Talkin with Ben Immanuel on Effort Needed to Succeed in Hollywood

In this episode of "Talent Talk", we sit down with actor, writer, director and mentor Ben Immanuel. Ben talks about his new film "Have Hope, Yo!" (working Title), which is currently in post production. He also shares insights int the effort, and challenges and actor must face to succeed in this industry.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I do think that to a certainextent. It's like saying to somebody,
Okay, you want to be anOlympic athlete, all right, how much
do you want to train? Howmuch sacrifice are you going to make?
How much are you going to changeyour diet, your physical routine, your
sleep schedule? Right? How muchof your life are you going to give

(00:20):
to pursuing this goal? And ifpeople go, well, you know,
I can train, like, I'lltake a workshop a couple of times a
year, I've watched movies. Thenyou go, I don't know. I
don't know if you're going to beable to compete with the people who are
really really serious about it for themost part. Again, some people kind

(00:42):
of dance through those raindrops and squeezethrough the cracks and end up with some
kind of career. But I thinka lot of them live in fear of
being exposed, that somebody's going tofind out they don't really know what they're
doing. So, you know,why not prepare yourself to the best of
your ability and keep building your musclesfor your whole career. I have students

(01:04):
at Haven who have been coming tothe studio for twenty years, and I
can say, you know, I'llsay, studying with me for twenty years,
and there is an element of studyand learning and training. Of course,
we're always all learning. I learnas much from them as they learn
from me, you know, andhow they interpret the material in the plays.
But after a while, you know, training isn't always about learning.

(01:26):
Is that it's about building muscle,and it's just about getting you into the
flow of what you do so youdon't have to think about it, right,
So yeah, can't can't underestimate theimportance of training and building a strong
foundation enough from my personal experience andfrom seeing the many students I've had who
and have who go on to successfulcareers that are all the hardest workers.

(01:49):
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(02:14):
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(02:47):
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(03:10):
out. Finally, just want togive a quick shout out to the sponsors
that we have for this season,which is kind of it's our first season
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so I'm super excited about that.First to let's start off with Thinking Company
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(03:36):
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(03:59):
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So thank you for all those folksare helping up this season. Definitely appreciate
it. Now today's guest. Hehas more than a hundred IMDb credits as

(04:21):
an actor and has also delve intowriting and directing. He has multiple He's
a multiple award winner, including theJohn Giuliani Award for Outstanding Achievement in twenty
thirteen. He's the founder and directorof Haven Acting School in Vancouver, which
has been round since two thousand andtwo. He's taught mentor many actors that
have gone on to do great things. And I may even ask him,

(04:42):
you know, if there's any chancefor me to get involved with that too,
because I need all the help Ican get. So what we'll see
about that Finally, his most recentproject sees his newest feature film, Have
Hope Yo in post production for arelease date later this year. So please
welcome me and joining Emmanuel been Emmanuelto the show. Hello, Hi Ben,

(05:03):
how you doing good? Good tosee you. Thanks for having me
on the show. Likewise, likewisefor sure. And you're in Vancouver right
now, right in the weather startreading right now, not at the moment.
Now we've got a little nice,nice little patch the sunny sky.
So everybody's out doing the limbo.Nice nice So that's as it should be.

(05:23):
Yeah, So if you don't mind, wouldn't mind just kind of getting
into a little bit of your yourhistory, how you kind of got started
in this industry to begin with.Is this something you've always kind of wanted
to do since you're a kid,or when did this all begin for you?
Well? I think that for mostof us who are in this profession
in one form or another, ascertainly as performers, it does start early.

(05:47):
It kind of I think it startsin the home for most of us.
You know, we kind of playa role in the home where we're
entertaining people or trying to get attention, you know, everybody's sort of motivated
by some kind of family dynamic.I think sometimes it's just as simple as
putting on a show for people andseeing that everybody's having fun, and it

(06:08):
can be really kind of, youknow, upbeat like that. And for
some people it's more complex, andit's sort of you might be in a
home environment where things are a littleaskew, and you find that if you
can put people's attention on you,everybody gets a little bit happier, or
everybody just gets a little bit youknow, brings people together. So I

(06:29):
think it starts in the home.You know, as an actor myself for
a long time and having been anacting teacher since nineteen ninety five, most
people's stories seem to start with afamily dynamic. And then after that,
you know, that's a whole otherstory, right about how we get started
as performers. I started, Iguess the first thing I ever did as

(06:50):
a performer, where like little playsin school stuff like that. I had
some good teachers. I had agreat teacher name missus Hooper in the early
years grades one and two and three, and she used to put on shows
and she took it very seriously,and she was very diligent about the show

(07:12):
she put on. So I doremember playing baby Bear in the first in
grade one in a production of youknow, the Three Bears. And I
remember playing an Elf in a Christmasplay. And my line is a line
that I'm still sometimes haunted by.How do I make this line work?

