Special Report: RIP Stuart "Feedback" Andrews

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hey, folks, welcome to a very special episode of the
Projection Booth. No easy way of saying this, but I
recently learned of the passing recently of Stuart Feedback Andrews.
He was our co host on the Adventures of Ford
fairlay in episode, but more than that, he was a
friend of mine. I don't remember how or where I

(01:02):
met Stuart. Despite what some listeners may think, my memory,
especially about myself, is rubbish. I'm sure I share a
mutual friend who must have introduced us, as I have
luckily a lot of friends up in Toronto. When I
met Stuart, he was still the host of the Roomboorg

(01:22):
radio podcast. I know we had talked via email before
we met him person. I'm pretty sure I met him
in probably December twenty ten for a weekend where I
was coming up to Toronto promoting my book and possibly
Funky at Cashier's to Sinemark Collection. And for anyone who

(01:43):
gets pissed off that I call it my book, it's
not just me. There are a lot of other authors
who wrote for that book as well, but I was
the one that kind of brought it all together. I
was the founder of the zine so That's why I
usually call it my book, so gees if you get
bent out of shape that there are actually other writers there,

(02:05):
including my friends Scauz Sizzek, who wrote about John Pays's
Crime Wave and in Toronto, I was there for a
screening of Pays's Crime Wave at the Toronto Underground Cinema
and if I remember right, we had a dinner setup
before the screening, including mister Pays. That was great seeing

(02:25):
him and I can't remember if I was actually late
or threatened to be late because of Stuart, because Stuart
would talk, and as evidenced by this show, so can I.
We got together that day in December twenty ten at
the Room Org Radio studio. I was kind of creepy

(02:48):
in there. There was no one around. It was a Saturday.
He showed me around a little bit and then we
sat down to talk about the book and mostly about
Quentin Tarantina. And we talked for gosh, at least four hours,
if not more, and it was.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
So easy to talk with him.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Now that episode of Rumork Radio never came out. Yeah,
I was really trying to promote the book. Thought an
episode on Rumork Radio would really be a good shot
in the arm. But yeah, it never happened, and me
like a dope, I went back again to the studio
on another trip to Toronto. For some reason, I keep

(03:30):
thinking it's my trip in twenty seventeen when I went
up there to see Morris Brestinsky and a couple other
podcast friends. But I don't think it was. I think
it must have been earlier. Whenever it was. I sat
down with Stewart again for at least another five hours,
where we discussed, of all things Colombo. I was kind

(03:52):
of the precursor of The Shabby Detective. We went through
all of the NBC years, episode by episode, just kind
of hashing out how much at least I love Colombo,
and I'm pretty sure he did as well, Otherwise he
probably wouldn't have stuck in for gosh, probably another five
hours of us talking and again never aired. I'm not

(04:16):
sure if they even got edited though. Speaking of editing,
Stuart was very inspirational when it came to editing. I
loved how in his room work podcasts he would do
dropping sound clips, trailers, songs as the episode went along,
just kind of bringing the references to life or kind

(04:38):
of enhancing things. So I always dog that well. I
will admit Stuart was a little bit of an odd bird.
I remember him complaining that Roomwork was kicking him off
the air, that they were taking all the episodes down.
Gave me a lot of details about that, and I
don't really want to get into too much here, but

(05:00):
I don't really want to make any new enemies at
the moment. And I don't know why he didn't have
backups of all of his shows and just publish them
someplace else, or at least had them available to download someplace,
or maybe he just didn't care. It was kind of
a kind of a weird pattern of almost self sabotage

(05:22):
with him. And then he had done a radio show
on CKLN FM eighty eight point one, and I remember
even going to the studio there with him, either that
first time I met him or another time. And that
show that he did their Cinephobia Radio. He turned that
into a podcast as well. And I'll admit that I

(05:45):
sometimes have a hard time keeping Cinophobia and Romorg Radio
straight in my head, as Stuart was such a strong
personality and they just both kind of seemed like one show.
He had a real interesting use of language. He already
had his English accent. I think it was liverpudleyan Scouse accent,

(06:07):
but he emphasized those melodic tones in his voice, with
his vocabulary that brought in bits of like nadsat, like
slushy well little Drew Gee's and rather than Choedes, he
would say Chones and would double down on this with insinophobia,
with things like the Attack of the Chones episode. I

(06:29):
was enjoyed listening to his shows, despite some of the
dramatics and behind the scenes drama that would bleed through
the episodes. I remember it took a long time before
I could tolerate Stuart's co host, Lance Chance Lance, though
I ended up meeting Lance in person once and he
was actually really decent, very funny, and very nice to me,

(06:54):
and I kind of wonder if he was just supposed
to be super obnoxious on the air, or if that
is just the personality that came out once he was
in front of a microphone. I met Lance at one
of the two Fan Expo events that I was invited to,
and that's where I moderated Q and A sessions one
year for Orlando Jones and Danny Trejo two separate sessions,

(07:18):
and the next for Christopher Lloyd and who do I
have to thank for that gig? Mister Stuart Feedback Andrews.
He really looked out for me. He especially did in
twenty thirteen because he was responsible for connecting me with
the person who figured out that Leanne Spider Baby McDougall
was a serial plagiarist just like her then boyfriend Quentin Tarantino.

(07:42):
Stuart gave me just enough information and forwarded me enough
emails for me to do the piecing together of the
evidence that Paul And is it okay that I finally
say that was Paul Krup who did all the hard
work before that. Anyway, it's been twelve years. I also
wanted to give credit to Paul, and I felt bad
being something of the public face of the unmasking of

(08:05):
that scandal, But I was far enough away from it
and had my reputation, I suppose of being a little
bit of a burr under Tarantino's butt to maintain. So
it was kind of perfect for me to be the
mouthpiece for all of that. Back in twenty fifteen, Stuart
latched onto a story about Tarantino's buddy Eli Roth. Twenty

(08:28):
fifteen was an interesting year. For Roth as he had
his cannibal movie Green Inferno, that had a US theatrical
run that started September twenty fifth, twenty fifteen, though it
had played at the Toronto Film Festival back in twenty thirteen.
And he also had the remake of Death Game called
Knock Knock coming out October ninth, twenty fifteen, like two

(08:51):
weeks later, and I remember being reached out to and
asked if I could please give Knock Knock ten stars
on I am and what I felt like was a
very weird marketing effort. And I know I was definitely
going to the IMDb page for Knock Knock as I
was trying to correct the credits as there were no

(09:13):
mentions of it being a remake or based on a
previous script. Though if you want to find out more
about that, I would ask that people listen to our
two Death Game episodes and find out more about the
writers and the antecedents for Death Game as well. Anyway,
there was another marketing plan going on for Green Inferno
that was a fakepetition on change dot org. Anybody remember

(09:37):
that that was trying to ban the film, and Stewart
took to the air along with journalist Dave Pace to
debunk the petition and take the piss out of the
already pissed off people who were outraged by the petition,
not knowing of its spurious origin. You can read a
lot about that over on I Think Bleeding Cool. I'll

(10:00):
definitely have a link.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
In the show notes.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
So while I was listening to the two parter that
Stuart put out of Senophobia Radio called jungle Gate, and
I also thought there was going to be more to it.
I also was waiting for a third part. Anyway, while
I was listening to it, I just got this bug
to make it a little bit better than what Stuart

(10:26):
had put out. Those breaks that I was talking about before,
he would put in long, long breaks in there, just
longer and longer. And I can't remember if it was
Howard Zenn or Marsha McCluin, just were talking forever and regardless.
When I listened to that two parter, I listened to

(10:48):
it a second time in audacity and just started chopping.
I made the two episodes into one, and I think
I made the two episodes into one stronger episode. I
don't know what came over me, but I shared that
with Stuart, and he rightly bit my head off. He
didn't like what I had done at all. Though I

(11:10):
still stand by my cut. I still think it's better
than what ended up coming out. Going back to the
idea of Stuart's digital footprint as a worker, there are
fifty episodes of the room Board Radio podcast from twenty
eleven to twenty twelve listed on Apple Podcasts, but none
of the files seemed to be there. His Cinephobia episodes, meanwhile,

(11:34):
are also in really short supply. I did my best
to try and even find out how many episodes he did.
I think it was around thirty five, but this was
over a long period of time, maybe as long as
from twenty seven to twenty twenty five, but I don't
think so. I don't think he was doing podcasts for

(11:55):
the last few years, and I'll tell you why in
a few minutes here. Yeah, it's very clear, and just
a handful of those survived once he got into the
Velvet Buzzsaw series that he did. I think those were
the last five podcasts that he did. I thought it
was about the Jake Jillenhall movie, and I was just like,

(12:15):
why are you dedicating five episodes to this Netflix film,
but it ended up being something else entirely. Yeah, but regardless,
if people have collected those episodes or just have downloaded
individual episodes that they can send, please just send them
along to me. I want to start an archive. I'm

(12:37):
through all of the ones that I could find in
a drop box. I'll share that link as well. It's
just I'm afraid that they're going to disappear too. All
the removal of episodes and recordings and things never released.
Sometimes it felt like he was being sabotaged by room Moorg,
but then other times it felt like self sabotage too.

(12:58):
Stude had a real parent streak and it really came
out in spades after the election of Donald Trump, but
really moreover after the start of the COVID pandemic back
in twenty twenty. Though he wouldn't call it COVID, he
would say that COVID is the disease. It's actually the
syrus blah blah blah blah blah pandemic. He felt that

(13:21):
was very important to tell me. We talked a few
times after the pandemic started. I was still friends with
him on Facebook up until at least December of twenty
twenty two. I really had to put all of his
posts on ignore, and yeah, it was kind of sad
because I could just see him getting more and more unhinged.

(13:43):
I'm sure we all have friends that or acquaintances at
least that this has happened to. It's very, very sad
for me.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
You know.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
The worst part is Stuart always had to be right
about everything that he thought, and that everyone was entire
to his opinion. I don't know where he fell off
or even if he would identify as an anti vaxer.
His Twitter feed, though, is filled with things like calling

(14:14):
Anthony Fauci a modern Mangola, throwing around terms like Maderna Gate.
He did like the Gate stuff when it came to Scandal's.

Speaker 5 (14:24):
Right wing media and influencers had been blaming the scale
of wildfire destruction in Los Angeles on diversity, equity and
inclusion efforts.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Suffice to say, I just kind of had to cut
him out of my life, but I doubt he really
even noticed or cared. Frankly, the last time I heard
from Stuart was December twenty twenty two, when he told
me this quote. I live in Niagara, I work in
medical cannabis and manage the building where I live twelve units.

(14:55):
I also produced the movie Psycho Gorman, which requires constant attention.
And I know I've threatened this before, but I am
resurrecting my old podcast, going through some of this stuff
as part of the process. But this time it's not
going to be nice and cuddly like it was before.
This time it will be weaponized. And then he concluded
our conversation with this, I'm retiring at seventy seven and

(15:19):
will completely remove myself from all public platforms. I will
die at eighty three. That's the plan. Well, unfortunately the
plan didn't work out. Stuart passed away at fifty seven
years old on November twenty third, twenty twenty five. I
don't know how he passed, but I hope it was peaceful.

(15:40):
It was only after hearing that he went that I
learned that Stuart Andrews isn't actually his real name. Stuart
went under that Noaum de guerre, as well as having
another Facebook profile under the name Daniel Stuart Morton, but
the listing for his cremation has him as Andrew Stuart Morton.
Whatever his name, he made quite an impact on my

(16:03):
life and I appreciate all he did for me as
well as the horror community. He sure did love to
stir up shit, and I so like that about him.
He is definitely going to be missed, so as a
tribute of sorts and something that would make him just
incredibly pissed off as well. I'm actually going to share
that episode that I put together of his two part

(16:26):
jungle Gate so that people can hear him at his best.
I would say, please enjoy, but instead I'll take a
page out of his book and say, slushy well, Little
Drew Geese, slushy well.

Speaker 6 (16:39):
The following feature is one of the most violent films
ever made. There are at least two dozen scenes of
barbaric torture and sadistic cruelty graphically shown.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
If the presentation of disgusting.

Speaker 6 (16:51):
And impulsive subject matter upsets you, please do not view
this film.

Speaker 7 (17:01):
Beautiful Dream.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Peru is dangerous. We can't just go invade a country
because they're doing something that we think is immoral.

Speaker 8 (17:13):
I know, I just think I should be doing something
about the rainforest star.

Speaker 7 (17:19):
Jobs.

Speaker 9 (17:21):
It's time to make a difference.

Speaker 10 (17:27):
So why, yeah, why are they doing this?

Speaker 2 (18:12):
What are they going to do to us?

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Nice?

Speaker 2 (18:20):
To get out of here. You know what this is,
you know what they're doing to us.

Speaker 9 (18:55):
This is Stuart Feedback Andrews and you're listening to Sinophobia Radio.
I'm joined via Skype by ex horror journalist Dave Pace
from the now retired genre media focus blog La Politique Psychotronique,
and we're here with a special report on a developing
situation in the horror world that will forever be known

(19:16):
as Jungle Gates. So a couple of disclaimers before we begin.
First of all, neither of us have seen the film
The Green Inferno, so we're not talking about the film specifically.
The content of the film The Green Inferno, while not irrelevant,
is secondary to what we're talking about here. We're talking

(19:37):
about the marketing behind the film, the sort of characters
the film is being marketed to, and the disturbing undercurrents
within the cultural shitegeist that are being kicked up and
amplified by the publicity campaign. And secondly, yes, I realized
that talking about the film probably speaks to the effectiveness

(19:59):
of marketing campaign if the only point of it is
to get people talking. But that doesn't bother me because
I'm not advocating for any sort of boycott of the film.
I don't care if people see the film. In fact,
i'd rather them see it and bring to it some
of the critical perspectives that we're going to hopefully provide today.

Speaker 11 (20:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Absolutely, I mean, you know, obviously we're not for banning
this film. You know, obviously we're not getting behind that.

Speaker 9 (20:27):
That's ridiculous, right, And any petition that's out there trying
to ban the film, we don't support that either, not
at all. So don't worry, folks. We're not social justice warriors, right,
whatever that is.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
I'm a local justice barbarian.

Speaker 9 (20:43):
So first, before we go, I want to get your
assessment of Eli Roth as a filmmaker. How do you
rate him as a director.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
I think he's a guy with a really great horror
film in him. I just don't think he's made it yet,
and he may not, right, but I think I think
it's possible he's enough of an efficionado of the genre
to be able to make something great. I think I
think he understands and respects it enough to know how

(21:11):
to make something great. It's just a question of I
don't think he's actually done that yet. He hasn't made
anything that has changed everything that came after.

Speaker 9 (21:21):
And what do you think of the masterpiece? If only
in his own mind that hostile was.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Ah, you know, hostile. It's funny because I like the
premise of Hostile a lot in a way, like I
like the idea that you have these you know, these guys,
these like douchebag guys who are going to go and
sort of exploit this, you know, Eastern European country for
their own pleasures and you know, to kind of go
there for some some illicit fun and then sort of

(21:49):
get roped into even more illicit fun than they can
they could even imagine being exploited themselves. I think there's
an interesting political message there. I just don't think it
was well particularly well executed. It didn't hit the nerves
the way it should have. I think it was weak
at times. I think it was like too just too
out front with the torture porn stuff, not enough for

(22:10):
sort of ratcheting up that tension and making it scary,
not just drills through the knee cats and you know
all that business.

Speaker 12 (22:18):
Right.

Speaker 13 (22:18):
I was turning down another movie and I said, Quentin,
you know, I don't know if it wasn't a mistake
to turn down the studio film because I have this
other idea that I really kind of want to do,
and I told the idea for Hostile, and he's like, Eli,
that is the best idea I've heard for horror movie.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
You've got to do that.

Speaker 9 (22:33):
The weird thing for me with him is that each
one of the films that he's made so far I
felt was better than the previous one. First of all,
I hated Cavin Fever. I walked out of Hostile, largely
because I'm a fairly temperamental film viewer and a couple
of things will annoy me and that will be enough
to just sort of ruin the whole film for me.

(22:55):
It's a critical failing, but I recognize it. So I
went back eventually and did give it its stay in court.
And ironically, the stuff that I liked most about Hostele
was the stuff I missed, namely how it almost switches
genres and becomes like a hitchcock man wrongly accused suspense
film at the end of something. Hostile, too, I thought

(23:18):
was quite good. I enjoyed it a lot, and I
think one of the great things that it benefited from.
First of all, it was conceptually more interesting and had
a much better, more likable I guess cast in general.
And also Tarantino worked with him much more closely on
the development of the script, and you can really get

(23:39):
a good sense of that if you listen to the
commentary tract they both did on the DVD. Tarantino really
encouraged him to dive into the minutia of the world
that he was presenting, so he really guided him. So
when you're basically working with one of the greatest cinematic
dramatists of our generation, you would hope you'd benefit from that,

(24:03):
and Eli definitely did.

Speaker 5 (24:06):
I had no idea the appetite was this big for
a film like this. I had no idea that this
many people would respond to my ideas and to my
political commentary, to my disgust with you know, the Bush
administration and shocking images coming back from Iraq and all
these fears that I have that you know, everybody else
was feeling.

Speaker 14 (24:22):
It.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
It was like it was in the climate and it
became part.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
Of the culture, and I thought, you know what, I
really want to explore this further, and if I'm going
to do it, I have to do it right now.
I can't take any time off, and I thought, Okay,
instead of writing Hostile Too, I want it to be
part two.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
There's Kill Bill Volume one and Kill Bill Volume two.

Speaker 5 (24:38):
And I looked at Saw Too and Devil's Rejects, which
I thought were really superb horror sequels that really took
it to the next level, and I kept thinking about
the next level and the next level of the Factory
and the next level of depravity and human beings.

Speaker 9 (24:49):
Following Hostle two, he did the Thanksgiving trailer for grind House,
which is.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Fantastic, amazing, amazing, so good.

Speaker 9 (24:56):
And then my favorite thing that he did was that
Little Black and White Nation's Pride segment the film within
a film in Inglorious Bastards, which Eli shot and directed.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, he really nailed the reconstall. I kind of look
with that.

Speaker 9 (25:12):
Yeah, interesting, nicely pieced together action sequence, and I thought
that was one of his most technically accomplished bits, even
though it's embedded within another film. And I thought Eli
was actually quite good in the film.

Speaker 14 (25:25):
Antonio, Margaret.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
Cord It, Margaret Progressed, Margarii, Margheriti. Yeah, yeah, well, and
I mean again, how complimentary too. I mean to have
you know, Tarantino saying, hey, to direct the film. Within
the film, I want you to do that. I mean,

(25:50):
obviously he sees a lot of promise in the guy.
You know, he sees somebody who has a lot of potential.

Speaker 9 (25:55):
Or maybe he had a midlife crisis, man crush on him.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Who knows, who knows, Maybe he's got really nice feed Hi.
Hi'm Eli Roth, and I'm Gwinn Garentina. Welcome to our
MySpace artists on artist artist on. Wait a minute, yeah,
the artist talking with artist artist.

Speaker 9 (26:18):
There you go. So let's talk about our assessment of
Eli the person. Now, neither of us know him personally,
so we can only surmise what his behavior is like
from the scant encounters we've had with him. I've actually,
I don't know if I told you this, I've interviewed
him a couple of times. That's not a personal encounter,
as a phony, but you form impressions from that. And

(26:40):
also I did see him introduce the screening of Inglorious Bastards,
so that's my only direct experience with him, and they
made an impression. But for the most part, you pick
up little bits and pieces of things that he said publicly,
and you form an impression of them. I'll say that
the good he's hard waking, energetic, enthusiastic. He's a great

(27:04):
champion of the horror genre, as you've already pointed out. Absolutely,
and he's a good looking man and girls seem to
like him.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
They definitely do, and I'm sure lots of boys and
men like him as well.

Speaker 9 (27:15):
The bad is incredibly conceited, brutally self congratulatory, seemingly narcissistic.
His ambition obviously outweighs his talents, and like many narcissists,
he doesn't seem to take criticism well. His politics are
hilariously all over the map, as we're going to talk about.

(27:38):
And finally, he's a good looking man and girls seems
to like him.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, fucking.

Speaker 12 (27:44):
At all.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
Fucking guy.

Speaker 9 (27:46):
So about the arrogance of Eli, there's a few things
that I think people started to notice when Hostile became
a big smash hit. First of all, the endless, relentless
Quentin Tarantin name dropping. Even in the interview I did
with him, he was telling me how much Quentin thinks
he's fantastic, loves his ideas, and just his propensity towards

(28:12):
talking about himself. To that degree. Just really, especially if
you're from Liverpool, you're not supposed to do that. That's
where I'm from. People will rip you to pieces for
talking about yourself like that in the most cruel vicious
ways imaginable. So I know that this is a more
acceptable thing in North America, especially in like Toronto. People

(28:35):
do it hilariously, and you know, but if you do
come from a background culturally where that's frowned upon, it
becomes quite aggravating. And Eli has absolutely no sense of
humility about talking and pontificating on what he perceives to
be his great success. I find it nauseating and it's

(28:57):
hard for me not to ridicule it.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
To have it all hit me at like thirty.

Speaker 5 (29:01):
Then you come back to la and suddenly like everyone
in town wants to meet you, and you're like the
hot thing, You're the big.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Sale, and the festival. It's just like it was crazy.
It was a fun fucking time.

Speaker 14 (29:12):
You know.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
There's a real fine line, I think, and I guess
maybe it's not so fine, but there's definitely a line
between that sort of obnoxious, you know, self congratulatory thing
and just enjoying your own success and being enthusiastic about
what you're doing and who you are, and that's you know,
I'm I gotta be straight up. That's not an easy

(29:34):
one to walk, you know, at any juncture, that's not
an easy line to walk. So I don't know, I
kind of give him a little bit of a pass there,
not much, but a little bit. You know, there's a
there's an acceptable level of what he's doing, and then
there's the sort of way over the top that he
seems to kind of keep shooting over.

Speaker 9 (29:54):
But okay, I'll go along with that. I think it
is an acceptable sort of area, vague area, because the
flip side of that is being too meek and full
of self doubt and too humble. You're simply going to
get eaten alive. But you do have to have a
certain amount of arrogance and a certain amount of cocksuredness swell,

(30:15):
and another thing about is arrogance. And it was a
personal encounter in a sense I was there at a
screening and it really did leave a strong impression on me,
and over time it really kind of undermined how I
felt about Eli. The Inglorious Bastard's premiered in Toronto, its
first audience was in Toronto. Tarantino and Eli came here

(30:38):
to show the film to an absolutely giddy audience who
obviously loved the movie. Tarantino left twenty minutes in. He
had to jump on a plane and go to New
York for a press day the following day, and Eli
stuck around to do the Q and A and Richard Krause.
People in Toronto know Richard Krause. He's the go to guy.

(30:59):
Whenever you need anyone, He'll show up at the opening
of an envelope.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Essentially, Yeah, he's everywhere.

Speaker 9 (31:05):
He's kind of like a poor man's Mark Him mode.
He's got like the rockabilly look going, and he's sort
of Canada's answer to Mark M Mode. Anyway, he was
there introducing Eli. He gets up and he gives them
quite a nice introduction. He's halfway through. It're telling you
who Eli is, what his history is, and Eli comes

(31:25):
running out from the wings, waves him down, waves him
to shut up, dismissing him like, oh, nobody needs to
hear any of that, grabs the microphone from him and
proceeds to take over the Q and A. And poor
Richard Krause is just standing there looking completely shell shocked.
It's a humbling, humiliate, potentially humiliating experience, and Eli definitely

(31:49):
made sure it was for Richard Krause.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
I mean, it's it's humiliating, Like you say already. You know,
it's difficult to get up there and in front of
an audience and sort of you know, houstless Q and
have to walk that balancing act between making this person
look good and also putting on you know, making sure
that the audience is getting a good experience. Right, you
kind of feel responsible for that, and for somebody to

(32:14):
come and to kind of steamroll you in that fashion
is I mean, that'd be awful. It'd be really humiliating,
and I've seen it happen to other people. It's pretty bad.
You know, it's everybody just kind of it's awkward for
the audience and the poorschmuck on the stage.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
You know, you people are the worst audience I've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
You're the worst comedian we've ever seen.

