What's Next For Moses Itauma? Recapping Saudi/DAZN PPV! UFC/Parmount/CBS/Zuffa Discussion!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
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(01:05):
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(01:28):
so hope everybody's doing Okay, we will start with the
recap from that Sadi card Man Moses took care of
business and as I warned people about and saying, hey, dude,

(01:51):
like just cal him down. Don't match him against Usik
just yet. Okay, that includes you turn Well, that's the
most important person in this one. Let's not get out
of hand just yet. Let the young fella develop. Okay,

(02:14):
he's got a fair amount of names in the top ten.
He's now entered the top ten. Okay. Dillion White was
a fringe Top tenor right fringe contender. He showed up
in great shape in Million White, but it just didn't
Now could you say it was an early stoppage? Okay, sure,

(02:35):
but you know, I don't know. I mean, like I said,
you could have let it keep going. But he wasn't
looking good, to be honest with you, at Homi Atoma Itema,
No that that doesn't that's not right. Yeah, he did.

(02:56):
He did the job. So we're gonna talk about that
and whether it's winners or losers. What's next so we'll
get into some of that and then we're gonna preview.
It's a light weekend. It's like a Dezone weekend. I'm
not saying all the fights, but it's like I swear
it's like four maybe five. I think it's five, four

(03:19):
or five events that they got going on this weekend.
We didn't get to talk to John last week. We
had that conversation about the Ali Act two point zero
is what I what I like. I like that name
better than the name they're trying to use. Maybe we'll
have a little follow up on that maybe, you know,

(03:43):
I'd like to get his thoughts on the paramount deal
with Dana White in the UFC, just to see what
he thinks. Also some thoughts on Ortiz Lubin. Sounds like
that's gonna be a done deal, like specially now that
Lubin and Bachrahm didn't didn't do the person, but it

(04:08):
sounds like both of them have a fight it. Get
his thoughts on some other rumored fights in fifty four,
like Frondor and Thurman. You know, I just kind of
I just kind of talked about it a little bit
last week, and I thought stylistically, as we know styles
make fights. I really think that Thurman it's gonna test

(04:31):
his legs, and obviously it's gonna test his body. No pause,
I'm not positive on that one. He's gonna his body.
He's gonna get tested. Fundora is gonna okay, I'm gonna
sty I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna stop. It's not gonna
be this wash them. I don't think Thurman is what.

(04:53):
Thurman's not washed? Now his legs? Can they hold up
for twelve rounds? Eh? That's what I don't know. Stylistically, counterpunching, potshots, jabbing, timing, movement, defense,
all that, dude, that it really lines up with Thurman.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
In that fight.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
In my opinion. I'm not saying, oh, dude, ten to two,
I'm not saying that, but he can win that fight.
But I would like to get his thoughts on it,
beyond the fact that it's on pay per view obviously, which,
like I said, it's not ideal. Let's just hope they
stack the card. I think we get what a two
month break something like that, two months without a pay

(05:37):
for you Holy shit, that feels good, doesn't it. And
then you know, of course current fight news there is
some some murmurs out there about Aero Spence Jervonte, YadA, YadA, YadA,
and then you know boxing Twitter. We always got to
throw in a boxing Twitter items. I should say so, right,

(06:03):
Ford Abraham Nova. This fight was actually on YouTube, So
if you're trying to attract on one hand, at least
you put it, I guess free on YouTube, right, I guess.
I guess you could say that to attract a US market.
But when it's like twelve thirty Central time, I don't

(06:26):
know about all that. I was a little surprised. But
then maybe because it was Nova instead of Kakachi, you know,
maybe that played into it. I did not realize he'd
be that early, but you know, I thought, I thought

(06:48):
ray Ford came out the handspeed right away was given.
Abraham Nova issues that that was evident, Like right off
the bat sharper puncher, he had his jab going, was
countering with the left hand. But you know, I would

(07:10):
say Ford probably as the fight went on, moved a
little bit more than I expected at times. And then Nova,
although I thought it was a clean victory, the fight
got really sloppy right and Nova had, you know, at times,

(07:31):
had his head in Ford's chest, kept pushing forward, working
the body. Definitely very competitive. I thought he had limited success.
The success he did have, though, is when he had
Ford on the ropes, like I said, head in the
bot in his chest, just going to town. Other times

(07:53):
he was smothering his work and he just got sloppy
and there was a lot of tie ups and all that.
But overall, definitely, in my opinion, a clean victory, but
a sloppy, sloppy fight for Ford in in Nova, both
of them. Hopefully Kakachi's next, you know, like he was

(08:14):
talking shit after the fight and maybe that, you know,
that's just the build to the next fight or for
them to fight, because obviously they already signed the contracts,
the fight was on. So my thing is talking ship's
kind of funny when when you pulled out. I'm not
saying he pulled out because he's you know, he's faking it,
but it's just it's just strange to me to to

(08:37):
talk shit, but you pulled out, like, I don't know, Now,
it's all good if the fight is next. If the
fight's next, then cool. If they never fight, then you're
just talking shit, you know, I don't know, but that's
that's where the fight that that should be the fight
on paper, by far, it was the close he matched.

(09:01):
It was that by far, odds wise, the closest. That
was the fight I was actually looking forward to, like
that was the most anticipated fight. And I think I
just mentioned it. Styles make fights. I do think that
would even that be just as competitive, probably more competitive,
but it would be more of a firefight. I like

(09:21):
that fight. So that's where I go. Nova just a
solid fighter man, and he for the most part did
pretty good. Like I said, he had success. He was
very competitive and even within the rounds, but I did
think Ford clearly won. Then you got Hergavic and Idoleine.

(09:43):
You know, Andy Lee said that one of the best
heavyweights over the last five years.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
That's how we described Hergovic, one of the best. Like
that tells me you're like top two, top three, so
in the last five years.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Come on, dude, what are we doing? Anyway? I thought
Hergovic won the first two rounds with you know, basically
with the jab, the you know. In the second round though,
in a few other good lands in there, Hergovic got

(10:21):
what was it his right eye that came open, that
cut open. It was a pretty bad cut. They took
care of it, though I did like some of the
body work early as well.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Adeline.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
I think it was a like a jab, like an
up jab that opened it up. And then in the
second Adeline, I believe it was like a left hook
or something that to me, that was or the third
I mean that that was a close, close one. I
gave her Hergovic the fourth and the fifth right hands

(10:57):
to the body in the head, just landing the better shots. Overall,
Adeline started to kind of gas and tie up. By
the time it was midway through this fight, he was
on the ropes more and more and like fourth, fifth, sixth,
something like that. And there was even a moment where

(11:19):
he took a deep, deep breath, so he knew that
he was in trouble. And you know, sorry about that.
What the hell, I just realized something. Okay, sorry, seventh round,
you know, beyond a few really good shots landed by Adeline,

(11:43):
nice left hooks, I think it was that was probably
his best shot of the or you know, punches of
the whole fight. I still thought that Hergovic was landing
really well. Now a right hand landed really really hard
for Hergovic.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
And.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
You know, there was a moment where after that Adeleine
you know, was like sticking his tongue out and screaming,
and then proceeded to get dropped. But to his credit,
he did get up in the last minute. Both of
them looked tired, you know, but he did flurry back.

(12:26):
So the eighth round was a really really fun round.
I gotta, I gotta give it to him, and then
you know, it just it. Basically the fight was pretty
much over after that. Adeleine, I thought he could have
done more. There were just too many times where he

(12:48):
was holding, and some of that was his gas tank,
but just holding, holding, holding, and then I don't know,
I just I don't think it seemed like when he
was letting his hands go that he you know, he
was doing his thing. But I don't know, I just
thought he could have done more. I really did, I think, Adeline.
I'm not saying he was a no show, because, like

(13:10):
I said, when he got dropped, he did, you know,
land some really good shots, and I'd say, like I
mentioned the left hook, obviously that jab that you know,
opened up the cut did a lot. But overall, I
thought he fell short. I thought that some of the
rounds were competitive, especially that eighth round, and I think

(13:32):
they were given more credit for the overall fight. But
then he deserved to be honest with you, because I
thought Adeline underperformed just taking those little sequences in that
last minute, the eighth and the third and in some
other rounds. I just thought that he could have done more.

(13:54):
He could have done more. I thought he fell short.
So Herkovic, you know, plenty of fights in the top ten,
a lot of fighters to mix it up in the
top ten overall. So I'm not gonna say an exact
name what's next, but but you know, plenty of names
for him, so hopefully he gets one of them. Adelaine,

(14:16):
you know, back to the drawing board, I guess. So,
Sue me. He he the body shots right off the
bat body shots. First knockdown I think was in what
the second round. The second knockdown was like a three

(14:37):
punch combo knocked him down, then two right hand, two
left hook knocked him down again and it was over.
So Sue me, I like this kid, I really do.
I did get some messages saying, hey, why didn't you
uh preview his fight? That's fair, But the reason why

(15:01):
I didn't, I just didn't think you know, I did.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
I thought it'd be more like recap and say, hey,
this guy's this guy's really good. I like what I saw,
but I just didn't see reason to break that fight down.
Now you could say, I guess right. You could say
that the main event wasn't much of a fight, but
it is the main event, you know, So you're correct.

(15:27):
I didn't break that fight down, but and I didn't
mention it. That is fair. But honestly, I just I
was just gonna save it for the recap and be like,
this dude is a beast man. I really like him.
I really really like him, and he's better than his brother.
That's not saying I'm not even trying to shortcut him

(15:48):
like that, but so assumeing dude, this dude's good. He's
on a very high level, and he took care of business.
So my apologies to the person you know that messaged me,
but that that's just why I didn't do it, because
I just didn't think there was much in that fight.
To be honest with you, but like I said, you

(16:10):
could make the argument of the main event, it wasn't
much in that fight either. But of course I was
gonna talk about that more, Nick Ball, Sam Goodman. Goodman
performed all right, Man, this was a good good I
shouldn't even say all right. I thought he was very
very good. I gave Ball the first round. Then I

(16:33):
thought Goodman won the second and third. The jab making
a miss, the slight little movement, the left hooks to
the or the left hands to the body, sometimes the hook,
sometimes the straight left. I had him have a you know,
I had him with the lead, and then you know,
even like the fourth round, really really close. I you know,

(16:57):
I gave it to Goodman the fourth. I thought that
Goodman started out that well. Then an overhand right early
in the fifth by Ball, and Ball also started laying
his jab better than like two to three punch combos,
the jab hooks overhand more overhand rights by Ball. I

(17:20):
thought that was the sixth round, seventh round, very close,
very close. Could have went either way. I did give
the eighth and ninth to Goodman. He was I thought
he was standing in his ground more in those fights,
and just kind of busier, you know, a couple of
a couple of nice right hands by Ball. But overall

(17:44):
I did think Ball in the ninth or yeah, the
tenth sorry. The tenth and eleventh I gave him. I
gave him those two rounds, the two. The eleventh was
definitely oh, I'm sorry, hold on, I was at the ninth.
I gave him the I gave ball the tenth eleve. Yeah,
I said that right. I thought he landed better shots,

(18:04):
you know, whereas in the eighth and ninth, just cleaner
lands throughout the round. And like I said, he started
standing in his ground more and then much like the seventh,
I thought the twelfth was really close. And you know,
the one eighteen one ten, I mean, what the fuck
are we watching? Like? There's always just one card, And honestly,

(18:29):
you could probably say the same thing about the one
seventeen one eleven. One card had at one fifteen one
thirteen seven to five ball that works six five one.
But the the ten to two stuff, I did not
see a ten to two. I didn't even see a
nine to three. I mean, I'm looking at the second,

(18:50):
the third, the eighth, and the ninth. Those are those
four rounds. I thought those are clean. Those are four
rounds right there, uh for good men. So I feel
like the fight kind of overperformed from what I thought
it would be I thought Goodman might be a little

(19:13):
too defensive, and I guess you could make you know
the point at times he was, But overall I thought
he got a good start and he was fighting pretty good,
and you know, so Goodman. I wouldn't even say back
to the drawing board too much, to be honest with you,

(19:35):
I would say, oh, I see John pop up here,
Just be a second here, John, So yeah, I just
think that, uh, I think that Ball, you know, get
him in a big fight, man, get him in a
big fight. You know they're talking about any way, Like,

(19:55):
let's just let's make the Knakatani fight, dude, But I
know it's not gonna happen till next year. And by
the way, it better happened next year side note, because
they said it was gonna happen this year. So if
we can't get it next year, what the path? But Ball,
would that be a good fight for any way to
come up? You know, sure, Okay, that's fine, But like,

(20:21):
then does Nakatani have to come up to featherweight? Then
twenty six is not the biggest jump, But like, are
you gonna hang out and wait for Knakatana or wait, yeah,
Nakatani you're gonna, I hope so. But Ball, you know,
he's a fun fighter to watch, but I still think

(20:43):
he has its limits power, wildness with him, with his punches.
I'm gonna go ahead and get him in here real quick.
There we go. John will be popping in here in
just a second. And so yeah, I think I think

(21:07):
Ball there's plenty of fights for him, and uh you know,
it's it's time to uh to get him back in
a in a really really fifty to fifty fight. But
Goodman over performed. I thought he played pretty good. Hey,
what's going on?

Speaker 2 (21:20):
John? How we doing first? How's a gallon?

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Not bad?

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Man?

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Not bad?

Speaker 2 (21:24):
How are you good? Good? Can you see? Can you
see me here?

