September 2, 2025 • 39 mins
This week on The Rewrite, we’re talking money, mindset, and the emotional side of financial planning with Tatiana Sunik—Certified Financial Planner®, divorce consultant, and founder of Hera Financial.
Tatiana knows that money isn’t just about numbers—it’s about human psychology. After navigating her own divorce and major life transitions, she’s on a mission to help others move from financial confusion to empowered, values-aligned decisions.
We talk about:
- How to make smart financial moves in the middle of emotional chaos
- The biggest mistakes people make during divorce (and how to avoid them)
- Why your mindset matters more than your math
- What real financial empowerment looks like after separation
If you’re going through a transition—or ready to take back control—this one is a must-listen.
Follow Tatiana: @tatianasunik www.herafinancial.com
Tatiana knows that money isn’t just about numbers—it’s about human psychology. After navigating her own divorce and major life transitions, she’s on a mission to help others move from financial confusion to empowered, values-aligned decisions.
We talk about:
- How to make smart financial moves in the middle of emotional chaos
- The biggest mistakes people make during divorce (and how to avoid them)
- Why your mindset matters more than your math
- What real financial empowerment looks like after separation
If you’re going through a transition—or ready to take back control—this one is a must-listen.
Follow Tatiana: @tatianasunik www.herafinancial.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to The Rewrite, a podcast about divorce, choice and
new beginnings. I'm your host Wendy Sloan, former TV producer,
mom of two and one sweet golden retriever. This is
a space for real talk about the moments that break us,
the choices that define us, and the power we have
to begin again. You'll hear personal stories, heartfelt insights, and
(00:22):
honest conversations about healing relationships and reclaiming your life one
choice at a time. I'll be joined by experts in divorce, finance,
mental health, wellness and more and everything you need to
support your next chapter. The most powerful chapters might be
the ones you write next. Let's begin your rewrite together.
This episode is brought to in part by the Needle
(00:44):
Kuda Law Firm guidance that moves lives forward.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Welcome to another episode of The Rewrite.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I'm your host Wendy Sloan, my guest today, Financial Planner, Advisor,
Certified Financial, Certified Divorce Financial Analysts and founder of Here Financial.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Drawn from her own experience.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
With a complex and emotionally challenging divorce, she has made
it her mission to empower others through clarity, strategic strategy,
Strategy and compassion are from a pathway forward for those
facing one of life's most different, difficult transitions. Welcome to
my show, Tatiana Sunk.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Hello, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I'm so happy to have you here and just reading
about you. Shaped by your own experience as a mom
and a ten year single mom supporting your family, you
now help other women in financial challenges and opportunities for
growth and independence.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
What a rewrite before we even begin.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I'm sure you've rewritten your story several times over now,
but I can only imagine.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I just want to start with your personal story.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And I know you said your divorce was one of
the most complex, complex divorces ever.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
I feel like it. I've learned divorce through very for
numerous dimensions. You know, financial the custody, and financial is
always intertwined with custody, and often people think, oh, I
just want my kids to be happy, while kids cost
the money. So you know, doing this right the first
time around is kind of what I say. And also
(02:19):
just to understand the space. Right when I was going
through divorced ten years ago, there were barely any professionals
in the divorce space, and I felt like the information
was scarce and I really had to kind of go
around and educate myself because I'm one of these people
that doesn't make decisions without really the information. And now
(02:40):
I feel like pandulum shifted another direction and there's too
much information. There's so much noise or not allowed of wisdom.
And I hear of often when I host my monthly
coffee of CDAKA it's a virtual you know space that
we talk about it that individuals just overwhelm with the information,
(03:01):
amount of professionals out there.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Who to choose? Should I have a professional? Do I
need that type of help?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
So I'm really doing financial side, but I feel like
I'm kind of sorting out a lot of divorce because
I have pretty much pretty comprehensive experience on that side.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I like what you said is is absolutely true. I
got divorced in two thousand and eight. You got divorced
ten years ago. Back then, both times, there was no podcasts,
there was not a lot of information.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
You didn't know what to do, And you're right.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Now there's a lot of noise, there's so much and
how do you filter that out?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Correct?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
And I think I think a lot of it has
to do with really finding a one trusted professional, and
I do think usually that individual surrounds themselves with that
professionals as well. There are becoming more of sort of
organized channels online for that. For example, I did recently
(04:00):
warrant this the doorce Support Network, and there are ideas
a startup that's.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Being you know, ran by the entrepreneur to.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Really vet the professionals and on every state level to
really make sure that wever we match and you know,
component or AI and make sure that's the person that
really needs that type of help and that person will
need that type of help, but it's based on their
situation also, you know, not just vetting them because you
like them or the pain, but really truly understand the space,
(04:32):
know the.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Space, and you know, believe it or not.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
It is a pretty small world, even though it's very
it's very cliquey in terms of like different states. Everyone
knows everyone and it's not that hard to vent individuals
and if you really kind of hit the right nail,
you will know a lot about the space and then
things like that, you know, so I really feel that
we'll keep people more accountable and doing the right thing
(04:53):
by the client because essentially your reputation precedes yourself. And
now that we have a lot of that trees and
were forming the forest, someone has to know a little
bit of a layover land or to plant their own tree,
so you know, and that's.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Kind of how I see it.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, I want to back up a little bit about
ten years ago. When you first got divorced. There wasn't
a lot of places to turn to. There wasn't a
lot of things to listen to. So what did you do?
Speaker 4 (05:22):
I ask people who went through divorce a lot of
their questions, and how do you work for you? I
mean attorneys I felt that were great, but they never
gave me a straight answer. And I almost feel like,
you know, they can't because it's really, you know, liability
in this way and they really can't predict. And the
way attorneys are wired, they're not wired like a client.
(05:43):
A lot of times it's very rare you meet someone
who can get to the level of your complexity and
really understand what you're experiencing, and nor they should, right
they that basically what I come to understand, divorce can
not be done.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
But I'm professional an attorney. You can't make that person.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
You're sort of coach STUDI a therapist, you can't make
that person your financial person, and you can't make that
person the educator on the space. So I ask a
lot of people, but you know what, everyone had their
different stories, and you honestly get a little bit lost
in the information and overwhelmed and actually even more scared,
and you go backwards because every individual has a different
(06:21):
story and your story could go so many different ways.
I actually felt it was controproductive, and then I stopped
because it was stressing me out.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
So I did my own research sort of. I had
to just learn and feel to be honest.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
But the smartest thing I did through my divorce was
my financial person, the smartest, single smartest thing I did
which kept me safe until this day. So founding hair
of financial feels like a symbolic today.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Why did you choose that name? And tell us what
it represents to you and tell us about it?
Speaker 4 (06:57):
So I when I start working this field, majority of
the individuals that I ended up really needing help were women.
That said, a lot of men come to me too,
but women are the ones that need the financial literacy.
So I wanted to make that name a little bit
more feminine and just rise above the noise of people
(07:17):
so harara Is in the christ mythology is a goddess,
and hara Is actually represents the piece of the family,
of the children. It doesn't represent women generally, but it's
just the feminine symbol. That said, and history of that mythology,
Parah was torturedd by Zeus, right, so a lot of
that interpretation of a divorce. You know, not every divorce contentious,
(07:42):
but the Zeus was sort of this like a god
that we loved, you know, the people loved, yet he
had his own way with individuals. So it's a multi
dimensional way. But mostly I wanted to just make it
a little bit above just the human concept of a
noise and make it more like a statue, like so
you know, legal system has a statue of scale.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I feel like there is above legal system.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
There's this accountability of a higher power, and that's maybe
the hair it comes in, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
But it just also a good name too.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
It makes so much sense and it's such a great name.
