Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. We are here
breaking down the last of US Season two, episode seven, Convergence,
the season finale. I'm your host, Tamara, and I am
glad you've hit play on today's episode. Please follow us
on all of your favorite social media platforms. The links
for both me and Lisa are in the show notes.
If you like what you hear, please hit that subscribe button.
(00:24):
You won't want to miss a single episode.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well when we.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Come back next We don't know when that will be,
but we'll be back and you don't want to miss us.
Joining me today is JOCO host Lisa.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Lisa, Hey, Tamara, Hey everyone. My name is Lisa Orban.
I am an author. I am also the founder of
Indies United publishing house, and I love all things pop culture.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
All righty, so, if you are new to the podcast,
we are laid back in our review style, right.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Lisa, absolutely, Tamora. This is a conversation out a dissertation.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yes, no scene by scene breakdowns here. We jump around
and of course huge spoiler alerts. So the only spoilers
you don't really have to worry too much about ore
from the game, as we didn't play it. Now, personally,
I did hear a couple of things here and there,
but I'm going to try to pull it together and
not spill the dirt.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
So right and right.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
My boyfriend played the game, so he drops things on occasion.
But you know, yeah, there are Just keep in mind
if you if you haven't played it, there are multiple endings,
so there are there are multiple possibilities that could happen
now that the season finale, you know, for the next season.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, so neither of us played, but you know we
have We have ways to find out things, so just
be knowledgeable of that. And actually, I had an experience yesterday,
so heads up, be careful on social media because you
will mess around and get spoiled. I learned a lesson.
I was watching a video and it showed me something
(01:51):
I wasn't really ready to see. So just keep your
eyes peeled when you're looking at shorts and other things
that are comparing the game to the show. You might
get a surprise you weren't expecting. So okay, here we are.
What did you think of the finale, Lisa?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Ah, Oh, it's about how I feel about it.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
So my initial reaction I literally said, what the bleep
at the end, I said, what the did I just watch?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
What was that? I was so irate?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
I was too. I was really upset about Jesse dying. Yeah,
I really, I really thought he was gonna make it through.
I'm not gonna lie, and partially because of the game.
I know this because then but no, I so apparently
they went with one of the alternate endings. And I
(02:50):
don't know. I really like the character Jesse he was.
I mean, he was a goodie two shoes, don't get
me wrong, but he really was trying.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
She was.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
He didn't believe in what they were doing, he didn't
believe in what was going on, but man, he was there.
He came for her. Well, I think he mostly came
for Dina, but you know, even still right.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So I kind of feel like Jesse. I feel like
he thinks he's a good guy, and generally he is,
but I think he thinks life is more black and
white than it really.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Is, and there is that, and I do agree with that.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, he thinks he's making the best choices and Ellie
is not. And Ellie basically calls him out for that
during the episode. She said, you think you're good and
I'm bad. Wait a minute, Yeah, and I kind of
do agree. So I agree with both of them. I
think they both did things that were right for themselves.
And that doesn't mean that one was correct and one
(03:55):
was wrong.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It was just different, right and she I mean.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
That scene the young kid and Ellie wants to go
after him and he stops her. He's like, no, there's
six of them, there's two of us. Yes, this isn't
our fight. Yes, and that is true, it's not their fight.
You know, his primary goal at this point is to
get Dina and everyone out safely, and that is not
a terrible goal to have.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
No, I feel like self preservation is important, right, Yes,
and I agree. That's why I said I kind of
agree with some of the stuff he's doing too, because
if that were me, you, I would.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Feel bad for the child.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
But he has seen things, right, He's been out there,
so he's probably seen them kids acting bad. So even
you know the one scene where we see the I
cannot oh, the saraphights, you know, the mother's asking the kid,
what do we do?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Right, yeah, and she's like kill them?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So the kids are out here committing murder and attacking
people and doing hanging people and they're doing all the
bad stuff to each other, not.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Just the adults, right, I mean the kids are just
as involved. Yeah, in this entire thing, which is honestly terrible.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
You know what happens when you jump into someone's business,
you try to help someone, and they turn around a
stab you.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Right, No, so in that case it was fine. Jesse
was right.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And again, I mean I can see Ellie's point of
view because she has very much always been the outsider.
