August 3, 2023 • 26 mins
Join Host Drew Murray and Guest Robert Jones; President of the Republican Log Cabin on "The Republican Zone" for a captivating political talk. From taxes to unity, we explore crucial issues and inspiring stories. Subscribe now for thought-provoking discussions and positive change!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Check Check. Republican Zone is broughtto you by Drew Murray. Good afternoon,
you're watching USSELA Media and the RepublicanZone. I have on my show
today my good friend Rob Jordan's presidentof the Pennsylvania log Cabin Republicans. So
(00:24):
Rob, you've been on my showagain. Thanks for you've been on my
show before. Thanks for coming,you for having me back. Yeah.
Now for for those who don't know, because I'll be honest, I think
I said this story last time whenI first met you. Why not for
I first met you when you toldme you were endorsing me in twenty nineteen.
You were like, I'm with theblock. I met you and talked
to you like, yeah, DrewCamera, Roblicans, we're gonna endorse you.
And I was like, thank you, that's awesome. And I turned
(00:46):
around. I googled lock camera.What's lock Cabin? I do a lock
camera? Republicans that are and andAnd I say this unfortunately because a lot
of people think Republicans LGBT, thatthat most are or not most, but
they think Republicans are opposed to andthey don't know that there's actually a group
like your So explain to people whatis the log Cabin Republicans. Sure,
(01:07):
Lock Cabin Republicans refers to Abraham Lincoln, who was our first Republican president and
rumored to be possibly in the LGBTcommunity. So we take the title from
Ape Lincoln Lock Cabin Republicans, andwe are the conservative movement of lesbian,
gay, by sexual, transgender Republicansaround the country. We operate by chapters,
(01:30):
so we have regional chapters like thePhiladelphia chapter associated with we have New
York City, Florida, Texas,California, a lot of big chapters around
the country, but we all cometogether as a national organization to support federal
candidates, and then on a localbasis, like with you, we seek
out local candidates state candidates to supportand get the message out that it's okay
(01:55):
to be a conservative LGBTQ community memberand had those viewpoints so often when we
started, we felt like we wereshut out, that it was going so
woke, we did not have avoice. So our organization has grown significantly
in the last ten years as theother side has gotten less inclusionary and more
(02:16):
exclusionary. So yeah, so peopleare surprised when I tell them that I'm
like there are gay Republicans and they'relike, no, no, they're not.
I go to your events a lot, and I'll be honest with you,
most of your members, I'm amonter, are way more conservative than
I am. I mean, andthey look at me as I'm not going
(02:37):
to say Ryano, but they lookat me because I used to be a
Democrat. You used to be aDemocrat. In many ways, we're very
similar. I mean, we kindof came over at the same time.
I think, you know, Idon't want to speak for you, but
you know, when I would tellpeople I support the LGBT community, they'd
be like, well, that you'rea Democrat. Or actually, I should
say I thought I was a Democratbecause I supported the LGBT community. You
(03:00):
know. It was like, Isupport unions, you know, I'm this
that. I'm like, I wasalways a free market capitalist. But I
was like, oh, well,you know I support LGBT, the LGBT
community, I am. That meansI'm clearly a Democrat. You probably felt
the same way, like I ama gay man, I'm a Democrat.
There exactly the message. Now,when I was in college, I was
(03:21):
Villanova University College Republican president. Iloved Ronald Reagan. But after that,
when the Clintons came around, alot of us in the gay community,
as we came out, identified withBill and Hillary Clinton, so we gravitated
towards the community. It was assumedyou would be Democrat because Bill and Hillary
were Democrats. So back in thatera, yeah, most of us,
a lot of us were Democrats,and some of our strongest members now are
(03:44):
former Democrats like myself who just wantto have a voice and a place at
the table and a big tent toshare messages and have a conversation. Many
of us are so active now becausewe felt shut out in our own community,
in the neighborhood, in the WilliamWaye Center, wherever felt like you
could not even speak about other viewpointsthan the ones being put out by the
(04:06):
far left. And you imagine theWilliam Waye Center. I believe I remember
a story where you were supposed tospeak there four years ago at this point
and what happened. So four yearsago, the William Waye Center invited me
to come speak. They knew aboutour chapter, the log Cabin. They
wanted the viewpoint shared because several peoplein the William Waye Center had asked for
(04:28):
the viewpoint to be shared, andI was working with their communications director and
the president, Chris Bartlett, knewabout the invitation and it was extended right
as I was walking in that dayto do the show, much like the
show right now, on this studio, I had a transgender person stopped me
at the front door and say,your kind is not welcome here. Your
(04:48):
kind can never cross the door,And I said what? And then everything
really blew up, and the WilliamWaite Center board sided with these loud voices
within the William White Center clientele.They didn't even want a conservative message or
a conservative discussion to happen within thedoors. Even though they were saying how
(05:09):
inclusionary they were correct, they weredoing the opposite their inclusionary in their own
minds, but really from a conservativestandpoint and a theological standpoint, politically right,
they were anything exactly their inclusionary.When they want money, when they
want government taxpayer funds and they wantgrants, they're open to all, But
in reality they're not. So Iwas shut out of the building and as
(05:29):
a result, one of the bigdonors stopped giving to the center. He
wrote a very strong letter to ChrisBartlett that I'm copied on, and other
donors also stopped giving, so theylost support, they lost donors, they
lost people like me that gave inthe past, because who's going to go
somewhere where you're told you can't evencross the door. That's his exclusionaries.
It gets and just recently and whenI read the article in the paper about
(05:51):
how on a federal level that fundswere cut to I think it was only
like three or four organizations around thecountry, And as soon as I read
it, I'm like, this isridiculous. I'm like, why are they
doing this? They're obviously talking tothe LGBT community. I was embarrassed as
a Republican. But then I readone of the organizations was was Willying Way,
and I was like, I wonderif it's not that their funds are
(06:15):
being cut because they're ALGBT, butit's because they're exclusionary. And I think
you texted me like an hour afterI read the article, and I don't
know for certain, but I'm assumingthat's that's probably why, because I didn't
do anything specifically, but my storyis out there. Other stories are out
there where they are exclusionary, andif if they want the taxpayer money from
(06:35):
one hundred percent of the citizens,why would you exclude at least fifty percent?
