Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Here's the KCAA community calendar for the month of July.
The Redlands Theater Festival presents their fifty third season of
theater under the Stars in Prospect Park. Five productions in
rotating repertoire. There is something for everyone to enjoy. This
year's lineup includes Young Frankenstein, Radio Gals, The Spitfire Grill,
(00:22):
We Can't Take It With You, and The Thanksgiving Play.
Tickets and show schedule is available at rtfseason dot com.
The one hundred and second Redlands Bowl Summer Music Festival
will present free performances every Tuesday and Friday evening throughout
the month of July. Enjoy music of world class performers
under the Stars. Arrive early with your picnic dinner or
(00:45):
buy something to eat at their snack bar. Seating is
first come, first serve. Performances begin at eight pm. This
year's musical is Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor dream Coat.
July twenty fourth through the twenty seventh. So many wonderful
performances us all summer long. Located near downtown Redlands. If
sports is more you're liking, there's plenty of single a
(01:06):
professional baseball with three locations in the Inland Empire, the
sixty six Ers in San Bernardino, the Quakes in Rench Cucamonga,
and the Storm in Lake Elsinore. Check their website for
at home games and game time. On Wednesday nights beginning
at six pm, it's the weekly Locana League at Board
Game Paradise. Whether you're a seasoned player or just starting out,
(01:29):
the Lacana League is the perfect opportunity to dive into
the magical world of Locana Disney, meet fellow fans, and
enjoy some friendly competition. The cost is ten dollars. Located
at one O nine East State Street in Redlands.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
And that's the.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Latest from the KCAA community Calendar. I'm Lily Inbosquez on
KCAA ten fifty am and one O six point five ffian.
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This is Gary Garver.
Speaker 10 (04:25):
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Speaker 11 (07:10):
Well, I'm bom back down, No loll back down.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
You can stand me up back the gates of Melba.
Speaker 11 (07:24):
Loll back down, no stand my ground won't be turned around.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Can I keep this world from dragging me down?
Speaker 11 (07:40):
Donna stand my grom Hannah.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Long back down?
Speaker 12 (07:47):
I want.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Baby. There ain't always a way we stand man ground
and I won't back damn.
Speaker 13 (08:09):
Well, I know what's right.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
I got just one line in a world that keeps
sn pushing me around. But stand my ground and I
won't back.
Speaker 11 (08:28):
Then they ain't no easy wall.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
We'll stand man ground and I.
Speaker 11 (08:48):
Won't back damn.
Speaker 8 (09:15):
Bee.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
There ain't alwaysy ware whoa bags damn.
Speaker 14 (09:32):
Bee.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
There ain't alwasy way stand mad grin. Then won't bags
damn nor fags damn.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
Alright, alright, Welcome to AH, Welcome to the show tonight.
Welcome to the Reformer with Alan Berteleman. Tonight, ladies and gentlemen,
we have two great things going for us. We have
the foremost expert on wolves in America in this reporter's
(10:20):
humble opinion. And tonight we want to welcome a new sponsor. Tonight,
I'd like to welcome our new sponsor. The show is
brought to you by the Democratic Luncheon Club of San Bernardino,
the most active Democratic club in San Bernardino County since
nineteen ninety six. Every Friday at twelve fifteen sharp, meet
(10:46):
at the One Pyo Restaurant at Fifth and Mount Vernon
Avenue in San Bernardino and hear about the principles of
the Democratic Party. You will hear a new speaker each Friday.
The Democratic Luncheon Club has presented senators, congressmen, local officials,
and candidates for office since nineteen ninety six. If you
(11:11):
want to learn about the principles of the Democratic Party
and be informed and take a position and get involved,
this is the place for you. Fifth in Mount Vernon
every Friday, except this Friday. With they're dark because of
the birthday of our nation. So don't give up, get
(11:33):
going join the Democratic Luncheon Club today. Thank you now,
our guests. Tonight, I have seen this man pet wild wolves.
One hundred and fifty one hundred and sixty pound wolves
(11:54):
come over, They lick him, they pull on him, they
play with him. It is amazing what he can do
with wolves. He has several different varieties of wolves. He
has also varieties of fox, a couple of really nice
(12:17):
looking dogs. Just amazing things. Now he is a licensed
Federal zoo keeper. He doesn't go out and grab wolves
for no reason, take them home and play with them.
They're kept in cages. They're well fed. They're well fed
(12:40):
on wild food. And Mark will tell you about that tonight.
So let me bring on our first guest tonight, mister
Mark Martinez from I'm blanket on the name South Dakota,
from Deadwood, South Dakota. You've got to see this zoo.
(13:03):
You've got to see his gem and mineral shop there.
They are both magnificent. Mark, good evening and welcome.
Speaker 12 (13:13):
Well, thank you, Alan, and good evening to everyone.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
Mark, tell us a little bit about your background and
how did you get involved caring for wolves and other
wild creatures.
Speaker 15 (13:30):
Well, when I was a very young child, I loved
the original dog. And when I was a little kid,
our parents would take us to a zoo here in
the Black Hills of South Dakota, and the only thing
that separated the people from the animals was a single
(13:53):
log rail fence. Well, every time I had a chance
to cross that rail fence, I would, and I would
cut the.
Speaker 12 (14:04):
Wolf they had at that zoo, and I would always
get caught. I would.
Speaker 15 (14:16):
Then when I became nine years old, I was given
and I have now been raising wolves for fifty seven years.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Myle my, it's just amazing what I've seen you do
there and what you've shown the many people who come
by to get an education. But Mark, there's some controversies
going on, or maybe there aren't. The wolf is coming
back at Yellowstone, has been reintroduced there, and many people,
(14:56):
I think, maybe in the agrarian society, because Yellowstone is
right next to many ranches. The cattle ranchers, some of them,
not all appear to be against it. And as well,
I heard on the news just last week that the
(15:18):
gray wolf has spontaneously reintroduced itself into northern California.
Speaker 12 (15:27):
Yes, it had.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Now my folks are forty nine ers, I highly suspect
that not only do we have a great part in
wiping out the Modoc Indian population, Sorry grandfathers, but I
would venture a guest that we played some part in
(15:51):
the demise of the wolf. People think, you know, if
their child is out playing, a wolf is going to
get it. Branchers might think that something's going to happen
to their livestock. But would you tell would you tell
(16:11):
us what happened? Primary Let's start with Yellowstone when the
wolf was reintroduced into Yellowstone Yellowstone National Park? What changes
did we see in the ecology or the environment?
Speaker 14 (16:28):
Well, the changes, Oh there you're back, Yeah, your wife,
your WiFi, maybe a little squarely down there no pun intended.
Speaker 12 (16:49):
Okay, let me start this again.
Speaker 15 (16:55):
We were the wolves were reintroduced in nineteen, the elk
population and the deer population increased extremely.
Speaker 12 (17:09):
The herds became unhealthy.
Speaker 15 (17:12):
The vegetation was overgrazed, causing erosion and to flow into the.
Speaker 12 (17:23):
Streams and rivers. The sediment.
Speaker 15 (17:29):
Created the fish eggs so that they would not hatch,
so that trout and other fish population decreased.
Speaker 12 (17:41):
The food chain. Because of the.
Speaker 15 (17:45):
Elk and the deer populations increasing, so light and the
depreasing boss teased.
Speaker 12 (17:57):
The vegetation.
Speaker 15 (18:00):
Destroid caused bien population to disp the same.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
With the beaver.
Speaker 12 (18:08):
The beaver decreased. Kyos on their hand increased in population.
