Sacred Division interview Willie Windwalker Gibson

Bishop Long interviews Willie Windwalker Gibson

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:25):
From the mysteries of the paranormal to world headline news.
We cover it all. Welcome to the Sacred Division and
now Bishop James.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Long all right, Hello, hello, hello, and welcome everybody. Happy
Friday to you wherever you are. And there's a brutalful, brutleful,
brutalful world. Hey, it's Friday, you know what I mean,

(00:57):
It's Friday. Forget all the stress, for forget all the anxiety,
forget all that the craziness in the world. Just forget it.
Just tune it out. It'll be there, Believe me, after
the show, it'll be there. Tonight is paranormal Friday night,
and this is the night where we just chill. We
just chill. That's all we're doing. Well, thank you very much, Yessica.
We're just chilling. That's all we're doing now. So this

(01:20):
is tonight, Friday and Saturday is the only time that
we actually talk paranormal. That's it. And then the rest
of the week obviously the Bible study and night prayer.
So so we just have a good time on Friday
nights and Saturday nights. That is the goal. That's what
we're trying to do, trying to get your mind off
all the stress and frustrations and all this other crazy,
because I know there's a lot of that going on

(01:42):
in the world right now. There is just forget forget
about it now. I have I have hot off the
press from mister producer right before we went on. I
have just been informed that The Sacred Division, the radio

(02:03):
show that I've been hosting for twenty three years now,
has official merchandise official and there. It's pretty good that
they did a pretty amazing job. And I'll tell you
a little bit more about it. It said, but first, here's
what I need you to do. I need you to
go to a website. It is our sponsors kg R
A D is in dog b is in bicycle dot com,

(02:26):
kg r a dB dot com. And when you go
to that website, it's very simple to do. All you
gotta do, folks, is click on the shop link. When
you click on the shop link, you'll see my name,
Bishop James Long and they have amazing items up there.

(02:50):
Really it's pretty cool. But again, here's what you gotta do.
Kg R A D as in dog b as in
bicycle dot com and click on shop. Now here's what
I even like about this, even more So I've spoken
to kg r dB Radio and I've spoken to the
owners and mister producer and the other producers, and I

(03:11):
have told them, look, here's the deal. There is a
particular nonprofit organization that I have really just fallen in
love with. I know the owners. They are legitimate. I
did check them out, because you have to. You have
to check them out. They are located in Africa. They

(03:33):
are an orphanage and they help children, impoverished children who
are orphans, who have nothing, and they help feed them,
clothe them, shelter them and give them an education. So
every single proceed that would normally go to me for

(03:53):
the merchandise, we as a community, we are donating that
one hundred percent sense of all proceeds that we receive,
because this is our community. We are donating that to
an organization. And I'll tell you about this. I'll tell
you the organization a little bit later, maybe tomorrow, we'll
talk about it. I tell you what. I the owner

(04:19):
of this of this orphanage. You know, I saw him
online the other day and I gave him some gifts
and he was just crying because he had been praying
that God would help him out because they've been running
very low in funds and they're they're self funded and

(04:39):
they have I met the children. They are just beautiful.
It's a beautiful organization. And I know there's a lot
of organizations. There's a lot of organizations that are very fraudulent.
Yes there are, and I have done my due diligence.
I have looked them up. They are legitimate. So they're
good people. And this guy, he just has a heart

(05:00):
of gold, heart of gold, and I want to help,
and so let's do that. So here's what you gotta do.
And also the merchandise is pretty awesome. There's a lot
of Saint Michael stuff there too, a lot. So here's
we guys do kg R A d as in dog
b as in bicycle dot com and click on the

(05:22):
shop link. If one of my moderators, could you put
that there on the on the link. I just found
this out five minutes right before we went on lot,
so we're really excited about it. It's kg R A
d as in dog bs in bicycle dot com And
just click on the shop link and you'll see my
name and if you click my name, it takes your
right to the Sacred Division page and I am just

(05:47):
I ill, you know what, honestly I have. I'm so,
I'm honored and I'm blessed to be a part of
this community that will be able to help this organization.
And sometimes he'll come in and chat with us. And
so if I see his name, I'll let you guys

(06:07):
know when he comes into the chat. He comes in
often for night prayer, and so it's a special thing.
It's a special thing when you can get back, you
know what I mean. So I live a very simple life.
And because I live a simple life, and because I've
taken a vow of poverty to me, it's when you

(06:31):
push away from materialism, you know what. I am blessed
because my bills are paid. I got a roof over
my head. I have insurance. I pay for it, though
I pay one hundred and sixty dollars a month for it.
But you know, I can go in my kitchen and
I have food and the refrigerator. I don't eat a
lot anyway, but nonetheless, and I have ticktacs. Life is good.

(06:58):
Life is good. And see Diane, obviously, when you talk
about something kind people like Diane in the chat room,
this is the I want you to guys to see this.
People who are full of hatred and full of demotic
oppression hate to see love. They hate it, and when

(07:20):
they see love it they respond like Diane, you see so.
And this is how we deal with people who want
to spread hatred. We don't deal with it by giving
hatred back. We deal with it by saying we're to
pray for you because obviously you're projecting a lot of

(07:42):
insecurities that you have, and we continue to do a
love so I will em I don't know what your
name is on on book to the face, so I
don't know. She was blocked. She was blocked by Judy Anne,
so if she If people are blocked, that's usually because
you're being very disrespectful and rude, imagine. But nonetheless we

(08:05):
are here, so it Please go to kg R A
d as in dog b as in bicycle dot Com,
click on the shop and click on my name, Bishop
James Long and purchase those items and know that whatever
funds that will normally go to me will not go

(08:26):
to me. We as a community because it is us
because you're buying the items, and not only that you're
supporting the show, you're helping kg R A dB paybills
they sponsor. I'm using their platform, and so it helps everybody,
and it helps this orphanage. How great your reward will

(08:47):
be in heaven? Truly, truly, I believe that. Okay, Now,
if you want to go to my website because you're
really bored and you have nothing else better to do,
why would you? But if you if you really want, like,
if you really want to, you to Bishop James Loong
dot com. All right, yeah, they did the gianna. They
put it in the chat room. You guys can pen

(09:09):
it if you want to moderators kg r a dB
dot com and click on shop. Yeah, you guys can
pin it. So anyway, Bishop James Long dot com. Also,
if you want to go to the church's website, that's
very simple. It's us o c C dot org, us
o CC dot org. That's the church's website. Yeah, and

(09:32):
if one of the moderators, if you guys, I know
you're busy, but if you guys could up to just
put kg r a dB dot there you go, and
Tracey hand can you click? Can you pen that for
us there on on TikTok? Excellent? Thank you very much.
There you go, guys. Now you guys, have it and
click on store and you'll see my name. That's it.
Thank you, guys. I appreciate all of you, and I
appreciate the moderators. Let me tell you someth about the moderators.

(09:55):
The moderators are here seven days a week. I want everybody,
we're on seven days a week. There are many content
creators that never go on seven days a week. I
know some of them that never go live at all
because they say it's exhausting work. They never go live.
We're seven days a week, every single day. We are

(10:17):
online every day, and they are here faithfully. So I
mean we have some of the truly I think some
of the best moderators that you can possibly get really honestly.
You know, we're a tight group of people. They're also
members of the church community and they recognize this as
a as a ministry and they you know, they they

(10:40):
deal with a lot of hatred. Right now, we're okay,
I'd rather keep the I'd rather keep the chat on
for everybody on TikTok. As you all know, I don't
really like to put it off because it causes a
lot of other problems for me when we go live.
So if we can do me a favor. Let's try
to keep tetok We're going to try to keep the

(11:01):
chat open for everybody. Just be kind now, I know
that's hard for some people. Just be kind. Okay, Tonight
we have night prayer at ten pm Eastern Standard time.
Don't forget. Let me say this something very quickly, and
then we're going to go into the show. Okay, cannot

(11:21):
be on twenty four to seven. I appreciate that. But
so if you want to join us for night prayer,
this is what you need to do. And if you
want us to pray for your petition during night prayer,
this is what you have to do. If you're on TikTok,
go to my profile. I have uploaded a video for
today's night prayer that says, place your prayer request in

(11:45):
the comments before eight pm Eastern Standard time tonight and
we will pray for your prayer request this evening at
ten pm Eastern. You got to put you gotta put
that in the comments. Put your first name in there too. Okay.
If you are on all the other social media platforms here,
all you have to do is go to USOCC dot org.

(12:07):
It says it become a parishioner. Click here. You just
push it and it takes you to our book, to
the face group page. Mister producer, we have to say
that could sticktock will band you if you don't, and
then a Judy Ann always post every single day, place
your prayer petitions in the comments for tonight's night prayer

(12:27):
by eight pm Eastern. Remember, guys, you got to make
sure you do that, okay, and then we'll pray for
your petitions because we want to pray for them. Alrighty
tonight tonight, tonight, tonight, let's go. We have been waiting,
I think long enough. We've done a lot of great
invitations to go to websites and invitations. Tonight prayer and

(12:51):
tomorrow we're going to be here at eight pm Eastern
Santa Time for the Sacred Division weekend edition, and of
course Sunday will be here Bible study at eight pm.
Now tonight we are going to talk to about talk
to my buddy. His name is Willie Winwalker Gibson. I
have known Willy for oh my gosh, you know a

(13:12):
long time. Gosh. I was to ask him. It's been
a long time, twenty over twenty years. Yeah, going, I
think twenty five years now, So let me introduce our
special guests for today's show. Willie Winwalker Gibson comes from Louisville, Kentucky,
born on July seventh, nineteen fifty five. Willie's heritage is
a captivating blend of Native American Cherokee as am I.

(13:37):
My grandfather and grandmom grandmother were both Cherokee and also
so he came from Native American Cherokee from his father, Robert,
and Irish from his mom Opal. He was raised with
the belief that he was white until the age of ten,
and the revelation from his father transformed his sense of identity.

