Meet Jeffrey Landers: I spoke to Jeffrey Landers, CDLP, CDFA about his company, Divorce House Sense, LLC and his new book, Divorce House Sense: How To Keep Your Marital Home So You Can Move On, Not Out. The book will help divorcing people nationwide who want to keep their marital home.
In addition to discussing his book he also shared his personal story of being married for 34 years and now divorced.
You can find Jeffrey here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jefflanders/ https://www.facebook.com/jeff.landers.9210/
In addition to discussing his book he also shared his personal story of being married for 34 years and now divorced.
You can find Jeffrey here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jefflanders/ https://www.facebook.com/jeff.landers.9210/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Wendy, and this is Divorce Doesn't Suck. I'm
talking all about the life you can live after divorce.
You'll hear regular people's stories about their divorces and how
they reinvented themselves and grew. You'll also get invaluable advice
from experts who serve in the divorce community. A little
about me. I'm a former TV producer and mom of two.
I got divorced in two thousand and eight when there
were really no outlets or platforms for me to turn to.
(00:22):
So I'm paying it forward and have created a platform
to help men and women learn that there absolutely is
a fresh, new and exciting life after divorce. Come with
me on this journey and paint your brand new blank
canvas of happily ever after divorce. This episode is brought
to in part by the Needle Kuda Law Firm Guidance
that Moves Lives Forward. Welcome to another episode of Divorce
(00:43):
Doesn't Suck and Wendy's slowan, your hosts and my guests. Today,
the author of a new book, Divorce House, sends how
to keep your marital home so you can move on,
not out. He was married for thirty four years, currently
divorced as seasonal real estate, mortgage and divorce expert with
over forty years of combined experience, and so much more.
We're going to get into all that. Welcome to my show, Jeffrey.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Landers, Thank you, Wendy, glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I'm so happy you're here. And this is such a
needed topic and I don't talk about it enough, and
I need to talk about enough. We all knew need
to first. I didn't know how important having a Certified
Divorce Lending Professional CDLP and Certified Divorce Analyst CDFA was
until I started this podcast. Seriously, this in all truth.
(01:30):
You're licensed real estate mortgage broker. Basically you're everything someone
needs when getting divorced, going through divorce, selling a house,
all that stuff. So I want to dive deep into
all that. But before we get into that, married thirty
four years and what.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Happened, well, I think what happens, you know, unfortunately, or
you know with many couples, you get married for a
long time, you have kids, and then people sort of
grow apart. I mean, it wasn't terrible. In fact, I'm
very very happy to say my divorce was quite amicable.
(02:08):
My ex wife lives about a mile and a half
from me. We see each other all the time. We
probably talk a couple of times a week.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
With divorce now seven years separated, eight years, you know,
I'm out there, you know, dating, you know, had a
few relationships since, but I'm still single. And yeah, I mean,
you know, we obviously with my background, it was very
very easy to work out, you know, the the financial
(02:41):
aspects of the divorce. I mean, married for a long time.
I was agreeable to you know, permanent alimony, and I
wanted to make sure you know that you know, she
was taking care of, you know, financially after all this time.
It was my decision, you know, to get boss. So
you know, maybe maybe there was a little guilt there
(03:04):
or whatever it's like. But the whole thing took about
three months, and quite honestly, with both of our attorneys,
and she didn't even want to hire a divorce attorney.
I insisted, you know, to at least go through the
settlement agreement between the two of us court fees and
everything was less than five grand. And the whole thing
(03:26):
took three months from beginning.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Ten amazing, So was this something that was brewing for
a while or were you just kind of like the kids.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah, it was. And we were still married when
we moved down to Florida from New York. And you know,
my thinking was maybe a change of venue, you know,
kind of starting a new life and all of that
might change things. But in my opinion, it didn't. But
you know, after thirty four years, I mean, it's more
(03:57):
than half our life that you know, we spent together.
We got married in our late twenties. So yeah, it's
you know, like I said, it's worked out, you know
very well. You know, we're totally amicable. My older daughter
and my son and Laura down here, and my younger
(04:18):
daughter is also married. So it just makes things easy,
you know, when you're.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Dealing with a thirty four years together with someone and
then like all of a sudden being alone was it
was it a little scary.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
For both of you, I think, so, you know, for
her definitely and for me also. I mean, you know,
many times, you know, I say, my god, you know,
here I am, you know, sitting on the couch at
night watching TV all alone, you know, no one next
to me. Yeah, I mean it's certainly, you know, can
(04:56):
be difficult, you know, but it's it's a new experience.
And like I said, I've been in a couple of
relationships unfortunately for whatever reason, they didn't work out. But
I always kid when you know, I'm on a you know,
on a new date or whatever. I said, Well, at
least you know I'm not a commitment fobe. After being
(05:18):
married for thirty four years, you don't have to worry
about that. I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It's very different dating now than when you were you know,
when you first met your ex wife.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Right, oh god, there were no cell phones, there were
no dating apps. I mean, you know, sometimes it was
either through you know, mutual friends, or it was serendipity,
you know, or you went to a bar, or you
went out somewhere and you know, by chance, you just
bumped into somebody and started having a conversation. So yeah,
(05:49):
it's a it's a whole new world as far as
especially the you know, dating sites, so that.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
How you're meeting people, is it the dating site? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Mostly. I mean I've had a couple of introductions, and
I have to say, quite honestly, I mean I've never
had a bad date. I mean I've been on dates
where you know, I met someone and either one of
us or both of us knew this was going to
be the first and last day. But you know what,
had a nice dinner, had a you know, glass or
two of wine, pleasant conversation, and you know it, it
(06:24):
was a pleasant evening even though we both knew ain't
nothing gonna happen here.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I love that. I love It's like the Golden Bachelor
and Golden Bachelorette, right, it's like living living are two.