Speaker 15 (32:33):
Oh great, well, just sit here silently for the next
ninety minutes, fine with us.

Speaker 9 (32:39):
So let's talk about Eli's inability to take criticism. I
think over the years we've hid many examples of him
responding to criticism in a very defensive, sometimes extremely angry way.
There's one particular incident somebody sent me the text of this.
I knew about it, but I'd never read his response

(33:02):
in Fangoria. And I think what happened is people sent
in letters about hostile and Eli responded, and they did
it within the pages of Fangoria. And he was really
focused on despite how much praise he was getting, it
was really burning him the one critical perspective given to him,
Like he just couldn't get past it. And this is

(33:23):
almost to me like a sign of narcissism, because narcissists
can't handle criticism. You could have like a nine hundred
and ninety nine people telling you you're fantastic. One person
says something negative and that's what they focus on.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
It's sad, isn't it. You know, like they just can't
enjoy you know, they've got to focus in on that
totally negative trait, you know, that one voice in the wilderness.
You know, it's just like, man, just enjoy it.

Speaker 9 (33:53):
He says. Letters like this one reflect a very disturbing
trend happening in cinema today, political correctness. This person is
clearly out of touch with how young people in America speak.
If you go to any high school or college campus,
kids use the word gay to describe something they think
is stupid or idiotic. I am trying to write characters

(34:17):
who are real and speak the way young American people
actually talk to each other. Now, this next phrase, I
just love this next phrase. When someone is acting like
a pussy, they call that person a fag.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
Let's get a two for insult there, right, So let's
make sure they understand when somebody's acting like a pussy,
like you know what acting like a pussy is like, right,
I mean that's like, that's like acting like a woman.

Speaker 15 (34:46):
Right.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
But we're just calling them fags, so you know, I
don't see what the big deal is. I mean, everybody
knows that fag means pussy now, right, So I mean
we're just we're just in something women, We're not something
gay people who cares get over it.

Speaker 16 (35:00):
Fuck you.

Speaker 9 (35:01):
I don't know why you guys are waiting.

Speaker 5 (35:02):
It's a fucking bagdassinder follow off, fucking fucked You need
one of.

Speaker 9 (35:06):
These two games, brups. Sorry, so I'll just read the
last party. He says, if you want safe movies, that
are politically correct. Why are you reading this magazine? Why
not spend your time fighting politicians who try to outlaw
homosexuality instead of filmmakers who are reflecting the world they

(35:27):
see around them. However, Hostile clearly stayed something in this
reader and sparked a discussion, which, for a filmmaker is
all you can ask for. So again we have I
think an example of Eli's inconsistency. He's almost celebrating the
fact that this topic is coming up and it allows

(35:50):
for a discussion, but he begins the piece by railing
against that it's coming up.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
He doesn't want to have the discussion, right. It's like,
I'm so glad that people are having discussion about this.
I sure don't want to participate in any discussions about
this though, and I'm really upset that people want to
have this discussion. But it's good that they're having a discussion.
I don't think it's very confusing. It's very like and
I understand what he's saying about, like I'm reflecting the

(36:17):
times and people say gay and bag and they don't
really mean homophobic things with them. But I mean, what
this really underlies to me is that Eli doesn't understand
that that you don't get to tell the victims of
abusive language what your abusive language was supposed to mean, right, Like,
you don't get to say, well, hang on a minute.

(36:39):
You know, I understand that that hurts you as a
gay person, but I didn't mean it that way. So
you shouldn't be offended that sense that you get to
tell people whether they're offended or not. It's nonsense. You know,
people can be offended. You know, people are allowed to
not like people using those terms. You know, people are
allowed to criticize you for choosing to use these terms.

(37:00):
That's something you need to learn to accept if you're
going to put those terms in your film, Right, is
that people are going to come after you for that.

Speaker 9 (37:06):
Louis c. K has a fantastic deconstruction of the word
fag and where it comes from.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yeah, does it bother you when he says the word faggot?

Speaker 2 (37:15):
No, it bothers me when you say it because you
mean it.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah, it really is like as a comedian and a
gay guy, you're the only gay comic I know. Do
you think I shouldn't be using that word on stage?

Speaker 17 (37:25):
I think you should use whatever words you want and
when you use it on stage, I can see it's
funny and I don't care.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
But are you interested to know what it might mean
to gay men?

Speaker 11 (37:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (37:35):
I am interested.

Speaker 17 (37:37):
Well, the word fagot really means a bundle of sticks
used for kindling and a fire. Now, in the Middle Ages,
when they used to burn people they thought were witches,
they used to burn homosexuals too, and they used to
burn the witches at a steak. But they thought the
homosexuals were too low and disgusting to be given a
stake to be burned on, so they used to just

(37:57):
throw them in with the kindling, but the other fagots.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
So that's how you get flaming faggot.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
So what you're saying is gay people are a good
alternative fuel source.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Should they get the term diesel dyke?

Speaker 3 (38:11):
I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 17 (38:12):
You might want to know that every gay man in
America has probably had that word shouted at them when
they're being beaten up, sometimes many times, sometimes by a
lot of people all at once. So when you say it,
it kind of brings that all back up. But you know,

(38:33):
by all means, use it get your laughs, but you know,
I you know what it means. Okay, thanks fagging. We'll
keep that in mind.

Speaker 9 (38:47):
But I feel like if somebody's acting like a fag,
I call them a retoug.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
Yeah, what is it?

Speaker 18 (38:56):
Right?

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Oh you're pussy? Oh? That because that's better, right, you know,
not because I want to deny anybody the right. If
you want to say fag or gay or pussy or
like whatever horrible word you want to use, that's on you.
But that also means that people get to like make
judgments about you because you use those terms. That also
means that people get to like criticize you for using

(39:20):
those terms, and people are going to get their feelings hurt.
And if you're not looking to hurt those people's feelings, geez,
you know, maybe it's incumbent upon you not to use
those terms anymore. It's all I'm saying, he says.

Speaker 9 (39:33):
In another interview, he says it's funny that people always
assume that if there's a frat guy, it's based on me.
But generally the one closest to me in hostile is
the shy wan who's never done anything wrong, but it's
forced into a horrible situation. So in his mind, he's
not the bombastic frat boy that calls people fags because

(39:57):
they're acting like pussies, even though that's what he said
he does. He's the guy who's the shy, little quiet one.
And I think you really get a good sense of
that aspect of Eli in his cameo Impurane.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, if there's any like, he's clearly
the shy, nice guy in that. I mean you see
that really come out in him. He's clearly channeling something there,
you know.

Speaker 9 (40:23):
And he's been careful to cultivate that image, like his
cameo in death Proof too, Yeah, where he.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Plays again another very shy, very reserved, nerdy person respector
of women, you know, a respector of you know, all
things academic and all things about being just a shy,
nerdy art school guy. That's definitely when I think of that,
I think Eui row.

Speaker 9 (40:50):
I would imagine a lot of actresses would like to
get to know you.

Speaker 19 (40:53):
This would be a very good score for them to
have an Eli Roth who's got his name above the title.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Right, That's that's correct.

Speaker 13 (40:59):
So what do you do?

Speaker 9 (41:00):
How are you playing this? So you have do you
have one girlfriend?

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Do you have many girlfriends?

Speaker 20 (41:03):
Well?

Speaker 5 (41:03):
You kind of you know, I go away to Prague
and make the movies and Prague, you know, there's like
usually I made a nice check girl, and I was
actually pretty well behaved.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
On Hostile one.

Speaker 5 (41:10):
It was kind of a frat party.

Speaker 9 (41:12):
We just went berserk.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
It was like extras.

Speaker 9 (41:14):
Oh no, it was like extras, like crazy just girls
that we met at me.

Speaker 5 (41:17):
Every night we were going out in Prague and getting
phone numbers and going going insane and literally we'd be
shooting on set with the extras getting phone numbers and
it was nuts.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Nude casting.

Speaker 5 (41:28):
No, it's literally like that was by the way. That
became the very problem was I kept getting like I
was up all night. I kept getting strep throat, and
like we'd have a two day break and I'd go
out with three girls in a weekend and I and
then the movie like I literally I remember I was
on set and I started falling asleep and they're like, Eli,
what's the next setup? And I woke up and I
was like, oh my god, this is actually affecting the film.
And I was like I gotta be a monk and

(41:48):
a completely I completely stopped cold turkey.

Speaker 9 (41:51):
So I find him to be a slippery fish, you know,
And I think what was seeing lately from him is
his politics just tend to twist in the wind or
blow in whatever direction the wind's going in the wake
of hostile And I talked to Hannah Eurotica, the editor
of Axe Wound, and I guess Eli was a big

(42:12):
supporter of that fanzine, this feminist horror fanzine, and she
talked about, you know, good for him and good for him. Well,
she says things like Eli is really progressive feminist views,
you know, and he's a real champion of feminism. And
of course feminists love using the phrase pussy as a
derogatory term against that against anybody exhibiting feminine characteristics. But

(42:35):
I'll read something that Eli said. I'll read something that
Eli said that really epitomizes his staunch advocacy of feminist values.
I think this section was from an arrow in the
head article, but I'm.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Not entirely sure that sounds right.

Speaker 9 (42:53):
He says, I didn't hate wrong tain. I hated the
fact that they fucking called it seventies. I hated the
fact that they said, look, how seventies we are, and
then they got a girl with fake tits. Now that's
not seventies, And they didn't even have her take her
fucking clothes off. People fucking with their clothes on in

(43:16):
an rated movie is nineteen ninety seven, not the seventies.
When you got three fucking hillbillies. Ti likes the word fucking.
It's really long up on this team. When you got
three fucking hillbillies who were so inbred that they fuck
each other. The middle guy is like, am I going
to fuck Gollum? Or am I going to fuck the

(43:38):
big guy? And then they have Eliza Doucecup on a
bed and they don't even rip her fucking clothes off.
You are fucking kidding me. That is so not fucking seventies.
They're crazies. They're fucking naked every five minutes, my bloody Valentine.
They're fucking naked every five minutes. Crazy hillbillies get a

(44:01):
hot gale, they fucking fuck her. That's what they do,
especially if they fuck each other. So why do you
think he's getting so angry?

Speaker 3 (44:11):
I don't know, this is weird, Like to me, this
is one of those things that exposes some like weird,
deep seated stuff with this guy. You know, like he's
really mad about this and really like.

Speaker 21 (44:27):
Like noted feminist, not in feminist Steli Rod, the guy
with really progressive values, is really really mad that more
women aren't getting naked, and that that's really you know,
that's what's the point.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Why do you have Eliza Dushku unless you get her naked?
What's the point of her as an actress except to
be naked to show her tits off?

Speaker 15 (44:51):
Right?

Speaker 9 (44:52):
I mean, fuck, what a waste?

Speaker 3 (44:53):
Why did you waste anybody's time coming out to see
this movie when when that's what they want, that's what
they're there for. You know, this is this is a
very progressive feminist perspective from mister E. Lrott here.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
I'm very impressed now.

Speaker 9 (45:07):
I understand his frustration with these films that pretend to
pay homage to earlier genres and they don't have the
naive or the guts to go as far as these
other genres did.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
He's not wrong. He's just really hung up on on
the like sexualized aspects of it all. He's really hung
up unlike the I want my tits and I want
this like he's I don't know, he's not. He's not
wrong in the sense that there's definitely a lot of
pretenders who are trying to capture that vibe and failing.

(45:44):
But I don't think it's I don't think it's the
lack of tits that's hurting him.

Speaker 9 (45:49):
He redeems his feminist perspective with the concluding remark. He says,
another thing that pisses me off is that when I
go see a Stan Winston movie, I don't want to
c CGI. I want fucking makeup. Don't tell me at
seventies when you have fucking CGI, it's fucking insulting to me.
And don't set up a movie with no fucking twists.

(46:12):
I mean, come on, at least give me some twists
or some tits or something. You guys gotta do better
than that. I hate the fact that it was done
by smart people that I know could do better. They
fucking missed the mark. They pussied out with that movie.
They pussied out by showing CGI go and by hiring

(46:34):
TV actors that won't show their fucking tits in a
sex scene.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
So again you're seeing what's important to noted feminist eliron right,
like this is what's really important. But capturing that sementies
feel it's tits?

Speaker 9 (46:50):
What about the CGI and Green and Finno. I haven't
seen the movie, but this is one of the big
complaints people had with it. It's full of CG apparently.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
Well, I mean, like, this is it right, here's this
guy going back and forth. You know, Oh, he's really progressive.
They pussied out. I want tits, you know, and all
these these these sober sensitive SJWs. I can't believe there's
CGI in these movies. What a bunch of fucking bullshit,

(47:21):
you know, Like it's it's these bizarre positions he's holding right.

Speaker 9 (47:25):
Like are they tits in the Green and Fair O?
Because if there aren't, I'm not going so I.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Will walk out.

Speaker 9 (47:31):
I will be so fucking fucking fucking fucking pissed if
there's no fucking tits in the fucking movie.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
I want green tits.

Speaker 9 (47:40):
I want CGI tits for fuck's sakes.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Yeah, I want real prosthetic tits. I want like the
total recall triple tits.

Speaker 9 (47:48):
I got to read the concluding remark because it's just
too good, he says. And that's the difference between Dushkup
and Katie Holmes. Katie Holmes gave us the boobs. You
know what, if this isn't real like, if this isn't
a real quote, somebody sent me this and it was
a link, and I'm accepting at a face value that

(48:11):
it really is an Eli quote. Maybe it's a parody
of Eli. I don't know, but let's assume, you know,
if I'm wrong and I've been tricked, because a lot
of trickery is going on, by the way, So if
I've fallen prey to a trick and it's a parody
of Eli, I do have sincerely apologize ELI fans. Yeah,

(48:32):
and I will gladly be corrected on this issue. But
he says, when we saw the gift and she was
standing there without her shit off, my fucking jaw was
on the ground. And you know what, anytime that girl
is in an R rated movie, I'll pay fucking money
just to see it, because I know that Katie Holmes

(48:54):
is willing to do what is required of the role.
She's not like, look at me, I'm no good. She'll
do what it takes. If there's a sex scene required,
she'll fucking do it. She's got my nine books.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
These are the.

Speaker 9 (49:11):
Fucking TV actresses that won't do nudity and sex scenes.
I'll watch them on TV for free. So there, I'm
not paying for it.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
If you're an actress in Hollywood, Eli Roth wants you
to know that it's your tits that he will pay for.
And if you're not willing to go there, you can
fuck off back to TV.

Speaker 9 (49:35):
I'm surprised he doesn't have like a rant on Facebook
on hit like if you want to put an end
to these actresses who won't show their tits, but that
would be slack divism, so we wouldn't do that because
he's against slacked.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
But he's not one of these frat boys.

Speaker 9 (49:51):
No, No, he's a sensitive He's a shy sensitive type.
It comes across this has to be a joke. This
has to be a joke.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
Yeah, can we sorry, can we get the correction?

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Can we get somebody there?

Speaker 14 (50:05):
Like?

Speaker 9 (50:05):
It has to be a joke, you know. And I'm
sorry that I took at a face value because it's
obviously a joke. But let's move on talking about his
flip flopping. Do you remember And this was one of
the occasions that he was on Rumor Radio and it
was quite opportunistic because they were interviewing him for the magazine.
I showed up and they said, oh, we're talking to Eli,

(50:25):
and he'd just done this rant on Fox News that
I loved, not so much the content, but just the
fact that he was defending the horror genre and criticizing
Bush and Cheney and the war in Iraq and everything,
and he was making a point that horror films reflect
important aspects of the cultural zeitgeist. Even though some of

(50:46):
the details in that speech I thought were a bit overgeneralized,
the fact that he was on Fox News defending the
horror genre and being at that time seemingly a progressive liberal,
I thought was interesting. So I got him on the
phone and we talked about it. Of course, let's keep
in mind this was two thousand and seven. This wasn't
like when Michael Moore criticized the Iraq invasion at the

(51:08):
Academy Awards and took a lot of flak. It was
really unpopular to speak out against that war. But by
the end of Bush Team two it was almost the opposite.
It was unpopular not to speak out against it. So Eli,
in a sense, wasn't doing anything when you look back,
wasn't doing anything that provocative by showing up and giving

(51:29):
Fox News the gears, because that was really the that
was trendy.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
And this is the way the wind was blowing.

Speaker 9 (51:35):
Yeah, it was the way the wind was blowing. For sure.

Speaker 19 (51:38):
You're like, good to have you, great to be here, Neil,
What do you think's going on? You would think that
in the environment we have the fear of terror and
everything else. The last thing we'd wanted to be in
theaters is terrorized.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Yep, we are.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Well.

Speaker 5 (51:51):
The truth of the matter is in times of terror,
people want to People want to be terrified, but in
a safe environment. Because with all the things that are
going on in the world, certainly with the war in
the Rack and the horrible, horrible aftermath of Hurricane Katrino,
where our government did nothing to help anybody, you want
to scream, and there really is no place in society
where you can go and just scream at the top
of your lungs and get it out of your system.

(52:12):
And horror movies really provide that safe environment to do that,
all right.

Speaker 19 (52:15):
But with some of the horror movies though, is it
just the fact that editing's changed, or the fact we've
always liked horror movies. They've always done very well.

Speaker 5 (52:22):
Right, Yeah, horror movies, I mean it goes in cycles.
You know, in the seventies with Vietnam, all of a
sudden you had movies like Last House on the Left
and The Texas Chainsaw Masker and Don and the Dead.
And then if you notice, you know, kind of in
the Clinton administration, when things were calm, there weren't that
many horror movies. But now, you know, thanks to George
Bush and Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, there's a whole
new wave of horror movies that are back.

Speaker 9 (52:44):
So I see him almost as a horrizeic.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
All right.

Speaker 9 (52:49):
Put him in a room full of feminists. He starts
talking about the male gaze. Stick him in a room
full of frat boys. He's demanding Elijah Douschcou's tits. Stick
him in a room full of dentists. He's talking about
killing lions.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
He's a social chameleon. He blends in wherever he goes.

Speaker 9 (53:10):
Stick him in a room full of indigenous activists. I
imagine he'll start railing against the oil companies.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
Oh, this damn oil company.

Speaker 9 (53:18):
He wouldn't go that far.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
No, he doesn't take that kind of SJW. Crap, does he.

Speaker 9 (53:24):
So this brings us now to the Green Inferno, which
premiered at the Toronto Film Festival in twenty thirteen. Now,
after Hostele Too, Eli's directing career sort of took a
backseat to his acting career and his producing career, and
he's been very prolific and very busy and involved in
all sorts of stuff. The Last Exorcism, after Shock, Hemlock Grove,

(53:49):
and of course what was the kung fu one from
the Wu Tang Klang guy, the Man with the Iron Fists.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Man with the Golden Golden fists.

Speaker 9 (53:57):
Something like that. He went off to China and he
did a massive production over in China. So he's been
very busy. Even though he hasn't been directed in movies lately,
he's been very busy in the film business. Absolutely, nobody
will ever accuse him of not being a hard working filmmaker,
not at all. Of course. The Green infer and O

(54:20):
is a reference to the film within a film in
Cannibal Holocaust and the nickname for the jungle. Interestingly, the
term itself carries with it a certain kind of Christian
repressive view of nature, the Green Infano. But it's a
cool title. It's a great needs, it's a great title
if you're going to resurrect the cannibal movie. I couldn't
think of a better title than The Green Inferno.

Speaker 22 (54:43):
Today, we are already on the threshold of conquering our galaxy,
and in a not too distant tomorrow, we'll be considering
the conquest of the universe. And yet Man seems to
ignore the fact that on this very planet there are
still people living in the Stone Age and practicing cannibalism,
primitive tribes, isolated, ruthless and hostile environment where the prevailing
law is the survival of the fitness. And this jungle,

(55:06):
which its inhabitants referred to as the Green Inferno, is
only a few hours flying time from New York City.

Speaker 9 (55:12):
And of course Eli is an outspoken advocate of this
dubious subgenre. I'm not particularly a fan of it, although
I do find Cannibal Holocaust an incredibly fascinating film that
I've watched many times and I think it does something
incredibly unique. But he loves the genre, so he's decided

(55:33):
to revive it in twenty thirteen. So the plot as
I know it, and this is at the point where
I sort of tuned out once I heared what the
film was about or what his target was I just decided, oh,
you know what, I don't need to listen to any
more bullshit for Eli rather about politics or any of
his political critiques. But it is apparently, you know, let's

(55:56):
face it, you're going to revive the Cannibal movie in
two thousand and three eighteen, Well, you have a few
challenges and a few great opportunities as well for political satire.
The Amazon is one of the most important places on
Earth as far as our biodiversity and the biodiversity of
the planet, and the health of the planet's ecosystem and atmosphere.
The Amazon has been referred to as the lungs of

(56:18):
the planet. More oxygen is released from the Amazon than
anywhere else, and obviously, with greenhouse gases piling up, the
more oxygen we have, the more we balance out the
greenhouse gases. So by diminishing the Amazon, we're potentially on
the verge of a mass extinction. So it's of incredible

(56:39):
critical importance what's going on in the Amazon. So are
you going to do an Amazon movie? Tons of stuff
to go after. Politically, you can go after the exploitation,
how oil companies, how deforestation works, how the media industry
is in there, wiping shit out to grow grain for cattle.
There's so many stuff, corrupt local gold, government's repression of

(57:01):
indigenous tribes, all these things come into.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
Phony drug wars, all that kind of stuff, right like,
it all ties in there.

Speaker 9 (57:11):
One of the biggest challenges of resurrecting the cannibal subgenre
are the cannibals because basically that plays into this time
on a tradition of demonizing a local population to drum
up support for imperial colonial conquest, right, which is obviously
affecting that region. So there's ways to do it. And

(57:31):
I'm not opposed to the idea of having a cannibal movie,
but there's ways to address it. And I'm not sure
if Eli did address it. I haven't seen the film,
but from what he's saying, given that entire range of possibilities,
his focus, and this is based on how he was
talking about the film, his focus was the slacktivists who

(57:57):
care about the Amazon, the social justice warriors, although he
wasn't using the term social justice warriors in twenty thirteen
because I don't think it was common parlance. Like I said,
he just kind of blows with the wind. So now
that's become a fashionable team. He uses it today. Back then,
it was all about slacktivists. Slacktivists, of course, are people
who just click like when they see something show up

(58:20):
on Facebook or Twitter and they retweet something. They don't
really do anything about it, but they feel good that
they've hit like or they've signed a petition, and then
they go back to their cozy little lives without really
inconveniencing themselves, and they're contributing nothing to the cause. That's
what slack divism is.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
And those people are very real, and they're very legitimitimasure
legitimate problems that the activist community could have with them.

Speaker 9 (58:48):
Yeah, and they're right for satire, there's no question about it,
no doubt. But let's face it, a group of kids
who get on a plane and go to the Amazon
to fight an oil company. That's not slacktivism. That's called activism.
So I think I think Paul Eli in his political confusion,

(59:08):
he's got activism, slacktivism confusion, or what I like to
call on cracktivism. That's his particular perspective on the issue. Yeah,
there's a.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Big difference between hashtaging something and actually getting on a plane,
traveling to a foreign country and actually trying to do something,
however misguided that thing may be. You at least can't
call those people lazy, and you at least can't say
that those people are just a bunch of hipster slackers
who you know, can't be bothered to do anything in

(59:42):
the real world. The fact that they're actually traveling out
to the jungle kind of undermines that premise just a
little bit.

Speaker 5 (59:49):
Mind.

Speaker 23 (59:49):
If a dummy asques what it is you hope to
find in this blessed village, I told you. My thesis
claims that cannibalism as an organized practice of human societ
does not exist, and historically has never existed.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
So much the better, dear, According to Gloria Man eat
Man is bullshit.