But again, there's a really good chance that they could
have even if they could have saved this kid, the
kid turning on them.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yes, yeah, like, oh thanks for the safe, but now
I'm going to kill you.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Right exactly, because these on both sides what is basically
they are religious zealots and the other are military inzelates.
I mean, there there is no quarter being given, right,
you know that there's no there's definitely no Geneva convention
(06:04):
going on here, exactly. Everything is fair in love and war,
and yeah, I mean no quarter is given, and it's
it's not a h The only end to this is
if their one side is completely annihilated or they annihilate
the each other mm hmmm, which to me doesn't even
(06:28):
make any sense because at this point, again, it's not
like the world is very crowded.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
No, it's not.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
One side or the other could just go Okay, here's
the line, and we're gonna go this way and you're
gonna go that way. There's nothing special about Seattle.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Well okay, So I think at least for our from
our point of view as non players of the game,
we don't know the history yet. I know we're gonna
get it eventually, and maybe that history will make us
understand why this war is so serious, you know, why
there is no give. Well, probably it better makes sense
(07:08):
when we do get it.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I know that.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, better, Yeah, I mean, I do know that in
a lot of these shows, you know, the not just
the ones that are based on video games, but you know,
there is you know, there's them and us and and
we have discussed on the Walking Dead. If we had
followed one of these other groups instead of our primary group,
(07:34):
we might have, you know, we might have been more
sympathetic to the other side and less sympathetic to the
people we're following because we're invested in those characters exactly.
And in a lot of these cases, there really aren't
any good or bad guys. There are just people trying
to survive and they do bad things to survive. But
(07:59):
in this case, in this show, I mean, this is yeah,
this is just gonna be annihilation on both sides. There's
there are no good guys here. I mean, in any respect,
none of the viewpoints are No one's a good guy,
yeah right, not even Ellie. She's not a good guy
(08:20):
in this.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Nor is Jesse.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
That's the whole thing. Like, we go back to this,
their shades of gray all over the place. There is dark.
There are bad people, they are great, great people. I
don't think there's anyone exactly quote unquote good anymore.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Right. The only difference is we have followed Ellie for
two seasons now, and so we are invested in her
survival because we want her to survive, because we have
watched her journey. But I don't know that we would
be any less sympathetic to Abby if we had followed
her for this entire show, Right, I Abby is the
(09:01):
bad guy, and I get it, you know, from from
Ellie's point of view. But then again, you know, Abby
didn't start off as a bad guy, and she started
off as a.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Kid, and to be fair, she left her alive.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, she left her alive.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
She left Dina, Dina alive, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So it wasn't a slaughter all. It was a very
focused execution. So it was a messy, but it was
on one person and one person only, correct. So I
kind of, and I said this before, I kind of
understand Abby's like aggression and anger, right. I feel like
(09:48):
she felt justice needed to be done, and she kind
of did. I don't think she was wrong in her
efforts either. So it's really murky water, right, right, Like
we want Ellie to survive and get through this, but
for me, she was making dumb decisions almost the entire episode.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Right, because she should have gone after Tommy. If she
had gone after Tommy and gone back and gotten Dina,
the ending never would have happened, right, It just wouldn't have.
They would have gotten out of there. More than likely
they would have gotten out of there and been able
to go home.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
But Ellie, you know, I mean she follows the people.
She's in a boat, she capsizes, she's captured, she's almost hung,
and when she finally breaks free, instead of going you know,
maybe this is a little extreme, she just keeps going.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, Honestly, like the energizer Bunny or something. I'm like,
isn't your ass exhaust?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
It was? It was kind of wild, like she just
kept going and going.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
And it's like and she didn't stop until yeah, until
she did. And I don't I don't think she want
I know she didn't want to kill those people.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
No, she didn't, but you know what, her reflexes were good.
So she found what owen and I can't remember the
other guy's name, the other girl's name who died, but
she found some of Abby's people and she said where
are they?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Where? She tell me?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And actually, did you notice she kind of pulled the
same map thing that Joel did last season. So she
tries it, it fails, and she tells them. She tells them,
I don't want to kill you because I'm not you.
