Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. We are here
breaking down the last of us Season two, episode six,
The Price. I'm your host, Tamara, and I am glad
you hit play on the episode today. Please be sure
to follow us on all of your favorite social media platforms.
The link to find both me and Lisa are in
the show notes, and if you like what you hear,
(00:25):
hit the subscribe button. You won't want to miss a
single episode as we journey through this season. Joining me
is show co host Lisa. Welcome back, Lisa, Hey Tamara,
Hey everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
My name is Lisa Orvin. I am an author. I
am also the founder of Indies United publishing house, and
I love all things pop fulgure.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Okay, so if you are new to the podcast, we
are laid back in our few style, right.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Lisa, absolutely, Tamor. This is a conversation, not a dissertation.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Right. No scene by scene breakdowns here we jump around
and of course, huge spoiler alert for everything through yesterday's episode.
The only spoilers you really don't have to worry too
much about are from the game, as we did not
play it. We did not, No, we did not. If
you're cool with that, this is the place for you,
and we should just jump right on in because I
think there's a good amount of things to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
What do you think, Yeah, figured out the origins of
the coffee beans and why she smiled as she put
him in front of his tombstone.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah. Actually, there was a lot of revelations in here,
a lot of good tidbits. And actually it really made
me feel good about their relationship as well.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, I mean you could. So. We had been assuming
that part of her being mad at him was her
finding out about what he had done saving her, and
it turns out, I mean, it is, but there was
a whole bunch else going on in that background that
(01:50):
we just didn't see, right, And I liked the clarification.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, same, I thought that it honestly thought. You know,
Joe's really good at gift giving and apocalypse let me
tell you.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Oh dude, I wanted him to be my dad.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I know, I'm like so thoughtful, he like gave thoughtful gifts.
I feel like his love language is acts of service.
That character.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Oh yeah, And I mean, and I did find out
that that scene with her climbing up the dinosaur i'bout
a dinosaur is actually from the video game.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah it is, yeah, which is kind of cool. And
so it's the space scene, right, he's like pretending to
go to space or whatever. Very cool, both of those scenes. Like, actually,
I think that was really unique that they used her
birthday to kind of like highlight this progression instead of
some random days.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Right, And so we're jumping forward year after year and
we're seeing her grow and we're there and we saw
how tight the relationship was at the beginning that and
we saw the origin of her scar and the tattoo,
and you know, all these little different things that have
(03:08):
been there this whole season. We just didn't know where
they came from or what their significance were.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Right, And you know, so first let me just say
I don't I'm not like a huge fan of flashbacks,
but this episode was so well done. I was like,
this really fit. You know, I'm saying, we got everything
we needed in just enough time. It wasn't overkilled in
any area. Really, it was really well done, you know,
(03:37):
overall high level. Because I really didn't think I wanted
to see Joel again, but it was a pleasure to
see him again.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, and you can see his part of that gift
giving I think was his guilt for what he had
done and trying to trying to make her life, make
her feel like her life is very.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Meaningful and and I think he really did a good
job of that until well, she's rehearsing that speech.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
You know, I need to know what happened on right,
you know. So she has had these doubts for a while,
you know, wondering about certain things and being very confused.