(13:58):
Now in nineteen sixty five, and misstious encounter led to
Willy experiencing a profound shift, awakening his connection with his
Cherokey roots and unlocking a deeper understanding of the world
around him. Now guided by ancestral wisdom, Willy embarked on
a transformative journey into the realm of shamanic spirituality, involving

(14:18):
into evolving into the revered figure that we know of
him as today, Shaman Winwalker. So we're going to delve
into Willy's extraordinary experience and wisdom on our show and
again for those of you are on TikTok, I will
leave chat open for everybody, but if it gets rude
and disrespectful, then I'm just going to put sub chat

(14:39):
on and we'll fix that problem just like that. So anyway,
just be kind. Okay, let's bring Willy win Walker in. Hello,
Willy win Walker and how are you doing today? My
dear friend, Hey, James.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
From Plan how ore you? And everybody?

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Well, you know we're doing where we're doing? Well, we're
just trying to, you know, pushed through as we're all
kind of doing, aren't we? Just every single day we
just kind of go forward, don't we. Yeah, that's all
we can do. That's all we can do. Tonight, folks,
I want to talk to Willie about everything that's related
to Native American paranormal because there's a lot of people

(15:19):
like to talk about Native American heritage and things of
this nature and they have no experience. Willy, how many
years of experience do you have within the paranormal community? Okay,
so sixty years? I think by that alone, folks, Willy

(15:39):
is honestly, when people want to talk about Native American heritage,
shamanism and any type of certainly any type of skin
walkers and things of this nature. Will he's the person,
all right, Yeah, I agree there, Judy Anne Free Palestine.
Yes from a moss, I agree. Okay, I'm gonna we're

(16:02):
gonna talk about first of all, skin walkers. A lot
of people don't know what a skin walker is. So
before we get into it, Willie, let's talk a little
bit about, uh, how you became a shaman? Uh? Tell
us about that that experience and are all people are
like for myself? You know, I have a Native American
heritage within within me. So how did you find out

(16:25):
that you were a shaman? And how does that work?

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Well, it's a calling, James uh As you know, I
started as a cop and I was posted in a
Native American barrel ground one night and a spirit.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Now just just just just remember we can't can't mention
any type of weapon. Just remember that because TikTok will
ban you and you can't say. You have to say
un alive. So just just a heads up on that
because Siktok's are very strict now with their rules and regulations.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Remember, Okay, Anyway, I was sitting in my patrol car
one night in a cemetery, and uh, it was raining,
and I've seen this figure walk out of the mist
and that was an Indian and I thought it kind
of strange because I was in the middle of a
paraground situation and this Indian just walked out of the mist.

(17:23):
And I got a patrol car and challenged the Indian,
and the Indian told me that he asked me what
my Indian name was, and I told him I didn't
have one. He said, from here from here out, you're
you're be known as Windwalker, he walks with the spirits,
and you're going to be a medicineman and a medicine man.
He came me a medicine man, Okay, I just I

(17:46):
just looked at him and then uh, he disappeared, and uh,
I didn't think any more about it. Of course, I'm
not going to radio in and say, hey, I saw
a ghost. You know, you don't do that when you're
a cop. And I just said I just didn't say
anything more about it because I had been able to
see and hear spirit since I was ten years old,
so it wasn't a big shock to me to see

(18:07):
if a spirit show up, So I didn't think anything
of it, and the next night he showed up again
but at the same time, and then we started a
conversation and he kept telling me that what my path
would be, and I kept telling him no, but he
kept that for me and after me, and finally I
just something inside of me said I had better listen
to this, you know, the spirit. And sure enough, you know,

(18:31):
a little little things started happening to me. More, more
energy and stuff like that started coming to me. I
think he was speeding me all this too, and I
was kind of I was kind of interacting with his energy.
Is the next thing I know, I was turning in
my badge and I was quitting the force, and I
went out on my own as a private investigator. That way,

(18:52):
I could kind of work my own way and learn things,
and I didn't have to I didn't have to answer
it anyway. So that's how I got started being a shaman.
And I started learning everything I could from other shamans
and so spiritual and physical. I had male shamans and
female shamans teach me what to do. And by the

(19:15):
time five six years went down the road, you know,
I came out in nineteen eighty eight when when I
met my wife, and she understood who understood who I was,
and we started working together in the paranormal world. And
that's how I got started to be in shaman and
learning learning different things and learning different techniques and learning about,

(19:40):
you know, the occult, and learning about the paranormal and
learning about spiritual stuff, both Native American and you know otherwise.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
So am Mary's asking a good question. Was a Native
American spirit that you talked to? Was that was?

Speaker 1 (19:57):
He?

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Was that spirit also a shaman?

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Okay, all right, now we're going to talk about skin walkers.
For those of you, there's a lot of information about
skinned walkers, and I think a lot of misinformation about
skinned skin walkers. So for those of you who are unaware,
skin walkers in the novel are considered powerful witches with

(20:22):
the ability to shape shift into animals and other humans. Allegedly,
they're often associate with malevolent magic or curses, dark rituals.
Would you say that it's correct, really or is there
something a bit more about skin walkers that the general
public doesn't know?

Speaker 3 (20:39):
That's about it? James. You know, I've had a few
cases involving skin walkers, and what I want to get
across the people out there, you know, especially paranormal investigators,
don't go looking for something like that. If you run
across the case that you think is a skin walker,
don't try to do anything about it. I think what
you need to do is turn around on a walk

(21:00):
away as fast as you can run if you can,
because there's no way you're going to take on something
like that that's supernatural. And even shamans are kind of
Larry taken on a taken note on a skin walker.
If if it's if it's could be done, we kind
of leave things like that alone. But if it faces
us and there's no way that we can get out

(21:22):
of it, then actually, James is a life in this situation.
I mean, it's a one on one thing, all right.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Do you mind if I kind of go over some
definitions that way we can kind of help people and
then we kind of go from there.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
How's that sure?

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Okay? So skin walkers are thought to be individuals who
have turned to dark magic. And again if this is
if information is incorrect or you want to add, just
let me know. Through dark magic, through ritualistic acts. They're
usually perceived as evil. They're featured in the novel by
novel communities. They can transforms allegedly into animals like wolves, coyotes, foxes, birds.
They're believed to wear animal skins, use supernatural powers, or

(22:00):
deceive and harm. Encounters are often described as unnerving sightings
of strange animal behavior, dark silhouettes, human figures with animal features.
The taboos is really talk openly about skinwalkers is considered dangerous.
Navajo elders warn of curses or retaliation. If the topics
discussed disrespectfully or even publicly by some people, then the

(22:23):
window goes. The Windogoes are interesting. They're a mythic creature
or a spirit that is associated with insatiable greed, of
hunger and even cannibalism. It's believed to be malevolent, ghostly
entity that possesses human spirits or humans and manifest physically
as a monster. Then we're going to talk about also
the thunder bird, which is interesting, and some other things

(22:45):
as well. So before we get into this presentation, there's
a lot of topics. Can you share the origins of
the skinwalker legend within the Native American folklore? What significance
does like it hold in the Cherokee tradition or Noveljo tradition.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
James, at least like you said it, it originated back
with a novel ho and it's out west and it
kind of migrated, you know, through different tribes in Cherokee too.
A lot of people think that the skin walker will
staying in a certain area, but a skin walker could

(23:24):
be anywhere in any state. And what people don't realize
a skin walker, if you take on a skin walker,
it will follow you. If you take on a skin
walker in one state and you move to another, and
you take on this thing, and it will follow you.
It will it will stalk you. It will stalk your family,

(23:45):
your friends. Uh, it's once. Once it's tagged you, you
know you're going to have to fight it. The best
thing to do if if you run across a skin walker,
or even even a hint of a skin walker being
around you, you don't you leave it alone, because really
a normal person can't take on a skinwalker. Only somebody

(24:05):
like being a shaman or a medicine person can take
it on, and even then it will be a battle
for one of us.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
And this is what I want to do. I want
to separate, I want to talk about skin walkers. Then
the wind to go perhaps maybe the thunderbird. Various tribes
talk about that, the Hoya forest, perhaps maybe some other
things as well, And I want to separate that way,
we're not going back and forth and confusing people. Now
with the skinwalkers, we're going to talk about first, So

(24:35):
let's talk about some here's some questions that I have
and if you have any questions guys about skin walkers
only right now, and then we'll go into the Windo goes.
It just makes it more easier to do this. What
are the traditional for okay, skin walkers, Are they demons
or are they human beings that are witches that have
done the horrible evil things? Because some people are going

(24:58):
to say, now, look, not all witch is are evil,
and I get it, But when I'm strying to I'm
trying to figure out, are our skin walker's spiritual beings
or are they actual physical human beings that have you know,
obviously the flesh and bones as you have that I have.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Actual flesh and bones. They gave their their lives over
to evil and their their evil witches. Now you and
I know a lot of witches and they're good witches
and they're dark witches. And I've met both on both sides,
and I've taken especially I've taken on dark witches over

(25:36):
years and years and years for years and years, and
uh I have. You can count on one hand the
actual cases that I had with a skin walker because usually,
you know, unless unless you really go out and you
people don't really realize the skin walker can be conjured,
it can be asked to come and do evil things

(26:00):
against somebody by somebody, because I've worked a couple of
cases like that. But they're actually flesh and bone, and uh,
they can they can shape shift, and they can also change.
People don't realize they can also change their appearance to
look like a regular other human being, you know. I mean,
uh uh, skin walkers are evil looking, but they can

(26:24):
transform themselves into another person too. So you have to
be careful when you're talking to somebody, especially if you're
talking in the subject of a skin walker. I mean,
it's it's it's true that you really don't want to
even speak of one of them.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
You know.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
I can talk to other Native American people and they
don't want to even to a shaman. They don't want
to talk about it. So, uh, it's a it's a
regular flesh and bone person and that can that has
the ability to shape shift in the in the like
a wolf or any or any kind of can or
anything like that, or even a bird that they can