I just want to know where Abby is, right, and
I think they kind of believed her. But he was
going for his gun, he was going to get he
(11:44):
was going to kill her, and she it was a
stand off and she just reacted fast. But you can
tell from the look on her face she was jarred
that that happened.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Right, And then when she found finds out the woman's pregnant. Oh,
I mean that that was her. I think that was
her breaking point when she went, okay, I have gone
too far.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So if it were you, if you were Ellie and
the woman's telling you to just cut and get it out,
and you didn't know what you were doing, would you
have cut anyway to do it, to try or would
you have been more like shell shocked like Ellie and
probably not done anything.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I would have tried. Knowing my personality, I would have tried.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Yeah, that's what I think, because I kept in that moment,
I'm like, I know.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
You don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I know you're scared, but try, That's what I was
thinking to the TV.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I might just try, like just try.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I mean, you're not gonna hurt anything any worse, right,
the kid is gonna die, period, so you could at
least attempt to try to save the child, right.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
So, although that would have brought on some additional complications, but.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
There it would have. But that woman was a doctor,
right or in medical so.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
And she was trying to describe what to do, but
she was saying it in medical terminology that Ellie just
didn't understand. Yeah, and you and she kept telling you're
doing a good job. You're doing a good job.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
She's fading away out of this world, and she could
not figure out to change her terminology because her brain
was shutting down. She's just saying, well, she knew, right,
And I think if the it was impossible for the
child to live, she probably wouldn't have said anything right
because she would know right right.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I mean, she was she had to be at least
eight months along, if not nine. She was closed, which
is probably why she was tucked away mm hmm, to
keep her. I mean, there's no good reason for her
to go into battle exactly. And so yeah, I think,
(14:05):
knowing myself, I mean I would have been I have
a tendency to be very focused during an emergency and
then fall apart after. Yeah, that's generally how I react.
I get very still inside and I just focus on
whatever it is I'm trying to do, and then once
the emergency is over, then I have my panic attack.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
But it's convenient, Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think, you know, again,
that kind of plays to I think at least age
she's young still, I'd like to think that if that
were me, i'd, you know, have the gumption to just
get it done and cry about it later. Yeah, but
(14:47):
you know, she's young, and it shows. It feels like
she kind of reverted back a couple of years as
well during that scene.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
But I don't know.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, I mean, I mean the react actually to panic
and to when you when you know you don't know something,
to freeze is very very common. And she was in shock.
You know. She she didn't she hadn't meant to kill them.
I mean, she was willing to, don't get me wrong,
but she didn't want to. And she didn't know the
(15:19):
woman was pregnant. And if she had known, I don't
know that she would have been more careful. She tried
to be more careful. I don't know, but it did
very much change her what was going on it. I
think it kind of snapped her out of the whole
what am I doing here? I still want my revenge.
(15:40):
I still want to go after Abby, but is it
worth the cost? The cost finally really hit her, you know,
And it has been kind of slowly building with Dina
getting shot in the leg and you know this, you know,
the the other small things going along, and sitting there
(16:02):
in front of this pregnant woman who's trying to describe
how to cut the baby out of her as she dies.
Was just that was it. It was a lot. Yeah, and
I think that that full realization of how far she
has gone really hit her.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Well, I hope so. But at least now right, she's done,
now we know this.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
She said it as much to Jesse and Tommy. You know,
Tommy asked her, are you okay with this? No, I'm
not really okay, but I'm okay more or less. I'm
not I want to go after Abby, but I am
okay not to anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Too bad she couldn't come to that realization a little sooner.
But exactly, you know, she had to go through the motions,
I guess.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I mean you would think that after being hung that
might have been a realization or any of the other
you know, any of the other things. But she might
have even what maybe even a push her though, is
how she brutally beat Zoe. And as a justification for
that beating, I have to continue on.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Well, you know, I think in that moment she was
really trying to be kind of what Joel was right.
She's like, she learned from Joel this is how you
have to be right and I think she was trying
to reflect that, but when it came down.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
To it, she couldn't. She couldn't do it. She didn't
pull it off.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
And I think it Joel there, he would have cut
the baby out.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, but you know, Joel just he did separate himself, right,
he can just do the thing like he just shot
a bunch of people in that hospital and he moved on.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Right, So at least not that way exactly, even though
she wants to be. I mean, Joel is was her world,
was her community, was her people. You know, everything she
is right now she is. It is a reflection on
who Joel was as a person to a large extent.