And I get it because, like she said, you know,
they saw the two of them rolling up miles away
from the facility and yet didn't see raiders. That seems
(04:38):
a little odd. And you know, and you can see
that she wants to believe what he said, She wants
to have faith in him, and yet that those doubts
are creeping in. So when he killed that guy after
telling her, oh no, I'll keep him a lot, it's fine. Yeah,
(05:04):
I mean it all just it hit her and she
was angry.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
So there are a couple lessons that I think the
audience at large can take from Joel's you know experience here,
like lies don't equal protection, right, and the girl wants
the truth. And I feel like, you know, speaking about
Eugene specifically, he did the right thing. He could not
(05:30):
have pulled Eugene back there and endangered more people. What
his actions were, okay, but when he messed up was lying, right,
He should have just said, look, you know the deal
we this probably is a rule. It's probably a rule, right,
And he.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Said, so you know we have you know, this, this
whole thing to keep everyone safe. We don't bring them.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Back, right, So don't try to appease her. Don't do
any of that. This was she's nineteen right now, you
know she's old. Look girls, so sorry, I know you
want that for him. I wish I could do that
for him, but I cannot. That would have ended totally different,
you know what I mean, That would have She probably
would have had to bring that conversation up with him
(06:12):
another way because he wouldn't have lied to her in
that moment. But I just I don't know. Joel just
doesn't understand. He thinks he's protecting by lying and is
making it worse.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, and he did try it first, is to say
we can't do this, and he's arguing with both of them, no,
we can't. You know, there are rules, you know, there's
a safety of the settlement in you know, and while
you know she did that one two, three, four five
you hold out your hand test that's still not exact.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
No, that doesn't mean anything. He could be able to
do that now, and in ten minutes he can't.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Right, And the fact that as they're walking back, he
couldn't remember which way to go, yeah, and you could
see him starting to forget things, and he was he
was already on that downhill slide, you know, before she
ever got back with the horse, and the horse says,
(07:09):
I guess, but I guess. For me, I was like,
they have radios, why didn't they just radio and have
him talk to his wife, because that's really all he
wanted was to hear her voice.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Honestly, that would have been so smart. Just radio back
and say goodbye to her, because you cannot we cannot
take you back.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
That was really unfortunate. But that was like the last
straw for Ellie. And she could tell by the way
he just lies to her face like, oh my god,
that was a lie before you and it.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
And the unfortunate thing is his wife could have had
a not a peaceful ending to his end, but at
least taken some comfort, in Joel's words, And so when
Ellie ripped that anger out. It wasn't just a Joel.
I mean she you know, there was a scattershot there.
(08:07):
Everyone was damaged by her anger.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, like I just
said a couple of minutes ago, had Joel handled that
differently if he chose like, let's say they couldn't use
the radios or whatever and he just had to kill Eugene.
I think that whatever lie he told Gail, you know,
I think Ellie would allowed it right because it would
(08:31):
have saved her feelings. But it was because she was
lied to. It was like the last straw. It was
just a word Vomit just came out.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
And you could. I mean she was so mad, Yeah,
so mad. And I'm and I can see Ellie's point
of view. She has been lied to and he has
lied to her for a long time now.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, But.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I also see Joel's. You know, he was trying to
be responsible. He was trying to say that, you know,
he's trying to do the right thing. He really was.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, And I do think he did the right thing.
I do. I think, Yeah, just where he fucked up
was lying. You just can't lie.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And I agree with you yeah. I also as a parent, though,
I also have been there where the kids are blase blaze,
blade blaze, like anything to shut them up. And I
think because they were both just pushing this idea over
(09:38):
and over, I think Joel felt a little trapped.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I don't know, he probably did. And you know, he
was just trying to, you know, figure out a way
to make this happen without you know, too much more pushback. Right,
they were pretty much on him. But even how he
handled his original you know issue getting Ellie away from
the group, right, you know, he killed everyone and he
(10:06):
lied to her. He swore to her that that is
what happened, and then later to never come back. And
I don't know, make it right. I feel like that
was wrong as well. As she got older, he had
the chance to tell her the truth, and he didn't
until he was confronted with it.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah. Well, and he even says why because because I
love you and I don't want I didn't want to
lose your love. Yeah, And you know, we had this
flashback to Joel as a kid and standing up to
his father and trying to protect his younger brother who
had been doing something wrong. But he didn't feel that
(10:46):
he deserved the ass beating that he was apparently going
to get. And then his father was a violent man,
and you with that confrontation in his dad's like, I
hope you do a better job, and he really has.
With his his own daughter, you could see they had
a really close relationship. And then with Ellie mm hmm.
And and I think he was so afraid of losing
(11:09):
that that he was willing to do just about anything
to not break it.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, I think you know, he almost lost it anyway,
m you know, they were astray and she was really
mad at him for what seemed like a while.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
And nine months, according to the little thing at the bottom,
nine months later.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, that's a long time to be ignored, and you
don't really know exactly why. Like, I think he had
a feeling right obviously he wasn't an idiot, but most
men you have to straight out say what the problem is.
