works for, you which
is great when it's a zoom, audition you're still in your.

(01:44:08):
Home BUT i don't know if trash collection is going to.
COME i know it's going to come On tuesdays And,
fridays and oh, boy they're, loud and they can come
anytime between seven am and twelve in the. AFTERNOON i
don't know if my neighbors are going to be. Home
the upstairs neighbors sound like they opened a bowling. ALLEY

(01:44:28):
i have five, cats or their colors jingle if they
want to be, fed they'll let me know they want
to be. Fed so the zoom auditions bring in a
factor of unpredictability for. Me and then there's a technical
aspect because if you're zooming with someone and the production
company is In, Alberta, canada they might not have the

(01:44:49):
best internet connection and you're reading with someone and there's
a delay and it's a two second delay and you're not,
sure and my webcam doesn't look as good as the
camera THAT i use to help tape on and zoom
auditions is where it loses it for. Me but in
the room and self, TAPES i.

Speaker 8 (01:45:07):
Love you Mentioned Palm morell what else are you working
on these?

Speaker 5 (01:45:10):
Days we just finished season two Of palmriel and again
love all those. People Christin wigger is a, Delight Alison
journey is a. Delight Carol burnett is a. Delight that's A.

Speaker 8 (01:45:22):
Tv royalty right.

Speaker 5 (01:45:24):
There just what a treat to be in that. ENVIRONMENT
i just finished a show On amazon Called criminal THAT
i think will be out in early twenty twenty six
that's based off a series of graphic. Novels and THEN
i have been doing some voice over work for a
new animated, series BUT i don't Think i'm allowed to

(01:45:47):
talk about that. Yet that's nbad and they haven't done
a lot of. Announcement so, yeah that's been been keeping
me busy this. Month i'm working on some theater with
a company Called The Blank. Theater they have something called
The Young Playwrights, festivals which is where new playwrights between
the age of eight and eighteen plays and then they

(01:46:10):
put them on with professional actors here In Los. Angeles
and it's always wonderful to do fresh new work and,
see the writers of today are going to be the
writers of. Tomorrow and that's a little musical that we're.
Doing so we start rehearsals for that next, week Which
i'm excited. About, yeah so there's. Stuff it's slow right,

(01:46:32):
now but there's stuff going. ON i try and keep.
BUSY i write as, well which keeps me. Busy this
week For Amazon, PRIME i bought myself a, piano So
i'm gonna learn some. Piano like we'll see how that. Goes, Wow,
okay who? KNOWS i like keeping myself. Busy somebody there

(01:46:53):
is a. Musician is that you or your?

Speaker 2 (01:46:55):
Husband?

Speaker 5 (01:46:55):
Oh, NO i don't know anything about. Guitars one of them's,
acoustic one of them's. Electric that's ALL i. Know but
PIANOS i can get into.

Speaker 8 (01:47:04):
Dominic thank you so much for your. Time this is
so great talking with.

Speaker 5 (01:47:07):
You, likewise thank you so, Much. Mike this was a.
Treat ANYTIME i get to talk, shop it's always very.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
Exciting I've, RICKY i left To daddy.

Speaker 14 (01:47:20):
His addresses heaven. Above I've, ricken Did?

Speaker 2 (01:47:28):
Daddy we miss you.

Speaker 14 (01:47:32):
And wish you with us, Too, love.

Speaker 1 (01:47:38):
And DO i get to play a real Hards did
you just be your stands ready WHEN i think you're?

Speaker 2 (01:47:42):
Ready you joined your sister's.

Speaker 9 (01:47:45):
Marks thank.

Speaker 4 (01:47:46):
You you seem to FORGET i was A star when
your billing was still find your child killed by.

Speaker 1 (01:47:55):
STAMPING i think she's, crazy lay she chose everybody even why.

Speaker 8 (01:48:26):
All, right we are back and we were talking about
whatever happened To Baby, jane and, yeah let's talk a
little bit more About. FEUD i never watched that show.
BEFORE i don't know. WHY i just didn't have any
interest in checking it, out BUT i had to for this,
episode AND i had a great time with. IT i
was really impressed with that. Show AND i was really

(01:48:47):
impressed With Jessica. Lang holy, shit the performance that she
gives As Joan, CRAWFORD i thought was one for the.
Ages she really captured her so.