(07:34):
I had to say, I havethe grandest prize of all, a great
big pie. Let's all have apiece right now. And that's a tough
line, you know, for asix year old kid to say grandest.
Yeah, absolutely didn't feel realistic,but you know, sometimes you got to
suck it up as an actor andjust commit to saying the line. So,

(07:56):
as I recall, that's what Idid. Yeah, And I'm sure
it went off with a hitch,so you know, you know, actually,
Gary, the show was a disaster. It all fell apart, and
Missus Hooper, bless her, hadus had the kids stay in the gym
where we put on the show,and she sent the parents to the other

(08:16):
space to have coffee and talk,and she made the kids do the whole
show again. She stood and Iremember her intensity. She stood very focused
and watched us in made sure wegot it right. So she was a
great early influence. Yeah, I'vemet some really great young teachers, and
I think I might have seen afew who shouldn't have been there yet.

(08:39):
I know, when I started teaching, i'd have been acting for about five
years professionally. A woman named AvannahChubbuck who was a brilliant teacher based out
of Los Angeles, who I studiedwith a lot, and she got me
started. She asked me to teachclass for her, and I was pretty
nervous because I thought, why isanybody gonna want to listen to me?
They want Avana, but she wantedsomebody teaching in Vancouver well when she wasn't

(09:03):
here because she's based in LA Andthat was the beginning of teaching for me.
And you know, I remember justkind of having a knack for communicating
with people and for being you know, connecting with people in a creative environment,
but also you know, being veryaware that the best thing, the

(09:24):
most important thing a teacher can do, aside from how good instincts about what
each individual person needs, is youhave to know the material, and especially
if you're teaching plays, and ifyou don't know the play, you don't
understand you know, the time andthe place and everything about the play.

(09:46):
You're kind of full of crop becauseyou're just kind of swinging in the dark.
Right, So if a young teacherknows the play and is able to
communicate with people effectively, probably prettygood. Okay, it's this is a
really good tie in actually too,Haven Acting School, because how long have

(10:07):
you actually been doing that? Istarted my studio, Haven Acting Studio in
two thousand and two, just toprove two thousand and two, two thousand
and three, so we recently celebratedtwo decades twentieth anniversary. Okay, And
do you focus mainly on theater ordo you focus on film as well or

(10:28):
both? We do? I focuson plays. You know, it's been
said that great plays make great actors. So you can teach people basic skills
doing material that's not as layered andstrong and nuanced. But if people really
want to learn to do this,they have to do great material, you
know, because the writers give theactors so much to do. Having said

(10:52):
that, people need to learn howto work on the stuff that they're probably
going to be pursuing for the mostpart in making their living at hopefully,
which is film and TV. SoI teach scene study classes which are plays,
and Nelson Wong teaches on camera auditioning, and Nelson uses scenes from contemporary

(11:16):
film and television, mostly television.And Jill Morrison teaches at the studio and
she does plays. You know,if if a movie or a TV show
has a brilliant scene, which youknow, there's so much great TV now.
You know, so many of thesegreat playwrights are now writing for television.

(11:37):
You know, if you can findgreat scenes, good. But what
we really hope is that people understandthe material and they're not just kind of
trying to make up you know,the given circumstances on the spot, you
should know what you're talking about.When I talk to some actors, right,
some actors like I've never done theater, I don't want to do theater.
I don't like theater, right,And then of course you get those
others for their like, oh,I started in theater. I love theater.

