KCAA: The Scene with Doreen (Tue, 13 Feb, 2024)

KCAA: The Scene with Doreen on Tue, 13 Feb, 2024

Episode Transcript

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KCAA Radio ten fifty Am. KCAAis your CNBC News affiliate. We're the
station that gets down to business.NBC News on KCAA LOWLA sponsored by Teamsters

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Local nineteen thirty two, protecting thefuture of working Families Teamsters nineteen thirty two
dot org. Hey America, what'sgoing on? Welcome to the Scene with

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Doreen and I am your Queen ofthe Scene, Dorian Taylor, setting the
scene each and every week to helpyou guys find out what's happening in TV,
movies, music, sports, thearts, and everything in between.
We are so proud to be syndicatedon the station's coast to coast and originating
right here in the City of BrotherlyLove on Philadelphia's number one talk radio station,
Talk A sixty WWDB. And youcan get insider access and go behind

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the scene on our show's official website, The Scene with Doreen dot com.
And I want to give a bigscene Welcome to my producer, Matt Minarik,
who pushes all my buttons in agood way. Hey Matt, what's
going on? Oh? Thank you? Hey? How you doing? What's
going on with you? What's goingon with you? I guess you asked
first much. I mean, sameold stuff. Just looking forward to all

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these guests. I always look forwardto, uh, every time you email
me when the scheduled guests are andwho they are. It's always really exciting
to see who you get. Andthen I'm like, it's always a lot
of people that are black from thepast, people that I've heard before,
and it's like really awesome, youknow, to hear stories about some of
these people. I love it,like learning how the sauce is made.

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Sometimes people don't want to talk abouthow things actually progress, and they just
want to talk about success, succeexyou know, success success, and they
don't want to always just let's talkabout how did you get there, how
did you start? What did youhave to go through? I love I
think that's the most interesting thing aboutlearning about some of these musical artists,
actors, actresses and whatnot. Yeah, it's just how they started. Yeah,

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Now, you know, when youwere young and everything, did you
have a strong female in your lifethat really just made a difference. Did
you have like a role model thatwas just a strong kind of woman.
It was your mom or sister.I would have to say my mom and
my grandmother, my mom's well actuallyboth of my grandmothers, I mean,
because they raised my grandmother on mymom's side, she raised five children.

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The youngest one had down syndrome.They wanted to when she was born,
my aunt Claire, that is,they suggested that they put her in a
home and all that stuff, andthey're like, hell, know, we're
raising her good. And she's stillshe's fifty five years old today. Wow
these days or now, but yeah, it's she's one of the strongest people

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I've ever met. And learn fromher, it's amazing. And then my
grandmother on my father's side, shehas since passed, but yeah, I
mean, just it's just amazing whatyou learn about and especially when they don't
really you don't they don't really tellyou about their life. You find out
through other people. Isn't an amazingsometimes how modest and humble some of these

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things And are you kidding me?They did that? Yes? And you
learn and you start to peel backsome of the layers and realize that so
many important things happen, like especiallywith our guests today, I kind of
wanted to talk about that because alot of things happened behind the scenes that
people aren't even aware of, Andwhat about you me? I my mother

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very very strong role models. Imean, growing up very very much.
There were times where I would lookat her and I think, how do
you you know, going through someof the amazing things that we had to
go through, and how did younot give up? How did you kind
of always find food to put onthe table? How did you always find
a way to have us warm dressed? And we never really wanted for anything,
And I always don't how they tellboth of my parents, but especially

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my mother, who kind of heldit all together. And I'm a lot
like my mother, and the thingsyes, big, yes, and we
didn't have a lot, but tome, it was everything and that was
very important. And I live thatlife now where I kind of always feel
that I'm very thankful for every singlelittle thing I have and that's that's all
I need. Henri. Yeah,So she taught that to me, and

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it's just kind of incredible that I'vealso learned a lot about our guests today,
because I really want to say thatThroughout the history of music, feminism
has always been a complex and oftencontroversial topic. For decades, female rock
musicians have been asked to bend topressures, just to come to over sexualization
of their images, or just forcedto endure sexism discrimination that their male counterparts

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have really never had to face.They're often taken out of the equation of
their own messaging, imagery, andeven music. Today in twenty twenty four,
with all of the significant progress we'vemade, women are still not treated
equally today. On the scene withJarina, I have the distinct pleasure of
welcoming Catherine Yeski Taylor to the show. Starting out as a rock critic in
Atlanta in the nineties, she evolvedin the industry as a premier journalist,

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conducting several hundred interviews and contributing regularlyto Billboard, Spin, American Songwriter,
and many more. Her newest projectlands her in the author spotlight with She's
a Badass. Women in Rock ShapingFeminism, an incredible look into the lives
and careers of twenty significant women inrock who have all experienced sexism and helped

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advance and redefine the female image inmusic. Artists like Anne Wilson of Heart,
Suzanne Vega, Suzi Quattro, Exineof Ex, Paula Cole orientthe Gina
Shock of the Gogos and Joan Osborne. Take a little listen to some of
these badasses in action. My nameis Luca. I live on the second

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floor. I live upstairs from you. Yes, I think you've seen it.
No one, gadget no take cowboysof what if God was one of

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just a slob by Goles? Justtoday? What a Vegas Way. Oh,

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we don't just have the beat todaylike the go Gos. We have
the incredible author of the new booktitled She's a Badass, Catherine Yeskey tailor
on the show today and is avery special bonus. We also have chapter
eight of She's a Badass, themulti platinum, eight time Grammy nominated singer
songwriter Joan Osborne. Joan is oneof the twenty significant women in rock highlighted
in Catherine's book that helped promote feminismthrough her music, her activism, and

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by just being a living example.Welcome Catherine the scene with Jarena. I'm
so happy you're both here with metoday. What's going on? Hey,
it's very great to be here.Thank you so much for having me.
Oh, my pleasure. Thank you. It's a true honor. Oh,
thank you. Now, first ofall, let me thank you for both
being so brave and forthright with yourstories to really help bring a much needed

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dialogue to this topic. It's honestlystill not discussed as much as it should
be, even with all the progresswe have made over the years. Catherine,
you've interviewed hundreds of musicians over theyears, and somehow for the book
She's a Badass, you were ableto whittle it down to these amazing twenty
female rock stars. How did youend up selecting the musicians that you did
for the book? Well, itwas hard. There's so many good ones.

