April 16, 2025 • 46 mins
Ashes Rugby League is a podcast dedicated to previewing the most anticipated international series in two decades!
Join Lee Addison and John Davidson for analysis, news, interviews with guests, history lessons and lots more to help whet your appetite for the 2025 series between England and Australia!
Lee is an Englishman who has coached at NRL clubs and lived in Australia a LONG time. John is an Australian journalist based in the UK for many a year!
You can find and reach out to Lee at rugbyleaguecoach.com.au and John on X at @johnnyddavidson
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-rugby-league-coach-podcast--5572032/support.
Join Lee Addison and John Davidson for analysis, news, interviews with guests, history lessons and lots more to help whet your appetite for the 2025 series between England and Australia!
Lee is an Englishman who has coached at NRL clubs and lived in Australia a LONG time. John is an Australian journalist based in the UK for many a year!
You can find and reach out to Lee at rugbyleaguecoach.com.au and John on X at @johnnyddavidson
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-rugby-league-coach-podcast--5572032/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello everybody, and welcome to the first Ashes Rugby League podcast,
and then said the Rugby League Coach Podcast. Then, John,
my name is Lee. I am an Englishman and I
live in Australia.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm John Davidson. I'm an Australian who lives in England.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm Lee Addison and I'm the host of the Rugby
League Coach podcast Rugby League Coach dot com. But say
you brought out a book called Rugby League Coach and
it's got a subtitle, but I can't bother reading it
out if you want that. Johnny is a freelance journalist
and also the host of the Buy the Balls podcast. John,
you might as well well have got you. Just give
us some news from England. What's happening in the rugby
(00:42):
league world in England right now? Apart from the Ashes?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, yeah, I was gonna say ticket Siles ticket, but
I mean the Air's there's numerous things are rumbling and
obviously talk of nr O Europe and takeovers. Tom Moone
has left the Bulldog and signed for Castleford for the
rest of these issue and we'll be joining ok R
next year. Who's a Hendyr replacement for Jared Murray Harghgroves
(01:08):
who will retiring at the end of this year after
the last trious career in UH, particularly for the Roosters
and obviously for New Zealand. And then yeah, the Soffur situation,
as you know as a Sulfur boy, continues to rumble
on in the background. So there's always there's always things,
that thing's happening.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
We so this we might as well talk about the
Ashes because this is what people have tuned into some
myself and John have got together to put together an
Ashes Rugby League podcast. We think it's a nice little
niche and there isn't any others that we're aware of
that are dedicated purely to the Ashes. Myself and John
are obviously swapped countries. I would like to say that
(01:48):
I lived in John's leafy suburb in Sheffield is opulent surroundings,
but I didn't. I came from the rough, mean streaks
of Salford and I've ended up in Brisbane. But John
is a Novocastrian from Newcastle and a Manly Seagles fan.
I guess what we'll talk about first, John is what
the pod, what we will intend to cover in the
(02:10):
coming weeks, and I guess one thing I've been really
conscious of is how many people probably don't know the ashes.
There's two generations of people who probably wouldn't have a
clue how big they are, and so on that end,
I want to start with a very big question straight up,
What does the ashes mean to John Davidson.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I guess that's a great question. I mean, I
think if you look at any well, if you look
at Australia and England, or Australia in the UK as
training Great Britain, it's rathery, isn't it. It's it's you know,
the mother country, the relationship. And I think the ashes
just is whether it's cricket, whether it's rugby league. Obviously
(02:52):
you know rugby union ashes, but there's a you know,
a strong rivalry there. It just means RIVALI it means history,
it means it means culture, and I think in rugby
league it's always been the biggest rivalry for what over
one hundred years, but it's slipped off that pecking because
we haven't had it for twenty two years. So yeah,
(03:13):
I was thinking the same thing lead the other day.
There's at least a generation of not if not more
of twenty two years of people who've never seen the ashes.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So you even those of the previous generation to that,
so let's call three generations, they'll have never seen a
proper tool, yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
You know the famous Kangaroo Tours and the Great Britain
Tours down and yeah they've never seen them. And you
know you can there's a number of reasons why that
slipped off the pecking Obviously state of origin. You know,
the Kiwis have risen, We've got the Pacific Nations now,
but yeah, we kind of lost that tradition history, so
we are bringing you back and I think it's very
(03:51):
very exciting. You look at the demand in the UK
for tickets, that's you know, a massive indicator that people
want this series and they want to see England against
Australia the twenty seveneen World Cup Final rematch only only
eight years later.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I mean, I find that hideous that England or Great
Britain have not played Australia for that longway. Yeah, I mean,
we'll try not get too political, but yeah, I'm just
gonna I'm not going to start with a small word hideous.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Well, I know there was there was going to be
a Kangaroo Tour in twenty twenty and COVID killed that
and then I think it was the way it was
all lined up was England was going to play Australia
in the twenty twenty two World Cup final, wasn't it?
But then its them one in Golden Point and knocked
England out, So it was smaller in Australia in the final.
So yeah, but you are right. I mean, for you know,
(04:44):
the regular league. In regular league, the top three countries
of Australia, England, New Zealand and in fact Australian England
haven't played together is for so long. He's not great,
So we're changing that. So let's yeah, we'll be positive.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So I think that in this podcast, which we intend
to bring out roughly fortnightly, but we're trying not to
stick to too big a schedule, Owy John, because we've
got other things going on. But I think one of
the things we have to do is teach some people
some history of the Ashes and some historical things. Now,
in terms of what the Ashes means to me, I'm
(05:19):
going to start with another big word everything because it
was literally as a as an English kid growing up
in Rugby League, it was almost Great Britain first and
then you supported your team second. And I think the
Super League year brought in a bigger connection with clubs
(05:40):
and then I think the modern ear are tend to
link to players a little bit too so. But my
generation we're obsessed with Great Britain rugby league, those who
were interested in rugby league. And I used to be
in awe of the of the these Green and Gold
that came over to our country every four years as
I was young. In the television in nineteen eighty eight,
(06:03):
for example, when England or Great Britain were in Australia
was a little bit delayed and things like that. Sometimes
the coverage would get disjointed or interrupted. I'll never forget
my dad's face when he woke up late one morning
for some reason. I was on the sofa that day.
We had some visitors or something, and I woke up early,
(06:24):
which is very rare for me, and I turned the
TV on and Britain were beating Australia, and I'll never
forget my dad's face when he noticed the score. And
I was a young kid then I was near I
was nine years old, and I'm thinking to myself it
must mean something, this ashes think because my dad's face
just said it all. He was almost in disbelief that
(06:47):
Britain were beating Australia because it had been ten years.
Then right now it's twenty years. But sorry, nineteen so
I'll get accused of being negative. So straight away I
was sort of told that meant something to me. Nineteen
ninety happened. I genuinely believe the Second Test of nineteen ninety,
(07:08):
of nineteen ninety at Old Trafford is literally one of
the greatest games of rugby league that has ever ever
taken place. For those of a good you told me
if you can.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I was just going to say, yeah, I think. I
think those are the earliest memories of me. And I
get them because I've seen so many clips. I get them,
and my memory is terrible, but I get those confused.
The ninety ninety four, the Ricky Stewart inside the Momentinger
match winner at the death, and then you know, there's.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
The nineteen ninety Yeah, the Second Test, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, and I think I think that's my earliest memory.
And then there's the Cliffy Lions one. But I think
if you look at that ninety nineteen ninety four. They
were basically games. The series went down right to the wide.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
In ninety two in Australia was a really good series.
So the two series in my life lifetime that have
been literally nip and talk were the nineteen ninety series
between Great Britain and Australia in England and the nineteen
ninety two series Australia versus Great Britain. What happened was
(08:14):
Australia won the first Test at the Sydney Football Stadium.
Martin Offia ran down the wing and andrew Ettinghouse and
clipped him and managed to just knock his foot into
touch by a few millimeters. It actually happened twice. The
second Test was in Melbourne and it wasn't at the
current stadium. It was at the old Melbourne Stadium because
(08:36):
the current stadium obviously didn't exist, and neither did a
couple of the other stadiums in the area. Is that
Olympic Park? Have I got that right?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It was Olympic That was the Scoe. That was the
Scoe Test.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Wasn't it Scoe? And Paul Eastwood was the kicker and
was going through the biggest rigmarole at every single kick
and we actually flogged the OSSes that night. It was
something like thirty three ten really gave it to them
and that went to the third Test too, So I'd
say those two tests series were competitive. Nineteen ninety four.
(09:07):
I was full of anticipation for that. Britain won the
first Test. Jonathan Davis scored after not long after Sean
Edwards got sent off for head hiring Bradley Clyde. Yeah,
when you're doing it just like a good Australian ward
to an Englishman and Britain were down to twelve, but
(09:28):
Jonathan Davis sneaked in before halftime in the corner, scored
a great try actually, and we hung on to win
that Test eight six sometimeted to say or eight four.
A very little thing known about that series. We felt
at the time it was close, buff you actually look
at it. Great Brookin scored two tries in that series
(09:51):
and that was one of them, the Jonathan Davis try,
So it probably wasn't as close as we think. British
coach he was basically a coach. He'd never coached anyone
from memory at the time, and we probably lacked that
edge that malt Riley brought and he's doing things tough
at the minute, so obviously we send out our best
(10:11):
wishes there. And yeah, the Aussies put Britain to the
sword in the second Test, in particular Old Trafford. And
then now we're going into the memory bank a little bit.