So you know, I interviewed someone recently and she said
she was on her fourth she was on her third
divorce and her fourth marriage, fourth and final marriage. And
I'm like, whatever works.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, But for me, that's a big red flag. I
mean I've met, you know, a bunch of women that
have been divorced several times and even recently. It's like, no,
I don't want to be number four. And the other
red flag for me is if you've never been married
and you never had children, so you know, it's like
(07:06):
why you know, you know, I mean that's my personal opinion.
It's like, you know, in fifty or sixty years, you
haven't met anybody that you know, So yes, that's my
own personal dating thoughts.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Well, I like that because we all, we all, we're
all here on this platform for a reason, right, So okay,
certified divorce lending professional, certified divorce analyst, licensed real estate
and mortgage burger, you're like everything.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yes, yes, So I've been working with divorcing people since
twenty ten, so fifteen years, most quite honestly, the vast
majority of women, and everything to do with the financial
aspects of divorce. So todate, I probably worked on over
(08:00):
a thousand divorce cases all over the US, in fact
a few internationally either they're Americans married to a foreigner
or vice versa, and everything and anything to do with
the financial aspects of divorce. But the reason I started
my new company, Divorce House Sense, and this book that
(08:21):
you mentioned is actually my seventh book on the financial
aspects of divorce. And the reason I started to focus
on the marital home is after going through all those
hundreds and hundreds of divorce cases, in the vast majority
of those cases, the marital home is often, if not
(08:42):
the largest asset, one of the largest assets, and often
a point of contention because for a lot of people
it's not just an asset. It you know, there's emotional attachment.
If you have minor children, they're in the home, what happens.
You don't want to take them out of school, you
don't want want to move them away from their friends.
(09:02):
So there's a lot more to the marital home than
a stock portfolio.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Oh yes, So I got to work a very long
time ago. My kids were little. I lived in a
very big house. I didn't I wish that I had
someone like you back then, because I wanted the house.
I wanted to keep the kids in consistency. I wanted
to keep the kids in their home. Mistake, you know,
because I was ordered to pay the mortgage. I was
(09:29):
ordered to pay all the house. And it was a
very big mortgage and a very big house. And there
was more nanny, there was no more housekeeper. My biggest
mistake was staying in that house.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, I mean for some people. I mean, and and
that's why I always advocate to bring in someone like
me as early as possible in the process, because you
want to know from the get go is this even feasible?
I mean, why spend time, energy and money going back
and forth with your rex, with both attorneys you know involved,
(10:03):
and you're spending all this time and money only to
find out after months, if not longer, that there's no
way that this is going to happen for you or
or you're going to end up house rich and cash poor. Uh,
and it's going to alter your lifestyle. You're never going
to be able to go out to eat or whatever.
You're basically doing everything to support the house. And especially
(10:26):
you know if you once your kids move out, do
you really need five bedrooms and three baths, you know,
all by yourself. So you've got to really look at
the practicality and the feasibility of keeping the home.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So your book, your book Divorce House Sense, how to
keep your marital homes you can move on or move
or move on not out. Let's start with them. Let's
start with basic stuff. Really, why alimony and chout's payments
may not count as income by mortgage lenders really important.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Okay, So people assume that if you're getting alimony and
you're getting child support, it's good, it's your income. But
from a lender's point of view, there's requirement. So in
most cases in order for and keep it separate. But
the rules applied to both alimony and child support one
(11:20):
you have to have received it consistently and on time
for six months prior to you even applying for a
refinancing or a new mortgage, and it has to continue
thereafter for another thirty six months, so we're talking at
least forty two months that this is happening. So let's
(11:41):
talk about child support. For example, in many states, the
age of emancipation is eighteen. Other states, like New York,
it's twenty one. So if you have a sixteen year
old child, okay, and they're going to be eighteen in
two years, well it doesn't matter if you're getting ten
thousand dollars a month for child support for that child.
(12:05):
From a lender's point of view, it's not going to
count because in two years it stops, so you don't
have that thirty six continuance requirement fulfilled, so it doesn't count.
So you know, there are ways to get around that.
And I'm not an attorney. I'm a law school dropout,
so I can't I can't give any legal advice. But
(12:28):
in many states it may be possible. Let's say you
have two children. One you have a sixteen year old
and one you have a twelve year old. Okay, it
may be possible to allocate more of the child support
to the younger child. So when the older child turns eighteen,
only a small part of that child support won't be considered.
(12:51):
But the twelve year old now has six years before
they turn eighteen, and you fulfill that thirty six month
of continuance thereafter there that's that's just one example. Of course,
the same thing applies to alimony. If your alimony is
going to last three years, okay, then how do you
fulfill the six months prior in the thirty six months
(13:12):
thereafter that's three and a half years, that's forty two months.
It won't count at all. So that's that's an issue.