And willing Way does a lot ofgreat things. I don't want to
sit here and like bash the WillyingWaite Center because I know, I know
they do do a lot of things. But I think everyone needs to understand
inclusionary means, you know, differentvoices, even you know we're not.
I was telling, you know,I've lost friends when I became a Republican,
and I was like, I'm stillthe same exact person I always was.
(06:57):
I was, you know, Iwas. I was a Dino when
I was a Democrat Democrat name onlynow people call me a Rhyano. I
said, I didn't move my ideology. I just felt like the party did
shift. Uh. You know,I don't think it's the Party of Kennedy
anymore. I know that. Idon't even know, although I feel like
it's going back again. I said, I don't even know if it's the
Party of Clinton. I mean,I voted for Bill Clinton. And you
(07:17):
know when he said, you know, welfare is a second chance, it's
not a way of life, Imean, that's that's that's still how I
feel I'm one percent have that mindset. I'm not sure the progressive wing anyway
of the Democrat Party they do notfeel that way. They want guaranteed jobs,
they want they want rank control,they want, you know, everything
(07:40):
that has failed for centuries. Thatis what they want, even though they've
always failed, because they know theyknow how to do it. Now.
I love when they talk about rankcontrol and I'm like, well, I
have to do is say New Yorklikes New York. Is New York affordable?
It's not affordable because those those wholive in rent control apartments, Yeah,
that they're still affordable. And Iunderstand that the desire to have affordable
(08:01):
housing, but not through run controlbecause everywhere else gets expensive. Correct.
And we're against quotas at Lockhabin.We want to see at the table because
we're good, we're smart, we'reaccomplished, we have good insight. We
don't want to see at the tablebecause we're one tenth or one fifteenth of
their quota. Yeah, so that'sthe fallacy, and that's why we're so
strong at Lockhabin and pushing that message. You see it in the cabinet right
(08:24):
now, in President Bien's cabinet.You have someone in their heading transportation who
fit his bill, his quota doesmaybe does not have the experience to run
airlines and shipping and train traffic.And now we've had all these problems last
two and half years, and look, people to check his brilliant he's much
more intelligent than I am. Butyou don't you don't do you have no
experience? I mean it would belike you know, putting any of you
(08:48):
could put Einstein in charge of transportation. If he doesn't know what he's doing
and doesn't have the experience, thenhe's not Look, he would Look,
they got ninety five rebuilt, andI'm sure people would have check was was
part of that? Obviously, JoshShapiro was part of it. Governor Shapiro
was and I will give credit wherecredit is due. They got it done.
But no, there's a lot thathe just doesn't have. There were
What's frustrated is there probably were anumber of things that he could have done
(09:11):
in the cabinet and he would havebeen qualified for, but not not transportation.
What do your transportation? I waslike, what is he thinking?
People to chicken is brewing it?But he doesn't have the experience that it
takes to run the exactly and nowthe whole country pays the price exactly.
So um the primary this year inthe city Philadelphia. I don't know about
(09:33):
you, but I was pleasantly surprisedon how a lot of those races turned
out. The Progressives did not doas well, honestly, as well as
I thought they were going to do. I thought it was going to be
a progressive wave and a lot ofpeople were nervous, but it didn't happen.
Um. And I'll use you know, Helen him is an example.
(09:56):
I don't Hellen's a friend, Isaid. I don't pick my I don't
pick my friend based on their politicalideologies. Are also, I would have
no friends in the city of Philadelphiabecause there are not many Republicans in the
city of Philadephia. Although think they'rea lot more conservatives than they're all registered.
But you know, I thought Hollendwas a showing. If you asked
me in January, I said,Hollend's gonna win. I said, holes
(10:18):
Hollen's base is going to get there. They're gonna get out the vote.
The more people running for mayor,the better it is for Hellen. And
obviously I thought she was a showingbut it didn't. It didn't have an
old what i'll call an old schoolDemocrat in the primary. You know,
we're still a general. I remindpeople that all the time, Dave David
Owen Sharp Parker will be running forthe general. But Sharob Parker won won
the primary. I was not expectedat it. Where were you thinking?
(10:41):
We weren't either. I was thinkingit was going to be a progressive But
again, the progressives are tied tothe crime increase in the city and average
average Philadelphians don't feel safe in thecity. Exactly. We in our community.
We frequent the gighborhood in Center City, and many, many, many
people now will cut or evening shortat ten o'clock where we used to stay
out to midnight or two am.You don't want to be walking in Center
(11:05):
City. What time would you cutit to come on now? Midnight?
What did you ever cut it atmidnight? Every two or three? Oh?
Yeah, we were up to two, three or four sometimes some of
the day after hours clubs. Butcrime is really I would say the number
one kitchen table issue in the city, and I believe that's what drove the
results were the primary sure. Iwas at City Hall last night and there
(11:28):
were just a number of people.Look, I'm empathetic to people who are
homeless, and you know, Iwant everyone to help. But there were
it. There were scores of homelesspeople around City Hall, around MSB.
And I was actually going to getChristy picking her up near City Hall.
And I'll be honest, five yearsago, I would have told her to
walk home. It was only itwas only nine o'clock at night. It
(11:50):
wasn't like it was two thirty inthe morning. But I said, I
was coming back from ann event.I'm like, I will pick you up,
do not walk home. I didn'teven want her getting an uber because
if she hadn't walk outside and wait, I was nervous for and look,
I blame it on on District JournelKraser. I'll say the name. I
mean, if you look at thevariable between you know, before he took
(12:11):
office till now, then just lookat the murder rate. Look look at
data. Something you cannot refute.The murder rate is almost twice as much
as it was right the year before. One of the safest years, by
the way, was the year beforehe took office. And look the pandemic
absolutely had an effect on things,and I'm not going to blame and when
murders did spike, yeah, thepandemic has something to do with that.
But the bottom line is when youhave progressive policies, when you don't prosecute
(12:35):
crime at every single level, i'dcall trickle of criminality. When you know,
when you just tell people that cango into a drug store and take
out four hundred and ninety nine dollarsworth of the product and we're not going
to do anything too, then itleads to larger crimes. Exactly. It's
a huge quality of life issue,especially again for those of us who frequent
Center City and you go to thedrug store or the convenience store, everything's
(12:58):
locked up. You have to askfor it to be given. You're always
wondering who else is in the storesor someone going to rob it while you're
there is another concern. And thenif you like we you know, I
like the high end stores once ina while to walk through, you're wondering
if there's going to be a heistthere or an action. So it just
leads to not loving the things aboutthe city that we all used to love
(13:20):
and wanting to get out. Idon't have a drug store within two blocks
on my house. The reason Ilive in this I grew up in Vanova.