Do you remember the nineteen ninety seven Super League Tests
that seemed to have been scrubbed from history, have been
(10:35):
rub from the John Davidson memory bank.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Well, I haven't. I haven't even been scrub for them, everybody,
because I think obviously I grew up in Newcastle and
inm A mainly fan, so we were dead banging the
r L. See we were, you know, we were a
r L diehards and Newcastle was probably the the capital
of the Arl music movement. So we anti HANDA Mariners
(11:01):
were everything Super League, the real, the real competition was
the r L and all those other bastards. So now
I know that I vaguely I remember being conscious of
the try nations, didn't they?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
But yeah, that was yeah for the for the origin
they had an origin try nation, yes, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Then we had the we had the real origin of
ninety five and ninety six, and obviously the ninety five
battlers of Queensland with the biggest upset in from the
rugby league history.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So you can imagine why British rugby league fans were
ready to end it all after ninety five and ninety
seven because the game was split in two in Australia.
In Australia. Nineteen ninety five, England beat Australia in the
opener of the World Cup. I remember because Diana Ross
(11:51):
sung before the game. You did it and it was
the first time I ever went down to London on
my own without the parents, so that was a big
pivotal moment in my life. And I was about twenty
eight No, no, I'm joking. And then the final was
England versus Australia again and England basically choked a little
(12:13):
bit again quite frankly on Australia one with half a side.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So that was, yeah, I remember that. That was the
That was the Super League War, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
That was It was the the RL side, John Apola,
yea Brett Dallas that the left edge was Steve Men's's
right edge was Gary Lars and things like that, you know,
I think, Mark.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, there was a strong, mainly continuent with being the
coach and you had I think it was Andrew John's
the hooker and two half back that you were. You know,
I was a team with aut Ricky Stewart Langa ran
off all the Broncos Lori day. But yeah, the half
strength was he still managed to get over the line.
And then and I'm going to go, I'm going to
(12:56):
link this a bit what we've just said about the
half systems to the modern day. So hold that Thorne
ninety seven we had the Super League Test, which was
the other half. So your Lurie Daily, for example, was
man of the match at Wembley when they beat Britain
in the first Test. The second Test at Old Trafford,
Britain won and Andy Farrell ran the show that day.
(13:16):
I think he was playing six from memory. But of
course Australia beat us in the third Test. So quite frankly,
beating Australia in any form of series was getting further
and further from people's minds. We then had the era
of the try nations and the four Nations. So ninety
nine Britain got whacked in Australia. There's been that many
(13:38):
four Nations and try nations. I can't remember them off
the top of my head and I certainly haven't prepared
them for today because this was an overview, you know,
this is something we can dig into over the coming weeks.
And we had all the try Nations and the four Nations,
we had the World Cup. I've actually missed out the
World Cup of two thousand in that journey as well.
(14:00):
So England failed to beat Australia in the first game
and John Keir was the coach, but then we had
the trying agents and everything. But we also had a
couple of tests series which ended up being the last
in two thousand and one and two thousand and three.
Two thousand and one, ber And won the first test
under David Waite and then lost the next two. Two
(14:21):
thousand and three, Adrian Morley lasted twelve seconds in the
first game.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
If you remember, I remember that. I do remember that.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I think the excuse was Robbie Kerns stepped and he
stur was Robbie kers that hit moss arm clearly.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
There's I had a conversation with Mike Foreshore about that
at one time and basically Moza got ready in the
changing room about an hour and a half before everyone,
So he was he was in the zone and when
they were meant to rush up as a line, he
just completely bolted out the line like Mike round and
(14:57):
where's mos gone? You know?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
So I think it was a mile ahead of.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I've read his book and he was pretty keyed up.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah. So those were the last two Ashes series. Chris
Anderson on the first one in two thousand and one. Well,
first of all, they nearly didn't come because of the
terror attack September the eleventh, and it was really late
in the year. It was late November. Chris Anderson had
actually had a heart attack in the stand the Australian
coach and stayed at Morrislin's his house for a few
(15:26):
weeks after to recouperate, and Morris who was my boss
at the time, used to complain about how much of
his wine he was drinking in the house. So yeah,
So we had two thousand and one and two thousand
and three, and then we went through the era of
the of the Try Nations and Four Nations taking over.
So we had nineteen ninety nine try Nations, We had
(15:47):
a couple of Ashes series and then it went to
Four Nations. My memory needs some brushing up around there.
I don't know if you've got much on those on
some of those events, well know, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Mean I think the two thousand and three series that
was the one, and I've watched some clips of it.
I think during during COVID there was a reruns and
those are amazing games. I think in every game, Great
Britain was right in it until the final five minutes
and Australia it was a three nil series victory, but
aust basically stole it at the death. Yes, if you
(16:22):
look at the last the last AS series and if
you look at those teams on both sides are absolutely
stacked them. In Australia you've got Locker, Fittler, John's, you know,
just you know hinh Marsh, et cetera. Just absolutely stacked teams.
But then on the Great Britain side you've got equally
stacked teams as well. You know, you've got bcock. I
(16:42):
think there was Eddie Farrell, Tero O'Connor, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Leon Price, you know, yeah exactly, yeah, there was. There
was huge steps. So I think that was a really
tough one, you know, from the from the British point
of view, because they were real contests and it was
(17:04):
just that final five minutes and that seems to be
a theme. I think Bobby Gordon said an interview with
Sky Sports Radio in Australia the other week, and I
think I can remember Jonathan Thurston saying this maybe twenty
sixteen four Nations. You know that just England that last
ten minutes. You know they they compete, but it's that
(17:25):
last ten minutes they seem to drop off and that's
when Australia gets them. And I think you can if
that's the case, you tie that down in an intensity
of competition dot here over every round and it's at
the Super League, players play a lot more games than
they do in the NRL, which you can have an
impact the end of the year. But that that was
a fantastic series. And then we had I think it
was two thousand and eight, was great Britain, the Kiwis
(17:47):
and then as you said, we you know we went
back to regular World Cups two thousand and eight, thirteen
and seventeen.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, all six was the last time Britain beat Australia.
It was the game at Sydney Football. It was not long,
not long before I came to move to Australia, and
funnily enough the ribbing guy got from some of my
fellow so called friends because I was going to Australia,
(18:15):
were telling me you're going to the weak rugby league
country now because because Australia had been beaten. That was
the test where Willie Mason and Stuart Field and went
Tod to Toll.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yes, yeah, that was. That's become mythic now, hasn't it,
because it was obviously the last Great Britain went over Australia.
But that the Peacock Mason fire at the field of
me knocked out the Sean Long's face being rearranged by
Willie Mason's elbow, which probably get two years suspended. Somehow
he didn't get a red card in that game. And
then the try, wasn't it I think the winger who's
(18:50):
known as going because I think Brian Conney went off
with a with a hamstring issue. But the funny thing
because that was early on I think in that series,
and then I think Great Britain had to go to Townsville.
I'm not sure they're played, but that was the infamous
players gone on the piss. It was obviously shown Long
leone price and got a bit rowdy and then Sean
(19:11):
Long packed up and went home and then they're all
full part. So that to me from an Australian point
of view, that's just like crazy. You think they're on
the cast of something great as in winning the Four
Nations and winning that series, and they threw it all
away because they got excited a bit too excited after
one win.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
So look, I think we've got loads to one pack
just there in all these things, Like we can go
into certain details about series, we can mention them in
the podcast because there's another twenty years to go nearly
there of gain, but we have had that gap since
twenty seventeen. So this is I think why the games
are so popular. Sold the first two test venues sorry,
(19:53):
the second two have sold out basically so for those
who don't know. The first Test is at Wembley last
weekend in October, first two weeks in November. Second Test
at Everton. I've managed to get twenty two tickets for
the tour I'm running. If anybody wants to go on that,
I admit at rugbyley Coach dot com dot au please
send me an email. And the third Test at Leeds
(20:15):
completely sold out because it's only thirty eight thousand seats
or something. So Leads is an interesting one, John, because
that hasn't hosted a Test against Australia since guess when
the fifties, nineteen eighty two. We all know what happened
then the Principles.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, I've run up and watched a lot about the
Invincibles now, you know. I think that was the that
added a whole mythology to the to the history of
the artist, didn't it. But yeah, I think headingly that's
the I think it's twenty one thousand, and I understand
why they've picked that because it obviously it goes Wembley
Bramley Moore, which is the new Everson Stadium. And then
(21:00):
so you've got a ninety thousand seat stadium in London,
you've got a I think it's fifty five in Liverpool,
and then Headingley's about twenty one thousand, and I think
some fans over the here have gone, oh that's not
ambitious enough, that's too negative. But I think there was
issues around getting out on road, which is the other
option obviously in Leeds as well as Headley, and I
think they were think well, things don't go right in
(21:21):
the first or second test, we can guarantee you know,
it's decent grad but also Headingley is a it's the
best Super League ground in the in England and it's
a rugby league ground. You know, it's on all the
history and you know hosted World Cup games a couple
of years ago austraight Fiji first game. And yeah, I
have no problem with Heavy. I think it's his creative demand.