I've spoken to many divorce attorneys around the country. Some
know that, some don't. But there are many, many other
timelines that are involved in getting approved. And that's why
(13:35):
you need divorce mortgage expert because divorce attorneys that's not
there forte okay. And the rules are constantly changing. You
know you have I don't want to get into the weeds,
but you know you have all these quasi governmental agencies
Fanny made Breddy mac Fha, all of those. They're constantly
changing the rules and you have to stay on top
(13:56):
of it in order to comply, and most attorneys don't
know that because real estate and mortgage lending is not
their expertise. And a lot of lenders and moultage focus
don't know all the nuances of divorce, so you really
need someone that understands both aspects.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Very interesting. Did not know any of that before this conversation,
Jeffrey amazing. We're going to take a quick break for
our sponsor. We're going to be right back with Jeffrey
Landers his book Divorce House Sense, How to keep your
marital home so you can move on not out. I
love the title of that book. It's so good. We'll
be right back from spring break to Memorial Day weekend.
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So how do we protect and improve our credit during
(15:24):
and after divorce? Credit is so important?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
And it absolutely is, and again lenders have certain requirements.
It's called DTI debt to income ratio and the lower
the bettest. So the debt ratio, the numerata, okay, is
the minimum monthly payments that you have for debt debt
(15:51):
meaning credit cards, personal loans, auto loans, student loans, plus
whatever the mortgage expenses going to be meaning your principal,
your interest, your real estate tax, your homeowner's insurance if
you have a homeowner's association. You want that number to
be as low as so many times in divorce, if
(16:14):
this joint debt, the settlement agreement might say, okay, you know,
just like you might be splitting the assets fifty to fifty,
split the debt fifty to fifty. But if you're the
spouse that wants to keep the home and you're now
responsible for fifty percent of the debt. That amount of
debt might be too high to get approved for your
(16:37):
mortgage or you're refinancing. So part of the negotiations that
you want to do is somehow to pay off that debt.
So either, you know, you could host trade with your spouse,
say okay, you know, payoff x percentage or all of
my debt in return, I'll give up maybe another asset,
or instead of getting you know, fifty percent of the
(16:59):
retirement funds, you'll only take forty percent. So you want
to be able to reduce that in order to improve
your chances of qualifying. Now, most divorces take six months
a year. I mean I've worked on cases that have
been four or five plus years. So if you know
(17:20):
from the beginning that you've got, you know, credit issues.
Let's say your credit score is too low or you
have some issues, you have plenty of time to start
rectifying that. Because the nice thing is if you start
paying down the debt so that your debt to income
ratio your DTI is lower, that's also simultaneously going to
(17:41):
improve your credit score. If you have less debt, your
credit score is going to start to go up. So
you sort of kill two birds with one stone by
doing that. But again, you need the time on your site.
Just like we talked about, you know, you got to start,
you know, the clock ticking six months prior to applying
(18:01):
for a mortgage. The same thing. If you want to improve,
you know, reduce your debt, improve your credit score, all
of that. The more time on your side. You can't
do it in thirty days, and maybe a little bit
in sixty days, but if you got nine months, a year,
a year and a half, you can certainly make a
big improvement in your credit score, all of which combined
(18:25):
will improve your chances wonderful.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So and you also say, what high interest rates shouldn't
titira deter us from refinancing. Is that, like I get,
thankfully I own my home now, but that mortgage mortgage
rate now scares me.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yes. So so what I say in the book and
everything you know that I do with with clients is yes,
it's very high, and nobody wants to give up, you know,
a two or three percent rate. But if your goal
is to keep the home okay, and you're able to
(19:06):
buy out your spouse's share because they're really two steps
to keeping the home. One, you have to buy out
your spouse's share of the home's equity. Are you able
to do that? That's number one? And two, are you
able to qualify to refinance the mortgage even if it's
now at seven percent and you still have money left
over to buy groceries and everything else. If the answer
(19:30):
to that is yes, and your goal is to keep
the home, then even though interest rates are higher now,
do it. You keep your home and a year, two years,
three years from now you could refinance again when maybe
mortgage rates are five percent or maybe down to four.
I don't know if they're ever going back to two
or three percent, but I do think that they'll come down.
(19:52):
I mean they're already below seven now. I mean I
look this morning, it's six point seven eight percent, So
it has come down. So if you qualify and you
could afford it, and you have money left over for
you know, the essentials of life, do it. And like
I said, you could always refinance a year or two.
But in the meantime, you're building equity in your house.
(20:13):
Hopefully you're in an area where the value of your
house is appreciating, so you're building more equity and at
the appropriate time you could refinance.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Then okay, so how do and what do you do
when it's there's a difficult spouse because we all know
that sometimes divorce is not easy and there's always contention
and one's spouse is not or both of them are battling, battling, battling,
and here you are and you know no one wants
to give up the house or both want to, Like,
how do you deal with all that?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Right? So, then that obviously becomes difficult because you know
all the things we spoke about now you know requires
a negotiation and horse trading with your spouse. You know,
you know, are you willing to give up more of
the assets in return for him or her paying down
the debt and things of that nature if it's really contentious,
(21:07):
I mean, the truth of the matter is I mean,
if you're going to court and it's really an acrimonious
situation and you're going in front of a judge, more
likely than not the judge is going to say, you
know what, you sell the house, split the proceeds after
you know all the expenses, and go on with your
separate lives. I mean, it's often the easier you know,
(21:28):
way to do things. In fact, in my experience, a
lot of divorce attorneys will just say to their clients,
you know what, let's not go through all this hassle
of keeping the house and this and that, just sell
it and buy something else and whatever. But you know what,
in this day and age, not that easy to buy something.