Speaker 1 (21:28):
I can't see you? I mean, of course I can
see the.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yeah, I thought that. That's why I'm just checking here
because we can fix that so.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
I can see the beautiful shot with the hills.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's my my We're not wanting to
be seen sight, but that's not what we're looking for
right now.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Let's see.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
But yeah, Ball Ball, Uh you know Nick Ball is
uh when he really gets Hey, there we go.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
That's right, That's where I thought we were. But I wasn't.
So Okay, there we go. I got you, I got you.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Let me look at the hat.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
Okay, got my Rockman Lewis too from Bega.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
I like to break some stuff out.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
Yeah, I love it from the collection as you know
here and there over the weeks. But so Rockman Lewis
too from Mandalay Bay.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Man, that's in good shape too. Wow.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah this one.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
When I put this one on today, this one's in
better shape than some of them. But remember remember the night.
Remember the night, Well that's when that's when Lewis got
his revenge.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yes exactly. Yeah, that man Lewis twice was just like
this close to like breaking through and then then came back.
But then he it was nice to see how his
career ended just on the up and up, you know
what I mean, And he kind of came to fruition
of like.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
I guess you.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Could say somewhat potential anyway, because I think he could
have done more in a sense like fight guys maybe
closer to their prime when he got the name, but
he took care of business and you know, even the
Holy Field thing was weird, right, But it was just
nice to finally see him hit his his peak and

(23:14):
really show what he was about, you know.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
Yeah, And it's funny because in in the time probably
really not probably, but my life when I was taken
in the most big fights in person, it coincided with
with Lewis being on his run at the top. So
I was not at the fight where he got upset
by Rockman, because you know, it was in South Africa,

(23:39):
Cape Town in South Africa. But you know, a lot
of his other major ones I was at. You know,
I was at the first holy Field fight in the Garden,
saw him fight too, saw him fight Rockman, and then
it happened when then you know, he was working his

(23:59):
way towards the top. I was at his fight with
Mercer in the in the Garden too ninety six, which
was a real good, underrated fight. I thought, I thought,
you know, Lewis did win it, but a lot of
people thought Mercer.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah. Yeah, I thought Lewis won too, but it was
it was good.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yeah, that was a good fight.

Speaker 4 (24:17):
So yeah, just uh, I saw him fight Grant and
the Garden. You know, it's like it was all these
Lennox Lewis fights, but those were the big fights at
the time. You know, that was a good. That was
a good HBO run for boxing. You know, you really
look back and you know the not in hindsight, you know,

(24:37):
historians do agree. I mean, after the seventies heavyweight era
really and I didn't realize it even at the time
when I was going to all these but you know,
the nineties heavyweights probably the second best era of all time.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Didn't quite
realize it. And it got funky because Tyson went to
jail and all this stuff. But like when you added
up Rinnick Bow, like when you added up right, like,
those are some you know, it's it. That was really good.
And you know they got a lot of fights between
everybody too right away too memorable fights fricking Stick and

(25:13):
Jeb and exactly a lot of memorable fights.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
I mean, you know the fights involved in you know,
you know, look look at got to give Rick Bow credit.
I mean, look look at five look at five fights,
because you know, people, you know, he was always knocked
as not living to his potential. But then look at
look at the great fights he was involved in. I mean,
I always like to think with BO and this is nineties.
I mean, think of five fights combined with three with

(25:40):
holy Field, in the two with Galaa. I mean those
are some those are some memorable wars man. And that's
what took a lot out of the guy.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
I mean exactly.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
That wasn't not but getting taken out of him because
not living up to his potential there that was five
brutal fights.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
You could say he didn't hold his potential great because
of the Waiter or whatever, but he reached his potential,
you know.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
Yeah, and then you know, Lewis was in a lot.
You know, Lewis, you know, ended up having a great run.
He ended up beating every man he's ever fault because
he got revenge against Paul and he got revenge against Rockman.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
But I know what you're.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
Saying, like what what sometimes people now forget about Lewis,
even though we enjoyed going to all those big fights
of his, was you know, like even though they gave
him credit in the first holy Field fight.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
That was that I that you know, I was at.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
You know, he really didn't he really didn't look good
and and you know he got a benefit of the
doubt in the rematch with holy Field because everybody was saying,
oh the draw was fight and you really look at
that second fight.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, I mean Lewis got a lot.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
Of benefit of doubt on the scorecardist, but still the
run he went on and you know he only you know,
he beat beat both guys he lost to and the
other thing.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
I think he is getting starting to get credit for
this now.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
And when you look at his whole career, even though
it doesn't seem like it, when you think he thought
a heavyweight, you really do have to think hard about it.
I Mean, the only two times he was down was
in the two losses, one time to McCall and one
time to Rockman. Guy was not missus heavyweight. I was
not down you know the rest of his career, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
And at least he took care of business when he
fought Tyson. Yeah, I mean he handled that fight like
it was supposed to be handled, you know.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, he got it done and he blew out Ruddick.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
I mean that was that was really you know then
some people were high and some people were and I
was still wondering that that was the first fight that
jumped out at you for with him, that really really
jumped out.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
I always questioned him, so it was my us biasness.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Oh yeah, there was different that we still had some heavyweight,
so right, you were like, I don't know, and.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
I finally gave his dude like okay, okay, you know,
but but it just, you know, I always I kind
of felt for him because it was he was right
there and then he gets starched, you know, and you're like, oh,
you know, but after a while you just couldn't couldn't
help but to be like, wow, this guy's come back
from all this stuff, and like I said, he got

(28:22):
to hit his peak and so he turned out to
be a great fighter, you know.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
Yeah, And plus I don't think he got I don't
even think he got enough credit for his finale and
against Fiddley Clitchko, because yes, Clitchgo was giving him a
lot of trouble.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Remember my son was little.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
And he was enthralled by that fight because that was
just two huge guys. He was watching bag and I
was like, Dad, look at this, and I was like,
I know, but he does get enough credit because yeah,
Clitchko was giving him some moments and it was tough,
but you know, Lewis ended up busting him up.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
I mean it was like Alwa's pisses me off so
many times. If it wasn't for that.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Eye was he was busted aboup.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
I mean like he was headbutting him and that's why
his eye was like that.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
You know, he was just banging him with right hands.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
Then you know he was fine in the range and
he was he was dropping bombs on him, you know
when he got his rhythm and you know, of course
it was a bad cut, but it was from taking
It was from Lewis.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
A bunch of head butts, you know, that was that
was But he was smart.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
You know, it was a good it was good ended on.
But I think he because Viddye Flitch went on a
good run after exactly and it was a good you know.
So the era, the era is looking really good in hindsight.
And one thing I was saying, this guy wrote for
k L a little bit at the time. This was

(29:44):
you know, because this could even give people social media history.
I mean, you know, and this was in the nineties.
You know, ao L had those chat boards. There was
like a there was a boxing one that would be
the equivalent of life. We're on X now, yeh know,
Twitter and X. It was like what the equivalent of

(30:05):
that would have been and I remember as a guy
that wrote part time young guy, but he wrote part.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Time for Ko magazine to May.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
I'm actually crediting him here to May a nice guy too,
And he was on there and he was real politely
saying it like I was like, again, some with us
bias and then then you're thinking of some of the
bias of like having lived through the seventies guys. And
this was early on in the nineties when the Heavy
Eights it was just starting to form, like we're talking,

(30:34):
but you hadn't really seen how good it was yet.
He but he called it. I was like a lot
of these guys aren't that good, And he's like, I
don't know, Let's see how this plays out. You know,
if you really look at who's in the top ten, now,
this might play out well. And he was absolutely right,
like he played out as the second best air of

(30:56):
all time. Like at that time, even though I didn't
think it was a good era, I was talking about
some of the Homes era guys like, oh, you know
they were better than some of these guys. Well, it
turned out like outside of Larry Holmes himself, like the
nineties era was you know, it was better I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Well Witherspoon did you know, Yeah, he did revive you know,

(31:19):
so he made a case there. I mean, but that's
the other side of the coin. I mean, a guy
like Witherspoon revived himself. He had a good run for
a while there in.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
The nineties eighties, like the bridge of bridging the gap.
You know, it was like to kind of rebuild up,
but there's still good I mean Holmes, you know, like
I don't care what happened in that Tyson fight, Holmes,
damn good fighter.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Well then Holmes revived himself and yeah, he ended up
being part of the nine. That's weird is Holmes and
Foremen great guys from the other eras right, they revived
themselves and became part of the Great nineties era.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
But that's what's so cool about it too, is like
that is part of the greatness of the era is
you had a revived Foreman and a revived Home as
legit top ten guys and Infeman winning the Linear in
ninety four.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
So you know, yeah, my uh, my dad and his
buddies when we'd be watching fights as really young, he
would they would all call me homes randomly as like
my little nickname until Tyson came around. The younger guys like,
hold on, I don't want that nickname anymore. I got
my guy Mike, you know. Oh yeah. And you know

(32:30):
it's fitting obviously that we're having this conversation because we
now have a young future guy who does look the part,
not just because of this fight, but looks the part.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
That's what I figured. It's a good it's a good
timing for it.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, exactly. And you know, this last run for the
last decade, let's say, you know, it had entertainment. We
did get some really good fights out of it. We
had some upsets, the We's upset of aj like he had,
the Usak Joshua fights. Both those are good fights, you know,

(33:02):
like we had a lot. It was like it kind
of just mustered up a competitiveness and it made me
appreciate it more than the CLIs than the the or
Vladimir klitch go era.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
That's exactly the way I see it. I see it
was really high, but it was fun. You know.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
Now I see that to this and I see this
era and really Usak topping it off kind of makes
the case even better for that. True this that's the
way exactly the way I see it. This era right
last ten years or so is a good way of
looking at it. It's settling down because because now we
are reaching the end of this era. I mean, that's

(33:41):
kind of clear with the ages of who was a
factor and where they're at in their career. You know,
Ushik hasn't slipped yet, but he's thirty eight nobody, so you.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Know we're nearing the end of this era.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
He's proven to be the best guy of it too,
so you know that's worth noting.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
But I I've to the same conclusion.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
You know, you can make the case for the Vlad
and vitally being better than these guys, and we are
at a point where you can make the case that
Usak's better than those two. If you want to make
that case, you can make it. It's not I don't
think it's concrete yet, but but I feel the same
way I do feel it was. It's entertainment, definitely, and

(34:24):
I think beyond entertainment, I feel the depth of this
era is is better than that Clitch goes deeper than I.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Thought as the time when you know went on, like
you said, with Usak topping it off, it is deeper
and funner. You know, it was just fun. People nowadays
just get stuck into like sometimes it's just like enjoy
the damn fights, Like why do we have to rank everything?

(34:52):
Why do we have to know this is to have
a big debate about something that just like when Husak,
you know, just got done dispatching the bamb for the
second time and they're trying to rank this guy's like
crazy high. It's like, dude, why don't you just respect Usik?
Like why do we have to do all this shit?

Speaker 2 (35:08):
You know?

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Yeah, I saw a credible article today. I'm trying to
think of what context it was. It was also addressing
something else, but it wasn't. But I always look as
a legitimate site or source, not it was like a
legitimate site, your source, And I think I know what
it was. It was a legitimate size site or source.
And they were talking about Dubois having the trainer switch.

(35:31):
But then it said in the same article and I'm like,
I can't believe I'm even repeating this the guy had
in the article and it was I'm trying. It was
a credible It was a credible source. Yeah that you know.
Of course, of course you can make the case though,
that Dubois just lost to the best ever and the

(35:51):
guy was serious, and I'm like, dude, what the best ever?
You know, look, there's only one way you even and
this is not what they're saying, and this is why
it's screwed up. And back to what we said a
few weeks ago. The only case you can make for
that is, yes, you're trying to say, like the literal

(36:12):
who he beats too, and you think Usik just in
modern training and all that, because of that, he beats everybody.
But that's not what these guys are talking every day sport.
But but they're not talking that way. They're talking like historically,
like he's the best ever. And I'm like, the guy,
he's got the real title that he just won against Fury,

(36:37):
and then he beat Fury in a rematch and he
beat u Boat.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
That makes him the best.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Ever, I mean, because when you're talking historical, that's what
you're looking at. You're not looking at this cruiserweight stuff much,
you know, a little bit, not much, you know, you're
not looking at all this alphabet stuff. Doesn't matter how
many alphabet bet belts he had. You know, he beat
the lineal guy Fury in a good fight. Then he
made a defense against Fury and he beat Dubois in

(37:05):
a rematch. I mean that makes you the best heavyweight ever,
like historically, that makes no sense.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
And like we said, a Coo westgo, you'd have to
have Fury like third best. Yeah, I mean they're not
willing to do that though, you know, it's like, well
it would have to be you'd have to be a
second or third if you're gonna say that he's the best.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
But you know, you're you know, that is a good point,
Chris and I hadn't thought about it that way, but
that's a damn good point, right. If he's the best ever, Yeah,
Fury's a top ten heavyweight of all time, then.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
You have to be high up there, top five at least,
because he doesn't put that many fights, you know, anyway
to to you know, on his resume. And it's not
just because we're actually saying something doesn't mean it's a
rip on Hoosik, because they don't do this like disrespect
what he's done, right, which is like phenomenal, you.

Speaker 4 (37:57):
Know, but when you're really evaluating it, Yes, highly ranked
guys in the legit top ten no debate about that
which counts. Don't get any wrong accounts. But with that understood,
this is where people get into that confusion. I mean,
as we sit here today, Joshua hasn't been lineal champ
for a day in his career, right, and you know
you really can't I mean, I don't think he should

(38:18):
be saying it doesn't matter in any of the traditional divisions,
especially but you know, you know, again, historical people will
tend to agree that even if you're not as crazy
about continuing with lineal, it matters that heavyweight. I mean,
your historian is going to say that because you know

(38:40):
it's not divided up by any junior.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Divisions basically and anything like that, even though you have
cruiser weight and trying to bridgeways it's not.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
Right, right, and you know, right, and then you know
usiks showing it the cruiser weight part, you know, I mean,
he's we moved up to heavyweight and then then he's
won it, So we're dealing in those terms. But you know,
to really to stretch to make the case for USIK
the best you can, you I mean, you just got

(39:09):
to say he beat a lot of legit contenders, because
if you if you look at his cruiserweight run. They
would have been heavyweights in the old days, and some
of those guys, like a like a breedist type or
a gasie have might have been they might have been
in the fringe of the top ten at heavyweight. So
you know, he's gaining a few more top ten, legit

(39:31):
top ten victories, but that's not enough to make you
the greatest of all time.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
I mean, well, I.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Guess you could go, you'd have to work per capita
with him, because if you say, well, he didn't have
many fights, so in those fights, you know, sure, you know,
I do per capita with Minnesota a lot, you know,
like about it, But overall, I just yeah, I don't
know what it is. But it just irks me. It's
like it totally takes away from him, right.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
But let me let me throw something instance, since it's
gonna fit and we're talking about it, it's a good fit,
so we can kind of get right to it in
that sense, because it's like, well, we talked a couple
of weeks ago, so a tauma. You know, I don't
I don't think this k over white really means anything.
Particularly odds makers, as we pointed out, not enough people did.

