Special Report: Superman (2025)

Mike is joined by Father Malone (Midnight Viewing) and Chris Stachiw (The Kulturecast) to discuss James Gunn's first foray as the head of the "DCU" with his 2025 film, Superman. It's a new interpretation of the Man of Steel as David Corenswet takes to the skies as the lone son of Krypton watches over the people of Earth, much to the chagrin of Lex Luthor (Nicholas Hoult). It's a surprisingly decent entry from DC that may pave the way to a less-dour vision of superheroes.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Oh folk, it show die.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
People say good money to see this movie.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas,
pop popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booth.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. Got a.

Speaker 4 (00:42):
Superman, the most powerful being on planet Earth.

Speaker 5 (00:58):
We finally meet.

Speaker 6 (01:01):
Now as plans, I'll destroy you, and of course that
reporter you always do interviews with.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Who raised you as a child. I'll kill them too.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
No matter what you do to me, Luthor, your plans
will work. Wrap it up.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Good luck with that.

Speaker 7 (01:58):
Make a move, Big Blue.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
They chose him that doesn't die. Hi, quit messing around.

Speaker 7 (02:25):
I'm not messing around.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
I'm doing important stuff. Hey buddy, it's up here.

Speaker 5 (02:46):
Welcome to a special crossover episode of Midnight Viewing, the
Culture Cast and the Projection Booth. I'm yourls. Mike White
joined me once again.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Is Father Malone look up in the sky.

Speaker 5 (02:57):
Also joining us is mister Christasue.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
If I call you bitch, does that make me supergirl?

Speaker 5 (03:03):
We are gathered to discuss the twenty twenty five film
from writer, director, head honcho of DC, James Gunn. It's
the story. Well, I'm just going to actually reuse the
intro I use back in twenty twenty one for Superman
the movie. The film stars David korn Sweat as a
titular Man of Steel. It's neither bird nor plane, but
a story of a man whose father gave has only

(03:25):
begotten son for the people of Earth. He's out to
fight for truth, justice in the American way by foiling
an elaborate Well, it's not really a real estate scam,
but I guess maybe it is. Whatever it is, it's
set up by Lex Luthor, played by Nicholas Holt. I'm
not sure if it's possible to spoil this film, but
we are going to try so. If you haven't seen Superman,

(03:46):
please turn off the podcast and come back after you have.
We will still be here. So Chris, as the youngest
one here, what is your history with Superman and his
various forms? Sir?

Speaker 1 (03:56):
I had seen Superman Returns in the when it came out, which,
as I'm sure we all remember, was such a filmic
experience that they followed it up with nothing for a
very long time. I then proceeded to avoid like the plague,
which the people apparently people don't mind not having anymore,

(04:18):
the Man of Steel, which was primarily motivated by the
fact that it was directed by Zack Snyder, who, Yeah,
I liked Yojimbo or is it Seventh Samurai when it
wasn't five hours long with Rebel Moon or all of
the other extended horseshit that Zack Snyder throws up on
the screen, like that Justice League that we talked about

(04:41):
so many moons ago. So my experience with Superman was
about that. I went into the new movie having watched
the old movies to prepare for the new movie, not
having been a child of those movies, not having been
a child of the Chris Reeves Superman. Again, that is
where we are are. Probably at least one or two

(05:02):
of us are different in that regard because when I
was growing up, I did not watch Superman. I watched
those Batman movies, and by those, I mean the one because,
as father Malone knows, I just recently watched Batman Returns
for the first time last year, so I was more
exposed to other DC properties early on, not so much Superman,

(05:24):
and then post Superman Returns, I've seen Superman in things,
but more or less against my will is kind of
what it feels like with Batman. Versus Superman, Justice League movies,
I unequivocally had no interest in covering, but covered because
somebody's gonna want to hear us say something about it
at some point, so might as well be as soon

(05:44):
as it comes out. But that's my history with Superman.
So I am coming into this with no expectations. Really,
the only expectation I had going into this movie was
it actually kind of looked good. The guy who plays Superman,
David Corning, sweat actually feel like a hopeful version of Superman,
not like this dour, sad, muscle bound guy who seems

(06:06):
like he couldn't be less interested in playing Superman. If
you tried, kind of like Daniel Craig with James Bond,
it's like, we get it, you don't like it. Everybody
else would love to play this role, but you fucking
hate it. Fun So I didn't get that in the trailers,
and I didn't watch the trailers for this movie, which
I'm trying to follow your lead and not regard, Mike,
because you tend to not watch trailers for stuff. And

(06:27):
I will say the trailers for this movie didn't spoil
anything either, So there was also no but that's my
experience with Superman. So I'm probably the least exposed of
the three of us in terms of Superman and Superman knowledge.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
What about you, father Malone. When I was a kid,
there were no DC properties, There were no comic book
properties at all. The first comic book character I saw
on the big screen was Christopher Reeves Superman in nineteen
seventy eight. I was five years old. I'm sure Mike
you had a similar story. So it was that, and
then Superman two, and then three and then four. I've

(07:02):
seen every cinematic Superman on screen since he's been making
flicks to greater and lesser interest and success. I'd say
those movies pretty much for me. The last good Superman
movie was Superman two. It might be the only actual
good Superman movie because everything else has been diminishing Returns

(07:22):
as far as I could tell, Like what's his name,
Brian fucking Singer with his horrible like attempt to sequelize
what was already sequalized, Like you calm down, young man.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
That's right, because Superman Returns was technically a sequel to what.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Superman for Superman two?

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Okay, I was trying to remember if it was the
we cut a movie out scenario or not. That was
a very early example of that too, by the way.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, and that's on the heels of us not getting
the Tim Burton Superman movie that we'd all been sort
of the salivating over during the nineties, and then, God damn,
I kind of disagree with you. I think Henry cavill,
I don't think he was disinterested in playing that character.
I think he wanted to play that character. I just
think he was given the fucking most dour universe ever
to be Superman in. And who would want to play

(08:09):
that version of Superman? Anyone to want to play this one?
But I hated those movies. You know, I've said it before.
Zack Snyder has read two comic books, Dark Knight Returns
and Watchman, and that's it. And he didn't understand Watchman.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
He understood that Watchman was visually compelling, that what's about it?

Speaker 2 (08:29):
He gets surface things. That's why he used every music
cue from the book in there. That's why he put
fucking sounds of Silence in there, because he heard it
in another movie. It's like, we are not here to
discuss Zack Snyder, im mercifully his reign is over and
all of his fanboys can shut the fuck up now.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
One.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
I've really enjoyed this new Superman. I thoroughly. I had
a good time. Honestly, I have a lot of fucking problems. Nevertheless,
this was such a promising step in the right direction.
How about you mcguin, Oh.

Speaker 5 (09:01):
Very similar story. I think I have seen every Superman
since seventy eight. I mean I didn't watch you know,
Superman Versus the Molemen or any of those.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
But I saw those in a theater when I was
a kid. There was a theater that was a revival
house that used to show cereals. So I saw the Batman,
Sirius and the Supermans. Two.