You know. One, you know, the supply is very low. Two,
(21:52):
the prices are very high. So you have a lot
of people that might sell their beautiful, you know, five bedroom,
three bath, you know house, and then they look for
something and all they can afford is, you know, a
two bedroom to bath condo given the prices. So, I
mean there's a lot of reasons that you want to
keep the house. And if you notice, the subtitle of
(22:14):
my book is how to keep, not how to sell it.
I mean, even though this chapter is in there about
what happens if you have to sell and how to
do that and if you have a difficult spouse and
all of that, but this is specifically written for people
that would like to keep the home. I mean some
people don't. I mean I've heard it. You know, the
(22:35):
house has nothing, but you know, miserable and unpleasant memories
for me, I want no part of it and I
can't wait to get rid of it. Well that's a
different story, okay, But there are a lot of people,
both men and women, that for whatever reasons, would like
to keep their home. I had a client, a man,
and he was willing in order to buy out his
(22:57):
wife's share of the home's equity. He was basically willing
to give up his entire four oh one k in retirement.
And I said, are you sure you want to do that?
And he said, you know what, the house will be
my retirement account. I'll sell it in fifteen years or whatever.
By paying down my mortgage and hopefully appreciation, it'll be fine.
(23:20):
And okay, it made sense for him in that instance.
He was still young enough that he was able to rebuild,
you know, his retirement account, and he was basically counting
on the fact that his equity's going to be increased
by paying down the mortgage and hopefully appreciation. That was
an intelligent decision on his part, and he didn't mind
(23:42):
giving it up. But you know, if he was sixty
two years old, that would have probably been a bad
decision to give up all your retirement at that So,
you know, it really depends. You know, the advice I
would give to someone that's sixty two is different than
the advice I would give to someone that's forty.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Two, right, right, It all depends what is great divorce
great divorce.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
So that terminology has come into play where they're talking
about people that are over fifty getting divorced. And actually,
even though the divorce rate in general has come down,
and probably because the marriage rate has also come down,
but people getting divorced over fifty has increased by double.
(24:26):
More and more people are getting divorced over the age
of fifty, and it probably has a lot to do
with people are living longer. You know, you're living to
one hundred that fifty. You know, if you got fifty
years ahead of you, that's a long time. And many
people are and I'm a perfect example of that. Many
(24:46):
of people are saying, you know, is this the life
I want to have in the next thirty or forty years,
And they're deciding, no, I need a change. And the
divorce rate is actually very very hot for people over fifty.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Amazing. Okay, So let's dive into your book. The mission
of the book, Like you said, I'm specifically written for
people that want to keep the home. The book is
Divorce House Sense, How to Keep your marital Home so
you can move on not out. There's so many great
chapters in there. Basically it's like a how can. It's
like a how to.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Exactly and all the things you need to know about
and all the things you need to do as early
as possible. And I always stress that you know you're
not going to hear this in most cases from your
divorce attorney because as I said before, this is not
thereforete They're not experts. Most you know, mortgage brokers don't
(25:50):
know all the nuances of divorce. So this really gives
you a lot of information that's not commonly known. I mean,
quite honestly, a lot of it. I you know, the
searchers on the internet. I used AI to get some
of the answers that I have.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
In the boss p AI right, and and AI didn't
come you know what answer I got from AI? Talk
to your divorce attorney, Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
So a lot of the information is just not known.
And then I have some bonuses that come with the
purchase of the book, which by the way, is only
available on my website, Divorce House Sense, And that's se
n SE dot com. And you know timelines, the important
(26:40):
timelines like what we were talking about, the six months
prior and the thirty six months thereafter. There are a
bunch of other timelines. And then I have other things
that once you buy the book, I have an equity
calculator to figure out how much equity might have and
how much you would have to divide with your spouse.
And then I have an entire course okay that's available
(27:03):
on how to buy out your spouse's share of the
homes equity, and I go into great detail of all
the different ways you might be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, if you didn't know, you need a c DLP
and a CDFA in your life if you're going through
a divorce as early as can I stay? Can I
afford to keep the home? Do I have enough assets
to buy out my spouse? Can I refinance the mortgage?
Just a few And this book is a guidebook and
you will gain little known but essential knowledge. It's such
an important I mean, I keep wanting to put this
(27:36):
out there on the podcast because I didn't know anything
about this when I was getting divorced, which was a
long time ago. But I still think it's so important.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Oh absolutely, you know about this.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I mean because like you said, and we've said on
this podcast, it's most people's biggest asset, the marital home.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Now, without question, any.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Last minute thoughts, everyone should go get this book. Divorce
House sends how to keep your marrital home so you
can move on out. It's a brilliant book. It's so helpful,
so needed, as is Jeffrey Landers, my guest today.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Thank you so much, Wendy. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Any last minute thoughts you want to put out there.
And thanks for your personal story, by the way, and
I wish you all the happiness world for two point zero.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Thank you so much. Yeah. The other thing is I'm
also available to take on a limited number of clients
each month. So you know, some people might read the
book and say this is great stuff, but I'm not
sure where to begin. I'd like somebody to really help
me through the entire process, and I could do that
anywhere USA. So if someone needed my personal help, first
(28:47):
get the book so you have an understanding. And then
after that, if you're like, wow, you know this is great,
but you know I don't even know where to begin,
I can help you know, get somebody through the entire process.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I love it. Thanks so much, such important information. He's
the author of the new book Divorce House sends how
to keep your marital home so you can move on
not out. Jeffrey Landers, thank you so much for being
my guest today.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Thank you, Wendy. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Needlekuda Divorce and Family Laws attorneys have guided Connecticut and
New York families through complex divorce actions, contested child custody,
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New York attorneys have extensive experience in family matters involving
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factors that can complicate a divorce. Their attorneys a deptly
(29:37):
managed privacy and reputation concerns inherit to public divorce proceedings
and the related exposure for their ultra high net worth clients.