And so the fact that it's already sold out is
(21:42):
great because what we're in April and the series starts
in October.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Now, the first Test is at Wembley, and I'm going
to go as far to say that Wembley is England's
and Great Britain's lucky charm comparatively, right. So I've just
done some very quick maths and also some quick run
(22:08):
through the archives in my head, right, And I think
since nineteen ninety the tests at Wembley between England, Great
Britain versus Australia, I think it's four to three to Australia,
which is comparatively brilliant compared to Americas. There's not many
(22:29):
other test wins for England outside of Wembley so let
me talk you through them. Nineteen ninety first Test Britain won.
Nineteen ninety two World Cup Final Australia one, one all,
nineteen ninety four First Test, Great Britain won. Nineteen ninety
(22:50):
seven Super League. Oh sorry, I'm god. Nineteen ninety five
World Cup first one, England one, second one. Australia won
the final Test Australia one. So we're on three to three, okay,
And then I think there's only been one game since
then between England and Australia at Wembley in a Try
(23:10):
Nations or a four Nations and Australia won. That Does
that sound about right to you?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
That sounds about right? I would say twenty thirteen World
Cup double seventy which I was at. That was the
famous England choke against New Zealand. Say, and after that
Australia put yeah, sixty or seventy on Fiji. So I
think I think that's I think you make a fair point.
I would also say that I think Wembley for Australians
(23:37):
it's a bit like Lords as well. I think Australians
love to play at Lord's in cricket, and they've got
a great record at Lords and I think Wembley is
just one of those iconic global stadiums that you know,
whether it's soccer or football or rugby league, whatever it is,
it's you know, it holds special a special place in
the world of in the world of sports. I think,
(23:57):
you know, having at Wembley, I think is is great.
I don't think they've actually marketed in the landon market
for these gamejectors. Ticket sales I think have been low
for that venue, but I'm sure I'll pick up and
I think if we get anything around sixty five seventy.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Well. I spoke to RFL Commercial yesterday sorry rl Commercial,
which is a branch of the RFL basically, and got
some tickets for the Everton Test for the tour, and
I've also made preparatory arrangements for the Wembley Test and
they sent me the seating plan and the top tier
isn't even an option yet. Yeah, so that gives you
an idea. But yeah, so there's some history there, so
(24:39):
we can unpack that over the coming weeks. I think
the big the big thing that people are going to
be interested in, and there's there's a reason I've pulled
this forward to now because just in case anybody starts
to think about putting a different podcast on because the border.
John obviously not me. But we're going to get some guests,
(25:00):
aren't we. So I'm going to get the guests in Australia,
and you're going to get the guests in England, and well,
for example, the media manager of the Kangaroos is coming
to my house this weekend for a couple of light refreshments,
so I might just interview him while he's here, preferably
before he's had too many light refreshments. And then obviously
(25:21):
we can I can get guests from my contact list,
and you can get guests from your contact list as
a journalist, and we're going to get you know, sometimes
this podcast will literally be me introducing it, and it
might be Johnny interviewing somebody, or it might be Me
interviewing somebody or something like that. So I think that's
probably the most exciting thing, isn't it. Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I think you know we've alluded to a little bit.
There's so much rich history of previous tours and previous
games and told stories. There's just so much to dig
into and obviously a lot of look forward to any
of you know who's going to be playing for Great Britain,
who's going to be playing for us?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
You know the painhas and Tino, you know, maybe going
to Samoa. How the Kangaroo's going to cope with that?
You know? Dom Young not playing too well for the Roosters?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Is he?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Is he a lock?
Speaker 1 (26:13):
For one?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Question for you Lee. There's been a bit of Yeah,
it's been I think Bobby Goulding mentioned it and there's
been a bit of talk. Do you I think from
his straying point of view, a lot of people don't
understand it anyway? But do you care that it's England
and not Great Britain playing the Ashes because it's historically
always been Great Britain? Or you know you're you're an
Englishman first, I suppose before a.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Britt Bobby and I are of a similar vintage Bobby
and probably a little couple of years older than me.
So that tells you everything you need to know about
what I said earlier. It sort of validates that point
about the Great Brook or England thing. I think I
actually don't mind either way. If we're going to unpack this,
(26:57):
you know, the Ashes Tournament trophy actually that was donated
by Tatasols in Sydney. Apparently Sydney Tat's sounds like a
tattoo parlor. But yeah, yeah, gamble responsibly. The trophy actually
(27:19):
says England, not Great Britain. Right, you will know this
better than me. A lot of this comes down to
funding from Sport England.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I also think we have completely botched the Great Britain
brand since two thousand and six. And I'll tell you why.
There was the infamous twenty nineteen tour.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I was there, I was there. I wasn't playing, but
I was in the.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Wayne Bennett was the England coach and automatically got given
the Great Britain job did well straight away. That in
itself is a problem because they're not the same job.
Great Britain is England, Northern Ireland, Sorry England, Scotland, Wales.
And when Brian Carney played for Great Britain he asked
(28:12):
and forced I believe or had some influence on the
team called Great Britain an Ireland. Okay, so there's that
number one. Number two. Wayne Bennett literally talked about using
the Great Britain Tour to prep for the next World Cup,
(28:37):
where he was coaching England. Now, I think we did
more damage to the Great Britain brand just in that tour.
It's almost like it was the last right for Great
Britain in a way, even though it wasn't Great Britain's fault.
In the said, you know the brand when Great Britain
was Great Britain. So if you look at the history
of Great Britain, a lot of the players that scored
(29:00):
the big tries. And I've been getting abused for this
on my Rugby League coach Socials channel, but I'm right.
I've been scored by union converts from Wales, Yeah, England, Yeah,
you know the match winning moments. Tell me if I'm wrong.
But was Clive Sullivan who scored the basic winning try
(29:22):
in Britain's last World Cup.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
In nineteen seventy nineteen seventeen.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Was he not a rugby union convert? He was?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
He was Welsh, He was Welsh and he was from union.
So I'm pretty sure how you mentioned you mentioned Jonathan
Davies four is Welsh and was a rugby Uni convert
as well. Yeah, I think I remember that that that
(29:50):
twenty nineteen tour, as I said, because I was at
the Tongue game in Hamilton and at the New Zealand
game at Ian Park, which was famously famous by tongue
of beaning Australia for the first time. But it was
a four four year old series loss. And there was
also the fascical thing where Wayne Bennett picked Blake, Austin, Jackson,
(30:10):
Hastings and Locke and Coop who were obviously heritage of
British players, and he didn't pick Reagan Grace, who was
a bona fide Welshman who was available, and he had
Blakes on the wing, who as we all know, was
and he's not a winger. So yeah, I think I
think you're right. I did you know, I can understand
it from Wayne's point of view he was building for
(30:31):
he probably didn't understand the fact that it was a
separate brand and separate identity.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And yeah, if you if we.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Had great Britain, now what Welsh, Irish, Scottish players would
be in the mix.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
I mean we had we had a big moment I
think between well anything before about two thousand ish really
because the two thousand World caught for examples, full of
Irish players that could have played for England. So you're
Barry McDermott, Terry or'conns except.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
So also Luke Rickardson and.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yes, yes, Scotland were also similarly stacked in certain places too,
and Wales have traditionally been been strong too. So the
Whales team of nineteen ninety five had Bateman, Jonathan Davis,
Paul Moriarty, die Young just to name a few. So
(31:25):
Kieran Canyon not in ninety five, two thousand. Lee Briers
was playing for Wales in two thousand. So I don't
know if that I mean, there's so much back there,
but I don't want to on this pod. But you
know what has happened to Scotland, Island and Wales in
that time is a debarcle. There's another big word, so hideous.
(31:47):
Debarcle and everything the the three big words of used today.
The fact that the Ashes hasn't been played for twenty
years almost is hideous. The Ashes mean everything to me.
And the fact that Ireland, Scotland and Wales aren't the
force anymore, that's a debarkle, that's but so so still
(32:11):
I'm still answering your question about England and Great Britain, right,
so I don't have a problem with it being called
England now because they're all English players. So it is
what it is. It's twenty twenty five. Yeah, I mean
the other big thing I want to make sure that
we're going to talk about in the because you've mentioned
(32:32):
player form, we've talked about nudes and announcements, and one
of the big things I'm going to be interested in
is how many NRL players get injured and how many
Origin players get injured. Because johnber I said before hold
Holder Holder thought, I'm going to bring it up later
and I linked it to ninety five and ninety seven
about a depleted Australia side. I think I think England
(32:55):
are going to be playing and depleted in Australia side
this year.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Works. It works.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
They're going to be depleted because of defections to sound
More and Tonga. Even if none no more happened, there've
been there's been defections and secondly, the injury levels that
are ridiculous. There's another big word. So I think I
think Australia is going to be one of the weakest
(33:22):
Australia sides that England or Great Britain have faced in
an actual series discourse.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, I think that's a fair point. But I think
the injuries thing goes both ways. And I think even
with the defections, if you look at the you know,
Australian team of last year that one of the Pacific Championships,
or you look at you know, the two Origin teams
and there's a number of players and there's Origin teams
who aren't eligible now obviously Jerome Leui, Brian to a
(33:50):
few others. But even with injuries, you say fallback. If
Dylan Edwards is unavailable, you know there's Tommy Turbo maybe
in the sense if he's injured, there's Latroll Mitchell, there's
Ryan Papenhaus and there's James Tedesco, there's Ryce Walsh. If
Jack Wellsby is injured, who who plays for England? There
(34:11):
isn't another standout.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Replaced Davidson.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Hope.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I don't know. I don't know, And that's what that's
what you're here, you know.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I think I think that that's a real in certain positions.