Speaker 15 (18:17):
Then after the wolves were re introduced, aspen trees came back,
willow trees came back, cottonwoods came back. Birds they had
been gone for years came back to Yellowstone. The fish
population increased, their population increased, beaver population increased, Kyo population
(18:47):
decreased because wolves were killed Kyos, the elk herds and
the deer herds became stable and healthy.
Speaker 12 (19:00):
And that's pretty much what happened in those.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
That's amazing.
Speaker 12 (19:05):
Something is going on.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
So the larger creatures that one would naturally expect the
wolf to prey on were so so numerous they were
ruining the streams and the rest of the environment. But
by naturally culling out I would assume the weakest of
(19:35):
those large game animals. That then affected the not only
the the animals themselves, but the fish in the water increased.
How did that happen?
Speaker 15 (19:54):
Absolutely well, the when the elk and the deer were
overgrazing the vegetation along the streams. When it would rain,
it would cause erosion and settlement would go into the
streams and rivers, and that will collect on the fish
eggs and create it so that the fish eggs will
(20:17):
not hatch, so the fish live out their life.
Speaker 12 (20:23):
But there would be no replacement. Fish population decreased.
Speaker 15 (20:30):
Now that the vegetation, nor now that the vegetation is back,
the fish population has increased.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
I was recently up in Deadwood and came back and
saw the streams up there, the famous fly fishing streams
of the Great Plains. It's magnificent. They're not high banks
streams like we often have here in California with a
(21:03):
river running down at the bottom. Your streams up there
are very much at ground level. The level of the
earth above the streams is just a foot or so.
So when a creature comes in there to drink, he
(21:26):
or she is going to really knock that mud down
into the stream. Am I correct?
Speaker 12 (21:35):
Correct? And that's where most of the settlement would come from.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
Now there's money in trout fishing, yes, there is. People
go up there. They tourists come up, they pay, they
pay to come into the territory. They employ guides, they
stay in nice hotels. They buy a ton of gear.
(22:04):
I know, I don't know any more gearhead people than
fly fishermen.
Speaker 15 (22:10):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Cabella's, Cabella's and and uh the other fly fishing stores
just make a ton on them.
Speaker 15 (22:19):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Or you can just have a simple rod and reel too,
and a and a nice line and brings a few flies.
You don't have to do all that. But it increased.
So it increases the human economy as well.
Speaker 12 (22:36):
Oh, absolutely it does it.
Speaker 15 (22:39):
Uh. It causes people to like to fish, to buy
license in state, or come from another state and buy
an out of state license. Uh. Same with the hunting,
the hunters coming in from other states, uh, and the
hunters here in state. It's it's a huge market for
(23:02):
making money. And it's all do believe it or not?
Speaker 12 (23:08):
To the wolf.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
Does it increase? Does it increase that one creature that's
emblematic of the Great Plains, the bison.
Speaker 15 (23:21):
It caused the bison to population to increase and the
herds become healthy. It's it's like there's a niche for everything,
and if one part of nature is gone, it disrupts
(23:43):
every other part.
Speaker 12 (23:45):
It's just amazing how it works.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
I'm reminded of the buffy Saint Marie song. Now that
the buffalo are gone. The buffalo where the the everything
to the indigenous people, to the Dakota people, to all
the people there, the ta Tonka as he's known. And
(24:15):
the white hunters and white tourists came through. They killed
the buffalo, skinned them, and left their bodies and bones
to rotten the sun. Some of that was for sport,
some of it done by United States troops. Was intentionally
(24:38):
to decimate the basis of the economy of the Dakota
people and to subjugate them. It was a genocide of
the buffalo in order to increase the genocide of the
indigenous people of the Plains, as it was, and that
(25:00):
ended well Sand Creek Massacre.
Speaker 7 (25:06):
And then.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Custer's Last stand. By the way, do you know what
they call the guy who graduates last in his class
from West Point? Sir?
Speaker 12 (25:23):
Yes, and I can't remember.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
But you know, one of the darkest, one of the
darkest chapters in American history began with the decimation of
the buffalo. And yes, I have a line on where
I can see some white buffalo and I intend as
soon as possible to get back up there to Deadwood,
(25:54):
South Dakota and North and have a look at those
magnificent creatures.
Speaker 12 (26:05):
Uh Mark tell us, I'd like to bring something else.
Speaker 15 (26:11):
I would like to bring up about the ranchers that
are adamantly against the wolf.
Speaker 12 (26:22):
There is a known fact.
Speaker 15 (26:26):
That if a rancher will take loud speaker and play
the recording of wolf howls another an actual pack of
wolves will not come into and it will not cross
(26:52):
another wolf pax territory, and they will keep them away.
The other thing I would like to say is if
I was a cattle rancher, I would actually want the.
Speaker 12 (27:07):
Government to turn wolves loose on my property. And the
reason for.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
We're having some broadcast technical problems and marks back go ahead.
Speaker 15 (27:31):
The reason that is that mll any cattle that is
taken by wolves, the government will pay full market value.
And that's what I assume cattle ranchers are in the
business court is to make money.
Speaker 12 (27:56):
So personally I would want the wolves.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
That's what I always heard when I was up there.
I never saw such extraordinary investment in ranches and farms
as those farmers have up there. They must they must
have millions of dollars worth of heavy equipment in order
to efficiently ranch and farm there.
Speaker 12 (28:23):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 15 (28:27):
And one nice thing is that with mine there are
ranchers and hunters every year that are donating food to
my animals.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
What do you feed your What do you feed your wolves?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Mark?
Speaker 15 (28:44):
They get deer, elk, beef, chicken, turkey, fish, and good
kibble dog food.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
Can I come to dinner, but hold the kibble.
Speaker 12 (29:02):
Absolutely any time?
Speaker 5 (29:07):
Mark? Tell me a little bit about the about the
wolf pack.
Speaker 16 (29:10):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
I understand that the female wolf uh uh takes a
leadership position. Uh Is that correct? Yes?
Speaker 12 (29:22):
He does?
Speaker 16 (29:24):
Uh?
Speaker 12 (29:25):
Helf a female and then the male, the alpha male.
Speaker 15 (29:31):
Uh.
Speaker 12 (29:31):
He will even take care of the babies. Uh. When
a wolf pack is traveling.
Speaker 15 (29:43):
More people assume that the alpha pair are the are
the wolves in the leader of the pack, but actually
in the rear and the ones that are for the
old the sticks the piece for the pack.
Speaker 12 (30:02):
No one moved behind.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
M hmm, yeah, Mark, What what's going on when these
wolves howl at night? You hear them out howling? People
say they're they're howling at the moon. Is there more
to it than that?
Speaker 12 (30:30):
There?
Speaker 5 (30:30):
There must be more to it, because I can't imagine
that that's their only entertainment. Well, why why are the
wolves howling at night?
Speaker 12 (30:43):
Well, they're they're staying in contact with each other. That's
the most important thing.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
They're contact is important. Uh, very similar uh to what
we know about the whales.
Speaker 16 (31:03):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
They they sing, they sing to one another and uh
even change their song.
Speaker 12 (31:10):
Uh right, right?
Speaker 5 (31:14):
What's your what's your.
Speaker 12 (31:16):
Howl? Whimper?
Speaker 15 (31:18):
All all different types of different vocal organizations?
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Mark, we have a we have we have a caller.
Uh who'd uh like to uh talk to you? Uh,
Jaya from northern California.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Are you there?
Speaker 5 (31:38):
What's on your mind? Jaya?
Speaker 16 (31:40):
Yes, I am here. I was wondering, Mark, did you
ever get the chance to read Never Cry Wolf by
Farley Moat?
Speaker 12 (31:53):
Uh, it's based on a true story.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Yes, uh, Jay, I haven't read it. Tell us a
bit about the story.