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(30:01):
five seven nine five zero zero,
Hi, I'm Wendy, and this is Divorce Doesn't Suck. I'm
talking all about the life you can live after divorce.
You'll hear regular people's stories about their divorces and how
they reinvented themselves and grew. You'll also get invaluable advice
from experts who serve in the divorce community. A little
about me. I'm a former TV producer and mom of two.
I got divorced in two thousand and eight when there
were really no outlets or platforms for me to turn to.
(00:22):
So I'm paying it forward and have created a platform
to help men and women learn that there absolutely is
a fresh, new and exciting life after divorce. Come with
me on this journey and paint your brand new blank
canvas of happily ever after divorce. This episode is brought
to in part by the Needle Kuda Law Firm Guidance
that Moves Lives Forward. Welcome to another episode of Divorce
(00:43):
Doesn't Suck and Wendy's slowan, your hosts and my guests. Today,
the author of a new book, Divorce House, sends how
to keep your marital home so you can move on,
not out. He was married for thirty four years, currently
divorced as seasonal real estate, mortgage and divorce expert with
over forty years of combined experience, and so much more.
We're going to get into all that. Welcome to my show, Jeffrey.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Landers, Thank you, Wendy, glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I'm so happy you're here. And this is such a
needed topic and I don't talk about it enough, and
I need to talk about enough. We all knew need
to first. I didn't know how important having a Certified
Divorce Lending Professional CDLP and Certified Divorce Analyst CDFA was
until I started this podcast. Seriously, this in all truth.
(01:30):
You're licensed real estate mortgage broker. Basically you're everything someone
needs when getting divorced, going through divorce, selling a house,
all that stuff. So I want to dive deep into
all that. But before we get into that, married thirty
four years and what.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Happened, well, I think what happens, you know, unfortunately, or
you know with many couples, you get married for a
long time, you have kids, and then people sort of
grow apart. I mean, it wasn't terrible. In fact, I'm
very very happy to say my divorce was quite amicable.
(02:08):
My ex wife lives about a mile and a half
from me. We see each other all the time. We
probably talk a couple of times a week.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
With divorce now seven years separated, eight years, you know,
I'm out there, you know, dating, you know, had a
few relationships since, but I'm still single. And yeah, I mean,
you know, we obviously with my background, it was very
very easy to work out, you know, the the financial
(02:41):
aspects of the divorce. I mean, married for a long time.
I was agreeable to you know, permanent alimony, and I
wanted to make sure you know that you know, she
was taking care of, you know, financially after all this time.
It was my decision, you know, to get boss. So
you know, maybe maybe there was a little guilt there
(03:04):
or whatever it's like. But the whole thing took about
three months, and quite honestly, with both of our attorneys,
and she didn't even want to hire a divorce attorney.
I insisted, you know, to at least go through the
settlement agreement between the two of us court fees and
everything was less than five grand. And the whole thing
(03:26):
took three months from beginning.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Ten amazing, So was this something that was brewing for
a while or were you just kind of like the kids.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah, it was. And we were still married when
we moved down to Florida from New York. And you know,
my thinking was maybe a change of venue, you know,
kind of starting a new life and all of that
might change things. But in my opinion, it didn't. But
you know, after thirty four years, I mean, it's more
(03:57):
than half our life that you know, we spent together.
We got married in our late twenties. So yeah, it's
you know, like I said, it's worked out, you know
very well. You know, we're totally amicable. My older daughter
and my son and Laura down here, and my younger
(04:18):
daughter is also married. So it just makes things easy,
you know, when you're.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Dealing with a thirty four years together with someone and
then like all of a sudden being alone was it
was it a little scary.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
For both of you, I think, so, you know, for
her definitely and for me also. I mean, you know,
many times, you know, I say, my god, you know,
here I am, you know, sitting on the couch at
night watching TV all alone, you know, no one next
to me. Yeah, I mean it's certainly, you know, can
(04:56):
be difficult, you know, but it's it's a new experience.
And like I said, I've been in a couple of
relationships unfortunately for whatever reason, they didn't work out. But
I always kid when you know, I'm on a you know,
on a new date or whatever. I said, Well, at
least you know I'm not a commitment fobe. After being
(05:18):
married for thirty four years, you don't have to worry
about that. I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It's very different dating now than when you were you know,
when you first met your ex wife.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Right, oh god, there were no cell phones, there were
no dating apps. I mean, you know, sometimes it was
either through you know, mutual friends, or it was serendipity,
you know, or you went to a bar, or you
went out somewhere and you know, by chance, you just
bumped into somebody and started having a conversation. So yeah,
(05:49):
it's a it's a whole new world as far as
especially the you know, dating sites, so that.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
How you're meeting people, is it the dating site? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Mostly. I mean I've had a couple of introductions, and
I have to say, quite honestly, I mean I've never
had a bad date. I mean I've been on dates
where you know, I met someone and either one of
us or both of us knew this was going to
be the first and last day. But you know what,
had a nice dinner, had a you know, glass or
two of wine, pleasant conversation, and you know it, it
(06:24):
was a pleasant evening even though we both knew ain't
nothing gonna happen here.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I love that. I love It's like the Golden Bachelor
and Golden Bachelorette, right, it's like living living are two.