(27:03):
say for you, but yeah, you can. They can also
be human. Okay too for.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Those of you just joining us. So I'm Bishop Blong.
We're talking to our friend Willie Wynn Walker Gibson, who
is a shaman. And one of the things that we
do here the on the Sacred Division, and I've always
done this is I interview people from all walks of life,
all faiths, all beliefs. Willy is, by the way, a Christian,
as is his wife is. They're both devout Christians. And

(27:30):
so he's a shaman and he has Native American heritage,
and so we're talking to him. He's had sixty years experience,
and I think this is important when you close your
mind and say no, I'm not going to talk to
anybody that's outside of your realm of what you believe,
and you really have no capacity to learn from a
different perspective now, thank you. And so that's what we're

(27:51):
doing on this show. I don't have a lot of guests,
very rare that I it's rare that I do, but
sometimes I do, and I think it's always import An
intelligent person is an individual that's willing to and wanting
to speak to other people other perspectives, to hear what
they have to say, to analyze what they have to say,

(28:13):
and then for there after you gain to gather all
the information you can decide whether or not you agree
or not. But that's that really is a mark of
intelligence when you're able to have a conversation with someone
that you may not agree with, or perhaps a different faith,
a different culture. We all must learn from one another
because that's important, that's absolutely crucial. Now, there was a

(28:37):
question here on TikTok. Sorry I didn't get the name,
but someone was asking, can a skinwalker enter a Christians
a person who's a Christian enter their home? Sure they can, okay, now, not.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Like it's not like you see any old vampire movies.
You have to be invited in. But where they come
they can come in. They can't even go into a
church when you know they can go any place they
want to. I mean they have that that I guess,
that evilness about them, the power about them, and uh,
what people don't realize out there about me. I come

(29:17):
from a Christian family and I was I had ministers
in my family. My dad was a lady minister. I'm
an ordained Pentecostal minister. So, uh, you know, I've got
the best of both worlds because I've I've learned to
use what I've had. I can do the Meydive American
way or I can do the Christian way, and I've
had to use them both combined when doing cases too.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
All right and fair enough. So the question then, can
you describe what are the rituals or precautions that that
a shaman uses to ward off or protect against skin walkers?

Speaker 3 (29:54):
Well, James, you know, like when you do exorcisms or
so things you do that you keep to yourself. The
shamans are the same way. They don't like to tell
people what they have, what they do when they have
to ward off with skin walker or do even work
or even go even further. And we talked about that

(30:15):
being on TikTok. You know when when shamans sometimes have
to go out and destroy evil and uh, we you know, shams,
will I tell you what we have to do to
do that? You know, It's like you don't talk about.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
I don't mean to be noir. That's fair.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
I asked that you've got to be careful when when
we talk about this.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
So let's talk about let's talk about so again, folks.
We're gonna talk about skinwalkers first and then window goes.
So what are some of the most terrifying encounters that
you have heard or even experienced as a shaman that's
related to skin walkers.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
A couple of years back, a friend of ours contacted us.
I want I won't tell their names, but you you know,
I don't know they might have told you the story.
Contacted me and told me that this family had contacted
them and they were having trouble what they thought was
a skin walker. They had also brought in a paranormal team,
and the paranormal team investigated it, and evidently they got

(31:20):
so scared that they were scared off the case. They
didn't go back because these people lived on like a
rural area and they had a farm and barn and
all that kind of stuff, and they were having promised
with some sort of creature coming out and messing with
their livestock and things. So they figured it was just

(31:41):
a regular person thing like a wolf, for you know,
coyote or something like that, or a bear, and it
was messing around with their livestock. And they come to
find out they ran up against what they thought was
a skin walker. So they contacted a friend of ours
and they contacted me and told me that what was

(32:02):
going on. So I told them I conveyed the message
to tell those people to leave the area for a
while until I figured out what I wouldn't do this
because this this this case was all the way across
the country. And I'm just like you, James, when when
I get a case sometimes I can't get there because
of financial you know, and I had to really, you know,

(32:23):
trying to find another practitioner to go out and check
it out. And from what I was told, they were
they were dealing with a skin walker. And evidently they
must have made somebody mad and conjured up this this
thing to come and cause them problems. So I was
giving them, giving counsel to the person that asked me

(32:45):
for help, and they were going back to the family
and telling them what to do. Basically, I told them
to get away from their move if they have to,
I mean, just leave everything, because if it was a
skin walker, there's no way they can take it up,
and you know, they can to fight it. They wanted to,
they were they would have lost. So I started, you know,

(33:07):
they did what I told them to. They left the area.
And uh, as soon as that happened, I you know
that this was I forget where this was. This was
like and I don't know, some Peyer to Ohio or
something like that. As soon as I did that, I started,
I got a phone call. I started getting phone calls

(33:27):
from that area and hang ups and I would get
like heavy breathing and things like that, and it was
what it was. It was warning for me to get
off the case and not say anything more about it.
Well I did. I just stopped, and I told the
person I was working with, we need to back off
and let this ride for a while. So several weeks

(33:49):
went by and I get a call with the person
I was helping, and they said that the family was missing.
They were gone, you know, they you know, they had
left everything, they had left belongings or clothes, you know,
all the things and do anything was you know, gone
was their vehicle and they nobody knew where they were at.

(34:11):
So evidently they either took my advice or something aful
happened that we don't know about. So that was that
was one case that I was doing from here, trying
to go against this creature, which I think sent me
a warning to back off before it came looking for me.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
So the question is, so, would you define anse skin
walker as a demon that takes on a human apparition
or body, or would you say that it is a
human human being that is evil, that has the ability,
through whatever demonic influence, to basically shape shift, if you will,

(34:54):
into whatever desire that they wished to cause havoc.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
I think James personally, I think it's a demonic uh
entity that has taken over a certain person that was
evil and they were end up dark arts and they
just wanted to become a lot of people out there
don't realize uh skin walkers want to be skin walkers.
They want the power. They want to be able to

(35:21):
shave hif they want to be able to do the
evil stuff. You know, they want the power.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
And I'd rather not have sub chat. I sent a
message there. It's just if we can, I'd rather not so,
guys on TikTok, if you can't be polite, we're gonna
I don't want to put sub chat on, but I will.
I'd rather not. Uh so, just just be just be kind,

(35:48):
just be nice, that's it. Just be nice. Yeah, just.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
So you know, James gives me. People get on the
on the there and they want to you know, not
be nice, be yet they're they're interested in what we're
talking about. You know, if they don't know what we're
talking about, then they need to just back off and
not not have any opinion. Because people real don't realize. Yeah,

(36:18):
the paranormal, you know, is another type of thing that
only certain people like you know, but people don't realize
the paranormal has been here for hundreds and you know,
thousands of years and uh even even the Bible had
a lot of things taken out of it that was paranormal,
you know. I mean the people don't realize legends, some

(36:43):
lot of legends are real. You know. You take the
legend of Bigfoot, you know, you know, it's been caught
on film and I've been asked about it and what
it is, and you know, and window goes and and
some skin walkers and ets. I've ran into a lot
of that and worked on a lot of that stuff.
And people said I don't believe, you know, leave you

(37:05):
down all us, but I have. I've done this. I've
been sixty years and actually it's found me when people
realized what when I came out, when people realized what
I was, I had people coming to me and this
is going on, that's going on. I've had I don't
know how many paranormal investigators come and asked me, you know,

(37:26):
even to even to teach some things. I've been picked
up and took the place up and blind flow, blindfolded
and took the places and they wouldn't even tell me
where I was at and got out and done investigations
so people wouldn't realize what I've been through for the
last sixty years. And you know, a lot of stuff
that came up, like you know, like when skin walkers

(37:49):
and windy goes and ets and UFOs and cryptids and
all kinds of stuff that I've run into. You know,
they asked me about it, and then they think I'm crazy,
But I know when I'm talking about I've seen it.
And you know, you know a lot of people's asked
me under the table, you know, what's going on and
how do I deal with this? And then they want

(38:09):
to turn around. People get on there say data da
da day. You know I don't believe you and start
cussing it in the stuffing that I've gone.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Through it all well let me of course, and also
you don't charge, so I mean there is no ulterior
motive otherwise you've seen some things. Let me ask you
how often, Yeah, we're gonna we're forget trows. How often
do skin walkers differ from other shape shifters or spiritual
beings in Native American tradition?

Speaker 3 (38:35):
Just about what they do? They don't do anything good.
I mean everything they do is evil, and they stay
in the background until they have a reason to come out.
Like I said, a lot of people out there and
don't realize that a lot of these skinwalkers are conjured.
If a person knows is evil and they know how
to conjure up one of these things, you know, it's

(38:56):
almost like if you've ever seen the movie Pumpkinhead, it's
almost like that, you know, you go and do you
know you call this thing out to do your bidding
for you? So you know, it's like that they skin
walkers stay in the background and hid until they the
right times for them to come forward.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
So is is there a particular time of night or
year when the skinwalkers are believed to be most active
or powerful.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
No, they're they're They're the same all the time, James.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
So let's talk about your experience with a skin walker.
Has there ever been an experience where you have had
a skin walker situation and did it kind of frighten you?

Speaker 3 (39:37):
I have wrote about this in the magazine articles way
back when I don't want to over twenty years. I
get a call from this person, you know again. They
live in kind of like a rural area. They were
having problems. They thought it was some kind of animal again,
and they wanted me to come out and check it out.
This was way before shamonomy. My wife got together and

(40:00):
I went on a h out and checked this area out.
And uh I when I got there, you know, the
guy came out and introduced himself and his family or everything,
and he told me what was going on. He hear
they you know, hear weird sounds and they a lot
of their animals were being killed and he thought it
was some kind of animal, but he didn't know quite

(40:21):
what it was. He kind of kind of caught a
glipse of something running. It kind of looked like, uh,
you know who walking upright. So I told him I
would take you know, I would take a you know,
take a look at. So I decided to spend the night,
you know, and I stayed outside, and you know, I
was out of sight, and uh, sure enough, I guess

(40:43):
it was about two o'clock in the morning. I started
hearing rustling in the woods and branches cracking and all
this kind of stuff. And I was watching what was
going on, and this thing came out. It looked like
a lot of different things together. It could looked like
a wolf, some a wolf, and then it would turn

(41:04):
and it looked like a bear, and then it would
turn another way and it would look like another type
of animal. And then I went out and I had
had no choice. I went out and I challenged it,
and it stood James probably I know, like if I
was where my house is, right across the street from
my house, it would probably be maybe maybe one hundred

(41:27):
feet and it just looked at me and I could
see the red eyes and this thing, I mean it
was I mean, I stood there and I'm saying to myself, now,
how am I going to do? What am I going
to do, you know, because I didn't have my medicine
bag with me, and I knew what I needed to
do and in case this thing came forward, you know,
because I know how to take care of this thing.