Speaker 3 (01:48:56):
Well Susan saranda AND i take also does a tremendous
job As Betty. Davis there's even a slight Resemblance san
sand in eyes as, Right.

Speaker 8 (01:49:10):
Definitely the resemblance is. THERE i just felt like she was,
good BUT i didn't feel she was. Great AND i
feel like her Whole betty davisness turned on and off
depending what the scene, was and towards the, end like
episodes SIX ofn, EIGHT i started to hear how she
said dead, dy like that type of pronunciation That Betty

(01:49:32):
davis HAD i would hear that in those later, episodes
BUT i really wasn't hearing it in the earlier. EPISODES
i felt like she's just Being Susan sarandon through, this
Whereas Jessica, LANG i felt that she was completely in
the part that there. Was if there Was Jessica lang
inside of, THERE i wasn't seeing. IT i was just
Seeing Joan. Crawford and that wasn't just from the. MAKEUP

(01:49:53):
i was hearing it in the. VOICE i was seeing
it in the. Mannerisms it just felt Very. Joan whereas
like towards the, end AND i don't doesn't make sense
BECAUSE i don't think that they filmed this. Chronologically but
towards the, END i felt, Like, oh Now Susan sarandon's
really putting it. On she's putting on The betty davisness of.

Speaker 3 (01:50:12):
This maybe it's a persona that takes. Over he had
to be.

Speaker 8 (01:50:16):
Careful next, thing she's criticizing her child's.

Speaker 2 (01:50:20):
Acting remember, too That Jessica lang Had Faye dunaway's performance
to look, at and of Course sarandon. Had there's never
been a major filmed With Betty davis as a character
like the Actress Betty davis as a character as far

(01:50:41):
AS i, know so that was the, first so, maybe
BUT i thought they were both very good in. It quite,
HONESTLY i.

Speaker 8 (01:50:49):
Thought the whole thing was, great AND i was so
happy to See Alfred molina. In here Is Robert. ALDRICH
i really Loved molina and him going Against Stanley. TUCCI
i thought it was, wonderful especially when he Fucks Jack
warner over towards the end of the series and you
hear him clanging talking about his big brass, balls And i'm, like,

(01:51:09):
fuck that's so.

Speaker 2 (01:51:11):
Good knocking around a.

Speaker 3 (01:51:13):
Little maybe that scene is, great especially since we know
the movies At aldrich's end going to Make The Dirty
dozen and all his other, yards, yeah The Longest. Yard oh.

Speaker 8 (01:51:27):
Yeah his filmography is, amazing and, yeah he really hits
a stride towards the end of his. Career it's like
he made some great films afore. It but, yeah towards
the end he was just knocking him out of the.

Speaker 3 (01:51:38):
PARK i even Liked all The. Marbles it's not one
of his, greatest but you know the Interesting Peter falk,
Film is it to.

Speaker 2 (01:51:47):
One with The Lady?

Speaker 8 (01:51:48):
Rustling, yes, Yes i'll be watching that soon For The
Shabby detective once we get up to eight later seven.

Speaker 2 (01:51:56):
Not to go away from, feud BUT i don't want
to finish without going back to something you said at
the very, beginning and that was the cinematography and how
this film was. Shot one of the THINGS i was
thinking about WAS i just showed to one of the
classes THAT i was teaching On jack Lemon we just

(01:52:18):
Saw Some Like It, hot and of course In Some
Like It. Hot it was interesting Because Marilyn monroe was
In Some Like It. Hot but at the, Time monroe
always had a writer on her contract that said the
film had to be made in, color And wilder, said,

(01:52:39):
no we can't make this in color because the boys
would look too grotesque and they would never be able
to pull it. Off and so they had to Get
Arthur miller to help Convince marylyn to do it in
black and. White you gotta believe that added to it
and this, movie BECAUSE i think it would have been

(01:53:01):
too much if this movie were in. Color but it
made me think of that BECAUSE i had just shown
that film like the week Before tim AND i watched this,
again and when you See Betty, davis it comes across
as grotesque in black and. WHITE i think if you
had done it in, color it would have been too.

