July 1, 2023 • 37 mins
In this episode of "Talent Talk", we sit down with Intimacy Coordinator, actor and stunt actor, Shawna McGill Legault. Shawna delves into the fascinating world of intimacy coordination. We explore the role of an intimacy coordinator, their importance in the film and television industry, and how they ensure the safety and comfort of actors during intimate scenes. Shawna demystifies this often misunderstood profession, and we learn how it contributes to creating authentic, respectful, and consensual portrayals of intimacy on screen.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
But can you advocate for yourself?Absolutely? Yeah, I mean what even
if even if so much as they'relike, Okay, this is going to
come up. We have changed thescript and there's going to be this this
Newton scene. You're good with it? Right? As a performer, we
can say, um, sure,but I would like to request an intimacy
coordinator. Once a performer requests anintimacy coordinator, they will bring in an
(00:22):
intimacy coordinator. Okay, So thatis a way to at least get some
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(00:46):
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(01:23):
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(01:48):
we have them this year, soexcited. So we'll start off with
six Degrees Sound in music, who'sbooth we are currently in, so thank
you to those guys for doing theaudio on this and Reagan we'll give a
person shout out to him because he'sbeen kind of our guy this entire season,
so thank you. We also haveWorkflow Film Camera Operation currently right now
by Jared Eves, so thank youto him as well. We have Company
(02:13):
of Rogues which is a Calgary localacting studio, so thanks to them for
hopping on board. We have Heardof One Media, We have a Counting
Co Counting Coup Indigenous Film Academy,we have r J Talent, and finally
we have Actor Albera. So agreat line of sponsors this year, so
thank you so much. You guysare making the season a memorable one,
(02:37):
I hope, so thank you.Now, today's guest. She's actually been
on the show before, back wayback in season one, and she's an
actress, stunt actor, and morerecently, she's a nationally accredited Yeah,
intimacy coordinator. Yes, she's anationally accredited intimacy coordinator. So please join
(03:00):
me and welcome SHAWNA McGill lego.And that name is a mouthful by sweet
it is. I'm pretty excited thoughabout it. It's um, yeah,
I got married this past year orso, Yes, and what a grand
do it was. Um, Ishowed up at the end of it,
(03:21):
and it was something that I gottatell you, it was. It was
a whole community that came together.And I think that that it was actually
like it looked like a film setbecause it was mostly our film community that
came together and put it together ona five week notice. Yeah, I'm
pretty sure it was an entire setfor sure. Yeah. I think we
even asked Edmonton crew come down.You know, we did have Evanton crew
(03:42):
come down. Yeah. Yeah,there's Edington's stunties and yeah, absolutely,
so congrats on that, thank you, and yeah, we'll just a little
shout out to Stefan as well.And they actually do some start work together.
So cool. You guys practice witheach other yea all the time?
All right, yeah, a lotof you guys been doing this stunt work
now, well you I mean Igot into it pretty late, so I
(04:08):
mean I didn't start it until.Yeah, I'm just gonna say later,
I'm not gonna say my age,but it's been it's been fifteen years.
Okay, all right, m um, So you know you're you're twenty five
then yeah, yeah I started yeah, yeah, perfect, Yeah, thank
you for that. And what madeyou want to do that? Because again,
it's not you know, it's physicallywhat made me, you know,
(04:32):
being I think that's like starting outas an actress and we will get into
the intima seed. I do havea train of thought here. Um,
sorry, I hit the mic umstarting out as an actress and then finding
that world, like I wish Ihad known about it before, but I
just I was. I really cameto it by luck. Um. I
knew a stunt coordinator who was afight coordinator in a production. It was
(04:56):
actually a theatrical production. I wasworking and did an audition and was cast
as like a female warrior and he'slike, okay, I'm just going to
surround you, but with all thesestunt guys because you don't know what you're
doing and with the stunt world,and and I just had just had such
a wonderful time that it was like, Okay, I want to learn more.
So I'm gonna take box, I'mgonna take sword, I'm gonna and
you go down that rabbit hole.And just I get a lot, ask
(05:17):
a lot how to get into stunts, And it's, um, it's not
a question that that's an easy answer, especially in Alberta, because I mean,
I know that in Vancouver there's there'sworktops that happen all the time.
But being in stunts is about relationshipsand it's about trust with your with your
other stunties, but really with yourcoordinators. It's your coordinators. They're going
to hire you, so they haveto know that you have the skills that
(05:40):
they need you, that you havethe kind of common sense of like you're
not going to run up to someoneand be embarrassing, like you know what
I mean. So it is aboutbuilding all of those those relationships as well
as building the skills of fight skillsor sword or whatever it is that that
you want to you want to specializein or you want to learn like the
broad broader everything, so muy tiessome like whatever that is. But it
(06:03):
is at the end of the day, it's about building relationships and meeting the
coordinators and that can be difficult inAlberta because the most usually the easiest way
to meet a coordinator is to goto attend one of their workshops. But
our coordinators tend to be working alot, so so it is. But
there, I mean there there isa great new stunt community. H My
(06:24):
buddy Rod Coulter has a gym onFifth and they're doing lots of stunt training.
So if anyone wants to get involved, I would say that's the place
in Calgary to go. Yes,And I've been actually looking a lot of
his stuff on Instagram. It's verycool stuff he's doing, so yeah,
just definitely check those check him outto ken that would be an in firstance.
(06:46):
I keep with seeing his videos onInstagram, like, I really need
to contact this guys just to learnsome stuff. He's a definitely interesting cat.
I think he's just a wonderful humanbeing. He's just so giving of
like because I think I you knowthis, like anytime we learn something in
the film industry. It's because someoneis giving of their time. Yes,
like, and it's a lot ofgiving, and it's a lot of and
and I think we've all done inthere in our community. We've all done
(07:10):
that the give and I had aheistist set a giver. So it's amazing
nice. Have you ever done anyhorse stunts? I have. I don't
do a lot of horse stunts,um, because I'm not the best writer
in the world. I'm a reallygood follower though, really good faller.
So you want to, like youwant to give you a run for your
money, Like you want to gosomewhere specific and do some fancy stuff.
(07:31):
I'm like, no, but Ican want me to fall off backwards.
I could do that. Yeah.But what I really want to talk to
you though, was intimacy and stunt. Coming from the stunt world into the
intimacy world. They are so similar. Okay, they really are. If
you can have a really well choreographedfight scene, you can have a really
(07:53):
well choreographed sex scene stimulated sex,not actual sex. Let's be clear.
It's it's funny because just before youcame in, our camera guy Jared was
just mentioning that how hey, ifyou can coordinate stunts, you can coordinate
intimacy. Absolutely, so yeah,it's absolutely true. Um do you want
(08:13):
like if you want it to belike we want continuity? Like I remember
where I was an interview that cameout last year or two years ago from
Sean Bean from I think that's itsname, don't quote meum from Game of
Thrones, and he was saying,how, oh, you know intimacy coordinators
they take away the spontaneity of it. I was like, Wow, I
would never want to be in afight scene with you because I don't want
(08:35):
to spontaneous fight scene. I'm gonnaget punched in the face. Like that's
not the point. The point isto tell the story and make it look
as realistic as possible as well.Do kind grace for your for your camera
department to something. We've got continuitythat we can you know, and it's
it's it's called acting. It's notcalled the exploitation, So it is.
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I just think that it's it's areally well choreographed scene with boundaries and consent
and all of that, Like there'sjust no excuse for and it's still happening
to this day. Then I've beenon set when it happened. Unfortunately,
I've like surprise nudity and you're like, um um what yeah, which yeah,
(09:18):
and especially in today's world, I'mreally surprised that they're still getting well
stuff. Absolutely, it's it's it'sshocking and how do you handle this something
like that? I as, youknow what every situation I think is different.
Um, but because you do,like it's intimacy, coordinating, has
(09:41):
it's there, it's it's I meanyou think that it's kind of simple,
but it's not. There's like there'sa process to it. There's stuff that
we do in pre production. There'sstuff that will do before the day.
