July 25, 2025 • 20 mins
Mike speaks with co-director Fax Bahr and archivist James Mockoski about the stunning new 4K restoration of Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker’s Apocalypse (1991), the definitive behind-the-scenes documentary chronicling the infamously turbulent production of Apocalypse Now.
What began as a Vietnam War epic in the Philippines became one of the most harrowing shoots in cinematic history—captured on 16mm by Eleanor Coppola and transformed into a raw, revelatory portrait by Bahr and co-director George Hickenlooper. Bahr discusses the collaborative assembly of Eleanor’s intimate footage, audio diaries, and newly recorded interviews with stars like Martin Sheen and Dennis Hopper.
Meanwhile, Mockoski details how American Zoetrope restored the film from the original elements for the first time, regrading in 4K, restoring the original 2.39:1 aspect ratio, and remixing the sound in 5.1. With the full blessing of Francis Ford Coppola, this restoration brings fresh clarity and depth to a film that remains a blistering, essential look at artistic obsession, collapse, and endurance.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-projection-booth-podcast--5513239/support.
What began as a Vietnam War epic in the Philippines became one of the most harrowing shoots in cinematic history—captured on 16mm by Eleanor Coppola and transformed into a raw, revelatory portrait by Bahr and co-director George Hickenlooper. Bahr discusses the collaborative assembly of Eleanor’s intimate footage, audio diaries, and newly recorded interviews with stars like Martin Sheen and Dennis Hopper.
Meanwhile, Mockoski details how American Zoetrope restored the film from the original elements for the first time, regrading in 4K, restoring the original 2.39:1 aspect ratio, and remixing the sound in 5.1. With the full blessing of Francis Ford Coppola, this restoration brings fresh clarity and depth to a film that remains a blistering, essential look at artistic obsession, collapse, and endurance.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-projection-booth-podcast--5513239/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Old you is, folks.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's show tied.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
People say, good money to see this movie.
Speaker 4 (00:10):
When they go out to a theater, they want clod sodas,
hot popcorn, and no monsters.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
In the Protection Booth.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Cut it off.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It's scary to watch someone you love confront failures. Jeah,
fear of going insane. It's what it was really like.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I was making it on the crest of the acclaim
of the Godfather films.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Every day, one hundred problems. But I don't know what
I'm doing. I said, who is this?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Willard?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
And Francis look me square in the eye and he said,
he's you. Brandon agreed to the million dollars a week.
Are they seriously saying that Marlon would not show up?
It was like you want to dream. I was not
in the greatest of the shape. Just do what I am.
Marty's had a heart attack. I already had him post
(01:29):
called the film is not about Vietnam.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
It is Vietnam.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth.
I'm your host Mike White. On this episode, it's the
return of Facts Bear. He is the director of the
documentary Hearts of Darkness, the film all about the making
of Apocalypse Now. Also on this episode, I'm talking with
James McCosky. I inter the two of them together as
(02:02):
there is a new restoration of Hearts of Darkness that
is now touring around. Hearts of Darkness is one of
the best films about the making of a film around.
I talk with Facts way back when when we discussed
Apocalypse Now as a specific episode, talk to me a
little bit more about the making of the film, and
mister mccoskey talked to me a little bit more about
(02:23):
the restoration, and I'm hoping he might come on the
show later on this year when we talk about Megalopolis.
Thank you so much for listening. Hope you enjoy the episode.
James and Facts, It's great to talk with you guys. Facts.
I'm super excited to talk with you again and we're
talking about kind of the same subject we discussed last
(02:43):
time in a new light, which is Hearts of Darkness.
Can you tell me Facts a little bit about how
this project originally came to be Sure.
Speaker 6 (02:52):
Yeah, I was working with a behind the scenes electronic
press kit company and George Zuloum, who was running the company,
had just read Ellie Coppola's notes and he said, she
talks about this all this documentary footage. Have you ever
heard of a film being made about the making of Apocalypse?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I said no, and he goes, I'm gonna call zoa troupe.