Speaker 5 (09:20):
Well, I can't say I had a lot of hopes
pinned to the two thousand and six Superman returns. I
liked hearing the music cues, and my friend Mike Thompson
was recalling, you know, oh yeah, when we saw that trailer,
we were just so happy about it. And they said,
but what if they didn't use the music, what if
they didn't use John Williams's score, would we have still

(09:40):
felt the same? Probably not. And they were going all
out using footage of Marlon Brando and they were also
using the same lines from the earlier films. I'm just like,
why would he still be saying these things We've already
heard him say to miss Lane that traveling is statistically
still the safest way to fly. It just felt I

(10:02):
like Brandon Routh, and I felt like, kind of like
Henry Cavill, he just got shoved into a shit movie.
I'm not a big fan of Scott Pilgrims Versus the
World or Saves the World or whatever it is, but
Routh really kind of redeemed himself in that movie for me.
But man, oh man, that was just such a letdown.
And then every Zack Snyder influenced thing. I mean, the

(10:22):
only time I think I saw Henry Cavill's smile was
maybe in his little cameo in the Sham movie. But
holy shit, Yeah, this one, it's definitely a James gun film.
It felt so James Gunn. It was more James Gunn
than James gun could James Gunn at this point.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
You really think, so, I disagree, like.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
James Gunn was holding himself back. I didn't even I
didn't realize we were giving our thoughts on the movie either,
because I didn't give mine. I thought this movie was
a step in the right direction, but just as your
foot was landing, you tripped a little bit, just ever
so slight. It wasn't a full landing because it was.

Speaker 5 (11:03):
I will say that I enjoyed this movie absolutely. I
had a lot of fun with it. Just sometimes the
James goudness of it got him the way a little bit.
When it came to like Crypto, I was like, okay, yeah,
I remember the dog from Guardians of the Galaxy three
and the way that he would back and forth with
Sean Gunn and all that. Crypto felt so Rocket Raccoon

(11:25):
meets whatever. I can't remember the name of the dog
from the third Guardians film, who was also I believe
in the special, the Christmas special.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
We're talking about Cosmo, And yeah, James had a fixation
with dogs in all of his movies, but.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Now it's his dog. It's his dog now.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
As an old Superman fan, like, look, I didn't think
we were ever getting Crypto, and honestly I didn't want Crypto,
so no one's was as shocked as me. The Crypto
was as well presented as he is, like he was very,
very fun for about twenty minutes and then I was like, Okay, yep,
Crypto again, let's put him here again at the end,

(12:03):
and that come, dude, we get it. You love fucking dogs.
We all love dogs. I love Superman. That's the fucking
movie I came for.

Speaker 5 (12:10):
I thought he was cute and everything, but he was
just I kind of wish there was a real dog
mixed in with the CGI version of the dog. I
don't know if there really was a dog that was
used in this film at all. It just felt like
pure CGI the whole way through.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
And the dog is based off of James Gunn's real dog.
That's He's like, I kept seeing my own dog and
all the promotional stuff, It's like, all right, James Gunn,
all right.

Speaker 5 (12:35):
But yeah, I was surprised that Sean Gunn wasn't in it.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
More.

Speaker 5 (12:39):
I did like the little voice cameos from some of
the folks that were in Guardians, you know, Palm and
Michael Rooker I'm sure had a voice cameo as some
of these superbots that he had. And I like those
Superman bots that he had because they really reminded me
talking of that whole Tim Burton ordeal, the saga to

(12:59):
get that film to the screen, which never ultimately happened.
There were what six scripts, I think at least, including
one by JJ Abrams, and all of these scripts had
different stuff, but they're all based on the Death of Superman,
which included the use of a Kryptonian robot that basically
merged with Superman to almost be like an exoskeleton for him.

(13:21):
And it was very similar to this whole robot thing
that he had going like, oh, it's technology from his
other world eradicator, Yes, thank you, which loves to play
squash on Tuesdays against his coworkers.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
I am the Eradicator, I have to say.

Speaker 5 (13:38):
As soon as they showed that video with Bradley Cooper,
I was like, Okay, well, I know where this is going,
Like he was sent here to conquer Earth, not to
protect Earth. Eventually that's going to come out. And I
just felt that sometimes it was a little too twenty
twenty five with all of the stuff about online chatter

(13:58):
and super shit, and then seeing all the monkeys with
the brain implants and stuff, and I was just like,
all right, this is a little much. I kind of
wish they had backed off of that a little bit
and maybe given lex luthor a little bit more space
and a little bit more nuance, because he just seemed
pissed off the entire time. And I love Nicholas Holt,

(14:20):
but it just felt like he was playing it at
eleven the whole way through.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
I kind of liked that he was playing at at
eleven because he was like a rage baiting troll of
like the kind that you run into gaming online, like
an actual, like fucking internet troll. Given the ability to
actually use his brain as opposed to just typing the
end word over and over again, this guy is much
more of a nuanced asshole.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
So he's actually lethal in person and thus not like
an internetroal at all.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah. Well, I mean he does kill somebody in the movie.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
He's exactly like a fly. He doesn't have multifaceted eyes
nor wings, but he's definitely like a fly.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
At the end of the day, if you have a
movie that's as narratively disjointed as this one, and you
expect the audience to understand that coming into it, it's
not going to be an origin story, which I don't
think the issue of it not being an origin story
is an issue at all.

Speaker 5 (15:12):
I thought that was great. I love that intro.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Fucking a get right to it, everybody.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I think it worked really well, but I don't think
the rest of the plot, like you kind of alluded to, Mike,
does anything other than Meyer itself in a specific time
and place. And we've talked about this before with something
like the Twilight's Own reboot and then the end of
this movie, and Nicholas holds in a lot of ways

(15:40):
the framing device. And again, I know James Gunn is
one writing the script, just like I know who wrote
the script for Ghostbusters twenty sixteen. The villain in Ghostbusters
twenty sixteen was an Internet in cell. That's what he was.
That's who took that movie to task was Internet in
cells because they thought the movie wasn't gonna be good
because women were cast as Ghostbusters. It wasn't go because
it wasn't funny. Like Father belowde alluded to with the

(16:03):
Zack Snyder fanboys that are just dragging this movie because
it exists. I feel like part of the James gunness
of the movie that I have a problem with because
I think he restrained himself at times with other things
that he wants to always do. I think he set
the movie into specific a time and place to your point,
the twenty twenty five of it all, and it's not

(16:25):
the And again I don't want to say the wokeness
of it all because that's a stupid term. But like,
there are things that I don't think necessarily do your
movie any service, including them because they date your movie.
And I'm not saying every movie needs to be timeless,
but the dating of this movie does not help the
movie's cause. And I think it's the muddied plot of

(16:46):
the movie kind of goes nowhere, doesn't justify Superman getting involved,
And by the end of it, I'm like, I'm just
excited for whatever happens next because that means I get
to see this character who I actually like, is soon
this version of Superman going and doing something else. Hopefully
it's not this.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Don't make it this what plot?

Speaker 1 (17:07):
I would say, that's yeah, it's very very little.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
During the entire film, I kept wondering what the plot was,
and now twenty four hours later, I'm still wondering what
the plot was.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Remember how we were like, the trailer doesn't spoil the movie.
There was no plot to spoil.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
The plot is basically Lex Luthors versus Superman no matter what.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
The scenario is not always Superman.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
That's fine, and I'm willing to go with that, but
I do need to spend a little bit more time
with Lex if you're going to tell me that the
same amount of screen time afforded to the miss Test
Mocker Jimmy Olsen romance is equal, because what in the
fuck is going on? First of all, just personally, I

(17:51):
do not like that actor playing Jimmy Olsen. There's something
about that.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
Guy, oh Skyler Gazando.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
That makes me think he grew up eating fried Maloney sandwiches.
There's just something about his face that makes me want
to push it in. I don't like him. Nevertheless, I
also was like, why am I? Why are we watching this? Like?
I know Lex, because I've read the fucking comics my
entire life, and I've fucking watched all of the movies
and the TV shows and everything, right, And that's fine,
so I don't necessarily need to get inside his brain.