And I had to ask you about that absolutely. Okay,
a little bit more about you. Wall Street veteran.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yes, been in space for twenty two years.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, amazing, founding member of the National Association of Divorce Professionals.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
It really demonstrates your commitment.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, that was the very beginning of everything.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
You know, we were just kind of starting on an
ADP as the abbreviation really you know, became much more
national at this point. But I was one of these
pre code you know, individuals that are sort of jumped
on that first. And what was it like when you
were going through the divorce and raising your kids.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
I think for me, I had it the easiers because
I had because it could be hard, and also not
I think children are grounding. It actually makes you more functional.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
You have that accountability to and I had to sort
of put the big girl pants on very early on
and do the right thing. And I could have been
a hot mess and hide under the blank kids and cry,
but I chose not to because I felt that my
kids did not ask for this process.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I brought them into this world, and I wanted to
do the right thing. You know.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
It is sort of you can control what you can, right,
There's two parties to that, so but at least I
was trying to do my part in the right way
and maybe that will be a fifty percent less contribution.
And I really try not to fall into this codependency,
which really is created a lot in divorce than I
see it all the time, because it's a lot online later.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
That makes sense, well said.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
When people are feeling overwhelmed and paralyzed, especially in financial decisions,
and most of the I think it's trending more now
women are getting more in control of their finances.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Where do they begin?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
So I strongly suggest because before you get married. But
we're not going to cover this today.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I actually I'm We've talked about this in the podcast.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Okay, I'm going to talk a little bit because I
think that's important. And I a little spoiler.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I am me and my friend who's the Silicon Valley
and that are and actually starting a startup around financial education,
and we want to really tackle the space because I
see a lot of dysfunction and a lot of times
people blame attorneys the judges, and I'm like, you know,
you can't have system to be a fixer here.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
It's a band aid and you.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Can't expect system to onwine your personal choice, right. You
have to take your responsibility for that. So it really
starts early on. And I could see right now, I'll
tell you in my other business So I have two businesses.
Hair Financial is really my divorce and the Forum Financials
where a wealth advisory, and I have a normal families
that I work with. A lot of these families sometimes
(11:03):
you know, bring me the kids and sometimes I even
get very young people.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Coming to me.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
I want to have financial plan like twenty three twenty
four like why, Well, I was growing up with the
divorced parents. I don't want to be what my mom
is at this age, so they really want to tackle
it early on. And the gender lines between earning becomes
a pretty blur, right, the men and women are sort
of pretty equal going forward.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
And I'm also I'm actually wondering why, and I do
think that's the divorce sort of.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
You know that awareness makes people like okay, I don't
want to you know, depend on It's just changing. It's
a normal evolution of our space. So I think women,
you know, when they become in that journey where they
want to become wifes, really should understand what the foundation
and building. It's like a house, right, you want to
make sure it's thirty well done with architect and that's
(11:50):
where you need to educate yourself, right, because any house
built on a very.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Shaky, bad foundation is gonna, you know, be taken by
the sea. I would say, you want to know that grounding,
You want to.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Understand this, and you know, if you want to stop
working have children, it's a beautiful thing to do to
raise your own kids. It's like the luxury of this life, right,
But you have to have understanding, not just putting your
head in the stand. You should be having these trust
conversations with your partner. And I also say pren up
is not for a bad marriage. Actually, pren up is
for the trust in the relationship. So you should be
(12:25):
able to have the trust and clear disclosure and a
full understanding and keep each other accountable because you feel
much more secure. And number one, by the way, a
cause all the divorce is the finances. So when you
have that transparency education, those conversations take three days three
years off as a child, you know, go back to
(12:46):
or keep the string in, but understand, you know, and
communicate with your with with your spouse. I often feel
unfair to certain couples where women never go back to
work and they kind of wanted to and maybe they
didn't want and then the husband becomes the soul breadwinner
and that's also not fair. You know, at some point,
(13:06):
you know you could step up to the plate and
you know, or at least keep one leg in the
game so you can actually come back to that. It's
a lot of burden for a male as well. But
I'm raising two boys and I'm you know, trying to
make sure they're not gonna end up because I see
a lot of that saidnus. Essentially, if you really think
about divorced, you're not getting divorced. You're just gonna have
(13:27):
two families. You're gonna have support, You're still gonna have
those children. You just gonna make your life harder.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
I'm a big component, a big believer in talking about
the finances and about the prenups while you're in the happy,
happy stage, before you get married, before all that stuff.
So so you're right when tatana when you go when
if the woman stays home with the kids for a
few years and the man goes like goes back to work,
and then you get divorced later and all of a
(13:54):
sudden you were like, oh, you weren't working anymore. No,
there has to be a plan in place, and it
has to be they each of us have to be
held accountable, like this is.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Our decision together.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
So this money is the.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Root of all evil sometimes when it comes to marriages
like financial Like you said, it's the number one reason
for divorce.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
We're going to stay married because you want to, not
because you have to write it's because you don't want.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
To be like, honey, I want that pre dressed priest.
Can I have it? No, you can buy your own dress.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
You know, it's almost empowering because you're making this choice consciously,
not because you cannot afford to get divorced.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
And that's another number one cause of why I hold
that thought.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
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Speaker 3 (16:05):
We're back.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You're listening to the rewrite with the founder of hair
Financial Tatiana Sunik back to that thought before the break.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I'm sorry about that, thank you.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah. So my thought is that basically the marriage is
a partnership, so if you choose to stay married, you
should be choosing for the right reasons.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
I meet a lot of individuals, and this is actually
very good prelude to what I do, that don't want
to get divorced because they don't want to give up
the lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
That's actually really common, and especially in great divorces. You know,
people might just live together because they really can't afford to.
And that's a different conversation. But how do you know
you are given up lifestyle? Have you gone through the exercise?
Speaker 4 (16:51):
You know what I think differentiates me from a lot
of investment people out there, there's different you know, there's
a different realm of advisors. I been financial plan in
most of my life before that designation was not even
a thing. You know, everybody now gets the cfpis. I
practiced this and I strongly believe the plan starts by
your vision.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
In life, by you and then you know, if you
don't have that vision, that's that's the problem, right that
you first want to do that. And if you did
have that vision, how are you aligning your finances with that.
If there's a big gap.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Then you need to work with professional to really get
to where you want to be and likes to surely
just wake up and have a groundhog d every day
and push it out. So I strongly believe that you
need to become aware of that early on and as
a financial plan I see starts in the middle of
a divorce. Well you have still sort of saying it
not after divorce to pick up the pieces.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And that's what I do with individuals when I'm part
of a divorce.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
I educate women and a lot of people, by the way,
lawyer up because they just don't want to deal with
each other. You know, they just don't to communicate be
getting the lawyers, and a lot of times women ask
for a lot because they are just scared.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
They don't know what's enough, right.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
So I strongly suggest you educate yourself as the first piece,
and then you have a professional to do the math part,
because that's not a tiorney job, especially when it goes
to a higher networth. You know, that needle that I
can move with, Like, let's say one percent is a
lot different than a million versus on ten million. Right,
So that also makes it easier for a spouse, whoever
(18:27):
it is male or female. You know, if the wife
is organizer in the process, she also has a planner
that walks away with whatever it was divorced financially and
she sets her up with a good, you know sort
of plan.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
They're likelihood that she's not going to lose her money
in like ten years. It's higher, right because by statistics,
and most women, even if they get a lot of divorce,
they still don't do well.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
It's actually very sad. They just don't know how to
manage money. They never did, right.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
It's a lot of and most in us and people
just want to invest.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I actually feel like pulled when I hear like someone
works in the divorce space and they just do the investments.
You need to have number one thing that women should
have during divorce financial plan.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
You need to have a clear flashlight where are you
going investments? Is the implementation piece. It's down the line.
It's easily done by anyone. Anyone can do it, you know,
with the way.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
The markets are set up, you know, keeping you accountable
to your plan, having that plan really customed to your life.