The depth for England is a real worries. You know,
you're looking at it throwing in levels or moving moving
Herbie Farnworth, who's you know, not played fullbacks thing for
a long long time, who's a setup, so yeah, I think, yeah,
it is, it will be, you know. And I think
(34:40):
we's fair, maybe a tad harsh, but fair.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
But yes, I don't think well in an ASHES because
I think that Super League Ashy side was a good side.
Yeah all right, in an ASHES. I don't think England
nor Great Britain would have played a weaker one for
a long time.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, I think that's a fair I think that's a
fair one. I think the and I think the hullaballoo
shall we say that. Melmourn Inger and Wayne Bannon have
talked about with origin players defecting or whatever, which they're not.
They're not defecting because you know, Brian Toger was born
and raised in Western Sydney and he has sim own heritage,
so he's as much of the New South Welshman and
(35:25):
Australian as he is as he is a small But
I think the part of that is because of the
age of those two guys, and you know, when they
were playing in the eighties or coaching in the eighties,
you know the Invincibles, there wasn't a Samoa or Tonga
and there wasn't that Pacific diaspora that's in Australia, New Zealand.
That exists now because things of migration change, trends have changed,
(35:46):
and we're a lot more multicultural.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
You can tell you to journalist with words like diaspra
the you've got to do it. Throw it in again. Well,
as a published author, I can say big words now too,
the the On that note as well, you mentioned injuries.
The Rugby League Coach Statistical Hub, you know, the stats
(36:12):
lab which is me worked out that there is roughly
five injuries, four or five injuries a week in Super
League on average. There's roughly between fourteen and seventeen in
the NRL.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Well, I mean I would have said that would be
higher and super like higher than that number, but that's yeah.
I mean, obviously there's more games in our own, isn't there.
So I'm guessing that that doesn't include concussions or hi.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
It includes all of them. Right. Of course, the statistics
in England aren't quite as comprehensive as the Australian ones
that break down the injuries and whatnot. So but you
know the sideline through injuries, I think injury.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, I think I think injuries. And my point you
even look back at the twenty twenty two World Cup
going to I think it was Alex Warmsey didn't play,
Lewis Dodd was injured, Johnny Lomax was injured, Mark Percival
was injured and James Roby was retiring. But you didn't
want to play in that tournament. So you know that
(37:18):
already weekend England. So yeah, it goes both ways, you know. Yeah,
the difference that are fit Littroll, Mitchell Ton Dravovitch makes
to the Kangaroos, I think is massive. So you know, yeah, big, big,
big point long season and you know, we'll see what
happens at the at the end of the year. But
(37:39):
I'm saying that and I think, you know, there's been
accusations of people not wanting to buy in or not
on the tour in the past, but I think an
ASHES series and I think you look at the last
one couple of Kangaroos like coming to the UK, So
I don't think you'll see players say I'll sit this
one out or whatever, because you know when they might
not play in other ASHES for a while.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Or another twenty odd years.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
And the other fact that I tried to get mentioned
this to a friend the other day like and you
would know this league, you know, having lived for Australia
a long time and the parochial nature of the Australian media.
Can you imagine getting off the plane in Brisbane or
Sydney and you've just lost the Ashes the first time
in fifty odd years, Like, can you.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Imagine they won't care until they care? Here?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Bit of that, there's a bit of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
there's a bit of that definitely.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
You know they they will be comfortable right now that
Australia will go on there and over there and win
three mil or two one and then they'll just go
England still ship right the minute they're not. It will
be massive, it'll be massive.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Oh yeah, well, I think if you if you think
that if England won the first game, the reaction then
because you know that that sadly cranks the pressure and
the heat, or England is the second game and you've
got a desire in the third.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yeah. So to wrap up, a big part of me
can imagine Australia winning three nil. But I'm going to
predict too to one because I just think England have
got something in England that Australia haven't quite worked out.
(39:25):
Yet and they don't work it out for World Club
challenges either, right, So, and that's not an apple and
apple I understand, particularly because half the team is foreigners.
But anyway, but the English, I have a lot of
faith in the English conditions, the English fans, the fact
that it means so much towards English people, because it
(39:49):
does like, I am so excited. I've not been excited
about rugby league like this for a long time. So
I think England are going to win at least one game.
But I'm going to tip Austria earlier. What say you?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Not to be completely boring, but I would agree with
that assessment. I think I think if England have their
best players available so Farnworth, Wells By, Williams, Smith, Luke Thompson,
et cetera, I think they've got a good chance. I
think there's probably going to be three English refs and
I'm not alluding to any bias or anything, but I
(40:24):
think that helps in how that the Rocks obviously managed
differently in the NRL to Super Lugue.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
As much referee and I've seen from English refs. Yeah,
I think you were pretty so that so that you
or I don't get sued there was some very interesting refereeing.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, I think, I think I think you were pretty
critical the Samowa series last year in the Tongue. I
remember what Christian Wolf wasn't happy about how slow the
Rocks were, and I particularly that first test. I agree
with him. But putting all that aside, yeah, I think
I think this England team you look at and you
look the English record since the last World Cup. Obviously
they've played France and flog France, that's not surprise, but
(41:05):
they've beaten Tonga three nil, they've beaten Samoa two nil.
They've done everything that they needed to do. And I
think a lot of those players have won World Club
Challenges for Wigan and Snelons, so the fear factor perhaps
of Australia isn't there. And then you've also got those
players who've done well in the NRL. So George Williams
(41:26):
did well at Canberra, Herbie Farnworth's killing at the Dolphins
and was great at the Broncos. Dom Young not in
great forum in the moment, but you know he's a
freaking athlete and you know he's topped the try scoring
charts in the NRL. So there's a good mix of
experience there and perhaps that psychological element, you know, the
(41:46):
fifty year kind of who doo, Maybe that's dissipated a
little bit. So I do think England can win our game,
and I think if they win one game then they're
a very good chance of winning a second. But if
I was the bookies, I would be having the Kangaroos
as as favorites. I'll look at it from another way too.
The last World Cup England lost to Samoa in the
(42:08):
semi I only won the first one, but the one
that mattered they lost in the semi I did a
week later Australia beat them by nearly thirty Yeah, so
couldn't even get to the final that Yeah, I mean
that that doesn't look good. You've got to remember and
that they played some of the first game fifty.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
So if those who were in the game know what
the support were up to when they arrived in England. Yeah,
well I think, yeah, you're gonna look I played in
the Grand Final two weeks before or.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah, you're going to look at the preparation of that
Samoan team in that game. And I think you're also
going to look at the selections that England had you know,
they had Mickey Mack, had Callum Watkins in at the center.
Who's a back rower? Now you had four forwards on
the bench, so you know there was maybe some questionable
coaching selection. But I think the spread of depth particling
(43:02):
the halves. You know, you've got Michael Lewis, got Harry Smith,
You've got George Williams. There's you know, the halves have
always been an issue for England. Great bon have they lee,
at least in the last fifteen to twenty years. You
look at the twenty seventeen World Cup there was Luke,
Luke Gale and Kevin Brown and that was a six
miel game that went right to the last minute. But
(43:23):
just they couldn't They couldn't execute, they couldn't they couldn't create.
But the forward pack, the forward England's always had, the forwards,
always had the forwards. So I think that's where the
edge could be, particularly if the Kangaroo pack is missing
some of that Pacific power. But yeah, I think it'll
be a fantastic series. Can't wait.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Do you think people can get on top of this issue,
get in touch with us to give us some ideas
for what to do on the podcast in the next
weeks and months as well. I'd love people to be
a bit interactive with us. Do you think people can
(44:06):
get hold of you Johnny in England? How would they
do it?
Speaker 2 (44:09):
They can get hold of me on on Twitter or
x and Johnny D Davidson. I'm pretty sure my email
addresses on the handle as well. Just hold off on
the abuse. But yeah, I love a bit of feedback.
I think we've got We've got an idea of some
guests and some some England and Great Britain legends, some
(44:30):
some Kangaroo's legends, maybe some assistant coaches or ex coaches.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
There's there's a lot. So this has been the overview episode.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
This is the introduction. This is the introduction, the.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Entree, the I can be contacted admin at rugbyley Coach
dot com, dot are you at Rugby League Coach and
all the social things apart from X where a Matt's
RL coach on the netbook type of rugbyley coach and
you'll find me. I've been xing a bit more lately
on Twitter and not staying ext girlfriends. And also I
(45:07):
want everybody to know that I am organizing a tour
to the first two tests and show you my home country.