(18:20):
But as you've said, he is at eleven the entire time.
This is the angriest Lex we've ever seen. And I'm
good with angry Lex. That's fine. We haven't really seen
him yet, but what is actually motivating him? I want
one scene where we find that out. Just slow him
down for two fucking seconds. If that were to include
maybe a conversation with Superman that wasn't them just trying

(18:41):
to beat the shit out of each other. That could
have been welcome, and that only kept getting reinforced every
time we cut to this stupid fucking test Macher Jimmy
Olsen romance that I mean, I know it makes sense
the plot, like whatever plot there is like that pays off,
but who cares anyway?

Speaker 1 (19:01):
Sorry, there were other ways to get around it.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
I had to vent my spleen about the fucking Jimmy
Owlson bullshit man.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Skyler Gazando, what did he do to hurt you? Father Malone?

Speaker 2 (19:12):
He's unappealing, that's fair, No, I just that's vallid. He
seems a very talented human being. Maybe he's a really
nice guy. I don't like the look of him. It's
like Billy Zane. I know everyone loves Billy Zane. I
get the same sort of ick factor from him.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Robin Wright Penn with me. I get it.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
So yeah, all right, yeah, I'm.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Just like, yeah, I get it, get it, I will say,
Skyler Goazando is very funny in the Vacation reboot where
he's just having to shit beat out of him the
entire movie, So you might like it there.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
That was where I learned to hate him there, because
I was like, this is our rusty.

Speaker 5 (19:45):
This Oh I'd loved him in that. Yeah, but it's funny.
I mean, we just talked about Vacation for the Chase
and Chevy Chase podcast and I'm sitting there through three
quarters of the movie just going is that that kid
looks so familiar?

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Why do I know?

Speaker 5 (20:02):
And I did like this weird thing where because he's
not traditionally handsome whatsoever. And when they had the very
attractive girls waving at him, I was like, are they
waving at somebody behind him? And then later on when
they see what Eve Testmoker looks like, and it took
me forever to realize that she was missed Testmcker. They
just come calling her Eve through the whole thing. But

(20:25):
when they find out what she looks like and they're like,
what is it with you, Jimmy? Like why are all
these girls throwing themselves at you? These very hot women,
Like what is going on here? I kind of like
that I really wanted more Harry White. I really would
have liked to have seen more of him.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
You know.

Speaker 5 (20:41):
I really like the actor that played him, Wendell Pearce,
But it just felt like there wasn't a lot of them.
And I guess I am not very smart when it
comes to the Superman more. I kind of go back
more to the old radio show and stuff when it
comes to the Daily Planet, because I had no idea
who the Cat Grant character is.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Oh, she's relatively new, she showed up in the eighties.

Speaker 5 (21:05):
Okay, because I'm just like, who is this little blonde
lady who looks kind of like Kristin Chenowith. But isn't
it's an apt comparison.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Do you think maybe it was overstuffed with characters?

Speaker 1 (21:16):
I don't think all the time.

Speaker 5 (21:18):
When you have this like bubble that they're in when
it comes to the Internet, when it comes to the
media sphere, and it's almost like I'm done with it,
you know, like, Okay, this bad thing happens. Then suddenly
we cut to Michael Ian Black as Cleaveless Thornweight doing
his whole talk show and all this stuff. And then
later on when they find out that Lex Luthor is

(21:39):
a trader cut to again, like all the headlines are
immediately that, and I'm like, oh, it's the twenty four
hour news cycle. It's like, how many times you know
it's not a Barry Sonenfeld movie, you know, come on, like,
it's just leave it alone, would you?

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Like?

Speaker 5 (21:53):
What's something else?

Speaker 8 (21:55):
I go to the movies to escape, and I know
that this sounds fucking stupid, but I don't fucking need
to be reminded about how shitty the world is outside
in the fucking movies, because holy shit, the world outside
is rough as it is. But then it's like it's
Superman's dealing with the same stuff.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
I am like, fucking cool. I guess at the end
of the day, Yes, I'm glad we never had Iron
Man was a drunk in MCU, But I think the
MCU made the right call by not including that, because
nobody wants to see Robert Downey Junior pretending to be
an old version of himself that he didn't fucking like,
and they avoided it.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
No, they just puss it out in the second one
where they had that one scene with him a crunk,
He's gone crazy, He's pissing in his thing. So don't
think that they fucking avoided that. They just didn't dedicate
an entire movie to that story arc. They played that
arc out friend.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
But they didn't give it a whole movie.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
No, because nobody wanted to sit there for an entire movie.
But I understand what you're saying about the times reflecting
the movie and we want to get away from it
and everything. However, all my going into this movie was
I don't know that, given our fucking current political climate,
when the world is on fire, that I can get
behind some bullshit fucking like plot line of Superman and

(23:11):
Lois Lane and Lex Luthor for the fucking millions time.
So I actually embraced that they were sort of in
an oblique way, dealing with our current climate and dealing
with the current like attitudes and the current sort of
political machinations that are going on, because ultimately, it is
a James Gun movie, and it is a softball of
a film, and it is there to fucking hug you
and make you feel good. So if they're gonna do

(23:34):
it anywhere in entertainment, I want it here because everything
else is going to feel like a fucking ballpeen hammer
of the skull.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
That's fair, but also, do we really want James Gun
to be the arbiter of our.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Top in this case? Apparently yes, I go.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
I guess when you piss an entire group of people
on the internet off by saying, and I quote Superman
is an immigrant unquote an entire sub section of.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
He's not being a rebel though, it's like the most
basic fucking fact about the man, he's not from here.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
That was included in the Dean Kine show, for fuck's sake, literally,
then the article about it, they quote an episode of
that show. Like it's interminable at this point, how much
people can't get out of their own way to just
watch a fucking movie. It's kind of a sad thing.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's interminable that we have to even have the conversation, like,
who gives a shit? What are you all talking about?
It's fucking Superman. He is the moral center of this
country and pop culturally speaking, Like, ever since the fucking thirties,
he has been our beacon of hope, and we embraced
the fact that he fucking came from somewhere else and
could do whatever he wanted and chose to enact our ideal.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
He disguises himself as someone from Kansas. For God's sakes,
he is from someone from Kansas. Exactly. None of us
are adopted. None of us can understand like direct adoption
by two parents that are not ours. And that's the
other thing that Superman brings is he's adopted by a
family without children to be their son. And then he

(25:07):
takes it upon himself to embrace that as a character,
and that's part of his character and in the movie,
I think that's probably the best part of the entire
movie for me, is those scenes with his family. That's it.
There's a lot going on in the movie, but the
center of heart of the movie are those moments pack
in Kansas. But it's like, of course, of course they
were going to be great. We have four actors who

(25:29):
are good actors, with well written dialogue interacting with each other,
with all the noise cut out and nothing else. It's
like an oasis in a sea of close up shots
of David Corning, sweat flying through the air.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
As Clark Kent was raised in Smallville, Louisiana. Judging from
his parents at the accents.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Oh hold out, there aren't come in here, mush. They've
never been to Kansas, but they know where it is.
Un amappened. That was wild. The accents were people in
this part of the Midwest don't have any accents. That's
actually the point. That's why so many call centers are
in the Midwest because people don't have accents in the Midwest.