(18:13):
And while Ellie, Ellie already was very similar to Joel
before she ever met him, he had a profound influence
on her. And there's no way that he couldn't have
had a profound influence on her.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Right, Yeah, well that was a cluster. So what did
you think when she got to that island? But honestly,
first off, I have to say the first thing I
thought when she goes and she gets in the boat
and then the waves are going like crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Sure, asks know how to swim? When did you.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Learn how to swim. You were in a place where
there's like, no, well, maybe there's some big bodies of water,
I guess, But you know, instantly I'm like, that's not
any kind of rain. Those waves are really high. It
was almost actually I know that probably I think it's
called the punch it sound. I think it's called But
I didn't even know waves like that could look like
that in that area. But okay, that's another thing. But
(19:10):
I'm like, you can you even swim in that.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Kind of water? You out here paddling this, you know,
got this little motor boat that's nothing, weighs nothing. It
seemed almost unreal.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
She gets the little island, she's washes up on the island,
and then she's instantly like in trouble. You know, I'm like,
this is the most wildest stuff. I don't know what
I thought about that section.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, she was trying to follow the bigger trying to
follow the boats more or less.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
You know they were going to do bad, and the
only thing that saved her was the fact that the
other boats made it to their village and is in
the process are probably annihilating them, because I'm sure that's
what the plan is right, and it's gonna be every man,
woman and child.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
So yeah, yeah, and again she at that point she
should have just she should have cut her losses, but
she didn't.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Like these people. They about to string me up and
murder me. I think it's time for me to leave.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Right, you know, I think this is you know, I
can come back to this at a later time. You know,
Abby's not going anywhere. I mean, and with this war
going on, there's a good chance Abby wasn't gonna make
it anyway, right, I mean, this is again, this is
one of those situations where the only end to it
(20:45):
is either one side or both. You know, one side
annihilates the other, they both die because there's just there
is no other end to this.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I don't even think it's a case where they can
unlet's take it. Take the only kids they could probably say,
would probably be under the age of five, you know,
as far as you know, the the wolves going after
the Sarahphits, because these kids are indoctrinated exactly if they
brought him back, I'm pretty sure they'd kill kill whoever
(21:21):
kept him in their sleep, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, so you know the w L off is like,
we're gonna go to this island, We're gonna take them out,
you know, a massive assault on them. And of course,
during that little scene where we get you know, Isaac
talking to that woman who had to let her child die,
can't remember her name, you know, we find out or
he finds out that, you know, Owen, Mel that's the
woman's name, mel An, Abbey are all missing.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
So I guess what are they missing?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
What are they off doing?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
I mean, they probably have a plan of sorts. I'm
sure God only knows what it is.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Well, we knew that they were talking about, so Mel
and Owen were talking about meeting Abby somewhere, and Mel
kind of was like, dude, I don't want to do it.
I'm out, I don't have to do this because it's Abby,
because you know whatever. So we don't know exactly what
they were going to be doing. But based on how
Abby looked in that last scene where you know she
(22:27):
shoots at Ellie, she had bruises on her neck, so
I'm assuming she had some kind of run in with
the Saraphights, which we're gonna probably see now that we
know that, we're going back to day one in.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Seattle from point of view mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So maybe we get to see what her and her
people were up to during those times because something and
obviously that scene was there to let us know something
was going on. They've been off the radar.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah. Well, and the Wolf community does seem a lot
looking out it's a lot bigger than I thought it was.