(41:49):
You know, there's certain tools that I had that I
could use against it and really get rid of it.
And it knew and I challenged it, and I told
him who I was and what I who I was,
and it could feel my energy. I can I can
see that. And to look at this thing, James, I mean,
it was like the worst horror film that was that

(42:13):
you could be in and you're actually there, you know, and.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Then and it's not no guy, Yeah, what's in your
medicine bag? And of course do you when you do this,
do you use you invoke the name of Jesus Christ.
Someone's asking that, and what's in the medicine bag?

Speaker 3 (42:27):
I combined everything, James. I used the name of Jesus Christ.
I had religious uh, things that had been blessed uh.
And I had of course, I had a certain type
of weapon, which I'm not going to tell what it is.
I had. I had another type of powder that I'm
not going to tell what it is. And it knew

(42:47):
I had it, It could feel it, and I told it,
if you want to, if you want to exist, you'll
go away from here and never come back, because if
you do, I will take care of you. Of course,
I didn't tell them in that kind of words because
I had to speak a certain language on.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
TikTok, you know, right.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
But I was telling things that I that was very stern,
and it looked at me and it just kind of
growled a little bit and it kind of it kind
of backed up. You know, if you can imagine if
you saw a werewolf movie, the worst werewolf movie you
ever saw, put a werewolf in a bear and another
type of animal gary with horns and stuff like that,

(43:31):
that's what you had. That's what it looked like to me.
So it backed up, and when it did, it realized,
you know, that that that area was under a shaman's
protection or medic a man's protection. So after it left,
I knew it was going to come back. But there's
some things I did. So I went and I put
a barrier up around the area with some sacred salt,

(43:54):
buss salt, and I had other types of things that
I went and buried in the hard which and then
like I said, I made a barrier around it, and
I went on and on and decide to tell the
people that, uh, they weren't going to have any more problems,
and they didn't because I waited about three weeks after
I left there and I called him and he said,

(44:15):
they never had another problem, and they still have another problem.
So that's one time that I was lucked out because
this thing could have challenged me, and that kind of
challenge was one of us wasn't gonna walk you know,
one of one of us wasn't going.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
To walk away. So well, let's talk about the wind.
Let's talk about the Wind to Go, because I'm telling
you there's so much was that you think.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
If you think a skin walker is bad, this the
window goes worse than a skin walker because this thing
is cannibalistic. I mean at each flesh, you know it
it's it was created too by evil. You know. It's
kind along the lines of a skin walker, but it's

(44:58):
it's even worse because these uh they're the way the
Mason goes Wind to Go will actually eat their own
family and they live off of human flesh, you know,
and uh, and they have really strong evil power about

(45:19):
them again. Uh, I was called down in a case
about a wind to Go, and it's along the same
lines of what I just said. They want to see,
they want they don't want to really come in town
and do all this stuff. They want to they want
to hurt people on ranches and farms and things like
that in the forest and all that.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Well, real, real quick, real quickt The descriptions are the
way to Go are often depicted as tall uh, emaciated,
glowing eye, sharp claws, unnaturally elongated face.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Many people say that it's such a breathe cold air
and embodies greed starvation. The destructive nature of excess sightings
include ghost laporation, code spots, hearing, unnerving whispers, and snowy fusts.
Some claim to have seen large humanoid figures or strange
creatures lurking in the woods. There are some people that

(46:10):
believe that the tall man that many people talk about
is a Windogo, and Native American Native legends emphasize that
the Windogo is a cautionary tale about selfishness and moral corruption.
But there are many people who absolutely believe that they
do exist. So let's talk about the Windo goes. If
you don't mind. Let's get into that conversation because there's

(46:31):
so much I mean there are we could go five
hours on just on the skin walkers alone. But let's
talk about windigoes. So how can one identify a wind
togo from like a regular animal or a human or
even a skinwalker?

Speaker 3 (46:50):
This thing is it looks like a bunch of different
creatures put together things. And you talk about smell, if
you can take if anybody has ever smelled decomp which
being a cop, I've done it, and I've actually worked
in a morgue, and I know the smell when I
smell it. You could tell when this thing is coming.

(47:12):
And like I said, this thing, I knew it was there.
It didn't this one particular hairs. It didn't show itself
to me because again it knew what I was, and
I know what it was. But I could smell it,
and I could see when I was looking in a
forest and like a deep forest, and I could see
these red glowing eyes. And if I could, all I

(47:34):
can do is make out the silhouette of something very
very tall, and you know, and you could tell this
thing was was very powerful. Again, I challenged it like
I did before, you know Shamans has to challenge things
like that to let whatever that's thing, the evilness or
the creature whatever, to let them know you're they're willing

(47:57):
to take them on and they're willing to to not
exist anymore. Are they willing to not exist in a
or that's what they have to think worry about. Do
I want to exist or do I want to leave
this guy alone? And a lot of times, I you know,
I've said, I said to myself when I pray, does
it please please go back to where you come from,

(48:18):
because I don't want to do this because I knew
I was going to get hurt or worse if I
tangled with this thing. I mean, I had the tools
that I need, I mean, uh, to destroy one of
these things, I mean, you really have to go to
town on it. And I didn't want to really do that.
If I can, if I can, if I can, I'm

(48:40):
not coward. But if I can calm a situation down
where I won't have to hurt anything or anybody, I
will do it. But to take one of these things,
you really have to use your spirituality, you know, your
Christianity and everything else against it. Because well that these
things that you use against It has to for good

(49:01):
that evil.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Yeah, and folks, again, keep in mind, for those of
you who just joining us, we're talking to our friend
Willie Winwalker Gibson, who is a shaman. I have no idea,
miss Orizza. You've been asking about that over and over
and I don't know what that is. So you're gonna
have to explain what that is. So he is a shaman.
He's talking about his experience in working these cases. He's
been in this ministry now for sixty years, and so

(49:26):
he's been doing it for a long long time. And
so let's talk about this ken. The windowgows take on
human form like the skin walkers can. If so, how
does the shape shifting then occur.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
I've never known of one to shape shift into a
human form. Chames it most what it looks like. I mean,
it will not change. I've never seen one change shift
change personally.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Okay, and how do you And you said, if you
know that one is by your house? Is this smell?
Primarily it's a really horrible false. Yeah. Is there are
there any other? Are there any of the signs that
let you know that one is near your home?

Speaker 3 (50:08):
When to go? Will leave? Like a warning. It will
leave like a dead animal or something hanging out of
a tree. Uh. The the uh, the one I had
had kind of like a whistle to it, you know,
not a growl, but kind of like a whistle, kind
of like a hiss. And that's enough to curl your
toes just hearing that. But it will leave warning signs

(50:33):
that it's there and it's coming for you. Again. Uh,
what I did once once, once I challenged it. That
backed up a little bit. I did the same thing
that I did the skin Walker case. I went on
ahead and put a barrier up. What that when a
when a shaman puts a barrier up, that is like
you're they're marking their territory that said this is this

(50:54):
is protected by me. Do not do not cross that mind.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Okay, so we have a question. I got word this
bill in a way that we're not going to get
in trouble from from TikTok because they're very strict. They
don't even like the word candle with the sea. They
don't even like that, So you can get dinged on that.
So I've got to be really careful about how I
word this because they don't. You can't say that the
can't the c a n you know, where you're eating flesh,

(51:19):
you can't say it. You can be blocked. Uh so
is it certainly? So? Isn't a wind? So the question
that Bill is asking is is a win to go
a human that is that has changed as a result
of consuming according to folklore?

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Yes, and uh it's it's almost it's a win to
go when once it does that, they're cursed by God. Okay,
they're cursed.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
So like Jeffrey Dahmer would certainly be cursed. Yeah, because
he because he went into he actually, Jeffrey Dahmer went
into a trance before he did these terrible things. He
actually watched the Exorsus three and there was one particular
scene that he even said it put him in this
deep evil trans And so what if you what advice

(52:11):
would you give someone if if they feel that they
might be attacked or even haunted or whatever might be
through a skin walker or wind to go?