Speaker 16 (32:08):
Well, it's a It was a study done by a
biologist up in Canada and they sent him out to
the frozen tundra to study the wolves, and he found
out there were very gentle creatures, much to his amazement.
(32:28):
One of my favorite chapters in the book is Wolf's Talk,
where the where the Eskimo guide that Starley Moat had
with him actually could understand the howlings and the vocalizations
(32:49):
of the wolves and could tell if there was He
could tell if they were saying that, you know, some
humans were coming, or that caribou heard is forty miles
away in this direction. It was just really mind altering
(33:09):
to be able to understand another creature like that.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
Fantastic, Hey, Mark, How intelligent is a wolf? I've been
told that my German shepherd dog, even though he can't
vocalize in human speech, is about as intelligent as a
three year old human child. How intelligent is a wolf
(33:37):
in comparison to a dog or a human?
Speaker 15 (33:44):
According to the studies that I know of, they're saying
that a wolf is equivalent to a five year old child.
As far as for intelligence, and one of the studies
that I really uh enjoyed watching was they took three
(34:12):
boards and made U shape and they put a roll
hanging off of each board, and the and the canines
they used would have to each one would have to
grab one of the ropes and pull at the same
(34:33):
time to pull the board back so they could get
the food. And they brought out several dogs, and it
never worked with a dog. And they brought out wolves,
and immediately the wolves went over. One went to one rope,
the other went to the other rope. They pulled in
(34:53):
sequence and got the food. The absolutely they do.
Speaker 12 (35:05):
And minor.
Speaker 15 (35:08):
If I don't put clips on the gates, they will
open them. I know a lot of dogs will open doors,
but these are the type of clips that are supposed
to hold canines like for kennels. And the wolves they
know how to open them. They figure them out.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
Mark, I know that the German, the original German shepherd
bred in the late nineteenth century in Germany, has two
wolves in its lineage, and it's pretty obvious. You can
see it in the original German Shepherd, and you can
(35:51):
see it even in Max, my German shepherd whom I
brought whom I brought up to Deadwood when we came
to your zoo. Right, what what would you recommend that people?
(36:13):
I've heard of people breeding wolves modern wolves with their dogs,
which what would you have to say about that? Is
that a good idea?
Speaker 15 (36:24):
I would disagree. I think it's a bad idea. The genetics.
Not enough is really known about the genetics now. A
lot of people will say I have a wolf high
red and it's fifty wolf because one parent was a
(36:48):
wolf and the other parent was a dog. That is
not necessarily true because in that litter, because of the genetics,
there could be some of the babies that are one
hundred percent pure dog.
Speaker 12 (37:05):
There could be some of them that are half wolf
half dog.
Speaker 15 (37:11):
There could be others in the litter that are one
hundred percent pure wolf. So I think it's a very
bad idea to do the hybrids. And the other thing
with the hybrids is you have created a canine that
is not a wolf more is it a dog. And
(37:33):
granted you could have a wonderful animal or you could
have a monster, it's just a toss up in the genetics.
But with a hybrid, you will have an animal that
will grow up to be the size of a wolf
or very close size of a wolf, but with no
(37:56):
fear of man.
Speaker 12 (37:59):
And wolves a natural fear of man.
Speaker 15 (38:02):
A wolf in the wild will never attack a person
unless you came across to Dan and tried to take
some of the babies or one of the babies. Well,
of course the parents are going to protect their babies.
Speaker 12 (38:19):
But in all of known world.
Speaker 15 (38:21):
History, there has never been a recorded wolf attack on
a human by a healthy wolf.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
I'm reminded mark of the legendary origin story of ancient Rome,
and this story is that two boys, two brothers, were orphaned,
Romulus and Remus, and they were suckled by a wolf.
(38:52):
Have there been instances of wolves actually caring for human beings?
Speaker 12 (39:00):
Yes, there has.
Speaker 15 (39:03):
And my favorite story is in Canada, there was a
hiker that got lost and they were searching for him.
They did see him at quite a distance up up
the side of a mountain, and they saw him laying
laying down, and they saw two wolves laying next to him. Well,
(39:25):
they thought at first that the guy had passed away
and that the wolves were checking his body out. Well,
when they got closer, the two wolves trotted up the
mountain a little ways and stayed up there and watched
(39:47):
all the rescuers as he came to the lost hiker,
and he discovered it. He was alive. He was cold,
but he was alive. He was fine, and the two
wolves actually laid down next to him, kept him warm
and saved his life. Quite the story.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Wow is all I can say, and it is true.
I know that my German shepherd Max is just scary smart.
He is so s he is. He does things after
(40:33):
I show him two times. He does things on his
own that amaze me. He comes to my bed for
a kiss good night or a rub of his neck.
He I carry him with me everywhere. He loves to
(40:59):
ride in the car. He loves to put his his
head down where the air conditioner will keep him cool,
and and look up at me and say, Dad, let's go,
come on, come on, come on. When I leave the car,
he lays down in the back seat. I crack the
windows a little bit if it's if it's very hot.
(41:21):
And I've heard people say, hey, your dog wasn't too
happy when I came near the car, I said, well,
maybe maybe you shouldn't come to close the car. I apologize.
Speaker 12 (41:39):
I will protect their territory.
Speaker 5 (41:41):
I've never taught him to attack. You know, he's he's
a service animal and he has to be calm with people.
He loves children. He'll sit and shake hands with them
and then lie down, let them rubbish tummy, and he
(42:01):
just he not only tolerates it, he seems to love it.
And the smaller the child, the more the more he
likes it.
Speaker 15 (42:14):
Is that.
Speaker 5 (42:16):
It seems like that's the trade of the wolves that
you described, that we're caring for that human being.
Speaker 6 (42:24):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 12 (42:25):
It is a lot like that.
Speaker 15 (42:28):
They love little children at least, mind you, they're very gentle,
but when they play, they do play rougher than a dog.
Speaker 5 (42:45):
Huh. What kind of weight are your largest wolves?
Speaker 15 (42:51):
My largest one right now is about two forty about
two hundre than forty pounds. Whoa and the big doggy.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
Yeah, I think Max might be the run of his litter.
And when he's not working, he's about eighty pounds. When
when we're out working on a regular basis he gets
he drops about five pounds.
Speaker 15 (43:24):
Right.
Speaker 12 (43:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 15 (43:28):
This one that I'm talking about is Mackenzie River Valley
wolf out of the Mackenzie River Valley Alaska.
Speaker 12 (43:36):
They're the largest in the world and they get very large.
Speaker 5 (43:45):
Yeah, I've seen them in.
Speaker 9 (43:48):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (43:49):
They can be standoffish when there's a lot of strangers around,
and it's it's hard to judge their size over on
the other side of their enclosure.
Speaker 12 (44:00):
But right easier to judge when I'm in with them.
Speaker 5 (44:08):
Yeah, and when they're when they're looking at me over there,
I'm not sure sure if they're intent.
Speaker 12 (44:19):
Oh, they're not going to hurt you on purpose.
Speaker 5 (44:22):
Yeah, I'm not going to get close enough to let
that happen.
Speaker 15 (44:28):
I get beat up by him once in a while
when they're playing, but no, no aggression. And and like
with mine, they're so bonded to me that I can
actually pet their muscles while they're eating.
Speaker 12 (44:48):
Can't do that with most dogs.
Speaker 15 (44:51):
I can take food right out of the mouth of
every single one of them, pull their ears, pull their tails,
pull their noses.
Speaker 12 (44:58):
They don't care. They're just very gentle.
Speaker 5 (45:02):
Do they look at you as their pack leader or
what do you think is going on there?
Speaker 15 (45:08):
I think they look at me as the alpha wolf.
I think they do look at me as a pack leader.
