Rich sits down with SEC Storied: "In Spirit" Director Marc Kinderman and Producer Jake Williams 2025-5-12

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've been looking forward to this segment for a few
days here. Oh yeah, once I got it all lined
up to be able to have both of these guests
on it at the same time. I'm telling you it's
a great opportunity as we're going to be diving into
a story and a lot of Gamecock fans that you
will want to hear about this that it will hit
you though, right in the heart and remind you of

(00:20):
why we love sports. The SEC story documentary In Spirit
debuts on the SEC Network Wednesday, May fourteenth at seven pm,
celebrating the South Carolina game Cocks back to back national
championships in twenty ten and twenty eleven, but more importantly,
the incredible bond they forged with two young fans, Charlie

(00:42):
Peters and Baylor Teal and joining me now behind the film,
The Masterminds director Mark Kinderman, the storytelling veteran with ESPN
and producer Jake Williams, a former Gamecock outfielder and national
champ himself. Mark, Jake can't thank you enough for joining
us and just to keep things succinct and moving because
I know our listeners want to be able to hear

(01:03):
from both of you. I'm going to start with you, Jake,
take us back when this idea for in Spirit first
hit you, and knowing that the memory of Baylor Teel
and obviously Charlie what he meant to the team, that
made you say this story has to be told.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, thank you guys for having us. We're thrilled to
be on and in the in this unique situation Mark
and I together, I'm very excited. So yes, this is
a story obviously close to home as I lived this
back in my college years and was able to be
a part of these championships firsthand. Some time had gone
by post championships, and you know, the story stood is

(01:44):
one of the all time great, one of the great
teams ever in college baseball, So I knew someone was
going to go after telling the story. Later I found
out that someone was Mark Kinderman. Now what happened along
the way before I met with Mark was uh some
some years of trial and tribulation just to get the
story greenlit. You know, about five or six years went

(02:06):
by after the championships when I first had the idea,
and then I first got Ray Tanner and the university involved.
We started kicking off with some interviews trying to trying
to get some funds going, trying to get the right
resources happening. It took a little time to get to
the right deal and to get to the right situation
where Mark and I finally found each other with ESPN,
we linked up a few years back, and fortunately this

(02:30):
film found its way to the natural home in ESPN
and the SEC Network. The story itself, you know, as
as you mentioned with the with the with the Peters
family and the Teal family, it's as pointing as it
gets in it and I loved how you put it. It
does remind us why we love sports. So again, the
teams Stand is one of the great ever. Yeah, but

(02:50):
also it has such an amazing romance to the story
as well. So I knew, I knew it had to
get told. I knew it needed to be told in
the right way. So, you know, me being a first
time filmmaker and aspiring storyteller, I took off into the story.
And you know, some years it took, but we finally
got here and could be more excited.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
No question. Well can I use this pun, Jake, You
hit a home run right here. There's no question when
you're able to this story together yes, all right. So Mark,
then I have to jump to you in terms of
hearing what Jake just talked about the romance of the story.
So from your perspective when Jake first was talking to
you about this, what was it about the vision that

(03:33):
made you jump on board with this project?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
You know my worry. I think a lot of it
was was with the families that I really wanted to get,
you know, their story sold. Obviously, the team went in
in ten and eleven is huge. Back back is really important.
But when I went back and looked at the tape,
you know, from ten to eleven, and I saw Aaron Andrews,

(03:57):
you know, interviewing you know, the Peel family and being
with them. And then in eleven, you know, you can
see all the shots and Charlie Peterson dugout and I
kind of knew, you know, what we had there already visually.
It was just a matter of kind of of bringing
out that story. And you know, Jake had already done
a lot of the leg work. He interviewed the Teals

(04:20):
you know already, and you know, was was getting set
to do more with the Peters, and you know, I was,
you know, kind of happy we were in sync from.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
There, Yeah, and remind everybody. The SEC story documentary In
Spirit debuts on the SEC Network Wednesday, May fourteenth at
seven pm, and celebrating South Carolina's back to back National
Baseball championships in two thousand and ten and twenty eleven,
but also more importantly about the story of two unlikely heroes.