Speaker 3 (52:24):
The only thing they can do is at Jay James
is contact somebody like me. A regular paranormal group cannot
take something like that. I've bore of many a group
that said that's what they're dealing with. And I've told
them leave, do not, do not, do not approach it,
and do not try to take it on, and maybe

(52:44):
even said, well, come come with us and you do it. No,
I'm not going to take it on. If it's not
bothering me. I'm not going to take it on. If
I can get to leave the other people alone, I will.
But a lot of times I've told them, okay, you
go ahead and leave the area. I'll go and take
care of business and then I'll leave and hopefully that'll

(53:08):
be it. But you know, I don't know what it is, James.
It's almost like paranormal groups are like they think they're invincible,
they think they can take anything on, and a lot
of them don't realize what they're getting into. Many of
them are told don't do that, and they go out
and do it anyway, and they come running back to me, Look,
we've done this, and you're going to have to go

(53:29):
and do no. Don't you know if they if they had.
I had a group one time that went against something
like this and they messed it up. Luckily they were
on property that nobody lived on that they just wanted
to go investigate the woods and they had a rumors
or something like that going on. And then they went
out and done that, and I said, hope you better

(53:52):
hope that this thing doesn't doesn't find you follow you.
Luckily they didn't, and uh, you know, I just tell people,
you know, if if you's no way you can get
out of it, contact a shaman, because shaman snow what
to do. I mean, it's just like you, James. You
know you have to send the investigators out if you
get a case and make sure you know you're gonna

(54:15):
it's a it is a real demonic case and you're
going to have to go and do your thing. A
lot of times you've seen that it's something that it's
not demonic. Same thing with me. You know, I have
to be sure before I go and take on something
like this because if it's a if you get into
battle of one of these things, only one is going

(54:35):
to walk away.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Has there ever been a case where you have dealt
with either a wind to go or a skin walker? Uh,
and that you thought, okay, this is uh, this is
too much.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
There are too much. But once I'm there, I have
to do it. I've got to show it that that
I'm willing to take it on. You know, once a
shaman takes a case like that, and any shaman will
tell you they'll go out and do it, even if
it means not coming back. But shanan went not back
off once you once they decided to take on something
like this and it got to and sure, you know

(55:12):
what it is.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Right, But has there been a case where you were
maybe physically where it attacked you. No, I didn't let
it get that close, but you felt its presence.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Yeah, I could see it, but they wouldn't go any
closer to a certain point because it knew who I
was and what I could do if it came any closer,
and I would have So how I had Okay, I
wouldn't have no choice.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
I've asked you now three times to define that word,
and if you don't do it, I'm going to block you.
So I'll ask the question. But I've asked you three
times to explain what that room? What that what that
what that room is that you're referring to. That's the
last time I'm gonna with the last time I'm going
to address that. So what protection or rituals do do

(56:05):
Native Americans? Do shamans deal with when you're dealing with
let's say a demonic versus a wind to goo versus
a skin walker or is it the same?

Speaker 3 (56:18):
It's all the same. It's all the same ritual games.
Your shams will use Earth's wind, fire, and water, and
we'll also use certain certain things that we carry in
our medicine bag, which I won't say a lot of
this stuff that we carry in the medicine bags, it's
it's it's been blessed, and it's certain types of metals

(56:38):
and things like that, and powders and things that we
use that we make up that that will that will
ward off these things.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Okay, are there any sacred places or sites or let's
say states that are more known for skin walker or
wind to go activity? Uh?

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Skin rookers usually stick close to you know, out west.
You know, I have ran into one skinwalker in twenty
years or twenty five years out this way. Wind to
Go is usually you know, they're not down this far south,
they're up We're in the north.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Okay. So are any of them primarily located in Kentucky
or Indiana or are they pretty much what would you say,
west or h Like.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
I said, wind to goes usually stay close to north
around Canada and New York and things like that. Skinwalkers
are mostly out west, you know, around New Mexico, Arizona,
places like that, Utah. You know, you get the Skinwalker Ranch,
which that's a whole new different ball game they're dealing with.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Me, do you believe that Do you believe the Skinwalker Ranch? Willie?
Do you believe that there's that's legitimate or do you
believe that's just hype for a television show?

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Skin James, This place has been investigated for fifty years
and they've had things going on there. Yeah, they're dealing
with portals, multiple portals there and creatures coming out of
them and everything else and flying saucers everything. They got
those portals there and the energy. What they're dealing with

(58:19):
now is a huge energy portal. I do believe that
there is a underneath the Mesa. There's probably a priced
some kind of a press ship there they're dealing with.
So yeah, I think they're really running into that thing.
But you know, for TV, they've made it instead of

(58:39):
keeping a secret, you know, they've gone on ahead made
a TV series. I love it things, But yeah, this
thing has been investigating for fifty sixty years and they've
been running to all kinds of things, and yeah, they're
skin walker's there.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
So let's see. Okay, let's see that you're out in Arizona.
Maybe you're you and your family are going out to
the desert and you want to see the beautiful sky
highlight and you want to see the stars. And but
but they're allegedly there are these skin walkers in this area. One,
how do you know you're going to come across a
skin walker? And then two if you do, what do

(59:14):
you do in the present moment?

Speaker 3 (59:19):
Turn around and leave as fast as you can?

Speaker 2 (59:21):
So how do you but how do you know if
if that is a skin walker? What are the signs
so that people can say, yep, that's a skin walker,
we're out of here.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
What I what I believe in and you know, I've
known this happened. They will keep a keep away from
people unless you just accidentally run onto one if they
see if they unless you challenge it, it would go
the other way, you know. But if you if you
think there's a skin walker out there and you know
you know it's you know it's in the area, and

(59:50):
I would just turn around and leave as long as
you don't challenge it and will leave you.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Alone and the same thing for a wind to go?
Then what if you are in an area where you're
just outside with your family or your friends, and you're
you're wanting to look up at the sky and you
smell this horrible smell that you're referring to, uh, And
how would they know it's a wind to go?

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
They unless they challenge it days it will stay out
unless it's been challenge it will it will leave you
alone just if you if you feel it, you could
feel the evil us in the area with a smell,
get in your car and leave it. Go the other way.
Don't don't go looking to say I want to see
what this thing looks like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
You don't want to do that, all right, So if
you're out and out and your body is telling you
something is not right, it's time to get in the car.
It's time to get out of here, then you don't
question it. You just go.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
You just go.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Now New Orleans is we all know New Orleans is
a place where there's all kinds of things running around
in Noworleans and Louisiana allegedly, do you believe there are
skin walkers and window goes there? Do you belie believe
that there are some people believe in vampires. Do you
believe vampiresm is a form of a wind to Go
or a skin walker or no?

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
No, no, those two things are totally two different things.
And I haven't I haven't heard anything about skinwalkers or
Windygoes being that far you know, into like into New
Orleans and things like that, as far as be a
cult in New Orleans based mainly to voodoo and things
of that nature and vampires. You know, we've talked about

(01:01:32):
that too, you and me, And yeah, that's that's basically
what they're into in that area.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
As did you never been there?

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Never been there? I have asked. I haven't even been
asked there on the case. And if I was in
my situation now, I couldn't go anyway, but I would
love to go and just to you know, look around.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Sure, sure, yeah, I mean just the history of the
history alone. Now, how much do you know there's a
lot of talk about the bad Lands. Wind to Go
skin walkers allegedly exists in the or They people see that,
you know, they see these creatures in the bad Lands
and again win it goes through malevolent spirits from the
algonquin our folklore, I believe to be possessed humans. We

(01:02:18):
talked about what they do. Skin Walkers are shape shifting
witches are witch doctors from the Navajo tradition. They have
the ability to transform to animals known to inhabit remote
isolated areas. So a lot of people speak about the
bad Lands. Do you know much about the bad Lands.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Basically, James, I think the bad Lands hous a certain
energy for these creatures, you know, they feed off the
energy and the bad Lands.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Yeah, and the bad Lands there's the bad Lands National Park.
I know, it's situated in the southwestern south of South Dakota.
There's also there's also bad Lands like Willy just said,
and there's several places Alberta, Canada, Spain, China, even Turkey.
Would you say that if you go to the bad
Lands in southwestern you know, South Dakota, you have a

(01:03:07):
high chance of running into a skinwalker could be James.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
But if you, like I said, if you feel something,
go the other way. I mean, people don't realize they
have psychic energy. They just got to know how to
use it and zero in on it. A lot of
times it comes forward, you know, especially if you're in
danger it's just like you. You know, people say, I've
got this gut feeling, well that you go with a
gut feeling and go the other way.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
So do the skin walkers and the window goes. Do
they communicate to you telepathically? Some people have even heard
people say that they do. Some people say no, they
do not. They just make growls or or you know,
to scare you away.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
So do they do they telepathically?

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
They can?

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
They do?

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
And so what what stories have you heard regarding them?
Have you ever heard of how they've what people have
experienced with that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
A lot. I've heard one rumor, you know, I don't
know story or rumor that this one person ran across
I guess I would say it was a wind to
go that tried to get this person to come into
the forest. And I was actually called about this case too,
as I remember, and I told them not to do it.

(01:04:21):
I mean, don't you know a lot of these cases, James,
I get, especially around this area, has to do a
forest area where they can be concealed. You're not going
to see a wind to go walking down, you know,
down the street. They try to, they try to and
skinwalker's through if they especially if they've been conjured against
you try to lure you into their where they're safe.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Yeah, well that makes sense. And there's a lot of
people who are absolutely on online saying absolutely, you're one
hundred percent right. So there's a lot of I guess
a lot of folks know a lot about skin walkers
and the window goes. So if I were to as
an exorcist, if I were to show up, let's say
I was going to this area that perhaps close to
skinwalker ranch. Let's say I got really close to skinwalker rants,

(01:05:10):
would you believe that I would have any type of
reaction or do you think that these skin walkers would say, Okay,
we're just not going to be involved with this guy.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Okay, James. People out there don't realize you have abilities.
I mean, you're not just an exorcist, but you have
a lot of abilities, and you get up a lot
of energy that that that a evil part of the
world knows when you're in an area, especially an area
that's got creatures and things like that in it, and

(01:05:41):
they know you know you what type of person you
were in and you you are, and you will feel
that energy too from them because it's good against evil
and you've done this all your life, and you can
you you sent it too, just like when I go
to you know, a couple of times when I went
to Bill which I went into the town and I

(01:06:01):
actually started getting the generous because that energy from that
town was getting to me before I even got to
the area where I was supposed to be at. So
it's the same if you would go out to one
of them areas.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Would you say the bell Witch? Because Willie was on
the television show called I think what was it called again,
the bell Witch? Curse of the bell Witch, yep, Curse
of the bell Witch, and he was there. They asked
him to go and do a shamanic ritual to bless
the clans the area. Would you say that the bell Witch,
which we should do a show on that one day.
Would you think that I think we did. Would you
say that the bell Witch was a Windo goo?

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
No, okay, no, this was the bell Witch is a
witch that was as actually Native American, but as much
as I've been after twice, and I've told him twice
what they were dealing with, and they kind of blew
it off because you know, the bell Witch is a
money making proposition in that area and that they make
money off at and they want to they want somebody

(01:06:58):
like me. I've actually told not to come on property,
not even go around that cave.