And uh, even uh, even the little little cubs, they're
They're always following me underneath my feet.
Speaker 12 (45:30):
They uh, they act like I'm their mama.
Speaker 5 (45:37):
Mark is a is a uh? Is a wolf color blind?
Or are they able to distinguish colors? Blue? Green? In particular?
Speaker 15 (45:51):
After all the research that I have done myself, including
reading other people's work, I firmly believe that they could
see in color.
Speaker 5 (46:08):
I have.
Speaker 15 (46:09):
I will have people stop by and if someone is
wearing a red shirt, they do not like it.
Speaker 12 (46:19):
Hm hm, they will stay completely away.
Speaker 5 (46:22):
Oh, well I was wearing red. I was wearing red
the other.
Speaker 13 (46:26):
Day, right, And and uh Odin and o'riyen wouldn't come
up with they they.
Speaker 5 (46:37):
Were completely on the other side of the enclosion. And
as I say, I wasn't too sure if their intent.
Speaker 15 (46:46):
And and then you know, and then if a person
that was wearing, say the red shirt, uh puts a
different shirt on, the attitude is completely different. It's amazing.
So I do believe they can see in color. Maybe
not like us, but they can see in in some color.
Speaker 12 (47:13):
Amazing at least that's my belief.
Speaker 5 (47:18):
Well, what would you Mark, What would you say about
our wolves in northern California that have apparently spontaneously reintroduced themselves.
How should how should the state of How should the
state regulate our treatment of them? How should people uh
(47:46):
treat or interact or not interact with these gray wolves
in northern California.
Speaker 15 (47:53):
I believe that there was probably only a couple of
them there so far, and I think that the California
Game Fish and parks should probably radio collar them, live
trap them, radio color them so they can track them.
(48:13):
And I think as far as the population, people should
just leave them alone and let them survive, and they will.
And once they do survive and actually establish themselves, people
if they watch, will see changes in nature for the better.
Speaker 12 (48:41):
And people out hiking or running.
Speaker 15 (48:46):
The wolves they won't bother them at all, and they'll
probably never see them because the wolves will know a
couple miles before the runners or the hikers would even
realize there were wolves in the area, and the wolves
would be gone. They just don't want anything to do
(49:09):
with us, And we're supposed to be the smart species.
Speaker 12 (49:14):
We're not.
Speaker 5 (49:19):
There's so many things that happen here in southern California.
We have the California puma, we fishing game numbers them
to give them a name, right, and many of them
were wearing radio collars. Unfortunately, their habitat is the San
(49:46):
Fernando Valley and the Hollywood Hills and Griffith Park, and
that is that is not a good area, no, because yeah,
and what's and what's happening is uh. In order in
(50:07):
order to allow these creatures some modicum of wildness, we
we put them in. Well, we we actually have to
build land bridges for them over a freeway of which
we have many, as I'm sure you know in southern
(50:30):
California or or under, so that they can easily travel
from place to place. The good news about that is
many other creatures are using these passageways, uh, in order
to pass from place to place. And as long as
(50:50):
they're unmolested, uh, they seem to be relatively passive and
docile creatures. But what I've been told about the puma
is that if from they will chase down a human
being that they think is running from them, because they
(51:14):
believe it's then their natural prey. And people are advised
just to turn and face the wildcat. Make themselves large
as possible, although you may be shrinking in size, make
yourself as large as possible. Make a lot of noise,
(51:36):
and the puma will go away. What would happen with
the chance encounter with a wolf?
Speaker 15 (51:47):
Wolf essentially do the same thing, but the wolf will
probably be much more afraid of you than you.
Speaker 12 (51:56):
Will be of it.
Speaker 5 (51:58):
Yeah, don't bet on it if it's me.
Speaker 15 (52:00):
But but yes, the wolves will will actually leave people alonge.
The only time that a wolf will actually get aggressive is,
like I said earlier, if someone is molesting their babies,
(52:24):
and then it'll do what it has to do to
protect the babies. Or if someone would happen to corner
a wolf, it will try to get away and if
it can't, if it has to, it'll run right through you,
(52:44):
knock you over and keep going. But it's not going
to stop an attack.
Speaker 5 (52:51):
Amazing. Jaya from Northern California. Are you still with us?
Speaker 15 (52:55):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (52:56):
Yeah, what's on your mind now? Anything? Any questions are from.
Speaker 16 (53:01):
Mark Well, I was going to I definitely agree with
him about the hybrid. The wolf tends to be, you know,
very afraid and wary of humans, not not really so
much afraid as just going around the humans, staying out
(53:24):
of the humans path, whereas the dog doesn't have fear
of a human and they can be way more aggressive
than a wolf. So the breeding of them, the dog
and the wolf is a bad idea. Although if you
end up with a you know, a hybrid dog wolf,
(53:45):
you know, you do your best to train it, and
they are trainable, but it's not a good idea. And
from what I understand, the problem with the hybrid wolf
is it doesn't understand and the wolf language, so it
totally misses out on all of the language that a
(54:05):
wolf would normally learn and its family. And it's done.
Speaker 12 (54:14):
Right.
Speaker 15 (54:15):
You're you are exactly right, and they are. They can
be very, very dangerous. In fact, I know someone here
in South Dakota that has a highbred and they asked
me to come in.
Speaker 12 (54:37):
See what I could do with their highbred.
Speaker 15 (54:39):
And unfortunately, what I had to tell people is that
that dog was a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Speaker 12 (54:50):
It was I have never seen such an aggressive animal.
Speaker 16 (54:54):
Mm hmm, it was.
Speaker 12 (54:56):
It was terrible. So I do not recommend the hybrids.
Speaker 5 (55:04):
Mark it occurs to me that we have we have rabies,
especially in the cities. Everybody knows that the sign of
a rabid dog the foaming at the mouth, the erratic behavior.
It's called hydrophobia. Scientifically, Uh correct, and uh uh, you
(55:27):
definitely want to stay away from any mammal that appears
to be acting erratically, and if it has a visible
mouth with with salivary glands, if it's foaming at the mouth,
you want to be going in the other direction. Are
(55:48):
wolves in nature affected by any diseases?
Speaker 15 (55:53):
If so, what, Well, of course they could get affected
by rabies or the mange.
Speaker 12 (56:07):
They could. They can get parvo.
Speaker 15 (56:10):
Uh, they can actually get bordtella, which they call kennel cough.
Speaker 12 (56:19):
So wolves can can catch virtually any disease or sickness
that a dog can.
Speaker 5 (56:27):
And parvo is a terrible thing to see in a puppy. Oh,
I've seen you know. Unvaccined puppies should be vaccinated as
soon as a veterinarian, uh recommends, because once they catch parvo,
it's nearly incurable.
Speaker 15 (56:47):
What do you do?
Speaker 5 (56:49):
You vaccinate the creatures in your care?
Speaker 12 (56:54):
Oh?
Speaker 15 (56:54):
Yes, they get They get all the vaccines, and the
baby get vaccines starting at six weeks.
Speaker 5 (57:07):
Uh do you do you administer the medications yourself?
Speaker 15 (57:14):
I administer all the medications except rabies. Well, I kind
of have to back that up a little bet. I
give them the raby shots, but I do it under
the supervision of my veterinarian.
Speaker 5 (57:37):
Do you have a special Do you have a specialized vet?
I know some some veterinarians have an additional license to
do things with health certificates of dogs. Do you have
a specialized vet?
Speaker 12 (57:49):
There, No, we don't not up here and I have.
Speaker 15 (57:56):
I have four different veterinarians in case one of them
is on vacation or something. But the thing that impressed
me when I asked these veterinarians if they would consider
being the veterinarians for my wolves, what they told me
(58:17):
was that I knew more about those animals than they
would ever know. And that is what impressed me. And
that's how I wound up with four veterinarians. And they're good.