(04:50):
And we're joined right now by the director Mark Kinderman
and producer Jake Williams. And so that family side that
you're talking about, Mark, that's where some of the you've
been experienced with some heavy hitting stories that you've done
previously with the ESPN and in Spirit companies are embodies
that type of mindset as well, because it's not just

(05:10):
about South Carolina and their run that they had in
terms of, you know, being able to hit home runs,
just the dominance that they had in that postseason and
the trophies, but it's about the two boys battling cancer
who ultimately became the heartbeat of these teams. So how
did you approach that balancing the triumph of this amazing

(05:32):
run during the postseason in the College World Series for
these teams, but also the raw emotional weight of Charlie
and Baylor's journeys.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
Well, I think the important thing there is that you
have to make space for those stories, you know, especially
as you think about the comeback in the Oklahoma game
and what goes on from there in the twenty ten series,
that you have to leave that space for guys like
Baylor's dad, Rob Teal and Chad Holbrook, who are who

(06:05):
are so emotional in that story. It's just a matter
of making that space so that they can tell those stories.
And then you're kind of building back out from around
that Charlie. You know, obviously he's you know, still with
us and doing well, and that's you know, a lot
more lighthearted as you get deeper in the show, but
you still want to be able to tie those things,

(06:28):
you know, back into the baseball and that's really I
think what Jake and I looked for is that where
do these intersections hit, where they tie most between these
families and these two teams, and make sure those points
get in the show, get in the film, and want
to do that the rest you know, kind of falls

(06:48):
into place.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, and Jake, someone who lived the moments you were
there and you know, now being able to view it
from a retrospective type of lens. You know, working with Mark,
when did you feel that, yes, we're capturing the soul
of what this team was all about.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Well, for me, it was finally a blessing to find
Mark and the gentleman at ESPN, Scott Seebers and a
few others were really instrumental and kind of keeping this
afloat at different times. Kind of what had happened was
along the way is again me being a first time er,
I was just trying to find the right partners to
help bring this story to screen, to help get it

(07:30):
to life. You know, I didn't want to just have
it fall away where no one would see it. I
had to do whatever I needed to do to get
it there. Fortunately, again in a in a really sort
of God send kind of way, ESPN set Mark and
Eye up together Mark, Mark and his company they've been

(07:50):
doing these sorts of stories for years. They've they're seasoned vets.
In fact, they've done sec stories already, and they just
did the Skip Bertman film, a few baseball films. So
it gave me an easy comfort finally finding them, knowing
this was going to be the right partners to take
this to the screen. Sure enough it was, and we

(08:11):
did a real beautiful job of you know, as Mark described,
of bringing the you know, keeping the baseball involved, but
bringing the essence of those families and those stories and
really what's happening alongside of that. So the partnerships was perfect.
Mark was the man for the job. This is you know,
this has been my baby since the since the beginning,

(08:32):
so it's been incredible to kind of see it all
blossom out together.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, and Jake, then I do have to ask you,
and I know you've you've talked about this and it
really comes out on the screen, but just hearing it
directly from you, how did their presence, Charlie and Baylor,
how did their presence really impact this team in the
dug out there?

Speaker 2 (08:54):
You know, it's funny how it's a unique way to
tell the story as through the ens of someone who
actually played on the teams too. So that's why I
was so excited. You know, I had so many inside
looks perspectives of what was really happening and missed all
this so for us, you know, in twenty ten, every

(09:14):
you know, I think the Baylor Teel story was got
pretty wide known around Columbia, which is which is going
to be great for so many people to relive it
and to remember and to see really all what happened
around that story and what made it so incredible to
a family that was die Harder's grew up die hard
game box, you know, so it was magical, you know,
you see, you know, the teams are writing BT on