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Oh yes, She's from Oh yeah. But the first thing I did
was I thought about interviews I've donealready, women who were articulate, who
seem to really be engaged with theinterview, who had really interesting things to
say. So then I went tothose women first and just said, hey,
we've talked before, remember me,here's the article. I want to

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do that again, only way morein depth, and to talk about feminism
specifically as kind of a through linewith your story. And that's how I
got about two thirds of the people. And then from there I got some
people who I've never interviewed before butalways wanted to such as Eccine, and

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so it just kind of fell togetherin a really great way. Actually was
pretty fast, that part was fast. Yeah, what took you The longest
part about writing the book? Editing? Yeah, editing the right, getting
the interviews, doing the interviews.Writing it actually didn't take too long.
It was all about nine months altogether, like a baby like total, like

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it was your child. And thenI turned in the book. And yes,
there were several months of you know, having to work with copy editors
making sure there were no typos andthings like that. That was lengthy and
tedious. But yes, that wasthe longest part. Now did someone not
end up participating in the book thatyou really really wanted? Though? I

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asked and I asked and I askedand I asked for Tracy Chapman. Oh
and especially with the Grammy's just takingplace. Wow, yeah, that would
have been well this is before likeher song, you know, the cover
of her song, And I justasked her manager over and over and over
again, and they kept just saying, well, we'll get back to you
and we're interested. And then ata certain point I had to move on.

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Yeah, oh yes, I figuredthere was someone there was had to
be like your dream one that youwanted there. Well, never say never,
you will have maybe a second volumeof this book, and maybe yes,
with the success is having. Itruly believe this guy's the limit.
Joan. When Catherine came to youabout this book idea of hers, what
made you want to participate and shareyour story? Well, I I really

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valued the perspective that she was bringingto it, which was, you know,
talking about the role of women inmusic in popular culture and doing that
in a very in depth way.I mean, it seems like the whole
of women in rock story, youknow, it seems to resurface time and
time again over the years as beingsomething that people want to check in with

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or their interest in, or gee, how do these women do it?
And and you know, that cool, but it seems like what I've seen
of that is fairly superficial, Whereasyou know, this book seemed like it
was going to do a deeper diveand I appreciated that definitely. Catherine,
A lot of times when we thinkof the term feminism, we think of

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Glorious Sneinem, you know, obviouslybrought widespread attention to the feminist movement in
the sixties and seventies. But atthe same time, a lot of people
don't know there was a movement inthe arts, especially rock music. What
do you think was the tipping pointor watershed moment that led to female rock
stars finally feeling empowered enough to takecontrol of their own careers rather than just
being the manufactured pop star thing thatthe industry was really known for at the

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time. Well, I just thinkthe industry just finally evolved about twenty years
after it began. I mean,if you think about when Elvis really kind
of broke through with rock and roll, and then I talk in my book
about how Susi Quatra was the firstfemale rock star who wrote her own songs,

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fronted her own band, played herown instrument and that was the early
seventies. So it really took abouttwenty years, and I think it was
just a matter of kind of shippingaway at it. I mean in the
sixties, there was you know,Janis Joplin, there was you know,
a gray slick of Jefferson Airplane.It just took some time for people to
get used to women, you know, being on stage and being in the

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forefront at all, and then itjust had to evolve a little more to
get to the point where people wouldaccept women in a leadership role really taking
charge. And Susie in her chapterreally talks about how hard that was and
the pushback she got for it.Always is the person wants to go first,
the one who really just has totake that step, and it's who

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is that going to be? Andyes, you were lucky enough to get
twenty of them that actually put theirreputation or there anything on the line for
this to really say hey, enoughand off and I want to make a
difference in this. And it's amazinghow many women did what they did to
really kind of blaze the trail youbrought up, Gloria Steineman. When I
first announced this book on my socialmedia, I got some comments from men

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saying I thought all this was coveredalready, didn't Gloria Steinhum cover all this
already? And it just made mereally sure that I was on the right
track. Yes, there's so muchmore than that. I mean, this
proves that we need a book likethis. Isn't it funny that all the
advances, like I said in thebeginning, you know, even in the
year twenty two, twenty four,we're still not there And there's still will

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always be a group, and Imean that's that's this human nature. There
will always be a group. Butit's it's sad that there's still a large
kind of group that you would thinkand it's not. I know, we
always do the bad thing on men. You know that they're the ones doing
it, but it's not always men. Sometimes women are doing it to other
women as well and holding them backin ways. I mean, did you
find that when you were doing interviewsa lot that it was sometimes also women

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maybe in the media or women youknow other like producers or someone that was
in a higher position that were sometimesholding other women back for whatever reason.
Yeah, that did come up acouple of times. The one he went
into it most significantly in our chapterwas Catherine Popper, who is a bass
player who's played with Gaslight Anthem andJack White and Jesse Mellen, just a

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bunch of people, and so she'shad to be really adaptable switching from band
to band like that. It's areally unique perspective compared to the other women
in the book, wh kind ofhave their own thing that they stick with
and and she talks about that howshe's encountered sometimes the people that really blocked
her are other women who had becomesuccessful who then were really hard on her.