That's the skill you know and the ability to actually
keep your client discipline and stand track. That's actually the
hardest part of being a financial advisor.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I feel like you give your clients a lot of clarity,
not just the answers very much.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
So in the beginning it's a lot of work, a lot,
but they usually usually you know, it's a very amazing time.
You build so much trust, you know, and for me
why it's empowering. I'm not just making rich people rich here,
and I've done this for many years. I worked in
the very lead boutique in the New York City and
I love helping family, but here I make a difference.
(20:00):
I actually empower that person through knowledge, and they trust.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Me with their life and the most intimate time and
that dream that they might have, and that's all new
for them. And that's the biggest value of my skill
in that type of setting.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
What are some of the outdated beliefs about money and
divorce that you'd love to ReadWrite. I'm sure there's plenty
of them.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
A lot of people look at the alimony I think
as this like forever sort of thing, and the.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
They surprise, oh, it's only for a few years. Well,
courts are really viewing alimony as a temporary sort of
like a business relationship dissolution, the temporary support to get
anybody on their feet. So I would strongly urge individual's
not to view alimony as even anything because a lot
(20:49):
of times you don't even get it, you know, so
be prepared. And I think the outdated belief is like, oh,
he's gonna pay, how he's gonna pay, or I'm gonna
get happened. The outdated belief creates a huge entitlement gap.
It's very said, and that's what creates a lot of dysfunction.
The entitlment gap is I often get this, you know,
consultations and well, this is our network.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I'm gonna get half of it. But when I start
to ask right questions, I can feel that individual is
going to have a contentious divorce.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
So then I say, well, depends how the tone you say.
You said in the beginning of a divorce, that half
is that's the endpoint, and that the journey where you're at.
You could lose half of that half to get to
that half. Right, that's the entitlement gap. So you want
to make sure you are aware of that that that's
(21:37):
that's half.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
But you still have to.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Enforce it, you know. So that's that's not something Oh
I'm gonna just be divorced and automatically it's half mine.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
That's the reality.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
So you want to make sure you're so mindful. How
do you communicate your spouse? How do you ask divorce?
Do you want to just blur around in the middle
of the fight, I want divorce? Or do you want
a prepared divorce where you discussed and you sort of
did your homework and then you'd be like, all right,
I really feel like we need to do it and
have a conversation.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
But because that honestly ultimately really does change the process,
and it's a lot to undo and sometimes you can't
go back, you know, things are said they can't be undone.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Financial empowerment, what does it look like after divorce and
beyond just budgeting.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Well, I think it's the hardest thing is and I
think woman financial world is made from man by man.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
There is this big thing now sort of statistically, the
shift from females to males, I'm sorry, from male to
female wealth is huge, doe to baby boomer is aging,
and just the generational sort of gap here. So statistically
there is less than twenty percent. Actually can look at it.
Let's see if few website less than twenty three percent
(22:52):
off c if the individuals are women, then you look
at who those women are, I actually are, and they
not even financial ad guys their support stuff, right, then
the financial advisors are even less than that. There's probably
fifteen or seventeen percent of actual financial advisor women. So
now you are becoming this big population who's going to
(23:12):
inherit all the wealth and a lot of divorces women
get half of it, and you being advised essentially by
eighty five percent of who is not you, who doesn't
understand your needs, who doesn't understand when you went through
emotionally different Like my clients talk to me about their menopause.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
It's an expensive journey.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
You can't talk to your male advisor about menopause. And
people say, well, why should I talk to my investment person, Well,
it's not like that. That's a very intimate relationship. I
am essentially your therapist of money. You will talk to
me about these things because I want to be accountable
to it. We want to plan around you know, people
having surrogates for babies, like I mean, they discussed into
(23:49):
me why they can't have.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Kids, Like, it's a very personal relationship.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
It's not investments. That's that's the old school. That's the
brokerage is the dinosaurs of buying stocks. That's the world
had changed a lot. So I strongly encourage people to
understand who they're working with. Right, So, going back to
your questions, Sorry, I kind of got one sideways a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Okay, what's the old school dynamic of them?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
No, no financial empowerment.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
What does it look like after?
Speaker 4 (24:17):
So financial empowerment is really individuals who had never really
touched the finances and like you know, yoga instructors, stay
home mom, really like not all sources to your dad
who maybe knowledgeable not to wait for another relationship, We'll
take care of finances. But really really like, even if
you can't, and it's so different with make an attempt
(24:37):
and learn this yourself.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
And when you take you see this as this Gali,
it's not.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
If you take small steps, you can really decompose that
and small steps at the time create really big journey.
And that's where I feel the empowerment starts, is to
really get my client to understand and observe the information
and not to say all I can't do is that
you can please take the leaps with me and we'll
get you in the right place to me to see
(25:04):
that person change. You can get like first time like
credit card, you know. Sometimes you get those individuals or
their own checkbook.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
That's like it's like they come with these little like
check books with the little like characters on them, and
they're so excited that's their first check book ever. I mean,
believe it or not, it's still still kind of the case. Sometimes.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, take control questions that will change everything. Do you
have a vision for your life? I mean, do you
what do you ask your clients when you're when you're
first working with them, do you ask them what do
you want your life to look like?
Speaker 4 (25:36):
So I usually go through an exercise or my clients.
It's a bit proprietory, but I'll give you a little
bit about it. I make them go through the values
because vision sometimes it's hard to form it. Sometimes it's
actually maybe not the right vision for you. So I
would say I go, I make them go through the
value exercise to circle different values and then when they're
(25:59):
down to really what is important to them, and that's
really what leads to actual vision and it could be
very different to what they thought initially. So I make
them work in their finances, not on their finances, if
that makes sense, and then we actually know the vision
and then we really can clearly see all right, so
that's the vision. Where are we financially from that vision?
(26:22):
And then we make sure we align that And I
think finding the vision is the key because I think
most people gone through life not thinking about it. And
I think that would make you much more motivated, you know,
because you have a clear vision, clear director.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
We always have to aim in life, right you wake
up in the morning. What you see?
Speaker 4 (26:43):
You don't see the entire room. You see the objects
that you focus on. You know, you see your world,
you see your kids. When you have that aim, and
that's how we're wired. You know, essentially you're gonna get there.
It's just like a love. People love someone because they
have an aim at certain things and that person fills
in that and then trigger is that feeling of love.
So I want them to really you know, money to
(27:04):
me is like it's a tangible thing, it's a barter.
It's an exchange of something that you really want, right
to make your life fulfilled.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
It shouldn't be.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
You should not lead with money in the world, right,
It's our world is very inverted. Yet I am financial person,
and money is exchange.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
It's a barter. You know.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
People get upset they spend one hundred dollars and they
go to grocery store. My god, one hundred dollars, but
they get the exchange of huge like groceries, you know,
and that they're going to use and feed themselves. So
you have to think of money that way and really
use it and not be so sort of frozen, you know.
And then the analysis by paralysis by analysis.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
In that stage that means don't be afraid to talk
about the finances earlier, early on in the relationships, early
early before the marriage, before the engagement, before all of that.
Talk about what your future will look like, what your
future will look like if something happens to one of
the one or the other. All these things are so important,
not when you're like, oh, you're fed up and you're
(28:04):
dad and that you're getting divorced and then you know
nothing about your finances.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
It's so important.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
And I would say the most successful women are and
I'm actually going I'm having this sum and I'm gonna
speak in front of one hundred and fifty marketing vps
and there are very you know, high achievers. What I've
learned in my work and seen multi in many dimensions
of families and being a natural area we're exposed to,
you know, tech executives, actors, NHL, NFL, so I've seen
(28:34):
different type of audience right for this, and I would
say the most the correlation between a women being educating,
high chieper and their personal finance is actually negative because
they're still moms, they still have to raise their children.