Speaker 4 (01:07:02):
No more.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Oh wow, because you're trying to cleanse it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
Yeah, well they you know, I told him. Yeah. They
even the first show I did there, they even challenged
me to stay overnight in the cave. The person owned
it and was laughing and he said, I bet you
you won't stay the night. I bet you I'll go
in and spend the night you want me to on
camera and he kind of changed his little attitude. He said, no,

(01:07:28):
you know, because he knew I could go inner and
spend the night out. Nothing would happened to me. But
I told everybody, I've told everybody this is Native American
based what's going on there?

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Yeah, and you know, I I've done a presentation walking through.
I've done a presentation on the Appalation Mountains actually several times.
I probably would do another one, but yes, there there
have been. There's a lot of paranormal activity, uh in
the Appalationan Mountains quite actually a whole lot. Let me
let me here's a story that someone sent me, and
I'm kind of curious. I'd like to see what your
what your input is on this at the That's okay, okay,

(01:08:02):
So Sarah, we'll just call her Sarah. She said she
was driving home late one night. She she's in Arizona
on a deserted road when she saw a figure that
was walking alongside the road. But she got closer and
she realized it was tall. It's a shadowy figure it had,
she said, it had glowing eyes and the figure suddenly

(01:08:25):
turned to look at her with She described it a
very twisted, freakish is what she said, smile and felt
a sense of dread that just completely came over her.
She drove away very very fast, and as she took off,
she looked in everary mirror and it was completely gone.
Will that be a skin walker? It sounded more like

(01:08:48):
a wind to go, Oh, that's pretty. That's another one.
There's another. I got several stories. I'd be curious to
what you think. Jack was camping in the woods and
he said, well, he had a couple of friends. They
heard strange noises outside their tent. They originally thought it
was perhaps maybe a bear, but they peeked out to

(01:09:08):
see a figure, a tall figure that was lurking in
the shadows, watching them with unnaturally bright eyes. They ignored it,
and Jack woke up in the middle of the night
to find what he believed was the skin walker standing
actually over him, and its inhuman face inches from his own.

(01:09:30):
He said, he was there was it was like sleep paralysis.
His other friends were completely knocked out because they were
in other tents, but he could not move. He had
sleep paralless episodes. But then, he said, when he came
out of the sleep paralyss episode, it was still there.
It did not go away until he screamed for his
friends to come in, and when they unzipped the thing,

(01:09:51):
it went away.

Speaker 3 (01:09:55):
That sounded that sounded more like a skinwalker.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
It's in seeing that these skin walkers, I mean, that
would be Yeah, that's a good question. You know doppel gangers.
A lot of people talk about doppelgangers. Do you think
that could be a form of a skin walker.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
I don't think a doppelganer is. I think doppelganger is
more or less more a spiritual, ghostly type of thing,
because I've had people kind of me, he said. Look,
I saw you such and such a places I haven't
been there. He said, that was you you know, here's
there's no denying. I've never been there, so I know
I've had a doppelganger out there that looks like me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
So. And then the one more story Alex. He said
he was driving through the desert and his car overheated,
and that will happen when you're in the desert. Uh.
And he was in the middle of nowhere and this,
but he said it was it was getting pretty late
at night, and he tried. He got out of the car,
got you know, the hood and checked the engine and
it was just overheating. So he was trying to get
some water. But as he was going to his trunk

(01:10:58):
to get water, he felt a press that was watching
him from the darkness that was just about maybe ten
feet away from his car. He looked up, he swears
he saw a figure. It was standing right next to
like a cactus. Its form was he said, it was
like shifting and it was like a black shadowy shift.

(01:11:21):
That's what he kept saying, and he knew that he
was being watched, he believed by a skin walker. He
said the eyes were a very bright he described it red,
and but he he it was like wavy. It's that's
the way he described these this black, shadowy figure and
he clearly saw the eyes and that bothered him. It's
bothered him for years. And he doesn't know what's what

(01:11:42):
that was.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
It probably was a skinwalker.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
These things, I'm really when you're talking about skinwalkers, these
are really evil, evil, malevolent beings that want to cause
a lot of harm, not only physically but intellectually.

Speaker 4 (01:12:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:01):
Well, like I said, James, unless you challenge it and
you can get away from it, that's a good thing,
you know, but don't try to actually not him. He
probably got in the car and drove up. You know.
He challenged that thing, which you don't really want to
challenge anything like that. Just get away from it as
far as you can.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Here's the question that I absolutely want to know from you.
Have you ever had a case where people used either
a wizerboard or whatever it might be to try to
connect with a skin walker or a wind to go.
I've had people do this with demons. I don't know
why they do it, But have you ever had a
case where someone used one of these devices to try
to connect with one of these these these creatures.

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
I haven't had a case like that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
You've never had that, No, never had, never had out.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
Demons are another thing, you know. I've had quite a
few cases like that. Yeah, and quite quite a few
accidental cases like that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
So it's interesting so that the demons you have, but
the skin walkers and the windogoes you have. And it
seems like the people who come across these skin walkers
are windogoes. It seems like the cases that you described,
they've come by them accidentally.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
Yeah. You know, a lot of people don't realize when
these things show up, especially a skin walker, they're usually
conjured by something like a ritual or something like that.
Now you said about a wigi board. I've never seen
a wigi board here, But that don't mean they can't
be conjured by other means.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Okay, Yeah, because if a winder goo is actually a spirit,
an evil spirit, who knows. But let's do one more
case and then I'll let you go. Well, do you
have any more cases that you can share that you
worked either with a skin walker or a wind togo,
and how did you remedy the situation?

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
That's about it, James. Like I said, I've had maybe
five or six cases, and usually and you know, they
they were, I wouldn't say minor. I was lucky that
I didn't actually had to go full throttle into this thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
Yeah, no question about it. Well, Willie, we thank you
very much for your willingness to jump on and chat
with this for you know, for this a little over
an hour and talk about your experience as a shaman,
as a Christian, as clergy. I mean, sixty years of
experience is a long, long, long time and you're always
very kind and share your experience. So we appreciate that. Willie,

(01:14:26):
thank you very much. Sure anytime, James, all right, you
have a great night, you too, all right, bye bye,
all right, everybody. That's our buddy, Willy Winn Walker Gibson.
We appreciate him very much. He always does a fantastic job.
And by the way, if you want to reach Willie,
if you want to email him, you can do so,

(01:14:46):
and let me give you his email address. It's a
very very easy to do. And I know some people
maybe have a different perspective on it, and that's okay,
but it's Crystal Chief fifty five at AOL dot co.
Crystal Chief fifty five at AOL dot com. Yep, he

(01:15:09):
still has AOL email God love him. But that's seriously,
when you have people who have had that experience like
Willie has had, it gives you a different perspective on
things and people need to understand something. Willy's been doing
this for sixty years, six zero and there is nothing

(01:15:31):
that Willy is trying to.

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
Do.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
I mean he does it for free. Now. He does
have two books out, so if you want to go
to Amazon you can do so. These are very good books.
They're Soul Warriors. You can just type in Willie win
Walker Gibson and pick up his books are really well.

(01:15:57):
He has one book right now on the Shaman wind Walker. Uh,
and that's a very good book. I actually have it.
It's called The Shaman wind Walker. He used to have
Soul Warriors, but I guess it's not on Amazon, but
you can just or you can just top type in
Willie win Walker Gibson on Amazon and you can pick

(01:16:20):
up his book, The Shaman win Walker. Good book talks
about his life, his experience, what he's experienced. He really
has experienced a lot, a lot. Oh yeah, the aol
A dress. Sure it is, let me grab it. Crystal
Chief fifty five. There it is on the screen for
those of you who are on social other social media platforms.

(01:16:42):
It's Crystal Chief fifty five at aol dot com. I have, yeah,
the dolls of the skin Walker. Yeah, oh you bought, Oh,
Judy and you bought The skin Walker. That's great. Yeah,
I own it. I read it. Uh, it's it's actually
a very good book. And again, this is what you know.

(01:17:04):
The trolls are gonna The trolls are gonna troll. They're
gonna say whatever they're going, by the way. I think.
By the way, I think for the trolls out there,
you know, I think we need to do this, don't we.
You know what I'm gonna do. Don't you you know
what I'm gonna do. I think we need to introduce
them to their very own troll song. So, for those

(01:17:26):
of you who are trolls, I would like to introduce
you to your very own troll song that our community
made for you because you're so desperate for attention. So
allow me, if you would, trolls, to play this beautiful

(01:17:48):
song just for you, since you need the attention. Trolls,
It's all about you. It's a love casting shadows. I

(01:18:15):
own this song. True. They're the shortest of all sit
in your chair. They're no cheer. Yep, sing along, Charles,

(01:18:56):
this is for you. It's all about love. Joke is
on you. True, Sorry, nothing to do sing along, trolls.

(01:19:41):
It's a great song. Come on, trolls. No candy for you,
that's right, see you trolls. That's a true statement. Yep. Yeah,

(01:20:26):
faded out of sight would be good.

Speaker 3 (01:20:33):
Mm hmmmmmmmm mmm.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
They don't like this. The trolls don't like it. I'm sorry.

Speaker 5 (01:20:51):
There we go, there we go, alright, but I'm alright
there and and folks, you can enjoy that beautiful, beautiful song.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
It's all my TikTok profile. You can download it, use
it and let it. That's right. The trolls are triggered
right now. They're triggered. They're triggered. They're having a difficult
time right now. We have to be we have to
be nice to them. But uh that's a yeah. No

(01:21:23):
bubblegum for you, no candy for you. But anyway, that's
that's all they do. That's all they do. They add nothing,
no value, no value whatsoever. I would think, by what
a sad life that would be. To live your whole
entire life and you add no value to anybody else's life,
including your own. That's sad, boy. We got a lot

(01:21:45):
of we lost on TikTok. There have been quite a
few people that just left. I just want to point
that out. There was there was quiet. There were quite
a few people that just left when I played that song.
So I think we uh, I think we hurt their
we hurt their feelings. Let's take a moment, hm, Let's
take a moment and show our sympathy for the job.