There's a different things that will doon the day and then and that will
depend on on what is being doneon the day, Like so how many
characters involved their background in there,Like there's there's a lot of preparation that
(10:03):
goes into making sure that there areno surprises on the day because that's what
we want ultimately, we don't wantanyone to be like, oh, I
didn't I didn't know that you neededto see my my nipples, because that's
quite That's a big thing for alot of a lot of actors, is
they don't want to show their nipples, so you know, working around that
and so getting getting a clearer visionof the story and the clear vision from
(10:26):
from your creative team of what theywant to tell and how we're going to
tell that, and making sure that'swithin the boundaries of our talent, making
sure that our crew are aware ofwhat is going on, because when they're
surprised nudity, it isn't fair toour crew either. They are caught off
guard and don't know where to lookand don't know how to do their job.
Like. So it's it's so it'sit's not just protecting our talent,
(10:48):
it's protecting our production as well.If somebody coming back in five years and
saying, you know, I wasn'tsafe on that set, that director was
terrible, like, we don't wantthat. We like, we have a
really good reputation in Alberta. Wehave crews that work really, really hard
and they're good crews and I wouldnever want anyone to come back and say,
oh, they didn't keep me safe. Right, So so inthremacy coordinators
(11:09):
do can help with all of that. So it's not just making sure there's
mints, which is something on somedays I really am just a well paid
mint holder, right right. Well, so for example, you know,
not necessarily for yourself, but isthere nothing in say the contracts where you
(11:31):
can write in, hey, I'mnot doing any news absolutely, and can
they still kind of say, oh, by the way, we still need
you to do some nudity or isthere something that you can um once you
have it in writing? And Ithink that's the point, like, especially
when it comes to like nudity writersor simulated sex writers. Once you have
that, this is because it's thatneeds to be given to our they can
see the talent and the talents representativesat least forty eight hours ahead of time.
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It gets agreed upon, it getssigned, and that's part of like
when there is a rider on set, that's part of my job make sure
that it's signed, to make surethat it's clear. I'll go through it
with the talent. But um,but yeah, I know when that once
that is there, that is it, and they're like, oh, we
actually really wanted to see your button, Like actually that is that is not
(12:18):
here specifically and sometimes it will specificallysay like no, no back nudity whatever
that is, right, So ifthere is something specifically and that they that
they are saying that they will notbe done. It will not be done.
And that is the end of that. I mean, that's the start
at the least. And intimate intimacycoordinating isn't just about nudity, right,
(12:39):
It's no, No, it's it'sabout boundaries and and consent. And UM
recently had it was it was andI want to say, like it's just
a makeout scene, but that's stillvulnerable. So and there's been scenes that
have had no intimacy whatsoever that I'vebeen called in for UM the because they
(13:00):
were highly it was a domestic violenceand it was really brutal domestic violence.
UM. So I was requested tobe on set as just as a support
UM because we build relationships with ourwith our with our talent, and and
I I know that you know inthis situation, Okay, like there's there's
(13:20):
it isn't Yeah, it isn't justabout intimacy sometimes sometimes it's about just being
being an extra person to support,right, And what's what's that process?
Kind of look like you're almost likea psychologist in a way where you're we're
not so say no we're not,because yes, we have mental health first
aid, like to qualify and there'scertain qualifications you have to have to become
(13:41):
an intimacy coordinator, Like you don'tjust go I want to I want to
see naked people. Let's go withit, Like no one does that.
We actually have to like you haveto get first like yeah, so,
um, mental health first aid isone of those qualifications. And then there's
like learning about modesty, wear andby standard intervention and so you do get
a lot of skills that sometimes canmake you feel like a therapist, but
(14:03):
you are not. You are nota qualified therapist. And that was one
thing on that specifically on that setthat I talked about with domestic violence is
they wanted a someone there in casesome of the crew might have been triggered.
It was just a wonderful set andit was a wonderful production that really
thought outside of the box and theyand we talked about this, and the
lead actress on it as well,she was like, I want a safe
(14:24):
space for anyone that's been through thisbecause look at our like the amount of
crew that was there. Unfortunately,statistically it's it's it's going to have happened
to someone out there. It's goalLike so they were just wonderful. But
then they did say that, youknow, we want a therapist. I'm
like, I'm not a therapist.I will absolutely be there to support,
(14:46):
but I'm not a therapist. Andwe found a really good therapist and she
stayed for the day and she hadhad a trailer and she walked the set
and was checking and talked about differenttriggers that can happen for people, even
if it's just you know, you'rewatching this scene and you kind of you
start feeling sick, we start likeshortness of breath, like all of like
that's that was her training to saythat this is this is what can happen
and come talk to me if itdoes. Or every single union has and
(15:09):
we had them all printed out.There are hotlines that we can call all
of like DGC, ACTRA, theTeamsters, IATSI, they all have different
hotlines to support their their union membersin any kind of mental health crisis,
which is awesome and amazing that ourunions have that. And it's this is
(15:30):
all still quite new developing. Whereis it kind of within Alberta at least,
where do you see it at rightnow? Like you are you seeing
a growth in it? Are youseeing changes yet. Yeah, I would
say though that Alberta is a littlebehind. I believe I could be wrong,
(15:56):
but we're getting there. Every productionthat that looks into into an intimacy
coordinator. Um, there's more andmore of them, which is great.
Um, there is still definitely thementality here that like we've got some like
Hallmark kind of films that get doneand some of them, like I've worked
on some of them because it's itis They're like, well, it's just
(16:18):
a kiss or it's not that kindof film. I hear that too,
and I'm like, ugh, um, like yeah, it's it's not a
supportive anyway. I'm just gonna digress. Um, So there are some that
use it, but yeah, youstill have a lot of pushback of like
you're the fun killer and like actuallyI'm What I like to think that we
do is we we give the confidenceto our performers so that they so that
(16:44):
we've thought of all of the things, We've thought of all of the things
that that that go through the mindof a performer when they're in a close
proximity to someone, so that theycan give the best performance possible. So
that we can actually and even ifthey have a boundary that like whatever that
is, like even if it's nudityor just physical contact, wise, we
(17:07):
can still tell that story without havingto do that exact thing, like we
can stay, we can we canhonor their boundaries and tell the story that
the creative team wants to beautifully rightoutrailroading boundaries. But you can't railroad boundaries
until you know what they are,right. UM So I kind of got
a couple of questions there. Maybefirst off, when it comes to what's
(17:33):
the actual process. Does the productioncompany say, yeah, we want an
intimacy coordinator on set or is itsomething that is mandatory or is it right
now it's not mandatory. There's Imean, it's it's a it's in the
best practice, but it's not.We're not actually in the IPA yet for
actra Um we are big and thesag agreement again it's I think it's best
(17:56):
practice. There are things that arein there that have to be done,
like the forty eight our nudity writersin stimulated sex writers, that's a that's
a half to um. Those arein the agreements, but intimacy coordinators themselves
not quite in the agreements. We'rehoping for twenty twenty four is IPA to
be in there, Okay, Imean that's what we're aiming for. Yeah,
I mean it's in the grand schemeof things. It's still relatively quick,
(18:18):
it is, and it's and Imean you look at like the progression
of stunts to where it is today, like we didn't you didn't become a
completely like you didn't have harnesses andhelmets and pads, and I mean you
look at the beginning of film andthe stone work. They know that they
were really jemping on that train andit was going fast and they lost probably
a couple of leggs during like alot more accidents happened, and so that
(18:41):
was like that was a progression toget to where it is today, to
have coordinators, to have qualified coordinators, to have qualified equipment like it on.
So I think intimacy is the sameand you're not going to you're not
gonna get change overnight, and noteveryone's gonna be happy about it, and
not everyone's going to understand it.And and so I think the more that
(19:02):
we can can talk about talk aboutit and and come at the work in
a in a way that allows peopleto say no, to have boundaries.