Speaker 23 (01:00:09):
Let's say it was an invention of racist colonialism, which
had a vested interest in creating the myth of the ferocious,
subhuman savage fit only for extermination. The mythical lie of
cannibal ferox was only an alibi to justify the greed
and cruelty of the conquistadores.

Speaker 9 (01:00:29):
So at some point last year, Eli did an interview
with a magazine and he was asked the question. One
reviewer called the portrayal of the indigenous peoples in the
Green and Ferno reactionary and dehumanizing. How do you respond
to that? And Eli says, I think the only people
who really worry about that are overly concerned North Americans

(01:00:54):
who want to appear concerned in other ways, the very
activists that Eli is attempting to lampoon, conveniently, the very
slacktivists that he thinks are likely to raise objections about
his depiction of indigenous tribes in the Amazon as flesh

(01:01:15):
eating cannibals.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Yeah, And I mean that's the interesting thing here is
that he seems sort of very confused about who exactly
it is he's going after and who exactly is the problem,
you know, is the problem in the Amazon slacktivists, Is
the problem in the Amazon actual activists traveling there to

(01:01:41):
to you know, take part in actual real world activism,
or is the real problems in the Amazon probably things
like oil companies, you know, corrupt governments, corrupt militaries, corrupt
police forces, all those sorts of things. Right, So, I mean,
by taking aim at people who are likely to be

(01:02:02):
helping these problems or at least wanting to help these
problems and maybe being misguided about how they're doing it,
or maybe not fully understanding the right way to help
or the most productive way to help. Their hearts are
still in a place that comes from wanting to actually
elevate the Amazon region out of some of the very real,

(01:02:24):
you know, threats to its future that it's under right now,
and going after those people just seems frightfully misguided to me.
You know, it just seems like, like, nah, I'm not
gonna I'm not going to go after the people who
really have a lot of power in this situation. I'm
going to go after the people who are actually relatively

(01:02:46):
powerless in this situation. And I think that's probably where
he's steering in a very wrong direction.

Speaker 9 (01:02:53):
I have a theory about this, and I feel like
very much how Griffith.

Speaker 20 (01:03:00):
D W.

Speaker 9 (01:03:00):
Griffith made intolerance as a spiteful reaction against what he
perceived to be the intolerance of the racism of bath
of a nation. I realized it's preposterous to talk about
Eli Roth in comparison to T. W. Griff who was
a visionary filmmaker, but politically in terms of their political cluelessness.

(01:03:21):
They're more closely aligned so very much. How Intolerance, which
is a stupid but magnificent film, tackles Griffith's frustration with
the intolerance of Birth of a Nation. I feel like
where Green Inferno is coming from initially is a build
up of this resentment, you know, the fact that I
blame it on Eliza douche Coup. Had she shown it

(01:03:43):
tits in wrong tain, we wouldn't have the Green Inferno
and the slacktivists under fire, because effectively, what he's doing
is he's demonizing the very people he imagines are going
to have a problem with him making a cannibal movie,
and not the actual.

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
People who have a problem with him making a cannibal movie.
And that's a very important distinction to make. The battle
that a lot of these people are having against selectivists
and that sort of thing are a battle with imaginary
people in their heads. They're fighting with shapes they see
in the clouds because they're not real things, you know.

(01:04:19):
So he's doing battle with these sort of imaginary activists
in his head that are going to hate this film,
when the reality may be very different and there may
be really very real activists with very legitimate concerns about
his film and the impact that it's going to have
on how Indigenous people are perceived, and in fact, the

(01:04:40):
impact he may have already had on an Indigenous people
that they shot with.

Speaker 9 (01:04:45):
So he and all this stuff, I just immediately tuned
out of The Green infa and O. And to be honest,
just Eli Roth, I'm like, Okay, enough is enough. You know,
I hate to be dismissive of someone. Like I said,
I do recognize that he's a hard guy. And even
making The Green Infano, I mean, the guy goes into

(01:05:05):
the Amazon, they almost died. Apparently at one point, they're
getting eaten alive by bugs. They're all getting sick. I mean,
you have to have respect for the effort and the
adventuresome spirit of the filmmaker, you know, doing this crazy
Fitzcaraldo type of thing or something, you know what I mean, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Exactly, It's awesome, Like on that level, it's so awesome
and so interesting, and I imagine there's a million amazing
stories about the production of this film and just the
kind of hardships that the crew and the actors went through,
and like I have no doubt that a herculean effort
was expended to make this movie, and I definitely have

(01:05:46):
a lot of respect for that.

Speaker 9 (01:05:48):
But in terms of my own sort of interest in
I guess what I'm attracted to in horror films and
why I'm fundamentally interested in the genre still as an
adult is because I really, especially in the nineties, I
really started to connect to the subverse of progressive elements
of the films, you know, like a movie like Dawn

(01:06:08):
of the Dead, Romero's Dawn of the Dead. It is
so important to me. But what I'm seeing in this
generation is a complete erosion of that sensibility. Somebody like
Eli Roth recognizes on a very superficial level that horror
films have great social import and he praises himself forgiving

(01:06:30):
The Green Inferno a social commentary, and other people just
blindly have praised him. It's got social commentary, just like
the great horror movies of the seventies. But I don't
think Eli quite understands the social commentary in some of
the great films that we all sort of mutually enjoy.
And that's the problem with him is political sensibility needs

(01:06:52):
a great deal of work. So despite how impressive his
efforts are and his work ethic. Personally, I just don't
care about the guy's trip anymore. I would have been
happy to go along my way and never think about
Eli Roth again. But then about a week and a
half ago, I get a link off a long time

(01:07:15):
Cinophobia listener and former contributor, mister Mike Tank, who has
a propensity for sending me these links that aggravate me
tremendously and have set me off on massive tirades, shit
that I would never know about otherwise, And this was
one of those instances. He sent me the link to
an article on a website called Bathmovies Death dot com.

(01:07:38):
The article was called eli Roth goes full gamer Gates
pimping the Green Inferno, and the article was talking about
the political sensibility behind the current Green Inferno, posting, now
we should mention also that the Green and Ferna went
into some sort of crazy distribution.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
Hell.

Speaker 9 (01:07:58):
I don't know what happened, but I think what happened
was the company that was going to distribute it went under,
and it took a while for him to kind of
attach it to another place, and he'd already been doing press.
It was supposed to come out in September twenty fourteen,
a full year after it was at the film Festival.
Well that was two years ago now, so in order

(01:08:21):
to bring it back into the marketplace and give it
a kind of fresh coat of pains as far as
the publicity goes, it's come out in September, by the way,
September twenty fifth. They devised a whole new marketing campaign
that apparently is taking advantage on some social cultural undercurrents
that have been going on lately that I've been largely

(01:08:43):
oblivious towards, but you've been really keyed into. So do
me a favor. Explain to me the poster of this
new campaign and exactly the sort of audience you think
the green Infirno is now meant to attract.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
Yeah, so this was fascinating actually, And as soon as
I saw this poster, I was actually pretty pretty blown
away by how sort of blatantly he's chasing this certain audience.
So what you see on the posters big letters justice
will be served, you know, big red letters. And then

(01:09:22):
you see this, you know, severed hand, you know, clutching
an iPhone. And I'm sure they were very intentional about
getting something that looked like an iPhone. You know, they've
got to sort of take the boots to those you know,
Apple hipsters. You know, I'm sure that was in a
discussion somewhere. And the phone has all these hashtags on it.
So somebody that looks like they're posting something to Twitter

(01:09:45):
and there's all these hashtags. And so there's you know,
jungle Gate, you know acts now you in Social Justice
for All, which, interestingly enough, I think all three of
those are actual hashtags that people use to discuss various issues.
And then there was Native Lives Matter and Indigenous Lives Matter,

(01:10:08):
which are two hashtags that looks like plays on the
Black Lives Matter hashtag. So's he's speaking to an audience
that that doesn't have a lot of respect or time
for this sort of hashtag activism, right. A lot of
people accuse it of being this sort of lazy, you know,

(01:10:29):
slacktivist kind of thing to do. And the thing is
is that these hashtags are also speaking very directly to
people involved in a movement called gamer gait. It's one
of the I guess, the biggest umbrella term we could
use for these people, although they have I mean, there's

(01:10:49):
gamer gait and there's some men's right stuff mixed up
in there, and it kind of goes all over the map.
So it's hard to kind of figure out what to
call these people. But the unifying principle is that they
all sort of can't stand these social justice warriors and
they're they're, oh, they can't take it. You know, they
don't like their social justice warriors can't tolerate free speech,

(01:11:14):
and you know, we're not allowed to say what we
want because social justice warriors are here, you know, shaming
people off the Internet and you know, using their Twitter
activism to you know, make people lose their jobs because
they said something awful on the Internet, or make somebody
you know, have to apologize because they say something awful
on the Internet. There's a real pushback against any sort

(01:11:38):
of social justice type speech on the Internet. There's a
real pushback against minorities and women having an opportunity to
speak openly on the Internet, which in a way it
very much harms one of the key functions as I
see it, of the Internet, which is allowing people who

(01:12:01):
have been kept out of traditional mass media. The Internet
is a bit of a playing field leveler for those people.
It's a way for those people to get their issues
on a much larger stage, and so by by playing
with a group that is really dedicated to shutting that down, right, Like,

(01:12:22):
they don't want to hear that. We don't want to
hear about your minority problems. We don't want to hear
about your you know, your your women's problems. Oh you're
you're concerned about violence and video games, Well you don't what.
We don't want to hear about that. And you're concerned
about the portrayal of women in video games, Well, we
don't definitely don't want to hear about any of that.
And it just kind of goes on and on and

(01:12:43):
on and on and on. Right, we don't want to
hear about minorities. We don't want to hear about this.
So it's it's in a way quite perverse, you know,
to be to be going after people who are actively
working to shut down minority voices, particularly voices are women.
It's they have a very shocking propensity for that. So

(01:13:05):
right away when you see this poster speaking to that group,
it's it's shocking.

Speaker 9 (01:13:10):
Well, there's a couple of things that strike me as odd.
First of all, so while we can I guess all
empathize to some degree with the frustration of I hate
the term social justice worry, but the type of person
that's just going to get like, really intensely offended by stuff,
you know, and call for boycotts of things. And they exist, obviously,

(01:13:32):
while we can get irritated by that. The problem I
think with Eli's marketing, and at this point when I
first saw the poster, I actually assumed it was just
obliviousness on his post. I'm questioning that now significantly, as
I think we all will by the time we get
to the end of this. But he's equating that kind
of knee jake slacktivism meaninglessness with legitimate activism.

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:13:58):
Absolutely, like the Black Lives Matter movement, which seems to
be lampooned in that poster. This is a situation that
happened in the wake of the Trayvon Martin killing, where
George Zimmermann got away scoff free from just hunting down
a black head and shooting them to death. The movement
exploded in the wake of the Walter Scott shooting, where

(01:14:18):
a policeman shot a black man eight times in the back.
The video everyone's seen the video eight times in the
back supposedly for a traffic violation. So this movement has
grown in opposition to this epidemic of police brutality and
just the mistreatment of black people in American society at large.

(01:14:40):
It's a popular movement against it. Speaking out against it.
That gives legitimacy to the great promise of the Internet
that the Internet could be used to mobilize and organize
and build progressive movements. Like these hashtags aren't just meaningless
things that people throw around. They do reflect actual organized movements.

(01:15:00):
There was a massive Black Lives Matter demonstration here in Toronto,
and this is necessary. Is Eli really against people speaking
out against these crimes against ethnic minorities in America that
are all over the internet.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
And is he willing to do that to the extent
that he is willing to engage and inflame a group
that has actually contributed quite a bit to attempting to
shut all that sort of debate and decission down right
and to silence minority voices on these very issues. And
I mean, while we're kind of talking, you know, selectivism

(01:15:39):
and all that sort of thing, you know, we need
to keep in mind the extreme power of social media
in terms of using it to politically mobilize, particularly in
countries where traditional means of mobilization are not as available
to everyone. You know, Twitter played an extremely large role

(01:16:00):
in the activism during the Arab Spring that brought down
the Egyptian government. You know, it's very important to keep
in mind that these are not it's not slacktivists doing this.
You know, these tools are being used by people to
overthrow oppressive regimes around the world, you know, and been
proven to be valuable tools for doing so. Google had

(01:16:21):
a full time employee working just to keep activists informed
of new techniques to keep their methods of communication up
and running, because Google recognized the power of the Internet
in order to keep activists connected. It's a profoundly, profoundly
important tool. And while you can definitely find people using

(01:16:44):
it to share pictures of cats and their dicks and
whatever else, you can also find it find people organizing
to overthrow oppressive regimes. And that's important, you know. I
think that's worth all the worthless cat pictures and whatever
both shit that's on there.

Speaker 9 (01:17:02):
So in the wake of that Bath movie's death article,
I went back to take another look, a closer look
at a petition i'd caught wind of a couple of
weeks earlier, but I never really paid any real attention
to it because, like I said, I wasn't really interested
in the movie. But a petition showed up on change
dot Org entitled petitioning Eli Roth to cancel the launch

(01:17:23):
of the dehumanizing film Green Inferno. The petition was started
by somebody called boycott Green in fa and O from
the United States. There's no clues as to the identity
of who started the petition, and there's a statement there
attributed to Amazon Watch, which is an environmental organization, and

(01:17:45):
it's a statement taking issue with the depiction of the
Indigenous peoples in the Green in Fear and O. Like
I said, initially, I didn't pay much attention to it.
I did notice that you get your typical response, especially
the reaction area's weighing in, going, oh, that's social justice warriors.
They've gone too far.

Speaker 3 (01:18:02):
There's time, but they're all over the petition, like the
comments you can't you can't throw a rock and not
hit some guy who's you know, making hateful comments or
you know, trashing Native people or trashing sjw's. It's completely
overrun with reactionaries at this point.

Speaker 9 (01:18:21):
But taking a close look, I realized immediately that there's
quite a few very suspicious things about this particular petition.
First of all, it's signed off by Amazon Watch, which
nobody seemed to be talking about. That this is a
legitimate environmental movement. So all that I hate these social
justice warriors, well, Amazon Watch aren't slacktivists. They're not just

(01:18:45):
hashtag reactive wingin babies. They're actually people on the ground
trying to make a difference, supposedly in the Amazon I
don't really know that much about the organization. Weirdly, I'll
tell you this how I've laid this. Eli Roth has
a great deal of respect for this organization. Loves Amazon

(01:19:08):
Watch absolutely, he does.

Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
You know, he certainly would consider their seal of approval
a very important thing to the legitimacy of the Green Inferno.

Speaker 9 (01:19:17):
So, all of a sudden, we got a petition against
the movie. Now, as anyone who has even a rudimentary
understanding of the history of exploitation films, nothing helps promote
a horror movie better than when a group comes out
in opposition to it or calls for a boycott. It's
a great publicity tool. So immediately I started to suspect,

(01:19:39):
maybe this is a fabrication of the marketing department of
the Green and Feno. It's a legitimate question. This petition
conveniently shows up that seems to not only be drumming
up controversy for the film, but also seemingly becomes evidence
for what the film is about, these people who won't
let us do what we want, these social justice warriors.

(01:20:02):
So peeking around some of the comments everywhere, this wasn't
an uncommon conclusion that fans were drawing that it was
a marketing ploy.

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
Yeah, it was definitely my assessment also, right like just
sort of my shoot from the hip look at it was, Yeah,
this is probably some kind of marketing you know, smoking
mirrors from the you know, Eli Ross team. Certainly not
unexpected and very much par for the exploitation course.

Speaker 9 (01:20:30):
And of course this is bothering me because again he's
equating who he thinks he's going after, slacktivists with actual activism.
So if they're throw an Amazon Watch under the bus
to draw up some phony marketing campaign and they're bringing
out of the woodwork all these reactionary, spiteful, hateful comments
against the people doing the petition. Then they're trying to

(01:20:51):
destroy the credibility of an actual legitimate activist organization to
draw them up support for an argument that's bullshit to
begin with. The Other theory is that maybe it was
somebody from Amazon Watch. So I google the phrase, I
go back to Amazon Watch. There's nothing on their site
about it. I couldn't find any real hits leading me

(01:21:12):
to the source of the statement that was included in
the petition.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
Yeah, and their page is full of campaigns that they
are currently running, awareness campaigns, all that sort of thing.
There's no mention of Green Inferno, no mention of Eliingroth,
no mention of anything of that nature.

Speaker 9 (01:21:30):
But maybe it was somebody associated with them who didn't
have the full blessing of the organization signing off on
their statements a theory. The third theory was that it
was a hoax by the very sort of gamer gate
community that you were talking about, because apparently these guys
liked to wage Internet hoaxes, right.

Speaker 3 (01:21:52):
Yeah, absolutely, that was a strong suspicion of mine as well,
was the idea that they would cook up this. Hey,
look at what the sjw's are doing to sort of
drum up support and you know sort of you know,
bang the gongs and get everybody up and out in
arms about it, right, And this is this is a
community of people. It's sort of known for pranks, known

(01:22:14):
for uh, these sort of and I hate this term
because that's such a weird conspiracy theorist thing, but these
false flag operations and all that kind of stuff. And
these guys think that this, these are the tactics that
activists will use against them. Like, they think that activists
are going to use these false flag tactics, and they
think sjw's are like, you know, faking nine to eleven

(01:22:36):
to you know, get the Patriot Act brought in, and
like that's what some of these people think, right, So
they think nothing of, well, hey, we'll fake a petition
and you know, we'll doctor this whole thing up. So
it's not an unexpected tactic from them. And I thought
it was a distinct possibility and among a realm of possibilities.

Speaker 9 (01:22:57):
It's funny you mentioned the Patriot Act issue because I
guess in theory, these libertarian types would be opposed to
the Patriot Act.

Speaker 3 (01:23:07):
Yeah, yeah, it's very funny. The interesting thing about these
guys is that they're in many ways indistinguishable from like
the really hard right wing, you know, white supremacists, like
that kind of attitude, except in some really key areas.
And those key areas are things like personal privacy, things

(01:23:29):
like legalizing weed, things like atheism. You know, like they're
all for the most part, again not very hospitable to religion,
very much into the idea of legalizing dope, and very
much against the idea of any kind of government intrusion
into their lives, which is is very very interesting. You know,

(01:23:52):
it's almost like they're a they're they're the Internet generation
of the right wing. You know, they're the next iteration
of what this is going to look like in the future.
You have a group like gamer Gate, which is effectively
leaderless right and they've made it so that there's no
sort of one point of contact and there's no one
unified set of beliefs. I mean, they will try and

(01:24:14):
tell you that it's all about you know, ethics and
video game journalism or whatever, but I mean when their
actions are completely incongruent with that and they're asked to
account for it, they're able to say, well, that's not
really us with somebody else, And you know, because being
a gamer Gator is a self identifying thing. It's very

(01:24:34):
easy for them to point to anybody who's behaving in
a way that is unsavory and say, well, they're not
one of us. Really, you know, they go, well, they're
not really one of our people. So engaging with them
on this level, you're presuming that you're engaging with people
who want to have a discussion in good faith, right,
people who are actually there to have a debate, and

(01:24:56):
people who are actually there who are are not just
going to be sort of advocating for their own position,
but in fact listening to yours and trying to find
ways to find common ground and find things that we
can agree to work on together. And unfortunately, gamer Gate
seems pathologically incapable of working with other people because they

(01:25:21):
demand this level of ideological purity, right, like you have
to be ideologically aligned with what we think, or else
you are out. There's no like, we're not going to
talk about it, We're not going to have a little debate.
It's you are either on this end of the spectrum

(01:25:42):
or you're out of it. You know, you don't get
to participate. So while on one hand, I think it
would be amazing to be able to try and bring
some of these groups together and have them talk and
hopefully find a better an understanding of each other. I
just don't see it happening with the current structure that

(01:26:04):
these groups are using now. Anyway.

Speaker 9 (01:26:06):
It's funny because you're saying that the gamergases are inflexible
and despise views contrary to their own.

Speaker 3 (01:26:14):
But this is absolutely but this.

Speaker 9 (01:26:17):
Is their essential complaint with the so called sjw's it is.

Speaker 3 (01:26:22):
It absolutely is. And that's the bizarre perverse thing about
it is that you know, they're very, very very angry
about criticism of their games and criticism of gamer culture,
but to the point where you're excluded, you know, like

(01:26:43):
we don't even want to hear it, and they see
it as just utter blasphemy, like no way, we will
not tolerate it, and we will. We will get advertisers
to pull their money out, and you know, if news
outlets write thing bad things about us, we will have
you know, letter writing campaigns and harassment campaigns and all
this kind of stuff, right to shut those people down

(01:27:04):
and to try and influence the public discourse towards a
positive image of gamer gait. But it's a positive image
that almost can't exist because of the nature of their
actions and because of the nature of the people that
they associate with, you know, just by virtue of being
on the same end of the ideological spectrum. Right when

(01:27:25):
you're that far into the extremities of the right wing
libertarian worldview, the other people standing with you at that
pole are a certain type.

Speaker 9 (01:27:38):
And this brings another important point and a reflection I
had looking at that poster and thinking about it. There's
sort of two worlds happening in parallel. There's the grown
up world where corporations and private businesses and governments and
so on do whatever they're doing in the Amazon, and

(01:28:00):
the response to that are the activist groups who have
funding and they're growing ups, and they do campaigns and
they get in there and they have actions against governments
and they do whatever they can to sort of address
those issues. But then there's the reflection of that world
and what is essentially the children's world. The children's world

(01:28:21):
where people fight about these issues on the Internet between
video gamers and Twitter windurers.

Speaker 3 (01:28:27):
Right, people who still think there's an argument about whether
racism is okay or not, or people who still think
there's an argument about whether our current climate of capitalism
is a good idea or not, you.

Speaker 9 (01:28:42):
Know, children exactly, essentially children. And I think it's really
telling that Eli's focus in terms of the global issues
of play here skews towards the children. His global view
is based on how children are arguing about these ideas
on the fucking Internet.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
Yeah, it's pretty telling that the perspectives that Eli Roth
is choosing to use his marketing campaign to elevate are
not perhaps the more mature perspectives of you know, actual
you know, non government organizations, you know, activists and indigenous
people who are actually working on the ground in these situations,

(01:29:27):
and instead is looking towards this sort of insulated, immature
world of people who are really wrapped up in their
self image as seeing themselves as dispossessed white men largely,
who feel as if they've had all this stuff taken
away from them, you know, who feel as if they've

(01:29:48):
lost their their premissy, you know, and they're kind of
wondering what happened? Why can't I call people fags anymore?

Speaker 14 (01:29:55):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:29:56):
What do you mean? I can't call women pussies? What
do you mean? You know, it's this outrage. It's like
I used to be able to say whatever I want.
I used to be able to do whatever I want,
you know, I used to be able to get to
make rape jokes and nobody cringed, you know, and people
didn't judge me for it. And now all of a sudden,

(01:30:17):
you know, I'm having to hear all these perspectives from
minorities that I didn't really have to hear anymore, you know,
because they weren't around. They're not on television, they're not
on you know, the mainstream news, and they're not on
all these outlets that we control that these you know,
straight white men largely control. So on the Internet, all

(01:30:38):
of a sudden, man, I got to hear all this
stuff from gays and lesbians and transgendered people and you know,
black people, Indigenous people, you know, all kinds of people
all over the place with their inspectives and people who
have really have one thing in common and in that
they have been marginalized by white Western culture have been

(01:31:03):
shut out of these conversations. And instead of seeing this
ability for these people to join the global conversation on
the same level playing field as everyone else on the internet,
instead of seeing that as a positive thing. They see
that as a diminishment of their premissy in the world,
and it fills them with just absolute fear. It's sad,

(01:31:27):
I mean, at heart, it's a very sad thing. Because
as much as I hate to say that, I don't
think all, you know, as much as it's easy to
say all these people are all idiot douchebags, I don't
think they are. I think they're just people who don't
know where their place in the world is. And they're scared,
and they're lashing out, you know, and they're awfully frustrated,

(01:31:47):
and they don't know what else to do. And so
here they are striking out the people that they think
have diminished them.