I mean, that was a huge area that they had
people milling around in because so far, really all we've
seen is the military mm hmm. And she was looking
(23:19):
out over what would I would assume is the civilian population.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, probably they've got to have some civilians.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
They've got to they have to have farmers. People have
to be fed, right, I mean, you.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Know they have medical staff, so they've got to have
other people there.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Yeah, and what do they say in army moves on
its belly, So yeah, I mean they'd have to have farmers,
they'd have to have people that, you know, the support
structure for this whole thing. And uh so yeah, it's
there's a lot more than we had original had originally
(23:59):
been exposed to.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Right, So what did you think about you know, when
Jesse at the very beginning was helping Dina pull that
thing out of her leg and she's kind of like
babbling because she's like really scared and it's hurting, and he's.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Like, shut up. He's like, I got you. Just chill out,
like basically, and you know what you're doing, right, And she.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Refuses the alcohol. He instantly knows something is wrong.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yeah. The only thing I'm really going to say about
that scene is he really should cut the fletching off.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
WHOA, maybe he didn't have anything to cut it off with.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I'm just saying, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Sure that shit hurt, like hell, oh yeah, it hurt unbelievably,
but he did it. And then later, you know, he
kind of confronts, you know, Ellie with it, like, you know, she.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Refused the alcohol. She never gave up a free drink in.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Her life, right, she knows something's up, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, yeah, what you know she says?
Speaker 1 (25:07):
You know, she kind of tells him or he guesses
and she confirms, and she's like, oh, shoot, you were guessing.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Oh no, you didn't, you were just guessing. Oh my god,
Oh my god, Like I'm gonna tell you she is. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, and I realized my Dina was was keeping
it from him because him knowing would change his attitude,
which it very much did.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Well, I think it intensified his attitude. He already had
like his game plan to find Timmy and get the
hell out of there.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
But now he's like, now, nothing can happen.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
To me now because I have a child, So now
we all have to get the hell out of here
right now. So you're right, he already had his mission,
but it's like he is really honed in now, he
is focused, and then he dies.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
And then he dies.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Well, you know, I knew somebody was gonna die at
the end of this episode. Yeah, I said, there's no way,
after all of this drama, they were just gonna skip
off back home. Somebody was gonna die. I just didn't
think it would be Jesse.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
I I truthfully, I kind of thought it was gonna
be Tommy. M hm. And it's not that Tommy's not
in a bad way. He is. He has been shot,
but he is still alive. But Jesse was shot in
the head.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
So man, he opened that door and he dropped to
the ground.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
I will say, in that circumstance, I would not have
busted through that door quite so vigorously, right, because you
know that there's a shooter on the other side. There's
at least one person, right, and and I realized there's
a And I am sure for Jesse it was again
(27:04):
he was so focused on making sure Dina and the
baby were safe, he did, you know, all other considerations
flew out the door.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, and he would still be alive if he had
just he might still be alive if he just kind
of like cracked the door and took a little peek, right,
I don't know. I said he barged in there and
got shot right in the head, right, And I guess.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Look, even if they had picked a different door, like
one of the further ones down, because this was a theater,
which means there's multiple ways out of that theater, if
they if they had each gone a separate direction, m
taken a far door. She covered both doors. Of course,
they didn't know if it was just one person or
(27:50):
multiple people or what was going on, right, But yeah,
I would have not gone through the main door.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, even though I know with the shooting it's kind
of probably hard to see exactly where in the lobby
is coming from, but it would have made sense to
split up if nothing else, And honestly, the only thing
that saved Ellie were her shorter legs because they were
both running for the door as fast.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
As they could. Yes, and I mean honestly, and I
do realize in this case scenario that it may not
have been a stranger firing again. It could have been
Tommy firing again, because you know, one of the mushroom
people had come in.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
H But.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
I guess the one thing that I'm kind of shocked
about is the fact that they had the bar the
door barred. Did they forget to bar it? Did they
did she come in through some other opening? And how
to track them down?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Look, I guess we'll out next season. We better because
it's very interesting. How did she find them? But then again,
I'm like, they.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Got the lights on this stuff in there.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I mean, they just made themselves all comfortable. I'm like,
you guys don't even seem like you're hiding. Yeah, I'm
curious to see how they find out. How she finds
out where they are because she came right there, so
she tracked them or someone saw them something, yep, something, Yeah,
because it seems like they had just left.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Those two.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Friends of Abby's they got back there, they weren't there
for very long before she shows up, So she was
right behind them, right.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
I mean, and maybe she was just coming in when
they were leaving and she just followed them back, which
at that point that would make sense. Yeah, and she
waited for them to let their guard down.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Well that's what, yeah, I'm telling you. Abby is so
much more aggressive than Ellie is. Yeah to me, and actually,
in doing my little internet sleuthing, the gamers are really
unhappy with Ellie's character for that reason.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So a great example that I heard.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Was that, you know, when Ellie was defending kind of
like trying to help that child, that is soft to them, Like,
how dare they do that to that character in the
game that Ellie would have never she knew what was
going on, she knew the risk, she wouldn't have done that.