So you know, I interviewed someone recently and she said
she was on her fourth she was on her third
divorce and her fourth marriage, fourth and final marriage. And
I'm like, whatever works.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, But for me, that's a big red flag. I
mean I've met, you know, a bunch of women that
have been divorced several times and even recently. It's like, no,
I don't want to be number four. And the other
red flag for me is if you've never been married
and you never had children, so you know, it's like
(07:06):
why you know, you know, I mean that's my personal opinion.
It's like, you know, in fifty or sixty years, you
haven't met anybody that you know, So yes, that's my
own personal dating thoughts.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Well, I like that because we all, we all, we're
all here on this platform for a reason, right, So okay,
certified divorce lending professional, certified divorce analyst, licensed real estate
and mortgage burger, you're like everything.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yes, yes, So I've been working with divorcing people since
twenty ten, so fifteen years, most quite honestly, the vast
majority of women, and everything to do with the financial
aspects of divorce. So todate, I probably worked on over
(08:00):
a thousand divorce cases all over the US, in fact
a few internationally either they're Americans married to a foreigner
or vice versa, and everything and anything to do with
the financial aspects of divorce. But the reason I started
my new company, Divorce House Sense, and this book that
(08:21):
you mentioned is actually my seventh book on the financial
aspects of divorce. And the reason I started to focus
on the marital home is after going through all those
hundreds and hundreds of divorce cases, in the vast majority
of those cases, the marital home is often, if not
(08:42):
the largest asset, one of the largest assets, and often
a point of contention because for a lot of people
it's not just an asset. It you know, there's emotional attachment.
If you have minor children, they're in the home, what happens.
You don't want to take them out of school, you
don't want want to move them away from their friends.
(09:02):
So there's a lot more to the marital home than
a stock portfolio.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Oh yes, So I got to work a very long
time ago. My kids were little. I lived in a
very big house. I didn't I wish that I had
someone like you back then, because I wanted the house.
I wanted to keep the kids in consistency. I wanted
to keep the kids in their home. Mistake, you know,
because I was ordered to pay the mortgage. I was
(09:29):
ordered to pay all the house. And it was a
very big mortgage and a very big house. And there
was more nanny, there was no more housekeeper. My biggest
mistake was staying in that house.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, I mean for some people. I mean, and and
that's why I always advocate to bring in someone like
me as early as possible in the process, because you
want to know from the get go is this even feasible?
I mean, why spend time, energy and money going back
and forth with your rex, with both attorneys you know involved,
(10:03):
and you're spending all this time and money only to
find out after months, if not longer, that there's no
way that this is going to happen for you or
or you're going to end up house rich and cash poor. Uh,
and it's going to alter your lifestyle. You're never going
to be able to go out to eat or whatever.
You're basically doing everything to support the house. And especially
(10:26):
you know if you once your kids move out, do
you really need five bedrooms and three baths, you know,
all by yourself. So you've got to really look at
the practicality and the feasibility of keeping the home.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So your book, your book Divorce House Sense, how to
keep your marital homes you can move on or move
or move on not out. Let's start with them. Let's
start with basic stuff. Really, why alimony and chout's payments
may not count as income by mortgage lenders really important.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Okay, So people assume that if you're getting alimony and
you're getting child support, it's good, it's your income. But
from a lender's point of view, there's requirement. So in
most cases in order for and keep it separate. But
the rules applied to both alimony and child support one
(11:20):
you have to have received it consistently and on time
for six months prior to you even applying for a
refinancing or a new mortgage, and it has to continue
thereafter for another thirty six months, so we're talking at
least forty two months that this is happening. So let's
(11:41):
talk about child support. For example, in many states, the
age of emancipation is eighteen. Other states, like New York,
it's twenty one. So if you have a sixteen year
old child, okay, and they're going to be eighteen in
two years, well it doesn't matter if you're getting ten
thousand dollars a month for child support for that child.
(12:05):
From a lender's point of view, it's not going to
count because in two years it stops, so you don't
have that thirty six continuance requirement fulfilled, so it doesn't count.
So you know, there are ways to get around that.
And I'm not an attorney. I'm a law school dropout,
so I can't I can't give any legal advice. But
(12:28):
in many states it may be possible. Let's say you
have two children. One you have a sixteen year old
and one you have a twelve year old. Okay, it
may be possible to allocate more of the child support
to the younger child. So when the older child turns eighteen,
only a small part of that child support won't be considered.
(12:51):
But the twelve year old now has six years before
they turn eighteen, and you fulfill that thirty six month
of continuance thereafter there that's that's just one example. Of course,
the same thing applies to alimony. If your alimony is
going to last three years, okay, then how do you
fulfill the six months prior in the thirty six months
(13:12):
thereafter that's three and a half years, that's forty two months.
It won't count at all. So that's that's an issue.
I've spoken to many divorce attorneys around the country. Some
know that, some don't. But there are many, many other
timelines that are involved in getting approved. And that's why
(13:35):
you need divorce mortgage expert because divorce attorneys that's not
there forte okay. And the rules are constantly changing. You
know you have I don't want to get into the weeds,
but you know you have all these quasi governmental agencies
Fanny made Breddy mac Fha, all of those. They're constantly
changing the rules and you have to stay on top
(13:56):
of it in order to comply, and most attorneys don't
know that because real estate and mortgage lending is not
their expertise. And a lot of lenders and moultage focus
don't know all the nuances of divorce, so you really
need someone that understands both aspects.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Very interesting. Did not know any of that before this conversation,
Jeffrey amazing. We're going to take a quick break for
our sponsor. We're going to be right back with Jeffrey
Landers his book Divorce House Sense, How to keep your
marital home so you can move on not out. I
love the title of that book. It's so good. We'll
be right back from spring break to Memorial Day weekend.