I was a suburban night like youwent, you went to O'Hara,
so Springfield. I went to theprep. I grew up in Vanova.
I wanted to be able to walkto everywhere. I always said, I
want to be able to walk,wake up in the morning, get a
newspaper, and be able to walkto a restaurant. I don't buy,
you know, walk to get anewspaper anymore, but that's what I wanted.
(13:41):
I want to be able to walkto everything. Now it's not super
bar. The closest drug store though, is it's like seven blocks, which
is not a lot, it's youknow, three quarters of a mile basically.
But when you live in the cityfor convenience and and we used to
have basically by the way, twoor three within a read a four block
radius, they're all they're all closingnow, so there is a direct effect
(14:05):
that you can look at wawas areleaving. Wawas are leaving like crazy.
The Wawa at two thousand Market Streetwas packed all the time. Yeah,
during the day. At night itwas opened. It was open twenty four
hours a day, or at leastwait late in tonight if you if you
needed something at two in the morningand you would go there and it would
be packed. They didn't leave becauseof a lack of business. They left
(14:28):
because people would walk in literally justgrabbed a whole bunch of as long as
it was four hundred ninety nine dollarsninety nine cents. Yeah, walk out.
They told him that had said itpublicly. It was that. I
even said when he said it publicly, I'm like, if you're gonna have
if you're gonna practice it, fine, but don't tell people that, right.
And so now all the Wawas areclosing. I heard there's one,
(14:50):
uh and in Logan Square, butyou know north of the Parkway, I
heard that one's closing. They're allthey're all leaving. Yeah, And it's
that. I mean, it's notlike Wawa is the you know, be
all end all. But the morebusinesses leave, the worst office is.
Yeah. And I know what peoplesay, oh is the pandemic and people
(15:11):
aren't back to work, and thatis absolutely part of it. But the
most part it's quality living. It'sit's crime, and that's why these stories
are leaving in the city. Butpart of that is companies may not want
to bring people back in Center Cityif the if their workforce. That's a
great point. Yeah, so that'sthe pushback. A lot of workers in
Center City are saying, I don'twant to go back five days a week.
It's not safe. Yeah. Christyhas a friend who was who was
(15:33):
mugged, and she's like, I'mnot going back to the office. Yeah
she was. It was kind oftowards the end of the pandemic when when
businesses started to say, Okay,come in once a week, twice a
week. She was mugged and I'mnot going back into the city. You
know, that's if you're scared.And it goes on to public transportation as
well. I mean public transportations aproblem. Now. Part of that is
(15:54):
because they don't have enough officers,because you know, we're going to defund
the police, We're going to doall these things at the Progressive movement wanted.
So now I mean the Philadelphia policeforce, we're down thirteen hundred officers.
We don't have enough police. Youknow, Philadelphia police, let alone
set the police because why would anybodywant to go into that profession when you
(16:15):
were told on a daily basis,you're you're, you're a bad person,
You're not doing a good job,right, I mean so, and and
it's only going to get worse.I tell people that there are a lot
of officers who are going to whoare set too, were trotting to retire.
You can tell that from the dropprogram there. We're going to lose
a lot more officers than are comingin. So that thirteen hundred numbers is
only going to keep increasing, andcrime is only going to get unfortunately,
(16:37):
only going to get worse until wecan get until we can recruit and get
that force back up, to backup the full force. Right, I
mean you left the city, you'reyou're, you're no longer And did you
sell I know you had both housesfor a little while. Yeah, Yeah,
Northern Liberties is gone and now it'sSwarthmore. Yeah. Did the crime
play a role and in your decision? Yeah. I'm a huge walker.
(17:02):
I love to walk miles a dayif I can, and I didn't feel
safe walking back from Center City atnight. I had a couple of experiences
where I was this close to somethingand I had an angel on my shoulder
and got through it. But it'sit's just the experience many of our community
you're experiencing. It's just not safe, and you don't you don't feel And
I go back to that example.Last night when I was I parked,
(17:23):
I walked to where Christie was atCity Hall and I was like, this
is I don't feel safe here,Like I never felt unsafe in Center City
and the almost twenty years I've livedhere, day or night, no matter
what, matter what time of day, sometimes in the middle of night for
work I'm going to construction sites atthree in the morning. Never once was
(17:44):
I like, wow, this isthis does not feel safe. And Love
Parks the same way I walked throughLove Park, I've walked through you know
obviously City Hall in front of theMSB building. It is not safe.
It's not as safe as it used. It's not the way I tell people
suburbs. I said, it's notthe wild West like people you know,
you watch the news, you thinkyou're duck in, you know, under
(18:04):
gunfire, although in some areas peopleare. I mean, that's that's to
me. It feels like Gotham City, like you never know when there's someone
behind you. You're just never sure, no, And and that's my head
has always been on a swibbow sinceI was, you know, growing up.
I went to Saint Jose Prep atthe seventeenth in Girard when that was
a you know, it was itwas it was a tough area and uh
(18:25):
and I would come home, youknow later fight football, so i'd be
out, you know, it wouldbe dark sometimes when I was leaving the
prep. But my head's always beenon a swibbo just in case. But
I will tell you seventeenth in Girardin nineteen eighty nine is nothing compared to
broad in market right now. Andthat's that says a lot. I mean,
we are taught at the prep.You never you know, if you
(18:45):
come back late at night, youknow it was the two bust, you
would take it like, never takeit by yourself, like always make sure
there was someone with you. Now, that's that's the way we are in
centers. Say, a lot ofour club takes offense with the ATVs that
just seemed to be riding with impunity, Like who thinks this is fine to
have these gangs of mad Max gangsand are roaming the streets and sidewalks and
(19:07):
and and putting everyone's safety and securityin jeopardy. And look, they know
and understand that there there's no culpability, and it's a tough That is probably
one of the tougher situations. Idon't necessarily you know the answer now,
but but when you have this cultureof you're not going to get in trouble
if you do something illegal, Imean, it is tough. The police
don't necessarily want to chase because ifthey do chase, then and you've seen
(19:30):
it even even in some circumstances,they go up on the sidewalks all of
a sudden, so everyone is putin danger. And some of these people
on the bikes are just kids.You know, you have the adults leading
them, and then you know,it's it's a complete disgrace. You see
these like twenty thirty forty year oldmen and then like right behind them are
like ten, ten eleven year oldkids. Right. So that's so that's
a challenge. But it goes backto culpability. It's it's it's lawlessness.