(40:23):
I mean, I pointed out again right before the fight.
I mean it was favored to be a first or
second round KO by the oddsmakers.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
No white and like great shape supposedly wait yees, you know.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
But you know he hadn't he hadn't been very active.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
But what I'm kind of getting what I'm getting to too,
since it's already been mentioned again and it's not ideal.
I mean, it might there might be too much of
an experienced gap. But you and I agree on this.
I think most people seem to be too Like you know,
Usik Parker doesn't do anything for me. I mean, it
just doesn't excite me unless Usick falls off a cliff.

(41:01):
Like I said, I don't give Parker any shot. Like
the Autama things got an air of like mystery, which
can sell a fight, you know, and sometimes contrary to
what people think, you think he might be this great
of a prospect. But prospect still is prospect, even though
now he's at like number ten, So like it's not

(41:22):
a certainty. Maybe you make more money, Maybe you do
make more money now by building this up. Yeah, yeah,
and you know this mystery mystery young guy? Is he
a phenom he's gonna fight usick husicks getting older.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
You kind of sell that aspect of it.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
What I'm kind of saying is like the Parker fight
to me, doesn't excite anybody. I think Caviel would be
a better challenge. I'm not saying I'm picking him to
beat Ustik, but the fight I've been saying for like
the last year, and people they don't like because they say, oh, no,
Parker deserves a shot and and uh, you know, why.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Would he do that?

Speaker 4 (41:57):
He saying that, and right, But I look at it
this way. What I because the fight I want to
see is like Parker and Cabel. Let then whoever wins
that be viewed as a more legitimate threat, which will
be the right, which will be the case right, and
Cabell is in his prime. I want to see Parker
against a not old guy. And yah, I've been saying

(42:20):
that for for you know, a couple of years. Ye
came here, right, and that you know, like that would
make and like to me, now with the Saudi factor,
like they can pay it, so like you know, I
don't think Parker frankly is gonna It's still gonna be
about money. Like if they say, hey, you know, we're
not gonna have you fight Usk right now, but we're

(42:42):
going to give you this exorbitant amount to fight Tabel
on a big card.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
We're gonna do. I think he takes it. I mean
so because you know, you know, he probably probably.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
To drop the belt thing again, be like, hell, you
want to belt, here's your belt and take your little belt,
you know, and fight for it. But really you're in
the fight, you know.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
And as much as I hate that, maybe that's the
way to do it. Like I hate that, but they could.
It's alphabets, alphabets do whatever they want, so for for
the fool for the fools that out there that need that. Yeah,
they could strip Usik of a belt and it have
Cabel fight Parker for And I hate that stuff.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
But there'll be an interim though, because Lusik did apply
for an injury something, so it'll probably be injured.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
It's just it's just absurd, like like they're they're they're
talking about du Bois too, you know, his camp, they're
talking with the Trader Change. They want him to be
two time heavyweight champ of the world, and I'm thinking
he wasn't even one time heavyweight champ in the world.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
They you know, I mean, how could he be champ
of the world when the champion of the world's got
to knock him out exactly twice? Now twice now, and
I saw something is going to do a damn thing.
That was a that was a bit of.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
A strange one because that three fight run revived the
guy's career. Now, granted, in this fight I criticized him
for it, like the part that and you know he's
taken a lot of heat that way, but it's from
fight from ex fighters too, like you know, the old
we know who six great, but like the old Dubois,

(44:13):
the old bad Dubois completely came out just the way
it ended, you know, the performance, you know, the look
of the mentality.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, so especially that.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Now he did have Charles trained him for that.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
But but Charles had him looking like a different guy
for three fights.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
So he didn't plan the pre party either.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Right, right, the pre party, I mean.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I guess that the pre party wasn't planned by the
by the coach.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
There, No, And there were some people speculating that that
this it's like him and his Dubois and his father.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Right that are getting ridd of Charles. But strange.

Speaker 4 (44:52):
It's kind of strange really, because all right, this was bad,
but Dubois had the three fight run. I mean, I'll
say it again, we want to advance. I mean, if
we know, we know it. It was an embarrassing obliteration.
But if I were Joshua, I'd roll the dice and think,
you know this, this might be a this guy might

(45:12):
be a somebody when I go on there in a
killer be killed situation to be dramatic, but it is
heavyweight boxing, and I just come out this time and
start start unloading some bombs right from the opening bell.
This dude might go, Yeah, this dude might go first,
you know, and it might happen.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
You know, it could go. It would still would be
something that could go either way to me.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
But I'm curious about that now, Like you know, if
Joshua gets in there and starts getting off.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Some bombs on Dubois early, he might get him out there.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
But yeah, and it was a fun fight, you know,
so yeah, that that might be. That might be they
might they might be able to that. I could see that.
I can see that. Just you know, there's not much
to talk about from the actual fight, right of course,
you know, the like the left hands and hooks to

(46:13):
the body. The fast hands were there. People were talking
about early stop it. It's like, okay, yeah, great, but
he was done. You know, I'm not worry now. If
he was in his prime or something, it had never
been knocked out, Okay, then then I would be like, hey, man,
let him, let him go a little bit more. But
you know, at this age and all that, the stoppa

(46:34):
should't bug me whatsoever. But let's just talk about Moses.
You know, whether it's Bakoli or ward Lee or Hergevic
or you know, there's names he can develop with before
just jumping because you know, of course, like we called
it's ousick next, let's do it. Well, let's just get
Let's not rush it though, you know, let the guy

(46:56):
fight and who's like is used to fighting once a
year or two in looking good like Mayweather used to.
So talk about Moses though, because the guy does have
a handspeed, he's got timing, he can counter. Well, where
are you at with him as a now, you know, contender?
I think you could call him a contender. He is prospect,

(47:16):
but he's like you said, he just moved in the
top top ten.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
Yeah, ring and tran and I agree with Transnational. You know,
in the voting on the board, I said, you know,
they proposed him at ten, which ended up being agreed upon.
Some people were against it, but I said, I'll take
him at ten, no higher but ten. And then I
saw the ring. The ring also you ten. So we
have a we have a non that's the year two

(47:41):
non alphabets, so we have a non alphabet consensus that
is number ten, which you can go on. Really, I
mean that's you know, that's not the alphabets. So, yeah,
he's just now he's entered the top ten at ten.
He's still brilliant, basically a prospect even though he's top ten.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, I'm you know, of course it's good that he's right.
They are getting a lot of people out of there
and stuff.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
I'm not down on them, but I'm not like, I'm
not as high on him yet as everybody else like.
To me, it's just the opposition at this point. And
I like to go on eye test. I probably like
to go on eye test more than a lot of people.
And I'm not saying I don't see some good things,
but for me, this level of opposition, I can't I

(48:30):
can't make a call.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
I don't feel I have a call yet on him. Now,
like some of these guys like you mentioned, they're they're
limited enough that you'd feel good about him likely beating them,
like Herkovic and uh, you know, Herkovics.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Just hasn't progressed to me.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
And now you know he's got the problem with the cuts,
you know, so he's vulnerable there. And we saw you know, heavyweight,
anybody can get hurt. You gotta be fair. But you
know we saw him just get stop. He was he
was out on his feet for a moment against Zang
and you know Zang didn't finish him. Now Zang could bang.
But you know so I think people talk about that next.

(49:10):
That would probably be good for trauma. I think that
would probably be a good one for him.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
You know, you have at least he's got to get
past the jab in right hand, you know what I mean.
So it is a test for him.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
Yeah, you know, Bacoli's Becoli's easy to hit. He's kind
of right there for I mean, that wouldn't that's about it.
I mean, Dubois, you know he's got the power there.
But that performance, you know against Ustick, even though Azustik
was not good.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
You know, the win to me now, the win over
Herkovic's like, you know, Herkovic got caught. I don't know,
you know, and.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
I mean already beat Miller, you know, stopped took some
shots early, then stopped him late. But you know, he
blew away Joshua. I mean, which it was impressive, but
I'm like, in hindsight now I'm just wondering if that's
just like these two guys have power and and chins
that aren't the greatest, and it's some situation like whoever
whoever gets home big first enough is going to win

(50:17):
when those two guys fight.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
That's just kind of where I'm changing.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
So I think, wait and see mode.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
I'm more I'm waiting to see on Automa than I
am on some people. Not because I'm down on them,
but I test them. I usually do feel I'm ready
to make.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
The call him.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
I'm just kind of like I just the oppositions, like
like White, even in his quote unquote prime, I think
people overrate White. I mean, he's always been limited to me,
doesn't take the greatest shot. He's limited, and you know
now he's old and semi active, and he looked like
he didn't want to be there, So you know, I

(50:53):
just I just can't take much. I mean, really, you
look at the way this one played out. What what
can you take from?

Speaker 2 (51:00):
You know?

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah, that's the thing.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
And it's not like he was just out from taking
a bomb, like he hit him with a combination. It
was like a bomb. I mean, White was just looked
like a guy that didn't want to be there. And
I don't want to take away from Atama because that's
White's fault. And he did the job like you get
a guy out of there like that in in a round,
and I give atom a credit for that because that
that shows me something above other people. Like if he

(51:25):
was a total fraud, that's really all I was looking for.
Saturday was like I was like, you know, if he's
a total fraud, he'll have trouble with White, right, Like
not because White, to me, was bringing that much. That's
what I mean, Like if if Automa was just a fraud,
so you know, it was the opposite. He got the
guy out of here and won like like he should.

(51:46):
So that's good. But I just I'm still with him
more than some others. I'm just still on wait and
see on him. I gotta I gotta see a little
bit better opposition.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yeah, that's the thing. And in we know nowadays is
not what it was like, the way you develop and
all that. And Tyson had that run of you know,
I think people overrate Tyson, but I think they also
underrate how many guys he fought in the top ten

(52:18):
and took care of or just one for you know,
up until where he went to jail, you know, like
he did face a lot of guys in the top
ten though once he got going. And I think people
are like ligning up their age John right now and
be like, dude, who's better at well, hold on, what
do you mean by twenty one? He's twenty By twenty
one he had fought way better guys.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
Well, and there's another thing. There's another thing I think
you got to watch too. Of course, things are different.
The amateur system is not as poupa or as it
used to be. I get all that, you know, the
Olympics boxing is not as pauper as he used to be.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
But like you know, see sometimes peopleople.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
Forget then when the guys become famous in the pros,
if they hadn't won an Olympic gold. Sometimes people forget
what their amateur backgrounds were, and that that can be
misleading because they missed stuff. Like in other words, with
a lot of people who did become end up becoming great.
Like you know, I mean Tyson lost in the Olympic trials,

(53:17):
you know, to Henry Tilman. I mean, like and he
and Tyson was a huge favorite. I'm not saying that
like that bad on Tyson, but i mean, like, you know,
that's where his amateur career, you know, he was, Yeah,
he was one step from being in the eighty eighty
four Olympics in Los Angeles on the US team, where
he then would have won a gold because Tilman won one.

(53:39):
So you know, and Tim Tilman, you know, didn't prove
to be you know, have to of course, any anything
on the level of Mike Tyson.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
You know.

Speaker 4 (53:50):
So I mean like like o Toama doesn't have that,
you know, he doesn't have that kind of back you know,
he doesn't have that kind of background either. So they're
like right, like you're saying they're comparing in their age
and stuff. I'm like, yeah, but you're look look at
the way the system was back then and stuff. I
mean Tyson was the favorite in the Olympic trials in
eighty four, you know, lost to Tillman, you know, and

(54:14):
I'm thinking in that system, I think you know, he
lost to him twice, you know, like like Tilman had
to beat him twice by decision and he did it.
I'm doing that right off the top of my head.
But like you're right, yeah, I think, yeah, but like Tyson,
you know, Tyson was the big favorite to be on
a team.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
But why I'm saying all that is like, you know,
this guy, you know, he was on the radar in
the amateur you know, he was on the radar and
the amateurs you know, at world level, you know, at world.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
Level, so like you know, you know, like it's it's
like a Tom was not really coming from that kind
of a.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yeah, you know, see fast hands and knocking people out
and that type of thing, and they just want to
put it together, you know.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
And he's young, you know, he is young, which I
do like to see that for a change, because I'm
in favor of like I said, I think it's the
and it was that article was there was actually doctor Goodman.
I had texted you about that. I was sick of it.
Was Randy Gordon. Yeah, but it was Margaret Goodman, you know,
who was the chiefs physician in mot and Nevada and
and is you know, involved with Vada and everything. And

(55:19):
she was talking about that study, which you know, even
makes it more interesting about you know, really maximum number
of fights should be like twenty six I think the
number was.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
But you know, that's what I've been saying for a while.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
While I'm saying that with Automa, I do like that,
like I think in our ideal system, and that's coming
up when we're talking about ali Act and revisions and stuff.
This stuff does matter and ties together, like the ideal system,
even if you're maybe just training an athlete or they're
not coming from like the old system like we talked about,
you know, a guy like Automa.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
This is kind of what you want though.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
To me, you want like people like twenty to thirty
getting their twenty six fights in and then just being out.
I mean, you still have the risk and everything, but
that would be the safest for the long term health.
And we don't need all this to lay. I mean,
just get it going. I mean, I'm I'm I think
it's best. I think it's actually best for the fighter,

(56:15):
safety and the sport. If we would just have the
young the younger people moving quick and then get.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Now and everybody fighting each other in their primes.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
Right, everybody fights either in their prime, no who, no
hopers and all that stuff, right twenty six meaningful fights.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Yeah, yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
I mean we speaking of music, like there some guys
where you're like, wow, you know that that's pretty awesome,
you know like that, you know, maybe that is the future.
Obviously that would probably uh well, it would need to
be like unionized and negotiated and all that, but it's
not impossible. That's for damn sure. No.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
And I think it fits to me with the idea
of that training center you know, which is being debated,
you know ufc AS and with the you know, unified
Boxing organization concept. But that's to me where that training
center could come in because rather than have kids fighting
all you know, it's not it's not safe to you know,

(57:14):
we know this now, We know more than we used to.
You know, the idea of developing boxer is good. Yet
it might be good for skill, but it's not good
for health. Like we know now, ten year olds shouldn't
be amateur fighting.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
They shouldn't.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
I mean, they just shouldn't, you know, twelve year olds
even so, like what I'm getting at is like kind
of like if we would shift to the idea that
and the Olympics aren't what they used to be and stuff.
So if you would shift to the idea of like
a training center where you'd get like really good young
athletes coming in learning the box, and then like we're saying,
then they're fighting each other like right off the bat

(57:51):
when they get to the level, they're ready to have
their you know, first pro fight, and the career is shorter,
but you know, more meaningful, and you know that that
kind of a thing doing it that way.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Right, Yeah, I just you know now that he won quick,
he shouldn't have a problem getting a Moses shouldn't have
a problem you know, booking a fight before the end
of the year. It's August. He should be able to
fight one more time.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
I hope.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
And I do feel like he's got a bright future.
I really do. But I'm kind of with you, and
I've been in this mode for a while where I'm
pretty much wait and see because I just want the
resume part of it to catch up a little bit.
So I can really see it, and I want to
see him in the mid to late rounds against better competition.