(09:36):
the hat. That truly meant something. You know, there's a
line in the film, you know, Coach Holbrook talks about
seeing twenty one year old kids in the emotions, the feeling,
and how real it was and how impactful it actually
was to see, you know, this kid and to have
a different sort of perspective. You know, it wasn't so
much about oh my gosh, we're so worried if we're
going to win this game. It was more about just

(09:56):
going and loving playing the game for Baylor and having fun.
That on the other side of that was the Peters family,
where you know, then in the next year, Charlie's actually
able to be in our dugout, in our literally in
our eyes, in our face. Here's the living example of
the life and the overcoming of such hardship.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
You know.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Ray Tanner talks about how in the dugout, in some
of the most intense moments in the games, he should be,
you know, sort of worried thinking about, oh, oh man,
what's about to happen in this you know, especially the
scenes we were in, right, those crazy jams that you
should just knock it out of. Yeah, got out of
them over and over and over again. Ray Tanner talks about, oh,

(10:37):
there's Charlie literally next to me in the dugout and
offering a very cool, easy comfort and perspective of there's
a lot more happening outside of baseball here and life
and everything's really okay, and look what we're actually at
and then boom, we were able to play at our
highest levels.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah. He is a producer Jake Williams, and we're also
talking with director Mark Kinderman, and you can check out
the SEC story documentary in Spirit, which debuts on the
SEC Network Wednesday, May fourteenth at seven pm in celebrating
the South Carolina's back to back national championships in twenty
ten and twenty eleven. That magical run but also even

(11:15):
more magic with the two heroes that were part of
that team. And they'll always be remembered, all right, So Mark,
I do have to ask you as Jake was just
talking about Ray Tanner. One of the things that I
think come across that did come across here is that
we know that Ray Tanner has a somewhat of a
pravado I mean, tough as nails type of coaching style,

(11:37):
and Jake, you obviously know that you played for him,
but you were able to pull out some of this
softer side of Ray Tanner where he connected with you know,
Charlie and Baylor and even the opportunity of going to
the children's hospital there in Omaha and all of that.
So how was how were you able to do that
when you were sitting down and interviewing with him.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
You know, I had a little bit of a pre
his relationship with him because I'd interview him for the
Skip Bertman Show, yeah, back twenty nineteen, and you know,
I think he at least had some familiarity with me.
But it was certainly a story he wanted to tell
and wanted to get out there that you know, he'd seen,

(12:19):
you know, what Chad Holbrook had done with the Keel family,
and obviously Canner was close to him too, and then
he had his own bond going back you know to
four with with you know, the Peters family. Yes, and
those were things that he wanted to talk about, and
you know, his wife Karen wanted to talk about and

(12:41):
they were eager to do so. And you know, I
think it brought him a lot of joy.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, And I think there's something to be said about
that when you see a different side of some of
these personalities, and I think sometimes they might have things
bottled up, they do want to get out. And Jake,
did you feel that from not only coach Tanner, but
even Coach Holbrook and the other players that that's why
one of the reasons why you wanted to have this

(13:09):
story told is because there impacted so many people and
they also wanted to be able to share those emotions.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah. I felt that. And and these these interviews were
such a fun time one for all reliving of course
the baseball stuff, but too just seeing how pointing and
how impactful and really each each different character had it
in a different way. Yes, you know, so it was
so fun to hear the you know, I mean, I
believe we did close to sixty interviews for this film,

(13:36):
so you know, to hear almost sixty perspectives of Baylor,
and you know the same for Charlie and the same
for all these plays and how it went down, and
you know, you know, take out Charlie and Baylor just
for a second, is you know how many other people
had impactful stories. I mean, these weren't the first championships
for the game compulation, you know, and how many different
stories we heard along the way of how much this

(13:59):
truly touched people and families and how it brought together
so many and so yeah, it was just incredible to
be able to hear all these to relive them, to
kind of you know, to to now bring them to
screen and to and to see the magic of how
it all actually happened. It's been really incredible.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, no question, the chicken curse, it's over right in
no more, Yes, that's right. And obviously following that up
in twenty eleven. All right, So Mark, I have to
ask you then, in terms of individuals that you wanted involved,
obviously based on some conversations you're having with Jake and

(14:35):
but to have a Ryan McGee, to have you know,
a Darius Rucker, were there other individuals that you wanted
to have involved or why did you choose some of
these personalities?