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Yes, I've always kind of madea joke about that. I'm interested,
No, go ahead, no,please don't and what Yeah, I'm
interested in what you think about whetheryou feel like maybe those women who were
not accepting her were doing that becausethey sort of felt territorial over this sort
of hard won place that they hadachieved, or do you feel like it's

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it's just a small part of youknow, just being in a culture where
you know, the male you know, part of the culture is seen as
oh, this is the set point, this is normal, and anything outside
that is somehow different or other anduh, and even women internal that themselves

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and identify with this male aspect ofculture and might feel threatened by, you
know, a woman coming out andsaying no, I want to talk about
female experience. And I think alot of us can recognize this moment where
you know, someone comes up witha perspective and you know, like you
saw with these men who are respondingto your social media posts, there's a

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lot of ways to sort of dismissthat as oh, that's old news or
oh that's not interesting. Anymore,or oh, why do you have to
make it all about gender? AndI think because if you're coming from this
place where the male is the normal, than anything outside of that feels sort
of threatening. So I wonder,Catherine, if you if you have a
notion about what that person that thebass player encountered was where she was coming

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from, if you have any ideaabout that. Well, she said that
she thought it was because these womenhad encountered such difficulties as they were climbing
the latter that they just internalize thatand then became the oppressors, which is
a really interesting theory. Yeah,I don't know. I mean, I

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don't know if that's right or ifit's one of the other things that you
said, But I think it's aninteresting thought. You know, maybe that
does happen. Maybe women are evensubconsciously a little harder on each other than
we would be with a man inthe same position. It's kind of ironic
that if that's the case. Yeah, No, I think they're all valid

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points. I think it might bea combination. I don't realize maybe it's
not one or the other. Itmight just be a little of all,
And it might even just be thatthey feel they've earned that spot and you
now need to earn it even morebecause they had to do what they had
to do. Now you've got todo that to get to that point.
I've noticed maybe some women, evenlike in my position and things, where
they are a little harder on me, and they do judge you a little

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harsher just because they say, well, I did it, and now you
know, what are you going todo to up that bar. So it's
a lot of interesting thought, andyou know, we could speculate about it
forever, because I don't know ifwe'll ever really know. There's so many
facets to all of this. ButI do want to take a short little
break and then I want to comeback and I want to talk about other

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areas of the music industry. It'snot just performers also that are having these
issues and what we can do tofix that, but also you know,
just your opinions of where things aregoing, and just talk a little bit
about your own experiences, Joan,you know how you experience this. So
I want to take a little bitof a break, but we will be
right back with Catherine Eskey Taylor andof course Joan Osborne right after this.
Looking to get your brand to millionsof people without wasting money on platforms that

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don't deliver your message to the rightcustomers, Well, worry no more.
Hi, I'm Doreen Taylor, andI'm so proud to announce that The Scene
with Doreen is now syndicated across thegood Old USA. My show is one
of the fastest dry ue new radioshows in the country and a great way
to reach a large audience and deliveryour message to potential customers nationwide. People

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hate commercials, but now they don'thave to because we create ads that are
as great as your business. Becomepart of this incredible journey with us and
let us make your business the celebrityon the Scene with Doreen. Join the
Scene with Dorian family, visit usat the Scenewithdoreen dot com, or call
us at eight five six six twofive two three seven five. That's eight

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five six six two five two threeseven five. But apart from performers,
women don't get much recognition in themusic industry because they're barely even represented in
music production. Women make up lessthan five percent of producers and engineers,
meaning almost every song you hear isproduced by men. Jesus, this is
all really bleak you guys. It'sreally easy to feel undermined, and maybe

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we have to pay a higher pricethan our male counterparts. But we're we're
doing the and then the next generationmay not have to as much. We
just need to focus on the positive. Just figure out who we are as
artists, and just figure out whatyour success is and just go for it.
That's it. Don't be afraid.Just go. Yes, we're back
to the scene with Dorain. I'myour host, Doreene Taylor, and I'm
chatting with two independent voices in themusic industry, Catherine Yesky Taylor, veteran

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music journalist and author of the newbook She's a Badass Women in Rock,
Shaping Feminism, and multi platinum sellingsinger songwriter Joan Osborne. The clip we
just played out of the break wasan exclusive interview on HBO talking about not
just the female performer inequality, butnow there's this huge discrepancy between the female
and male producer. Why do youfeel either one of you can answer this,

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but why do you feel that theproduction side of music hasn't caught up
to the performing side yet? Well, I mean I would say that it's
hard sometimes for people to accept womenin this role of authority that a producer
has, and or a band oran artist. Then going into the studio,

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that's a very vulnerable place to beand maybe because of you know,
we live in a patriarch even tolook at a man as someone who maybe
you trust a little bit more.I personally have done some producing. I've
produced a couple of records for thisamazing group called the Holmes Brothers. But
really I think I was asked todo that just because I knew them so

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well and had sort of come upon this scene with them, and they
knew me very well to trust me. But I wasn't just getting called out
of the blue by other random peopleto do any producing. Yes, I
mean the statistics. I'm sure thiswas several years ago that this clip was
taken from, but I don't thinkit's really advanced much since. I mean,

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it's probably a little better now andyou're starting to see things, but
behind the scenes still, really Iagree with you, Joan. I really
think that it is in the authoritykind of position, especially in a very
male dominated side of the industry,and it's always been and I'm sure you
know we've all encountered sometimes the peoplebehind the scenes, it's usually majority mail.
So yeah, I agree that wasa very good observation. I think

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that's a good answer for that,Catherine, Do you have any insight on
that. Yeah, I would agreewith that, And I would like to
point out that Susan Rogers wrote theafterword to this book. Susan Rogers was
the recording engineer for the in houserecording engineer for Prince when he was recording
Purple Rain and Sign of the Times, two of his biggest albums, and

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that really speaks to what a forwardthinking artist he was, because not too
many other artists were doing things likehiring female in house engineers, and so
Susan talks about her experience in thatand about how he helped her kind of
find a way to balance being awoman in such a male dominated industry.