Half of them are married and thinking I don't want
to be in this marriage and I want divorce and
maybe I'm gonna have to pay them all the morning
and three. You know, they they afraid about the lifestyle
(28:57):
they've created and give it up, right, So what do
you do with that? Like the money, they don't have
any bandwidth on that, right. That's and also they are
working in the leading teams, so they don't see anything
past making the money. And sometimes they sitting in like
vanguard of fidelity accounts where they think they have this
financial consult and they talk once a year and they
(29:18):
charge them one percent for having their kind of some
product there, right, and do you know that you're overpaid
and being underserved for one percent? You can find a
cheaper advisor who can do financial planning. You be a
holistic approach to you, not lead with products, but really
do that fuduciary responsibility. Because I'm a fuduciary, I get
(29:38):
paid by my clients. I'm not paid by the institution
behind me that tells me what's best for my clients.
I know what's best for my clients, and that's the
fuduciary standpoint is so essentially really aligning that and make
sure these women are really taking care of their finances
that are high showers and they're not going to do
it themselves because they need to complicate it. But they
(29:59):
need to find right professional that can help them through
that and not just leave that to chance.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Absolutely, what's one small step that someone could take today
to begin to rewrite their financial story.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Not the budget and I feel that the industry somehow
because that's created by men. The first thing we put
this on woman is this cheap budgeting. The budgeting, it's nothing,
you know. The first step would be is to create
that vision, really do that exercise of your values, create
that vision, And then second is just just know your finances,
(30:35):
create your network, know what you have, and then really
maybe even google what a good financial advisor is, like
what or should I be looking for.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
In the financial advisor? And they really interview a few people.
Don't go ten to five people because you are going
to get so many different things. Narrow your choices, find
the person that you feel well.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Ask you what's your vision because that's that's how you
lead with, not how much do you have?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
What are we working with there? What are all we
gonna invest in?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
No?
Speaker 4 (31:09):
No, no, I want you to know about me, about
my life, what's important to me, why it's important to me.
And when you deeply understand people on that level, then
you can do many things because you're really in charge
of their most intimate part is their finances.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yes, I agree with one hundred percent. Tell us about
your monthly coffee?
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yes, so yep, thank you every third one.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
So I initially thought to do the podcast, and I
think divorce is really more hands on and because it
is so not general for everyone, I wanted to give
people this ability to get their own divorce plan versus
me telling them what their divorce plan should be. So
I have this monthly coffee every day which more interactive.
It's on the third Wednesday of every month. It's virtual.
(31:57):
If you go on my website Para fin h E
r A f I N dot com under my events section,
you can register on that it's it's it's rolling and
it's every month and I invite all kinds of professionals.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
It's sort of a free forum. And I have some
attorneys come, I have great coaches come, and I have
a lot of wheeltors come because I think realty is
so distorted right now on divorce. It's a whole another
podcast we should do.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
It's actually very fast, I agree, and you know, they
basically come when you can ask your questions, you can
have conversations. You know, we I make sure I sort
of moderate and make sure everybody has their own time
to talk.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
And we also you can be anonymous.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
So if a lot of times it's important, you know,
lest to just women that are going through do wors,
don't go on these chats because that all can be
in the court.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
You need to be anonymous and were sometimes during the proces,
especially if it's going to be contentious.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
So you can be anonymous. You don't have to even speak.
You can put your questions in the chat and you'll
get some of the answers. I try to give back
as much as I can. I can't help a lot
of divorces because sometimes there's no money in it that
I really feel in power that I want to make
a difference and women need help, and unfortunately it's going
to be for a little bit from to on.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Why that that sort of gap of knowledge, Well.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
I think we're getting there. What has been what has
been your own rewrite moments financial or otherwise, And I'm
sure there's there's several.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
That could you sure?
Speaker 4 (33:26):
So you know, I've worked in the Welsh and I
don't want to say, wellsh in the wealth management space.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Uh, since college that was my only career.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
I went interned for Meryll and I worked for City
Group and I ended up in Ramy James for a
very high, ultra high networth family office in the city.
And I was the only financial advisor for a pretty
large practice. And I've done so many plans from many
many individual families generally had intact families, And when I
(33:56):
got divorced, I tried to bring that thinking in my
I'm sorry was married in my own marriage, you know,
granted my marriage was a lot shorter than a lot
of individuals out there, and I felt that that person
did not understand concept of life insurance. I was actually
inverted like and not perceived as to what like life
(34:16):
insurance purpose like. It was just somebody who never really
was in the space. I felt like I wasn't speaking
the right language. And when I got divorced, I understood that.
And now there's a word for it. It's called course
of control. I was really living that marriage and that control,
and I am a financial person. How do you that
(34:39):
knowledgeable really get in that type of situation? So I
want to encourage women out there that are guys, you know,
don't want to talk about this, like, how could I
let this happen to me? It can happen to anyone,
And I was an expert and it happened to me
because you want to do the right thing. You felt
that you had trust in that and you were taking advantage.
(35:00):
So it's okay, but it's not okay. Now let that
get you down, and you want to look too a
positive and learn from that, get strong and really move forward.
So that for me was that point where I had
to really kind of like get myself where I was,
put me in pieces and due to me, what I
(35:22):
do to clients to really I'm going to be a
single mother.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
We had litigation.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
There was no alamorie nor child support, and everybody's like, oh,
how can you you?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
You are pressed.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
Sometimes there's only so much you can do, and you know,
people find the ways avoid things, and unfortunately something you
have to make a decision. Do I litigate for years
and years or do I just go on and be
empowered the fact that I don't depend on some ali
MONI that's going to be over in a few months.
But really started building something from my own self. I've
(35:56):
never stopped working, you know. I that was my benefit.
Think sometimes when women didn't work for a while, it's
very very hard, but you know, you have no truths.
You have to believe in yourself. The confidence comes from
really doing things and the knowledge right. And I feel
like the more I got knowledgeable about my own situation,
I thought clearly kind of how I'm gonna position myself,
(36:19):
where I'm going to live, how my kids are going
to be in my care, how I'm going to provide
for them at fifty percent Because the distortion of the
income on the other side was pretty big and that
person would not understand it. So really just kind of
rising yourself above the noise and try to not fall
into codependency and move through and create the life for
your kids and enjoy, you know, plan ahead, take vacations,
(36:42):
you know, pay for these intimate relationship with kids because
kids get older so fast, you know things is, Yeah,
I don't want to save on be able to experience
life on my children, but I'm mindful of, you know,
not to get carried away with that either. So that
was like borderline being a financial professional but also being
like a person and the mom who wants to maybe
(37:05):
you know, enjoy and not be guilted by by.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
My own sort of duty of you know, accountability to myself.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
You've been to where.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Most everybody is that is that is listening to this podcast,
and then you rewrite your story several times over and
you're here to like make a difference in this space
to help people and to you know, when you have
financial clarity, you have so much, you have more than
you know.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Yeah, and you also understand there's no one and come
to save you. It's essentially it's on you, and you
wake up every day and you remind yourself it's going
to be a great day. You're going to make the
best of it, and you are going to take small
steps every day. And yeah, it's hard, but you know
life is hard, so you know there's no way out
of it. Right, we get to the other side and
(37:57):
here we are to help everybody and to make a difference.
T everybody that you're not alone. Yes, and as it is.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Helped, and that there are well, there will be happy
ever after and you will get your you know happy
number two, three, four, whatever it is, you'll you'll get there.