They seem to know what they're doing. At least I've
(58:40):
had no problems with them at all. And of course,
if I have to take one to the veterinarian office
and then everybody's pulling out their cell phones and their
cameras and taking pictures.
Speaker 5 (58:55):
Mark, I want to thank you for your expertise and
your fastdatis story Tonight's jay up from Northern California. Thank you.
Tonight's show was brought to you by the Democratic Luncheon
Club of Sam Bernardino. And let's go out and with
Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs and a bit of
(59:17):
a human wolf, little.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
Red riding Hood. I don't think Little Big Girl should
go wonking. They spooky old alone.
Speaker 12 (59:35):
What big hides you have?
Speaker 4 (59:38):
The kind of ide the drive.
Speaker 3 (59:40):
Horseman who doesn't see that you don't get chase nothing.
Speaker 4 (59:45):
God go Wong.
Speaker 7 (59:49):
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Speaker 11 (07:10):
Well, I'm bom back down, No loll back down.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
You can stand me up back the gates of Melba.
Speaker 11 (07:24):
Loll back down, no stand my ground won't be turned around.
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Can I keep this world from dragging me down?
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Donna stand my grom Hannah.
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Long back down?
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I want.
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Then they ain't no easy wall.
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We'll stand man ground and I.
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Bee.
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Speaker 5 (09:55):
Alright, alright, Welcome to AH, Welcome to the show tonight.
Welcome to the Reformer with Alan Berteleman. Tonight, ladies and gentlemen,
we have two great things going for us. We have
the foremost expert on wolves in America in this reporter's
(10:20):
humble opinion. And tonight we want to welcome a new sponsor. Tonight,
I'd like to welcome our new sponsor. The show is
brought to you by the Democratic Luncheon Club of San Bernardino,
the most active Democratic club in San Bernardino County since
nineteen ninety six. Every Friday at twelve fifteen sharp, meet
(10:46):
at the One Pyo Restaurant at Fifth and Mount Vernon
Avenue in San Bernardino and hear about the principles of
the Democratic Party. You will hear a new speaker each Friday.
The Democratic Luncheon Club has presented senators, congressmen, local officials,
and candidates for office since nineteen ninety six. If you
(11:11):
want to learn about the principles of the Democratic Party
and be informed and take a position and get involved,
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every Friday, except this Friday. With they're dark because of
the birthday of our nation. So don't give up, get
(11:33):
going join the Democratic Luncheon Club today. Thank you now,
our guests. Tonight, I have seen this man pet wild wolves.
One hundred and fifty one hundred and sixty pound wolves
(11:54):
come over, They lick him, they pull on him, they
play with him. It is amazing what he can do
with wolves. He has several different varieties of wolves. He
has also varieties of fox, a couple of really nice
(12:17):
looking dogs. Just amazing things. Now he is a licensed
Federal zoo keeper. He doesn't go out and grab wolves
for no reason, take them home and play with them.
They're kept in cages. They're well fed. They're well fed
(12:40):
on wild food. And Mark will tell you about that tonight.
So let me bring on our first guest tonight, mister
Mark Martinez from I'm blanket on the name South Dakota,
from Deadwood, South Dakota. You've got to see this zoo.
(13:03):
You've got to see his gem and mineral shop there.
They are both magnificent. Mark, good evening and welcome.
Speaker 12 (13:13):
Well, thank you, Alan, and good evening to everyone.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
Mark, tell us a little bit about your background and
how did you get involved caring for wolves and other
wild creatures.
Speaker 15 (13:30):
Well, when I was a very young child, I loved
the original dog. And when I was a little kid,
our parents would take us to a zoo here in
the Black Hills of South Dakota, and the only thing
that separated the people from the animals was a single
(13:53):
log rail fence. Well, every time I had a chance
to cross that rail fence, I would, and I would
cut the.
Speaker 12 (14:04):
Wolf they had at that zoo, and I would always
get caught. I would.
Speaker 15 (14:16):
Then when I became nine years old, I was given
and I have now been raising wolves for fifty seven years.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Myle my, it's just amazing what I've seen you do
there and what you've shown the many people who come
by to get an education. But Mark, there's some controversies
going on, or maybe there aren't. The wolf is coming
back at Yellowstone, has been reintroduced there, and many people,
(14:56):
I think, maybe in the agrarian society, because Yellowstone is
right next to many ranches. The cattle ranchers, some of them,
not all appear to be against it. And as well,
I heard on the news just last week that the
(15:18):
gray wolf has spontaneously reintroduced itself into northern California.
Speaker 12 (15:27):
Yes, it had.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Now my folks are forty nine ers, I highly suspect
that not only do we have a great part in
wiping out the Modoc Indian population, Sorry grandfathers, but I
would venture a guest that we played some part in
(15:51):
the demise of the wolf. People think, you know, if
their child is out playing, a wolf is going to
get it. Branchers might think that something's going to happen
to their livestock. But would you tell would you tell
(16:11):
us what happened? Primary Let's start with Yellowstone when the
wolf was reintroduced into Yellowstone Yellowstone National Park? What changes
did we see in the ecology or the environment?
Speaker 14 (16:28):
Well, the changes, Oh there you're back, Yeah, your wife,
your WiFi, maybe a little squarely down there no pun intended.
Speaker 12 (16:49):
Okay, let me start this again.
Speaker 15 (16:55):
We were the wolves were reintroduced in nineteen, the elk
population and the deer population increased extremely.
Speaker 12 (17:09):
The herds became unhealthy.
Speaker 15 (17:12):
The vegetation was overgrazed, causing erosion and to flow into the.
Speaker 12 (17:23):
Streams and rivers. The sediment.
Speaker 15 (17:29):
Created the fish eggs so that they would not hatch,
so that trout and other fish population decreased.
Speaker 12 (17:41):
The food chain. Because of the.
Speaker 15 (17:45):
Elk and the deer populations increasing, so light and the
depreasing boss teased.
Speaker 12 (17:57):
The vegetation.
Speaker 15 (18:00):
Destroid caused bien population to disp the same.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
With the beaver.
Speaker 12 (18:08):
The beaver decreased. Kyos on their hand increased in population.
Speaker 15 (18:17):
Then after the wolves were re introduced, aspen trees came back,
willow trees came back, cottonwoods came back. Birds they had
been gone for years came back to Yellowstone. The fish
population increased, their population increased, beaver population increased, Kyo population
(18:47):
decreased because wolves were killed Kyos, the elk herds and
the deer herds became stable and healthy.
Speaker 12 (19:00):
And that's pretty much what happened in those.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
That's amazing.
Speaker 12 (19:05):
Something is going on.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
So the larger creatures that one would naturally expect the
wolf to prey on were so so numerous they were
ruining the streams and the rest of the environment. But
by naturally culling out I would assume the weakest of
(19:35):
those large game animals. That then affected the not only
the the animals themselves, but the fish in the water increased.
How did that happen?
Speaker 15 (19:54):
Absolutely well, the when the elk and the deer were
overgrazing the vegetation along the streams. When it would rain,
it would cause erosion and settlement would go into the
streams and rivers, and that will collect on the fish
eggs and create it so that the fish eggs will
(20:17):
not hatch, so the fish live out their life.
Speaker 12 (20:23):
But there would be no replacement. Fish population decreased.
Speaker 15 (20:30):
Now that the vegetation, nor now that the vegetation is back,
the fish population has increased.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
I was recently up in Deadwood and came back and
saw the streams up there, the famous fly fishing streams
of the Great Plains. It's magnificent. They're not high banks
streams like we often have here in California with a
(21:03):
river running down at the bottom. Your streams up there
are very much at ground level. The level of the
earth above the streams is just a foot or so.