I mean, that's one of thereasons why I do it. Like my
little girl is in the industry byKiera was as well my older one and
(19:22):
then mine now my youngest. Idon't want them to have that moment when
there's the kiss and there the directorsays, Okay, you know what you
guys, just you go for itor just figure it out. Like,
I want them to feel supported.I want I want any young lady that's
or young the young person that iscoming up through ranks into the into the
acting world, I want them tobe to be supported and to be able
(19:45):
to give confident performances that they don'tfeel like their skin is going to come
off and they're going to cry themyou know, all the way home.
I've done that, and I don'twant that for anybody else. And I've
heard the horror stories and we don'twant that anymore. No, for sure.
Again, it's something that's long overdeand it just takes time, and
it's just going to take time andconversations like this exactly, so hopefully we
(20:07):
can get the word out and youknow, make it more popular to do
this. Yeah, I don't.I mean, there's so there's so much
to learn, and I think that'sone of the things, like I love
I love learning, So it's it'snot just like my got my like my
Level one and my Level two isthrough Intimacy Directors and Coordinators which is American
(20:29):
based, and then my Level threenow my Level four is with Intimacy Coordinators
Canada. But there's still so muchmore. There's still like there's still um
courses that I take from like LizzieTalbot who does Bridgeton, she's an intimacy
coordinator there. She does some withthe ISS which is Intimacy Stage and Screen,
but they're in they're in the UK, so there. If that's the
(20:51):
lovely thing too, like COVID waslovely, I'm not saying that. I'm
just saying it brought up home,like the online world a lot more of
like getting access to training that's online. There's tens of stuff, So there's
LGBTQ, there's like trans awareness,there's all of the stuff that we keep
learning about because then it's like,okay, well when you get a nudity
rider and they're trans what does thatlook like? And you're like no,
no, so like let's talk aboutit. Let's figure that out. And
(21:15):
it's it's really an interesting and somuch learning like group of people. That's
that I love learning from. Yeah. Yeah. If if there is a
situation, for example, where thereis no rider or comments, you know,
to any sort of intimacy situation,and the director, producer or whatever
does come up and say, hey, we want you to just show your
(21:37):
bought here? Can you fight that? Like you can? You say no,
I don't feel comfortable doing that absolutely, And what would be the path
to to kind of combat out ofbit like as a performer as a performer,
Yeah, that's and it's so toughbecause you don't want to get blacklisted
because you don't want to be deemedlike a difficult person to work with.
When the power in the room comesto you and says, oh I need
(22:00):
this. This is that power isthe person that's going to hire you for
your next job. They're going totalk about you. I mean, I'm
hoping that that that they that thepower in the room stop doing thatt um
because they are going to get ayes, Oh it's okay. I checked
in with them. They said yes, right through the power in the room.
You Oh go good, you checkedin with them. That's great,
(22:22):
it's but can you advocate for yourself? Absolutely? I mean you know what
even if even if so much isthey're like, Okay, this is going
to come up. We've changed thescript and there's going to be this this
newtant scene. You're good with it, right? As a performer, we
can say, um, sure,but I would like to request an intimacy
coordinator. Once a performer requests anintimacy coordinator, they will bring in an
(22:45):
intimacy coordinator. Okay, So thatis a way to at least get some
support. And then, like onething that I've said before is like I
don't mind being the bad guy.Ever, Um so if if it's if
it's a hard no, then it'sa hard no, right, we don't
(23:07):
negotiate that. And and honestly that'sthe why it should be, right.
There needs to be that comfort levelfor both sides, absolutely, and if
it isn't, then you need tofigure out the middle ground there are And
then I think there are things cominginto into our agreements that like, if
there's going to be nudity, ithas to be be mentioned in the audition.
It has to be mentioned. Um, they could advent and it has
(23:30):
to go into the contract and sothat all those changes are being are being
made so that the person can sayno, I'm not showing my butt and
they're not going to lose their jobbecause it wasn't put in the audition.
It wasn't put in the contract likethey can. People are being allowed to
say no, which is amazing becauseas actors, we're always taught to say
(23:51):
yes. You get the offer,you say yes, and you offer something
back, whatever that is. Butnow we get to say no too,
right, And I have seen avery rarely, but I have seen a
couple like audition ratups where they're likewarrying there maybe be potential for munity for
this role kind of deal, whichis good. Yeah, gives you that
heads up like okay, I'm likecomfortable with that absolutely back out kind of
(24:15):
deal. But um so seeing that. But it is a slow build.
I think it is m when itcomes to actually being on set though,
because of course he related stunts toright. So when it comes to the
choreography of it, what's kind ofthe process there, Like let's just say
it's a simple kissing scene. Isthere a certain coronation Do you sit down
(24:37):
with both actors and the director.It something like a simple scene like that
of like they come in the roomand they have a little kiss, they
have a little dialogue, they kissagain, and then they sit down and
have like a moment and then cutum to just describe the scene that we
did recently. That is simple.That is not something I'd be like,
oh, can you know maybe ifwe got to rehearsal, it'd be year.
(25:00):
I wouldn't request a rehearsal for that, um I would. I would
simply talk, like talk about boundaries, make sure that you have the same
conversations. And they're I mean,we're our talent, they're professionals. But
it's still always going to say thatyou don't have to kiss during rehearsal.
There is no tongue unless tongue isrequested and really shown, like but that
would be a rider thing like likeyou So it's so just going over the
(25:22):
basics. They're like oh yeah,yeah, yeah, I know, great.
You know, boundaries are good.Your boundaries are good. And often
I'll ask to be coming from astent, we're all asking like any injuries,
like are you're going to stand onyour left foot too long and you've
got a knee injury. I'll talkinjuries as well. Um, but yeah,
I know it's uh, the directorhas a vision, the director will,
well you talk through with me,talk it through with them so that
(25:42):
everyone knows. Okay, so thisis so we're going to come here,
this is like, this is whois initiating the kiss. Great, talk
it through them. I'll do it. Could closed a rehearsal with just the
director, myself and the talent quiteoften, and maybe the DP walk through
it again, okay, and thenthen we'll open it up and then but
(26:03):
okay, it's a process for sure, right. And I remember I was
doing some background on Klondike and thenthere was a scene someone referred to Klondike
as Vietnam the other day. Oh, really interesting. I don't know why,
but it was like, yeah,I just anyway, continue. Well,
I just can say because there wasa scene there where there was a
lady who gets up from the tubnaked, right, champagne and all that
(26:26):
kind of stuff, And I waspart of the background. I was in
that room, and just that scenarioI think would be a good example,
because I mean it was somewhat ofa close set, right, It was
just okay, what background actors dowe want in there? What camera crew
do we need in there? AndI'd said than the two actors. So
it was fairly closed off. Butat the same time, I have no
idea if there was any discussion withher on her comfort level or anything like
(26:49):
that. Right to have these peopleall staring at Earn no kind of deal,
you know. And now, actuallyit's I love working with backgroun.
Our background is so eager to dothe right thing. And so why I've
got like a sheet that I'll bringwith me on intimacy days that I've got
background that are working. And it'slike these are the dues and the don'ts
and like don't bring your cell phoneand I and they're just like we we
(27:12):
turn away when they disrobe, andthen when we then they're ready, then
we'll turn back around and and they'rejust so respectful and like, oh yeah,
absolutely, I can do that.And so I yeah, I love,
I love working with the background.But I mean it's always nice if
what there's intimacy to not have abunch of back right, Yeah, But
sometimes that's the scene and that's thevision and that's the story. So that's
(27:33):
what that's what it is. Andthat's what we really have to work with.