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So how do we protect and improve our credit during
(15:24):
and after divorce? Credit is so important?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
And it absolutely is, and again lenders have certain requirements.
It's called DTI debt to income ratio and the lower
the bettest. So the debt ratio, the numerata, okay, is
the minimum monthly payments that you have for debt debt
(15:51):
meaning credit cards, personal loans, auto loans, student loans, plus
whatever the mortgage expenses going to be meaning your principal,
your interest, your real estate tax, your homeowner's insurance if
you have a homeowner's association. You want that number to
be as low as so many times in divorce, if
(16:14):
this joint debt, the settlement agreement might say, okay, you know,
just like you might be splitting the assets fifty to fifty,
split the debt fifty to fifty. But if you're the
spouse that wants to keep the home and you're now
responsible for fifty percent of the debt. That amount of
debt might be too high to get approved for your
(16:37):
mortgage or you're refinancing. So part of the negotiations that
you want to do is somehow to pay off that debt.
So either, you know, you could host trade with your spouse,
say okay, you know, payoff x percentage or all of
my debt in return, I'll give up maybe another asset,
or instead of getting you know, fifty percent of the
(16:59):
retirement funds, you'll only take forty percent. So you want
to be able to reduce that in order to improve
your chances of qualifying. Now, most divorces take six months
a year. I mean I've worked on cases that have
been four or five plus years. So if you know
(17:20):
from the beginning that you've got, you know, credit issues.
Let's say your credit score is too low or you
have some issues, you have plenty of time to start
rectifying that. Because the nice thing is if you start
paying down the debt so that your debt to income
ratio your DTI is lower, that's also simultaneously going to
(17:41):
improve your credit score. If you have less debt, your
credit score is going to start to go up. So
you sort of kill two birds with one stone by
doing that. But again, you need the time on your site.
Just like we talked about, you know, you got to start,
you know, the clock ticking six months prior to applying
(18:01):
for a mortgage. The same thing. If you want to improve,
you know, reduce your debt, improve your credit score, all
of that. The more time on your side. You can't
do it in thirty days, and maybe a little bit
in sixty days, but if you got nine months, a year,
a year and a half, you can certainly make a
big improvement in your credit score, all of which combined
(18:25):
will improve your chances wonderful.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So and you also say, what high interest rates shouldn't
titira deter us from refinancing. Is that, like I get,
thankfully I own my home now, but that mortgage mortgage
rate now scares me.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yes. So so what I say in the book and
everything you know that I do with with clients is yes,
it's very high, and nobody wants to give up, you know,
a two or three percent rate. But if your goal
is to keep the home okay, and you're able to
(19:06):
buy out your spouse's share because they're really two steps
to keeping the home. One, you have to buy out
your spouse's share of the home's equity. Are you able
to do that? That's number one? And two, are you
able to qualify to refinance the mortgage even if it's
now at seven percent and you still have money left
over to buy groceries and everything else. If the answer
(19:30):
to that is yes, and your goal is to keep
the home, then even though interest rates are higher now,
do it. You keep your home and a year, two years,
three years from now you could refinance again when maybe
mortgage rates are five percent or maybe down to four.
I don't know if they're ever going back to two
or three percent, but I do think that they'll come down.
(19:52):
I mean they're already below seven now. I mean I
look this morning, it's six point seven eight percent, So
it has come down. So if you qualify and you
could afford it, and you have money left over for
you know, the essentials of life, do it. And like
I said, you could always refinance a year or two.
But in the meantime, you're building equity in your house.
(20:13):
Hopefully you're in an area where the value of your
house is appreciating, so you're building more equity and at
the appropriate time you could refinance.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Then okay, so how do and what do you do
when it's there's a difficult spouse because we all know
that sometimes divorce is not easy and there's always contention
and one's spouse is not or both of them are battling, battling, battling,
and here you are and you know no one wants
to give up the house or both want to, Like,
how do you deal with all that?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Right? So, then that obviously becomes difficult because you know
all the things we spoke about now you know requires
a negotiation and horse trading with your spouse. You know,
you know, are you willing to give up more of
the assets in return for him or her paying down
the debt and things of that nature if it's really contentious,
(21:07):
I mean, the truth of the matter is I mean,
if you're going to court and it's really an acrimonious
situation and you're going in front of a judge, more
likely than not the judge is going to say, you
know what, you sell the house, split the proceeds after
you know all the expenses, and go on with your
separate lives. I mean, it's often the easier you know,
(21:28):
way to do things. In fact, in my experience, a
lot of divorce attorneys will just say to their clients,
you know what, let's not go through all this hassle
of keeping the house and this and that, just sell
it and buy something else and whatever. But you know what,
in this day and age, not that easy to buy something.
You know. One, you know, the supply is very low. Two,
(21:52):
the prices are very high. So you have a lot
of people that might sell their beautiful, you know, five bedroom,
three bath, you know house, and then they look for
something and all they can afford is, you know, a
two bedroom to bath condo given the prices. So, I
mean there's a lot of reasons that you want to
keep the house. And if you notice, the subtitle of
(22:14):
my book is how to keep, not how to sell it.