Speaker 6 (03:13):
So he did, and they were more than happy to
talk to us about looking at the footage and making
a film out of it.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So that's how it was born.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And then James, give me a little bit of your
background from why I understand you've been working with the
Copola camp since the seventies.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Oh god, note and I'll go back that far. You
just did that to make a joke, didn't you.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Now.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
I started with Zoetrup around two thousand and one, two
thousand and two, just right after Francis recut Apocalypse now Reducts,
so he became very familiar with all the assets of that,
what it took to remake or recut Apocalypse. So it
was about ten years after Fax's endeavor with Eleanor and
George Ingenlooper on Hearts of Darkness.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Your fromography looks crazy on IMDb because you help restore
these films. So it looks like you've been working since
nineteen twenty six with the Jones.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Kis exactly right. Yes, I go back to the silent era.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
It's funny you don't look a day over twenty five.
He's a vampire. So tell me a little bit about
the restoration process with this, because I mean I saw
this originally in the theater when it first came out,
and then I think the last time I saw it
was on DHS.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
Maybe Eleanor passed away about a year ago, and she
knew she was sick. We had gone through her collection
of titles that she had worked on over the years
from the seventies. We were working on her collection as
she was ill, and it was very important for her
(04:43):
to go through her entire life and go through all
our films and make sure that they were all in
good shape. I'd say that it was a good time
to go with hearts and targans with her. She unfortunately
she passed before she saw the restoration, but she knew
that it was being restored at that time.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
What were some of the challenges or spurring this film.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
It's always about finding the assets.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
All the sixteen milimeter was jumbled boxes, mislabeled thirty years ago,
and it's just sort of climbing back or trying to
be the detective of finding where everything was put thirty
or so years ago. And that's the story about every
single film that gets packed out. At the end of
the show, you know, you'll open up a box and
you'll see why did someone keep sixty two grease pencils
(05:28):
that were paying our white gloves?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
You know.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
But it's just like that mad dash of packing up
a show at the end, having the discussion with facts
about it was originally a stereo mix and maybe we
should do a five to one, should be upgraded, it's appropriate.
What about when we go to the Apocalypse now clips.
You were back in the day when they did this documentary,
(05:54):
everybody had a square television.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
It was four x three.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
So when they did the two three five Apocalypse now
aspect ratio, they had a letter box it. So this
big film got so tiny in the story, and so
we thought it would be great for the presentation. It
is like the breakout of that box. Still the interviews
and the footage Eleanor shot are still they were shot
four x three at that time. But Apocalypse at least
(06:20):
we break out of that four x three broocks and
go to the original aspect ratio, so at least has
that impact.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And I always love that.
Speaker 6 (06:27):
I mean, it's history, right, It's a living history, and
this is the way the format was and you see it,
you know it change and I always feel a fine
that really locks the story into the time it was made.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
So I'm a fan of that.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I know a lot of people are distracted by it,
but I love it.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Beck's how is it going back to this material after
all these years? I mean, obviously we talked about this
quite a few years ago. To make such a big
splash of one of your early projects, do you feel
haunted or are you proud of this?
Speaker 6 (06:58):
Not haunted at all?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And know what's fabulous about her?
Speaker 6 (07:04):
Just really what James was able to do with that footage,
because it is I don't think we really I don't
think there was a lot of attention paid to coloring
the first film when it came out. I think just
hurried it out there and it looks fine. You know,
it's sort of flat, but really it's a beautiful restoration
the whole new experience. I mean, they really nailed really
(07:24):
got into dug into the US. The inner negative is that, right, James.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
It was the original sixteen elimeter footage that she shot
and then the stuff that you shot on either sixteen
we went back six two, so it was all original
and negative.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So it's gorgeous. I mean, it's really it's a new experience.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
The thing with Eleanor and we talked We've talked about
this a few times, Fax and I is what it
took Ellie to do and achieve back in the seventies,
being a woman on our own put this film together,
you know, And it wasn't really put together. It was
sort of put in the closet after Apocalypse now wrapped,
(08:05):
and it was not till facts credit and Less Mayfield
and George Zloom who unearthed all this, wanted to uncover
this story that was just sort of forgotten about. And
it's interesting because being in the trenches of Apocalypse, it
was so raw in that moment, it was so such
(08:26):
a difficult experience for the family. Shooting it was sort
of Francis's first bankruptcy and then going from Apocalypse from
the Philippines into Hollywood to go into his studio Zoetrope
Studios and producing one from the Heart, which was another
our difficulties. So I could see and it was great.