Speaker 3 (14:47):
I think we got about everyone we wanted to get
in the show. I mean, you know the one anybody
I think who said no. You know, with Darius, you know,
it was just a matter of scheduling. It's not like
he's sitting there waiting, you know, but he does so
much with ESPN. That's just a matter of can you
find twenty thirty minutes? And you know, and you know,

(15:10):
we're fortunate that Travis Haney, who wrote two wonderful books
on these teams. You know, also, you know, lives in Nashville.
We did. You would think we'd do Daris Rutgers, South Carolina.
We did down in Nashville where he's got a place
as well. Ryan McGhee I have known since nineteen ninety four,

(15:32):
you know, we were production assistants at ESPN together long
in Bristol, long ago and far away. And he's got
his own, you know, college baseball book, and there's no
one I trust more talking about college baseball than Ryan McGee.
So that was that was just a matter of hopping
on text with it, and he said, what do you
need when you need it?

Speaker 1 (15:51):
I love it and I think there's something again to
be said that they wanted to be involved in telling
this story in multiple ways. That is Mark Kinderman direct.
And we're also talking with producer Jake Williams of the
SEC story documentary In Spirit that debuts on the SEC
Network Wednesday, May fourteenth at seven pm, again celebrating the

(16:11):
South Carolina game Cocks National Baseball championships back to back
in twenty ten and twenty eleven. But again two unlikely
heroes that were a big part. And that's one of
the things that I think is so important about the story.
And you guys have talked about it a little bit,
but Jake, I'm just curious from your standpoint the emotions

(16:34):
that you guys bring out on the screen and as
I'm watching it, I'm tearing up, I'm crying. So you
were able to pull that from a viewer like me.
How important was that for you not to emphasize just
on the success of the team, but really bring everybody
back to the heart of these two kids that were

(16:55):
battling cancer and unfortunately Baylor Teal passed away. Being able
to capture that type of emotion, well, I.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Appreciate such a question. You know, what happened for me
was along the way and I've mentioned this before, but
you know, yes, we were aware as the team. On
the team, we were aware of these stories of these boys.
I mean, here's Charlie and the dugout, Baylor's thrown out
the first pitch. We were aware, we weren't aware of
the real depths of what was happening. To find out

(17:25):
these kids should have died over and over and over,
you know how sick Baylor really was. You know what
I felt along the way is upon taking this story on,
was that now it was a responsibility placed in my
hands to do proper justice to Baylor, to the Teals
as a family, to Charlie Peters and what they went

(17:45):
through and to and for that to be a scope
for all these kids who are going through cancers and
these families and not just cancer but so many different
you know, horrific childhood diseases and what that does to families,
and you know, not not just immediate but outside. I mean,
we had grandparents involved, we had nurses and doctors, so

(18:06):
so many people get involved with this, you know, and
to see that today the impact Baylor Kiel still has,
it's incredible. So that all along, which I also could
appreciate and Mark was at the forefront, was to keep
that narrative happening in the best ways, and to keep
that magic afloat and to make everyone see how you know,
pointing it really was and if you know, it wasn't

(18:28):
just you know, some initials on a hat. It went
a whole lot.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Deeper than that, no question. And Mark, I know you've
said about the documentary in Spirit is about bravery in
the face of overwhelming challenges. So how do you hope
this story inspires viewers who also might be facing their
own battles.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
You know, what I hope they can take from it
is that they've got support. Especially that's that's number one
thing you think about the way these two teas supported
these two families, and that you know, hopefully for families
that are facing this now that they can find you know,