(26:09):
But yes, sound like they're in Georgia. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:13):
I mean the whole idea of him being an immigrant
is what a lot of the lex Luthor problem is
is when he is just like, how dare this alien
come to our planet and think that he can do
all of this exist He's a total racist?

Speaker 1 (26:29):
That's enough.

Speaker 5 (26:30):
All that should be enough. Yeah, and then this whole
thing of the two countries that he has fighting and
all that. I was like, Okay, that's kind of your plot.
So what I'm saying is if I was in the
control room that I would probably turn down the whole
thing about the media circus that is going on in
our country that we have to deal with every single day,

(26:51):
and maybe focus a little bit more on this, Yeah,
maybe Ukrainian situation that we have when it comes to
all of this stuff. I mean, that is where the
plot is heaviest for me, and I'm like, yeah, please,
let's stick around with that. And yeah, I do agree
that we tend to have a lot of characters in
this movie. We are jumping all over the place, a

(27:14):
lot of people at the Daily Planet, a lot of
people hanging out with Lex Luthor, this whole Justice Gang thing.
It's like, okay, that's a little much as well. I
mean that would tell me anything about Hawkgirl at all,
like any one thing.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
She's okay with killing people. That's about it.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
I don't know which hawk girl this is. There's a
Thanagarian hawk girl, there's a hawk girl on Earth? Which
one was she who knows don't even know her fucking surname.

Speaker 5 (27:40):
And then to have the multiple villains and everything, I
was like, okay, like maybe one rather than having Ultraman,
which made me laugh every single time they said Ultraman.
And then the Engineer, I'm like, oh, okay, But again
they're medic humans, and if Lex hates medic humans.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
But he employs them too, I mean I kind of
like that, but Lex has always done that, you know.

Speaker 5 (28:02):
But the whole Pocket Universe thing I thought was great.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
No, well, you know, he hates them, but he employs them,
you know. Again, a little on the nose movie like.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
That's Smallville for ten seasons. He was using them to.

Speaker 5 (28:14):
You know, I like the Pocket Universe stuff. I really
like the Mister Terrific stuff. I thought that was great.
I kind of wanted a little bit more of Guy Gordon.
I know he's insufferable in the comics. And my same
friend Mike told me his origin story and he I
love this backstory, and I really hope they go more

(28:35):
into it when it comes to the Lantern series that
they're going to be doing. And I have to say
I was a little delighted when I got to see
John Cena in here as well. That one little brief
moment of the Patriot I thought was great.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
You know, they're going to have to explain that at
some point, but I'm glad that we now see that
as part of the thing, and.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
They're just going to explain it off as some Pocket
universe of its own. Here's the thing about Pocket universes,
and this is always my problem with most super villains,
is that they always introduce some technology to defeat the
hero in and of itself, the patent would make them
billionaires beyond their wildest dreams. Lex has effectively a teleporter.

(29:12):
Why is there any battlefield at those two countries. He
should just march them through his little pocket universe and
into the fucking neighboring country and Bob's your uncle, we
now rule them. I know he covered his bases here,
James Gunn did in making that. Lex not only wants
Superman out of the way, he wants him humiliated. So

(29:33):
that's why it takes most of the movie. Lex's plot
concerns doing just that, like disgracing Superman. But really it's
a means to an end to get him arrested, to
get him into one of these Pocket universes. When he
has a we're spoiling everything, right, He has a clone
of Superman that he is under his direct control, who

(29:56):
at any time could have just grabbed onto Superman and
thrown him into one of these machines and sent him
into the Pocket Universe and then just fucking shut down
the Pocket Universe. I love a Pocket universe, They'll get
me wrong. I like the visualization of it here and
some of the things they do with it. But as
soon as that was introduced, I'm like, Okay, well, this
is a whole new cosmic sort of situation. Now This

(30:16):
has repercussions beyond just Lex hates Superman and wants some
off planet like it made it a little too advanced
along the timeline of these movies, you know what I mean.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
It's also slightly disconcerting for me, as someone who has
not been a fan of any of the MCU multiverse stuff,
for them to be introducing this kind of stuff this
early on, knowing how poorly the MCU has handled it,
and this is just getting started. Like you said, Vada Blunt,
don't go there now, Like you could do a kryptonite

(30:48):
box with Superman in it, like they effectively did that. Anyways,
that was still part of the equation. It wasn't just
the Pocket universe. It's also you had to be trapped
in a box with a guy who can make kryptonite
out of his body, Like okay, why not just.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Do that, invite Superman to tea and bring Metamorpho with you.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
I'm worried because I know the Peacemakers show what John
Cena is going to have to explain how the original
Peacemaker from the DCEU is now in the DCEU, which
are two different things, And they're going to have to
explain it somehow, and they've already alluded to the factor.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Are you really that concerned?

Speaker 1 (31:21):
I want this to stay uncarnished by shit like that,
because it's been shown how easily you can just start
getting into the weeds of stupidity with multiverse stuff. Because
the NCU has like hardcore.

Speaker 5 (31:34):
Yeah, I don't know if they'll ever do that. I
just feel like the Suicide Squad was basically the start
of the dc U whatever this new thing is called.
And I read in Wikipedia that they're calling it like
Phase one Gods and Monsters or something.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Amo he has been calling it since day one when
he got the gig. He was like, Phase one will
be gods and monsters, starting with creature commandos. And I'm like,
you know what, I definitely want to think about Universal
Pictures when I'm watching a wonder film and good work, James.

Speaker 5 (32:01):
What do you guys think of Rachel Brosnahan as Lois Lane?

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Loved her, He's great.

Speaker 5 (32:07):
I love that she's got a little Margot Kitter in
her smile. I thought that was really nice, and I
did really like her, and I really liked the scene
of them doing the interview. I thought that was great
acting on both of their parts, and I thought that
both of these actors are terrific.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
I knew we were in good hands when she made
a choice as Lewis Lane to eat an individually wrapped
butterscotch candy by putting the entire wrapper in her mouth
and then pulling it out and then using her teeth
to keep the butterscotch in her mouth. I'm that's great.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
I think she's the best contemporary like you guys, said
Lois Lane, since Margot Kidder. I don't think they gave
Amy Adams enough to do with Man of Steel and
then Kate Bosworth. I mean that movie just well again,
there's no excuses for that movie. That movie is a mess,
and Brandon Routh and Kate Bosworth have nothing to do
with that movie being a mess. That movie was a
mess long before anybody else was brought on board.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
She's great.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
I think she's great. I think she can stand up
to David korn sweat Superman, and her being able to
stand up to Superman, that's an important part of kind
of the dynamic between the two of them, especially with
what James Gunn is going for. I like she has
that she has a level of autonomy of her own
as a character is important because that's kind of always
been the point of the character, and that hasn't been

(33:23):
as much a part of the movies as it should
have been, if it ever has been with anything Zack
Snyder did at all.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
You know, I can take color blind casting like DRIs
elbaz as Heim Dull, but I don't know where anyone
got this idea that it's cool to make Lois Lane
a blonde. Lois Lane is a brunette from now on.
Let's keep it that way. That is all.