(19:53):
They think they can do whatever theywant. And and and that's a great
point. That's a quality of lifeissue that I hear a lot in Center
City and people are like, well, just build them an area where they
can ride their their their ATVs ordirt bikes. And I tell them all
number one two things, how arethey going to get to this location?
(20:15):
You know? Not like we havetrailers and in the city to put the
bikes on, so they're not ableto get there. Number One, it
would take a huge area in thecity of Philadelphia. It's completely untunattainable.
Like, what are you gonna youknow, uh, Belmont Plateau, Baby,
that's big enough. But then whatare you gonna do for all those
people use Belmont Plateau for what it'scurrently supposed to use for for outdoor baseball
(20:38):
across country and things like that.And then number two, it is the
thrill of doing something illegal. Youcould we could give we could give people
who ride these little ILLOI TVs anddirt bikes an area and they would still
go out on the street. Ohdefinitely, yeah, because it's it's that's
it's it is part of the thrill. They they they they love it.
(21:00):
Um they because and this is whyI tell people if if if they're not
in it because they want to breakthe law for the thrill, why did
they go through red lights? Likethey could ride and ride to the next
light stop. They don't stop andgo again. And I said that that's
part of the thrill. So itwill do absolutely nothing. I'll be honest
with I also don't like to rewardbad behavior. It's like, okay,
(21:22):
so we're so they're doing something illegal, So instead of prosecuting them for doing
something illegal, we're going to rewardthem with the location where they can do
it legally. I mean, it'sit's insane sometimes when you when you hear
some of the answers that people get, well, in order to solve this
problem, just create create an areawhere they can write them and then overdo
it. So so what else doyou have going on? So? I
(21:45):
know you guys have events like whatdoes what does log Cabin do? Like
on a on a regular bit,I know you have like happy hours.
We have socials and meetings for peopleto come and discuss the topics which they
don't feel comfortable or when they tryto talk about it at dinner parties are
in the bars, they get shutdown. Now it's so woke, So
you have to give a safe spacefor people to talk. And that's what
(22:07):
we do. And we also tryto find candidates that are aligned with with
our goals and give them a venueto speak and to talk to our members.
And that's been going on. Sowe're really looking forward to next year
to the Senate races and presidential andallow of the races that is going to
be a huge Twenty twenty four isgoing to be huge. You have the
presidential and and and the Senate racethat we and I say we, the
(22:32):
Republicans, will put someone up againstBob Casey, um, and Bob Casey
to me, I voted for BobKy. I remember when I voted for
Bob Casey because he was the hewas the moderate. Yeah, he was
the pro life moderate. Um,and he was he was his father,
you know, I know I votedfor I voted for Bob Casey because I
thought Bob Casey was his father.Well, he's been nothing like his father.
(22:55):
And I'm interested to see who whowas going to run against him.
I assume while we also I assumeit's Dave McCormick, But I don't know
if you're hearing the we've already reachedout to tav mcormick's campaign to say we're
we're here for you. Yeah.So yeah, we're hoping it's Dave McCormick.
I I think Dave came very closeto uh to beating doctor Oz in
the primary. And this is nothingagainst doctor Ozz. I think he ran
(23:18):
a good campaign. He just wasn'tborn here, really wasn't from here.
You know, Dave McCormick did livein Connecticut for a little bit, but
he was born and raised here andand it's back. I think I'll be
honest with you, and again,this is nothing disparaging to doctor Oz.
I think I think Dave McCormick wouldhave won that last year against Spedderman.
And I think he can beat BobCasey. It's gonna be tough because I
(23:40):
think a lot of people still lookat Bob Caseys this monitor, and I'm
like, Bob Casey's not a monitor. You gotta look at how he votes.
And I'll be honest with you,I think he just votes wherever people
tell him to vote, right,I mean, not to be disparaged.
He hasn't been a leader in thestate. He hasn't been a leader.
Now, yeah, exactly that.That's the perfect way to explain. He
hasn't been a leader. He justkind of he follows and does whatever he
thinks the party wants him to do, and that's not what I want in
(24:03):
the Senator. So I think Ithink Dave McCormick can beat him, right.
I think he has the experience ofthe campaign from last time. And
look, you know, everyone makesmistakes during the campaign. So I think
Dave McCormick is gonna look at thatcampaign and be like, Okay, this
is what I did, this iswhat I should have done differently, and
he's gonna come at it full throttle. I'm surprised he hasn't announced yet,
but my guess is right after November, because that's meaning there are a lot
(24:30):
a lot of important elections come inthis this November. I mean I'm obviously
I'm one of them. I'm runningthrough the City council a large spot as
a Republican. So I think you'regoing to see Dave raid after he's raising
money obviously, and he also hassome money. Um. I think right
after November you're gonna see him,see see him announced. Yeah, we're
excited for Dave. No. Ithink I think he's uh. I think
(24:52):
he's gonna be a great candidate.I think he will be great in the
Senate because I think he's one ofthose people. It's that's facing. He's
not going in it. He's notgoing into the Senate for for the money.
So he has he has much moremoney than both you and I have
combined, and maybe ten times that. So and I think that's a good
way, you know, I'd likethat when politicians don't have to do it
for the money, because they're onlygoing to do it for what they believed,
(25:15):
exactly, so exactly, So we'rewe're coming to an end. It
felt like it took about five minutes, because yeah, we only do thirty
minutes now. Last time we camein for an hour. So I want
to thank you for coming in.We're gonna have you come in again,
Drew. Well, have you maybeeven come in before the election or if
not, we'll come in, uhright after for a victory's gnostications. Yeah,
exactly. I we'll come in forthe victory celebration after I win on
(25:38):
November seven. So thank you again. Thank you you've been watching USULA Media
and The Republican Zone. I amyour host. Have a great day.