So please get in touch and I'll send you all
the details when they are available. Johnny, just doing this
pod has made me even more excited.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Just on your on your tour. I'm sure there's going
to be a warning that strong livers must be required
to survive your tour.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
I knew you're involved in this part. I wouldn't do something, Johnny,
and you know it'd be great if we can, if
we can catch up and you can meet the people
that are listening to this podcast, or come on tour
as well.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
And maybe we can do a lot podcast.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Maybe we're the next Anton Deck or Hey, Mish and
Andy as the Osie cut like over.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I think we're a bit told to bet we and
not joining.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Yeah, take care a mate, Thank you, Thanks a lot.
Hello everybody, and welcome to the first Ashes Rugby League podcast,
and then said the Rugby League Coach Podcast. Then, John,
my name is Lee. I am an Englishman and I
live in Australia.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm John Davidson. I'm an Australian who lives in England.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm Lee Addison and I'm the host of the Rugby
League Coach podcast Rugby League Coach dot com. But say
you brought out a book called Rugby League Coach and
it's got a subtitle, but I can't bother reading it
out if you want that. Johnny is a freelance journalist
and also the host of the Buy the Balls podcast. John,
you might as well well have got you. Just give
us some news from England. What's happening in the rugby
(00:42):
league world in England right now? Apart from the Ashes?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, yeah, I was gonna say ticket Siles ticket, but
I mean the Air's there's numerous things are rumbling and
obviously talk of nr O Europe and takeovers. Tom Moone
has left the Bulldog and signed for Castleford for the
rest of these issue and we'll be joining ok R
next year. Who's a Hendyr replacement for Jared Murray Harghgroves
(01:08):
who will retiring at the end of this year after
the last trious career in UH, particularly for the Roosters
and obviously for New Zealand. And then yeah, the Soffur situation,
as you know as a Sulfur boy, continues to rumble
on in the background. So there's always there's always things,
that thing's happening.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
We so this we might as well talk about the
Ashes because this is what people have tuned into some
myself and John have got together to put together an
Ashes Rugby League podcast. We think it's a nice little
niche and there isn't any others that we're aware of
that are dedicated purely to the Ashes. Myself and John
are obviously swapped countries. I would like to say that
(01:48):
I lived in John's leafy suburb in Sheffield is opulent surroundings,
but I didn't. I came from the rough, mean streaks
of Salford and I've ended up in Brisbane. But John
is a Novocastrian from Newcastle and a Manly Seagles fan.
I guess what we'll talk about first, John is what
the pod, what we will intend to cover in the
(02:10):
coming weeks, and I guess one thing I've been really
conscious of is how many people probably don't know the ashes.
There's two generations of people who probably wouldn't have a
clue how big they are, and so on that end,
I want to start with a very big question straight up,
What does the ashes mean to John Davidson.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I guess that's a great question. I mean, I
think if you look at any well, if you look
at Australia and England, or Australia in the UK as
training Great Britain, it's rathery, isn't it. It's it's you know,
the mother country, the relationship. And I think the ashes
just is whether it's cricket, whether it's rugby league. Obviously
(02:52):
you know rugby union ashes, but there's a you know,
a strong rivalry there. It just means RIVALI it means history,
it means it means culture, and I think in rugby
league it's always been the biggest rivalry for what over
one hundred years, but it's slipped off that pecking because
we haven't had it for twenty two years. So yeah,
(03:13):
I was thinking the same thing lead the other day.
There's at least a generation of not if not more
of twenty two years of people who've never seen the ashes.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So you even those of the previous generation to that,
so let's call three generations, they'll have never seen a
proper tool, yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
You know the famous Kangaroo Tours and the Great Britain
Tours down and yeah they've never seen them. And you
know you can there's a number of reasons why that
slipped off the pecking Obviously state of origin. You know,
the Kiwis have risen, We've got the Pacific Nations now,
but yeah, we kind of lost that tradition history, so
we are bringing you back and I think it's very
(03:51):
very exciting. You look at the demand in the UK
for tickets, that's you know, a massive indicator that people
want this series and they want to see England against
Australia the twenty seveneen World Cup Final rematch only only
eight years later.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I mean, I find that hideous that England or Great
Britain have not played Australia for that longway. Yeah, I mean,
we'll try not get too political, but yeah, I'm just
gonna I'm not going to start with a small word hideous.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Well, I know there was there was going to be
a Kangaroo Tour in twenty twenty and COVID killed that
and then I think it was the way it was
all lined up was England was going to play Australia
in the twenty twenty two World Cup final, wasn't it?
But then its them one in Golden Point and knocked
England out, So it was smaller in Australia in the final.
So yeah, but you are right. I mean, for you know,
(04:44):
the regular league. In regular league, the top three countries
of Australia, England, New Zealand and in fact Australian England
haven't played together is for so long. He's not great,
So we're changing that. So let's yeah, we'll be positive.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So I think that in this podcast, which we intend
to bring out roughly fortnightly, but we're trying not to
stick to too big a schedule, Owy John, because we've
got other things going on. But I think one of
the things we have to do is teach some people
some history of the Ashes and some historical things. Now,
in terms of what the Ashes means to me, I'm
(05:19):
going to start with another big word everything because it
was literally as a as an English kid growing up
in Rugby League, it was almost Great Britain first and
then you supported your team second. And I think the
Super League year brought in a bigger connection with clubs
(05:40):
and then I think the modern ear are tend to
link to players a little bit too so. But my
generation we're obsessed with Great Britain rugby league, those who
were interested in rugby league. And I used to be
in awe of the of the these Green and Gold
that came over to our country every four years as
I was young. In the television in nineteen eighty eight,
(06:03):
for example, when England or Great Britain were in Australia
was a little bit delayed and things like that. Sometimes
the coverage would get disjointed or interrupted. I'll never forget
my dad's face when he woke up late one morning
for some reason. I was on the sofa that day.
We had some visitors or something, and I woke up early,
(06:24):
which is very rare for me, and I turned the
TV on and Britain were beating Australia, and I'll never
forget my dad's face when he noticed the score. And
I was a young kid then I was near I
was nine years old, and I'm thinking to myself it
must mean something, this ashes think because my dad's face
just said it all. He was almost in disbelief that
(06:47):
Britain were beating Australia because it had been ten years.
Then right now it's twenty years. But sorry, nineteen so
I'll get accused of being negative. So straight away I
was sort of told that meant something to me. Nineteen
ninety happened. I genuinely believe the Second Test of nineteen ninety,
(07:08):
of nineteen ninety at Old Trafford is literally one of
the greatest games of rugby league that has ever ever
taken place. For those of a good you told me
if you can.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I was just going to say, yeah, I think. I
think those are the earliest memories of me. And I
get them because I've seen so many clips. I get them,
and my memory is terrible, but I get those confused.
The ninety ninety four, the Ricky Stewart inside the Momentinger
match winner at the death, and then you know, there's.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
The nineteen ninety Yeah, the Second Test, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, and I think I think that's my earliest memory.
And then there's the Cliffy Lions one. But I think
if you look at that ninety nineteen ninety four. They
were basically games. The series went down right to the wide.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
In ninety two in Australia was a really good series.
So the two series in my life lifetime that have
been literally nip and talk were the nineteen ninety series
between Great Britain and Australia in England and the nineteen
ninety two series Australia versus Great Britain. What happened was
(08:14):
Australia won the first Test at the Sydney Football Stadium.
Martin Offia ran down the wing and andrew Ettinghouse and
clipped him and managed to just knock his foot into
touch by a few millimeters. It actually happened twice. The
second Test was in Melbourne and it wasn't at the
current stadium. It was at the old Melbourne Stadium because
(08:36):
the current stadium obviously didn't exist, and neither did a
couple of the other stadiums in the area. Is that
Olympic Park? Have I got that right?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It was Olympic That was the Scoe. That was the
Scoe Test.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Wasn't it Scoe? And Paul Eastwood was the kicker and
was going through the biggest rigmarole at every single kick
and we actually flogged the OSSes that night. It was
something like thirty three ten really gave it to them
and that went to the third Test too, So I'd
say those two tests series were competitive. Nineteen ninety four.
(09:07):
I was full of anticipation for that. Britain won the
first Test. Jonathan Davis scored after not long after Sean
Edwards got sent off for head hiring Bradley Clyde. Yeah,
when you're doing it just like a good Australian ward
to an Englishman and Britain were down to twelve, but
(09:28):
Jonathan Davis sneaked in before halftime in the corner, scored
a great try actually, and we hung on to win
that Test eight six sometimeted to say or eight four.
A very little thing known about that series. We felt
at the time it was close, buff you actually look
at it. Great Brookin scored two tries in that series
(09:51):
and that was one of them, the Jonathan Davis try,
So it probably wasn't as close as we think. British
coach he was basically a coach. He'd never coached anyone
from memory at the time, and we probably lacked that
edge that malt Riley brought and he's doing things tough
at the minute, so obviously we send out our best
(10:11):
wishes there. And yeah, the Aussies put Britain to the
sword in the second Test, in particular Old Trafford. And
then now we're going into the memory bank a little bit.