Speaker 15 (01:31:54):
Why the answers are all right here in this sculpture.
Take for instance, what this represents us. Here is the
struggle of the races, men's inhumanity to man. It's true,
all the shining hope of a new brotherhood.

Speaker 3 (01:32:08):
See the girl has gone basship.

Speaker 7 (01:32:12):
I'm all alone.

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
Well, I'm all alone in this house.

Speaker 24 (01:32:18):
Isn't anybody else interested in our poland standards?

Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
Our wild is come and crumbling down. The coons are coming.
Cauchy twelve percent of.

Speaker 5 (01:32:32):
The population is black, there should be a lot of
black families living out here.

Speaker 3 (01:32:36):
Yeah, this is only a beginning, but I think it's wonderful. Wonderful.

Speaker 9 (01:32:40):
Huh, Well, let's see how wonderful it is when a
watermelon Ryan's come flying on the way. So this is
at the very core of what I think these groups
are failing to recognize, is that there is a big
difference between the kind of trials and tribute relations that

(01:33:01):
these repressed groups face and why they feel they need
to have a voice, and why now with the Internet
they have one. Like when you made a cannibal movie
in the eighties, who was going to complain about it?
They didn't have a voice.

Speaker 3 (01:33:14):
Now they do exactly.

Speaker 9 (01:33:15):
And it's this failure to and again with the youth
culture when we're talking about anyone under the age of
twenty five, because apparently the human brain takes twenty five
years to properly develop, you don't have all the mechanisms
in place. You can't really think compassionately very easily, especially
when you're a young male and you just filled with testosterone.
It really does cloud your judgment. And I see, like

(01:33:38):
you sent me links to some of these discussions that
were happening in places like Reddit, and I really see
this mentality there, and I actually understand the mentality because
I connected to it myself. You know, I grew up
as a kid in the seventies and my big hero
was Said Vicious from the Sex Pistols. And what was

(01:34:00):
Said Vicious famous for, amongst many things, he'd walk around
with a swastika T shirt on in post war Britain,
one generation after we'd been bombed by the Germans and
people died horrendously and everyone knew someone who died, or
we came from a whole generation of men who fought

(01:34:20):
in World War II against Hitler. Sid Vicious in nineteen
seventy seven whilst around England with a brazen swastika on
his T shirt. Now, I don't believe Sid Vicious was
particularly a fan of the Nazi movement. Who knows, I
don't think so. He was a kid anyway, he probably

(01:34:42):
never really thought through it. But the impulse was coming
from just being so antagonistic to the moral guardians of society,
who was a youthful rebellion, spitting in the face of
the people telling him how he should behave. And I
see that with these kids on the internet, and they're
sentiments because they seem to just viciously hate anyone that

(01:35:05):
demonstrates any sensitivity or compassion. They'll just rip them to shreds.
So if you're on the internet doing a hashtag going oh,
we gotta stop hating the poor little babies in Rwanda
or whatever, they'll descend on you like a pack of
walls and rip you to pieces because they delight in
the merciless lack of compassion. And again, it's a youth thing.

(01:35:28):
We're talking about brains that haven't fully developed. So if
anyone under the age of twenty five is listening to this,
keep that in mind. Your brain isn't fully awaken yet.
So before you act and make any decisions, spend a
bit of time just dating, reflecting to compensate for that

(01:35:48):
lack of neural development.

Speaker 3 (01:35:50):
Yeah, I think your example is really really act with
said vicious and the swastika, and they're just big like
fuck you, you know everybody, right, I mean, that's what
that was about. It wasn't an expression of national socialism.
It was an expression of fuck anybody who tells me
I can't do this right, And I mean that speaks

(01:36:13):
to me as well, you know, like the sex pistols
totally spoke to me, you know, and still do to
this day. So I get where this comes from. And
the interesting thing is a lot of you have to
understand that where where this started, where this movement sort
of sprang from. I was a website called four Chan,
and you know, I was a I've been paying attention

(01:36:37):
to what's going on on four Chan for a long
long time. I used to regularly visit the site around
you know, I don't know, the early two thousands, and
I saw this come up, and the early people who
posted on four Chan practiced this sort of ironic hatred
right where it's like, we're going to use the most
awful terms possible, and we're going to speak about people

(01:36:59):
in the most disgusting terms possible, where you can use racist,
awful terms, and we're gonna use bigoted, homophobic, you know,
language all over the place, and we're gonna do it.
Why not because we feel this way, but because fuck you,
that's why, you know. And there was a very sort
of punk rock very much. You know, you're not gonna
tell us how we're allowed to communicate, and we're going

(01:37:20):
to recontextualize all this stuff, and it was it was
wanting to be transgressive, you know, and you really very
much got the sense that this was an outlet for people.
This was a way for people who were basically fucking
living in cubicles and city corporate jobs, or otherwise feeling
sort of downtrodden by a society to sort of push

(01:37:43):
back against it a bit. And unfortunately, what we've learned
is that ironic hate only really seems to provide shelter
for real hate, right because drop the single biggest sin
you could commit onfourtune was dropping the act and actually
being sincere right.

Speaker 9 (01:38:03):
So you couldn't you couldn't come out and say you're
a faggot.

Speaker 3 (01:38:06):
And then when somebody was like, hey man, you know
that hurt my feelings, well, first of all, even to me,
that hurt your feelings, forget it. You're going to get
ripped apart. But then if you if someone would apologize
and say, oh, you know what, I'm really not a bigot.
You know, I'm using that word because I'm just trying
to be transgressive, and you know, this is this is
all just a big show. You couldn't do that. That
was strictly forbidden you know, that was not part of

(01:38:27):
the playbook. Part of the playbook was sticking to the
script and making all the people who visited that site
convinced that this was some insane, crazy place on the
Internet where anything could happen, and it was this wild,
anarchic place, and because of that, it provided this perfect
shelter for people who actually did have bigoted opinions to

(01:38:48):
come and express them completely freely, completely openly, and not
only not be shouted down for them, but be congratulated,
encouraged and validated. And you put that in a pressure
cooker for a decade, and now you have a site
like reddit. You know, twentieth largest website in the world.

(01:39:09):
It's also considered now by the Southern Poverty Law Center
to be the fastest growing hate site on the planet.
You know, there are groups within Reddit who have been
specifically identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as potential
hate groups and active hate groups. You've got you know,
these gamergators posting on their you know, they have their

(01:39:31):
own subreddits. The same people, though, are also posting on
other subreddits like coon Town, which is a completely openly
racist shithole where people openly you know, denigrate black people.
You know, it's some of the most awful, vile racism
we've seen, and it is actively encouraged by the Reddit

(01:39:54):
community and seen as a legitimate part of a spectrum
of free speech, you know. And then so their rights
to basically act like bigots and shout down minorities on
the site are protected as well. They're free to do so. Well,
that's the price of free speech is you have to
deal with you have to deal with bigotry. And we're
not going to try and maybe discourage that in our community.

(01:40:17):
We're going to let it flourish. And so from coon Town,
you've got people connected to sites like the Daily Stormer.
And the Daily Stormer is a news website. It's all,
you know, sort of white power, extreme right wing news,
if you can call it that. And we now know

(01:40:38):
that Dylan Roof, the Charleston shooter, was an active poster
on the Daily Stormer and may have also been a
poster on coon Town. So what we're seeing here is
this ironic online hate that nobody really took seriously a
decade ago is now real hate that's recruiting real, dangerous, dispossessed,

(01:41:03):
disaffected people to its cause. And who are actually going
out into the real world and committing actual violence upon people.
And it's that confluence of events that makes marketing to
these people in my mind, dangerous and so irresponsible, you know,
because let's not forget that, you know, coontown all this

(01:41:28):
white supremacist stuff. They don't really have the highest opinion
of Jews either. Popular sight on there was called you know,
forgive me for saying it, but there was a popular
subredit for a long time called gas the Kikes, you know,
and there was significant overlap. They've done really extensive studies
of this, and there's significant overlap between people posting and

(01:41:50):
gamer Gate related science, people posting in coon Town, people
posting in sights like gas the Caikes. There's another site
called the goyam No and it's just full of awful, awful, awful,
just anti Semitic stereotypes and awful awful, just the most
bigoted language you could use against Jews. Imaginable. So to

(01:42:11):
imagine that here's these people being courted and marketed to
when they're actually part of a core of online hatred
that is killing people and driving women into hiding and
harassing people, you know, right off the internet. Harassing people

(01:42:31):
right out of any sort of public spaces where they
might feel safe. I mean, that's what these people are
up to. And so that's why when you see them
being marketed to by somebody, you've got to understand that
that's either somebody who has no idea who the hell
it is that they're trying to woo, or they know

(01:42:53):
exactly who it is they're trying to woo. And I
guess that's really the question, right, does he lrov understand
who he's coming after here? Do does he understand the
people that he is trying to get onto his side,
or is he getting involved in something that he's way

(01:43:13):
out of his depth on.

Speaker 9 (01:43:15):
Well, the funny thing about Eli and these gamergates is
some of the links that you sent me to I
went on there and they were saying things like, you
know what, even though he's a Jew, I guess he's
okay because he hates the SJWs. So I guess he's okay.
I'll give him him a pass on that. So, and
the other thing is another guy was saying, it's kind

(01:43:35):
of creepy that a grown up is using the term sjw's,
isn't it. So it's like all these kids almost snickering
about Eli, the fact that he's Jewish, the fact that
he's a grown up. And I want you think about this.
He's been retweeting some of these like twenty year old
video gamers renting about the sjuws and so on. He's

(01:43:57):
a forty three year old man, he's retweeting games like
that's his perspective. I want you to think about that
for a minute. And jes State.

Speaker 11 (01:44:09):
Social justice warriors of the world, here's a little bit
of advice from Alpha Maga said. If you're so offended
by everything, how about this, go to a fucking island
with all the other fucking social justice warriors on a
little collectivists, all your motherfuckers that are just so easily
offended and bothered by everything, and sit on that island
and do nothing but torture one another because nobody wants

(01:44:31):
to hear you, nobody wants to see nobody wants to
deal with you, nobody.

Speaker 25 (01:44:34):
Even wants to have you the fuck around, because you
pollute the goddamn environment with your idiocy that is running
rampant and never fucking ending.

Speaker 9 (01:44:44):
So, getting back to the petition, given the fact that
there was so many obviously weird, suspicious things potentially about it.
I was really surprised, disheartened. Actually, in a way, I
wasn't surprised, because I've grown to have absolutely no faith
in this as a culture of journalism. Absolutely, I don't
think you have either, No No, So I guess I

(01:45:06):
wasn't surprised, but I was disheartened to see that none
of the horror sites that I went to that were
picking up the story even questioned the legitimacy of the petition.
You know, the number one horror sites obviously is bloody disgust.
And they're far from the only ones who ran with
this without questioning it. But they did. And the article
was called some idiot is petitioning for the Green and

(01:45:29):
Fear and No to be boycotted. And I was written
by a bloke named Jonathan Barkin, And he goes on
to say A few days ago, director Eli Roth spoke
about his upcoming cannibal horror film The Green and Feno
in an interview, explaining that the characters we'd be seeing
on screen where caricatures of Sjaw's those people online who

(01:45:50):
find a fence at every single little thing and seemingly
don't find anything in life to enjoy. While cannibal films
never really interested me. Roth's comments shot the Green and
Phano to the top of my must see list because
those people irritate the hell out of me. And this
is the common sentiment that you see basically with everyone

(01:46:12):
who picked up the story and commented on a petition.
He goes on to say, as if on cue and
in a shockingly ironic move, a petition has been created
by these sjw's to have the film boycotted, if not
outright canceled. So here's the thing, and here's the problem.
If we accept the petition of face value that it's

(01:46:35):
a statement from Amazon Watch, they are legitimately equating Amazon
Watch with slacktivists. Again, real activism with slack divism, adults
with children. These are the kind of confused parallels that
Elias set up with his marketing campaign.

Speaker 3 (01:46:53):
Yeah, they don't seem to understand that like Amazon Watch
is a legitimate non government organization, that it's not you know,
a bunch of you know, it's not a bunch of
you know, hipsters and skinny jeans, you know, tweeting about
stuff on their iPhones. These are people doing legitimate work

(01:47:14):
in a very legitimate field.

Speaker 9 (01:47:15):
And the other thing that bothers me is first of all,
not questioning its legitimacy. And it's obviously you know, even
the fans in the comments are going, dude, it's obviously
marketing hype. But they're not reaching out to Amazon for
a statement to verify the legitimacy of the petition. Why
not just make a phone call? Why not write an email?

(01:47:35):
These guys are on the internet.

Speaker 3 (01:47:37):
Yeah, and these are people who ostensibly want to call
themselves journalists, and at every turn, well we'll try and
you know, convince people that they should be taken seriously
as writers and journalists. And yet they seem to just
want to uncritically reprint whatever sort of put in front
of them. And they're not showing any interest whatsoever into
getting into this story behind the story. And actually, I

(01:48:01):
don't know being a reporter.

Speaker 9 (01:48:03):
Another thing that I saw in one instance after another
after another. Now Bloody discussed and actually did go to
the trouble of reprinting the content of the petition, but
there's no commentary of substance about anything in the petition,
the statement attributed to Amazon Watch. It was just all
railing against the fact that somebody was calling for a boycott. So,

(01:48:26):
because nobody has addressed the substance of that statement, I'm
going to read it now so that we can think
on it and let it ges date for a minute. Yes,
the statement says, films like this have always portrayed negative
stereotypes against Indigenous people as brute savages. These films have

(01:48:49):
psychological effect as Indigenous people have been through colonial trauma,
assimilate into white culture, being taught self hate Westerners or
on un fortunately ignorant about Amazonian Indigenous cultures and depicting
them in such a violent story dehumanizes their peoples and

(01:49:11):
couldn't be father from reality. Shame on you as a storyteller.
You hold a great responsibility to influence others. Propagating such
hate towards peoples who have been ravaged and raped for
decades by white supremacist culture is not constructive in our
fight to save the Amazon. Most Indigenous communities are more

(01:49:33):
in tune with nature than you'll ever be and would
never conceive of such violence for profit. It's a shame.
We should be creating stories that accurately depict Indigenous way
of life, which is holistic, sustainable, spiritual, and harmonious with
our earth and brothers and sisters, If you want to

(01:49:54):
save the Amazon and stop China from buying leases to
drill oil, make a story depicting the corporate shills for
the murderers that they really are. You don't have to
create racist, offensive, inaccurate crap to get people to care
about the most biodiverased place on the earth. And if

(01:50:14):
you really want to make a difference, give your money
to organizations like us who are the people on the
ground standing up for indigenous rights and making tangible change.
Indigenous peoples are the key to preserving the Amazon. If
we don't respect and empower them, we will lose the

(01:50:35):
lungs of our planet. They should be honored and respected.
Amazon watch.

Speaker 3 (01:50:42):
Those noted SJW slacktivists. Amazon watch. And this really is
where the incoherence starts to culminate, Right, It all starts
to come to a head. The entire nonsensical Native sure
of this marketing campaign, right is are they really going

(01:51:05):
after a group like this who is making a very
real difference or are they going after hipsters?

Speaker 9 (01:51:14):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:51:14):
I mean, this is this is what it comes down to.
They're trying to make these people the equivalent of those
fucking asshole hipsters that nobody can stand.

Speaker 9 (01:51:25):
If Eli's behind this petition as a marketing store, we
don't know. I mean, alls we know at this point
is that nothing about this petition shows up anywhere on
Amazon Watch, and none of the horror sites reporting on
it have bothered to look into the source of it.
Not just the horror sites, but bigger news organizations. Too.

(01:51:46):
Bright Butts, the super hardcore right wing libertarian news site,
picked up the story with the title enough entire entertainment
industry says no more to social justice warry.

Speaker 3 (01:52:00):
Is I don't know, when you know Eli Roth became
the entire entertainment industry? You know like that, I mean
it's hyperboly right off the bat, but yeah, it's great.

Speaker 9 (01:52:11):
Well, they mentioned all the comedians and stuff in context
of that article, so they're just making a case that,
you know, Hollywood's coming out to speak out against the SGWS,
but interestingly Eli Roth is becoming their poster boy. So
talk about that article, like, describe the article and who
wrote the article and what your impressions of it were.

Speaker 3 (01:52:33):
So right away, it's funny because as soon as this
article sort of popped up on my radar, you know,
I saw it was Breitbart, and I you know, so
obviously it's like, oh boy, Breitbart, Okay, huge, you know,
right wing site. You kind of know what you're about
to get into. And then you click on it and
you see the byline. And the byline is extremely important

(01:52:54):
because one of the authors is Milo Janopolis. And I
hope that I'm not you know, butchering his name too badly.
But he is a extremely well known figure in the
gamer gate community. He's a journalist for Breitbart who has
largely used his position at Breitbart to amplify the gamer

(01:53:18):
gate message. He's written all kinds of articles about gamer
Gate and about gamer Gate issues and the whole anti
SJW movement and the entire sort of free speech absolutist movement,
which all these things sort of get tied up into.
So Milo is not just sort of some bystander. Milo

(01:53:39):
is somebody who's actively trying to help create a media
narrative of gamer Gate being this popular movement for ethics
and to fight against the oppressive scourge of you know,
the sjaws. And so he's attempting, in a way to
create these heroes for they might and to show that, yes,

(01:54:01):
Hollywood supports us. You know, the creative industries are behind us.
You know, they support our concepts of free speech, and
they support the fact that we want to have subredits
called gas the Caykes and you know all that stuff.
It gets I mean, it gets really crazy when you
start observing it and understanding who is putting this message

(01:54:22):
out and what their motives are.

Speaker 9 (01:54:26):
He goes on to say, seemingly determined to prove rothriights.
A change dot org petition has called on the director
to cancel the launch of the Green Infano on the
grounds that it dehumanizes Indigenous people. But the petition looks
like damage control to prevent dehumanizing undignified sjw's again another

(01:54:49):
journalist not questioning the petition and castigating this group. And
you know, because it's convenient, because it supports their that
this would be a legitimate cry of outrage, and because
it reveals the horrible nature of the sgw's.

Speaker 3 (01:55:08):
Yeah, and Milo's involvement here. I mean, this was definitely
another signal that hold on a minute, things are not
all what they seem here. You know, like there's something
hinky about this petition. There's something kinky about this whole story,
because if Milo's involved, you just kind of know that
there's something else going on. And when I saw this,

(01:55:30):
I was pretty convinced at that point that, Yep, I'm
pretty sure that this petition was probably some kind of
you know eight chan, you know, something cooked up in irc,
something cooked up in eight chan by these you know,
gamer Gate and NTSJW types, this sort of false flag
operation they'd like to set up. As soon as I

(01:55:51):
saw Milo pumping this story, I thought, man, here it is,
you know, because he's the usual mouthpiece they sort of
feed things too, and he brings them out into a
larger media, so I thought, for sure that's what we
were looking at.

Speaker 9 (01:56:04):
He does go on to make some interesting points that
are worth discussing. He mentions a situation that happened on
Twitter when a woman named Suie Park went on a
rampage against Colbert because she believed Colbert was making racist
jokes on Twitter, and what happened was as a satirical

(01:56:25):
response to something the Washington Redskins said Colbert made a joke.
He said, I am willing to show the Asian community
that I care by introducing the Ching Chung Ding Dong
Foundation for Sensitivity to Orientals or whatever, which is obviously

(01:56:45):
it's a funny joke, but they took it out of context.
They put it on Twitter and not I guess, fully
understanding the context. This young Asian American woman saw it
as a racist joke, went on a rampage, did a
cancel Colbert. She was all over the internet. Apparently everyone
hates on it for doing this, and obviously that was
an hysterical response. And I think everyone who hates the

(01:57:09):
sjw's because it's just a popular sentiment in the culture
at large.

Speaker 3 (01:57:13):
They hate that.

Speaker 9 (01:57:14):
They don't want to have people just flying off the
handle calling for censorship, calling for things to be shut down,
and I don't support that either. I don't support the
petition against the movie. I don't support canceling Colbert for
making a very pointed satirical view, of course, But because
I guess I'm over the age of twenty five of
my brain has developed. I can look at things from

(01:57:36):
another point of view, and I can imagine the frustration
that maybe a young Asian American woman might feel growing
up in a culture where, for the most part, it's
only fairly recently that Asians were starting to demonstrate a
more kind of diverse depiction in American culture, like in

(01:57:56):
the last like five years. I think.

Speaker 3 (01:57:58):
Yeah, the progress has been like very recent, I think,
and it's still it's still nowhere where it needs to be, right,
I mean this, the popular perception is still you know, oh,
you do karate and you know that kind of stuff, right,
it's ridiculous, Right, Imagine living with that. Imagine growing up
your whole life and it's it's chopsak, kung fu, chopsticks, meat, Chinese,

(01:58:26):
you know, sideways vagina like like just imagine, you know,
like that's your whole bloody life coming up.

Speaker 9 (01:58:33):
Yeah, and you grow up with one depiction after another. Way,
especially women, there's two stereotypes. There's the subcessive sex slave.
There's also then the dragon lady, the exotic temptress, and
also the fact that she may have even been called
ching Chung ding dong growing up as a kid. Now,
I remember when Dexter came out, there was so much
talk about like the character of Musaka as an agent,

(01:58:54):
Paerson having the particular attributes that he has, and he
said in an interview, going you know, people aren't used
to see an Asians being like the way I am,
being funny and being kind of pervated, you know, young
Asian men like this. It's a kind of a leap
forward in terms of depicting a more diverse face to
that culture. So while it's preposterous and silly to call

(01:59:19):
for Colbert to stop because of making a racist joke,
you have to appreciate maybe the sum of the sentiment
behind that, the sensitivity, because it's not unjustified.

Speaker 26 (01:59:32):
Here's what happened to me last Wednesday. I saluted Washington
Redskins owner Daniel Snyder for his new charity, the Washington
Redskins Original Americans Foundation, which some have called an obvious
attempt to win over Native Americans because it only uses
the term Redskins once in its name. Anyway, I was
so inspired by Nan Snyder's charitable outreach that I formed

(01:59:55):
my own charity, the Ching Chong Ding Dong Foundation for
Sensitivity to Orientals or whatever.

Speaker 9 (02:00:02):
That was Wednesday.

Speaker 26 (02:00:04):
Then around seven o'clock on Thursday, my network's promotional Twitter
account at Colbert Rapport twitted the name of my foundation
without providing a video link to the original segment or
mentioning that I was inspired by the Redskins charity. I mean,
who would have thought a means of communication limited to
one hundred and forty characters would ever create misunderstanding?

Speaker 9 (02:00:26):
Then after that, after that.

Speaker 26 (02:00:28):
When the twit hit the fan, the brain trust over
at my network took the tweet down, because that's how
the Internet works. You can just take stuff down and
no one will ever know what happened. Just ask Mari Wiener. Now,
I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus here,

(02:00:48):
mostly because I don't go that close to public transportation.
But when I saw the tweet with no context, I
understood how people were offended the same way I, as
an Irish American, was offended after reading only one line
of Jonathan Swift's a modest proposal, I mean, eat Irish babies.
Hashtag cancel Swift trend it.

Speaker 23 (02:01:09):
Now.

Speaker 26 (02:01:16):
Now, all of this was started by a hashtag activist
or hashtivist who has been viciously attacked on Twitter. And
if anyone is doing that for me, I want you
to stop right now. She's just speaking her mind, and
that's what Twitter's for, as well as ruining the ending
of every show I haven't seen Yet now, to recap,

(02:01:39):
a web editor i've never met posts a tweet in
my name on an account I don't control, outrage is
a hashtag activist and the news media gets seventy two
hours of content.

Speaker 3 (02:01:51):
The system worked.