So let's make it as let's giveeveryone the tools to do this as
confidently as possible, and that meansturning around or not taking making sure there's
no pictures, shutting off our monitors, making sure that our crew as as
minimal crew as possible. Yeah.So, and those would be like conversations
ahead of time. Absolutely absolutely,um And I do if I remember correctly,
(27:57):
well, my memories not great Nowaday, but I think she actually did
have a nibble covers M And Idon't know if that's part of the process
as well or if that's something youassure it's it's funny. I thought my
intimacy kid here just the case youwanted to see anything. But I do
have those in there, but ourward like that. And I think the
pioneers really of intimacy was our wardrobeteam anyone in costumes. They were the
(28:18):
ones that had the robes that wouldthat would hear those the heartbreaking stories that
that were that were quite often theadvocates for our performers. It was our
wardrobe before. So it's I think, uh, for myself, I like
to work closely with wardrobe because they'vethey've got the robes, they've they've known
the modesty war. They know whatwhat bits go in what places and and
(28:41):
they've got options. And so althoughI will carry them with me on like
on larger sets, that the modestywear that I have is usually not needed
because their wardrobe team that they've hadit, they've had it for the longest
time. Okay, And so yeah, I mean as an intimacy coordinator,
I definitely give props to our costumesdepartment that have been carrying a lot of
that job for a very long time. Okay, Well, you definitely pique
(29:04):
my interest with the whole kit thingas to what you can I keep you
with have? So what is inyour bag of tricks? In my bag
of tricks? It's funny, Um, I could bring it out, but
i was like, I'm looking atthe top thing and I'm like, Okay,
I have lots of things in there, like there's because some of the
things that we do when it comesto me to do, some of them
are like stickers. So sometimes likehair removal is a thing. So you've
(29:26):
got razors, you've got oil,you've got lotion, you've got just deodorant,
you've got mints, you've got nipplecovers, you've got covers for all
different exterior genitalia into your genitalia.There's there's, there's and then there's barriers
too that you that you put between. So like a floating barrier would usually
be like a sponge. Sometimes there'sa ball. A ball can help in
(29:48):
the moment, but it helps toalso keep that distance because you you can't
have genitalia touch other genitalia. Youjust it's just not a thing, right,
It just doesn't It's should never everhappen. So you have like a
so you have your own like barrierthat is attached to your body, but
you could also have a floating onewhich you put in between. That's a
lot of the stuff that's in mykid. And then I'm trying to think
(30:11):
of like some of the weirder stuff. Well, this is one. I
have a this is my top one. So it's just a sports cup.
Okay, um, but I willuse a sports cup. If someone will
talk about we talk about like it'snot very often that it happens. It's
that someone with exterior genitalia will havelike a natural vascular reaction, that's what
(30:34):
I call it. Um. Butif there is if they have a fear
of that, if that is somethingthat is really on their mind of like
what happens if this does not behavethe way I want it too, I'm
like, okay, so we canuse it. We can use a hard
cup and then no one will know. So it's just something again, it's
just like little things to give ourperformance confidence to do there to do their
(30:55):
work, so they they don't haveto think, Okay, if I if
I have this happened to my body, right, like, okay, that
is if that is something that isan issue, let's let's make it not
an issue that's private to you.Let's let's do that. Um. But
else having my bag of tricks,oh so much tape, so much tape,
Yeah, for different things to tapeon if you need to. And
(31:18):
yeah, there's lots of well,and I gotta say, like I've definitely
seen a lot of you know,stimulated sex scenes and there's a lot of
times where I'm like, how arethey not actually doing something? And so
obviously because I had no idea whatsome of the tools might have been to
help prevent anything. So that's that'svery good. You've got like little this
(31:41):
one I picked up. It's actuallyfor your foot, but if your wardrobe
is very small, it's just somethingthat can be put in between that.
Again, it's just it just helpsto have like a barrier in between.
And it's for like sensitivity, butit's also for health as well. They
just to make sure that nothing's touching. Okay, all right, So yeah,
(32:06):
lots of lots of things. Andso when it comes to like,
obviously you've kind of built that upand you've um, I'm assuming like does
the courses you take does it kindof tell you some of these things?
Oh? Absolutely? Okay, Yeah, I was working the first time I
took a KIT, I was workingwith Janine Waddell um Or that she was
giving a class through she has UMclasses offered through Theatrical Theatrical Intimacy Laboratory is
(32:31):
still and and so yeah, soshe gave a se a the KIT class
and I was like, oh,like just things you don't think of the
like why do you need a babyoil? Oh? Because I carry a
lot of tape and it leaves marks, and baby oil gets rid of that
tape mark. Like I knew thatfrom stunts. Why would I would I
not have that in my mind?But yeah, there's And then also when
(32:52):
I was taking classes through Intimacy CoordinatorsCanada, same thing. They go through
a kit class and they teach youlike, this is what you're going to
need to have because you don't knowwhen you're gonna need an extra toothbrush like
that someone's going to request a toothbrush, or you don't know when someone's going
to request them too it or intoyou don't know when someone's going to request
There's lots of comfort items too.I also carry UM. I carry essential
(33:13):
oils with me as well, becausesometimes that someone wants someone may want to
have that smell like in their tentfor example, or again, it's just
those those conversations of a woman mightbe menstruating and she is feeling like she's
doing a birthing scene and someone's gonnabe really close, and she's like,
(33:36):
what about what about smell? Somewomen have smells, someone who don't have
smells. Some mean we're just worriedthat they have smell, right, And
so it's like, okay, let'stake a pantyline or let's stick that on
the outside of your underwear underneath likeyour wardrobe not touching your skin. Put
some essential oil on that to justtoo, so that you feel confident that
if they're going to be close enoughto smell something, it's going to be
(33:57):
lavender. Like there's just the thingsthat like little solve problem solving things that
I never thought of before, rightbecause you that's what that is, a
thing like if someone who has internalgenitalia, are they going to be menstruating
on the days of this that youguys have scheduled this nudity? Okay,
so if this is like, let'stalk about cycle. If that's going to
interfere. If that's going to interfere, let's talk to production and there like
(34:20):
it has to be this day.I'm like, okay, if it's going
to be this day, this isthe this is the roadblock we're going to
have. And it's easy for meto have those conversations with production, I
think when the performer being like Ithink I might have a period that day,
right, Like it's just and anda lot of performers don't even think
of that until later on. IMean, there's just like there's there's little
conversations to be had that that peoplejust didn't have before. Exactly. Yeah,
(34:46):
yeah, for sure. Yeah,Um, we are kind of getting
near the end of the dark timehere. No. I can talk about
it all day long, absolutely.Um. The one last question I'll kind
of ask when it comes to theschooling for it. So what you've taken
is accredited. However, there areother things out there right Like I'm just
kind of wondering if there's just oneschool of learning or no, there's if
(35:09):
you go to I like, especiallyif you go to this like SAG website,
there are SAG accredited schools like teachingfacilities, there's uh and so those
are the ones that you will beable to then give you like this SAG
accredited title. Um. And becauseit is becoming more of an accredited thing
now, I think it Originally earlyon it it was not because there wasn't
(35:32):
anyone else to teach this stuff.There was just the pioneers. There was
just like Lindsay Summers. There wasjust Alicia Rotus like there was there didn't
there wasn't a lot of intimacy coordinatorsout there. There was just an inn
like there was. But now thatthose people are teaching more, then now
we've got more schools that are therest of us can learn from and not
(35:52):
have to to sludge through the mudquite as hard as they did. Perfect
well. On that note, Ithink we will hold it into the show.
I am going to do so.First off, thank you for being
on the show and talking about theintimacy. I think it's a great topic.
It's something we've needed for many years. So thank you for that,
and best of luck with moving itforward. And thanks for the folks watching.