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So she talks in her afterward abouthow it is still such a male dominated
industry that aspects for sure. Yeah, and I think I also think,
you know, where do producers comefrom? How do they learn to do
what they do? Many of themstart as recationeers, and they started out
working in recording studios, and youknow Zad Today there is still a huge

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gender imbounds in recording studios and inthe places where someone can learn how to
become a producer. It's almost exclusivelymale. And that does change a little
bit, and it have changing alittle bit, but it's certainly not at
a fifty to fifty level or anywherenear that. Yeah, no, you're
right, you're right. I'm notsure how if that pendulum will swing.

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I mean it's going, It's avery slow swing, but hopefully it will.
And honestly, I was very positivelyreinforced though, especially preparing for this
and learning watching the Grammys This yearand twenty twenty three was clearly the year
of the woman in music. Imean, women dominated this year's Grammy Awards.
Two female artists broke records, dominatingthe touring landscape. I mean,

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we all know Taylor Swift's first billiondollar tour, Beyonce's Renaissance Tour came in
its second place with an impressive fivehundred and seventy nine million. What do
you think that's these two artists apartfrom all the others in the playing field,
And do you think this is anew trend of female performers dominating the
industry or is this just kind ofthings balancing out. I actually wouldn't know

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why those particular artists have risen,because I in my career I've seen so
many artists that I think are sodeservings whatever reason, they may reach a
certain plateau and can't get any higher. And it's frustrating me as a journalist
because I will champion certain people asmuch as I can, you write about
them as much as I can,and just can't seem to make a difference

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in that way. I think everybodywho's been in this industry has seen that
happen, where you think, well, this one person is really successful,
and that's great, they're talented.But I know this other person who's just
as talented. Why aren't they aspopular? It's a mystery, it really
is. It is it is.I mean that's probably. I mean,
if we really dissected each performer,I'm sure we could find some little common

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thread between some of the ones thatsucceed and some of the ones that don't
ever really go beyond a certain level. I agree a billion percent with you.
I've said, I've had conversations atdinner parties about this I've talked to
my friends about this. There aretimes where I'd be like, I'm in
a club and I'm watching someone thatthey're incredible, just an incredible person,
performer all around, and yet youdon't ever hear from them again, and

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you're like, what happened, Whathappened from that moment to there? What
was it that they needed that theyjust didn't maybe get? And you know,
I mean that's like a totally differenttopic, and we could always talk
about that, but it's always fascinatingto me as well, like what is
it that didn't propel that person withsomeone else, like, you know,
Taylor Swift or Beyonce. I don'tknow. I don't know either if it
helps, you know, in mybook, I noticed there's a lot that
go ahead Joan, Yeah, goahead Jones. Oh no, Well,

(25:52):
I was I was just gonna saynot to irrock you, but I was
going to say that there's so muchmore than just making music that goes into
being a success of the music business. I mean, if you look at
someone like at Taylor Swift, sheseemed to have her finger on the pulse
of how to use social media veryvery early in her career. She's obviously

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got a tea people around her andhas had that since she was very young.
She's start very young. She's incrediblytalented, she's incredibly driven. You
know, you don't get to bein a place that she is without working
very very hard in being very verydriven. And you could certainly say the
same about Beyonce is starting very youngand just being really single minded and working
really hard. And certainly there areother artists who have been just single minded,

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but you know, maybe they didn'thave the right team around them more,
you know, maybe something their personallife was standing in the way or
whatever it was. But it seemslike, you know, these mega megastars,
you know, there's a lot morethat goes into that than just they
make music. Oh, it's abusiness acumen, but for sure they all

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have a business mind that I've alwaystold that to people. Music is one
thing, but it's a small actually, it's a very small part of what
musicians do. It's more about theself promotion. It's about knowing how to
read a contract, it's knowing abouthow to do all these things that people
maybe don't realize that it goes intothe formula to be a successful performer and
also I just want to remind anyonelistening that success isn't determined on the amount

(27:25):
of money that you make on ina tour. That's wonderful to some people,
and of course you want to dothat, but also if you know,
there are a lot of performers whoout there who do make a living
and they're very, very happy.They're never going to be, you know,
a Taylor Swift, but they're completein their lives because they've really just
found music and that they can dothat, and they can support themselves or
even not support themselves. They justare happy making music. So that's success

(27:47):
in another you know, sometimes moreof a success in my opinion, but
that's just my opinion. But I'lltell you it seems like a very far
cry from just in the nineties whenwomen musicians were told that they couldn't be
played on the radi because there weretoo many female artists on the air at
the time. I mean, isthat true? And what changed? I
heard that story over and over againas I did these interviews, and I

(28:11):
put it in the book only acouple of times because I didn't want it
to get repetitive. But that issomething that came up again and again that
the women that I interviewed were told, we can't play your songs on the
radio right now because we've already hitthe quota of female artists, or there
were certain DJs who just wouldn't playwomen at all. Wow, And there

(28:34):
really wasn't any fighting it. TanyaDonnelly, who was in three very important
bands in the nineties, throwing musesthe readers and Belly, arguably one of
the most influential and popular artists ofthe day, ran into this and tried
to fight it and got absolutely nowhere. So you know, there's a certain

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point where, you know, whatdo you do when you run into a
brick wall? Essentially, So I'mglad that things are getting better on that
front, at least, because nowwhen you listen to the radio, you
do hear a lot more female artiststhan you used to. Yeah, well,
in pop music, definitely, that'sthat's the case. I think in
country music you still have these kindof sort of gettoization of female artists,

(29:25):
and I think you do have thesequotas in country music stations, commercial country
music stations anyway, where they're like, okay, we can play one or
two records from women per hour,but that's it. Yeah, I do.
I think women are still not representedwhile in country music it's always been
a little slower in that area,and I'm not sure if it's just that
industry, like that part the genreof the industry. I don't know,