Speaker 9 (02:01:53):
And again though, this goes back to that point of
the fact that this is a child responding to an
issue without really thinking through and the people hating on
her children. And you know, adults can have these discussions
and examine these things, and Eli isn't in that vein
of where the adults are talking about it. He's in
the children's vein. So what does he do with this

(02:02:14):
bright bar piece. He goes running to his Facebook page,
posting it, blasting it out on the Green and Fano
Facebook page with the title no more Social Justice Warriors.
Read the article below and like if you agree that
this needs to stop. He's effectively turning the social justice

(02:02:39):
warriors into a political cause that people need to rally against. Effectively,
what he's asking his supporters to do is engage in slacktivism,
the very thing that he claims he's criticizing. The slacktivists
aka the activists who out there in the Amazon trying

(02:03:02):
to do something about the issue. I mean, this guy's
politics is so fucking befuddled. In his desperate attempt to
market a two year old movie, he's appealing to game
agates who begrudgingly accept them even though he's Jewish. He's
amplifying neo Nazis.

Speaker 3 (02:03:20):
But that's the most disturbing part of this, you know,
is that by amplifying Milo's work in that way and
validating Milo's work in that way, they're validating his readership.
They're validating the people who are reading his stuff and
getting worked into a frenzy and who are tweeting this
all over the place, and who are going, yeah, fucking Sjw's,

(02:03:42):
you know, fuck those guys. And it's really like, it's
really bizarre because it's like, now we're getting into a
territory where you are working to promote the people who
are going to who actually want to do harm. And
that's what's back link to me is how how is
Eliroth using the marketing power of his name, of the

(02:04:06):
name of his film, and all the esteem that he
has built for himself. He's using all of that to
sell movie tickets to bigots, and that should disturb anyone.

Speaker 9 (02:04:18):
So given the fact that the horror press failed yet
again to respond effectively to any kind of cultural relevance
of the horror genre, or do any real workers journalists,
I did something what none of them seemingly did. I
reached out to Amazon Watch to ask them about the petition.
And I have to say it wasn't It wasn't exactly.

(02:04:40):
I did a bit of work, you know, which is
ironic being an ex horror journalist.

Speaker 3 (02:04:45):
Yeah, I thought, I thought, you hung up the guns.

Speaker 9 (02:04:47):
And I'll tell you it wasn't exactly easy. I had
to sort of write numerous emails, make numerous phone calls,
make numerous tweets before I got any kind of response
at all. The first thing I got was a statement
on Twitter, and they said Amazon Watch is not affiliated
with this petition. We have not formally released any statement

(02:05:11):
about the film. Now, of course that's on Twitter. Something
about the language. Actually suspected that Amazon Watch was somehow
implicated in the petition because they're saying we haven't formally
released any statement facial. Yeah, so they're not saying that
isn't an Amazon what statement. They're saying it's not a
formal Amazon Watch statement. So I'm thinking like two things

(02:05:34):
at this point, oh, three things.

Speaker 2 (02:05:36):
Whatever.

Speaker 9 (02:05:37):
Somewhere somebody affiliated with Amazon Watch either made the petition
and the group didn't want to have anything to do
with it, or Eli has taken a statement they made
to him and fed it to the marketing people and
they've ran with the petition. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:05:54):
Yeah, we were thinking at one point that it was
like like Amazon Watched like contacted my Roth or the
production office privately and said, you know, hey, here's our
here's how we feel about your movie. Or they sent
him a letter, you know, outlining their concerns about the film,
and that that's where they got this this verbiage from them,

(02:06:14):
you know, and and so it kind of thickened the plot, right,
it's like, oh my goodness, this is you know, sort
of taking another turn.

Speaker 9 (02:06:19):
Also, there was an update on the petition that was
sort of modified a couple of times. Initially, it said,
to clear up any confusion, this quotation and petition is
not an official statement by Amazon Watch. This petition is
created by individual activists to bring the social awareness of
this film. Now, after I reached out to Amazon Watching,

(02:06:42):
they made that statement. That update was modified slightly to
include the phrase. Although this quote does come from their
comment regarding the film. It is not an official statement. Clearly,
whoever is behind that petition is in content with Amazon Watch.
There's a dialogue. There's a dialogue happening behind the scenes.

(02:07:06):
So at this point I think we can safely rule
out that it's a game Agate hoax because they simply
wouldn't have any kind of private conversations. We don't know
who started the petition, but clearly Amazon Watch trying to
negotiate disclaimers behind the scenes, whether it's with Eli's marketing
or a rogue affiliate of the organization. Right, there was

(02:07:29):
another update there that largely reprinted a huge section of
an article from another website. The website is Native Max
magazine and Indigenous website, and it was promoted as an
update with the title why we should boycott this film?
But if you click through, the title of the article

(02:07:50):
wasn't that at all. It says, from Tiger Lily to
Green and Ferno, why Indigenous representation in the media matters,
and it proceeds to take issue with Eli's ideas. So
a couple of things here. First of all, that completely
violates Eli's earlier asation in this magazine article that the

(02:08:12):
only people who will worry about the depiction of Indigenous
people are overly concerned North Americans who want to appear concent.

Speaker 3 (02:08:20):
Yeah, it's overly concerned actual Indigenous people who are actually
concerned about how they're going to be portrayed in the
actual media. It's quite fascinating really.

Speaker 9 (02:08:32):
That article was written by a journalist named Johnny J.
So I reached out again doing something more none of
the work, none of the Horror press even thought to do,
and said, hey, can you give me some insight onto
that petition? Do you know about it? Are you involved
in it? What's the story? And I got an email
back she said, and it's a woman. She said. It
could very well be a marketing ploy, as no one

(02:08:55):
from the petition emailed or reached out to me, which
is odd considering the extensive use of my article. I
am on the bord of the nonprofit Not Your Mascots
and we are currently working with Amazon Watch on this
particular issue, and we have associates in Peru who were
looking into the film production as there are very strict

(02:09:17):
laws regarding contact with Indigenous people in certain areas, particularly
the Cougar Pekori, Nahoa Nanti Reserve. I'm sure I massacred that,
but I've never seen that written before. We're also looking
into what pre and aftercare was provided for the village,
since eli Roth made it very clear that they made

(02:09:38):
sure medical attention was available for their crew and actors,
but no mention of what was provided for the village.
It's awesome you mentioned Black Lives Matters because in a
recent promo for Green Inferno, they did mark Native Lives
Matter and Indigenous Lives Matters, two tags Thatatives are using

(02:10:01):
to discuss police brutality, the violation of treaty rights, the
murdered and missing Indigenous women, the attack on the Native
school children in South Dakota, as well as the genocide
and force relocation of Indigenous tribes in the Amazon.

Speaker 3 (02:10:19):
It's unbelievable.

Speaker 9 (02:10:21):
So we both thought that that was just a riff
on Black Lives Matter, but their real hashtags being used
by Indigenous people to discuss real life shit. Murde it, genocide,
force relocation, little more severe than people fucking with your
video games. You know what I mean.

Speaker 27 (02:10:40):
You don't like these TV shows, you don't like these movies,
you don't like these video games, you don't like these comics.

Speaker 25 (02:10:44):
You don't like this music, you'll like any of the stuff.
Don't just leave, just go away. Were listening to it,
quit reading it, quit playing it. Just put the shit
down and shut the fuck up.

Speaker 3 (02:10:55):
Right right here and here he is putting their hashtags
up and basically encouraging the kind of people who are
the type to go on those hashtags and post a
bunch of absolute shit because that's their mo That what
these people do. It's absolutely stunning that here we are
having a marketing campaign that is openly, openly putting out

(02:11:18):
there these hashtags for people to subvert and abuse. It's amazing.

Speaker 9 (02:11:22):
And at this point I'm thinking, Okay, Eli doesn't know
these are real indigenous hashtags, because now he's not just
lampooning slacktivists. It's gone waste than confusing slacktivists with activists.
Now he's going right to the very people themselves who
are affected by these issues.

Speaker 3 (02:11:40):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's it cuts down another level deeper
where now it's not just activists. Now it's just indigenous
people with twitters, you know, who want to talk about
their issues that he's going to go after. Now, you know,
those are the people. We really need to, you know,
hold their feet to the fire and make sure they're
hell to account for all their crimes against society, let

(02:12:03):
me tell you.

Speaker 9 (02:12:03):
And the astonishing thing is in all of this, Eli
isn't trying to get us to empathize with the genocide,
the mid of the missing children, the rape, the false relocation,
the exploitation of indigenous lens. He wants us to feel
sorry for the fucking video game is you didn't get
to see Elijah Douscu's tits in Wrong Tin. That's his

(02:12:26):
big social cause that he wants people to hit like
on his Facebook page over the slacktivists.

Speaker 3 (02:12:32):
Free speech for tits, pre speech for tits, pre speech
for tit.

Speaker 18 (02:12:38):
So we're here with Eli Roth, director of Green Inferno,
which I'm director of producer of Green Inferno, christ and
co writer and co writer.

Speaker 7 (02:12:47):
I'm very excited to see this.

Speaker 18 (02:12:48):
I'm curious with all the experience you have in this genre,
why did this particular strange you know, Forest World Remote,
Why did that.

Speaker 5 (02:12:58):
Speak to you to write a movie that it was
about modern activism where I see a lot of people
want to care and they want to help, But in general,
I feel like people don't really want to inconvenience their
own lives. And I saw a lot of people just
reacting to things on social media.

Speaker 3 (02:13:13):
You see this.

Speaker 5 (02:13:14):
Social justice warriors like this is wrong, this is wrong,
this is wrong, and they're just tweeting and retweeting.

Speaker 3 (02:13:18):
They're not actually doing anything.

Speaker 5 (02:13:19):
Or you see people that get involved in a cause
that they don't really know a lot about and they
go crazy about it. So I wanted to make a
movie about kids like that. I think there's a lot
of great things obviously about activism. People commit their lives
to it. But I wanted to make a story about
kids that don't really know what they're getting into, get
in way over their heads it actually works. And then
on the way home, the iron is they're plane crashes
and the very people they saved think that they're invaders

(02:13:41):
and just dart them and eat them and make them
the food supply the village.

Speaker 18 (02:13:45):
So green Inferno is your reaction to the sjaw's of Twitter.

Speaker 5 (02:13:49):
Yeah, my green Inferno. I actually wrote it, and when
I finished the draft, Cony twenty twelve happened.

Speaker 12 (02:13:53):
I was like, this is it?

Speaker 3 (02:13:54):
Like everyone is going what's wrong with you?

Speaker 5 (02:13:56):
They're drinking with their mugs going like you don't you
care about child out soldiers and kids being raped?

Speaker 3 (02:14:01):
Like how can you not tweet this video?

Speaker 15 (02:14:03):
This?

Speaker 5 (02:14:03):
Everyone got so self righteous and try like publicly shaming,
and it was something that they hadn't heard of twenty
four hours ago.

Speaker 3 (02:14:10):
So I think it's a double edged sword, you know.

Speaker 5 (02:14:12):
I think there are ways to get involved and ways
to be helpful, but the SJW culture has gotten so
out of control that you feel like everyone are they
doing it because they believe in it or they just
want to look like good people?

Speaker 15 (02:14:24):
You know?

Speaker 5 (02:14:24):
Are people retweeting things because they think it's important or
because they want everybody to think that they're a caring person.
So and I'm not, you know, making a judgment about
these people either way. I'm just making a comment on it.

Speaker 18 (02:14:35):
So I want to they do get eaten by cannibal
They get eaten by cannibals?

Speaker 3 (02:14:38):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 9 (02:14:39):
But finally on Wednesday, after waiting a couple of days
after they promised to get back to me, they did
promise to get back to me on the Wednesday, but
that was on Monday, so I had to wait for
two days while they put together a statement. Again, making
me realize there was a lot more behind the scenes
than I realized. I finally get an email of Amazon Watch,

(02:15:01):
and this is where the incredible confluence of chonosity that
is jungle Gate becomes really apparent.

Speaker 3 (02:15:14):
I mean, before we go too much further, would you
have expected this, like at the outset, was this even
a possibility that you considered?

Speaker 9 (02:15:23):
Well, it was it was that this email. I'll read
the email because it was really what we discovered after
reading the email. That's what kind of blew our minds, right,
But we're definitely getting closer to the heart of jungle Gate,
the horror, The horror, Hi Stewart correct. Amazon Watch has
not formally released a statement about this film. We are

(02:15:45):
in the process of consulting with all our indigenous partners.
Once we have completed meeting with them and collecting their statements,
Amazon Watch will release a formal comment. We are a
small NGO that supports indigenous rights and protect the Amazon rainforest.
Empowering indigenous peoples is the scientifically proven way to preserve

(02:16:09):
the Amazon basin, which is so important to regulating the
health of our global climate. Studies have shown that if
we grant legal rights of ancestral territories back to indigenous peoples,
they will defend their land and thus preserve the Amazon Basin.
Honoring and respecting the rights of Indigenous peoples is of

(02:16:31):
the utmost importance, as their voices are often marginalized and
go unheard in modern society. As a human rights and
environmental organization, our primary function is to accurately reflect the
perspectives and opinions of our indigenous partners. Therefore, it is
imperative that we meet with our indigenous partners before releasing

(02:16:56):
a formal statement, let alone a petition. As you can imagine,
most of our partners live in the rainforest and sometimes
it can take a while to communicate with them. So
thank you for your patients. Well, first of all, don't
they know Indigenous people are going to care about this?
Are you kidding me? It's only North Americans who want

(02:17:16):
to appear concerned. They are going to be concerned about this.
And she goes on to say that said, having worked
with Indigenous peoples for nearly twenty years, Amazon Watch tends
to have an accurate idea of Indigenous perspectives on numerous issues.
From our research about Roth's film, we have gathered a
general idea of what the film represents, and from what

(02:17:39):
we know, our organization does not condone nor support this film.
I believe the confusion with this Change dot org petition,
which is in no way associated with Amazon Watch, began
on Instagram. Eli Roth commented erroneously that Amazon Watch had

(02:18:06):
seen and did support his film. Amazon Watch responded to
his statement because it was untrue and was causing confusion
amongst our supporters. This thread occurred on at American Indian
fourteen ninety one's account, and I believe the creator of

(02:18:28):
the petition is at Society Menace, although for whatever reason,
that person seems to have deleted that account and is
now operating privately under at Society Menace two. I'm unsure
why the petition is anonymous, but I don't think it's
a marketing scheme. I have requested multiple times that the

(02:18:50):
creator remove mention of Amazon Watch, but they have yet
to adjust the text. I have also contacted Change requesting
the removal of the misattribution to our organization as it
is causing an overload of press inquiries, obviously not from
the horror community that are taxing on our capacity as

(02:19:16):
we are a small NGO. With limited capacity. Hope that
clarifies things. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Thanks Jessica. So now what do we do with this information?
We descend upon Instagram We ran, I mean, you know,
virtually ran, like a cannibal descended on an SJW.

Speaker 3 (02:19:41):
Exactly, man, exactly.

Speaker 9 (02:19:43):
But hang on a second. If the sjw's are the
indigenous people, then who are the cannibals? Are the cannibals
the sjw's.

Speaker 3 (02:19:50):
Are they eating themselves?

Speaker 9 (02:19:54):
Eli's point is much more clever than we have a thought.

Speaker 3 (02:19:57):
So metaphysical. It's so metaphysical, very impressed.

Speaker 9 (02:20:01):
It's a theme within a theme within a theme.

Speaker 3 (02:20:03):
It's like inception.

Speaker 9 (02:20:05):
It's conceptual. It's like Shia Lahbouf. It's brilliant. It's like,
get the social get the anti social justice warriors to
turn them into slacktivists on your Facebook page. It's fucking genius.
It's conceptual arts.

Speaker 3 (02:20:18):
And then we'll have the cannibals eat themselves. And because
they're really the sjw's, because they don't want to be
perceived badly. It's amazing. It's like it's like a snake
eating its own tail. Just over and over and over again.
It's beautiful.

Speaker 9 (02:20:32):
So we go over to Instagram. We dig up at
Amma Indian fourteen ninety one, who seems to be a
hugely popular native person there with a massive following on Instagram,
and he wrote this statement. He said, asshole of the
Week is writer and director of this racist stereotype of

(02:20:53):
the uncivilized savage Indian movie by Eli Roth. Summary bunch
of why people are heading to the Amazon in their
private jet to play white Savior when all of a sudden,
the plane goes crashing down in the middle of the
Amazon rainforest. An unknown tribe then starts to hunt them
down and begins to commit human cannibalism. All this movie

(02:21:15):
will do is dehumanize people who are really ones being
hunted down by oil companies. They are the ones being
killed every day by oil companies and the government that
backs them up. They are the organization trying to help
protect the Amazon people from these evil corporations. They need
all the help they can get. With a movie like this,

(02:21:36):
people will take this as factual and truly believe Amazon
Indians are savages and uncivilized, which can't be fair from
the truth. Again, this is what we talked about before,
the sort of colonial representation of local tribes as hopelessly
barbaric to help fuel imperialist conquests.

Speaker 3 (02:21:57):
We have to civilize them, We have to make them
civilized people.

Speaker 9 (02:22:01):
Thousands of people go to the Amazon every year to
meet these beautiful people, are people that still live with
nature as one. They go there to get away from
the so called civilized will, to get peace and clarity.
Yet they are always discriminated against, dehumanized, and this movie
won't help any of that. Thanks for being a douce,
Eli Roth and any like hashtags like a million Native

(02:22:26):
groups who are reading this stuff and responding to this stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:22:30):
Yeah, yeah, and again keep in mind real you know
Native movements, right like real indigenous people, real involved Native activists,
you know, not your your you know, tight gene wearing
hipster slacktivist.

Speaker 9 (02:22:51):
And incredibly who shows up to put his foot in
his mouth in classic Eli Roth fashion. No, no, then
Eli himself.

Speaker 3 (02:23:01):
Can't take criticism, not even on Instagram, not even from
you know. And let's face it, I mean, we said
this guy's a lot of followers, and he does, but really,
let's face it, it's a relatively obscure indigenous group. You know,
it's a relatively obscure indigenous activist, and here's Eli Roth,
unable to take any sort of criticism whatsoever. He's got

(02:23:23):
to jump in there just so you're away.

Speaker 9 (02:23:25):
We've shown the movie to Amazon Watch and they loved that.
It's completely on the side of the villagers and points
out everything you're saying. We're going to work with them
through the entire promotion of the film to help moviegoers
direct their energy and resources to the groups who are

(02:23:49):
waking to protect uncontacted tribes from oil companies. My film
is Awake of fiction. It's a parable, but that doesn't
mean we can't use it as a platform to educate
and help people understand way to get involved and how
to help.

Speaker 3 (02:24:08):
Yeah, which is like, that's a decent statement.

Speaker 9 (02:24:11):
Sadly none of it's true. A. As we know, Amazon
Watch didn't see the movie, they don't support it. They
fucking hate the movie. And two go on, what Eli's
he's not driving attention to these issues. He's retweeting angry
twenty year old video gamers who want to see tits.

Speaker 27 (02:24:28):
you don't like these video games. You don't like these comics,
you don't like this music, you don't like any of
the stuff, then just leave, just go away. Quire listening
to it, quit reading it, quit playing it. Just put
the shit down and shut the fuck up.

Speaker 3 (02:24:43):
But here's the important thing to keep in mind. Do
this confrontation on Instagram happened about a month ago. It
happened before the current SJW movie poster and this current
anti SJW marketing angle. So this kind of puts it
even more interesting spin on things, and even more interesting

(02:25:06):
really is what happens next, because Emmerindian is so gracious,
He's so like, I can't believe Elyros showed up and
said something, and so he's just really gracious and apologetic,
like I'm sorry I called you names, and I'm going
to give you the benefit of doubt. It's really stotic.
So you know, go ahead and just just sort.

Speaker 9 (02:25:25):
Of well, I'll jump ahead, because there is a great
back and forth between the two of them, but I
don't want to read the whole thing, but they go
back and forth. They're talking about you know, he's putting
his view basically, amplifying and elaborating on the whole problem
and Eli Roth's jumping in and I think what really
one over Ammerindian is when Eli Roth name dropped Amazon

(02:25:47):
Watch and said, listen, you haven't seen the film. They've
seen the film, they loved the film.

Speaker 3 (02:25:52):
Yeah, they support it.

Speaker 9 (02:25:53):
And he's like, okay, well wait a minute. Maybe And
this is before the marketing too, like the post and everything.
So at this point Amerindian's given him the benefit of
the dout gone Okay, maybe there's something going on. There's
a more to your film that meets the eye. But
he does take issue with this whole the depiction of
Indigenous people as ruthless savages.

Speaker 3 (02:26:15):
The hell is that? No, I swear that was like
a richeralistic punishment for a tough That's what it is.

Speaker 4 (02:26:22):
Just sit back and enjoy the show because afterwards he's
going to take us to the village. That punishment is
considered a divine commandment. If she had not killed her,

(02:26:43):
the tribe would have killed him.

Speaker 9 (02:26:45):
So who shows up to the party? Amazon watched themselves
via their Instagram account.

Speaker 3 (02:27:00):
I love this.

Speaker 9 (02:27:00):
This is just so amazing.

Speaker 3 (02:27:03):
This is the beauty of the internet now right, like,
this is the beauty of the Internet.

Speaker 9 (02:27:07):
As a privileged white male gringo, you are doing exactly
what you claim to be warning of by depicting Indigenous
people so offensively and inaccurately in this film. If you
portrayed black people this way, would you consider that less offensive?
Or how about Jewish people? The indigenous communities are NGO

(02:27:30):
partners with in the Amazon would be offended and embarrassed
if they saw how grossly inaccurate you've depicted their heritage.

Speaker 3 (02:27:41):
Listen to those sjw's and.

Speaker 9 (02:27:44):
Then they go on to say that very quote that
was then taken out of the context of this Instagram
conversation and used as the main mission statement for that
change dot org petition.

Speaker 3 (02:28:00):
We finally see where this Amazon watch statement originated from,
and we see why they were reluctant to say it
was a formal statement, right. That's why they were cagey
about their language about it, because they knew they'd said it.
It just they didn't say it in any sort of
official capacity. It was an Instagram comment.

Speaker 9 (02:28:20):
And they had nothing to do with the petition. So
what happened was either what looks to have happened is
like a supporter of Amerindian Yes Society menace just following
the conversation, because all sorts of people are chiming any
this isn't just between Eli Amazon and Amerindians. Yeah, people commented, basically,
poor Eli's being eaten alive by the savage cannibals that

(02:28:43):
are the Indigenous people who take issue with this film.

Speaker 3 (02:28:47):
Yeah, it's pretty amazing, Like it's that whole thread is
basically just an Indigenous people taken around out of Eli
Roth and calling him a puto, and like it's pretty amazing,
amazing to watch.

Speaker 9 (02:29:01):
And the irony is he thinks he's making a film
that's a satire about people jumping into political issues they
don't understand. And yet clearly Eli Roth has jumped into
a political issue he has no understanding of. So I
only have one thing to say to Eli. Physician, heal thyself.

Speaker 8 (02:29:22):
Let's play doctor.

Speaker 3 (02:29:25):
It's easy. I'll be the doctor and you be the patient,
and you pretend like you're sick and I'll examine you.

Speaker 14 (02:29:32):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (02:29:32):
Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And what I love too is
that how he comes back out and says, oh, we're well,
don't worry, we're announcing a partnership with an Amazon rights group,
not Amazon watched some other Amazon.

Speaker 9 (02:29:46):
Rights Well, I'll read the statement immediately after then Amazon
Watch said our organization does not support this film, but
there's a gross offense to our Indigenous partners. And Eli
Roth comes back and says, we are soon announcing a
partnership with an Amazon rights group, but it is not
Amazon Watch. I apologize I was misinformed. I'm still waiting

(02:30:08):
for that partnership. Have you had anything about this partnership?

Speaker 3 (02:30:11):
Not a people.

Speaker 9 (02:30:12):
We can all argue over social media, but the reality is,
again it's just a way of dismissing them. We can
all argue over social media. Well where else are you
gonna have this fucking argument with indigenous people? Motherfucker. They
weren't at the film festival. They don't work for the
horror press, who are reprinting your bullshit without critically evaluating it.
Where the fuck do you think you're gonna have this argument.

Speaker 3 (02:30:34):
It's not like these people have talk shows, you know something.

Speaker 9 (02:30:37):
Yeah, they don't have it. Well they do, but nobody
watches those networks. There is an Aboriginal news network or
well it's very.