(01:22:09):
I can't do it. I can't do it. I'd be lying.
I can't do it. I can't do it. I'm not
gonna I'm not even I'm not even gonna pretend. I'm
not evenna pretend. All right, so yeah and yeah, or
this that's really all we hear. That's all we hear.
Or of course, you know as uh Jesse bought me

(01:22:29):
the uh, the the beautiful goat. Yeah, that's that's the best. See,
this is the greatest thing. So you just when the
trolls go on and on.

Speaker 4 (01:22:49):
Yeah, h poor baby, shh, that's your lullaby.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
It's past your bedtime. Nonetheless, this is how you do.
This is how you deal with trolls. My friend that's
how you deal with trolls, very very simple. You just
look at them and pat them on the head and say, okay,
now you got your attention, go to sleep. Let's past
your bedtime. All right, let's talk about some paranormal topics.

(01:23:22):
We got a lot to talk about today. Yeah, you
gotta enjoy it. You gotta enjoy it. I tell you what.
This is a lot this is that's right, that's right.
This is really interesting. Did you know mk ultra? Ooh,

(01:23:43):
this is a real thing. And here's what's scary about
mk ultra. This is by TK Randall. There were secret
experiments conducted in the sixties that actually used electrodes to
mind control animal for nefarious purposes. Yeah, this is actually real.

(01:24:07):
Sixty years ago, the CIA was involved in a secret
and controversial program known as mk Ultra, which, by the way,
we know they did this because these were classified documents,
and these documents are now unclass or some of them.
So what happened, Yeah, it was terrible. The CIA was

(01:24:29):
involved in a secret and controversial program known as mk Ultra,
which experimented with mind control techniques, often involving unwilling or
unknowing human participants. Now before this. However, researchers attempted various
mind control experiments using animals. The idea was to use

(01:24:53):
electrical impulses to stimulate the brains of the animals, which
included rats, dogs, monkeys, donkeys, guinea pigs, and birds. Some
animals were to be rigged with let's just say weapons,

(01:25:14):
terrible deadly toksins and other things, essentially acting as unalivers
that the enemy in this case it was the Soviet
Union would never see coming. Now think about this for
a second. Listen to what I just said. These animals

(01:25:36):
were used as labrats basically, and they had horrible weapons
that were attached to them for the city of Soviet Union,
including birds. Now, for example, a rat could be used
to poison someone, while larger animals could even be equipped

(01:25:58):
with explosives that would be remotely detonated when the animal
reached its objective. Now, according to declassified files, these are declassified.
The researchers did manage to control the animals using these methods,
although it doesn't look as though they were ever used
to unlive someone. Instead, the information learned from the research

(01:26:23):
was later applied to human mind control techniques. Before the
whole thing was hushed by the powers it be. It
wasn't until decades later that the full extent of what
the CIA had been up to during these years were
was fully exposed. That's frightening stuff. What makes this real?

(01:26:44):
Frightening folks, This is real. That is real. I wasn't
the Manchurian candidate. I think that was what it was called.
Oh who is that author that?

Speaker 4 (01:27:01):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:27:01):
I forgot his name. He's a very famous actor, great good,
very great, great actor, Denzel Washington. Denzel Washington. No, no,
it was Denzel Washington. So he played a soldier and
there was a Manchurian candidate, basically a senator's son that

(01:27:24):
they were pushing I think, either to run for president
or something of this nature. But I tell you what,
that's crazy stuff. That is crazy stuff. Oh well, thank
you there, man, and thank you very much, thank you
for being here. I appreciate that. Soon anyway, this is real.
This is a real thing, and it actually does. That's

(01:27:48):
a frightening thing. This is another This is a I've
never been to this place, but I've heard a lot
about it. And so let me tell you a little
bit about this. Some people say it's legit. Some people
say it's not. Well, the mk Ultra is real. Yeah,
that's a real thing. But now this was by Kiss
Dot FM ninety three point one. Is there really a

(01:28:12):
portal to Hell in El Paso? Well, there is a
cemetery I've never been there, called Concordia Cemetery. Is it
just old? They say it's ancient, established in eighteen fifty
six and home to over sixty thousand buried sould. This
historic landmark in central El Passo has been the focus

(01:28:35):
of ghost tours, graveyard investigations, and urban legends for decades.
If you've ever been there, let me know, guys. But
one rumor stands above the rest that somewhere on these
haunted grounds lies a literal gateway allegedly to Hell. If
you've ever been, it's called Concordia Cemetery. It's in El

(01:28:59):
pass Have you guys been there, anybody? Yeah, that's what
they say. Anyway, says that if you're willing to part
with twenty five bucks, you can go find it yourself.
Uh So where is l Passal's Hell's Gate and why

(01:29:21):
do people think it's haunted?

Speaker 3 (01:29:24):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
L Pascal's Al Apostle Passel del Norte Paranormal Society offers
regular ghost tours of the cemetery, and every October they
crank it up an otch with special haunted history tours.
The centerpiece of the Spooky trek well a site known
as Hell's Gate, the mysterious area near the old railroad tracks,
where the visitors claim to feel a strange pull. In

(01:29:48):
more scientific terms, it's a paranormal vortex. Now. Some say
it messes with your internal compass. Others say it's just
a weird breeze. And if that wasn't enough, some visitors
to have reporter hearing ghostly hoof beats and children laughing
in the dark, which, let's be honest, are probably the
two most terrifying sounds you could hear in a graveyard. Anyway,

(01:30:10):
Tour guides have claimed that they've seen shadows darting between
headstones and mysterious mists writing from the infant section of
the cemetery. Anyway, is it the paranormal activity or just
Alposso's dust playing tricks? Again, so there's paranormal evidence. Allegedly,
two brave ghost hunters once claimed to catch a full

(01:30:32):
on shadow person near a crib shaped grave marker. Another
photo taken near gun slinger John Selman's grave shows what
appears to be a pair of disembodied ghost legs just
hanging out. Even Reddit has a few choice stories from
local teens and amateur ghostbusters, describing everything from phantom footsteps
to sudden shifts in temperature and no, not the kind

(01:30:56):
you blame on. West Texas Weather says basically, if you've
got a shaky camera and enough belief, Concordia is your
horror movie set waiting to happen. Now, there are allegedly
satanic rituals, because it's not proper to hunt at a
site without a little satanic panic. Some locals believe that

(01:31:18):
the cemetery has been used for ritual purposes. Reports of candles,
strange symbols, late night offerings have been added fuel to
the fire. There's no evidence anything truly senator has ever happened,
so just keep that in mind. Don't know. And so
if you want to go there, you can type in Concordia. Yeah,
I've been to Sis Saint Louis Cemetery, So it's Concordia

(01:31:42):
Cemetery in El Paso, Texas. Now I would say this,
I don't know anything about this place. But I have
talked often about the Gates of Hell Cemetery in Kentucky,
which I'm the one who named it the Gates of
Hell Cemetery. Twenty five five years ago, nobody in the
paranormal community knew the Gates of Hell even existed. And

(01:32:07):
the families contact the families well the area, people who
had families buried. It's an old, abandoned cemetery. It's no
longer used anymore. And families asked me of loved ones
who are buried there to go because they absolutely know
that people are doing nefarious things. And so they asked
me to bless it and we said sure, and they said,
we also want to see if there's any type of documentation,

(01:32:28):
any type of weird things going on there. So we
did this, and all hell broke loose in that cemetery.
I mean, it was that was one place that I
will not go there at night at all. It is
a different world, It is a totally different world. No
one even knew that cemetery existed. Twenty five years ago,

(01:32:53):
we went public on the Discovery Channel National Geographic. I
was on the Travel Channel talking about this thing. This
place is truly sinister. Oh, yeah, I mean we got
growls there. I've talked about this on the documentary. I

(01:33:14):
don't know what I saw that night in that tree.
It bothers me to this day because I can't define it. No, Max,
you go to that place, you're asking for trouble. It
really it's it's I think it's a warning, Jen, But
here's so here's here's what happened. And by the way,
I have a documentary. You can go to my Tube

(01:33:39):
to the U. I have to say that because otherwise
you get in trouble. But if you go to Bishop
Jameslong dot com and you scroll down to where it
says official social media links and you see with the
Tube to the U the documentary, I don't know what
that was. So we were there one time, me and
three other people. Bishop David Price was with me as well,

(01:34:01):
and it was at midnight. We were by the Witch's Tree.
So there's one way in and one way out. It's
an old beaten down path and there's like a horseshoe
fence around the it's not a huge cemetery, and we
were backed by what they called the Witch's Tree at
the very back. And it was around midnight. It was
in the middle of summer, and the crickets were going

(01:34:24):
and then the wind start blowing and the trees started
swaying back and forth, but we felt no wind where
we were, and the crickets stopped. It became I mean,
it was silent. It was silent, and then we began
seeing shadow people darting from behind tree to tree. There's
a lot of trees there, and at first we thought

(01:34:46):
it was the locals trying to scare us, because it
started out like four or five or whatever. Then it
got to ten, then twenty, and then fifty, and they
were everywhere. I mean they were darting back and forth
behind trees, and what what it was is we were like,
this is the tree here. It started here, and then
it was like they were moving this light, like this
is the entrance, and they were clearly they were It

(01:35:08):
seemed like they were going to close us off. That's
what they were doing, because they started from back here
and the shadow people just kept going back and forth.
So we said it's time to go, because we were
not prepared to perform the minor right of exorcism there.
We were just wanted to document. So we walked out
to the front and again, it's a one way path in,
one way out and there's a tree right there in
the front. So there's a little park where you can park,

(01:35:31):
like a turnabout. And the car was parked there and
we were our back were was against the cemetery. We
were talking about what we just experienced. One of the
investigators had a flashlight, and this was in the days
where it was the battery operated flashlight, the big batteries,
the D batteries or C batteries. And we heard a

(01:35:52):
rattle and we realized it was his flashlight, and we
looked and he was looking towards the cemetery. He was shaking.
He was doing this, I mean his arms were shaking.
We turned around to see what he was looking at.
And in the very entrance of this cemetery is a tree.
It's not a huge tree, but it's a pretty good size.