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but I've always noticed that that wasa little harder for a female to break
in country than it was for amale at the time. So, but
they're catching up to they are theyare, and I think I'm starting or
less. Yes, and the alternatethere are so many there's so many stories.
Yes, but in commercial country radiothere still is very much of a
pushback against planning women artists. Yeah. It's baffling to me because they do

(30:14):
sell and they sell out and theymake money and a lot of people want
to listen to them and buy andstream their music. I don't want to
say buy their music because that doesn'treally happen as much anymore, but stream,
download, Yeah, And so Ido see the trend, though it
is optimistic that there are change,you know, I got to keep always
putting the positive spin on things.But I do see a better trend in

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modern music now going forwards. Hopefullyit continues and we can get to a
point where even pay is the same, because I still know that we are
not even in the you know,in the general world, We're not at
that point yet where I think it'sstill like what's seventy eight cents on a
dollar or something. It's it's stillsomething very different. But that's a different
story, and I don't want toget all into that. I do want

(30:55):
to take a little bit of abreak because you know, we we do
have to pay our bills unfortunately,So I want to take a little bit
of a break. But I wantto get back to talk about your amazing
song, Joan, that you did, and your Philly connection, because we
do originate out of Philadelphia, andI want to talk a little bit about
that and maybe some other optimistic thingsand things to look forward to. So

(31:15):
yes, let's take a little bitof a break. I am talking with
the incredible author Catherine Esky Taylor,who came out with She's a Badass and
oh yes, and of course JoanOsborne. So take a little bit of
a break and we'll be right back. Tired of shopping for furniture and not
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(32:38):
if you would say Smith, allhis Orrie? What would you ask you?
Just one question? Yeah? Yeah? Dot is great? Yeah,

(32:59):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeahyeah yeah? What is God? Was
one of us just the snob byone of us just the stays? What

(33:22):
a mag guess way, Yes,we are back to the scene with Dorian
and I'm, of course Doreene Taylor, and I'm celebrating two bad asses of
music today on my show. Joiningme is veteran music journalist and author of
the new book She's a Badass Womenin Rock Shaping Feminism. And we just
heard the massive hit what If GodWas One of Us? Or just one

(33:45):
of Us as it is known,the nineteen ninety six Grammy nominated Record of
the Year by my other guest joiningus today, multi platinum singer songwriter Joan
Osborne and chapter eight in Catherine's book, Welcome back to the show, both
of you. Oh, Joan thatwhile our show is syndicated, I brought
it up before the break. Theywere across the country, but we tape

(34:06):
in Philadelphia and that song has enormousties to the Philadelphia area. So how
did it come to be? Now? I know you're in New York City,
you were up there? How didyou get involved with Eric Brazilian of
the Hooters and Rick shared off heproduced it? How did you get involved
with those guys? Well, atthe time I for met them, I

(34:27):
was I had been playing a lotof New York City and I had started
to expand more throughout the region.I was playing in DC. I was
playing Boston. I was playing inRochester, New York, Burlington, Vermont,
and I was playing in Philadelphia andanother member of the Hooters, a
guy named Rob Hyen, came toone of my shows in Philly and he

(34:49):
was really excited, and if youknow him, he's a very talkative guy.
And he came backstage after the showand was just talking a mile a
minute about this is so great,that's great. You've got to meet my
friend Richardoff and he's just got hisown imprint and Mercury Records and he's looking
to sign people and he's gonna loveyou. And so so it was really

(35:09):
sort of grew out of this,I guess regional following that I had already
built myself, and that's how Iwas able to sort of run into Rob
and for him to hear my musicawesome. Now, to tie it into
what we're talking about today, youcreated that studio album with pretty much all

(35:30):
men in the room, right,I mean it was probably predominantly men.
Do you feel your voice and creativevision was heard throughout that process? That's
an interesting question. I did walkinto that situation having a certain level of
confidence. You know, we talkedabout how in the larger culture in the

(35:53):
music industry, women don't always getthe kind of support that maybe male artists
do. But I had already sortof built this following by performing live,
and I had been doing it foryears, and I'd been standing in front
of audiences, you know, overand over and over again, and I
could see what it was and Iwas doing was impacting people, and that

(36:15):
it was working. And so Idid have a certain amount of confidence walking
into that situation. And I think, you know, I think that's one
of the things that I would adviseyounger artists and female artists or any artist,
is try to reach your audience onyour own. Don't look through these

(36:37):
gatekeepers so much. Don't, youknow, go looking around for a record
deal or a big you know,executive or producer, or for anyone to
give you permission to do what youdo and to be who you are.
Try to make that happen on yourown as much as you can, and
then you understand what your own worthis. And that's how I sort of
felt as I was going into thatsituation, working with these men who you

(37:00):
know, they respected me because theysaw that I was already doing it at
a certain level and our job altogetherwas to try to take it to another
higher place. And that you did, Yes, you did. I mean
that song unbelievable. To this day, I'm humming it like I was.
I was doing the clips and allnight it's that earworm. I was in
bed and I'm like, there itis. It's just playing all night in

(37:22):
my head. I'm looking at themusic video. It's playing in my brain.
I'm like it just it's It's gotevery component in that song. And
I got to tell you, whenI first heard it all those years ago,
I just thought it was brilliantly done. I just really thought the lyric
was really smart, and especially youknow, not all lyrics are really smart,
especially in pop music, and thisone really made you think. And

(37:43):
I said, I was always appreciativethat a song a lyric in mainstream music
wasn't just like, you know,not that there's not anything wrong with some
of the you know, the popmusic that's out there, but this had
a message, and this had thething you could ponder and actually discuss with
your friends and say, well,what if this happened, what would it
be like? And I always said, congratulations on such making an impact and