Speaker 3 (02:30:44):
True, but I mean he's not going out and trying
to trying to court conversation in those arenas, you know,
he's provoking them. Even when he says he's trying, he's
not going to provoke them, he proceeds to then provoke
them in the most asinine way possible.

Speaker 9 (02:31:01):
It's amazing, absolutely so now we know that that poster
there wasn't just cluelessness. It was a direct fuck you,
not just to like the sgws who are gonna complain,
but the very people themselves, the very indigenous people using
these groups to discuss rape, murder, the absolute dehumanization of

(02:31:22):
their culture, the things that when they see reflected in
his film, these gross like media representations that further perpetuate
this sort of lack of prominence in a culture and
diminish their voice. They're taking issue with that, and he's saying, yeah,
well fuck you, here's more of it, because guess what,
you're gonna attack me on Instagram. You're gonna rip me

(02:31:42):
to pieces on Instagram. Well, guess what I can summon
a force, a wrath far greater than you, guys. And
that's what sent him running to the four chan gam
agate world to bring that level of reactionary vitriol to
drown out any squeaks of protest. This is like him

(02:32:03):
taking that anti homophobia rantin Fangoria to a whole high
marketing conceptual level.

Speaker 12 (02:32:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:32:12):
Absolutely, I mean, if you want to imagine it. I mean,
here is Roth up on his sort of podium, you know,
ranting about you know, political correctness and all this other stuff.
And the the four chan, eight chan, gamer Gate anti
SJW crew are like the the guys in the jack boots,
you know, kind of all lined up around the base

(02:32:34):
of the podium waiting for the troublemakers to start up
and they'll descend upon them.

Speaker 20 (02:32:39):
You know.

Speaker 3 (02:32:39):
That's how these guys operate in thunder.

Speaker 11 (02:32:44):
Park.

Speaker 9 (02:32:45):
Nor to Dan, so let me finish his statement. He

(02:33:16):
goes on to say, so we can argue over social media,
but the reality is the film will be in release
and I Am going to use the release platform to
raise awareness for all these issues. So hear this, Bright,
but hear this gam Agate, hear this, Cybertroopers. He's not
your poster boy. He's not making a film to go
after the bloody social justice warriors. He's secretly doing it

(02:33:40):
to go after the oil companies and all the He's
doing it to support indigenous rights issues. That's supposedly, what
he's saying here his agenda, but as we all know,
he just twists with the wind. Put him in a
room full of indigenous people. He's against the oil companies.
We said that as a joke before, but actually it

(02:34:01):
is exactly what he did here.

Speaker 12 (02:34:04):
It is right.

Speaker 9 (02:34:05):
He'll just sell his crap to anybody.

Speaker 3 (02:34:08):
It's absolutely amazing that here he is saying, hey, listen,
you know this movie supports this, and I want to
use the message of this film to help elevate your voices,
and then a scant month later start marketing to the
very people who want to ensure these voices never get heard.

Speaker 9 (02:34:27):
I mean, it's so, it's so so my bendingley fucked.
I can't sorry, I got to finish his statement. It's
hard to get through without just going like holy fuck.
But let's try to get through his words. So he says,
I don't expect everyone to support it, but right now
everyone is judging from a trailer and a poster, which

(02:34:48):
I understand. I'm not going to antagonize anyone. I'll just
put hashtags on my poster as a big fuck you.
I won't antagonize anyone to create. Well, let's finished to
create some controversy for the film, because that doesn't address
what's really happening. What's really happening, Eli, you want to
tell us slacktivists, right, the ones going to the Amazon

(02:35:11):
political correctness, lack of tits, So what's really happening. Nearly
the entire crew and cast were Peruvian and Chilean. Everyone
believes in the film's message. Really, everyone believes in the
film's message. The film doesn't have a fucking message. That's
the That's what we've really gotten to the heart of.

(02:35:31):
We haven't even seen the film when we can tell
you're so confused. You're all over the place. You're contradicting
yourself in the concept of the film and everything you've
said about the film and every way you've tried to
market this film has been hypocritical, contradictory, and fucking clueless, dude,
absolutely fucking clueless.

Speaker 3 (02:35:50):
I mean it's really depressing. But the message of the
movie seems to be whatever he needs the message of
the movie to be in order to you know, sort
of criticism, right. So you know, if it's natives coming
at him, it's no, no, I support you guys. And
if it's the free speech crowd coming at him saying, Hey,
how come you're giving into those natives.

Speaker 2 (02:36:10):
It's like, a, I don't want that.

Speaker 3 (02:36:11):
I don't like those natives. I hate those slacktivists. You know,
it's whatever he needs to be at.

Speaker 9 (02:36:16):
The time he'll be president of the United States. You
realize that, like, this is a guy who was like
banging around film festivals a few years ago with Cavin Fever.
I know people who hung out with him, and I
heard a lot of stories about him through those networks.
But he went very quickly from Cavin Fever to just
a hop, Skip and a Jump, a big, massive blockbuster
horror movie with Hostel and then a Hop, Skip and

(02:36:39):
a Jumpanese on screen and a Quentin Tarantino film with
Brad Pitt. And when they promoted the movie a can,
they had this gigantic like poster with Brad Pitt's face
on one side of a building. On the other side
it was Eli Roth. Yeah, yeah, he was huge. What's
going on? He's just like gone from like a dude
to this gigantic like pop culture figure overnight. I'm telling

(02:37:04):
you he's gonna be.

Speaker 3 (02:37:05):
President, president of horror Nation.

Speaker 9 (02:37:07):
Maybe, well, he was already president of Horrornation, self appointed
right after Hostel went big, or he became the spokesperson
for the genre.

Speaker 3 (02:37:15):
Well, I'm a huge fan to be that.

Speaker 9 (02:37:16):
I think to me that he's the director that horror films.

Speaker 26 (02:37:19):
Have been waiting to come out, because it's like, you know,
it's not about getting getting on the cover of or
It's gonna be weekly.

Speaker 9 (02:37:25):
It's about getting on the cover effect Gloria all right.

Speaker 26 (02:37:28):
It's not about like, Okay, I'm gonna do a whore
for a while, then I'm gonna ditch it and do
other stuff.

Speaker 9 (02:37:31):
It's not always about horror films. Sorry, let me do
finish the statement. It's almost impossible to get through. It's
so infuriating, you know, to even read it. It was
driving me notes when I first read it. Let alone,
try to read it for people just.

Speaker 3 (02:37:44):
Keep sighing over and over again. You read a sentence
and you just have to sigh and like then rant
and get all the hate out of you and then
like read the next one. It's awful.

Speaker 9 (02:37:54):
So whatever you may think about me personally, it's fine.
Just know that I am a could. I am as
upset and horrified by what's going on and simply how
he's upset horrified. Guys, he's a fucking esg W. Exactly
do you realize that game again? What a bleaan heart

(02:38:16):
liberal you've made into your post, boy, and he's Jewish.
Just know that I am as.

Speaker 28 (02:38:24):
Upset horrified by what's going on, and simply have a
different way of getting the message out to a younger
generation who may not be aware of the indigenous rights
problems in the Amazon.

Speaker 9 (02:38:41):
It's fucking unbelievable, man. This is jungle Gate. When he
decided to do a hashtag jungle gate, what was he
expecting people going to do with that? That's nothing jungle
Gate does not. This is the jungle Gate, the phony petition,
the bullshit, the conversation on Instagram with Native people, despite
that informed your marketing after this happened, The big giant

(02:39:04):
fuck you to the Native people that tore you the
shreds in this fucking exchange. Horror films historically have always
done this. You might not like it, and that's fine,
but if we want to have a productive discussion that
can educate the general public, I'm all for it. Bickering
on social media is not the best approach for any

(02:39:26):
of this to rarely reach people. No, you know what
is the best approach. Ignore those people, fucking entirely sell
your bullshit to a pathetic horror press who don't question
the sources, don't take into account the point of view
of the people who are actually being fucking marginalized and
discriminated against potentially with your representation. All right, just shut

(02:39:49):
them out of the fucking way. Then we can have
a nice discussion where it's you, your idiotic lemming like
cyber trooper, fucking slacktivists, hit like on your anti SJW campaigns.
That's the discussion you want, Eli, I don't see anything
outside of those very narrow parameters. Nothing is being channeled

(02:40:12):
into your world other than that agenda that we have
deconstructed and analyzed. Please prove us wrong, show us some tangible,
tangible sensibility on your part, that you have an instinct
and a sensitivity and a compassion for these people, like
you said in that statement, because they all fucking hate you.

Speaker 3 (02:40:34):
He says he wants to have this productive discussion, and
then less than a month later he's directly antagonizing those people.

Speaker 9 (02:40:43):
Mocking them, ridiculing them. And like I said, I thought
it was clueless. But it's so vindictive, Yeah, and amplifying
real bigots, you know, it's so Yeah, it's crazy. So
right off the bat, it's going to bring back the
Cannibal movie. He knows people are going to kind of
have a problem with the political incorrectness of it, so

(02:41:04):
we'll demonize those people in the film. Then it gets
kind of out of hand. Now native groups themselves are
ripping him to pieces. So what is he going to do?
Demonize them, make a mockery out of their causes, make
a mockery out of their hashtags that they're using to
discuss issues that are relevant to the subjugation of their people,

(02:41:24):
and then go on their fucking Instagram and pretend he's
like on their side and he's all concerned, he's all sensitive.
I didn't expect to get this irritated reading this stuff,
but it's just like, man, I'm just so sick of
the bulls. I'm sick of the whole failure of the
culture to even respond to a shred of like critical
fucking thought.

Speaker 3 (02:41:44):
And again, where is the environmental education? Where where is
this Like, Hey, I acknowledge you're facing these issues. Why
is he not amplifying the voices of these natives. I mean,
could he not, like, is it not possible for him
to release this like very exploitive cannibal film that obviously,

(02:42:04):
I mean, you can't make a cannibal film and not
depict indigenous people in a poor light, right, But.

Speaker 9 (02:42:10):
There's no reason, Well hang on a sec that, you know.
I don't know a lot about cannibalism in North America
and South American indigenous tribes. I do believe it existed,
and there were two forms that I have read about.
One is endo cannibalism, which is an interesting practice of

(02:42:30):
eating the dead as a way of honoring the dead.

Speaker 15 (02:42:33):
Right.

Speaker 9 (02:42:33):
I imagine if we practice that in this culture, your
grandmother that was like, oh my god, we got to
eat and today, oh my god, you know, and then
there'd be like people in your family, don't worry, I know,
just the right like spices put on that made. But
apparently in endo cannibalism, and this isn't just South American tribes.

(02:42:56):
This has happened in different cultures over the globe. It's
just a different conception of how to honor the dead.
They eat everything, every part of the body, the bones,
the feces, so I don't really know too much about it,
so I'm not pretending to be an expert about it.
There's another form of cannibalism, which is a retribution style cannibalism,

(02:43:16):
which is a way of punishing people who've transgressed, and
maybe that's what Eli's channeling. I have heard him say
that everything depicted in the film, as far as the cannibalism,
was based on some sort of tribal act that he'd
read about. So again, in all of this, we do
have to, you know, really make a firm point that

(02:43:40):
we haven't seen the film, Like, even if the film
is fantastic and actually does reveal a progressive view which
the brake Bark guys won't like, you know, no matter
at this point, no matter which way Eli is gonna go,
he's either gonna piss off the brake Bark guys and
the people intoard of his anti sjaw stants with the

(02:44:02):
film if it comes out, or he's going to piss
off the Native people who feel like it's a terrible
depiction of their culture and also doesn't really address the
social issues. Or maybe his film's trying to play favorites
with everybody, because that's the mixed messages I'm getting. I
think what it illustrates as a guy who never really
conceptually thought this stuff through and has been like painted

(02:44:23):
himself into a corner and has been just flailing brutally
ever since.

Speaker 3 (02:44:30):
Well, you know, I think in twenty fifteen, if you're
setting out to make like an exploitation cannibal film, you're
trying to do something that's homage to, you know, Cannibal
Holocaust and these very extreme pieces of cinema. You know,
you you probably have to balance that out a bit.

(02:44:50):
The film will be extreme and antagonistic itself. So does
the marketing need to be extreme, antagonist and antagonistic, or
or could the marketing actually be something that is educational
and progressive in something that says, hey, this film is
a work of fantasy, and it's an homage to films

(02:45:12):
that were made during a time where we had, frankly,
you know, some less evolved ideas about these sorts of things.

Speaker 9 (02:45:20):
Well you're saying that, you're saying that, but actually, if
you think back now, Cannibal Holocaust is looking infinitely more
progressive than how Green and Right, The Monsters, the True Monsters,
and Cannibal Holocaust Twitter is in a little you know,
people like winging on Twitter like they are supposedly in
Elis film. The true monsters is Western culture is absolutely

(02:45:44):
Western imperialist domination of the region, you know what I mean.
That's the hideous force that is dealt with. And there
is a cannibal retribution act. Absolutely, when the cannibals rip
those white guys to shreds, you never feel like, oh
the cannibals are horrible, they did something wrong. You feel

(02:46:04):
like you're on the side of the me. Yeah, I
rip those guys to shreds. Man, they just ripped the
pot of tat or for sport. You know, let's put
these guys out of their misery. I'm not speaking as
a scientist, but as the man in the street.

Speaker 27 (02:46:17):
This so called documentary footage is offensive, it is dishonest,
and above all, it is inhuman.

Speaker 29 (02:46:24):
Yes, yes, of course we all know what Alan was like.

Speaker 9 (02:46:29):
You overdid it as usual, but what you saw.

Speaker 24 (02:46:32):
Is a rough cut.

Speaker 3 (02:46:33):
Perhaps I haven't made myself clear, but I I refuse
to have anything to do with this material.

Speaker 30 (02:46:41):
Look, professor, we are talking about the most sensational documentary
to come along in years. But you want us just
to shelve it, to forget about it as if it
had never been found.

Speaker 29 (02:46:51):
Is that what you want?

Speaker 3 (02:46:54):
Yes, Yes, that is precisely what I want.

Speaker 9 (02:46:58):
I've seen the rest of them, Maial.

Speaker 3 (02:47:00):
You haven't. You haven't seen this stuff that even your editors.

Speaker 27 (02:47:03):
Didn't have the stomach to put together, and if you had,
you wouldn't hesitate.

Speaker 12 (02:47:06):
But to agree with me.

Speaker 9 (02:47:08):
So finally, if anybody has any thoughts on what we're
talking about and would like to write in, please send
an email to info at Cinophobia radio dot com. If
we get enough interesting comments, perhaps we'll do a follow
up and read some of them. I think we should also,

(02:47:31):
even though I said I wasn't interested in the film,
I think in all fairness we should actually see the
film and see if there's anything that redeems how Elia
has been marketing the film, you know, and if he
feels like he's been unfairly treated with our with our
criticisms of the marketing. So hopefully it does generate some

(02:47:53):
discussion and we can all sort of learn a thing
or two.

Speaker 3 (02:47:55):
The fact that basically a couple of like nobody ex
hard journalists are the people who are picking up this
thread as opposed to you know, the big, much larger
media apparatus that people like Eli Roth are capable of
commanding is pretty disappointing. And that's why it's also important

(02:48:17):
to ask people to share this around and to create
this dialogue, because we are trying to amplify these voices
and we are trying to, you know, help this part
of the message get out as well, because this isn't
about political correctness. This is about Indigenous people, and this
is about how they feel about their portrayal, and their

(02:48:37):
voices should be heard. And I'm against Eli Roth campaigning
to stop these people from being heard and supporting people
who are going to work to stop these people from
being heard. I think that's important and hopefully listeners out
there find that important as well.

Speaker 9 (02:48:54):
I have to say that doing a little thing like
reaching out to an organization, getting some information that nobody's
bothered to look into, and then going down a couple
of little weird rabbit holes and unearthing what we on earth,
it's incredible conversation on Instagram that nobody knows about, nobody's discussing.
That's kind of like the rewards of doing journalists. It's

(02:49:17):
not about just coming up with some crappy byline on
a website that you can start blasting all over Twitter
and saying, look at me, look at me, I got
my name on a website. Look at me. I'm reprinting
a press release. Look at me. You know, it's not
about that. That's not the reward. That is evacuous, unsatisfying, masturbatory, masturbatory,

(02:49:38):
pointless exercise. If you're going to be a horror journalist,
it's not about getting free tickets to movies. It's not
about getting free swag. It's not about like bragging to
your friends or going to parties or hobnobbing with celebrities.
It's about being a fucking journalist. Be critical, evaluate these things.
But however you do it, just do the fucking job,

(02:49:59):
just the jop exactly.

Speaker 3 (02:50:01):
It's not difficult stuff. This is really really basic. Group
makes claim, journalist fact checks claim.

Speaker 9 (02:50:11):
Yeah, you know, journalism one on one. That's all we
have to say about it, folks.

Speaker 3 (02:50:15):
It's that simple.

Speaker 31 (02:50:17):
And instead of just oh my god, Eli Roth says this,
what we actually see is this wild, weird story, you know,
that takes us all these weird, interesting places on the
Internet and ends us up right here.

Speaker 12 (02:50:33):
It rests on thirteen acres of earth over the very
center of Hell. Here is the first motion picture to
offer to the daring a look into the final maddening

(02:50:55):
space between life and death. To avoid fainting, keep repeating,
sights and sounds far beyond anything you've tested. To avoid fainting,

(02:51:15):
keep repeating. Only take as much as you can.

Speaker 9 (02:51:24):
On Jungle Gates Volume three. Obviously, anyone that's seen the
Green Inferno, if you're divorce it from the marketing and
divorce it from some of the ideas that we were
alluding to in jungle Gate one and two, the film
itself is barely worth a two hundred and fifty word review,

(02:51:46):
let alone a series of podcasts dedicated to the subject.

Speaker 3 (02:51:52):
Absolutely, it's really like having seen it and you know,
being able to an now reflect on like what have
we done?

Speaker 11 (02:52:02):
What we do?

Speaker 3 (02:52:06):
But but I mean, I think the listener will will
find that there's obvious benefits to what we're talking about.

Speaker 9 (02:52:13):
That you said the listener, meaning there's only one listener.
By jungle Gate volume three, there really probably is one,
you know, the listener.

Speaker 3 (02:52:24):
You know the listeners as a body, you know, like, yes,
in general, I mean.

Speaker 9 (02:52:30):
I understand the point I'm just being playful with the summit,
but I mean, you.

Speaker 3 (02:52:35):
Know, that's that's what That's what we would hope anyway.

Speaker 9 (02:52:38):
But here's the real point of continuing to examine the story.
First of all, the marketing of the film actually did
take some interesting twists and turns after Jungle Gate two,
so it's relevant for those to come back and kind
of finish the story. If had it just come out
with no more real incidents, does not need to go
back and examine the marketing because we really put it

(02:53:00):
under the microscope sufficiently in one and two, but then
it did these crazy other moves that we've never got
to address, so we have to talk about that. But
more importantly than that, in doing all those episodes and
continuing to kind of follow the timeline of events leaning
up to the film, it really kicked up a lot
of topics, not only between private discussions that you and

(02:53:22):
I had and even discussion that I had with other people,
people who didn't really want to go public on the
record with their thoughts and reflections about what we were
talking about, but also a lot of conversations with listeners
and even people hostile to what they thought we were
trying to do. It's brought up so many larger issues

(02:53:43):
that I think this becomes really an excellent opportunity to
discuss some bigger concepts, far bigger than anything to do
with the Green Infana or Eli Roth or anything like that. Yeah,
we're still going to talk about the marketing and things
that he said, but we're going to kind of raise
it to a whole of the level, hopefully of philosophical
ideas as it relates to the horror genre and the

(02:54:06):
culture that supports the horror genre, as Eli himself claims
was his great wish with the film to spark discussion. Well,
on these episodes, we're going to have the very discussion
that Eli made this film to generate.

Speaker 3 (02:54:21):
Yeah, I mean, we're going to deliver on the promise
Eli made to everyone.

Speaker 9 (02:54:27):
That's the other thing that I want to do with
these episodes is kind of underscore how the horror press
just kind of swallows this stuff up, doesn't analyze it,
and just kind of lets it flow through. It's like
a pr marketing machine where you can literally spew anything
as contradictory and fallacy laden as it is, and nobody

(02:54:47):
is there to kind of pay attention and comment and
dissect and contextualize, and it just kind of filters through
this whole pr mechanism largely supported by a fan gushing
a press, all the websites and all the magazines, none
of them have a stuff to kind of analyze what's
actually being spoken.

Speaker 3 (02:55:07):
Yeah, there's a real sort of orthodoxy to all this
where you're not really encouraged. I mean, there's no real
benefit to doing this right because the consequences of it
might be, well, hey, I don't get you know, I
get my access cut off. You know, all of a sudden,
publicists aren't sending me things, or maybe we're not going

(02:55:29):
to get that set visit, or you know, there's always
those concerns in the way it seems, or it's very
frustrating when you want to actually write about things that
are important in this genre when the press you are
trying to do it through doesn't really have the courage

(02:55:50):
to say some of the things that it needs to
say in order to really be introspective. And that's the
real tragedy. And I think that's thing we've really this
story can really help illustrate and why that's one of
the reasons I find it extremely important. And if we
can do something with these episodes. That's definitely one of

(02:56:11):
the big objectives for me anyway.

Speaker 9 (02:56:14):
And I don't want to really get into the Spider
Baby issue because not that it's been done to death,
because again, none of these mainstream outlets ever really adequately
analyze that situation. I mean, there were a few people
that kind of stood on a high horse and said, hey,
we were unscathed by that whole incident, so therefore we
can speak critically of it, even though they've got their
own skeletons to worry about. But for me, the whole

(02:56:36):
Spider Baby thing really shone a light at how diseased
the horror culture is, and obviously that somebody could just
sort of ascend to these great heights and be propped
up by so many voices and legitimized by so many outlets,
all based on riding this wave of stolen work that

(02:56:58):
if you actually paid it tension to the wig, like
if you were an editor of a magazine and this
copy was landing on your desk, there would have been
many cues that there was something amiss with what was
being put together.

Speaker 3 (02:57:11):
They well, I mean, that was the natural next question.

Speaker 25 (02:57:14):
For me.

Speaker 3 (02:57:14):
It was It went immediately from did this happen? Which then,
you know, I read the story and I saw the
links myself, and I went, yes, it happened. And the
immediate next question on my mind is what happened? How
is it possible to have an editor who's supposed to
be the gatekeeper of this stuff and for this to

(02:57:35):
get through it? So, I mean, to me, this was
just where the story was going next, and that's where
my mind immediately went next. And I'm not sure that's
where everybody went next. Right away, it seemed to be
people had to be prompted a little bit to like, hey, guys,
remember that there's supposed to be somebody whose job it

(02:57:56):
is doing this and gatekeeping this stuff. So what happened there?
You know, because that just opens a whole bunch more
really uncomfortable questions.

Speaker 9 (02:58:04):
The gatekeepers were never taken to task. In fact, they
were the first to sort of throw Spider Baby under
the bus as if to kind of diffuse any attention
to themselves.

Speaker 3 (02:58:15):
I think they were quite keenly able to ask saying
that that was where the attention was coming next. It
was the next logical question, So what else could they do?

Speaker 26 (02:58:27):
You know?

Speaker 3 (02:58:28):
They had to make a bit of a preemptive strike
the ones who bothered the comment at all anyway.

Speaker 9 (02:58:34):
But this failure to sort of even catch the ascendancy
of a person like Spider Baby, and the failure to
really ask the tough questions in the wake of the
revelations of all the plagiarism and etc. Is indicative, if exactly,
the reason I feel it's important for us to do
this show right now, because I see a correlation. I'm

(02:58:56):
not comparing Eli directly with Spider Baby, because Eli hasn't
transgress the same boundaries. He's not a plagiarist, He's not
really doing anything wrong. He's making his movies, but he's
selling them with a lot of provocative, taunting rhetoric that
is contradictory, riddled with inaccuracies, if not outright lies, and

(02:59:18):
there's nobody there to take him to task. There's no
gatekeeper on the job. It's just the bullshit is allowed
to just flow freely down the mountain and nobody's there
to clean it up, and it just drowns us all
in its stench and its filth.