(12:00):
This is where I learned everything,and I've been able to transfer that
to film. Yeah, I'm justkind of curious what your opinion of that
is. Well, I think thatif you can do theater, it's easier
to transition into film and TV becausehopefully you've built a solid foundation with your
instrument right. For example, theteacher Patsy Rodenberg, she will talk about

(12:24):
once you're on your breath, onyour voice, in your body, then
you can rehearse. And until then, you know, Patsy won't even do
text, She won't even start rehearsinguntil an actor is functioning right, until
you can be heard, until youcan yes, project, but not project
in a thousand seat theater, project, just even in a room, even

(12:46):
for me to have this conversation withyou and to reach the computer clearly,
you know. So having a goodfoundation, it ain't going to hurt.
You know, it's certainly not goingto hurt, and it's probably going to
benefit people. Somebody may be ableto be very charming and very kind of
real and very very effective in certainthings as an actor without a lot of

(13:11):
training. You know, they mayjust have a knack for it, and
they may get put in a partthat really fixed them, and you know,
you never know what people can do. I don't think there's any kind
of definite rules, because people alwaysbreak rules and you know, kind of
emerge as an unexpected new find asan actor. But I think he can
be pretty sure that if you're ayoung actor, will just say young actors

(13:33):
for now, because they're you know, usually the one starting out, although
more mature people also start later inlife. But you better be careful what
you wish for because if you wantto be on TV, for example,
TV or film and then you geta nice, big part with a lot
of dialogue and a lot of paceto it and maybe a lot of energy

(13:54):
and size to it. You maybe able to do that in the audition
and when you're doing the self tapeand you have as many takes as you
want, and you can you doit at your own pace and put together
a good tape. But when youget on set with an experienced, powerful
actor, you better be able todo it. You know, like you're

(14:15):
going to find out really fast.It's like the boxer Mike Tyson said,
everybody has a plan until you getpunched in the face. So all right,
So an actor thinks they know whatthey're doing and then they get on
set and suddenly everything's different and they'reworking, you know, with an animal
of an actor who's coming at themwith pace they didn't expect, or the
camera's moving right, and so theyhave to get it in one clean take

(14:39):
and they can't stop, and there'sa lot of different things that can come
up. Theater will teach you howto handle that stuff. Theater will teach
you how to have a strong foundationwhere you can kind of, you know,
stay on your game with all theobstacles going on. It will it
will make you strong, and it'llmake you just capable of doing your job

(15:03):
under challenging circumstances. So I thinkfor me, it's a great foundation to
have. But everybody's got their owntrip, right, everybody's got their own
way of doing things. I dothink that if people say I don't want
to do theater, I'm always curioushave they ever seen good theater? Right?
You know, because when you seeamazing theater, the power of it,

(15:26):
the power of the performances, andthe power of the relationship between the
audience and the play. I don'tI'm not sure I understand why anybody wouldn't
want to have that experience. Butyou know, going out and doing the
same thing over and over and overagain for a month or more. Some

(15:48):
people don't want to do that,but I believe that's where you get strong.
Repetition is what builds you up.I do think that to a certain
extent. It's like saying to somebody, Okay, you want to be an
Olympic athlete, all right, howmuch do you want to train? How
much sacrifice are you going to make? How much are you going to change
your diet, your physical routine,your sleep schedule? Right? How much

(16:12):
of your life are you going togive to pursuing this goal? And if
people go, well, you know, I can train, like I'll take
a workshop a couple of times ayear, I watched movies. Then you
go, I don't know. Idon't know if you're going to be able
to compete with the people who arereally really serious about it for the most

(16:34):
part. Again, some people kindof dance through those rain drops and squeeze
through the cracks and end up withsome kind of career. But I think
a lot of them live in fearof being exposed, that somebody's going to
find out they don't really know whatthey're doing. So, you know,
why not prepare yourself to the bestof your ability and keep building your muscles

(16:56):
for your whole career. I havestudents at Haven who have been coming to
the studio for twenty years, andI can say, you know, I'll
say studying with me for twenty years, and there is an element of study
and learning and training. Of course, we're always all learning. I learn
as much from them as they learnfrom me, you know, and how
they interpret the material in the place. But after a while, you know,

(17:19):
training isn't always about learning. Isthat it's about building muscle, and
it's just about getting you into theflow of what you do so you don't
have to think about it. Right, So yeah, I can't can't underestimate
the importance of training and building astrong foundation enough from my personal experience and
from seeing the many students I've hadwho and have who go on to successful

(17:42):
careers that are all the hardest workers. Listen, you can tell Listen,
I'm quantificating as an acting teacher becauseI find this stuff more interesting than talking
about myself, right. I findthe craft and people's experiences and people's journey
and the struggles and the things thatI see year in year out. I

(18:03):
find it really really interesting, andI'm really passionate about it. And I
could go on and on, butenough, already, what else shall we
talk about? Yes, I wasjust going to say, like a you
know, as interested as I amas well in this whole line of questioning.
It's good content, I think,so thank you for all that.
Let's talk about your your news projectnow. The title itself is interesting,