(38:04):
really putting your name on something that'sso special. Yeah, well, I
have to certainly give credit to EricBazilian, who wrote the song, and
in fact, he kind of hadthis experience where he woke up in the
middle of the night a song inhis head, ran down to make a
demo at his little home studio,and then brought it into the studio to

(38:27):
play for the rest of us thenext day. And he had it in
mind for this group called the CrashTest Dummies, and they have a singer
who has this very low sort ofdon't they do, yes, they do,
Oaly that guy, really low bearto voice. And so Eric had
made a demo singing it in thatstyle, and he was like, oh,

(38:49):
what I did, and I'm goingto send this crash Test Dummies or
what do you think of it?And it was Rich who said, no,
you're not going to send that tothe crash Test Dummy. You're going
to let jonesing that. And ittook me a bit of time to sort
of wrap my mind around how Iwas going to approach it, because I
don't have a voice anything like thatin Crash Chest Dummies. And I really

(39:10):
thought a lot about it, andI thought, this song is so simple.
It sounds like one of those questionsthat little kid will come up and
you know, to be on thesleeve and ask you, and that you
don't really know the answer for it, you know, and you it makes
you think about what your beliefs are. So I tried to sing it in
this very sort of innocent, almostchildlike style. Yes, and I it

(39:36):
was perfect. It really was.It was the right like secret sauce on
it. I mean, it reallywas. It was the right layer to
put on top. I don't knowif I would have I don't know if
it would have succeeded as much.I mean, it was a great song,
but it was your voice that itwas perfect for it. And you
know, it's like those things whatmakes one thing one thing and one thing
successful. It was the it wasthe perfect storm and it was all the

(39:57):
parts going together, and it's thisincredible that you were a part. We
did get a lot We did geta lot of We did get a lot
of response from people. You know, we got letters from church groups saying,
you know, we're discussing this withour youth organization, and this is
a great way to get people talkingabout it. I also had people,
you know, send me death threatsand pick up my concerts. Of course

(40:22):
they didn't like the song. Ithought it was last Feminis and yeah,
so it was really controversial in thatmoment. Yes, But isn't everything that's
good something that is controversial usually,or that people are talking about. It
just seems like, you know,you can do the same old, same
old, But when you get peopletalking and arguing about something or having a

(40:42):
discussion, hopefully having a discussion insteadof arguing, yeah, that makes it
special because that is me. That'swhat art is all about, and that's
just bravo to doing that. Sowith Catherine, I don't want to leave
you out because I asked the questionto Joan about, you know, doing
all this, and it was hervoice. Now you've written countless articles,
major publications, Billboard, Spin.Do you feel your voice and creative vision

(41:06):
was always heard and respected as youclimbed the ladder being a woman? Not
when I first started. No,when I started, I was actually in
high school, and so I thinkit was a combination of my gender plus
age. You know, I wassixteen years old and I probably looked twelve,
and it really did not inspire respectingpeople. But I do remember when

(41:31):
I got my first professional experience,like true, real professional experience for the
newspaper Creative Loafing in Atlanta, whereI'm from, and it's a really well
respected newspaper. And I remember gettingmy first assignments and being really proud that
I finally had worked my way upto getting there and getting the editor's attention,

(41:54):
who I'd hounded for six months beforehe gave me an assignment. I
mean, I really felt like I'dpaid my dues at that point, working
for years. And I had amale rock critic come up to me at
a club and say, do youeven write your own articles? Does the
editor write them for you? Oh? You know? And it just it

(42:15):
just crushed me because I thought,you know, I've worked so hard to
get here, and I've worked hardto be good at my craft, and
this is the response. I guessthat people don't even believe it's mine.
So yeah, that was a realdowner. How do you handle that?
How do you need something? Whatare you kind of laughing now? Because

(42:35):
it is funny, I mean,like the audacity of someone to say that
to someone is really But what doyou do in a circuit, like you
know, someone's listening now and they'resort of experiencing something similar because it's still
happening. As you know, youjust said you got comments, didn't.
We'd cover that in Glorious dynem andstuff. So how do you when someone
comes up and says something ignorant likethat? How do you handle it?

(42:55):
Now? Well, I mean,as you can see the way I'm handing
it now, it's just to bekind of laughing at it. I mean,
it's such a buffoonish way to behave, Like who does that? And
I just think that kind of person, I don't need to listen to their
he was obviously threatened by you.Yes, yeah, that's what my friend
said, because like when your littlekids and they're punching you and they're like

(43:17):
stabbing you with pencils, they're like, oh, because he likes you.
Yeah, don't listen to people whoare going to bring you. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, no, Iagree, And I just kept going.
I just kept going because I workedreally hard and I love doing what I
do and I just I wasn't goingto stop because of that's to bring people.
Mm hmmmmm. Yeah. No,I I agree now that it brings

(43:42):
us to a good point too,though, you know, what advice do
you give somebody, because now,Joan, I mean, you've gone through
it. What do you give youknow, what kind of advice do you
give a new artist who's coming outand still experiencing. Maybe they're going out
on stage and they're like show usyour blanks or you know, or throwing
bottles like I know Gina Shock wastalking about they were throwing bottles, spitting
on them, the go gos whilethey were on stage. I don't know

(44:05):
if it's that bad nowadays, butit probably still happens to some degree.
What would be your advice to someonewho's young and wants to give up?
What do you tell somebody? Whatdo they do? You know, if
you are really passionate and really singleminded about what you do, you're not
going to let something like that stopyou. You're going to understand it for

(44:27):
what it is. Ignorant. It'sI love this word buffoonish. Yeah,
that's great. These people are boons, And why would you give them the
power to determine what you're going todo in your life? You just don't.
You don't give them that power,and you maintain the power for yourself
and you try to you know,of course, we all have feelings,

(44:50):
and our feelings get bruised, butthen you get over and you continue to
do what you're going to do.And I mean, I think there have
always been women. You know,you look at somebody like Patti Smith,
or somebody like Chrissy Hind or somebodylike Joni Mitchell or you know, these
men are not going to let anysort of sexism in any way limit what