(08:48):
The timing of this documentary worked so well because it
needed ten years to just sort of sit and coalesce
and not be so raw and freshened people's memory, just
let it percolate for a little while, and so I
think it came out a very good time.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Was there any discussion of possibly recutting this while you
had the opportunity.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
No, Facts never expressed that, thankfully. I think as perfect
as it is, it's what it is interesting because Francis
always has a list of the things that he wants
to do or go back or didn't feel like he
had enough to say on things. Well, one, this wasn't
his film, and he's always very respectful of that. But
here for his films, you know, he'll go, oh, well,
(09:27):
I wish I did this with The Godfather. I wish
I did this with Apocalypse. But then he'll say, I
won't touch the conversation. It was perfect.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
He's that wrong.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
There's things that he can let go and there's other
things that he feels like, No, I.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Wish I could push it a little bit. Now.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I was curious Facts if there was footage that you
had wanted to use maybe and couldn't figure out how
to put it in there.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
My first cut was four and a half hours, maybe
even longer. I mean there was a ton, honest well,
Ellie covered everything from pre production through post production. There
were some wonderful scenes Michael Hare and Marty Sheen recording
the incredible voiceover down in the basement of the zoetrop
recording studio. Yeah, there were a lot of darlings we
(10:11):
had to kill, but to get it down to the
ninety minutes that it is.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
It leads at a very good spot where the premiere
in Westwood, but it goes in another journey after can
It does go into another post production sort of quagmire
that never really gets explained.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
But post production is not sexy for the nerds.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
It's for us, but it's really on set stuff and
I think facts really they shaped it in.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
A very perfect way so and then set a perfect note.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, no, I could totally nerd out on that. I mean,
I'm one of the guys who tracked down the old
VHS tapes of the work print of Apocalypse and just yeah,
I got as much of this movie as I possibly
can see so when your documentary came out, it was
just such a revelation. And then I love the approach
that you took to it to really give you that
(11:03):
sense of history as far as how long people have
been talking about doing an adaptation of it, and that
footage with Wells, I thought that was wonderful and such
a great kind of springboard into here's this maverick who
is trying to create this project. Let's see how another maverick,
you know, thirty forty years later tried his approach.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Of course, I think Wells and Francis have a lot
in common in a certain way in terms of their
relationship with the powers that be in Hollywood, and they
both manage to make great art in the faces system
that's not really that interested in it.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
So yeah, to tie the two.
Speaker 6 (11:45):
Together was I think it was just meant to be.
They stand on the same stage.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
In my opinion, it is interesting that Francis stumbles into
these situations where Hollywood doesn't want it. They didn't want
Apocalypse Now, but they've grown and appreciate it and becomes
its classic. But over the years, it's no different than
what he's trying to do with the Megalopolis Polly doesn't
want this, but I'm doing it for me. These are
the stories that he's passionate about, and same with one
(12:14):
from the heart.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Or what.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
It's These are stories that are personal to him, passionate about.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And you know, if it's a great success, great and
if not, maybe in time.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
It took twenty thirty years for Apocalypse Now to really
get out of the hole bankruptcy that it was in
to be appreciated. So he says, you know, art may
not be appreciated in this exact moment, but maybe an
audience will come around twenty thirty years and find it
in a new light.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
He's making his own on his own terms.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So is this just kind of the timeless right to
finally do this thirty four years later after Hearts came out?
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Well, yeah, I was probably looking at my library and
we've done all the titles and like, well we're at
the bottom here, let's get Bart said target dig if it. Yes,
that just felt right. You know, there's no real anniversary
to it or any it just it was just time
to do it.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
So what is the plan to roll this out? Are
we seeing this theatrically? Is there going to be a
blue ray release next year.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
It was released the last Friday, July fourth, at rial
to the Film Forum, and now it's starting to get
bookings around the country, so people can go to rialto
dot com and start booking it, call your local theater
and demand you got a lot of people have been
booking it along with Apocalypse Now. We always caution bookers
(13:40):
or the theaters because they want to book Apocalypse Now
and Hearts of Darkness together on the same day, and
Francis doesn't really ever like that, and it sort of
takes away from the experience of the film itself. You
watch Arts of Darkness and then you're imagining, oh, this
is where Francis was crazy in this moment. It's like,
I just want you to experience the film without all
knowing what was going on set. So he loves a
(14:03):
little distance between the two becks.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Did you get to go to any of those opening
these screenings?