(36:15):
I hope you enjoyed the show.We'll see you next week. Everything
else, so thank you again.And we do want to do a quick
little plug for Joe Pickett. Sowe have a special guest. If you
don't mind coming in, maybe youcan introduce and I think you can introduce
yourself. You have to tell Garyyour name or the camera. And I
(36:37):
filmed on Joe Pickett. Who doyou play? I was Lucy Pickett,
so I was one of the daughters. And yeah, and where can people
watch it? Paramount Plus And ifthey don't have Paramount Plus, what can
they do? Download? They candownload it, but it's also a code
(36:59):
that's just piket and then you getone month free of Paramount Plus. So
then you can watch you can watchBilly the Kid, you can watch Joe
picket watch Stone like yellow Stone.Yeah, there's a lot of things on
there. Yeah, so you getone month free if you use the code
picket ye perfect. Awesome, thankyou so much, thank you. So
(37:22):
make sure you check that out.She's adorable. Adorable,
But can you advocate for yourself?Absolutely? Yeah, I mean what even
if even if so much as they'relike, Okay, this is going to
come up. We have changed thescript and there's going to be this this
Newton scene. You're good with it? Right? As a performer, we
can say, um, sure,but I would like to request an intimacy
coordinator. Once a performer requests anintimacy coordinator, they will bring in an
(00:22):
intimacy coordinator. Okay, So thatis a way to at least get some
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garam Claine. You're watching Talent Talk. Thanks for tuning in as always and
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(01:48):
we have them this year, soexcited. So we'll start off with
six Degrees Sound in music, who'sbooth we are currently in, so thank
you to those guys for doing theaudio on this and Reagan we'll give a
person shout out to him because he'sbeen kind of our guy this entire season,
so thank you. We also haveWorkflow Film Camera Operation currently right now
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(02:13):
of Rogues which is a Calgary localacting studio, so thanks to them for
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thank you so much. You guysare making the season a memorable one,
(02:37):
I hope, so thank you.Now, today's guest. She's actually been
on the show before, back wayback in season one, and she's an
actress, stunt actor, and morerecently, she's a nationally accredited Yeah,
intimacy coordinator. Yes, she's anationally accredited intimacy coordinator. So please join
(03:00):
me and welcome SHAWNA McGill lego.And that name is a mouthful by sweet
it is. I'm pretty excited thoughabout it. It's um, yeah,
I got married this past year orso, Yes, and what a grand
do it was. Um, Ishowed up at the end of it,
(03:21):
and it was something that I gottatell you, it was. It was
a whole community that came together.And I think that that it was actually
like it looked like a film setbecause it was mostly our film community that
came together and put it together ona five week notice. Yeah, I'm
pretty sure it was an entire setfor sure. Yeah. I think we
even asked Edmonton crew come down.You know, we did have Evanton crew
(03:42):
come down. Yeah. Yeah,there's Edington's stunties and yeah, absolutely,
so congrats on that, thank you, and yeah, we'll just a little
shout out to Stefan as well.And they actually do some start work together.
So cool. You guys practice witheach other yea all the time?
All right, yeah, a lotof you guys been doing this stunt work
now, well you I mean Igot into it pretty late, so I
(04:08):
mean I didn't start it until.Yeah, I'm just gonna say later,
I'm not gonna say my age,but it's been it's been fifteen years.
Okay, all right, m um, So you know you're you're twenty five
then yeah, yeah I started yeah, yeah, perfect, Yeah, thank
you for that. And what madeyou want to do that? Because again,
it's not you know, it's physicallywhat made me, you know,
(04:32):
being I think that's like starting outas an actress and we will get into
the intima seed. I do havea train of thought here. Um,
sorry, I hit the mic umstarting out as an actress and then finding
that world, like I wish Ihad known about it before, but I
just I was. I really cameto it by luck. Um. I
knew a stunt coordinator who was afight coordinator in a production. It was
(04:56):
actually a theatrical production. I wasworking and did an audition and was cast
as like a female warrior and he'slike, okay, I'm just going to
surround you, but with all thesestunt guys because you don't know what you're
doing and with the stunt world,and and I just had just had such
a wonderful time that it was like, Okay, I want to learn more.
So I'm gonna take box, I'mgonna take sword, I'm gonna and
you go down that rabbit hole.And just I get a lot, ask
(05:17):
a lot how to get into stunts, And it's, um, it's not
a question that that's an easy answer, especially in Alberta, because I mean,
I know that in Vancouver there's there'sworktops that happen all the time.
But being in stunts is about relationshipsand it's about trust with your with your
other stunties, but really with yourcoordinators. It's your coordinators. They're going
to hire you, so they haveto know that you have the skills that
(05:40):
they need you, that you havethe kind of common sense of like you're
not going to run up to someoneand be embarrassing, like you know what
I mean. So it is aboutbuilding all of those those relationships as well
as building the skills of fight skillsor sword or whatever it is that that
you want to you want to specializein or you want to learn like the
broad broader everything, so muy tiessome like whatever that is. But it
(06:03):
is at the end of the day, it's about building relationships and meeting the
coordinators and that can be difficult inAlberta because the most usually the easiest way
to meet a coordinator is to goto attend one of their workshops. But
our coordinators tend to be working alot, so so it is. But
there, I mean there there isa great new stunt community. H My
(06:24):
buddy Rod Coulter has a gym onFifth and they're doing lots of stunt training.
So if anyone wants to get involved, I would say that's the place
in Calgary to go. Yes,And I've been actually looking a lot of
his stuff on Instagram. It's verycool stuff he's doing, so yeah,
just definitely check those check him outto ken that would be an in firstance.
(06:46):
I keep with seeing his videos onInstagram, like, I really need
to contact this guys just to learnsome stuff. He's a definitely interesting cat.
I think he's just a wonderful humanbeing. He's just so giving of
like because I think I you knowthis, like anytime we learn something in
the film industry. It's because someoneis giving of their time. Yes,
like, and it's a lot ofgiving, and it's a lot of and
and I think we've all done inthere in our community. We've all done
(07:10):
that the give and I had aheistist set a giver. So it's amazing
nice. Have you ever done anyhorse stunts? I have. I don't
do a lot of horse stunts,um, because I'm not the best writer
in the world. I'm a reallygood follower though, really good faller.
So you want to, like youwant to give you a run for your
money, Like you want to gosomewhere specific and do some fancy stuff.
(07:31):
I'm like, no, but Ican want me to fall off backwards.
I could do that. Yeah.But what I really want to talk to
you though, was intimacy and stunt. Coming from the stunt world into the
intimacy world. They are so similar. Okay, they really are. If
you can have a really well choreographedfight scene, you can have a really
(07:53):
well choreographed sex scene stimulated sex,not actual sex. Let's be clear.
It's it's funny because just before youcame in, our camera guy Jared was
just mentioning that how hey, ifyou can coordinate stunts, you can coordinate
intimacy. Absolutely, so yeah,it's absolutely true. Um do you want
(08:13):
like if you want it to belike we want continuity? Like I remember
where I was an interview that cameout last year or two years ago from
Sean Bean from I think that's itsname, don't quote meum from Game of
Thrones, and he was saying,how, oh, you know intimacy coordinators
they take away the spontaneity of it. I was like, Wow, I
would never want to be in afight scene with you because I don't want
(08:35):
to spontaneous fight scene. I'm gonnaget punched in the face. Like that's
not the point. The point isto tell the story and make it look
as realistic as possible as well.Do kind grace for your for your camera
department to something. We've got continuitythat we can you know, and it's
it's it's called acting. It's notcalled the exploitation, So it is.
(08:56):
I just think that it's it's areally well choreographed scene with boundaries and consent
and all of that, Like there'sjust no excuse for and it's still happening
to this day. Then I've beenon set when it happened. Unfortunately,
I've like surprise nudity and you're like, um um what yeah, which yeah,
(09:18):
and especially in today's world, I'mreally surprised that they're still getting well
stuff. Absolutely, it's it's it'sshocking and how do you handle this something
like that? I as, youknow what every situation I think is different.
Um, but because you do,like it's intimacy, coordinating, has
(09:41):
it's there, it's it's I meanyou think that it's kind of simple,
but it's not. There's like there'sa process to it. There's stuff that
we do in pre production. There'sstuff that will do before the day.