(18:29):
Have Hope You? And I washoping you can kind of give me a
bit of a backstory on that.Well. I came up with that title
because about ten years ago or more, Jen and I and my wife Jen,
we were walking on Main Street herein Vancouver and I saw spray painted
on a big billboard. Somebody hadspray painted have Hope Yo exclamation mark,

(18:52):
and it just made us smile andit made us feel good, and I
took a picture of Jen standing besideit. It's very unusual to seek fed
that affects you that way, right. Usually it's just something you can't even
read, or somebody's tag you know, that has no meaning to anyone other
than the person who tagged it.Sometimes, you know, it can be

(19:15):
negative statements, sometimes something funny.This one stood out, and so in
making this film, which takes placeduring pandemic times, about a group of
people in the pandemic and then comingthrough it and how that affects them emotionally,
Have Hope You seemed like well,what else can you say these days?
Right? What else can young peoplesay? Like, you've just got

(19:37):
to have hope because everyone's telling you, you know, the planet's burning and
the economy is going down the tubes, and who knows when the next pandemic
is, and people are so dividedin terms of their ideology and the way
they live and think, and youknow, countries at war all over the
world, as there always are,but now we have an increased awareness of

(20:00):
it because of social media. Sothere's a lot for young people to contend
with for all of us. Sowhat can you say? Have hope?
You know? Yeow? Having saidthat, it's come to my attention that
some people think it's really stupid titleand have to listen to people. We
haven't released the film yet, we'rejust starting to edit it now. Originally

(20:22):
the film the project was called triggerMe, and I just you know,
I was looking for phrases from thetimes we live in and people talk about
getting triggered. Young people use thatword a lot, about getting triggered and
triggers, and I thought, well, we need to get triggered. It's
how we deal with it. Youknow, if we go through life without

(20:45):
getting triggered. Then we're in somesort of cocoon and we're not in reality.
We're gonna get triggered by life,but how do we choose to deal
with it? So that seemed important. And then coming back to finish the
film, we started it in twentytwenty and we finished it in twenty twenty
three, so the characters take abit of a journey through COVID. I
wanted a new title. I wanteda fresh start at it. We hadn't

(21:07):
released it, so it was okay, so have hope. Yo seemed good,
and then some of the young castmembers started telling me, you know,
nobody says yo anymore and it's kindof corny, And I thought,
really, I hear people say yoall the time. But I got to
listen to these people because they theirvoices are integral to this story one hundred

(21:30):
percent. Could never have made thisfilm without listening to the stories of my
young cast members and having them sharethose stories with me. So I got
to listen to them. And thensomebody said, you know, it's kind
of cultural appropriation saying yo for thesecharacters these occasions. I went on,
no, now it's that. NowI'm really I got to be aware of

(21:53):
that. So I thought, well, even if I agree, don't agree,
don't understand. And I got tolisten, and I got to take
these things into consideration, not froma place of fear, just from a
place of existing in today's world andunderstanding it as much as I can,
right, because that's a big partof what the film's about. So I'm

(22:15):
trying to do that. The moreI think about it, the more I
think do I even like that title? And I like sharing the story Gary,
you know, I like saying whereI got the title because it was
really cool. And I like that, you know, something similar to what
I experienced seeing that name, thatthat phrase written on all happens in the
film. So I like that partof it. But the truth is,

(22:37):
if somebody says to me, what'syour new film called, and I say,
have hope, you know, Idon't know if I feel that great
about it. I feel kind oflike, I don't know. So I'm
ambivalent about the title. We havesome other possibilities. I'm listening to people.
We've got to figure it out reallysoon because before you know what,
we're going to be releasing the film. But what's funny about asking me the

(23:00):
title and me talking this much isbecause that's this subject in itself is a
huge part of what the film isabout, trying to figure out how to
live and how to have a voicein today's society where everyone's so afraid to
speak their truth because they're going tobe judged, or they're emphatic about speaking
their truth, but they're not reallylistening to other people. So my struggle

(23:23):
with the title of this film maybestruggles an overstatement, my challenges or my
journey with titling this film is actually, to a large degree, what the
film is about. Right. Itsounds very, very interesting, and I'm
kind of curious, like you're inpost production now, do you kind of
have a timeline when it might beready for releaser? Well, we'd love

(23:45):
to get it released for a certainfestival before the end of twenty twenty three.
That might be pushing it. We'lldo our best, and if we
can't get it done by December twentytwenty three, we have to look at
the upcoming festival season for twenty twentyfour. Releasing independent films in many ways

(24:07):
can be driven by film festivals,so you kind of gear your release towards
festivals. If you can get intoa decent festival and get some good reviews,
maybe when awards get people talking,then you have a much better of
releasing your film on a good streamer. Sometimes even theatrically know, very very
competitive landscape out there, so you'vegot to find a way to stand out.