Do you remember the nineteen ninety seven Super League Tests
that seemed to have been scrubbed from history, have been
(10:35):
rub from the John Davidson memory bank.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Well, I haven't. I haven't even been scrub for them, everybody,
because I think obviously I grew up in Newcastle and
inm A mainly fan, so we were dead banging the
r L. See we were, you know, we were a
r L diehards and Newcastle was probably the the capital
of the Arl music movement. So we anti HANDA Mariners
(11:01):
were everything Super League, the real, the real competition was
the r L and all those other bastards. So now
I know that I vaguely I remember being conscious of
the try nations, didn't they?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
But yeah, that was yeah for the for the origin
they had an origin try nation, yes, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Then we had the we had the real origin of
ninety five and ninety six, and obviously the ninety five
battlers of Queensland with the biggest upset in from the
rugby league history.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
So you can imagine why British rugby league fans were
ready to end it all after ninety five and ninety
seven because the game was split in two in Australia.
In Australia. Nineteen ninety five, England beat Australia in the
opener of the World Cup. I remember because Diana Ross
(11:51):
sung before the game. You did it and it was
the first time I ever went down to London on
my own without the parents, so that was a big
pivotal moment in my life. And I was about twenty
eight No, no, I'm joking. And then the final was
England versus Australia again and England basically choked a little
(12:13):
bit again quite frankly on Australia one with half a side.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So that was, yeah, I remember that. That was the
That was the Super League War, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
That was It was the the RL side, John Apola,
yea Brett Dallas that the left edge was Steve Men's's
right edge was Gary Lars and things like that, you know,
I think, Mark.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, there was a strong, mainly continuent with being the
coach and you had I think it was Andrew John's
the hooker and two half back that you were. You know,
I was a team with aut Ricky Stewart Langa ran
off all the Broncos Lori day. But yeah, the half
strength was he still managed to get over the line.
And then and I'm going to go, I'm going to
(12:56):
link this a bit what we've just said about the
half systems to the modern day. So hold that Thorne
ninety seven we had the Super League Test, which was
the other half. So your Lurie Daily, for example, was
man of the match at Wembley when they beat Britain
in the first Test. The second Test at Old Trafford,
Britain won and Andy Farrell ran the show that day.
(13:16):
I think he was playing six from memory. But of
course Australia beat us in the third Test. So quite frankly,
beating Australia in any form of series was getting further
and further from people's minds. We then had the era
of the try nations and the four Nations. So ninety
nine Britain got whacked in Australia. There's been that many
(13:38):
four Nations and try nations. I can't remember them off
the top of my head and I certainly haven't prepared
them for today because this was an overview, you know,
this is something we can dig into over the coming weeks.
And we had all the try Nations and the four Nations,
we had the World Cup. I've actually missed out the
World Cup of two thousand in that journey as well.
(14:00):
So England failed to beat Australia in the first game
and John Keir was the coach, but then we had
the trying agents and everything. But we also had a
couple of tests series which ended up being the last
in two thousand and one and two thousand and three.
Two thousand and one, ber And won the first test
under David Waite and then lost the next two. Two
(14:21):
thousand and three, Adrian Morley lasted twelve seconds in the
first game.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
If you remember, I remember that. I do remember that.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I think the excuse was Robbie Kerns stepped and he
stur was Robbie kers that hit moss arm clearly.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
There's I had a conversation with Mike Foreshore about that
at one time and basically Moza got ready in the
changing room about an hour and a half before everyone,
So he was he was in the zone and when
they were meant to rush up as a line, he
just completely bolted out the line like Mike round and
(14:57):
where's mos gone? You know?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
So I think it was a mile ahead of.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I've read his book and he was pretty keyed up.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah. So those were the last two Ashes series. Chris
Anderson on the first one in two thousand and one. Well,
first of all, they nearly didn't come because of the
terror attack September the eleventh, and it was really late
in the year. It was late November. Chris Anderson had
actually had a heart attack in the stand the Australian
coach and stayed at Morrislin's his house for a few
(15:26):
weeks after to recouperate, and Morris who was my boss
at the time, used to complain about how much of
his wine he was drinking in the house. So yeah,
So we had two thousand and one and two thousand
and three, and then we went through the era of
the of the Try Nations and Four Nations taking over.
So we had nineteen ninety nine try Nations, We had
(15:47):
a couple of Ashes series and then it went to
Four Nations. My memory needs some brushing up around there.
I don't know if you've got much on those on
some of those events, well know, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Mean I think the two thousand and three series that
was the one, and I've watched some clips of it.
I think during during COVID there was a reruns and
those are amazing games. I think in every game, Great
Britain was right in it until the final five minutes
and Australia it was a three nil series victory, but
aust basically stole it at the death. Yes, if you
(16:22):
look at the last the last AS series and if
you look at those teams on both sides are absolutely
stacked them. In Australia you've got Locker, Fittler, John's, you know,
just you know hinh Marsh, et cetera. Just absolutely stacked teams.
But then on the Great Britain side you've got equally
stacked teams as well. You know, you've got bcock. I
(16:42):
think there was Eddie Farrell, Tero O'Connor, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Leon Price, you know, yeah exactly, yeah, there was. There
was huge steps. So I think that was a really
tough one, you know, from the from the British point
of view, because they were real contests and it was
(17:04):
just that final five minutes and that seems to be
a theme. I think Bobby Gordon said an interview with
Sky Sports Radio in Australia the other week, and I
think I can remember Jonathan Thurston saying this maybe twenty
sixteen four Nations. You know that just England that last
ten minutes. You know they they compete, but it's that
(17:25):
last ten minutes they seem to drop off and that's
when Australia gets them. And I think you can if
that's the case, you tie that down in an intensity
of competition dot here over every round and it's at
the Super League, players play a lot more games than
they do in the NRL, which you can have an
impact the end of the year. But that that was
a fantastic series. And then we had I think it
was two thousand and eight, was great Britain, the Kiwis
(17:47):
and then as you said, we you know we went
back to regular World Cups two thousand and eight, thirteen
and seventeen.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, all six was the last time Britain beat Australia.
It was the game at Sydney Football. It was not long,
not long before I came to move to Australia, and
funnily enough the ribbing guy got from some of my
fellow so called friends because I was going to Australia,
(18:15):
were telling me you're going to the weak rugby league
country now because because Australia had been beaten. That was
the test where Willie Mason and Stuart Field and went
Tod to Toll.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yes, yeah, that was. That's become mythic now, hasn't it,
because it was obviously the last Great Britain went over Australia.
But that the Peacock Mason fire at the field of
me knocked out the Sean Long's face being rearranged by
Willie Mason's elbow, which probably get two years suspended. Somehow
he didn't get a red card in that game. And
then the try, wasn't it I think the winger who's
(18:50):
known as going because I think Brian Conney went off
with a with a hamstring issue. But the funny thing
because that was early on I think in that series,
and then I think Great Britain had to go to Townsville.
I'm not sure they're played, but that was the infamous
players gone on the piss. It was obviously shown Long
leone price and got a bit rowdy and then Sean
(19:11):
Long packed up and went home and then they're all
full part. So that to me from an Australian point
of view, that's just like crazy. You think they're on
the cast of something great as in winning the Four
Nations and winning that series, and they threw it all
away because they got excited a bit too excited after
one win.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
So look, I think we've got loads to one pack
just there in all these things, Like we can go
into certain details about series, we can mention them in
the podcast because there's another twenty years to go nearly
there of gain, but we have had that gap since
twenty seventeen. So this is I think why the games
are so popular. Sold the first two test venues sorry,
(19:53):
the second two have sold out basically so for those
who don't know. The first Test is at Wembley last
weekend in October, first two weeks in November. Second Test
at Everton. I've managed to get twenty two tickets for
the tour I'm running. If anybody wants to go on that,
I admit at rugbyley Coach dot com dot au please
send me an email. And the third Test at Leeds
(20:15):
completely sold out because it's only thirty eight thousand seats
or something. So Leads is an interesting one, John, because
that hasn't hosted a Test against Australia since guess when
the fifties, nineteen eighty two. We all know what happened
then the Principles.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, I've run up and watched a lot about the
Invincibles now, you know. I think that was the that
added a whole mythology to the to the history of
the artist, didn't it. But yeah, I think headingly that's
the I think it's twenty one thousand, and I understand
why they've picked that because it obviously it goes Wembley
Bramley Moore, which is the new Everson Stadium. And then
(21:00):
so you've got a ninety thousand seat stadium in London,
you've got a I think it's fifty five in Liverpool,
and then Headingley's about twenty one thousand, and I think
some fans over the here have gone, oh that's not
ambitious enough, that's too negative. But I think there was
issues around getting out on road, which is the other
option obviously in Leeds as well as Headley, and I
think they were think well, things don't go right in
(21:21):
the first or second test, we can guarantee you know,
it's decent grad but also Headingley is a it's the
best Super League ground in the in England and it's
a rugby league ground. You know, it's on all the
history and you know hosted World Cup games a couple
of years ago austraight Fiji first game. And yeah, I
have no problem with Heavy. I think it's his creative demand.
And so the fact that it's already sold out is
(21:42):
great because what we're in April and the series starts
in October.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Now, the first Test is at Wembley, and I'm going
to go as far to say that Wembley is England's
and Great Britain's lucky charm comparatively, right. So I've just
done some very quick maths and also some quick run
(22:08):
through the archives in my head, right, And I think
since nineteen ninety the tests at Wembley between England, Great
Britain versus Australia, I think it's four to three to Australia,
which is comparatively brilliant compared to Americas. There's not many
(22:29):
other test wins for England outside of Wembley so let
me talk you through them. Nineteen ninety first Test Britain won.