(45:12):
they do and just just continue todo your work. You know. That's
that's where real that's where the realchallenge is. That's where the real satisfaction
is, whether you become a megxedor not, is doing your work and
seeing yourself expand and feeling the connectionthat you make to an audience, and
feeling the impact that your work hasand your music has on even just one

(45:37):
person. That's the satisfaction. Yeah, Catherine, what would you give someone
in the journalism field who's kind ofrising through the ranks and got that same
kind of response you did, Like, do you write your own articles or
something you know, very put downish or buffoonery? What would you what
would you give a colleague? Well, I'm just gonna echo Janah on this
and just say don't let someone stopyou from doing what you love. I

(46:00):
mean when that guy said that tome, I was crushed for a little
while because I just thought I workedso hard on these articles, Sure,
how could someone say that? Butthen I thought, no, I love
doing this and I'm not going tolet that guy stop me from doing this,
because then he wins good. I'msure he would have loved nothing more
than to never see my byline inthe newspaper again. And so I guess

(46:22):
it also was a little bit ofit. I'm gonna show you I'm gonna
keep doing this. Use it tofuel your fire, yes, use the
whatever that is. Turn it aroundand use it to fuel your passion and
to keep going. I agree.I think you take it and you yeah,
use it as food almost. Andyou come back and you say,
oh, you think that's bad,wait to see what I do next week.
And that's how you get him back. That's how you get them back.

(46:44):
Uh huh. Well, I wantto take one little small break and
I don't want to come back,and I want to promote what you both
are doing. I want to talkabout the book a little bit more,
and then we're just gonna wrap everythingup. But I am talking with Katheryevsky
Taylor and of course Joan Osbourne andyou're listening to the Seama Duren and we'll
be right back. Hey, I'mDorian Taylor and I'm so proud to be
an advocate for Best Buddies International,the world's largest organization dedicated to ending the

(47:07):
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(47:29):
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For more information about Best Buddies International, to donate or to register to participate
in a Friendship Walk in a citynear you, visit Best Buddies Friendshipwalk dot
org. That's Best Buddies Friendshipwalk dotoorg. She's a bad all around,

(47:53):
she's a bad as, she's aOh yeah, we're throwing down and we

(48:14):
are back to the scene with Duran. I'm your host, Duran Taylor,
and I'm of course chatting all hourwith Catherine Esky Taylor, veteran music journalist
and author of the new book She'sa Badass Women in Rock, shaping Feminism,
and multi platinum selling singer songwriter JoanOsborne. I just thought that was
a fun little way to end theshow, you know, our little last
segment. I thought that was anice little clip. And you both are

(48:36):
badasses. Thank you so much forjust paving the way. And you're both
very very busy. I mean you'regoing. I want to I want to
touch on you, Joan. First. You you're also a very talented artist
as well, and you have anart exhibit Singing on Paper currently on display
City Winery in New York City,and people can purchase your work online or
in person. I love that youused COVID the time that you weren't able

(48:58):
to perform to do something still artisticand bring joy and art to people.
I congratulations on that. I mean, how's that going? How's how is
the exhibit going? Yeah? Imean it was. It was more sort
of like a therapeutic thing for mebecause I you know, I love to
sing and I love to perform,and I you know that that's something that

(49:19):
really feeds me. And when thatwas taken away from me during COVID.
I just felt like I needed somethingelse that where I could, you know,
exprest kind of things that get expressedon my former So so I was
able to kind of pick up apaintbrush and experiment and come up with a
way that I found to sort ofpaint what it feels like to sing yes,

(49:43):
Yes. And now you're back touring. Obviously you're back on the road.
You are going to do stops righthere where we originate from in Philadelphia,
Yes, Bethlehem, PA Music FastCafe on March third, and you're
also going to be in one ofour sister stations our area in Boston.
You're going to be a City WineryBoston on March tenth. And then there
are a whole bunch of other citiesthat you're going to be in. Dates
on your website Joan Osborne dot com. Anyone wants to go buy tickets,

(50:07):
check out the artwork, check outwhat you're doing, download music. Support
this incredible person who has really madesuch an impact on the music industry and
changing things and trailblazing for other womenartists. Thank you for that, Catherine.
Absolutely, there's a little delay therewell, I wanted to tell our
listeners too, you're a little clippyand our thing. But I wanted to
also say you did this from Mexicofor us. Thank you so much,

(50:30):
Joan for dialing in from Mexico.Yes, so we're really grateful to have
you and any Wi Fi connection thatyou possibly have. It's still great to
hear you. And but Catherine,I want to talk because we're all brought
together today because of your book,and I want to say that you're doing
book events across the country. We'vewrapped some up in Georgia, you did

(50:51):
it in California, Indiana. Butyou're going to be coming up March fifth
and Princeton, New Jersey at LabyrinthBooks. And you're going to be in
Narbirth, Pennsylvania, literally down theroad from where we actually were in Balakanwood.
We're right down the road from thatnear Philadelphia on March twenty first,
and I want to come out andI want to see you by the way,
and I'm going to say hi.And then you are in March twenty
third, You're in old Wick,New Jersey at Howling Bassett Books. So

(51:14):
you are everywhere. Now where caneveryone find that? I actually set at
Philadelphia dates. Where are you goingto be? At Headhouse Books beautiful So
Philadelphia twenty second and also in Hoebookin New Jersey on March ninth at Little
City Books. Wow, you areeven more busier? Yeah, that is
that the word more busier. Thatdoesn't sound right. You're a journalist and
you're probably like, oh, man, I got a headache with this girl.