So they on purpose softened Ellie's character for the TV show.
(30:48):
They made personality changes.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
And I think she's still blood thirsty, don't get me wrong, but.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
She's softer though, and you can tell. I think like
Abby left her alive, but I don't think it was
out of the kindness of her heart. I just think
she just was like, I'm here for one thing and
that's not you right, focused, Yeah, and I mean the
quickness how she shot.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Down Jesse Jussie. I'm like, damn, she is not playing No,
she is not.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
And then the way the gun went off, she said,
I'd let you live and you squandered it.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Bam.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Oh this woman is not playing around. Ellie would sit there,
let's make a deal and bargain or you know. I
feel like Ellie would not have done the same thing.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
No, No, I don't think, because she really was. I
mean she told Zoe that she wasn't gonna kill her.
She did well, actually no, she didn't know, left her
to mutate.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, she left her music. I mean, she's dead already.
There's nothing you could do.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Right, But I don't I think if she had given
up where where she was, where Abby was, I think
she would have let Zoe live, tied up, I'm sure,
or some such, but I think she would have let
her let her go, just like I'm pretty sure she
would have let the other two go if they had
(32:23):
just given her what she wanted, because she wasn't interested
in any of them.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I mean, we remember the beginning of that scene, right,
she did say kind of the same, essentially the same thing.
I don't want to hurt you. Just tell me where
Abby is, right, and then the girl ran off, It
ran down into the basement of her own accord. And
you know, yeah, I think she would have been just
fine if she had just said, hey, Abby is.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
At the aquarium. Good day.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
But you know, things don't ever work like that. So
but yeah, Ellie is a very different person. And the
gamers are mad, they are very upset. They do not
like it at all. But as a watcher, I don't
mind it, yeah, because we have to see a difference,
you know.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Right, well, and since we're not gamers, this is our interest,
you know, this is our our only reference to what
Ellie who Ellie is. So yeah, I can see where,
you know, someone who has played the game, if she
is significantly different, why that would be upsetting. But in
a video game, nuance is really not a thing, right,
(33:35):
you know, you can, I mean, every every video game
has its own rules, but they really you don't really
explore the quiet moments. You know. It's you know, you
either have to kill so many people or you have
to go find a specific thing or whatever, and it'll
have like little interactions, but you don't really explore any characters.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Well, I don't know. I saw comparison.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
You know the scene where you know, when Ellie comes
back and she's like, where's Dina and she's in that
you know, dressing room or whatever in that moment where
she's like, Oh, take off your shirt, let me help
your back, or you know that interaction between.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Them that was in the game.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Okay, so it's like they do have some things there
to kind of grow the characters in a different kind
of way and show some other sides besides the murdering
and you know, goal setting. But yeah, I don't know.
I kind of wish I could play the game, but
I'm just not a gamer. I probably wouldn't be able
(34:37):
to get past very much time before I gave up
on it like that. But I kind of wish I would,
just so I could see what everyone's you know, so
upset about.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
But maybe I should have paid more attention when my
boyfriend played it, because he, again, he's one of those
people that it's not enough to win the game. Oh no,
every trophy, every award and find every ending and then
he's done once he has completely ransacked the game. So
(35:10):
if I had watched him play it, I would have
probably a really good idea kind of personally was but
I mean, but they but they do that to all
these characters Fallout and he actually did like Fallout, but
it is it is different, you know, and and characters
(35:31):
have more death to them. And and I think in this,
in this show, they have more depth that they that
they can give you in a video game.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Another show that you know, this is this little side note,
but another show that Kevin absolutely hated and constantly complained about.