Nineteen ninety two World Cup Final Australia one, one all,
nineteen ninety four First Test, Great Britain won. Nineteen ninety
(22:50):
seven Super League. Oh sorry, I'm god. Nineteen ninety five
World Cup first one, England one, second one. Australia won
the final Test Australia one. So we're on three to three, okay,
And then I think there's only been one game since
then between England and Australia at Wembley in a Try
(23:10):
Nations or a four Nations and Australia won. That Does
that sound about right to you?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
That sounds about right? I would say twenty thirteen World
Cup double seventy which I was at. That was the
famous England choke against New Zealand. Say, and after that
Australia put yeah, sixty or seventy on Fiji. So I
think I think that's I think you make a fair point.
I would also say that I think Wembley for Australians
(23:37):
it's a bit like Lords as well. I think Australians
love to play at Lord's in cricket, and they've got
a great record at Lords and I think Wembley is
just one of those iconic global stadiums that you know,
whether it's soccer or football or rugby league, whatever it is,
it's you know, it holds special a special place in
the world of in the world of sports. I think,
(23:57):
you know, having at Wembley, I think is is great.
I don't think they've actually marketed in the landon market
for these gamejectors. Ticket sales I think have been low
for that venue, but I'm sure I'll pick up and
I think if we get anything around sixty five seventy.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Well. I spoke to RFL Commercial yesterday sorry rl Commercial,
which is a branch of the RFL basically, and got
some tickets for the Everton Test for the tour, and
I've also made preparatory arrangements for the Wembley Test and
they sent me the seating plan and the top tier
isn't even an option yet. Yeah, so that gives you
an idea. But yeah, so there's some history there, so
(24:39):
we can unpack that over the coming weeks. I think
the big the big thing that people are going to
be interested in, and there's there's a reason I've pulled
this forward to now because just in case anybody starts
to think about putting a different podcast on because the border.
John obviously not me. But we're going to get some guests,
(25:00):
aren't we. So I'm going to get the guests in Australia,
and you're going to get the guests in England, and well,
for example, the media manager of the Kangaroos is coming
to my house this weekend for a couple of light refreshments,
so I might just interview him while he's here, preferably
before he's had too many light refreshments. And then obviously
(25:21):
we can I can get guests from my contact list,
and you can get guests from your contact list as
a journalist, and we're going to get you know, sometimes
this podcast will literally be me introducing it, and it
might be Johnny interviewing somebody, or it might be Me
interviewing somebody or something like that. So I think that's
probably the most exciting thing, isn't it. Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I think you know we've alluded to a little bit.
There's so much rich history of previous tours and previous
games and told stories. There's just so much to dig
into and obviously a lot of look forward to any
of you know who's going to be playing for Great Britain,
who's going to be playing for us?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
You know the painhas and Tino, you know, maybe going
to Samoa. How the Kangaroo's going to cope with that?
You know? Dom Young not playing too well for the Roosters?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Is he?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Is he a lock?
Speaker 1 (26:13):
For one?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Question for you Lee. There's been a bit of Yeah,
it's been I think Bobby Goulding mentioned it and there's
been a bit of talk. Do you I think from
his straying point of view, a lot of people don't
understand it anyway? But do you care that it's England
and not Great Britain playing the Ashes because it's historically
always been Great Britain? Or you know you're you're an
Englishman first, I suppose before a.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Britt Bobby and I are of a similar vintage Bobby
and probably a little couple of years older than me.
So that tells you everything you need to know about
what I said earlier. It sort of validates that point
about the Great Brook or England thing. I think I
actually don't mind either way. If we're going to unpack this,
(26:57):
you know, the Ashes Tournament trophy actually that was donated
by Tatasols in Sydney. Apparently Sydney Tat's sounds like a
tattoo parlor. But yeah, yeah, gamble responsibly. The trophy actually
(27:19):
says England, not Great Britain. Right, you will know this
better than me. A lot of this comes down to
funding from Sport England.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I also think we have completely botched the Great Britain
brand since two thousand and six. And I'll tell you why.
There was the infamous twenty nineteen tour.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I was there, I was there. I wasn't playing, but
I was in the.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Wayne Bennett was the England coach and automatically got given
the Great Britain job did well straight away. That in
itself is a problem because they're not the same job.
Great Britain is England, Northern Ireland, Sorry England, Scotland, Wales.
And when Brian Carney played for Great Britain he asked
(28:12):
and forced I believe or had some influence on the
team called Great Britain an Ireland. Okay, so there's that
number one. Number two. Wayne Bennett literally talked about using
the Great Britain Tour to prep for the next World Cup,
(28:37):
where he was coaching England. Now, I think we did
more damage to the Great Britain brand just in that tour.
It's almost like it was the last right for Great
Britain in a way, even though it wasn't Great Britain's fault.
In the said, you know the brand when Great Britain
was Great Britain. So if you look at the history
of Great Britain, a lot of the players that scored
(29:00):
the big tries. And I've been getting abused for this
on my Rugby League coach Socials channel, but I'm right.
I've been scored by union converts from Wales, Yeah, England, Yeah,
you know the match winning moments. Tell me if I'm wrong.
But was Clive Sullivan who scored the basic winning try
(29:22):
in Britain's last World Cup.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
In nineteen seventy nineteen seventeen.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Was he not a rugby union convert? He was?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
He was Welsh, He was Welsh and he was from union.
So I'm pretty sure how you mentioned you mentioned Jonathan
Davies four is Welsh and was a rugby Uni convert
as well. Yeah, I think I remember that that that
(29:50):
twenty nineteen tour, as I said, because I was at
the Tongue game in Hamilton and at the New Zealand
game at Ian Park, which was famously famous by tongue
of beaning Australia for the first time. But it was
a four four year old series loss. And there was
also the fascical thing where Wayne Bennett picked Blake, Austin, Jackson,
(30:10):
Hastings and Locke and Coop who were obviously heritage of
British players, and he didn't pick Reagan Grace, who was
a bona fide Welshman who was available, and he had
Blakes on the wing, who as we all know, was
and he's not a winger. So yeah, I think I
think you're right. I did you know, I can understand
it from Wayne's point of view he was building for
(30:31):
he probably didn't understand the fact that it was a
separate brand and separate identity.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And yeah, if you if we.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Had great Britain, now what Welsh, Irish, Scottish players would
be in the mix.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
I mean we had we had a big moment I
think between well anything before about two thousand ish really
because the two thousand World caught for examples, full of
Irish players that could have played for England. So you're
Barry McDermott, Terry or'conns except.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
So also Luke Rickardson and.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yes, yes, Scotland were also similarly stacked in certain places too,
and Wales have traditionally been been strong too. So the
Whales team of nineteen ninety five had Bateman, Jonathan Davis,
Paul Moriarty, die Young just to name a few. So
(31:25):
Kieran Canyon not in ninety five, two thousand. Lee Briers
was playing for Wales in two thousand. So I don't
know if that I mean, there's so much back there,
but I don't want to on this pod. But you
know what has happened to Scotland, Island and Wales in
that time is a debarcle. There's another big word, so hideous.
(31:47):
Debarcle and everything the the three big words of used today.
The fact that the Ashes hasn't been played for twenty
years almost is hideous. The Ashes mean everything to me.
And the fact that Ireland, Scotland and Wales aren't the
force anymore, that's a debarkle, that's but so so still
(32:11):
I'm still answering your question about England and Great Britain, right,
so I don't have a problem with it being called
England now because they're all English players. So it is
what it is. It's twenty twenty five. Yeah, I mean
the other big thing I want to make sure that
we're going to talk about in the because you've mentioned
(32:32):
player form, we've talked about nudes and announcements, and one
of the big things I'm going to be interested in
is how many NRL players get injured and how many
Origin players get injured. Because johnber I said before hold
Holder Holder thought, I'm going to bring it up later
and I linked it to ninety five and ninety seven
about a depleted Australia side. I think I think England
(32:55):
are going to be playing and depleted in Australia side
this year.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Works. It works.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
They're going to be depleted because of defections to sound
More and Tonga. Even if none no more happened, there've
been there's been defections and secondly, the injury levels that
are ridiculous. There's another big word. So I think I
think Australia is going to be one of the weakest
(33:22):
Australia sides that England or Great Britain have faced in
an actual series discourse.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, I think that's a fair point. But I think
the injuries thing goes both ways. And I think even
with the defections, if you look at the you know,
Australian team of last year that one of the Pacific Championships,
or you look at you know, the two Origin teams
and there's a number of players and there's Origin teams
who aren't eligible now obviously Jerome Leui, Brian to a
(33:50):
few others. But even with injuries, you say fallback. If
Dylan Edwards is unavailable, you know there's Tommy Turbo maybe
in the sense if he's injured, there's Latroll Mitchell, there's
Ryan Papenhaus and there's James Tedesco, there's Ryce Walsh. If
Jack Wellsby is injured, who who plays for England? There
(34:11):
isn't another standout.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Replaced Davidson.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Hope.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I don't know. I don't know, And that's what that's
what you're here, you know.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I think I think that that's a real in certain positions.