(58:41):
I want to see how that works.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:43):
And the one good thing about the Saudi thing is,
like we've said for a couple of years, Chris is like,
you know, and we couldn't do this ten years ago.
This is one thing at least good now is you
can talk about these different guys fighting each other like
it can't happen so right, like like what if you
had him like fight, even if if like an automa
felt like a jaga.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, that's another yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Yeah, yeah, something like that. I mean, but like you.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Said, it's not four separate lists, and these two lists
you can't you might as well just throw them out
the way. You can only work off this list.

Speaker 4 (59:17):
And that's the way I talked about it because I
thought that was the only realistic way to talk about
it ten years ago, like it wasn't worth talking exactly.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it's not like we wanted in
house fights all the time. But if they all had
their own separate deals, then that's what you gotta do.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
You had you had to talk about that one. I
would always say that now it's changed a.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Bit, right, yeah, exactly. Yep, you don't have as.

Speaker 4 (59:38):
Many good fights available as we used to the way
things are slipping. But but we can talk about guys
with different promotional outfits actually fighting each other with the
Saudi factor.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
And we'll get back to to some of this, uh,
because I want to hear your your thoughts on the
new deal the UFC just landed. But also it sounds
like zofa Boxing according to Dana White, he's already got
a deal in place now now, you know, we'll talk
a little bit about that and see, you know, whether

(01:00:13):
it's a case of basically what sat what what Turkey
and Saudi Arabia has been doing with working with these promoters.
Is it just gonna be that and then or do
they you know, how they'll sign like three fights with
with Turkey. Is that is that gonna be what they're
looking for? Or is it long term contracts or whatever?
They usually don't have a lot of long term contracts

(01:00:35):
in the UFC, I don't think so consistently anyway. So well,
we'll talk a little bit about that and in some
other fight news one fifty four looks like there's some
fights coming up but let's talk more about this card
Nick Ball Sam Goodman. I did think this fight was
a little bit better than I thought on paper. I

(01:00:55):
thought Goodman in some of the rounds he would it
was a little bit more than busy work. But once
Ball started laying his jab in his overhand and all that,
I did think he won the fight. But the one
eighteen one ten I think is pretty ridiculous obviously. But

(01:01:15):
what were your thoughts on this fight? And then where
does Nick Ball go or maybe you know, maybe you
added a drawer or something and rematch. I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
I don't want to see I didn't want to see
it the first time. I don't want to see it again.
It ended up it ended up being you know, I
look at it going and I said, like, well, it's
not the fight we wanted. I'd rather have Ball fighting
somebody else. But it's not a bad style matchup between
these two.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Yeah, That's where I ended up thinking of going in.

Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
Except this is the one part though about the style
matchup I don't didn't like. I don't like like when
two non punchers were in there with each other, there,
moving their hands a lot and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
There's not enough suspense to me, sure, not enough drama.

Speaker 4 (01:02:01):
Yeah, you can get a move in their hands and stuff,
but still and and neither of these guys as much
of a puncher, so that that part I didn't like.
But I figured, you know, Ball being very short even
for featherweight, and you know Goodman being kind of a
you know, tall er, lankier guy, even though he was
coming up from the one twenty two. I thought, well,

(01:02:21):
there's some there's some decent mesh of the styles there. Yeah,
So that's that's what I thought. So in that sense,
kind of kind of what I figured. But like, you know,
I look at like Ball like we need you know,
we need to see like what Carrington has. I mean,
you know that would be good if like they fought
something like that. Just need to get need to get

(01:02:47):
it moved along. You know, there's not we don't need,
we don't need these like this is just a kind
of fight in there, like like you just didn't need it.
You just didn't you just didn't need this fight.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
So it's kind of like run of the mill boxing
stuff that we're pretty used.

Speaker 4 (01:03:01):
To exactly, like just the fight that nobody wanted that
they're given to you anyway, and try and again. Then
then this is what people need to wake up to,
is that then this has been the promotional go to
for a long time now. It didn't used to be
because people knew to brush it off more in the pass,
but now that now they just look at it as
the number one marketing tool, Like if we can put

(01:03:23):
an alphabet belt on it, we can sell it to somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Oh, it's for the WBA featherweight title.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Yeah, promoter manager platform. It's all tied into a deep
exactly right. They're all going with it, and it's in
their contracts too. If you reach this level, sure you're
you're probably gonna make more money as a manager and fighter,
but also the promoter is probably going to kick in
another extension once you hit the title. You know, it's

(01:03:50):
all in the contracts.

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
It's just it's it is a big part of the
problem I'm liking in terms of the commentators and fans ends.
In the last six months to a year, I am
seeing some people wake up, Like, you know, I've seen
now people on social media and writers saying things like

(01:04:12):
and this I think in what we're talking about is
the right way to look at it, Like, look, you know,
we want the boxers to make as much money as possible.
But you know, if you think this crazy systems working
for the sport of boxing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
You're nuts. I mean, you know you're nuts. I mean
the sport's going down there, like people are.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
They were trying to do the old like toxic positivity
to me, like no matter what was going wrong with
the sport, Oh, you know, it's just old people wanting
to criticize and there's good things. Now it seems like,
I think in a good way. You're getting more and
more people just saying.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Like because they asked their buddy and say, hey, what
do you think those fights? What fights? What? Right? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Like exactly like wait a second, this isn't this isn't
growing the sport.

Speaker 4 (01:04:59):
You know, I think people are started. It took too long,
but I do think a lot more people seem to
be starting to get it now, like we're going nowhere
as a sport on the course it is right now.
So something's you know, something's something's got to change. You know,
you can debate maybe what they're talking about right now,

(01:05:22):
you know, has its flaws and stuff, and that's a
healthy debate, but but you can't make the case anymore
that this is that this is working whatever system we
got going here, because people are waking up. I started
waking up tomorrow. And you know, Chris, I've been saying
it the last year or two because my light bulb
went off. And now I see that a lot like
you can't have fighters risking their life making five hundred bucks. Yeah,

(01:05:44):
I mean that's not like that's not a working a
working system. You know, Canelo makes a lot great, you know, Joshua,
you know Ushik, you know, we want them to make money,
but like and we don't want the promoters to make
you know, we'd like to fighters to make most of it.
But like people risking their lives are getting killed and

(01:06:04):
bounts for that. Not not that getn't kill for any
amount of money's worth your life. But you're the point,
it's really bad.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
It's just the risk reward of I mean, you're fighting
for five hundred dollars right at.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Least Canelo, you know, and Javonte that like they can
they can sell something. And then there you could say revenue, Okay,
this isn't mean you're making this your revenue, but you've
there's this second tier of fighters now that are that
are getting way overpaid, and it's not sustainable right being
spread out.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Right, it's not spread out exactly, it's just.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
A couple of five million. You know what you can
do with five million dollars rather than just this one
fight for one one fighter that you're not making any
profit on the revenue.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
You're just that right now. One thing I'm in favor
of like that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
A lot of the people that are trying to I
don't think I've become convinced, like you know, arguing for
the Ali.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Act as as it is now.

Speaker 4 (01:07:04):
This this sport's just not working this way so like
in the US, so like it's I don't think that's
the answer. But I'm with with some of these people there.
Like I think it was John Nash on social media
put it out there. I don't know if his numbers
are exactly right, but it was a good thought and
that ties in with what you you talked about, Chris.
But this, to me is a healthy way to look
at it. This is the healthy part of the debate.

(01:07:24):
He was just saying, with the UFC CBS paramount deal,
the money that White is proposing, there are there are
some increases even he was saying that, but but it
comes out to something like sixteen point two percent of
revenue on that deal. Now I'm I'm with what Nash

(01:07:44):
is saying there, Like when I say this stuff, I'm
still like that's too low, Like that should be like
a fifty to fifty.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Yeah, you're going to call yourself this major sport. Did
you want to pay like a major sport?

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Then?

Speaker 4 (01:07:56):
Right, like, like, let's do around fifty fifty what the
revenue you know, half to the fighters have to you know,
havef to their promotion, the organization. That's like what I'm
looking That's like what I'm looking for. But you know,
the system we're having now is not working in boxing.
But you know, I can see like the argument like
sixteen point two percent too low.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
I agree with that. Yes, something around fifty to fifty.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
She's signing a deal that you just signed, you know, right,
don't hide behind the cloth of like, well there the
salary is gonna go up. Well, no shit, you just
doubled the money that you had the last deal, of course,
but still you know that that's the only thing that's
the scary part about that. And and the bill is
a UFC bill, but why wouldn't it be right, of course,

(01:08:42):
why wouldn't it be. If you're gonna go through the
trouble having a bill and you're gonna get sponsored bipartisan,
you're gonna write your bill. But the AUDI Act is
fine is what we really need, not not fine, like
there's but it can be on the books, right, that
type of thing does need to be on the books
to still help some fighters. But overall, what we need

(01:09:04):
is a supervisor. We need overseeing committee, like a real
one with teeth. Right, you can federally go over the
states and say, nah, dude, we're not gonna do that.
We're not having that fight here. I don't give a
shit what your commissioned state commission says. You can't do it.
So the UBO, I'm okay with that. Now does that

(01:09:28):
just turn into a fifth belt? You know? That's what
we don't know. But I think that if you really
want teeth, then this is the time to put an
overall committee, federal committee in it, because that's what boxing
needs it for being honest, you.

Speaker 4 (01:09:44):
Know, yeah, I'd like to see the revenue split. That's
my one concern there. But like and and you know,
I think the disclosure requirements are good. But but the
alphabets being part of the ALIAC. I've always had a
problem with that. Sure I have, I'm not I'm not.
As you can tell, I'm not going to get over
that problem because the alpha the alphabets shouldn't be part

(01:10:07):
of any like.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Functioning.

Speaker 4 (01:10:11):
They don't work, you know, they shouldn't be a part
of any any kind of plan because they don't.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
They're they're corrupt, they don't function.

Speaker 4 (01:10:17):
So I am in favor of this UBO concept, like
like you're saying, if there was like something like you know,
you have you have FIFA for World Cup, so you
have a US Olympic. You know, you have an Olympic
International Olympic Committee for Olympics.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
So these things.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
Aren't perfect, but these are true, like at least operating
as like an independent overseers.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Like something you need, you need, you need that. But
until you give me that, I'm not. I'm not.

Speaker 4 (01:10:49):
I don't want the alphabets, like you know, as opposed
to having the you'd rather I personally rather have the
UBO thing at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
I mean sure, I just would.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
I mean I'd rather the angle to try to get
rid of the belts, that's for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:11:03):
That's why because I've always wanted them to go away,
and I'm like, maybe we get them to go away
and then you know, you go to something new for.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Them to get fixed overnight regardless. No, you can want
that up the committee and it's correct, but then in
ten or fifteen years, maybe it wouldn't be you know,
that type of thing you could, you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
Know, right, but I'd like to have you know.

Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
But but I do want equal revenue sharing, you know,
I do want always disclose. I've been saying a long time,
like I need, you know, I need to know how
much the promoters are making, you know, so then we
can have a fair split on revenue. So I still
want to see all that. But I just the sport's
not working, you know, with the alphabet. Sure, there's there's
people at the very top making money, and I'd rather
have them make it than the promoters. I'm always going

(01:11:44):
to say that or anybody else because they're taking the risks.
But there's there most most of the fighters aren't making anything,
you know, and if they made a little bit with
the with the with the risk of you know, you're
getting brain, you just are you're getting brain, damn you know.
CTE risk they're not getting paid enough to competent enough

(01:12:06):
to compensate, right, the damn that that kind of damage,
you know, So it's it's not it's not working.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
It's not working. I mean it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Right now. That's not in the New Act though, correct.
It's like there's bumps. There aren't bumps of money, right,
and there's a bump in health insurance the insurance, right,
there's insurance medic type of thing.

Speaker 4 (01:12:34):
But you know, health insurance is key. I mean you
got to have you know, I mean, with with what
risks they're taking, you know, to you'd really like to see.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
It because that the one, the one I'm reading, looks
like window dressing to meet more than.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
Actually I mean, you'd like to say, you'd like to
have health disability.

Speaker 4 (01:12:54):
Insurance, you know, yeah, even if there's some kind of
pension fun you know, you have to split revenue, definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
But then one thing that doesn't fit. But I agree,
it doesn't fit.

Speaker 4 (01:13:06):
One thing I'm tired of too, because look, we just
reached a point where it's doing it doesn't Let's let's
be real. Let's be truly real. It's not doing anything
for the development of sport anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
It's past its time. The sport's not popular enough there.

Speaker 4 (01:13:23):
I'm not worried about the little promoter, like I've seen
that written a couple of times with all this discussion
like well what about the little show, the little local
club show promoter, And I'm like, look, there's no place
for the club show promoter anymore. I mean, look, I
know boxing's history, the history is crucial and stuff, but
that that's gone, that's not that's not coming back. I

(01:13:43):
mean really, when you really start thinking about who are
the more known fighters and the way it's gone nowadays
with what you got left, I mean, they're not coming
up on little club shows anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
That is true.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
It's part of like you know, the PBC card or
the match Room.