But financial planning, financial clarity is so important. Certified financial planner,
financial advisor, and the founder of Hair Financial specializes in
divorce consulting as a certified divorce financial analyst. Your mission,
(38:26):
it's deeply personal and I admire it so much. For
all you've done. Thank you so much for being here
at Tea Tiana.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Thank you, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Nito Kuda Divorce and Family Laws attorneys have guided Connecticut
and New York families through complex divorce actions, contested child custody,
and alimony disputes for over thirty years. Their Connecticut and
New York attorneys have extensive experience in family matters involving
substance abuse, domestic violence, mental illness, and many other X
factors that can complicate a divorce. Their attorneys a deptly
(38:57):
managed privacy and reputation concerns inherit to public divorce proceedings
and the related exposure for their ultra high net worth clients.
Find your new path forward, define your post divorce family,
and secure an enforcable agreement to protect your future with
Needle Cuda Act. Now put the strength of their team
behind you. Visit them at Needlecuda dot com or call
(39:20):
two O three five five seven nine five zero zero
Welcome to The Rewrite, a podcast about divorce, choice and
new beginnings. I'm your host Wendy Sloan, former TV producer,
mom of two and one sweet golden retriever. This is
a space for real talk about the moments that break us,
the choices that define us, and the power we have
to begin again. You'll hear personal stories, heartfelt insights, and
(00:22):
honest conversations about healing relationships and reclaiming your life one
choice at a time. I'll be joined by experts in divorce, finance,
mental health, wellness and more and everything you need to
support your next chapter. The most powerful chapters might be
the ones you write next. Let's begin your rewrite together.
This episode is brought to in part by the Needle
(00:44):
Kuda Law Firm guidance that moves lives forward.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Welcome to another episode of The Rewrite.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I'm your host Wendy Sloan, my guest today, Financial Planner, Advisor,
Certified Financial, Certified Divorce Financial Analysts and founder of Here Financial.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Drawn from her own experience.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
With a complex and emotionally challenging divorce, she has made
it her mission to empower others through clarity, strategic strategy,
Strategy and compassion are from a pathway forward for those
facing one of life's most different, difficult transitions. Welcome to
my show, Tatiana Sunk.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Hello, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I'm so happy to have you here and just reading
about you. Shaped by your own experience as a mom
and a ten year single mom supporting your family, you
now help other women in financial challenges and opportunities for
growth and independence.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
What a rewrite before we even begin.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I'm sure you've rewritten your story several times over now,
but I can only imagine.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I just want to start with your personal story.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And I know you said your divorce was one of
the most complex, complex divorces ever.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
I feel like it. I've learned divorce through very for
numerous dimensions. You know, financial the custody, and financial is
always intertwined with custody, and often people think, oh, I
just want my kids to be happy, while kids cost
the money. So you know, doing this right the first
time around is kind of what I say. And also
(02:19):
just to understand the space. Right when I was going
through divorced ten years ago, there were barely any professionals
in the divorce space, and I felt like the information
was scarce and I really had to kind of go
around and educate myself because I'm one of these people
that doesn't make decisions without really the information. And now
(02:40):
I feel like pandulum shifted another direction and there's too
much information. There's so much noise or not allowed of wisdom.
And I hear of often when I host my monthly
coffee of CDAKA it's a virtual you know space that
we talk about it that individuals just overwhelm with the information,
(03:01):
amount of professionals out there.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Who to choose? Should I have a professional? Do I
need that type of help?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
So I'm really doing financial side, but I feel like
I'm kind of sorting out a lot of divorce because
I have pretty much pretty comprehensive experience on that side.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I like what you said is is absolutely true. I
got divorced in two thousand and eight. You got divorced
ten years ago. Back then, both times, there was no podcasts,
there was not a lot of information.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
You didn't know what to do, And you're right.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Now there's a lot of noise, there's so much and
how do you filter that out?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Correct?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
And I think I think a lot of it has
to do with really finding a one trusted professional, and
I do think usually that individual surrounds themselves with that
professionals as well. There are becoming more of sort of
organized channels online for that. For example, I did recently
(04:00):
warrant this the doorce Support Network, and there are ideas
a startup that's.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Being you know, ran by the entrepreneur to.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Really vet the professionals and on every state level to
really make sure that wever we match and you know,
component or AI and make sure that's the person that
really needs that type of help and that person will
need that type of help, but it's based on their
situation also, you know, not just vetting them because you
like them or the pain, but really truly understand the space,
(04:32):
know the.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Space, and you know, believe it or not.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
It is a pretty small world, even though it's very
it's very cliquey in terms of like different states. Everyone
knows everyone and it's not that hard to vent individuals
and if you really kind of hit the right nail,
you will know a lot about the space and then
things like that, you know, so I really feel that
we'll keep people more accountable and doing the right thing
(04:53):
by the client because essentially your reputation precedes yourself. And
now that we have a lot of that trees and
were forming the forest, someone has to know a little
bit of a layover land or to plant their own tree,
so you know, and that's.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Kind of how I see it.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, I want to back up a little bit about
ten years ago. When you first got divorced. There wasn't
a lot of places to turn to. There wasn't a
lot of things to listen to. So what did you do?
Speaker 4 (05:22):
I ask people who went through divorce a lot of
their questions, and how do you work for you? I
mean attorneys I felt that were great, but they never
gave me a straight answer. And I almost feel like,
you know, they can't because it's really, you know, liability
in this way and they really can't predict. And the
way attorneys are wired, they're not wired like a client.
(05:43):
A lot of times it's very rare you meet someone
who can get to the level of your complexity and
really understand what you're experiencing, and nor they should, right
they that basically what I come to understand, divorce can
not be done.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
But I'm professional an attorney. You can't make that person.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
You're sort of coach STUDI a therapist, you can't make
that person your financial person, and you can't make that
person the educator on the space. So I ask a
lot of people, but you know what, everyone had their
different stories, and you honestly get a little bit lost
in the information and overwhelmed and actually even more scared,
and you go backwards because every individual has a different
(06:21):
story and your story could go so many different ways.
I actually felt it was controproductive, and then I stopped
because it was stressing me out.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
So I did my own research sort of. I had
to just learn and feel to be honest.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
But the smartest thing I did through my divorce was
my financial person, the smartest, single smartest thing I did
which kept me safe until this day. So founding hair
of financial feels like a symbolic today.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Why did you choose that name? And tell us what
it represents to you and tell us about it?
Speaker 4 (06:57):
So I when I start working this field, majority of
the individuals that I ended up really needing help were women.
That said, a lot of men come to me too,
but women are the ones that need the financial literacy.
So I wanted to make that name a little bit
more feminine and just rise above the noise of people
(07:17):
so harara Is in the christ mythology is a goddess,
and hara Is actually represents the piece of the family,
of the children. It doesn't represent women generally, but it's
just the feminine symbol. That said, and history of that mythology,
Parah was torturedd by Zeus, right, so a lot of
that interpretation of a divorce. You know, not every divorce contentious,
(07:42):
but the Zeus was sort of this like a god
that we loved, you know, the people loved, yet he
had his own way with individuals. So it's a multi
dimensional way. But mostly I wanted to just make it
a little bit above just the human concept of a
noise and make it more like a statue, like so
you know, legal system has a statue of scale.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I feel like there is above legal system.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
There's this accountability of a higher power, and that's maybe
the hair it comes in, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
But it just also a good name too.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
It makes so much sense and it's such a great name.
And I had to ask you about that absolutely. Okay,
a little bit more about you. Wall Street veteran.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yes, been in space for twenty two years.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, amazing, founding member of the National Association of Divorce Professionals.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
It really demonstrates your commitment.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, that was the very beginning of everything.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
You know, we were just kind of starting on an
ADP as the abbreviation really you know, became much more
national at this point. But I was one of these
pre code you know, individuals that are sort of jumped
on that first. And what was it like when you
were going through the divorce and raising your kids.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
I think for me, I had it the easiers because
I had because it could be hard, and also not
I think children are grounding. It actually makes you more functional.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
You have that accountability to and I had to sort
of put the big girl pants on very early on
and do the right thing. And I could have been
a hot mess and hide under the blank kids and cry,
but I chose not to because I felt that my
kids did not ask for this process.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I brought them into this world, and I wanted to
do the right thing. You know.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
It is sort of you can control what you can, right,
There's two parties to that, so but at least I
was trying to do my part in the right way
and maybe that will be a fifty percent less contribution.