Speaker 3 (02:59:34):
And what's worth is that we seemingly like it because
we visit the websites, we buy, the magazines, we partake
in all of it. So seemingly this is status quo. This,
this is a situation normal, you know, like this is
what people expect. You know, here's here's your PR. And

(02:59:57):
the idea that a horror or magazine or a horror
website or whatever the case may be, would just be
sort of an extension in the PR department of these
film studios isn't even that controversial an idea to some people.
It just seems to be good business.

Speaker 9 (03:00:16):
They've implicitly internalized it absolutely as an ideal business model.
I've had editors say, oh, we should do something to
support this publicist, or we should really get behind these
guys because they advertise with us, and so on and
so forth. Like this concept of advertorial, especially in print.
Now that the funds are drying up, the advertising dollars

(03:00:38):
are drying up, so self evident journalistic ethics are being
transgressed as these publications get more desperate for this ever
diminishing pile of pennies.

Speaker 3 (03:00:49):
Yeah, and that's kind of the disturbing thing, right, is
that this is the same conundrum faced by all media. Right,
so all media, all spectrums are facing similar threats and
compromises to their integrity, So why wouldn't we expect to
see it at this level? And that's actually what kind

(03:01:10):
of makes it fascinating, is that to see it at
this level and to realize that even at this level,
this is how things are.

Speaker 9 (03:01:18):
There's also one last thing that I want to say
about Eli before we continue, because we're going to continue
to sort of analyze things that he said, to kind
of expose some of these kind of like wrong headed
assumptions that he spews so kind of willfully, you know,
as there's no gatekeepers or freethink has taken him to
task and so on. But I don't want to necessarily

(03:01:40):
continue to demonize Eli the person, as difficult as that's
going to be, because I really do object to saytain
things that he's set and his political ideas. Now he
said he made the film to spark discussion. We're going
to give him the discussion, and we're going to vehemently
disagree with many of his points of view. We're also
going to expose how contradictory they are. But I have

(03:02:03):
to make it clear, I don't know this person. This
is a human being, you know, he is a public figure,
so he's put himself in the spotlight. So therefore he's
allowed for people to critique what he says. And he
makes films that supposedly spark ideas and we're going to
kind of engage with those. So he's well up for criticism,

(03:02:24):
there's no question about it. But we don't know Eli
the person. And I felt like listening to volume one
and two, we were castigating a human being past the
point everything we said was true. I guess it was
the intensity of it. Yeah, the aggressive intensity of it.
Even me, and I mean I'm the culprit here, even

(03:02:45):
me listening back, was like, oh my god, that's really intense.
Like if you're a human being and you listen to
that and you hear people ripping you to pieces in
that kind of venomous way, it would be really kind
of intense. And I don't know.

Speaker 3 (03:02:59):
I mean, I would not a receiving end of there.

Speaker 9 (03:03:02):
I would not want to be on the receiving end
of it at all. Actually, you know what put me
on the receiving end of it? Take me to task
for what I say. I'm happy to debate and engage.
That's the difference. Well, I'm happy to debate and engage
what I say. If I put forward an argument and
somebody can offer a delicious counter argument that actually provokes
me to re examine what I have to say, I

(03:03:25):
actually find that of great value. I have a few
trusted friends that I rely on that form. We get
into heated debates and discussions, and I actually find it
of great value to be corrected and to kind of
understand the shortcomings of my own perspectives. Unfortunately, more often
than not, why you get people taking issue with you,

(03:03:47):
but they're not really offering anything of substance to counterpoint
your point of view, and that's frustrating. And actually, more
often than that, you feel bad for the person who
just feels compelled to take it a task but they're
not in anything to the table, and it puts you
in the really awkward position of having to spell out
for them how flimsy their arguments are. And it makes

(03:04:09):
a mockery out of them, and it makes a mockery
out of me, and I resent it, and I don't
like doing that. But if you can counter my points
with something of substance, that's fantastic, you know. So I
hope if ELI does ever listen to this that he
listens to what we're saying in the spirit of fundamentally,

(03:04:29):
we're taking issue with his ideological perspective, and the idea
is that he thinks are proliferating in his work. Vehemently
disagreeing with some of these ideas, but I don't want
to convey an idea that we're going after the person.
I don't know, Eli. Maybe he loves animals, Maybe he's
the sweetest next door neighby you could ever possibly have.

(03:04:50):
Maybe he loves his mom. I don't know the guy,
so it's not my place to put him down.

Speaker 3 (03:04:55):
Because every night before he bangs a bunch of Catalonian whores.

Speaker 5 (03:05:00):
Hi, I'm Eli Roth Forpeta Well. Violence in the movies
is make believes. Sadly, violence against animals is all too real.
Countless animals are tortured and abused every day, and most
of the time these crimes go unreported. If you know
of someone who is abusing an animal, please tell the
police or tell an adult.

Speaker 3 (03:05:16):
People who get away with.

Speaker 5 (03:05:17):
Hurting animals often turn their violence against people, and that's
the cycle we need to break. So let's leave the
violence where it belongs on the screen, right, Darling, I
thought we said no tongue.

Speaker 9 (03:05:28):
So yeah, I feel that's just important to make because
I don't want this to come off as like a
vendetta against a human being. Maybe the guy's fantastic. I
actually hated this wasn't said to me specifically, but it
was a film programer set it to a mutual friend
of mine. They said, you know, Eli's not a bad guy,
And maybe that's true. Maybe he's not a bad guy.

(03:05:50):
Maybe he just plays one on TV.

Speaker 3 (03:05:53):
You know, this is the thing too, This is an
age where we're encouraged to adopt persona and create a
brand around yourself and all these sorts of things. So
sometimes it's really hard to parse out the person and
the brand, you know, and the persona that they're trying

(03:06:14):
to project that they feel they have to project in
order to be marketable and in order to get people
to pay attention to them ultimately, and so you know,
you just almost never know what you're dealing with, is
it the persona or the person.

Speaker 9 (03:06:32):
That's actually just a better way of saying what I
was trying to say, basically, because that's the point I
want to make, is that we're addressing the public comments
of Eli roth right the statements he makes, not to
Payson making the statements.

Speaker 5 (03:06:48):
Cannibal Holocaust falls into that category of a movie that's
so low budget you kind of believe it's real, and
then you look at the people the use, and they
use real cannibals and like jungle savages when they film this,
you think, what monster made this movie.

Speaker 9 (03:07:03):
I'll have to go back and listen to one and
two to see how hideously I transgressed that sort of principle.
But that's but that's what I hope to do with
these two, because we've got more stuff to get into,
stuff that actually really does legitimately make me angry again
on that kind of ideological level. So I just sort
of really want to kind of make that clear because

(03:07:25):
when it came back to me somebody saying, you know,
Eli's not a bad guy, obviously, we're giving the impression
that we're going after him in a way that's very personal,
and I just want to really make it clear that no,
we're not going after the person. We're going after the
person's ideas.

Speaker 3 (03:07:41):
Right, and we're going to really try and stick to that.

Speaker 5 (03:07:45):
How do you direct a bunch of cannibals in Colombia
in the joy world.

Speaker 3 (03:07:52):
How do you do that?

Speaker 5 (03:07:53):
Just that alone seemed to me like it was just
it just felt like some of it had to be real.
There's no laws and no one's watching them. He just
it just gives you this really creepy feeling.

Speaker 9 (03:08:13):
So that whole thing we had about his small penis size,
We're not going to get into that on this episode.

Speaker 3 (03:08:19):
I'm not going to get into that. I'm not going
to talk about all the shown this dick to young
girls and what did you see those cocker comments where
they there was like Eli Ross showed me his dick,
And we're not going to get into how Eli Ross
send girls, allegedly sends girls dick picks online and you

(03:08:39):
know all that stuff.

Speaker 9 (03:08:40):
Sends girls dick pics online.

Speaker 3 (03:08:44):
In the story. No, I'm not joking. I mean that's
the allegation there. There are some women online, uh and
you know who who mentioned that they had received some
intimate photography, uh from from his wroth.

Speaker 9 (03:09:00):
And you know this this big not last long, but
I mean my whole desire to not kind of go
after the piers, so this is lasting very long. It's
all waking up very well. Now I'm talking about him
sending women dick pics. He's the Anthony Wiener of horror.

Speaker 3 (03:09:15):
The Anthony Wiener of horror, allegedly. So I mean, you know,
I have to say that I have not either an
over verifiable Eli Roth dick pigs available. I looked in
the interest of journalistic integrity entirely, and you know, because
I just wanted to see. And so it's not verifiable.

(03:09:38):
We we don't know that that actually happened, which is
probably another good reason not to talk about it.

Speaker 9 (03:09:43):
It doesn't need to send women dick picks though, That's
the crazy thing. I mean, Eli Roth. You know it
was a famous guy's a good looking guy. Girls like
him anyway, Just him texting a woman is probably going
to facilitate an exchange of bodily fluids. He doesn't to
send his dick picks.

Speaker 3 (03:10:02):
But people have weird pathologies, don't they, you know, And
so I like, who knows if that is true? You know,
like we have no way of verifying whether Eli Roth.

Speaker 9 (03:10:13):
Since all right, this is a rabbit hole I don't
want to continue diving into. We have enough nasty stuff
to get into without talking about his penis. When eli
Roth was spouting off against the social justice Warriors. I
saw somebody make the comment, you know one thing I
hate more than a social justice warrior or anti social

(03:10:34):
justice warriors, and I started to see the phrase antsjw's, antsjw's,
and I thought, you know what, they need their own name.
They need a name for that group. So I thought
about it for a while and I couldn't come up
with anything. And then on the finale of Community season six,
Keith David, referring to the group of students arbitrarily calls

(03:10:56):
them the nipple dippers, and I thought, that's perfect is
it actually doesn't really mean anything. And the other thing
that's perfect about it is Dan Harmon, the creator of Community.
As funny as he is, as inventive and brilliant and
creative as he is, he strikes me as something of
a nipple dipper because one of the characters on the show,

(03:11:17):
the Brita character, becomes his excuse to just land based
the so called social justice Warriors, and the only time
really serious political ideas are introduced to the show is
when they're making fun of Britain for having the pretense
to have any concern.

Speaker 3 (03:11:35):
About them, which is pretty nipple dippery.

Speaker 9 (03:11:39):
It's classic nipple dipperology right there.

Speaker 3 (03:11:42):
That's dipperology one O one. The current trend in branding
is unique, simplistic, phonetically memorable gibberish. How about nipple dippers?

Speaker 2 (03:11:52):
I like, is available done?

Speaker 9 (03:11:58):
So what is an anti SJW. Actually, you came up
with a good phrase before when you said they were
status quo warriors. Yeah, that and that could be a
good term for them too, the status quo warriors.

Speaker 3 (03:12:17):
And that's really I mean, if you want a real
shorthand understanding, that's what it is. It's status quot warriors.
It's like, we want things the same, we want things
the way they've always been. You know, I want my
peanut butter and jelly with cross cut off, and I
want it cut diagonally and I want it diirved with

(03:12:40):
some apple slices and a glass of milk. And if
you deviate at all, we're going to have a problem.

Speaker 9 (03:12:47):
That's why a guy like Eli Roth says things like
what's ruining horror movies right now is political correctness. What
he means by that is I don't want to have
to think or hear from perspectives from marginalized groups. And
this is the defining traits of the nipple dipp They
don't want to hear from gays and lesbians and women

(03:13:08):
and Indians and black people and any kind of traditionally
repressed group that previously didn't have a voice in mainstream culture. Today,
it's a very different landscape. These people now have a voice,
and the nipple dippers just can't stand it, to the
point where when they're forced to have to listen, they
fly into fits of apoplectic rage.

Speaker 27 (03:13:32):
you don't like these video games, you don't like these comics,
you don't like this music.

Speaker 25 (03:13:36):
You'll like any of the stuff. Don't just leave, just
go away. We're listening to it. Quick reading it, quit
playing it. Just put the shit down and shut the
fuck up.

Speaker 3 (03:13:47):
Yeah, it is a sight to behold. I mean, I
think I think Eli retweeted that guy's video right, just
maniac screaming, you know, shot the fucker. I mean, it's incredible.
And now we've got this the banded Star Wars campaign.

(03:14:07):
You know, like that that is you know, largely being
brought out, largely entirely being brought on by nipple dippers.
You know, they want to band the band the new
Star Wars movie because they feel that the black lead
character is just a just a bridge too far. It's
white genocide. They're calling it white genocide because there's a

(03:14:30):
black lead character in the film. A journalist ends up
criticizing the film, saying that the lead characters, the countries
that they're all from don't even have space programs, So
how could why would you cast them as Star Wars.
You know, they didn't even go to the space. White

(03:14:51):
people went to space. White people, you know, developed the
space program. How are you putting non whites into space?
I mean, this is the this is the mentality that's
going on here. That one guy even said, all these
white suburban kids who bought all your toys and made
this a billion dollar franchise are being betrayed by this film.

(03:15:14):
They called jj abrams juju abrams, like this is the
level that the discourse is coming out at. And this
is just because there's a black Stormtrooper dude in a
Star Wars movie.

Speaker 32 (03:15:27):
Throughout elementary school, junior high, high school, and college, I
was told that my race, the white race, was the
cause of all the world's problems. Now many of you
had jobs where minorities say things that would get you,
as a white person, instantly fired.

Speaker 20 (03:15:48):
This conditioning is done to white people, and only white people.
White children, and only white children are being affected by this,
and only white countries are doing.

Speaker 32 (03:16:01):
The Aztecs conquered many surrounding Native American tribes, practiced human
sacrifice and health slaves.

Speaker 10 (03:16:09):
Yet anti racist don't say that Mexicans must apologize forever
and have their lands forcibly flooded with non Mexicans and
be forced to assimilate.

Speaker 32 (03:16:19):
Anti racist is a code word for anti white.

Speaker 9 (03:16:35):
Now what you're describing, though, is an obviously extreme white
supremist point of view. Yeah, that they don't want to
hear from black people because who the hell a black peple?
They shouldn't be on a level playing field with white people.
That's their kind of agenda to begin with. That's their
sort of philosophical disposition. But a lot of nipple dippers

(03:16:57):
don't realize that they're racist. But when they do hear
these voices, or they're forced to engage with voices from
women and voices from ethnic minorities, it kind of picks away,
even subconsciously at their cultural primacy and rather than feel like, oh, okay,
let's let these people join the conversation. Finally, they see

(03:17:19):
it as a threat to their status in the world,
and it provokes this kind of fearful reactionary rejection which
results in them just literally flipping out, like screaming to
shut the fuck up, and just like thrashing about on
the floor. And I'm sure if there's any nipple dippers listening,
they've already probably had to have been administered medication by

(03:17:39):
this point already. But I mean, this is the problem.
It's just a failure of perspective to think that when
an indigenous group critiques something happening in the popular culture,
this isn't a threat to white people. This is another
group kind of raising their visibility to be equal with

(03:18:00):
white people, to have a say in the discussion.

Speaker 3 (03:18:03):
Absolutely, I mean, and that's all they're asking for. They're
just asking to say, hey, please recognize us as people
and not as cartoons as props. Yeah, you know, as
these rote caricatures were more than that. And then that's
really that's really all they're asking anybody to do is

(03:18:23):
consider them in that fashion.

Speaker 9 (03:18:25):
And of course this now becomes kind of central to
the discussion of The Green and Fano because the only
real controversy surrounding the film, there was never a real
controversy in mainstream culture. Nobody even really paid attention to
the film in mainstream culture. The horror press just kind
of gobbled up anything Eli had to say, and fans
just kind of weighed in and typical, you know, either

(03:18:47):
supporting the film or dismissing the film, largely based on
whether it was a good film or not. Nobody really
wanted to examine the racial representations in the film. The
only people making a mealize that we're seetain indigenous groups who,
from what I could see, consistently reject the film and

(03:19:07):
denounce the racial representations in the film. And this really
should be a no brain it because The Green Infano
is based on a retrograde racial stereotype. And it's one
thing to go back to nineteen eighty and watch like
Cannibal Holocaust, where part of the fun of that is
kind of wincing at how sort of politically naive it

(03:19:29):
is to have these retrograde racial representations. But in twenty fifteen,
it almost seems inexcusable that somebody would kind of pedal
in these representations without no real awareness of the impact
it would have on the cultures that it's reflecting.

Speaker 3 (03:19:46):
Yeah, and I mean and to that end, like you
better have a good reason, like you're if you're going
to cross that line and wound this group of people,
which is what you're doing, right, I mean, you're their
public image. You're contributing to a really really negative stereotypes

(03:20:07):
amount their people that you wouldn't tolerate. You know that
you certainly wouldn't appreciate being heaped upon yours if you're
going to do that. And I'm not saying you can't,
I'm just saying, if you're going to, you need to
have a real good reason, you know, give us something
good in return, give give us a payoff for that.

Speaker 9 (03:20:29):
I think if Eli walked into a producer's office and said,
here's my next project. It's a horror film. It's a
bunch of tourists. They go to Harlem, they get captured
by a black family. They get taken back to a
crack house and cooked in a big potts. They engage
in this like African tribal ceremony. Then they all eat
the white people, you know, unless like maybe Lloyd Coffin
could pull that off. Actually, but unless it was Lord Lloyd. Yeah,

(03:20:53):
unless it was done so knowingly with a satirical point
of view, I mean, nobody would have a fund that film.
And there's a big reason for that. It's that black
people have a visibility in the culture. They already went
through their own sort of legacy in terms of pushing
their identity front and center into the popular culture. The

(03:21:15):
Black Expolitation movement roots was a big thing, obviously, and
obviously it's not fully there because you see the way
people react to a black James Bond or a black
Star Wars. I mean they lose this shit. But that's
a more nuanced end of the discussion. The point is
nobody would think of pedling in such retrograde representations with

(03:21:37):
black people the way you do with indigenous people. Why
they haven't had their movement into the popular culture. They
exist more visibly now because of the Internet, if you're
willing to take a look at what they have to
say on the Internet rather than just mock their activist
groups like that infamous Green and Fano poster was doing.

(03:21:58):
But these people do exist, and they do have a
perspective that has largely been castigated from popular consciousness. Nobody
is discussing the racial representations of the Green and Finn
in the mainstream press. It's just not happening.

Speaker 3 (03:22:13):
And it's because of how we value Aboriginal lives. Right
We certainly value them a whole hell of a lot
less than we value white lives. We certainly value their
voices a hell of a lot less than we value
white voices. We value their voices a hell of a
lot less than I think we value black voices. Or like,

(03:22:36):
they're so so far down on the ladder in terms
of our cultural recognition of them. And maybe maybe this
is guilt. Maybe this is like we can't look at them,
we can't see them. We know what we did, you know,
like we know that we did an irreparable harm to
these people, and we just can't even we just can't

(03:22:57):
even acknowledge them anymore. Maybe that's it. But whatever it is,
we're not doing it. We're ignoring them. I mean, in
this in our country right now, you know that there's
that trail of tears, that that that highway where all
those Aboriginal women have been disappearing for years. I think
maybe it's been a victim of a you know, a

(03:23:17):
serial killer. They're thinking Robert Picton for a while, or
some other killer prowling the area. And what we've learned
now is that you know, the r c MP and
government ministries and you know all these other you know,
law enforcement bodies who should be investigating this problem and
should be attempting to find these women and and find

(03:23:39):
out what happened to them and bring their killers to justice.
And what they did instead was that they triple deleted
the files and the emails and all this stuff so
that they were impossible to recover, you know, just just
to wash it away, just to say, you know what,
forget about it. Let's let's forget it. It's China to

(03:24:00):
you know, just walk away. And that tells you right
there how much we value our Aboriginal lives here in Canada.

Speaker 9 (03:24:09):
A couple of years ago, Prime Minister Harper released a
statement that people have been waiting to listen to for
a generation or more, and a lot of people were
critical that the statement in no way goes far enough
to address the situation, but he apologized for the whole
treatment of Natives in the residential school system, which is
basically Canada's genocide and for people who are unaware of

(03:24:33):
what happened is Native kids were pulled away from their
families and sent to these like Catholic boarding schools where
they were tortured, defiled, raped, and sometimes killed. And it's
a kind of a deep rift in our cultural psyche
that we haven't come to terms with. Same with our
neighbors to the south of the border. The Native exploitation,

(03:24:56):
the colonial occupation of Native land, and the repression of
Indigenous peoples is something we haven't remotely come to terms with.
They haven't had a roots, you know. The closest they've
got us dancers with wolves, which glorifies Kevin Costner as
a savior.

Speaker 3 (03:25:12):
A white savior.

Speaker 9 (03:25:15):
And I think this leaves most of the population just
unaway of how to deal with it. So rather than
face this ugly part of our collective past, people choose
to bury their heads in the sand. I had a
really interesting comment, and I'm not going to mention their
name because I don't think they were really listening closely
to anything that I've been talking about with regards to

(03:25:35):
this subject. I think it was just a kneejach response.
But I was challenging that shock till you drop condemnation
about us falling for the marketing campaign. And I mentioned
in passing that the big challenge for Bluemhouse was how
do you sell a cannibal movie in twenty fifteen that
pedals in retrograde racial stereotypes. And I concluded that guess what,

(03:26:00):
you can't hence why the Green Inveno flopped at the
box office.

Speaker 3 (03:26:06):
Fucking care.

Speaker 9 (03:26:06):
So this person comes along, and keep in mind this
is a well respected DVD distributed and producer of cinnementaries
and a filmmaker in his own rights, and he accused
me of being a sensorial voice in horror and compared
me to Mary Whitehouse, which, of course, to any horror fan,
that is a horrible comparison to make. I mean, it's

(03:26:28):
a defensive one to make to any horror fan to
compare them to Mary white House, one of the great
demons against the horror genre.

Speaker 33 (03:26:38):
The early nineteen eighties marked a revolution in video technology.
For the first time, courtesy of the VCR, people had
the means to watch films in the comfort of their
own homes if they had five hundred quid and a
Pickford van to get it home. But surprise, surprise, it
wasn't Panorama they were watching. Almost immediately, unregulated and uncensored

(03:27:01):
films became available to hire, uncut from your local video shop. Gory, graphic,
and gratuitous. These films were flying off the shells and
leaving viewers so traumatized they could.

Speaker 9 (03:27:14):
Barely reach for the eject button.

Speaker 33 (03:27:19):
Fake blood, vacant stairs, and let's be honest, some pretty
shoddy acting became the hallmarks of what the tabloids quickly
dubbed the video nasty.

Speaker 24 (03:27:29):
You know, people who say that why shouldn't adults be
able to see this kind of thing in their own home?
I'm half tempted to say that people who make that
kind of demand, knowing that children are likely to see it,
aren't really themselves very mature.

Speaker 3 (03:27:44):
And I don't What I find more offensive about it
is that you're being accused of this for just critiquing
something and having a closure look, having the discussion that
they're saying they want to product.

Speaker 9 (03:27:57):
Well, here's the thing. I wasn't even condemned the Green
Inferno for peddling in racial stereotypes. I was just pointing out,
matter of factly that that's what it does by virtue
of the fact that it's a cannibal movie. I mean,
I think this is a no brainer. This isn't even
something that's up for debate. I mean, I'd love for
somebody to come along and say, well, actually, you've got

(03:28:18):
it all wrong. The Green Inferno is really a really
positive view of Indigenous people. Actually, the only person trying
to make that argument is Eli Roth, who has continuously said,
wait till you see the movie. Guys, it's totally on
the side of the natives. Amazon watched love that it
was on the side of the natives. No, they didn't
hate it the movie. Oh, I mean Manga Bay loved No,

(03:28:40):
Manga Bay hated it too. He's like, nobody thinks it's
on the side of the natives, Eli, But anyway, he's
the only person that seems to think there's a positive
racial representation there. I think it's a pretty much a
no brainer for anybody involved that, Yes, when you depict
the movie where indigenous tribes in Peru are flesh eating cannibals,

(03:29:01):
that's reverting back to this whole view of Indigenous people.
It's just ruthless savages. I'm not saying sense of the
movie or boycott the movie, or he was wrong to
do that. I'm just pointing out, a matter of factly,
that's what he's doing. And they have to sell this
movie based on this, and it's a really tricky sell.
Hence why Bloomhouse really failed to find proper traction with

(03:29:23):
their marketing campaign, and hence all the flip flopping that
they were doing.