So nine months he was remember complaining to Gail, why
will she talk to me? Moaning and grown, and like,
you know, he did something like he doesn't understand. Uh,
(11:57):
so he did lose her? Why or no? Why? Oh,
I don't know. And then in the end, I guess
when he explained himself and what his dad came back
around and he served that line up to Ellie, you know, well,
if you have your own hope, maybe you'll do a
little better than me. That was kind of like, I
guess the time for her to say, I don't know
(12:17):
if I forgive Kim, forgive you, but I want to try.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Right, And those are her last words to him. So yeah,
and I think that also played into because in the
next time she sees him is what he's being beaten
to death.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Yeah. Wow. So honestly, this takes me all the way
back to episode one when I said, oh, I hope
she forgives him before he dies, And I guess she
did kind of right, kind of in her own way.
She obviously wanted to work on it, but she wasn't
as angry with him obviously because the next day she
(12:53):
wanted to go out with him, right, She wanted to
go on the Yeah patrol with him, So she was
willing to move forward, and then that happened.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, And so I mean, if this had happened a
day before, she might not have been quite so vengeful.
But they had their their moment, and and so her
working through what had happened, and her forgiveness of Joel
(13:28):
was taken from her, and the fact that Joel never
had a chance to find out if he was forgiven,
you know, all that was gone. Yeah, so yeah, she
was mad. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And actually, you know, just to kind of jump back
to what you had mentioned about that opening scene where
we're in like nineteen eighty three and we're seeing Joel
and Tommy have this discussion and then their father comes
in and Joel's sitting at the table. I mind are
on edge that whole scene. I'm like, oh my god, Okay,
he doesn't seem like he's gonna do anything, but he could,
(14:07):
you know, at the last minute, he totally could. Like
especially when he's explaining how he just got like sucker
punched in the face by his own dad, I'm like,
oh my god, could be awful. Like I that whole scene,
I was like just sitting there hoping that the father
didn't do anything to him.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Well, and his dad was even like was just trying
to justify I don't know how to be a good parent.
I'm trying here, so and I was better. I was better.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
He was better than his previous you know, his father,
he didn't I guess punch him in the face and
break their jaws and stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
But you know he's like I was. Maybe I wasn't good,
but I was better, and I hope that you can
do better. And I think Joe really took that to
heart with his own daughter. And then when he lost her,
you know, they again with with Ellie and and so
(15:04):
he was trying so very hard, and he was I mean,
he was this really you know, like you said, you know,
with the gifts and the and the the effort that
he was putting into her birthdays. You know, the guitar,
I mean that effort, dude, and you know the the
(15:25):
the dinosaur and the museum and and and finding the
tape of the Apollo yeah uh launched and everything. I
mean that that was pretty that a lot of effort
gifts like that.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I know, I was thinking, I've never I've never gotten
any kind of gift that seemed like that much work.
You know, that was a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Oh yeah, you know, because sometimes gifts don't need to
they don't need to be a thing. It can be
a an experience. And he was giving her these really
good life experiences you know that were had nothing to
do with the hardness of how things had become.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, all the way up until her seventeenth birthday yep,
where you know, he brings the cake and her name
is spelled correctly.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, very thrilled about that.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
He's like kind of happy. He's going in there and
going to her room and she's in there smoking weed,
getting a tattoo and hooking up with the girl. And
he's like, oh my god, he lost his mind.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, And you know, I think as a parent, any
one of those things he could have coked with a
little bit better than all three at once.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
You know, it was a lot. He basically said, you
want to do all the things right, right, all the
things you're gonna do.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
All the teenage angsty things all at one time, right,
And and you could see once he kind of processed
it and calmed down, you know, he's like, okay, yeah,
all right, tak taking a step back here. And he
didn't even say she no, you can't can't move out,
No you can't do this. He's like, it's raining, and
let me clean the garage up. Maybe you're right, maybe
(17:04):
you need some space.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, which although at seventeen, my parents would never they'd
be like, look, you just gonna have to stay here
until further notice. I don't know, she's still a minor
at that point. But that's why I give him credit,
because he did let her move into her own space,
even though she was technically still underaged.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah. And you could see his worry too though, when
he went to the therapist and he's like, mother images,
what does that mean? It's like, what renewed growth? No death? Oh?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, She's like, no, you're confusing that with butterflies. Actually, yeah, yeah,
this is about death. And he just kind of was like, oh, okay, well,
change in tactic required, right, yeah, which is wild. Oh,
speaking of Gail, did you notice the book she was reading.