And I really try not to fall into this codependency,
which really is created a lot in divorce than I
see it all the time, because it's a lot online later.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
That makes sense, well said.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
When people are feeling overwhelmed and paralyzed, especially in financial decisions,
and most of the I think it's trending more now
women are getting more in control of their finances.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Where do they begin?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
So I strongly suggest because before you get married. But
we're not going to cover this today.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I actually I'm We've talked about this in the podcast.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Okay, I'm going to talk a little bit because I
think that's important. And I a little spoiler.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
I am me and my friend who's the Silicon Valley
and that are and actually starting a startup around financial education,
and we want to really tackle the space because I
see a lot of dysfunction and a lot of times
people blame attorneys the judges, and I'm like, you know,
you can't have system to be a fixer here.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
It's a band aid and you.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Can't expect system to onwine your personal choice, right. You
have to take your responsibility for that. So it really
starts early on. And I could see right now, I'll
tell you in my other business So I have two businesses.
Hair Financial is really my divorce and the Forum Financials
where a wealth advisory, and I have a normal families
that I work with. A lot of these families sometimes
(11:03):
you know, bring me the kids and sometimes I even
get very young people.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Coming to me.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
I want to have financial plan like twenty three twenty
four like why, Well, I was growing up with the
divorced parents. I don't want to be what my mom
is at this age, so they really want to tackle
it early on. And the gender lines between earning becomes
a pretty blur, right, the men and women are sort
of pretty equal going forward.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
And I'm also I'm actually wondering why, and I do
think that's the divorce sort of.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
You know that awareness makes people like okay, I don't
want to you know, depend on It's just changing. It's
a normal evolution of our space. So I think women,
you know, when they become in that journey where they
want to become wifes, really should understand what the foundation
and building. It's like a house, right, you want to
make sure it's thirty well done with architect and that's
(11:50):
where you need to educate yourself, right, because any house
built on a very.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Shaky, bad foundation is gonna, you know, be taken by
the sea. I would say, you want to know that grounding,
You want to.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Understand this, and you know, if you want to stop
working have children, it's a beautiful thing to do to
raise your own kids. It's like the luxury of this life, right,
But you have to have understanding, not just putting your
head in the stand. You should be having these trust
conversations with your partner. And I also say pren up
is not for a bad marriage. Actually, pren up is
for the trust in the relationship. So you should be
(12:25):
able to have the trust and clear disclosure and a
full understanding and keep each other accountable because you feel
much more secure. And number one, by the way, a
cause all the divorce is the finances. So when you
have that transparency education, those conversations take three days three
years off as a child, you know, go back to
(12:46):
or keep the string in, but understand, you know, and
communicate with your with with your spouse. I often feel
unfair to certain couples where women never go back to
work and they kind of wanted to and maybe they
didn't want and then the husband becomes the soul breadwinner
and that's also not fair. You know, at some point,
(13:06):
you know you could step up to the plate and
you know, or at least keep one leg in the
game so you can actually come back to that. It's
a lot of burden for a male as well. But
I'm raising two boys and I'm you know, trying to
make sure they're not gonna end up because I see
a lot of that saidnus. Essentially, if you really think
about divorced, you're not getting divorced. You're just gonna have
(13:27):
two families. You're gonna have support, You're still gonna have
those children. You just gonna make your life harder.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
I'm a big component, a big believer in talking about
the finances and about the prenups while you're in the happy,
happy stage, before you get married, before all that stuff.
So so you're right when tatana when you go when
if the woman stays home with the kids for a
few years and the man goes like goes back to work,
and then you get divorced later and all of a
(13:54):
sudden you were like, oh, you weren't working anymore. No,
there has to be a plan in place, and it
has to be they each of us have to be
held accountable, like this is.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Our decision together.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
So this money is the.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Root of all evil sometimes when it comes to marriages
like financial Like you said, it's the number one reason
for divorce.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
We're going to stay married because you want to, not
because you have to write it's because you don't want.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
To be like, honey, I want that pre dressed priest.
Can I have it? No, you can buy your own dress.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
You know, it's almost empowering because you're making this choice consciously,
not because you cannot afford to get divorced.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
And that's another number one cause of why I hold
that thought.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
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Speaker 3 (16:05):
We're back.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You're listening to the rewrite with the founder of hair
Financial Tatiana Sunik back to that thought before the break.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I'm sorry about that, thank you.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah. So my thought is that basically the marriage is
a partnership, so if you choose to stay married, you
should be choosing for the right reasons.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
I meet a lot of individuals, and this is actually
very good prelude to what I do, that don't want
to get divorced because they don't want to give up
the lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
That's actually really common, and especially in great divorces. You know,
people might just live together because they really can't afford to.
And that's a different conversation. But how do you know
you are given up lifestyle? Have you gone through the exercise?
Speaker 4 (16:51):
You know what I think differentiates me from a lot
of investment people out there, there's different you know, there's
a different realm of advisors. I been financial plan in
most of my life before that designation was not even
a thing. You know, everybody now gets the cfpis. I
practiced this and I strongly believe the plan starts by
your vision.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
In life, by you and then you know, if you
don't have that vision, that's that's the problem, right that
you first want to do that. And if you did
have that vision, how are you aligning your finances with that.
If there's a big gap.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Then you need to work with professional to really get
to where you want to be and likes to surely
just wake up and have a groundhog d every day
and push it out. So I strongly believe that you
need to become aware of that early on and as
a financial plan I see starts in the middle of
a divorce. Well you have still sort of saying it
not after divorce to pick up the pieces.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And that's what I do with individuals when I'm part
of a divorce.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
I educate women and a lot of people, by the way,
lawyer up because they just don't want to deal with
each other. You know, they just don't to communicate be
getting the lawyers, and a lot of times women ask
for a lot because they are just scared.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
They don't know what's enough, right.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
So I strongly suggest you educate yourself as the first piece,
and then you have a professional to do the math part,
because that's not a tiorney job, especially when it goes
to a higher networth. You know, that needle that I
can move with, Like, let's say one percent is a
lot different than a million versus on ten million. Right,
So that also makes it easier for a spouse, whoever
(18:27):
it is male or female. You know, if the wife
is organizer in the process, she also has a planner
that walks away with whatever it was divorced financially and
she sets her up with a good, you know sort
of plan.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
They're likelihood that she's not going to lose her money
in like ten years. It's higher, right because by statistics,
and most women, even if they get a lot of divorce,
they still don't do well.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
It's actually very sad. They just don't know how to
manage money. They never did, right.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
It's a lot of and most in us and people
just want to invest.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I actually feel like pulled when I hear like someone
works in the divorce space and they just do the investments.
You need to have number one thing that women should
have during divorce financial plan.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
You need to have a clear flashlight where are you
going investments? Is the implementation piece. It's down the line.
It's easily done by anyone. Anyone can do it, you know,
with the way.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
The markets are set up, you know, keeping you accountable
to your plan, having that plan really customed to your life.
That's the skill you know and the ability to actually
keep your client discipline and stand track. That's actually the
hardest part of being a financial advisor.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I feel like you give your clients a lot of clarity,
not just the answers very much.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
So in the beginning it's a lot of work, a lot,
but they usually usually you know, it's a very amazing time.
You build so much trust, you know, and for me
why it's empowering. I'm not just making rich people rich here,
and I've done this for many years. I worked in
the very lead boutique in the New York City and
I love helping family, but here I make a difference.