Speaker 4 (01:14:00):
Card, they're not They're not you know, going around on
independent little you know, the top rank prelims.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:14:08):
Now now we've we've debated you and I and I
think correctly that you know, pointing it out that that's
confusing to the casual fan having those fights on, like
there are no casual fans left, but whatever one's potentially
would be like what am I watching here? But but
maybe the good part there is like you know, since

(01:14:29):
there's really no place for those little promoters anymore. To me,
that that that kind of replaces that, like, you know,
the big promoter so to speak, is just you know, put.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
Them on her earlier in the afternoon.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
But it just needs to be packaged better so that
you know, a casual, potential casual fan.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Would would know what that is. And and you know,
not not.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
A lot of that club stuff comes down to a
local fighter that can sell five hundred tickets right.

Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
And and and it's and it's at its best, that's
what that do, right or a thousand tickets or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
But yeah, that that is a good point. And the
one thing about whether people disagree or whatever with you,
it isn't messing. It doesn't The ALIAC would still be
in law. So it's not like it wouldn't be there,
you know, it would take away that completely, you know
what I mean. So it's still there. And so the
things that it did do for a certain you know,

(01:15:26):
certain level of fighter, it's still there and none of that.
But now you know, they're just going to be like, dude,
I'm not going to fight. If this isn't the case
for you. You could even take away the ALIAC and
Cano is going to say this is what this is
what I'm getting. So if you want to do business
with me, you got to show me everything anyway. So right,
so yeah, yeah, it's you know, just because of the

(01:15:50):
track record of the UFC pay it does you know,
it does make me scratch my head a little bit.
But the lower, the lower value fights fighters, they do
get more on the undercard, you know, for the whole
if you have ten fights or whatever, those guys at
least have a better starting spot. But you know, we'll

(01:16:14):
see how this goes, and it all matters how it
comes together because it could just end up being, you know,
like a test run. They're getting ten million to do
this per year and so they're not losing anything in
the UFC. So that that background.

Speaker 4 (01:16:33):
Anyway, you know, data way, and let's look at it
this way, because I did feel at the time, and
I'm sure Al Haymon did because he was getting as
close to it as he could. And I don't blame
him one bit. You know, if ten years ago this
UBO bill would have been in effect, PBC would have
been able to do what they were trying. They could
have done it. Yeah, they could have done it. I mean,
that's what way. It's shame. You know, they could have

(01:16:54):
you know, that's what they wanted to do. I mean,
they could have done it. There would have been you know,
no roadblock getting into which all it was was obstruction,
just trying to get in their way, and then they
had to make some adjustments. But like, that's really what
they wanted to do ten years ago. So you know
that that I think that, you know, ten years later,
you know, Dana White's got the political pull, which that

(01:17:18):
is where this is coming from.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
But I mean, I mean, if you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
Look at the numbers on a new deal, it looks
pretty right, you know, it looks kind of like, okay, sure,
good for you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Get yeah, get rid of Colbert, get rid of Colbert.
Pick up. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
Basically we'll see who's funnier. We already know that answer.
But uh so, ray Ford a filling, you know, Nova
for a filling, did his job. I'll say that I
thought he was effective when he had his head in
Ford's chest and just kind of wailing on him. But

(01:17:59):
it did get sloppy. Obviously. There was times when Ford
looked real sharp with the jab and the left hand
and all that, and then the fight just got a
little sloppy. He moved a little bit too much for me.
What did you think of it? Because you know, Kakachi
was the fight and I was looking forward to that fight.
That was a closely matched fight and hopefully that's hopefully
that's just the next fight. That was the most I

(01:18:20):
was by far, that's the most anticipated fight on this
card for me.

Speaker 4 (01:18:24):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's that was an interesting fight Ford.
I agree with like what you said. You know, Ford,
he's always a.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Little up and down.

Speaker 4 (01:18:30):
To me, He's got moments he looks real good and
then you know he just has you know, he's kind
of up and he's kind of up and down like that.
But you nova was a guy that Yeah, he's right.
He's just like you said. You know, he's he's a
decent fighter. You know, he's just a little bit you know,
he's he's a little bit sure of being the top

(01:18:51):
and and really even kind of like on the fringe
of the legit top ten type of guy.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
But he's not a bad fighter or anything. Yeah, you know,
I like I.

Speaker 4 (01:19:00):
Like seeing Ford fight. Though although Ford's fights generally have
got surprisingly they've they've gotten more entertaining.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
As his career went on.

Speaker 1 (01:19:07):
Yeah, definitely, and you don't see that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
You don't see that that often. Once in a while
you see it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:12):
But although I do remember our Tugatti's early days when
he was a boxer and Mickey Mickey Ward was a
boring boxer before he retired for the first time. I mean,
I always get a laugh with Ron Katz, the all
time great matchmaker, about that because he totally used him.
And he says it too, He's like, absolutely, we could

(01:19:32):
barely get the guy to a that ship that provided
Eddie at or table. Then he comes back and becomes
his all the time slugger. So once in a while
you see you know, you don't see it a lot,
but occasionally you see it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
And you know, Ford has been in some really good fights.

Speaker 1 (01:19:45):
Yeah, and I think the styles would line up in
that Kakachi fight.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
Yeah, that would be a you know, that is a
good style matchup.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
So hopefully that is that is next. It should be.
I mean, they already signed the damn paper for nick
Ball though, Leo Espinoza, you know, anyone in that top tier,
I think you should push them for that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
Yeah, that's something.

Speaker 4 (01:20:11):
Those are decent fights and that could be an entertaining division,
but they're not. They're not like making those fights, you know,
like and like like we were saying here now.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
I think a free agent though. Yeah, so I don't know,
I don't know what were you saying though.

Speaker 4 (01:20:29):
Just saying, yeah, those would be you know that you
can make some of those fights more than used.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
To now with the South, with the Saudi's getting getting involved.
I mean, I'd like to see some of those fights made.
There are some potentially entertaining matchups there, but they're not
fighting each other.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
Right, yeah, exactly. That that's yeah, and some of that, obviously,
you know, has to do with that that ESPN deal
and why it does not exist anymore. Hergevic. You know Adeline,
I thought Adeline. I thought they gave him way too
much credit for like a couple of rounds where he
went off but then he didn't punch, he held, he

(01:21:05):
gassed like I thought he got a don't get me wrong,
you know, I thought it was kind of funny when
he he took that big punch and then like stuck
his tongue out and got all and then he got dropped.
He get dropped, but you know the last minute he
did he didn't do really well, but I thought these
little spurts of like, Okay, this could be a really

(01:21:26):
great fight. But then he just gassed and get tired
gas and then hold he was holding more than Hergevic
and her Vic it was was breeding heavy too, but
he stayed on game plan. It's hard for me to
say Adeline like underperformed, but beyond a couple of rounds,
I think he did. I don't not that I thought

(01:21:48):
he'd win this fight, but I think at the end
of it, they were all and I know it's a
broadcast whatever, but a lot of people are like, oh
my god, it was a great friends. Like, I mean,
it was good, it was fun, better than I thought.
But I'm not gonna just bend over backwards and be like, oh,
Adeline could beat anybody else in the you know, five
to ten or something like that, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:22:07):
No, he already got you know, he already got stopped
by Wardly, so you know, for him, it was probably
an okay performance. But yeah, you know, he didn't get
he got dropped and he didn't get stopped. And you know,
Hergovic had the cut, but you know, Hergovic is just
he's just not even what some people thought he'd be early.

(01:22:29):
He's definitely not that. And even for me, I thought
he was showing some limitations early in his career. I
had commented about him a few times that really in
terms of punch variety, I mean, the guy's just got
the right hand and that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
He just relies a lot on the right hand.

Speaker 4 (01:22:45):
But then what I what to me, even I didn't
expect from him, and it's a negative, is like, as
he stepped up his opposition, that right hand's not knocking
anybody good out. And that's to me. Now, I'm like,
this dude is really limited. I mean, like because you know,
du Boise had the shaky chin. Yeah, for his career,

(01:23:06):
he was bouncing right hands all over him. I mean
at will was defense just wasn't there, and he couldn't
get him out of there. And then he got cut
and you know when he's like, you know he had
Zang was like totally gassed at the end, and you
know he couldn't get him out of there, you know, Adelaide,
you know he didn't get him out. You know, he

(01:23:28):
didn't get him out of there. You know, So like
now you look at his overall body of work. I mean,
like the real, the real low weak opposition. He was
getting people out of there, but he's it's not it's
not carrying over and he doesn't he doesn't bring enough
other things to the table for me. Yeah, so you know,

(01:23:48):
he he just seems to me to be a guy
that like this, this is his ceiling and he's already
he's thirty three, he's already been at his ceiling, and
it's it's his ceiling isn't as high as a lot
of people thought it was. Coming out of the amateurs
to the pros. I mean, this guy did have a
decorated amateur career, so he's really been you know, he's

(01:24:09):
top ten legitimately. I know in like Transnational, there was
people that they wanted to move him up a spot.
I was like, to me, just leave him where he is.
He didn't really do anything that impressive. I mean, this
is somebody that he should be getting out of there
at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
And you know, he's just he just leveled off.

Speaker 4 (01:24:27):
I mean, I think he's just not just I mean,
there's not there's not any upside to me, Like we're
not seeing like people talking about him moving up in
the rankings, like.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
This is what the guy is.

Speaker 4 (01:24:37):
He's not as big of a puncher that it seemed
like he was going to be for a heavyweight, and
he doesn't have a lot of punch variety.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
Yeah, yeah, he's pretty basic. He's good at what he does,
but it's not good enough.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
Right, No, No, And now he's got this cut problem.
You know, the cut problem.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
He's going to be a problem.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Because he's had two bad cuts.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
You know, they handled it well this fight, but know
when it first happened, was like, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
Boy, yeah, I thought he might not make it through.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
But any you know, against somebody that's gonna throw more,
he probably wouldn't have you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:25:08):
Right, right, So that's yeah, he's people are saying it,
but certainly shouldn't be. He's not anybody that Autama should
be afraid to target.

Speaker 2 (01:25:21):
She's as long as he's for real, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Like I mentioned, I like, I think it's a good
test because he does have a good job, he does
have a good right hand. There there is something to him,
So I think it would be a good test for him.
I definitely do. And then you had that sum He
took care of that Ashley real quick. I like Satsumi
a lot. I think he's a good fighter. But yeah,

(01:25:45):
that basically wraps it up. This weekend, the Zone has
four or five cards this week in John, from Friday
to Saturday, they have five cards?

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
John, Are they all pay per view? Are they all
pay per view?

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
Yeah, well we don't know. We got to wait to
the day of you know.

Speaker 4 (01:26:03):
Yeah, you never know what them. You never know what
they want. You never know what they want. You watch
their stuff. They watch their stuff. That's how bad off.
That's how bad off it is.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
They're they're not.

Speaker 4 (01:26:16):
Going to do too well competing against UFC with a
CBS paramount deal.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
I like how he tried to take credit. Yeah, I've
been talking about this. This is a great deal. There's
no pay per views. I've been talking about this. However,
this weekend, you know, it's fifty dollars. You know, it's
just like, which one is it?

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
Dude?

Speaker 1 (01:26:33):
You know, because he had a tear system before that,
you're trying to have some of your stuff. I just
saw the new can so I think they're they're trying
it out on Canada. Jim Cross tweeted this fifty dollars
for the second basically to see any kind of good

(01:26:54):
stuff you'd want to see. It's fifty dollars. There fore, Yeah,
it's not sports, just going sports Circle, Sports Circle in.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
The drain, you know, on the path it's on.

Speaker 4 (01:27:07):
You know, I'll still say like the and I'm not
saying one thing can do it, but it's the only
hope that us wise, Like I mean, Canelo Crawford's gotta
gotta draw a big number on Netflix.

Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
Yeah, it just like has to.

Speaker 4 (01:27:20):
I mean doesn't mean the sport's going to be gone
the next day, but there'll really be nowhere to go
if it doesn't draw some kind of number. But but
these are two guys in their mid to late thirties
now too, so you know they're they don't have much
more time. But still, at least if it's a big event,
you know, maybe you can go to to at least

(01:27:41):
another day.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
Netflix would want, you know, right, that's really your hope, right,
get them to think, hey, you know, what's sign a
deal with somebody? Well, you know match Room's not going
to have fights on that Netflix. But did you see
they're having a documentary Matchrooms Sports? Uh Eddie Hearn and
Eddie Senior. I didn't see that Yeah, they got a

(01:28:04):
Netflix match, not the fights. They didn't have a documentary
that's coming out here on matchrom which, don't get me wrong,
in the UK they are Juggernaut. I'm not you know,
they got their ship together. I'm not saying that.

Speaker 4 (01:28:17):
Well plus plus the way the way things are going,
more people will see that than the fights the way.

Speaker 1 (01:28:20):
It's see so we know what it's about with Eddie.
But yeah, so so that is going to be on
Netflix and in it there is Uh. I just hope
Netflix is in the game.

Speaker 4 (01:28:34):
You know, Like did you see I mean Happy Gilmore,
Happy Gilmour two twenty four point That is a million
views right off the bat, right.

Speaker 2 (01:28:44):
I mean, that's that's what Netflix can give you.

Speaker 4 (01:28:46):
That that It's just the landscape's changed, I mean, and
I'm going to go back to it, but it matters
because it's the hope we're talking about now. You know
the big New York Times article within the last year
year or two, you know that flip. You know, corporate
leadership says, you know, we will pay for anything we
believe bring subscriber value, and they've shown they'll do it.

(01:29:09):
But like, but but they've said it, like there's no
compromise though in their system, like it's got to be
we determine it's something our subscribers want, right, So like
Canelo Crawford have made it past the politinity gates, you
know that, Like they're like, Okay, this has subscriber value
to us, but now the numbers got to be there

(01:29:31):
with it, like to prove to Netflix you were right
the subscribers archive for that matter.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Yeah, the subscribers wanted this.

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
And they've made right decisions because they're making profit, you know,
I know.

Speaker 4 (01:29:45):
You see their profit lately too. Man, That's what I
was thinking too. They're making the right calls because you're like,
their numbers are going through the roof. I've seen their
numbers now resenting in a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:29:55):
Of wrong calls in the streaming business. But they're making
some good ones.