(18:00):
She was reading the book titled Earth Abides.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Oh geez, you were reading a post apocalyptic book in.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
A Yeah, and what's interesting? Did you watch the show
on MGN plus.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I watched the first episode. I haven't watched the rest
of them.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Oh it was so good. It was one season. It
was really well done. So when I saw that, I said, oh,
my gosh. I know that I didn't read the book,
but I'm sure the book was just as good as
the show. You know, the book's always usually better. Oh yeah,
I'm like, oh, that's kind of interesting, And I wonder
if that indicates anything because in the show, because I
didn't read the book, you know, it was kind of
about growing community and finding others. You know, there are
(18:40):
others out there. So that makes me wonder, are they
trying to indicate that there are other immune people out there?
They just have to find them?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I mean, and statistically speaking, there should be at
least a handful of others scattered around the world. Now
there's a chance that they may not realize it, or
may have been shot before they could, you know, or
killed before they could show that they were immune. Because
(19:12):
Ellie's situation was very unique that she was bitten and
managed to hide it long enough that you know that
she didn't turn, and then that cauts you know, the
Firefly's attention, and I mean, there was this whole series
of events. So I mean, truthfully speaking, there could be
(19:36):
other immune people. They're just being killed because no one's
waiting to find out if they turn or not exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And actually I thought about Eugene in that moment too.
I said, well, how do you know he's gonna turn? Like,
how do you know? Can you just do you do
you wait a certain amount of time, do you look
for some kind of trigger or some kind of flinch?
I don't know, Like what if he's immune. I thought
that in that moment, I said, how do you know, Oh,
you instantly kill people? You would never know? Right?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
And there is you know, because there might be more
for you know, and it may not have to be
quite as unique as her situation. I mean, there could
be someone that has just natural immunity for whatever reason
or another set of circumstances that has created an immunity
in them. But because no one is waiting to find out,
(20:28):
there is no way to know.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Like in Earth a Byes, those people just had natural immunity.
There was nothing special about them. They didn't know how,
they didn't die. It was just a very small, like
very minute group of people that were survivors. So maybe
that's what it is here too, Like they are out there,
there's just not that many of them.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Right And because again statistics say that while things can
be unique, they are unique within a friend, you know,
and there's not a lot of people, and there may
have been more immune. We are further far enough along
in this that if for those that may have immunity
(21:13):
to it, they would be more likely than at the beginning.
But again, because everyone is dedicated to making sure that
anyone bitten is killed, no one's checking. And I don't
think aside from maybe Joel and a handful of other people,
(21:36):
no one's looking for immune people.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Not really, right, I don't think they even really consider it, right, Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So yeah, and so she is probably one of the
few that not only is she immune, she has survived
the initial attack to find out she is immune.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Right, because again, like we said last week, you can
still die of your injuries and be immune, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
And it doesn't turn them away, It doesn't make her
invisible to them or anything else. It just makes her immune.