(01:53:22):
Much and then, really again it goes back to would
people have even taken it seriously because she really would
have looked like a clown or although maybe they wouldn't
have even bothered with that kind of makeup if they
had done it in.

Speaker 3 (01:53:36):
Color send us a link to the remake that was
done With lynn And Vanessa, redgrave which was in, color
and for the reason, They gatto points, OUT i don't
think even though they are both great, actresses it looks
dated and, garish but not in the garage way it
should as a horror. Movie it just looks.

Speaker 8 (01:53:59):
Bad, yeah much more traditional clown makeup for that, one
BECAUSE i think she's even got like the smears of
red on her cheeks and.

Speaker 9 (01:54:07):
Stuff.

Speaker 8 (01:54:08):
YEAH i couldn't really make my way through. That the
one THAT i could make my way through there was
only half an hour, long and that was THE i
couldn't believe. This so we've been talking about camp and
just dancing around this a little, bit talking about like
how the influence on pulp, culture the influence on gay culture.

Speaker 2 (01:54:25):
Of this movie is.

Speaker 8 (01:54:27):
Wild it. Is it was embraced the what was it
called the THE ggrc And i'm trying to remember WHAT ggrc, Is, oh,
yes The Good Girls Riding. Club they a group of
drag performers basically did a half an hour version Of
What happened To Baby jane Called What Really happened To

(01:54:48):
Baby jane months after the movie came. Out it was
embraced that quickly by gay. Culture and it's all done all.
Drag it's really who had very well done some of
the special effects that they do with like the animations
of the marquis or like the tiny Little jeane singing

(01:55:09):
letter To daddy and. Stuff it's just it's. Remarkable they
did a great job and just embracing that grotesquery and you.
Can't it's. Funny i'm watching this And i'm saying to my,
wife here we are in nineteen sixty three watching all
these drag performers Redoing Baby. Jane and you could go

(01:55:29):
through like all of the however many seasons Of RuPaul's Drag,
race and they've probably done at least two or three
parodies Of Whatever happened To Baby jane or references to.
It AND i remember lines from whatever happened To Baby
jane through the lens of the parodies more THAN i
actually remember the movie, Sometimes so like when she says the, line.

Speaker 14 (01:55:53):
You wouldn't be able to do these awful things to
me IF i weren't still.

Speaker 12 (01:55:56):
In this, chair.

Speaker 1 (01:56:03):
But your heart land you are in that.

Speaker 8 (01:56:06):
CHANT i picture, it R i hear it in my
head as but, yeah bland yah, ah like really overdoing
it like a drag performance would do you, KNOW i.

Speaker 14 (01:56:17):
Haven't been able to use my legs since the.

Speaker 15 (01:56:19):
Accident i'd escape from you IF i was one hundred
and nine years.

Speaker 3 (01:56:24):
Old but job.

Speaker 2 (01:56:27):
Blast, yeah, LOCALLY i thought that was pretty much How
betty did.

Speaker 8 (01:56:33):
It she doesn't do it nearly as broad AS i
thought she.

Speaker 2 (01:56:37):
Did that's her fashion years steep out line For Baby.
Jane but ye ah and the chat Blant, yeah interestingly,
enough it's funny that you say that. NOW i was
thinking of it then and THEN i forgot to say
anything To tim about. It but it's one of the
rare times where in that, film at least where you

(01:56:58):
really hear Her New england come, out because she was
In New, englander, Right why is she from Around boston? Somewhere?

Speaker 8 (01:57:07):
Yeah you definitely hear, That like WHEN i said How
Susan sarandon embraces The Betty davis. Ness eventually in that,
PERFORMANCE i really start to hear that and the whole
thing with her, daughter and when she talks with her
daughter on the, PHONE i really hear The new englandness of.

Speaker 2 (01:57:22):
It and we didn't mention that was her daughter B
d in the. Film, SORRY i.

Speaker 8 (01:57:29):
Was talking about the disabled daughter that she had put.
Awake but, yeah B, d, man oh, man they are
merciless to B. D oh my, gosh it's just a.
Mother how don't, Worry you'll be, fine and just the
horrible line. Deliveries that actress is. GREAT i loved her
In sabrina The Teenage.