Speaker 5 (33:48):
I thought you were going to go after Perry White.
I was like, Oh my god, what kind of podcast
am I on right now?

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Oh no, get out of here.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Are you kidding me? Laurence Fishburne was the last Perry White.
I mean you know, oh you know what they bitched
about that too.

Speaker 5 (34:02):
Oh fuck Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
The people who ended up bitching that we weren't embracing
Zack Snyder enough. Initially we're bitching that Perry White was black.
Let's not forget that about those Zack Snyder fans.

Speaker 5 (34:12):
And you could hold a gun against my head and
ask me who played Perry White or Jimmy Olsen in
The Superman Returns. Maybe I would say Paul Dano.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Was he white? Was Franklin Jella?

Speaker 5 (34:24):
Oh Jesus wow, thank you, because I just could not.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Think Jimmy Olsen.

Speaker 9 (34:29):
Was Sam Huntington, Okay, Dylan No, he wasn't. Was he
in Dylan Dog with Brand Dead of Night? But wasn't
Sam Worthington one of those generic white guys from the
mid two thousands with.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
All Sam Samington, Yeah, Jy Courtney Worthington, Sam Huntington was.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
He was the Jungle to Jungle. He wasn't Dylan Dog Dead.

Speaker 5 (34:52):
Oh Jesus, Okay, there you go.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
That's the real Brandon rough kid that everybody wanted to
work on. Was Dylan Dog Dead of Knight? I was disappointed, Mike,
you didn't say that was your Brandon rap movie and choice.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
I saw that in the theater.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Jesus Christ, what theater do the one screening of the
one theater in the United States that showed the fucking movie.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
I don't know, it just showed up. And then I
saw it in the paper, went well, that's wild.

Speaker 5 (35:15):
He was so good and not another teen movie too.
That old scene with Gleason, the principal.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
From The Breakfast Lub. Yeah, outside of Margo Kidder as
Lois Lane, I think this might be the best version
of the Daily Planet we've gotten in a while. If ever,
I mean, Laurence Fisherman was good, but again not given
enough to do.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
I think it's fine. It's as good as any Daily
Plan on. Ultimately, how much time do we really want
to spend in the Daily Planet in any Superman unless
it's Lois and Clark and were supposed to be spending
time at the Daily Planet as long as everyone's kind
of cool and doing their job and everything like great,
but like, let's get out of the Daily Planet. We'll
see what they're reporting on.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Give James Gunn the opportunity to make Daily Planet TV show.
You know, he's champing at the bit. He just wants it.
Give me more, give me more.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
I mean, yeah, you're probably right, they probably will get that.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Actually, here's the question though, like is any of that
a bad thing?

Speaker 2 (36:11):
No?

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah, I don't know. You don't want to have another
MCU scenario where it's like you gotta watch all the
stuff to understand the movies. And I don't think James
Gunn would do that. But that is another concern, is
that huge casting of the net and expecting everybody to
get on board. But then it's like, yo, I don't
want to have to watch four shows to appreciate.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Your next movie.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
That's not okay. For like a tad again, we might
be able to do that, but for casual fans, that's not.
That's not a thing that I think should be the norm.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Well, I think even Marvel has learned that lesson. I imagine
they're gonna start backing way the fuck off now with
the you mean.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Moonnight's not gonna be an Avenger's doomsday.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
Speaking of lessons from Marvel, I was really glad that
the post credit sequences had nothing to set up the
next movies, unless, like the unevenness of the building has
something to do with it. No, I don't think so.
They're just having a conversation. So I was really glad
that it wasn't Oh, and here's how we're gonna reboot Batman,

(37:09):
or here's an email with logos for Aquaman.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Oh that's a low blow, Mike, Come on? Could you?
How could you? It's so fun to laugh again, isn't
it now that we can make fun of their pain
because it came full circle. They got what they wanted,
it stuck, and now they're back in their idiot holes
where they belong.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Yeah, I'm hoping. I've been hoping for the success of
this movie just to shut them the fuck up. Like
I didn't agree. I didn't really care what we got
as long as it was as far from the dour,
fucking bleak, just muddy looking, like uninteresting, Like these are
gods and we're witnessing these gods battling each other.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
That's when they don't have any good dialogue, No kaal
el or whatever the fuck galgad does it.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
At this point, the character is gonna shoot lightning. What
do you think on the soundtrack? Do you think we
can get that?

Speaker 1 (38:01):
What a boner that guy had for needle drops? Just
like I have the budget of a god, so I
could just be a fucking child with my needle drops.
That's the thing in this movie. For all of James
Gunn's needle droppiness in the past, I feel like he
contains himself here.

Speaker 5 (38:17):
I was absolutely shocked. Now he does love to have
those montages of the hero kicking ass.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, one shot is the fake it.

Speaker 5 (38:26):
And you know, it's very yon due with the Arrow
and Guardians. What was that Guardians too? Right when it's
zipping all around and killing Taser Face and all those guys.
That reminded me of that quite a bit. But yeah,
not the needle drops that we had, though. I had
to say that Lois and Clark's theme every time that
they would get together and have like their little romantic moment.

(38:47):
I was just like, this music sounds a lot like
Three Doors Down Kryptonite. Just in need guitar coming in,
I was just like, Okay. For a minute, I was like,
is this five for fighting super and it's not easy?
Or is this three Doors Down Kryptonite? And finally I
was like, no, no, this is Kryptonite. But I was like,
that can't be a coincident.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Oh no, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
I loved it though, as a child of the nineties
who grew up listening to that music, yeah, part of
me was secretly hoping that the movie would end original
Spider Man style with like with a Superman or kryptinie
one of the two. Like I was just like, they're
gonna do it right, Like what James Gun's not going
to miss his opportunity and he didn't do it. I
was kind of surprise, Oh, I.

Speaker 5 (40:01):
Know, or that ram cover of Superman. You know I
am I Am Superman.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
I'm like, yes, No, he totally restrained himself. He ended
with fucking Teddy Bears punk Rocker, which is as obscure
a fucking track as you can possibly get. I mean,
I know it's iggy Pop on the fucking vocal, but like,
good for him, and that was beautiful, by the way.
I think James Gunn is a good writer as far
as themes go. I think he's top of the pops
there when it comes to the themes in his movies

(40:27):
and setting them up and paying them off. I don't
know that he knows plot necessarily. I think his jokes
are generally corny and stale. But I loved the circularity
of a broken and beaten Superman being soothed by video
of his parents and it's jo l and his mom,
and then at the end they're soothing him with pictures

(40:50):
of mon pop Kent. I loved that. That made me
fucking cry when that started happening, And that was the
only earned moment of me crying in this movie. Because
he tried a few times and he did not. There
are a couple of unearned sort of crowd pleasing moments.
I thought, like at the start of the war, when
the little kids are hefting the fucking Superman flag, It's
like we just dropped into this scene. We're just meeting

(41:12):
these people. You cannot expect me to stand up in
a plot right now. I can't cheer you right now, James,
this is coming out of nowhere. There's so many plots
and so many different fucking threads going on that how
am I supposed to be invested at all here? But
he definitely wanted us to correct when it.