There's a different things that will doon the day and then and that will
depend on on what is being doneon the day, Like so how many
characters involved their background in there,Like there's there's a lot of preparation that
(10:03):
goes into making sure that there areno surprises on the day because that's what
we want ultimately, we don't wantanyone to be like, oh, I
didn't I didn't know that you neededto see my my nipples, because that's
quite That's a big thing for alot of a lot of actors, is
they don't want to show their nipples, so you know, working around that
and so getting getting a clearer visionof the story and the clear vision from
(10:26):
from your creative team of what theywant to tell and how we're going to
tell that, and making sure that'swithin the boundaries of our talent, making
sure that our crew are aware ofwhat is going on, because when they're
surprised nudity, it isn't fair toour crew either. They are caught off
guard and don't know where to lookand don't know how to do their job.
Like. So it's it's so it'sit's not just protecting our talent,
(10:48):
it's protecting our production as well.If somebody coming back in five years and
saying, you know, I wasn'tsafe on that set, that director was
terrible, like, we don't wantthat. We like, we have a
really good reputation in Alberta. Wehave crews that work really, really hard
and they're good crews and I wouldnever want anyone to come back and say,
oh, they didn't keep me safe. Right, So so inthremacy coordinators
(11:09):
do can help with all of that. So it's not just making sure there's
mints, which is something on somedays I really am just a well paid
mint holder, right right. Well, so for example, you know,
not necessarily for yourself, but isthere nothing in say the contracts where you
(11:31):
can write in, hey, I'mnot doing any news absolutely, and can
they still kind of say, oh, by the way, we still need
you to do some nudity or isthere something that you can um once you
have it in writing? And Ithink that's the point, like, especially
when it comes to like nudity writersor simulated sex writers. Once you have
that, this is because it's thatneeds to be given to our they can
see the talent and the talents representativesat least forty eight hours ahead of time.
(11:56):
It gets agreed upon, it getssigned, and that's part of like
when there is a rider on set, that's part of my job make sure
that it's signed, to make surethat it's clear. I'll go through it
with the talent. But um,but yeah, I know when that once
that is there, that is it, and they're like, oh, we
actually really wanted to see your button, Like actually that is that is not
(12:18):
here specifically and sometimes it will specificallysay like no, no back nudity whatever
that is, right, So ifthere is something specifically and that they that
they are saying that they will notbe done. It will not be done.
And that is the end of that. I mean, that's the start
at the least. And intimate intimacycoordinating isn't just about nudity, right,
(12:39):
It's no, No, it's it'sabout boundaries and and consent. And UM
recently had it was it was andI want to say, like it's just
a makeout scene, but that's stillvulnerable. So and there's been scenes that
have had no intimacy whatsoever that I'vebeen called in for UM the because they
(13:00):
were highly it was a domestic violenceand it was really brutal domestic violence.
UM. So I was requested tobe on set as just as a support
UM because we build relationships with ourwith our with our talent, and and
I I know that you know inthis situation, Okay, like there's there's
(13:20):
it isn't Yeah, it isn't justabout intimacy sometimes sometimes it's about just being
being an extra person to support,right, And what's what's that process?
Kind of look like you're almost likea psychologist in a way where you're we're
not so say no we're not,because yes, we have mental health first
aid, like to qualify and there'scertain qualifications you have to have to become
(13:41):
an intimacy coordinator, Like you don'tjust go I want to I want to
see naked people. Let's go withit, Like no one does that.
We actually have to like you haveto get first like yeah, so,
um, mental health first aid isone of those qualifications. And then there's
like learning about modesty, wear andby standard intervention and so you do get
a lot of skills that sometimes canmake you feel like a therapist, but
(14:03):
you are not. You are nota qualified therapist. And that was one
thing on that specifically on that setthat I talked about with domestic violence is
they wanted a someone there in casesome of the crew might have been triggered.
It was just a wonderful set andit was a wonderful production that really
thought outside of the box and theyand we talked about this, and the
lead actress on it as well,she was like, I want a safe
(14:24):
space for anyone that's been through thisbecause look at our like the amount of
crew that was there. Unfortunately,statistically it's it's it's going to have happened
to someone out there. It's goalLike so they were just wonderful. But
then they did say that, youknow, we want a therapist. I'm
like, I'm not a therapist.I will absolutely be there to support,
(14:46):
but I'm not a therapist. Andwe found a really good therapist and she
stayed for the day and she hadhad a trailer and she walked the set
and was checking and talked about differenttriggers that can happen for people, even
if it's just you know, you'rewatching this scene and you kind of you
start feeling sick, we start likeshortness of breath, like all of like
that's that was her training to saythat this is this is what can happen
and come talk to me if itdoes. Or every single union has and
(15:09):
we had them all printed out.There are hotlines that we can call all
of like DGC, ACTRA, theTeamsters, IATSI, they all have different
hotlines to support their their union membersin any kind of mental health crisis,
which is awesome and amazing that ourunions have that. And it's this is
(15:30):
all still quite new developing. Whereis it kind of within Alberta at least,
where do you see it at rightnow? Like you are you seeing
a growth in it? Are youseeing changes yet. Yeah, I would
say though that Alberta is a littlebehind. I believe I could be wrong,
(15:56):
but we're getting there. Every productionthat that looks into into an intimacy
coordinator. Um, there's more andmore of them, which is great.
Um, there is still definitely thementality here that like we've got some like
Hallmark kind of films that get doneand some of them, like I've worked
on some of them because it's itis They're like, well, it's just
(16:18):
a kiss or it's not that kindof film. I hear that too,
and I'm like, ugh, um, like yeah, it's it's not a
supportive anyway. I'm just gonna digress. Um, So there are some that
use it, but yeah, youstill have a lot of pushback of like
you're the fun killer and like actuallyI'm What I like to think that we
do is we we give the confidenceto our performers so that they so that
(16:44):
we've thought of all of the things, We've thought of all of the things
that that that go through the mindof a performer when they're in a close
proximity to someone, so that theycan give the best performance possible. So
that we can actually and even ifthey have a boundary that like whatever that
is, like even if it's nudityor just physical contact, wise, we
(17:07):
can still tell that story without havingto do that exact thing, like we
can stay, we can we canhonor their boundaries and tell the story that
the creative team wants to beautifully rightoutrailroading boundaries. But you can't railroad boundaries
until you know what they are,right. UM So I kind of got
a couple of questions there. Maybefirst off, when it comes to what's
(17:33):
the actual process. Does the productioncompany say, yeah, we want an
intimacy coordinator on set or is itsomething that is mandatory or is it right
now it's not mandatory. There's Imean, it's it's a it's in the
best practice, but it's not.We're not actually in the IPA yet for
actra Um we are big and thesag agreement again it's I think it's best
(17:56):
practice. There are things that arein there that have to be done,
like the forty eight our nudity writersin stimulated sex writers, that's a that's
a half to um. Those arein the agreements, but intimacy coordinators themselves
not quite in the agreements. We'rehoping for twenty twenty four is IPA to
be in there, Okay, Imean that's what we're aiming for. Yeah,
I mean it's in the grand schemeof things. It's still relatively quick,
(18:18):
it is, and it's and Imean you look at like the progression
of stunts to where it is today, like we didn't you didn't become a
completely like you didn't have harnesses andhelmets and pads, and I mean you
look at the beginning of film andthe stone work. They know that they
were really jemping on that train andit was going fast and they lost probably
a couple of leggs during like alot more accidents happened, and so that
(18:41):
was like that was a progression toget to where it is today, to
have coordinators, to have qualified coordinators, to have qualified equipment like it on.
So I think intimacy is the sameand you're not going to you're not
gonna get change overnight, and noteveryone's gonna be happy about it, and
not everyone's going to understand it.And and so I think the more that
(19:02):
we can can talk about talk aboutit and and come at the work in
a in a way that allows peopleto say no, to have boundaries.
I mean, that's one of thereasons why I do it. Like my
little girl is in the industry byKiera was as well my older one and
(19:22):
then mine now my youngest. Idon't want them to have that moment when
there's the kiss and there the directorsays, Okay, you know what you
guys, just you go for itor just figure it out. Like,
I want them to feel supported.I want I want any young lady that's
or young the young person that iscoming up through ranks into the into the
acting world, I want them tobe to be supported and to be able
(19:45):
to give confident performances that they don'tfeel like their skin is going to come
off and they're going to cry themyou know, all the way home.