The Republican Zone is brought to youby Drew Murray.
Check Check. Republican Zone is broughtto you by Drew Murray. Good afternoon,
you're watching USSELA Media and the RepublicanZone. I have on my show
today my good friend Rob Jordan's presidentof the Pennsylvania log Cabin Republicans. So
(00:24):
Rob, you've been on my showagain. Thanks for you've been on my
show before. Thanks for coming,you for having me back. Yeah.
Now for for those who don't know, because I'll be honest, I think
I said this story last time whenI first met you. Why not for
I first met you when you toldme you were endorsing me in twenty nineteen.
You were like, I'm with theblock. I met you and talked
to you like, yeah, DrewCamera, Roblicans, we're gonna endorse you.
And I was like, thank you, that's awesome. And I turned
(00:46):
around. I googled lock camera.What's lock Cabin? I do a lock
camera? Republicans that are and andAnd I say this unfortunately because a lot
of people think Republicans LGBT, thatthat most are or not most, but
they think Republicans are opposed to andthey don't know that there's actually a group
like your So explain to people whatis the log Cabin Republicans. Sure,
(01:07):
Lock Cabin Republicans refers to Abraham Lincoln, who was our first Republican president and
rumored to be possibly in the LGBTcommunity. So we take the title from
Ape Lincoln Lock Cabin Republicans, andwe are the conservative movement of lesbian,
gay, by sexual, transgender Republicansaround the country. We operate by chapters,
(01:30):
so we have regional chapters like thePhiladelphia chapter associated with we have New
York City, Florida, Texas,California, a lot of big chapters around
the country, but we all cometogether as a national organization to support federal
candidates, and then on a localbasis, like with you, we seek
out local candidates state candidates to supportand get the message out that it's okay
(01:55):
to be a conservative LGBTQ community memberand had those viewpoints so often when we
started, we felt like we wereshut out, that it was going so
woke, we did not have avoice. So our organization has grown significantly
in the last ten years as theother side has gotten less inclusionary and more
(02:16):
exclusionary. So yeah, so peopleare surprised when I tell them that I'm
like there are gay Republicans and they'relike, no, no, they're not.
I go to your events a lot, and I'll be honest with you,
most of your members, I'm amonter, are way more conservative than
I am. I mean, andthey look at me as I'm not going
(02:37):
to say Ryano, but they lookat me because I used to be a
Democrat. You used to be aDemocrat. In many ways, we're very
similar. I mean, we kindof came over at the same time.
I think, you know, Idon't want to speak for you, but
you know, when I would tellpeople I support the LGBT community, they'd
be like, well, that you'rea Democrat. Or actually, I should
say I thought I was a Democratbecause I supported the LGBT community. You
(03:00):
know. It was like, Isupport unions, you know, I'm this
that. I'm like, I wasalways a free market capitalist. But I
was like, oh, well,you know I support LGBT, the LGBT
community, I am. That meansI'm clearly a Democrat. You probably felt
the same way, like I ama gay man, I'm a Democrat.
There exactly the message. Now,when I was in college, I was
(03:21):
Villanova University College Republican president. Iloved Ronald Reagan. But after that,
when the Clintons came around, alot of us in the gay community,
as we came out, identified withBill and Hillary Clinton, so we gravitated
towards the community. It was assumedyou would be Democrat because Bill and Hillary
were Democrats. So back in thatera, yeah, most of us,
a lot of us were Democrats,and some of our strongest members now are
(03:44):
former Democrats like myself who just wantto have a voice and a place at
the table and a big tent toshare messages and have a conversation. Many
of us are so active now becausewe felt shut out in our own community,
in the neighborhood, in the WilliamWaye Center, wherever felt like you
could not even speak about other viewpointsthan the ones being put out by the
(04:06):
far left. And you imagine theWilliam Waye Center. I believe I remember
a story where you were supposed tospeak there four years ago at this point
and what happened. So four yearsago, the William Waye Center invited me
to come speak. They knew aboutour chapter, the log Cabin. They
wanted the viewpoint shared because several peoplein the William Waye Center had asked for
(04:28):
the viewpoint to be shared, andI was working with their communications director and
the president, Chris Bartlett, knewabout the invitation and it was extended right
as I was walking in that dayto do the show, much like the
show right now, on this studio, I had a transgender person stopped me
at the front door and say,your kind is not welcome here. Your
(04:48):
kind can never cross the door,And I said what? And then everything
really blew up, and the WilliamWaite Center board sided with these loud voices
within the William White Center clientele.They didn't even want a conservative message or
a conservative discussion to happen within thedoors. Even though they were saying how
(05:09):
inclusionary they were correct, they weredoing the opposite their inclusionary in their own
minds, but really from a conservativestandpoint and a theological standpoint, politically right,
they were anything exactly their inclusionary.When they want money, when they
want government taxpayer funds and they wantgrants, they're open to all, But
in reality they're not. So Iwas shut out of the building and as
(05:29):
a result, one of the bigdonors stopped giving to the center. He
wrote a very strong letter to ChrisBartlett that I'm copied on, and other
donors also stopped giving, so theylost support, they lost donors, they
lost people like me that gave inthe past, because who's going to go
somewhere where you're told you can't evencross the door. That's his exclusionaries.
It gets and just recently and whenI read the article in the paper about
(05:51):
how on a federal level that fundswere cut to I think it was only
like three or four organizations around thecountry, And as soon as I read
it, I'm like, this isridiculous. I'm like, why are they
doing this? They're obviously talking tothe LGBT community. I was embarrassed as
a Republican. But then I readone of the organizations was was Willying Way,
and I was like, I wonderif it's not that their funds are
(06:15):
being cut because they're ALGBT, butit's because they're exclusionary. And I think
you texted me like an hour afterI read the article, and I don't
know for certain, but I'm assumingthat's that's probably why, because I didn't
do anything specifically, but my storyis out there. Other stories are out
there where they are exclusionary, andif if they want the taxpayer money from
(06:35):
one hundred percent of the citizens,why would you exclude at least fifty percent?
And willing Way does a lot ofgreat things. I don't want to
sit here and like bash the WillyingWaite Center because I know, I know
they do do a lot of things. But I think everyone needs to understand
inclusionary means, you know, differentvoices, even you know we're not.