So when a creature comes in there to drink, he
(21:26):
or she is going to really knock that mud down
into the stream. Am I correct?
Speaker 12 (21:35):
Correct? And that's where most of the settlement would come from.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
Now there's money in trout fishing, yes, there is. People
go up there. They tourists come up, they pay, they
pay to come into the territory. They employ guides, they
stay in nice hotels. They buy a ton of gear.
(22:04):
I know, I don't know any more gearhead people than
fly fishermen.
Speaker 15 (22:10):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Cabella's, Cabella's and and uh the other fly fishing stores
just make a ton on them.
Speaker 15 (22:19):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Or you can just have a simple rod and reel too,
and a and a nice line and brings a few flies.
You don't have to do all that. But it increased.
So it increases the human economy as well.
Speaker 12 (22:36):
Oh, absolutely it does it.
Speaker 15 (22:39):
Uh. It causes people to like to fish, to buy
license in state, or come from another state and buy
an out of state license. Uh. Same with the hunting,
the hunters coming in from other states, uh, and the
hunters here in state. It's it's a huge market for
(23:02):
making money. And it's all do believe it or not?
Speaker 12 (23:08):
To the wolf.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
Does it increase? Does it increase that one creature that's
emblematic of the Great Plains, the bison.
Speaker 15 (23:21):
It caused the bison to population to increase and the
herds become healthy. It's it's like there's a niche for everything,
and if one part of nature is gone, it disrupts
(23:43):
every other part.
Speaker 12 (23:45):
It's just amazing how it works.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
I'm reminded of the buffy Saint Marie song. Now that
the buffalo are gone. The buffalo where the the everything
to the indigenous people, to the Dakota people, to all
the people there, the ta Tonka as he's known. And
(24:15):
the white hunters and white tourists came through. They killed
the buffalo, skinned them, and left their bodies and bones
to rotten the sun. Some of that was for sport,
some of it done by United States troops. Was intentionally
(24:38):
to decimate the basis of the economy of the Dakota
people and to subjugate them. It was a genocide of
the buffalo in order to increase the genocide of the
indigenous people of the Plains, as it was, and that
(25:00):
ended well Sand Creek Massacre.
Speaker 7 (25:06):
And then.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Custer's Last stand. By the way, do you know what
they call the guy who graduates last in his class
from West Point? Sir?
Speaker 12 (25:23):
Yes, and I can't remember.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
But you know, one of the darkest, one of the
darkest chapters in American history began with the decimation of
the buffalo. And yes, I have a line on where
I can see some white buffalo and I intend as
soon as possible to get back up there to Deadwood,
(25:54):
South Dakota and North and have a look at those
magnificent creatures.
Speaker 12 (26:05):
Uh Mark tell us, I'd like to bring something else.
Speaker 15 (26:11):
I would like to bring up about the ranchers that
are adamantly against the wolf.
Speaker 12 (26:22):
There is a known fact.
Speaker 15 (26:26):
That if a rancher will take loud speaker and play
the recording of wolf howls another an actual pack of
wolves will not come into and it will not cross
(26:52):
another wolf pax territory, and they will keep them away.
The other thing I would like to say is if
I was a cattle rancher, I would actually want the.
Speaker 12 (27:07):
Government to turn wolves loose on my property. And the
reason for.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
We're having some broadcast technical problems and marks back go ahead.
Speaker 15 (27:31):
The reason that is that mll any cattle that is
taken by wolves, the government will pay full market value.
And that's what I assume cattle ranchers are in the
business court is to make money.
Speaker 12 (27:56):
So personally I would want the wolves.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
That's what I always heard when I was up there.
I never saw such extraordinary investment in ranches and farms
as those farmers have up there. They must they must
have millions of dollars worth of heavy equipment in order
to efficiently ranch and farm there.
Speaker 12 (28:23):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 15 (28:27):
And one nice thing is that with mine there are
ranchers and hunters every year that are donating food to
my animals.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
What do you feed your What do you feed your wolves?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Mark?
Speaker 15 (28:44):
They get deer, elk, beef, chicken, turkey, fish, and good
kibble dog food.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
Can I come to dinner, but hold the kibble.
Speaker 12 (29:02):
Absolutely any time?
Speaker 5 (29:07):
Mark? Tell me a little bit about the about the
wolf pack.
Speaker 16 (29:10):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
I understand that the female wolf uh uh takes a
leadership position. Uh Is that correct? Yes?
Speaker 12 (29:22):
He does?
Speaker 16 (29:24):
Uh?
Speaker 12 (29:25):
Helf a female and then the male, the alpha male.
Speaker 15 (29:31):
Uh.
Speaker 12 (29:31):
He will even take care of the babies. Uh. When
a wolf pack is traveling.
Speaker 15 (29:43):
More people assume that the alpha pair are the are
the wolves in the leader of the pack, but actually
in the rear and the ones that are for the
old the sticks the piece for the pack.
Speaker 12 (30:02):
No one moved behind.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
M hmm, yeah, Mark, What what's going on when these
wolves howl at night? You hear them out howling? People
say they're they're howling at the moon. Is there more
to it than that?
Speaker 12 (30:30):
There?
Speaker 5 (30:30):
There must be more to it, because I can't imagine
that that's their only entertainment. Well, why why are the
wolves howling at night?
Speaker 12 (30:43):
Well, they're they're staying in contact with each other. That's
the most important thing.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
They're contact is important. Uh, very similar uh to what
we know about the whales.
Speaker 16 (31:03):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
They they sing, they sing to one another and uh
even change their song.
Speaker 12 (31:10):
Uh right, right?
Speaker 5 (31:14):
What's your what's your.
Speaker 12 (31:16):
Howl? Whimper?
Speaker 15 (31:18):
All all different types of different vocal organizations?
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Mark, we have a we have we have a caller.
Uh who'd uh like to uh talk to you? Uh,
Jaya from northern California.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Are you there?
Speaker 5 (31:38):
What's on your mind? Jaya?
Speaker 16 (31:40):
Yes, I am here. I was wondering, Mark, did you
ever get the chance to read Never Cry Wolf by
Farley Moat?
Speaker 12 (31:53):
Uh, it's based on a true story.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Yes, uh, Jay, I haven't read it. Tell us a
bit about the story.
Speaker 16 (32:08):
Well, it's a It was a study done by a
biologist up in Canada and they sent him out to
the frozen tundra to study the wolves, and he found
out there were very gentle creatures, much to his amazement.
(32:28):
One of my favorite chapters in the book is Wolf's Talk,
where the where the Eskimo guide that Starley Moat had
with him actually could understand the howlings and the vocalizations
(32:49):
of the wolves and could tell if there was He
could tell if they were saying that, you know, some
humans were coming, or that caribou heard is forty miles
away in this direction. It was just really mind altering
(33:09):
to be able to understand another creature like that.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
Fantastic, Hey, Mark, How intelligent is a wolf? I've been
told that my German shepherd dog, even though he can't
vocalize in human speech, is about as intelligent as a
three year old human child. How intelligent is a wolf
(33:37):
in comparison to a dog or a human?
Speaker 15 (33:44):
According to the studies that I know of, they're saying
that a wolf is equivalent to a five year old child.
As far as for intelligence, and one of the studies
that I really uh enjoyed watching was they took three
(34:12):
boards and made U shape and they put a roll
hanging off of each board, and the and the canines
they used would have to each one would have to
grab one of the ropes and pull at the same
(34:33):
time to pull the board back so they could get
the food. And they brought out several dogs, and it
never worked with a dog. And they brought out wolves,
and immediately the wolves went over. One went to one rope,
the other went to the other rope. They pulled in
(34:53):
sequence and got the food. The absolutely they do.