Speaker 9 (01:57:48):
Witch ye really?

Speaker 8 (01:57:49):
Mad, yes, YEAH i love, her and she did a
great job of being a bad.

Speaker 3 (01:57:54):
ACTRESS i, Do AND i had to agree that B
d the actress is pretty bad in the few lines she.
Has but of course that's interesting and feud because we all,
know of course About Christina crawford And Mommy, DearS and
she is referred, to but it never appears in the.

(01:58:17):
Series and then you see the twins who see much
closer to their, mother and yet you then See Betty
davis and her tortured relationship WITH. Bd and we know
that B d wrote a similar scorching, book but in her,

(01:58:37):
case she published it while their mother was.

Speaker 2 (01:58:39):
Alive AND i watched an interview WITH bd after that
first book came, out and, it As i'm sure you probably,
know she was disinherited over that, book but she in
this she claims in this interview it was the only

(01:59:03):
way she could talk to, her to get through to
her mother because her mother wouldn't listen to her or.
Whatever so it's bizarre as. Well But davis apparently had
a very close relationship with her. Mother but by most,

(01:59:26):
accounts or at least Anything i've, read it was a
very good. RELATIONSHIP i don't. Know but in this, INTERVIEW
bd Mentions Joan crawford And Christina crawford and says like
whenever she was in their, company the two of, them she,
SAID i don't Think joan liked. Me she said she

(01:59:50):
it was like she wanted to Keep christina away from
me BECAUSE i would be a bad influence on her or.
Something but she also said something like she Was joan
maybe a germophobe two or. Something but she said she
had a lot of hang ups that even Though christina
AND i should have probably had a friendship of, sorts she,

(02:00:13):
Said joan never let her really even talk to. Me,
then of, course don't forget As i'm sure you both know,
this but there were Certain hollywood people who you, know,
because As jim, Says Joan crawford was dead when this
book came, Out but there were Certain hollywood people who

(02:00:33):
were friends With Joan crawford who were aghast at this
book and Excoriated christina for having written.

Speaker 8 (02:00:41):
It DIDN'T i read, too with feud That Olivia dack
was pretty miffed about this.

Speaker 3 (02:00:47):
Too he SUED i think she was one hundred and
one years, old and Sued Ryan. MURPHY i don't know
her defamation or whatever the basis. WAS i presume didn't
get very, far or maybe because she passed away it.
Ended But otto AND i were, saying if you really
wanted to do another version Of Baby, jane it would

(02:01:11):
have been great to Star olivia De havilin And Joan,
fontaine as they were two sisters who did hate each.
Other Mike wella wanted to run each other down with the,
car AND i.

Speaker 8 (02:01:22):
Do appreciate how they bring all that stuff Into feud as.
WELL i was very. CURIOUS i like the structure of
the whole, series where we are cutting away to these
interviews that are taking place well after the events that
have happened in the past and bringing OUT i Thought
Catherine Senda jones looked absolutely amazing in. That but it
was so weird HOW i was get to confuse a

(02:01:44):
lot of times because she's wearing a blonde. Wig Kathy
bates is wearing a blonde wig As Joan, blondell and
Then Judy davis is wearing a blonde wig as Hed,
Hopper and there were times where they would start in
a long shot And i'd be, Like, okay which blonde does?

Speaker 16 (02:01:59):
This?

Speaker 8 (02:02:00):
Now who AM i looking? At BECAUSE i can't tell the. Difference.

Speaker 3 (02:02:04):
Sometimes, Well Judy davis a few times in the, SERIES
i don't know if it deliberately or, not reminded me
Of Betty davis As Baby, james who was just so
over the top and his wild. HAIR i Loved Judy
davis as an, actress AND i know nothing about the

(02:02:24):
real Head hopper or accorate that, was but, thought, yeah
maybe tone it down a bit when we're talking About.

Speaker 2 (02:02:31):
Hopper it makes me think Of William, hopper who of
course was her, son who Played Paul drake for nine
years on The Perry mason television. Show and these old
actors and. Actresses the woman who Plays Victor buono's mother

(02:02:54):
In Whatever happened To Baby jane As Marjorie, bennett who
appeared in Two Who Barney miller. Episodes later, On tim
reminded me of.