So it's it's a superpower, but it's you know, mid level.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, it's very midst definitely low on the total pole
when it comes to the crew, right, Like if you're
right on a superhero crew, you're last.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Right, you know, she's fitting, you know she'll survive. But yeah,
you know, if she's eaten she came over.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, so if she bleeds to death from being having
too many bites and make tear off her skin, she's dead. Right, Yeah,
that's it. Right, Well, so you.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Know, I mean, so she has some she has more
protection than the average person, but she is still not
safe in this world.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah. Wow, hmm, there's.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
So much and it's not like now. The interesting thing
is because because they do know that, because they didn't
know that Ellie was immune, they could have actually developed
the test without killing her, to test for whatever it
(23:16):
is that she has in other people. Yeah, you know,
what is it that's in her right now that allows
her to not be turned? And they probably could have
figured that out. Yeah, and more.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Again, with the medicine, they skip so many steps. Why
wouldn't you try to figure out a way to detect
if people were immune? Why would you just assume she's
the only one. If you're a medical doctor, why would
you assume that?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Right? Well, and and Jolie, she asked, did they could
they have cured everyone? And he did say yes, So
there may have been more going on that we didn't
hear about. Yeah, that they were certain that this would work.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
And I think that is not true. But he just
took that information from what he was told, right, because
I still don't believe it. I'm like, how do you
know they would have cured everyone? You know, I don't
think that is accurate at all.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
But now, according to my boyfriend, he said that in
the game one, the facility was way more high tech
and it was not just a doctor. There was a
group of doctors and basically they had everything to make
the cure except for her, and they had been working
(24:41):
on it for a while, using Ellie's blood samples or
whatever they had already gotten. So according to the game
it was a certainty that if she had died, a
cure would have been made.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Okay, so that makes more sense from that person respective,
but just from what we've seen on the screen, it's lacking.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Right exactly. So I mean from my point of view,
from just watching the show, like you you know, it's
what if he I mean, that was that was a
really sketchy setup there, you know, for you know, it
was a you know, it's a dirty o R and
you know, a lot of half broken looking equipment.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
You know, it wasn't even been very bright in there,
if I remember correctly, right, you couldn't see you know, So.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
This was not this was not it for me, you know,
inspiring confidence, right, I agree, But I guess in the
game it was a little more it looked more like
an actual lab, and there were multiple people, and it
wasn't just a doctor, it was a team of doctors.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Well, that makes a lot more sense. I just wish
that the show had went a little bit and they
didn't have to do too much more work to show
that to us. I mean, just a couple of sentences,
spiffy up the hospital a little bit. I don't know,
they could have did a little bit of work to
make us feel like they knew what they were doing.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, because this looked like a throw together and rather
than something that they had been long researching and hoping for.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So, but even still even knowing that, I mean, I
gotta tell you, if someone told me that I had
to let one of my kids die, even to save
the world, I'm not sure I could make the quote
unquote correct choice.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah. And I think that Sha Dina actually have that baby,
and she and they are able to be a family,
and she they're able to, you know, raise a child.
I think they will, you know, understand Joel's point of view,
even more like years later.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Well, and Joel even said, if you have a child
of your own, you understand, you know, and again, as
a parent, I get Joel's motivation. I mean that is
a I don't know that I could comfort myself with
(27:26):
saying I saved the world, but I lost my only child.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I think had that had happened, Joel probably wouldn't even
be around for much longer. Yeah, because he was already
kind of in a horrible place, you know, after he
lost his daughter. He was not that great, you know.
And I think the girlfriend he had was like having
him holding on by the skin of his teeth.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Right, and he lost her, yeah, you know, and his
bridges were slowly being burnt behind him as a traveled,
you know, his network, his connection. Almost every place they touched,
something bad was happening or happened.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
It's it's unfortunate. But I really can't condemn Joel for
the choice that he made. I you know, there's there's
an abstract I could save the world, but I have
to lose my child, which is my world, right, I can't.
(28:38):
It may not have been the correct choice, but I
can't say that it was the morally wrong choice either, right.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I agree. I think that's just hard for anyone to do.
And I stand by what I said. I I think
if a parent did submit and let their child be
the world savior, they wouldn't be long for this earth themselves.
They would feel extreme sadness and guilt over what they'd done,
(29:06):
and they would not be around no longer.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, I mean it would. I could see them sticking
around long enough to to make sure that the sacrifices
that they made were worthwhile.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I guess, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I mean we also have to look at all these
people that are surviving and go, are they even worse saving? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
I don't know. That's a good question, because a lot
of these people are trash, so they're fat.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Okay, great, we're saving people for what? Because I get
the impression that even if you take away the the
underlying cause of the civilization collapse, I don't see a
Kumbaya moment for the world as people are getting cured.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
No, the world is broken, right, It's broken. We've got
so many like little cult like communities out there. You know,
people are just rating and pillaging and raping. I just
I don't see like a cure would just bring everything
back to normal.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Right, because it's not like the world right now is perfect.