Speaker 5 (41:28):
Comes to war. I mean, is that how we fight wars?
As a bunch of people on one side of a
hill and a bunch of people on another side of
the hill? Modern warfare?

Speaker 1 (41:36):
He also said, spill all the blood, Like we do
know that people will just indeterminately kill civilions. So why
is that not the Oh, because Superman can't stop all
of that at once. Because that's the problem with this
as the threat of the movie is it somehow has
made a threat bigger than Superman. So Superman can never

(41:57):
get directly involved in that war, which is also kind
of a cop out on James Gun's part because he's
involved in the backhand, behind the scenes goings on. But
because there's no way Superman could stick his finger in
every barrel of every gun fast and upper catch every bullet.
It doesn't matter. And that's why it's fought that way,
because it makes no sense. It literally makes no sense.

(42:19):
It's a complete contrivance. And it like furthers that this
movie just in my mind, like the plot of this
movie is just a mess. Is these like huge logical
holes that aren't even plot holes. It's just like a
logical hole that makes no sense.

Speaker 5 (42:32):
And I really liked it well, And that's been the
complaint about Superman for the longest time. It's like, would
he stop every war? Would he stop every murder? Like
could he ever sleep? You know, if he's so concerned
about human life and scorel life apparently, like would he
go out of his way to do this all the time?
And so with this idea of him stopping a war,

(42:55):
and I like that appened off screen again kind of
going back to the beginning with that three millennia, three
hundred years, et cetera, et cetera. Three minutes ago he
was defeated by the Hammer of Borov or whatever this
place is. That's interesting to see Superman defeated. That's really interesting,
you know. And I'm glad it wasn't fucking Doomsday either,

(43:17):
thank you.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
But it was just Superman.

Speaker 5 (43:20):
It was just Superman, who I think will become like
a Bizarro or something. And I know that this character
Ultraman exists in the comics, but I had no idea
until again, my friend explained to me what was going on.

Speaker 7 (43:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (43:33):
I didn't do any homework for this one, guys. I'm sorry.
I just watched the movies. I didn't read all the comics,
watch all the movie, you know, the animated films, all
that kind of stuff. So I'm like, I don't know
who this guy is. I don't know, you know, what
the ins and outs and what have you of all
of these references that are going on. I feel like
I'm kind of done with that too. And it's more like, Okay,

(43:55):
I get the Marvel stuff just because it's what I
grew up, and I did not grow up a DC,
so I don't understand a lot of this stuff.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
I was a DC kid until I was full on horror,
so I have some grounding in this. But as far
as any of the recent stuff like All Star Superman
or you know, like some of the stuff that James
Gun has been drawing on, no idea. But at the
same time, plenty of my friends who are still sort
of in the trenches reading Superman and reading DC have

(44:24):
assured me that like, oh yeah, he took this from
here and this from that, and this from this and
this from that, which is great because what that means
to me is we've got somebody in charge who's an
actual fucking comic book fan. At the end of the day,
whether or not the quality of it is good, you
at least know somebody's got the someone's minding the store
as far as the continuity with everything, even if they're

(44:45):
not pushing it on us, which he didn't seem to
do too heavy here.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Our friend Richard HadAM, who was the EP of Titans,
which was DCEU, I think he had mentioned that, you know,
some of the people in the writer's room for that
show weren't fans of comic books, and I think to
your point, Father Malone, like there needs to be a balance.
There needs to be people that do love the comic

(45:09):
books and are like you know, like completely just involved
in the lore and they can tell the a front
to back, but then you do need other people to
temper that with some kind of other expectations of things
for the commonplace person to watch a show and engage
with it, because you can't make a movie or a
TV show like this and alienate large swaths of the audience. Frankly,

(45:33):
they're making this movie the way that they made it
to try and not alienate the audience. That was the
intent of this is to bring in as many people
as possible and to treat the audience like they're not
fucking idiots for ones. I mean again, we don't need
an origin story for effectively. And this is the crazy part.
The second most popular superhero because the first most popular
superhero is spider Man. It ain't Superman. Spider Man is

(45:56):
the most popular superhero period. Superman's probably second, maybe third,
I don't know, but Spider Man's the number one, which
is why they didn't do Spider Man's origin story either.
But that then leaves a problem of if you're not
gonna do the origin story, what do you do? And
to your point, Father Malone about All Star Superman, the
tone of this movie is all star Superman like, maybe

(46:19):
not identical, but I'm sure your friends who read it
a lot. The tone of this movie is very much
in that ballpark, and it's very elevated, not futuristic, but
kind of like in this weird like elevated futurism. But
then the tone of Superman and Superman's a little weaker.
He's more of a human, less of an alien, which

(46:39):
again this movie is kind of part of it is
showing that this is a not weaker Superman, but a
less strong Superman, which is more interesting because again, like
we've already all alluded to, what do you do with
the character that can do everything? Theoretically?

Speaker 5 (46:53):
Yeah, that becomes a problem. That becomes your first season
of Heroes where you've got the Skyler and the Peter
Petrelli and they basically are invincible, and you have no
way of ending that, just like what the hell we're
going to do? And then we just have to kind
of look the other way for the rest of the series.
And it's like, Okay, that is a problem, having an
ultra powered person who only has one weakness and you

(47:17):
have to find that excuse to get that weakness. Now,
I did like how they had the kryptonite in this.
I'm not sure if I really cared for the whole
Martian baby, who I kept thinking was like a young
brainiac from the look of him. And then what did
they just hire a guy to sit in that cage
with the baby and like wave his arm whenever he
needed to.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yeah, I kept thinking like, I can't wait. I would
like to jump ahead in time and see that kid
at like ten and the guy's still there, but like
they're friends now, and across the cube they're waving to
dad and Superman still like withered it on the ground, gasping,
but like giving a thumbs up for Oh, the kids
really really made an achievement there.

Speaker 5 (47:54):
I'm homeschooling him now.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Thank you for that bottom moon. I thought the same thing.
I was like, how fucking can ted It's saying like
this is the most contrived way of keeping Superman hostage,
so unbelievably contrived.

Speaker 5 (48:07):
I like the whole idea of this prison, this private
prison that he has in his pocket universe with all
of the people that wronged him in some way, but
I kind of wish that there had been more of
it and more of who are these people? In these
other boxes, just even just like quick one liner kind
of things of like who these folks are? The whole
thing of them grabbing that poor guy that gave Superman

(48:30):
a fullaful and shooting him. I was like, what are
we doing here? Like when they face recognize this guy,
I was like, is he like a fucking terrorist or
something like? Why is he so important to this story?
Only for him to come back and get shot in
the head for a guess giving Superman solace And I'm like,
you're gonna start there, why don't you start with a
much bigger target.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
I think he was hoping that Superman wouldn't give it
up and that he would get to kill him and
then everyone in the in the surrounding cubes would be
reminded exactly how stirs Lex Luthor was. I think that
man whoever was coming with him was going to die
and he didn't want information then anyway, that was fucked up.
This is the only time I've ever found Lex Luthor
to be formidable and frightening. I've liked the other performances.

Speaker 5 (49:15):
Wait, you mean him eating Jolly ranchers and flipping people
in the head and going the bell cannot be unwrung
ding ding ding ding ding. That wasn't doing it.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
For you, That sadly did not, nor did fellow creep
azoid Kevin Spacey sleezing it up through that fucking horrendous movie.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
The good reaction it really is. Superman will never.