I've done that, and I don'twant that for anybody else. And I've
heard the horror stories and we don'twant that anymore. No, for sure.
Again, it's something that's long overdeand it just takes time, and
it's just going to take time andconversations like this exactly, so hopefully we
(20:07):
can get the word out and youknow, make it more popular to do
this. Yeah, I don't.I mean, there's so there's so much
to learn, and I think that'sone of the things, like I love
I love learning, So it's it'snot just like my got my like my
Level one and my Level two isthrough Intimacy Directors and Coordinators which is American
(20:29):
based, and then my Level threenow my Level four is with Intimacy Coordinators
Canada. But there's still so muchmore. There's still like there's still um
courses that I take from like LizzieTalbot who does Bridgeton, she's an intimacy
coordinator there. She does some withthe ISS which is Intimacy Stage and Screen,
but they're in they're in the UK, so there. If that's the
(20:51):
lovely thing too, like COVID waslovely, I'm not saying that. I'm
just saying it brought up home,like the online world a lot more of
like getting access to training that's online. There's tens of stuff, So there's
LGBTQ, there's like trans awareness,there's all of the stuff that we keep
learning about because then it's like,okay, well when you get a nudity
rider and they're trans what does thatlook like? And you're like no,
no, so like let's talk aboutit. Let's figure that out. And
(21:15):
it's it's really an interesting and somuch learning like group of people. That's
that I love learning from. Yeah. Yeah. If if there is a
situation, for example, where thereis no rider or comments, you know,
to any sort of intimacy situation,and the director, producer or whatever
does come up and say, hey, we want you to just show your
(21:37):
bought here? Can you fight that? Like you can? You say no,
I don't feel comfortable doing that absolutely, And what would be the path
to to kind of combat out ofbit like as a performer as a performer,
Yeah, that's and it's so toughbecause you don't want to get blacklisted
because you don't want to be deemedlike a difficult person to work with.
When the power in the room comesto you and says, oh I need
(22:00):
this. This is that power isthe person that's going to hire you for
your next job. They're going totalk about you. I mean, I'm
hoping that that that they that thepower in the room stop doing thatt um
because they are going to get ayes, Oh it's okay. I checked
in with them. They said yes, right through the power in the room.
You Oh go good, you checkedin with them. That's great,
(22:22):
it's but can you advocate for yourself? Absolutely? I mean you know what
even if even if so much isthey're like, Okay, this is going
to come up. We've changed thescript and there's going to be this this
newtant scene. You're good with it, right? As a performer, we
can say, um, sure,but I would like to request an intimacy
coordinator. Once a performer requests anintimacy coordinator, they will bring in an
(22:45):
intimacy coordinator. Okay, So thatis a way to at least get some
support. And then, like onething that I've said before is like I
don't mind being the bad guy.Ever, Um so if if it's if
it's a hard no, then it'sa hard no, right, we don't
(23:07):
negotiate that. And and honestly that'sthe why it should be, right.
There needs to be that comfort levelfor both sides, absolutely, and if
it isn't, then you need tofigure out the middle ground there are And
then I think there are things cominginto into our agreements that like, if
there's going to be nudity, ithas to be be mentioned in the audition.
It has to be mentioned. Um, they could advent and it has
(23:30):
to go into the contract and sothat all those changes are being are being
made so that the person can sayno, I'm not showing my butt and
they're not going to lose their jobbecause it wasn't put in the audition.
It wasn't put in the contract likethey can. People are being allowed to
say no, which is amazing becauseas actors, we're always taught to say
(23:51):
yes. You get the offer,you say yes, and you offer something
back, whatever that is. Butnow we get to say no too,
right, And I have seen avery rarely, but I have seen a
couple like audition ratups where they're likewarrying there maybe be potential for munity for
this role kind of deal, whichis good. Yeah, gives you that
heads up like okay, I'm likecomfortable with that absolutely back out kind of
(24:15):
deal. But um so seeing that. But it is a slow build.
I think it is m when itcomes to actually being on set though,
because of course he related stunts toright. So when it comes to the
choreography of it, what's kind ofthe process there, Like let's just say
it's a simple kissing scene. Isthere a certain coronation Do you sit down
(24:37):
with both actors and the director.It something like a simple scene like that
of like they come in the roomand they have a little kiss, they
have a little dialogue, they kissagain, and then they sit down and
have like a moment and then cutum to just describe the scene that we
did recently. That is simple.That is not something I'd be like,
oh, can you know maybe ifwe got to rehearsal, it'd be year.
(25:00):
I wouldn't request a rehearsal for that, um I would. I would
simply talk, like talk about boundaries, make sure that you have the same
conversations. And they're I mean,we're our talent, they're professionals. But
it's still always going to say thatyou don't have to kiss during rehearsal.
There is no tongue unless tongue isrequested and really shown, like but that
would be a rider thing like likeyou So it's so just going over the
(25:22):
basics. They're like oh yeah,yeah, yeah, I know, great.
You know, boundaries are good.Your boundaries are good. And often
I'll ask to be coming from astent, we're all asking like any injuries,
like are you're going to stand onyour left foot too long and you've
got a knee injury. I'll talkinjuries as well. Um, but yeah,
I know it's uh, the directorhas a vision, the director will,
well you talk through with me,talk it through with them so that
(25:42):
everyone knows. Okay, so thisis so we're going to come here,
this is like, this is whois initiating the kiss. Great, talk
it through them. I'll do it. Could closed a rehearsal with just the
director, myself and the talent quiteoften, and maybe the DP walk through
it again, okay, and thenthen we'll open it up and then but
(26:03):
okay, it's a process for sure, right. And I remember I was
doing some background on Klondike and thenthere was a scene someone referred to Klondike
as Vietnam the other day. Oh, really interesting. I don't know why,
but it was like, yeah,I just anyway, continue. Well,
I just can say because there wasa scene there where there was a
lady who gets up from the tubnaked, right, champagne and all that
(26:26):
kind of stuff, And I waspart of the background. I was in
that room, and just that scenarioI think would be a good example,
because I mean it was somewhat ofa close set, right, It was
just okay, what background actors dowe want in there? What camera crew
do we need in there? AndI'd said than the two actors. So
it was fairly closed off. Butat the same time, I have no
idea if there was any discussion withher on her comfort level or anything like
(26:49):
that. Right to have these peopleall staring at Earn no kind of deal,
you know. And now, actuallyit's I love working with backgroun.
Our background is so eager to dothe right thing. And so why I've
got like a sheet that I'll bringwith me on intimacy days that I've got
background that are working. And it'slike these are the dues and the don'ts
and like don't bring your cell phoneand I and they're just like we we
(27:12):
turn away when they disrobe, andthen when we then they're ready, then
we'll turn back around and and they'rejust so respectful and like, oh yeah,
absolutely, I can do that.And so I yeah, I love,
I love working with the background.But I mean it's always nice if
what there's intimacy to not have abunch of back right, Yeah, But
sometimes that's the scene and that's thevision and that's the story. So that's
(27:33):
what that's what it is. Andthat's what we really have to work with.