It's not a paradise. It's not like bad things never happen,
right to pick up the news, you know, read the
news at all of it to day and go, I
don't know, it's my kid worth saving all of you people,
you know.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
You know, I don't know. You gotta pause and ask that.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Question, you know, and it's and again, I mean, Joel
and Elliet are living in a really good community, but
they are one of the very very few. Actually, it's
the only one we have seen that isn't either on
the verge of collapse at war with another group or
completely oppressing their people.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
M hmm.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
And I don't even with a cure, I can't see
like the military, you know, compounds that they've used to
suppress people would change. I mean, and they could actually
get worse, right, since there's no outside force to distract them.
(31:24):
So yeah, I mean, I'm not saying that a cure
wouldn't be a good thing. I just don't know that
everyone else is worth saving it because my child exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Exactly. And I think that even now Ellie understands that,
because Ellie's like, yeah, I know what he did and
I don't care, you know, She's like, I'm still gonna
get revenge. So even though Ellie thought Hey, this was
(32:03):
my task, that was my contribution. That was what I
was here for. She really believed that.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
But now that she's out among the world and seeing
all the people, Yeah, I mean there might be some
reconsideration going on, do you No, I don't know about this.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Made the right choice, yeah, absolutely, And now they can
have a family and they can live a life that
you know, Ellie never saw for herself. So I think
in the long run, she's gonna be very happy that
he did what he did, right. So, yeah, I don't know.
I'm curious to see what's next. This was a much
(32:45):
needed episode. We needed it to get like a full
understanding of the happy times and the revelations and make
us feel sad to see I think that's the last
of Joel. I think it is.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, it is. This was there. This was their final
goodbye to Joel. You know, I will say so. The
very end of it is is Ellie walking through the rain,
and all I could think of is, thank god there's rain.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
I thought, Okay, because I said, after our conversation last week,
I'm like, well, maybe the rain will get rid of
whatever she has going on with her.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, and she soaked. Yeah, so I mean there's a
Because I mean there's a it would be awful for her,
you know, turn them. Although I did want to mention
too the tree when they were coming back from the museum.
Did you notice the tree?
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Oh, it had like fireflies around it, didn't it?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
No, those are the spores.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Oh it was spores. I'm like, what is that floating
in the air. I just assumed they were like fireflies
or something.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
No, those were sportes.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Oh my gosh. She saw it and she stopped. It
looked was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
She didn't say anything, well because I'm not sure she
knew what they were. She caught her eye. But in
the conditions, well not as dark as the basement. They
were wet and it was secluded and you know whatever, whatever,
the conditions were right for that. So I think next
(34:23):
season we may see more of these spores in the air,
because again she did notice them there at the tree.
And now we've had a whole, you know, a couple
of episodes with the basement, so I think this is
going to be the the spores are developing, you know,
(34:44):
beyond a bite, so I mean, I guess if they
become completely airborne, you know, she's gonna find out if
there's any more like her.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Yeah, absolutely find out pretty quickly probably. Yeah. So so I
gotta say, I don't know. I heard some people talking
about Emmy's and I think if there's a chance for
some Emmy nominations to come out of this, it would
be this episode. Honestly, Pedro and Bella did amazing in
(35:17):
this episode.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
This was I really did enjoy this episode. I thought
it was quite stellar.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I honestly think it's my favorite of this season just
because of all of the emotion that was going on.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
And I would probably agree. I think I'm gonna agree
with you on that it was. It was a good
I mean, it was a tight episode, and it had
filled in all of the blanks that that were there
from the beginning of the season, and but in a
way that didn't make it didn't make it feel.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
It wasn't bogged down. Yeah, just enough.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, I was gonna say, like plastered over. Yeah, so yeah,
I did. I think they did a really good job.