Speaker 2 (01:29:59):
They're making good ones. I mean, the money they're making
crazy crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:30:03):
So they're they're they're they're the gorilla right now, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
Yeah, and it's not you know, Prime Video. We'd still
love for that to be pumped up, but at least
they have a huge backing behind them, whereas Netflix is
a little different setup, you know what I mean. So
they've really got it out the mud, like the kids
like to say it. And they aren't making They're doing
their thing. The best thing, let's parley into that that

(01:30:30):
UFC stuff. Anyway, the best thing would be if Turkey
got a deal with Netflix and then and then the
deal that supposedly has already done now. Dan Rafael said
that Paramount is in the lead for the ZUFA boxing,
but Dana White said on a show that they already
got it squared away, that they do have a deal.

(01:30:51):
And I'm thinking it's ESPN because WWE. You know that
there's a mixture there and I don't know what what,
I don't really know. I'm not gonna sit there and say,
like I know for a fact or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
Although ESPN just dropped, you know, they're not with UFC anymore,
so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, But didn't they do something with the
WWE though, I'm pretty sure, which is tied to the
same company.

Speaker 2 (01:31:16):
Okay, I'm not sure, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
Pretty sure they just did pretty sure. That's why people
are like, oh, wow, okay, you know, but I I
don't know. Anyway, he says it's a done, dude, He's
already got negotiated. So it's either almost done or it
is done. Uh, he's confident that he's getting dates on
something and it's a deal of some sorts whatever it is.

(01:31:38):
So this is where the part is where I'm like,
how is this gonna go? Right? Because if you're gonna
have a deal and you're gonna have dates, then you
have to be kind of lined up like we're mentioned
a hand probably a month two months ago, kind of
like how the PBC was positioned with a lot of
fighters so they had the position they could make the fight,

(01:32:01):
and so you have to be pretty positioned well now
or or is it gonna be how Turkey has operated
and he's just gonna be like, hey, Warren Eddy, nice
nobodies and push them out and just put those same
type of deal where they signed. You're still signing deals
no matter what, and and the promoters still could make

(01:32:23):
money off of that for the time being until the
fighters completely off the contract, assuming that's the way it's
gonna go, because you're not just gonna do like and
unless he's trying to do a Contender series, which I
don't think it's I don't I don't know if I
like that idea. If you're gonna use TV or a
big platform and then hey, we're gonna do a Contender.

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
Maybe I only like it fights, that's the That's what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
Probably it probably wouldn't be because of who's signing. Hear
what you know? That's yeah, you're right, if they could
do it right, yeah, tournament or whatever. But if it's
just it's the Contender series where he's they're gonna develop
their own fighters.

Speaker 4 (01:33:03):
Right when they do those in the fights aren't aren't
any good, It does nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:33:09):
It's but I'm open.

Speaker 4 (01:33:10):
I always thought though there would be an opening for
a series like that. Yeah, they where they work hard
to seriously make it where even if these are guys like,
it's gonna be a good fight, like that's what people
want to see, right, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:25):
But do you think they're gonna kind of use Turkey
because they're Turkey's give them ten million per year and
then a little bit more money for the two or
three major fights. So if you're gonna have major fights,
you're not gonna develop these guys real quick and put
on a major fight. You're gonna use the Canelo, Crawfords
and all that.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
I'm with you.

Speaker 4 (01:33:43):
I can't I haven't figured out exactly what they're gonna
try to do yet. Part part of it seems like
they're talking about the developmental but then it seems like
there's an opening for when they're just gonna be like
signing guys and trying to put some big fights on too.
And he's been doing just with them, right, But I

(01:34:05):
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:34:08):
Just imagine, not to cut you off, but just imagine.
Let's just say ESPN, just imagine if some of these
cards that they have put together that given't plenty of
credit to imagine those cards and those matchups on you know,
a bigger platform. Now we have the ball Robley.

Speaker 4 (01:34:26):
That's what That's what's totally being missed. It's like, we
know that costs costs more, and you got to make
more investment at the beginning. But exactly like, even if
some of those quote unquote cheaper pay per view cards
that were good all heavyweights and stuff, you know what,
what if that would have been on a major platform.
I'm like a good I'm like a good night or

(01:34:46):
even a good afternoon. I mean you know that then
you can get something going with a few of those.
But they just they just didn't that didn't at all
focus on anybody seeing.

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
Yeah, and it's and I understand that the Saudis have
to percent of his zone, and I wouldn't doubt John
at that's gonna be there because you know the twenty
thirty plan, I wouldn't doubt if they're just gonna buy
his own, you know, and then that's what they're gonna
stream it, and maybe they give it away, give away
the rights like they did with T and T for
that that soccer tournament this summer, or like a co

(01:35:19):
to Zone and T and T. If they want to
do that, that's fine too, But they're gonna prob that's
that's what I'm guessing that they're gonna try to buy
the zone. But it's like that's cool in a couple
of countries, but not here.

Speaker 4 (01:35:33):
It's just not They would have to turn into like
the co op deal with like TN T, like you said,
or something.

Speaker 1 (01:35:39):
And since that's why we just brought it up, because
at least they've there's a blueprint there, there's a deal,
And like I said, I saw to zone on the
damn microphones that they were talking on. Right, So what
I'm what, I'm home?

Speaker 2 (01:35:50):
What I'm home?

Speaker 4 (01:35:51):
What I'm hoping is you know, Turkey, there was that
period where he had backed off the Netflix for the
Canalo Crawford and then he reversed course and went back
to it. To me, like one of the only hopes
is that like something click for him there with the
US sensibilities that like, look, Turkey, if you don't take

(01:36:13):
care of this problem you and I are talking about
with your US sensibilities, it's still going nowhere no matter
how much money is the UK, you know. So you know,
like if he really did learn something there and then
this gets at least solid numbers where then he can
follow it up like he gets it more sees. Okay,
now I've got people talking about me in the US

(01:36:34):
that I didn't have before, Yes, because I had this
Netflix exposure with Canelo Crawford.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
And now you can fill up all this ego you
want and say whatever you want. As long as you
put it, you know, in the right place, you know,
talk your shit, then that's fine. But we'll see about
this November card, which looks very good on paper, but
once again, I mean, you didn't get there and it's
gonna be seventy dollars six days.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
Right, It's gonna be seventy dollars.

Speaker 4 (01:37:00):
But where we're going on some weird platform at some
weird time, you know, I mean, it's just not going
to do with it. And they're locked into the Saturday
night thing doesn't have any logic. That's something that started
in recent decades. It's the least watch TV night of
the week summer to keep saying, where the Saturday night
sport like.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
College football does that because you've got NFL you got
to deal with yah, But like you don't.

Speaker 1 (01:37:26):
And they start at eleven or twelve you know, twelve
year time in the morning and go on. So they
got the whole thing erectly, right, that's a different ball guy.

Speaker 4 (01:37:36):
Not wait until eleven thirty at night. That's one game
after they've shown twelve hours.

Speaker 1 (01:37:40):
Of games, right, I was showing the FCS games and
then they by the way damn Georgia you know.

Speaker 4 (01:37:47):
Right, yeah, like exactly like the way boxing is do it. It
makes no sense to put yourself on late on the
East on the least TV watch night of the week,
I mean constantly.

Speaker 2 (01:37:57):
So the Netflix thing is the one home.

Speaker 1 (01:38:01):
So I was shocked by the number of the CBS
paramount deal and it you know the pay per view data.
White was like, oh, hold on, we're not saying it's
completely done, but in this thing, it's gonna be straight up.
So whether it's streaming, you know, we haven't heard the

(01:38:21):
one hundred if they're all going to be on CBS
or some of them are going to be a CBS
or whatever. But either way, they were running into a
problem too. You know that ESPN Plus deal where ESPN
would give them a certain amount of millions of dollars
just to make it exclusive. They knew, and we've said
this too, They UFC knew that if you only have

(01:38:42):
it on ESPN Plus, that's not a good thing. And
so their numbers on pay per view fel too.

Speaker 4 (01:38:48):
It's important, you know, incredible reports were coming out right
before this deal, not from the UFC, but yeah, it
turned out to be absolutely right that their pay per
view numbers were way.

Speaker 1 (01:38:58):
Down, sinking big. Yes, and they kept having I'm gonna
have him too many and it's just not worthy. But
but I understand why the UFC was like, well, if
you're gonna pay us this amount of money, then sure,
we'll let.

Speaker 2 (01:39:12):
You do that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:12):
And it never really made this major build up on
ESPN Plus. And that's where you're like, Okay, what's the
play here, because I don't, you know, building up paramount.
I don't know how much that's gonna build it up,
but it definitely won't decrease it, that's for sure. And

(01:39:33):
then you'll you'll get the casual viewer of course, you know, like, hey,
that's on for free UFC. Cool, I'll watch it. But
but if you put the CBS arm in it now
all of a sudden, you're talking, you know, then you
can get it back, build the sport back up, even
though it's making all this thing. So you know, the
revenue you mentioned Cobert, the revenue wasn't there. His ratings

(01:39:56):
were there, but the revenue wasn't there. Is the revenue
gonna be there for this though? I was. I was
actually one a year Joe.

Speaker 4 (01:40:08):
I was surprised they got the deal because you know,
they don't. I think the criticism is valid. I've said
that with them for a few years too, because it
didn't used to be the case. But but they've got
no stars right now. I mean, that's that's a valid
criticism of the UFC right now.

Speaker 2 (01:40:22):
I mean, they were running pay per.

Speaker 1 (01:40:23):
Viewing younger, it got older, right, last twenty years, it has
only gotten older, you.

Speaker 4 (01:40:28):
Know, and they've they you know, they they've they've got
you know, they were running pay per views and they
don't have any stars, so you know that, you know
that that ran out. I mean, look, ESPN's making cuts.
I mean, baseball's gone, Top ranks gone. NFL's got ten
percent of ESPN now, So it's not like ESPN's not

(01:40:48):
making moves, but in their evaluations of what's valuable, UFC
and Baseball didn't make the cut, nor did top rank boxing.
So hey, that's that's really what happened though, So so
now I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (01:41:05):
I was kind of like, it's like you, if you
pay out one point one bill, right, how are you
gonna without pay per views? John, how are you gonna?
I don't know. I don't know how they make it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:17):
I do know, I do know though maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:41:19):
Their world wide stuff is huge.

Speaker 4 (01:41:21):
I actually I think what it is, Chris, you think
the only reason they're getting that money and and it's
and frankly that's why the NBA got it too. I
think because you know, their ratings have gone down in.

Speaker 1 (01:41:32):
The future, they're securing the future of something.

Speaker 2 (01:41:35):
No, it's it's that.

Speaker 4 (01:41:36):
It's that in the modern world of viewingship why viewership
the sport is the only way you can get somebody
to watch something at a certain time because they don't
want to watch it when they know what the result
is already. And then the gambling factor, now it's legal
in most states, ties into that. If you want to

(01:41:59):
gamble on it, you got to watch it live, So
that goes together like live you know, there's things in
life that go through these cycles where they get overpaid
for arguably, and like that's where live sports is because
they all feel that they have to have it for
that reason, because it's the only thing left that they
can say is going to be on at a certain

(01:42:20):
time and get people to watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:22):
Then is live sport.

Speaker 4 (01:42:24):
Everything else stream on demand, which is what's made streaming
more popular than cable and broadcast over the long run,
is because a common sense thing like I'm laughing because
at my age, I live through this too, and you know, Chris,
you live through some of it. But I was I
was listening to a real old soft rock rock pop

(01:42:44):
song and the reference was like, you know, it was
a big hit at the time, but I can I
can now watch my TV shows whenever I want after
the breakup. And the point being is like you have
to be of a certain should know, like before VCR
before like you had to be sitting at the TV

(01:43:05):
set at a.

Speaker 2 (01:43:06):
Certain time, a little song on the radio or something
right every like like yeah, like or you missed it period,
you didn't see it.

Speaker 4 (01:43:14):
So like they can only do that in the year
twenty twenty five with sports basically.

Speaker 1 (01:43:20):
So this is their big but this their big this
they're big shot at it.

Speaker 2 (01:43:24):
Yeah, and then the gamble and then the gambling adds to.

Speaker 1 (01:43:27):
That because it is a huge gamble though.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):
Yeah, I think that where UFC is at right now
might be overpay.

Speaker 1 (01:43:35):
Gates, you know, like you will see they're not going
to get the gates or something like that. Either.

Speaker 2 (01:43:40):
I don't I'll tell you what may tie in and
it may see.

Speaker 4 (01:43:44):
And I'm not saying this to be like a backer
of just Dana White and what he's doing and you know,
maybe with Turkey behind him, but I do think like
this would be the case for me if like let's
pretend they had the money and like PBC was trying
to buy UFC or something like that. Or Top Rank
was trying to buy PBC and UFC. I'm not saying

(01:44:06):
they have the money, but this is a theory I've
talked about before, and with the way the sport's going
boxing and I look at what the problems UFC had,
this is something I'm thinking about in twenty twenty five.
The theory I've been kind of operating on more and more,
and I think it's really why what we're talking about
might need to happen. And I don't care who does

(01:44:28):
it be it Dana White, top ranking theory, Eddie Hurn.

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
Whoever, but it's this.

Speaker 4 (01:44:33):
I think what may may have kind of happened too
is that I don't know what the exact number would be,
but let's let's pretend like when UFC started getting more popular,
like twenty years ago. Let's pretend at that point there
was a X amount of people are willing to watch
combat sports, which we'll just take it as boxing and

(01:44:54):
MMA combined. Okay, but it's only that amount. I think
there's probably an argument like it could be factors. People
have moral objections with the violence, you know, like we
watch it, we overcome that in our own ways. That's
not us, but there are people like that, and it's
probably even like the majority down.

Speaker 1 (01:45:12):
Yeah, it's not gonna go down.

Speaker 4 (01:45:14):
So let's let's say there's I mean, I'm just gonna
make up a number, like let's say only twenty percent
of people in the US or what we are willing
to watch combat sports. Well, then like boxing and UFC
are in that theory, which I think is becoming more
and more valid. They're like all competing for the same

(01:45:35):
people and like they're carving it up. So maybe the
path for the future is like I talked about the
satellite radio example, when they had to get through the
regulators twenty years ago when Serious with Separate and XM
was Separate, and they were the only two satellite radio outfits,
and they had to say, well, yeah, it's a monopoly

(01:45:57):
and satellite radio, but with what we got to compete
against with everything else, you should still let us combine,
which regulators did, and nobody's had any objection since because
that turned out to be true. That's kind of what
I'm saying with combat sports, Like maybe, like with boxing
and MMA, there's only a certain amount of percentage that
are willing to watch those kind of sports, and they've

(01:46:19):
got to compete against all other sports and entertainment things
and like that. So what I'm getting at is maybe
we are at a point where all this really needs
to get combined to be viable. Like under like one
and bro, like you're still gonna have the sport of
boxing and the sport of MMA, but like maybe just.