Speaker 6 (14:09):
No, I did not go to New York at a
premiered at the Film Form of New York last week,
but I will be at the Lost Fuleast three in
Los Angeles July twentieth doing a Q and A and
it's screening of the twentieth twenty third and twenty fourth.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
And doing a Q and A the twentieth and the
twenty fourth.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I'm really excited to hear how that goes. To be
able to see this film with an audience again after
all these years has to be pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
It's the way it's meant to be seen.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
I'm really hoping that it comes to Detroit because I
would love to see this on the big screen again
and then have that experience of breaking out of that frame,
because it's got to be spectacular.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
It's different from the original presentation, but we're originally you know,
whatever people have been seeing or hearing of Hearts of Darkness.
Two songs were cut out in our last interview. People
astute enough to know that, oh will it have anything
goes or the Susie Hughes back in because they were
cut out because of licensing issues. Well they were expensive time,
(15:11):
but we finally sorted that out. Now we have gone
back to that original soundtrack that Vacts in his team
provided back in the nineties, the original aspect ratio making
the impact. I think having Apocalypse sound as it was
originally mixed to is an important aspect of the presentation and.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
If memory serves. You worked on the restoration of that
as well.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
For all three versions.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Yes, I don't go back to the red I just
got onto the reducts, but subsequently restored all three Since.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Then, Bex, what are you working on these days other
than this restoration?
Speaker 6 (15:44):
I just picture lot to documentary feature documentary. It's a
portrait of an environmental activist done on the Texas Gulf coast.
She's a shrimp boat captain and she fought and won
the largest clean water ect lawsuit against microplastics manufacturer who's
egregiously polluting the bays their family had fished for four generations.
(16:09):
So it's a David versus Goliath story, not unlike actually
Francis's journey with a problems. They're like going up the
Sissifian with out the words Spifian effort of win to
bring this this whatever effort she had, you know, up
the hill and over for the wind.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
So yeah, so I'm.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Excited about that. I think it's I think it's a
good film, and it's she's an amazing character.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
That's fantastic. Yeah, I can never know what you're working
on because you moved between genres so fluidly, you know,
it's like, oh, the guy who worked with poly Schor
all these times, said Jamie Kennedy also makes these incredible
documentaries too.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
It's adhd okay, there you go.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And then James, are you working on the the Mega doc.
I'm super excited for this.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, Mega doc.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
We'll see them light a day and we probably should
hear news in the next couple months.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Gentlemen, I am so excited to have talked with you
today about this, and I'm really hoping that more people
get to see Hearts of Darkness again on the big screen.
I caught myself as very lucky way back in nineteen
ninety one to be able to have seen this, so
now more eyes on it all these years later in
this restored version. Super excited for it.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Thank thanks, Mike, appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
This stall step of sa seep step came so to
(18:42):
the south the sun strange sp insistency becassistants to chop
(20:30):
to fout sixty sis
Old you is, folks.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's show tied.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
People say, good money to see this movie.
Speaker 4 (00:10):
When they go out to a theater, they want clod sodas,
hot popcorn, and no monsters.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
In the Protection Booth.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Cut it off.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It's scary to watch someone you love confront failures. Jeah,
fear of going insane. It's what it was really like.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I was making it on the crest of the acclaim
of the Godfather films.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Every day, one hundred problems. But I don't know what
I'm doing. I said, who is this?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Willard?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
And Francis look me square in the eye and he said,
he's you. Brandon agreed to the million dollars a week.
Are they seriously saying that Marlon would not show up?
It was like you want to dream. I was not
in the greatest of the shape. Just do what I am.
Marty's had a heart attack. I already had him post
(01:29):
called the film is not about Vietnam.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
It is Vietnam.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth.
I'm your host Mike White. On this episode, it's the
return of Facts Bear. He is the director of the
documentary Hearts of Darkness, the film all about the making
of Apocalypse Now. Also on this episode, I'm talking with
James McCosky. I inter the two of them together as
(02:02):
there is a new restoration of Hearts of Darkness that
is now touring around. Hearts of Darkness is one of
the best films about the making of a film around.