Speaker 5 (49:41):
That stupid little Adam Rich looking kid, oh.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Him and his bald cap.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
At least Nicholas Holt shaved his head like Rosenbaum before him.
There are really only two excellent portrayals of Lex Luthor.
That's Michael Rosenbaum and now Nicholas Holt. In opinion, everybody
loves fucking Ian Hackman and that he was great for
that time, but you know he's okay.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
What about John Cryer as Lex Luthor?

Speaker 2 (50:06):
He was okay?

Speaker 5 (50:07):
What about John Cryer as Lex Luthor's nephew?

Speaker 2 (50:10):
What about it the dude of Steele?

Speaker 3 (50:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (50:14):
I think that was awesome.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
The real question is why wasn't there a some sort
of cameo or nod back to Richard What is it
Richard Pryor in the fourth one? Oh?

Speaker 7 (50:23):
Good?

Speaker 5 (50:23):
Third one?

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Yeah, third one? Gus Jesus Richard Pryor. Everybody can't find
a good movie role to save his life.

Speaker 5 (50:30):
We've gone down some bad paths with Superman just in
those first four.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
That's the thing, Like people my age really only know
like about Snyder's stuff like those. I only watched the
first two Superman movies. I didn't watch three and four,
like I know they have a reputation, like I wasn't
interested in.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Part three has one good scene, which is Christopher Eve
separates himself between Clark Kent and a really grizzled and
angry Superman and they duke it out in a fucking
junkyard and it's awesome beginning to end. I'd watch it
for that, but nothing YouTube I will.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
But my point being like people my age, I mean,
I know people that like Man of Steel an ironically
whit Jules. I know it's whatever, it's your choice. You
want to like dower and boring and bland and meaningless. Fine,
but I'm so glad that somebody has said, like Superman
can be a hopeful character again and not be just

(51:26):
kind of depressing and sad, because look, I mean, Captain
America is Superman, Superman's Captain America. That's like the kind
of analog to Marvel is. They're like they're all that
is good and everything, like Chris Evans as Captain America.
Like if you saw Chris Evans, if you were broken
down on the side of the road, and Chris Evans
drove by at his motorcycle and didn't stop and help you,

(51:47):
you'd be surprised because he's fucking Captain America and that's
like what he stands for and as that role that
he's taken on, Like that's kind of the expectation. Now,
I'm like, I'm glad that James Gunn brought that back
to the character of Superman.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
I would expect Steve Rogers to stop for me. I'm
not expecting Chris Evans to stop for anybody.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Yeah, I mean, you know what I mean. Like, I'm
not talking about the actual Chris Evans, but the concept
of the character he's betraying. Fair.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
I will say this, I'm skeptical of every new actor
that they cast as Superman, and it takes a lot
to convince me if they're any good at all. And
very early into this movie, I bought this guy hook
line in the Sinker. In fact, this is what actually
made me hopeful for it is that growing up, when
I was five years old, we were given the gift

(52:33):
of the perfect Superman in Christopher Reeve. It's just like
he was grown in a lab, like they said, make
a Superman and here he was. So Seeing this guy
and how charming and thoughtful he is in this part
made me really happy for kids coming into this character
through this bit of entertainment.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
And his interviews that he did for the movie where
he talks about actually being excited to portray Superman and
he's not bummed that might be the only he ever
has and that might be the role he's known for.
Like again, I go back to Daniel Craig with the
whole James Bond thing, Like Daniel Craig literally said I
would slit my own wrists if they asked me to
play James Bond again. And he said that before the last.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Who gives a shit what the actor has to say?
I'm talking about kids fucking interacting with the character of
Superman here.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
But that's my point. He is already a good arbiter
for that because the way he approaches the role is
I am excited to portray a role that will cause
me to be hounded by kids.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Do you think Daniel Craig's performance was lacking in the
James Bond movies. For having said that, do you think
he put in less of a performance?

Speaker 1 (53:38):
And the last movie, I would say there are moments
where he seems disengaged and disinterested. But the last movie,
the one that came after the statement no Time to Die,
that would be the only time I would say I
have other issues with those other James Bond movies. That
last movie. Yes, there are moments in that movie where
he seems disengaged and disinterested. And maybe that's not his fault,
maybe that's the movie's fault. But I'm only viewing it

(54:00):
through the lens of a person who recently just rewatched
that movie even and I felt that through multiple scenes
in that movie that he's not engaged. But again, that's
five movies in, and he made his intentions clear to
the people he was making the movie with, I don't
want to do this again, and they were like, well,
we want you to do it again, so here you go.
So yes, but not as much as you might have

(54:21):
thought given what my answer was.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
I agree with tired. I don't think he was disengaged.
I think that's actually to you.

Speaker 5 (54:28):
I agree with you about Christopher Reeven. I've just amazed
that we almost got Rich Hall instead.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
If he had just fucking practiced before that.

Speaker 5 (54:36):
Oh no, no, he got the bullet. He had a
dial soap call back here.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Oh that's right, it was Kroger who took the bullet
in the face. That's good.

Speaker 5 (54:43):
That's so good, me too.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
It's one of the best of that era.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
I don't think Henry Cavill was a bad Superman. I
just don't think those were good movies. I mean, again,
my feelings on him being dour and all that aside,
Like Denry Cavill was a great Superman. But again, those
movies didn't help this movie. I think helps give the
character of Superman more for a certain like you said,

(55:07):
blah blah blah, a certain age of audience to engage
with the character in a positive way that will make
kids re engage with Superman the way that they really
haven't been again, like Marvel's stuff has really been how
kids have engaged with superheroes for the longest time.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
If they were able to cast twenty five year old
Henry Cavell in this role in this movie, he too
would have given me the same fucking feeling. It's just
that he drew the fucking short straw Man. He ended
up in the wrong universe.

Speaker 5 (55:37):
Same thing with Brandon routh Man. I will defend Brandon
routh to the day I die. I think he could
have been a great Superman, but he was in a
shit movie today.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
I think, really the only shitty Superman. This is nothing political.
It's been Dean Kane, like he just seemed like a blunkhead.
Are there others that weren't great?

Speaker 5 (55:54):
I mean yeah, I started watching that Superman TV show
that they had a few months ago and and just
really didn't get into it. Also, for whatever reason, my
wife isn't into the character of Superman, and I think
it really comes from this whole thing of he's too
perfect and he only has the one weakness. He's people
describe him as an overgrown boy scout and I can

(56:16):
kind of see that, and she likes more of a
flawed hero, I think, And for me, I'm like, Okay,
I like this guy, and I like his struggles that
he has even though he is so perfect.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
And Tom Welling is good in Smallville, but that's Clark Kent.
I mean again, you want to talk about it being Superman, fine,
I mean it is Superman, but it's.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
We never saw Tom Welling Superman, honestly.

Speaker 7 (56:37):
No.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
Well, I mean you see the thing with John Cryer
way later, but again then he's like, I've given my
powers up and it's like, well, okay, fuck us.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Then, so that shit didn't count. Rosenbaum wasn't there, so
that fucking whole special did not count.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
That's true. And to your point, if Michael Rosenbaum gets
mentioned in the conversation for Lex Luthor, which obviously he
does because he's amazing, then I think Tom Welling gets
mentioned for playing Klark Clark Ken, but I think for Superman, yeah,
I think probably the least. I don't know that. Yeah,
Dean Kain's not great.