Speaker 2 (01:46:39):
Like one promotion like almost worldwide is.

Speaker 4 (01:46:42):
Gonna have all of it, and then they're gonna space
out the dates logically and like and have a broadcast
deal like like maybe that's the only way really it's
gonna make it going forward.

Speaker 1 (01:46:53):
Right in it in it that would help organize the potentially,
that's for sure. But yeah, well I don't know, man,
I do think that I don't know if they would
have got that number, I'd say the number isn't overpaid.
But to your point that the Amazon did it with

(01:47:13):
the NBA. Now, the NBA eighteen to thirty four still
performs at a high rate, and the Amazon proved on
Thursday nights at the NFL that is the highest demo
eighteen to thirty four out of all the anything the
NFL shows, that's the highest demo. So they, you know,
thinking that way too. And then we've always said, there's

(01:47:35):
there's two right now, is there going to be a third? Well,
that's Paramount. We gotta do something right. Well, that's right,
there's room for three. That's what That's what the New
York Times breakdown with the players. There was gonna be
room for three, and two of them were Netflix and Amazon, right,
So Paramount saying, hey, we want to be number three. Right.

(01:47:55):
And there was clearly a checklist for the merger's political
there was a checklist that had to be checked for
the for the for the merger, was this little extra
part of the checklist. It feels like it's just off
the number. But I don't know that. I don't know.
One thing I have noticed is their gates have gone up.

(01:48:17):
But like I said, is CBS getting the gates? You know,
like how much are they getting out of the lives gate?
I don't know about that part. Maybe he's getting it
all up, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:48:30):
Laugh, but we laugh, but we know it's a figure
and it's and with the deal they got. Yeah, it's
part of I mean, you've got the President of the
United States saying he's going to have a fun He's gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:48:39):
Have in the White White House.

Speaker 2 (01:48:41):
On July fourth.

Speaker 1 (01:48:42):
So conspiracy or or oh I don't like this or that,
or I I voted independent or what. It has nothing
to do with that. It's just if there was a
clear checklist and they got a little extra money.

Speaker 4 (01:48:56):
No, it's it's not conspiracy. This is just a reality
like here, That's what I'm saying. And like whatever your politics. Like,
I mean, President of the United States is saying there's
going to be a UFC fight and.

Speaker 1 (01:49:06):
There's a bipartisan bill ready to get at the White
House on July fourth, you know, white.

Speaker 4 (01:49:15):
Who was you know, standing on stage with Trump after election.
I mean we're not like we're not. This is not
any kind of conspiracy stretch. I mean, he's getting to
deal with paramount. I mean, like you said, mergers are
going on. I mean, you know, right, And I'm with you.
I'm not saying a conspiracy. There's no direct I'm not

(01:49:35):
saying there's some direct payment going on here.

Speaker 1 (01:49:38):
With no no, no, it's just the influence number would
be that number, that's all.

Speaker 2 (01:49:44):
I don't think it would be either.

Speaker 4 (01:49:45):
I mean I just think, you know, it's the politics
of it, Like I don't think there's like a direct
you know, like kick back to anybody or like anything,
but just that it's because of political influence. I mean, look,
I mean, look look who was Look who was that
President Trump's inauguration. People who weren't traditional necessary supporters, just

(01:50:08):
trying to kiss ass to get into these kind of positions.
They're so you can't say because the truth people people
that are just people that are just so into money
and their business over anything else that hey, I gotta
have a piece of it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:22):
Let's take a meeting, if you know, right, they just
gotta have a beating.

Speaker 4 (01:50:29):
So it's kind of that that kind of a thing.
But so you know, look the AA White's got the
legislation coming. I mean you know, oh yeah, I think
something needed to happen. But that's it's all tied in.

Speaker 1 (01:50:40):
By partisan is so hard these days. If they already
have a by Parson there.

Speaker 2 (01:50:44):
They've got bipartisan too.

Speaker 1 (01:50:46):
They've got just making the little window dressing with the
hell stuff they can make that they're gonna sell it
that way that the politicians it's gonna pass. It's just
gonna pass. There's no way it's not gonna pass. Now,
they better get it done in the next year, right
before sure, once once midterms, then we'll see if it

(01:51:06):
would pass, but it's gonna pass before that.

Speaker 4 (01:51:08):
Yeah, no, they better get it done. They better get it.
It's something to change.

Speaker 2 (01:51:12):
I just want to see. I just want to see
something happen at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:51:15):
I mean, just it'd be interesting to see if Probox
use their their facility. Uh and if that spawned then too,
because I think it's like a rehab center where they
have those live fights. And by the way, that facility
that the UFC has, they are adding a bunch of
seats to it, like I heard like five thousand seats

(01:51:37):
or whatever, So I mean, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:51:39):
That fits the developmental theory right exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:51:42):
So we'll see where that goes. I just hope they
don't get a deal and then only do the development
if they don't have the real development guys to develop,
not just hey man, these guys are tough dudes. Man.
I don't want to see a bunch of bar fights,
you know what I mean. I'd like to see high
level guys. But we'll see, we'll see how it goes.

Speaker 4 (01:52:03):
If the fights are entertaining though, if that's that's almost
the key to me, Like, you know, people you can
have pures. But if it's entertaining.

Speaker 1 (01:52:14):
That is true. I mean, you know, the you know,
the slap of slap boxing did well, so someone thinks
that's entertaining. So I'm just saying, like, is it gonna
be club?

Speaker 2 (01:52:27):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:52:28):
Are we gonna so they have match Like I want
to know who their matchmakers are for boxing, you know
what I mean? Because if it's club level stuff, then
it better be like some of the club shows I've
gone to, where like you said, it's just one after
another they're gonna beat each other's brains in Yeah, that
might work for a while, but I do think you

(01:52:49):
have to have some guys, just high, higher level guys,
you know what I mean. If you're gonna have a deal,
why fuck it up with Let's hope we can develop
some guys.

Speaker 4 (01:52:59):
We get is like, but I know what you're saying,
Like I look at it this way too, like like
when I'm watching prospects because it matters and it's it's entertainment,
but also usually to me is probably the first thing
for how how far they're gonna go, and then you
know they have some defense after that, But like firepower,
I see your point there. Like for what I'm looking

(01:53:20):
for like, if the guys were so bad and they
were trying to brawl, they wouldn't even have a delivery
system where it'd be any like firepower.

Speaker 1 (01:53:29):
That's what I'm saying. And then you're gonna tell me
the best fight and the best I don't know who.
No one's in the top ten here, so this isn't
so then it becomes another belt, you know, That's what
I'm saying. You know, we we've talked about what ranking systems.
Who's doing the ranking system, because if you're gonna have
your own belt, you better have a damn good ranking system.

(01:53:49):
And then if you're gonna rank everybody champion or not,
then clearly you have access to those fighters with Saudi.
Clearly you do. So that's what I'm hoping. It's at
least a blend of that, you know what I mean.
But either way, we shall see. Let's see Ortiz Lubin

(01:54:10):
Fandora Thurman Fandora Thurman. Obviously we'd love that on an
Amazon Prime right from a pay per view. But just
breaking down the fight is Thurman's leg good Thurman legs
hold up because I think stylistically, John the pot shots,
the jab, all the stuff, that gives Fondora problems. I
think it's there, but man, is he going to be

(01:54:32):
able to do that for all twelve rounds?

Speaker 4 (01:54:34):
You know, I don't think. I don't think it's tough.
I don't think Thurman could hold them off at this point. Yeah,
you know, and Fondora star going to leverage and stuff.
That's more to me, Chris, like what we said, like
we're we were telling people like, look, you know, we're
just telling you who's going to bring some sale from
a pure business perspective, not whether these guys should be

(01:54:58):
fighting for other reasons. I'm I mean, that's like Frondora
and Thurman. I mean, it's like PBC trying to squeeze
every last drop out of things. Two guys that have
gotten enough exposure that they're going to throw them together,
trying to make it a pay per view.

Speaker 2 (01:55:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:55:13):
I mean that's the only No matter what, anybody, this
is really the only reason the fight's happening.

Speaker 1 (01:55:18):
Right, It's the solid front door.

Speaker 2 (01:55:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:55:21):
So I mean I'm with you, like, yeah, if you
would have made it at least with those guys have
a name recognition for where the sport is today on
an Amazon Prime, not pay per view.

Speaker 2 (01:55:32):
Well, then you could. I could say on that basis
it might still.

Speaker 4 (01:55:35):
Help the sport somewhat, even though I'm not crazy about
the matchup. But to do it then, to squeeze one
last drop out of a pay per view for yeah,
I mean, come on, I mean that's what I thought
when I saw that sign.

Speaker 1 (01:55:48):
I'm like, come on, yeah, I just for twelve rounds.
I just don't the legs. It'd be so tough to
pull that off at this age. And then the body,
you know, is it finally gonna be a body shout
that actually takes him out? You know, Yeah, that's what
it feels like, you know, And then you know, you

(01:56:10):
got artis in the Zaya's talk speaking of a pay
view that doesn't even on pay per view. They got
they had a pay per view offer on his own
Zaia's because he's the titleist or whatever thought he was
too good for the dealer or whatever. So it looks
like it's gonna be lubin.

Speaker 4 (01:56:28):
I was thinking of that where we're at, when we're
top ranksmo, even at this point, I was thinking they're
gonna put Zias in with Ortiz.

Speaker 2 (01:56:35):
Now no, no, no, they're not. But lubin arties, you know,
people like, yeah, look, it's not a bad fight.

Speaker 4 (01:56:42):
I mean, these are like it's like you and I
are talking, Chris, like yeah, you know if this was
on the old like.

Speaker 2 (01:56:49):
Even it was like on Showtime as a doubleheader or something,
but like you.

Speaker 1 (01:56:52):
Are like one fifty four Fox, you know what we got.

Speaker 4 (01:56:57):
But when they're talking like you know this is gonna
be on some point platform that's limited and these two
guys are fighting, I'm like, it's not that good of
a fight.

Speaker 1 (01:57:05):
Like you know, it's not bad TV, TV.

Speaker 4 (01:57:08):
Legit top ten, but like you know, not like where
I'm supposed to go hunting for it, for where I'm
going to you know, where I'm going to see it
or have to pay for it or something that you know,
not not it's not that.

Speaker 2 (01:57:19):
Kind of fight.

Speaker 1 (01:57:20):
I mean, if they don't keep that on his own,
I don't know to tell you.

Speaker 4 (01:57:23):
And you know I've said this about Virgil Ortiz before,
I'm going to keep saying. I mean, this is a guy.
To me, he's like one of the big victims of
the modern where the broadcast thing's gotten bad, Like this
is a guy who like should be a star and
like who's really really outside of hardcore boxing fans. You
look at his TV history, his broadcast history's who's seen him?

Speaker 2 (01:57:45):
Who? Nobody?

Speaker 1 (01:57:47):
He was making some headway as a ticket seller too,
and yeah, it's just it's all come to a complete stop, basically.

Speaker 2 (01:57:53):
Total waste to me.

Speaker 4 (01:57:54):
I mean, a guy, you know, with an entertaining style, talent,
New Mexican American. I mean, the guy could be guy
could be a you know, he could be even in
the world of the sport we're at today, he could
be a much bigger star and.

Speaker 1 (01:58:11):
Definitely a casuals like this dude, you know what I mean,
would like this guy if if they met him, meet him. Yeah,
casuals I got you know, you're like I got a friend,
you too, would be you two would be great together.
Yeah you gotta meet my buddy. But they're just not
gonna meet. Yeah, exactly, you know so, but yeah, or

(01:58:33):
teas man, it's now that he's over what the issue was, Well,
hopefully knock on wood, that's done with that stuff. But
uh yeah, like you said, good fight. You know us
old schoolers are called a good TV fight. It's gonna
be a brawl, it's gonna be fun. But where does
it lead? You know, nobody's gonna see it all that stuff. Yeah,

(01:58:56):
I think, you know, I got some I got some
feedback and some pushback from the monopoly thing that we
talked about with the Ali Act. And it's like, you know,
when mergers happen, it's not like everybody in the company
gets fired. Not everybody. You know, like they could still
operate their operation, you know, you know, they could still

(01:59:18):
have matchmakers and all. They could still operate, but it'd
be there. It's not they wouldn't be since they got
paid John, they wouldn't worry about risking a guy as
much either, and it would I think that would help
to not be so oh, you know, let's hold off
on that. No, let's make the fights. And now it'd

(01:59:38):
be more of a competition, like a pride thing, like,
hey man, we're gonna make the best damn fights. You know,
we're already paid. We're good. Now we can just let
these guys fight on no pressure almost, you know, in
a sense. And that's the more I'm looking at it
like that. I'm not looking at it like because you know,
I don't know. I mean, Dana's shown in the UFC

(01:59:58):
has shown that they can have, you know, hundreds of
guys under contract. But can they do that also with
boxing all by themselves. I doubt it. You know, you
do matchmaking, you know, so it's an overall picture of
it's just like, uh, you know, like like I mentioned,
just buy out the belts and go with the run

(02:00:20):
with the WBC. Then that's it. That just just that.
But that means you bought out everybody else, you know,
and and and I don't know, it's like to me,
that's the only way it can work, you know, and
it's a monopoly. But they're still competing against each other though,
you know what I mean, they'd still be competing, you know,
and then we could do those top ranked PBC cards

(02:00:42):
or whatever, you know, like right, I don't I think
people thought, like, I don't know, I just don't have
a mindset. I think I think you could still have
all these a fair amount of these uh people that
are involved in our experts in the field. You know,
they'd still be involved. Uh, It's just I think it'd
be less risk and not as much pressure because you're like, hey,

(02:01:02):
d we already made our money. Let's just make the
best fights we can. And then then I don't know.
I feel like it would spawn some more competition, you know,
instead of withholding it and building to the big fight
only you know, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:01:15):
It's where we're at now is not working. I mean,
you know we need agreement on that first. I mean,
where we're at now is not working. I mean, you know,
see that that's the thing. There's people trying to argue that,
like what's going on now is working, and it's not working.
You and I want the fighters to make as much
as possible. I'll still say that, and maybe that's something
we got to solve with whatever comes next.