And I thought the show was fine, but because they
did a different treatment for Master Chief Halo. Yeah, they
complained so bad that the helmet kept coming off.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Yeah, because in the they had it in the video game.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Never never comes to every one, Right, I'm like, of
course the actor wants his face on screen.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Of course. Anyway, but back to that scene.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I thought that scene between Ellie and Dina was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
You know, she.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
And I think it's again it she kind of shows
Ellie's immaturity.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
You know. Dina had given her some really.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
In depth sad stories about herself, and Ellie never gave
up what happened. She never gave up why they came
for Joel until then. And she tells her She's like, oh,
that's why they came, and you could tell she was
kind of pissed off about it. Yeah, rightfully so, because
I do feel like by not telling all the things,
(36:53):
it was kind of a live a mission and you
did not give her the proper and for for her
to make a smart choice for herself about going into
that situation.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
You know, there's a really good possibility if she had
known the reason why Abby came after Joel was because
Joel had killed her father. In every every firefly in
that building, I mean, that puts Joel in a very
different light.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Oh yeah, everyone would have been voting no right.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
No one would have wanted to do that for you know,
they probably would have thought it was it wasn't fair obviously,
you know, the way Joel died was dreadful and not right.
You know, I still feel like Abby could have just
shot him and been done with it. But I don't
think anyone would have been trying to run and help
(37:49):
Ellie with this if they knew the whole truth, which
is probably why.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
She kept it to herself.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
But being met, now, this is your girlfriend, right, you're
talking about being the dad to her baby. You should
tell her and she did eventually, but I don't know,
but that shows, you know, Dina's maturity because even after that,
you know, yeah, she was pissed.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
But what did she do.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
She gave her a bracelet for good luck, so she's like, yeah,
we'll talk about this later, essentially, but go handle this
good luck. Come back to me and we'll I'll cut
your ass out later, right.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
And I think, you know, partly because she didn't want
Abby going out there, yeah, with the burden of you know,
are things over between me and Dina before they even
really started, right? And I think, you know, her telling
Abby when she did how she did was a bit
of self sabotage m h where she really was doubting
(38:50):
herself and and I think she wanted someone to to
be mad at her, and someone who and it couldn't
have been Jesse because Jesse is Jesse. You know, she
needed the And I really think at that point, if
if Dina had pushed more, she probably could have stopped
(39:14):
at or Ellie, because I think that's part of why
she told her, why she what she did, mm hmm.
But you know, but neither did.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I kind of feel like Ellie just needed to unload, like,
you know, all that stuff just happened.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah, and she's like, I think she.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Was kind of surprised that she had feelings about what
had happened and she needs to unload it.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, And who do you trust? You trust? Dina?
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Right, Dina's the only one we trust. Oh maybe Tommy.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, you know Tommy she thinks would understand her light,
So maybe him.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yeah, But.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I just I like Dina more and more because you
can tell she's very mature about things, much more than Ellie.
Ellie's got so maturing to do, even though she's more
mature than she was at fourteen right in season one.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
But oh, he's still very she's very impulsive. Yeah, and
you know she's she's very trigger trigger happy. But yeah,
I mean they're a good compliment to each other, I think.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, I think so. I think.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
I really like them as a couple, and I hope
we get to see them actually reach that full couple status.
I don't know, I mean, is Ellie alive?
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Is she not alive?
Speaker 1 (40:52):
That's you know that fate that black you know, you
hear the shot and then nothing, right, we are left
with if well, we know the gamers now, but anything
could happen.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
The show can do anything they want exactly.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
And we also know from that snippet to when it
pivots over to Abby and day one in Seattle. You know,
at least I'm going to assume, if not all, but
at least the beginning of next season is going to
be focused on Abby's story, what's going on there, what's
(41:28):
what they've been doing their preparations for this assault.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
And I'm gonna say I agree with that, even I'd
dare to push a little further and even say probably
most of the season is going to be Abby and
her team is the point. They're the leads, and then
Ellie if she's still there, and Dina and Tommy will
(41:55):
be secondary story. They're gonna flip flop places.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yeah, I honestly think it'll probably be the last episode
where it catches us up to the present of now,
you know, with finale, and it'll jump to that to
that shot, yeah, or even the lead up. You know again,
maybe she followed him from from that uh, from the
(42:21):
aquarium or whatever, and that last episode takes us up
to present and we find out what happens after.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
That, right, I you know, if that second season, a
third season, excuse me, could start exactly a year from now.