(01:36:13):
It was a full moon right behind it, so we
could clearly see everything. We saw this creature. Every one
of us saw it. It was about eight to ten
feet tall. To me, it looked like a large human bat.
That's the only way I can describe it. The wings
were spread out really, I mean from edge to edge

(01:36:34):
of the tree. It was so clear. I mean, he
had the light flying right on this thing. We saw
the claws, we couldn't even see the feet, and it
made no noise. It had a long, elongated torso very muscular.
It looked like a bat a red glowing eyes looking

(01:36:54):
right at us. Yep, I don't know what it is.
I don't know. I don't know. It was different than
a demonic because when I'm in the presence of a demon,
I know because I've done. I've performed thirty three exorcisms.
I blessed thousands of homes in twenty five years, so

(01:37:15):
I know what a demonic presence feels like one hundred percent.
This was different. This felt like it was an actual creature.
But it made no noise. But we all knew that
if we stepped an inch closer we were gonna get in,
we were gonna be attacked. I don't know what it was.

(01:37:38):
I can't define it, and that drives me crazy because
I can't define it. No again, it didn't feel like
a demon. It felt to me more like a cryptid,
like a physical creature, a cryptid. That's what it felt
like to me. It was like, it wasn't a demonic
feel to it, you know the difference between a demonic

(01:38:00):
feel and that that was a demonic feel vampire. I
don't know. But the eyes were fluorescent looking right at us. Yes, uh,
I believe. I believe in ghosts absolutely. So I don't
know what it was. But it was Encryptid, There's no

(01:38:25):
question about that, no question. And perhaps it was moth man.
I what bothers me is that I can't define it.
And so when I came home, I got my little
dog out, Kylie, you know she at that time she
needed to go, you know, do her business outside. So
I took her outside in the front and outside there's
a street and there's a big fill right in front
of my house. And so I took Kylie out there.

(01:38:49):
She was doing it, you know, doing her business, and
it felt I heard this growl. Now I've heard growls before,
thank you, she and I've heard growls before. This growl
was very different. It felt like it came from not
it was demonic. It felt like it was again from
some type of creature. It was so deep and powerful.

(01:39:11):
I've said this before. It felt like I put a
speaker on the on my back and someone turned the
base up. And when it growled. I could feel the
growl in the chambers of my chest. I have never
experienced that in my entire life. Kylie stopped she she
heard I grab Kylie, Sae, you're done, because I don't

(01:39:32):
know what that was. I don't know what that. I
don't know. I would love to know what I would No,
I didn't smell it, no sulfur. We didn't smell any
type of We didn't when we saw the thing. We didn't.
There was no smell to it. There was nothing. But again,
we knew that if we walked a stage, if you

(01:39:54):
can go on, I have a documentary. It's on tube
to the you you can watch it. I don't know.
I don't know. I think that for me, when I
can't define something that drives me crazy, maybe I just
need to just let it go and admit to the
fact that it's just simple. You know it. It could
be mothman. I don't know. So well. It didn't. As

(01:40:19):
far as sleeping that night, it wasn't. It wasn't so
much scary as it was. I couldn't figure it out.
When I can't figure something out that bothered, my brain
goes in overload because I want to I want to
be able to define it and explain it. I can't.
I can't define what that was. Oh I could see well,

(01:40:42):
I could see the eyes. We could all see the eyes,
every single No, we didn't know. We didn't have a
video on that night. All three Bishop David Price was
there with us. There were four people and we all
and we all saw. We all saw it, and we
we were we were like, okay, get in the car now,
don't go any every one of us knew if you

(01:41:03):
stepped foot closer, that was it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:06):
That was it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:07):
And the cemetery, so yeah, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, that's
another one, Jack, thanks for reminding me. So I went
there one time with my buddy Steve O. We went
to the seminary together and we decided to go to
the cemetery, Gates and Hill Cemetery to do an investigation.

(01:41:28):
And we were talking. We were on the Expressway and
I was on sixty five seventy miles per hours. That
seventy miles was the speed limit, and we were going
down the road. We were talking about what we experienced
and it was late and as I was Steve said
something and I turned right next to him and I
was and answering something. He was looking at me, and

(01:41:48):
we both we had that look because we both saw
in our peripheral vision we at a little boy. He
looked like he was like in the eighteen nineties clothing,
but he was just a little It was a little boy.
And he had his arm on the arm rest and
just doing like this and just listening to the conversation.
And I obviously that startled me because I wasn't expecting

(01:42:09):
a child to be in the back seat. And we
almost crashed into the side of the expressway, and that
an expressway at that time had all like brick wall
or rock I guess I should say, so I slammed
on the emergency you know, emergency lane, and we both
saw this thing. So this place, I tell you, guys,

(01:42:32):
if you've ever seen the movie Silent Hill, if you've
ever seen the movie Silent or play the game Silent Hill,
that's the gates of Hell cemetery. I've been scratched before.
Von during the day, it's one place you can During

(01:42:55):
the day, you can tolerate it, but you know that
there's something not there. I'm sorry. You know that there's
something lurking. But at night, no, at night, you don't
you go there at night. You are absolutely one hundred
percent you're going to experience something and you should stay
away from that place. I will not go there at night.

(01:43:18):
I won't unless a family really wants me to go back.
It's a bad place. So I got scratched once when
I was at the Bobby Mackie's episode on Ghost of
a Ventures. I did three episodes with them at Bobby Mackie's.
Now the Gates of Hill Cemetery makes Bobby Mackie's looks
like well, Disney World. There's no comparison. There's no comparison

(01:43:41):
between the two. Oh no, I didn't go by myself.
I would never go there by myself ever. So then
the kid off the bike, Yeah, I don't know. I
knew Lorraine. I did not know ed. Lorraine did not
like Annabel. She didn't want to be around Annabel. I

(01:44:05):
And by the way, I will be going. Let me
let you everybody know. I will be going to the
Queen Mary, one of the most haunted locations in the world.
I will be going there this September. I'm going to
be putting on creating some documentaries. Judiano's will be serving
as the executive producer there, so I'm going to be

(01:44:27):
going there in September. I will actually be doing a
live show on the Queen Mary, and then I will
also in October, I'm going to be speaking at Scarefest.
It's in Lexington, Kentucky, and I will be with Annabel.

(01:44:48):
I will see Annabel and I will go live. It
will be probably only on TikTok because I have my phone,
I can't run it on everybody else, but it will
be at the scare Fest anyway, comment rule wise on
what Yeah, you have to protect yourself absolutely, Yeah, that's

(01:45:09):
a September is September is going to be the Queen Mary,
and I will be doing a live show on the
Queen Mary for everybody. I will be on the ship
for all social media platforms. Yeah, sirin is a serious thing.
I am staying the Night Phoenix at the Queen Mary
and I'm actually staying at the Most Haunted Room one

(01:45:31):
on the Queen Mary. So I will be there doing
a show. That will be in September. It'll be in
the middle of September. I'll let you guys know about that.
And October is Scarefest, where I will be at Annabel
Annabel by the way, that's in Los Angeles. Ancient words.
Annabel by the way, friends, Annabel never went missing. That
was a nod. That was ridiculous. It was a lie.

(01:45:51):
It was a stupid, crazy story that people made up
to get likes and clicks. Annabell the doll never went missing. Never.
I was just I was with, No, it's not in
San Francisco, it's in I have some friends actually there.
It's in's in Los Angeles. I believe it's in that area.

(01:46:14):
So but anyway, No, she's never been. So I have
been a Bachelor's Grove, yes, I have. Yeah, and I
actually saw a full body apparition at Bachel's Grove cemetery.
In matter of fact, that's where I study. I study
at Loyola University in Chicago, So I went there several times.
I'll thank you this, she know. Okay. The idea, here's

(01:46:36):
the theory about why don't you burn the items. You
don't burn the items because the theory is that once
you do that, you can release that energy. You want
to buying that energy to that particular object in the
name of Christ, so that it can no longer attack
or hurt other people. I have a massive collection of
items that I have collected in twenty five years as

(01:46:58):
an exorcist, where people, you know, bring these terrible things
in their homes and then all hell breaks loose. As
a matter of fact, it was just what recently, I
did a presentation on that right here, and I show
several items, and I do this. The reason is I
collect these things is because when I go around and

(01:47:19):
I teach about them, when you see it, then it
becomes real. It is tangible. You can see it. It
is there. People get the point. Stay away from the
I have a storage facility. Stay away from these items.
Stop collecting these items that are allegedly have a demonic attachment.

(01:47:41):
There is nothing good that comes with us. Friends, listen
to me carefully. I have not no you do not
know if you go on like let's say, auction sites
that allegedly has items that have demonic attachments, that you
don't know what you're getting. You have no idea. You
don't know what that person did to that item prior

(01:48:03):
to you buying it. I have had cases where people
did purchase these items because they wanted a haunted item
and they found out well, actually one person actually purposely
thinking they actually purposely bought it. When a voodoo priests
said that they purposely put a demonic to attach an
item and they bought it. People bought it. Why would

(01:48:25):
they do this? But people are buying this on social media,
and you know there's a there's stories about well, there's
a you know, horrible things happen and people are buying
these things up. You have no idea the history of
these items. None. And then and then then they take
them to their home and then terrible things happen and

(01:48:47):
then they call me and they want me to fix it. Well,
I can't necessarily get to everybody's home, so no, I'm
not done, genie. So you just got to stay away
from that. Stay away from these items. They're no good

(01:49:07):
and people keep buying them. Just stop. Just leave them alone.
Leave them alone. That's the best way. That's the best advice.
Leave them alone. Nothing good will come from them. Okay,
for those of you who are listening to this on podcast,
I'm gonna say good night to you guys.