Speaker 5 (57:08):
I remember watching some of that show just because Terry
Hatcher was in it, and wasn't Mark Hamblin there as well?

Speaker 2 (57:16):
He was. You know, I actually had a friend who
was cast on that show, Lucy Lane, so I got
to go to some of the sort of early meetings
for Lois and Clark, and even then you could tell
Dean Kane was a fucking maron.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
But he was a great host of Ripley's believe it
or not. And man, that's all you have just read
off the teleprompter.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Dean just look at him and go, no, I don't
believe it.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
No, believe there. He's like the anti Jonathan Frakes. I
am so hopeful for whatever comes next. And I don't
think that any one of us would characterize our feelings
as hopeful after Batman versus Superman Steel for that matter.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
After Man of Steel. No, not for a long long time.
Nomadically have I been hopeful for the DC.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Yeah, it's the DC broadly, even not just Superman.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
No man, that's what this is actually exciting now. And
you know, look, I think there were problems with this script. Nevertheless,
it was a completed script. And I know James Gunn
has been banging the fucking drum that we're not making
a movie until the movie's ready to go. We're not
gonna start a fucking movie and go, we'll fucking write
it on the way. Thank you for doing that, sir.
No matter where we go from now, and the slate

(58:29):
of ones that they've been green lighting have been unusual,
to say the leadst So we're getting a clay Face
movie long before we're getting a Batman movie. That's interesting.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
He's going to face rated our body horror movie. Mind
you clarify that, because that's the fucking crazy part.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Hey, man, right on, and you know what we're getting Karazorel.
She's getting her own fucking movie. Obviously, it's her dog.
So if you love that dog, go watch that one.
You're gonna get a whole lot of that dog. And
partnered up with Lobo. I love that. Someone, some filmmaker
here at the DCU figured out that it is Superman
is automatically a cosmic book. It's automatically a cosmic title.

(59:09):
You can throw any alien at him. He is an
alien himself. So yeah, let's get Lobo in here already.
Let's you know, let's do it up.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
I don't know if Jason Momoa is poorly cast.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
He is not poorly cast.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
No, no, not for Lobo. I'm talking about for Aquaman previously,
because this is a Chris Evans situation. Once again, having
seen it again, you might laugh. Jason Momoa in the
Minecraft movie was He was really good in the Minecraft movie,
and the same way Dwayne Johnson was really good in Jumanji,
where he was having to play like a very specific
kind of character to react to a bunch of other characters.

(59:43):
He was very funny in a way I hadn't seen
before with Jason Momoa, because for the most part, I
find Jason momoas what he brings to Aquaman. It's just fine.
He's a surfer bro, we get it. I'm excited to
see where they take that character with Ay engage Jason
Momoa in that direction, leaning into who I think Jason
Momoa probably is in real life, because apparently Jason Momoa

(01:00:08):
just texted James Gunn like immediately once it was announced
that James Gunn was taking over the DCU, and he
was like, I'm playing Lobo like essentially more or less
was the interaction. So I can't wait for that personally
at this point.

Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
I'm here for it. I'm here for what gun brings
to this party. I'm excited to see what else he's
going to be doing, and I'm glad that we're getting
some of these unusual things. I mean, the whole thing
going all the way back to Guardians of the Galaxy.
So many of these characters, i mean, just look at
the Galaxy themselves weren't known to a lot of people,
and he just kind of had free reign when it

(01:00:45):
came to this new toy box that he had. It
was fantastic. Now, the second and third movies maybe not
my favorite, but that first one I thought was great.
And I hope this is not a case of diminishing
returns as we go forward with the rest of these
DCU movies. But I'm still excited right now. I want
to see what else this guy does for us.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
And I've seen people talking about the Supergirl cameo at
the end of the movie and how it's kind of
strange and tonally and consistent with the rest of the movie. Okay,
then that movie doesn't have to be this movie, and
she's clearly going to be a very different kind of character,
which is fine. I really like Millie Alikock too from
Game of Thrones, How's of the Dragon. She was fantastic,

(01:01:27):
So if she's the one playing Supergirl, I'm all for it.
But I've seen people complaining it's like, you know, the
thing that I'm most excited for is it seems that
James Gunn is actually going to do what Marvel didn't
do and let the movies be their own fucking things,
which is fine because they don't all have to be
Joss Whedon beat joke in front of a serious moment,
because that's what all the Marvel movies have become now

(01:01:48):
were like tonally, they're all Joss Whedon movies, and that
should never have been the case because Marvel, like DC,
has a wide and diverse array of characters like Father
Malone already alluded to Clayface and a woman who's a
hawk and an alien who can read people's minds and
all sorts of wild shit. They don't all need to
be tonally the same. And I'm glad that James Gunn

(01:02:10):
is seemingly allowing the filmmakers who are getting involved in
the project that he is working on to have their
own voice, which Marvel took like twenty plus movies to do,
because yes, they cast Kenneth Bronna as the director of
the original Thor, but I say cast is the director
because Kenneth Broanna's talents were not being put to good
use in early Marvel stuff because they were not letting

(01:02:32):
anybody do anything. And I understand why, But I'm glad
that DC and James Gunn are being given a little
bit more free reign to do their own thing, because
I think that should yield a much more interesting set
of films moving forward.

Speaker 5 (01:02:46):
I want to thank my co host Chris and Father Alone,
so FM, what is the latest with you?

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Sir? Check me out at Midnight Viewing. It's a twice
a week show. It's a horror show, but we veer
off into other genres and stuff. There's Father Malone's Weekly
round Up on Monday that's sort of a new release
streaming and in theaters show. And then every Friday we
have a rotating show where we look at horror anthologies
of all varieties, including our Tales from the dark Side
coverage that I do with these two gentlemen. So check

(01:03:12):
us out over there for Patreon dot com, slash Follo,
them Alone and Chris, what is happening with you? Hot stuff?

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Everything that you want to hear that my voice is
on is overt Weirdinglymedia dot com where the culture cast
taking a little bit of a sabbatical on that show,
retouling it and doing something different with it moving forward.
So it's taken a little bit of a moment, but
you can listen to six hundred plus episodes of that show,
plus Daosa the Shabby Detective. Plus, like Father Malone said,

(01:03:38):
Midnight Viewing, plenty of things that we're not on like
twisted in on corked or ADCD ladies or fomentaries or
all kinds.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Noise junkies or night mister Walter's.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Right, two things that HP does on his zone now
or I guess he does taxi with you, but he
does noise junkies on his own. And if you want
to contribute financially, Patreon dot com slash Culture Cast where
you get access to Mike and I talking about James
Bond once a month with our friend Richard HadAM and
father Malone joins us every now and then.

Speaker 5 (01:04:08):
What about you, Mike, Yeah, pretty much the same thing
where doingwamedia dot com for all of the stuff that
I do, all of the things that you can hear
other than that one show which is available at Patreon,
So you can get to my patreon at Patreon dot com.
Slash Projection booth. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. And yeah,
remarkably a DC film that we actually.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
Liked, Nature Picture Picture, Picture, Picture Picture.

Speaker 7 (01:06:13):
Paturetreature in a way back

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
Way