And there was even like questions that we I guess
we kind of had, but we didn't really pay attention to,
like the coffee beans. Yeah, you know why Joel and
(36:17):
the therapists were had so much tension between the two
of them, you know, when they know that killing someone
that's been bitten is what's needed and they shouldn't be
brought back to the community. But but why, you know,
and the whole what started the split between her and
(36:38):
Joel and everything else. It was just really nice to
have those gaps filled in.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, you know, speaking of the therapist, Gal, I think
that does resonate, like why she feels like she should
have you know, why she was open to helping Joel
even though she couldn't stand him really, yeah, you know,
because she, like you said, those are the rules. So
she knew even though her husband wanted to see her,
(37:04):
he wanted to say goodbye to her, that it really
technically wasn't Joel's fault that he didn't right, he did
the action, but the rules are you're not supposed to
bring affected beings back here, right, So.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
And it wouldn't have mattered who it was that found him,
they would have done the same.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Thing, right, So she kind of has has this selfish
disstain for him because that's her husband, right, But on
the other side, she also knows that she really should
not be and you know, directing it at him specifically,
I think, right, So you know that's what where we.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Are well, and I understand. And even when Joel was
he lied to both you know, Ellie and and was
it Eugene m hm. He at least tried to do
to make Eugene's death not so terrifying to Eugene. You know.
(38:02):
He he took them to this really beautiful place, you know,
and and said, you know, you can always see your
wife's if you love someone, you can always see their face, yeah,
you know. And and and let him have that moment,
let him gather his courage and his you know, his
love for his wife. He didn't just shoot him as
(38:25):
soon as Ellie walked away. He gave them that time
to to come to terms with his own death.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah, he was nice about it.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
He was. He was He wasn't cruel, you know, he
wasn't you know, vicious or you know, disdainful. I mean,
he was very much aware of the gravity of this
death and he didn't want to make it any harder
than it had to be on anyone. Right, So you
(38:55):
know the sad thing is is I Ellie lashing out
to him would have been better if she had lashed
out at him while they were on the trail rather
than when he was talking to them to the widow.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Yeah, I don't know. I think Joel is like the
ultimate you know, he's a very great character. But I
want to say, at his root, he is a good person.
He just did some bad things along the way, yeah,
because he thought that he had to, right, So he's
(39:33):
definitely not a villain. And I think that is why
Ellie is like so bent on getting revenge. She's a
good guy. That was her dad, even though she didn't
want to admit it, right, right, he was. He adopted
her essentially.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
And I mean he loved her as much as he
had loved his own daughter, right and and not and
not even in the exact same way, you know. I
mean this was she may have started off as a replacement,
that she became her own, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, I think Ellie saved him really yeah, in a way.
And can I just say that song, Oh God, I
was like, not another song, please God, But we got
another song. It was fine. It worked out fine.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
So yeah, I really, like I said, I really enjoyed
this episode. I thought it was I thought it was
really good.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah. Same, So we had one episode left. Who knows
what it's gonna be in that episode. I did see
a little quick, little snippet whatever for next week, but like, okay,
I'm just not gonna try to even guess because I
don't know. I don't know anything.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah, an absolutely redirect for you, making you think it's
gonna be one thing and it could be something completely different.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
So yeah, it was a bunch of little flashes things,
so we don't really know much of anything, you know,
like how they did last time when we saw Dina
holding the gun and we're like, why is she holding
the gun on her?
Speaker 2 (41:07):
But you know, right, I mean why she you know,
once we saw the episode, Oh that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
It makes complete sense. Yeah, totally. But yeah, yeah, so
we'll see. I'm excited for the finale. Actually, I am too.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I mean, they've done a really good job. I haven't
been disappointed with any of the episodes, you know, this
whole season. They've they've really done and even though it's
a very short season, I think they've done a really
good job of moving the story along.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
And actually, that's my perfect scenario for any of these shows.
I'd rather have a short, succinct season that everything makes sense.
We're not wasting hours looking at things that don't move
the plot forward, things that just you know, we've watched
some you know, seasons of things where they had so
(41:55):
much wasted time. So this was really well done. It's
a type play. It's a tight story. They are following
the games, which is probably the reason why it's so good.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Yeah, I'm happy too. This is like a really nice,
nice experience.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
It is. It's been very pleasant.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah. Absolutely, Okay, I think that's it for me. Do
you have anything else?
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Nope, I don't believe so Okay.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Well, this has been a really fun time. Thanks for
listening to the entire episode. We both appreciate you for
doing that. Don't forget to like and subscribe wherever you
are listening, because we'll be back again next week for
the finale and you'll want to make sure you get
that notification. Also, if you enjoyed the discussion, please leave
a five star rating wherever you are listening. That really
helps us out. Until next time, take care of yourselves.
(42:52):
Bye guys, Oh bye.