I was telling, you know,I've lost friends when I became a Republican,
and I was like, I'm stillthe same exact person I always was.
(06:57):
I was, you know, Iwas. I was a Dino when
I was a Democrat Democrat name onlynow people call me a Rhyano. I
said, I didn't move my ideology. I just felt like the party did
shift. Uh. You know,I don't think it's the Party of Kennedy
anymore. I know that. Idon't even know, although I feel like
it's going back again. I said, I don't even know if it's the
Party of Clinton. I mean,I voted for Bill Clinton. And you
(07:17):
know when he said, you know, welfare is a second chance, it's
not a way of life, Imean, that's that's that's still how I
feel I'm one percent have that mindset. I'm not sure the progressive wing anyway
of the Democrat Party they do notfeel that way. They want guaranteed jobs,
they want they want rank control,they want, you know, everything
(07:40):
that has failed for centuries. Thatis what they want, even though they've
always failed, because they know theyknow how to do it. Now.
I love when they talk about rankcontrol and I'm like, well, I
have to do is say New Yorklikes New York. Is New York affordable?
It's not affordable because those those wholive in rent control apartments, Yeah,
that they're still affordable. And Iunderstand that the desire to have affordable
(08:01):
housing, but not through run controlbecause everywhere else gets expensive. Correct.
And we're against quotas at Lockhabin.We want to see at the table because
we're good, we're smart, we'reaccomplished, we have good insight. We
don't want to see at the tablebecause we're one tenth or one fifteenth of
their quota. Yeah, so that'sthe fallacy, and that's why we're so
strong at Lockhabin and pushing that message. You see it in the cabinet right
(08:24):
now, in President Bien's cabinet.You have someone in their heading transportation who
fit his bill, his quota doesmaybe does not have the experience to run
airlines and shipping and train traffic.And now we've had all these problems last
two and half years, and look, people to check his brilliant he's much
more intelligent than I am. Butyou don't you don't do you have no
experience? I mean it would belike you know, putting any of you
(08:48):
could put Einstein in charge of transportation. If he doesn't know what he's doing
and doesn't have the experience, thenhe's not Look, he would Look,
they got ninety five rebuilt, andI'm sure people would have check was was
part of that? Obviously, JoshShapiro was part of it. Governor Shapiro
was and I will give credit wherecredit is due. They got it done.
But no, there's a lot thathe just doesn't have. There were
What's frustrated is there probably were anumber of things that he could have done
(09:11):
in the cabinet and he would havebeen qualified for, but not not transportation.
What do your transportation? I waslike, what is he thinking?
People to chicken is brewing it?But he doesn't have the experience that it
takes to run the exactly and nowthe whole country pays the price exactly.
So um the primary this year inthe city Philadelphia. I don't know about
(09:33):
you, but I was pleasantly surprisedon how a lot of those races turned
out. The Progressives did not doas well, honestly, as well as
I thought they were going to do. I thought it was going to be
a progressive wave and a lot ofpeople were nervous, but it didn't happen.
Um. And I'll use you know, Helen him is an example.
(09:56):
I don't Hellen's a friend, Isaid. I don't pick my I don't
pick my friend based on their politicalideologies. Are also, I would have
no friends in the city of Philadelphiabecause there are not many Republicans in the
city of Philadephia. Although think they'rea lot more conservatives than they're all registered.
But you know, I thought Hollendwas a showing. If you asked
me in January, I said,Hollend's gonna win. I said, holes
(10:18):
Hollen's base is going to get there. They're gonna get out the vote.
The more people running for mayor,the better it is for Hellen. And
obviously I thought she was a showingbut it didn't. It didn't have an
old what i'll call an old schoolDemocrat in the primary. You know,
we're still a general. I remindpeople that all the time, Dave David
Owen Sharp Parker will be running forthe general. But Sharob Parker won won
the primary. I was not expectedat it. Where were you thinking?
(10:41):
We weren't either. I was thinkingit was going to be a progressive But
again, the progressives are tied tothe crime increase in the city and average
average Philadelphians don't feel safe in thecity. Exactly. We in our community.
We frequent the gighborhood in Center City, and many, many, many
people now will cut or evening shortat ten o'clock where we used to stay
out to midnight or two am.You don't want to be walking in Center
(11:05):
City. What time would you cutit to come on now? Midnight?
What did you ever cut it atmidnight? Every two or three? Oh?
Yeah, we were up to two, three or four sometimes some of
the day after hours clubs. Butcrime is really I would say the number
one kitchen table issue in the city, and I believe that's what drove the
results were the primary sure. Iwas at City Hall last night and there
(11:28):
were just a number of people.Look, I'm empathetic to people who are
homeless, and you know, Iwant everyone to help. But there were
it. There were scores of homelesspeople around City Hall, around MSB.
And I was actually going to getChristy picking her up near City Hall.
And I'll be honest, five yearsago, I would have told her to
walk home. It was only itwas only nine o'clock at night. It
(11:50):
wasn't like it was two thirty inthe morning. But I said, I
was coming back from ann event.I'm like, I will pick you up,
do not walk home. I didn'teven want her getting an uber because
if she hadn't walk outside and wait, I was nervous for and look,
I blame it on on District JournelKraser. I'll say the name. I
mean, if you look at thevariable between you know, before he took
(12:11):
office till now, then just lookat the murder rate. Look look at
data. Something you cannot refute.The murder rate is almost twice as much
as it was right the year before. One of the safest years, by
the way, was the year beforehe took office. And look the pandemic
absolutely had an effect on things,and I'm not going to blame and when
murders did spike, yeah, thepandemic has something to do with that.
But the bottom line is when youhave progressive policies, when you don't prosecute
(12:35):
crime at every single level, i'dcall trickle of criminality. When you know,
when you just tell people that cango into a drug store and take
out four hundred and ninety nine dollarsworth of the product and we're not going
to do anything too, then itleads to larger crimes. Exactly. It's
a huge quality of life issue,especially again for those of us who frequent
Center City and you go to thedrug store or the convenience store, everything's
(12:58):
locked up. You have to askfor it to be given. You're always
wondering who else is in the storesor someone going to rob it while you're
there is another concern. And thenif you like we you know, I
like the high end stores once ina while to walk through, you're wondering
if there's going to be a heistthere or an action. So it just
leads to not loving the things aboutthe city that we all used to love
(13:20):
and wanting to get out. Idon't have a drug store within two blocks
on my house. The reason Ilive in this I grew up in Vanova.