The depth for England is a real worries. You know,
you're looking at it throwing in levels or moving moving
Herbie Farnworth, who's you know, not played fullbacks thing for
a long long time, who's a setup, so yeah, I think, yeah,
it is, it will be, you know. And I think
(34:40):
we's fair, maybe a tad harsh, but fair.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
But yes, I don't think well in an ASHES because
I think that Super League Ashy side was a good side.
Yeah all right, in an ASHES. I don't think England
nor Great Britain would have played a weaker one for
a long time.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, I think that's a fair I think that's a
fair one. I think the and I think the hullaballoo
shall we say that. Melmourn Inger and Wayne Bannon have
talked about with origin players defecting or whatever, which they're not.
They're not defecting because you know, Brian Toger was born
and raised in Western Sydney and he has sim own heritage,
so he's as much of the New South Welshman and
(35:25):
Australian as he is as he is a small But
I think the part of that is because of the
age of those two guys, and you know, when they
were playing in the eighties or coaching in the eighties,
you know the Invincibles, there wasn't a Samoa or Tonga
and there wasn't that Pacific diaspora that's in Australia, New Zealand.
That exists now because things of migration change, trends have changed,
(35:46):
and we're a lot more multicultural.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
You can tell you to journalist with words like diaspra
the you've got to do it. Throw it in again. Well,
as a published author, I can say big words now too,
the the On that note as well, you mentioned injuries.
The Rugby League Coach Statistical Hub, you know, the stats
(36:12):
lab which is me worked out that there is roughly
five injuries, four or five injuries a week in Super
League on average. There's roughly between fourteen and seventeen in
the NRL.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Well, I mean I would have said that would be
higher and super like higher than that number, but that's yeah.
I mean, obviously there's more games in our own, isn't there.
So I'm guessing that that doesn't include concussions or hi.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
It includes all of them. Right. Of course, the statistics
in England aren't quite as comprehensive as the Australian ones
that break down the injuries and whatnot. So but you
know the sideline through injuries, I think injury.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, I think I think injuries. And my point you
even look back at the twenty twenty two World Cup
going to I think it was Alex Warmsey didn't play,
Lewis Dodd was injured, Johnny Lomax was injured, Mark Percival
was injured and James Roby was retiring. But you didn't
want to play in that tournament. So you know that
(37:18):
already weekend England. So yeah, it goes both ways, you know. Yeah,
the difference that are fit Littroll, Mitchell Ton Dravovitch makes
to the Kangaroos, I think is massive. So you know, yeah, big, big,
big point long season and you know, we'll see what
happens at the at the end of the year. But
(37:39):
I'm saying that and I think, you know, there's been
accusations of people not wanting to buy in or not
on the tour in the past, but I think an
ASHES series and I think you look at the last
one couple of Kangaroos like coming to the UK, So
I don't think you'll see players say I'll sit this
one out or whatever, because you know when they might
not play in other ASHES for a while.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Or another twenty odd years.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
And the other fact that I tried to get mentioned
this to a friend the other day like and you
would know this league, you know, having lived for Australia
a long time and the parochial nature of the Australian media.
Can you imagine getting off the plane in Brisbane or
Sydney and you've just lost the Ashes the first time
in fifty odd years, Like, can you.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Imagine they won't care until they care? Here?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Bit of that, there's a bit of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
there's a bit of that definitely.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
You know they they will be comfortable right now that
Australia will go on there and over there and win
three mil or two one and then they'll just go
England still ship right the minute they're not. It will
be massive, it'll be massive.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Oh yeah, well, I think if you if you think
that if England won the first game, the reaction then
because you know that that sadly cranks the pressure and
the heat, or England is the second game and you've
got a desire in the third.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yeah. So to wrap up, a big part of me
can imagine Australia winning three nil. But I'm going to
predict too to one because I just think England have
got something in England that Australia haven't quite worked out.
(39:25):
Yet and they don't work it out for World Club
challenges either, right, So, and that's not an apple and
apple I understand, particularly because half the team is foreigners.
But anyway, but the English, I have a lot of
faith in the English conditions, the English fans, the fact
that it means so much towards English people, because it
(39:49):
does like, I am so excited. I've not been excited
about rugby league like this for a long time. So
I think England are going to win at least one game.
But I'm going to tip Austria earlier. What say you?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Not to be completely boring, but I would agree with
that assessment. I think I think if England have their
best players available so Farnworth, Wells By, Williams, Smith, Luke Thompson,
et cetera, I think they've got a good chance. I
think there's probably going to be three English refs and
I'm not alluding to any bias or anything, but I
(40:24):
think that helps in how that the Rocks obviously managed
differently in the NRL to Super Lugue.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
As much referee and I've seen from English refs. Yeah,
I think you were pretty so that so that you
or I don't get sued there was some very interesting refereeing.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, I think, I think I think you were pretty
critical the Samowa series last year in the Tongue. I
remember what Christian Wolf wasn't happy about how slow the
Rocks were, and I particularly that first test. I agree
with him. But putting all that aside, yeah, I think
I think this England team you look at and you
look the English record since the last World Cup. Obviously
they've played France and flog France, that's not surprise, but
(41:05):
they've beaten Tonga three nil, they've beaten Samoa two nil.
They've done everything that they needed to do. And I
think a lot of those players have won World Club
Challenges for Wigan and Snelons, so the fear factor perhaps
of Australia isn't there. And then you've also got those
players who've done well in the NRL. So George Williams
(41:26):
did well at Canberra, Herbie Farnworth's killing at the Dolphins
and was great at the Broncos. Dom Young not in
great forum in the moment, but you know he's a
freaking athlete and you know he's topped the try scoring
charts in the NRL. So there's a good mix of
experience there and perhaps that psychological element, you know, the
(41:46):
fifty year kind of who doo, Maybe that's dissipated a
little bit. So I do think England can win our game,
and I think if they win one game then they're
a very good chance of winning a second. But if
I was the bookies, I would be having the Kangaroos
as as favorites. I'll look at it from another way too.
The last World Cup England lost to Samoa in the
(42:08):
semi I only won the first one, but the one
that mattered they lost in the semi I did a
week later Australia beat them by nearly thirty Yeah, so
couldn't even get to the final that Yeah, I mean
that that doesn't look good. You've got to remember and
that they played some of the first game fifty.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
So if those who were in the game know what
the support were up to when they arrived in England. Yeah,
well I think, yeah, you're gonna look I played in
the Grand Final two weeks before or.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah, you're going to look at the preparation of that
Samoan team in that game. And I think you're also
going to look at the selections that England had you know,
they had Mickey Mack, had Callum Watkins in at the center.
Who's a back rower? Now you had four forwards on
the bench, so you know there was maybe some questionable
coaching selection. But I think the spread of depth particling
(43:02):
the halves. You know, you've got Michael Lewis, got Harry Smith,
You've got George Williams. There's you know, the halves have
always been an issue for England. Great bon have they lee,
at least in the last fifteen to twenty years. You
look at the twenty seventeen World Cup there was Luke,
Luke Gale and Kevin Brown and that was a six
miel game that went right to the last minute. But
(43:23):
just they couldn't They couldn't execute, they couldn't they couldn't create.
But the forward pack, the forward England's always had, the forwards,
always had the forwards. So I think that's where the
edge could be, particularly if the Kangaroo pack is missing
some of that Pacific power. But yeah, I think it'll
be a fantastic series. Can't wait.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Do you think people can get on top of this issue,
get in touch with us to give us some ideas
for what to do on the podcast in the next
weeks and months as well. I'd love people to be
a bit interactive with us. Do you think people can
(44:06):
get hold of you Johnny in England? How would they
do it?
Speaker 2 (44:09):
They can get hold of me on on Twitter or
x and Johnny D Davidson. I'm pretty sure my email
addresses on the handle as well. Just hold off on
the abuse. But yeah, I love a bit of feedback.
I think we've got We've got an idea of some
guests and some some England and Great Britain legends, some
(44:30):
some Kangaroo's legends, maybe some assistant coaches or ex coaches.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
There's there's a lot. So this has been the overview episode.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
This is the introduction. This is the introduction, the.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Entree, the I can be contacted admin at rugbyley Coach
dot com, dot are you at Rugby League Coach and
all the social things apart from X where a Matt's
RL coach on the netbook type of rugbyley coach and
you'll find me. I've been xing a bit more lately
on Twitter and not staying ext girlfriends. And also I
(45:07):
want everybody to know that I am organizing a tour
to the first two tests and show you my home country.
So please get in touch and I'll send you all
the details when they are available. Johnny, just doing this
pod has made me even more excited.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Just on your on your tour. I'm sure there's going
to be a warning that strong livers must be required
to survive your tour.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
I knew you're involved in this part. I wouldn't do something, Johnny,
and you know it'd be great if we can, if
we can catch up and you can meet the people
that are listening to this podcast, or come on tour
as well.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
And maybe we can do a lot podcast.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Maybe we're the next Anton Deck or Hey, Mish and
Andy as the Osie cut like over.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I think we're a bit told to bet we and
not joining.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Yeah, take care a mate, Thank you, Thanks a lot.
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