I would be so excited, But I had heard it's
like two years away.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Yeah, that's that's a long time to wait.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
That is a very long time to get disengaged and
find move on from it, especially you know we won't
have Pedro Pascal anymore. They better watch it. I don't know,
people lose interest. They better hurry up, maybe surprise people
and come out in eighteen months instead.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Yeah, I mean it kind of surprises me because they
knew that there was going to be a third season,
they'd already been greenlit for it. I don't understand why
they didn't just roll right into the production of it.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Yeah, I agree, Why not just get it done? Yeah,
because you know, they can mess around with all the
effects and things like that for longer, but get the
guts of it recorded, you know, I don't know filmed.
But I think they're making a mistake by waiting for
so long.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Too, you know, I mean waiting a year. Okay, fine,
it's a long wait, but you know it's what we're
used to now.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Mm hm.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
But two years is it's a long time.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
That is a long time, and to even.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
Get I think the get that feeling back, you'd almost
have to go back and rewatch the whole series again.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, and you know me, I'm always busy reading things,
watching things.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
It's unlikely I'm gonna do that, right.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
If I'm lucky, I'll go back maybe two episodes. If
I'm lucky, I'm definitely not going back to the beginning.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
So I don't know. We'll see. We'll have to see
how things shake out, right, because that's a long way away.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
We're gonna have to find some other stuff to talk about, uh,
before two years is up.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah, I know that we know that right now is
Dead City, but you know it's it's halfway mark, and
then we know that there's another Daryl Dixon coming out.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, I don't know when it's the drop date for
that season, do you know.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
I want to say it's sometime this year, but I
don't remember when.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Okay, let me just do a little quick search. Okay,
let's see what comes up. It just says twenty fifteen.
They don't have an actual date yet.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Oh, twenty twenty five, not twenty fifteen, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
I'm trying to go back ten years in time. That's funny.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
So it came out a while ago, did it?
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, it's old. Apparently it's ancient. Wow, Like what year
is this? Okay, so sometime this year, who knows, it
could be fall, it could be winter.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Right, so you know we've got those coming out and
and then well, I guess we'll just figure it out.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
We'll have to find some things together that we both
are have interest in. Hopefully we'll come up with something.
So it's not a whole year before you guys hear
from us.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Yep, we'll figure something out, guys.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
But yeah, So if you want to hear more stuff
right now, though, while this was the end of you know,
the last of us for a long time, we are
talking about, like Lisa said, we're talking about Dead City
right now. So go ahead and find the page for it.
If you're listening on Spotify, it's got its own feed.
If you're on YouTube, it's in the same same thing.
It's on the podcast, the recap, So find it, find us,
(46:27):
and you can hear more of our discussions right now.
You can even go back in time and listen to
older The Walking Dead shows and seasons and.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Stuff like that. We've got a lot there, yep. So
I don't know anything else for this episode.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
No, I mean it. I think we've discussed pretty much
all the highlights of it, and you know, we're just
gonna have to wait and see.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yeah, we're gonna have to wait it out. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
I mean, personally, if I had to make a guess,
I'm going to say Ellie survives. But then again, the
way they've set this episode, the way the ending is,
and how it seems like they're going to structure next
the next season, you know, I mean, they could go
through the whole thing with Abby and the very last
(47:15):
you know, ten minutes of the final episode is Ellie
getting shot in the face, So we don't.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Know, I know, that could totally happen. We could never
see her again in present tense.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Yeah, oh so, I mean it's hard to say I'm
going to assume Ellie lives, but the way it's structured
at this point, she doesn't have to.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
No, they could kill her.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
They could kill her.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yikes. Well, we'll have to see. Maybe we should take
bets on it before the next beginning of the next season.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Like I said, I'm I'm betting on her living.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Yeah, just because.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Because if she doesn't, it means not the best wins,
but the bad guy wins.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
But you know they do already know how this ends,
right They know they supposedly plotted this whole thing, so
they know what's up right now, we just have to
deal with it whatever they decide to dish up for us.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
So yep, and hope it's not two years like they're saying, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Me too, Okay, so I guess we'll end things there.
Thank you guys for listening to this entire episode. We
appreciate you so much for doing that. Again, don't forget
to you know, follow us and check out the other
episodes so you don't miss what we're doing next. And
we'll see you when we see you. Take care of yourselves.
Bye guys, Bye bye