I was a suburban night like youwent, you went to O'Hara,
so Springfield. I went to theprep. I grew up in Vanova.
I wanted to be able to walkto everywhere. I always said, I
want to be able to walk,wake up in the morning, get a
newspaper, and be able to walkto a restaurant. I don't buy,
you know, walk to get anewspaper anymore, but that's what I wanted.
(13:41):
I want to be able to walkto everything. Now it's not super
bar. The closest drug store though, is it's like seven blocks, which
is not a lot, it's youknow, three quarters of a mile basically.
But when you live in the cityfor convenience and and we used to
have basically by the way, twoor three within a read a four block
radius, they're all they're all closingnow, so there is a direct effect
(14:05):
that you can look at wawas areleaving. Wawas are leaving like crazy.
The Wawa at two thousand Market Streetwas packed all the time. Yeah,
during the day. At night itwas opened. It was open twenty four
hours a day, or at leastwait late in tonight if you if you
needed something at two in the morningand you would go there and it would
be packed. They didn't leave becauseof a lack of business. They left
(14:28):
because people would walk in literally justgrabbed a whole bunch of as long as
it was four hundred ninety nine dollarsninety nine cents. Yeah, walk out.
They told him that had said itpublicly. It was that. I
even said when he said it publicly, I'm like, if you're gonna have
if you're gonna practice it, fine, but don't tell people that, right.
And so now all the Wawas areclosing. I heard there's one,
(14:50):
uh and in Logan Square, butyou know north of the Parkway, I
heard that one's closing. They're allthey're all leaving. Yeah, And it's
that. I mean, it's notlike Wawa is the you know, be
all end all. But the morebusinesses leave, the worst office is.
Yeah. And I know what peoplesay, oh is the pandemic and people
(15:11):
aren't back to work, and thatis absolutely part of it. But the
most part it's quality living. It'sit's crime, and that's why these stories
are leaving in the city. Butpart of that is companies may not want
to bring people back in Center Cityif the if their workforce. That's a
great point. Yeah, so that'sthe pushback. A lot of workers in
Center City are saying, I don'twant to go back five days a week.
It's not safe. Yeah. Christyhas a friend who was who was
(15:33):
mugged, and she's like, I'mnot going back to the office. Yeah
she was. It was kind oftowards the end of the pandemic when when
businesses started to say, Okay,come in once a week, twice a
week. She was mugged and I'mnot going back into the city. You
know, that's if you're scared.And it goes on to public transportation as
well. I mean public transportations aproblem. Now. Part of that is
(15:54):
because they don't have enough officers,because you know, we're going to defund
the police, We're going to doall these things at the Progressive movement wanted.
So now I mean the Philadelphia policeforce, we're down thirteen hundred officers.
We don't have enough police. Youknow, Philadelphia police, let alone
set the police because why would anybodywant to go into that profession when you
(16:15):
were told on a daily basis,you're you're, you're a bad person,
You're not doing a good job,right, I mean so, and and
it's only going to get worse.I tell people that there are a lot
of officers who are going to whoare set too, were trotting to retire.
You can tell that from the dropprogram there. We're going to lose
a lot more officers than are comingin. So that thirteen hundred numbers is
only going to keep increasing, andcrime is only going to get unfortunately,
(16:37):
only going to get worse until wecan get until we can recruit and get
that force back up, to backup the full force. Right, I
mean you left the city, you'reyou're, you're no longer And did you
sell I know you had both housesfor a little while. Yeah, Yeah,
Northern Liberties is gone and now it'sSwarthmore. Yeah. Did the crime
play a role and in your decision? Yeah. I'm a huge walker.
(17:02):
I love to walk miles a dayif I can, and I didn't feel
safe walking back from Center City atnight. I had a couple of experiences
where I was this close to somethingand I had an angel on my shoulder
and got through it. But it'sit's just the experience many of our community
you're experiencing. It's just not safe, and you don't you don't feel And
I go back to that example.Last night when I was I parked,
(17:23):
I walked to where Christie was atCity Hall and I was like, this
is I don't feel safe here,Like I never felt unsafe in Center City
and the almost twenty years I've livedhere, day or night, no matter
what, matter what time of day, sometimes in the middle of night for
work I'm going to construction sites atthree in the morning. Never once was
(17:44):
I like, wow, this isthis does not feel safe. And Love
Parks the same way I walked throughLove Park, I've walked through you know
obviously City Hall in front of theMSB building. It is not safe.
It's not as safe as it used. It's not the way I tell people
suburbs. I said, it's notthe wild West like people you know,
you watch the news, you thinkyou're duck in, you know, under
(18:04):
gunfire, although in some areas peopleare. I mean, that's that's to
me. It feels like Gotham City, like you never know when there's someone
behind you. You're just never sure, no, And and that's my head
has always been on a swibbow sinceI was, you know, growing up.
I went to Saint Jose Prep atthe seventeenth in Girard when that was
a you know, it was itwas it was a tough area and uh
(18:25):
and I would come home, youknow later fight football, so i'd be
out, you know, it wouldbe dark sometimes when I was leaving the
prep. But my head's always beenon a swibbo just in case. But
I will tell you seventeenth in Girardin nineteen eighty nine is nothing compared to
broad in market right now. Andthat's that says a lot. I mean,
we are taught at the prep.You never you know, if you
(18:45):
come back late at night, youknow it was the two bust, you
would take it like, never takeit by yourself, like always make sure
there was someone with you. Now, that's that's the way we are in
centers. Say, a lot ofour club takes offense with the ATVs that
just seemed to be riding with impunity, Like who thinks this is fine to
have these gangs of mad Max gangsand are roaming the streets and sidewalks and
(19:07):
and and putting everyone's safety and securityin jeopardy. And look, they know
and understand that there there's no culpability, and it's a tough That is probably
one of the tougher situations. Idon't necessarily you know the answer now,
but but when you have this cultureof you're not going to get in trouble
if you do something illegal, Imean, it is tough. The police
don't necessarily want to chase because ifthey do chase, then and you've seen
(19:30):
it even even in some circumstances,they go up on the sidewalks all of
a sudden, so everyone is putin danger. And some of these people
on the bikes are just kids.You know, you have the adults leading
them, and then you know,it's it's a complete disgrace. You see
these like twenty thirty forty year oldmen and then like right behind them are
like ten, ten eleven year oldkids. Right. So that's so that's
a challenge. But it goes backto culpability. It's it's it's lawlessness.