(24:32):
If you're making films with great actorswho aren't yet internationally recognize stars,
something's going to make that movie pop. You have, you know, very
well known actors in your film,you can often sell it just on that
merit, but you know, there'sso many brilliant actors out there who just

(24:52):
have the international audiences, so youhave to find other ways of getting attention
for your film. Yep, that'sthat's absolutely fair and speaking to us.
So one of the folks you dohave on your show is Gabrielle Miller,
probably best known for her corner Gasrole. Not the first time you guys
worked together, You guys have actuallyworked together a few times. Yeah,

(25:17):
I've I kind of lost count,but Gabe and I have acted together playing
sister and brother in a really coolfilm called Sisters and Brothers by director Carl
Basai. I guess that was aboutten years ago. And we've game was
one of the leads in my filmfrom twenty thirteen called down River, and

(25:41):
we've worked together. I've directed heron a TV show called Robs and Arms.
We've acted I can't remember, buta number of times, and Gabe's
one of those actors for me.You know, people know her as Lacy
on Corner Gas for I went on. You know, they got a lot
of big audiences from that, butthat's just one very small part of what

(26:03):
Gabe can do as an actor.To play that light, you know,
fun comedy, She's got an absolutegift for that. But she's also a
great dramatic actor who just really intuitivelyunderstands this is the struggle of being human
and the humor that comes with that. So Gabe, I always compare her
to Mary Tyler Moore, and Ithink younger people might not know Mary Tyler

(26:30):
Moore, but she's a brilliant actor. Was she's passed away now who really
opened the doors for women to belikable and lovable and attractive and all those
things, but also to have somethingreally impactful to say about being a woman
in society. You know, whenshe was on a sitcom called The Dick

(26:52):
Van Dyke Show back in the sixties. She was the first TV woman who
didn't just go yes, no,dear, you know, here's your dinner,
dear. Her character had strong opinionsabout things, but it didn't make
her unlikable. It just made youlike her even more right because she had
a life of her own. Gabeknows how to bring that to her roles.

(27:14):
Her characters always have strong opinions thatkind of go against the grain,
and you see the humor and thesort of truth in that. So I
love working with Gabe. I hopewe get to continue to do it more
in the future, for sure.The only thing I'll continue to ask about
the film itself. You talked aboutthe festivals and things like that. Do
you have a game plan after that, Like do you have networkshire hoping to

(27:37):
get it on like the Netflix oranything like that, or absolutely you know
any independent film these days, thePromised Land is a good streamer. That's
where most people are going to seeit. The two previous features I've made,
Moving Malcolm and Down River both playedin theaters across Canada to film festivals

(28:00):
all over the world. So thesedays you want your film to get on
Netflix or Amazon, whomever, youknow, whoever is going to get the
most eyes on it. So ourplan is to make the best film we
can, you know, finish itproperly, get it out to the festivals
and let audiences and critics and youknow, film committees make the decision for

(28:26):
themselves about what they think of it, and then to take that momentum and
go out to the marketplace and justkind of keep building on the work we
did right as many people who cansee it better. A good sale means
you can get your money back andmake it a lot easier to make another
film, you know. So yeah, it's like a film feels more successful

(28:52):
the more people who see it.It definitely is a great feeling for a
filmmaker. You don't want, youknow, your relative and your friends to
be the only people who see yourfilm and want to get it out there
to the whole world. So streamersare great for that. Yeah, No,
absolutely. On that note, Ithink we'll kind of wrap it up
because you've been more than generous withyour time, so I do appreciate that.

(29:15):
I want to thank you again forcoming on board and saying eye to
us and chatting best of luck withthe film. Hope is it does.
All this has all the success you'relooking for. Thanks, thanks Gary,
and I am. I would justsay thank you to my sponsor to Dain
Espresso because I've had about four espressoso I'm pretty jacked up. I've got

(29:36):
a lot of energy right now,so I'll probably talk your ear off,
but you know coffee is good forthat, right that it is. So
thanks everybody for watching. We'll seeyou next time and have a good rest
of your weekend. If you canstick around for a minute, they'll be
great. Okay, Yeah,