Speaker 12 (35:05):
And minor.
Speaker 15 (35:08):
If I don't put clips on the gates, they will
open them. I know a lot of dogs will open doors,
but these are the type of clips that are supposed
to hold canines like for kennels. And the wolves they
know how to open them. They figure them out.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
Mark, I know that the German, the original German shepherd
bred in the late nineteenth century in Germany, has two
wolves in its lineage, and it's pretty obvious. You can
see it in the original German Shepherd, and you can
(35:51):
see it even in Max, my German shepherd whom I
brought whom I brought up to Deadwood when we came
to your zoo. Right, what what would you recommend that people?
(36:13):
I've heard of people breeding wolves modern wolves with their dogs,
which what would you have to say about that? Is
that a good idea?
Speaker 15 (36:24):
I would disagree. I think it's a bad idea. The genetics.
Not enough is really known about the genetics now. A
lot of people will say I have a wolf high
red and it's fifty wolf because one parent was a
(36:48):
wolf and the other parent was a dog. That is
not necessarily true because in that litter, because of the genetics,
there could be some of the babies that are one
hundred percent pure dog.
Speaker 12 (37:05):
There could be some of them that are half wolf
half dog.
Speaker 15 (37:11):
There could be others in the litter that are one
hundred percent pure wolf. So I think it's a very
bad idea to do the hybrids. And the other thing
with the hybrids is you have created a canine that
is not a wolf more is it a dog. And
(37:33):
granted you could have a wonderful animal or you could
have a monster, it's just a toss up in the genetics.
But with a hybrid, you will have an animal that
will grow up to be the size of a wolf
or very close size of a wolf, but with no
(37:56):
fear of man.
Speaker 12 (37:59):
And wolves a natural fear of man.
Speaker 15 (38:02):
A wolf in the wild will never attack a person
unless you came across to Dan and tried to take
some of the babies or one of the babies. Well,
of course the parents are going to protect their babies.
Speaker 12 (38:19):
But in all of known world.
Speaker 15 (38:21):
History, there has never been a recorded wolf attack on
a human by a healthy wolf.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
I'm reminded mark of the legendary origin story of ancient Rome,
and this story is that two boys, two brothers, were orphaned,
Romulus and Remus, and they were suckled by a wolf.
(38:52):
Have there been instances of wolves actually caring for human beings?
Speaker 12 (39:00):
Yes, there has.
Speaker 15 (39:03):
And my favorite story is in Canada, there was a
hiker that got lost and they were searching for him.
They did see him at quite a distance up up
the side of a mountain, and they saw him laying
laying down, and they saw two wolves laying next to him. Well,
(39:25):
they thought at first that the guy had passed away
and that the wolves were checking his body out. Well,
when they got closer, the two wolves trotted up the
mountain a little ways and stayed up there and watched
(39:47):
all the rescuers as he came to the lost hiker,
and he discovered it. He was alive. He was cold,
but he was alive. He was fine, and the two
wolves actually laid down next to him, kept him warm
and saved his life. Quite the story.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Wow is all I can say, and it is true.
I know that my German shepherd Max is just scary smart.
He is so s he is. He does things after
(40:33):
I show him two times. He does things on his
own that amaze me. He comes to my bed for
a kiss good night or a rub of his neck.
He I carry him with me everywhere. He loves to
(40:59):
ride in the car. He loves to put his his
head down where the air conditioner will keep him cool,
and and look up at me and say, Dad, let's go,
come on, come on, come on. When I leave the car,
he lays down in the back seat. I crack the
windows a little bit if it's if it's very hot.
(41:21):
And I've heard people say, hey, your dog wasn't too
happy when I came near the car, I said, well,
maybe maybe you shouldn't come to close the car. I apologize.
Speaker 12 (41:39):
I will protect their territory.
Speaker 5 (41:41):
I've never taught him to attack. You know, he's he's
a service animal and he has to be calm with people.
He loves children. He'll sit and shake hands with them
and then lie down, let them rubbish tummy, and he
(42:01):
just he not only tolerates it, he seems to love it.
And the smaller the child, the more the more he
likes it.
Speaker 15 (42:14):
Is that.
Speaker 5 (42:16):
It seems like that's the trade of the wolves that
you described, that we're caring for that human being.
Speaker 6 (42:24):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 12 (42:25):
It is a lot like that.
Speaker 15 (42:28):
They love little children at least, mind you, they're very gentle,
but when they play, they do play rougher than a dog.
Speaker 5 (42:45):
Huh. What kind of weight are your largest wolves?
Speaker 15 (42:51):
My largest one right now is about two forty about
two hundre than forty pounds. Whoa and the big doggy.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
Yeah, I think Max might be the run of his litter.
And when he's not working, he's about eighty pounds. When
when we're out working on a regular basis he gets
he drops about five pounds.
Speaker 15 (43:24):
Right.
Speaker 12 (43:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 15 (43:28):
This one that I'm talking about is Mackenzie River Valley
wolf out of the Mackenzie River Valley Alaska.
Speaker 12 (43:36):
They're the largest in the world and they get very large.
Speaker 5 (43:45):
Yeah, I've seen them in.
Speaker 9 (43:48):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (43:49):
They can be standoffish when there's a lot of strangers around,
and it's it's hard to judge their size over on
the other side of their enclosure.
Speaker 12 (44:00):
But right easier to judge when I'm in with them.
Speaker 5 (44:08):
Yeah, and when they're when they're looking at me over there,
I'm not sure sure if they're intent.
Speaker 12 (44:19):
Oh, they're not going to hurt you on purpose.
Speaker 5 (44:22):
Yeah, I'm not going to get close enough to let
that happen.
Speaker 15 (44:28):
I get beat up by him once in a while
when they're playing, but no, no aggression. And and like
with mine, they're so bonded to me that I can
actually pet their muscles while they're eating.
Speaker 12 (44:48):
Can't do that with most dogs.
Speaker 15 (44:51):
I can take food right out of the mouth of
every single one of them, pull their ears, pull their tails,
pull their noses.
Speaker 12 (44:58):
They don't care. They're just very gentle.
Speaker 5 (45:02):
Do they look at you as their pack leader or
what do you think is going on there?
Speaker 15 (45:08):
I think they look at me as the alpha wolf.
I think they do look at me as a pack leader.
And uh, even uh, even the little little cubs, they're
They're always following me underneath my feet.
Speaker 12 (45:30):
They uh, they act like I'm their mama.
Speaker 5 (45:37):
Mark is a is a uh? Is a wolf color blind?
Or are they able to distinguish colors? Blue? Green? In particular?
Speaker 15 (45:51):
After all the research that I have done myself, including
reading other people's work, I firmly believe that they could
see in color.
Speaker 5 (46:08):
I have.
Speaker 15 (46:09):
I will have people stop by and if someone is
wearing a red shirt, they do not like it.
Speaker 12 (46:19):
Hm hm, they will stay completely away.
Speaker 5 (46:22):
Oh, well I was wearing red. I was wearing red
the other.
Speaker 13 (46:26):
Day, right, And and uh Odin and o'riyen wouldn't come
up with they they.
Speaker 5 (46:37):
Were completely on the other side of the enclosion. And
as I say, I wasn't too sure if their intent.
Speaker 15 (46:46):
And and then you know, and then if a person
that was wearing, say the red shirt, uh puts a
different shirt on, the attitude is completely different. It's amazing.
So I do believe they can see in color. Maybe
not like us, but they can see in in some color.
Speaker 12 (47:13):
Amazing at least that's my belief.