(19:53):
They think they can do whatever theywant. And and and that's a great
point. That's a quality of lifeissue that I hear a lot in Center
City and people are like, well, just build them an area where they
can ride their their their ATVs ordirt bikes. And I tell them all
number one two things, how arethey going to get to this location?
(20:15):
You know? Not like we havetrailers and in the city to put the
bikes on, so they're not ableto get there. Number One, it
would take a huge area in thecity of Philadelphia. It's completely untunattainable.
Like, what are you gonna youknow, uh, Belmont Plateau, Baby,
that's big enough. But then whatare you gonna do for all those
people use Belmont Plateau for what it'scurrently supposed to use for for outdoor baseball
(20:38):
across country and things like that.And then number two, it is the
thrill of doing something illegal. Youcould we could give we could give people
who ride these little ILLOI TVs anddirt bikes an area and they would still
go out on the street. Ohdefinitely, yeah, because it's it's that's
it's it is part of the thrill. They they they they love it.
(21:00):
Um they because and this is whyI tell people if if if they're not
in it because they want to breakthe law for the thrill, why did
they go through red lights? Likethey could ride and ride to the next
light stop. They don't stop andgo again. And I said that that's
part of the thrill. So itwill do absolutely nothing. I'll be honest
with I also don't like to rewardbad behavior. It's like, okay,
(21:22):
so we're so they're doing something illegal, So instead of prosecuting them for doing
something illegal, we're going to rewardthem with the location where they can do
it legally. I mean, it'sit's insane sometimes when you when you hear
some of the answers that people get, well, in order to solve this
problem, just create create an areawhere they can write them and then overdo
it. So so what else doyou have going on? So? I
(21:45):
know you guys have events like whatdoes what does log Cabin do? Like
on a on a regular bit,I know you have like happy hours.
We have socials and meetings for peopleto come and discuss the topics which they
don't feel comfortable or when they tryto talk about it at dinner parties are
in the bars, they get shutdown. Now it's so woke, So
you have to give a safe spacefor people to talk. And that's what
(22:07):
we do. And we also tryto find candidates that are aligned with with
our goals and give them a venueto speak and to talk to our members.
And that's been going on. Sowe're really looking forward to next year
to the Senate races and presidential andallow of the races that is going to
be a huge Twenty twenty four isgoing to be huge. You have the
presidential and and and the Senate racethat we and I say we, the
(22:32):
Republicans, will put someone up againstBob Casey, um, and Bob Casey
to me, I voted for BobKy. I remember when I voted for
Bob Casey because he was the hewas the moderate. Yeah, he was
the pro life moderate. Um,and he was he was his father,
you know, I know I votedfor I voted for Bob Casey because I
thought Bob Casey was his father.Well, he's been nothing like his father.
(22:55):
And I'm interested to see who whowas going to run against him.
I assume while we also I assumeit's Dave McCormick, But I don't know
if you're hearing the we've already reachedout to tav mcormick's campaign to say we're
we're here for you. Yeah.So yeah, we're hoping it's Dave McCormick.
I I think Dave came very closeto uh to beating doctor Oz in
the primary. And this is nothingagainst doctor Ozz. I think he ran
(23:18):
a good campaign. He just wasn'tborn here, really wasn't from here.
You know, Dave McCormick did livein Connecticut for a little bit, but
he was born and raised here andand it's back. I think I'll be
honest with you, and again,this is nothing disparaging to doctor Oz.
I think I think Dave McCormick wouldhave won that last year against Spedderman.
And I think he can beat BobCasey. It's gonna be tough because I
(23:40):
think a lot of people still lookat Bob Caseys this monitor, and I'm
like, Bob Casey's not a monitor. You gotta look at how he votes.
And I'll be honest with you,I think he just votes wherever people
tell him to vote, right,I mean, not to be disparaged.
He hasn't been a leader in thestate. He hasn't been a leader.
Now, yeah, exactly that.That's the perfect way to explain. He
hasn't been a leader. He justkind of he follows and does whatever he
thinks the party wants him to do, and that's not what I want in
(24:03):
the Senator. So I think Ithink Dave McCormick can beat him, right.
I think he has the experience ofthe campaign from last time. And
look, you know, everyone makesmistakes during the campaign. So I think
Dave McCormick is gonna look at thatcampaign and be like, Okay, this
is what I did, this iswhat I should have done differently, and
he's gonna come at it full throttle. I'm surprised he hasn't announced yet,
but my guess is right after November, because that's meaning there are a lot
(24:30):
a lot of important elections come inthis this November. I mean I'm obviously
I'm one of them. I'm runningthrough the City council a large spot as
a Republican. So I think you'regoing to see Dave raid after he's raising
money obviously, and he also hassome money. Um. I think right
after November you're gonna see him,see see him announced. Yeah, we're
excited for Dave. No. Ithink I think he's uh. I think
(24:52):
he's gonna be a great candidate.I think he will be great in the
Senate because I think he's one ofthose people. It's that's facing. He's
not going in it. He's notgoing into the Senate for for the money.
So he has he has much moremoney than both you and I have
combined, and maybe ten times that. So and I think that's a good
way, you know, I'd likethat when politicians don't have to do it
for the money, because they're onlygoing to do it for what they believed,
(25:15):
exactly, so exactly, So we'rewe're coming to an end. It
felt like it took about five minutes, because yeah, we only do thirty
minutes now. Last time we camein for an hour. So I want
to thank you for coming in.We're gonna have you come in again,
Drew. Well, have you maybeeven come in before the election or if
not, we'll come in, uhright after for a victory's gnostications. Yeah,
exactly. I we'll come in forthe victory celebration after I win on
(25:38):
November seven. So thank you again. Thank you you've been watching USULA Media
and The Republican Zone. I amyour host. Have a great day.
The Republican Zone is brought to youby Drew Murray.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com