(51:37):
But no, I think everyone shouldcome out. You're going to be
signing copies are you going to beYou're going to be doing discussions and talking
about parts of the book, Iwould assume to people, and yeah,
awesome. All of them will havesome kind of discussion. The Princeton one
on March fifth, I'm going tobe in discussion with Tom Bojor, who
wrote the New York Times best sellingbook Nothing But a Good Time, which

(51:57):
is about the hair metal scene inthe nine eighties and nineties. And that's
going to be interesting to kind ofcontrast the scene he talks about with the
things I talk about. And yeah, he's a great guy, So it's
gonna be a great conversation that one, and you know, the one in
Hoboken on March ninth, we're goingto have some artists performing cover songs of

(52:21):
some of the artists in the book. And Joan, I believe someone has
chosen your song, one of yoursongs cover. So yeah, that's gonna
be really cool. That is great. Well, I just want to thank
you both. Now, Catherine,where can people purchase your book? I
mean it's it's I mean just googleyou what, but you have a website,
Well, you can get it atAmazon. For people who don't want

(52:43):
to do the big store thing,you can go to bookshop dot org and
support independent booksellers. Although I willadd that the first run of this book
has sold out. Oh congratulations,thank you. So it's in a second
run. So there are some placesthat are saying it's back order. It's
it's not in stock. It's becausewe're printing more. It's a good problem
to have. Yeah, so frustratingbecause people say, I want to support

(53:07):
independent booksellers and they can't get itright now, but they will within the
next week. So don't give up. Oh yes, keep checking. It's
worth it. It's worth it.And you can hear a lot about what
we discuss, a lot of whatwe didn't get to discuss, and just
hear about the stories of these amazingtrailblazers who really just paved the way to
make things better for all of us. And I want to say that is

(53:29):
all of us. So thank youso much ladies for joining me today.
And you guys are badasses, reallyare. Thank you so much, having
oh my pleasure and good luck oneverything. Oh, thank you and enjoying
Mexico. Joan, oh, Iwill all right, take care all right,
bye bye, thanks bye bye.Thank you to my guest today Catherine

(53:50):
Yeske Taylor and of course Joan Osborne. And thank you again for tuning into
the Scene with Doreen. I'm hereevery week across the country bringing you the
best interviews from the entertainment world,world and beyond. Get connected with me
on social media and on our officialwebsite, the Scene with Doreen dot com,
and make sure to tune in nextweek so you can find out what's
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(54:58):
com, slashet dability, he wasradio. I'm Brian Shook. Former President
Trump wants the Supreme Court to extendthe delay in his federal election interference case,
claiming that he has immunity. He'scurrently appealing a ruling from the d
C. Circuit Court that he doesn'thave immunity from the charges. Trump believes

(55:20):
he can't be charged because he wasstill president when he allegedly sought to overturn
the results of the twenty twenty election. Police in Houston say the shooter at
Joel Ostein's megachurch had an anti Semiticbackground and a sticker that read Palestine was
attached to the butt of her rifle. Early reports say shooter Genes c Moreno
was transgender, but police for noware only saying she identified as female but

(55:45):
used male and female names. PoliceCommander Chris Hassig says there was a fight
involving her ex husband and his family, and some of them are Jewish,
so we believe that that might possiblybe where all of the stems from.
President Biden says he's worked with usallies in the Middle East to secure the
release of hostages held by Hamas.The President told reporters a deal between Israel

(56:07):
and Hamas is in the works fora six week pause in fighting. Biden
also warned of the dire humanitarian situationin the Gaza Strip, noting that too
many of the twenty seven thousand Palestinianskilled in the conflict have been innocent civilians
and children. Uber Lyft and doorDash drivers are striking across the US on

(56:27):
Valentine's Day. Drivers group said Mondaythey're seeking fair pay. This is the
first strike call since Uber and Lyftwent public in twenty nineteen. Groups said
drivers are going to picket outside airportsand Uber offices. The Justice for App
Workers Coalition, which represents about onehundred thirty thousand drivers, said drivers wouldn't
provide rides to and from airports betweeneleven am and one pm in ten cities.

(56:50):
I'm Lisa Tailor. A fast movingstorm has the Northeast on high alert.
You're listening to the latest from NBCNews Radio e Digits. Lock them
in for more information. Recreation andGuaranteed fun CACAA ten fifty AM. An

(57:13):
elderly man who lived on a remotepeninsula in Alaska, has become the first
known patient to die from alaskapox.The virus, discovered in twenty fifteen by
scientists in Fairbanks, is thought tospread from rodents to humans, but Alaskan
authorities believe the victim contracted the diseaseafter being scratched by a stray cat.
A new effort is underway for aColorado gun band. Democratic state Representative Meg

(57:37):
Prolich, one of the bill's cosponsors, says the bill filed last week,
would make it illegal to be armedat public parks, community centers,
hospitals, bars, universities, churches, voting centers, and twelve other sensitive
spaces. The basic concept is thatpeople deserve to be safe in spaces in

(57:59):
our community. Lawmakers behind the pushcall it common sense, saying it needs
to be clear where it's okay tohave a gun and where it's not.
President Biden is now on TikTok.Michael Cassner reports his first post on the
popular social media app showed him athome watching the Super Bowl, along with
the caption LOL, hey guys,game or halftime show game Jason Kelcey or

(58:21):
Travis Kelcei Mama Cous Conversation as GreatChalk Tips. Many Republican lawmakers have taken
aim at the app and its parentcompany By Dance over possible connections to the
Chinese government. GOP presidential candidate NikkiHaley has called for TikTok to be banned
by the US government. The accountis run by Team Biden Harris under the
account named Biden HQ and lest weforget it's an election year, Trumper Biden

(58:45):
you kidding. I'm Michael Casner.The Bachelor franchise is expanding again following the
success of last falls The Golden Bachelor, which led to Jerry Turner and Teresa
Nist tying the knot on live TV. D ABC has revealed plans for The
Golden Bachelorette. The news was announcedduring the Television Critics Association's Winter press Tour

(59:07):
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