(20:00):
I actually empower that person through knowledge, and they trust.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Me with their life and the most intimate time and
that dream that they might have, and that's all new
for them. And that's the biggest value of my skill
in that type of setting.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
What are some of the outdated beliefs about money and
divorce that you'd love to ReadWrite. I'm sure there's plenty
of them.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
A lot of people look at the alimony I think
as this like forever sort of thing, and the.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
They surprise, oh, it's only for a few years. Well,
courts are really viewing alimony as a temporary sort of
like a business relationship dissolution, the temporary support to get
anybody on their feet. So I would strongly urge individual's
not to view alimony as even anything because a lot
(20:49):
of times you don't even get it, you know, so
be prepared. And I think the outdated belief is like, oh,
he's gonna pay, how he's gonna pay, or I'm gonna
get happened. The outdated belief creates a huge entitlement gap.
It's very said, and that's what creates a lot of dysfunction.
The entitlment gap is I often get this, you know,
consultations and well, this is our network.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I'm gonna get half of it. But when I start
to ask right questions, I can feel that individual is
going to have a contentious divorce.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
So then I say, well, depends how the tone you say.
You said in the beginning of a divorce, that half
is that's the endpoint, and that the journey where you're at.
You could lose half of that half to get to
that half. Right, that's the entitlement gap. So you want
to make sure you are aware of that that that's
(21:37):
that's half.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
But you still have to.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Enforce it, you know. So that's that's not something Oh
I'm gonna just be divorced and automatically it's half mine.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
That's the reality.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
So you want to make sure you're so mindful. How
do you communicate your spouse? How do you ask divorce?
Do you want to just blur around in the middle
of the fight, I want divorce? Or do you want
a prepared divorce where you discussed and you sort of
did your homework and then you'd be like, all right,
I really feel like we need to do it and
have a conversation.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
But because that honestly ultimately really does change the process,
and it's a lot to undo and sometimes you can't
go back, you know, things are said they can't be undone.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Financial empowerment, what does it look like after divorce and
beyond just budgeting.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Well, I think it's the hardest thing is and I
think woman financial world is made from man by man.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
There is this big thing now sort of statistically, the
shift from females to males, I'm sorry, from male to
female wealth is huge, doe to baby boomer is aging,
and just the generational sort of gap here. So statistically
there is less than twenty percent. Actually can look at it.
Let's see if few website less than twenty three percent
(22:52):
off c if the individuals are women, then you look
at who those women are, I actually are, and they
not even financial ad guys their support stuff, right, then
the financial advisors are even less than that. There's probably
fifteen or seventeen percent of actual financial advisor women. So
now you are becoming this big population who's going to
(23:12):
inherit all the wealth and a lot of divorces women
get half of it, and you being advised essentially by
eighty five percent of who is not you, who doesn't
understand your needs, who doesn't understand when you went through
emotionally different Like my clients talk to me about their menopause.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
It's an expensive journey.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
You can't talk to your male advisor about menopause. And
people say, well, why should I talk to my investment person, Well,
it's not like that. That's a very intimate relationship. I
am essentially your therapist of money. You will talk to
me about these things because I want to be accountable
to it. We want to plan around you know, people
having surrogates for babies, like I mean, they discussed into
(23:49):
me why they can't have.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Kids, Like, it's a very personal relationship.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
It's not investments. That's that's the old school. That's the
brokerage is the dinosaurs of buying stocks. That's the world
had changed a lot. So I strongly encourage people to
understand who they're working with. Right, So, going back to
your questions, Sorry, I kind of got one sideways a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Okay, what's the old school dynamic of them?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
No, no financial empowerment.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
What does it look like after?
Speaker 4 (24:17):
So financial empowerment is really individuals who had never really
touched the finances and like you know, yoga instructors, stay
home mom, really like not all sources to your dad
who maybe knowledgeable not to wait for another relationship, We'll
take care of finances. But really really like, even if
you can't, and it's so different with make an attempt
(24:37):
and learn this yourself.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
And when you take you see this as this Gali,
it's not.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
If you take small steps, you can really decompose that
and small steps at the time create really big journey.
And that's where I feel the empowerment starts, is to
really get my client to understand and observe the information
and not to say all I can't do is that
you can please take the leaps with me and we'll
get you in the right place to me to see
(25:04):
that person change. You can get like first time like
credit card, you know. Sometimes you get those individuals or
their own checkbook.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
That's like it's like they come with these little like
check books with the little like characters on them, and
they're so excited that's their first check book ever. I mean,
believe it or not, it's still still kind of the case. Sometimes.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, take control questions that will change everything. Do you
have a vision for your life? I mean, do you
what do you ask your clients when you're when you're
first working with them, do you ask them what do
you want your life to look like?
Speaker 4 (25:36):
So I usually go through an exercise or my clients.
It's a bit proprietory, but I'll give you a little
bit about it. I make them go through the values
because vision sometimes it's hard to form it. Sometimes it's
actually maybe not the right vision for you. So I
would say I go, I make them go through the
value exercise to circle different values and then when they're
(25:59):
down to really what is important to them, and that's
really what leads to actual vision and it could be
very different to what they thought initially. So I make
them work in their finances, not on their finances, if
that makes sense, and then we actually know the vision
and then we really can clearly see all right, so
that's the vision. Where are we financially from that vision?
(26:22):
And then we make sure we align that And I
think finding the vision is the key because I think
most people gone through life not thinking about it. And
I think that would make you much more motivated, you know,
because you have a clear vision, clear director.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
We always have to aim in life, right you wake
up in the morning. What you see?
Speaker 4 (26:43):
You don't see the entire room. You see the objects
that you focus on. You know, you see your world,
you see your kids. When you have that aim, and
that's how we're wired. You know, essentially you're gonna get there.
It's just like a love. People love someone because they
have an aim at certain things and that person fills
in that and then trigger is that feeling of love.
So I want them to really you know, money to
(27:04):
me is like it's a tangible thing, it's a barter.
It's an exchange of something that you really want, right
to make your life fulfilled.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
It shouldn't be.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
You should not lead with money in the world, right,
It's our world is very inverted. Yet I am financial person,
and money is exchange.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
It's a barter. You know.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
People get upset they spend one hundred dollars and they
go to grocery store. My god, one hundred dollars, but
they get the exchange of huge like groceries, you know,
and that they're going to use and feed themselves. So
you have to think of money that way and really
use it and not be so sort of frozen, you know.
And then the analysis by paralysis by analysis.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
In that stage that means don't be afraid to talk
about the finances earlier, early on in the relationships, early
early before the marriage, before the engagement, before all of that.
Talk about what your future will look like, what your
future will look like if something happens to one of
the one or the other. All these things are so important,
not when you're like, oh, you're fed up and you're
(28:04):
dad and that you're getting divorced and then you know
nothing about your finances.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
It's so important.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
And I would say the most successful women are and
I'm actually going I'm having this sum and I'm gonna
speak in front of one hundred and fifty marketing vps
and there are very you know, high achievers. What I've
learned in my work and seen multi in many dimensions
of families and being a natural area we're exposed to,
you know, tech executives, actors, NHL, NFL, so I've seen
(28:34):
different type of audience right for this, and I would
say the most the correlation between a women being educating,
high chieper and their personal finance is actually negative because
they're still moms, they still have to raise their children.
Half of them are married and thinking I don't want
to be in this marriage and I want divorce and
maybe I'm gonna have to pay them all the morning
and three. You know, they they afraid about the lifestyle
(28:57):
they've created and give it up, right, So what do
you do with that? Like the money, they don't have
any bandwidth on that, right. That's and also they are
working in the leading teams, so they don't see anything
past making the money. And sometimes they sitting in like
vanguard of fidelity accounts where they think they have this
financial consult and they talk once a year and they
(29:18):
charge them one percent for having their kind of some
product there, right, and do you know that you're overpaid
and being underserved for one percent? You can find a
cheaper advisor who can do financial planning. You be a
holistic approach to you, not lead with products, but really
do that fuduciary responsibility. Because I'm a fuduciary, I get
(29:38):
paid by my clients. I'm not paid by the institution
behind me that tells me what's best for my clients.