I talk with Facts way back when when we discussed
Apocalypse Now as a specific episode, talk to me a
little bit more about the making of the film, and
mister mccoskey talked to me a little bit more about
(02:23):
the restoration, and I'm hoping he might come on the
show later on this year when we talk about Megalopolis.
Thank you so much for listening. Hope you enjoy the episode.
James and Facts, It's great to talk with you guys. Facts.
I'm super excited to talk with you again and we're
talking about kind of the same subject we discussed last
(02:43):
time in a new light, which is Hearts of Darkness.
Can you tell me Facts a little bit about how
this project originally came to be Sure.
Speaker 6 (02:52):
Yeah, I was working with a behind the scenes electronic
press kit company and George Zuloum, who was running the company,
had just read Ellie Coppola's notes and he said, she
talks about this all this documentary footage. Have you ever
heard of a film being made about the making of Apocalypse?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I said no, and he goes, I'm gonna call zoa troupe.
Speaker 6 (03:13):
So he did, and they were more than happy to
talk to us about looking at the footage and making
a film out of it.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So that's how it was born.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And then James, give me a little bit of your
background from why I understand you've been working with the
Copola camp since the seventies.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Oh god, note and I'll go back that far. You
just did that to make a joke, didn't you.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Now.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
I started with Zoetrup around two thousand and one, two
thousand and two, just right after Francis recut Apocalypse now Reducts,
so he became very familiar with all the assets of that,
what it took to remake or recut Apocalypse. So it
was about ten years after Fax's endeavor with Eleanor and
George Ingenlooper on Hearts of Darkness.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Your fromography looks crazy on IMDb because you help restore
these films. So it looks like you've been working since
nineteen twenty six with the Jones.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Kis exactly right. Yes, I go back to the silent era.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
It's funny you don't look a day over twenty five.
He's a vampire. So tell me a little bit about
the restoration process with this, because I mean I saw
this originally in the theater when it first came out,
and then I think the last time I saw it
was on DHS.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
Maybe Eleanor passed away about a year ago, and she
knew she was sick. We had gone through her collection
of titles that she had worked on over the years
from the seventies. We were working on her collection as
she was ill, and it was very important for her
(04:43):
to go through her entire life and go through all
our films and make sure that they were all in
good shape. I'd say that it was a good time
to go with hearts and targans with her. She unfortunately
she passed before she saw the restoration, but she knew
that it was being restored at that time.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
What were some of the challenges or spurring this film.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
It's always about finding the assets.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
All the sixteen milimeter was jumbled boxes, mislabeled thirty years ago,
and it's just sort of climbing back or trying to
be the detective of finding where everything was put thirty
or so years ago. And that's the story about every
single film that gets packed out. At the end of
the show, you know, you'll open up a box and
you'll see why did someone keep sixty two grease pencils
(05:28):
that were paying our white gloves?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
You know.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
But it's just like that mad dash of packing up
a show at the end, having the discussion with facts
about it was originally a stereo mix and maybe we
should do a five to one, should be upgraded, it's appropriate.
What about when we go to the Apocalypse now clips.
You were back in the day when they did this documentary,
(05:54):
everybody had a square television.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
It was four x three.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
So when they did the two three five Apocalypse now
aspect ratio, they had a letter box it. So this
big film got so tiny in the story, and so
we thought it would be great for the presentation. It
is like the breakout of that box. Still the interviews
and the footage Eleanor shot are still they were shot
four x three at that time. But Apocalypse at least
(06:20):
we break out of that four x three broocks and
go to the original aspect ratio, so at least has
that impact.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And I always love that.
Speaker 6 (06:27):
I mean, it's history, right, It's a living history, and
this is the way the format was and you see it,
you know it change and I always feel a fine
that really locks the story into the time it was made.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
So I'm a fan of that.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I know a lot of people are distracted by it,
but I love it.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Beck's how is it going back to this material after
all these years? I mean, obviously we talked about this
quite a few years ago. To make such a big
splash of one of your early projects, do you feel
haunted or are you proud of this?
Speaker 6 (06:58):
Not haunted at all?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And know what's fabulous about her?