So let's make it as let's giveeveryone the tools to do this as
confidently as possible, and that meansturning around or not taking making sure there's
no pictures, shutting off our monitors, making sure that our crew as as
minimal crew as possible. Yeah.So, and those would be like conversations
ahead of time. Absolutely absolutely,um And I do if I remember correctly,
(27:57):
well, my memories not great Nowaday, but I think she actually did
have a nibble covers M And Idon't know if that's part of the process
as well or if that's something youassure it's it's funny. I thought my
intimacy kid here just the case youwanted to see anything. But I do
have those in there, but ourward like that. And I think the
pioneers really of intimacy was our wardrobeteam anyone in costumes. They were the
(28:18):
ones that had the robes that wouldthat would hear those the heartbreaking stories that
that were that were quite often theadvocates for our performers. It was our
wardrobe before. So it's I think, uh, for myself, I like
to work closely with wardrobe because they'vethey've got the robes, they've they've known
the modesty war. They know whatwhat bits go in what places and and
(28:41):
they've got options. And so althoughI will carry them with me on like
on larger sets, that the modestywear that I have is usually not needed
because their wardrobe team that they've hadit, they've had it for the longest
time. Okay, And so yeah, I mean as an intimacy coordinator,
I definitely give props to our costumesdepartment that have been carrying a lot of
that job for a very long time. Okay, Well, you definitely pique
(29:04):
my interest with the whole kit thingas to what you can I keep you
with have? So what is inyour bag of tricks? In my bag
of tricks? It's funny, Um, I could bring it out, but
i was like, I'm looking atthe top thing and I'm like, Okay,
I have lots of things in there, like there's because some of the
things that we do when it comesto me to do, some of them
are like stickers. So sometimes likehair removal is a thing. So you've
(29:26):
got razors, you've got oil,you've got lotion, you've got just deodorant,
you've got mints, you've got nipplecovers, you've got covers for all
different exterior genitalia into your genitalia.There's there's, there's and then there's barriers
too that you that you put between. So like a floating barrier would usually
be like a sponge. Sometimes there'sa ball. A ball can help in
(29:48):
the moment, but it helps toalso keep that distance because you you can't
have genitalia touch other genitalia. Youjust it's just not a thing, right,
It just doesn't It's should never everhappen. So you have like a
so you have your own like barrierthat is attached to your body, but
you could also have a floating onewhich you put in between. That's a
lot of the stuff that's in mykid. And then I'm trying to think
(30:11):
of like some of the weirder stuff. Well, this is one. I
have a this is my top one. So it's just a sports cup.
Okay, um, but I willuse a sports cup. If someone will
talk about we talk about like it'snot very often that it happens. It's
that someone with exterior genitalia will havelike a natural vascular reaction, that's what
(30:34):
I call it. Um. Butif there is if they have a fear
of that, if that is somethingthat is really on their mind of like
what happens if this does not behavethe way I want it too, I'm
like, okay, so we canuse it. We can use a hard
cup and then no one will know. So it's just something again, it's
just like little things to give ourperformance confidence to do there to do their
(30:55):
work, so they they don't haveto think, Okay, if I if
I have this happened to my body, right, like, okay, that
is if that is something that isan issue, let's let's make it not
an issue that's private to you.Let's let's do that. Um. But
else having my bag of tricks,oh so much tape, so much tape,
Yeah, for different things to tapeon if you need to. And
(31:18):
yeah, there's lots of well,and I gotta say, like I've definitely
seen a lot of you know,stimulated sex scenes and there's a lot of
times where I'm like, how arethey not actually doing something? And so
obviously because I had no idea whatsome of the tools might have been to
help prevent anything. So that's that'svery good. You've got like little this
(31:41):
one I picked up. It's actuallyfor your foot, but if your wardrobe
is very small, it's just somethingthat can be put in between that.
Again, it's just it just helpsto have like a barrier in between.
And it's for like sensitivity, butit's also for health as well. They
just to make sure that nothing's touching. Okay, all right, So yeah,
(32:06):
lots of lots of things. Andso when it comes to like,
obviously you've kind of built that upand you've um, I'm assuming like does
the courses you take does it kindof tell you some of these things?
Oh? Absolutely? Okay, Yeah, I was working the first time I
took a KIT, I was workingwith Janine Waddell um Or that she was
giving a class through she has UMclasses offered through Theatrical Theatrical Intimacy Laboratory is
(32:31):
still and and so yeah, soshe gave a se a the KIT class
and I was like, oh,like just things you don't think of the
like why do you need a babyoil? Oh? Because I carry a
lot of tape and it leaves marks, and baby oil gets rid of that
tape mark. Like I knew thatfrom stunts. Why would I would I
not have that in my mind?But yeah, there's And then also when
(32:52):
I was taking classes through Intimacy CoordinatorsCanada, same thing. They go through
a kit class and they teach youlike, this is what you're going to
need to have because you don't knowwhen you're gonna need an extra toothbrush like
that someone's going to request a toothbrush, or you don't know when someone's going
to request them too it or intoyou don't know when someone's going to request
There's lots of comfort items too.I also carry UM. I carry essential
(33:13):
oils with me as well, becausesometimes that someone wants someone may want to
have that smell like in their tentfor example, or again, it's just
those those conversations of a woman mightbe menstruating and she is feeling like she's
doing a birthing scene and someone's gonnabe really close, and she's like,
(33:36):
what about what about smell? Somewomen have smells, someone who don't have
smells. Some mean we're just worriedthat they have smell, right, And
so it's like, okay, let'stake a pantyline or let's stick that on
the outside of your underwear underneath likeyour wardrobe not touching your skin. Put
some essential oil on that to justtoo, so that you feel confident that
if they're going to be close enoughto smell something, it's going to be
(33:57):
lavender. Like there's just the thingsthat like little solve problem solving things that
I never thought of before, rightbecause you that's what that is, a
thing like if someone who has internalgenitalia, are they going to be menstruating
on the days of this that youguys have scheduled this nudity? Okay,
so if this is like, let'stalk about cycle. If that's going to
interfere. If that's going to interfere, let's talk to production and there like
(34:20):
it has to be this day.I'm like, okay, if it's going
to be this day, this isthe this is the roadblock we're going to
have. And it's easy for meto have those conversations with production, I
think when the performer being like Ithink I might have a period that day,
right, Like it's just and anda lot of performers don't even think
of that until later on. IMean, there's just like there's there's little
conversations to be had that that peoplejust didn't have before. Exactly. Yeah,
(34:46):
yeah, for sure. Yeah,Um, we are kind of getting
near the end of the dark timehere. No. I can talk about
it all day long, absolutely.Um. The one last question I'll kind
of ask when it comes to theschooling for it. So what you've taken
is accredited. However, there areother things out there right Like I'm just
kind of wondering if there's just oneschool of learning or no, there's if
(35:09):
you go to I like, especiallyif you go to this like SAG website,
there are SAG accredited schools like teachingfacilities, there's uh and so those
are the ones that you will beable to then give you like this SAG
accredited title. Um. And becauseit is becoming more of an accredited thing
now, I think it Originally earlyon it it was not because there wasn't
(35:32):
anyone else to teach this stuff.There was just the pioneers. There was
just like Lindsay Summers. There wasjust Alicia Rotus like there was there didn't
there wasn't a lot of intimacy coordinatorsout there. There was just an inn
like there was. But now thatthose people are teaching more, then now
we've got more schools that are therest of us can learn from and not
(35:52):
have to to sludge through the mudquite as hard as they did. Perfect
well. On that note, Ithink we will hold it into the show.
I am going to do so.First off, thank you for being
on the show and talking about theintimacy. I think it's a great topic.
It's something we've needed for many years. So thank you for that,
and best of luck with moving itforward. And thanks for the folks watching.
(36:15):
I hope you enjoyed the show.We'll see you next week. Everything
else, so thank you again.And we do want to do a quick
little plug for Joe Pickett. Sowe have a special guest. If you
don't mind coming in, maybe youcan introduce and I think you can introduce
yourself. You have to tell Garyyour name or the camera. And I
(36:37):
filmed on Joe Pickett. Who doyou play? I was Lucy Pickett,
so I was one of the daughters. And yeah, and where can people
watch it? Paramount Plus And ifthey don't have Paramount Plus, what can
they do? Download? They candownload it, but it's also a code
(36:59):
that's just piket and then you getone month free of Paramount Plus. So
then you can watch you can watchBilly the Kid, you can watch Joe
picket watch Stone like yellow Stone.Yeah, there's a lot of things on
there. Yeah, so you getone month free if you use the code
picket ye perfect. Awesome, thankyou so much, thank you. So
(37:22):
make sure you check that out.She's adorable. Adorable,
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