Speaker 5 (47:18):
Well, what would you Mark, What would you say about
our wolves in northern California that have apparently spontaneously reintroduced themselves.
How should how should the state of How should the
state regulate our treatment of them? How should people uh
(47:46):
treat or interact or not interact with these gray wolves
in northern California.
Speaker 15 (47:53):
I believe that there was probably only a couple of
them there so far, and I think that the California
Game Fish and parks should probably radio collar them, live
trap them, radio color them so they can track them.
(48:13):
And I think as far as the population, people should
just leave them alone and let them survive, and they will.
And once they do survive and actually establish themselves, people
if they watch, will see changes in nature for the better.
Speaker 12 (48:41):
And people out hiking or running.
Speaker 15 (48:46):
The wolves they won't bother them at all, and they'll
probably never see them because the wolves will know a
couple miles before the runners or the hikers would even
realize there were wolves in the area, and the wolves
would be gone. They just don't want anything to do
(49:09):
with us, And we're supposed to be the smart species.
Speaker 12 (49:14):
We're not.
Speaker 5 (49:19):
There's so many things that happen here in southern California.
We have the California puma, we fishing game numbers them
to give them a name, right, and many of them
were wearing radio collars. Unfortunately, their habitat is the San
(49:46):
Fernando Valley and the Hollywood Hills and Griffith Park, and
that is that is not a good area, no, because yeah,
and what's and what's happening is uh. In order in
(50:07):
order to allow these creatures some modicum of wildness, we
we put them in. Well, we we actually have to
build land bridges for them over a freeway of which
we have many, as I'm sure you know in southern
(50:30):
California or or under, so that they can easily travel
from place to place. The good news about that is
many other creatures are using these passageways, uh, in order
to pass from place to place. And as long as
(50:50):
they're unmolested, uh, they seem to be relatively passive and
docile creatures. But what I've been told about the puma
is that if from they will chase down a human
being that they think is running from them, because they
(51:14):
believe it's then their natural prey. And people are advised
just to turn and face the wildcat. Make themselves large
as possible, although you may be shrinking in size, make
yourself as large as possible. Make a lot of noise,
(51:36):
and the puma will go away. What would happen with
the chance encounter with a wolf?
Speaker 15 (51:47):
Wolf essentially do the same thing, but the wolf will
probably be much more afraid of you than you.
Speaker 12 (51:56):
Will be of it.
Speaker 5 (51:58):
Yeah, don't bet on it if it's me.
Speaker 15 (52:00):
But but yes, the wolves will will actually leave people alonge.
The only time that a wolf will actually get aggressive is,
like I said earlier, if someone is molesting their babies,
(52:24):
and then it'll do what it has to do to
protect the babies. Or if someone would happen to corner
a wolf, it will try to get away and if
it can't, if it has to, it'll run right through you,
(52:44):
knock you over and keep going. But it's not going
to stop an attack.
Speaker 5 (52:51):
Amazing. Jaya from Northern California. Are you still with us?
Speaker 15 (52:55):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (52:56):
Yeah, what's on your mind now? Anything? Any questions are from.
Speaker 16 (53:01):
Mark Well, I was going to I definitely agree with
him about the hybrid. The wolf tends to be, you know,
very afraid and wary of humans, not not really so
much afraid as just going around the humans, staying out
(53:24):
of the humans path, whereas the dog doesn't have fear
of a human and they can be way more aggressive
than a wolf. So the breeding of them, the dog
and the wolf is a bad idea. Although if you
end up with a you know, a hybrid dog wolf,
(53:45):
you know, you do your best to train it, and
they are trainable, but it's not a good idea. And
from what I understand, the problem with the hybrid wolf
is it doesn't understand and the wolf language, so it
totally misses out on all of the language that a
(54:05):
wolf would normally learn and its family. And it's done.
Speaker 12 (54:14):
Right.
Speaker 15 (54:15):
You're you are exactly right, and they are. They can
be very, very dangerous. In fact, I know someone here
in South Dakota that has a highbred and they asked
me to come in.
Speaker 12 (54:37):
See what I could do with their highbred.
Speaker 15 (54:39):
And unfortunately, what I had to tell people is that
that dog was a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Speaker 12 (54:50):
It was I have never seen such an aggressive animal.
Speaker 16 (54:54):
Mm hmm, it was.
Speaker 12 (54:56):
It was terrible. So I do not recommend the hybrids.
Speaker 5 (55:04):
Mark it occurs to me that we have we have rabies,
especially in the cities. Everybody knows that the sign of
a rabid dog the foaming at the mouth, the erratic behavior.
It's called hydrophobia. Scientifically, Uh correct, and uh uh, you
(55:27):
definitely want to stay away from any mammal that appears
to be acting erratically, and if it has a visible
mouth with with salivary glands, if it's foaming at the mouth,
you want to be going in the other direction. Are
(55:48):
wolves in nature affected by any diseases?
Speaker 15 (55:53):
If so, what, Well, of course they could get affected
by rabies or the mange.
Speaker 12 (56:07):
They could. They can get parvo.
Speaker 15 (56:10):
Uh, they can actually get bordtella, which they call kennel cough.
Speaker 12 (56:19):
So wolves can can catch virtually any disease or sickness
that a dog can.
Speaker 5 (56:27):
And parvo is a terrible thing to see in a puppy. Oh,
I've seen you know. Unvaccined puppies should be vaccinated as
soon as a veterinarian, uh recommends, because once they catch parvo,
it's nearly incurable.
Speaker 15 (56:47):
What do you do?
Speaker 5 (56:49):
You vaccinate the creatures in your care?
Speaker 12 (56:54):
Oh?
Speaker 15 (56:54):
Yes, they get They get all the vaccines, and the
baby get vaccines starting at six weeks.
Speaker 5 (57:07):
Uh do you do you administer the medications yourself?
Speaker 15 (57:14):
I administer all the medications except rabies. Well, I kind
of have to back that up a little bet. I
give them the raby shots, but I do it under
the supervision of my veterinarian.
Speaker 5 (57:37):
Do you have a special Do you have a specialized vet?
I know some some veterinarians have an additional license to
do things with health certificates of dogs. Do you have
a specialized vet?
Speaker 12 (57:49):
There, No, we don't not up here and I have.
Speaker 15 (57:56):
I have four different veterinarians in case one of them
is on vacation or something. But the thing that impressed
me when I asked these veterinarians if they would consider
being the veterinarians for my wolves, what they told me
(58:17):
was that I knew more about those animals than they
would ever know. And that is what impressed me. And
that's how I wound up with four veterinarians. And they're good.
They seem to know what they're doing. At least I've
(58:40):
had no problems with them at all. And of course,
if I have to take one to the veterinarian office
and then everybody's pulling out their cell phones and their
cameras and taking pictures.
Speaker 5 (58:55):
Mark, I want to thank you for your expertise and
your fastdatis story Tonight's jay up from Northern California. Thank you.
Tonight's show was brought to you by the Democratic Luncheon
Club of Sam Bernardino. And let's go out and with
Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs and a bit of
(59:17):
a human wolf, little.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
Red riding Hood. I don't think Little Big Girl should
go wonking. They spooky old alone.
Speaker 12 (59:35):
What big hides you have?
Speaker 4 (59:38):
The kind of ide the drive.
Speaker 3 (59:40):
Horseman who doesn't see that you don't get chase nothing.
Speaker 4 (59:45):
God go Wong.
Speaker 7 (59:49):
NBC News on CACAA Lomlada, sponsored by Teamsters Local nineteen
thirty two, protecting the Future of Working Families, Teamsters nineteen
thirty two dot org uh h.
Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Hello and welcome to Backstory. I'm Lily and Vasquez, the
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