(19:09):
doesn't have to be a baseball team, doesn't have to
be an athletic team at all, but they can find
that their own group that you know, has their back.
And it's amazing what you can do, you know, and
where you can go when you have that kind of support.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, there is something to be said about the support.
And I think too many times we forget that sports
is life, and life is sports and you know, you
can lean on those individuals from a team perspective, and Jake,
you lived it there with that team, but also have
to as much as there is the story about the

(19:45):
unsung heroes, but also Jake, it is still crazy the
dominant performance for South Carolina in those two years when
you're talking twenty two consecutive postseason wins and twelve straight
of those wins were in the World Series. So how
much do you attribute that, Hey, there was just something,
as you talked about, God touched us in a certain

(20:07):
way with these two kids, that we should have not
had some of those victories.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yes, you know, it's it was a miraculous run and
what we have some of you know, someone like Ryan
McGee and a few others saying, Tommy Moody saying, you know,
this is one of the great runs in a last
fifty plus years of any sport. And it's so the
dominance of the baseball was there. And you know what's

(20:35):
funny about that is it was a team during the seasons.
You know, we were a top five team, you know,
but we were on paper underdogs, you know, which is
kind of funny to think about. But in a lot
of these games, were quote unquote underdogs even as defending
national champions. So so there was always sort of a

(20:55):
chip on our shoulders as a team of hey, we
got to keep doing this, We got to keep going
and going. But the team itself was it was a
wonderful group of guys, quirky guys. Ray Tanner had finally
come into you know, a new sort of wave of
coaching to allow some looseness, yes, some lightness from the
guys in which allowed them to reach their highest levels.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know, it's funny how Ray Tanner's evolution as a
coach the evolution of the school's successes and ultimate national championships.
But you know, again, the dominance of the players was
was truly something the jams we got out of over
and over and over again for two years. It's hard
to find any more runs where that just happened, you know,

(21:36):
And for them, you know, we went deep into games
where seemingly it was just meant to be for us,
no matter who the ball was hit to, the play
was going to be made, the pitch was going to
be made, someone was going to find it. And you know,
the teams now stand as one of the great in
college history.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
No question, and those teams had some swagger when you're
talking about Jackie Bradley Junior and Scott Wingle in yourself, Jake,
you know, so there's definitely something to be said.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
You look back and there's since then, I mean, ten
plus guys have made the Major League went on to
become World Series champions, All Stars, Gold Glove winners, So
you know, we weren't necessarily average Jows. I mean, the
SEC is a real thing, but yeah, it's just every
direction of the story has some incredible stuff happening.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, and as a Clemson grad, it's sometimes tough for
me to remember those runs that you've had and continued,
there's no question, but I do love the story in itself.
Just again from a story stelling storytelling perspective, you guys
have captured everything and brought the emotions and just the feeling,

(22:41):
you know, to that. So Mark and Jake, I can't
thank you enough. I commend you both for being able
to pull this together. And it's absolutely fantastic timing fifteenth
anniversary of the first championship in twenty ten, so why
not have this and we greatly appreciate you guys jumping
on board here and allowing us to dive in a

(23:02):
little bit more behind the scenes of this great documentary
in Spirit.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Thank you, gentlemen, Thank you, yes, thank you so much
guys for having us. It's a genuine treat. And you know,
I know Mark and Mark and I together we were
kind of a for me a first timer and Mark
of season vet, we were a power force and you know,
we were real happy to bring this to the screen for.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Everybody, yes, no question and everybody. All you Game TALP
fans and even just sports fans, you will be entertained. Reminder,
The SEC Story documentary In Spirit debuts on SEC Network Wednesday,
May fourteenth at seven pm, celebrating the back to back
national championships in twenty ten and twenty eleven with the

(23:41):
Game Cops baseball team, but two unlikely heroes. You don't
want to miss that. Make sure you check that out,
put it on your calendar.