I know what's best for my clients, and that's the
fuduciary standpoint is so essentially really aligning that and make
sure these women are really taking care of their finances
that are high showers and they're not going to do
it themselves because they need to complicate it. But they
(29:59):
need to find right professional that can help them through
that and not just leave that to chance.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Absolutely, what's one small step that someone could take today
to begin to rewrite their financial story.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Not the budget and I feel that the industry somehow
because that's created by men. The first thing we put
this on woman is this cheap budgeting. The budgeting, it's nothing,
you know. The first step would be is to create
that vision, really do that exercise of your values, create
that vision, And then second is just just know your finances,
(30:35):
create your network, know what you have, and then really
maybe even google what a good financial advisor is, like
what or should I be looking for.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
In the financial advisor? And they really interview a few people.
Don't go ten to five people because you are going
to get so many different things. Narrow your choices, find
the person that you feel well.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Ask you what's your vision because that's that's how you
lead with, not how much do you have?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
What are we working with there? What are all we
gonna invest in?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
No?
Speaker 4 (31:09):
No, no, I want you to know about me, about
my life, what's important to me, why it's important to me.
And when you deeply understand people on that level, then
you can do many things because you're really in charge
of their most intimate part is their finances.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yes, I agree with one hundred percent. Tell us about
your monthly coffee?
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yes, so yep, thank you every third one.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
So I initially thought to do the podcast, and I
think divorce is really more hands on and because it
is so not general for everyone, I wanted to give
people this ability to get their own divorce plan versus
me telling them what their divorce plan should be. So
I have this monthly coffee every day which more interactive.
It's on the third Wednesday of every month. It's virtual.
(31:57):
If you go on my website Para fin h E
r A f I N dot com under my events section,
you can register on that it's it's it's rolling and
it's every month and I invite all kinds of professionals.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
It's sort of a free forum. And I have some
attorneys come, I have great coaches come, and I have
a lot of wheeltors come because I think realty is
so distorted right now on divorce. It's a whole another
podcast we should do.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
It's actually very fast, I agree, and you know, they
basically come when you can ask your questions, you can
have conversations. You know, we I make sure I sort
of moderate and make sure everybody has their own time
to talk.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
And we also you can be anonymous.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
So if a lot of times it's important, you know,
lest to just women that are going through do wors,
don't go on these chats because that all can be
in the court.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
You need to be anonymous and were sometimes during the proces,
especially if it's going to be contentious.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
So you can be anonymous. You don't have to even speak.
You can put your questions in the chat and you'll
get some of the answers. I try to give back
as much as I can. I can't help a lot
of divorces because sometimes there's no money in it that
I really feel in power that I want to make
a difference and women need help, and unfortunately it's going
to be for a little bit from to on.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Why that that sort of gap of knowledge, Well.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
I think we're getting there. What has been what has
been your own rewrite moments financial or otherwise, And I'm
sure there's there's several.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
That could you sure?
Speaker 4 (33:26):
So you know, I've worked in the Welsh and I
don't want to say, wellsh in the wealth management space.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Uh, since college that was my only career.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
I went interned for Meryll and I worked for City
Group and I ended up in Ramy James for a
very high, ultra high networth family office in the city.
And I was the only financial advisor for a pretty
large practice. And I've done so many plans from many
many individual families generally had intact families, And when I
(33:56):
got divorced, I tried to bring that thinking in my
I'm sorry was married in my own marriage, you know,
granted my marriage was a lot shorter than a lot
of individuals out there, and I felt that that person
did not understand concept of life insurance. I was actually
inverted like and not perceived as to what like life
(34:16):
insurance purpose like. It was just somebody who never really
was in the space. I felt like I wasn't speaking
the right language. And when I got divorced, I understood that.
And now there's a word for it. It's called course
of control. I was really living that marriage and that control,
and I am a financial person. How do you that
(34:39):
knowledgeable really get in that type of situation? So I
want to encourage women out there that are guys, you know,
don't want to talk about this, like, how could I
let this happen to me? It can happen to anyone,
And I was an expert and it happened to me
because you want to do the right thing. You felt
that you had trust in that and you were taking advantage.
(35:00):
So it's okay, but it's not okay. Now let that
get you down, and you want to look too a
positive and learn from that, get strong and really move forward.
So that for me was that point where I had
to really kind of like get myself where I was,
put me in pieces and due to me, what I
(35:22):
do to clients to really I'm going to be a
single mother.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
We had litigation.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
There was no alamorie nor child support, and everybody's like, oh,
how can you you?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
You are pressed.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
Sometimes there's only so much you can do, and you know,
people find the ways avoid things, and unfortunately something you
have to make a decision. Do I litigate for years
and years or do I just go on and be
empowered the fact that I don't depend on some ali
MONI that's going to be over in a few months.
But really started building something from my own self. I've
(35:56):
never stopped working, you know. I that was my benefit.
Think sometimes when women didn't work for a while, it's
very very hard, but you know, you have no truths.
You have to believe in yourself. The confidence comes from
really doing things and the knowledge right. And I feel
like the more I got knowledgeable about my own situation,
I thought clearly kind of how I'm gonna position myself,
(36:19):
where I'm going to live, how my kids are going
to be in my care, how I'm going to provide
for them at fifty percent Because the distortion of the
income on the other side was pretty big and that
person would not understand it. So really just kind of
rising yourself above the noise and try to not fall
into codependency and move through and create the life for
your kids and enjoy, you know, plan ahead, take vacations,
(36:42):
you know, pay for these intimate relationship with kids because
kids get older so fast, you know things is, Yeah,
I don't want to save on be able to experience
life on my children, but I'm mindful of, you know,
not to get carried away with that either. So that
was like borderline being a financial professional but also being
like a person and the mom who wants to maybe
(37:05):
you know, enjoy and not be guilted by by.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
My own sort of duty of you know, accountability to myself.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
You've been to where.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Most everybody is that is that is listening to this podcast,
and then you rewrite your story several times over and
you're here to like make a difference in this space
to help people and to you know, when you have
financial clarity, you have so much, you have more than
you know.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Yeah, and you also understand there's no one and come
to save you. It's essentially it's on you, and you
wake up every day and you remind yourself it's going
to be a great day. You're going to make the
best of it, and you are going to take small
steps every day. And yeah, it's hard, but you know
life is hard, so you know there's no way out
of it. Right, we get to the other side and
(37:57):
here we are to help everybody and to make a difference.
T everybody that you're not alone. Yes, and as it is.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Helped, and that there are well, there will be happy
ever after and you will get your you know happy
number two, three, four, whatever it is, you'll you'll get there.
But financial planning, financial clarity is so important. Certified financial planner,
financial advisor, and the founder of Hair Financial specializes in
divorce consulting as a certified divorce financial analyst. Your mission,
(38:26):
it's deeply personal and I admire it so much. For
all you've done. Thank you so much for being here
at Tea Tiana.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Thank you, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Nito Kuda Divorce and Family Laws attorneys have guided Connecticut
and New York families through complex divorce actions, contested child custody,
and alimony disputes for over thirty years. Their Connecticut and
New York attorneys have extensive experience in family matters involving
substance abuse, domestic violence, mental illness, and many other X
factors that can complicate a divorce. Their attorneys a deptly
(38:57):
managed privacy and reputation concerns inherit to public divorce proceedings
and the related exposure for their ultra high net worth clients.
Find your new path forward, define your post divorce family,
and secure an enforcable agreement to protect your future with
Needle Cuda Act. Now put the strength of their team
behind you. Visit them at Needlecuda dot com or call
(39:20):
two O three five five seven nine five zero zero
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