Speaker 6 (07:04):
Just really what James was able to do with that footage,
because it is I don't think we really I don't
think there was a lot of attention paid to coloring
the first film when it came out. I think just
hurried it out there and it looks fine. You know,
it's sort of flat, but really it's a beautiful restoration
the whole new experience. I mean, they really nailed really
(07:24):
got into dug into the US. The inner negative is that, right, James.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
It was the original sixteen elimeter footage that she shot
and then the stuff that you shot on either sixteen
we went back six two, so it was all original
and negative.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So it's gorgeous. I mean, it's really it's a new experience.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
The thing with Eleanor and we talked We've talked about
this a few times, Fax and I is what it
took Ellie to do and achieve back in the seventies,
being a woman on our own put this film together,
you know, And it wasn't really put together. It was
sort of put in the closet after Apocalypse now wrapped,
(08:05):
and it was not till facts credit and Less Mayfield
and George Zloom who unearthed all this, wanted to uncover
this story that was just sort of forgotten about. And
it's interesting because being in the trenches of Apocalypse, it
was so raw in that moment, it was so such
(08:26):
a difficult experience for the family. Shooting it was sort
of Francis's first bankruptcy and then going from Apocalypse from
the Philippines into Hollywood to go into his studio Zoetrope
Studios and producing one from the Heart, which was another
our difficulties. So I could see and it was great.
(08:48):
The timing of this documentary worked so well because it
needed ten years to just sort of sit and coalesce
and not be so raw and freshened people's memory, just
let it percolate for a little while, and so I
think it came out a very good time.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Was there any discussion of possibly recutting this while you
had the opportunity.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
No, Facts never expressed that, thankfully. I think as perfect
as it is, it's what it is interesting because Francis
always has a list of the things that he wants
to do or go back or didn't feel like he
had enough to say on things. Well, one, this wasn't
his film, and he's always very respectful of that. But
here for his films, you know, he'll go, oh, well,
(09:27):
I wish I did this with The Godfather. I wish
I did this with Apocalypse. But then he'll say, I
won't touch the conversation. It was perfect.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
He's that wrong.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
There's things that he can let go and there's other
things that he feels like, No, I.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Wish I could push it a little bit. Now.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I was curious Facts if there was footage that you
had wanted to use maybe and couldn't figure out how
to put it in there.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
My first cut was four and a half hours, maybe
even longer. I mean there was a ton, honest well,
Ellie covered everything from pre production through post production. There
were some wonderful scenes Michael Hare and Marty Sheen recording
the incredible voiceover down in the basement of the zoetrop
recording studio. Yeah, there were a lot of darlings we
(10:11):
had to kill, but to get it down to the
ninety minutes that it is.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
It leads at a very good spot where the premiere
in Westwood, but it goes in another journey after can
It does go into another post production sort of quagmire
that never really gets explained.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
But post production is not sexy for the nerds.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
It's for us, but it's really on set stuff and
I think facts really they shaped it in.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
A very perfect way so and then set a perfect note.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, no, I could totally nerd out on that. I mean,
I'm one of the guys who tracked down the old
VHS tapes of the work print of Apocalypse and just yeah,
I got as much of this movie as I possibly
can see so when your documentary came out, it was
just such a revelation. And then I love the approach
that you took to it to really give you that
(11:03):
sense of history as far as how long people have
been talking about doing an adaptation of it, and that
footage with Wells, I thought that was wonderful and such
a great kind of springboard into here's this maverick who
is trying to create this project. Let's see how another maverick,
you know, thirty forty years later tried his approach.
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Of course, I think Wells and Francis have a lot
in common in a certain way in terms of their
relationship with the powers that be in Hollywood, and they
both manage to make great art in the faces system
that's not really that interested in it.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
So yeah, to tie the two.
Speaker 6 (11:45):
Together was I think it was just meant to be.
They stand on the same stage.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
In my opinion, it is interesting that Francis stumbles into
these situations where Hollywood doesn't want it. They didn't want
Apocalypse Now, but they've grown and appreciate it and becomes
its classic. But over the years, it's no different than
what he's trying to do with the Megalopolis Polly doesn't
want this, but I'm doing it for me. These are
the stories that he's passionate about, and same with one
(12:14):
from the heart.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Or what.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
It's These are stories that are personal to him, passionate about.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And you know, if it's a great success, great and
if not, maybe in time.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
It took twenty thirty years for Apocalypse Now to really
get out of the hole bankruptcy that it was in
to be appreciated. So he says, you know, art may
not be appreciated in this exact moment, but maybe an
audience will come around twenty thirty years and find it
in a new light.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
He's making his own on his own terms.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So is this just kind of the timeless right to
finally do this thirty four years later after Hearts came out?