Speaker 3 (02:03:05):
THAT i GUESS i don't recall that being talked about
on The life And times Of Captain Barney. Miller i'm
gonna have to file a. Grievance we do need to
Give Marjorie bennett a shout out because as an awful,
mother she doesn't have many scenes in the, movie but
she's very. Memorable she was.

Speaker 2 (02:03:26):
The female equivalent Of oh that. Guy she was. Wonderful
she was in so many, things and she really was
a great character, actress just so, great and she WAS i,
REMEMBER i know that she was in Two. Barney's the
ONE i remember is where she's the lady who doesn't
understand why they've brought her in because she keeps writing

(02:03:53):
checks for which she has no, funds and when she's
talking To, harris she, says we can straighten. This she goes,
here let me write you a. Check but she was
another great character. ACTRESS i love the character, actors no
matter who are where they, are love them.

Speaker 3 (02:04:09):
All getting back to the camp, issue one of the
things That feud does is make explicit the homosexual community
admiration For Betty davis And Joan crawford, because and AGAIN
i don't know how accurate this was in regards to

(02:04:32):
what actually, happened but When Betty davis first Meets Victor
bono In, feud she seems appalled that this is going
to be my co, star although probably it's not accurate
as it's the novels what he expects that could Be Carry.

Speaker 8 (02:04:48):
Grant but he's perfectly. Cast.

Speaker 3 (02:04:50):
Yeah but then when he, says, oh Miss, DAVIS i love,
you and my community worships, you you could see her.
Softening and then and later in the, series she comes
to his rescue after he's been. ARRESTED i love that
scene where she says he's an. Actor he's just. Here
it didn't engage in anything. Inappropriate he's just doing research for.

(02:05:11):
Film and then the cop doesn't believe, her so she
takes her hat and sunglasses. Off do you believe me?
Now and then you see him with her. Afterwards, oh thank.
YOU i couldn't call my. Mother you're the only ONE
i could reach out. To AS i, SAY i don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:05:27):
That was a great.

Speaker 8 (02:05:28):
Scene, YEAH i don't know if that's, true BUT i
definitely enjoyed that moment in the.

Speaker 3 (02:05:32):
Series, yes it has an artistic truth to, it and
it makes you empathize with both of, them and also
whether it was true For, bono it was certainly true
for so many actors and actresses in that. Time, again
this kind of having to be, hidden and you could

(02:05:53):
see the camp element, saying what is it we? Admire
it's the, outrageousness the sense that these particular actresses go
to the, max and there's just something energizing about.

Speaker 8 (02:06:08):
That all, right, guys let's go ahead and take another
break and play a preview for next week's. Show right
after these brief. Messages Bring Home The Smurfs movie on digital.
Now in this fun epic, adventure The smurf's team up
with new friends on a daring rescue mission to Save
Papa smurf from a league of evil. Wizards by the film,
critics are calling pure comedy magic and get over thirty

(02:06:30):
five minutes Of smurftastic, extras including new music From rihanna And,
moore available at participating, retailers RATED pg From Paramount.

Speaker 9 (02:06:40):
Pictures what about the doll in her?

Speaker 10 (02:07:04):
Apartment could be a? Fetish fetish can be, anything any
non sexual object that incites erotic, feelings in this case at.

Speaker 4 (02:07:16):
All The strangler based on the terrifying crime wave that
has Gripped boston and spread across the.

Speaker 9 (02:07:24):
Country that makes number eight for The. Strangler, yeah it
looks that.

Speaker 4 (02:07:28):
Way Starring Victor, Bono the Shock sensation of whatever happened
To Baby jane has the most, baffling the most horrifying
criminal in a.

Speaker 10 (02:07:38):
Decade there wasn't, rape no evidence in maltreatment after.

Speaker 4 (02:07:44):
Death no woman is safe as long as The strangler
lives and roams at.

Speaker 2 (02:07:50):
Will there are a lot of.

Speaker 9 (02:08:05):
People who don't laugh at me.

Speaker 3 (02:08:06):
Anymore they don't laugh at.

Speaker 6 (02:08:08):
Anymore please go, Away.