Speaker 3 (03:29:27):
Yeah, I don't even get. I don't get how you
sell this movie. I don't, especially when you see the
final product, right, I mean, how do you sell that?
It's like I said before, it's missing that element that
redeems or even attempts to redeem the regressive portrayal. Right,
you need that in order to make this something that

(03:29:48):
you can sell to people, and it lacks it. There's
nothing that redeems any of it.

Speaker 5 (03:29:54):
The film came about from what I saw in this
trend of this lazy form of activism, this slacktivis, and
everyone's like, if you don't tweet free pussy riot, what's
wrong with you? Don't you care about these girls? Oh
you must be against freedom to speek. People are getting
so self righteous and so angry over this thing that
they knew nothing about twenty four hours earlier.

Speaker 2 (03:30:12):
I wanted to make a.

Speaker 5 (03:30:13):
Movie about these types of kids, these kids that aren't
really interested in the cause they want the shortcut.

Speaker 3 (03:30:18):
I am so sick of all of them.

Speaker 5 (03:30:19):
So I'm taking these people and i am baking them,
and I'm chopping them up, and I'm eating them and
I'm laughing at them.

Speaker 9 (03:30:31):
So to pick up where we left off with Jungle
Gate Volume two, following those episodes, I went back and
I actually spend some time reading through a lot of
the Instagram comments on Amerindian fourteen ninety one's account, and
it was really interesting to see the perspective from indigenous people,

(03:30:52):
from natives, how they feel about these representations in the culture. Now,
of course, we're both grown ups. We've been horror fans
for a long time. We've seen cannibal movies going back decades.
We're not gonna spe squeamish at a cannibal movie. In fact,
when I even first hit that Eli Roth was gonna

(03:31:13):
make a cannibal movie called The Green Infano, my fast
reaction was, well, what a fantastic title. Of course you're
gonna call it The Green in ferdo right.

Speaker 3 (03:31:22):
It's great title, it's spectacular.

Speaker 9 (03:31:24):
But I'm a white guy who gives a fuck what
I think about the racial representation. It's not my culture
being reflected in there.

Speaker 3 (03:31:32):
Yeah, and it's it's certainly not my culture, I mean,
or barely my culture. So we're not tuned in in
that way, we're not on that wavelength. The perspectives of
natives have not sort of breached the cultural surface so
that people like us can be properly sensitized to them.

Speaker 9 (03:31:53):
So here's a choice one has with a situation like
this one. You can be like a nipple dippy and
just completely dismiss the indigenous perspective. Don't engage in it,
don't listen to it, don't think about it, don't seek
it out, completely block it out of your consciousness. And

(03:32:13):
if it still pops up and gets in your face somehow,
you scream at it to shut the fuck up.

Speaker 3 (03:32:18):
Yeah, you just gotta pound that shit down there, that
that nail is going in there, that you know that
it that floorboard will never fucking creak again. You got
to make sure.

Speaker 11 (03:32:33):
Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 9 (03:32:35):
Or how about just being curious about it and just wondering,
you know what, what does a young person of indigenous
descent think when they go on YouTube and they see
a trailer for a movie like The Green and Finnal
that's just wallowing in these retrograde racial stereotypes. How does
that impact a young Indigenous person and a Native growing

(03:32:58):
up in this culture where the report presentations of their
people are largely being determined by other cultures and are
largely very negative and repressive by nature, how would you feel?
I know if I was like a sixteen year old
Native kid growing up in all of this stuff, give
them my disposition, I would fucking hate white people. So

(03:33:21):
by going through Ammerindian's posts and I'll provide links to
all this stuff if people want to play along at home,
you really get a sense of the frustration these young
Native people feel with seeing their culture reflected in the mainstream.
So I want to read a few comments because I
think this will help illustrate exactly the perspective we're talking about,

(03:33:43):
not that the mainstream how oppress haven't been doing this
and a good job of doing it. Of course, not
to be redundant, it's exactly.

Speaker 3 (03:33:52):
I mean, you know, we don't mean to pile on,
but you know, I guess we need to make our point.

Speaker 9 (03:33:58):
The comment that I think made the most impact on me,
and I couldn't actually trace it back to its souce,
so I forget who said this, But somebody said, I'm
sick of being trapped in the white man's imagination.

Speaker 3 (03:34:11):
Yeah, that's that's powerful. I mean, just just an imagery alone,
that's a that's a powerful statement. But when you think
about its implications and realizing that people aren't seeing you
as anything more than a loose collection of stereotypes.

Speaker 9 (03:34:29):
You know, if people are having a hard time kind
of getting their head around trying to look at this
from an indigenous point of view, let me point out that.
And I'm sure everybody has felt this way with respects
to something specific to them, when they see things reflected
in the culture that doesn't accurately represent something that they

(03:34:51):
understand fundamentally. Me I'm particularly sensitive too. For instance, when
I saw Alex Cox's Sid Nancy, which is a great
portrait of Sid Nancy's relationship, but it's a completely wrongheaded
and dismissive view of the sex pistols and their importance
because it's actually based on the Nancy Sponging book, which

(03:35:12):
is completely dismissive of the pistols. And as much as
Alex Cock seems to think he was doing all his research,
he actually gets it really wrong. So, as a lifelong
pistols aficionado and devotee, I really resented how they were
portrayed in the movie Sid Nancy. I have a friend
who's a jazz musician and I saw the movie Whiplash,

(03:35:34):
and I wrote to him and said, wasn't that fantastic?
He said, well, the jazz is really like all over
the place in that. And I guess he's got a
friend who's a trumpet player who hates the movie because
of how wrong the jazz is in the film. And
I'm sure anybody's had that experience, you know, if you're
a car mechanic, for instance, I'm sure the Fast and
the Furious films play loose with the rules of car mechanics.

(03:35:59):
I have no idea. I don't know enough about that will,
but I'm sure everybody can relate.

Speaker 3 (03:36:03):
Yeah, if you're like a like a computer hacker or something,
I'm reasonably certain that any sort of computer hacking scene
in any movie ever hasn't just been the most frustrating
exercise possible where you're just screaming at the screen of
side out. It fucking works. What are you're fucking getting me?

Speaker 9 (03:36:20):
Fuck, anybody who owns a computer reacts.

Speaker 3 (03:36:23):
That way exactly.

Speaker 9 (03:36:24):
So I mean it's like, I gotta even get my
computer to boot up properly, and these guys are like
lugging in in two seconds flat. They've cracked the nuclear codes.

Speaker 3 (03:36:34):
Exactly exactly, Like Hollywood has just not found a non
absurd way to portray that particular thing, and it drives
people crazy and it sticks out and it rings untrue.
And I think that's what gets us is that it
offends a certain sense of moral justice. We expect there

(03:36:55):
to be right, Like, no, this rings false to me,
and I want to correct falsehood.

Speaker 9 (03:37:01):
So it's not a stretch to understand that this is
how indigenous people feel when their culture is maligned in
these ways. And it's much more serious than pissing somebody
off because they're a fan of music or their occupation
or something. This is a culture, a culture that's been
subjected to genocide and repression and continues to be subjected

(03:37:23):
to those forces, especially the indigenous people in the Amazon
who are under threat daily from genocidal programs infiltrated by
big business interests in the region.

Speaker 3 (03:37:34):
Yeah, I mean, there's absolutely no question that this is
several orders of magnitude more important. However, I will bet
you dollars to donuts that were you to google the
two issues, you will find far more forums filled with
people complaining about how inaccurate the movie Hackers was versus

(03:37:57):
you know, people complaining about how accurate the portrayal of
Native Peruvians is in The Green Inferno.

Speaker 9 (03:38:05):
Here's another comment that really made an impact on me.
It's from a woman named o Prido. That's her Instagram account.
She seems to be a young teenage Indigenous girl. Here
response to the trailer was as follows. She said, this
really got to me. I'm heartbroken. They white supremacy is

(03:38:26):
always attacking our people, people of color. I'm in tears
right now. Our people from the South need us more
than ever. Let's show them we are not separate, that
it doesn't matter the distance nor time, we will always
be there for each other. We are not extinct. We
are the Rebate movement. We are indigenous natives of this land.

(03:38:49):
Now you might think, Okay, she's probably like a sixteen
year old girl, maybe she's a bit hypersensitive, touch hyperbolic,
but that's here visceral response stration the pain that she
feels living in a culture where this repression is a
daily fucking fact.

Speaker 3 (03:39:09):
The term that really sticks out to me, and that
is interesting because it is hyperbolic and yet not at
all hyperbolic, is extinction when she talks about the extinction
of her people, because that's a very real fear and concern.
You know, when Star Wars fans talk about white genocide,

(03:39:33):
it's hard to take that seriously when you're compared with
this girl's really anguished expression about the possible collapse an
end of her culture and her line. I mean, this
is so, this is a real genocide, and the use

(03:39:55):
of that word extinct just is so damn tragic to me.

Speaker 9 (03:40:00):
I named Lindsay. That's actually his Instagram account. Guy named
Lindsay said, if anyone wants to collaborate on a truthful
film about what really goes on when Europeans set foot
on Indigenous land, hit me up. I've got the equipment
and the time. Of course, that's the great irony about
the Green Inferno is to castigate the Indigenous people as

(03:40:23):
the ruthless savages when history tells a completely different tale.
History tells the story of how it's the white European
colonial conquerors who were the savages who subjected these people
to torture and genocide and illness and death and repression
and exploitation. It's the white guys who are the bad guys.

Speaker 14 (03:40:43):
Now.

Speaker 9 (03:40:43):
Eli seemed to think the white people were the bad
guys in the Green Inferno. But that's only because Eli
is a deeply confused human being, which I think we
all understand. By this point, you must.

Speaker 3 (03:40:56):
Admit it's exceptional footage.

Speaker 30 (03:40:58):
I didn't expect such impact, such authenticity.

Speaker 3 (03:41:02):
I don't know. I don't think exception was the right word.

Speaker 27 (03:41:05):
You don't, no, I mean, what's exceptional about a primitive
tribe your crumo be terrorized and forced into doing something
that they don't normally.

Speaker 29 (03:41:15):
Just come on, now, professor, let's be realistic. Who knows
anything about the echo civilization today? People want sensationalists. The
more you rape their senses, the happier they are.

Speaker 3 (03:41:27):
What I like about this guy's remark is that it's
it's so enthusiastic, it's got this like it's hopeful. It's like,
let's go and let's go and do our own thing.
Let's let's build our own you know, media, let's let's
tell our own stories.

Speaker 9 (03:41:42):
Well, it's like what roots did for slavery. This story
will eventually come out. There'll be a mini series that
explores the true colonial repression of Indigenous people. It'll be
called like Fuck Columbus Day, the Mini Series or something.

Speaker 3 (03:41:58):
They'll finally make a proper film version of you know,
Bill Burrow's Thanksgiving Prayer or something like that, and just
horrify a whole nation as it should, you know, and
this will finally just you know, we'll confront it. We'll
confront it somehow, we'll grapple with it somehow.

Speaker 9 (03:42:17):
And to expand upon the same point, somebody joined in
and said, I hate it when they make white people
innocent and Indigenous people bloodthirsty, Like seriously, it was white
people that came here and raped the women, whilst the
others burned their homes and stole their culture just so
their descendants could appropriate it. And of course all of

(03:42:39):
this really begs the question is to what degree do
you think Eli Roth, setting out to make this movie
really stop to think about these types of perspectives. Have
they simply just taken him by surprise, like he's made
the movies put it out there, and it's getting the

(03:43:00):
kind of reaction Basonally, I haven't seen any Indigenous people
actually champion the film or defend the film, but I
have seen a wide spread rejection of the movie. Any
article that I've seen from like a Native website or
a magazine or something that has been uniformally denouncing Eli's film.

(03:43:21):
Do you think he was aware that this was the
reaction that he was going to get with the movie.

Speaker 3 (03:43:25):
I don't see how it's possible that he couldn't, being
that The one thing that we, I think everybody knows
and admires about Eli Roth, and the thing that I
think makes us hopeful that he has a masterful piece
of cinema in him is that he is an adherent

(03:43:47):
to genre of culture. He knows the films, you know,
I mean he titled this film the Green Inferto. You know,
he knows the origins of this story, he knows the
places that he's pulling this film from, and so surely
he also knows the reactions to cannibal Holocaust. So as

(03:44:10):
a student of this film, you know, as someone who
respects it the way he claims to, and someone who
has the breadth of knowledge about it that he must have.
He can't not know. There's no way he can't know.
It's impossible.

Speaker 9 (03:44:25):
Somebody named Tucker's five five six showed up to say,
and this is a common nipple dipper expression. You hear
it applied all the time ad nauseum. They said, dude,
it's just a movie.

Speaker 12 (03:44:39):
Keep repeating in his only movie, it take as.

Speaker 9 (03:44:47):
Much as you can only And the astonishing thing about
that point of view is that, yeah, it's a movie,
i e. The most powerful and influential form of mass
communication ever devised by human beings in the history of
planet Earth. Yes, that's a movie, just a movie. So

(03:45:10):
then Amerindian fourteen ninety one counters this with what I
think is a really sensible statement that actually illustrates the
point perfectly. He said, with the movie The Green and
Ferno coming out, I wanted to make a point of
how perception is reality. For those who want to argue
that it's just a movie, then they are denying the

(03:45:33):
influence of films, even in a horror movie. How did
the Native Americans of the United States get the stereotype
that we were bloodthirsty savages? Just look at the Cowboy
and Indians movies from the fifties. I just read an
article about the movie Sideways, where one of the character
loves drinking red wine Pino Noir while shitting on the

(03:45:57):
more popular wine at the time, Melow. Following the film's release,
Melow sales dropped two percent, while Pino Noir jumped sixteen percent.
There is one hundred more examples of how films can influence,
from all Arabs and terrorists to all Asian women love
white men. So even though this movie director, who actually

(03:46:18):
played one of my favorite characters in Glorious Bastards, assured
me that by the end of the film we will
be rooting for the Amazon Indians and looking at the
big oil companies as the true savages, I still have
my doubts.

Speaker 14 (03:46:32):
Antonio Margaradi, and I think that's just a really perfect
way of explaining how films actually impact our view of
the world more so than any other media.

Speaker 9 (03:46:44):
Motion pictures and their more insidious offspring television are the
most powerful mass communication.

Speaker 3 (03:46:51):
Tools we have.

Speaker 9 (03:46:53):
They will do more to influence our view of the
world than literature, the music certainly more or an interpretive
dance exactly.

Speaker 3 (03:47:03):
And this is why you know this is an extremely
important comment because in it, Ammerindian shows a greater respect
for the medium than this person who feels like they're
a defender of the medium. You know that they're going
to there to protect this medium.

Speaker 9 (03:47:22):
Amerindian points out the whole Pino noir thing from Sideways,
which I actually didn't know until I read that comment.
But it doesn't surprise me at all. I mean, that
was such a famous part of that movie, and it
was the first time that I ever thought what people
look down on Mellow, actually they don't. That's sort of
a fallacy in the film that that character just has
a peculiar hang up on Melo. But I think people

(03:47:45):
whine is like one of those things that nobody understands.
It's like the Emperor's New Clothes sort of thing, Like
everyone wants to think that they're Somalia when they don't
even can't even tell a cheap bottle of plunk from
a fine vintage or even understand it unless they're educated
in it or come from a culture of it. But
nobody wants to look ignorant. So I could totally see

(03:48:06):
that that moment in Sideways would make people react. I've
actually seen it. I've actually seen people since that movie Melow.
Oh no, Melow. I would never drink Malow. Are you crazy?
But I did read Alexander Paine said, well, there's actually
nothing wrong with Malow. It's just that character had a
peculiar quake, and that's all that was based on. And

(03:48:27):
perhaps the most insidious example we have in history of
how films influence public opinion is the success of D. W.
Griffith's Birth of a Nation, which lionizes the ku Klux Klan,
which at the time were in decline. They were practically extinct,
but the popularity of that film brought about a huge,

(03:48:50):
massive resurgence in the ku Klux Klan. So that is
like a crystal clear historical example of how filmed, yes
only films, influence and shape public opinion.

Speaker 3 (03:49:05):
I mean, I mean, this is the thing. It's so clear.
I mean, I don't understand how people who perhaps they
haven't heard of like Lenny Reefinstahl, you know, like like
maybe they've just never seen any of those, you know,
the Nazi propaganda films. And I hate to go there
because you know people are gonna say, oh, you had
to invoke the Nazis, and you know, you can't make

(03:49:28):
your point without bringing the bloody Nazis into it. But
I mean, really think about it. It was radio and
cinema that really propelled Hitler to power. The ability to
project his voice and the voice of his spokespeople into
people's homes through radio, through that field of mass communication

(03:49:51):
was so immensely powerful, and he used it to his advantage.
And then by getting a reef install involved and bringing
that power the cinema and combining the sound with the image,
and so you had these the oratory that that he
was known for merged with this triumphalist imagery, this powerful potent.

(03:50:15):
You know, these images fire and red banners and you
know those reefinshall angles that upward, you know, looking up
at the man on the podium and seeing him in
all his glory standing above this. You know, these these
perfectly formed lines of soldiers. I mean, this is this
was powerful, powerful stuff, and stuff that people hadn't engaged

(03:50:39):
yet at that point. You know, this was the This
was the first time people were seeing a lot of this,
and lo and behold what was the result. You know,
He's He's chancellor in no time.

Speaker 9 (03:50:50):
You know, to me, it's crazy that was sitting here
even debating. We're not debating, but even discussing the concept
that movies and shape public opinion. It's nuts to me
to think that people actually don't think this is the case.
And I'm sure there's some people listening going who doesn't
understand this by now, But believe me, I've been seeing

(03:51:10):
that comment applied over and over and over again, not
just from nipple dippers, not just from children, not just
from teenagers, not just from totally uneducated people who've clearly
never even stopped to think about the nature of the
world that we live in, but people who are surprisingly
well versed in genre culture. It's crazy to me that

(03:51:34):
we're even stopping to take time out to illustrate what
is so plainly self evident to anybody that has even
stopped and analyzed, not even analyzed, but even just observed
the world that we live in for four seconds.

Speaker 3 (03:51:49):
But this is where we touch on something very fascinating,
because what this reveals is that the contortions that these
people are willing to twist themselves into to avoid uncomfortable
confrontation with their psyche and to avoid uncomfortable ideas about

(03:52:11):
the media they're consuming that may change it for them
from just you know, kicks and fun to maybe something
a little more profound and something that may lead them
in different ways in life. I mean, this is the
lengths they're willing to go to. To not think about

(03:52:32):
that is to is to try and hold the position
that nope, it's just movies. And I think at the
heart of that all is a desire to avoid shame, right.
It's it's people wanting to not feel people who have
been made to feel ashamed embarrassed of things that they

(03:52:54):
liked and media that they enjoyed. And maybe they liked
weirdo movies or maybe they just were into different things
than other people were, and they were made to feel
embarrassed and and shamed about it, and they were kind
of ostracized about it. And so now the lengths I'm
willing to go to that. First of all, they almost
wear that as a badge of honor, like, hey, I

(03:53:15):
was shamed to enjoy this stuff, so I you know,
I've toughened up. But at heart, a lot of them
are really just wanting to escape that shame. And they
see this criticism, they see this like, well, well, let's
look at this from this different perspective as opening the
door to that shame and letting themselves be shamed by it.

(03:53:36):
And I think if we focus there, I think that's
where we're going to find the heart of a lot
of this.

Speaker 9 (03:53:41):
The cognitive dissonance that I've experiencing right now doing this
is I feel like everything was saying it's so painfully obvious,
and yet why does it elude the mass media? That's
the crazy thing. It's like coming to terms with the
fact that America is not a democracy. When you can
only choose between two corporate funded candidates, that is obviously

(03:54:05):
not a democracy, But we live in this system where
like millions and millions and millions of people believe it
is because that's how it's presented on television. So we're
putting forward some really painfully obvious, very simple concepts, but
they're so forbidden from popular consciousness because the mass media
don't embrace them. That's the frustrating thing about doing this

(03:54:27):
sort of stuff, And I think part of me doesn't
want to continue talking about it because it's so obvious,
and yet if we don't do it, who the fuck is?

Speaker 3 (03:54:36):
Well, that's exactly it, because a lot of the fundamental
stuff that should be there the firmament that we should
be able to build all this on so that we
all share this understanding. It just isn't there because there's
there's been this mass erosion in media literacy, right and

(03:54:59):
mass quite frankly in media competency. But those are two
sides of the same coins. So the audience has been diminished,
the content creators have been diminished, so the entire gambit
is diminished, the entire institution is diminished. So in order

(03:55:19):
to sensibly criticize it, you have to cover a lot
of really basic fundamental grounds that's, you're right, almost embarrassing
to talk about and embarrassing to be, like, I can't
believe we have to sort of go over these like
simple concepts, and you feel almost condescending when you're really
not trying to be condescending. You're just trying to make

(03:55:41):
sure that, hey, we're all on the same page and
we're all talking about the same thing here, because there's
just there's just some real gaps in both literacy and
competency and media right now, and I just we're just
hoping to fill those in a little bit, and that's

(03:56:02):
going to take time, and.

Speaker 9 (03:56:03):
We hope people will be patient with that, what do
you think you are a free thinking We're.

Speaker 3 (03:56:07):
Freethinkers, man, We're wild freethinkers, you know who We're going
to actually have to think this ship out and like
wrestle with ideas and like do some research and you know,
try and relate to foreigners and all this sort of nonsense. Right, So,
I mean this, this stuff takes time, and to do

(03:56:30):
it right takes time. And I think that's that's one
of the other things that I hope people can take
away from this, and that I hope we can sort
of prove a concept of and that is, you can
do this and do this right, and do this thoroughly,
and make something that is entertaining, and make something that

(03:56:51):
is you know, educates, and make something that that sheds
light on real issues and addresses real stuff. But through
the lens of you know, a freaking Cannibal movie.

Speaker 7 (03:57:33):
I canible.

Speaker 8 (03:57:36):
Cannibal, your longest rible I mean cannible, I mean in
Cannibal it's incredible. String up the le and I Cannibal.

Speaker 12 (03:57:58):
Shack.

Speaker 9 (03:57:59):
Can't you do yours?

Speaker 11 (03:58:01):
Too?

Speaker 12 (03:58:02):
Hot?

Speaker 8 (03:58:03):
I'm gonna gonna stop fancy a bite by appetite young
young gees, but I'm banging and at this prestaurant, and
I am cannible be able to I'm in cannibal.

Speaker 7 (03:58:24):
I be in cannible.

Speaker 8 (03:58:28):
It's incredible your brandy and I am incredible.

Speaker 7 (03:58:37):
I'm spats the nights. But it's a diet, such a dish.
I care PRIs this healthy recipe. What you got is
the com me I think I'd put me out. You're like,

(03:59:12):
it's gonna be.

Speaker 10 (03:59:15):
Kind.

Speaker 8 (03:59:18):
I gonna outs, I'm taking out the first books, canible,
the long terrible, same things.

Speaker 7 (03:59:41):
I am terrible, tiny.

Speaker 8 (03:59:46):
Padable, It's incredible, scary and names I cannot chosen each other.

Speaker 7 (04:00:00):
Was a boast the.

Speaker 16 (04:00:01):
Game, Big game shout, incredibly delicious to call job and
you're final trying to take home Johnny and I sing
on the game party and incredibly delicious to go and
fly into you a fly home and gay you sing
on the few tilS, can't stop I thing on a

(04:00:23):
jump

Speaker 8 (04:00:23):
Jumping and tracking you the when I boasted gain and
incredibly delicious to

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