Speaker 2 (02:01:36):
But where we're at now, where we're at now is
not working, and it's.

Speaker 1 (02:01:40):
So hard with the contract for everybody to unionize people
just trying. Yeah, it's not that easy though. It's really
not that it can be. You could say not difficult,
but I don't know, I don't know. They obviously need
representation and that's where a guy like al Al is
legit when it comes to hey, dude, my guys are

(02:02:02):
gonna get what they're worth though, you know what I mean.
So I think he's a good guy to have there
because he has shown that and was there over pay
compared to what HBO was putting out, sure, but it
wasn't anything near what we got over paid now nowhere
near that shit. And by the way, the first chunk

(02:02:22):
of years they were getting ratings, they were getting ratings
that we had to go back to the early two
thousands and nineties. And that's what people don't realize, Like
you realize Turkey could have done very similar path with
all these great fights and just whatever. You know, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:02:38):
I mean, he made a mistake there.

Speaker 4 (02:02:39):
I think he, I really do, seriously think, because it's
not that easy, like like you said, unless you have
other people you're talking to stuff. I think he kind
of didn't get the US sensibility part in terms of
exposing it and exposing what he was.

Speaker 2 (02:02:55):
Trying to do. I think Turkey kind of missed that part.

Speaker 1 (02:02:59):
Right.

Speaker 4 (02:02:59):
He's kind of getting it a little bit with this
Netflix with the Crawford canal right, because he.

Speaker 1 (02:03:04):
Had the money to do it. I mean exactly, he.

Speaker 2 (02:03:07):
Could have done a time by, like we're saying, he
could have done a.

Speaker 1 (02:03:09):
Time the time by you could have bought with that
type of money, you know, and it's you could have
still minorly overpaid these guys. You know, minorly just to
get them, you know. And that's the frustrating part. And
and but yet we didn't get the media backlash. Meanwhile,
sure there's things you can say we said them about

(02:03:32):
the PBC, but you know, for a chunk of time
there they were getting fucking ratings.

Speaker 2 (02:03:37):
You know, I had.

Speaker 1 (02:03:37):
People saying, oh, who's that guy? Even the guy who
lost John I get a phone call, Hey, who do
when's he fighting next? You know, not even worried about
the winner, you know, because they were actually on it
was it was working there for a second.

Speaker 4 (02:03:50):
Plus, what they were trying to do is what they're
trying to do. What they were trying to do with
twenty fifteen is basically what wh in Turkey and these
people have the political muscle to do now in twenty
twenty five.

Speaker 1 (02:04:06):
To the old old promoters, and White was.

Speaker 4 (02:04:10):
White was complimentary of what Hayman was trying to do.
Ten I mean, you know, right out and straight out
quoted in interview. So I mean, like Al Hayman had
the right idea ten years ago. But see that's what
I would say too, Like that to me, you know, yeah,
people that hated PBC and didn't like Al Haman. You know,

(02:04:32):
they liked that it happened, but I thought it was
a shame because you know, it really wasn't the purpose
of the Ali Act for you know, Hayman to really
get blocked from what he was trying to do, which
was he was trying to do something like what we got.

Speaker 2 (02:04:44):
Now. You know, he's not known for underpaying or cheating
his fighters. I mean, like we.

Speaker 1 (02:04:50):
Said in that lawsuit, they couldn't find a fighter to go.

Speaker 4 (02:04:55):
They couldn't find anybody to go against him. So it
was and I was arguing out at the time. I
was and like, look, this guy's known for getting his
fighters paid well and treating him well. He just knows
the sport needs to move to this place to be viable,
and he's trying to get the ratings. And he was
like like again, the first year, they didn't mention in
alphabet on one broadcast, so you know what they wanted

(02:05:17):
to do.

Speaker 2 (02:05:17):
But it was a good thing, not a bad thing.

Speaker 4 (02:05:19):
But you got all the haters, the resistance, and and
like some people criticize now competitors who were who were
not really or were just panicked, not really looking at
what might help the sport and maybe with all boats
just panicked and we got to stop paying.

Speaker 2 (02:05:35):
We got to stop payment.

Speaker 1 (02:05:36):
Yeah, and the media clearly was tied to the old promoters. Yeah,
obviously you'd hope that was the reason, because otherwise it's
worse reasons, you know. Yeah, right, you know, then we
get in the races and all that stuff. That's right,
you'd hope that you were Yeah, that would have been
the best that could have been, right, have been the
best outcome, because otherwise you're really exposing yourself. Now, you know,

(02:05:58):
he saw that funny. So yeah, we'll see, we'll see. Uh, well,
we'll keep talking it through. But I appreciate you stopping in,
nice in depth conversation that we had. Per usual, you
have yourself.

Speaker 4 (02:06:12):
Good night, John, Yeah, Chris Craig talking to you has
always take it easy.

Speaker 2 (02:06:16):
Have a good one you.

Speaker 1 (02:06:17):
Too, alrighty, So real quick that pro box event from
last Friday, I thought, I thought, you know, I know,
as a majority decision, I believe it wasn't a split.

(02:06:38):
It was a majority, right, Yeah, because yeah, because there
was a ninety five ninety five. I thought Mohammed I
thought he won that. I thought he won that Castille
look good against Bunch and if anyone has Swerve, like
I have Direct TV stream and they have Swerve, that

(02:06:58):
card was on that too. You can find it on YouTube,
you can find it on the app, you can find
it on you know. So just just the heads up
for people that don't know that either way, you're watching
it on your your ship. Either way. Like I said,
Design has a bunch of cards. Clenshaw in what is it?

(02:07:19):
It's like SETI or something. Let me check. That's probably
the closest fight match that's tomorrow night, if I'm not mistaken. Yes,
you have Zu and uh Ismali. I think that's really
I don't see that being a that could have a

(02:07:39):
fight that Jarvis Jarvis's Brock Jarvis is the guy that
Thurman took care of, no problem. You do have Joolvas
Gomez in action. There's there's some fights out there this week.
And you have Rafferty Chamberlain. I think that uh Chamberlain

(02:08:00):
is like a plus two hundred and up plus two.
I think that's a good fight. So it is one
of those. And we have a Cordova is an action
Joannis Teles. I think he's an action right. I'm pretty
sure he's on that. But literally It's one of those

(02:08:23):
things where I'm not going to preview and predict all
of it, but I do think that we could get
some pretty solid recap. We've kind of gone along as
it is. But yeah, Riviera Bailey div is back in
action against like Wile or something like that. But like

(02:08:43):
that Rafferty Chamberlain that's Afternoon showed his own I could
see that being good that, you know. So that's that's
my opinion. I think those would be pretty good. Gazalz Flores. Yeah,
four let's see here, one, two, three, four, five. So

(02:09:05):
between Friday and Saturday they have five cards. It could
you split up some of these so we didn't have
to have some of those dead weekends. But anyway, as
far as the schedule goes, I did hear on brunch Boxing.
Shots out to brunch Boxing. They have a new format

(02:09:27):
on Twitter where you can watch the show and also
subscribe to the YouTube channel because they're live on YouTube
as well. They were talking about a Spence Charlo co headline.
That's kind of interesting, see how that goes. Jim Cross

(02:09:50):
speaking of that Jarvis beckfight, he said some extreme line
movement for this Jarvis beckfight. Jarvis opened at minus seven
hundred is down to minus one seventy. Yeah, that's pretty crazy.
That that is pretty crazy. I did see on boxing
Twitter on this day, nineteen ninety five, Tyson and mcneelly

(02:10:16):
first fight, you know, after the prison sentence. I know
exactly where I was that night, And say what you
want about McNeely dude. That motherfucker lived up to his word.
He said I'm coming, no pause, he said I'm coming
to fight, and that's exactly what he did. And then

(02:10:39):
he parlayed like a Domino's Pizza shit off and so
shots out to McNeely dude boxing Twitter. If Jared Anderson
never fought Pacoli and kept stepping up slowly racking up
dominant wins, he would be in the running for an
USIK fight. The racking up dominant wins against would that

(02:11:01):
be Someone made a good point. We were talking about
the US as far as you know, dwindling some with
the live stuff, significant domestic fights that have taken place
in Saudi and they named off Wardley, Adelette, Cordina, Kakachi, Whittaker, Cameron,

(02:11:27):
not that it was great, but Wardley, Clark, Clark, two, Fisher, Allen.
You know it is true you're gonna have some of
the fights in Saudi. Obviously they're they're flipping the bill.
But let's hope that they figure that out. I mean,
they have shown more, it feels like more this year now.
So and then Bradman brought up this pound for poundless

(02:11:50):
from the eighties. Hearns Aguayo, Leonard Gomez, Sanchez home Sphinx
Hagler prior to Duran who good, golly oh. I meant
to say, I'm seeing this still shot that someone sent
me a screenshot of Moses ripping down the guard. He

(02:12:16):
does that and fights. I like that where you you know,
you want to create some space that way you rip
down there our boom. Maybe there was master at it,
but yeah, Kabiel Parker, Wardley Hunter, like, there's so many
fights and I'm not saying, you know, Moses has got
to fight ten more fights then he'll be ready for
USA because that doesn't even line up. But I don't know.

(02:12:37):
According to The Boxing Voice, Adie Hearn said, does the
Zone deal expiring next year? Our plan is absolutely to
extend with the Zone. They've been a great partner. We're
a huge part of their business. We know as well.
There'd be other opportunities in different markets, but we love
the relationship with Zone for our global plan and our

(02:12:59):
global of events. There are perfect partner globally. They like
everyone likes to say global boxing, We're gonna grow this
sport globally. That's not how you say that, But I
was just fucking around. Victor Conte tried to call out
Lubin because memo, you know memo, they they don't like

(02:13:23):
each other. Uh. He said, facts, the facts are, the
fight is isn't finalized, so go fuck your out, basically,
but hopefully that's getting done. I saw Cordo Booker said,
good morning, Eryl Spence. Does that mean that's the comeback fight?
I also saw Ring Magazine the Ring has learned his excellency, Uh,

(02:13:46):
preferences to see Moses, Moses go for Usak. Nah, dude,
don't do that. Do not do that. Jim Cross hergevic
a j de Bois three fights that it told me
could could do their thing and marketable and all that stuff.
I like that. I like that. I heard Boachuk and
Brandon Adams saw this on Boxing Scene, the rematch on

(02:14:10):
the undercard. Maybe that's like a pre limb of a Canelo.
I don't know Canelo Crawford obviously, let's see here did
you do? Do I think someone mentioned anyone else noticed

(02:14:31):
that this is the only event talking about that Saudi event,
that Sadi that's not commissioned by the BBC or the
BBB up C. Is it because Dillon White is banned
to fight in the UK? I mean, you know, do
Xander Zaia stuff like he was saying, it's not talking

(02:14:55):
about it's not a real offer. The answer is yes,
come meet in Puerto Rico. The thing is, dude, like
they had a venue, they had a split. You know,
it's it wasn't it seemed like a real offer. You know.
I did hear news about Russell and Hitchins negotiating for unification.

(02:15:19):
Signed me up for that. That's kind of an interesting fight. Turkey,
I saw this on ring. Turkey also said he squashed
the rumors there was these benevitas, but turbav since they're
fighting on the same card that oh you know what,
they're gonna scrap it. They're just gonna make that fight now.
They're not, No, they're not, he said. But the fight

(02:15:39):
could well take place in twenty twenty six if they
both win. But we know, there's a trilogy and blah
blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (02:15:48):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (02:15:49):
So I'm not getting my hopes up. Oh the Paro Trinidad.
I forgot to mention that that was a draw, right,
that that was a good fight. That was a good fight.
Someone sent that to me. That was that was that
was good. Also saw from boxing scene. Lamont Roach says
that he's moving on. Doesn't look like it's happening again.

(02:16:11):
We still haven't heard from his camp specifically when it
comes to the business. So it is what it is.
We're moving on and we just can't sit around and
drink our feet. The best bet is to try and
restructure and structure something. If not, we're going to move on.
So he's sending a shot saying, hey dog, you know,
let's get the ball rolling bachrum bakrahm. It sounds like

(02:16:35):
he's got a fight announcement coming up, so we'll see
where that goes. U do do oh someone Dan the
boxing Man. Someone sent me a screenshot of his tweet.
Prospect Carlos Garcia Alberto returns August twenty third on Pluto

(02:16:57):
TV YouTube livestream. Yeah, he's a guy likes to move
his hands. Uh, so he's he's all action. He's definitely
all action. Someone said, did you see the body shot
from Ali cat? I did? That was nasty? That was nasty. Oh,

(02:17:21):
here's the spit Bucket podcast. How truly effective is the
Ali Act if it only applies to fights held in
the US. We're seeing a bigger president across the pond
today when it was signed. Blah blah blah blah, fans
will be more changing now to go to fights overseas

(02:17:42):
to Sadi. Basically, you're not gonna make a law here
that's gonna apply to Saudi or the UK or anything.
You're just not So it makes no sense to be like,
how truly effective? Like you could say, how truly effective
is the Ali Act without a supervising committee? That's fine,
But to say that if it only applies to you, yes,

(02:18:02):
I mean how is it? But you're not going to
pass something that's going to apply to that, So that
makes no sense. Suleiman WBC confirms Taylor Cameron trilogy. Interesting, okay,
why not? Why not? I think let me see here.

(02:18:26):
I think that about wraps it up. We'll see where Zufa.
We'll see where Zuofa is with the new deal and
what it looks like. Anyway, I'm gonna get out of here.
There's a bunch of cards and I say it like
it's a broken record. But on these weekends where nobody's

(02:18:48):
looking for shit and no it's his own car. Oh
this car. Okay, Yeah, that'll be interesting. There's fights that
pop the fuck off there just is it just happens, man,
And there's five cards and those shit that's gonna pop
off hardcore is know what I'm talking about. Hopefully we're
gonna have a decent amount of recap because it is light.

(02:19:09):
It is late for for a little bit here. You know,
July was really good, August, you know, So we'll see,
we'll see. Hopefully we got something to talk about in
a major way coming back recapping. Anyway, I'm gonna get
out of here. Enjoy the fights. We're back next week.

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