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Well, yeah, I was probably looking at my library and
we've done all the titles and like, well we're at
the bottom here, let's get Bart said target dig if it. Yes,
that just felt right. You know, there's no real anniversary
to it or any it just it was just time
to do it.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
So what is the plan to roll this out? Are
we seeing this theatrically? Is there going to be a
blue ray release next year.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
It was released the last Friday, July fourth, at rial
to the Film Forum, and now it's starting to get
bookings around the country, so people can go to rialto
dot com and start booking it, call your local theater
and demand you got a lot of people have been
booking it along with Apocalypse Now. We always caution bookers
(13:40):
or the theaters because they want to book Apocalypse Now
and Hearts of Darkness together on the same day, and
Francis doesn't really ever like that, and it sort of
takes away from the experience of the film itself. You
watch Arts of Darkness and then you're imagining, oh, this
is where Francis was crazy in this moment. It's like,
I just want you to experience the film without all
knowing what was going on set. So he loves a
(14:03):
little distance between the two becks.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Did you get to go to any of those opening
these screenings?
Speaker 6 (14:09):
No, I did not go to New York at a
premiered at the Film Form of New York last week,
but I will be at the Lost Fuleast three in
Los Angeles July twentieth doing a Q and A and
it's screening of the twentieth twenty third and twenty fourth.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
And doing a Q and A the twentieth and the
twenty fourth.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I'm really excited to hear how that goes. To be
able to see this film with an audience again after
all these years has to be pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
It's the way it's meant to be seen.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
I'm really hoping that it comes to Detroit because I
would love to see this on the big screen again
and then have that experience of breaking out of that frame,
because it's got to be spectacular.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
It's different from the original presentation, but we're originally you know,
whatever people have been seeing or hearing of Hearts of Darkness.
Two songs were cut out in our last interview. People
astute enough to know that, oh will it have anything
goes or the Susie Hughes back in because they were
cut out because of licensing issues. Well they were expensive time,
(15:11):
but we finally sorted that out. Now we have gone
back to that original soundtrack that Vacts in his team
provided back in the nineties, the original aspect ratio making
the impact. I think having Apocalypse sound as it was
originally mixed to is an important aspect of the presentation and.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
If memory serves. You worked on the restoration of that
as well.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
For all three versions.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Yes, I don't go back to the red I just
got onto the reducts, but subsequently restored all three Since.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Then, Bex, what are you working on these days other
than this restoration?
Speaker 6 (15:44):
I just picture lot to documentary feature documentary. It's a
portrait of an environmental activist done on the Texas Gulf coast.
She's a shrimp boat captain and she fought and won
the largest clean water ect lawsuit against microplastics manufacturer who's
egregiously polluting the bays their family had fished for four generations.
(16:09):
So it's a David versus Goliath story, not unlike actually
Francis's journey with a problems. They're like going up the
Sissifian with out the words Spifian effort of win to
bring this this whatever effort she had, you know, up
the hill and over for the wind.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
So yeah, so I'm.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Excited about that. I think it's I think it's a
good film, and it's she's an amazing character.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
That's fantastic. Yeah, I can never know what you're working
on because you moved between genres so fluidly, you know,
it's like, oh, the guy who worked with poly Schor
all these times, said Jamie Kennedy also makes these incredible
documentaries too.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
It's adhd okay, there you go.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And then James, are you working on the the Mega doc.
I'm super excited for this.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, Mega doc.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
We'll see them light a day and we probably should
hear news in the next couple months.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Gentlemen, I am so excited to have talked with you
today about this, and I'm really hoping that more people
get to see Hearts of Darkness again on the big screen.
I caught myself as very lucky way back in nineteen
ninety one to be able to have seen this, so
now more eyes on it all these years later in
this restored version. Super excited for it.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Thank thanks, Mike, appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
This stall step of sa seep step came so to
(18:42):
the south the sun strange sp insistency becassistants to chop
(20:30):
to fout sixty sis
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