Speaker 4 (02:08:17):
I'll go a, strange shocking being of unpredictable. Emotions no
one knows when or where he will strike, again or
who will be his next.

Speaker 8 (02:08:30):
Victim that's, Right we'll be back next week with a

(02:08:53):
look at The strangler As Bueno paloosa. Continues until, THEN
i want to thank my co host for this, Month,
Ottawa tim So. Otto what's keeping you, busy Sir?

Speaker 2 (02:09:03):
Mike how long have we been talking about? This i'm finally,
working in, fact finishing the index for The baseball book
that hopefully will be out By august Or september of this.
Year that's What i'm, doing and still happy to talk
to anybody who wants to talk About Barney miller at any.

Speaker 8 (02:09:21):
Time And, tim how about, yourself what's new in your?

Speaker 3 (02:09:24):
World, Well i'm a professor enjoying my summer, holiday AND
i too am willing to Talk Barney miller anytime of
day or. Night so if anyone want has that, craving
just give me a. Holler my heart was broken when
The life And times Of Captain Barney miller podcast came
to an.

Speaker 2 (02:09:42):
End that's Why Bear manor Published Barney miller in The
files of The Old one. Too so for whenever you're
missing talking About Barney, miller you just crack open that, book.

Speaker 3 (02:09:53):
Baby although the sad reality is that was perhaps the
only show That victor did not appear. On that that's, True.

Speaker 10 (02:10:05):
That's.

Speaker 2 (02:10:05):
True you would have been. Great oh my, god there
were any number of roles he could have.

Speaker 8 (02:10:09):
Played thank you guys for being on the. Show thanks
to everybody for. Listening if you want to hear more
of me shooting off my, mouth check out some of
the other shows THAT i work. On they are all
available At wadingwaymedia dot. Com thanks especially to Our patreon.
Community if you want to join the, community Visit patreon
dot com Slash Projection. Booth every donation we get helps
The Projection booth And Victor bono take over the.

Speaker 6 (02:10:30):
World whatever happened To Baby? James she could?

Speaker 16 (02:10:46):
Done she could, say make a, Range, jamie do most.
Anything whatever happened To Baby? James whatever happened To Baby
jane when she walked.

Speaker 14 (02:11:05):
Down the, Street oh the, world the fun at her?

Speaker 6 (02:11:10):
Feet there was no one happened?

Speaker 16 (02:11:11):
Sweet whatever happened their Babes, JAPE i see her all
movies ON, tv and they are always a grilled to.
Me my daddy, SAYS i could be just like. Her
for HOW i WISH i, WISH i WISH i WISH i.

(02:11:32):
Were whatever happened To Baby? Jane so a, smile her golden.
HAIR i must ever take me sorefairs or.

Speaker 1 (02:11:44):
No one looked.

Speaker 16 (02:11:45):
Care what really happened to Babes.

Speaker 15 (02:11:49):
Jane here's what happened to Baby. Jane she didn't grow,
Up she just grew.

Speaker 14 (02:12:01):
Old she was waiting for that big day that her
daddy said would. Come that's what happened to Baby. Jane
here's what happened to Baby. Jane she thought the world
was at her.

Speaker 15 (02:12:20):
Feet that is what her daddy said was, True but
her daddy didn't always.

Speaker 14 (02:12:27):
Know your daddy doesn't always. Know so by the past forty,
years her life has been nothing but. Tears her daddy
said something great wants to.

Speaker 6 (02:12:44):
Be and she held them old and old daddy. Hot
and that's what happened to Baby.

Speaker 16 (02:12:50):
Jane you were, smile her smile air loaded.

Speaker 6 (02:12:55):
HER i must Everything.

Speaker 14 (02:12:57):
He's on there now there's no one left.

Speaker 1 (02:13:00):
Here and that's what.

Speaker 6 (02:13:01):
Happens, Today.

Speaker 9 (02:13:03):
Jane and that's what happened.

Speaker 3 (02:13:06):
To J.

Speaker 14 (02:13:09):
What really happened to Jan.

Speaker 6 (02:13:13):
And that's what happened to J

Speaker 14 (02:13:16):
What really happened To jane

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 757: What Ever Happened to Baby Jane (1962)

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Episode 757: What Ever Happened to Baby Jane (1962)

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