I mean, even though this chapter is in there about
what happens if you have to sell and how to
do that and if you have a difficult spouse and
all of that, but this is specifically written for people
that would like to keep the home. I mean some
people don't. I mean I've heard it. You know, the
(22:35):
house has nothing, but you know, miserable and unpleasant memories
for me, I want no part of it and I
can't wait to get rid of it. Well that's a
different story, okay, But there are a lot of people,
both men and women, that for whatever reasons, would like
to keep their home. I had a client, a man,
and he was willing in order to buy out his
(22:57):
wife's share of the home's equity. He was basically willing
to give up his entire four oh one k in retirement.
And I said, are you sure you want to do that?
And he said, you know what, the house will be
my retirement account. I'll sell it in fifteen years or whatever.
By paying down my mortgage and hopefully appreciation, it'll be fine.
(23:20):
And okay, it made sense for him in that instance.
He was still young enough that he was able to rebuild,
you know, his retirement account, and he was basically counting
on the fact that his equity's going to be increased
by paying down the mortgage and hopefully appreciation. That was
an intelligent decision on his part, and he didn't mind
(23:42):
giving it up. But you know, if he was sixty
two years old, that would have probably been a bad
decision to give up all your retirement at that So,
you know, it really depends. You know, the advice I
would give to someone that's sixty two is different than
the advice I would give to someone that's forty.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Two, right, right, It all depends what is great divorce
great divorce.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
So that terminology has come into play where they're talking
about people that are over fifty getting divorced. And actually,
even though the divorce rate in general has come down,
and probably because the marriage rate has also come down,
but people getting divorced over fifty has increased by double.
(24:26):
More and more people are getting divorced over the age
of fifty, and it probably has a lot to do
with people are living longer. You know, you're living to
one hundred that fifty. You know, if you got fifty
years ahead of you, that's a long time. And many
people are and I'm a perfect example of that. Many
(24:46):
of people are saying, you know, is this the life
I want to have in the next thirty or forty years,
And they're deciding, no, I need a change. And the
divorce rate is actually very very hot for people over fifty.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Amazing. Okay, So let's dive into your book. The mission
of the book, Like you said, I'm specifically written for
people that want to keep the home. The book is
Divorce House Sense, How to Keep your marital Home so
you can move on not out. There's so many great
chapters in there. Basically it's like a how can. It's
like a how to.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Exactly and all the things you need to know about
and all the things you need to do as early
as possible. And I always stress that you know you're
not going to hear this in most cases from your
divorce attorney because as I said before, this is not
thereforete They're not experts. Most you know, mortgage brokers don't
(25:50):
know all the nuances of divorce. So this really gives
you a lot of information that's not commonly known. I mean,
quite honestly, a lot of it. I you know, the
searchers on the internet. I used AI to get some
of the answers that I have.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
In the boss p AI right, and and AI didn't
come you know what answer I got from AI? Talk
to your divorce attorney, Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
So a lot of the information is just not known.
And then I have some bonuses that come with the
purchase of the book, which by the way, is only
available on my website, Divorce House Sense, And that's se
n SE dot com. And you know timelines, the important
(26:40):
timelines like what we were talking about, the six months
prior and the thirty six months thereafter. There are a
bunch of other timelines. And then I have other things
that once you buy the book, I have an equity
calculator to figure out how much equity might have and
how much you would have to divide with your spouse.
And then I have an entire course okay that's available
(27:03):
on how to buy out your spouse's share of the
homes equity, and I go into great detail of all
the different ways you might be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, if you didn't know, you need a c DLP
and a CDFA in your life if you're going through
a divorce as early as can I stay? Can I
afford to keep the home? Do I have enough assets
to buy out my spouse? Can I refinance the mortgage?
Just a few And this book is a guidebook and
you will gain little known but essential knowledge. It's such
an important I mean, I keep wanting to put this
(27:36):
out there on the podcast because I didn't know anything
about this when I was getting divorced, which was a
long time ago. But I still think it's so important.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Oh absolutely, you know about this.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I mean because like you said, and we've said on
this podcast, it's most people's biggest asset, the marital home.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Now, without question, any.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Last minute thoughts, everyone should go get this book. Divorce
House sends how to keep your marrital home so you
can move on out. It's a brilliant book. It's so helpful,
so needed, as is Jeffrey Landers, my guest today.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Thank you so much, Wendy. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Any last minute thoughts you want to put out there.
And thanks for your personal story, by the way, and
I wish you all the happiness world for two point zero.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Thank you so much. Yeah. The other thing is I'm
also available to take on a limited number of clients
each month. So you know, some people might read the
book and say this is great stuff, but I'm not
sure where to begin. I'd like somebody to really help
me through the entire process, and I could do that
anywhere USA. So if someone needed my personal help, first
(28:47):
get the book so you have an understanding. And then
after that, if you're like, wow, you know this is great,
but you know I don't even know where to begin,
I can help you know, get somebody through the entire process.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I love it. Thanks so much, such important information. He's
the author of the new book Divorce House sends how
to keep your marital home so you can move on
not out. Jeffrey Landers, thank you so much for being
my guest today.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Thank you, Wendy. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Needlekuda Divorce and Family Laws attorneys have guided Connecticut and
New York families through complex divorce actions, contested child custody,
and alimony disputes for over thirty years. Their Connecticut and
New York attorneys have extensive experience in family matters involving
substance abuse, domestic violence, mental illness, and many other X
factors that can complicate a divorce. Their attorneys a deptly
(29:37):
managed privacy and reputation concerns inherit to public divorce proceedings
and the related exposure for their ultra high net worth clients.
Find your new path forward, define your post divorce family,
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